Aly Raisman: Thirty, Single & Thriving (FBF)

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Aly Raisman. Aly opens up about growing up feeling insecure, hiding her muscles in high school, and why she believes women are often pressured to downplay their success to fit in. She reflects on the challenges of elite gymnastics, including struggles with body image, anxiety, people-pleasing, and the lasting impact of intense training. Aly also gets candid about dating in her 30s, the pressure women face to be in relationships, and what she’s learned about finding the right partner. Enjoy! This episode includes discussions of abuse and disordered eating. Please keep this in mind when deciding if, how and when you’ll listen. Read Aly's article: https://www.popsugar.com/love/aly-raisman-single-30-radical-honesty-49365631

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:45Alex Cooper?

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• 1:28Alex Cooper?

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• 2:10Alex Cooper?

  What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:19Alex Cooper?

  Ally Raisman, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 2:23Alex Cooper?

  I am so happy that we're doing this. I'm such a huge fan. I've been a huge fan for a while. To be able to like, sit here in person with you, it's an honor. So, thank you for being here.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  I am such a big fan of you too. And I think we have the same name. Is your legal name Alexandra?

• 2:37Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Me too. Should we call each other Alexandra?

• 2:40Alex Cooper?

  Should we go by Alexandra today?

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, nobody calls me Alexandra in interviews.

• 2:43Alex Cooper?

  Oh my God, I wonder like, how did you get Ally and how did I get Alex? Like who, where did you, oh?

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Okay, so first of all, I'm a very big fan of you too. Congratulations on everything. It's amazing. Love listening to your podcasts. I, so my legal name is Alexandra. And really, no one calls me that. When I was little, I used to actually be called Sexy Lexi, which is probably weird, but when I was like, five years old, everyone called me Sexy Lexi. I don't know why.

• 3:10Alex Cooper?

  Okay, Ally.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  I didn't know what sexy meant, but everyone called me Sexy Lexi in kindergarten. Like even like, some of the moms around me too. They still call me that to this day. And then when I was, like a couple of years later, I, I thought my real name was Alexandra. And I, I asked my mom one day and she said it was Alexandra. And I felt like I had been lied to my whole life because I was a very dramatic kid. So then I went by Alexandra for a little bit. And then I actually don't remember where Ally came from. But I love when my childhood friends call me Lexi because it's just like, they knew me before everything.

• 3:42Alex Cooper?

  I was about to say, I, I thought you were gonna say, I love when my childhood friends call me Sexy Lexi. I'm like, yeah, I wish my childhood friends would call me Sexy Lexi. They call me Big Al. Like, you got Sexy Lexi and I got Big Al from Alexandra. Like, make it make sense. I love that for you.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  I don't know where it came from, but I was five years old. And it's funny because some of my guy friends that are married now, I'm like, I don't think they call me Sexy Lexi anymore. But they're, I don't think they do.

• 4:06Alex Cooper?

  Their wife is like, what the fuck?

• 4:09Speaker 01

  But my girlfriends do from childhood. It's, it's funny. But now that I look back, I'm like, imagine hearing someone call a five-year-old Sexy Lexi. It's so weird.

• 4:19Alex Cooper?

  You were exuding just like confidence.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  I had no idea what it was.

• 4:23Alex Cooper?

  Okay, well, today we're both Alexandra.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:26Alex Cooper?

  So I read your article and to anyone that didn't read it, you're gonna read it because you're gonna fall in love and we're gonna talk about it today. But you basically wrote an article about being single at 30 and you talk about how it's really not where you thought you were going to be in your life at that point. So there is a lot to discuss today about timelines, comparison, just how hard it is to date in general. But before we get into that, because the daddy gang is going to freak out over that conversation, that's literally all we talk about over here, okay? Um, we need to talk about the Olympics. You are going to the Olympics this year?

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:57Alex Cooper?

  I am going to the Olympics this year. We will be hanging out.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  I can't wait.

• 5:00Alex Cooper?

  Um, what are you most excited for about Paris?

• 5:03Speaker 01

  I am so excited. It's my first time going, not competing, so I don't really know what to expect, but I'm so excited. And I'm obviously the most excited to watch the gymnastics and I got to go to Olympic trials last week and it was so fun. And it was, it's so emotional watching everyone and I know everyone works so hard. So I am a huge fan of gymnastics too, and I grew up just being obsessed with it and watching it. And so I love watching incredible athletes from all over the world too. And I think that's what's so cool about the Olympics is obviously I'm rooting for the US team. And I think that they look so good and I'm so impressed with them. But I also love how as an eight-year-old, you know, one of my favorite gymnasts was a Ukrainian gymnast.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  And so I just feel like what's so cool is the whole world comes together and you just really appreciate just greatness and such incredible athleticism. So I'm so excited. And then I also want to go to like, my brother is coming and he wants to go to ping pong finals. I'm like, that would be so cool.

• 6:03Alex Cooper?

  Can we go together?

• 6:04Speaker 01

  I would love to.

• 6:04Alex Cooper?

  I'm like ping pong and then also like breakdancing is a sport officially in the Olympics this year. I'm like, I will be there. My favorite movie growing up was Step Up. Maybe Channing Tatum. Hit me up. We can go watch together. He's like, absolutely not. There are so many random things that I want to go see. Obviously, we have like the big massive sports that get so much like notoriety. But there's some like random things. I'm like, I want to go see fencing.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  I would love to.

• 6:27Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll go together.

• 6:28Alex Cooper?

  We'll go together. Um, you started gymnastics when you were two. Is this, like you think about that, I'm like, how do you, like two years old and you're starting gymnastics? And like, being an athlete, I feel like that just becomes so much of your identity from such a young age, right? But overall. We're going back to the beginning, like I love to do here on Color Daddy because it really paints the picture of who someone is. Like, how would you describe your personality when you were growing up?

• 6:54Speaker 01

  That's a good question.

• 6:55Alex Cooper?

  Aside from sexy Lexi.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  I've never been asked that. I think that, well, I was obsessed with gymnastics. I loved it more than anything else in the world. I just always wanted to be there. I'm the oldest of four, so I loved being a big sister. I still do. But I'm two years older than my brother Brett and then six years older than Chloe and eight years older than Madison. So I felt like I was like, I just like loved being the big sister. And I remember, you know, those little like cars, the little mini ones that like kids drive around. I just like would pretend I was like the mom and taking them around the driveway. Like, I just loved being a big sister and they used to sleep in bed with me every night, which is just so cute.

• 7:32Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god, where'd you grow up?

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Um, I grew up in Newton, Nida, Mass.

• 7:37Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, and I just, I have so many great memories of that. And then I just loved, I used to beg my coaches to let me stay later at practice. And actually thankfully, they wouldn't let me because they didn't want me to burn out. But I was so sad to leave the gym. I was obsessed. Like, I remember I would miss Halloween even at a young age because I wanted to be at the gym. I was just like so driven. I think you have to be like born with something a little bit extra crazy in you to be that intense. But I loved it.

• 8:05Alex Cooper?

  I can see how you, being the oldest, probably shaped a lot of then like your relationships in gymnastics. Because it's like you have this like maternal feeling about you. What was your relationship like to your parents?

• 8:18Speaker 01

  I'm very close with my parents. I still am. So very grateful for that. Because the older I've got, I've realized a lot of people don't have good relationships with their family. So I didn't realize when I was younger just how lucky I am for that. And I also appreciate how when I didn't do well at a meet or practice, they didn't get mad at me. And they were even more, I think, loving and supporting when I didn't do as well. And if they weren't supportive, I would have never survived. Like, I had teammates when I was younger that were actually better than me, but because their parents put so much pressure on them, they just couldn't do it. And I don't blame them. I wouldn't have been able to do it because we're already, I think, our own worst critic. And then our coaches are hard on us. And then you go home and your parents are on you. It's just, so I'm so glad my...

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Parents, I knew that if I didn't do well, they would be there for me and support me.

• 9:06Alex Cooper?

  Oh, that's like invaluable. Like I, playing soccer growing up had the same vibe with my parents where it was like they were so supportive. Of course, if I like asked them like what I could have done better at, like my mom was like, oh, I got you. Like I was watching, but she's not, I'm not getting in the car with a pit in my stomach that I'm gonna get yelled at. And I knew a lot of my friends had those parents that were like, the dad was yelling in the car, like screaming, like you've seen the parents that are like, insane shit that you're like, whoa, I can't imagine not being able to go home and escape it. And it feels like a full-time job. And we're talking about being like, seven, eight, nine, 10-year-old girls. And it's like,

• 9:43Alex Cooper?

  it's not that deep. It is, and it eventually became your like life. But it's also like you have to have balance and order, in my opinion, to survive and to go the distance, or else you just burn out.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  I completely agree. And I think that it also, maybe without the parents realizing it, it's, I think it teaches the kid that your only value is being a good athlete or being very successful. And I think it also, so many athletes struggle with their worth being wrapped up in how they do in the sport. And I know a lot of athletes struggle without it. Even for the Olympics this summer, so many athletes, if they do really well, they might not know who they are outside of their sport, because that's what they've been doing their entire life. And then if they don't do well, I think it's really hard if you don't have the support or the sort of like mental preparation, if you don't do well, um, to know that you're more than just your result. And like, everyone is human. It's really, I think, hard to accept that. So I always

• 10:39Speaker 01

  feel for athletes when I'm watching. Like I get nervous even when I don't know people, or even when I see a gymnast from another country. Like, of course, I want everyone to do well. And obviously, again, rooting for the US team. But even if I see a gymnast from another country, like not do well, I just feel so sad for them because you put so much into it. And I think so many athletes, their worth is wrapped up in their result.

• 11:01Alex Cooper?

  It is very intense. And I'm curious, though, because you saying you love to stay at the gym and you loved all these people, like, you decided to go to public school for high school. And I feel like- Like really intense athletes, specifically in gymnastics, they usually get homeschooled. How did you make that decision?

