JRE MMA Show #181 with Justin Gaethje & Trevor Wittman

Joe is joined by UFC Lightweight Champion Justin Gaethje & boxing and MMA trainer Trevor Wittman. https://www.youtube.com/@justin_gaethje https://onxsports.com/ Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan onX Offroad: Try onX Offroad for 50% off- go to https://onXmaps.com/joerogan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Train my day, Joe Rogan Podcast my night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Gentlemen, first of all, thank you for being here. I couldn't wait to talk to you. Congratulations on one of the most epic accomplishments in the history of combat sports, and that's not an understatement. I mean, it might be an understatement. I mean, it's not an overstatement. It's perfect. That was one of the greatest nights I've ever experienced of watching anything in my life. It was amazing. And to have you cap it off and win the title when you're facing a guy that everybody thought was at least number two pound for pound, it was like him and Islam were number one and number two, and some odds had you at six to one, which I thought was very disrespectful. I thought, I thought like, this is crazy. Like, six to one's crazy. Like, Ilya is really good, but so is Justin.

• 0:57Joe Rogan?

  This is kind of nuts. Like, to have you win the way you won in front of the fucking White House?

• 1:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05Joe Rogan?

  How's it feel?

• 1:07Speaker 03

  You know, it's really not real yet. I was expecting to have like, an internal sense of relief that like, I don't have something to chase, because I was always chasing this belt. And I was expecting to wake up with like, some kind of natural release of pressure, but I don't know, I don't feel that. As the days go by, every day, I feel a little bit more, a little bit more. Two days ago, my dad was like, you know, what is, what was it like waking up being the champion? And I like, I was like, I haven't even thought about that. And then I was, you know, on the shitter, like, 10 minutes later, and I was sitting there thinking about it, I was like, wow, I'm the fucking champion. Like, it's fucking crazy.

• 1:50Speaker 03

  And yeah, it's just, I mean, I've just been on the grind for so many years now. My dad dropped me off 19 years ago in Colorado. I knew nobody to wrestle, and yeah, to see, to see where I'm at now is just absolutely incredible. I mean, there's really no way to explain how or why, you know, or like, why I deserve it, or why, I mean... I worked my ass off. I have made mistakes. You know, I've done things the wrong way, but I've always corrected and got back on the path. And, you know, I think the, the coaches, the mentors, but mostly the coaches that I've been, you know, the team that I have around me is, is a huge reason why I was able to stay on track and, and just keep, keep moving forward

• 2:33Speaker 03

  and keep trusting that, you know, I, I belong in, in the top of the league.

• 2:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, you, you've clearly shown it throughout your career and having a great coach like Trevor, and one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you in Trevor is because you guys have a very unique relationship. First of all, I love the YouTube series, The Art of Violence, fantastic. And what's great is watching you two guys work together and Trevor, you being like very acutely aware of when to pull him back, when to ramp it up, when to push. Like you're, you guys, having a relationship like that is so critical because you guys know each other so well. You've seen him perform so many times. You've seen him fight and perform in the gym that you know where he's at all the time. And having that sense of where your fighter is at any given time in camp

• 3:25Joe Rogan?

  because you know him so well, boy, that's a giant advantage. It is. Well, hold on.

• 3:33Speaker 04

  Testes, testes.

• 3:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think that's a huge advantage is, is knowing your athlete and, you know, I've been doing this for a long period of time, but there's lots of coaches out there that consider their fighters their friends. I do consider him one of my best friends, but I, I put myself more in like a father position of I need to know when to tell him the truth. And I've got myself in trouble with that, with fighters where you tell them the truth so hard that you have to let them go like a child. Like, hey, if we're not on the same beliefs, go live life and see how it is. And then when you return, I'm still going to love you. Having that type of thing where I have to be dead honest for your career, not because it, it helps us now and it feels good right now at the moment. I have to look at that from, from the time that we start, we talk about, you know, what are his goals? And

• 4:21Speaker 04

  then my job is to...

• 4:25Speaker 04

  Be an advisor, be a mentor to get him to that place as best as I can because these are his goals and I want to support those. And in the beginning of his career, his goals were to be the, the, the most violent guy out there, the most remembered, the guy that every time someone bought a, a ticket, they remember Justin Gaethje selling that show. And then it turned into, no, I want to have this belt. And that was hard because we did go and not get the belt twice. And you, you know, it's so cool to be in the kind of those scenarios where it's like, damn, you had two opportunities. Now it's never going to happen. And that's what life is. Life is one of those things that you keep getting up and chase your goals. You never know how it's going to happen. And yes, you want to dream and you want to have a, a, you want to have a plan. But I'll

• 5:10Speaker 04

  tell you right now, through all the, the times that I've had championship fighters in business and, and, and life, the plans never work. You always have to adjust them. But it's that dream and that vision to get you to the top of the stairs, you have to get up each one of those steps. So, you know, Justin went out there and wrote a story that I don't think will ever be forgotten. And he did it one round at a time. And that's what impresses me because his mindset, I love the mental game. I love to, to talk about the mental game, even like Ilya. Ilya is a special guy with how he uses his mental, the secret, the, the, if I see it, I believe it, it'll happen.

• 5:45Speaker 04

  To a point, you know, it's like, I always tell people, like, if you want, if you go down the ice cream aisle and you're like, hey, I don't know what ice cream I want, you're going to stand there and go, oh, that one looks good, that one looks good, that one looks good. The people that are like, I want mint chocolate chip. You get in there, you get it done, you grab that mint chocolate chip and you walk out. Very similar to Ilya's last three fights. He went out there and he, he, he demanded what he wanted. His confidence got him through that. But it makes it very hard when you get that stale, nasty, rotten milk fucking mint chocolate chip. You start to go, oh shit, what is going to happen now? So I think, uh, the relationship that we have is me guiding him, me pulling him back at the Strickland situation. Hey, let's pull back a little bit. Let's, let's focus on what's going on. I don't want no distractions. And having someone, and he

• 6:28Speaker 04

  trusts that I care about him. I, I love him to death. I love his family. Like, our relationship is so strong and I need that with my athletes. And, uh, I'm just blessed and One hundred, you know, I say honored, but more importantly, humbled by someone who I've never worked mental with, who shows me different ways to the mental game of fighting, which I feel I'm very high level with, is it's something that if you put yourself around people that make you better, this guy makes me better daily and I'm very grateful for that.

• 6:59Speaker 05

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• 7:59Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by The Mosquito Bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat, where the stakes were life and death. Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights, and starring Nicholas Galitzine, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, in theaters October 30th. This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact.

• 8:43Joe Rogan?

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• 9:25Joe Rogan?

  They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friend something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only. You said something about Ilya, about the fight, about having expectations. And you said you don't have any expectations when you fight that way. You don't, you don't get thrown off.

• 10:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's huge. I mean, my expectations come from my hard work. Obviously, I expect my body to perform. Um, I understand that I've trained my mind to, and, you know, maybe the narcissistic tendencies in me love showing off and performing in front of, you know, thousands of people on that stage. That's, um, that's what I love the most about, about this, and that's what, my personality, like, I'm very competitive. I want to win. Um, but I'm never going to lie to myself, and that's how I, I've, I've never had a coach in my entire career, since four years old of wrestling,

• 10:50Speaker 03

  have to pull me aside and talk about the mental aspect of competition, because it's always been so natural to me. I'm not sure if...

• 11:01Speaker 03

  I'm not sure if it's because they they see that I'm doing good and that they agree with my approach mentally, or they don't, they don't understand what's going on, or but I've just always been so comfortable and so content with my situation of you know, this is a competition, it's a game. You know, I'm very competitive, I'm very petty, I take everything personal. And, yeah, when I go in there with ex, I have gone in with expectations. Um, and it's I said it before the fight, you know, Ili, like I said so many true things to him, and I think it was such a it's such an asset to tell someone the brutal truth. Especially someone like him, because it pushes him farther away from the truth.

• 11:47Speaker 03

  You know, even if I tell him the, the exact truth and exactly what's gonna happen, and, you know, you're making a mistake by having all these expectations, and when we go to round two, and when we go to round three, and it's not going as you predicted it, or wanted it to, or expected it to, then where do you go from there? And, you know, I said that exact thing to him, and then that pushed him farther away from it, and you know, I-

• 12:08Joe Rogan?

  It's almost like he wanted to prove you wrong.

• 12:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, he wanted to prove, he wanted to prove himself right. You know, and he was unwilling to be open to opinions and because obviously I don't know him, he knows him better than himself, but, you know, I, uh I got here because I am coachable. I got here because I listen, I use every every, like I, I posted yesterday, every person, place, or thing that has happened to me or for me has ultimately molded my mind and my body to be able to deal with the situation that happened on Sunday night, and you know, I can, I can pull so much experience from the past, my losses, my wins, um, setbacks, failures, accomplishments, I mean, there is so much to learn from, you know, every day is a learning experience. And I

• 12:55Speaker 03

  constantly try to learn and be better, and I don't know why I'm able to perform like that, I think, um, I just think it's who I am. You know, when I, when I say I wanted to be the most exciting fighter ever, it's not that I wanted to be the most exciting fighter ever. The, the thought of that was fucking cool to me. You know, but I was just being me. And, um, I've been blessed to be able to, you know, through my, through my childhood, through coming from a small town, through having, um, you know- Unwavering support from my, my family and my friends and my coaches and my teachers.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  And everybody from, you know, it's just crazy to, to be able to come out on top. I mean, it's just crazy.

• 13:43Joe Rogan?

  One of the things I think was a giant factor in the fight is that you have been in wars. You've been in a bunch of wars.

• 13:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:51Joe Rogan?

  And Ilya really, it only had some rough moments against Jai Herbert. You know, Yusuf Zalal gave him some problems, but it was nothing serious. The, the wars that you've been in, these just down and dirty brawls that you've been in. You, you're comfortable with the back and forth. You're comfortable with enduring. You, you know that you're not going to break. You know, if your body holds up, you're going to keep fighting and you can endure. I don't think he'd ever experienced that before. So when you didn't break in the second round. And I think he made a mistake and I think you're correct about that. You said he made a mistake by going to the ground.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 14:31Joe Rogan?

  And then he hurt you to the body.

• 14:32Speaker 03

  I told Trevor yesterday, I think, you know, um, him hurting to my body was the reason, one of the main reasons I won. You know, when he, when he hit me, when I dropped, it wasn't the first time he hit me in the body. That was probably like the fourth or fifth one. And he had landed some really clean shots and he could probably sense that I was in trouble and hurt. And I think that fact made him dump everything because it was his last chance to take me out. And he almost did take me out. But when I went down, in hindsight, it's always easy to make these decisions in hindsight. But when I went down, you know, he would, he's had way more, more submissions than he has knockouts.

• 15:13Speaker 03

  And so for him not to have that belief that he's going to be able to go down there, especially with the Khabib fight, especially with the Charles Alver fight. Especially with all the negativity around my grappling there, you know, I think he would have been foolish not to, because I would have stood back up. I would have stood back up and he would have charged forward, tried to finish me. I would have jumped on his legs. I would have pulled guard. He was going to end up on top of me no matter what. I wasn't going to sit there and trade with him again. Like, I would have, you know, front rolled into, into grappling situations or whatever. I would have made him cover me. And, but I think me getting hit is what made him. Completely blows, you know, Shane Carwin-esque. Blow his tank.

• 15:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 03

  And, you know, go for the win. And I think that was the choice he had to make because it was gonna continue to get worse. I beat his ass in the first round. Like, it might have been close on the scorecards. I absolutely took the first round, but the amount of damage that I inflicted in the first round, set up the rest of the fight.

• 16:08Speaker 04

  I, I do think it was a mistake. And, and, and you're, you're saying, what you're saying is so correct. But what I'm saying is from a standpoint of him demanding it, he's gonna finish you in the first two. Understanding the damage that he was taking. He took big risks. He got in there. He kept his hands on your collarbones. He was landing really good shots. He had the, the, the, two body shots before that, that left hook to the liver. That, the sound it made was crazy. That last one was clean. It was precise and deep. But you could tell it was already there. But if he didn't put that pressure on his self, and this is what I mean by mistake, is like, when you come out, you have to know that you're going five rounds. And he knew that he had to unleash everything right there. If, if, he would have been smart in that scenario saying, hey, we got five rounds.

• 16:52Speaker 04

  Let me step back a little bit. Let me do some damage. But also, he's like, hey, let me get you out of there quick. Justin, you know, can't grapple, can't do all these things what a lot of people think, which Justin's a great grappler. And what was so smart about you is when you get tired, that's where the worst decisions happen. That's one of my big things is coaching. As we get someone tired and then we make them make bad decisions and then, then we capitalize on that, on those mistakes. Justin was able to stay so composed here with being speared to the body. And when you take a liver shot, it is way different than the headshot. A headshot's like taking a shot with your buddies at the bar. It's like, hey, let's go, you know, but you take a body shot?

• 17:30Speaker 04

  You're dying. Like, your liver shot, you feel like you're dying. And Justin, all the decisions he made on the ground, from the triangle, from the arm bar, from not being flat. So many good decisions were made in that scenario. And I do think it was a mistake. Obviously, there's so many different ways it could go, but those, those type of moments in fights are what make fights great, is overcoming obstacles. And he had set that up. He had said it, he's like, hey, I'm gonna overcome anything. I'm going out there, they put the worst thing out there, like what are you gonna do to me? I've already been knocked out the last second of a freaking huge fight by Max. Like you can't do nothing worse to me. And that mindset, I think is, uh, you know, something to take away for all the fighters out there. That always, I love how you say it. Expect a war, always.

• 18:14Speaker 04

  Some of the biggest mistakes that I've made with fighters that I had is allowing them to think that they're gonna go through this fight easy. And then that fight becomes super hard. You think it's gonna be a war, then you're like, hey, it wasn't as bad as I was expecting, even if it was a little bit of a war.

• 18:26Speaker 03

  They're not gonna help him in that moment.

• 18:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  There's no pulling him out.

• 18:28Speaker 04

  That's fighting. Fighting, like, fighting is, is mentality. I look at this, like, there's techniques out there and there's things like that. What makes this sport inspirational and makes someone that wanna go out there and beat cancer because they were inspired by a fighter? It's not the technical piece. It's getting back up. And it's okay to get knocked down. I love, I love watching people get knocked down, cuz my favorite part is seeing how they get up. And that, to me, is why I love fighting. Is how people get up.

• 18:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, how they endure. And that was the big story of that second round, that you figured out a way to get through it. And the change in tempo in the third round was very obvious. Because the sprint that you have to make, like what Ilya did when he was trying to finish you, that, he, he used so much fucking energy. And the great Chael Sonnen once said that if you try to win by knockout and fail, you won't win by submission.

• 19:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:19Joe Rogan?

  A lot of times, that's the case, because you know, as good as anybody, if you fucking sprint it hard, you wail in the bag with fucking everything you got for two minutes, and then they go time, one minute's not enough. It's not enough.

• 19:34Speaker 03

  Even in preparation.

• 19:35Speaker 04

  Even two minutes. They were still tired after fifteen minutes.

• 19:38Joe Rogan?

  That was crazy too. That was crazy too. We'll talk about that.

• 19:41Speaker 03

  Preparation for these fights, like, I'm doing twenty, thirty, forty second sprints at most. I mean, that was... That was a two-minute sprint for him.

• 19:51Joe Rogan?

  Yes. But full out, full out, full power, everything full power, every punch full power.

• 19:57Speaker 03

  You can't even train for that.

• 19:58Speaker 04

  Can't. You gotta have spots.

• 19:59Joe Rogan?

  Right. And he didn't. He was just unloading. I mean, that's a young man with a tremendous amount of confidence because he's a two-division world champion and he thinks he's gonna go down as the greatest of all time. And hey, he might still.

• 20:11Speaker 04

  He still could.

• 20:12Joe Rogan?

  He might still. What is he, 28?

• 20:14Speaker 03

  The odds, the odds are fucking great against that right now.

• 20:18Joe Rogan?

  Because of that loss?

• 20:19Speaker 04

  I hope he does.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  I hope he does too. I hope he does, and I know that he has the skill.

• 20:23Speaker 04

  But.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  I know that he has the skill to be a champion again. However, I, same thing with Tony Ferguson. I didn't break Tony Ferguson's confidence. I changed the perception of his opponents of him. And that is a huge factor when you go in there, like, who are you fighting? What are you, you know, before this, he was a guy that would, that you couldn't get through, that you couldn't push through, you couldn't survive with. And once I showed people that all you gotta do is get through that, then nobody's ever gonna go in there with thinking that he's unbeatable now. You know, and that, that was his, that was his identity. And,

• 21:05Speaker 03

  you know, that's gonna be such a tough task for him to fight people that aren't scared of him.

• 21:11Joe Rogan?

  That's interesting. That's Mike Tyson in his prime. That's Anderson Silva in his prime, where the fight was lost before he even got in there.

• 21:18Speaker 03

  Bronderous.

• 21:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. The fight was lost before he got, even got in there. Um, physically, uh, now I don't know what the truth is, but all these reports are that he has two fractured orbitals and a broken nose. Um, just that alone, just the orbitals alone, like, anytime you've got eye injuries, like, anything severe with your eyes, long-term consequences vary, you know.

• 21:42Speaker 03

  It's psychological.

• 21:43Joe Rogan?

  Absolutely.

• 21:44Speaker 04

  And physical.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  Your body heals.

• 21:45Speaker 04

  And physical.

• 21:45Speaker 03

  The body is resilient.

• 21:47Speaker 04

  I'm telling you.

• 21:48Speaker 03

  Broken bones make stronger bones. Like, that is, his, his, his, his orbital bones will be stronger.

• 21:54Speaker 04

  It depends on where, though, Justin. The orbital bone, I had my orbital broken. And for six months, I'd do this, and my tooth would move. And it's right where my sinus cavity is. You remember when you hit me with the spinning elbow?

• 22:05Speaker 03

  Your tooth would move when you push on your cheek?

• 22:07Speaker 04

  Right here. And my tooth would move.

• 22:09Joe Rogan?

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• 22:48Joe Rogan?

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• 23:05Speaker 04

  I still feel the soft spot, but this is a very weak area where your sinus cavity is. That's a, and you, you broke both orbitals and the nose?

• 23:12Joe Rogan?

  Dude, you ever seen Marab's nose? You ever seen the x-ray of Marab's nose?

• 23:17Speaker 03

  No.

• 23:19Speaker 04

  Did I send it to you? It looks like a spine.

• 23:21Joe Rogan?

  Dude.

• 23:22Speaker 04

  He's got 33 vertebrae on his nose.

• 23:24Joe Rogan?

  It's literally fucking crazy.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  I've had three broken noses. I've had it fixed twice.

• 23:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know you had it fixed. You know, this is one, there it is. That's, that's Marab's nose.

• 23:36Speaker 03

  Oh my God.

• 23:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh my God. I mean, that's.

• 23:41Speaker 04

  That looks like a long cocaine binge right there. Took out the whole fucking left side of his nose.

• 23:45Joe Rogan?

  That looks like you got hit with a sledgehammer.

• 23:47Speaker 04

  That's crazy.

• 23:48Joe Rogan?

  That nose is crazy.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  That is crazy.

• 23:50Joe Rogan?

  That is like, and to fix it, he's gonna have to have no contact for like a year.

• 23:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's hard.

• 23:55Joe Rogan?

  And so he's not gonna fix it. He's just gonna deal. Look how turned it is. I mean, that, the bone.

• 24:00Speaker 03

  I've had my eyes fixed and my nose fixed and my nose was better for, for quality of life.

• 24:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the nose is a big thing.

• 24:08Speaker 03

  Obviously being able to see was huge, but when your nose is broken, like you have to understand, like getting a haircut fucking sucks. You can't breathe through your nose, so your mouth's open the whole time. You're constantly breathing in fucking hair. Like, there's, there's so much.

• 24:21Speaker 04

  Beat at the dentist, and they ain't using the suckers, you're choking.

• 24:24Speaker 03

  Every time you eat food, like, you just, there's something missing.

• 24:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:28Speaker 03

  Uh, sleep, I wore a nose strip to bed for ten years now. You know, now I'm used to it.

• 24:33Speaker 04

  A permanent scab, because it peeled that thing off all the time?

• 24:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, my nose is used to it now, but, yeah, losing your nose is insane.

• 24:41Joe Rogan?

  Uh, wh- when you gotta fix, which fight, was it before the Max fight?

• 24:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, right before the Max fight.

• 24:46Joe Rogan?

  And then you could breathe out of it perfectly?

