20VC: Why You Have To Be A Good Long Term Actor To Succeed in VC & How Owning An Esports Team Could Be A $Bn Outcome with Clinton Foy, General Partner @ Crosscut Ventures

Clinton Foy is General Partner @ Crosscut Ventures, one of LA's leading VC funds. Prior to Crosscut, Clinton was COO, @ Square Enix, a $2 billion video game publisher, he recruited a top-tier team and built the mobile, social, and online business in North and South America. He managed licensing and strategic partnerships for SPACE INVADERS, FINAL FANTASY, and TOMB RAIDER franchises. In seven years he oversaw more than 100 product launches across a dozen platforms and grew annual revenues to more than $300 million. Before Square Enix, Clinton practiced law representing clients including Microsoft, Sony, and Yahoo. In Today’s Episode You Will Learn: 1.) How did Clinton make the transition from COO at $Bn games company to being a VC in LA? 2.) Question from Crosscut LP: Judith Elsea: What were the biggest takeaways from operating that make Clinton a better VC? What are the biggest surprises about being a VC? What are the biggest adjustments Clinton have had to make to be a VC? 3.) How important does Clinton feel network building and relationships are to being a good investor? Is this a market of predators? Can the 'nice guys' sometimes win? How does Clinton look to relationship build in a natural and organic way? 4.) On the operations side, Clinton helped Esports company, The Immortals raise a seed round. How was that experience for Clinton? What were the challenges? Is investing in an e-sports team a venture investment with potential $Bn outcome? 5.) What is the reason for the mass rise in Esports and Esports investing? How does the rise of mobile affect this? What is the future of Esports vs traditional sports? Items Mentioned In Today’s Episode: Clinton’s Fave Blog: Dean Takahashi: Venture Beat Clinton’s Most Recent Investment: The Immortals As always you can follow The Twenty Minute VC, Harry and Clinton on Twitter here! Likewise, you can follow Harry on Snapchat here for mojito madness and all things 20VC. The Twenty Minute VC is proudly sponsored by Luma, Luma is the world’s first ever Surround WiFi system that brings speed, security and control to the home network. And Unlike traditional routers, Luma comes in a pack of two or three sleek devices to place in different rooms in your home. Luma then creates a mesh network that work together to create an outrageously-fast, ultra-secure Surround WiFi network. Lastly, Luma’s app lets you easily see and control which devices, users and content are on your network. To buy your Luma, simply dead to getluma.com or amazon.com.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Harry Stebbings?

  This is the 20 Minute VC with your host, Harry Stebbings, and you can find me on Snapchat @HStebbings to see all things backstage. However, to the show's day, and my word, do we have a crack of you today, and it really was immensely entertaining to record. So, joining me in the hot seat today, we're joined by Clinton Foy. Now, Clinton is a general partner at Crosscut Ventures, one of LA's leading VC funds. And prior to joining Crosscut, Clinton was COO at Square Enix, a $2 billion video game publisher, and he recruited a top-tier team and built the mobile, social and online business in North and South America for Square Enix. And whilst there, he also managed licensing and strategic partnerships for Space Invaders, Final Fantasy and the Tomb Raider franchises. And in seven years, he oversaw more than 100 product launches

• 0:43Harry Stebbings?

  across a dozen platforms and grew annual revenues to more than $300 million. And before Square Enix, Clinton practised law, representing clients including Microsoft, Sony and Yahoo. However, before we chat to the man himself on all things investing in esports, I want to say a huge thanks to a product that's genuinely changed the way I live and work, which is really very rare for most products these days, and that is Luma. And Luma is the world's first ever surround Wi-Fi system that brings speed, security and control to your home Wi-Fi network. Finally, it's Wi-Fi that you'll love. And unlike traditional routers, Luma comes in a pack of two or three sleek devices to place in different rooms around your home. For me, one of the most impressive aspects of Luma, though, is the seamless onboarding process, as the app guides you through a simple setup in just minutes,

• 1:28Harry Stebbings?

