Ep. 622: MeatEater Radio Live! Steve's Back

Welcome to MeatEater Radio Live! Join Steve Rinella and the rest of the crew as they go LIVE from MeatEater HQ every Thursday at 11am MT! They’ll have segments, call-in guests, and real-time interaction with the audience. You can watch the stream on the MeatEater Podcast Network YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork, or catch the audio version of the show on Fridays. Today's episode is hosted by Steve Rinella https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella/?hl=en, Brody Henderson https://www.instagram.com/brodyjhenderson/, Randall Williams https://www.instagram.com/randall__williams/, and Phil Taylor https://www.instagram.com/philtaylor25/?hl=en. Guests: John Koprowski https://www.uwyo.edu/haub/about-us/people/koprowski-john.html (aka The Squirrel Doc) mammalogist, Dean and Professor of the Haub School of Environment & Natural Resources at the University of Wyoming https://www.uwyo.edu/haub/, Gaspar Perricone, Co-Chair of Colorado’s Wildlife Deserves Better https://wildlifedeservebetter.com, and wildlife capture specialist and hunting guide Cody Fahrion. Connect with The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Speaker 01

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• 0:32Steven Rinella?

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• 1:13Steven Rinella?

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• 1:57Steven Rinella?

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• 2:11Speaker 03

  Smell us now, lady. Welcome to MeatEater Trivia. MeatEater Podcast.

• 2:33Steven Rinella?

  Welcome to Meat Eater Radio Live. It's 11 a.m. Mountain Time on Thursday, November 7th, and we're live from Meat Eater Headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. I'm your host, Steve Rinella, joined today by Brody Henderson and the version of Dr. Randall where his hair is not combed.

• 2:54Speaker 04

  I didn't realize it was that.

• 2:56Steven Rinella?

  It's his boating.

• 2:56Speaker 04

  Prominent.

• 2:57Steven Rinella?

  His boating version. On today's show, we're interviewing the squirrel, the former Meat Eater Podcast alum. Can you be a former alum?

• 3:06Speaker 04

  Former, I think it's just alum.

• 3:07Steven Rinella?

  It's so just, it's sort of implied, right?

• 3:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's redundant.

• 3:09Steven Rinella?

  You can't be a future alum.

• 3:12Steven Rinella?

  Maybe you can.

• 3:13Speaker 04

  We'll sort this out.

• 3:16Steven Rinella?

  We're interviewing Meat Eater Podcast alum, the squirrel doc, John Koprowski, a mammalogist and biologist at the University of Wyoming. Then we're going to go over and hit another installment of Tattoos I Regret, which I fear is going to be overly vicious, followed by a Rutt Report from Yanni's Tree Stand in Wisconsin, where Yanni is currently sitting right now. Then we'll highlight, here's the thing, we're going to highlight a political defeat, and this has, this has dominated the news cycle since, like, CNN, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, you can't find anything that's not about this.

• 3:58Steven Rinella?

  The biggest political upset.

• 4:02Speaker 04

  Only thing everybody's talking about.

• 4:04Steven Rinella?

  In American political history, I am talking, of course, about the defeat of Proposition 127 in Colorado, which would have banned the hunting of mountain lions and bobcats, and they threw in Lynx for good measure, even though they're ESA protected. They put a ton of money into it, they, they rolled out all manner of, of faux experts, they tried to run a statewide ballot box initiative to ban mountain lion and bobcat hunting, and they got beat. Trounce. We spent a ton of time on this issue. I have been euphoric.

• 4:50Steven Rinella?

  When people saw me the next, on, on the day after the election, running around, just inexplicably pumping my fist in the air, I don't think they knew that's what it was about.

• 5:02Steven Rinella?

  I have been euphoric. As part of that celebration, we're going to talk to two more Meat Eater Podcast alum, Gasper Paracon, the co-chair of the organization Colorado's Wildlife Deserves Better. And then we're going to talk to a personal buddy of mine, a Colorado houndsman and wild cattle catcher, Cody Ferrian.

• 5:28Steven Rinella?

  Then lastly, we're going to dig into an indefensible law that ought to get passed.

• 5:36Steven Rinella?

  As a quick catch up, it was proposed to me that we talk about Randall getting a whitetail deer.

• 5:44Speaker 04

  And I did not propose it.

• 5:46Steven Rinella?

  The only noteworthy thing about it was that Randall's got many whitetail deer, but he happened to get a whitetail deer in a state other than what he had in the past.

• 5:54Speaker 04

  Uh, first whitetail buck in that state, actually, because I've killed whitetail does there too.

• 5:58Steven Rinella?

  So it got less and less interesting to me, the more I learned about it, but just suffice it to say, Randall got himself a nice whitetail buck. Like many other Americans, Randall.

• 6:12Steven Rinella?

  Many millions of other Americans.

• 6:17Steven Rinella?

  But what's more interesting to me is that Randall's wife tagged out. Tell me about that, Randall, because that interests me.

• 6:24Speaker 04

  That's actually, I mean, it's sort of a good story and not a good story at the same time. We, uh, went out for the weekend, pulled up, set up the camper, uh, got the dogs running around, poured them a bowl of water and I set up my tripod and my binos and spotted a, spotted a doe about, oh yeah.

• 6:41Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. That's good. Yeah. Keep them coming, please.

• 6:44Steven Rinella?

  Someone just wrote in that, oh, I'm sorry.

• 6:47Speaker 04

  Keep them coming. I'd like to, I'd like to know anything that comes to mind.

• 6:50Speaker 05

  For the podcast listener, someone said he looks like Daniel Stern in Home Alone Two after getting electrocuted.

• 6:54Speaker 04

  I'm kind of getting the ancient aliens guy vibe, too.

• 6:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 6:57Steven Rinella?

  So to back up, there you are. You've got the water, the dogs, all that kind of stuff.

• 7:02Speaker 04

  And set up my bipod or my tripod with my binos, just scanning around, seeing what's up and down the valley. And about 1,500 yards behind camp, I see a doe. And I watched her for five minutes or so to see if there are any other deer. And sure enough, a buck came sneaking in and we put our boots on, through the crocs in the trailer, and scampered up a little beaut and she shot him. And then we went down, got the dogs, went back up, packed them out.

• 7:33Steven Rinella?

  Excellent.

• 7:33Speaker 04

  But it was nice.

• 7:34Steven Rinella?

  Did you still camp there?

• 7:35Speaker 04

  We did. We camped there that night and then went up to the bar and we went to the bar. We had service and we got a text that my buddy had killed a bull. So the next day we packed up the camper and went and helped him pack out his bull.

• 7:47Steven Rinella?

  Awesome.

• 7:47Speaker 04

  And then camped again. Dogs had a good weekend. I did too.

• 7:51Steven Rinella?

  It's good. That sounds like a great little weekend.

• 7:52Speaker 04

  It was, we saw a lot of, a lot of country, a lot of critters.

• 7:55Steven Rinella?

  Did your wife take your name?

• 7:57Speaker 04

  She did.

• 7:58Steven Rinella?

  My wife's been, she's kicking around again, weirdly, in another effort to lead me along. Has been musing lately on getting around to finally changing her name after 16 years of marriage.

• 8:09Speaker 04

  Sydney said she would not do it again, only because of the bureaucratic headache.

• 8:14Steven Rinella?

  Is she gonna undo it?

• 8:15Speaker 04

  No, no, no. It's just the actual act of changing it was the hurdle for her.

• 8:19Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, the Mrs., my lovely, beautiful wife said, I'll do it when my passport expires, because that seems like a pain. And then I've been waiting 16 years. I don't know how many passport renewals we've been through. And she says, and then the other day, she was like, you know, maybe I will change it. And then I told my daughter, if she, she can, but you don't. Trying to build up.

• 8:40Speaker 04

  Have you gotten more sore about it over the years?

• 8:42Steven Rinella?

  I get sore and sore all the time. And now I look very hypocritical because I told my wife, or I told my daughter, don't change your name.

• 8:49Speaker 04

  We actually thought about both changing our names to my mother's maiden name, which is just cool.

• 8:55Steven Rinella?

  It's cool?

• 8:56Speaker 04

  Moltu. It's Norwegian.

• 8:58Steven Rinella?

  I thought, man, that was cool.

• 8:59Speaker 04

  But then I didn't want to go through the hassle of all that and explain it to people.

• 9:02Steven Rinella?

  Uh, Brody, you just did a woodcock hunt in Pennsylvania. That's pretty exciting. Did you bring me one?

• 9:06Speaker 06

  I did. We ate them all. They're pretty small.

• 9:09Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 9:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, we were back in the, the, I was back in my old stomping grounds at Penn State for the tailgate tour.

• 9:15Steven Rinella?

  Yep.

• 9:16Speaker 06

  And, uh, it was great. It was so much fun. Like, we hit the migration, right? Like, they were just everywhere. And we had a good, very good bird dog. Lot of shooting, lot of missing. And, uh, it was cool. When we were kids, when I was a kid, the only time I ever shot at a woodcock was when I was hunting something else. Like, we didn't target them. So this is like, the first time it was like, we're after woodcock, and we got into them. It was cool.

• 9:41Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. When you hit the migration, it's awesome.

• 9:43Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 9:43Speaker 04

  I saw, I saw a clip from that, and it was impressive shooting.

• 9:47Speaker 06

  Yeah. Well, what you saw.

• 9:49Speaker 04

  I saw the highlight, I guess.

• 9:50Speaker 06

  There's a lot of unimpressive shooting involved, too.

• 9:53Steven Rinella?

  My main, my main update, uh, we went coyote colony the other day, which was fun. We did good. And then me and my little boy, my little boy had a buddy at school that wanted, that had like, asked him about getting jerky.

• 10:06Steven Rinella?

  So we made, for the first time in my life, I made the ground meat jerky, which I've always been skeptical. Cause like, why would you grind it? And then, you know what I mean?

• 10:17Speaker 04

  Right.

• 10:18Steven Rinella?

  It's like, why go through all the hassle? We made ground meat jerky, checked around for recipes from friends, and made jerky. But this, I had cut with about 20% fat.

• 10:30Steven Rinella?

  That is some, when you remove all the moisture and the fat doesn't go anywhere, it is some greasy jerky.

• 10:39Steven Rinella?

  Not the best, but I've hit on something. My next batch is gonna be revolutionary.

