397: Still Missing at Sea, 48 Stab Wounds & Family Annihilation Plot

This week on Headline Highlights: Lynette Hooker’s disappearance in the Bahamas is now under heavier scrutiny after authorities seized her husband Brian’s sailboat as part of the investigation. A deadly Pennsylvania house fire is being investigated as arson after police say Robert Zimmerman allegedly set the home ablaze following a woman’s rejection. In another disturbing case, prosecutors say Brian Lanzim drove from Maine to New Jersey armed with guns and body armor after threatening his ex-girlfriend’s family, in what authorities believe may have been a planned family annihilation. And, in Washington, a woman was stabbed 48 times in what prosecutors now believe was staged to look like a home invasion.. If you’re new here, don’t forget to follow the show for weekly deep dives into the darkest true crime cases! To watch the video version of this episode, head over to youtube.com/@annieelise. .🔎Join Our True Crime Club & Get Exclusive Content & Perks..🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to both of my weekly true crime series 10 to Life & Serialously with Annie Elise wherever you get your podcasts on the Annie Elise Channel!🍎 Apple Podcasts | Where you can also unlock access to 100+ and growing extra exclusive deep dives.💚 Spotify🔴 YouTube🎙️ All Other Platforms.📸 Follow Annie on Socials Instagram: @_annieeliseTikTok: @_annieeliseSubstack: @annieeliseFacebook: @10toLife.👗 Shop Annie’s Must-Haves! ShopMY: bit.ly/AnnieElise_ShopMy Amazon: bit.ly/AnnieElise_Amazon.🫵🏻 Get Involved or Recommend a CaseAbout Annie: www.annieelise.comFor Business Inquiries: [email protected].📚 Episode Sources CBS News | Facebook | Fox News | KATU | KOMO News | Law & Crime | NewsNation | New York Post | People | WGAL | WJAC-TV••••••••••••••••••🚨Disclaimers1️⃣ Some links may be affiliate links, they do not cost you anything, but I make a small percentage from the sale. Thank you so much for watching and supporting me. 2️⃣ Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research. 3️⃣ The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Annie Elise?

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• 0:27Speaker 01

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• 0:51Speaker 02

  Home is for impressing, but also resting and entertaining guests in, burning some sageon, decorating and staging. This season, visit HomeSense to get all the things that make your home home. HomeSense, abundantly affordable.

• 1:09Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialist Sleep.

• 1:32Annie Elise?

  Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all new episode of Serialist Sleep. With me, your host, Annie Elise. Happy Thursday. I hope you're having a good week so far. We're almost at the weekend, so yay for that. And happy belated Mother's Day to all of the mothers who are listening. Uh, let's see, a lot has been happening this week. And interestingly enough, there's been like, not a ton of updates in cases we've been covering, but a lot of brand new cases that are going on right now. And like some really- Disturbing, odd, obscure cases. And look, I know we talked about hantavirus a little bit last week. So many of you commented on it with like, not only your opinion, but what you've

• 2:14Annie Elise?

  heard, you've been following it. It obviously has progressively gotten, I guess, I don't know if you would say worse. I guess so. It's evolved over the last week. So I am going to be releasing a bonus episode, most likely tomorrow with a full timeline of all of that. Everything that has come up, you know, throughout this situation, all the way up until today, whenever I record it this afternoon, because now the cruise has disembarked, there's more illnesses, there's more information, and we have a lot to talk about. So I know it's not obviously like in our wheelhouse of true crime and the normal things that we talk about. But because of how many of you not only showed interest, but were asking for more information and just still feel

• 2:56Annie Elise?

  a little bit unclear about what's going on, we figured, you know, might as well put all of the information that we have gathered together and give you an episode. So that will be coming out tomorrow. But remember, you're going to want to make sure you're following the podcast so that you don't miss it. I also can tell right now, my voice is getting hoarse. That sucks. That means I am probably going to be sick soon, which fuck that. All right. So headline highlights today, everybody, welcome to the show, a brand new guest that we have never had before that I am really excited for you to meet. Her name is Ami Obreen. Hello, welcome.

• 3:34Speaker 03

  It's so nice to meet you.

• 3:35Annie Elise?

  It's very nice to meet you. You know, I feel like I've known you my whole life.

• 3:39Speaker 03

  Well, and I feel like you must feel very close to me to come in sick and just chat with me so closely.

• 3:46Annie Elise?

  Literally as I'm talking about hantavirus.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  No, I thought, should I be pulling out a mask right now? Like, what's happening?

• 3:51Annie Elise?

  I haven't been around any rodents lately, except any.

• 3:55Speaker 03

  I was gonna say.

• 3:57Annie Elise?

  To my knowledge. Hello, welcome. First, we're not going to get into it yet. Did you do your homework?

• 4:04Speaker 03

  I did.

• 4:05Annie Elise?

  Okay, for those of you who listened last week, I know some of you DM'd me and said you did your homework too.

• 4:10Speaker 03

  Oh, I'm excited.

• 4:11Annie Elise?

  And that you're like, very excited to talk through this together. I did assign some homework last week on Thursday. I've never done that before, but I was feeling very teacher appreciation week. And the homework was to watch the Netflix docu-series, Should I Marry a Murderer? Because I had watched it, I have a lot of thoughts on it. And so I gave Amy here some homework. All of you listening or watching some homework. So I hope you guys did the work because we're going to talk about it after we get through these cases today. Um, yeah, so are you ready?

• 4:43Speaker 03

  I am ready.

• 4:43Annie Elise?

  Well, I want to start with actually an update in a case because I feel like this shit that's going on in the Bahamas is like the case that is not going away and just keeps getting shadier and shadier. Which when we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, I remember I said, I think like straight to camera, I was like, look, I will pay for your airfare, your hotel, get your ass back to the Bahamas, look for your missing wife, which spoiler alert, he still hasn't hit me up to take me up on that offer. Which that's not a surprise because I think he is trying to not go back to the Bahamas for obvious reasons. But anyways, you probably remember us talking about the disappearance of Lynette Hooker. The woman who vanished in the Bahamas back in April.

• 5:24Annie Elise?

  She was on this evening little boat cruise on a dinghy with her husband, Brian, and according to him, fell off the dinghy into the water and it was so dark, he couldn't find her. And at the time, it was described as basically just this horrific accident that took place out at sea. But now, the case is starting to feel a lot different. Because there have been a lot of new developments along the way and a specific new one that came out this week. And it's something that has a lot of people raising their eyebrows. Because now, authorities have officially seized Brian's little boat as evidence. So really quickly, just to refresh everybody again on this case. Lynette disappeared on April 4th near Elbow Cay in the Bahamas.

• 6:07Annie Elise?

  Brian says that the two of them were heading back to their sailboat, named The Soulmate, on one of those little dinghy, kind of like inflatable. Looking type boats and Lynette fell overboard into the darkness. She, he couldn't reach her. He also said that the water was pretty rough and that when she fell over the dinghy, she had been holding the key to the dinghy. So once she hit the water, the engine shut off as well. He said that he had tried searching for her in the dark, but eventually he lost sight of her completely. So then he had to paddle himself back to the shore alone, which getting back to the shore, it took him almost nine hours. But when he finally made it back at around 4 a.m., he did call the authorities and he told them what happened.

