#2368 - Michael Button

Michael Button is a YouTuber whose videos investigate mysteries in ancient history. www.youtube.com/@MichaelButton1 Unlock yourself at https://join. WHOOP.com/jre for one month free Get anything delivered on Uber Eats. https://ubereats.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:13Joe Rogan?

  Good to see you, man. Nice to meet you.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  You too, man. Pleasure.

• 0:16Joe Rogan?

  I love your channel, man. It's really great.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 0:19Joe Rogan?

  You're really doing some really interesting videos. When did you get started?

• 0:24Speaker 01

  Thanks. Well, I only started the YouTube less than a year ago.

• 0:28Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  It's been a bit of a wild ride.

• 0:30Joe Rogan?

  I don't even know how I found it. It was like one of them YouTube recommends things. It just popped up. And I, uh, I don't remember which one it was. It was something on ancient history.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:41Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, "Oh, alright."

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was cool. I mean, yeah, I started just under a year ago, but no one started watching until like March. And then I think you saw me just after that point. And it's been a bit of a big, you know, journey since then upwards. And, but it's been very exciting and very happy to be here today. Very excited to be in Austin. And, uh, yeah, I'm looking forward to talk about some ancient history.

• 1:05Joe Rogan?

  So did you start off on a traditional academic journey? And then sort of get sidetracked into a YouTube career? Like, how did this work?

• 1:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, basically. So I studied ancient history at university for four years. Um, and I've always been interested in history. I've done history all the way through. Like, I was fascinated about history as a kid. And got to the stage in my life where it was, you know, thinking about going to university. So I thought, "I'll do ancient history at university and study there for four years." Graduated, all of that kind of stuff. But there came a point during my degree where I was kind of, you know, a little bit... I didn't quite agree with the kind of high-level ideas regarding the timeline of history and what we're taught about our ancient past. And it wasn't that I disputed anything that I'd been taught. And I have like great respect for the people that I met at university and my professors. And I don't dispute anything that we were taught actually on the course.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  But it was more the kind of high-level macro perspective of history that I found myself having more and more questions about. And, yeah, so...

• 2:08Joe Rogan?

  What bothered you? Like, what were the questions?

• 2:11Speaker 01

  It was kind of the big questions regarding the origins of civilization and how deep civilization goes and how complex human behavior, you know, I thought went way back further into history than what we were being taught. And... I wasn't too, I just didn't buy this idea that nothing happened for like vast stretch of time, because it was during my course that they found that modern humans, they made this discovery in Morocco in twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen, I think, and that was when I was at university.

• 2:41Joe Rogan?

  Was that Denisovens?

• 2:42Speaker 01

  No, no, Homo sapiens. So I can't remember this, it's called like the Jebbel Irud site or something like that, but they were modern Homo sapien remains. They thought they were Neanderthal initially because they were so old.

• 2:53Joe Rogan?

  How old were they?

• 2:54Speaker 01

  They're three hundred and fifteen thousand years old. Uh, that's kind of like the estimate, it goes up to potentially three sixty thousand years old. So they're super old and, yeah, they thought they were initially Neanderthals of this age, but then they discovered a few more and they were, they classified them as Homo sapien. And when I saw that, I was like, how is this not kicking up more of a fuss? Because before them, the oldest Homo sapien remains we had were around two hundred thousand years old, and that had been the case for like a decade or something, and before that it was like a hundred thousand years old. So this discovery pushed back the age of our species by another third, like a hundred thousand years. So I saw that and I was thinking like, how are we still basing our kind of idea of history around the fact that nothing happened for, you know, three hundred and ten thousand

• 3:35Speaker 01

  years and then everything happened in like the last, you know, ten thousand years since the Neolithic revolution? I just thought that was odd because, you know, we've been in this anatomically modern form for so long and yet we were being taught that nothing was, nothing had happened until, you know, the last ten thousand years and that just didn't make sense to me. So that's kind of where, where I started thinking about it and then we did this module at university, I remember called, uh, it was called something like cataclysms or something? And it was all about how in recorded history, natural disaster had a big impact on human societies and stuff like that, and how it, small, like tiny changes in climate could massively disrupt human civilization and bring them all crashing, crashing down. And the case study they used was something called the Late Bronze Age Collapse. Have you ever heard of the Late Bronze Age?

• 4:19Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's when all these like powerful influential civilizations at the kind of peak of human progress around one thousand B.C. all simultaneously came crashing down and no one was quite sure why it was, but the best theory we have is that it's, um... Like a kind of combination of climate factors which led to trade disruption, which led to societal unrest. And then all these empires, like the Hittite empire, the Syrian empire, the palaces of Mycenae in Greece, the Egyptian New Kingdom, all within a twenty to thirty, forty year period, all came crashing down at the exact same time. And I remember being hooked by that. I was like, that's so crazy. Like, we don't even know why this happened, but it was like a half-degree change in climate. And so I remember starting to research how, you know, bad a climate had been during history and how bad it had been, like, these big climatic episodes had been during prehistory.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  And I started thinking like, wow, if that had caused all these civilizations to collapse, just a tiny half-degree change in climate which caused drought, which led to those civilizations collapsing, some of the stuff that had been happening during prehistory was so much worse than that. And that got me thinking, like, how do we know that sophisticated human culture hadn't flourished, you know, ten thousand years ago, twenty thousand years ago, a hundred thousand years ago, two hundred thousand years ago, and collapsed due to climate change or a natural disaster, volcanoes, comet impacts, anything like that? And that's kind of what set me on the journey, that along with the, you know, the discovery of the remains in Morocco. And that really got me thinking about the story we've told regarding our past and how I wasn't quite sure.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  And, yeah, that's kind of what made me initially kind of break away from the traditional timeline that we were being taught.

• 5:55Joe Rogan?

  The term prehistory is weird, isn't it? Because it's like, according to what? What we find?

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:01Joe Rogan?

  You know, I mean, how do we know what historical? If there was a great cataclysm, like if the Younger Dryas impact theory is correct, what, you know, how much history would be written down? What would be left? How would you find it? What would you know?

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:15Joe Rogan?

  You know, we're, we're, that's one of the things that disturbs me the most is the arrogance that some academics have to having a definitive understanding of the exact timeline of agriculture, civilization, and then modern humans.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it annoys me. I feel like academics, as opposed to the alternative historians are kind of more saying, "We don't know, but here's a potential hypothetical scenario that could be possible." Whereas, I feel like more mainstream, for want of a better word. I don't really like using that because I don't think there's such a thing as a mainstream. It's not like there's a group of people that all collectively decide. But some particularly vocal mainstream historians and scientists seem to claim to know absolute truth about the past, and that's just stupid. Like, how can anyone know about what happened 100,000 years ago or 200,000 years ago? And it kind of gets me a little bit riled up because, at the end of the day, none of us know what happened back then. So I think a lot more possibilities are, you know, possible than what many people appreciate. And, yeah.

• 7:16Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever see, there was a video documentary back in the day, something about the mysteries of the Sphinx. And there was this archaeologist that was mocking Graham Hancock's ideas and Dr. Robert Schock's ideas about the timeline, saying, you know, talking about things that existed pre-10,000 years. And he was saying, "What ev-" he was like laughing. "What evidence is there of any civilization from 10,000 years ago?" This was literally, I think, around the

• 7:55Joe Rogan?

  same time that they discovered Gobekli Tepe. Like, this guy was mocking it. I think slightly thereafter, they discovered Gobekli Tepe, which threw everything into a tizzy. Because now you've got something that was absolutely covered, they believe intentionally, somewhere in the neighborhood of 11,000 years ago. After a year away, Canelo Alvarez is back in the ring, October 31st, facing undefeated Christian Mobily, live on Dzone. And DraftKings Sportsbook has you covered for the fight. With DraftKings Sportsbook, your number one sportsbook for live betting, you can stay connected as the action unfolds and makes your picks in real time. Whether you're locked in for the

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• 11:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think Gobekli Tepe is the biggest kind of smoking gun for, at least for the idea that civilization is older and more complex than the traditional model suggests. Because obviously, as you say, it's like 12,000 years old and it's massive megalithic pillars. I mean, you know about Gobekli Tepe. Probably most people listening to this will know about Gobekli Tepe, but it's such a clear sign that sophisticated human culture was present way earlier than the conventional timeline suggests. And I think that at least should throw a monkey wrench into a lot of these people's ideas regarding human civilization and when it began, because clearly the toolkit for civilization existed 12,000 years ago. So how, why couldn't it have existed a little bit earlier than that? And why, if it existed then, did it then take another 6,000 years for it to emerge

• 11:58Speaker 01

  in ancient Sumer, which is the kind of traditional thought to be the earliest civilization? So Gobekli Tepe is fascinating. I love it. It's a really interesting site. I think it will one day be classed as civilization. I'm almost certain that when enough time passes, we'll kind of look at that. And because it's a whole culture, the whole Tashkent culture, there's like 14 sites at least, and they all have this kind of megalithic architecture. They all have shared symbolism. They all clearly connected. Like, it's crazy how it's not defined as anything other than hunter gatherers. And if, even if you think that hunter gatherers built Gobekli Tepe, then you need to massively update the definition of what a hunter gatherer is, because clearly they had surplus.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  They weren't just building these sites in their spare time. And yeah, it's, it's a truly paradigm shifting site. But I mean, I mean, everyone kind of knows about Gobekli Tepe now.

• 12:50Joe Rogan?

  But not everyone, but, but also as spectacular as what they've discovered so far is, they have only unearthed 5% of it, which is even more bizarre.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:01Joe Rogan?

  Because you've got so much stuff that's underground. You have no idea what's on those pillars. You know, there's speculation that one of the pillars from Gobekli Tepe that is unearthed is some sort of a calendar of events. And they believe that it depicts some sort of a disaster, like that these. Whatever, how they're making these images to be associated with either an impact or something, but there's a timeline that's inscribed in these pillars.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's like a study that was written or a paper that was written and they think it's the pillar forty-three, I think it is, is kind of like a cosmic calendar and it's like a, almost a prediction model of an impact that could happen or already has happened and it's like a warning for the future. That, I mean, that is still disputed, but I mean, there's been good research that's done into that that suggests that's what it is. And it's certainly a site that has cosmic alignments and has been built with the stars in mind, which is something that we can say about so many ancient sites around the world, which is another thing that isn't really considered by, you know, quote-unquote mainstream archaeology, perhaps as much as it should be. So yeah, it's a fascinating site and I really think

• 14:15Speaker 01

  it displays a lot about how human ingenuity and civilization, I mean, people get a bit stuck with the word civilization because we have this very narrow definition of what civilization is.

• 14:27Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  Basically based on the old model of Mesopotamia, which is ancient Sumer. And because that was the earliest known civilization for so long, we kind of constructed this whole idea about what a civilization is purely based on Mesopotamia. But I don't see why that has to be what civilization is, because that was just one civilization and just because that was the earliest one we'd found for a long time and still is thought of as such, doesn't mean that that's the only way that humanity can flourish, because humans are so adaptable, we do so many different things and we're clever in different ways and we, you know, change to different environments. And I think that definition has really kept a lot of people kind of boxed in when thinking about how sophisticated human culture could

• 15:10Speaker 01

  flourish in different places, in different environments and with different pressures. I think that's kind of forced people to not consider what other possibilities are out there.

• 15:22Joe Rogan?

  I think it's even more fascinating if you consider the fact that ancient Sumer and, you know, that part of the world from about 6,000 years ago is where they're sort of hanging their hat, saying that this is the birthplace of civilization. But if you do have this evidence of Gobekli Tepe, and then we are talking about some sort of an ancient civilization that lived 12,000 years ago, like what happened? What happened, like what was the gap between that? And then it took 6,000 years before they started civilization back up again? Sort of a reimagining of civilization? Which makes you really, at least makes me really consider the possibility of a cataclysm, because if the people that survived, whatever they would be, you know, I mean,

• 16:07Joe Rogan?

  they would probably be living off the land, they'd probably be barely getting by, and barbaric for a long, long time. And if it really took 6,000 years to kind of like settle down again, that is fascinating to me.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it all ties into this idea that we've had that agriculture leads to civilization, but there's that bizarre thing that, you know, agriculture appears in multiple different places at pretty much the exact same time all over the world. And that's never made sense to me, because if agriculture was such a kind of vital invention for civilization to flourish, then why did no one invent it for, you know, 310,000 years?

• 16:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  And then in South America, in Mesopotamia, in ancient China, and you could argue there's other different places that, so to say, there's like South America and there's Central America, I mean, you could argue that's potentially connected, but a lot of people say it isn't. So how can agriculture, if it's such an incredible invention?

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Be invented by multiple people at the same time and then but no one else thought of it before. It doesn't it doesn't make sense to me.

• 17:13Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense they wouldn't figure out seeds. Like, how how do you not know eventually that these seeds are dropping and then you see seedlings that are coming out of the ground? Just that seems pretty logical and an easy connection. And then you'd say, oh, well, if we gather these seeds and go plant them over there, you know, maybe we can get some fruit trees over here.

• 17:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, look at that. It worked. Like, that doesn't that seems like you'd figure that out in one lifetime.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  I know. It's odd. But I think I think the idea is the idea always has been that it's because of the climate, right? So because of the Holocene, which is which began around 12,000 years ago, as we came out of that and we had kind of stable climate conditions that we still live in today, that's what enabled the invention of agriculture, right? But then the question I always ask is, what about all the other warm periods that have come in the past? If, as the idea is, that, you know, stable climate led to agriculture, then why couldn't such a thing have happened in the Emean period 120,000 years ago? Or there's been four distinct warm periods that have lasted for like over 10,000 years while modern humans have been around, at least. And obviously, these Morocco remains of Homo

• 18:23Speaker 01

  sapiens, it's unlikely they're the earliest Homo sapiens that ever lived. They're just the earliest we've found. So

• 18:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  We could be even older than that. So considering we've been through four distinct warm periods before the Holocene, and if the argument is that the Holocene was what led to the invention of agriculture due to the stable climate, then why couldn't it have happened in the earlier warm periods? That's the that's the question I've always asked myself and been fascinated by, but.

• 18:47Joe Rogan?

  And the real problem is there would be very little evidence, if any.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. So this is the preservation problem, and this is something I talk about in my videos. So I kind of always ask the question, like, what if a human culture had flourished in the Emean, for example, which was from 130,000 to 115,000 years ago? What realistically would survive? Because

• 19:10Speaker 01

  It's such a vast, vast length of time that it's really unlikely, at least as far as I can tell, and obviously I'm not a scientist, I'm not like a, you know, a materialist, I'm not any kind of, I'm just a guy, I'm not even a historian technically, but as far as I can tell, it's extremely hard for these, for any materials, but even our modern materials in our huge civilization that, you know, eight billion people, industrial society, sending rockets to space, you know, all the crazy stuff that we're doing, even us, if we disappeared tomorrow, I think it would be extremely unlikely that pretty much anything would survive when you get up to these huge timescales of like a hundred thousand years. And so I've been doing quite a lot of, you know, research into this and because I don't, I obviously don't wanna, you know, get things wrong and put falsehoods out there and mislead people.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  I don't wanna look like a dickhead in front of like, like millions of people or whatever. So I've been trying to like, you know, debunk myself or play devil's advocate to myself on this point because, you know, that's the best way to make your argument airtight and no one's really out there debunking me. Um, I don't know if that's because I'm right or because like no one knows me, maybe that would change after a show like this, but I've been really looking into the kind of degradation of modern materials as much as I can and trying to work out how much would survive from a civilization like ours if we disappeared tomorrow in a hundred thousand years' time, so if you-

• 20:30Joe Rogan?

  Right, like someplace like London or Manhattan, like what would be left in a hundred thousand years?

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, of like an actual modern city. And the scary truth is it's, it's almost nothing, like there are-

• 20:41Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 20:42Speaker 01

  As far as I can tell, and obviously-

• 20:43Joe Rogan?

  Cement buildings that would just deteriorate?

• 20:45Speaker 01

  They would go, they would go like, concrete would crack and you'd get CO2 in there and freeze the weathering and over these huge timescales of like five thousand years, ten thousand years, they would just crumble down into dust and be absolutely imperceptible.

• 20:58Joe Rogan?

  Just ten thousand years.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  I think so, obviously these, I mean, I'm just doing this off the top of my head, I haven't got any notes in front of me or anything, but as far as I could tell from my research- It's gonna be a few like 10,000 years, 20,000 years max. It's not gonna get up to these timescales of 100,000 years.

• 21:13Joe Rogan?

  So if you do add in, if you think about what Manhattan would look like in 100,000 years, it's almost nothing.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  I would say it was nothing, to be honest.

• 21:22Joe Rogan?

  Nothing, and it would just get overrun by trees again.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, because there's just, there's, it's just such an incredible amount of time that all these materials that we build with are just gonna corrode and they're gonna, they're gonna rust away if they're metals, they're gonna oxidize, they're gonna flake until they're just tiny little fragments that just disperse in the sedimentary record and they're just invisible to see and same with concrete, same with even things like glass. I've heard a lot of people say that glass would potentially survive because glass is a, you know, it's a very durable material and glass would survive a long time, but glass in the form of a human-made recognizable artifact isn't gonna survive in that form. It's gonna get crushed, it's gonna break away into tiny little nano fragments into silica grains that are just invisible in the kind of archaeological record when you get up to

• 22:10Speaker 01

  these huge levels of time and yeah, I mean, there's, I would say almost nothing would survive that long and again with the caveat that I'm just some random dude who's investigated this on the internet and researched this myself, not a scientist. If anyone out there is a material scientist, I'd encourage them to reach out to me, but as far as I can tell, there are very few things that could possibly survive that long. I mean, we're pretty crazy fucking apes, like we do crazy shit. So things like nuclear weapons, like we test nuclear weapons in the atmosphere. You could argue if we knew when to look and what to look for, we could see traces of plutonium in the atmosphere from our nuclear weapons testing or you could see our nuclear waste deposits or things like carved stone, because stone obviously survives a very long

• 22:53Speaker 01

  time, human carved stone, you'd be able to find that, but we do find that. We find, you know, stone tools, but just because ancient humans used stone tools doesn't mean they didn't use anything else, it's just stone is the most likely thing to survive. And the crazy thing is. Like, do you, Joe, do you know how many sites we have Homo sapiens sites from more than a hundred thousand years ago?

• 23:14Joe Rogan?

  How many?

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Nine. We have nine sites, nine glimpses, nine snapshots into over two hundred thousand years of history, nine moments in time. And we use that to extrapolate out what every single human was doing.

• 23:29Joe Rogan?

  Nine globally.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Nine globally, yeah.

• 23:32Joe Rogan?

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• 24:18Joe Rogan?

  to give you a personalized Whoop age. Join whoop.com/jre and get a free trial. That's join dot whoop dot com slash j r e for one month free of Whoop. Check it out. And where are they mostly?

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Africa.

• 24:37Joe Rogan?

  And so what do they find? Like, what is the evidence?

• 24:41Speaker 01

  It's usually caves, and it's usually just, you know, remains of fire pits and stone tools. And that's kind of it. And so we see that and we think, okay, they just lived in caves and used stone tools.

• 24:51Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  But it's nine sites, nine moments in time for two hundred thousand years.

• 24:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, the problem is there's people that essentially live like that right now in some parts of the world. Which is really weird, right? Because we always want to think about technology and advancement of civilization being sort of universal, but it's really not.

• 25:10Joe Rogan?

  You know, there's people that are living a subsistence lifestyle right now. There's people that are uncontacted right now.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  At the same time as Elon Musk sending rockets to Mars and shit, yeah.

• 25:21Joe Rogan?

  Right. I mean, that's the weirdest ones is when you see them get invaded in the Amazon. When you see them contact these people and they're pointing bows and arrows at helicopters.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:31Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, they're naked.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. We're so adaptable. Humans can do so many different things. And as you say, right now, we're sending rockets to space and people are living in very traditional ways of life. And that, just because we find traditional ways of life in, I repeat, nine sites to cover 200,000 years, in my view, that's just what we can see. That's just the own, that kind of points to my point regarding what would possibly survive. Because if you think of all the human lives, stories, cultures that have potentially existed for our whole species existence, if we only have nine little glimpses from, and to be fair, that nine is, you could say it's up to 15 because some sites are debated, but either way, it's a

• 26:11Speaker 01

  tiny, tiny, tiny amount of human, you know, signs of human life. Just because in that fragment, in that snapshot, in that slither, all we see is some humans with stone tools in caves, doesn't mean that nothing else was happening, so.

• 26:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, a good piece of evidence to that, that would point in that direction is Egypt. Because Egypt, even if you accept the conventional timeline of Egypt, which is 2,500 B.C. for the Great Pyramid, go look at the rest of the world at 2,500 B.C. You don't see anything like that. Nothing even close.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, they were clearly, even if you kind of look at the conventional model of history, the ancient Egyptians were wildly ahead of everyone else.

• 26:53Joe Rogan?

  Everyone.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  It's just so weird.

• 26:54Joe Rogan?

  So weird.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  And that's if you, and the conventional model doesn't really give us any explanations of how they were doing, what they were doing.

• 27:01Joe Rogan?

  And they arrogantly dismiss any other explanations, which is really weird. When you're talking about these immense structures that are baffling.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:09Joe Rogan?

  Absolutely baffling to anybody who's being honest.

• 27:13Joe Rogan?

  What is your take on these Italian researchers that are looking at the tomography? And they're looking at these things that they believe are underneath the Great Pyramid and some other structures in Egypt?

• 27:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, the, what's it called, like SARS toppler? I mean, I don't know, I'm always a little bit suspicious when you make sensationalist claims with new technology. And that doesn't mean it's wrong, I just, that just...

• 27:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you have to be suspicious, because it's bonkers.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 27:38Joe Rogan?

  What they're saying is two kilometers deep underneath the Great Pyramid, there's structures, and there's hundreds of meters of these pylons, these pillars that are in uniform positions with some sort of a coil wrapped under around them. Like, what is that? Is that real? And they reproduce it in multiple different scans, but I don't know what they're seeing. I don't understand the technology, understand where the errors could be, like, what could possibly cause it to glitch like that?

• 28:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I would love it to be true, obviously, because, you know...

• 28:13Joe Rogan?

  I would love it.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  Can you imagine?

• 28:15Joe Rogan?

  That's the problem. The problem is, the same problem that I have with UFOs and everything else.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  You want it to be true.

• 28:20Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent. So it really clouds my judgment. And then I have to get my, you know, analytical mind to say, shut up.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:28Joe Rogan?

