Negotiate With Anyone & Master The Secret of Persuasive Communication w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher EP 1473

The Summit of Greatness is back! Buy your tickets today – summitofgreatness.com – Jefferson Fisher is a board-certified Texas trial lawyer and founder of Fisher Firm. With his extensive experience as a trial lawyer, Jefferson understands the art of persuading and communicating effectively in high-conflict situations, and is one of the most sought after names in functional thinking for modern day communication. Known for his practical videos and authentic presence, Jefferson has amassed over 5 million social media followers in one year—all from the driver's seat of his car. Jefferson is on a mission to be a messenger of positivity in the world and help people learn to talk to each other again—one conversation at a time. In this episode you will learn,How to have more control in an argumentHow to make your words more powerfulHow to be more likableThree passive phrases to avoidHow to handle people who waste your timeFor more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1473For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960Want more episodes like this one? Dean Graziosi on overcoming trauma and unleashing your greatest potential - https://link.chtbl.com/1462-podKaramo Brown on living an authentic life - https://link.chtbl.com/1457-podLewis Howes’ 11 habits for success - https://link.chtbl.com/1449-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Lewis Howes?

  Calling all conscious achievers who are seeking more community and connection. I've got an invitation for you. Join me at this year's Summit of Greatness this September 7th through 9th in my hometown of Columbus, Ohio to unleash your true greatness. This is the one time a year that I gather the greatness community together in person for a powerful transformative weekend. People come from all over the world and you can expect to hear from inspiring speakers like Inky Johnson, Josprey Singh, Vanessa Van Edwards, Jen Sanchero, and many more. You'll also be able to dance your heart out to live music, get your body moving with group workouts, and connect with others at our evening socials.

• 0:44Lewis Howes?

  So if you're ready to learn, heal, and grow alongside other incredible individuals in the greatness community, then you can learn more at lewishouse.com/summit2023. Make sure to grab your ticket, invite your friends, and I'll see you there.

• 1:01Jefferson Fisher?

  Understand that arguments aren't always meant to be won. So there's a trap of thinking that there can only be one on top of the mountain. And if that is true, then it's a very lonely place to be. Arguments, in my view, are an opportunity to create understanding.

• 1:22Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 1:45Lewis Howes?

  You are a board certified Texas trial lawyer that has gone viral on social media with your daily messages of inspiration, building confidence, how to deal with touchy situations in conversations, arguments, how to deal with unpleasant human beings, and how to stay calm and peaceful and create amazing outcomes in conversations.

• 2:15Jefferson Fisher?

  That's right.

• 2:15Lewis Howes?

  And I'm curious, with all of your experience as a trial lawyer...

• 2:20Lewis Howes?

  Where was the time that you were the most in the stickiest situation in a trial? Where you thought, there's no way I'm going to get out of this, or we're not going to win this case because I'm just, I don't have the skill set, or it's not going our way?

• 2:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 2:35Lewis Howes?

  And what did that teach you about how to be more prepared for future cases?

• 2:40Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, so one of my first trials that I had, it was the first one by myself. Often in the legal world, you have like an associate, you have a partner, you have somebody who's with you. And I was the first one by myself. And this was a larger case. And when you get there, there's this perception, especially when you're young. And you're, the ink on your signature card isn't, on your bar card isn't dry yet. They can smell the green on it.

• 3:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you have no clue what you're doing.

• 3:09Jefferson Fisher?

  No, and you, you can feel that pressure because most of the time, even when you're, I am 26, 28. I'm younger than my client. And so there's like, but that just happens.

• 3:22Lewis Howes?

  He just has some confidence in you here.

• 3:23Jefferson Fisher?

  It's just so there's that, that level of trust, they, I mean, I know I'm going to be doing it. And it was a full panel. You had different juries depending on what court it's in. There's like county courts that are six, different constitutional courts, and a court of 12. That's typical panel you see on TV.

• 3:40Lewis Howes?

  So this was panel of 12?

• 3:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, panel of 12. And it was a larger case. The other side had two attorneys on it from a bigger firm. And they were the ones that were like suit and tie, looked clean. They were, you could, it was, it ended up working out for me that way. But I got in the sticky situation. When I was talking with a witness and I was crossing this witness and I started to get like really defensive. I started to let what they were saying get after me. You have the difficult witnesses who-

• 4:14Lewis Howes?

  This wasn't your witness.

• 4:15Jefferson Fisher?

  It was not my witness, this was an expert on the other side. So these are people who are paid obscene amounts of money from the other side to testify on an expert opinion. But this guy was, he's a veteran. I mean, he knew, oh, he, he, he just, he chewed me up like the finest piece of state, man. I mean, he was, he, he got me good. But what I took away from that, that was just day one, was, that was just day one. I ended up winning the trial.

• 4:43Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 4:43Jefferson Fisher?

  But it was-

• 4:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Because I didn't allow myself, so we did a second day. It's the second time for him to go on the stand.

• 4:53Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow.

• 4:53Jefferson Fisher?

  And the next day I did something different. I aligned my thoughts of how I wanted to approach the situation before I even got in it. I didn't do that the first day.

• 5:06Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean?

• 5:06Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, so typically, what we're doing every day, we're just going by the seat of our pants. You're just in it. It's easy to get overwhelmed. It's easy to get in that moment. And all of a sudden, you're just kind of surviving in the conversation. So you're looking for different ways to maybe hurt somebody, to have a zinger.

• 5:23Lewis Howes?

  To defend yourself.

• 5:24Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it, yeah, very much so. And I would get in my car going, I can't do that again. I can't do that again. And I started coming up with different phrases that I would tell myself to help align me in the moment.

• 5:39Lewis Howes?

  When he does this again, when I get defensive again.

• 5:42Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it.

• 5:43Lewis Howes?

  When I get triggered and he says something that I know isn't cool, but he's trying to get under my skin. How am I going to respond?

• 5:49Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it, you got it. And so there was this need for me, being on my own, there was no, I didn't have any other people from the firm with me, of trying to prove myself. And sometimes when we had that pressure on, there's that need to overpromise, overdo. And you end up, you know, what you say, trying to look cute, you know, and you overextend yourself.

• 6:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:14Jefferson Fisher?

  And this time I wasn't going to do that. So I started to write things on the top of my yellow notepad to kind of just like make sure I sunk these things into my brain. I'd say, one, I was just like, just be Jefferson. Don't worry about trying to be some, you know, macho court attorney on TV that they, just, just be you. Just be you. And, and who Jefferson is, is a guy that I hear somebody get defensive, I go, okay. You know, just like, oh, all right. And I just, I just bought off a duck's back. And so it was that first step that now all of a sudden, his snarkiness, when I got defensive,

• 6:59Jefferson Fisher?

  justified him getting more snarky.

• 7:00Lewis Howes?

  Oh, right.

• 7:01Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, he just ratchet.

• 7:02Lewis Howes?

  Like, I got you.

• 7:03Jefferson Fisher?

  Every time.

• 7:03Lewis Howes?

  I mean, to get any deeper.

• 7:05Jefferson Fisher?

  But me just going, oh, okay. Like allowing him to have his moment.

• 7:13Jefferson Fisher?

  It made him look worse.

• 7:15Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 7:15Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, because now he looked like the jerk. Now he started to lose credibility. And now the scales begin to tip. And when the other side begins to object more, it looks like they're trying to hide something more. And so I took the strategy of here I am fighting for my client, just me.

• 7:34Jefferson Fisher?

  And here he is. They're the ones in the suits. They're the ones with money. They're the ones that are objecting. What does that say?

• 7:41Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's smart.

• 7:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, so and and so what they would do is they would have, they'd bring in their paralegals, like their team, and bring all these boxes, and they wouldn't do it themselves.

• 7:51Lewis Howes?

  Papers and everything else.

• 7:52Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, they had these banker boxes, redwells, and they wouldn't do it themselves. The attorneys wouldn't. They would have their staff do it. I wasn't going to do that. So I made sure the jury, I would keep my box in the hallway until the jury got there. And so I would have two boxes and let the jury see me carry my two heavy boxes in and put them down myself.

• 8:12Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 8:12Jefferson Fisher?

  And so I just wanted them to always think that which ones looks more credible? Which one looks more authentic to, you know, their practice?

• 8:20Lewis Howes?

  Who cares about the case?

• 8:22Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. Exactly. And all of a sudden, because these jurors are just looking at us. I mean, they don't have anything else better to do in the day. I mean, they're given their civic duty. It's amazing, but when they sit in that chair, it's it's you're the show for them.

• 8:37Lewis Howes?

  And you've got to present a compelling case and you've got to

• 8:41Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 8:42Lewis Howes?

  persuade, influence, and enroll people in a story of your truth.

• 8:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Right, you, I, it is my job to tell my client's truth, tell my client's story. And it's just an odd profession because I, Louis, I got hired to handle other people's problems

• 9:03Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:03Jefferson Fisher?

  with people that I don't have a problem with. I don't have any problem with them, but I guess I do now. And then to make it worse, the other side hires an attorney whose sole job is to make me look bad. The solely just to make me lose. And you have a judge that just decides the rest.