  creating a mesh network that works together to create an outrageously fast and ultra-secure surround Wi-Fi network. Lastly, Luma's app helps you to see and control which devices, users and content are on your network. And Luma is perfect for anyone who wants to be able to stream in the family room, to conduct video conferences in the office, to allow your kids to game in the playroom, and much more, all at the same time without having to fight for bandwidth. So if you want to join me in the joy of experiencing great home Wi-Fi, finally, simply head over to GetLuma.com, buy it on Amazon.com, HomeDepot.com, BestBuy.com, or even head into Best Buy stores in the US. They really are absolutely incredible. However, enough from me, so without further ado, I'm delighted to welcome Clinton Foy, general partner at Crosscut Ventures.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  You have now arrived at your destination.

• 2:23Harry Stebbings?

  Clinton, such a pleasure to have you on the show today. Huge thanks to Judith at Weather Gauge for the intro, but really appreciate you taking the time out to join me today, Clinton.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me, Harry. I'm a big fan of your show. Big shout out to Judith at Weather Gauge as well. She's one of my favorite people and favorite LPs.

• 2:38Harry Stebbings?

  She is awesome, but I'd love to get the ball rolling today by discussing a bit about you and how you made the move from an operational role as COO at Square Enix to now a managing director at Crosscut Ventures. So how did you make the transition into VC?

• 2:53Speaker 02

  I think it's a little unconventional. I failed to the role of being a VC. And what I mean by that is I had a great role at Square Enix. Square Enix is a publicly traded company that's based in Japan. It does video games and it's a large publisher. We do, I still say we sometimes, so forgive me on that. But we did Final Fantasy, Tomb Raider, Space Invaders way back in the day. And it was an amazing company. I got to work with some of the greatest creative people on the planet with Final Fantasy, with Kingdom Hearts, Batman, and I loved it. But I always thought there was something a little bit more that I could do. And I started meeting people like Mitch Lasky at Benchmark and saw some of the work that he did going from an operational role at EA and Jamdat to Benchmark.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  It got, I think, the juices flowing in my brain and thinking, maybe I could do something like that too. And so I thought about angel investing and I started to look at potential investments in and around the video game space. And I saw Oculus Rift come up. And Oculus, as we know, had a $2 billion exit to Facebook a few years ago. Well, I tried to get in on the angel round of investment in Oculus right after their Kickstarter. I thought, well, I'm the COO of Square Enix, this $2 billion company. Surely I can get in. And I talked to the lawyers and talked to some of the people doing the deal. They said I could get in. And then a week later, I figured out that I wasn't in and I was outraged. I was like, who are these people who didn't let me in? And it turns out there were these VCs who wouldn't let me in

• 4:22Speaker 02

  and they didn't really care that I was the COO of Square Enix. Through that failure, that I really started networking more with VCs and understanding their role in the ecosystem, the startup ecosystem. And I got introduced to Crosscut into Rick Smith. Rick is, in some ways, the godfather of VC in LA. I started going to partners meetings with them and looking at, looking at deals with them. And I didn't realise that over three to six months, it was actually a very long interview process. And at the, at the end of that interview process, they gave me an offer I couldn't refuse.

• 4:55Harry Stebbings?

  And on, on the kind of theme of making that transition then, from the operations to the VC, I've got a question from one of your own investors at Crosscut, Judith at Weathergate. And Judith asked three questions, and sort of the reputation of biggest, but she says, what were the biggest takeaways from your operational role that lend to you being a better VC now? That's the first one.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  I do think that the VCs who I've met who've had operational roles and also founding roles with companies have strong empathy and not just empathy, but true compassion for the struggle of being an entrepreneur and a founder and working in large companies. It's just incredibly difficult to get to scale, to start something up from zero and go to a huge outcome or a huge multi-billion dollar company. Being able to speak with entrepreneurs about that and understanding what it's like to go through that struggle is something that I think they appreciate. And it's something that I, I look back on and I really appreciate having that experience.

• 5:51Harry Stebbings?

