Michael Rubin: The One Mindset Shift You Need to Set Better Goals & See Patterns Before Your Competition

Do you want to set better Goals? Do you want to see patterns before your competition? Jay sits down with the CEO of Fanatics, Michael Rubin. Fanatics is a global digital sports platform that is reimagining the fan experience across many different businesses. Michael Rubin is a noted entrepreneur, philanthropist, and social justice advocate who has built several multibillion-dollar direct-to-consumer companies. Driven by a deep passion for business and a life-long love of sports, As growth is constant and never ending, Michael shares the value in learning from those you admire, the biggest mistake many make when building a brand and the undeniable connection between financial success and loving what you do every day. Michael shares secrets to his mindset of continuous learning and discovers the role of pattern recognition in achieving business success. Michael shares his tips for finding incredible talent and the importance of routines for productivity, learning how to define your worth, turning negatives into positives, and setting billion-dollar goals. In this interview, you will learn: How to be a successful entrepreneur How to change your mindset when building a business How to overcome challenges and naysayers How to be financially independent How to spot patterns in business This episode isn't just about business—it's about family and finding what truly matters to you. It's about building empires but creating a life you love. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 01:03 Introduction 02:50 Pursue Your Passion for Entrepreneurship 05:05 Why Learn From the People You Admire 06:42 Evolution of Entrepreneurship 08:04 A Peek into the Trading Card Business 12:16 The Biggest Mistake when Building a Brand 14:45 Financial Success is Loving What You Do Everyday 16:17 You Don’t Stop Learning 17:32 The Role of Pattern Recognition in Business Success 19:01 The Quest for Incredible Talent 23:42 Routines to Help with Productivity 25:24 Can You Define Your Worth? 29:01 The Positive Impact of Turning Negative into Positive 34:01 The Billion Dollar Goal 35:23 Family Life in the Midst of Success 35:57 Finding Balance Between Career and Family 38:22 How to Prioritize What Matter the Most 42:23 Conclusion with Michael Rubin Episode Resources: Michael Rubin | Instagram Michael Rubin | Twitter Michael Rubin | TikTok Fanatics Reform Alliance See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favourite podcast. Choose a cellar or North East Regional and get there without the stress of getting there. Visit amtrak.com to plan your next trip. This episode is brought to you by Mazda. Confidence isn't something Mazda finds, it's something they practise. That's the thinking behind every Mazda. With proactive safety features designed to help keep you more aware, more connected, and more engaged with the road ahead.

• 0:44Jay Shetty?

  It's why Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand and has won more 2026 IIHS Top Safety Pick Plus Awards than any other car brand as of July 2026. Visit www.iihs.org to learn more. A lot can happen when an accident doesn't. Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services. This episode is brought to you by Orange Theory Fitness. One of the best investments you can make is in your own strength. The choices you make today can help shape how you feel for years to come. Orange Theory Fitness provides a one-hour workout to build strength, burn fat, and build muscle, with an expert coach guiding you every step of the way.

• 1:28Jay Shetty?

  Head to orangetheory.com/onpurpose to learn more and get your first class free. Orange Theory Fitness, helping people live longer, more vibrant lives. Terms and conditions apply. See webpage in studio for details.

• 1:44Jay Shetty?

  Mental health is now talked about more than ever, which is awesome. I mean, I don't have to tell you that it's a primary focus of On Purpose. But on a day-to-day basis, many people don't know where to turn or which tools can help. Over the past couple of years, I've been working with Calm to make mental wellness accessible and enjoyable, or as I like to say, fun and easy. Calm has all sorts of content to help you reduce anxiety and stress, build mindful habits, and... Improve sleep and generally feel better in your daily life. So many bite sized options from the most knowledgeable experts in the world, along with renowned meditation teachers. You can also check out my seven minute daily series to help you live more mindfully each and every day.

• 2:26Jay Shetty?

  Right now, listeners of On Purpose get forty percent off a subscription to Calm Premium at calm.com/jay. That's C A L M dot com forward slash J A Y for forty percent off. Calm your mind, change your life.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  I don't give a about my network. So many people tell me, I've got this great idea, but I don't want to hear about but like, let's go for it. Part of being an entrepreneur is to have the courage to fail. If you're afraid to fail, you ain't gonna do shit.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  The global sports company Fanatics, you heard of it? Yeah, yeah, founder and CEO.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Michael Rubin. Welcome back, sir. I've seen death in its eyes. I've almost gone bankrupt multiple times. There are so many things that I should not have succeeded at, but I have because I won't quit. If you set goals that are easy to accomplish, then you're actually saying you want to fail.

• 3:11Jay Shetty?

  Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  The bestselling author and host. The number one health and wellness podcast.

• 3:37Speaker 03

  On Purpose with Jay Shetty.

• 3:40Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now you know that my goal here and intention is to talk to people from different backgrounds, different walks of life, people who've achieved impact in their own life and are having an impact around and across the world. People who are motivated to do better, be better and give back. And today's guest is someone who's doing exactly that. Probably not as fast as he would like, I've just learned as well. I'm talking about the one and only Michael Rubin, an entrepreneur, philanthropist and social justice advocate. Michael has built several multi-billion dollar. Direct-to-consumer companies. Michael, CEO of Fanatics, a global digital sports platform

• 4:25Jay Shetty?

  that is reimagining the fan experience across many different businesses. Michael is an advocate for criminal justice reform and the co-chair of Reform Alliance, an organization that includes some of the biggest names in sports, business and culture that's dedicated to advancing criminal justice reform and eradicating antiquated probation laws that perpetuate injustice in the United States. Michael was named Sports Business Journal Executive of the Year in 2022 and has also been named to the Bleacher Report Power 50 list of most influential people in sports. Welcome to On Purpose, Michael Rubin.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  I'm happy to be here. I've watched what you've done and admire what you do and you've got such an incredible following and just huge respect for you.

• 5:08Jay Shetty?

  Well, thank you. The feeling is very mutual. It's been amazing watching you from afar and I've always been fascinated and drawn to people who've built incredible businesses and then used their platform for impact. Because growing up, I didn't see a lot of that. Growing up, I either saw people build businesses or have an impact. And so when I see people doing the same, it's exactly the values I try and live by and I love watching it. So thank you for going down that line. But let's dive straight in. I wanted to ask you, Michael, what was, you know, you're such a successful business person. What was your first ever job that you ever had in life?

• 5:39Speaker 01

  So for me, I think a lot of people know the story. I was a terrible student, you know, barely made it to high school, went to college for less than a semester. As bad as a student I was, I was honestly a worst athlete. Like I was just, I wasn't coordinated, I wasn't a good athlete. The one thing I was always good at was working. Like I loved business from the time I was a kid. So everything I remember about being young was working. So my first job was, that I can remember is probably eight years old. I probably had like five different side hustles. I mean, I was selling trading cards, you know, by the way, not to my friends, but to my friends' parents because they had the money. I was, when it would snow in Philadelphia where I grew up, I would get five kids to do the snow shoveling. I would go door to door and actually sell the snow shoveling. I was selling vegetable seeds door to door. I was making stationery on the Apple II Plus and selling it. I mean, I was just like, I was the real entrepreneur.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Like it's what I was good at, it's what I liked doing. So I had so many different jobs as an eight-year-old, but I mean, that's Like when people say, you know, how long you been at it? It's crazy. Forty three years. I've been doing this since I've been eight years old.