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Thankfully, my coaches and my parents were really wanted me to stay in public school. And I'm actually really glad that they did. I mean, everyone's on their own path. And to your point, a lot of my teammates were homeschooled. And so I feel like everyone has a different journey of what works for them. But for me, it was so important that I could go to school and have that balance. And I can remember I would train six days a week, um, four to seven hours every other day. Except Sunday I was off, but then 2016, when I was done with high school, I would sometimes go in on Sunday on my day off. So I was, I'm still exhausted. I'm still exhausted from it. Sometimes people, when I tell them that they're like, that's not bad. I'm like, yeah, it is. It was bad, but it was really exhausting.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  It was exhausting. I'm like still recovering from that, which we, we can get to after. But I can remember I would train in the morning and I would then like literally be like covered in chalk and like go right to school. Like I was so self-conscious because I'd like be like trying to like wash my body like really quickly. Go to school, trying to look cute for boys. I was so uncomfortable. High school is also so hard. I was so, so insecure. And then I would go to class and then I would quickly do my homework after school and then go back to the gym after. It was just so, I was so driven and so like none of my friends understood, I think, how serious I was about it. Like when I competed in 2012 at the Olympics, um, it was right after I graduated high school.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  And I remember my high school friends were like, you never told us you were like that good. And I was like, well, I don't know. What do you, I'm like, I don't know. I didn't want to say anything.

• 12:56Alex Cooper?

  You're also like, what did you guys think I was doing? I'm like bad at this thing, but I just get up every morning and go every afternoon and I just keep at it like, oh my God, Ally.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  It was so intense, but it's funny. One of my family members, I admitted to my mom, he's like, I have to admit. I always thought that, he said to my mom that you and my dad were crazy because he's like, I would. He was like, I would just watch you like drive Ally to practice over and over again. And I just thought it was so odd because I would, you know, miss a lot of days of school. I was, you know, like traveling all over the place. And he was like, I didn't understand how good she was. So he's like, it took me a really long time and I, he would, he was like, I kind of judge you. And now he's like, I just telling you I don't anymore, but.

• 13:37Alex Cooper?

  Wait, okay, hold on. No one knew how good you were. That's kind of interesting because why?

• 13:44Speaker 01

  I still, it's funny when people ask me about gymnastics in my career, like in normal life. Like if people don't know who I am, they're like, were you good? I'm like, I was fine. I don't know, I just like, it's just not something that, I don't know.

• 13:56Alex Cooper?

  Like medals on medals and you're sitting here being like, I think I was okay.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  I just, I don't know.

• 14:01Alex Cooper?

  What do you think that is?

• 14:02Speaker 01

  I, it's so funny. I'm so uncomfortable talking about gymnastics. I don't know. I think part, maybe some of it is that if it's someone doesn't know who I am, then I'm kind of, I'm like excited because I'm like, oh, they really like me for me. There's something about it where like, there's no, it makes me feel so good if I'm out somewhere and like a guy is interested in me and they don't know who I am because it just makes me feel like, oh, they like me for me.

• 14:30Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  And so I think it's that and I feel more connected to them. Um, it's not to say if someone does know, you, you, you know, you can kind of get the vibe when you know why someone's sort of talking to you. But I think it, maybe I feel very guarded, but then also I think gymnastics, I have such an interesting, complicated relationship with it that I feel like sometimes I don't love talking about it in my personal time all the time. But I'm doing a lot of therapy to work on that.

• 14:58Alex Cooper?

  No, I get it. And I think being a woman, like we just learn, like it's not even about the sport. It's just about how we are, we just learn in life. Like never be too confident because it will come off as cocky and like, don't talk about your accolades because now you're just like drawing attention to yourself. And like, that's just like what being a woman is like. And it's like, I'll brag for you. Um, you're amazing. Um, so you, did you like flourish with like friends in high school though? It sounds like you had like a lot of friends.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  I had, I had friends. I do feel like because I was gone a lot, I felt like I missed out a lot at the time because I can remember if I was. Away for a weekend at a competition. I'd come back on Monday and then I'd hear everyone talking about the fun weekend and everything happening. And so I feel like I, I can remember feeling left out a lot just because I, or FOMO maybe is the better word, but I felt like I had, everyone was very nice to me in high school and I had a good experience in high school. My friends were very supportive. I felt like people were very nice to me. And so, but I just remember feeling kind of like I was missing out on stuff and it was hard coming back and hearing everyone

• 16:13Speaker 01

  talking about how fun stuff was. And I, I remember being very insecure. Like I just didn't think that any guy in high school thought I was cute, which makes me so sad when I look back. And so I just remember, you know, any little thing that was wrong, I just felt like everyone was looking at it or everyone was noticing it. But in gymnastics, it's a subjective sport. So I was taught from a young age that like every little thing is picked apart. And it's actually really hard for me in life now to realize that people aren't looking at me like that, like no one cares. So it's a, it was very interesting, but in the moment I was so in the thick of always kind of being critiqued all the time that I thought other people thought of me that way.

• 16:53Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk a little bit more about that of like insecurities in high school? And it's crazy to even talk about high school because it's like in gymnastics world, like that is when most women are like really girls, I literally say girls are coming into their prime in the sport, but you're so young. Like what insecurities when you're talking about boys versus then what you're working towards on like in the gym? Like what were the insecurities for you personally?

• 17:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really interesting. So I, when I was younger, I used to get made fun of all the time for how muscular my arms were. And I remember when I was in fifth grade, the boys would make fun of me and told me I looked like I was on steroids and they would call me roids and it made me so sad. And this has affected me so much that at 30 years old, I have just started to be able to like wear like sleeveless or tank dresses. And it makes me so sad that I wasted that much time. But it's really incredible how, I guess incredible in a bad way, how When people make fun of you, how it can really stay with you. And then I remember in seventh grade so vividly, I was wearing a tank top and some guy told me that I looked disgusting and

• 17:59Speaker 01

  some of my arms were disgusting. And so I literally, actually, this was a big moment for me at Olympic Trials. Last week, I wore a dress that totally showed my arms. And I was saying to my mom, I was like, this is like such a big deal for me that I'm doing this because I would have been so self conscious and worried. And now I'm just trying, it feels so freeing to just trying not to worry as much, but it's just so, I think that like, as I do more therapy, it's amazing how much stuff sticks with us. And I think that's also why I have anxiety or social anxiety, because I'm like, I hope I've never said something that would ever stick with someone. I would feel so bad. And I know sometimes, you know, sometimes we, we're all human, we all say things, sometimes we don't

• 18:42Speaker 01

  mean, or we don't even realize someone interpreted in a different way. But I think I'm like so afraid of making someone feel the way that other people made me feel that I'm almost like too hyper aware. But so that was a really big one. I think I was always self-conscious of like my body, because in gymnastics, they were so strict with my weight. And even though we worked out so much, I still had to watch what I ate a lot. I also want to be careful with saying this because I know how many people struggle with body dysmorphia and eating disorders. So I think it's so important, no matter what sport you're in, to fuel your body and eat a lot of food. And I wish I could go back and tell myself to eat more and fuel my body, but I just felt so much

• 19:25Speaker 01

  pressure to always be skinnier and skinnier. And it was so unhealthy because I was already working out so much. And it's crazy for me to look back at photos of myself where I was being told to lose more weight. And I'm like, I was, didn't have an ounce of fat on me. It's just, I, this is for any of people that are athletes, and I'm obviously not a medical expert, so don't quote me on these exact numbers. But I do believe that women are supposed to have a higher body fat percentage than men. And I remember going into 2016 Olympics, I was very, very thin, just from the pressure in the sport to be a certain weight. And I was 22 years old, so I was kind of like fighting with like, becoming a woman and still looking like a little girl.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  And I remember um the person who was taking my body fat um they had said that I remember when I did it so go back actually when I was sixteen I had someone else do my body fat and they were saying that they'd never seen someone under twelve percent and they had said like women should be like eighteen or twenty percent I don't know how accurate the eighteen to twenty percent is so he was like so you're probably gonna be maybe around twelve and I remember I was at like eight percent and at the time I was sixteen and he was like really concerned about it he's like you're way too low that's and I was sixteen and then when I was twenty-two about to leave for the Rio Olympics I remember my body fat was at um five percent and I remember the person who uh works with NFL players was like I

• 20:55Speaker 01

  he was like this is not okay like you can get seriously hurt and this is this is terrible he's like I've never seen he's like even the guys sometimes being this low he's like you're lower than some of the men on the team and I remember I was like I just need you to there's nothing I can do about it because like this is what the judges and the coaches like need for me I was like I just need you to be supportive and tell me it's gonna be okay he's like I can't like he's like this is so dangerous for you and I actually feel like my body has never recovered from being that thin and like fighting against that so it's very it's very interesting because I can remember I would

• 21:34Speaker 01

  still eat and fuel my body but at the same time there was this like trying to like I can there was so much pressure I can remember like this is so gross now I'm like I've become more of a germaphobe as I've gotten older but this is so gross but it just like desperate times call for desperate measures like I remember times like literally because there was so much pressure to be thin I had to be careful what I ate in front of you know people on on the staff and I remember like I would go into like the airport in the plane bathroom which is disgusting and like eat a power bar so like no one would see me where that is just like so gross to me now but when you're so hungry it doesn't even seem gross but it was just so I remember like I would try to eat but there was so much pressure to be thin that it just was

• 22:18Speaker 01

  very very hard so I was very insecure about that in high school of course because I thought oh well the guys think that I'm big too so that's why they're not interested in me

• 22:27Alex Cooper?

  No and Ally like It's it's not gross, like it's so sad. Like that, I like my heart breaks for you that you had to go into that bathroom and to like eat in secrecy because of the coaches and like the mentality and the rules and the strictness. And like even thinking of like that doctor saying that to you of like, wait, you're a 5%. Like, do you think you were numb at that point? Like, did you feel anything? Like, what did you feel when someone said that to you and looked at you and said that to you?

