Ned Ryun on Who’s Planning to Sabotage Trump From Within, Is DOGE Too Ambitious, & the FBI’s Future

Ned Ryun on who’s planning to sabotage the Trump administration from within. (00:00) Three Things Trump Needs to Fix Before the Left Destroys Our Country (10:46) Will Tulsi Gabbard and Bobby Kennedy be Confirmed? (30:59) Trump’s Plan to Shatter the Deep State into a Million Pieces (39:10) Will DOGE Succeed? (48:50) The Reality of Watergate (01:01:30) Pardoning the J6 Defendants Paid partnerships with: ExpressVPN: Get 3 months free at https://ExpressVPN.com/Tucker Hallow prayer app: Get 3 months free at https://Hallow.com/Tucker Cozy Earth: Promo code “Tucker” for up to 40% off at https://CozyEarth.com/Tucker PureTalk: Get 50% off first month at https://PureTalk.com/Tucker Ned Ryun is founder and CEO of American Majority. He’s also the author of American Leviathan: The Birth of the Administrative State and Progressive Authoritarianism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Host Thanksgiving with industry-leading quality standards from Whole Foods Market. There are no antibiotics in their meat department, ever. So carve up turkey and spiral cut ham with peace of mind. Shop organic sides like stuffing mix and cranberry sauce from 365 brand. And guess what? All their delectable pies are made with no high fructose corn syrup. Gourmet Thanksgiving flavors with the quality you want, only at Whole Foods Market.

• 0:29Tucker Carlson?

  Is this some of your new stuff? Oh, it's so good. Do you use nicotine products? This is totally. This is Alp. This is life of. I'm not bragging, but I feel great at 55. I'll just say, I'll just say that. Okay, sorry. You ready?

• 0:54Tucker Carlson?

  Welcome to the Tucker Carlson Show. We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else. And they're not censored, of course, because we're not gatekeepers. We are honest brokers here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly. Check out all of our content at TuckerCarlson.com. Here's the episode. Okay, so there are so many unfolding stories swirling around that give the attentive person anxiety. Anyone who's paying very close attention to what's happening in the world right now is anxious about it. I will say that. But there is also a lot to look forward to and a lot to be comforted by.

• 1:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:32Tucker Carlson?

  And I just want to go through with you, if we could, since you were right in the middle of this election.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:37Tucker Carlson?

  Working on behalf, outside the campaign button.

• 1:40Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:40Tucker Carlson?

  On behalf.

• 1:41Speaker 02

  Very hard project.

• 1:41Tucker Carlson?

  Of reform and on behalf of the country, really. You know, the answers to this question. What are the things that you're looking forward to over the next four years?

• 1:55Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, stop to the madness. I mean, there was no way we were going to last another four years with the insanity that was going on. So we can put a stop to that at least for the moment. I think the most, one of the most exciting things to me is-

• 2:07Tucker Carlson?

  But can we just pause for one second? I think that's not an overstatement.

• 2:11Speaker 02

  It's not. I mean, if that's all, I'm gonna be disappointed if that's all we get. But if that's all we get, that's a serious step in the right direction.

• 2:18Tucker Carlson?

  So just name, name three trends that are, well, I guess, when still president, um, that were, have been in progress the last four years that we could not sustain for another four years.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Well, I start with immigration.

• 2:29Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  I mean, this is insane. I mean, we're seeing, what we've seen over the last four years, not only the wide open borders, we don't even really know who's come in. Now, we know there's tens of millions of illegals that have come in, millions of getaways. I still, I still don't understand why we haven't had a deeper conversation about the tens of thousands of Chinese national males that have come in over the southern border. Like, what the hell is going on with that? Uh, whoever else has come in. Uh, at the same time, conversation about the fact that for four years, they've been importing new voters. I, I, I would hope that every Republican, regardless of where they are on the spectrum, because again, we know that not all Republicans are created equal, that even the Chamber of Commerce Republicans understand over the next four years, for their own self-preservation,

• 3:14Speaker 02

  they should be wholeheartedly behind Donald Trump's deportation efforts. We start with the hard criminals, we start with those illegals that have criminal records, and we keep right on going. And deporting all of the new Democratic voters that they've imported over the last four years, for the sake of self-preservation. If you want to have a two-party system instead of a single-party state, the immigration has to be fixed. And I would argue, to the point of, if we do not have, if, if Donald Trump does not unleash Tom Homan and Stephen Miller to go all the way to actually deport everybody that is needed to be deported, to fix the southern border, it calls into question who we are as a country.

