Simon Sinek: Why FRIENDSHIP Is The Key To Your Abundance & Success

Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! I am so excited to welcome back Simon Sinek who, renowned for his groundbreaking "Start With WHY" concept, reveals how modern capitalism has sacrificed ethics for profit in our increasingly binary world. He shares a raw moment about continuing a business relationship with someone his gut warned him against, costing him years of regret. Simon explains why we crave connection yet sacrifice friendships for success, and breaks down how our biology drives us to serve others—not just chase achievements. His practical conflict resolution strategies offer a refreshing alternative to our culture of comparison, showing how leaders can rebuild trust by protecting their people rather than their bonuses. Simon Sinek’s Optimism CompanySimon’s podcast A Bit of OptimismSimon’s book Start with Why 15th Anniversary Edition: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take ActionSimon’s book Leaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don'tSimon’s book The Infinite GameIn this episode you will learn:Why competition drives innovation but succeeding at others' expense destroys societyHow modern capitalism broke when companies prioritized shareholders over customers and employeesThe biological reason service to others delivers more lasting happiness than personal achievementA proven conflict resolution method: respond to emotions with emotions, facts with factsWhy lasting success comes from articulating a vision that extends beyond your lifetimeFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1762For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Muniba Mazari – greatness.lnk.to/1684SCMark Manson – greatness.lnk.to/1750SCMel Robbins – greatness.lnk.to/1761SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  If you're feeling any frustration, any sadness, any overwhelm, depression, if you're feeling like just, ah, I'm not catching the break, I'm getting sick all the time. I'm not creating the financial opportunities I want. I feel like people are using and abusing me. If this is part of your narrative right now and your reality, then I want you to know that in today's episode, we are diving into a topic on how to really create more fulfillment and happiness in your life. I'm bringing on Simon Sinek today, who's one of today's most influential thought leaders, and we're talking about perspective and how obviously comparison is the thief of joy. And social media creates a lot of comparison, feeling like we're not enough,

• 0:42Lewis Howes?

  but how lasting happiness comes from contribution rather than achievement, and why friendship might be the most valuable asset that we're sacrificing in our pursuit of success. And let me tell you something, I have accomplished a lot in my life and I'm grateful for my accomplishments. But for part of this time, in my teens and my twenties, when I was accomplishing, I was not happy because I was pursuing something to try to be seen, to try to be accepted, to try to fulfill some wounds and mend something from my past. It never felt good. It felt momentarily like exciting, but at the end of the day, I went back into sadness and suffering and kind of frustration and overwhelm and all that stuff.

• 1:26Lewis Howes?

  And so we need to be thinking about how can we truly create lasting happiness, lasting joy? And that comes from contribution rather than achievement. Now, let me say this, I love accomplishments. I love achievements. It's fun for me. You know, my new book just came out, Make Money Easy, and it hit the New York Times Bestseller List. And I was like, excited about it. I was like, that's awesome, because we put a lot of work into putting it out there and creating the work. And I like accomplishing things. It's a nice validation. But here's the thing, I have gotten to the place where, sure, maybe I would have been let down had I not accomplished the goal I set out to. But the thing that I'm focused on more is how can I contribute to as many people as possible in the pursuit of the goal, in the pursuit of the dream?

• 2:10Lewis Howes?

  And if you can match contribution with the collective effort of the pursuit of goals, dreams and accomplishments.

• 2:20Lewis Howes?

  And if you get both, then amazing. But if you don't get the goal, if you don't get the dream, if it doesn't happen, the thing you really want. If you don't make the certain amount of money that you want that year, whatever it is. But you're making a difference to a few people. You're contributing to someone's life. That's way more meaningful than accomplishment and feeling like it's not enough. Accomplishment and success and feeling like you don't really have deep, meaningful relationships. So this is something we're going to be diving into and so much more. And I hope that this is coming to you at the exact right time in your life. And if it is, feel free to let me know and share this with one or two friends that you think would benefit from this conversation with myself and Simon Sinek.

• 3:05Lewis Howes?

  And make sure to follow over on Apple Podcast, over on Spotify, and leave us a review on one of those platforms as well with your biggest takeaway or your biggest aha moment. I love reading your reviews and all of your feedback over there. And I'm very excited about today's guest. So let's go ahead and dive in with Simon Sinek. It seems like the biggest sacrifice most humans are making today is a sacrifice of not having friends. For success, for career, for greatness, for whatever it is, people pursuing something so passionately. For writing their books, for creating their business, whatever it might be. It's like, well, I'm going to commit for this decade or two decades to being the best I can be.

• 3:44Simon Sinek?

  Yep. And the sacrifice of friends.

• 3:46Lewis Howes?

  And at the sacrifice of friends.

• 3:48Simon Sinek?

  All right, well, that one's different because that not a single person, when, when they achieve the thing that they achieve, will ever, ever, ever say that was worth it. None, zero. I've talked to so many people who decided grades, career, money. I don't need friends. I just need people who can help me achieve my goals. And the result is loneliness.

• 4:14Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 4:14Simon Sinek?

  I mean, look at, you know, this as an athlete, right? Look at Olympic, look at Olympians, right? Especially individual sports, individual athletes, team sports. They don't really, it's not really the same thing. Which is they have a dream when they're fairly young.

• 4:31Simon Sinek?

  And their dream is to, and you know how they put it, win the Olympics.

• 4:33Lewis Howes?

  Nobody wins the Olympics.

• 4:35Simon Sinek?

  Right? That's how they, I'm gonna win the Olympics, right? And every relationship they have is, can you help me? Are you gonna help me? And individual athletes, tennis players, I mean, they're very similar. Like, every relationship they have is, are you gonna benefit my dream? And if not, then I have no space for you. And they don't really have friendships. They have transactional relationships, coaches, supporters.

• 4:57Lewis Howes?

  Trainers.

• 4:58Simon Sinek?

  Trainers.

• 4:58Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 4:59Simon Sinek?

  You know, a supportive parent, you know? And some of them will get to the Olympics and some of them might even medal.

• 5:07Simon Sinek?

  And when it's time to retire, what they achieve is loneliness. Michael Phelps becomes the most medaled Olympian of all in history. What's the immediate result?

• 5:18Lewis Howes?

  Depression.

• 5:19Simon Sinek?

  Depression. Andre Agassi becomes the most celebrated tennis player of all time. What's the immediate result? Loneliness, depression. And none of them will look back and say, oh, my God, I think that was worth it. The, the, the, the thing you're celebrated for is fleeting. You'll be forgotten, you'll be replaced, someone else.

• 5:37Lewis Howes?

  There'll be a new up and coming.

• 5:39Simon Sinek?

  You know, I, I was walking down Avenue of the Stars here in, here in California, here in Los Angeles. And I was reading the names of some of these movie stars. I'd never heard of them.

• 5:50Lewis Howes?

  Maybe there's two or three of like.

• 5:51Simon Sinek?

  Forty years ago, thirty years ago, whatever they were, right? Forty, fifty years ago, whatever they were, these were the Ryan Reynolds of the day.

• 6:00Simon Sinek?

  I had never heard of any of them. Steven Spielberg, there's some director, no, I'd never heard of him. Right? These were the most famous people of their time. And I had no clue who they were. And every single celebrity, my niece doesn't know who Arnold Schwarzenegger is.

• 6:15Simon Sinek?

  Why should she?

• 6:16Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:17Simon Sinek?

  Right? And the only reason my nephew knows who he is is because I made him watch Terminator. And, uh, uh, and so I think we forget that fame is fleeting.

• 6:32Simon Sinek?

  And we will all be replaced by somebody else who will have the job after us. You and I both know this, you know, like, I'm fully aware that.

• 6:41Simon Sinek?

  I, you know, my books are out there, my ideas are out there and somebody else will have an idea and it'll replace my idea, just like I replace somebody else's. This is all borrowed time.

• 6:50Lewis Howes?

  Then why do so many people want to be rich and famous? What is missing within them? That they want success, fame, or wealth, or to be known so badly?

• 7:00Simon Sinek?

  Well, I think we've over indexed on that, you know, uh, uh, we can't ignore, we can't ignore social media. We cannot ignore, you know, prior to social media, you know, only a small percentage of people listening to this will know what I'm talking about. We used to watch lifestyles of the rich and famous with Robin Lee.

• 7:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:21Simon Sinek?

  You know, champagne dreams and what is it?

• 7:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:23Simon Sinek?

  Caviar dreams and champagne.

• 7:25Lewis Howes?

  MTV Cribs was like my favorite.

• 7:27Simon Sinek?

  And we, you know, we watch television of rich and famous people. And it was, I mean, it's amazing. Like we, we, it is, there is an aspirational nature to it. And I'm sure back in the day, we looked at the carriages that went by the princes and, you know, jukes and went, oh, one day, you know? I'm sure it's aspirational. And I, and I think in healthy doses, there's nothing wrong with it.

• 7:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:50Simon Sinek?

  You know, this is the magical thing about a lottery, you know, for $1, you can have a dream for an entire week, right? You spend $1 and you are already dreaming about how you're going to spend the money. And then you don't win, of course, and you're not upset about it. It's not like you spent the money already. It's just a dream. You just paid for the dream. And it's, you know, if you're going to spend a dollar, it's different than being addicted to the lottery. That's different. That's like betting the farm, hoping like that that's your like actual retirement plan. Like that's, that's unhealthy. That's different. But if you spend a dollar every now and then, a couple bucks every now and then, just for the fantasy, I think it's very healthy. I think it's fun.

• 8:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:28Simon Sinek?

  Right? And it's to your point about intention. But I think what, what has happened in our society is fame and fortune used to come as a result of doing something else. It was the unintended byproduct. Like I discovered, you know, Radio, radiation. Oh, Marie Curie, you're so famous, right? Or I did this amazing painting. Oh, Picasso, you're so famous, so rich, right? That fame and fortune came as a result of plying a trade or contributing to something bigger than yourself. And now fame and fortune are the currency. Like, people crave fame and fortune without doing anything. And they're looking for a hack.

• 9:12Simon Sinek?

  They're looking for a trick to game the system, to get the fame and the fortune without actually contributing to the lives of others in any shape or form.

• 9:19Lewis Howes?

  What's the price people pay who get famous without contribution beyond fame?

• 9:24Simon Sinek?

  Loneliness, dissatisfaction. Uh, I recently spoke to Vivek Murthy, who's the Surgeon General of the United States. And he was an A-type personality kid who was driven by grades. I'm gonna get As, I'm gonna get As, I'm gonna perform, I'm gonna perform at the sacrifice of friends, just like what we talked about, right? School is number one. And at the age of 17, I don't remember the circumstances, but he had to do some sort of, like, do-good program. Maybe school required it. Maybe he needed to do it for his college application. Who knows, right? I'm sure it was not out of altruism. And he set up sort of an AIDS education,

• 10:06Simon Sinek?

  peer-to-peer AIDS education program in India, right? And he said it was the most powerful thing he ever felt. He'd never felt anything like it.

• 10:12Lewis Howes?

  Really? Why?

• 10:14Simon Sinek?

  The idea of contributing to the lives of others. Service, service. And he spent years trying to recreate that feeling, not knowing how to get that feeling again. And no amount of commercial success, grade success. You know, he went to medical school, getting the best residency. Like, none of the traditional trappings gave him the feeling that he had when he got to give something to somebody else.

• 10:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 10:41Simon Sinek?

  And I think we forget that we are a legacy animal in a, in a modern world. Like, we are a very outdated animal. This machine is thousands, tens of thousands of years old, and it's had no

• 10:56Lewis Howes?

  Upgrades.

• 10:57Simon Sinek?

  No, no OS upgrades. Ever, ever, right? And yet, the world is super modern and our, and our systems are really archaic and antique and old fashioned. And so you have to understand the way the human being is designed is we're designed to look after each other, you know? Like, everybody talks about dopamine, you know, the dopamine hit. Well, dopamine is in your system for a simple reason. Okay, if we go back to caveman times, it's to make sure that you eat and to make sure that you find shelter, right? So, uh, you see the apple tree in the distance, you get a little shot of dopamine, it says, that's the thing you want, go get it.

• 11:41Simon Sinek?

