Pod Insights On Purpose with Jay Shetty Gauranga Das ON: How To Live A Peaceful, Purposeful & Prosperous Life Through Being Of Service About this episode For Jay Shetty, finding his mentor at the age of eighteen brought him to a monkhood journey that inspired him to change his life trajectory.
If you are searching for wisdom on how to navigate the choices you are facing in life, this episode will deliver. Shetty and his mentor Gauranga Das discuss how to elevate your consciousness to explore the urges you have. You don’t have to live like a monk to think like one. Freedom awaits you!
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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3:09 Speaker 01 For several years,
3:12 Speaker 01 meditation has really given me an entrance into this arena of a totally new paradigm of what love is, which scriptures describe as devotional service. Service without any selfish considerations.
3:40 Jay Shetty? I'm really excited about sharing this interview with all of you because I'm sitting with the one and only Gorangadas, who inspired my whole monk journey, the person who individually captivated me so early on in my life when I was 18 years old. And when I heard him speak and heard him speak many, many times and interact with different people, inviting me to spend some time in India and just inspired me on my house coach journey and literally changed the trajectory of my life. Just simply meeting him for a week in London completely changed what I wanted to do and became my role model and inspiration in life and still is. And I'm excited that you finally get to hear
4:23 Jay Shetty? from him and I get to ask him a few questions. So hopefully this is gonna be a bit of fun as well. He's hilarious. So if he doesn't let that out, then he's just being respectful. But I'm really honored and humbled to be sitting with you.
4:37 Speaker 01 Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Jay, for welcoming me and speaking those words.
4:42 Jay Shetty? I've been so grateful that I've had you in my life since I was eighteen years old in so many different ways. And I can honestly say that you have been there for me at every stage in my life. And I think that's a very special thing because I think so many of us today in the world are looking for mentors. And I'm so fortunate that I met one of my biggest mentors in life so early on. So I'd just like to honor you and share my gratitude and thank you. And thank you today for all of this help you've given us this week in allowing us to film the Eco Village. And I want, I want to start with talking to you about how, what people, I've mentioned about you before, when I've spoken about you, that people may not have as a perception of monks. I think people
5:25 Jay Shetty? often think of monks as either we know nothing about them, or we think maybe they're lazy and they don't want to do any work, or we think maybe they're uneducated and they didn't have another path. Or maybe we think they were very religious growing up. But when I met you, what I got fascinated by is that you didn't really fit into any of those categories. You were extremely educated. You are extremely educated. You come from a spiritual background, but it's not that you were, you were a normal person at college growing up. I just want to hear a bit about how you decided that this path was right for you. Because when I heard what you'd done, I was so impressed that someone of your caliber who had everything
6:09 Jay Shetty? that me and my friends were seeking, were able to give it up so easily for this life. So what brought you to this stage? Tell me about what you wanted to become growing up, and then why you became this.
6:22 Speaker 01 Well, thanks Jeff for asking that question. Yes, it's true that as I was in IIT, I did not have this idea of becoming a monk. But I came across a few incidents, and those were some of the turning points in my life.
6:42 Speaker 01 One of my friends, who was pretty well-to-do in terms of education and studies, he once attempted a suicide, and that really shook me up. And then for the first time I started understanding that life is much more than just achievements. But there is also a feeling of experience which each one of us is processing from within. So we are improving technology, we are improving systems, but what about the human experience which is happening behind those systems and behind those machines?
7:17 Speaker 01 On the other hand, I also found that in my class, there were some other students who had failed in quite a few subjects, but they were not at all affected and they were going around the campus as if nothing has happened. So I was pretty bewildered because I thought those were the ones who should be in anxiety. And when I asked them, they would respond by saying that "Our philosophy in life is simple. To enter the college is our job. To take us out of the college is college's job. So why should we be worried?" So I realized that beyond all the various externals, technologies, systems, that talk about GDP and everything,
7:59 Speaker 01 there is something which is not described in great detail in any of our textbooks. And that is the perceptions and the experiences which each one of us have as a soul. And that really made me to seek answers in books which are beyond the regular ones. And then I came across the Bhagavad Gita. And then I started getting answers to one of the most important principles in life.
8:34 Speaker 01 Circumstances are beyond our control. And we have limited control over our circumstances. But we have unlimited control over our consciousness. And therefore, I thought that was pretty deep. When an airplane flies, it takes off. And as soon as it takes off, you see the same buildings look pretty insignificant. So we may not have control over the size of the buildings, but we have control over how high we can go. And similarly, problems in life may not diminish, but our consciousness can rise much above those so-called problems, so that the entire perspective changes.
