RE-AIR: Independent, Industrious, Badass & Brave, the Heroine of Greek Myth, Arcadian Atalanta

This episode originally aired March 22, 2022. Atalanta: the heroine of ancient Greece. Or, was it heroines? There are two Atalantas, sometimes conflated into one, other times separate. One fought the Calydonian boar, wrestled Peleus, and generally kicked ass. The other lost a foot race, distracted by a golden apple. CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing. Sources: Theoi.com entry on Atalanta, including Aelian, Apollodorus, Apollonios, and others; Early Greek Myths by Timothy Gantz. Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions http://mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about Liv's next group trips https://travelbugxlivalbert.my.canva.site/ to GREECE! Application deadline is November 30 (Subject to change due to demand). Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Liv Albert?

  Hey nerds, really quick note from me. I want to tell you that we now have the applications open for the next set of listener group trips. This is us going back to the original, the trips that we have held in the past that have been so much fun, so successful, and pretty affordable in terms of wandering around Greece with a bunch of nerds. So, check out the details and get your applications in at mythsbaby.com/groups.

• 0:47Speaker 01

  Hi folks, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. The new Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives: Orange County, is coming to Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus, November 12th. Jen Affleck leads a new group of women with the hope of forming a sense of community, but moral divides threaten to tear the group apart. Watch the new Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives: Orange County, on November 12th. Streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  Some travelers want the charm of an independent hotel. Others want the confidence of a trusted global brand. With Series by Marriott, you get both. Each property is uniquely connected to its destination, delivering local experiences and memorable stays, while being backed by the quality, reliability, and Marriott Bonvoy benefits travelers know and trust. Experience the destination without the compromise. Series by Marriott is part of Marriott Bonvoy. Book direct at Marriott.com or on the Marriott Bonvoy app.

• 1:54Liv Albert?

  Thanks to Acast for hosting and monetizing the podcast.

• 2:17Liv Albert?

  Today's episode is brought to you by Quince. You know the ones. I've been raving about them for ages. But now is the time of year when you might consider gifting Quince to the people in your life. There's nothing quite like having pieces in your closet that you love and you know you can count on for any occasion, except maybe giving someone else that same feeling. So this holiday season, think Quince. Quince, you know, makes elevated everyday essentials using premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and premium stretch denim, the kind of pieces you'd be just as happy gifting as you would be to unwrap. You all know I love all of the stuff I have from Quince. I'm actually

• 2:59Liv Albert?

  traveling in Greece right now and I have my go-to woven leather bag. I seriously use it everywhere. That's why it's with me here. It's beautiful and it's practical and it's from Quince. And I actually have a parcel to pick up when I when I get back home, which has some goodies in there. I got this pair of corduroy high-rise pants. I'm really excited to try those out as soon as I get home. And everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you can give luxury quality pieces without the luxury price tag. So give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go

• 3:43Liv Albert?

  to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Let's Talk About Myths, baby. It's the best way to support the show.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Hi folks, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. The new Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives: Orange County, is coming to Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus, November 12. Jen Affleck leads a new group of women with the hope of forming a sense of community, but moral divides threaten to tear the group apart. Watch the new Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives: Orange County, on November 12, streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Some travelers want the charm of an independent hotel. Others want the confidence of a trusted global brand. With Series by Marriott, you get both. Each property is uniquely connected to its destination, delivering local experiences and memorable stays, while being backed by the quality, reliability, and Marriott Bonvoy benefits travelers know and trust. Experience the destination without the compromise. Series by Marriott is part of Marriott Bonvoy. Book direct at marriott.com or on the Marriott Bonvoy app.

• 5:09Liv Albert?

  Hello, hello, hello. This is Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! And I, I am Liv, your host and person who loves to obsessively research myths, sometimes to a fault. Hey, remember the old days of the podcast when I used to just do the bare minimum research? Bit of Wikipedia here, one myth retelling book by a man there. The old days, how I cringe. Grateful for them and the listeners that still love those days, but man, how I cringe now. And I still get reviews that are like, OMG, this woman just cannot research to save her life, and I just want to scream back at them. But I digress. Today is a very good example of the lesser research I used to do,

• 5:53Liv Albert?

  because today, I am revisiting the single-acknowledged official heroine of ancient Greece: Atalanta. Now, I've covered Atalanta's story before, and not even in the earliest days of this podcast, but still, the comparison between then and now in terms of my research abilities and my love for a detailed retelling are miles apart. Atalanta had a mini-myth, a mini-myth, for the number one heroine of ancient Greece. What a fucking travesty.

