What Every Cancer Patient Should Know: Lessons from a Survivor | Jace Yawnick

When Jace Yawnick was diagnosed with cancer at 25, he could’ve given up. Instead, he built a platform that’s helping thousands of cancer patients. In this inspiring episode of “The Dr. Hyman Show,” Jace opens up to me about his fight and why early detection matters. We also explore the role of metabolic health, personalized care, and the crucial connection between nutrition and cancer treatment. In this episode, we discuss: Jace’s unexpected diagnosis at age 25 with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, the symptoms he experienced, and the emotional challenges of facing a life-threatening illness at such a young age The crucial role that family, friends, social media, and even strangers played in supporting Jace emotionally, mentally, and practically during his treatment. Jace’s focus on eating clean, organic, nutrient-dense foods during treatment, and the mixed messages from his doctors regarding nutrition’s role in cancer recovery. Advancements like liquid biopsies and their potential to detect cancer early, empowering people to take a proactive approach to health. Jace’s decision to establish a nonprofit to support other cancer patients, focusing on financial aid and fostering connections between survivors and those currently battling cancer. View Show Notes From This Episode Get Free Weekly Health Tips from Dr. Hyman Sign Up for Dr. Hyman’s Weekly Longevity Journal Which diet really gives you the best shot at optimal health? On Wednesday December 4th, Mark Hyman, MD will answer that question during The Diet Wars, a LIVE digital experience. Joined by Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, they’ll break down the science, debunk the myths, and share their expert perspectives to help you make the best choices for your health. Find out more and get tickets now at https://www.moment.co/markhyman This episode is brought to you by Rupa Health, BIOptimizers, ARMRA, and Our Place. Streamline your lab orders with Rupa Health. Access more than 3,500 specialty lab tests and register for a FREE live demo at RupaHealth.com. Until November 28th, BIOptimizers is offering 25% off sitewide. Go to Bioptimizers.com/Hyman and use code Hyman10. Save 15% on your first order of ARMRA Colostrum and unlock the power of 400+ functional nutrients. Just visit TryARMRA.com/Mark or use code MARK. Upgrade your cookware, appliances and more with Our Place. Head over to FromOurPlace.com and enter code HYMAN at checkout to receive 10% off site-wide.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Coming up on this episode of The Doctor's Pharmacy.

• 0:02Speaker 01

  I'm lucky to have had such a tremendous support system. And I can recall my oncologist, after he diagnosed me, he said, "Are you close by to family? Because if you're not, you need to move wherever they are right away."

• 0:19Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Before we jump into today's episode, I'd like to note that while I wish I could help everyone via my personal practice, there's simply not enough time for me to do this at this scale. And that's why I've been busy building several passion projects to help you better understand, well, you. If you're looking for data about your biology, check out Function Health for real-time lab insights. If you're in need of deepening your knowledge around your health journey, check out my membership community, Hyman Hive. And if you're looking for curated and trusted supplements and health products for your routine, visit my website, Supplement Store, for a summary of my favorite and tested products. Hey, everyone, it's Dr. Mark Hyman. Everyone wanted to ask me your health and wellness questions directly. Well, here's your chance. I have an exciting exclusive event coming up that you could be part of as a thank you

• 1:03Dr. Mark Hyman?

  for being a loyal listener on The Doctor's Pharmacy. On Wednesday, December 4th, I'm hosting a live digital experience called The Diet Wars, and I want you to join me. I'll be chatting with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, a board-certified family doc and New York Times bestselling author, as we tackle one of the biggest wellness questions out there. Which diet really gives you the best shot at optimal health? Should you be a vegan? Should you be a carnivore? Or somewhere in between? From paleo to vegan to carnivore and GLP-1s, we'll break down the science, debunk the myths, and share our expert perspectives to help you make the best choices for your health. And here's the best part. You'll be able to interact with me and chat with our amazing community in real time during the event. Plus, if you're a VIP ticket holder, you'll get to join an exclusive Q and A after-party

• 1:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  where you can ask us all your questions directly. The Diet Wars is a one-time-only experience that you don't want to miss, including limited edition merch. It's all happening live on Moment by Patreon, so mark your calendars for Wednesday, December 4th, at 9:00 PM Eastern, 6:00 PM Pacific, and head over to moment.co/markhyman to get your tickets. I can't wait to see you there.

• 2:19Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Welcome to Doctor's Pharmacy. I'm Dr. Mark Hyman. That's Pharmacy with an F. This is a place for conversations that matter. And if you have cancer, I've had cancer, know anyone with cancer, which pretty much covers almost all of us. I think you're going to find this conversation with this young, brave 26-year-old man, Jace Yawnick, who is right now in the middle of his own journey in cancer. He's got non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. He just finished chemo and radiation and he's waiting for his next scan. And we go deep into his story about how he navigated this condition, what he learned, and how he's actually become a dedicated advocate and leader in the fight against cancer. He's

• 3:01Dr. Mark Hyman?

  actually now focusing not just on himself, but he's literally in the middle of getting treated and he's turned his attention to help others, which is so moving and profound. He's committed to improving the lives of those affected by cancer through support, education, community engagement. He's such a deep thinker, even at the young age of 25. He's built an incredible network of volunteers and supporters, making a huge impact in the cancer community. And his vision is really to inspire others through community engagement and content, fostering hope and resilience for cancer patients and their families. So we're going to dive right into this conversation. I literally was in tears. Much of the conversation was just overwhelmed by the wisdom and intelligence and compassion of this young man who has been

• 3:44Dr. Mark Hyman?

  through hell and has turned that into something beautiful. So I think you're going to love this conversation. Let's jump right in. Well, Jace, welcome to the Doctor's Pharmacy Podcast. I'm really honored that you've decided to join and tell your story, which is compelling. It's moving. It's inspiring. And it's courageous that you've taken the opportunity to actually tell your story publicly through social media, through other avenues that you've basically created a whole movement to try to raise awareness around. How to help people with cancer. And you're now 26, right?

