MFM Goes to Jail - Plus Startup Cities, Prospera, Julian Shapiro Building a Ranch, Testing Out Big Purchases, and More

Sam Parr (@theSamParr) and Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) discuss Sam’s recent trip to a federal prison and what he learned there, whether startup cities are the wave of the future, why more people should test out big purchases, and much more. _____ * Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. * Want more insights like MFM? Check out Shaan's newsletter. _____ Show Notes: (00:20) - Sam shares his experience helping to educate inmates at a prison in Indiana. (08:42) - Shaan shares his experiences also working to educate inmates (25:58) - Prospera and startup cities (37:19) - Why Julian Shapiro is building a ranch in the middle of nowhere (44:55) - Testing out your big dreams (01:03:00) - Teddy Roosevelt and Vladimir Putin _____ Links: * Prospera * Julian Shapiro’s thread on his ranch * The Rise of Teddy Roosevelt * How to Take Over the World - Vladimir Putin

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Shaan Puri?

  And he's like, he's like, you afraid of me, huh? And I was like, I was like, yeah, I'm afraid. And he goes, that's your truth, huh?

• 0:18Sam Parr?

  What's going on? How was Wednesday?

• 0:21Shaan Puri?

  Uh, it was good, man. Ramon was on, so you know, you know, Ramon, Ramon's the best. So Ramon came on and did his thing. He was the best.

• 0:28Sam Parr?

  Good. I'm, uh, I'm happy for him. He's getting a bunch of wins right now, and that makes me happy for him.

• 0:34Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Uh, you, where were you? So you were doing something interesting. That's why.

• 0:37Sam Parr?

  Let me tell you.

• 0:38Shaan Puri?

  Come back, tell us a story.

• 0:40Sam Parr?

  Yeah, let me tell you what I did. So I volunteer with this program called The Last Mile. It was started by my friend, Chris Redlitz. Chris started, uh, he did a bunch of stuff. He was early at Reebok, so he's 65 years old. He was an early employee at Reebok, when he probably became very financially successful there. Then he started a company that he took public, and then he started a VC fund that I, I believe was quite successful. They were in on wish.com and a few other things. And he started this charity or nonprofit called The Last Mile. And the whole vision behind this thing is basically, um, so I, I'm not supposed to use the word inmates. They've asked me not to use the word inmates, but sometimes I'm still going to use that word because that's what most people know what it means. But basically, prison inmates, they are gonna get out.

• 1:22Shaan Puri?

  What do they want you to say?

• 1:25Sam Parr?

  Well, th- and it's a good, it's a good terminology and good way of thinking. But basically, they're like, well, look, we're trying to get them out of prison and into the mindset of they're going to be working and having a job. We don't want to refer to them as offenders as inmates, but students. But, um.

• 1:38Shaan Puri?

  But that would be confusing in this context. Okay.

• 1:40Sam Parr?

  Yeah. In this context, yes. And so I'm going to kind of go against his rules in this context. So there's, uh, something like a million people in prison, right? And a lot of guys are there for 10, 20, 30 years for manslaughter, for doing whatever. They're gonna get out. And whether you like, whether you forgive them for their crime or not, the fact is, is that they're gonna get out. And so The Last Mile is teaching them how to code for about two or three years through a program, and then helping them get jobs at like Slack, I believe eBay, things like that. And they've graduated, I think, eight hundred people out of prison who went through their program, and none of them have gone back to prison. And I believe the average prison, the average person who goes to prison,

• 2:24Sam Parr?

  I think it's like a sixty-five percent chance that they go back to prison.

• 2:28Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 2:28Sam Parr?

  So the fact is that these guys, like, for example, I was with this one guy who, basically, he caught his wife cheating, and they got into an argument. According to the news, I Googled it, she, like, went to fight him with a hammer. He grabbed the hammer and killed her. And he was in prison for twenty years, and I was hanging out with this guy, which is weird. That's weird. You know, that's like a mindfuck. And he was like, yeah, I'm gonna get out in three years. Prior to this, I was an engineer, or, sorry, I was a salesperson at a pharmaceutical company. I had a great job. And I'm learning how to do JavaScript and MongoDB, so I can get a job at a tech company, hopefully, because no one's gonna hire me unless I go through this program.

• 3:12Sam Parr?

  And that's crazy, right? Isn't that weird? Like, I'm hanging out, and I was with my wife, Sarah. We're walking around this prison, just hanging out with these guys, and I get to know them, and I'm like, I would hang, I mean, you're nice enough, you're, we would get along fine. I had no idea you'd ever done this. And they start opening up and telling me what they did, and it's pretty amazing. And it's amazing for a couple of reasons. The first reason is that when you're in this, like, when you're, so some guys are just, like, habitual criminals. Like, I talked to this one guy, I was like, what was your job before this? He was like, oh, I was a meth dealer. I sold meth, and I killed a guy. We went to rob this house, and I killed someone. And, um, and I, and he was like, besides killing them, I was just a criminal. I just did all types of crazy shit.

• 3:55Sam Parr?

  But once I learned how to do coding, I actually got more logical, where I realized that if I do this, then this other thing is going to happen. And so I started learning a lot about impulse control, and I started learning about myself. And so it's like, learning how to code, but also learning about yourself, type of thing.

• 4:08Shaan Puri?

  Like, if-then statement for your life.

• 4:11Sam Parr?

  Yes. And so that's quite fascinating. The second thing is, you know, there's not a lot of black coders, but unfortunately, there's a lot of black folks in prison. And so these guys are learning how to code. We are with, we're in Indiana. It was mostly white people, but I've done this in San Quentin. But like for someone who graduates and leaves jail and they go back to an all black neighborhood, a lot of times it's these, these kids, these young kids, it's the first time they're going to meet a programmer who's black and who looks like them. And so not only are we helping these folks stay out of prison, but it's kind of cool that like, you know, you're actually like helping the diversity issue in tech. And so it's

• 4:46Shaan Puri?

  How the heck did this guy, Chris Redlett, start this? That seems so random from like, you know, your employee at a Reebok and then you start a VC fund and where did this come from?

• 4:58Sam Parr?

  I, I believe the story is 10 years ago, he was dating a woman and she volunteered at a prison and she was teaching, I think math, like she just got pulled into it at San Quentin. She lived in San Francisco and someone was like, hey, we need like, or no, sorry. Someone was like, Chris, can you come and talk about entrepreneurship to these inmates? And he was like, I guess I'll go. And he goes and they're like, can you come again? Can you come again? He's like, I guess. And then eventually he was like, wow, you know, this is a major problem that I'm passionate and I care about. And so him and his wife, they started a thing where they go, hey, um, they went to Sacramento, the, the capital of California, and they basically lobbied for this program. They go, hey, everyone, we'll put up the $100,000.

• 5:40Sam Parr?

  You know, they're talking to the politicians, would it be okay if we did a cohort for entrepreneurship in San Quentin? And they like threw friends a friend, they got in front of the right people and it approved. And then they're like, well, you know, entrepreneurship is okay, but teaching them how to code is way better. And so he starts doing that. And then he goes and convinces Apple, the, I believe the Trump, the Trump administration, the Koch brothers, uh, rich people to donate money. And now they have this like huge program.

• 6:08Shaan Puri?

  That's kind of amazing. They've trained some huge number of people, right? Like there are a lot of people in this program. Is that right?

• 6:15Sam Parr?

  Yeah, they've got, I believe that they only allow like 20 or 30 people per like cohort. And they have like 15 prisons doing it. By the way, if you're listening to this, well, they graduated, I think a thousand people. And I was gonna say, by the way, if you're listening to this, I'm getting some of these numbers wrong. I didn't like write all this down. So whatever I'm saying, divide by two and multiply by two. So I think they have like a thousand people, but let me tell you something that's interesting. So I was in this prison and you want to know what's crazy, dude? Most everyone was really fat and out of shape. And

• 6:47Shaan Puri?

  As a fitness influencer, you just, you couldn't, you couldn't help yourself.

• 6:51Sam Parr?

  Well, here's why this is interesting to me. So I was talking to Chris and I was like, you know, everyone was like fat and like the food that they give these folks. It's horrible. It was like white bread and baloney and like generic like Oreo cookies. And you could buy stuff, but he was like, yeah, well, you know, at some of the longer maximum, uh, maximum security prisons, they're a little bit more fit. But yeah, it's a huge problem. And in China, I was like, Chris, like if we gave these guys like, look, there, I understand like the idea of like, you committed a crime, you sacrificed privileges, whatever. But I think if we just gave them like some better meat and vegetables for every meal and forced them to exercise, like you've got to get up at seven AM and as a prison, we're going to do jumping jacks, pushups, calisthenics. And like, you know, it's like the military, I think they would behave better.

• 7:35Sam Parr?

  And ultimately, like if your body works better, you're gonna maybe behave and act a little bit better. And he was like, yeah, you know, I think I agree, but even in American prisons, you can't force people to do anything. It's like against the law or against the rules. But I started thinking about this and, and I, and I think that's kind of interesting and they do this in China. And he was like, yeah, we, uh, we like got some, we like saw Chinese prisons and everyone shredded because they make you do this.

• 8:00Shaan Puri?

