This Hot Dog Tastes Like Home (Reheat)

We take you to two iconic hot dog joints in Detroit and New Jersey to find out what makes them special. Plus Kenji Lopez-Alt schools us on the science of deep-fried hot dogs, and Dan's parents make a special cameo.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dan Pashman?

  My whole extended family and I went to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina this past spring. And I gotta say, I came away feeling like, number one, this is a great family destination. Number two, this is a great place to come all year round. The mini golf alone is probably worth, it's like the mini golf capital of the country. They have the most incredible elaborate mini golf courses. They also have more than 80 championship, full-size golf courses, plus 60 miles of beautiful coastline, all-season sunshine. Of course, you can relax by the beach or the pool. There's also jet skiing, fishing charters, paddle boarding, and of course, food. Oh, man, did we eat well in Myrtle Beach. From fresh local seafood to craft burgers and craft beers to kebabs on the boardwalk. With more than 2,000 restaurants to choose from, from legendary no-frill seafood shacks

• 0:43Dan Pashman?

  to chef-driven dining, Myrtle Beach has it all. Plus, live entertainment at the beach, there's always something epic going on. So, summer may be winding down, but in Myrtle Beach, you're gonna find the coastal vacation of your dreams all year long. Start planning your ultimate beach vacation at visitmyrtlebeach.com. I grew up on Lando Lakes cheese. I still remember going to the supermarket deli counter with my mom and her ordering Lando Lakes American cheese. And now, Lando Lakes cheese and butter are a huge part of my home. There are so many easy weeknight recipes using Lando Lakes cheese and butter that bring delicious restaurant taste right to your table. From chicken parm to weeknight shrimp pad Thai, Lando Lakes has plenty of quick dishes that'll have the whole dinner table talking.

• 1:23Dan Pashman?

  Visit landolakes.com/reцепes/collection for easy weeknight dinners.

• 1:32Dan Pashman?

  Time for another reheat, and it is 4th of July week. We did a new episode just a few days ago that was very hot dog-centric, and we're sticking with that theme this week. We're visiting two classic family-owned hot dog spots. The first one, Red Hot's Coney Island in Highland Park, Michigan, was in business for over 100 years, but they closed for good in 2021. So, I'm so glad we have this document of their incredible history. Owner Rich Harland, who you'll meet in this episode, told the Detroit Free Press when they closed down, "I've been doing this for 55 years. My, my wife wants to retire." Well, well deserved to the whole family. The second hot dog spot you're gonna hear about in this episode is Rutt's Hut in Clifton, New Jersey, still going strong and opens seven days a week, which my parents will be very happy to hear. That's a classic Pashman family haunt with deep-fried hot dogs.

• 2:16Dan Pashman?

  My grandfather went there, that's how old-school that place is. Anyway, remember that if there's a reheat you wanna hear, drop me a line at [email protected]. Thanks and enjoy.

• 2:32Dan Pashman?

  How you doing? Hey, how are you?

• 2:35Dan Pashman?

  A few weeks ago, I went to a hot dog joint in Highland Park, Michigan, near Detroit. It's called Red Hotz. They specialize in something called a Coney Island hot dog. Here's a customer named Doug.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  You just know when you get up, you want a Coney.

• 2:49Dan Pashman?

  So you roll out of bed and you're like, "I want a Red Hotz today."

• 2:51Speaker 01

  Exactly, yep. When you get in the mood for a Coney, that's the only thing that's gonna cure it.

• 2:56Dan Pashman?

  And did you grow up eating Conies?

• 2:58Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:59Dan Pashman?

  What are some of your memories of eating Conies as a kid?

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Oh... My grandfather used to take me out and get Conies all the time when I was a kid and... Man, I guess just the messiness of them and, uh... You know, with the onions and everything on it, it's just... I don't know if you can get anything better.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  There we go. You're welcome. Thank you.

• 3:18Speaker 03

  A Coney Island is a hot dog in a hot dog bun layered with a little mustard, chili, and then onions.

• 3:27Dan Pashman?

  This is the owner of Red Hotz, Rich Harland.

• 3:29Speaker 03

  A lot of Coney Islands, they like to put the chili and then the mustard over there, and then the onions, and it looks pretty that way. I'm not here for a pretty hot dog. I'm here for the taste. The mustard is only supposed to enhance the chili, is all it's for. And so I do it the old-fashioned way where the mustard actually goes on first.

