The Real Reason It’s Hard to Make Big Choices

Last week, I learned a really cool trick to help you go with your gut. I guarantee you’ve never heard gut decisions explained this way before. Because I stumbled upon it in a very random way—while touring colleges with our son Oakley! We hit 5 schools in 4 days, and over the course of that time, it hit me. Holy smokes, that's the perfect hack for making big decisions. You can use it anytime you feel torn, uncertain, or scared about how people might feel. What you’re about to learn is so helpful and memorable, you’ll turn to it over and over again. This is one of my favorite kinds of episodes, because I’m going to put you right at the scene—the moment I had the epiphany. I’ll give you all the hilarious details, and there’s even a part of the story where, I am embarrassed to say, I acted pretty cringe-worthy. And that’s not all; as I was taping this episode, two friends chimed in with stories of their own. So I asked them to jump on the mic and share them with you. Two stories about a moment in their lives that’s so relatable—when they ALMOST didn’t go with their gut and looking back, they’re thankful they did. Because going with your gut always changes the trajectory of your life. It just does. That’s why I don’t like the term "trust" your gut. It’s not about trust. You KNOW your gut is right. You’re just scared to go with it. So join me, Oakley, and two of my friends. I’m taking you on an entertaining and profound tour today. Xo Mel In this episode, you’ll learn: 3:30: The moment of my junior year in high school that changed my future. 7:00: I am not proud of this mother moment when I lost it. 11:00: The question Oakley asked is what we all do when we give up our power. 14:15: Here’s what a hard no “feels” like for Oakley. 15:45: Do you feel a “yes” in your body like this too? 17:00: What our brilliant tour guide did when he separated parents from students. 20:30: When it comes to big decisions, step away and go on your own tour. 22:00: Here’s what a “no” and a “yes” usually feels like in your body. 24:00: You’re going to love Amy’s “next big thing” story and how she just knew. 31:00: We all have an opportunity in our lives to use this powerful tool. 33:00: And if it doesn’t work out the way you thought it would? Listen to this. 33:45: Do you have the courage to do this? 36:30: So what do you do when you hear the NO louder than the YES? 40:30: Jessie literally followed her heart and became her own “tour guide.” 42:30: Stop staying you don't “trust your gut” and start saying this instead. 43:00: Take time to do this EVERY day, but especially when you have a big decision. Disclaimer

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mel Robbins?

  This episode is brought to you by SoFi, the everything app for smarter money. Let me ask you something. Is your money working for you? Or is it just sitting there? A lot of us work hard, get paid, and then leave our paycheck in checking. That's an easy habit to change. With SoFi Checking and Savings, you can earn up to 3.8% savings APY for up to six months with no account fees and a cash bonus of up to $400 when you sign up with eligible direct deposit. Terms apply. It takes just minutes to open an account from your phone, and you can organize your savings into vaults for the goals you're working toward. Go to sofi.com/mel to get started. SoFi, get your money right. SoFi Checking and Savings is offered

• 0:45Mel Robbins?

  through SoFi Bank, N.A., member FDIC. To me, self-expression is all about showing the world what's on the inside. That's why I want you to discover Pandora Talsman, a new collection designed to help you express every side of who you are. Featuring meaningful zodiac symbols and personalized jewelry pieces, each design tells a story that's uniquely yours. Pandora Talsman, a new language of self-expression, because every version of you deserves to be seen. Shop new styles in store or online at pandora.net. This podcast is brought to you by Expedia. If you haven't booked your next trip yet, now is the time. Whether you're going to fly across the country or maybe you just want to explore

• 1:29Mel Robbins?

  a cool beach town this summer, Expedia makes it easy. Flights, hotels, vacation rentals, cars, activities, everything you need in one place. That means no jumping between sites, no hassle. And when you bundle, you can save up to 30% with everything you need in one app. Sign in to save, savings vary. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

• 1:58Mel Robbins?

  I have been looking forward to talking to you all week long because I just got done with spring break. It was such a memorable spring break. I just want you to close your eyes for a second. Picture the absolute spring break perfection. Maybe you imagine beautiful sandy beaches, tropical waters, a mai tai in your hand. You're just laying there with a good book like a beached whale, sunning yourself with not a care in the world. It's quiet, nothing to do, nowhere to go. Wouldn't it be amazing? That is not what happened for me over spring break. Nope, not at all. We piled into my

• 2:43Mel Robbins?

  husband's pickup truck and we did college tours. It was fun, but I did not get tanned and I was not on my best behavior. I will explain why in a minute. But I did learn some really incredible things about trusting your gut and about the outside forces and influences that override what you know is true for you. We all know we need to trust our gut. That's like, that's duh. The thing is how. So today, you and I are talking about gut decisions, how to make them, why we need to make them, and we're going to do that in a couple of ways. First of all, you're going on college tours with me. If you really

• 3:27Mel Robbins?

  think about college tours, or even if you didn't go to college, but you were weighing, "Am I going to go into the military?" It's a moment in your life where you have a big decision to make and you're weighing options. And it's also this moment where everybody around you has an opinion. I mean, everybody. I am almost embarrassed to tell you how I behaved on one of the tours, but I'm going to do it anyway. I am going to put you right at the scene. That's right. You're going to hear all the details, the hilarious stories, and the cringe-worthy things that I did. Capital C cringe-worthy. Then I'm going to grab Oakley, and I want him to give you his side of the story because he's got a really

• 4:08Mel Robbins?

  interesting take about making a gut decision and tuning out everybody else. And you know, everybody has a story. I am sure you have a story about a time in your life where you had to shut out everybody else, every annoying voice, every cringe-worthy voice. And you had to make a courageous decision. And in fact, my friends Jessie and Amy, they have two stories that they're gonna tell at the end that I know you're gonna relate to. So on the topic of gut decisions, I'll go first. I remember when I was touring colleges back in the 1800s. No, it was 1985, the spring of my junior year.