  Wow. Uh, okay. Did you, did you know I've done a very similar thing? So I got a couple of, uh, like when you said you were doing this, I like, remembered back when I did this. So there's a group in the Bay area that does this called the inside, inside circle. I think it's called and nonprofit, they basically go into, it's like a men's group. So for people who listen to this that don't know what a men's group is, uh, it's an idea that's been around for a long time. There's many different flavors of this. There's some that are like kind of business oriented. There's some that are oriented around just changing your life. I forgot what's the, what's the famous one in the Bay area that people think is a cult? That's like a men's group. I don't know if you know the name of it. It's like a weekend, it's like a weekend thing you do. Uh, but there's a whole bunch of these.

• 8:43Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, something like that. Not that, but there's something like that. So anyways, a men's group is where a bunch of men get together. They sit in a circle and they talk about their feelings and they talk about what's going on and they and they have like a whole process that's like basically helps people unpack what's going on inside so that they, when you unpack what's going on inside, you're not carrying all this baggage around and then you you will act more like the way you want to act because you don't have this sort of suppressed and pent up stuff inside. That's my like layman's version of I'm sure there's a much fancier, better way of explaining it. So I went to Folsom Prison, did the same same sort of thing, two day program. You go in, I met this guy Gino, he was kind of like, you know, you get a pen pal buddy, basically. So you know, you meet your buddy and he was in there, he's been in there since he was 18 and he had murdered somebody when he was

• 9:28Shaan Puri?

  18 and he's like been in there for 20 years now, so he's 38. And he was like, you know, yeah, I did this horrible thing when I was 18 and like I'm in here for life, basically. Like my whole life is basically in prison. And he had a great, great attitude about him, funny guy. And he was, you know, he was just, it was kind of unreal. Because I had been, you know, kind of embarrassed to admit it, but I had been kind of, you know, in my head, I just sort of wrote this off. Like I just wrote off people in prison. Like I think society writes them off. And I had sort of just thought like, yeah, I'm not not super interested in going in and meeting people who have murdered people before. But, you know, it's really not that simple. Once you meet them, it's really not that simple. To sort of like bucket

• 10:11Shaan Puri?

  people like that as good and bad. And so, you know, kind of, you know, it's kind of embarrassing to even say it out loud. It sounds obvious. But, you know, it was kind of a, I don't know, it was kind of awakening moment. And then we we did these exercises. So we did these exercises where you're like, you know, you sit in your little group and you talk about what's going on. And it's so funny because it was basically half successful tech guys and then half people from Folsom Prison. And and they would be like, you know, the tech guy is like, oh, you know, you know, just a stereotype for a second, like my kids trying to get into this private school, the admissions process, my wife is really blah blah blah. And then like the next guy, he's like, you know, I haven't seen my daughter in 25 years and I just hope she's okay. And I heard something,

• 10:55Shaan Puri?

  heard something happened to her and I'm not able to help and it's just gutting me. And then the tech guy's like, you know, my company, we raised our A, we're just trying to raise our B. Like, you know, so it was like, it's so funny, like, real problems, fake problems, real problems, fake problems. And, uh, but like, this is sort of like no judgment, right? That's the idea is like, actually, it's funny, the guys who lead you in there, they're very like, sort of wise people. There, there's one guy BJ who runs the program and then, uh, I forgot the name of the other guy. He's awesome guy and he's like, he's like recognized as a shaman and like seven different civilizations in Africa. Like this guy is just a beast in all ways. They, in fact, they call his nickname is Beast Master. Cause he's sort of is able to tame the beasts in the prison. And he's got this like presence about him that you wouldn't believe, like imagine Ray Lewis does volunteer work.

• 11:40Shaan Puri?

  He was in prison, but he was in prison. He got out and then he, you know, devoted his life to this work. And he's like, sort of one of the most wise guys ever. And he said this early on, he's like, you know, let's set some ground rules before we go in here, man. Like, okay, what, what do we? And one guy was like, you know, no judgment. I want to be going here. I don't want to judge the guys in there. He goes, okay, so we're going to lie to ourselves. And he's like, what? What do you mean? He's like, he's like, you're going to make a judgment. When somebody says something or does something, the brain is instantaneously going to make a judgment. And you could sit there and say, no, no, no, I'm not doing it. I don't want to do it. You can try to resist it, but you're going to fail. He goes, instead, let's just agree to this. You'll make the judgment, but then just agree to this. The judgment says more about you than it does about them.

• 12:25Shaan Puri?

  He's like, so just use that, that reaction to teach you about yourself. Don't use it to define the other people in there. That's something that I still use to this day, kind of like in every, every walk of life, uh, because it's, it's so true. So anyways, I had this like crazy experience in there. So I was, uh, I was talking, or I guess like, I don't know if I should even tell the story, but basically I, when I went in, there was one guy in there that just looked like the baddest dude in the prison. He was wearing his sunglasses. Nobody else was wearing sunglasses. He had like a cane. He wasn't the strongest or the biggest, but you could tell he had the Respect of everybody in there and almost like the fear, like a fear version of respect, or at least that's what I perceived. Cause you know, you go into the situation, you sort of quickly

• 13:07Shaan Puri?

  scope it out and you're trying to like, understand the lay of the land. And so instantaneously, my brain's judgment was, that's the baddest dude in here. Like, don't piss that guy off. Don't say the wrong thing in front of that person. Uh, he kind of scares me. And of course, as fate would have it, we get into a group of four, we get matched up, and he's my buddy in the group of four. And this guy, basically, I was, you know, so then you're supposed to like, again, talk about your problems. And I was kind of conscious to be like, okay, I'm not going to talk about these like first world problems. So I tried to say some shit that was like deeper than that. But he saw straight through it, because these people have a very good, you know, bullshit detector. And he was like, he's like, man, you're just saying what we want to hear. He just cut me off, like two minutes in. Oh, that's badass. And I was in the middle of my big, kind of like heartfelt thing, and I'm a good talker,

• 13:51Shaan Puri?

  I'm a good storyteller, I'm a good liar, frankly. Um, and he immediately was like, man, don't come in here and just say what we want to hear. And I was like, oh shit. And then I'm like, my, the guy I was already afraid of is now calling me out specifically for basically one of the worst things you could do in these situations, which is be inauthentic, be fake. And it's like, you didn't really, you really didn't have to do anything. That was the one thing, just don't be fake. Uh, and I was, I was being fake, and this guy called me out on it. He's like, what you really thinking? And I was like, and I just said, what was on my mind? I go,

• 14:24Shaan Puri?

  I go, I really just don't want to sound like an idiot in front of you. And he starts laughing, and he goes, he goes, you afraid of me? I was like, yeah, I'm afraid, I'm afraid. He goes, so if I get closer, you'd be afraid? And he gets closer, closer, he gets right up to my face, like one inch from my face. And he's like, he's like, you afraid of me, huh? And I was like, I was like, yeah, I'm afraid. And he goes, that's your truth, huh? I go, yeah. And he goes, I go, yeah, I'm like, in my head, I'm like, oh, okay, I think I did it right. I just said what I was thinking of that. I think, you know, and so then the brain and the voice in my head that was like judging every word I was saying, kind of like relaxed for a second, because this guy put him at ease. And he was like, He's like, he's like, I can respect that. And he's like, uh, and he starts telling a story about a

• 15:08Shaan Puri?

  time like his life when he was afraid and like, you know, I'm off the hook. I go sit down now. And, uh, and at the end, the guy like, you know, basically gave me a hug on the way out. And he was like, you know, uh, he's like, I hope I see you again sometime. And I was like, wow, that was a just like a little life moment that it doesn't like, I don't know. I'm telling the story now. I don't think this even means anything to anybody, but I remember this like it, like it happened yesterday. There's very few moments in my life that I can remember so vividly, but this was one of them. And I think it's because it was like a primal moment where I didn't know what was going to happen. There was real fear. You talk about this a lot, like we're very rarely in real danger situations. And even though this wasn't actual danger, this guy wasn't going to do anything to me. It definitely felt that way. And I remember it.

• 15:49Sam Parr?

  And the crazy part, and we can move on after this, but the crazy part is like, I think what separates you and me or anyone listening to this podcast, which by the way, I learned, well, I'll talk about that in a second. What separates us from someone like these folks, like there, I, I, I met a bunch of people who are like habitual criminals. They're like, yeah, you know, I just like, I was a drug addict or I was just, I hated authority and I've changed, but I was young and mean. And I met a bunch of other people who worked, I met a guy who worked at Abbott. I met a guy who worked at Ford. I met a guy who as engineers, like, you know, they're probably making six figures and they go, my marriage went horrible. One of us cheated and I got into a fistfight and I killed someone or I hurt someone really badly. And I was like, I don't think I'm ever going to

• 16:29Sam Parr?

  like hurt someone, but I could like, it's not like in a, in a, in a thing of rage, like you could flip out or I could get drunk and kill someone and driving, you know, like you could, and it's not that, we're not that different, some of these guys. And so that was really crazy. And while there, so let's get, we'll talk about business. There's this, there's, these guys have like iPads. They're not Apple, but they're like a different brand of like I, iPad type of like tablet. And, um, you can be an approved podcast. And so if we go through this, the process of getting approved, we can go on there. And there's about, and there's about a million incarcerated folks in America and there's not that many podcasts on this, on this thing. So I was like, oh, I was

• 17:11Sam Parr?

  like, dude, let's boost our numbers. And so I'm, I'm, I'm working with the right people. There's like a company that makes these like iPads. And, and we're going to get on there.

• 17:20Shaan Puri?