  And as you get closer to the thing you want, you measure the steps and the progress. And in this case, the tree gets a little bigger because you're getting a little closer. It gets another shot of dopamine, it says, keep going, keep going, feels so good. And then finally, you get, you kill the animal, you, you, you get to the berry tree, whatever it is, you catch the fish, you're like, yes, right? Win the game. Yes. You know, like when you're training and you can see, you can, you, you want that, you want that win and you get closer and closer and closer. And then you win, you get the fish, you get the thing, you get the thing you wanted. Then the feeling goes away. Like, do you remember that incredible feeling you had when you won that tournament? Hundred percent. Okay. Yeah. That feeling is gone. Gone. That feeling is gone. That feeling that you had that day.

• 12:26Simon Sinek?

  It's a memory. Gone. It's a memory. You can recall, but you, the feeling is gone and on purpose. Dopamine doesn't survive because dopamine wants you to keep going to get the things you want, right? So dopamine is the, the, the feeling you get when you achieve the thing you want to achieve or find the thing you're looking for. That's why love at first sight is not a thing. So you know, it's like, oh, we went on our first date and I, I'm telling you it was love. I'm like, no, it's dopamine. Cause you're like, you were dreamed of a person, you projected that dream on this person. You're like, you are the one. No, no, no, no, no, no, just, just a vision. So it's the wrong feeling. That's, it's just dopamine.

• 13:02Simon Sinek?

  Endorphins, endorphins don't really have a role in survival anymore. They used to be, endorphins are, they're a chemical that mask physical pain. So when you're out hiking, looking for food. Or you kill the leopard. Now you need to carry it back. And yeah. And your muscles hurt and it's heavy. Well, endorphins keep you going and they literally mask physical pain. That's what they do. It's a survival thing. We have no survival need for endorphins anymore. We just go to the supermarket.

• 13:35Simon Sinek?

  But everybody who's done exercise knows what an endorphin rush is. And it feels amazing and you feel like you can keep running forever. And this is the best. Oh my God, this is the best. And then a few hours later, you're in pain. Hmm. The pain comes just later. Yes. So the difference is, but then you have, but endorphins and dopamine are selfish. You don't need anybody's help to get them. Set your goals, achieve your goals, go for a run, do heavy exercise. You don't need anybody's help. They're antisocial or unsocial. Right? So when we pursue dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, we don't actually need anybody. That's why we have oxytocin and serotonin. That's where you need someone else. Those are, those are pro-social. When they, they fire for good reasons and bad reasons in this modern day and age. Sure. But when they're done for the right reasons, it's pro-social.

• 14:20Simon Sinek?

  So when you go see your son or daughter graduate. Your son and daughter are walking across the stage, receiving their diploma. Pouring with serotonin. Serotonin is the feeling of accomplishment. It's the feeling of pride. Right? And they're walking across the stage with their chest out. I did this and it's amazing. Right? But their parents, sitting in the audience, are having the same burst of serotonin, feeling equally as proud. That's my kid. And that serotonin, it's, it's, you get the reward for coaching somebody, parenting somebody, supporting somebody, helping somebody. Watching them achieve and sharing in their achievement. Right? It's our achievement. And that's why people give thank you speeches.

• 15:04Simon Sinek?

  I couldn't have done this without God, my parents, my coaches, my. It's, they're sharing, they're sharing. Recognition that I can't achieve alone. And then oxytocin, the magical one, which is unicorns and rainbows, mushy mushy, love, love. Right? And oxytocin comes from many, many reasons and you can get it many ways. Physical touch gives you oxytocin. But doing something for someone with no expectation of anything in return gives you oxytocin. An act of kindness. And that's what that guy, you, the surgeon general. That's what he did, the surgeon general. He does something nice for somebody else with no expectation of anything in return. And he felt good. He felt incredibly good. And the best thing about oxytocin is when you have it in your body,

• 15:47Simon Sinek?

  all it does, it makes you want to be nicer. It's it's mother nature's way of trying to get us to look after each other. And so when people don't serve, when they don't give to others, they might be consumed with dopamine, which is exciting. The problem is dopamine is addictive because you only feel good in the moment of the achievement.

• 16:05Lewis Howes?

  Then you keep meaning it.

• 16:06Simon Sinek?

  Which is why the drug, you only feel good when the drug is in your in your system. And then when it's not in your system, you got to get it. Same with dopamine. Got to keep it. I got to keep moving the goalpost. Okay, I'll feel good when I hit this goalpost. Nope, move the goalpost. I feel good if I make my second million, my third million, my fourth million, this many followers, that many followers, this many hits, that many hits, this many likes. Nope, you'll feel good for a second and it'll pass and you'll have to move the goalpost again. And the thing that I've learned is you should pursue something. You should have some sort of ambition and I don't care what it is. You define your life, however you want to define it. I want to have a family. I want to start my own business, right? And once you've got there, once you've reached your goalpost,

• 16:51Simon Sinek?

  you have to say to yourself, I've won. I'm not going to move the goalposts anymore because if I keep moving the goalposts, I'm never going to be satisfied.

• 17:02Lewis Howes?

  Then what do you do for the rest of your life? If you win the goal early?

• 17:05Simon Sinek?

  No, it's nothing to do with the goal early. It's it's now you get to you've got the thing that you wanted. And now you could get to design a life that you want irrespective. You don't have to pursue winning anymore. The win has happened. You can look back at the goalpost and be like, I did the main thing I wanted. I did it. So whether it's whether it's the Olympics or starting a family or starting a business, whether it succeeds or fails. Right? I did it. And now I'm going to design a life, you know, that I want to live beyond. And it's, it's, it's relative to however anybody else wants to define the win. Right. Do you feel like you've gotten the win for yourself?

• 17:47Simon Sinek?

  I've, I've had to learn, it was, is a lesson that I learned this year. And it's a friend of mine who said it to me. Cause you know, it was, it was Teddy Roosevelt who said, comparison is the thief of joy. And I love the way he put that, the thief of joy. It steals joy. If you keep comparing yourself to other people and what they've achieved, that act of comparison literally will steal joy from you. You will never be satisfied with what you have because you will always find somebody who's richer, better looking, got a nicer house, a net, better car, a better looking girlfriend or boyfriend, better vacations, you know, whatever it is, a hundred percent of the time, a hundred percent of the time.

• 18:28Simon Sinek?

  And you, and the metrics are completely, like if you and I started comparing our metrics to each other. Right? If I looked at your podcast, audience views, I'd be like, I'm a failure. Lewis is, he like closed me out of the water. I'm a failure. But if I change the metric to LinkedIn followers, who's your daddy? I got you crushing it. I'm crushing you, right? Oh, but let's make it book sales or let's make it. Intellect. Intellect, household income. Yeah, whatever. And like, I can feel depressed or I can feel elated just by simply changing where I'm looking. That's exhausting, right? And so I think what ends up happening is we focus on the one that is competitive. Well, I'm going to get more followers than Lewis.

• 19:11Simon Sinek?

  I'll show him and I go ahead. I'm like Yahtzee. But if I just look over here, I'm a loser again. And I think that's what I, that's what I mean by winning, right? Which is, which is, um, I kept changing what I was looking at. I would be, I'm like, I'm doing great. And then I'd change what I'm looking at or change who I'm looking at. I was like, oh, you know? And it was, it was a friend of mine who said to me, Simon, you've won. Stop it.

• 19:39Simon Sinek?

  Stop it. Like you won.

• 19:41Lewis Howes?

  That's something you learned this year.

• 19:42Simon Sinek?

  Just this year.

• 19:43Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 19:43Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 19:44Lewis Howes?

  And how old are you now?

• 19:45Simon Sinek?

  Fifty one.

• 19:46Lewis Howes?

  Fifty one?

• 19:46Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 19:48Lewis Howes?

  So you feel like?

• 19:48Simon Sinek?

  You look older than me.

• 19:49Lewis Howes?

  You look great, by the way. That's the first thing I said, man. You got the fitted shirt.

• 19:52Simon Sinek?

  It's just a shirt. It's a well cut shirt.

• 19:55Lewis Howes?

  So do you feel like in the last?

• 19:56Simon Sinek?

  I don't know.

• 19:58Lewis Howes?

  Three decades since you've been in kind of the, you know, school, working world, business world, that you've always been jumping from comparison to comparison versus?

• 20:07Simon Sinek?

  I think we all go through phases. Uh, I think, I think there are times where I make no comparisons and I'm very satisfied. And there are times, for whatever reason, bad night's sleep, feeling a little insecure.

• 20:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:19Simon Sinek?

  It sneaks in.

• 20:20Lewis Howes?

  And ah, why is this person this and this?

• 20:21Simon Sinek?

  It sneaks in. It sneaks in.

• 20:23Lewis Howes?

  I'm a smart guy. I should have this. Why can't I create this? Or I've been working for so long. Why isn't it here yet?

• 20:28Simon Sinek?

  It sneaks in. Yeah, I think it's unavoidable. And that's why this, I don't, I don't actually believe in winning or losing. I mean, you know that about.

• 20:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:35Simon Sinek?

  I think it's a, it's a rhetorical trick. It's a rhetorical trick. It's another, it's another way of saying, just be grateful. You, you, you're fine.

• 20:46Lewis Howes?

  So if you feel like, I mean, I guess, so your friend told you this year, listen, you've already won.

• 20:50Simon Sinek?

  Yeah. And again, it's a rhetorical trick.

• 20:52Lewis Howes?

  Which you don't care about winning or losing, but okay, you already created what you wanted to do.

• 20:56Simon Sinek?

  Like, I set out, I set out to contribute to the world. And, and I made strategic decisions that my contribution would be bigger than me.

• 21:09Lewis Howes?

  And it has been big.

• 21:10Simon Sinek?

  So for example, uh, people who come up with ideas, they put a little TM on whatever they call their idea. Always. On their website.

• 21:23Lewis Howes?

  Trademark, yeah.

• 21:23Simon Sinek?

  A little trademark, which basically means, don't touch, this is mine, mine. I want everybody to know it's mine.

• 21:30Lewis Howes?

  I own this idea.

• 21:31Simon Sinek?

  I own this idea. It's my IP. Everybody knows what IP is now, right? Uh, and, um, I never did that. You'll never see a TM on the term golden circle. You never see a TM on the concept of why. And you'll never see a TM on the physical drawing of the golden circle. Do I technically own all of those intellectual properties? Of course, right? Usage, you own it just with usage. But I never put a TM in it because I cared more that people used the idea than knew where it came from. And people do use the idea and not know where it comes from. And I don't pursue anybody who uses it.

• 22:09Lewis Howes?

  Without crediting you.

• 22:10Simon Sinek?

  Without crediting, I don't care. Because credit wasn't the thing I was in pursuit of. It was impact that I was in pursuit of. So I made strategic choices to help drive impact rather than to help drive credit.

• 22:22Lewis Howes?

  If someone cares more about getting the credit for their work or their ideas versus making an impact, what is at stake for them if they care more about credit over impact?

• 22:33Simon Sinek?

  I don't judge anybody's choices for their own lives. And as we said before, there's always a cost. The question is, the cost worth it to you? So for me, the cost came in, you know, I probably could have made more money. I probably could have, who knows what, right? And that wasn't, that was fine. That was, for me, that was a worthwhile cost, you know? Because I was driven more by impact.

• 23:05Lewis Howes?

  Yes. Was there any price you've paid that, looking back?

• 23:10Simon Sinek?

  Wasn't worth it?

• 23:10Lewis Howes?

  You're like, hmm, was that really worth it for that many years or this much time or this much stress thinking about this one thing?

• 23:16Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, so I guess the question is, does Jimmy regrets? Yes, the simple answer is I do. I don't have regrets for mistakes. I have regrets for repeating mistakes.

• 23:27Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, what was the biggest mistake you repeated?

• 23:30Simon Sinek?

  One of the biggest mistakes is I trusted somebody I shouldn't have trusted.

• 23:35Simon Sinek?

  Because they knew more than I did. And I doubted my gut and said, well, they've got more experience than me. I could trust them. And then I tried to fire them. And they talked me out of it. And then I continued to do business with this person who continued to screw me over and over again.

• 23:50Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 23:50Simon Sinek?

  And there he is a taker. He's an astonishing taker. And

• 23:58Lewis Howes?

  How long was that going on for?

• 24:00Simon Sinek?

  A long time.

• 24:01Lewis Howes?

  Years, decades?

• 24:03Simon Sinek?

  Years, years. Years.

• 24:05Lewis Howes?

  So you regret not changing course?

• 24:08Simon Sinek?