• 4:52Mel Robbins?

  And we finally get to Hanover, New Hampshire, Dartmouth College. And I knew jack shit about this school. I step out onto the town green, and there were students everywhere. They were playing frisbee, there were dogs running around. And I said, "This is college." I remember going back home after that spring break trip with my parents and going into math class. And Mr. Beaver, my math teacher, asked me, "What do you think?" And I say, "Oh, I'm gonna apply early decision to Dartmouth." And he looks me square in the eye and he says, "That's a very hard school to get into.

• 5:35Mel Robbins?

  Are you sure?" And I said, "Yeah, I'm sure." And he said, "You better not get your hopes up." And he walked away from me. That's all that Mel Robbins needs. "Oh yeah? Fuck off. Watch me." And I ended up applying ED, and I got in. But it was that one person's voice, "Oh, it's really hard." That really influenced me. And if I hadn't been such a son of a bitch, it might have made me go, "Oh, he's right? Who do I think I am?" And so that brings me to present day. So, present day, we go on these college tours with Oak. And, you know, when our daughters looked at universities,

• 6:20Mel Robbins?

  I just wanted them to go somewhere that they were gonna be happy. I wanted them to fully own the process. And so, I went through two college tour processes, just having a ball. Like, "Oh, my God, this is so cool." "Okay, oh, you like this?" "Oh, you don't like that?" Like, learning about my kids. Fast forward to last week. I'm realizing, as I analyze my own participation in his college process, I'm kind of a freak. He's very clear. "I do not want to be in a city." And yet, I'm still like, "You want to look at BU?" "Mom, that's in a city." "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right." "You want to look at Syracuse?" "Mom, it's in a city." "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's..." "What about Michigan?" "Mom, it's not in New England." You know, maybe you should look at Colorado schools. "Mom, I'd like to stay in New England. I like the fall seasons."

• 7:05Mel Robbins?

  "Well, what about Elon?" "Mom, that's in the South." I can't help myself, you guys. I don't know what is wrong with me. And I think it's important to share this with you, to confess to you what I did when we got to my alma mater. Because I'm kind of embarrassed about it, honestly. Because I never thought I was that parent. I always said very vocally to our kids, "Look, I got to go to the school that I wanted to go to. Your dad got to go to the school he wanted to go to, which was UVM. He frickin' loved it. I frickin' love Dartmouth. We already had our college experience. You have to choose where you want to be. This is your experience." Holy shit. When Oakley said, "Mom, I think I'd like to look at Dartmouth,"

• 7:47Mel Robbins?

  I became a sociopath. Honest to God. I don't know what got into me. And so, I'm like, trying to be like, not like, "Oh, my God, this is incredible." I'm like, "Oh, okay. Uh, that sounds like a good idea." Fuck, yes. So, we pull up on the campus, and it looked like the exact same kind of day as when my parents and I pulled up in 1985.

• 8:15Mel Robbins?

  Bluebird sky, kids all over the green, frisbees, dogs. And Oakley steps out and he starts looking around and I'm thinking, I could see him here. Now I'm fast forwarding, right? I'm going, oh yeah, I could see dropping him off. I could see him walking across that green. I'm starting to get invested. I'm starting to think, oh yeah, this is a good pick for us. This would be really cool for us. Something came over me. It's like I became a psycho alum possessed with this alma mater hysteria. And I'm thinking, oh my God, if he goes here and he has an incredible experience, then I'm going to get to relive it in a whole new way and I will redeem myself and I will get

• 8:59Mel Robbins?

  to love this school even more and I'll get to go to his reunions because I never went to my reunion. And I start to get completely enraptured in the story and I can come up for the games and oh yeah, and then there's Winter Carnival and oh my God, Summer Session. I forgot about Summer Session. And I start to get this tornado of enthusiasm. And I loved as we're walking down the stairs and, and the stairs are made of marble and you can feel like the dip in the stairs because the buildings are so old. And Oakley's, oh, these stairs are cool. I'm like, that's because these stairs are 200 years old, Oakley. They're the same stairs as when I was there. So we get out on the green and they now separate us out.

• 9:40Mel Robbins?

  And there's four tour guides and the one tour guide on the right is super cool and he's wearing flip flops and shorts because of course, all the Dartmouth kids wear flip flops and shorts in April because you know, it's New Hampshire in the mid winter mud season. And I'm like, Oakley, we gotta go with Nico. So now I'm even pushing him to pick the person because I'm thinking if he gets that tour guide, because the kid plays ultimate, Oakley plays ultimate. He's like a really kind of cool kid. Oakley's into theater. Okay, we're going to get this kid. So I'm like inching Oakley. The tour starts and I am that parent. I'm pushing us toward the front. You gotta hear him. You gotta get up close, get up close. He's like, Mom, Jesus. I can't help myself, you guys. He's talking about the credits and they have a wellness credit.

• 10:24Mel Robbins?

  And I'm like, do they still require you to pass a swim test to graduate? And then the college tour went right past my freshman dorm window.

• 10:38Mel Robbins?