• 6:50Annie Elise?

  So after that, search crews spent days looking for Lynette. They were searching by boat, by air, all means that they possibly could. But unfortunately, she was never found. And as more details started coming out, a lot of people online just really started questioning the integrity of what he was saying, his story. Was it really adding up? Not necessarily because there was any sort of proof that there was foul play at that point, but more so because there were just a lot of unanswered questions. Questions about the timeline, about the conditions that night and about how exactly this happened. Because Brian also was the only known witness at the time, which that's huge, right? I mean, if the only witness was then paddling for nine hours,

• 7:34Annie Elise?

  his wife just so happened to fall overboard. It's a lot of, you know, coincidental stuff. So he ultimately ended up being detained by the authorities in the Bahamas for five days and he was questioned about the situation. But eventually he was released without charges. He also then went back to the United States, to which Lynette's daughter was wondering why he was doing that. He said it was a family emergency, but like what family emergency is going to trump looking for your missing wife? And then once that family emergency is handled, why aren't you returning to look for her? It feels more like, you know, you don't want to get locked up in the Bohemian jail system. That's what it's feeling like to me. So last week investigators ended up making another move

• 8:16Annie Elise?

  that started getting people talking. The Coast Guard publicly asked for help identifying another sailboat that had reportedly been anchored right near their sailboat, the Soulmate, and anchored near it the night that Lynette disappeared. So this, of course, immediately made people wonder if the investigators were possibly trying to find witnesses. Or maybe if they were trying to verify whether somebody else saw or heard anything at all that night. Not just a witness to them getting off the boat, but maybe they saw the dinghy, maybe they saw something. But now, things with that have escalated even more. Because over the weekend, the U.S. Coast Guard Investigative Service officially seized the Soulmate itself.

• 8:57Annie Elise?

  Which, remember, that's the sailboat, not the dinghy, but like the major boat. So that's interesting because, yes, you want to seize everything as evidence, you want to start building the timeline, you want to look for any sort of whatever, and just anything that will help tell the story of what happened. But could it be that they think that something happened on the Soulmate itself? And maybe not on the dinghy. Maybe they did return back from dinner to the sailboat. Something happened, a fight, an argument, and he made the whole dinghy story up in the middle of the night and then paddled for nine hours? Who really knows? But obviously, they're looking for something. According to the reports, the boat had left the Bahamas and actually was heading back toward the United States.

• 9:38Annie Elise?

  When all of this happened, they then decided to intercept it and they brought it into Fort Pierce, Florida. There's even footage of the boat being towed by the Coast Guard and there's drone footage just showing it sitting right there at the Coast Guard facility while the investigators are starting to process it. And I'm going to play a little bit of that video for you now, for those of you who are watching the video version of this. And if you're listening to the audio version, you can, of course, as always, pop over to the video version. But let me just play you some of that news coverage now with those visuals.

• 10:08Speaker 04

  Breaking tonight, a massive development in the mystery of the missing Michigan mother Lynette Hooker. Her body still not found tonight. For weeks, the sailboat known as the Soulmate sat on a mooring ball in the Bahamas. Well, tonight, it's in U.S. custody. The Coast Guard intercepting the 46-foot vessel and these exclusive images from the Drop Dead Sirius podcast with Ashley Banfield, allegedly showing the boat being towed into Fort Pierce, Florida. Investigators are now scouring the deck for forensic evidence, digital data, anything that could challenge the story told by Lynette's husband, Brian. Now, he claims she fell overboard from a dinghy back on April 4th, but the Coast Guard investigative service clearly widening its net now.

• 10:51Annie Elise?

  So honestly, this is a pretty big deal because law enforcement generally doesn't just seize an entire boat in a missing persons case unless they do believe that there can be evidence on board, right? So now investigators reportedly have access to everything. GPS history, navigation records, electronics, phones, digital data, possible forensic evidence, trace evidence, I mean, really anything and everything that could either, A, back up Brian's story completely and illustrate that he's telling the truth, or potentially poke holes in his story. I want to be clear, though, as of right now, Brian Hooker has not been charged with any

• 11:33Annie Elise?

  crime at all, and investigators have not publicly accused him of any crimes related to the case. But between the Coast Guard involvement and the search for nearby witnesses, and now the actual seizure of the soulmate sailboat, it definitely feels like the investigators are taking a deeper look as to what really happened that night. I personally think where there's smoke, there's fire. There's nothing about this story that adds up to me. It could be a horrible tragic accident, yes, but again, what I'm getting caught up on is, then why aren't you returning to the Bahamas? Why are you hiding out in, you know, not, I guess, like in plain sight, yes, but still evading going back? And as of right now, Lynette also has still not been found.

• 12:17Annie Elise?

  So it will be interesting to see what they discover, if anything, on the soulmate. Maybe there's a droplet of blood, maybe there's a phone ping from when she was really back on the boat that night before, I would imagine, he threw all of her devices overboard if he really did do anything to her. Um, I mean, we'll see what comes out of this, but my gut is telling me, and I could be wrong, I have been wrong. Once that I can think of off the top of my head about a case, I have been wrong once before. I could be wrong again.

• 12:47Speaker 03

  I was gonna say in life or about a case?

• 12:49Annie Elise?

  About a case.

• 12:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:51Annie Elise?

  But, and maybe I've been wrong about more, but not that come to mind, but there is one that I know for a fact I was wrong about when I thought like the daughter was involved. And still, I will say this, though, in my defense, a lot of people do still think the daughter is involved. It was this case about this woman, Debbie Collier. She basically was found nude, burned alive in the woods. And it was ruled as self inflicted. But right before she took her life, she sent her daughter a Venmo, a Venmo with the exact dollar amount that she had in her bank account. With like a cryptic message about a key being under the porch, like weird stuff like that. The daughter had money problems, the neighborhood, the neighborhood heard a fight between them the night before. There was like a shady boyfriend in the mix. People don't typically burn themselves alive.

• 13:34Annie Elise?

  She was seen on camera going and buying, can't remember if it was liquor or what it was to go to a tailgate for like a big game that night. And then like veered off course and went, apparently took her own life in the woods. So everybody's like, something's going on here. People still think that there's something shady that went on there, but it ultimately was ruled as self harm. And so I will say, I have been wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong here.

• 13:58Speaker 03

  I mean, this feels, no, and like you were saying, nothing adds up. And the story doesn't add up. There's too many things that don't add up. And that's the problem. I mean, if your spouse is missing, you don't leave.

• 14:11Annie Elise?

  No.

• 14:11Speaker 03

  You're doing anything you can to help aid with the investigation. You're pressing the investigators to do whatever they can. You're not piecing out.

• 14:20Annie Elise?