• 10:45Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 10:45Steven Rinella?

  Because I am gonna do it again, and I'm gonna grind in a bunch of dried cherries.

• 10:52Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 10:52Steven Rinella?

  And I am gonna make.

• 10:54Speaker 04

  Pemican style.

• 10:54Steven Rinella?

  Yes.

• 10:55Speaker 06

  Are you gonna go, you should do it with burger that doesn't have fat cut into it, maybe?

• 10:59Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 11:00Speaker 06

  No?

• 11:00Steven Rinella?

  Cause then it wouldn't be pemican. I am gonna reinvent. I am, I am in the process of reinventing old school pemican. Just wait and watch.

• 11:13Steven Rinella?

  Joining us.

• 11:16Speaker 05

  Really quick before our next segment, uh, don't forget to write in questions for their listener feedback halfway through the show, end of the show. This is Steve's here. Got a question for Steve. Put it in the live chat.

• 11:26Steven Rinella?

  Oh, and I did launch the new big thing. How are we doing on time? We good?

• 11:30Speaker 05

  Oh, great.

• 11:30Steven Rinella?

  There's a thing we're launching. It's called.

• 11:34Speaker 04

  As of seven minutes ago.

• 11:35Steven Rinella?

  No, I thought about it last night in bed.

• 11:37Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 11:39Steven Rinella?

  Well, I thought about two days ago, then I, then I quit thinking, I'll explain the whole thing.

• 11:42Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 11:43Steven Rinella?

  Making this jerky got me thinking about a great jerky, a jerky contest. It's gonna be called Meat Eaters Best GD. It's gosh darn.

• 11:50Speaker 05

  Of course.

• 11:51Steven Rinella?

  Meat Eaters Best GD Jerky Tournament. I thought everybody will send in jerky and then on live we'll rate it. And then we'll put together a huge prize package for who wins. But then I got to thinking, am I really gonna eat jerky that shows up in the mail? So then I abandoned the idea. Then it hit me.

• 12:15Steven Rinella?

  You come here

• 12:18Steven Rinella?

  and present your jerky.

• 12:22Steven Rinella?

  I watch you eat it. And then I know it's okay for me to eat it. Then we eat the jerky and raid it in front of you.

• 12:32Steven Rinella?

  And we'll do, let's say 10 contestants over the course of a year. And we'll put together a mega prize package. You're responsible for getting yourself here. You come in, you join the show, you present your jerky, your jerky gets raided, we crown a champion at the end of 2025. Meat Eaters Best GD Jerky Tournament 2025. That person gets a huge prize package.

• 12:57Speaker 06

  There's some details that need to be sorted out.

• 12:59Steven Rinella?

  I got them all in my head.

• 13:00Speaker 06

  No, you don't. What if, what if, what if you run into two, like, people are here at two different times, but.

• 13:06Steven Rinella?

  They, they get scheduled.

• 13:07Speaker 06

  They're both, yeah, I'm saying like you, you rate one, it's the best jerky you've ever had.

• 13:12Steven Rinella?

  You can't, okay.

• 13:14Speaker 06

  It's, you scored a 9.5.

• 13:16Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 13:16Speaker 06

  Later in the tournament, someone also scores a 9.5.

• 13:20Speaker 04

  But you can't go back and revisit the first one to get a good comparative.

• 13:23Steven Rinella?

  I'll have him leave a piece. Because I already know.

• 13:27Speaker 04

  He does have all the details.

• 13:28Steven Rinella?

  Because I already know it's not been poisoned.

• 13:31Speaker 06

  I mean, couldn't we just have?

• 13:32Steven Rinella?

  Send in your email. Current, where do they send in? To get this started.

• 13:39Speaker 07

  I would say, oh man, it's either meat eater at the meat eater dot com or radio at the meat eater dot com.

• 13:46Steven Rinella?

  Radio.

• 13:47Speaker 07

  Yeah, radio. Let's do radio.

• 13:49Steven Rinella?

  Send in, rate, send in your proposal, your pitch.

• 13:55Steven Rinella?

  To radio at the meat eater dot com.

• 13:59Speaker 07

  But title it.

• 14:00Steven Rinella?

  Subject line, Meat Eaters Best GD Jerky Tournament. Twenty-five with a little apostrophe.

• 14:08Speaker 06

  You should reiterate, don't send jerky here.

• 14:11Steven Rinella?

  This is not where you send jerky. This is where you say, I have a great jerky recipe. I would like to come in, um, and present. We will accept ten.

• 14:22Speaker 05

  Spencer's in the chat. Uh, he, he wants people to send jerky in the mail.

• 14:25Steven Rinella?

  I don't because I do, but I don't because I don't want to get poisoned.

• 14:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:29Speaker 06

  Would they just have a tester, like a, like a monarch in the olden days?

• 14:34Steven Rinella?

  I guess I could have my kids eat it and then bring it down.

• 14:36Speaker 05

  Or chili.

• 14:37Speaker 06

  Yes, we just need to find.

• 14:40Speaker 06

  Also, we just, like, somebody could just send you some, uh, Old Trapper or something. You'd be like, God, that's some good jerky.

• 14:47Steven Rinella?

  That's why they're going to come and present.

• 14:48Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 14:48Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm. Okay. Uh, Meat Eaters Best GD Jerky Tournament twenty-five. We're going to pick our ten favorite people. You gotta get yourself here. You come in, you present your jerky. We're going to put together a mega package. It's going to include stuff hanging on the walls in here. Furs.

• 15:05Speaker 06

  Stuff out in the entryway.

• 15:06Steven Rinella?

  We'll get meat processing equipment. I don't know. We got a, you can have a can of, we got a big spin drift.

• 15:15Steven Rinella?

  Not an official sponsor, but there's some out there. Well, it'll be a great prize package.

• 15:19Speaker 05

  No free ads.

• 15:21Steven Rinella?

  Joining us on the line is, uh, John Koprowski, the mammalogist biologist and dean of the Hobbs School of Environment and Natural Resources at the University of Wyoming, former Meat Eater podcast guest. He was on going way back in the vault, episode two, five, nine, which was titled, The Squirrel Doctor Is In. Uh, what weirdly, what prompted this is a thing we're not going to talk about.

• 15:49Speaker 07

  Exactly.

• 15:52Steven Rinella?

  But we're still, I've been really into this world, this word lately, which is an apophysis.

• 15:59Steven Rinella?

  Okay, an apophysis is when you're fighting with someone and you bring something up by saying you're not going to bring it up. So you're in a fight with your wife and you go, "And I'm not even going to talk about what happened on Friday." That'd be more like something my wife would say to me, "I'm in a fight with my wife." My wife says, "And I'm not even going to talk about what happened on Friday." That's an apophysis. She's talking about it by saying she's not going to talk about it. "We're not going to talk about Peanut the squirrel."

• 16:30Steven Rinella?

  Who's, who's euthanization by New York's Department of Environmental Conservation has made international news. This one up getting embroiled in the presidential election. The left and the right are both up in arms about it over Peanut, but again, we are not going to talk about Peanut the squirrel. Rather, rather, we're going to talk about a handful of squirrel things. We're going to lead off, John, with how in the hell, how in the world have 50 new squirrel species been discovered in the past decade?

• 17:12Steven Rinella?

  And is this the kind of thing where they were discovered? Or did we already know about them and then realized they were a teensy bit different than other squirrels we knew about?

• 17:24Speaker 05

  Well, thanks so much, Steve. Great to be here. We will not mention Peanut. Rest in peace. And I, I, I'm a bit miffed right now. I just want to say, I thought I was coming on for the regretful tattoo segment.

• 17:40Speaker 06

  We can jump to that.

• 17:41Speaker 05

  I'm willing to give it. Let's do it. When we think about squirrels and diversity, last time we talked about 280 species that are recognized, we're about 325 right now. And it's a little of both. Some of these are, you know, as we get to genetic techniques and people are Looking a little more closely or they're looking at the calls of different species realizing that the something we previously lumped in as a single species might be split a bit. And that's that accounts for about half of those new squirrels. And then there really are some new squirrels that are are completely new to science that are

• 18:24Speaker 05

  are being described. Some really cool giant flying squirrels about the size of a garbage can lid.

• 18:33Steven Rinella?

  What?

• 18:33Speaker 05

  Himalayas, for instance.

• 18:34Steven Rinella?

  No way, really? See, that's what I was talking about. See, I was I was I was like shit talking you earlier.

• 18:42Speaker 05

  You always do.

• 18:43Steven Rinella?

  I was like, love the guy, love the guy, but he's gonna give us a bunch of stuff about them realizing there's all these different pine squirrels that they didn't realize that they thought were the same thing. But now we're on to something. New, okay, like legit stuff that we didn't know about. That that's that's exciting to hear.

• 19:00Speaker 05

  Yep, exactly. And and I still geek out over the, you know, subdividing of things that we already knew. But quite seriously, these are species that in one case, one was found in a market in Southeast Asia. And that's what prompted people to say, what is this? They went up in the mountains, found another um, found a brand new species.

• 19:24Steven Rinella?

  The the the large Himalayan flying squirrel, is it a is it of is it a like a very small population? And so it's not widely known? Or is it a like a big widespread thriving population of these squirrels?

• 19:39Speaker 05

  It's it's probably fairly widespread. Because it's relatively new, folks are just starting to get the sense of how widespread they are. But when you think of the Himalayas, you know, like many mountain tops here in the Rockies, you get these sky islands and often kind of left behind on those are some species that were left behind in the recession of the glaciers in the last ice age. The Himalayas are, you know, obviously a very prominent.

• 20:11Speaker 05

  Mid range of mountains and not much work has gone on there and they've got species that actually live in cracks, um, in crevices there and they glide between cliffs and then feed on the few trees that are there. So these are species that are about tree line in many cases.

• 20:29Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 20:29Speaker 05

  And so, um, when we're, when we're looking at them, we know that they, most of their three species that have been very recently described and all of them, um, there have been multiple individuals reported. I just this morning got a, a camera trap, um, photo from, uh, Nepal where they said, hey, we've got another one and it's a little bit of a range extension probably, uh, and that kind of thing. So we're just learning and that's what's so fun about this, you know, and, and any of us who are interested in, in biodiversity and interested in wildlife, something like squirrels, you think you know everything about,

• 21:11Speaker 05

  we find out there's all kinds of neat stuff going on that we had no idea.