  Let's look at this honestly.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  But, I mean, I think, I mean, there's definitely something below the Giza Plateau. Like, that's always been written about in ancient sources, and these, these kind of scans, and then people kind of, you have stories of people going down into labyrinths that aren't, you know, accepted by Egyptology. And there's definitely massive mysteries surrounding Giza and the construction of the pyramids, and what could potentially be below the pyramids. And this kind of new pyramid scan project has the potential, I think, to, you know, make big progress in understanding what is below Giza, but... I don't know, until there's better data out there, I am not gonna, you know, jump to any conclusions and declare that this is like evidence of, you know, a lost advanced technology civilization or anything like that.

• 29:14Joe Rogan?

  No, you can't, but I am so excited about just the possibility that they're right. Because if they are right, that throw, that's the greatest monkey wrench into history that's ever existed, because explain away that

• 29:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:29Joe Rogan?

  with ancient people with stone tools and or copper, like, explain that away.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  They'd probably try, mate, because it already doesn't make sense, their explanation for the construction of the pyramids being wooden sledges and and stone chisels or whatever they say. It already doesn't make sense. It's already so ridiculous that I wouldn't even be surprised if they tried to explain away these massive columns.

• 29:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, it'll discredit them, because the problem is, if it does indicate that the pyramid is something other than a tomb, you know.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  There's not, I don't even see any evidence that the Great Pyramid at Giza, I mean, what's the evidence that that was a tomb? I mean, I don't think they've ever found a body in there.

• 30:05Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  It's just a chamber which they've called the King's Chamber.

• 30:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm not an expert in ancient Egypt by any respect, but it's always baffled me that they're so determined that the pyramids are tombs, just because some later pyramids have had, you know, mummies and pharaohs and sarcophagi found inside them, but.

• 30:23Joe Rogan?

  That doesn't mean anything, and that that doesn't mean that they built it. That also could mean that the pharaoh decided that it was his and wanted to be buried inside of it, and it had existed for thousands of years before they ever even got there.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  And you can, you find bodies in like, you know, buildings today, and that doesn't mean the purpose of that building was to be a tomb.

• 30:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  It's just someone's buried there, so someone, yeah, as you say.

• 30:43Joe Rogan?

  It's a weird assumption. It's a very weird assumption. And did you ever read any Christopher, uh.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Christopher Dunn, yeah.

• 30:51Joe Rogan?

  Christopher Dunn's work.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  I know a bit, I haven't read his book, but I know a bit about it. It's interesting. I mean, he's like a serious guy, isn't he?

• 30:56Joe Rogan?

  He's an engineer.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Exactly, and he has quite serious theories that.

• 31:00Joe Rogan?

  He thinks it's a power plant.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, which would be crazy, wouldn't it?

• 31:05Joe Rogan?

  Especially if you you add into that the Graham Hancock's ideas and some of these other people's ideas that perhaps some of these structures are far older.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  With the kind of Orion correlation and the Sphinx.

• 31:18Joe Rogan?

  Also the fact that the the deeper you go into the sand, the more sophisticated the building techniques are. That gets weird, like larger stones, like what happened?

• 31:29Speaker 01

  The whole of like ancient Egypt and the Sahara Desert in general just doesn't make sense to me because when you look at the Sahara Desert and the fact that it was green for nine thousand years and then it stopped being green at precisely the time that we're told ancient Egypt emerged, that doesn't make sense. That defies how civilization works. Why would a civilization only emerge after the climate got worse?

• 31:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  That doesn't make sense at all, like.

• 31:54Joe Rogan?

  And so little research done in sub-Saharan Africa where they've actually gone into the ground and done like large scale research of these immense areas.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Nothing, nothing. The Sahara Desert is vast and obviously covered in sand and extremely hot, extremely difficult to survey, politically unstable, and there's basically been no archaeological work done across the whole. And Sahara Desert is massive. It's like the whole of North Africa, right down to, I mean, it's massive and.

• 32:20Joe Rogan?

  You could fit the United States in there.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  You could fit anything in there, like a whole like preceding civilization for nine thousand years leading up to ancient Egypt. Like, it's the perfect place. It's right by Mesopotamia. It's right by Egypt. And yet we have this blank spot for the nine thousand years before the development of civilization, which is kind of also the gap between, I mean, it's a little bit less than this, but the gap between Kebekli Tepe and the birth of civilization. We have this huge area which would have been perfect for civilization, full of rivers, lakes, grasslands, perfect climate, and it's just missing.

• 32:53Joe Rogan?

  Also abundant resources where they could establish a stable civilization because they had so much food and and they weren't being attacked. So they could kind of set up shop and figure some things out.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:06Joe Rogan?

  Over a long period of time.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. So my theory is that things were happening in the Sahara Desert when it was green, in the green Sahara for those nine thousand years. Nine thousand years and then because it was really quick, that's what I don't think people realize is that when the Sahara Desert turned from, you know, green lush paradise, whatever you want to call it, to a desert, it was like a few centuries. It's called rapid desertification and it it flipped, not overnight, obviously, but in a few centuries compared to nine thousand years is a rapid change. And for any kind of culture that was living there, you wouldn't have noticed it straight away, but in 50 years, you'd be like, fuck, it's getting a bit hot here. Do you know what I mean? Like shit is going on. And then I think maybe people migrated to the last stretch of green that was still available to them, which was the Nile River.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  And then the kind of survivors or the migratory populations developed around the Nile River and using the kind of experience and knowledge that they had from their lives and the kind of history of their cultures in the Green Sahara period, that is what led to ancient Egypt. I mean, that's just a.

• 34:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also just an assumption that ancient Egypt didn't exist alongside that or even previous to that, which is also possible, especially when you consider what Robert Chalk thinks about the erosion, the water erosion, the Temple of the Sphinx.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, the kind of explanation away of that also never made sense to me that it's wind and sand because when you see pictures of the Sphinx, even from when they kind of found it in Napoleonic times, it's buried in sand.

• 34:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  And there's records from the Egyptians themselves who, you know, took excavated it effectively because it was covered in sand. So if it quickly gets covered in sand, how could it be eroded by wind and sand if it doesn't take very long for it to, you know, kind of get filled up with sand? Then how does wind and sand erosion even count? I've never seen anyone kind of explain that away.

• 34:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's the walls that are the most fascinating to me because the the deep fissures that clearly look like rainfall. It looks like something that water does over thousands of years.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:05Joe Rogan?

  You know, and when you.

• 35:06Speaker 03

  There's whales that were the whale, the Valley of the Whales.

• 35:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:10Speaker 03

  It's just about, I don't know how many miles south, but it's south of Cairo.

• 35:13Joe Rogan?

  That's bonkers, too. That's crazy. They find whales, hundreds of whales in the desert. That's so great. Look at that image. That's so nuts. That is so nuts.

• 35:25Speaker 03

  Some of them had teeth and toes.

• 35:29Joe Rogan?

  So crazy, so crazy. And then it makes you wonder, like, how did those bones survive? Like, why are they there? Like, how quickly did they die? How quickly did they get covered up by sediment that they could find them all these years later? Because that's the weird thing about fossils and bones in general, is that most of them you're never going to find because they get eaten, they deteriorate, they're gone. Like, it's very difficult to make a fossil. You know, when you think about our, you know, quote-unquote fossil record, it's really weird because it's hard to make a fossil. So we're dealing with a very small amount of beings that get turned into a fossil.

• 36:12Joe Rogan?

  And that is what we're using as our understanding of, like, life.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:20Joe Rogan?

  It's weird.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  It is weird.

• 36:21Joe Rogan?

  Because it's so limited.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  I'm not sure, when was the, do you know when the Sahara was covered in water? I'm not even sure when that was. I mean, some people say that there's like a mass flood during the kind of younger, driest period, which I think is...

• 36:31Joe Rogan?

  I think they're talking about millions of years ago for these bones. How old are these whale bones supposed to be? But I think millions of years ago, it's assumed that it was completely underwater, right? So are we talking like Pangea times? Like, what are we talking about about that?

• 36:48Speaker 01

  But even not too long ago, like, you know, kind of 12,000 years ago, whatever, they had these massive river systems, like the Tamara River system.

• 36:56Joe Rogan?

  Here it is.

• 36:57Speaker 03

  Forty million years old.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:59Joe Rogan?

  Forty million years old!

• 37:01Speaker 03

  But I don't know about the whales.

• 37:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god.

• 37:03Speaker 03

  Primitive whales.

• 37:05Joe Rogan?

  Primitive whales documenting, how do you say that word? Cetacean? How do you say that word? Cetacean transition? Is that how you say it? Cetacean transition to marine life, Cerydians and reptiles as well as shark teeth from the Gannaham Formation, 40 to 41 million years ago. The Strata in, I don't say that either. Wad al-Hitan belongs to Middle Eocene epoch, and it contains extensive vertebrate fossils within a 200-kilometer area. Fossils are present in high numbers and often show excellent quality of preservation. The most conspicuous fossils are skeletons and bones of whales and sea cows.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  What's a sea cow?

• 37:50Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 37:51Speaker 03

  Uh, what's a manatee?

• 37:52Joe Rogan?

  You ever see the, the precursor to whales, like where whales came from?

• 37:56Speaker 01

  No, where did they come from?

• 37:57Joe Rogan?

  It was an ancient animal that was like a, almost like a hoofed wolf.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  What, sea, sea animal?

• 38:04Joe Rogan?

  No, it was a land animal. That's why they breathe air.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  Of course, they're mammals, aren't they?

• 38:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  That's weird.

• 38:10Joe Rogan?

  It's super weird. It's super weird. It was some animal that supposedly lived on land. And it was real freaky looking, almost kinda like dog-like.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:21Joe Rogan?

  And that thing eventually said, I just like swimming.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  I'm gonna go back into the sea.

• 38:27Joe Rogan?

  And then one day it said, I'm never going back to the land. It's filled with assholes. I'm just gonna live out here in the ocean, where all you have to contend with is sharks.

• 38:35Speaker 03

  This article calls it the god of death whale.

• 38:38Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that's what it looked like. That's what it looked like.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  That's pretty terrifying.

• 38:42Joe Rogan?

  But there's some images of it on land, um, some depictions. Yeah, that's what it looked like. That freaky thing was what whales came from. That thing walked around the ground. And then eventually said, eh.

• 38:54Speaker 03

  If it's forty million years ago, is that what those skeletons are then? Maybe?

• 38:59Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Interesting. Some of them maybe, right? Cause they do know the thing, it was when whales walked in Egypt. Wow. I was watching, um, I think, I don't remember whose podcast it was. I wish I could remember. But they were, we were talking to some guy that found definitive evidence of dinosaurs in Egypt. So if you go back far enough, there were dinosaurs living in that part of the world as well. What's that one image you just saw, right there with the, the mouth open? Yeah, that one. That's crazy looking. Prehistoric whale ancestor. Look at that thing. Whoa. That's crazy.

• 39:35Speaker 03

  Here's the sea cows.

• 39:37Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 39:39Speaker 03

  This one, this image says a prehistoric sea cow was killed by a prehistoric croc.

• 39:43Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 39:44Speaker 03

  And eaten by a tiger shark. I don't know.

• 39:46Joe Rogan?

  Boy.

• 39:48Joe Rogan?

  Life is hard where there's no doors. That's the problem with the ocean. There's no doors. There's nowhere to hide.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, you get fucked up.

• 39:55Joe Rogan?

  Constant chaos. It is just constant things eating things in this 3D space. Where they can go up and down and side to side and...

• 40:04Speaker 01

  That's just nature, isn't it, man? Everyone's just killing everything else.

• 40:07Joe Rogan?

  Yes. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well-groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parmigiana delivered. A day in the sun? No. A bottle of rum? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that for almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  We made it.

• 40:44Joe Rogan?

  But we figured out doors.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  We did.

• 40:46Joe Rogan?

  We figured out walls and doors and that changed the game.

• 40:48Speaker 01

  But when did we do that, Joe? That's the question.

• 40:50Joe Rogan?

  That is the question.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Because a lot of people would claim to think and the kind of consensus always is that we didn't do that until 12,000 years ago. We didn't settle down and form permanent communities until the Neolithic Revolution. And I think that's one of the major paradigms, if you like, that we have regarding our past that simply doesn't make sense in light of new evidence. And I just...

• 41:12Joe Rogan?

  What is that evidence that they found of wood construction from far longer than they thought?

• 41:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is the Colombo Structure. And this is something I talk about a lot in my videos because I think it's a crazy find and I don't understand why it's not kicking up more of a fuss. Like, if I'm the guy that has to kick up the fuss about it, then I'll be that guy because because basically, we've... The idea has always been that humans were nomadic hunter-gatherers that moved with the seasons and lived in caves or just kind of walked around for all of our history until the Neolithic Revolution, the invention of agriculture 12,000 years ago. And no earlier than that did we ever settle down and live in permanent settlements. But the Colombo Structure was something they found a few years ago in modern-day Zambia. And what it is, is this...

• 42:01Speaker 01

  These pieces of wood, and I'll get to the point about why this wood has survived in a minute, because obviously, you know, wood surviving this long is crazy, but there you go. Yeah, so the Colombo structure is these pieces of wood that have been joined together deliberately, cut in notches and connected together, tapered and secured at right angles. And they think it was either a kind of raised walkway, like a kind of raised platform, or a house, a dwelling, a hut, some kind of structure. And why this is so paradigm shifting is because not only does this kind of scream that humans potentially lived in permanent settlement, sorry, I haven't even said this. This is 476,000 years old, so this predates Homo sapiens, so.

• 42:43Joe Rogan?

  Allegedly.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Allegedly, as in, what do you mean allegedly? Oh, because.

• 42:46Joe Rogan?

  Because we recently found out that they lived 300,000 years ago.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  I guess, yeah, it could have been us. But what they attribute it to is Homo hadobegensis, who's our last common ancestor with Neanderthals. So they're kind of the human species that came before Homo sapiens. So I guess you're right, it could have been Homo sapiens, and we're just not sure how old we are. But it's. It's kind of attributed to Homo hadobegensis. And the only reason this structure survived at all is because pretty soon after its construction, it must have fallen into a bog. And then that bog kind of got solidified over by the sun. And then it was preserved in waterlogged sediment, which protected it from decay for almost half a million years, until it was discovered by us recently.

• 43:28Joe Rogan?

  How recent?

• 43:29Speaker 01

  I think about five years ago, maybe. Was it 2019 or something? I'm not 100% sure. But, I mean, it's crazy. It lasted so long.

• 43:36Joe Rogan?

  Another monkey wrench.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say it's a massive monkey wrench, because not only does it kind of really dispute this idea that we didn't settle down until, you know, 12,000 years ago with the Neolithic Revolution, because I mean, it's a, it's a structure. I mean, and it's just because it's so unlikely, it's so unbelievable that this would have survived. But that kind of suggests that it's, it's not the only one.

• 43:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  There could have been loads of these, like, structures everywhere.

• 44:02Joe Rogan?

  But as you said. Manhattan.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:06Joe Rogan?

  Wouldn't live, wouldn't exist in a hundred thousand years. So this is four hundred and seventy six thousand years.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's ridiculous.

• 44:12Joe Rogan?

  And it's just wood, which is less durable than all the other things that we were talking about.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, and obviously, people may be saying, well, look, clearly things survive. But this is an extreme edge case scenario where it's, it's like so unbelievably unlikely that this wooden structure would kind of sink into a bog and then that bog be, you know, solidified over and then it would stay in that preserve.

• 44:31Joe Rogan?

  And then that they would find it.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  And then they would, they would find it, exactly, because, you know, one of the chances.

• 44:35Joe Rogan?

  You have to go four hundred and seventy six thousand years into the sediment.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, because we don't dig that far and look for anything sophisticated because we think, you know, nothing happened back then. And then you find this and it really suggests that humans were living in much more complex societies and they, I mean, they, the fact that they had the cognitive capacity to plan, structurally engineer and build a structure completely flies in the face of what we've always thought about ancient humans because we've always had this idea that, there's been this very popular idea in, in kind of mainstream historical thought that humans only got smart around fifty to sixty thousand years ago. And that's just Homo sapiens. We've always thought that other human species never got smart, never achieved what we call behavioral modernity.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  And this has always been the kind of idea that we went through this cognitive revolution around fifty to sixty thousand years ago. And the, the most obvious proponent of how entrenched this is in kind of academic thought is, have you ever read the book Sapiens?

• 45:35Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, by Yuval Noah Harari. It's an extremely popular book. It sold something like sixty million copies worldwide. By far the most popular book about prehistory and, you know, the story of Homo sapiens ever written. And Sapiens didn't kind of do anything new. It didn't, I think Harari himself would admit this, it, it didn't.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  It didn't, it, it, it kind of just collected the consensus of academia and presented it in a nice, digestible way to the kind of layman audience. But he took this idea that's always been present in academia regarding human intelligence, which is that while we've been around for quite a long time, we didn't achieve behavioral modernity until 50,000 to 60,000 years ago. And that's when we started apparently displaying complex cognitive traits like abstract thinking and planning and burying our dead.

• 46:26Joe Rogan?

  Art.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  Art, yeah, exactly, and complex language and things like that. But this just completely flies in the face of that, because if we had the capability to plan, construct and engineer a structure 476,000 years ago, that means, you know, mainstream anthropology was off by over 400,000 years regarding the advent of intelligence and the advent of permanent living. And that's, I mean, that's quite the era.

• 46:52Joe Rogan?

  It's a big deal.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  400,000 years, exactly. So that kind of suggests they could be off by similar margins about other developmental claims, because, I don't know, it's a big, big era.

• 47:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also when you think about the history of the earth, there are times that we know that there was, like, there's great bottlenecks that occurred because of some sort of a massive natural catastrophe, like the Toba volcano.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:14Joe Rogan?

  Right, the Toba volcano, which was 70, 70,000 years ago? Was that what it was?

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Something like that, yeah.

• 47:22Joe Rogan?

  Brought people down to a few thousand survivors.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:26Joe Rogan?

  On earth.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and there's loads of these bottlenecks.

• 47:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  When you look at our kind of genetic history, and I mean, does that suggest that something happened?

• 47:33Joe Rogan?

  Right, well, well, you're thinking about what evidence there is, and then you think about, well, there's no one left except a few thousand people 70,000 years ago, so it's possible that there's been this rise of some sort of a civilization and then massive catastrophe and a rebuilding, just like if we're talking about the Younger Dryas, which is in this time period we're talking about, you know, when you're dealing with 476,000 years ago, fairly recent, right?

• 48:01Speaker 01

  Very recent.

• 48:02Joe Rogan?

  Right, and think about the 6,000 years it took for civilization to reemerge from that. Now you think of Toba, and you knock down the entire population of the planet to, what did they think it was? See if you can find out what the number was. I think it was very low. I think it was below 3,000 people on earth.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:21Joe Rogan?

  On Earth.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, just from one natural disaster.

• 48:23Joe Rogan?

  One massive supervolcano, which is, by the way, just like Yellowstone.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  There's lots. It could all happen again.

• 48:31Joe Rogan?

  That motherfucker is bubbling, too. Um, here it is. Uh, potentially, almost all of humanity, leaving around 3,000 to 10,000 humans left on the planet.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 48:43Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  And supervolcano isn't the only thing. There's so many others.

• 48:47Joe Rogan?

  What time period is this, Jeremy? Seventy-four thousand years ago.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  So that's quite recent.

• 48:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  In terms of our story.

• 48:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, in terms of your theory that I thought was one of the most interesting ones that you brought up, um, that in your videos, you were talking about how anatomical humans, just based on what we've agreed to, based on what we found 300,000 years, like, what are the possibilities that there have been civilizations that emerged and were destroyed, and then there's no evidence of them?

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, because, I mean, aside from the preservation problem, which we kind of already talked about, when you get up to these massive timescales, you know, very little's gonna survive. Especially when you think about what early humans were likely building with.

• 49:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  Like, it's probably the things they could find in their environment, like wood, hide, plant remains.

• 49:35Joe Rogan?

  You'd have nothing left. Just look at what we know about the Amazon now.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:39Joe Rogan?

  Because of LIDAR and because of, you know, what is his name? Percy? Percy Fawcett. Because these people that made these journeys down there looking for these complex civilizations that at one point in time, now we know, did exist there.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:53Joe Rogan?

  And just 100 years later, they called those people liars because they went back to the same place and there was nothing left.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's always been, you know, thought of as myth or pseudoscience, that it's kind of the most popular idea of lost civilizations was civilizations of the Amazon, and it was always dismissed.

• 50:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, here's what's really crazy. Have you seen Detroit? Have you seen the evidence of Detroit where trees are going through houses?

• 50:16Speaker 01

  And that's like 50 years, less. Or if you look at Chernobyl, the kind of exclusion zone where no one lives, it's already like trees everywhere and like, nature is already taking root after less than half a century.

• 50:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, bizarre.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  And then you, 100,000 years, that's seriously what's gonna be left.

• 50:32Joe Rogan?

  Very, very little. And then if you go 200,000 years, I mean, if anatomically modern humans, if we've discovered them at 300,000 years, what if somebody digs one up that's 2 million years old? Then what do you do? Then you gotta go, oh, boy. Oh, boy. And then there's also this thought that Neanderthals were stupid. They're kind of abandoning that now, too. They're thinking they had language, they had tools, they had society.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  They definitely did. There's so much evidence, and this kind of puts into the cognitive revolution argument, which is, you know, that we were the only smart species. Like, our name that we gave ourselves, Homo sapiens, literally means smart man. It's always been the idea that we're the smartest humans, and that's why we won. And to be fair, we did win.

• 51:15Joe Rogan?

  We did win.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  Win, whatever you want to call it.

• 51:17Joe Rogan?

  We might just be the most evil.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, we might be the most evil, always might be the luckiest ones, you know?

• 51:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, we're the weakest, so we probably had to be evil.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 51:24Joe Rogan?

  We had to figure out weapons that would be able to defeat the Neanderthals, who had, by the way, larger brain capacities than Homo sapiens.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  They were just as intelligent as us, to be honest.

• 51:32Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, that's a claim that probably some people would dispute, but I think there's lots of evidence that they were very smart, and...

• 51:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, necessity is the mother of invention, right? And if you're physically weaker than these other things that are as intelligent as you and far stronger, like, you gotta, you gotta get devious. You gotta figure some stuff out.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  But like, did we even, I mean, either, I mean, maybe they got wiped out by something like disease, or did they even get wiped out? Because if you even look at the DNA of non-African humans, it's something like 20% in some populations is Neanderthal.

• 52:08Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  They're kind of still here.

• 52:10Joe Rogan?

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• 52:52Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients.

• 53:37Joe Rogan?

  They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friends something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only. Well, they just sort of interbred. Yeah. Which is also weird, because most species can't breed with other species.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:16Joe Rogan?

  Just, you know.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  But we're very, I mean, we're very closely related to the underdogs.

• 54:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's weird. The whole history of humans is weird, and for academics to deny this possibility, to me, seems so short-sighted.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  I know.

• 54:32Joe Rogan?

  And silly.

• 54:33Speaker 01

  I think we're on the brink of quite a massive shift in our perspective regarding prehistory.