  And obviously, you know, I'm just thinking about this now. This is something they obviously are going to put together in terms of timeline. I could see, let's just say this, it took him nine hours to paddle to shore. My first question is, did he not have a cellphone? Or maybe there wasn't service out there? Okay, fine. Nine hours. So how far in comparison was that dinghy? If the shore is here, the dinghy's here and the soulmate's here. Like, how much more time would it have taken for him to get to the sailboat from the dinghy versus the shore? Was he trying to extend it? To nine hour like they're gonna probably do all of the coordinates to figure out like again map time of like what happened that night but there's something that just feels

• 14:59Speaker 03

  So they're thinking maybe something happened on the main sailboat and then maybe that he took I know you're saying maybe the dinghy was just a made up story but maybe he used the dinghy to

• 15:07Annie Elise?

  Dispose of her.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 15:08Annie Elise?

  Possibly and like

• 15:09Speaker 03

  That's what I was thinking and maybe ditch just didn't take his phone cuz

• 15:12Annie Elise?

  Right cuz you don't want it to track although that would easily be disproven because if his phone and if her phone are last pinging on the soulmate not at the restaurant or wherever they had dinner which I know they were doing an evening cruise so maybe they had dinner went back then decided to go on an evening cruise together like with a drink or like I need to dig in a little bit more here but I mean I think the writing's on the wall.

• 15:36Speaker 03

  Yeah and I mean obviously there's no way to know what happened but it feels like there'd be more I I don't know I guess this is total speculation but you would feel like there'd be more opportunity for something to happen on a larger vessel than on a small dinghy where it's like

• 15:50Annie Elise?

  Unless he was planning it because he knew that she was like upset and like kind of not over the relationship but like there was some friction in the relationship so he's like oh let's go for sunset cruise just like oh let's go for a hike I'm gonna push you off the cliff I'm gonna push you off the dinghy um I mean who knows my voice is getting worse I think I should start singing Smelly Cat.

• 16:09Speaker 03

  Well when you first introduced me and I mean it's fine if that wasn't as high level just kidding no no before you got into that though I was like gonna say you're kind of like low energy today but then as you started saying you felt sick I felt a little guilty that I was gonna call you out for that.

• 16:24Annie Elise?

  I did yawn right before we recorded.

• 16:26Speaker 03

  It's true I yeah I thought you were just sleepy.

• 16:28Annie Elise?

  I literally yesterday injected glutathione into my ass cheek so I should not be getting sick I wanna refund honestly this is this is bullshit you know Smelly Cat Smelly Cat It's not your fault.

• 16:45Speaker 03

  Um let's not ruin the vocals on this.

• 16:47Annie Elise?

  God people are like turning they're in their car they're all oh somebody crashes right now.

• 16:52Speaker 03

  I did not do my homework for no reason.

• 16:54Annie Elise?

  Okay oh not case homework but like the real homework that we're gonna get to.

• 16:58Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 16:59Annie Elise?

  You know what I think would be really fun when we get to that if I grade you.

• 17:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 17:03Annie Elise?

  But like it'll be completely

• 17:07Annie Elise?

  Subjective.

• 17:08Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 17:09Annie Elise?

  Because like I have my opinion of what qualifies as an A versus an F.

• 17:12Speaker 03

  Great.

• 17:13Annie Elise?

  With whatever your opinion is.

• 17:15Speaker 03

  Perfect. Sounds like I'm set up for success.

• 17:17Annie Elise?

  Speaking of a loser man being rejected.

• 17:20Speaker 03

  Beyond.

• 17:21Annie Elise?

  Okay, okay. Let us, let it rip, O'Brien.

• 17:24Speaker 03

  Okay. All right. So this next case out of Pennsylvania started with a house fire in the middle of the night, but investigators are saying that it wasn't an accident at all. Because according to police, a man allegedly set the home on fire after a woman living there rejected him. And details about this are just awful. So this happened in Lewistown, Pennsylvania, where police say a 40-year-old man named Robert Zimmerman had gone to this home because he wanted to confess his feelings to a woman who lived in the attic apartment. Apparently, the building where he lived was divided up and rented out by multiple tenants. But according to investigators, when he got there, she rejected him, and that's when everything escalated. Witnesses reportedly told investigators that they saw Robert setting items on fire

• 18:09Speaker 03

  inside the first floor of the home. And then another witness said that Robert actually admitted to starting the fire. And as it spread throughout the building, witnesses said that they saw Robert eventually walk outside, stand in a nearby alley, and just watch as everything unfold, which is super creepy. It actually reminds me of that meme of that little girl where she's like, lights the building on fire, and she's just standing back watching. And inside the house, as you could imagine, people were desperately trying to survive. One man reportedly had to jump from the second-story window just to escape the flames. And investigators say he suffered severe burns to his throat, along with major facial injuries. Another woman was reportedly hanging out of a window, trying to get away from the smoke,

• 18:55Speaker 03

  when she either lost consciousness, or just became completely overwhelmed and fell onto the concrete below. But 44-year-old Brandy Felipe, the woman who rejected Robert, she never made it out. Authorities say she became trapped inside during the fire, and her death has officially been ruled a homicide caused by arson. And when you hear more about who- She was, it honestly just makes this story even more heartbreaking. Reports say Brandy was an army veteran who specialized in Patriot missile systems during her military service, before later becoming a truck driver. And then there's another layer to this case that people online have been really discussing. After Robert was taken into custody, police say he admitted to taking fentanyl

• 19:37Speaker 03

  and actually started showing signs of overdosing while he was there. He then had to be transported to the hospital before investigators could even continue questioning him. And once they were able to speak with him again, he allegedly made several incriminating statements. But he also claimed that he couldn't remember the exact moments the fire started, even though he could remember what happened right before and right after the fire. Which of course already has people wondering whether his defense is eventually going to lean into drugs or memory issues. And another detail the investigators noted is that Robert allegedly had what they described as a strong emotional response after learning that someone had died in the fire. And people are taking that in very different ways.

• 20:21Speaker 03

  Some people think that it was the guilt finally setting in and other people think that it was completely performative. And then there were others that think that drugs actually did play a much bigger role in this whole entire situation than even what we know right now. So Robert was arrested and at the time of this recording, his charges have not yet been announced. But honestly, this whole case feels just very unsettling because something that probably just started as a very uncomfortable and awkward situation is this man coming to profess his love to somebody within minutes turned deadly.

• 20:54Annie Elise?

  That is so terrifying. One of my biggest fears is being burned alive. And for everybody involved, not just unfortunately her, she was trapped, but everybody trying to escape like

• 21:06Speaker 03

  The poor woman hanging out of the window.

• 21:07Annie Elise?

  And the audacity of this guy, okay, you get rejected. So you're gonna what, like get lit up on fentanyl and then go start a fire?

• 21:14Speaker 03

  Well, it sounds like maybe he, I'm wondering if he started taking drugs or took the drugs to build the courage to go profess his love. And like when the rejection happened, maybe he like obviously reacted and like

• 21:27Annie Elise?

