#352 - NASA Apollo Astronaut Finally Faces Off Against #1 Moon Landing Skeptic | Charles Duke & Bart Sibrel

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Charles Duke is a former astronaut & US Air Force officer who became the 10th and youngest person to walk on the Moon on the Apollo 16 mission in 1972. Bart Sibrel is a filmmaker who has written, produced, and directed films arguing that the Apollo Moon landings between 1969 and 1972 were staged by NASA under the control of the CIA. This is the first ever debate between an Apollo astronaut and a moon landing skeptic. SPONSORS https://mengotomars.com - Use code DANNY to get 60% off for life & 3 free gifts. https://zippixtoothpicks.com - Use code DANNY to get 10% off your first order. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. EPISODE LINKS https://sibrel.com https://charlieduke.com FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Apollo astronaut vs. moon landing denier 08:05 - Apollo astronaut training 15:59 - Charlie Duke's role in Apollo 11 mission 25:02 - Apollo 16 moon landing 32:53 - What it's like to walk on the moon 40:15 - Bart's best evidence the moon landing was faked 45:06 - Air Force security officer's death bed confession 54:37 - Government's willingness to deceive Americans 01:03:49 - Astronaut whistleblower who was murdered by CIA 01:11:31 - Apollo moon mission technology is "lost" 01:20:25 - Missing footage from Apollo missions 01:26:24 - Evidence the "moon rocks" are fake 01:39:42 - #1 proof NASA didn't go to the moon 01:57:00 - Apollo 11 footage faked being halfway to the moon 02:11:05 - Van Allen radiation belts 02:16:38 - Charlie Duke says there were no conversations about safety traveling through the Van Allan radiation belts 02:33:05 - Apollo didn't have enough fuel to reach the moon 02:55:21 - Astronauts confess we've never been to the moon 02:58:04 - Threat of micro-meteorites on the moon 02:59:29 - Shadows on the moon - 1 picture proves moon landing hoax? 03:14:29 - Deepfake AI analysis of Apollo images 03:19:25 - The Apollo 11 post-mission conference 03:31:13 - NASA's back-up moon landing footage 03:34:51 - Biblical link to Apollo missions: Lucifer & the tower of Babble 03:39:09 - 15% of Apollo astronauts died mysteriously 03:46:19 - Why would they fake the moon landing 6 times? 03:48:31 - Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:07Danny Jones?

  All right, gentlemen. Thank you both for being here. Mr. Charlie Duke, it's a pleasure to meet you.

• 1:12Speaker 05

  Thank you very much.

• 1:13Danny Jones?

  Bart Sibrel, thanks again for traveling halfway across the world to come here and hang out with me and Charlie Duke. To start this thing off, I want to basically introduce both you guys. Charlie, you are an Apollo astronaut, one of the last four surviving Apollo astronauts, the 10th man to walk on the moon on the Apollo 16 moon landing mission. And Bart, you are the world's leaning proponent in the moon landing hoax hypothesis, I'll call it.

• 1:49Danny Jones?

  And you've made, you spent, this has been your life's work, basically, proving that, or trying to make the case that the Apollo moon landing program was an American propaganda campaign during the Cold War, and it was all filmed on a set and they never actually went to the moon. Does that sum it up pretty well?

• 2:08Speaker 05

  Pretty much. Half my life, anyway. The first half, I believe they went to the moon.

• 2:15Danny Jones?

  Obviously, like the last time you and I talked, we thought it would be a great idea to have you debate somebody on this. I don't know, have you ever done a debate on this with anybody?

• 2:24Speaker 05

  No, to me, that would be like debating if the sky is blue. It's blue, and they did fake the moon landing. I'd bet my life on it.

• 2:30Danny Jones?

  A little bit, pull your mic a little closer.

• 2:32Speaker 05

  So the people, normally, they proposed to debate me are victims of the deception, which I have no interest in beating up, you know, someone who's a victim. I said, find somebody who's a perpetrator, either one of the astronauts or NASA administrator, and you did. Here he is.

• 2:53Speaker 06

  Here I am.

• 2:54Danny Jones?

  So Charlie Duke, could you please give us a little background in your history and how you got involved in the Apollo program in the beginning?

• 3:03Speaker 06

  I was a fighter pilot in the Air Force, went to MIT, got a master's degree, and graduated '64, went to test pilot school, and graduated '65, summer '65. And I'd met some astronauts that had come to MIT. They had the contract to build the Apollo Guidance and Navigation System, and I was working on that system. And all gung ho guys, and so I decided to take their advice, go to test pilot school, and maybe have a chance at space program. Couple of months after I graduated from test pilot school in the summer of

• 3:45Speaker 06

  '65, NASA had another call for astronauts, and four of us at Edwards applied, and we all got accepted. So, and it would be May or so of 1966, we went to Houston and started working on Apollo.

• 4:04Danny Jones?

  So during this conversation, I want to do some, I want to take some time to do some back and forth on some of the cases Bart has made in his documentaries. And, but before we do that, I want to spend some time going through your personal story and your firsthand account on the Apollo missions. Does that sound good to you?

• 4:29Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 4:30Danny Jones?

  So, at what age, how old were you when you first learned about the US government gearing up to go into space and the whole space race and all this stuff?

• 4:41Speaker 06

  Uh, well, I remember the first of human beings that went into space, Yuri Gagarin in 61 and Alan Shepard followed him. And right after that, I found out now that the Russians were beating us in space. And so Kennedy put out a desire of what, how can we beat them? And Werner von Braun said, we can beat them to the moon. And I've got a copy of the letter that he sent to President Kennedy. And he said, okay, we'll go to the moon. So he committed to the Apollo program. And that was-

• 5:25Danny Jones?

  Do you remember how old you were?

• 5:28Speaker 06

  Well, I was six, it was in 60, 61 or two. So I was born in 35, so I was 30, less than 30 years old.

• 5:37Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 5:37Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 5:40Danny Jones?

  And I remember seeing specifically, there were interviews with, I think this might've been a von Braun interview from your documentary, where they were asking von Braun about the space race with Russia. And he was explaining it in an analogy to where he said, Russia's already in a full sprint. We haven't even started walking yet. Like, we have to gear up. We have a long time to gear up and to speed up before we're even running at the same pace they are, before, we have to do all that, before we can even think about closing the gap between us and Russia.

• 6:15Speaker 06

  Well, that might be true. I don't remember that level of detail, but I do have a copy of the letter that he sent to President Kennedy, I believe it was, that said, the only way we can beat them is beat them to the moon. And so they committed to the moon. And by the end of the decade, which I thought was crazy. I mean, 15 minutes in space and we're gonna land on the moon in the next eight, eight and a half years? Turns out, I was sitting in mission control in July of 1969, eight years and two months later, and I'm talking to Neil Armstrong on the moon.

• 6:56Danny Jones?

  Let's go to the point where you first decided, like, like, how did the process work for you to be chosen to be selected for this program?

• 7:04Speaker 06

  I had grad, as I said, I had graduated from the test pilot school at Edwards Air Force Base in the summer of 65. And in September of that year, I saw an ad in the paper that's NASA's looking for more astronauts, please apply. So I had a, I was in the Air Force, I had to go through the official channels. So I, they told me what to do and I submitted my application along with Stu Russo and Alan Ward, Al Warden, Hank Hartsfield, we were all in the same test pilot school class. And Joe Engel was out there, he, he, he applied and there was a lot of people applied.

• 7:45Speaker 06

  And they were looking for test pilots and my age and height and everything like that.

• 7:52Danny Jones?

  When you say test pilot, you mean test pilot for the, the space, the space program?

• 7:56Speaker 06

  No, test pilot for the Air Force.

• 7:59Danny Jones?

  The Air Force?

• 8:00Speaker 06

  Yeah. We were all at Edwards Air Force Base, the ones I'm speaking about. And we had others selected that came from the naval test pilot school, which was in Pawtucket, Maryland.

• 8:11Danny Jones?

  And then how did you, and then how did that evolve into the idea of going to the moon, working on the moon missions?

• 8:18Speaker 06

  Oh, I'm not sure the moon, the moon missions were, had been determined, that's what we were working on. And if we applied, we would have a chance to work on the Apollo program.

• 8:33Danny Jones?

  Was there a moment for you where you thought like, I wanna, I wanna be one of the guys to go to the moon? Or I wanna, I wanna be a part of that program to put man on the moon?

• 8:42Speaker 06

  Uh, that was the call by NASA is to you, if you got selected as astronaut, you'd be a part of the Apollo program. So you'd, and no guarantee you're gonna fly to the, to the moon, no guarantee that it was even gonna be completed. But I wanted to be an astronaut. It was the best job you could have as a test pilot.

• 9:04Danny Jones?

  And then what was that training like to become an astronaut? And how long did it take?

• 9:11Speaker 06

  Well, it depends on what you call training. We, our group, it was nineteen of us. We reported to Houston in first, like, the first of May nineteen sixty-six. And we started learning NASA E's, you know, how, how does NASA work? And what are, who's got responsibility, this, that, and the other. And they decided also, if, if we're going to go to the moon, we ought to know what kind of rocks to pick up. And so we started a big, extensive training in geology. And we not only had classroom work, but we also had field trips once a month, generally. And that was two or three days, somewhere in the US, somewhere, and sometimes in Hawaii,

• 9:56Speaker 06

  sometimes in Canada, but mostly in the US. We did a geology trip, got into the field, and learned how to pick up the right kind of rocks.

• 10:07Danny Jones?

  And what were you, what was going through your mind when, I mean, you're a young guy and you're, this is sixty-six, three years before Apollo eleven. You're trained to become an astronaut, learning about geology, like, what, what was going through your mind at that point? Like, what was your, like, were you optimistic that this was going to happen? Were you, were you skeptical? Were you fearful?

• 10:35Speaker 06

  I, I was optimistic that Apollo was going to happen. I wasn't so optimistic that I'd get a chance to go. We were the junior guys. And so it, it turned out that some of the senior guys left. John Glenn, Wallace Yarrah, after Apollo seven, retired. And so a lot of the older guys started retiring. So we sort of bubbled up into the mix. And Deke Slaton, who was the, and Alan Shepard, who were the two top astronauts, they started picking people to train. And, and so we, they were trying to balance the crew and give us younger guys some experience.

• 11:20Speaker 06

  So most of the crews that were selected had a senior guy that had been, that had flown in space. He was the commander. And then a lot of the crews had two rookies that came from our group, mostly.

• 11:37Danny Jones?

  And how did you come to meet Von Braun?

• 11:40Speaker 06

  One of my first jobs as an astronaut was to monitor the development of the Saturn V. Stu Russa and myself. And so the best way to do that was to go up and meet Ron Braun and sit in on his staff meetings to see how the Saturn V was progressing and was this thing going to really fly? And so every month, we'd go up and sit in on his staff meeting. And he became a, I wouldn't say a friend, but he recognized us every time we walked in. He says, "Welcome, Charlie. Welcome, Stu." And we'd sit in and listen to his

• 12:21Speaker 06

  briefings on his staff meeting. And then we'd go back and report to the astronaut office on Monday morning. Every Monday morning, we'd have a couple hour meeting and what was going on in the program. And Stu and I'd give a briefing every time we got back.

• 12:39Danny Jones?

  So you would explain to the other astronauts what the progress was on the Saturn V rocket?

• 12:44Speaker 06

  That's correct.

• 12:45Danny Jones?

  Depending on like what? Did you have any like personal conversations with Ron Braun about this?

• 12:49Speaker 06

  Mostly just, he recognized us and he accepted us. And I can't say he became a real good friend, but he certainly knew who we were. And I respected him highly. And they were doing a good job. Turned out the Saturn V never had a failure, not one.

• 13:11Danny Jones?

  That's pretty astonishing.

• 13:13Speaker 06

  And all of the flights of Apollo, they lost one engine. And I think it was on Apollo 13. But one engine goes out, you can still make it into orbit.

• 13:24Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 13:26Speaker 06

  In fact, it was such a good machine. Stu Russa and I went to Ames Research Center and they wrote a program, can astronauts literally fly the Saturn V into space manually? And we proved we could. Not very efficiently, but we could get it into orbit.

• 13:46Speaker 06

  But they decided not to use that program and so it never was implemented. But we spent a month or so out at Ames proving that you could fly the Saturn V in orbit.

• 14:02Danny Jones?

  What made the Saturn V so superior even to rockets that we have today?

• 14:08Danny Jones?

  I mean, obviously, it wasn't reusable.

• 14:10Speaker 06

  I think it was just good technology and a simple, you know, there wasn't anything complicated about the Saturn V. The engines were huge and they were test fired and it was a nitrogen and no, not nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen. I don't remember what the fuel was, but anyway, they were very reliable and engines are huge. 1.5 million pounds thrust each on the first stage. And so that was a seven and a half million pounds of thrust lifting six and a half million pounds. And you were up on the top and the only thing I remember of a liftoff

• 14:55Speaker 06

  was the vibration. You didn't have any noise from the engines. That was all going sideways, but the thing shook. It was like being on a 360 long limber fishing pole and you're up at the top and somebody shaking it down here, which was the engines and was vibrating from side to side. Not a pogo, but a vibrate from side to side.

• 15:18Danny Jones?

  Like swaying back and forth.

• 15:19Speaker 06

  Yeah. Very high, high, high frequency though. And amplitude was maybe that four.

• 15:29Danny Jones?

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• 16:11Danny Jones?

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• 16:56Danny Jones?

  It's linked down below. Now, back to the show. And so during Apollo 11, the first on Neil Armstrong's mission to the moon, you were, what was your role in that?

• 17:10Speaker 06

  I was at Capcom. I'd done the same thing on Apollo 10 and where they took the lunar module to the moon but weren't going to land. And so that had gone well and Neil asked me to, why don't you be Capcom for us? I mean, you got the experience.

• 17:28Danny Jones?

  Oh, he asked you?

• 17:29Speaker 06

  Yeah. And because I wasn't on the, on the crew of any way involved, but he said, would you do that? And I said, sure, it'd be a great honor. And so we practiced for two months and simulations, the crews in the simulator, we're in mission control, and we practiced four or five hours a day generally and for the landing part.

• 17:54Danny Jones?

  So what, so what specifically do you do as the TopCom guy?

• 17:58Speaker 06

  You, you're the voice of mission control. You don't, you're the only person that can actually talk to the crew. The crews.

• 18:10Speaker 06

  Voice loop is heard in mission control in everybody's headsets. But the only person that can respond is Capcom. And was an astronaut. And you, you really told them what was, you responded to their calls. And you, and you responded to what the mission control team were telling you to tell them. To keep them in the loop. Like we started down and we had communication problems. And if I recall, the, the, it was a 30 second rule. If you lost communications for 30 seconds, it was on the board.

• 18:55Speaker 06

  So we reoriented, changed attitude, changed antennas. And, and then the computer was overloading. And that really got everybody's attention. And so, but Steve Bales and Jack Gorman in the back room said, we're go fly. They knew what the computer was doing. And it was not, it was overloading because it had a, it had 75 milliseconds of compute. And then it flipped back to the, to the job number one. And it was always flying the spacecraft, but it was dropping off these insignificant jobs. And so we were, we were go.

• 19:39Speaker 06

  And then we had a trajectory problem and Neil couldn't, we had him targeted into the wrong place. We didn't really understand lunar gravity then. And with the mascons and all of that stuff. So we, he had to level off and fly horizontally, I don't know, four or five miles. And that used up all the reserve fuel. And so now we're minimum fuel. And we called, they, they have two separate fuel reserves.

• 20:11Danny Jones?

  One for the descent and one for the ascent when they leave the moon.

• 20:15Speaker 06

  The ascent engine is never you, was never used on ascent, I mean descent.

• 20:20Danny Jones?

  Okay. You, you never would do that?

• 20:23Speaker 06

  Well, you'd have to stage the vehicle to get the ascent engine light. It wouldn't light unless you staged and separated. So anyway, we called.

• 20:37Speaker 06

  Sixty seconds, he had sixty seconds to land. And then I, I remember thirty seconds. I called thirty seconds and he was, uh, it was close, but not on the ground. And we were, according to my watch, we were fifteen seconds or so before calling an abort when Buzz Aldrin said, "Contact, engine stop." They're on the moon.

• 21:05Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 21:06Speaker 06

  Tension was through the roof at Mission Control.

• 21:10Danny Jones?

  What, what was that like for you when they landed on the moon and you were sitting in that?

• 21:13Speaker 06

  It was a great sigh of relief. Everybody, you know, it was, uh, it was tense, you can imagine. And, uh, are we gonna make it? Are we gonna make it? Now, I'm convinced now that, uh, had I called abort, time up, you know, and called an abort, which was based on a fuel reserve in a decent engine, Neil would have said, "Say again, Houston. He's not gonna abort. He's gonna land at, uh, at twenty feet off the moon and he's minimum fuel." And we hit that point, he's not gonna abort. He had the final say, so he's gonna land.

• 21:54Danny Jones?

  Now, uh, were you, were you there on the communication with them the moment they landed?

• 21:59Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 22:00Danny Jones?

  And how long were you there? Were you there the whole time, even when they were coming back?

• 22:04Speaker 06

  No.

• 22:05Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 22:05Speaker 06

  Uh, that was another, uh, we had, I think, four, four flight teams, uh, working Apollo 11. And, uh, I was on Gene Krantz's team and we had responsibility for landing. And, uh, and then we stayed around for another hour or so while they saved the spacecraft and got everything.

• 22:30Danny Jones?

  Um, and how long was it until once he got back to Earth? Do you remember your first conversation with him? How long, how long was it before you talked to him?

• 22:42Speaker 06

  Well, they had to go into quarantine and uh because of moon bugs. You know, we weren't sure about whether we're going to bring back something that's going to wipe out the whole civil uh.

• 22:54Danny Jones?

  Civilization.

• 22:54Speaker 06

  Civilization. So they went into quarantine and uh we could talk to him through the, the window and uh, but uh there were no moon bugs and uh everything was fine. And so they were, I think, three weeks or something like that. And then it got out and we started having debriefings, but we were debriefing during the time they were in quarantine.

• 23:23Danny Jones?

  And what was that like? Well, what was his demeanor? What was his attitude? What was he saying? Anything ring a bell to you like? Or did, does anything uh really like stick out for you as far as like kind of conversations you had with him afterwards?

• 23:36Speaker 06

  Neil Armstrong was Mr. Cool Stone. You know, he wasn't, he was unflappable. And uh it uh, you know, we landed and uh he was following the rules, but uh we had uh, we hit minimum fuel on the descent because he had, we had him targeted into the wrong way and he had to fly horizontally about four or five miles and then sit down uh and find a place to land. And uh I remember calling uh Apollo 11 uh 30 seconds. I mean, you see, he had 30 seconds to land on the moon and it, or the next call was

• 24:20Speaker 06

  going to be uh abort.

• 24:22Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Yep, we just talked about that.

• 24:25Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 24:25Danny Jones?

  Um, so, okay, let's fast forward to your, to your mission, Apollo 16. Can you describe like what was it like being, sitting in the tip of that rocket before it launched off to the moon?

• 24:40Speaker 06

  Uh, keep counting, keep counting. I'm ready to go.

• 24:44Danny Jones?

  You were ready to go.

• 24:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, two years and we trained.

• 24:48Danny Jones?

  Was there any, was there no fear? Like you had children and a wife back home and?

• 24:53Speaker 06

  No fear.

• 24:54Danny Jones?

  No fear at all?

• 24:56Speaker 06

  Yes, we had, because we had so many, we had a escape rocket. We had practiced aborts and not, if the thing blew up on the pad, you were still able to get off with the Apollo Launch Vehicle Escape System.

• 25:16Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 25:17Speaker 06

  And so we had practiced all of that stuff and we were just ready to go. And so we were laying there, ready, keep counting, keep counting, keep counting.

• 25:28Danny Jones?

  And can you walk me through what that was like for you? Like that for that liftoff and then getting into orbit and then, and then doing the, I want to say, I've been waiting to say this word for, for weeks. The trans lunar injection. Sounds so cool.

• 25:45Danny Jones?

  Bart's over there, Bart's over there steaming.

• 25:48Speaker 05

  Well, I'm just waiting for my turn.

• 25:52Danny Jones?

  You'll get it, Bart.

• 25:53Speaker 05

  I'm entertained.

• 25:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you'll get it, Bart. This is, I think it's really important to get this.

• 25:59Speaker 06

  So we were laying there and we're listening to the count. And when the engine started, they were moving down there to maintain a trajectory. And that vibration transferred it up and you 360 feet above it and it shook from side to side. But we're on our way. You feel the G's liftoff and Mission Control said, you go. And we were go and, and it was really exciting to, to feel the acceleration of this big vehicle and the vibration from side to side. And we didn't have any pogo, but it was a vibration from side to side.

• 26:43Speaker 06

  So we're on our way and just riding it out. And it was really.

• 26:50Speaker 06

  I mean, one of the best rides I've ever had.

• 26:54Danny Jones?

  How long did it take to get to the moon?

• 26:57Speaker 06

  Get to the, get into orbit was 12 minutes or so, I think. And that was, you ended up on the third stage, which was the rocket that pushed you out of Earth orbit and onto the trajectory to the moon. And that happened, I don't know, about a rev and a half later. We were over Australia and, and we ignited the third stage automatically and pushed us out of orbit into a cir- cis lunar orbit that took us to the moon. And then we got there, we had to slow down to get into orbit.

• 27:40Speaker 06

  We used the service module engine for that.

• 27:44Danny Jones?

  And what was your, did you have a specific task on that trip to the moon? Were you, were you in charge of monitoring anything in particular or communication or?

• 27:53Speaker 06

  Well, I was the lunar module pilot, which was on the right side. And as you look at, at the instrument panel, I was on the right side. Mattingley was in the center seat and John, and John Young was the commander on the left seat. So if we had emergencies, we all had things to do. We practiced, you know, aborts and we practiced radio out and every kind of thing. Fuel cell failures, we just practiced and practiced and practiced. So we were ready to go and, and towards that, our flight was sort of the, one of the most nominal

• 28:36Speaker 06

  flights that we had to get into orbit on the Saturn V. It was a very reliable rocket.

• 28:43Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Explain what it was like actually landing on the moon.

• 28:49Speaker 06

  Well, it was a very dynamic situation. We pitched over at 7,000 feet and that's the first time you saw the lunar surface where you were going to land. And I 7,000 feet. Yeah, and I looked out and looked to the right to see if I could see the North Ray crater up there. And we were right on target. And John began to maneuver the spacecraft manually

• 29:19Speaker 06

  He picked out a landing spot. He had on his windshield, he had ladders. And if you landed, lined it up, like at 35, that meant, and the computer would tell you 35, that's where you're going to land. If you don't do anything. And so, we, he redesignated a couple of times and we were going into some craters and he maneuvered and it, and I was just talking him down. I was not looking out the window much, because it was so busy. You were reading instruments or something?

• 29:58Speaker 06

  We were, we had a profile that said at 500 feet, down at 22, and no lateral velocity or whatever. And so, I was reading that profile out to him. Oh, I see. And, and he was flying it manually. By this time, he's flying it manually. And he's controlling the whole thing. Descent, right, left, forward, back. And, and we had a profile and we were right on the profile. So, when we hit the ground, there was a probe underneath the landing gear, said contact. And when that light came on, you shut the

• 30:41Speaker 06

  engine down. And, and we were coming down like 2, 3 feet per second, I think, if I remember right. And when the light came on, I said, contact. And he shut it down and we dropped in on the moon. Almost dead level. So, we were excited, to say the least. I could imagine. We were late landing. We had a problem in the In the command module before we started down and and it almost caused an abort of the whole mission, but mission control came to the rescue and figured it out. And so we, we continued our mission, but we were late landing.

• 31:25Danny Jones?

  I use nicotine for focus and I usually keep one of those little cans around just to help me stay focused and energized during the day. They're fine, but they dry out your mouth. They're probably not that great for your gums and they taste very chemically. And that's why I've started to use Zipx toothpicks lately. These little things are a game changer. This is the cleanest, most low key way for me to get my nicotine without vape, without smoke, and without a nicotine pouch shoved in my gums. It's just a toothpick, but with a kick. And you can use them literally anywhere, flights, restaurants, sporting events, basically all the places where someone would yell at you or judge you for vaping, smoking, or throwing an upper decky in. I think Zipx actually tastes better too. They've got six long lasting flavors, all made right here in the USA,

• 32:08Danny Jones?

  and 100% natural nicotine, not that synthetic stuff. I've been keeping a few of these in my backpack lately and I've noticed I've been using them a lot more than the pouches because they taste better and I think they're more convenient. And if nicotine isn't your thing, they make caffeine and B12 toothpicks for a smooth energy boost. Ditch the pouches, cigarettes and vapes and try Zipx toothpicks. Only sold online at zippixtoothpicks.com. And you can get 10% off your first order by using the code DANIE at checkout. Must be 21 or older to order. Warning: Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Go to zippixtoothpicks.com and use the code D A N N Y at checkout for 10% off your first order. Zip more and smoke less with Zipx toothpicks. So what was your mission?

• 32:53Danny Jones?

  What was the, what was the objective of Apollo 16?

• 32:55Speaker 06

  To explore the lunar highlands, the mountains of the moon. Uh, the geology was supposed to be different than the Amari where Neil landed. And it was, we had different rocks, different kind of compositions. And, uh, we had a car, uh, that we unloaded and drove it. First day we drove west for a mile and a half and sampled Plum Crater. And then the next day we drove north, south up Stone Mountain.

• 33:30Speaker 06

  And and that was about a eight or nine mile round trip. And then the last day we had we headed north.

• 33:42Speaker 06

  Yeah, north to to what was called.

• 33:48Speaker 06

  Oh, I can't remember the name of the crater now. It was a big crater, North Ray Crater. North Ray Crater.

• 33:53Danny Jones?

  What the do you remember the moment you took your first step onto the moon?

• 33:58Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 33:59Danny Jones?

  What what was what did that feel like?

• 34:01Speaker 06

  I'm on the moon. I'm on the moon. It's just exciting.

• 34:04Danny Jones?

  Just just elated with excitement.

• 34:07Speaker 06

  Yeah. We we were delayed getting out because we were late landing due to the problem we had in the other spacecraft.

• 34:14Danny Jones?

  How old were you again when you first landed on the when you when you walked on the moon?

• 34:18Speaker 06

  Thirty six.

• 34:18Danny Jones?

  You were thirty six years old.

• 34:20Speaker 06

  One of the youngest guys.

• 34:24Danny Jones?

  I can't I would imagine it would be overwhelming the amount of emotions would be.

• 34:29Speaker 06

  It was pretty exciting and we were, you know, just bounding with enthusiasm and we were late landing, so we did we were supposed to the original plan called us to land and suit up and go outside. But Mission Control canceled that and said, you guys are going to be up too late. You might make a mistake or too too long, not wake up too too late, but you're going to be awake for twenty something hours if we do the C P.

• 34:57Danny Jones?

  So they made you guys go to sleep?

• 34:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, took off our suits and went to sleep.

• 35:03Danny Jones?

  What were you is there anything that sort of like blew blew your previously held conceptions of the moon out of the water when you got there like when you've actually walked out and stepped on the moon?

• 35:19Danny Jones?

  Was it exactly what you expected it to be or what about that experience really stood out to you?

• 35:28Speaker 06

  Well, we were the fifth landing, so we had we'd. Heard debrief four, four previous crews tell us what was it like.

• 35:35Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 35:36Speaker 06

  So we, we had a lot of familiarity with it and we knew, we, we had a flight plan. We knew what we were going to do and so we just got to work and it was really exciting being there. And I'm on the moon, I'm on the moon, you know, and you, you were thinking those things privately. You're not broadcasting it out, but uh, we uh.

• 35:57Danny Jones?

  Like, what did it feel like to walk on, to, to walk on the moon? Do you remember like what?

• 36:01Speaker 06

  We had.

• 36:01Danny Jones?

  I'm talking about like, like, what did the ground feel like? What?

• 36:05Speaker 06

  You don't have any feel, you got a moon boot on and you got a suit boot on.