9:19 Speaker 01 So when I read the Gita, I realized that one of the core principles to remain enthusiastic, positive, full of enthusiasm and energy in your whole life is the flexibility and the agility with which you can choose different lenses at any particular given moment. Because sometimes, a lens can make an object look very tiny, and another lens can make the same object look very huge and appear to be extremely close to your eyes. And there are other lenses which do not magnify at all. So therefore, depending on the situation and circumstance,
10:02 Speaker 01 how can we choose those lenses is something which is described in great detail in the ancient Vedic wisdom. And I got drawn to that. I started reading it. And I didn't realize that my journey will take me one day to London, so that our paths cross.
10:21 Jay Shetty? Yeah, that's so beautifully explained. And thank you for sharing that, because I think so many people who will be listening and watching today, so many of them may have that experience at college too, that people are facing so much stress and anxiety. People are trying to become something that they don't want to be, but maybe their parents want them to be it, or maybe their friends or their peers think that that is what success is in society. How did you, when you decided to become a monk, I'm guessing that not everyone around you was celebrating.
10:53 Jay Shetty? Like it may have been a tough choice or a tough decision. How were you able to make this tough step? Because even if people are not becoming monks, everyone sometimes has to make choices in life. Where people around you may not agree. And how were you able to do that? And I know you do that now as well in your work. So many times you're having to make tough decisions where everyone may not agree with you. How did you do that in the first instance of becoming a monk?
11:19 Speaker 01 Well, to be honest, I was also not very sure whether, you know, I would be able to sustain this path. Because practically, nobody in my family has ever done it before. And I was thinking, how will society respond to this? And whether I'm making the right decision? And I was thinking, how should I process this moving forward? But then an incident happened, which completely changed my perspective. I was on the road, traveling with one other senior monk. He was driving me. And we were on the highway. And this was November of nineteen ninety-three.
12:03 Speaker 01 And then as we were moving on the highway, our vehicle hit against another truck. And there was an accident on the highway. And our car got badly smashed. Luckily, in spite of being injured quite heavily, I survived. It was a very transformative moment for me. Because I saw my whole body filled with blood. And the doctor spent practically five to six hours in the operation theater, taking out the glass pieces which had entered into my body. And then as I was recovering, I started contemplating.
12:46 Speaker 01 That, well, as far as my life is concerned, even an inch here or there would have been the end of my life. And I'm only 22. And I could as well be dead by now. But it looks like I've been given another chance. So whether someone in society or anyone else connected, whatever may be their feelings or background, whatever their responses may be. Today, I am alive and I've been given a second chance. Let me use this second chance to do something great to serve others.
13:29 Speaker 01 And therefore, I decided that I will use this opportunity, every breath which has been given to me back as a second chance, as an opportunity, to share and spread this message which has benefited me so much. So there are moments like this where you are practically hopeless and then a small window of hope opens up and then you see everything from a different perspective. So for me, it was that moment which gave me that conviction to sustain this determination for a lifetime.
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16:20 Jay Shetty? I love that. I think we all have such similar moments in our life, whether they're near-death experiences like yours, maybe not as extreme, but I think everyone who's listening and watching right now can relate to the fact that we all get these choices in life. Sometimes it's a second chance, sometimes it's an opening or an opportunity, and we, at that point, have a choice to make, whether we want to carry on living unconsciously and without thought or without purpose, or whether we want to live with deeper meaning and purpose like you chose. And I mean, you've really lived up to that because I remember when I met you and even now, like today, we're sitting in an eco-village that, of course, there's been a community behind it, but you've led the development of.
17:05 Jay Shetty? There's the incredible food distribution work that you've definitely been involved in spearheading, the incredible work that's happening with the community in Mumbai. You know, you've been a part of affecting thousands and thousands and millions of lives, and I think you've definitely lived up to that incredible commitment that you took on.
17:24 Speaker 01 Thank you, thank you so much.
17:25 Jay Shetty? It's really special, actually, because I think that it's one thing to say those things, but to actually authentically live up to it, and I can see you're always challenging yourself to the next level. And I guess that's what I love about our path of being a monk is that... And I was speaking about this with Radha Manaswamy too, that we have self and service. So you have your own personal meditation, you have your own personal prayer and your sadhana and your practices. And then you're going and extending yourself for the world.
17:59 Speaker 01 Right.
18:00 Jay Shetty? And I feel like you've found a way of using all your talents in service of humanity. So it's not that you became a monk and thought, okay, now I need to let go of this. You've actually believed that the gifts that you've been given or the talents you've been given can actually be used to help serve the world, which I think is a really important thing. Could you share a bit on that perspective?
18:23 Speaker 01 Sure.
18:23 Jay Shetty? And why that's important?
18:24 Speaker 01 That's a beautiful question. The word monk in the Christian tradition, it comes from the root word in Latin, monchoz, which basically means solitude.
18:43 Speaker 01 And typically monks would contemplate in solitude. But there are several monks who would also engage in community work.
18:54 Speaker 01 In the Buddhist tradition, the monks are known as bhikkhu or bhikshu. It has two meanings. One is beggar. Second is bhayam ikkhati iti bhikkhu, which means one who's able to see and perceive danger. And that's a very interesting definition because monks were those who would lead their life, understanding the knowledge and protect themselves and people from the danger of ignorance.