• 9:21Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:22Jefferson Fisher?

  And there's, I mean, every call that you have with opposing counsel, every time you're talking to a judge, you're having a cross-examine a witness. It is, you can see why the profession is very well suited for people that are good at dealing with.

• 9:39Jefferson Fisher?

  Communication.

• 9:39Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 9:40Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, because if you can't, it's not the one for you.

• 9:43Lewis Howes?

  What I'm hearing you say is the is now when you go into a case, you have an intention.

• 9:47Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 9:48Lewis Howes?

  When the worst case scenario happens, how am I going to respond? I'm going to just be Jefferson or I'm going to have these other.

• 9:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 9:56Lewis Howes?

  Montres, whatever you want to call them, intentions to remind myself to lean into that. Is that what I'm hearing you say?

• 10:01Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it, and I translate that with my clients. So I have, just like I do it, I have to train them in going in the hot seat.

• 10:08Lewis Howes?

  Not get defensive, not get reactive, they're going to do this, they're going to get under your skin, they're going to call you a liar.

• 10:14Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it, and because your case might depend solely on how you behave.

• 10:19Lewis Howes?

  Isn't that interesting? It doesn't matter if you were actually right or wrong. It's how you behave and your energy being presented to a jury.

• 10:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Absolutely.

• 10:29Lewis Howes?

  And that is happening in real life, in everyday conversations, in your career.

• 10:33Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it.

• 10:34Lewis Howes?

  Your relationships, other opportunities of life is how you present yourself.

• 10:40Jefferson Fisher?

  And a thousand percent.

• 10:41Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't matter if you actually have the skills, the credibility.

• 10:45Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 10:45Lewis Howes?

  The credentials.

• 10:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 10:47Lewis Howes?

  To get the great opportunities, it's how you present the skills, credentials and credibility's to the person or people in front of you.

• 10:54Jefferson Fisher?

  Right, and my client could have all the facts in their favor, but if they're a jerk, your case is over.

• 11:00Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 11:00Jefferson Fisher?

  It's not going to happen.

• 11:01Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't matter if you broke the law or you didn't break the law.

• 11:04Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 11:05Lewis Howes?

  It's how you present your situation.

• 11:07Jefferson Fisher?

  Well, there's some aspect of it that an appellate court might come back and say, oh, yeah, the laws. But when it comes to jury trials, when it comes to jury trials, especially civil, criminal law is different. But on the civil side of things, they can dump your case if they just don't like it.

• 11:23Lewis Howes?

  They just don't like you. We don't want this person to win.

• 11:24Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, because if somebody who, here's, here's an example. So I had a case I was on the defense of. And lady had been hurt in an accident. And I knew very much that she was, she acted like she was A okay. And that's okay, because you can be hurt in an accident and turn out to be fine later. There's nothing wrong with that. But what she had done was overextended herself by saying that the accident kept her from holding her grandkids. Oh, cool. Accident kept her from being able to go hike and enjoy all these things. Yeah, she milked it. She milked it bad. And so when that kind of happens, it's, what I do is just lean back like, okay, now, now she's saying something.

• 12:05Jefferson Fisher?

  Now she's giving me something aside from her facts that I can, I can use. And what she didn't even think about was she had posted all these pictures publicly, of holding grandbabies. They had gone on like three vacations to Hawaii. Her on Davila Mountain. Exactly. It's exactly what it was. Next to like some like Mount Summit, okay. And the next day I come in and it's my turn across examining. And I said, Ms. So and so, I heard you say something the other day that well, almost broke my heart. You said that life's just not worth living. Did I read that right? And she says, yes, that's correct. Waterworks start coming up again. All right, she cried both times.

• 12:49Jefferson Fisher?

  Which there's nothing wrong with crying. That's not what I'm saying, but she, she manufactured those very quickly. I said, there's some things I want us to look and. Take the photos out. You did not have the photos. Case gone, gone in a matter of seconds. And it was my client who caused the accident. But her case was, it showed that, yeah, but it was, it was not a major accident. But the issue was, once you lose your credibility, you cannot, in that sense, you cannot get it back. Wow. And so if she had just stayed true to who she was and been honest of, no, we've been able to go on vacations and do some things, but this accident really caused me some pain back then. I'm just looking for a way to try and do X, Y, and Z. But she, she got out of that, she got out of that. Wow, that's funny, man. That's crazy.

• 13:34Jefferson Fisher?

  It's fun, it's fun stuff.

• 13:37Jefferson Fisher?

  Now, when you're thinking about.

• 13:41Lewis Howes?

  Questioning or examining someone,

• 13:45Lewis Howes?

  what is the psychology that you think about before you ask the first question? To set someone up, whether they're on your team or someone you're going against, I guess, in court, to set them up for the outcome you want to create? What's the psychology you think about in order to get the results in any conversation?

• 14:07Jefferson Fisher?

  So I'm going to answer that in two spots. There's one, if it's somebody I am against, all right, versus somebody who's with me.

• 14:18Jefferson Fisher?

  The one against is more fun. So I know that when I sit down and I'm going to depose a witness, meaning I'm asking them questions prior to trial.

• 14:27Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 14:28Jefferson Fisher?

  They're not going to like me. They know that. They think I'm the bad guy because they don't know. They just know what they hear on TV. And I know right away that the person that I see is not the person that I'm talking to.

• 14:43Jefferson Fisher?

  What we're about to exchange in that moment is they're going to reveal to me conflict that is just going to be a window into the struggle that they're feeling in that moment. That there are things that they carried into that room that they were carrying days, months, hours before they even saw me. And that is probably one of the number one keys of when you deal with these very difficult conversations is the issue they put up is rarely the real issue. It's not that. It's, I mean, you can say something at even at home. You know, you get in an argument with a spouse or a girlfriend and you're going, where's this coming from? Well, it turns out, you know, at eight o'clock that morning, somebody had cut them off in traffic

• 15:28Jefferson Fisher?

  and they had a bad email and they, and there it goes.

• 15:31Lewis Howes?

  They're just frustrated.

• 15:32Jefferson Fisher?

  Their mom said something and you just happen to be the outlet. So that's the ability to recognize that and use that as a place to connect rather than a place to continue to, to, you know, flare up.

• 15:45Lewis Howes?

  How do you use that? Whether it's someone personal in your life or someone that you're working with in court?

• 15:51Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 15:52Lewis Howes?

  When you know it's not who they are, it's the baggage they're carrying to that conversation or the portrayal of the baggage or whatever. How do you?

• 16:02Lewis Howes?

  Use it to your advantage as opposed to get defensive and guarded.

• 16:07Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 16:08Lewis Howes?

  Whether it's your wife.

• 16:09Jefferson Fisher?

  Right, right.

• 16:09Lewis Howes?

  A friend or someone in trial.

• 16:12Jefferson Fisher?

  Sometimes you have to take them outside, like of their head. So if you and I are talking in here and say we get in an argument, we're just here in this room. We take out a step outside and then you get some perspective.

• 16:27Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:27Jefferson Fisher?

  Then you have some clarity. What do we say when we get overwhelmed? I need some space. I need to, I need to go take a walk. It's the same way when we're having a conversation. You know, I can have, if I sense something that in that moment, I can do one of two things. I can either react. Meaning I can get defensive or I can respond. Responding is a way that says, I'm trying to understand you. Reaction says.

• 16:57Jefferson Fisher?

  I have no say in it. I, you have the cause, this is the effect and that has no accountability in that. Responding says, I'm taking full accountability for my feelings that only I can touch.

• 17:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:12Jefferson Fisher?

  That's, that's the big difference.

• 17:13Lewis Howes?

  Wow. How do you not get triggered emotionally though, in life? Like personally, if someone's coming at you or attacking you or making you wrong, how do you keep your cool and not get defensive and take things personally? Or do you?

• 17:28Jefferson Fisher?

  It's very natural to take things personally, but what I say before I want to take things personally is I'll say, I'll say, put it down, Jefferson. I'll say, put it down. Most of the time when we're taking something personally, we're picking something up that nobody asks us to carry. And we're just choosing to hold on to it, choosing to say, this was meant for me. And that's not always the case. And too many times we get.

• 17:54Jefferson Fisher?

  Somebody says, why are you taking this so personally? And they turn around, we're holding it all like, well, why are you holding that? I didn't ask you to hold any of that. So you, you get in a position to where.

• 18:07Jefferson Fisher?

  The how personally you take something is a direct reflection of how much grace you give other people. And if I start to take things too personally, oh, well, somebody's just going slow in front of me on purpose. They're showing up late because they want to show a sign to me. It's just all these different ways of treating things negatively. For the most part, you take it personally. And then that's you just drop it, drop that thought because you're not giving them enough grace.

• 18:34Lewis Howes?

  Where did you learn to let things go and put things down? Did you have this calm about you as a kid? Or did something over time help you realize, okay, I don't need to hold on to this baggage or stress?

