Jack Harlow - Say Hello

Jack Harlow is from Louisville, Kentucky, and started performing and releasing music in 2015, when he was in high school. In 2020, he released his first album, which went double platinum. He was nominated for a Grammy for Best Rap Performance. He’s had multiple number one hits across his first three albums. For his fourth album, Monica, which just came out in March 2026, he switched things up dramatically. I was curious how and why—how did someone who had so much success as a rapper approach a new way of making music? So for this episode, I spoke to Jack Harlow about the song “Say Hello,” which is the closing track on Monica. For more info, visit songexploder.net/jack-harlow. https://songexploder.net/jack-harlow

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Hrishikesh Hirway?

  You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs and, piece by piece, tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishi Kesh Hirway.

• 0:11Hrishikesh Hirway?

  I'm going to be on tour, playing some shows this fall. I'm going to be in London on Wednesday, November 18. I'm going to be performing solo at Rough Trade Records on Denmark Street, and I'm going to be in conversation about my music moderated by one of my favorite actors and writers, Matthew Bainton. And a ticket to the show also gets you a copy of my album on vinyl or CD. And in December, I'm going to be on tour supporting S. Carry. We're going to be playing a bunch of shows in the Northeast US. So I hope to see you in one of those places. You can find all the details and get links to tickets at songexploder.net/live. That's songexploder.net/live.

• 0:57Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Jack Harlow is from Louisville, Kentucky, and started performing and releasing music in 2015, when he was in high school. In 2020, he released his first album, which went double platinum. He was nominated for a Grammy for Best Rap Performance. He's had multiple number one hits across his first three albums. And for his fourth album, Monica, which just came out in March 2026, he switched things up dramatically. And I was curious how and why? How did someone who had so much success as a rapper approach a new way of making music? So for this episode, I spoke to Jack Harlow about the song "Say Hello", which is the closing track on Monica.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  My name's Jack Harlow.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  I was working on a different album for two years after Jackman, my last one. And it was good, but I didn't think it was exciting or surprising. It just wasn't distinct enough. And it also felt like something I'd done before, which, you know, repeating yourself is boring. And I was getting more and more frustrated and I was dreading going to the studio. And, you know, as soon as recording becomes work, you're in trouble, I think. Not that there's no work ethic involved, of course, sometimes you have to grind it out. But when you're trying to get inspired and it feels like labor, it's something to take as a sign. So finally, I just took three weeks off. I remember talking about it with my engineer right before I took that three week break

• 2:37Speaker 01

  and sort of having to reconcile it in front of him, almost a little embarrassed, saying, "Yeah, man, you know, I just gotta think." He said it out loud for me. I was already thinking it, but he put it really well. He's like, "I think you just need to choose a north star that is distinct and definitive." So I took a lot of walks. You know, I think part of the reason I was dreading going to the studio is I had just moved to New York and I would look out the occasional window I might have in a studio. I'd go outside and say, "Wow, I'd rather be out here than be in there recording." And so I decided to think about, "What do I actually want to do? What am I listening to? What does my ear crave?" I've always been attracted to melody and I listen to a lot of melodic music.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  I find I prefer melodic music and I think there's something so timeless and emotional about melody. A lot of my early stuff had a lot more melody involved. And then it's almost like I found my rap tone and I was getting such a great response from it. And it became something I could lean on so consistently that I think I got further and further away from melody. But the genre of neo-soul as a whole was super influential to me, just how pleasant it was. So I wanted something that in 20 years I'll still like the sound of.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  About three years ago, I first caught Wind of Axle Arvid, a loopmaker from Norway. And there's a lot of loopmakers in hip hop that are over in Europe that are almost faceless to the rest of the industry and just send loops through email to big-name producers. So to me, he was another one of those. And he was talented, but I didn't know much more about him. And he worked with my longtime friend and collaborator, Two For One, who I grew up with. But he introduced me to Axel and brought him to Kentucky for the first time. And he was just somebody I met in passing. And we had a couple of songs that we worked on together. And then sometime in 2024, my little brother, Clay Harlow,

• 4:40Speaker 01

  is a producer too. He's on this album. And he became closer with Axel as well. And he asked, could he bring Axel to a session? So Axel came around and we started to get to know each other. And we started to realize there were parallels in our interests and our natures. He and I bonded over R&B. We were attracted to similar melodies and sounds. So he became the clear go-to guy, an executive producer for me.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  I could tell you a few of the rules that we followed. You know, I think rules are so, so wonderful to end up somewhere specific. And I'd say the number one, when Axel first got to New York, the first thing I said after those three weeks of deliberating were, "I don't want to make anything with braggadocio or overt egoism. You know, I want to make something that I think can age really well." And I was at the time in a mindset of ego is weighing down the quality of the music as it gets older. So I was interested in no braggadocio. I was interested in only being melodic. So singing the whole time, no cursing. Curse words can be a crutch sometimes. They can also be exciting and add a punctuation