• 54:38Joe Rogan?

  I think so too, and I think it has to happen where, I don't mean to say this to be cruel, but they, the old people have to die.

• 54:44Speaker 01

  There's that quote, isn't it? "Science advances one funeral at a time."

• 54:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  I hope it doesn't take that long, though, to be honest, Joe. I hope it, I hope it's just in the next few years.

• 54:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, the good thing is a lot of scientists don't take care of themselves, so. Which is also weird. When you see super intelligent people that are obese and eat terrible food.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Or health experts that are such.

• 55:03Joe Rogan?

  Yes, air quote, health experts, not real ones. But it is, to me, a great disservice. And one of the things that I find very promising is that a lot of young academics are embracing a lot of alternative ideas, whether quietly or whether they're doing it publicly.

• 55:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I think the advent of the internet and, you know, shows like this or the medium of podcasting has really kind of democratized the access to information and allowed people with theories that potentially wouldn't have been able to get out there in the pre-internet age where they were kind of, you had to go through a kind of academic institution to get a theory heard or debated. Now, anyone can say anything, for better or worse, and that can, you know, reach millions of people. And then, if it's an idea that's popular, then it can kind of be in the public eye and then it can be debated properly. And I think that's only a good thing. Obviously, there are negative aspects to that. But I think that will increase, you know, ideas regarding prehistory, for example.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  I think it will increase the rate in which these things will get accepted because, once the evidence is out there and once you start, you know, talking about the Colombo Structure, for example, and how it completely flies in the face of both these paradigms regarding permanent living and human intelligence, it's out there now. But people can look it up and people can see that this is completely kind of opposed to what we've always been taught regarding prehistory.

• 56:29Joe Rogan?

  And isn't it kind of arrogant to assume that they know who built it too? That's weird too, because they're basing it on this assumption that human beings didn't exist back then, at least Homo sapiens didn't exist back then, which is also being challenged over and over and over again.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, the fact they base it on Hadal begensis is literally just because we found some Hadal begensis remains like 200 kilometers away. And they're like, okay, what was Hadal begensis? I mean, it could have been, to be fair, but...

• 56:54Joe Rogan?

  It could have been, but I mean, right now, there's people that are living in Africa and 200 kilometers away from them are apes. So if one day they found structures, you know, in the future and said, oh, these are made by chimpanzees.

• 57:07Joe Rogan?

  That's kind of crazy.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's kind of crazy. I mean, that's the thing about history is it's all based on massive assumptions. It's not like a hard science. It's interpreting evidence. And that's fine. Like, that's how we do it.

• 57:16Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  That's why I don't.

• 57:18Joe Rogan?

  It's the only way to do it right now.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  It's the only way to do it. So that's why I don't get why people make these definitive conclusions and then don't allow anybody to kind of speculate or hypothesize about anything else.

• 57:28Joe Rogan?

  It's gatekeeping.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:29Joe Rogan?

  It's gatekeeping. It's academic gatekeeping. It's also this, these people that have been teaching this one thing forever being threatened by the fact they were wrong. The last thing an academic wants to hear is like, you wrote this book, this stupid book, this book misled people for decades. You were so wrong. Like, they will fight it with every ounce of their being because it's essentially their identity. Their identity is being the gatekeeper of their understanding of human history.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, they've built a whole career around it and they've, you know, as you say, it's their identity. They've been the knowledge, the keeper of knowledge on a particular subject and then.

• 58:03Joe Rogan?

  But it's gross because it's ours. It's the whole planet. It's all the human beings. It's like, do you have a few nerds who you wouldn't want to hang out with in real life? And these are the guys that are telling us we can't explore these things? And those are the people that are attacking Graham Hancock with every possible insult, calling it the most dangerous show on television like this. But it's also, it's, it's so revealing because it's so obvious that if you watch the show, you're like, wait, this is the most dangerous show on TV?

• 58:33Speaker 01

  The ancient apocalypse, yeah.

• 58:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, how is that dangerous? He's like, just talking about these bizarre structures that exist that seem to defy our modern understanding of how things are built.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. And when I, I mean, I don't agree with absolutely everything Graham Hancock says, but when I look at, you know, these ideas of, you know, human intelligence potentially stretching back 500,000 years as displayed by the Colombo Structure or permanent living. And I would argue that it could go back a lot further than that. So when you look at, when you kind of take into account that these abilities could have stretched back half a million years, when I then look at someone like Graham's work, it seems so plausible. I don't see why it's seen as so outrageous that, because 12,000 years ago, which is kind of when he proposes there could have been a, you know, a sophisticated civilization that was potentially wiped out by a cataclysm. When you look at that from the perspective of, oh yeah, we've been intelligent for half

• 59:28Speaker 01

  a million years, it doesn't seem very, it doesn't, it seems very plausible to me.

• 59:32Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, it's 450,000 years after the first structure now.

• 59:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. But no one's even, no one's talking about this.

• 59:41Joe Rogan?

  That's what's weird, is that no one's talking about that.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  It's just me.

• 59:45Joe Rogan?

  It can't be just you. It's like those academics as well that found it.

• 59:49Speaker 01

  To be fair, the guy that found it, the archaeologist that found it, said that he never could have imagined that pre Homo sapiens, again, it may not be pre Homo sapiens, it could be Homo sapiens, but he said, it's completely paradigm shifting that they had the capacity to plan and build something like this. But again, there's no, there's no fuss about it. It's just a paper was written and it was put out there and then that's it.

• 1:00:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, these things take time.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  I guess so.

• 1:00:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, more of these conversations and more people have to understand that these things are being discovered and that we are kind of confused about so many things about human history. And we're being told that, no, there's people at the universities that have all the answers and that it's literally not possible that they're telling the truth. It's not possible. And that's why I get so excited about the structures under the pyramid, because it's a gigantic fuck you to all those people.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  It would be, yeah.

• 1:00:42Joe Rogan?

  It would be the most gigantic fuck you of all time. If they found out those, that those scans are accurate and there's these pillars that are wrapped in coils that go down like hundreds of meters and then below them, there's additional structures and the whole.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  I think it's all connected as well.

• 1:00:57Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Which is like, if Christopher Don is correct about it being some sort of a power plant and that reveals like how the thing worked and functioned. That's way more advanced than us. Like, what is that?

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  In some ways, they already are. I mean, we can't explain how they did it, even based on the kind of conventional model of history.

• 1:01:15Joe Rogan?

  I know, and we lie.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:17Joe Rogan?

  I've talked to so many people. Like, when I had Zawie Hawass here, and he's explaining to me.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  National project.

• 1:01:22Joe Rogan?

  It was the national project. They're like, "Oh, that'll fix it. We should make our national project to breathe underwater and fly through the air." Like, we should make that our national project, to go to the, go to other planets and live there, in case Earth gets blown up. What are you talking about, man? What the fuck are you talking about?

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, they just don't want it. And it does kind of make me worry. Like, I don't really delve into the kind of conspiracy side of things, because, I mean, I just, I try to stay kind of based in...

• 1:01:47Joe Rogan?

  Not me. I go right in, face first.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  I do in my own time and stuff. I mean, in my own head and stuff, but in terms of like my videos.

• 1:01:54Joe Rogan?

  What one do you dive into in your own head the most?

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Um, I sometimes combine the UFO one with the ancient civilization one.

• 1:02:01Joe Rogan?

  I do too.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  And I think, what happens if, you know, a civilization from a million years ago got so advanced that we can't see them, and then that's what the UFO thing is. It's just someone from this Earth that doesn't really need the space anymore, and they're just watching us.

• 1:02:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Sometimes think about that. But obviously, I don't talk about that in my videos, because I don't need to give anyone any more ammunition to send for me.

• 1:02:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's also the genetic engineering one.

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  Oh, you mean like the...

• 1:02:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like why humans are so different than everything else in the first place. Like, that's weird. The doubling of the human brain size over a period of two million years is really weird.

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  What does that refer to? Is that from habilis to erectus? What, is that, is that...

• 1:02:41Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. Let's, uh, let's Google it.

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  Because I've heard people say that, and I've always thought, I guess that must be from Homo habilis to Homo erectus, from just over a million years ago.

• 1:02:50Joe Rogan?

  It's just an immense leap that is, uh, like Terrence McKenna used to say, "It would be bizarre if it was a liver of an otter" that doubled over a period of that amount of time. But the fact that it's the very organ that allows us to contemplate and to understand human existence in the first place, and that that organ doubled over a period of two million years, like... What happened?

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:18Joe Rogan?

  He's got the wackiest theory because he thinks it's psilocybin mushrooms.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  I think there could be something to that. I mean, because, you know, ancient cultures have always used psychedelic substances and basically all the way up until Western civil, uh, society kind of took hold. It's always been an integral part of human culture and human society. And then us in our modern world have decided to outlaw that. And I think that's a tragic mistake, to be honest with you.

• 1:03:45Joe Rogan?

  It is. And I think history will reveal that.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:49Joe Rogan?

  One day. And I think that is one of the also, also one of the good things about discussions that are happening on the internet that are kind of unchecked and untethered by academia. So you could talk about these things. Bigger brain.

• 1:04:03Speaker 03

  Smithsonian website says it's actually tripled over the time we've tracked it. Slow increase from six to two million, but a larger increase eight hundred to two hundred thousand years ago. And then the article goes.

• 1:04:17Joe Rogan?

  That's when the aliens landed.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I don't even buy that though, because Hadal begensis have the same cranial capacity as us and they go back nine hundred thousand years. So.

• 1:04:28Speaker 03

  Another thing I saw before.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  But maybe that's a Rexus they're talking about.

• 1:04:31Speaker 03

  Uh, brains don't fossilize. They deteriorate, leaving a cavity.

• 1:04:36Joe Rogan?

  Inside the brain case.

• 1:04:38Speaker 03

  Part of how they know some of this info.

• 1:04:40Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes head of insular cavity harm made a natural endocast. Scientists also make artificial endocasts to study like the ones above. Fascinating. Fascinating.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're a weird creature.

• 1:04:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, did you say it's 2017 that they discovered modern humans 300,000 years ago?

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  I think so, yeah.

• 1:04:59Joe Rogan?

  And where was that?

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  It's in Morocco.

• 1:05:01Joe Rogan?

  So that's Morocco, right. You said that. So imagine if they found something similar in China.

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  Well, that would fuck everything up because the out of Africa thing and that would really, that would really fuck everything up. But, um, I mean, it could happen.

• 1:05:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, it wouldn't really even fuck it up. It would just push it back.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  I guess so, yeah. But we, I mean, we're not even supposed to have left Africa until this time of the cognitive revolution. And that's always been the. One of the points like, oh, look, we got smart. We left Africa 60,000 years ago. But that's never made sense to me either because Homo erectus managed to migrate out of Africa and colonize loads of Asia and parts of Europe over a million years ago. And if they're supposedly, you know, inferior to us, then how can they make this massive leap? And Hadal begensis did it 600,000 years ago. And if they're supposedly inferior to us, how come they did this? And so, I mean, I don't know. I try not to delve into the out of Africa thing because it's, I don't know, it gets a little bit controversial sometimes.

• 1:05:53Joe Rogan?

  It does. Well, it gets controversial when you bring in aliens too, because aliens become racist. It becomes racist because now you're not accrediting the Africans to building the pyramids. You know, which is really frustrating.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  That's never made sense to me, that, because clearly it wasn't white people that built the pyramids.

• 1:06:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, I watched this very bizarre discussion between some guy that was trying to claim that it wasn't Africans that built the pyramid, that it was white people that built the pyramids. So there are people that have this sort of racist idea of the construction of the pyramids. But you can't attach that to everyone who's speculating about the construction. Because it's too, the things are too weird. It's too weird. And let's assume that it was Africans that built the pyramids. But if we are assuming that, like, how were they so much smarter than everyone alive today? How were they so much smarter? Let's say it's 4,500 years ago. How were they so much smarter? What was going on? Like, what happened? Did they get visited by aliens?

• 1:06:50Joe Rogan?

  Did they discover something that allowed their understanding of physics to be just so much greater than everybody else who's ever lived? Like, what did they discover? Like, what were they encountering? What were they consuming? What were they doing? What was, what were they teaching each other? Where, you know, we lost so much in the burning of the Library of Alexandria, right?

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that, that's, it's quite sad, really, isn't it, to be honest? Like, there would have been a lot in, I'm not sure 100% what happened with that. I'm not sure if it was one burning or...

• 1:07:21Joe Rogan?

  Just several burnings, yeah.

• 1:07:22Speaker 01

  But clearly a lot was lost.

• 1:07:23Joe Rogan?

  But then, then the question is, like, what did they even know? Like, what if it's older than that? Like, what if all that stuff, what if, you know, this is one of the things that Zahi Hawass was very reluctant to, he's like, what is this? I was talking about the King's List that goes back 30,000 years. Like, what if that's accurate?

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the Sumerian one does too.

• 1:07:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It gets real squirrely when you only want to accept some parts of history.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  And that ties into the green Sahara thing that I was talking about.

• 1:07:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  They have king lists that go back this far and yeah, we say that some of them are myth. And to be fair, they have kings that reigned for like a thousand years, which is a bit weird.

• 1:08:02Joe Rogan?

  It's a bit weird.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  Probably not, I mean, unless you're talking some kind of alien thing, then that probably wasn't human. But that might just be because it would have been a long time ago for them too, when they were writing these king lists.

• 1:08:11Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:08:12Speaker 01

  But it doesn't mean that their civilization only started with the first dynasty. What we've decided is the line between myth and fact, because that's a modern interpretation after the fact. They never made such distinction.

• 1:08:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and this idea that they lived a thousand years, well, have you ever read the, the North Korea depictions of Kim Jong Un's first day playing golf?

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's propaganda, exactly.

• 1:08:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, he made like nine holes in one. He was the greatest golfer of all time.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:08:36Joe Rogan?

  You know what I'm saying? So it's like you're writing about kings, he lived a thousand years, fire came from his dick. You know, like, like, what are we talking about? We don't know, we don't, we don't know what they were writing, we don't know who wrote it, we don't know how fantastical it was, how much hyperbole was involved. But we do know that we accept the king's list when it gets to around 2500 B.C. We started accepting it.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:59Joe Rogan?

  But you don't accept this possibility that it might actually go far, far, far earlier than that.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  And the whole, the pyramids thing kind of plays into the fact that stone is one of the only thing that survives. And pyramids are these massive stone constructions, like ironically, they would be one of the only things from our, not that they really count as our civilization, but from the modern world, the pyramids would be one of the only things that could survive in a hundred thousand years. So it makes you think like, how long have they been there? And I think the Egyptians definitely undertook some, some kind of construction project around the time of 2500 B.C.

• 1:09:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  Because there's records of them saying they did stuff, but that doesn't mean, because they, they have all these records, but there's no records of how they built it.

• 1:09:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, they also, the buildings that they made that were after 2500 B.C. are dog shit.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  So much worse.

• 1:09:51Joe Rogan?

  They're terrible.

• 1:09:52Speaker 01

  They just immediately forgot how to do it again, straight away.

• 1:09:54Joe Rogan?

  They were trying to copy and they just couldn't do it. They didn't have the math, they didn't have the engineering, the, the stones are smaller.

• 1:10:02Speaker 01

  And no one's claimed, they didn't claim credit for the pyramids, which is weird.

• 1:10:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:06Speaker 01

  Why would you not claim it?

• 1:10:08Joe Rogan?

  It's all weird, it's all weird, it's a. It's the weirdest, right? So it's the one thing that if you're a logical person and you think you know the timeline of history, you think you understand human civilization, you think you understand like how intelligence evolved and how technology and innovation evolved. And you see that, you're like, oh, I don't know shit. I don't know shit. Like, how's that statue so big and perfectly symmetrical?

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  They're crazy.

• 1:10:35Joe Rogan?

  How are these, just these vases that they don't understand?

• 1:10:38Speaker 01

  Oh, is that a replica?

• 1:10:39Joe Rogan?

  This is a 3D. And this is a 3D model of an actual vase from Egypt.

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. They're doing some good work on this, aren't they? People like Uncharted X.

• 1:10:49Joe Rogan?

  Christopher Dunn give this to us? I think he did.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  It's probably him, yeah.

• 1:10:56Joe Rogan?

  But, you know, Ben from Uncharted X, he's done a lot of work on these things. Like, those, just those vases are very bizarre. Very bizarre.

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  And they appear right at the start of the Egyptian dynasties.

• 1:11:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  And they forget how to do that as well.

• 1:11:09Joe Rogan?

  We have no idea how they made them. We don't know what tools they used. Anybody that says that they do, you're lying. You really don't know. You can't know. These things are perfectly symmetrical. They weren't turned on a lathe because they have handles. The, the, the way they measure them, when you look at like the deviation from round and like how it's, it's, it's like a thousandth of a human hair.

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:34Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy and it's made from incredibly hard granite, right?

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  It's the hardest stone to do that with.

• 1:11:40Joe Rogan?

  So what are we talking about? Like, who were these people?

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:44Joe Rogan?

  This is kind of crazy.

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  And then you have the statues that are perfectly symmetrical.

• 1:11:48Joe Rogan?

  Perfectly symmetrical.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  The faces are just incredible.

• 1:11:50Joe Rogan?

  And massive.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that is huge. Unbelievably huge.

• 1:11:53Joe Rogan?

  So they moved them there and then they carved them perfectly symmetrically. It looks like they're 3D printed.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:00Joe Rogan?

  It's so strange. It just screams at a lost technology.

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  At least, yeah.

• 1:12:05Joe Rogan?

  It screams that these people had some sort of information and some sort of education that is like on a different path of our, we went the, the way of the internal combustion engine and transistors and...

• 1:12:22Joe Rogan?

  Electronics and they, it seems like they went a totally different way, but maybe even further.

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:28Joe Rogan?

  But we're, we're scrambled in like our pathway to advancement is the only one that the human mind and all its infinite creativity can conceive of.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  And this is another point regarding like, you know, culture that could have flourished back in a hundred thousand years ago or whatever. We're always looking for ourselves in the past.

• 1:12:48Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:12:49Speaker 01

  But there's so many different ways that we could have gone because why did it have to be mass farming, mass population growth, and then, as you say, kind of industrial progress? It could have been so many different forms of human development and human lives and.

• 1:13:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, it could have been if they had enough animals, they mostly ate animals.

• 1:13:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, or fish or something.

• 1:13:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, mostly ate animals and fish, which is probably healthier for you anyway. You know, really what grain is, is survival food.

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we all got like shorter and less healthy when that happened.

• 1:13:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because we didn't get the right amount of protein.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:23Joe Rogan?

  And our jaws like shrunk because people were eating gruel. Like if you look at part of the world where people are eating a lot of like porridge and shit, their jaws get really small.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not good, not good for us.

• 1:13:34Joe Rogan?

  No, it's fucking terrible for, we're devolving because of our diets, which is really strange. But if you think about this time and especially that part of the world, where there was so much abundant natural resources, that animal agriculture seems super simple. You just corral a bunch of animals, you build a fence and then you eat them.

• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:54Joe Rogan?

  And you don't really have to grow rice.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  So many different ways that culture could have flourished.

• 1:14:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  And yeah, we're always looking for, and we just don't know where to look as well on the record. Like one point people always make in like my comments and stuff to try and debunk me is like, oh, we would see pollution, we would see kind of lead signals in the atmosphere or whatever if there was like a, a big civilization a hundred thousand years ago, but. That's only the case if it was someone on the scale of us now. Or if-

• 1:14:24Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:50Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:37Joe Rogan?

  Massive chunks of stone and we're apparently gonna move them.

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  Like the unfinished obelisk.

• 1:16:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 1:16:44Joe Rogan?

  The unfinished obelisk, that's bananas. So many of these things that they they cut out of the ground and absolutely moved our bananas.

• 1:16:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:53Joe Rogan?

  So it's like, what what kind of technology? Why are we assuming that it's gonna be some internal combustion engine that sprays out terrible pollution? What if they had figured something out?

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  I would say it's entirely possible.

• 1:17:06Joe Rogan?

  It's entirely possible because we're going to eventually. If you give us another thousand years, you will not be able to recognize any of this nonsense that we use for technology today. Especially when AI gets involved. Especially, like, did you see that thing where quantum, a quantum computer supposedly went one second back in time?

• 1:17:26Speaker 03

  I did, I was reading that.

• 1:17:27Joe Rogan?

  Is that bullshit?

• 1:17:28Speaker 03

  No, it's, they discovered it six years ago, though. It's not new.

• 1:17:32Joe Rogan?

  What? Six years ago, they, well, still, it's still.

• 1:17:35Speaker 03

  That story's from 2019.

• 1:17:36Joe Rogan?

  But still.

• 1:17:37Speaker 01

  It went back in time.

• 1:17:39Speaker 03

  By one second in some way in quantum.

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  What does that even mean?

• 1:17:43Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:17:44Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:17:45Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:17:46Speaker 01

  That's mad.

• 1:17:47Joe Rogan?

  But that's us. Now imagine that technology that was science fiction 20 years ago.

• 1:17:52Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:17:53Joe Rogan?

  Right? Well, go back to like the movie Alien and look at their stupid computers that they had. That's what they thought people were gonna have when they were starfaring people.

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:02Joe Rogan?

  Now, think of this quantum computer experiment where it goes back in time one second and then go forward a thousand years.

• 1:18:10Speaker 01

  Could be.

• 1:18:10Joe Rogan?

  Which is nothing.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:11Joe Rogan?

  We're talking about 4,500 years ago, we might be off by a thousand. So go to 5,500 years ago, 6,000. If you're listening to John Anthony West, he thinks it's 34,000 years.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:25Joe Rogan?

  That's what he thinks.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  And that's, and that sounds so crazy, but then you look at the kind of length of time we've been around and it's still quite recent.

• 1:18:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's still quite recent.

• 1:18:34Speaker 01

  And that lines up with the Sphinx, doesn't it? With the kind of, that's the processional cycle.

• 1:18:40Joe Rogan?

  How much evidence of a quantum computer from 34,000 years ago would be left? Right, so we did get pelted by comets, which we know happened.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:50Joe Rogan?

  That's a fact.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  There's, I, there, I saw an estimate, I think it was from NASA, but I'm not 100% sure. But it was from a kind of scientific journal that. Earth is hit by what they define as a cataclysmic impact every 100,000 years. So that's an impact that's capable of wiping out a third of today's population every 100,000 years. And 100,000 years sounds like a long time, but again, we've been around for 300,000 years. So theoretically, we've been hit by a cataclysmic impact three times already during our story. And that both has the potential to completely wipe out anyone that was doing anything sophisticated, but also to wipe the record clean.