• 18:51Jefferson Fisher?

  It's just been a as if it's a just blacksmith hitting on a piece of hot metal. Man, I just, my whole life has been that from

• 19:01Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 19:02Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, from my upbringing, a lot of attorneys in the family. I'm the oldest for, I love being the big brother. That meant I did a lot of mediating with siblings, a lot of I mean, I was the kid in the corner who just got to hear all the courtroom stories. And so they would teach you how to project and how to present and how to persuade and how to at pace. I mean, it was, it was awesome. And I just kind of translated with what, what I like. Some people are really good at math or economics or accounting. Not me. This, this is my thing.

• 19:36Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 19:37Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 19:38Lewis Howes?

  I think a lot of people in today's world want to be great at winning arguments.

• 19:47Lewis Howes?

  What would you say if you wanted to win an argument? Would be the three keys to set yourself up for success?

• 19:56Jefferson Fisher?

  Number one would be, understand that arguments aren't always meant to be won. So there's a trap of thinking that there can only be one on top of the mountain. And if that is true, then it's a very lonely place to be. And arguments, in my view, are an opportunity to create understanding. It's okay to have conflict. You and I can argue about something, but when it gets negative, that's when it's bad. You and I could argue who's the best baseball team. And, you know, that's a disagreement. That ratchets up a little bit more, becomes an argument. Maybe we get a little bit more passionate.

• 20:33Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 20:34Jefferson Fisher?

  But number one is that don't get into the trap of thinking that you have to win it. Because when you do, it's only going to breed contempt. Because it comes at a cost. And maybe you made fun of them. Maybe you said something that was, you know, too final, too close to the best. So number two is know what the end goal is. Oftentimes, we get into this argument. And what happens, we're like 10 minutes into it. And we go, how do we start this? How did we even get here? What were we arguing about in the first place? And that meant that it wasn't real. Most of the time when that happens, it means that the true issue you're arguing about was just a red area. It's just a surface.

• 21:16Jefferson Fisher?

  So it's, you have to know where you're going to go in the argument. So what the final outcome is. And number two, how are you going to heal it? Because if it's an issue of especially emotion. If you don't heal it in a way that is going to continue to create that that positive understanding and interaction. You will, you will lose every time.

• 21:43Lewis Howes?

  How to heal the argument or how to heal the disagreement or whatever is happening between you and the other person?

• 21:48Jefferson Fisher?

  Right, which involves taking accountability for what your behavior has done.

• 21:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:54Jefferson Fisher?

  One of the worst ways to do that is say, well, I would have done it had you not done, right? If I would have, I wouldn't have said this had you not said that. No, you don't need to. Once you start tallying who did what, you're already in a losing situation. The, the correct response is, I'm sorry that I said this. I could have done better. And that, that acknowledgement of, I shouldn't have said that. I didn't mean that. I'm gonna do better. Just that little promise says, I'm wanting to heal this rather than uh go, go kick rocks. Yeah, yeah.

• 22:37Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious, you know, it sounds like something that that type of language sounds like something that would work really well in intimate relationship, a partner, uh, you know, in a marriage.

• 22:50Lewis Howes?

  If people spoke like that, hey, I didn't mean it like that. I'm really sorry. I'm sorry if that hurt you.

• 22:56Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 22:56Lewis Howes?

  That's not what I really meant.

• 22:57Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 22:57Lewis Howes?

  I'm sure that would help heal and mend arguments and disagreements in a beautiful, loving way. I'm curious from your experience, been married 11 years now, is that correct?

• 23:08Jefferson Fisher?

  Eleven, yeah.

• 23:09Lewis Howes?

  You've been doing trial law for how long?

• 23:11Jefferson Fisher?

  Eight.

• 23:12Lewis Howes?

  Eight years. Okay, so.

• 23:14Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, yeah, about 10, 10 years ago.

• 23:16Lewis Howes?

  Roughly about the same time.

• 23:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 23:18Lewis Howes?

  What is the number one skill you bring to trial law? That you aren't as good in marriage and relationships? And what is the number one thing you do well in your marriage? That you wish you did better in trial law?

• 23:36Jefferson Fisher?

  And the first scenario of what do I do well at court that I don't do well at home?

• 23:40Lewis Howes?

  Or not as well.

• 23:41Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, not as well. Manage my emotions.

• 23:44Lewis Howes?

  You manage emotions really well at court?

• 23:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes, you have to. I can't, I can't be, I can't be acting a fool.

• 23:50Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:51Jefferson Fisher?

  You know, you know what I'm saying? Like there's too, there's too much, there's too much at stake and, and you're, you're as a profession, it's, that's not a place to be doing that versus at home. Yeah, I get mad about, I mean, all kinds of things.

• 24:05Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 24:05Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, I mean, we, we, I'm human. I mean, but of course, I'm not somebody who lashes out. I'm not, I'm not a big emotionally reactive uh, person. I'm, I'm pretty much like this.

• 24:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:17Jefferson Fisher?

  But that doesn't mean that the fifth time I, you know, my son's asked me to uh, for a popsicle that it's, no, man, it's after bedtime. We've already eaten one today. It's, it's time to go to bed.

• 24:30Lewis Howes?

  Said no.

• 24:31Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, we've, I've already said no. And like you just, it's easy to try and get that. So dealing with those emotions, I, I also think a lot of that is. Home is a safe place to express and feel your emotions.

• 24:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 24:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Versus in the workplace, not so much.

• 24:47Lewis Howes?

  You may not succeed as well.

• 24:48Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it.

• 24:49Lewis Howes?

  In your career or accelerate your career.

• 24:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Not mine. Yeah. Yeah. If, if you are, because if you're always emotionally reactive in my profession, you're just seen as a hothead and somebody that nobody can work with.

• 24:58Lewis Howes?

  Not credible.

• 24:59Jefferson Fisher?

  No, not, not credible. On the flip side of it, what do I do well at home that I don't do nearly as well? In the, in the workplace? Man, that's, that's hard. I feel like what we do really well at home is sometimes have like very direct, fast arguments. And my wife's also an attorney.

• 25:20Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 25:20Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 25:21Lewis Howes?

  You've both got your case.

• 25:22Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but our arguments are extremely efficient. Like they, I, I can't, I can count on one hand the amount of times they've actually been like long.

• 25:32Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 25:32Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. And it's typically pretty, pretty quick.

• 25:36Lewis Howes?

  How do you, how do you create quick arguments? How do you end arguments quickly?

• 25:40Jefferson Fisher?

  Quick apologies.

• 25:42Lewis Howes?

  Really? And you both apologize fast?

• 25:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes, but, but we will kind of package it. It's not like we have a formula or like, let's go to the book. No, this is not, this is what we've like developed over time is when I heard you say this, it made me think this. I didn't mean that. Okay. Well, I will, next time I'll try to ask you this before I go there.

• 26:05Lewis Howes?

  I won't make an assumption.

• 26:06Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it.

• 26:06Lewis Howes?

  I won't get upset right away without asking you further.

• 26:09Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 26:10Lewis Howes?

  Interrogations.

• 26:11Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. Yeah. You got it. Oh, yeah. I can't tell you how many times I hear like, stop cross-examining. Like she, she can pick it up immediately and I don't mean to do it.

• 26:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:19Jefferson Fisher?

  It's just happening, but.

• 26:20Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 26:21Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. She, she quickly shuts that down.

• 26:23Lewis Howes?

  What is a, a top strategy or technique that you've learned ethically to get what you want from people? To persuade, influence and enroll others, strangers or people you know very well in getting something you want?

• 26:42Jefferson Fisher?

  You have to give them a reason to want to give it to you. And it needs to come from a place of making them happy to do so. And when it becomes a place of rather a negotiation, which makes them feel like they've lost something. You couch it and frame it in a way that feels like they've gained something. And so if you and I are across the table in a negotiation, whatever you give, you've lost. But if I can say, you know what, Louis? Man, you've just been doing so well. You hit three million on YouTube now. I mean, your stuff's just going off the charts. You know what you could be really good at? And I'd love to see is X, Y, and Z.

• 27:27Jefferson Fisher?

  And all of a sudden, it's like a shift of you're sitting on the same side of the table as me. And now I'm trying to help you inspire other thoughts that are also aligned with what I want. And that's a much. Now, you're gonna say, oh, that's sounds sneaky. No, it's, it's not. It's actually getting what you, you need sometimes. In a way that is also benefiting the other person.

• 27:51Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 27:52Jefferson Fisher?

  I'd much rather that way than say, I don't like you. You don't like me. We're just gonna have a bloodbath and have at it.

• 27:59Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 27:59Jefferson Fisher?

  May the, may the best guy win.

• 28:00Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 28:01Jefferson Fisher?

  You know? So just don't ask for a pay arm wrestle right now. You're gonna win that one.

• 28:07Lewis Howes?

  When you go into a negotiation and you know, you're about to negotiate something.

• 28:13Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 28:14Lewis Howes?

  What is the best intention you should have going into it? So that you can create the best outcome for you? And the other person still feels like they didn't lose.