  I had a flashback to the last day of freshman year, when completely unorganized, undiagnosed, anxiety-ridden ADHD Mel had not planned on the fact that in order to get home to Michigan, she was gonna have to board a flight later that day. So I finish exams, I walk into my dorm room, and I have a complete fucking panic attack because I don't know what to do with my shit. So you know what I did? I popped the screen off the window, and I started putting stuff out the window. And then I put a bunch of pieces of paper on it that said "free", and I left. That's what I did. From the dorm fridge that we had bought,

• 11:24Mel Robbins?

  to lamps, to the rug, to odds and end, right there on the lawn. At one point on the tour,

• 11:34Mel Robbins?

  as I was hanging back, Chris puts his hands on my shoulder, and just ever so gently, pulls me back towards him.

• 11:44Mel Robbins?

  "Mel, let's let Oakley go on the tour." "Oh, you're right, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm just so excited, I'm so excited." But I pulled myself together because I don't want to be pressuring my kid. I don't want to be that annoying alum or mom on the tour who won't shut up. I know I need to give him the space to just have his own experience. So we just started hanging back, and Chris and I distanced ourselves further and further away from the group, just to give Oak some space. And I imagined that I put imaginary duct tape on my mouth, just so, even when I was tempted, that I didn't say anything. And for the rest of the tour,

• 12:29Mel Robbins?

  I was back to my old self. I was good. And then a funny thing happened. The tour was over, the group started to disperse, and Oakley turns around, and the first thing he says is, "So what did you think?"

• 12:46Mel Robbins?

  And I said to him, "It doesn't matter what we think. It matters what you think." And I'm telling you this because that moment right there, that moment when we were standing there with Oakley and he turned around and instead of telling us what he thought, he asked us for our opinion, "What do you think?" That's what we all do. We know deep inside how we feel, and yet, instead of just leaning into it, we turn around and we're like, "Well, what do you think?" And I point this out because there's some decision that you have to make.

• 13:29Mel Robbins?

  And you've got somebody annoying, like I was annoying at the beginning part of the tour, going, "Oh, you'll be here and, oh, you should do this and you should do that and you should do the other thing and you should break up with this person, but you should go with that person, but maybe you should..." Or you don't. We have this reflexive nature, don't we? Where instead of tuning in and going, "I could see myself here," or "This relationship is over," or "I don't want to do this job anymore," or "Could I see myself here?" Or "What do I want to do next?" We turn around and we go, "What do you think?" And that's where we lose our power. Because it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks, because you're the one that's going to have to live with the decision. And so, over the course of the week, we toured a bunch more colleges, and I noticed that

• 14:12Mel Robbins?

  Oakley was becoming faster and faster at getting to either a clear "yep" or a clear "no." It was like, within minutes, he was just, boom, crossing a college, "Off the list, off the list, off the list, don't need to go on the tour, let's not waste our time." It was incredible to see how quickly he was just tapping into his instincts, he was rolling with what he felt. And so, I wanted you to hear not only his side of the college tour thing, but I also wanted you to hear his take on how he was getting to a yes or a no and making those gut decisions. And we're going to do that after a quick word from our sponsors. Stay with us.

• 14:56Mel Robbins?

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• 15:39Mel Robbins?

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• 16:21Mel Robbins?

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• 17:05Mel Robbins?

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• 17:12Speaker 01

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• 17:18Mel Robbins?

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• 17:25Mel Robbins?

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• 17:32Mel Robbins?

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• 17:57Mel Robbins?

  This podcast is brought to you by Expedia. If you haven't booked your next trip yet, now is the time. Whether you're going to fly across the country or maybe you just want to explore a cool beach town this summer, Expedia makes it easy. Flights, hotels, vacation rentals, cars, activities, everything you need in one place. That means no jumping between sites, no hassle. And when you bundle, you can save up to 30% with everything you need in one app. Sign in to save. Savings vary. Expedia, the one place you go to go places.

• 18:32Mel Robbins?

  Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins, and today you and I are talking about gut decisions and how important it is to tune out the other voices around you so that you can feel what's right for you. I promised that I would grab Oakley and bring him up here so he could share with you his version of our college tours. And I also want to ask him a few questions about how he was able to just get so quickly to a yes or a no about these colleges we were visiting. And here he is. What's up, Oak?

• 19:03Speaker 02

  What's up, guys?

• 19:05Mel Robbins?

  What's up? Well, what's up, Oak, is I wanted to talk about college tours.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:14Mel Robbins?

  It was actually great. I loved spending the time with you and I loved watching you go through the decision-making process. And we went to the first school. Remember that one?

• 19:27Speaker 02

  I do. Hard no.

• 19:30Mel Robbins?

  How did you know?

• 19:32Speaker 02

  Just my whole body.

• 19:33Mel Robbins?

  What's a no feel like?

• 19:37Speaker 02

  Just very uninterested, unenthused, feels very closed off. Just I don't want to be there anymore. I feel out of place. That's what a, that's what a no feels like for me.

• 19:49Mel Robbins?

  Okay. Second school?

• 19:52Speaker 02

  It was a yes, big yes. Dartmouth?

• 19:56Mel Robbins?

  Dartmouth College. Was it weird to have a parent on the tour with you that went to that school?

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah.

• 20:09Mel Robbins?

  You can call me out.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was weird.

• 20:12Mel Robbins?

  How come?

• 20:12Speaker 02

  It was weird. Because on the tour, we'd be walking and the tour guide would say something and then you'd be able to go into depth about it. Or you'd talk about all these mini traditions that happen.