• 4:26Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And you were vigorous, healthy, energetic. You were kind of ripped. I saw you on Instagram before you got cancer. And then you were 25 and boom. Out of nowhere, you got a bunch of weird symptoms that were initially misdiagnosed and turned out to be a B-cell non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. And for those who are listening, that's a lymph cancer that is not uncommon. And in fact, my sister had it. And it really is one of those sort of things that can hit younger people. But we're also seeing a rise in cancer among younger people in general across other cancers. So just want to sort of honor you and also kind of invite you to start by sharing

• 5:10Dr. Mark Hyman?

  kind of the story of how this happened, what was going on in your life? And then how you began to kind of metabolize this experience and actually metamorphize it into something good.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, thanks for having me. I mean, I've been a fan of you for a while. So being here, I'll try to kind of suppress my butterflies. But it's incredible to be here. So thanks for having me on and allowing me to share my story. Man, I mean, where do I begin? The whole process has been a lot to digest. And I'm not quite at the finish line yet, but I'm very close, which feels good. But it really goes back to early 2023, where I started to notice sort of some fatigue

• 6:07Speaker 01

  that I really attributed to just work and stress. I feel like a lot of people are stressed and everybody's working. So I just kind of had this tough it out attitude and. Over the course of 2023, the symptoms got worse. What started as a light cough became an aggressive cough, so much so to the point where I was almost becoming sick, almost vomiting from how aggressive the cough was. And that was towards late 2023. But mix that in with I had shooting pains throughout my back and my arms,

• 6:47Speaker 01

  all of which very strange and all of which eventually led to me being diagnosed with Mount Hodgkin's lymphoma.

• 6:54Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, and, and you know, you had, you know, you, you had otherwise a great life. Things were going great and then just it sort of knocked you down. And, and in some ways, you know,

• 7:07Dr. Mark Hyman?

  for most people would just sort of knock them off their feet. And I, I imagine it did for you for a while. But what was it that kind of made you take this experience and then transform it into something that could be useful to other people?

• 7:20Speaker 01

  I honestly, it, it wasn't, you know, I got diagnosed and the first thought in my mind wasn't, I'm going to turn this into something great. It was, you know, I want to, I want to call my mom. I want to call my dad and I want them to tell me that everything's going to be okay. I was terrified and you're right, I, I had a great life. I still have a great life. And it, this just felt like, it, it felt like a means to something that could be the end to my life. And it's just, it was terrifying. And so it, it wasn't until after I talked to them and started going through the process

• 8:01Speaker 01

  that I really transformed this into what it is now. And it happened organically. I didn't say, I'm going to document this journey with the intention of sharing it with the world so that I could become, you know, viral or a public figure. It was so that people that were close to me could follow the journey and, and hear about what I was going through every day because I wasn't able to text everybody or call everybody and give them an update on, on where I was at.

• 8:32Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah. And so you just kind of naturally started sharing and then it kind of people started paying attention and all of a sudden you've got like almost a million Instagram followers, right?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  It was, it was shocking. I mean, the way it truly went was I posted initially on my personal Instagram, which just captured my close family, friends, acquaintances that I'd met through over the years, high school, college. And when I was diagnosed, I was super overwhelmed. I did not know what to do. So I posted that. I went on my Instagram and I posted, I was just diagnosed with cancer. I normally wouldn't share this kind of information, but I need support. And I just, that was it, just in text. And I started to get all these people reaching out to me, some of whom had been going through cancer themselves, which was a shock to me because these are people my age. Some of them had family members that

• 9:25Speaker 01

  were going through cancer. And what emerged from that was every day I would get phone calls and text messages. What's the update today? How are you doing? And as I was tackling all of this, that became overwhelming. So I resolved to form what today is J Speeds Cancer. And I posted it on my personal Instagram and I wrote, if you want to follow along as to my daily updates, I'm going to be posting them. I promise to be open and honest on them. And here's the account and go ahead and follow. So for a while it was, you know, me and a couple hundred of my, you know, family, friends, acquaintances and, and, you know, people

• 10:08Speaker 01

  that I knew. And I remember I was in the hospital as I was getting chemo, posting the updates as I normally would. And I woke up one morning and I opened my social media apps and there was 20,000 followers on one of them and, you know, 40,000 on Instagram. And I was blown away. I, I said to myself, I, I don't. I don't know what's going on here. What's happening? People want to watch this. So it was great.

• 10:39Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And, and, and one of the kinds of things that people were responding with, because, you know, cancer is one of those things, it's a little bit taboo, right? It's scared to talk about. People don't know how to talk to people with cancer or about cancer. You know, it's, it's sort of, it's got a stigma to it. And, and, and there's not a, there's often an outlet for people to actually have a conversation about it who have it. And you touched a nerve. So what were the kinds of things that people were sharing that had had already had cancer and gone through it, or they were maybe experienced this in their family? Like, what were the kinds of things you started to hear about?

• 11:16Speaker 01

  I, I heard so much. I mean, my DMs on Instagram were filled with cancer survivors sharing everything about their experience. It was details of what you should be doing, you know, make sure you're drinking enough water. Here, here's something that helped me reduce bone pain. That came from my, my white blood cell booster shot. Here are, here's something to prevent the mouth sores that you'll get. And then there were things that were just from the heart, which were, you're gonna make it. You're gonna be okay. Or it's okay that you're upset or angry right now.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Or if you need me, I'm here for you. And they would share their story. They would say, I was a stage four cancer survivor. Or, you know, I was supposed to only have a year left to live and I'm still alive 40 years later. You know, just the most incredible, invigorating, you know, educational, just, I mean, everything you can imagine. And I was, I mean, it's a huge reason why I was able to have the mindset that I do. Just all these people willing to help each other.