• 3:51Dan Pashman?

  Red Hotz has been in Rich's family since it opened back in 1921. One time, a while back, the restaurant was short-staffed, so Rich's wife Carol came in to help out. She's still there. That was 18 years ago.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  People wonder, you know, like I said, in just a couple of weeks, we'll be married almost 39 years, and, you know, now we work every day together. We're with each other every single day, 24 hours a day. How do you do that?

• 4:15Dan Pashman?

  And what do you say?

• 4:16Speaker 02

  I don't pay attention to them.

• 4:21Dan Pashman?

  Rich, is that true?

• 4:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, boy, is that ever.

• 4:25Speaker 03

  That's good though. It worked for us.

• 4:27Dan Pashman?

  Yeah. Over on a stool at the counter, Rich's mom keeps an eye on everything. She's 84. They call her Mean Gene. She remembers this place back in the day when the auto plant down the street cranked out cars 24/7.

• 4:40Speaker 04

  The grill was full of hot dogs all the time because Ford's was right about a block away and they got out of there for a half hour or whatever they got for lunch and they'd run in and out. Boy, that's why those hot dogs would just keep going and going and going.

• 4:56Dan Pashman?

  And they're still going. Today on The Sporkful, we'll take you to two iconic American hot dog joints that have been in business for a combined total of 183 years. And they're both still family owned. What are the pros and cons of running a business with your family?

• 5:13Speaker 05

  The pros and cons? You have a family?

• 5:16Dan Pashman?

  Yeah.

• 5:17Speaker 05

  I think it's self-explanatory.

• 5:20Dan Pashman?

  That's the owner of the other place. Coming up, we'll find out what makes these places special. Plus, Kenji Lopez alt schools us on the science of deep fried hot dogs. Stick around.

• 5:38Dan Pashman?

  From WNYC Studios, this is The Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. So, let's talk a little about Coney Island hot dogs. How did a food that's found in the middle of America get named after a beach in Brooklyn? Well, we get the term hot dog because back in the late 1800s, there were all these rumors that the sausages sold at Coney Island were made from dog meat. Hot dog, get it? The Coney Island Chamber of Commerce, they didn't like those rumors. So in 1913, they banned the use of the term hot dog on all the signs there. Around that time, a lot of Greek immigrants were coming through New York. They were fleeing the Balkan wars. And there were no signs to tell them what to call these sausages that they were encountering.

• 6:23Dan Pashman?

  So they called them Coney Islands. As those immigrants fanned out across the US, the Coney Island hot dog was born. Nowadays, you can find Conys as far south as Texas, but Detroit is really the epicenter. And wherever you go, it's pretty much always chili, mustard, onions. Now, quick disclaimer.

• 6:42Dan Pashman?

  We're not going to get into which place is best. Okay, I'm sure the internet has opinions on that. We wanted to go to Red Hot's because of its history. It's got a unique connection to Detroit's auto industry. It opened in 1921, still owned by the same family, and everything there is still made from scratch. Nothing from a can, as owner Rich Harland told me. He knows. He's been working there most of his life.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  I started here in about 67 as a kid, and been going ever since.

• 7:10Dan Pashman?

  How old are you then, if I may ask?

• 7:12Speaker 03

  I'm 62.

• 7:13Dan Pashman?

  So, okay, now you're making me do math, Richard.

• 7:16Speaker 03

  14, I think I probably started around 14.

• 7:20Speaker 03

  I was the Saturday help.

• 7:21Dan Pashman?

  Okay.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  Washing dishes and stuff like that.

• 7:24Dan Pashman?

  So you started at the bottom, at the equivalent of starting in the mailroom, right?

• 7:27Speaker 03

  Well, let's put it this way. I started as a mopper, and I'm still mopping.

• 7:33Dan Pashman?

  How have the hot dogs, the Conies themselves, changed over the years?

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Really not. They haven't changed in all the years. We are one of the few Conies that still make our chili. And I don't have a story on how or who came up with that chili recipe. I don't think chili is a Greek recipe. We're both Greeks. And so I don't know where that came from.

• 8:03Dan Pashman?

  Rich shows me the chopping block where he dices onions every day. It's probably like three inches thick, but it has a deep indentation in it from so much use over the years. It looks more like a bowl than a board. But you make the chili yourself every day?

• 8:17Speaker 03

  Every day, yes.

• 8:18Dan Pashman?

  Seven days a week?