  And then her next biggest is, what were the biggest surprises in making the move to VC? Was it everything you thought it would be?

• 5:57Speaker 02

  It's harder and it's slower, but it's more rewarding in so many ways.

• 6:02Harry Stebbings?

  What's harder?

• 6:03Speaker 02

  One of the biggest surprises is the deal flow and just the fire hose of information that you're subjected to on a daily basis. You know, I think at Crosscut, maybe we see, we counted it and we have data that tracks it. We saw over 3,000 deals this last year. And of those 3,000, we, we met with 400 of them face to face and brought them into our office. And, you know, we only ended up investing in about 10 to 12 of them. That's what we do and that's our cadence. To get to that 10 to 12, the number of meetings, the amount of time that you spend, again, that fire hose of deal flow, I, I didn't realise that's what you had to do. That, that's rewarding as well. It's just difficult.

• 6:40Harry Stebbings?

  And then the long-term feedback loop makes it also difficult. From an operational past, I'm sure.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 6:45Harry Stebbings?

  Yeah.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  That's exactly right.

• 6:46Harry Stebbings?

  And then Judas, final biggest was what are the biggest adjustments that you've made?

• 6:51Speaker 02

  I think it's it's becoming leaner and meaner in in many ways, going from company that does $2 billion a year in revenue. You have massive staff and hierarchies. I had two executive assistants at Square Enix who worked with travel and scheduling and any need that you had. And now we we split one executive assistant between four managing directors right now at Crosscut. We take most of our meetings ourselves. We we only have one senior associate. And in a lot of ways, that that makes it much more rewarding for me, just being a lot closer to the work, being closer to the entrepreneurs and the founders. I love it.

• 7:26Harry Stebbings?

  And you mentioned kind of the entrepreneurs and the founders there. I do want to go back to your story with Lucky and Oculus. Because you mentioned that obviously it was VCs that pushed you out and it taught you the importance of a network. So having been on both sides and seen that importance, I'm intrigued to hear how important you feel network and relationship building is within VC. Is this a market of kind of bullish predators?

• 7:49Speaker 02

  I I I think that's a great question. I don't think it's a market of bullish predators because I think those bullish predators get forced out of the system. I think you can be a short term predator, but to be a good VC, I think you have to be an excellent long term actor. You you have to be somebody who's in it for the long term and looks at it as a long game. Those relationships that you build along the way and those relationships that you had in your prior experience as an operator or in finance or law, those are relationships that I think you will always have and that you have to take with you and you have to develop. If you don't have a strong network and a strong relationship with other VCs and entrepreneurs and founders, you shouldn't be a VC, I don't think. I don't think you can be an effective VC, let's say that.

• 8:35Harry Stebbings?

  One thing that's always challenging there with the network is is how to do it in a natural and organic way without me wanting to meet you for a coffee to lend to my deal flow. So how do you approach that kind of natural, organic relationship building?

• 8:49Speaker 02

  I think a a way of doing it authentically is you you meet people you care about and that you genuinely want to meet. And it organically leads to doing deals and working with people who you you want to do things with. And I think it it's hard to explain until you actually see it, but I think the people who who aren't. Genuine in this industry get marginalized pretty quickly. I think the people who aren't authentic and the people who aren't good actors, I think they get pushed out. And that's just, that's just a thesis that I have. I'm a fairly new VC. I'm only three and a half years into it. But for me, I, I see VC as being one of those last industries, one of those last categories that's inefficient still.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  And what I mean by that is it's not like the public markets where the highest bidder is always going to win. I think VCs through relationships, through various networks, through various expertise, they can win deals by being a nicer person, by being a more genuine person, by being a good friend, by being authentic, and by co-investing with other great VCs, and by developing a relationship with those founders and entrepreneurs. And I think you develop a relationship over time that allows you to get into those deals through those non-financial influence. That's what's exciting to me.

• 10:09Harry Stebbings?

