#519: Synthesis: The Future of Childhood Education

Synthesis is an innovative new way for young students to learn critical thinking and problem solving skills. Pomp was so fascinated with the program that he invested. This episode is with Josh Dahn, Chrisman Frank, and Ana Lorena Fabrega. In this conversation, we discuss the challenges is legacy education, why critical thinking and problem solving is so important, how Josh started a school with Elon Musk, and what Synthesis is doing. ======================= Exodus is an absolute game changer in the crypto wallet space, and we’ve teamed up to offer an exclusive discount for you, as listeners of the podcast. Sign up for Exodus today using my promo code Exodus.com/pomp. This is a no brainer for both newcomers and crypto heavyweights - go sign up today. ======================= LMAX Digital is the leading institutional crypto currency exchange with current average daily columes of $2bn. Built on proven, trusted LMAX Group trading technology, LMAX Digital delivers a market-leading solution for trading and custodial services for the most liquid crypto currencies. Trading with all the largest institutions globally, LMAX Digital is a primary price discovery venue, streaming real-time market data to the industry’s leading indices and analytics platforms, enhancing the quality of market information available to investors and enabling a credible overview of the spot crypto currency market. Learn more at lmaxdigital.com/pomp ======================= Pomp writes a daily letter to over 140,000 investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy to understand language, while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://www.pompletter.com

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano, most of you know me as Pomp, you're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there, let's kick this thing off. Synthesis is an innovative new way for young students to learn critical thinking and problem solving skills. I was so fascinated with the program that I invested. This episode is with Josh Dawn, Chrisman Frank, and Ana Lorena Fabriga. In this conversation, we discuss the challenges with legacy education, why critical thinking and problem solving is so important, how Josh started a school with Elon Musk, and what Synthesis is doing. I really enjoyed this conversation with the team at Synthesis, and I think you will as well.

• 0:44Anthony Pompliano?

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• 1:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Visit exodus.com for your free download, or search Exodus on the App Store or the Play Store. Again, exodus.com for your free download, or search Exodus on the App Store or the Play Store. Exodus, leading the world out of the traditional financial system by building beautiful and user-friendly blockchain products. Go check them out at exodus.com today. Next up is LMAX. LMAX Digital is the leading institutional cryptocurrency exchange, which offers clients a regulated, transparent, and secure trading environment. With an average of $2 billion traded per day, LMAX Digital counts all of the largest global crypto-trading institutions as its clients. Leveraging the LMAX Group's proven low-latency technology

• 2:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Liquidity relationships, LMAX Digital offers the market leading solution for crypto trading and custodial services. As a primary price discovery venue, LMAX Digital provides streaming, real-time market data to the industry's leading indices and analytics platforms, enhancing the quality of market information available to investors. LMAX Digital is the leader. If you want to trade like an institution with LMAX Digital, you can learn more at LMAXdigital.com/pomp or click on the link in the description. Again, that's LMAXdigital.com/pomp. The leading institutional cryptocurrency exchange. They take no retail investors, only institutional

• 2:52Anthony Pompliano?

  clients. LMAXdigital.com/pomp. Go check it out today. Lastly, don't forget that I write a daily letter to over 145,000 investors about business technology and finance. I break down complex topics into easy to understand language while sharing my personal opinion on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at pompletter.com. Again, pompletter.com. All right, let's get into this episode with the team at Synthesis. I hope you enjoy this one.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano is a partner at Morgan Creek Digital. All opinions expressed by Pomp or his guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Morgan Creek Digital or Morgan Creek Capital Management. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:55Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, guys. Bang, bang. I've got a special treat for you. Today I have most of, if not all of the Synthesis team here. I've invested in this business because I fundamentally believe in what they are doing and I wanted them to come on and really talk about the problem with education in America today and then what they've built to start solving this. And so I will have them each introduce themselves as they start to talk, but maybe we'll start with Josh. If you can kind of introduce yourself a little bit and then give us some background in terms of your involvement with Astra and what that is and kind of how you got into wanting to build an education company.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Sure, yeah. 2014 Elon Musk approached me to start a school for his kids and a few others at SpaceX. So that school became AdAstra School and I ran that school for six years. And that school spun off and is now AstroNova. So I'm the executive director and founder of that school. And then Synthesis was basically like the class that I taught at AdAstra and continue to teach at AstroNova, which was like collaborative problem solving, like bringing kids together to like work through difficult problems and sort of like learn those tough lessons along the way. So, uh, so yeah, so then I, you know, met Chris. And when I was doing a project at, uh, with ClassDojo, trying to bring like good questions to kids around the world.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  And we just started talking about like what else could be scaled through AdAstra and that became, that became Synthesis.

• 5:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Very cool. And then Chrisman, maybe you can introduce yourself and then explain when you first saw AdAstra and the course that our class has now become Synthesis, kind of what did you see? Why did it stick out to you? And why did you want to go work on it?

• 5:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So my name's Chrisman Frank. I'm the co-founder and CEO. Before, before starting Synthesis with Josh, I was, uh, I was at ClassDojo, as you mentioned, which is a, this massive messaging app for K through five teachers and families. It's got 51 million users worldwide. I was the first engineer there. And my, my kind of, uh, thing I was really excited about was using that network to distribute better ideas, right? Like right now, you have to, if you want to get good ideas into classrooms, you need to go sell them school by school, principal by principal, or district by district. And it's just a terrible process. And, you know, we can all kind of see the results in the schools. So, uh, the CEO there and I, uh, we went down to visit AdAstra.

• 6:25Speaker 03

  And actually by this point, I was kind of, I was kind of burned out on seeing schools. I felt like I'd kind of seen everything. I'd seen all the fancy schools in the Bay Area and like a lot of other places in the country. I've seen top public schools, top private schools. And, you know, honestly, like just nothing was, uh, nothing was strictly innovative or impressive. So, you know, going down to visit Elon's school, you know, that was just what I knew at the time. I was just like not expecting much, um, but then we met Josh for dinner like the night before and he Josh is just like so intense. Like we had dinner from like six to like six twenty eight and then he was like off like to get back to work. And I was like, that was like my first inkling like, all right, this, this might be a little different.