• 8:19Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 8:20Dan Pashman?

  360 days a year?

• 8:22Speaker 03

  Well, back in its heyday, twice a day.

• 8:25Dan Pashman?

  And how long have you been the one making the chili?

• 8:28Speaker 03

  Oh, probably the last 30 years.

• 8:31Dan Pashman?

  If you lost your eyesight tomorrow, do you think you could still do it? Have you done it enough times?

• 8:35Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, I could still do it.

• 8:40Speaker 03

  I'd do it now, half asleep.

• 8:43Dan Pashman?

  Red Hots is a half a block from the former auto plant where Henry Ford built his famous moving assembly line back in 1913. This is the factory where they made the Model T.

• 8:53Speaker 03

  Back then, years ago, we were open 24/7. We never even had a lock on the door. At 11 o'clock, a whistle would blow and you knew within a couple of minutes Ford employees would come rushing you. And back then, you would put two hot dog, two Conies in a bag and set them there and guys would run in, throw the money on the counter, grab a bag and run.

• 9:16Dan Pashman?

  Because they only had such a short time for lunch.

• 9:18Speaker 03

  Exactly. And what they would do, they would grab the two bags, shoot to the bar, which is across the street, have a shot and a beer, and then run back to the plant and sit in front of the door and eat their lunch and read the paper. Everybody years ago carried a paper underneath their arms. That was their form of finding out what was going on.

• 9:36Dan Pashman?

  I gotta be honest, if I had a shot and a beer and two Conies, I don't know that I could go back to making cars.

• 9:41Speaker 03

  You would if you wanted to keep a job. Because I was told many times if you complained a little bit, they used to walk you over to the window and show you a line, people waiting for a job, and you would say, "I'm sorry", and just go right back to work. So there was a lot of people were looking for work back then, so you couldn't, you know, you didn't want to ruin it.

• 9:59Dan Pashman?

  As today's lunch crowd trickles in, I talked to a customer named Jerry. He's been coming to Red Hots for over 40 years, since he was a kid. His father and grandfather both worked at the Ford plant.

• 10:10Speaker 06

  People had rented apartments and houses around here that three guys slept in the bed because each one had an eight-hour shift at the plant, and then they'd had an eight-hour shift in one bed in an apartment. So that's how jammed it was around here, the population and the demographics back then.

• 10:28Dan Pashman?

  So they would like just sleep and work in cycles?

• 10:30Speaker 06

  Yes, and then you had one eight-hour shift out on the street where you would go to a coffee house or something, then an eight-hour shift in bed and an eight-hour shift in the plant.

• 10:39Dan Pashman?

  Oh, so you had to like go and kill time, basically?

• 10:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 10:42Dan Pashman?

  Because you weren't working, but you couldn't sleep.

• 10:43Speaker 06

  Someone was in your bed, yeah.

• 10:44Dan Pashman?

  Oh, wow.

• 10:45Speaker 06

  Yeah. Those are the stories my dad told me, yeah.

• 10:47Dan Pashman?

  Do you have kids?

• 10:48Speaker 06

  Two boys, and they both come here. Yeah, even when I'm not with them, they'll come down here to have Conies.

• 10:57Dan Pashman?

  Today, that old Ford plant's barely used for anything. It's been designated a national historic landmark. Rich says when the recession hit in 2008, things got really bleak.

• 11:08Speaker 03

  It was terrible. It really was. A lot of businesses had closed up around here. A lot of restaurant people that I knew had to close their doors. And you hate to see a guy lose what he's worked hard for. So, it was tough. It really was. And I cut myself down to one paycheck a month. And the reason I could keep going is I really owed nobody anything. All my stuff was all paid for. If I had a big note to pay, I'd have been in real trouble.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  What did keep us going is our regular customers. They kept us going. And we have generations of people that come in. We have quite a few families that the grandpas and grandmas have started in the 50s. And then, as they have gotten married, they would bring in their kids. And now, they are bringing in their kids. So, we have three and four generations of family that could go to any other place because they could be living a half hour, 45 minutes, an hour away from us, but they decide to come here.

• 12:12Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, it's funny you talk about that because I grew up in New Jersey. And there's a famous hot dog place in New Jersey called Rutt's Hut where they do deep fried hot dogs.

• 12:21Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 12:22Dan Pashman?

