Navy SEAL Debates Liberal on Defunding The Police

Shawn Ryan of Vigilance Elite and The Shawn Ryan Show former Navy SEAL and CIA Contractor debates a liberal / democrat on defunding the police. The "Defund the Police" movement has been, and continues to be one of the most controversial topics of 2020. The great thing about the United States of America is everyone has the right to freedom of speech and the right to their own opinion. We must learn to respect that once again. Shawn Ryan and the unidentified Liberal display an example of a civilized debate where each opinion is respected despite the public outrage and lack of respect that we continue to see in today's media on controversial topics such as this. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website - https://www.shawnryanshow.com Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/VigilanceElite TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnryanshow Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shawnryan762 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

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• 0:45Speaker 02

  So policing in America, something I thought was really interesting, based on statistics from the FBI. In 2019, 89 law enforcement officers were killed in the line of duty. Forty-eight of those data is a result of felonious acts. Forty-one of those died in accidents. However, they killed 1,348 people in the US alone.

• 1:17Shawn Ryan?

  If I'm sitting right here and I pull a gun out of my pants and I go like this and I look this way and I start shooting at you, what are you gonna do? I'm gonna shoot at you. You're gonna fucking kill me, aren't you?

• 1:34Speaker 02

  So I do not and will not agree with this narrative that the police are just constantly under... they're at war. And that they are under fire all the time and that they're being hunted. It's just not fucking true. The data, there's no data to support that.

• 1:52Shawn Ryan?

  Well, there is video footage of Los Angeles that just happened a couple of weeks ago of a man that walked up to the vehicle and shot two fucking officers in the head, correct?

• 2:04Speaker 02

  Shadow cabal of fucking, like, really violent protesters that are just there to incite violence. I think that's bullshit. Because I participated in some of those protests. I did. Peaceful ones.

• 2:22Shawn Ryan?

  A protester in Portland who threw a Molotov cocktail at a fucking cop?

• 2:30Shawn Ryan?

  But he missed, and the fucking thing set his own leg on fire. Who saved his ass? The fucking cops saved his ass, didn't he?

• 2:42Shawn Ryan?

  There's some good. You wanna go protest? Go ahead. Let me put your fucking leg out. Then you can throw another fucking Molotov cocktail at me.

• 2:52Shawn Ryan?

  Then, so maybe it is. Maybe we do. Maybe we defund them, and we pull them out of all of the neighborhoods that don't want them.

• 3:02Shawn Ryan?

  And they'll just sort it out.

• 3:06Speaker 02

  I think that would go poorly.

• 3:07Shawn Ryan?

  I think that would go extremely fucking poorly. But sometimes, you know, maybe the best thing to do is just let people live in what the fuck they created.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I agree with that.

• 3:19Shawn Ryan?

  Give them what they want. You don't want any police, you won't get any. None.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  So policing in America, something I thought was really interesting.

• 3:57Speaker 02

  Based on statistics from the FBI. In 2019, 89 law enforcement officers were killed in the line of duty. Forty-eight of those died as a result of felonious acts. Forty-one of those died in accidents. However, they killed 1,348 people in the US alone.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  So, looking at that.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  I think there's a big...

• 4:27Speaker 02

  The police think they're at war. A lot of the training I see kind of pushes that narrative. But based on the data, it looks like

• 4:38Speaker 02

  police are actually rather safe in their line of work and that their civilians are not. So with that in mind, and with the fact that, you know, we've seen from 2010 to 2015, $1 billion has been paid out in public lawsuits over police misconduct. And with the recent protests, there's been 10,600 demonstrations linked to the Black Lives Matter movement in all 50 states, according to ACLU. And 95% of those were peaceful and fewer than 570 or 5% of them involved demonstrators engaging in violence.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  So I guess what I'm getting at here is that like the narrative it seems is on one side, you've got the police who feel, you know, that their job is very dangerous and and they're not well-liked, but from the civilian side, it looks like they're

• 5:41Speaker 02

  fucking civilians up. I mean,

• 5:44Speaker 02

  what do you think about that?

• 5:47Shawn Ryan?

  Well, for starters, what were those statistics again? So you said, you said, did you give a percentage of how many Black Lives Matters protests wound up violent?

• 5:59Speaker 02

  Yes, that were linked to Black, the protest itself was linked to Black Lives Matter. 5% of those, out of 10,600 recorded demonstrations, 5% of those resulted in violence.

• 6:14Shawn Ryan?

  So I wonder, not that this is an excuse, but I wonder how many police calls there were, how many times they responded to something and what the percentage of that wound up, you know, being bad.

• 6:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I mean, that is something to account for the, you know, police do interact with

• 6:35Speaker 02

  people a lot. And so

• 6:38Speaker 02

  You know, maybe the the statistics gone like it probably seems to be that the overall majority of police interactions with civilians are non fatal, but following back on what the FBI said, you know, there are there are instructors that go around, I'm sure you know some of them that teach police training and a lot of that narrative is pushed that they like have a very dangerous job, they're at war and and I think that's the wrong way to go about it. I don't think that's the type of precedent you want to set for the police. You don't want to put them in that mindset. And especially when I can't personally reconcile that 89 law enforcement officers were killed in the line of duty, half of those

• 7:21Speaker 02

  being accidents, not related to crime. But 13 over 1300 civilians were killed by police.

• 7:29Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  That's pretty staggering to me.

• 7:33Shawn Ryan?

  It is staggering. I really I would like to know the statistics, the statistics of, you know, if we're going to talk about percentages, you know, what is the actual percentage of of police responses that have gone bad, you know, is it 1%? Is it half a percent? Because if you're if if anybody is looking for a perfect percentage, 100% perfect, that just isn't going to fucking happen. Nothing is perfect. People will fucking die and and that's unfortunate. But I would like to know that percentage. And I I I I almost I think

• 8:18Shawn Ryan?

  it's unfair to know the percentage of how many BLM protests went bad, which is only 5%, correct? And that's, I mean, pretty good. I think we need to know that percentage as well. You know, the other percentage is it is it 5%? Is it 1%? And, you know, as far as like the the fatalities that they're responding to, what are they responding to? You know, I mean, I don't believe they think they're at war. But with that being said, police don't get called. To respond just to bullshit, a, a, a smoke detector that's out of batteries.

• 9:02Shawn Ryan?

  There, what are they being called to do? Domestic disputes, domestic violence? Look at the crime stats in the, in the, in the, in the areas where they, you know, where the, where this shit's happening. What, what are, what are those like? If you go in there thinking, everything's just gonna be just fine, you know, like with Chicago, for example. Certain neighborhoods of Chicago, violence there is through the roof and and their gun laws, that you can't even own a gun there, correct? So, do you think? I wanna ask you a question. Do you think it would be foolish

• 9:43Shawn Ryan?

  to go into that neighborhood, into a neighborhood with a very high homicide rate? Thinking everything's okay?

• 9:53Speaker 02

  No, uh, I think there can be a middle ground. I don't think police should look at civilians that they are meant to protect as enemies, all of them. And they shouldn't assume that every situation they're rolling up on, you know, you take Tamir Rice and Rayshard Brooks, you know, these were kids. Tamir Rice was 12, I believe, and was on a playground with a toy gun and he was shot by police. That's absurd to me.

• 10:22Shawn Ryan?

  No.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Bad intelligence, maybe. I mean, take, you know, a, another one, I think, that's definitely on everybody's tongues now is Breonna Taylor, you know? I think a big problem with that was they were operating on bad intelligence. Yeah, I wouldn't say, you know, and I, I think it does depend.

• 10:43Shawn Ryan?

  Now, to my knowledge, Breonna Taylor, when they responded to that, or, or, uh, served the warrant, or whatever the hell happened, um, I'm going off opinion and you're spitting facts and I'm taking your facts is a hundred percent truth. But they were fired upon first, correct?

• 11:01Speaker 02

  They were.

• 11:02Shawn Ryan?

  So, what are they supposed to do?

• 11:08Speaker 02

  May I ask another question in that regard? What is the homeowner who gets a no-knock warrant, doesn't know it's the police? Like, any gun-owning American has the right to do with a stand-your-ground law, which Kentucky has?

• 11:22Speaker 02

  What are they supposed to do?

• 11:24Shawn Ryan?

  They might want to ask who the hell it is before they fucking shoot. What if that was her mom? What if that was his mom? What if that was a kid? They're just fucking gonna shoot blindly at the door for no fucking, just...

• 11:40Shawn Ryan?

  You know what I mean?

• 11:41Speaker 02

  Same deal with the cops. They shot into several apartments, and that's what actually one of the officers got indicted on.

• 11:46Shawn Ryan?

  But they shot after they were fired upon.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  I'm not sure of the round count, but I remember it being pretty high.

• 11:54Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I don't know the round count either, but... And, and...

• 11:58Speaker 02

  It's a bad situation, for sure.

• 11:59Shawn Ryan?

  Extremely hard to backseat quarterback these things without actually being there, or, you know? Um, and getting the, the full scope of what happened. But, as a person that's been shot at several, more times than I can count,

• 12:18Shawn Ryan?

  shit goes out the window. You know, when somebody is trying to kill you, and that's what that person was doing, was trying to fucking kill them for serving a warrant,

• 12:31Shawn Ryan?

  they have, they have to defend theirselves. They have to defend their brothers, you know? And, um, and it's very, obviously, it's very unfortunate what happened. Um, but,

• 12:42Shawn Ryan?

  um, you know, when you're being shot at, you, you can't sit, you're making a decision, you're trying to make a, a logical decision while bullets are flying past your head. And, when bullets are flying past your head, the only thing you're thinking about is, "I want to go home tonight." And I want my, you know, my, uh, whoever the hell their, you know, their colleagues, they want them to go home tonight. They're, they're approaching that door for a warrant. What was the warrant for, do you know?

• 13:20Speaker 02

  It was an arrest warrant. I don't remember what the crime was.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  But unfortunately, the, who they were serving the warrant to, they were at the wrong house and the person was already in custody. So, bad intelligence.

