KHC 105 - LIVE from Cactus Jack with Michael Waddell, Jerry Wascom & Brian Stephens

Join us for a discussion with Michael Waddell, Jerry Wascom and Brian Stephens as they talk about the giant bucks of Cactus Jack Ranch, deer management, and more! Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Cactus Jack: https://www.instagram.com/cactusjackranch/ Thank you to our sponsors: Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code CAM for 15% off Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Timestamps: 0:00:00 What’s Special About Cactus Jack Ranch 0:10:25 The Cactus Jack Team 0:13:16 No Buck is Guaranteed 0:20:28 Deer Management 0:24:11 A Brotherhood & Fellowship in Hunting 0:31:17 Trophy Bucks - Don’t Waste Your Life 0:33:42 Waddell & Wascom’s First Time Meeting Cam 0:36:35 Big Names, Competition & A Change in Competitive Nature 0:38:33 Telling the Story - Hunting Culture 0:45:47 A Passion for Hunting 0:51:41 Hunting & A Connection with Nature 0:56:32 Sharing the Passion for Hunting 0:59:24 The Golden Triangle of Texas 01:03:47 Giant Bodied Bucks 01:10:55 The Goals for Cactus Jack 01:12:43 Outro - A Special Place at Cactus Jack

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Cameron Hanes?

  Alright, well this is the Keep Hammering Collective. This is like a call out to Waddell here, a road trip version of the Keep Hammering Collective. We're here at Cactus Jack Ranch and we've got the owner here, Jerry Wascom. Thank you Jerry, we've got Michael Waddell, everybody knows, the bone collector, and my buddy Brian Stephens. And we're here in, basically in whitetail heaven, is how I would describe it. I mean, before we hear from Jerry, what would you say about this place so far, Brian?

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Well, I've grown up in Texas my whole life and I can honestly say I've never seen anything like it. It's, the numbers with the quality is unparalleled, without a doubt. I mean, the number of deer, usually when you see numbers, you're not seeing the quality, but you get both here. So, I've never, yeah, it's unbelievable.

• 1:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Michael?

• 1:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was scared, I'd been woke up in glory. I was like, I told Cameron, I was talking to myself in the blind and crazy, you know, thinking about it. We were talking, sharing stories. Heck, man, I remember I was like 18 or 19, going out and working with Realtree, going like to Insanitas Ranch, we'd go to the pearlets. And I remember thinking like, this is amazing, like Texas hunting is crazy and it's awesome. It's December here, it's close to the holidays, so it's just a good time to get away. And Cameron and I had been talking about sharing the camp together, back when we did a podcast, heck, I think it was January, February. And then, so I knew this place, I had several friends that told me about it, and Cameron said, "You should come out, man." So we put it together, and I was like, talking to myself, I've never seen anything like it. And I've had a lot of cool...

• 1:58Speaker 02

  Ranches in Texas, but I was overwhelmed at the amount of deer we saw and and nice bucks. You know, I was just, I don't know, like I said, I'm still, I'm still, I'm thinking, like I said, I don't like, man, I hope nothing happened to me and I didn't wake up in heaven. Cause if heaven's like this, I'm alright.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  It's gonna be alright.

• 2:18Cameron Hanes?

  And you you guys have such glowing reviews and you haven't even shot an arrow yet.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:22Cameron Hanes?

  So this is just experiencing the hunt and

• 2:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25Cameron Hanes?

  and what's out there. It's, they haven't even killed, which is amazing. So, hearing all that, Jerry, um, and it's no surprise, you've created this, this diamond in the rough, basically. Well, it's not even the rough, because it's in South Texas, this is Yeah. the golden triangle. Um, why is Cactus Jack so special? And, yeah, tell us about it.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, let me start kinda with my hunting history, because

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:50Speaker 03

  he and I have a lot of parallelism here. And I grew up in Louisiana. So I grew up, I grew up hunting trees

• 2:56Speaker 02

  South, yeah.

• 2:57Speaker 03

  Mississippi and Louisiana, hoping that you'd see a deer. First year I hunted, I saw one dead. I got, I got permission to hunt a hundred acres just on the Louisiana Mississippi line, hunted all season, saw one dead. So this is quite a journey for me.

• 3:12Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  You know, and in my wildest dreams, I never imagined I'd, I was watching you on TV, but I never imagined I'd be in a situation where I had the opportunity to do what we have here.

• 3:23Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:24Speaker 03

  The, you know, and I've hunted South Texas. I moved from Louisiana to Texas in eighty-six. I bounced around and decided South Texas is where I wanted to be. Hunted a lot of ranches in South Texas, a lot of ranches in Mexico, and kinda had a good baseline of where the best deer were being killed. And, you know, I worked from the ground up, because I grew up in a real, you know, middle-class family and started working as an engineer at Exxon and never thought I'd be in a position to do these kinda things, but fortunately, my career went well for me. And so I had the opportunities I built over time to get to experience the hunting, and also to, you know, to grow in terms of my opportunities and

• 4:05Speaker 03

  and we finally had a chance to buy this place. And I got to the point where I had it down to just a handful of places that I'd be willing to buy, based on their track record. And this place became available and we were able to buy it. You know, it was a, it was a miracle that it all happened that way, but it did. Sometimes I guess things happen for a reason. And we're able to buy it and, and I knew the family that owned it. And I always give credit to the people that own this ranch because they did such a phenomenal job. Uh, it was under intense management for 20 years. And when I say intense management, I'm talking about 100% native indigenous deer. No deer ever brought in here, no deer ever put in a pen, no deer ever bred. Mm-hmm.

• 4:46Speaker 03

  This is just kind of what God put here and how we have, you know, managed those creatures. Uh, but they had a great track record. They were very private with it. It was the Leonard family. Uh, they did everything right. They did it the way you're supposed to do it. And they started with probably the best ground that there is in the world for growing big deer. It's this red dirt is super fertile. It's in a real hot spot of red dirt. You know, if it rains, it looks like springtime, no matter what time of the year it is. It's just that productive. Mm-hmm. And, uh, you know, through my buddy Stuart Stedman, who has, uh, the Faith Ranch and some of the research he's done. What he was explaining to me is there's an epigenetic effect.

• 5:27Speaker 03

  If a species is, is exposed to superior nutrition for generations and generations, it flips on some little genetic switches that allow the bodies to get bigger, which in turn allow antlers to get bigger, bone structure to get bigger. And, uh, that's really what we had going on here even before the Leonard's Bob. So in that, it was somewhat of a natural. Epigenetic evolution. And if you look in this area, the biggest deer in Texas are killed right here. Arguably the biggest deer in the world. I mean, my neighbor's killed a 307 native deer and a 275. Okay. That's exciting. So, uh, we knew we were kind of in the right place.

• 6:08Speaker 03

  And out of the 30 years of dealing with deer and dealing with people and ranches, we developed a philosophy of how we wanted to do it. You know, my experience was most of the really, really big deer I'd killed have been seven or eight years old. So we put more age on the deer. Again, based on some of the work that, uh, Faith Ranch had done. We uh, we ran higher population, you know. My neighbor says it's it's cheaper to feed than it is to buy twenty thousand acres. Mm-hmm. So. We do purposely run a higher population. Means you gotta kill a lot of deer, but you know, and we and our goal is for the deer to be in optimum health. Optimum physical condition.

• 6:49Speaker 03

  So we let them get old, we we feed heavily, free choice feed, cottonseed, uh, protein. Uh, we also have water distributed all, you know, it's a very arid area and we had never ran for three months now. It's real dry right now, but we have water distributed all over the ranch. So we make the life of these deer as as optimum as it can be and they're super healthy and they're big bodied, big antler and. But that's just the deer side of it. You know, as you said, Michael, the thing that makes ranches special is the deer kind of facilitate people like us coming together. Cause we have that love for it, but bringing people together and having uh, having us just a chance to get to know each other and laugh and have fun.

• 7:35Speaker 03

  And do what we love, that's what, that's to me what really makes us special. I agree.

• 7:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. It's uh, what what I've been surprised with here is, you know, we talk about shooting older deer, letting the deer get that age on them. For most places that I've seen, like five is, I mean, that's an old deer.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  That's old, yeah.

• 7:54Cameron Hanes?

  Five, at five, I saw three five and a half year olds this morning that were not even, you're still giving them at least two more years. And uh, then you talk about killing bucks at eight or nine, you know, like a, you have an eight and a half year old in there that we were watching a video of. And it's like, what if you, you know, turn, let him go one more year, what what could he do? And most places I don't think have the resource to do that, the deer numbers to do that, to where you still have. Cause you have hunters coming in, you still wanna hunt yourself and so you have to have enough bucks to, for hunters to kill. But then also enough to still let them go to s- to eight or nine years old.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 8:31Cameron Hanes?

  And um, yeah, so your philosophy on on managing is is pretty amazing. But it's, there's so much that goes into it, it's it's that dirt, it's the numbers, it's the feed, it's the this habitat here. And then it's just having so many deer you can still, like, tell me, tell me real quick, like this year, what have you killed as far as over one eighty?

• 8:53Speaker 03

  Uh, I think we've killed twelve that score over one eighty.

• 8:56Cameron Hanes?

  Twelve over one eighty.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  Killed five that score over one ninety.

• 8:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, just this year.

• 9:00Speaker 03

  Just this year.

• 9:01Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I don't know how many over two hundred, I don't know how many over two hundred we've killed in the last seven or eight years, but it's way up in the teens.

• 9:13Speaker 03

  And it's really just a matter of letting them get old and, and creating the right environment for them. And, you know, we have so many that are up in that upper class. I can gamble with them.

• 9:24Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 9:25Speaker 03

  You know, I can let a one eighty, seven year old go.

• 9:27Cameron Hanes?

  That, that's the, the, the beauty of this situation. Most places couldn't.

• 9:33Speaker 03

  They couldn't. You gotta kill them because that's the, that's the best deer they have.