• 36:09Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 36:10Speaker 06

  So you, you, you just feel the pressure and it uh.

• 36:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 36:15Speaker 06

  It was uh.

• 36:18Speaker 06

  Easy to lose your balance, if you will, at one six gravity and uh.

• 36:24Danny Jones?

  Did you immediately see the earth?

• 36:26Speaker 06

  No, it was right overhead. So when you look up in Apollo, you're looking at the top of your helmet. So we never saw the earth.

• 36:34Danny Jones?

  You got to be like.

• 36:35Speaker 06

  Well, yeah, you could hold on to the spacecraft and lean back and there it was. It's a, a half earth up, up in the sky and you could, we had a TV. So we had an antenna that we, like a periscope and we could point that at the earth. And when we got it pointed to earth, we flipped on the TV and we had TV.

• 36:57Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 36:58Speaker 06

  That we sat down.

• 37:00Danny Jones?

  And uh. How big, like you were standing on the edge of a crater. How big was that crater?

• 37:07Speaker 06

  The biggest one we visited was North Ray Crater was about uh, I'm, I can, it's been a long time ago. So I'm, I'll guess it may be three hundred and, three hundred feet wide and maybe a couple hundred feet deep.

• 37:24Speaker 06

  And that was our last EVA. That was our third EVA. The Lunar Rover that we had was, we were the, let's see, second, yeah, second with the Lunar Rover. And it revolutionized lunar exploration because you, prior to that, everybody was walking. You know, it was pretty tough walking up there and collecting rocks. So riding a rover was really revolutionary.

• 37:53Danny Jones?

  How long were you guys outside?

• 37:56Speaker 06

  The longest was, if I remember right, it was over eight hours.

• 38:00Danny Jones?

  You were walking around on your feet for eight hours?

• 38:02Speaker 06

  Well, no, we were riding a car.

• 38:04Danny Jones?

  Sitting in the car, okay.

• 38:05Speaker 06

  And then ride the place and we'd jump out and we'd had a, we had a flight plan. Do this, do this, find this rock, do that. And so we were collecting samples, we were drilling holes, we were digging, shoveling trenches and everything like that.

• 38:20Danny Jones?

  Was there anything that you did that was a part of your, a part of the job that you had to do that surprised you? Like in any of your digs or any of your findings, did you see anything that was like shocking or like unexpected?

• 38:32Speaker 06

  I don't think in the, in the physical work was anything different, but the experience of being on the moon and the one-sixth gravity, it had, you had to learn how to walk. And get your center of gravity over your feet.

• 38:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 38:53Speaker 06

  And you couldn't straighten up. I tried to straighten up, jumping one time and straightened up and I fell over backwards, which was really scary. But that was the end of our stay.

• 39:05Danny Jones?

  And you, do you remember if you could see stars?

• 39:07Speaker 06

  You can't.

• 39:08Danny Jones?

  You can't see any stars?

• 39:09Speaker 06

  Not in the daylight, you can't.

• 39:11Danny Jones?

  And you guys were in the daylight the entire mission, right?

• 39:14Speaker 06

  No, only on the moon. We were.

• 39:16Danny Jones?

  That's what I mean, when you asked, like the entire entirety of your time spent on the moon was in the daylight? Because days there are like 14 days long here on Earth, right?

• 39:24Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 39:26Danny Jones?

  So what happened when you guys had to come home? What was that like?

• 39:32Speaker 06

  Well, we were, we were.

• 39:38Speaker 06

  Approaching a time going to kiss and we tried to talk in mission control and they're letting us stay another two hours but or whatever it was and they said get inside guys it's time to come home so we got inside and and we got ready to lift off but the first thing we had to do was pitch out all the backpacks so we pressurized open the depressurize open the door threw out the backpacks two bags of trash and

• 40:08Danny Jones?

  Oh no you littered on the moon?

• 40:09Speaker 06

  Yeah we big litter yeah

• 40:12Danny Jones?

  Unbelievable

• 40:13Speaker 06

  Sorry about that but we were

• 40:16Danny Jones?

  How dare you?

• 40:16Speaker 06

  Yeah and then then we lifted off and rendezvous

• 40:21Danny Jones?

  And um and when you got back to earth you had to go through the same process that Neil went through the um

• 40:29Speaker 06

  No we did not have quarantine

• 40:31Danny Jones?

  You didn't you did not have quarantine?

• 40:32Speaker 06

  No not on the return

• 40:34Danny Jones?

  What did you have to go through on the return? Was there any specific protocol you had to follow and?

• 40:40Speaker 06

  Well I don't remember exactly but we we had physicals and you know blood and stuff blood work and stuff like that

• 40:50Danny Jones?

  Were there any like were there any um psychological evaluations or anything like that or like talking to somebody that about your experience?

• 40:57Speaker 06

  Oh we had debriefings but everybody geologist other astronauts mission control we talked to everybody when we got back management

• 41:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah um okay Bart so your basic story was when you were a kid you're obsessed with the moon missions you you you were said you were asleep when they first landed on the moon but you were a huge fan of NASA and a big believer in the moon landing and at one point something happened and you did a 180

• 41:36Danny Jones?

  Out of, out of everything, and I know you cover a lot of ground with your theories. And in your documentaries, you, you do a very thorough job laying out every single point. But like to you, what is the, what are like the top two or three reasons that you believe that the moon landing was a hoax?

• 42:01Speaker 05

  Well, we can get into that and I have evidence to show on all of those. The first, we have an eyewitness who saw them film Apollo 11 at Cannon Air Force Base. He confessed to it as he was dying. And he also confessed to a homicide.

• 42:18Danny Jones?

  This is why the headphones help because you, you get, sometimes you're not talking into the microphone.

• 42:22Speaker 05

  Well.

• 42:23Danny Jones?

  Just make sure you keep it like this far away from your mouth.

• 42:25Speaker 05

  This far, okay.

• 42:27Danny Jones?

  Get it nice and close.

• 42:29Speaker 05

  So we have an eyewitness and who was fearing the judgment of God as he was dying. And he confessed to a homicide. And if you want, you can bring up that image. It's image D1. This gentleman's name is Cyrus Eugene Akers. He was the chief of security at Cannon Air Force Base, which is the special operations or intelligence headquarters for the air force. And as he was dying, in the presence of his son, there's a picture of him. General, if you want to look at it.

• 43:06Danny Jones?

  Okay. This is Cyrus Eugene Akers.

• 43:09Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 43:09Danny Jones?

  How did you discover this guy?

• 43:11Speaker 05

  His son contacted me.

• 43:13Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 43:13Speaker 05

  Based after his father confessed. And the first thing he confessed to was a homicide, that he felt like he needed to confess that he had murdered somebody in the past. And his son found out that he murdered a fellow employee at Cannon Air Force Base. And the military police came in and investigated the homicide. And when they asked him, why did you kill him?

• 43:46Speaker 05

  He said it was to cover up the moon landing fraud, which they both had eyewitnessed. And he felt that his friend who thought it was morally wrong was gonna go public with it. And so he murdered him to keep it a secret. If you go to D2, we can watch a three-minute video of the son and see his testimony about it.

• 44:11Danny Jones?

  Okay, so this is a deathbed confession that the son told you about?

• 44:18Speaker 05

  Correct.

• 44:18Danny Jones?

  And there was a police investigation into it?

• 44:20Speaker 05

  There was a military police investigation.

• 44:21Danny Jones?

  A military police investigation. Okay, is there any hard evidence of this investigation? And what was the outcome of it?

• 44:27Speaker 05

  Well, after his father's confession, which was videotaped.

• 44:31Danny Jones?

  Oh, it was on video?

• 44:33Speaker 05

  That's correct. When they went out one day, their house burned down. They believe it was said intentionally by somebody who knew about the confession. After all, they had told the Air Force, military police, that the moon landing was fake. They reported that to their superiors. They found out there was a videotape of the confession, and so they burned their house down. And in fact, the-

• 44:57Danny Jones?

  Who burned their house down?

• 44:59Speaker 05

  Whoever. It was arson. I presume the CIA or whoever.

• 45:03Danny Jones?

  And how many, how long after this confession was the house burned down?

• 45:07Speaker 05

  Within, I think, a couple of weeks because they had video of the confession and they had some documentation. In fact, the gentleman's Air Force file has been completely deleted. We used the Freedom of Information Act request. They said there's no Cyrus Eugene Akers. There's, never was in the Air Force. And yet, I went to the military graveyard, which isn't too far from here, about 50 miles from here. And there he is, his tombstone, United States Air Force.

• 45:40Danny Jones?

  From here?

• 45:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's about 50 miles from here.

• 45:43Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 45:43Speaker 05

  And he's in the military cemetery. And it says, United States Air Force, Cyrus Eugene Akers, and that he served in Vietnam and Korea. And his son lived right across from the base. He said he was chief of security there. And so if you play video D2, we can have a video of the son and put it in his own words.

• 46:06Speaker 07

  President Johnson in 1968. Okay?

• 46:10Speaker 07

  In Cannon Air Force Base in 1968, he said by that time, by the time he got there, that there was already two large hangars that were connected. There was hundreds of dump trucks came in and dumped sand and uh, stone. And uh, cement powder was powdered over the top of all that to make it look like a lunar landscape. They had men that fashioned it into a lunar landscape, he said. Okay, I've never known my dad to lie, so this all took me by surprise, you know. What's that all about?

• 46:52Speaker 07

  So anyway, um, he said that in front of the uh, the airplane hangars uh, was a pole framing with a large canvas tents um, that was concealing the inside of the staging area. Inside the staging area, uh, on flatbed trucks was unparaded um, the lunar lander that was assembled, reassembled back inside the hangars. Um, all of the walls were painted flat black and the ceilings as well. He was sworn to secrecy by the NSA and uh, they would put him in prison for breaking that oath.

• 47:34Speaker 07

  When dad saw the, the moon landing on TV, he cried. He said he knew um, that what he had witnessed on TV was exactly what they recorded in that hangar. Um, there was no reason for them to go flying around and everything. They had detailed, high-definition photos of the landing area. There was no reason for them to go flying around to a different landing area that almost exhausted their fuel, except for drama, because everything had gone so smoothly.

• 48:13Speaker 07

  Nothing, you know, so it had to be something.

• 48:18Speaker 07

  Anyway, um. Dad was one of three guards that guarded the, uh, the inside of the front entrance. There was a list of fifteen people who could enter. No one else was allowed by order of President Johnson. And here is that list, and I gave it to Bart Sibrel as well. Uh, and he checked out a lot of these names and he says he can verify a lot of these people and what they do. Um, and I come across the couple myself. Anyway, President Johnson, Neil Armstrong, Edwin Alden, Werner von Braun, Robert Emmaneger,

• 48:59Speaker 07

  Gene Krantz, James Webb, Joe Kerwin, Dr. Thomas Payne, Glenn Looney, Dr. Christopher Kraft, Dr. James Van Allen, General Trudeau, Trudeau, Lieutenant Colonel, uh, Donald Simon, and Grant Norrie.

• 49:26Speaker 07

  My dad, he raised me by the book. I know he didn't lie to me. And as I started seeing more and more of what he was telling me was true, I realized my dad wasn't lying.

• 49:40Danny Jones?

  All right, so this is the, this, you would say this is the top piece of evidence that you?

• 49:44Speaker 07

  No, it's, it's the most compelling to people because we have a, a testimony of it. Now, if I may ask-

• 49:50Danny Jones?

  It is a testimony, but it, it's not actual hardcore evidence.

• 49:54Speaker 07

  I understand, we're, we've got, we've got three and a half hours, he's got forty minutes ahead of, head start on me.

• 49:59Danny Jones?

  Yes, he does.

• 50:00Speaker 07

  And so I can present my evidence. And I have a couple of questions. Um, if I climbed Mount Everest and was known for climbing Mount Everest and got an award or a medal and everyone, I was hired at companies as their CEO for having climbed Mount Everest, and somebody came along and started saying, "You didn't do it. You, it was filmed in a TV studio."

• 50:29Speaker 05

  I certainly wouldn't fly and make an airport change and stay overnight in a hotel and go to podcast to podcast to defend that I had climbed Mount Everest. I wouldn't waste my time. So why are you here?

• 50:45Speaker 06

  Me?

• 50:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 50:48Speaker 05

  If you walked on the moon, and it's so obvious that you walked on the moon, I, I wouldn't fly anywhere to debate somebody whether or not I walked on Mount Everest if I did. So why are you here?

• 51:01Speaker 06

  I'm here to tell my story. He asked me to come and share my story that I walk on the moon. And I did walk on the moon. The evidence is overwhelming that we landed on the moon. And, uh, and so I've told my story for the last 50 something years, almost, or whatever it is. We landed in 72. So, uh, I, I have been asked to share my experience, uh, by reputable people. And so I do that. And I am not lying. I landed on the moon and the evidence is overwhelming.

• 51:38Speaker 05

  Well, actually, the opposite is true. People can say anything. The evidence is not overwhelming.

• 51:43Speaker 06

  What is evidence?

• 51:44Danny Jones?

  Hold on a second. Hold on a second, Bart. Hold on. Let, let's lay out some more of your evidence.

• 51:49Speaker 05

  Okay. Okay. Well, you, you retired a general, right? Okay. What was your security clearance?

• 51:59Speaker 06

  Top secret.

• 52:00Speaker 05

  Okay. So when you, when you have a top secret, you're not allowed to tell your wife or your children, right?

• 52:06Speaker 06

  What?

• 52:07Speaker 05

  Whatever the secrets are. Whatever secrets you have as a top secret clearance. If you told your wife or your children, you would be violating your oath. Is that right?

• 52:17Speaker 06

  In the military, that's true, but then we were. NASA did not have us swear an oath that we are lying or not lying.

• 52:27Speaker 05

  I understand, but the point is, you have top-secret clearance, and telling your wife or your children would be violating that oath. So your oath to the corrupt United States federal government includes lying to your wife and to your children. Now, there are 100,000 trials every year in America. 90% of the people are guilty, and yet 100,000 people raise their hand and swear that they're telling the truth. So does every Nazi war criminal. They look like benevolent grandfathers, and yet they go smiling through life and denying to the very end that they committed these crimes, which they did.

• 53:12Speaker 05

  Now, if you're willing to lie to your wife and to your children, why should we believe you?

• 53:19Speaker 06

  Believe me about what?

• 53:22Speaker 05

  Well, you just said you're willing to lie to your wife and children to keep your oath to the corrupt federal government. So if you're willing to lie-

• 53:30Speaker 06

  No, I'm not lying to them. I'm not lying to anybody. I tell them the truth. I landed on the moon.

• 53:36Danny Jones?

  Just because somebody has, I don't think it's fair to say, just because he has a top-secret clearance and he's under an oath to protect government secrets, that doesn't mean that he is inherently a liar.

• 53:47Speaker 05

  I understand that. But it shows that he is willing to lie to his wife and children, and if he's willing to do that, he's willing to lie to the rest of the world. So that's my point. No Nazi war criminal has ever come forward and turned himself in. And when arrested and interrogated, not a single one confessed, even though they were guilty. I'm just mentioning that. So either the gentleman we saw is lying, or you're lying. One of the two. So would a general with top-secret clearance be more likely to lie, or would a sergeant on his deathbed, who confessed to a homicide, be more willing to tell the truth?

• 54:29Danny Jones?

  I think- There's crazy people out there. There's lots of crazy lunatics out there who are willing to, who will say anything and make up stories. And the same thing is true that-

• 54:39Speaker 05

  And one of them is sitting across from me.

• 54:41Danny Jones?

  Well, I don't think so. I don't necessarily think that. I think that anybody who is in a high level military position that has to protect government secrets is gonna protect their oath. It doesn't mean they're a liar. That means that they're protecting national secrets, something they swore to do and devoted their career to. And if they divulge those secrets, they will go to prison for it. And there's been many cases where people have done that, have been sent to prison by the federal government for blowing the whistle on things and following whistleblower protocol. So I don't think we're gonna get anywhere by, by calling people liars, first of all. Second of all-

• 55:15Speaker 05

  What I'm saying is either the gentleman we saw who was lying as he's dying, or you're lying. Only one of them is the true, right? Either that guy's lying while he was dying, confessing to a homicide-

• 55:30Danny Jones?

  Sure, what's your point?

• 55:31Speaker 05

  Well, I'm just bringing that to the audience's attention, right?

• 55:34Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 55:35Speaker 05

  Now, I had a little side note. Who do you think killed JFK?

• 55:39Speaker 06

  I have no idea.

• 55:41Speaker 05

  No clue, huh?

• 55:42Speaker 06

  Okay. I believe, well, I know what this-

• 55:45Speaker 05

  What's your personal opinion?

• 55:50Speaker 06

  I don't, my personal opinion is Oswald or whatever his name is. I don't remember the name.

• 55:57Danny Jones?

  Lee Harvey Oswald.

• 55:58Speaker 06

  Lee Harvey Oswald.

• 55:59Danny Jones?

  The government's position was that he acted alone and he was the sole shooter of JFK.

• 56:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 56:06Speaker 05

  That's what you believe. Yeah. Well, 75% of Americans disagree. The gentleman's relatives disagree. Bobby Kennedy Jr. says he's 100% certain that he was murdered by the CIA because he was gonna abolish them. And then a few years later, Robert McNamara, before he died, he was Defense Secretary during the Vietnam War, he confessed that the whole reason that the war was started, which 90% of the public was against, was they fabricated an attack by the North Vietnamese on an American ship in the Gulf of Tonkin. Even Wikipedia says it was falsified. Now, Congress passed a law called the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.

• 56:52Speaker 05

  Which led to the deaths of 3 million people, including 58,220 of their own citizens. So if they're willing to kill their own president, willing to kill 58,220 of their own citizens, I don't think they're gonna have a problem faking a video image of the moon. In fact, NASA has never kept a schedule in its entire existence, except the most complicated one of all time. Somehow, they were ahead of schedule. You see that? So, here's some names on here, and I wondered if you knew those names. He was very specific. He kept this list as a souvenir.

• 57:36Speaker 05

  So, do you, you know who President Johnson is? You know Neil Armstrong, Edwin Alden, Werner Von Braun? Who's Robert Emanacher?

• 57:46Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 57:47Speaker 05

  Are you familiar with Cannon Air Force Base?

• 57:50Speaker 06

  Not really. I've been to Cannon, landed there, refueled, but I've never been stationed there.

• 57:56Speaker 05

  So what does special ops mean in the Air Force?

• 58:00Speaker 06

  It's just what you're saying, special ops.

• 58:04Speaker 05

  Top secret stuff?

• 58:05Speaker 06

  Generally.

• 58:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, okay. What about, uh, Joseph Kerwin?

• 58:13Speaker 06

  Joe Kerwin was an astronaut, doctor, medical doctor. That's the Joe Kerwin I know.

• 58:20Speaker 05

  What about Thomas Paine?

• 58:21Speaker 06

  Thomas Paine was head of NASA.

• 58:23Speaker 05

  Okay. Christopher Kraft?

• 58:25Speaker 06

  He was head of, uh, Johnson Space Center, but he's also head of Mission Control.

• 58:31Speaker 05

  What about Arthur Trudeau?

• 58:32Speaker 06

  I don't know him. I don't remember him.

• 58:34Speaker 05

  He's the general of Army Intelligence. What about Donald Simon?

• 58:38Speaker 06

  I don't remember him.

• 58:39Speaker 05

  Grant Norrie?

• 58:40Speaker 06

  Who?

• 58:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, those people we couldn't track down.

• 58:43Danny Jones?

  What was the last one you said? Grant Norrie?

• 58:46Speaker 05

  Yeah. We think he's either NSA or CIA. We couldn't track him down.

• 58:51Speaker 06

  So.

• 58:52Danny Jones?

  I guess the point here is that, and I can attest to this.

• 58:56Speaker 06

  Oh, wait, wait, let me, I've lost my.

• 58:59Danny Jones?

  Right, let me, let me sum it, let me sum it up for you. The, the, one of the main reasons for me, and I think I'm speaking for a lot of other folks when I say this, is that when it comes to the Apollo missions, the Apollo missions happened at, in the middle of the Cold War, during the, the peak of government distrust. That's when we know, according to all the declassified documents by the CIA and the FBI, is that the, the government was lying and deceiving the public more than ever. I mean, I don't know how much they're doing now, but as far as all the documents that we have, that was the peak. That was when the, uh, the President of the United States was murdered.

• 59:41Danny Jones?

  That's when we did the Gulf of Tonkin, got into the Vietnam War.

• 59:48Danny Jones?

  The government started doing a secret mind control program with using LSD and other drugs, and that there was the Manson family murders and all of this stuff, right? So, when people look at this stuff, and they're, they're, they're learning the history of the Cold War, and they see that the Apollo, the most astonishing feat of mankind ever happened right in the middle of all of that stuff.

• 1:00:17Danny Jones?

  People just, I think they get taken back by it. Like, so the government was lying about all this other stuff, but the one thing they didn't lie about was the most amazing feat of mankind. Does that make sense to you? Does, does, does that sort of logic, does that make sense? Why people would question that?

• 1:00:39Speaker 06

  Question Apollo?

• 1:00:41Danny Jones?

  Yes, just based on all of the other strategic deception that was happening within the government, like MKUltra, mind control experiments that were going on, the Vietnam War, the assassination of President Kennedy, the Gulf of Tonkin, all of that stuff. It was right in the middle of all of that, all of that, the Bay of Pigs, right? There was Operation Northwoods that got declassified, where the Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted to fly an airplane with nobody in it as a drone and blow it up as a pretext to invade Cuba.

• 1:01:10Speaker 05

  Killing the Americans, they were willing to kill Americans to fake an attack on Cuba.

• 1:01:16Danny Jones?

  This is real declassified stuff that's come out in the federal government with the Warren Commission and all of this stuff.

• 1:01:23Speaker 05

  The same people who would later approve the Apollo program.

• 1:01:28Speaker 06

  You're saying we never landed on the moon?

• 1:01:30Danny Jones?

  Well, no, the question is-

• 1:01:32Speaker 05

  You didn't know that before you got here?

• 1:01:33Danny Jones?

  Charlie, Charlie.

• 1:01:34Speaker 05

  You're a really good actor.

• 1:01:35Speaker 06

  I really didn't know that.

• 1:01:36Speaker 05

  Did you ever win the Academy Award for Best Actor?

• 1:01:39Speaker 06

  No, I really didn't know that you believed that we lied on six missions that landed on the moon.

• 1:01:47Speaker 03

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• 1:02:31Speaker 03

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• 1:02:47Danny Jones?

  Charlie, does it make sense to you that why-

• 1:02:49Speaker 05

  That's right, that's how arrogant the federal government is. Now, if I may have my 40 minutes to answer your question.

• 1:02:54Danny Jones?

  Hold on one second, I want to make sure this lands with him. Does it make sense why people would question that based on all of the other bullshit and lying that was going on, that we know was actually, all the other stuff that we know for a fact was deception?

• 1:03:10Speaker 06

  No, to me Apollo was real to you. But I'm saying, no, wait a minute. In the United States, there were 400,000 people working on Apollo. Right.

• 1:03:20Speaker 05

  Well, let me.

• 1:03:21Speaker 06

  Yes, a minute, let me finish.

• 1:03:23Speaker 05

  You had 40 minutes already, I've only had 10.

• 1:03:25Speaker 06

  I'm sorry, go ahead.

• 1:03:27Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:03:27Speaker 06

  Forgive me.

• 1:03:28Speaker 05

  That's one of the, you know, must be real because of 400,000. And of course, every year, that number increases. There are 400,000 tellers at Bank of America. But do you really think what the teller knows and what the CEO knows about corruption in the bank are identical? I interviewed Eugene Krantz. He told me that someone in the command center at the console can tell no difference whatsoever between a simulation and an actual flight. Do we really think the CIA is so stupid to tell the guy making the glove, or the door, or the boot, hey, we're really not going to the moon, be sure not to tell anybody? And that's why they had you astronauts at the command center to cover the mistakes about

• 1:04:13Speaker 05

  faking it. Once the rocket went up, there's only three eyewitnesses to the mission and no independent press coverage. So if you add people who delivered food and made paper clips and did the printing and the contractors and all their secretaries and food vendors, you could probably pad 400,000. But the atomic bomb involved 129,500 people and only eight people knew what they were building. So if someone in the command center cannot tell the difference between a real flight and a simulated flight, how can the public watching it from their living room or people years later? So that argument is flat. It doesn't go anywhere.

• 1:04:57Speaker 05

  And neither does the argument that the Russians would have spilled the beans. Because I know somebody who works in the command center of the Chinese Space Agency. He said, everybody there knows that the moon missions are fake and they're blackmailing NASA because Congress passed a law forbidding space technology to be sold to China and they're receiving it anyway by blackmail. If I had a picture of a world leader with a prostitute, I could upload it to the internet and now it's worth nothing. Or I could blackmail them year after year after year. And that's what the Soviet Union is doing. Putin knows. He wasn't surprised to find out that the moon missions are fake.

• 1:05:42Speaker 05

  And neither is China. So that doesn't fly either. We're being blackmailed, which is another reason for the truth to come out. Now, I also interviewed Betty Grissom, the widow of the man who is going to be the first man to walk on the moon, who was a whistleblower at NASA to such a degree that he received Secret Service protection the weeks up to his death. I interviewed her for four hours. I interviewed her son for three hours, who's a 747 pilot. They say with 100% certainty that the man who was going to be the first man to walk on the moon was murdered by the CIA. And if you go to D3, it's a short clip.

• 1:06:27Speaker 05

  You can see Scott Grissom say that out of his own mouth. So why is the CIA killing Apollo astronauts who are whistleblowers? What a coincidence, right? Go ahead and play that clip. It's D3.

• 1:06:41Speaker 08

  I think it was intentionally sabotaged by someone. It's been a question in my mind, what was found in the accident investigation and how was that handled? Was the CIA involved or whoever? But it was done intentionally.

• 1:06:57Speaker 05

  So this-

• 1:06:57Danny Jones?

  Do you know the story of, you know, the story of Gus? I'm sure you know the story of the Gus. Gus Grissom was Apollo 1, right?

• 1:07:03Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 1:07:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:04Speaker 05

  And according to his son and widow, he was murdered by the CIA. She told me that on January 26, 1967, he telephoned her from NASA and said, "Hon, for some strange reason, the CIA is all over the launchpad today."

• 1:07:24Speaker 05

  I've never seen him here before. For some reason, they showed up today. Did you ever see the CIA? And the very next day, he's dead by a quote "accident." One of his last words were, "If we can't talk between two buildings, how are we gonna go to the moon?" They couldn't get a wired intercom to work between two buildings. And Neil Armstrong is supposed to pick up the first moon rock. He rehearsed it six weeks beforehand, and the stick to pick up the rock falls apart. And the lunar lander crashed weeks beforehand. If they can't get a stick with a bag on the end of it to stay together, if they can't get an intercom to work between two buildings, how are they gonna go to the moon?

• 1:08:08Speaker 05

  The Soviets launched the first satellite, the first animal, the first man, the first woman, the first spacewalk, the first crew of three, the first of two spacecrafts altogether. They spent five time man-hours in space, and they never went to the moon. China, the most industrialized nation on Earth, says with 50 years better technology, it's gonna take at least 15 years to go to the moon. And yet somehow, they did it in eight years with 1960's technology. Now, if you play Clip 4, this is when my film Astronauts Gone Wild, the link will be in the description of your video, to cybrel.com. We interviewed Ed Mitchell,

• 1:08:53Speaker 05

  and showed him the footage, which is one of the proofs that we'll look at. Footage we uncovered that says, "Do not show to the public at the beginning of the reel, and they're faking being halfway to the moon." They can't leave Earth orbit. And when he was shown that, he turned beet red. He started cursing. He literally kicked me from behind. And in the commotion, we left a wireless microphone on him. And in the commotion, my cameraman forgot to hit "stop record." And you can play back that clip. It's about five seconds long. They're talking about calling the CIA to have me killed.

• 1:09:31Speaker 05

  Let's see it. Who killed? Me.