  I should have trusted my gut the first time. And ended the the relationship.

• 24:13Lewis Howes?

  You're known for your brilliance, your intellect, your idea. Critical idea generation, solving problems like this is one of the main things you're known for. Like you are the modern intellect that people go to to pay a ton of money to help them solve problems, to speak and influence people and democracy capitalists and versus communism. But how do we make things happen in the world better? Like this is who you are.

• 24:38Simon Sinek?

  I know. Silly, isn't it?

• 24:40Lewis Howes?

  It's not silly. But I'm just curious, what do you think?

• 24:45Lewis Howes?

  Was something that you lacked for your own self to be able to see the situation in front of you in order to make a better decision for yourself?

• 24:54Simon Sinek?

  In that particular case?

• 24:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:55Simon Sinek?

  Self doubt. Self doubt. Uh, nothing short of

• 25:03Simon Sinek?

  I'm not good at that. That person is experienced. I should trust them. Other people said I should trust them. I don't trust them, but I should trust them. So I'm gonna trust them because everybody said I should trust them, even though my guts don't trust them. And and when I came to the realization like this person is not trustworthy, I'm gonna fire them and I don't want them helping me anymore. And I tried to and they talked me out of it.

• 25:26Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 25:26Simon Sinek?

  I wasn't smart enough on how to change a contract.

• 25:30Lewis Howes?

  Is it smart? Is it about being, because this is the thing, you're extremely smart.

• 25:33Simon Sinek?

  But I have a type of smarts.

• 25:35Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:35Simon Sinek?

  You have a type of I don't have all smarts.

• 25:37Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 25:37Simon Sinek?

  I have some, some smarts.

• 25:38Lewis Howes?

  What is the skill needed for you to reach a new level of intelligence, let's say, so that you don't repeat these things in the future?

• 25:48Simon Sinek?

  So, so the, the, I think the it's a great, it's a great framing. The

• 25:56Simon Sinek?

  It was the, what I should have done, I was afraid of setting myself. I was afraid of not having that kind of support. I was afraid of not knowing what to do without this person. I was afraid that I wasn't smart enough or didn't know how to navigate this industry without this person that's by my side. And what I should have done is just, it's like, it's like, it's like when you're sitting on the couch and you're overweight and all you do is watch TV. And eat. And eating, and eating ice cream for every meal. At some point you go, I gotta get into shape. And you make the decision to get into shape.

• 26:39Simon Sinek?

  And the thing you didn't expect is how much it hurts. Painful. How much it hurts to start getting into shape. Once you start, it gets easier. But to start to get into shape really hurts. And I think I sat on that couch fearing the pain of the, of getting extracted from this. And if I had to do it all over again, I would put myself in the pain and I would go ask somebody else for help.

• 27:06Lewis Howes?

  Something you said earlier on is that you love ideas and people with ideas that make your head hurt.

• 27:13Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, true.

• 27:15Lewis Howes?

  What makes your heart hurt?

• 27:17Simon Sinek?

  I think this opens up a whole can of worms that my ex-girlfriend would say is the problem. I'm too, I'm too in my head. I think you just solved all the problems. Um, what makes my heart hurt?

• 27:32Lewis Howes?

  Or do you allow things, do you allow your heart to hurt?

• 27:35Simon Sinek?

  Of course. I hate, I don't like bullies. Hmm. Um, I was never bullied as a kid, so it's not like.

• 27:44Lewis Howes?

  You're standing up.

• 27:45Simon Sinek?

  It's not, it's not some childhood thing. I just don't like it when the strong pick on the weak. Um, that doesn't mean they have to help them, but they don't have to pick on them. You know, and like I've been in meetings where somebody's being a bully and I know, I know what it is. They're insecure, they're compensating, they were bullied themselves. You're supposed to show some empathy. I can't, I like really upsets me. Yeah. I'd be like, why don't we let somebody else talk now, Steve, you know? All right. Thank you, Julie. I think Louis is trying to say something, you know? I kind of help myself. You, you care about fairness. I, I care about fairness. No, no.

• 28:29Simon Sinek?

  I think it's an ADHD thing. Somebody told me that ADHD kids have an over exaggerated sense of fairness. Interesting. Yeah. Who knows?

• 28:37Lewis Howes?

  So that's something that makes your heart hurt?

• 28:39Simon Sinek?

  I, I mean, heart hurt.

• 28:41Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel connected to your heart a lot?

• 28:43Simon Sinek?

  I probably could work on that.

• 28:45Lewis Howes?

  It's not about could or should or right or wrong. I'm just curious.

• 28:48Simon Sinek?

  Better than I was. I think there's room for improvement.

• 28:51Lewis Howes?

  Sure. What do you think is possible for you, Simon, if you were able to trust your heart more rather than your head?

• 29:00Simon Sinek?

  I trust my gut. I mean, with the one exception that I'm telling you about, I'm pretty good at trusting my gut.

• 29:05Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 29:06Simon Sinek?

  Um, and it might take me a couple of iterations to be able to articulate it or figure out how to say it to other people. But I'm pretty good at trusting my gut. Um, it's not always right, but you know,

• 29:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:15Simon Sinek?

  It's done me okay. And I think a lot of, a lot of people who we look to for guidance will offer very similar advice. Trust your gut, you know? And I think we have to understand what gut is. Gut is the, uh, it's, it's your limbic brain. It's not actually your stomach. It's where all your values exist. It's where your beliefs exist. And the limbic brain controls all of our feelings. It controls all of our behavior, but it doesn't control language, which is why it's hard to put our feelings into words. Right? It's why we use analogies and metaphors all the time. It's, you know, it's hard to express anger. It's hard to express love. It's hard to express our feelings. It's hard to express frustration.

• 30:00Simon Sinek?

  Right? And so we use, we use analogies and metaphors, or sometimes we just say stupid things. Or we use, or we use, you know?

• 30:11Simon Sinek?

  Banal tropes. We send memes to each other because somebody else has said it better. You know, we send, we send quotes that we saw online because this person perfectly captures what I've been trying to tell you.

• 30:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 30:21Simon Sinek?

  Right? So that's what we do. And so to have a, I think you should, you, before you can trust your gut, you have to have a clear sense of what your values are. You have to have a clear sense of what you believe in.

• 30:37Simon Sinek?

  Because otherwise, I'm not sure your gut is a good compass.

• 30:41Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, it's so interesting you're saying this because we're going back to something else you talked about, which is the skill of conflict resolution.

• 30:47Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 30:48Lewis Howes?

  Most people haven't been taught the skills of conflict resolution. You said the first thing is listening. We're in a world where most people aren't listening. They just want to get their.

• 30:56Simon Sinek?

  We're in a broadcast culture.

• 30:57Lewis Howes?

  They want to broadcast their feelings, but they don't know how to express feelings, which I think is another skill. Is learning how to express your feelings and emotions without throwing up on everyone and demeaning people or calling names or screaming at someone.

• 31:11Simon Sinek?

  Calling for their cancelling, whatever it is.

• 31:13Lewis Howes?

  Everything.

• 31:13Simon Sinek?

  It's all emotion.

• 31:14Lewis Howes?

  And, and I think the third thing that you just said, the people, correct me if I'm wrong. People who usually scream the loudest sometimes aren't even clear what their values are.

• 31:27Simon Sinek?

  That's true.

• 31:28Lewis Howes?

  They're like, they think they know what a value is maybe, or they just see that's unjust. I don't like that because that happened to me and I don't agree with that or I'm.

• 31:36Simon Sinek?

  Well, I think, I think that you, what we see, what we see in our country, our country is a ship without a rudder. And has been for many years. This is not a Republican or Democrat thing. Under both Republicans and Democrats, we've been kind of like out at sea, kind of just going with the wind. And, you know, we can probably trace it to the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Soviet Union, where we knew who we were and we knew who we were against.

• 32:02Lewis Howes?

  Who were we and who were we against then? And who are we now? And who are we against?

• 32:07Simon Sinek?

  And unfortunately, you know, there's a great irony in this, right? Which is America without competition is a monopoly and monopolies, as capitalists, we don't like monopolies. Right, because we know monopoly is stifled competition. They know we're not good for the consumer, not good for the employee. Like, we don't like monopolies. We like viable competitors because we think competition. This is our fundamental belief in Adam Smith economics. We fundamentally believe that competition is good for the consumer and good for the employee. Right? And it's good for society. And so in America without a competitor is not a great America. Right? And I think we've been pretty rudderless. And I'm uncomfortable with this, but we need competition.

• 32:48Simon Sinek?

  It's called an enemy, but we really need a peer or greater than peer competitor. Why do we need competition? Because a competitor in the most basic, simple way helps you know the things you stand for. It's kind of like, you're in business. You sometimes have to look at design. What's the design of this mug? What's the design of this website? And you don't really know what you want until you see it. You know, I don't want that. Yeah, I don't want that, or I like this. Right. You don't know until you can see it. And then it's obvious. But you couldn't give anybody the instructions to get you to that and not do that. And so it's really annoying for the people who show you stuff because you make them do all this work for you and to go, absolutely not that. I know that.

• 33:33Simon Sinek?

  Right? But sometimes you have to see it to know it. Right? Yes. And like, people always come to me like, do you want this or this? Like, I don't know. Show me and I'll tell you. Let me hear it and I'll tell you which song I like better. Let me taste it and I'll tell you which meal I like better. Like, I have to try it, see it, touch it to know it. Right? And I think that the easiest way to know your values is to see the thing that stands in the way of your values. And so you know what you stand for when you can see the thing standing in the way. Now, there's a nuance here, which is really important, which is...

• 34:13Simon Sinek?

  Truly having vision and belief is you see the quote unquote enemy or the competitor as the thing standing in the way of you getting the thing that you want. But simply having an enemy being against things is really easy to rile people up and really easy to get them going. But what's beyond that wall? What's beyond that obstacle? So let's take a commercial example. Apple used to stand for the individual creative freedom. You know, that's what it stood for. And it didn't like incumbency, status quo, or slow corporate blah, right? So when Apple started, the thing standing in the way of them advancing their vision was IBM.

• 34:57Simon Sinek?

  Well, IBM became a non thing anymore. And then the thing standing in the way of them becoming their thing was Microsoft. Hi, I'm a Mac, I'm a PC. And then you can see the values remain the same. Great commercials. But the obstacles to them achieving their values, the status quo, the norm, the anti creativity, they could easily keep changing who the competitor was, but the vision remained the same. What was beyond that competitor remained the same. It's very tempting to have the competitor to have the enemy, but not know what's beyond the wall because it's very exciting, right? And so like be careful what you wish for because what happens if that enemy goes away? And now you're like, and now what? Now what do we do? Right? And you can see it in our nation.

• 35:40Simon Sinek?

  We're a nation in clearly not knowing who we are or what we stand for. We don't know who our competitors are, right? Where it's not communists versus democracies and capitalists anymore because now it's all a mess, right? So that's not it. It's something else. And you can see in the population, people desperately pursuing something to give them the feeling of belonging. So on the left or the right of the political aisle. So whether it's, uh, whether it's, uh, anti-Israel on one side of the political spectrum, it's anti-vax on the other side of the political spectrum.

• 36:22Simon Sinek?

  You can see people glomming onto something that is exciting and they get all the feels. They have create community, they create friendship, they have a sense of purpose. They've never felt like this before, they're making friends, they feel like their life matters. People understand them. They feel understood in their circles. It's amazing until it goes away.

• 36:46Simon Sinek?

  And then what? And so you can see kind of people bouncing from thing to thing. And none of those things last for very long. I mean, they could be measured in many, many years. They could measure in months or years, but it's not lifetimes. Like communism versus capitalist democracy, that was generations. That was worthy of going to war, you know? It was also the thing that made the left and the right come together, which is I, we hate each other, but we hate that more. Let's stand together against that common enemy. We don't have that anymore. We don't have that anymore. It's all against each other. It's all against each other, which is how, which is how empires fall. Empires fall from within. You know, the empires collapse as it's an act of suicide, not, not.

• 37:32Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, so, so empires collapse from within. Where we go at each other's throats and our enemies are just loving it. And you can see it now, whether, you know, whether it's the Iranians or the Russians or whoever, North Koreans, whoever screwing around with our social media. They're not inventing any conflict. They're amplifying the conflicts that exist. They're finding the things that we're at each other's throats for. And they're screwing around on social media to turn the volume way up. They're not creating anything. They're amplifying all of it. And so we hate each other and we're at each other's throats. And all the noise in social media is not even all of our own noise. It's agitators.