• 9:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you gotta kill it.

• 9:37Speaker 03

  And that's just like one of thirty.

• 9:39Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  For us, so we can let some of them go. They're showing potential and, and therefore we get that into that bell curve.

• 9:46Cameron Hanes?

  And some you take chances on and they go the other way.

• 9:48Speaker 03

  They go the other way, yeah. I mean, we got one in the pasture right now. It's breaking my heart. I mean, he was a two hundred. I was, I was seeing him as a two thirty and he peaked out at two hundred and now he's probably a one seventy. And I could have shot him opening day and I'm like, I just can't do it.

• 10:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:04Speaker 03

  You know, I, I tell people all the time, I love my deer alive better than I love them dead. You know, if they, if they'd lived to be twenty years old, we'd have a pasture two hundreds because I'd just leave them out there. Just to see them, you know. I was lucky enough to shoot a giant typical last night. It just happened. You guys were here for it.

• 10:23Cameron Hanes?

  That is incredible. That group we had out there and, yeah, talk about everybody who's out there and then, you know, your dog man too.

• 10:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So, you know, it was a deer that was eight years old that, uh, he ended up scoring a hundred and ninety-three. He's way up in the that book deer. I mean, beautiful, perfect.

• 10:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, netted over one eighty. Um, I didn't want to shoot him. My team had to talk me into it. Because I had in my mind him being a little bit different than that. And so they finally twisted my arm and I went and shot him. Bow hunting can be tough. I made a decent shot, but not enough to drop him. So we got the guys with the dogs to come. My good friend, Roy Hines and, and John Schulte, his son-in-law. I've, I've been dealing with Roy. There's probably a deer or two in this room that I shot hunting with Roy on his place. In my journey of hunting, at one, once upon a time, he had probably the best place in the country.

• 11:20Cameron Hanes?

  And now he talked that this is the best place. I think I heard him say last night.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, he said last night.

• 11:25Cameron Hanes?

  You're at the very best place you could be.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's, it's, people could certainly make that argument.

• 11:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 03

  I won't say that. It's a little buzzful on my part, but we do pretty well. And Roy's a quality guy. I've spent many nights at his house. I've hunted with him. I've shot calls on his place. He and his family, great people. And, you know, when we're bow hunting occasionally, you don't get exactly through the lungs of the heart and they run off. And having those guys that can come with those dogs, they have been breeding for like forty years, these dogs that you saw on last night.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  Man, amazing how that dog stayed on that trail and we found that deer. But that's just the kind of people that we run into down here. There's some great people that grew up in South Texas. This is their heritage. They love to do it and we love to be connected with them.

• 12:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that was, that was fun to watch. I haven't been around, you know, dogs like that very often, a couple of times now. But, uh, yeah, it's always amazing to see them do what they do.

• 12:26Speaker 03

  Thankful. I love, I hate to call them, but I love when they show up because I know it's usually a good outcome.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Well, a lot of people don't realize that guy's, Roy is a legend.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  He is.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Among dog handlers, yeah, he is a true legend.

• 12:37Cameron Hanes?

  Probably the most fame, famous.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say.

• 12:40Cameron Hanes?

  Blood trailing dog, dog guy, right?

• 12:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, probably in the country.

• 12:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:44Speaker 03

  And with good reason.

• 12:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 12:46Speaker 03

  Now, his dad was like one of the godfathers of the whitetail management in Texas. Yeah, so it's been in his family a long time. Uh, and it still is. He's, he's an iconic person down here and it's just a, it's a real pleasure to be connected with him.

• 13:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, he was so nice too, as you said.

• 13:02Speaker 03

  Oh, he's a great guy. His, his wife Pam, and his, both of his, his daughter and his son, I know them well, good people.

• 13:11Cameron Hanes?

  Um, let's get, uh, so Brian, I know you've hunted down South Texas a lot, but just explain, so, because people will see these videos and they'll be like. Well, that's just shooting fish in a barrel, kind of, and it's, I think people get the misconception a little bit because there are a lot of deer there, not the shooters per se, because now you've sat, how many times have you sat?

• 13:32Speaker 03

  Three, four now.

• 13:34Cameron Hanes?

  Four times, and um, it isn't shooting fish in a barrel, because if you're trying to wait for that, well, for, for example, the, the buck you were hunting had never daylighted, and you'd been hunting him hard, I'm talking to Jerry now at this time, and he'd never daylighted the whole time, so it doesn't matter how many deer are coming in if the one you're after isn't coming in, or does not come in the daylight, that's the, that's the challenge of it, is waiting for that one.

• 14:03Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, you know, so, we have hunters come in, we have a long list of deer that are mature, and when hunters come in, we know which deer are showing up, so it seems like it's real easy. But if you pick one deer, and you're trying to figure that deer out, it can be really challenging. I mean, a number of deer that we've killed, and Michael and I hunt hard, it takes us three months to kill that one deer. He saw it, and they go, Michael, my son.

• 14:30Cameron Hanes?

  Michael, your son.

• 14:31Speaker 03

  Oh, that massive thing, you know, we hunted it every opportunity last year, and I think we killed it like the day before New Year's.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Wow, yeah.

• 14:42Speaker 03

  So it's one thing to come here and, you know, shoot a one seventy, one eighty, it's just happening to show up out of the pool. But when you have a specific one that you're hunting, it, it's like a needle in a haystack proposition. Some of them are easy, some of them are hard, and uh, you know, so that, that's a different dimension, you know, Cam, the way you hunt with us, you're kind of one of the members, and therefore you get an opportunity to, we have a draft, we identify shooters, the members get a chance to pick in that draft, and, you know, then it's a one-on-one game, and that's something that we started based on my experience of running hunting camps, so we don't have the competition, it's no cutthroat thing, it becomes just like a one-on-one thing between an animal and a hunter.

• 15:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 15:26Speaker 03

  And the deer you picked, there was nobody else gonna hunt it.

• 15:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, because we've been. Then we've all been around enough to know how hunting camps work. A lot of times guys will come back. They don't want to say what they saw. Then the other guys are like, I'm in, I'm in some shit area. I want to go where he's going. But here, everybody's, this is what I saw. Here's the video of it. Here's this that didn't see your buck. If you have, you know, if it's a member who has a buck selected. But even aside from that, so Brian, you're just looking for, and Michael, you know, a seven year old buck. And Michael, you saw him. Brian, you haven't yet. So it's not, it's still not guaranteed. I mean, this is low fence hunt. It's free range. So it's.

• 16:09Speaker 02

  And this is like the best time because they're really starting to move. You know, the rut's gonna start here in about a week. So the bucks that have been very reclusive, like the one.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  We hadn't seen him all year. You know, so he's just come out in the last few days.

• 16:25Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, the one Michael saw?

• 16:34Speaker 02

  I was like shell shocked. I, I was shell shocked. I was like, I mean, literally, I thought I'd played the Super Bowl a few times, you know, when it come to hunting, but I was like, man, what to do?

• 16:45Speaker 02

  Deer everywhere. I, I was, yeah, I kept thinking, man, it's like, this, this don't seem real. And, and I know for a lot of even listeners here. You know, cause you go, well, we're from Louisiana, me, Georgia, and I think about all the people could be listening in Pennsylvania and Michigan, really all across the country. And then of course you get to those traditional midwestern states, the, you know, the Iowa's, the Kansas and even all over Texas. Yeah, what we're talking about and they, you know, like you pick out maybe a couple of characters like a Don and Candy Kiskie or Lee and Tiffany Lekowski. When you're throwing around one seventy, one eighties and two hundred inch deer, that doesn't freak them out. That's not like a dream world of them because they live in it. They also know that those deer are unicorns, but when a lot of people hear.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  You throw, we throw the terms out of these big high scoring deer. You know, if you grew up in Georgia, like you Louisiana or even like, man, that's unreal. And, and, and to be honest with you, it still is unbelievable and special. And that's why it's like, that's why I said, I felt like I was in heaven. Because this is real native Texas deer that are here. And, and like last night, we saw, put our hands on a one ninety-three that Jerry had killed. The deer that I was hunting was hundred and sixty to seventy inch deer. And I was looking at them and knowing they're deer that are the age demographic of what's on the list to shoot. And for that to happen and to grow up hunting and bow hunting is mind boggling.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  So for anybody listening to think, man, what are these guys talking about? I'm still taking it in. I mean, I'm still, I think, I think that's what Brian said, I'm still, I grew up. And, and I hate to say professional because I don't consider myself a professional, but I've been around this hunting culture. Like early on, I was thinking, I'm either going to be a hobo, go broke, or I'm going to work in this hunting industry as a guide, as a stand hanger, dog handler, cameraman, whatever I gotta do, because I just knew I would love being around hunting. Everything from elk, deer, hogs, squirrels, I mean, it don't matter.

• 18:44Cameron Hanes?

  You've been around.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  I've seen a lot of whitetail places in this, you know, been all over Kansas, all over Iowa, all over Saskatchewan and Alberta, all the way up through there. And to see what I saw even this morning was like, just when I thought I'd seen a lot of kutsapahs, this blew my mind. I mean, I'm like, this is crazy. It almost felt like, I told the camera, I got back, I felt like a selfish little punk. I'm sitting there like, okay, I'm pretty sure that's one of the ones I could shoot, but is there any other close? It felt like this punk kid.

• 19:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  And, and I don't know, man, it was surreal. So, yeah, for people listening who think this is unfathomable, or maybe, uh, maybe we're spoiled for hunting here. I, I would say we are, we, it is, it is a very blessed spoiled thing. It's almost like, you know, you, you think about the money you invest. I told Coe and our producer, I said, man, You know, anytime you go on a cool place, a hunt or adventure or vacation, there's money to be invested. You gotta, you gotta put money down. You gotta do something. I said, I bet you I spent twenty grand in Disney World, taking my youngins down there and stood in lines at the Wazoo to look at Mickey Mouse. I don't know, next time I'm gonna talk my youngins and like, "Hey, for vacation, we're going to Cactus Jack."