• 24:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:49Joe Rogan?

  Is it still good now?

• 24:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, he, he broke it, but he didn't break, he didn't fuck with the cartilage, he broke, he actually fractured the bone up top, so I didn't have to get it fixed.

• 24:57Joe Rogan?

  It's another factor that when we were talking about the fight, and, you know, people were talking about, um, this matchup with Ilya, I said, "You have to think about what he did to Fiziev. Fiziev is a super talented striker." And then you also have to think about the Max Holloway fight, because he was pressing in the first round, but he got caught with a jump spinning back kick to the fucking face. And when that was, that's a, that's a game changer. And it happened at the end of the first round, and from that, it changed the tone of the fight. Because it was just dead on, it was perfect.

• 25:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, and-

• 25:29Joe Rogan?

  Couldn't have landed any better, and it-

• 25:30Speaker 03

  The truth of the matter is, is psychologically, I was not, I was not there. I was not prepared mentally for the fight. When I fought Max Holloway, it was such a different circumstance, it was, you know, a guy that wasn't in my weight class, it was a guy that I'd never thought about fighting. Um, it was for fun. And that whole, the whole experience was so different than any other fight I've ever had, when it comes to, like, being mentally prepared for, for a fight.

• 25:58Joe Rogan?

  What do you attribute that to, like, what was it?

• 26:00Speaker 03

  Myself, my, my-

• 26:01Speaker 04

  And us, like, we took, we to, we told him to take the fight, he didn't want, he didn't want to take the fight, and then we told him that you're gonna keep the, the title contention fight, because that's what they promised us, that's why he was very in-

• 26:12Speaker 03

  Well, every one of you guys, every one of you was like, "Oh, something was different," and it was like, "Well, why didn't you guys fucking say something before the fight?"

• 26:17Speaker 04

  You told, you told me afterwards-

• 26:19Speaker 03

  They told me after the fight, like, "I knew something was different, but like, I needed to know."

• 26:22Speaker 04

  He tells me afterwards- He's like this, he's like, "I just didn't respect him," and I'm like, "How could you not respect Max?" And I didn't catch on to it, so it's like, I'm all- Always looking for flags and things like that and 100% I take 100% responsibility because that's how we learn. Everybody makes mistakes. I remember the Tony Ferguson fight. I didn't give any fucking water. You know, like there's like things that we all learn from, but the thing when he had told me that I'm like, how did I not catch that? Uh, from you because he's like, dude, he was a smaller guy, just didn't and, and I was like, dude, Max is like one of the guys that I look up to from the outside. Like he is talented.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  I remember thinking, what, what am I looking for? Like, what am I afraid of? I kept trying to convince myself that I needed to be, I needed to find what I was to be worried about and I couldn't find it.

• 27:05Joe Rogan?

  So you always need that before a fight?

• 27:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

• 27:09Speaker 04

  No matter who it is, you're fighting, you know?

• 27:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so like I was, I've never been as present and like, um,

• 27:17Speaker 03

  I've never been able to retain a fight and I, you know, before the knockout, I, I was there. Like I was, I was in the, I was in the, in the arena. I saw the lights. I saw the people. I heard the people. Like I've never been there in my life and I think that I can attribute that to me not being scared. And so me not, you know, me not being in a real fight or flight.

• 27:40Joe Rogan?

  Real life or death situation. So you weren't fully focused. You could actually hear the crowd.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just, well, I could, I could hear my thoughts, you know, I had thoughts. Never had thoughts in a fight because I'm so intuitive and reactionary. And that one was just so good. There was so much and so sure the kicks, the eye pokes. No, I think I was not. I couldn't have beat him that night with the mentality that I had. And that was my last lesson to learn. I, I had made my less, you know, my lessons with, um, Olivera was like, I wanted it so much. I wanted it so bad and I wanted to perform and I wanted to impress, uh, my fans. You know, Rose had a fight that night and she fought like absolute garbage. And I, you know, and I told my coaches, like, coach, don't worry. I, I won't, I won't do that to you.

• 28:29Speaker 04

  He said that right before about to walk.

• 28:30Speaker 03

  Right before about to walk. I was like, don't worry, coach. I will never let you down like that. And coach is pissed and everyone's, you know, my, the locker room's all fucked up because Pat's fucking weird.

• 28:39Speaker 04

  Is that the Carlos Sparsa fight? Was that the same night?

• 28:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, uh, and I was at home and so there was just, and that was again, that was my fault. I allowed those things to affect me.

• 28:48Speaker 04

  Right.

• 28:48Speaker 03

  And to, you know, um, affect my fighting decisions. Rather than just being myself. And so that was a huge mistake.

• 29:00Speaker 03

  Another mistake was,

• 29:05Speaker 03

  you know, winning two or three times in a row and just kind of becoming complacent with how serious what we do is and how dangerous this game is. And how much luck and chance are a factor every single night. And so, you know, I wasn't doing the extra credit. I wasn't sitting in the sauna at home. You know, and I don't know, I don't know why. It's just, and then I made that mistake, probably into the Eddie Alvarez, Dustin Poirier fights, lost. And then I won three or four in a row and then I completely went back to the same mindset of, I'm the best in the world. No one can beat me. And I paid for it. And those two mistakes were huge, very, very big learning lessons. And then, the, uh, the Charles Olivera fight, you know, I was like,

• 29:50Speaker 03

  I wanted it so bad and then I made the moment so much bigger than it actually was. Because it's just 25 minutes in time. And it's all I can control is being perfect, my preparation for it. But then ultimately being there for 25 minutes and being perfect. And yeah, those are the mistakes that I made. I had to learn. I had to make those mistakes. I would not change anything about my career. I think the farther back into my career you go, the more special this moment is. And, you know, I think, um, in time, again, I, I've, this is gonna age, like, my, my career is something special. The way that I did it, the way that I, that I lost, the way that I stayed on track, the way that I, you know, threatened retirement if I wasn't gonna get a title champ, a title shot.

• 30:32Speaker 03

  The way I called my shots along the way, and the, um, the discipline I had. I mean, it's second to none. I've watched this sport my whole life. Since 1992, my dad showed me, I remember as a four-year-old seeing it. I don't have a lot of, you know, Great memories. I remember my childhood, but it's not like you have specifics. But I remember seeing it for my first time in my dad's bedroom. We were sitting there watching it together and I was enthralled. I was like, this is, this is amazing. I love this shit.

• 31:02Speaker 04

  Can you picture that? Here with like a baby bottle just squeezing it?

• 31:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I was like, I fucking love this. I love it. And then I watched it and I was a diehard fan. I've been a diehard fan ever since then. And especially in 2001 when it came along, I was, you know, probably in 7th or 8th grade, 6th or 7th grade. And just fell in love with it. And then, you know, me and Coll, going into college, we'd go and sit above the Wild Wings for six, seven, eight hours, spend $5. Those poor service people.

• 31:29Joe Rogan?

  It's just amazing that you've been able to keep this ferocious mentality for so long. Because I remember when you first entered into the UFC, the Michael Johnson fight. I was so pumped for it because I was like, get ready, because this is gonna be fucking wild. Because I had been a fan of yours when you were fighting. What was it, World Series of Fighting? And then that Michael Johnson fight was everything that I thought it would be. Fucking crazy. Just a wild ass fight.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  Crazy coming out party.

• 31:54Speaker 04

  Dude, I giggled so many times in that fight. Dude, when you went against the cage and you were like this, you like looked back and you were like, oh, I'm looking for the shot. And you're like blocking off the thing. And then you come back with the right hook and then you let it back in again, then you hit it with the right hook again off the cage. Dude, there's so many giggle sessions in there. Uh, I wasn't nervous because just again, that's the way he fights and I'm like, no one's gonna forget this fight.

• 32:14Joe Rogan?

  Michael Johnson was swinging too.

• 32:17Speaker 04

  I caught him with that left hand a few times.

• 32:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the same left hand he knocked out Dustin with.

• 32:21Speaker 04

  His left hand is so fast. It is so fast.

• 32:24Joe Rogan?

  And Michael has power.

• 32:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, he does.

• 32:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, dude, and, and he was trying to win. I mean, he was going all out. That you guys just emptied out in that fight. It was fantastic. And I was like, there it is.

• 32:36Speaker 04

  The, the three-rounder to get off the, the backflip took three rounds? He got up there, fell off, got up there, fell off. I was like, you can do it. You're out there motivating him.

• 32:46Joe Rogan?

  I always get so scared for your knees when you do that. I'm like, please don't hurt your knees after you won the title.

• 32:50Speaker 03

  I'm 100% baby. I ain't misty yet.

• 32:53Speaker 04

  We're training for Khabib. We're over at, at high altitude. He's doing backflips off the, off the cage. And I was like, stop. Do this after the fight.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's like, hey, hey, no more backflip. I was like, today? Today's the day? Today's the day I become a bitch? Like today is the day.

• 33:09Speaker 04

  I'll never forget that moment.

• 33:10Speaker 03

  He's like, you know what?

• 33:11Speaker 04

  I turned my head, I was like, stop. Go ahead.

• 33:14Joe Rogan?

  That is kinda true, right?

• 33:15Speaker 04

  Dude, it's mentality.

• 33:16Joe Rogan?

  When you get something and all of a sudden you're special, then you started protecting it and then you won't be special anymore.

• 33:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:23Speaker 04

  This is what makes him who he is.

• 33:24Speaker 03

  That's why I told him, I was like, today, today is the day, huh?

• 33:26Speaker 04

  He's fucking crazy. Like, I never want him to stop being fucking crazy. Like, everything about him, in life, when you play golf with him, he's the highlight. He does shit that, like, you'll never fucking see. Like, it's like, everything you do is the highlight. Like, his life is like his fighting. He's fucking wild.

• 33:41Joe Rogan?

  So your mentality, you've never had to work on, I mean, obviously you've learned lessons along the way, but you've never had to, like, sit down and work on this mindset? It's always been something you inherently possessed?

• 33:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, I think, um...

• 33:55Speaker 04

  It's crazy.

• 33:56Speaker 03

  I think people, I think people just complicate things so much. Like, when you can truly understand that there's, there's, there is things you can't control, but it's not everything. You can only control what's inside of you. You know, you can only control how you perceive things, how you react to things.

• 34:12Joe Rogan?

  The work you put in.

• 34:13Speaker 03

  The work, obviously the preparation.

• 34:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  But it's, um, I mean, there's so much, you know, and I, I guess I always knew that something was coming. Because no matter how far off the, the road, you know, like, I've made mistakes. You know, I've done, I was never an, thank God I was never an alcoholic and never, but I was, I could say I was, I was probably a drug addict. That's, you know, one time in my life, and...

• 34:44Speaker 04

  What drugs?

• 34:47Speaker 03

  I don't know, I have never told my parents about this, so I don't know.

• 34:49Joe Rogan?

  You don't have to.

• 34:50Speaker 03

  All of them, all of them. I want, so, but it's, you know, and I know this is gonna sound stupid, but so I went to school for human services. I wanted to help people.

• 35:00Speaker 03

  A big part of that is helping people come off drugs. And I lost many, over a handful of friends, really close friends, from drugs. Where I come from, we're not far from Mexico, and we had the best. We had the best shit coming right across the border before it ever got cut up. And it was, um, it was my life, you know, where I'm from is very boring. And so like you chase, again, you know, we have it so good in this country. We're always trying to create chaos in order to feel something. And I guess that's what I was probably doing. And in college is when I really, you know, if I'm going to help people come off of drugs, then how can I ever even try to understand if I don't know what they're chasing?

• 35:45Speaker 03

  And so that was a part of it. And also a part was, it felt good, you know? And so, you know, once I did, uh, certain things, I knew what people were chasing. But then I always knew that something was bigger for me and better for me. And I had something to do. And so that was always, it was never a crutch for me. I was always like, that was awesome, you know, I'm not doing it again.

• 36:11Joe Rogan?

  What is it in your head that where you always knew that you had something bigger?

• 36:17Speaker 03

  Uh, well, probably my faith. I mean, I, I've been, my, my parents, the best thing they ever did for me was make me go to church every single Sunday and create a relationship with, with God through the word of Jesus Christ. And just trying to live up to those expectations. Um, I knew, not that I was gonna be a champion or anything. I just knew that I couldn't take the easy way out. You know, um, when you're on drugs or when you're, when you're living a lifestyle like that, then nobody expects anything from you. Nobody wants anything from you. And that's the easy way to live. You know, those are, there's no pressure.

• 37:00Joe Rogan?

  No expectations.

• 37:01Speaker 03

  No expectations, no pressure. And I mean, it really is, I can understand how you can let that overcome the, the passion to live. You know, and, um, I don't know, I just think the passion to live because of my faith has never outweighed my.

• 37:22Speaker 03

  Desire to feel good.

• 37:25Joe Rogan?

  I want to talk about the shift that you made in your career from being the most exciting guy in the world. Wanting to be the most exciting guy in the world, being happy with performing to the best of your ability, whether you win or lose, to wanting to get the belt. What was, what started that decision?

• 37:45Speaker 03

  It's weird because I don't remember a time or a day where I made a change. Other than I'm not going to get hit. You know, in the Dustin Poirier fight and the Eddie Alvarez fight, I absolutely almost broke them. And it was no different than any of my other fights. Nobody had just ever, same with Ilya, you know, like nobody had ever got past it. Nobody had ever been able to withstand the ferocity of my actions for two or three rounds. And then those guys did. And I was like, what happened? You know, and ultimately I put myself in a position and I got hit with a shot that

• 38:29Speaker 03

  took me out of the fight. And so after those fights, I was like, I have to not take these shots. And that was ultimately all I can say that I changed mentally is I'm going to, I don't want to get hit. I used to never care about getting hit because it's like, it doesn't hurt. Nothing hurts in there. You don't feel nothing. It's never hurt. And so that was really just the mindset. I just need to not let them get me in a predicament where I'm not able to, where they have to stop the fight.

• 39:01Joe Rogan?

  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And with World Mental Health Day on the 10th, now's the perfect time to give it a try. In fact, don't even wait until the 10th because all that stress you feel, it's not waiting around. So instead of letting it build up, sign up for a therapy session and unload at any time. Not just on World Mental Health Day. If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance.

• 39:46Joe Rogan?

  Don't have insurance or live outside of the United States? You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Believe it or not, the holiday season is here again, and that means you might need to fill some seasonal roles, fast. Maybe you need extra cashiers or stockers, or maybe something more unique like a lead elf, or an expert gift wrapper, or a Zamboni driver. Whoever you're looking for, whatever skills you need to power through the rest of the year, ZipRecruiter is one of the best places to start your search.

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  Because you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. And because ZipRecruiter helps sort through thousands of resumes and applications showing you the most qualified and interesting ones first. There's even an option for candidates to explain why they want the job. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

• 41:03Speaker 04

  So the shift.

• 41:05Speaker 03

  But he probably from the outside, outside.

• 41:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's definitely there was a shift and it wasn't just like an instant shift. It was the two losses in a row with Eddie and Poirier, where he's like, I'm winning these fights and I need to be able to get to the distance. And I was like, all right, we gotta become a spot fighter because you just drown people. And you're, what's happening is you're making mistakes. We threw a low kick against Poirier and he got caught because he basted back lazy with his shoulders above his hips. So I was like, all right, let's be sharp. Let's fight in spots. Then he goes on a three fight win streak where he's finding the right spots and putting people out from Vic to Barbosa into Cowboy Saroni. And that's where he's like, and then I sat down with him and I was like, do you want to be a champion? And I was like, this is how you have to fight to be a champion is be smart.

• 41:53Speaker 04

  And he never said, he never said he didn't want to be the most excited fighter to war. He would tell me after fights, he's like, I'm not even trying to fight excited, but look at me. And it's like, fuck it. Like, it's so amazing. Like, it's in him. It's just, how do we, how do we get you to sprint 50 yards, pull back for 100 yards and jog? And then sprint for 50 yards and like be able to know your, your, your, your red line. Don't, don't cross over that red line. Don't hold red line.

• 42:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, that, that is again, the experience that you found in wars. It was so critical in that White House fight.

• 42:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, we don't want to make mistakes.

• 42:24Speaker 03

  And it is, I think it's crazy. I think, um, again, the fact that they said that he had outstruck me in the first round, 39 to 32 or something.

• 42:31Joe Rogan?

  You landed some hard jabs in that first round.

• 42:34Speaker 04

  Yours were devastating. He might have touched and skipped on.

• 42:37Speaker 03

  But I'm talking about the perception. It looks like I'm getting hit. It looks like it's a, but I mean, my, I don't have special skin. I am able to see punches and

• 42:50Speaker 04

  And roll with them.

• 42:51Speaker 03

  And roll with punches. If you watch my, you know, fights frame by frame, I'm not getting hit for the most part.

• 42:57Joe Rogan?

  You're moving with the punches.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. It's be like water. Like I'm, I'm constantly, you know, and intuitively making these calculations.

• 43:07Speaker 04

  That's the scoring that when you see that, and I don't know who's counting that, but that's like amateur boxing. Amateur boxing, if the white glove touches you in the face, even if it's not a clean blow, that's considered, that's how you judge.

• 43:19Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 43:19Speaker 04

  And that, that's where Justin, I think where you look at it from a point system, you can't just look at the, the screen and that's why, uh, you know, judges can't look at a screen and go, oh, this guy landed more. This is who won. You had the damaging blows. I think everybody knows that. Like I get it. Like I see the way you roll a shot. I see the way that you fade off. And allow the shot not to go through your skull and deflect it. It still gets touched. to you, so it's considered that they landed that shot, but the damage is like, what you do to people by the way that you hip through, that you drive through people is so different, like, like Justin hits, unlike, he, he's still, I still think to this day, we gotta ask, ask the UFC, but they did a test on him to see who has the hardest bones at the UFC, he, he had the hardest bone. Dude, he kicks me and I'm just like, dude, I, I'm so glad, I feel so bad for Luke.

• 44:04Speaker 03

  He didn't let, he don't let me kick him no more.

• 44:06Speaker 04

  God, dude, Luke could do it just.

• 44:07Joe Rogan?

  Bro, let me tell you something about Luke.

• 44:09Speaker 03

  He has his pad on, he has his pad on, I kick him and his, his nuts swell up.

• 44:12Speaker 04

  Dude, I get blue balls, bro.

• 44:13Speaker 03

  And so I can't kick him no more.

• 44:14Speaker 04

  There's a nerve on the inside of your leg. I talked to a doctor about it, cause I'm like, bro, like, he kicks people and they bruise on the inside of their leg. And it's because the shock through, but there's a nerve on the inside of the leg. I'd go home and I'd tell my wife, I'm like, babe, I got fucking blue balls. And she's like, from who? And I'm like, Justin. She looks at me like, the fuck you got blue balls from Justin for?

• 44:31Joe Rogan?

  One of the things you were doing early in your career that I always thought was so wild was you were leg kicking people from a collar tie. Like you were a leg kick, and I was like, oh my goodness, I'm like, how come no one's doing that? Like you were one of the only guys that I saw that was doing that, that was from the clinch was leg kicking. You've got some fucking flexible hips, man. Because the way you were able to do that from like right in tight like this and then, and not just,

• 44:56Speaker 03

  You pull them to it.

• 44:57Joe Rogan?

  throw the leg out, you're whipping into it.

• 44:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, he, he pulls them to their lead leg, so he's making a base on that knee. And then it's just like, you gotta stump in the ground or you're just trying to bend that tree. Yeah. Yeah, he's very good at that.

• 45:06Joe Rogan?

  Let me tell you something about Luke, cause I got into the octagon at, right after you won, and Luke and, you know, I looked at each other, he was like, ah!

• 45:14Speaker 04

  Dude, the best, dude.

• 45:15Speaker 03

  He's like, dude, he's like, Joe was so, he's like, Joe was so pumped, he hugged me so hard.

• 45:20Joe Rogan?

  He was so happy. He was, it was amazing, cause seeing all those videos and knowing he's in camp with you all the time and knowing how much he loves you, watching the happiness that he had when you won was fucking incredible.

• 45:32Speaker 03

  No, Luke is one of my really, really good friends.

• 45:34Speaker 04

  He pukes every time before a fight, every time, dude.

• 45:36Speaker 03

  Before Trevor was in my corner, Luke cornered me, he used to go, uh, to Arizona with me, I had no coaches. I would just do it in between, you know, in between wrestling seasons. And yeah, he would go down there with me and just wrap my hands and he would just be there.

• 45:48Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 45:49Speaker 04

  He's amazing. One of the best human beings on earth, dude.

• 45:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love that man.

