#158: All or Nothing Won't Work - Representative Jason Crow (CO-6)

The job of America’s elected leaders is to get things done. The democratic process isn’t always pretty and almost never leaves everyone happy; but the effectiveness of our government and America’s stature as the world’s dominant superpower rest on Congress’s ability to find common ground on the issues. Representative Jason Crow https://crow.house.gov/ served in the United States Army 75th Ranger Regiment. He is now the Ranking Member of the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Intelligence and Special Operations. In his 4th term representing Colorado’s 6th district he’s looking to return power to the hands of Congress and has found himself at the center of many of America’s most controversial and important Congressional matters; an area he has learned to navigate through his previous leadership of the For Country Caucus https://withhonor.org/for-country-caucus/, a bipartisan alliance of military veterans serving in the House of Representatives. Congressman Crow joined Fran Racioppi https://www.linkedin.com/in/francisracioppijr/ to share just how he balances the most polarizing issues facing both sides of the aisle; including the investigation into the withdrawal from Afghanistan, the impeachment of President Donald Trump and the inquiry into the pre-election assassination attempts. We discussed the impact of budget and personnel cuts to Special Operations and why it’s more important now than ever to invest in our SOF capability to prevent the next major conflict. We also covered border security, the use of active duty military in the enforcement of the border and how countering the cartels and the drug trade aren’t a new mission for Special Operations. Watch, listen or read our conversation from Congressman Crow’s office. Don’t miss our full coverage from Capitol Hill. Special thanks to For Country Caucus https://withhonor.org/for-country-caucus/ for setting up this series. The Jedburgh Podcast is brought to you by University of Health and Performance https://university-hp.com/, developing the next generation of fitness entrepreneurs from our Veterans. The Jedburgh Podcast is an official program of The Green Beret Foundation https://greenberetfoundation.org/. HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 Introduction02:07 Jumping into D-Day03:00 Rangers Lead The Way04:35 Colorado 6th District06:05 Veterans lead the 119th Congress11:28 Role of SOF moving forward 13:10 Cutting SOF funding16:30 Defending critical infrastructure18:40 The Immigration Challenge23:35 Special Forces on the border25:45 Working across the aisle QUOTES “If everyone digs in and takes an all or nothing mentality…everybody gets nothing.”“Congress has given away its authority for decades.” “The CT threat is not gone.” “We are building systems now…that will be completely ineffective on the battlefield of the future.” “You build political will by leading. That’s in part our job.” “If someone is committing violent crime in our community, they have no place in our community.” “There has to be a pathway to citizenship for folks who are living peacefully in our community.” Follow the Jedburgh Podcast https://www.instagram.com/jedburghpodcast/ and the Green Beret Foundation https://www.instagram.com/greenberetfoundation/ on social media. Listen on your favorite podcast platform https://pod.link/1558608802, read on our website https://greenberetfoundation.org/jedburghpodcast/investing-in-military-infrastructure-jumping-in-with-arkansas-senator-john-boozman, and watch the full video version on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@jedburghpodcast as we show why America must continue to lead from the front, no matter the challenge. The opinions presented on the The Jedburgh Podcast and the Jedburgh Media Channel are the opinions of my guests and myself. They do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Green Beret Foundation and the Green Beret Foundation assumes no liability for their accuracy, nor does Green Beret Foundation endorse any political candidate or any political party.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Fran Racioppi?

  The job of America's elected leaders is to get things done. The democratic process isn't always pretty and almost never leaves everyone happy. But the effectiveness of our government and America's stature as the world's dominant superpower rests on Congress's ability to find common ground on the issues, both foreign and domestic. Representative Jason Crowe served in the United States Army's 75th Ranger Regiment. He's now the ranking member of the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Intelligence and Special Operations. In his fourth consecutive term representing Colorado's 6th District, he's looking to return power to the hands of Congress and has found himself at the center of many of America's most controversial and important congressional matters, an area he's learned to navigate through his previous leadership of the Four Country Caucus, a bipartisan alliance of military veterans serving in the House of Representatives.

• 0:47Fran Racioppi?

