The Death of Folklorist Robert Kirk: Loch Lomond & The Trossachs National Park

Do you believe in goblins and fairies? Do you believe in their the magic? Well, the Fairy Minister Reverend Robert Kirk did. In 1691 he published "The Secret Commonwealth of Elves and Fairies", a book that described their habits, appearance, and secrets in detail. The following year, Reverend Kirk was found dead on Doon Hill, the alleged entrance to the realm of the fairies. Coincidence? You decide. For a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodesFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to the week’s partners! Uncommon Goods: Use our link to get 15% off your next gift,Rocket Money: Use our link to get started saving. Nutrafol: Get $10 off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you use promo code NPAD. Smalls: For a limited time, get 60% off your first order, plus free shipping, when you head to Smalls.com/NPAD. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 1:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Every October, when the air turns cold and the days grow short, something ancient stirs beneath the surface of our world. The veil between the living and the dead grows thin and souls from the past return. Before jack-o'-lanterns and trick-or-treating, this time of year was sacred. A turning of the seasons when spirits walked among us and unseen forces entered our world. Across the mist-covered hills of Scotland, Ireland and beyond, people once lit fires to keep the dark at bay and left offerings for the unseen. They called them the good people, the fairies. The ones you never speak of too loudly for fear they might hear. Fairies weren't the tinker bells of children's tales.

• 1:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  They were wild and ancient, creatures of twilight and revenge, who could bless a household or curse a bloodline. For centuries, people knew better than to go looking for them. But one man did, a scholar, a believer, a man who claimed to have seen beyond the veil. He wrote down their secrets and in doing so, sealed his fate. Welcome to National Park After Dark.

• 2:31Danielle LaRock?

  Hello everyone. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. I'm Danielle.

• 2:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm Cassie. Welcome. It's Halloween week.

• 2:37Danielle LaRock?

  I'm so excited. And because I know that like, this episode is gonna be a lot about fairies and stuff, but it's also a very real story about somebody going missing, or dying, or I already forgot. You told me earlier, but.

• 2:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, well, we'll find out really soon, but it is a true story and it took place in Scotland, which is fun because I wanted to go to an international park and I wanted to kind of dive into Halloween and the story behind its beginnings, but also I wanted to get into fairies and stuff because they're so deeply ingrained with Halloween tradition. And I think a lot of times, at least for me, when I first heard of fairies growing up and stuff, I'm like, ah, Tinker Bell, like beautiful little woodland fairies that are bright and happy. And that's not their history. They're actually a lot darker than that. So I thought it would be fun to dive into some folklore for Halloween.

• 3:34Danielle LaRock?

  And I'm very excited that it's taking place in Scotland because Scotland has taken over my entire life.

• 3:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Scotland is calling you.

• 3:43Danielle LaRock?

  It really is. Okay, so, and I know I'm falling prey to the internet algorithms and the powers that be there. I know it's not like some weird divine intervention in any way, but Scotland, Halifax, and the new Dracula are all that I see on my feed.

• 4:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  I didn't even know there was a new Dracula.

• 4:07Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, I need to, hold on a minute.

• 4:11Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, I truly don't, we live such separate lives because I can't open my phone without clips of the new Dracula being thrust into my face. And I just, I feed into it because it's amazing. So I guess the new Dracula came out already internationally. But it's not, it's not coming to US theaters until February.

• 4:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, interesting. We're last. Actually, the US has historically, they get movies later than other places.

• 4:40Danielle LaRock?

  Well, I might have to take up offers to watch this, like on the whatever sites that I'm not saying I'm gonna do anything illegal, but.

• 4:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Break the law and you're gonna go on one of those. It's like you're gonna go on one of the movie LimeWire sites.

• 4:55Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, and then my entire system is gonna crash and.

• 4:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  But it'll be worth it because you'll get the movie first.

• 5:01Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, it just looks so, and I'm trying not to spoil it because clearly it's out and there's footage of, I mean, people have seen, millions of people have seen it. But I'm gonna send you clips of it. It just looks.

• 5:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  So it can be my algorithm.

• 5:15Danielle LaRock?

  Bring back yearning, men who yearn, you know what I mean?

• 5:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 5:20Danielle LaRock?

  It's like one of those and it's just, he's been waiting for his love to reincarnate again. So he, oh my God, it's just a whole thing. And I can't believe you haven't seen it, but yeah, so.

• 5:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Even a single time.

• 5:31Danielle LaRock?

  Well, that'll change in an hour and a half and when we're done with this. But yeah, so the new Dracula Halifax, just because of the Titanic. It's always kind of swirling around. And then, yeah, Scotland has been, Edinburgh has been on my radar for a while. And I know we've talked about it before, but have you been when you were?

• 5:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  No.

• 5:52Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. For some reason, I always feel like you've been there, maybe just because you've been over to England quite a bit.

• 5:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I've done a lot of Europe, but not Scotland. It is definitely on my list. My mom's going to a wedding there in March or May or something next year. But I'm very, very jealous.

• 6:11Danielle LaRock?

  I was tempted to go to, for my birthday this year because last year I did Ireland.

• 6:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 6:17Danielle LaRock?

  But I don't know, I just like, I don't really want to go. And I'm sure it's probably charming in the winter because my birthday is a couple of weeks before Christmas. So I always get that like Christmas market type of holiday feel for my birthday. And I'm sure it's very nice there for the holidays. But I don't know, I just kind of maybe would rather go in the fall and the fall is already booked up. So.

• 6:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, that's true. Next year, 2026 for sure.

• 6:45Danielle LaRock?

  Here we go. Okay, well.

• 6:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Until that gets booked up, too.

• 6:49Danielle LaRock?

  I would love to hear about fairies.

• 6:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Yeah. And Halloween, we hope everyone is having a fun spooky season.

• 6:59Danielle LaRock?

  Are you dressing up?

• 7:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, I have no plans for Halloween.

• 7:02Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, me neither.

• 7:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sad. This is adult life. Uh.

• 7:07Danielle LaRock?

  I know. I'm like, well, I guess, wait, do I have? Oh, no, I get back. That's the day after. So I'm going to Durango for a couple of days. And I fly back. I made my flight the day before Halloween. Cause I'm like, I gotta be home for Halloween.

• 7:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  England, yeah.

• 7:26Danielle LaRock?

  And then when I really stopped to think about it, I was like, okay, in actuality, what am I doing? I have zero. It's like, why am I rushing back here to do nothing? I don't know. Maybe, I don't know, maybe there's a local event going on.

• 7:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Yeah. I have zero plans at all. And it's kind of been like that for the past few Halloweens, I think. I don't remember the last time I did something for Halloween. Just sad.

• 7:51Danielle LaRock?

  God, I guess me either.

• 7:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  I wanna dress up.