• 6:24Liv Albert?

  Thus, here we are, in the tail end of Women's History Month, looking back at Atalanta, and what makes her the single acknowledged official ancient Greek heroine? Maybe not the only one? Because Atalanta deserves it. When I originally shared the story of Atalanta, I shared her most famous anecdotes, moments from her life, but in fact, this heroine of Greek myth appears in many places, in many forms, over many, many generations. Today, we're looking at her from across the Greek world and across time, but mostly,

• 7:03Liv Albert?

  we're looking at Atalanta as not just Atalanta, but the Atalantas? Because Atalanta was born in Arcadia, or she was born in Biocia. See, there are two stories of Atalanta from these two different regions, maybe even two distinct Atalantas, heroines of Greek mythology. First, a brief geography lesson. I won't go into detail on these two regions that claim Atalanta as their own, Biocia and Arcadia. I will just explain the most important thing. They are not that close to each other. These regions are not neighbors. They weren't sharing stories because of their close proximity or shared heritage.

• 7:46Liv Albert?

  They are actually pretty far away from each other, as far as mainland Greece is concerned. Arcadia is in the middle of the Peloponnesian peninsula, and Biocia is north of Attica. In the past, when I've read about this, looked at it at a glance, my assumption was that these were just two regions that wanted to claim this heroine. She did impressive things, she was a strong woman with a unique story, which we'll get to, and they both wanted to say that she was theirs. That seems the easiest solution, and it's certainly one that fits with the wider world of Greek myth, the way these things operated. Heracles, after all, is a hero of so, so, so many locations, because everyone wanted to claim him in some way. He's from Thebes, he's from Tiryns, he's from Trachis.

• 8:31Liv Albert?

  So why not the same for Atalanta? Well, backstory, and her story in general suggests that maybe, just maybe, this wasn't a case of two regions wanting to claim this woman, but in fact, two heroines, two notable women doing notable things, both named Atalanta. And these women maybe got molded together over time. This actually serves to strengthen the story of one of them and make the other a different sort, interesting all the same. And Atalanta, by the way, means of equal strength. I want to believe it means specifically of equal strength with men, and my beloved

• 9:13Liv Albert?

  theoi.com says that's possible, that perhaps it was a reference to all the success she or they had against men. And credit where it's due, the reason I'm going to look at these two distinct ideas of Atalanta, tell their stories as two distinct women, is because of the set of books Early Greek Myths by Timothy Gantz. Ugh, he examines the sources and has compelling arguments for separating these two. Plus, it really adds to the stories, but I won't give it all away just yet.

• 9:55Liv Albert?

  This is episode 160. Independent, industrious, badass, and brave, the heroine of ancient Greek myth, Arcadian Atalanta.

• 10:20Liv Albert?

  Today is about the first Atalanta, the Arcadian Atalanta, who was born to a man named Iasos and a woman named Clymini.

• 10:31Liv Albert?

  Iasos was the son of the king of Arcadia, Lykorgos, but he wasn't the firstborn. Regardless of his own status, Iasos wanted a boy. We don't know why he wanted a boy, but we can certainly infer. This bit of Atalanta's story, her birth and origins, are basically only told in the work by Pseudo-Apollodorus, a man who was fairly late in the period and who was really deeply brief. I always forget who it was on Twitter that I saw call him the TLDR of Greek myth, but it's just so accurate.

• 11:06Liv Albert?

  Still, he's often the only source we have for stories because, though he was brief in the stories themselves, he was thorough in the number that he covered in his Library of Greek Myth. But he was also biased by his time, which we'll get to. Iasos wants a son, and so when his wife, Climene, gives birth to a daughter, instead, he turns to Greek mythology's most troubling tradition. He exposes the baby on a mountainside, specifically, says the ancient source Elean, "a mountain called Parthenion." This is important because, well, it means virgin. Now, Iasos may not have directly exposed his daughter, or he had someone do it, but

• 11:50Liv Albert?

  according to some, he actually specifically gave the baby to someone to straight-up kill, not just expose, and that person was instead the one who exposed Atalanta instead. You know, just to be nice, I guess. Now, just a note that I did specifically say this was Greek mythology's most troubling tradition, not actual ancient Greece, there's been some interesting scholarship recently about what the Greeks actually did and did not do with their babies, mostly in reference to disabled children. And the basic answer is they did not routinely expose them or have them killed. Still, when it comes to their myths, it's the perfect plot device. It serves to solidify a child's parentage, like Atalanta as the daughter of Iasos and

• 12:35Liv Albert?