• 12:26Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So just in the, in the process of just sharing your story from a vulnerable place, it actually brought out all these people who then started offering you gifts and being a support system and sort of helping you actually navigate the process from everything, from how to deal with the physical challenges of getting chemo and radiation to

• 12:48Dr. Mark Hyman?

  How do you deal with the psychological and emotional and spiritual aspects of like having this diagnosis at 25 years old?

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was the most incredible thing. And coming from a place where, you know, growing up, I was consuming content and a lot of the stuff out there can can be negative, or you see people online and they're maybe not being so nice. To have so many people come to my profile and just showcase the love that people in this world have for each other was super eye opening and a testimony to the goodness that exists. And again, just I feel was a crucial part of of my recovery and me me beating cancer.

• 13:33Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And just for people listening, you know, we're recording this podcast in this really vulnerable window where you've finished radiation and chemotherapy, which is was what a six month process?

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, just about about six, seven months total.

• 13:48Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot to go through. You lose your hair, you, you know, you get sick. It's it's not fun. And and you're done like you did. You did that. You did the hard stuff. And now you're in this window of six to eight weeks waiting until you get your scan to tell you whether or not this is completely gone, or if there's still work to do. Right? So can you tell us what that experience is like being in this? And when we post this podcast, I'm sure we're gonna have an update. For those wondering, but what what's the experience like for you in the middle of all this?

• 14:26Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You reported like crying on your on your last radiation, you know, just sort of with relief and like it was very moving.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Every moment is is different in its own way. But right now I'm in this, I kind of call it, I want to call it a vacation.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  I'm in this middle world where I just, I can't even put into words how I'm feeling mentally about what I just went through. I think about it and it makes me. I mean, I have, I don't know if I should call it grief, but I mean, all this time that just I spent fighting for my life and staring death in the face every day and going through procedures and spinal taps.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  It's a lot to digest and every time I finish a checkpoint, a major treatment, like when I finished chemo and when I just recently finished radiation, a piece of that weight is lifted off my shoulders and it's, it's emotional and it's intense and it's, it just feels like I'm that much closer to being finished. So right now, I'm in this middle ground of I just finished the hard stuff. I just finished, you know, I'm done with the chemo, I'm done with the radiation, the fatigue is slowly getting better every day that I'm out of radiation, although it's still present and

• 15:54Speaker 01

  I'm just enjoying that. And on the other side, I do have this, this anxiety where I have all these what ifs, but I try my best to pay those no, no attention if I can. I try to steer clear of those and just focus on what I know right now and what I know today. And when I get to that point where I do the next PET scan and they, they tell me what I need to know, I'll, I'll process it then. But for right now, I'm just trying to enjoy the moment and and being here and being present.

• 16:28Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's beautiful. I mean, that's very courageous. I mean, it's, it's hard to, you know, stare death in the face and, and kind of meet, meet it directly. And, and I'm wondering what that experience was like for you and how it's sort of been through the last months of treatment. Cause I'm sure it's been up and down, like there's moments of, you know, kind of I got this and there's probably moments of like, oh, fuck, you know, how, how, can you share a little bit about your, your inner journey around this?

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  I I posted so much of the raw truth of what this looks like, but I wasn't able to grab a camera in every moment and grab my phone. And I had some really dark times and I've talked about that in a few videos I've posted, but there are days where I was getting chemo and I was so weak. And my dad's standing there with me and, you know, he's watching his son get another chemo bag hooked up. And he's staring and he's just wondering, you know, who's, you know, how can I take care of my son right now? You know, what can I do?

• 17:42Speaker 01

  And, you know, to see my dad in that spot where he wants to do everything. He wants to take this away from me, you know, he he wants nothing more than for me to be better. Um, and for him to not be able to do anything and for everybody to be so weak. Those are some dark times. Those are some dark moments. And you, all you can do is just do your best. That's it. You could just do your best in that moment. And you hug the people that you love and you thank the doctors and you thank the nurses that are there who are saving your life every moment and asking for nothing in return.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Um, and you just, you try to create this fortification mentally around yourself where it's, how can I be honest and truthful to myself and those around me? And then also, you know, how can I make sure that I'm being strong for myself? And I just, those were the moments that I embraced. But everything from those moments to, there were times where I was at home and it was just me and my girlfriend and I'd be in the bathroom and the chemo's making me sick and I'm throwing up and I have no energy and she's having to pick me up off the ground. My, you know, this woman that I love and, you know, helped me back to bed and I can't,

• 19:07Speaker 01

  I can't get back into bed. So, you know, getting, we had to get a stool so that we could step up on the stool and get a climb into bed. And it's, it was hard. I I don't have all the words for it, but, you know, there were, there were hard times, but there were, there were beautiful times too.

• 19:24Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Hmm. Wow. I'm very, very touched by that. I mean, I. You know, I, I, you know, can't really imagine. I mean, I haven't been through cancer, but certainly then as a doctor, helped many patients through it and, and my sister, as I mentioned, and you know, it's, it's, um, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of thoughts that go through your mind, you know, there's like, why me? And, you know, WTF?

• 19:53Dr. Mark Hyman?

  What caused this? And did I do something to make this happen? And what do I do now? And how do I prevent this from happening again? And right? All that stuff I imagine is going through your inner dialogue and, and, and being, you know, you know, being human, you know, our minds sort of tend to have a mind of their own and can sometimes hijack our, our kind of higher self, I would call it. So how, how did you sort of, sort of navigate that kind of terrain between your lower self and your higher self in this process?

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Like, like my inner mind? Like, how did I?