• 7:56Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, no, actually, okay. The last time I did do something, I do remember. I dressed up as Beetlejuice. I still have my Beetlejuice costume.

• 8:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  I actually remember that costume.

• 8:07Danielle LaRock?

  Cause I did my whole, like, I did, like, the face paint. I did my hair. I did the whole thing. And Ian and I went to a bar in the crypt. They had like a, an event going on in Washington in, I think it was Tacoma, maybe? I don't know. Yeah. And then we tried to come back and we set up for trick or treaters and none ever came. We just waited out there for hours. And it was so sad. I know I've said this before, but it was so sad because we would hear like distant laughter. We knew.

• 8:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  They're nearby. They're just not here.

• 8:38Danielle LaRock?

  They were so close. And we had like, we put music out. We did like the little tea lanterns. We like, we were trying to draw in the children and. No one ever came.

• 8:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's so sad.

• 8:49Danielle LaRock?

  I know.

• 8:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Especially because of the effort. But you're just sitting there in your BLG's costume and no one's coming.

• 8:55Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, it was like dressed up. He had like a mask on and stuff and he was just like sitting in a fold out chair next to a bowl of candy.

• 9:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Just waiting for someone to show up.

• 9:05Danielle LaRock?

  We weren't even like, oh, we're gonna watch a movie and if somebody knocks on the door or whatever, like we'll hand it out.

• 9:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  You're actively participating.

• 9:12Danielle LaRock?

  We were set up. We were ready, candy in hand, to give over. And yeah, no one ever came. And I do, I do have a...

• 9:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  At the end of the night and you're just like slowly eating the candy that no one came and got.

• 9:23Danielle LaRock?

  We ordered Domino's. We're like, we gotta feed ourselves. We're post up here for a long time. Yeah, anyway. So I guess that was the last, it's a sad last Halloween event, I guess. So, all right, turn this around. I'm sick of talking and I want to listen to something else.

• 9:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, well, let's dive into our story because today we step across the veil. We are delving into the deep, mysterious roots of a popular, modern holiday. And of course, you know, that is Halloween.

• 10:00Danielle LaRock?

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• 11:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Long before plastic pumpkins and prepackaged candy, October 31st was known as Sawen. This ancient Celtic festival marked the end of summer, the welcoming of the harvest, and the entry point into the dark part of the year. Sawen was the Celtic New Year and took place the night before All Saints' Day. It was believed that during the transition of Sawen, the boundaries between the world of the living and the world of the dead were lifted. Spirits walk the earth and this time of year was devoted to the dead, the ancestors, and the she. The she were believed to be powerful, sometimes unpredictable. Spirits often referred to with euphemisms like the good people. The tradition of wearing disguises and costumes during Sawen started

• 12:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  because people sought to confuse the evil spirits traveling the earth so they would be left alone. Games of chance like bobbing for apples can trace their roots to these ancient customs. Even the traditional colors of Halloween, black and orange, originated with Sawen. Black represented the death of the summer. The orange symbolized the autumn harvest season, which was something that I never knew. I just accepted that black and orange was Halloween with no questions asked.

• 12:35Danielle LaRock?

  Cool. I'm going to trivia tonight, so I'm banking all these fun fact. You know, you never know.

• 12:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's the season, so I feel like these would be part of trivia.

• 12:44Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, and if they're not, maybe I'll just offer the information.

• 12:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  I have some trivia questions, actually, for the audience.

• 12:51Danielle LaRock?

  I grabbed the mic. I'm like, hello, everyone.

• 12:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's Halloween and do you know what the meaning of black and orange is for this holiday?

• 12:59Danielle LaRock?

  That's such a good trivia question.

• 13:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  It is.

• 13:02Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. I'm ba- I'm banking it.

• 13:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Now you know. And if anyone is participating in trivia and you get this as a trivia question and you get it right because of me, please let me know.

• 13:14Danielle LaRock?

  That would be incredible. I've never heard a question like that, but it's such a piece of obscure knowledge that I feel like would be on Jeopardy or something like that. It's like, how do they come up with those questions?

• 13:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Or like Who Wants to be a Millionaire?

• 13:29Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like I have a better shot at Who Wants to be a Millionaire, especially because they

• 13:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  phone a friend.

• 13:34Danielle LaRock?

  Well, yeah, you have like your three lifelines, but also because I feel like they, they start with some softballs.

• 13:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 13:41Danielle LaRock?

  Almost as if I can do this. And then you're like, wow, I don't know.

• 13:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, they gotta keep you there for a little while. They can't just like shoot you down really quick.

• 13:51Danielle LaRock?

  Jeopardy doesn't do that.

• 13:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, they don't care.

• 13:53Danielle LaRock?

  Jeopardy just goes right in hard and.

• 13:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  My Grammy, my mom's mom, I remember as a kid watching both Jeopardy and Who Wants to be a Millionaire with her and she knew everything. We used to always be like, you have to go on this show because we would be sitting there and she would say an answer and she would be right, like probably eighty percent of the time.

• 14:13Danielle LaRock?

  I just don't understand how one prepares for something like that because the questions are so, there is no pattern to the question. Like they're just, you need to have knowledge of everything.

• 14:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, you just have to know everything. You have to know a little bit about every single subject.

• 14:31Danielle LaRock?

  And not even a little bit.

• 14:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like specific important pits.

• 14:36Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So the last time I watched Jeopardy was when Nataia was in labor. We had her husband, Mike, put on Jeopardy. She's.

• 14:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's a good distraction show.

• 14:47Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. She, I think that at one point she was just like, you know, hunched over like, turn this shit off.

• 14:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, I don't care.

• 14:57Danielle LaRock?

  Birthing new life. Um, but yeah, and there's a, a couple of times that we paused it and had to really think about it and mull it over. And even then, yeah.

• 15:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, did she and look it up?

• 15:09Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, there's times I don't even understand what the question is asking. It's not even that I don't know the answer. I don't know the question.

• 15:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  That does make it harder to win.

• 15:18Danielle LaRock?

  Don't sign me up for Jeopardy ever. Jeopardy, don't even think about coming over here.

• 15:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 15:23Danielle LaRock?

  I know it's tempting, but I won't do well.

• 15:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sign me up for Is It Cake, because I would thrive.

• 15:30Danielle LaRock?

  Cassie's dream.

• 15:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Is to be on Is It Cake.

• 15:33Danielle LaRock?

  A top five dream, probably.

• 15:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  If you ever see me on Is It Cake, just know that I've made it.

• 15:41Danielle LaRock?

  We don't need anything. What are like big things that we don't need to be, we don't need to see our name in lights somewhere. We just want to be on Is It Cake. Actually, I don't have any interest. I'll be in the crowd cheering you on.

• 15:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  There isn't a crowd on Is It Cake. It's just the.