• 1:09:38Speaker 05

  Now, my source, the son of Cyrus Eugene Akers, after he spoke to me, he went out and he had a security system with the password and everything. That was hacked and his house was broken into and everything about his dad was taken. And then a couple of days later, this is about three and a half years ago, the CIA shows up and threatens to kill him and his family if he ever talks to me again. So, the astronaut, dead astronaut's son, says the CIA is involved and he got whistleblower protection up until the day that he died. The CIA is threatening to kill me, right?

• 1:10:20Speaker 05

  And why would this source of mine, who was also threatened by the CIA, he received whistleblower protection by the FBI? Now, if they went to the moon, why is he receiving, a few years ago, whistleblower protection for being the son of the man who confessed that the moon missions were fake? And then if you play clip five, which is about a minute long, from the documentary Conspiracy Theory: Did We Go to the Moon? There are other deaths. There are a total of 15% of the Apollo astronauts died in accidents within a two-year period. These are the astronauts who would not cooperate with the fraud. Go ahead, play the clip.

• 1:11:03Speaker 09

  But Grissom wasn't the only Apollo critic to meet with a suspicious and untimely death.

• 1:11:12Speaker 09

  Thomas Ronald Barron was a safety inspector during Apollo 1's construction.

• 1:11:18Speaker 09

  After the fire, Barron testified before Congress that the Apollo program was in such disarray that the United States would never make it to the moon. Then exactly one week after he testified, Barron's car was struck by a train.

• 1:11:35Speaker 09

  But the Apollo program continued.

• 1:11:39Speaker 09

  And so did the string of untimely deaths.

• 1:11:44Speaker 09

  Between 1964 and 1967, a total of 10 astronauts lost their lives in freak accidents. These deaths accounted for an astonishing 15% of NASA's astronaut corps.

• 1:11:59Speaker 10

  To keep something that's alive,

• 1:12:03Speaker 10

  wrapped up and covered over, you've got to eliminate all the people that can talk about it.

• 1:12:11Speaker 05

  So we have an eyewitness, that's proof, right?

• 1:12:15Danny Jones?

  It's who's, Akers?

• 1:12:16Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 1:12:17Danny Jones?

  Well, I mean, it's one person's testimony.

• 1:12:19Speaker 05

  I understand. So either he's telling the truth or he's lying.

• 1:12:23Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:12:23Speaker 05

  I'll assume any guy who confesses to a murder, you know, is probably telling the truth.

• 1:12:28Danny Jones?

  You didn't talk to the guy himself. It was allegedly videotaped that you never saw.

• 1:12:33Speaker 05

  That's right, but according to his son.

• 1:12:34Danny Jones?

  According to his son, right.

• 1:12:35Speaker 05

  He was there at the time. And you just judge, is that guy of the video we just saw telling the truth or not?

• 1:12:42Danny Jones?

  The son?

• 1:12:43Speaker 05

  I think it's pretty honest, pretty obvious that he's telling the truth, so.

• 1:12:47Danny Jones?

  People can make their judgment.

• 1:12:48Speaker 05

  That's one reason. Now, another main. Wait a minute, telling the truth about what? About his father's deathbed confession of murdering a coworker to cover up the moon landing fraud at Cannon Air Force Base. So, to me, that guy's telling the truth. Which means if he is, then his father did participate in the moon landing fraud. He went into great detail about the lunar module and the fake lunar set in an airplane hangar filmed a year beforehand. President Johnson showed up. He kept a list of 15 people. Some in their memoirs say they were at Cannon Air Force Base. Cannon Air Force Base used to have on their website, "President Johnson visited us in 1968." They removed it once I started investigating it.

• 1:13:32Speaker 05

  And the main reason for many people. Is that today with five decades better rockets and technology, the farthest that NASA can send an astronaut into space is 1,000th the distance to the moon. So what they're claiming is for the first time in the history of the world, technology was greater in the past than in the future. Because during the Apollo program, all the computers combined had 1 millionth the computing power of a cellphone. So that would be like Lindbergh flying across the Atlantic,

• 1:14:09Speaker 05

  3,000 miles in 1927, and 56 or 7 years later in 1982, no airplane on earth can fly over the Atlantic, and the best one can only fly 3,000 miles. It's impossible to have better technology in the past than in the future. How is it, I mean, is there any machine, technological machine you can think of? Cellphone?

• 1:14:35Danny Jones?

  Supersonic jets.

• 1:14:36Speaker 05

  Microwave, anything that worked better in 1969 than its counterpart today?

• 1:14:42Danny Jones?

  What about supersonic jets?

• 1:14:43Speaker 05

  What about them? The sound barrier is broken 200 times a day, all around the world in military aircraft.

• 1:14:48Danny Jones?

  We stopped using them because they were ineffective and they weren't cost effective, they were inefficient, and they were way more, way more.

• 1:14:55Speaker 05

  Airplanes are breaking the sound barrier at a rate of 200 a day.

• 1:14:58Danny Jones?

  We're using the same airplanes we've been using since the 50s, and we stopped using the supersonic jets. So that would be one example.

• 1:15:05Speaker 05

  No, they're still using jets that break the sound barrier every day.

• 1:15:09Danny Jones?

  Not commercial ones, though.

• 1:15:10Speaker 05

  Well, they decided that people aren't going to pay 20 times more to get there twice as fast.

• 1:15:16Danny Jones?

  Exactly. That's my point.

• 1:15:17Speaker 05

  Right. Well, that, they could use it, but they're just not.

• 1:15:20Danny Jones?

  Correct.

• 1:15:20Speaker 05

  Right. So, so let's listen to this clip, B6 of an Apollo astronaut saying something very bizarre, that NASA intentionally destroyed all the technology. Now, you still have in the Air Force, you may know more specifically, but the B-52 bomber was designed 70 years ago. It's simple, it's reliable, the same words he used about the Saturn V rocket. And there's still 200 of them in service today. So why would they spend a modern equivalent?

• 1:15:59Speaker 05

  of $250 billion to make this rocket that flies to the moon on the very first attempt and then destroy it. Listen to NASA saying they destroyed the technology.

• 1:16:13Speaker 11

  I'd go to the moon in a nanosecond. The problem is, we don't have the technology to do that anymore. We used to, but we destroyed that technology and it's a painful process to build it back again.

• 1:16:27Speaker 05

  So general, why was that technology destroyed?

• 1:16:33Danny Jones?

  What do you?

• 1:16:35Speaker 05

  Why was it destroyed?

• 1:16:36Danny Jones?

  Why do you, do you know why or have any idea why the technology was destroyed by NASA?

• 1:16:41Speaker 06

  I don't know that the technology was destroyed.

• 1:16:43Speaker 05

  Okay, so NASA has not his line?

• 1:16:46Danny Jones?

  Hold on, Bart. Bart, you gotta let him, let him finish his thought.

• 1:16:48Speaker 06

  Yeah. We flew to the moon. Okay, the program was successful. We did six landings on the moon. Okay, we used technology that was designed by Marshall Space Flight Center called a Saturn V rocket, was the biggest rocket so far ever launched to get us to the moon. Okay, so we went to the moon. Took three days to get there. We orbited the moon for a day to get everything correct. Generally, it went that way for all of the six landings on the moon.

• 1:17:25Speaker 06

  And so we got to the moon, we manned the spacecraft, we had, in our flight, we had a delay because of the command module had a problem with the main engine. And Mission Control had to verify that they could get it fixed or work around it. So anyway, we were late landing on Apollo 16 because of this problem. And we land, but we landed in the place we were supposed to land, the Descartes Highlands. We spent 72 hours on the moon. We brought back 200 and... If I remember, 200 pounds of moon rocks, or thereabouts.

• 1:18:09Speaker 06

  Uh, maybe not that much. I forgot exactly.

• 1:18:12Danny Jones?

  But the que- the question about the technology being destroyed, you're not aware of the technology being destroyed or gone missing from all the Apollo programs?

• 1:18:20Speaker 06

  Uh-uh.

• 1:18:21Speaker 05

  Okay, so that NASA astronaut is lying that the technology was destroyed.

• 1:18:25Danny Jones?

  No, he said he wasn't aware of it.

• 1:18:26Speaker 05

  Okay. Well, according to NASA, a modern day astronaut, he said that a couple of years ago, that all the Apollo technology was destroyed. I interviewed Eugene Krantz. He told me all the telemetry data was destroyed. All the original videotapes were destroyed. Right before, right before they were to be transferred to HD, so.

• 1:18:48Danny Jones?

  But we still have the original film.

• 1:18:50Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:18:50Danny Jones?

  The 16 millimeter film is still in Houston at the Johnson Space Center.

• 1:18:54Speaker 05

  Oh, that I don't know. The videotape is what, what they intentionally destroyed.

• 1:18:58Danny Jones?

  The videotape of the projection that was given.

• 1:19:00Speaker 05

  You're talking about the camera mounted lunar module that took one picture.

• 1:19:03Danny Jones?

  All of the film, all of the film that was shot on all the emissions, on all of the missions is still in it, in its original format, in the film reels in that Johnson Space Center.

• 1:19:14Speaker 05

  But the majority of the video images is videotape.

• 1:19:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:19:17Speaker 05

  And that was intentionally destroyed.

• 1:19:19Danny Jones?

  But those were just copies of the film, right?

• 1:19:21Speaker 05

  No, these are the originals. I talked to Eugene Krantz. He said the original videotapes were accidentally recorded over, and the only machine on earth that could play it back was intentionally disassembled.

• 1:19:33Danny Jones?

  Okay, I'm confused.

• 1:19:33Speaker 05

  So that even if they're found, they couldn't be played.

• 1:19:35Danny Jones?

  I'm confused.

• 1:19:36Speaker 05

  All the telemetry data, where the rocket really was. So the, back to the destroyed.

• 1:19:40Danny Jones?

  One second, can I ask a question?

• 1:19:41Speaker 05

  Well, e- either this guy is lying, right? Why would a NASA astronaut lie? Has there ever been a time, and this is another proof, has there ever been a time in the history of the world that someone developed a new technology, broke the sound barrier, split the atom, and then destroyed the technology afterwards? It's never happened. It's never happened. They're, they destroyed it to cover their tracks. Because I went scuba diving, and to have an hour's worth of air, it takes two tanks this big and that big around. That would be 16 tanks of air you would have to have on your back on the moon. And then to allegedly get the lunar module.

• 1:20:24Speaker 05

  Down to 72 degrees on inside for three days against 250 degrees outside on a bank of essentially car batteries. It can't be done. That's why they destroyed all the technology because it could be proved later that the rocket didn't have enough fuel to leave Earth orbit, which we have proof of as well. I have Von Braun's own quote, which we'll read, that says, "One rocket will never go to the moon without multiple fueling," and we'll show that from Von Braun as well.

• 1:20:53Danny Jones?

  Can I ask a question?

• 1:20:54Speaker 05

  Yeah. What has that got to do with our discussion? Well, he asked, "What proof do we have that they didn't go to the moon?" And there's a lot of proof.

• 1:21:03Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:21:04Speaker 05

  That you didn't go to the moon.

• 1:21:05Danny Jones?

  I have a.

• 1:21:06Speaker 05

  How about the proof that is that we did go to the moon? Well, we already heard all of that. 400,000 people, that's been refuted. The Russians would have blabbed, that's been refuted. The moon rocks has been refuted. It's one of my clips. That Neil Armstrong chain of custody allegedly picked up a rock, personally put it in his pocket, and then later personally gave it to the Prime Minister of the Netherlands, which was immediately sealed in a container in a museum, was opened up a few years ago, and it's petrified wood. It's a fake. The moon rocks are fake. And Antarctica. Von Braun went to Antarctica to pick up pounds and pounds of lunar meteorites.

• 1:21:46Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:21:47Speaker 05

  The rocks are either duplicates of meteorites picked up on Earth, made in a ceramics lab, or just fake.

• 1:21:53Danny Jones?

  All right.

• 1:21:54Speaker 05

  And NASA had no comment. What do you have to say for yourself for a rock that had chain of custody from the moon to Neil Armstrong's hand to this museum instead of being a fake? NASA says, "No comment."

• 1:22:05Danny Jones?

  All right. You're peppering us with fact after fact, and it's just too much. We need to stick to one thing, okay? What's one thing? Let's stick on one topic so we can go back and forth, and we can get Charlie's opinion on it, and we can get your opinion on it, and I can evaluate what's going on. Let's talk about the film, okay? So, one of the biggest questions people have about this is, "Why is all the original footage and the telemetry data gone from the Apollo missions?" But I want to clarify something first. All of the footage that we have from the moon, was that shot on film specifically? On film cameras, like 16 millimeter film?

• 1:22:50Speaker 06

  We have, we had a 16 millimeter camera. We had a Hasselblad, which took photographs. And we had a TV that sent back television from the lunar rover to Earth.

• 1:23:08Danny Jones?

  Like a specific type of camera for television?

• 1:23:11Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was a television camera that we mounted on the front of the rover.

• 1:23:15Danny Jones?

  Okay, but this, this, then those don't use film. I'm not a camera expert. They don't use film?

• 1:23:19Speaker 06

  No, it was a TV picture.

• 1:23:21Danny Jones?

  Okay, so just broadcast straight, doesn't record anything on it? It's just live broadcast?

• 1:23:26Speaker 06

  It was recorded down here in mission control.

• 1:23:29Danny Jones?

  Okay, got it, got it. Okay, I understand.

• 1:23:31Speaker 06

  But we didn't have a recorder on, well, we had, I'm not sure, but I don't think we had a recorder on board.

• 1:23:38Danny Jones?

  Okay, so the TV cameras were recorded down at mission control? And those would have been recorded on tapes, I'm guessing?

• 1:23:47Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:23:47Danny Jones?

  And those would be the tapes that have been erased?

• 1:23:50Speaker 06

  Correct.

• 1:23:50Danny Jones?

  Okay, so that was the incompetence of NASA allegedly?

• 1:23:53Speaker 06

  Or intentional, just like they intentionally destroyed the technology, they intentionally erased the tapes. They knew what they were. Their excuse was to make room for other projects.

• 1:24:04Danny Jones?

  So Steve, if you ask ChatGPT, let's ask ChatGPT, what happened to the original tapes from the NASA missions? And let's see what the answer it gives is.

• 1:24:18Speaker 12

  Well, that would be this right here.

• 1:24:19Danny Jones?

  Oh, you already have it?

• 1:24:20Speaker 12

  Yeah.

• 1:24:20Danny Jones?

  All right. The original tapes were later erased and reused. NASA routinely used magnetic tapes in the 60s and through the 80s due to storage, cost, and shortages. So that's, that's crazy. That we, that the tapes from the lunar missions were recorded over.

• 1:24:39Speaker 12

  They're, they're saying that the, the

• 1:24:41Speaker 06

  Yeah, and they were recorded over right before.

• 1:24:43Speaker 12

  Locally recorded stuff was, was the slow scan stuff?

• 1:24:47Danny Jones?

  Film, right?

• 1:24:48Speaker 12

  I know, I think it was tape, it's actual tape, like, you know, like tape recorders?

• 1:24:52Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:24:53Speaker 12

  They use that technology instead of film? Yeah, with one inch videotape. That stuff was recorded over, but the stuff that they sent through broadcast survived.

• 1:25:02Speaker 05

  Well, Ron Howard, whose grandfather warned him that the moon missions were fake, didn't listen, wanted to make an IMAX movie, and he requested all the original videotapes to be broadcast, projected on an IMAX screen about 100 feet by 120 feet.

• 1:25:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:25:21Speaker 05

  Bigger than they've ever been done before. He wanted to use the originals. And it was between that request and a couple of days later that everything got erased. He had to go to Blockbuster and rent VHS tapes and reduce them to this tiny portion of the screen. Otherwise, the image quality would be so bad, you can see the VHS tracking line. 90% of that movie is reenactments.

• 1:25:47Danny Jones?

  Is that a fact? That, what year was this? When Ron Howard requested the tapes from NASA?

• 1:25:51Speaker 05

  It was around 1999, something like that.

• 1:25:54Danny Jones?

  So around, Steve, hopefully you can look this up. Ron Howard was working on an IMAX film in around 1999, requested the original tapes from NASA. And we, you're saying it is an absolute fact that we can look up, that NASA erased those tapes?

• 1:26:10Speaker 05

  He just did.

• 1:26:11Danny Jones?

  Right after Ron Howard requested them?

• 1:26:13Speaker 05

  Well, that was my research at the time. My film at sibrel.com took seven years to produce. I was given a million dollars by someone who builds rockets for NASA, who knows the moon missions are fake, who thought it was his patriotic duty to expose it. Now, not only is it the first time in history that technology is greater in the past and in the future, not only is it the only time in history that all of the documentation, all the technology, according to NASA astronauts, was intentionally destroyed, it's also the first time in history that nobody could repeat the event 50 years later. Imagine them splitting

• 1:26:54Speaker 05

  the atom in 1945, the first atomic bomb, and 50 years later, no one can split the atom, when in fact, just 10 years later, atomic bombs were 1,000 times more powerful. So if they could go to the moon on the first attempt, ahead of schedule, with 1 millionth the computing power of a cellphone, we would have been on Mars 10 years later, we'd be in another solar system by now, and there'd be bases all over the moon, taking people back and forth to play basketball on 1,000, or 1/6 gravity. The best NASA can do today...

• 1:27:28Speaker 05

  Is send mannequins to orbit the moon when somehow we could play golf and drive cars on the moon with 1960s technology on the first attempt. There have been six presidents who have said a total of nine times they're gonna return to the moon in five years. You had Ronald Reagan said it, then Clinton said it, then Bush Senior said it, then Bush Junior said it twice, and Obama said it twice, and Trump said it one time, and they can't do it. With 50 years better technology, they can't return to the moon in 50 years. But somehow they could do it with 1960s technology on the first attempt.

• 1:28:10Danny Jones?

  Why, why, why don't you think we've been able to go back to the moon since 70, 72?

• 1:28:14Speaker 06

  Because they spent their money on other programs.

• 1:28:16Speaker 05

  Well, the government spends every month 70% more money than they take in.

• 1:28:22Speaker 06

  Look, I'm not gonna argue with you about this. We went to the moon. Six times we landed on the moon.

• 1:28:28Speaker 05

  You lied to the American public six times, which has the arrogance of the American. Well, then, I guess this guy is lying.

• 1:28:35Speaker 06

  You don't believe we landed on the moon.

• 1:28:37Speaker 05

  You didn't know that before you got here?

• 1:28:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no. His life's worse.

• 1:28:42Speaker 06

  So, how did, how did we get 600 pounds of moon rocks?

• 1:28:45Speaker 05

  Well, like I said-

• 1:28:46Danny Jones?

  Let's talk about the moon rock. Okay, let's, let's, let's, let's put a pin there. Now, let's talk about the moon rocks, okay? What, why, what evidence do you have? I know you have some, that proves that the moon rocks were not actually moon rocks, right?

• 1:28:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, if you could find, let me find the clip here. Or you could look it up.

• 1:29:04Danny Jones?

  Bar's position is-

• 1:29:05Speaker 05

  Netherlands fake, fake moon rock. Let's go to clip D7 real quick. This is a recent article about the French government. And they did, they committed a crime in 1945 that they're still lying about today. And what happened was their soldiers returned from World War II and wanting their back pay, and they refused to give it to them because they were black. And when they kept protesting, they machine gunned 300 of them in a single base and buried them. That just came out, that happened in 1945, and play the clip, and let's read this news article.

• 1:29:47Speaker 05

  It says, one of the things that they did was they fabricated.

• 1:29:52Danny Jones?

  What is that through the moon rocks?

• 1:29:53Speaker 05

  Because it shows governments, it says they fabricated and destroyed evidence. So we're going to look at the fabrication. I'm just trying to find the clip here. It's out of sequence.

• 1:30:03Danny Jones?

  All right.

• 1:30:03Speaker 05

  About the, about the moon rocks.

• 1:30:05Danny Jones?

  Bart.

• 1:30:07Speaker 05

  Or you could look it up. Look up fake moon rock in Amsterdam.

• 1:30:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah, let's, well, yeah. So are the moon rocks something that is available for the public to see?

• 1:30:17Speaker 05

  D29.

• 1:30:18Speaker 06

  Yeah. I mean, the moon rocks on, on display all over the world. And also they're, they're still doing experiments on the moon rock. NASA's, the Lunar Planetary Institute, or whoever it is, is controlling those and sending those out. People submit, uh, experiment requests still today about to, to do experiments on the moon rocks. So there's still moon rocks available.

• 1:30:41Danny Jones?

  And do they, do they let outside researchers, uh, do anal, analysis on them?

• 1:30:47Speaker 06

  Universities, yeah.

• 1:30:48Danny Jones?

  Universities do?

• 1:30:49Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:30:50Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:30:50Speaker 06

  I mean, they let universities have some. Like, I'm not involved in that at all.

• 1:30:55Danny Jones?

  Right, right, sure.

• 1:30:56Speaker 06

  And, you know, I've been with NASA for a long time, but, uh, the moon rocks are unique. And, uh, and they're radioactive, uh, whatever, and not radioactive evidence, but they're, the way they are, have been collected, they were collected on every mission. Uh, they were, uh, isolated when they got back and put in the, uh, lunar receiving lab. And now they're still being given out, uh, samples of, people are still requesting samples of moon rocks. And NASA evaluates these experiments that, that they request. And apparently they're still, uh, giving some of it out.

• 1:31:41Speaker 06

  I have been with NASA in a long, long time, so I don't know how it works today.

• 1:31:45Danny Jones?

  So Bart, how do you explain us having actual moon rocks here on Earth?

• 1:31:49Speaker 05

  Well, like I said, Von Braun went to Antarctica. There's a picture of him in Antarctica where he collected hundreds of pounds of lunar meteorites, which they use for fake moon rocks. NASA also has the most advanced ceramics lab. In the world where they could take a right, a rock and falsify micrometeorite sitting it and then go to clip 29, this is about moon rocks. It says they, they opened one up and it proved to be fake. Do you realize a few years ago, a 70 year old woman was arrested by the FBI and thrown in a cell, not allowed to go to the bathroom. She had to pee on herself because she had a paperweight with one speck of an alleged moon rock in the very center of it.

• 1:32:32Speaker 05

  And she couldn't pay her electric bill or mortgage. It was given to her by her husband who got it from someone at NASA and the FBI surrounded her to get that so that it couldn't be opened and examined independently. And this is just a tiny speck of a moon rock.

• 1:32:48Danny Jones?

  Who is like, what was this woman's name?

• 1:32:50Speaker 05

  I don't know, but you could look it up. 70 year old woman arrested for having a moon rock or trying to sell a moon rock. And play clip 29, you said, what's the proof of the fake moon rocks? You have D 29 there, Steve.

• 1:33:02Danny Jones?

  Let's see it.

• 1:33:03Speaker 05

  Look at D 29, it's a spill of the article.

• 1:33:06Danny Jones?

  Okay, from the telegraph.

• 1:33:08Speaker 05

  Given to Holland by Neil Armstrong is a fake. This is one that had complete chain of custody from the surface of the moon to Neil Armstrong's hand, to his pocket, to the prime minister of the Netherlands, hermetically sealed, opened a few years ago after someone watched my film out of curiosity. And it ends up being this out of world looking piece of petrified wood. Now unless trees are growing on the moon, the moon rock is fake. And yet no reporter has the courage to ask if the moon rocks are fake, what about the moon missions? I had a reporter from the Washington Post that broke the Watergate story. I showed him the footage, which we're going to show of them faking being halfway to the

• 1:33:53Speaker 05

  moon that says, don't show to the public at the beginning of it.

• 1:33:56Danny Jones?

  You're all over the place.

• 1:33:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, but the point, the point is he agreed that it proved they never left Earth orbit, but he was forbidden to publish it.

• 1:34:06Danny Jones?

  Okay. We gotta stick to one topic. Let's go back to the moon rocks. This piece of petrified wood that you were showing that was given to the prime minister of Holland, right? Or I thought it was a Dutch prime minister.

• 1:34:15Speaker 05

  The same thing, Dutch as Holland or Netherlands.

• 1:34:17Danny Jones?

  I thought it was like the Netherlands, right? Correct. Okay. I've heard this story before. I heard you. I first heard it from you.

• 1:34:26Danny Jones?

  I also heard a pushback on this, that it was not Buzz Aldrin or Neil Armstrong who gave it to the Prime Minister of the Netherlands. However, it was the US Ambassador to the Netherlands that gave him this thing.

• 1:34:39Speaker 05

  Well, from my understanding, it went-

• 1:34:41Danny Jones?

  So it was not directly from him?

• 1:34:42Speaker 05

  Neil Armstrong is the one who said he picked it up. And it was on a visit of him-

• 1:34:47Danny Jones?

  Said it to who?

• 1:34:48Speaker 05

  He visited the Netherlands and gave it to the Prime Minister.

• 1:34:52Danny Jones?

  Okay, we should find this.

• 1:34:53Speaker 05

  He claimed he picked it up and put it in his pocket. The point is-

• 1:34:57Danny Jones?

  Let's find this. Who gave, who gave the Prime Minister of the Netherlands the fake moon rock? Who actually gave it to him?

• 1:35:03Speaker 05

  So for 40 years, everyone thought it was a moon rock. It was billed as a moon rock, picked up off the lunar surface by Apollo 11. They did a little tour around the world afterwards. He gave moon rocks to various people. He gave one to the Prime Minister of the Netherlands. It was sealed. It was opened up a few years ago.

• 1:35:21Danny Jones?

  Okay, right here.

• 1:35:22Speaker 05

  It was proven to be a piece of-

• 1:35:23Danny Jones?

  Bart, right here. It says, it says, "Prime Minister," okay, the rock, the rock was not given to the Dutch Prime Minister by astronauts, but was instead given to the former Prime Minister William Drees by the then US Ambassador William Midendorf in 1969 during a goodwill, a goodwill tour by the Apollo 11 astronauts.

• 1:35:42Speaker 05

  Okay, so the Apollo 11 astronauts were there.

• 1:35:45Danny Jones?

  And actually, and actually was a piece of petrified wood.

• 1:35:48Speaker 05

  Okay, so Neil Armstrong was there at the visit. That's when the rock was given. He claimed he picked it up. The Prime Minister of the Netherlands didn't pick it up. Neil Armstrong picked it up. There he is. Apollo 11 astronauts during the goodwill tour.

• 1:36:02Danny Jones?

  We don't, we don't, we don't know that, okay, it says it was during the tour, the goodwill tour.

• 1:36:06Speaker 05

  Okay, so either Neil Armstrong or Buzz Aldrin claimed to pick it up.

• 1:36:09Danny Jones?

  So it's, it seems-

• 1:36:10Speaker 05

  Well, because you can't figure it out. You claimed the moon rocks are proof.

• 1:36:14Danny Jones?

  You gotta put the headphones on, or you can't just keep talking over everybody, bro. It's like, it's, it's too much.

• 1:36:17Speaker 05

  Okay, I'm sorry.

• 1:36:18Danny Jones?

  It's too much. He's, his point is that this piece of moon rock that was given to the Prime Minister of the Netherlands during the Apollo 11 goodwill tour by, with Neil and Buzz, was later and now analyzed and found to be petrified wood and not a moon rock. That's his evidence that the moon rocks aren't real.

• 1:36:45Speaker 06

  Well, uh, I brought back a couple hundred pounds, maybe, moon rocks. I don't remember exactly. And they're very unique. Uh, they got a radiation history that is unique.

• 1:37:01Danny Jones?

  They look anything like that?

• 1:37:02Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:37:03Danny Jones?

  No?

• 1:37:04Speaker 06

  They look like, uh, uh, look like charcoal and they don't look like that.

• 1:37:12Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:37:13Speaker 06

  Uh, they look like more gray charcoal.

• 1:37:16Danny Jones?

  What was the biggest moon rock that you brought back?

• 1:37:20Speaker 06

  I think 25 pounds.

• 1:37:22Danny Jones?

  Whoa. Like roughly, roughly how big though?

• 1:37:25Speaker 06

  I had to roll it up my leg. It was so big, first EVA at Plum Crater. And, uh...