  It's called Microsoft and it's a surface. The Microsoft manages this in shambles as you keep calling it an iPad.

• 17:26Sam Parr?

  Dude, I looked it up on Wikipedia. It's this company and they were, they sold to a PE company for $2 billion and they basically make things that the prison gives to,

• 17:36Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 17:36Sam Parr?

  you know incarcerated folks and they can buy, they can like buy movies and shit. And you basically, if you have enough money on your accounts, you can watch movies your entire stay. And so, uh, anyway, it was kind of cool. So that's my story.

• 17:49Shaan Puri?

  I have, I have a related thing. Do you know the guy, Mike Posner?

• 17:53Sam Parr?

  Of course.

• 17:53Shaan Puri?

  The musician? So he,

• 17:55Sam Parr?

  I know who he is. Yeah.

• 17:56Shaan Puri?

  So he's like, kind of like rapper singer type dude.

• 17:59Sam Parr?

  I, I took a pill in Ibiza. That's like a

• 18:01Shaan Puri?

  I took a pill of Ibiza, cooler than me. He's got a couple of big, big, big, big songs.

• 18:05Sam Parr?

  He went to Duke, right?

• 18:06Shaan Puri?

  He went to Duke. So he was there while I was there. We were in the same year and, uh, and I remember meeting him or seeing him and he was saying with this white kid, he said he was gonna be a, a white kid from Detroit who said he was gonna be a rapper. I was like, all right, like eminent, like, you know, that's,

• 18:18Sam Parr?

  Who goes to Duke?

• 18:19Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, like you went to Duke. Yeah, that's not really the path, my friend. Um, but he killed it. He did amazing. And actually, like, one of the things I remember from that was he released his song on iTunes U, um, because he was in school. So he could only, somebody, only a student or professor could put content on iTunes U, which was like the subsection of iTunes. And because most of the things that go up there are like extremely academic, right? It's like a lecture from this random biology class in, at Duke. So now all of a sudden you get this like rap song that goes on iTunes, iTunes U, and he hit the top of the charts on iTunes U and he, he would tell, so he put out there like, yo, I'm number one on iTunes, you know, like parentheses,

• 19:00Shaan Puri?

  you. And so that's how I think he got booked on, at first, that's how he got a lot of college, it's like a growth hack. Like a lot of college students heard his song because iTunes U had like, uh, like there was like the rankings, it's like show the top 10 iTunes songs, which is super competitive. You gotta be like mega famous to do that. And then right below it was top 10 iTunes U downloads and he's, his was number one. And so I think he got a lot of fans that way. And then he booked a bunch of early gigs when he had no name to say it by saying, yeah, I'm number one on college campuses on iTunes. And they were like, well, okay, that sounds decent. All right, well, we'll give you a shot. And that's, and then he went on a college tour and that's how he built his following. So he did a very similar thing to what you're talking about.

• 19:39Sam Parr?

  That's badass. I like him a lot. So that's a good, that's a good story. It's like, it's like Bjork getting famous in Iceland or something like it's better to be like, have like a local maximum, like to be famous on a local, on a local level and then you leverage that.

• 19:53Shaan Puri?

  One more quick prison one before we switch off that. So, um, so my buddy did, my buddy, my best friend, Trevor did this thing called a book storm, which I think is a great idea in general, which is he wanted to write a book. And so he's like, all right, books normally take a long time. What if I did it differently? He's like, so let me, um, he did like a quick, not a draft, but like just a quick like kind of concept of the book. And then he flew out the five most badass people he knew. And he put us all up in a hotel and he said, I want you here for basically a day and a half to just help me think through this book. And he's like, we'll brainstorm it together. And he's like, I think if I just do this with deep intensity, I can make way more progress than if I just kind of like lightly touch this book every day.

• 20:33Sam Parr?

  For like two years.

• 20:35Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, for two years and it totally works.

• 20:36Sam Parr?

  What's their last name? What's Trevor's last name?

• 20:38Shaan Puri?

  Reagan, R A G A N. So he, uh, so he, now he has the book. It's coming out. It did like a, I forgot what he called like a podio book. It's like a podcast of the audio of the book or something like that. So, um, anyways, he was, he flew out. It was me because I was like his best friend from college. And then it was like this person who was like the, um, the, the Olympic coach for the women's volleyball team. And so the US, US women's volleyball has just kicked ass internationally, which is not expected because volleyball is a much bigger sport in other countries. But this guy like turned the program around and like, so he was amazing. He was there and this one guy was there and he had been in prison for 20 years and he had gotten out and he, Trevor does a lot of pro bonos, like talking in prisons. And so he had met this guy in the process and he was like, wow,

• 21:22Shaan Puri?

  this is, this guy's amazing. And this guy shared two things. So I was like, he came out and I was like, man, this guy's like, he is so wise. He is so articulate. I feel like he's read every fucking book because he keeps referencing really insightful pieces from all these different books. And so I was like, what's your story, man? He's like, actually, I was in prison for 20 years. I was like, whoa, no shit. And he goes, you know, uh, I said, so you read all these books while you're there? He goes, he goes, yeah, he goes, my first year when I was there, I was like, I was 20 years old or something like that. He's like, I decided. Decided, I'm gonna see what I wanna see. He goes, so I decided, like you said, they're calling, they're calling them students there. Hey, that's what he did. That's what he did for himself in his brain. He goes, I told myself, I'm not in prison. I'm in university. He's like, and every day I woke up, I said, I have, I'm getting a 20 year PhD in life.

• 22:05Shaan Puri?

  He said, every day I woke up and I just, I would tell everybody around me in the line, we're getting food. I would, this is, this is the student union. I'm at the student union. I'm getting food from the, from the, from the meal hall. I'm going to the library. I am in university right now. I am not in prison. And he just literally like worked himself up into a frenzy where his mind only saw that. And he saw everything as, as university. So he read all these different books. And then similarly, he said, you know, I would look around on the, on the yard. And on the yard, you'd see all kinds of bad shit going on. You know, the black guys fighting the white guys and the Mexican guys and all that. And you'd see broken, you know, just broken down, you know, our basketball hoop was half crooked, all that. And he's like, I just played a game every day. In my mind, I would change what I saw. So I would see a beautiful green field. I would see, he's like, every day, he's like, if I saw a broken glass, I would see roses.

• 22:51Shaan Puri?

  And this guy's mindset impressed me so much. It's another one that stuck with me, which was like, create your own reality. And like, how many times, if this guy could do that in prison, then when I'm waiting in line at Starbucks, I'm not waiting in line bored. I change it in my head, just like the guy changed his university things. That was another one that was like,

• 23:08Sam Parr?

  That's amazing.

• 23:09Shaan Puri?

  A huge life thing that I took away from that guy.

• 23:12Sam Parr?

  Dude, I love this prison talk. We, we should, I gotta, we got, I think we should do like an entire episode on this. There's like all these guys who are blowing up on YouTube who like are, it's all about crime and, and, and prison talk and whatnot. And I learned so much from those folks.

• 23:26Shaan Puri?

  Do you watch these videos? That's basically like a guy, these are not insightful and deep, but they're just entertaining to me. Have you seen these ones where guys will go, they'll film around a police station? And then the cop comes out and he's like, hey, why are you filming, man? What are you, what are you, what are you doing here? Let me see your license, let me see your ID. He's like, nope, I'm not going to show you my ID. And he's like, what? He's like, let me see your ID.

• 23:46Sam Parr?

  I watch that shit all the time.

• 23:47Shaan Puri?

  And he's like, no, I know my rights. I'm in a public place. I'm allowed to film. He's like, yeah, but what are you doing here? He's like, do you not know the rights? And they just like talk back to cops and there's something about this about just talking back to cops.

• 23:58Sam Parr?

  It's called, it's, it's called justice porn and it's fun.

• 24:01Shaan Puri?

  Exactly.

• 24:02Sam Parr?

  It's justice porn. That's what I call it. It's like.

• 24:05Shaan Puri?

  And the comments are super polarized. Half the people are like, what an asshole dude. You're just making, you're just being annoying to the cops. They're like, you're provoking them. And then they take the bait and then you like jump on them with, because you, you, why did you spend your day doing this? And then the other half of people are sort of like me. They're like, God, I don't know why I find this so entertaining. I just love when somebody like.

• 24:25Sam Parr?

  It's just like watching a car accident.

• 24:27Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, there's something to it, man. I can't, I can't resist. That's my junk. That's my new reality TV.

• 24:32Sam Parr?

  Yeah. Go to reddit.com slash justice porn and there's a whole subreddit for that. And there's like a million subscribers. It's pretty crazy.

• 24:41Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it's, it's nuts. There'll be a guy gets pulled over and he's like, let me see your ID. And he shows him a passport from another country and he's like, uh, no, I need your ID. He's like, no, you don't. There's a treaty that says if I show you this passport, blah, blah, blah. And you cannot arrest me. And he's like, no, some random ass like loophole. And he's just driving around fast, hoping to get pulled over just so he can do this thing on camera and get a bunch of views. It's kind of sick, but I like it.

• 25:02Sam Parr?

  Speaking of other countries, let me tell you about something interesting. Have you heard of Prosper? Have you heard of Prospera?

• 25:09Shaan Puri?

  Para, that sounds very familiar. What is it?

• 25:11Sam Parr?