• 15:57Danielle LaRock?

  No, like in the back, like just the.

• 15:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  There's no crowd. What are you talking about?

• 16:03Danielle LaRock?

  There's no live audience?

• 16:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, the audience are the people who are participating in the show.

• 16:10Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, okay. Well, I'll sit on the sidelines and watch you and. Anyway, okay, this, people are gonna be like, shut the fuck up, please.

• 16:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Anyway, back to Halloween, but that is relevant because they did do, Is It Cake did a Halloween series where they did all spooky cakes and stuff. So it is relevant.

• 16:34Danielle LaRock?

  I was just taking a sip of my coffee and it almost came out of my nose.

• 16:38Danielle LaRock?

  No, I swear this, this fits into this.

• 16:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  This makes sense.

• 16:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Does.

• 16:45Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, my God. Okay. I'm gonna mute myself.

• 16:50Danielle LaRock?

  Does this program have a mute button?

• 16:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think it does, but I need you to participate.

• 16:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Anyway, going back into it, last thing I said was black represents the death of summer and orange symbolizes the autumn harvest season. But these weren't all just quaint stories. These beliefs were woven into the very fabric of life. If you failed to make appropriate gestures to the ancestors, or if you were simply unfortunate enough to be out alone on Sawen Night, you risked being killed or abducted by these roaming spirits or fairies. The world of this she was believed to be an invisible, parallel universe that intersected with ours in strange and dangerous ways. It also serves, as I've been hinting, as an ominous precursor to the very legend and lore that define our modern Halloween.

• 17:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Which brings us to the magnificent Loch Lomond and Trussex National Park and the charming village of Aberfoyle in Scotland. Loch Lomond and the Trussex National Parks boast some of the most stunning scenery in the world, from breathtaking mountains and glens to the vast tranquil beauty of its lochs. The national park is home to Queen Elizabeth Forest Park, where you can find the village of Aberfoyle. And this is one thing that's really interesting, I think, about European national parks and a lot of other places around the world, is when you're in the US, you think of national parks and it's just vast land, at least for most of them. And when you get to the UK and places around Europe, national parks don't mean there aren't towns or people living in them.

• 18:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  So when I was researching this about Aberfoyle, it's very much a town that people live and recreate in, but it's also a national park. Yeah. Which I think is important to note. Yeah, it would be cool to live inside a national park away, which I won't even dive into that, but I learned that my family history, they used to live in a national park in Italy, which I thought was really cool. But going back into Aberfoyle, it sits on the banks of River Forth and serves historically as the southern gateway to the Trussex. Following the publication of Walter Scott's The Lady of the Lake, Aberfoyle quickly developed into a popular holiday village noted for its distinct Victorian architecture and attractive main street.

• 19:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Visitors today can find shops, cafes, restaurants, and the Aberfoyle Golf Club, which was established in 1890. There's also the Trussex Discovery Centre, where you can learn more about the area's natural beauty and history. The Trussex region is famous for its stunning scenery, and it also offers adventurers ample opportunity for an adrenaline rush. Visitors can explore the Queen Elizabeth Forest by flying 46 meters above the ground on Britain's longest zip line, or venture through over 60 miles of bike paths and forest walks. The Duke's Pass, named after the Duke of Montrose, is regarded as one of Britain's best drives, providing spectacular views.

• 19:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  It follows a route once used by Rob Roy's cattle drovers, which is fun because Roy, known as the Scottish Robin Hood, was the Duke's nemesis. Fun fact of more history you can dive into on... More trivia. Further north along the Duke's Pass is the Three Locks Forest Drive, a seven and one-fourth mile loop open to walkers, cyclists, and drivers. Within this beautiful, historically-rich landscape is Dune Hill, and Dune Hill is where our story takes place today. Dune Hill, sometimes referred to as Fairy No or Dunchy, is a round, soft, gentle hill not high like the surrounding Tressix. The trail to the summit starts near the main parking lot in

• 20:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Aberfoyle. It's an easy, tranquil, two-hour circular walk that includes quiet oak woodland and mossy rocks. This small, seemingly innocuous hill has been long regarded as a significant spot in folklore. It's believed to be the entryway or threshold to the other world of fairies, a gateway guarded by mythical beings. In Reverend Robert Kirk's words, "The local mountain people considered these fairy hills dangerous to peel or discover by taking earth or wood from them." At the top of Dune Hill, visitors reach a clearing where a single ancient Scots pine stands among circling oak trees. This is known locally as the minister's pine or the fairy tree. According to local belief, this pine is thought

• 21:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  to be a doorway to an underground fairy queen's palace where the soul of Reverend Robert Kirk is still held captive. The village of Aberfoyle is so deeply connected to this legend that Kirk's story has helped earn it the name "The Fairy Capital." And going a little bit into our story, in the 1600s Reverend Robert Kirk, a minister in Aberfoyle and an accomplished Gaelic scholar, became obsessed with local folklore and the existence of these subterranean invisible people. Like many in the 17th century, he believed in spirits, witchcraft, and pagan rituals. In 1691 Reverend Kirk published

• 21:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  an extraordinary book, "The Secret Commonwealth of Elves and Fairies," which might sound like it's a fiction book, but this was completely based on his true beliefs. And this book meticulously described the habits, appearance, and hidden secrets of fairy folk, also known as eurisks. Local people believed that by revealing these closely-guarded secrets in print, Kirk had transgressed a sacred taboo and greatly annoyed the spirit people. The following year, on May 14th, 1692, Kirk disappeared mysteriously. His body was found eventually on Dune Hill, dressed only in a nightgown.

• 22:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  While some suggest he died of a sudden collapse or natural causes, local lore insists that the fairies killed him as retribution for betraying them.

• 22:47Danielle LaRock?

  Well, everyone knows the first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club.

• 22:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  So true.

• 22:53Danielle LaRock?

  So.

• 22:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  And it's funny because even telling and reading this, I'm like, this all feels like fake lore that isn't a true story. But all of this is, I think the most interesting part about the story is that all of this is true.

• 23:08Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, wait.

• 23:11Danielle LaRock?

  What part of it feels not real? Like that this guy dedicated his life to exposing fairies?

• 23:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, that the whole town forever has thought that this area of Dune Hill is like this fairy opening of the, like, it feels like it would be folklore. And it is, but it's also deeply ingrained in beliefs then in.

• 23:31Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 23:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  His whole study of folklore and fairies and stuff, it can almost, I think, feel like, wait, what?

• 23:40Danielle LaRock?

  So are you gonna, I, if I'm jumping ahead, I'm sorry, but how did he get into this? Because you said he's a minister.

• 23:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes.

• 23:51Danielle LaRock?

  Right?

• 23:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mm hmm.

• 23:52Danielle LaRock?