• 20:36Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Your inner dialogue is like, is like, yeah, you're having all this, these thoughts that are kind of not great, right? That may not be connected to reality that are just fear or belief or projection. And how, how do you kind of tap in for you? I was asking for you, how did you tap into this place where you were able to sort of persevere and end up where you are now?

• 20:59Speaker 01

  First and foremost, I'm, I'm lucky. I have so many friends and family close to me that are there for me and not just there for me mentally, but you know, physically are close by. Uh, my, my parents or my mom lives only 30 minutes away. My girlfriend lives with me. All my friends live in the area. So I'm, I'm lucky to have had such a tremendous support system. And I can recall my oncologist after he diagnosed me, he said, are you close by to family? Because if you're not, you need to move wherever they are right away.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  And it was true because you can't take this stuff on alone. So to answer your question, first thing that I need to give credit to are the people around me. They helped to quiet the other thoughts I was having. They helped to distract me from the pain. They helped to distract me from those thoughts that I didn't want to have. And in the moments where they weren't around and those thoughts were seeking in, you know, the fear for my mortality and what's next and what if this comes back even after you beat it and all these, all these what ifs. I leaned on the things that I loved. I love music. I have a big record collection. So I'd,

• 22:22Speaker 01

  I'd put on some music or I'd play some guitar. And outside of that, it was actually verbally speaking out loud what I wanted my mind to think. So in the really hard moments, I would go in my bathroom and I'd look in the mirror at myself and I would say, you are strong. You are beating cancer. You've beaten cancer already. You're gonna make it. You're happy. It's okay what you're going through and just continue to say these kind of affirmations. And I did this every day for six, seven months and I still do them. I mean, it made a notable impact on my mental

• 23:03Speaker 01

  health. And in those moments where I wanted to think about those other thoughts, I just boom, went right into that habit, went right into speaking those affirmations.

• 23:13Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah. I mean, that's a powerful thing is, is, is most of us don't feel in control of our minds and they run, or they run our lives and, and to be a 25 and have the, the presence of mind to go, okay, I know this is just a bunch of noise and I'm not going to let it take over. Yeah, it's going to come around now and then, but actually. I'm in charge here and I'm going to take a different diet. It's very moving, Jace. You know, I kind of wonder also about your journey in dealing with the probably overwhelming amount of advice you're getting, solicited and unsolicited from friends, family, strangers,

• 23:56Dr. Mark Hyman?

  or Dr. Google, or now Dr. Chat GPT.

• 24:02Dr. Mark Hyman?

  How do you kind of sort that out? Because with cancer, people go, what should I take? What should I eat? What supplements are good? How do I navigate all those things that could help me that I maybe should be doing? And how did you kind of navigate all that?

• 24:16Speaker 01

  Trial by fire, in some cases. I mean, I shouldn't say trial by fire, but I was overwhelmed. That is the word. You immediately go, I'm a, I'm a former and probably still, I'm a hypochondriac to the core. And it kind of runs in my family. So I've learned the lessons before with, I like how you said it, Dr. Google, where you're going online and, you know, typing in, what does this mean? And that's what I was doing before my diagnosis. They had just found the mediastinal masses. I'd never heard the word mediastinal. I don't even know if I'm pronouncing it correctly.

• 24:59Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's good. You're pretty good.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  Okay, all right.

• 25:02Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You're right on.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  I'll take your word for it.

• 25:06Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That means the area in your chest around your heart, basically.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, right here. So they identified, yeah, right. And I had to go to Google to figure that out.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  I started going to Google, looking up mediastinal shadows or masses. And, you know, you get all this information. What does this mean? Here's a few links here. And something that I've become aware of, and through this experience, is there is a enormous amount of information available on the internet, which we all know. But figuring out what's credible and what's not credible can be a harder task for somebody who doesn't know what they're looking for and where they're looking. So I learned really early on that looking stuff up online was

• 26:01Speaker 01

  Not helpful, and even if it was the correct information, it wasn't going to tell me the true diagnosis. It wasn't going to tell me the things that my oncologist and the other people that were doing the tests on my biopsy and all that, the information they had, the internet was never going to give that to me. So I learned really early to just not look up anything online. Maybe here and there I had lightly researched something if I didn't understand a term that my doctor had given to me. But I adapted into this habit of just relying on the team that I had. And I had a phenomenal team. I had a few doctors working with me.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  I had my family who would help me on the mental health side of things. And that was my core team, and that's who I relied on. And I avoided going to Google whenever I could because you just don't know what you're going to get. And more often than not, even if it gives you the correct answer, and I'm putting that in air quotes if you're listening, it's not going to be necessarily the answer that the credible person that you need to talk to would tell you.

• 27:11Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, for sure. And in terms of like things you incorporated, did you change your diet at all? Did you take any supplements? Did you just pause on everything and just do the chemo and radiation? What was your sort of way of navigating this?

• 27:26Speaker 01

  I first and foremost went and I had some habits that I wasn't a fan of even prior to being diagnosed with cancer. I was eating some foods that I know you would not be approving of. But I-

• 27:43Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Tell me you were drinking Coca-Cola.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  No, I wasn't drinking soda. But you know, I did enjoy some of maybe the more processed deli meats from time to time in a sandwich. I don't know. But even some, I mean candies I was having every now and again. But other than that, I was relatively healthier. I really would focus on eating USDA organic and non-GMO Project verified foods.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  So that's where I really leaned to. I mean, I went to the max on that side. I would only shop and purchase foods with, you know, healthier ingredients. And I didn't even just trust the label necessarily. I would actually look at the ingredients on the back and see what was in it. Is there added sugars or are there natural sugars? And just being really careful about what I put into my body, because I knew my body was fighting the fight of its life, being pumped, filled with chemotherapy, which was, you know, destroying a lot of, you know, everything in there, including the cancer. And so I wanted to make sure that I was giving it the nutrients

• 28:57Speaker 01

  it needed, but also not limiting the amount of food I was consuming. I've read different things, but to put it plainly, I was just trying to eat locally as much as possible. So going to farmer's market and then eating as clean as possible and then cutting out sugar also. That was a big one.