  Okay, so I almost, or I'm in the process and I hope I can make it happen of investing in this company called Mini Circle. So Prospera is this new like private charter city. We've talked about private charter cities a bunch.

• 25:27Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 25:27Sam Parr?

  Okay. And so it was set up in part by Peter Thiel, who's a very controversial weirdo type of guy. I like him, but a lot of people don't. Um, and so he basically set up this country or the city in Honduras. And they have their own rules and their own laws and weird things like that. So do you know what gene therapy is? Have you heard of gene therapy?

• 25:48Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Is it basically like is would CRISPR be part of gene therapy? So it's basically the modification of your DNA in order to like fight disease? Is that is that a good description?

• 25:57Sam Parr?

  So it's this very experimental kind of technique, kind of like medical procedure where basically you insert and modify genes in order to in in order to replace surgeries or drugs. So for example, there's this kid in Syria. He had some weird disorder where like all this skin started deteriorating deteriorating. He was about to die and they did this gene editing stuff and he was able to regrow back his skin. And a lot of people, but it's very controversial because you're doing a couple of things. You're kind of like playing God, which I don't buy in, but that's an argument. People don't like that. Yeah, and people don't like it. And also it's experimental. And so the FDA like very closely monitors this stuff.

• 26:39Sam Parr?

  And they'll say like, yeah, and so there's and there's a lot of like weird like biohacker fringe types who are interested in this stuff. And so it's all like controversial kind of, but nonetheless, it's cool. So I'm trying to invest in this company called Mini Circle and they're making this new gene therapy that like increases muscle mass, bone density, helps you with insulin sensitivity and does all this like crazy shit to you. But in order to get it done in America, you got to go to the FDA and it's like this big process. And so they've moved their company to Prospera, this Peter Thiel city in order to make all this shit happen. And they're doing their testing on people.

• 27:17Shaan Puri?

  Or is this the one?

• 27:18Sam Parr?

  In Honduras.

• 27:19Shaan Puri?

  Latin America. Okay, Honduras.

• 27:20Sam Parr?

  It's in Honduras. And so they're doing it like, so basically they're like, we're working with fully informed and trusted. I'm reading off something. We're working with fully informed and trusted study participants who are choosing to do this.

• 27:31Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 27:31Sam Parr?

  But it we couldn't get this done in America. It would take 40 years to do this. We're going to do this on this land, on this weird city type of thing.

• 27:38Shaan Puri?

  Yep.

• 27:39Sam Parr?

  And I'm trying to invest in this company. I think it's ridiculous. I think it's crazy, but.

• 27:44Shaan Puri?

  Kind of cool. It is very cool. I invested in one charter city called Praxis. And what they did was pretty smart. They were like, they first created just a bunch of like, like a group here in America. So they invited a bunch of cool people from New York, LA, San Francisco. And they're just like host events. So they're dope parties. So these people, they're like in a community, they get to meet each other at these events. And there's like an online component. And they keep doing this, they keep doing this. And meanwhile, they're searching, they're going around to like all around the world. And they're basically negotiating with governments. And they're saying, hey, give us some free land and let us have our own rule of law and rule of financial

• 28:23Shaan Puri?

  law in like our own financial regulations and our own rule of law in this zone. We're going to create a new city and we're going to bring all these like cool people plus like development dollars to your place. Right? So in the US, you could never say, hey, US government, go give us, you know, a little piece of Wyoming. They're not really going to give you that. But you know, you go to whatever, you know, you go just in the Mediterranean, to the Balkans, and you find some random piece of land, you say, oh, this is beautiful. It's right on the ocean. It's undeveloped. And you go to the government, you say, look, what if I could get a bunch of people from America, you know, successful people who want to kind of live in a new, a new charter city. And, and so it's this like really wild moonshot idea. I totally, fully expect this

• 29:08Shaan Puri?

  investment to go to zero. I put in a very small check, but I had to participate because the founder was so convinced that like, yeah, of course, people will do this. And, and that if you did it, it would be very large. It'd be like owning the raw land, you know, you know, the land under Manhattan, where all the buildings are going to get built. And you can either do development yourself, or you could sell off the pads and make a ton of money. So the business is great if you can kick off a new charter city. And one of the ways you attract people is this, like, if you own, if you have your own rule of law, you can say, hey, biohackers, come here because you're allowed to do, you know, you're allowed to run your experiments here because we have our own kind of like free zone where we can do our own shit. And so I think it's really cool what's happening. Biology is pretty convinced that in the next

• 29:51Shaan Puri?

  10 years, we're going to see charter cities, you know, pop up startup cities.

• 29:55Sam Parr?

  Yeah. And on one hand, to say, to explain why this, like, why the haters exist on this, and why I definitely hate on them a little bit, or, you know, there's like some negativity, which is like, it's most likely like fringe libertarian types, kind of like how all the Bitcoin rich folks are going to Puerto Rico to avoid taxes, you know, you could say like, the FDA exists for a good reason, rules exist for a good reason, you guys are freaks just trying to like, avoid the reality. And there's definitely a truth to that. And there are like, probably, that's a solid argument, some parts of that. And then on the other side, you could say, well, like, that's like, what the fucking America started, right? You know, we bailed on.

• 30:35Shaan Puri?

  We were the free experimentation zone, right?

• 30:38Sam Parr?

  Yeah, like, we rode a ship across, like, you know, 3,000 miles, not knowing what to expect, and we just landed and we figured it out. So.

• 30:46Shaan Puri?

  I think even the people who like startup cities would say, yeah, great, there should be the FDA, there should be all the stuff for most people in most places. But if it covers all, all land and all people within a country, then you stamp out the wild experimentation. So I know the Google guys have been talking about this before, which is that they need a, there should be a free space where if you opt in, you can go and you can do some of the experimental things that you can't do here. And the learnings from that, let's say, nine out of the 10 things don't work out, or they have bad consequences. Okay, fine. But if one breakthrough innovation or, or discovery is made, then that can be exported back to the mainland. And we could say, look, let's go, let's take this through proper testing, and let's roll it out to everybody. So like, you know, people go to Germany to

• 31:31Shaan Puri?

  go get, you know, stem cell treatments and things like that, because it's not legal here, but in other countries, they're more liberal about it. So like, you know, I started a company once, a biotech company, and the technology was made in the US. The government, US government had funded $40 million of R and D for this technology. But you couldn't go use it in anywhere in the US, because the, like, you would never get the permits. The people would say, why would, we will not let you put these microbes into the ground. It was basically these little micro bugs that could eat coal underground, so you don't have to mine it. And they would basically just like fart or breathe out natural gas. And so they will just mine the coal themselves, and you just collect the natural gas. You don't have to frack the earth, and you don't have to mine the coal. But the US would never let us pump these microbes into the ground, because they're like, we don't have to. Life is pretty good

• 32:16Shaan Puri?

  here. We don't have to do that. So we went to Indonesia, and we went to India, where they were like, Yeah. Hey, here's a huge plot of land. How much money do you need to go do this? We love this, right? We want economic activity. We want innovation. And if this works, then we want to capture some of the upside of being able to like sell this technology to others. And so we got quick permits in Indonesia and India where we couldn't, you know, the company's trying to do the same thing in the US. They were bogged down for years and never got approvals.

• 32:44Sam Parr?

  Have you ever heard of medical tourism?

• 32:46Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I've always been curious about like how, how people have the guts to do this, but it makes sense. You go to Mexico, get your teeth fixed or whatever, you know, have you ever done anything like this?

• 32:56Sam Parr?

  No. So for those who don't know what this is, I learned about this because me and Sean's buddy, John Howard, you're friends with John Howard?

• 33:01Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, yeah, he's great.

• 33:03Sam Parr?

  We, I shared an office with him at this place called Founder's Dojo and they created a company, I forget the name of it, but it was basically medical tourism. So basically, um, I, I think a, a use case is typically like dentists or like veneers and teeth stuff. Although then there was other stuff like breast implants and, uh, plastic surgery. Where their premise was basically it's cheaper to get it done in Bali or Mexico or India, somewhere like that where like there, I have no idea if this is true. They're like, the, the doctors are just as good, but it's a fraction of the cost to fly out there, get the surgery done and chill there for a week and recover and fly back. The company did not work out. And frankly, in my opinion, it sounds like a fucking pain in the ass.

• 33:46Sam Parr?

  I would never do that. I'd rather pay $20,000 in America for veneers, but be able to get it done like three blocks from my house than I would want to go to Mexico. But.

• 33:57Shaan Puri?

  Well, yeah, it's not, it's not for you, right? It's for somebody who can't afford it here. It's, it's not if I could do this or that. It's, I can't do this and my teeth fucking hurt. Or I can't do this and I need this surgery done. Uh, okay. If I can't afford it here, even with insurance, then okay, I'll go to Mexico and I'll do it because I have no, no, no real other option. Or I, it's so prohibitively expensive. It would cripple me financially. And I don't want to save my health and cripple my finances. So I'm going to do this. There's, I think it's a hundred billion dollars a year is paid out.

• 34:27Sam Parr?

  No way.

• 34:28Shaan Puri?

  It's a hundred billion dollars of medical tourism per year globally.

• 34:32Sam Parr?

  That amazes me. I never would have thought that. I just think it's

• 34:35Shaan Puri?

  Cause it seems wild, that's what I'm saying.

• 34:36Sam Parr?

  Pain in the ass.

• 34:37Shaan Puri?