  Climene, while also giving them a more intense backstory and a will to survive. It makes the children more interesting, stronger, complex. It's really just a good narrative device to move the story along and put characters where they need to be.

• 12:52Liv Albert?

  Because in the case of Atalanta, that she is exposed on this mountainside, left to the elements and the wild animals is exactly what makes her who she is. Atalanta, as this baby left on a hillside, is not killed by the elements, she's not eaten or maimed by wild animals. No, she is found by a mother bear and taken in. Here we get details from other sources. Atalanta was found not only by a mother bear, but a mother bear whose babies had been killed by hunters. The bear was full of milk and had the instinct to help and feed babies, and so when she came upon the baby Atalanta, her instincts took over.

• 13:37Liv Albert?

  She fed and cared for Atalanta. But the same hunters who had killed her babies kept watch over her, and eventually the hunters snuck in and stole Atalanta away. Which is a great way to explain how Atalanta then found herself with humans once more, but oh my god, this poor mother bear. It's even sadder in the source, but I can't deal with sad animal stories.

• 14:02Liv Albert?

  Still, Atalanta is now being raised by humans once more, but she has this wild origin, being suckled and fed, cared for by a mother bear. This is what makes her special. As she grows up, out in the woods, under the care of hunters, she unsurprisingly takes a liking to Artemis. She begins to live her life like the goddess, determining that she doesn't want to marry, doesn't want a man, and as the translations will tell you, she remained a virgin. But as I will remind you, again, what that means in the ancient world is, it doesn't mean she didn't have sex, or that she didn't love women, or women and men, or no one at all. It just means she didn't marry. The stories won't tell of sex, because it wasn't part of her narrative,

• 14:47Liv Albert?

  but like Artemis, you can take from Atalanta what you want. You might even re-listen to an episode from last year's Pride Month where I spoke with Julie Levy about potentially an a-romantic or asexual characters in Greek mythology. Atalanta among them.

• 15:03Liv Albert?

  Atalanta lived in the wild, established herself as a talented hunter and independent and happy woman. The source that gives us details is a man named Elian, not one I come across often. He's a late source, like first or second century CE, and primarily concerned with history, but he seems to speak a lot about Atalanta, and I love it. Elian describes where she lives when she's grown up. Where she lives, it seems, all alone. And it's so beautiful. I want to share some of it, so this is a slightly altered and abridged quote from Elian. Atalanta lived in a large and very deep cave, at the entrance, protected by a sheer drop.

• 15:45Liv Albert?

  Ivy encircled it, the ivy gently twined itself around trees and climbed up them. Crocuses grew and hyacinths and flowers of many other colors. There were many laurels, their evergreen leaves so agreeable to look at, and vines with their luxuriant clusters of grapes flourished in front of the cave as proof of Atalanta's industry. A continuous stream of water ran by, it flowed in generous and lavish quantity. The spot was full of charm and suggested the dwelling of a dignified and chaste maiden. Atalanta slept on the skins of animals caught in the hunt, she lived on their meat and drank

• 16:30Liv Albert?

  water, she wore simple clothes in a style that did not fall short of Artemis's example. She claimed the goddess as her model both in this and in her wish to remain a virgin. She was very fleet of foot and no wild animal or man with designs on her could have easily escaped her, and when she wanted to escape, no one could have caught her. Atalanta was living the dream.

• 17:14Liv Albert?

  After Elean describes where Atalanta lives, in the depths of a mountain cave that sounds like an actual dream home, he goes on to describe her appearance. And if Atalanta isn't Elean's manic pixie dream girl, then I don't know what she is. I don't want to focus on her appearance, because guess what, doesn't matter. But Elean's notes on her are wild. He talks about her being strong and masculine, that she exercises all the time, and her body is banging. He then describes her hair and complexion and makes such a point of saying it's all natural, and none of it comes about by any feminine wiles. No, no trickery here, she's born with it.

• 17:55Liv Albert?

  It is a long and detailed description of a woman who literally could never be real, but he is describing her not as a mythological ideal, but as a real woman, who basically put all others to shame. Like, he literally says that exposure to the sun made it look like she was always blushing, and that, what's sexier than a woman raised to be modest? Ew. Still, it truly doesn't matter what she looked like. What matters was that she was so fucking cool. Pausanias, who traveled around the Greek world and liked to find things that he could attribute to mythological backstories, says that there's a stream there in Arcadia that they say sprung from the earth when Atalanta, thirsty from her hunt,

• 18:36Liv Albert?

  struck the ground with her spear. From the spot burst the spring, giving her and anyone else the fresh drinking water that they needed.