• 19:57Speaker 02

  There's Mickey Mouse. This is real magic.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, we do have a lot of kids that come here. Where their, you know, families and we love.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  You don't have to stand in line. You can go right in there and get you some eggs and bacon and sausage gravy. You got a bacon drawer.

• 20:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, we have a bacon drawer. That's right.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  This is better than a trip.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  All of us as country folks, we gotta save up and take the family to the Gulf of Mexico, down to Panama City Beach, and stand in line to eat some, you know, fried fish and Captain Anderson's. I'm like, "Man, let's just save up a little more. Let's just go to Cactus Jack. This is the real deal. It's crazy."

• 20:29Speaker 03

  Well, you know, you make a good point though, Michael. You and I grew up hunting hard, okay?

• 20:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:35Speaker 03

  And, you know, and the whole time I hunted Louisiana, the best deer I killed was a one fifty-two.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was just a good buck.

• 20:41Speaker 03

  That was a hellacious trophy, okay?

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:44Speaker 03

  It still might be the best trophy I have, okay?

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Completely understandable, yeah.

• 20:48Speaker 03

  Because, you know, and, you know, people talk about trophy hunting. There's all kinds of... Being in camp is like the biggest value. Being outdoors and enjoying all the nature and seeing what happens out there is great value. You know, shooting animals of any size is really an experience. And then those of us who've got a lot of time with it, you know, we like to shoot the big ones.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  Correct, yeah.

• 21:08Speaker 03

  And, uh, but it, it's different for everybody and trophies are all relative to where you are.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 21:13Speaker 03

  You can't kill what's not there.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 21:16Speaker 03

  And just do the best you can to manage the property you have or to be conservation minded when you're out hunting public land and

• 21:25Speaker 02

  That's exactly right.

• 21:26Speaker 03

  Take what you can get and embrace it and, and love it.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  And I've always too thought, when you think about that and you think about, say, a trophy hunter, somebody who does enjoy the fact that they can put a tape on a deer, maybe he's one eighty, maybe he's one ninety-three like the buck you shot last night. Those deer would never exist without an investment in time and energy. And financial resources and the desire to want that type of end goal or trophy. So without that, this deer probably wouldn't exist at this le- at this level.

• 21:55Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  So even though it is to a degree unfathomable, it shows that strategically it can be done.

• 22:00Speaker 03

  It can be done.

• 22:00Speaker 02

  And and but it takes, like you're talking about that red dirt, the fertile soil, and it seems like that is the case. That's the one thing, hearing you talk at dinner last night about this red soil. It's the one thing I do, I see in common, like when you go to say Illinois and you hear about there was a, at one time, I guess supposedly like a glacier or something or a melt. And supposedly put so much nitrogen in the soil and that's where they're getting so many bushels of corn. So the soil, then you go to Kansas, same thing, you hear the story about the soil and the protein.

• 22:31Speaker 03

  It starts with there and it builds.

• 22:32Speaker 02

  Iowa, so on and so forth, then you get out to certain areas in Arizona where those giant bulls, it's the soil. So I I do think the biggest common denominator is certainly management, certainly supple- supplemental feeding. But there's something, if you ain't got that base of that soil, I don't know that you can ever get to these unicorn type deer. Can you have a good herd? Yeah, but I don't know that.

• 22:53Speaker 03

  I know.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  It takes a.

• 22:54Speaker 03

  I've hunted a lot of ranches, managed quite a few of them myself, all across the Golden Triangle, and trust me, it's not all created equal.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  I believe that.

• 23:02Speaker 03

  Not created equal at all.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  I think that's the same in every state.

• 23:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  I mean, I was.

• 23:06Cameron Hanes?

  I think that was, that, oh, go ahead, Brian.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  I was just gonna add that to your point earlier is in addition to all of that, I think some, or down here, one thing that people get confused about when they see you have a ton of deer in front of you. The fact that that that part is management, you know, and that they have.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  They're letting all those deer go for so long that the deer, the younger deer do let you look at it. They are a little more forgiving than your average animal and they, you know, you're gonna see a lot of game because down in the Golden Triangle where we are, the ranches are large, they're managed for age structure. And so those animals are getting to live a long life without being bothered very much, there's not a lot of pressure. So, but as we've seen, the, those, those older, it reminds me of black bear hunting because, you know, you, it's not a problem sometimes to see bears. But to see in bow range, the one you want is a whole different ballgame.

• 23:59Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  And people get complacent, they, they just think, oh, well, they're, you know, they're very relaxed and borderline tame sometimes. But, but that is not the case with the older age class. Yeah, not the ones we're after.

• 24:10Cameron Hanes?

  Right, yeah, it's a, it's true. I, I do wanna say too that. What I remember the most about last night, yes, you killed a once in a lifetime buck for most people, but I just remember just the mood and the, the brotherhood out there, the fellowship, I guess you could say.

• 24:28Speaker 03

  Unbelievable.

• 24:29Cameron Hanes?

  And so we're out there in the middle of the field, in the middle of the night, I don't know what time it was, ten something, and got the buck killed and everybody just smiling and laughing and just feeling, just, I just remember the feeling of how blessed we are.

• 24:46Speaker 03

  Oh, and I'm glad you actually stopped us and, and made us think about that, you know, just for me. You know, when I shoot a deer and I can't go find him immediately within a hundred yards, I get anxious.

• 24:58Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  Okay, because I, I have very high standards for myself and recovering deer and so forth, and, and I get anxious, but having you guys there and the conversations we were having and we were laughing, I mean, it's just, it like took my blood pressure way down. It made, it made it a really great experience. And, you know, you talked a lot about the soil, we talked a lot about kind of my management philosophy here, but I'd be very remiss if I didn't talk about the people that make it happen. So, you know, our team here is fantastic and, you know, I have the best ranch manager in the world. Jake Albritton is as good as it gets, man. And he, he has super high standards for execution of what we do. We start our feeding program and there's not a single feeder, it was without feed for

• 25:41Speaker 03

  one day, from the time we start to the time we stop. And just that almost perfection, and we can explain to people what we do, but getting people, you know, actually being able to execute it. And then Tim and Robin, you know, you hunted Tim, he's your guy. Tim's been my, Tim's been my personal hunting partner for 25 years.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  Wow, that's cool.

• 26:04Speaker 03

  And so he, Tim is super smart. He understands deer very well. Jerry Jacoby is guiding you, Brian, I mean Jerry and I started hunting together back in 1988. So, the people, the people that are here, we've been a team for a long time. And, you know, their goal is for everybody that comes here to get treated with respect and have a great time. And to me, it's kind of that whole package. And I always, I tell them, look, our vision is to have the best whitetail, whitetail hunting in the world, but when people leave, say, they say, yes, the best hunting I've ever seen, but that wasn't even the best part. Right, okay. So it's really trying to bring it together. So hats off to my team. I couldn't do this without them.

• 26:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so, yeah, everything about this is, because you, I've been to plenty of places where you're like, you go, yeah, the hunting's great, but, you know, you're whatever, staying in shack, which I don't care about, or dealing with certain guides or whatever. And it's like, there's always something, but here, it's like, there's, I don't know, I don't, I don't know how this could be any, but, anything but perfect. How you've had it, how you have it set up, and the hunting is best in the world, but the people, and like, the, that, that moment last night, it's just, to me, that's what I think gets missed by people who don't hunt, who don't understand this lifestyle,

• 27:25Cameron Hanes?

  is they miss that, the fellowship part of what last night, and why that night was so special.

• 27:31Speaker 03

  Oh, well, I'll remember it forever.

• 27:32Cameron Hanes?

  Aside from the buck being killed, because I was looking at the videos, and we got some pictures from last night, and it's just like, it's hard not to just go back and just be like, I don't know why I'm here, if I deserve to be here, but I'm, I'm thankful I am.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  You know, the crazy thing, when Roy and John left last night, they stopped me and they said, "I just want to tell you, man, that group of guys you got there is awesome." Said, "That was so much fun, coming here and, and being with you guys, and just the spirit, you know, the positivity, and the happiness, and the way you guys were all interacting." It's like, man, it was just like, nothing coming over here, nothing like it, coming over here and being with people like that. So he was, you know, he'd never met either one of y'all, but, or all, any three of y'all. And, uh, man, he was just so complimentary of, of how everybody was carrying themselves and behaving and...

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Imagine how most of the time when he's going, people are probably pretty anxious, you know, they're in an anxious position of worried about finding something. But I think that after hearing about the shot and everything, I think everybody felt good and confident, so that, yeah, that, that...

• 28:38Cameron Hanes?

  We're gonna get him.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a good spirit last night.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  There's a, there's a fine line when you get to the level of, you know, where we all are at, to where... You're looking for mature animals, you know, and it can almost come across to some people as snobby. Like, oh, man, oh, they're talking about one eighties like they're just walking around everywhere. Well, everybody knows one eighty, just don't walk around everywhere. Obviously, you do the right things and you got the right places across the country. The potential of that is there, but I will say in your pursuit for high scoring animals, whereas to put them in a safari club or Boone and Crockett or Pocahontas. If you're missing that element, what you talked about Cameron last night, none of it's worth it.