• 1:37:32Danny Jones?

  Is that a moon rock, right? Is that a real moon rock?

• 1:37:36Speaker 06

  We didn't collect anything like that, the one on the right.

• 1:37:40Danny Jones?

  No?

• 1:37:40Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:37:41Danny Jones?

  What, what? Zoom out, Steve, and see if you can find, see if you can find something that, um, Charlie would think that looks like, uh, one of the moon rocks that he grabbed. Does any of this look like one of the rocks that you had?

• 1:37:53Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:37:54Danny Jones?

  No?

• 1:37:55Speaker 06

  Mm-mm.

• 1:37:55Danny Jones?

  What if we Googled Charlie Duke moon rock?

• 1:37:58Speaker 06

  Oh, there you go. Maybe Apollo 16 moon rock.

• 1:38:03Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, or Apollo 16 moon rock, yeah.

• 1:38:06Speaker 06

  Uh, Big Muley I picked up. Go left, is that Big Muley? The one on the left.

• 1:38:13Danny Jones?

  Zoom out, Steve.

• 1:38:14Speaker 06

  That one, the big, big Muley. No, the other one, to the left.

• 1:38:19Danny Jones?

  That one?

• 1:38:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, uh-huh.

• 1:38:22Danny Jones?

  That's a, that's, that's a real moon rock.

• 1:38:23Speaker 06

  That's, I, I picked it up, yeah.

• 1:38:26Danny Jones?

  That was a 25 pounder?

• 1:38:27Speaker 06

  I don't remember. I, no, it didn't weigh that much, but...

• 1:38:30Danny Jones?

  No?

• 1:38:32Speaker 06

  But I don't remember. We picked a total collection for Apollo 16 was probably a couple hundred pounds.

• 1:38:40Danny Jones?

  And what, when you got him into the, uh, the module, when you got the rocks in there, did you have them in any kind of specific bag or anything?

• 1:38:48Speaker 06

  We had them in, in, uh, uh, vacuum, vacuum, um, boxes.

• 1:38:55Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:38:55Speaker 06

  A lot of them.

• 1:38:56Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:38:56Speaker 06

  And, and a lot of them were just, uh, uh, in a, in, in, I don't remember exactly, in none of them. Whether we had had them brought back or just didn't have room for them in these rock boxes, we call them.

• 1:39:11Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:39:11Speaker 06

  But most of them were put in rock boxes outside and so never saw atmosphere inside.

• 1:39:17Danny Jones?

  Right. So, once you took your suit off, you weren't able to interact with them at all? You couldn't touch them, you could smell them?

• 1:39:24Speaker 06

  I don't remember doing any of that, no.

• 1:39:26Danny Jones?

  No. What about once you got back to Earth? Did you touch them at all or hold them at all when you got back to Earth?

• 1:39:30Speaker 06

  We went into the lunar receiving lab where they were and we were able to put on gloves or whatever it was and sterilize that thing and just look at them. But I don't remember being, picking them up and tossing them around or anything like that.

• 1:39:49Danny Jones?

  Were there any smells that you remembered? Like, usually smells are good at triggering memories. Like, was there any, any specific smell that was strange to you about the moon? When you, even when you got back in the?

• 1:40:00Speaker 06

  Well, we were pretty stinky, I can say that.

• 1:40:03Danny Jones?

  A lot of BO.

• 1:40:03Speaker 06

  A lot of BO.

• 1:40:04Danny Jones?

  A lot of BO, but nothing else? No, no other interesting smells?

• 1:40:08Speaker 06

  No. Well, I mean, some of the food smelled. You could, you know, smell a tuna salad or something like that.

• 1:40:16Danny Jones?

  What about like dust or something, like dust from the moon on your suit? Or on your boots or something, anything like that? No?

• 1:40:23Speaker 06

  I don't remember any smell from the, but it, sometimes it smelled like, there was a gunpowder smell, sometimes.

• 1:40:32Danny Jones?

  What was that from?

• 1:40:33Speaker 06

  I don't know. It's probably moon dust, but I'm not sure.

• 1:40:37Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:40:38Speaker 06

  But it was, there's no organic material in it, like, like gunpowder.

• 1:40:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:40:45Speaker 06

  So.

• 1:40:46Danny Jones?

  Okay. Okay, so these, this moon rock debate is difficult because we don't have any moon rocks and we haven't done any analysis on any moon rocks.

• 1:40:55Speaker 06

  We picked up that one big newly.

• 1:40:57Danny Jones?

  Okay. Yeah, it looks absolutely nothing like the petrified wood on the left.

• 1:41:01Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:41:04Danny Jones?

  So it was given to this guy. So I guess the story is, the story is true. I mean, we've, if we've corroborated it with other, with AI and with Bart's store, with Bart's article that that gift was given, but it wasn't, it was given by the US ambassador to the Prime Minister of the Netherlands.

• 1:41:20Speaker 06

  The one on the left?

• 1:41:21Danny Jones?

  The one on the left, yeah. And it was, uh, he was told-

• 1:41:24Speaker 06

  Doesn't look like any of the moon rocks we collected.

• 1:41:26Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 1:41:27Speaker 05

  But you said they were different in different landing sites earlier, that the rocks at your side in Apollo 11 were different.

• 1:41:33Danny Jones?

  Were the rocks different in different landing sites? Do they look different?

• 1:41:36Speaker 06

  Not that I recall. Not that different. They're not that much different.

• 1:41:40Danny Jones?

  Right, okay, okay.

• 1:41:43Speaker 05

  The number one proof is what we have next. And I'm answering your question about what proof there is. Now, I gave NASA the benefit-

• 1:41:50Danny Jones?

  About what specifically?

• 1:41:51Speaker 05

  About how they didn't go to the moon. They can't leave Earth orbit. They still can't leave Earth orbit.

• 1:41:56Danny Jones?

  Are we talking about radiation belts now?

• 1:41:57Speaker 05

  No, I'm talking about the footage of them faking being halfway to the moon.

• 1:42:00Danny Jones?

  The foot, okay, the footage, okay.

• 1:42:02Speaker 05

  If you show-

• 1:42:02Danny Jones?

  I do, after this, I would like to talk about the radiation belts, if that's okay.

• 1:42:05Speaker 05

  That's next, after this, right? And, and so first, let's look at the slide, D8. This is at the beginning of the reel. I asked NASA for every video, every film from Apollo 11, figuring if they faked it, they're more likely to have made a mistake the first time they faked it. Now, keep in mind, I went from being the biggest fan, Gaga, worshipping the Apollo 11 project with pictures on my wall everywhere I went, like a shrine, to having an open mind that maybe they faked it, to looking into it, being given a million dollars by somebody who builds rockets for NASA to investigate it, who said that they were fake, and then stumbling upon this evidence, which is what convinced me that they were

• 1:42:50Speaker 05

  fake. In fact, this footage was shown to two NBC news directors. They both agreed it proved that Apollo 11 never left Earth orbit, and they were threatened by the federal government not to broadcast it or to have their license pulled. So the first part you'll see in D8 is the slide that says not for public distribution.

• 1:43:12Speaker 12

  Oh, it's not popped up.

• 1:43:14Danny Jones?

  Oh, there we go.

• 1:43:14Speaker 05

  Okay, so that shows that this is not for public distribution. Now, the next clip is at the very-

• 1:43:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah, let's, let's, let's read it. It says, "This film of the Apollo 11 mission was produced as a report." Film by the manned spacecraft center and is not for general public distribution.

• 1:43:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, I asked NASA for unedited footage and everything I got was pre-edited with a voiceover. And it's the same footage over and over again on 10 different reels, exact same footage. Most reporters are satisfied with that. I'm investigating the possibility that they faked it and I asked for everything specifically unedited footage. I got this in one of the reel that was unedited. Now, at the very beginning of the reel, clip nine, which we're about to play, you'll hear NASA say, "The TV picture looks great." Then there is exactly four seconds of dead air. You'll hear a third party that's not NASA, not the astronauts, presumably the CIA.

• 1:44:17Speaker 05

  And after four seconds go by, they tell Neil Armstrong in a private earpiece, "Talk." And then he starts speaking because he's claiming that he is halfway to the moon at this point in the mission. The timestamp indicates, according to the script, that they're supposed to be halfway to the moon. In fact, they never left Earth orbit. They can't leave Earth orbit now and there's a number of reasons for that. So.

• 1:44:43Danny Jones?

  Charlie, have you ever seen this footage before?

• 1:44:45Speaker 06

  No, it's crazy.

• 1:44:46Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:44:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, it is crazy how corrupt the federal government is.

• 1:44:50Speaker 06

  Well, you calling me a liar, I never went to the moon.

• 1:44:53Speaker 05

  Well, obviously. I mean, what a surprise. You knew who you were gonna be here. You knew who was gonna be here before you got here. You act like it's a surprise.

• 1:45:02Speaker 06

  I am a surprise. I didn't realize that you thought it was all a fake.

• 1:45:06Speaker 05

  You knew that. You reminded me of our phone conversation 20 years ago when you walked in the door. That I said, "We had, I had," you quoted me word for word.

• 1:45:16Danny Jones?

  I showed you his website before you came down here.

• 1:45:18Speaker 05

  That we didn't go to the moon. You knew when he invited you. This is no surprise. And yet you're acting like you're surprised. This is why you should get the Academy Award. Now, the reason is if he's halfway to the moon, there would be an estimated two-second radio time there and two seconds back. So they're faking.

• 1:45:36Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:45:36Speaker 05

  A radio delay.

• 1:45:37Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:45:38Speaker 05

  You'll hear NASA, you'll hear four seconds go by, you'll hear a third party that's not NASA, not the astronauts, prompt Neil Armstrong with "Talk." And that way they can fake the four-second radio delay. Go ahead, play clip nine.

• 1:45:52Speaker 13

  Call Apollo 11, Houston, Gulfstone 350, TV looks gray, over.

• 1:46:03Speaker 13

  I'm the Roger.

• 1:46:07Speaker 13

  Call Apollo 11, Houston, Gulfstone 350, TV looks gray, over.

• 1:46:17Speaker 13

  Charlie. I'm the Roger.

• 1:46:22Speaker 05

  Okay, so there's-

• 1:46:23Danny Jones?

  And where was it, what's it, where did you get this stuff from again?

• 1:46:26Speaker 05

  From NASA.

• 1:46:27Danny Jones?

  NASA sent you this?

• 1:46:28Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:46:28Danny Jones?

  And, and, and-

• 1:46:29Speaker 05

  Bill King seen a contract-

• 1:46:29Danny Jones?

  One second, one second, one second. They sent it to you by mistake?

• 1:46:32Speaker 05

  Either that, or someone, one of my sources at NASA who said the missions were fake thinks a whistleblower sent it to me.

• 1:46:39Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:46:39Speaker 05

  And so-

• 1:46:40Danny Jones?

  Hold on, Charlie, what do you make of that?

• 1:46:43Speaker 06

  I don't understand what he's talking about here, but the missions were not fake.

• 1:46:46Danny Jones?

  No, okay.

• 1:46:47Speaker 06

  They sent me to the moon.

• 1:46:49Speaker 05

  We understand that, you've been seen there for 56 years.

• 1:46:51Danny Jones?

  Hold on, Bart. The, the footage that we just watched was from Apollo 11. Could you hear it, can you hear it in your headphones? It's, it's Houston communicating with the astronauts on the radio, and then you hear a four-second delay, and then you can hear the audio of someone going, "Talk." And then you hear Neil Armstrong responding to Houston. Let's watch it one more time, let's show Charlie one more time.

• 1:47:13Speaker 06

  I didn't get that.

• 1:47:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah, let's show him one more time. Just read the text.

• 1:47:20Speaker 13

  Call Apollo 11, Houston, Gulfstone 350, TV looks gray, over.

• 1:47:26Danny Jones?

  Two, three, four.

• 1:47:30Speaker 13

  Charlie. I'm the Roger.

• 1:47:34Danny Jones?

  Does that, does that make sense?

• 1:47:36Speaker 13

  No.

• 1:47:37Speaker 05

  They can't leave Earth orbit today, and they can't leave Earth orbit in 1969.

• 1:47:50Danny Jones?

  So the footage is footage of the moon and you could hear Neil talking to Houston, right? In that video clip?

• 1:47:57Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:58Danny Jones?

  You could hear them talking. And there's a little voice that pops up after four seconds that says, "Talk" to Neil. Why would there be a voice?

• 1:48:06Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 1:48:07Danny Jones?

  Telling Neil to talk?

• 1:48:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:48:09Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:48:10Speaker 06

  Are they on the moon or they?

• 1:48:12Danny Jones?

  They're halfway, right?

• 1:48:13Speaker 05

  They're supposed to be halfway to the moon.

• 1:48:14Danny Jones?

  So this is when they were halfway to the moon, communicating with Houston. And after Houston said something on the radio, there was four seconds and then somebody on the radio saying, "Talk" to Neil, instructing Neil to respond to Houston after four seconds. Why do you think that would be?

• 1:48:32Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 1:48:33Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:48:34Speaker 06

  I've... In my recollection, I was in mission control for Apollo 10. I was Capcom. I was in mission control for Apollo 11. It's Capcom. And nothing like this ever happened in mission control.

• 1:48:54Danny Jones?

  No, there would never be anybody saying, "Talk" to anybody. It would just be as soon as you hear it, you would respond.

• 1:49:00Speaker 06

  Generally, that was true, yeah.

• 1:49:02Danny Jones?

  Okay, what were the exceptions?

• 1:49:05Speaker 06

  Uh... I can't think of any right now, but I mean, "Say again, Houston," or "Say..." A lot of reasons that mission control had, not mission control, but we had problems, scratchy communications.

• 1:49:31Danny Jones?

  So if you couldn't understand?

• 1:49:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:49:33Danny Jones?

  Okay, I see what you're saying.

• 1:49:34Speaker 06

  "Say again," whatever.

• 1:49:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, except the quality, the EQ of the audio of "Talk" is completely different. It's not, obviously, NASA who just spoke.

• 1:49:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:49:44Speaker 05

  And it's not Neil Armstrong who responded. They're faking a four-second radio delay to pretend that they're beyond Earth orbit.

• 1:49:50Danny Jones?

  So this is him, so Bart's position is that video with them, with the voice coming in and saying, "Talk," is them trying to fake a four-second delay? That's part of his argument?

• 1:50:04Danny Jones?

  So what I mean, I don't, I don't understand. That's just one of his arguments is that there because you hear the, the voice come in and say, "Talk." The talk comes in four seconds after Houston finishes their statement, right? So

• 1:50:21Danny Jones?

  the presumption from Bart is there's no delay. But they, the astronauts were instructed to wait for four seconds until someone else came in and said, "Talk." That way it would look like there was a four second delay and it would look like they were already halfway to the moon.

• 1:50:39Speaker 05

  Right, because if you play clip 11, Neil Armstrong, for the TV audience, the part that was shown to the public, says he's calling in from about 130,000 miles out.

• 1:50:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:50:49Speaker 05

  Halfway to the moon. Go ahead and play clip 11.

• 1:50:53Speaker 10

  Hi Roger, Houston, Apollo 11. Calling in from about 130,000 miles out.

• 1:50:59Speaker 05

  Okay, so that's him lying. He's not 130,000 miles out. He's still in Earth orbit. That's why they faked the four second radio delay. Now play clip 10.

• 1:51:09Danny Jones?

  Is this the, is this the photo of them faking the window thing?

• 1:51:11Speaker 05

  Almost, the one before.

• 1:51:12Danny Jones?

  Okay, okay. Let's try to, let's try to go through this. We have a lot to cover and we're almost two hours in.

• 1:51:19Speaker 10

  We only have one window that has a view of the Earth and it's filled up with the TV camera.

• 1:51:25Speaker 05

  Okay, so go back to clip 11. The 130,000 miles out, don't play the audio, but just bring up the image and you can hit pause so we can see the image. So according to Neil Armstrong, there's only one window that has a view of the Earth and it's filled up with the TV camera because if you-

• 1:51:44Danny Jones?

  Make sure you're talking to the mic.

• 1:51:45Speaker 05

  Oh yeah. So if you were really halfway to the moon, looking back at the Earth like this appears to demonstrate, even though it's a fake shot, you would have to have the lens of the camera to the window in order to shoot the Earth far away, floating in space. He says, he's lying, 130,000 miles out, and he says that the camera is completely filling up the window. That's a lie too. The camera is really at the back of the spacecraft. There's about 15 feet between the camera and the window. They've turned out all the lights, which they talk about because they thought these conversations would be edited out. And that's actually the circular window of the spacecraft, outside of which it's filled

• 1:52:30Speaker 05

  with the Earth in low Earth orbit. One photographer, cinematographer, believes they took a transparency, a positive, a slide of the Earth photographed from a satellite and placed it over the window that was backlit by Earth shine. Now, if you play the final clip.

• 1:52:50Speaker 05

  Oh, the D11, play it all the way through to revealing. So play 11 one more time.

• 1:53:00Speaker 05

  There were two clips on 11. So this is supposed to be...

• 1:53:04Danny Jones?

  Into the mic, into the mic, oh.

• 1:53:04Speaker 05

  No, just let it play at normal speed. This is supposed to be the Earth, but that's fine. This is supposed to be the Earth floating in space. This is the outtake. That's why it said, "Do not show to the public." There's Buzz Aldrin removing part of the effect in front of the window. That's a work light. The camera has been at the back of the spacecraft the entire time. The iris is opened and you can see the real location and the very bright Earth out the window. They just faked being halfway to the moon. My critics agree. That is them faking being halfway to the moon. Two NBC news directors agree. That is them faking being halfway to the moon. And they were told by the federal government, if they broadcast it, they would have their

• 1:53:49Speaker 05

  license pulled. So go to sibrel.com. All of these clips can be seen there for free. This is what convinced me. I gave NASA the benefit of the doubt for as long as possible. And when I saw this, they are faking halfway to the moon. So if you could really go to the moon, why would you be faking any of it? And if you're faking being halfway to the moon, it's because you can't go halfway to the moon. And what a surprise, 56 years later, they still cannot leave Earth orbit. Only mannequins can. And we'll go on to why next, which is the Van Allen Radiation Belt.

• 1:54:27Danny Jones?

  All right, hold on. Let's put a pause there. So Charlie. On your trip on Apollo 16, did you guys ever turn around and, and take film or footage or any photos of the moon? Or I'm sorry, of the earth when you were about halfway?

• 1:54:43Speaker 06

  I'm sure that we did. I don't remember specifically, but we were.

• 1:54:48Danny Jones?

  If you were, if you were to take a video or a film of the earth on your way to the moon, how would you do it?

• 1:54:57Speaker 06

  Well, you turn a window to the earth and, and the, there was a, I had a window right up here, which was a triangle. I had a window right over here. And in zero gravity, you had to hold a camera up to the window, towards the window.

• 1:55:15Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:55:16Speaker 06

  And of the object you had out there. So you could do it from any window. It, it just depends on how you oriented the spacecraft.

• 1:55:26Danny Jones?

  So, okay, so you would be able to orient the spacecraft while you're traveling to the moon to line up a window with the earth?

• 1:55:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:55:33Danny Jones?

  Okay. And so roughly how big is, how big is that spacecraft? How big is the interior?

• 1:55:39Speaker 06

  Less than the, if I'm in my couch, I can reach out and touch the, the, in my suit. And I could reach out and touch the side of the spacecraft.

• 1:55:51Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:55:52Speaker 06

  John Young on liftoff, it was Mattingly. I could, he was touching my shoulder. And on the other side, he was touching John's shoulder. And John was reaching out and touching the side of the spacecraft.

• 1:56:05Speaker 05

  But the command module.

• 1:56:07Speaker 06

  The command module.

• 1:56:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, the command and service module were coupled together. So there was actually more depth than that.

• 1:56:13Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:56:13Speaker 06

  No, no, not in the spacecraft. It wasn't. They were, they were, the service module was hooked to the, the command module was sat on top of the service module. And you, and we received a lot of stuff from the service module. But the, the command module was a separate entity and, and didn't have a connection. There were electrical connections and service connections, but there weren't any.

• 1:56:43Speaker 06

  Pathway.

• 1:56:44Danny Jones?

  You couldn't go there.

• 1:56:45Speaker 06

  You couldn't go there.

• 1:56:46Danny Jones?

  Got it. Okay. And so you're saying it was roughly about maybe the side, the length of this table, maybe a little bigger?

• 1:56:51Speaker 06

  Hmm. Probably this table probably wider than Apollo spacecraft was.

• 1:56:57Danny Jones?

  Okay. And so, so. Depth wise, about the table. So when you were, let's just say hypothetically, you're on your way to the moon on Apollo 16, you look back, you want to take a shot of the earth at halfway, right? You're halfway to the moon. How would you position the camera inside the spacecraft to shoot the earth?

• 1:57:16Speaker 06

  First of all, you have to get a window looking at the earth.

• 1:57:19Danny Jones?

  Right. Right.

• 1:57:20Speaker 06

  And you could get the window, you face the earth. It was a, there was a triangular window here and a window here for me.

• 1:57:27Danny Jones?

  How, what's, what, what was the shape of the other window for you?

• 1:57:30Speaker 06

  I think it was a sort of a triangular shape.

• 1:57:33Danny Jones?

  Triangular shape. Okay.

• 1:57:35Speaker 06

  Anyway, you could get up there with a camera and just look out and if, if the spacecraft was not rotating, the held position, then you could just reach out and just start taking pictures. With your Hasselblad or the 16 millimeter camera we had. We didn't waste film though.

• 1:57:52Danny Jones?

  And you would put it basically right smack dab up to the window?

• 1:57:56Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:57:56Danny Jones?

  No?

• 1:57:57Speaker 06

  Sometimes you would.

• 1:57:58Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:57:59Speaker 06

  Okay. Depends on, uh, what you were trying to, what you were trying to look at. If the earth was out there and you wanted to get right closer, you could see the whole of the earth. You would. You could get back and you could see, you could still see the earth out there, but it was like you were looking through a four foot of air in a spacecraft. So you'd want to get up right next to it to get a good picture.

• 1:58:26Danny Jones?

  The window. Right. And how fast was, was the craft moving at that point halfway?

• 1:58:29Speaker 06

  It varied. It, uh.

• 1:58:32Danny Jones?

  Roughly.

• 1:58:34Speaker 06

  Well, it took seventy-two hours to get to the moon. It's two-hundred-something thousand miles. So on average, it, it, uh, three thousand miles an hour.

• 1:58:42Danny Jones?

  Three thousand miles an hour, okay. Okay, so, um, this footage is, as Bart described from Apollo eleven, and they have the camera. Steve, do you have, you have like a rendering of the, of the spacecraft? Uh, yeah, give me a second. So we downloaded a 3D render of the interior of the spacecraft, and I want to see if it's accurate, first of all.

• 1:59:09Danny Jones?

  This is it.

• 1:59:12Danny Jones?

  So this was created, uh, by the Smithsonian.

• 1:59:18Danny Jones?

  And it's supposed to be a perfect 3D render. Does that look, does that look right?

• 1:59:25Speaker 06

  Uh, that's, that's the hatch right there. Yeah, that would be the hatch. And there was this, uh, a window, and then on the right side, I had a window. Well, on this side, wait, wait a minute, I'm...

• 1:59:40Speaker 06

  I was, I would be on the other side.

• 1:59:42Danny Jones?

  So he was on the left side.

• 1:59:44Speaker 05

  Which Apollo mission is this, uh, rendering of?

• 1:59:46Danny Jones?

  Do they have different ones for every Apollo?

• 1:59:48Speaker 06

  No, it's all the same.

• 1:59:49Danny Jones?

  They're all the same?

• 1:59:50Speaker 05

  Which is the number one window?

• 1:59:52Danny Jones?

  Specifically Apollo eleven. This is specifically Apollo eleven. Okay, so this would have been the same craft they were shooting from in that video that you provided. Okay, so, um, which window, Bart, were they filming from?

• 2:00:05Speaker 05

  They referred to it as the number one window, so, and it appeared to be circular on camera. And like I said, another cinematographer thinks they put a device over the window with a photograph of the earth.

• 2:00:20Danny Jones?

  I don't see any circle windows at all in this.

• 2:00:23Speaker 05

  Was there a circular window, uh, in there in general?

• 2:00:26Danny Jones?

  That's kind of like a square, like a rounded square.

• 2:00:29Speaker 06

  And, uh, there, there might be a circular window in the hatch. I don't remember.

• 2:00:33Danny Jones?

  So the hatch is missing here. So maybe that's what they were filming out of, the hatch.

• 2:00:38Speaker 06

  Well, no, the, well, the hatch would be open and sometimes you could, if you got right up close, you could see the hatch being.

• 2:00:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think you're right. The circular window was on the hatch.

• 2:00:49Danny Jones?

  So find a, find a photo of the hatch for the lunar module and see if there was a-

• 2:00:53Speaker 06

  Not the lunar module, the command module.

• 2:00:55Danny Jones?

  The command module, I'm sorry.

• 2:00:57Speaker 05

  Well, we already have them claiming that the camera's up against the window and in fact, it's at the back of the spacecraft.

• 2:01:03Danny Jones?

  Okay, so there's the hatch. It is a circle. It's a circle window.

• 2:01:06Speaker 05

  Breaking down. We, I mean, you look at it where he says he's 130,000 miles out and the other, the second half of it where they start fiddling with their hands in front of the window, it's the same shot. They claim it's 130,000 miles out and then the moment later, you see it's the window being made up to look like the earth floating in space. Go back a couple of seconds.

• 2:01:31Danny Jones?

  So you, okay, so pause it right there. Pause it right there. So Charlie, uh, move the guy out of the way of the window so we can still see the interior of the spacecraft.

• 2:01:42Danny Jones?

  So that window straight ahead, that's got like light glaring through it.

• 2:01:45Speaker 05

  It's circular. It looks circular.

• 2:01:46Danny Jones?

  That's circular, right? So that would be the hatch, right?

• 2:01:49Speaker 06

  That's the hatch.

• 2:01:49Danny Jones?

  That's the hatch. Okay. So the camera is basically as far back as it can possibly be inside the command module.

• 2:01:55Speaker 06

  That's, and the lower equipment bay it would be.

• 2:01:57Danny Jones?

  The lower equipment bay. Okay, cool. Now play it so we can get a better idea of there, the cameras are staying there and they're adjusting the exposure.

• 2:02:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, right there.

• 2:02:08Danny Jones?

  So there you can see.

• 2:02:09Speaker 05

  So they, a moment ago, they claimed that was 130,000 miles out, the earth floating in space, but it's not the earth floating in space. It's the window being made to look like the earth floating in space. So they're faking being halfway to the moon. So why would they fake being halfway to the moon if they really went?

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• 2:03:28Speaker 12

  Halfway to the moon.

• 2:03:29Danny Jones?

  Well, you don't even have to go that far, okay? Let's say, why are they shooting it from so far back? Why wouldn't they put the camera up to the window?

• 2:03:40Speaker 06

  We did at times, but sometimes you just want to look at the inside and what the guy's doing.

• 2:03:46Danny Jones?

  But, right, but if you go back...

• 2:03:48Speaker 06

  So you get on the other side of the spacecraft.

• 2:03:49Danny Jones?

  Understood, but if you go back, they're showing it with the entire interior blacked out, Steve, if you rewind it.

• 2:03:56Speaker 12

  Yeah, that's so that he can get exposure of the Earth.

• 2:03:59Danny Jones?

  Rewind it.

• 2:04:00Speaker 06

  If you got the outside, if you got the windows not open, but uncovered, you're gonna get light reflected from the Earth and light from the sun into the spacecraft.

• 2:04:11Danny Jones?

  Right, so go to the beginning, go forward a little bit more so it just shows you. So, see, they're filming it.

• 2:04:18Speaker 05

  They claimed that was the Earth floating in space.

• 2:04:20Danny Jones?

  It looks like they're trying... Do you understand why Bart thinks they're trying to pull some sort of camera trick? They're trying to... It looks like, right now, if you paused it right here, and you showed that to me, or any other dumb-dumb like me, you would think that the black is just space, right? And that's just the Earth floating in space. That's what it looks like to me.