• 18:46Liv Albert?

  I'm sorry, but a woman in ancient Greece and Greek mythology who was breastfed and cared by a bear, and then raised in a mountain cave that looks like a plantogram dream home, who does what she wants, who can hit the ground and cause a spring to appear, who wears what she wants, associates with who she wants, and hunts and runs around the woods like the goddess Artemis, Atalanta is the absolute fucking coolest.

• 19:11Liv Albert?

  But, well, this is Greek mythology, so obviously there's going to be a downside to this story of a strong and independent woman living her best life.

• 19:21Liv Albert?

  The first sign of trouble for Atalanta, but the one she dealt with easily, was when she was attacked by two centaurs. They came upon her in the night. They'd plotted to find her, to assault her. They were her neighbors, living in the same woods as Atalanta and stalking her like creepy half-horse serial killers. But she could not be snuck up upon. She would not be taken easily. She sensed them, or saw them, or heard them, immediately. And in a split second, she had shot them both through with her arrows, killing them both dead. Which should lead us, and everyone hearing Atalanta's story, to question how and why she could then be so famously taken down by a fucking golden apple?

• 20:05Liv Albert?

  Well, we'll get there. That might not be her fate after all.

• 20:11Liv Albert?

  Atalanta has proved her worth among hunters and heroes, so when the opportunity for further heroism comes along, Atalanta is included among the list of heroes set to partake. There's two instances of this, one much more detailed than the other. First, the quest for the golden fleece. Atalanta is sometimes among the heroes called upon to go in search of the golden fleece, far off to the east in that place we all know so well after all these years, Colchis. And it's led by the man who we all love to hate, not quite the worst, but a very close second, Jason. But interestingly, sometimes Atalanta is allowed

• 20:54Liv Albert?

  on the Argo, and sometimes she isn't. Apollonius, the most famous author of the quest for the golden fleece, the man who wrote the epic, the Argonautica, that I've read on the podcast, he doesn't allow Atalanta on board. In fact, quite specifically, she is not allowed. She is called upon, yes, and then she really, really, really wants to go. But apparently, Jason thinks it will cause trouble to have a woman on board. Someone's gonna fall in love with her. It just can't be. Thanks, Jason. Meanwhile, in the versions by Apollodorus, she's listed among the men. There are very few details of her inclusion, but we know that she was there.

• 21:38Liv Albert?

  And honestly, that's cool enough. Still, what detail we do have is that at the funeral games for Pelias, that's Pelias with an A, the man who'd set them on the quest for the fleece in the first place, not Pelias with an E, who she wrestled at these funeral games and who is Achilles' father. And not only did she wrestle Pelias, but she won. Still, the most famous story of Atalanta's heroism, the reason she gets to be included amongst the list of ancient Greek heroes, is of course, the famed Caledonian boar hunt.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  Hi folks, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. The new Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives: Orange County, is coming to Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus, November 12th. Jen Affleck leads a new group of women with the hope of forming a sense of community, but moral divides threaten to tear the group apart. Watch the new Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives: Orange County, on November 12th. Streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 23:00Speaker 03

  Hey guys, it is Pablo Torre from Pablo Torre Finds Out. And as a journalist, I like to think I have the answers. But every holiday season, gifting makes me think otherwise. Getting it right feels impossible and can get quite stressful. But thankfully, Sephora takes a lot of the pressure off. Whether you're shopping for a beauty expert, a skincare lover, or someone who is just hard to shop for, Sephora's got it all. The big assist comes from Sephora's expert beauty advisors, who remove the guesswork with personalized recommendations so you can find something thoughtful and useful for the people on your list. Beauty is a gift anyone can give. So this holiday season, shop gifts at Sephora and give something beautiful.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  Some travelers want the charm of an independent hotel. Others want the confidence of a trusted global brand. With Series by Marriott, you get both. Each property is uniquely connected to its destination, delivering local experiences and memorable stays, while being backed by the quality, reliability, and Marriott Bonvoy benefits travelers know and trust. Experience the destination without the compromise. Series by Marriott is part of Marriott Bonvoy. Book direct at Marriott.com or on the Marriott Bonvoy app.

• 24:37Liv Albert?