• 7:06Speaker 03

  Um, and so, yeah, we went to the school and it was, uh, it was just unlike anything I'd ever seen like it, you know, blew me away. It's kind of like, you know, maybe what people would imagine from like a project that Elon's involved with, like everything was, uh, everything was different. And, uh, mine was just like spinning from everything I saw and then when I was touring there. And then the moment that really stuck with me was we were out for like recess slash lunch. And I was just hanging out with some of the teachers and, uh, and there were these kids that were like, they were still inside and they were around a table. Just like shouting at each other, but shouting these like really complex sounding arguments. And I was like, what, what is going on in there? And one of the teachers was like, oh yeah, that's a, it's, it's a synthesis week.

• 7:47Speaker 03

  Like, you know, the, the kids get pretty obsessed with synthesis. I was like, what, what is this? Cause this sounds, they're sounding like they're having the kind of conversations that we have at work, like in a tech startup. Like what is going on here? And she kind of explained, you know, it's like these games and they're, they're on teams. So they're collaborating within their team, but then they're competing against the other teams and the kids just like go nuts and they get really engaged with this. And, you know, pretty much from that moment, like I was hooked, like I was just like, I need, my son was only two at the time, but I was like, I need him to do this. Cause I think if he gets out in the world and he comes up against people that are trained this way, like he doesn't stand a chance. So how, how do I get him in here? And Josh was like, you know, you can get a job as a rocket engineer at SpaceX.

• 8:30Speaker 03

  And then you've got like, you know, maybe a one in a hundred chance of getting your kid in here. Um, and then that was kind of like all my options at the time. So we sort of, over the next couple of years, you know, just, uh, Josh and I got to be friends and just talked a bunch more, worked on some stuff at Class Dojo. And, uh, eventually, you know, decided the time was right and it was, uh, the right thing to do to try and open this up and get it to, you know, accessible to more people.

• 8:54Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. Before we get to Anna and kind of the start of synthesis, Josh, explain a little bit more about what was the impetus for Elon to want to start a school? And what was the thought process as you started it with him? Were there certain mandates or directives? How did you come up with the curriculum? What were the types of teachers that you put into that school to kind of make it different or fit the need that Elon and yourself had identified?

• 9:17Speaker 02

  Sure. I mean, I think just most simply, he wanted a better school for his kids. You know, I think it was just really that. And, you know, for regardless of what type of school your kids are going to, if you feel like your kids aren't being served, I mean, not many people have the ability to just like ask them whether they want to start a school. And for me, it was like a dream come true. It's like, well, yeah, of course, right? He invited me to come to SpaceX and was like, have you ever been here before? And I was like, well, no. He's like, all right, let me just let me walk you around. And, you know, I tried not to ask a stupid question, although like, I don't know anything about rockets. And we sat down and basically like, what do you think about the school that they're at? And I told him what I thought. And he's like, you know, what about? What do you think about just like starting, like starting, you know, our own school? I was like, yeah, like where do I sign up basically?

• 10:01Speaker 02

  So he said, you know, why don't you take some time to think about it? And then like at four in the morning, I wrote him an email. I was like, all right, I'm in like totally ready to go. This is like what needs to happen. And, and I didn't hear from him for like three months, maybe two or three months. Like, I think it was like maybe mid-November and I didn't hear back until like mid-January. So in that amount of time, I'd kind of convinced myself that I had like hallucinated the whole thing. And, you know, you know, kind of like an opportunity missed. And then, you know, I was like, oh, you know, hey, I got super busy. Just, uh, yeah, like, let's definitely do this. I'll, you know, let's figure out like the next steps. So really, in terms of like guidance, it was just like, make it great, you know, like first principles approach, like what are the things that are going to be most like meaningful to kids? What kind of experiences do they need to have?

• 10:44Speaker 02

  And then how can we, you know, like, just, like, we're not trying to get accredited. We're not trying to like build a program that, you know, can really be scaled at the time. It was just like, make this a really great experience for the kids that are part of it. And then for me, it was always I mean, I did Teach for America, so I taught in Lowndes Public Schools for my first four years of education. And, you know, public schools, I mean, there's the challenges the public schools face are like, are pretty unbelievable, right? And whether or not the schools are as good as they can be, I think we always say like, no, they're not. But, but my harshest criticism was actually for like, the private schools. Because those schools are not needing to follow the mandates of the state, or having to sort of make all these compromises at scale. Like, these schools are these like, lush, beautiful campuses

• 11:28Speaker 02

  with like, largely affluent kids, who are not, you know, I don't know, the experiences they're having are like, not that interesting. Like, they're just, their classes aren't that fascinating, like, the challenges, problems they're working on, aren't that compelling. So for me, it was like, well, how could I design really engaging, challenging problems, and give those to students at a really young age, and then allow them to make the mistakes that they're inevitably going to make? Like, that's sort of the purpose of school. Like, kids that are roughly the same age, who are like, learning these tough lessons. But it felt like to me that, you can't learn lessons if you're doing worksheets, you can't learn lessons if you're doing like, static, unchanging stuff. So, Synthesis started really as like, kind of like ethical quandaries. So, I, I mean, ethical, just like quandaries, really.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  So, I don't know, like, so here's the Department of Veterans Affairs, here's their budget, here are the different ways that you could spend that money, like, how would you allocate the money and like, make a justification for why? Just like, simple stuff like that. And then, you know, building like, simulations, basically, where you could, like, look at the effects of gerrymandering, or the effects of redlining, or, you know, you could have, you know, like, figure out like, how NASA should allocate its budget. So it started in that sort of way. And conundrums, this thing with Class Dojo, was more of like, an outgrowth of those, the choices between seemingly equivalent options. And then Synthesis evolved to be more like, games, basically, like, experiences that were like, really well-designed, that provoked conflict between the teams. But they're all working towards

• 12:53Speaker 02

  collaborative goals as well. So, so that's kind of like, where I started going, as I was leading the school, and then I knew that I would need to teach classes, because we were always so lean. And Elon insisted, and rightfully so, on interviewing anyone that would work for the school. So you could imagine... You know, he has essentially one standard and that is like the ultimate standard. Like, could this person work for me at SpaceX or Tesla or Boring Company or Neuralink or whatever else? So, you know, it was difficult to get more teachers, more administrators in the school. So we had to, you know, always run it lean and I think that's right. And in doing so, you know, brought in like just some really talented people. But for me, it always felt like if you're going to have someone like at that time, Chris, and but many other educators and people who are like coming to AdAstra, hoping to see something different,

• 13:38Speaker 02

  that it was like imperative that I show them that something that I had built or someone at the school had built that I could convey a different type of educational experience, like kind of the possibility of what it could be. And the thing that's just been so exciting about building the company of Synthesis is to be able to see things I designed in Illustrator, like PDFs, like essentially like really intricate like board games or, you know, or simulations that have just relied on, you know, Google Sheets to see those things brought to life through software. Like, that's the thing that to me is like most powerful. Is we would play this elaborate simulation over eight weeks and then it would come to an end and never to be used again. And now like that same simulation could be condensed into a shorter amount of time and you can play it and like learn the lessons from it over and over again. And that's like, it just kind of blows my mind, to be honest.