  Does fentanyl give you courage?

• 21:28Speaker 03

  I thought it made you tired.

• 21:30Annie Elise?

  I mean, I know it kills you, but like, and isn't it like heroin?

• 21:35Speaker 03

  That's what I mean. I felt like it was more, I don't know, but I thought it was more of like a drowsy. Um, drug, I didn't really feel like it's like a truth serum, like where you would wanna go and

• 21:45Annie Elise?

  What does fentanyl do for you if you choose to get high with it? We may end up needing to cut this out if it gets flagged, but this is educational YouTube, so don't come for me. Oh, no, it says intense euphoria, deep relaxation or sedation, that's right, pain relief, warm, heavy body feeling and drowsiness or nodding off. But of course, the dangerous side effects are slowed or stopped breathing, loss of consciousness, vomiting, all of those things.

• 22:13Speaker 03

  I mean, that doesn't align with setting a building on fire.

• 22:16Annie Elise?

  No, unless it's like just the, like the initial euphoria.

• 22:19Speaker 03

  And like, where did you have the supplies to do that? Did you bring that? So that would be all a question.

• 22:23Annie Elise?

  Was it premeditated? Not that the drugs make you an excuse for anything. I'm just trying to understand more.

• 22:28Speaker 03

  But I can't imagine, like, you're just a roommate in a building. I mean, how many of us rent or like live in, has lived in shared spaces and then it's like.

• 22:37Annie Elise?

  It's like, what's the saying? You never know your neighbors. You never know anybody. And it's like, you never know what kind of danger you could potentially be in because of a neighbor, not that it's her fault, obviously.

• 22:47Speaker 03

  A little bit of the story from last week, which is obviously a much different scenario, but it's just like people close to home when you're vulnerable and just feeling safe.

• 22:56Annie Elise?

  And if I need to say it again, don't do fentanyl. Oh, God, don't do any drugs because everything is cut with fentanyl now and it's so scary.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  I'm so terrified of that.

• 23:06Annie Elise?

  Yeah, you can't do anything. Not that you should ever, but like, it's just a very scary thing. So don't do drugs.

• 23:18Annie Elise?

  All right. I feel like we need to just have an honest conversation here in the circle of trust. Can we talk about how literally everything seems to be getting more expensive? Groceries, gas, rent, you name it. And apparently your wireless bill wants to join in on that party too. But here's the thing, it doesn't have to. Mint Mobile is making it so much easier to stop overpaying for wireless with plans starting at just 15 bucks a month. And you're not sacrificing quality either. All plans include high speed data, unlimited talk and text and access. To the nation's largest 5G network. You can also use your current phone and your current phone number. You just sign up online and you are good to go. Now, I changed carriers probably a year and a half ago at this point to Mint Mobile.

• 24:03Annie Elise?

  And when I tell you, not only was it the best decision of my life, I now have like service in places my husband doesn't even have service. But it was so easy. It took me 15 minutes, kept my phone, kept my phone number. It was the best. So for a new wireless plan, starting at 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com/ae. That's mintmobile.com/ae. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. This episode is sponsored by Chime. Get more of your money with Chime. With the Chime card, you get 5% cash back in a category of your choice with qualifying direct deposits. From gas to travel to dining.

• 24:44Annie Elise?

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• 25:37Annie Elise?

  Okay, so this next case is another one of a man where it's like, where do you even get the freaking audacity? Like, what is going on here? And when you step back and look at the full timeline, it really feels like the authorities may have stopped and intercepted a family annihilation from happening. Like, literally getting there right in the nick of time. And this too, like the story- Amy just shared with us, it all started with a romantic issue. This one was a breakup, so it wasn't a rejection, but you know, adjacent to that. According to reports, 37-year-old Brian Lanzin had been in a long-term relationship with the mother of his two kids, and on April 29th, she ended things with him over FaceTime.

• 26:20Annie Elise?

  However, investigators say that that conversation escalated fast, really, really fast. During that call, prosecutors say that Brian allegedly started making all kinds of threats, saying things like, "You don't know crazy yet, and you know, if I can't have you, no one can." And then, after she threatened to go to the police, Brian started texting her relentlessly, making threats against her family. According to court documents, he allegedly would text her things like, "If your father is there, I'm gonna have to take him out," saying that he would, quote, "Leave him pulseless in the driveway." He also said, "If you stand between me and my kids, I'm going to do what I need to do." So at one point, she says that she heard what sounded like a gun click, almost like

• 27:05Annie Elise?

  it was being loaded on the other end of the call, like he was getting prepared to, you know, load his weapon, get in the car, do what he was going to do. So immediately with that, she got scared enough that she contacted the police and filed a temporary restraining order, because she believed that Brian was now driving all the way from Maine to New Jersey with the intent of hurting her family, which that would have been an eight-hour drive. And based on what Brian was saying to her, even though it was going to be an eight-hour drive, she did not think that that was going to stop him. She said he sounded serious, and that that kind of trip was not out of the question for him. And according to investigators, that's exactly what happened.

• 27:44Annie Elise?

  Authorities say that Brian then drove the roughly eight hours from Maine to South Toms River, New Jersey, all while he was armed with multiple firearms and even a tactical vest. He also had around 15 large capacity magazines in his truck. So like, he was ready to reload, he was ready to get into a gunfight, he was wearing a tactical vest, like, he was prepared to do some- Pretty horrific damage. He was later described too as being quote, "ready for war", which, hearing about all of the guns and the amount of ammo that he had on him, it sounds pretty accurate that you're comparing him to somebody being ready for war. Thankfully though, at that point, the police were prepared.

• 28:26Annie Elise?

  They already had received that phone call. They knew that there was danger possibly coming in, and so they were prepared and they were already on the scene waiting for him to arrive. And sure enough, when he did turn up at the house, that's when things turned violent. Investigators say that he drove across the lawn directly toward the officers, got out with a gun in hand, and allegedly tried forcing his way into the house. Officers, of course, confronted him, ordered him to drop his weapon, but when he refused, the officer opened fire. Brian was shot multiple times, but I guess you would say unfortunately, in my opinion, survived. So he's now facing a massive list of charges, including attempted murder,

• 29:11Annie Elise?

  terroristic threats, burglary, multiple weapon offenses, and unlawful possession of body armor. Now, here is where the case starts to get a bit more complicated. Because prosecutors are saying that this was not just somebody spiraling after a breakup, and that Brian didn't just snap and have some sort of, you know, lash out crime of passion type things. They said that they believe that Brian intended to seriously hurt or kill his ex-girlfriend's family, all so that he could get custody of their children. And in court, prosecutors also said that he had allegedly been quote, "spiraling out of control for months",

• 29:53Annie Elise?

  especially after losing the job that he had moved to Maine for in the first place. However, we know that there's always two sides to every story, or two defense and a prosecution, and on the other side of this, his defense attorney is trying to paint a very different picture. She says that Brian has bipolar disorder, that he has been receiving psychiatric treatment in Maine, and was in the middle of a severe mental health crisis that was triggered by the breakup. And that that is what erupted into this entire scenario. Which honestly, though, when you look at the full timeline here, that's part of why this case, I think, is not only going viral online, but also hitting hard for a lot of the people online who are researching it, reading about it, seeing it in their feed.