• 1:19:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:28Speaker 01

  And that's not the only thing. You've got, you know, supervolcanoes, as we talked about, you've got pole shifts, you've got solar flares, you've got glaciers just scraping across the landscape and just completely erasing the record. You've got sea level rise. Sea level rise is a massive one because, I mean, where have we always lived? By the coasts. And if you look at the kind of fluctuation of sea level rise over the last 100,000 years, 200,000 years, 300,000 years, it's sea levels going in and out by hundreds of kilometers at a time and nothing is going to be left.

• 1:19:58Joe Rogan?

  Right. Wild stuff.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  I know, it's crazy.

• 1:20:01Joe Rogan?

  It is wild stuff, but again, if someone is a historian and they got into this, someone's an archaeologist and they got into this because they have this fascination for it, for them to become professors and then start teaching and writing books about this stuff and not still be fascinated by the new stuff.

• 1:20:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:23Joe Rogan?

  Is to me so weird. It's like you missed the whole reason why you got into this in the first place. You got into this in the first place is because you're trying to figure out what happened? How did we get to this point? And if there's evidence that shows that we don't have the full picture and you're ignoring that or dismissing that or...

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  The thing is, when you go through these kind of systems and I'm, I've sort of got experience of this, obviously I was never a professional academic or anything like that, but you know, I did history for four years. I was kind of inside and I got to the point where it was almost, you know, it was do this as a career, become a professional academic or not. It's very hard to kind of even think this way because everyone around you is thinking within these boxes that we've created for ourselves. And so it's very hard to kind of open your mind. And you kind of have to do it in private as well, because no one else is talking in those terms around you and you're surrounded by people that think in quite limited terms. And I don't say that to kind of be offensive or, you know, doubt anyone's intelligence.

• 1:21:25Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's the culture.

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  Exactly, it's the culture. And it means that no one is, it's very hard to think outside the box when you're kind of in that culture. And yeah, I think that's kind of what creates these, you know, rigid systems of thought that we have.

• 1:21:38Joe Rogan?

  It's also kind of fear-based, because it's not just discouraged, they'll attack you.

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  No, I mean, they attack each other even when they are within the box.

• 1:21:44Joe Rogan?

  Viciously. Just to think about the Clovis first issue.

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's the best example.

• 1:21:50Joe Rogan?

  It's the best example, because that guy was destroyed.

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  You're talking to Tom Delehe?

• 1:21:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, destroyed.

• 1:21:56Speaker 01

  And Jack St. Mars and a few others.

• 1:21:57Joe Rogan?

  And they were right. They were destroyed for theorizing that human beings had lived in North America and that had arrived in North America far before 13,000 years ago. And that was the established timeline of the Clovis people. And then when they found these footprints in New Mexico that are 22,000 years old.

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they hated that as well. They hated that.

• 1:22:18Joe Rogan?

  Of course they hated it. But they hated it just because they were wrong. It's all it is, man. It's human ego is so gross. And this brings me back to psychedelics. Because what do psychedelics do that's most important? Well, the dissolving of the ego, it's one of the most important aspects of it. It makes you realize the folly of your ways, you know? And all of these people that are supposed to be the academics, they're supposed to be the enlightened ones, they're not enlightened. They're just, they have information and they hold that information like it's their identity. And they're right about a lot of things, because they have been studying it. And they do deserve credit for that. What they've done is amazing. And the understanding that these academics, these archaeologists and historians...

• 1:23:02Joe Rogan?

  Can give us of our world and our history is really cool. It's really awesome, but there's a whole lot more out there. And for them to pretend and dismiss people like they should embrace people like Graham Hancock. And then they should correct him when he's saying something that's wrong.

• 1:23:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:19Joe Rogan?

  But instead of lying and then calling him a racist and saying all these terrible things about him. Well, that just shows me that you don't really have an argument. And you're trying to protect your identity. Your identity is the gatekeeper of this information that is not yours to gatekeep. It's for the whole human race to understand what the hell happened.

• 1:23:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I wish that, you know, we've seen a surge in interest in ancient history and prehistory. And, you know, the story of our species through people like Graham Hancock, who've kind of created a massive interest in this subject. But instead of embracing that, they they see it as a threat. And I think that's really sad to be honest. And, yeah, I think it it kind of hurts the discipline in general. Because if you kind of like embrace that and like brought him in to the table and spoke to him and kind of agreed, you know, agreed to have the discussion, then it would create a much kind of more healthy debate around these things. And when you when you talk about the Clovis kind of narrative,

• 1:24:22Speaker 01

  it because we think that we know what happened and thus we know what didn't happen. It means that people aren't even looking for stuff that now we know was there. So like they they don't they didn't dig deeper than the Clovis layer.

• 1:24:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:24:37Speaker 01

  Until very recently, because they knew that humans weren't around until Clovis. But obviously that was wrong, so they could have missed so much stuff and they probably did. I mean, have you seen that? There's like a, to be fair, I think Graham mentioned it on the show, the Saruie Mastodon site, which is like 130,000 years ago in America. I mean, if that's human, which it kind of looks like it is.

• 1:24:58Joe Rogan?

  That's debatable though, right? Isn't that debatable? Because the way the bones are broken, it could have been from some sort of an accident or an avalanche or something, right?

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is debatable, but it's also it could be human. Like it could easily be human because it kind of looks like human markings on on bones. I mean, so.

• 1:25:13Joe Rogan?

  It looks like scrapings, like they're scraping the marrow out of the bones.

• 1:25:17Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:25:18Joe Rogan?

  Or some some kind of primitive.

• 1:25:20Speaker 01

  But why couldn't it have been human? I mean, it didn't necessarily have to be Homo sapiens, but why couldn't another human species have got to the Americas?

• 1:25:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, it seems like they certainly could have if they were here 22,000 years ago. Like, what was that timeline? Why'd they figure it out then?

• 1:25:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:36Joe Rogan?

  And how'd they do it? Right? That's the question. How'd they do it? And we know that people were seafaring from, what was the earliest seafarers?

• 1:25:45Speaker 01

  You could argue that Homo erectus seafared 800,000 years ago, which is just mental.

• 1:25:48Joe Rogan?

  Could you really?

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  Well, they reached places that were isolated, and some people say, you know, they kind of floated there accidentally.

• 1:25:54Joe Rogan?

  Boo.

• 1:25:55Speaker 01

  Which is possible, but it seems a bit weird that you'd then, like, survive and colonize a place.

• 1:25:59Joe Rogan?

  See, that's where it gets so squirrely. If Homo erectus made a boat, that's bananas.

• 1:26:04Speaker 01

  I mean, Neanderthals were definitely making boats, and this points to how intelligent they were. They were making sophisticated boats and sailing across the Mediterranean and colonizing places like Crete well over 100,000 years ago.

• 1:26:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, we know that the North Sentinel people, they arrived by boat from Africa 60,000 years ago.

• 1:26:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:20Joe Rogan?

  And so, at least then, people were seafaring.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  Oh, definitely.

• 1:26:24Joe Rogan?

  And probably way earlier than that. So why would we assume they wouldn't get to the Americas? That seems crazy.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  I mean, bigger journey, to be fair, but then, I guess, if you go across the top...

• 1:26:33Joe Rogan?

  Which way you're doing it, yeah.

• 1:26:34Speaker 01

  Exactly. If you go across the top and kind of hop down along the coast, then not so hard.

• 1:26:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, when, also, there's the problem, it's like, if you go back 12,000 years ago, Canada's covered in ice.

• 1:26:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:45Joe Rogan?

  There's nothing there. It's literally all ice. So where are they coming from?

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:26:49Joe Rogan?

  They have to be coming from the south.

• 1:26:50Speaker 01

  I guess. I mean, there's the kind of theory regarding the Polynesian kind of island chain, you know, hopping across to Easter Island and then making one last hop across to South America.

• 1:27:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's a crazy hop, though.

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  Going the other way. It is a crazy hop.

• 1:27:05Joe Rogan?

  But people have always done crazy, just the fact that they did it in the 1400s is bananas.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  That's pretty crazy. And they did that with tech that was, you know, no-tech. They just did it with the stars.

• 1:27:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:16Speaker 01

  And wood.

• 1:27:17Joe Rogan?

  But then you get to, what, how do you say that ancient Greek symbol, that ancient Greek mechanism that they found?

• 1:27:23Speaker 01

  Oh, the Antikythera mechanism.

• 1:27:24Joe Rogan?

  That's it. I never could say that. Antikythera. I'll try. I'll try to remember it.

• 1:27:29Speaker 01

  You got it, you got it.

• 1:27:30Joe Rogan?

  But I always forget it. But that thing is bananas. Like, that, when they first found it, it just looked like a hunk of shit, like, what is this? And then, when they got a better understanding, I think it was like, a long time after they discovered it, that they go, oh, wait a minute, these are gears. Like, what?

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  It's like a computer, basically.

• 1:27:48Joe Rogan?

  Two thousand year old computer.

• 1:27:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, at least, and also that's not the first one, like no one just, someone didn't just develop that and was like, here you go.

• 1:27:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  Just fucking made a computer like, it was clearly like a, you know, a long history of very, very technical stuff in.

• 1:28:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:28:01Speaker 01

  In ancient Greece and it could well have been the ancient Greeks, but also it could have been like, well, where did you kind of, where's the, what's the history of this technology and.

• 1:28:07Joe Rogan?

  Right, more technical than like this modern automatic watch.

• 1:28:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:28:11Joe Rogan?

  You know, modern automatic watch, if you look at the inside of them, it's crazy. There's springs and gears and it's all within. Like this, uh, Seiko is like within, I think it's a couple of seconds a day.

• 1:28:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:23Joe Rogan?

  Like, that's crazy. And it's all these little, and it moves, it has no power source other than the movement of your hand.

• 1:28:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:30Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts. And it has a seventy two hour power reserve. So for seventy two hours, if you let it sit there. Just from the power of your hand from wearing it for a few, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:28:39Speaker 01

  That's a cool watch.

• 1:28:40Joe Rogan?

  Nuts. Isn't that nuts? But that's normal. That's a normal thing for a modern watch with these little tiny gears. This thing's way crazier than that. And it's two thousand years old.

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  At least.

• 1:28:53Joe Rogan?

  What do they think it was for?

• 1:28:55Speaker 01

  I think they thought it kind of like tracked the lunar cycles and the kind of elliptical movements of.

• 1:29:00Joe Rogan?

  I don't, I don't. Have you seen the three D A I representation of what it looked like when it was fully done? See if you can find that, cause it's, that, that's the most eye opening of it. Cause you're bringing this back to the time of Christ. And someone made a computer during the time of Christ. Like, okay, would it, what are we missing? Like Graham's quote is the best. I love this quote. We are a species with amnesia.

• 1:29:26Speaker 01

  Oh, one hundred percent.

• 1:29:27Joe Rogan?

  One hundred percent. Yeah. And this other quote that I really love, things just keep getting older.

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  And things do keep getting older.

• 1:29:32Joe Rogan?

  They keep getting older. Yeah. And this is something that people resist for some strange reason. And I don't understand it. I think it's just because it's attached to these folks like Graham.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the one.

• 1:29:43Joe Rogan?

  Look at it. That's nuts. That's what it used to look like.

• 1:29:48Speaker 03

  This is a modern reproduction of it.

• 1:29:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right. But that, that is what it used to look like, right?

• 1:29:54Speaker 03

  Based off of that.

• 1:29:56Joe Rogan?

  That, yeah.

• 1:29:56Speaker 03

  Pieces.

• 1:29:58Joe Rogan?

  So, show me the modern reproduction of what it looked like. Just imagine, okay, someone 2,000 fucking years ago figured that out and they have these little representations of the stars and the planets, of the sun and then all the planets surround it. Like, first of all, how do they know all that? How are they seeing these planets? Like, did they have a telescope? Like, what are they, how do they know how many planets are in our solar system? What, what did you base this on?

• 1:30:29Speaker 01

  And no equivalent technology ever like reemerged until like, you know, like the 16th century with like Swiss clockmakers or something.

• 1:30:35Joe Rogan?

  Right. So it just makes you wonder, like, how old is that and what's that from? And what were the, you know, was there other stuff like this that we never find?

• 1:30:45Speaker 03

  When I Googled, uh, first sea fairs?

• 1:30:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, that, I think that's the, uh...

• 1:30:51Speaker 03

  Whoa! There's no, I don't see the evidence that they have for 700,000 years ago.

• 1:30:55Speaker 01

  I think that's the Homo erectus thing.

• 1:30:57Speaker 03

  And they're crossing the, I Googled it and crossing the AGNC, it says they might have been doing, which there was some like islands that were protecting it from crazy weather, potentially made it easier.

• 1:31:08Joe Rogan?

  But that is...

• 1:31:09Speaker 03

  But I don't know what evidence.

• 1:31:09Joe Rogan?

  That is a crazy thing to read. Some evidence suggests that man may have crossed the sea as early as 700,000 years ago.

• 1:31:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:17Joe Rogan?

  Aren't you happy you were born today?

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:20Joe Rogan?

  Imagine trying to gut it out, tough it out, living back then.

• 1:31:23Speaker 01

  Take the boys and go and cross across some fucking sea in a wooden raft.

• 1:31:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, you want to have eaten your friend, because there's no food left. Yeah, it's, uh, it's kind of amazing that we got as far as we did, but it's really amazing when they find things like that. Is the Antikythera mechanism, I said it right?

• 1:31:39Speaker 01

  You did.

• 1:31:40Joe Rogan?

  Nailed it. I'll try to remember. Uh, but just the fact that we found one of those and it makes you wonder, like, what, what'd they have in Egypt? You know, what did they have 2,000 years before that? What'd they, you know, what did we miss?

• 1:31:53Speaker 03

  I was digging into the stone stuff while you were talking about frequencies. There's a, I saw a video recently that doesn't explain all the Egypt stuff, but there were frequencies coming out of these rocks.

• 1:32:05Speaker 03

  That I don't think everybody is currently like studying. People have studied it.

• 1:32:17Speaker 03

  That's very basic, but like there's the King's Chamber and the reverberations that happen. I was reading from Archimedes, I think, this quote here. "When the priests sing the hymns of the gods, they sing the seven vows in due succession. The sound of these vows has such euphony," I think that's that word, "that men listen to it instead of the flute and the lyre," the lyre. So from 200 or 200 B.C.

• 1:32:44Speaker 01

  With this, like so many ancient sites that are all built with kind of acoustic

• 1:32:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  like resonance in mind.

• 1:32:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, so that's what I was getting into this. I was trying to find the proof of it. Someone made a video I saw recently where the sematic stuff shows up all over the place in some ancient sites, definitely, obviously, in churches and cathedrals. But this is what happens when you like

• 1:33:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:04Speaker 03

  put sand on a plate and hum on it or put, you know, a certain frequency.

• 1:33:08Joe Rogan?

  Vibrations, yeah.

• 1:33:10Speaker 03

  And how you stumble across this. And it just so happens to be the same thing we're like, we're discovering now.

• 1:33:19Speaker 03

  Crazy.

• 1:33:19Joe Rogan?

  What is that image of? What is that, that golden?

• 1:33:22Speaker 03

  This?

• 1:33:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, what's that?

• 1:33:24Speaker 03

  It's a cathedral. Ah, I looked at it a second ago.

• 1:33:27Joe Rogan?

  Is that in Canada?

• 1:33:28Speaker 03

  No, the article is from

• 1:33:29Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:33:30Speaker 03

  Spain.

• 1:33:31Joe Rogan?

  It's in Spain. Whoa.

• 1:33:37Joe Rogan?

  That is wild.

• 1:33:38Speaker 03

  UK. I was looking into the oldest doors people found. The oldest doors are only like 5,000 B.C. It was found in Switzerland somewhere.

• 1:33:48Joe Rogan?

  Huh.

• 1:33:49Speaker 03

  There's an act, the oldest act of doors in the UK. From 900 A.D., I think.

• 1:33:54Joe Rogan?

  What did those images of sacred geometry from in that right there? Leonardo da Vinci's original drawing of the Flower of Life. How, what da Vinci? What were you, what drugs are you taking, son? How is he seeing that?

• 1:34:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, that's ancient imagery, right? That's sacred geometry. Those depictions have been around forever.

• 1:34:18Joe Rogan?

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• 1:35:00Joe Rogan?

  Visit lifelock.com and save up to 30% your first year with the promo code JRE. That's promo code JRE. Or go to lifelock.com/JRE for 30% off. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something different and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, they ranked the number-one choice for new checking accounts in America. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee-free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands of fee-free ATMs. But here's the real kicker.

• 1:35:45Joe Rogan?

  If you get their Chime Card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category you actually pick yourself. Your savings rate, crazy high. It's nine times the national average. They're calling it the most rewarding way to bank. Go to chime.com/Rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime Card, provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details.

• 1:36:16Speaker 01

  He was a crazy dude, eventually, well, in a good way. A smart guy.

• 1:36:19Joe Rogan?

  Bizarrely smart.

• 1:36:21Speaker 01

  Very smart.

• 1:36:21Joe Rogan?

  It's weird when you have these outliers, these outliers that come out of nowhere. And like, he had like, a working model of a flying machine.

• 1:36:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:33Speaker 01

  And he had like three jobs.

• 1:36:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:36Speaker 01

  Crazy guy.

• 1:36:37Joe Rogan?

  And he's an amazing artist.

• 1:36:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:38Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of, you know, these outliers that just, how many of them we've never heard of? How many of them were from thirty thousand years ago? How many, just, we have such a limited understanding of our history. And I always think, like, if something happened to us right now, what would really be left? The real problem is, everything is either on paper, and there's not a lot of it on paper anymore. It's on hard drives. And those things would get cooked. If there was just a massive solar flare, something huge that took out our power grid and destroyed all of our cellphone towers and all our satellites, no more electricity.

• 1:37:20Speaker 01

  And even if it didn't get cooked, what would you do with it in a hundred, or in ten thousand years?

• 1:37:25Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:37:25Speaker 01

  If you found that, you wouldn't know what that was.

• 1:37:26Joe Rogan?

  You wouldn't know what that was. You would have to devise a new version of Windows to read it. You know, it would take so long. And it would probably have been corroded and wasted away.

• 1:37:38Speaker 01

  It wouldn't be recognizable.

• 1:37:38Joe Rogan?

  Long before that. Especially if something happened, it was underwater. Especially if, you know, the entire world is on fire because we got hit with a comet.

• 1:37:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:49Joe Rogan?

  Like, there wouldn't be much left. And this is like a really shitty way to store information.

• 1:37:55Speaker 01

  It's a bit, it does feel like a bit of a risk, doesn't it?

• 1:37:57Joe Rogan?

  It's a giant risk.

• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  Everything we've ever

• 1:37:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:00Speaker 01

  learnt and, you know, discovered and thought about is all just-

• 1:38:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know what happens when your phone dies and you don't have a backup phone? You're like, oh no, I don't know anyone's number.

• 1:38:09Speaker 01

  And we do that with our entire civilization's knowledge.

• 1:38:12Joe Rogan?

  Right. And so then you would have just stories and myths of what things used to be like. There was an all-female flight crew at Delta. You're like, what? What are you talking about? What does that even mean? You know, oh, they had satellites. What are you talking about? Like, what is, the thing is, like, I wonder how many of the satellites would still be in orbit? Or whether their orbit would deteriorate and they would come crashing down to earth.

• 1:38:34Speaker 01

  I think they would decay like relatively quickly, I think. I mean, I'm not sure, but lots of them would, I think. And when we're talking big time scales.

• 1:38:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, let's think, let's Google that. How many satellites that are in orbit today? See if, put this into AI. How many satellites that are in orbit around the earth today will be there in a hundred thousand years?

• 1:39:01Joe Rogan?

  Does Perplexity have an answer for that?

• 1:39:07Speaker 01

  I don't, I think it's unlikely that anyone else was doing like space travel and stuff.

• 1:39:11Joe Rogan?

  Unlikely.

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe not impossible, but I don't think there's anything on the moon, for example. I think we probably see that, but.

• 1:39:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the weird one, right? There's bases on the dark side of the moon and they're watching us. Ah. Are you sure?

• 1:39:24Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't think so.

• 1:39:26Joe Rogan?

  You know, well, then there's the weirdest of the moon itself, that it's the absolute perfect size and the perfect distance to completely block out the sun.

• 1:39:35Speaker 01

  That is weird, isn't it?

• 1:39:36Joe Rogan?

  Real, real weird. It's real weird because it's not kind of right. It's perfect.

• 1:39:44Speaker 01

  Precise, yeah.

• 1:39:44Joe Rogan?

  It's very precise. So you would need the precise size and the precise distance.

• 1:39:50Speaker 01

  That's weird.

• 1:39:51Joe Rogan?

  And there's also the fact that it stabilizes our atmosphere. It stabilizes our environment.

• 1:39:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess the argument for that is we wouldn't be here if it wasn't, if it wasn't the exact right.

• 1:40:01Speaker 03

  This is the best answer. You might have to read the whole thing, but there's thousands of satellites burning up each year in the atmosphere is what I got to the end of.

• 1:40:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so thousands of them crashed down?

• 1:40:11Speaker 03

  I mean, they.

• 1:40:13Joe Rogan?

  So how long do they last?

• 1:40:14Speaker 03

  That's the first, that's why I was trying to track that down. The first one only lasted three months.

• 1:40:19Joe Rogan?

  So Sputnik one, the Soviet Union in 1957, three months later it fell out of orbit.

• 1:40:24Speaker 03

  It seems like they worked up to about a 25 year rule where they only expected to last that long.

• 1:40:29Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:40:30Speaker 03

  It's gonna crash down.

• 1:40:31Joe Rogan?

  So in 25 years, there's nothing left?

• 1:40:35Speaker 03

  But that's, I was trying to Google how long would till the last one, if they stop putting them up, how long until the last one crashes down?

• 1:40:41Joe Rogan?

  It seems like 25 years.

• 1:40:43Speaker 03

  That's why, then I couldn't get a good answer that way.

• 1:40:46Joe Rogan?

  Did you put it into AI?

• 1:40:48Speaker 03

  I didn't because I don't want to.

• 1:40:53Speaker 03

  I don't like asking questions you don't know the answer to the AI. I like asking questions I know the answer to.

• 1:40:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, I just like to see how it thinks. I like to see if it's gonna just bullshit you and lie to you, or if it's gonna...

• 1:41:05Speaker 03

  I wanna know when it's bullshitting me.

• 1:41:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:08Speaker 03

  I don't like knowing when it doesn't.

• 1:41:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:11Speaker 03

  You just have to trust it.

• 1:41:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also basing all its information on websites.

• 1:41:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I don't know what year it was trained on. I was watching people talk about sports cards. They're like, "It's not updated in the last three years, so you don't even... You can't use this data. It's not good data."

• 1:41:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really? Which one was that?

• 1:41:26Speaker 03

  I don't know which one they were talking about. That's... There's so many AI opportunities out there.

• 1:41:33Joe Rogan?