• 29:16Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So that all sounds completely reasonable. You just want to eat real nutrient dense food, not processed food, no sugar. It's just common sense. But I'm curious if your doctor said, what you eat doesn't matter, or you should probably eat healthy, or eat whatever you want. If you're losing weight, just have ice cream. Like, what did they say?

• 29:33Speaker 01

  It's funny you say that, because I was shocked when my doctors, a few of them told me, I had a few different doctors, all working together, which was great. And all of them had various opinions on certain things. But my main oncologist, when he talked about eating, his focus for me was eat whatever you can. I want you to make sure that you're eating, that you have the energy that you need, because your body needs nutrients. So very literally, he was saying, you know, you need to eat ice cream or things like that, you know, eat those foods, eat those things. And that was a bit of a shock to me. I mean, he wasn't

• 30:15Speaker 01

  saying to go crazy, but his focus was on getting me to eat as opposed to not eating. But when I would look up online, and I'm curious to hear your take on, I mean, I've read all these things about sugar, you know, being a fuel source for cancer and tumors. Is that the case?

• 30:35Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Are you asking me? Yes, actually. I think the data is very clear on this, that You know, insulin resistance and sort of metabolic syndrome, which is a result of eating sugar and refined carbohydrates drives most of the major cancers that we have today. Breast cancer, colon cancer, uterine cancer, prostate cancer, pancreatic cancer. And, and not so much the lymphomas. I don't think the lymphomas are directly related to diet in the same way that some of these other cancers are. But that said, there's just an enormous amount of data on how to help people who chemoirradiation using things like even

• 31:16Dr. Mark Hyman?

  a ketogenic diet. And, and the reason is that, that cancer only has one source of fuel, which is carbohydrates, whereas your body can run on fat or carbohydrates. So what, what the data has shown, and it's pretty clear on this, is that the side effects of chemoirradiation are far less when you do a ketogenic diet, and that the outcomes in terms of treatment response are better. So I think it, it, you know, in some cancers, it may be more or less important. And I imagine for non-hodgend lymphoma, it's probably like less important.

• 31:57Dr. Mark Hyman?

  But I think, I think it's, it's still, I think, a really important thing to think about. And I, you know, when I was in residency, I had a professor who was oncology, I did the oncology rotation. And I, I said, just, just because I was very interested in diet and nutrition, and even back then. And I said, how much of the cancers we're seeing are diet related? And I thought he would say like 10 or 20%. He was like 70%. And this was back in 1986 or something, you know? And I was like, wow. And I think it's, it's true. And it's just astounding to me that, that doctors still don't acknowledge this and leave their patients in a lurch, and worse, tell them to eat things that are maybe harmful to them. I mean, I

• 32:38Dr. Mark Hyman?

  actually had a patient who was a radiation oncologist from MD Anderson, which is the number one cancer center in the world. And, you know, I know people from other cancer centers might argue that, but it's, it's basically right up there. Like, you know, I think it's where Kate Middleton went. It's where like, you know, it's like, it's that place. And, and he was like, listen, I'm so frustrated because I, I completely understand what you do and I understand the importance of nutrition and I, um, sort of just kind of at a loss of what to do in the oncology space, even in MD Anderson, because the nutritionists and the doctors there are telling people to eat ice cream and eat whatever they want, you know?

• 33:19Dr. Mark Hyman?

  They're telling breast cancer patients not to eat tofu, but they're, it's like, because they're worried about the estrogen in the tofu, which doesn't actually work like that. But, uh, it's, it's pretty, uh, it's pretty shocking. So, um, I, I know the doctors you had are really good doctors and they're really good people and they know what they know really well. It's just what they don't know sometimes is a little shocking. And, um, and for people listening to this who, you know, are facing cancer, who are, who had cancer, who family members addressing this is really important. Getting your nutrition straight is key. And just eating a whole food nutrient dense diet, which you did is just, is like 80 to 90% of it. So I think that's so key. Um, but it, it, it is

• 34:04Dr. Mark Hyman?

  one of those areas that's in, in medicine, this is a challenging, um, you know, when, when, one of the things that, um, you know, uh, I think it's actually kind of exciting in medicine right now is this whole area of cancer screening, because it's very, very hard to, to just detect cancer early enough to really make a difference. Like you were, you had a, you know, you said you had a tumor the size of a softball before you figured it out.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  I, I actually had a doctor correct, I, I said it to him, uh, as my, actually my radiation oncologist. I, I shared with him, oh, that's, that's where my softball was. I joked about it. And he said, softball. And I, I thought he was gonna tell me it was a lot smaller. And I was like, oh, maybe it was dramatic to say something. He goes, no, it was probably closer to like a volleyball.

• 34:55Dr. Mark Hyman?

  A volleyball. Yeah. Right. Right. Like this big, right? So think about it, you know? And, and so often cancers are detected late and, you know, we do have screenings like mammograms and pap tests and colonoscopies and.

• 35:10Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You know, PSA prostate test for blood, uh, blood test, but they're not that great and they're not that sensitive. And what's really emerged, and I, I'm, I'm, I hope your, your, your oncologists are going to use this for you, is what we call liquid biopsy. Have you ever heard about this?

• 35:25Speaker 01

  I haven't.