• 30:36Annie Elise?

  Because regardless of the motive, people are looking at all of this and feeling like, okay, this came dangerously close to ending an entire family in an absolute horrific way. And we have seen a lot of family annihilator cases. I mean, hello, Chris Watts is like the number one mega one, right? But very rarely do we hear about the police intervening exactly when they should and stopping that from taking place. Can you imagine what would have happened if the police either said, "Okay, come into the station tomorrow morning. We'll file a report. We'll give you a restraining order, but, you know, there's not much more we can do. Call us if he breaks it." Or if they just decided not to go on the scene that night at all.

• 31:19Annie Elise?

  This could have and probably would have ended so differently. So I think that this is the blessing in disguise. I mean, I kind of wish he didn't survive the gunfire, if I'm being real with you. But, um, I mean, the fact that he had the commitment to, to drive the full eight hours to wipe out this family, it's incredibly scary. Mental health crisis or not, it's just diabolical.

• 31:44Speaker 03

  I mean, this was such a godsend that all the right things happened at the right time. Like, the mother, like, knew to call and not waste any time. The police did what they were supposed to do. But, and lately, we've been seeing cases where these people who are on a rampage go by multiple, um, homes and like, and it's saying if he's going to plan to kill the family so he can get custody, who knows where he would have stopped?

• 32:10Annie Elise?

  How far you go down that line, yeah, so that you are the one, the last one left.

• 32:14Speaker 03

  Because if he was that armed.

• 32:15Annie Elise?

  And like, no offense, but like, what do you think you're going to do having custody? Like, that is not the answer here, you know? Oh, my God. So scary.

• 32:23Speaker 03

  That is scary.

• 32:24Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 32:25Speaker 03

  Thank God everyone's safe.

• 32:26Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 32:26Speaker 03

  All right, so this next case out of Washington is one that a lot of people have been talking about because almost nothing makes sense at first glance. You've got a frantic 911 call in the middle of the night, a scene inside a home that investigators described as extremely violent, surveillance footage that raised a ton of questions, and a story that police now believe was something entirely different than what was first reported. This happened in Covington, Washington, involving a couple named Jody and Kyle Cathcart. And when I tell you the details coming out of these documents are horrifying, they are extremely horrifying. So this all started on May 1st when Kyle called 911 saying that someone had broken into their home

• 33:10Speaker 03

  and attacked both him and Jody. Deputies arrived and found Jody dead inside a bedroom. Kyle also had injuries, but were very minor compared to the severity of what had been done to Jody. Because while Kyle had some small cuts around his eye and on his abdomen, prosecutors say Jody had been stabbed 48 times. Almost immediately, investigators started feeling like things just weren't fully adding up. They looked at how incredibly violent Jody's injuries were compared to Kyle's much more minor injuries, and that there didn't appear to be obvious signs of a forced break-in. So as detectives started looking closer at the scene and trying to piece together what actually happened inside that house, they decided to take a look at the family's Ring camera footage.

• 33:55Speaker 03

  And according to police, that footage did show somebody leaving the house dressed in dark clothing, but there was no footage showing anyone entering the home beforehand. Investigators also noted in court documents that they found blood on the garage keypad, and pointed out that somebody familiar with the home and the garage code could have gone in the house and left that way without ever even appearing on the camera, which obviously raised a huge red flag if this was supposedly some random intruder breaking in. But even more suspicious, investigators say that the person seen leaving matched Kyle's height and build. And from there, the entire Home invasion stories started unraveling fast.

• 34:35Speaker 03

  Investigators say that Kyle eventually admitted that he had staged this entire scene to make it look like a burglary gone wrong. Investigators also found that dark clothing that was allegedly seen in the ring footage tossed into a neighbor's trash can nearby. So now the possible motive here is also something people have really been talking about because prosecutors claim that Kyle had been lying to Jody for years about receiving a massive financial payout. In fact, according to court documents, Jody allegedly believed Kyle was about to receive around $6 million from a lawsuit settlement. But investigators say that money didn't actually even exist and they believe he killed her before she could find out the truth.

• 35:18Speaker 03

  And then there's another detail from the court documents that has really stuck with people following this case because investigators referenced an incident from last year, looking back, that now people are seeing very differently. According to investigators, Kyle had told police about an incident in 2024 where he had taken the over the counter sleep aid Zekul one night and then woke up the next morning to Jody telling them that he had apparently tried to smother her in his sleep using a pillow wrapped in Saran Wrap. Now, to be clear, investigators have not yet said that this incident was directly connected to the case, but ever since that information became public, a lot of people have been wondering whether it may have been an earlier warning sign that something much darker was happening

• 36:01Speaker 03

  in that home long before all of this unfolded, or if medication could have induced some kind of weird sleep behavior that Kyle really didn't remember when waking up. The couple also had three young adoptive children under the age of eight, living in the home. And prosecutors say the children were in the home during the attack, which makes this whole thing even more devastating. So Kyle Cathcart is currently being held on a $60 million bond and is facing first degree murder charges with a deadly weapon enhancement. So as more court documents are coming out, people are paying very close attention to this case because the allegations here are obviously just very disturbing and kind of make you go like. Like what in the actual hell just happened?

• 36:45Annie Elise?

  I have a lot of questions about this case. First, yeah, what the hell happened? Why was his bail amount set so high if he doesn't have money?

• 36:54Speaker 03

  So did I saw you Google when I was reading, I did the same thing the first time. I'm like, it must be six million. And then I Googled and it was sixty million. And I thought, I've never heard of bail that high. Have you?

• 37:04Annie Elise?

  No, but what's unless it's like a crazy case with somebody incredibly wealthy. But what I think is also interesting is it what you had said, he had claimed that he was going to inherit or receive six million from the lawsuit settlement, which is the 10% that you would need to post for a bond amount. So is he really coming into six million somewhere, even though they said that's not real? And that's why they set it so high, because he does have money coming in.

• 37:30Speaker 03

  I don't know, but I was, I was confused about the sixty million also. That felt very high.

• 37:35Annie Elise?

  I mean, I'm glad it's high. He seems like a creep, obviously, but like, is there money there? I'm wondering.

• 37:41Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 37:42Annie Elise?

  Huh, that's interesting.

• 37:43Speaker 03

  I know. And then they were trying to blame it on the sleep medication, which I obviously know crazy things happen with sleep medication. But you're not, you're not wrapping a pillow in Saran Wrap. Trying to suffocate your wife.

• 37:56Annie Elise?

  Like on Z Quill, it actually did. I probably shouldn't say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway. It kind of made me think as you were saying that I was like, it's kind of the perfect crime because DNA usually is left behind on a pillowcase. If somebody's like breathing and you can get like the, the spray of like their saliva and like what's happening if you're suffocating them with a pillow with Saran Wrap. You would be able to take the Saran Wrap off and literally light it on fire and it would disintegrate.