• 13:33Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. It was bad intelligence and there was no excuse for that shit. But, they were being shot at and, you know, and you can backseat quarter, you can backseat quarterback that guy too. You know what I mean? It's, it sucks because you don't know the whole fucking context behind what, what his thought process was. But, you know, generally, if I hear somebody tampering with my front door, I'm not just fucking slinging lead through the front door at whoever it is. You know, even if somebody broke into my house and was in my fucking door entry, I would illuminate that person with a light and I would figure out who the fuck it is before I start throwing lead downrange at them. Wouldn't you?

• 14:19Shawn Ryan?

  And, so, if somebody is shooting at you, they are trying to fucking kill you. And, they had to make a judgment call.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  Well, I think your tactics are

• 14:32Speaker 02

  the most appropriate to identify the threat before you shoot.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  If, we made that into law, I think you'd have a lot of cases where homeowners did shoot somebody that was actually try, trying to break in and hurt them. Those would be overturned very quickly.

• 14:51Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Many, many people have, and that is why that stand your ground law exists. And, and it's been shown in court cases by, and by precedent that if in the middle of the night, someone breaks down your door, you can assume that they are there to cause imminent danger to your body. And, that's where the self-defense comes in. So, from, and, and I, and I get it, I mean, I see it from both perspectives of the, the police and the guy, the guy, I believe the court testimony said that, they, you know, didn't hear a knock, just heard the door bash in. So he grabbed, started firing. Police said they knocked, announced themselves,

• 15:32Speaker 02

  and then busted in and got shot at. So, yeah, it's a pretty shitty situation.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  What I'm curious of is if the police, it's a bad situation, but how did that, how did the guy survive? He shot at the police. How did he walk out of there with his life?

• 15:49Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I, you know, I don't know. You know, I don't know where he was positioned.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:54Shawn Ryan?

  Was she right next to him? Was she in the other room? I don't know, you know, and that, I mean, it's fucked up, you know, there's no, you can't say like, oh, you know, I'm not, I am not giving them a pass. What I'm giving them a pass on is they, they fired after they were shot at. They didn't come in there guns blazing. They were fucking shot at and they returned fire. Now, you know, if they returned fire and she was standing right there, that, that, that sucks. If she was, um, if she was in another fucking room from where that guy was, then I'm, that's, that's even worse.

• 16:36Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and that's inexcusable. And, uh, and it does, it comes down to fucking training, which nobody seems to want to pay for. And me and you had a discussion about this earlier, uh, where you did your research and you said, you know, the, the, the, the, the funding goes to the equipment. It goes to fucking night vision. It goes to armored vehicles. It goes to all kinds of shit, you know, and it doesn't go to training. And I, I found that out when I had a law enforcement agency, ask me to conduct training for them. They had just gotten night vision, dual, like,

• 17:17Shawn Ryan?

  uh, dual tube night vision, PBS 15s, which are about $10,000 a pop. And, uh, they did not want to pay me to teach these officers how to utilize night vision. And

• 17:33Shawn Ryan?

  And, uh, you know, and that, that proved to me right there. It's like, wait a second. So you have the funding to buy your entire fucking SWAT team, $10,000 pieces of night vision. When, to be honest with you, I can't fucking see a reason why you would need night vision in the middle of a major fucking metropolitan area. Um, but you know, whatever, they have it. And, um, but you can't pay a fucking trainer to come teach him, you know, and, uh, just for the record, my price was $350 per head. That's it. Which I think is a very fair price considering

• 18:16Shawn Ryan?

  the training that they wanted, you know, but, um, but I'm not the one making the rules, but you know, that's, that's, uh, you can, you can buy $10,000 fucking pieces of, uh, night vision per officer. You can get these $200,000 fucking vehicles that you really don't need, but you can't afford to fucking pay me $350 to fucking train your officer how to utilize the fucking night vision. Now how pathetic is that shit?

• 18:55Speaker 02

  And you know, and kind of continuing on with that part of, you know, we had talked about earlier, but where a lot of the funding does go is, is into gear, obviously. Um, night vision's not cheap from what you explained, but also it goes into settling public lawsuits over police misconduct from 2010 to 2015, according to Wall Street Journal, $1 billion, uh, between the, between 10 cities with the largest police departments, some of those being like Los Angeles, New York. Um, they paid over $1 billion, $1 billion, uh, in, in, in funds from the public, uh, for lawsuits. So.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Given what, I mean, what you just told me, would you say that

• 19:47Speaker 02

  police are under trained? And, and if so, and if yes?

• 19:52Shawn Ryan?

  Fuck yeah, they're under trained. They're, police are absolutely under trained. There's too much fucking concentration on the fucking equipment that they have, and not enough on the training. Like I just said, they want to spend fucking $10,000 per head to get the fucking guy's night vision. Right? You know, I don't think they need them. Who gives a shit what I think? But you can't fucking buy $10,000 pieces of night vision, and then not fucking pay somebody to fucking train them how to use it. Like I said, my price was $350 to train them per head, how to use their night vision, how to do room clearance, how to make entries, how to breach doors, whatever you want to, you know, how to operate under night vision.

• 20:34Shawn Ryan?

  And they, they, they, they didn't hire me. It was too much. But they can afford $10,000 a fucking head for night vision. Now, what the real fucking problem is, is the accountability. It's across the fucking board. I think that's wrong with, what's wrong with America is fucking accountability. But, you know, what hap, George Floyd, you brought up George Floyd earlier, right? Now, what did we do? We fucking took that cop, and threw his ass in fucking jail, and don't get me wrong, what he did is fucked up. I don't give a shit, you know? Uh, people are saying, "Oh yeah, well, that guy had a fucking rap sheet, and, uh, he pointed a gun at a pregnant girl," right? Yeah, fuck, that is fucked up, and he is a piece of shit.

• 21:18Shawn Ryan?

  I don't give a fuck what anybody says. He fucking put a gun to a pregnant woman's fucking stomach? You're a piece of shit. Now, the facts are, he, whatever the fuck happened in the past, that has been dealt with, correct? That's done. That's over. He's fucking paid the price. I don't know what the hell he did, if he went to fucking jail, or prison, or whatever the hell happened, you know what I mean? He's done, he has paid the price for that, and he is a fucking free man now, right? So you don't take a free man and fucking put your knee on the back of that fucker's neck and kill him. For, what did he do? I can't remember. He was phony check or something.

• 21:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, phony twenty dollar bill counterfeit bills while they were called.

• 22:02Shawn Ryan?

  You don't fucking do that. It doesn't matter what he did in his past at that point. It's, he has paid the price. He is, uh, you know, his justice has been served for whatever that incident was that he did in his past. And he is now a fucking free man and, and was not treated as such. Now, what did we do? We fucking threw the guy in jail, you know what I mean? And, and, and, and, uh, they prosecuted him or, or whatever the hell happened. And, uh, but where's the fucking accountability? That guy had, if I remember correctly, he had uh, uh, a lot of disciplinary, uh, actions against him, correct?

• 22:41Speaker 02

  In the past.

• 22:41Shawn Ryan?

  So what the fuck happened to the chief of police there? What the fuck happened to his supervisor? What the fuck happened to the mayor? Who's not on top of the fucking police department there? Nothing. Not a fucking thing happened to anybody above that guy, did it? No, what did they do? They took the, they took the easiest fucking road they could. And they got the grunt and everybody else walks. When the fucking documentation is there.

• 23:15Shawn Ryan?

  The documentation is there and nobody's fucking talking about that, are they?

• 23:21Speaker 02

  So with that, you know, a, a, a big problem that leads into that is police unions and qualified immunity. Police unions are extremely powerful.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Think it was in Los Angeles County alone. In twenty nineteen, over a thousand officers were fired for, uh,

• 23:46Speaker 02

  misconduct, but 458 of those, their cases are still in arbitration, so they're still patrolling the streets. And that's because of the enormous power they have and backing by police unions and qualified immunity. And I think this is a good thing to talk about, especially where the contrast is with, you know, I think about the military, you know, you, you've been deployed and at least from, from what the news that's available to the public, in some of the most harsh conflicts, you know, Vietnam may be a little bit different story, but generally, the, the military holds themselves pretty well.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  They, they, and especially given that they're in a war zone, the way they're able to police, and especially with the Iraq war, be able to police and handle a civilian population without a lot of needless killing. Uh, why is it that the, in, uh, maybe you can give me more on this, because I just don't know, but the rules of engagement seem to be stricter for our military who are in war zones, where we have, we have said that we're at war here. The rules of engagement seem to be stricter than that of our own domestic peacekeeping force. That doesn't make any sense to me. And, I don't know, could you elaborate on that?

• 25:11Speaker 02

  It is, as far as accountability goes, are the rules of engagement, what are they for the military? And, and what does accountability look like if you break those rules of engagement?

• 25:23Shawn Ryan?

  Well, the rules of engagement, uh, they change. They change all the time. They change with, uh, who the president is, they change, you know, they change, uh, for per situation, per area of operation. Uh, generally, the rule of thumb is do not fire until fired upon if it's just a, a regular gunfight, which happens all the time. But, um, now, if it's a capture-kill mission, that's completely different. And I'll tell you what, what, what-

• 25:59Shawn Ryan?

  What generally dictates rules of engagement are where you're operating. So if you're operating in an environment where it is extremely hot and it is known that there is, it's extremely heavy Taliban or Al Qaeda or ISIS or whoever the, the fucking threat of the year is, um, you know, those ROEs get loosened, you know, because it is so fucking hot. And I think that's what people don't understand about, that's where I'm definitely going to take the police officers back is, you know, I'm sorry, but

• 26:36Shawn Ryan?

  responding to a, a well-to-do, wealthy neighborhood with a fucking low crime rate like Franklin, Tennessee, you don't have to fucking, you know, uh, be as worried about what's going to happen to you wearing that uniform. Now, you go into, what, East Nashville, is that where it is? Antioch, that fucking neighborhood? Every fucking morning I turn the news on, there is another murder, at least one, every morning. That's what I drink my coffee to. I want to see who's murdered in Antioch yesterday morning. Now, if you're a police

• 27:18Shawn Ryan?

  officer responding to an incident, fucking Antioch, guess what? You're going to be a little more amped up, aren't you? Because the fucking crime rate is through the roof there, because nobody can seem to get a handle on it. Now, you know, people are gonna, when you're stressed, you know, and you're under pressure like that, and maybe your life is, uh, you, um, under duress, you know, you don't have time to sit there and weigh the options. You have to react to save your fucking life and that's it. And the, the, the, the, the bad thing, the, the, the, the, the bad thing about police now is they're, they are...