• 38:13Simon Sinek?

  And then you realize.

• 38:15Lewis Howes?

  But doesn't that bring people together too? Doesn't it also help create more connection?

• 38:18Simon Sinek?

  If we can recognize that that's happening, if we can recognize the group that's doing it to us and why they're doing it to us and what they don't like about us that we should be standing up for, which I don't think anybody can actually articulate very clearly right now.

• 38:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 38:32Simon Sinek?

  And we haven't had a world leader. We haven't had a president who's done it since probably the collapse of the Berlin Wall.

• 38:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 38:37Simon Sinek?

  You know, every Republican and Democrat has kind of gone insular. Our presidents used to talk about world peace.

• 38:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 38:44Simon Sinek?

  They don't talk about world peace anymore. It sounds corny and cheesy. There's no existential threat to the United States, but there is. That's the thing. It's just not easy to understand.

• 38:54Lewis Howes?

  Wow. What's the problem with capitalism then?

• 38:58Simon Sinek?

  So capitalism is good, but not the version we have. We, Adam Smith capitalism, which is competition is ultimately good for the customer and the employee. And, um, you know, the baker who selfishly wants to make the best bread and the butcher selfishly wants to make the best meat and the dairy farmer who selfishly wants to make the best cheese.

• 39:22Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 39:23Simon Sinek?

  Gives you the best sandwich. Right? That's, that's how, that's how capitalism is supposed to work.

• 39:28Lewis Howes?

  How have we gotten away from that?

• 39:30Simon Sinek?

  Um, you know, you blame the seventies and eighties. You blame the rise of Milton Friedman, uh, who's an economist who theorized, theorized that the responsibility of business was to maximize profit within the bounds of the rules and the bounds of law. Well, what happened to ethics? The law is a very low bar.

• 39:47Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 39:47Simon Sinek?

  Right? Ethics is a much higher bar. Right? Like there's a recent thing that's happening now. It's, I think it's happening in Texas where I've forgotten the guy's name. Where he's pointed out that the exact same products in India or Europe or Canada have fewer and healthier ingredients than the exact same product in the United States.

• 40:07Lewis Howes?

  Callie and Casey Means, yeah.

• 40:09Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 40:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:10Simon Sinek?

  And ours are filled with chemicals.

• 40:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:14Simon Sinek?

  Where there's like a candy bar, like the exact same candy bar. Like if I eat a Kit Kat in England and I eat a Kit Kat here, a Kit Kat here is made with partially a dried United oils, palm oil and high fructose corn syrup. There it's made with butter and sugar. So it's less bad. And when Kellogg's was interviewed, like WTF, their answer was we obey all local laws. Like really? That's your go to? Your go to is we follow the law? Like, that's, that's what you're gonna stick with? What about ethics?

• 40:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:45Simon Sinek?

  What about civic responsibility? What about, maybe it's okay to lose a little margin to be good for society? But you're gonna go with, until they change the laws, we're just gonna follow the laws.

• 40:56Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 40:57Simon Sinek?

  Like, what a low bar to go through life.

• 40:59Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 41:00Simon Sinek?

  Right? I mean, can you imagine cheating on your girlfriend and she brings it up to you, be like, it's not against the law?

• 41:04Lewis Howes?

  Right. Right, yeah.

• 41:05Simon Sinek?

  Can't cheat on your wife, that's against the law.

• 41:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, we would be together.

• 41:09Simon Sinek?

  Cheating on your girlfriend, not against the law?

• 41:10Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 41:11Simon Sinek?

  We didn't sign a marriage contract yet, I don't owe you anything.

• 41:14Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 41:14Simon Sinek?

  Low bar.

• 41:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:15Simon Sinek?

  Low bar, right? Um, and so I think the rise, Adam Smith capitalism, which is the capitalism that made America great, doesn't, is not really existent anymore. We have a Jack Welch, Milton Friedman capitalism, where we prioritize the shareholder over the customer and the employee, where we prioritize the quarter over the survival of the business. Where short-termism became everything, and shareholder supremacy became everything. We started using people to manage the books, we used mass layoffs to meet our quarterly or annual projections. We're profitable, just not as profitable as we promised Wall Street, so you get to lose your job. Sorry, nothing personal, it's just business. And so capitalism is very broken.

• 41:59Simon Sinek?

  And I think the danger is, is that people are trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They're trying to throw out all capitalism, because the system that we're in really is screwed up. But capitalism is awesome. This version of capitalism is terrible.

• 42:16Lewis Howes?

  Do you think we could?

• 42:16Simon Sinek?

  This version of capitalism is run by finance bros, who speak in tongues, that I definitely can't understand them. And by the way, I don't think they can understand me sells most of the time.

• 42:27Lewis Howes?

  Uh-huh.

• 42:29Simon Sinek?

  That it's, um, they're, they're, and, and, and the, the stock market, the stock market was invented so that the average working American could partake in the wealth of a nation.

• 42:39Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:39Simon Sinek?

  Right, that was why the stock, and the, the stock market exists for the middle class. The middle class is barely in the stock market anymore. It is now the playground of the 1%. And they are using our national institutions for their own personal gain. And, and then, I mean, just, and talk to any, talk to any finance bro.

• 43:03Simon Sinek?

  Talk to any of them and you say, what societal good are you doing? What contribution are you making to society? They all say the same nonsense. We're contributing to the economy and we're helping provide jobs. Okay, then then why are you okay with mass layoffs? If you care so much about job production? You care so much about job production, why aren't you fighting tooth and nail to make layoffs? Only a last resort, not a first line of defense. Right? It's all rationalizing. They it's just personal profit. That's all it is. Right?

• 43:37Lewis Howes?

  What if someone who's maybe running one of these businesses or another perspective might be? Well, you mentioned competition in order for me to compete and not let someone else monopolize this industry or this sector of the business. I need to be able to have more cash flow. And so I need to let go of certain people or mass, whatever it is, I'm not justifying. I'm just saying, what if they're coming in and saying, this is the only way I can compete? And otherwise, otherwise our stock will go to zero and

• 44:02Simon Sinek?

  Last line of defense, not first, not first. Layoffs, I'm not against them as long as they're existential. How many CEOs of public companies who missed their quarterly results? They're profitable. It's not like they're losing money.

• 44:20Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 44:21Simon Sinek?

  They promised X percent and they made X minus 4%. And they're they're they're getting battered by the analyst class whose bonuses depend on not the success of your company.

• 44:34Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 44:35Simon Sinek?

  Right?

• 44:38Simon Sinek?

  That's the problem.

• 44:39Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 44:40Simon Sinek?

  It's not, you're making an existential argument. I'm making, we're not as profitable as we promised argument. Not to mention the fact, fine, let's stick with, I don't even care. We're not as profitable as we promised. Fine, let's just go with that. Right? As opposed to just saying, ah, we missed our numbers. Oh, well, we'll do better next time, guys. Like, let's figure out what we did and let's try again. Right?

• 45:01Simon Sinek?

  How many of them have gone and said, look? Huge pressure on me from Wall Street. Huge pressure on me. I don't even think you understand the pressure on me. They're pushing me to do layoffs. They tell me I gotta cut expenses by 10%. I don't want to. So I want you all to go. Hey, my senior leaders, I want you to go to all of your divisions. I want to go to you. I want you to go to your front lines. Go to your junior people, your mid rank, your middle management and tell them this. We have to cut 10% and I don't want to do it with people. Find me 10%. Go find me 10%. Because if we can't find 10%, the pressures are alarming. I might have to cut heads and I don't want to. How many CEOs have done that?

• 45:44Simon Sinek?

  How many CEOs have asked their frontline teams to help them? No, none.

• 45:48Lewis Howes?

  None?

• 45:49Simon Sinek?

  No, it doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. We, we, look at the entire function of human resources. Your average CHRO gets bonused by how efficiently they did the layoffs. Incorrect. Incorrect. An HR person is supposed to be at the executive table as the voice of the, of the employee. And when the CEO or the, you more likely the CFO goes, I think we need to cut off, you know, 10% of our workforce, blah, blah, blah. That CHRO is supposed to say, don't you touch my people. You find that money somewhere else.

• 46:21Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 46:22Simon Sinek?

  That's not what's happening. They go, aye, aye, sir. Layoff's done efficiently. No, the whole thing's screwed up. No wonder people are upset. No wonder young people are voting for populists on the left or the right, whether it's Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump. I understand the rise of populism. It's because the system isn't working for the average working American on both sides of the aisle. That's why we see a rise of populism. Cause we reject. We reject the system that we're currently living in.

• 46:50Lewis Howes?

  What do you think would be the perfect system to live in or better system?

• 46:53Simon Sinek?

  There's no perfect system.

• 46:54Lewis Howes?

  What's a better system?

• 46:55Simon Sinek?

  What did, what did, what did Churchill say? Democracy, what did he say? Democracy is a terrible form of government, but it's better than all the others.

• 47:01Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 47:02Simon Sinek?

  You know, the worst form of government, but it's better than all the rest, whatever he said. You know?

• 47:06Lewis Howes?

  I mean, someone's always going to be sad, suffering, hurt, losing opportunities.

• 47:09Simon Sinek?

  Churchill said it best, right? The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings.

• 47:17Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 47:18Simon Sinek?

  The inherent virtue of communism is the equal sharing of miseries.

• 47:22Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. So which one do you want?

• 47:23Simon Sinek?

  Right, you want equal sharing of miseries and unequal sharing of blessings. And we have opted for an unequal sharing of blessings. That's just the system we've picked. That's what. There's some who'll do really well, there's some who will do not really well. You could argue that it's unfair. You might be right. But the most important thing is the middle. The most important thing is the middle class. The bigger the middle class, the more stable a society is. When the middle class starts to dissipate and starts to go away, and you start having the haves and the have-nots, and the gap between the haves and the have-nots gets wider and wider and wider, in a hundred percent of those times, what you get is dun dun dun dun, revolution. Every single time.

• 48:06Simon Sinek?

  Because we don't particularly have problems with people making more money than us. This goes back to anthropology as well. It's the anthropology of leaders. Have we ever talked about this? No, I don't think so. So we are social animals, right? And for thousands and thousands and thousands of years, we lived in tribes that were rarely bigger than about 150 people. We only started farming about 10,000 or 12,000 years ago, and we can start to sustain populations larger than about 150, 200 people, right? So we lived as subsistence hunters-gatherers for tens of thousands of years in populations no bigger than 150-ish people, okay? But there's some very practical problems, right?

• 48:46Simon Sinek?

  Which is, what if you bring food, austere conditions, you're a hunter and you bring food back to the tribe. We're all hungry. We all rush in to eat. Well, if you're built like you're built, like an athlete, and I'm the artist of the family, and we're all shoving our way into the front, I'm gonna get an elbow in the face. Yeah. This is not a good system of cooperation, because at night, when you're sleeping and there's a saber-toothed tiger, I'm not waking you. So this doesn't work, right? So we evolved into hierarchical animals. We're constantly assessing and judging who's alpha, right? And when we assess, and it's a relative scale,

• 49:29Simon Sinek?

  when we assess that someone is alpha to us, we voluntarily step back and allow our alphas to eat first. Our alphas get first choice of meat and first choice of mate. And we see this in society all the time, right? Like, if you're senior, someone will go get your coat for you in the other room. If you're junior, you get your own coat, right? There are perks. There are perks all the time. And we don't mind. We don't mind our alphas getting preferential treatment. There's not a single person on the planet who is morally offended by somebody more senior in the organization getting a higher salary. It offends no one. We might think they're an idiot, right? But we're not morally offended. But the group is not stupid. We don't give our alphas all of the advantages for free.

• 50:11Simon Sinek?

  There's a deep-seated social expectation that when danger threatens the tribe, the person who's actually better fed, who's actually genetically stronger, is going to be the one to rush towards the danger to protect them.

• 50:24Lewis Howes?

  And they need to protect us.

• 50:24Simon Sinek?

  Which is why we gave them first choice of mate, because if they get killed, we need their genes in the gene pool. We're not stupid. We don't have any problem with a CEO making a ton more money than us. So long as they're willing to sacrifice their interests, their short-term interests for our survival. And when we watch CEOs laying people off to protect their own bonuses, they have literally violated the deep-seated social responsibility of what the responsibility of a leader is, which is to protect the tribe. We don't have a problem with you making more money, but that money doesn't come for free. You earn it by putting your interests second for the group.