19:33 Speaker 01 In the Hindu tradition, monks are known as sannyasis.
19:40 Speaker 01 Sanyasi word consists of three parts: Sam plus Ni plus Asa. So Sam means totally. Ni means to go down and Asa means to uproot. So sanyasi basically means one who is dedicating himself to completely uproot, go down and uproot all the negativities and negative desires from within. He does that for himself and he helps others also in their journey. Another word in Sanskrit for monk is Vairaghi.
20:23 Speaker 01 And that also comes from a very beautiful tapestry of syllables. Vi and raga. So vi means without and raga means attachment, without attachment. And another meaning is vi plus ranj plus bhun which means without color. So that is a very interesting definition which very much correlates to the question you are asking. Which means that a sanyasi or a vairaghi or a renunciant or a monk is one
21:03 Speaker 01 who can be fully engaged in productive activities which is of benefit to society but remains uncolored by any of that. He remains unaffected. So that is one of the interesting perspectives of vairagya or renunciation. Therefore, one of the core principles in the renounced order is absorption. Absorption I would divide in two important elements. One is the intention and second is the action. Intention towards selfless service.
21:48 Speaker 01 Intention towards...
21:51 Speaker 01 Tireless service and intention towards pleasing selflessly. So the two elements are intention and action.
22:02 Speaker 01 Monkhood is all about how we can selflessly please others
22:11 Speaker 01 and how we can tirelessly serve others. So the combination of this intention of selfless pleasing and tireless serving,
22:24 Speaker 01 it combines into giving an experience of total absorption. And that absorption is something which then expands in the form of compassion and we include everyone else within that expanding circle of compassion and drown the whole world in peace and harmony.
22:46 Jay Shetty? Now you can see why I think it's amazing. That was brilliant. I've never heard that before. I've never heard the breakdown of the the words of the definition of monk in different traditions. I think that's incredible to hear that. And I think that's what I find so special about this path is that it allows the ability to serve as well, not just to live in solitude. And that's why my next question is, I've written my book called Think Like A Monk. And the reason why I called it that is because I believe that you don't have to necessarily live like a monk to think like one. That it is a beautiful opportunity if you can. But we all, we both know that for 99.9% of the world, it's not going to be something that people are going to do.
23:31 Jay Shetty? But I really believe that the mindset that a monk is encouraged to cultivate of service, of self-growth, of removing unwanted negative tendencies and implications, these are things that anyone can do. And in one sense, we all must do to live a peaceful and purposeful life. So I'd love to hear from you, what you think thinking like a monk in your opinion is relevant for the modern people and modern world and for people like me now who also live in the city, have normal jobs, are married. How does thinking like a monk actually help that person?
24:06 Speaker 01 Bhagavad Gita describes
24:11 Speaker 01 Four principles which are extremely important for us to follow.
24:18 Speaker 01 One of the greatest challenges in remaining grounded in life is our inability to tolerate provoking situations.
24:29 Speaker 01 Whether one is a monk, or one is in household life, or in a corporate life, any kind of a relationship or doing any kind of activity or occupation, we are constantly being provoked. And therefore, Gita first talks about what is known as "vega sahishnuta", which means we have to tolerate our urges. So I would say tolerating our urge to consume. The second principle is "dhandva sahishnuta", dhandva refers to duality.
25:10 Speaker 01 We have to tolerate various dualities which come in our life and remain humble and aware of the fact that we cannot control our situations. So therefore, we have to tolerate the urge to control.
25:31 Speaker 01 Third is "paramata sahishnuta",
25:35 Speaker 01 we are so convinced about our opinions and our standpoint and our viewpoint that we want others also to buy into that. So many arguments, differences of opinion happen, relationships break down because we have a strong urge to convince others. So we have to tolerate that urge to convince others in certain situations.
26:05 Speaker 01 And the fourth is the urge to compete. And that is known as "parotkarsha sahishnuta", certain people will do much better than us in so many different ways.
26:21 Speaker 01 We should feel happy when we see that and remember that we have a role to play and we should resist the temptation and the urge to compete.
26:34 Speaker 01 So, Gita focuses on how to elevate one's consciousness
26:41 Speaker 01 above these urges
26:45 Speaker 01 to control, to convince, to compete. And then, we are actually able to rise above all of these and realize that, yes, I have a role to play to serve each and everyone in society to the best of my ability. And therefore, people who are engaged in society are in anxiety because many times they are trying to compare with others. And this comparison is a huge cancer of the mind. Today, every single day in India, 371 people commit suicide.
27:28 Jay Shetty? Every?
27:29 Speaker 01 Every day.
27:30 Jay Shetty? Every day.
27:31 Speaker 01 Every single day.
27:34 Speaker 01 300 million people across the world are experiencing mental health disorders.