• 14:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Absolutely. And Anna, so maybe introduce yourself and kind of talk a little bit about, as you come from more of a traditional teaching background, kind of the issues that you'd seen with many young kids who didn't have the AdAstra experience and kind of what was the frustrating part for you on that front?

• 14:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I'm Anna Fabrega. I'm a former elementary school teacher. I left the classroom about a year and a half ago for the same reasons that Josh has been talking about and the things that Elon noticed that were wrong with the system. Like, I think a lot of people are now aware that we're still following a very outdated system. And well, my biggest concern was that I was very excited to teach kids, challenge them creatively and teach them how to be innovative and how to really learn the skills that they're going to be using in the real world. And, you know, you quickly realize when you're teaching that you're not using or spending kids' time in the most meaningful ways. Like, kids are capable of doing so many things and they're very hungry. And they wanna learn, um but we just cram them with all this work that's very meaningless.

• 15:24Speaker 04

  And we're just, you know, so for so many hours with them in school. And we're really not training them for the kind of future that that they wanna live and the kinds of jobs that they wanna have. Um in the future and they talk about this. So um I I just grew very discontent and I quickly realized that I was gonna be able. You know, I wasn't gonna be able to do a lot within this system. So I left and I turned to the internet. Um and I started sort of writing online and building my audience and connecting with um different people in the alternative education space. That were um working on different learning opportunities and things that look different. And what I quickly noticed was that most of the people that I spoke to that were innovating. In education were really just um making slight iterations to the old system, right?

• 16:06Speaker 04

  They were either trying to make classrooms more take enabled, or they would create an app or something that. Um they would claim that it's more, you know, to help kids learn, but really they're more teacher enabled tools. And they're not really tools that are helping kids learn. So the outcomes are pretty much the same. You're just sort of adding things. To um you know, the same old structure. And to me, that's not really fixing the core problem, which is that kids don't understand the purpose. Of why they're going to school, the things that they're learning, they're not engaged and they're really not being, you know, they're not doing meaningful things in school. And all this innovation wasn't really fixing that. Um until I spoke to Chrisman. Um when he was still working at ClassDota and then he started telling me about synthesis.

• 16:48Speaker 04

  And it sounded to be to be true, but when I joined one of their beta testing sessions, that's when I really saw the magic. Um and you know, the kids were just engaged in ways that I had never seen kids, you know, you know, raving about their learning in that way. Um and I realized that the reason why it was so effective was because of the way that they had, you know, that Josh has had thought through how he wanted to create. This school, right? So when he he talks about how when he was talking to Elon, like they really, instead of doing what most of the people try to innovate do, which is. Okay, what can we add? Let's, you know, continue grabbing what's already been done and making it a little bit better. They were like, no. Let's just rethink education from first principles, which. Essentially means like, you know, going back to like the fundamental truths.

• 17:32Speaker 04

  What do we know is true about how kids learn? Like really focusing on that, what do we know about the kinds of jobs that they're going to have in the future? What kind of skills can we help them develop since they're young? For the creator economy, for like all these things, right? So they really focused on that. And that's why they created, you know, the learning experiences that Josh designs. I've never seen anything like that. And it's because they're, they're just designed um for the kids. And, and thinking of like, like Josh explains, like with all these sprinkles of complexity that he wants the kids to be solving. And it's, it really, like you can see the relevance to the real world and the kids can understand why they're doing the things that they're doing. And that's just really magical. Um, and that's what hooked me.

• 18:14Speaker 04

  So I decided to um join and, and we're, we're building this um with the kids, right? And with the feedback of the families that we have and not really like looking at what other people are doing or basing off the things that have always been done, right? We just want to do something that, you know, that works. So that's sort of.

• 18:31Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. And, and so when I look at kind of the team you guys have assembled, it's a very unique uh kind of set of experiences of uh skill sets. Chris, maybe describe a little bit, just when you think of the product, how exactly does the product work? And what is kind of the, the child's experience in the product, right? We heard kind of Josh's perspective as to where the original idea for a synthesis like course came from um and an experience in person, Anna's explaining, you know, kind of what the problem is. But how does this specific product work?

• 19:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, so you know, the promise that we make to parents is, you know, we will, we'll, we'll make your child a world-class problem solver. Right? So the analogy I use a lot is uh, is like I have my kids in jujitsu. They, they just, they really like wrestling each other, the two boys. They go to jujitsu, I know they're, they'll learn how to, you know, stand up to bullying or, you know, something like that. I can see them like building this skill and it kind of compounds over time. Um, and I think, you know, when I go back to like what I, what I witnessed at Ad Astra, that's what, that's like what my, my feeling was like. Kids who go through this. They will be world-class at solving problems as a team, which is the world's most valuable skill. So that's kind of the promise that we make. Get your kid in Synthesis.

• 19:48Speaker 03

  That's what's going to happen. The way we do it right now is we're starting with like an enrichment program. So it's just, it's one-hour-a-week sessions. They're led by a facilitator. You've got like fifteen, sixteen kids per group. And what they do is, not to give too much away for the first class, because we have been keeping this kind of a secret, but hopefully the kids won't listen to this. But what we do is we're just like, say, hey, this is, welcome to Synthesis. This is unlike any experience you've had in school or anything education-related. What you're going to learn to do here is become a world-class problem solver. So you can build, you know, we want you to build cool things. We want you to make the world better. Build flying cars, build jet packs, you know, give us clean energy.

• 20:32Speaker 03

  Like, you're going to work your way up to doing these kind of things. And the way you're going to do it is the way, the way it's going to be done in the world is no one's going to be able to really tell you the rules or like how it works or tell you if you have the right answer or even if there is a right answer. So that's what we're going to do here through these problems we're going to give you. And then we'll just go, the hands will go up and they'll be like, what are we going to do exactly? And we're like, you know, they're not going to tell you that. And they'll ask a couple other questions and we'll just say like, you know, we're not going to tell you. And then we'll put them in breakout rooms. They'll get their team there and they'll have like a screen that like lays out a problem. And you know, the first ones kind of, they look a lot like video games. And they've kind of just got to discuss, like analyze, strategize, figure out, you

• 21:16Speaker 03

  know, what they're going to do. And then, and then the game starts and it's just, you know, try to win. And then after the game, we do like a debrief. So we talk about, you know, what you've learned, what you figured out, what kind of course corrections you want to make, and then go back and do it again. And, you know, the idea is that the games get, sorry, one sec.

