511 - They'll All Pay

This week, Georgia covers the story of Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding. For our sources, please visit https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode. Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Watch full episodes of My Favorite Murder on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@my_favorite_murder Send your hometown stories to [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Join the Fan Cult to access ad-free episodes of My Favorite Murder. Members also receive merch store discounts, exclusive audio and video content and more! Visit www.fancult.supercast.com http://www.fancult.supercast.com/ to join. Shop for My Favorite Murder and other Exactly Right merchandise here: www.exactlyrightstore.com http://www.exactlyrightstore.com/. Rate, review and follow My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Karen Kilgariff?

  This is exactly right.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 0:34Speaker 02

  In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it. This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences. Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

• 1:10Georgia Hardstark?

  You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.

• 1:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.

• 1:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals, it's designed to relax and prepare you for a night of rest.

• 1:21Karen Kilgariff?

  If you need a reset after your day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine.

• 1:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Generously spritz each foot before bed and you'll be all set. I've actually started doing this and I'm obsessed with magnesium. It does everything.

• 1:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Something like this is just like, it's simple, it's easy, and it actually works.

• 1:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. For wellness you can feel, find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle. Goodbye.

• 1:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello and welcome.

• 2:01Georgia Hardstark?

  To my favorite murder.

• 2:03Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Georgia Hardstark.

• 2:04Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Karen Kilgariff.

• 2:05Karen Kilgariff?

  And this is.

• 2:12Georgia Hardstark?

  I just had caffeine, so I'm ready to fucking go.

• 2:16Karen Kilgariff?

  We are about to start our senior honor choir and you are going to be the subject of it.

• 2:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Happy holidays, everyone.

• 2:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Are you having fun?

• 2:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Are you stuck at the house you grew up in with the people you grew up with?

• 2:30Karen Kilgariff?

  What kind of quilt is on you right now? Is it, did your great aunt make it for you?

• 2:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Has it ever been washed?

• 2:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Is it the cat's favorite quilt?

• 2:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Does it smell like cat pee?

• 2:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 2:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, it does.

• 2:41Karen Kilgariff?

  That means it's Christmas.

• 2:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you ever have that when someone comes over and they like cuddle up with a pillow and you don't want to say anything like, that's the dog's pillow? Does that rabbit? Oh, my God, that happens all the time to me.

• 2:51Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, it's funny, is I just hope no one ever goes and sits down on my couch like independently because I'm like, you're not gonna, you're just gonna get.

• 2:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Essentially is what you're saying.

• 2:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Hair all over yourself. I mean, you can.

• 3:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, that's exactly where she puts her butthole. But I can't tell you that now.

• 3:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Because you're putting your butthole there.

• 3:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Stop putting your butthole on my dog's butt.

• 3:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus Christ.

• 3:14Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the theme for this holiday season.

• 3:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Amen. Stop it.

• 3:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 3:21Georgia Hardstark?

  We do have, speaking of holiday season, we like asked people how they were giving back.

• 3:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, and you've got some anecdotes?

• 3:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I do, because we're doing our December donation thing and I have a funny one, if you want to hear it.

• 3:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, please.

• 3:33Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm giving back this season, a whole lot of Catholic daughter shit. I usually try to do my holiday giving to strangers, folks with deep needs I've never faced, but this year I find those closest to me need a hand in ways only someone close is really equipped for. I'm the never married, childless adult daughter in my family and we're all entering the holiday season for the first time without my dad, who died just after New Year's 2025.

• 3:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry.

• 3:58Georgia Hardstark?

  My mom's 80, frail and alone for the first time since a one year period in the early 70s, between her leaving the convent and meeting.

• 4:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Convent?

• 4:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Between leaving the convent.

• 4:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 4:09Georgia Hardstark?

  And meeting my dad on a beach in New Jersey. Can we just leave in convent because I want her to have actually been a Satan worshiper.

• 4:17Karen Kilgariff?

  She covets that story. Okay, so the nun left the convent, went to the beach and picked up a man.

• 4:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 4:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I love it. And never left his side.

• 4:26Georgia Hardstark?

  No. My sister has a years-long immune condition that can make chasing after her grammar school-aged little boys a real uphill climb. So, my spring, summer, and holiday giving isn't shifts at a food bank or checks to charities. It's lugging in the cat litter for mom's pets, sorting her recyclables every week, and joining her for an occasional menthol light on kitchen stools by the window while we watch Wheel of Fortune.

• 4:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's amazing. That is the dream.

• 4:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Or figure skating competitions.

• 4:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 4:54Georgia Hardstark?

  It's listening to my nephew's bitch about the nature walks I march them on, let my sister nap in the afternoon, and my stumbling through impenetrably complex Pokemon battles so she can go out and get a massage.

• 5:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 5:06Georgia Hardstark?

  I can mope a little like I'm the Cinderella in all this, but your question about how we're all getting back allows me to make the case I may actually be more like a luminous angel or Tinker Bell in all of this.

• 5:16Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 5:17Georgia Hardstark?

  At least that's how I'll think about it next time I kneel down scooping a cat box for someone I love, E. in Oregon.

• 5:24Karen Kilgariff?

  E., what a beautiful... Thank you for sending that in, and what a beautiful sentiment.

• 5:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Because that is everything to the people you love the most.

• 5:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 5:33Karen Kilgariff?

  So, what a donation to give.

• 5:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. There's always something you could do, even if you don't think you have the means.

• 5:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. For example, when I'm home with my father over the holidays, and I get myself a coffee from usually Pete's Coffee downtown.

• 5:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Have it delivered to the house because it's seven in the morning. I'll get him a lemon loaf.

• 5:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, Karen.

• 5:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I get him a lemon loaf.

• 5:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 5:55Karen Kilgariff?

  I won't make him get his own.

• 5:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Just for Christmas or the whole year?

• 5:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Just for Christmas.

• 6:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, God, yeah, okay, don't go.

• 6:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Because you don't want to spoil him.

• 6:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, calm down. Calm down, Jim.

• 6:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Dad, that's your lemon loaf, so I don't know what else you want from me.

• 6:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Did I tell you that, uh, did I tell you on this podcast, really the only time that counts?

• 6:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 6:16Karen Kilgariff?

  That when I came home from Thanksgiving, when I drove home, it was 12 hours in the car.

• 6:20Georgia Hardstark?

  You did, we talked about it.

• 6:21Karen Kilgariff?

  God damn.

• 6:22Georgia Hardstark?

  It was, I've, I talked about it with Vince, like, it was so hard to hear, so we, like, we discussed it.

• 6:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I drove back down and then back up.

• 6:30Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I know.

• 6:31Karen Kilgariff?

  I just still can't get over it, but also nothing else has happened to me since that, since that time. I've really, really taken it easy.

• 6:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Actually, that's a good segue. I have a podcast in case you're driving 12 hours.

• 6:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, perfect.

• 6:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Or you want to leave your life for a minute in your head. I binged this podcast in 26 hours. It's 10 episodes and I binged it within a little over a day.

• 6:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh shit.

• 6:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Because it was so fucking good.

• 6:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 6:54Georgia Hardstark?

  It's called Beth's Dead. So my friend Elizabeth Lame, she's been a podcaster since 2010. So she's like, oh gee, has always done it with her husband Andy Rosen. She's the sweetest person and they stopped podcasting suddenly out of nowhere because they had a really awful experience with a listener.

• 7:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh no.

• 7:14Georgia Hardstark?

  And so they told their friend Monica Padman from Armchair Expert about it. And Monica, as podcasters do, said, let's make a podcast about it.

• 7:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 7:23Georgia Hardstark?

  So it's 10 episodes called Beth's Dead about, they had to quit podcasting because they were so afraid for their lives. But the whole podcast, it's almost like they're opening it back up and looking into it. And Monica's kind of leading them along the way to like, find out what happened.

• 7:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 7:40Georgia Hardstark?

  It does not end the way you think it's going to end. It's actually kind of heartwarming.

• 7:44Karen Kilgariff?

  What, really?

• 7:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. I mean, I don't want to spoil it, but I'll use the term catfishing and I'll just throw it out there because I know you love a good catfishing story.

• 7:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I think it's from being too old to be on like the apps and really a part of the, the real social part of the internet.

• 8:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you have FOMO of being catfished?

• 8:04Karen Kilgariff?

  A little bit. I just never, I wasn't picked even to be catfished. They didn't know how to get a hold of me.

• 8:12Georgia Hardstark?

  You're such a pick me girl when it comes to catfishing.

• 8:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I really am, I really am. Wait, I'm trying to, okay, I'm following that now.

• 8:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, Beth's dead.

• 8:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Love it.

• 8:19Georgia Hardstark?

  You just can't put it down, put it down, yeah.

• 8:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Put it down of, of your ears. I, that's a really cool one too, because it's like, it deserves to be explained or like gone into.

• 8:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 8:29Karen Kilgariff?

  But you know, they say like, well, and I don't know anything about it, but it's like, usually you're not supposed to give those things air.

• 8:36Georgia Hardstark?

  And they made a whole fucking series about it. But it's also like explores parasocial relationships. So she was like telling me that I should listen just as like a cautionary tale, really.

• 8:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 8:45Georgia Hardstark?

  I do all of it wrong.

• 8:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. I mean, it's so hard.

• 8:47Georgia Hardstark?

  It is.

• 8:48Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, it isn't the same as, I don't know. It's just such a weird, different time. It's like, there, there need to be updated rules for this time.

• 8:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely. And it was 2015. So she kind of, and she's such a sweetheart, she didn't really.

• 9:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 9:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Know.

• 9:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 9:02Georgia Hardstark?

  That the relationship isn't what you think it's gonna be. And it's fucking gnarly.

• 9:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. We all have to listen to Beth's dead.

• 9:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 9:08Karen Kilgariff?

  And really process some stuff.

• 9:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 9:10Karen Kilgariff?

  All right. Well, I got reminded by our writer Allison and our producer Molly as a fun news update for the Parley overpass, which was featured, and I talked about it in episode 250, Look Who's Passing, which later became an MFM animated Claire the Bossy Deer.

• 9:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 9:30Karen Kilgariff?

  And it was all about that they built this overpass so that animals could basically not be in the road anymore. And Utah State University, because it, it happened in Utah, the Division of Wildlife Resources and Transportation, I guess.

• 9:46Georgia Hardstark?

  God, love them.

• 9:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. Love their work.

• 9:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Love their work.

• 9:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, those bitches are so real.

• 9:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Iconic.

• 9:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, but basically, the overpass is going so good, 77% reduction in wildlife vehicle collisions.

• 10:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 10:03Karen Kilgariff?

  A $15 million cost benefit over the bridge's lifetime. And their favorite finding is moose successfully crossed 100% of the time. You never missed a moose.

• 10:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Because the moose will kill you if you fucking hit it with your car, too.

• 10:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, that's deadly.