• 29:19Speaker 02

  Because I do know, I do know some people that have killed giant deer animals all across the world and they're sitting in a lonely dusty, you know, trophy room, smoking a Cuban cigar by themself. They have made no friends and they've got a lot of deer in the Boone and Crockett, you know, and stuff, but they have not made any friends. And I, and, and so soon as anything, even though we can brag about the whitetails and brag about the resources, if you're not making friends and your trophies ain't the friends and the looking back and Cameron, so crazy goofball, throws the deer over his shoulders. And dude, he's like, I can tote them out. And dude, I was like, man, I've been wanting to see this. So, man, we loaded. Hundred ninety pound buck. Yeah, hundred ninety pound buck.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  We loaded it and dude, he smelled like a skunk last night. I was like, man, we get riding the same truck and it's like, thank God, man. I'm glad I ain't riding, we were riding together. I was like, man. And Cameron totaled that deer out and we were high fiving and, you know, got him a, what, two or three hundred, three hundred yards closer. Then we could get to the truck, but I, just all of it. That was impressive. If you, but if you ain't got that part of it and that coming back, we ate a dang ribeye steak, that, that, I felt was guilty eating that sucker. But you know what? I got over it. Cause I went to sleep and I ate that sucker. And, uh, I don't know, man. You're right. It's like, but, but when you can combine both. Yeah. Cause I'm, I'm like Cameron's, I've gotten older.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  If I can go to a good camp and I could go with a couple of five squirrel dogs and if I got good folks and campfire and, uh, you know, and a good, good swig of whiskey around a campfire and stories and talking about our families and our youngins and, and what we've done and. I know it sounds crazy, but it's so unbelievable special and I think it does come with maturity and age. We've all have gotten to that point. I mean, Brian and I had met, but you know, we was hugging like we was brothers, you know, just talking about things that we've seen in life and you know, it's like immediately and so, I don't know. And I do think, you know, as we talk about the trophies, that is one thing I think, I don't know if it's a hunting industry thing

• 31:27Speaker 02

  or a quest for trophies, if you miss that other part of it, it really is a waste of money and a very big

• 31:37Speaker 03

  A waste of your life.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  It's a waste of your life.

• 31:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, a waste of your life compared to what's possible.

• 31:42Cameron Hanes?

  There's gonna be a hole there. There's gonna be something missing.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:45Cameron Hanes?

  You're gonna have that, as you mentioned, you're gonna have that animal, but I don't know, I just, that's why I say, I don't know if people realize how special it is.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't think some people do.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't think many.

• 31:56Speaker 02

  I don't think hunters do, but I got, cause I think it gets so competitive.

• 31:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  And I see it in the hunting industry and Cameron might see this, you know, Cameron and I can show up, say at the Archery Trade Association or maybe the shot show and we can walk around and talk about where we want to go get us a dinner or whatever it is, you know, and and then we'll see, I feel like at times there, and I've definitely seen it with he and I with other people, it's like it's a sword fight or something like, "Bro, man, we just here working, we want, you know, how's your kids, how's your wives?" You know, like, you know, you know, and they show up like, "Well, I killed this, this," like, and I don't care. But I sure do wish we could go have a good time. Y'all wanna go roll some dice tonight and have a good time and high five?

• 32:37Speaker 02

  And so, it's almost like you think, it's a misconception without the friendships and without the understanding, like, first time meeting Jerry, I know how passionate he is of a trophy hunter from elk to deer. But unless I can respect Jerry and know him for the man he is, I can't be proud of him if he kills a 193. And in reality, did it change my view of Jerry because he killed a 193? Not at all. I'd already just from a brief conversation know he's a good dude and knowing that that's his goal, I can love the fact that he accomplished his goal. It don't change my perspective of what I think of him, vice versa, you know? Me and you don't have to text each other like, "Hey, just killed this or that," we already got a lot of respect. But if I know your goal was to say...

• 33:22Speaker 02

  I want to kill a four hundred inch bull. Is it gonna change the way your wife looks at you? Is it gonna change the way your young'un looks at you? Not at all.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  It depends on how supportive.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  But you know, at the end of the day, but if they love you or respect you, they happy for you because they know it meant something to you.

• 33:41Speaker 03

  Right.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  No different than you finishing the marathon. You don't, you ain't got a race in the marathon for somebody to look at Cameron and say, man, he's accomplished. But when I see it now, being, I've known him a long time, like, that joker, no wonder he towed that buck out. He's still, he's still driving to, to finish this marathon in the top ten. He don't need to do that, but I'm proud and I respect it. But a lot of people think that, okay, if I kill a two hundred inch deer, everybody's gonna love me. You, that ain't gonna make nobody love you.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  More people are gonna hate you than love you.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. But, uh, I don't know, I just think it's.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  First time I met him, I asked him, I said, you know, you run, huh? He goes, yeah. I said, what's the longest race you ever ran? He said, two hundred and fifty miles.

• 34:23Speaker 03

  How long did it take you to finish? He's like, I don't know, like seventy something, eighty hours. Did you sleep? No, I only slept an hour because you can't, you can't win if you sleep. Like, my God.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  He is an animal.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, he is definitely an animal.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  I tell the story, I tell the story about Cameron. I, I love the story because, uh, we met a long, long time ago. We talked about it on one of the Keep Hammering collective podcasts. We, we were talking about it and it's crazy because at the time he and I didn't even one knew. We knew in the hunting industry, he was riding, I was helping guide turkey hunters and I just started a little doing, dabbing around with that Realtree Road Trips TV show and, um, we were just talking like, man, this is awesome. And then so throughout our career, everyone, we'd run into each other at industry shows and stuff and keep in contact a little bit. But in reality, we kind of fell out of touch outside of some mutual friends. And so when we finally hooked back up though, we'd see each other at different shows. He shot Hoyt bows his whole career, I have too. And so I remember Cameron, we showed up and I was so exhausted.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  We started bomb plester and Cameron, he says, hey, man. He was like, he said, we, we, we're thinking about getting, get a bunch of, it's gonna go run in the morning. It's like in Indianapolis, well, it's like ten degrees outside. And I'm sitting here, I'm hunting down a, a nutty bar like a little Debbie cake, you know? I said, no, Cameron, I am not getting up and. And dude, these suckers get up and run off dude. I'm like, man, this dude is an animal, so.

• 35:45Speaker 03

  They get back about three in the afternoon.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  But that's, that's, that's the engine, that's the engine. I was thinking, man, I'm, I ain't got no youngins to take to school. I'm, I'm, I'm gonna sleep late, eat, eat, eat a big ol' continental breakfast or something somewhere, but anyway. I just have loved the fact of, of, of everything that's happened, and I think it was kinda cool to get off to be here. To like, you know, like you ain't gonna believe this place was, I know you've seen some cool places, but he, he was exactly right, and so it's, I don't know, it's been fun.

• 36:12Speaker 03

  Well, the coolest thing, you know, and this is unexpected for me, you know, I bought the place thinking my friends would come, we have a lot of friends and that I've known for a long time, and you know, we're like family.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  You can adopt me at, in camera.

• 36:27Cameron Hanes?

  I feel like we've really taken that next step in our relationship.

• 36:31Speaker 03

  And, you know, but the fact that, the fact that this place has facilitated getting to meet a lot of new people, Levi.

• 36:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, okay. Oh, I need to shout out to Levi, cause he's why I came here originally, so Levi Morgan, thank you.

• 36:45Speaker 03

  And, and the reason Levi came here is Keith Kelly, and the reason Keith Kelly came here is Hank Parker.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  I got you.

• 36:52Speaker 03

  And the reason Hank Parker came here is Jake's dad hunted with Hank Parker. So this, this whole spider web, this network of getting to know people, that otherwise I would never have had a chance to meet. And look, it's, for me, it's not because you guys are like the top of your field, it's not, it's not your name, it's who you are and how you got there. That is fascinating to me because the people that achieve excellence in whatever field they are, they have really special characteristics. And I love being around people like that. And, you know, especially, you know, happy people that are very successful, that share what we do, it is, it is like the biggest joy for me.

• 37:32Speaker 03

  Having folks like you in the camp, not cause you got a zillion Instagram followers, or you had a TV show, now you, it's, it's who you are. And the experiences that you bring here that really make it awesome for us.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  I mean, thank you, man, that.

• 37:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, thank you.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  That is true. But with the, without the ranch, we'd never had a chance to meet.

• 37:52Cameron Hanes?

  Well, we'd have that common.

• 37:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, it wouldn't have that common thread that brings it all together.

• 37:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's true. Um, I do, I wanna mention too, it's like, we're in a place now, cause we've all been through so much, where we can't appreciate other people's success. I think where I wish I could go back in time would be like when I was a young man. And it's like, everybody was competition. If, if you, if somebody else killed something, that was taking something away from me.

• 38:18Speaker 02

  One less that you could get.

• 38:19Cameron Hanes?

  Right. And so I had the hardest time where, and I, I'll, I'll just be honest, one time, I remember, I did see you as competition, you know, because you were the biggest name in hunting. And I remember, I think I were, I was doing something with Under Armour, and maybe you were too. This is like way, way back. And I remember you called and you said something like, uh, you know, hey, these, you know, these bass fishermen, you know, they, they tell each other what their deals are so they can, work together and get better deals. And I remember thinking, I'm not telling him what, what,

• 38:53Cameron Hanes?

  what are you, what are you talking about? I, you, I'm go, I'm trying to beat you.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  We just didn't know what the, we didn't know what the goalposts were.

• 39:02Cameron Hanes?

  No, we didn't know the, it, it, the game was really, but I just remember, so if I could go back at that time, because I think that we, or for me, I can't speak for you, but we weren't as close maybe as we could have been, because it was always like, I have to win. That's how.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  No, I agree. I mean, I was the same way. I, I was the same way. Um, it's like you know people are good people, and I always knew that. And I, and that just, I was the same way, very competitive. Like I can use Lee and Tiffany Lakowski. You know, loved them to death, but in my mind, I'm like, alright, gotta go kill a one eighty. Watch what I'll do. I'll outrate you with a damn squirrel show.

• 39:41Cameron Hanes?

  I'm just gonna come up with a few more jokes.

• 39:42Speaker 02

  You know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, and so it was that, and I, but I do think, and uh.