• 21:43Speaker 03

  The idea is that the games get more complex. We're gonna have to do a little edit there. But the idea is like, as you master one level of the games, they get more complex. So the games get more complex and your competition levels up as well. So if you remember for like the science fiction novel Ender's Game, like this is how they train kids to fend off an alien invasion. Because that competition and like novelty, when you just keep doing that, you you develop like problem solving skills in general and the competition sharpens you and just drives you to a higher level than you could get on your own. So yeah, that's the, that's, that's kind of the core of it.

• 22:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Gosh, explain a little bit why it's so important to go through this experience with kind of peers or other kids. Why not just have it as kind of a single player type experience, but I'd rather have it as a multiplayer experience?

• 22:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a great question. Just like, just having to navigate the dynamics of a team. And I think, you know, it's just, I just, I just came from a class at AstroNova of synthesis. And it's just so interesting, like the way that like roles are defined in a team. Like, so, so one of the things that we do, you know, there's like the synthesis experience has, you know, the cohort is broken into like, you know, maybe four teams of four, five teams of three, or whatever that is. And those teams like will compete against one another, but it's not like cutthroat. It's just like a way to kind of like, you know, measure yourself relative to one another. But then we do these cohort wide challenges where you all work together as a class and try to accomplish like a specific goal. In this specific example, they're playing a game called Art for All where they're like needing to curate like different works of art and put

• 23:21Speaker 02

  them together by harmony and take them to different cities for attendance and profit. And all this, all this, all these different dynamics. But what's so interesting when kids have to collaborate is that like, you know, by default, some kids are basically not speaking. They don't feel comfortable participating in like a traditional way, especially in a Zoom room. And there are others that de facto just sort of assume responsibility. They've not been elected. They just sort of decide that they are, like they are the ones to take control. And I just felt like in most collabora, like at least my experience in school, it's like a group project was like a nightmare. Because you were either the kid that was like doing all the work or you're the kid that was like, well, I was the kid that was always doing all the work and I resented the kids that weren't doing any of it. And sometimes, I guess, as things got more complicated, some classes, I was a kid like didn't know how to participate

• 24:02Speaker 02

  and felt like maybe lost. And I think we've all like, we can all, we all remember like what that feels like. So for me, like, there was just never a moment for someone to be able to like support me and becoming like a more valuable member of a team to add like real value. Or to like kind of question the assumptions that were made within the group of like, oh, I'm in control because like I'm loudest, basically, or I'm like most aggressive or whatever that may be. So for me, like the collaborative piece was always like the greatest challenge to unravel was like how to make sure that your team operates efficaciously. So like, you know, yeah, there's like the context of the game, whether it's art or you're like, you know, studying on like these like fishing routes and like a, and like an Arctic where like the ice is melting. Like there's all this complexity that people think is just part of the game design, which it is.

• 24:45Speaker 02

  But the real complexity is like navigating the dynamics of a team. And like knowing that like regardless of whatever I designed that like that's going to actually be like the most difficult part and the part that's like most enduring. So for me, the games, you know, we're not, I guess we are kind of like a game studio at this point because we're just creating so many because that generative piece is so important to our like soul. Like we must always be learning lessons and incorporating those into the next experiences we design. But like, you don't need a remarkably elaborate game to bring out like the collaborative elements, competitive elements. There's like tough moments that you can just like hit pause or, or look at the video in reflection and say like, hey, like what's going on here? Like, why, why do you not think that you accomplished your goal? Like, what, what role did you play within this team? And are you playing the same role over and over again?

• 25:30Speaker 02

  Is it because you want to play that role or someone assigned you that role? Or, you know, you, you just didn't feel like there's any other role that you could play? So it's just that, that meta piece of like really thinking about how you feel in a team, what you are contributing or not able to contribute. And then like, how can we remove those barriers so that you can sort of be your, you know, to flourish as, as a, as a contributor? So it felt, it always felt like to me that you can't do that over a poster project. Or you can't do that over, you know, some project where you have kids that are totally different levels of ability. You need to create something that is. Novel and complex that engages them in a common mission, but the games themselves should be really welcoming. So that it's funny, like really welcoming games because I hate instructions.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  And yet ones that build in complexity so that even like, you know, not even especially adults who were to play would be sort of would marvel at the fact that younger students can handle this so well. Like I confidently believe that our strongest synthesis cohorts would be nearly any collection of adults in these games, at least to start. And that is not necessarily because they're, you know, they have less experience or less wise, but because their team just operates more effectively, they communicate better. They're more honest about what they know and what they don't know. Where all the ego of adults and all the, you know, the jostling for positioning makes the team less effective. So what if kids had that experience now, like what if they could have that experience in school?

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Like to learn how to be like an unbelievable problem solver, like that's kind of the promise of synthesis.

• 27:02Anthony Pompliano?

  So it's absolutely fascinating to me and Anna, maybe you can talk a little bit about, you know, when the kids go into those breakout rooms, what is the conversation like? Like, are they kind of as, as Josh is alluding to here, are they able to communicate well? Are they, you know, struggling with maybe concepts they don't understand? Just what has been your experience in those breakout rooms as to the conversation?

• 27:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I actually want to mention two things. So first to answer your question, one of the things that I find really unique about synthesis is the way that it helps kids find their unique voice. And this is something that, you know, as a teacher, and I taught in many different schools and attended to many different schools, you don't see like there's little opportunity for kids to really like, you know, give their opinion or, you know, share really what they're thinking or question things. Because it's really not a safe environment, although we claim that they are like, not really like, how embarrassing is it to say the wrong thing in front of all your peers or then getting that marked down? But in synthesis, what I've noticed is that, you know, we really help kids develop and find their unique voice. Because the simulations are set up in a way that students get to.

• 28:11Speaker 04

  You know, experience sometimes being the leader, but sometimes understand that they don't always have to be the leader, right? But they do need to understand how top level decisions are made, right? So kids in synthesis, what you notice is that they get to contribute to consequential decision making, but in a way that feels authentic to them, right? So sometimes they're leading, sometimes they're disagreeing, sometimes, you know, they're like Josh was talking about like the different roles. But we're really, but you know, you sometimes see at the beginning, kids that are not, you know, they're not used to speaking so much or having to sort of like take the lead. Um, and then suddenly they see like, oh my gosh, and they now I, you know, this is part of, this is expected for me. Like this is how I'm going to help my team win. And you see them come out of their shell.