• 5:51Speaker 01

  to things, but that's not what I was looking for this time. I like the challenge as a writer of not having any crutches. And then all the instruments, we eventually decided had to be live, except for the drums. The drums could be programmed to keep it hip hop, but you know, no synths coming out of the computer, the bass, the guitar, horns, strings, everything had to be live. So those were some of the things we lived by and we knew we'd end up somewhere. Of the songs that made the album, "Say Hello" is the earliest. I showed up to the studio and Axel played this beat, made up at the time of Jermaine Paul's bass notes, Axel on Rhodes,

• 6:35Speaker 01

  and he had done the drums as well.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  And he just played me the beat.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  I just sat there with shades on for 20 minutes listening to it, just steeping myself in it.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  You know, I was very moody in these sessions. I think the stakes felt high to me. I just scrapped an album and I cared a lot about how this was gonna end up. And I don't think moodiness is the best response, but I'm a naturally moody person. And sometimes I walk in there and just...

• 7:09Speaker 01

  I just need a second to warm up socially. And this is one of those days where I walked in a little moody and sometimes I just wanna listen to the beat. I don't wanna talk about what I think of it or how it got made. I just wanna hear it for a while. And I think this is one of those days where I just wanted to let it play. But I immediately was like, "Oh, this feels slum village. This feels outcast. This just feels like part of the music I love." It felt very in line with the reason I started this project as all.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  And so, I knew as soon as I heard it, I was like, "Okay, there's something here."

• 7:46Speaker 01

  And then, we started playing with melodies. The first few weeks of this album, when we were still figuring out what it was, I was recording on almost everything he played because I didn't wanna be too rigid about what I thought it should be or how I wanted it to sound. So, despite the moodiness I was describing, there was a general optimism and openness to everything I was hearing because I just wanted to see... Where we might land and we could filter it later. We can decide where we're going later. But this was still when I was in a zone of let's try it. I mean, a lot of these songs were made just with taking the SM7 out, holding it in my hand and just doing what feels good, which was a relatively new process for me, something that I've been avoiding the last few years.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  I've been so statement first, lyrics first, that I think I've missed out or just neglected the improvisational nature of just playing with melody and making it nonsensical to start. And that's how this song started. It was kind of nonsensical and just finding a melody that felt good. Stop it, been two's in the take up.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Five fifty-two's when you say so. I really not get home. I would you not get home to do? I would lay down a melody for four bars that I really liked. And I would say, while I'm still flowing, let me move on to a different melody. All different melodies of just word vomit.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  And sometimes while you're scattering the melody, a word will come to you. Sometimes you find words that lock right into place. And that's when it feels really good. You don't feel like you're compromising. You feel like it's you and the universe cooking something up. Maybe I'll get at you when my life gets slow. The first line, maybe I'll get at you when my life gets slow. As soon as I said that, I was like, okay, I kind of know what this could be about because I've expressed that sentiment before or at least thought that sentiment in my head. Like, we don't have to, this doesn't have to be a right now thing, but maybe when things slow down, it'll align. And maybe it won't. It's not just my decision. It's not just me saying when things slow down for me, I'll be available for you. It's maybe you'll be available, maybe I will.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Maybe the stars will align, is that sentiment. But one day I'll be walking by the place you stay. Ooh. It felt like a mosaic of memories. I feel like I've had a good amount of stop and starts with people that.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  It wasn't negative. It didn't end in an ugly way. But sometimes you begin something and the timing isn't right. But there's still a positive feeling. You still like something about them, you know? It's, you're not dumping them, they're not dumping you. It's just, huh, this doesn't seem to make sense for us right now.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  Baby, I'll get there when my life gets slow.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Up to this point, my vocal has been this singular, laid back, sometimes monotonous rap vocal. And, you know, I didn't want to just make new music. I want it to be heard in a way I've never been heard. And it thrills me that a few of these songs, people have to ask, is that you? Because I think it's exciting to access new parts of your voice and stretch yourself.

• 11:11Speaker 02

  I'm missing you in the shape of you. I'll visit you when the day comes. I'm giving up control. I'm giving up control of you. You know I want you bad. You know I come running back. Sometimes I...