  So was this just kind of a passion project or like a side thing?

• 23:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think him being a minister actually contributed to his spiritual beliefs that contributed to his interest in folklore. But I'm so glad that you asked that because in order to fully understand his story, we have to dive into his.

• 24:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Last Christmas, Al bought me a record player and since then I've gotten really into collecting records, but I also wanted the whole setup to look beautiful in our home. So when I saw the Jocuna vinyl media unit from Article, I knew exactly where it was going. And when it arrived, I was really impressed with the quality. And it's one of those pieces that's just as functional as it is nice to look at. That's really what Article does so well. They make it easy to create a stylish home with high-quality furniture at a really great price. Their collection includes everything from sofas and sectionals to dining tables, chairs, bedroom furniture, storage, outdoor pieces and decor with a lot of mid-century modern coastal and Scandi-inspired designs. And everything is curated to work together so you can mix and match pieces without feeling

• 25:04Cassandra Yahnian?

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• 25:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  So going into what came of his death on the hill. This gave rise to an even stranger tale in Aberfoyle. Some said that the body that was found was merely a fake. It was an exact replica of him, but it wasn't truly him. They claimed the real Robert Kirk's soul, body, and spirit were captured and imprisoned in fairyland. His prison is said to be the ancient Scots pine tree standing alone on the hill's summit, now known as the minister's pine or the fairy tree. There was an attempt to free him at his posthumous child's baptism, which we will get into in a little bit.

• 26:25Danielle LaRock?

  You're saying so much that I have so many questions about.

• 26:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  But the attempt failed and Kirk remains trapped in fairyland. His ghost is said to still wander the hillside. So today, Dune Hill remains a site of spiritual significance. Visitors tie ribbons and offerings to the fairy tree, forever linking this quiet corner of Scotland to the dark, fascinating world of the supernatural. But like I said before, to totally understand why this region of the world has remained so connected to the supernatural, with Robert Kirk at its center for hundreds of years, you need to understand who Robert Kirk truly was. The story of the fairy minister begins long before his ill-fated walk on Dune Hill.

• 27:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Robert Kirk was born probably in Aberfoyle, Perthshire, in 1644. Some sources suggest he might have been born as early as 1641. He was the son of Reverend James Kirk, who was the minister of Aberfoyle. Aberfoyle was a royalist stronghold, so Robert was a native Gaelic speaker. Crucially, Robert Kirk was the seventh son of his minister father. In the traditional beliefs of the Highlands, being a seventh son conferred upon the individual the power of second sight. Second sight, known in Gaelic as tavair, allowed an individual to see the otherwise invisible world of the fairies and spirits. This inherent supernatural connection

• 27:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  is why Robert Kirk later chose to delve into the beliefs surrounding the fairy world. Robert was an accomplished scholar, linguist, and theologian. In 1661, he graduated with an MA from Edinburgh University and went on to further study at St. Andrews. After his ordination, he began his ministry in November 1664 in the parish of Balquitter, which was near his birthplace. He was appointed minister of Aberfoyle in 1685 and returned to his childhood home and his father's former parish. Kirk's dedication to Gaelic scholarship was immense. He began translating the Bible, Psalms, and Catechism into Gaelic. His work was deemed both important and elegant.

• 28:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Around 1689, he went to London for eight months to supervise the printing of Bishop Betts' Gaelic Bible, which came to be known as Kirk's Bible of 1690. This work also included a vocabulary of 464 difficult words, foreshadowing future Gaelic dictionaries. Kirk was an intellectual who actively engaged in the- Theological and metaphysical debates, seeking to combat the rise of fashionable skepticism and materialism. For Kirk, fairies provided a key piece of evidence for spiritual realms. If he could convince people of the realities of fairies, he believed he could uphold the beliefs in angels, the devil, and ultimately, God.

• 29:18Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, this is answering questions to a lot.

• 29:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like why he's connecting all of this.

• 29:24Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, like why is he so passionate about fairies in particular? And that it's all coming together.

• 29:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's all all tying together. His goal was to suppress the impugnant and growing atheism of this age. While in London, he met Bishop Edward Stillingfleet and his wife Elizabeth. Since the bishop was also a seventh son, the couple asked Kirk what this implied. Kirk wrote his next book in response, dedicating it to Elizabeth Stillingfleet. Kirk married twice. While serving in Balquitter, he married Isabel Campbell in 1678, with whom he had a son named Colin. After Isabel's death on Christmas Day two years later, Kirk later married her cousin. Scandalous. If I die, do not marry my cousin. Not you, I'm just saying.

• 30:12Danielle LaRock?

  Wait.

• 30:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  If I die and if I die and Al married my cousin, I would haunt him forever.

• 30:19Danielle LaRock?

  We've had this argument before, but I feel like maybe differently.

• 30:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  I just, of all the people.

• 30:26Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, but it's like, I don't know. I feel like it's like you would have, there's like a closer, like you.

• 30:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  I do get it.

• 30:33Danielle LaRock?

  You.

• 30:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, and that's a totally fair point. I just, yeah.

• 30:38Danielle LaRock?

  It's fine.

• 30:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Fair point.

• 30:40Danielle LaRock?

  It's fine if you feel differently. I just think that it's like you both. Yeah.

• 30:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Love the same person.

• 30:48Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, you love the same person and, I mean, I don't know. I don't know.

• 30:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Keep it all in the family.

• 30:55Danielle LaRock?

  Keep it all in the family, I guess, yeah. I know that and that was like a, I'm sure also what we're talking 1600s. How many other people are around?

• 31:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, and you kind of marry your family members at this time sometimes. So at least it's not his personal family member.

• 31:12Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 31:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  I mean, by marriage, I guess.

• 31:14Danielle LaRock?

  Which, eh, it's a gray area.

• 31:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, he later marries her cousin Margaret Campbell and they had a son named Robert. Margaret was pregnant with her second child, Marjorie, at the time of Kirk's death. It is believed Kirk completed the manuscript for his most famous and infamous work around 1691. It was published under the title, "The Secret Commonwealth of Elves, Fawns, and Fairies, or an Essay on the Nature and Actions of the Subterranean and for the most part, Invisible People, Hair to Fore, Going Under the Name of Fawns and Fairies, and the Like, as Described by Those Who Have the Second Sight."

• 31:54Danielle LaRock?

  Wait, that was the title?

• 31:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  That was the entire title.

• 31:57Danielle LaRock?

  I just blacked out. Can you say that one more time?

• 32:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Say this three times fast. "The Secret Commonwealth of Elves, Fairies, Fawns, or the Essay on the Nature of Actions of the Subterranean and for the most part, Invisible People Hair to Fore, Going Under the Name of Fawns and Fairies and the Like, as to described by the Those Who Have the Second Sight." The secret site, "The Secret Commonwealth of Elves, Fawns, and Fairies," or the essay. Did you get it?