• 51:08Simon Sinek?

  And what we've watched for decades now is a CEO class sacrifice their people to protect themselves, never sacrifice themselves to protect their people. And that's why you have an anti-capitalist movement right now. That's why we have a pro-populist movement. That's why we're angry at the ruling classes, because they have violated their social responsibility to look after us.

• 51:33Lewis Howes?

  You're not talking about if there is...

• 51:37Lewis Howes?

  Uh, one percent of the organization that is not showing up on time, not doing a job and consistently not improving. It's okay to let those people go.

• 51:45Simon Sinek?

  If they're uncoachable.

• 51:46Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 51:48Simon Sinek?

  You don't lay somebody off just because they have substandard performance. You don't lay somebody off just because they're they're difficult to be around. You coach them. You know this.

• 51:55Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 51:56Simon Sinek?

  Right?

• 51:57Lewis Howes?

  You're more talking about like, okay, we just need 10% gone.

• 52:00Simon Sinek?

  I need to, I need to, I need my numbers back. I need you done. It's the first choice.

• 52:04Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 52:05Simon Sinek?

  Right? And then they're surprised that they have morale issues that last for years beyond the short term financial bump they got.

• 52:11Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 52:11Simon Sinek?

  Idiots. I mean, these things, this is not rocket scientists.

• 52:15Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 52:16Simon Sinek?

  Like, I'm not smart enough to run a, a, a multi-billion international, you know, public company. Which is proof that that part is really easy, because if I understand it, I know they understand.

• 52:27Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 52:27Simon Sinek?

  That means they must be ignoring it.

• 52:29Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 52:29Simon Sinek?

  Because they're definitely smarter than I am.

• 52:32Lewis Howes?

  So what needs to change in order for that to start to take place in big corporations?

• 52:39Simon Sinek?

  We need new leaders.

• 52:40Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 52:40Simon Sinek?

  We need new leaders with an ethical compass. We need new leaders who are willing to make change, even if the law doesn't require them to make it. We need leaders who use layoffs existentially only and as a last resort, not a first line of defense. We need leaders who, uh, um, who build businesses to contribute to society, not just to make money. Where we throw out Milton Friedman. We literally throw him out and say, he was wrong. The purpose of a business is not just to make money within the bounds of the law. The purpose of the business is to contribute to something larger than itself. And if you are good at doing that, you will make lots of money. I like to think of a business like a car, right? We don't buy cars simply so we can buy gas. That is not the purpose of a car, simply to get more gas, right?

• 53:25Simon Sinek?

  The purpose of a car is to go somewhere. And what do you need to make that car go? Gas, money. The purpose of a company is to go somewhere. The purpose of a company is to move a needle, contribute, make my life a little better, a little easier, a little more fun, whatever it is, a little more convenient, I don't care. Contribute to my life in some way, shape or form, even if it's just to make me smile. And if you can do that, I will give you money and that money will fuel you to do that even more. And the CEO is the person who's sitting in the driver's seat, looking out the front window, not the gas pedal, not the gas dial and going, we're going there. And the CFO is the one watching the gas dial going, okay, slow down, go faster, okay, you're fine.

• 54:08Simon Sinek?

  The CEO should be looking out the front door, out the front window. But too often we have CEOs obsessed with the gas dial, the gas gauge, right? And all the people like, I like where you're going. Can I join? Those are called employees. So we've completely forgotten why companies exist. They're supposed to make life a little better, a little easier, a little more fun, a little more convenient, whatever it is.

• 54:30Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 54:32Simon Sinek?

  And the competition is who can do it better?

• 54:34Lewis Howes?

  In a capitalistic world.

• 54:36Simon Sinek?

  I always get all riled up when it comes to.

• 54:37Lewis Howes?

  I like it though, I like it. In a capitalistic society, I've heard you say you need competition.

• 54:42Simon Sinek?

  Yes, we like competition.

• 54:43Lewis Howes?

  We like competition because it drives innovation.

• 54:46Simon Sinek?

  Makes us better.

• 54:46Lewis Howes?

  Makes us better. You gotta improve. You can't have a crappy.

• 54:48Simon Sinek?

  You know this, go for a run by yourself, you run. You go for a run in a race, you run faster.

• 54:55Lewis Howes?

  I ran my fastest turkey trot time last week. You know, I was like.

• 54:57Simon Sinek?

  It was a race.

• 54:58Lewis Howes?

  A race.

• 54:58Simon Sinek?

  Or you and I both know this, you go for a run, you just pick somebody, pretend.

• 55:02Lewis Howes?

  Oh yeah, are you really going your fastest?

• 55:04Simon Sinek?

  And then you just run ahead of them and you pick somebody else, you run ahead of them.

• 55:07Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. But capitalism you love.

• 55:10Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, I think capitalism is fantastic.

• 55:11Lewis Howes?

  And competition we need.

• 55:13Simon Sinek?

  Correct.

• 55:15Lewis Howes?

  But kind of going back to the beginning.

• 55:16Simon Sinek?

  And by the way, communism doesn't work. We know that because people are greedy.

• 55:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly, yeah.

• 55:21Simon Sinek?

  Some are more equal than others.

• 55:23Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. And it sounds like something that we're, we're missing or something that gets lost in translation, let's say, in a capitalistic competitive world that is needed, where communism doesn't work because people are greedy, is collaboration.

• 55:37Simon Sinek?

  Yes.

• 55:38Lewis Howes?

  And also going back to the idea of friendship.

• 55:42Lewis Howes?

  Friends collaborate in a non-business way, but maybe also, but it's a collaboration of activities, of ideas, of words, shared values, of conversations, travel, whatever it is. You're experiencing life in a collaborative environment.

• 55:56Simon Sinek?

  We're biologically engineered for it.

• 55:59Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 55:59Simon Sinek?

  Yes.

• 56:00Lewis Howes?

  But when we live in a, you know, if you're having a, if you're a part of a company, maybe you got friends within the company, but now there's competition because we're making money.

• 56:09Simon Sinek?

  Did you ever watch the Great British Baking Show Bake Off?

• 56:11Lewis Howes?

  I think I've seen clips, but not a whole.

• 56:13Simon Sinek?

  That is, that show is a metaphor for the way life should be. Okay? It is a competition. There are winners and losers. Somebody gets booted off every month, every week, and somebody gets star baker every single week. And they help each other. In fact, I was watching the final season, the final episode just this week. And they're competing to be star, they're competing to be the winner of the whole competition. And somebody was struggling and they said, well, you help me. And the other guy came running over and said, absolutely.

• 56:44Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 56:45Simon Sinek?

  They're competing to win. They're not competing to make the other person lose.

• 56:49Lewis Howes?

  I just got the chills there.

• 56:51Simon Sinek?

  Okay.

• 56:51Lewis Howes?

  You know, it's interesting when you're saying that, I don't want me to interrupt you, but something that just came to me is when I was a decathlete, as an athlete, where I can relate to this.

• 57:01Lewis Howes?

  Decathlon is 10 events and one event, track and field.

• 57:04Simon Sinek?

  I know what decathlon is.

• 57:05Lewis Howes?

  For those that don't know.

• 57:06Simon Sinek?

  I was a big Daley Thompson fan back when I was a kid.

• 57:08Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, there you go. So the, there's a beauty to the decathlon, at least the way I was living in it. And you want to win and there's 10 events, you're trying to win at every event. For whatever reason, when I got into the decathlon, it was one of the most beautiful experiences an athlete that I've ever had because I may be better at the high jump than someone else. But I'm rooting for the other guy that I'm trying to beat. Hey, you can get over this. Let me give you some tips and strategies. There might be someone who's better at the pole vault than me, who's cheering me on a lower height, trying to get over the bar and like, way to go. And here's where you can use my pole. You know, whatever. It was like this beautiful thing.

• 57:48Simon Sinek?

  I've heard that about the decathlon. I wonder, I wonder what it is about the decathlon versus other sports.

• 57:52Lewis Howes?

  I think because it's so hard.

• 57:54Simon Sinek?

  Or because there's variety. I don't know what it is.

• 57:56Lewis Howes?

  It's, I think it's so hard and you're not going to be the best at every event.

• 57:59Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 57:59Lewis Howes?

  You're not the best.

• 58:00Simon Sinek?

  And so you support each other.

• 58:01Lewis Howes?

  You, you might be the best at one or two of the 10 of the group that you're competing in, of 20 guys you're competing against.

• 58:06Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 58:07Lewis Howes?

  And you know how hard it is to to get better at some of these technical events. It's so challenging. And I think there's a level of respect also with your competitor of like, man, he's a decathlete too. I know how hard he's had to train on the high hurdles and the pole vault and the discus and the shot. It's like, he just endures pain.

• 58:26Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 58:26Lewis Howes?

  And it's like, so you kind of just respect, you want to beat them, but you were like, you build a brotherhood.

• 58:31Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 58:31Lewis Howes?

  With your competitors.

• 58:32Simon Sinek?

  That makes sense to me.

• 58:33Lewis Howes?

  And.

• 58:34Simon Sinek?

  And that's the metaphor, Bake Off or or a decathlon.

• 58:37Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. And it's becoming your best. It's like, you may not beat the best guy, but did you get better?

• 58:42Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 58:42Lewis Howes?

  And become your best and have PRs at these different events.

• 58:45Simon Sinek?

  And I think that's what it is. It's okay to compete to win, but you can't compete for the other person to lose.

• 58:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 58:51Simon Sinek?

  And I think we've mistaken the two. And just look at our politics, right? There used to be a time in our politics where 80% of the of the negotiating happened behind closed doors and 20% of it's for the cameras. Now it's 100% for the cameras, right? And what they would do is they would come up with an agreement that both parties could go back to their constituents and say, we got what we wanted. Now it's not enough to say, we got what we wanted. They also have to say, and they got nothing. And get to loses. Us.

• 59:18Lewis Howes?

  Everyone.

• 59:18Simon Sinek?

  Everyone, right? And so, and again, this is infinite games, right? In a finite game where there's beginning, middle and end, sure, there's a winner and a loser. But in business or life.

• 59:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Relationships.

• 59:31Simon Sinek?

  You you can win without other buddy people. You can hit your numbers, you can beat your numbers, and it doesn't mean that the other company has to like go into bankruptcy.

• 59:38Lewis Howes?

  100%.

• 59:39Simon Sinek?

  Right? Like, you can compete to win, but you cannot compete for the other person to lose. And for some reason, in this modern day and age, it is not enough for us to win. We also want to ensure that the others around us lose. And that's nonsense. And and it and and this is why I say, this is going right back in full circle where we started. This is why comparisons are the thief of joy. Because it's not enough that your life is good. You want your life to be better than somebody else. You want somebody else's life to suffer so you can feel better. Why can't you just be happy with what you've got?

• 1:00:10Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:00:10Simon Sinek?

  Why can't you just be grateful? Right? Okay, they have more money than you, but your kids are better.

• 1:00:15Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:00:16Simon Sinek?

  Like, like, we don't, we don't spend enough time. This is why you have the gratitude practice. It sounds so ooey, gooey, mushy, you know, hippie dippy. But I swear.

• 1:00:25Lewis Howes?

  It work.

• 1:00:26Simon Sinek?

  I swear, you wake up in the morning or before you go to bed at night, especially if you've got somebody sleeping next to you. And just say, can we spend a minute, even if you do it by yourself and just say, five things we're grateful for, even if it's the same thing every night. I love our family. I love our home.

• 1:00:45Simon Sinek?

  I loved the dinner you made tonight for us. I loved that we went on vacation. And I love that we have a vacation coming up. And you realize very quickly,

• 1:01:00Simon Sinek?

  life's pretty good. But when we do the comparison game, all we focus on is the things that are missing. Can you imagine going to bed at night and talking about all the things I hate about my life and all the things that are lacking?

• 1:01:11Lewis Howes?

  Exhausting.

• 1:01:12Simon Sinek?

  But we'd all be depressed.

• 1:01:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And we do it, people do it all the time.

• 1:01:16Simon Sinek?

  We do it all the time. And you know one thing that I've done that's helped me? I have to have Instagram because I need to look at it for work. I mean, and then

• 1:01:24Simon Sinek?

