Father’s Day with Seth Meyers

For the past twenty-four years, Seth Meyers has built a comedy career inside the walls of 30 Rock. We join him there today for our Father’s Day special, reflecting on the past decade of Late Night https://www.nbc.com/late-night-with-seth-meyers. At the top, we talk about making the show four nights a week (3:35), his approach to parenting as seen in his HBO specialDad Man Walking https://www.max.com/movies/seth-meyers-dad-man-walking/785e5ee6-cf73-4187-a0c8-afc3889437cd (10:38), and the formative lessons that shaped his comedic voice (14:25). Then, we unpack the characters he brought to his SNL audition (18:45), what it takes to get a sketch from read-through to air (25:09), and an infamous 2004 scene Seth performed opposite Donald Trump (30:40). On the back-half, Meyers revisits his legendary White House Correspondents Dinner monologue (38:09), how that night unexpectedly set him on the path to Late Night (44:00), and how his singular approach to the talk show was born (45:10). To close, we take A Closer Look at hisStrike Force Five https://strikeforcefive.com/ co-hosts (46:30), the future of SNL (52:40), and an early memory of Seth’s father that inspired his creativity (55:12). Watch this conversation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mCLSSzBxW4&t=2101s on our new YouTube channel. Thoughts or future guest ideas? Email us at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:21Sam Fragoso?

  This is Talk Easy. I'm Sam Fragoso. Welcome to the show.

• 0:38Sam Fragoso?

  Today, a Father's Day special with Seth Meyers. For the past 24 years, Seth has been walking into the same building just about every morning at 30 Rockefeller Plaza in New York City. It was there that he first arrived in 2001 as a young performer on Saturday Night Live, and where, years later, in 2014, he launched his own show, Late Night with Seth Meyers. A decade in, Seth is still behind that desk, delivering jokes, making sense in the news, and offering levity in these historic times. You could hear that quick-witted sensibility in Strike Force 5, the podcast he co-hosted with his fellow late-night host during the writer's strike in 2023.

• 1:21Sam Fragoso?

  Equal parts comedy and camaraderie, the 10-part podcast offered a rare, unfiltered glimpse into the people behind the personas. Outside of Late Night, Seth has somehow found time to host not one, but two podcasts of his own: Family Trips, co-hosted by his brother, actor and comedian Josh Meyers, as well as The Lonely Island and Seth Meyers Podcast, where he reunites with old friends Andy Samberg, Akiva Schaefer, and Yorimar DeCoe, as they reminisce about their shared history at SNL and how they managed through the absurdity of early internet fame. I sat down with Seth at 30 Rock in the very building where it all began.

• 2:02Sam Fragoso?

  As you'll hear, we walked through the routine of making a show four nights a week: his early years at SNL, his brilliant White House Correspondents Dinner monologue, and how that evening kind of unexpectedly set him on the path to late night. And then, finally, we get some comedy lessons from everyone, from his father to Amy Poehler.

• 2:24Sam Fragoso?

  And so with that, I hope you enjoy our Father's Day special with Seth Meyers.

• 2:43Sam Fragoso?

  Seth Meyers.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 2:45Sam Fragoso?

  Welcome to the show.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Thank you. You came to my office.

• 2:47Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, thank you for being here.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Right. But really, I should say, thank you for being here.

• 2:53Sam Fragoso?

  But by here, I mean a place that you work and I do not.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  Exactly. And I want to apologize. I think both you and I, it's very nice you haven't said it. The chairs are bad. But I want to make sure people know, if they're watching, these are chairs. You didn't bring these chairs. I own the chairs, and I'm really sorry.

• 3:08Sam Fragoso?

  Imagine if this is what I brought.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  You brought the chairs.

• 3:12Sam Fragoso?

  Like, I'm on the train, and these are the chairs I've landed on.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  Well, now I'm just in, there's no, a pair of chairs that you want to see anybody with on the train.

• 3:20Sam Fragoso?

  No, but if you're, if one has to.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  If one has to.

• 3:24Sam Fragoso?

  You would hope.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  Well, I will say, if you, for train chairs, they're at least the right size. You wouldn't want bigger than this. And the problem is, they're a little too small. But anyway.

• 3:31Sam Fragoso?

  They are a little too small.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  I've already digressed enough on the chairs.

• 3:35Sam Fragoso?

  I read in the New York Times that when you get a little upset, your producer, Michael Schumaker, brings you into an office that overlooks the famous Christmas tree in winter.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:48Sam Fragoso?

  Is this the room where the two of you vent to each other in hushed tones?

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Well, so we actually have, our offices are right next to each other. And they both have a view of the Christmas tree. Very lucky, as far as, you know, office real estate. I never take for granted how cool that is. But it's really, look, I've been working with Schumaker since 2001. We're incredibly close. And I think when you have a show like mine, it's really important not to lose your temper in front of everybody. It's impossible to never lose your temper. So what I like to do is I like to just walk into his office, which is right next door, and then I will just sort of yell at him, usually about someone else, for about 30 seconds. And then I feel way better, and I just go back to my.

• 4:29Sam Fragoso?

  And what's the volume of that yelling? Is it, is it in hushed tones?

• 4:32Speaker 01

  I'm aware that people can hear me through the door.

• 4:35Sam Fragoso?

  Well, you have a soundproofed it.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  We have a soundproofed it. I feel as though that would almost be worse. If the staff saw just like big foam, rolls of foam come in, they're like, oh, no, it's worse than we thought.

• 4:47Sam Fragoso?

  They come back from break.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:49Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, wow.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, this is bad.

• 4:51Sam Fragoso?

  We haven't heard much from Seth.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  I was really, uh, Shoemaker had knee surgery and he was out. He missed two weeks of shows. And the last day of the second week, and it was just the smallest thing. But again, I hadn't had my, like, release valve of being able to go to his office.

• 5:06Sam Fragoso?

  What is an example of a smallest thing that you get upset about?

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Okay, so it was a Thursday, and Thursday's a really busy day for me because I'm working on the show. And then we also have this thing, Corrections, that I'm working on. And I was just fully taxed mentally. And then someone reminded me that I had to go down to wardrobe to try on a new pair of pants. And that was like the breaking point.

• 5:26Sam Fragoso?

  That was the breaking point.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  That was the breaking point because I just, that, anything outside the realm of the show that's not writing, I don't really want to do.

• 5:34Sam Fragoso?

  But you seem like you're in good shape.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  By the way, they do a very nice job of making sure my pants look good. All they need is every now and then I have to try them on. Like, I'm impossible. And so that was my break point. And I took a Uniball pen when I was reminded of the pants thing. And I threw it across the room and it exploded on the wall. And it's a great Rorschach. You couldn't ask for a better ink block. I threw it. I didn't expect it to explode against the wall, but it exploded against the wall. Anyway, Shoemaker has already ordered a plaque. We're not going to clean up the ink block. We're going to leave it as a memory of what happens when Shoemaker is gone. And it's a, there's going to be a plaque, this commemorates the eight days that Seth had to work without Shoemaker.

• 6:12Sam Fragoso?

  You know, but you have sort of a history of throwing things in the office.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  I'm a thrower. By the way, I want to, I want to walk way back. Like, this is, you know, I don't want anybody to think I'm about to get mean-tued. I don't throw things at people. I just sometimes will throw. I almost, most of my throwing, there's no one else around.

• 6:31Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, I'm the same way. Because I had heard, you know, in your early years at SNL.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:36Sam Fragoso?

  When you were a performer.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that was, I was a different, I was a different cat.

• 6:39Sam Fragoso?

  We're going to get into that person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the whole point of the show is to get in. I heard that one time you had a sketch.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:45Sam Fragoso?

  That you really liked.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Loved it.

• 6:47Sam Fragoso?

  And then at the table read, your sketch was not chosen.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:50Sam Fragoso?

  And you went into your dressing room and slammed the door.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 6:54Sam Fragoso?