  Congressman Crowe joined me to share just how he balances the most polarizing issues facing both sides of the aisle, including the investigation into the withdrawal from Afghanistan, the impeachment of President Donald Trump, and the inquiry into the pre-election assassination attempts. We discussed the impact of budget and personnel cuts to Special Operations, and why it's more important now than ever to invest in our soft capability to prevent the next major conflict. We also covered border security, the use of active-duty military in the enforcement of the border, and how countering the cartels and the drug trade aren't a new mission for Special Operations. Watch, listener, read our conversation from Congressman Crowe's office. Don't miss our full coverage from Capitol Hill. Special thanks to the Four Country Caucus for setting up this series. The Jedberg Podcast is brought to you by University of Health and Performance, providing

• 1:31Fran Racioppi?

  our veterans world-class education and training as fitness and nutrition entrepreneurs. Follow the Jedberg Podcast and the Green Beret Foundation on social media. Listen on your favorite podcast platform, read on our website, and watch the full video version on YouTube as we show why America must continue to lead from the front no matter the challenge. The opinions presented on the Jedberg Podcast and the Jedberg Media Channel are the opinions of my guests and myself. They do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Green Beret Foundation, and the Green Beret Foundation assumes no liability for their accuracy, nor does Green Beret Foundation endorse any political candidate or any political party.

• 2:08Fran Racioppi?

  Representative Crowe, welcome to the Jedberg Podcast.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Fran, I'm glad to do this. This is way overdue. So finally, you know, after listening to a bunch of your casts, finally able to be with you.

• 2:18Fran Racioppi?

  Well, last time I saw you was on the drop zone in Normandy.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  It was.

• 2:21Fran Racioppi?

  We were trying to corral you in and we had to let you go. We had, we got to talk to Mike Waltz.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:26Fran Racioppi?

  Which was awesome, but that was a cool experience.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  That was so cool. A second time I had done that. The first time was in 2019 during the 75th anniversary. And then this past June, so I'm in the habit of, I think every five years, so all the, all the big five year remembrances. So it was awesome. It was a bipartisan jump, as you know. So I think we had, what, eight or nine members of Congress up from just two, because Mike Waltz and I were the only ones who did it in 2019. And then it's kind of taken off since then.

• 2:56Fran Racioppi?

  Well, they're all, they're all trying to follow you because, you know, I mean, Rangers lead the way.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  All the way.

• 3:01Fran Racioppi?

  So they don't look as cool.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Is that the first time a Green Beret has ever said that?

• 3:04Fran Racioppi?

  No, because I went to Ranger School. I'm like, some of my compatriots, yes, I went and graduated Ranger Schools.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  I thought, how many Green Berets aren't, don't have the tab?

• 3:14Fran Racioppi?

  If you are on the commissioned officer side, almost everybody, I think I know like one person in my career who may not have had it. On the enlisted side, I think it's, you end up having to go like at the senior levels, if you haven't gone. So at the more senior levels, Sergeant Major and like the E8 level, do you see a lot of it? At the junior level, you don't. And I always encouraged my guys to go because even though this is a program of the Green Beret Foundation, I will tell you that the best school in the Army is Ranger School.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  It is. I agree with you. What, what class were you?

• 3:50Fran Racioppi?

  I was 105.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Okay. I'm 1002.

• 3:53Fran Racioppi?

  Okay.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  I was, so we're both winter Rangers.

• 3:56Fran Racioppi?

  Yes.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  Which matters.

• 3:57Fran Racioppi?

  It sucks.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  It's really damn cold. Georgia gets cold. So does Florida. No one believes us.

• 4:05Fran Racioppi?

  We were breaking ice on Malvesti and it was snowing in the mountains and it was, it was like, you know, 51 and 51 because you know, below 50 50, water and air, you don't go in the water. We were like 51 51.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  Okay. I mean, I still like get the shakes and get cold to my core every time somebody serves blueberry pancakes to me. And it's just like, I can't, I can't do it. Just can't.

• 4:29Fran Racioppi?

  And they're so disgusting.

• 4:33Fran Racioppi?

  Well, look, we got to talk about Congress. We got to talk about what's going on in the world. So special shout out to the four country caucus. They have invited us back. I guess we did a good job. The first round when we were here before the election, we had a chance to sit down with a number of the members. They've invited us back. You serve in the 75th Ranger Regiment. You serve in the 82nd Airborne, multiple combat tours. You represent Colorado six district, which is also important because when I was in 10th group and fourth ID, I lived in Castle Rock.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. Is that right? So just, I'm just above it. Like Castle Rock is just outside of my district by a couple of miles. So beautiful spot, beautiful area.