• 21:15Steven Rinella?

  Corinne had mentioned that, that she had spoken with you about a, a flying squirrel that can fluoresce.

• 21:23Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 21:24Steven Rinella?

  Wha- what's up with this?

• 21:25Speaker 05

  So these are the common flying squirrels that you'll see throughout North America. Uh oh, hope he hops back in here. And they actually fluoresce under black light, under UV light and they have like blue ears, uh, pink stripes on them. Uh, a professor in Wisconsin was out with a black light, uh, a UV light kind of spotlighting one evening and something flew, um, across his field of vision in the light and it was pink and blue and it turns out that a number of species that we have absolutely no idea why, um, fluoresce and it's not just kind

• 22:10Speaker 05

  of a single color that you think, ah, that's something that's probably not all that meaningful. They actually fluoresce with multiple colors in different parts of the body with a pattern. So tells you something funky's going on and, and we've actually learned recently, last decade or two, that a lot of birds do the same thing. The colors that we see very different than the colors that birds see, um, when they're, uh, because they're able to. Detect things in that UV, um, those UV wavelengths. So all kinds of crazy stuff going on. It's why I stay with squirrels.

• 22:45Steven Rinella?

  You know, uh, years ago I had a conversation with a turkey biologist named Robert Abernathy. And we were talking about the fluorescent qualities of, or sorry, not, not fluorescent qualities of turkey feathers. And he was speculating, we, we don't really know that perhaps a, a turkey to another, like a turkey experiences the appearance of another turkey in a way that humans do not.

• 23:12Steven Rinella?

  Meaning it might be just this bright thing that just pops out, right? And when you look at it, you see a drab bird. When they look at it, they're like, ta-da, you know, a turkey, right?

• 23:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. And, and when you think of things that are predators of turkeys, they're things that don't see kind of in that, that visual spectrum. And so they're able to convey messages to other birds, um, uh, possible mates, maybe it's something related to territoriality, but you know, what kind of condition they're in and other species may not be able to pick those things up quite as well. So, um, you know, but these things are, when you see patterns like that, they're very likely adaptations, right? That just, you know, help them in the, you know, survival of the fittest battle.

• 24:04Steven Rinella?

  Now, John, we do a thing on, on the show and, and our network called a rut report where we get into, um, whitetail, the whitetail deer rut calendar, the, the breeding cycle calendar. Um, I understand that the squirrel rut is coming up next month. My friend, uh, Kevin Murphy, who, uh, I like to call him the world's greatest small game hunter, has described to me finding what he calls a rut tree where he catches a squirrel rut activity going on and he can, and he'll talk about seeing seven or eight males chasing after a single female. I have here in front of me that you've been, you've seen rut trees

• 24:46Steven Rinella?

  containing 30 to 40 males in pursuit of a female.

• 24:53Steven Rinella?

  That's like a bar and acreage.

• 24:54Speaker 04

  It's a long, long odds there.

• 24:56Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 24:57Speaker 05

  Uh, well, exactly. And it's all because most squirrels are the.

• 25:03Speaker 03

  Females are only in heat for about half a day.

• 25:06Steven Rinella?

  Really?

• 25:07Speaker 03

  That is, that is your chance. And, and because squirrels have an incredible sense of smell, we know, you know, a lot of tree squirrels, that's how they're in part relocating nuts that they buried. Uh, that's a lot of their social behaviors is tied to picking up scent. Fruiting trees, like a walnut tree that's in fruit, they pick that up by scent. They pick up females who, uh, about five days before they're, uh, five days before they go in, uh, into estrus. And, uh, the day of, there are often dozens of males waiting outside the female's, um, nest cavity in the tree or, or when those leaf nests, those drays.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  And so I've seen up to forty-five males chasing a single female. Long day for everyone involved there, I'm guessing.

• 25:58Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, man.

• 26:00Speaker 04

  Some more exciting day.

• 26:02Steven Rinella?

  Can you do me a favor? I don't want to bring, uh, you know, I hope no one else is listening to this idea. So I want to keep it to my own. Can you get me some squirrel and heat urine?

• 26:17Steven Rinella?

  Has anyone thought to dip a cotton ball in that and then just peg it up on a tree? And then just sit and, and hunt?

• 26:25Speaker 03

  So it's actually not, it doesn't appear to be in urine.

• 26:28Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 26:29Speaker 03

  You have to, you have to swipe the private parts of the female. Um, and that's, that's where it's exuded from. So.

• 26:36Speaker 04

  That's a tougher ask.

• 26:37Steven Rinella?

  See, everything, everything gets a name.

• 26:42Steven Rinella?

  And you got a half day to do it.

• 26:44Speaker 03

  That's right. Yep. So you gotta be quick and convincing.

• 26:53Steven Rinella?

  Once, once again, uh, John Koprowski, joining us from the Hobbs School of Environment and Natural Resources at the University of Wyoming and, uh, want to applaud John for doing the work, um, that so many scientists, uh, just get, they just don't want to do it because it doesn't work out sometimes. He does the work of interpreting science for idiots.

• 27:23Steven Rinella?

  Thank you, John.

• 27:24Speaker 04

  Probably not how he'd phrase it.

• 27:26Steven Rinella?

  But it's how he thinks about it.

• 27:30Steven Rinella?

  And a lot of researchers just get, and I understand when they get there. They get to where they just can't bring themselves to do it anymore. But John is a great sport about coming in and talking about squirrel biology, squirrel ecology in a way that, uh, that folks at home can understand it. So when you look out a window and you could see a squirrel, you can, uh, you can look to your husband or wife and be like, did you know? Right. And tell them good stuff about squirrels.

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• 28:28Steven Rinella?

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• 29:11Steven Rinella?

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• 29:56Steven Rinella?

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• 30:14Steven Rinella?

  Thank you very much, John. I really appreciate you coming on, man. We're gonna jump into tattoos I regret. So John, drop your pants. I'm joking. He's not, he's not joining us. He's not, he's not the tattoo holder, but he can stay on the line if he wants to see about the tattoos I regret. These are good ones. So this came in.

• 30:32Speaker 05

  We've got to do the sound drop that everyone hates. I've made a huge mistake. Apparently there's no Arrested Development fans here at the office.

• 30:38Steven Rinella?

  Oh, I like that. Yeah. Yeah, that, that's not your best work.

• 30:41Speaker 05

  I'll, I'll replace it next time we do this segment.

• 30:43Speaker 07

  I liked it.

• 30:45Steven Rinella?

  This one comes in from Northwest Arkansas. Which doesn't surprise me.

• 30:51Speaker 05

  No. I thought that was very predictable.

• 30:53Speaker 06

  Not even a little bit.

• 30:56Steven Rinella?

  Okay. He, the, the tattoo holder. That's not even the good one, Phil.

• 31:03Speaker 05

  Oh, which one are we looking at?

• 31:04Speaker 06

  Both.

• 31:05Speaker 05

  I'm looking at the first one.

• 31:06Steven Rinella?

  These are on the same guy, right?

• 31:08Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. We can show the, the other one next. I just want to talk about this.

• 31:11Steven Rinella?

  Oh, we'll do it one at a time.

• 31:12Speaker 07

  Yeah. Read the email and then describe what you think.

• 31:14Steven Rinella?

  I'm a hunter from Northwest Arkansas. I like, he's, he's very careful word choice he uses. I wouldn't say I regret my tattoos. I got the duck life one at 18 and I'm 29 now. I got the goose one a couple of months ago. I would picture that it would be the opposite.

• 31:36Speaker 06

  Hmm. Oh, no.

• 31:37Speaker 05

  No.

• 31:38Steven Rinella?

  To me, it looks like you'd have got that goose when he was three.

• 31:43Steven Rinella?

  And then got the

• 31:44Speaker 06

  We can't talk about the goose until people can see it.

• 31:47Steven Rinella?

  Okay. I got the goose one a couple of months ago. Mainly my arm is a joke to my duck hunting buddies now. Oh, well, hope y'all like it.

• 31:55Speaker 06

  That's the best part I like. I like that the most because he just seems resigned to his fate. You know, he's just like.

• 32:01Speaker 04

  I think the duck life one is trying too hard.

• 32:04Speaker 05

  This one is genuinely bad. Here's the goose one. I love it.

• 32:07Speaker 04

  I love it.

• 32:07Speaker 05

  This is incredible.

• 32:08Speaker 04

  T-shirt. I've got a T-shirt with that on.

• 32:10Speaker 07

  The goose is like wearing socks.

• 32:11Steven Rinella?

  For people that can't, that aren't seeing what we're talking about. Duck life has got three puddle ducks, three mallards, whatever. Oh, three ducks. I don't know what the hell they are.

• 32:18Speaker 06

  Cuffed up.

• 32:19Steven Rinella?

  Cuffed up, feed out, coming into land. I need, it's like a little pattern of three ducks. On one side it says duck. On the other side it says life coming together to make duck life. What I, okay, then to jump the other one, the other one is a silhouette of a Canada goose who's got like seven feathers.

• 32:37Speaker 06

  Looks like it was drawn by a small child.

• 32:39Steven Rinella?

  He's got eight feathers. And it says, you're honking for a bonkin'.

• 32:48Steven Rinella?

  I love that one.

• 32:49Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, it's great.

• 32:50Steven Rinella?

  What I like about duck life.

• 32:52Speaker 07

  It's wearing booties.

• 32:53Steven Rinella?

  Is duck life is versatile because if he gets where he stops hunting ducks and just gets generally burned out on life.

• 33:01Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 33:02Steven Rinella?

  He just needs to have the D turned to an F.

• 33:04Speaker 04

  Yep, yep. I had the same thought.

• 33:06Steven Rinella?

  And then he's got a whole new tattoo with a whole new meaning. And it's like getting two tattoos for the price of one.

• 33:13Speaker 06

  Or if he gets really into whitetail hunting, he could go buck life and rework those.

• 33:17Speaker 05

  Buck life would be easier.

• 33:19Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, just every week, every week, draw a little line with a sharpie and it's buck life.

• 33:24Speaker 05

  I would say that the font choice is, is not what you want. I don't like this font at all.

• 33:30Steven Rinella?

  Or he could become a spokesman for buck knives. And have it be buck knife.

• 33:34Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 33:35Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 33:36Steven Rinella?

  So

• 33:38Steven Rinella?

  that tattoo has versatility.