• 20:24Mel Robbins?

  Was that annoying?

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. I wasn't going to let your opinion or dad's opinion affect me because this is the next four years of my life. And so no matter how you felt or what you said, I was not going to let it affect me. There was one point where you, where we were walking and you were saying something about how my application for Dartmouth, when I ED here, it's going to need to show this and this and this. And I turned to you and I just say, how do you even know I'm going to apply here? Because you had already had this vision of me applying and going here, but I wasn't going to let that get in my way.

• 21:01Mel Robbins?

  So how did you get to a yes? What does a yes feel like?

• 21:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, a yes is super open. You feel lots of possibilities. You feel like you're in the right place. You feel comfortable. You can see a bunch of different opportunities and possibilities in this space.

• 21:22Mel Robbins?

  Oh, that's a great way to put it. That you feel super open. You feel expansive when it's a yes, like you're going to grow, that there's possibility. You know, there was something else that happened later in the week during the college tours that I can't stop thinking about. Do you remember one of the schools we visited? They didn't even allow the parents to go on the same tour as their kids. I mean, that is just so brilliant.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. When you're a kid and you're touring colleges, your parent.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  Is essentially your guide and you look to them for answers and praise or denial. And so maybe you're liking a college, so you want to see if they also like it. And if they don't, you may feel as though, oh, well, then I shouldn't like this one because they don't like this one, or I should like this one, but because they like this one. And so the tour guide split it up because when you're on the tour, you no longer have someone to turn to and ask if they like it or not. You just are on that tour with yourself, having to feel about it.

• 22:29Mel Robbins?

  I think that's an incredible metaphor. How quickly could you tell when I'm like, I don't like this canvas?

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Pretty quickly.

• 22:37Mel Robbins?

  There are people around you whose energy impacts you and it screws with your ability to know what's true for you. Whether it's your friends, or it's your family, or it's your boyfriend, or your girlfriend, or significant other, there is somebody that you turn to and go, what do you think? And they're right on the tour with you in life.

• 22:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 22:57Mel Robbins?

  And when I think about how you make gut decisions, I come back to this visual of imagine all those people that you want to turn and go, so what do you think about this? Imagine them being on a different tour. You're there alone assessing what you need to do.

• 23:13Speaker 02

  Right. And so you're just in your head thinking about what you think of it.

• 23:17Mel Robbins?

  Exactly. Oak, thank you for explaining how you tune into your instincts because I didn't know how to do that when I was your age. Mostly, I fumbled forward and backwards through life. I had no idea how to read or feel the decision the way that you do. That is just so cool for somebody your age.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Thank you, Mom.

• 23:38Mel Robbins?

  You're welcome, Oak. Don't lose that, no matter how annoying I get. Do not lose the ability to tune me out and just keep on feeling your way into the decisions, bud, and I think you are gonna head in the right direction. Thanks for being here. All right. As we lean further into this topic of learning how to trust your gut, I want to tell you something. This is the truth. Your instincts are always right.

• 24:04Mel Robbins?

  And the issue isn't trusting them. The issue is that you're afraid. You're afraid to make a decision that you know feels right for you. So let's not even talk about trusting your gut. Let's just focus on the real issue: courage. The reason why you're afraid to make a decision that feels right for you is because you're surrounded by other voices that instead of feeling what you need to feel and then finding the courage to act in accordance with it, you still stop. You turn around. You look around and you go, "What do you think?" You turn to the person you're dating or married. "What do you think?" You think about your... "What are my parents gonna think? What are my friends gonna think? What are other people gonna think?"

• 24:49Mel Robbins?

  You're still hanging around people whose energy is influencing you, or it's cringey, or it's overwhelming, or it's too dominant. You better believe other people's opinions are still clouding your judgment. And so, we're gonna lean into this metaphor. This metaphor of being on a group tour and how there are times in your life when you need to notice that you're turning around and wondering what everybody else thinks and that you actually have to leave the tour. You gotta step away from it. In order to make the decision that's right for you, you're gonna have to step on a different tour.

• 25:32Mel Robbins?

  You're gonna have to leave all those other voices behind. You're gonna have to join in with the future you, with the person that is headed in the direction that you know you wanna go. Because when you step on a solo tour, a tour that's led by the future you, you're never, ever, ever gonna make the wrong decision. Now, everybody in your family may be like, "Hey, what are you doing? Why are you going over that way? Why aren't you going with us? We're going to this." And you're like, "Mm-mm. I don't wanna go in that direction. I wanna go over there." That's why it requires courage. You can't transfer. What are people gonna think? Get divorced? We're Irish Catholic. People don't do that here. You mean, apply to nursing school after you're divorced?

• 26:16Mel Robbins?

  You can't just do that. Oh, yes, you can.

• 26:21Mel Robbins?

  The more you realize that there is power when you listen to yourself, when you tap into courage, when you step away from the group think, and you listen to your think, your instincts are right. The problem is never your instincts. The problem is your fear and the fact that you're so scared of what everybody else thinks. You're scared of upsetting mom. You're scared of what everybody else is going to say, that you don't listen to what your heart is telling you is right for you to do. So I want to make sure you're aware of what a no, a big NO, feels like.

• 27:02Mel Robbins?