• 10:19Karen Kilgariff?

  It is.

• 10:20Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not like.

• 10:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, no.

• 10:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Running over a squirrel. Not that I'm condoning that, but like.

• 10:24Karen Kilgariff?

  No. Although they, they can be pretty aggressive sometimes.

• 10:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's be honest.

• 10:29Karen Kilgariff?

  What if I wanted that acorn? You didn't even ask me. It's my front yard.

• 10:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. There's a dead squirrel rotting in our backyard and we're not doing anything about it.

• 10:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 10:38Georgia Hardstark?

  I have a lot of like animal stories from my backyard.

• 10:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it sounds like a palatial gorgeous tropical jungle.

• 10:45Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not.

• 10:47Karen Kilgariff?

  But a lot happens in there. Should we do our network highlights?

• 10:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, so we have a podcast network and this holiday season, we'd love for you to listen to some podcasts on it.

• 10:58Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. So while we have you here, just a quick reminder, our newest podcast, Brief Recession, a legal podcast with Michael Foot and Melissa Malbranche, which by the way, such a delightful, you want to talk about parasocial relationship. I just want to hang out and talk to those guys. Or listen to them talking all day long.

• 11:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Seriously.

• 11:16Karen Kilgariff?

  It's if you haven't listened to it, it kind of has a little bit of everything. They're addressing these horrifying things that are happening in our world right now.

• 11:26Georgia Hardstark?

  But it was light in a lighthearted way.

• 11:27Karen Kilgariff?

  But also.

• 11:28Georgia Hardstark?

  But also a call to action.

• 11:29Karen Kilgariff?

  But a call to action, but then slay boots down all the things you want.

• 11:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 11:35Karen Kilgariff?

  But just to remind you, they are on YouTube because it is a podcast, but it's a video podcast as well. So every single episode comes out on video. You can watch Michael and Melissa as well as listen to them. So please go over to their YouTube page, youtube.com slash at Brief Recession and like, subscribe, interact, do all the things that let people know that you like something, but also enjoy a video podcast.

• 12:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 12:01Karen Kilgariff?

  It's the future.

• 12:02Georgia Hardstark?

  You're so young and with it. And if you're craving more content over the holidays, now is the time to join the fan cult at fancult.supercast.com. You'll get every episode of My Favorite Murder ad free plus exclusive audio and video, so much video, content and more.

• 12:20Karen Kilgariff?

  And if that doesn't satisfy you, then follow My Favorite Murder on Instagram and on TikTok. We're on TikTok too. And make sure you don't miss any of our clips or our polls or our special announcements and all the other things that we have over there.

• 12:32Georgia Hardstark?

  We've been blowing up social media lately because Shannon, our social media manager, has been just fucking working her butt off and killing it.

• 12:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Shannon McAnally.

• 12:42Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. Please, please follow us.

• 12:44Karen Kilgariff?

  She's a legend.

• 12:45Georgia Hardstark?

  And for our last minute holiday shoppers, don't worry, we've got you. The Exactly Right Store has easy gift options that don't require express shipping. Head to exactlyrightstore.com to shop gift cards or sign up for the fan cult for someone you love at fancult.supercast.com.

• 13:01Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 13:01Georgia Hardstark?

  What a great gift.

• 13:02Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a really good gift and you can get subscriptions for three, six, or 12 months, depending on how much you like the person you're buying it for.

• 13:09Georgia Hardstark?

  And like, how long it's gonna be in my life? I don't know. So let's just try three months.

• 13:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, just do three months and see how you do, how I decide you do.

• 13:16Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 13:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, also, it's time for another December donation.

• 13:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah. I like this part.

• 13:22Karen Kilgariff?

  This is very fun. Every December, we like to spend the month giving to groups doing life-changing work here in the United States and, of course, around the world.

• 13:30Georgia Hardstark?

  So today, we're donating $10,000 to World Central Kitchen, led by Chef Jose Andres. They provide meals to communities in crisis, getting food to people quickly after natural disasters, conflicts, and humanitarian emergencies.

• 13:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Their mission is to use the power of food to heal, support, and rebuild communities when they need it the most.

• 13:48Georgia Hardstark?

  In 2024, World Central Kitchen supported families impacted by conflict and disasters in 20 countries, providing over 109 million meals. So if you'd like to join us in supporting their work, head to wck.org.

• 14:02Karen Kilgariff?

  And if donating isn't your thing right now, you can also explore volunteer opportunities at wck.org/volunteer.

• 14:10Georgia Hardstark?

  So yay, December donations.

• 14:14Speaker 05

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• 14:44Georgia Hardstark?

  As an adult, making dinner isn't the hard part.

• 14:46Karen Kilgariff?

  The hard part is deciding what to make every single night for the rest of your life.

• 14:50Georgia Hardstark?

  But with Hungry Root, you can make that decision a whole lot easier.

• 14:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Hungry Root is like having your own personal shopper and nutritionist all wrapped up into one. They'll take care of weekly grocery shopping and recommend groceries and meals tailored to you.

• 15:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Once you tell them about your goals and preferences, they fill your cart with personalized recommendations. And those recommendations get smarter as Hungry Root learns more about what you did or didn't like.

• 15:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Most of Hungry Root's recipes can be made in just 15 minutes or less. I mean, of course, it's always great to have delicious and very healthy groceries delivered to your house, which they can do. But I love the fact that Hungry Root will also just make you dinner so you can have it sitting there waiting. They make a classic chicken, corn, and Mexican rice bowl, and they have all kinds of variations on those themes. So that's one that I love to reach for. And all these options so you're getting really healthy meals.

• 15:39Georgia Hardstark?

  For a limited time, get 40% off your first order plus get a free item in every box for life.

• 15:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to hungryroot.com/mfm and use code MFM.

• 15:47Georgia Hardstark?

  That's hungryroot.com/mfm, code MFM, to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Goodbye.

• 15:56Karen Kilgariff?

  We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.

• 16:01Georgia Hardstark?

  You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork and trying to figure out who to call.

• 16:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.

• 16:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.

• 16:20Karen Kilgariff?

  That's why there's Solis Health.

• 16:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Solis provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.

• 16:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.

• 16:33Georgia Hardstark?

  They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.

• 16:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.

• 16:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocacy improves outcomes. And Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.

• 16:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Eligibility varies by insurance plan.

• 16:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice or services must be 18 years or older.

• 16:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.

• 16:59Georgia Hardstark?

  It takes about two minutes and it's covered by insurance.

• 17:02Karen Kilgariff?

  That's S.O.L.A.C.E. health.com/murder.

• 17:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 17:07Karen Kilgariff?

  You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.

• 17:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.

• 17:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals powered by pure Epsom salt and natural Dead Sea salt, it's designed to help you relax and get in the right state of mind for a good night's rest.

• 17:23Georgia Hardstark?

  If you need a reset after a crazy day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine. It's an effortless way to get a boost of topical magnesium that can help you relax your body and mind before bedtime.

• 17:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Dr. Teal's magnesium spray comes in a lightweight, fast drying formula.

• 17:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Just shake it up and generously spritz onto the soles of your feet and massage until absorbed.

• 17:42Karen Kilgariff?

  I was kind of blown away the first time I used this spray because I do have problems sleeping and when there's something this simple, you just sprayed on your feet and suddenly you're asleep and the next morning you're like, wait, what happened? Did my problem just get solved? Like, it actually is that easy.

• 17:57Georgia Hardstark?

  And your stinky feet now smell like lavender. Like, what more do you want?

• 18:00Karen Kilgariff?

  How dare you call my feet stinky?

• 18:03Georgia Hardstark?

  For wellness, you can feel, find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle.

• 18:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 18:11Karen Kilgariff?

  All right, well, now it is a solo show. Time for you to do your Christmas thing.

• 18:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, and this story is just so into the holiday spirit.

• 18:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 18:22Georgia Hardstark?

  No, it's not.

• 18:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 18:24Georgia Hardstark?

  But it's good.

• 18:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 18:27Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's fun and I'm excited to tell you about it.

• 18:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 18:30Georgia Hardstark?

  But you're going to know about it because this is a story that if you were alive and at least semi-conscious during the 90s, you vividly remember this story. It was a huge media sensation, the way only 90s media could do, tactless and vulgar and in your fucking face constantly.

• 18:49Karen Kilgariff?

  When they banned smoking?

• 18:50Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 18:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Now we know what was important to you.

• 18:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Tell a whole story about. I just remember being like, it's never gonna work.

• 18:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 18:59Karen Kilgariff?

  No one's ever gonna do this.

• 19:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Smoking or non, in Cocos, you have to.

• 19:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Cocos at 2 a.m.

• 19:06Georgia Hardstark?

  We used to smoke in Denny's. That's what, that's the new question of how old are you? No. Have you ever had a cigarette in Denny's?

• 19:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 19:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 19:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 19:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. No.

• 19:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 19:17Georgia Hardstark?

  So it's January 6th, 1994, and it will be the country's most infamous January 6th for the next 17 years.

• 19:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm. Then there'll be one that you can't beat.

• 19:27Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. We're at the Kobo Arena in Detroit, Michigan.

• 19:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 19:30Georgia Hardstark?

  A day before the U.S. Figure Skating Championships. And we all know what's about to happen.

• 19:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, we do.

• 19:38Georgia Hardstark?

  This is the story of Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding.

• 19:42Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, God, this is crazy.

• 19:44Georgia Hardstark?

  It was such a wild, like, story. It was huge. And it was on the cover of, like, every magazine. People wouldn't shut up about it.

• 19:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 19:55Georgia Hardstark?

  It was one of the biggest fucking stories of the 90s. So.

• 19:58Karen Kilgariff?

  So good.

• 19:58Georgia Hardstark?

  If you don't know about it yet, you should. The main sources for the story are an essay in The Believer by Sarah Marshall, and she actually hosts the podcast You're Wrong About, which is super good.

• 20:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah, that's a good podcast.

• 20:08Georgia Hardstark?

  And the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary called The Price of Gold.

• 20:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Remember when I called it 30 by 30 and everyone got mad?

• 20:15Georgia Hardstark?

  No one got mad.

• 20:16Karen Kilgariff?

  I just love how often we, I've done that. We're just like, you know, on 30 by 30, and people are like, it's 30 for 30. Just like, we're like, we did a whole thank you of when we were in People Magazine and, like, we shared a page with some band and I said the name wrong.

• 20:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 20:33Karen Kilgariff?

  People are like, it's actually Bandit Foot. No, okay.

• 20:36Georgia Hardstark?

  My Favorite Murder. We're gonna get it wrong.

• 20:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 20:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Essentially.

• 20:40Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 20:41Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, so we all know this part, I think. There's some people that weren't born for, like, 10 years when this.

• 20:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, just like lately, with the way things are going, remind us of the good times.