• 33:40Speaker 07

  It's also huge.

• 33:41Steven Rinella?

  You're honking for a bonkin'.

• 33:47Steven Rinella?

  I don't know.

• 33:48Speaker 06

  I need to know. I need to know more.

• 33:50Speaker 05

  I like it if it's like high stepping. It's putting its foot forward.

• 33:53Steven Rinella?

  No, I think that he, I think that

• 33:58Steven Rinella?

  the goose isn't honking.

• 34:01Steven Rinella?

  I think he's saying to the geese, geese in general. When they come and they honk and he's hunting and they're honking, he's saying he's thinking to himself,

• 34:11Steven Rinella?

  you're honking for a bonk.

• 34:12Speaker 04

  So he's addressing the goose there. I took that as, I took that as the goose to be addressing the, the viewer of the tattoo.

• 34:21Steven Rinella?

  I hadn't thought of that. Because the goose is saying to his, some guy in the bar, some guy in the bar is talking a bunch of whatever.

• 34:29Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 34:29Steven Rinella?

  They're arguing about a turtle soup recipe, which is, I bring that up only because Johnny Paycheck shot a man, literally shot a man in the head in an argument about a turtle soup.

• 34:38Speaker 06

  Fled the scene afterwards, didn't he?

• 34:40Steven Rinella?

  Fled the scene.

• 34:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 34:42Steven Rinella?

  Kind of missed, creased his head. Anyways, they're in a fight about a turtle soup recipe, for instance. He holds up his arm to the guy he's fighting with. The guy sees the arm and he's like, oh, that's me. I'm honking for a bonk.

• 34:55Speaker 06

  It doesn't inspire a lot of fear, though.

• 34:57Steven Rinella?

  And then the guy also, his last thought before catching the fist, his last thought is, but why is there a goose on there?

• 35:04Speaker 04

  This is, this is one of those facts I forget about myself for three or four years at a time. But when I was three,

• 35:12Speaker 04

  a goose broke my toe.

• 35:14Speaker 06

  They can be mean.

• 35:15Speaker 04

  I know. So that's, like, he might think, oh, yeah, goose can be mean.

• 35:20Steven Rinella?

  He's telling you.

• 35:20Speaker 04

  When the fist comes.

• 35:21Speaker 06

  I took it to mean that he knocked one down in some grain field and needed to go out there and bonk it.

• 35:27Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 35:30Speaker 06

  Who knows?

• 35:31Steven Rinella?

  Only the tattoo artist.

• 35:32Speaker 04

  Art is all the eye of the beholder.

• 35:34Steven Rinella?

  No one knows.

• 35:36Speaker 05

  We have multiple people in the chat saying that if we put the goose one on merch, they would buy multiple copies.

• 35:42Steven Rinella?

  Honking for a bonk.

• 35:42Speaker 05

  Honking for a bonk. People love it. People say it's elite. They want, they want it on shirts.

• 35:47Steven Rinella?

  It's elite?

• 35:47Speaker 05

  It's elitist?

• 35:49Speaker 04

  No. No, no, it's just, it's high level.

• 35:51Speaker 05

  This is, this is just a Gen Z lingo.

• 35:53Speaker 04

  Oh, I got you. Yeah, I like that.

• 35:55Steven Rinella?

  I recently got a good lecture on Gen Z, but they didn't talk about that one, that, that lingo. Here's the next one. Now this next one, Randall, do you mind grabbing the painting?

• 36:04Speaker 04

  I'd love to, actually.

• 36:05Steven Rinella?

  One of my favorite pieces of artwork of all time is from Clay Newcomb. He drew it when he was a teenager, and it's a future spaceman.

• 36:14Speaker 06

  Did you see that, Phil?

• 36:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, pointed at this camera. Yeah, there we go.

• 36:17Steven Rinella?

  It's a future spaceman.

• 36:21Steven Rinella?

  You know what's funny? Clay was telling, we were moose hunting, and Clay was telling me about what he used to like to draw. He liked to draw like future spacemen, but he also liked to draw wild hogs. So here a wild, a big, huge boar is charging a future spaceman who's fixing to gun it down.

• 36:36Speaker 06

  If that's a spaceman, why, why has he got like a

• 36:40Speaker 05

  A super

• 36:41Speaker 06

  King Arthur armor on?

• 36:42Steven Rinella?

  I don't know, but there's a lot of questions. Clay then called his mom and said, with me, I was with him. He called his mom, hey, you know that picture I drew of the? She's like, oh, yeah. And had it.

• 36:56Steven Rinella?

  So now we have it framed in the office. We got a tattoo of someone basically having a sort of truncated, more contained such scene. His note is, when I was 18, I wanted to get my first tattoo. And being an avid bird hunter at the time and shooting a Browning shotgun, there was only one logical idea. The Browning Buckmark.

• 37:21Steven Rinella?

  I made an appointment. I got digressed for a second. I used to work with a guy when I worked for my buddy Ronnie. I worked with a guy that was preparing to get the Bacardi bat tattooed on.

• 37:33Speaker 06

  I've seen that one before.

• 37:35Steven Rinella?

  His brother once said a sentence to me that I'll never forget. His brother said to me, you know, when you're drinking Bacardi so fast, you get the red splotches on your neck?

• 37:50Steven Rinella?

  Tobacco. When I was 18, I wanted to get my first tattoo and being an avid bird hunter at the time and shooting a Browning shotgun, there was only one logical idea, the Browning Buckmark.

• 38:00Steven Rinella?

  I made an appointment with my brother's longtime tattoo artist and got the tattoo on the upper portion of my left arm. Since then, the Browning Buckmark has become synonymous with red neckery and overall douchebaggery. I've regretted that tattoo for almost 20 years. See, I didn't know that the Browning mark was a widespread tattoo.

• 38:24Speaker 06

  Amongst a certain segment of the population.

• 38:26Steven Rinella?

  I've regretted that too. I've regretted that tattoo for almost 20 years. I finally decided to get a cover up. So I could once again be proud to show my upper arm. I have one more session on the cover up. The Nordic. The Nordic god Friar. Is that how he says it?

• 38:46Speaker 06

  Frayer?

• 38:46Steven Rinella?

  Frayer.

• 38:47Speaker 04

  It's Frayer.

• 38:49Steven Rinella?

  Oh, this is interesting. The Nordic god Frayer, from which my last name is derived. Pictures included. Love the podcast and the other podcasts on the network. Keep it up.

• 39:02Steven Rinella?

  And it is a Nordic god. Similar in style. To Clay's future spaceman. But more decidedly period. It's not a confusing period.

• 39:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:16Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 39:16Steven Rinella?

  He's carrying a broadsword that comes up to his navel.

• 39:21Speaker 06

  He's got a pig.

• 39:22Steven Rinella?

  And he has. Sort of, I gather, with him?

• 39:28Speaker 06

  Yeah, it doesn't seem to be an adversarial relationship.

• 39:31Speaker 04

  Well, that's not any old pig. That's Gullenburstie, the golden mained pig created by the Sons of Ivaldi, the famous dwarf craftsman.

• 39:40Steven Rinella?

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 39:41Speaker 06

  So they're buddies.

• 39:42Speaker 04

  Frayer rides Gullenburstie into battle. Interestingly enough.

• 39:47Steven Rinella?

  That's his battle hog?

• 39:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, interestingly enough, the Sons of Ivaldi also made for Frayer. Skeedblenir, the famous ship that always has a favorable breeze and can be folded together and carried in a pouch when not in use.

• 40:00Steven Rinella?

  How do you know all that?

• 40:01Speaker 04

  Looked it up.

• 40:02Steven Rinella?

  Oh. Here's the problem. I don't want to hack on him because here's the deal. I think where he's, when he talks about the tattoo he regrets, he's talking about the one that was hiding under there.

• 40:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 40:15Steven Rinella?

  So just to, I don't want to hack on this one because I, because. You know? Could spoil the relationship we have.

• 40:21Speaker 04

  This is the after. This is the glow up.

• 40:23Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, so I'm gonna say like. I'm gonna say this. I'm gonna say, um. Good lord, I like that tattoo.

• 40:31Speaker 06

  I don't think there's anything to regret about that one. He put a lot of thought into that one.

• 40:35Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, and I like that hog in the background. But I mean, come on, tusks, those are big tusks.

• 40:40Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 40:41Steven Rinella?

  My old man killed a hog in Arkansas. And when he got the hog stuffed, uh, I'm gonna get this hog and bring it home to me someday. When he got the hog stuffed, he did that thing they used to do where you barely, you know when you pull the tusks out?

• 40:56Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:57Steven Rinella?

  But then you glue them back in when you're all done?

• 40:59Speaker 06

  Oh, he's just-

• 41:00Steven Rinella?

  Barely stick it in there and glue it. So all the root, right, like most, like three, two thirds of the tusk doesn't stick above the gum line.

• 41:08Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:09Steven Rinella?

  But you fill it full of hot glue and just barely stick the tusk in there and it looks like some apparition from hell.

• 41:14Speaker 06

  Get a couple of extra inches out of that tusk.

• 41:17Steven Rinella?

  So this thing's got these tusks, you're like, it looks like a war hog.

• 41:19Speaker 04

  It's like when my skull caps fall off the shelf and I have to epoxy them back together and I wang the antlers out another two or three inches.

• 41:27Steven Rinella?

  Hold them up, give it another inch of height and hold them out.

• 41:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, for sure.

• 41:32Steven Rinella?

  All right, fantastic tattoo. If you could ever do me the favor of taking a picture of that tattoo, what's this gentleman's name? Russ. Russ, if you could do me a picture and send it to us, take a picture of your tattoo and then go in and highlight where the old tattoo is hiding.

• 41:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:50Steven Rinella?

  That would be very interesting.

• 41:52Speaker 05

  But that makes it a pretty good cover up because we can't tell.

• 41:54Steven Rinella?

  Oh, you, I don't know it's a cover up.

• 41:55Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:56Steven Rinella?

  And like when that guy gets, uh, you know, F life, I don't know that I'll think it's a cover up either. I wonder why it had ducks in it.

• 42:02Speaker 05

  Yeah. The ducks are just, they're taking off for greener pastures.

• 42:06Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, the ducks are leaving life.

• 42:07Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 42:08Steven Rinella?