• 28:25Jefferson Fisher?

  The, so Chris Foss's book is fantastic. Never Split the Difference. And one of his things about tactical empathy is making the other person feel like you're, you want the best for them, that you're, that you're in their camp. And you're not going to get emotionally reactive in the, in the answer. You're, you, you're already addressing the issues that you're expecting them to, to think of. So like he'll say, you're probably thinking that X, Y, and Z. It sounds to me like he's already kind of given these hints of what he's already picking up on. And when you say what already they are thinking in their mind, you pull it out on the table really quickly. And then, and then, and then that's it.

• 29:08Jefferson Fisher?

  What I will do a lot of the times is somebody gives some kind of ejection, not like in the legal sense in a courtroom, but I'll say, aside from that, aside from what you just said, anything else that I should know about? They say, no. Great. And then I'll typically give it like a two path thing. So I will, I will ask more questions. See, typically when I hear that some, it means that they really don't want to talk to me and that's, that's okay. If you're not ready to right now, if there's some, they actually do want to talk about, they're not sure what they want to say. Is it really one or two for you? And then you'd be able to kind of bail for that, but it's inviting them into a way that it's going to get you what you want at the end.

• 29:45Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. That's interesting.

• 29:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 29:47Lewis Howes?

  And how do you build confidence in conversations with people that are difficult, that are smarter than you potentially, that are older than you? How do you create confidence in challenging conversations to make sure that you're on the same play field with the other person? And you get the results you want in the conversation, whether it's just a conversation or a negotiation?

• 30:15Jefferson Fisher?

  One would be to do not let defensiveness be your first step. As soon as you take that step, you've lost. The better way to do it is let your breath be the first word that you say. So if you think of your breath as a word, it kind of changes your mind of, okay, now I can address this. Because what we'll do is we'll hold our breath like that. And then, I mean, you know, this thing kicks in our nerves. Then, then, then comes in the adrenaline, then comes in the defensiveness. You realize, I haven't even breathed yet, you know? And, and when it comes to, to, to confidence, of course, we can say, this is the way you project. It's the way you smile.

• 31:00Jefferson Fisher?

  It's the way you pace your conversation, keeping your voice low, keeping your words slow. It's all these kinds of things. It's the perception that I don't have to say anything more than what I need to say, because oftentimes more words says less.

• 31:18Jefferson Fisher?

  You need to eliminate that.

• 31:18Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Well, that's where it says more.

• 31:20Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, every time.

• 31:23Lewis Howes?

  What's it been like over the last year? You were a trial lawyer for seven, eight years. You know, small town, Texas. And, uh, you know, living your life, kids, married. And then all of a sudden you say, you know what? I think I'm going to share some of these things on social media, you know, essentially a year, year and a half ago. And, um, you know, the last year and a half, it's gone from a couple of videos here and there to over five million followers.

• 31:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 31:51Lewis Howes?

  And people really coming to you for wisdom and advice. And, you know, now your business growing, your law firm growing and opportunities coming to you.

• 32:00Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 32:00Lewis Howes?

  What has that experience done for you and your confidence and also your personal life? And do you feel more stressed or overwhelmed or a sense of pressure now that you have this larger following? And people looking to you for advice?

• 32:16Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes, it has helped my law firm in a big way because I don't tell people what I do, but they're interested in it. And so they go and find me. Now, sometimes I'll just get calls from people who just want to talk.

• 32:27Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 32:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Are people who act like they're a client, just so, just so they can talk. But by and large, it's been very helpful for, for my business. And it's always helpful for my trials. I have, I have several trial settings this, this fall. There's not a judge who hasn't seen the videos. There's not an opposing counsel that hasn't seen the videos. And so that's, it's good and bad because it makes me very hyper aware of my interactions with them. Because as soon as I say one thing that's off, then, oh, Joe isn't who he, who he is. Which is just not true, but I would say absolutely it's built a lot more pressure.

• 33:05Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 33:05Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, that's, I think it was one of the sources of the, when I had a, my first panic attack had begun this year.

• 33:14Jefferson Fisher?

  Because even though you have more followers, it's also very isolating in a way because. I know law very well. And when I had that, I had a lot of people at my table, so to speak. I had mentors, I had friends, I had other people who, I mean, other lawyers, I had my, my family. I had studied it. I knew I'd read all the things. And it started out awesome. The social media thing was, I, I, I just going in my car for a little bit and make, making a video. What was off the top of my head? And now it's gotten much more serious. And with that, there's a pressure of not wanting to give bad advice. I'm certainly never gonna act like I know everything. I can, of course, I can give bad advice.

• 33:58Jefferson Fisher?

  I mean, it's, it's inevitable. So you have that kind of feeling and it's a lot of eyes on you. So with anybody, it's kind of that imposter syndrome. Like, do I really know what I'm saying? You know, it is, do I really, do I really know it? Or I'm just fooling everybody?

• 34:12Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 34:13Jefferson Fisher?

  And so you kind of have to, to battle that in your head and go, no, nope, I've done this. I've done this. Like, I say done, like, I've lived this, I've lived that, although this has been my life.

• 34:23Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 34:23Jefferson Fisher?

  And as long as I share my life and I'm authentic to who I am, I'm never gonna be an imposter.

• 34:29Lewis Howes?

  Right. Cause you started opening up recently and did some different videos about the, you know, kind of mental health, panic attacks.

• 34:36Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 34:36Lewis Howes?

  That you've experienced. When did you have the first panic attack? How did that make you feel? And how have you been able to manage that feeling of overwhelm? Or, you know, panic?

• 34:49Jefferson Fisher?

  It was in February where all of a sudden I had a whole bunch of videos that were taken off. Videos that I had posted like two weeks prior.

• 34:56Lewis Howes?

  Going viral.

• 34:57Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it. Yeah, I had like four of them all in a row. And it was me going, I don't know what's happening. Somebody at Instagram messed up. Like, you know, like the, this, this can't be. And as it continued to grow, then I started seeing more people with, I didn't have a blue check. All these more people with a blue check following me. And that was before you can buy it. And then I'm seeing other celebrities and I'm going, hold up here.

• 35:32Jefferson Fisher?

  What, what's happening? And then I knew I needed to get like, build a website. Because I didn't have a website. So I'm staying up super late, like working on some.

• 35:43Lewis Howes?

  Putting something together.

• 35:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, just anything, any, anything. There's no team. It's just, it's just this guy. And it was a little after midnight, wife, kids were asleep. And Louis, it felt like somebody had gotten that little piece of paper and just wafted it in front of my face, like a very cool, just rush. And I said out loud in the kitchen, I said, what was that? Because I was like, was this a ghost just, you know, jump over me? And just like that, it was, I guess, all of a sudden I could hear it in my ears, tightness in my chest. And my whole system just started to like freak. I was convinced, I was convinced that was a heart attack and I was dying.

• 36:23Lewis Howes?

  Holy cow.

• 36:24Jefferson Fisher?

  Because I knew it could not have been anxiety.

• 36:28Lewis Howes?

  Really? Why?

• 36:29Jefferson Fisher?

  You, you what I mean? Like, I was like, I, I eat stress.

• 36:32Lewis Howes?

  I'm cool. Yeah, I'm chill. I'm cool.

• 36:34Jefferson Fisher?

  You know how many trials I've had? You know how many stressful situations and money on the line and all this stuff? I, I, I eat stress. We can do this. I, I was, it was such an ignorant mindset, but at the moment I was like.

• 36:49Lewis Howes?

  You thought you were having a heart attack?

• 36:50Jefferson Fisher?

  I thought I was having a heart attack because there could be no other explanation in my mind because I don't have anxiety. I don't have panic attacks. That's for people who don't have their life together. That was the, that was the very wrong mindset.

• 37:04Lewis Howes?

  What happened during that night and how did you get through it?

• 37:07Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, well, I went to the ER because I thought I was dying.

• 37:10Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Did you drive yourself? Did your wife drive you? Did you call 911?

• 37:14Jefferson Fisher?

  I called 911. Yeah.

• 37:15Lewis Howes?

  The ambulance came to pick you up and the whole thing, the lights, sirens. They bring out the.

• 37:21Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, yeah. I was, I was shaking so badly, like uncontrollable shaking. I didn't, I didn't know. I didn't know what was going on. All I knew was like, all I could tell my wife is something is not right. Like, that's all I could get out of my mouth. Something is not right. It's true. Something was not right. My body's like, no.

• 37:37Lewis Howes?

  Your body was convulsing.

• 37:38Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, my body was like, yeah, you're not right.

• 37:40Lewis Howes?

  It was like shutting down, the system powered down.

• 37:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, all of that.

• 37:44Lewis Howes?

  Holy cow.

• 37:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, thirty four is the first time I ever had that kind of experience. It was very real. I mean, as physical and tangible as as.

• 37:52Lewis Howes?

  Heart pounding.

• 37:53Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so.

• 37:55Lewis Howes?

  Sweating, dizziness, all of it.

• 37:57Jefferson Fisher?