• 3:54Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 3:55Speaker 02

  I mean, this to me is one of the things that, again, if you don't have a border, you don't have sovereignty, you don't have citizens. What does that actually mean to be a country? What does it mean to be a citizen? What does it mean to be America? What does it mean to be an American citizen? What does it mean to have a constitution? We're very unique people, we have a very unique way of life. And with everything that has been taking place in regards to immigration, if it was to have continued for another four years, again, I think all bets are off on who we are as a people, who we are as a country, moving forward.

• 4:21Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, we're done.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  So immigration, first thing.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  Foreign policy? I mean, that to me, what are we even doing on a whole host of fronts in regards to Ukraine? That that whole mess is still going where we're still apparently sending billions of dollars over to Ukraine before they, you know, shut the lights out on the Biden White House. But but the the foreign policy, again, getting us to point and also the weakness that we have demonstrated on the international stage for the last four years. At a certain point, that was going to cause even more serious implications if there was another four years of that. And and I don't know where it would have ended. Obviously, Donald Trump showing up.

• 4:56Tucker Carlson?

  This week, I mean, as if he hasn't started enough wars. Um, I mean, they started all kinds of wars. If people aren't, I mean, we're in battle with the Houthis right now.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 5:06Tucker Carlson?

  Uh, but Biden just announced that in the final couple of weeks of his administration, he's going to start a war with Iran.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  With with Lindsey Graham's full support. Um, that that this this to me is at some point, at some point, I hope that we can restructure the Republican Party in the primaries of 2026. That's another topic that would love to discuss with you. But, yeah, at some point, Donald Trump won on an America First message.

• 5:35Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  It'd be really nice if the rest of the Republicans fell in line with that and understanding that the people voted for change and the change is what they want with America First. And that includes Donald Trump's approach on foreign policy. That does not include more shooting wars with Iran and others across the globe. At the same time, there is a certain approach that I think Donald Trump brings to foreign policy that brought us peace.

• 5:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  I mean, four years of no new wars, peace. He he has the ability to do that, and it does not involve starting new wars or foreign intervention. So I would say that's one of the other topics. One of the other issues that I think has been a blessing for us with with Trump winning.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  The economy, I mean, can you imagine if we had another four years of this economy, where we'd be? When they tell us, they gaslight us and tell us the economy's fine, inflation, all these things are figments of your imagination, everybody's doing just fine. And you look at, and that's what I do with American Majority, I work with the grassroots, I'm out there with everyday people, it is not fine. And I couldn't imagine another four years of them being devastated economically, where we would be. So, those three things, immigration, foreign policy, economy, inflation.

• 6:48Tucker Carlson?

  I know personally, someone I'm close to the other day just told me, a middle-class person, solid, you know, probably makes higher than, I mean, I don't know, probably makes 160 a year if I had to guess.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Which used to be considered pretty solid.

• 7:06Tucker Carlson?

  Pretty darn good.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  Solid.

• 7:08Tucker Carlson?

  I was shocked when I made a hundred grand a year.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:10Tucker Carlson?

  When I was in my 30s, but anyway.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:12Tucker Carlson?

  Worried about food prices.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Yes. No, I know. It's kind of shocking when you realize that people that are making what would be considered, used to be considered pretty good salary.

• 7:22Tucker Carlson?

  Kind of rich, yeah.

• 7:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're feeling a little pinched here.

• 7:24Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. Okay, so, sorry, I just wanted to, I, because I think it's just a, you know, stopping the destruction or slowing it down is itself a win, as you noted.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 7:36Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  But then the next step becomes, listen, Donald Trump to me, listen, nobody's perfect, like, we all have many imperfections and nobody's a perfect person, but I think Donald Trump's a man for the, man for the hour. He has shown and demonstrated political courage. I, I can't, I cannot even begin to imagine the last four years of the political, the lawfare that has been put on him, used against him, the incredible pressure to try and destroy him. And I've told people this, and I'll say it here, Donald Trump knew what he was going up against. He didn't run away from it, he ran at it. That, to me, is one of the most amazing parts of this story. In some ways, I, I think back to the story of David and Goliath, and this is one of my