  And the handle. Went through the wall.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, went through the wall. Flimsy, again, this podcast should really be about the flimsy construction of this building. Everybody thinks it's so beautiful. The cardboard walls of 30 Rock.

• 7:08Sam Fragoso?

  And that's why they set up this interview is for us to denigrate.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  Right, oh my, now you're inside, right? So I, yeah, and then that was another thing, same thing, shoemakers wouldn't get the wall fixed. He was like, I want you to see the hole in the wall and remember how petulant you were. The other, another shoemaker story is, I like went into his office after my sketch hadn't been chosen at read through. And I was just sort of moped on in there and I like fell on the couch, like just picture whatever you're thinking, like an emo teen who just found out he wasn't allowed to go to the concert. And I just went like collapsed on his couch and he said, what's wrong with you? And I said, I'm just upset because I really wanted to do that sketch. And he, in the most mock, mocking tone, he said, oh, I didn't know you really wanted to do it? Oh, well, let's get Lauren back in the building.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Oh, that's, what an important piece of information for all of us that you really wanted to do it. And I was like, alright, easy buddy.

• 8:01Sam Fragoso?

  I'm so sorry, we looked, we looked at all of them and half of them were all half-hearted.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  He goes, you should write at the end, I really want to do this, that would really help us when we're picking. Cause we're not picking on merit.

• 8:11Sam Fragoso?

  This one matters to me.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  This one matters to me.

• 8:13Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, as opposed to all the rest of them. So I'm interested, like, when you're growing up in Bedford.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  New Hampshire, yes.

• 8:19Sam Fragoso?

  Uh huh. Your father was like an aggressive but very funny guy, right?

• 8:25Speaker 01

  I would say he was more very funny.

• 8:27Sam Fragoso?

  Than aggressive?

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Yes, he was just a very.

• 8:29Sam Fragoso?

  You've said before that he would yell and it would be scary. Would he ever throw like a ballpoint pen when he didn't like one of your bits?

• 8:37Speaker 01

  No, well, I mean, there wasn't a lot of like, these are my bits back then. And no, he was never, my father's, his anger with his kids was almost entirely disappointment when we weren't applying ourselves. Like, he had very high hopes for us.

• 8:52Sam Fragoso?

  What would that sound like?

• 8:54Speaker 01

  I remember using expressions like, I would be so disappointed if you threw this all away. And. I think my dad, to this day, and by the way, this is a two-way street. I think he sees a lot of me in him. I see a lot of him in me.

• 9:08Sam Fragoso?

  I think we all see a lot of both of you in each other.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:11Sam Fragoso?

  For context, he is a recurring.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  He's a recurring character on the show.

• 9:15Sam Fragoso?

  On the podcast.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Yes, oh, 100%.

• 9:17Sam Fragoso?

  Every Thanksgiving.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:19Sam Fragoso?

  You have him on late night.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  He and my mom both. So like, you know, it's a, and I can see it now, like when you have your kids. Like, I think in particular, when you see that maybe they have a similar skill set to you, you want to make sure they apply themselves to using it. You know, my dad, my dad worked really hard in school. You know, he got a scholarship to go to the same college that he then paid my tuition for. So like.

• 9:44Sam Fragoso?

  He went to Northwestern, then he got his masters at Carnegie Mellon.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, so he's a really smart guy. And then he had, you know, a couple of kids who, you know, were, thanks to his hard work, you know, they were living a more privileged life than he was. And I can tell like, that is, you can get really frustrated with your kids if you feel like they're just gonna mail it in. So, by the way, I would say temperamental more than aggressive. It's funny now, being a parent and remembering, one, I don't want to scream at my kids. And the two, my dad screamed at me and I think it was super effective. So it's like this weird balance. Like, sometimes my, you know, my wife will be like, you can't lose your temper with the kids. And I'm like, yes. With that said.

• 10:23Sam Fragoso?

  Are there occasions where you think it's appropriate?

• 10:26Speaker 01

  To yell at kids? I do think it's appropriate. But I have this heartbreaking thing happening, which is, like, when my dad yelled, like, it was no, it was no laughing matter. And there's something, I don't know what it is, like, it, like, my kids think it's funny when I yell.

• 10:38Sam Fragoso?

  There's a, there's a bit in Dad Men Walking.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:40Sam Fragoso?

  Where you talk about this. And I think I have figured it out.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Oh, good.

• 10:43Sam Fragoso?

  Do you know the episode of Seinfeld where Elaine says, like, Jerry, no matter how much or how loud you yell, it always sounds funny.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:54Sam Fragoso?

  I think this may be true for you.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  It's really emasculating when you're trying, like, here I'm about to blow. I was driving in the car, my son was in the backseat with his friend.

• 11:02Sam Fragoso?

  In no way did I mean to emasculate.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  No, I, I think, my, look, my kids, get in line way behind my kids and my wife. But, so I was driving and my son was in the backseat with his friend. And like, there was a culmination of things. It was like, traffic, and then they weren't listening. And I just think from historical precedent, my son knew was about to happen, based on how I was behaving. And I heard him say to his friend, "Oh, my God, my dad's about to lose it. You gotta watch it. It's so funny." I was like, "Oh, man." Like, there's just, and that's where, you know, because I think there was, the way my dad yelled was effective because it was, it's good every now and then, I think, as a kid to be afraid of your parents. But the way I yell at my kids is not effective because it's just a clown show.

• 11:45Sam Fragoso?

  When you were a kid, like, in middle school?

• 11:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:48Sam Fragoso?

  Were you more back-of-the-class funny, or front-of-the-class funny?

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Hardcore back-of-the-class.

• 11:53Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  I think it took me a long time to have the nerve for front-of-the-class stuff.

• 11:58Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  And...

• 11:59Sam Fragoso?

  Do you remember an early bit that did well in school?

• 12:02Speaker 01

  I always, like, I describe my sense of humor as that my, the class clown would be in the front of the class, and I would be in the back of the class with, like, three other, maybe, brainier kids saying, like, "This isn't that funny." But the threshold I crossed where I think I first got the bug for wanting to do this was some other kids, and again, I've been really lucky over the course of my career of knowing go-getters who are willing to organize things, and that really hard, sort of, point of entry. Where two friends of ours were like, "Hey, we should do a comedy night at our high school, and we're gonna get the auditorium, and we're gonna invite everybody, and we'll do, you know, we'll, like, act out Monty Python sketches, and we'll do SNL sketches."

• 12:45Speaker 01

  And the one thing we did that really, truly crushed was we all did a sketch, like, in the teacher's lounge, where we all did impressions of teachers. And I had this really good impression of our most beloved teacher. And I remember when I started talking like him, I maybe have killed that hard twice since. You know, that was, like, whatever, 16 years old.

• 13:04Sam Fragoso?

  And what did the teacher sound like?

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Uh, yo, his name was Mr. LeBelzak, and he, um...

• 13:10Sam Fragoso?

  Was your teacher Christopher Walken?

• 13:12Speaker 01

  He, now, I think, uh, maybe he taught Christopher Walken. He was, I was describing recently, he's one of those, he had that great New England quality where he pretended he wasn't arrogant. You know what I mean?

• 13:25Sam Fragoso?

  Do you have that?

• 13:26Speaker 01

  You know, I grew out of the Midwestern ground. I didn't find my way to New England until I was, like, 10, 11 years old.

• 13:31Sam Fragoso?

  Maybe you were humbled by the Pittsburgh Steelers.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  No, I don't think that you get humbled by a city of champions. I think, if anything, you walk around pretty proud when you have the most Lombardi trophies. You know, I will say, I, you know, I was talking to somebody recently. I'm a Celtics fan. They're not like my, break my heart team, right? But as we're talking, the Celtics are down 3-2 to the Knicks.

• 13:51Sam Fragoso?