• 22:59Speaker 01

  I think at that point, because the Olympics were so soon, I was just consumed with anxiety and stress all the time. It's just so, I just constantly had butterflies in my stomach and I was so nervous that. I also think part of it in a way was probably, I don't, I don't even remember. I think I was just, at the time, I had actually had a really sore Achilles and I was really stressed about that. That's obviously a terrible injury. And if, you know, something happened, I would be out. So I was really stressed about that. And I remember every morning waking up and like, it was so stiff in the morning and I'd have to like brace myself to get out of bed. Like, there's just so many things. I feel like now that I'm done, I'm so much more relaxed, but I remember

• 23:39Speaker 01

  just being so stressed, hoping that my body would keep it together. But I think one of my biggest concerns with competing was, I hope my muscles don't cramp up. And I feel I'm so exhausted. So that was what's so interesting to me is that I was so good at gymnastics and successful in the sport while I had like so little energy. My muscles were cramping up. I was so exhausted and so fatigued. And I also would, in 2016, I remember a couple of years maybe before the Olympics, I would start to get like extreme nausea. And I think because I was so thin for my size, I would like wake up in the morning and almost be like

• 24:20Speaker 01

  dry heaving because I was like gagging because I was so nauseous. And so it was really hard for me, and it's really hard when you're nauseous to eat. So I, I just remember feeling so sick all the time that I was so, I think I was numb and I was so dissociated because I just needed to get through it. And I was so nervous. Uh, it, I don't know. It was just such a weird thing. And I'm now like doing a lot of therapy and going through it, but it's hard because you're like reliving that and going through that. And it's a very, it's very interesting.

• 25:00Alex Cooper?

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• 27:10Alex Cooper?

  I appreciate you sharing this too, because I think what's really difficult for athletes is you hearing you say all of this and knowing you are like one of the best and you've won medals and gold and all of it and you've done what every gymnast dreams of doing. And then there is the dark side of it. And I think what we learn, and I appreciate these type of conversations is like, most people that get to the top of where they're at, there is also just like a lot of pain and suffering that goes into being the best at the time. And it doesn't mean that it's not a incredible sport and you are so talented. But the reality is like, there

• 27:51Alex Cooper?

  were a lot of things that happened throughout your career that probably could, someone could have been like, hey, can we do this differently? Can we protect you in so many different aspects? You know, and I, and my heart breaks for you, but I think that these type of conversations hopefully will help future athletes. Not that it's on you and it sucks that it had to go this way for you. But I know there's so many amazing things that came from your career. But now you're 30 and you're like, damn, I'm having to fucking peel this shit back and it is rough. And I can see it on your face. It's like, this is heavy shit. And I'm so sorry that it's

• 28:30Alex Cooper?

  like, the thing that you loved and that you're so fucking good at also caused you pain. And that is relatable and sad and fucked up. And it's tough. Like, it's tough hearing you say it. And I, and I appreciate you even saying it because I can imagine it's terrifying to even admit this because now is the headline just going to be like negatives about it. And I hope people don't see that. It's just like, no, this is just the reality. Yeah, this is the reality. And that's why I hope when we watch the Olympics this year, it's understanding that like, having grace for these athletes when someone doesn't perform at their best. It's not just because, oh, they had

• 29:10Alex Cooper?

  an off game or they had an off, like, no, they're, listen to what you're saying. The body, the pressure, the, half of it is just the mental. I know. People forget, like, this is, we are human beings. Like, there's so much more that goes into this than just the minute that the person is standing at the top and about to do the beam or what, it's like,

• 29:30Speaker 01

  So stressful.

• 29:31Alex Cooper?

  It's so stressful.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  It is. I like, it's funny because the Olympics are coming up. I like, I'm having dreams that I'm competing and I wake up, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad I'm done. I mean, look, like you mentioned, there's so many beautiful things that have come out of my gymnastics career, but it's also, it's such an interesting time right now. Obviously, as the Olympics comes up, I'm so excited and I can't wait. And I've been doing a lot of actually exposure therapy right now where, for people who don't know, it's sort of like exposing yourself to the trauma or whatever it is that has caused you stress or pain. So that could be, if you had someone that hurt you and they had wore like a specific perfume or a cologne, like maybe you like smell the cologne or the perfume every day to like remake better

• 30:15Speaker 01

  memories with that. Or it could be, you know, writing down a memory or talking about a memory or watching something. So I've been doing that a lot and that's been really helpful. But it's kind of like, sometimes it can make things worse before it gets better. Or I'm like, oh my God, I have so much to work through. It's so overwhelming. There's just so much there. And then there's stuff I forgot about. And now I'm like,

• 30:38Alex Cooper?

  It's coming back up. I was gonna say, like, I, I think a lot of women write in about therapy and, and everyone has like a different journey with like what type of therapy will work for them. And I think the exposure therapy is like, has been known recently to be very effective. But I was gonna ask you, like, in doing that type of therapy, are, do you have to be strategic? Like, if you know you're going on a long trip coming up, like if you're going to Paris, like, are you doing sessions while you're in Paris? Are you doing it before? Are you too anxious around this type of, like, we're talking about gymnastics right now and that's the crux of the trauma? Like, you know what I mean?

• 31:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. Such a good question. Yeah, it's, so, we actually have stopped doing the exposure homework. So what we, what I do is I do therapy every week. And then I would try to do exposure a little bit every single day. But because of, I had mentioned before, like, my body's never recovered. I've struggled with some, Health stuff which we can get into after from just like the over exhaustion of what I put my body through. So depending on the day, however, because there are so many actually like exposures of, um, you know, whether it's doing interviews or even going to Olympic trials was actually such a wonderful experience. And I'm so glad I went, but I was so nervous and just like being back in that environment, like certain smells or even like,

• 31:59Speaker 01

  there's like a bell that rings before you compete. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I haven't heard this in so long, like all these little things. So, um, I'm stopped the actual exposure homework and therapy, but I feel like I'm being exposed in throughout a lot of different things right now. So we're doing baby steps and just working on like ways to cope with some of that stuff. But it's been, um, it's really interesting and I'm glad like my therapist has really worked with me. Like, for example, there was, um, a person's name that someone who had abused me that their name was so triggering for me. And so like anytime I'd be with someone and they'd mention their name, not about the person, but maybe like their friend or someone they're golfing with.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  I was just like, I'd feel this like feeling. And so I would read a children's book with his name. That was just like, or I'd read a book about an athlete that had the same name. So it's like getting used to that name in a more positive way. And so I feel like my therapist has done such a good job of meeting me where I'm at because in the past, maybe another therapist is like, just tell me all about your trauma. I'm like, I just, let's just start with the children's book. Like I'll watch a little kid's show, something to like baby steps into it. And I've learned there's no right or wrong way. And I think like I have so many people come up to me all the time and share their stories of like being a survivor of abuse or their mental health struggles.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  And I always will say to them, like, if you're having a tough day, it's okay to watch your favorite show on Netflix or whatever it is. Like it's okay to just like give yourself a break because when you are, people don't realize when you've experienced trauma, you have PTSD, you're going through it, even if you're on the most beautiful island in the entire world, you are not there mentally sometimes and you're just like reliving your trauma over and over again. And so I always try to validate people's experiences because I think so many people don't understand trauma and like the mental side of it and how hard it is to. Be present when you're going through a hard time, like even if someone's hard time happened 10 years ago, you still could be living it every single day. You still could be

• 34:06Speaker 01

  super paranoid. You know, PTSD is like not one size fits all. It affects you in so many different ways. You could be totally fine and then there could be like, you know, someone's body lotion reminds you of a smell and it brings you right back. And so I think that we all just have to talk about it more. So we're all more aware of like how much people are struggling and dealing with and give people grace because sometimes you just need to, it's okay to just be home and take time for yourself. So I'm glad my therapist has kind of given me permission to, um, to just like take it really baby steps and she's really good about like taking a break and now finding like good coping ways if I feel stressed or something.

• 34:47Alex Cooper?

  No, and I love you sharing that too. Thank you. Because like, I love how you said like, I've had certain therapists that tell me one thing and it's like, it's okay if you do not vibe with a therapist. It's like dating, get out.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  I say it's like dating too.

• 35:00Alex Cooper?

  Right? Cause it's like, it doesn't even mean that person's a bad therapist. Of course they're a bad therapist, but it really is a match of like, there are people, there are certain even techniques, like you can't have a therapist asking, like you said, a certain like way. And maybe that works for someone else. You just have to like, it's not linear with PTSD and you have to just figure out what works for you and being like easy on yourself. But I also just want to say like, thank you for even just like talking whatever you feel comfortable because I can imagine it's fucking exhausting though. Just hearing you speak, Ally, like you're, you're so wise, but it's like, you are 30 years old, like you're so young and I can imagine it's like a lot of fucking pressure when people

• 35:43Alex Cooper?

  want you to speak up and like be an advocate and be the face of it. And it's like, you still have, you still have your shit that you have to work through. Like I, I hope that you know that like,

• 35:55Alex Cooper?