• 6:35Jay Shetty?

  Wow. And when you were doing that, was there any inspiration? Was it just you wanted money? What did you want to buy? What were you doing with that? Like, what, what excited you?

• 6:43Speaker 01

  I don't think for me, even at eight years old, it was ever about money or wanting to buy things. I think it was always about doing what you're good at. And for me, I know that I wasn't good. I think I had a lot of learning challenges. I mean, as a kid, like I had every, you know, person to try to hum me with all the things I sucked at, whether it was athletically or, you know, it was just like, I just, I wasn't good at sports. I wasn't good at school. But business was what I was good at. So I just always gravitate to that. I think that's a good thing. Like you should always figure out how to do things that you love. You should figure out how to do things that you're good at and kind of double down on that. So that's always been my whole life.

• 7:15Jay Shetty?

  How did you know that at eight? Because I feel like most eight year olds today, obviously playing video games. Back then they were probably watching TV. Maybe they were out riding a bike. Like, how did you know that you were good at this and?

• 7:26Speaker 01

  I think it's something for me, I was born with. Like I was born with that entrepreneur hustle. I think I came out of the womb, like just, you know, wanting to be an entrepreneur, like just loving the hustle. And you know, to me, you know, I've been at this a long time. I work harder than I ever worked today. I love it. It's an honor to do. It's fun. It's an opportunity. Like, I'm never tired. I'm never worn out. Like, I'm just always, I just want to go.

• 7:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Can it be learned? Can you teach people to hustle and grind and develop their mindset? Or is it born with as you are?

• 7:51Speaker 01

  So I think I was definitely born with it. That said, I do think, you know, for me, the way I learned is by being a sponge from people. So I'm always picking things up from different people. Like, if you just look at the diversity of people I have around me, like I'm always taking so much learnings from them to, you know, be better at what I do. And I try to give those back. So yeah, I think you can definitely learn a lot of this stuff. Just what, you know, find people you respect, find people that you admire, find people that you want to be like, and then, you know, take the good from them. And by the way, figure out what they do that you don't like and ignore that. Like I see good and bad in each person. I try to take the good and learn from the bad. And same thing with me. I've got lots of bad habits. I mean, like I'm myself.

• 8:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's all I ask for. That's all I ask for. There is no judgment here. There's no, it's, it's a safe space. I just want people to be their authentic selves. And so, so please continue to be yourself. And uh, what's, so what, I love that idea of learning from people, being a human sponge. What's the most recent or most memorable thing you think you took away from someone? A conversation, a moment, uh, something you read or heard or learned? Was there anything that kind of stuck with you?

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. I mean, um, look, I'm in L A for the week. I'm doing six to 10 meetings a day in my house. And, you know, two of the people I met with in the last two days have been through some real challenges. And just watching the challenges that they've been through, I'm like, okay, I need to be that much more careful about how I conduct myself in everything that I do. So to me, I'm always taking learnings away from people. I think if you're not like, you know, you have no chance of like, you know, getting better at what you do. I mean, it's like, life is no different than sports. You just gotta keep getting better at your sport. And so to me, I keep working at everything I do.

• 9:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What, what do you think? Obviously now, like when you started 43 years ago at eight years old, entrepreneurship wasn't as touted as this incredible.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  No, it wasn't touted. It was, it was actually weird.

• 9:34Jay Shetty?

  Right, yeah.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  To be clear, like I was a nerd, like, like I loved business, like entrepreneurialism came cool really around technology. Like I, I don't think it became cool till almost the, from my perspective, I think it was the, really the, the birth of the dot com era.

• 9:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  You know, kind of late nineties is when entrepreneurialism became cool. I think before that was kind of nerdy and weird. So I was definitely born before it all.

• 9:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And I'd say even after the financial crisis in like 2007, eight, like that recession, which is because I grew up in the era where we still aspire to be investment bankers or consultants. So when I was at college or when I was growing up, that was seen if you were into business. My goal was to go into that world because that's what I aspired for. Whereas I think the generation after me and the one after me, they were like, I'm not going to go work for someone. I want to build something of my own.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  I think that's amazing. For like, for me, I love, one of the things that I'm fortunate enough to do is really, I think in a lot of ways, you know, encourage entrepreneurialism and, you know, one of our biggest businesses, the collectibles business, which is trading cards and memorabilia, and that's all about entrepreneurs. There's so many entrepreneurs in that business. It's probably the business in a lot of ways that I, I actually relate to all three of our businesses, but it's the business that's maybe the most relatable for me because I grew up selling trading cards as an eight year old. But also it's all about entrepreneurialism.

• 10:45Jay Shetty?

  Talk to me through that business because, so I remember, so back in London, obviously where I grew up, I collected football stickers, right? Soccer stickers.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:52Jay Shetty?

  So that's what we'd have. We'd have the big, you'd have the spread with all the Premier League clubs and you'd collect the little stickers. And that was a big part of collectibles. How has that industry evolved as technology's grown? Has it stayed the same where people are still collecting cards and like top trumps and things like that?

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I'll say we got into the business about three years ago in a really significant way. And today, we own Tops, which is the, you know, kind of preeminent brand in, in, in trading cards. I'd say that, you know, until our arrival in the industry, a little less than three years ago, I said, there hadn't been, you know, tremendous amount of innovation, there hadn't been a tremendous amount of marketing. You know, we kind of looked at the business and said, wow, like this is such an incredible collector base, such an incredible fan base. Yet it hasn't changed for like decades here. And you go to a, you know, the big trading card show where there's more than a hundred thousand people that come to Chicago this past summer. It's called the National Trading Card Show. Yeah, it looks like something from twenty, thirty, forty years ago. So for us, that was just, that just meant opportunity, meant if you actually make innovative products, you actually really market these products.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  You build a better consumer experience and bring people forward in two thousand twenty-three, like what an opportunity. So for me, like I, we do that in all of our business. Like I like, like, we love finding great opportunities, big challenges and kind of being unrelenting about going after them.

• 12:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. How has that changed? How has that practically changed? Like, are people still buying cards and trading?