• 45:52Speaker 04

  Hey, do you tell him about the, the, the Sunday? So the Sunday before the fight?

• 45:57Speaker 03

  Oh, fuck.

• 45:57Speaker 04

  So, so there was one time, I think it was in the cowboy fight, where you were, you were pummeling with Ben? And he'd finish with a low kick on Ben every time. And I'm like, stop kicking your coach. And he looks at me, he's like, he's like, Trevor, he used to drag me back on the mats. He's like, I'm gonna kick.

• 46:11Speaker 03

  He used to fuck me up. I was like, just give me this fucking, give me this opportunity to beat his ass.

• 46:15Speaker 04

  So we go golfing, Joe, and I'm not-

• 46:17Speaker 03

  Sunday we go golfing, the Sunday before the fight. We get there Saturday, we go golfing Sunday. And, you know, it's a Sunday, we never work out on Sundays. And Trevor, not Trevor, Luke and Ben got fucking pickled.

• 46:30Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 46:31Speaker 03

  They each had like three very, very, very stiff, um,

• 46:35Speaker 04

  Bloody Marys.

• 46:36Speaker 03

  Luke bought like 12 beers. Cause we got there and they're like, hey, everybody's on the president. And he's like, fuck yeah, I've never heard that before. Everybody's on the president, I'm gonna drink. And so like, whole 10 or 11, Trevor's like, let's fuck with them. Let's tell them that we're gonna work out later.

• 46:50Speaker 04

  Well, we're gonna work out, but I'm telling them, they're, they're gonna be the workout.

• 46:53Speaker 03

  I didn't know we were working out. Put it, I had no fuck-

• 46:56Speaker 04

  Dude, we're fighting on Sunday, we're definitely working out.

• 46:57Speaker 03

  I thought he was fucking with me. We're out there golfing, it's hot as shit, I'm sweating my ass off. I had no idea we were working out that day. He's like, let's fuck with them, let's tell them that we're gonna work out. I was like, alright, cool.

• 47:06Speaker 04

  So I told him, I was gonna text him and give the workout, cause I'll get, I'll lay out the workout for everybody. And, uh, I told Luke he was gonna go three rounds of sparring, uh, full on sparring. And then Ben's gotta go, uh, 40 minutes straight, no breaks, just grappling. Not wrestling, just grappling.

• 47:20Speaker 03

  And they're fucked up.

• 47:20Speaker 04

  Dude, and I told Justin, I was like, alright, let's fuck with him, see how he is. And dude, instantly, before, I didn't text him, we just started talking about it. So we're on the way home, driving home, and dude, Ben is like, dude, he's like, he's like, uh, I'll, I'll just take you down. And, and he's like, I, I asked him, how many times are you gonna take him down?

• 47:35Speaker 03

  As many as I want. As many times I want.

• 47:37Speaker 04

  Dude, dude-

• 47:37Speaker 03

  He's like, 40 minutes, let's go 60 minutes.

• 47:39Speaker 04

  So they went 20, dude, you got what, seven submissions on your coach? He drug him back on the mats, it was so funny. Cause I was like, dude, you gotta drag him back on the mats, cause I gotta witness this.

• 47:47Speaker 03

  It's funny, cause I got a video, uh, I went, so we get home, I go, I go down and take a nap for like two hours, and they just stay drinking.

• 47:55Speaker 04

  Talking shit, why they drinking, dude?

• 47:56Speaker 03

  My YouTube guy filmed everything, and they're just talking so much shit, how they're gonna fuck me up.

• 48:01Speaker 04

  Luke was good though, Luke- He was like, he was trying to stay out of it.

• 48:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, Luke's been through it, man.

• 48:04Speaker 04

  Luke's like, you're really gonna say that?

• 48:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, Luke's like, hey, I ain't saying any of this. Not me, it's him. But they're making a plan how they're gonna team up on me. And so, you know, it's funny, then he got that video there and I'm beating Ben's ass. Oh no, actually, I went with Luke first and I was fucking him up.

• 48:19Speaker 04

  And Luke's punching Ben because Ben won't jump in.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, so Ben's like, he's like, what the fuck, Ben? What the fuck, Ben? Now's the time. And he's asking for help, asking for help. I beat his ass. And then I did it to Ben too.

• 48:30Speaker 04

  We have fun, for sure. It was great. Great coaches. Our whole team is just, everybody's so dialed in.

• 48:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, that whole week is one of my, every time we go, that whole week is one of my favorite experiences.

• 48:39Joe Rogan?

  You were using the sauna in between workouts as well.

• 48:42Speaker 04

  And before, and so we were...

• 48:44Speaker 03

  Nothing, that shit sucked. I say it was perfect, you say it was perfect? It was not. It was detrimental to our performances, yes. The humidity was there. I didn't realize it because obviously it's not, you know, it's not something I can worry about right now, but after round one, I just remember thinking, oh fuck, I am so tired right now. How, how is this possible? And the amount of, the amount of fluid I lost was...

• 49:06Joe Rogan?

  Thank god it wasn't hot.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  I probably lost like fifteen pounds.

• 49:08Joe Rogan?

  Cause it was in the seventies.

• 49:10Speaker 04

  Dude.

• 49:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, seventies with the cool breeze. You know, when you go out there, what you feel is the, the cool breeze, but

• 49:14Speaker 04

  Just heavy air though.

• 49:15Speaker 03

  In the fight, man, it was, it was different.

• 49:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I hated the fact that it was gonna happen, but I'm glad it did.

• 49:20Speaker 03

  I'm, again, I, I would not change, again, I think...

• 49:23Joe Rogan?

  How could you change?

• 49:24Speaker 03

  It affects me, it affects him, you know? Again, I grew up in the country, he's, he's a city boy. There's no way he's not a city boy. I don't know him personally, but there's no way he's not a city boy. You know, and so as a country, country boy from the desert in Arizona, like I was hoping that it would be...

• 49:40Joe Rogan?

  Hot as fuck.

• 49:41Speaker 03

  Hot as fuck, yeah.

• 49:42Speaker 04

  When he sat down on the stool, I was like, oh god, these outside fights kill me. You know, he was, dude, he was, he was so bad.

• 49:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, after round one, they're like, dude, he was shaking.

• 49:50Speaker 04

  Dude, he was like trembling. I was like, holy shit.

• 49:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, it is crazy to ask people to defend a world title in a completely alien environment that you never have fights in. We've had, how many fights outside? We've had the Abu Dhabi fight in like, what was that, 2009 or something like that?

• 50:07Speaker 03

  No, they did, didn't they? What was the setting? I wasn't there.

• 50:11Speaker 04

  It was, it was-

• 50:12Speaker 03

  When Adesanya did his famous walkout in like a, it was covered, but it was, it seemed like the environment was outside.

• 50:19Speaker 04

  Poirier against, uh-

• 50:21Speaker 03

  In Abu Dhabi.

• 50:22Joe Rogan?

  No, the first Abu Dhabi-

• 50:24Speaker 04

  Were they outside?

• 50:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, we did one in Abu Dhabi when BJ-

• 50:27Speaker 03

  The big arena.

• 50:28Joe Rogan?

  -lost to Frankie Edgar. That was outside, in Abu Dhabi. Um, and that was when Anderson Silva fought Damian Maia.

• 50:36Speaker 04

  Is that with that Ferrari building?

• 50:39Joe Rogan?

  The Ferrari building was there, but I don't know if it was in the same place.

• 50:43Speaker 03

  They had a, did they have a fight in the Ferrari building?

• 50:45Joe Rogan?

  I think they did, but I wasn't there for that one. I only went to one of the Abu Dhabi fights.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't that long ago.

• 50:51Speaker 04

  Remember when we were talking to a dude in Morocco?

• 50:53Speaker 03

  Seven years.

• 50:53Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 50:54Speaker 04

  Remember that dude in Morocco said after the first round, he was done, he was just trying to survive? He said it was so hot, remember?

• 50:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, I mean, that's what, I remember it being over there and then, you know, once you realize the climate over there and the humidity, it's like, it doesn't fucking matter.

• 51:08Joe Rogan?

  Remember Bo Dog? Remember Bo Dog fights? They had, they had a fight outside in the sun.

• 51:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:14Joe Rogan?

  On the beach.

• 51:15Speaker 04

  Caesar Palace in Vegas. Remember Caesar's Palace? They had boxing. I, we got to fight there, Verno Phillips against, uh, Kasey MMA.

• 51:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's right. They used to always do it outside.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  World Series of Fighting around the NASCAR event?

• 51:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's, that was crazy.

• 51:28Joe Rogan?

  Duran versus Hearns. Duran versus Hearns was outside.

• 51:32Speaker 04

  They were, they were great, yeah.

• 51:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's true, that's right. Uh, at least Vegas is dry.

• 51:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Arizona, Vegas, Colorado.

• 51:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, humidity was what I was training for with him was heat stroke. Like dealing with it where you can't breathe, it's heavy air, like, like-

• 51:46Joe Rogan?

  So were you putting water on the rocks in the sauna as well?

• 51:49Speaker 04

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 51:50Joe Rogan?

  And so what was the-

• 51:51Speaker 04

  And we trained in a hotter gym. I'd turn the temperature up in the gyms just so he's getting used to dealing with a little bit more heat stroke.

• 51:56Speaker 03

  We would spike my heart rate and then I would go in the sauna 15 minutes and I would come out and do eight to 10 rounds.

• 52:03Speaker 04

  It was great. I'm so glad we did it.

• 52:05Joe Rogan?

  Very smart, very smart. Cause that environment, it means it's so completely different. I just, ultimately, I think the best way to fight is obviously the way you usually fight. Controlled environment. That's how it should be.

• 52:17Speaker 04

  It was cool though, Joe. You know why?

• 52:19Joe Rogan?

  It was so cool.

• 52:20Speaker 04

  So we went and did a rehearsal, okay? And I'm like, why are we rehearsing at walk-through? Like, it's a freaking wedding. Like, just tell us where to go. The camera guys are always like, alright, your mark.

• 52:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm just following the camera.

• 52:30Speaker 04

  So, why are we doing this? And then we go there and we get stuck in this locker room for two hours.

• 52:35Joe Rogan?

  Hour, hour and a half.

• 52:36Speaker 04

  Cause of rain. And, thank god that happened, because then I started to go, oh. Because it's all unexpected. And how Elliot said, hey, I'm a visualizer. I can't visualize this arena. And I visualize a lot too, so I was like, I felt the exact same thing when he said that. And, uh, that's when I knew, hey, these are gonna be some huge unknowns. And I had told him that night, cause the rain was coming. Like, it was crazy how the storm split around, cause it was all bright red. I was like, this is thunderstorms. This ain't just...

• 53:03Joe Rogan?

  They were talking about pushing the fight to 10:30pm.

• 53:06Speaker 04

  We had planned on fighting it like-

• 53:07Joe Rogan?

  Start of the night.

• 53:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, two in the morning was what I was planning on.

• 53:09Speaker 03

  I started staying up till like 3am after the rehearsal. I was like, it could be 3am when we fight. I'm gonna just start staying up.

• 53:14Speaker 04

  But that's what was cool. Like, the walkout, like, having the soldiers, like, just walking through the soldiers. There was that... We weren't able to take any of this in, Joe. And I can't really speak for him. I know where his mind's at. I couldn't, uh, from a coach's standpoint. I was nervous as fuck, cause you don't know, there's no pattern I can take on right now and kind of put myself and breathe to it. It was very unique. And, at the end, I couldn't even really smile. It was just like, dude, I'm just like, blown away. Now I can kind of just look around slowly and just try to take in everything. Because it was very, very hard to, to go through that scenario with the pressure of us fighting on, uh, on this stage, at the White House.

• 53:55Speaker 04

  We're the Americans. We're a 6-1 underdog. That gets to you. That, that, you know, when you hear that over and over and over and over, it's, you know, you think, here you go. Oh dude, you caught one. You caught a Marlin. But having

• 54:10Joe Rogan?

  Take a left.

• 54:11Speaker 04

  Just that scenario was so unique and then once it was over, then it was like, now I get to enjoy the White House and just being here and this, this, this.

• 54:19Joe Rogan?

  Look at that scene. There you can see it. What is he reading there? Is that the Declaration of Independence?

• 54:24Speaker 04

  Yep. So we weren't in the room with him right there. We, through the rehearsal, yeah.

• 54:27Joe Rogan?

  How crazy is that? He's in the Oval Office stepping out.

• 54:31Speaker 04

  And then all the soldiers walking through, so cool, like having the two guys next to him.

• 54:36Joe Rogan?

  And a lot of people complained about this happening at the White House, but you don't think this is cool?

• 54:43Speaker 04

  This is, dude, it's fighting.

• 54:44Joe Rogan?

  How could you not like this?

• 54:46Speaker 04

  This is fighting.

• 54:46Joe Rogan?

  How could anyone not, this shouldn't be taking place at the White, shut the fuck up.

• 54:50Speaker 04

  Dude, life is a fight, world is a fight, like.

• 54:52Joe Rogan?

  Incredible to watch.

• 54:53Speaker 04

  Inspirational.

• 54:54Joe Rogan?

  It's a wild thing to watch. By the way, how much gold did Trump put on those walls? Look, he's got gold everywhere. Look at these fucking gold designs.

• 55:01Speaker 04

  When we were at the Oval Office, first thing I said is, I was like, this thing is small as hell. Like, when I see it on pictures, it like seems so big and I was, but the gold pieces on the wall is the first thing I was like, they dust that shit every day, because dude, it was so clean.

• 55:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, he put that up there. None of that was there. None of that was there. He was explaining it to me. There was no gold. I wanted to have gold. He's got a gold cherub, like a solid gold cherub that's above like one of the doors. He goes, if Putin comes, hopefully it doesn't fall on his head. It's like, he's got gold everywhere. It's all him. He redesigned a bunch of the things now. You know, he's a builder, right? So that's why he wanted to do the ballroom. That's why he wanted to keep it, you know? He likes everything in gold. He's a gold guy.

• 55:41Speaker 04

  Was that Austin Powers?

• 55:43Joe Rogan?

  Bro, watch, we were just watching you look at the Declaration of Independence before you walked out, which is also wild. Like, this is never gonna happen again. This is more historic than rumble in the jungle, more historic than I mean, think about all the great fights that we've all watched as kids that were like, remember that? This tops everything because of the scene, because of the fact that not only is it at the White House, but the American who's a six to one on some books, underdog, pulls it off in spectacular fashion. And just the seesaw of the fight too.

• 56:18Speaker 04

  The back and forth.

• 56:19Joe Rogan?

  The back and forth of the fight was fucking huge because the second round was crazy. It was like, oh no.

• 56:24Speaker 04

  And letting it go on again, when, so our corner, all the coaches were like, dude, they're gonna stop it. And I was, said out loud, I was like, please let it go on. And I just wanted to fini, like a

• 56:34Joe Rogan?

  Definitive ending.

• 56:35Speaker 04

  Dude, because that would have been a point where it's like, especially with him going, "Hey, I want to go and continue," and then we have Goddard come out and say, "Hey, you are..."

• 56:42Joe Rogan?

  Thank God for Mark Goddard. Okay, because if it wasn't for Mark Goddard, if another less experienced referee... You think he did?

• 56:50Speaker 03

  He wanted out.

• 56:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 56:51Speaker 03

  You don't, you know for a fact, you do not ever, as a fighter, say, "I cannot see." It's over. And he was counting on that. He said, he had already stated it. He didn't need to say it again. He did not think there was, I don't think he thought there was...

• 57:03Speaker 04

  So you think that he called Goddard a turkey internally? He was like, when he said, "Oh, you're gonna go fight." He was like, "Hey, I was playing that though."

• 57:10Speaker 03

  In that moment, he just like, I've don't, you know, I've tried, and it might have been like, you know, the little devil on his shoulder trying to get him out. And then he reevaluated, re-thunk it, and understood that he had to keep fighting.

• 57:21Speaker 04

  Did you say thunk?

• 57:23Joe Rogan?

  Thunk it?

• 57:23Speaker 03

  Re-thunk it?

• 57:24Speaker 04

  Dude, that's a real deal.

• 57:25Speaker 03

  Really? That's a real word? I stopped him.

• 57:27Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 57:28Speaker 03

  I stopped him. Good. I stopped him twice. I stopped him twice that night. There's no doubt about it.

• 57:34Joe Rogan?

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• 58:16Joe Rogan?

  maps for offline use, so that you're never guessing, even when you're off the grid. It's a powerful tool built for serious off-roaders. Try OnX Offroad for 50% off. Go to onxmaps.com/jerogan. Well, it was, um, it was a big factor that Goddard let it go on, because then we got to see that epic fourth round, which is fucking crazy, which was just, in the end, when you landed that knee of the body, that was like the final...

• 58:47Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:48Joe Rogan?

  That was it. That knee of the body was nasty.

• 58:49Speaker 04

  The punches, right? When he landed that heavy knee, that he just starts chopping it, where he got the elbow in?

• 58:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then then he has to quit on a stool. And if Goddard had just given to that referee or that judges or the the doctors rather desires, here it is.

• 59:04Speaker 04

  I love how you punch right here, right on the spot. Yeah, I saw. Oh, right there. Oh, right where I just lay out.

• 59:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he did not like that. And that was the end.

• 59:16Joe Rogan?

  Crazy fight. I mean.

• 59:18Speaker 03

  It's crazy how different. So again, being a fan of this sport, I've got to watch, you know, I would have usually watched this from. And yeah, it would have been the most fucking incredible thing ever. Being the fighter, you know, you really not appreciating any of that because you're so locked into. It's like golfing, like you don't know what golfing is like certain swing thoughts. You know, and nothing else can come in, nothing can creep in. And so me looking at the Declaration of Independence, I was looking at it, but I I didn't. I didn't take it in as as this being the decade. I was sitting there. I was like, OK. Gotta reset his feet, gotta control, gotta move left, gotta move left, can't get against the fence. You know, and then those are the thoughts I'm having as through the whole walkout.

• 1:00:02Speaker 03

  And so I'm really not taking any of it in as it as it, you know, as the show or as the theatrics of it.

• 1:00:08Joe Rogan?

  Of course not.

• 1:00:09Speaker 03

  Watching it in hindsight, obviously, is it's fucking awesome.

• 1:00:12Joe Rogan?

  There was something special about you warming up with the American flag around your shoulder, too. We were watching that. There was something special about watching you shadow box before all this with the American flag on. I was like, if he wins, good lord. If he wins tonight, it's gonna be fucking insane. And it was. Is the the the feeling of like joy throughout the building, throughout the grounds, like the happiness that everybody had seen. Had been there to see such an incredible event and such an amazing cap to that event with your fight. It was just nuts.

• 1:00:45Speaker 04

  It felt like a whole arena to me. It was crazy for the amount of people that you could see.

• 1:00:49Joe Rogan?

  Here it is to backflip in front of the fucking White House.

• 1:00:54Speaker 04

  Dude, he flag bowled.

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  That's gonna be a sick.

• 1:00:56Speaker 04

  Dude, you flag bowled, dude.

• 1:00:57Speaker 03

  That's a sick picture. I rolled out of it.

• 1:00:59Speaker 04

  It was, hey, hey, tell me, tell me, what was it? Tell me, what did you use? Newton's law?

• 1:01:04Speaker 03

  Newton's first law. Object in motion needs to stay, I just stayed in motion.

• 1:01:08Joe Rogan?

  Stay in motion.

• 1:01:09Speaker 03

  That's all it is.

• 1:01:10Joe Rogan?

  Look at the size of that fucking crowd that was outside.

• 1:01:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, cuz you couldn't see this crowd, like, I couldn't see this crowd, but having the environment.

• 1:01:16Joe Rogan?

  Hear them and you could feel them.

• 1:01:19Speaker 04

  Dude.

• 1:01:19Joe Rogan?

  You could feel the energy. I mean, even though there was only 4,000 people, did not, did not feel like 4,000 people. It felt like 100,000 people because all those people were behind us.

• 1:01:29Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:29Joe Rogan?

  You know, it was different.

• 1:01:30Speaker 04

  How many people were in that place?

• 1:01:31Joe Rogan?

  Eighty-five thousand plus. Yeah.

• 1:01:33Speaker 03

  It happened so fast.

• 1:01:35Joe Rogan?

  The, the, the size of the group outside was insane.

• 1:01:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:39Joe Rogan?

  I mean, and they're watching on these giant screens and freaking out and...

• 1:01:42Speaker 04

  Like a concert.

• 1:01:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:43Speaker 04

  When we were at the weigh-ins, it was like, dude, that's what I pictured, like, Woodstock being like, dude, I looked and I could not see the end of the people.