  Going to the afterlife. Uh, we're gonna cut now to a rut report from Yanni, uh, the Lavian Lover, the Lavian Eagle, Yanni Chumani. Just Yanni, Yanis, Janis. Uh, in Louisiana, they can't, the Cajuns cannot say Yanis.

• 42:27Speaker 07

  What do they call them?

• 42:28Steven Rinella?

  They can't. The Cajuns had to eventually arrive at that he is just Jay. It doesn't work.

• 42:38Steven Rinella?

  There's something about being a Cajun that makes it that not only can you not remember it, you can't say it.

• 42:46Steven Rinella?

  They'd be like, you know, we all have our own challenges.

• 42:50Speaker 05

  This is actually a double rut report. We've got Mark Kenyon first and then Yannis.

• 42:54Steven Rinella?

  Oh, I'm sorry.

• 42:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, double the content, but before that.

• 43:18Speaker 05

  What a gift. Thank you. Here's the rut report.

• 43:22Speaker 04

  Hey guys, Mark Kenyon here with Wired to Hunt and I'm coming at you with the rut report for November 7th. And I'm here hunting in Kentucky, just kicked off a hunt and the whitetail rut should be on. Now, I haven't seen sign of it yet myself, but all reports I'm hearing from across the country are that does are coming into heat, bucks are chasing, bucks are cruising. It's on. November 7th is the day that a lot of folks claim to be maybe the very best day of the entire whitetail rut. And this next week or so should be absolutely lights out for almost the entire country. There are some places down in the south that have slightly different rutting dates, but for most folks listening, this is it. This is the Super Bowl. Use your vacation time. Use up the brownie points in the bank. Whatever

• 44:06Speaker 04

  you need to do to be in the tree, do it. Now, an important thing to note, for large parts of the country right now, we are seeing warmer than average temperatures and there's definitely some rain going on too. So, less than ideal conditions, but you need to know that despite these conditions that maybe aren't great, the rut is still happening and good action is out there to be had. The midday might be a little bit slower, but be in a tree. Be in the key rut spots. Downwind to doe bedding areas, pinch points, funnels. Tree time is key. So, do not let the bad weather keep you home. This is it. Anything is possible. Time in the tree. Time in the tree. Time in the tree. Good luck out there.

• 44:50Steven Rinella?

  Glad he included that.

• 44:52Speaker 04

  November.

• 44:53Steven Rinella?

  I started over. I got so distracted by Yanni clearing his nose that I missed the part of the rut report.

• 44:58Speaker 05

  Okay, let's hear it again. Hold on.

• 45:02Steven Rinella?

  Do people know that it's live mostly?

• 45:05Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:07Steven Rinella?

  Because this isn't live. We just started it over again.

• 45:10Speaker 05

  Well, the pre-recorded videos are certainly not live.

• 45:13Steven Rinella?

  But this should be a disclaimer.

• 45:14Speaker 05

  I don't think that's necessary.

• 45:15Steven Rinella?

  The shit you're about to hear is not live.

• 45:16Speaker 05

  Saturday Night Live has lots of pre-recorded videos.

• 45:18Steven Rinella?

  It's a great point.

• 45:19Speaker 05

  Anyway.

• 45:20Steven Rinella?

  Here's Yanni live.

• 45:23Speaker 04

  Time in the tree.

• 45:24Steven Rinella?

  Time in the tree.

• 45:25Speaker 04

  Good luck out there. Glad we got that mantra again.

• 45:29Speaker 04

  Here's Yanni's rut report for November 6th.

• 45:36Speaker 04

  First off, what you need to know is that I picked the wrong spot today.

• 45:42Speaker 04

  I sat in

• 45:46Speaker 04

  that tree right behind me for six hours this morning and did not see a single deer.

• 45:55Speaker 04

  Beautiful morning here in central Wisconsin. It started off at about 40 degrees. It's now 50. The wind's blowing five to 10 out of the north northwest.

• 46:09Speaker 04

  I mean, really just a prime, prime morning for the rut.

• 46:14Speaker 04

  So although I didn't see any rutting myself, I'm 100% sure that there's some rutting going on somewhere not too far from me.

• 46:25Speaker 04

  I hunted a ridge top today to be in the woods and have a good spot for this north wind.

• 46:33Speaker 04

  Just picked the wrong one. I just didn't have the right buck come down that ridge behind me right there. Um, or that one right there. So anyways, I'm changing spots right now. I'm gonna go uh, hunt on a very small ridge. It's very close to uh, the neighbors fields. Um, where we've had fifteen to twenty does every single evening. And um, I think there's been some bucks out there too, but uh, we've got picker pictures of the big bucks. Um, a couple of them daylighting. Um, the cameras have been slow the last two days because it's been raining. It's been wet, wet, wet, wet, wet.

• 47:16Speaker 04

  Um, now it's dried out. The temp has dropped ten to fifteen degrees. Um, so the next two, the next two, three days should be phenomenal. And um, so my plan is for the evening and probably most evenings is to get down closer to the food, which is going to be closer to the does, which is going to bring me a big buck encounter. So hopefully that'll happen. Maybe next week I can give you a little bit more of an exciting rut report. To all of you out there sitting or about to be sitting. Good luck. Stick to it. It's gonna happen any moment. Peace.

• 47:56Steven Rinella?

  Oh, sweet. Thank you, Yanni.

• 48:00Steven Rinella?

  I, I made the really stupid mistake one day of looking at um, Yanni had some post on, on Instagram and I was looking at the comments and this woman's like freaking out on him because he's gonna, him talking, he's got family property in Wisconsin. Him talking about that's gonna make everybody in Wisconsin, everybody start hunting Wisconsin. What's this? What's this strange fiftieth state I'm hearing about? What is it? Wis? Yeah. Uh, okay, we're gonna jump over now

• 48:31Steven Rinella?

  to our interview around, again, I was

• 48:35Steven Rinella?

  what Corinne put a whole tattoo over the whole thing. I couldn't see what was going on.

• 48:41Steven Rinella?

  I haven't touched the document. Let's take a break. I'm reading. Let's take a break for some listener feedback, Phil.

• 48:49Speaker 05

  Let's do it. Okay, this one seems time sensitive. It came in a while ago, but average human guy is asking, hey, everyone, sitting in my ground blind for a buck, thinking of going to pull a card from my camera down the drainage after the pod. Should I hold off in fear of scent or go check once? What would you do?

• 49:05Steven Rinella?

  There's too many, I can't, there's too many variables. I can't say. Does he got to walk right past the spot anyway?

• 49:09Speaker 05

  That's true.

• 49:10Steven Rinella?

  Is it like, I can't, I don't know.

• 49:13Speaker 04

  Do it.

• 49:14Speaker 06

  I wouldn't do it. If that's where you're expecting to see a buck, stay out of there.

• 49:19Speaker 05

  There you are. Eric's asking Steve to clarify your turkey tattoo. You've talked about it a couple of times in the past, but I wonder if you've come to any sort of realization.

• 49:26Steven Rinella?

  I want to do it. It's like, what I like is that, I like that me and my wife are the last couple in America to have no tattoo.

• 49:33Speaker 06

  Me and my wife don't have them either. Sorry.

• 49:35Steven Rinella?

  Second to last. So, uh, I wanted to get, and I stole this idea. I want to get the outline of North America tattooed and then either, either get the spots, little turkey feet tattooed on there where I killed my, you know, I'm a two-time super slam holder. Where I killed my super slams or just put turkey feet everywhere I've ever gotten any turkey at all.

• 50:08Speaker 06

  I like that better.

• 50:10Steven Rinella?

  My wife thinks it's a terrible idea. I know in the back of my head, it's a terrible idea and I might do what Pat Durkin did. Pat Durkin has a lot of tattoos now. He waited till he was so old that he knew he wouldn't live long enough to regret them.

• 50:27Speaker 06

  And

• 50:28Steven Rinella?

  Then he get, that's it. That was his plan.

• 50:29Speaker 06

  And when you get like, get tattoos when you're young and then you get old, those tattoos start to look a little different as you age.

• 50:36Steven Rinella?

  But if I got it fresh now, I still might, like, let's say I live to be 80. I still might have to live 20 years wishing I hadn't done that.

• 50:46Speaker 06

  Right.

• 50:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:47Speaker 06

  I think if you're gonna do it, go big, do your whole back.

• 50:50Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 50:51Speaker 04

  I mean, if you go with the every turkey you've killed, I feel like you'd have to have a pretty sizable map so that you could.

• 50:57Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 50:58Steven Rinella?

  There's gonna be hot, there's gonna be what would look like hot spots.

• 51:00Speaker 04

  Maybe, maybe you put like a bigger track where you've killed more than, more than six.

• 51:06Speaker 05

  Uh, John's asking about tips on how to get kids more involved in butchering and processing.

• 51:11Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I got huge tips on this. Randall has none. Brody's got hot tips.

• 51:18Steven Rinella?

  My, I got my kids started in that kind of stuff so young. That they never had a realization that it was anything unusual. Like, they just have always been involved, always done it. There was never a moment where they're like,

• 51:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 51:36Steven Rinella?

  What is that? They can't remember, they don't remember ever not helping gut stuff.

• 51:41Speaker 06

  If you wait-

• 51:41Steven Rinella?

  They would grab, and I could hand them anything.

• 51:44Speaker 06

  If you wait too long, they'll start thinking it's gross. But when they're little, they're super interested in all that stuff.

• 51:49Steven Rinella?

  I could take anything in the, any bloody thing on the planet, be like, hold that, my kids are gonna grab it.

• 51:54Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 51:55Steven Rinella?

  And on food. I could serve them cat, house cat. They have just always, we've always made them just eat stuff, and now, we don't have to hear about it. Start young.

• 52:08Speaker 06

  Yeah, and get them involved with, uh, like, like, the, the turning it into food kind of thing, like, making burger, making sausage, that, like, my kids love doing that. So, like, take it, like, don't just stop at the gutting, like, go the whole thing.

• 52:25Steven Rinella?

  Yep. I remember my kids, like, little jobs I would give my kids, is they, I would, if I'm grinding meat, I, and I, you know, very careful, like, not joking, very careful about them, their hands around a grinder, so, bear with me. Give them the job of taking the cubed up meat out of the tote, or out of the tub, putting it in the, um, pan. Give them the job of turning the hand crank on the sausage stuffer. Give them the job of putting stuff in the bag. The other day, I had my kid, we were bagging up some stuff, uh, we were bagging, well, the jerky we made, we were bagging up the jerky we made. My kid was in charge of hitting the button on the vac sealer. Like, little jobs. Um, make it fun.