• 38:18Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 38:20Annie Elise?

  I know. It's kind, I mean.

• 38:22Speaker 03

  Let's not advertise.

• 38:24Annie Elise?

  No, I know, but which I'm sure there's a way to get caught still, but like, you know, like, I haven't ever heard of a pillow being wrapped in Saran Wrap. And then I, I took it a step further in my mind.

• 38:32Speaker 03

  Let alone you came up with the plan while you were under the influence of an over the counter sleep aid. Well, that's, so that's what I was thinking. I know people have done some crazy stuff on Ambien.

• 38:41Annie Elise?

  Like Jay?

• 38:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was thinking of our brother who got undressed on a plane, just his shirt, but like on a.

• 38:46Annie Elise?

  Stripped down on a plane to Thailand.

• 38:48Speaker 03

  Hot and like had no memory of it. And I was sitting next to him. I'm like, sir, can you please put your shirt back on?

• 38:55Annie Elise?

  God. Yeah, Jay's kind of a wild flyer.

• 38:59Speaker 03

  But I've heard Ambien, like, do not ever take it if you think there's a chance you might be awake at any point while it's effective. You need to go like immediately to sleep and stay there.

• 39:08Annie Elise?

  So I also should not say this, but I'm going to. In my twenties, when I dated someone that starts with a K, I took Ambien pretty regularly to sleep. But you do start hallucinating if you stay awake. And there were a couple of times, I was in my early twenties, okay? Was I even? Yeah, I had turned 21, where like, I kind of tried to fight it a little bit, even being in bed, not like walking around like a zombie, but like, tried to fight it to like, feel the like hallucination a little bit. But yeah, it's like you do trip out and it's can be really scary.

• 39:43Speaker 03

  But would you have the wherewithal to come up with a murder plot?

• 39:47Annie Elise?

  Well, no, because that's not how my brain works. I was like, oh, I just want to see things look dizzy and spirally for a minute before I fall asleep to Desperate Housewives or whatever I was watching at the time, you know, which wasn't fair, but I'm doing a rewatch now, which why that's why it comes to mind. Okay. Homework time. Everybody clock in.

• 40:03Speaker 03

  I'm getting comfy.

• 40:04Annie Elise?

  It's time for school. So the homework was to watch the docu-series. It's a three-episode, three-parter called Should I Marry a Murderer? And let me give you a brief synopsis for those of you who had did not watch so that you can partake in the conversation. It takes place in Scotland and it's a woman who basically coming out of a really bad breakup. I think they were engaged possibly, I don't remember, but she comes out of a really bad breakup. She doesn't really have a lot of self-esteem. She's kind of spiraling. She's a pathologist, so she performs autopsies and find, you know, does all of the ME type stuff to figure out cause of death and all of those things. And she meets somebody on Tinder who she immediately hits it off with. He kind of love bombs her, if I'm being honest, but like, they hit it off. She drives out to his farm.

• 40:50Annie Elise?

  They are drinking a ton. They're doing drugs together and like, and I think the drug of choice was like weed and cocaine. They're like going off-roading together because the farm has like all of this land. They're in love. It's like this whirlwind romance. He ends up proposing to her after just a few months. She says yes, tells her family, tells her friend, orders a wedding dress with his mother, her future mother-in-law, and like, is just super excited, which you could kind of think initially like, sure, you're in love. It reads a little desperado because you just got out of a relationship and now you're like rushing into this new thing. Um, but whatever.

• 41:26Speaker 03

  And her friends and family were concerned.

• 41:28Annie Elise?

  They were. They were kind of like, this feels really fast, you know, like you just got out of something like, take a beat. We haven't even like not, people hadn't even really met this guy yet. Like it was incredibly fast. So then I forget exactly what had happened, but he basically, I think he what got really drunk one night and like confessed to her and for one reason or another, how he and his brother, his twin brother had been out drinking really late one night, were driving back to the farm on one of those, you know, two-way lane highways where nobody's out, it's super dark, there's not streetlights, and that there was a bicyclist, an older gentleman, I think in his late 50s, maybe early 60s, riding, he was actually riding a charity ride at the time, but it was like the middle of the night,

• 42:09Annie Elise?

  and they hit him. Then he said, we panicked, we didn't want to lose everything, I didn't want to go to jail. He was, he died on impact, so we buried him on the farm. And as it's, the story goes on, she's like showing, she documents everything on Snapchat and like would post, she's one of those people, if you probably have a friend or you follow someone who literally their phone is glued to their hand and they document their entire life through stories or TikToks or whatever, and she was doing that as well. So a lot of these were playing throughout the episode, which I will say made it more of a dynamic episode. But she then says that, um, you know, she was like shocked, she didn't know what to do, that she held this information, she knew that she needed to come forward, but she didn't like, she loved him, she was conflicted.

• 42:52Annie Elise?

  Then, I think a few weeks pass or something, he says to her, we need to move the body because somebody bought the farm and they're going to be doing construction, like, okay, I need you to help us, you obviously already know about this, and that that was like the turning point too, where she was kind of like, look, you know, I need to tell someone, this is bad. So she goes behind his back, she confides in her family, she tells the police, she sets up a wire situation, and basically gets all this information against him, he gets arrested, so does his brother, they don't say anything, so the charges are pending for months and months and months, um, or not the charges, the arrest, months and months and months go by. Meanwhile, he finds out she's the one who flipped on him, yet they still get back together, continue

• 43:35Annie Elise?

  Drinking together, doing drugs together, being in this fantasy world together, which she explains as being like in this love pocket before she knew that ultimately he was gonna go to jail or like it was all gonna blow up and she was just trying to live in that blissful moment while she could. Even though she had turned him in, he knew she turned him in and she knew he was a murderer. During all this too, she also finds out. As they're in this love bu- bubble, she's continuing to record him without his knowledge and he admits that when he hit this cyclist. He was still alive at the time. They then the brothers left him on the side of the road. Drove to the farm, changed clothes, grabbed tools, came back to where he was and at that point he was already dead and then they buried him.

• 44:18Annie Elise?

  So there definitely was a moment in which they could have called for emergency services. They could have intervened. They could have done something. But instead they chose to wait for him to die, which I believe, once the medical examiner looked at the well, I'm getting ahead of myself. Ultimately, they realized he did survive up to about twenty minutes after the impact. So she ends up like throwing a red, when he, she's like, okay, I'll help you move the body or whatever. But like we, they were out shooting, like skeet shooting on the farm. She's like, you need to tell me where it is. He said like right under your feet. She leaves a Red Bull can behind to identify the marker, tells the police, it's it's on the, here's the coordinates or whatever. There's, you'll see a Red Bull can start, you know, excavating.

• 45:01Annie Elise?