• 28:04Shawn Ryan?

  Now they have even more pressure on them because they're under public scrutiny. So not only are they, we've just chopped their legs off. And you made it more stressful for them, you know, by, by, by talking about defunding them and, um, and, uh, and, and, and, and the decision-making process becomes, uh, it becomes even more difficult. They're already stressed, then, you know, they, they want to do the right thing. I honestly believe that the majority of police officers want to make a difference and they want to do good. Yeah, of course, there are fucking bad apples out there.

• 28:48Shawn Ryan?

  We've, I've seen them, you've seen them, shit, they're all over the news, you know, but, but, you know, as a police officer, you have to, you have to, I mean,

• 29:04Shawn Ryan?

  you can't backseat quarterback every single fucking incident that happens. You just can't do it. And, and, and, and at the beginning of this, I was asking you for percentages, you know, um, when we were talking about the BLM protests, five percent, only five percent of BLM protests went violent. I want to know the facts on how many police incidents went bad. I'll bet you it's less than five percent. I'll bet you it's less than one percent. And those are pretty good fucking numbers.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  With all civilians in the whole of the country?

• 29:42Shawn Ryan?

  I'll bet it's less than one percent.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  I think it's kind of difficult to compare to the Black Lives Matter protests because those are an isolated movement versus a day-to-day policing of civilians that we've had in this country for, you know, gosh, I guess nearly a hundred years now. But, you know, it's still on the rules of engagement.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  I understand, especially, you know, with that, that the rules of engagement are gonna change, depending on where you're operating. But regardless, if you fuck up, if, if you, if you break that rule of engagement, whatever it is and wherever it is, is, is the system lenient for our armed forces? To my understanding, it's not.

• 30:33Shawn Ryan?

  No, it's not lenient.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  And the reason you don't see that in the military is because the accountability system is so stringent that people know if you fuck up even a little bit, you're gonna be breaking the rocks in Leavenworth. So, do you think there being consequence in the military? Is, is that a contributing factor to why it's, at least to the knowledge is publicly available, are civilian casualties directly, at least, in gunfights are low compared? You know, the police are operating in America, in their home turf, where they live. And they're certainly not following the rules of engagements of, you know, don't fire unless fired upon.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  You know, especially with, you know, I look at, in 2019, of those 1,348 people that were killed by police, 55 of them unarmed. And since that data has only been tracked by the FBI since 2015, in 2015, it was 94 people were unarmed. What happens in the military if you shoot an unarmed person?

• 31:46Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, that depends, you know? Osama bin Laden wasn't armed.

• 31:56Speaker 02

  Put it maybe in the, the situation of you're at a traffic stop. You know, sure you may have stopped some people in a vehicle in Iraq or, you know, wherever. I'm sure that may have happened.

• 32:08Shawn Ryan?

  There are times when you fucking kill them.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  Then the consequences for that are?

• 32:16Shawn Ryan?

  That is, it's always situational dependent. Now, let me give you a scenario. Alright, so, uh, you're familiar with car bombs, correct? So, if I have a sign, and, and you have, you know, I have friends that have been, tons of friends that have been killed by fucking car bombs. And, you can't tell if that's a fucking car bomb. There's certain signs you can see, you know, maybe the trunks on the Toyota Corolla, or the taxis sunk in because there's so many explosives packed into the back of that thing. But, if you have a fucking sign out, and you have a translator yelling, you know, "Hey, don't fucking come any closer, or you will be shot."

• 32:59Shawn Ryan?

  There were signs everywhere. If you come within one hundred meters of this vehicle, you will be shot. And, you have some fucking guy who ignores all of those warnings, and is hauling ass at your vehicle, and it fits the exact profile of a fucking suicide uh, vehicle-borne IED, uh, bomber, you know? Then, you're going to fucking shoot him. He's coming at you. He's gonna blow your ass up. Now, sometimes, there were no explosives in the car.

• 33:34Shawn Ryan?

  Am I fucked up?

• 33:39Speaker 02

  No, and the reason-

• 33:40Shawn Ryan?

  Or should I have taken the chance and go, "Well, boys, this guy isn't paying attention to the signs, he's not paying attention to the verbal warnings, so let's just see how this pans out." If he gets here and hits the button, we're all fucking dead.

• 33:56Shawn Ryan?

  Alright, here he comes.

• 33:59Shawn Ryan?

  Hopefully, this isn't one, or do you fucking shoot him? You gave him a verbal, you gave him a warning, not to mention, he's got lasers on his fucking chest, he has guns pointed directly at him before there's a shoot. Right?

• 34:17Shawn Ryan?

  Why would anybody keep driving towards a fucking vehicle that says, "Do not come within 100 feet, or you will be shot." And a verbal, and people are throwing rocks, and people are throwing water bottles, and he has lasers on him, and he has guns pointed at him. Would you like maybe assume that that's a fucking bomb that's getting ready to blow up? Me too. And guess what you're gonna do? You're gonna kill that fucker, because it probably is a bomb. Now, there have been times where it wasn't a bomb. But what am I supposed to do? Jeopardize my fucking life because this guy can't fucking look at the context clues of what's about to happen? You know, and then there's the argument, "Well, maybe he can't read."

• 35:01Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, well, there's a fucking verbal. And here's the biggest sign that's universal. No matter where you're at in the world, if there's a gun pointed at your fucking head, you know, that probably isn't a good idea to proceed. Right? So, there are situations where innocent people die.

• 35:24Shawn Ryan?

  You know, because,

• 35:27Shawn Ryan?

  because of, uh, you know,

• 35:32Shawn Ryan?

  a poor decision that they've made.

• 35:35Speaker 02

  You know, I think it's important to distinguish there the context. I mean, you are, in that situation, you were at war. That's much different than, you know, this most recent shooting in Kenosha, where the guy was shot in the back, walking to his car where he may have had a weapon. May have had a weapon. That's a totally different situation. And again, I think, I think the enormous restraint to, that our military shows in war zones where they don't kill people, is incredible. Um, given that, you know, they're not home. They're, they're in a place where they have been briefed that you were here

• 36:20Speaker 02

  to fight a war and eliminate a threat. The police are briefed to protect and serve their communities that they live in.

• 36:28Shawn Ryan?

  Protect and serve. Now, Kenosha, let's go, let's...

• 36:35Shawn Ryan?

  Tell me the facts. Other than he was shot in the back, what were they responding to?

• 36:40Speaker 02

  They were responding to domestic call. The guy did have a rap sheet, and I think, I believe he had a warrant out for-

• 36:48Shawn Ryan?

  A domestic violence call?

• 36:49Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm, and, and, uh, he had, he had a warrant personally for, I think, sexual battery. Uh, yeah, sexual battery.

• 36:57Shawn Ryan?

  What is sexual battery? Do you know what that is?

• 36:59Speaker 02

  It's a lower degree of sexual assault.

• 37:01Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, so he has sexually assaulted somebody in his past, and they're responding to a domestic violence call? Okay.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  And, I don't know every single detail, but there was an altercation,

• 37:20Speaker 02

  with the police. He attempted to, it seemed like he was attempting to flee, and by police testimony, they thought that he may have been going for a weapon in his vehicle, which housed his two children. And they opened fire and shot him seven times in the back.

• 37:38Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  Before getting to the vehicle. That, by precedent, it actually happened in Knoxville, Tennessee, I think, two, three years ago. Uh, the police shot a fleeing suspect in the back who was unarmed. You cannot shoot, and, uh, one, you can't shoot unarmed people, and you can't shoot fleeing suspects, can't do it. It's, it's by court precedent, that's what the law has set. So, looking at that situation, and again, this is all with, in contrast to our, our military.

• 38:12Speaker 02

  It seems our military, with, with, with what, you know, you just described, there are a lot of warning signs before they actually go lethal. The police have been more and more, in all these situations we see, skipping the taser, skipping, you know, putting time, distance, and cover between them and what could be a supposed threat, and they're immediately going for a gun. Uh, you know? And I think personally, a lot of that is to do with that the military does have a stronger accountability system. If you fuck up in the military, you, you go to prison for it, and-

• 38:53Speaker 02

  You know, with the police in America, when they kill someone at first, they get to go home. If I kill somebody, or I'm suspected of killing somebody, I don't get to go home. I'm taken to jail and I'm held on with or without bond. Police get to go home with pay. And there's an investigation that takes place. That's where kind of the qualified immunity comes in. Now, while there, obviously, I think there should be, you know, the police and civilians should have some different expectations. I think it is a little, it doesn't make sense to me that we expect

• 39:36Speaker 02

  less violence from our men and women serving in war zones around the world. But our peacekeeping forces in our own country are not held to those same standards. They're not.

• 39:54Shawn Ryan?

  I think we're missing a lot of context with this. I really do. You know, okay. Now, what I want to say is, if you have been reported for a domestic violence call, which this guy knew why they were coming. I'm not saying this was a good shoot. So I want to be very fucking clear on that. I'm not saying this is a good shoot. But you just beat the shit out of your girlfriend, and the cops are on the way. You know why they're on the way, right? You know why the fuck they're coming over? They're coming over because you just beat the living shit out of your girlfriend. Now, they show up and they say, get your fucking hands in the air now.

• 40:38Shawn Ryan?

  And you're at gunpoint. What are you gonna do?

• 40:42Speaker 02

  Put my hands up.

• 40:43Shawn Ryan?

  You're gonna put your fucking hands up. Right? You're not gonna go turn around and start digging in your car, are you?

• 40:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 40:51Shawn Ryan?