  And there's a couple of questions that you can ask yourself so you can feel it. Does it shrink you? Does it make you feel stuck? Do you lose your energy? That's a hell frickin' no. You can feel it. Or is it a yes? There's possibility, there's growth. It's kind of scary, but there's expansion here. You could see yourself a year ahead in this different life. Yeah, it's going to disappoint people. Yes, it's going to require change. Yes, it's going to require you to learn something new. Yes, it's going to require you to step away from that group, that pack, that way of thinking, that direction that you've been heading. And that is freaking terrifying. That's why you don't do it.

• 27:47Mel Robbins?

  Well, we're going to change that. Because there's a different tour. There's a different option. The future you is trying to say, "Don't go over there. Come over here with me. Come on, we're going in this direction. Let everybody else go in the other direction. You come with me." And this is so important because way too often, other people, they will lead you in the exact opposite direction that you need to go. And you're going to want to hear this story that my friend Amy is about to tell you, because it is a moment in her life with her business, where she was going to do something crazy, bold, and everybody around her was like, "Don't do it." Well, you're going to hear that story and what she did when we return.

• 28:33Mel Robbins?

  When it comes to investing, or really anything, don't you think it's important to choose a company that you can trust? One where you have the freedom to do things your way with confidence? Because some days, you might want a little more control and flexibility. And other times, you may need a specialist in your corner to help out. Well, with Schwab, you get all that and more, all in one place. Schwab has everything from self-directed investing when you're thinking, hey, I got this, all the way to full-service wealth management when you're like, you know what? I'm gonna need to get some help. That includes planning for big goals too, like college, buying a house, retirement planning, and more. Because if you're gonna do this whole money thing, you might as well choose a firm that lets you do it your way, right?

• 29:17Mel Robbins?

  Visit schwab.com to learn more. That's S-C-H-W-A-B dot com. Have you noticed that these days, there's a holiday for everything? So, Ollie went ahead and declared August National Dog Poop Month. Have you ever gone through a phase where you analyze your dog's poops? You know, that one looks healthy, ooh, that one, not so much. If anyone gets being this invested in the quality of their dog's poop, it's Ollie. They deliver fresh, human-grade food that is gently cooked to maximize your dog's nutrition. In other words, they make sure your dog's poops are 10 out of 10 every time. Ollie's fresh recipes are developed by real chefs with gut-friendly ingredients that support better digestion, energy, skin health, and better poops.

• 30:02Mel Robbins?

  This summer, treat your pup to better food and perfect poops. Head to ollie.com/mell, tell them all about your dog, and use code MEL to get 70% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. It's super easy and risk-free with their obsession guarantee. That's O-L-L-I-E dot com slash mell, and enter code MEL to get 70% off your first box. Ollie, feed the obsession. One of the things I'm most proud of here at the Mel Robbins Podcast is that we're constantly growing and hiring new, amazing people to join the team. So, let me introduce you to our new producer, Matt. Matt, you just moved to Boston, joined our team, furnished your new apartment with our sponsor Wafer.

• 30:43Mel Robbins?

  Be honest, how empty was this place when you got the keys?

• 30:48Speaker 01

  It was pretty sad, like, air mattress on the floor, eating takeout in a lawn chair, sad.

• 30:53Mel Robbins?

  So, where did you even start?

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Went straight to Wayfair because I needed everything. Bed frame, couch, area rug, desk, you name it.

• 31:00Mel Robbins?

  How did Wayfair help you feel at home?

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Once I laid out the rug and assembled the couch, I was like, all right, this is home now.

• 31:08Mel Robbins?

  Well, there you have it. More than 20 million verified five-star reviews on Wayfair. Helps shoppers buy with confidence. Plus, Wayfair Rewards members get 5% back on every purchase. Transform your space with pieces that hold up to real life. Join Wayfair Rewards today and get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com or shop the Wayfair app for all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 31:38Mel Robbins?

  Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins and you and I are talking about gut decisions, how you make them. And I really want to hone in on this idea of tuning out other voices. And to do that, I've got this incredible story that I want you to hear. So Amy, you had this experience when you were running your marketing and copywriting agency, and you were in this business mastermind group where you were meeting with a bunch of other business owners, and they almost tried to stop you from doing this amazing thing in your business. Will you just tell everybody the story?

• 32:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure. So my story is that I was in a mastermind, which is kind of like a tour, a bunch of people together, doing things with their businesses that they want to do, achieving goals together and patting each other on the back and like supporting each other. So one day I showed up at the mastermind and I said, you know what, you guys? This is what I'm going to do. This is my next big thing. I am going to make what I made last year in this next month.

• 32:42Mel Robbins?

  Wow.

• 32:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's a thing that people do. I mean, it's not like it wasn't my idea. I had heard it from somebody else. I wanted to take my business to the next level. And if you really believe in yourself or want to find out what's holding you back, try to make what you made last year in one month.

• 33:00Mel Robbins?

  Can I ask you a question?

• 33:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:01Mel Robbins?

  So since we're talking about... Gut instinct.

• 33:05Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 33:05Mel Robbins?

  When you heard somebody say that you can make a quantum leap if you're willing to find the courage to go, that's it, next month, I'm making what I made last year, next month in my business. What was the process of even going, I'm doing that? Because that's pretty courageous and bold. Was there something that happened?

• 33:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:25Mel Robbins?

  What happened?

• 33:25Speaker 03

  I just felt like, I want that. Quantum leap? That sounds amazing. That sounds like living life. That sounds like I'm gonna be in a different spot and that, that is gonna change me. And I'm, I think I'm gonna really love that.

• 33:40Mel Robbins?

  It's almost like, if you think about the tour analogy, it is like the future is like, no, no, no, come over here.