• 1:01:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. No, it was nuts, the weigh-ins were nuts. When we first walked out, I was like, holy shit, this is crazy. But it just shows how hyped people were for this event.

• 1:01:58Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 1:01:59Joe Rogan?

  You know, I mean, it was an incredible event. I mean, the UFC production team, they just knocked it out of the park. And then, more importantly, you knocked it out of the park.

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  It could not have gone better.

• 1:02:08Joe Rogan?

  It couldn't have gone better. And the, the most important thing was that you did have to overcome, that we did see a real back and forth. And we did see the skills that led people to believe that this guy is the number one pound-for-pound farder in the world. I mean, his fucking boxing is elite.

• 1:02:23Speaker 04

  He's...

• 1:02:23Joe Rogan?

  It is slick.

• 1:02:25Speaker 03

  But, I mean, my coach is a fucking genius. I mean, when it comes to, like, again, it's really hard to, you always sound right in hindsight, but the strategy we had was so perfect to fight a guy like that. I mean, if, I think if you ask him right now, which way was Justin moving? He's gonna think I was moving right the whole time because my head is so, so heavy and I lean over to that side. But I was moving left the entire time. And he's so pointed that, you know, he, he's powerful here, but when you, when you put him here, like, nobody can push and sprint, like, he's not ever gonna take off sprinting that way as fast as he can.

• 1:03:08Speaker 03

  He's gonna have to gather and reset and then, and then point and then go. And I constantly kept... readjusting him and it was so subtle and that's what fighting is is subtle subtle movements but I mean his game plan was was and then his game plan his mind my ability but really it's my athletic ability like if people don't understand how athletic I am and I think that is what surprises every opponent I've ever fought is how you know herky jerky twitchy how explosive and how athletic I am and I think that's the biggest asset that I have

• 1:03:50Joe Rogan?

  why do you think anybody be surprised by that at this stage why do you think they're surprised

• 1:03:54Speaker 03

  because the human because it doesn't look like that

• 1:03:56Speaker 04

  no you're I Justin I think you're looking into the Patty fight I feel like the Patty fight you you because a lot of people are like oh you look older you look this because the way we fought like our style our game plan Patty fight

• 1:04:07Speaker 03

  how sweet is that now I mean if you watch the Patty fight you would never expect you would only expect punches coming from here that's all I threw

• 1:04:14Joe Rogan?

  because he would pull

• 1:04:15Speaker 03

  and had to like wrangle him in

• 1:04:17Speaker 04

  wrangle him in

• 1:04:18Speaker 03

  and this guy no shot

• 1:04:20Speaker 04

  like palm strikes like we need to palm strike him we need to keep him inside of our loop and if you're throwing stray shots at Patty Patty will disengage very long with his his upper body so he was throwing wild shots and then long uppercuts like stay on the outside when you're throwing the uppercuts because Patty's got very good knees coming in so we can't get too deep with that very simple plan but also it was like make it chaotic as most chaotic as you could be to be able to do that because Patty his blitzing was very fast he's a very good blitzer he'll he'll blitz past you and almost like running type of punches like old Vitor Belfort but this fight is a lot different where it's now elbows in we have to be tied in these types of positions and we need to step to his center and get on his back foot line or outside of his back

• 1:05:03Speaker 04

  foot line and that was like a key factor to this one is because Ilya is very front heavy and will bounce back and forth so once he goes to this angle we need to attack the rear shoulder and once he starts to reset now we're going to be able to jab and stick the jab at the rear shoulder where your jab was landing that is my favorite part is the jab wasn't landing here where Ilya's got a very good slide we're jabbing outside so you're not doing inside jab Coming under, you're jabbing from outside your shoulder, which is pushing him on his rear foot. And then, once we started to pressure, my favorite part is the jab, pause, right hand. His left foot, Justin's left foot, when we go-

• 1:05:37Speaker 03

  See, I'm moving left here.

• 1:05:38Speaker 04

  Has to be, has to be outside his rear foot, like, right there. He opened his lead foot, and he got his foot outside. And that's also, so in case the right hand count-

• 1:05:45Joe Rogan?

  That was a giant moment in the fight, when he landed that right hand.

• 1:05:48Speaker 04

  Dude, the sound of it was crazy.

• 1:05:49Speaker 03

  Oh, I wanted to sum his ass.

• 1:05:50Speaker 04

  Boom, yup.

• 1:05:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that was such a hard shot.

• 1:05:52Speaker 04

  Do that one more time, Jamie, and watch his lead foot after the jab. Now, watch his left foot after the jab, outside the rear foot, boom. And that, because he's got a high shoulder, and if I'm throwing a right hand down this point, if you were looking at me, Joe, if you're, if I'm here, if he gets his foot out, now the shot is coming from here. So, we were able to put him on the back foot and find that, because Ilija's got a very good shoulder tuck.

• 1:06:14Joe Rogan?

  He also dropped that right hand down.

• 1:06:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:06:17Joe Rogan?

  It was beautiful. It was beautiful. And it was such a giant moment in the fight.

• 1:06:21Speaker 03

  Like, look where I started. I started with my back to us, and look, left, left.

• 1:06:26Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:27Speaker 03

  Left, left, left.

• 1:06:30Speaker 04

  But, if you go out to the left, backwards, where, that's where Ilija, to me, is the best. How he stopped Volk, where he'll throw at you, and then you go, and then, then he readjusts his lead shoulder almost to his alpa, super dangerous there. That was one thing that we talked about, we cannot go backwards to the left. Because that's where we get square, and Ilija, dude, he's very front-heavy, so he will attack you quick. And he gets there fast.

• 1:06:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, if he can recover from this, it's gonna be a big lesson, a big lesson learned, and, you know, I wonder if he'll still have those celebration dinners the night before.

• 1:07:02Speaker 03

  There's no way.

• 1:07:04Speaker 04

  He better not, dude. His team, that's up to his coaches, to be honest with you.

• 1:07:07Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing, hubris is an amazing thing. Like, it, people love that kind of confidence, they love that belief in themselves, and when someone pulls it off, people were talking for days about the Olivera fight. You know, he celebrated the night before, isn't that crazy?

• 1:07:21Speaker 04

  And it worked that time, and it played out great for him.

• 1:07:23Joe Rogan?

  But, the lack of experience being the nail. So much experience being the hammer.

• 1:07:29Speaker 03

  It's just, the expectations, he never thought he would have to be here.

• 1:07:33Joe Rogan?

  But, you keep saying, I wanted to go back to this thing that you said, that people don't think you're athletic, and I don't agree with that. I don't understand why you think that.

• 1:07:42Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 1:07:42Joe Rogan?

  It made me watch the Michael Johnson fight.

• 1:07:44Speaker 03

  Even when I.

• 1:07:45Joe Rogan?

  Think you're athletic.

• 1:07:46Speaker 03

  I got to college, you know, my freshman year of college and I did a uh cartwheel to a backflip and these guy, two, one guy was like,

• 1:07:56Speaker 03

  I would have never fucking guessed you could do some shit like that. Like I just don't understand. You know, if you look at me, I don't look like an athlete, but.

• 1:08:03Speaker 04

  Dude, you won a Ferrari.

• 1:08:04Speaker 03

  No, I, I know.

• 1:08:05Speaker 04

  Wait, wait, wait, wait.

• 1:08:06Speaker 03

  I know how athletic I am. I just.

• 1:08:08Speaker 04

  What are you talking about?

• 1:08:09Speaker 03

  Perception.

• 1:08:10Speaker 04

  No, no, no. Your perception's crazy. Listen, you look like an athlete. What the fuck are you talking about? He said, dude, he sent me this picture when I first met him. From, he went up to do a, a clinic with his coach up in Granby with Ben Charrington and he sends me this video. I don't know where I opened it up. And he's got a soccer ball and he's in this auditorium with the pads down on the ground and he's got his phone set up on the, the pads that are against the wall. He throws a soccer ball up in the air and he does one of those bicycle kicks. He played just like one or two years of soccer. He did a bicycle kick, landed on his feet and the ball knocked the phone off the freaking thing, dude. He hit the freaking phone. It was the coolest thing I've ever seen. I was like, bro, you are nuts. This guy's snowboarding when we had snowboarded?

• 1:08:51Speaker 04

  Cause I rode professional when I was younger, got taken out of, out of high school for it and he,

• 1:08:58Speaker 04

  this dude, he would catch things so fast and his tumbling, there was one time we were watching him and he was in moguls and moguls on a snowboard. He does this 360, catches his edge, falls to his back and bounces off one of the moguls to a backflip, right back into the moguls and do these people on the side thought he meant to do that shit? They're like, dude. I was like, bro, his tumbling skills, dude, you're freaking nuts. You are an athlete. I think everybody knows you're an athlete.

• 1:09:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're not built like Paul Acosta, if that's what you mean.

• 1:09:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:24Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's like you're not, you, you know, there's, there's guys that have less body fat than you and guys have more prominent muscles than you, but nobody looks at you fighting and doesn't think you're athletic. That's crazy.

• 1:09:34Speaker 04

  I think it's the experts after the patty fight saying, oh, he looks sloppy and some fights gotta be sloppy.

• 1:09:40Joe Rogan?

  Those people are retarded.

• 1:09:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:41Joe Rogan?

  That, that fight looked like, like chaos. Looked like you were gonna press him and you, you, it also looked like you were kind of disdainful of his, his ability to hurt you.

• 1:09:51Speaker 04

  There you go.

• 1:09:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:52Speaker 04

  You know exactly.

• 1:09:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, once, once I didn't respect his power, I was like, I'm fucking walking through.

• 1:09:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and that's what it looked like. It looked like you were just, just trying to make it as chaotic as possible.

• 1:10:02Speaker 04

  You make it sound like you had like a water boy, like someone was like, "The water sucks." And he's like, "Huh," making the noises, dude.

• 1:10:10Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:10:11Speaker 04

  You don't, you...

• 1:10:12Joe Rogan?

  But that's also probably a good thing that you think about yourself that way. You know, because it forces you to rise above and beyond anybody's expectations of you. You know, and I think one of the things about this fight that makes it so important is because Ilya was so dangerous. You had to get like deep in the zone. You couldn't have a moment like the Max fight.

• 1:10:35Speaker 03

  Well, it was, the Max fight got me here. Without that, I would have never been as hungry. I said it was gonna happen and it didn't happen, didn't happen, didn't happen. Then it happened and it's like, okay. Now I can, I can never let my parents see me like that again. That was, that was a driving factor. Like, I can never let my mom. I remember getting knocked out. I don't remember getting knocked out. I got knocked out. I don't remember anything. I don't remember him getting his hand raised. And it had to have been 40 minutes to an hour. And then I just, my first recollection is being in the ambulance and seeing my mom's face.

• 1:11:09Speaker 04

  Can I tell you that? Can I tell that story?

• 1:11:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, tell me what I did, because I still don't know.

• 1:11:12Speaker 04

  So we're in the ambulance, okay?

• 1:11:15Speaker 03

  Well, you were in there too. You were in there too, thank God.

• 1:11:17Speaker 04

  I was sitting in there with you. Your mom's standing outside the back doors and we're waiting for the driver. There, there, there's a medic in there with us, but he's, he's good. But he keeps asking the same question over and over.

• 1:11:26Speaker 03

  I still don't remember any of this.

• 1:11:27Speaker 04

  And I'm worried about like, you know, everybody's parents are different on how they react, you know? And his mom was just cool, just like, I was so impressed. I was so impressed with her just spirit of seeing that happen. But Justin's laying there and he's like, he's cool in everything he does. So he's got like this cool like lay, like, he's like, you know, just got stopped. And he's laying there and he's like, he'll look at me and he gets like his head, he's like, "I got knocked out?" And I was like, "Yeah."

• 1:11:53Speaker 03

  It's like 40, this is like 40 minutes later.

• 1:11:55Speaker 04

  "What round?" And I said, "Last second of the fight," and he goes...

• 1:12:00Speaker 04

  Good for him. Dude, I'm telling you, like, two minutes ago by, and we'd just be having a normal conversation. And he'd look at me. I get knocked out? And I was like, yep. Dude, it happened over and over and over.

• 1:12:12Joe Rogan?

  You've had that happen with fighters.

• 1:12:13Speaker 04

  Yes, but him saying, "Good for him." The way he said it every time that he came back to it. Like, that's the type of person Justin is. Like, if he losing competition, the better man won that night. And that, to me, is something that stands out to me.

• 1:12:27Joe Rogan?

  That's character.

• 1:12:28Speaker 04

  Character of him saying, when he does it, that's subconscious traits that you have.

• 1:12:32Joe Rogan?

  That character is also the character that allows you to reach your full potential.

• 1:12:36Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 1:12:36Joe Rogan?

  Because you're not being held back by any bullshit ego things.

• 1:12:39Speaker 04

  Not fake.

• 1:12:40Joe Rogan?

  Because there's a lot of people that are held back. As good as they are, they don't ever reach their full potential because they have some bullshit ego problems.

• 1:12:47Speaker 04

  Absolutely. They care of what everybody thinks.

• 1:12:49Joe Rogan?

  And in that situation, losing that fight in the last second of the last round and having that reaction, that is the truest test of character that a man is ever gonna go through.

• 1:12:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:12:59Joe Rogan?

  That is as true a test of character ever, in front of the whole world.

• 1:13:03Speaker 03

  What I remember first is seeing my mom's face, though. Saw her face and I saw no concern. She was worried about me, but she was not concerned.

• 1:13:12Joe Rogan?

  She wasn't freaked out?

• 1:13:13Speaker 03

  No, she wasn't freaked out at all. I was like... And that's when I never, I never reset and asked if I had got knocked out again after that moment, I don't think.

• 1:13:22Speaker 04

  No, no. It happened for probably, I'd say you probably asked it six or seven times. And then once, then we were cool for probably five minutes before we went to the hospital. There, you're totally cool. The, the cool part about this, Joe, is those are some of my, and it sucks because he's taking a shot like this, but me as a coach and as someone that just loves fighting and loves the inspiration and what these guys do is those are my proudest moments. Winning a fight like this, it was proud. And, and, you know, taking it in, you're going, wow, this is a cool spot to be in, and you have to be grateful for it. But there's times where... I'm caught smiling when my fighters are down, like when, when Camaro got, got kicked. And I stood next to him with the biggest smile just because I'm like, dude, you went out on your shield.

• 1:14:06Speaker 04

  You were looking so good. And this is the way you stand up. Again, so important to me. Justin Salas, one time with Tim Means, it was one of my proudest moments. Just to see his, his subconscious, like I love the mindset of people. It was a hard knee. Dude, Tim Means hits him with a knee. And he fights through it a little bit and takes another knee and he goes down and he's on the ground. And his right leg is still like moving and he's like still punching and he's out. And I'm like, dude, that's a fighting spirit. Like there is no quitting. Like you're, you're fighting through being knocked out. And subconsciously, he's still in the fight and his body is still reacting that way. Instead of shelling up and being like, I just got rocked. I'm going to shell up. I could not wait to get in the octagon and they're like not trying to let me in. I'm like, let me just get over to him and sit next to him and put some ice on the back.

• 1:14:50Speaker 04

  When we stop guys, I'm always over to the other opponent first. To me, that's, that's the coolest part is being able to see someone go out there and do their best. And then to watch them come back. And that's why I'm very, I'm very excited to kind of see what happens with Ilya. This is going to be a hard one to overcome, but I hope he does. Cause he's, he's, he's that talented. If he takes the right lessons, that's going to be a super inspirational thing to overcome. It's going to be hard, but I, I, I sure hope we get to witness that.

• 1:15:16Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:01Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:49Joe Rogan?

  blue chew gold and get the third free with my code rogan. You'll also receive free overnight shipping. That's promo code rogan. Head over to blue chew.com for details and important safety information. Check it out. This ad and the products being advertised are intended for a United States audience. I wonder if he's gonna stay at 155. There are big guys at 155 and he's, he wasn't that big for 45. You know, you think about weight cutting in the modern era. Like you were, you're considerably bigger than him. When you guys were standing next to each other, I'm like, this is, there's a, a big difference.

• 1:17:25Speaker 03

  I've also really focused on getting bigger last three or four fights.

• 1:17:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I.

• 1:17:31Speaker 04

  You were 83 in a patty fight.

• 1:17:33Speaker 03

  The night of weight, yeah, I was 83.

• 1:17:34Speaker 04

  183 in a patty fight. So he was.

• 1:17:36Speaker 03

  I touched, I touched 80s this fight. Uh, we waited on Saturday 11, Saturday when I went to bed, I think I was 184.

• 1:17:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:17:45Speaker 03

  And then I think when I woke up, I was like 176. That's how much water flowed. It's crazy. Our bodies are crazy.

• 1:17:52Joe Rogan?

  Right. Especially because all the weight cutting.

• 1:17:53Speaker 03

  But I think when I got there, I was pissing so much. I was actually too hydrated for the drug test. So I had to piss three, three times. I couldn't drink water.

• 1:18:02Joe Rogan?

  You were too hydrated for a drug test? How's that work?

• 1:18:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. So if the piss is too diluted, then they make you do it again.

• 1:18:09Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:18:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:10Speaker 04

  That's, that's why, you know, doing it after a fight. So you used to do it after the fights all the time, but your adrenaline's going. So you don't pee. So it takes a long time. Like we've sat in locker rooms for hours waiting for the piss test. But when you're doing it after like rehydration, that's a shitty thing because these guys have to hydrate. Everybody's fucking taking as much fluids as they can. So that makes it tough. But with the weight cutting piece with him going back down, I agree with you. I think Ilya is a smaller body, but he's also. A big advantage for Aliyah's speed. And when you go up in weight, that speed is a huge factor. If you see a lot of guys go up like with Max, Max kept his speed when he came up. When he went back down, I think, you know, everybody was like, oh, he beat Max. He beat a drained Max.

• 1:18:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think that weight cut down to 45 for him was brutal.

• 1:18:52Speaker 04

  That's, and this is where, from like a coaching standpoint, if it is hard for you to make it at that weight, I care about the longevity of a person. And I've seen guys get dropped with jabs because of bad weight cuts.

• 1:19:05Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:19:06Speaker 04

  And that going back down and that's, to me, the scariest part in this, in this, this fight game.

• 1:19:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think there's two things we have to change the fight game. One of them is weight cutting and two of them is your gloves. You gotta bring your fucking gloves in. But the weight cutting thing, don't you think that we need more weight classes?

• 1:19:24Joe Rogan?

  Or I shouldn't say that. I should say, do you think we need more weight classes?

• 1:19:27Speaker 04

  I think there's, there's, there's many ways. Like, I think you're gonna have to have some type of a, a, a weight class. And there's different ways to do it. Like, maybe you, you have where you can't go over a certain amount of weight after you make weight, and you weigh in a week out, where you can really recover because...

• 1:19:42Joe Rogan?

  But I think guys are gonna do it anyway. They're just gonna have bad performances.

• 1:19:45Speaker 03

  I think, for me, I want nothing to change. I mean, we are grown ass men and women, and we're making these choices.

• 1:19:53Joe Rogan?

  Right, but you can make 55 and it's good for your frame. Now imagine these guys that are tweeters.

• 1:19:57Speaker 03

  You don't understand how hard it is for me to make 55.

• 1:19:58Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure it's hard. No, no, no, I'm not thinking it's easy, but you can make it. You've made it over and over and over again. But like, think about guys that are in between.

• 1:20:06Speaker 04

  Yeah. Should be a 60 or 65er like in boxing now.

• 1:20:10Joe Rogan?

  70 to 85 is crazy. 85 to 205 is bananas. And then 205 to 265, that's...

• 1:20:16Speaker 03

  Those weight classes are already watered down, in a way. And so you're just gonna water it down more.

• 1:20:21Speaker 04

  So, these are my thoughts and my research that I've done, that, that it's, it's, I've talked to Dr. D about it. And I, I want to get some expert, some doctor who can actually talk to me about this. Because when I started researching boxing, why is there so many deaths in boxing? What stood out to me was almost every death in boxing in the last 10 to 15 years, there's every once in a while it's from a punch, where they get dropped and they don't get up. And they get hemorrhaging. Almost all of them are past the ninth round, especially the ones I'm talking about that don't take a punch. They're past the ninth round and it looks like they start to get tired and they're just like, hey, I need to take a knee

• 1:21:04Speaker 04

  and lay down. A lot of these guys are winning the fight and not even taking a lot of damage. And if we're cutting weight the day before, you're teaching your body to sweat and sweat and sweat. To me, I believe, because I've had a fighter where, you know, Kamal in his last fight, we were crapping so bad, so scary, so freaking scary.