  Because why not? They might think that you're getting a gun. And if they think their life is in danger, they are going to fucking kill you. To save their own life. And the life of their partner, which is exactly what they should do. If it's real. Now, I don't know the context clues. I don't know how far away that guy was from the vehicle. I don't know if the taser was even within, uh, within, uh, the effective range. Taser might not have been an option. I don't know.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  And tasers do fail on, on many people. That doesn't happen.

• 41:27Shawn Ryan?

  But. So, you know, being a responsible civilian. Even if he did beat the shit out of his girlfriend. Oh, I guarantee you, they didn't just fucking shoot him. They probably said, stop, put your fucking hands up. Get on the ground. Right? I seriously doubt they just showed up and this dude just turned around and they just fucking shot him. They, I guarantee you, there was some kind of verbal.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I believe there's a verbal, you know, there, there were orders given. But.

• 42:02Shawn Ryan?

  Now, with that being said, I'm not excusing that. I'm just painting a scenario.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 42:06Shawn Ryan?

  You know what I mean?

• 42:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, that's, I mean.

• 42:07Shawn Ryan?

  You're, you're a police officer. You're going to respond to a call of somebody who already has, uh, whatever assault or battery or sexual, so I can't remember what we were just talking about. But it was something with violence. And now you're responding to another call with the same individual, whi- which once again is violence. And I'm just, I'm just trying to paint you a picture that is different than, you know, what we've all seen. Now, with that being said, was there a gun in the car? I don't know.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  There wasn't.

• 42:41Shawn Ryan?

  I'm not, you know, it was obviously a fucking bad shoot. And that sucks. It does. But you, you do have to keep in mind their mindset and what they're responding to. And just like what Travis House was saying, you know, earlier. I mean.

• 42:58Shawn Ryan?

  One minute he's on the, he's in the middle of the street getting his face beat in, you know, by a fucking criminal. And then, two minutes, or not two minutes, five minutes later, after that one's done, he's responding to a call of a lady with a fucking smoke detector. And she's all, she's all pissed off because he's in a bad mood. But what she doesn't see is he was literally fighting for his fucking life in the fucking street. Five minutes prior to, to, to responding to that call. You know, and no human can, can be trained to overcome that. We're not, we're not supposed to

• 43:43Shawn Ryan?

  have to deal with that kind of shit as human beings.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Do you think that, I mean, but would you agree with the sentiment that, and this could be for a lot of reasons, training being probably the bulk of it, and accountability, I think, being another part of it.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  But our, our military does seem to handle these situations better. They do.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  I mean, you, you, you served, so I, I, I wouldn't know, and honestly, a lot of that information, like, the nitty gritty of the, like, it's not, we don't hear about it, can't find anything on it. But I didn't, I haven't read any mass, you know, there was,

• 44:25Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, this is like comparing apples to oranges, though, you know?

• 44:28Speaker 02

  Is it?

• 44:29Shawn Ryan?

  I'm a fucking SEAL. I've had millions and millions of dollars worth of training. Shit, it takes three years worth of training just to get out the fucking door and be able to even go to war and serve your country, serving in a unit like I served in. You know? Now, if, uh, you know, if, and, and, and I'm fortunate enough to be able to, you know, to have served in that capacity, but I don't think that we can spend, you know, five million dollars training every street cop out there.

• 45:03Shawn Ryan?

  So that's why I'm saying it's it's a little bit different, you know? We can't even get these guys ammo to fucking train with to get proficient with their guns. These guys are, a lot of these guys that um are are they're paying for their own training out of their pocket. A really good cop is paying for his own fucking training out of his pocket and we all know cops get paid shit, you know, so yes, they do. They need to fucking up the training budget. And and I do think this goes back to accountability. I mean, yes, the George Floyd uh case, the Kenosha case, like, yeah, those guys, the the guys on the ground, they definitely need to be held accountable.

• 45:47Shawn Ryan?

  But you know who else needs to be held accountable is the fucking is the politicians, you know, who aren't overseeing their di- different departments. Why aren't they allocating a fucking training budget?

• 46:02Speaker 02

  I I I think that the police budgets are they've actually continued to grow, especially here in Tennessee, and they they do spend it on thing like Nashville, I remember uh two years ago bought a mine resistant vehicle. That's what it was labeled as in in the news report. A mine resistant vehicle needed in downtown fucking Nashville.

• 46:23Shawn Ryan?

  There's a lot of mines there.

• 46:26Speaker 02

  And so I I think you've got, you know, you've you've got police unions that are systemically just too powerful and you're they're not able to fire bad officers, not able to do it. There there's, I I watched the body cam footage myself. There was a police officer in severe county, small county, low crime rate county. Uh my mother covered this story. He had a, he was there to serve a an arrest warrant uh on somebody missed their court hearing, the failure to appear and

• 47:02Speaker 02

  Guy walks out his front door with his cellphone in his hand. Cops start shooting. Thankfully, nobody dies, misses him. He on body cam, has a panic attack, drops his gun, has a panic attack. EMTs show up. He's having a panic attack and they give him back his gun. And he continues on and it's a bad situation, but everybody leaves alive thankfully. But, Sveer County was unable to fire that police officer and turns out he had been fired from two other departments coming to Sveer County. So, police, because of police unions while they've lobbied for, police departments are not required to report that they fired officers or the conduct. That's why bad officers get into some of these departments. It's very easy to do.

• 47:46Speaker 02

  So, you know, I do think the problem is systemic, for sure. I think it's not just cops are bad. I think that's a gross, you know, simplification of it that, you know, things like defund the police and shit have done. But, I do understand on that, you know. I do understand where the terminology comes from because the goal of defunding the police is actually to redirect these overinflated police budgets into community policing and, you know. I think mental health is something that is, you, police respond to a lot of mental health calls. They're like homeless folks especially.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  And, they're acting erratically. They will not respond to verbal commands. And, as we've seen historically, that's how shit gets violent. You know, if they don't comply, that's when the police have to use some type of force and unfortunately sometimes that leads to lethal force. But, you know, I think this moves on to a bigger point is that, do you think we do ask too much to the police? Do you think they're spread too thin for what they're trained for?

• 49:01Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know if they're spread too thin. I think the, I think the budget needs to be redirected to where it needs to go. I think, I hate the word "defund", but I think there are things that we could do that would, I mean, look, you're never gonna have a good encounter with a cop. That's not what they're there to enforce the law. And if you're breaking the law, you're gonna have an encounter with a cop. That's just the fucking way it is. Nobody has good experiences with police officers, very few. But, but um.

• 49:39Shawn Ryan?

  I think the budget needs to be redirected to where it needs to go. I think there are things that we could do to minimize exposure with police. Which? People have different, St. Louis did it. I believe it was St. Louis. Um, traffic cameras, you know? You don't want to deal with the cops? Okay, we're gonna put fucking cameras on the red lights. We're gonna put speed traps on. Oh, but then when you get a ticket, guess what? That doesn't fit your fucking agenda. And so we can't have that. So what do we have to do? We have to bring all the fucking cops back to be able to write. You know, basically turn them into meter maids. Oh, you got a speeding ticket. Oh, you ran a red light. And then now, now we have.

• 50:25Shawn Ryan?

  A ton of interaction that doesn't even need to happen. Because we as civilians just fucking threw a temper tantrum because we got to pay a fifty dollar truck fucking red light ticket. Because we ran a red light and there's a picture of our car running a red light. You know what I mean? So we've tried that and nobody wanted it. You know, and now.

• 50:50Shawn Ryan?

  You, you, you see what I'm saying though? I mean.

• 50:52Speaker 02

  If, if you increase the amount of, you know, interactions the police have with civilians. That by statistical fact will lead to more. There will be more violence because there's just more interactions. And I, I think that's completely fair.

• 51:10Speaker 02

  You know, and.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  I think there are, and that's kinda, I think, where, as I also disagree with it too, I think it's the worst fucking, like, phrase they could've gone with, but, redirecting the budgets and auditing them frankly, uh, cause there's waste from, from our, our Defense Department, we know, we know, there's waste there. There's waste in our police budgets, there's waste in our city budgets. We, we, we're, we're really fucking bad about that. I don't know why.

• 51:40Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  But we are. Um, I got a friend who is a, it's a little off topic, but I had a friend who, uh, part of National Guard and before their budgets roll over, he had to go out with his unit and shoot fucking bullets into the ground to get rid of ammunition so they could, their budget wouldn't get, you know, they didn't have a surplus to get cut. Thousands and thousands of dollars of ammunition. It's fucking waste.

• 52:07Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  You know, so I, I think, I look at it more like, let's, you know, audit this shit, you know, let's, let's see where really like, that police department buying night vision in a metropolitan city, probably a waste of fucking money.

• 52:22Shawn Ryan?

  It's absolutely a fucking waste of money.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  And I bet that money could go to, you know.

• 52:29Shawn Ryan?

  What they could've done, instead of buy every member of the SWAT team fucking night vision for ten thousand dollars a pop, is

• 52:41Shawn Ryan?

  gone white light and give everyone the best fucking training that they could receive. All they could've gone, used guys like me, they could've used guys like Ronin Tactics. Um, there, I mean, there's a ton of them out there, you know, Mike Glover with Fieldcraft. I mean, these are guys who were operating at the fucking pinnacle of, of tactics, of entering houses, clearing rooms, and.

• 53:10Shawn Ryan?

  You know, they could have done that. They could have used that budget for those fucking night vision goggles. And put it into the training and done white light, which would be better anyways, considering, you know. I don't know any cities that have zero power or anybody that cuts the power to where they go.

• 53:29Shawn Ryan?

  And, and, and you operate faster on white light anyways. But, but they didn't want to do that. I think where there's a breakdown is. Because we've been at war for almost twenty years. People are. Starting to see they, they, they, for some fucking reason.

• 53:50Shawn Ryan?

  People are comparing police to military too fucking much. It's completely different. We need shit that they don't need and. They're seeing what we use and they think that they need what we use. And they do not need that. They're not. Fucking operators. They're police officers who are supposed to protect and enforce the law. And, um, and I think, you know. I do believe that, you know, the. The vast majority of law enforcement does that. Uh, very well. Now, yes, there, there are fucking bad apples and, uh, and, and we've seen that, but.