27:40 Speaker 01 Every single day, 18 billion cigarettes are being smoked. 6.75 trillion cigarettes smoked every year. 1 billion people across the world experiencing addiction to cigarette smoking and unable to give up.
27:58 Speaker 01 So practically, each one of us have our internal challenges. And therefore, Gita focuses on first managing oneself and then based on how we manage ourselves, we can manage others. And in my own experience, I have found that when people, irrespective of whatever occupation and profession they may be, when they cannot control these urges.
28:28 Speaker 01 To consume, to control, to convince, to compete. Then invariably they land up in so many difficulties, so many challenges. Social issues may not be described. Emotional issues may not be described. Personal issues may not be described in books of technology and management. But all of those issues have a major role to play in our overall experience as individuals and in our contribution to society. For example, the word "family" may not pop up anywhere in your management books or in your technology books. But today,
29:14 Speaker 01 because of a lack of emphasis on family values and because of inability for people to control their urges, so many differences of opinion are cropping up. A country like Luxembourg has a divorce rate of eighty-seven percent. Spain has a divorce rate of sixty-five percent.
29:37 Speaker 01 France has a divorce rate of fifty-five percent, Russia fifty-one percent. America has divorce rate of forty-six percent, the global divorce rate is forty-four percent. And therefore, it's very important for us to realize
29:52 Speaker 01 that there may not be much focus on instilling values in individuals and institutions as families. But if you do not focus and emphasize and invest in something, in due course of time, you'll lose it.
30:10 Speaker 01 And therefore, it was not empty rhetoric when people would say, "A family which prays together stays together." And therefore, it's very important for us to introspect which way we are going as a society. How much are all these values crucial and critical for self-conservation and conserving relationships in society? Conserving mental health and sanity in society? Because sometimes we may just think that these are not irrelevant because you cannot connect a dollar value to these values.
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32:22 Jay Shetty? Absolutely, yeah, that's a fantastic answer because I think that's the key thing that's missing, that we live in a world that believes if you actually chase the satisfaction of your urges, then that is freedom. That real success is actually following your urges. Whatever urge you have, if you want to compete with someone, compete. If you want to compare with someone, compare. If you want to say anything about someone, you can say it. And we see that as freedom, but actually, what you're suggesting and what the text is suggesting is that we actually gain real freedom when we don't need to do those things and we don't feel the need to do those things.
33:04 Jay Shetty? So on that point, let's extrapolate that because I think that's a really powerful point. What is the beginning of the step-by-step process of starting to create self-control? Because I think we see self-control as such a negative thing because it's seen as restrictive or it's seen as like almost being imprisoned, but actually we're imprisoned by our desires. But that's still a, it's like a massive paradigm shift for a lot of individuals today and even for myself when I first met you and I first came to this. So explain why actually freedom comes from controlling your urges.
33:43 Speaker 01 The Gita says, "Ragadhveshavimuktaishru vishyayan indriyeshcharan, atmavashair vidayatma prasadham adigachchuti." This is a beautiful verse where Krishna says that freedom from all of our base desires comes when we are able to control our mind and follow a strict discipline of applying ourselves to follow a certain regimen.
34:16 Speaker 01 The word used is "regulative principles of freedom."
34:21 Speaker 01 It may sound contradictory because self-control or discipline seems to have a connotation of being bound as a prisoner. But I'll give two examples. One, if someone is flying a kite, the question is, is the rope binding the movement of the kite? Or the rope becomes an instrument for helping the kite fly higher? So if someone says, "Why is the kite bound? Let us cut the rope." So the kite may fly for some time, but then again it will crash. So the rope is binding the kite,
35:05 Speaker 01 but the rope should not be seen as limiting the movement of the kite, but facilitating the upliftment of the kite. Similarly, if you're caught in a traffic jam, you cannot move. And sometimes when the signals don't work, or if the policeman is not there in sight, then there may be a huge traffic jam. But actually, the traffic laws and the signals facilitate proper movement of the vehicles. So it is not to be seen as limiting, but facilitating. Therefore, when we look at discipline,
35:49 Speaker 01 discipline is something which enables us to experience greater freedom. And that's what the Bhagavad Gita is talking about, the art of self-control, the art of mind-control. And by practicing this, each one of us will actually experience an enhancement of our consciousness.
36:15 Jay Shetty? And I think we've all experienced that. I think everyone knows that when you you feel like you're letting loose in the beginning, it feels good in the beginning, but then after a bit of time, it starts to feel really painful.
36:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, like for example, when the British were in India, they saw that at one point of time, maybe a century ago, the Cobra population in Delhi was increasing.
36:43 Speaker 01 So they made a ruling. In order to control the cobra population, if anyone gets a dead cobra and submits to the government office, they'll get a financial reward. And they thought by announcing this, people would go out, get inspired to kill cobras, and the cobra population would be controlled. But then, quite a few people got inspired to rear cobra farms.