  It's not on you to like always help other people and like you focus on yourself in moments where you I can imagine so many young girls coming up to you is amazing, but it's also like you can't help them if you're not good.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  Thank you. I I feel I do feel a lot of pressure and I care a lot and I've even had male CEOs pull me aside and say I was abused as a child and thank you for saying something. So I've I've had a lot of men come up to me and share that. And I think that what's so hard about our world is that there are so many young boys and men who are survivors of sexual abuse and they don't feel comfortable saying anything because our society doesn't like there's so much pressure on men to be so tough and be manly and the statistics are so alarming, but there's also so many I think it's actually so much more than that. There's so many people who are really suffering in silence and I have some people sometimes who I'll be in the grocery store and they're like my abuse happened

• 36:54Speaker 01

  50 years ago. You're the only person I've ever told. And so I can't even tell you how much I've had to work on in therapy of like not overthinking what I say and worrying because I know from personal experience when we share what we've been through with someone and it's the only person, the first person like that is so correlated to how they're going to heal is being validating to them. So I feel I felt so much pressure and now I have found that when I'm honest and just real with them and just supportive that people are always like so understanding and I think people who have been through hard times always like give people the benefit of the doubt and are there for each other. But it is it's really it has affected me so much and it's interesting. I've

• 37:37Speaker 01

  never I've never actually shared this publicly at all because it's been something that I deal with I'd say most days and I think that I've thought about this a lot where I think that if I didn't train so intensely my whole entire life and I didn't experience trauma in my, you know, teenage years and younger years, I have actually been hospitalized several times for just like my body has, I read something on Instagram that I think really encapsulates it. It says, if you don't pick a day to rest, your body will pick it for you. And it was, it's happened twice where it's been like this intense, but I feel

• 38:17Speaker 01

  like I have different minor issues as well, depending on what I'm going through at the time, but where like I have literally stroke-like symptoms. I can't remember my name. I'm like slurring my words. I can barely speak. Both times I was tested for a stroke because like I literally couldn't move my body. It was so scary. And the first time the doctors had like absolutely no idea what it was. And it's, it was so scary because also my abuse happened with the doctor. So being in, the first time it happened was during COVID. And so they wouldn't let my mom in the ambulance with me. So I was also, it's really interesting because I'm, I can't, I can understand what someone is saying to me and asking me, like I know they're asking me what

• 39:01Speaker 01

  my name is, but I can't remember my name or say what my name is. And I was aware enough to know, like, oh, my God, I have two men, that I can't move my arms and my legs. I can't move my body. I can't speak. Like, what if they take advantage of me? And so that, at the time, this was years ago during COVID. So I was like really still struggling a lot with PTSD where people don't realize how much it still lives with you when you've been through something traumatic. So that was really hard, hard for me. And then it happened again a little bit over a year ago, where it was like I, it actually was in the hospital for three days. And like, they obviously don't keep you in the ER for three days for, for nothing, but it was really scary. And I remember, like, I, they wouldn't release me because I couldn't like,

• 39:47Speaker 01

  Sit up on my own. It took me so long. I needed help like walking, going to the bathroom. Like it was just the most to be able to to go from being like an athlete and being able to push myself so much to being able to literally not even be able to like move my fingers, move my legs. I had like complete like body paralysis um and not even to know like what my name is. It was so scary and it's something where like on a daily basis like I have to manage making sure that I'm not like because stress exacerbates it like what I have is a real medical thing, but stress makes everything worse. So I have to like be very on top of my therapy, but then also my therapist has to work with me of like if I'm starting to

• 40:32Speaker 01

  feel off like I just don't do the exposure stuff. So it's very, it's very hard and very interesting because I'm also like to your point, I'm very young. So to have something like that happen was very um hard. And then also when I went both times, actually the second time, they didn't know who I was when I first got to the hospital, which is totally fine. That shouldn't matter. And the only reason why I share that is because my mom had said that they kept coming in and asking me to like lift my legs and I couldn't. They kept saying, what's your name? And I was kind of just like it almost like even like lifting my finger would like take so much energy that I couldn't even like, I just was so out of it. And they kept kind of like rolling their eyes and not really paying much attention

• 41:17Speaker 01

  to me. And then finally, um, my mom was like, I really hate to do this, but you guys are like ignoring her. I think you think she's like, I don't know what's going on, but you should treat everyone the same way. But she's like, I just want to tell you because you're not believing her, but just to give you a perspective of how like abnormal this is and how freaked out I am. She she was like, do you know who Aly Raisman is? And they were like, yeah, we know who she is. And my mom was like, well, that's her. And then they were like, oh, my God. And then from there, they like took such great care of me and were there for me. And I'm like, it's, I want to share that because it's appalling. Like, it doesn't matter who you are. Everyone deserves to get excellent medical treatment. And I don't know why they were like rolling their eyes at me or thought I was faking, but it wasn't until they realized.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  That I was a very high level athlete, that they were very nice to me and taking care of me, which is just like, that's also triggering for me because I already have trust issues with doctors. So it was just really, it's just, it's been a very complicated um thing. And then I also have anxiety, like, what if I don't feel well again? Because there's the fear of like, when I'm in Paris this summer, I'm going to be so busy. There's going to be a lot of triggers. I might see someone that maybe didn't protect me in the past. And so I always am just like, so it's working on that. It's very complicated. So I know that was a lot, but.

• 42:35Alex Cooper?

  I, first of all, I want to just like pause and be like, I'm so sorry again. Because yes, you like went through it all. I'm like, wait, Ally, Ally, Ally, wait. I want to like hug you. I'm like, I'm so sorry. Hearing the effects of what happened to you in the past, still live with you, I think is so important to highlight because it's infuriating when people, and there are ignorant people out there that believe that like, well, it happened so long ago. What, why aren't like, and you said you went to therapy, like, why aren't you better? Like, this is with you for the rest of your life.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:16Alex Cooper?

  And not that it is going to define you, or not that you can't like live a happy life, but like, this happened to you and it was so traumatizing that this is like, this is going to impact you. This is going to impact like you, like I want to talk to you about your future relationships and all of that we're going to get to, but like, I just think it's important to have these conversations though, because it's like educating people on the concept of like, this lives forever. And this isn't something that goes away. And those photos that the entire world remembers of all of you standing there together and speaking up on this, that was like day one of the beginning of the rest of your life of like trying to heal from this. And so like you talking about these effects, I, I think it's really important and it is like.

• 44:03Alex Cooper?

  It's, it's, I think important we're having this conversation around the Olympics of like, there are so many newscasters and broadcasters and people that stand and it's almost like the athletes are like horses. It's like, go, like, everyone go, like, win, and it's so fun to watch. But we have to stop like neglecting to acknowledge that like, these are also the realities and it doesn't take away from the beauty of sports, but it's the reality of a lot of the things that are happening behind sports. And it's on all of us to listen. And to now, like, whenever someone sees anything happening again, like, someone better stand the fuck up. And I hope that this is like, again, it's not your job to educate these people, but I hope this can change the culture slightly.

• 44:48Alex Cooper?

  And I believe it will. I believe the two of us sitting here and continued conversations, like, I believe this will empower people to speak up, but it's, it's fucking hell and it's a lot. It's a lot to go through as you're sitting here. I'm just like, I'm, I'm so sorry. There's no right thing to say other than like, I hope people can listen to you and hear you and know at home if they have endured anything similar.

• 45:13Alex Cooper?

  We see you and it, and anyone that's trying to say, well, it happened so long ago. It happened when you were five. Oh, well, then it's definitely with you forever. Like, this is ingrained in you and you can get through it, but don't feel like you have to get over it.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I think also both can be true. Like, I love gymnastics and I have so many wonderful memories with my teammates and I'm still so close with them. And there's been, I'm so proud of my gymnastics career and I'm so excited to watch the Olympics. But then also, it could also be true that there was also a lot of moments that were really hard for me and I still struggle with it to this day. And I also think to your point of, you know, whether someone, I think a lot of times people will, naturally, I think when people have been through hard times, we'll be like, well, mine wasn't as bad. We kind of justify why it's not as bad. So I also want anyone who's listening to know, like, don't compare your experience to mine, whether your abuse happened one time

• 46:12Speaker 01

  or hundreds of times or thousands of times. Every experience is real and valid and it all affects us in different ways. And you didn't do anything wrong and it's not your fault. And just know that if you're struggling and to your point, if it was 10 years ago, yesterday, Fifty years ago, it's okay to still feel however you're feeling. Um, I think that there's not enough people telling people that have been through hard times that we all are on our own path. And you know, also, I think sometimes people might not be ready to do exposure therapy. And that's fine. It took me a really long time to be like, I'm ready to take this on because it's really hard to open stuff up. And I think if you want to, it's important to find a therapist who will like really do baby steps with you. And also,

• 46:56Speaker 01

  I'm here to validate. I also, I get so annoyed when people ask me why I'm tired. I just like can't stand it. Because I also think like, why do people need an excuse to be tired? You have no idea what someone's going through. You could have like, the most, you know, incredible job in other people's eyes. But if you're having anxiety, if you're stressed, we have no idea what people are dealing with at home or in their personal life. And I just think stress can be so exhausting. Like I have seen the way that my stress and trauma has affected my health so much to the point where it has made me so careful. Like when someone's like, I'm tired. I'm like, that's cool. Like just go rest and take care of yourself. But I think people can be really judgmental. We're judgmental with ourselves and we're tired, but we're also

• 47:40Speaker 01

  judgmental when with other people, I think. And it drives me nuts. Like when someone's like, well, why are you tired? I'm like, I don't have to explain myself to you. Like you have no idea what I'm dealing with. And also, like, this would probably shock people too, but I barely have worked out in eight years because my body is just like so tired. And it's interesting, like, I don't recover because of the similar with the hospital stuff, like my body doesn't recover the way that it used to. So if I were to run even for like, a couple of minutes, like it might actually take me like several days to recover, or I'll get like a migraine, or I'll get super nauseous. So like, I just have to be very careful and get very creative with

• 48:23Speaker 01

  how I take care of myself. But I think that, you know, for people who are obsessed with working out, like they might be like, well, why don't you work out? Like, and my favorite is like when I'm, it's funny when you talk about dating, like when I've dated guys. A lot of them are like, but if you work out, you'll feel better. I'm like, no, I have like a full on like medical diagnosis and like, I'm gonna be okay. Like my doctor is like confident that it's not gonna get worse because I'm aware of it and everything, but I'm like, I, just because you might feel better working out. Like right now for me, it literally makes me like almost like vomit and I get a migraine. So I just have to do like, I might have a good day, but sometimes when you have a good day as an athlete, I like push myself too much and then I'm exhausted, but

• 49:03Speaker 01

  people, it's been hard with dating to get a guy to be very empathetic and like know how to like be there for me if I don't feel well. Like people, people don't always know how to like handle it well. And my mom is so good at it. Like in the times where I've gone to the hospital, my mom, instead of being like, you're fine. Cause that's also the worst. You're like, I'm not fine.

• 49:23Alex Cooper?

  Right. You're like, I'm feeling shit. No, I can't walk.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. So when um, my mom will always just say, they're gonna help you. Like it's okay. I'm here for you. They're gonna help you. And that is just like everything I need to hear because it's like, she's validating like this is crazy and we're gonna figure this out. We're gonna help you, but she's also like there for me and encouraging me, but other people just like, don't know what to say. They're just like, just breathe. You'll be fine. I'm like, no, I literally, I literally am laying on the floor. I can't move my body.