• 28:52Speaker 04

  Then you have the kids who are, you know, very talkative and you can tell that these are the kids that in, you know, in the school, they're the ones like leading. And what Josh was saying, like sort of like dominating the team. And so, and here they start to learn, you know, they started to take a step down and be like, sometimes my ideas are not the best ideas. You know, maybe I should listen to my other teammates, um, and, and see, cause they come up with, you know, a, a better strategy. Um, so it has been fascinating, especially as kids, you know, you, you perhaps don't see this in the first session, but as kids go from one session to the other, you start to see them evolve, whether it is taking a seat, you know, a step back or sort of like jumping in. And that has been incredible. And then the other thing I wanted to mention was, um, one of the most unique things about synthesis that again, I hadn't seen

• 29:33Speaker 04

  anywhere in any other learning experience is the way that we engage students. So a lot of the problem in education is that we're going through an engagement crisis. Um, you know, kids, you, you know, teachers don't even know what to do anymore to get kids to pay attention. And that's because again, the whole system is, you know, designed in a way that, that prevents learning, right? Um, and what ends up happening is that traditionally teachers add points or, you know, they give extrinsic rewards or, and they think that this is going to work, but it doesn't, it may work in the short term. It doesn't really work in the long term and the kids are really not learning. But in synthesis, and Josh, I would love for you to talk, um, perhaps a little bit more about this.

• 30:12Speaker 04

  The way that we engage kids is by actually making things complex and making things unpredictable and pushing kids to a certain extent to be vulnerable in the simulations. And what I mean by that is, like, we understand that kids, you know, in school, a lot of what happens is we water things down. We make things easier or more predictable to sort of, because it's more manageable, right? It's easier to grade and it's easier. We think that, you know, kids are just kids. That, there are two problems with that. Like, that's not the real world, right? Our real world is very complex and very unpredictable. So we're sort of like doing a de-service by sort of watering things down and making them less complex. But also, when you make things like that, it becomes boring, right? And what we've noticed in Synthesis is that kids not only can handle complexity, but they crave it.

• 30:56Speaker 04

  So they actually, yes, at first they may be a little bit thrown off when we put them in the games and we're like, figure things out, or, you know, things get more challenging, but then that's sort of like what, what makes them want to come back, right? And that brings down, like, when, when I say we push them to be vulnerable, it's because we put kids in a way, they don't have all the answers. So when they put their guard down, they're able to connect more with the different kids that they're meeting from different countries and all. So it's just really different, right? Like, you know, a lot of educators don't think that that's sort of like the magic pill to make kids like want to learn and want to come back by making things challenging and complex and unpredictable. So I don't know if Josh, you wanted to like talk about that, but I just think that's genius, that's fascinating, and it works really well.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, you want, you want kids to like feel, like you want to like to feel what it's like to solve a difficult problem. You want to like feel what it's like to like experience scarcity, right? Like scarcity and like whether it's on the map or like understanding what that is. And, and an understanding game theory, not because you read about it, but because you like are living it in the choices that you are making. And I think what, what Anna mentioned about, like, in, because of the scoring, right? And scoring is important, not because like we're always looking for the highest score, but because like you can see how you've done relative to other teams. And the lesson that I love most is like to help students understand that because they won in this instance, does not mean that they had a winning strategy over time.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  Right? There are like all of these things that I think the students are needing to like, at least in synthesis, I see them unlearning and learning in like a more like authentic, genuine way because they know that, yeah, maybe like things kind of fell their way, but that strategy over time will probably not be successful. Or a strategy that is the dominant strategy for that moment might not be the overall dominant strategy and other teams will see what they've done and emulated and then they need to figure something else out. And then I think the final piece, which has been mentioned before is like students as collaborators. There's just such arrogance sometimes in education about like, what, you know, what, I don't know, we're gonna like put all this stuff together and then just like basically give it to kids. And synthesis came from my early days of teaching fifth grade, thirty-three kids in East Las Vegas, like during the recession. And I basically just felt like I

• 33:03Speaker 02

  can't like sell this stuff to kids. Like, I can't like tell you that this worksheet matters, really. I can't really tell you that this is gonna make a material difference in your life. And it just, I think then, because I just, I identify as like a someone who like likes to create things or like try to come up with solutions, I just started generating more and more of what I would create. Because at the very least, even if it was flawed, it's like I like put time and effort into this and I like structured the problems in such a way that I think will be engaging and enriching and like worthwhile, basically. And, you know, there's nothing more worthwhile than giving students a meaningful experience and then giving them the space to reflect on that experience and to talk about it and make sense of it. Because sense-making is the most important thing. Like, making sense of the world for all of us is the

• 33:45Speaker 02

  most important thing. We need educational experiences that allow that to happen. And that's like what synthesis is meant to be.

• 33:52Anthony Pompliano?

  I am, uh, I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. I absolutely think that you guys are on to something here. Chris, man, obviously, the, uh, the kids don't get to make these decisions, right? In terms of, uh, they don't have credit cards, they're not, uh, going and signing up, uh, in most cases. Um, they're, they may hear about it from a friend, but ultimately, the parent has to, uh, to make the decision. And so, talk a little bit about, uh, maybe the types of parents that seem to be drawn to this versus the types of parents who, uh, who, who just, you know, aren't as bought into, uh, to the idea of, uh, non-traditional education, if you will. Uh, but then also, what are the things that parents care about? Or what are the things that they're evaluating, the, uh, the, the program on in terms of, uh, once they actually do start to put their kid

• 34:35Anthony Pompliano?

  through it, uh, are they expecting overnight, you know, for there to be improvement? Is it something that they, they kind of buy into and they believe they need to be a big part of? Do they just trust you, uh, and the software and the program to, to be successful? Just, what have you seen from the parent's side?

• 34:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. Let's, you know, the number one thing that we see that the parents have in common is just like dissatisfaction with the way things are done. Like if I say, you know, school is broken or, you know, it's, it's completely, school's just disconnected from the world. Like what Josh said, this worksheet is not gonna make any difference in your life. The parents, you know, that, that's the one thing like every parent at Synthesis has in common is they, they are not willing to just kind of trust their child's future to the school, whether it's public school or like an elite private school. There's something, there's something that's, that they feel like is missing.