• 20:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. I was thinking about it, and it's like, there's poss, there's a possibility, a lot of listeners who hadn't been born yet, but is it possible that some listeners' parents hadn't been born yet?

• 21:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Let's not talk about that.

• 21:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Babies having babies. All right.

• 21:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Babies.

• 21:08Georgia Hardstark?

  So Nancy Kerrigan is practicing her routine for the US Championships. Nancy, along with several other American skaters, most notably Tonya Harding, is vying for a spot on the Olympic team. She'll need to place first at this championship, or maybe second, in order to go. So it's a big deal. Now Nancy is America's sweetheart in the only way Olympic hopefuls can be. Like, it's just such a thing that we put on them of like, we need you to be perfect and represent our country exactly how we want you to.

• 21:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 21:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Seems like a lot of pressure.

• 21:40Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a lot of pressure. And also, especially in ice skating, I think there's not a lot of people that can do it unless they have money.

• 21:46Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 21:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 21:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes. So Nancy is pretty and elegant, and she's talented but humble, and is the quintessential ice princess that the public and ice skating judges root for. So she is that quintessential beautiful ice skater. A camera crew is in the rink filming her practice. When she finishes, Nancy walks off the ice and disappears through a black curtain to walk through a hallway to the locker rooms. Her coaches, Evy and Mary Scottbold, who are married, are nearby, finishing up a conversation with some friends, and then they're going to follow Nancy out to the locker rooms. But before they can do that, they hear a blood-curling shriek coming from the hallway. They run through the curtain to see Nancy crumpled in a heap on the ground. I mean, I'll never forget this video.

• 22:32Georgia Hardstark?

  I'll never forget the sound of her voice.

• 22:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 22:34Georgia Hardstark?

  She's gripping her knee and sobbing, and the camera crew runs out to, they start roaming. And the video of Nancy on the floor in her pretty white costume, bawling, will become infamous, particularly that she's yelling over and over again, desperately asking, "Why? Why? Why?" I'll never forget it.

• 22:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 22:55Georgia Hardstark?

  It was just...

• 22:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Why? Why would anything bad happen to me?

• 22:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Is that how you take it? Oh, my god!

• 23:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, here's the thing. As you were saying that, and I've never thought about this before, I'm like... Well, of course, because it's the Olympics. There's camera crews everywhere, but it is so like weirdly perfect. The idea that they did this there.

• 23:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 23:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Where everything, even back then, would be recorded and

• 23:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 23:20Karen Kilgariff?

  like found out is it's such a crazy plan.

• 23:23Georgia Hardstark?

  It's really stupid. It's a stupid plan and it falls apart quickly. But it's funny that like, so we all have preconceived notion of this story. Like Nancy is the victim, but we don't like her for whatever reason. Tanya, you know, you're on her side for some reason, even though she's very unlikable in a lot of ways, and it's really hard to root for her, especially like in her own interviews.

• 23:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 23:45Georgia Hardstark?

  But, you know, it's been shaped by the media, our view.

• 23:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, we've all been raised to hate women so much that we can figure out a way to hate any woman. You don't have to cheat. You can be the victim. You could be the perpetrator. You could be whatever. And that's how we do it to women. Whereas like, there'll be some dude standing there and you're just like, I don't know. He's fine. You're like, I hate her.

• 24:07Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't like the way she was crying over being hit in the fucking knee.

• 24:11Karen Kilgariff?

  I didn't like the way she was wailing in pain.

• 24:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 24:14Karen Kilgariff?

  That bothers me.

• 24:15Georgia Hardstark?

  It's stuck up, the way she was wailing in pain. So yeah, so it's fucked up. And she's just purely an innocent victim. She won't give a lot of interviews about this. She just tries to move on with her life. So we kind of don't have.

• 24:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Can you imagine how many times they've asked her about it? Just like for 50 years.

• 24:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. It wasn't 50 years.

• 24:32Karen Kilgariff?

  No, it feels like it though.

• 24:34Georgia Hardstark?

  30, 30. So it comes out that a large, unknown man in a leather jacket has just snuck up out of nowhere and whacked her one time in the leg with a long metal object. And Evy Scottfold, the husband in the husband and wife coach team that coaches Nancy, looks up to see this man crashing through a locked glass door of the arena.

• 24:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 24:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Like it's locked. So have you seen the movie, I, Tanya?

• 24:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I have, but I don't remember this part.

• 25:00Georgia Hardstark?

  He, I don't know if this actually happens, but in the movie, he smashes his forehead through the glass because the door is like bolted shut or locked shut. But we don't, I don't know if that happened, but somehow he smashes the window and like bolts out the, so first of all, like not subtle dude.

• 25:14Karen Kilgariff?

  You planned this sir.

• 25:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Plan an exit.

• 25:16Karen Kilgariff?

  You plan an exit that's not chained and locked.

• 25:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 25:20Karen Kilgariff?

  And also it's the Olympics, so you're not going to have the easiest ins and outs.

• 25:23Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 25:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Around the practice area.

• 25:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. So everyone looks for him and no one can find him and they try to chase him, but they lose him. But still, Evy will wind up saying to his wife, Mary, that night, and it surprises her that he suspects Nancy's main competitor, Tonya Harding, has something to do with the attack.

• 25:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, immediately.

• 25:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Immediately.

• 25:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Tonya and Nancy are both 24 years old and they both come from working class backgrounds on opposite sides of the country. So Nancy is born in 1969 and grows up in Stonem, Massachusetts. Her dad, Daniel, is a welder and her mom, Brenda, is a stay at home mom. And Brenda is legally blind, having lost most of her vision from a virus she got when Nancy was a baby.

• 26:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my God.

• 26:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So Nancy has two brothers who play hockey. And while the family's not at all wealthy, once Nancy shows an aptitude for figure skating around the time she's eight years old, they put everything into it. And as you said, professional ice skating is not fucking cheap. It's almost like horseback riding to me where it's just like, there's so many things you have to buy.

• 26:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 26:29Georgia Hardstark?

  You have to buy ice time, coat, like spend money to be on the ice, coaching, costumes.

• 26:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 26:36Georgia Hardstark?

  All of that shit.

• 26:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Those skates, we bought, me and Laura bought Nora, because Nora got into ice skating. It was really cute. She was pretty good at it. But we bought her for Christmas, the most beautiful pair of ice skates, and she grew out of them within like nine months. Like she needed another pair where I was like.

• 26:52Georgia Hardstark?

  How much were they?

• 26:53Karen Kilgariff?

  They're, I can't remember. I mean, but it was like that kind of thing where you're just like, oh, yeah, they're kids.

• 26:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 26:59Karen Kilgariff?

  And you, you have to do that over and over their whole career.

• 27:02Georgia Hardstark?

  My kid would sit at home.

• 27:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 27:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Nancy's dad at times works three jobs to afford Nancy's coaching, costumes and ice time. Why didn't they tell the story when it happened? Now I feel so guilty. No. I thought she was rich. She was not rich. I just assumed. She just, you know what she was rich in, which I think a lot of people don't give enough credit for is having a stable family. And that's a privilege in itself. And, you know, she had that and that's great and good for her. And it doesn't even seem like there was an actual rivalry between Tanya and Nancy. It was just that Nancy was her biggest competition. So Nancy had nothing to fucking do with this, really. Right. That's a very meaningful thing about the family thing. That's very true. Cause it was almost like, we're all gonna pitch in and make this happen. Right. Like, they all traveled together to her competitions, even her brothers.

• 27:49Georgia Hardstark?

  She stayed in the same hotel room with, with her parents. You know, it was just like, that, that I don't want to stay in a hotel room with my parents. No. And I never have. That's not fun at all. No. And at one point, her dad takes a job driving the Zamboni at the rink in exchange for Nancy's ice time. So they're dedicated. They don't have tremendous means, but it's clearly a very loving and very stable household. I feel so guilty. Good. That's what I'm trying to do. On the other side of the country, in Portland, Oregon, which it's like rural Portland, Oregon. This is not like Portland now. Hipster. It's not keep Portland weird. No. It's like you own a gun and you go hunting Portland, you know? And so there, Tonya Harding is born into tougher circumstances.

• 28:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Tanya's dad, Albert, works odd jobs and suffers from various health problems, which stop him from being able to work at times. Her mother, Lavanna, played by Alison Janney, epically, I mean. Unbelievable. So incredibly good in I, Tanya, that it's uncomfortable. Yeah. She works as a waitress and the family's home and financial situation is chaotic. Yeah. And then can I just say, like, some 30 years later, we're just now starting to learn about how chaos and poverty in childhood can lead to subsequent cognitive and social development issues, impair the development of executive function in children, it changes the child's brain structure even. Yeah. Which can lead to anxiety and difficulties with social skills, mental health issues, et cetera.

• 29:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Look it up and go to therapy, everyone. But and it's not an excuse. It's just kind of to say where her head was.

• 29:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 29:24Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 29:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 29:26Georgia Hardstark?

  So when Tanya's three years old, a new mall opens up nearby, and I want to say the name of it because I love it. It's the Clackamas Town Center. I don't know why. I fucking love that word.

• 29:34Karen Kilgariff?

  I've been there.

• 29:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Clackamas?

• 29:35Karen Kilgariff?

  They have an ice skating rink right in it.

• 29:37Georgia Hardstark?

  That's what I was gonna say.

• 29:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, I keep jumping here. I'm not trying to at all.

• 29:41Georgia Hardstark?

  You know this story probably better than I do. It has a skating rink right in the very center of it. And somehow Levana finds the money to get Tanya skating lessons. And it's clear from the very beginning that she is a supremely talented skater and athlete from three years old.

• 29:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I mean, that's the thing because Nora was good at it, too. She was at a friend's birthday party at the Charles Schultz Snoopy Ice Rink.

• 30:02Georgia Hardstark?

  And someone was like, hey.

• 30:04Karen Kilgariff?

  And they're just like, she's very good at this and likes it a lot. So my sister's like, I mean, it was, it's really fun, but the dedication. You have to sit in the most freezing room and just watch your kid spin in circles.

• 30:19Georgia Hardstark?

  I didn't even think about it for the parents. So it's just like, you're not in this.

• 30:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Especially California parents who are just like, I don't know, isn't it hot outside?

• 30:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, you're not like a lawn chair with a beer. It's like the worst possible. Fuck that. Like Nancy's parents, Levana does as much as she can to fund Tanya's skating, but it's harder for her. And she also puts a lot of pressure on Tanya, as we see in the movie. Most people seem to come to the conclusion that ice skating will be Tanya's only shot at a more comfortable life than the one she was born into. It's like this or nothing. And it seems like they share that with her, this growing child.

• 30:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 30:54Georgia Hardstark?

  That that's, this is it.

• 30:55Karen Kilgariff?

  You better get this done for us.

• 30:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And look how fucking hard your mom is working to make it happen. Just a lot of fucking pressure.

• 31:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Win, win.