  While Atalanta is off living her absolute best life in Arcadia, there's a familiar king in Caledon who's causing himself some grief. Aeneas, the king of Caledon and father of none other than our newest favorite woman, Dionera. He had forgotten to thank Artemis, Artemis specifically, in his sacrifice in thanks for a recent harvest. And while we all know the gods are a petty bunch, Artemis gets angry with Aeneas for this, and in response, she sends a boar to terrorize Caledon.

• 25:18Liv Albert?

  Now, the boar of ancient Greece are much, much scarier than you might imagine. For one, wild boar in general are supremely dangerous, even if I, as a West Coast Canadian, see them mostly as large and angry swine. If I've learned anything from playing endless amounts of Assassin's Creed Odyssey, though, it's that these boar are super dangerous and can do a hell of a lot of damage. And that Caledonian boar is not just any terrible ancient boar, but one sent by the goddess of the wild, goddess of the hunt, Artemis. So needless to say, it's going to be a tricky beast to kill. Knowing this, the king of Caledon, Dionera's dad, sends out for the heroes of Greece.

• 26:02Liv Albert?

  According to Apollodorus, the heroes that assemble in Caledon upon Aeneas's call are as follows. First, Aeneas's own son and brother to Dionera, whose name might have caused you to wonder in those recent Trachinius episodes, Meliager. Yes, the brother of Dionera is this same Meliager of Atalanta's story. Then, Drius, a son of Ares, Aides and Lincaeus from Messine, Castor and Polydeukes from Sparta, Theseus, yes, ugh, Theseus from Athens, Adamatos from Phiari, and Caius and Cepheus from Arcadia, Jason, ugh, yes, Jason from Iolcus, Iphicles from Thebes, Pirathus from Larissa,

• 26:45Liv Albert?

  Peleus from Phthia, yes, Achilles's dad, who she wrestled, Telemon from Salamis, and finally, our girl, Atalanta, from Arcadia.

• 26:57Liv Albert?

  Heroes from all over the Greek world, far and wide, travel to Caledon in response for Aeneas's call to, in defeating this boar that's ravaging his region.

• 27:09Liv Albert?

  Now, like the quest of the Argonauts, there are variations on who traveled to Caledon, depending on your sources. But frankly, I much prefer this version, where Atalanta is about to specifically be more impressive than people like Peleus, father of Achilles, and Theseus, and his even more horrible friend Pirathus, and even Jason. It's much, much more satisfying than versions with less memorable names attached.

• 27:37Liv Albert?

  Aeneus, who, by the way, it's just hard, his name is spelled O-I-N-E-U-S? It doesn't matter. He gathers the heroes together, Atalanta included, and he hosts them for a week of feasting and celebration, before they then go out in search of the Caledonian boar. But during this time, there's a couple of men who take issue with the fact that they are expected to hunt the boar alongside, blech, ew, gross, a woman. The horror. Still, there's a man who is willing to stand up for Atalanta and tell the guys to suck it, to just accept that they will be hunting alongside her. Aeneus's own son, Dionera's brother, Meliager.

• 28:24Liv Albert?

  Except, according to Apollodorus, Meliagor does this explicitly because he not only wants to have sex with Atalanta, but very specifically, he wants her to have his baby. And also, he already has a wife who's already given him babies. Nice guy, definitely gave him way too much credit when I first told Atalanta's story. Serves me right to think there's examples of halfway decent dudes in Greek myth. Still, after this partying, and feasting, and hosting by Aeneas, the heroes head out to hunt the boar. And for details on this bit, we will turn now to my man Ovid, who is really the only one who gives us details on the hunt itself.

• 29:06Liv Albert?

  That the hunt took place is clear from much, much earlier sources, mythology, pottery, but they don't describe it in detail. We just know there was a Caledonian boar hunt, and it was hunted by these heroes, Atalanta was involved, and ultimately, the boar was indeed hunted. Ovid, though, tells us how it happened. "Off the group went, deep into the woods of Caledon, where they know the boar is raging." Quote, "There this band of valiant heroes went, eager to slay the dreaded enemy. Some spread the nets and some let loose the dogs, some traced the wild spoor of the monster's hooves."

• 29:49Liv Albert?