• 5:08Fran Racioppi?

  But you've got Littleton, Centennial, Aurora. I mean, that's where we had to go.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Englewood, Sheridan. So yeah, that whole, that whole like Southern metro region is my district, which is a fascinating district because A, it's a military community because we have Buckley Space Force Base. There's over 10,000 both uniformed and non-uniform folks that work at that. It's one of our largest intelligence centers in the, in the world, actually. And then we have a big defense and aerospace industry. I have over 260 businesses, the work in the defense, aviation, aerospace that employs tens of thousands of my constituents, over 70,000 veterans in the community. So it's a pretty fascinating place.

• 5:47Fran Racioppi?

  And you have the Denver Tech Center.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, Denver Tech Center.

• 5:50Fran Racioppi?

  Which is massive. You serve on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, as well as the House Armed Services Committee, and you're the ranking member on the Subcommittee on Intelligence and Special Operations. So you served in SOF, I served in SOF. This is a SOF based podcast. We're going to start there.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 6:06Fran Racioppi?

  There are a hundred veterans in Congress. Congress in the 119th Congress, it's the most in eight Congresses. Veterans care about results and they care about teamwork. That I think that's one of the biggest lessons we take out of our military service. I did see a ranking for you that said you were the 15th most politically right Democrat. Of I don't know how they rank those. I don't know where that data comes from, but here's what we do know is that you've been extremely bipartisan in your time in Congress. And it's been critically important to advocate for our veterans and for national security. As you look across this now large percentage, almost 20% of when you combine the two houses of Congress of being a veterans.

• 6:47Fran Racioppi?

  How do you expect the 119th Congress to come together and be led by veterans to form bipartisan community to bring America together?

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I'm so glad that you have highlighted the four country caucus. We actually generally call it the bipartisan veterans caucus because when we, when we're out in their communities, we're like, I, I belong to the four country caucus. And they're like, well, which four countries are involved in that? Like, no, it's the bipartisan veterans caucus. So, but it's a great caucus. Last Congress, I was the Democrat co-chair. So we, we self govern ourselves. We switch out. We kind of believe in rotating leadership and switching folks out. So it was me and Tony Gonzalez, Republican from South Texas. Tony's been on. So, you know, good guy, notwithstanding his, his Navy roots. But, uh, I gotta do it. I gotta say it.

• 7:35Fran Racioppi?

  He was a cryptologist. I don't even know what that does.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  I, I did not do as well. I, clearly he did better on those and the ASVAB than I did.

• 7:42Fran Racioppi?

  All of us.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Because like he took the test and like, oh, cryptologists. I took the test and like, oh, infantry.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Go, but you know, we, we both turned out all right. But yeah, this is a great caucus. We actually started it in 2018. Many of us came in, it was like the largest influx of vets in that class of 2018 that we had had in decades. And we came together and said, you know, this place is not working. The culture is not working, right? You can, you can talk all you want about rules and procedure, but like the culture is not working. And the culture being if everybody digs in and takes a, you know, all or nothing mentality, my way or the highway. That you get, you get nothing. Everybody gets nothing and that's just not going to work. So we are not a caucus just of moderates. Like there's people on the right, there's people on the left, there's people in the middle. Our dedication is to finding the common ground,

• 8:31Speaker 01

  whether it's 10%, 15%, 20%. And guess what? It works. We've passed, as you've pointed out, over 100 bills in the time we've been together doing the work and it's phenomenal. It's a really great place and we hope to set the example, the standard for the rest of the country and for Congress that this can work, right? That we can actually get back to having some discussion and frankly, reasserting congressional authority. And you know, I will probably get to that in a minute. Congress, I think, is at an all point, well, certainly in my lifetime, a weak point. And the presidency is at an all time strong point. And I think the constitutional balance is out of whack right now. I think it's because Congress has given away its authority for decades,