• 31:04Georgia Hardstark?

  You have to win.

• 31:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Win.

• 31:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Or what am I spending my money on?

• 31:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. We're all sacrificing for you.

• 31:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly.

• 31:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Get out there. Now have fun with it.

• 31:11Georgia Hardstark?

  You're not smiling enough.

• 31:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Do your dance to wannabe starting something. I mean, Jesus Christ, what we do to children.

• 31:19Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 31:19Karen Kilgariff?

  This country is so crazy.

• 31:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, not me.

• 31:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Not me. Well, we did it to Nora a little bit.

• 31:24Georgia Hardstark?

  That's true.

• 31:25Karen Kilgariff?

  She got second place one time.

• 31:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 31:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I know, it was really exciting.

• 31:28Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I mean, the pressure part, I don't think we're, thankfully.

• 31:32Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the one benefit, usually, of not being, not being the people that have all those things.

• 31:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 31:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Is you get to sidestep a lot of that stuff.

• 31:40Georgia Hardstark?

  I think my parents were like, just get passing grades. And if you don't, that's okay too.

• 31:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 31:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Just go.

• 31:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Just go.

• 31:46Georgia Hardstark?

  And if you don't, just graduate high school. And they did.

• 31:50Karen Kilgariff?

  And you did, you gave them everything they asked for and more.

• 31:52Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right, no pressure. Okay, so even in real time, it's understood by Tanya's coaches and skating companions that her circumstances are extremely difficult and very different from the typical figure skater. When she's 11, her friend witnesses Lavanna hitting Tanya repeatedly in the rink's bathroom with a hairbrush, just being abusive.

• 32:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:12Georgia Hardstark?

  The friend is shocked and horrified by this and tells the coach that she wants to report Tanya's mom to CPS, this badass little 11-year-old.

• 32:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 32:20Georgia Hardstark?

  And the coach says that it would end Tanya's skating career forever if they reported her.

• 32:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 32:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is so sad, because it's like, maybe it would have made you have a better life, even though skating isn't involved in it anymore, you know what I mean?

• 32:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:37Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not that that always helps.

• 32:38Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, how much of the skating was her choice at that point?

• 32:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Yeah. A few years later, this friend actually winds up making like a little documentary about Tanya. By then, Tanya's 15, and she very frankly talks about her difficult home life. Tanya's mother participates in the documentary, and she's wearing a fur coat with a green parrot perched on her shoulder, just like in the movie. Later, Tanya will also say that she was sexually abused as a teenager by several people in her life, and it does seem like there could have been a lack of protection in the environment she grew up in. It doesn't, it's so hard because... You can't believe everything this woman says. But there are definitely parts of it that are true and you have to believe.

• 33:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 33:21Georgia Hardstark?

  So, you know, she's an unreliable narrator.

• 33:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, of course.

• 33:25Georgia Hardstark?

  But she's not lying about everything.

• 33:26Karen Kilgariff?

  No, and also, if you have the kind of mom that'll beat you with a brush in a bathroom in front of people,

• 33:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 33:32Karen Kilgariff?

  then there isn't a lot of protection going on. It's easy to say, this is definitely not happening. Could it be worse at home? Of course.

• 33:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So the part of ice skating that most appeals to Tanya is the athleticism. And we should talk about what she looked like for people who don't know. Like, she was just so quintessentially 90s.

• 33:49Karen Kilgariff?

  She looked like she burned her eyeliner with a match to get it moving

• 33:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 33:54Karen Kilgariff?

  on her eye. She had a very strong, she was like a redhead, but she had a very strong eye.

• 34:00Georgia Hardstark?

  But she'd also bleach her hair like 90s blonde.

• 34:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 34:04Georgia Hardstark?

  And like, the 90s was kind of still the 80s when it came to style. So think of that, like, big poofy bangs.

• 34:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Poofy, frizzy, big hair.

• 34:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 34:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 34:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Crimped and, you know.

• 34:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, but then she had, she looked like an Irish girl to me.

• 34:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, she definitely looked like the photo that you posted of yourself in high school. Like, you would have been friends with her.

• 34:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, absolutely.

• 34:23Georgia Hardstark?

  She would have been one of Karen's, like, smoking in the girls' bathroom friends.

• 34:26Karen Kilgariff?

  My mom would be like, I don't know if you should go to Tanya's.

• 34:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly, exactly.

• 34:31Karen Kilgariff?

  She definitely looks like she smelled like those menthol cigarettes we were talking about.

• 34:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 34:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 34:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Like a Kelly Bundy type. So she loves the athleticism of it. She can do the grace and the artistry, blah, blah, blah. But that's not what comes naturally to her. What comes naturally, what she wants to do is land the most difficult tricks possible. She kind of is a badass, not kind of, she's a badass in the sway of like, I, if I'm gonna do this, I want to be the fucking best at it and I want to do it, you know, in a way that no one else can.

• 34:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 35:00Georgia Hardstark?

  And I know everyone out there doesn't think I can do it, so I'm gonna fucking show them and then some. So no one can deny it.

• 35:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Such good revenge.

• 35:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, it's the, like, that's the best motivation is when someone's like, oh, you don't think I can do that?

• 35:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 35:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, let me go ahead and.

• 35:13Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm already brave enough to be able to ice skate, which I, like, I was watching hockey the other day and I'm just like, how are they doing this?

• 35:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I've ice skated maybe once or twice in my life and I.

• 35:25Karen Kilgariff?

  It's truly witchcraft. And then she's like, I'm not scared, not only not to ice skate, but like of anything. So here, I'll just do the thing that makes people cheer.

• 35:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And so the trick she wants to land to prove herself to everyone takes a huge amount of strength and power. And so as Tanya progresses on the ice skating circuit, this athleticism and power becomes her calling card. So remember back then, they used to always make fun of how big her thighs were. Like that was a big fucking joke, late night joke back then is how, because ice skaters are so slim and long and length, but they also have to be so fucking strong to lift their bodies off of the fucking ice and twirl it. Like that takes so much strength.

• 36:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 36:11Georgia Hardstark?

  But also don't look like it. It's just this like horrible thing that we did, we do to women of.

• 36:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Here's the rules. Now you also have to go backwards and in high heels type of stuff.

• 36:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. And so while she's known for these like athletic moves and she's like willing to try things that other ice skaters won't, Nancy becomes known for her grace and her spins and her elegant lines. So they're very different, but they are competitors directly. And it also seems like the judges are harder on Tanya because she doesn't quite fit that elegant mold of what a figure skater is supposed to be. There's a lot of, it's so fucked up. Like the amount of, the stuff I've been doing researching this makes me like angry. There's a lot of wiggle room and subjectivity in scoring ice skating. And it's fair to say that some of that subjectivity comes into play when the judges look at Tanya. For instance, she's criticized by a judge for her costume that she made herself because

• 37:05Georgia Hardstark?

  she can't afford the $5,000 one time, you know, competition outfit. It's that sort of thing. But she also does seem like a kind of rebel where she'll pick muse. She's like, she ice skates a wild thing and just like rock and roll she'll do. And like, they don't fucking like that.

• 37:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 37:21Georgia Hardstark?

  And so the scores are not technical completely. They're also just completely subjective.

• 37:26Karen Kilgariff?

  And I think there was a time. Where we all believed it was objective and so fair and all about scoring or whatever. And then it's like, and then if you tracked in any way, the Williams sisters coming into tennis.

• 37:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 37:38Karen Kilgariff?

  And the way there was always a problem and it was always a thing and just like, yeah, there was a lot of people in place there that are making, that are in charge of decision making and in charge of like the culture.

• 37:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 37:50Karen Kilgariff?

  The agreed upon culture.

• 37:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Like the deck is stacked against you. Yeah, I mean, it's fucked up. And so while Tanya has to scrap, so while Tanya has to scrap.

• 37:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Scrape up.

• 38:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Scrape up.

• 38:02Georgia Hardstark?

  And so while Tanya has to scrap for everything she gets, people just seem to want to give Nancy things. Thera Wang starts designing her costumes because she's such a fan. She gets lucrative endorsement deals. I totally remember the Campbell's soup commercial. Do you?

• 38:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, when she was like, she's actually on the ice?

• 38:20Georgia Hardstark?

  No, she's like sipping, closing her eyes and sipping some chicken noodle soup off the ice because she's cold. You know, it's cold on the ice and she just closes her eyes and.

• 38:29Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, she really did look like any girl that would be in Seventeen magazine.

• 38:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 38:34Karen Kilgariff?

  So it was like she had it all kind of there anyway.

• 38:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 38:37Karen Kilgariff?

  And I just, I just remember her high pony.

• 38:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, the curly hair, the high pony. She was really pretty. And I think that they also liked that she wasn't, it's such a contradiction. They liked that she wasn't this wealthy, you know, WASP who was like a princess. They liked that she was from lower, but not Tanya's, you know what I mean? You can do that, but you can't do it this way.

• 38:59Karen Kilgariff?

  You can be from the lower classes, but you have to be pretty while you do it.

• 39:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, and humble.

• 39:04Karen Kilgariff?

  You can't, you have to be thin.

• 39:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Thin and you have to be humble about it and not like think that you are owed anything. It's, yeah, it's just such a contradiction. She gets endorsements from Reebok. So when people tell this story, there's always this focus on Nancy being the beautiful ice princess and Tanya being the more ugly duckling with bad costumes and bad hair. It does seem like they're compared a lot. They're kind of each other's biggest competitors. But it doesn't seem like they have any animosity towards each other. And Nancy's doing nothing to antagonize Tanya. There's like, that story's overblown, that they have like a feud, because it's not even so. So when Tanya's 15 years old, she meets a 17-year-old mustachioed dude named Jeff Galouli. He's played by Sebastian Stan.

• 39:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, a classic.

• 39:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Classic. And they fall in love. It's her first ever boyfriend, because she's, all she does is skate.

• 39:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 39:59Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 39:59Karen Kilgariff?

  And get yelled at by her mother.

• 40:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, and she had dropped out of high school so she could skate. Like, there's just nothing else in her life. So she meets this older guy, and he has a car, and he's a job, and she's like smitten completely by him immediately.

• 40:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, when you're 15, sorry to interrupt, but when you're 15, doesn't it feel like that's when you fall in love the hardest of your whole life?

• 40:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my god.

• 40:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, you kind of truly lose your mind.

• 40:21Georgia Hardstark?

  The hormones, the like, everything, oh, god, no, it's

• 40:26Karen Kilgariff?

  It's bad.

• 40:27Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so bad. It's like soul-crushing, because you think it's the most important thing. And it is the most important thing in the world at that moment.

• 40:32Karen Kilgariff?

  But it's the most important thing that you're doing with Jeff Galouli. So, and no one can convince you otherwise.

• 40:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 40:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 40:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my god.

• 40:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 40:40Georgia Hardstark?

  So hard to be a teenager.