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Physical cards are the biggest part of business. It's in a lot of ways, very simple little art. But I can tell you, like, just as one quick example, this year, you know, our team came in and actually the CEO of our business, Mike Mayhew, said, hey, I got a great idea. Every time a player debuts for the first time, I want to put a patch on their jersey. And then as soon as they get done the game, I want to put a patch off and put it in a one-on-one trading card. So you have the card from, from the first, so think about for, for us, you know, maybe I grew up in the, in the Michael Jordan era. Had I had, you know, Michael Jordan, or yeah, if I had Michael Jordan or Kobe's first one-on-one cards. Yeah, that could be the, the most valuable keepsake that I could ever have. And so, you know, that innovation, like for us, it was really simple, like, yeah, why would you not want to put a patch on someone's jersey, stick it into a card and make this a one-on-one card? But no one did that until we created it.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  And by the way, it's already live, we came up with the idea this past December. It wasn't, it was live in, in April with, with all baseball players. It's gonna be three to four hundred baseball players debut this year, you know, with this debut patch that we put into a one-on-one card. So that's just like one of dozens of examples of innovations because you have to be aggressive. We like, we have to be great entrepreneurs, we have to push whatever we do.

• 13:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, what I love about that though, for everyone who's Thing is, I think we're stuck in this world now that believes that all innovation has to be digital or technological or virtual or some sort of, you know, AI, whereas this is like the most tangible, physical change, but it's still so valuable because it's what people want.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Look, we're three businesses there. Our first business where we started is what we call Fanatics Commerce. That's our merchandise business. We own Lids, the hat retailer. We own Mitchell Ness. We own Fanatics, which operates, you know, obviously all of the different league, NFL shop, the NBA store. And we sell, you know, more than $6 billion of mostly fan apparel and headwear. Okay, about, you know, more than 100 million units of merchandise a year. That's a very physical business. Okay, but AI is helping us to do things more effectively. In the collectibles business, AI is going to help us to be more effective. And then our third business is the online sports betting and iGaming business. So, you know, for me, we still do a lot of physical things, but there's so many things in the digital world that help us to be better.

• 14:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, but I love that collaboration and thinking about it that way because sometimes the greatest value to someone is a physical change, but you're learning that through the AI.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  I still want to wear my Kobe jersey.

• 14:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly, exactly.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  I want my Bron card.

• 14:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's the same thing. I'm still buying, I support Manchester United. That's, that's my soccer team and I'm still buying, you know, soccer jerseys every single year.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Well, we appreciate that because that's a Fanatics, that's Fanatics store.

• 14:28Jay Shetty?

  Even though I absolutely, even though we absolutely suck right now, but it's, you know.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  But that's what being sports fans about. Sometimes you're gonna have the great years and you get, you're getting those championships and other times you're gonna suck and you gotta stay with your team. You gotta feel the pain.

• 14:40Jay Shetty?

  I'm a real fan now. I grew up as a glory hunter because we just won everything and now I'm going through real fandom of 10 years.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  We're gonna test you now. We're gonna see what you're made of. Are you really committed to Man United here?

• 14:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's, that's, I'm being tested right now. I'm being tested. But we were talking about people not being, entrepreneurship not being touted when you started. When you look at it today, now it's become the cool, sexy, interesting, fascinating thing for people to want to try. It's not necessarily things people are good at, like you said you were. It's not necessarily a skill that we honor or give it the, the kudos that it deserves. What are the mistakes people are making when they think about being an entrepreneur today?

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, entrepreneurialism isn't for everybody, but if you think it's for yourself, you better go out there and try it, put your best foot forward. You know, for me, look, the biggest mistakes I see people make. In building a business are kind of a couple of common themes. One is first you have like, are you even going to take the at bat? So many people tell me, I've got this great idea, but like, I don't want to hear about but like, let's go for it. Let's see if you have an idea, you want to do something. You know, I love the story you were just telling me before we went on here that you came over here and you know, you worked one place for six months, then you're like, I want to go out and do this. You went out and did it like part of being an entrepreneur is to have the courage to fail. Like you just have to go out there and try it. And by the way, when you fail, which many times you will, you're going to learn from that failure. You're going to grow from that failure. You think the best, you talked about Kobe being your favorite.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  You know, athlete. Well, guess what? How many times did he fail and then he got better and he pushed through? And so that's what being an entrepreneur is. So from my perspective, it's really all about first and foremost, if you have something you want to do, if you believe in it, go for it. Don't worry about whether you succeed or not, go out and take the swing. And if, guess what? If you strike out or you fail, just go back again. And I know some people are going to say, oh, well, he's really successful now. So it's easy to say, but I got to tell you something. I like, I've seen death in its eyes. You know, I've almost gone bankrupt multiple times. You know, I've had epic failures and every one of those led me to be better in what I do. So that's my first thing. Second thing I'd say is you need great people around you to succeed. Like whether it's great people you're learning from, that you want to be a sponge from,

• 16:45Speaker 01

  whether it's you build a great team to do what you do. Like I know for fanatics, we have 18,000 people that get up and go to bed obsessed with, how do we improve the fan experience each day? But like I collect and work with the best people on the planet. Like if you don't work with great people, you will fail. Like you can't win a championship if you don't have great talent, but that talent also works, needs to work together. And then the last thing, and this will sound corny, but like have fun in what you do. Like I love what I do. I have the greatest, you know, job on the planet. I get to wake up, you know, work 18 hours a day, go to bed thinking about, you know, what's next? I dream about my work nearly every day, like I'm having work dreams all the time because I'm obsessed with what I'm doing. It's like, it's, it's fun. It's like, I should pinch myself at so.

• 17:22Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. One of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is the chance to step outside of our routine. Travel is a way of slowing us down and shifting our perspective. And with the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, every journey becomes even more rewarding. Earn four times the points on flights and hotels booked direct. Enjoy access to award winning airport lounges. Three times the points on dining and reserve exclusive tables. Learn more at chase.com/sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank. N A member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply.

• 18:04Speaker 04

  Your heart can tell you a lot about your health. Apple Watch Series 12 measures your heart rate every five seconds with the most accurate heart rate sensing in wearable. So your vitals app now with heart rate variability can tell you when something is off. And your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push. Hear the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12. The features described are for wellness purposes only and not for medical use. iPhone 11 or later required. Based on Apple conducted study of heart rate accuracy August 2026. Visit apple.com slash Apple Watch Series 12.

• 18:35Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. I know how important every hire is for a business. If you need to make the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed sponsored jobs helps find quality candidates when you need the most. You can reach who you need based on whatever criteria you're looking for, like skills, certifications or location. In fact, people are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, companies like yours made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast.

• 19:18Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  That's what I get to do.

• 19:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. No, I love hearing that. And I think you know what's fascinating to me as well with being an entrepreneur. You know, my story was very different to finding my way into entrepreneurship. I grew up thinking I had to have a steady job because that's how I was raised by good Indian immigrant parents who made me academically astute. And so I was a straight A student, did first class at uni. Like I was always good at that. And then I got into a job afterwards. After my own detour. And when I finally got into a job, I was just like, this doesn't feel right. Like, this doesn't feel like this is going to use my skills to the best of my ability. This doesn't feel like I'm going to propel and do well and become my best version of myself. It wasn't about money or what I thought I could win at.

• 20:08Jay Shetty?