  It's funny watching people on Twitter use Grok and try to get Grok to say things it doesn't wanna say.

• 1:41:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:40Joe Rogan?

  And you realize, "Oh, there's an information blockade of what Grok is allowed to talk about."

• 1:41:46Speaker 01

  The thing is, you can just make... You can kind of trick AI to say whatever you want it to say.

• 1:41:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've seen people do that, like trick it into saying, like, "How would you make a bomb?"

• 1:41:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's almost the bad thing about it, is you can... It kind of becomes your own little echo chamber after a while if you want it to, if you can kind of convince it to.

• 1:42:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, we've done a really terrible job of taking care of most people, and when then you give these people access to the kind of power that AI provides them, they're gonna ask naughty questions.

• 1:42:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:14Joe Rogan?

  Because they, you know...

• 1:42:16Speaker 01

  It's great fun, though.

• 1:42:16Joe Rogan?

  They're not living in harmony.

• 1:42:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:42:18Joe Rogan?

  Because we... We're a selfish being. We're a selfish creature.

• 1:42:24Speaker 01

  It's a crazy thing, though, the kind of advent of large language models and...

• 1:42:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:28Speaker 01

  Artificial intelligence, and it's mad.

• 1:42:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also, we're in the middle of it. It's happening right now, which is real weird. So like, in our lifetimes, we're potentially witnessing the biggest change to civilization since the pyramids.

• 1:42:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, even in my lifetime, like, I was born in 97. Didn't really have, I had to dial up the internet, I remember when I was a kid. And then, you know, smartphones came along and then obviously things like AI and it's just, it is, it is pretty ridiculous.

• 1:43:00Joe Rogan?

  I was twenty seven years old before I ever got online. That was when I first got a computer and I got on AOL, you've got mail. I was like, I've got mail? This is crazy. And, you know, and you could go to chat rooms and read about stuff and you could download information, so I'd print stuff about UFOs and like, this is the future. I'm living in the future. And we're very fortunate, I think, that we got to see what life was like with a primitive use of the internet to what it's become now to a quantum computer can go back a second in time to, you know, what is coming next? We don't know. What's really weird is imagine if this has been done before.

• 1:43:44Joe Rogan?

  We're assuming that it hasn't, but imagine if the Egyptians had figured out something similar.

• 1:43:52Joe Rogan?

  It kind of makes sense. I mean, it sounds preposterous that they did, but why? Why if we can do it? Why if we can do it? If, maybe it's just a thing, if you leave humans undisturbed for a long enough amount of time with food. They start figuring stuff out. If you can keep them from killing each other. And maybe that's the beautiful thing about the way Egyptian technology had advanced. They didn't split the atom. Maybe they figured out something else that they couldn't turn into a weapon.

• 1:44:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, they were definitely doing some pretty mad stuff. And then if you look at those kind of granite boxes they made, that are completely smooth surface. I mean, they clearly had some form of technology that we don't attribute to them. I think that's undisputed. I mean, it is disputed, but I don't think, I don't see how you can logically kind of look at what they were doing and not think they had some kind of technology that, you know, we don't traditionally attribute them to. But whether that means they were like some crazy advanced civilization or it was built by some other advanced civilization, you know, that's, you know, a bit more hypothetical, but they were clearly doing stuff that we can't appreciate today. So that logically suggests they had, you know, something that we don't understand, right?

• 1:45:02Joe Rogan?

  Right. And when you find

• 1:45:07Joe Rogan?

  from two thousand years ago, it makes you just really think, like, what did they have?

• 1:45:11Speaker 01

  Well, ancient Greece was very inspired by ancient Egypt. So, I mean, it could have well come from there.

• 1:45:16Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, yeah.

• 1:45:18Joe Rogan?

  And we, you know, we're just guessing, we're just lost in guessing.

• 1:45:23Speaker 01

  That's the thing, it's all about interpretation, isn't it? All of history is about interpretation, it's not a hard science like, you know, physics, I mean physics. Physics is kind of crazy too, it hurts my head man, that's too much for me, all that quantum physics stuff, but. Have you ever heard of the Solurian hypothesis?

• 1:45:38Joe Rogan?

  No. Or maybe I have, what is it?

• 1:45:41Speaker 01

  It's, it's kind of linked to this, uh, it's linked to this, you know, ancient civilization stuff. It's the idea that there could have been an advanced civilization on our planet, you know, a hundred million years ago, a non-human one. That, you know, was, uh, advanced and industrial and we just wouldn't see any trace because of how long ago it was and they could have been here and, you know, we just wouldn't know because it's been so long. It's kind of like where I come from with my kind of human idea, obviously it's a further uh, time span, but it's been, it was proposed by two physicists is why I, uh, why I just thought of it just then. It's a guy called Adam Frank and, um.

• 1:46:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I've had him, Adam on before.

• 1:46:21Speaker 01

  You've had him on?

• 1:46:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:21Speaker 01

  Adam Frank, there you go, I mean, didn't, didn't you might have talked about it?

• 1:46:24Joe Rogan?

  We had him on Jamie, right? Didn't we?

• 1:46:29Joe Rogan?

  It's a problem, that happens all the time, we're like, yeah, we've had him on, I know we have.

• 1:46:33Speaker 03

  Episode at eleven thirty.

• 1:46:34Joe Rogan?

  I knew, I knew we have.

• 1:46:35Speaker 01

  There you go, yeah.

• 1:46:36Joe Rogan?

  I just wanted to check because I have been wrong before, where I, we talked about a guy, I'm like, who's that guy? And then like, I talked to him for three hours.

• 1:46:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's happened before, um, but, so, this idea is that something else other than human beings?

• 1:46:52Speaker 01

  Well, it's just the idea that if it had, we wouldn't know. And because the earth's been around for so long and complex multicellular life appeared, you know, relatively early in our like four billion year history of the earth or whatever, I'm not sure on the dates, but we've been around, the earth as for other, has been around for so, so, so long. And we know that intelligence can emerge because it emerged with us and. Happened relatively quickly when you look at the kind of massive timescale that the Earth's been around and how long multicellular life has been around. So their idea is kind of like, well, what if, you know, a civilization in the kind of era of the dinosaurs had, you know, become very advanced and industrial society. And they say we would see absolutely no evidence like.

• 1:47:35Speaker 01

  When I'm talking about human civilization, we would see some potential evidence like, you know, rock, carved stone or whatever, but they would say you wouldn't even see the nuclear waste deposits because it's that long ago that nothing would survive. And then I think about that and I think, well, isn't it almost more likely that something did happen considering we know that intelligence can emerge relatively quickly? Multicellular life has been on the planet for so, so, so, so, so, so long.

• 1:47:58Joe Rogan?

  Limited understanding of the fossil record.

• 1:48:00Speaker 01

  Exactly. Why couldn't, why couldn't something have happened before? And then, then you start getting a bit, you know, stoner about it and you start thinking, well, maybe they're still here because they.

• 1:48:08Joe Rogan?

  That's what I like to do. I like to go into dimensional. Because I think like, well, if you do have these quantum computers that can go back one second in time and you, you move forward a thousand years from now and they're run by AI, like what can they do? Like what, do they cease to, do these beings cease to exist in this dimension? Do they develop the ability to be transdimensional? Do they, do they no longer exist in our space and time? Is that like the emergence of this new life form and then they observe us? Is that what's going on?

• 1:48:42Speaker 01

  Well, I feel like if you kind of survive, you know, a lot longer than we have and you kind of get to a different like kind of level of intelligence, then why would you need the kind of physical body? Why would you need the physical realm? And why couldn't you kind of diverge different dimensions if such a thing is possible like?

• 1:48:59Joe Rogan?

  We certainly can imagine it taking place somewhere else. On another planet with a similar atmosphere that supports life and given, maybe they live in a solar system that doesn't have an asteroid belt.

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:11Joe Rogan?

  Right? Because there's, I'm sure they must exist or they're not getting pelted all the time. We're just in a shitty neighborhood. We're basically in a neighborhood that gets shot up all the time.

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  A shooting gallery, yeah.

• 1:49:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a shooting gallery. And imagine them achieving where we are at, but then plus a million years. And you can go, oh yeah, well, I guess all bets are off in terms of what's possible. We're, we, you know, a hundred years ago, people were freaking out if they saw a car. Now we're sending video from a tiny little screen on your phone.

• 1:49:45Speaker 01

  Across the world.

• 1:49:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, instantaneously. It's all nuts.

• 1:49:49Speaker 01

  And we don't even blink at that. We don't. You actually get pissed off if it doesn't work. And you're like, what the fuck, I don't talk to this guy in Australia. And instantly like, why's my phone not working?

• 1:49:56Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, people are addicted to staring at it. It's like, it's pulling you into its gravity. It's, it's ve- it's all very, very weird stuff.

• 1:50:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, we adjust very quickly to.

• 1:50:08Joe Rogan?

  Real quick.

• 1:50:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, how technology develops. And it's just getting faster and faster and faster. It makes you think, where will we be in a hundred years, in five hundred years, if nothing happens?

• 1:50:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Where will we be? Um, I think we'll be somewhere really weird. But I'm hoping that as we do advance and wherever we're going to be, it'll help us understand where we came from. Like, you know, like if, if AI and superintelligence starts examining the history of the human race, then things can get very interesting. And maybe it could give us places to look. Like, we need physical, you know, human beings or drones on the ground excavating certain areas. This is like prime place to look.

• 1:50:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I come, I some, I kind of flip between like quite a pessimistic outlook and quite an optimistic outlook on these things. Like, sometimes I think like, it's just gone and we're never gonna know and we can speculate for as much as we like, but it's gone. And then sometimes I think, no, like, you never know, there's so many places that are just completely unexcavated, completely unexplored, that we haven't looked at, like, you know, believe the Sahara on the, the, uh, the ocean floor by these, um, could I have some coffee, please?

• 1:51:19Joe Rogan?

  Yes, sir.

• 1:51:19Speaker 01

  That'll be all right. Thank you.

• 1:51:20Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 1:51:21Speaker 01

  And then there are all these places that, you know, we haven't explored. And as you say, technology like AI. Thank you. Cheers. Thank you. You know, I think, sometimes I think, yeah, maybe we are gonna make like these massive discoveries that are gonna completely shift our understanding of history. And as you say, the kind of Giza, the findings beneath Giza, that could be a moment. And I'm always looking for that, but then sometimes I flip again and think, you know, maybe we'll never find anything and I just don't know. Maybe I'm just speculating for no reason and I should just stop.

• 1:51:51Joe Rogan?

  Have you seen Ben on Uncharted X? His, he has a very recent video of these, I don't even know how you describe it. There's these underground structures in Egypt that he says are bigger than the Giza Plateau, that are underground.

• 1:52:11Speaker 01

  I haven't seen that. I love his channel, but I haven't seen that.

• 1:52:12Joe Rogan?

  There's a historical record of these things where people had talked about them like, you know, way back, even explorers had visited them and found them to be more spectacular than what is actually on the ground, that the underground thing was even crazier.

• 1:52:30Speaker 01

  And that begs the question, why, why underground? Why, why do we find all this underground construction all over the world?

• 1:52:37Joe Rogan?

  Hey!

• 1:52:38Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:52:39Joe Rogan?

  Jamie!

• 1:52:40Speaker 01

  Was that, and that's his theme music, I even recognize that. Shout out to Uncharted X.

• 1:52:45Joe Rogan?

  Yes, he's coming on soon to talk about this very thing. He's awesome. He's really awesome and he spends so much time down there. So, um...

• 1:52:57Speaker 01

  He did something, are you talking about, he did a video on the kind of Habara?

• 1:53:00Joe Rogan?

  Unknown ancient site. So the unknown ancient site said to be greater than the pyramids, confirmed with satellite scans.

• 1:53:05Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, I haven't seen this.

• 1:53:07Joe Rogan?

  Give us the coming up, just play it.

• 1:53:10Speaker 04

  Just so many different techniques. The geoscan and Merlin Borough's satellite technologies, I mean, they're vastly different techniques. They seem to be aligned, they're telling you the same things. So they found something, like there's something down there. What is down there seems to be also quite a mystery. The central object is hard to classify. It appears metallic, not stone or wood.

• 1:53:32Speaker 04

  A freestanding forty meter long metallic tic tac shaped object. Approximately, what, fifty, sixty meters below the ground in a huge big open corridor and atrium? Come on, like thi- this is a remarkable claim.

• 1:53:47Joe Rogan?

  It's a crazy video. And he goes deep into the history of people talking about these sites and even ancient explorers who wrote about visiting Egypt would talk about how it was even more spectacular underground.

• 1:54:05Joe Rogan?

  Here it is. This is, uh, how do you say his name?

• 1:54:09Speaker 04

  Petri, yeah. He's, um, he, he's written a lot because he was like one of the first people to-

• 1:54:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's Flanders Petri.

• 1:54:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:54:16Joe Rogan?

  So is the, are those the names of the sites he's talking about? Hawara, Diamehu-

• 1:54:20Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, oh, sorry, yeah.

• 1:54:21Joe Rogan?

  And Arson, Arson?

• 1:54:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, Hawara is definitely a site.

• 1:54:25Joe Rogan?

  Arseno, Arseno? Uh, so it says, "On that space could be erected the great hall of Karnak and all successive temples adjoining it and the great court and the pylons of it. Also the temple of Mut and that of, how do you say that? Khansu?

• 1:54:41Speaker 04

  I guess.

• 1:54:41Joe Rogan?

  Khansu and the, and Amenhotep III at Karnak. Also the two great temples of Luxor and still there would be room for the whole of Ramesum."

• 1:54:56Joe Rogan?

  What does that mean? In short, all of the temples of the east of Thebes? And I'm sorry if I'm butchering these names, folk. And one of the largest of the west bank might be placed together in the one area in the ruins of Hawara. Here we certainly have a site worthy of the renown which the labyrinth acquired. So this is an ancient explorer who's talking about, he, he actually got into this area. The problem now is it's all submerged, so it's been flooded. And it's very difficult to, um, to do any kind of archaeological work on it now.

• 1:55:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, because he was one of the first people in, western people.

• 1:55:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're like crawling into these like holes and swimming in now. It's, it's real weird. It's like you could die in there. So someone's got to figure out how to get the fucking water out of there and what is that? So if this guy's accurate with what he's talking about, again-

• 1:55:58Joe Rogan?

  Explain that. Explain how you've got something that's even greater than what you're seeing above the surface, underneath, fifty meters down in the stone.

• 1:56:08Speaker 01

  And why underground?

• 1:56:09Joe Rogan?

  Why?

• 1:56:10Speaker 01

  So much harder.

• 1:56:11Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. What like, what were they doing? Were they hiding? Is this like what happened when cataclysmus cataclysms took place? They said, "Bolson, we need to develop a way to survive these things. Let's get underground and..."

• 1:56:23Speaker 01

  There's so many all over the world as well. There's

• 1:56:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:26Speaker 01

  People are always, well, ancient people are always building underground construction and we can't explain how they did it, who did it, or why they did it today. And again, no one, well, no one in the mainstream really kind of looks into that.

• 1:56:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that site in Turkey, wasn't it supposed to house like two thousand people?

• 1:56:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:42Joe Rogan?

  Is that the number, like two thousand people?

• 1:56:44Speaker 01

  At least, I think, I can't remember off the top of my head, but it's huge.

• 1:56:47Joe Rogan?

  Huge. I think it might be twenty thousand people.

• 1:56:49Speaker 01

  It's massive.

• 1:56:50Joe Rogan?

  That sounds better.

• 1:56:51Speaker 01

  And, yeah.

• 1:56:52Joe Rogan?

  Sounds more exciting. But it is massive and they don't know how they did it and they carved it out of stone.

• 1:56:57Speaker 01

  They don't know who built it.

• 1:56:58Joe Rogan?

  There's no evidence of the stone being left anywhere. It's not like there's a big pile of it outside of it. It's real weird.

• 1:57:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, twenty thousand, there you go.

• 1:57:05Joe Rogan?

  Twenty thousand people together with their livestock and food stores. So twenty thousand people, livestock and food stores. Extending to a depth of approximately eighty-five meters. Underground.

• 1:57:17Speaker 01

  And no one knows who built that?

• 1:57:19Joe Rogan?

  All underground, nuts.

• 1:57:22Speaker 01

  And their kind of argument is that they built it to

• 1:57:24Joe Rogan?

  Look at what it looks like.

• 1:57:26Speaker 01

  Protect themselves from an invading army, but that's never made sense to me because if you were attacking those people, you'd just block the entrances.

• 1:57:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then start fires.

• 1:57:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that seems silly. It seems like more likely what they were doing was escaping whatever the fuck was on the surface.

• 1:57:42Speaker 01

  And so who built that and why? And how old is it? Because again, it's, you know, it's stone that could survive for so long.

• 1:57:47Joe Rogan?

  Right, and also, did you build it after a cataclysm? Like, how do you do it? Do you know it's coming and that's how you build it? No, you didn't know it's coming unless it's happened, unless it happens regularly and they realize the only way to survive it is to get underground.

• 1:58:02Speaker 01

  Well, I guess you could, you know, it could be the remnants of an earlier culture that was wiped out and

• 1:58:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:58:07Speaker 01

  They had like a memory of maybe passed down three myths.

• 1:58:10Joe Rogan?

  Look how nuts that is.

• 1:58:11Speaker 03

  I was thinking too, like, knowing how like leaf cutter ants do it, this couldn't have been the first one they made.

• 1:58:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, again, exactly, exactly.

• 1:58:17Speaker 03

  And figure out how to make all those chambers to breathe and stuff.

• 1:58:20Joe Rogan?

  That's so bananas, dude, that that's eighty-five meters into the ground.

• 1:58:24Speaker 01

  So crazy.

• 1:58:25Joe Rogan?

  So crazy.

• 1:58:27Speaker 01

  Another great one is Longyukaves in China, which is just, there's just zero explanation of what that is or who built it. There's no record of its construction. It's, have you seen, have you seen, you seen Longyukaves? Yeah.

• 1:58:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, pull that up, because that's nuts, too.

• 1:58:39Speaker 01

  Absolutely crazy.

• 1:58:40Joe Rogan?

  How old is that supposed to be?

• 1:58:41Speaker 01

  No, no one knows. They have no idea who built it. It's just like, what is this, you know? And they, they don't know who built it. There's no record of who built it. They don't know what it was for. There's no deposits of stone. There's no tools found nearby.

• 1:58:53Joe Rogan?

  Do they have a theory of the timeline?

• 1:58:55Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't think so. I mean, to be fair, it's in China, so it's kind of like, it's not, it's a...

• 1:59:00Speaker 03

  It's founded in 1992.

• 1:59:02Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, a farmer. Four farmers.

• 1:59:05Speaker 01

  So there's 24 of them, like, looking like that.

• 1:59:07Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:59:08Speaker 01

  24.

• 1:59:09Speaker 03

  At least 2,000 years old.

• 1:59:11Joe Rogan?

  Um, go to a video of it, so we could see, because the, the caves, when, when you, when people walk around it with a camera, it's bananas.

• 1:59:20Speaker 01

  And there's 24 distinct ones that look like that. And it's just like, who's building that? Why?

• 1:59:25Joe Rogan?

  Can you still visit China without going to jail? What happens?

• 1:59:28Speaker 01

  I don't know. Oh, this is Mike Collins. He's great, Wonder and Wolf.

• 1:59:31Joe Rogan?

  Yes. He's the one who does all that stuff about that wall in Montana, too.

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, the sage wall, yeah.

• 1:59:38Joe Rogan?

  Very weird. That man, Montana thing is very weird. I go back and forth on that one, being man-made or...

• 1:59:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the case for so many, like, of these things. It's like, it could be natural, but then...

• 1:59:47Joe Rogan?

  Not this one, though.

• 1:59:48Speaker 01

  This is definitely not fucking natural.

• 1:59:49Joe Rogan?

  Can you imagine in 1992, some farmers are just fucking around and they find this?

• 1:59:55Speaker 01

  Find 24 of them as well.

• 1:59:56Joe Rogan?

  And they're like, yo, what did we find?

• 2:00:00Speaker 01

  I think the carvings are, are modern.

• 2:00:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they are?

• 2:00:02Speaker 01

  I think so. I think they are.

• 2:00:04Joe Rogan?

  From 1992?

• 2:00:05Speaker 01

  The parallel lines, uh, they don't know what they are. They have no idea why the parallel lines are there, but I think the kind of carvings depicting like mystical Chinese stuff is, is a kind of modern addition.

• 2:00:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, like, brand new?

• 2:00:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, just like since they discovered it.

• 2:00:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really? Like, even those ones on the wall right there? That's so gross.

• 2:00:23Speaker 01

  I think so. I may be wrong.

• 2:00:23Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:00:24Speaker 01

  Might be worth checking. I'm not, I'm not...

• 2:00:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I hope they didn't do that. Oh, that would be gross. Can you imagine?

• 2:00:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. But that's always, that, that site has just always baffled me, because again, if you look at the Wikipedia page for that site, it's, it's just like three lines. But it's like, what the fuck is this?

• 2:00:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so the carvings.

• 2:00:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:43Joe Rogan?

  Are those really old?

• 2:00:44Speaker 01

  I'm not a hundred percent sure.

• 2:00:46Joe Rogan?

  What, what um made you think that they're modern?

• 2:00:50Speaker 01

  Because I did a little video on, I mentioned this in a video during my research of that, I saw that.

• 2:00:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so in the research you found out that they were modern?

• 2:00:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:58Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so the lines, it seems to be, the parallel lines seems to be like how they dug all the stuff out, like one layer at a time. Would you think that?

• 2:01:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like how and what, using what?

• 2:01:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:01:09Speaker 01

  Twenty-four of them, and also they're all so precisely identical. It's like, what tool are you using to make sure this was so identical?

• 2:01:16Joe Rogan?

  Right, like what tool are you carving stone with to make a giant cave? Uh, one particular cave stands out for its detailed carvings of dragons, animals, people and figures closely resembling the eight immortals from Daoist mythology. These depictions suggest a deep connection to Daoism. Whether these carvings were a part of the original structure or added later after the caves were rediscovered in nineteen ninety-two remains a topic of debate. After close examining of the carvings and a noticing of unique method used to chip away at the rock for these images, it seems likely that they were added later.

• 2:01:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:48Joe Rogan?

  Perhaps turning the cave into a sacred place reflecting the religious beliefs at the time. Oh, so some gross people carved into it in nineteen ninety-two.

• 2:02:01Joe Rogan?

  It's so crazy that you did that, guys, because that's probably what people have done throughout time. I bet that's, you know, the probably the people that like put their dead body in the pyramid.

• 2:02:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's the thing with all the other things in Egypt is they, people have carved hieroglyphics onto there, but that doesn't mean that that's when the original thing was built.

• 2:02:17Joe Rogan?