• 40:42Karen Kilgariff?

  It is, it's the worst.

• 40:44Georgia Hardstark?

  So bad, you could not pay me to be a fucking teenager.

• 40:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my god, no.

• 40:47Georgia Hardstark?

  The two move in together when Tanya's just 17 years old. And the way she tells the story, she was pretty much just desperate to get out of her mom's house. And this kind of seemed like the only way.

• 40:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 40:57Georgia Hardstark?

  They get married in 1990, when Tanya's 20 years old. And for a while, Jeff makes enough money to support them while Tanya keeps skating. And they're hoping she'll get those endorsement deals.

• 41:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 41:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Jeff is abusive, though, allegedly, which Tanya will later discuss. The relationship will always be rocky and on and off, and like, basically, everything in Tanya's life, pretty unstable. The way Tanya describes it, Jeff was, quote, "always saying the right things to get me back, and I'd be stupid enough to go back and get beat up again." And they show this in I, Tanya, and it's just, it's just, yeah, it's so dark.

• 41:30Karen Kilgariff?

  But also, she's not stupid. This is her life, like, this is the way. If you, if that's been the pattern in your life,

• 41:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:38Karen Kilgariff?

  you continue that pattern.

• 41:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:39Karen Kilgariff?

  That's not a choice.

• 41:41Georgia Hardstark?

  She would say, "My mom loved me, and she hit me." He said he loved me and he hit me. Like, that's what you learn.

• 41:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 41:49Georgia Hardstark?

  It's really sad and there's not really any, like, she doesn't see any other options in her life. It's really fucking sad. Okay, so yeah, it does seem like she kind of internalizes this abuse and is kind of victim blaming herself for it.

• 42:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 42:03Georgia Hardstark?

  So it's not an excuse for her behavior, everything that happens to her, but it is context, which I think is important. And so while all this is going on, Nancy's living the way she always has, closely supported by her family, stayed in the same hotel room as her parents at competitions, she lives with them. And she often describes her mother as her best friend, which like, what a fucking privilege to have that in your life.

• 42:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you want to know one of my earliest jokes?

• 42:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 42:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It was based on something some famous person had said, where they're like, "My mother's my best friend." And I said, "Mom, you're my best friend." And my mom went, "Well, you're not my best friend." Which literally she did.

• 42:38Georgia Hardstark?

  I could see that.

• 42:40Karen Kilgariff?

  And just like, god damn it.

• 42:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And she meant it in like a tough love way, like, "I'm your mother, not your friend."

• 42:45Karen Kilgariff?

  She meant it like, no one's best friend should be their mother. That's weird. Don't act like that. You get another best friend.

• 42:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

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• 43:25Karen Kilgariff?

  We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.

• 43:29Georgia Hardstark?

  You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork, and trying to figure out who to call.

• 43:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.

• 43:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.

• 43:48Karen Kilgariff?

  That's why there's Solace Health.

• 43:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Solace provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience. And can help you get answers fast.

• 43:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.

• 44:02Georgia Hardstark?

  They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.

• 44:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.

• 44:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocacy improves outcomes and Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.

• 44:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Eligibility varies by insurance plan.

• 44:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice or services, must be 18 years or older.

• 44:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.

• 44:28Georgia Hardstark?

  It takes about two minutes and it's covered by insurance.

• 44:31Karen Kilgariff?

  That's S-O-L-A-C-E health.com/murder.

• 44:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 44:36Karen Kilgariff?

  You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.

• 44:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.

• 44:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals powered by pure Epsom salt and natural Dead Sea salt, it's designed to help you relax and get in the right state of mind for a good night's rest.

• 44:51Georgia Hardstark?

  If you need a reset after a crazy day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine. It's an effortless way to get a boost of topical magnesium that can help you relax your body and mind before bedtime.

• 45:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Dr. Teal's magnesium spray comes in a lightweight, fast drying formula.

• 45:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Just shake it up and generously spritz onto the soles of your feet and massage until absorbed.

• 45:11Karen Kilgariff?

  I was kind of blown away the first time I used this spray because I do have problems sleeping. And when there's something this simple, you just sprayed on your feet and suddenly you're asleep and the next morning you're like, wait, what happened? Did my problem just get solved? Like, it actually is that easy.

• 45:26Georgia Hardstark?

  And your stinky feet now smell like lavender. Like, what more do you want?

• 45:29Karen Kilgariff?

  How dare you call my feet stinky?

• 45:31Georgia Hardstark?

  For wellness, you can feel fine Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle.

• 45:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Between work, school, family obligations, and the endless Halloween hustle, it often feels like there's never a good time to slow down. The costumes, the parties, the planning, it all adds up. But no matter how busy life gets, even a small break can help us recharge, reset, and actually enjoy the moment we're in. Because breaks don't have to be big to matter. They can be the 15 minutes in your car before pickup, or the two minutes while your little pumpkin ties his shoes, the pause between one task and the next, when you finally get a second to yourself. Kit Kat gives people permission to take the break they've earned and make it a better break, a real break. Because when you stop, even briefly, you don't fall behind. You come back a little lighter, a little clearer, a little more ready for whatever's next.

• 46:21Karen Kilgariff?

  While the world tells us to keep going, Kit Kat reminds us that the best time for a break is now. Have a break, have a Kit Kat. Goodbye.

• 46:31Georgia Hardstark?

  So during the year after her marriage to Jeff, Tanya is doing her best skating of her life. It's 1991 and Tanya becomes the first American woman to land a triple axel in competition at the United States Championship, which is fucking huge. The triple axel has been this white whale for female skaters, figure skaters, because it involves launching yourself while facing forward, rotating three and a half times and then landing facing backwards. And it takes a huge amount of strength to get the necessary height to stay up there that long.

• 47:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 47:05Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, it is like, not for the faint of heart. People don't even try it because you will be, you will be hurt from doing it.

• 47:11Karen Kilgariff?

  You'll eat ice, as they say.

• 47:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly.

• 47:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Just kidding. They don't say that.

• 47:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Sounds right. Up until now, a Japanese skater named Midori Ito has been the only woman in the world to execute it until Tanya.

• 47:25Karen Kilgariff?

  As you said that, I knew, I've heard of Midori Ito and I'm like, how much ice skating did I?

• 47:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 47:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I guess it was just the Olympics.

• 47:33Georgia Hardstark?

  They were big.

• 47:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it was really big. And it was like in People Magazine and stuff.

• 47:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. Like, we were obsessed with the, I guess, are children still obsessed with the Olympics?

• 47:42Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know.

• 47:43Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't either, but we fucking were.

• 47:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's call the child hotline and see.

• 47:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Are there any children?

• 47:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Guys, what do you like? Roblox?

• 47:50Georgia Hardstark?

  This is also where her athleticism and her thighs and her muscle came into play. Like, you can't be a waif and pull off something that no one else can do in this sport.

• 48:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 48:02Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what I mean? But they don't, they won't, like, people don't think that it's an athletic sport. They forget that ice skating is athletic. And they want a pretty waify.

• 48:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Everything's supposed to be a goddamn beauty contest.

• 48:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 48:15Karen Kilgariff?

  When women are participating, that, all of that comes in and you have to suddenly talk about that all the time.

• 48:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Yeah, it's just a whole thing. It's because of her strength, so fuck you to everyone back then. Stand by that.

• 48:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, also just so.

• 48:29Georgia Hardstark?

  1994.

• 48:30Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just so telling. It's like she was clearly groundbreaking.

• 48:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 48:33Karen Kilgariff?

  She had, you have to look different to do something different.

• 48:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 48:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, obviously, you need the muscles to get up there.

• 48:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And it's like, she could try to beat Nancy at her own game, but that wasn't her style. And the reason she was one of the best in the world is because she had her own style and she was, you know, doing new, exciting things. It's kind of almost like they shouldn't have been in competition with each other because they were both doing something completely different.

• 48:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 48:56Georgia Hardstark?

  But they were. So Tanya's triple axel wins her the United States championship and sends her to the 1992 Olympics in Albertville, France.

• 49:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Mmm.

• 49:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Love it there. And Nancy also competes there. But between 1991 and 1992, Tanya seems to lose the ability to land that triple axel. She falters in some competitions and it seems like her life is just so chaotic. I can't imagine she's getting a lot of sleep.

• 49:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 49:21Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, and that's, that takes practice all day if you want, like, for the Olympics? You don't have another life outside of that. I can't imagine.

• 49:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. And also, I mean, I bet you, the way people do it now, where it's like, you're eating certain things, you're training certain times.

• 49:35Georgia Hardstark?

  All you're doing. She's smoking cigarettes.

• 49:37Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, she's like, she finds a Camaro somewhere to lean on and just smokes that cig.

• 49:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Drinking beer, smoking cigarettes, hanging out with your fucking husband who, like, you have this tumultuous relationship with.

• 49:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 49:47Georgia Hardstark?

  It's just not conducive to winning an Olympic fucking medal.

• 49:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Probably not.

• 49:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Right? I mean, I'm just podcasting and I'm fucking exhausted from, like, sleeping eight hours last night.

• 49:58Karen Kilgariff?

  My muscles, I wrought it all weekend and my muscles are killing me.

• 50:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Same. It hurts to be this good at something.

• 50:06Karen Kilgariff?

  And I have big thighs. And still, I can't nail the triple axel.

• 50:10Georgia Hardstark?

  But your lines are amazing. Your grace and lines and cheekbones are giving.

• 50:17Karen Kilgariff?

  It's the hand.

• 50:18Georgia Hardstark?

  There you go. This is why I did tap dance, not ballet. I wanted to clop all over the place and make as much fucking noise as possible.

• 50:24Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 50:25Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why.

• 50:26Karen Kilgariff?

  They'll, they'll all pay.

• 50:29Georgia Hardstark?

  My mom had to make me stop tap dancing down the grocery store aisles. Stop tap dancing. Well, that's what you did too. Right? Or your mom would grab you and say.

• 50:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, she would just grab me by the neck and be like, what do we need today?

• 50:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't wander off.

• 50:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Which meant, stop having temper tantrums everywhere you go.

• 50:47Georgia Hardstark?

  I would just, you'd always know where I was because I was clopping down the fucking.

• 50:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 50:52Karen Kilgariff?

  We're creating so much work for the editors in this episode.

• 50:56Georgia Hardstark?

  We're showing them what it's like to be Tonya Harding and how chaotic life can be.

• 51:00Karen Kilgariff?

  It's really hard and we understand it.

• 51:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, but you know what? Leave it all in. We stand by our words.

• 51:05Karen Kilgariff?

  We're leaving it all in. Nothing's getting edited.

• 51:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Yay.

• 51:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Everyone go on vacation.

• 51:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, stop it. At the Olympics, Tanya tries and fails to land the jump, which has got to suck. And I, it's just, you can see, that's another thing too about her skating. You can see in her face when she wins and loses in a way you don't think you're supposed to like, show.