37:11 Speaker 01 And they started rearing cobra snakes in farms around Delhi. The cobra population started increasing. When the government realized that, they scrapped the scheme. The guys who were rearing the cobras became angry, released the cobras in the city.
37:24 Jay Shetty? No way.
37:25 Speaker 01 And therefore, this is known as the Cobra Effect.
37:28 Jay Shetty? Oh wow, I've never heard of that.
37:29 Speaker 01 Where the proposed solution of a problem is worse than the original problem.
37:37 Speaker 01 And therefore, people are in distress. They are depressed.
37:43 Speaker 01 They are unhappy. And they decide, "Let me consume alcohol. Let me take drugs. Let me do this, let me do that." So various momentary titillations, which they provide to their mind and their senses, may sometimes increase and enhance the problem, then solve it.
38:06 Speaker 01 Therefore, the submission is, "Try to understand how the system is designed. Understand how these issues can be resolved in the best possible way within the design." And if there is a computer, it has a hard disk. If the hard disk gets a virus, then the computer just crashes.
38:31 Speaker 01 However beautiful the screen may look, but the hard disk is corrupted. Similarly, people invest a lot of time and energy building their body, building their physique, keeping themselves physically fit. But they fail to realize that a very important component of our system is the mind. And mind is like the hard disk for this computer-like body. And if sufficient investment is not made to keep the mind fit, then in due course of time, one will be overwhelmed with negativities. And therefore...
39:12 Speaker 01 This kind of mental fitness is what is known as meditation. So meditation is the gym where you actually perform various kinds of exercises to keep the mind fit.
39:31 Jay Shetty? Well, after all these years of meditating for so many hours per day and leading so many other meditation workshops yourself, what would you say for you as been the greatest gift that meditation has given you personally?
39:44 Speaker 01 Everybody is looking for love.
39:48 Speaker 01 Many people think love is all about pleasure. But in response to your question on meditation, the greatest gift which meditation has bestowed upon me is a proper understanding of what is love.
40:07 Speaker 01 And I realized that love is about pain and not pleasure.
40:17 Speaker 01 In the Chaitanya Charitamra, there is a beautiful description which defines love.
40:23 Speaker 01 “Pragadha premera ey sohava achar, nijadukka vighnadiere nokori vichar.”
40:31 Speaker 01 In this, it is described that in every relationship, there could be various problems:
40:43 Speaker 01 scarcity, impediment, discomfort, unhappiness, change, uncertainty, lack of reciprocation and separation.
41:00 Speaker 01 All of these may happen in a relationship, but if the relationship continues, then that is defined as love. And as I described before, how to please selflessly the object of your love and how to serve tirelessly.
41:22 Speaker 01 And so, in my experience, love is something which is extremely rare, extremely valuable, and extremely difficult to process unless we are willing to put ourselves through a system of purification.
41:48 Speaker 01 And then when we purify ourselves, then lust, which is like iron, transforms into love, which is like gold.
41:59 Speaker 01 So in my experience for several years,
42:03 Speaker 01 meditation has really given me an entrance into this arena of a totally new paradigm of what love is, which scriptures describe as devotional service, service without any selfish considerations.
42:27 Speaker 01 I share this example
42:31 Speaker 01 that when we began our Govinda's restaurant in our Chopati temple many years ago,
42:40 Speaker 01 we decided that we will have pizza. And it was Radhanas Swami's idea to have pizza. This was 2004. And we were not really experienced in making pizzas. And, you know, some of us used to make our own version of pizza, which was, you know, take a couple of loaves of bread and put some tomato ketchup and have some fried vegetables. And it was what we would call as pizza. And we thought, that is it. So when Maharaj said we should have pizza, I said, I mentioned to him. I don't think this is an item which we can sell in a restaurant. And he looked at me and said, "Which pizza are you referring to? The one which you guys feed me?"
43:26 Speaker 01 I said, "That's what pizza we know." And he looked at me and said, "That which you feed me is not pizza. It's a perverted reflection of pizza." And then we had someone coming from New York and he gave us the entire recipe of an authentic Italian New York pizza, thin crust. And for the first time in life, I saw artichoke hearts. And I didn't know any of this and I was initiated into appreciating what a pizza is. So the word pizza was being used by us, but the experience was something else.
44:07 Speaker 01 The word pizza remained the same, but we were ascribing or superimposing the word pizza on some other product which was giving a different experience.
44:19 Speaker 01 The whole world is speaking about love. Songs are being sung by movie actors and actresses and singers and rock stars about love.
44:33 Speaker 01 Novels are being sold in the millions, which are centered around the theme of love.
44:40 Speaker 01 But all of these descriptions are referring to an experience of selfish, personal pleasure. Whereas the description as given in the Vedic scriptures is love means service without selfish consideration. So this has been the greatest revelation as far as meditation is concerned for me in my own life and my journey with Radhanath Swami and my other monks.