• 2:04:41Speaker 12

  So hit play.

• 2:04:45Danny Jones?

  Now, and he's saying while they're filming it, that they're 130,000 miles out.

• 2:04:49Speaker 12

  Which is not true.

• 2:04:53Danny Jones?

  So there's the earth. So it's like, wow, look how small the earth is way floating away in outer space. And it's pretty incredible. And then this is the same, you know, this is not cut, this is same, same, same footage. And the camera's sort of wobbling, there's something weird in the top left corner, maybe a light.

• 2:05:15Danny Jones?

  It's a work light that they diffused, so it wouldn't throw light on the spacecraft walls. Now it's like, now there's something moving in between the camera lens and the window. Yep. So it's not space, it's just the interior of the spacecraft. That's right. It's the window of the spacecraft being made to look like the earth floating in space. Right. So if, if they are trying to pull a camera trick here, Bart, now look, you see the window's totally blown out.

• 2:05:42Speaker 06

  That's what it would look like.

• 2:05:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:05:44Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 2:05:44Danny Jones?

  They had the iris closed during the other one.

• 2:05:47Speaker 06

  The hatch, the head, that's the hatch, the hatch window.

• 2:05:51Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:05:52Speaker 06

  And then there's another triangular window.

• 2:05:54Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:05:55Speaker 06

  And there was one on my side, there was another, I forgot exactly what the space was, but there was windows right here and I could look out that window.

• 2:06:04Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:06:05Speaker 06

  And there was a, on the other side, there was a docking window, you looked out when you had to dock.

• 2:06:12Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:06:13Speaker 06

  And it was a try, I forgot exactly the shape, maybe a long rectangle or something like that. And then there was a round hatch window. And then there was a, a window on the left, I could look out my, I was on the right side and I could look out a window, it was right there. And John Young had a window on the other side, and there was a hatch window above us, and it was two windows up in, beyond the, uh, uh, lower equipment bay.

• 2:06:42Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. So, so Steve, go back, go back to where it's exposed for the interior?

• 2:06:47Danny Jones?

  So right there, that's the hatch window.

• 2:06:49Speaker 06

  Yeah, the round one.

• 2:06:50Danny Jones?

  Is that how bright? Okay, move the hand. Okay, i- is that? How, how, would it be that bright?

• 2:06:58Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:06:59Danny Jones?

  A hundred and thirty thousand miles away, if that window was facing the earth? At a hundred and thirty thousand miles out, is that how bright it would be?

• 2:07:05Speaker 06

  It's facing more to the sun than the earth.

• 2:07:08Danny Jones?

  Well, the video's claiming, according to the video, Neil is saying that that's the earth.

• 2:07:14Speaker 06

  That wouldn't be the earth, wouldn't?

• 2:07:15Danny Jones?

  That would not be the earth.

• 2:07:16Speaker 06

  That picture's not the earth.

• 2:07:17Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:07:18Speaker 05

  Well, it is the earth, that's the reflection off of the earth.

• 2:07:20Danny Jones?

  That's.

• 2:07:21Speaker 05

  That's earth shining.

• 2:07:21Danny Jones?

  Well, this is, this is kind of incredible, because he's saying it's not the earth.

• 2:07:26Speaker 05

  Well, it is.

• 2:07:27Danny Jones?

  And clearly.

• 2:07:27Speaker 05

  They just faked being halfway to the moon.

• 2:07:29Danny Jones?

  Well, the video is saying.

• 2:07:30Speaker 05

  Because they're in earth orbit, that's the earth out the window, it's filling the entire window.

• 2:07:34Danny Jones?

  Right, but listen, Charlie just said at a hundred and thirty thousand miles out, that is not what it would look like, okay? This video clearly is Neil Armstrong saying they're a hundred and thirty thousand miles out.

• 2:07:46Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, I understand. It's a fake shot.

• 2:07:49Danny Jones?

  So, that's why Bart believes that there's, there's something weird going on. So, if they were in earth orbit, wouldn't you see the earth moving by super fast? Like clouds moving by, you would see land moving, there would be fly, if you look at footage from.

• 2:08:05Speaker 05

  That's why David Percy, a cinematographer, award-winning BBC cinematographer, said they took a photograph from an unmanned satellite, and they had like a positive, or kind of like an x-ray, but a color print that was translucent, and they put it over the window. That's what they were removing when you see the yellow circle around the window. They're removing the photograph.

• 2:08:32Danny Jones?

  So it's a photograph.

• 2:08:33Speaker 05

  That's being backlit by earth shine.

• 2:08:35Danny Jones?

  Of the earth with a terminator line, they're shoving it in the window.

• 2:08:38Speaker 05

  They put a little crescent piece of material into the window.

• 2:08:41Danny Jones?

  I see what you're saying.

• 2:08:41Speaker 05

  To fake the terminator line dividing night and day.

• 2:08:44Speaker 06

  So, I don't understand a part of this conversation.

• 2:08:47Danny Jones?

  So, so this video that we're watching right now, that you just watched, this is a video of Apollo 11, and Neil says in the beginning of the video, that they are a hundred and thirty, a hundred and thirty thousand miles away from the moon. So he said, he said that, he just said they're halfway.

• 2:09:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:09:05Danny Jones?

  And you just said, there's no way they're halfway.

• 2:09:09Speaker 06

  I didn't say that.

• 2:09:10Danny Jones?

  Judging by the, looking at how bright that window is, you said if that's the earth, it wouldn't be that bright.

• 2:09:16Speaker 06

  I didn't say that. I said that could be the sun shining then.

• 2:09:19Danny Jones?

  No, no, but I'm saying if that was, if that window was facing the earth at 130,000 miles, you said it wouldn't be that bright if that was facing the earth.

• 2:09:28Speaker 06

  You would see the earth. You wouldn't see the, this is the sun shining in.

• 2:09:33Danny Jones?

  Okay, but, okay hypothetically, if that window was facing the earth at 130,000 miles, you said it wouldn't be that bright a minute ago, right?

• 2:09:44Speaker 06

  Uh, the earth was never that bright.

• 2:09:47Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:09:47Speaker 06

  Okay, you look out the window and you, you'd look out the window and you'd see the earth. Just hung up there.

• 2:09:53Danny Jones?

  Right, it wouldn't be blasting through the window like that.

• 2:09:55Speaker 05

  What about from earth orbit? Would it be that bright from earth orbit?

• 2:09:58Speaker 06

  Uh, depends on where you are.

• 2:10:00Speaker 05

  So it might be that bright from earth orbit.

• 2:10:02Danny Jones?

  Okay, okay, interesting.

• 2:10:04Speaker 06

  Um, I don't understand the purpose of this discussion.

• 2:10:07Speaker 05

  Well, they're faking being halfway to the moon.

• 2:10:09Danny Jones?

  It's because he thinks this is a fake shot. He thinks, he thinks that the, he thinks that this craft right here is in low earth orbit and they're trying to fake it by moving the camera back and exposing for the window to make it look like earth is really far away and the surrounding inner spacecraft that's underexposed is just space. He thinks they're trying to make some sort of a camera trick to fake that they're halfway to the moon when they're really in low earth orbit. That's what Bart's claim is.

• 2:10:39Speaker 06

  When you're in low earth orbit, you look out and you've, and your windows are facing at the earth, you look down and you just see nothing but earth.

• 2:10:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:10:47Speaker 06

  And you're whizzing by.

• 2:10:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:10:49Speaker 06

  You see that you can go over Australia, you can go over the Pacific, you look, it depends on where you are and you're in a low earth orbit, you look out the window.

• 2:10:57Danny Jones?

  It might, it might look something like that, filling the windows with light.

• 2:11:01Speaker 06

  You're no, it would not.

• 2:11:03Danny Jones?

  Okay, well, that camera's exposed.

• 2:11:04Speaker 06

  Only if the windows are pointed towards the sun.

• 2:11:07Danny Jones?

  Right, okay, I see.

• 2:11:08Speaker 05

  Well, a moment ago, you said it might look like that from Earth shine in Earth orbit.

• 2:11:12Danny Jones?

  It depends on the exposure of the camera.

• 2:11:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:11:14Danny Jones?

  The earth shine, yeah, yeah. Okay, Steve, what were you gonna say?

• 2:11:16Speaker 12

  It looks like this, it's not the, it looks like, so, because I'm also a cinematographer, and I would say that that window, that, that's probably the color of the window and the sun is, can you see this mouse? Yeah, the sun is probably somewhere over here poking through. You can see these rays shooting in right there. Um, it's kind of hard to tell because he's got light bounce on his shoulder and he's got light bounce on this elbow. It's likely hitting some part inside of the spacecraft and bouncing back and it's filling in his face over there. It's lightly kissing the, the shoulders here. But you can always tell sunlight because you can just look for the brightest thing. And that would be that ray shooting through. So it's probably just veiling the glass.

• 2:11:59Speaker 12

  And the glass is, you can see, there's color right there.

• 2:12:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:05Speaker 12

  And you can see there's a similar color right here. So this one's getting the brunt of it.

• 2:12:09Danny Jones?

  It's kind of a blue color, too.

• 2:12:09Speaker 12

  It is a blue. I think it's a tint. And what you're seeing there is even when you back up over here, this is just a boka ball. A boka ball showing whatever the, the lens is seeing. And this texture is probably the cabling that you see later on. Or it could just be like imperfections in the glass. Um, but that's.

• 2:12:30Speaker 06

  That, that looks like the earth to me.

• 2:12:32Danny Jones?

  That looks like the earth to me, too.

• 2:12:33Speaker 12

  But it's out of focus.

• 2:12:34Speaker 05

  Obviously, it's not. It's the window.

• 2:12:36Danny Jones?

  And it's got a perfect Terminator line, too.

• 2:12:38Speaker 05

  Go to the part where they're fiddling with it in front of the window. Go back another 15 seconds and hit play.

• 2:12:44Speaker 12

  It's, it's mis, misformed because it's, uh.

• 2:12:49Danny Jones?

  So Steve, you don't think they're trying to film the earth here?

• 2:12:51Speaker 12

  I don't think so.

• 2:12:52Speaker 05

  Well, hit play.

• 2:12:53Speaker 12

  They're looking at the window.

• 2:12:55Danny Jones?

  They're definitely trying to film the earth.

• 2:12:56Speaker 05

  That's where they claim it's 130,000 miles out. It's a duplicate of this. This is later on in the tape.

• 2:13:02Danny Jones?

  It's very confusing.

• 2:13:03Speaker 05

  That's supposed to be halfway to the moon. And now you see them breaking down the effect, removing the transparency of the photograph of the earth in front of the window. The camera was never up against the glass. It was at the back of the spacecraft. They closed the iris down so that the walls became black. And here they are, removing part of the effect in front of the window.

• 2:13:24Danny Jones?

  All right.

• 2:13:24Speaker 05

  This is what convinced me and to NBC News Director and an award-winning cinematographer and my critics agree it is Apollo 11 faking being halfway to the moon.

• 2:13:36Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:13:36Speaker 05

  So why would they fake being halfway to the moon if they really went to the moon? And if they're faking being halfway, it's because they cannot go halfway.

• 2:13:45Danny Jones?

  Right, understood.

• 2:13:46Speaker 05

  They cannot leave Earth orbit and will go into Y, which is the radiation belt that surrounds the earth.

• 2:13:51Danny Jones?

  Which we're gonna do. We're two hours in, we have an hour left, uh, but coffee is here and I need to go to the bathroom. So we're gonna take a quick break, coffee break, bathroom break, and we'll come back, talk about the radiation belts. Be right back. Okay, now, we're good, we're back. We're talking about the radiation belts, the Van Allen belts. What is your position on the Van Allen radiation belts?

• 2:14:10Speaker 05

  Well, my position is what Von Braun's original findings were, which is that it's 250 times a lethal dose. We have a quote from him in print that he says that if you do the math. And if you first show slide D12.

• 2:14:26Danny Jones?

  Okay, before you get to D12, for people that don't know, that are listening to Bart from the first time.

• 2:14:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, this is an image of the belt.

• 2:14:31Danny Jones?

  So, yeah, the Van Allen radiation belts are basically large toroidal donut-shaped pockets of radiation that exist about, what is it, 1,000 miles out from the earth?

• 2:14:43Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm, and extend about 30,000 miles.

• 2:14:45Danny Jones?

  Extend about 30,000 miles. And every single space shuttle launch, uh, basically every astronaut and every, uh, space shuttle launch, every moonwalk that's ever, or, I'm sorry, not moonwalk, spacewalk that's ever been done, has been done below that in low Earth orbit. The only astronauts, the only manned mission that's ever been outside of the Van Allen radiation belts is the Apollo missions. Is that correct?

• 2:15:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, gone through them.

• 2:15:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:12Speaker 05

  Look at D12, you can show the audience what they look like and how every manned space mission, Mercury, Gemini, Skylab, the space shuttle is well below it. And this field of radiation starts at 1,000 miles and extends about 30,000 miles. If you go to D13, this is a press release from the Apollo mission that was given to the press. They launched from Florida to be near the equator and they go right out through the middle. You see that right at the equator? They go through the Van Allen radiation belt. Now, if the

• 2:15:50Speaker 05

  spacecraft, like General said, is going 3,000 miles an hour and they're 30,000 miles thick, that would be 10 hours in the radiation to the moon and 10 hours back. I believe maybe the spacecraft was going a little bit faster, but in any case, it was at least 2 hours in the radiation to the moon, up to 10 hours, and another 2 to 10 hours back. Now, the Orion mission sent up Geiger counters into the radiation belts in 2014, unmanned, and

• 2:16:30Speaker 05

  they registered the radiation. I called NASA, I said, I'm a journalist, this is a non-military, taxpayer-funded, scientific mission. Can I please have the Geiger counter readings? They told me that was classified. They weren't able to tell me. Now, when NASA sent probes to the sun to find out the temperature of the sun, the temperature wasn't classified. And when they sent probes to Jupiter to measure the amount of helium in Jupiter's atmosphere, the amount wasn't classified. So why would the amount of radiation inside the radiation belts and a spacecraft intending to one day send people to the moon, why would that radiation measurement be a classified secret?

• 2:17:14Danny Jones?

  Charlie, do you know why that would be classified?

• 2:17:15Speaker 05

  I didn't realize it was.

• 2:17:17Danny Jones?

  So I would imagine that if it was classified, we would classify it because we wouldn't want the Soviets or the Chinese to know the actual level of radiation.

• 2:17:25Speaker 05

  What is the point of this discussion?

• 2:17:28Danny Jones?

  The point that we're discussing now is Bart's position that the Van Allen radiation belts are too dangerous for human beings to pass through and survive.

• 2:17:42Danny Jones?

  And he's building his case to why that is right now.

• 2:17:47Speaker 06

  Well, you have to accelerate to 25,000 miles an hour to get out of Earth orbit.

• 2:17:53Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:17:54Speaker 05

  I thought you said it was 3,000 miles an hour.

• 2:17:56Danny Jones?

  Let him talk. He said he was at 3,000 when they were halfway.

• 2:18:00Danny Jones?

  Sorry.

• 2:18:01Speaker 06

  Earth's slowing you down. Okay, so the total distance of the moon is about 3,000 miles an hour. Seven times 70, that's 210,000 miles. Okay.

• 2:18:13Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:18:14Speaker 06

  So when you go through the Van Allen belts, you're going so fast, it's just you're through.

• 2:18:20Danny Jones?

  How fast were you traveling when you guys were going through the Van Allen belts?

• 2:18:23Speaker 06

  Uh, escape velocity is about.

• 2:18:28Speaker 06

  Let's see, I don't remember exactly 36,000 feet per second or something like that.

• 2:18:32Speaker 05

  NASA told me it was 17,000 miles an hour.

• 2:18:35Speaker 06

  No, that's Earth orbit.

• 2:18:36Danny Jones?

  That's Earth orbit?

• 2:18:37Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:18:38Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:18:38Speaker 06

  Then you have to escape Earth orbit, accelerate. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was 20, it was over 20,000 miles an hour. To get out of Earth orbit. And so the. S4B, the third stage of the Saturn rocket, you stayed attached to, and that engine lit and pushed you out of Earth orbit. On a trajectory to the moon through the Van Allen belts. Then that, after that, you shut. You separated, you turned around and retrieved the lunar module from the. Third stage. It was riding underneath the command module and service module.

• 2:19:20Speaker 06

  So you separated and you turned around and you came back in and you docked. And then you, when you got all the electrical connections made, you flipped the switch and it. Released all the bolts and then you could back it out from the. The third, third stage of the Saturn rocket.

• 2:19:39Danny Jones?

  Okay. When you guys were traveling through the Van Allen belts, did you, were you guys paying close attention to. Like where in the Van Allen belts you were and also before you, before you, like when you were preparing, you guys did an unbelievably amount, an unbelievable amount of prep. And training for this, right? What were the, for the whole mission, right? What were the conversations like during training with anybody, including Von Braun?

• 2:20:07Danny Jones?

  About astronaut's safety when it comes to radiation and the Van Allen belts. What were those conversations like?

• 2:20:15Speaker 06

  It wasn't very much conversation about it. It wasn't any danger. You're going through so fast, you're just, you're exposed to so much radiation, but it's just a boom, you're through, you know, and the belts are high radiation, but they aren't very thick. So you just go right straight through them and you don't get much radiation. I don't remember our dosimeters. We had dosimeters, several of them on our body and some in a spacecraft. I don't remember.

• 2:20:47Danny Jones?

  And that measures the level of radiation?

• 2:20:48Speaker 06

  That we're receiving, you know?

• 2:20:50Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:20:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, according to NASA, the radiation belts are 30,000 miles thick.

• 2:20:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:20:55Speaker 05

  And if you were going 20,000 miles an hour, that would be an hour and a half in the radiation to the moon.

• 2:21:01Danny Jones?

  Would be an hour and a half, it'd be a little over.

• 2:21:02Speaker 05

  Well, 30, 30,000 miles would be, if it's 30,000 miles thick and you're going 20,000 miles an hour.

• 2:21:09Danny Jones?

  You said 25.

• 2:21:10Speaker 05

  Well, he said 20.

• 2:21:11Speaker 06

  No.

• 2:21:12Speaker 05

  Well.

• 2:21:14Speaker 06

  You start out at 25,000 miles an hour, but you slow down. Earth's gravity slows you down.

• 2:21:18Danny Jones?

  At the time you're traveling through the Van Allen belts, through the outer part, the thick part of the Van Allen belts, how fast would you be going?

• 2:21:25Speaker 06

  I don't remember exactly.

• 2:21:27Danny Jones?

  Over 20?

• 2:21:27Speaker 06

  Yeah, over 20.

• 2:21:28Danny Jones?

  Over 20,000.

• 2:21:29Speaker 05

  Well, then that would put you to the moon.

• 2:21:30Danny Jones?

  So you'd be in there for an hour, roughly. You'd be in the Van Allen belts for an hour.

• 2:21:34Speaker 06

  How thick are they? I don't remember how thick they are.

• 2:21:36Danny Jones?

  Well, according to that math would suggest that that's about an hour in there, right? Maybe a little bit more.

• 2:21:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, about an hour and a half to the moon, hour and a half back at 20,000 miles an hour, but then there's a contradiction. If you're going 20,000 miles an hour with inertia, you'd be at the moon in a little over 10 hours rather than three days.

• 2:21:53Danny Jones?

  But they slowed down, right? Don't they slow down?

• 2:21:56Speaker 05

  Allegedly, once they got to the moon, obviously they would have to slow down to land on the moon. Now.

• 2:22:01Speaker 06

  May I say something?

• 2:22:02Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes.

• 2:22:03Speaker 06

  Okay, so you leave Earth orbit, you're in Earth orbit. You got to accelerate to leave Earth orbit.

• 2:22:10Danny Jones?

  Correct.

• 2:22:11Speaker 06

  I don't remember exactly the figure, but you accelerate to Earth orbit. Then the Earth starts slowing you down. Okay.

• 2:22:19Danny Jones?

  At what point does it start slowing you down exactly?

• 2:22:21Speaker 06

  As soon as you shut the engine off.

• 2:22:23Danny Jones?

  Okay, got it.

• 2:22:23Speaker 06

  But you're at beyond that, you're, you had enough velocity to get out of Earth orbit and go straight to the moon, or, or you got shot out in front. It's like being a shotgun shooter.

• 2:22:36Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:22:36Speaker 06

  Here's your, you're aiming this way, but here's the target. By the time you get there, you're in orbit. I mean, you get there so you can get into orbit.

• 2:22:48Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:22:49Speaker 06

  Uh, and, uh, I've lost my train of thought now, but what, what, so that it was never a problem with us about being in the Van Allen belts. You go through so fast, you don't get that much radiation.

• 2:23:03Danny Jones?

  So you guys never had a conversation about what trajectory to take through the Van Allen belts? Because they can be thinner at the top and they're wider at the, at like the equator, right? So you guys never like decided we gotta go through it at this angle or that angle?

• 2:23:17Speaker 06

  We never, the crew had no say.

• 2:23:20Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 2:23:20Speaker 06

  Mission control made your trajectory.

• 2:23:23Danny Jones?

  And you weren't aware of it at all either?

• 2:23:25Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. We, we knew when we were going through the Van Allen belts.

• 2:23:28Danny Jones?

  Oh, you did know when you were going through the Van Allen belts? Okay.

• 2:23:31Speaker 06

  And I think that, I don't remember exactly, but we had decimeters in the spacecraft and they must've read something, but I don't remember the, the details.

• 2:23:41Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:23:41Speaker 05

  We have clip 14 of Kelly Smith of the Orion project, which they said the radiation readings were classified. Here's a video of a new generation of NASA astronauts. We saw one saying they intentionally destroyed a technology for the first time in world history. And here we have the young guy in his twenties saying that the belts are dangerous radiation and the technology to go through them has not been invented yet.

• 2:24:09Danny Jones?

  And this is from 2004, this video he's about to play is from 2014 during the buildup to the Orion missions, right?

• 2:24:18Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm. D14.

• 2:24:23Speaker 16

  We are headed 3,600 miles above Earth. Fifteen times higher from the planet than the International Space Station.

• 2:24:35Speaker 16

  As we get further away from Earth, we'll pass through the Van Allen Belt, an area of dangerous radiation.

• 2:24:45Speaker 16

  Naturally, we have to pass through this danger zone twice. Once up and once back. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space.

• 2:25:04Speaker 05

  Okay, so he said, "We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space." So the radiation protection is a challenge that has yet to be resolved. We must solve these challenges in the future before we send people through this region of space. So the challenges of the radiation have not been resolved, and they must do it before they send people through this region of space. So that right there... So we never went to the moon?

• 2:25:33Danny Jones?

  What do you... no, no. What do you make of that, though? What do you make of this astronaut in 2014 saying that "We have to solve the challenges of radiation before we send people to the Van Allen Belt"? What is your reaction to that?

• 2:25:50Speaker 05

  Through the Van Allen Belt? Is that what he's saying?

• 2:25:52Danny Jones?

  Does he say "through"?

• 2:25:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:25:54Danny Jones?

  No, he said "into" this region. I believe he said...

• 2:25:56Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, I wouldn't want to orbit it. He said "through" this region of space.

• 2:26:01Danny Jones?

  Can you play it again? Can you say... play exactly what he says again? Did he say "through"?

• 2:26:04Speaker 05

  Through.

• 2:26:05Speaker 16

  "We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space."

• 2:26:10Danny Jones?

  "Through" this region of space, is what he said.

• 2:26:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, on to the moon. The project is Orion, which intends to send people to the moon. Through this region of space.

• 2:26:18Danny Jones?

  Was Orion... was that the objective of Orion? To send people to the moon?

• 2:26:22Speaker 05

  That's right, it was the precursor to Armatus. So it's all about, quote, "returning to the moon."

• 2:26:27Danny Jones?

  Google, what was the objective of the Orion missions?

• 2:26:32Danny Jones?

  The objective of NASA's Orion mission was to transport human crews on deep space missions, starting with a return, starting with a return to the moon under the Artemis program and eventually extending to Mars. Orion is designed to provide long-duration crew support, protect astronauts from deep space radiation, and handle high-speed re-entry into Earth's atmosphere. Okay.

• 2:26:53Speaker 12

  Mars makes more sense because you're gonna be out there for way longer.

• 2:26:56Speaker 05

  Well, look at article, well, he's talking about just through this region of space, which is the Van Allen Radiation Belt.

• 2:27:03Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:27:03Speaker 05

  We must solve the radiation challenges, which means they're not solved. And then he says, before we send people through this region of space. So if they haven't been resolved yet, then the Apollo astronauts didn't go through them.

• 2:27:16Danny Jones?

  Well.

• 2:27:16Speaker 05

  It says so right there in his own mouth.

• 2:27:18Danny Jones?

  It's definitely, I'm not saying that the astronauts never went to the moon. I'm not, I'm in the middle here. But it is very weird that a guy in 2014 would say, we have to solve the problem of the Van Allen Belt's radiation before we go through. It's, it's odd, right?

• 2:27:34Speaker 06

  Sounds like to me it's odd, but we did it.

• 2:27:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:27:37Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 2:27:38Speaker 05

  Well, that's, that's why I'm saying you did not.

• 2:27:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:27:41Speaker 05

  Obviously.

• 2:27:41Speaker 06

  Where did 200 pounds of moon rocks come from?

• 2:27:45Speaker 05

  I just showed you, Von Braun picked them up from Antarctica. There's a picture of that on the web, picking up lunar meteorites before he went to the moon for the first time. Seems like a weird use of his time. Moon rocks have proven to be fake. And according to a contractor that I spoke to at length, he says NASA has ceramics labs which can mimic moon rocks. Now, go to link 15, as we stay on the radiation. This is an article from Reuters that says, "Radiation prevents travel to the moon." That's slide number 15.

• 2:28:19Speaker 06

  Well, I walked on the moon. I don't know of anybody else, but I was John Young.

• 2:28:24Speaker 05

  You keep saying that. We know that. We've been saying it for 56 years and you're not gonna admit your guilt. Nobody who was, you know, brought to trial for one crime ever admitted their guilt either.

• 2:28:35Danny Jones?

  We're going through each piece of evidence and trying to rationally analyze what it means and let the audience decide. And a lot of this, I realize, you haven't even seen yet. Like, obviously, you hadn't seen that video of that guy in 2014 saying, "We have to solve these issues." But it's weird. And that's the case he's making. This is, some of these videos that we're playing are some of the reasons that people are questioning it. Go ahead, play it.

• 2:28:59Speaker 06

  Do you know how fast you're going when you leave Earth orbit?

• 2:29:03Danny Jones?

  How fast?

• 2:29:04Speaker 06

  Guess.

• 2:29:06Speaker 05

  Well, you said 3,000 miles, you said 20,000 miles.

• 2:29:10Danny Jones?

  No, he didn't. He said, no, Bart, Bart, he did not. He said that they were going 25, I think 25 or something like that, or 30 when they were leaving Earth orbit and then they slowed down and there's different speeds along the pathway, along the journey.

• 2:29:22Speaker 05

  Okay, well, let's read this article heading and what's highlighted.

• 2:29:25Speaker 06

  You leave Earth orbit, I think it was 25,000 miles an hour, you accelerate to 25,000 miles an hour, you leave Earth orbit, and then from there on, you start slowing down.

• 2:29:36Danny Jones?

  Right, okay.

• 2:29:38Speaker 06

  And then when you get to the moon, you accelerate because lunar gravity takes over and you accelerate, and so you're going too fast when you get there, whip you around and bring you home. So you put the engine in the front.

• 2:29:53Danny Jones?

  Hit the brakes, right.

• 2:29:53Speaker 06

  And you, and you point in the direction you've come from and you burn the engine six minutes or so to slow down to get into lunar orbit.

• 2:30:02Speaker 05

  Okay, so at 25,000 miles an hour, inside something 30,000 miles thick is over an hour.

• 2:30:08Speaker 06

  No, no, you're not going that fast when you get to the moon.

• 2:30:11Speaker 05

  Okay, but you said you went through the Van Allen radiation belt.

• 2:30:14Speaker 06

  At 25,000 miles an hour, but then you slow down.