  It seems wild, right? But I think that's the, you know, when people are pushed into a corner, they will find a way, you know, that is sort of the innovation of people. And yeah, I'm actually surprised this thing didn't work. What he was doing was he was selling leads. So he would find customers who are interested in it. He would educate them and he would sell those leads to the medical offices, you know, in Mexico or wherever and say, hey, this person is interested. They want to do a phone call with you. Would you pay us a hundred dollars for that lead? And they were like, yeah, sure. You know, and I honestly think that business should have worked and would have worked. Had he stuck with it. It was like a pivot and maybe he didn't have enough time to figure it out.

• 35:12Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I don't, I don't know the particulars, but I know that it's when he told me about it, I was like, there's no way this would work. But I say that about a lot of stuff.

• 35:22Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. All right. What else you want to talk about?

• 35:26Sam Parr?

  I don't know. What do you want to do?

• 35:27Shaan Puri?

  Let me look at your list here. Okay. So there's Julian Building a Ranch. I think that's pretty cool. And we should talk about that. Let's do Julian Building a Ranch and then let's do.

• 35:37Sam Parr?

  Let's do that.

• 35:38Shaan Puri?

  Okay. I have a, I have a good deep dive, but I'm going to save it for the next episode. It's a good one about the diamond industry.

• 35:43Sam Parr?

  All right. Lay the background of this. So you know Julian better than I do, right?

• 35:48Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. So Julian Shapiro, he's just at Julian on Twitter. A lot of people follow him there. I think he's got like, you know, 200,000 or maybe more followers.

• 35:55Sam Parr?

  He's a weirdo.

• 35:56Shaan Puri?

  Total weirdo in the best way possible.

• 35:59Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 36:00Shaan Puri?

  He called me the other day and I said, I go, hello. And he goes, the love of my life.

• 36:06Shaan Puri?

  Like check my phone, who the fuck is calling me? And then he's like, I have this deal, blah, blah, blah. And then he, you know, just goes straight into it. Doesn't even acknowledge the love of my life part. It was just hilarious. He's just a hilarious character. He sends us like the funniest memes. Like on Twitter, he's like this really thoughtful, intellectual, like guy who'll teach you how to write and teach you about all this other stuff. Teach you how to think frameworks, blah, blah, blah. And then in our group chat, he's sending, you know, the goofiest memes, which is like, that's my favorite type of person who's got both of those sides to him, the silly side and the smart side. So he tweeted out that he's basically, he's been talking about this for a while. So it's not just like a bullshit thing. But he's like, he really, really wants to build a ranch. Actually, by the way, I should share the most interesting thing about him. For the last eight months, all he has eaten is Wagyu steak and boiled eggs.

• 36:54Shaan Puri?

  Which I don't believe. I believe it because he's crazy and he kinda needed to. I think he had some like, his gut health wasn't right. He just like took control. He's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna figure out how to fix this. The doctor's not helping me. I'm gonna fix this myself. He had read about the carnivore diet. I think Jordan Peterson had a very similar like, kind of like issue and he famously came out, so I did carnivore, it healed me basically. And so he started doing it. He started feeling a little better. Then he committed to it. He's like, okay. So he literally orders wagyu steak from these like farm, from this one farm actually in particular. And he orders like $3,000 a month of steak. And he shows me his freezer. His freezer is just full of bricks of steak. Like, imagine like, you know, when you see in a movie piles of cash, like just bound up piles

• 37:38Shaan Puri?

  of cash. It's that, but with wagyu steaks. And so he had like-

• 37:41Sam Parr?

  And he said, he said it was miserable for like six or eight weeks. He was like, I craved carbs. I craved sugar. And then he got six, eight weeks into it. And he's like, I can't even imagine eating sugar or carbs again. I don't crave them at all. It sounds horrible.

• 37:56Shaan Puri?

  By the way, that's a real thing from what I understand that there's, there's basically in your microbiome, in your gut, there's all these, you know, basically there's bacteria that live there. And the bacteria feed, the different yeast and bacterias feed off of different like substrate, different, different food. And so the more you eat carbs, so imagine if what you're putting in is carbs, the bacteria that thrived off of, let's call it meat, are gonna sort of die out. And the bacteria that thrive on carbs are gonna like proliferate. They're gonna spread, they're gonna multiply and they're gonna, they're gonna make up the majority of your gut. And then if you decide to switch and go low carb, all of a sudden those bacteria are gonna say, where the hell's our food? And the, in the craving you feel, those carb cravings is not just like your mind being weak.

• 38:40Shaan Puri?

  It's literally the gut bacteria that are signaling to your body, we need our fix, we need our shit or we're gonna die.

• 38:46Sam Parr?

  Dude, what are you, are you reading about body stuff now? How do you know all this?

• 38:50Shaan Puri?

  Uh, no, I heard this once. I was fascinated by it and somebody had told me this and I looked into it because I was like, is that bullshit? And like, I'll just say, half the shit I read five years later turns out to be bullshit. So like with health, I feel like nobody knows anything. But in hearing this, I was like, oh, that makes total sense. And that's how you get, you know, just like you get withdrawal pangs if you stop caffeine, the same exact thing happens with carbs. And when you know that that's what's happening, you're like, oh, okay. I just need to ride you motherfuckers out. Like, I just need to keep, I just need to hold you guys, I'll starve you guys out. And in seven days, you'll be dead. And the only bacteria left will be the ones that feed that like the stuff I want to be eating. So it's a total thing.

• 39:28Sam Parr?

  Well, okay. So, and back to Julian. And by the way, that's always why I wanted to start my startup called Hostage, where we just like take you and throw you in this like, like land and keep you in a cabin for like three weeks and just like monitor exactly.

• 39:41Shaan Puri?

  Guaranteed weight loss program. Would you?

• 39:44Sam Parr?

  Yes.

• 39:44Shaan Puri?

  Would you be interested in a 10 day program that would guarantee results? I will, I will pay you a hundred thousand dollars if you don't lose weight. It sounds good.

• 39:53Sam Parr?

  We just give you 1400 calories a day.

• 39:55Shaan Puri?

  Welcome to Hostage.

• 39:56Sam Parr?

  Yeah. Yeah. Like, would you like a glass of water? Like, that's all we, that's all you get.

• 40:04Shaan Puri?

  One of your top 10 ideas. So anyway, so Julian, basically, yeah, he buys, and by the way, the ranch thought he was a restaurant because he was ordering so much fucking steak. They're like, well, certainly you're a restaurant. Here's your like wholesale price break. And it just turns out he's just a dude. Anyway, so he really wants to build this ranch in the middle of nowhere because he's thinking about wherever I want to live. And then he tweeted out this thread that I love. It's just, just search his name, Julian, and I'm building a ranch in the middle of nature. And basically, he's like, you know, why am I doing this? I want to leave San Francisco. I, you know, I just think it'd be amazing. And he basically tweets out his plans. He's like, here's where I'm looking. Here's the land. Here's how much it costs. I'm going to build this like, these like prefabbed homes. I'm going to build this podcast studio. I'm going to have like, blank, blank, blank. You like this. I know this is

• 40:49Shaan Puri?

  like right up your alley. So what did you think about this?

• 40:53Sam Parr?

  Okay, so.

• 40:55Sam Parr?

  This is, in my opinion, very romanticized, incredibly not practical, and it won't work in most cases. Have you ever been, you know, you live in, you lived in a city for a long time, you now live in the burbs, but it's still populated with people. Have you ever been by yourself for a while, like in rural area?

• 41:12Shaan Puri?

  Shoot me. Yeah, horrible.

• 41:14Sam Parr?

  It's fun for a minute. It's great. I was just in Hawaii and it was like, this is relaxing. This is great. I can't, I think that-

• 41:22Shaan Puri?

  You basically, you want to do it to the point where you're like, ah, I felt the benefits. And now I want to run back into society and tell everyone how awesome I am for doing this retreat from society.

• 41:33Sam Parr?

  Yes. And so like, I'm reading the Teddy Roosevelt biography and he did the same thing. So basically, um, his wife and mother died on the same day and it was tragic. It's horrible. And while she, the wife died, Allison, while giving birth to his daughter. So like the most complicated day ever. And he was like, the light of my life is gone. I cannot live anymore. Uh, just life is done for me. And so he went and he bailed and he lived in the Badlands, which is in the Dakotas. And he said, I feel replenished. I feel wonderful. But you still got to get, he went eventually back to DC and or New York and became a politician. And I think that, I think what a lot of people overestimate is, or rather underestimate,

• 42:15Sam Parr?

  is community. So in order to make this work, I think a few people can make this work, but for nine out of 10 folks, you need peers, you need family, you need friends. Life is, I don't give a fuck if I live in the most beautiful place on earth. If I don't have people that I can see on a regular basis who I love, it's stupid. I'd rather live poor and in a shack with people I love than in a mansion on a 50, 50 acre, 100 acre plot of land that's beautiful.

• 42:41Shaan Puri?

  A hundred percent agree. I think, um, part of his plan is to basically have a bunch of basically guest houses, make it an awesome ranch where he'll just have this rotation of kind of friends and cool people that want to come stay. And I think that will, I think that will happen. Uh, but he's, I think he's single. So I don't think, you know, if I went out there with my, my wife, my kids, then I think I could last a lot longer than, than if I went out there literally by myself. You just hoping to kind of friends would come to visit. So I think that is one thing. And I think this is a great example of you want to have this dream, but then I think you need to test it. I think you need to go live. I think he needs to stop right now. He should go somewhere for one week and just say, okay, let me go test. Or two weeks, let me go spend two weeks by myself in this Airbnb in the middle of nowhere. And let me just see how I feel after two weeks and then let me try that again.