• 35:32Speaker 03

  Within, then, then to get to the second part of your question, like how, kind of like how involved are the parents? Definitely it, it varies. We've started doing this thing now where we run, we run the simulations for the parents. It's probably like the best, the best kind of like marketing, sales technique we could do. Cause some, some parents that like, they're skeptical, right? They hear like, okay, Josh built this school at SpaceX. Like it sounds really great, like games, but like, are the kids actually learning? Are you just playing video games? Like I, I don't get it. And that, like having them do one of the simulations has like a hundred percent conversion rate, right? Like they get in there and they're just like baffled. And it's, you know, it's this completely like complex thing, like they, they don't get it. And they, and they start trying to make sense of it with their group.

• 36:16Speaker 03

  And then, you know, they, they, they'll win or they'll lose, but they'll, they'll, they will see kind of like the reality of the experience. Like, like what Josh said, it's like there's, we are, we are teaching like some knowledge about the world. Like we teach these like mental models, like these concepts that come up across, across domains, right? But it's not, it's not like you're reading it out of a book, like you're living it. And then we're giving you like tools to make sense of your experience. And so like when parents experience that, they're like, oh, wow. So it's not everybody that, that's joined one of those sessions yet, right? Like some parents really want to get involved. They want to be talking to their kids about it. They want like, they want us to recommend books that they can read to like, you know, apply to the scenarios.

• 37:00Speaker 03

  Kids are facing in their sessions and then some are just like, you know, they they let their kids do it for like an hour a week and they just kind of completely trust it to us. So there's no real pattern there, but I would say the main, you know, the thing everyone has in common is they're they're just dissatisfied with school primarily because of the you know, the idea that two things really, one, it's irrelevant and two, you know, the the speed limit, if you're like bored or unchallenged at school, like they feel like synthesis is, you know, we we've you know, had a lot of uh interests from like the gifted community because they they want things that are just going to push their kids as much as possible.

• 37:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it seems like there's a a pretty significant correlation between uh, you know, hey, school is uh boring or monotonous in some sense, also adults uh and kind of a traditional corporate America job may feel the same way, right? And uh sure, it's different information, it might be different uh tasks, but uh you could easily see if you take somebody from that corporate America job that uh is very monotonous and and boring in nature and you put them into one of these environments, it essentially just works mental muscles that they don't work on a daily basis, right? And so uh you could very quickly see uh where they kind of wake up and say, wow, this is different. This is something that, you know, I don't, I don't even get

• 38:14Anthony Pompliano?

  um as as a professional. And so of course I want my child to have this and um I I've got to ask and any of the three of you can answer, but have you guys put uh adults into the simulation with kids and had uh either the adults win or lose, but but has there been a uh comparison yet?

• 38:32Speaker 02

  Adults lose every time. I've done it. Yeah, I did it hard for all.

• 38:35Speaker 03

  Berkeley thing, right?

• 38:36Speaker 02

  And did it with, I did it, yeah, we did it at AstroNova. We had AstroNova kids play with Berkeley engineering graduate students and uh it was humbling to the students for sure, to the the Berkeley students, that is, I mean, just in that, you know, there's

• 38:52Speaker 02

  You're like overwhelmed at the speed of it, right? And it's like, you know, it's, it's kind of amazing. Like so, design the games that have like components of the fast and the slow. But when they're fast, they're really fast. Like you're managing four different auction styles of different works of art that are happening simultaneously and have to decide which of these works of art is most harmonious with your collection? Which of these works of art, based on like their market for the cities that you want to go to, makes the most sense for your like overall trajectory as a team? And if you are expecting kind of like a, you know, all right, we're getting in teams. We're going to just kind of collaborate on this problem. You know, we're going to talk through which of these 20 items will help us survive, you know, our plane crash in the desert. Is it the mirror or the parachute or, you know, that kind of stuff? It's just a totally different world.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  And uh, it's, you know, it's just, it's amazing also to see. Yeah, it's really cool. It's really cool also to see students like the confidence, right? The confidence of like, I can work on this, like I can like, I can make headway on this challenge and this problem. And I'm not like so concerned about winning. I'm just concerned about like refining the choices that I'm making and like becoming like a better decision maker. And then also like helping to understand that like, I'm like measuring my own value within a team. It's like the decisions and things I'm adding, like how well are those things actually turning out? That, that type of thing is, I mean, that's what makes us so excited to unleash these students over time of synthesis onto the world. Because we all wish that we had more of that time as kids.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  If we, I mean, as adults, it's like, there's nothing better than working on like a highly functioning team with people that are like committed and dedicated to what they're working on. SpaceX's success is not, I mean, everyone is committed to going to Mars, right? Like that's why everyone is aligned in that way. So, um, so yeah.

• 40:36Anthony Pompliano?

  What you just reminded me of as you were talking about kind of the speed is uh, I grew up on Nintendo 64 and I'd play like the 007 game. And basically it had the speed it had, right? Now it's us was just the speed of video games. And then I remember watching one of my younger brothers years later play uh, Call of Duty and literally it's like 10x the speed. And I remember I picked up the uh, the, the console sticks and I was just like, there's no way I could play this game, right? Like the speed at which he was. Processing information, etc. And so, you know, not quite the the advantageous benefit of of education, but still that that speed really does matter. And so I guess, you know, Anna and Chris, as you guys think about this, like, what is the hope in terms of what these children end up going and doing?

• 41:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, is it a failure if they end up just being a middle manager at, you know, accountant somewhere? Is the expectation that they're going to go on to be entrepreneurs and engineers? How do you guys just think about, you know, this is a starting point, obviously, for a child from an education and kind of professional sense? If you look at it that way, like, what's the expectation of them as they grow?