  It was, I just don't feel this is going to complete me or make me feel like I'm winning in the way that I can.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Listen, the most important thing is enjoying what you do every day. And I'm gonna tell you something, I know a lot of people that have been really successful financially and they're miserable. You know what? They don't love what they do every day. They're not happy. Like, for me, I don't think about financial success. I think about like just loving what I'm doing now. Financial success can tell you, are you winning or losing? That's your report card. That's the scoreboard, right? Good financial results means you're winning. Bad financial results means you're not winning in the current moment. But for me, like, I just want to love what I do every day.

• 20:44Jay Shetty?

  I, I couldn't agree with you more. I want to wake up and do what I love every day, which is why I do this. Because I get to sit down with fascinating people, pick people's minds.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  And then we each learn from each other.

• 20:52Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  And by the way, I guarantee you, I'll learn, I'll leave here today having picked up some things from you and you'll leave from here.

• 20:58Jay Shetty?

  Oh, I'm definitely gonna, yeah.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  That's the way it works. That's the way, like, we should all be students of each other.

• 21:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. Who's, who's the randomest person you've learned from? I wonder, like, who's the most curious, random, intriguing person that we wouldn't expect for you to learn from? Like, not like a business mogul or a, you know, someone like that, but someone you're like, you know what? That person, I didn't expect to learn from them, but I did. Is there someone like that comes to mind?

• 21:18Speaker 01

  I could give you a thousand examples. I mean, I could tell you, when I used to be part of the ownership group of the Philadelphia Sixers, I'd walk through the arena and I would ask lots of arena workers, what's going on here today? You know, what's working, what's not working? Like, you know, you can pick up things from everybody. I could, I could walk through the street, look at what someone's wearing, say, hey, where'd you buy that? Is that a good, do you like that? Do you not like that? Like, I'm always asking questions. So, you know, for me, I, I mean, that's pretty random. If you just walk up in the street and ask somebody, you know, where'd you buy that? Why'd you buy it? Do you love that? What, so I'm always picking things up. I'm watching the way trends are changing with people. I'm, probably the most unique thing about me is the diversity of friends that I have. And I'm learning from the people around me every single day.

• 22:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think that's the only way you understand the pulse of human behavior, right? It's like asking questions, watching patterns. I think pattern watching is, is an ability, whether it's an algorithm, whether it's the stock market, whether it's, you know, crypto, whatever it is for people, watching patterns is such an unbelievable skill. Would you say that's a skill that you've honed and developed and built?

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Well, I think it's a really important skill in business because I think it's very predictive of the future. Okay, so the reality is when someone comes in and I'm interviewing a top executive for a role in one of our businesses. And they could seem great and then I'm gonna go out and I'm never gonna ask anybody for a reference ever. I've never asked somebody, hey, can you tell me who to call? Like that's the, you ask me for reference on myself, I'd call each other's people and say, hey, I gave you as a reference, make sure you say great things about me, right? So the reality is I'll interview somebody, the first thing I do is if I like them, as soon as they leave, I go out and I start calling people that I knew we had in common to recognize patterns, okay? Because to me, fifty percent is the interview and fifty percent is what I learn behind the scenes. And that's probably the more important fifty percent because someone can blow me away.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  And then, you know, you'll find out one minute, that person sucks, that person, people don't like working with them. Or you can find out that person was a little bit understated, but they're a beast, you know, they've got huge followership, they're super smart, they've got an unrelenting work ethic. So to me, pattern recognition is everything I use in everything that I do. By the way, I use pattern recognition when I go play blackjack with my friends, you know? There's three types of cards you're gonna get, cards are either gonna be, you know, you're either streaking hot, you're streaking cold, or you're kind of in between. And, you know, when you're cold, you should not do what sometimes I'll do if I'm misbehaved, which is be aggressive. When you're cold, because you got, you got a pattern going on, so you gotta recognize patterns in whatever you do.

• 23:40Jay Shetty?

  I find it fascinating how super powerful entrepreneurs hire and fire and recruit and, you know, reward and retain people. What have you found, when you're interviewing someone, I feel like you must have interviewed so many people over the years for huge positions, small positions in the beginning. What are you looking for and how were you finding out? Apart from the second part, which I love, calling up people that you have in common. What are you asking, what are you looking for and how are you making sure you find it in that very date-like format?

• 24:09Speaker 01

  So let me say, first of all, and this will, I think, shock you, I still probably spend. 10 to 20% of a 70 to 90 hour work week interviewing people. Okay, so I am a beast on finding great talent for within our companies. Cause to me, you can't win without great talent. So it is probably the thing, or one of the things I spend the most time on is the quest for incredible talent. I'm looking for first, does someone have the subject matter expertise and the intellect to be successful in what we want them to do? And then two, do they have the leadership skills?

• 24:52Speaker 01

  Cause generally I'm interviewing people that are either gonna work for me or somebody is gonna work for someone who I work with. So let's say the top 50 to 100 people within our 18,000 people. So I'm looking for people that are gonna be real leaders, um, that are gonna, you know, share the same values that we share. I'm looking for people that can be with us for a long period of time. Like I don't want people that wanna come in and be with us for three years. I want people that wanna like, I like people wanna be with us and build their careers with us for maybe their entire life. We want people that are just gonna be, you know, and also people that are gonna like, just they're gonna figure out how to win. They're gonna put it on their shoulders and they're gonna be unrelenting. Like that's my personality, like there are so many things that I should not have succeeded at, but I have because like I won't quit. Okay. And so, so I think those are some of the things that I just rambled to you that I care about.

• 25:35Jay Shetty?

  No, no, I, I love those. And I guess the thing about not quitting is really interesting, right? Because you've got this unrelenting, you can see it in the way you speak and your eyes. Like I've just spent a few moments with you, we've never met before today. And I can fully see that it is just at the core of who you are. And you probably find that you can push people and they may not be able to go as far every time. Because they may not have that same energy in them. So how have you found that balance of like seeing someone who you know has the potential? You know, they have the skills, but it's almost like they're like, Michael, I already went seven times. And you're like, yeah, dude, we're gonna go 17 because I know at 17, we're gonna get there.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think the people that are in my real inner circle, you know, I have six key executives that I work with day in and day out. The people that run my three businesses, the online sports betting and I gaming business, the commerce business, which is merchandise and the collectibles business, which is trading cards and memorabilia. These businesses and then my three corporate executives, like they have that same mentality. I wouldn't want to work with anyone that didn't have that mentality of like, you know, because they're saying the culture for the entire eighteen thousand, you know, employees at Fanatics. And so to me, people don't share our core values. You know, they don't believe in what we believe in, there's probably not going to be a right fit. They could be a great human being, a great individual, just not be right for us.

• 26:56Jay Shetty?

  Do you ever take a break? Have you ever taken a break?

• 26:59Speaker 01

  To me, I don't understand work-life balance. It's just, it's not who I am. So I'm not going to apologize for it. And I know I sound like, if people get listening to say like this guy's a little bit deranged and, but I am who I am. I know like, I know what I'm good at and I know what I like doing.

• 27:10Jay Shetty?

  I, I mean, it may shock you, but I fully relate to it. Like to me, it's, I, you know, I think people.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  I appreciate it. I'm trying to get more people to, you know, try to get more people to not look at me like I'm crazy.