• 39:48Speaker 03

  It's kinda hard to beat Lee in the, in the deer.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  It is, I mean, honestly, you know, looking way back, me and Cameron were single fellows, we might have had a chance, but all we had was spikes in Oregon and men in Georgia, so we, no way we could have landed to Tidmouth, you know, so. But, uh, at, at the end of the day, man, I do think, uh, you know, as I'm speaking with Cameron, dude, I have told everybody, and it started, it's funny, I was sitting around and I'd always considered, you know, Cameron a friend, but you're right, it's like we was, we was, we was in the same industry, always high five and see each other, and always a joke or two, you know. I was a, you know, knee slapping old redneck, you know, and Cameron was a fitness guy, and I remember one time he'd be working a Bass Pro, and I'd be doing pushups in the back, and I'd be like, do fifteen, I'm like, I should have done it, and I'm like,

• 40:32Speaker 02

  choking myself over here, and I'd high five with Cameron, we'd always respectful, but, uh, I was literally, I, I had been around some squirrel hunting, and I, I'd gotten into some squirrel dogs, and so, I tell everybody as I gotten older, I loved to, like, trap, loved trapping cows, I loved squirrel hunting, my little dogs, my youngins, and, and anyway, I was somewhere, and somebody, I mean, somebody unlike that I thought would mention, he said, man, ain't you friends with Cameron Hanes? That guy's a, seemed like a good dude, and it hit me, I said, and immediately, I said, man, Cameron is a good dude, and it hit me, and I, so I quickly, then I was even embarrassed at that time, I was like, I was trying to find Cameron's number on my phone, and I had an old, old number, and, and, and I realized he probably had it,

• 41:14Speaker 02

  like, we hadn't even traded numbers, so I called around, and I texted Cameron that story, and he said, come out and do our podcast, and so, I tell everybody, that, that was a really cool moment, uh, to go out to Oregon, cause it, it, I think that's for me, I'm like, what the hell, dude?

• 41:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  We, we're like, bros, he's Oregon, I'm Georgia, but it's the same, we're the same age, same path, same things, and so, anyway, yeah, but you're exactly right to the same thing, it's almost like it was a, a, a, a view of a little competition, friend, friendly competition, and we were even on some of the same teams, you know, and so it just, uh, but that's the drive, how do you win a marathon? If you don't want to run over that guy in front of you.

• 41:52Cameron Hanes?

  That's I I don't know, and I don't know how I if I change it, but I just wish that the younger guys coming up could be a little more, just have a little more grace, maybe with people who are doing the trying to chase that same dream. And just be like, you know, you can still win, I can still win, you know, cause I cause I didn't look at it like that. So I'm just, all I'm bringing that up is I think we lost a lot of years of who knows, I mean, yeah, we'll make up for it now, but.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  A hundred percent we will.

• 42:20Cameron Hanes?

  But what could have been type thing, it's like, I just don't want young, other young guys to miss out on some brotherhood for years. Because too competitive and I don't, I say too competitive that, cause being competitive is a a great trait.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  Great trait, absolutely.

• 42:35Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, it's the reason why we're here.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 42:37Cameron Hanes?

  You have to, you have to want to win.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  You do.

• 42:39Cameron Hanes?

  At life, right?

• 42:40Speaker 02

  You got to.

• 42:40Cameron Hanes?

  And that's, I mean, that's a call out to kind of to your, to Brian's new book. But, uh, yeah, I just, and I don't even even really need to or know how to put into words what I want to say, but.

• 42:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's just not all life or death struggle.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  I completely get it.

• 42:57Cameron Hanes?

  Against other men.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  But time, time gives you a different perspective.

• 43:00Cameron Hanes?

  It does, yeah, you gotta mature.

• 43:01Speaker 03

  I could tell the same stories you were telling, but just competitive in a different way.

• 43:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  As you get, as you get older, you get a different view of it.

• 43:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 43:09Speaker 03

  Plus, I think being successful actually puts you in.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  Well, it gives you a sense of security.

• 43:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, a sense of security. And so it makes having that view a little easier.

• 43:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 43:18Speaker 03

  On the top than when you're on the bottom.

• 43:20Cameron Hanes?

  Sure, yeah.

• 43:21Speaker 03

  I think it's age and.

• 43:21Cameron Hanes?

  It's easy for you to say.

• 43:23Speaker 03

  It's easy for you to say, it's age and success puts you in a better position to appreciate that.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  And and amount of failure too, it's funny, I tell people all the time, it's like, you know, it's easy to to look at somebody's success, but people's failures, or at least mine, have taught me more than even success, cause like you said, it could be something miniscule and like I've learned too, is like as Cameron and I were talking about how we were kind of on the same team and probably didn't do as much together as we could have and and should have i- and when we were a little younger. Now, obviously, we're making up for some of that lost time, but, um, two, if you look about our true job. Is not even to kill deer. It really is to tell the story of what the hunting culture's all about. But then if you look at all the lanes where I grew up in the south and, you

• 44:07Speaker 02

  know, I love turkey. That's one thing, you know, got in common with a Jake, Alabama boy. And so, you know, out west, a lot of people are not diehard. So, but with that, you create these lanes. And so through those lanes, you know, Cameron going out west, me in the south. Another thing that's crazy is Cameron talked about some of the different brands or even maybe some whether it's YouTube or podcasts. What you can do is so easy to reintroduce people to different audiences and for a fan base that Cameron has that maybe is a certain demographic, still common denominator of buying a hunt license, buying a Hoyt. He can introduce me to them and they realize like, well, why the hell guys, he

• 44:52Speaker 02

  seemed like he'd be fun to be around. Vice versa, it's more hard hitting rednecks in Georgia. Okay. Sitting around drinking a Budweiser who, you know, grew up hunting and fishing. They're like, man, that Cameron's a good dude, man. He, you know, and next thing you know, you got old Uncle Scott Steiner trying to put a deer around his neck and walk him out and we're picking on him and laughing. And so that's the thing that I think too is like, okay, when you, when you get to that place, you miss the opportunity to grow the messaging. Yeah. And now you look at someone like Cameron who's real good friends with Joe of getting on those podcasts to talk about Renella. You look at the opportunities we have and the different people we've had a chance to be around and, and talk about. And so it's not even, it's not even self righteous that we can even drop names. It's the fact that

• 45:37Speaker 02

  it's pretty cool that where we come from, we can be in these rooms around these people to talk about things that's been life changing for us, but they're also life changing for anybody that takes it. Nobody who steps into a place where there's Cactus Jack or a, or a Mead lease in Georgia or Louisiana, this, you know, 400 acres and 10 members. You go sitting around and around a camera and eat chili. Maybe this drank a cold beer. You get talking, telling jokes and. Maybe you see. And you don't even think about hunting. Like, man, this is what I've been missing in life. And I think Cameron and I have had a chance to see it from a perspective too of, of some of these celebrities that grew up in Hollywood that have chased really this things that glitter and gold and fame and fortune only to realize.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  Really, the best thing they found was what we had a chance to introduce them to, which was, you know, whitetail buck deer, you know, a gobbling turkey. And that, that is amazing, like blows my mind, actually. And, uh, so that, that, that's pretty cool. And so now, I think, with maturity, we realize that, and that's a, well, to be honest, it's a hell of a responsibility, I think, you know.

• 46:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I mean, you guys, I think, are taking that responsibility because you're very authentic. I think that's why people like to listen to you. You know, you tell it the way you see it. You may not have it right, but that's, you speak your mind. And, you know, people respect that.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:56Speaker 03

  You know, some people don't, because they don't want to hear anybody else's opinion. But those that have a brain and think about things, they value people who are authentic. And, you know, that's one thing that both of you guys bring, that I love about you is the authenticity. You're not, you know, it may be more politically expedient for you not to say some of the things that you say, but that's not who you are, and that's not what you believe in.

• 47:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 47:18Speaker 03

  And, you know, I, I just, I got a lot of personal time for that. Authentic people are the people you want to be around.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, like I said, that, what's that old saying? Sometimes the most offensive thing that you can hear is the truth. And, you know, my best friends and the people who love me the most, sometimes they'll say, you know, what the hell, this, this, and this, you know, or like, you know, and I'm like, and first I'd be like, you know, then I think, Lord, they are right, you know, if, if it's a buddy, you know, it's like, you know, have a casual drink, and all of a sudden, it's like, dude, hey buddy, I, I enjoy you, but every time I'm around you, you, you ain't just drinking, you drunk. And, and man, I'm talking about, you want to step on a buddy's toes, you're telling something like that.

• 47:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  Or vice versa. It can be somebody that, you know, as we're talking about these giant deer, like, bro, you have forgotten, we come from Georgia, there's nothing wrong, a hundred and forty inch mature buck is still a big deer, Polka Young's one twenty-five.

• 48:10Speaker 03

  It's an accomplishment.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  It's, it's okay to remind, like, that's still a good buck, Jerry, or, hey, you know, Hank Parker, that's still a giant buck, like.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  You know what it is?

• 48:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  It is a good book, you know, we got better, but that's still a, I mean, I saw, I'm not exaggerating, of course y'all know, because y'all, I saw fifteen different bucks this morning, and that sounds like a live, but I got them all on video. That would have been life-changing bucks for many of my friends in Georgia.

• 48:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Regardless of their age, I'm talking about what they had on there.

• 48:40Cameron Hanes?

  People would be talking about it.

• 48:41Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:42Cameron Hanes?

  You see that buck that?

• 48:43Speaker 02

  Bro, they would still be riding them around. They, they, they would be somewhere over by Mineral Wells by now, some sporting store, Waffle House, showing them off. Guaranteed.

• 48:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I know.

• 48:55Speaker 02

  Guaranteed.

• 48:56Cameron Hanes?

  It, it's amazing. It's a, yeah.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  With a loudspeaker, they'd have one in Bullhorn. Everybody. Just trying to show you my buck, ladies and gentlemen, specifically ladies, if y'all want to come gather around. This is an eight-point buck, approximately four years of age. I think he's gonna get into the Pope and Young record books yet.