• 9:13Speaker 01

  right? Republican and Democratic Congresses have done it and they've done it to Republican and Democratic presidents. We have constantly given away our authority, whether it's on the Immigration and Naturalization Act, whether it's on issues of war powers, right? You know, it's Congress's role to debate and decide when to send us into war, right? That is Congress's role. And there are very narrow exceptions from the president can, on his own, use his authority to do so. That has gotten way out of whack and Congress has allowed that, frankly, allowed it to happen. So, you know, I'm of the view and there's a fair amount of bipartisanship on this. It's time for Congress to reassert its control, to actually have debates and to be held accountable, right? Why do we have a 20-year war in Iraq and Afghanistan, both of which didn't

• 9:57Speaker 01

  end well, which is a longer conversation? It's because we stopped debating it. There was virtually no discussion, public discussion. It certainly wasn't a part of our elections, right? Because we were financing it with debt. We were doing it with an all volunteer force. Folks, you know, most folks, with the exception of a few, weren't feeling it. It wasn't a part of our political rhetoric. So my view is return that power back to Congress, hold us accountable. Every two years, we're up for election. We need to be voting on this stuff and we need to be going back home and telling people why we're voting the way we are.

• 10:32Fran Racioppi?

  Well, you brought up the war, the two wars and the 20 years of global war on terror. You know, I think we, everybody who served in whatever component of the military all served admirably and did, I think, a great job in fighting for the nation. You know, we could argue and debate, you know, the root causes behind it, but you know, we have to give credit where it's due. But we also know that special operations carried a big component of both of those wars. And what is the job of special operations? I would say outside of counterterrorism is that they need to operate left of bang in the areas that prevents the conflict. How do we work with partner nations and our allies to develop them and keep wars and conflict off of our soil?

• 11:15Fran Racioppi?

  But also, we need to keep the term near in near peer. And I think they play a big role of that.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally right.

• 11:22Fran Racioppi?

  As you sit on the Subcommittee on Intelligence and Special Operations as the ranking member, what do you see as the role of SOF over the next five or 10 years? As we look at both threats in counterterrorism in the peer near peer fight?

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, we spent, and I know I'm preaching to the choir here, you know, two decades mainly on a CT mission. Right? And we restructured, we trained that way, our doctrine evolved around that. And now that's rapidly shifting back to the near peer threat, right? And great power competition. Number one, the CT threat is not gone, right? We still do have a CT threat. It's going to be a smaller percentage of the mission and it needs to be because we can't do all things. And we actually have capability and capacity of addressing the CT threat, not by having boots on the ground everywhere and having large scale troop formations in multiple countries. So we can address that. But the foreign internal defense mission, getting back to the roots of the Green Beret,

• 12:18Speaker 01

  you know, as envisioned by John F. Kennedy when he created you all, that is going to be so powerful because I believe really strongly that our greatest strength, other than our people, our incredible troops is our partners, right? It is the envy and you know why I know that? Because Russia and China desperately want what we have. They desperately want a NATO like alliance, a quad.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  And AUKUS, you know, all of these alliance structures we built up and they've tried really hard to build them and have largely failed. So we're the envy of the world in that and the ability to, you know, capacity build and use the force multiplying effect of our soft forces and not necessarily be doing direct action ourselves, although there is a time and place for that and that's not going to go away, is going to be really powerful. You know, that enabling mission.

• 13:07Fran Racioppi?

  So one of the things that I've spoken with the commanders and the senior leaders across SOCOM is that they've been directed to reduce some forces. They've had money cut from the appropriations committee that has gone in the soft. That money, a lot of it has gone into the development of long range strike capability, deep strike capability and investment in the, in the other components. How do they continue to remain at the tip of the spear if the directive is, hey, you gotta cut forces and you gotta take money away?