• 8:21Speaker 02

  favorite stories out of, out of scripture. If you go back and look at it, David didn't run away, he didn't kind of slowly approach Goliath, he ran at him.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  And that kind of to me is Donald Trump knows exactly what he's up against. He's up against very powerful forces. I mean, as much as we despise the administrative state and the deep state and the corporate propaganda and all these things, these are very powerful forces and they can do a lot of damage to your life. He didn't have to do this. He could have been enjoying a very good life somewhere else in the world, playing golf for the rest of his life, every day in the lovely spot in the world. He ran at them and he took incredible pressure, incredible body blows, kept running at them and in many ways triumphed over these people that were trying to destroy him. And now he is back in a position of power to be able to implement, I think, a vision for this country that will begin a restoration.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  This is, I don't consider myself a conservative necessarily because what are we actually conserving? This to me is one of my great frustrations with the conservative movement writ large. Explain to me again what we've actually been conserving over the last 40, 50, 60 years.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  I'm more interested, and it's very, it's a very reactive term to conservative. I'm far more interested in restoration, in being a restorationist, in restoring the republic, in restoring a constitutional republic, in restoring a government of, by, and for the people that actually promotes the interests of the American people, which is kind of the premise of the American republic, right? All power flows from the American people, from the people to their duly elected representatives, who they make the stewards of the power and money given to them, to put together a government that actually promotes and protects the interests of the American people every day on every issue. And we've kind of lost sight of that. And Donald Trump's, the great temerity of Donald Trump back in 2016 was that he kind of showed up and said, hey, I think government of, by, and for the people should actually

• 10:13Speaker 02

  promote the American people and their interests. And that's why I think he was considered such a great threat by permanent DC, the administrative state, whatever you want, however you wanted to find it. This to me is a moment in time where we have a shot, where we have an actual shot of restoring the republic, of restoring a government of and of, for, and by the people, to the people, to promote the people, to protect their interests. That to me is one of the most interesting things over the next four years, but it's going to require someone like Donald Trump with this political courage, instilling into others political courage to actually do the right things. I'm a little nervous about Mike Johnson as speaker. I have my doubts about John Thune. But I think if he can actually instill the political courage necessary into Republicans

• 10:58Speaker 02

  on the Hill, but also into his various nominees, who I think will actually have what it takes to do what they should be doing in the various departments and agencies, we could be in for a singular moment in American history in which we look back and go, this was the turning point where we actually began to restore the republic.

• 11:16Tucker Carlson?

  So many threads, but before we get to, no, no, I, I, I think it's a great overview. Will all of Donald Trump's nominees be confirmed by the Republican Senate?

• 11:31Speaker 02

  I feel pretty good about a lot of them. I, I would not be surprised if Pete Hegseth gets 52. We'll see.

• 11:38Tucker Carlson?

  It feels that way.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, it feels like he's gonna get.

• 11:40Tucker Carlson?

  I'll be a lot more specific. They don't like Tulsi Gabbard.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  They don't like Tulsi. I think RFK's got some problems.

• 11:48Tucker Carlson?

  But you.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  I feel good. I feel good about Pete. I feel good about Russ Vought. I think Russ is gonna be one of the more.

• 11:52Tucker Carlson?

  Russ is great.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  It's gonna be one of the most important. Nobody really talks about OMB outside of DC. I'm telling you, one of the most important vehicles that Donald Trump will be able to use to deconstruct and dismantle the administrative state is OMB. And you gotta have somebody like Russ Vought. Ed Martin's gonna be the chief of staff. Bishop as his, as his deputy. And then I'm hoping he gets Eric Yuland in as deputy director of management. That's a rock star team at OMB. Marty McCary, FDA.

• 12:18Tucker Carlson?

  Amazing.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, that'd be huge. Paul Atkins at SEC, I think feel, I feel good about that. So I think a lot of these people are gonna.

• 12:25Tucker Carlson?

  But you can't.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  I think he's gonna get overwhelming number of them through without too many problems. I think Tulsi and RFK are gonna be question marks, if I'm being honest.

• 12:36Tucker Carlson?

  I don't think you can tolerate that.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  I don't either.