  Can you go back to the video, please, Jamie, of that uh site? So we could see like what it looks like when you're walking around in it? Because uh the fact that they don't really know who made it? And the fact that these farmers found it in nineteen ninety-four, when you see the scope of it, that's where it really sets in.

• 2:02:37Speaker 01

  It's just unbelievably big.

• 2:02:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because I think like images are cool, but the way this guy's walking around it, you really get it.

• 2:02:43Speaker 01

  And then you have to times that by twenty-four.

• 2:02:46Joe Rogan?

  Imagine those farmers, they're like, should we tell anybody? If we don't, they're gonna kill us. They might kill us anyway.

• 2:02:53Speaker 03

  How much was added then afterwards if they did the carving, how much like stairs and?

• 2:02:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, all the stairs were added for sure, I bet. Right? The stairs that that guy's on?

• 2:03:02Speaker 03

  Looked too new, obviously.

• 2:03:03Speaker 01

  But again, what was this for? Like, why did they build this huge?

• 2:03:07Joe Rogan?

  All that shit looks new. Yeah, why did they? Like, what is this? The carvings.

• 2:03:15Speaker 03

  Unless they maybe they're trying to make the carvings to make it seem like it was older and people would come wander and just come look and it'd be a tourist attraction.

• 2:03:21Joe Rogan?

  Like, maybe without art, they didn't think it would get enough people to visit?

• 2:03:25Speaker 01

  I think it's also to kind of connect it to kind of, you know,

• 2:03:28Joe Rogan?

  Bro.

• 2:03:28Speaker 01

  More like contemporary cultural China rather than, because I mean, who knows how old this could be?

• 2:03:34Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:03:35Speaker 01

  Because it's stone.

• 2:03:36Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy. The fact that they just found it, just stumbled on it. That's what's the weirdest thing about some of the discoveries. Because that's the same with Gobekli Tepe. It was a sheep herder, right?

• 2:03:50Speaker 01

  Someone found Gobekli Tepe in the 60s and they didn't think it was anything, so they left it.

• 2:03:54Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:03:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like that guy fucking missed the boat a little bit.

• 2:03:56Joe Rogan?

  No way.

• 2:03:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, some American archaeologists found it in the 60s.

• 2:03:59Joe Rogan?

  What did he find?

• 2:04:00Speaker 01

  I can't remember, but they found like a little bit of it and they were like, oh, this is clearly just some like, you know, contemporary Bronze Age society. Don't worry about that.

• 2:04:10Joe Rogan?

  That guy must have shot himself.

• 2:04:11Speaker 01

  He fucking, he missed the boat a little bit, yeah, didn't he?

• 2:04:13Joe Rogan?

  I could be a stoic. I could have been the guy. Son of a fucking sheep herder.

• 2:04:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:20Joe Rogan?

  Because there was a guy who just found like a stone, right?

• 2:04:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, here it is, 1960s. A survey conducted by archaeologists from Istanbul University and the University of Chicago found some flint and limestone artifacts, but they didn't perceive the site as anything more than a medieval cemetery.

• 2:04:39Speaker 01

  Whoops.

• 2:04:39Joe Rogan?

  Whoopsies. Whoopsies.

• 2:04:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was the find of your career.

• 2:04:44Joe Rogan?

  That's so nuts. What a slip up. So, um, the sheep herder that found it, I think he just found like a corner of something. And he like kicked it with his boot and was like, what is this? And then started looking around, scraping it off. And then I think once he realized it was really big, they started, he goes like, maybe I should call somebody. Call somebody who knows how to dig.

• 2:05:06Speaker 01

  The whole like 5% excavation thing is so puzzling at Gobekli Tepe because, I mean, to be clear, that's kind of how, that's like normal practice, I think, for archaeology, but you would think that Gobekli Tepe is like a bit more of a, it's a special case.

• 2:05:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's not normal. That's, that should, but it's also, they make a lot of money off of tourism, of people visiting it the way it is, and that would disrupt everything if you had a bunch of eggheads digging into the ground all around you. I see that, but you know, then they started doing weird stuff like planting olive trees above the ruins and everyone was telling them like, hey, guys, if you do that, these trees are going to grow roots, the roots are going to destroy what's underneath them.

• 2:05:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:48Joe Rogan?

  And they're like, no, everything's going to be fine. And then they realize, oh, it's actually destroying what's underneath it.

• 2:05:53Speaker 01

  That's like a microcosm of the problem with a small section of very vocal kind of mainstream archaeologists. I think the whole tree controversy regarding Gobekli Tepe is, because it was Jimmy, right? Jimmy brought insight. Yeah, exactly.

• 2:06:06Joe Rogan?

  He can't go there anymore, you know?

• 2:06:09Speaker 01

  I'm not surprised.

• 2:06:10Joe Rogan?

  He might have snuck in recently.

• 2:06:11Speaker 01

  He did a video, yeah, he did a video.

• 2:06:12Joe Rogan?

  But I think he's banned from the country.

• 2:06:15Speaker 01

  From the whole of Turkey.

• 2:06:16Joe Rogan?

  I think he's banned from the site at the very least.

• 2:06:19Speaker 01

  It doesn't make sense because whatever you-

• 2:06:20Joe Rogan?

  They're mad at him for telling the truth.

• 2:06:21Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. Whatever you think of Jimmy, like, he was right.

• 2:06:25Joe Rogan?

  Let's find out if he's banned. I don't want to get Turkey mad at me. Because I think Turkey's probably the, that's probably the birthplace of civilization.

• 2:06:34Speaker 01

  Possible.

• 2:06:34Joe Rogan?

  Of what we think of as civilization. I mean, there's so many different things that they've found in Turkey now that's starting to lean people to think that like, maybe that spot, maybe we've, you know,

• 2:06:46Joe Rogan?

  it's, there was probably a bunch of places like that in the Middle East where civilization had sort of emerged from whatever had happened before.

• 2:06:57Speaker 01

  Or the Sahara.

• 2:06:58Joe Rogan?

  Or the Sahara, yeah. What do you think about the Richard? Let's get that in a second here. Oh, yeah, Turkey should have banned me when they had a chance, if my-

• 2:07:09Joe Rogan?

  Jimmy's so crazy. If my prior work on Gobekli Tepe upset them, what I will share in the coming days, weeks, is going to take things to another level. But because we were cunning around various security protocols and aided with exceptional timing, we got the footage. Our ancient history belongs to humanity, I agree. Anyone that opposes that has no place controlling our lost history. Good for you, Jimmy.

• 2:07:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, whatever you think about him, he was right about the trees. And the fact that they had these people kind of coming out defending the trees and saying the trees were good for archaeological sites, just...

• 2:07:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know what Jimmy has a degree in, if anything, but he clearly knows a lot about ancient history and he's really interested in it. And this, again, this gatekeeping. Like, if you watch his videos, and he constantly gets smeared with all sorts of different horrible claims that he's this and he's that, it's like, if you watch his videos, you know that's not true. He's just a guy who is very fascinated and deeply informed on a lot of the timelines of all these different things and how interesting they are. And he likes to make videos of them, and that's a good thing.

• 2:08:17Speaker 01

  Why shouldn't he be allowed to speculate? He's just a guy speculating.

• 2:08:20Joe Rogan?

  And he's really fair and balanced with how he talks about things.

• 2:08:24Speaker 01

  And he's good at it, man. He puts together arguments really well. And you just mentioned the reshut structure thing. I've watched his videos on that, and like, it's interesting, man, the way he kind of connects what Plato was saying about Atlantis and brings it all to the reshut, it's interesting stuff.

• 2:08:38Joe Rogan?

  It's very interesting, because it's also, he talks about how Plato would talk about the mountains to the north and the river to the south. It's like, this all lines up.

• 2:08:45Speaker 01

  Concentric rings.

• 2:08:46Joe Rogan?

  Concentric rings in the same size as was described as Atlantic.

• 2:08:51Speaker 01

  And the Tam and Rasse river system used to run, so it was surrounded by water, so it could have been...

• 2:08:56Joe Rogan?

  How come everybody's like, nah?

• 2:08:57Speaker 01

  Well, it's because you can't prove it, isn't it?

• 2:09:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a little bit of that, but it's also because this YouTube guy's the one talking about it. And that's, if they admit that he was right, that would drive them fucking crazy.

• 2:09:09Speaker 01

  They had to with the trees. They had to move them.

• 2:09:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:12Speaker 01

  Which is funny.

• 2:09:13Joe Rogan?

  Sorry. But I think he's right about Atlantis, too. I think he might be right. There's something about that that's... Weird. It's also weird if you look at it from a satellite perspective. The satellite imagery where you get to see where it all looks like it's been washed over by water.

• 2:09:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:09:28Joe Rogan?

  Like, the whole thing looks exactly like sand looks when the tide comes in and then pulls back.

• 2:09:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:34Joe Rogan?

  It's all rippled and it looks like it was pummeled by water.

• 2:09:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, and match the sinking into the sea in a single day and night.

• 2:09:43Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. And also, like, how many stories from ancient history depict floods? There's so many of them. Like, we can't, are we gonna ignore all of them as myth?

• 2:09:56Speaker 01

  Well, the idea that myth doesn't hold any kind of use in understanding the past is just ridiculous because the myth is powerful because it's the thing we've collectively remembered as a species, isn't it?

• 2:10:07Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:10:08Speaker 01

  So why would we dismiss that as a kind of, you know, historical record? And then you've got examples of, like, indigenous cultures that remember, that remember kind of scientific information through myth. I always go to this example of these kind of islanders during the tsunami in two thousand and four. And they, they, the way it went, it was the Andaman Islands and the kind of, you know, Western scientists or whatever went to the island after the Boxing Day tsunami and they were like, oh, everyone's gonna be dead. Like, they're all gonna have been wiped out by this tsunami. And they were fine because they had this myth in their culture that when the sea recedes, you get to high ground because then the waves are gonna come that will eat men.

• 2:10:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:48Speaker 01

  And that myth, you know, that has encoded scientific information regarding tsunamis. And that saved their, their culture's lives. And they had, like, no casualties compared to, you know, Western or modern people who were devastated.

• 2:10:59Joe Rogan?

  Everybody else was like, wow, look at all the sand. I thought the beach was over here.

• 2:11:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they all got fucking killed. And then these people with their myths, scientific information, survived.

• 2:11:10Joe Rogan?

  There's a guy who was hiking in Russia when the most recent tsunami hit. And he was on a cliff and you see the ocean come in and like, reach the top of the cliff where his dog is. See if you can find it. It's crazy. Cause he films the thing coming in. Like, this guy is way above the ocean.

• 2:11:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:11:31Joe Rogan?

  When it starts. And then the water is reaching where he is with his dog.

• 2:11:36Speaker 01

  It's just further testament to the power of nature. And we just constantly underestimate nature and...

• 2:11:41Joe Rogan?

  And that was just a little wiggle in the ocean.

• 2:11:43Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:11:44Joe Rogan?

  That's just a little wiggle. Just a little earthquake. Little earth, little, little eight pointer.

• 2:11:48Speaker 01

  And you think about some of the shit that's gone on during our time on Earth.

• 2:11:51Joe Rogan?

  Comet impacts and, like, watch this. So look how high this guy is, right?

• 2:11:56Speaker 01

  Way up.

• 2:11:57Joe Rogan?

  Way up, right? And so, as he's up here, you know, he's seeing the waves come in. Now, he must have known that this was going to happen, because everybody knew this was gonna happen.

• 2:12:11Joe Rogan?

  So, watch how it's coming in now. And now, it keeps coming. It keeps coming all the way to the top where he is. It's nuts! Look at his dog. His dog's like, "Yo!" I would be freaking out. I would be running. I wouldn't, I wouldn't trust it. What if it goes over the top where you're at? You're just guessing. Bro, look how high this water gets.

• 2:12:41Speaker 01

  That's terrifying. Yeah, he's out of there now.

• 2:12:42Joe Rogan?

  Look at that. The dog's about to get jacked. I mean, if you get trapped in that, like, bitch, you are not swimming to shore. That's your life. It's over. I don't care if you're Laird Hamilton. Well, he might swim through that. But isn't that nuts?

• 2:12:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're fucked.

• 2:12:57Joe Rogan?

  That water got all the way to the top of that hill. So, and that's, that is like, doesn't even register in the news.

• 2:13:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's just like, thing that happens all the time.

• 2:13:07Joe Rogan?

  That's a thing that hap- it's just like a thing. Like, no big deal. No one will remember that in five years. No one will remember that in 10 years. But if a fucking comet slams into the ocean right there, or slams into a glacier, a comet the size- Of, you know, a few city blocks. That's a rap.

• 2:13:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:27Joe Rogan?

  That's a rap. You, you have massive flooding, like instantaneous, millions of gallons of water tearing through the landscape. No more ice cap. It's all gone.

• 2:13:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, and just any kind of culture that was possibly around is just wipes, completely wiped clean from the earth.

• 2:13:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:48Speaker 01

  No record, nothing.

• 2:13:49Joe Rogan?

  You're Dunsville. There's nothing left. And that's real. This isn't speculation like that. We look at the Tunguska impact and that was the same sort of comet storm that we passed through.

• 2:14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:03Joe Rogan?

  At the same time of year and it flattened like this enormous chunk of Siberia that still doesn't have trees on it.

• 2:14:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that was, that's quite a small thing.

• 2:14:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and it didn't even hit. His air impact, yeah, so.

• 2:14:18Speaker 01

  And if that happened over a city, that's like millions dead.

• 2:14:20Joe Rogan?

  Millions. So that could be happening on this planet on a regular basis.

• 2:14:26Speaker 01

  It is.

• 2:14:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:27Speaker 01

  I mean, it's just, it's kind of fact that we, we get hit by stuff.

• 2:14:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're always finding a crater. We're like, oh, this one's three million years old. Look at this fucking crater.

• 2:14:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:35Joe Rogan?

  Three million years ago, everyone's fucked.

• 2:14:38Speaker 01

  If that estimate is correct, that we're hit by a, you know, a cataclysmic impact once every hundred thousand years, then, I mean,

• 2:14:47Speaker 01

  what does that mean?

• 2:14:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's where it gets really weird if you're talking about like an advanced civilization, like,

• 2:14:53Joe Rogan?

  you know, millions of years ago. Like, imagine if there was some sort of advanced life form millions of years ago and then something like that hits.

• 2:15:01Speaker 01

  Have you seen that wheel that's like three hundred million years old or, or it's like a preserve, it looks just like a wheel. Have you seen, you have?

• 2:15:07Joe Rogan?

  What is that?

• 2:15:08Speaker 01

  Jamie, could you please search, um, three hundred million year old wheel?

• 2:15:14Joe Rogan?

  Are you on TikTok a lot? Like, where are you getting this one?

• 2:15:16Speaker 01

  I've just seen it about and like, it looks like a wheel. It doesn't mean it is a wheel, but it looks remarkably.

• 2:15:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's some of the stuff from.

• 2:15:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the thing. It just kind of looks like a wheel and they found it in a mine and then they flooded the mine, which is a bit weird, but. There's a, there's a couple of better images of it. Um, I don't know if they'll be on this page, but, uh, yeah, there you go. That looks, they, it's like spokes and a wheel and all. I mean, could be natural, but, I mean, what the fuck is that, you know?

• 2:15:43Joe Rogan?

  That looks really weird. Now, what are these fossilized tracks?

• 2:15:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, these are also super old. They're called cart ruts.

• 2:15:54Joe Rogan?

  Again, found in Turkey.

• 2:15:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15:56Joe Rogan?

  Right? Including Sofka, where they, like I said that? Where they cover an area approximately forty-five by ten miles. And how do you say that one? There's a lot of words today.

• 2:16:08Joe Rogan?

  Kapadossia?

• 2:16:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:09Joe Rogan?

  Home to several clusters of tracks. The discovery of these ruts around the world sparked debate regarding their purpose, age, and origins in Malta, especially due to the proximity of the tracks to megalithic structures and the fact that some are now submerged beneath the sea.

• 2:16:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've seen some of them in Malta. I went to Malta, and they go off cliffs.

• 2:16:27Joe Rogan?

  Many researchers suggest these fossilized lines indicate significant antiquity. So if this is like mud that they were pulling these things through, or dirt that they were pulling these things through, and then it eventually fossilized into tracks, like what else would be the explanation for something that looks exactly like tracks? Is there a natural explanation for those kind of formations?

• 2:16:52Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't see anyone providing.

• 2:16:54Joe Rogan?

  No one has an... No one has an idea?

• 2:16:57Speaker 01

  No, I mean, I didn't really know about the ones on Malta, because I went there and kind of researched it, but those ones, they don't dispute, they're definitely man-made.

• 2:17:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, hold on. They're definitely man-made? Because listen to what this says. "I first saw tracks in stone, fossilized car or terrain vehicle traces, usually called cart ruts, on Neogen plantation surfaces,

• 2:17:18Joe Rogan?

  Penaplin in Phrygian..."

• 2:17:22Speaker 01

  Phrygian, I think?

• 2:17:23Joe Rogan?

  Phrygian, Phrygian plain in May of 2014. They were situated in the field of development of middle and late... How do you say that? Miocene? Miocene tufts?

• 2:17:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:33Joe Rogan?

  And tufts, tuftsites? And according to age analysis of nearby volcanic rocks, had middle Miocene age of twelve to fourteen million years.

• 2:17:45Speaker 01

  Yes, this is Turkey, not Malta, but again, I mean, you've got these cart ruts that look like, you know, some sort of track, and it's millions of years old, and then you find that wheel nearby.

• 2:17:56Joe Rogan?

  That's fucking crazy.

• 2:17:59Speaker 01

  And you're like, "What is this?"

• 2:18:00Joe Rogan?

  I will look at what this says.

• 2:18:03Joe Rogan?

  Coltipin holds, okay, "The region that Dr. Coltipin has studied is relatively obscure, with guidebooks offering little to no information about it. While mainstream researchers argue that the tracks are merely petrified remnants of old cart ruts left by wheeled vehicles pulled by donkeys or camels. Coltipin holds a different perspective. Rejecting these conventional explanations, he stated firmly, 'I will never accept it. I will always remember many other inhabitants of our planet wiped from our history.'" His research suggested a deeper, perhaps forgotten, history of Earth and its past civilizations." Like, "What?"

• 2:18:41Speaker 01

  Because if it's back to the Solerian hypothesis, if it was millions of years ago, how would we, we wouldn't know?

• 2:18:46Joe Rogan?

  Can you imagine millions of years ago, people had the wheel?

• 2:18:48Speaker 01

  Or something. Might not be people.

• 2:18:50Joe Rogan?

  Something, whatever they were, was pulling things on wheels.

• 2:18:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:56Joe Rogan?

  And they had cart ruts in the ground. So, maybe they didn't have... This is fucking crazy. Coltipin theorizes that the civilization responsible for driving these heavy vehicles likely built the numerous identical roads, ruts, and underground complexes scattered across the Mediterranean region more than 12 million years ago. He acknowledges that petrification can occur relatively quickly, but points to the heavy mineral deposits on the tracks and signs of erosion as evidence of much, of a much older timeline. He also connects these tracks to surrounding underground cities, irrigation systems, and wells, which he believes are millions of years old.

• 2:19:40Speaker 01

  Yes, that's like Darren Cuyoo. So what if Darren Cuyoo is millions of years old and these tracks are related to it?

• 2:19:47Joe Rogan?

  This is so crazy. On his website, Coltipin wrote, oh, I hope I'm not fucking his name out. "We are dealing with extremely tough, lithified, petrified sediments covering, covered with a thick layer of weathering that takes millions of years to develop, full of multiple cracks with newly developed minerals in them, which could only emerge in periods of high tectonic activity." Whoa.

• 2:20:16Speaker 01

  Pretty crazy, huh?

• 2:20:17Joe Rogan?

  That's the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life. That's crazy, cuz I knew those cart ruts existed, but I didn't look into them. I didn't know what the timeline was. I didn't know that there's anybody that's even speculating. That thing looks like a fucking wheel.

• 2:20:32Speaker 01

  And it's right in the same place. So you've got this fossilized wheel and these fossilized cart ruts from hundreds of millions of years ago.

• 2:20:38Joe Rogan?

  The wheel was printed in a sandstone of the roof. Guys, drifters, tried to cut away the find with the pick hammers and tried to take it out to the surface, but sandstone was so strong and firm. And having been afraid to damage a print, they have left it in place. At present, the mine is closed. And access to the object is impossible. The equipment dismantled and the given layers are already flooded. Uh...

• 2:21:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, they flooded-

• 2:21:10Joe Rogan?

  Get in there. Why would you flood that?

• 2:21:12Speaker 01

  I think it was something to do with like, just, I don't think it's like some conspiracy, like hide the wheel, hide the wheel, but, I mean, maybe it would. But I think it's more just like the practice of what they would, they were finished their mining thing and they found this wheel. They weren't gonna excavate the wheel cuz they were like-

• 2:21:24Joe Rogan?

  Bro, if that's a real wheel, if, if someone can carve that out of there and realize like, if scientists look at it, they get a 3D scan of it and they go, okay. We have to completely rethink everything. If something had a wheel 12 million years ago-

• 2:21:43Speaker 01

  300 million.

• 2:21:44Joe Rogan?

  300... What?

• 2:21:48Speaker 01

  It's nuts.

• 2:21:49Joe Rogan?

  Like, what are we talking about?

• 2:21:51Speaker 01

  I mean, it would, it would be like the Solerian hypothesis. It would be another, it wouldn't be human unless, you mean, we'd have to radically rewrite everything if that was human.

• 2:21:57Joe Rogan?

  Right, but what does that mean then? Like, what are we talking about?

• 2:22:00Speaker 01

  Just different intelligence. Some other species.

• 2:22:03Joe Rogan?

  So maybe there was something like us that lived like medieval humans? That was millions of years ago?

• 2:22:10Speaker 01

  It's the same problems. Like, we have, like, if they're living on Earth, they're dealing with the same kind of physics. They, you know, they have to move materials around. Like, why would you not come up with the same kind of thing, like a wheel? Like, it's a simple invention.

• 2:22:21Joe Rogan?

  That's what's interesting too, and we're always finding new dinosaurs. Like, that's a common thing, right? And if these were a type of human being or something similar to human beings that buried their dead-

• 2:22:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:33Joe Rogan?

  What are we gonna find? Like, what are we gonna find after 12 million years?

• 2:22:38Speaker 01

  Nothing, except for maybe a fossilized wheel.

• 2:22:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, or these wheel tracks.

• 2:22:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, what is the conventional explanation of these wheel tracks?

• 2:22:45Speaker 01

  I don't know, but all I know about the ones in Malta, and they definitely say they're manmade. I don't know about these ones in Turkey, I haven't really looked into it, but...

• 2:22:53Joe Rogan?

  Those are crazy.