• 35:26Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So, you know, you know what an actual biopsy is because you had one where they had to stick something in you and take a piece of tissue and it's a surgical procedure. It's not fun. This is basically using blood, a blood test, uh, that now we, we actually, um, have the ability to order this, uh, the, the, the main company that does this, it's called the multi cancer detection screening test. And it looks at over 50 different of the most common cancers. And through a simple blood sample can detect really early, a year to three, before you ever get any symptoms, before you can see it on other diagnostic scans. So it's, it's called Gallery, um, by, by Grail. And I use it now routinely with my patients. In fact, I just

• 36:08Dr. Mark Hyman?

  had a patient recently who had some weird symptoms and I'm like, oh, something's off. And I, you know, he would have gone on for quite a while, kind of like you, like you went to doctor to doctor, you, oh, you have reflux or you have a heartburn or you have a hernia, you have whatever. And, but I, you know, I, I, I, I kind of, kind of clued into something wasn't right. And I, you know, after 40 years in medicine, my intuition's pretty good. And I'm like, you need to get this test. And he went and did it. And he had actually a Hodgkin's lymphoma. And it showed up, um, on this blood test. And so, you know, these are kinds of things that are really important. And actually I co-founded a company called Function Health, where you can actually get this kind of testing. And I, I certainly do it as a routine test

• 36:53Dr. Mark Hyman?

  now for myself and I recommend it to my patients. But, you know, the question even when should you start? Like you start when you're 50 or 60, or you start when you're 30 or 20? Like, I don't think we really know. Uh, but, uh, it's, it's, uh, as cancer rates are rising in the young, younger population, as people are struggling to kind of learn how to navigate this, the beauty of this test is that it helps you detect it very early before it's spread anywhere. So. There are tumor specific liquid biopsies that your oncologist may want to talk to you about, but this is a part of now cancer care, which is these liquid biopsy screenings, rather than just waiting for a PET scan. Or, you know, another patient I had who was

• 37:33Dr. Mark Hyman?

  given a clean bill of health, but a shaman told her, they thought her breast cancer maybe had come back. And she told me the story, I'm like, gee, I don't know, but let's check this multi-cancer detection screening test and turn up. She had it occurred and her doctors hadn't found it. So I think it's, you know, just for people out there listening, we're, you know, concerned about cancer, who perhaps want to get ahead of it and do screening. I think this is a whole new era of oncology. So, and then there's, you know, lots of other new therapies emerging like dietary ketogenic diet therapies and other therapies that are emerging around immunotherapy. So I think it's, you know, cancer's been

• 38:14Dr. Mark Hyman?

  in, you know, one of those tough things for medicine. Luckily, your cancer is one of those 100% curable cancers where, you know, the odds of you living a long life and dying of old age are high. So that's good. But we're going to, you know, make sure we keep track of you and follow what's going on. Is there any, anything you want to share about, about, you know, the, the sort of the effect that actually have you actually creating JSP's cancer and you sharing your story and you trying to help others even while you're in the middle of, you know, sort of fighting for your life, you know, what was that like? And how did that, how did that impact you?

• 38:58Speaker 01

  It was part of my healing in a huge way. I, once I kind of started to gain this following, I didn't know, it happened overnight. Like it happened over the course of a few weeks and it was overwhelming. I mean, I was in the middle of this intense cancer treatment and then all of a sudden, boom, there are hundreds of thousands of people watching you, you know, there's like a pressure that kind of goes with that. And I just knew to myself, I just was like, I'm just going to keep openly and honestly sharing this story because at this point, making the videos had become extremely therapeutic to me.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  And as we discussed before, there were all these people that were sharing their experiences as survivors. But on the whole other side of this, there was this community of people that were going through treatment at the same time as I was. And I had not realized that there was this whole other section of people until they started messaging me. And it became this really unique bond between cancer patients. Every time I'd see another cancer patient person, there was just this unspoken kind of, I know what you're going through, you know what I'm going through, we're in this together at the same time, kind of mentality.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  And having that even through social media and messaging.

• 40:29Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So Jace, you know, I'm just very curious about, you know, your experience of not only being a patient, but starting a movement, jacebeatscancer.org, and how, how you're serving others, right? By volunteering and sharing your story and supporting others. How did that impact you through this whole process? Cause you know, you think, God, you know, I have cancer, like I'm the victim, right? I'm, help me. But you were actually out there supporting other people and, and you actually created a whole platform for people to get involved and to support each other and create community. And it's just quite moving. And I'm wondering how that, how that impacted your own journey through this process?

• 41:13Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Cause you're still, still in it, right? So.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, it's, it was, it happened organically. Uh, once I started to have this, this following that just kept growing as I was going through treatment, as I shared with you before, there's this whole, one side of, of the group that were cancer survivors. And this group was there giving me tips and advice on how to, you know, relieve pain here and what I wish I did here and, you know, guiding me through this process. And on the other side, there was also this community of other cancer patients going through their own cancer journey. And they would start messaging me or, or writing letters.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  And we all started interacting with as many of them as I could. And I realized I have this big platform now. I want to use this for something positive.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  And I, in so many scenarios through this, have realized that I'm so lucky. And one of those areas was I have the insurance to cover a lot of my cancer bills. And that's, that's something that I'm very fortunate to have. It's still, there was a lot of costs involved. But when you look at some of these bills, I mean, they, they will, they will follow you for the rest of your life. If, if you don't have the insurance to cover them. And so I decided that I wanted to start a nonprofit organization for a few reasons. One was to just find ways to continue to unite this community of cancer survivors and cancer patients

• 42:58Speaker 01

  and people impacted by cancer, the advocates, the family members, and find a place where we can all connect and to help one another.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  And we do that through, we have Facebook group and there's educational resources that are posted and, and all of that. And I'm still working out how to do all of it, but fortunately I have some people helping me. But the other side of it was also people wanted to donate to support me. And as much as I appreciated that, I, I am lucky and I, I had a lot of it covered and I, I was going to figure out the rest of it. But I wanted to help the people that didn't have that insurance to cover their, their treatments, these extremely costly treatments. So that's what, what led me to initially create this organization.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  And anybody who was looking to donate to me, I, I told them I would love for them to donate so that we could give it to somebody else who needs it. And we've been doing that for, ever since, I believe, my second cycle of, of chemotherapy and.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Just been working with hospitals to identify patients that are in need of that financial assistant. And not all of them need financial assistance. Some of them are looking for a bone marrow transplant match. So, you know, getting it out to the community about their story and hopefully finding them a match. So it's been this growing, uh, organic kind of process, but all centered around the ideals of just helping other people with cancer.