• 13:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, they can't is the short answer. And I think it would be a huge mistake to do that and will resist it. There's a lot of people who will resist that. Listen, we are nearing a $1 trillion defense budget, right? And you look at how that is spent right now, the proportion of that. And there's all sorts of discussion here in Washington about, you know, plus ups, 5% increases, we need to increase the top line. And there, there isn't near enough discussion, although there's starting to be about internal reform because there is tens of billions, hundreds of billions over multiple years of wasted money, right? We build, we are building systems now and procuring systems that will be completely ineffective on the battlefield of the future, right? We spend so much money on things from

• 14:24Speaker 01

  the last wars, you know, the wars of 20 or 30 years ago. It's gotta stop. It just has to stop. We're wasting taxpayer dollars. We're wasting time. Our adversaries aren't doing it. And listen, you know, the fact that we have, everyone loves to see these aircraft carriers. It's a show of strength. It makes good videos and they look great. But guess what? We spend billions of dollars, tens of billions, building and maintaining these things and they can be knocked out with a $1 million cruise missile, right? It's in So we have to be making hard decisions and we have to be pushing DOD to respond to different incentives. And actually, those incentives, those demand signals have to be sent by Congress, right? DOD is actually a rational organization. It responds to

• 15:06Speaker 01

  demand signals. It responds to the incentives that we push out, that we send it. And if we just keep on pumping money into that system, there's zero incentive for change. So let's stop. Let's say you've got to be able to pass an audit. You got to be able to show us how you're spending your money and what you're spending it on. And you got to show us how everything that we're doing right now will deliver results on the battlefield now and in the future. And I guarantee you, there are tremendous savings and efficiencies that we can then use for things like SOF, which have proven ability to have impact on the battlefield.

• 15:38Fran Racioppi?

  So you mentioned the term battlefield. And I think that when we look at the, what we've called the next battlefield, we could define that a number of different ways. And we always, I think, being GWAT veterans, we think about, you know, more of land. But the battlefield, as we look at our competition with China, can be across the dime spectrum of national power, you know, diplomatic, information, military, and economic power. And I think that's really important to look at. But one of the areas where SOF-

• 16:04Speaker 01

  It's actually a great point, actually. It's a huge point, that that definition is expanded, right? Not just in a kinetic way, but you know, every electrical outlet, every computer terminal is a battlefield, every satellite, right? It's all part of the battlefield. Our adversaries certainly are treating it that way, but also the so-called soft power, right? The aid, the diplomacy, all the things that prevent conflict and build our alliances.

• 16:28Fran Racioppi?

  Transitioning out of the military is about more than polishing a resume or attending a LinkedIn workshop. It's about rediscovering your purpose and forging a new path that's worthy of your service. At the University of Health and Performance, veterans are offered transformative GI Bill-approved programming designed to help take them to the next level with confidence. Nestled in the heart of the Ozarks, their 800-acre, all-inclusive campus features world-class training facilities, modern living spaces, and miles of trails for reflection and growth. Here, veterans find a structured, immersive environment where they can explore their strengths, develop new skills, and build a life that not only honors their past, but prepares the future. I'm gonna ask you, because you kind of went there. Do we have the will, though?

• 17:12Fran Racioppi?

  Because you brought up the electrical outlets, everything. We just had a great conversation with Representative Fluger about this, where I asked him about denial of service attacks. Because that's a huge threat. And I had a chance to sit down and interview the Boeing, former Boeing Chief Security Officer. And he said, the biggest threat we have today is denial of service attacks. So how do we build capability across the whole of government for something like shutting off the water, shutting off the power, contaminating the air?

• 17:43Speaker 01

  You mean defending against that? Yeah, well, that's a leadership challenge, right? That's what leaders are supposed to be doing, right? And I need to reframe the discussion about, you know, how do we build political will? You build political will by leading, right? That's in part our job. We have both a function of responding to the needs of our district. That is the primary function, right? Is to advocate for our districts and our constituents, to help bring federal funding to respond to their needs. But we also need to communicate as leaders the direction things are going. And we need to make the case that that big shifts are necessary in how we're allocating resources, right? That is what leaders do. They don't simply respond. They got to be out front. And then we have to be helping shape that debate because we're not doing it enough.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  So when we talk about political will, it's not, I don't view that as a passive term. That's an active term. And it's a term that if you're an elected official, you need to be engaged in and helping to build that will because it's dangerous, right? Our adversaries, you know, China and others, they don't want a war with the United States. Although they are building aggressive forces and there's issues of Taiwan, I think they want a war potentially with others. What they want to do, they never want to go ship for ship, plane for plane. They want to completely cut off our ability to move, shoot, communicate, and do everything necessary before one bullet is ever fired, right? So that is what they're trying to do. That's how they're investing their money. That's how they're building their infrastructure. And if we don't defend against that

• 19:13Speaker 01

  and build our defenses and build our resiliency against that, we'll be in real trouble.