• 49:49Alex Cooper?

  I think sometimes like note to anyone that finds themselves doing that, which I understand, maybe you're trying to help, but it's like sometimes not saying anything, but being like, I'm here for you is all you need to do.

• 50:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:02Alex Cooper?

  Like stop trying to solve the problem. Why are you tired? Cause I'm depressed? Cause I'm anxious? Like whatever it is. Just saying like, I'm here for you. Let me know if you need anything. Like, and shut up.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:12Alex Cooper?

  Just shut up. Like sometimes people, it's like read the room. Like just stop. Um, your dating life and, and let's, I want to talk about this because it is all intertwined. And I think there's so many young women that listen to this podcast that like,

• 50:27Alex Cooper?

  It's it's hard because when people write in and ask me questions, I wish all the time I could sit there and answer all of them being like, well, I need backstory. Like, what was your upbringing? Like, it all is affecting when you're trying to date and the men that you're picking or the women you're picking or whoever you're picking. So, obviously, you're in this moment of your life right now. We're kind of trying to like, process separating and correct me if I'm wrong, but like, kind of process separating your identity from gymnastics and then separating that of like, Ally and like, the adult woman you are today. And like, you're trying to separate that. And in dating, that's like a third head that's popped up. That's like another beast that you have to take on. In this article that you wrote, it was so brilliant and beautiful. When I read it, I was like, I wanted you to read the whole thing today, but I'm not gonna make you

• 51:12Alex Cooper?

  do that. But I have a card that I printed out that has a couple lines from your article that I want you to just read because I thought it was so profound and accurate. And when you, when I was reading it, I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yeah. So, if you don't mind just reading this for the

• 51:28Speaker 01

  daddy gang. Yes. This is actually my favorite part.

• 51:31Alex Cooper?

  Me too.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  This is like one of the first things that I had written. Um, okay. "I've lost count of how many times people have told me, you're too picky. You're difficult. Your standards are too high. Give him another chance. You're probably intimidating him. Maybe you should make yourself smaller. Your biological clock is ticking. Don't you want to have kids? You should put yourself out there more. How are you still single? Rarely am I asked, how are you? How do you feel with your partner? Do you like the person you are when you're with them? You're single? That's great. It's so important to take time to figure out who you are."

• 52:06Alex Cooper?

  Preach, bitch. Like, what the hell? When I read that, it felt like it, it was so, like, truly emblematic of every young woman's experience with society of like, we give him another chance. Like, why don't you? And it's like, because I don't like him. Because he makes me feel like shit. Because it's toxic. Like, there's just so many things that women go through in their twenties and thirties when they're trying to find a partner. And so, I want to talk to you, first of all, like, why did you decide to write this article? And I'll link it in the description, daddy gang, so you guys can all read it because it's amazing. But why did you decide to write that?

• 52:49Alex Cooper?

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• 53:33Alex Cooper?

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• 53:47Speaker 01

  I feel like I'm always trying to think about ways of how I can talk about things that are important to me, but it's also really important to me to be relatable and I want to be relatable and I know that so many people are going through so much different stuff and I know for myself that I do feel the pressure. I've even, I love my parents, but I've literally had to tell them, like, you, I, like, yeah, like every time they would be like, well, we really want to have grandkids. I'm like, I would love to be a mom one day, but like, you can't control when you're going to find the right person. And I'm like, I love you guys so much and I would love to give you grandkids, but let's just take a beat.

• 54:29Speaker 01

  And so they like, I told them one time and now they, now it's like totally fine, but they, they're so well intentioned, they're just excited. But I also will tell my mom and dad's stories, like when I don't have great experiences with dating and because I want them to understand it's not easy to find that right connection. And I think it's very, it's a very different time than when they were dating, when they were younger and I just know that.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  There's a lot of people who feel the pressure to find someone and I think that especially in this Instagram social media world, there's so much pressure for like this perfect relationship and we want to post the most perfect version of ourselves and you know, no matter who you are, nobody's life is perfect, no one's relationship is perfect, but I also think it's kind of interesting to me, it almost feels like there's this like pressure that in our late twenties, we're like supposed to find the right person and I feel like the odds of us all finding that right person is just not realistic and I wanted to sort of be a part of the narrative of trying to change that because it is so much pressure and I feel like

• 55:35Speaker 01

  even I was just for um July 4th weekend, I was with friends and just like the amount of people that were like, are you dating anyone? And I'm just like, I don't, I now no matter what, I'm like, oh no, I'm not, I just don't. I also kind of feel more guarded and protective because I've shared so much publicly that I'm very protective over people that I date in my relationships, just because it should be sacred and special and I think that um it is, it's it's really hard to find that good fit and I also feel like you know, I've gone through so much that I didn't really have the confidence to know who I was and I feel like now I'm like just feeling more confident and it's really interesting because I feel like now I'm finally at the point where I feel

• 56:16Speaker 01

  like when I was younger dating in my early twenties, it was so hard in the early twenties because I was so afraid to like Tell me about it. even tell them like, wait, this makes me uncomfortable or I don't want to do this. And now it's so interesting. The more I communicate, whether it's like from the first date or the first text, they're so like, they're more into me because of it. It's really interesting and I I feel really grateful for that because it makes me feel, I feel like very quickly I realized who actually is really supportive and understanding and it makes me, when I do communicate what would make me more comfortable and they're Like totally fine with it. In fact, go out of their way to do that. It just makes me feel so much safer with them. So it's, it's, I'm going into dating very differently now where I'm not as afraid to be like, I really would like this. This would make me feel good. Where I was so afraid,

• 57:01Speaker 01

  I think I was afraid they would leave. Then you know.

• 57:04Alex Cooper?

  They're actually like, amazing. Thanks for letting me know. I think that's so relatable. And thank you for sharing that because boundary setting with like a romantic partner. And when I say romantic partner, it could be your first date. Like you're trying to come off like, you know, fun time girl. And like, you want to not bring like your baggage and be like, when do we have this conversation? And there's so many things that everyone wonders. Like I was having a conversation with my sister recently. We were having fun girl talk and like, she was asking me a question and I was like, this is such a good question. Like she's dating and she was like, is it weird if I bring this up here? And I was like, I don't think so. But you know, what if you do and he acts weird? Leave the date. Like, there's so many things that you second guess yourself

• 57:46Alex Cooper?

  for when you are dating. And I think it's so understandable because there are so many pieces of shit out there that can make you feel small and that can make you feel insane for bringing something up. And to have you now realize like, oh my God, I said what I've always wanted to say. And like, I was just met with like, amazing. Like, thanks for letting me know. And you're a little like, wait, but you probably couldn't have done that back then, not because you weren't actually capable of saying those words. It's a confidence thing. And it's like a learned habit that you just have to like, exercise the muscle more to become, because it's actually not about them. It's all about you. It's about you being able to sit there and to advocate for yourself and be able to even express that. Because maybe in your early, early twenties, you didn't even know you

• 58:29Alex Cooper?

  needed that. Yeah. You knew it was uncomfortable, but you didn't know why or like what to say or what if you didn't want that, what did you want? Now you're like, yeah, she's figuring it out. I'm interested, like, have you ever kind of like, continued seeing someone because you just felt like you were behind and you were like, fuck it. Like, I'll just keep kind of like, I'll go on another date because I'm single and like, whatever, before you kind of like, got to this new

• 58:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a good, I feel like. Yes, I have, but it's okay. Someone told me recently and it really helped me there. Cause I was saying, I was like, oh my God, I'm like so like cringing that I dated this person for so long. And they're like, if you're not looking back and cringing, you're not growing. And I was like, that is what I needed to hear. That made me feel better.

• 59:14Alex Cooper?

  Pause on that for all the daddy gang. If you are so embarrassed by an ex of yours, me included, let's all pause and you're so right. It just means growth. It's growth. Thank God. We're all cringing being like, ah.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  But I'm just sometimes like horrified at the stuff that I would put up with, you know?

• 59:31Alex Cooper?

  Can you give me an example? Like, obviously we're not talking specific people, but just like a little example.

• 59:35Speaker 01

  I feel like it's interesting. I, something that I've struggled with with dating is that in the beginning, the guys are like really great. They're happy, they're chill and, and also to what we were talking about before, I would want, I want a guy to communicate to me what they want too. And I also have had a therapist one time told me this and I've never forgotten it because I used to like wait. And then I'd like, we'd talk about it and be like this whole thing where like, it's funny. I feel like if you bring something up and it's like just the littlest bit, like on your mind versus like you have like a 30 second conversation about it. And the other person's like, great. Like you're on the way to dinner. You're like, hey, by the way, this would like really mean a lot to me if we did this instead or didn't do this. And they're like, cool. Whereas if you wait till it happens like 50 times, then you have a three hour conversation about it.

• 1:00:19Speaker 01

  So I, I try to like also just bring it up really fast and then it's quick and it's done. And then they like, forget about it. It's not a big deal. And I would want the same.

• 1:00:27Alex Cooper?

  Such a good point.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  For them, but I've struggled with, I think, I don't know if it's because some of the guys I've dated maybe weren't like, okay with my success or my life. But I feel like they've gotten very resentful and very moody. I don't know if like moody is the right word, but have you ever dated a guy that's very moody? Cause it is just not fun.

• 1:00:47Alex Cooper?

  Oh, it is miserable because then you're tiptoeing around them.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  Everything's ruined.

• 1:00:51Alex Cooper?

  You are on eggshells and it almost, it's, you know what it is? I feel like that's so interesting. I've had that where because of their insecurity about your success, through the moodiness and through the like the lashing out moments. It, it's a way, it's like a power tactic. Where it becomes all about them. Everything is on their terms and you're kind of like, we are we still going to dinner? Or are you pissed and we're just now going to sit here in silence? Like, what are we doing? And like, everything is on their terms, but it's all like a manipulation tactic at the end of the day. And like, it may not be so manipulative in what they're doing. It's the insecurity that breeds this like, how can I gain control because I feel so out of control because she's the one in a position of power in their mind? Meanwhile, you're literally like, in, in my success, that has nothing to do with you.

• 1:01:36Alex Cooper?