• 49:17Cameron Hanes?

  I'd kill them.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  Right, right?

• 49:20Cameron Hanes?

  That's exactly right. Yeah, no, it's a, one thing that I do think that, you know, we talked about, uh, sharing our love of the sport and one thing, I, I know I've mentioned on my podcast, but I think it's becoming more evident now, it's how lucky we are to, to be grown, grown up and be part of this lifestyle, because you see people that have chased other things, the money, the houses, the cars, the women type thing, and they're kind of now, society is shifting a little bit, and now they're looking at us going, I don't know shit about hunting, but that looks amazing. That, I don't know anything about what these guys are doing.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:56Cameron Hanes?

  But there's something inside, I think, all humans, because that's how we survive, is being hunters, but they see this lifestyle and they're just feel like they're missing something, because it is so, you mentioned authentic, which I kind of hate that word, because it's just like, that means like there's something other, like being fake, apparently.

• 50:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, they definitely shouldn't be in fact.

• 50:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, but being authentic, a lot of fake, being authentic shouldn't be really celebrated, but it is, just because.

• 50:22Speaker 02

  Because there's only fake people in there.

• 50:24Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah, but they see this lifestyle and they see the, how authentic it is, and they see the, the true joy or happiness or fellowship, as I mentioned a few times now, but, um, and they realize that there's something special about what these guys are doing. And it's been, this way of life has been around forever, but there's a certain segment of society even more nowadays. That's, doesn't know anything about it, that's missed out on it. So it just makes you feel how lucky we are to be hunters. And to have this, and I mean.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  And to be passionate about something.

• 50:59Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah, just.

• 51:00Speaker 03

  I mean, I've got, I've got a lot of colleagues, okay, I was about to retire, I should have retired a few years ago, but I hung on to work longer, but uh. They've retired and they don't have a passion. And they just sit around, you know, watching TV, looking at their bank statements, like.

• 51:15Cameron Hanes?

  I get messages.

• 51:16Speaker 03

  Man, you know, get a life. And some of them, some of the authentic ones come to me and say, man, I'm really jealous of you now. I thought you were crazy for so many years doing this, but I'm jealous because you have these things that you love to do.

• 51:29Cameron Hanes?

  Most people I see, they're like, they don't know what their passion is, or they don't know what, like, how did you know that you wanted to be a bow hunter? And I'm just like, I, I mean, I just, well, what we do.

• 51:40Speaker 03

  This is like, that's who I was.

• 51:42Cameron Hanes?

  In a small town where I was from, whoever killed a big buck, you're like, guy's a badass.

• 51:48Speaker 02

  That's exactly right.

• 51:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, guys, like, if you killed a big buck, you were, it didn't matter if you had a fucking good job.

• 51:55Speaker 02

  You sit in the dark and kind of, you're in a stock.

• 51:57Cameron Hanes?

  Killed a giant buck.

• 51:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, tell me about your buck.

• 52:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, and it's like, uh, so that, when you grow up revering things like death, and that's our path that we choose to go down. It's hard to think back what, why this is our passion, but you, with people who have had that in their life, they feel this hole. And so, I don't know, I love bridging that gap, and I know, I know you've taken Theo Vaughn and Caleb, can't remember his last name, but uh. You take new hunters a lot. Um, I love taking new hunters, same thing, because I just have so much love for this, what we do. You want other people to get it too, and some, some of you take them out there, they don't get it. And they might never hunt again.

• 52:39Speaker 03

  They're not wired that way.

• 52:40Cameron Hanes?

  No, but some will be like, like Rogan, for example.

• 52:43Speaker 03

  He just took to it.

• 52:44Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, he's just ate up with it, you know, he's, you know, texting me every day about archery gear and. Different hunts and sending videos, and it's like, uh, then, so there's guys like that, that it's just like, this is what I was missing my whole life. So, I don't know, I feel pretty like about that. Do you have any thoughts on that, Brian?

• 53:02Speaker 01

  Well, I wrote about that in my book, and I think it's because you have. You have thousands of years where people did it as a means of survival. And I think that's why we smile in our hunting pictures and stuff. Because you know now you're gonna feed your family, you're gonna live another day. Your tribe is gonna live another day. And so for millenniums for that to be kind of ground into your DNA. It's absolutely gonna be part of who we are. But now with stores and convenience and all that. You know, you've got this growing segment of society that is separated from that. And that celebration, you know, of life continuing. And how can we expect those people to understand it if they haven't been connected to it? And how many times have you taken a new hunter out?

• 53:47Speaker 01

  And you have that, some of them aren't gonna get it. But then there's others where it's like, boom, they just are like, this is what I, this is something I'm supposed to be doing. You know, this is.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  And it is a connection that I think goes way back in time. Because it happened for so long and it was so core to our ability to, to survive that. How could it not be?

• 54:10Speaker 02

  Hundred percent. As a matter of fact, the, the more you connect to nature. It kind of helps you understand a lot about human nature and how there is some very unique differences between, say, nature and human nature. And there's a lot of things that, you know, we, we think of, but it's not necessarily nature driven. And so I've always seen that the more you're grounded with understanding just the way deer move, what they do, how they breed, how they feed. You know, whether it's nocturnal, vice versa, turkeys, deer, elk, and even now into the fisheries and flocks. When you start, which first of all, you never master it because there's so much, there's so much simplicity, but it's so insanely complicated.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  And it almost, you know, for me, you know, even, even, e- even from a religious standpoint, it's like, you know, you sit back and you think and it's like, man, I'm reminded. Even through a good bit of hail raising in my life, I'm like, man, there's a God. I, I, and reasons, because I'm just, I woke up at daylight at Cactus Jack. There's no, there's no way, you know, I was, I was standing on a mountain in Utah in elk season and I'm like. Hear an elk dogle and, and then all of a sudden I'm standing there and it starts sleeting snow and I was just hot because I walked in there and it was warm. I'm like, what is, okay, there, there, there's a good lord because you know, oh, be still and be quiet. And I'm like, you know, and so I don't know. I, I think it's the biggest blessing. Like I said, you know, I take pride in it, but I'm always careful on the pride because

• 55:35Speaker 02

  most time my pride is usually what's got me in trouble. But yeah, it's, it's a blessing to, to gnaw on it and see it. And when you get a chance to introduce, I always cut up when you get into two seedy slickers that, that bridge the gap, not necessarily just killing an animal.

• 55:49Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 55:50Speaker 02

  But all of a sudden there's somewhere in the blind and it's almost like, oh my God, I just see it. We're going back and we're going to eat chili around a campfire.

• 55:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  Somebody told me there's ham in the chili.

• 56:02Cameron Hanes?

  (laughing).

• 56:03Speaker 02

  And they got a cooler of cold natty lights and somebody said they got some cigars and they're going to be telling stories. Cameron's coming tonight and and I just got a text, Jerry got one shot.

• 56:17Cameron Hanes?

  (laughing).

• 56:18Speaker 02

  And it's almost like,

• 56:21Cameron Hanes?

  That's a good life.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Let's go, baby.

• 56:23Cameron Hanes?

  It's a party.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  It's, it's, and it's such a simple, authentic, I mean, innocent.

• 56:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Everything you just mentioned, how basic is that?

• 56:32Speaker 02

  Basic.

• 56:33Cameron Hanes?

  Chili with ham, maybe a cold beer. This is like who, everybody has access to that, but it's because it's this setting is what makes it special.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:41Cameron Hanes?

  You know, it's a, yeah.

• 56:42Speaker 02

  The last thing you want to be after you think of that and you experience that is the thought of being at a rave.

• 56:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 56:48Speaker 02

  You're like, ah, what are we doing?

• 56:51Speaker 01

  The best things in life are not things.

• 56:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:55Cameron Hanes?

  That's right.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  You're right. Exactly. You're right.

• 56:58Cameron Hanes?

  It doesn't matter what you have. If you don't have people to share it with, you don't have anything.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  Fact, fact, fact.

• 57:03Speaker 02

  I'll tell you, the craziest conversation I had and, um, as Cameron's talking about people we've met and hunted with, him getting Joe Rogan into just a passionate elk hunter, like passive elk hunter, um. Blake Shelton, who did grow up country and hunting, country singer, but you know, moved to LA and made really pretty much his money out there in LA, out there in Hollywood. Well, now he's retired and getting back into it. And so from that, he's made a lot of friends. And I remember Gwen, his wife, had some writers in from LA, one from overseas, I think it was. Or maybe she was from overseas, lived in LA. But anyway, they come to the ranch to write for the four days, four or five days while we were hunting. So we were staying in a little

• 57:47Speaker 02

  camp in Oklahoma and Gwen had her artistic friends over there working on her two new singles. And so, which I thought was cool because I was dying to go there and hear what they was working on because it's Gwen Stefani, you know.