• 19:18Fran Racioppi?

  One of the areas that's been hotly discussed, I'd say, For I don't know the last four years and certainly through the election cycle and over the last couple of weeks is immigration. Your district came front and center on a lot of the immigration discussions because of the Venezuelan gangs that were reported to be operating across Aurora primarily. And now what we've seen are these mass deportations since the Trump administration has come in into power. But some of this has also been tied to potential terrorist activity and, you know, do we know who's coming the country? What's your assessment of the border situation right now and how it's affected your district?

• 20:01Fran Racioppi?

  And I know that you were vocal about not using Buckley Space for, I used to call it Buckley Air Force Base.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Buckley Space Force Base, yeah.

• 20:10Fran Racioppi?

  It's hard to get that term down, but not using that for mass deportation. But you've also been very vocal about, hey, look, if they're here illegal, they gotta go.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, you know, I'm a national security Democrat. I'm a public safety Democrat. I believe in in public safety and law and order. And if someone is committing violent crime in our community or is a danger to our community, they they have no place in our community and they have no place in Colorado. Right? And I actually don't know of anybody, nor have I spoken to anybody that says, yeah, if there's a violent offender, we shouldn't sweep them up and detain them. And if they don't have status, deport them, get them out. Right? That is not up for debate, in my view. But that's also not what we're talking about when we're talking about mass deportation. So I will loop back to that. I have one of the most diverse districts in the nation. Nearly 20% of my constituents were born outside of the United States. I have over 130

• 21:01Speaker 01

  languages spoken in my public school system. And these are folks from all over, right? And they're business owners. They work in our industries. They're a fundamental part of our economy and our workforce. They're our neighbors. They're our friends. Right? And they live, we all live, within a fundamentally broken immigration system, broken in every single way. Right? We talk about border security and that consumes a lot of the discussion and I'm concerned about it, too. Like, we need border security. We do not have border security. The border needs to be secure. And there's smart ways of doing that effectively. And there's dumb ways of doing that. And, you know, I'm a big fan of George Patton and Right. And like one of Patton's famous quotes was, you know, fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Right. Cause he knows in history that, you know, no fortress, no wall, you know, whether you're talking about Hadrian's Wall or, or the Maginot Line. Nothing can't be overcome, right? You can't go up over, around something, right? And you pour all these monies and money into things. So what we know is that there are ways with technology, with surveillance, with ISR, with personnel of actually securing border in space. Right. So let's have a discussion about how to do that. Okay. Cause I'm concerned about terrorism too. That's one. Two, there has to be a pathway to citizenship for folks who are, are living peacefully within our community. Which is the vast, vast majority, vast majority that own businesses, own homes that are fundamental to our economy, that are following the rules and want to normalize their status.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Right. That's actually good for all of us. Right. So let's have that discussion. And, and we actually had the ability to do that. With a bipartisan deal that we heavily negotiated last Congress that was killed by the president, by President Trump. So that's two. And three is because I have such a diverse community, very few people are talking about the visa issue. There is talent. You know, people still want to live in the United States because we have great quality of life. We're still the envy of the world. We have wonderful innovation. The American dream is something that, that people around the world still talk about. People want to come, smart, educated, skilled folks. They literally can't, right? They, they apply for a visa and it's 10, 15, 20 year wait times.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  That is destroying our economy and it's holding us back. And I go to small businesses all the time. I visit, I do business visits almost every time I'm in Colorado. And I always ask them the same question. I say, what is your number one problem with your business? And across the board, they always say workforce. I can't find enough people to grow my business and to make more money and to expand. So why don't we have an actual discussion about how we normalize status for folks, how we fix our visa system, how we secure our border. And we do so in a humane way. That'll be good for our community and good for our families. But that requires the last piece, the last piece is that requires that we actually have a discussion about what is and isn't happening. Right. And all the focus and

• 23:47Speaker 01

  Aurora and these mass gang takeovers. Listen, I live in Aurora. It's my home. I spend time talking with local elected leaders, with the federal law enforcement, with the head of the FBI, with all the local police. I have a good sense for what's happening and what's not. And I can tell you that, you know, no transnational gangs are taking over Aurora. It's just not true, right? Now, are there issues that need to be addressed in this federal law enforcement, working with others to address it? Yes. And do I support that? Yes. But we need to have fact-based discussions.