  I'm aware.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  But, uh, I will say, like, I will be, because the, and again, it helps that the Celtics won last year. Part of me thinks it should be spread around, and it's been a long time since the Knicks have won anything. And so I would be okay if the Knicks won.

• 14:06Sam Fragoso?

  So you're kind of like a socialist, like, sports fan?

• 14:09Speaker 01

  I'm a hundred, I have a real socialist bent to my, as sports fandom, save for the NFL where I think the Steelers should win every year.

• 14:16Sam Fragoso?

  Does your socialism begin and end in sports?

• 14:19Speaker 01

  I think that there, uh, everything from championships to wealth should be redistributed a little bit more than it is right now.

• 14:26Sam Fragoso?

  When you did perform in high school?

• 14:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:29Sam Fragoso?

  And you killed doing the Christopher Walken like teacher?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. For the listeners, I want you to know, we did comedy night one time, but that was.

• 14:35Sam Fragoso?

  By the way, it's kind of reassuring to know that someone who killed once got head writer on SNL.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I killed a few more times between then and head writer.

• 14:45Sam Fragoso?

  But when you went home and you would talk about bits?

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:49Sam Fragoso?

  How did you relay them to your father?

• 14:52Speaker 01

  So I did this thing that, uh, this feels like a memory that has come back to me recently, which is, I would say funny things at school, and my dad, again, was the funniest person I knew. And I would come home and at dinner, because we always had dinner together, our family, I would tell him the funny things I said, but I would always say that another kid had said it. And I would say, oh, this kid said, and it was almost like I didn't, there were a couple of things. One, I don't think my dad was the kind of dad who would love you to be like, oh, my God, I was so funny. I said this, this, and this. And by the way, he eventually came to fully appreciate that. One of my favorite things to do is like, you know, I'll host a, you know, I'll host a charity event and I'll call my dad the next day and be like, I did this bit, this bit.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Like, so I'm, we're fully past where I was, but I think I had this, I just was maybe.

• 15:41Sam Fragoso?

  But it sounds foundational, though.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  It was, I think, a little foundational. It was a little of like, I'm not quite sure yet this is my path. So let me just sort of do this weird thing where I sort of am bouncing the jokes I told and with a level of anonymity. So I can get a true reaction from my dad.

• 16:01Sam Fragoso?

  Did you feel like he would not think the jokes were funny if they knew, if he knew they were coming from you?

• 16:07Speaker 01

  I think I knew that he would. Just give the most, at least what I was thinking at the time, the truest reaction, if you thought it was coming from someone else.

• 16:17Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, as a writer.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  As a writer.

• 16:20Sam Fragoso?

  That's what you were looking for.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like, these are blind submissions. I don't want them, I don't want to, I don't want any nepotists.

• 16:26Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? You know, the other thing my dad said, which I carried with me, talk about foundational, saying something I thought was funny and nobody, thinking nobody heard it and then saying it again. And my dad said, never say a joke twice.

• 16:41Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Because you think people didn't hear it the first time, because there's a chance they heard it the first time and just didn't think it was funny. And nothing is worse than saying a bad joke twice.

• 16:50Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  And so I, I think that, to this day, is my first rule of comedy. I mean, I think about how to deliver a bon mot at a dinner party the way a cat burglar plans a crime.

• 17:02Sam Fragoso?

  Say that again?

• 17:04Speaker 01

  Well, you know, like, sometimes I think I have something really funny to say.

• 17:07Sam Fragoso?

  What's a bon mot?

• 17:08Speaker 01

  A bon mot? It's the French word for the good word, you know?

• 17:11Sam Fragoso?

  Look, not all of us had a mom who taught French.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  I don't know, but like, you're, you're, you've got a giant microphone, you're in a suit. I feel like if anybody knew bon mot, a guy who has Talk Easy podcast. Uh, so, yeah, so I would, if I have something funny to say, I really wait until I know that people are gonna hear it. Because if I, if I say it and someone talks over me, and I know I'm not gonna ever say the same thing twice.

• 17:34Sam Fragoso?

  Does that make you a really fun dinner guest?

• 17:38Speaker 01

  I think I'm a good dinner guest. You know why I'm a good dinner guest? Is if somebody else says something really funny, and I don't think anybody heard it, I will repeat on their behalf.

• 17:46Sam Fragoso?

  I, I've heard this about you.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  I love giving, making sure everybody gets their credit.

• 17:50Sam Fragoso?

  We're gonna come back to that at the end.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Oh, wonderful.

• 17:52Sam Fragoso?

  All of this, all of, like, when you're smiling at me as I'm about to ask something.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:57Sam Fragoso?

  Why are you smiling?

• 17:58Speaker 01

  I don't know, you have a, you have a posture of like, I don't know, I feel like you're about to make so, a really, a really, um, what's the word? A bon mot.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  Oh, you're gonna, you're about to make a salient, that's right. You're about to make a very salient point. And so I'm, I'm probably grinning out of trepidation.

• 18:16Sam Fragoso?

  The salient point I was gonna make, I don't know if it was that salient, but your childhood does sound like the makings of a writer.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:23Sam Fragoso?

  And yet, for the better part of your college years, and into your early twenties, you seem pretty determined to perform. You were in an improv troupe in Northwestern.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:34Sam Fragoso?

  You performed locally at Chicago's Improv Olympics.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:38Sam Fragoso?

  Then you went abroad to Amsterdam with your brother and did improv. Then back to Chicago for a two-person show called Pickups and Hiccups.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 18:45Sam Fragoso?

  When you land an audition at SNL, do you remember the run of show for your audition?

• 18:51Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 18:52Sam Fragoso?

  And will you act it out beat by beat for us?

• 18:55Speaker 01

  That I will not do. You know, yes, I wanted to be a performer. I will say, everything I did that was the most elevated had an element of writing to it. I did a lot of writing at Boom Chicago in Amsterdam. Pickups and Hiccups, there was a ton of sketch writing in that. And I knew how to write to my strengths. And an SNL audition, and you know, I think over the years that people know this more and more, but you write your own audition. You know, it's obviously not a situation where you're auditioning for a show and they give you a script when you walk in. So you bring your bag of tricks with you. And I think I wrote a really good audition. They had said, this wonderful woman, Ayala Cohen,

• 19:37Speaker 01

  who worked in the talent department, and she was the one sort of talking me through the whole process, said, you know, look, you want to do about five minutes, three characters, three impressions, or however you want to mix it up. But I liked, I really wanted to have rules that I could like live by. So I was like, no, I got it. Five minutes, three and three, done. And again, it's oh, one. So my three impressions were Hugh Grant, Russell Crowe, and David Arquette. And then my three characters were a drunk Boston guy who had been arrested for crashing the marathon, the Boston Marathon. And then there was, I did a grown-up Harry Potter. And then did a former fashion photographer, who is now working at Sears, taking family portraits.

• 20:19Sam Fragoso?

  Which of those do you still enjoy doing?

• 20:23Speaker 01

  Well, here's the thing, as far as like why I don't enjoy doing them. To even like, go back to that moment at all is sort of a skin crawling anxiety.

• 20:35Sam Fragoso?

  Let me just phrase it like this, how much of your approach to the job of talk show host is inspired by your impression of Russell Crowe hosting a talk show?

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was what the impression was. I would say very little. This is like, post Gladiator Russell Crowe.

• 20:51Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  And so the bit was Russell Crowe hosting a talk show and the jokes would bomb and then he would just scream, "Oh, you're not entertained. This is not why you are here." I mean, again, already pretty bad. And then I tried it as a sketch. And once again, the same shoemaker who just, obviously, hopefully you all see him now as the dream crusher he is, his note afterwards, because I said, "I think I know where, if we try it again, I think I know how to fix it." And he said, "You can't ever look like Russell Crowe. Your neck is half the size of his neck." And so, I mean, that's the nicest way. When you make it a math problem, instead of just saying, "You've got a pencil neck." But yeah, so that was a failure. But look, it got me hired.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  And then it also unfortunately sort of elevated, a lot of people over the years have auditioned. And Lauren has said about their audition, "I could see them as a writer on the show." And because, you know, he appreciates that people wrote it. I'm very lucky that he didn't come to that conclusion about me. Because that would have been a perfectly fine conclusion to come to, of like, "Oh, my God, we should hire this guy as a writer." And instead he hired me as a cast member. And obviously, over the course of a few years, he very kindly sort of shunted me over to the writing staff, where I was a lot happier too.