• 32:22Danielle LaRock?

  I got it. Wow, okay.

• 32:26Danielle LaRock?

  I don't need to read the book. I feel like I got, I kind of got the-

• 32:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's confusing read. I tried to read it because there's actually, you can read this book. It's better known as "The Secret Commonwealth of Elves and Fairies", and I think that's for obvious reasons why it's better known as that instead of there. But you can actually find a digital version online if anyone is interested in reading it. But I will say it's very difficult to read, and I think because people spoke and wrote very differently in the 1690s. But I was reading it and I'm like, what is this say? You know, I had to kind of like re-

• 32:59Danielle LaRock?

  It's like me trying to read a Jeopardy question. Yeah.

• 33:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it's pretty similar, pretty similar experience.

• 33:05Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 33:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, Kirk completed the manuscript around 1691, but the book didn't appear in print until 1815.

• 33:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  When Sir Walter Scott published it. However, small numbers of handwritten copies of Kirk's manuscript were in circulation before he died. The secret Commonwealth of Elves and Fairies recounts the habits, attitudes, and appearance of the supernatural beings that Kirk's parishioners referred to as the she or good people. Kirk treated the existence of fairies as a phenomenon worthy of study, blending his theological insights and local oral traditions in the manner of a folklorist and proto-scientist. He lived in a transitional age between tradition and modernity, magic and science, and his book stands as a priceless cultural document. Kirk presented his material as an anthropological study

• 33:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  to avoid the political and theological dangers of writing directly about fairies in a skeptical age. Magic and science were still closely linked, and contemporary members of the Royal Society were great collectors of and often firm believers in magic. Kirk's depiction of fairies in the fairy world was extremely detailed. He described them as having a middle nature between man and angel. He referred to them as lynchobious people, meaning those living by lamplight. He was also quite poetic, referring to fairies as people who, "instead of day, useth the night and liveth as if they were by candlelight", emphasizing their ghostly nature.

• 34:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  He described them as pliable through the subtlety of the spirits that do agitate them, that they can make them appear or disappear at their leisure. Kirk said that they had light, changeable bodies of congealed air. Some were human-sized, others were much smaller. They wore clothes similar to humans in their region. Kirk compared their ability to change themselves and disappear to the chameleon. He said, "Little beast that doth easily change itself into all colors and is nourished only with the air."

• 35:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Just to give a little view of like how he spoke. Imagine reading that for like 200 pages. Little beast that doth easily change.

• 35:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  I would need a translation, I think, for each.

• 35:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sentence.

• 35:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Paragraph.

• 35:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 35:27Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like this episode, half of it, you've been speaking to me in riddles.

• 35:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 35:33Danielle LaRock?

  I'm trying, I feel like I'm reading the text right now through you.

• 35:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, do you understand?

• 35:40Danielle LaRock?

  I don't, I'm not sure. I have a vision of what I think he's trying to, to describe. But the whole being lit by candle night, or whatever you said, threw me for a second.

• 35:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. It's just like the way he spoke. I think that they are glowing and I think that they are mostly out at night. Is what he was trying to say.

• 36:00Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, yeah.

• 36:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Fairies were thought to inhabit the subterranean cavities and cells of the earth. Kirk embraced the concept that asserted that there was no corner of the earth that was empty of fairies. He wrote that there was, quote, "no such thing as a pure wilderness in the whole universe." Or one devoid of fairies. He reasoned that since humans lived on the surface and worms, otters and fish lived under it, it was inconceivable that the middle cavities could be empty. They often moved their lodging at the beginning of each quarter of the year, transversing until doomsday, impatient in staying in one place.

• 36:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  When they move, Kirk wrote, "their chameleon-like bodies swim in the air near the earth with bag and baggage." So again, I can't argue with that.

• 36:51Danielle LaRock?

  I understand. I'm picking up what he's putting down on that one. I get it. I mean, that logic, you can't really argue.

• 36:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. It's like there's this middle ground of you can't say that they're not here.

• 37:02Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, it's like, you're right, but can you say they are for sure?

• 37:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, do you know?

• 37:10Danielle LaRock?

  He definitely feels like he knows, he wrote a whole book about it.

• 37:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 37:14Danielle LaRock?

  Does he claim to have ever seen one?

• 37:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes.

• 37:17Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 37:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes, because he has like the gift of sight.

• 37:20Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, the second sight, the shining, if you.

• 37:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 37:29Speaker 00

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• 38:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Fairies were said to take the nourishment out of food, and they would just leave the husks behind. They sometimes stole corn, and he wrote, "preying on the grain as do crows and mice." Their own homes had lamps and fires, often seen without fuel. They were rarely seen laughing. And according to Kirk, their mirth was more like the constrained grinning of a mort head. They were described-

• 38:25Danielle LaRock?

  What?

• 38:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know.

• 38:27Danielle LaRock?

  What are you trying to say to me?

• 38:31Danielle LaRock?

  Cassie, what's a mort?

• 38:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know what a mort head is, but he said it.

• 38:36Danielle LaRock?

  No, his- Their something is like a mort house.

• 38:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  What? Their mirth.

• 38:40Danielle LaRock?

  Sorry, their mirth.

• 38:47Danielle LaRock?

  Sorry, I need to look it up.

• 38:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know what a mort head is.

• 38:50Danielle LaRock?

  Mirth. Well, let's start with mirth, because that's the first part.

• 38:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think that's like their being.

• 38:56Danielle LaRock?

  Their essence?

• 38:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 38:58Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, "Mirth is a literary or formal term for great amusement and happiness, often expressed through laughter. It's found in classical literature from older texts." Yeah, no shit. We know.

• 39:12Danielle LaRock?

  What is a mort head? Like M-O-R-T?

• 39:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 39:17Danielle LaRock?

  A mort head is likely a misspelling of death's head. No, that's not true. Oh, "The earliest known use of the noun mort head is in the mid 1500s." Okay.

• 39:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 39:27Danielle LaRock?

  We're kind of, we're on something. "Its earliest evidence for mort head is from around 1554, from the Oxford English Dictionary." It doesn't go on. It's like, that's when it was-

• 39:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's a lost, it's lost.

• 39:39Danielle LaRock?

  It's been lost to time. It does say it was used in Scottish English.

• 39:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, that tracks for all of this. A mort head is whatever you want it to be.

• 39:50Danielle LaRock?

  Use your imagination.

• 39:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Imagination. Well, anyway, he further explained that the fairy world was the source of the gift of second sight. The second sighters or seers were often men in the Highlands. And as I said earlier, Kirk considered himself among them.

• 40:10Danielle LaRock?

  That's sorry. God, I keep interrupting. I'm so sorry. But that's just so interesting because generally, when we think of people with psychic abilities or second sight or tapping into the unsee- they're women.