  And my grandfather went there. Like, my dad grew up going there. I mean, I don't get to go there. Now, I live pretty far away. I don't get to go as often as I would like. But like, you know, it was the kind of place, like, generation after generation, you take your kids to Rutt's Hut. I mean, that's where we went, the family went, after my grandfather's funeral.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Oh, that's awesome. Yeah.

• 12:43Dan Pashman?

  Even if it's been a long time since you've been there, even if you haven't gone there so many times, it's like, when you know that it has this history in your family, like, it's always going to have a special place. It's kind of, it's almost like when you meet a distant relative, even if you didn't really know them that well, you still sort of feel like you have this connection with them.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 12:57Dan Pashman?

  It's kind of the same thing when you go back to a place.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Right. And we even, we'll get a customer that maybe grew up in Highland Park and hasn't been back in 30 years. And, "Hey, I see you guys are still here. I'm going to come in." And they would take one bite of their coney and go, "Oh, my gosh, it's just like how I tasted."

• 13:15Dan Pashman?

  As for how it tasted to me, the chili may have been the richest, beefiest chili I've ever eaten in my life. And Rich hit the nail on the head because it's about the combo of the mustard and the chili. The mustard with its acidity cuts through that rich fattiness of the chili, and he has it in perfect proportion. And then a little bit of crunch and sharpness from the chopped onions on top. And then you just get that iconic chili dog bite. You know, your teeth are coming down through the chili and it's rich and meaty and you're hitting the bun and it's soft. Everything is soft and juicy and tender. And then you hit the exterior of the hot dog and then your teeth pierce the hot dog. And that just

• 13:56Dan Pashman?

  releases this torrent of hot dog juice and salt and fat and flavor into the bite. And that is just such a special moment, you know? It's right up there with the birth of a child. You know what I'm talking about. So I ate three of those hot dogs because they were amazing. As for the business, these days, things are getting better. Rich and Carol got a really big break. They were on the Food Network show, American Diner Revival. The whole place got a makeover. And the day after the show aired, Red Hots had their busiest day in 20 years. And Carol says they're seeing more new faces. While I was there, a young guy named Jimmy came in with his girlfriend.

• 14:35Speaker 05

  My girlfriend works about a half mile down the road and she wanted to go for lunch. And my father has talked about this place since I was a kid. So we decided to come over here and grab a bite to eat.

• 14:46Dan Pashman?

  But you've never been?

• 14:47Speaker 05

  Nope.

• 14:48Dan Pashman?

  But your dad talked about it?

• 14:49Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 14:49Dan Pashman?

  Your grandfather came here?

• 14:50Speaker 05

  We're from Highland Park and I've somehow just never came. And it's my first time.

• 14:55Dan Pashman?

  And Rich?

• 14:56Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 14:57Dan Pashman?

  You recognize that this guy's family? You know this?

• 14:59Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. No, no, I knew his grandfather. I know his father comes in here. And this is his first time. So we're hoping to lock him in.

• 15:10Dan Pashman?

  So the family tradition continues for the customers and also the owners. Rich and Carol's daughter helps out at the restaurant a lot on the weekends and during the summer. Rest of the year, she teaches special ed. She's set up the restaurant with a Facebook page, but Rich isn't so sure he wants her to take over the business. I mean, it's seven days a week, every week, all year. Last year, not counting major holidays, Rich took three days off. That's including weekends, three days, the whole year. So how much longer does Rich want to be doing this?

• 15:40Speaker 03

  Years ago, I was wondering, we used to have an old, they were all old men, but I had one that was worth probably over a million. He worked here just two, three days a week. He was in his 80s. And I said, Chris, can I ask you something? He said, what do you want, kid? I says, I know financially you're okay. How come you're still working? He says, I'm gonna tell you this once, and I want you to listen to me good. And I says, okay. He says, it's better to wear out than rust out, and don't you ever forget that. When I think of him, I keep grinding away. That's what keeps me going.

• 16:31Dan Pashman?

  I really want to thank Rich, Carol, and me and Gene there at Red Hot's in Highland Park, Michigan. The hot dogs were outstanding, and they were so warm and hospitable. It was great to be there. If you're nearby, it's worth a visit. Coming up, you heard when I was talking to Carol, I told her about the famous New Jersey hot dog joint, the deep fried hot dogs where my family went all the time. After the break, that's where we're headed. And I'm bringing my parents. Stick around.

• 17:08Dan Pashman?