• 22:12Sam Fragoso?

  But why is that skin crawling to go back to that time?

• 22:16Speaker 01

  It's, I think it's, it's not skin crawling. Look, I'm really proud of it.

• 22:19Sam Fragoso?

  It was the word you used. I was using your word.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no, I, it's more like, I don't want to, when you say like, "Which one of them do you enjoy doing now?" Like, I, look, the best I ever went was the time they got me hired for SNL.

• 22:32Sam Fragoso?

  I enjoyed it.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  I will thank you. I mean, you got me to do the one you wanted, so just be happy. Obviously, everybody who's listening knows you wanted me to do the Russell Crowe and you got me to do it. So just take your victory lap.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  I mean, mostly I'm just gonna go home tonight and be like, "Oh, my God, was it Christopher Walken?" Was my Wally LaBelzick this whole time just Christopher Walken?

• 22:52Sam Fragoso?

  I really hope I leave you with more than that.

• 22:56Sam Fragoso?

  After the break, more from Seth Meyers.

• 23:10Sam Fragoso?

  I think a lot of us are going to spend the next few weeks looking for gifts online. And while I like finding something thoughtful for the people in my life, the process can get a little ridiculous. You've got a dozen tabs open, you're comparing prices, and you're trying to remember which store had that one thing you saw that has a deal, and you flagged it, and you saved it, and now you can't find it. Anyway, that's what I like about Shop. Shop brings all kinds of stores together in one place, so you can search for what you're looking for across different brands while discovering new ones along the way, plus tracking all your orders without jumping in between websites. And just in time for the holidays, they're celebrating the all-new shop.com with a pretty extraordinary giveaway.

• 23:51Sam Fragoso?

  1,000 shoppers will win $1,000 in ShopCash. That's $1 million in total, which you can put towards gifts for other people, or maybe something you've had an eye on for yourself. And you don't have to buy anything to enter the giveaway. Enter to win the $1 million ShopCash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win, and that's shop.com, shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 24:27Sam Fragoso?

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• 25:12Sam Fragoso?

  So you can find something for just about everyone on your list. By working directly with ethical factories and cutting out the middlemen, Quince prices everything 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Talk Easy. It's the best way to support the show.

• 25:59Sam Fragoso?

  When you land the job in 2001, you're on as a performer.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 26:04Sam Fragoso?

  With Amy Poehler in the same class. Now, I've heard you describe those early years as being filled with self doubt. I turned every micro into a macro.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 26:15Sam Fragoso?

  So after you stayed up all night on Tuesday, writing a sketch, and then you went to the table read on Wednesday and it wouldn't go your way, as we talked about earlier. Afterward, when you and Amy would go to a bar called Dublin Six.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 26:29Sam Fragoso?

  In the West Village. What would your self doubt sound like?

• 26:34Speaker 01

  So a couple of things. One, it was actually a little bit worse than even.

• 26:40Sam Fragoso?

  Did I describe?

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was worse than you described because I actually, because I was writing good sketches. So they were getting picked. So I was actually doing fine at the table. I was just getting killed at dress rehearsal, which is worse. Because if Lauren doesn't pick your sketches on Wednesday, you have one person to blame and you can just walk around saying Lauren doesn't get it. You know, he doesn't understand my sense of humor. Lauren actually believed in me. And then it was the audience we get and we got was like, we don't like him. So that, you know, it's better in life if you have one, you know, villain. But if like, if the villain is like, public opinion.

• 27:20Sam Fragoso?

  God.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Especially when, you know, again, it's not like, oh, they're a bad crowd tonight. Like it was dress rehearsals where like my colleagues are crushing. And then people just go like dead quiet. I mean, again, I'm exaggerating, but that was what I felt like. So that, that was also-

• 27:34Sam Fragoso?

  That's what it feels like, though.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  But the thing about the self doubt, and to this day, I feel as though I was never beating myself up worse than the reality actually was. Some people are like, oh, nobody likes my sketches. And you could be like, you're being hard on yourself. You're doing really well. Like, I was like, my sketches are bombing a dress. And I was saying that because my sketches were bombing a dress. So that's what I mean. Like, my self doubt was being pulled from reality. I was not-

• 28:06Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  I wasn't imagining it to be worse than it was. It was exactly as bad as I thought it was.

• 28:12Sam Fragoso?

  You had a lived experience and you were reacting to it.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  I've been pretty clear eyed about reality. When Fred Forte, Sandberg, Hayter, Andy Sandberg, Kenan Thompson, they all were hired after me. Listen, they were all better at being in sketches than I was. And that's not me being like, hoping somebody will be like, no, you're being crazy. Like, that's the hard truth. And, you know, part of the problem is like, you know, look, when you know that to be true, the good news is you realize, all right, so I gotta figure out something else.

• 28:45Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Which is what I did.

• 28:47Sam Fragoso?

  Was it painful to get to that point?

• 28:49Speaker 01

  The work. I mean, that's the way. And it was, the most painful part about it was- How much I respected those people, how much I wanted those people as friends. And then also that their, their very existence was causing me so much pain.

• 29:05Sam Fragoso?

  Did that make it hard to be friends?

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Well, so you, to bring it back to you saying like, what did it feel like when you and Amy went to a bar? And like, look, if Amy and Shoemaker were the people who I think I was most willing to share my floundering feelings with. Most everybody else, I think, didn't know.

• 29:25Sam Fragoso?

  You kept it tight.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  I think I kept it pretty tight. And you know, talking to, you know, especially doing this podcast with my Lonely Island friends, you know, Andy Akiva and Yorma. You know, I talk about these years with them and it's, I actually think it is nice to hear them say, oh, we never would have known. Because you don't want people to know. One, because you don't want your burden to be their burden.

• 29:46Sam Fragoso?

  Of course.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  And also, I think it's the, it's not good for anybody at SNL to be seen as in peril.

• 29:56Sam Fragoso?

  Do you remember a conversation with Amy? Like, there's the one that still plays in your head where you're like, God, I don't know if this is gonna work like this. I gotta find something else.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean, I think I had way more of those conversations with Shoemaker. I definitely remember like, being one of those really like sad taxi rides home from an after after party where it's like, it's like dawn.

• 30:20Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  You know, and you feel you're both like inebriated. And it just, it was the first time that it felt like it was, I was gonna lose it. Because even like, even when it was really bad, there was so much about it I loved. It, you know, being around that, those people, like, I didn't want that to go away. I held on for dear life. It's really, I mean, it's, you know, it's so surreal to work in a building, to still work in the physical building. Where you sort of also went through your hardest times and like, sometimes I think to myself, God, I wish there was a second hallway to get where I needed to be. Because it's like the same. Hallway.

• 31:01Sam Fragoso?

  Of course.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  And you're just like in the same hallway and you're like, oh my god. Like, at some point, I do think like you have so many memories that like you have no memories.

• 31:09Sam Fragoso?

  Pile on.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:11Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, there are streets that I will just not go down because I'm like, I, I, I broke up with someone that I don't want to do.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  I, is it crazy?

• 31:18Sam Fragoso?

  Why would I want to do that?

• 31:19Speaker 01

  How long, have you lived in New York for a long time?

• 31:20Sam Fragoso?

  I don't live here. I live in Los Angeles.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 31:22Sam Fragoso?

  But I, but I've.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  So you can just go crazy this time?