• 40:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And here, they're thought of to be men.

• 40:27Danielle LaRock?

  The seventh son particularly.

• 40:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes.

• 40:29Danielle LaRock?

  So not the seventh child.

• 40:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Seventh son.

• 40:33Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 40:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Poor moms. It's like, I must have a seer 10 children later.

• 40:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Seers often had terrifying encounters with fairies, especially during the four quarters days of the year. So each, like, the years split up in four quarters, and that day that marks the first quarter, the second quarter, the third quarter, the fourth quarter, that was when seers were known to have encounters with fairies more often.

• 41:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  So in case you were wondering, in Scotland, the four quarter days are Candlemas on February 2nd, Whit Sunday on May 15th, Lammus on August 1st, and Mardmas on November 11th, which, for the super curious, is different from the English four quarter days, which are Lady Day on March 25th, Midsummer Day on June 24th, Michaelmas on September 29th, and December 25th, AKA Christmas. So it's kind of different points in the year. Seers were believed to have keener senses, much like animals. In Kirk's words, they were like a deer that sense out a man at a great distance, or the raven whose brain has been clarified by the high and subtle air.

• 41:49Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, that's why they're so smart. They're so high up there.

• 41:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, there's no oxygen up there.

• 41:54Danielle LaRock?

  Clear air up there.

• 41:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 41:57Danielle LaRock?

  I didn't think of that before.

• 42:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  In The Secret Commonwealth of Elves and Fairies, Kirk detailed the belief that every human being possesses a double man or a co-walker. Think of this as a dual self or a spiritual counterpart. The double man walked with a person invisibly all their life until the human host died, at which point the double man would disappear. If a person's co-walker was seen separate from the human while the human was alive, it signified that the person would die very soon. Kirk's book fascinated many, including Sir Walter Scott, but it was Kirk's obsession and his alleged transgression that secured his lasting infamy. Robert Kirk was often seen walking from the manse to Dune Hill,

• 42:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  one of his favorite spots. The local mountain people considered the fairy hills dangerous. Kirk was well aware that crossing the threshold of a known fairy abode was a transgression. He had even interviewed a woman named McIntyre, who had fallen asleep on the fairy hill and afterwards became melancholyous and silent and was known to hardly ever see, smile, or laugh. This should have served as a clear warning to the reverend of the risks because they believed that her stay there just changed her and people who went there were changed permanently. But he didn't. He wasn't afraid of this change that people said and this dark lore around fairies and darker magic that was at play. So they thought that this

• 43:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  significantly was a problem, that he was kind of inviting something bad to happen for him. But then on top of that, he wrote a book detailing all of the fairy's secrets. According to local belief, by putting the secrets of the spirit down on paper, Kirk annoyed the fairies. Even if the book wasn't published until much later, the mere act of writing the secrets was considered enough to lead to his death. So on May 14, 1692, when Robert Kirk was found dead on Dune Hill, dressed only in a nightgown, there was lots of speculation. While some acknowledged the possibility that Robert suffered a sudden collapse or died of natural causes, local lore and tradition overwhelmingly holds

• 44:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  that the fairies were responsible. The story doesn't end with Robert's burial. Reverend Patrick Graham, Kirk's successor in Aberfoyle, recorded the pervasive local belief that Kirk was not truly dead. People were convinced that a stalk of his body had been left behind on the hill while his actual body and soul were imprisoned in fairyland. Kirk's prison is said to be the great Lone Scots pine on the hill's summit. His spirit was believed to be trapped, serving the fairy queen as a chaplain. In a ghostly turn, Kirk was said to have appeared to his cousin Graham. Kirk had died while his second wife Margaret was pregnant. He told Graham he was not dead, but captive in fairyland.

• 44:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Kirk provided instructions for his release, saying that this was his last chance. When his poshmasch child was brought to the manse for baptism, Kirk said he would appear in the room. He instructed Graham to throw the knife, or dirk, over the apparition's head, and Kirk would be freed. Otherwise, he would be lost forever. Cold iron, such as a dirk or dagger, was widely known as a defense against fairies. So Graham brought the dirk as instructed. And true to his words, Kirk appeared at the christening. However, Graham was so astonished by the sight of Kirk that he couldn't move. When Graham failed to throw the knife, the opportunity was lost. The specter vanished, and Kirk was left captive in fairyland for all of eternity.

• 45:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Kirk's family appeared resigned to his fate. His oldest son Colin reportedly said, "Father has gone to his own kind." Another version of the story suggests Kirk continuing trying to escape, appearing to people in dreams, and telling them he could still be saved if a dirk was stuck into his great chair, which was still kept at the manse. Unfortunately, no child seems to have been christened at the manse after 1692. So, the chance was lost.

• 46:11Speaker 00

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• 46:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Adding to the ghoulishness of the story, one researcher noted that Kirk's will was signed on May 13, 1692, the day before his death. Some say this suggests he may have anticipated his own demise. Another piece of lingering lore says that when travelers cross the hump-backed bridge near Dune Hill, that they might feel something touching their back. This is said to be the soul of Robert Kirk, begging to be freed. Despite the rumors and lore, that of course, his body wasn't his, Kirk was buried at Aberfoyle Old Parish Churchyard. Visitors can find his earthly grave in the churchyard near the roofless ruins.

• 47:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  His memorial, a slab of red sandstone, notes in Latin that he was a luminary of the Hiberian tongue and the pastor of Aberfoyle, who died May 14, 1692, aged 48. Notably, the gravestone visible today may not be the original one, and some believe the coffin may have been filled with stones, not Kirk's body, reinforcing the legend that Kirk was spirited away by fairies. The original writing on the stone mentioned Kirk's work translated the Psalms into Gaelic. However, it makes no reference to his work on fairies. This is probably because in the 17th century, witchcraft was still being condemned. A small, modern plaque has been erected, and it discreetly notes that the gravestone

• 48:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  of Robert Kirk, the "fairy minister," is inside. And... With his burial, I wanted to kind of do a little bit of a shout out to your cemetery series that you've been doing on Instagram, because I wanted to talk about some of the symbols that are on Robert Kirk's headstone.

• 48:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yay, okay, I'm so excited.

• 48:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  And as you have explained, images and symbols on headstones correspond to certain time periods and reflect religious beliefs and philosophical attitudes of the people. In New England, for instance, the death's head started popping up in the late 1600s, correlating with the Puritans' grim attitudes towards death and human mortality. The shift away from this not-so-uplifting imagery to winged cherubs or soul effigies came with changing religious views that embraced the hope for resurrection and the soul's flight to an immortal afterlife. The symbols on Kirk's grave, however, merged the sober reality of his clerical life with the dangerous ambiguity of his true fate. The slab bears three specific designs.