• 43:27Shaan Puri?

  And I know he's got the discipline because if you can eat steak only for, you know, steak and eggs only for, for eight months. Props, but like you don't want it to feel like an endurance contest. If you're trying to choose your lifestyle, you want it to be one that feels effortlessly awesome, not like a, a, a test of your mental fortitude. I think so. I think it's amazing. I would love to go visit, but I would not want to do this myself.

• 43:48Sam Parr?

  So I've actually like done this a bunch of times. So there's a bunch of stuff that I wanted in my life. And I was able to test it on a very small scale and I'll give you a few examples. So for example, um, I wanted to retire and so I had the opportunity a couple of years ago, I took six weeks off.

• 44:04Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 44:04Sam Parr?

  And I just took it off completely. And by the fifth week I was like, I can't retire. I have to be around, I have to have something to do. Another example is buying a fancy car. You can go and test these cars for.

• 44:16Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 44:16Sam Parr?

  It's a lot of money. It's a thousand dollars a day, but you could, testing a $200,000 car for two days is my, you, you, you get into it. You're like, this Ferrari is so small. I cannot drive this up and down like a driveway. It's just going to smack the ground and it's not fun or exciting.

• 44:32Shaan Puri?

  I'm stressed about this and the fun of having it versus the stress of having it is actually not a good trade. Now that I feel it, I know it.

• 44:39Sam Parr?

  Another example is having a 5,000 square foot home. For the longest time I was like, I want a 5,000 square foot house. So I went and rented a 5,000 square foot house. I spent a lot of money, maybe I think I did it in New York. I rented a 5,500 square foot house and it was like $13,000 for a month. A lot of money, no doubt about that, but the house was way more expensive than that. And I got in this house and I was like, I, I cannot imagine having to fix all this crap all the time. This is exhausting. I can't do this. I don't want this. Or I'm, I'm only using the living room, the bedroom and this huge kitchen, which I like. I don't need these six other bedrooms. And, um, anyway, I think that you could actually test a lot of stuff and more people should do that. They should, they, you can.

• 45:20Shaan Puri?

  Hundred percent. Dude, so I, I, I'm okay. I'm gonna rant for a second. Think about like in college, right? So I think there's this crazy thing in society, which is like over commitment and over specialization without dabbling. So like you're a freshman. I remember at the end of my freshman year in college, I had to commit to a major. Like dude, I had just figured out like where the hell the bathroom is. I don't know what a major is. I don't know what the other majors could be. I know that if I don't commit, I'm gonna be falling behind and off track. You know, I'm not gonna have my credits on time and I'm not gonna know what courses to take. And I'm basically picking my career without ever even knowing what my career should be. So forget what classes I'm gonna like. These, my major sort of dictates what job I'm eligible for at the end. And I think it's crazy. And then same thing with

• 46:04Shaan Puri?

  people's, you know, like first job, they just sort of pick a career track without dabbling and figuring out what they actually might like to do. The, like the idea of dating is amazing. Like my parents were arranged marriage. So they, you know, they literally, my mom read an ad in the newspaper for my dad, which said like, you know, six feet tall, which is a slight lie. You know, he's 510, you know, Indian, what else? Engineer degree and good family. That was basically the ad. And she was like, They described like every Indian American. Good enough, good enough to marry. Let's, let's, let's meet. And then they, the parents met and they're like, okay, in this one tea we're having together, this one coffee meeting we're having? All right, cool. Done deal. See you. The next time I see you, we'll be at the wedding.

• 46:49Shaan Puri?

  And that's how they got married. And like, you know, Really? Shocker that, you know, these marriages aren't always the best. And so that, But are they happy? No, most, so I would say like Indian marriages have like a very low divorce rate because like societally, it's like, like there's like a taboo against getting divorced. So they just like even worse, stay together unhappy is what most people do. And then obviously some get divorced, but like there's arranged marriage ideas. It's not great. Now, the counterpoint would be, You know, I think in New York, there's a 53% divorce rate also. So, you know, maybe the whole dating thing doesn't work as well. So that's the, that's a fair counterpoint. But I would say this idea of dating of basically try before you buy is, is really important in life. And like these, these tests that you've done for yourself are super important. And I'm

• 47:34Shaan Puri?

  shocked more people don't do them. I started doing them and I'm like, wow, that's way better than this. Like, I'll just have this idea in my head and it'll get so real in my head. And then when I finally do it, I'm like, oh shit, that was underwhelming. It's like, couldn't I have just sampled this beforehand and known that and not have this idea? Like, um, uh, what's an example? Uh, like, okay, I'll give you an example on the plus side. So the example of the plus side. So I hired a chef. So I have a personal chef. I wanted a personal chef for a really long time.

• 48:04Sam Parr?

  How much does that cost a month?

• 48:06Shaan Puri?

  So, um, how much does it cost me a month? It's about $3,400 a month, uh, $3,500 maybe, uh, 3500.

• 48:14Sam Parr?

  And that includes food?

• 48:16Shaan Puri?

  That does not include the food. No, the food's on top. Uh, that's just like the

• 48:19Sam Parr?

  Just service.

• 48:19Shaan Puri?

  The service of having a private chef in my house. And, uh, by the way, worth it. Amazing. Like, you know, uh, fortunate to be able to afford it, but like, to me, I don't have a fancy car. I don't even have a fancy home, but I got a housekeeper who comes, you know, through three days a week and I got a private chef. And to me, that's like, that's my version of luxury. That's like, you know, that's my version of a Lambo. It's like a lifestyle Lambo.

• 48:43Sam Parr?

  Does this person, tell me everything. Does this, so I have a chef as well for a minute, but it was a little bit different. It was more like meal prep. Does this person come? And, and I paid way less, a fraction of that.

• 48:52Shaan Puri?

  Right. Well, I'm in the Bay Area too. So, you know, it's a

• 48:55Sam Parr?

  Yeah. But my guy came two days a week and they would meal prep for me. And I didn't like it. I ended up just not using him and I, I made my own food.

• 49:03Shaan Puri?

  So, so I tested, so to, to do the sample idea. Uh, I first even got the idea because I got to sample it. So my previous company, Monkey Inferno, you've, you've been there before for lunch, I think probably, uh, the, the, the investors behind us, they were kind of like a billionaire family, the, the Birch family. They had a private chef in their home, but you know, they were out and about all day working or they'd be at the office. So Chef would just come to the office and cook for all of us. And so, you know, a company of like 20 people and he would cook this amazing spread and all of a sudden healthy food tasted good. So immediately I was like, holy shit, this is kind of amazing. I don't have to like go out, figure out what to eat every day. This guy just decides. So that's one decision I don't make. He cooks healthy food and it tastes like junk food. All right. That's like, you know, wow, that's amazing. If I just ate this for all my meals, I'd be way healthier than just my lunch.

• 49:48Shaan Puri?

  And so, um, so I got to sample it. That told me I want this. Um, and there was other things that I got to try, you know, when I was at their house or fancy parties that they throw or fancy cars that they have. That, you know, I got to try and I was like, I, I don't care about this. Good. I can scratch that off the list. It's one less thing I want. It's one less thing I care about. And so that's just hanging out with them got me, got me to try some things that I thought I was working for and figure out what I like and don't like. So then I tried some meal prep people, but what I figured out, what I really like is somebody who comes, I don't decide what to eat. They know my, they know my. Life, they know what food I like. They know what, what health, what level of healthiness I care about. And they just come make it fresh on the spot. Cause saying fresh food tastes way better than meal prep food.

• 50:33Shaan Puri?

  And so she comes and she, and then I also thought, I also realized, oh, this is not just about my health. Like one of the most time consuming parts of being a parent is constantly trying to feed your kid. I like, my kid's like a picky eater. And so she, uh, you know, like I'm making the three dishes for her every meal, just trying to get her to eat something that she likes. And, uh, that just takes up more time than even cooking for myself did. So the chef cooks for me, my wife who's vegan and, uh, our, our baby. And so our baby now eats like way better than when we were just. You know, let's make some mac and cheese. Let's warm something up and, um, and it makes it fun to feed her because I'm tired. So she, so right now she's coming three days a week. Uh, so she comes every other day, basically. And then on the weekends, we want to eat out. So we like to go to restaurants or whatever. So we said, don't, don't come on the weekends.

• 51:17Shaan Puri?

  And, uh, we may move it up to five days, uh, at some point, but right now it's good. Basically, and it's little things like, uh, here's a green smoothie. She makes every, you know? So in between meals, instead of a snack, it's she's like, oh, you want your smoothie? I'm like, oh yeah, I do want that smoothie. Thank you. Have you lost weight? Uh, I think so. I don't really weigh myself, but in the mirror. You look like you lost weight. I look better and I don't know if my weight has changed. I don't, I don't use the scale, but I just use the mirror as the scale. And so.

• 51:42Shaan Puri?

  How often does your cleaner come? Three days a week also. And how much do you pay for that?

• 51:49Shaan Puri?

  Hundred sixty bucks per visit, I think.

• 51:52Sam Parr?

  Damn dudes, you spend a lot of money on these things. I mean,

• 51:55Shaan Puri?