• 24:15Fran Racioppi?

  When we look at our active duty military force, one of the things that's come into the immigration discussion is the deployment of active duty down to the border. The other piece from a special operations discussion that's happened is that the president has said, well, we can deploy special operations to fight narco-terrorism. If we turn, if we say the cartels are terrorist organizations, which they've done in the last couple of weeks, which isn't actually out of the ordinary. If we go back to the Columbia cartels, we deployed Delta Force down there. And, and I think Rangers.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  So much of what we talk about, Tom Clancy talked about decades.

• 24:51Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah, exactly. There's books, I mean, Killing Pablo was a real story. But what's your opinion on, on using the active duty component, whether it be special operations to go after the cartels or the deployment of the border to actually help fortify that?

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, this goes to my earlier point about needing to have a transparent debate and understanding that certain things are classified and you need to be kept, you know, secret for operational security reasons, but there's actually ways of us doing oversight and Congress being involved in that. And I sit on the Intelligence Committee and over 95% of what we do is in a SCIF. It's all classified. Right? So if what we want to do is use military for foreign, you know, counterterrorism, counter narco-trafficking operations, there is some precedent for that. But I want to see Congress involved. Congress needs to be involved constitutionally, legally, right? This is something that no president should do on their own, whether they're Republican or Democrat.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  The elected representatives that constitutionally have the role of deciding when to send our people proactively into conflict need to be engaged. And so far, we're not engaged. So that's fundamental to me. That's what needs to happen. And then we can have a discussion about. What's appropriate use of our military and what's tied to our national security and what's not? Because we also have to look at the broader picture, right? We simply cannot do everything everywhere. And I would like to, but we have finite resources. The world is a dangerous place and people are making decisions all the time about how to allocate our resources and our forces and our money, given what are the biggest conflicts and what are the biggest threats? So we need to have that conversation.

• 26:24Fran Racioppi?

  I got one more question for you, and this is gonna be hard because I know you got a lot of things to do. And it's not easy to lead in Colorado and lead in this country, but you are a Ranger, so you're gonna lead from the front. I want to ask you about, we talked a little bit about bipartisanship and we talked about teamwork. But I gotta ask you, you know, how do you do it? Because I think that's what the tangible discussion has to be. It's easy to say, oh, we're gonna get along, we're gonna get along. But I want to throw something out here that I think is really important about you. In President Trump's first term, you led the impeachment inquiry. However, fast forward to several months ago, when President Trump was almost assassinated, you were one of the first ones to raise your hand and say, I will lead this investigation.

• 27:07Fran Racioppi?

  And so here you have, you know, yourself, who on one end of the spectrum said, we gotta get rid of this guy. And on the other side said, hey, I gotta stand up for this situation here and we gotta figure out what happened. How do you build consensus? And how do you rally people to come to the table and have the discussions that you've gone back to? And this conversation brought up multiple times about sitting down and having a discussion. And I'll throw one more thing out to you and then I'll turn it over. But Patrick Murphy, former Congressman and Secretary of the Army, sat down with me a couple of years ago. And he has a great quote that I use all the time. He said that you can disagree, but you cannot be disagreeable. How do you do that?

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I mean, that is the ultimate challenge right now. And your examples are right. I mean, first of all, I have this knack for being pulled into these big assignments. Like, I'm just sitting around, minding my own business, having a coffee. And I get the call, I get the knock on the door and they're like, do you want to be like an impeachment manager? Or do you want to like help lead the, you know, the attempted assassination task? Force, you wanna, you know, whatever the case might be, you know, lead, lead the effort to do the, the investigation into Afghanistan. So, listen, I'm here to serve. I don't always know what that looks like. I will answer the call when it comes, if it's appropriate. I try to call balls and strikes, right? So I have, you know, a lot of issues with the policies of this