• 49:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  The first one is etched thistle. This represents Robert Kirk's proud Highland background. Then, there's the shepherd's crook, which symbolizes Reverend Roberts' calling as a pastor. Finally, there's a dagger. This is thought to be a coded reference to the fairy story. It is said to represent the dirk that Graham was supposed to throw, but never did. Some sources, however, suggest the dagger is a templar sword linking Kirk to Masonic connections. The story of the fairy minister, Reverend Robert Kirk, and the mysteries of Dune Hill are far from forgotten. They remain central to the history and myth of Aberfoyle. Today, the walk in Robert Kirk's footsteps, which begins at the Aberfoyle parking lot

• 49:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  and passes his graveyard, is a well-known local path. Visitors still make the ascent to Dune Hill, a place of historical and spiritual significance. They visit the lone Scots pine, aka the fairy tree, which is still adorned with ribbons and wishes tied to the branches in memory of Robert Kirk. The persistence of the Kirk legend reminds us that belief in the unseen and folklore in the she in worlds beyond our own is an enduring preoccupation. Kirk's texts argue the existence of the fairy people proved the existence of the spiritual realm and fought the skepticism of his age. His ultimate fate, whether natural death or supernatural abduction, has ensured his

• 50:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  argument lives on. The celebration of Halloween or Sawen is defined by these dark ancient traditions. It's the time of year when the boundaries blur, the spirits are believed to run rampant, the costumes, the pranks, and the acknowledgement that something or someone otherworldly might be lurking just out of sight is inspired by the life and of course, the work of Robert Kirk. As you enjoy the festivities this Halloween, the jump scares and the laughs, take a moment to ponder the very real, serious beliefs behind the origins of the holiday. Remember the story of Reverend Robert Kirk, the man who walked out onto a hill near his church, found his purpose, and then found his doom. And when you look into the dark wood, keep in mind the lingering stories of Ministers Pine.

• 51:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Because as the old warnings go, when you cross the humpback bridge, you might just feel a burden settle on your back and that burden might just be the soul of Robert Kirk begging to be freed from fairyland. And that is my Halloween story, kind of.

• 51:47Danielle LaRock?

  Sort of. That was great. I won't ever forget it, Fairy Minister. He's up here. I'm ready to, I'm ready to throw out some fun facts about him now forever because that was so intriguing.

• 52:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's just a weird, interesting story. And I just think it's so fun that he's still so remembered and that you can go to this national park, hike up this trail and you will see, and if you look up pictures of this fairy tree, it's covered with all of these.

• 52:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ribbons and just people paying homage to fairy lore and and a lot of people truly believe in it too. So it's not even just lore, but it's actual belief too.

• 52:28Danielle LaRock?

  So it's this location is the same location that they were saying to not go to before.

• 52:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes, and it's the same location he died and it is where they believe that this is the opening to the realm of the fairy world and that he is trapped in there.

• 52:46Danielle LaRock?

  Of course, yeah, he's serving the fairy queen.

• 52:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 52:49Danielle LaRock?

  As.

• 52:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  For all of eternity because he gave up her secrets. Of the mortheds.

• 52:55Danielle LaRock?

  Right, of that that we know all about.

• 53:01Danielle LaRock?

  Um, so interesting. Wow. Um, I loved it. I think it was fun and I think there's like some very real ways to just kind of get to the bottom of like we can exhume the coffin. Is there rocks in it or is there remains?

• 53:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Or is there a body in it? You know, you probably, maybe you could DNA test from like generations of family or something.

• 53:26Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, but like, where's the fun in that? So I get being like, you know what? We'll never, there's no way to ever know.

• 53:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  There's no way to ever know and he could be with the fairies till.

• 53:35Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, it's like we and okay, so just to be clear, when they found his remains allegedly, because what, what did you say? It was a stalk or something? I just pictured like, I pictured being like, yeah, it actually like that wasn't his body. It was just like, like, I just imagined somebody dressing up like a scarecrow and like laying it like to look like him and being like, they took his actual body and they just left this.

• 54:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's just this. From my understanding is that it was, they thought it was a replica of his body that wasn't real.

• 54:10Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, but a 1692 replica, I just envisioned.

• 54:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  The fairies left it though, not humans.

• 54:16Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, yes. How could I get that wrong? Right? So it was really, it was very realistic.

• 54:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  It had to. Have happened. Yeah.

• 54:26Danielle LaRock?

  So he let, so they found him there in his nightgown. So clearly had like walked out at ten point in the night over to that area and died.

• 54:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 54:37Danielle LaRock?

  Or was killed for revenge for.

• 54:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, because from, from what I gathered, there was no obvious signs of why he would die looking at him. So it's not like he was obviously murdered or anything like that. He was just found mysteriously deceased.

• 54:53Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 54:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Which I mean, he might have just had a heart attack and died. And that's the end of all the lore, but that's not fun either.

• 55:00Danielle LaRock?

  No, how, where's the fun in that? Um, it reminds me a lot. I wonder if you, um, and this isn't going to make sense to anyone who has not read the book, but our book club book the other month, Smother Moss.

• 55:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, yes.

• 55:12Danielle LaRock?

  It reminds me of the, the grandmother that in her nightgown, she just walked out and was found dead in her nightgown.

• 55:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's so true. I didn't even link that together. And it was also with some like weird supernatural beings at play.

• 55:28Danielle LaRock?

  Exactly. That's the only thing I was thinking of during that whole thing, which Smother Moss was a, as this episode, it was a weird time.

• 55:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was a weird time.

• 55:38Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. I'm not saying this episode was weird. I actually quite enjoyed it.

• 55:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think it was weird. I think it was weird and fun. And I was kind of with this episode, I kind of wanted to do something that was more, you don't have to believe any of the story. You can, if you think it's fun too, but it's kind of more of just a, just giving a acknowledgement to the lore that surrounds Halloween and that whether you believe it or not, Halloween does come from real beliefs. And I think one of the fun things about Halloween, which I didn't know until years ago, and I mentioned it very slightly at the beginning, was that people dressed up in these costumes to scare evil spirits. So when you dress up in these costumes and you're dressing up as death or a vampire

• 56:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  or whatever, people really did these kinds of things to try and scare what they thought were evil spirits and keep them away from them, which I just think is kind of funny because now we're like dressed as Playboy bunnies and.

• 56:36Danielle LaRock?

  The way they would shake their heads at 2012 Danielle College.

• 56:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  I didn't scare away any evils. Actually, I might have scared away some evil spirits. They're like, we can't touch that.

• 56:48Danielle LaRock?

  I, yeah, I was, that was also, yeah, that's an embarrassment to the origins of Halloween, for sure. Um, I don't think I've ever dressed up as anything truly like scary, scary. But

• 57:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't think I have either, but I would love.