• 1:21:23Speaker 03

  I was like, bro, call it off, call it off.

• 1:21:25Speaker 04

  I was within like, like minutes of call and I talked to the whole team about it. But if you dehydrate yourself, think of my lips, if they get dehydrated, they crack when I smile. And if you dehydrate your brain, and I had talked to Dr. D, I was like, could that be something if you dehydrate your brain? Who caused something? He's like, absolutely. And then I started to research that. But if you go back and look at all the boxers and if we can get someone that could do their true research, that understands this stuff. That to me is like, what scares me about weight cutting, because you're training your body to lose that amount of weight. And when you start to do things in patterns, you just de- took all the nutrients out of your body. And then you're going hard in a fight like that. And that was like the big thing with the Tony Ferguson fight. That's kind of funny now, but it wasn't funny to me. I didn't give no fucking water for a five round fight.

• 1:22:06Speaker 04

  That is crazy. And the longer you take your brain to that point of dehydration.

• 1:22:11Joe Rogan?

  What, didn't you give him water? You just forgot?

• 1:22:13Speaker 04

  Dude.

• 1:22:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, we were locked in.

• 1:22:14Speaker 04

  This guy don't train with water. So it was like, dude.

• 1:22:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't drink water. I don't drink water at practice. Cause everyone's like, you want water? I'm like, water's for pussies.

• 1:22:21Speaker 03

  No, I don't want water.

• 1:22:22Speaker 04

  Talk about the mindset.

• 1:22:23Joe Rogan?

  You don't drink any water in training at all?

• 1:22:25Speaker 04

  No, he'll drink afterwards. Like we did this fight.

• 1:22:28Speaker 03

  They made me this fight.

• 1:22:29Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so do you think that that, that just helps your mental?

• 1:22:33Speaker 03

  No, because I, it doesn't, it can't, because I'm fucking working right now. I'm locked in. Like, I might not get water one day. You know, there might, I might want water.

• 1:22:44Joe Rogan?

  Even when you're doing strength and conditioning, everything?

• 1:22:46Speaker 03

  Nothing. I never drink water during practice.

• 1:22:47Joe Rogan?

  Wow. So you make sure you're hydrated before you get in there?

• 1:22:50Speaker 03

  I drink a lot after and.

• 1:22:52Joe Rogan?

  But once you're in there, you're just going.

• 1:22:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, this, this fight was different, but yeah.

• 1:22:56Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. That's crazy.

• 1:22:58Speaker 03

  That's just me. That's just me being an asshole.

• 1:23:01Joe Rogan?

  You know, Ramadan's nuts. Like, I know Bilal was training with no water. And, you know, drinking no water during the day and then training again at nighttime. And, you know, that's, that's gotta be so hard. But going through hard training sessions and no water. So you do it, but so there's two things going on. One, I would think, maybe you could do more work and get more reps in more of this if you're rehydrating. But then the other thing is like, would you? And how much mental toughness are you getting by not giving yourself water, right?

• 1:23:37Speaker 03

  It's a crutch.

• 1:23:37Joe Rogan?

  And the mental toughness thing ultimately won you this fight. There is a lot of fucking human beings at the top, top level of the sport that would have folded in that second round.

• 1:23:46Speaker 04

  You did look the happiest at the Tony Ferguson fight. That look you gave me.

• 1:23:49Speaker 03

  I never contemplated it, not once, not for one second. Did I contemplate that I was done?

• 1:23:54Joe Rogan?

  No, I mean, you, that's, that's how you fight.

• 1:23:57Speaker 03

  You hit me, I was like, oh, fuck!

• 1:24:02Speaker 03

  Oh, shit!

• 1:24:03Speaker 04

  Did you get to hear him in the corner? He goes, dude, that was a good body shot. I was like, yeah, that was a sweet body shot, dude. Who does that?

• 1:24:09Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 1:24:10Speaker 04

  Who sits down and is like, dude, the look on his face wasn't like, like eyebrows, like a, like a A-frame cabin.

• 1:24:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, even after the fight, you were talking about how skilled he was. You were, you were talking about it.

• 1:24:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean,

• 1:24:22Speaker 03

  I could go, I could go so many different ways with how I react to this fight. I just wanted to be known how disrespectful he would have been if he beat me. If he put me to sleep, if his, I mean, can you imagine how shitty he would have been? And, I mean, it would have, it would have, it was his persona and the world, the world would have been fucking shitty on me.

• 1:24:45Speaker 04

  Like they're doing to him right now.

• 1:24:46Speaker 03

  I was fighting for so much, I was fighting for so much that night. You know, I'm never gonna let people, for one, I know how special what I've done is, and it would have taken all of it away with the loss. And I wasn't gonna let that happen.

• 1:25:00Speaker 04

  How about the people calling him his loaded gloves? Did you see the picture, the, the, the image? There's like rocks in his hands?

• 1:25:05Joe Rogan?

  People are so stupid.

• 1:25:06Speaker 03

  What?

• 1:25:06Speaker 04

  So funny.

• 1:25:07Joe Rogan?

  People are so stupid.

• 1:25:07Speaker 03

  What a compliment.

• 1:25:08Speaker 04

  Have they not watched any of his fights?

• 1:25:10Speaker 03

  Yeah. People saying I'm juiced, what a compliment. People saying I got bricks in my fucking gloves, what a compliment.

• 1:25:18Joe Rogan?

  People are silly. You can't read the internet. There's always gonna be someone saying something.

• 1:25:21Speaker 03

  I know, but again, I got here because I was petty. I read comments. I read comments.

• 1:25:29Joe Rogan?

  They fuel you?

• 1:25:30Speaker 03

  They do.

• 1:25:30Speaker 04

  They do. I've talked to him. I've told him not to do it because I'm like, "Bro, this fucks with so many people." We had the conversation outside. It'll cause your mind to go crazy. And he's like, "I love it so much."

• 1:25:42Joe Rogan?

  David Goggins takes haters and he records them on a loop and then plays it to himself while he runs.

• 1:25:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, that's...

• 1:25:50Speaker 04

  It's crazy.

• 1:25:50Speaker 03

  I don't need to have it on video. I know.

• 1:25:54Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:25:55Speaker 03

  I know what they're saying. I knew what they were saying every fucking day.

• 1:25:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:25:58Speaker 03

  And that's, you know, partly why I won.

• 1:26:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's, you know, that Teddy Roosevelt quote about the man in the arena, you know?

• 1:26:06Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:26:07Joe Rogan?

  That's what it is. It's like, there's always gonna be people on the sidelines who are talking that shit.

• 1:26:10Speaker 03

  It's impossible to make...

• 1:26:12Speaker 04

  Especially at the level that you're fighting, Justin.

• 1:26:13Speaker 03

  As ambitious as you are, you can never make everybody happy.

• 1:26:16Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:26:16Speaker 04

  That's why it's hard to be a champion.

• 1:26:17Speaker 03

  Which sucks.

• 1:26:18Speaker 04

  The pressure.

• 1:26:19Speaker 03

  You know, it really is detrimental to like, overall, like, what you're trying to achieve. And it's just, it's so hard.

• 1:26:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, you can't make everybody happy because some people are just not happy, period. It's like, you being awesome is gonna make them happy. Yeah, but some people are not, they're not healthy. They're not mentally healthy. Their brain isn't right. They haven't done the right things in their life. And they see success as being somehow or another, it steals their own personal joy. Other people's success is bad because they compare themselves to other people and they realize that they suck.

• 1:26:53Speaker 03

  And I love seeing things hap- good things happen for people.

• 1:26:56Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 1:26:57Speaker 03

  Like, that's why when Max knocked me out, I was like, "Good for him." Like, I'm fucking imagining what he's feeling right now.

• 1:27:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but because you have given everything you have. You've truly maximized your potential. You've made mistakes. You've made great decisions. And ultimately, you wound up winning the biggest fight of all time.

• 1:27:15Speaker 03

  No, to exceed...

• 1:27:16Joe Rogan?

  But that's, that's why you can be happy for other people.

• 1:27:19Speaker 03

  To exceed your expectations from 2017, to exceed his expectations from 2011, to exceed my own expectations.

• 1:27:28Speaker 03

  Is, I mean, I cannot describe how special and how good that makes me feel. You know, in general. Like, that was my goal.

• 1:27:36Joe Rogan?

  My expectations of you, you didn't exceed them, man. You, you, I always had a feeling that you were gonna do some wild shit. And after the Tony Ferguson.

• 1:27:44Speaker 03

  You couldn't have said I was gonna do this.

• 1:27:46Speaker 04

  No, no one could have frickin' said this, dude.

• 1:27:48Joe Rogan?

  There was a lot of conversations that I had with people that were counting you out. Those were like, I don't thi- I think he can win this fight 100%. I mean, I said it on the podcast. I even said it to Ilya, like, Ilya was saying it was gonna be easy.

• 1:27:59Speaker 03

  I've seen that podcast, and he was so wrong. So many times. You know, not just the whole, he has zero chance against Patty. He said something about how I probably sleep during the day more than I do at night because I party too much. And it's like, you were so, you don't remember him saying that? He said, he said something about weed, and you're like, I don't care about weed. But for him to think that that's true is fucking insane.

• 1:28:24Speaker 04

  And you have five lucids?

• 1:28:27Joe Rogan?

  That's just.

• 1:28:28Speaker 04

  Dude, now he's got one lucid, he's gonna have to learn how to deal with that.

• 1:28:31Speaker 03

  I was like, wow, what a fucking idiot. You know, like, to, to think that I got here by just being a, a, a guy that drinks and, you know, has fun all the time, like, that's fucking crazy. My life is so boring. I don't go to bars. I, I mean, I don't do any of that. I sleep, I sleep eight to 10 hours every single night. I will sleep in 10, but it's too much, so now I have to sleep eight. But for this whole week, I was sleeping 12 hours. Every single night of the, of the fight week.

• 1:29:02Joe Rogan?

  That's nice.

• 1:29:02Speaker 03

  It was so fucking nice.

• 1:29:04Joe Rogan?

  That is nice. You know, it's just one of those things, if he wanted to watch your, you have a YouTube channel. He could watch.

• 1:29:09Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, it's also something to be said about how I knew he was watching. If you go back to my other, like, we'll always show sparring, we'll always show me hitting mitts. I didn't show myself hitting mitts one time this camp. I didn't show myself sparring one time this camp.

• 1:29:23Speaker 04

  Purposely. Because we were switching up the game plan big time, like, the tight punches, high hands.

• 1:29:27Speaker 03

  He had, he had expectations, but they were, none of them were based in reality. And I controlled that.

• 1:29:34Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome.

• 1:29:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then, you know, when I did make the, when I did make the, um, comment about his wife, you know, it was in a, um... In an interview like this where we're just fucking around and I said it in jest, I didn't, it was 100% true. I was like, he's so fucking annoying, I couldn't imagine being in the same room with him, you know? With his pompous attitude, you know, and you just trying to like, hang out with the guy, but he's like constantly stealing all the thunder and it's irrational. And it's like, I would leave him too, like.

• 1:30:12Speaker 03

  I mean, if that's my part, like that's why I broke up with my girlfriends is because they were somewhat like that.

• 1:30:19Speaker 03

  And so I didn't mean it in a mean way, like I would never dig at somebody and I would never make fun of someone's personal experience. But that was like, that was just my honest take.

• 1:30:29Speaker 04

  You are the honest guy.

• 1:30:30Speaker 03

  And I was joking, but, but it was true.

• 1:30:33Speaker 04

  You just say what you feel.

• 1:30:34Speaker 03

  I said so many true things to him. I said the, so many, I told him that he's gonna go to the second round, go to the third round, you're gonna be fucked. Because you're not gonna be able to pull yourself out of this, you know, with the way that you're thinking. There's no possible way you can have these expectations, face adversity and then come out in a positive way. There's no way it could happen. You could dig deep and you could be even more of a narcissist and it might work. But you, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna walk yourself into a situation that is gonna fucking be detrimental to you. And this is detrimental to his psyche and this is 90% mental. And so again, I want to see him, I hope that things.

• 1:31:14Joe Rogan?

  We'll see how he adjusts to the loss, but.

• 1:31:17Speaker 03

  We'll see how honest he will be with himself.

• 1:31:19Joe Rogan?

  The strategy has to change. You can't just hit the gas like that. And we've seen that with boxers, we've seen that with all kinds of fighters. They just think they can just hit the gas. Well, obviously you had to make your own adjustments.

• 1:31:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:33Speaker 04

  You know how he overcame the, the Max fight?

• 1:31:35Joe Rogan?

  How?

• 1:31:35Speaker 04

  He adjusted.

• 1:31:40Speaker 04

  But can you guys double the songs?

• 1:31:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, didn't you play golf every day for a year?

• 1:31:43Speaker 03

  Six months straight.

• 1:31:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:31:45Speaker 04

  Everyday dude, this guy got really good.

• 1:31:47Joe Rogan?

  Obviously, yeah, DC was raving about it. He's like, I've never seen anything like it. He goes, this guy's playing golf like he's been playing for years.

• 1:31:54Speaker 04

  That's crazy.

• 1:31:55Joe Rogan?

  It's really, really funny. It's, well, you know, that's the mindset that's coachable. That's a coachable mindset, competitive and also objective. You know, it's the same reason why you think you're not athletic. It's like you can look at yourself in a critical way and then see what adjustments you have to make. Where a lot of people are delusional.

• 1:32:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:32:14Joe Rogan?

  And that delusional keeps you from getting good at everything in life.

• 1:32:18Speaker 04

  You do what you perceive? Dude, you gotta, perspective is everything. Like, how are you seeing things? And you always gotta see it from the internal, not, not, peaks and valleys like this right here. Like, we come home and even through the airport, we're like, there's no celebration. I can see, it is what it is. I mean, afterwards, like, peaks, peaks will kill you.

• 1:32:34Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy, there's no celebration at the airport?

• 1:32:35Speaker 04

  What we did, someone was buying us drinks. Like, we got there, we got there a little bit early.

• 1:32:39Joe Rogan?

  It should've been a fucking parade.

• 1:32:41Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:32:41Speaker 03

  I know, but I don't want that.

• 1:32:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know. I know you don't.

• 1:32:45Speaker 03

  I don't want that.

• 1:32:46Joe Rogan?

  You don't.

• 1:32:46Speaker 04

  Just like you said, he's no different after.

• 1:32:48Speaker 03

  But I have to do it because I do need to take advantage. Like, I am the champion, it's crazy, still can't fathom it. But I am the champion and I need to, I need to be the champion.

• 1:32:58Speaker 04

  Be you?

• 1:32:59Speaker 03

  And be the, enjoy being the champion for a little bit.

• 1:33:02Speaker 04

  And you need to look at yourself in the mirror and be, like, there's times to sit back and have bliss. Where you're like, man, I freaking did it. Like, there's times to really, really be.

• 1:33:11Speaker 03

  I thought that would come natural.

• 1:33:12Speaker 04

  Doesn't mean you run down fucking yelling out different brands of mayonnaise with no motherfucking clothes on and make bad decisions. You're like, what was that for? Oh shit, dude, we did fucking three fists of fucking vodka.

• 1:33:22Joe Rogan?

  Um, are you gonna continue fighting?

• 1:33:25Speaker 03

  Right now, I am planning on it.

• 1:33:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah? Cause you were talking about going out with that fight.

• 1:33:30Speaker 03

  Again, there's not, there's not something natural in me that feels like it's over.

• 1:33:34Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:33:35Speaker 03

  So, that's all I can say.

• 1:33:36Joe Rogan?

  Also, after a performance like that.

• 1:33:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I'm obviously performing the best.

• 1:33:41Speaker 04

  Either way, though.

• 1:33:42Joe Rogan?

  Also capitalize, because the financial reward.

• 1:33:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I'm in a, I'm in a place where it's like, I deserve to be compensated for what I have done.

• 1:33:52Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 1:33:52Speaker 03

  Not for what I'm going to do, or I don't, I shouldn't have to fight next to be, UFC 300, UFC 324, and now this. Those are the biggest stages that the UFC needed somebody to, to do something phenomenal. And they picked me every single time, and, and I delivered. I wasn't the main event of UFC 300, but co-main event, still stole the show, even though I lost. And so, I think I, I need to be compensated for, for what I've done. That's where I'm at.

• 1:34:23Joe Rogan?

  So you're talking about in the future, for like a next fight?

• 1:34:26Speaker 03

  Like...

• 1:34:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, renegotiation, my friend.

• 1:34:29Speaker 03

  No, no, no, I'm not talking about for the next fight. I'm talking about, the UFC should make a company and give me equity in that company, and, you know, so I can build passive income like that. Like, I'm not saying that's what...

• 1:34:42Joe Rogan?

  Have you talked to them about something like that?

• 1:34:43Speaker 03

  No, no, I would, I would, I've never asked, luckily I have a personal assistant now, so she asks for things for me, but I've never been the guy that asks for things. I wish, I wish people that were opposite of me that asked for things and get all kinds of things, I wish I was given those things without asking. Because obviously, people know that it's appreciated, and I like it, but I'm not ever gonna, like, I'm not taking this truck from fucking Armin. There's absolutely no way I would take a truck. He never shook my hand.

• 1:35:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, this is Armin Sarjukian. We should explain that. So, Armin Sarjukian, he, he bet a million dollars on Justin.

• 1:35:18Speaker 03

  His friend.

• 1:35:18Joe Rogan?

  And won. He won like 5-3, I believe.

• 1:35:22Speaker 04

  5-7.

• 1:35:22Joe Rogan?

  5-7?

• 1:35:23Speaker 04

  That's what I heard.

• 1:35:23Joe Rogan?

  5-7?

• 1:35:24Speaker 03

  Says he's gonna buy me a truck, but I mean, I would never...

• 1:35:26Joe Rogan?

  What kind of truck?

• 1:35:28Speaker 03

  Well, now I just saw yours.

• 1:35:30Joe Rogan?

  Get a Raptor.

• 1:35:31Speaker 03

  I have a Shelby, I have a Shelby Raptor.

• 1:35:33Joe Rogan?

  Those are pretty dope, those are dope.

• 1:35:35Speaker 03

  But I, I think now that I've seen your truck, that will be my next truck.

• 1:35:38Joe Rogan?

  Also, it has USA on the side.

• 1:35:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:40Joe Rogan?

  You see the rap?

• 1:35:41Speaker 03

  I love USA rap.

• 1:35:42Speaker 04

  You didn't do that rap?

• 1:35:42Joe Rogan?

  Uh-uh.

• 1:35:43Speaker 04

  Dude, that is sweet, dude.

• 1:35:44Joe Rogan?

  Hennessy's the shit.

• 1:35:45Speaker 03

  No, I want that truck.

• 1:35:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you need that truck.

• 1:35:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:47Joe Rogan?

  Tell Armin to buy you that fucking truck.

• 1:35:49Speaker 03

  No, I'm not taking that truck with me.

• 1:35:50Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck, if I was Armin, I would force it down your throat. I would, I would deliver it to your house and give you a hug.

• 1:35:55Speaker 03

  No way.

• 1:35:55Joe Rogan?

  You won him five million, seven hundred thousand dollars!

• 1:35:58Speaker 03

  I didn't have to ride around in a fucking truck that a dude bought from me every day. I don't know, I just can't go there.

• 1:36:03Joe Rogan?

  You won that truck.

• 1:36:04Speaker 03

  We didn't shake on it. He does not owe it to me.

• 1:36:06Joe Rogan?

  I don't give a fuck. Take that goddamn truck.

• 1:36:08Speaker 04

  I'm right there with you, Joe.

• 1:36:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, take the truck, dude. It's, first of all, it's cool.

• 1:36:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:36:13Joe Rogan?

  And he might also be your next opponent.

• 1:36:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:36:16Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that's possible.

• 1:36:18Speaker 03

  That's possible, yeah.

• 1:36:18Joe Rogan?

  That's the guy. I mean, he's the guy.

• 1:36:20Speaker 03

  He is definitely the guy that's up.

• 1:36:21Joe Rogan?

  That's the guy. I mean, if there's anybody else in the division, that, that is the guy. I mean, now that Islam is up at 170, who else is there? That's the guy.

• 1:36:29Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 1:36:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and what a division. I mean, holy shit. And now Charles is saying he wants to...

• 1:36:35Speaker 03

  It's been that.

• 1:36:36Joe Rogan?

  He wants to fight you, BMF.

• 1:36:38Speaker 03

  This fucking division has been...

• 1:36:39Joe Rogan?