  Like, I'm here in this relationship. Why are we acting like moodiness?

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  Oh, it is like, I would say, that's something that immediately like within, like, immediately I bring that up to any new guy I'm dating. I'm like, this is a total deal breaker for me. I can't, like, a guy is allowed to be upset or in a bad mood, but when you take it out on me and you're mean to me and you, like, ruin something that we're doing together, that's not okay. But everyone is allowed to, everyone has good days, bad days. Like, if someone's in a bad mood and they're like, I'm in a really bad mood, but like, I need like, I'm gonna go to the gym or I need some space or like, can we talk about it? Totally fine. But when, I'm sure you've had like, when you do something together and you're like, I, we just went to this concert. I would have gone with my friend. I'd rather you have not gone. Or like, why are we going to dinner together if you're just like miserable?

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  Like, I would have rather you told me and we wouldn't have done that. So I just, that is something I look back and cringe on. I'm like, I think because I'm a people pleaser and I tried, I really wanted to help them. I didn't realize there's like a difference between being supportive to your partner and then having them treat you not well. So I am learning that, but that is something like I immediately bring up to a guy. I'm like, I am like, that is a deal breaker for me and I'm not gonna be treated like that.

• 1:02:47Alex Cooper?

  That's interesting. When you look back at that, like, moodiness is like one thing. And I feel like now that you're talking about it more, it's a little bit more than moodiness, Ally.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

• 1:02:57Alex Cooper?

  I'm like, wait a second.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was, it's, I don't think I realized.

• 1:03:01Alex Cooper?

  Moodiness is the people pleaser and you being like, he's just moody. I'm like, hold on.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  No, I think it's, yeah, it's, yeah, you're right. Yeah, you are right. Add that to the list of therapy.

• 1:03:13Alex Cooper?

  Right, right. You're like, hold on. Write that down. Hold on.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the thing that I'm like, that is a full-on deal breaker for me.

• 1:03:20Alex Cooper?

  Not treating you right.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  But it's interesting because I don't wanna like, you know, Given to, well, it's interesting. Like when you think about stereotypes, I feel like women are stereotypically told that we're very moody and like we're like on our periods and everything. And this is just in my experience. So I'm not trying to generalize, but like the women in my life are not in bad moods. And I honestly, I honestly like, or if they're in a bad mood, they'll like communicate with me. But I really, there are a lot of men in my life that are, do not, and I think it's because our society doesn't let men be men. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for a moment, but like, I feel like a lot of men

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  in my life, and not even just in relationships and different areas, will take out their bad mood on me. And I'm also like sometimes too nice where I'm working on, I need to be better at being like, it's just, it's very hard for me. But it's really interesting because I'm like, why is there such like stigma that women are always moody? But I think because we're more open about therapy, we could call each other and be like, I'm having the worst day. We talk it out and we're good. But I don't think men have that same outlet.

• 1:04:28Alex Cooper?

  Okay. I think you're onto something and you're so right. I think it's this. I think women are more emotional in the best way because we actually express our emotions and we actually are trying to like constantly work through things. And the way that we get through it is most of the time communicating, like if I'm upset, I'm going to say something. We all know that we cannot hold back like.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  Are you good at saying something if you're upset?

• 1:04:53Alex Cooper?

  Oh yeah, I've gotten better, but even when I was bad at it and I hadn't been in therapy, like it's gonna come out one way or another. It's just a matter of if it's coming out immediately or am I gonna go sit in the room for an hour and then I'm gonna walk out and tell him I'm upset? Like it's coming out with men. Men are moody, women are emotional, and I would way rather be emotional because at least I'm in tune with my emotions. The moodiness is this big twister of a storm of all these things. And it's like poke the bear and they're so moody. And it's like, why are you moody? They can't tell you because they don't know how to half the time express their emotions. Bye.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  I just wish men knew, like, I find it so attractive when a guy is vulnerable and open. Like, if a guy, it's so, I think it's so hard to find a man who's secure enough in himself to be like, can you just sit down with me for a minute? I'm like, having a really tough day, or I'm struggling on this. Like, I would feel so into that and so attracted to that, that I wish more men knew that that is so attractive. And I, I feel, I have empathy for them, that they feel like they can't, they have to be so tough all the time. Cause it's so, there's literally nothing better when you're like on a date and you're just like vibing and, and you're just like so present. Yeah, connecting about stuff and it's just, it's really nice to have that connection where you both don't feel judged. You both can go to each other.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  And I think that that is hard to find. And that's like, I think relationships, it should be, they should be hard to find. Cause I think that's what makes like finding the right person, um, you know, more special.

• 1:06:16Alex Cooper?

  Um, in your twenties, what partners were you pursuing? Like, describe.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  Oh, um, I used to, I used to really go for the athletes, the professional athletes.

• 1:06:27Alex Cooper?

  Oh.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  And, um, it's really hard to find a really good one. Um, there have been a few very sweet ones and I'm grateful for that. But, yeah, it's, um, it was, it's hard, it's hard to find a good one. I just think that.

• 1:06:44Alex Cooper?

  Give me some qualities of theirs.

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I definitely wasn't treated, um, the way I think that girls deserve to be treated, I think. Um, yeah, I think that was definitely my type.

• 1:06:54Alex Cooper?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:54Speaker 01

  But I also will say what's interesting is like for years, people were like, you gotta stop dating the athletes. And I was like, alright, I'll date, like, I'll go on a date with anyone. And I've been like so open, I literally would like, if someone set me up with someone, I'm like, I don't need to see a picture. Like, I'll just go on a date and I'd go on these dates and I'm like, okay, maybe I should be like, it's like finding the, I was trying to like, find the right balance of like trying to be more open. Because I also think it's like crazy when we meet someone, you feel a vibe and like, you know, you think about like, maybe if someone showed you a photo of them, you wouldn't have maybe said, yeah. So I try to be like, very open. minded but like even dating guys who are not professional athletes and like not in the

• 1:07:36Speaker 01

  public eye like some of them are not great either so it just really just depends I think that there's always like good guys and same thing with I'm sure guys will say the same thing there are some girls who they are women they've dated that are wonderful and others like we all have had probably good and bad experiences but um I think that what I've also learned I'm curious what you think about this is like I used to take it so personally when I was younger like if I dated an athlete they were probably texting thirty people at the same time like if they're not looking for something there's just most of the time there's no chance like they're not interested and it's not I wish I knew like dating wasn't personal because I used to take it very personal when I was younger and now I'm realizing like

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  at least for me I feel like guys show pretty quickly like what they're looking for and what they're interested in like I'd have a guy like years ago who like you know would like text me like once every you know two weeks or like barely take my turn I'm like oh my god do you think he's just busy it's like no he's just not interested

• 1:08:34Alex Cooper?

  he's definitely not busy yeah he could be busy but he's also not interested

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  yeah like I think now I do a better job of not overthinking and just being like they're either like I love I saw something on Instagram it's like when a guy is into you you know if you're confused it's just not it and I really tell myself that too like it doesn't mean especially in the beginning like every person has like a different cadence of how like even if you know sometimes I think people get so caught up in like oh if you're texting every day or doing this like is are they taking you out to dinner are they showing interest are they like you I think that our gut is usually right and we should listen to that more because I think that that is something I wish I listened to more is like understanding that if a guy is like looking then they're looking but if they're not it's like it's kind of hard to I think in

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  my experience like change their minds

• 1:09:26Alex Cooper?

  I completely agree with you and I think though what I have started to realize I would say in the past couple of years is like I used to look at it a lot like oh I wish I would have done differently and I actually the only thing I would change about everything you're saying is like I think that guys definitely do show you immediately like what they're kind of down to give you. And I think a lot of the times when we are not completely like full within ourselves and healthy and good and like know exactly what we want, we ignore that and we just choose to like kind of see what we want out of them. And I think that's normal and that's natural because

• 1:10:05Alex Cooper?

  that just means you're not ready for that end game relationship yet. You still have work to do because if you are going for someone that is treating you like that, it's because you're working something out on your end of like you needed to get this certain validation and you liked this one part of them and you're completely ignoring the part where they're like treating you like shit. And then eventually it ends because you wake up to being like, I feel like shit. Why is this happening? And then you go to the next relationship and then maybe if you go for something a little different, it's because you're looking for something different to fill the void of XYZ. All of a sudden, these string of moments of dating all these different people builds you into this healthy person because you start to just create your palate of like taste of like,

• 1:10:49Alex Cooper?

  I like this. I definitely would never go for that because we all know it. You go on the date and all of a sudden you're like, I remember my ex did that. I'm nope, I'm not interested and you're out. But you needed to learn it in the first place to even recognize it. That's how I felt like when I met Matt. I, there were so many green flags and I, I always say, had I met Matt when I was like 22, I would have probably not dated Matt because I wasn't ready for Matt. So like, I think in a way, when you're dating, there's, there's almost like a hopeful element I can give to all the girls listening of like, and you of like, this is really exciting because you are like

• 1:11:30Alex Cooper?

  building this like repertoire of like memory and understanding and you're just understanding what you like, what you don't like, and you're putting up with things as shitty as it feels in the moment, that you'll never put up with again, unless you don't grow. And half of the battle is on you. When people are like, God, what, this happened to me again. Did it happen to you or did you put yourself in that position again?

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  I know I once had a, actually a male therapist say to me one time, um, he was like, I was just talking to him about dating and he was like, why do you think you're attracting these people who are treating you that way? I was like,

• 1:12:05Alex Cooper?

  fling yourself out the window.

• 1:12:07Speaker 01

  Okay, um, you have a point. I was like, but maybe you can say, you could say it a little bit nicer. But he was like, why do you, what do you think is like wrong with you that you're attracting people like that? And I was like, that is something that, like, I'm the common denominator. So like, I have to, and also that is separate from like, if someone's in an abusive relationship, very different, like,

• 1:12:27Alex Cooper?

  very different.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  Very, very different. Um, but for me, like, I just had to take a hard look at being like, I also go through phases where like, I'll go on dates and then I'm like, I need a break and I need to take,

• 1:12:37Alex Cooper?

  dating fatigue.