• 27:21Jay Shetty?

  And I would agree with, I feel exactly the same way. Like this week, and this is my average, normal week. I'll, I have morning hikes where I'm out with people that I work with, but I love them and I enjoy their company. They're not people I have to work with, they're people I enjoy working with. So I'm having a hike meeting in the morning, which is, you know, seven thirty AM. Then I'm at work, whether I'm doing this or whatever I'm up to, whether I'm recording meditation. So sometimes I'm alone in a studio and sometimes I'm with people. And then I have meetings and then I've been having dinner meetings too, and I love it. I wouldn't have it any other way. I've had the best interactions. I'm getting to know the best people. I know their families. I know they're, they're getting to know their kids, their spouses, whatever it is. And to me, it's like, this is what I want life to be. I actually don't look at life as work and life. Like I don't have that disconnect.

• 28:05Jay Shetty?

  And I actually think that when you look at life as a disconnect, that's when you think you're taking away from the other.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  I also think if you do what you love to do.

• 28:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  It almost breaks those barriers down.

• 28:15Jay Shetty?

  Totally. Yeah, no. So I'm actually more on your side than people may think. Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm a big fan of having my daily routines and habits that make me the best version of myself. Like obviously meditation, working out, there are certain non-negotiables. Are there things in your day that you do that are your routines? There may not be those things, but things that you're like, you know, this one thing that I do per day, this makes me feel great.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  It's probably centered around work, if I'm gonna be honest with you.

• 28:39Jay Shetty?

  That's cool, yeah.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  I was always pleasantly plump until my journal came out. So now that my journals came out, I've gone from 210 to 160. I'd say working out is more important to me. You know, when you're 210, it's harder to work out. When you're 160, it's much easier to work out. So you live here in the top of Runyon. And you know, for me, you know, kind of hiking to the top of Runyon. You know, I've done that once already this week. I'm gonna do it again tomorrow. Like, I love doing it. Like, it's a blast for me. Working out is actually something that is becoming good for me because it's the one thing that lets me get a little bit of a mental break. Putting my phone down sometimes, I can be so addicted to my phone. It's just like, I just need like, sometimes at dinner, when you know, my family has dinner, just like, put my phone down for 20 minutes. That's a good thing.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  So I'd say things that have helped me of late have been, you know, getting those three to four workouts in per week because it does give me some mental clarity. I'd say putting my phone down 20 or 30 minutes a day when I'm just not gonna look at it and say, okay, like, give me a mental break. Because I think you could just become so obsessed that it's almost, it's bad for you. And then you become less effective.

• 29:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Probably the biggest routine I have, if we say like, let's keep it real. It's gonna be the people that I work close with. It's talking to them all the time. I'm always just like, peeling the layers back on what we're doing. So like, any of my, you know, top leaders I'm on the phone with, on Zooms with, meeting with in person all the time. Because that's the way we're just like, building the best business.

• 30:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. And I do believe that it's what it takes for the level of success that you've achieved. I wonder, you know, if you, if you Google your net worth, it says 11 billion, it could be more, probably is. How do you define how much you're worth?

• 30:16Speaker 01

  I don't. I'll tell you a story I probably shouldn't say. God, this is blowing somebody up. I shouldn't blow up. But like, Forbes reached out and they said, hey, we want to put you on the cover of Forbes, for the Forbes 400. I'm like, no, I don't want to be known for my net worth. I want to be known for building a great company. By the way, there's so many things with our company that we suck at, that we need to be better at. Like, I want to be like, the way I look at it is, I'm a big startup and I want to make sure that I'm always fighting to be better in everything we do. And in everything we do, I want to build what we make better for the fan. And we have so much to do to accomplish. That so I don't want to be known about money. I don't want to be known. I want to be known about making the world a better place or making my company better. Those are honestly, you know, the two things I'm maniacally focused on.

• 30:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I believe it. I believe it. I genuinely do. And and I think.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  By the way, who can like, I'm not in a competition for like,

• 31:00Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  It's irrelevant. Like, my life is not changing financially based on anything that happens going forward. You know, I'm fortunate that I I'm in a nice position today. So like, to me, the thing that gets me most exciting is winning in business because that's my sport. That's what I'm good at. And so I look at each business and I look at not all the things we do right. I look at all the things we do wrong and all the things we can be better at. And so I'm always saying, how can we improve in everything we do? Because guess what? There are a lot of things we need to be a lot better at. And that's what I'm focused on. And then, you know, upfront, you talked about kind of giving back is interesting. I never ever cared about making a difference in the world until I had an event in in two thousand seventeen that that changed my perspective.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Before that, I would just always write checks. You came and said, hey, I'm doing this. Hey, let me give you a check to shut you up as quickly as I could. Because I didn't care. I just wanted to focus on work. And then my eyes got open, which is what people say like, hey, should I be behind this? I said, do what's authentic, do what's real. And, you know, for me, that's kind of how my life is kind of, you know, evolved.

• 31:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And why was it, I believe it was Meat Mill who introduced you to criminal justice?

• 32:03Speaker 01

  Well, it wasn't. I mean, everyone knows the story at this point. You know, you know, Meat got, you know, sent to prison for two to four years for popping a wheelie on a motorcycle. He the smartest thing he did for both of us was say, hey, can you come to court with me that day? And why you see what happens when a black person goes to court? I didn't like even understand what he was saying. And then, you know, I watched him get sent to prison for two to four years for not committing a crime, for popping a wheelie on a motorcycle. Like, that was the most uncomfortable thing that's ever happened to my body because it was like, I'm used to being in control. I'm a strong business leader. I'm used to leading. And now I had a judge who sent him to prison for two to four years for not committing a crime for popping a wheelie on a motorcycle. And it was like the most out of body experience I ever had. And so once he ultimately got out of prison and we started the reform alliance,

• 32:46Speaker 01

  you know, for me, you know, I learned a really valuable lesson because a lot of people told me, don't get involved with this. Don't get involved with him. You're going to hurt your business. You're going to hurt the Sixers. And I just went with my instincts, which is like, this is my brother and like, he needs help. And by the way, Jay-Z and Desert Press from from Roc Nation stepped up in a huge way. Like, you know, it was it was kind of us collectively. But like, I've had a couple of experiences in the last. Four or five years where we've done things where people told us would be bad for business, bad for us, and we didn't care. We do what we thought was the right thing. You always get paid back in karma. Like, that is something I've learned in the last five years. Probably the biggest thing I've learned in the last five years. You know, don't worry about what people tell you is going to be the right outcome. You do what you think is right. If you do what's right, you know, it generally works out.

• 33:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, and I'm glad you repeat that story. There may be some of our audience who may or may not be aware. So, thank you for sharing that, but, and I wanted them to hear it from you. Because it is, it's so interesting when something becomes so personal, when it happens to someone that's so close to you. The issue almost becomes so much more relatable and easy to access. For you, what have been some of the most, like, I loved what you said. Like, the moment you walked in here, I was telling you how much I've appreciated the impact work you're doing. And you're like, we're not doing it fast enough. We're not, there's more to do, you know.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  But we're not.