• 28:28Speaker 01

  administration. But if there are things that I can get behind, I'm not gonna just burn the entire house down. Because, again, this goes back to my earlier comment. If you take the all or nothing mentality, if that's what everybody does, then everybody gets nothing. And that's just not gonna work. Right? So, my simple approach is, is relationships. Right? If you literally just sit down and talk to somebody, grab a drink after work, grab a dinner with them, you know, take a Codel, you know, one of these congressional delegation trips overseas to visit our troops, jump out of a plane, right? Like, you actually get to know the person, and you get to know their family and their spouse, and what drives them. And you realize that, you know, listen, people are, the vast majority of people are not evil, they're not

• 29:12Speaker 01

  trying to destroy your way of life. They have deep seated differences in views. And that's not to say I'm not gonna fight ardently for my beliefs and my, to protect my constituents, because I will. That's not what I'm saying. Because I will fight if I need to. But I'm not gonna approach something in any conversation at the outset and say, you know, your motivations are bad, or you hate America. Because the second you do that, you're done. Right? The second you go to somebody and say, you're evil, or you're, you know, existential threat to me, or you hate America, or whatever the case might be, there's no place to go. Right? The conversation is essentially over. And I'm one of the most bipartisan members of Congress, you know, at one point I was ranked 11 out of 435, last Congress, and 75% of the bills that

• 29:55Speaker 01

  I introduce, I introduce with the Republican co-lead, because I mean it. And there are some very conservative folks co-sponsor and work with me on bills, because I know them and they trust me, and I, they know that I wouldn't ask them to do something that I wouldn't do myself, or if they came to me, that I also wouldn't do. Right? So, it's just as simple as that. It's relationships, and getting to know your neighbor and your friend.

• 30:17Fran Racioppi?

  When faced with a challenge, Green Berets adapt, overcome, and keep moving forward. Now's your chance to stand with them. Join the 1952 Society with a monthly gift of just $19.52 to provide critical medical devices for wounded, ill, and injured Green Berets. Your support fuels their recovery, helping them return to duty or continue serving their communities. A Green Beret's mission never stops. Neither should our support. Join the 1952 Society today and stand with those who stand for us.

• 30:48Fran Racioppi?

  In the Special Forces, we call it a warrior diplomat.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Hmm, yeah.

• 30:52Fran Racioppi?

  Which is awesome to cease from a Ranger.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, you know, we can cross our own lines in the service, so.

• 31:00Fran Racioppi?

  Sometimes you don't need to blow the door. You can just turn the handle and open it up and ask if anyone's inside.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Sometimes you can. It's, you know, we have, we have lessons to learn from each other, friend.

• 31:11Fran Racioppi?

  Well, I appreciate you taking the time to sit down with me. It's been an honor to plan this for a while and, you know, really kind of throw the difficult questions at you because Congress is there, as you've mentioned, to get things done. And I think that the job of a Congressman or in all levels, in both the House and the Senate, is to find a way to get the result because that's what matters. Results. The American people want results. How you get there?

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Well, they want it because they deserve it, right? That is our job, right? It's not just what they want, it's what they deserve and what we owe to them, right? And I always say that the problem of legislating and the challenge of it is the Goldilocks challenge, right? You need that porridge just right, not too hot, not too cold. And a lot of these issues are not easy issues. They have unintended consequences, so that's our job.

• 32:03Fran Racioppi?

  And I tell people all the time in leadership seminars that I give is, as a leader, it doesn't matter how you feel, as long as your team achieve the result that you want.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  That's right. My personal feelings are largely irrelevant here.

• 32:16Fran Racioppi?

  Absolutely. I appreciate all you're doing.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  All right, thanks, friend. Yeah, appreciate it. Thank you.

• 32:26Fran Racioppi?

  American Jedbergs went on to form the foundation of the United States Special Forces and the Special Activities Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. Thanks for listening to the Jedburgh Podcast, an official program of the Green Beret Foundation. I'm your creator and host, Fran Rychowi. Join us next week for a new episode on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Check us out on YouTube for full episodes, highlights, and other long and short form content. If you like what you heard, give us a like and leave a review. Follow the Jedburgh Podcast and the Green Beret Foundation on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, X or Threads. Send your comments and inquiries to [email protected]. As former members of Special Operations Forces, the Jedburgh Media Channel, and the Green Beret Foundation remain committed to supporting all generations of US Army Special Forces and their families.

• 33:10Fran Racioppi?

  Thanks for joining us on this episode. How you prepare today determines success tomorrow.