• 54:32Shawn Ryan?

  But I think, um, I'm getting off topic here, but I think. Redirecting the budgets to where they need to be and quit with the bullshit, you know. We're not in fucking Yemen over here. We're in the US. We don't need a lot of that shit. What they need is fucking training. And, and, uh, and as far as, and, and accountability, we need fucking accountability. And not just at the lowest level. If an officer shoots somebody in the back. And that person dies and that was a bad shoot and there is no excuse for it. Which sometimes, um, there is a fucking excuse for that. I'm sorry, but there is. But if there was no excuse for it.

• 55:14Shawn Ryan?

  Uh, more people need to be held accountable than that one particular officer. Fucking.

• 55:21Shawn Ryan?

  They need to dig into his background, like the one guy, you know, why are you there? You have this many disciplinary actions, you were fired from that many fucking departments. Why was that, you know, you can run a fucking background check on me. Why can't they run a background check on who the fuck they're hiring? You know, so, um, whoever does the hiring, maybe they need to be held accountable. Why the fuck was this guy hired? Why is the mayor not overseeing this shit? Why is the chief of police not seeing this shit? You know what I mean? You're fucking people, right? But that's not happening. And then we also need accountability as civilians. Sorry, but if you're told to get your fucking hands up, then put your fucking hands up. Don't run away.

• 56:06Shawn Ryan?

  Don't start digging through your car and shit. That's, I mean, they're going there already. Already stressed the fuck out, hoping that they don't die, you know, or get shot. And so the minute you give them, you know, you make them even more nervous. They have to make a judgment call. And we are humans and you're not always gonna make the right judgment call. So if you fucked up, own it. Just like we were talking about earlier, you fucking own that. You know, if you get pulled over for speeding, you're not just digging around in all your shit when the cop comes up. You already know, it's all over the news. You know, put your fucking hands on the steering wheel.

• 56:51Shawn Ryan?

  If you, if you're a CCW, if you're carrying a concealed weapon, you go, hey, I just wanna let you know, I'm, I have a concealed weapon. It's right here on my pants. Or it's in that glove box. Are you sure you want me to reach in that glove box and get my fucking insurance out of there?

• 57:14Speaker 02

  Sadly, we, you know, on that specific instance, we saw Philando Castro, that very thing, and it's on tape where he said, "I've got a firearm in this location." Identified it. And when going for his wallet, as instructed to by the police officer, he was open fired upon while there's a kid in the car and his wife sitting next to him. He died. That cop is not in jail. So the account, I think we're failing on the accountability, desperately. And I, I want to talk more about accountability before I do training specifically. You had said, you know, you went through millions of dollars of training and it took you, how many, it was years, I think you said?

• 57:58Shawn Ryan?

  It's gonna take you three years from joining the military. If you want to be a SEAL, it's gonna take you three years at a minimum to get out the door and go fight a war. Because you need that much training. Two and a half, three years.

• 58:16Speaker 02

  You were from Florida, correct?

• 58:19Shawn Ryan?

  I'm originally from Missouri.

• 58:20Speaker 02

  Missouri, okay. Well, speaking of, you know, training and we invest very much in our military. And I think that's a good thing. We need to. Our police, not so much.

• 58:36Speaker 02

  Florida, the hour input it takes to become a street cop, 770 hours. By contrast, to be a licensed interior designer in Florida, it takes 1,760 hours to get that license.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  California, high crime place, 664 hours to become a police officer. 1,600 hours to become a cosmetologist. North Carolina, very close to our state, 620 hours to become a police officer. 1,500 hours to become a licensed barber. So somewhere along the line, we as a society have said, and I think this affects the type of people we hire to protect us and to enforce the law. You don't need a lot of qualifications, not a whole lot of training. And for damn sure, I know, and I think they should, the police do not have to have any type of

• 59:34Speaker 02

  law training at all, but they're supposed to enforce something that they don't know anything about.

• 59:41Speaker 02

  That's a problem to me. It's a problem to me that in North Carolina and in this state, it takes double, more than double, the amount of hours to become a fucking barber than it does to walk around with a badge and a gun and to fuck with people's rights. And I, I think that's absurd. And I don't see how anybody on any political side of any spectrum can't look at that and think, "That's fucking crazy." It's crazy, I think so.

• 1:00:13Shawn Ryan?

  I, I mean, I got nothing, I agree a hundred percent with you. But, you know, what's gonna have to happen is the bud, we, we can't defund them. How many hours did you say it takes?

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  In North Carolina, it's six hundred and twenty hours.

• 1:00:30Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, well, if you defund them, now it's gonna take three hundred and ten fucking hours. And then it's gonna get worse.

• 1:00:36Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:00:36Shawn Ryan?

  And then we're gonna defund them more, and it's gonna be a hundred and fifty-five fucking hours. And it's gonna get even worse. You're gonna have to give them money.

• 1:00:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:48Shawn Ryan?

  If you want, you, just like anything in life, you get what you fucking pay for. And if you pay a person that you expect to protect the, protect your life and uphold the law, fucking minimum wage, you are gonna get shit as a product.

• 1:01:06Speaker 02

  Let's look at budgets. I mean, the state police budget for North Carolina, where it takes six hundred and twenty hours to become a cop, their budget in 2019, there's a few line items here, I'm looking on the government's website, but it's, it's several billion dollars. So, I don't think it's a matter of that the money's not there. I think the money is being, just like with anything, is not being used very well.

• 1:01:40Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  And I mean, that just kinda seems to come with the territory of being an American sometimes. You know, it's just, the money, it seems to be in few hands and I think a lot of it's going into unnecessary gear. A lot of it's going to settlements, a lot of it's going to their fuckups. So, the public can actually save themselves money by investing in more training. And I don't think it's also just a matter of, and let me know what you think here is, it's not just more training by frequency, it's also more comprehensive and the quality of the training. I mean, I'm not a cop, I've never been through the police training, but most of the guys I went to high school with are cops now. And I can tell you, they're not very bright.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  So, I don't think policing in general, as it stands, attracts a model citizen.

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  It's not a fun job, it's a low-paying job. But also, you know, I mean, do you think power dynamic is a problem? Do you think, do you think just the very nature of being a police officer can?

• 1:02:48Shawn Ryan?

  Do I think that the power can go to their head?

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:02:51Shawn Ryan?

  Absolutely. I absolutely believe that. And anybody that doesn't can watch fucking Don Bradley's episode 003 and see what happened there.

• 1:03:05Speaker 02

  And do you think the solution, you know,

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  so, we've kinda landed on, maybe for the camera, you can reiterate some of this, but they need more and better training.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  They need stricter accountability, and we can talk more about that too, you know. And

• 1:03:31Speaker 02

  I think we need

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  Getting, getting in, you know,

• 1:03:41Speaker 02

  to be a Navy SEAL, that was not an easy selection process. You had to prove yourself in very demanding training.

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't think we, we do as much there with the police in terms that they'll take anybody, really.

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  You know, in, in some states, having criminal record doesn't disqualify you from becoming a police officer. Which that makes no fucking sense. I, I personally, I kinda get that because people do make mistakes, you know? They might want to better themselves, but regardless, I, I think, uh, uh, so yeah, more training, accountability, and we need to have higher standards when we're hiring people. And if we find a bad cop, we need to be able to fire them and not have them tied up their cases in arbitration while the public is paying for it because they've got a big ass police union behind them.

• 1:04:37Speaker 02

  And qualified immunity is a really, it, it, in its essence, I think, wa- was a good thing. Like, you know, it essentially protected that their police were performing within the line of their job. But it's become now just a, a blanket to the cops seem to be getting, and, and I think that's why you see,

• 1:05:04Speaker 02

  I don't think that there would be over 10,000 demonstrations in all 50 states

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  if there wasn't a problem.

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  Cause you know, on one hand, we can't say that like, especially, you know, my age group and generation, like, we're all, we're all fucking lazy and don't have the resolve to get any work done. But on the other hand, they're this like shadow cabal of fucking like really violent protesters that are just there to incite violence. I, I think that's bullshit. Uh, because I, I participated in some of those protests. I did, peaceful ones. And I can honestly tell you that.

• 1:05:51Speaker 02

  What we see on the news and what I have seen from my sister being a public defender and listening to her cases, my mother being a reporter, the cops fuck people up a lot unnecessarily. And not just murder, you know, we've been talking about police killing people. You know, police brutality does extend beyond that. So, you know, George Floyd was a prime case for that. Like, in fact, Minneapolis had outlawed that very tactic of, I think it's called the the courtoid hold, I don't know if pronouncing that correctly, but chokeholds and those things have been outlawed in many states, including this one. But they're still used.

• 1:06:34Speaker 02

  And when they're used and someone dies, there's a lawsuit that the public pays for through our taxes, but the police face no criminal charges. Do you think the police, I guess my question on the accountability side of things is, have you, you know, you maybe don't have to name them specifically, but would you say there have been cases in the last few years where the police have been under the microscope where criminal charges weren't brought but probably should have been? I know if I shot, if I shot someone in the back, under any fucking circumstance, I'm going to prison. It'd take one hell of a defense attorney to get me out of that.

• 1:07:19Shawn Ryan?

  Um, yes, I do, you know, I agree with you. Now, at the same time,

• 1:07:29Shawn Ryan?

  once again, um, there are scenarios where you may shoot somebody in the back where it's completely fucking justified. And, um, I'm gonna bring up that, uh, I think it was Atlanta, that guy got shot, was it at McDonald's or some shit?

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  Oh, Wendy's, yeah, I saw that.

• 1:07:47Shawn Ryan?

  He took a fucking weapon out of a police officer's belt.

• 1:07:55Shawn Ryan?

  Right there, you're done.

• 1:07:58Shawn Ryan?

  You don't think that fucking guy didn't know better than to pull a weapon out of that police officer's fucking belt? And then, yeah, he did. He got shot in the back, didn't he?

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:10Shawn Ryan?

  Did he get shot in the back?