• 33:57Jay Shetty?

  And I love that, like, that's exactly the energy you need to have. So, walk me through the wins that have been there, that have shown you that you're doing the right thing. And then walk me through what are the issues that you're still trying to solve and figure out. This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Value can be found anywhere, even in the clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer want and get more value out of them. Whether you're running out of space, moving, or simply updating your wardrobe. Listing items is a quick and simple process. And once something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you. And the best part, there are no seller fees, so you keep what you earn.

• 34:41Jay Shetty?

  It's a simple way to clear out your closet, be less wasteful, and maybe make some extra money along the way. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start selling with no seller fees, so you keep every dollar you earn. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Home should be a place that feels like a sanctuary, a space that truly reflects who you are. But it can be challenging to balance style, budget, and endless options. I was looking to create a dedicated calm space for my morning meditation and reading, but I was struggling to find pieces that felt grounding but could also stand up to daily use. Went on Wayfair and found a beautiful, solid wood accent chair and a bookshelf. Now that corner is my favorite place to anchor my day.

• 35:25Jay Shetty?

  The quality is incredible, it's built to last, and it completely shifted the energy of the room. Plus, you can shop with Wayfair Verified, where product specialists carefully vet items for quality and functionality. So you can shop with more confidence. And if putting it all together sounds like a headache, Wayfair can handle delivery, installation, and assembly. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market,

• 36:08Jay Shetty?

  who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980. That means you'll see thousands of organic products across their stores, from the produce department to the aisles. It also means you'll never see certain ingredients. They've banned artificial sweeteners and colors, high fructose corn syrup and more, so you can shop with peace of mind. Shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Well, look, the interesting thing was, when Meek got sent to prison in November 2017, just about everybody I knew said, "Do not get involved in this. This will reflect poorly on the Sixers, this will reflect poorly on fanatics, less people will buy tickets, and they're going to see you helping a criminal." And so, Deizere Perez from Roc Nation, myself, you know, we spent a lot of the next six months, you know, working every day to get him out of prison. And once we got him out of prison, you know, Meek said to me, and I said to Meek, like, "Look, this is destiny. I mean, you got sent to prison because you were the one anointed to help fix the system." And I would, if you would have asked me before November 12th, 2017, when he got sent to prison,

• 37:18Speaker 01

  if you would have said to me, "What do I care about from a charity perspective?" It was writing checks to get people out of my office as quickly as possible. I did not care about any issues. But what Meek used to always say to me, "Michael, this is a normal day for Black America." And so, you know, that he'd been sent to prison for a technical probation violation, it was easy for us to say, "We have to change the probation and parole system." That's what we set out to do. The interesting thing was, when we finally decided to do this, which was, I guess... Finally, when we did it immediately, I was trying to figure out how to come up with a goal because to me, you have to come up with big, bold goals. And this, this speaks to entrepreneurialism and not taking a kind of charitable approach to things. I asked a friend of mine, who I don't want to name, but someone I have huge respect for. I said, you know, how many people should we try to get out of probation and parole?

• 38:03Speaker 01

  They said, well, how many people in the system? I said, four and a half million. They said, well, go with 10,000. That's a really safe number. I said, 10,000? Let's go for a million. So we're in this less than five years. We've passed 17 bills in 11 states and created a pathway for 700,000 people to get off of probation and parole who shouldn't be on it. And by the way, there were four and a half million people on probation parole when we started. There's 3.8 million people today. What's proven? This is really important to understand. If you keep someone on probation or parole too long, you entrap them in the criminal justice system. And then what you do is you actually create a less safe outcome for neighborhoods and for environments versus if people serve their time, have the appropriate amount of rehabilitation, you know, they're on probation parole for the right amount of time, then they're going

• 38:48Speaker 01

  to go out, they're going to make, you know, a positive impact in the world. So Meek had been on probation between the time served and time left, 18 years. Now in California, where we're doing this today, the governor signed in one of the first bills that we did with Gavin Newsom, which was amazing, is a one-year cap on misdemeanor and a two-year cap on felonies. And that was like breakthrough legislation that we worked on together, you know, with many people to bring together to make that happen in the state of California, which was one of the best things we've done at the reform line. So my point is like,

• 39:17Jay Shetty?

  That's huge.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  We turned this negative into a positive. We then came up with a really bold goal that people thought we were nuts. When I told people a million people, like everyone looked at me like I have seven heads, but I'm like, what's the worst that happens? Like, so we get 300,000 people, 400,000 people, I'll still think we won. I don't care. You want to say we failed because we didn't get the million? And by the way, now we're going to, we're going to surpass the million, I think.

• 39:36Jay Shetty?

  Wow, that's incredible. And you're so right. Most of us, when we set a bold goal, whether it's to make an impact or whether it's in business, we're actually just worrying about what everyone will think if we don't hit that goal.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  So I'm going to give you a great example. So today at Fanatics, you know, we've built a pretty big business.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  In our commerce business, which is merchandise, that's where I started. That's where a lot of people know us from. By the way, we still have so much to do to be better, so many things to improve the consumer experience, to innovate more product. We're a leader in that business. The collectibles business, we're a real leader today. In the online sports betting, iGaming business, we're just starting, okay? We're gonna be, Fnatic Sportsbook just launched earlier this year, will be basically in just about every legal state by the end of this year, under the Fnatic's brand with one wallet. I woke up and our guys, we talk about being number three, like, you know, hey, FanDuel's number one, DraftKings number two, we're number three. And, you know, sorry, we aspire to be number three. Today, we're like number eight, we're just starting. And I woke up about three weeks ago and I called our CEO, Matt King, who's amazing. I said, Matt, like, we got, our goal needs to be number one.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  By the way, maybe we'll accomplish it, maybe we won't, maybe we won't be successful at all, like, the jury's out, we're investing a billion and a half dollars to try to be the top player, okay? But like, I don't wanna play for number three, number three's a loser. I wanna play for number one. And so many people are gonna say to me, so many people listen to this, will be like, wait, you wanna be number one to FanDuel and DraftKings and online sports betting and iGaming? I'm declaring right now, it's the first time I've publicly said this, I wanna be number one. I have no idea whether I have any chance of that accomplishing, but I can tell you what, I'm not waking up to try to be number three, that's a loser.

• 41:08Jay Shetty?

  And that's what's got you here? So you feel convinced that that's what it was? What was the, do you remember the first big goal you ever set?

• 41:14Speaker 01

  I do.

• 41:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  In 2009, I made a goal, I said to all of our team, I said that I wanna build, we were $250 million in revenue, 2010. I said, one day, we could be a billion dollars in revenue. That division's $6 billion today, okay? I said, one day, we could be a billion dollars, okay? Then, four years later, we said, one day, we could be $5 billion, okay? And we're only just trying to come up with goals for just like, to try to measure, you know, success or failure, but I love coming up with bold goals and I don't care whether I... Accomplish them or fail, I care about coming up with bold goals to work against and then making huge progress against them, whether I accomplish them or not.