  I deleted it. You can hide on an iPhone, you can hide an app from your, from anywhere on your phone. It's just hidden. And when you, you have to search for it to get it. And I took it out of the search, search suggestions, which you can do as well. So literally it shows up nowhere unless I type in I N S T and then it pops up. My use of Instagram has plummeted.

• 1:01:45Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:01:45Simon Sinek?

  Plummeted, plummeted.

• 1:01:47Lewis Howes?

  Cause it's just not accessible right there.

• 1:01:48Simon Sinek?

  It's just, I just, you know, when you're just like looking at your phone because you're bored and you're just like swiping through the screen. You're like clicking Instagram. It's just, I'm not clicking on it Instagram and I'm not searching for it because I don't need it.

• 1:01:59Simon Sinek?

  Oh, and I've turned off all the notifications. That's a big one.

• 1:02:00Lewis Howes?

  That's great. Yeah, I don't have that.

• 1:02:02Simon Sinek?

  I've turned off all my notifications, but uh,

• 1:02:05Simon Sinek?

  just by not having it visible, I'm the happier person.

• 1:02:10Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:02:12Lewis Howes?

  I've thought of, I mean, I've thought about a few things in the last few months. I don't know if I want to do them, but I've thought about this. My dad never let us watch the news. And so I don't watch the news today, still.

• 1:02:23Simon Sinek?

  How lucky, how lucky.

• 1:02:25Lewis Howes?

  But I also don't feel anxious and stressed about like day to day, like this is all happening. The world was collapsing. Like it feels like that when you watch the news to me. And when I watch a clip here and there, I'm like, gosh, it just feels like there's so much bad happening, which there is. But I choose to look at the good happening and focus on the gratitude of the good and focus on how can I continue to improve the good? Or improve some of the bad, not focus on it as much and the world is ending.

• 1:02:51Lewis Howes?

  But I've been thinking about

• 1:02:52Simon Sinek?

  The world's not ending. It is struggling, but it's not

• 1:02:54Lewis Howes?

  For sure, yeah. But there, there's a lot of beauty as well if you focus on the beauty.

• 1:02:58Simon Sinek?

  Sure, I think.

• 1:03:01Lewis Howes?

  But I've thought about

• 1:03:04Lewis Howes?

  getting a brand new phone number. One, because I get tons of like scam texts and calls all day long. And I'm just like, I so I have everything on mute on my phone.

• 1:03:11Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 1:03:12Lewis Howes?

  Already, just because I don't want to get any calls inbound notifications. So I've thought about getting a brand new number and just kind of putting like, I don't know, top 100 names that I need or something in there. And just limiting distractions in general. And I thought about unfollowing everyone, which is kind of like a big thing on Instagram for me of like, oh, well, if I should do this.

• 1:03:33Simon Sinek?

  You just mute everyone.

• 1:03:34Lewis Howes?

  I could just, maybe I just do that, just so I don't get

• 1:03:36Simon Sinek?

  I've started muting people.

• 1:03:37Lewis Howes?

  Content of stuff, right?

• 1:03:38Simon Sinek?

  I've started muting like tons of people.

• 1:03:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, maybe keep following to that. Yeah.

• 1:03:41Simon Sinek?

  I don't want to offend it. It's social currency.

• 1:03:44Lewis Howes?

  That's the thing. It's like, am I going to offend someone if I do that?

• 1:03:46Simon Sinek?

  Like I've noticed like friends who like who I haven't talked to in a while and follow me like, what? Well, I'm following you then.

• 1:03:52Lewis Howes?

  Why is that?

• 1:03:52Simon Sinek?

  Because we're

• 1:03:53Lewis Howes?

  Why do people do that?

• 1:03:54Simon Sinek?

  It's passive aggression.

• 1:03:56Lewis Howes?

  Why do people get hurt by someone unfollowing them?

• 1:03:59Simon Sinek?

  It's passive aggression. Like not being invited to the birthday party. It's actively not, and that's telling everybody, I'm not inviting you to the birthday party. I'm having a birthday party. Louis isn't invited. Just want Louis to know, hey, Louis, you're not invited to my birthday party. Just want you to know. So it's, it's fine. But yeah, I think it's, it is true. Just, I'm just mute everybody.

• 1:04:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, okay. And maybe it's a better thing. Just so I don't get updates on all this stuff, you know? Or just don't open

• 1:04:22Simon Sinek?

  And always say no to notifications.

• 1:04:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:26Simon Sinek?

  Allowed notifications? No. I have notifications turned on for text, phone call.

• 1:04:36Simon Sinek?

  And I think that's it.

• 1:04:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:38Simon Sinek?

  Every other notification from my, from my phone is turned off. Text and phone calls, the only thing that is allowed. And even phone calls don't ring. My phone doesn't buzz. It makes no noise when that phone call comes in. And then I say, oh, I missed a call and I call them back.

• 1:04:50Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah, that's smart. It's wise.

• 1:04:52Simon Sinek?

  So basically, the only thing, and I always have my ringer off, always.

• 1:04:56Lewis Howes?

  Me too. I never have it on.

• 1:04:58Simon Sinek?

  But also the thing that I've been practicing. Is having my phone not near me? So you have your phone in your

• 1:05:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yours is over there.

• 1:05:05Simon Sinek?

  My phone is in the other room.

• 1:05:06Lewis Howes?

  I turned mine on mute, so I get no buzzing or nothing.

• 1:05:09Simon Sinek?

  But it's not mute. You should have put it in airplane mode.

• 1:05:11Lewis Howes?

  That's good.

• 1:05:12Simon Sinek?

  Because you still know that things are coming in.

• 1:05:16Lewis Howes?

  I don't hear it or feel it.

• 1:05:17Simon Sinek?

  But you know they're coming in. When it's in, so when that

• 1:05:20Lewis Howes?

  One of your videos that I saw of yours in the past

• 1:05:22Simon Sinek?

  There's data on this.

• 1:05:22Lewis Howes?

  Was, was you talking about

• 1:05:25Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:25Lewis Howes?

  Phone on, you know, on the table here. You know, or flipped up or flipped down or whatever it might be, because you're still, you're, you're waiting for something.

• 1:05:33Simon Sinek?

  Sure.

• 1:05:33Lewis Howes?

  Right?

• 1:05:34Simon Sinek?

  So there's data on this. I'll get the numbers wrong, but you'll get the point, right? Which is when you have a phone on a desk with face up, you're, you're something, you're like distracted 70% of the time or something. It's like ridiculously high. If the phone is down, it goes to like 40%. But you're still like, you're looking at it the whole time, you know, wondering what's coming in. If it's on and in your bag next to you, you're distracted 10% of the time. You're still distracted.

• 1:05:59Lewis Howes?

  I believe that.

• 1:05:59Simon Sinek?

  It's in your bag.

• 1:06:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 1:06:01Simon Sinek?

  So what I find is if you put it in airplane mode.

• 1:06:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:04Simon Sinek?

  Then you know nothing's coming in.

• 1:06:05Lewis Howes?

  Or turn it off.

• 1:06:06Simon Sinek?

  Turn it off or put it in airplane mode and leave it in another room.

• 1:06:09Lewis Howes?

  It's good.

• 1:06:09Simon Sinek?

  I do it all the time now, and I find that actually quite relaxing.

• 1:06:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's good.

• 1:06:12Simon Sinek?

  Because I know nothing's coming in. I don't even, it's not even near me.

• 1:06:15Lewis Howes?

  Yes, I usually leave it in my other room, but my fiance called me right before, but it's just, I usually leave it in my office in a whole other separate part.

• 1:06:23Simon Sinek?

  I hear, I hear the excuse.

• 1:06:25Lewis Howes?

  I mean, she was flying on a plane and I was like, she had got back to me in three hours. So I was like, ah, it's anyway.

• 1:06:30Simon Sinek?

  She's on a plane. So, but, but you know, parents are the worst offenders of this, but there's schools that want to ban phones and it's the parents that say no.

• 1:06:37Lewis Howes?

  I think schools should ban phones.

• 1:06:39Simon Sinek?

  I think they should have banned the phone as well. The parents are like, well, what if there's an emergency? It's like, well, you call the office.

• 1:06:43Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 1:06:44Simon Sinek?

  They know where your kid is. Like when we were kids, they're like, uh, you need to come to the office.

• 1:06:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:06:48Simon Sinek?

  You know, your grandmother.

• 1:06:49Lewis Howes?

  They called your office, so is it?

• 1:06:50Simon Sinek?

  You know, like they just told you the office, like we know how to, we know where the kid is all day.

• 1:06:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:54Simon Sinek?

  You know, number one and number two, it's, there's not emergencies. It's parents just calling and say, what time you want me to pick you up? You know, and so. Let the kids keep their phones in their lockers.

• 1:07:04Lewis Howes?

  I think they should.

• 1:07:05Simon Sinek?

  You know, but there should be no phones in a classroom.

• 1:07:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:08Simon Sinek?

  None. They should be banned. It's parents who are the big offenders.

• 1:07:11Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 1:07:12Simon Sinek?

  You know, I need to get ahold of my kid in case there's an emergency. How many emergencies you having per week?

• 1:07:16Lewis Howes?

  No, none.

• 1:07:17Simon Sinek?

  One a year?

• 1:07:18Lewis Howes?

  Maybe.

• 1:07:19Simon Sinek?

  If you're lucky.

• 1:07:19Lewis Howes?

  More maybe.

• 1:07:20Simon Sinek?

  Unlucky?

• 1:07:21Lewis Howes?

  Right, maybe.

• 1:07:21Simon Sinek?

  It's close to zero.

• 1:07:22Lewis Howes?

  And you just call the principal to call out?

• 1:07:24Simon Sinek?

  The number of times I was called out of my classroom and in all of my junior high school and high school life was maybe twice.

• 1:07:30Lewis Howes?

  I don't think, I think never.

• 1:07:31Simon Sinek?

  Maybe twice.

• 1:07:32Lewis Howes?

  Never.

• 1:07:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I don't think there was time for me. I mean, going back to the whole capitalism, competition and collaboration. Do you feel like friends are more collaborators or more competitive with one another than in today's society? When they're driven, when they see screaming and competition and.

• 1:07:53Simon Sinek?

  I mean.

• 1:07:53Lewis Howes?

  Fighting on TV.

• 1:07:54Simon Sinek?

  If you're insecure about something, you will find yourself feeling competitive with your friends. And I think that that is more a sign of something you're going through. We've all been there. I've definitely been competitive with friends.

• 1:08:06Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:08:07Simon Sinek?

  Sure, of course. It's because I'm not in a good space. And their success is reminding me of the thing that I'm struggling with.

• 1:08:14Lewis Howes?

  So are you a good friend if you're competing with your friend?

• 1:08:16Simon Sinek?

  I think you're a good friend if you're open with your friend of what you're going through. Hey, can I talk to you for a minute? I'm going through some stuff and I'm having feelings that are making me real uncomfortable. Like I'm getting jealous of your success and that's screwed up because I'm so proud of you and so happy for you. Can I just talk to you about what I'm going through in my life because I don't think I'm in a good place if I'm having that feeling? You know, jealousy is a feeling, like happy, sad, angry. And, you know, it's the same thing in relationships. Usually when we feel jealous. What we do is we demand that our partner change their behavior so we don't have to deal with insecurities. Right? Like, how dare you, how dare you talk to your ex? How dare you look at that pretty barista?

• 1:08:59Simon Sinek?

  And so they're forcing you to change your behaviors. They don't have to do. As opposed to, hey babe, I got really jealous when you called your ex. And I know you guys have been friends long before you met me. Can I just talk it through with you? I think I'm, I'm going through some stuff that can you just hear me out for a little bit? Right now, then you may say, you know what? I'm going to talk to her less because I want to be supportive on you and your journey. But that's your choice to change your behavior. You know, in support of your partner.

• 1:09:24Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:09:26Simon Sinek?

  But I think it's the same in, in, in, in work stuff. The ability to understand that jealousy is a feeling and it's your feeling. And you need to be able to deal with your, your insecurities. And you can't be mad at your friend for being successful. You can't be mad at your friend for achieving something that you wish you could achieve. But you can look at yourself and saying, am I not doing something or I'm and, or am I? And this is why we'll go back to what I said before, which is work towards the thing that you want to do. And then if you achieve it, accept that you won. Cause that feeling of comparing yourself to your friends really goes down a lot. That's what happened to me.

• 1:10:07Lewis Howes?