• 11:31Speaker 01

  In my head, there's only so many sweet spots in my voice. And when I find the sweet spot, whatever notes those are, whatever octave it is, that's what I can accomplish on this song. And, you know, this album was not about showing people how good of a singer I am. It was about showing people my choice and curation. I'm not looking to show people, oh, my God, he's actually an incredible singer. I'm looking to show people I can make music that sounds really good. And whatever way I get there is the best way I get there. But I wanted to make something that was less about my talent being on display and more my taste.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  Whoa, whoa, say hello, say hello.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  I mean, I remember early in my career wanting to make a commercial splash and almost looking down on stuff that wasn't taking enough of a risk to be commercial. So now I find myself on the other end of the pendulum saying, well, I'm more interested in making this type of music right now. There's things I'm still driven by, there's things I'm still insecure about. You know, I still have a status anxiety from time to time, like anyone that's trying to climb. I would love to catch a smash off of this album, but that's not why I made it.

• 12:48Hrishikesh Hirway?

  More with Jack Harlow after this.

• 12:52Hrishikesh Hirway?

  This episode is sponsored by Tidal. If you're an artist, or if you know somebody making music, you should know about Tidal Upload. It's a way to share and sell music without the usual barriers. You can upload your music directly to Tidal at no cost. You decide how you want to release it. You can share it publicly with Tidal listeners, or you can keep it private until you're ready. Or you can sell your music directly through Tidal Upload. Your music will also be considered by Tidal's editorial team for their playlists. And if your track is selected for their spotlight program, you'll get $1,000 bonus, and you'll be on one of their marquee playlists. And now, Tidal has dropped its platform fee to 0%, which means you keep more of your earnings there than on any other platform.

• 13:37Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Visit tidal.com/songexploder to create an account and start uploading your music for free. That's tidal.com/songexploder for zero platform fees on every sale. Your music, your earnings.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  So like I said, I come up with all these melodies without troubling myself at all about the words. And then, we go into puzzle piece mode and say, "Cool, let's actually do some of the work, the labor of piecing these..." And I know a lot of artists that hate the lyrics part. You know, that's why so many artists work with writers, because they want all of music. They want their whole career to be instinct. And I relate to that. But I enjoy language enough that I enjoy the puzzle piecing of lyrics. And it does get frustrating sometimes, but I like both sides.

• 14:26Speaker 02

  I'll be understanding if you change your name.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  I'll be understanding if you change your name. If you get married, I get it.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  Maybe you prefer to live a life you know.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  With my career, I end up meeting women that... They live a life that is totally unlike mine. And maybe is a little slower and more stable. And it's me essentially saying, "Maybe you would actually enjoy living the life that is familiar to you and is more conventional than mine. And maybe that is what's best for you." I definitely zeroed in on a poignant acceptance and melancholy over change and how things change and, you know, the nostalgia of looking back on this time you shared with somebody, but accepting that it's a thing of the past and who knows what the future holds.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  The emotion got more specific and it gave all the musicians something to work with.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  Jermaine plays a six-string bass. And he would lay foundational stuff and then later come back and play something interactive on top of it.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  And then Robert Glasper is playing all that piano.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Robert and I had worked on some music before that never came out. So I brought him into the fold.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  But I'm such a minimalist by nature that sometimes I had to force myself to give things these richer details.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  And a lot of it was so jazzy that I had to grow used to it.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  So the maximalism versus minimalism was a huge thing with this song. And there was a lot of conflict between me and Axel over how much of this busy piano we were gonna keep.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Because I definitely wanted Robert to make it a more rich, dynamic song. You know, we didn't want it to be this loop that had no moments of life. I think it's good to have moments in a song that occur once as opposed to in-looping like a machine. But it was definitely... Us having to find a balance because, you know, at the end of the day, it was Axel's job to get a certain level of complexity and musicality that was important to him across the line. But my requirement I issued to him was, I enjoy minimalism. I enjoy simple, palatable music. And at the same time, I want to be pushed out of my comfort zone. So it really came down to that test for him of get as much complexity as you can across the line here

• 17:32Speaker 01

  without it disturbing my enjoyment. And that was his, in a lot of ways, that sums up his role for this album, to be honest.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  A fellow named Stephane Clement came in during post-production and laced a good set of these songs with beautiful trumpet.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  My voice is so limited and my range is so limited. And, you know, I don't think of myself as a very dynamic singer. I was looking for any opportunity to lift some of my melodies and make them breezier.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Raven Linet is one of the best singers of our generation, in my opinion. I remember I saw her at an open mic in Atlanta in 2017 and was blown away at her voice even back then. And I booked her for the Gazebau Festival I threw in Louisville in 2024. So we actually met at the festival. Sometimes you meet artists and you're like, cool, they're in their own world. Like, there's not going to be a lot of synergy. But sometimes you meet somebody and you're like, I don't know. There's an understanding here. And I think we had that really early. There was a warmth between us. She came to New York and we hung out and talked about life and music and became friends in a real way. And so by the time I was looking for some vocals,

• 19:16Speaker 01

  it felt like an organic way to stamp our friendship, to be honest. And so she came to Electric Lady and laid them right in front of me.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  That's a melody she came up with on the spot. And then, impromptu, she was like, why don't you sing this with me? And so you'll hear she and I started singing together.