  Brings up a seriously meta question for me there in terms of kind of the, almost the backwardness of it in terms of it not being a completely fair market in terms of using relationships to get into deals. But do you think that method of deal flow, relationship building, will continue to exist in the future? Essentially, what do you think the future of VC then entails? Because as you said, it is an undisrupted market. Do you think VC itself will be disrupted?

• 10:34Speaker 02

  I think it will. We're starting to see that happen with Y Combinator. There was a great article I just read profiling Sam Altman in The New Yorker, and I respect what Y Combinator has done, and I'm a big fan of what they've done over the last three to four years that I've been tracking them and been participating in YC. Just by creating a different system that's, that's essentially flipped supply and demand for VCs is doing something that's inherently disruptive, but it's also doing something that I think needs to happen. And it's not to say that relationships and networks still don't matter, and they always, I think, will matter to some extent. But I think that flip, putting, putting the power more in the hands of the people who create the value, the entrepreneurs and the founders, is, is not a bad thing.

• 11:19Harry Stebbings?

  In terms of the relationship. I'm intrigued as to hear an example of you who think has done it particularly well. Who do you hold as a poster child for brilliant relationship building in a natural and organic way?

• 11:31Speaker 02

  Wow, that's a great question. I I see so many people who've done great things. I mean, two mentors who don't know that they're mentors to me.

• 11:41Harry Stebbings?

  They do now.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Are Fred Wilson and Brad Feld.

• 11:45Harry Stebbings?

  I love that. Brad was gonna be the one who I said, because you know, he responds to every email and he responds in like fifteen minutes.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  I I love that and I'm gonna write him an email after this, now that I know that.

• 11:57Harry Stebbings?

  Write it and then time the response. But yes, Fred and Brad, please resume. Sorry for the interruption.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  And I just think that the relationship they built with each other and then with other VCs in this space is phenomenal. We had the chance to get to know Fred. He spends now a few months a year in Venice, right near our offices at Crosscut. We've had the chance to get to know him socially and just to understand what he does, both at Union Square Ventures and with his blog at ABC and just supporting the community, supporting other investors. I think it's something that's really authentic and very genuine. Brad the same way. And then I I start to see, I think, younger VCs, not to say that they're not young. I think they're still very much in their prime, but but younger VCs start to do this as well. I was just with Robin Chan and John Tao. John Tao's at Binary Capital, the managing director there.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  Robin Chan is the CEO of Operator. That just just this last weekend and they were celebrating a joint birthday party in LA. And just seeing the group of people that they had around, it was a mix of people from Sherpa Capital and Founders Fund, Crosscut. But then also just genuine, really great founders and entrepreneurs. And these are the people who they wanted to spend time with for their birthday, not doing business. But business is a byproduct of those relationships that they've built, that they've spent time at Burning Man with or they've gone to travel with to LA to celebrate their birthday. And I think people like that have done a very good organic job of building those relationships.

• 13:27Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely. I think we'll leave Burning Man to another episode. But with those relationships and kind of talking about natural and successful, you've been very successful with those relationships in raising a round from VCs and angels yourself in the creation of the pro esports team, The Immortals. So I'm intrigued at how the process was for you, raising a round for an esports team, kind of unconventional raise, to say the least, and how that was a challenging process.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  So at first with Immortals, it was something that I was torn with. I struggled with the idea of saying, well, I think this is a great opportunity to found and raise money and start up this esports team. But at the same time, I love my job as being a VC and a partner at this fund. How can I balance those two together? So I talked to my partners and said, you know, this is what I want to do. This is my co-founder Noah Winston. I think he's a genius and I think this is an opportunity and I'm passionate about this. I'm not just passionate, I'm kind of obsessed by it. Games is something that I breathe, I've lived and I sleep about and I wake up thinking about. It's something I really want to do and I'm glad my partner supported me on this and we talked to our LPs about it as well.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  And at first, it was just going to be a side hobby that was going to be something that was interesting to do. And so we raised some $2 million from some good friends in the industry. People have been on your show like Matt Mazzio and Greg Bettinelli and some other people like Gregory Milken and Peter Levin from Lionsgate. We didn't really know what it was going to be. We just knew we were forming this esports team and we were solving some problems in the industry, creating some more professionalism around the space. It turned into something much bigger than I ever thought it was going to be over this last year. What I mean by that is it actually turned into a full-fledged startup with 30 employees behind it and some large revenue and some big sponsors and a future that I think is very bright.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  And I didn't originally think it was going to be that going into it.