  BMF and, and the lightweight title on the line, that would be crazy. So there's fights available.

• 1:36:44Speaker 03

  Yes, there is.

• 1:36:45Joe Rogan?

  Big, big. What do you, what are your thoughts? Like, when you're thinking about competing, who do you think it will be? You think it'll be Armin?

• 1:36:51Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:36:52Joe Rogan?

  No?

• 1:36:53Speaker 03

  I, I, I can't say that I have a name.

• 1:36:56Joe Rogan?

  You think Eli's gonna try for a rematch?

• 1:36:58Speaker 03

  No, he doesn't get a rematch. He can try, but he doesn't get one.

• 1:37:01Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:37:02Speaker 03

  He quit on the stool. He quit twice. I stopped him twice. What else do I have to fucking do? Plus, his next challenge can't be me. He needs to fight Patty or someone like that.

• 1:37:13Joe Rogan?

  Is, does Patty have a fight scheduled?

• 1:37:14Speaker 04

  I think he's fighting, uh...

• 1:37:16Speaker 03

  Saint, Saint Denis?

• 1:37:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:37:17Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, that's a tough fight.

• 1:37:18Speaker 04

  It is.

• 1:37:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:37:19Joe Rogan?

  Benoit's a beast.

• 1:37:20Speaker 03

  It's a tough game. It's a fucking crazy game, man.

• 1:37:22Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:06Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:46Joe Rogan?

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• 1:39:02Speaker 03

  By far.

• 1:39:03Joe Rogan?

  Think about where you were when you lost to Max and then where you are now. Just like think of the highs and lows.

• 1:39:09Speaker 03

  Wasn't that long ago either.

• 1:39:09Joe Rogan?

  Was not that long ago.

• 1:39:11Speaker 04

  Now you got the BMF champ wanting to fight you.

• 1:39:15Speaker 03

  I have every belt.

• 1:39:16Speaker 04

  Like.

• 1:39:17Speaker 03

  I have three, three belts, three real belts, two interim's, but those are fucking real belts. A real belt, the BMF belt and then the UFC 250 belt.

• 1:39:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the UFC 250 belt.

• 1:39:28Speaker 04

  That's so cool, dude.

• 1:39:29Joe Rogan?

  There's only two of those out there.

• 1:39:31Speaker 04

  It's so heavy. That shit is freaking heavy.

• 1:39:33Speaker 03

  Being a fan of this sport, like what you want to come in here and do things that are not easily attainable. And I've done a few things that are impossible to obtain, attain. Nine bonuses in my first seven fights.

• 1:39:47Speaker 03

  16 fights in the UFC, I probably what like 12 main events?

• 1:39:51Speaker 04

  Yeah. And 17 bonuses in 16 fights?

• 1:39:53Speaker 03

  And to be put in the main event of a UFC fight is fucking huge. Like, you know, you go on the poster. Not many people get to experience that and I've done it almost every single time. And so, I mean, yeah, I mean, I've done something unattainable.

• 1:40:08Joe Rogan?

  It's gotta feel good.

• 1:40:09Speaker 03

  It feels great.

• 1:40:11Joe Rogan?

  It should. As a fan, it's awesome to have guys like you out there.

• 1:40:15Speaker 03

  As a fan, it feels good.

• 1:40:17Joe Rogan?

  Right, as a fan of yourself.

• 1:40:18Speaker 03

  As a fan of the sport.

• 1:40:20Joe Rogan?

  As a fan of the sport, getting to see what you've done.

• 1:40:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:23Joe Rogan?

  What did you think about Cyril Gahn?

• 1:40:24Speaker 03

  We didn't do so.

• 1:40:25Speaker 04

  We didn't get to see it.

• 1:40:26Joe Rogan?

  Didn't see it?

• 1:40:26Speaker 03

  We were in the locker room like, are you guys are gonna go to a different staging room as soon as Bruce Buffer starts announcing? So they took us into a room with no screens. That's probably where the video of me shadow boxing with the flag.

• 1:40:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:40Speaker 03

  That's where, so we were in there, we were in there for like 30 minutes before I walked. And we could hear, you know, you.

• 1:40:46Speaker 04

  A little bit.

• 1:40:47Speaker 03

  You hear the, I heard the ding of the, you know, the end of the round of the horn. I was like, okay, was that round one? Yes. And then you hear nothing and then, I didn't even hear the finish. Like, I didn't hear the crowd roar or anything.

• 1:40:57Speaker 04

  Couldn't hear the crowd.

• 1:40:57Speaker 03

  And then I heard, "And still."

• 1:41:01Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:41:02Speaker 03

  Right?

• 1:41:02Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:41:02Speaker 03

  Cause he was.

• 1:41:03Speaker 04

  No, no, no, they said "and new" cause they were both gonna be new.

• 1:41:06Speaker 03

  I thought I heard "and still."

• 1:41:07Speaker 04

  They said, "I heard Gahn." We heard "Gahn."

• 1:41:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, they heard "Gahn," I was like, oh, fuck, he won.

• 1:41:12Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that guy moves like a cat.

• 1:41:14Speaker 04

  That's, it's crazy. He, for a heavyweight, I love watching heavyweights that can move. Like, they, remember the Mike Tyson era? Just watching, I was, I love Mike, watching Mike Tyson and just watching all the guys he fought. Heavyweight boxing was so good at that time. People used to jump rope. Now it's like, like, I'm not gonna say that, that all, uh, heavyweights are, are lazy, but, you know, my knees are bad, I'm a big person. Like, those guys can move and Cyril Gahn is one of those guys.

• 1:41:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's the most.

• 1:41:39Speaker 04

  So fast and.

• 1:41:41Joe Rogan?

  The thing about him is he started out as a basketball player. So think about basketball, it's all these plyometrics. They're constantly changing direction and moving and jumping.

• 1:41:49Speaker 03

  Agility.

• 1:41:50Joe Rogan?

  Yes, it's all agility and that translates so brilliantly to his striking style because you got a guy who's 240 8 pounds who moves like a middleweight or moves like even lighter than that. I mean, it really moves like a Walter weight almost. He's fast. And just very agile. And when you notice it is like, cause you know how good Pereira is and Pereira getting lit up on his feet like that and then drop with a jab. It's like, woo.

• 1:42:13Speaker 04

  Yeah. Perfect time. And it's heavyweights, like those are big dudes.

• 1:42:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:16Speaker 04

  It like, obviously Pereira's put on some weight, but it's frame size.

• 1:42:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:21Speaker 04

  It's, you know, and Pereira's got a big frame, but it's.

• 1:42:25Joe Rogan?

  There's levels.

• 1:42:25Speaker 04

  Your, your body's been that weight for a long period of time. Like it's again, that consistency. It's, it's, it's MMA guy going into boxing. You're, yeah, there's shorter rounds, but you're hitting sprints every round. Like it's a different, like there's, there's, you have to do it for a period of time to be able to adjust to that. That's a different. It's everything that you do, you have to slowly go into those positions. You can't just jump into it.

• 1:42:45Joe Rogan?

  And when you think about how big he was at 205, it maybe would have even been better for him to not really put on much weight.

• 1:42:52Speaker 04

  I agree. 100%.

• 1:42:54Joe Rogan?

  Cause it's not like Cyril Gahn's a grappler.

• 1:42:56Speaker 04

  And you gotta be fast.

• 1:42:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you gotta be fast.

• 1:42:58Speaker 04

  Like your speed's a factor.

• 1:42:59Joe Rogan?

  It's a giant factor and he's got insane power. I mean, his power's always been heavyweight level power.

• 1:43:04Speaker 04

  Absolutely. He's not gonna lose his power.

• 1:43:06Joe Rogan?

  Cause he was so big, he was 251 and I was thinking, man, now it's like, even though you have more power, you're also moving around with extra weight on your body. Like you're, you're weighed down more by gravity. I mean, Gahn looked so light and so loose. He's just like, that style for a heavyweight, light on the toes like that is so unusual.

• 1:43:28Speaker 04

  And not allowing Pereira to set his feet.

• 1:43:31Joe Rogan?

  No, never.

• 1:43:32Speaker 04

  Like that's very smart.

• 1:43:33Joe Rogan?

  And even like feigning takedowns, it's not like he committed to those, but he's got them thinking about, look at him drops them with the fucking jab. Now here's the question because one of the things that Pereira is saying is a lot of, there's an illegal shot. A lot of the shots were illegal into the back of the head, but a lot of them were to the side of the head.

• 1:43:50Speaker 04

  They're close. Cause it, the first one.

• 1:43:52Speaker 03

  When they, when they explain it to you, it's.

• 1:43:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's a two inch line down like a mohawk.

• 1:44:00Speaker 03

  This whole, this whole apron right here, but it's like, this is legal, this is legal.

• 1:44:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:06Speaker 03

  This is legal, this is illegal. Legal, illegal.

• 1:44:08Joe Rogan?

  I mean, a couple of those shots definitely landed illegally, but there's also movement.

• 1:44:14Speaker 04

  That first one, did you see him drop his head down to the hips?

• 1:44:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, exactly, exactly.

• 1:44:17Speaker 04

  So you're moving, you know.

• 1:44:18Speaker 03

  That's legal, that's illegal.

• 1:44:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's a couple illegal ones.

• 1:44:22Speaker 03

  There's probably three or four.

• 1:44:24Joe Rogan?

  Right, but it's also movement and chaos. It's not like he's trying deliberately.

• 1:44:29Speaker 03

  That's like poking someone in the eye on purpose. Like if I was that good, I would touch their chin.

• 1:44:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:44:34Speaker 04

  How was the fight stopped?

• 1:44:35Speaker 03

  That's a lot smaller target.

• 1:44:36Speaker 04

  Was the fight stopped there on the ground?

• 1:44:38Joe Rogan?

  No, no, it kept going. This is actually the finish of the fight right here.

• 1:44:41Speaker 04

  Okay, that was a finish.

• 1:44:42Joe Rogan?

  He caught him with a big elbow right here and rocked him. I mean, Pereira was in real trouble.

• 1:44:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:44:47Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it was, he got fucked up.

• 1:44:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:44:49Joe Rogan?

  And Cyril Gahn did a fantastic job. He really put it on him.

• 1:44:53Speaker 03

  Should you ever stop a championship fight on the feet?

• 1:44:58Joe Rogan?

  That was it right there.

• 1:44:59Speaker 04

  I would have.

• 1:45:00Joe Rogan?

  At that point, yeah, that was a good stoppage.

• 1:45:03Speaker 03

  I haven't watched the fight, so.

• 1:45:04Joe Rogan?

  Here's the stoppage right here, you can see it.

• 1:45:05Speaker 04

  I haven't either and I'm just watching this. Yeah, that's, like he fell with his hands on his hips.

• 1:45:10Joe Rogan?

  It was so many blows. Maybe he could have taken one or two more after that, for sure, but Pereira is pissed off at Herb Dean, and he's saying Herb Dean should never referee again because he allowed those shots to the back of the head.

• 1:45:23Speaker 04

  I mean, you're in the moment. I mean, but that's natural for a fighter to do. Like, again, if you're in a situation, you want to, first off, you've got to bring awareness to it, so they're not, you know, you have to always be aware of, hey, I could have did better here. Because that's how we all grow, so we need to do, need to talk about it. But from what I just watched there, and I haven't watched the whole fight, was the fight competitive at all?

• 1:45:42Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:45:43Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:45:43Joe Rogan?

  The first round was very competitive.

• 1:45:45Speaker 04

  So that would change a little thing, but from what I just watched right there at the end, that was, that looked like a good finish to me.

• 1:45:50Speaker 03

  The refs have such a tough job. I've been, I'm notorious for being really hard on these refs, because...

• 1:45:59Speaker 03

  I mean, it's, they, you expect them to be, you need them to be perfect. Their, their main job is to protect you. Uh, when I fought Michael Chandler, I'm still, and again, I only speak about it now because I've never had a retraction from the referee. Whenever he poked me in the eye, and then he didn't get in between us and he let him hit me with a huge shot. And then, he doesn't give me my time to rest, not rest, to recover. And there was only five seconds left in the round, so it turned out that I got a break anyways. But he goes in there, he says, "Are you good?" I said, "No, I'm not good." He just poked me in the fucking eye. And he says, "Okay, but are you good?"

• 1:46:42Speaker 03

  And so then it's like, can I still fight? So then I said, "Yeah, I'm good." And he says, "Okay, go."

• 1:46:48Joe Rogan?

  Who, what referee was this?

• 1:46:49Speaker 04

  The guy with the braid that he puts in his thing?

• 1:46:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Mike Beltran?

• 1:46:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, Mike Beltran. And so, I was very upset that he let Michael Chandler land that, that shot. And I, I know why. He was so scared of the fucking heat we were throwing, that he didn't want to jump in there and get in the middle of it. But his job is to protect me. And he failed. He failed so bad right there. And so like, after the fact, I was like, "I need you to acknowledge this so that you do not ever let that happen to another athlete in there, because you fucked up so bad." And, you know, he's trying to justify it. And then it's like, "What the fuck are you doing? How can you justify this?" And so that, for me, that, that pisses me off. And then the, the decision not to give me my time, like, I need an explanation.

• 1:47:35Speaker 03

  You know, and, because I need to know that you are gonna learn from this experience. And for right now, I still believe that he doesn't think he did anything wrong. And so I'm still upset about that.

• 1:47:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, once you say to someone-

• 1:47:46Speaker 03

  Because we're petty, we're petty, you know?

• 1:47:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, you should be, in that situation. Because when you say to someone, "You got poked in the eye, are you good?" And you're like, "Yeah, I'm good, but I got poked in the fucking eye." And then, you're supposed to say-

• 1:47:58Speaker 03

  One or two seconds. One or two seconds, "But are you good?" I said, "Well, yeah, I'm good." He says, "Okay, go."

• 1:48:03Joe Rogan?

  "Are you good" is not the right question. You have five minutes. Are you ready to fight? Can you see, do you need to bring in a doctor? There's a series of questions. But the, you have five minutes. It's very important. For a fighter getting poked in the eye, you have five minutes to recover.

• 1:48:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I didn't feel like, I didn't know. I didn't know at the point. I was, I feel pressure in my face right now. Like, I don't, this feels

• 1:48:26Joe Rogan?

  You're not gonna know for a couple of seconds.

• 1:48:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:48:28Joe Rogan?

  You're gonna blink a little bit, move around a little bit. Alright, I'm good. And that's when you're, it's supposed to be very clear. That's when you're ready to reengage.

• 1:48:37Speaker 03

  And that's what I'm saying. That's the mistake he has to learn from. Cause it was such a, and after the round ends, I walk over to him, I'm like, dude, get your fucking head out of your ass. What the fuck are you doing? He's like, go to your stool. I was like, no, what the fuck are you doing? Like, your job is to protect me. You just let me get hit with a huge fucking shot. What is going on? And he's like, go to your stool, go to your stool. And I sit down and then boom, never thought about it again, but still pissed off about that one.

• 1:49:02Joe Rogan?

  You should be. I mean, that's, that makes sense. I mean, that's a mistake.

• 1:49:07Speaker 03

  Who's the ref that, against Khabib? After the fight, he corners me in the hallway. And he's like, ah, you know, I know you, I know you would never, never tap. I was like, I tapped three times. He's like, no, you would never tap. I'm like, I'm like, dude, from the horse's mouth, I'm telling you, I tapped. And he still was like, no, no, you wouldn't tap. I was like, what the fuck? How can we get through this? Like, I tapped three times, I went to sleep.

• 1:49:35Joe Rogan?

  And you went to sleep. I've seen that.

• 1:49:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, I tapped three times.

• 1:49:38Joe Rogan?

  100% you tapped.

• 1:49:39Speaker 03

  100%. And he's like, no, you would, you know, I know that you, with your, the way that you compete.

• 1:49:44Joe Rogan?

  Who was the referee?

• 1:49:45Speaker 04

  What's that guy's name?

• 1:49:46Speaker 03

  I hate to, I don't even want to throw Herzog. I don't even want to throw him under the bus, you know? Because it's like, his intentions, his intentions were good for me. You know, he believed I was

• 1:49:56Joe Rogan?

  He gave you a chance.

• 1:49:57Speaker 03

  Gave me a chance, but like, I fucking tapped, man, like I did.

• 1:50:00Joe Rogan?

  And the fight should have been stopped.

• 1:50:01Speaker 03

  And I went to sleep because of it. And luckily, there's no detrimental and chronic, you know, long-lasting problems because of getting choked out. So, I mean, there's no repercussions. Yeah, there's no concussion, there's no TBI. Like, it really is not detrimental at all. As long as you don't hold it too long and I die, as long as I wake up, I'm good.

• 1:50:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:50:21Speaker 03

  And so, I was like, okay, like, the repercussions aren't as severe. And so, like, whatever, I'll just let this go. But ultimately, he

• 1:50:31Speaker 03

  Did it, I mean, I was telling, even when I told him, he didn't believe me.

• 1:50:33Speaker 04

  That was the first thing you said when you jumped up, you went over to him. And then you guys had the conversation afterwards, but you went over to him saying, dude, what the fuck, I tapped.

• 1:50:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, dude.

• 1:50:41Speaker 04

  And he's like, no, you didn't. Then we see him later, but that was the first thing you said.

• 1:50:44Speaker 03

  No, I was like, dude, I tapped three times. I tapped three fucking times.

• 1:50:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was pretty obvious. Give them right mistakes and they don't see things too.

• 1:50:51Speaker 03

  And everyone was like, oh, you said, you know, you're some kind of fucking, you think you're some kind of Superman, why would you tap? It's like, when your life is ending, you know, you're a fool if you don't understand that. Like, I knew I was dying. And that's just where I was.

• 1:51:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:05Speaker 04

  So that's how crazy you are to everybody. He's at their eyes, they're like, no, dude. Like, I know you better than you do. You never tap. Like, you kind of fight like that.

• 1:51:13Speaker 03

  That's what I mean. People think, the best,

• 1:51:16Speaker 04

  That's how he perceived it.

• 1:51:16Speaker 03

  The best thing up to this moment is people, people don't give me credit for my intellectual abilities. And I've also played into that. And I've also understood how big of an asset it is for people to approach me like that. You know, thinking that I'm just some animal that doesn't think or feel or whatever, whatever people think, or think I'm retarded.

• 1:51:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think what it is, is when you are such an animal, people think you can't be smart. Because a smart person would be aware of the consequences and wouldn't have the courage to fight the way you fight. That's all it is. And they, and people who don't have that kind of courage, they like to dismiss people that fight like savages because they go, well, savages can't be smart. That's not right. That's not correct. People, it's like, you see a really hot woman, you go, ah, she's gotta be a retard.

• 1:52:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52:05Joe Rogan?

  Like, no, some of them are really fucking smart and also hot. You know, like, the world is confusing. And you can't categorize people and put them into things, little, little, uh, you know, little fucking boxes just to make you feel better.

• 1:52:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:19Joe Rogan?

  That's all it is, you know? And you're...

• 1:52:22Speaker 03

  And the thing is, I never signed up, like, when we were walking out to the, the press conferences, like, 12, 15,000 people out there. I look at the guys, like, dude, I never, ever signed up to be a public speaker. What the fuck are we doing here? Like, I never wanted to be in this, where I talk in front of this many people. Like, that's not what I prepared myself for, ever. And now I'm in this situation where I have to, you know, every single word I get, I say before these fights is analyzed by the world. Like, the whole, you know, my father is my dad, like...

• 1:52:54Speaker 03

  Sometimes I get tongue tied.

• 1:52:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52:56Speaker 03

  Sometimes I misspeak.

• 1:52:58Joe Rogan?

  I do too, and I talk for a living.

• 1:53:00Speaker 03

  That's what I mean.

• 1:53:00Speaker 04

  It's fucking normal.

• 1:53:01Speaker 03

  But nobody, if people had to listen to themselves, they would understand that they also make mistakes. And so it's like, fuck, man, like, I can't be perfect. I'm sorry. I really wish. I didn't mean my dad was my father, even though, you know, it fucking makes sense and it's true.

• 1:53:19Joe Rogan?

  Listen, you're dealing with a bunch of people that have to write stories.

• 1:53:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, they have to.

• 1:53:23Joe Rogan?

  It's not, it's not about writing a story because something is interesting. They have to make a story, no matter what it is. Their, their, their job is to create content. And when you, your job is to create content, you make content out of nothing. And it's not usually, it's usually not good. And that's what they're doing.

• 1:53:40Speaker 03

  If I could have, if I could have been mentally coached, it would have been in that aspect.