  I spent a lot of money on these things. They make me extremely happy.

• 51:58Sam Parr?

  Do it, but.

• 51:59Shaan Puri?

  They make like the feeling after the cleaners are here is like, you know, that's like a high for me. That's like, I did it. Well, I don't know what Molly is, but that's Molly for me. I feel so good in my own home. It's amazing. Having food, having fresh, healthy food made. I think that's, that's a, a treat. That's absolute treat for me.

• 52:17Sam Parr?

  I, I'm perfectly happy with, we have a cleaner who comes every two weeks and I think we spend a hundred and twenty or a hundred. I don't remember, but.

• 52:25Shaan Puri?

  I'm also messy as fuck and I have kids and they're messy as fuck. So like, you know, the house gets destroyed. You know, my sister cleans, I think four times a day in her house, just putting, putting toys away every, you know, every four hours, basically. So it's crazy. Uh, but I don't know if people care about this, but I guess my, my, my, the point I was trying to make is I think sampling.

• 52:42Sam Parr?

  This episode is already like totally random. We're just gonna go with it.

• 52:46Shaan Puri?

  I think sampling your lifestyle is super important. I'll give you one more story here that, that helps. So, um, you know that I did a podcast from Vegas. I said, I was, I was at somebody's home, uh, you know,

• 52:57Sam Parr?

  15,000 square feet.

• 52:59Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Uh, I don't even know how, how many, it's like 10, 10 to 15,000 square feet. Just unbelievable. It looks like a hotel, basically. And unbelievable. They, they have a, they have a Lambo and a Ferrari and a monster truck and like all this other cool shit. They have all the toys. There's a batting cage in the backyard. There's a, you know, like a infinity pool that looks over the city. You know, you can see the strip. There's like everything you would want in a home. They got it. Elevator, all the crazy shit.

• 53:24Shaan Puri?

  And, uh, and so anyways, like when I was there, I had this feeling that I don't like, that I've thought I had slayed this feeling, but nope, it came back. And it was like, kind of like jealousy. It was like, I was, and the way I knew it was because I was like, kind of poo pooing like, oh, I don't need all this. I'm happy without all this. And I was kind of like, in my head, trying to like, almost say why I didn't want these things. Cause actually I felt bad that I didn't have all these things. Like this weird psychology thing, but the simple way of explaining it was like, I felt these like little hunger pangs of, of envy of like, oh, I want that. And I was like, oh, that's not a good feeling. And the shift I made was, uh, instead of feeling like, oh, You know, these are things that I don't have, but they have, right? Like it's nothing wrong with them, but just I don't have these things and other people have them.

• 54:10Shaan Puri?

  Instead, I looked at it differently. I was like, by the third day there, I was like, I gotta shift my mindset. I'm not trying to have this jealousy feeling in my day. It's not a cool feeling for me. So I was like, all right, what am I going to shift it to? And I said, oh, how about I look at this like, like I'm at, I'm getting a sample platter here. So these are things I can have. These are things I can have in the next few years. So you know, things go right in my business. I can afford all these things. So why don't I feel like what it feels like to wake up in a mansion like this? Why don't I feel like what it's like to, to have a basketball court and a batting cage, you know, built into the home? Why don't I feel what it's like to drive this car? And oh, now I'm all of a sudden feeling excited. Ooh, what do I get to try today? That's like, you know, I get to go try on something that I might have in the future.

• 54:51Sam Parr?

  Did you, did you drive his Ferrari?

• 54:53Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. So I get to test drive the stuff and feel like, like, you know, what does it feel like?

• 54:56Sam Parr?

  Did you like it?

• 54:57Shaan Puri?

  No, for me, cars are stressful. Uh, like I don't like fancy cars. They're very stressful to me. And they're kind of like uncomfortable. Like I don't really get off on it. There's probably like a version of a car that I like, but not the like supercars, basically. Supercars are not something I want. And so I got to figure out what do I not want? And then, ooh, actually this feels really good. It feels really good to have, you know, this home gym built into my home. So, okay, you know, why don't I do that? And you know, why don't I, why don't I go for that then? So I think that sampling is not only just an effective way to figure out what you want. It's also a cure for jealousy. Cause when you're in those situations where you're jealous, switch it to thinking of it like, I'm just getting to try before I buy, before I have all these things. I get to sample them and figure out what exact flavor of this I'm going to want.

• 55:40Shaan Puri?

  And then it becomes yours instead of feeling like it's theirs and you don't have it.

• 55:44Sam Parr?

  I have that feeling with, um, so we have this guy on the podcast a while ago. We should have him back on again. His name is Nick Bare, B A R E, Nick Bare. He runs, um, Bare Performance Nutrition or some B P N.

• 55:56Shaan Puri?

  And a big YouTube channel, right?

• 55:58Sam Parr?

  And a huge YouTube channel. This guy came out with us, he came out with this, his content production is so freaking good. So he's got this supplement business that does like 20 or 30 million in revenue, a lot. But when we had him on, it was like, Six million revenue or something like that. It wasn't like, it was good, but it wasn't significant. And he created this YouTube channel. He's like, good looking, like yoked, like he's a massive dude. But he, so he lifts weights and he's this muscle head, but he's really cool. And now he's into endurance sports. And so on his YouTube channel, which now, when we had him on, I think it had like 200,000 subscribers. Now it's getting close to a million, seven, eight hundred thousand. He did this thing. He's got this whole team behind his YouTube channel. He's got like three or four guys working full time on it.

• 56:43Sam Parr?

  He released a 45 minute documentary about him running the Leadville 100. The Leadville 100 is a hundred mile race through the mountains of Leadville, Colorado. And you basically, I, it looked like it was like laps or something of like 15 or 20 miles. And he had these guys at checkpoints to film him. And I was watching this guy. It was the most inspirational shit I've ever seen. I'm gonna go and buy like, I don't even know what Bear Nutrition sells. Cause whenever I buy weight protein, I just go to Whole Foods and I just buy like, you know, like, uh, or Amazon. I'm purposely gonna go out of my way to buy his stuff. Have you been paying attention to Nick Bear? I don't, he doesn't show up on my YouTube feed. I need to subscribe so it starts to show up on my feed. Dude, you gotta watch this guy. It is the cra- so he's ex-military. You're the only fitness influencer I watch.

• 57:28Sam Parr?

  We're, we could talk about that in a second, but he, this, he's inspired me to like, take it to the limit. He is so crazy. This guy is nuts. Like they, he has a video of him like deadlifting 550 pounds, which is a shit ton of weight. And then he goes and he runs a marathon in like two hours and 55 minutes, which is very, very fast. And he's the biggest guy doing it. It's very interesting. So I've been watching this guy and I had this like pretty big sense of jealousy where I'm like, I wanna be doing that. And, uh, so that's why I'm doing this little fitness influencer shit now. And it's kind of a joke, but not really a joke. And to be honest, it's so fun, dude. You totally have to do this. It 100% makes you accountable and makes you exercise harder.

• 58:10Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I love it. So I sampled your gym. So I went to your house, sampled your gym. I was like, wow, amazing. And then I called you the other day. I was like, yo, what are you using for the flooring? What are you doing for this? What are you doing for that? Give me the, give me the, the, the blueprint, because I'm turning my garage into your garage. I'm like, that is a great, that was such an amazing feeling to work out there. I want to have that feeling on a daily basis. So

• 58:31Sam Parr?

  Dude, it's way cheaper than you think.

• 58:32Shaan Puri?

  I know. I didn't even take, it's not even a lot of money, but it's more like, it's more of having the clear vision of what you want. And seeing yours was like, oh, now I know what I like. And I just have some additions, some modifications. I'm like, oh, my daughter who's two, she loves to come out when I'm working out and she loves to work out with me side by side, which is just like, she just wants to be to, she wants to do little things next to me. So we're creating a little workout playpen where she can go in there with little foam weights and do her thing while I'm doing mine. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna craft this lifestyle to be what I want. And, and so like, you know, that, there's something to this sampling. And I really encourage people to find a way to sample it. If you want to know what kind of home you want, go Airbnb something. Before I did this chef thing, I hired a chef for one meal to cook like a kind of a dinner for like, I had some friends in

• 59:17Shaan Puri?

  town. I was like, oh, let me hire somebody off Craigslist just to make one meal. Like, I don't want to deal, we can go out to eat, but wouldn't it be cool if a chef came to our house and did it? And like, the cost is about the same of, you know, taking my friends out to a restaurant. So let me just do that at home. And it was amazing. And so having that chef at the, at the home was like, a good way to test these things. And so that's my kind of challenge to anybody who has made it through this random episode, which is like, think about the shit that you have been telling yourself you want and figure out a way to go sample it. Like in the next week, go rent the car, go hang out at someone's house, go shadow a CEO, go, you know, hire the chef for the day, do, do like the sample of it and figure out, does it make you want it 10 times more or 10 times less? Because usually that's the reaction I have when I, when I feel it for the first time

• 1:00:02Shaan Puri?

  real, is I want it way more or way less.

• 1:00:06Sam Parr?

  I'm curious if people are gonna like this rambling. I like this stuff, but I don't know. I wonder what, what people will enjoy. Because I could talk about this shit all day. I like this, this fitness crap, this building the life that you want crap. I love this stuff.

• 1:00:19Shaan Puri?