• 31:24Sam Fragoso?

  Basically.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Walk around, you haven't broken up.

• 31:26Sam Fragoso?

  My eyes are wide open for the first time.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Literally not a single dump corner.

• 31:30Sam Fragoso?

  Towards the end, right before you got Weekend Update.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:33Sam Fragoso?

  In 2004.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:35Sam Fragoso?

  Speaking of fathers, you were in a sketch called Fathers and Sons.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  I don't remember the host.

• 31:39Sam Fragoso?

  You played the son.

• 31:43Sam Fragoso?

  You were playing the son of Donald Trump.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  I was, yeah.

• 31:45Sam Fragoso?

  Who was the host, guest host that week.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. He had a very popular show called The Apprentice.

• 31:51Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, no, I've heard about that one.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:53Sam Fragoso?

  Before we play a clip of it.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  You're gonna play a clip?

• 31:57Speaker 01

  This has all been leading up. And here, I thought you were gonna take down my dad. All right, what do you got?

• 32:01Sam Fragoso?

  My question, it was a complete joke question, but now you've set it up too well.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 32:05Sam Fragoso?

  I said, um, I read somewhere that this sketch was directly inspired by your relationship with your father.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  It was, uh, it's a little unfair. It's, you know, I think that I always play on my dad's sort of, uh, that, the, how hard he was on me, but then the reality, especially now as I have kids, I'm like, my dad is the most affectionate father in the world.

• 32:30Sam Fragoso?

  He seems amazing.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  He seems amazing. He is a very, look, he held me to a very high standard, uh, to which I have a great amount of gratitude towards him. But I remember even like in 2001, so first year on SNL, I remember I was dating a girl at the time. It was the first time she, and she told, um, someone this later and it got back to me where, uh, she said she went to, I brought her and my parents to a Yankees game. And, uh, she told somebody, I remember I went to put my arm around Seth at the game and, uh, his dad's arm was already around him. And I was like, oh, there you go. And she was like, and that's when I realized he's like way too close to his parents.

• 33:07Sam Fragoso?

  With that, why don't we play a little bit from that sketch?

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Hi, welcome to Fathers and Sons, the show that teaches and discusses how positive communication between fathers and sons can make this special relationship between two men even better. I'm Peter Fleck and this is my dad Gary. There's no reason why sensitivity and warmth can't be key ingredients between fathers and sons. That's why we're here today on Fathers and Sons. Isn't that right dad?

• 33:36Speaker 02

  You could really cut that intro in half. Boy, it's way, way too long.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Okay, here we go again, alright. It's a bit long, you're right.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  You don't have to tell me when I'm right. I know when I'm right. Now let's do it, come on. This is just a miserable way to spend a Sunday.

• 33:54Sam Fragoso?

  Obviously, based on what we just heard, that doesn't sound a lot like your dad.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  No, it's nothing like that.

• 34:01Sam Fragoso?

  What is your memory of doing that sketch with Donald?

• 34:06Speaker 01

  You know, I will say like, uh, back then, my memory of anything that worked was relief. And it, as a sketch, worked pretty well. Jimmy and Horatio were really funny in it. And the host did their job. Like, they, I sort of wrote to what I thought they could do, and they executed.

• 34:25Sam Fragoso?

  You thought he could play a negligent, mean-spirited father?

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, uh, the other thing I remember, and other people will attest to it who worked there that week, is he carried around in his breast pocket the, like, Variety and Hollywood Reporter used to print, like, the TV ratings, like, mag, in a magazine. And he had cut it out with scissors, or had an assistant. Either way, he had to fold it up. And he would sort of, every exchange with him was sort of, uh, three questions, which was like, "How long have you worked here? Do you like it? Did you see the ratings of The Apprentice this week?" And then he would take it out and he'd show it to you, and you'd have to look and sort of be like, "Hmm, that's really, you know, that's great."

• 35:05Sam Fragoso?

  When you look at that now, do you go like, oh, I'm maybe the writer getting Weekend Update? And like, being on the writing side is, I'm better at that.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. First of all, there is that thing sometimes where someone said, how do you get over, you know, your anxiety and your depression? And the answer is like, oh, just things just started going better. Like, that's really kind of what the solution was. Like, I got, you know, I got Weekend Update. I got to do with Polar. I felt the most comfortable with Polar. And then I also now had my thing. So I just was like, I wasn't trying to like, write myself into the show every week. I was in the show every week. I'd been spending so much energy trying to write sketches for the most limited cast member in the show.

• 35:53Sam Fragoso?

  That was you?

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Yes. And now all of a sudden, you know, oh, my God, I can write for Bill. I can write for Maya. I can write for everybody. And like, and I can take esteem when it goes well.

• 36:05Sam Fragoso?

  You mean, you could write for the kids at school who said the funny things?

• 36:09Speaker 01

  Finally, I could write for the class clowns, because let's be honest, before I showed up, their material was bad.

• 36:15Sam Fragoso?

  Is anxiety and depression what it felt like to you? Like, do you still have that now?

• 36:21Speaker 01

  No, I think it was like, I just think, and I'm not the first, and I won't be the last person to feel this, which is you get SNL, and it's very publicly a dream come true. And everybody who is watching from the outside says, oh, my God, it's a dream come true. Everybody knows you are on SNL now. People from college, people from high school, you know, your improv friends, everybody you've crossed paths with. And then when you feel it, when I sort of felt it slipping away, it was just, it felt like, yeah, it was just a...

• 36:58Speaker 01

  And I couldn't stop, you know,

• 37:01Speaker 01

  uh, what I felt like the fall was.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  I mean, eventually it stopped, but I just at the time didn't think, I couldn't conceive how it would get better.

• 37:09Sam Fragoso?

  I've been watching the show and I've been following, obviously.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:12Sam Fragoso?

  Been interested in your work for a long time. And I can feel that version of you so painfully right now.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  You just, the hardest, you're just like, all because the only play, right, is like, you know what I'm gonna do this week? Be funnier? Like, you're all, we're all just as funny as we can be, like, nobody, it was, because again, work harder you can do. Be funnier. Like, what? How?

• 37:41Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 37:42Sam Fragoso?

  It's pressing.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, pressing.

• 37:44Sam Fragoso?

  Comedically.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh my god.

• 37:46Sam Fragoso?

  It's not like you can, you can't get more shots up, I mean, you can get more shots up in the gym, but like, it's, it's, it's so hard.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  And it's so, you know, also, it's not like, I'm gonna just do, I'm gonna go do, go to small clubs, do five minutes here, five minutes there, you know, it's every, the only place you got to perform was at the read through table in front of, you know, both your colleagues and, you know, certainly in the early times of the show, like, heroes. And you need laughs from the table, and of course, nobody, what people who are about to hear a sketch don't want to feel is, this guy needs this one.

• 38:18Sam Fragoso?

  Desperation.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  You know, desperate, so.

• 38:20Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  It's a trippy time and I'm glad that it's over, but, you know, I always have, you know, like I said, because.

• 38:26Sam Fragoso?

  It feels like you can, you can tap back into it pretty well.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  Well, you know, because you then, you know, it's still, you know, every week it's happening for somebody there, right? So I have a deep well of empathy for, you know, people who are at that show, and, and, you know, I have a deep well of empathy for people.

• 38:39Sam Fragoso?

  Trying to find their way.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  And I, you know, I wasn't, uh, it was, it happened to other people and I was there. And I, it was nice to be in the head writer slot and to at least be in a position to try to help people when you could feel that happening, but I wouldn't say that I was, uh, it was always successful, but it was nice to be in a position to have the power to try.

• 38:56Sam Fragoso?