  Takes them a long time because I'm talking, this is like acres and acres and acres and acres of land, but they find the remains. That's when they ended up doing all the testing, figuring out that he could have survived twenty minutes after impact, whatever. So then he ends up ultimately getting arrested, charged, all of the things, just like his brother. However, I can't remember what the charges were. I feel like they weren't like that intense. I can't remember. What am I missing?

• 45:25Speaker 03

  So a few things.

• 45:27Annie Elise?

  Okay.

• 45:27Speaker 03

  You missed that the brother, so one thing I found interesting was that the brother warned Carolyn, the girlfriend. That the brother wasn't exactly who she thought and then he was the one who said. The gentleman was still alive.

• 45:42Annie Elise?

  Right. So not the boyfriend brother, the other brother. Yeah.

• 45:44Speaker 03

  The twin brother.

• 45:45Annie Elise?

  Yeah. He's the one who told her that he was still alive at the time.

• 45:48Speaker 03

  And the reason that Carolyn went back into the love bubble after knowing the information was because the police, which I'm sure you're going to dive into a little bit more, were not as supportive as she felt they should be in terms of like taking care of a witness, protecting her, like helping with her mental health while she was going through this trauma herself. And she, I think, felt very abandoned and lonely and like they were kind of the only ones and she that like understood what she was going through in this weird way. And, sorry, am I getting ahead of myself here? And I felt like also she felt a little, even to taking the love bombing to another

• 46:29Speaker 03

  level because she said, here, this guy knows that I told on him and did the right thing and doesn't blame me. Cause if you remember, he like, when he found out, he started coming to her apartment and she was afraid for her life. But when he got there, he was kind of like, I understood why you did this. Like you did the right thing. So she felt a little bit like, oh my God, this guy is owning what he did. He's not mad at me. We're kind of like in this together, if you will, which is a whole thing on its own.

• 46:59Annie Elise?

  So here's my hot take. Okay. And I don't know if you agree with me or if anybody will agree or whatever. It'll be interesting to see the comments. I don't think that she would have ever turned him in had he not asked her to then move the body. Because in those weeks, when she knew about it, but didn't, like, and she says in the interview, like, I knew I needed to do something, which it's like, that's easy to say after the fact, but she didn't actually come forward and say anything until he asked her to actively participate in it and make her an accessory. And I think that's what then triggered her. I think that had he not asked her to move the body, she would have stayed with him, would have married him. And would have just swept this under the rug 100%.

• 47:41Speaker 03

  So I think one of the details that I forgot, we didn't talk about that did bother her tremendously was in the very, so basically they were leaving, I thought it was like a family gathering or a friend gathering when they were driving home at night. And that's when they had this conversation of, well, now that we're going to marry each other, we should tell each other the worst thing that we've ever done so that we can like, accept each other and know everything about each other. I was shocked that he just came right out and said what he did. So to me, that felt like he wanted to tell that information. And then later you hear the brother who's like, warning her. But when he said the detail of he poured bleach all over the body, I think for her,

• 48:23Speaker 03

  that was also another reminder, not only, so it was first the bleach, because it's like, okay, you accidentally hit this man, you don't know what to do, you panic, but now you've buried this body, you're actively pouring bleach, that's, that's a conscious decision you're making. So I think I got the feeling that that was a huge moment for her and what I think led her to be so scared of him in those certain moments. And then secondly, to find out he was actually alive and there was a period where they could have saved him. So there were like conscious decisions of where he made some scary choices. And I felt like she was scared of him and that was part of why she was going to the police also. Cause when she told her parents, that was the first person she told, which kind of was surprising.

• 49:07Annie Elise?

  Yeah, I don't know. I'm conflicted because look, and I don't want to sound insensitive. Everybody deals with trauma differently and like, people suffer from PTSD and they like, get scared. And I get what you were saying too. Like she felt isolated, unsupported by the police. So she threw, she threw herself back in with the brothers. But like I said, there were so many pieces of media included that she had been recording in real time that I get it, people put on it, trauma makes you do crazy things where you act a certain way, you even think you're happy and it tricks your mind and all these things. But when I was watching that, seeing those videos, even after she learned from the brother that the man had been alive and that they intentionally left him to die for those 20 minutes or whatever, she still

• 49:50Annie Elise?

  is sleeping with him, happy in these videos, doing lines of coke with him, partying with him. And again, I get that your mind will do different things and trick you, but like, I think it was kind of going back to like the very beginning of why she even got in that relationship, a little bit like desperate and looking for something and yearning for something. And so she wasn't willing to let it go, rather than I'm gonna go undercover and like continue to get information on them. And like, because the police aren't doing it, I'm gonna do it. And like, it felt more like she wanted to still be in this love pocket.

• 50:23Speaker 03

  Oh, a hundred percent. But I, I don't know. I mean, who's to say, but I don't think she would have, I personally didn't get the feeling that like, that was the only catalyst for her coming forward was that he acted, asked her to participate. I think that was definitely probably a huge factor. But the going back after she knew about it, I think, I mean, her friends had like, she was a shell of a person, like unrecognizable. The police were not offering her any sort of support.

• 50:51Annie Elise?

  She was on so many drugs too.

• 50:52Speaker 03

  And so she turned to drugs and alcohol. I think she was self medicating. I think all those videos were more a function of her like, being out of her mind a little bit and like documenting it and like, being in denial. And I think like, you see people in like, I mean, this is not the same thing, but in abusive relationships where they know what they're doing is they're in a bad situation, but they're posting the happy photos online. And they're, so I mean, I think she was probably a little bit in denial of like.

• 51:17Annie Elise?

  Well, actually, you know, we didn't even mention this part. Once it finally came time for the trial, she was the number one witness, and she didn't show up to testify. She fled on drugs and drinking, went to the farm, which was far, like hours away from her house.

• 51:34Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 51:34Annie Elise?

  Went to the farm, stole a tractor, was determined to find, what was she looking for?

• 51:38Speaker 03

  It was the bicycle.

• 51:38Annie Elise?

  The bicycle in the waterfall, because he disposed of it in the waterfall. And they never were able to find it. So she's like, I'm gonna find this too. Like, thinking that that was gonna be the smoking gun, even though she was set to testify that day. And that actually is why, because she didn't show up to testify, they reduced the charges because she was an unreliable witness. And that's, remember, they dropped the murder charge then. And so they only ended up getting a few years because she didn't go and testify. So then my mind, like, I agree with her. I think she was out of her mind. I think she was under, you know, under the influence of a lot of substances and like, losing her mind a bit, especially to like, there was a manhunt then for her when she didn't show up at court. And she stole the tractor, did all these things. But.

• 52:21Annie Elise?

  Part of me was kind of like, felt like she's been in love with him this whole time and even staying with him after all this. Is she now doing this to intentionally taint the case? And is that why the boys are acting so smug in court? Because she's trying to, I don't, like, something just didn't land for me.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  Well, that's where I feel like she was, I don't, I don't think she was even like in a battle with herself. I don't know if she was that conscious of it, but it was crazy because yeah, she's in this like love bubble where again, I think it's like, we all know how this is going to end, but let's just enjoy the moment while we can, if you will. And then when it came down to it and they were going to get, uh, when they went to court, I think they didn't have enough evidence or they're that missing piece in order to get their sentence.