  When you're cooking, ingredients matter, right? You use higher quality ingredients, you usually get better results. And if you're listening to this show, you're probably the kind of person who puts some thought and effort into your ingredients. But ingredients don't just matter with food, they also matter with laundry detergent. Of course, the cleaning job needs to get done, the odors and stains have to be tackled, and I want to feel good about the detergent and the ingredients in it. Because remember, whatever's in your laundry detergent is essentially in your clothes, and then you're putting those clothes on, you want good stuff in there. And All Free Clear uses only essential ingredients. It's 100% free from dyes, perfumes, parabens, and irritating residues. Check out the label and see for yourself, it lists all the ingredients and what they do. We've been using it in my house, we're very happy with it, and let me tell you, family

• 17:49Dan Pashman?

  of four, two teenagers, we do a lot of laundry, so we have put All Free Clear to the test. It's a powerful clean that you can feel good about. All Free Clear is the number one detergent brand recommended by dermatologists for sensitive skin. When it comes to laundry detergent, the choice is clear, All Free Clear. Pick up a bottle for your next laundry day. Make holiday hosting effortless with Boars Head Sweet Slice Uncured Ham. It's the perfect centerpiece for gathering family and friends around the holiday table. Hand-packed into netting, Sweet Slice Uncured Ham has the look of a traditional holiday ham with rich flavor worth savoring. Slow-roasted and delicately smoked, boneless Sweet Slice Uncured Ham delivers classic bone-in flavor made for the moments that bring everyone together.

• 18:32Dan Pashman?

  Find Sweet Slice Uncured Ham at your nearest Boars Head deli. And for holiday entertaining inspiration, recipes, and more, visit boarshead.com. I grew up on Lando Lakes cheese. I still remember going to the supermarket deli counter with my mom and her ordering Lando Lakes American cheese. And now, Lando Lakes cheese and butter are a huge part of my home. There are so many easy weeknight recipes using Lando Lakes cheese and butter that bring delicious restaurant taste right to your table. From chicken parm to weeknight shrimp pad Thai, Lando Lakes has plenty of quick dishes that'll have the whole dinner table talking. Visit landolakes.com/reцепes/collection for easy weeknight dinners.

• 19:11Dan Pashman?

  For a long time, I did not understand the point of vests. Like, why not just have a jacket? That covers your arms, too. But something clicked for me. I think I got gifted a vest and now I am obsessed with vests. And it just adds that little bit of toastiness. And I got this new Quince Packable Puffer Vest. I love that you can just squish it up and shove it in the bottom of your bag. That way you have it with you all day. If it gets a little chilly, break out the vest. I also got a Quince Down Quilted Vest. It is so soft and cozy. They make them for men and women. And as with everything you get at Quince, they focus on high-quality staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold, and Italian leather. These are all timeless, versatile pieces that feel special to unwrap and become everyday favorites long after the holidays.

• 19:54Dan Pashman?

  Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was The Sporkful. It's the best way to support the show.

• 20:22Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to a Sporkful Reheat. I'm Dan Pashman. Hey, if you're not already following The Sporkful in your podcasting app, what are you waiting for? In Apple Podcasts and Spotify, go to our show page and click Follow. In other apps, it might be like a plus sign, or a subscribe button, or a heart. Whatever it is in your podcasting app, please do that thing. It's the best way to ensure you'll never miss an episode, and it's good for our show. So please, go ahead and do it right now while you're listening. Thanks. So, back to hot dogs. Rutz Hut in Clifton, New Jersey is just across the Hudson River from New York City. But you went there, let me tell you, you wouldn't feel like you were anywhere near Manhattan, okay? Rutz has been there since 1928, and it's famous for its deep-fried hot dogs. More on them in a minute. Now, I grew up in New Jersey.

• 21:06Dan Pashman?

  My father and my grandfather grew up in New Jersey. In fact, I have a photo of my grandfather in the parking lot of Rutz Hut in 1936 or 37. I'll post it on sporkful.com. He was a judge, so we called him Judgey, as you'll hear when we talk about him. And so Rutz Hut has always been a special place for my family. But my parents and I haven't been there in years, because I live way out on Long Island. They live in New England. But a few weeks ago, when they were in town, we all made the pilgrimage. You know, when you go back to a place like that, it brings up a lot of memories. Like this story my mom told about the time she and my dad came to Rutz after she'd been in the hospital.

• 21:40Speaker 04

  And we stopped here afterwards for a hot dog, because it was sort of like a treat, like some people suffer an ice cream cone. We went into the stand.