  We've talked about a few different inflection points, but I feel like the biggest one is April 30th, 2011, which was when you hosted the White House Correspondents Dinner.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Donald Trump has been saying that he will run for president as a Republican, which is surprising since I just assumed he was running as a joke.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Donald Trump owns the Miss USA pageant, which is great for Republicans because it will streamline their search for a vice president.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  Donald Trump said recently he has a great relationship with the blacks, though unless the blacks are a family of white people, I bet he's mistaken.

• 39:56Sam Fragoso?

  Hearing that now, do you think that's the night he decided to run for president? Because you said once, "It's not the outcome I wanted, but that's history. I got a man-elected president. I want my points."

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Oh, boy. I don't know when I said that one.

• 40:09Sam Fragoso?

  You said it's Fallon.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, okay. So tongue-in-cheek, everybody.

• 40:13Sam Fragoso?

  Right. But how many points would you like?

• 40:15Speaker 01

  I would like... You can start deducting them now.

• 40:17Sam Fragoso?

  And how would you like to redeem your prize?

• 40:19Speaker 01

  I think at this point, the second term is when, oh, I think all your points get deducted.

• 40:24Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. So you feel responsible for the first term, but not the second term?

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think everybody has to own... I think the voting public has to own this term. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's such a weird outcome for a night that I am so proud of. And I can't... Look, if you told me, like, we go back in time and if you didn't do it, he wouldn't be, I would say, of course. With that said, you know, the other thing is, why I don't, you know, beat myself up over it is like, you know, it wasn't like anyone in the room said, "All right, they're really funny jokes. Just FYI, a likely outcome." So, you know, because certainly, you know, even at our show today, like, there are jokes all the time that we decide not to tell for certain reasons.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  So like, I am... I very much exist in a world where you weigh the pros and cons of material. But, you know, that was... I don't think I'd ever put more work into anything

• 41:22Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 41:23Speaker 01

  than I put into that. And, you know, for me personally, I think, when you mentioned inflection points, I do think that maybe put me more on the radar for the path that I'm currently on now, which is like having my own thing.

• 41:38Sam Fragoso?

  That night, it goes really well.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:41Sam Fragoso?

  You worked really hard on the...

• 41:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:43Sam Fragoso?

  On the set. When they bring you back to your hotel room...

• 41:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:47Sam Fragoso?

  And you're sitting in there waiting for your wife and your friends to show up and your family. Like, what's going through your head in that moment?

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Uh, first of all, it was really funny. I think the first, I had talked to Al Franken beforehand because he'd hosted it a couple of times in the 90s and he had been really helpful with advice. And the kind of helpful advice of like what the room's like, what kind of jokes work better. And he was the first person, he called as I was walking offstage. And I remember he was like, if you see Donald Trump at the party, uh, don't talk to him.

• 42:24Sam Fragoso?

  Good impression.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Uh, thank you. You know, I had to win you back after the walk-in. It would be great if I was like, and then Al Franken called and he was like, you did a great job. Everybody was laughing. And you're like, are they all walking? I think all his impressions were walking. So he, I was, but then I went back to my hotel room and look, I felt like it had gone well. But, you know, and this is everybody, like you, you know, you still want to hear from other people.

• 42:48Sam Fragoso?

  Of course.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  I would say that both, uh, you know, she was just my girlfriend at the time. But she and my dad, I think are the truest to this day. Like they are the ones who I know. Look, my mom, I could eat full shit and my mom would be like, you were great. Those monsters just didn't understand how special you are.

• 43:03Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  My little baby boy.

• 43:05Sam Fragoso?

  But they walked through the door.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:07Sam Fragoso?

  Would you like, can you see their faces now?

• 43:10Speaker 01

  If there's a moment I could relive. It was really, my, uh, my wife was like, I felt like she was so excited. It felt like there was like electricity coming through her. And it was so great to hug her in that moment. And then I got, I just got like a little fist pump from my dad that was, uh, yeah, I always get a little, I get a little teary eyed when I think about it. It felt like the real, I don't know.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  Like, it it felt like the end of that movie. You know, that that that was the culmination of something where-

• 43:50Sam Fragoso?

  The one we've been kind of telling-

• 43:52Speaker 01

  This, yeah. But, uh, it was, and like, the everything after that, in a really healthy way, was a little bit different.

• 44:02Sam Fragoso?

  Why does it make you emotional?

• 44:05Speaker 01

  I guess because it was maybe just, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what, that's exactly what I wanted it to look like. I know exactly what that is. And that's exactly what, like, it was like a key in a lock. You know what I mean? Like, okay. And then, like, he did it, and I felt a click, and then things were different.

• 44:27Sam Fragoso?

  If you're lucky, it happens a couple times.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  You know, look, we talked about that like comedy night. Like, I remember it the way you, like, remember a dream. I feel like I could draw the picture of my, like, it's still crystal clear. I think those moments, that's how you know, when it just prints itself on you.

• 44:48Sam Fragoso?

  Without that night, I think it's safe to say you maybe would have not got this job that you have now.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  Maybe not. I think that there was a real sense after that of uh, people, you know, who worked at this network, who sort of knew me as the Weekend Update guy, saying, oh, you know, because that was, you know, that's certainly a bigger room and a and a less friendly room than, uh, than the SNL studio.

• 45:13Sam Fragoso?

  When you got Late Night in 2014, you said it took you 18 months to figure out what the show was about.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:20Sam Fragoso?

  What did you think it was about when you started? And what did you think it was about, 18 months in?

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Well, I, I think one of the problems is I don't know if I knew what it was about when I started. Like, I think you have to kind of figure it out by doing. And looking back, obviously, it wasn't the worst plan, but I think it maybe wasn't the most riveting thing to watch, which is, I felt like I was just aiming for competence early on. Like, be good enough that it doesn't look like a mistake. But we were not in the wild swings era of the show. Now, part of that is I'm not anyone's favorite wild swings comedian. Like, there are a lot of people who have that and you are just in very safe hands with them. But remember, you were saying how great I am at a dinner party.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  But I, I kind of feel like that same thing is true of my show. Like, there's, do you want Seth at your party? Nah, he's fine. But like, do you want to be at your dinner party? Oh, 100%. So it had to become sort of a dinner party show. Like, it's a little bit quieter. And we realized if the underlying information that we were doing comedy about was, had more weight to it and was more important and it was, you know, day's events, then it felt more like a show built for me. So that's ultimately what you do. And, and I think it takes everybody that amount of time. But, uh, and you know, it's just even little things. And, you know, it was certainly talked about at the time, but it's so crazy how, when I just said, okay, I'm gonna actually start sitting, because I don't think anybody wants to watch me do this sort of standing monologue.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  And that was just, I think, centered the show in a nice way.

• 47:00Sam Fragoso?

  I'm glad you brought it back to the dinner party. And, and the words I definitely used to describe you.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, you, I said, we can go back and play that clip. While you're playing all these clips of me making Donald Trump run for president, play the one where you're like, you, you know who is good at a dinner party? You.

• 47:14Sam Fragoso?

  You do a segment on the show called A Closer Look.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  I do.

• 47:16Sam Fragoso?

  Which is very popular.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:18Sam Fragoso?

  So I thought we could do a segment I came up with.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Great.

• 47:22Sam Fragoso?

  Called An Even Closer Look.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Great, very novel.

• 47:24Sam Fragoso?

  So speaking of dinner parties, Stephen Colbert had a birthday.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 47:28Sam Fragoso?

  The five of you got together, the five hosts that made up the Strike Force Five podcast. Here's that photo.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  Very nice photo. Yeah, okay.

• 47:37Sam Fragoso?

  Just hold it, just to really see. It's really beautiful. So I have some even closer look questions for you.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Okay, great.

• 47:43Sam Fragoso?

  First, okay, which of the five hosts would be best on day drinking? That's a series you do where you

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:50Sam Fragoso?

  day drink your way into it, into oblivion.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  I mean, I think all four of those guys, certainly based on that, and I can get after it.

• 47:56Sam Fragoso?

  Who do you think would do it?