  I couldn't tell if I was gonna throw up. I like, I was, I was like, Lord, anytime, please, because I hated the, the whole thing. It just felt like it was days while you're just shaking. So I get down to the hospital, they run my blood work. By that time I'm having like, what you would call, I guess, aftershocks, like I'd, I'd be good and then I'd have another just like onset.

• 38:19Lewis Howes?

  Like kind of intense heart palpitations.

• 38:20Jefferson Fisher?

  And then it'd go flat and then I'd just like, everything in my body like clinch up. It just, and that happened for, I don't know, two hours. And then they just said, well, you just, no heart attack, your heart's good.

• 38:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, your blood work's fine, everything was fine.

• 38:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Healthy, healthy as can be, but you just, you had a, had a panic attack. And I was like, excuse me, what? And like, you had a panic attack, I was like.

• 38:41Lewis Howes?

  No, I'm sure my heart had a.

• 38:43Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, I was like, I was like, are you sure you just, it's okay, I'll get a heart monitor, it's okay. Uh, but yeah, so that's.

• 38:49Lewis Howes?

  Panic attack. And when they said that, how did they make you feel?

• 38:52Jefferson Fisher?

  It made me feel very normal and, and messed up. It made me feel like I was, something was wrong with me. Like, it made me feel like, uh, oh, no, I am, now I'm one of them. Like now I'm, now I'm somebody who can't control my thoughts. Now I'm somebody who like, now I am going, then like the panic of the thoughts. So some of those thoughts in my mind.

• 39:15Lewis Howes?

  The panic, the panic attack.

• 39:15Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it, yeah, and, and because in that moment, yeah, I can tell myself, of course, no, you, you're perfectly normal. Yes, you're supposed to have, your body is, this is all natural. I could say that now. In that moment, it was, well, what's, what's, what's happening? And is my brain is falling apart because you would have these rapid thoughts that would come, these crazy thoughts, that I could not stop. Like, I'm.

• 39:39Lewis Howes?

  Like what thoughts?

• 39:41Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, you, uh, for whatever reason, they would revolve around like.

• 39:46Jefferson Fisher?

  For whatever reason, death was a trigger. Like, any thought of dying or the topic of it would just like, send my whole body into a fritz. And that's so bizarre, coming from never in my life has this happened.

• 40:00Lewis Howes?

  Ever.

• 40:00Jefferson Fisher?

  And here I am, the guy who is, at the time, is going, it was the night that my fallen hit a million, is when it happened.

• 40:08Lewis Howes?

  Wow, the night you hit a million.

• 40:09Jefferson Fisher?

  The night, the night in a million. And, but it was the thought of, here's this guy, who gives all this communication advice about, you know, blah, blah. And I'm just rippling, and I'm just melting. I had another panic attack for the next eight days.

• 40:23Lewis Howes?

  Every day?

• 40:23Jefferson Fisher?

  Every day.

• 40:24Lewis Howes?

  Did you call the ER every time or no?

• 40:25Jefferson Fisher?

  No, no, no.

• 40:26Lewis Howes?

  You knew this was happening?

• 40:26Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, the second time, the second time was at the office and I was like, oh no. I said, I was like, oh no. But at that point, I knew I wasn't dying and that's a, that's a very big relief.

• 40:36Lewis Howes?

  How long did the second one last?

• 40:38Jefferson Fisher?

  Uh, just as long.

• 40:39Lewis Howes?

  Couple hours?

• 40:40Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 40:41Lewis Howes?

  So you're sitting in the office for a couple hours, like laying down on the couch?

• 40:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Breathing, I'm, I'm straight, just like pulling out the Headspace app. I'm working on my breathing, I'm like, yeah, and so.

• 40:51Lewis Howes?

  And the next days after that, it was the same?

• 40:53Jefferson Fisher?

  They got a little bit shorter, but it would happen in terrible times.

• 40:57Lewis Howes?

  Wow, man.

• 40:58Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, it was terrible, it was a horrible time. And then, um, I was like, man, I gotta see what this is, I gotta see what this is about. So I spent like, a full day, marked off my calendar of like, I am researching everything I want to know about this topic. Cause never in my life that I had been on our radar.

• 41:15Lewis Howes?

  What'd you find out about? What'd you, what'd you discover?

• 41:18Jefferson Fisher?

  So I discovered several things. One was, part of that response that your body is going through, your body is telling you things that something is not right. You're, because I, I have a great mental game. And I can tell myself just about anything, like, no, I'm not nervous, I'm excited. I, I'm, I am very happy to be here, or.

• 41:37Lewis Howes?

  I'm prepared, I'm there someday, yeah.

• 41:38Jefferson Fisher?

  You got, yeah, I have to have this mindset of calm, cool and collected when I walk in that door. When I walk through those courtroom doors, they need to, I need to look like, uh, I've already won, I just need to show them why. And, and.

• 41:52Jefferson Fisher?

  Here in this mindset was me saying, actually,

• 41:58Jefferson Fisher?

  your body knows better than you do.

• 42:02Lewis Howes?

  You cannot think this.

• 42:03Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it. Yeah.

• 42:04Lewis Howes?

  Cannot think. You gotta feel it.

• 42:05Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 42:06Lewis Howes?

  And move through it.

• 42:06Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. There's that book. I can't remember the author. Body Keeps the Score.

• 42:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:10Jefferson Fisher?

  And.

• 42:10Lewis Howes?

  Incredible.

• 42:11Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. So I, I ordered that book like right away.

• 42:13Lewis Howes?

  What did you learn about your, yourself, your body?

• 42:16Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 42:17Lewis Howes?

  Memories of the past.

• 42:18Jefferson Fisher?

  No, no.

• 42:19Lewis Howes?

  That were causing this.

• 42:20Jefferson Fisher?

  There is a sense of, and this is gonna, it's gonna sound weird, but it was a sense of immediate isolation. Okay. I have the million on my phone. Between me and you, it's just a digit from a number on my phone. That's it. No different than if I just press one on a keypad on my calculator on my phone.

• 42:45Jefferson Fisher?

  But that number meant much more significance. And of course, there are a lot of creators that have way more than that. But for somebody who's just been in this car, who doesn't see any of these people. I'm in a small town. I'm a, I'm growing law firm. I'm just doing all I can. And then all of a sudden, I felt like a lot of eyes were on me and I had nobody to help. Like there was nobody, I couldn't, if I called my best friend, he'd be like, yeah, I'm in.

• 43:12Lewis Howes?

  He doesn't understand.

• 43:12Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. Yeah. He's like, oh, that's, that's a, that's a bummer. You know, I, I just, they couldn't, they couldn't. I could tell, hey, what do you, what are you thinking there?

• 43:20Lewis Howes?

  I'm glad I reached out to you then.

• 43:21Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 43:22Lewis Howes?

  Good topic.

• 43:23Jefferson Fisher?

  It really was. I'm telling you, that's why I, I thank you immensely because that, that was just to have that, that presence.

• 43:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 43:30Jefferson Fisher?

  Is to know that I, if I need to, I can call or somebody who's kind of been through that, that change. And so now.

• 43:39Lewis Howes?

  There's probably only four, maybe five people that I can have, share everything with.

• 43:45Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 43:46Lewis Howes?

  That will actually not judge me, that will. Relate to it in some way that maybe has already had some type of experience like that. That will, you know, have compassion for me where if I said these things to other people or publicly or whatever it might be. People just want to understand or want to get it. And I'm not saying that.

• 44:06Jefferson Fisher?

  Or take it wrong.

• 44:07Lewis Howes?

  Or they might take it wrong. And I'm not saying that I have like some unique experiences greater or better than others. It's just a different, unique experience.

• 44:14Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 44:15Lewis Howes?

  From a different position of life and it's not a better, worse than good, bad. It's just a different perspective.

• 44:23Jefferson Fisher?

  That's right. Yeah.

• 44:23Lewis Howes?

  And it's, um. Yeah, there's, there's only a few people that I can really fully just let loose with.

• 44:32Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, but that's, that's, that's smart. I mean, that's biblical. The, the keep your friends very close and few and that your, your true ones.

• 44:38Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 44:39Jefferson Fisher?

  Love you no, no matter what.

• 44:40Lewis Howes?

  I mean, where I can say all this stuff, the.

• 44:42Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it.

• 44:43Lewis Howes?

  Messy, the nasty, the.

• 44:44Jefferson Fisher?

  The unfiltered.

• 44:45Lewis Howes?

  The unfiltered stuff.

• 44:46Jefferson Fisher?

  The raw, the, oh yeah, all of that.

• 44:48Lewis Howes?

  And, and it's. It would, human beings need that at every stage of life.

• 44:52Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 44:53Lewis Howes?

  You know, whether you're 14 and.

• 44:54Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 44:55Lewis Howes?

  Dealing with stuff in your mind or some weird stuff or you're 40, you know, we all need those. People that we can have those conversations with.

• 45:02Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah. And, and every, at every stage, at every level, if, if you don't have that outlet. Your, your body is going to carry it for you.