• 53:10Steven Rinella?

  Don't make it go on for like nine hours, get them involved, they know the stuff, and just the key is starting them young. And you'll never have to go through any of that weird stuff when they, when they freak out.

• 53:24Speaker 05

  Awesome. Let's do one more. The show's running long, but we're all having a good time. So we'll tackle some more of these at the end of the show, depending on what time it is. We've got some guests on the line waiting to come on.

• 53:32Steven Rinella?

  Doing one right now or not running?

• 53:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, we'll do one more right now. Steve, did you hear about Lana Del Rey marrying an alligator guy?

• 53:40Steven Rinella?

  My neighbor told me about that.

• 53:43Steven Rinella?

  But no, I haven't looked it up yet.

• 53:45Speaker 05

  Well, when both, when Spencer and I heard the news, both of us thought about you and how you're feeling about this. Cause it seems like, it's like a you type character and she was into him enough to marry him. So I just wondering how you're feeling about it.

• 53:57Steven Rinella?

  So you're, you're suggesting that I would, um, you're suggesting that I would be looking like, that I would be have a feeling of jealousy?

• 54:06Speaker 05

  Your wife suggested that as well.

• 54:08Steven Rinella?

  She did?

• 54:08Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 54:10Steven Rinella?

  No, no, no one, I'll just say this, and I've told my neighbor this, nobody,

• 54:19Steven Rinella?

  nobody understands her music properly. Except me. That's all I'm gonna say on the whole subject.

• 54:27Speaker 05

  All right, we can move on.

• 54:28Steven Rinella?

  No one understands it. I will someday write a book, after I write my book about how it's okay to hate Shakespeare, I will write a book about, um, um, I'll write a book about what, what is going on in those lyrics.

• 54:42Speaker 05

  Excited to read it.

• 54:43Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I'm excited to write it.

• 54:45Speaker 01

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• 56:23Steven Rinella?

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• 57:01Steven Rinella?

  To continue our giant gloat about Proposition 127, we're going to talk really quickly to Gasper Paracone, and we're going to go talk to a houndsman, who, one guy that really helped drive and win this fight, and one guy that would have been really screwed had this fight not gone the way it did. So we're taking a two-pronged approach to it. Welcome, Gasper.

• 57:28Speaker 04

  Welcome, gentlemen.

• 57:30Steven Rinella?

  Tell me, what do you think was the key, man? Like, what wound up, what wound up happening?

• 57:35Speaker 04

  Well, I got to start by saying this is the only show in America that I think can segue from the swapping of squirrel privates to honking for a bonkin to house cat cuisine to maybe the most consequential political outcome on a state-based ballot.

• 57:49Steven Rinella?

  Nimble show.

• 57:51Speaker 04

  Love it.

• 57:52Steven Rinella?

  It's elastic.

• 57:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, look, obviously a monumental achievement for both the Defense of and the promotion of science-based wildlife management in this country. And I, I think a very clear validation of the role that Hunter Harvest plays in this. Plus, you know, look, let's take a quick moment to just revel in the fact that we sent for the first time in Colorado, the anti-hunting community packing on a, on a political measure. So, uh, you know, it just a, a real surprising and tremendous outcome. And, um, you know, to your question, Steve, you know, what, what was the difference here? Uh, let's dive into the numbers and then I'll leave you with my takeaways. But look, we're, we're, you know, uh, obviously, uh, a huge victory.

• 58:34Speaker 04

  We had forty-four point five, uh, five, three percent voting yes, with fifty-five point four, seven percent of Colorado voters, uh, coming out against proposition one twenty-seven. We won fifty-nine of sixty-four counties statewide. Um, obviously the, the urban demographic, uh, continued to vote in favor of it as we've seen in both prop, uh, one fourteen, which was the Wolf Proposition and previous ones. But we've turned the tide here in a, in a very real and meaningful way. Um, go ahead.

• 59:06Steven Rinella?

  Oh, no, what, what I was gonna say is within this, I think that what's, what I'd, what I'd like you to touch on too, and you talk about what worked is I just want to point out to listeners is there's this obvious thing where this was not, that fifty-five percent of the vote in Colorado was not coming from houndsmen. I mean, you don't have, you know, you got probably sub-one-thousand houndsmen, but it was voters, not just not voting about a thing that they felt was gonna immediately affect them individually, but coming out to vote against a dangerous trend in wildlife management. And it wasn't motivated by, um, uh, it, it wasn't motivated by deeply personal incentives.

• 59:53Speaker 04

  I think that's exactly right. And that underscores, I think, what was so unique about the way in which we approached this campaign. So, you know, I think there's three primary takeaways here. The first is, when we as a community can find cause to coalesce around a particular issue and a singular strategy, and we do it in a manner that supports a professional campaign, we as sportsmen and women can win these things. We had an awful lot of naysayers early on who bore witness to the outcomes of Prop 114 and frankly, every other ballot measure that's been put forward that's wildlife-related in Colorado. And there wasn't a lot of faith that we could pull this off, but we took a very smart and strategic approach in how we developed the campaign.

• 1:00:38Speaker 04

  Which brings me to the second takeaway that I think is probably of the greatest significance and the lesson to carry forward as we begin to continue this fight in other states. And that is, and tangential to the point that I just made, but how we engage matters. It's relatively easy to take stock of this outcome and believe that the effort to rally our troops and just fight the anti-hunting efforts is the only factor that led to this win. On the other hand, while, you know, that is certainly important, I think what is of far greater significance and the reason that we actually won is we intentionally and strategically engaged the non-hunting voting population with messages that resonated to them. We knew early on, in order to win, that we were going to have to dedicate the majority

• 1:01:22Speaker 04

  of our campaign efforts to talking to that persuasion universe. And we're talking soccer moms in Denver and Boulder who have never purchased a hunting and a fishing license. You know, when you make up 8% of the population, you can't rest on your laurels. You need to be very concerted in your effort to talk to folks and meet them where they're at with a message that means something to them in our landscape. And we were able to do that effectively. And I think that is the real core understanding and takeaway coming out of this. But the third is, these are not partisan issues. I think too, all too often, we get wrapped up in thinking this is a Democrat versus Republican fight. But, look, I mean, we outperformed 127 even by a full point over Colorado that went 54%

• 1:02:07Speaker 04

  for Harris. It's a clear demonstration that voters of all variety, Democrat, Republican, Independent, Unaffiliated, all resonated with our message and turned out even to the point where we were exceeding votes cast for President Harris in Colorado. It's just it's a remarkable outcome.

• 1:02:25Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, that's incredible. No, I gotta ask you a question. I want to be totally honest with you. And I'll be honest with you. Um, in my asking of it, I got, I, I, I privately got a little pessimistic.

• 1:02:41Steven Rinella?

  Leading up to the election. Were you surprised or did you know how this was gonna land?

• 1:02:46Speaker 04

  Um, look, this was a long fight. For those that work in this world, you always go through the roller coasters of up and downs and numbers change throughout the course of the campaign based on what, you know, voter sentiments are. Uh, it became relatively evident to us about two weeks out that we were very likely to win this. Um, we had

• 1:03:06Steven Rinella?

  That was right when I started to get pessimistic.

• 1:03:10Speaker 04

  Loop him in next time. Yeah, I mean, look, I, I think it's inherent in human voter behavior to worry, right? Um, yeah, we had, we had pretty good indication based on the data that we were collecting that we were likely to win this about a week and a half out. I will tell you, I did not anticipate an 11-point margin by any stretch of the imagination. That was surprising.

• 1:03:31Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, well, congratulations, man. Um, you were in there and I know that, you know, as you eagerly point out yourself, you were in there along with many other people on it. Uh, fantastic. You guys did a fantastic job and congratulations there and, and hopefully this will lead to a long, um, string of victories as hunters and anglers continue to need to fight against an animal rights movement that would seek to shut down our way of life. So, man, uh, hats off. Fantastic job. Thanks for coming on.

• 1:04:07Speaker 04

  Well, and I, I want to thank you guys for all that you've done. I, I do want to give a shout out to Dan Gates and Colorado's responsible wildlife management for leading the charge on this. Mark Truax, who ran the day-to-day campaign, uh, did a fantastic job. And, um, look, you, you hit the nail on the head. This fight's not over. Already this morning, Katz has come out, um, calling on the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission to take a very close and concerted look at whether we ought to continue to allow the use of hounds for lions. So, you know, this fight is, uh, I, I think, you know, Let's take a moment and pat ourselves on the back for the victory in 127, but we're a long ways from done.

• 1:04:45Steven Rinella?

  Yes, sir. All right. Thank you. And I'll take that to heart, man. Appreciate it.

• 1:04:49Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:04:50Steven Rinella?

  All right. Jumping now real quick to a friend of ours, Cody Ferrian. Cody's been on the show in the past and he was on a long time ago. We did an episode with power hitter, New York Mets power hitter Pete Alonso. And Cody was hanging out with us and we talked about Cody's business as a, he does feral cattle capture. So now and then you wind up in a situation where people got feral cattle running around, could be posing a public threat on public lands, public safety issues, habitat destruction, whatever, and you'll need to

• 1:05:30Steven Rinella?

  get these cows caught. That's Cody's business. Catch a wild cattle. He's also a land and ranch manager and does, he's a very avid lifelong houndsman and lion hunter. Welcome to the show, Cody. Thanks for coming on, man.

• 1:05:48Speaker 05

  So Cody was waiting and he disappeared a few minutes ago.

• 1:05:52Steven Rinella?

  Damn it. Oh, no.

• 1:05:53Speaker 05

  He's in the green room. We just, I just can't see him and I don't think he can hear us. So I don't know where he went.

• 1:05:58Steven Rinella?

  Oh, we lost him?

• 1:05:59Speaker 05

  We lost him. We lost Cody.

• 1:06:00Steven Rinella?

  Just, I'll tell you what I was gonna ask Cody, have we not lost him? And you guys can just make up your own question in your mind is I would have to wonder, like I've often said, and I hesitate to bring this up. I've often said that like if all of a sudden, if all of a sudden hunting became illegal for reasons that I didn't think were justified in terms of wildlife populations, would you then become like, would you become like a?