• 15:26Harry Stebbings?

  Can I ask a strange question? And I hope it's not derogatory. And I was always brought up on the thesis that venture investments have to be billion-dollar outcomes. Is invest, and I'm asking here, is investing in esports team a potential? Billion dollar outcome, do you think? I mean, I know Dota, the biggest kind of mothership of competitions. I think Matt Mazzio has told me before, it's a twenty five million dollar reward if you win. So is that really a billion dollar outcome, do you think, potentially?

• 15:53Speaker 02

  I think the prize pool isn't in and of itself a billion dollar outcome. But I think owning and operating and growing an esports team and a franchise and a platform could potentially be a multi hundred million dollar or even a potential billion dollar outcome over time. And what I mean by that is, maybe it helps to take a sports analogy. If you look at what happened in the NBA back in the early nineteen eighties, you saw teams like the Los Angeles Clippers get bought for eleven million dollars by Donald Sterling. It just recently sold in the last two years for two billion dollars to Steve Ballmer. And I think where we are with esports is really the early eighties, when the Lakers sold for somewhere around fifteen million dollars plus a plot of land.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  That's where we are. That's where we are. And now they're they're multi billion dollar franchises. Except for with esports, I think it's accelerating much faster than traditional sports because the infrastructure is there now. You know, you have distribution like Twitch, you have YouTube, you have Facebook Live. You also have the distribution of traditional cable broadcasts. You have ESPN and Fox and Turner all getting into esports distribution and broadcast and live streaming. That exists. Plus, you have large brands that want to get into that. Plus, I think you really are seeing an inefficiency in the market right now where you have a massive audience. It just hasn't really been monetized in a significant way. What I mean by that is, two hundred million people watch esports on a daily basis, monthly basis, much bigger.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  Thirty six million people watched the League of Legends finals this last year. That's bigger than the NBA finals. So it's possible that it could grow as big as one of those large franchises or one of those large traditional sports teams. And what we're seeing is those large traditional sports teams from the English Premier League, NBA, NFL, start to purchase.

• 17:45Speaker 02

  Esports teams and franchises as well. The Philadelphia 76ers just did. We're seeing this in Europe as well with soccer teams.

• 17:52Harry Stebbings?

  Yeah, Swansea, wasn't it?

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Franchises.

• 17:54Harry Stebbings?

  Did you get Swansea?

• 17:55Speaker 02

  That's right. One of our investors is Stephen Kaplan, founder of Oak Tree Capital, and also he's a majority owner in Swansea City, the English Premier League team.

• 18:05Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely. I'm intrigued with, in terms of that integration of esports and traditional sports, and how you perceive the future of esports versus traditional sports. Are they mutually exclusive? Is it a zero-sum game? What's your thesis towards this?

• 18:22Speaker 02

  Well, I'm going to say something a little controversial, and that's that I think there are some traditional sports that are dying out, that are sitting on a demographic time bomb. If you look at, for instance, baseball, baseball, the average fan of baseball is about 54 years old and male, and aging every year. The average demographic increases every year, and that that fan next year will be 55, and it's decreasing on a viewership basis 3% to 4% per year. But you're seeing things like esports increasing 20% to 30% per year in viewership and engagement. And you have this amazing demographic of 14 to 24 to 34 year olds who are just starting to change viewing habits in a pretty fundamental way.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  They're not watching the content, they're not watching sports on TV, they're watching it through streaming platforms like Twitch, through YouTube, Facebook Live, even. And they're watching it on mobile devices, they're watching it on their computers, they're not watching it on their TV. They're cord nevers, they're not just cord cutters, they just have never watched TV. And I think that that demographic is going to supplant some traditional sports. And I think some are going to survive. I think, for instance, basketball and soccer are two very healthy international sports that are going to do very well. But I think you're going to see that, and if you interview young kids these days who follow esports and understand their passions and what they care about, and they're heroes, and the athletes

• 19:51Speaker 02

  that they follow, I think you'll see that there's this big shift. And that's why people, and I think these investors, are interested in esports right now.