• 45:12Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 45:12Jefferson Fisher?

  Until it, until it can't anymore.

• 45:14Lewis Howes?

  It's going to release in some way.

• 45:15Jefferson Fisher?

  Until it can't. And, and that's, that's what happened with me was just that, that feeling of big time isolation had been. There were more brands and like, you know, like people email you and call you and, uh, you need to go with this.

• 45:29Lewis Howes?

  Want something from you.

• 45:29Jefferson Fisher?

  And, oh, we see this and you ought to do it. And so you're going, wait, man, look, I just, I gotta get chicken nuggets in the oven right now. You know what I mean? Like, can you please?

• 45:38Lewis Howes?

  My kid's crying over here. Let me just deal with this.

• 45:40Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, like I get home, it's, it's mayhem, it's bad time. It's, you know, you just. Yeah, there's no, there's no team of anything beyond the guy in the car yet. But it was definitely that feeling of.

• 45:57Jefferson Fisher?

  I felt like my life was just like starting to just expand in a, in a very surreal way that my body felt despite what my brain was telling it.

• 46:07Lewis Howes?

  What did you realize about yourself from those eight days of panic attacks? That you were holding on to, that you were resisting, or that you were not ready for yet?

• 46:19Jefferson Fisher?

  It was a sense of, don't let them down. Like that was a

• 46:23Lewis Howes?

  What, the number? The number of people watching or following?

• 46:26Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, well, cause they'll comment, they message, they, they say incredibly nice, heartfelt things. I still get to read them. And they're just the kindest, kindest things that you go, I do not deserve to read what I just Yeah, I mean, you just, you just feel like an immediate sense of humility and

• 46:45Lewis Howes?

  Like an imposter or something?

• 46:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Not so much an imposter of a, don't let these people down because they really do depend on that, that advice for whatever reason.

• 46:55Lewis Howes?

  That daily message you give.

• 46:56Jefferson Fisher?

  They've chosen the guy in the car, in the driver's seat. They wanna hear what his thoughts are on, on X, Y, and Z. Which I love. I truly do love it. And I hope I do it for the rest of my life. But it is in that moment, in the very first beginning of me saying, okay, this is happening. Like this is, I guess this is happening. That was a immediate sense of settling into that expectation. I also learned that I was getting a bad habit of holding my breath. When I was working or doing things.

• 47:33Lewis Howes?

  So you weren't breathing as your body was like?

• 47:35Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. And so

• 47:36Lewis Howes?

  I know that feeling, man.

• 47:37Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. So I was reading and that, part of that panic attack is the same sensation you get when your body's drowning. Is because I'm, I'm holding my breath, privy myself of oxygen and my body is like kicking in.

• 47:52Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 47:52Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, you got it.

• 47:53Lewis Howes?

  It needs more oxygen.

• 47:54Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it. And so without me just thinking in the day, I was catching myself more and more holding my breath.

• 48:00Lewis Howes?

  Or shallow breathing or very

• 48:02Jefferson Fisher?

  That's what I'm saying. Yeah.

• 48:03Lewis Howes?

  Barely breathing.

• 48:04Jefferson Fisher?

  Of course I'm alive, but it's like I'm holding it more than I'm letting it out and I'm not fully utilizing my body, which tells me that there is that tension, that like tightness. Yeah. So once I realized that I was holding my breath, that's what taught me of like, okay, well, let's, let's fix that.

• 48:22Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 48:22Jefferson Fisher?

  Because once I started fixing that,

• 48:26Lewis Howes?

  Much, much, much better. Yeah. There's something I've learned over the years about, and I'm curious how you approach this.

• 48:35Lewis Howes?

  And I don't always get it right, and it doesn't always, it doesn't always work for me, but a psychological strategy. When someone is quote unquote attacking me, or saying nasty things about me that I don't believe are true, or maybe it's just, I don't like their way they're saying it, and I don't want it to penetrate my heart and my soul. Yeah. And be reactive and defensive and Right, right, yeah. rigid and frustrated and all these things. When the, when the brow goes like that. Yeah, exactly. One of the psychological or therapeutic uh, strategies that I've learned is to imagine either a a field, an energetic field around me that I can see it, but then it bounces off.

• 49:20Lewis Howes?

  Okay. The words, the intention, the energy, it comes and then blink, it just goes around me and Right. Like water off a duck. I feel like there's a Star Wars reference, but yeah, that's exactly right, yeah. Or what I'll do is I will separate the ego from the self. And I'll have the ego over here next to me psychologically. Yeah. An image of it, the ego of me here. Yeah. I'll just say, oh, they're just speaking to the ego. Yeah, the detachment. They're just, oh, they're speaking over here, and they're actually speaking to me. Yeah. They might be looking at me, but it's just redirecting right here. Right. And, oh, this doesn't affect me. Yeah, they're talking to that guy. Yeah. And I saw, um, I think I saw, I think it was Salma Hayek one time talk about this.

• 50:06Lewis Howes?

  She was giving the example somewhere, a line about how, you know, if someone spoke to you really poorly in Spanish and you don't speak Spanish, you're not going to get defensive. Right. You're just going to be like, okay, I have no clue what this crazy person's saying to me. Um, okay, so just act like it's a different language. Right. There's just different ways of like separating yourself from the hurt or the, the potential pain. Yes. What have you learned? To support yourself psychologically and emotionally and spiritually.

• 50:38Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 50:39Lewis Howes?

  When this feeling of panic, stress comes your way? Or when potential attacks come your way emotionally?

• 50:47Jefferson Fisher?

  So, very similar to yours. I, in my mind, I visually have a trash can next to me.

• 50:52Lewis Howes?

  Oh, okay.

• 50:53Jefferson Fisher?

  All right, and I can see it. It's one of those big, huge, gallon ones. It's the black, shiny. It's, yeah, you got it, yeah. And I see what they're saying is just a shoot. So I can see the words coming. And I'm sifting.

• 51:09Lewis Howes?

  Ah.

• 51:10Jefferson Fisher?

  Because the issue they're telling me is not the real issue. And so if I hear something that's offensive, that's not nice, I just, okay, that's trash. Let me just, I'm just, in my mind, I grab it with my right hand, lift up and throw it.

• 51:24Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 51:25Jefferson Fisher?

  Like, that's, that's what I'll do with my, with my thoughts. And I'm sifting to where if they might have led with something that was snarky,

• 51:36Jefferson Fisher?

  which our inclination is to grab on to that and send it back to them. Yeah, send it back and, oh, I just, I got a good one coming. Instead, yeah, you got it. Instead, if I throw that one away, I might just trash it. And then I found the one word that they said at the very end, towards the end. And that was, that was the one word. And then if I focus on that word, then it all starts to kind of crumble. But that's, I just imagine a trash can.

• 52:04Lewis Howes?

  Well, it's interesting. Now, how do you not? How do you communicate your worth? When someone is being offensive or adding a little digs underneath their language? Maybe they're trying to get a message across.

• 52:21Lewis Howes?

  And they're frustrated, so they're saying a few things that would be offensive to you potentially, or maybe hurt you, or maybe kind of put you beneath.

• 52:29Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 52:29Lewis Howes?

  How do you? Create a boundary consciously with them so that they don't keep doing that in the future, where it's letting them know, hey, this this type of communication doesn't really work for me. It's not okay and and owning your worth.

• 52:43Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 52:44Lewis Howes?

  While also being able to throw it away at the same time and not let it get to you. Like, how do you navigate that so that they that doesn't continue to happen in friendships or in relationships or in career?

• 52:57Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 52:57Lewis Howes?

  Where that doesn't continue. Like, I understand we can do it once or twice or three times, but if someone's always doing that to us.

• 53:04Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 53:05Lewis Howes?

  How do we create create that boundary and and consciously communicate our worth?

• 53:09Jefferson Fisher?

  Depending on the context of who that person is, you know, who they are in your life, some people you can't get away from, I mean, or family members, what have you, but it's a balance of your value and then what we're going to just call as what I'm interested in. So if somebody were going to say something that's offensive in a way and they are pushing me.

• 53:32Jefferson Fisher?

  It's a much more powerful move, a very dominant assertive move to say, I'm not interested in returning what you just gave.

• 53:41Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow, that's a it's a power move.

• 53:43Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, oh, yeah. And see, it's.

• 53:46Lewis Howes?

  So if I say, Jefferson, you know,

• 53:50Lewis Howes?

  it was pretty idiotic what you did the other day to me and I just didn't, you know.

• 53:54Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 53:54Lewis Howes?

  You just looked like an idiot, but I what I really want to do is, as I'm moving forward, I want us to go and do this thing instead.

• 54:00Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 54:00Lewis Howes?

  Whenever I'm just.

• 54:01Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, I'm with you.

• 54:03Lewis Howes?

  How would you respond to something like like that?

• 54:06Jefferson Fisher?

  So if somebody, well, what you kind of did was you you like hit it into something else that they did. So what I I would first do is call that out. I know. I I hear two points.

• 54:22Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. And so I'm like, I'm not gonna skip that.