45:14 Jay Shetty? Amazing. People often question, "How can anything be truly selfless if you know that it's good for you?" And I want to hear your perspective on that because I'm sure people have said to you that, "How can anything be selfless? Because if I know that it's good for me to do service and I'm serving, then it's not selfless." So how do you respond to that?
45:36 Speaker 01 The soul by nature
45:39 Speaker 01 is designed to serve.
45:43 Speaker 01 So, sugar by nature is sweet. And water by nature is liquid.
45:49 Speaker 01 So, when we perform an activity and function which is as per nature and as how it has been designed, one experiences harmony. And that harmony produces the greatest efficiency. And so, the soul by nature is designed to serve. When we engage in serving and pleasing, that effect of serving and pleasing, it actually produces the greatest joy from within. And therefore, there are four levels of motivation.
46:27 Speaker 01 And that's what has kept me going in my thirty years as a monk.
46:34 Speaker 01 The lowest level is motivation by desire. The lowest level is motivation by fear.
46:43 Speaker 01 The next is motivation by desire.
46:48 Speaker 01 Above that is motivation by the sense of duty.
46:52 Speaker 01 And the highest is to be motivated by the sense of love.
46:59 Speaker 01 So, if you analyze all these four levels, you will see, actions motivated by fear and desire is simply a transaction.
47:12 Speaker 01 Actions motivated by duty may result in transparency. But it is only actions inspired by love
47:24 Speaker 01 which takes us to trance.
47:28 Speaker 01 And therefore, we have to decide, do we want to lead a life based on transaction? Or we want to lead a life based on trance? And so, again, referring to the Chaitanya Chirtamruth, I quote: "Bahu parishrama chandana remuna anila, anand badiila mane dukkha na ganiila."
47:53 Speaker 01 Madhavendrapuri, a great saint. He indulged in very hard work to get...
48:05 Speaker 01 Madhavendrapuri, a great saint. He actually got a whole load of sandalwood to please his worshipable Lord Gopal. And in that process, he experienced so many impediments and difficulties. But this words reveals that आनंद बढ़िलामणे दुखना गणिला. His bliss increased. And he did not consider that in any way, shape or form to be creating any distress for him.
48:39 Speaker 01 And a very important word is used, दुखना गणिला. गणिला basically means "count", to keep an account.
48:50 Speaker 01 When we keep an account, it is a business transaction.
48:55 Speaker 01 When we are serious about something, when we mean business, we keep account. If I lend money to someone and if I am running a business, so I keep account of how much I have earned, how much I have spent. If someone is intent upon losing weight, they count their calories. So whenever there is seriousness and businesslike dealing,
49:22 Speaker 01 the principle of keeping account comes.
49:26 Speaker 01 दुखना गणिला means
49:30 Speaker 01 is our relationship a businesslike transaction? Where I keep account of how much I have done for you and how much distress I have gone through and how many difficulties I have gone through in this relationship. If I keep account of that, then it is a businesslike relationship.
49:52 Speaker 01 When a child is screaming in the middle of the night, the mother spontaneously gets up to pacify the child. The mother never tells other people in the family, "I am not on night shift," or "I don't have overtime." "How much will you pay?" No, because she is just concerned out of a principle of selfless service to the child. And therefore, in a relationship inspired by love,
50:25 Speaker 01 one is entranced because we do not keep count of what difficulties we have to go through in that relationship, because we are simply concerned with pleasing the other person. And I believe that when I have led my life in this particular capacity as a monk,
50:53 Speaker 01 it has been keeping in mind a higher principle.
50:58 Speaker 01 A soldier
51:00 Speaker 01 fights
51:02 Speaker 01 to protect others' home and earth.
51:06 Speaker 01 A monk fights to protect others' hopes. And therefore, when people go to a pharmacy shop, they know they'll get medicine. When they go to a bookstore, they know they'll get a book. When they come to a spiritual place where such spiritual discussions are going on, why are they coming? Why are they listening to you? Why are they connecting with anything from any of our traditions? Because they are coming to receive hope. And therefore, people may think, "Wealth is my greatest asset." "Position is my greatest asset." "Good looks are my greatest asset."
51:51 Speaker 01 "Political influence is my greatest asset." "Social acceptance is my greatest asset." But all of these are assets which can be finished and destroyed at any moment.
52:05 Speaker 01 As per Bhagavad Gita, the greatest asset is our hope. If someone has hope, even if he loses all the other things, he can still, in due course of time, do his best.
52:22 Speaker 01 And therefore, these kind of discussions evoke growth of the most important asset which each one of us have, the power and the ability to hope.
52:37 Jay Shetty? Absolutely. That's, yeah, that's an amazing perspective in looking in that way. I'm gonna shift the conversation slightly, so hopefully this will be fun for all of you. I wanted to ask Gaurav with us some questions about our relationship because he's known me since I was 18 years old. I'm 32 now, so it's been a fair amount of time. And we've spent a lot of quality time together in that time, so I wanted to ask him a few questions. And my first question was, and I want you to be honest, you have to be honest, no, you don't have to sugarcoat. What was the first thing you thought of me when we first met?