• 19:58Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely. No, you've made a very brilliant case for it. All I'm asking is that you let me know when Immortals are raising a Series A.

• 20:06Harry Stebbings?

  Please, I don't want to be pushed out like you are in Oculus. But anyway, my last question before we dive into the quickfire, and it's an interesting one in terms of platform shifts and how it affects esports in terms of how do you think VR and AR will affect the e-gaming industry? Do you think there'll be a mass transformation as it's so much more immersive and kind of realistic? Or do you think actually they wouldn't be as transformative as potentially some people think?

• 20:31Speaker 02

  I think long term, I think VR and AR will be in esports. I'm long term bullish on VR. Like I said, the reason why, one of the reasons why I got into PC was because of VR and that failed investment into Oculus. And so I'm very much a VR fanboy. I just think that the intersection of VR and esports is still maybe, say, three to four years off. And what I mean by that is I don't think the hardware and the software and the latency has really caught up with where esports is right now, just on a PC basis. There are certain things that have to happen technologically that don't exist now so that people can watch esports in VR and they won't get sick. That's a big issue. Once those things are solved, I do think that that's going to be the future of watching esports.

• 21:16Harry Stebbings?

  And I'd love to dive into a quickfire round with you now. So I say a short statement and then you give me your immediate thoughts. How does that sound?

• 21:22Speaker 02

  Wonderful.

• 21:23Harry Stebbings?

  So let's start with your favourite blog or newsletter.

• 21:26Speaker 02

  So I mentioned Fred Wilson and Brad Fowden. I read their blogs every day. And I know they've probably been mentioned a lot on this podcast. One other person who I read every day is Dean Takahashi from VentureBeat, GamesBeat. The work that he does is great.

• 21:42Harry Stebbings?

  Fantastic. No, I haven't had him on the show before in terms of suggestions. So always welcome new suggestion. What's the single biggest challenge to e-gaming then? We've heard about why we should invest in the Immortals. What's the biggest challenge to e-gaming?

• 21:55Speaker 02

  Well, we generally say esports, not e-gaming. The biggest challenge, I think, is are the publ... I just want to make sure.

• 22:05Harry Stebbings?

  You're taking the piss out of me. Okay. Okay. Right. We're gonna scrap this. This is where podcast editing is brilliant. Okay. So let's do this again. Very serious face. What do you think is the single...

• 22:19Speaker 02

  What's the single biggest challenge to esports? I think the single biggest challenge is how will the publishers act in this ecosystem? I don't think that Riot Games and Valve and Activision Blizzard were really conscious that esports was something that was growing so big over the last five to 10 years. I'm not sure if they consciously created League of Legends to become an esport. It's just something that the community took hold of and ran with. And now it's this amazing massive market and this amazing community that is in some ways controlling them as much as those publishers are controlling the community. And the professional teams are somewhere sitting in between as the content driver

• 23:04Speaker 02

  for that community. I think one of the biggest threats and one of the biggest challenges is how all of those actors work together. How do the publishers work with the teams? And how do they work with the distribution, the Foxes and the ESPNs and the Turners and the Twitches? That's still a challenge that hasn't been fully formed and there isn't something that exists like it does now for traditional sports. And then SpaceX, bright future or too much capital required from the markets? I'm a huge SpaceX fanboy. If I can somehow get a few billion dollar exits, I'm going into space exploration and funding aerospace.