• 54:24Lewis Howes?

  Okay. So you wanna, you wanna just throw the trash away right away?

• 54:27Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it.

• 54:27Lewis Howes?

  You wanna address it?

• 54:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Well, because they're trying to hide the trash in the good.

• 54:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:32Jefferson Fisher?

  And so I, my response is, well, I see two different things. So that first point, I don't have an interest in responding to whatever, or I'm gonna say, well, maybe I did look like an idiot, but I'm not gonna be, I'm not gonna be holding on to whatever message you're trying to

• 54:49Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 54:49Jefferson Fisher?

  to send to me. But it's a, it's much more dominant move to say, I have no interest in returning what you're sending.

• 54:57Lewis Howes?

  Right. I have no interest in calling you what I saw yesterday, you do, or something like that.

• 55:03Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it. But if you use the phrase, I have no interest, I have no interest in, in talking about your opinion of my performance.

• 55:12Lewis Howes?

  Oh, interesting.

• 55:13Jefferson Fisher?

  You know what I mean? Like, it's, obviously, that's not something you wanna start off with, cuz that could sound, that could sound defensive, that can sound issues, but the point of it is, when you say, I have no interest, you're letting them, I don't have an, it's like you're saying that as you're doing the trash can thing, I really don't have an interest in, you know, this, this kind of food, it's not great for me, doesn't really settle well with me. But what does taste good of what you said, you know, about X, Y, and Z. And so you kinda imagine those words as part of, let's say it's, you know, your diet, sorry, I'm a little lactose intolerant, but

• 55:46Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 55:47Jefferson Fisher?

  so let's, let's skip the milk and talk about something else.

• 55:50Lewis Howes?

  What are the three power moves in conversations that really set you up for success in any conversation?

• 56:02Jefferson Fisher?

  Number one is silence. Just nothing. So if somebody were to say something that's snarky, the, the best move is to say nothing. You just kinda sit back, you look around, you look up, you look off.

• 56:17Jefferson Fisher?

  I'm telling you nine times out of 10, they can't take it.

• 56:20Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 56:21Jefferson Fisher?

  They can't take that silence because then then it's spread out. You've just exposed instead of you covering it up with something else that says, excuse me, what did you say? You're just leaving it open. Kind of like that really was at the best foot you're gonna put out right now.

• 56:39Lewis Howes?

  You got one.

• 56:40Jefferson Fisher?

  You go, that's the one we're gonna choose. And if you just let that silence sit there, oftentimes, and you've probably heard this, they go, I shouldn't have said that. You gotta give them that chance.

• 56:53Lewis Howes?

  That's number one.

• 56:54Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, number one is you gotta, you gotta give them the chance of that silence. Number two, acknowledge that it could be without acknowledging that it is. And you say

• 57:03Lewis Howes?

  Give me an example.

• 57:03Jefferson Fisher?

  Of saying, well, maybe so, maybe you're right.

• 57:08Lewis Howes?

  Did I say you're right?

• 57:09Jefferson Fisher?

  No.

• 57:09Lewis Howes?

  But maybe you are.

• 57:10Jefferson Fisher?

  Maybe, maybe you're right, but it's that piece of humility that says, yeah, well, maybe you're right. I had a guy once who said, I was deposing him and, you know, all these, all you lawyers, worst things that ever happened to America kind of talk. And I said, well, maybe you're right, but today's just gonna be a conversation between us. Is it okay if you're just talking to Jefferson? And he said, yeah, I can do that.

• 57:36Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 57:37Jefferson Fisher?

  And so it's that ability to just say, well, maybe so, but I could have, I could have gotten really defensive with him. I could have, I could have chosen to taken that personally instead of just dropped it.

• 57:48Jefferson Fisher?

  The other power, other power move is to hold off on the timing. So when you are mad, that's generally not the best time to do it. When, like when, when you know you've done something wrong and you want somebody to be mad at you. They're like, fight me, please, like, I know I've done something wrong. Let's, let's have this out. We'll talk about this. You, you want to talk about this and then?

• 58:14Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 58:15Jefferson Fisher?

  Let's talk about

• 58:15Lewis Howes?

  Let's put it in the calendar for tomorrow.

• 58:17Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it. Let's, oh, oh, well, I'm.

• 58:20Lewis Howes?

  Okay, and it's

• 58:21Jefferson Fisher?

  Well, I'm glad, I'm glad you said that. Well, then, you know, I don't really have my thoughts together on that, but

• 58:28Jefferson Fisher?

  why don't we kind of learn to talk about that at noon tomorrow? What do you think? Now that like, oh my God, like I just, I just said something that I shouldn't have said. But that's, that's a much better way of, of, uh, of handling it because at that point you have not lost any confidence. You have not lost your credibility. And you just, you've maintained that you're the one in control at all times. And I'm telling you, the key is just starting with your breath and choosing to be quiet.

• 58:55Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 58:56Jefferson Fisher?

  And if you were to, if you were to say something to me and I responded right away, like if you were to say,

• 59:03Jefferson Fisher?

  I don't know, do you, do you, um, do you enjoy matcha tea? And I go, no. Versus me thinking.

• 59:13Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 59:14Jefferson Fisher?

  Like there is just a different connotation to it when you, when you think about it.

• 59:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Um, about fourteen years ago,

• 59:25Lewis Howes?

  someone gave me a, a line that became one of the most powerful uses of language over the last fourteen years to help me get almost anything I want or more of what I already have. And I use it all the time. When I go, uh, order a coffee, I use it. When I go to a hotel and try to get an upgrade, I use it. When I'm working with, uh, partners and collaborators, I use it. And the line is, what's the chance? What's the chance you can give me a discount on this? What's the chance you can give me an upgrade in this hotel room?

• 1:00:07Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, I love it.

• 1:00:08Lewis Howes?

  What's the chance you can get me in first class?

• 1:00:09Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:10Lewis Howes?

  What's the chance we can collaborate in a bigger way?

• 1:00:13Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:13Lewis Howes?

  What's the chance you can go a little more on this? And I've used that over and over again because it continues to work. And I always use it as a game daily.

• 1:00:24Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:25Lewis Howes?

  Any store I go into, I'm just like, what's the chance you got 10% off on this?

• 1:00:29Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:29Lewis Howes?

  Just to see if you can make something happen.

• 1:00:32Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:32Lewis Howes?

  Cause if you don't ask, you're not gonna get it.

• 1:00:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:00:35Lewis Howes?

  And it's just like a way to be playful. It's a way to like, see, can I enroll someone in something that I maybe I shouldn't be getting, but I'm gonna get.

• 1:00:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 1:00:45Lewis Howes?

  And it often works where the unexpected happens. Is there another line of communication that you use, maybe even unknowingly? That you use consistently that seems to just help you enroll people in more of what you want?

• 1:01:04Jefferson Fisher?

  So I do, I absolutely use the, what's the chance?

• 1:01:08Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:01:08Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. So I will use that when it feels like a, like a stalemate between the other attorney. And look, what's the chance that your client's going to be able to do X, Y, and Z?

• 1:01:23Jefferson Fisher?

  Also, I will try to separate the attorney from the client. Same way I do with like the reception clerk versus the hotel. I, I, I make sure that I acknowledge them as the person, cause I acknowledge their struggle of what they're going through.

• 1:01:40Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:01:41Jefferson Fisher?

  And so if I talk to the attorney of, look, I can only imagine, you know, all the updates you're, you're having to do or all the work you're putting through. I, I know that this is how you're doing the best thing you can for your client. I mean, between me and you, what, what, what's the chance that we can do X, Y, and Z? Or if I were to do, or if I were to say, or if my client were, if I were to encourage my client to do this, is that something that I should do? And it gives them something to think about.

• 1:02:11Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:02:11Jefferson Fisher?

  The same way like at a, let's say at a hotel or something like that. I can only imagine you just been, how long's your shift?

• 1:02:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:18Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, seven hours. And I'm like, gosh, yeah, that's gonna be, and so you just, yeah. You kind of create that connection with them that says, I'm talking to you individually as a person rather than seeing you as the whole. Then, because that's who they are.

• 1:02:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. That's powerful. I want to go back to the, uh, the panic attacks for a moment.

• 1:02:37Lewis Howes?

  Does it sound like you, you really studied and researched a lot on how you could manage and, and and have a better relationship with the anxiety or the stress that you were having for those eight days? Have you had more panic attacks since the moment?

• 1:02:51Jefferson Fisher?

  They've gotten less and less and less.

• 1:02:53Lewis Howes?

  Less and less, maybe like five, 10 minutes at a time or something?

• 1:02:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, so, uh, well, I haven't had, I probably haven't had a panic attack. I've gotten very close probably in the last like three weeks, but what it is, is like a sense of boiling water. Like I can feel the water boiling. And then I'm, and I can feel it in my body. Like I can feel it in my fingers of.

• 1:03:13Lewis Howes?

  Like tingly.