• 57:06Danielle LaRock?

  I would love.

• 57:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Have you ever participated in, what is it called? Like all mischief's night or mischief night? It's like the night

• 57:14Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, the night before.

• 57:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Halloween, whenever one of them goes out and you like egg houses or teepee. Mayhem night, yeah.

• 57:24Danielle LaRock?

  What is it?

• 57:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ah, I'm trying to think. It's like mischief night or something.

• 57:29Danielle LaRock?

  How do we have a podcast?

• 57:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Night before.

• 57:32Danielle LaRock?

  We don't know anything.

• 57:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  We know zero things.

• 57:37Danielle LaRock?

  Night before Halloween name.

• 57:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mischief night. Mischief night, yeah. Mischief night. I remember I could not wait to participate because it's a big thing of where I grew up. And I grew up in a really small town, but I remember once you got to a certain age, you could participate. It was basically whatever age your parents let you go out at night with your friends instead of having them as a chaperone.

• 57:59Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 57:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  And I remember when I finally got to participate in it, and I think I only did it one year, maybe two years. It was like sixth grade or something. But we all went out and the big thing was you would shaving cream each other. Do, did you guys ever do that?

• 58:19Danielle LaRock?

  No.

• 58:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  So it was, it was welcomed in the community. I don't know if it was like super welcomed in the community, but basically all the teenagers would go out and they would shaving cream each other in this area of downtown. Um, that was kind of like deemed okay. And you would just have these shaving cream fights. And people did toilet paper, but a lot of people didn't really like that because it was leaving trash around and shaving cream would just kind of wash away. Um, but you would shaving cream cars and.

• 58:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Only with permission, hopefully, uh, where you could like draw things on their windows and stuff and you would do shaving cream fights. And you would just run around at night around town, just like having fun as teenagers.

• 59:02Danielle LaRock?

  I know. I never was aware that that was, if that was a thing in Merrimack, I was not aware of it.

• 59:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know if it's still a thing.

• 59:11Danielle LaRock?

  Down the road.

• 59:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Just down the road. It was, it was big. I was so excited when I would see all the like older kids out doing it. Like one year I'm gonna shaving cream.

• 59:21Danielle LaRock?

  It's, it's so funny because when I looked up what it was called mischief night, it says that in several regions, it, it has like several regional names. But like mischief night is kind of the overarching one. New England's and Ohio's, interestingly, is called cabbage night. Because it says it's used in places like New England and Ohio, referring to the tradition of throwing rotten vegetables at houses. What the wor- in the world?

• 59:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  I kind of actually remember that.

• 59:52Danielle LaRock?

  No.

• 59:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  I swear, I actually kind of remember that.

• 59:55Danielle LaRock?

  Aside from the shaving cream portion of the night?

• 59:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, like I have when it brack- it brought back a very buried memory of a friend with like old carrots.

• 1:00:07Danielle LaRock?

  Carrots? Why would they use that?

• 1:00:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know.

• 1:00:10Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like tomatoes would be the move or cabbage, I guess.

• 1:00:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  There might've been tomatoes.

• 1:00:14Danielle LaRock?

  Interesting.

• 1:00:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:16Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like, okay, that's another, that's another trivia thing. What is mischief night called in New England? Cabbage night?

• 1:00:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Or what is the night before Halloween called mischief?

• 1:00:27Danielle LaRock?

  Mischief night.

• 1:00:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Or a cabbage night, depending on where you live. I've never heard of cabbage night, it being called cabbage night.

• 1:00:33Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. Maybe this is the, I don't know. What are the sources here? I'm not even sure. Uh, University of Wisconsin, Madison.

• 1:00:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  I mean, they must know.

• 1:00:44Danielle LaRock?

  They must know.

• 1:00:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  What are they doing right about New England, though?

• 1:00:47Danielle LaRock?

  And Ohio, when.

• 1:00:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  They're neither.

• 1:00:52Danielle LaRock?

  What gives them the right? I'm not sure. Um, okay. Wow. Cool.

• 1:00:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, we hope everyone is having a fun spooky season. We hope you enjoy your Halloween in our safe. Um, and if you're participating in mischief night, you're not doing anything too, um, unruly.

• 1:01:07Danielle LaRock?

  Unless it's sanctioned by the town, I guess. It's so, it's just so funny that was like, hey, we know you're gonna get into trouble. So here's this little corner of town where you guys can just go at it with shaving cream.

• 1:01:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like shaving cream each other. Have a nice time. And I remember we would go to school the next day and the whole playground would be covered in shaving cream unless it rained. But the whole, you would just see like these big globs of shaving cream everywhere from the night before.

• 1:01:37Danielle LaRock?

  I would love to hear if people have similar story. Cause I, and again, right before this recording, I mean, the reason we're chatting so much today, I think is because we haven't talked much this weekend and

• 1:01:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:51Danielle LaRock?

  So we're literally just catching up. Yeah. But, uh, I, I said, I feel, cause you're like, what'd you do this weekend? Which is rare because we usually talk throughout the weekends. And I truly drew a blank. I had to look at my Google calendar to be like, what did I do? I feel like I'm having some like memory issues. So maybe there was stuff going on that I just truly don't recall. So I would really love to know if people have stories of mischief night things because

• 1:02:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:22Danielle LaRock?

  I really don't remember it being a thing, or maybe I just wasn't invited, which is possible.

• 1:02:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Maybe. I feel like even if you weren't invited, I feel like you would have known about it though.

• 1:02:32Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure. I don't know much. I'm not in the, like, I'm anytime, there's a lot of circumstances where people will be like, oh, did you hear about this? Do you know about this or whatever? And I truly have no idea what they're talking about. So when I do speak to you about certain things, you're like, I've never heard that. I feel great about that because it's my one dynamic in relationship where I'm the person in the know. At least I feel like that. Oh, that reminds me. I'm gonna send you a Dracula reel.

• 1:03:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh yes, I need to see that.

• 1:03:04Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. All right. Um, yeah.

• 1:03:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  On that note.

• 1:03:06Danielle LaRock?

  More to talk about, but let's just.

• 1:03:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Go watch Dracula participate in mischief night. Enjoy.

• 1:03:12Danielle LaRock?

  Comes out in February.

• 1:03:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  In February. Go read Dracula.

• 1:03:17Danielle LaRock?

  And yeah. And enjoy the view. And watch your back. No, but watch your. But watch your back. We're out of practice. Who are we? Happy Halloween. Happy Halloween. Bye, everyone. Bye. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories, join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark Book Club, live streams, Discord, and much more. If you prefer to watch our episodes, video episodes are now available on YouTube. If you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform. And to follow along with all our adventures,

• 1:04:00Danielle LaRock?

  you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and X at National Park After Dark.

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