• 44:33Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Hmm, it's so beautiful and it just, um, i- it's like how your tragedy has turned into, in some ways, a blessing for, for so many and also for yourself. It's like this sort of, we never know kind of when we go through these challenges and we go through these various issues, you know, how we navigate that. But, um, it's just, it's just beautiful to see how you, how you've done this, how you've navigated it.

• 45:03Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Is there anything else you'd love to share about your story, about, you know, what you've been through, what you're going through?

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, there, I mean, there's, there's so much that, you know, I could always continue to talk about with, with this journey. But the biggest thing for me has been this passion to, to help other people. And I say that because before cancer, I admittedly was very self-focused. I was really focused on progressing, you know, my own career and getting to this level and, you know, making this much money or something like that and, you know, getting the watch or the car. And I had this experience, um, that I made a video about.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  And my dad, who, who's my hero, he came over to my home in, in Florida and he lives in Boston. And this was right before I was gonna start my second cycle.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  And he sat down with me and said, Jace, we need to do some paperwork. And he, he's always been the responsible, you know, helping me to learn finances and budgeting and.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  And he said, we need to go through this paperwork where we need to understand some things. I said, okay. So he asked the first question and said, in the case that you're unable to, you're unresponsive. What, who do you want to be in charge of your, your medical decisions moving forward? What do you want those medical decisions to be if you were had to be put on life support? How long? All these things. And at this point, I was a wreck. I was crying as my dad was reading to me, you know, potential outcomes of what I was about to go through. And then

• 47:10Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's a conversation you have with a 90 year old, not a 25 year old, right?

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. But that's, you know, we had, we had to do the paperwork and that's my dad, you know, he's, he wants to make sure all the ducks are in a row and, and it's good. It's, it's taught me a lot. And then he moved on from that paperwork and looked at me and said, Jace, we need to, we need to write your will.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  And I, him and I at this point were both just in full tears. And I had to look at my dad and tell him about all the stuff that I had, that I wanted him to have, or my mom to have. And I realized in that moment that I would, would have given it all away just to have some more time with my dad. You know, that stuff doesn't, doesn't matter.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  And

• 48:06Speaker 01

  we, we finished it and we said, we're not going to need this will. We're going to be okay. But in that moment, I realized the importance of what truly matters and, and for me, that's helping other people, you know, it's not getting the stuff. It's, it's helping the people around me that, that needed and. And so that's, that's the one thing that really has stuck with me through this.

• 48:33Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That is one powerful lesson, Chase. It's something most of us don't get to learn until it's too late.

• 48:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  We're so focused on success and accumulation and money and kind of missed the boat on relationships and family and community and you know, serving others, uh, which is actually what being human really is about. It's not about, you know, getting more followers on Instagram or making more money or having this car or this house or this career. It's, you know, it, it, you know, I, I, I heard Warren Buffett recently talk about time and he said, you know, I have enough money. I can buy anything I want. The one thing I can't buy is time. And, you know, it's the most precious thing we have and how we spend it,

• 49:26Dr. Mark Hyman?

  who we spend it with, what we spend it doing is consequential. It matters. And you know, you, you've had to face that at a really young age and it sounds like the Jace that got cancer is very different than the Jace that has gone through the process and is now on the other side of it. And, and maybe you can talk a little bit about more, more about this because I think it sounds like, you know, you were a great kid and great guy. You're doing cool stuff, but you know, kind of this whole reoriented your life. And I'm just sort of wondering what, what you see as now, having gone through this, how you imagine the rest of your life?

• 50:06Speaker 01

  My stepmother is a, she's a death doula with, so she frequently meets with people at the end of life and helps them, you know, through what that looks like. And she shared with me. This idea midway through treatment where she said, Jace, you have to mourn the loss of your former self because the person you will be after this experience will not be the same person. And this was a hard concept for me to grasp at first. I was saying to myself, like, I'm Jace, I'm still Jace, I'm gonna still be Jace on the other side.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  And there, there's a part of that that's true, but she was absolutely right. I, I've become a different person and the values that this new version of myself has are, are different. And what life looks to me moving forward holds those ideals. It's the ideas of any time I can spend time with my family, people that are still with me today, I want to do that. I want to make it more of a priority to spend those moments, being with those people. I want to spend more moments doing the things I love. I also want to spend more moments, maybe doing the things that aren't, you know, in my comfort zone.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  I always would, would stretch it a little bit, but there are opportunities that we get that were held back by, you know, with anxiety or fear or, or, you know, addiction to comforts that we have. And I just, somebody asked me, if you had a second shot at life, what would that look like? And he said, that's the question you should be asking yourself because you're gonna get a second shot at life here. And so I'm, I'm taking that and, and I'm going with it. And so if I can do the fun stuff, I will and spend time with my dad and my mom and my family, just, those are, those are the new ideals that are important to me, not,

• 52:13Speaker 01

  not how can I get enough money to buy a Rolex or, you know, do all this or get my sports car, you know, that stuff isn't, isn't there.