• 1:03:14Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or I'm typically never somebody to shake my leg. But if all of a sudden my leg is shaking, then I'm like, okay, something's up. And then all, like that'll tell me right away of, all right, what, what are we doing? What's going on? Be able to kind of check in with myself and, and how that's been, but it's, it's progressed much better. Yeah, it, it really has. Therapy helps.

• 1:03:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:38Jefferson Fisher?

  And in the, that was really the source was not feeling alone in this kind of ecosystem that I didn't ask for. Like that, this is never my goal of like, if I can only get so many.

• 1:03:52Lewis Howes?

  Followers.

• 1:03:52Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, it was like, uh, let's just go, I don't know, I got a few minutes, like I'll talk to my phone.

• 1:03:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:58Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:59Lewis Howes?

  What is the, what is the relationship been like with your wife and your kids since experiencing the rise of your audience, but also this stress and panic that you've experienced over the last six months? How has your wife shown up for you? And, and how has it made you relate to your family differently?

• 1:04:22Jefferson Fisher?

  Well, having kids has made me much more just empathetic as a, as a person. And I'll tell you that it's. It is a way that we relate to each other is when I see them start to get really emotional, I can see myself in it. Yeah, my son looks a lot like me. And so I can, it's very much this kind of weird inner child like dialogue. Like I'm telling them things that I wish I could have. Oh, man. I would have been told, you know, hey, man, it's okay to cry. Wow. Just let it out, let it out. Now, I was never told that. But I went, I'm not gonna make that mistake. And so my son is extremely waterworks all the time and I love it.

• 1:05:06Jefferson Fisher?

  I mean, he's emotional in movies. I love it, you know, I was, and so I had to, to see that where I go, no, no, no, I've, I've, I've had that mistake of trying to put on this Jefferson's got it all together. This mask. Yeah, yeah, this, I got it all, I got it all together. It's, it's, you were, just let it out, man. So it's all good, it's all good. And he will, he'll just cry, say, I can't help it. And I'll say, you don't need to. You're good, man. You're good. He's, he's very, both of my kids are extremely empathetic with, with movies. Um, I, I shared something before of this was like not that long ago.

• 1:05:48Jefferson Fisher?

  And my son says, how your day was that? It was good, buddy. We, it was, it was, it was good. And he was like, what, what'd you do? I was like, well, it was, it was just good. It was a good day. It was fine. Truthfully, it was not good. Like it was, it was a really horrible, it was a rough day. It was a rough day. I was tired. And later on that evening, he came up to me again and he said, so why'd you tell me your day was good when it wasn't? Wow. I said, what? He said, you didn't, he said, you said it was good, but it didn't, you didn't say it like it was good. I was like, how did you, how'd you know? He's like, you said it like it wasn't good. You said it like it was bad. They feel everything. Yes. And I was like, how are you this young?

• 1:06:32Jefferson Fisher?

  And like, he had already sensed it. Like he told me he was good, he wasn't. Wow. And so that, that kind of aspect of it, when you say, how's my wife showing up for me? She's allowed me to have the time to kind of explore, hey, you need to make sure you're taking care of yourself. And she's awesome at supporting anything that I'm after. And we support both of our careers. She has a full-time career. I was her doing her thing in, in, in school and school law. And I have my, my legal career and. In terms of the social media stuff, it doesn't affect anything like you could you could call it Finseagram like nobody at my house. It doesn't exist at my house. It's just your dad, mom, kids.

• 1:07:15Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:07:16Jefferson Fisher?

  Mayhem.

• 1:07:16Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:07:17Jefferson Fisher?

  That's all that's all it is. Now she's very supportive of it and they know that every once in a while dad will make a video.

• 1:07:24Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 1:07:24Jefferson Fisher?

  So because they want to make videos.

• 1:07:26Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious with your upbringing, which sounds like you had a great upbringing, but also things that maybe you wish you would have had or experienced in certain ways from parents or life. And with what you're experiencing now from, you know, building your career, getting married at a young age in today's society and and now having this kind of following and presence. What are three lessons? If you could only teach three lessons to your kids right now, what would those three lessons be that you wish you would have known growing up or that you did now and you want them to know?

• 1:08:04Jefferson Fisher?

  One would be always be authentic to who you are personally. Don't ever try to be anybody else than than who you are. I can tell you that anytime I felt like I've needed to be somebody else, it was the wrong call. Every time that I tried to be either more or less than just exactly who I am. You know, I see it as just a floor in an elevator. Doesn't mean it's a better floor or not. It's just you need to be exactly where you're you're meant to be. Two is it's okay to to feel like there are it's okay to make mistakes. I grew up in a house where it was very

• 1:08:46Jefferson Fisher?

  it was a lot of, I'll admit, let's put on myself, expectations of being the best at everything you could you could be at whatever it was. I just enjoyed it. And but the understanding that they don't have to put that pressure on on themselves. And number three is be kind to everybody. Kindness kindness never.

• 1:09:09Jefferson Fisher?

  It never changes. People value it now. They always, they always have.

• 1:09:15Lewis Howes?

  We could talk for hours, man, but I want to wrap things up here in a few minutes. Jefferson underscore Fisher on Instagram.

• 1:09:22Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:24Lewis Howes?

  All over social media, you can find you. I'll have everything linked up there.

• 1:09:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, cool. Thanks.

• 1:09:29Lewis Howes?

  You've got a, you've got a book you're working on that we'll probably have you back on in the future when that comes out. But I want people to follow you on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, all the places. Hopefully we'll get you on YouTube soon.

• 1:09:39Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:39Lewis Howes?

  And you do a daily video, man. Your video, I mean, almost every day it seems like. It's like every day you're given wisdom, you're given inspiration from daily lessons in law and your experience in life. And it's really inspiring to see you create from a place of generosity, from a place of service. So I want to acknowledge you for the consistency. And I also want to acknowledge you for opening up about the panics that you've expressed.

• 1:10:07Jefferson Fisher?

  That was hard.

• 1:10:08Lewis Howes?

  And being vulnerable with your community and saying, hey, listen, guys, this is something I've never experienced. And, you know, I love having this community, but also I feel this sense of pressure and this overwhelm that I've never experienced in my life. And, and I think it's powerful to be talking about it because what we keep hidden and we hide continues to manifest and hurt us.

• 1:10:29Jefferson Fisher?

  You got it.

• 1:10:29Lewis Howes?

  And stress us. So the fact that you're talking about it is probably allowing you to release some.

• 1:10:34Jefferson Fisher?

  It really is.

• 1:10:35Lewis Howes?

  And relax some. I'm not saying it's going to solve every issue you have mentally or emotionally, but it's allowing you to set yourself free. So I acknowledge you for not having it all put together, not saying the perfect thing every time, and allowing yourself to express how you feel, which sounds like is what your body needs.

• 1:10:53Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, thank you very much. That's very well put.

• 1:10:56Lewis Howes?

  I acknowledge you, man, for, for doing the work and for continually doing it because it's healing's a journey.

• 1:11:01Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:01Lewis Howes?

  And so I'm, I'm glad you're on that journey. I feel free to reach out anytime you want some support or just a chat.

• 1:11:06Jefferson Fisher?

  Absolutely. Absolutely. No, it's meant so much that you've, that you've been here, but that, that means a lot to me.

• 1:11:11Lewis Howes?

  For sure, man. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end called the three truths. So imagine you get to live as long as you want, but it's your last day on earth. You get to accomplish all the dreams and experiences you want to have. But for whatever reason, all of your material, your content, your videos, the books you make, all these things, they have to go to the next place with you or they're no longer in this world.

• 1:11:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:34Lewis Howes?

  This conversation is gone. But it's your last day on earth and you get to leave behind three truths, three lessons you would share with the world. And this is all we have to remember your wisdom by. What would be those three truths or lessons for you?

• 1:11:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Number one is the best piece of advice I received from my grandfather, who was an old East Texas attorney. He said, boy, you can't look back and plan a straight row. That's always stuck with me. Meaning encouraging people to be in the moment and the present. If you look at what you're doing, rather than looking for the next worry, your head's always going to be in the right place. Number two is you treat people however you want to be treated. It's that very basic golden rule that we've all heard. But sometimes it's the things we've heard the most that we really have soaked up the least. And too many times that I've, you know, we skip over it.

• 1:12:35Jefferson Fisher?

  And number three would be that at any time that you can, show person kindness because you'll never regret it. There's so many things that I feel like generationally in our existence that we just got wrong. It wasn't our fault, we just weren't ready. Like we thought medicine was something different versus what we think medicine is now. Or you look at how we handle punishment or entertainment versus now. But kindness is, it's not affected from inflation or recession. It doesn't depreciate. A little kindness can invaluable.

• 1:13:17Lewis Howes?

  I love it. That was a great truth, man. Final question, Jefferson, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:13:23Jefferson Fisher?

  Greatness is being able to show up for who you are in every level and every stage that you're meant to be in a way that spreads joy to everybody that you touch.

• 1:13:32Lewis Howes?

  I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter

• 1:14:15Lewis Howes?

  and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com/newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.