• 23:46Speaker 02

  This is something that I've cared about since, I don't know, junior high, high school. I'm a voracious science fiction reader. I think that SpaceX has an incredibly bright future. I think the ambitions of Elon Musk and what he's doing and thinking big is something that's inspiring for a lot of VCs, especially VCs that are at the seed level and investing in, you know, the new ad tech platform or this mobile game or in something that seems small in comparison to making humans a multi-planetary species. That's something that's inspiring to me. Your favorite book and why? So I mentioned sci-fi before. I think Neal Stephenson is a favorite author. And so I've read all of his books from Snow Crash to most recently Seven Eves, which

• 24:31Speaker 02

  is about space exploration. And it's about creating not just a multi-planetary species, but really creating the future for space exploration. But I also love some VC books like Peter Thiel's Zero to One. I was a philosophy undergrad major. Plato's The Symposium is also a favorite book. The Lord of the Rings, I read a lot.

• 24:51Harry Stebbings?

  I've I've never read Lord of the Rings, I have to be honest. So not only not only are we a part of E, not only are we a part on E gaming, but but I haven't read Lord of the Rings. Well, we'll we'll have to make up for it. I know, I'm sorry, you probably want to end the call now.

• 25:06Harry Stebbings?

  I've never seen it either.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  We can't talk anymore.

• 25:09Harry Stebbings?

  But yeah, we've got one more question left and then you're done with me.

• 25:13Harry Stebbings?

  So just just hold out for one more question and that is, what's your most recent investment and why did you say yes?

• 25:20Speaker 02

  We had three that closed just in the last three months. We actually have a small investment, Crosscut has a small investment in Immortals, the esports franchise. Also, Arsenic TV, which is a next generation media platform. It's one of the most popular Snapchat channels, super interesting team, with a really strong woman co-founder named Amanda McAuliffe and Billy Hawkins. I loved that team. Then we also have an unannounced VR and streaming investment. Let's just say if Facebook and Twitch had a beautiful love child, it would be this company. And I I I've promised the founder that I wouldn't publicly out him and announce it yet.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  Please, please look out for that one. I'm super excited about that. We we did that with some of our favorite co-investors and first round capital, Chris Frelick and a few other friends in the VR space.

• 26:15Harry Stebbings?

  Well, well, Clinton, as you can tell, I've immensely enjoyed today. It really has been such a pleasure to have you on the show. So grateful to Judith for the introduction. But thank you so much for putting up with my e-gaming amateurism.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  I loved it. And congratulations on what you've dealt with Twenty Minute VC. I'm a big fan and I look forward to listening to all of the future podcasts. I'm I'm honored to be number one hundred ninety seven.

• 26:44Harry Stebbings?

  What a truly hilarious show that was with Clinton and a huge thanks to him for giving up his time today to come on the show. And if you love the show with Clinton and do not want to leave the world of the 20 minute VC, then simply add me on Snapchat at H Stebbings to see behind the scenes of all things from us from the studio to VC offices to startup pitches. Alternatively, I would love it if you would sign up for the newsletter on the 20minutevc.com. That way you'll never have to miss an episode or an update from us. And I'm also so proud to be sponsored today by a product that's truly changed the way I live and work and that's Luma. Now, Luma is the world's first ever surround wifi system that brings speed, security and control to your home wifi network. It really is wifi that you'll love. And unlike traditional routers, Luma comes in a pack of two or three sleek devices to place in different rooms around your home.

• 27:29Harry Stebbings?

  The app then guides you through a simple setup and in just minutes, Luma creates a mesh network that work together to create incredibly fast, ultra-secure surround wifi network. Lastly, Luma's app lets you easily see and control which devices, users and content are on your network. And Luma is perfect for anyone who wants to be able to stream in the family room, game in the playroom to conduct video conferences in the office and much more, all at the same time without having to compete for bandwidth. So if you want to join me in the joy of experiencing wifi heaven, then simply head to getluma.com, amazon.com, home depot.com, bestbuy.com, you can even get them in Best Buy stores in the US. They really are absolutely fantastic, I have to say. And as always, I so appreciate all your support.

• 28:13Harry Stebbings?

  You can always email me on [email protected] and I cannot wait to bring you Friday's episode.