  How do you feel though, at this season of your life? You're, you're only 51, you're still very young, but you've accomplished so much on a big scale. You know, the books, the TED talks, the speaking, the business, the, you know, you're around the most, you know, intelligent, successful people in the world. You've got powerful friends, all these things, you've done it, right?

• 1:10:29Lewis Howes?

  But how do you not look back and say, oh, my best days are behind me. Like I've won, so I just like kind of just coast the rest of my life?

• 1:10:38Simon Sinek?

  No, no, no, no, no. So let me, so, so I think of my life, I think, I, I think of my life like an iceberg. Right? Which is when I was starting out, I had a vision of the world that exists, that could exist, but it didn't exist yet. So the whole iceberg was under the ocean. I could see it, but nobody else could see it.

• 1:10:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:54Simon Sinek?

  And so I was trying to describe what I saw, but people like, I, I don't get it. You know, and then a few people kind of understood what I was trying to say. Or the things that I was putting out in the world helped me articulate it. And so a bit of iceberg popped out and people would be like, oh, I can see what you're trying to do here. That's amazing. And then they would help me because they saw what I was trying to build, because they saw what was above the ocean. But what I saw, what was beneath the ocean constantly, like, oh, I still have so much more to do. And no matter how much I've accomplished, you know,

• 1:11:26Simon Sinek?

  Written a few books, you know, I've run the internet lottery more than once, which is amazing. You know, and more of the iceberg shows up. So people now, you know, you kind of know what I stand for. You know, the vision I have of the world that I'm trying to build, you know, you either buy into it or you don't. You know, like I'm pretty predictable, you know? In other words, more of the iceberg is showing up and people look at what's above the, above the ocean line, above the sea line. And they go, wow, look at all this stuff you've accomplished. Hmm. And I just can still see everything that's beneath the ocean. Like, oh, still more to do. But I'm not moving the goalposts. I'm not trying to get a different iceberg. Interesting. I just know that, that vision is infinite. All men are created equal.

• 1:12:10Simon Sinek?

  Uh, I have a dream. They're all ideals that are unrealistic and unachievable, but will die trying. And that's the point. I imagine a world of world peace where we can resolve conflict peacefully. I'm never going to get it, but try. I imagine a world in which people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are, and end the day fulfilled by the work that they, that they do. Never going to achieve it, but I'll die trying. And so when I say I've won, what I mean is there's iceberg above the ocean. What I mean is, is I'm not living in dream world anymore. What I mean is I have momentum. What I mean is I have help. What I mean is, is the movement is advancing. And this is my standard. However, anybody else wants to define it is up to them.

• 1:12:52Simon Sinek?

  You know, this is the worst thing you can do is pick somebody else's standard and make it your own. You know, this is what I, this is for me. For me, it was about momentum. It was always about momentum. That I wanted to do something that could survive me. And if you look at, you know, this, this class of, and I hate the term, but it lets use the term that people use, but thought leaders. Right? Which is the mistake that so many of them make. Is, and I call it the Oprah problem, right?

• 1:13:22Lewis Howes?

  What's the Oprah problem?

• 1:13:23Simon Sinek?

  Oprah's amazing. She's a force of nature. She's incredible. She's inspiring. She's amazing. We all bow down to Oprah. She's a currency. You know, and people like, is that person good at what they do? That's Oprah's person. You're like, oh, wow.

• 1:13:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:38Simon Sinek?

  You know, like, like, if you're connected with Oprah, you've made it. The Oprah mistake, she put her face and name on absolutely everything. She was on the cover of every single issue of Oprah magazine. She's got her face on the cover of every single book. So what happens when there's no Oprah? What happens to the company? What happens to the movement? I can predict it dies.

• 1:14:02Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:14:03Simon Sinek?

  Do you think anyone cares about Oprah magazine when Oprah's not around? What does Oprah's network stand for without Oprah? Force of nature, who did the thing that made strategic sense, which is to leverage the brand. But at what cost? The cost is it probably will only survive a lifetime. A powerful lifetime at that, but not beyond. And so I don't put my face on any books. Cause I'm afraid of the Oprah problem. I don't want my face and name on everything. And I've been very resistant. My team sometimes fights me with it, because nobody Googles the name of my company.

• 1:14:48Simon Sinek?

  They Google me. And so I, I've had to sort of recognize that I have to let go of some of it for expedience sake. But I'm deathly afraid of making it all about me.

• 1:15:01Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. What do you think's the thing you'll be most proud of that you accomplish? When it's all said and done?

• 1:15:06Simon Sinek?

  Well, I mean, I've added to the English language. I mean, I think that's amazing, like the concept of why? Like journalists, companies, CEOs, analysts, whoever, people.

• 1:15:18Simon Sinek?

  Talk about their why. They use the concept of why as a noun. Like, what's your why? That company doesn't know their why. They need to, and they don't quote me. Wall Street journalists say the problem with that company is they don't know their why and they do not reference any of my work. It's just in the vernacular. And prior to my work, that didn't exist. And I'm so proud of that. I'm so proud of that. And the best part about it is it's not associated with me. That's the thing I'm most proud of. That most people don't know. That that was what I was working on all those years ago. It's just part of life now. And that to me, I can sit back and no one will know my name. I don't care if my name's forgotten. I want to be one of those stars that nobody knows who they are. I think that's great. Let somebody else, you know?

• 1:16:01Simon Sinek?

  But to know that something that I did has added to people's understanding of the world, disconnected from me.

• 1:16:10Simon Sinek?

  I'm done. Everything else is cherries.

• 1:16:12Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. What do you think would be your most proud, I guess, non-business or non-society-related accomplishment?

• 1:16:21Simon Sinek?

  I'm a really good uncle.

• 1:16:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:24Simon Sinek?

  I love my, I love being an uncle. I love my niece and nephew. My family fuels me as if I were their, as if I were their dad.

• 1:16:34Lewis Howes?

  Would you ever have kids or no?

• 1:16:36Simon Sinek?

  I mean, it's, it's, I, I'm more in love with the idea of partnership than I am of children. Like, I like the idea of raising children with a partner. So my drive is not to have a child. My drive is to find somebody I love so much that I want the lifestyle of raising a family with that person. Like, I would always get turned on, like, emotionally, when I'd see my sister, my brother-in-law, like, doing the division of labor. I'd just be at their house and I'd be like, okay, you bath the kids, I'll clean up.

• 1:17:04Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:17:04Simon Sinek?

  I'm like, oh, that's so cool. And even now, like, okay, you get, you know, you get this one from school, I'll get that one from, you know, volleyball practice.

• 1:17:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:12Simon Sinek?

  And the division of labor and the organizing, I think is awesome. It's a well-oiled machine. That's what it. I love partnership. I love partnership and division of labor. I just think it's the best thing in the world.

• 1:17:23Lewis Howes?

  So you, you may have a family in the future? You're, you're open to it?

• 1:17:27Simon Sinek?

  I'm not close to it.

• 1:17:28Lewis Howes?

  You're not against it?

• 1:17:29Simon Sinek?

  Not against.

• 1:17:30Lewis Howes?

  How important do you think family is in America? And to society?

• 1:17:36Simon Sinek?

  It's essential. I mean, you know, whether it's family or friends who are like family. Um, you know, I think that we, we have to perform for society. You have to act a certain way. There's levels of decorum. Manners, values, morals. You know, and as much said that you get to be yourself where no, you don't. You have to, you're not, you shouldn't be not yourself. You should always be you for sure. But you smooth the edges, like you and I, like I curse like a sailor when I'm not on camera. Sure. I'm on camera. Yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm toned it down a bit. Yeah, yeah. Right? You're you, but less. I'm still me. I'm still this, like you hang out with me privately. This is what you're gonna get. Yeah, with some applause there. A little more cursing, you know?

• 1:18:20Simon Sinek?

  Uh, you know, a little more irreverence, you know? Sure. Uh, I'm still me, but I, you, you smooth the edges depending on like how you are with your friends is very different than how you are, uh, in an interview. How you are on a first date is very different than how you are on a 10th date. Hmm. Right? And it's still all you, but you, you have to change for the situation. We have no choice. It's how society functions. If, if we all just want to be our quote unquote true selves all the time. Society would break. It would be chaos. So the, the idea of like bending and molding to fit the situation, you have to be a little different at work than you are with your friends.

• 1:19:01Simon Sinek?

  The jokes you make with your friends, you can't make at work. You, you, you're not allowed, right? You get fired, baby. You might get fired, yeah. Yeah. Uh, and so, or you'll upset somebody where you're not upsetting your friends, right? And so you, you, you have to do that. And so the value of family and more important than the value of friends is that's the one place, those intimate settings where you can let it all go. Right, and be, hopefully be accepted, yeah, yeah. You can be weird and you can be irreverent and you can be rude and you can say nonsense and you can let all your insecurities out on the table as opposed to hiding them every day, which is what we're all very good at hiding our insecurities on a daily basis.

• 1:19:46Simon Sinek?

  Like on a first date, don't put all your insecurities on the table. Not, not good first date etiquette, sure, you know? By a 10th date, yeah, start to search for vulnerability, you know? But with your friends, it's all out on the table. And that's why friends are important, because if you're playing by society's rules, if you're hedging yourself to conf- what will people think? They're thinking nothing, you're by yourself with your, with your friends. What will people think of me? They'll think nothing. They're not thinking of you. And that's why friends are important, because you have to have the release of being your fully exposed, true self with all of the weirdness and, and, and, and, and warts just out on display and you don't feel judged and you feel safe and you feel loved.

• 1:20:31Simon Sinek?

  And that's why friends are important. Because if you're pretending, not pretending, that's the wrong word. If you're hedging and smoothing for society and you're hedging and smoothing in private, you're gonna feel lonely and you're gonna feel uncomfortable.

• 1:20:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:45Simon Sinek?

  If you're, you're fully open nut job self with your friends and then you're your fully nut job self out in public, people are gonna be like, uh, no.

• 1:20:55Lewis Howes?

  Chill out, yeah, yeah, chill out.

• 1:20:57Simon Sinek?

  Uh, and, and I've seen it. Like, I know, I know a guy who, who does stuff what we do and he is very irreverent. He curses on stage, I mean, he's like, he's raw. That's how he is in private and how he is in public. And his career's great, but I also know he doesn't get invited to certain gigs.

• 1:21:17Lewis Howes?

  All right, right. Because of that.

• 1:21:18Simon Sinek?

  Because of that.

• 1:21:19Lewis Howes?

  Personality. It might get him invited to certain things because of it, it might not get him invited because, who knows?

• 1:21:23Simon Sinek?

  I think the uninvitations happen more than the invitations.

• 1:21:25Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 1:21:26Simon Sinek?

  You know? And they just wish he would stop cursing.

• 1:21:31Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 1:21:32Simon Sinek?

  Because the audience doesn't want that.

• 1:21:34Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:21:35Simon Sinek?

  And if he doesn't care, then he doesn't care.

• 1:21:39Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, yeah.

• 1:21:40Simon Sinek?

  But, but you know, the point is, is there are costs.

• 1:21:43Lewis Howes?

  Sure, of course. There's a price.

• 1:21:45Simon Sinek?

  There's a price.

• 1:21:45Lewis Howes?

  There's a price for everything.

• 1:21:46Simon Sinek?

  And is there's a benefit to that price? Then have, have at it.

• 1:21:49Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:21:49Simon Sinek?

  But anyway, the point is, is, the point is, is not that. The point is, is the value of friends is that you can be yourself without judgment.

• 1:21:58Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:21:59Simon Sinek?

  And that is really important.

• 1:22:00Lewis Howes?

  One of the big takeaways for me from this conversation, I always get a lot of great insights when I'm around you, Simon.

• 1:22:04Simon Sinek?

  We cover a lot of topics.

• 1:22:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's, it's beautiful. One of the big insights, though, I think the biggest thing for me, which I think everyone could be better at, is learning the skill of conflict resolution.

• 1:22:15Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:16Lewis Howes?

  Because

• 1:22:16Simon Sinek?

  You talked about it much.

• 1:22:17Lewis Howes?