• 21:49Dan Pashman?

  Wait, when was this?

• 21:50Speaker 04

  This is before you were born.

• 21:52Dan Pashman?

  Okay.

• 21:53Speaker 04

  So we went into the stand and started eating my hot dog, and I didn't feel right. I thought I was gonna pass out. So Dad walked me to the car and told me to put my head, and I put my head down, and I'm waiting, and I think he's gonna come around to the other side of the car and get in. I'm waiting, I'm waiting, and finally I look up, he's not there. He went back in to finish my hot dog. I couldn't believe it. I thought at least he would put it in a bag for me.

• 22:26Dan Pashman?

  Dad, your comment?

• 22:30Speaker 06

  Well, I wasn't gonna leave it.

• 22:38Dan Pashman?

  My cousin Andy joined us, too. He works nearby. He's older than me, so he has more memories of coming to Rutz as a kid.

• 22:44Speaker 06

  This started out being a Sunday family place, where one of the places we would meet was here on Sunday. And we could meet at a very fancy place, like Gene Boyle's on Passaic Ave, or we could meet here on a Sunday evening.

• 22:54Dan Pashman?

  And by "we," who's in that crowd?

• 22:56Speaker 06

  Our family. So it would be my mom, my dad, Scott, your mom, your dad, even before your mom was around, and Judgey and Gammy, my grandmother and my grandfather. And this was one of the regular rotation spots on Sunday. So it was unusual for me to start coming here with my kids. The way I started coming with my kids was whenever we'd go to the circus, or Disney on Ice, or something like that, my kids got turned on to this place.

• 23:21Dan Pashman?

  I gotta say, I don't really remember those Sunday dinners that Andy talked about. I asked my mom if maybe I was there, but I was just too young to remember.

• 23:30Speaker 04

  I have to figure out the math, how young you might have been coming here. Okay.

• 23:34Dan Pashman?

  Go on.

• 23:35Speaker 06

  Trying to think that, um, how old you were when Judgey died. So.

• 23:40Dan Pashman?

  That's how you're gonna do the math? Why don't you start with when I was born?

• 23:42Speaker 06

  Seventy-six.

• 23:44Dan Pashman?

  I was born in seventy-seven.

• 23:45Speaker 06

  Seventy-seven. That's what I was saying. Okay, you're gonna edit all this, right?

• 23:49Dan Pashman?

  Oh, it's gonna sound great in the end. Don't worry.

• 23:53Dan Pashman?

  That means no.

• 23:57Dan Pashman?

  Now, let's skip ahead to the ordering of the hot dogs. See, Mom, I told you we'd edit this. But wait, before we get to the ordering, we gotta talk about your options at Rutz Hut. And to do that, we have to talk about what happens to a hot dog when you deep fry it. At Rutz, like at other places famous for deep fried hot dogs, the dogs are not battered. You just take a hot dog and throw it in hot oil. I asked food science guru and friend of the show Kenji Lopez Alt to explain what happens next.

• 24:24Speaker 06

  So the first thing is that if the hot dog has a casing, um, what happens is that the meat inside starts to expand. And eventually it expands so much that it rips that casing apart. This is actually done intentionally in some places. I mean, I know they call them rippers at Rutz Hut and a couple other places. If you try and deep fry a hot dog with no casing, on the other hand, which some places do, um, they don't rip open. So that that's one reason why you might want a casing, because you get that sort of textural contrast. It ends up with sort of craggy nooks and crannies inside, and those can crisp up nicely.

• 24:53Dan Pashman?

  Kenji says some hot dogs are better for deep frying than others.

• 24:57Speaker 06

  Beef fat is much firmer than pork fat is. Pork fat has a lower melting temperature. So that means that when you drop a hot dog into a deep fryer, a beef hot dog, there's gonna be less of a textural contrast between that crispy outside and sort of the softer interior. A beef and pork hot dog, on the other hand, um, you will get sort of an almost creamy texture on the inside. The part that isn't directly exposed to the oil. Rutz Hut, I believe, uses Thumann's brand hot dogs, which are a German-style pork and beef sausage with a natural casing. And that's why, you know, they burst open as they cook, and they have that sort of textural contrast between crisp and creamy.

• 25:32Dan Pashman?