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:08:11Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, well.

• 1:08:15Shawn Ryan?

  If I'm running away and I turn like this and point the gun at you and you shoot me in the fucking back, is that a justified shoot?

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  According to court precedent, now I can only speak on the court cases that I've personally reviewed. But my sister had a client whom a guy broke into her client's house, shot at him. He returned fire. As the guy was turning to flee, one of the rounds hit him in the shoulder. Her client is now in prison for attempted murder. Convicted. That's the law.

• 1:08:51Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think that's right?

• 1:08:53Speaker 02

  No, I don't, especially in that instance, no. But if we're not gonna extend that, if the law will not extend that to civilians.

• 1:09:00Shawn Ryan?

  If I'm sitting right here and I pull a gun out of my pants and I go like this and I look this way and I start shooting at you, what are you gonna do?

• 1:09:10Speaker 02

  I'm gonna shoot at you.

• 1:09:11Shawn Ryan?

  You're gonna fucking kill me, aren't you?

• 1:09:13Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  And I would go to jail, more than likely.

• 1:09:17Shawn Ryan?

  Maybe, maybe not, but I'm just saying, that's a fucking justified shoot.

• 1:09:22Speaker 02

  I agree, but it seems that the law doesn't give civilians in similar situations the same benefit as it does the police.

• 1:09:33Shawn Ryan?

  That's bullshit. I mean, you know, it's not right.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  And I think that's where a lot of the anger comes from.

• 1:09:38Shawn Ryan?

  But, but, you know.

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  And that guy in the Wendy's, I gotta say, I agree with you there, but the dude did shoot a taser at the cop, a non-lethal weapon. Does that justify murder?

• 1:09:53Shawn Ryan?

  Fuck yeah, it does.

• 1:09:55Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:09:55Shawn Ryan?

  Now, what if he would have fucking hit him with the taser? And now he's on the ground incapacitated and then he takes the gun out of his belt and fucking kills him with that while he's tasing the guy?

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  Some would say that's the job.

• 1:10:08Shawn Ryan?

  There is no fucking way in hell I am going to let somebody take a fucking weapon out of my belt, shoot me with it.

• 1:10:19Shawn Ryan?

  And hope, you know what I mean, that, no way. Part of the job is to give your life away for fucking thirty thousand dollars a year?

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  That is the oath that they take. That is what they sign up for, and, and that's the thing is I think-

• 1:10:33Shawn Ryan?

  Nobody signs up for that.

• 1:10:37Speaker 02

  And I think that's where-

• 1:10:38Shawn Ryan?

  What part of the oath says that?

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  Oh, it's different for each city.

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  I think that's where some of the disconnect.

• 1:10:53Shawn Ryan?

  I don't even give a shit about the oath, so I wanna hear you actually say that.

• 1:10:57Speaker 02

  So-

• 1:10:58Shawn Ryan?

  I wanna hear you say, "I'm going to pull a taser out of your fucking belt, I'm going to shoot you with it, and you're gonna sit there and take it and hope that I don't yank the gun out of your belt and fucking kill you with it while you're incapacitated on the ground as I'm tasing you."

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  From the perspective-

• 1:11:17Shawn Ryan?

  You're not going to defend yourself because that's part of the job.

• 1:11:20Speaker 02

  From the perspective of that I'm a police officer, or from the perspective of I'm a civilian?

• 1:11:23Shawn Ryan?

  E- either one.

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  From a civilian standpoint,

• 1:11:30Speaker 02

  I can't also say because I think, you know, what I would do in the moment, I don't know. Because, uh, uh, things you've stated, you know, adrenaline and having to make split decisions. But I'm a civilian.

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  I think where the disconnect comes from, and, and this may just be a matter of

• 1:11:50Speaker 02

  a younger generation having to learn some hard truths and that being, you know, police have been idolized in our culture. You know, since I've been a kid, there are movies about them, that's, that's, uh, that there's so much entertainment surrounding them and, and, and the reason they have and have had so much backing from the public is because, and same with the military, they're gonna do the job that no one else has the fucking guts to do, and they're gonna do the hard thing and the right thing, even if, if it may cost them their lives. That is why we respect these people.

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  And there's a social contract that they're upholding, that they're enforcing. And when the people that we look at to enforce the law, even in the most dire of circumstances, fail to do so, the social contract breaks down and there is no rule of law anymore.

• 1:12:51Shawn Ryan?

  I want to go back, though.

• 1:12:52Speaker 02

  Let's go back.

• 1:12:55Shawn Ryan?

  So you would let somebody tase you.

• 1:12:59Shawn Ryan?

  You would let somebody take a weapon out of your belt, shoot you with it, incapacitate you to the point where you are unable to defend yourself and with the possibility of them yanking another weapon out of your belt and fucking killing you with it. Because that's the job?

• 1:13:18Speaker 02

  Putting myself in that.

• 1:13:20Shawn Ryan?

  Or would you fucking kill that person who's trying to kill you?

• 1:13:29Speaker 02

  I don't think that seeing a guy run away from me, pointing a taser at me would indicate that he was trying to kill me. Seems he was trying to flee from me. And my partner's right there.

• 1:13:45Speaker 02

  It's not an easy situation.

• 1:13:47Shawn Ryan?

  He yanked a weapon out of your belt.

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  A fucking taser, Sean. A fucking taser.

• 1:13:54Shawn Ryan?

  Do you know what happens when you get tased?

• 1:13:56Speaker 02

  I've been tased.

• 1:13:57Shawn Ryan?

  You can't fucking move.

• 1:14:07Speaker 02

  It's weird because police say they fail often and don't stop most people.

• 1:14:13Shawn Ryan?

  I'm not going to take that fucking chance. Not a chance in hell.

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  See, I mean, that's, this is an interesting point because I think it.

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  Especially people like me, we have a different opinion on what we should expect from our men and women in law enforcement. And my, my, my expectations may be unrealistic, they may be.

• 1:14:44Speaker 02

  But the law, the law, the thing that they're supposed to enforce, it says you cannot shoot someone in the back. Court precedent has held that over and over again. And until it's overturned, that's the fucking law. Marijuana is legal in many states. It's illegal here. It's the court precedent. That's the way the law works.

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  Sucks, but that's the law.

• 1:15:15Speaker 02

  I, I, I, I think it's hard to ignore. I mean, you're a police officer, you're here to enforce the law.

• 1:15:21Shawn Ryan?

  You're not there to die because somebody fucking shot.

• 1:15:26Speaker 02

  That cop wasn't gonna die.

• 1:15:28Shawn Ryan?

  How do you know that?

• 1:15:31Shawn Ryan?

  And where's the fucking accountability for this civilian?

• 1:15:34Speaker 02

  He's dead.

• 1:15:36Shawn Ryan?

  Why did he fucking take a taser out of a fucking officer's belt? He took a, stole a weapon out of an officer's fucking belt?

• 1:15:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, no, I mean, it was-

• 1:15:49Shawn Ryan?

  Where's that accountability? Like, everybody seems to skip over that.

• 1:15:54Speaker 02

  I, I do think that is fair. And what I would say to that is

• 1:15:59Speaker 02

  a couple of things. One, the guy was fucking super intoxicated, we do know that. And two,

• 1:16:08Speaker 02

  just the benefit that you, you give, you, you'd said earlier, you know, about making split decisions. If you're being fucked with by the police and you don't wanna be, are you gonna defend yourself against the cops if you don't feel like you fucking wanna go with them? Yeah, probably. So the same adrenaline, the same split, you know, second decision making.

• 1:16:28Speaker 02

  I think that becomes kind of a primal thing at that point. You know?

• 1:16:33Speaker 02

  I can't give you a good rea- like, I'm not gonna sit, I'm not defending the guy, I mean,

• 1:16:38Speaker 02

  he made a decision, and that decision costed him his life.

• 1:16:41Shawn Ryan?

  That's right, it did. He made a fucking decision, and it cost him his life. And if you think that grabbing a gun out of an officer's or a taser, which looks exactly like a gun when it's in the belt, out of a fucking officer's belt, and try to shoot him with it is a good decision,

• 1:17:04Shawn Ryan?

  I mean,

• 1:17:07Shawn Ryan?

  that's fucking Darwinism, if you ask me.

• 1:17:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I hear you.

• 1:17:15Shawn Ryan?

  I am not going to allow you to kill me because of a fucking law that says, "I can't shoot you in the back when you're shooting at me." Not a chance in hell. And I don't think you would either.

• 1:17:28Speaker 02

  But here's, and, and, yes, you're right, you are right.

• 1:17:33Speaker 02

  I agree with you.

• 1:17:35Speaker 02

  But the problem there is that

• 1:17:39Speaker 02

  the accountability,

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  and we, we've seen this with civilians.

• 1:17:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm not gonna take that fucking chance, and I am gonna fucking kill you. But I will, but that choice that I make will more than likely land me in prison.

• 1:18:00Speaker 02

  For the police, it doesn't.

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  That accountability breakdown right there doesn't make any sense.

• 1:18:10Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I mean, I think the only fucked up thing is that you would wind up in prison and they would not. Because you should not wind up in prison if that were the case.

• 1:18:21Speaker 02

  What did it ask that?

• 1:18:22Shawn Ryan?

  Simply defending your fucking life.

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  Well, I just, I, I think it is kind of, I mean, and, and you know this from, from being an instructor, I mean, the, oh, man, like, it's drilled into you. You know, I, I'm a new gun owner. They made it very clear, very, very, very clear, that if you fucking use deadly force, you better be 110% certain that it's justified. Because it's not.

• 1:18:54Speaker 02

  Just a little bit, probably fucked. And you will spend thousands of dollars and a good majority of your life trying to fight it to stay out of prison.

• 1:19:10Speaker 02

  The police have been in some pretty openly,

• 1:19:16Speaker 02

  I don't even say question, I'm gonna say bad shoots, clearly cold-blooded murder. And they have walked.

• 1:19:26Speaker 02

  And I think that's why civilians are so pissed off.

• 1:19:30Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, that I can understand. But these incidents that we just discussed,

• 1:19:38Shawn Ryan?