  They're using their hunting skills. Ovid really emphasizes this. They're not all just rushing in with spears held high, they're being strategic. They're going about it as hunters, devotees of Artemis, rather than just busting in. "And finally, in a deep gorge, covered in brush, they find the boar. Or rather, the boar found them. Their hunting skills did them little good in the end, and the boar was disturbed by the sound of them. It came rushing out of the brush in a mad dash." Quote, "The young men raised a shout, leveled their spears, and brandished their keen weapons,

• 30:30Liv Albert?

  but the boar rushed onward through the yelping dogs and scattered them with deadly, side-long stroke."

• 30:39Liv Albert?

  It's not looking good for these men searching for the boar. But thankfully, they're not all men.

• 31:03Liv Albert?

  The Caledonian boar has finally revealed itself in the most dramatic of fashions by busting in on this group of men who thought they were sneaking up on it. It scatters them with this deadly blow, sending bodies flying. But among these scattered men, these flying bodies, was not Atalanta. She does, though, finally catch sight of the boar when it takes out these men. She sees it, but she isn't startled, she doesn't get scattered by it. She sees the creature, raises her bow, an arrow, high in the air, aims carefully, and lets loose an arrow.

• 31:43Liv Albert?

  She hit the boar square in the head, hitting it by the ear and staining its bristles with blood. But, she doesn't kill it. As all of us Odyssey players know, it takes more than just one arrow to take down the Caledonian boar.

• 32:01Liv Albert?

  Still, Ovid tells us that Atalanta was happy with her shot, proud of herself for being the first of all of them to actually hit the beast, to wound it, to thus make it easier to kill. But even the woman who made the shot isn't happier than Meliagor. He is weirdly psyched about it. You think it's just him being supportive, like a feminist, wanting to get her the credit? That's certainly the take I read on it when I first told you this story. But looking at the sources themselves, no. Meliagor's a weirdo. He's excited because he wants to impress her, wants her to like him. And I mean, maybe he legitimately likes her, it's nice, he's attracted to her strength and her skills.

• 32:43Liv Albert?

  But if we take Apollodorus's version, he's already married with children. So we don't actually need to like Meliagor, even though he's supporting her. He's got weird and gross ulterior motives.

• 32:56Liv Albert?

  And Ovid tells us very clearly that he rejoices in Atalanta's shot even more than she does.

• 33:03Liv Albert?

  But of course, not all the men are thrilled that it was Atalanta, a woman, who first took aim and actually wounded the Caledonian boar. And in the head, no less. She hit it in the head. No, a few of them are actually pretty fucking angry about it. It doesn't help that Meliagor starts yelling about it, telling them not only to "look at what the woman did", but "look at what the unmarried woman did." Actually, in Meliagor's defense, I've had to refer to another translation for a future line, and my usual go-to translation, The Mendelbaum, has him instead saying just, quote, "It's only right that you receive the honor due such signal bravery." So, okay, that's just nice. Regardless of how Meliagor handles it,

• 33:47Liv Albert?

  this first wounding by Atalanta, a woman? Well, it doesn't go over well. Surprise, surprise. One of the men who doesn't want Atalanta to win any of their masculine glory, Anchayus, yells out, quote, "Witness it. See the weapons of a man excel a woman's. Ho! Make way for my achievement. Let Artemis shield the brute. Despite her utmost effort, my right hand shall slaughter him." It's the "make way for my achievement" that really gets me. In the other translation, The Mendelbaum, he's equally obnoxious, saying, quote, "Young men, make way for me.

• 34:27Liv Albert?

  It's time you learned that nothing women wield will ever match a weapon that is wielded by a man." And then, well, then Anchayus gets ripped to fucking shreds. I'm thinking Artemis of all fucking people didn't love a man calling out to her to help and then saying he's going to prove that women fucking suck at hunting? Like, read the fucking room, Anchayus. Anchayus's death scene is so good, I wanna quote it for you. This is the moment, the moment after he's boasted, quote, "So mighty in his boast he puffed himself, and lifting with both hands his double-edged axe, he stood erect, on tiptoe fiercely bold.

• 35:12Liv Albert?

  The savage boar caught him and ripped his tusks through his groin, a spot where death is sure. Anchayus fell, and his torn entrails and his crimson blood stained the fair verger of the spot with death."

• 35:32Liv Albert?

  So Anchaeus is very dead, and as much as someone's death shouldn't be funny, this one kind of is. And after this, in further attempts to kill the boar, Pelias throws his spear and seemingly accidentally hits and kills a guy named Eurytion. Things are not going well for the men.

• 35:56Liv Albert?