• 1:06:30Speaker 05

  An outlaw.

• 1:06:31Steven Rinella?

  An outlaw, a Robin Hood type figure. I was gonna ask Cody.

• 1:06:37Steven Rinella?

  If you're a houndsman and you have and you have hounds and your whole life you're a houndsman, you like to chase lions and all of a sudden they say you can't, do you then just go and be like, what do you do?

• 1:06:49Speaker 06

  Take your dogs for a walk in the woods?

• 1:06:51Speaker 04

  It's hard to keep a low profile as a houndsman.

• 1:06:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:06:55Steven Rinella?

  Dino.

• 1:06:56Speaker 04

  If you love to bow hunt whitetails, you could probably pull that off discreetly.

• 1:07:00Steven Rinella?

  I think I'm gonna probably take a little mosey in the woods with my bow and all that. But yeah, but it's hard to like quietly take your hounds out. I don't know what you would do. I'm not, again, I'm not here to give legal advice.

• 1:07:10Speaker 06

  The thing is, is you'd probably still be in business because they'd outlaw hunting, but then the game agency would call you to help them.

• 1:07:17Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:17Steven Rinella?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:18Speaker 06

  Nuisance cats.

• 1:07:19Steven Rinella?

  They'd be like, okay, now we gotta pay people to kill 500 lions a year. Uh, are we doing indefensible law?

• 1:07:25Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:26Steven Rinella?

  Who's got one?

• 1:07:28Speaker 06

  You want to go first, Randall? Doesn't matter to me.

• 1:07:30Speaker 04

  I'm happy to go.

• 1:07:31Speaker 06

  Do you not have one?

• 1:07:32Speaker 04

  I'm just waiting for the.

• 1:07:33Steven Rinella?

  I got a million indefensible laws.

• 1:07:37Speaker 04

  I, I mean, I was trying to think of one and, and so many of my laws I found are just purely, I mean, defensible. I have a hard time arguing.

• 1:07:46Speaker 06

  To you, they are.

• 1:07:47Speaker 04

  But in the, in, in the spirit of this week, having seen all of the, I voted, you know, make sure you get out and vote, make sure you do this and that. Uh, I was reminded of a law that I have, uh, thought about. I think about it every spring. Uh, and that is this, I wish it were illegal to publicize draw deadlines.

• 1:08:09Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:10Speaker 04

  I, every.

• 1:08:11Steven Rinella?

  Make it more of an insider's game.

• 1:08:12Speaker 04

  Every March, April, May, you see people posting like, don't forget to, to apply for moose, goat, sheep. And I think to myself, I've had those on my calendar for months now.

• 1:08:23Steven Rinella?

  That's a great point.

• 1:08:24Speaker 04

  And, um, you know, it's not that like agents, you know, the agencies would still publish the draw date. It wouldn't be a secret, but people would actually have to look up when they need to get their applications in. Cause I think if you'd forget to apply for a bighorn sheep tag, and this is where maybe it becomes a little bit of a hot take, that, uh, you shouldn't then draw one. And I'll point out too.

• 1:08:45Steven Rinella?

  That's a great point.

• 1:08:46Speaker 04

  That people, when you are looking for a job and you see a great job ad.

• 1:08:51Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:52Speaker 04

  You're like, oh, this would be a huge opportunity.

• 1:08:54Steven Rinella?

  Do you send it around?

• 1:08:55Speaker 04

  Do you post it and say, hey, guys, I found this job at?

• 1:08:57Steven Rinella?

  Look, everybody, an amazing job.

• 1:08:59Speaker 04

  And then some guy is.

• 1:09:00Steven Rinella?

  I'm gonna apply.

• 1:09:00Speaker 04

  Some guy is not looking for a job, who's maybe perfectly happy without that job, throws his resume in, and that guy gets the job. So I would just ask that, you know, it's sort of fun to advertise that you're participating in this, in this thing, you know, it's sort of like a, a, a badge of, of pride, or, or sort of identifying with your tribe by saying, hey, don't forget, I'd actually prefer that those people who have forgotten to not apply.

• 1:09:24Speaker 06

  But let's be clear, you're trying to use this law to reduce competition for yourself.

• 1:09:29Speaker 04

  Yes, and, and, and to be clear.

• 1:09:31Steven Rinella?

  And to make it more like, more of a, if you, you get it, if you deserve it, you deserve it by, remember.

• 1:09:36Speaker 06

  And it's not, I'm not, like, I love it.

• 1:09:37Speaker 04

  And I'm not trying to, this is the one way, I think, like, I'm not trying to make it harder for people to apply. I'm not trying to, like, price people out. I'm not trying to, uh, like, keep new applicants out of the pool. I'm just saying, if you can't remember to put in for those once in a lifetime tags.

• 1:09:56Speaker 06

  Put a little notice on your Google Calendar.

• 1:09:58Speaker 04

  If you can't, if, yeah, like, like, there's a bare minimum threshold.

• 1:10:01Steven Rinella?

  That's a great point. I like it. I like that law. Let's pass it. Um, and then I think we should do away with those little stickers you get with a flag on it that says, I applied.

• 1:10:09Speaker 04

  Yep, exactly.

• 1:10:10Steven Rinella?

  That's what made me think of this.

• 1:10:12Speaker 06

  You need a gavel to approve the law.

• 1:10:14Steven Rinella?

  Oh, where's your fish bonker?

• 1:10:21Steven Rinella?

  Brody's, was it your uncle's fish bonker?

• 1:10:23Speaker 06

  My dad.

• 1:10:23Steven Rinella?

  His dad's fish bonker? Uh, approved. Now,

• 1:10:29Steven Rinella?

  I want you to know, I've never done what you're saying. The only time I would ever remind someone to apply for something is if I wanted to go along if they drew it.

• 1:10:37Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:39Steven Rinella?

  Right? I only do it if it affects me.

• 1:10:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:10:41Steven Rinella?

  Uh, I thought of one that related to this whole voting comp, this whole, you're, you're tying it into, like, I voted congratulatory stickers, which Corinne was running around in, I gather. Um, I think you, this is an old idea. I think you shouldn't be able to vote. Unless you can pass a quiz that everyone, like, both sides, everyone agrees on the questions, a current events quiz.

• 1:11:08Steven Rinella?

  Get the pass the current events quiz. And if you need to opt for an oral quiz, we'll, we'll provide staff to give you an oral quiz. I don't think you should just be able to go down there and, and vote. Cause leading up to the election, I would be talking to people and they'll tell me things and I would know, I'd be like, what you're saying is just not, like, that's not a thing. You're talking about a thing that's impossible.

• 1:11:31Speaker 06

  What about like not only current events, but a little like

• 1:11:34Steven Rinella?

  American history.

• 1:11:34Speaker 06

  Basic civics.

• 1:11:36Steven Rinella?

  I think then you're going to get in trouble with people.

• 1:11:38Speaker 06

  Well.

• 1:11:38Steven Rinella?

  This is already an incendiary.

• 1:11:40Speaker 06

  I know.

• 1:11:40Steven Rinella?

  This is the definition of an indefensible law.

• 1:11:46Speaker 04

  I mean, I did have that. I had, I actually had an analog to that in my, uh, in my indefensible law, which was like, you have to identify the animal. Like if you're putting, if you're putting in for a bighorn sheep tag.

• 1:12:02Steven Rinella?

  What is a bighorn sheep?

• 1:12:03Speaker 04

  Yeah. Point like, here's three animals. Point out, cause like

• 1:12:06Speaker 06

  Perhaps even identify a legal ranch.

• 1:12:08Speaker 04

  To hunt bears. Yeah. To hunt bears in Montana, you have to be able, you have to take that online quiz. You know, this is a grizzly. This is a black bear.

• 1:12:15Steven Rinella?

  Uh, how do I unpass a law? This is not accepted because I applied for a Sambar deer tag in Florida one time and I wouldn't be able to tell you what that is. I still to this day couldn't tell you what one looks like.

• 1:12:28Speaker 04

  In the

• 1:12:28Steven Rinella?

  But I was like, if I draw it, I'll find out.

• 1:12:29Speaker 04

  In the reconciliation process, I decided to do away with that because I did think that was a barrier, maybe too far. It's just like, do you want it?

• 1:12:38Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 1:12:38Speaker 04

  You can figure out what it looks like.

• 1:12:39Steven Rinella?

  My buddy said he should put a Sambar deer on some island in Florida and I thought, oh, that sounds fun. I, I still, I don't know what the hell they look like.

• 1:12:45Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:12:46Steven Rinella?

  But, and also he reminded me, but it wasn't a public announcement. Brody, you got one?

• 1:12:50Speaker 04

  Yeah. I don't have a problem with texting your buddy.

• 1:12:51Speaker 06

  I got a big one. Catch and release fishing should be illegal.

• 1:12:55Steven Rinella?

  Oh, come on.

• 1:12:56Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:12:56Steven Rinella?

  Come on.

• 1:12:57Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:12:58Speaker 04

  100% indefensible.

• 1:13:00Steven Rinella?

  It's appropriate. It's appropriate that I approve, that I approve this with Brody's fish bonker.

• 1:13:05Speaker 06

  If any, like, if any given species of fish on any given body of water can't support a catch and keep season, there should, you shouldn't be able to fish for them at all. Like, come on, like, and like, the dudes that are like patting themselves on a back after a fifty, letting fifty fish go in a day.

• 1:13:23Steven Rinella?

  How many they kill?

• 1:13:24Speaker 06

  Exactly. And, and finally, if you were to sink a cable into the ground and attach a, a big cable snare to it, put a little noose on there and bait that, that thing with a carrot or an apple and get a deer.

• 1:13:39Steven Rinella?

  Yep.

• 1:13:39Speaker 06

  Then mess with it, take pictures of it.

• 1:13:42Steven Rinella?

  And let it go.

• 1:13:42Speaker 06

  Let it wear itself out and let it go. You get thrown in jail. Like, people don't look at fish the same way.

• 1:13:49Steven Rinella?

  You killed that buck? No, I just caught him. Exhausted him. Took a picture of him.

• 1:13:54Speaker 06

  Rode him around for a while.

• 1:13:56Speaker 04

  And I shook him around in the water for a minute and he's good.

• 1:14:00Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, and like, well, I kinda had to like resuscitate him a little bit.