  I, I, I just can't, I cannot jump behind the civilian mindset of, you shouldn't have shot him. Like, I just can't, I can't, I have to fucking back the police on that one. No way in hell I would have done anything different. Well, I wouldn't have let the guy get to my fucking gun belt, but, um, but you know what I'm saying? If he did, and he was trying to shoot me with a taser and some, and it was going to incapacitate me to the point where he could pretty much have his way with me, I would have defended my life. I wanna come home to my wife. I wanna home, come home to my kids.

• 1:20:19Shawn Ryan?

  I wanna see my fucking parents again, and I'm not gonna let that piece of shit take that from me. When alls he had to do is just fucking listen and deal with it later.

• 1:20:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:32Shawn Ryan?

  You know?

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  And you, you'd ask like, where's the accountability for, you know, obviously in that instance, where's the accountability for?

• 1:20:43Shawn Ryan?

  The civilian.

• 1:20:43Speaker 02

  The civilian, when he's dead, but moreover, there are resisting arrest accountability.

• 1:20:50Shawn Ryan?

  Well, that was a resisting arrest.

• 1:20:52Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:20:52Shawn Ryan?

  I mean.

• 1:20:54Speaker 02

  Sure. Fling, another charge. If you look at any arrest record from somebody who, that the cops have roughed up, oh my god, it's a mile long. There, I mean, I can't even name them all, but there's a multitude of charges that they levy against someone when they resist arrest. It's not just resisting arrest. There are subcategories within that. So, there is accountability for civilians in that regard. The law is pretty clear. I mean, if, as a civilian, if you interact with the police and they tell you to do something, you don't do it, you either get arrested for resisting arrest, or failing, failure to comply, or you lose your life. There's really no middle ground.

• 1:21:35Speaker 02

  You know, there's one in particular, one police shooting of a white man, actually, that really, it's kind of when I...

• 1:21:48Speaker 02

  It made me really take a step back and say, hey, I think there's a problem with the police.

• 1:21:57Speaker 02

  And it's still out there. The police officer, actually, I think it was like a month ago, was found not guilty of any charges.

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  But it's, uh...

• 1:22:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, Daniel Shaver was his name.

• 1:22:20Speaker 02

  I would like you to watch this.

• 1:22:29Speaker 02

  And his body cam, but...

• 1:22:51Shawn Ryan?

  Did they kill him?

• 1:22:53Speaker 02

  Did they cut that shit out finally?

• 1:22:55Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:59Speaker 02

  So, I'm surprised they took that shit out.

• 1:23:05Speaker 02

  But it, I've seen the video a ton of times, it's terrible, but... So there, you know, you've got a civilian who's on his fucking knees.

• 1:23:13Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:23:13Speaker 02

  Crying, and their instructions are

• 1:23:21Speaker 02

  hard to follow. You're, you know, that's an impossible situation for a civilian. They were called there because, so it's in a hotel. Uh, they were called there because someone said they saw him waving a gun outside his hotel window. They recovered, no firearm. But, they shot him, on his knees. And you've got four or five officers with AR-15s aimed at this one guy on his knees. I don't see the fucking threat there, I guess. And when I, after I saw that,

• 1:23:54Speaker 02

  and the fact that that officer was, you know, it took forever to bring charges against him, but it's not felony.

• 1:24:05Speaker 02

  That's a hard one for me to, I, I can't find any justification behind that. That, a, a man weeping on his knees. I'm sure people can be good actors, but younger guy weeping on his knees, crawling to you. Very stressful situation for a civilian at that point. Not a whole lot for the cop. You're surrounded by, by your team in a hallway. You have the tactical advantage in every regard there. Guy's on his fucking knees.

• 1:24:34Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:24:35Speaker 02

  And they put holes in him.

• 1:24:38Speaker 02

  And they walked. That, to me, looks like cold-blooded murder.

• 1:24:45Speaker 02

  That's a white guy. It's a white guy. So you can take the race factor out of it, you know?

• 1:24:52Speaker 02

  I mean, does that seem like a good shoot to you?

• 1:24:54Shawn Ryan?

  No.

• 1:24:58Speaker 02

  And so it's, I think, you know,

• 1:25:04Speaker 02

  from where you see these demonstrations happening, and just the general distaste for police is that, on one hand, yeah, you will see a questionable, tough situation like the guy, the Wendy's, who, yeah, probably shouldn't fucking grab the taser out of the cop's pocket. Probably shouldn't have done that. Cost him his life.

• 1:25:27Shawn Ryan?

  Well, not probably. He should not have fucking done that.

• 1:25:30Speaker 02

  Oh, no, he, yeah, well, yeah, he shouldn't have done that, sure. But the public is no longer willing to give,

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  you know, the benefit of the doubt to the police officer because of shit like that. That man executed that guy on his knees. He executed him, is what he did. And he walked.

• 1:25:54Speaker 02

  And I'd be damned if he doesn't find another fucking agency to become a police officer at again.

• 1:26:05Speaker 02

  So...

• 1:26:08Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, I don't know what you want me to say to that, you know?

• 1:26:11Speaker 02

  No, sure.

• 1:26:12Shawn Ryan?

  It's fucked up.

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  It is fucked up. And that's, well...

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  I'm trying to put, because I'm trying to think, because I want to get you like a thing, a piece, like, kind of recapping what we've talked about.

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  Like, shit like that should not happen. And when it does, that's where accountability should come in. That cop, probably, in fact, I'm no 100% certain, should be tried for murder. Man convicted.

• 1:26:41Speaker 02

  It's on video.

• 1:26:47Speaker 02

  But he wasn't.

• 1:26:51Speaker 02

  And

• 1:26:54Speaker 02

  the public distrust seeing shit like that will only grow and, you know.

• 1:27:04Speaker 02

  And this keeps happening. You keep seeing unarmed people. Again, again, you know, to, to, to wrap it back to some of the things we initially talked about.

• 1:27:15Speaker 02

  I do understand that police have a dangerous job. I do understand that. And just like, you know, when we had Travis in here, yes, like been some calls where, oh, my God. Life was in danger and then he had to go deal with an old lady. But this narrative that the police are just walking in Yemen is just not fucking accurate. They're not. They're not in Yemen. They're not in Iraq. They're in fucking the US of A. Yes, there is crime here. Yes, there is murder. Yes, there are dangerous people. But by accord, according to the FBI statistics, it's not the, the police officers are not the target of that violence. They're not. Only forty-eight officers died of felonious acts.

• 1:28:00Speaker 02

  Forty-one of accidents not related to crime in any respect. Thirteen hundred civilians killed. That, that, that's ten times more.

• 1:28:10Speaker 02

  So it's, I, I, I, I do not and will not

• 1:28:15Speaker 02

  agree with this narrative that the police are just current, like constantly under, they're at war and that they are under fire all the time and that they're, they're being hunted. It's just not fucking true. The data, there's no data to support that.

• 1:28:29Shawn Ryan?

  Well, there is video footage of Los Angeles that just happened a couple of weeks ago of a man that walked up to the vehicle and shot two fucking officers in the head, correct?

• 1:28:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:39Shawn Ryan?

  So sometimes they are being hunted.

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  Sometimes.

• 1:28:42Shawn Ryan?

  Let's go back to Dallas, Texas. Do you remember that one?

• 1:28:45Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:28:45Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, sometimes they are being hunted.

• 1:28:47Speaker 02

  And the guy who did that?

• 1:28:49Shawn Ryan?

  What?

• 1:28:49Speaker 02

  Ex-police officer.

• 1:28:51Shawn Ryan?

  Well, that doesn't, that doesn't it, that doesn't even, that has nothing to do with it.

• 1:29:02Speaker 02

  But that made news.

• 1:29:03Shawn Ryan?

  My, my point is, they are in fucking danger. Am I saying all of them are in danger? No. Am I saying the guy that you just showed me? Was in danger? No. Am I saying, you know, I'm not, I can't fucking, I'm not, I'm not even trying to excuse all of them. What I am saying is sometimes these guys fucking deserve the benefit of the doubt. You know, in that particular instance, no.

• 1:29:29Shawn Ryan?

  You know? He doesn't. But, you know, and there are some places that are like a war zone. There are. If you look at the fucking statistics of Chicago and Detroit and St. Louis. There were more murders there than there were fucking dead in Afghanistan.

• 1:29:49Speaker 02

  Hmm, but those-

• 1:29:50Shawn Ryan?

  So, that

• 1:29:53Shawn Ryan?

  is just as bad as a fucking war zone.

• 1:29:55Speaker 02

  But those murders won't, weren't carried out against police. They were carried out among, Chicago specifically is usually inner-city gang violence. You know, rival gang members, not police. Mostly civilians, you know, bystanders getting killed.

• 1:30:11Shawn Ryan?

  What happens when you interject yourself into a situation like that?

• 1:30:16Speaker 02

  It's tough shit.

• 1:30:17Shawn Ryan?

  Right?

• 1:30:18Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:30:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:20Shawn Ryan?

  The violence gets directed at you.

• 1:30:24Shawn Ryan?

  That's what happens. If you interject yourself into that situation, then, so maybe it is, maybe we do, maybe we defund them? And we pull them out of all of the neighborhoods that don't want them.

• 1:30:39Shawn Ryan?

  And they'll just sort it out.

• 1:30:42Speaker 02

  Think that would go poorly.

• 1:30:44Shawn Ryan?

  I think that would go extremely fucking poorly. But sometimes, you know, maybe the best thing to do is just let people live in what the fuck they created.

• 1:30:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I agree with that.

• 1:30:56Shawn Ryan?

  Give them what they want. You don't want any police, you won't get any.

• 1:31:01Shawn Ryan?

  None.

• 1:31:04Speaker 02

  So, look, you know, kind of recapping the police topic. So, this is all really good, man. Um.

• 1:31:14Speaker 02

  So, I think we can all admit

• 1:31:18Speaker 02

  there is a problem. We are definitely seeing interactions between civilians and police becoming more violent and more lethal. This is statistically happening. And there are, you know, in 2019, fifty-five unarmed people, unarmed, shot dead by police.