53:13 Jay Shetty? Around that time?
53:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, I was in London and Jay walks in with one more friend. And then I look at him and I think, oh, this guy looks like Tom Cruise.
53:26 Speaker 01 And then, you know, he starts asking, you know, all kinds of questions. And I think, maybe he's in distress because his girlfriend has ditched him.
53:38 Speaker 01 So honestly, you know, I didn't think that you were so serious about wisdom and wanting to know more. At least it didn't appear at that time. So those were my first impressions. I hope I'm not being offensive.
53:53 Jay Shetty? No, it's true, it's true. I was never, I wasn't spiritually inclined as a young kid. And even in my teens, I was not so spiritually inclined. I think that's why I met at the beginning, that meeting you was a real turning point for me because even though I had some friends that went to spirituality, my family, of course, my father and everything, I didn't really, I didn't really see my place. I couldn't really understand how someone like me could be spiritual. And I think that's why I'm so proactive in wanting to share it with people in the way I do. Is because I want to share wisdom in a way that people like me, who didn't really think they were spiritual or could access it,
54:35 Jay Shetty? can actually find their path. So I think you're right. I would agree with that. Uh, okay, good. And then, and then, did you ever think that I would become a monk? Because I used to tell you, probably every time we met, between eighteen to twenty-two, that I wanted to be one.
54:52 Speaker 01 Whenever I would hear that, I would think this guy has gone nuts. And I was worried because, you know, definitely you were so sincere and your, uh, your, your intention to become a monk was coming from somewhere really deep. But because I had spent already so many years by that time as a monk, I knew that life was pretty rough in terms of, you know, a relentless need for being disciplined and, you know, it's going to be extremely difficult and tough. And you came across to me as someone so fragile and someone who's like a mama's boy.
55:35 Speaker 01 That I would always think that, oh man, how will this guy tolerate all the hardships as a monk? And I was trying to discourage you for sure for all those years. So, but, you know, what happened later was of course, your call.
55:50 Jay Shetty? See, this is good. I want you all to listen to this because I want you to realize how much growth someone has to make. I think sometimes when I'm, when I'm speaking now or you hear me, a lot of the time people feel that, oh, you've always been this way or you've always had it figured out. And, and the answer is we don't. No one has it figured out. And we're all figuring out all the time and emotionally we change as well. I was definitely, I think when I first met you, I don't think I was thick-skinned. I don't think that I was resilient. I don't think that I was, I think I was fragile emotionally. I think I was very sensitive, like, all of these things were, and I was eighteen years old, so, should I really put myself under pressure to be more? Maybe not, because you're only eighteen years old.
56:35 Jay Shetty? But now when I look back and I think about how I've been able to grow and change. It's fun to see it from that perspective. It's fun to look in the mirror with someone that has known you for a while and realize how far you've come. And for you to see how far anyone can come as well, including yourself. So, okay, that's good. And then when I became a monk, then we traveled together as well. What did you think during that time? What was your thoughts? Were they changing? Did I impress you? Did I prove you wrong? Or where did it go from there?
57:10 Speaker 01 No, I must be very honest that, you know, I never imagined that, you know, you'll come to where you are today. Because at that point of time, I remember so many times you would break down and cry. And I was wondering that how will this guy survive his years as a monk?
57:34 Jay Shetty? I still cry.
57:36 Speaker 01 If someone had told me that one day, this boy is going to become a social media celebrity, I would have said, "Good luck." But I definitely was impressed, number one, with your sincerity in wanting to know and learn. So I think that was a very, very important value system, an attitude which you had even then, an eagerness to know and learn, which was so sincere that I remember that in all our travels,
58:16 Speaker 01 one thing which struck me was how precisely you would keep notes. I don't know if you still have those notes.
58:23 Jay Shetty? Only when you were class. I still have them from then.
58:27 Speaker 01 But what struck me more was you have one of the neatest and the most beautiful handwritings. And I don't know whether, you know, those who are following you really have seen your handwriting, but it's mind-boggling. And I still remember that, although I have not seen it for a long time. But the way you would capture the notes was very inspiring because it was very clear that you were wanting to understand very systematically all of that wisdom.
59:01 Speaker 01 And it has been an amazing experience to see how all of that unfolded in due course of time. Another thing I would like to share is that in our travels,
59:15 Speaker 01 I could also see a very deep urge within you to share this wisdom. And that was pretty obvious because, you know, I was a speaker and so many people would come around and I would not have time to speak to all of them. But you would immediately start sharing wisdom with others just after the event. And that irresistible desire to share the knowledge and wisdom and help others was something which I observed even then. And also, that desire was so strong that you would see best practices happening in different parts of the world and especially at Iskhancho Party. And you immediately would try to do something in London.