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I need to take some time for myself and it's really interesting because like the times where I'm the most happy being single and on my own, I like really try to think about, I'm only gonna date someone or let someone in my life if they just like, enhance or add to my life. And I think that really helps when I have that foundation of knowing what I want and what I'm looking for, but it is, it's, it's, um, I definitely like the idea of being with someone when it's not right is just so lonely to me and I just don't want that.

• 1:13:08Alex Cooper?

  It's so lonely and I, I need to find this article. I read it so many years ago that my mom sent me. Now, looking back, I'm like, I think she sent this to me when I was in my previous relationship that I was miserable and thanks mom. And it's a little like diagram that this person wrote and it's an article about how like, someone that is single is one step away from a healthy relationship. Someone that is married in, or in a relationship, in a miserable relationship, is three steps away from a healthy, happy relationship because they have to remove themselves from that relationship. Then they have to get good on their own again and then they can start to seek health and happiness with another person. But it's like,

• 1:13:48Alex Cooper?

  that's so exciting and you have to be, I be so intentional about who you let into your space, but I agree. It's like, you have to get so good with yourself. Cause that's when you really start to attract good energy. When you get out of a relationship and you fling yourself to the next, that's when you're just kind of like off balance, just trying to find anything that will like make you feel happy. But for a quick moment, it's not like you're actually stable enough to be like, hold on, what did I learn from that relationship? Let me be alone for a minute. Now let me go find something better. It's really tough, though. It can get exhausting.

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  It is exhausting. I'm curious what you think about this because I feel like a lot of people are, have different opinions on like, when I go on a first date, like, if I am not excited to see them again, like if I'm even on the fence, I'm not going on a second date. I'm curious what your perspective is on that. I just think it should be like, easy and comfortable.

• 1:14:38Alex Cooper?

  Okay, I have thoughts.

• 1:14:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:14:48Alex Cooper?

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• 1:15:28Alex Cooper?

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• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  Did they kiss?

• 1:16:02Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 1:16:03Speaker 01

  Sometimes you don't know until you kiss.

• 1:16:04Alex Cooper?

  Right, I agree, I agree.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  Sometimes it's like, I will say that, like, sometimes there's almost this like awkwardness.

• 1:16:09Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 1:16:09Speaker 01

  And then when you kiss,

• 1:16:10Alex Cooper?

  You need to get out of the way.

• 1:16:11Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 1:16:11Alex Cooper?

  I kind of like, I'm so down for a first kiss on a date. Like, I actually condone it.

• 1:16:16Speaker 01

  Well, you know what's kind of funny is sometimes like, I feel like it's funny, the guys who are really comfortable, just like grabbing you and kissing you on the first day. I found sometimes they're just like so smooth, know what they're doing and maybe they're a little bit more of a player.

• 1:16:28Alex Cooper?

  Yes, I agree.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  But like, so it's, and then sometimes the guys that are a little bit more timid, not always, but they're just like, trying to be like really sweet and respectful and it just depends on like, their experience. Like if you're dating a professional athlete, like they,

• 1:16:42Alex Cooper?

  Grabbing the back of your neck and you're like, ah, romance. But then like three weeks later, you're like, hello?

• 1:16:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. You're like, wait, you just ghosted me. You just told me you wanted to date me and then you just ghosted me. What just happened?

• 1:16:52Alex Cooper?

  We were getting married. Okay.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  It just depends. It depends on who it is. You have to like know the person. So I think it depends. Like, I do, yeah.

• 1:17:03Alex Cooper?

  Here's my theory. Okay, my theory is this. What my friend said to me was she was like, well, you said that like you and Matt had sparks immediately on the first date. And I'm like, that is true. However, I have been in love before and I have been in love with people before that I didn't feel the like insane spark on the first date. And so I think my, my new rule to that I tell my friends is unless it was like so bad that you were like, whether it was how they spoke about something that you're like, I don't like the way they spoke about like their family or their mom or like, whoa, that was a red flag. If it was like a, it was a good date. Like, I don't know if the vibe is there, but I can't tell. Like, go on the second date.

• 1:17:45Alex Cooper?

  Because I feel like first dates, unless you are a fucking pro, and then yet again, why are you a pro at first dates? It is like harder than a job interview, in my opinion, because a job interview, you have your piece of paper and you're reading your exact qualifications and it doesn't actually matter that much on your personality. This is like every fucking thing of the delicate dance of your looks. Your, are you funny? Are you charismatic? What's your personality? Do you vibe? It all has to match perfectly in one hour at a dinner like. Give it a second shot. I think once the second date doesn't go well, never see them again. But um, if it was like a hmm, I don't know, I would say try it again. And I would say try a

• 1:18:28Alex Cooper?

  different vibe than the first date. So if you did a dinner, now go do an activity. If you did an activity, now go sit down and have face to face dinner. I would say do a second date.

• 1:18:37Speaker 01

  I think it also depends on if you're dreading going on a second date.

• 1:18:41Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:42Speaker 01

  Don't, but I think if you're.

• 1:18:42Alex Cooper?

  Check in with yourself. Check in with yourself because I used to do that. And it was like, am I dreading going on the second date? Does it have anything to do with him? Or am I being lazy? And am I being, and when I say lazy, I'm not actually being lazy. Am I being like, I want this to be easy? I wanted to feel it immediately. I wanted the spark to be there and I wanted to be a done deal and I wanted to be like boom. It's not easy because do the work in the beginning, because then once you actually in a relationship like that's also another set of just hell where you're like figuring out each other's trauma and boundaries and family shit like. The first date, I don't know. I don't think, I don't think we can count people out unless there is a glaring issue. You're like, okay, let me open my phone.

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  No, I feel like a lot of people say that. But what do you think about if you're on a first date or a second date? And you kiss and they kiss, you don't feel that's that um, I don't want to use the word spark because I feel like that's like unrealistic, but you just.

• 1:19:35Alex Cooper?

  Connection.

• 1:19:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not there. Do you, I don't, I think if you don't have that like physical, like sexual chemistry in the beginning, I don't think you can like create it.

• 1:19:45Alex Cooper?

  I completely agree. And I think.

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

  That is so disappointing when that happens too.

• 1:19:50Alex Cooper?

  It is so sad because you are like, the worst is when if you went on a first date and you didn't kiss and you go on a second date. And you are like kind of fantasizing about it. You're like walking around your place. You're like drinking your coffee in the morning, like picturing like you're almost like creating like a movie in your head of like what it's gonna be. And then it happens and you're literally like.

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  You're like, I need to go home.

• 1:20:10Alex Cooper?

  You're like, you're like, oh God, I'm never gonna see you again. And that was not, and then when they're into it and you're not.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  That's what I was gonna say too. I sometimes feel like, do you think that like we are sometimes more picky about that than men?

• 1:20:26Alex Cooper?

  Yes, because I think that there you also then don't know their intention completely. Are they just hoping that they're gonna sleep with you while you're like, oh, I'm actually like looking for a partner? So they're like, hey, Ally, that was amazing. Let's go back to your place. And you're literally like, I hate you. Like, I literally felt nothing below the belly button. Like, we gotta go home. I think that men are less picky because men are just like dogs and they're just like, oh, that was great. Meanwhile, it's like, no, that wasn't great. Like, what about that was great, Danielle? Like, that was bad. Like, leave me alone. So, no, I, um, I think you, I think you're on the right track. I also think everyone is different, but I don't know, ladies, maybe this is like the year of second dates because then at least you're, I think then you're training yourself

• 1:21:08Alex Cooper?

  to maybe then you can just start knowing in the first date. But start pushing yourself to see if there is a shift ever on the second date. And then maybe there is, and then you're like, holy shit, maybe I need to stop counting people out. Because what I said to my friend was, she was so cute. She was like, you know me, I can be a little socially awkward in the moment. And I was like, but think about this. How many times have you told me, I wish people knew me like in settings with like all of us and our friends when I'm the most comfortable? You wish that people would give you that, so give that to the other person.

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  Wow, okay. You have convinced me.

• 1:21:42Alex Cooper?

  We're going on a second date. Get your phone out, girl. We're like, did do. I think it's, listen, there's, there's no harm in it. And what I can say is, if you are super anxious about the first date or second date, oh, you could do it as like a drinks or something that you have somewhere to go afterwards. So you always have an out. And then if you're vibing, be like, let me cancel my fucking dinner. Like, let's actually have dinner together. Let's go down the street. But you can always give yourself an out. Like, let's, I have like an hour before like a work thing I have to go to, like wanna meet for drinks. Like, it doesn't have to be this fucking three course sit down dinner where you're literally like at the appetizers and he's eating his calamari and you're like, oh my God, I literally hate you.

• 1:22:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're like, I'm stuck here for two hours.

• 1:22:23Alex Cooper?

  Like, this is a waste of my life. Like, don't do that. Grab a drink.

• 1:22:28Speaker 01

  That is just like the worst when you're, when they're just like, you just know right away you're like.

• 1:22:31Alex Cooper?

  You're gridlocked.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  You're just like, oh. But also I will say sometimes you like go on a date with someone and you are Like you are the nicest person. You are gonna be an amazing.

• 1:22:39Alex Cooper?

  You are just not it.

• 1:22:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're amazing. You're gonna make some person so happy. I just.

• 1:22:45Alex Cooper?

  Not me.

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  No, it's just not me, but it doesn't. That's what dating is in person. I've gone on so many dates where I'm like, you're just like so wonderful. I have nothing bad to say about you. But it's just like, and it's the same with men. I've been in serious relationships with too. I'm like, you're so wonderful. It just, there's, you know, when you're.

• 1:23:01Alex Cooper?

  When was the last date you went on?

• 1:23:03Speaker 01

  Um, it was.

• 1:23:07Speaker 01

  It was a few weeks ago, but I'm not sharing anything else. Not sharing anything else.

• 1:23:12Alex Cooper?

  Was it a first date?

• 1:23:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, not sharing anything else.

• 1:23:18Alex Cooper?

  I'm not sharing anything else. You're like, Alex, Alex, I'm like, did it go well?

• 1:23:24Alex Cooper?