• 33:45Speaker 03

  Exactly. It really was. It was like, this is your next step. And it's a big one.

• 33:50Mel Robbins?

  Wow. Okay. So you're running your copywriting and marketing business?

• 33:54Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 33:55Mel Robbins?

  You go into this mastermind.

• 33:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, all these people that are supposed to be supporting me.

• 33:59Mel Robbins?

  And what happens?

• 34:00Speaker 03

  I am going to make what I made last year in this next month. And dead silence after I announced that. Everybody was just like mentally regrouping from what I had to say. And there was just like total silence. And I said, well, I mean, it's, I've heard other people do it.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  You know? And I was just like, what do you, what do you, what, what do you guys think?

• 34:35Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  Not because I wanted to know what they thought, but I just was kind of like, why is everybody so silent, you know? And then the voices started talking and the voices of everybody in my mastermind group. Well, how, how are you gonna do that? I never had heard of that before. Why would you want to do that? You can't do that. You need a longer runway. You can't do it next month. How much did you actually make last year? What, what are you thinking? What, what is this gonna do for you? Why would you want to put that on yourself?

• 35:04Mel Robbins?

  And when that started happening, what did you feel?

• 35:06Speaker 03

  I felt assaulted, almost, you know? Like in the sense that I knew that this is what I needed to do. I knew that this was right for my future self. And I couldn't believe that people weren't supporting me in, and, and couldn't see that I could actually do this. I, I really couldn't believe that people were holding me back from it. But there was this one woman, I will never forget her. Her name is Rachelle Wright. Okay. She is an American Sicilian. She lives in Michigan. We love her. And she is a ball of fucking fire. Okay. And she said, I think everybody should back off. Cause Amy's actually gonna do this.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  And she basically told everybody to shut up. She's like, I'm taking a different tour. Amy, with me. And that's what happened, Mel. One of the things that she said that I remember is, if she wants to do it, why wouldn't you let her try it? Like, why are you guys trying to convince her she can't? And I loved that. Because if I could do it, it meant they could do it. And if I could do it, it meant we all would be a better group because I did it. But look at what they did instead. They just said, no, no, you can't, you can't. Maybe because they didn't want to have to do it. You know, like, I don't know. Did you do it? I did do it. What? I did do it. I committed to it. And I'll never forget this.

• 36:36Speaker 03

  Two weeks into my commitment to myself and my group, even though they could care less, except for Rachelle Wright. I got a phone call from a client. He's a creative director and he asked me to write 10 eBooks in the next month. And, you know, name your price. You're the person to do it. I will never forget, I was on Route 684, around the Mount Kisco exit. And the phone rang and as soon as it rang, I saw who it was. And I was like, this is happening right now. Oh, my God. Yeah, it was super cool. Yeah. I love that. It was an amazing feeling. Wow. It was the feeling that I wanted. Right? It was that feeling that I was...

• 37:21Speaker 03

  Hoping I would have when I took on that challenge.

• 37:26Mel Robbins?

  As you were describing this, I was immediately back in class with Mr. Beaver going, "You're not gonna get in there. You better not get your house up." And I didn't have the Richelli right. I had to be that for myself. I had to be like, "Fuck you. Fuck off. Watch me fucking do this." And you have to do that for yourself.

• 37:48Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:49Mel Robbins?

  Because it's a gift. I remember we just started a walking group here in southern Vermont this morning, and there were like 25 women that showed up. And there was this one woman that was super cool. Well, everybody was cool. But she was telling the story about how she recently went back to nursing school after getting a divorce. And it was because she had a Richelli right. Next door was like, "Well, you wanna be a nurse? Just go back to school." She's like, "That's all you need to do?"

• 38:10Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:11Mel Robbins?

  It is. Because when somebody says, "Just go back to school," or "Just get the divorce," or "Just change your job," or "Just move," for that moment, you allow yourself to imagine what life would feel like. And that's what the yes feels like.

• 38:31Speaker 03

  Yeah. And all those people in my mastermind group, they didn't want to be open to that. You know, for me, and maybe even for themselves, too. I think we don't do that a lot. We don't say like, "What's possible now?" We say like, "Well, what's the next fucking thing I gotta do?"

• 38:49Mel Robbins?

  It's so true. And that's why I love this metaphor of that moment of going on a college tour. Because it is a moment where you contemplate, very intentionally, your next move.

• 39:04Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:05Mel Robbins?

  And we all have that opportunity in our lives at any moment.

• 39:10Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 39:11Mel Robbins?

  To basically go, "Okay, the tour I'm on is headed over here, and it's these voices." And your story is about very loud voices chiming in, kind of the way I was with the annoying way on the Dartmouth tour. But I also can think about periods in my life where my emotions, but this, but that, but what are you gonna do? But you don't know how to do that. But that, that, that, that, that. Like, that was me during the entire experience of being in law school and being a young lawyer, knowing I don't want this. And yet, being that negative voice for myself, like, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but you can't do this, but that, but everybody's going this direction. But what are you gonna

• 39:55Mel Robbins?

  do? You don't know what you're gonna do, then you better do this. You will waste years, decades even, of your fucking life, moving in the wrong direction, because you will not slow down and tune in to what you know is true. You're afraid of it. That's why I keep saying it requires courage. And yes, you will ultimately end up where you need to go, but you can save yourself the headache, the heartache, and the breakdowns and the years that you will waste in the wrong direction. Do I regret going to law school? No, because it's a decision that I made. But could I have gotten where I am without it? Of course I could have. Of course I could have. And I didn't have to torture myself the way that I did.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 40:41Mel Robbins?