• 41:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, the point is you're more likely to challenge yourself enough to come up with better strategies, more products, better customer service. Like you're actually just going to improve drastically towards that level.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  If you set goals that are easy to accomplish, then you're actually saying you want to fail to start with. If you come up with bold goals, and by it's easier, look, I know what people are going to say, I'm an owner. It's easier to say that as an owner. Okay. And maybe sometimes you just need to set goals up that you say to yourself because you don't want to tell your boss that goes, okay, or you say, here's the budgeting goal I'm giving you, but now let me tell you the real goal that I have. Okay. And so I like rallying people against big, audacious, you know, harder to achieve goals because I think you're just going to accomplish more.

• 42:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. How does, how does this energy convert over to Michael's love life? Like, how does this kind of, how does, how does Michael in love change from Michael in business?

• 42:41Speaker 01

  I mean, you'd have to ask Camille that. I think what Camille would say, she's incredibly supportive of what I do. She knows what I love doing. You know, she's the most incredible mother on the planet. We have, so I have a 17 year old daughter, then I have a three year old and one year old with Camille. You know, she puts as much energies I put into work, she puts into being a mom. And I think that's what makes us great together. Would I say that, you know, I'm always the most available person? No. Does she want to, you know, kill me multiple times a week? Probably yes. But she also knows this, what makes me mean, what I love to do. And, you know, she loves being the greatest mom in the world. We have a great relationship, but you know, would you call my personal life or our personal life perfect? Definitely not because I work like an animal.

• 43:17Jay Shetty?

  No, of course not. Of course not. No, no one has the perfect personal or professional life. But did you, the, the reason why I ask is, you know, it's really interesting. I, I always feel like, you know, so much can be solved at the point of connection. What I mean by that is, I, you know, my wife's a busy person, I'm a busy person, but I've, you know, I was saying to some of my team the other day, I'm really grateful that my wife has never said to me in the last 10 years that we've been together, you don't spend enough time with me. It's because she knows who I am. She understands how I work. She knows I make time. I am present when I'm there, but she gets me. Like she, she really gets me and she got me when we got together. Yes, I was very not successful when we met, but she gets me and she's seen that energy grow. And so she loves the time. And by the way,

• 44:01Jay Shetty?

  I don't say the same to her either. She never hears from me, like you don't spend enough time with me or you're not around. If she's busy and she has to move. Did you know that when you met Camille? How did you set that up? How did that become real? How did she get to know you that well? Because I feel like for a lot of people, the way you work, the way I work, the way certain people work, it would be unbearable and it would be a deal breaker. But then it's really hard to also have an amazing life and build everything you want to build, right? So how did you? I'm just intrigued as to how you had that conversation early days.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not sure if we had the conversation and it kind of just grew into what it is. I think the same thing for Camille or my older daughter Kylie. They would both say they wish that I were more available, more present, but they also respect and learn from my work ethic and what I do. And I think, you know, it kind of works itself out in the end. But, you know, different than you. I do hear from both Camille and Kylie. You don't have enough time for me. You're not available enough. And sometimes that's a really good pride. Like, okay, you know, put your phone down and turn the ringer off for a half an hour. You know, you don't always need to grab every call. And you know what? What my older daughter would always say to me, Kylie is like, Dad, it's always somebody important. I'm your oldest daughter and Camille would say to me,

• 45:14Speaker 01

  you know, it's me, like, just let it go for a little bit. So they actually helped me. Whatever little balance I have, I think I get from Camille and Kylie.

• 45:20Jay Shetty?

  I loved what you said, like, you know, sometimes they say I need more time, but they also respect me. How do you reconcile that kind of dad guilt that could come with that? Or, and a lot of, I'm not a father yet, but a lot of my friends who are, they'll say it's so painful watching your little girl. My friends who have little girls will say, it's so painful watching your little girl say, Daddy, just stay at home with me today, right? Like, how are you? How do you reconcile? Like, this is good for them to see me work hard and I know when to like, put my phone down. But how do you, how do you make sense with that?

• 45:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, the good thing is my three year old and one year old have grown up with me like this. So, and so did Kylie, by the way. So they've all seen that work ethic. Look, Kylie, as everyone knows, my 17 year old is with me, you know, all the time. She travels with me all the time. She's actually on a plane right now. She's about to land here in a few hours. So, you know, she's with me a lot. She's got a great, you know, Kylie and Camille have a great relationship. They may have a support group, you know, together for the two of them against me. Every family's different. Every person's different. Everyone needs to do what works for them. And I think I do what works for me and they do what works for them. And I think they appreciate it. I also know to be there when it really matters. And so for me, Kylie went through an experience earlier this year and she called me and it had to do with Kyle. She's like cursing me out. She's like, like, I need you to help me figure this out right now.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  And it's about like, get you good, because Kylie's much smarter than me, but she's not like, you know, she goes to the toughest school in Philadelphia. And she like, she wanted like some help with certain things and like, I had to call around and figure out how to do that and learn and put a little layers back. And ultimately figure out together. It's like, when it really matters, like, I'm always there and I'm good at figuring out what matters and what doesn't. And so I think that could be a superpower I have, which is how to prioritize. I am good at figuring out when am I really needed? When do I need to like, you know, lock in and focus? It could be lock in and focus on a really important business deal, or it could be lock in and focus on a really important moment for Camille or for Kylie.

• 47:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What, what, what your daughters do for you, my sister does for me. She'll always be like, stop being Jay Shetty, just be my brother. Like, you know, it's like that feeling of like, stop giving me that advice. Just be my brother and like.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I get, I get that from both of them all the time. My three-year-old, Romy, will I'm sure be giving me that's like within a year or two.

• 47:21Jay Shetty?

  And it's the best feeling, right? It's such, it's such a beautiful feeling because you know, someone loves you and wants you to just be there for them.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  It's getting those moments which you can really appreciate. So, you know, I try, try to get them when I can.

• 47:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And Michael, that's what I'm trying to do on this podcast here, you know, I don't have a, I don't think there is an ideal way to live. I don't think there is a perfect way to approach your problems. I think that what I like to do is I like to introduce people, this is kind of my whole hypothesis in life. If I can introduce people to as many diverse people as possible, that have all in their own way, found purpose, impact and success. Then people actually have a chance of saying, I like what they're saying. I'm going to run with that. Or actually, you know what? I never thought about it like that because I find when I was growing up, we were all exposed to the same set of people and the same set of ideas, and it was so hard to break that. And it was only for me, obviously, which is my personal journey.

• 48:13Jay Shetty?

  When I met a monk at 18, I didn't know what monks were. I didn't care what monks were. I had no interest in anything spiritual. If I'd never met a monk, I would never have gone down the path of life I did. And so I'm always asking people, who's your monk? And for some people, their monk will be you. And what I mean by that is they're going to get introduced to you and go, yeah, that's, that's how I want. I live my life that that resonates with me. Does that make sense?