  But I'm not sharing.

• 1:23:27Alex Cooper?

  I just keep asking if you're entering.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  But that's all I'm saying.

• 1:23:32Alex Cooper?

  Did you meet on a dating app or?

• 1:23:33Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 1:23:33Alex Cooper?

  Nope.

• 1:23:37Alex Cooper?

  Should I keep asking?

• 1:23:41Alex Cooper?

  Okay, okay, okay, okay. We're moving on. We're moving on. Um, this has been fabulous.

• 1:23:44Speaker 01

  I know, this is.

• 1:23:45Alex Cooper?

  I'm like having the best time. I'm like, I could keep going. Um, I, I love though, the, the biggest point that I love about you writing that article too, was about calling out like, I'm thirty now and like everyone's like, what are you do? Like you are young. And you are beautiful and you are successful. And I think it's important, especially for women. I understand we have our biological clock. Don't rush into something just because of a biological clock. Like, uh, what? Like what? And be miserable with a random person that you hate just because it like, we're thirty, time's up. Like, no. Um. What are you the most excited about? Like entering your thirties right now?

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  Well, I feel like I'm most excited because I, I've been told for a long time that when you hit thirty, you kind of care less. And so I'm like slowly getting there, but I think I'm just excited to. Like peel back the layers of who I am and just have more fun, focus more on my personal life. And, and also I had a friend one time tell me it was at her bachelorette party, actually. And this was years ago and she just said, you have so much to look forward to. Like you still have like that. So for anyone who's single, this actually really helped me. It's like you still have that like first date, your first kiss, like, you know, going into that like talking stage and falling in love and like, there's just so, still so much to look forward to. And if you're in a relationship or you're married, you still have so much to look forward to as

• 1:25:10Speaker 01

  well. Like there's so much different, beautiful variations and chapters of life that I'm excited to keep growing and evolving and figuring out who I am. Cause I also think it's important to give ourselves like space and permission to, if you want to outgrow a friendship, you want to try something new, you want to, whatever it is, like do what you want to do and do what makes you happy. So I'm starting to like care a little bit less, but um,

• 1:25:36Alex Cooper?

  I think that's beautiful.

• 1:25:38Speaker 01

  Can you tell I care too much?

• 1:25:39Alex Cooper?

  No, no.

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  Too much?

• 1:25:41Alex Cooper?

  You're like, I don't care, Alex.

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm like, I swear I don't, but I do.

• 1:25:44Alex Cooper?

  Like, I literally don't give a shit.

• 1:25:47Alex Cooper?

  Um, I, I actually think when you were saying that, it just made me think of something that is kind of beautiful. I, when you, when I was reading that article you wrote, it was really interesting, you know, and you mentioned it earlier, like talking about comparison, right? Of Instagram and it's like every fucking week you open your phone and it's like, someone got engaged or someone had a baby. And I look back at when I was single and I talked about this recently, like I have two different friend groups. One friend group is like all married and have babies and I'm like the one last on the totem pole. And then my other friend group is like, I'm ahead of the friend group in terms of like my relationship status or whatever the hell you want to call it.

• 1:26:31Alex Cooper?

  And I realize like we compare ourselves when we're single to the people in relationships that are getting married and all that stuff. We need to stop because what I can tell you all is this, here's a secret. I am now married and now I'm comparing myself to the moms. And what I hear from the moms is then you compare yourself in your parenting style and where your kids are at. And then you compare what your like, what is your life balance to your kids and your career. It's like the comparison literally never stops unless you stop it. And so, yes, it feels right now like this big point of like, whoa, I'm either married or I'm not. It's not just that. It's every fucking aspect of life is every fucking

• 1:27:15Alex Cooper?

  thing. Women are just, we keep comparing ourselves. Am I doing it as good? Am I doing it as good? And so I thought it would stop like, whoa, I'm, I'm about to turn 30 this summer. I just got married and I'm like, it really doesn't matter that I got married. Like, oh, no, it does. Sorry, Matt. No, it does. It does. It does. I promise. But I bet I mean, in terms of that, like, of course, it was amazing and beautiful, but I also would have been so happy if it happened at 35. You know what I mean? Like, or 40, like, the timeline, we need to be nicer to ourselves because the comparison game, the next step you get to, that's a whole new can of worms of comparing. So like, don't worry.

• 1:27:54Speaker 01

  It is, it's so interesting because for women, as you mentioned before, like, we have that biological clock. And it's also like so unfair how inaccessible egg freezing is for women and how expensive it is. And I think it's so unfair because for the women that are able to afford it, I think for so many, it gives you sort of like, a little bit more, a little bit longer timeline. Not a little bit, but probably a lot longer if you're able to afford it and you're able to even like, take off the time you need for work and everything where men don't have to worry about that. So it's very different. And I, I think it's so messed up how expensive. egg retrieval is it's it's it's so expensive and obviously people need it for various

• 1:28:37Speaker 01

  reasons but I think that adds a really complicated piece to it and I also think that there's also so much pressure I was gonna put this in the article but then I just like didn't it's like a balance of not writing too much and

• 1:28:49Alex Cooper?

  right

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  um but there's also so many people like don't want to be a mom and that's also okay and I think a lot of people feel guilty for that and if someone doesn't want to be a mom or a dad they don't have to be and I feel like people are so judgmental and I I know um you know for some of my friends that are married like they must feel like everywhere they go people are asking them when are you having kids and it's like it's just not everyone wants to but it's also so much pressure and also so many people struggle with infertility and it's just such a personal thing that people go through and um there's just like so many layers to it but I just think like I'm someone where I've always wanted to be a mom and I'm excited for that but I can't imagine

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  like how frustrating it must be for people who don't want to be a mom but maybe feel like they have to be or they feel the pressure yeah

• 1:29:38Alex Cooper?

  no I love that you're saying that Ally and I think this is like it's like the trickle down effect of like I think a huge thing I'm also taking from this and I try really hard like I never ask people in interviews like do you want kids because it's like we don't know anything behind the scenes kind of like when you said when people ask me why are you tired literally stop just stop stop asking people like I like oh my god the minute I got engaged when are you getting married when are you having kids I'm like oh my god like some of these people feel so entitled to answers that they have no business having or even asking and I feel like we need to stop asking people do you want kids or oh my god when are you getting married and like are you dating Ally it's like read the room if you have now asked Ally or one

• 1:30:22Alex Cooper?

  of your single friends constantly every time you see them imagine how annoying that is like imagine how frustrating that is like maybe wait like how what's going on in your life like how are you doing

• 1:30:32Speaker 01

  well like if I was in the like happy relationship like you would know I will tell you

• 1:30:37Alex Cooper?

  exactly

• 1:30:38Speaker 01

  like they'd be here with me you'd know you know but sometimes it's yeah I was at a group dinner and someone actually that I didn't know the other day was like like in front of everyone and they mean well but they're just like so Ally like what's the dating life like and and what like are you dating anyone now and I'm like After being asked 10 times that day, I'm like, I just, why is this always have to be the conversation? Like, why can't it just be, it's just all the time?

• 1:31:02Alex Cooper?

  Really, like, what have you been up to? Like, do you have like anything fun you're looking forward to? What have you up to this summer? Like, I think that we, yeah, I would just say daddy gang, like be more cognizant. Anytime you're asking your friends, whether they're the single friends, whether they're the married friends, whatever it is, like be mindful and read some context clues of like if your friend hasn't brought up kids to you, maybe it's because she doesn't want them, or maybe she's having a hard time with it, like being a little bit more generalized in our questioning and like letting them answer what they want to answer about their life and stop leading with like something so pointed that kind of puts them on the spot. It's like, excuse you.

• 1:31:38Speaker 01

  It's like shocking, I think for people. The reason why I also want to do the article was because it's like, how often do we hear someone be like, I just turned 30 and I'm feeling better than I have in a very long time. And I'm also like, I'm okay with being single. Like, I'd rather be single and wait until I have a good match. And I also feel like as a woman too, I don't know if you ever struggled with this with dating, but I felt like as I got older, I have this, I'm like, I really hope that guys don't perceive just because they know my age that I'm like desperate or like, you know, that like perception of like, I feel like I hope they're not thinking I'm just like in a rush because I don't have a timeline. I genuinely don't. And I always wonder that.

• 1:32:22Alex Cooper?

  I think you can, I think you can point to that by the way you speak on your dates of like, yeah, like I'm just like, I'm, I'll be honest, I'm dating and I'm kind of just like looking for people that like I like to spend time with. And like, I'm not in any rush to do anything. I'm just like looking for like a good person to like hang out with and spend time with. And like, I think the way that you speak about it can immediately disarm that concept of like, no, you're not desperate. You're actually like better than ever right now. And you're like working on yourself and no one is going to get to just come in and like be your partner. They're gonna have to be really fucking great. Um, okay, last question. What is something that you've learned about yourself recently

• 1:33:05Alex Cooper?

  that you wish you had known in your early twenties?

• 1:33:09Speaker 01

  Good one. I wish that I Trusted my gut more and just listened to that more and um and also realizing it's okay. In fact, important to be myself and I found the more I figure out who I am, the more the better relationships I have and the more fun that I have. So um yeah, I think trusting my gut.

• 1:33:32Alex Cooper?

  Ally, I cannot thank you enough for coming on. This was like one of my favorite conversations. I just feel like we hit so many different points. You are so smart and just like such a fascinating human being and I really appreciate you opening up because I just know this episode is going to touch so many women and like you really went in so many different directions that I'm like, I have no questions left. Like you killed it, you crushed it. Thank you for coming on. Like I, I'm so happy we finally met and now let's go hang out in Paris.

• 1:34:04Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh, wait, are you gonna be 30 in Paris?

• 1:34:06Alex Cooper?

  No, August.

• 1:34:07Speaker 01

  Oh, that's fine. Yeah, we're gonna like, we're gonna be like our 30. Yeah, we're gonna have, okay.

• 1:34:11Alex Cooper?

  Perfect.

• 1:34:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This was so wonderful.

• 1:34:14Alex Cooper?

  This is amazing.

• 1:34:30Alex Cooper?

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