• 57:59Speaker 03

  It's like magic. For us, it's like magic stuff.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  Yes, it's magic. So I was dying. And then come to find out, all of a sudden, two of those guys, one was a songwriter, had just been working with, from everybody from Cardi B to Adam Levine and Maroon 5. And I love music, so I'm intrigued by that. So those guys and another was the guitar player for Machine Gun Kelly, and he's a writer and like does all this producing stuff. So they were dying to get over to our side over there to see what Blake had going on in the hunting side because they're from LA, never participated in hunting, but just wanted to see what it was about. So by the time they pulled up, I had just fried up some cubed deer steak. We'd got the backstrap and I'd cubed it out and fried, this old country fried cubed steak. Nick Muppets there, whooped up a big old thing of mashed potatoes and gravy. And we're just boy scouts, you know. And so I

• 58:47Speaker 02

  was like, y'all ever eat deer? Like, no. And so they're eating deer. Oh, my God, that's the best I ever ate, dude. Like, you know, how do we harvest one, dude? And I like, and I knew then, like, we got them. So we got to the point, Gwen had this like, like, get back over here. Y'all have been kidnapped by my husband and his friends. Like, come back. And so later, we rode, Blake rode around the ranch and showed them a few deer, and that's all from turkey runoff and stuff and hogs. And so one of them ended up, went and got his hunter's safety course and now hunts in just out of LA now. And so that night around the dinner table, he was telling me, man, I've done good. I made, I made some money. And he said, but man, just like you said, I feel like there's something missing. He said, man, I've just always somehow thought about hunting, but I just thought

• 59:32Speaker 02

  it was unattainable. And, um, In any way, when he said that, I thought about what he was saying and he was basically thinking about the roots of all his success of doing everything. Musically, he was made a lot of his accomplishments. But I said something to him and it hit me because it set true with me and I think as hunters, even though, you know, we've had a certain amount of success around certain areas. I said, "Man, you know, when you know, you understand nature and understand hunting and you got a certain group of friends," I said, "You're never afraid of losing at all because you can lose it all and still gain a lot." And, and, and when I said it to him, I almost had really reminded, said it to myself, I was thinking,

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  "You, you really can't fail. If you go bankrupt, if you lose everything, certainly, I, I certainly don't wish Jerry ever loses Cactus Jack." But, but my point is, when you rooted with that, it's like you got your family, you got a handful of friends. Yes, you might not be hunting 190-inch deer, but the fundamental opportunity to, to take a little old dog and go tree some squirrels or go rabbit hunting or kill your doe and backstrap some cube steak and make some canned chili. You, you really have won. Because like you said, it ain't the things because you got the one thing that matters the most. Not to say materialistically, a man shouldn't have the right to work hard to get a better car, a better home, swimming pool.

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  But for me, it's like I remind myself, and that's what makes places like this even special because it's like, "Holy cow, I got the cake. Now I get to see what some of this icing tastes like too." So it's a, yeah, that's, that's sincere in, in the thought process of, of where I'm at. But it took me to the age I am to even, for it all to come together.

• 1:01:14Speaker 03

  Same for me.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know what I mean?

• 1:01:16Speaker 03

  It, it, you just change in life and you get a different perspective. It's better.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  It is better. It is better. I agree.

• 1:01:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's a, been a hell of a journey here. Brian, like, for what you've seen, you've hunted like a lot of the best places down, down here.

• 1:01:36Cameron Hanes?

  One thing that I was curious about, Jerry can chime in on this too, but it's like the body size of these bucks, it's like to me, it seems like it's way different than the other South Texas deer. And I, I don't know, kind of play into this real quick, but we talked about hunting being under DNA for, for eons. And it remind, you said something about like, I think the minerals and the structure of the deer, the bones, the head size. These deer have changed over time, probably because of the soil.

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  Epigenetics.

• 1:02:08Cameron Hanes?

  And epigenetics, right. And, and so, but then you have almost two different species because you have the giant bodied bucks, which are up to what, 270 some pounds.

• 1:02:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, we killed 278 this year.

• 1:02:21Cameron Hanes?

  And then you, then, then there's giant bucks that weigh one set, 100 pounds difference.

• 1:02:26Speaker 03

  100 pounds difference.

• 1:02:27Cameron Hanes?

  So, talk to me about the, the species you've hunted and if this is different from that and what you've noticed.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think all over South Texas, but even everywhere that I've hunted whitetail, but you would see the same that it's often that there's two different types of deer in any given location. I think a lot of it's the length of their body, but also back to the nutrition part. If you've got that foundation, it's a lot like a, a, a, an elite athlete who is on the proper, you know, they're dialed in on the food, they're dialed in on the supplements, they're dialed in on their, their sleep and their, the way they work out. All that stuff is all dialed and that's what you get here. And they call it the golden triangle of Texas, that, that is where the genetics and the range the, the is, is completely dialed for, for deer.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  But even within that, it's just like people. You know, you've got big people and small people and, and everywhere that I've hunted in Texas and I, you know, the deer in East Texas and the deer in West Texas look different. The deer in South Texas look different than just north of highway 90, the hill country deer. They all, they, they're like completely different looking deer. But within each of those areas and within South Texas.

• 1:03:43Speaker 03

  You're gonna have those two types. They can still be giant in the antler department and they can still be fat and fool you. They look like a really big, you know, heavy bodied deer, but it's a shorter torso deer or a shorter legged deer and they're just a more compact deer. And if you don't see them next to one of those big ones, you don't necessarily know it. But here, everything is so dialed for the nutrition and the management of the genetics and so forth for, for age, um, that I think it's, it's where the antlers are, are the more consistent thing. The body sizes are just very different.

• 1:04:21Cameron Hanes?

  Do you, that, that, I had a question then. Do you look at these deer, because of all the experience you've had now, cause say for example, you could have a two hundred inch rack on a three hundred pound deer, it's gonna look different than a two hundred inch rack on a hundred and seventy pound deer. So are you looking at like the perspective of that rack compared to the deer size? Cause you could overestimate the size of the antlers.

• 1:04:46Speaker 03

  You have to.

• 1:04:46Cameron Hanes?

  Because the head's bigger, so the antlers looks like that.

• 1:04:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, no doubt about it. I mean, the body size can really mess you up. You know, the times that we've misjudged deer has been based on assuming a certain body size and being wrong about it.

• 1:05:00Cameron Hanes?

  Right, okay.

• 1:05:01Speaker 03

  You know, early on, like the second year we were here, first year we were here, you know, I bought the place, I had a few friends came. We had more big deer than we had people to shoot, you know, so Tim, your guy, it's like, oh, there's, there's deer over there, why don't you go shoot it? So he goes, he hunts it for, you know, two or three weeks, couldn't find it. Finally, he shoots it. He called me, his boss, he goes, um, remember you told me I could shoot this one. I'm like, yeah, I did, Tim. He goes, okay. He goes, I just want to remind you of that. I said, so what's up? He goes, man, we walked over there that deer. He goes, I couldn't move him. Said he was so big, he said, we couldn't move him. He said, and his horns are giant.

• 1:05:45Speaker 03

  He says, not what we thought he was. He's a lot bigger than we thought he was.

• 1:05:49Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:05:49Speaker 03

  I'm like, okay, well, that's no problem. Yeah. But, but you can, you can really misjudge.

• 1:05:54Cameron Hanes?

  Cause that buck's over two hundred, wasn't it?

• 1:05:56Speaker 03

  Oh, Lord. I mean, yeah.

• 1:05:58Cameron Hanes?

  How many two inches?

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  No, no, that one was like a hundred and ninety-four.

• 1:06:02Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:06:02Speaker 03

  That other one he shot was, it was actually. He's only six, six inches shot. The other one I call pin cushion, he shot was a two oh five.

• 1:06:10Cameron Hanes?

  Gotcha.

• 1:06:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, he shot that with his pistol. That was another. We didn't have many people hunting and it's like, we had more two hundreds than I wanted to shoot, so it's like ten. Go down there with a pistol and shoot that thing. I love it.

• 1:06:25Speaker 03

  It shot a two oh five and it won the big deer contest with a pistol. That's unbelievable. It's, it's in there.

• 1:06:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:33Speaker 03

  But it was one of, it was in the same area that deer shot last night.

• 1:06:37Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:06:37Speaker 03

  So deer shot last night in the, in the spectrum of large, it's probably on the lower quartile of a mature.

• 1:06:44Cameron Hanes?

  What do you mean?

• 1:06:45Speaker 03

  Just body wise.

• 1:06:46Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:06:47Speaker 03

  A hundred and ninety pound deer for us here is a small deer.

• 1:06:50Cameron Hanes?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:06:50Speaker 03

  It's very small.

• 1:06:51Cameron Hanes?

  That's what I, that was the point I was, I was getting to, but that would affect how I am judging the deer if I was the one. And you guys are so good, you're to the inch, it just seems like.

• 1:06:59Speaker 03

  Well, not to the inch, but maybe two and five, two and five, most of the time.

• 1:07:04Cameron Hanes?

  Pretty close. And I was thinking to myself, I was like, God, I could really screw this up, cause I've been at San Carlos and there's been some small bodied bulls that.

• 1:07:14Speaker 03

  Mess you up.

• 1:07:15Cameron Hanes?

  That met, I, I killed a bull that we called Dagger and I thought he was over four hundred and then I, it just, it looked like he was gutted before I even gutted him. He's just like.

• 1:07:26Speaker 03

  Just was smaller.

• 1:07:27Cameron Hanes?

  And kinda small. And so those antlers look giant, but, but his relative, you know, he's like three eighty, which is still a giant bull.

• 1:07:35Speaker 03

  That's a big bear.

• 1:07:36Cameron Hanes?

  But it's a, it's not four hundred because of that body messed up the, that perspective, but.

• 1:07:41Speaker 03

  But the bodies are, are really can throw you off.

• 1:07:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:44Speaker 03

  You know, the deer that I shot last night, I was a little hesitant to shoot him.

• 1:07:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:48Speaker 03

  Because I knew he was a small body.

• 1:07:49Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:07:50Speaker 03

  And and I thought we might get some ground shrinkage, but you know, we didn't get the ground shrinkage on him. But but it's it is a way that you really have to be careful.

• 1:08:00Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  Well, look at the UFC. There's weight classes from one twenty-five all the way up to, you know, the two sixty-five limit on heavyweight. And those people, you know, the in the heavyweight division, might be an American guy, and there might be another American guy in the bantamweight division, you know, and they're it's the same country, same people eating the same stuff. But just different bodies.

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  Hundred percent. Yeah, definitely.

• 1:08:24Speaker 03

  And you know, the horns could just be like looks. Some people are handsome like Waddell and some of the horns.

• 1:08:29Speaker 02

  No, no, about that.

• 1:08:32Speaker 03

  It's just the looks.

• 1:08:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's a well, I I was curious too. Um, so we know how great it is. We know the history of it. What's the goal for for the ranch? I mean, what's your goal with this? You're going to be retiring. So where do you see Cactus Jack going?