• 2:30:17Speaker 05

  Okay, but that's not the issue. The issue is you were inside the belt, because they're 30,000 miles thick, for over an hour. An hour and 15 minutes going to the moon and an hour and 15 minutes coming back. Would anyone survive getting an X-ray for an hour and 15 minutes?

• 2:30:34Danny Jones?

  Charlie survived.

• 2:30:36Speaker 05

  Well, if, that's one of the reasons why he didn't. Read this article, "What's Keeping Us From Mars: Space Radiation Says Expert." You want to read that? Because you're blocking me. What does it say?

• 2:30:48Danny Jones?

  Let's see, I can't see because of the play thing.

• 2:30:50Speaker 05

  Go ahead, take it from the top and hit play.

• 2:30:52Danny Jones?

  It says, "Washington Reuters by Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor, Cosmic," okay. "Cosmic rays are so dangerous and so poorly understood that people are unlikely to get to Mars or even back to the moon until better ways are found to protect astronauts," expert said on Monday.

• 2:31:14Speaker 05

  So if the radiation is too severe to travel to the moon today with superior equipment, how did you go 50 years ago with inferior equipment?

• 2:31:25Speaker 05

  We did it. Well, we know that. You've been saying that for 56 years.

• 2:31:28Danny Jones?

  Do we know, what are you aware of?

• 2:31:30Speaker 05

  I'm still here.

• 2:31:31Danny Jones?

  What are you, which is proof you didn't go through the radiation. Charlie, what sort of?

• 2:31:35Speaker 05

  I went to the moon.

• 2:31:36Danny Jones?

  I understand.

• 2:31:38Speaker 05

  We picked up, we picked up moon rocks.

• 2:31:39Danny Jones?

  Was there any sort of special shielding or materials used on the exterior shell or the hull of the spacecraft to protect from radiation? Nothing.

• 2:31:48Speaker 05

  Not that I remember. D16 is a quote from Van Allen, who discovered the belts, about the magnitude of the radiation. Play D16. Here's, here's the guy who discovered the belts, they're named after him. And read what he says about the radiation.

• 2:32:09Danny Jones?

  Okay, this is from Dr. James Van Allen. He said this in 1959. Our measurements show, can you hear me Charlie? He said, "Our measurements show that the maximum radiation levels as of 1958 is equivalent to between 10 and 100."

• 2:32:27Speaker 05

  Rhenkins.

• 2:32:28Danny Jones?

  Rhenkins, per hour. Depending on the still undetermined proportions of protons and electrons. Since a human being exposed for two days to even 10 roten's would have only an even chance of survival. The radiation belts obviously present an obstacle to space flight.

• 2:32:48Speaker 05

  And then read the bottom part.

• 2:32:51Danny Jones?

  But two, this has two days. Exposed for two days to even 10 roten's. They were only in there for an hour, a little over an hour each way.

• 2:33:00Speaker 05

  Well, read the math underneath it.

• 2:33:02Danny Jones?

  So, okay. 10 to 100 roten's per hour averages to about, uh, 10 to 100 roten's per hour averages to 50 per hour. Okay. At the claimed speed of the Apollo craft, this, this is not James Van Allen saying this. This is somebody, who else, who's saying this?

• 2:33:20Speaker 05

  Well, this is the person who wrote the article.

• 2:33:22Danny Jones?

  Okay. So this person who wrote the article said that, um, at claimed, at the claimed speed of the Apollo craft, this would be two hours in the radiation to the moon and two hours in the radiation back from the moon. Or 200 roten's. Since 10 roten's over two days will kill you, which is .2 roten's per hour, the radiation belts are 250 times a lethal dose.

• 2:33:51Speaker 06

  So that's one reason.

• 2:33:52Danny Jones?

  Okay, where can we, this is on your website? Where can we find this quote?

• 2:33:55Speaker 06

  What's the purpose of this discussion?

• 2:33:58Danny Jones?

  This is saying, this is, Bart is claiming that James Van Allen himself said that the amount of radiation that you would get traveling through the belts would kill you. He said this in 1959.

• 2:34:13Speaker 06

  How fast would be?

• 2:34:16Danny Jones?

  He, he's saying.

• 2:34:17Speaker 06

  How fast is he say we're going?

• 2:34:19Danny Jones?

  It doesn't, it just says the amount of time. He's talking about the amount of time. He's saying two hours.

• 2:34:24Speaker 05

  Radiation is built based on strength and time of exposure.

• 2:34:27Danny Jones?

  So he's saying the Apollo astronauts.

• 2:34:29Speaker 06

  How thick are the belts?

• 2:34:30Danny Jones?

  Thirty thousand miles.

• 2:34:34Speaker 06

  The, the Van Allen belts are thirty thousand miles thick?

• 2:34:37Danny Jones?

  Yes. Google it. Let's Google it. How thick are the Van Allen radiation belts, Steve?

• 2:34:43Speaker 05

  It may be more than that. They keep claiming they discovered extra layers of it that actually add to the thickness.

• 2:34:51Speaker 06

  So I'm supposed to be dead?

• 2:34:53Danny Jones?

  Allegedly.

• 2:34:53Speaker 05

  If you went through the belt.

• 2:34:55Danny Jones?

  But, let's check his pulse.

• 2:34:56Speaker 06

  So we, so we didn't go through the Van Allen belt?

• 2:34:59Danny Jones?

  Let's see, okay.

• 2:34:59Speaker 05

  According to Kelly Smith, you did not.

• 2:35:01Danny Jones?

  This says.

• 2:35:02Speaker 05

  You must solve these challenges before you go through.

• 2:35:03Danny Jones?

  The thickness of the Van Allen belts varies. The inner belt is from, okay, don't tell me all this. Okay, this says, uh, the outer belt is for eight thousand to thirty seven thousand miles.

• 2:35:20Danny Jones?

  So they fluctuate, but at the maximum, thirty seven thousand miles thick.

• 2:35:26Danny Jones?

  So that means you guys would have had over two hours of, of exposure to the belts.

• 2:35:32Speaker 12

  Did James, uh, that the Van Allen belts, uh, did he say that the radiation belt would kill you?

• 2:35:37Danny Jones?

  Well, this is Google AI. It's gonna be biased.

• 2:35:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, how does it know Lincoln was the sixteenth president? It was programmed to say that.

• 2:35:44Danny Jones?

  Right. It's reading, it's reading from other articles.

• 2:35:46Speaker 05

  Now, now the next issue, yes.

• 2:35:48Danny Jones?

  This is anecdotal stuff, but like, we have to acknowledge that, uh, the vast majority of anyone writing about the Apollo missions or any government agency is gonna say that James Van Allen didn't say this and Google AI is pulling from this overwhelming amount of stuff that's written online, so.

• 2:36:04Speaker 05

  So that's, that's one reason why they can't leave Earth orbit. And another reason is they don't have enough fuel. And my book, Moon Man. On page 149, here's Von Braun saying it himself, there's not enough fuel to leave Earth orbit.

• 2:36:18Danny Jones?

  Let's hear, let's hear Von Braun saying that.

• 2:36:20Speaker 05

  He has commonly believed that men will fly directly from the Earth to the moon. But to do this, we would require a vehicle of such gigantic proportions that it would prove an economic impossibility. Calculations have been carefully worked out on the type of vehicle we would need for the non-stop flight from Earth to the moon and return. The figures speak for themselves mathematically. Three rockets would be necessary, and each ship would be taller than the Empire State Building, 100 stories. Apollo rocket was about 30 stories. And weigh about 10 times the tonnage of the Queen Mary, or 800,000 tons, times 3. The Saturn V weighed 2,500 tons.

• 2:37:05Speaker 05

  That's a difference of 30,000% times 3. Now, go to clip 18, and you'll see that Elon Musk just said-

• 2:37:15Danny Jones?

  Bart, pause. Where, where, where did you get that quote from?

• 2:37:18Speaker 05

  It's from his book, Voyage to the Moon, written by Von Braun.

• 2:37:21Danny Jones?

  Is there a way we can find that quote on the internet?

• 2:37:23Speaker 05

  Uh, probably. I mean, we, we got, bought an old copy of his book.

• 2:37:28Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:37:29Speaker 05

  And it was written by him and quoted by him.

• 2:37:31Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:37:32Speaker 05

  So, but it's not just-

• 2:37:33Speaker 06

  What's the purpose of this discussion?

• 2:37:36Speaker 05

  You don't know.

• 2:37:37Danny Jones?

  The purpose of this discussion is, uh-

• 2:37:39Speaker 06

  That we didn't go to the moon.

• 2:37:41Danny Jones?

  Allegedly.

• 2:37:42Speaker 05

  You're just proving, if you're, if you're acting like you don't know, just prove that you're acting during the interview. So, he's not the only one who said you need multiple fuel trips to go to the moon.

• 2:37:53Danny Jones?

  So Von Braun, he's saying Von Braun himself was quoted saying that, uh, the Apollo missions would need multiple fueled-

• 2:38:01Speaker 05

  Three rockets, each one 30,000% heavier than the Saturn V rocket.

• 2:38:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:05Speaker 05

  And then Elon Musk said, about six months ago, if you go to clip 18, he said the starship, which is three stories taller than the Apollo rocket, and with the boosters on the side, carries twice the fuel as the Apollo rocket. He says it will take 15 launches, or the equivalent of 30 Saturn V rockets, in order to leave Earth orbit. We even have a video clip- Von Braun saying, everything the best rocket he can build can only leave Earth orbit.

• 2:38:38Danny Jones?

  Let's, let's, well, let's play that clip. Let's play the clip of Von Braun's from the horse's mouth. Let's get what he's saying. What clip number is that? So Steve can find it.

• 2:38:44Speaker 05

  What clip?

• 2:38:47Speaker 05

  Uh, that one I didn't include, but.

• 2:38:49Danny Jones?

  How can we, how can we, how can we find it?

• 2:38:50Speaker 05

  Just go to sibrel.com. It's one of the links of the, of the book.

• 2:38:53Speaker 06

  I don't understand this. I don't understand this conversation.

• 2:38:56Speaker 05

  Well, read this article.

• 2:38:58Danny Jones?

  I understand. I understand. That's your position that you did it and, and you went and you walked on the moon and you brought back the moon rocks. But why would Von Braun say that it was impossible to get to the moon without multiple fuel trips?

• 2:39:13Speaker 06

  I don't know. I don't, I never heard him say that.

• 2:39:16Danny Jones?

  Well, he, we got a video allegedly.

• 2:39:18Speaker 05

  Well, and look at, look at the clip of Elon Musk.

• 2:39:21Danny Jones?

  I want to see the clip of Von Braun. Show us where to find the Von Braun clip. Let's stick to one thing at a time.

• 2:39:25Speaker 05

  He doesn't have it. Well, it's if you go to sibrel.com and then go to Moon Man Links.

• 2:39:30Danny Jones?

  S I B R E L.

• 2:39:32Speaker 05

  Look for the one that looks like old 1950s color. And there's one of Von Braun. I don't know what clip it is. But in the meantime, while you're doing that.

• 2:39:39Danny Jones?

  No, no, wait, wait, you're, you're, you're, you're going, you're getting too far ahead of yourself. We're here. Now where do we go?

• 2:39:43Speaker 05

  Scroll down, keep scrolling.

• 2:39:48Speaker 05

  Just keep going. Keep going.

• 2:39:50Danny Jones?

  Maybe, maybe you can find it on YouTube. Maybe you can find it on YouTube or something.

• 2:39:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, I decided not to bring it, but Von Braun says the largest rocket that we can build, it's with Disney film, can only achieve Earth orbit. He says it word for word in a quote from my book. And now we have Elon Musk. If you go to the clip of, uh, D18, he's saying the very same thing. Look at D18. Read this headline and read the highlighted part.

• 2:40:18Danny Jones?

  Okay. This is a headline from spacepolicyonline.com. Uh, okay. At least 15 starship launches needed to execute the Artemis III lunar landing. SpaceX will need to launch at least 15 starships to execute the Artemis III lunar landing, NASA said today.

• 2:40:39Danny Jones?

  So NASA said, so SpaceX will need 15 starships to execute it, says NASA.

• 2:40:43Speaker 05

  Right, and they carry twice the fuel.

• 2:40:45Danny Jones?

  Starship cannot fly directly to the moon, but must refuel in Earth orbit before setting out for deep space.

• 2:40:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's what the clip of on Bron says that I didn't include it that you can go to the moon if you do multiple trips of fuel and ferry the fuel first. And now you're gonna love this next clip, go to clip 19. This was said less than a year ago by a rocket scientist who works with NASA. And he says it's gonna take possibly more than 15 trips of fuel in order to leave Earth orbit and go to the moon.

• 2:41:23Speaker 06

  So we did do it, is what you're saying.

• 2:41:26Speaker 05

  I don't know why you keep acting surprised.

• 2:41:28Danny Jones?

  Go ahead, play.

• 2:41:29Speaker 05

  You're just proving your acting. You know, you, you came in here and reminded me of a phone call we had 20 years ago when I said, I have proof we didn't go to the moon when I found the footage.

• 2:41:40Danny Jones?

  So, okay, who's this guy?

• 2:41:41Speaker 17

  Issues in how people communicate about it. Like, there's some architecture problems that people are unwilling to talk about these days because of how they got there politically. And I was like, you know what? I just want to go say the thing that nobody's saying. So that's what I decided to do. Now, a lot of people I respect, when I was doing my research and asking these questions, they said, be careful, Destin. If you say certain things, this might change your relationship with NASA forever. And I thought about it and I decided, you know what? This is the truth and this is what needs to be said. I did not understand until this week, when I really thought I was gonna embarrass myself in front of you guys and then decided to further embarrass myself in front of you guys.

• 2:42:22Speaker 17

  I didn't realize that in order to get the human lander to the moon, we have to launch a bunch of additional rockets to tank up in low Earth orbit. I didn't know that. And I'm like, wow, how many rockets do we have to do that with? And they're like, six? And then I start, because I-

• 2:42:42Danny Jones?

  Who is this?

• 2:42:43Speaker 05

  He's a rocket scientist building rockets for NASA.

• 2:42:45Danny Jones?

  What's his name?

• 2:42:46Speaker 05

  I don't know.

• 2:42:48Danny Jones?

  That's, that's would be important to know.

• 2:42:50Speaker 12

  That guy, he's a YouTuber, is, he has a channel called Smarter Every Day.

• 2:42:55Danny Jones?

  Smarter Every Day on YouTube.

• 2:42:56Speaker 05

  Okay, so he's saying it's gonna take multiple-

• 2:42:59Danny Jones?

  Let's finish playing the video.

• 2:43:04Speaker 17

  I know people. I started calling people. I was like, dude, really? How many rockets is it? They're like, well, boil off. And okay, so I was like, some people are like, well, it's looking like eight. I was like, eight rockets? We have to fire eight rockets to fire one rocket to the moon? And then they're like, I mean, that's what they're saying, but it's probably more like 12. Really? And then I was like, you know, I'm an engineer. I know how to do this stuff. So I started to account for like nominal schedule slip and boil off. And this is how many rockets is going to take to fuel up that thing to get it to the moon? I've done the math. If you had any questions?

• 2:43:37Speaker 05

  I found the Von Braun clip. It's D17. There, Steve. Okay. Von Braun says, "The biggest rocket you can build can only achieve Earth orbit. You need multiple fuel trips to go to the moon."

• 2:43:48Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:43:48Speaker 05

  Says it on camera as well as in print.

• 2:43:51Danny Jones?

  All right. This will be good for Charlie to see. Charlie, watch this one.

• 2:43:57Speaker 18

  Here to reveal a plan for a trip around the moon is the chief of the guided missile development at the United States Army's Redstone Arsenal, Dr. Werner Von Braun.

• 2:44:09Speaker 08

  A voyage around the moon must be made in two phases. A rocket ship taking off from the Earth's surface will use almost all the fuel it can carry just to attain a speed great enough to balance the pull of gravity. Unpowered, it will then keep circling the Earth in an orbit outside of the atmosphere. This is the first phase. However, if we can refuel the ship in this orbit with fuel brought up by cargo rocket ships, it can set out on the second phase, the trip around the moon and back.

• 2:44:44Speaker 05

  So three people just said, Von Braun said it twice, that you have to make ferry fuel trips to have enough fuel to leave Earth orbit. You had him say it on camera. You had Elon Musk say it, and you had a rocket scientist building rockets for NASA saying it. He also said, "I just discovered this," because he is taking the Apollo launches on faith. You know, my bank webpage...

• 2:45:12Speaker 06

  Says that my money is backed by the faith in the United States government that kills their own presidents, kills their own soldiers, and fakes moon land teams, right?

• 2:45:23Danny Jones?

  So, so, Charlie, what do you make of that video of Von Braun saying that, that you would need to refuel in Earth orbit to get all the way to the moon? And it, because it would take, he said it would take all the fuel in the rocket to get that orbit around the Earth, and then you would need to refuel again before going to the moon?

• 2:45:41Speaker 06

  I've never heard that before. Actually, they built the Saturn V.

• 2:45:47Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:45:48Speaker 06

  And, and the Saturn V lifted, lifted off, and the third stage, that you stayed attached to the third stage, and you were on, on the front end with that, with the command model, service module, lunar module. You fired out of Earth orbit, and you got your, and you started way to the moon. So that's the end of the Saturn V.

• 2:46:12Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:46:13Speaker 06

  S4B.

• 2:46:14Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:46:15Speaker 06

  Okay, it, it opened up, the pedals opened up, and exposed the lunar module. You separated the command service module, and then beneath it, these flowers opened up, and they, and exposed the top of the lunar module. So you'd made a 180 degree turn, and you came back in, and you joined up with the top of the lunar module. That was the docking ring. You, you docked, you latched all the latches, made sure you were connected correctly, you hit a, a switch, you hit a switch, and you, of some sort, and it released the lunar module.

• 2:47:00Speaker 06

  And then you just backed it out with your reaction control system in the command service module. And, and then, so that was the condition, you went to the moon in a barbecue, sometimes in a barbecue, with the lunar module attached.

• 2:47:18Speaker 06

  And we went into it to check it out, make sure there was no leaks, this and that and the other. And but then we closed it back up again, and then we didn't go in again until we got into lunar orbit. We got into lunar orbit and John and I, I was the first one in. And I put on my space suit, except for helmets and gloves, and took those with me. And then we went into the lunar module, and I started powering up. And that, I forgot exactly how long that took, but it was several revolutions. And John came in, and when we got ready, we put on our helmets and gloves, and pressurized to make sure these, everything

• 2:48:02Speaker 06

  was pressurized the suits, to make sure everything was okay. And when everything passed, we just, I forgot whether Mattingly hit the button, or we hit, it was Mattingly, and he just released us. And we just backed off.

• 2:48:19Speaker 05

  Well, Von Braun, in my book, Moon Man, he said that these numbers are mathematically irrefutable. The numbers speak for themselves. Things become more fuel efficient over time. So it's taking a tremendous amount of more fuel to go to the moon now than in 1969. Von Braun said, it's impossible twice, once in writing, once on camera. Elon Musk, with a rocket that carries twice the fuel of the Apollo rocket, says that you cannot go unless you make 15 fuel trips first, which is an equivalent of 30 Saturn V rockets. And we just heard a rocket scientist say, he may get in trouble with NASA for saying this,

• 2:49:00Speaker 05

  but it's gonna take 15, 20, up to, you know, 28, I counted all of them in the graphic, 28 clips to go to the, ships to go to the moon. The next three clips I have are people like Kelly Smith, and Don Pettit, modern day astronauts, and they say the farthest they can go is Earth orbit. This is clip D 20. And they hope to eventually go to the moon. Play D 20, it's real short.

• 2:49:26Speaker 06

  Well Bart, what's the point of this discussion? We did not go to the moon?

• 2:49:31Speaker 05

  You're just digging your hole deeper every time you say that, General.

• 2:49:35Speaker 06

  So Bart, when it, when it comes to Wait, wait, wait.

• 2:49:39Speaker 06

  So Apollo was all faked.

• 2:49:41Danny Jones?

  According to Bart, yes, it was all faked. It was a big propaganda campaign during the Cold War.

• 2:49:46Speaker 06

  And so we had 260 something pounds of moon rocks that were brought back. They're all fake?

• 2:49:53Danny Jones?

  I guess Bart hasn't seen them, hasn't analyzed them.

• 2:49:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, you remembered word for word, a telephone conversation we had 20 years ago. And at the beginning, not recorded, and somehow you can't remember what we said a half an hour ago. That the moon rocks are fake. We showed an article. Von Braun picked up hundreds of pounds in Antarctica right before the Apollo mission, and according to a contractor, they can manufacture them. Go to clip D20.

• 2:50:20Speaker 06

  Just let me make, I was in delusion for two weeks.

• 2:50:28Speaker 06

  I was on the moon for three days.

• 2:50:31Speaker 05

  Well, you said you have top secret.

• 2:50:32Speaker 06

  Wait just a minute, just a minute. And I picked up 200, I think we picked up a couple of hundred pounds of moon rocks. And we brought them back. They've been analyzed. They're moon rocks. And so I don't understand the purpose of this discussion. Why are we going back and saying Apollo was a fake?

• 2:50:56Speaker 05

  Why does an Apollo astronaut have top secret clearance?

• 2:51:00Speaker 06

  I didn't have top secret clearance.

• 2:51:02Speaker 05

  Oh, okay. I thought you said that.

• 2:51:05Speaker 06

  I mean, we had nothing on Apollo that was classified. But I did have a clearance from my military of time. When I was before NASA, and I did have a top secret clearance then.

• 2:51:23Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:51:24Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 2:51:25Speaker 05

  Clip D20 is a modern day shuttle astronaut saying the farthest they can go is Earth orbit. And they hope to eventually go to the moon. D20.

• 2:51:37Speaker 05

  D20, let me look at it.

• 2:51:39Danny Jones?

  So when it comes to the evolution of rockets and technology,

• 2:51:45Danny Jones?

  it's not necessarily that the Saturn rocket would be impossible to make. Like, it wouldn't be physically impossible. But an argument would be that it's logistically impossible. Because today, in 2025, we don't have the same machines. We don't have the same talents. We don't have the same trades that we had, that were available in the 1960s.

• 2:52:10Speaker 05

  Because they destroyed it.

• 2:52:11Danny Jones?

  The world has evolved. The economy has evolved. We do things differently now. Objectives have changed. Now, we're focusing on building reusable rockets. So the Saturn was not a reusable rocket, right? So now, we're trying to save money developing a new style of rocket. So that would be a compelling argument to why we haven't gone back to the moon is because we build rockets differently because the objectives have changed.

• 2:52:38Speaker 05

  Well, all I know is what Elon Musk says. For a rocket that can carry twice the fuel of the Saturn V Apollo rocket, it's going to take 15 launches to a fuel station first in order to have enough fuel to leave Earth orbit to go to the moon. He said it, the rocket scientist just said it. Von Braun said it on camera, Von Braun said it in writing. And we're about to look at a shuttle astronaut who says the farthest they can go with the technology we have is Earth orbit, and they hope to eventually go to the moon. That's clip D21, it's real short.

• 2:53:13Speaker 12

  So that's smarter every day, that YouTuber, that smarter everyday YouTuber. He was, out of context, it sounds the way it does, but he was, here, I'll pop it up here. So he was, his name is Destin. And he was talking about how poorly planned the current moon mission is that they, and he was pointing out that this particular starship HLS, which is the return rocket, it's this thingy right here. It is so heavy that their, their plan isn't going to work out. And so he did the math with the current weight and...

• 2:53:54Speaker 12

  And he's, and that's why he said it's not going to work out. You need all these rockets. So here's the weight of this thing that they want to build.

• 2:54:02Danny Jones?

  This is a different, a different rocket.

• 2:54:04Speaker 12

  This is the one that they haven't built yet, but they want to. It's a hundred tons. Okay. And then the original Apollo lander was thirty three thousand. No, no, no, the moon lander.

• 2:54:14Danny Jones?

  Oh, the moon lander was thirty five thousand, thirty three thousand pounds.

• 2:54:16Speaker 12

  Thirty three thousand.

• 2:54:17Speaker 05

  Talking about the rocket to leave Earth.

• 2:54:19Danny Jones?

  Let's talk about, he's talking about the lander.

• 2:54:21Speaker 12

  This is the lander. So to have a Saturn rocket carry just thirty five thousand pounds is nothing. That rocket cannot carry one hundred tons.

• 2:54:30Danny Jones?

  So what is this? The dry, empty weight of the starship human landing system is approximately one hundred tons. So they're saying that this rocket would need to carry something that's a hundred tons compared to the Apollo lander, which was thirty three thousand pounds.

• 2:54:46Speaker 12

  Yeah, that's the, that's the.

• 2:54:47Danny Jones?

  If I hadn't gone. That's an important, important context.

• 2:54:51Speaker 05

  Well, Von Braun, I don't know anyone who knows more about it than Von Braun.

• 2:54:54Danny Jones?

  Well, Von Braun was talking about thirty three thousand pound lander, that, that, what this astronaut that you just showed us talking about, talking about all the refueling, you have to understand the context that the lander that they're talking about shooting off into, into the moon was a hundred tons, according to this. So that would make sense that they would need more fuel.

• 2:55:10Speaker 05

  Moon in fifty seven years, I would go just as efficiently as humanly possible. And for the first time in history, technology was destroyed, the lunar module, schematics, the original videotapes.

• 2:55:27Danny Jones?

  Right, we've talked about this. It's all been destroyed, right.

• 2:55:29Speaker 05

  Again, you don't do that unless you're covering your tracks. And we have Elon Musk saying it's going to take fifteen ships. You have that guy saying it's going to take to up to twenty eight. You had Von Braun say, okay, Von Braun was the designer of the Saturn V rocket. He says it's gonna take multiple fuel trips to go to the moon. If that's what it takes today, then that's what it would take then, despite the, the design. Because Von Braun was talking about the lunar module. He's the one who ended up designing all of that stuff. And he says that equipment.

• 2:56:02Danny Jones?

  Well.

• 2:56:03Speaker 05

  Is gonna take multiple fuel trips to leave Earth orbit.

• 2:56:06Danny Jones?

  Right, but again. This thing weighs a hundred tons they're trying to bring to the moon. So back then, when Charlie went to the moon, allegedly, the goal was to beat Russia, right? All they cared about was getting man on the moon to show the world that America was the number, was the world leader in technology and science and, and was, and was more superior to Russia, right? You could, you could make the argument that the primary goal of the Apollo missions was to just show the world that we're better and just show that we can actually physically put a human being on the moon.

• 2:56:43Speaker 05

  You're right, a wonder show.

• 2:56:44Danny Jones?

  Now, right, right. Doesn't mean it had to have been fake. It, what it could mean is that we just wanted to get people on the moon, no matter what, we could do it with the most efficient light equipment possible. Now, if we wanted to go back today in 2025, we would have a different objective. We would want to get more done. It wouldn't just be about putting a person on the moon and broadcasting that to the world. It would be about something far greater, like populating the moon or something like this. So it would require different technology. It would require bringing different things to the moon. And it would also require maybe not taking such a risk, right? Like they, obviously that was a big risk going there in 69, bringing human beings there.

• 2:57:29Danny Jones?

  Today, today, you could argue that we wouldn't want to make that level of a risk.

• 2:57:34Speaker 05

  Okay. So in writing and on camera, Von Braun, talking about the future Apollo rocket, the first rocket to go to the moon, that's the one he was designing. That's the one, he said, it would take three rockets weighing 30,000% more than the Saturn V rocket. That's what he said on camera, the first rocket to the moon, which is the one they claimed they used. It can only go into Earth orbit and then it would take multiple fuel trips in order to go to the moon. That's the first one, not the current one, right? Then we have also Elon Musk saying multiple fuel trips. We have that guy saying multiple fuel trips. That's for, you know, whatever spacecraft, just to get there and land, it's going to take all of that fuel, multiple fuel.