  Yes, yes, yes. And when you order at Rutz Hut, you have to tell them how crispy you want it. The standard, if you just say, I want a hot dog, you'll get what's called a ripper, like Kenji said. That's sort of like medium rare on the spectrum. That's the default. I asked Bill Chrysophinus, whose family owns Rutz, to lay out the other options.

• 25:51Speaker 05

  We have what we call an in-and-out-er. And the other extreme would be a cremator, which is essentially a petrified hot dog. That's what the extremes are.

• 25:59Dan Pashman?

  And what are the options in the middle?

• 26:01Speaker 05

  Well, then you have medium. You have a weller, which is more well-done. And there's different variations within that, you know?

• 26:06Dan Pashman?

  Now, I'm kind of a weller guy.

• 26:08Speaker 05

  Right.

• 26:08Dan Pashman?

  Where do you fall on the spectrum?

• 26:10Speaker 05

  I'm more of a weller guy as well, you know?

• 26:12Dan Pashman?

  Yeah. But the cremator, like, to me, is just a little bit... You lose a little bit of the meat, I feel like.

• 26:16Speaker 05

  There is no... A true cremator has no meat substance. You know, that's why I bang the counter, so they know that's what they're getting.

• 26:23Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 26:24Speaker 05

  You know, but there's people that come here that get that regularly, you know? Somebody that walks off the street for the first time and says, "I want a cremator." It's not a true interpretation of what the dog is. It's the extreme. You don't go, you know, jumping off a cliff your first shot, right?

• 26:39Dan Pashman?

  We'll have more with Bill in a minute. But back at the table with my parents and my cousin Andy, it was time to order. I'll take a weller. I got two wellers. They each had a regular ripper. My mom insisted on onion rings. Then my dad reached way back into his childhood for his drink order. Thank you.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  And you want a Marvis? Yes, I want a Marvis.

• 26:57Dan Pashman?

  What's a Marvis again?

• 26:58Speaker 03

  Yoohoo.

• 26:59Dan Pashman?

  You're gonna have a Yoohoo?

• 27:01Speaker 03

  It's a Yoohoo, which was Yogi Berra and Phil Rizzuto.

• 27:05Dan Pashman?

  Wow. You're really... This is really taking... When's the last time you had a Yoohoo, Dad?

• 27:09Speaker 03

  Oh, goodness. I've had one since I've been here, but it's still been a long time.

• 27:15Dan Pashman?

  At Rutz's Hut, they call Yoohoo Marvis or Movis because apparently that was the name of a similar local chocolate drink way back in the day.

• 27:25Dan Pashman?

  They also call orange soda a Howdy after Howdy Doody, who had orange hair. If you're too young to know Howdy Doody, let's just say it was on TV so long ago that duty didn't mean duty yet. Anyway, pretty soon after we ordered, the food arrived. Wow.

• 27:45Dan Pashman?

  All right, I'll have a sip of Yoohoo. Oh, my God, that is really good. Forgot how good Yoohoo is.

• 27:53Dan Pashman?

  All right, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Rutz's is also famous for their homemade relish. It's a sweet yellow relish with chopped onions, no pickles, and it is the perfect complement to mustard. Oh, these are so good. Let's do... Let's go around the table. First of all, what do you think of the hot dogs tonight?

• 28:13Speaker 05

  Hot dogs are excellent. The one thing they are here is consistent.

• 28:18Dan Pashman?

  Never any different. It always tastes like what you expect it to taste. Mom?

• 28:24Speaker 04

  Delicious. It's been so long.

• 28:27Dan Pashman?

  Dad?

• 28:27Speaker 03

  I disagree with Andy. It's delicious, but the memory is always better.

• 28:34Dan Pashman?

  So you're a little older now and the hot dogs aren't quite as amazing?

• 28:38Speaker 03

  No, they're still great, but in memory, they'll never be as good.

• 28:45Dan Pashman?

  Mom, response?

• 28:46Speaker 04

  I disagree. I think they're better because I love the relish. There's something about that sweet relish and the crunchy hot dog and the onion rings. It's special.

• 28:56Dan Pashman?

  Dad, response?

• 28:57Speaker 03

  No response.

• 29:03Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, it was pretty great. While I was there, like I said, I wanted to talk to Bill Christofinos, whose family owns Rutt's. They bought the place back in 1974, but part of the deal was that they had to work there and train under Mr. Rutt. He wouldn't turn the place over to Bill's family until he was sure they could make the hot dogs just like he made them. Eventually, Mr. Rutt was satisfied, and so were the customers.