• 53:04Annie Elise?

  But they had their confessions on tape.

• 53:06Speaker 03

  But they needed the bike or something.

• 53:07Annie Elise?

  No, they didn't need the bike. The bike would have just secured like, so like secured.

• 53:12Speaker 03

  Made it more secure because she, the reason she fled was, I felt like she had a plan was to go get that bike. And it was to then further the case to get them in trouble. So then I'm like, but if you're trying to reduce their sentence.

• 53:23Annie Elise?

  But I think it was an excuse. I don't know. I do.

• 53:26Speaker 03

  Oh, you don't believe she was actually going to get the bike?

• 53:28Annie Elise?

  No. I think maybe, I think maybe she was, or maybe she was like pretending to look for the bike or like going off on like, what? Like the fact that you're not showing up as like a, a witness and you're the key witness who has, who heard the confessions firsthand, who has the recorded confessions after the fact, all of these things. And you're not showing up and then you're going all the way to the farm on a tractor, drinking and like doing all these things. I get she's saying it was to like help the case and yeah, to like secure it and secure their conviction. But like, you are not the one who was going to, like, that's, doesn't fall on you.

• 54:03Speaker 03

  I mean, it was a crazy thought.

• 54:05Annie Elise?

  I don't know. I, there's something about it. I just cannot put my finger on it.

• 54:08Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 54:09Annie Elise?

  I don't think we're seeing the whole story. So that's what I wanted to ask you and I do, my opinion, maybe it's a hot take, I think. She would have married him and kept his secret and taken it to the grave had he not asked her to help him move the body.

• 54:25Speaker 03

  Okay, well, I have another question for you because I thought it was gonna end in a completely different way. I thought in the interview-

• 54:30Annie Elise?

  They were gonna get married when he like-

• 54:31Speaker 03

  Yes, I thought the sentence was five years and then that's why the question is the title, should I marry a murderer? Like, he's accepted, cuz that was another thing. It was like he completely owned up to what he did. He, I felt they were remorseful and sorry. I think they never blamed Carolyn. In fact, they were still friendly with her and on good terms, both the brother and him. So I, I almost felt a sense of relief from them that they were caught and this was out in the open. So it's like, if they truly just made this tremendous error in judgment, and they did their time, and they owned it, and they're not denying anything, and now he wants to marry her. That's what I thought the question was. And so I was like,

• 55:15Speaker 03

  oh, my gosh, like, what a crazy position to be in.

• 55:18Annie Elise?

  I would not be shocked if when he's released-

• 55:22Speaker 03

  She married someone else.

• 55:23Annie Elise?

  She did?

• 55:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:24Annie Elise?

  Oh, maybe I didn't see that part.

• 55:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's why I was so shocked, cuz I thought that's what it was. Yeah, she's with somebody else, and she's like, I'm in a happy relationship now. And she was like, so thankful that interview was over. So, that's what I was thinking.

• 55:35Annie Elise?

  I don't know, there's something, you guys tell me if you've watched it, or if you're going to watch it after this, there's something that makes me feel like we're not, and of course, we never get the full story, we're getting one perspective, one narrative, but like, there's something off about it to me, and I can't quite figure it out. It was good, though. It was very good. I think you guys should watch it. You don't like it?

• 55:54Speaker 03

  No, I liked it. I felt like in the beginning, it was a little hard to watch, but I think that's cuz I usually multitask, and I needed to focus. But like, it kind of, yeah, it made you think, I, I really thought at the end, that's where we were going with it. And I was thinking, not that it would be a difficult decision for me, but I could imagine people who are really looking for love, and they have this person who-

• 56:13Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 56:13Speaker 03

  Owned it and served their time, like, would they consider?

• 56:17Annie Elise?

  To why, I think we need to do more homework episodes.

• 56:19Speaker 03

  And is he, I mean, is he a murderer?

• 56:21Annie Elise?

  Yes. 100%. What do you mean?

• 56:24Speaker 03

  Well, yes, I mean, I think they said he's, I can't remember the charges, but it was like,

• 56:29Annie Elise?

  They pulled that one off, and I think it was something about like not like the disposal or hiding a crime and lying to police and all these things. But yeah, he's a murderer. He left him there to die.

• 56:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:39Annie Elise?

  And then buried him for years. Like, yeah, years went by where people were looking for this man.

• 56:43Speaker 03

  Yes, I mean, that's what I think. I think of his poor family. And I, to me, I mean, there'd be a lot of motivators to come forward and tell the truth, but his family would be the number one is that they deserve to know and

• 56:54Annie Elise?

  Right.

• 56:55Speaker 03

  put him to rest. Absolutely. So I mean, thank God they got that.

• 56:59Annie Elise?

  I know. Well, there you go. Let me know what you guys think about that case. If you've watched the docu-series, again, it's Should I Marry a Murderer? And it's on Netflix. And that's what we've got for you for headline highlights today. But I do, I will have that Haunt of Iris bonus episode for you tomorrow. It'll be right here on this feed. And we'll go, we're gonna go through everything, like the timeline, the, um, what it, what the virus even is, how you contracted, the symptoms, all of those things. And then I will be back with you with a deep dive on Monday morning. As a reminder, if you missed it, we also put out a brand new episode on Tuesday of this week, but it's on my second podcast feed, 10 to Life. So go over there. It's the case of Mariah Wilson. We went way deeper

• 57:43Annie Elise?

  than Netflix did. Sorry, Netflix, no shade, kinda. But it's about a love triangle, plastic surgery to go in hiding. You know, a sinister plot, all sorts of crazy stuff. So that is available right now for you. All right, guys, until the next one. Be nice. Don't kill people. Take rejection if it comes your way. Just take it humbly and move along.

• 58:09Speaker 03

  Don't do fentanyl.

• 58:10Annie Elise?

  Don't do fentanyl. And don't go to the Bahamas, I guess. I know, I love the Bahamas.

• 58:14Speaker 03

  Don't take a dinghy out if you're on bad terms with somebody.

• 58:17Annie Elise?

  I hate the word dinghy more than anything, honestly. Like, I hate it every time.

• 58:20Speaker 03

  Don't go out in nature if you're in a tiff with somebody.

• 58:23Annie Elise?

  Never, never.

• 58:24Speaker 03

  Just stay home.

• 58:25Annie Elise?

  Just stay home, just stay home. All right, guys, bye.

• 58:40Speaker 05

  Hey, this is Will Arnett, host of Smartless. Smartless is a podcast with myself and Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman, where each week, one of us reveals a mystery guest of the other two. We dive deep with guests that you love, like Bill Hader, Selena Gomez, Jennifer Aniston, David Beckham, Kristen Stewart, and tons more. So join us for a genuinely improvised and authentic conversation filled with laughter and newfound knowledge to feed the smartless mind. Listen to Smartless now on the SiriusXM app. Download it today.

• 59:16Speaker 06

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