• 1:14:04Speaker 06

  Yeah. Not sure if he lived.

• 1:14:06Steven Rinella?

  I breathed into his nostrils. I mean, he kind of limped off.

• 1:14:09Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yeah, man.

• 1:14:10Steven Rinella?

  I had to push him two or three times.

• 1:14:13Speaker 06

  But it's like fish, fish just, they'd get, they'd get treated poor horribly.

• 1:14:18Steven Rinella?

  Cause they don't have eyelashes.

• 1:14:19Speaker 06

  You know, you'd have to make.

• 1:14:20Steven Rinella?

  If they had eyelashes, you wouldn't be able to do that to them. Or souls.

• 1:14:23Speaker 06

  You'd have, you know.

• 1:14:25Steven Rinella?

  Either or.

• 1:14:26Speaker 06

  You'd have to make some exceptions and let people go, let, you know, if it's like an unintentional bycatch of a fish, you're not supposed to be fishing for it. But yeah, man, it should be illegal.

• 1:14:34Steven Rinella?

  All right, Phil, here's one last listener feedback deal.

• 1:14:37Speaker 05

  We've got your buddy Cody in right now. It's, uh, he's kinda popping in and out, but let's, let's give it a shot here. Hold on one sec.

• 1:14:42Steven Rinella?

  Holy cow, he's back. Cody Ferrian.

• 1:14:44Speaker 06

  Hey, what up?

• 1:14:46Steven Rinella?

  Listen, oh, there he is.

• 1:14:49Steven Rinella?

  Cody, I want to ask you a question. I don't want you to, I don't want you to admit that you would become a vigilante. What in the world, as, as a lifelong houndsman, lifelong lion hunter, you got, I don't know how many dogs, right? You got, you've got livestock, you got horses, you got dogs, you got the whole infrastructure, you spent your whole life doing this, you always look forward to the winter. All of a sudden, the, the, they come and say, hey, we had a vote and you're not allowed to do that anymore. What in the hell would you do?

• 1:15:22Speaker 06

  Be pretty tough to take, right? It would almost take, uh, an honest person. And turn him into an outlaw for sure.

• 1:15:30Steven Rinella?

  Civil disobedience.

• 1:15:32Speaker 06

  Allegedly.

• 1:15:35Steven Rinella?

  Uh, how are you feeling that day, man? Was that the thing you was that the part of the election you were watching most most sort of uh most hotly, most personally?

• 1:15:44Speaker 06

  I was in the top two for sure, but um. Yeah, I was kind of real pessimistic there at the end of it, but uh we had so many good people pulling for us and I think education was kind of what what really in the end pulled through, just like Mr. Gasper was saying that there was a lot of people that voted for the wealth of the animal, you know, just not for uh because they were educated in the fact that they knew to do the right thing. So I it worked out good for sure, but there is still what two million uh uneducated people that we're gonna have to to enlighten on why we still need hunting and use the North American model to do so and and yeah.

• 1:16:30Steven Rinella?

  Hey man, man, who uh tell us real quick, who's behind you there, Cody?

• 1:16:35Speaker 06

  Uh, that would be, uh, I got Jay-Z, uh, Rasta and Thelma. Yeah.

• 1:16:42Steven Rinella?

  You guys doing a victory lap?

• 1:16:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, we've been dancing all morning.

• 1:16:48Steven Rinella?

  And uh and Cody, when does your season start? Like, when are you gonna go out and start looking for tracks?

• 1:16:53Speaker 06

  Um, actually, we're hunting cattle down south. Now we got some snow down uh down by Los Alamos and we've been down there running dogs and then uh lion season will start the end of the big game hunt, fourth season, which is the end of this month. Plus CPW, which there's a great group of guys down here with our Colorado Parks and Wildlife. They are uh employing another lion study in this unit or these units down here. So not only will we be uh able to pursue lions and take them, but we're gonna probably collar a bunch of lions for. For a lion study, so it's all good.

• 1:17:32Steven Rinella?

  Excellent, man. Keep up, keep up the great work. Always love hearing your stories. Thanks for coming on. We'll catch in with you. We'll touch in with you again down the road. Once lion season gets rolling. Cody Fahrion, thanks so much, man.

• 1:17:45Speaker 06

  Awesome. Thanks, guys.

• 1:17:47Steven Rinella?

  All right, Phil, did you want to do one last feedback?

• 1:17:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, we'll turn this into kind of like a feedback slash promo because people have some questions that I think we've got answers to. When are we getting season 13 of Meat Eater? I thought this would be a good discussion to have about Rough Cuts and if these people haven't heard.

• 1:18:01Steven Rinella?

  Rough Cuts is available right now. We just started launching a show that we did.

• 1:18:07Steven Rinella?

  That I'm hosting called Rough Cuts. It's kind of a different sort of look at a lot of the issues and practices. That we like to get involved in. Our first Rough Cuts just launched on Monday. It's about trapping. We're going to run a bunch of Rough Cut episodes coming up in the next weeks. And at the same time, I'm working on a season 13 of Meat Eater as well. But we've only filmed one episode so far. But we got a bunch more coming up and we'll get another season of Meat Eater under wraps in the future here.

• 1:18:40Speaker 05

  And to follow that up, since Randall's here as well, Mogor's asking about the next audiobook. And also, is it very exhausting?

• 1:18:47Steven Rinella?

  Are you, are you making that assumption based on my appearance?

• 1:18:51Speaker 06

  Exhausting or exhaustive?

• 1:18:54Steven Rinella?

  Both. It's coming along great. We're actively recording it right now. We've got most of the chapters under wraps. It is the history of, so if you remember when we did Meat Eater's American History, The Long Hunters, we covered the deer skin trade. So our kind of, one of our figures of focus was Daniel Boone, who was a deer skin hunter.

• 1:19:18Steven Rinella?

  Now, the one we're currently recording, we jump into the mountain man era, which is the beaver skin trade. And we're covering the years, The Long Hunters covered 1763

• 1:19:29Steven Rinella?

  to 1775.

• 1:19:34Steven Rinella?

  The Mountain Men, so Meat Eaters American History, The Mountain Men, which we're just finishing, that'll be out very soon, covers 1803 to 1840. It covers the Mountain Man era.

• 1:19:47Steven Rinella?

  You probably think you know what a Mountain Man was. I think you're gonna learn a lot more details about it. It is a enlightening, at times quite gruesome.

• 1:19:58Speaker 04

  Very gruesome.

• 1:19:59Steven Rinella?

  Very gruesome, lot of violence.

• 1:20:01Speaker 04

  Lot of eating weird stuff.

• 1:20:02Steven Rinella?

  Lot of eating weird stuff. Story of the Rocky Mountain Beaver Trappers, and one of our primary figures of focus in that is Jim Bridger. From there, we will jump into the Buffalo Hyde Hunters, and that will probably, when we bracket those years, it'll probably be 1866 to 1882.

• 1:20:23Speaker 04

  And it will be available, I believe, early February. I think it'll go on pre-sale sometime in mid-December, according to our latest understanding.

• 1:20:36Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, and it's gonna seem biased, but it is a phenomenal, it's a phenomenal work.

• 1:20:41Speaker 04

  And then after that, they're gonna start-

• 1:20:42Steven Rinella?

  It's what I wish would've existed my whole life.

• 1:20:44Speaker 04

  After that, they're gonna start coming out at a quicker clip.

• 1:20:47Steven Rinella?

  Quicker clip after that.

• 1:20:48Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:20:50Steven Rinella?

  Great, alright, uh, end outro video. I haven't done this in a long time. What's that mean?

• 1:20:55Speaker 05

  Oh, we're gonna play the outro video, and then stay tuned for a video that Spencer took of him shooting a, is it an elk?

• 1:21:01Steven Rinella?

  Bull elk.

• 1:21:02Speaker 05

  Bull elk.

• 1:21:02Steven Rinella?

  Oh, so that's not the end outro video.

• 1:21:04Speaker 05

  We're gonna play the bumper outro. We play the theme song again, rollicking theme song. It's gonna fade to black. You're gonna see, you know, sort of like, ending video of Spencer shooting an elk.

• 1:21:14Steven Rinella?

  And then you see Spencer kill an elk?

• 1:21:16Speaker 06

  It's like a post-credit scene.

• 1:21:17Speaker 04

  I already said, this is a very nimble program.

• 1:21:21Steven Rinella?

  I guess I'll stick around to watch.

• 1:21:24Speaker 05

  Thanks, guys. See you next week.

• 1:21:26Steven Rinella?

  Thanks, everybody.

• 1:21:40Speaker 04

  That was a good shot.

• 1:21:44Speaker 04

  If you got another, that was a good one, man. I'm pretty sure he's fatal. He's struggling. He's really struggling.

• 1:21:52Speaker 04

  He's down.

• 1:21:59Speaker 04

  Oh dude. He's still alive, but his all four legs are down. Holy shit.

• 1:22:09Speaker 04

  Now his legs are up kicking. I think he's dead.

• 1:22:13Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats, in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you got WeatherTech, you're gonna be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig nice and clean, and they'll get years and years of use out of a set. Visit

• 1:22:58Steven Rinella?

  weathertech.com for your holiday shopping today. A better help ad. I would like to formally request more storage space in my brain. Because somehow I can forget why I opened my laptop where I put my keys, or the name of someone I met 30 seconds ago. But I can remember an awkward conversation from six years ago in extraordinary detail. So if your brain came with a delete button, what would you use it on? Maybe it's that tough breakup you've analyzed from every possible angle, and a rational worry you know doesn't deserve this much attention. The conversation with your boss you keep rehearsing in the shower, or that one comment someone made that you're still thinking about weeks later.

• 1:23:41Steven Rinella?

  We don't always get to choose what sticks around in our heads. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that gives you space to talk about what's taking up too much of yours. BetterHelp is now in-network with more than 125 health plans, with many copays as low as $15 for eligible members. Visit betterhelp.com. Cost and coverage may vary. Timeout in the field is not free, okay? Every time you go out in the woods, there's a trade-off happening. Like you leave work early, you miss your kid's game, whatever, you forego some family gathering. If that applies to you, what you gotta do is you gotta learn how to spend the right time out in the woods, the right time in the tree. An OnX Hunt's Deer Movement Forecast tells you when deer are most likely to be on their feet

• 1:24:26Steven Rinella?

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• 1:24:43Speaker 00

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