• 41:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think there's, you know, it's it's important not to have such strict expectations for what kids are going to do. They're gonna, you know, they're gonna hopefully find find something to do that matches up with their personality. But there there is like a certain sort of skill in just getting getting what you want out of life, right? It's it's about solving problems and, you know, primarily, it's about, you know, learning how to think rigorously and learning how to communicate and collaborate with other people. We think with other people. And it's that's kind of like the base, like, the idea here is, you know, solving complex problems as a team, that is the world's most valuable skill. That's that's what makes Elon the wealthiest man and he's

• 42:27Speaker 03

  got him all these fans because people realize that skill is what moves civilization forward as well. And so, to the extent that there's some general ability to get better at problem solving, we want to cultivate that and make your child as skilled there as possible. And then who knows what what they're gonna do? Like, they could start an organic farm, they could, you know, they could they could build us, you know, the space suit that that people will be wearing on Mars, like, whatever. That's gonna get to like, specific knowledge, they're gonna go in their own direction, and you can't really influence that. But but the core idea is like, there is some skill of being able to solve complex problems with a team. And we want them to get as as much

• 43:11Speaker 03

  Of that skill as possible. I always use the kind of analogy like there aren't world-class musicians who start in their twenties. But that's, you know, when it comes to like innovation, that's people mostly don't start on anything like that until they're in their twenties. They're done with college. Like, what if you start kids thinking that way at like age seven? And they get this kind of rigorous program from age seven to fourteen. Now they're at fourteen, they've got the base that, you know, very few thirty-five or forty-year-olds have. Now what are they gonna do? They're gonna build on top of that and do things that we can't imagine. That's what I'm really excited about. I just, I just wanna see. So I do think these, the kids I've seen go through it for a length of time. Like it, it like rewires the brain. And if we can get to that at, at a certain scale, like that'd be pretty amazing.

• 43:57Speaker 04

  Absolutely. And ju- just to add to that, um, so we say that we're like training kids to be better problem solvers and, and decision makers. And I think that the, the decision-making part, it's such an important component of what synthesis does. So in, you know, life is all about making decisions, right? You either make good decisions or you make bad decisions. Um, and that's why we talk a lot about like mental models, which is like a way to, um, help have this like frames of reference for difficult moments and to make better decisions and wiser decisions. Kids don't really learn this in school, right? The decisions that kids make in school are very like school setting oriented and, and very simple and just, you know, not transferable to real life. So even if, you know, we have all kinds of different kids, right?

• 44:39Speaker 04

  And synthesis, some of them are gonna go ahead and create amazing things. And those tend to be the ones that are really obsessed with synthesis. And they go the extra mile and the session finishes and they wanna do the intensives, which is like this new thing we're launching for kids that are really into it. Um, and perhaps those are gonna be like the innovators and the ones who, you know, create amazing things. But then we also have other kids that are there, um, and they're benefiting from learning, again, this mental models, this new ways of thinking, from having the opportunity to, again, like find their voice, um, play different roles in, in learning. And what I've noticed, um, from, from talking to a few of the students that, um, a few months ago was That they um they're finding that learning can be enjoyable, right?

• 45:19Speaker 04

  Um. So many of them join thinking, okay, so this is a science class or a space class. Some of them say, because they hear this from parents. Others go, okay, um, this is a game. Um. But then by session two or three, they realize, wait, this this seems like a game. But this is not like a video game. Like, there's definitely something here where I'm like, you know, there's more than that. And they realize that they're learning, but they're learning in a fun way. Um. And I think that that's so powerful, because that's what kids have mostly lost in school settings, in traditional school settings. So getting them excited to learn um and and to play different roles. And again, like, you know, find what's their best role in a team and all these things. That's really exciting, even if they don't go ahead and, you know, turn into innovators in the future. Right? Um. So that's something very special that I've noticed.

• 46:04Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. Josh, you uh you've, out of all of us, spent the most time with Elon Musk. What do you see in uh in the um kind of teaching of the actual curriculum? Uh, and in the games uh that most mimics kind of what goes on at SpaceX uh and the way that Elon thinks?

• 46:24Speaker 02

  I just think you just need like really flexible, flexibly minded people that are have like a great grounding and like what what is the problem you're trying to solve? And what are, you know, what are like the steps to get there? And what are the course corrections you're going to make along the way? Um. As things are inevitably going to go awry or going like different than you originally imagined. So I think like for me, it's just so many problems I feel like we give students are linear. Like, it's just, you know, it's just inputs and then outputs and then or it's like a teacher in history who is there at best doing the synthesizing of reading much of primary source documents and like reading a bunch of like different authors and perspectives, and then kind of giving you what amounts to some version of the truth through their eyes or through, you know, through their mouth, literally.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  Um. For me, it's like, like I, we like purposely leave, you know, pieces of the game unfinished, right? Like we like you could, you know, one of the challenges in a game like Art for All is like when you're trying to put together works of art that have harmony. How like, what's the way that we like, you know, organize these works of art? And like, there's like code that like students can find that can like help them better understand how like you could do harmony really well. It's just like one way that you could approach the problem. So it's like, there's always a kind of this mystery to synthesis, because Ultimately, like the student themselves is responsible along with their team to try to figure out how it works. And when you don't start with an instruction manual or like some long kind of like onboarding process and you just throw them into it and say like, your goal here is just to figure out as much as possible like how this works.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  And what's so interesting is like regardless of how old the students are, the same things will happen like they will have, they will see something and they will just assume that that thing will just endlessly happen. Right? Rather than trying to prove something like that is demonstrably like not true. They are just looking for evidence that like things are going to go that way. And if they don't, it's like, oh, that must be like a glitch or something else. So I mean, one of the things I think is actually really unique too is like rather than spend like a year designing a simulation, like for some of our leading cohorts, they like are beta testing, like we are like working on this game together. We are making changes like hourly. And we are just like trying to try new configurations. And part of that is that students design their own maps, right? They design their own decks of cards for a game like Art for All where they're putting together like, you know, collections of art.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  So if you really believe in students as collaborators, get back to your original question, like that every single person has a role to play at SpaceX. Like every single person has a role to play at Synthesis. And that role is like all in like sort of this big, high-minded idea that like we need more efficacious and ethical problem solvers and we're going to give you real experiences of doing that now. And, uh, and you as a student, as a nine-year-old can design a map that will be used by thousands of students that will help them better understand network effect. Or like you could put together a collection of like of art and put it into a deck that could be used to help students like truly figure out like what harmony is as it relates to the game, which is like one of the most complicated things to figure out.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  So I just love when we think of things that are just like preset, structured, linear, like that there's just that openness. With like one really ambitious goal. And I feel like SpaceX and the other companies are that way.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  You know, you're trying to like truly change the world and you know, whether or not we get there or not, I think we're showing how, you know, time can be spent in super meaningful ways. Uh, but it only can happen if students are part of that process.

• 49:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Anna, if you were to talk to a parent and ask you from a kind of a teacher's perspective, why should they put their child into the program or into the synthesis class?