• 2:22:54Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:22:54Joe Rogan?

  And the fact that they go to underground structures?

• 2:22:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:57Joe Rogan?

  Help me.

• 2:22:58Speaker 01

  I know. Well, they're near there. I don't think they directly lead to like Derengue or anything, but they're nearby. And then, so then you start to think, what if Derengue is like, you know, to be fair, I think that's probably manmade, but, you know, it's stone, so...

• 2:23:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm sure it's manmade, but like, what kind of man?

• 2:23:16Speaker 01

  And it could have been man-adapted. It could have already been something there, and we kind of changed it.

• 2:23:22Joe Rogan?

  That would be completely fucked if we found out there was another type of human that existed that did all that 12 million years ago.

• 2:23:29Speaker 01

  Well, it wouldn't even have to be a human. It could be any kind of life, just intelligence.

• 2:23:34Joe Rogan?

  Right, but there's no evidence that anything other than primates have been that capable of manipulating their environment other than primates, right?

• 2:23:41Speaker 01

  I guess so, yeah.

• 2:23:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, we also know that there's certain, we're finding new ones all the time, right? This one that they found, I keep fucking it up, Homo Julians, is that it?

• 2:23:53Joe Rogan?

  Antictheria?

• 2:23:56Speaker 01

  Close, Anticthera.

• 2:23:57Joe Rogan?

  Anticthera, I'm gonna get that right. I fucked this one up too, the Homo Julians. But this one was larger than us, it had a larger brain capacity, and they know that they just, I mean, this was just published in December of 2024. So they know that they're constantly finding new branches of the human tree.

• 2:24:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then you got Denisovens or Denisovens, however you pronounce that. And they just reclassified that dragon man scholar's Denisovan, and that's a huge...

• 2:24:31Speaker 01

  Um.

• 2:24:32Joe Rogan?

  Yes, so Juluensis. Is that how you would say that?

• 2:24:36Speaker 01

  I've never heard of this.

• 2:24:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, cuz it's really new.

• 2:24:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:39Joe Rogan?

  A new big-headed archaic humans. Bigger than us. With big ass heads.

• 2:24:47Joe Rogan?

  And big brains.

• 2:24:48Speaker 01

  Well, then you kind of get into the thing of like giants and stuff and like could giants have been real?

• 2:24:53Joe Rogan?

  It seems like that's a giant.

• 2:24:54Speaker 01

  Exactly, and there is giant primates that have been like confirmed, like Gigantopithecus or whatever it's called.

• 2:25:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:00Speaker 01

  You have hobbit humans like Homo florentis.

• 2:25:04Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:25:04Speaker 01

  I don't know how you pronounce that, but you have hobbit humans, you have giant primates. Why can't you have giant humans?

• 2:25:09Joe Rogan?

  I think they did. I think that's why giants are always in the Bible, and I think this thing, how how old is this fossil that they found? Of Juluensis?

• 2:25:22Joe Rogan?

  So this one existed alongside, um, I believe alongside at least

• 2:25:32Joe Rogan?

  some versions of man.

• 2:25:36Joe Rogan?

  Does it say how old it is?

• 2:25:39Joe Rogan?

  Three hundred thousand or million?

• 2:25:42Speaker 01

  Million. So that would that would just overlap with us then.

• 2:25:46Joe Rogan?

  Three hundred thousand years old?

• 2:25:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:25:48Joe Rogan?

  Right, so but here's the thing. They don't have a lot of this stuff. They don't have a lot of evidence of this creature. So, right, so they have, I believe it's one site. Is that correct? Is there one site where they found this?

• 2:26:01Speaker 03

  Partly on a very large skull found in China.

• 2:26:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so how many have they not found? That's the real, real problem with us and this whole fossil record thing is that we're dealing with a very limited amount of information. It's very difficult to become information. It's very difficult to become evidence.

• 2:26:18Speaker 01

  Especially when you get up to these, again, it's the preservation problem. We can't, when you go back this far, it's so hard to find stuff.

• 2:26:24Joe Rogan?

  You should see what this thing looks like when they do like a 3D image of a depiction. First of all, they make it look super primitive. They cover it with hair and give it jack muscles. It looks like this freak, but whatever it is, it's way bigger than us. And it's a human and it lived alongside us, so David and Goliath, it's right there.

• 2:26:42Speaker 01

  And there's also the, I think it's called Meganthropus, which is a

• 2:26:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what it looked like supposedly.

• 2:26:48Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:26:48Joe Rogan?

  Meanwhile, he probably had a calculator.

• 2:26:50Speaker 01

  They make everything look like that.

• 2:26:51Joe Rogan?

  Cannon.

• 2:26:52Speaker 01

  Everyone's stupid and walking around in.

• 2:26:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, everyone's stupid, everyone has a stick in their hand.

• 2:26:56Speaker 03

  When I was looking up that wheel, I came across the London Hammer.

• 2:27:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I've heard of that too, but I heard that that was dissolved.

• 2:27:04Speaker 03

  I'm not seeing, I mean, it doesn't make sense. I'll just go with that. It's, it was found in 1936, I think, but the limestone around it is supposedly 100 million years old.

• 2:27:14Speaker 01

  Ah shit, I never heard of this.

• 2:27:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, someone had an explanation for that.

• 2:27:18Speaker 03

  London, Texas, not England, just so.

• 2:27:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, someone had an explanation for that. I don't remember what it was.

• 2:27:24Speaker 03

  I'm looking over at mysteries, a lot of people discussing it.

• 2:27:27Joe Rogan?

  Um, why don't you look up, uh, London Hammer Debunked?

• 2:27:32Speaker 03

  Um, that's, I mean, wouldn't someone want to debunk it?

• 2:27:35Joe Rogan?

  I know they would, but I want to know if they're right, you know? I'm sure someone would want to.

• 2:27:39Speaker 03

  There's lots of, I'm just going, there's lots of people saying it's real and fake, and there's just not a lot of explanation on how it was found in the old limestone.

• 2:27:47Joe Rogan?

  Okay, radiocarbon dating of the wooden handle and the geological analysis have largely debunked the idea of extreme antiquity. More details, the artifact, the London Hammer is a metal hammerhead with a wooden handle, found partially encased in a concretion, hard, compact mass of mineral matter. The claims some have interpreted the hammer's presence in the rock as evidence of advanced ancient civilizations, or a young earth pointing to the seemingly anomalous placement of a modern-looking tool in ancient rock. Evidence against antiquity radiocarbon dating of the wooden handle has placed its origin within the historical period, not millions of years. Geological processes, the concretion itself is not necessarily ancient. This is what I had read.

• 2:28:29Joe Rogan?

  Minerals in solution can harden around objects dropped or left in cracks, or on the surface of soluble rock, according to Gaia. Out-of-place artifacts, while the concept of out-of-place artifacts can be intriguing, the London Hammer doesn't meet the criteria of being considered an out-of-place artifact, as its geological context and dating suggest a more recent origin. You know, one of the things that I, um, always go to with Egypt is those really bizarre-looking things that almost look like, like a, a part of a machine, like a, that wheel thing.

• 2:29:06Speaker 01

  Schist disc, I think.

• 2:29:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's something, I don't, I don't remember what it's called, some kind of a disc. But it looks like a part of something, like almost a fan. You're looking at it like, okay, what is that thing doing? Is that a turbine? Is that in water? Does like, something spin? Like, what is that? The fact that that's real, that, that one drives me nuts.

• 2:29:24Speaker 01

  It literally looks exactly like something.

• 2:29:26Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that's a replicate, right?

• 2:29:27Speaker 01

  Be part of a machine.

• 2:29:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, they found the pieces of, I've seen someone put it, they've cranked it up in water and it can like displace water in a very unique way.

• 2:29:35Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:29:36Speaker 03

  I don't know if that's, you know, the use of it, but that's a.

• 2:29:39Joe Rogan?

  Um, see if you can get an image of the actual one, not a recreation, because I think there's been some, some of them, uh, they've recreated it. Because I think it's a very valuable thing. So when people are looking at, I think a lot of times they're looking at recreations.

• 2:29:55Joe Rogan?

  But whatever it was, no one can figure it out, right? And it's carved out of stone. So how? What, what, what are you doing? What does that thing do? You know?

• 2:30:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:30:08Joe Rogan?

  That thing looks like a part of a machine. It, it looks like a part, like if, you know, like you have some ancient machine and you've got a, does a bunch of things.

• 2:30:17Speaker 03

  It's a beer mixer.

• 2:30:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:30:20Speaker 03

  But I mean, if you go with Brian Marresco, then I need to mix that, that stuff up somehow.

• 2:30:25Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, that's true, actually, right? But it's probably.

• 2:30:28Speaker 03

  Beer, but.

• 2:30:29Joe Rogan?

  It's probably just one of many different tools that were missing from back then. If that is just their stuff for making what they call beer. Brian Marresco is the guy who wrote the immortality key. I don't know if you ever read any of his stuff, but a lot of it is about, uh, ancient Ulysses, ancient Greece and the Illusinian mysteries.

• 2:30:47Speaker 01

  Psychedelics again.

• 2:30:47Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:30:48Speaker 01

  I haven't read it, but yeah.

• 2:30:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But a lot of it is, you know, what we think of as beer and wine, their, all their stuff was laced.

• 2:30:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:30:55Joe Rogan?

  It was all laced with ergot and a bunch of other stuff and different psychedelics that we haven't really identified yet.

• 2:31:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they combine that with their kind of spirituality and.

• 2:31:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:05Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 2:31:06Joe Rogan?

  And that's why they built the society that they built.

• 2:31:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:31:10Joe Rogan?

  Which is the craziest thing about, you know, our weirdo technological advanced society is disconnected from that because it's illegal.

• 2:31:19Speaker 01

  Disconnected from the stars as well.

• 2:31:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:21Speaker 01

  Disconnected from.

• 2:31:22Joe Rogan?

  Light pollution, yeah.

• 2:31:23Speaker 01

  And we're just all kind of rushing around in this really hectic life of just like, you know, gotta do this, gotta do this and just not sitting back and kind of appreciating. What was that?

• 2:31:34Speaker 03

  From an unknown author on Reddit. That's when they put it on a drill.

• 2:31:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so they made one of it and put it on a drill?

• 2:31:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31:40Joe Rogan?

  That's great if you have a drill.

• 2:31:43Joe Rogan?

  So we're assuming that the Egyptians had a drill. I'm assuming they had a drill.

• 2:31:47Speaker 01

  I think they definitely, I mean, they have all those drill holes, don't they? And they find all these.

• 2:31:50Joe Rogan?

  And people are like, "Oh, that's normal."

• 2:31:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:31:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, I can explain that way.

• 2:31:54Speaker 01

  And there's that spiral thing, I can't remember what it's called, but, um, what's it called? The Chris Dunn did like a, he put like a thread around it to show it was a spiral.

• 2:32:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yes, yes, yes, the groove of it, yeah. And he also estimated the revolutions per minute.

• 2:32:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:06Joe Rogan?

  That would take to do something like that.

• 2:32:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:08Joe Rogan?

  So you're talking about something that like is going into extremely hard rock. And looks like it has some extremely hard tip that can cut that rock. Like, what is it made out of?

• 2:32:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's it, that's it. And these are like serious people, these are engineers that are saying this kind of thing. And the problem is that, you know, archaeologists and Egyptologists are all a certain type of person that don't have the expertise in, like, you know, recognizing machined artifacts.

• 2:32:35Joe Rogan?

  Also, they're dorks and they don't connect with people because they're so arrogant and the way they talk about these things, it freaks people out and it makes them not want to listen. This is, I think, the thing that frustrates them the most about alternative historians like Graham Hancock. He's really interesting.

• 2:32:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:54Joe Rogan?

  He's compelling.

• 2:32:55Speaker 01

  And he's a great communicator as well.

• 2:32:56Joe Rogan?

  He's a great communicator and a wonderful guy and people love him and they go, "Oh, fuck that guy." "He's our racist, he's our this, he's our that."

• 2:33:04Speaker 01

  And he's more popular than them as well.

• 2:33:06Joe Rogan?

  Yes, that's what drives them nuts. But what, it should be exciting to them because it's stimulating people's desire to know where we come from. And that's supposed to be your business. That's supposed to be what you're into.

• 2:33:20Speaker 01

  And all he's doing is asking questions and like putting forward a thi- I don't think Graham would ever claim to like be, you know, certain or to, he's just saying this could be possible, you know?

• 2:33:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's got some ideas that I think are a big stretch. And then he's got some ideas that I think are dead on the head, but he will tell you that himself.

• 2:33:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:33:40Joe Rogan?

  He will tell you that himself. He's just trying to figure this out.

• 2:33:43Speaker 01

  And that's the position he always has come from.

• 2:33:45Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:33:46Speaker 01

  And, but they kind of see it and they're saying, "How dare you claim that you have proof?" And I don't think he's ever said he's got proof.

• 2:33:51Joe Rogan?

  And he's such a nice and sensitive person that like this stuff really fucking hurts his feelings.

• 2:33:56Speaker 01

  I can imagine, mate. It must be hard.

• 2:33:58Joe Rogan?

  And it's not necessary. Everybody should be working together. They really should. And the academics, everyone knows that you had a limited amount of information before and there's more information now. Like, your students are not gonna- I hate you if you say, listen, I wrote a whole book on this. This is so crazy, but I was so wrong.

• 2:34:17Speaker 01

  They would respect you more.

• 2:34:18Joe Rogan?

  They would probably respect you more. Yeah, the thing about it is like that book is still out there and academics like to point at each other and make fools of each other. They really love to do that. They really love to. I see them do it to each other on Twitter all the time. They'll dismiss someone's credentials and say his work is shit and they're like, God, you're such bitches.

• 2:34:39Speaker 01

  They're brutal. They're brutal to each other, let alone someone who's.

• 2:34:41Joe Rogan?

  To each other, yeah, like high school girls, like talking shit about each other in chat messages, you know? Or high school boys, they do the same thing. But it's, or fucking grown men do it, obviously. And these guys are just like that. There's, but it's also, I think some of these guys are socially stunted. Because they've, they've spent so much time with their head in academia and their head in books. That they don't realize that the rest of the world sees that behavior in a very transparent way. If you're acting like a bitch online and all you do is say mean things about people. It's, that's not, you're not hiding what you are.

• 2:35:23Joe Rogan?

  Every reasonable person sees that and instantaneously knows what's going on. This, this is irrational behavior. You're calling people racist because they're questioning the timeline of human civilization based on evidence, based on really bizarre things that no one can explain. Based on water erosion on rocks, now you're racist? Like, what are you talking about?

• 2:35:47Speaker 01

  It's just a way of like, you know, shutting down the ideas.

• 2:35:49Joe Rogan?

  It's exactly what it is. It's exactly what it is. But it's, it's done by people that are socially stunted. And they don't understand that most normal, rational people who see them behave this way are never going to listen to them again. By doing this bitchy thing, you have discounted your own participation in any true like intellectual discourse. Cause everybody knows you're a bad faith actor now. You're a bad person. You're, you're, you're saying things because you're trying to shut down a conversation instead of saying, huh? Tell me what you did. How'd you get to this? So what is he saying? Water erosion. Whoa. Show me. Show me the water erosion.

• 2:36:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, fucking hell, that does look like water erosion. Okay.

• 2:36:35Speaker 01

  Maybe we should like reevaluate this.

• 2:36:36Joe Rogan?

  Maybe we should bring you in to teach, you know, like what are we doing? We're, we're, we're gatekeeping. We're gatekeeping information because it's protecting fragile egos of socially stunted people.

• 2:36:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. And they've always, you know, they, they.

• 2:36:50Joe Rogan?

  Not to say they haven't done great things.

• 2:36:52Speaker 01

  They, exactly.

• 2:36:52Joe Rogan?

  They have and they do deserve the credit for that. But we should give them amnesty for fucking up.

• 2:36:57Speaker 01

  But no one, yeah, I mean, we wouldn't be able to talk about these things without, you know, mainstream.

• 2:37:02Joe Rogan?

  I know, but you imagine what Harry in the math department, when you've been shitting on a string theory? And now it finds, oh, look, look who's wrong about the timeline.

• 2:37:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:37:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's Mike the fucking genius. They're like shit about each other, throwing coffee at each other. They're a bunch of animals. They're just like, like any other group of men, you know?

• 2:37:22Speaker 01

  It's just a human thing, isn't it? We're all just humans.

• 2:37:24Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:37:24Speaker 01

  That's just, you know.

• 2:37:25Joe Rogan?

  Chess players cheat.

• 2:37:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:37:28Joe Rogan?

  Like even genius ones.

• 2:37:29Speaker 01

  And often like these people, this is like, you know, the thing that they've worked on and the kind of biggest success they've had in their lives.

• 2:37:35Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:37:35Speaker 01

  They don't want that taken away.

• 2:37:37Joe Rogan?

  They don't want it taken away and they don't want to deal with those other academics who are going to stick it in their face.

• 2:37:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:37:43Joe Rogan?

  Forty years, Bob. Forty years you've been teaching lies. How's that feel? How about all those college kids that left with a real fucked up view of human history because of you, Bob?

• 2:37:54Speaker 01

  Come on, Bob. Yeah, I mean.

• 2:37:55Joe Rogan?

  Poor Bob.

• 2:37:56Speaker 01

  Poor Bob.

• 2:37:57Joe Rogan?

  Bob is gonna just like write a note and blow his brains out.

• 2:38:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean, I don't know. I just, I hope that things are gonna shift over time and over the next few decades, we're gonna see a big.

• 2:38:07Joe Rogan?

  One funeral at a time.

• 2:38:08Speaker 01

  I guess so. That is the Max Planck quote, isn't it? But I hope it doesn't have to take that long. And I wish people would shift their positions, man, because.

• 2:38:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, again, I think new people coming in, it's like a lot of things, you know? New people come in, they have new ideas and the old dinosaurs.

• 2:38:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. But I think it's, I don't know, our adherence to these ideas is kind of. Distorted our understanding of history and it's kind of prevented us from looking for things because, you know, we assume that these things, oh shit, sorry.

• 2:38:36Joe Rogan?

  No worries.

• 2:38:36Speaker 01

  Almost unplugged the microphone.

• 2:38:37Joe Rogan?

  That wheel is still freaking me out.

• 2:38:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's crazy, huh?

• 2:38:41Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 2:38:41Speaker 01

  But we just don't look for these things.

• 2:38:42Joe Rogan?

  Have you seen any of Jesse Michaels' stuff?

• 2:38:45Speaker 01

  He's the uh, kind of UAP kind of guy, isn't he?

• 2:38:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:49Speaker 01

  I haven't really, I don't, I, I do kind of delve into that, but I don't, I mean, I don't like talk about or anything, but.

• 2:38:54Joe Rogan?

  His latest one is.

• 2:38:57Speaker 01

  Is this to do with the mummy?

• 2:38:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the tridactyl mummies in Peru.

• 2:39:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the one.

• 2:39:01Joe Rogan?

  Where they've done scans of them and they have a fully intact bone structure, looks like an actual creature. Fully intact, three feet, three toes, different shaped head than us. Whatever it is, like, and also seventeen hundred years old, like, what is that?

• 2:39:18Speaker 01

  So what's the like debunking of that?

• 2:39:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's some of them that people have made that seem to be a complete fabrication. It seems to be, some of them, they've pieced together bones and created like a fake artifact and tried to sell it off. But then there's these other ones that were found that don't look like that at all. They look like they're, they're huddled up. One of them has a fetus inside of it. Yeah.

• 2:39:44Speaker 01

  What the fuck?

• 2:39:44Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. They, and whatever these things are, show them the video when, when you see the scans of it. Um, American Alchemy, Jesse Michaels, awesome show.

• 2:39:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's cool, man. I watched his show on here. He's awesome.

• 2:39:57Joe Rogan?

  Um, yeah, A-M-I-C-H-E-L-S.

• 2:40:01Speaker 01

  And didn't, isn't there also, I might have made this up, but isn't there also like depictions of this in kind of ancient?

• 2:40:07Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:40:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, is that true?

• 2:40:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, ancient artwork, three fingered, three toed people with big heads.

• 2:40:12Speaker 01

  Well, that's weird then.

• 2:40:12Joe Rogan?

  Weird. When you see this thing, this thing looks exactly like these, this is it. This is an actual scan of this mummy.

• 2:40:24Joe Rogan?

  Look at the size of the head, look at the shape of the head, look at all the bones, look at all the ribs, everything. That's fucking bananas.

• 2:40:35Joe Rogan?

  Now, um, Jamie, show him what it looks like before they scan it. So they, they found them encased in, I think it's dichotomous earth. Is that what it was?

• 2:40:45Speaker 01

  But how old do they think the, these things are?

• 2:40:47Joe Rogan?

  Some of them are 700 years old and some of them are as old as 1700 years old.

• 2:40:52Speaker 01

  So not that old though?

• 2:40:53Joe Rogan?

  But look at that thing. So this thing, this thing.

• 2:40:57Speaker 01

  That is ridiculous.

• 2:40:58Joe Rogan?

  That seems to be an actual mummy of a real creature.

• 2:41:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41:04Joe Rogan?

  And here's the thing, like...

• 2:41:05Speaker 01

  Is that Jesse there?

• 2:41:06Joe Rogan?

  No, yeah, Jesse's right there.

• 2:41:08Speaker 01

  There he is, yeah.

• 2:41:08Joe Rogan?

  Jesse is doing real journalism on this. This is what's, it sounds crazy to everybody, including me, as it comes out of my mouth. But then when you look at that scan, not crazy anymore. That's one of a smaller one, but the bigger one with the big head, that one right there, that one's crazy. Like, what the fuck is that? If that was a person, you would run for the hills. With a head that shape, with three fingers and three toes. And the fact that they have artwork depicting these things that goes back...

• 2:41:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, because if it's a fake, then how are they depicting it?

• 2:41:40Joe Rogan?

  Right, what is this? Like, did they ha- look at, look at the scans of the foot.

• 2:41:44Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:41:45Joe Rogan?

  Go back to that. This is crazy! It's almost, if, like, it defies the possibility of it being fraudulent. It defies it. It's like, make that. You show me how you can make that, where you can scan it and you see the tissue and the ligaments and the tendons and the cartilage and the joints, and they're not human-shaped.

• 2:42:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's pretty crazy. I haven't really looked into this, but this is kinda nuts.

• 2:42:18Joe Rogan?

  If these were real creatures that existed at one point in time alongside us, and they're just now finding them. Now then you get to, you get into ultimate weirdness, cause like, okay, what's the Nazca Lines for? Cause that's the same part of the world.

• 2:42:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then there's other weird like artwork of kinda like things that look alien and in, you know, South America.

• 2:42:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's one of the Nazca Lines looks like a fucking spacesuit. Looks like a guy in a spacesuit. And also like, why would you make artwork that you can only see from the sky?