  With Anchaeus dead mere moments after he boasted about himself and Pelias having killed Eurytion with his very poor aim, Meliagor now takes aim at the Caledonian boar. He takes aim and throws his spear and... he misses. Because he's no Atalanta. But he takes aim again and he throws again, and this time he hits the boar through its side, hard enough that the animal is wounded, slowed down enough that Meliagor can rush up to it and stab it through once more, finally killing the beast.

• 36:31Liv Albert?

  Having finally killed this creature, the rest of the men rush to it and also begin to stab it. Sounds like a bit over the top, they're full of adrenaline and looking to show off their power, to make it very clear that the men have done the deed. But Meliagor, either because he isn't such a shitty guy, or because he wants to sleep with Atalanta behind his wife's back, steps up. And when the Caledonian boar's hide is removed from its body, he hands the bloodied, bristled mess to Atalanta, saying it deserves to be hers because she dealt the first blow.

• 37:08Liv Albert?

  We get no word of Atalanta's reaction to any of this. It's as if she kind of falls to the wayside, both in terms of the telling of the story, but also maybe because it just doesn't matter whether she cared or not. She knows she hit the creature first, that her arrow hit him on her first try, piercing the beast below the ear, almost certainly affecting its ability to keep fighting. Does she care if she gets the credit? If she gets this boar's hide? Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't, maybe she's above that type of more obvious credit. What matters is that the men of the group are fucking infuriated that Meliagor would even consider handing it to her. They are absolutely unwilling to concede any credit to a woman,

• 37:50Liv Albert?

  to give any suggestions that a woman did any damage to the animal, that she contributed even a tiny bit. They are obvious in their disgust that a woman was even allowed to take part. They are certainly not going to give her any credit for it. So are we surprised that in some versions, Jason and Theseus and Pirithous are among these men? I think not. Reminder, Pirithous is the guy who tried to abduct Persephone from the fucking underworld? He's less important, but equally awful. They're fighting over the hide, their refusal to let Meliagor hand it over to Atalanta gets vicious and violent. With Meliagor not

• 38:32Liv Albert?

  giving in to their anger, to the point where Meliagor actually kills two of them. Unfortunately, not Jason or Theseus or even Pirithous. He gets to die strapped to a chair in the underworld, or rather, live there forever unable to move. No, Meliagor kills two brothers, his own uncles, named Plexippus and Toxius in Ovid's Telling.

• 38:57Liv Albert?

  And for this, you all might remember, Meliagor himself is killed, but not by the men there, not in immediate revenge for this murder. No, his own mother, Althea, kills him by tossing a bit of wood on the fire. A bit of wood that she knew would be the death of her son, that she had in her possession just in case? Today's episode is not about Meliagor, but the quick recap is that he'd been cursed. The wood had been thrown on the fire and his mother had been told that when it had finished burning, he would die. She'd fished it out at the time and kept it safe, hopefully not

• 39:37Liv Albert?

  ever intending to burn it and kill her son. But that's exactly what she did when Meliagor killed his uncles, her brothers, picking his possibly creepy crush on Atalanta over his own family.

• 39:52Liv Albert?

  What of Atalanta after the death of the boar? What of this Arcadian Atalanta? We don't know much about the moments after the boar's death, or even how she handled Meliager's eagerness to help her, his death. Her own contributions aren't really mentioned. Of this Arcadian Atalanta, we learn that she eventually, does eventually marry a man, or at least have a child. But, the man she married may not have tricked her. May not have married her through cowardice, through a gross act of manipulation. Through the story that we know of Atalanta. This incredible heroine who lived so independently, who was so strong and skilled,

• 40:37Liv Albert?

  who defeated Peleus with her strength in wrestling, who'd taken one shot at the boar and hit it square in the head? This Atalanta may not have been the same Atalanta from the famed story of the Golden Apples. A story that makes so little sense, given everything we know about the Arcadian Atalanta. But, that is for next week.

• 41:20Liv Albert?

  Oh nerds, thank you all so much for listening, as always. Did I set out to turn this story that I'd originally told in a mini-myth into a two-part episode where I talk about two different Adelantas? Absolutely not, but here we are. 2022 Liv vs 2019 Liv. What a difference. So there's this one quote I found from Xenophon, a 4th century BCE writer who has a piece called "On Hunting." I couldn't figure out the best way to fit it into the episode, but I still wanted to share it. So, quote, "For all men who have loved hunting have been good. And not men only, but those women also to whom the goddess Artemis has given this blessing, Atalanta and Procris, and others like them."

• 42:04Liv Albert?