• 51:25Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 51:25Georgia Hardstark?

  But in a really like cool, powerful, prideful way.

• 51:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 51:29Georgia Hardstark?

  That's awesome. Like, she's cheering along with everyone.

• 51:31Karen Kilgariff?

  She's leaving it all on the field.

• 51:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly.

• 51:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Is that the one when she couldn't land it where she had the black velvet outfit on?

• 51:39Georgia Hardstark?

  I think so.

• 51:40Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like I watched one of these real time.

• 51:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 51:42Karen Kilgariff?

  And it was hard to watch.

• 51:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Midori Ito lands hers. And in the end, Christy Yamaguchi still takes home the gold for America.

• 51:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Northern California.

• 51:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Girl. Midori Ito takes silver for Japan and Nancy gets the bronze and Tanya's in fourth place. This would potentially be where Tanya and Nancy's Olympic stories are over. They're 22 years old and the next time the Olympics roll around, they'd basically, they'd be 26. They'd basically aged out of, for Olympic figure skaters. So that was it. Like, fourth place, you're done. But, I mean, this is so fateful, fortuitous. They get a once in a lifetime break because prior to 1994, the Summer and Winter Olympics happened in the same year. After the 1992 Games, the decision is made to stagger them. And it's decided that there will be another Winter Olympics in 1994.

• 52:38Georgia Hardstark?

  And then the Summer Olympics in 96, so it can be every four years. So they just like double up on winter and they get to go back to the fucking Olympics.

• 52:47Karen Kilgariff?

  That is so weird.

• 52:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 52:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And I feel like I didn't know that as a detail of this story.

• 52:52Georgia Hardstark?

  I didn't know that either. But I'm not as into ice skating as you are.

• 52:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Jewish people don't really, we don't ice skate.

• 53:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Why would we? I don't think I'm into it as much as like I'm more of a, it was such a pulp culture.

• 53:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Hundred percent.

• 53:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Situation.

• 53:09Georgia Hardstark?

  We had Dorothy Hamel, Peggy Fleming, like we knew their names.

• 53:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, always.

• 53:14Georgia Hardstark?

  So this gives all the winter athletes a rare opportunity to compete in another set of Olympic Games just two years later.

• 53:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Lucky.

• 53:20Georgia Hardstark?

  So you thought you were done, you practiced for four years to get, or you'd practice so hard to get there. And now it's like, okay, guess what you're doing for the next two years?

• 53:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Starting all over again.

• 53:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow. So cut to two years later, let's just fucking.

• 53:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, let's get, let's just.

• 53:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's just go. 1994, Tanya and Nancy are back again, vying for spots on the next Olympic team. So they still have to compete again to be, even be on the team. In order to qualify for the Olympics, the skaters will need to first compete at the US Championships. Do you want to know what it's called?

• 53:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 53:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Officially Legs US Figure Skating Championships.

• 53:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 53:54Georgia Hardstark?

  With L apostrophe.

• 53:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Legs.

• 53:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Legs. For those of you who are very young, that's the pantyhose brand.

• 53:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Pantyhose that used to come in plastic eggs.

• 54:01Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 54:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Like Easter eggs, but pantyhose.

• 54:04Georgia Hardstark?

  It was spelled Legs, but like Legs.

• 54:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Legs apostrophe E G G S. And it had its own display where all of the eggs sat on individual little holders.

• 54:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Before there was like, you know, anime toys in little bubble, there was fucking pantyhose. And we made our moms give us the fucking container when they were done with them.

• 54:22Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 54:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Every time.

• 54:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Legs.

• 54:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Like all our Barbie shoes were in there.

• 54:26Karen Kilgariff?

  It's such a brilliant way to be like, do you want these pantyhose that all look like this? Or do you want some in eggs?

• 54:31Georgia Hardstark?

  You want them in eggs.

• 54:32Karen Kilgariff?

  They're legs.

• 54:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Why don't we put more stuff in eggs?

• 54:35Karen Kilgariff?

  We got to start.

• 54:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Why is that stopped?

• 54:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Kinder Eggs. There's another one.

• 54:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly.

• 54:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Good job. Okay. So in this, during this time, two years, Nancy has gotten additional endorsements and Tanya has pretty much gotten nothing. In 1993, she divorces Jeff, but the way Tanya tells it, and this is fucked up and it seems true, US figure skating authorities urge her to get back together with him so that she can portray this image of stability and traditionalism.

• 55:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 55:04Georgia Hardstark?

  They're like, you can't be a divorced ice skater, go back to your abusive husband. Otherwise, you're not going to win the thing that you've been devoting your entire fucking life to.

• 55:13Karen Kilgariff?

  That makes me think, do you think they flipped out when she married him in the first place because she was only 20?

• 55:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I'm sure. You've seen the videos, he just like came with her to all the shows. He kind of had looked a little sketch with the mustache.

• 55:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 55:27Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's certainly within the realm of possibility that they said that for such an image focused sport, because only in 2004 were women allowed to compete in pants. Like the leggings, they couldn't wear leggings, they had to wear fucking legs.

• 55:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Legs.

• 55:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Legs. A lot of them still won't wear them for fear of getting dinged by the judges, because costume is part of your score. And so they just don't fucking like the color.

• 55:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 55:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Or the cut. It's a personal preference, not a fucking.

• 55:54Karen Kilgariff?

  It's very Dance Moms coded.

• 55:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Hundred percent.

• 55:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, we're just always going to be haunted by these people that are behind a table, you know, waiting to put up a number. And it's like, those are the they in your mind, where it's like, they say you shouldn't do it that way. Who? It's like, who fucking cares?

• 56:09Georgia Hardstark?

  It's Dance Moms and it's pageants, child pageants.

• 56:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is gross.

• 56:14Georgia Hardstark?

  So gross.

• 56:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 56:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. We're just insulting the entire ice skating.

• 56:20Karen Kilgariff?

  We don't like anything.

• 56:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 56:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, ice.

• 56:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck ice.

• 56:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I meant for the drink, but.

• 56:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Can we leave fuck ice?

• 56:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, yeah, for sure.

• 56:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. You like crushed or do you like cubes? Okay, stop it. That brings us back to your favorite day, January 6th.

• 56:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Always.

• 56:37Georgia Hardstark?

  1994. In the wake of the attack, Nancy had suffered, so they were aiming for her knee, but they missed. And she suffered a severe bone bruise and the lower right thigh was what ended up getting hit.

• 56:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Ooh.

• 56:52Georgia Hardstark?

  But they did purposely go for her standing leg. So when she did twirls, she did it on the leg that they hit. Because she could have kept going, maybe if she didn't have to like favor that leg.

• 57:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 57:03Georgia Hardstark?

  But so they purposely used her.

• 57:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Her weight bearing leg.

• 57:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 57:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 57:07Georgia Hardstark?

  And it was hit with a telescopic baton.

• 57:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:11Georgia Hardstark?

  So like a police baton.

• 57:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Jeez.

• 57:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Like whap. I mean.

• 57:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 57:15Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so traumatizing.

• 57:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Why?

• 57:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Why? And then her dad picks her up and carries her into the locker room.

• 57:22Karen Kilgariff?

  He had to take a fourth job. Jesus Christ, this is so much worse than I even understood it to be.

• 57:29Georgia Hardstark?

  I know, but her knee is not broken, which is a miracle. So she can't skate in the US Championships, which will determine who's going to go to the Olympics. So without Nancy competing, Tanya places first.

• 57:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 57:41Georgia Hardstark?

  And a baby, Michelle Kwan.

• 57:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 57:44Georgia Hardstark?

  13 at the time, and I mean, she looks like a little baby.

• 57:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 57:49Georgia Hardstark?

  She places second, so the two.

• 57:51Karen Kilgariff?

  13?

• 57:52Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 57:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus.

• 57:53Georgia Hardstark?

  So the two of them are technically who were supposed to go represent the US at the Olympics. The committee decides to bump Michelle Kwan. They say to her, look, you're 13, you have other chances. Nancy doesn't. How do you feel about us, like, switching you guys out? Nancy had, couldn't compete. And Michelle fucking Kwan said, okay. Like, how graceful is that of her and, like, fucking cool?

• 58:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Holy shit.

• 58:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 58:22Karen Kilgariff?

  As a 13-year-old, you're like, no, fucking.

• 58:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck you! Judge, get the judges over here.

• 58:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you know how hard this was?

• 58:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck you, fuck you.

• 58:31Karen Kilgariff?

  I am in 7th grade.

• 58:32Georgia Hardstark?

  You're cool, fuck you.

• 58:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my God, what a generous thing she did.

• 58:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. I mean, even if she didn't want to, it's like, amazing.

• 58:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 58:41Georgia Hardstark?

  And like, that had just happened to Nancy, and I, we cannot tell you how big of a story this was at the time.

• 58:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Nonstop.

• 58:47Georgia Hardstark?

  This was the biggest story in the US and maybe in the world for a while.

• 58:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 58:52Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm angry about how big it was. So they decided to send Nancy anyway, even though she didn't compete. And so this competition has come to an end. Tanya and Nancy are going to the Olympics, but the frenzy to figure out who attacked Nancy heats up. And I mean, I can't remember if we all knew it was.

• 59:08Karen Kilgariff?

  We knew.

• 59:09Georgia Hardstark?

  We knew.

• 59:10Karen Kilgariff?

  We knew.

• 59:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, who didn't know?

• 59:11Karen Kilgariff?

  I think that, well, they just had to get the proof.

• 59:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 59:14Karen Kilgariff?

  But I feel like what's unfair, and really would have been unfair if she wasn't guilty, Tanya just had that look of a girl that, like, you don't want to cross her.

• 59:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 59:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And then she finds you in the movie theater parking lot, you know? So then it was clearly all those adults were just acting like, we know what happened, we can't prove it, we're going to continue as if that's what's going on.

• 59:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 59:35Karen Kilgariff?

  So.

• 59:36Georgia Hardstark?

  So shortly after the attack, the Koin TV, K-O-I-N, in Portland, we know them well, the Portland station, receives an anonymous letter claiming that Jeff, Tanya's husband, Tanya and a team of Tanya's bodyguards were responsible for Nancy's injury. One of the producers at the station knows Tanya personally and calls her up about it. And she says, you can look at the letter, but you have to do an interview with me. Like, she fucking.

• 1:00:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Did she write that letter?

• 1:00:04Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:00:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, oh.

• 1:00:05Georgia Hardstark?

  No, she's like, you can see it. You can come to the station and see it, but only if you do an interview with me.

• 1:00:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, oh, got it.

• 1:00:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Kind of like.

• 1:00:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Got it.

• 1:00:10Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, girl. So Tanya goes on air on that station to refute the letter. And it's so fucking creepy. Jeff is sitting directly behind the interviewer. And in the interview, you can see him staring at her. And you can, she looks afraid.