1:00:01 Speaker 01 And one example of that was how you really tried to help the youth in London by creating a beautiful house for the youth to stay, right around the college campus, where they could experience a proper ecosystem for spiritual advancement. And I think it was totally your initiative, which was born of your experience of seeing something like that in India. And I was pretty impressed. But in spite of, you know, your emotional side, I could always also see very strong resilience and the ability to withstand opposition, challenges, difficulties,
1:00:43 Speaker 01 and unwillingness to take “no” for an answer. And, you know, some examples of that was like some of the initiatives which you took at that particular point of time with respect to how to connect with the youth. And there were a lot of people who had other ideas, but you were convinced of certain ideas and you really felt it was the best thing to do. And you were willing to put your weight behind that. And that really impressed me because I thought, “Oh, here is someone who comes across as very emotional and fragile, but he still has the guts to lead with a certain kind of determination which does not come across immediately.” So, you know, I did notice that.
1:01:26 Speaker 01 And I remember when we were in Florida and we were about to catch a flight. And, you know, two airlines attendant girls came up and they looked at you and said, "Hey, you look so happy and cute." And I remember that. And, you know, I looked at you and I looked at them and I was thinking, "Why is this guy a monk? Maybe he'll be more effective if he's out there amongst the people and as part of society." And at that point of time, there was practically no clue in what your future is going to be. But I could see that you had a tremendous ability to connect with people and reach out to people in ways which were pretty deep
1:02:10 Speaker 01 and something which not everybody could do. So these are some of my memories of those times, seeing, you know, the soft side of your personality, but at the same time, your steel-like determination, which seemed to be couched under that external cover of emotional softness. But I do believe that without having that kind of dedication and determination, you could not have spent, you know, those three years as a monk with many of us. And I remember, you know, putting you through the grind in the kitchen, you know, in front of a blazing fire.
1:02:54 Speaker 01 We would be cooking and you would be assisting. And even while the construction of this eco-village was happening, you were out there in the sun, helping with bringing various materials and assisting. But all through all of these, the common thread which I saw was you had an enthusiasm and a zeal to serve. And that, I feel, is a very, very important character element, which has really brought you to where you are. And I'm so glad that, you know, millions of people who are connecting to you are extremely fortunate to have a guide who is connected with the authentic wisdom.
1:03:41 Jay Shetty? Thank you.
1:03:43 Jay Shetty? Very kind and all I can say honestly is that all the inspiration of anything I've ever done is through what I've learned from you and seen you do for so many years. I remember coming with you to university events every single night in India. So every single night, Pranagadas would go out to speak to different students about this wisdom and I would follow him and go every single night with him. And I used to see this incredible enthusiasm from him to want to just share this wisdom with everyone. When I saw that, I wanted to replicate the same thing. So every time I saw him do something, and then I realized that wasn't him and I couldn't be him, which was a good self-awareness
1:04:23 Jay Shetty? point for me. You can't become your mentors, you can't become your role models, you can't become your idols and you don't have to, quite frankly. And I think that's one of the biggest mistakes we make when we're young and immature, but then you grow to respect them more because of what they can do and achieve. And then you learn to find your own place. And I think that's what you always allowed me to do. You gave me the space. You never judged me for any of my mistakes or flaws and you never expected me to be at your level or anyone's level. You gave me space and freedom to find myself. And so every time I would find a different part of myself, I never felt judged by you to express that and to share that with you. And yeah, anything that I've ever tried is
1:05:08 Jay Shetty? what I've seen you do here in India and what I've seen you do here with the monks here and spending time here was some of my best memories of living as a monk. And I think anything that I ended up doing in London was completely inspired by your work. And yeah, anything that I've done that's good is thanks to you. And all the work that I'm doing now is just inspiration from everything you've given me. So, thank you so much.
1:05:34 Speaker 01 Well, we are very honored to, you know, be a part of your journey and very happy to see your expression of humility and gratitude, because that's one of the very core elements of our spiritual journey.
1:05:53 Jay Shetty? And don't worry, no one has to go and become a monk now, but we do recommend that you come and visit the Eco Village, where we are right now. I'd love for many of you to visit over the years when I start leading retreats, and that's a big part of what I'd like to do over the next 10, 20 years and beyond. And so this is just the beginning, as I always say. And we're very grateful that Grandadas is providing such a universal home for so many people to find their own spiritual path. So, thank you so much to you.
1:06:21 Speaker 01 Thank you.
1:06:21 Jay Shetty? Thank you to the Eco Village. And yeah, thank you all for watching and listening.
1:06:25 Speaker 01 Thank you.
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Previous 4 Practical Ways To Think Like A Monk & How This Powerful Mindset Will Reset A Difficult Year For You Next #1 Way To Attract Calm, Stillness and Peace In Life & 3 Ways To Keep It Page updated September 29, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