• 1:08:48Speaker 03

  We're just going to keep pushing the envelope.

• 1:08:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  Trying to make it better and better, you know, and I'm I'm really blessed. You know, my my son enjoys the ranch. My daughter and and her husband.

• 1:08:59Cameron Hanes?

  Killed a grand buck the other day.

• 1:09:00Speaker 03

  Oh, he did. Yeah, he killed a one ninety-seven, ten points, better than one. Uh, but they they really love it. And and Jake's going to be a part of it for the long haul. He loves it. So, you know, he's my adopted son now.

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  So, yeah.

• 1:09:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's a good guy. You can't you can't help but love Jake.

• 1:09:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:19Speaker 03

  So he's part of the family now. And, you know, the the plan is just going to be a legacy that lives on way past me. And that the kids are going to run it. And they they love it. They're going to try to make it better and better.

• 1:09:31Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:09:32Speaker 03

  Uh, so, you know, we're we got to put it in a position where it's financially viable because it's not for the faint of heart.

• 1:09:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:39Speaker 03

  Owning and running something like this. But, uh, yeah, we're working on that. So that's the plan is the future. We've got a lot of people interested in buying it like, oh, how about I sell it?

• 1:09:50Speaker 02

  Can't replace it.

• 1:09:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can't replace it. If I sell it, I'm out.

• 1:09:53Cameron Hanes?

  I would, I would.

• 1:09:54Speaker 03

  I'm done with whitetail hunting, you know, I'll just do my elk hunting thing.

• 1:09:58Cameron Hanes?

  Don't sell it.

• 1:09:59Speaker 03

  No, no, no, I'm not gonna sell it. I have no interest in that.

• 1:10:03Cameron Hanes?

  Unless it's one of us.

• 1:10:04Speaker 03

  I'd have to elk hunt full time, but you know, I could, I could handle that too. That's one thing the three of us share is a love for elk hunting too.

• 1:10:11Speaker 02

  Oh, that is amazing.

• 1:10:12Cameron Hanes?

  I know, yeah, there's noth- nothing, I mean, I don't know. Big, big old anything I like, but for sure, big bulls and.

• 1:10:19Speaker 03

  Greatness, greatness in any form is interesting.

• 1:10:22Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, it is, it is, uh, yeah, so I mean, I, I just wanna thank you for allowing me this opportunity, but then also allowing me to bring my friends and to have, share, you know, cause I knew last year when Levi brought me here, this is a special place, you know, I got to meet you and talk. And I just knew that the people that, that I know love the same things I love would appreciate Cactus Jack, just like these guys are. And still, I have to say again, still have not even killed a buck here and have all these glowing things to say about wh- what this is. And I, it's a testament to what you've built, but I just wanna thank you for allowing my friends to come and, and appreciate this.

• 1:11:01Speaker 03

  It's an honor.

• 1:11:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's a, I, I don't know, I, I don't have, I don't have much, I know you gotta get on a plane here heading back to Houston, but, uh, man, I just, I just wanted to say that.

• 1:11:13Speaker 03

  No, I appreciate it, you know, it, it's an honor having you here and the, and the kind of people, we have good people that come here, they bring good people. And it just grows the family, you know, we want you guys to come back, okay? You, you make this place better, because it is, it's half people and half deer. And I think we got a great combination and, and the whole vision, the vision is to have the best people in the world participating in this. Vision is have the best hunting ranch in the world, have the best people in the world participating.

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  And we're moving in that direction. That's right.

• 1:11:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:45Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 1:11:46Speaker 03

  I said, it's an honor having you here.

• 1:11:48Cameron Hanes?

  I do love, uh, Robin, great cook in there, and I know Tim helps her too, but just love Robin also.

• 1:11:55Speaker 03

  Oh, she's a wonderful.

• 1:11:56Cameron Hanes?

  Talk about staff here, um, yeah, she's just like, so, Cameron, tell me, so you don't like seafood?

• 1:12:05Cameron Hanes?

  You like vegetables? No. Just meat, but she was just like, have you got any clothes I can wash? Can I do a little, heard you got bloody last night. But it's just like, the nicest people. It's just like, so what if you, your goal to make it better, to elevate the experience? You're doing it. And I don't know what's gonna happen, but man, it's been amazing.

• 1:12:24Speaker 03

  Oh, I just want us to keep doing this. Keep having fun.

• 1:12:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:28Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, y'all are the exception. I always tell my friends, none of us are gonna get rich or famous doing this. Y'all probably done a pretty good job of that. But, but we're here just to have a good time. And have great people and do what we love and having y'all join is awesome.

• 1:12:43Cameron Hanes?

  Thank you. Do you guys have any closing thoughts here?

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  I'm just, can't express how thank, echoing, I can't, I've, I've grown up in Texas. I'm, I've been a fanatical bow hunter of whitetail my whole life. I love elk hunting and everything western. But it's, it's, when you grow up with whitetail, you always come back to them, right? It's always like, man, I can just do this. But, so I've seen it all over and this is the most incredible place to hunt whitetails I've ever seen. But going back to the earlier discussion, if it weren't for the people, it wouldn't matter, really.

• 1:13:18Speaker 03

  Agree.

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  And I, I think you get both here and it's just, you can't beat it. So, I'm thankful to be here, I'm thankful for the invite and I am, I hope to be here as long as it's here.

• 1:13:34Speaker 03

  Looking forward to having the guys back. I look forward to seeing the deer y'all gonna kill, cause you gonna kill. I can't wait.

• 1:13:39Speaker 01

  I can't wait either.

• 1:13:40Speaker 03

  You were saying, you ready to go back out there? We're gonna be like Chris Farley in that van down by the lake. We're staying with you, Jerry.

• 1:13:49Speaker 03

  We're not leaving this place.

• 1:13:51Cameron Hanes?

  The worst part is waiting for the next hunt here. Like, it's either like right now, waiting for the afternoon, or at night, waiting for the morning. You're just like, I just wanna knock myself out. I just wanna go to sleep, which is a light switch that would just turn me off, wake up, let's go hunt. Cause it's like, it's like the time in between, you're like, you just wanna get back out there and see what, what's gonna come in.

• 1:14:11Speaker 03

  I know, I know, man. I, I, it's, when you can, you know, sum up the fact.

• 1:14:17Speaker 02

  You can have this much fun and still be on this type of caliber of trophy. Because so many times, you know, you you hear people, you know, whether it's private or public, elk hunting versus, you know, high desert mule deer hunting, or or maybe you're going into Canada for different things. And obviously, whatever your goal can dictate, whether it is extremely physical or harsh conditions or cold, or or you gotta be physically fit in order to get up where the sheep hunting. But when you can have this mature animals and and to hunt, you know, three or four hours in the morning, three or four at night, and have the opportunity to see it, and then eat this kind of food,

• 1:14:58Speaker 02

  tell these kind of stories and laugh and cut up, add jokes to your, you know, joke book with people in camp. And uh, it really, it just, it's hard to get better. I mean, how how, you know, like I say, you know, if somebody were to out hunt you, it'd be hard to out fund you down here. You can't, it's just.

• 1:15:16Speaker 03

  That's the goal, man.

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  It's just fun, it's fun, and you got.

• 1:15:18Speaker 03

  Making life good.

• 1:15:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:20Speaker 03

  It's just making life good.

• 1:15:21Cameron Hanes?

  If we just had Bo Cepha sitting right here.

• 1:15:23Speaker 03

  We need to know what else you got.

• 1:15:27Speaker 03

  He balances out a little bit. Take that positivity down and notch it too.

• 1:15:32Cameron Hanes?

  We want to see how big of an asshole is.

• 1:15:34Speaker 03

  We want to see.

• 1:15:36Cameron Hanes?

  Just in person, but uh, yeah, other than that, I don't know how it could get better.

• 1:15:40Speaker 03

  We need, we need to do one of these about elk hunting too.

• 1:15:43Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 1:15:43Speaker 03

  Man, we need to do one of these talks about elk hunting. Cause I know, I know there's at least three of us sitting on this couch that love it.

• 1:15:50Speaker 02

  And that's the, that's my own, that's my last thing, telling my Cameron, I, the one thing I'm going to do, and I gotta get Cameron to the south. And Jake, your guy, I wouldn't argue this, I wanted him to come to the south. Maybe him and Joe go turkey hunt with us in the swamp.

• 1:16:06Speaker 02

  I think he would like it. So like a twenty pound.

• 1:16:11Speaker 03

  Do you hear that low key air sound coming out of the balloon over there?

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's what I told Jim Shockey one time. Shockey was talking about, he always made fun of me because I like turkey hunts so much. I said, that's because, Shockey, you would starve to death if you had to kill a turkey in Alabama. You can't, it's easy to go kill a aardvark in Cambodia. Or a Chinese war goat, one horned safari club national grand champion. But you could not yelp into turkey in Georgia, Alabama. You redneck.

• 1:16:42Speaker 02

  Queen's English. My best comeback was I said, because in America, we don't have a queen. It's not the Queen's English, it's our English.

• 1:16:52Speaker 03

  Well, good luck to San Diego. I will go get on a plane and hope to see you guys back.

• 1:16:58Speaker 02

  We'll just stay right here, Jerry. We'll take, we'll take care of the place.

• 1:17:01Speaker 03

  Please take care. Please take care.

• 1:17:03Cameron Hanes?

  Thank you, guys. Love you, guys. Love the experience. Love taking this time to sit down and catch up and, uh, share with everybody here on the podcast, so.

• 1:17:12Speaker 03

  Thanks for the invitation to do this.

• 1:17:14Speaker 02

  Thanks for breaking down the camera.

• 1:17:15Cameron Hanes?

  All right, we'll kill big bucks.

• 1:17:16Speaker 02

  Let's go kill some big bucks. Do it, baby.