• 1:00:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:23Georgia Hardstark?

  And you can kind of see her, like, you know, look at him a couple of times to get the right answer. And she claims it was only after this interview that she begins to get the inkling that Jeff was really behind the plot. And so this is the big question is what did Tanya know and when?

• 1:00:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:38Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's debated. There's no total proof either way.

• 1:00:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 1:00:44Georgia Hardstark?

  I think we generally assume she had something to do with it from the beginning, allegedly.

• 1:00:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. I mean, that's kind of the logical.

• 1:00:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:52Karen Kilgariff?

  But then the idea of that your abusive husband would do this and you didn't know he was going to do it is so awful.

• 1:00:58Georgia Hardstark?

  You can see how that would happen, too. Like, that's what's so hard about the argument is like, you could see him doing it without wanting to burden you. And like, he's just going to do this thing that he thinks she might want.

• 1:01:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Or he's like, he's the man and the provider and he's like, yeah, I took care of it for you.

• 1:01:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Tanya got a death threat before the Nancy Kerrigan thing happened.

• 1:01:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:01:19Georgia Hardstark?

  And so that's what they were going to do initially is just give Nancy a death threat and hope that maybe she doesn't compete. But then it became this thing, so she might have had nothing to do with it.

• 1:01:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 1:01:29Georgia Hardstark?

  I, you know, allegedly, allegedly. Okay, so the station hands over the letter to the FBI and it's quickly traced back to a friend of the father of one of Jeff's friends, a man named Sean Eckhart. And so this guy is played by the incredible Paul Walter Hauser.

• 1:01:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you know who that is?

• 1:01:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:01:47Georgia Hardstark?

  He was the one in Blackbird who played the serial killer.

• 1:01:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 1:01:51Georgia Hardstark?

  He's just such an incredible actor.

• 1:01:52Karen Kilgariff?

  He was.

• 1:01:53Georgia Hardstark?

  So perfect in I, Tanya. So he had actually worked as Tanya's bodyguard and had given interviews in the wake of the attack. He's just a complete idiot. He also privately tells lots of acquaintances that he was involved in it. He's bragging about it. He thinks he's like this, you know. Like a superhero. Yeah, like a badass guy. He's just not. Once the FBI gets to Sean, the whole plot is revealed fairly quickly. The FBI agents who interview him said, quote, "When Sean realized he was facing some fairly serious penalties, he folded like a cheap accordion." Sean signs a statement claiming that four men were involved in the plot and that the idea seemed to come from Jeff, the husband. Jeff asked Sean to hire a hit team of two other men to carry out the attack, and those two men are named Derek Smith and Shane Stant.

• 1:02:38Georgia Hardstark?

  And so basically, they travel to Detroit, where Nancy is competing to be in the Olympics, and where they hit her. And all of this travel is charged to credit cards under their own names. I mean, when confronted with all the evidence, both men confess to the attack and plead guilty fairly quickly. Yeah. But over time, the men involved in the plot start changing their stories, saying that Tanya was involved and that she was in charge of the plot. So she kind of turns on Jeff, her now ex-husband, and when he finds out, he turns on her too, and they all do. Yeah. The only real evidence they find against Tanya is some, they find a scrap of paper with information in her handwriting, allegedly, about the rink and phone numbers for the rink where Nancy was practicing. Oh.

• 1:03:23Georgia Hardstark?

  So it just looked really bad. Yeah, that isn't good. Yeah. And so while all this is going on, Tanya is still preparing for the Olympics. In the meantime, no stress. Push on through. Yeah, which are scheduled to begin in, what's it called? Lilyhammer? Thank you. Lilyhammer, Lilyhammer, Norway. And Tanya still practices at the So Tanya's practicing at this rink in an open mall, and now she's the biggest villain in the US. And so as she's practicing and stressing out of the Olympics, she's being watched by every news station in the fucking galaxy.

• 1:03:58Georgia Hardstark?

  And just like waiting for her to fall and fail and something wrong to happen so they can report about it.

• 1:04:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:02Georgia Hardstark?

  It's just crazy. It's open to spectators and to the press. It's a madhouse. Even Diane Sawyer shows up ringside and just hangs out at the edge of the rink asking her questions.

• 1:04:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Diane Sawyer went to the Clackamas Mall?

• 1:04:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 1:04:14Karen Kilgariff?

  That's hilarious.

• 1:04:14Georgia Hardstark?

  She's like one of the most respected journalists of our time.

• 1:04:17Karen Kilgariff?

  She had to get out there.

• 1:04:18Georgia Hardstark?

  No. So this media frenzy follows her fucking everywhere over the course of six weeks leading up to the Olympics. Under questioning, Tanya confesses to learning about the plot after the fact. That's the only thing she ever admits to. And not alerting authorities as soon as she knew, and that's the only thing she's guilty of. She says she was afraid of what Jeff would do if she came forward, which is reasonable given Jeff's track record of abuse. But people to this day doubt whether or not she knew about the plot in advance and whether she helped advance it.

• 1:04:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:46Georgia Hardstark?

  But while all of this investigation is going on, Tanya hasn't been charged with anything and the Olympics are approaching. And with Tanya being a US champion, the Olympic Committee has no solid reason to remove her from the team. Like, they can't. They're hoping she resigns because at this point she admitted she knew something about the plot after the fact. Tanya then threatens to sue the Olympic Committee.

• 1:05:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:11Georgia Hardstark?

  I'll fucking sue you for $10 million.

• 1:05:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Sue all you motherfuckers.

• 1:05:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Sue all you motherfuckers. I'm competing.

• 1:05:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 1:05:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Meanwhile, Nancy's healing up and she'll be able to compete. In the six weeks between the attack and the games, she has to spend four weeks in physical therapy and then only has two weeks to practice her routine. Actually, in January 1994, this story was so big, it was on the covers of Sports Illustrated, Newsweek and Time Magazine.

• 1:05:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:38Georgia Hardstark?

  It's huge. The Winter Olympics in Lillehammer, Norway, begin in February of 1994. And at the Olympics, the whole US team has to practice at the same time. They all get the same ice time, which means Tanya and Nancy will be on the ice together. It's like, are they gonna have a catfight and scratch it out? It's just so dumb. A massive media frenzy happens and everyone wants to see what will happen. In the end, it's all anticlimactic. They don't get into a fight. They don't even talk to each other. Nancy has a pretty good outlook on the whole thing and she kind of just ignores any of the questions. She just won't talk about it. She doesn't want that to be the focus. She's pretty graceful about the whole thing.

• 1:06:19Karen Kilgariff?

  You love her.

• 1:06:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I love her, don't I? Oh, no, I love Nancy.

• 1:06:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm teen Tanya all the way.

• 1:06:26Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, Tanya's a fucking badass, like, but I'm scared.

• 1:06:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, just, but I don't know, there's something about that thing of like, she's just the little engine that nobody thought could. And so she's like, I will, I will beat you all into submission.

• 1:06:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:06:43Karen Kilgariff?

  And then it's like, oh, but you're not pretty enough. And it's like, it doesn't matter. I'm gonna do it anyway.

• 1:06:48Georgia Hardstark?

  She was like, if I do it exactly the way you want me to, I'm still gonna fail. And so I'm doing it my fucking way.

• 1:06:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 1:06:54Georgia Hardstark?

  And failing on my own terms.

• 1:06:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 1:06:57Georgia Hardstark?

  And then still fucking winning and still showing you how good I am. I mean, she's so impressive.

• 1:07:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, being fourth in like an Olympic sport.

• 1:07:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:07Karen Kilgariff?

  You might as, I mean, no one can get close to that.

• 1:07:11Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:07:11Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the, it's, there's, people really love to watch TV, myself included, and they just be like, that's, that's easy. It's not that big a deal. It's like, most people can't just go once around.

• 1:07:22Georgia Hardstark?

  No. And part of ice skating is making it look easy. They don't want you to have like strain on your face or big thighs, big muscular thighs. They want you to make it look like you're just flying.

• 1:07:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause you're just a little lady.

• 1:07:34Georgia Hardstark?

  And Tanya's like, well, fuck you.

• 1:07:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Tanya's like, I'm gonna do things other people can't do.

• 1:07:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:07:38Karen Kilgariff?

  And I'm, wear a lot of black eyeliner while I do it. The thing is that she didn't know she was in autumn. And if we had just gotten some brown eyeliner in there, they would have loved her to death.

• 1:07:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 1:07:49Karen Kilgariff?

  She could have been a little redhead.

• 1:07:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. I think I love them both.

• 1:07:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:07:53Georgia Hardstark?

  So, once the competition gets underway, Nancy skates a great short program while Tanya's performance is rocky. I mean, no stress or anything.

• 1:08:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:08:02Georgia Hardstark?

  When it comes for the long program, when Tanya's name is called, it takes her a long time to go on the ice because her shoelace broke.

• 1:08:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah. I remember that.

• 1:08:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. She has very specific shoes because of the jumps. And so they couldn't find the laces that were long enough for her. She's freaking out. She gets on the ice very last minute. So stressed, like, can you imagine?

• 1:08:22Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean.

• 1:08:22Georgia Hardstark?

  She says, like, it's not going to hold me. Like, she knows her shoes are not going to hold her for her jumps. And she also has, like, a misaligned skate. It's just a mess. And so she fails her first jump and she begins crying and takes her. Remember, this is the one where she, yeah.

• 1:08:37Karen Kilgariff?

  I watched all of it.

• 1:08:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:39Karen Kilgariff?

  I saw it. And also, it's that thing where, when I was watching it, and I think there's no way the judges weren't saying this or like this, the commentators weren't kind of alluding to it. But it's like, how do you, with that right behind you?

• 1:08:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Go? And so what, the second her lace was broken, it was like, to me, I could feel, I felt like it was, the pressure was building, building, building like crazy. And the, like, people staring at her. And then it was like, it wasn't the shoelace. You just couldn't, you wanted out.

• 1:09:09Georgia Hardstark?

  There's no coming back from that. And yeah, and then that, everyone just loved the photo of her face looking all, like, they ate it up, how devastated she looked. And it's like, you, you know, everyone was like, you got what you deserve. Like, it's just this whole storyline.

• 1:09:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Everyone loves that kind of, like, teach her a lesson.

• 1:09:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 1:09:24Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:09:25Georgia Hardstark?

  God forbid she, yeah.

• 1:09:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Lay in the bed that you made type of thing.

• 1:09:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. So that's kind of what happened. No one had any sympathy for her. She restarts the program and, with the new lace, and the routine goes well, but there's no triple axel, nothing, nothing great. And Nancy skates after Tanya, and again, skate's a great program. And it's looking like Nancy might be poised for the gold. And everyone is rooting for her because she's America's princess and she got back on the ice. And it's all that.

• 1:09:52Karen Kilgariff?

  She's so brave, yes.