• 29:28Speaker 05

  The beauty of the establishment is you have a lot of nostalgia, people with multiple generations like yourself, you know, coming here, bringing their kids, the kids are bringing their kids, you know, four or five generations. You know, everyone always points to that kid counter in the back there, say, "Oh, I used to eat there when I was a kid." You know, now they're with their grandkids. I mean, it's a very homey feeling for people when they come here, you know, and the beauty is that when they walk in, even if you haven't been here for 50 years, you bite into that ripper, man. It takes you back 50 years. I see it in their eyes. It's like, wow, nothing changed. You come here, 20 years from now, it's going to be the same, you know? If it's taken care of the right way, like we take care of it now, our children will be here working if they want to.

• 30:08Dan Pashman?

  Do you have kids?

• 30:09Speaker 05

  Yes, one boy.

• 30:10Dan Pashman?

  And has he come here and helped out sometimes?

• 30:13Speaker 05

  He's 11 years old, but when they come here, they grab a towel and they wipe the counters, you know? I tell them all the time, I was 13 years old, bussing tables over here when my father bought the place, working with waitresses that were here 50 years.

• 30:24Dan Pashman?

  Are you looking forward to your son working here more?

• 30:28Speaker 05

  No, I'm indifferent to that. I mean, I wouldn't deter my child from it. You know, our parents wanted us to go to school, get education, stay out of the business. Because they came from, you know, Greece with nothing and they worked their, you know, asses off to get to where they are. So they wanted it to be, you know, a better life for us would be go to school, wear a shirt and a tie and work, you know, five days instead of seven days or six days or, you know.

• 30:50Dan Pashman?

  So knowing that that's what your parents hoped for you, how does it feel that?

• 30:56Speaker 05

  Well, we all went to school, got our education, but somehow, some way, twist of faith, we wound up in the business. I worked on Wall Street, but you know what? I came back to this.

• 31:04Dan Pashman?

  What'd you do on Wall Street?

• 31:05Speaker 05

  I was a stockbroker. I didn't care for that.

• 31:07Dan Pashman?

  Yeah.

• 31:07Speaker 05

  Called my father, said, "I'm done."

• 31:10Dan Pashman?

  Why? What do you like about this better?

• 31:12Speaker 05

  You know, being a stockbroker, you have to sit and talk to people that, you know, don't believe 90% of the stuff that's coming out of your mouth. Working on this counter here, no matter what I tell somebody, they know it's the God's honest truth. I'm not a salesman. I would never want to be a salesman. I made that commitment 20 years ago when I said I'm not being a stockbroker. So I'm going to sell something that I believe in, and I believe in the product. And that's the truth.

• 31:46Dan Pashman?

  Thanks to Bill and everyone at Rutt's Hut, and to my parents and my cousin Andy. That trip reminded me that I gotta get my kids to Rutt's Hut. My older daughter was there in utero, but I gotta get both of them there for real because they love them some hot dogs. Also, thanks to our friend Kenji Lopez-Alt. He writes the Food Lab column at Serious Eats. He's also the author of the excellent cookbook, The Food Lab: Better Home Cooking Through Science. Two quick reminders. First, send us your questions about etiquette relating to summer eating and drinking. Maybe it's barbecues, beach, food festival, wherever you're at, you got issues of etiquette, email them to me, [email protected]. Also, Sporkful Live at the Taste of Chicago, Saturday, July 9th, 1 p.m. at the Podcast Tent. Free show, open to everyone, all ages. See you there.

• 32:31Dan Pashman?

  This show is a production of WNYC Studios and The Sporkful. It's produced by me and Anne Sanney. We get editing help from Shoshana Gold, engineering help from Chase Colpin, music help from Black Label Music. Special thanks to Paula Schuman. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 32:45Speaker 04

  And I'm Susan Morville from Ann Arbor, Michigan. And I'm Brittany from Rahway, New Jersey, reminding you to eat more. Eat better. Eat more better.

• 33:14Dan Pashman?

  This reheat was produced by

• 33:15Speaker 04

  Kiana Palmer.

• 33:17Dan Pashman?

  The team that produces The Sporkful today includes me along with managing producer

• 33:20Speaker 04

  Emma Morgenstern.

• 33:21Dan Pashman?

  And senior producer Andres O'Hara. Our engineer is Jared O'Connell. The Sporkful is a production of Stitcher Studios. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? And there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 34:02Speaker 04

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