  I just love that. It's a good example of how we, myself very much included, tend to generalize the understanding of women in the ancient world around the idea of Athenian women, because that's most of our sourcing. But it gives a false notion that all women had to lead these stifled, locked away kind of lives, when that really isn't the case. So here's Xenophon being like, "Oh yeah, women can not only be hunters, but they can enjoy it and be good at it when they're gifted by Artemis." It's kinda nice. And, oh hey, look, I've remembered to read another of your amazing reviews on the show. I read all of them that come in. I get emails with them every day, but somehow every time I'm putting together a script, I forget that I should add one in. Fortunately, recently somebody tweeted at me after I'd read their review, and they were so psyched that it motivated

• 42:49Liv Albert?

  me to do it again. So this is from Allison YVR from Canada. "One of my favorite podcasts. It starts five stars. Liv, the host, is enthusiastic and knowledgeable on the subject and adds a dose of humor, as well as a willingness to point out where the mythology is especially weird or horrifying. Lately, the content has broadened from simply telling a myth to entertaining conversations with experts and deep dives into specific myths and heroes. A great choice if you are interested in mythology and don't know where to start, or if you're already a huge nerd and want to learn more."

• 43:25Liv Albert?

  Thank you, Allison of Vancouver. I love to hear from a local, and that really means a lot, especially when people are recognizing the growth of this show. So please, join Allison in sharing your love for the podcast. It truly means the whole world to me, even if I forget to read your reviews on the actual show. I read everyone and smile every time, because you are all so fucking awesome. Let's talk about Myth TV is written and produced by me, Liv Albert. Michaela Smith is the Hermes to my Olympians and handles so many podcast-related things. Gosh, just everything.

• 44:00Liv Albert?

  The podcast is hosted and monetized by Acast. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am Liv and I love this shit.

• 44:11Liv Albert?

  Others want the confidence of a trusted global brand. With Series by Marriott, you get both. Each property is uniquely connected to its destination, delivering local experiences and memorable stays. While being backed by the quality, reliability, and Marriott Bonvoy benefits travelers know and trust. Experience the destination without the compromise. Series by Marriott is part of Marriott Bonvoy. Book direct at marriott.com or on the Marriott Bonvoy app.

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Some travelers want the charm of an independent hotel. Some travelers want the charm of an independent hotel. Others want the confidence of a trusted global brand. With Series by Marriott, you get both. Each property is uniquely connected to its destination, delivering local experiences and memorable stays, while being backed by the quality, reliability, and Marriott Bonvoy benefits travelers know and trust. Experience the destination without the compromise. Series by Marriott is part of Marriott Bonvoy. Book direct at marriott.com or on the Marriott Bonvoy app.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  Hi folks, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. The new Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives: Orange County, is coming to Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ November 12. Jen Affleck leads a new group of women with the hope of forming a sense of community, but moral divides threaten to tear the group apart. Watch the new Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives: Orange County, on November 12, streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 46:39Speaker 03

  Hey guys, it is Pablo Torre from Pablo Torre Finds Out. And as a journalist, I like to think I have the answers. But every holiday season, gifting makes me think otherwise. Getting it right feels impossible and can get quite stressful. But thankfully, Sephora takes a lot of the pressure off. Whether you're shopping for a beauty expert, a skincare lover, or someone who is just hard to shop for, Sephora's got it all. The big assist comes from Sephora's expert beauty advisors, who remove the guesswork with personalized recommendations so you can find something thoughtful and useful for the people on your list. Beauty is a gift anyone can give. So this holiday season, shop gifts at Sephora and give something beautiful.

• 47:22Speaker 04

  Enemy of My Dreams by Jenny Williamson is a historical romance novel set in the time of the late Roman Empire, where Alaric, a brutal Gothic warlord, and Julia, a Roman princess, with a love of good wine, team up to take down Rome.

• 47:40Speaker 05

  The much-awaited sequel, Game of Thieves, comes out December 8. In this sequel, Julia and Alaric must overcome centuries of conflict to work together or the turbulent riptides of rebellion and the demons of their past will tear them apart.

• 47:53Speaker 04

  And now, for a limited time, when you preorder Game of Thieves through Burning Pages Bookstore, you'll get a signed book plate and a free art print of one of Jenny's favorite spicy scenes from across the series.

• 48:07Speaker 05

  Get this amazing artwork only from Burning Pages at burningpagesnc.com/game-of-thieves. Don't wait. Order your copy from Burning Pages today at burningpagesnc.com/game-of-thieves.