• 50:03Speaker 04

  Well, my first answer is they're going to be learning the things that they're not learning in school, right? And guaranteed that their time is being used in meaningful ways. And it's interesting, I speak to lots of parents. And you know, you have all kinds of parents. You have the parents that are more of a traditional mindset. And the first thing that they ask you is like, well, how do I know what my kid is learning? Like, where do I see are their grades? How can I measure the progress? And like, this questions you automatically, like, you immediately know that the parent's coming from, and you can't blame them, right? Like, that's how they've been, that's how they were educated, right? But that doesn't really matter here. Like, what we, you know, what I usually, like, well, we tell parents is like, to think

• 50:48Speaker 04

  about where their kids are at the beginning of synthesis, right? And then to think about how are they improving over time in the way that they reason through problems and how they synthesize concepts, right? And we tell them, like, you as a parent are such an important part of this, because, you know, we're evolving with you, right? We're evolving, and we're preparing these learning experiences that are so unique and so different, that's hard to explain them in words, right? And that's actually a good problem to have, right? Because that means that we're not doing anything like that's been created already. But it's really like having them, and I like how Josh explains how it's sort of like, synthesis is sort of like that multivitamin that's missing in a lot of kids' education. So although we are an enrichment program now, like, really, the, but by coming to this program

• 51:33Speaker 04

  and joining this community, that's really what we call it, because it is a community, it has like so many different aspects to it, it's not just like that one hour course. And going through it over the weeks and over the months and over the years, like, your child just starts to think differently, and they start to make decisions differently. And they sort of consider things that they wouldn't otherwise consider. And it's amazing, because you, again, you don't expect kids To be able to make these decisions and analyze things the way that they do. But the reason why we think that is because we don't give them the opportunity in in school settings. Right. But here we're we're like, we trust that. We trust that they can do it. We know that that they're going to be able to rise to the occasion. And they do like they do. They always end surprising you. So for parents that are like worried like, okay, session three, like, where's the learning?

• 52:16Speaker 04

  It's like, wait, you need to, you know, you need to be patient and see the progress. It's more like a an overall way of thinking that that's different. And you you feel that shift in the kids who take it seriously and who keep coming back and believe in what we're doing.

• 52:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Chris, man, how do you think about the proof points that it's working and parents want this? I'm privy to obviously all of the data, but I don't know what you want to share kind of publicly in terms of how it's going and and why you believe that parents want this.

• 52:47Speaker 03

  Do you mean proof points in terms of like, what are the what are the kids learning? Or proof points is like, like backup, like, hey, synthesis is going to work and there's gonna, there's.

• 52:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Or the latter, the latter.

• 53:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, Josh, Josh already told us that the kids are going to learn. Anna confirmed it. Now, now explain why this is working as a business.

• 53:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, it goes like the the first thing. I I sort of thought before we started that.

• 53:20Speaker 03

  You know, this this sort of mysterious story of like Elon starting the secret lab school at SpaceX and in doing this, you know, as Josh mentioned, people from all over the world came to that school. I hadn't really realized when I went down to visit there, but it was there was like a there was like a discord server with like a couple thousand people on it that were just dedicated to like trying to dissect like what Josh is doing at the school and like spread, spread that to their schools. So I knew there was a kind of a tremendous amount of energy behind doing something different. And and I knew the story, the backstory would capture people's attention. But I always, Josh and I always talked about this, like in the really early days. I heard Seinfeld, Seinfeld still does stand up, right?

• 54:04Speaker 03

  And another comedian was asking him like. You know, isn't do people just laugh at whatever you say because you're Seinfeld? And he was like, no, you get one joke. He's like, they will laugh at my first joke. And then if I'm not funny, I'll bomb just like any other comic. And so I thought like, you know, the backstory would be like, that's like our first joke, right? Like we get, we will get, people give us a chance like one time. Um, and then, and then that'll wear off. Um, but yeah, it's been, I guess we launched our first beta uh test like in August. And then I, I don't know the number off the top of my head. I think like 80% of those kids are like still, still with us like six, seven months later. Um, and our, since we launched the subscription, their, you know, retention's like even, even better.

• 54:47Speaker 03

  It's like 85, like 90% are still with us after three months. And the ones that have canceled is primarily like they say, like a scheduling thing, like they had some, you know, schedule change, but they want to come back. Um, so yeah, it's been this, uh, you know, we're starting to see their friend referrals. Like most of our customers now are coming from referrals of people who are already, already are in it. And that's despite it being, you know, it's a fairly like high price, like premium thing right now. Um, which is my intention, we kind of, the growth has been sort of insane. We've kind of had to, the way to limit the growth is like, start with a high price point. And uh, just try to make like a really great experience for those people. And then, you know, we'll eventually create kind of like pricing tiers so we can be accessible to more people because we don't, you know, it's not, uh, we,

• 55:33Speaker 03

  we, we, we want to reach every kid with this, right? Like, I think ultimately that's, that's the goal is like every child to be able to experience some version of synthesis. I think that that's like the way to really change the world. Um, but yeah, so, so far like, uh, yeah, people seem to love it. Kids seem to love it and uh, you know, the, the parents are happy with the changes.

• 55:53Anthony Pompliano?

  You gotta, you gotta be careful with the pricing. And I always joke that college is the only business I know where there's a line out the door. And when they raise prices somehow the line gets longer. Uh, and uh, I, I, I always laugh at that one. Awesome guys. Listen, thank you guys so much for doing this. I, I am obviously a huge fan. It is a no brainer, pretty much everyone who I think listens to this podcast, they've heard me talk about it before. Uh, education is. Broken and I think that kind of the root memorization and frankly, just the the lack of creativity, critical thinking and problem solving skills that are taught to children is a massive problem. So the work you guys are doing is going right after that. And I highly suggest everyone who's listening, if you have a kid, what probably ages six through like 13, 14 years old.

• 56:39Speaker 03

  So we're admitting age eight now is kind of like the the low end. So it's eight to 14 right now, but if you're, you know, six or seven, then go ahead and and apply because we'll be opening up, you know, cohorts for the younger kids soon.

• 56:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so if you're in those age groups, you have kids that are in that age group, go ahead and go apply. Where can people go? Just synthesis.com?

• 57:02Speaker 03

  Synthesis.is

• 57:04Anthony Pompliano?

  .is? All right, I was gonna say, if you guys got the .com, I feel like that one would have been pricey.

• 57:10Speaker 03

  That one would be pricey, yeah.

• 57:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Awesome. Well, listen, thank you guys so much for taking the time to do this. I hope that everyone learned a lot from it and hopefully people will go check out synthesis.

• 57:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, thank you.

• 57:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Thank you so much.

• 57:23Speaker 04

  Thank you.