• 1:09:53Georgia Hardstark?

  She's a Disney princess.

• 1:09:54Karen Kilgariff?

  It's braver that Tanya got on the ice. Because aside from physical.

• 1:09:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:00Karen Kilgariff?

  I think psychologically.

• 1:10:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:02Karen Kilgariff?

  If we're going to do a brave measurement, Tanya wins that one.

• 1:10:05Georgia Hardstark?

  She refused to apologize to anyone.

• 1:10:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:08Georgia Hardstark?

  And, you know?

• 1:10:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:10Georgia Hardstark?

  She had, she had chutzpah.

• 1:10:12Karen Kilgariff?

  She, you can't say that.

• 1:10:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Maybe a little too much chutzpah.

• 1:10:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:16Georgia Hardstark?

  But then comes 16 year old Oksana Bayul from Ukraine and sensing that she's probably neck and neck with Nancy, she adds in an unplanned triple toe loop, whatever the fuck that is, at the end of her program and it ultimately lands her the gold and Nancy gets the silver. Tanya comes in eighth place.

• 1:10:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:10:36Georgia Hardstark?

  After all of that. So I think they were hoping that they'd be like neck and neck and you know, no. And it's a really disappointing outcome, of course, for the American sportscasting perspective and an unsatisfying end to the biggest sports story of the year. But Oksana did skate really well, but a lot of people say that the skating community was actually just sick of America's antics. So even though Nancy should have gotten gold and a lot of people argue that, they were just like done with America's bullshit.

• 1:11:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh shit.

• 1:11:05Georgia Hardstark?

  And so gave her silver.

• 1:11:06Karen Kilgariff?

  So Nancy's double punished?

• 1:11:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Nancy's double punished.

• 1:11:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Because something she had no control over.

• 1:11:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Well, but also it just like, and also wrap it up. That is, that is so like life. We're just like, you can't hang out in the public eye that long.

• 1:11:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:11:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Without.

• 1:11:22Georgia Hardstark?

  They're gonna get fucking sick of you.

• 1:11:23Karen Kilgariff?

  They're gonna come at you.

• 1:11:24Georgia Hardstark?

  How much they like you.

• 1:11:25Karen Kilgariff?

  They're gonna come at you.

• 1:11:26Georgia Hardstark?

  What are we doing? It's 10 fucking years of this shit.

• 1:11:28Karen Kilgariff?

  We've had that time and again.

• 1:11:30Georgia Hardstark?

  We have, haven't we?

• 1:11:31Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, Jesus Christ.

• 1:11:33Georgia Hardstark?

  We're the Tanya Hardings and Nancy Kerrigan of podcasting. Okay?

• 1:11:38Karen Kilgariff?

  I think we're the double Tanya Hardings of podcasting.

• 1:11:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Hardings of podcasting, fine. So in March of 1994, right after the Games and Tanya makes a plea deal, pleading guilty to conspiracy to hinder prosecution. She's stripped of her 1994 Olympic eighth place title. She's like, take it.

• 1:11:57Karen Kilgariff?

  You can have it.

• 1:11:58Georgia Hardstark?

  And she's banned from participating in figure skating in any official capacity for the rest of her life.

• 1:12:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus.

• 1:12:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Which kind, it sucks. It's a devastating blow. That's like what her whole life has been leading up to, but also it means she won't be able to coach. Or make any money in the skating circuit, you know, when Disney on Ice or whatever. She cannot even fucking.

• 1:12:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that blows.

• 1:12:18Georgia Hardstark?

  So that's her entire life has been dedicated to this thing and she can't make a penny off of it.

• 1:12:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 1:12:23Georgia Hardstark?

  It's all she knows. She didn't even graduate high school.

• 1:12:25Karen Kilgariff?

  That's some vengeful skating.

• 1:12:28Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a little fucked up.

• 1:12:29Karen Kilgariff?

  The skating authority is tough.

• 1:12:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, like let her get on the B level circuit, you know, like.

• 1:12:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Let her coach.

• 1:12:35Georgia Hardstark?

  How does that hurt you?

• 1:12:36Karen Kilgariff?

  They gotta like make a point, no attacking other people's knees from now on.

• 1:12:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Bear in mind, in the 2010s, after renewed attention to the case, and then also after the I'm Tanya movie comes out, which was so fucking good. I watched it over the weekend. Like, I didn't think I'd like it.

• 1:12:52Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so good.

• 1:12:54Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so funny. She finds more work on reality TV and does better. And in 2018, she comes in third on Dancing with the Stars.

• 1:13:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Did she really?

• 1:13:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Third is.

• 1:13:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Amazing.

• 1:13:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Amazing for someone who's, well, she's a dancer, I guess, but not in that sense.

• 1:13:11Karen Kilgariff?

  And probably not for a while.

• 1:13:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:13Karen Kilgariff?

  But also Dancing with the Stars is hard.

• 1:13:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:13:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus.

• 1:13:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Guess what? You're gonna be on it next. Would you do it if they asked you?

• 1:13:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Never.

• 1:13:21Georgia Hardstark?

  You wouldn't?

• 1:13:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck no.

• 1:13:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Why?

• 1:13:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Because they're just in your business all the time. It's like a reality show of like, this is also your life. And so then it's like you practicing. It's just too much.

• 1:13:33Georgia Hardstark?

  No behind the scenes.

• 1:13:33Karen Kilgariff?

  It's too much of like any person's, like, you know, that's real training.

• 1:13:39Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, I gotta call our agent and tell him you said no.

• 1:13:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Ah.

• 1:13:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Nancy has remained deeply involved in the skating community and has commentated for the Olympics. She lives in Massachusetts, very, and she has a husband and kids. She's very involved in the skating club of Boston, the group that lost many young figure skaters in last year's plane crash in Washington DC.

• 1:13:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 1:14:00Georgia Hardstark?

  And there's video of her giving a press conference, like weeping. It's so sad.

• 1:14:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:14:04Georgia Hardstark?

  So now do you feel fucking bad?

• 1:14:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:14:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Even worse.

• 1:14:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Here's something better. She's actually also appeared on Dancing with the Stars several seasons before Tanya, and she came in sixth.

• 1:14:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, so I think we know who the better athlete is after all these years. They really, the form that it needs to be figured out in Dancing with the Stars, not the Olympics.

• 1:14:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Look at us sitting on our butts critiquing.

• 1:14:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Armchair quarterbacking.

• 1:14:31Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 1:14:31Karen Kilgariff?

  As we love to do.

• 1:14:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Throughout the 90s, American figure skating becomes a huge deal with TV specials and national tours. This is when it really like blows up into mainstream and figure skaters are catapulted to a much higher status of fame and recognition and fucking that those lucrative

• 1:14:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Sponsorships, yeah.

• 1:14:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Deals than they were previously. And a lot of people think that Nancy, the whole Nancy versus Tanya spectacle is part of the reason for this.

• 1:14:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 1:14:59Georgia Hardstark?

  So it launches a generation of figure skating fans who to this day continue to debate what Tanya knew and when she knew it. And that is the story of the 1994 assault of Nancy Kerrigan.

• 1:15:11Karen Kilgariff?

  What an incredible Christmas tale. So good for the holidays.

• 1:15:16Georgia Hardstark?

  It's nothing like, is that a Christmas movie? It's just a Christmas story.

• 1:15:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, yes, it is.

• 1:15:20Georgia Hardstark?

  It is ice. It's ice.

• 1:15:21Karen Kilgariff?

  It's everywhere and but also it's like hopes and dreams and then dreams deferred. And what that does to you.

• 1:15:29Georgia Hardstark?

  A Christmas miracle.

• 1:15:30Karen Kilgariff?

  It's almost like they did it, the Olympic Committee did that on purpose. Of like, nobody likes the way that ended up with Kerrigan and Harding.

• 1:15:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:39Karen Kilgariff?

  So let's get him back out here.

• 1:15:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Because that's wild.

• 1:15:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Amazing story.

• 1:15:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 1:15:46Karen Kilgariff?

  What a great thing for everyone's vacation.

• 1:15:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I didn't even think of doing it because it's just like such a story from our youth. Like, I've just been like.

• 1:15:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:53Georgia Hardstark?

  That's not your crime or like, that's just what happened. And it's like, oh, this is fucking.

• 1:15:56Karen Kilgariff?

  That's when someone, they pull crime into their perfect little world of athleticism and, you know, coaching and like, that's not allowed there.

• 1:16:07Georgia Hardstark?

  No, yeah. When Ally and Molly pitched it to me, I was like, oh, I could do that.

• 1:16:11Karen Kilgariff?

  So good.

• 1:16:11Georgia Hardstark?

  So thanks, you guys.

• 1:16:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that was great. That was really good.

• 1:16:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. Good job to you, too.

• 1:16:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you so much.

• 1:16:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Spectator and commentator.

• 1:16:19Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, I was there for a lot of it. Don't remember it accurately, but love chatting.

• 1:16:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 1:16:24Karen Kilgariff?

  It's my favorite, especially at Christmas, especially, sorry, I keep saying Christmas to you, especially at the holiday times.

• 1:16:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 1:16:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Your holiday is also important.

• 1:16:34Georgia Hardstark?

  To who?

• 1:16:36Karen Kilgariff?

  To me. Well, listeners, have a lovely holiday, whatever you're celebrating or even not celebrating.

• 1:16:43Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. Treat yourself to something nice. You deserve it.

• 1:16:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Treat yourself to a telescoping weapon of your choice this holiday season.

• 1:16:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Stay sexy.

• 1:16:54Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 1:16:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 1:16:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 1:17:06Georgia Hardstark?

  This has been an Exactly Right Production. Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes. Our editor is Aristotle Lassaveto. This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci. Our researchers are Mary McGlashan and Ali Okun. Email your hometowns to [email protected]. And follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder. Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Or you can watch us on YouTube. Search for My Favorite Murder, then like and subscribe.

• 1:17:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 1:17:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Calling all amateur detectives and podcast obsessives.

• 1:17:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Virgin Voyages' second True Crime Voyage sets sail March 20th, 2027, for a five-night escape to Grand Turk and the Beach Club at Bimini.

• 1:17:53Karen Kilgariff?

  As part of the On Air at Sea collection, this immersive sailing brings together fan favorite podcasts, including Disgrace Land, Buried Bones, and Wise Crack, for live recordings, behind-the-scenes access, exclusive meet-and-greets, and crime-themed programming that you won't find anywhere else.

• 1:18:09Georgia Hardstark?

  All aboard our award-winning, kid-free ships.

• 1:18:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot. Goodbye.

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• 1:18:49Speaker 07

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• 1:19:02Speaker 08

  ZOLAR 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking ZOLAR, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to ZOLAR. ZOLAR may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. ZOLAR should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. ZOLAR is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolar.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about ZOLAR. This is an advertisement for ZOLAR

• 1:19:46Speaker 08

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