• 2:58:18Speaker 05

  They set it back in before the Apollo rocket and they're saying it to quote return to the moon. Okay. And clip D 20 is a space shuttle astronaut saying earth orbit is their limit. That's why they're faking being halfway to the moon. Mm hmm. And that clip we showed for radiation. Okay. We must solve these challenges before we go through that region of space. Here's an astronaut in clip 20 saying the farthest they can go with current technology is earth orbit and they hope to eventually go to the moon. Okay, let's watch it. 30 seconds.

• 2:58:50Speaker 19

  Right now, we only can fly in earth orbit. That's the farthest that we can go. And this new system that we're building is going to allow us to go beyond and hopefully take humans into the solar system to explore. So the moon, Mars, asteroids, the moon, Mars, asteroid, the moon, Mars, asteroids. There's a lot of destinations that we could go to and we're building these building block components in order to allow us to do that eventually. Eventually. Eventually.

• 2:59:18Speaker 05

  Right. He says eventually go to the moon. Sure. And he's not the only one. There's two other short clips. I mean, if he's misspeaking, then we have three people misspeaking. The next one says this is the beginning of humans leaving earth orbit. That's clip D 21. The beginning of earth of humans leaving earth orbit is what this astronaut says. Clip 21. Okay.

• 2:59:44Speaker 20

  But we're also really pushing the boundaries in terms of where we're going forward with exploration. I think humans are naturally driven to do this and this is really the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, I think, of human beings leaving low earth orbit.

• 2:59:59Speaker 05

  And the next clip is from about, I think about four months ago. An astronaut for the Artemis program saying this is going to be the first time we send humans to the moon. Even says before it, you gotta pay attention. You may not like this or words to the effect that the other guy said. Okay. This is the last, the last clip we're going to play on this topic, then we're going to move to the next one. Sure. That's how I have it. Okay.

• 3:00:27Speaker 19

  This is going to be an odd answer. It might, it might hit, it might land wrong, but I'm going to try anyway to.

• 3:00:33Speaker 00

  This is the first time we're gonna send humans to the moon. This is the first time we're gonna send humans to the moon. This is the first time we're gonna send humans to the moon.

• 3:00:40Speaker 05

  Even.

• 3:00:41Danny Jones?

  What did he say after that? You cut it out. What did he say after that?

• 3:00:44Speaker 05

  Well, he went on talking and they passed the microphone back and forth.

• 3:00:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but how do you know? How do you know he didn't? How do the viewers know that he didn't say in 53 years or something like that? Like you just cut it?

• 3:00:54Speaker 05

  Oh, no, he didn't. You can find it.

• 3:00:56Danny Jones?

  Okay, we'll take your word for it, I guess.

• 3:00:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I listened to it. It's just they passed the microphone around. He even said something to the words of the fact that's may rock the boat of the audience or whatever, something like that.

• 3:01:05Danny Jones?

  Okay. All right. Um, I want to talk about the micrometeorites. What was the threat level of like the micrometeorites when you were on the moon? Um, because I let, from what I understand is there are, there's a high risk of being hit by micrometeorites, right? When you're on the surface of the moon.

• 3:01:24Speaker 06

  Uh, we had a, uh, if they, if they saw a solar flare, the only thing I remember, if we had a solar flare, we would have to get back into the lunar module and lift off and then join up and point the heat shield towards the solar flare. I don't remember anything about micrometeorites.

• 3:01:46Danny Jones?

  No, there was no discussion or no warnings about trying to mitigate?

• 3:01:50Speaker 06

  No.

• 3:01:51Danny Jones?

  Mitigate micrometeorites?

• 3:01:52Speaker 05

  In Von Braun's book, the one that has the quote, which is called Voyage to the Moon, he says that micrometeorites would cause a catastrophic or fatal error, 50% chance every 24 hours. Thousands of them hit the moon every second. He says you'd have to immediately go into a lead shelter or a cave on the moon. He said it would cause death 50% of the time every 24 hours. There's so many of them.

• 3:02:19Speaker 06

  Hmm. Well, we made, we made it a lot longer than that and nobody died on it.

• 3:02:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, with somehow 16 tanks of oxygen in that little backpack in order to be out there for eight hours at a time. The, to me, this is one of the most striking examples of why the moon landings are fake. If you look at D23, this is the shadows.

• 3:02:39Danny Jones?

  Okay, let's see.

• 3:02:40Speaker 05

  I'm a filmmaker.

• 3:02:41Danny Jones?

  Oh, the shadows, okay.

• 3:02:42Speaker 05

  My, my job as a filmmaker is to make fake scenes look real.

• 3:02:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:02:46Speaker 05

  I use lighting to mimic the sun all the time, fooled other filmmakers. They thought it was the sunset, but it was really a light. You can prove that the moon landings are fake with this one picture.

• 3:02:57Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:02:58Speaker 05

  Because the sun being about a thousand times bigger. And diameter than the earth casts shadows in the same direction over the entire earth or moon. They're always parallel. It's mathematically and scientifically impossible for shadows to intersect in sunlight, as you can tell in the photograph on the left. The photograph on the right is allegedly from the last mission to the moon, where an astronaut's shadow goes at 12 o'clock and a rock about five feet away goes at 9 o'clock. That's a 90-degree difference from objects five feet apart, indicating that at least two electrical lights are being used. You can even see a hotspot around the top. So, if you want to prove the moon landing is fake, you can prove it in one photograph.

• 3:03:41Speaker 05

  The photograph on the right cannot be duplicated in sunlight. It's supposed to be 20 times brighter with no atmosphere. There's no need for electrical lighting, but obviously, the one on the right was lit with electrical lighting. The shadows should be parallel. They're intersecting at 90 degrees from objects five feet apart. That would prove it in a court of law, as well as the footage we have of them being, faking being halfway to the moon, that they didn't go to the moon. That's all the proof you need. It's right there. People can deny it. I talked to a college professor who teaches aerospace at one of the university's most famous one in America. He says if Neil Armstrong confessed on national TV that the moon missions were fake, he'd

• 3:04:24Speaker 05

  still think he walked on the moon anyway. People deny the evidence over and over again. They've made a god out of it. You can change the hat on who shot JFK and why. You can change the hat on who did 9/11 and why. It's still a tragedy. This is a positive lie, and people do not want to give it up. I got an email from Carl Sagan's associate, who told me privately that he believed the moon landings were fake, but he was afraid to say it publicly because of it being politically incorrect. And Carl Sagan said this: "One of the saddest lessons of history is this." If we've been bamboozled or lied to long enough,

• 3:05:07Speaker 05

  we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan, like the federal government, power over you, you almost never get it back. And Mark Twain said, "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." The problem, this is a positive lie. This is giving candy to a child and trying to take it away. And people keep defending the people who are ripping them off because our tax dollars went into paying the salaries

• 3:05:50Speaker 05

  of the CIA agents that killed the Apollo One crew.

• 3:05:53Danny Jones?

  On the shadows, you can get shadows to angle towards each other in sunlight. It's a fact, you can do it. Depending on your focal length of the lens and how far away you are from the objects. With one single light source, you can very easily make it appear as if shadows are aiming.

• 3:06:10Speaker 05

  It's not a light source, it's the sun.

• 3:06:12Danny Jones?

  The sun, correct. You can do that with the sun.

• 3:06:14Speaker 05

  I'd like to see it.

• 3:06:15Danny Jones?

  All right, Steve, cue it up.

• 3:06:16Speaker 05

  We could go outside or whatever. But, and again, you're right about the lens. This is a 50 millimeter lens.

• 3:06:23Danny Jones?

  Okay, let's watch this. This is by the everyday astronaut. He made a video.

• 3:06:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, the people who believe we went to the moon.

• 3:06:29Danny Jones?

  All right, well, you're the people who believe we didn't go to the moon.

• 3:06:32Speaker 05

  Right.

• 3:06:32Danny Jones?

  So this is a fair shake at the shadow argument.

• 3:06:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, let me say this.

• 3:06:36Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:06:37Speaker 05

  If they went to the moon, even though it can't be repeated 50 years later by no nation on earth, and they can only go one thousandth of far now.

• 3:06:45Danny Jones?

  Bart, we're talking about shadows right now.

• 3:06:46Speaker 05

  I understand this. But here's the overall point of a person like this.

• 3:06:51Danny Jones?

  Okay, I understand.

• 3:06:52Speaker 05

  If they went to the moon, then the amount of evidence I have is zero. And yet, if you look up moon fraud, you get 1,001 YouTube videos by people who were deceived, who have made a god out of the moon landing, who, if I went around saying Mickey Mouse was the first president of the United States, you think there'd be 1,000 videos to disprove me? The reason why they're ours because there's so much emerging proof that the moon missions are fake.

• 3:07:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:07:23Speaker 05

  And they're scrambling to somehow justify all the condemning evidence like OJ's defense attorney. No matter what evidence is presented, they have some excuse for it.

• 3:07:32Danny Jones?

  Sure. Okay, we're gonna watch this video of the everyday astronaut discussing the lunar shadows. Full screen this. Because I think this is very compelling. And this is, uh, go ahead.

• 3:07:47Speaker 00

  What seems like inconsistent shadows is a common thing for people to point to as suspect of a hoax. For this, let's take a look at this photograph that some people question, saying it was shot in a studio and is proof the Apollo landings were fake. It's from Apollo 17. Magazine 136, frame 20,744, shot on one of the iconic Hasselblad 500 EL 6x6 medium format cameras with a Zeiss 60mm f 5.6 lens by astronaut Harrison "Jack" Schmidt at mission elapsed time of 122 hours, 32 minutes, and 50 seconds in the Taurus Litro Valley. The claim here is that the shadows appear to be coming together, proving there to be

• 3:08:31Speaker 00

  multiple sources of light, or perhaps a light that's far too close, certainly not the sun that's millions of kilometers away. This is one of the easiest things to demonstrate on your own. All we have to do is go out when the sun is fairly low in the sky, about 15 degrees above the horizon, to match the lighting conditions in the photo. Then we need a lens that would be 35mm on a full frame camera or a 35mm equivalent lens, since the 60mm lens on a medium format camera is equal to about 38mm. So to get the same perspective and angle of view, we'll want to aim for, you know, 35mm or 40mm equivalent. Then we just need our camera to be placed roughly mid-chest to match where the Hasselblads were mounted.

• 3:09:14Danny Jones?

  Little play, little play.

• 3:09:15Speaker 00

  On the A7 LB space suits. It's pretty obvious that all shadows appear to point inwards towards the center of the photo. The further left or right an object is, the more this is exaggerated. And honestly, This is perhaps one of the most elementary of all things. They appear this way because of perspective. The exact same way parallel train tracks or roads appear to converge. And to prove these shadows are indeed parallel, let's just fly up and look down to confirm that they're indeed straight and parallel. Now ironically, conspiracy theorists claim something exactly backwards. They say shadows appear to converge because it's a close studio spotlight that is roughly 10 feet behind the subject. But the closer a light source is to the camera,

• 3:10:00Speaker 00

  the more the shadows appear to line up with the camera's field of view. So the shadows actually become less and less visible to the vantage point of the camera.

• 3:10:09Speaker 05

  They diverge.

• 3:10:10Speaker 00

  The closer the light source is. Again, this is kind of photography 101 stuff here. Now, it's often claimed that there are multiple sources of light, and that's why the shadows appear to be in different directions. But the reality is that multiple sources of light will produce multiple shadows on a single subject. And actually, the lighting on the surface of the moon would be virtually impossible to replicate in a studio, even with limitless funds and the most advanced solutions in the world. Because notice that in all the images, the entire surface of the moon is equally lit. Since we don't see multiple shadows, you couldn't use multiple sources of light to try and evenly light the scenes, let alone mountains that are several kilometers away from the camera. And light follows the inverse square law.

• 3:10:55Speaker 00

  If you move an object twice as far away from a light source, it'll receive one quarter the amount of light. So imagine trying to light a scene where everything is evenly lit, and you don't see multiple shadows. Your light source would have to be several kilometers away, maybe hundreds or millions of kilometers away, and it would have to be unbelievably bright. Or perhaps, you know, it could just be the sun. And while we're talking about shadows...

• 3:11:19Speaker 05

  Go back toward the beginning of the video, where he's trying to mimic the picture that I showed. Where there's that little L bracket that's painted white, which is supposed to represent the rock.

• 3:11:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:31Speaker 05

  Okay, go there.

• 3:11:32Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:11:32Speaker 05

  Make that full frame. Okay, the, the shadow of the little L bracket or whatever it is, is not intersecting at 90 degrees. It's not pointing at nine o'clock. And the, and the picture that they claim was on the moon, it is. Put them side by side. Plus, he's using a wide angle lens, which is the type of lens they use in a drone.

• 3:11:54Danny Jones?

  No, that's not a drone right there.

• 3:11:56Speaker 05

  Which causes a little bit of a curvature in the picture.

• 3:11:58Danny Jones?

  The rock is not pointing 90 degrees, though.

• 3:12:00Speaker 05

  Well.

• 3:12:01Danny Jones?

  The top of the rock is like right here. The top of the rock goes up like that and it's, it's projecting that way. It just looks wider because the rock is wider right there. Like poking out right there. It makes it look like it's pointing 90 degrees.

• 3:12:13Speaker 05

  Compare it with the, with the one. Move this over to the left and put it side by side.

• 3:12:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's the same exact thing, dude.

• 3:12:21Speaker 05

  They're not, they're not, the shadows are not going the same direction. Okay? He's trying to mimic the picture.

• 3:12:27Danny Jones?

  They are going the same direction, Bart.

• 3:12:28Speaker 05

  This is sunlight and they are not intersecting in the same way in the picture that they claim on the moon. It's not. He's making excuses, but if you look at them side by side, the object that's representing the rock, the shadow is going a completely different direction.

• 3:12:43Danny Jones?

  Play that, that YouTube video again. Play it from where it is.

• 3:12:53Danny Jones?

  Pause it right there. Go back where it shows the, okay. It looks like those two shadows are pointing in towards each other. It does not look like they are going in the same direction as his shadow. It looks like they're pointing in towards him.

• 3:13:09Speaker 05

  Well, the point is they're trying to mimic the picture that he just showed. He showed the picture that I showed right before this. The big shadow in the middle is supposed to be the astronaut and the little white L bracket is supposed to be the rock. But the shadow is not going all the way to the left at nine o'clock, the same as in the picture.

• 3:13:29Danny Jones?

  But why, okay, why are they converging? Why are the shadows from the, from the bracket and that helmet or whatever it is? Why are they converging in and his shadow?

• 3:13:38Speaker 05

  They're still not intersecting. If you follow the trajectory.

• 3:13:40Danny Jones?

  It would absolutely intersect with his shadow if you kept, if you kept.

• 3:13:43Speaker 05

  Well, again, it's a wide angle lens that makes the picture curve, not a 50 millimeter lens, which is completely different. Look at my picture again.

• 3:13:54Speaker 05

  Parallel shadows, that's how it should look. Okay, the one on the left is taken with the 50 millimeter lens. They don't converge.

• 3:14:02Danny Jones?

  I understand what you're saying about the rock. It looks like, it looks like-

• 3:14:05Speaker 05

  Those shadows intersect in a few feet. You're, you're, according to that wide angle lens, they would converge or come together at some point in the great distance.

• 3:14:16Danny Jones?

  But that rock on the top right, the shadow is not projecting to the left. The shadow is projecting behind it, but the bottom, the base of the rock touching the ground is more narrow than the top of the rock. It gets wider as it goes out, which from our perspective, makes it look like the shadow's going that way, when in fact, the shadow is just wider because the light is shooting that way. The light, the shadow's projecting that way, but the shadow is wider than the base of the rock, which makes it look like it's going that way, but it's not. It's like an optical illusion.

• 3:14:52Speaker 05

  Well, that person has said, there's no evidence, so it can ever be presented that will make him deny the authenticity of the moon missions. So let's look-

• 3:15:01Danny Jones?

  And you've said the exact opposite.

• 3:15:02Speaker 05

  No, no, I, no, I proved that I, that I can change my mind, because I went from being the greatest fan to the greatest skeptic. If you look at clip 27-

• 3:15:12Danny Jones?

  Let me ask you this.

• 3:15:12Speaker 05

  We're talking about the pictures.

• 3:15:14Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:15:14Speaker 05

  But this is the smartest AI in the world that has a deep fake detector program that has never been wrong, not available to the public, clip 27. It can tell whether a video of Biden or Trump is a deep fake in one second. It's never been wrong. It can analyze pixels in the foreground and see whether the background is fake if the pixels line up. The smartest AI in the world-

• 3:15:38Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 3:15:38Speaker 05

  -just said all the Apollo pictures were fake.

• 3:15:41Danny Jones?

  Okay, I agree. I, I, we'll look at that. But can you concede that what we're looking at-

• 3:15:47Speaker 05

  It's not a duplicate. It's not. I mean, come on.

• 3:15:50Danny Jones?

  Can you concede that that rock?

• 3:15:51Speaker 05

  Completely different. The one on the left from Apollo seventeen, they intersect in about two feet. The one on the right, they would eventually come to a point somewhere down the path, and that's simply because it's shot with a wide-angle lens. The one on the left of sunlight, all the way to the left, is not a wide-angle lens. And so you see, they don't seem to converge in a point, because they actually don't.

• 3:16:14Danny Jones?

  Right. But if you had a light source that was closer than the sun and smaller than the sun, that would not make the shadows intersect. Do you understand that?

• 3:16:24Speaker 05

  Well, Steve, last time I was here, duplicated the Apollo seventeen picture with two electrical lights. Because that's how it was taken, with two electrical lights.

• 3:16:34Danny Jones?

  Do you understand that if you have, and Steve, tell me if I'm, if I'm full of shit, if I'm wrong here. If you have two objects, and one light source close to the objects versus compared to a light source that's thousands of miles away, would the closer light source make the shadows go out or make it go in? It would make them go out. Out. Correct. So it's not possible that it was a closer light source, because a closer light source would not make the shadows converge, Bart.

• 3:17:01Speaker 05

  Well, I've been a, I've won best cinematography, and I say that the picture on the, that they claim is on the moon was taken with an electrical light. And Steve, who believes we went to the moon, last time duplicated the shadows with two electrical lights. That's how it was taken, and that's how Steve duplicated it. Now, let's, let's forget our opinion.

• 3:17:22Danny Jones?

  I think the shadow argument, I think this is, I think this is the worst piece of evidence, because I think this is easily blown out of the water.

• 3:17:28Speaker 05

  Well, I disagree. Let's, let's look at what the smartest AI in the world thinks.

• 3:17:34Danny Jones?

  About the shadows?

• 3:17:35Speaker 05

  Well, about the pictures. He said every Apollo picture, the AI, I'm assuming it's he, said that they had fake backdrops. Play the clip, D27, where Putin was at this conference, this, the AI conference of two years ago in Moscow. They were allowed to play with this, you know, AI that's not available to the public. Ten AIs scrunge together.

• 3:17:59Speaker 05

  And it said the Apollo pictures were fake. So either Google's $1 billion 10-year investment produced a stupid AI, or the pictures are fake.

• 3:18:10Danny Jones?

  Now, can we use the AI ourselves and ask it and get the answer?

• 3:18:13Speaker 05

  That's not available to the public. It was available at this conference.

• 3:18:17Speaker 12

  How, how, how long ago was the conference?

• 3:18:19Danny Jones?

  Okay, well, let's watch the clip.

• 3:18:20Speaker 05

  Well, watch clip 27.

• 3:18:21Speaker 12

  Well, how, how, how long ago was the conference?

• 3:18:23Speaker 05

  Two years ago.

• 3:18:24Danny Jones?

  Two years ago. So 2023? 2023. Play it.

• 3:18:28Speaker 21

  ...

• 3:18:39Speaker 22

  That's the thing that's not real?

• 3:18:41Speaker 21

  Yeah.

• 3:18:41Speaker 22

  The red one. ...

• 3:18:47Danny Jones?

  So there will be no bias. It's surprising, but it does believe so.

• 3:18:52Danny Jones?

  The neural network has analyzed a lot of data, including light and dark contrast, etc. And then it believes the photo is synthetic.

• 3:19:02Speaker 05

  And it compared them. It compared the photos to the Chinese landers that landed in 2018. And it was fed pictures of them, of the lunar surface. It said they were real.

• 3:19:14Danny Jones?

  Okay, where did you get this video?

• 3:19:15Speaker 05

  Um, I don't remember where it came from, but it, I got it off the internet about two years ago.

• 3:19:20Danny Jones?

  Look, I, what you're saying is compelling to me. But when you're bringing hardcore evidence like this to prove something so incredible, I mean, you have to have a little bit more than just a video with no source.

• 3:19:33Speaker 05

  Well, actually, it got it inverted. He's the one who claims on a, on a, on the moon, where only people with top-secret clearance are there, where there's no independent press coverage, and we have to trust the federal government, what happened on the moon. That's, that's the preposterous claim.

• 3:19:51Danny Jones?

  I understand.

• 3:19:52Speaker 05

  That needs to be made.

• 3:19:53Danny Jones?

  Correct. Yes, I would agree with you there as well. But what I want, what I'm trying to say is, in order for me to believe you, I can't just watch clips that you don't have the source for, and that we also can't corroborate ourselves.

• 3:20:04Speaker 05

  That was Putin. You didn't recognize Putin there?

• 3:20:06Danny Jones?

  It was Putin, but we don't know what he was looking at. We couldn't see the screen. And we don't know, we have no access to it. This is you in your movie, taking a clip and putting captions on it, and saying that it was him looking at a neural AI. I don't, I can't understand Russian. I don't even know if those captions are real. Right? So like, there has to be a little bit... Uh, more source evidence to corroborate what you're saying, right?

• 3:20:28Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, come on, that video speaks for itself. Look, you're gonna like this, and this is pretty much the last clip, except for one at the very end. Clip 28 is Dan Rather describing, and you'll see the relevance, the Kennedy assassination. They refused to show the Zabruder film. They said, "Trust us, we'll describe it for you." So you're gonna hear Dan Rather's description, where he says the third and fatal shot, Kennedy's head goes violently forward. That way Oswald could do it, because he was supposed to be behind him. And at that exact moment, his head actually goes backwards, indicating the bullet, traveling at 2,000 miles an hour, which causes the force of the head to move, was actually in the front.

• 3:21:14Speaker 05

  My point is, the most important event before the moon landing was the Kennedy assassination. And we're gonna show an example, where the evening news said the exact opposite of the truth. Go ahead and play it.

• 3:21:26Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 3:21:29Speaker 09

  In the next instant, with this time Mrs. Kennedy apparently looking on, a second shot, the third total shot, hit the president's head. He seemed to move violently forward, violently forward, violently forward.

• 3:21:50Speaker 05

  So Dan Rather just said the-

• 3:21:51Danny Jones?

  Make a note, make a note to make sure we cut that out, because we can't show that on the podcast.

• 3:21:55Speaker 05

  Or you could possibly show it on the white shot. If you show it on a screen, they can get away with it. So basically, uh, I have it on my channel without a problem. They just monetize that segment or whatever, but, uh, there you go. Dan Rather-

• 3:22:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we know the media and the government lies.

• 3:22:11Speaker 05

  He said the exact opposite of the truth. So the point is, if they're willing to kill their own president, they're not gonna have a problem faking a video image on the moon, where there's no, nobody there, and no reporters there.

• 3:22:22Danny Jones?

  I am 100% agreement with you on that.

• 3:22:25Speaker 05

  Okay, well-

• 3:22:26Danny Jones?

  Let's talk about, I'm curious about the, the, the post-flight press conference.

• 3:22:35Danny Jones?

  It seems like in that first press conference after Apollo 11 with Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, they're, they seem very cold. They seem, their demeanor seems very grim. Not what I would imagine astronauts that just walked on the moon for the first time in the history of the world. What do you make of that, Charles?

• 3:23:02Speaker 06

  I don't know which one you're talking about, but they, they brought-

• 3:23:05Danny Jones?

  The first press conference.

• 3:23:08Speaker 06

  Well, they landed, I don't know whether they were still in quarantine or not. Are you talking about quarantine?

• 3:23:12Danny Jones?

  It was after the quarantine when they went in front of the, in front of the media. Do you remember the date of that press conference?

• 3:23:17Speaker 05

  I think it was in August, like August 23rd, 1969, something around there. Yeah, everybody is astonished. To me, the window shot-

• 3:23:27Danny Jones?

  This one.

• 3:23:27Speaker 05

  -proves they didn't go to the moon, but other people are convinced by their expressions that they look like they're at their mother's funeral instead of the winning locker room of the Super Bowl, because they're lying and don't want to lie. You also see they have two teleprompters kind of hidden in their desk to prompt them what it was like to walk on the moon for the first time, even though they're the only ones in the world who should know that.

• 3:23:50Danny Jones?

  What sort of like, what sort of psychological, is there, is there any sort of psychological effect that you could use to describe why they, why their demeanor would be like this, why they wouldn't be more elated or more exuberant to describe what they just went through? Because a lot of people, this is one of the main reasons, people who question the moon landing, this is one of the main pieces of evidence they use. They, they say that these guys look like they just got brainwashed or something, or that they were just told to lie about something. But is there, is there any sort of like, because people, the astronauts have described-

• 3:24:32Danny Jones?

  Particularly this effect of coming back to Earth from outer space and seeing the the Earth, there's this this overview effect that happens where it it kind of like crosses some wires psychologically, where when you get back to Earth, it's almost like nothing will ever meet the level of intensity and excitement as walking on the moon. And maybe that could explain some of the reasons why all the astronauts, their lives just went into a downward spiral when they got home. They they became alcoholics, they divorced their wives. What do you make of that?

• 3:25:09Speaker 06

  I think it's it's hard to say. People had different reasons for leaving their wives. Going into Buzz was sort of an alcoholic. And when he left the space program, he was uh, he uh, went into a, I'd saw a downward spiral. He'd been at the top of the, the top of the list for importance. And then he got out, then he went to, ended up as

• 3:25:50Speaker 06

  commander of the test pilot school as a colonel. He was still on active duty. And then he was very upset, I don't think, I think, because he never did make general. Until recently, he was made, made general. And I think the Air Force finally rewarded him for that, if I'm saying this correctly. Anyway, some people had different emotions of, you know, my flight, though I was number 10 on the moon.

• 3:26:27Danny Jones?

  Oh, your phone's ringing.

• 3:26:32Speaker 06

  Sorry.

• 3:26:33Danny Jones?

  It's okay.

• 3:26:34Speaker 06

  My wife.

• 3:26:40Speaker 06

  I was really exuberant even when we got back. It was just, I was at number 10 on the moon and it was, it was the most incredible experience to see the moon and to drive the, not drive the rover, but ride the rover and see picking up rocks and seeing the beauty of the moon. It was thrilling and exciting and we, we wanted to, we didn't want to come back. We were having so much fun and they said, get back in you guys, it's time to come home. So we got back inside.

• 3:27:18Danny Jones?

  Do you, uh, do you recall any similar feelings? Like what, what was your, your state? Like what kind of, were you in a different state of mind? When you got back to earth for a while, were there, were there any sort of lingering psychological effects? That may, may have affected you at all?

• 3:27:37Speaker 06

  I think it was just excitement. You know, I've been, I'm on the moon, I'm on the moon.

• 3:27:43Danny Jones?

  No, I mean, when you got back.

• 3:27:44Speaker 06

  And when I got back, I had the same feelings that I've been to the moon. And it was a thrilling experience. I love to talk about it, I still do. It was not life changing, but it was a tremendous experience of, of being selected. It was an honor to be a moonwalker and you know, we just threw ourselves into it. For two years, John and I trained. We were back up on 13 and then we helped them return. And then after that, we went prime crew and it was two years later that we finally flew.

• 3:28:25Speaker 06

  And so it was a long time to get focused on that and that, and this is going to happen sooner or later. And sooner or later, you know, two years later, we landed on the moon. And it was an exuberating, exhilarating experience and awesome. You know, we didn't want to come back. You know, it was one of the, look at that rock over there, John, look at that over here. You know, it was just excitement the whole time we were on the moon. And yet it was.