  I love the visual of parents, you know, going off in one direction with their opinions and their agendas and their, and like your mastermind group, waddling off in that direction.

• 40:51Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 40:51Mel Robbins?

  And then there's another choice. There's the future you. Going, no, no, no, no, no. Come on over here. Come on over here and let's just take a tour of what life could look like. Doesn't mean it's gonna happen, but I think in even finding the courage to allow yourself to imagine it.

• 41:09Speaker 03

  And that's the part that I was saying, you know, when you're like, oh, that was really brave. It was like, yeah, and if it didn't happen, I would have still learned a lot. I would have grown a lot. And I would have known what it's like to feel the support of somebody like Rochelle was for me in that moment. And that would have been great for me to know. And

• 41:29Speaker 03

  It would have been okay, even if I didn't make it. And I think that that's why I wasn't really that scared because I knew that I would learn so much. I absolutely feel like it was a fast forward button that I pushed in my life.

• 41:45Mel Robbins?

  I love that. Oh, my God, you have the courage to push fast forward.

• 41:50Speaker 03

  Fast forward. And of course, when I was in that fast forward moment, I write those 10 eBooks. And then after that, I got a ton of work. And guess who I turned to when I had too much work and I needed subcontract?

• 42:04Mel Robbins?

  Rachella Wright.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  Rachelli.

• 42:05Mel Robbins?

  Rachelli Wright.

• 42:06Speaker 03

  She was right there, part of the success.

• 42:09Mel Robbins?

  Wow, I love that.

• 42:10Speaker 03

  You know?

• 42:10Mel Robbins?

  I love that.

• 42:11Speaker 03

  And still, like, she comes up in my feed sometimes and it's like, my heart just, just glows when I see her name because she's behind me.

• 42:21Mel Robbins?

  You know what's cool, everybody? The second that you break from that tour with critical voices and you join your future self, you catch up to a tour of people that are on the same path.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  Oh, I just got the chills when you said that because that's what I always wanted from life. My people that I know have the same vision that I can support, that are supporting me. To me, that's really living. Like, I remember being in grammar school and looking at my class and being like, we're just random people in here. Like, we don't really belong together. You're family sometimes, right? You're just random people. And I always love to be in the company of other people that are just in the same jet stream that I have.

• 42:59Mel Robbins?

  Yes. And that sets up the story I want to tell you because I think whether you identify with Amy and you have people around you saying you can't do that, or you identify even with the experience that Oakley's with where everybody's weighing in on the decision and everybody's asking and there's a ton of pressure and you've got to just tune it all out. A lot of us struggle with our own voices, our own insecurities, our own fears. It's not even that other people are telling you what to do. It's that you're so busy looking around and being concerned and making up stories about what other people are thinking and about your own emotions that you can't. A, settle yourself down and be honest with yourself about what's actually not working

• 43:44Mel Robbins?

  and what you really want. It's more often than not that the voices that you're hearing are the ones that you're making up. So, as we were talking this morning as a team, Cameron on our team was also sharing a story about how she applied to Indiana University and knew immediately, as she was dropping it, "Not for me, not for me." Like, "Way too big, it's too far away, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck." And the voices that kept her there were her own concern and fear, same as me in law school. What are people, people who transfer are losers. What are people gonna think? You know, they're all gonna judge me.

• 44:27Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. And she even, when she was telling that story, her dad said to her, "Well, you can transfer." And she just swatted that away.

• 44:37Mel Robbins?

  It's like, "I'm not transferring."

• 44:38Speaker 03

  I'm not doing that.

• 44:39Mel Robbins?

  People are not gonna do that. That's your own story. Same thing that I did to myself in law school. You hear the "no" louder than the "yes." And so, if you're sitting here going, "I gotta tune out what my spouse thinks, what my boyfriend or girlfriend thinks, what my family thinks, I gotta fast forward and I gotta ask myself, do I picture myself in this life a year from now?" And if the answer's "no," you damn well better get on a tour with the future you and start feeling out what do you wanna do. And all you need to know is, "Not this. Not this. Anything but this. Anything but this." So, whatever wake-up call you're having right now, because I think you're probably realizing

• 45:24Mel Robbins?

  there's an area of your life where you are literally surrounded by loud voices. Whether the loud voices are your own fear or your own story, you gotta notice. When are you turning around going, "What do you think?" When are you realizing that you've taken all these other people on the tour with you? When really, you need the future you to go, "No, no, no, come on over here. Let's just, uh, kind of time travel forward. Let's consider this decision of going back to nursing school. Let's consider this decision of stopping the crying and stopping looking backwards, and we're not doing that anymore. Let's put your life back together. Let's do that." And it's not easy. I'm not saying this is an easy thing to do. I'm saying it's the

• 46:09Mel Robbins?

  thing you need to do. There's a difference between something being easy and something being right. I noticed Jesse, who runs video production here, is starting to get all teary eyed.

• 46:20Speaker 04

  Shocking. Yeah, hearing you guys say that these life-changing moments, these pivots that you ultimately have to make yourself, and you have to have the courage to make it yourself. I did that. It was after my sophomore year in college. I was a pharmacy major. That was not my gut. I knew it going in, signing up for college. Why am I, I don't want to do, I don't want to be a pharmacist. But I'm gonna do it. This is all I know.

• 46:47Mel Robbins?

  Why was it all you knew?

• 46:49Speaker 04

  I worked in a pharmacy in high school.