• 1:31:43Speaker 02

  By contrast to, like, you know, you were asking for this percentage, but like, how many interactions the police actually have with civilians on a day-to-day basis? Yeah, that's probably a small margin of error. But fifty-five lives doesn't seem so small when you look at it that way. To me, at least. So...

• 1:32:08Shawn Ryan?

  It is a fucking dangerous job. It is, you know? And, uh, like, I'm not trying to excuse all of them by any fucking means, but the police do a lot of good shit, too. And that, nobody ever looks at the good they do. They never do. All they look at is the bad. Fifty-five people? I hate to tell you, that is a fucking very, very small number. And, you know, unfortunately, fucking people die. They do. Sometimes they die, you know? And I'm not saying that's excusable, but it's never going to be perfect. It is never going to be perfect, and fifty-five people is a very fucking small number when you look at the grand scheme of people,

• 1:32:51Shawn Ryan?

  of, uh, of, uh, how many people live in the US. It's like three hundred and fourteen million or some shit, I think. And, um, so fifty-five people out of three hundred and fourteen million people. What's that percentage? It's never gonna be perfect. I'm sorry, it's just never gonna be fucking perfect. That number is pretty fucking close to perfect.

• 1:33:20Speaker 02

  I would say that, you know, the, the total death count being, you know, thirteen hundred, yeah, that, that margin of error is pretty low.

• 1:33:30Speaker 02

  But, and yeah, the, the, by numbers, yes, fifty-five is low.

• 1:33:36Shawn Ryan?

  There's always room for improvement, and there's definitely improvements that need to be made. A hundred and fucking ten percent, I am with you on that.

• 1:33:46Shawn Ryan?

  There's no doubt, there's always room for improvement. They need, they need more, you know, they need, we need to hold them accountable, you know what I mean? When things are fucked up.

• 1:33:55Speaker 02

  I call them accountable in what way? I want to hear specifically on that.

• 1:33:58Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, that guy, the, the video that you showed me, I mean, that guy needs to be tried now. You know, and even, even commenting on that video, I don't know the fucking context of, of what happened before that. I don't, I don't know if there were more people in the room, I don't know. And I'm not saying that excuses them anyways, because

• 1:34:20Shawn Ryan?

  chances are, it doesn't. But, um, but, uh, yeah, I mean, and be held accountable in what way? In the same way they fucking hold civilians accountable. That's the way they need to be held accountable. But, you know, you can't fucking tell me that shooting somebody in the back isn't fucking justified, you know, and under certain circumstances. That's just not true. It's not fucking true. And, um, and, uh, you know,

• 1:34:50Shawn Ryan?

  they do have a dangerous job. They have an extremely dangerous job.

• 1:35:00Shawn Ryan?

  They need more training how to conduct business, doing that kind of a job. And, um,

• 1:35:08Shawn Ryan?

  and we don't give them enough credit either for what they do. I don't believe we give them enough credit. I also don't believe we hold, uh,

• 1:35:19Shawn Ryan?

  certain ones accountable, uh, you know, to the standard they need to be held accountable to. But.

• 1:35:31Speaker 02

  Yes, there's a problem and here and here are the core problems. One, you know,

• 1:35:37Speaker 02

  training and accountability. And the solution to this problem is, you know,

• 1:35:48Speaker 02

  well, increased training, but like the quality and caliber and type of training.

• 1:35:55Speaker 02

  And accountability as as a system as stringent as

• 1:36:02Speaker 02

  our military, I just think it should almost be more, you know, like it really is fucked up. And maybe just because I'm so far removed from it does not bother me one bit to think that, you know, we probably shot some unarmed people in fucking Iraq because you we sent you over there to fucking go to war. We did that. Our country fucking sent you there to go to combat. Different fucking ballgame. Run around fucking Nashville like shit me, man? Like it's a it's a it's a different place and are different circumstances with a different mission.

• 1:36:41Shawn Ryan?

  You're absolutely right, but I'm telling you like the context, you have to take the context.

• 1:36:47Speaker 02

  I'm saying the context is in your favor, not the cops.

• 1:36:52Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying. The the context of being in Iraq at war.

• 1:36:59Speaker 02

  Fucking up there makes sense.

• 1:37:03Speaker 02

  Routine traffic stop in a city you you fucking work the beat on every day.

• 1:37:12Speaker 02

  And you shoot a dude several times. It turns out he's unarmed. I don't know.

• 1:37:19Speaker 02

  Context seems to be kind of. Yeah, like it would make sense to me if you walked up to a car that you don't know if there's a fucking bomb in there or whatever, and you would expect that type of thing because of where you're at. But I don't think you can expect the same type of lethality from, you know.

• 1:37:43Speaker 02

  Your everyday American civilian.

• 1:37:45Shawn Ryan?

  Nah, you can't from your everyday American civilian, but if you know, if you're responding to a fucking violence, a, a, a domestic violence call in Antioch, where there's a murder every fucking night, that's different than responding to, uh, petty theft in Green Hills. Is it not, it's fucking way different. And you're interjecting yourself into a domestic violence call.

• 1:38:24Shawn Ryan?

  And you're getting shot at. Now you're at war. It's the same fucking thing.

• 1:38:30Speaker 02

  I don't know many domestic dispute calls and domestic violent calls that end with the police getting shot at.

• 1:38:36Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I'm not, I'm just, I'm just, it's context. I'm just giving you context. You have to take into consideration where this is happening and where it's not happening. You don't hear this shit happening in areas where there's a low crime rate. You hear this shit happening in areas where there's a high crime rate, correct?

• 1:38:56Speaker 02

  Generally, yeah.

• 1:38:58Shawn Ryan?

  When there's a high crime rate, the ballgame changes. That's just,

• 1:39:03Shawn Ryan?

  they have to, I mean, they have to protect themselves as well. And so, you know, I kinda wanna wrap this thing up, but, um,

• 1:39:14Shawn Ryan?

  you know, uh, I don't think that demonizing police is the right thing to do. I, that's why I wanna know this percentage. If the percentage is point five percent, which is probably even less than that, I'm really willing to bet it's less than that. You cannot demonize an entire fucking police force for point five percent. You just can't do it. You know, and, um, because you just chop the legs off of every other fucking cop out there who's trying to do good. And a lot of them are doing good. You know, we had a guy, uh, email, he, he,

• 1:39:59Shawn Ryan?

  he is under indictment because he responded to a

• 1:40:06Shawn Ryan?

  Call where a man drowned. I believe his six year old daughter.

• 1:40:12Speaker 02

  Fuck.

• 1:40:13Shawn Ryan?

  Held her underwater. I think they estimated uh like three or four minutes. In in Missouri, Kansas City, Missouri. He fucking drowned his kid. In a pond in the middle of December. Below freezing. That officer showed up and saved that little girl's life.

• 1:40:34Shawn Ryan?

  The only way you save your life is, you know, kids. Uh. When they drown in this cold water, they're easily revived, but she was fucking dead. He saved her. And then he knocked the shit out of the guy for drowning his fucking kid because his emotions got the best of him. Guess what?

• 1:40:52Shawn Ryan?

  That dude's being held accountable for beating the shit out of that guy. For saving a fucking girl. And slapping a dude who drowned a six year old girl.

• 1:41:06Speaker 02

  It's weird how that works.

• 1:41:07Shawn Ryan?

  That's pretty fucked up, isn't it? So anyways, what I'm saying is you cannot demonize an entire fucking. An entire uh occupation for. You know.

• 1:41:21Shawn Ryan?

  The point whatever percent that's bad. You have to, you know, reinforce the good and, you know, discipline the bad. And uh and and and as civilians, um.

• 1:41:35Shawn Ryan?

  We are not holding ourselves accountable. It is unacceptable to. Yank a weapon out of a cop's belt. It is unex- if you. Are being. Called upon, but you know, if if police are responding to you because of a domestic thing. A domestic violence or whatever the fuck it is. You don't. Fuck around and dig around in your car. If they tell you to put your hands up, you put your fucking hands up and that's it. And you deal with it later. You know?

• 1:42:07Shawn Ryan?

  You need to, as civilians, you need to hold yourselves accountable.

• 1:42:12Shawn Ryan?

  And that's not happening. That is not fucking happening. You know, Ed Calderon was just here, talked about a protester in Portland who threw a Molotov cocktail at a fucking cop.

• 1:42:27Shawn Ryan?

  But he missed, and the fucking thing set his own leg on fire. Who saved his ass? The fucking cops saved his ass. Didn't he?

• 1:42:39Shawn Ryan?

  There's some good. You wanna go protest? Go ahead. Let me put your fucking leg out. Then you can throw another fucking Molotov cocktail at me. Fuck you.

• 1:42:50Shawn Ryan?

  You know? Nobody's talking about this shit. It's only the bad. And that's making shit more dangerous. But, um, but, uh, and then lastly, you know, I think, uh, defunding is, is, is the wrong thing to do. And, and you've said it too, you know, it's the wrong phrase. You need to, they need to, uh, redirect the budget to where it needs to go, and they need to hold the fucking others, they need to hold the politicians accountable as well. Not just the fucking beat cop that's on the street trying to do his job and made a fucked up judgment call. Who's gonna pay? Or maybe he's not gonna pay. I don't know.

• 1:43:33Shawn Ryan?

  But you cannot just hold him accountable. Not when there's a fucking record. You know? You gotta hold a lot more accountable than that. And, um, and that's not happening either. So, you know, I think, uh, a, a, a, a

• 1:43:53Shawn Ryan?

  updated budget on where the funds are being spent is, is extremely important. I think accountability to the police is also important, and I also think accountability to this fucking civilians is also important. And, uh, you know, if you're not willing to take accountability for your actions, then you're just a fucking piece of shit. But.

• 1:44:17Shawn Ryan?

  Other than that, I'm...

• 1:44:22Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know what else to say.

• 1:44:24Speaker 02

  It's good shit, man. That's really good shit. Especially that zinger there. Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:44:33Speaker 02

  It's really good shit. And it's true. It's all true.

• 1:44:48Speaker 04

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