• 47:58Speaker 01

  I, I'm gonna say all, all four of them would say yes.

• 48:00Sam Fragoso?

  Really?

• 48:01Speaker 01

  I think all, oh no, Oliver has always said that he, he, when he watches it, he doesn't know how I'm still upright. But I think the other three would be a, I think you could flip a, a three-sided coin.

• 48:10Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  For the other three, yeah.

• 48:11Sam Fragoso?

  When the five of you are at dinner.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 48:13Sam Fragoso?

  Who plays host?

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Oh, it's a good question.

• 48:17Sam Fragoso?

  Last time you said that.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  Now, it's a little bit like my dad. You know, I meant it. So I think, I'm gonna say something. I think it would be Steven, but because we threw the party for Steven, I think it was Kimmel.

• 48:30Sam Fragoso?

  And how was he?

• 48:32Speaker 01

  Oh, fantastic. I will say it was one of those nights where, if anything, it was over too soon. You know, again, the five of us haven't been in the same room together since.

• 48:41Sam Fragoso?

  Last two. Since it's a birthday dinner for Steven.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:45Sam Fragoso?

  Did you split the bill evenly among you?

• 48:48Speaker 01

  I knew this was coming and I, in my head.

• 48:52Sam Fragoso?

  You knew that I was gonna ask?

• 48:53Speaker 01

  I knew you were gonna ask who paid.

• 48:54Sam Fragoso?

  Oh.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, not my first rodeo.

• 48:58Sam Fragoso?

  How do you know I was gonna ask that?

• 49:00Speaker 01

  I just, based on the first two, I knew it was going that way.

• 49:02Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, okay.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  I think we split it. I think the four of us split it, but I can't remember.

• 49:07Sam Fragoso?

  Can't remember?

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:08Sam Fragoso?

  But you remember, someone paid.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Like, did we walk out?

• 49:13Speaker 01

  But do you know the story about when we walked in? The best thing that happened was when we walked in.

• 49:16Sam Fragoso?

  But yes, no, no, tell it, please. My next question was gonna be about tip coordination, but it feels like you don't remember that.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  I will say, sometimes I feel bad when I split a check with like, you know, like if we're out with like two other couples and we split it three ways. I, I almost wanna like hide how much I tip.

• 49:34Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm, cuz it's so little?

• 49:35Speaker 01

  No, it's, yeah, it's a little. And I usually, I'm like somewhere between 10 and 12%, and then I feel like it is incumbent upon me to write a little letter as what I thought they did wrong.

• 49:45Sam Fragoso?

  For some reason, I heard reason that you did a tip and you just wrote the tariffs.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  I did. I was like, sorry, tariffs. And then I did a little shrug. I drew the shrugging emoji. I mean, look, I think I'm a very, I'm a very generous tipper, you know? I would hope that's.

• 49:59Sam Fragoso?

  This, this, this is also your version of doing corrections on your show?

• 50:02Speaker 01

  I, yes. But I also think, I'm, I will say, I think my, my tip threshold is not just being like recognizable. It's also having worked in a restaurant.

• 50:13Sam Fragoso?

  By the way, the more you talk about how good of a tipper you are.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  That's the worst.

• 50:16Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, I'm just gonna help.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Like, I'm like, what?

• 50:18Sam Fragoso?

  I'm gonna help you out here.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  You're like, I mean, like, we're talking like 21%, right?

• 50:23Speaker 01

  No, so, wait, where were we?

• 50:26Sam Fragoso?

  When you got there.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  Oh, we got there. It was me and Oliver and Kimmel. And a British guy came over with his girlfriend and they were literally, "Oh, my God, Jimmy Kimmel, you're the best talk show host in the world." No recognition of me, no recognition of Oliver. Asked Oliver to take a picture of him and his girlfriend and Kimmel. And Oliver and I were so happy. And then Fallon came in and the guy was like, "Jimmy Fallon!" And it was just, we, still nothing, the best.

• 50:56Sam Fragoso?

  How did he take it?

• 50:56Speaker 01

  I mean, John and I were over the moon. And I mean, I think Jimmy and Jimmy were, you know, accurately had been recognized for their good work.

• 51:05Sam Fragoso?

  Before we go, you have done a lot of, I would say, good work about Middle East. Everything that's been happening since October 7th, Trump's second term. Like, the Closer Look segment, I think, has become the most popular one.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 51:22Sam Fragoso?

  And in part because you and your team work really hard on those.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  Yes, we do. And I want to shout out my name, Sal Gantil, Emily Raddus, who work on that every day. And what they pull off is, I think, unlike anything else.

• 51:35Sam Fragoso?

  I was rewatching stuff all week in preparation. And the amount of material you do on Trump. I woke up this morning and I thought, "Are you all right?"

• 51:46Speaker 01

  It's a very fair question. I think I'd be worse without the catharsis of working through it. Look, on election night, did I, maybe in the back of my head, wish that I had a profession where I could just sort of step away from it? And obviously, I knew that was not a path forward. But at the same time, you know, you go back to work and you just sort of start grinding away at it. And, you know, we don't have a lot of time to talk about stuff like tone, because we're just constantly, you know, working on the next day's script. But we did decide sort of early on, like, this can't be a repeat of 2016.

• 52:27Sam Fragoso?

  Like, what do you think a repeat would be?

• 52:29Speaker 01

  I think 2016 was a little bit like, this isn't us. You know, we have to organize and make sure this never happens again. And then, you know, then the next time, you're like, okay, so this is us. Certainly for right now, this is us. And...

• 52:42Sam Fragoso?

  How do you feel about that?

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Not great. Don't love it.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Uh, don't care for it at all. So our thing was like, look, we have to, this show is joyful to do. And, uh, and we have to make it joyful to watch. And we're not going to ignore what's happening in the world, but we have to, if anything, we have to present like, there is still a place for joy.

• 53:03Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  There's still a place to be with people who, uh, you, you know, love, respect and care for. And you begin to find joy in things. And so I always say like, we hope it's cathartic to watch because it's incredibly cathartic to do.

• 53:20Sam Fragoso?

  But yet on election night, you were like.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:23Sam Fragoso?

  Wouldn't mind another job.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Wouldn't mind another gig.

• 53:29Sam Fragoso?

  People for years have said, when Lorne retires.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:32Sam Fragoso?

  That you and maybe Tina Fey would go and, and, and take over the program. The two of you, you auditioned to share a weekend update with Tina back in 2004.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 53:41Sam Fragoso?

  Would you audition to share the show with Tina if and when Lorne left?

• 53:46Speaker 01

  I just think it'd be really funny, whatever that audition process.

• 53:48Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, no, I would.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  I like that you'd have to go on home base and just walk around trying to do your best, Lorne.

• 53:53Sam Fragoso?

  He would want you to do the Russell Crowe bit.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  No, I think Lorne, the one thing is Lorne definitely wants whoever replaces him to do an impression the whole time. I just, I'm going to tell you the thing that, uh, is the true thing that I can say.

• 54:08Sam Fragoso?

  Are you going to start yelling at me?

• 54:09Speaker 01

  No, you tried your best. Uh, it's so, again, it's so flattering, especially when you think of like, and again, we've hit on it plenty. The place I was at that show, to have anybody say, you should do it.

• 54:25Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  And, uh, I don't think anyone is right, nor do I think anyone can replace Lorne. But I'm also, I don't want people to think that I don't feel esteemed when I hear it.

• 54:38Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm. He did call you the happiest head writer we've, we've maybe ever had on SNL.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  I don't know if I've ever seen that. That makes me so happy.

• 54:46Sam Fragoso?

  I will happily send it to you.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Great.

• 54:47Sam Fragoso?

  Like, but isn't it, you know, Lorne likes to have conversations as if you've already had a previous conversation.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:53Sam Fragoso?

  Is it possible he's already had a conversation with himself about how you will be taking over the show when he retires?