  If you can learn the skill of conflict resolution, we flirted with it. You said the first thing is listening. I think I jumped in and said, you know, learning how to express your feelings as another thing that you were talking about. And you mentioned a clear sense of your values, like understanding what are my values? So I can communicate my values without, you know, throwing up on everyone. And also be able to listen to someone else and see, okay, is there any middle ground? And I think there's something else you said, which was interesting, which is managing insecurities. Like, understanding your insecurities and being able to to talk about it either with your friends or in a way where you can manage them. And maybe it's not good to talk about them right away with certain people when you're in conflict, but

• 1:22:59Lewis Howes?

  understanding, okay, I'm feeling jealous, I'm feeling insecure, I'm feeling not heard, whatever it might be. I'm feeling a lack. And being able to manage them. So that you can hopefully communicate and express what you need to communicate at the right time in the right manner. You've got an optimism company, you've got an online human skills courses. You've got these different courses. I'm not sure if conflict resolution is one of them. If it isn't, I think it should be.

• 1:23:24Simon Sinek?

  I think it might be, and if it isn't, you're right.

• 1:23:26Lewis Howes?

  But you've got a lot of, because I think that's kind of the root of a lot of problems, is people don't know how to communicate when there is conflict.

• 1:23:33Simon Sinek?

  So here, I know we're winding down, but let's do a couple of practical things. So one of them was,

• 1:23:42Simon Sinek?

  if you're in conflict with someone, and let's talk about relationships, because it's, it works at work as well, because relationships are relationships, but here's some mistakes that we make, right? We correct people's facts in an emotional situation. Right? We bring facts from an emotional gunfight. Do not do that.

• 1:23:58Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:23:59Simon Sinek?

  Right. So for example,

• 1:24:00Lewis Howes?

  Why not?

• 1:24:02Simon Sinek?

  Because facts don't, facts and emotions are different things, right? I'll give you an example. Your girlfriend says to you, I'm so angry at you because six times last week you did this thing and you went, actually, it was four times. And she was like, who cares how many times it was? Like, if you're gonna fight with me, get your facts right.

• 1:24:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:21Simon Sinek?

  Don't do that. Just let it be sex. It doesn't matter. I'm kind of that guy that once it gets the facts right, you know, it's like, I want it to be, because I feel like it's unfair. No, do not bring facts. It's unjust, though. No, do not bring facts to an emotional. You're the fairness guy, though. Do not bring. What if someone? It's nothing to do with fairness. It's about the other person feeling heard. You're getting, you're playing the wrong rules. I got that. Playing with the wrong rules. So do not bring facts to an emotional gunfight. Okay. Okay? Allow emotions. So I'll give you, I'll give you a real life example, okay? Of where I learned this. Or how it, one of the ways I applied this. I went to see a friend's performance. Uh, that she was in a, at a show. It was the worst thing I've ever seen in my entire life. And at the end of the show, I went and hung out in the lobby like all the friends and family.

• 1:25:04Simon Sinek?

  And she came out all jacked up on adrenaline, still in costume, still in makeup.

• 1:25:09Simon Sinek?

  She had a big smile on her face. She goes, what'd you think? She knows I'm an honest broker. She knows I'm not gonna lie to her. Now is not the time. Now is not the time. Hmm. So I said, but I can't lie. Yes. So I said, oh my God, I'm so sad, so proud of you. True. So this was so much fun for me to be able to see you do your thing for the first time. I've never seen you on stage before. Yeah, huh. True. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Kiss, kiss, kiss. And then goes off to the next person. Two days later, when all the adrenaline has calmed down and there's no more emotion. I said to her, hey, you asked me what I thought about the play. Can I tell you, can we talk about it? She goes, yeah, absolutely. And then I can say, eh, I thought the directing was a bit weak. I thought that thing. She's, and we can have a rational conversation about it. If I did it ahead in the moment. I would have hurt her feelings. Yeah, of course. For no reason whatsoever. Yeah. Right?

• 1:25:54Simon Sinek?

  Somebody gives you a gift. It's the ugliest sweater you've ever seen. They go, what do you think? You can't say it's ugly. You can't say it's ugly. You go, well, thank you so much for thinking of me. This is so unnecessary. Yeah, yeah. And then three days later, you go, hey. Do you have the gift receipt? Do you mind if I exchange it for something else? I'm not crazy about the color. They'd be like, yeah, totally fine. Yeah. So you can't bring facts to an emotional gunfight. You meet emotion with emotion. You meet facts with facts. And sometimes if somebody's in an emotional state, if you're not, you have to allow them to be in the emotional state, which means you have to hold space. Yeah. And it sounds ooey gooey, sort of hippie dippy. Yeah. Hold space. All it means is allow the emotions to be heard. That's all they want is to feel, feel, not think. All they want to do is feel heard. So there's one really easy trick to do it.

• 1:26:38Simon Sinek?

  Whatever they're saying to you, and I've had this happen to me, I was having, uh, my girlfriend decided to tell me what she thought. And she was saying things that were untrue, made me super defensive, super defensive and really unfair. And I fought back a couple of times and it didn't work because it never does. Cause I'm bringing facts to an emotional gunfight and I should know better. So in my head, I said to myself, this is her story. Her story doesn't have to be true. Your job is to listen to her story. I literally said it and she would say things that really like made me, they triggered me. And I would say to myself, this is her story. Her story doesn't have to be true.

• 1:27:24Simon Sinek?

  Your job is to listen to her story. And I sat there and I would, I would nod and I'd say, tell me more, go on, what else? And I acted, I, I, I, I listened to a story that I, I removed myself from one of the, as one of the. Yeah, so hard to do. She was, as if she was telling, talking about somebody else. And I just let her get it all out. And I affirmed, I said, yeah, uh huh, I hear that. I hear, I hear that that hurt. Tell me more, what else? Go on. Tell me more, what else? Go on, this is her story. Her story doesn't have to be true. My job is to listen to her story. And at the end, she goes, thank you, thank you. I probably overstated some of those things. I know you've, you've been struggling and I know you've been overworked and that's probably, and she gave me all the passes. I didn't have to say, what are you talking about? I've been stressed out of my mind. How can you?

• 1:28:10Simon Sinek?

  Cause I'm not listening to her, right? Yes. And so this is how we resolve conflict. Conflict resolution is not efficient. And what I've learned is that it gets more and more efficient over time. Because you get really good. You get really good at making somebody feel heard really quickly. And you get really good at backing away really quickly. And you get really good at understanding that if their response is above a five, it's probably about something else. You always leave the cap off the toothpaste. It's not about the toothpaste. You get really good about not having a whole fight to find out it wasn't about the toothpaste. Cause that's usually why it's inefficient. You'd fight first, then you'd realize it's not about the toothpaste. And that's what takes four hours.

• 1:28:52Simon Sinek?

  What happens is you recognize that when somebody yells at you about the cap on the toothpaste, you go, babe, what's the matter? What's going on? And you let them say whatever they need to say about the cap on the toothpaste. And you know, it's not about the toothpaste. You just need to let them get it out so they can get to the thing that it's actually about. For you to take accountability for your actions. And that's the other thing. You have to take accountability for your actions. Saying you're sorry doesn't mean you're wrong. Saying you're sorry means you take accountability for the thing that you said or did.

• 1:29:19Lewis Howes?

  That hurt them.

• 1:29:20Simon Sinek?

  That hurt them.

• 1:29:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:21Simon Sinek?

  The analogy is you're walking through the airport with your wheelie bag. And you accidentally roll your wheelie bag over somebody's foot. You turn around, you immediately go, sorry. You didn't intend to. But it's your bag. So you say sorry. Can you imagine if you rolled your bag over someone's foot? And they go, what up? And you go, what? I didn't do it on purpose. They're like, you roll over my foot. You're like, I didn't do it on purpose. That's how we fight with our loved ones. We say something that hurts them. We rolled our bag over their foot. And they go, why won't you say you're sorry? You're like, I didn't do it on purpose. Why would I need to apologize? Cause it's your words. Cause it's your actions. Cause it's your wheelie bag. You didn't do it on purpose. Still your words, still your actions, still hurt their foot.

• 1:30:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:02Simon Sinek?

  Still hurt their feelings. So accountability is built into it. Anyway, you get all those.

• 1:30:06Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent. Hundred percent, yeah. People want to learn more. You've got, what do you got in your skills courses right now? Because I think this is where you thrive. Is giving people human skills to be better humans.

• 1:30:17Simon Sinek?

  That's the goal. We are super, super focused on our learning platform where it's all about human skills. You know, we're not going to teach you how to get an MBA or anything. Like it's none of that stuff.

• 1:30:24Lewis Howes?

  This is the lost art. This is the art that helps you become successful in life.

• 1:30:28Simon Sinek?

  The art of being a human being. And you know, cats don't have to work very hard to be cats. And that's just natural. But it turns out it's a lot of work to be a good human being.

• 1:30:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:35Simon Sinek?

  To be good at being a human being is really like, it's not natural. We're kind of junk at it and you have to study it. Conflict resolution is essential in a relationship. But what if you don't know how to resolve a conflict? Have you never been taught?

• 1:30:47Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 1:30:48Simon Sinek?

  And so listening, conflict resolution, how to give and receive feedback. These are all skills. How to, how to lead others. You know, these are all skills. How to, these are all skills that, that we have on our website and continue to add to that skillset.

• 1:31:01Lewis Howes?

  That's great.

• 1:31:01Simon Sinek?

  And it's a lot of the stuff is, you know, the, the way we come up with a lot of the classes is like, somebody on the team is like, I need to learn this.

• 1:31:08Lewis Howes?

  And you're like, let's create it.

• 1:31:10Simon Sinek?

  We'll build it.

• 1:31:10Lewis Howes?

  Let's create it.

• 1:31:11Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:11Lewis Howes?

  Uh, it's all at simonstennett.com. All the, all the courses, the podcasts. You've got a great podcast as well. A bit of optimism. People can check that out. Those are the main things you're working on these days right now.

• 1:31:22Simon Sinek?

  Bit of optimism podcast. That's the thing. Website. That's the thing. I also have a, I also am a publisher.

• 1:31:29Lewis Howes?

  Oh, I saw that too.

• 1:31:30Simon Sinek?

  Yeah. So I have, I have a deal with Penguin Books and my last book that we published was a book called Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Gadera, which is spectacular.

• 1:31:39Lewis Howes?

  Is this the restaurateur?

• 1:31:40Simon Sinek?

  Yes.

• 1:31:41Lewis Howes?

  Out of New York?

• 1:31:42Simon Sinek?

  Yes. He used to own 11 Madison Park, which was the number one restaurant in the world.

• 1:31:45Lewis Howes?

  He published that book. That's great.

• 1:31:46Simon Sinek?

  And the book has nothing, well, it is, I mean, it's not about how to start a restaurant.

• 1:31:50Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 1:31:50Simon Sinek?

  How to treat people.

• 1:31:51Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 1:31:51Simon Sinek?

  You should have Will on. He's

• 1:31:52Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting.

• 1:31:53Simon Sinek?

  He is a frickin' rock star.

• 1:31:54Lewis Howes?

  I want to check that out. I've heard about that guy and my ear is awesome. My ear is awesome.

• 1:31:58Simon Sinek?

  He's amazing and his book is amazing.

• 1:31:59Lewis Howes?

  What's the book called again?

• 1:32:00Simon Sinek?

  Unreasonable Hospitality. Super, super proud to be the publisher.

• 1:32:02Lewis Howes?

  Heard about that book. Yeah. That's, that's done really well. I'm going to check that out.

• 1:32:07Lewis Howes?

  How else can we be of service to you today, my man?

• 1:32:09Simon Sinek?

  I mean, you give me a platform to, to wax philosophical. I always like coming on here.

• 1:32:13Lewis Howes?

  I love it.

• 1:32:13Simon Sinek?

  I always like coming in here. Our conversation always goes in a very unexpected direction.

• 1:32:17Lewis Howes?

  It's fun, man.

• 1:32:17Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, we do have a lot of fun. So thanks very much.

• 1:32:19Lewis Howes?

  We'll have to do it when the next book is out. I'm sure we'll be back on. So.

• 1:32:22Simon Sinek?

  Do it. Come back.

• 1:32:23Lewis Howes?

  So make sure people check you out. Check out the courses. I think you're one of the best at teaching this stuff.

• 1:32:29Lewis Howes?

  Podcast obviously is free, but other than that, Simon, my man, appreciate you as always.

• 1:32:32Simon Sinek?

  Thanks. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

• 1:32:34Lewis Howes?

  I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment, moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to the next episode on the School of Greatness.

• 1:33:15Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

• 1:33:59Lewis Howes?

  And now it's time to go out there and do something great.