  Ben, Ben, chime in here. What do you, what do you think, Ben?

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  I can only speak from like my perspective, which is I'm really into the Charter City stuff. So that like, I really liked that. And the prison stuff, I think is going to be interesting to anyone. So it worked for me. And Teddy Roosevelt, I mean, come on, you knew that would be up my alley.

• 1:00:42Sam Parr?

  Are you gonna do, dude, Teddy Roosevelt is the most prolific person I have ever read about. I've read hun- maybe over a hundred biographies. He is likely the most active person I have ever read. He has done so much amazing stuff. This guy's a freak. Teddy Roosevelt's a freak.

• 1:01:00Shaan Puri?

  Ben, where's, where is the how to take over the world episode on Teddy Roosevelt?

• 1:01:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, of, I would say of the people that, that people bring up that they want me to do, Teddy Roosevelt is probably number two. Genghis Khan is probably number one that people mention, and Teddy Roosevelt number two. So it'll, it'll

• 1:01:17Sam Parr?

  Roosevelt is like, he's different than Napoleon, like Napoleon did a lot, but Roosevelt is far more eclectic. He, like, before he was even in politics, when he was 21, he wrote a book on the Spanish-American War, and it was considered a textbook for decades. And then he wrote a couple more books. He became president, obviously, that's amazing. He was like this avid hunter and this zoologist, what is it when you collect animals and like, describe like the, where they come from and things like that, like Darwin shit. He did that type of crap before he was like in his 30s. Very prolific, very interesting person. You gotta read about Teddy Roosevelt. Very intriguing.

• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  What book are you reading?

• 1:01:56Sam Parr?

  The Rise of Teddy Roosevelt. I think there's like three of them.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  Cause I know, there's one that came out fairly recently, it's really popular now, about his trip to the Amazon later in life.

• 1:02:10Sam Parr?

  Yeah, and that was amazing. The guy was ridiculous. He also has this book that I'm thinking about reading. This title's beautiful. It's called A Strainuous Life. And so he had this phrase where he was like, so Roosevelt would like, even when he was president, every morning, he would box, like fight, box, like spar. He loved, and he was like, it's our, like, we have to live the strenuous life where we put in effort, physical effort, and we get hurt sometimes, and we struggle. He's like, we have to do that. Otherwise, you're never gonna feel like a man or, or a human being. And so I've been very inspired by Teddy Roosevelt. Very interesting person.

• 1:02:44Shaan Puri?

  That's funny. You know, I'm Ben, I'm listening to the Vladimir Putin episodes that you did on the, on how to take over the world. And I'm only, I'm on part one. And I love that he was like, the opposite of what you're describing. Because when Sam describes these people, it's like, holy shit, these are just like another species. It's like a guy who's done this, and this, and this, and this, all before the age of 30. And the best part about the Putin thing was you were like, up until 30, he basically had a very sort of like, average, average life. There's nothing remarkable that would tell you that this guy's about to become what Putin ended up becoming. There was like little hints, little signs, a couple moments. But, you know, by and large, it was like, you know, mediocre, mediocre student, you know, kind of like low level, low level, you know, spy, not, not, you know, put in this like,

• 1:03:29Shaan Puri?

  random, random office, not in the highest level. And then that was all until 30. And then I'm guessing, because I haven't listened to part two yet, but I'm guessing that, obviously, it's going to turn up, and he's going to end up, you know, becoming the leader, leader of the country. But it was so crazy to me that he was unremarkable, essentially, till 30. Was that surprising to you?

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the moment that you're talking about is like, he was kind of like a mid-level operative in St. Petersburg. And I think the guy that he worked for lost an election. So he's like, out of a job. And he was gonna go just like, start a judo gym in St. Petersburg, Russia.

• 1:04:03Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  Because he's like, pretty good.

• 1:04:04Shaan Puri?

  He sounded like, just like he's twice from the office. He's like in Scranton, he's just a mid-level, he's assistant to the regional manager. And then somehow becomes, you know, it's like if Dwight became Elon Musk, that's sort of like what happened with Putin. Mid-level officer to like, you know, president.

• 1:04:20Sam Parr?

  Do you think, Ben, that he is actually the richest person in the world?

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  Um, no, I don't, insofar as like, do I actually think he has, like, whatever, $100 billion in secret accounts? Probably not. But it's like, it kind of doesn't matter, because he has access to as much money as he wants, whenever he wants.

• 1:04:43Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:44Speaker 02

  So he probably just doesn't have to. He like, doesn't have to move all that money to his account. Does that make sense?

• 1:04:47Shaan Puri?

  He scares me, man.

• 1:04:48Sam Parr?

  So rich, he doesn't need it in his account. He freaks me out, man. Putin scares the shit out of me.

• 1:04:53Shaan Puri?

  Sam, have you listened to this episode, the Putin one?

• 1:04:55Sam Parr?

  No, I, dude, I, I, I fear him and so I've been nervous to listen to it.

• 1:05:00Shaan Puri?

  There, there's a line at the beginning that I love. There's like, it's like this little anecdote. It's like, he was kind of like, uh, not a great student in school. Um, and just like, wasn't very interested. He's like, he's, the teacher's like, he's smart, but he's not that interested in school. And so the teacher tells his dad, like, you know, he's not living up to, he's not living up to his potential. And the dad, like, as, just like, as a Russian dad would, is like, most, most Russian shit ever. He goes, so what? Do I kill him or what do I do?

• 1:05:29Sam Parr?

  No shit.

• 1:05:32Shaan Puri?

  So what should I do? Kill him? I was like, wow.

• 1:05:35Sam Parr?

  Oh my god.

• 1:05:36Shaan Puri?

  Most Russian thing ever.

• 1:05:38Sam Parr?

  Dude, he freaks me out, man. A, a lot of the Russians scare me. That's kind of like why I like Khabib in the UFC is because the Russians like freak me out. They,

• 1:05:45Shaan Puri?

  They're on another level.

• 1:05:47Sam Parr?

  They're on another level. There's levels to it.

• 1:05:49Shaan Puri?

  Let's just put it this way.

• 1:05:50Sam Parr?

  One level.

• 1:05:50Shaan Puri?

  Never seen a Russian doing a podcast. We're, Russians don't do podcasts, right? They live a harder life than us. They're doing more, more tough shit than, than sitting in front of a microphone.

• 1:06:01Sam Parr?

  Dude, I've never even seen a Russian smile.

• 1:06:04Sam Parr?

  Like they, like they don't, I think, I'm almost positive, they like, so smiling in Russia is weakness.

• 1:06:10Shaan Puri?

  If you saw a Russian and he winked at you, what would, what would happen to anybody?

• 1:06:14Sam Parr?

  There's this comedian who like, talks about like, he's like, you know, like, one time I was going to this bad neighborhood and, um, I was nervous and I, and he was, this guy's a white guy and I was nervous and I, and, and he goes, someone came up to me, talked to me and asked me like, a question that I thought that they're just like, trying to like, trick me into like, uh, you know, testing me to see where, you know, if they're gonna rob me or not. And he goes, immediately I just spoke in a Russian accent. And immediately they were afraid, afraid of me and walked away. And he's like, this is my defense mechanism. He just says, uh, dude, of course I know, like, are you in this like horrible Russian accent? Like, do I know where I am? Of course. Do you? Like, you're like, says this like scary thing to this guy and he like, walks away from him entirely. And that's the defense mechanism from now on. He's just speaking in a Russian accent.

• 1:06:56Shaan Puri?

  That's amazing. If I do that in an Indian accent, I just get beat up on the spot. So it doesn't work the same. All right, we should wrap it up.

• 1:07:02Speaker 02

  I was just, I was gonna say something. I was gonna stick up for the Russians a little bit. I visit Russia with, with my wife. She speaks a little bit of Russian. And my experience was like, they are very much like that. Like, they're kind of gruff and like a little scary, whatever. But there were a couple of times where like,

• 1:07:20Speaker 02

  like, my phone wasn't working and like, we needed to get to the train station in an hour or else like, we were gonna miss our flight and everything was gonna go wrong. And like, people were more willing to go out of their way and like, literally walk with us for like, five blocks, make sure we found the exact right spot than anywhere else I've ever been. So it's like, they have this very tough exterior, but once you get past it, they're like, very, very.

• 1:07:41Sam Parr?

  And obviously, we're joking. If you are Russian, we have love for you, but we're.

• 1:07:46Shaan Puri?

  I thought we were complimenting the whole time.

• 1:07:48Speaker 02

  Don't poison Sam. Don't tell Sam.

• 1:07:49Shaan Puri?

  I was saying how badass they are. Everything I said, I stand behind as a compliment. You know, even just the cities. Dude, St. Petersburg, do we have anything on the level of the word Moscow? St. Petersburg, these just sound tougher than American cities, right? Like.

• 1:08:04Sam Parr?

  Whenever I hear the word the Kremlin or Kremlin, I'm like, I freak out.

• 1:08:08Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. Kremlin?

• 1:08:10Sam Parr?

  Scary word.

• 1:08:11Shaan Puri?

  Bro, we have like Tampa Bay. This is not comparable what we have. You know, it's just, they're on another, another level of toughness.

• 1:08:20Shaan Puri?

  Like Denver, can you imagine? Just putting, just put Denver up against Moscow.

• 1:08:29Shaan Puri?

  America's just not where it's at. All right, I gotta go. Just before I get canceled for praising the Russians.