• 46:50Mel Robbins?

  Oh.

• 46:52Speaker 04

  Counting pills. After high school, I had my job at Harris Teeter Grocery Store. Loved it. Thought, this is the only thing I know. Guess I'll be a pharmacist. So, I just look back, hearing you guys say that, because it's like, I'm just so proud of that 20, 21-year-old Jesse, who made a fucking huge pivot and was scared shitless.

• 47:16Mel Robbins?

  Bring me to that moment.

• 47:17Speaker 04

  I had to do summer school for Organic Chemistry 2. I passed Organic Chemistry 1. Not so much Organic Chemistry 2, which is why I had to do summer school. I had to take a test, and my professor pulled me after the test and was like, "Do you really want to do this?" No, I don't. You called me out. Thank you. I don't want to do this. So after that, of course, I saw, I'm going home, I've got all my books for the, I think it's the PSAT, the pharmacy school books that you take. I've been studying my ass off, trying to like, make this, just fit this into my life. So I have to change my major. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I didn't know anyone who wanted to do broadcast journalism. I

• 48:02Speaker 04

  didn't know anyone who was gonna stay an extra semester because I changed my major. So changed it. And I'm just so proud of that girl, because she did it. And I have had such an incredible career so far that I'm really proud of, that is not pharmacy, it's what my heart wanted, that I always knew I wanted. I didn't know anyone going after this path.

• 48:30Mel Robbins?

  How did you know? How did you find the courage to do it?

• 48:39Speaker 04

  I don't, I don't, I wish I had a clear answer, but it was something that I wanted to just try.

• 48:45Mel Robbins?

  Where did you feel it in your body?

• 48:47Speaker 04

  Oh, in my heart, in my heart, for sure. And sure enough, when I changed my major and added an extra semester, I, when I went back to school that fall, I found an internship with the football program and that was just again, like, "Good job, kid! You did that with no one helping you!"

• 49:04Mel Robbins?

  You helped you.

• 49:05Speaker 04

  I was my own little tour guide.

• 49:07Mel Robbins?

  There you go. You were your own little tour guide and I think that is a huge takeaway from this. You have to be your own tour guide in life. You have to let the future you and the heart and what you're drawn toward, go, "Hey, over here, leave the pack and come in this direction." And when you do that, things magically align. And I think that's the other thing that, you know, Amy and I were just talking about, which is, we think we're going off alone, but there's actually a whole nother group of people you're catching up to.

• 49:37Speaker 04

  Yes. And now some of my best friends.

• 49:41Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, you gotta, you gotta trust that. Oh, my God, so cool.

• 49:44Speaker 04

  Thank you. Thank you guys for sharing that. It just made my heart tick a little bit, so.

• 49:51Mel Robbins?

  Well, I think that's the whole point of this conversation. That whether you're catching yourself from influencing somebody else or you are realizing that you have been heading in the wrong direction and it's time for you to find your future self and walk in a new direction, that's exactly what I wanted. I wanted this conversation to make your heart flutter and this conversation to remind you that you've done this in the past and to remind you that you can do it again and again and again and again. And it will never not require courage because it requires you to step out on your own.

• 50:30Mel Robbins?

  We all know we need to trust our gut. That's like, that's duh. The thing is how? And so takeaway number one that I want you to leave with is stop saying, "Trust your gut," and start saying, "I need to have the courage to make decisions that are right for me." Second, feeling, feeling, feeling. Give yourself the ability and the time to drop into your body and feel whether or not the decision or the direction opens up possibility. It levels you up. It may be scary as hell. I mean, think about Amy's story. How the hell are you going to do 12 months of revenue in one month? You just declared that? Who the fuck does that? You do.

• 51:14Mel Robbins?

  If it feels like a part of you is shrinking, "Oh, I'm going here because everybody in my family went here. I'm a doctor because everybody in my family is a doctor. I live here because everybody lives here." That's not the right decision. When you do drop in and you allow yourself to step onto a tour with the future you, find the courage. The courage to move in that direction. And one more thing. In case nobody else tells you today, I love you. I don't care where you went to college. I believe in you. I believe in your ability to tune out the noise, to step onto a tour with the future you

• 51:57Mel Robbins?

  and to walk into the direction that you know is right for you. Alrighty, I'll see you in a few days. Go Dartmouth.

• 52:15Mel Robbins?

  Oh, one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.

• 52:37Speaker 04

  Stitcher.

• 52:41Mel Robbins?

  This episode is brought to you by SoFi, the everything app for smarter money. Let me ask you something. Is your money working for you? Or is it just sitting there? A lot of us work hard, get paid, and then leave our paycheck in checking. That's an easy habit to change. With SoFi Checking and Savings, you can earn up to 3.8% savings APY for up to six months with no account fees and a cash bonus of up to $400 when you sign up with eligible direct deposit. Terms apply. It takes just minutes to open an account from your phone, and you can organize your savings into vaults for the goals you're working toward. Go to sofi.com/mal to get started. SoFi, get your money right.

• 53:25Mel Robbins?

  SoFi Checking and Savings is offered through SoFi Bank, N.A., member FDIC. Nearly 50 years after Stephen King's Carrie became a cultural phenomenon, Mike Flanagan is reimagining the iconic story for a new generation. Now, the new series honors the legacy of the original Carrie, but it's asking the question, are we watching the origin of a hero, a villain, or something far more complicated? And in this modern social media age, Carrie's new story resonates more than ever. You don't want to miss it. Carrie is now streaming on Prime Video.