• 2:42:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's always puzzled me about that.

• 2:42:49Joe Rogan?

  Weird.

• 2:42:50Speaker 01

  So weird.

• 2:42:50Joe Rogan?

  The same part of the world where you're finding these things?

• 2:42:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. And they're all, they're like perfectly done as well.

• 2:42:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:56Speaker 01

  And they're perfect like, you know, lines and shapes and

• 2:42:59Joe Rogan?

  Weird.

• 2:43:00Speaker 01

  geometric drawings.

• 2:43:01Joe Rogan?

  And they keep finding new ones.

• 2:43:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, they do, yeah.

• 2:43:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's very strange.

• 2:43:05Speaker 01

  I mean, South America is just, you know, it's, I think South America and Egypt slash Turkey are the two kinda areas that are the most kind of, you know, mysterious and like, there's so much going on there that I think we haven't quite acknowledged how much mystery there is still left and, yeah. Fascinating, especially when you throw this in. I mean, I haven't really, I haven't looked into this at all, but

• 2:43:25Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 2:43:25Speaker 01

  I'm gonna have to start watching Jesse's shit.

• 2:43:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, what is that?

• 2:43:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's mad.

• 2:43:28Joe Rogan?

  Now, what if they find out that's not a human at all?

• 2:43:31Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, it doesn't look like a, doesn't look like a human.

• 2:43:33Joe Rogan?

  No, right. Like, I mean, it could be.

• 2:43:35Speaker 01

  I guess it's kinda humanoid, but...

• 2:43:36Joe Rogan?

  It could be some bizarre mutation, right? Like those ostrich feet people in Africa, have you seen that?

• 2:43:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I guess so.

• 2:43:44Joe Rogan?

  It's possible that there's some weird mutation and this is a bunch of people with big heads and three fingers and three toes, but it doesn't seem like it.

• 2:43:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:43:53Joe Rogan?

  It seems like something different. Also, what are you doing with three fingers? You're operating electronics only. Like, you ain't picking shit up. You can't do anything. You don't have opposable thumbs. The idea that you have something that looks like us that doesn't have opposable thumbs, like...

• 2:44:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's like a big evolutionary kind of advantage, yeah.

• 2:44:10Joe Rogan?

  What is this thing doing?

• 2:44:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:44:11Joe Rogan?

  What are you doing? Unless all you do is like, put your hand on a, on a machine and you control everything tel- with telepathy and you just control it by touching it. And you don't need, you know, maybe it gets to a point where we stop using our thumbs and they just fucking drift away. We only need a couple of digits.

• 2:44:28Speaker 01

  So what I like, what is like Jesse's theories on what?

• 2:44:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, their fingers have an extra digit, too.

• 2:44:34Speaker 01

  What does that mean?

• 2:44:34Joe Rogan?

  So you know how like, you know, your, your finger bends in a certain way, they have, what is it, an extra phalange? What would you call it? An extra little, you know, you have like one, two, three bones, they have a fourth.

• 2:44:48Joe Rogan?

  Fourth bone, so you could type quicker with the three fingers, I don't fucking know. But it's like, that's not us, that's something weird. The skull shape is weird, but it looks like a real thing.

• 2:45:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, if that's real, that kind of, you know, changes everything.

• 2:45:03Joe Rogan?

  Changes everything, and you don't hear in the New York Times, you're not seeing in the New York Post, it's not in the Wall Street Journal, but they might have actually found a life form in mummified form that's not us. That looks a lot like these fucking aliens that people have been talking about since the beginning of time.

• 2:45:21Speaker 01

  And why is, so why is no one talking about it except for Jesse?

• 2:45:24Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, man, look at that, look at the x-rays of them. Look, you see, it has an extra little thing at the end.

• 2:45:29Speaker 01

  That's like an incredible fake, if that's a fake.

• 2:45:31Joe Rogan?

  That's not our fingers, man, that's a little extra joint. And it's not, the fingers aren't even, you'd have to be like the freakiest long-fingered motherfucker that's ever lived to have fingers that long. Those are weird.

• 2:45:43Speaker 01

  And yes.

• 2:45:43Joe Rogan?

  That's not us, that's something different.

• 2:45:46Speaker 01

  That's bizarre.

• 2:45:47Joe Rogan?

  Very bizarre. Again, anybody who tells you that we know it all, they're full of shit. If that's real, you don't know anything.

• 2:45:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:45:58Joe Rogan?

  If that's real, if that becomes mainstream, if this is from Jesse, and I hope it does, and they do genetic testing on this thing, and then someone figures out what it is, and it's got different chromosomes than us, and different DNA than us, like... Now what?

• 2:46:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:46:15Joe Rogan?

  Now what?

• 2:46:16Speaker 01

  What are the chances we have got everything? You know, because these people seem to think that, you know, we've got it all worked out now.

• 2:46:21Joe Rogan?

  It's zero. The chances are zero.

• 2:46:22Speaker 01

  It's never been the case. And we've always thought we've had it all worked out all the way through history. It's always like, oh, now we know the answers. And it's always, there's always a major paradigm shift around the corner.

• 2:46:30Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:46:31Speaker 01

  So what's around the corner now?

• 2:46:32Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:46:33Speaker 01

  Something like this, or the ancient civilization thing?

• 2:46:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, it's so fun, though. It's really exciting. It's a really exciting time to find things out because if this had emerged 50 years ago, 75 years ago, there's no Jesse Michaels, there's no YouTube, there's no podcast like this to talk about Jesse Michaels and send a bunch of people over to go watch it. More people know, the better. Let's like, look at this. This might be real. This is crazy.

• 2:47:01Speaker 01

  And that's why it probably is coming out in this kind of day and age because the internet's not been around for very long.

• 2:47:07Joe Rogan?

  But why isn't MSNBC covering this? Why isn't CNN covering this? They should all be covering this. They should all be going, look at these scans that this YouTuber Jesse Michaels did. If this is true, this seems like something that's not a human being.

• 2:47:22Speaker 01

  I know, it's just too...

• 2:47:24Joe Rogan?

  Aliens are real.

• 2:47:26Speaker 03

  This is from 2017. Someone had found just a hand.

• 2:47:30Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:47:31Speaker 03

  It's obviously the same hand.

• 2:47:32Joe Rogan?

  Bizarre three-fingered hand in 2017. Mummified hand found in a tunnel in Peru.

• 2:47:39Speaker 03

  It said these fingers had six bones.

• 2:47:41Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:47:44Speaker 03

  Regular human bone has three.

• 2:47:45Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:47:49Joe Rogan?

  Dude.

• 2:47:50Speaker 01

  Mummified hand is made up of bone and skin suggesting that it's not fake unless it was somehow made using real bones, flesh and skin. But how would you fake?

• 2:47:57Joe Rogan?

  How would you do that a long time ago and then mummify it? Yeah. It's all so strange. And that part of the world, they've had stories about these kind of creatures forever. That's why they have all this artwork about them. Not only that, that is an exact replica. Like when, if you ever see the movie Moment of Contact, the James Fox movie, it's about an incident in Brazil in 1994, 96?

• 2:48:25Joe Rogan?

  Uh, the Varginha, Brazil incident where there was a crashed UFO. These police officers went to go and see this crash. There was some sort of electrical storm. And then they found this creature that seemed to have been injured from the craft. The guy picks it up, takes it in his car. They bring it to a hospital. The hospital refuses to treat it. They bring it to another hospital. That hospital, they don't know what happened with the records or what happened, but they do know that the guy who carried it physically died of a horrible bacterial infection that they could not cure. They said it smelled like sulfur and it had three fingers and three toes. It looked like that thing. It had a long head.

• 2:49:10Joe Rogan?

  And this, whatever this creature was that is, you know, mummified, it looks exactly like what these people were talking about from this UFO crash in Varginha, Brazil. Like it's a, it's the entire folklore of the town. They have a UFO when you enter into the town of Varginha. They have like this giant statue of a UFO.

• 2:49:32Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:49:32Joe Rogan?

  Like every, there's still people alive to this day that live in that town that will tell you the story. And you can go across town, you can go here. They all have the same story. There's multiple UFOs in the sky. One of them crashed. They found two creatures. One of them was alive. They think one of them was dead. This, whatever this crash site was, they bring in the movie moment, movie, excuse me, movie moment of contact. They bring this police officer to the site and he starts weeping. Like if that guy's, if he's a liar, he's the greatest actor of all time. The guy starts freaking out when he starts telling the story of what he found in the 1990s. Like brings him back to that moment. The women who saw the, the being, they're like in their 40s now. They were little girls when they saw it. And they all have the same story.

• 2:50:17Speaker 01

  And it matches.

• 2:50:18Joe Rogan?

  Three fingered, three toed, looked like that. Looked exactly like that.

• 2:50:23Speaker 01

  Man. If I wasn't doing the ancient history thing, I'd love to talk about this stuff as well.

• 2:50:29Joe Rogan?

  It might be the same thing.

• 2:50:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you never know, you never know. I'd love to like make you make some, you know, connection. But the thing is, I don't, I just don't want to give anyone more ammunition to come after me and shit like that.

• 2:50:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're coming after you, buddy. Don't worry about it.

• 2:50:42Speaker 01

  They're probably coming after me after today, yeah, for sure.

• 2:50:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're going to, after all the nonsense that we've talked. But it's fun to talk nonsense, and this is definitely fun nonsense, but that body's not nonsense. The Vargini thing, I don't think is nonsense either.

• 2:50:52Speaker 01

  It's weird if they match, the kind of stories from however long ago matched to the mummified bodies, that's, that's weird.

• 2:50:59Joe Rogan?

  Not just that, but biblical stories about creatures that are demons that smell like sulfur.

• 2:51:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:51:06Joe Rogan?

  Right? If you're terrified of something and you think you've decided that it's a demon, because it's actually an advanced life form from somewhere else, and it smells like sulfur, like whatever they have that got on this guy's skin that gave him this horrible bacterial infection, it's all documented. The guy died. He was a young, healthy soldier, and he's dead within like a couple of weeks.

• 2:51:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's not coincidental.

• 2:51:29Joe Rogan?

  They're giving him antibiotics. This is the 90s, this is not like the 1800s. You know, they're treating him with modern medicine, and he's fucked, and he dies.

• 2:51:37Speaker 01

  What the fuck?

• 2:51:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and this is the guy that was carrying the alien? Are you fucking kidding me?

• 2:51:42Speaker 01

  Mate, I need to look into this more.

• 2:51:43Joe Rogan?

  And it smells like sulfur, and it looks exactly like a thing that's a real thing?

• 2:51:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:51:48Joe Rogan?

  Where they have a real mummy of these things?

• 2:51:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:51:50Joe Rogan?

  See if you could just get an image, an artist's depiction, so they had these kids describe what they saw, and they drew this three-fingered, three-toed little, it was like almost like a purple-looking thing.

• 2:52:04Speaker 01

  Do you think that's linked in any way to all this kind of mysterious stone construction we find in South America that no one can really explain? And here we go.

• 2:52:13Joe Rogan?

  What is the image, the thing that was curled up in the ground? There's like a, yeah, that one, that, that one with the red eyes. No, yeah, that one, that's what it looked like. Somebody actually made a sculpture of that, what exactly what it looked like, and gave it to us. We have it at the mothership.

• 2:52:31Speaker 01

  The thing is, if it was an alien, why would it look so human, if that makes sense? Unless it came from this planet, I suppose.

• 2:52:36Joe Rogan?

  Right, but does it look human? Or maybe that's just like a con, that's a, maybe that's a constant. Thing when you evolve from primates. And maybe there's a thing about the alien gray too. That's always been like this archetype of what we eventually will become.

• 2:52:52Speaker 01

  What kind of like the big like skinny limbs.

• 2:52:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so this is how those guys described it. This is how they described what it looked like. Man, that looks an awful lot like that creature.

• 2:53:02Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 2:53:03Joe Rogan?

  The big eyes, the whole deal, the weird spindly body. That drawing weren't there where it's hunched over the one to the right of your cursor. Yeah, that's the one's my favorite because it's like, what is it 1996? Like, I don't know. I don't know what the hell that is. But what if it's real? And what if those things in Peru are exactly that thing? And what if, you know, this thing has visited human beings multiple times in history?

• 2:53:35Speaker 01

  So would you say it's from another planet and?

• 2:53:37Joe Rogan?

  Who knows, it might be from here.

• 2:53:39Speaker 01

  Well, just that's what I think because if it's got the kind of similar kind of like primate form.

• 2:53:44Joe Rogan?

  It might look if these things are they're finding these mummified remains in Peru. Clearly it was here. Why would we assume it's not from here?

• 2:53:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:53:53Joe Rogan?

  Like, maybe we just have a really inaccurate timeline of life on this planet. And maybe some things went undersea. Which sounds nuts, but then there's all these fucking videos of things coming out of the water.

• 2:54:06Speaker 01

  That's where I would hide if I it was trying to hide or.

• 2:54:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:10Speaker 01

  You know?

• 2:54:10Joe Rogan?

  I mean, if you've mastered gravity, the point where you create like a bubble around everything you are. And you travel through it without any resistance whatsoever. And they they've clocked things going underwater that are going like 500 knots underwater. You have no idea how it does that.

• 2:54:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, it's all kind of, um, it's like this into, I mean, you probably know more about this than me, but. My only exposure to the kind of UAP thing was traditionally through. I'm a big fan of Blink 182 and there's Tom DeLonge.

• 2:54:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I've had Tom DeLonge on.

• 2:54:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, you've had him on, you've had Travis on as well. You need to get, you need to get Mark on, he's the third.

• 2:54:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:42Speaker 01

  He's complete the set.

• 2:54:43Joe Rogan?

  I love Travis.

• 2:54:44Speaker 01

  I've always, I'm in a band.

• 2:54:45Joe Rogan?

  Not that I don't love Tom either, I just thought he was crazy. I thought he was crazy when I had him on before. And now I'm like, damn, I think he might be on to something.

• 2:54:52Speaker 01

  Well, he's so cool. He's always been a like an inspiration for me like I make music and he's been, you know, a big. You know, inspiration for me, but he always got me into, he kind of got me into the UAP thing from a while ago.

• 2:55:04Joe Rogan?

  He's all in. Yeah. He's all in, but I do have to say that if I wanted, if I was the government and I wanted to like, spread a bunch of crazy stories about UFOs, I'd tell them to people like Tom.

• 2:55:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess so, yeah.

• 2:55:16Joe Rogan?

  And I'd tell them to people like me. I mean, I think people do that on this podcast. I think some of the information that gets shared on this podcast is probably bullshit.

• 2:55:26Speaker 01

  To kind of like, you know, muddy the waters.

• 2:55:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and to prime people for disclosure.

• 2:55:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:55:33Joe Rogan?

  I think the, if I was in charge and if I had done the Hal Putoff thing, you know what the Hal Putoff was assigned to do?

• 2:55:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:55:42Joe Rogan?

  So they, they gave him a numerical, numerical value for all these different things that would be positively influenced by disclosure and negatively influenced. And you assign a value, one through 10, like what's gonna happen to religion, what's gonna happen to politics, what's banking, all that stuff. And this was during the Bush administration. So Bush essentially said to Hal Putoff, the Bush administration said, "We have been working on a crash retrieval program. We have vehicles that are not from this world. We are not alone. If we release this information to the general public and disclose it, what will be the negative impact? What will be the positive impact? Is it overall positive or is it overall negative?

• 2:56:27Joe Rogan?

  And everyone, they, there was a bunch of different independent people that they assigned this task to. Everyone came up with much more on the negative than on the positive, so they decided to not disclose it. This is Hal Putoff's story. I can't, I can't tell you if it's true or not.

• 2:56:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, but why do you think it was negative, be negative? Just because it's like the shock?

• 2:56:45Joe Rogan?

  The impact, yeah, the shock, the, the complete lack of any, um, real faith in authority figures.

• 2:56:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:56:54Joe Rogan?

  Like, why would you listen to the President of the United States when there's fucking UFOs reading your mind and traveling instantaneously here from wherever they're, they're from?

• 2:57:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:57:05Joe Rogan?

  Like, all of our systems of power and control, they all go away, because we don't, you're not in control anymore, clearly. The aliens are in control. People would worship the aliens.

• 2:57:15Speaker 01

  But do you, but do you think they're kind of like drip-feeding us and then at some point it would come out? But then isn't that gonna happen anyway?

• 2:57:21Joe Rogan?

  I don't think it's totally organized, because I think most things in the government are not totally organized.

• 2:57:27Speaker 01

  I guess so.

• 2:57:27Joe Rogan?

  I think there's a lot of Chaos going on at all levels of the government. I really believe that. And to think that in this top secret. UFO crash retrieval world, there's not a lot of chaos.

• 2:57:39Speaker 01

  Just humans.

• 2:57:40Joe Rogan?

  Chaos in everything. There's chaos in the FBI. They're having problems. The CIA has its own problems. Every organization has great people and a bunch of clowns. And a bunch of nutty people that don't want to lose their positions of power and these little struggles, inter-office bullshit. In every organization with human beings. So for sure, that's the same thing with UFO disclosure.

• 2:58:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:58:02Joe Rogan?

  And then, um, I think there's also the problem with if there really is a crash retrieval program and it's been going on for a long time. And it's been going on without congressional oversight. That means you've been lying and you've been misappropriating money and.

• 2:58:15Speaker 01

  Guys jail.

• 2:58:17Joe Rogan?

  And everybody's fucked.

• 2:58:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:58:18Joe Rogan?

  So what's the best way to like, you gotta slowly trickle out the information and you gotta mix it up with a whole lot of bullshit. Whole lot of nonsense and then fly some drones over people and see how they respond.

• 2:58:30Speaker 01

  I remember that thing. There's something recently about that, wasn't it?

• 2:58:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the New Jersey thing. Yeah, there's giant drones over New Jersey and then they try to find them with fighter jets. The lights would shut off and they'd take off.

• 2:58:41Speaker 01

  What was the, what, how did they?

• 2:58:42Joe Rogan?

  Who fucking knows?

• 2:58:44Speaker 01

  They just brush over that?

• 2:58:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they say, oh, it's ours. Like, they didn't even tell us exactly what was going on, but it was almost like a national emergency. It was a national story. It was. I remember Trump saying that he was not gonna go play golf in New Jersey because they were flying in New Jersey.

• 2:59:00Speaker 01

  Was this pre-election? Was this before he became president?

• 2:59:03Joe Rogan?

  I think.

• 2:59:05Speaker 01

  Was it Biden?

• 2:59:05Joe Rogan?

  I think it was during. Was it during? Yes. I think it was.

• 2:59:10Speaker 03

  December, January-ish.

• 2:59:12Joe Rogan?

  I think it was December.

• 2:59:15Joe Rogan?

  I don't think he was the president yet.

• 2:59:17Speaker 03

  No, he became president in January.

• 2:59:19Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right. But was it post-election? It was post-election, right?

• 2:59:23Speaker 03

  I actually can't remember, is Mike Ben saying that this has happened a couple of years in a row? And they were waiting for it to happen this year. It did, and then he also predicted it would just disappear a few weeks later, and it did.

• 2:59:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, what was that? Maybe it's just a grand show that they put on for us to distract us from some other stuff. Maybe there's some banking fucking decisions that were going on at that time that we would have probably paid attention to.

• 2:59:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like, look at the drones.

• 2:59:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, that's a real thing.

• 2:59:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 2:59:49Joe Rogan?

  I would do that if I had some drones.

• 2:59:51Speaker 01

  Or maybe...

• 2:59:52Joe Rogan?

  If I was trying to pull off some shenanigans.

• 2:59:54Speaker 01

  Couldn't it just be, you know, like, advanced weapons or technology that, you know, we have? Or, you know, your government has that could, uh...

• 3:00:04Joe Rogan?

  Most certainly.

• 3:00:05Speaker 01

  Because it doesn't have to be alien, just for it to be like more advanced than like the kind of public knows about?

• 3:00:10Joe Rogan?

  Most certainly. Yeah, most certainly. I would imagine that a lot of what we're dealing with is advanced American military craft. And probably done through some top-secret research that was real shady. Probably a lot of people spent a whole lot of money doing this stuff. And there's probably some, like, this is, the people that have gone to S4 and talked about it. You can't, it's all anecdotal, so you never really know if they're telling the truth. But there's been people that have no reason to lie that say that they have technology that is forty, fifty years past anything that you can imagine right now.

• 3:00:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:00:49Joe Rogan?

  And they already have it. And they've been spending shit piles of money, making the wildest things your mind can ever conceive of. And they already have it. And it probably looks super alien when they take it out.

• 3:01:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, why would they tell us what the most advanced thing they have is? They wouldn't, that's not going to be public information, is it?

• 3:01:08Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, exactly. So even current history is confusing.

• 3:01:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:01:16Joe Rogan?

  So the idea of you knowing exactly what happened 5,000 years ago, shut up bitch. You don't know. You definitely don't know if you find a 12 million year old wheel.

• 3:01:25Speaker 01

  Like 300 million year old.

• 3:01:28Speaker 01

  It's all too nuts. Yeah, exactly. We don't know what's going on now, so how could we know what's going on?

• 3:01:33Joe Rogan?

  So the wheel was 300 million years, but the cart tracks, the cart tracks are what, 12 million?

• 3:01:37Speaker 01

  I don't know. That's what this, that's what this guy says anyway.

• 3:01:39Joe Rogan?

  It's all fun. It's all fun and it's very interesting and I'm really glad you're out there because I have binge watched your show. You do a great job. It's really informative and interesting and speculative and fascinating because I just love the subject. And I think you just do a great job. So I hope you get a lot of views and you keep doing it. And I'm happy that you're doing it and I'm really happy that you came here.

• 3:02:02Speaker 01

  Thank you, Joe. I mean, it's been a great honor to be here, to be out in Austin. I've loved it. It's incredible. What an experience. And yeah, it's been really fun talking to you and I'm super appreciative of the opportunity. Yeah. So thanks so much.

• 3:02:14Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure. So tell everybody how to find you, um, social media stuff.

• 3:02:19Speaker 01

  Just put my name in. I'm, I'm Michael Button and I'm on YouTube, I guess, and they'll probably find me if I'm doing my job correctly. That's me on the screen.

• 3:02:26Joe Rogan?

  Michael Button one.

• 3:02:27Speaker 01

  Michael Button one. Yeah. There's someone else out there who's got my, my name.

• 3:02:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So don't go to Michael Button on YouTube. Go to Michael Button one. That seems so silly.

• 3:02:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Fuck the other Michael Button. Come to me.

• 3:02:37Joe Rogan?

  Maybe he's a nice guy.

• 3:02:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. He's got a cool name.

• 3:02:39Joe Rogan?

  He's got your name. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you, brother. Appreciate it. Thanks for being here. Bye, everybody.

• 3:03:34Speaker 04

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