• 3:29:03Speaker 06

  You had a job to do, so you had to follow the flight plan, if you will. And, uh, and with, finally you got outside and not outside, but your time to come back in. You didn't want to come back in. Oh, give me two more minutes, guys, or something like that. And, uh, but the mission control was very adamant. You got this level of oxygen and water remaining. Get back inside. So we got back inside.

• 3:29:31Danny Jones?

  So the objectives and the, the, the tasks that you guys had to accomplish when you were outside of the moon sort of overpowered the, uh, you didn't really get any sort of like moment to reflect and internalize what was happening right then and there and to like, sit back and just take in the awe of being 240,000 miles away.

• 3:29:54Speaker 06

  We were too busy for that.

• 3:29:56Danny Jones?

  Too busy.

• 3:29:56Speaker 06

  Yeah. Later on, you know, looking back at it, man, it was a tremendous experience and, uh, we wanted to stay longer. We wanted another two hours on the moon or whatever it was. And they said, get back inside, guys. Time to come home. And, uh, we were late landing, uh, because of a problem with the command module. Uh, and, um...

• 3:30:24Danny Jones?

  Why was it that Neil only ever did one, he did two talks in his entire life about the moon?

• 3:30:31Speaker 06

  He was one of the shyest guys I've ever met. And he was never, it was never, look at me, I'm the big Neil Armstrong. He was shy and reserved and never, really never took credit.

• 3:30:48Speaker 05

  One of the last things he said about traveling to the moon was perhaps someday the children of the world will be able to remove one of Truce's protective layers. The people I interviewed about him said he was the opposite of shy until he returned from the moon, his personality changed dramatically. He was the life of the party. He played the piano. He was the center of attention at all parties.

• 3:31:12Danny Jones?

  Before the, before the moon mission?

• 3:31:14Speaker 05

  And then afterwards, something in him changed. He refused to give interviews unless the president asked him to. And the last time one did Clinton, it's a clip in my movie at sibrel.com on the homepage. He says, perhaps someday to the children touring the White House, you'll be able to remove one of Truce's protective layers. And that's what we're trying to do today.

• 3:31:37Danny Jones?

  Did you notice that at all, his personality changing before and after?

• 3:31:40Speaker 05

  Uh-uh.

• 3:31:41Danny Jones?

  Nothing?

• 3:31:42Speaker 06

  He got shyer, I think. He did, I always took it that he didn't wanna, wanna take any credit for this, you know, it was, he happened to be first on the moon, but anybody could have been first on the moon, basically. And, you know, he was just scheduled to be on Apollo 11. And so they, that put him first on the moon. Buzz Aldrin wanted to swap places with him, so Buzz was the first on the moon.

• 3:32:17Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 3:32:17Speaker 06

  Yeah. But he didn't do it. And the hatch, Neil was on the left side and the hatch was underneath the computer, the instrument panel in the center, and the hatch opened towards the lunar module pilot. So the guy on that left side had to get out first.

• 3:32:37Danny Jones?

  That was it?

• 3:32:38Speaker 06

  That was it. Just the way the hatch swung open.

• 3:32:40Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 3:32:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you would just think, being the first man to walk on the moon, you would almost be pushed more into the public spotlight, you know?

• 3:32:54Speaker 06

  He was shy. He was shy. He really was.

• 3:32:58Speaker 05

  After he returned, he became shy.

• 3:33:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:33:01Speaker 06

  After what?

• 3:33:02Speaker 05

  After he returned. The people I interviewed said he was the opposite.

• 3:33:05Danny Jones?

  Beforehand?

• 3:33:06Speaker 05

  Very glorious person, life of the party, people, he played the piano, everyone surrounded him at all parties.

• 3:33:14Speaker 06

  I never remember him like that.

• 3:33:16Danny Jones?

  No.

• 3:33:19Danny Jones?

  Did you spend a lot of time with him beforehand?

• 3:33:21Speaker 06

  Hmm, he was, uh, forgot what I was involved in Apollo eight, uh, Apollo nine, no, not nine, eight, 10, 11. Okay, so I, those crews, and then I was back up on 13 and then flew on 16.

• 3:33:44Speaker 06

  So I was, uh, I got to know him and, uh, and, uh, Buzz was a different, walked to a different drum. I thought Neil was very shy, but very competent. He had a tremendous background in test pilot, uh, experience, uh, when he was at Edwards Air Force Base. And he was just really sharp. And, uh, but he was an all shucks kind of guy.

• 3:34:15Danny Jones?

  Do you think it's possible that the federal government or NASA would have, in preparation to going to the moon, in case something went wrong with like the cameras or the film or something like that, or maybe even like a catastrophic failure and you guys weren't able to make it? Do you think there's any possibility that they would have shot some sort of footage on Earth to basically show the public to boost public confidence and to, to prove, to show the world that we did go to the moon, even though we did go and we didn't have the actual evidence to show, maybe it might be better to have a backup

• 3:35:00Danny Jones?

  plan as far as the footage goes because maybe the film wouldn't survive going through the radiation or there would be some sort of problem with the cameras or something like that?

• 3:35:09Speaker 06

  That was never, never any discussion like that, that, that the astronaut office was part of. It's my part of the astronaut office.

• 3:35:18Danny Jones?

  Sure, but like, but outside of your personal experience being an astronaut with the astronauts, obviously the astronauts weren't, their number one objective was not media and documentation. But do you, outside of that, do you think there's any shred of possibility that there would have been a backup plan as far as getting some footage?

• 3:35:36Speaker 05

  On Earth?

• 3:35:38Speaker 06

  No, we, and that never entered anybody's mind.

• 3:35:41Speaker 05

  No.

• 3:35:42Speaker 06

  That I know of. I was involved in Apollo 10, the support crew. Back up on Apollo 13 and flew on 16. And it was never any discussion of, well, let's fake this. If, if, if, you know, whatever happened, we're gonna fake the landing. That discussion was never had.

• 3:36:09Speaker 05

  Let me ask you a question about that. Let's just say, use your great mind and imagination for a moment. If I'm right, let's just say, and we're in a different world where the federal government did fake the moon landing for military reasons or whatever. What do you think those reasons would have been?

• 3:36:30Speaker 06

  I can't imagine doing that except for prestige. They say face, let me put it that way.

• 3:36:37Speaker 05

  Because Kennedy said they'd go before the end of the decade.

• 3:36:39Speaker 06

  Yeah. And we made it.

• 3:36:45Danny Jones?

  With all the evidence that, with all the stuff that Bart's presented to us today, with the footage and the interviews of Von Braun and all, all the other stuff. Can you put yourself in, in somebody's shoes? Can you, could you put yourself in Bart's shoes? Or a dumb dumb like me, my shoes, who wasn't there? I'm not an astronaut. I have no experience flying any type of aircraft. Being presented with some of the stuff that Bart's showing and say, oh, there, maybe this was, maybe this was faked. Maybe this was because it was done in the Cold War. The government was constantly lying during the Cold War,

• 3:37:29Danny Jones?

  faking pretexts to get into wars, doing mind control experiments. Like, yeah, there might be a possibility that, that this was faked. If you're not yourself, if you're, if you're me or if you're Bart.

• 3:37:43Speaker 06

  I mean, you can believe anything you want. If you think it was fake, you think it was fake. But you can show the evidence it wasn't faked.

• 3:37:52Speaker 05

  Well, about that, there's an interesting scripture in Joshua. God told Israel not to make a peace treaty with any of the nations surrounding Israel. And the one that neighbored them knew that. It says, "When the inhabitants of Gibeon heard that Joshua, what he had done to Jericho and Ai, they worked craftily and went and pretended to be ambassadors from a faraway land. They took old sacks on their donkeys, the fake evidence, fake moon rocks, old wine skins that were torn and mended, and old patched sandals on their feet.

• 3:38:36Speaker 05

  They even brought bread that was deliberately moldy."

• 3:38:39Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's smart.

• 3:38:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, so they provided fake evidence, didn't they? Nothing's new under the sun. Jesus also said that there are people who claim to be Christians who are not. They come in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are wolves. And so, just because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't mean that there are. Jesus was said to have been sent to the lost people of Israel. So, everything he said was to the church at the time. And to those people, he said, "Wide is the gate to the believers, to the church. And wide is it to destruction, and most believers don't make it. The way to life is narrow, and only a few find it."

• 3:39:22Speaker 05

  And I know that when I was baptized, I was baptized based on Acts, chapter 2, which says, "Repent and be baptized." One of the people who was killed that was not shown was James Irwin. James Irwin contacted the leading investigator, Bill Casey, and he was before me, tracked him down. After Bill Casey went on Oprah and said, "The moon landings are fake", James Irwin, Apollo 15 astronaut, contacted him. And he said he had become a born-again Christian, and they needed to talk about the book he wrote about not going to the moon. He said, "I'm concerned for my safety. Please call me at this number three days from now." And on that day, James Irwin had a fatal heart attack.

• 3:40:07Speaker 05

  So, to be truly converted... You have to confess your sin. If you've been lying your whole life about the moon landing, you have to tell the truth about it. It says in Antaitus about false Christians. They claim to be of God, but in deeds they don't show it. I understand. Yeah. So, you know, that's, that's, you know, the issue here, really, it's a spiritual issue. That mankind's greatest accomplishment is named after Lucifer. It's interestingly, it's in Revelation 9:11. It says that one of the names for Lucifer in Greek is Apollo, the great liar.

• 3:40:52Speaker 05

  And what, how ironic of a fallen world that the most powerful nation on earth that claims to be the most righteous, that kills their presidents, fake wars, kill their soldiers, right? Fakes moon landing, the greatest accomplishment of man is a lie. My film starts out with the Tower of Babel. Jesus said to start a tower and to not finish it. You're calling yourself a fool. It was done to boast, to save face. We will build it to show off, is what they say in Genesis 6. Never finished. Then we show the Titanic with the headline that they put in print, "The ship that God himself could not sink." And we know what happened there.

• 3:41:34Speaker 05

  And then Richard Nixon, when you had the president of Japan and the president of Germany and France stare at the launch site, President Nixon doesn't show up because he's afraid the lie will unravel. He showed up for the next launch, once they got away with it. And he said, "Putting a man on the moon is second in greatness only to God making the universe." You see, faking the moon landing is a blasphemous thing. And in law, there's a law that says if you're in a bank robbery where homicide is committed, even though it's by one of your partners, you can be a part of that. And people were murdered. We just saw 15% of the Apollo astronauts were murdered. James Irwin was murdered. The Apollo 1 crew was murdered.

• 3:42:19Speaker 05

  Cyrus Eugene Akers said he murdered somebody. So you're a part of that too, in some way. Had you come forward- Wait a minute, how did, how did- How many percent of the Apollo crews were murdered? Well, they had, they had quote fatal accidents all within a 24 month period. 15% of the Apollo crew and backup crews. And so if you had a McDonald's. Go through those incidences. Well, you could, you could play the clip again or remind it. They showed, they showed the pictures of the astronauts. Now, if I was, you know, a owner of a McDonald's and 15% of my employees had fatal accidents within 24 months, I think the homicide police will be all over the place.

• 3:43:03Speaker 05

  And then the leading critic, Barron, he wrote a report to give to Congress about how they were a decade or more away from going to the moon instead of two years. The report disappeared and he was found dead on a train crossing after he had received death threats. That was an old CIA trick for getting rid of forensic evidence before they had DNA testing. They kill them, put them on the train tracks and it destroys all the evidence. So not only did they fake the moon landing, the federal government is using our salaries, a third of them, to deceive us and to pay the salaries of CIA agents who are killing our brothers and sisters who are trying to expose the moon landing fraud.

• 3:43:48Speaker 05

  So all of the moon landings were faked? You said 20, when you walked in here, you remembered a conversation we had word for word 20 years ago, and you, and you know that I'm the one who said we didn't go to the moon, and yet you've said at least 10 times since we've been here, you're surprised that that's what I'm saying, when Danny made it perfectly clear. I didn't remember that conversation. You quoted me word for word. Well, anyway, I don't remember quoting you that, that we did not land on the moon. You said that I called you up and said, I have irrefutable proof that we didn't go to the moon. Danny called you up and said, you're going to debate somebody who thinks we didn't go to the moon.

• 3:44:29Speaker 05

  And yet 10 times you've acted like you're surprised. You're just acting. And I'm sorry, there's no Nazi war criminal who ever turned himself in, they act like a benevolent grandfather when they're guilty. None of them have confessed, none of them came forward, and they're still guilty. And you're the same way. Buzz Aldrin said accidentally one too many times, he didn't go to the moon. He was asked a few years ago, "Why have we not been back?" He says, "Because we didn't go." And if we didn't go, we need to know why. And now that he's tripping over his tongue, they bring you out instead. Since I did Joe Rogan, so many people are being converted

• 3:45:14Speaker 05

  to the truth. And you're here to put out fires. Because if I climbed Mount Everest, and some guy wanted to debate me, I would not waste my time. You're here to put out all these fires of all these people saying it'll take multiple fuel trips to reach it to the moon. Multiple people saying the radiation belts are dangerous, and the technology to go through them hasn't been invented yet. The truth is coming out. What would happen? If the truth came out, it would be a big embarrassment for the United States government, and embarrassment for you and all of the other surviving Apollo astronauts who have built their reputations, hired as CEOs of companies for a lie. And that's the way

• 3:45:57Speaker 05

  that it is. We live in a fallen world, and people are expected to believe you on face value because you claimed to be a Christian, when Jesus himself said, "The majority of people who claim they're Christian are not saved." So if you were truly converted, you would repent. But you're not. So-

• 3:46:14Speaker 06

  Repent of what?

• 3:46:15Speaker 05

  Of your lie, your lifelong lie.

• 3:46:17Speaker 06

  Of going to the moon?

• 3:46:19Speaker 05

  Obviously. So, anyway, I have one last clip-

• 3:46:24Speaker 06

  So, wait a minute. Wait a minute. You're saying that nobody landed on the moon?

• 3:46:27Speaker 05

  You know that. I don't know why you're asking this. Surprise.

• 3:46:30Danny Jones?

  That's what he says. Okay. So where did all the moon rocks come from?

• 3:46:34Speaker 05

  You've asked that four times. And we've already covered that.

• 3:46:37Danny Jones?

  Okay, Bart, real quick. You said that 15% of the astronauts died within 24 months?

• 3:46:42Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 3:46:43Danny Jones?

  Of Apollo 1?

• 3:46:44Speaker 05

  Well, of, uh, prior to the Apollo program, prior to the first launch to the moon.

• 3:46:49Danny Jones?

  Oh, they died prior to the first launch?

• 3:46:51Speaker 05

  Correct. People, in my opinion, who would not cooperate with the fraud, like Gus Grissom.

• 3:46:55Danny Jones?

  So how, so how, well, would we ask the internet, we can say, "How many Apollo astronauts died from, died, period, before Apollo 1?"

• 3:47:05Speaker 05

  That was research done by Fox News, and the program Conspiracy Theory, "Did We Land on the Moon?" You can only see it at sibrel.com. It's one of the clips available.

• 3:47:16Danny Jones?

  Within, this says 24 months after, Steve, you would have to type in, uh, how many of the Apollo era astronauts died in accidents?

• 3:47:25Speaker 05

  Well, I'm quoting Fox News.

• 3:47:26Danny Jones?

  I understand that, but I wanna, I wanna, alright, I wanna corroborate it with ChatGPT. I wanna ask, how many Apollo astronauts died in accidents? Before Apollo 1? 3.

• 3:47:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, Fox News says there's more than that. They're including the backup crews as well.

• 3:47:46Danny Jones?

  Okay, well, how, how many Apollo astronauts and crew members, or anybody involved in the Apollo program died before Apollo 1?

• 3:47:56Speaker 05

  Again, that's Fox News. We have Betty Grissom and Scott Grissom.

• 3:48:01Danny Jones?

  ChatGPT is better than Fox News, it should be able to pull up the evidence, right?

• 3:48:04Speaker 05

  Well, again, how does it know Lincoln was the 16th president? It was programmed to say so. So it's not completely reliable. What is reliable is Betty Grissom and Scott Grissom, who told me he was Gus Grissom, their husband and father, was gonna be the first man on the moon. He was a whistleblower at NASA to such a degree that he got Secret Service protection up until the day of his death. And they both say he was murdered by the CIA. So why is the CIA killing Apollo astronauts? Right? Who are whistleblowers at NASA? That's not my opinion, that's the opinion of the dead man's relatives. Right? And then we have Cyrus Eugene Akers, who was there, eyewitnessing the faking of the moon landing in 1968, who says he killed a coworker to cover it up.

• 3:48:47Danny Jones?

  Okay, so he was a security guy working at an air force base?

• 3:48:49Speaker 05

  The chief of security at the base.

• 3:48:50Danny Jones?

  And you're including him in the 15%?

• 3:48:52Speaker 05

  No. Uh-uh. I guess you'd have to add that to it. They're talking about Apollo astronauts and backup crews.

• 3:48:59Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:49:00Speaker 05

  I'm sure they know how to count.

• 3:49:01Danny Jones?

  How can we find this Fox, this Fox thing online?

• 3:49:03Speaker 05

  It's on my website on sibrel.com.

• 3:49:05Danny Jones?

  How can we find it off of your website?

• 3:49:07Speaker 05

  It's not available anymore.

• 3:49:08Danny Jones?

  It's not available anywhere offside your, off your web, okay.

• 3:49:11Speaker 05

  Yeah. So again, I think Fox News knows how to count and divide on a computer. If they said it's 15%, I'm pretty sure it's 15%.

• 3:49:19Danny Jones?

  So, and I think you've said this before, if we did fake it, if we faked Apollo 11, why wouldn't they just say, okay, we went to the moon?

• 3:49:32Danny Jones?

  Wash our hands of it. Why would we fake it five more times?

• 3:49:35Speaker 05

  Because the government is greedy. My first military source who told me the missions were fake, said it's all about the money. Two hundred and fifty billion dollars in today's dollars to go to the moon, when they only achieved earth orbit. That means they can keep about seventy-five percent of that. Tens of billions of dollars, I guess what is, you know, twenty-five percent of two hundred and fifty billion, that's what they spent and they kept seventy-five percent of it for who knows what, to go into Cambodia. Congress said you can't use funding to go into Cambodia. We know they did. Where did that money come from? The Apollo program. Just like now, they said you can't give technology to China, but they're doing it anyway. They're breaking their own laws, according to someone who

• 3:50:20Speaker 05

  works in the command center of the Chinese Space Agency. So if you believe in God, pray for the truth to come out. I pray for you. I have no animosity toward you at all. I might have done the same thing, under your circumstances. I regularly pray for the astronauts, and I think it'd be great if one of them came forward. The problem that the general is facing is there are more than one person alive associated with the Apollo program. If only one person claimed to have walked on the moon solo, they probably would have told the truth by now. But if he confesses, he's ruining the lives of other people.

• 3:50:58Speaker 06

  Well, why would I lie that I walked on the moon?

• 3:51:02Speaker 05

  For a number of reasons. Because Kennedy made the boast, and it couldn't be done, and to save face. Plus, it embezzled, you know, a couple of hundred billion dollars, and the federal government already proved their arrogance. That's why, you know, it just dawned on me that they went six times. They faked it six times. That's how arrogant the federal government is. They killed their own president, according to the dead man's relatives. They faked the beginning of a war that killed fifty-eight thousand of their own people. And they're ruthless.

• 3:51:33Danny Jones?

  Bart, what about the lunar reconnaissance orbiter that corroborated the landing sites?

• 3:51:38Speaker 05

  Well, that's a NASA lunar recon- you're asking the Fox to provide evidence that it didn't steal the chicken.

• 3:51:45Danny Jones?

  Stephen, I sent you something about the lunar reconnaissance orbiter?

• 3:51:48Speaker 06

  It was Lunar LRO is a University of Arizona, as I understand it.

• 3:51:55Danny Jones?

  Right. I was I was under the impression that it has nothing to do with NASA, that it was corroborated by another agency out of Germany.

• 3:52:04Speaker 12

  Is this it?

• 3:52:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:52:08Danny Jones?

  Play this.

• 3:52:11Danny Jones?

  No, another everyday shout out to everyday astronaut.

• 3:52:13Speaker 00

  The lunar reconnaissance orbiter was launched in 2009 and began mapping the surface of the moon as close as 35 kilometers from the surface. And guess what they found on the surface of the moon? That's right, the Apollo lunar landing sites. Well, actually, it's captured every human made objects, including Soviet lunar cotter rovers and crash sites and all sorts of incredible images. And these images have so much detail. You can clearly see the lunar lander descent stage. You can see footprints and rover tracks. But what's really cool about these images from the lunar reconnaissance orbiter is you can compare these 21st century photos to video and images taken during liftoff from the moon of these missions. And you can literally align them and confirm that they're identical.

• 3:52:57Speaker 00

  Let's take the liftoff of Apollo 16, for example. It has great contrast and it's easy to see lots of detail as it ascends. Its pitch over maneuver also shows the descent stage and some footprints as well. So we can overlay an image shot from the lunar reconnaissance orbiter and compare them. And look, they're identical. Nothing has changed since there's no wind or atmosphere to disrupt the lunar soil. I just absolutely love.

• 3:53:22Danny Jones?

  How did they do that?

• 3:53:23Speaker 05

  Well, they faked the picture, duh. I mean, they already have a full body picture of Neil Armstrong or Buzz Aldrin allegedly standing on the moon that was filmed in Cannon Air Force Space. So what is it to fake a little, a little shadow or whatever and claim it went to the moon? Most of these things, a pixel is 30 feet across. One pixel is 30 feet across in these pictures. So they have crystal clear pictures of a guy standing on the moon. Again, we're asking for the fox to provide evidence that he didn't steal a chicken.

• 3:53:54Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 3:53:55Speaker 05

  What is the?

• 3:54:03Danny Jones?

  Charlie, is there, uh, is there anything else that you would like to say, uh, to people, to my audience, to Bart's audience that are on the fence about this and that think that, you know, some of Bart's points could be compelling, who aren't convinced we went to the moon? What is your...

• 3:54:19Speaker 06

  I think the evidence is overwhelming. We went to the moon. There's 600 pounds of moon rocks. They're totally different with the, uh, radiation history and things like that. There's pictures like LRO showing my rover, showing the descent stage on the moon, the footprints. Uh, there is, uh, uh, uh, other, other evidence such as that, uh, you know, but there's a lot of things that, uh, prove that we went to the moon. And, uh, I would, uh, to me, the evidence is overwhelming that we really did go to

• 3:55:04Speaker 06

  the moon. We landed six times. And, uh, the, the, I think the photographs, uh, prove it all. And that, uh, if, if you're gonna fake something, do it once and shut up. We kept going.

• 3:55:20Speaker 05

  That's right, to make money from the taxpayers and the arrogance of the federal government.

• 3:55:26Speaker 06

  We didn't make, nobody made any money. NASA had a budget.

• 3:55:29Speaker 05

  $250 billion is a lot of money, and if you only do Earth orbit, you keep a lot of that.

• 3:55:34Speaker 06

  Well, the CIA has a big budget, so everybody, State Department has a big budget.

• 3:55:42Speaker 05

  According to scientific methodology, a preposterous claim like cold fusion has to be independently duplicated. No nation on earth, including the United States, is able to repeat the moon landing. That's, I mean, that's like saying, we did cold fusion, but for some reason, we can't do it 50 years later. We destroyed the technology.

• 3:56:05Speaker 06

  We did six, we did six landings.

• 3:56:08Speaker 05

  Well, you claim to have made six landings.

• 3:56:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:56:11Speaker 05

  Okay. Money, money, money.

• 3:56:15Speaker 05

  Right?

• 3:56:15Speaker 06

  So, so.

• 3:56:15Speaker 05

  One third of our labor.

• 3:56:17Speaker 06

  I'm sorry. The rocks that we collected were different than the rocks that Neil Armstrong collected.

• 3:56:23Danny Jones?

  We should get those rocks in here and analyze them with an expert.

• 3:56:26Speaker 05

  Well, you'd get arrested by the FBI like that seventy-five-year-old woman.

• 3:56:29Danny Jones?

  Bart, is there anything that would possibly convince you that we did go to the moon?

• 3:56:35Speaker 05

  Well, I used to believe it.

• 3:56:36Danny Jones?

  I'm saying, no, no, no, I know you did. I know you used to believe it, but I'm saying, is there any new evidence? Anyone could hypo- use your imagination? Is there any evidence that anyone could bring here to convince you that we did go and that your life's work has been futile?

• 3:56:51Speaker 05

  Well, if you can put me on a rocket that they can't even build fifty years later.

• 3:56:55Danny Jones?

  So even if he brought in?

• 3:56:56Speaker 05

  And go to the, and send me to the moon.

• 3:56:58Speaker 06

  Wait a minute, we're building it, Artemis.

• 3:57:00Speaker 05

  Well, you postpone returning to the moon in ten times. Presidents have said they're going to return to the moon in five years. Ten times.

• 3:57:07Speaker 06

  I haven't heard that.

• 3:57:08Speaker 05

  And they're, and yet they can't, they can't do it.

• 3:57:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah, since, since at least Clinton, right?

• 3:57:12Speaker 05

  Put me on a rocket that can go to the moon. I'll pick the Apollo eleven landing site. You know, there is a probe from an independent company that was going to land there and verify, and NASA forbid it. So send me to the moon, send me to the Apollo eleven landing site. If I see the lunar lander there, I'll publicly say we didn't go to the moon. I've proved I've had an open mind. I went from being the biggest fan, worshiping a shrine in my house of Apollo eleven pictures, to being open-minded and then gradually realizing they did indeed fake it. I mean, a guy who builds rockets for NASA told me they faked it. And so I didn't want to believe it.

• 3:57:54Speaker 05

  I found that footage of them faking being halfway to the moon, and I had to admit it. They did fake it. That's why they can only go one thousandth the distance today. That's why they can't go through the radiation belt. That's why they need the equivalent of thirty Saturn V rockets to have that fuel to leave Earth orbit. It all falls into place. What we have is no independent press coverage, the word of two people who have top-secret clearance and photographs that have our Been clearly faked. We have an eyewitness who saw them film it at Cannon Air Force Base, June 1st, 2nd, and 3rd of 1968, even confessing to killing somebody to cover it up. So if they're willing to fake a full body picture, a little shadow of footprints or lunar

• 3:58:39Speaker 05

  module, I don't think they're gonna have a problem with that. And to tell you the truth, looking at it as a professional cinematographer, it looks like that lunar module was pasted on there. And that's just me.

• 3:58:50Speaker 06

  Well, I don't know whether they sent everybody else, but they sent me to the moon. I'll stand by that.

• 3:58:57Danny Jones?

  I love it, Charlie. Well, hey, man, thank you so much for doing this. This has been a fascinating discussion. I learned a lot. Bart, thank you for your time and for making this happen. And I'm really looking forward to seeing how the public takes this and they will decide what they want to believe. But thank you, guys. This has been

• 3:59:18Speaker 06

  A pleasure.

• 3:59:19Danny Jones?

  very fun. And bartcybrel.com, people can find you there.

• 3:59:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, it'll be in the link of the description of this video.

• 3:59:26Danny Jones?

  Oh, it will.

• 3:59:26Speaker 05

  Get all the, well, you did last time. That's what you said. That's what you told me you would. And anyway, it has all the video clips there. They can look at them. I may upload separately all the clips that we've done here and just label them debate clip one through 30.

• 3:59:42Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:59:43Speaker 05

  Let people decide for themselves.

• 3:59:45Danny Jones?

  Okay. Charlie, is there any way people can get in touch with you if they want to?

• 3:59:49Speaker 06

  CharlieDuke.com.

• 3:59:50Danny Jones?

  CharlieDuke.com. Okay.

• 3:59:52Speaker 05

  And Sibrel.com, S-I-B-R-E-L.

• 3:59:55Danny Jones?

  And CharlieDuke.com and Sibrel.com, both linked down below for folks. Thank you guys again. That was very fun.

• 4:00:00Speaker 06

  It's a pleasure. Thank you very much. Very interesting discussion.

• 4:00:03Danny Jones?

  Very interesting. Good night, everybody.