• 1:53:45Joe Rogan?

  Public speaking?

• 1:53:46Speaker 03

  Just like.

• 1:53:47Speaker 04

  I think you speak very well.

• 1:53:49Speaker 03

  No, no, it's like, uh, I just, I guess there's no lesson to learn. Like, you just have to do it. It's through experience.

• 1:53:55Joe Rogan?

  It's like fighting. You just do it a bunch of times and you get comfortable with it. Or you're naturally talented, like Connor. You know, who the fuck is that guy?

• 1:54:02Speaker 03

  Oh, smart guy.

• 1:54:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He's great at that. Like, he's fantastic at that shit. I mean, that's where he shines.

• 1:54:07Speaker 04

  You ain't lying. You are like Tom Petty. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. You are petty. Dude, who cares what people think?

• 1:54:14Speaker 03

  No, I know.

• 1:54:15Joe Rogan?

  I think he speaks great, right?

• 1:54:16Speaker 03

  I like, you know, I like to see what people are saying about my, our interview and the, you know, because I want to see the perception. I want to.

• 1:54:24Speaker 04

  Just keep inspiring.

• 1:54:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but the thing is, you're asking for the perceptions from people that you would probably never fucking talk to in real life. Because they're dumb and annoying.

• 1:54:33Speaker 04

  Well, you don't want to know their shit.

• 1:54:35Joe Rogan?

  And those are the people that are most likely gonna comment. The people that are most likely gonna, you think Michael Jordan's out there leaving YouTube comments? No, right? It's not people that have their fucking shit together and have big goals.

• 1:54:44Speaker 04

  100%.

• 1:54:44Joe Rogan?

  People who are really dialed in and really fucking disciplined. And the people whose opinions you'd respect, they're not leaving comments. They're certainly not leaving shitty comments.

• 1:54:54Speaker 04

  You nailed that, that's...

• 1:54:55Joe Rogan?

  Just the reality, and I'm not hating on these people, I'm just saying like, I would have been one of them. If you, if somebody gave me a fucking YouTube account when I was 17, I'd be posting the most horrible shit about everybody. Right? Everybody would. You're a kid, or you're a dumbass, you don't have your life together yet, but that's the type... You can't listen to them and take that as gospel, because it's just not.

• 1:55:16Speaker 04

  Just seeing him walk through the airport, and just, everybody's perception when they see you and meet you is so great, dude. Like, it's, like, people that, like, like...

• 1:55:25Joe Rogan?

  Bro, the haters! If the haters met you, they're like, "Bro, I'm a big fan."

• 1:55:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, but still, but it's, but one of those things is like, the inspiration on people like, everybody comes up and they're like, "Your favorite fighter." Like, have the brand that you're the, your favorite fighter, favorite fighter. Like, that is unique.

• 1:55:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:41Speaker 04

  That is like, such a cool thing, like, you just keep inspiring and be you.

• 1:55:46Joe Rogan?

  You should be.

• 1:55:48Speaker 04

  Should be so proud.

• 1:55:49Joe Rogan?

  You should be.

• 1:55:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:55:50Joe Rogan?

  So, um, I asked you after the fight if you were gonna fight again, and you said you promised your mom you weren't gonna make a decision. And so, it just settled in, I mean, we're, today, we're here, it's Friday, the fight was just Sunday, so it was five days ago. So now, you're just like, fuck, you can't, how do you not, after that? I mean, you're the fucking champ. It'd be great to go out like that, it'd be the, an amazing cap, but also, great to have at least one more.

• 1:56:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. We'll see.

• 1:56:19Speaker 04

  People like to watch chaos. It's the highest level of controlled chaos.

• 1:56:24Joe Rogan?

  You know, it'll never be that chaos again, because it'll never be like...

• 1:56:28Speaker 03

  It's hard to understand how...

• 1:56:29Joe Rogan?

  Fighter jet flyovers and...

• 1:56:30Speaker 03

  It's hard to understand how dangerous this game is if you don't do it.

• 1:56:33Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:56:34Speaker 03

  And so...

• 1:56:35Joe Rogan?

  It's impossible.

• 1:56:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:37Speaker 03

  So that'll be a huge, it's a huge fact. There's a lot, there's a lot of variables that I have to contemplate when it comes to that decision.

• 1:56:47Joe Rogan?

  Do you have a timeline in your head?

• 1:56:49Speaker 03

  I do know, so, you can't remember a time I fought two times in six months in the UFC. I fought two times this year already, in less than six months, and, so I'm gonna take the rest of the year. I need my body to heal, then, I, I mean, I have... What's the fucking diagnosis? I have a severe bone endema in the tip of my fibula that happened on Christmas. And I have been dealing with that since Christmas Day.

• 1:57:19Joe Rogan?

  So a bone bleed, like a bruised bone?

• 1:57:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's in the bone marrow of the tip of my fibula. Tip of my tibial clacked against my femur. And it caused a hu- a deep, deep bruise and I cannot get it to heal because I went, you know, I was going through training camp. It really hurt after the patty fight.

• 1:57:37Joe Rogan?

  When are you leaving? When are you leaving today?

• 1:57:40Speaker 03

  We fly out at like 6:30?

• 1:57:43Joe Rogan?

  It's 3 o'clock. I want to see if I can get you into Waste Well. Let me text Brigham and see if they could jab some fucking stem cells in there before you leave.

• 1:57:51Speaker 03

  I've gone to Vegas, I've got stem cells multiple times. I got PRP.

• 1:57:55Joe Rogan?

  Pretty special place.

• 1:57:56Speaker 03

  PRP put me on crutches, it was crazy. And then I did a corisonal shot on the Friday before I left.

• 1:58:03Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:58:03Speaker 03

  And that, that helped a lot.

• 1:58:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, not training is really what it needs, right? And you've been doing any hyperbaric chamber stuff?

• 1:58:11Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:58:11Joe Rogan?

  That's huge for recovery.

• 1:58:13Speaker 03

  You have no idea how against my process you guys would be. I mean, I think I got two, probably had two massages this camp.

• 1:58:26Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing. Well, it's really funny if you look at the difference between Ilya Toporia has a YouTube channel as well, where it's fantastic, really goes into depth, but they're using like all this high-tech neural stimulation, headgear, and he's doing all these different things and it's all like...

• 1:58:45Speaker 03

  You see the video? It's got him doing that and then me taking a 420 dab.

• 1:58:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:58:51Speaker 04

  Did you see our video? Where he had the dog choker on his forehead? Every time he got straight with his legs, it got flat, I hit the butt. He's like, "Hurt." Did he bend his legs again?

• 1:59:01Speaker 03

  No, we, uh, covered our eyes and threw balls at each other.

• 1:59:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:06Speaker 03

  Trying to tap into those intuitive abilities.

• 1:59:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, right, yeah, with your eyes closed.

• 1:59:09Speaker 03

  But I mean, they're like...

• 1:59:11Speaker 04

  You're funny.

• 1:59:13Speaker 03

  I come from the fucking dirt. You know, my parents fucked up. They didn't put a golf club in my hand at four years old. They threw me in the dirt. And, you know, I became comfortable with the uncomfortable.

• 1:59:24Joe Rogan?

  That's a giant factor, though. Being comfortable with being uncomfortable is a huge asset. Yeah. It's such a It is, it is. With everything in life, with everything in life.

• 1:59:35Speaker 03

  Wrestling is definitely, definitely has, is the biggest variable when it comes to my success. I mean, the mental, the mental side of it, like, nobody can, it's very similar to fighting in the fact that nobody can help you. You know, it is against, all the blame is on you, all the success goes to you. And you can never use somebody else's excuse. Any team setting, I played football, I played baseball, soccer, swim team, swim team's a little different, but, you know, there's always a justification for why you failed or why you lost. When it comes to those, and you could always point to somewhere else. Or at least a piece, even if it's one or two percent somebody else's fault.

• 2:00:20Speaker 03

  Then, then you can justify it, you know, the loss.

• 2:00:23Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:00:23Speaker 03

  In, in wrestling, that's never the case.

• 2:00:25Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, it's a combat sport that's acceptable in high school. Like, it's a combat sport that you take in junior high school, you take in high school, and kids learn, like, there's, there's guys out there that are different. They're working harder than you, they're more aggressive than you, they're, they want it more than you, they put in more time than you. And that's a, that's a lesson that's very valuable when a kid, because kids get delusional about what their abilities are, how special they are, who they are. When you get fucking flatlined by some dude who just fucking picks you up and slams you on your back and pins you, and you're like, and he could do it anytime he wants, and this is the reality of training with this guy, like, over and over and over again, you're like, oh, great. He lateral drops you in front of the whole class, oh, great. Like, this is, this is reality.

• 2:01:09Joe Rogan?

  Now, you're either gonna get better, or this is gonna keep happening to you over and over and over again. And the mental toughness that comes out of kids that grind it out in wrestling and learn how to wrestle uncomfortable, learn how to cut weight at an early Early age, all that shit's terrible for you, but the mental aspect of it is fucking undeniable. Think about how many great wrestlers have become great MMA champions.

• 2:01:32Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 2:01:33Joe Rogan?

  It's the most important foundation.

• 2:01:34Speaker 04

  And great business people, like they, I watched a study a long time ago, they said that the boxing and wrestling created the best employees because accountability.

• 2:01:43Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:01:43Speaker 04

  You know, and again, the cutting the weight, like you're responsible, like that's, this is what I love about Justin is what makes it so nice to train him is high level people, like I've had the luck to be able to train some high level guys lately and I don't have to deal with any shit, like, you know, and it's, if I hold myself accountable, then there's, we don't have to have these deep conversations or get our feelings hurt, that we're just true to it. His accountability for everything is just, there's, there's nothing like it and I, I credit that to his parents. His parents are just such amazing people and the way that they had raised him, the whole, you know, cause he screwed up a lot as a kid. I told him, if we were hanging out when we were younger, we got a lot of trouble. Cause he reminded me of myself, super hyper, so like, like making super bad decisions, but getting punished, getting grounded, getting not, not

• 2:02:27Speaker 04

  being able to go out late at night, like strict parents and that, being able to understand that there is rules in life and you have to be accountable. If you screw up, you gotta deal with the punishment and that is, it comes from your parents and it's one of your best traits.

• 2:02:40Speaker 03

  My parents being such good people, um, so my mindset has always, since I was a kid, I have looked up. So the reason I take comments online and I read them, I've always looked up and given every single person I've ever interacted with the benefit of doubt of being good and whether it's what they're saying, what they're doing, their actions, everybody's been my role model. I've never, never looked at myself as a role model. I've always looked at whether, no matter what, I, even strangers, like I trust that they're gonna, that they're good and that's where I start my, that's where I start everywhere from.

• 2:03:24Speaker 03

  And, um, so reading comments online, like I, I truly take into account what, what I'm reading, you know, and I don't know why. Cause I know it doesn't matter a lot of the times, a lot of these probably fucking 13, 14 year old kids, but I, in my mind, they're 50 year old, you know, men with experience and I just try to use as much and as much of the readily available information, comments. Words, action as I can, from a place of, like, I feel like a child, in a sense, when it comes to like, interacting with people. And I don't know, I don't know why that's how I take it, or that's how I do it, but it makes everything, you know, a little bit better, and I'm not as disappointed as much, cause like,

• 2:04:07Speaker 03

  once I learn that they're not that, or they're not good, and they can't help me, then, I don't be like, "Oh, that's a bad person," I'm just like, "Okay, I'm not gonna have that experience again."

• 2:04:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's a good perspective. It sounds like you use it, then. And that's, listen, everyone's different, and if you can handle it, and you don't get mentally ill, from reading comments, that's a rare, you're a rare person.

• 2:04:28Speaker 04

  We had many conversations in the way that it never affected him.

• 2:04:31Speaker 03

  Human services, that's what my, I went to school for human service. I love to help people. You have no idea how much joy it brings me to assist people, to make people's life better, to lift someone's spirit. I mean, those, that is what makes me feel alive. And that comes through my faith, um, and through my parents. You know, my parents are such good people. They deserve so much more than, than most parents, because of their actions and their example that they showed for me. And, yeah, I'm just so grateful to be the person that I am, because, you know, it makes life easier. Life is easy. Life is so easy when you're not concerned about what people think, when you're not worried about things that you can't control.

• 2:05:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also easy if you're a good person.

• 2:05:17Speaker 03

  Well, I'm trying, but I couldn't be a good person without the example of my parents. You have no idea how good and naive my parents are. And when I say naive, it's in such a good way, because they haven't done the bad things that most of us have done. And I, and I failed him. And the last time I ever did drugs, I woke up in an ambulance, and I'm pretty sure I died. And I was like, "I will never fucking do that again." My parents do not deserve that. And that was probably 2016.

• 2:05:51Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:05:51Speaker 03

  And I was like, "I will never touch that again, ever. My parents do not deserve that." And that was, that's why I'm here.

• 2:05:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, good for you, dude. That's awesome. And it's great that you have such an awesome relationship with your parents. And it really does seem like that attitude that you have is very freeing, in a lot of ways.

• 2:06:10Speaker 03

  It is. It really is.

• 2:06:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:12Speaker 03

  Golf.

• 2:06:15Speaker 03

  Weed.

• 2:06:15Joe Rogan?

  Trevor, let's talk about those gloves. What the fuck do we have to do to get your gloves into the UFC? It doesn't make any sense that we're using inferior gloves.

• 2:06:25Speaker 03

  I want, obviously, I want to talk about this, but the gloves I fought in this week were different.

• 2:06:31Joe Rogan?

  They are?

• 2:06:32Speaker 03

  They felt, they, it was a

• 2:06:33Speaker 04

  They weren't different, the leather was different.

• 2:06:35Speaker 03

  There was the same, same glove, the leather was different. It was a little bit thicker, I think. And so it was softer. And so every time I've ever fought, I've had the most excruciating pain in between my hands right here, and I didn't feel that at all this fight.

• 2:06:49Speaker 04

  Hmm. So it's because they were thicker. So it's like if you have like a thinner material going through, it's gonna cut through the skin a little easier.

• 2:06:55Speaker 03

  Tighter material, tighter material.

• 2:06:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:06:57Speaker 03

  This was looser because it was thicker. It was weird.

• 2:07:01Joe Rogan?

  So it was better?

• 2:07:02Speaker 03

  Better.

• 2:07:02Speaker 04

  Better for that feeling that all fighters get.

• 2:07:04Speaker 03

  Better for comfortability, yeah, like you guys have no idea how uncomfortable we are when we walk in there.

• 2:07:08Speaker 04

  You're always like pulling on the glove to pull it back. It's like getting a hand wrap too tight and you get those little things between you.

• 2:07:13Speaker 03

  You're constantly pulling on the tongue here.

• 2:07:14Speaker 04

  So you make a fist and it squeezes harder.

• 2:07:16Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:07:18Speaker 03

  But he, this guy's a genius, he can fucking make anything.

• 2:07:20Speaker 04

  Uh, so Hunter reached out to me three weeks ago, four weeks ago, and said he wanted to ignite a conversation again. So we'll see where that goes, but, uh, you know, uh, from that first position that we were in, uh, a lot of things happened, uh, and a great thing, I always told you it was gonna be timing, timing's everything. And, uh, they did the right thing and tried to make what we had spoke about. You know, we had NDA and, uh, uh, we had a five-year and they moved it to a two-year. Took a lot of great notes and I'm very grateful to be a part of those because they did go out there and use a lot of the ideas that I had. Uh, but they just couldn't do it, uh, to the level that I could do it. And, uh, I, I thought it was super cool that they were trying. Because, uh, it was, it's a problem that they don't really see and understand, so.

• 2:08:02Speaker 04

  I think they're, they're in the right mindset and, you know, them helping the athletes, I thought was a great, great thing to do. Uh, but during that time when I was gonna talk to, I actually brought the gloves and it was when you were fighting on 300. Uh, we were out there and I, I had a new patent that I had been working on. So we could go opposite direction if they want to own it. It's a separate patent from the patent that I had that goes in all of our products, the internal strapping. This was a new patent, uh, still with internal strapping, but a, a more dialed in for a fight glove. And then we had those two options and then when we got there, Ollie had told me that they're releasing a new glove. And so we have, you know, two versions now, which is super cool. And yeah, I think it'll go great.

• 2:08:43Speaker 03

  Here's the conversation though, like, what are you trying to fix?

• 2:08:48Joe Rogan?

  Eye pokes.

• 2:08:49Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:08:50Joe Rogan?

  Eye pokes are bad.

• 2:08:50Speaker 03

  That is not possible.

• 2:08:52Joe Rogan?

  You don't think it's possible to make less eye pokes?

• 2:08:54Speaker 04

  You can make less, absolutely.

• 2:08:55Speaker 03

  You can make less, but you'll never stop eye pokes.

• 2:08:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, of course you're not gonna stop because the fingers are out.

• 2:09:00Speaker 03

  The issue is the athlete. The issue is the comfortability of the athlete and the performance of the athlete. That is where your ambition has to lie when it comes to making the glove better. Because the gloves we're fighting in now are fucking terrible. You have no idea. They, it's hard to make a fist. You have to use your entire muscle of your arm to make a fist. And so by the time we get to the fight, this is already, um,

• 2:09:30Speaker 04

  Your forearm is exhausted.

• 2:09:31Speaker 03

  Exhausted. And then the pressure in between your fingers is like something you can't replicate.

• 2:09:38Joe Rogan?

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• 2:10:22Joe Rogan?

  Get ahead of it today with ShipStation and get 60 days free at shipstation.com with the code JRE. That's shipstation.com code JRE. Taxes and fees apply. This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something different and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, they ranked the number one choice for new checking accounts in America. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee-free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands of fee-free ATMs. But here's the real kicker.

• 2:11:07Joe Rogan?

  If you get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category you actually pick yourself. Your savings rate, crazy high. It's nine times the national average. They're calling it the most rewarding way to bank. Go to chime.com/rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank, banking services and Chime card, provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details. Let me ask you this. Do you think it's possible to make something that's like a mitten? Something that covers over the tips of the fingers? You would have fucking 80% less eye pokes.

• 2:11:47Speaker 04

  I do think you could do that in time. I don't think that's, that, it changes hard for everybody, Joe. And that's a huge change for grapplers and things like that. But, but, so you're a grappler, so you're a grappler. Most people are gonna say, well, that's gonna affect this, or my certain locker. Until they try it, but again, it's, you have to test it.

• 2:12:06Joe Rogan?

  It would enhance it. The only, the, the problem would be like rear naked chokes, like getting the hand behind the head, you have more thickness. Like it's, regular gloves are a problem already, but is it more of a problem just to have the fingers covered with the regular glove? I think it's the same. It might actually, it might actually even slip in better. But the thing is, it's like covering the tips with like a mitten, like those old school Everlast bag gloves.

• 2:12:28Speaker 03

  I just think, I think it's a different sport now.

• 2:12:30Joe Rogan?

  But why? You could still clinch, you could still do everything you can do.

• 2:12:32Speaker 04

  That's what I'm talking about, Joe.

• 2:12:33Joe Rogan?

  You can take guys to the ground, everything's the same, you can still grapple.

• 2:12:36Speaker 03

  This is telling me so much right now, like, and if you take that away from me, yeah.

• 2:12:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:12:41Speaker 03

  Like that is a, that's a huge factor in when it comes to intuitive abilities.

• 2:12:44Joe Rogan?

  Okay, like, explain that to me. Like, what are you feeling with your fingertips? That you think would be missing?

• 2:12:50Speaker 03

  Well, it's not the fingertips. When it's my hand, like, he moves away. He moves any direction, like, I can make that read. Now he's farther, now he's there.

• 2:12:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:13:00Speaker 03

  And I think if you're gonna take touch away from us, that would deter our intuitive abilities.

• 2:13:06Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, I wonder. I wonder how much.

• 2:13:09Speaker 03

  But I also think that you have to understand where, as a fighter, for me, it's like when I am relaxed, when I'm relaxed, and if my hand can be in this position when I'm relaxed, then I'm okay. Then, then, then there's not gonna be as many eye pokes. But when I relax and it goes like this.

• 2:13:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:13:27Speaker 03

  Like, and now I have to.

• 2:13:28Joe Rogan?

  Because the gloves force your hand open.

• 2:13:29Speaker 03

  Now I have to do this. I'm naturally, you're never gonna take the human reaction and instinct away to protect yourself. And the instinct to protect yourself is, no.

• 2:13:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:13:39Speaker 03

  That is the instinct.