• 52:21Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, that's, that's amazing. I, you know, we, we all get these lessons and, you know, the, the person that you, they are like at the core, kind of led you to actually be able to go through this in the way you have and turn it into something that not only changed you, but it's changed so many people's lives and.

• 52:45Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Wow, I mean, I'm kind of speechless, honestly, and just kind of moved and touched and just honored that you've shared your story with us and we'll be sure to follow along and and everybody, if they want to follow more about you, they can go to jaysbeatscancer.org, follow you on Instagram and and keep on with your story. I encourage everybody to do. And I think, you know, for those listening, I imagine know some of this conversation might be hard to listen to and challenging, but cancer is one of those things. It's like, kind of comes out of nowhere. And it's, it's, it's, you know, it's not something that people have a really

• 53:26Dr. Mark Hyman?

  solid way of relating to in the sense of, you know, am I going to get it? You know, who's going to get it? And, and I think, you know, it's part of the reason that I I co-founded this company, Function Health, was to sort of empower people with the tools to be proactive around their health and to to screen for their their biomarkers and to check for this cancer screening, which is now available. And, you know, you go to functionhealth.com and forward slash mark and you can learn more about what it is. But it's, you know, I, you know, it's, it's something we don't want anybody to have to go through. Like, you went through it, you you turn, you know, lemons into lemonade. But, you know, I wish you didn't have to have lemonade. But who knows? Like, it's like, it reminds me of that story of, you know, the blessing and the curse, you know, the the parable

• 54:11Dr. Mark Hyman?

  where the parable about this, this young man who's, is on this, lives on this farm and, and, you know, he's, he sort of goes out and into the field and he finds this wild stallion and, you know, captures it and brings it home. And, and all the, the friends of the father go, oh, what a, what a blessing. Your son has got this beautiful animal and it's now, you know, his. And he's like, well, it seems like a blessing, maybe a curse. And what seems like a curse, maybe a blessing. And then his son, you know, rides the horse, but then falls off and breaks his leg. And everybody goes, oh, how terrible. This is horrible. Your son broke his leg. And they go, no, it seems like a blessing, maybe a curse. It seems like a curse, maybe a blessing.

• 54:55Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And then, of course, there was a war that broke out and all the young men were recruited to go fight, except he couldn't go because he had a broken leg. You know, it's like, it sort of all like that. So it's like, you know, it's really, you know, one of those things we can't, we can't predict and we wouldn't wish on our worst enemy. But For me, I had the same thing. I was 36 and had severe chronic fatigue syndrome that came out of nowhere and was really brought to my knees by this illness. And for me, it made me become who I am and want to serve people and understand medicine, biology. And I'm kind of relentless about it. So it's really been the catalyst for everything that I've done in my life. So I hope this is the same for you. It seems like it obviously

• 55:38Dr. Mark Hyman?

  is. And I just stay in touch and keep this connection.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate you so much for inviting me on and allowing me to share my story. And just as I've gone through this, finding resources, I had been following you before, but you know, people like you and you, the fact that you're out there and sharing people ways for them to stack the odds in their favor is so important because I was perfectly healthy. And then out of nowhere, it feels like I got diagnosed with cancer. And there are so many ways metabolically, we can prevent it, or at least stack the odds in our favor. And there are solutions that are emerging like function health, which

• 56:26Speaker 01

  I'm excited to look into. Because I was, I was at my primary care physician, and he was doing blood tests, and then didn't catch Nat Hodgkin's lymphoma through what I assumed would have caught it. So the more resources we have, the better. And again, thank you for having me on and for doing what you do.

• 56:50Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Of course. Well, thanks, Jason. We'll see you.

• 56:54Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Thanks for listening today. If you love this podcast, please share it with your friends and family. Leave a comment on your own best practices on how you upgrade your health and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow me on all social media channels at Dr. Mark Hyman. And we'll see you next time on The Doctor's Pharmacy. I'm always getting questions about my favorite books, podcasts, gadgets, supplements, recipes, and lots more. And now you can have access to all of this information by signing up for my free Mark's Picks newsletter at drhyman.com/marks picks. I promise I'll only email you once a week on Fridays, and I'll never share your email address or send you anything else besides my recommendations. These are things that have helped me on my health journey, and I hope they'll help you, too. Again, that's drhyman.com/marks picks. Thank you again, and we'll see you next time on The Doctor's Pharmacy.

• 57:42Dr. Mark Hyman?

  This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Ultra Wellness Center and my work at Cleveland Clinic and Function Health, where I'm the Chief Medical Officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guests' opinions, and neither myself nor the podcast endorse the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for your help in your journey, seek out a qualified medical practitioner. You can come see us at the Ultra Wellness Center in Lenox, Massachusetts. Just go to ultrawellnesscenter.com. If you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner near you, you can visit ifm.org and search "find a practitioner" database.

• 58:25Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's important that you have someone in your corner who is trained, who's a licensed healthcare practitioner, and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health. Keeping this podcast free is part of my mission to bring practical ways of improving health to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to express gratitude to the sponsors that made today's podcast possible. When it comes to supplements, you only want the best for your body, the kind with the highest quality, cleanest, and most potent ingredients you can get. That's exactly what you'll find at my supplement store, where I've hand-selected each and every product to meet the most rigorous standards for safety, purity, and effectiveness. These are the only supplements I recommend to my patients, and they're also what I use myself. Whether you want to optimize longevity, or reduce your disease risk, or you're looking

• 59:09Dr. Mark Hyman?

  to improve your sleep, blood sugar, metabolism, gut health, you name it, drhyman.com has the world's best selection of top-quality, premium supplements, all backed by science and expertly vetted by me, Dr. Mark Hyman. So check out drhyman.com, because when it comes to your health, nothing less than the very best will do. That's drhyman.com, D-R-H-Y-M-A-N dot com.