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Certainly possible. I will say this, I do believe he has already talked to himself about who it's going to be. And that person doesn't know yet.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  That was your reference. This is my. When I got late night, he called me. And again, it was like, I remember getting off the phone and thinking, was that a follow up? It was a follow up conversation to a conversation we hadn't had where he immediately was like, so look, I think you'll be good at it. It'll take time. And I was like, what's going on? It was the opposite of my dad's fist pump. It wasn't like the sound of a key in a lock. It was like a janitor. Like just with a giant, like shaking a giant, yeah. I was like, what's going on here? What door are these even for? But all worked out.

• 55:45Sam Fragoso?

  To bring it full circle, my last question for us, since this is airing on Father's Day.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  Oh, wonderful.

• 55:51Sam Fragoso?

  I know a lot of people have gone to know your father through the podcast.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:56Sam Fragoso?

  As you said, your whole family comes on around Thanksgiving on late night. And I thought, if you're open to it, we could end with a story about you and him.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 56:08Sam Fragoso?

  And this was around, I think your earliest creative ambition.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 56:14Sam Fragoso?

  Which was to become a comic book artist.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 56:17Sam Fragoso?

  And while you didn't tell your dad the jokes you made at school.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:21Sam Fragoso?

  You did show him some of your early drawings.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  It wasn't even like anything I showed him. It was like a school assignment.

• 56:31Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  Like, you know, it was like Christmas paintings. And you like, you know, I just brought it home and he put it in the fridge and then it was. Ah, now I want to yell at you.

• 56:43Sam Fragoso?

  Why?

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Cause this was just, this is another one that always just chokes me up a little bit. I know what you're doing here. Talk easy, he says. Hard feelings, talk easy. I, like, he was like, hey, we're gonna go to Sears around Christmas, right? Or something. Some department store. And the department store had had an art contest where they had like local art. And unbeknownst to me, he had.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, he'd um, he'd submitted my painting.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  And it was very, I remember, you know, seeing something I'd done.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  You know? With a, with a ribbon. By the way, it's not a good painting, but it's still up in a hallway. But it was, uh, yeah, it was really cool. And it was a very cool thing for a dad to do. And, yeah, I mean, since it's coming out on Father's Day, I'll just say that like,

• 57:45Speaker 01

  if he's listening, which he likely is, because

• 57:50Speaker 01

  he's so, he's always been so engaged with, uh, what we do. My brother and I.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  I would just say that, uh, yeah, like making him proud has been a real driving force. Very angry with you. I'm, I'm gonna yell, I'll yell at you off camera. God, I'm just a mess recently, guys. I don't know what happened. I think I'm gonna blame this all on SNL 50. I just haven't been emotionally in a stable place. It's a lot of gratitude, though.

• 58:23Sam Fragoso?

  You're welcome to yell.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  No, like I said, I feel like we had a nice emotional ending and I feel like I would undercut it if I just started telling you what a what a piece of shit I think you were.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, alright, so, but like, that's the thing, like, I sometimes like, who would I do, would I have done any of this if I didn't want to make him proud? So there you go.

• 58:49Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  Happy Father's Day to Larry and all the other dads out there. And also, I'm just so lucky to have him because, you know, my mom didn't lift a finger.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  You have so many, I can't believe I haven't busted you for like, you have a spray, a throat spray, tissues. I love you, like, I'm at the end of being sick and then there's multiple things in medicine out here.

• 59:15Sam Fragoso?

  He's coming after me now, after we had a nice emotional tender moment.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  I didn't want to have a nice emotional tender moment.

• 59:21Sam Fragoso?

  It's good with two parents who had and have high standards.

• 59:30Sam Fragoso?

  It's good for people who love you to expect a lot out of you.

• 59:35Speaker 01

  I think so, too. I think so, too.

• 59:37Sam Fragoso?

  It does, as we've talked about in this episode. Sometimes it's gonna be, it's gonna lead to a ballpoint pen being thrown at a wall.

• 59:46Speaker 01

  Look, if one wall somewhere's got one ink spot, is that so bad?

• 59:51Sam Fragoso?

  It's not so bad.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  Especially since we've established this building is terrible walls that nobody put any money into.

• 59:56Sam Fragoso?

  So I am so glad that happened and I so appreciate you.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:00:01Sam Fragoso?

  Sitting with me all the time.

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  Thank you. Talk easy, everybody. Take it easy. We talked easy. Now you take it easy. That's your sign off, right?

• 1:00:09Sam Fragoso?

  Not at all.

• 1:00:11Speaker 01

  We talked easy, so now you can take it easy.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  I'm deflecting.

• 1:00:18Sam Fragoso?

  Seth Meyers?

• 1:00:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:00:19Sam Fragoso?

  Thank you.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  You're welcome. Appreciate it.

• 1:01:23Sam Fragoso?

  And that's our show.

• 1:01:26Sam Fragoso?

  If you enjoyed today's episode with Seth Meyers, be sure to share it on social media, leave five stars on Spotify. You can even leave a review on Apple if you use Apple. All of this really does help us continue making the program each and every Sunday. I want to give a special thanks this week to Lauren Manasevett, the team at NBC, Liz Berger, Kiki Giorgio, and of course, our guest Seth Meyers. To find episodes of Late Night, his specials, and his podcasts, visit our show notes at talkeasypod.com. For more talks with other very funny people, I'd recommend Bill Hader, Natasha Lyonne, and Julia Louis-Dreyfus. To hear those and more Lemonada Podcast, listen on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. You can also subscribe to

• 1:02:11Sam Fragoso?

  Lemonada Premium for bonus content. Just hit the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com. Talk Easy is produced by Caroline Reebok. Our executive producer is Janik Sabrava. Today's talk was edited by Matt Sasaki and Chris Hines and mixed by Andrew Vastola. It was recorded out of 30 Rock in New York City. Engineering assistance comes from Noah Smith. Our music is by Dylan Peck. Our illustrations are by Chris Shandori. Photographs, Sarah Schneider. Research assistance comes from Ben Eisen. This episode was made in partnership with the good people at Lemonada Media, and I'm Sam Fragoso. Thank you for listening to Talk Easy. I'll see you back here next Sunday

• 1:02:53Sam Fragoso?

  with a brand new episode. Until then, Happy Father's Day. Stay safe, and so long.

• 1:03:15Speaker 03

  I'm Dan Heath. On What It's Like to Be, I interview people about their jobs. Here's a married couple that drives a long haul truck together.

• 1:03:23Speaker 04

  We backed up and they loaded fresh dead rats.

• 1:03:26Speaker 03

  I mean, how many rats would you guess were back there?

• 1:03:29Speaker 04

  There were 32,000 pounds of them.

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  Thirty-two thousand pounds of frozen dead rats.

• 1:03:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's correct.

• 1:03:38Speaker 03

  Find out what it's like to be a long haul trucker, a couples therapist, or an FBI agent, all on the podcast What It's Like to Be.

• 1:03:45Sam Fragoso?

  History gets written, then rewritten, sometimes by scholars correcting the record, sometimes by committees deciding what a generation of kids will and won't learn. The version that makes it into the textbook isn't always the only story. It's the one that won out. That's the kind of thing Ground News was built for. It shows you how outlets across the spectrum tell the same story, side by side, so you can spot the shading for yourself. Ground News gives each outlet a factuality rating, so you know how much weight to give the source, and shows you who owns it, so you know what's behind it. The Nobel Peace Center called it "an excellent way to stay informed,

• 1:04:28Sam Fragoso?

  avoid echo chambers, and expand your worldview." So go to groundnews.com/rz. That's G-R-O-U-N-D-N-E-W-S.com/rz for 40% off unlimited access vantage plan. Get it yourself or gift it to someone who'd rather know than not. Use my link, groundnews.com/rz, so you get the discount and they know I sent you. If you're a fan of learning all sides of history, then Ground News is for you. One more time, groundnews.com/rz.