• 19:54Hrishikesh Hirway?

  There are these bird calls and nature sounds in the music. And I was wondering, where did that come from?

• 20:00Speaker 01

  This is one of those things that was there from the beginning. It was part of the beat. You know, I love the park. And I wouldn't even call myself a nature guy. You know, I don't like going camping. I don't care to go on hikes, really. I'm not Mr. Nature. But I do like going to the park and I like how it makes me feel. And I think that captured that and it captured how it feels to be outside in New York. It just felt right.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  You don't always know how things are gonna end. But I hate to end anything on bad terms. I'd like for everything to end in a way that allows us to greet each other when we see each other. You know, it doesn't mean we have to go on another date. Doesn't mean we have to rekindle. But it would be nice if we can say hello to each other. It should be like, hey, how you doing? Maybe I can give you a hug. And I think there's optimism to it that I, as a person, believe in.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  I don't know if there's a song that sums up the theme of the album more than this song, to me, actually. There's something obscure about it. There's something more vague and impressionistic about it that I don't know if I've accomplished in some of my other work. I love the way we just kind of captured this loose, blurry feeling in a bottle.

• 21:31Hrishikesh Hirway?

  And now, here's "Say Hello" by Jack Harlow, in its entirety.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  Baby, I'll get at you when my life gets slow.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  I'll be understanding if you change your name.

• 22:01Speaker 02

  Maybe you prefer to live a life you know.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  One day, I'll be walking by the place you stay. Ooh, whoa.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Ooh, whoa. Say hello. Ooh, whoa.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  Ooh, whoa. Say hello. Ooh, whoa. Baby, I'll get at you when my life gets slow.

• 22:25Speaker 02

  I'll be understanding if you change your name.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Maybe you prefer to live a life you know.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  One day, I'll be walking by the place you stay. Ooh, whoa.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  Ooh, whoa. Say hello. Ooh, whoa.

• 22:45Speaker 02

  Ooh, whoa. Say hello. Say hello. I'm missing you in the shape of you. I'll visit you when the day comes. I'm giving up control. I'm giving up control of you. You know I want you back. You know I come running back. Sometimes I'll listen to what you say to me.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  My principles are so painful. I'm giving up control. I'm giving up control of you. Baby, I'll get at you when my life gets slow.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  I'll be understanding if you change your name

• 23:33Speaker 02

  Maybe you prefer to live a life you know

• 23:38Speaker 02

  One day I'll be walking by the place you stay Oh oh

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Oh oh Say hello Oh oh

• 23:48Speaker 02

  Oh oh Say hello Say hello

• 24:50Speaker 02

  Maybe I'll get at you when my life gets slow

• 24:55Speaker 02

  I'll be understanding if you change your name

• 25:00Speaker 02

  Maybe you prefer to live a life you know

• 25:05Speaker 02

  One day I'll be walking by the place you stay Oh oh Oh oh Say hello Oh oh Oh oh Say hello Oh oh Maybe I'll get at you when my life gets slow

• 25:24Speaker 02

  I'll be understanding if you change your name

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Maybe you prefer to live a life you know

• 25:34Speaker 02

  One day I'll be walking by the place you stay

• 26:31Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Go to songexploder.net to learn more. You'll find links to buy or stream Say Hello. This episode was produced by me, Craig Ely, Mary Dolan, and Kathleen Smith, with production assistance from Tiger Biscuit. The episode artwork is by Carlos Lerma, and I made the show's theme music and logo. Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, listener-supported, artist-owned podcasts. You can learn more about our shows at radiotopia.fm. And if you'd like to hear more from me, subscribe to my newsletter. You can find a link to it on the Song Exploder website. You can also

• 27:08Hrishikesh Hirway?

  get a Song Exploder t-shirt at songexploder.net/shirt. I'm Rishi Kesh Hirway. Thanks for listening.

• 27:23Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Radiotopia.

• 27:26Hrishikesh Hirway?

  From PRX.