• 2:13:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:13:40Speaker 03

  It's natural, it's intuitive, and it has to be that because you're trying to get your, your chin tucked behind your shoulders so that you don't get hit. But the uncomfortability and like, the strenuous effort it takes to make a fist is fucking stupid.

• 2:13:58Joe Rogan?

  It's stupid, and this is the difference between your gloves and the current UFC gloves.

• 2:14:02Speaker 04

  My gloves are make it perform. My, my gloves are, are one of those things that it's.

• 2:14:06Speaker 03

  Promotes a natural hand position.

• 2:14:08Speaker 04

  Natural position, a better grip, better fist position where I'm not, when I squeeze my fist and I have the wrap on, it doesn't pull my hand up like this. And when you see guys touch gloves, they're usually like this.

• 2:14:18Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:14:19Speaker 04

  Not like this.

• 2:14:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:14:20Speaker 04

  And it's lining the bones up for, you know, again, they, they said that the last gloves were causing less knockouts. Our gloves were gonna cause more knockouts because of better hand position, better grip strength on being able to have holds. Like, if I'm holding someone's forearm.

• 2:14:32Joe Rogan?

  Protection for your hands, so less broken hands.

• 2:14:34Speaker 04

  And internal strapping, like, that is a huge thing. Like, my goal at a certain point would, to have where you can't have hand wraps on. Like, if you have a glove that's actually protecting your hand, but you have the gloves on, that now it's equal 100%. Because if you got one person, it adds more, uh, more padding, or less padding, or double layers tape. Like, there's many different things that you can do. And that, to me, it's like, if, if I, if one fighter has Tate wrapping their hands, and then the other one has House wrapping their hands, they're wrapping differently. Which one's better for breaks, which one's better for punching, like?

• 2:15:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:15:08Speaker 04

  Like, so having that, that's would be really cool. And that's, that's the difference with like, like our gloves. I'll show you.

• 2:15:13Speaker 03

  I've never broke my hand when he's ever taped my hands. Like his tape job is, I can't wait to show it off to the commission every single time. I'm like, look at that. Tell me you've seen a better one than that tonight. And every time they're like, I don't think so.

• 2:15:30Joe Rogan?

  You got gloves? Of course you did. Of course you did. They're my favorite, by far. And ladies and gentlemen at home, if you're just listening, the difference between Trevor's gloves and everybody else's gloves, one of the big differences is that you can see, if you're looking at it, let's see how they're curved, folks.

• 2:15:47Speaker 03

  It looks like a hand.

• 2:15:48Joe Rogan?

  The regular gloves from the UFC are not, they're straight, just like this. So these gloves promote a natural punching position. Look, without even putting them on, they're already in that position. And then when you put them on, they're damn near perfect. The padding is amazing, they're fantastic to hit the bag with. They're just fucking awesome. And they, and more importantly, look what they promote. So my hand is totally dead relaxed, and it promotes a closed fist position.

• 2:16:14Speaker 04

  The cool part too is this, this is what I was talking about.

• 2:16:17Joe Rogan?

  So this is a, he's doing the internal strapping right now.

• 2:16:19Speaker 04

  So this strap is coming from over here, so that's gonna pull this in. As you notice, we got padding on the side, so there's no, like, all the other gloves.

• 2:16:26Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:16:27Speaker 04

  Coming down on a single knuckle. But again, this strap is gonna really seal you in.

• 2:16:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah.

• 2:16:33Speaker 04

  And then this one.

• 2:16:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so these are better than the last ones you brought here? Oh, this is fucking fantastic.

• 2:16:39Speaker 04

  I've been dialing in, finding the right product.

• 2:16:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, you don't even need hand wraps. Well, you had told me before that when you hit the bag with his gloves, his bag gloves.

• 2:16:47Speaker 03

  I haven't used, I haven't wrapped my hands since 2015.

• 2:16:50Joe Rogan?

  Pfeiffer doesn't fight with hand wraps on, which is crazy.

• 2:16:53Speaker 04

  And it can get to the point, if we have the right protection, it's awesome.

• 2:16:58Joe Rogan?

  This is so superior to the UFC gloves. I mean, the fact that this isn't being used by the UFC right now is fucking criminal.

• 2:17:05Speaker 04

  We're gonna get it done.

• 2:17:06Joe Rogan?

  I hope so. I've been trying so hard.

• 2:17:08Speaker 04

  I stepped away from like the business part, I'm the visionary now. So I got right people that know how to make deals, so it's right. And the UFC's gonna be happy.

• 2:17:16Speaker 03

  We weren't ready.

• 2:17:17Speaker 04

  Yeah. Dude, I'm in there like, dude, you know, I don't do that.

• 2:17:20Speaker 03

  That was me versus Khabib.

• 2:17:21Speaker 04

  I take full responsibility.

• 2:17:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I believe it.

• 2:17:24Speaker 04

  That I didn't know that you could do deals all these different ways. You know, when they'd say what they wanted to do, I was like, yeah, that's not how.

• 2:17:29Joe Rogan?

  Bro, this feels so good. It's so better.

• 2:17:31Speaker 04

  It's so better.

• 2:17:32Joe Rogan?

  It's just much better. It's like.

• 2:17:34Speaker 04

  When you put it on, you're like, oh, I wanna hit something.

• 2:17:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is one of the things that I love about you, is that you're so fucking creative with stuff. And you're constantly trying to refine things and make them better.

• 2:17:44Speaker 03

  Every single piece of equipment I have trained with for the last.

• 2:17:46Speaker 04

  So we see so many

• 2:17:48Joe Rogan?

  So this is your training bag?

• 2:17:50Speaker 03

  Eleven twelve, yeah, that's what I train in, yep.

• 2:17:52Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 2:17:53Speaker 03

  I hit pads in that, I've never worn hand wraps once.

• 2:17:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's fantastic.

• 2:17:58Speaker 04

  But watch how you can't open your hand to go straight out.

• 2:18:02Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:18:03Speaker 04

  And then the pointer knuckle, protecting that pointer knuckle is so big.

• 2:18:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's it, right?

• 2:18:13Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:18:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's so nice.

• 2:18:15Speaker 04

  Then you open, you can still grip.

• 2:18:17Joe Rogan?

  Right, you can still grip, you can still grab things. It's hard to choke.

• 2:18:20Speaker 04

  And the door knocking knuckles, this is what

• 2:18:22Speaker 03

  I choke the shit out of people with those.

• 2:18:24Joe Rogan?

  I bet you do. You gotta go palm to palm, right? But still, it's just

• 2:18:28Speaker 04

  Those are yours, Joe.

• 2:18:29Joe Rogan?

  Fantastic. Oh, thank you.

• 2:18:30Speaker 04

  And then I got you another pair of X-Factors too.

• 2:18:32Joe Rogan?

  Fuck, yeah.

• 2:18:33Speaker 04

  You got big hands, so I remember I give you the sixties, you're like, "Bro, these I gotta wear for B."

• 2:18:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I got big hands for a little dude. Unusual.

• 2:18:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, we'll get it done, but, I mean, anytime you want to

• 2:18:45Joe Rogan?

  I'm so happy, I'm so happy you're gonna get it done, because I pushed for it so many times. I brought it up to Dana, I brought it up to everybody, I was like, "Listen, what the fuck are we doing? You guys spent a million, billion dollars trying to make these new gloves, you got rid of them in three months."

• 2:18:57Speaker 03

  That's because, this could sound bad, that's because they've never thought about the fighter.

• 2:19:05Speaker 04

  But they did, they tried, they tried to make new gloves.

• 2:19:07Joe Rogan?

  They tried.

• 2:19:08Speaker 03

  They didn't fucking try.

• 2:19:10Speaker 04

  They did, dude, you know how much money, I'm not even gonna tell you how much money they put in.

• 2:19:13Joe Rogan?

  They spent a lot of money.

• 2:19:14Speaker 04

  They did, dude.

• 2:19:14Speaker 03

  To do what? To give me the same exact fucking problem?

• 2:19:17Joe Rogan?

  They thought they were making a bet, they hired people, the people don't know what the fuck they're doing.

• 2:19:20Speaker 04

  They hired a company that works on football helmets.

• 2:19:23Speaker 03

  But what did they change in their glove?

• 2:19:24Speaker 04

  But they don't know, they took the ideas, at least they tried, they did, I will give them 100% credit for that.

• 2:19:29Joe Rogan?

  They did try, but I remember seeing the gloves when they tried and going, "These suck, these are not as good." I'm like, right away, I was

• 2:19:35Speaker 03

  Still uncomfortable, still hurt my hands.

• 2:19:37Joe Rogan?

  I said to them right away, "Why don't you just get Travis' gloves? What the fuck are we doing here? No, these are good, these are good." Get the fuck, the best gloves exist, they're already made. Like, there's only a few people out there that are willing to like, really get creative and redesign and engineer gloves. And when someone does it to the extent that you've done it, like, god.

• 2:19:57Speaker 04

  So Joe, when you think about that, that's where I think I fit in well with this because I want to evolve with the company. And if we change one thing, like my first thing I want to do is help it performance. I don't want someone to hurt their hand where all of a sudden I hurt my hand on the top of your head and I'm just left-handed now. And everybody just, you know, there's no pay-per-view now, but I pay to watch these fights. And now the guy that I wanted to see fight can't continue because he hurt his hand.

• 2:20:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:20:21Speaker 04

  So we fix that problem. We fix longer, better grip strength for the grapplers who are going to need to have wrist control when throwing shots. I want to help athletes perform and as we go, let's slowly develop and test with the athletes and find out what we, because it's about the athlete. It's what works for them. And when we can get gloves on people and try something like you were talking about, that'll take time. You have to train it and go, oh, I actually like this better. And there's the pros and cons. There's pros and cons to everything.

• 2:20:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:20:46Speaker 04

  So it would take time and that's where I'm passionate about is let's find a problem and let me think through solving it. But I need to know what that problem is.

• 2:20:54Joe Rogan?

  Gear and we should send anybody to your website. Is it Onyx?

• 2:20:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, O-N-X sports.

• 2:20:59Joe Rogan?

  onxsports.com.

• 2:21:01Speaker 04

  Yep, a lot of people spell it with a Y.

• 2:21:02Joe Rogan?

  Gloves, the best shin pads.

• 2:21:04Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 2:21:05Joe Rogan?

  You have the best equipment. It's fucking phenomenal. There it is right there. That's the website. Onyx Sports. It's fucking fantastic stuff. I mean, it's really obvious that it's a high-level coach who's developed all this shit. I mean, everything you make is top of the food chain.

• 2:21:19Speaker 03

  Got the best tester in the world, baby.

• 2:21:21Speaker 04

  Right, dude.

• 2:21:22Speaker 03

  I fucking break everything.

• 2:21:24Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure.

• 2:21:24Speaker 03

  And I cannot, I cannot break these gloves. I cannot break these gloves. I have to switch every like six months because I wear the foam out so much. So I don't ever want to hurt my.

• 2:21:34Speaker 04

  But you got two or three sessions of training every day. Like that's, for a typical person, these gloves are going to last well over. I, Corey had his shin guards for four years.

• 2:21:43Speaker 03

  I had my shin guards for like three years.

• 2:21:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:21:46Joe Rogan?

  And when you think about the amount of damage that that three years entails.

• 2:21:49Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:21:50Joe Rogan?

  That's pretty fucking incredible for pieces of leather and foam. Yeah.

• 2:21:53Speaker 03

  So much fucking sweat.

• 2:21:55Joe Rogan?

  Soaked with sweat. Everything's getting broken down and moisturized and then drying out again and crap.

• 2:22:00Speaker 04

  Hey, that's our bags that were up there. Dude, we got connectors for the shin guards and the knee pads on the outside. So all your equipment's on the. Outside of the bag to dry.

• 2:22:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:22:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, so that's, that's really cool too. So just trying to rethink, uh, uh, how things work, so.

• 2:22:13Joe Rogan?

  That's what I love about the way you approach things. You're always like fixing the problems.

• 2:22:17Speaker 04

  I can't stand when we're not even working on kickboxing and someone's kicking. And it's because they're fucking gear, you know?

• 2:22:22Speaker 03

  That was the worst thing about fixing my nose.

• 2:22:24Joe Rogan?

  Dude, fucking silly shit.

• 2:22:25Speaker 03

  Smelling people, I was like, oh my god.

• 2:22:28Speaker 04

  You know how the gym is, especially with gees, right?

• 2:22:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, oh dude. The dudes who don't wash their gees, those guys are, that's, that's a real problem.

• 2:22:36Speaker 04

  It's a real problem.

• 2:22:37Joe Rogan?

  And those are the ones that always give you fucking cooties too.

• 2:22:39Speaker 04

  Dude, oh.

• 2:22:40Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 2:22:40Speaker 04

  So nasty.

• 2:22:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's nasty. Listen, Justin, uh, I just want, I'm so glad you're not gonna fight to the end of the year, like, for whenever, just enjoy that, cause that was a fucking masterpiece.

• 2:22:51Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 2:22:52Joe Rogan?

  It was beautiful to be there. I mean, I, I felt so.

• 2:22:56Speaker 03

  American.

• 2:22:57Joe Rogan?

  American? I felt so thankful.

• 2:23:01Speaker 03

  Represent this country because we're such a melting pot.

• 2:23:03Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:23:03Speaker 03

  And I think I have done it, I think I achieved that, and so I'm very, very proud of that.

• 2:23:07Joe Rogan?

  Dude, you did it in spades. You mean, you did it five stars. It was fucking phenomenal. It was one of the greatest events that any sporting event has ever put on. I mean, maybe the greatest sporting event in the history of the world.

• 2:23:19Speaker 03

  I said it before, this is gonna be like some Miracle on Ice shit.

• 2:23:22Joe Rogan?

  It was, man. It really was.

• 2:23:23Speaker 03

  I knew, I knew, I knew I had the opportunity to do something special.

• 2:23:26Joe Rogan?

  You did it, and then here come town.

• 2:23:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, I wanted to see my family.

• 2:23:31Joe Rogan?

  It was incredible. That was so cool.

• 2:23:34Speaker 04

  So awesome.

• 2:23:34Joe Rogan?

  Look how cool that is.

• 2:23:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, so cool.

• 2:23:36Joe Rogan?

  Look how cool that is. That is so amazing. That's so fucking amazing. It was an amazing night, dude. I'm so happy I went. I'm so happy I was there to see it live. It was a real honor.

• 2:23:46Speaker 04

  I was honestly really nervous, Joe. I was like, dude, there's like, just again, being around everybody and something could happen, the drones that could, you know, that they stopped, like. Again, I wasn't knowing what to expect and then till after the fight, cause again, we couldn't take it in, it was a beautiful thing. And Justin?

• 2:24:01Speaker 03

  I was like, fuck it, if I get taken out in the middle of the cage, how fucking legendary would that be?

• 2:24:05Joe Rogan?

  I said to Trump, I go, I hope we don't die in a terrorist attack. I said to Trump, I hope we don't die in a terrorist attack. He goes, we gotta go somehow.

• 2:24:12Speaker 03

  Everyone will remember it for the rest of eternity.

• 2:24:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, but no, I'll pass.

• 2:24:19Speaker 03

  Sign me up, bud.

• 2:24:20Joe Rogan?

  Better the way it went.

• 2:24:23Speaker 04

  That's a way better outcome.

• 2:24:25Joe Rogan?

  Way better. Well, hey, brother. Thank you for coming here.

• 2:24:27Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 2:24:27Joe Rogan?

  Congratulations. Masterpiece.

• 2:24:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:24:30Joe Rogan?

  Both of you.

• 2:24:30Speaker 03

  Let's go hunting. I want to go hunting. I just got a, I'm gonna shoot an elephant.

• 2:24:34Joe Rogan?

  I saw on Go Hunt, on the Go Hunt website, you went antelope hunting.

• 2:24:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's awesome.

• 2:24:39Speaker 04

  Did you see Luke? Thousand yard shot?

• 2:24:42Speaker 03

  Dude, check it out. Check it out. We fucking missed our ass off. We were in the, it was windy. These things do not stop moving. They could see us forever and they just kept going and we were on shoot, we couldn't get prone. So we had to, you know, you're, you're, every hunt, you're like, I'm gonna have a prone position. I'm gonna shoot from. We could not get in a prone position. So we're on shooting sticks, trying to manipulate the sticks and take shots.

• 2:25:05Joe Rogan?

  Antelope, you know, that's a prehistoric animal.

• 2:25:08Speaker 03

  Luke misses from 140 yards.

• 2:25:11Speaker 04

  Dude, the story was so much better for Luke without that.

• 2:25:14Speaker 03

  1,093 yards.

• 2:25:16Speaker 04

  Crazy.

• 2:25:17Speaker 03

  Hits it in the head, drops it. And we're just like, what the fuck, Luke? How? How do you hit that shot and miss 100? This is, uh, yeah, look at this.

• 2:25:27Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that's crazy.

• 2:25:28Speaker 03

  1,092.

• 2:25:29Joe Rogan?

  Was he shooting for the head?

• 2:25:30Speaker 03

  No. I don't even know if it hit him. I mean.

• 2:25:33Speaker 04

  It looked like it shot him in the neck.

• 2:25:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:25:35Joe Rogan?

  It looked like it got him in the neck. It was, well, 1,000 yards.

• 2:25:38Speaker 03

  1,000 yards. We're just trying to hit the center of the fucking target.

• 2:25:41Joe Rogan?

  Boy, in these crazy prairies too, the kind of wind drift you're dealing with.

• 2:25:44Speaker 03

  And they, they don't, they could see for miles. These things do not stop moving.

• 2:25:48Joe Rogan?

  No, they're, they evolved to get away from cheetahs. There used to be North American cheetahs. And so North America, this is all before the Younger Dryas impact. So it was like, when, somewhere around 11,800 years ago, 65% of all North American mammals went extinct. And there was a American lion that was bigger than the African lion. And then there was a cheetah. And these fuckers, these guys evolved to get away from cheetahs. So they can run like 55 miles an hour.

• 2:26:15Speaker 03

  Forever.

• 2:26:16Joe Rogan?

  They fucking fly.

• 2:26:17Speaker 04

  Evolution's crazy though.

• 2:26:19Joe Rogan?

  When you look at them, they look prehistoric. Their eyeballs are like way out here.

• 2:26:23Speaker 03

  It's crazy how good a decoy works with them though.

• 2:26:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, horses too. Guys walk right up on them on horses.

• 2:26:28Speaker 03

  Get a mu, a mu cow, I think just walk right behind that bitch.

• 2:26:31Joe Rogan?

  Walk right behind them and then you could, that's how archery hunters do it a lot.

• 2:26:34Speaker 04

  Cause you have to get a lot, yeah.

• 2:26:36Joe Rogan?

  Very tough to sneak up, sneak up on them. But do you, do you bow hunt? Do you ever bow hunt?

• 2:26:41Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:26:42Joe Rogan?

  No, would you want to learn? You would love it.

• 2:26:44Speaker 03

  It's not that I have a bow. I have a bow. Just hasn't hunted. I shot an elk and did not recover it. And I told myself that I will never go archery hunting unless I have the time and effort to be 100% ready to make that shot.

• 2:27:01Joe Rogan?

  Yes, right.

• 2:27:01Speaker 03

  And so right now it's just rifle.

• 2:27:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, rifle is always going to be the most effective way. It's still an awesome way to hunt.

• 2:27:07Speaker 03

  Coos Whitetail in Arizona is my favorite hunt.

• 2:27:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 2:27:10Speaker 03

  You should go on out with me one of these days.

• 2:27:12Joe Rogan?

  That's a fun hunt. Those are tiny little guys, the little gray ghosts.

• 2:27:15Speaker 03

  I grew up there, so my buddies, their whole life have looked. We could go out there, we wouldn't find shit.

• 2:27:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:27:20Speaker 03

  They're fucking everywhere, but we can't find them.

• 2:27:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're very...

• 2:27:23Speaker 03

  They call them the gray ghosts, and my buddies can find them. And it's such a fun hunt.

• 2:27:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a great hunt. Well, Arizona's a great hunting state, too. You have some of the best elk in the country.

• 2:27:32Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:27:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Gentlemen, again, congratulations. Absolute masterpiece Sunday night. One for history. One of the... Maybe the greatest event in the history of the sport. I mean, look at it.

• 2:27:43Speaker 03

  Call me on Joe Rogan again, baby.

• 2:27:45Joe Rogan?

  Anytime. Let's do it one more time. Let's do it one more time when you do decide to wrap it up. Thank you, guys. Thank you. And onxsports.com. Get the best gloves in the world.

• 2:27:53Speaker 03

  My brother.

• 2:27:54Joe Rogan?

  Thank you. All right, bye.