• 48:34Speaker 01

  It makes complete sense. I'm a huge believer in it and I have, look, if you'd say, what's the most unique thing about me? It's probably the diversification of the people around me. And I think I built that because it's right for me because I'm learning from all these people around me.

• 48:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  And so I've got this person, actually, it's a person who owns a local hobby shop. And he keeps sending me these really long text messages. And I actually keep meaning to send him back a voice note to say, hey, man, I actually appreciate your input, but I don't, I barely read. Like, I'm not that literate. Like, you're laughing. I'm dead serious. Like, I haven't read a book since ninth grade. The last book I read was in ninth grade, I read the swoosh, the story about the unauthorized story about Phil Knight. It's the last time I read a book. Okay, so I'm not a good reader. I'm pretty dyslexic. Okay. So like, the way I learn is by like, quick conversations. You know, you want me to read something, send me three lines and I'm actually gonna read it. You send me three paragraphs, I'm already, I'm tuned out before I start. So it's like, that's why I'm saying we all got to learn from each other, what works for each other, and that's, you know, what makes me me.

• 49:32Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. Michael, you've been amazing. We end every episode with a final five. You'll like this. Each question has to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. So it goes aligned with what you just said. So, Michael Rubin, these are your final five. Question one is, what is the best entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard or received?

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Don't be afraid to fail.

• 49:51Jay Shetty?

  Because?

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Because if you're afraid to fail, you're never gonna take the shot. Like, how do you want to be an entrepreneur? You're sitting there and you're trying to figure out, like, should I do this or not? Like, you gotta go for it.

• 50:01Jay Shetty?

  Second question, what is the worst entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard or received?

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Do it for the money.

• 50:07Jay Shetty?

  All right, question number three. What's something you're currently trying to learn, maybe in business or in life, something you're working on?

• 50:14Speaker 01

  How to do what's best for the consumer in everything that we do. Like, just complete consumer focus. I didn't grow up as a complete consumer person, so I think there's things, if I look at parts of Fanatics where we're not good enough, we haven't been good enough, I'd say it's an obsession with the consumer.

• 50:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's what I always loved about, I still love it today. Like, when I grew up, I remember the first time my parents took me to Disney World. And I was just like, everything about this place is like perfectly organized for me to have the best time of my life.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:41Jay Shetty?

  And it's it's insane how much detail you can put into someone's experience.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think we we got our business model right. Everything I do has to be about the consumer. To win in a consumer business, it has to be about consumer first in everything you do. That's something that I've that I'm really, it's the biggest thing I'm focused on right now.

• 50:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. That's beautiful. All right, question number four. How would you define your current purpose with your impact work?

• 51:08Speaker 01

  Real change, like to make real change, not like, like so many people who make impact work, they write. First of all, writing a check is easy. Okay, if you have money, writing a check is easy. Like, don't think, because you give money away, that you you're making a difference. Like, go do the work, okay? But making real change, like, measure the results, treat it like a business, not like, you know, a charity. Like, we don't want to run the Reform Alliance like a charity. We run around like a business, we want business results.

• 51:30Jay Shetty?

  Beautiful. Uh, fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

• 51:39Speaker 01

  Couldn't be president after sixty five. I want the President of the United States to be an animal from a work ethic perspective. I want them to be on their A game. I want to make sure that they're maniacal about the country the way I'm maniacal about my business. One law to go in place, Max, you can't be elected to become president after sixty five years old.

• 51:55Jay Shetty?

  Michael Rubin, everyone, if you've been listening, watching, make sure that you cut the clips for TikTok and Instagram that related to you, insights that you loved, share them. I love knowing what are the lessons you're taking away, what are you practicing? What are you implementing and putting into your life? I think everyone's just got the best pep talk that they need for right now in their life. This is going to get you to those big goals. Listen to this episode, share it with your friends, share it with your family. I'm sure someone just needs a train to come run through their mind and break through all of the barriers that they've set up. I think Michael's that train. Uh, Michael, thank you so much.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  Or by the way, disagree with us.

• 52:27Jay Shetty?

  Or disagree with us.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Tom, you don't agree. By the way, I love when you disagree with me too.

• 52:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, totally, of course. If you disagree with us, you can tell us too. You do that anyway. I don't need to ask for that.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me, it was a blast.

• 52:36Jay Shetty?

  Thank you, Michael, such a blast. I appreciate you, man. And thank you for being so... What I appreciate about you is your clarity, your commitment to that clarity, and that you're still open and available to learn. I think that curiosity, that's what I see in you. It's like, complete clarity, complete commitment to who you are, and then still being curious. That's a deadly combination, so thank you.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Thank you, well said, and I'm gonna try to preach it and do it every day.

• 53:00Jay Shetty?

  Thank you, man, thank you. If you loved this episode, you will love my interview with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive to find your purpose.

• 53:10Speaker 03

  Our children have become less imaginative about how to problem solve, and parents and coaches have become more directive in trying to tell them how to behave versus teaching them how to behave.

• 53:20Jay Shetty?

  I couldn't be more excited to share something truly special with all you tea lovers out there. And even if you don't love tea, if you love refreshing, rejuvenating, refueling sodas that are good for you, listen to this. Radee and I poured our hearts into creating Juni Sparkling Tea with adaptogens for you, because we believe in nurturing your body, and with every sip, you'll experience calmness of mind, a refreshing vitality, and a burst of brightness to your day. Juni is infused with adaptogens that are amazing natural substances that act like superheroes for your body to help you adapt to stress and find balance in your busy life. Our Super 5 blend of these powerful ingredients include green tea,

• 54:04Jay Shetty?

  ashwagandha, acerola cherry, and lion's mane mushroom, and these may help boost your metabolism, give you a natural kick of caffeine, combat stress, pack your body with antioxidants, and stimulate brain function. Even better, Juni has zero sugar and only five calories per can. We believe in nurturing and energizing your body while enjoying a truly delicious and refreshing drink. So visit drinkjuni.com today to elevate your wellness journey and use code ONPURPOSE to receive 15% off your first order. That's drinkjuni.com, and make sure you use the code ONPURPOSE.

• 54:47Speaker 05

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, theHouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 55:16Speaker 06

  Mr. President? My company for me of the explosion on our rig.

• 55:20Speaker 05

  On October 2nd.

• 55:21Speaker 06

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 55:25Speaker 05

  Tom Cruise is.

• 55:27Speaker 06

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up.

• 55:30Speaker 05

  From the director of Birdman and The Ravenette.

• 55:33Speaker 07

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what.

• 55:37Speaker 05

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 55:40Speaker 07

  I'm not the first then.

• 55:41Speaker 05

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a middle without parent.

• 55:46Speaker 07

  Espolone Tequila. Balanced, delicious. 100% agave, 0% ego. Just add ice, lime, and your mouth. For a real margarita, ride the rooster.

• 55:57Speaker 06

  Espolone Tequila, 40% alcohol by volume, 80% proof. Copyright 2026, Campali America, New York, New York. Drink responsibly.