• 12:38Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, because it's one thing to get like, and I don't wanna, you know, I don't wanna attack anybody. This hasn't even started. But you know, there are some nominees who are just like, whatever. They're like everyone. They don't have views that are consistent with what Trump ran on. That's a fact. And so if the Republican Congress rubber stamps their buddies. Whatever.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:57Tucker Carlson?

  But I'm sorry, they're not in charge of the Republican Party. They're a lot less popular than Donald Trump. And I don't understand if you're, you know, Bobby Kennedy's point is like really important. He's not a perfect person, but we have a system that is killing people. And he's a step in the right direction. Same with Tulsi.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:13Tucker Carlson?

  She's not a perfect person, no one is, but our foreign policy is insane and is hurting the United States.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  It is.

• 13:18Tucker Carlson?

  So like, why wouldn't the White House call over to Republican senators and say, you get in our way, we're going to crush you. How's that sound? I mean it.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  No, I've proposed this to certain people behind the scenes.

• 13:29Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, like, let's go.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  So.

• 13:31Tucker Carlson?

  We're not going to put up with that.

• 13:32Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, the agent of change. People voted for Donald Trump.

• 13:35Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  I mean, this was a very clear election. You get choice A, choice B, very different approaches to government and to the future. There's, there was no real illusion about, like, there's no confusion about what people were voting for, and they voted definitively for Donald Trump. You know, first, first Republican to win the popular vote since 2004. First Republican to win 311 electoral votes since 1988. First non-consecutive president since Grover Cleveland. I mean, this is a historical election. He wins. Agent of change. Agent of change gets his change agents in the various departments and agencies.

• 14:09Tucker Carlson?

  Well, yeah.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  And the Senate gets to advise and consent. They don't get to say, no, we want our buddy, or we don't like this person, so we're not going to give you this person. Donald Trump won. Donald Trump won, and also, by the way, I would make the argument, helped get them the Senate and the House. So you have majorities because of Donald Trump. Donald Trump won. Donald Trump would like these people to actually be in these departments and agencies. And unless they're a criminal, or unless there's some, you know, terrible thing in their past that is disqualifying, you get to confirm them. End of story.

• 14:43Tucker Carlson?

  Well, let's be honest, Tulsi Gabbard and Bobby Kennedy are opposed by lobbyists. That's what opposes them.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:50Tucker Carlson?

  Bobby Kennedy is opposed by pharma and ag lobbyists. Tulsi Gabbard is opposed by lobbyists acting on behalf of foreign countries. That's a fact.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:58Tucker Carlson?

  So there is no reason that lobbyists should take precedent over the population of the United States. And so why wouldn't you say to a cop?

• 15:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, but then you're acting so, but DC. You've been in DC. I've been around 25 years.

• 15:13Tucker Carlson?

  But where's the cleansing sort of justice where you call up certain senators? I'm not going to name names.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  You should.

• 15:18Tucker Carlson?

  And say, not only will we primary you and make certain you lose your senate seat. We'll make certain you don't get a job after you leave the senate. And then we're going to unleash some of the toughest people in the Republican Party. Take a really close look at you.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  So I proposed to-

• 15:30Tucker Carlson?

  We're going to do to you what you plan to do to our nominees.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  I have proposed to some people behind the scenes that Donald Trump should have a very honest conversation with some of these senators.

• 15:38Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  You have friends and family and associates that would like to be involved in this administration. Some of you have primaries in 2026. Let me be very clear here. If you oppose or vote against any of my nominees, I will find primary opponents for you in 26. Also, none of your family or friends or associates will ever find a job inside of this administration. I will become one of your worst enemies.

• 16:01Tucker Carlson?

  But also, if you're going to attack the, if you're going to sit back and allow people to call Bobby Kennedy a nutcase.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 16:07Tucker Carlson?

  And Tulsi Gabbard, an agent of a foreign power. Really? I mean, I'm thinking of one senator in particular from the Northeast. You know, whatever, without even getting in. These are people who are vulnerable.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:22Tucker Carlson?

  Really, we're going to look into Bobby Kennedy's behavior? Well, how about we look into yours?

• 16:26Speaker 02

  I think they're using-

• 16:27Tucker Carlson?

  Like, let's not play. I'm sick of this.

• 16:28Speaker 02

  I know. I think they're trying the carrot approach right now. And I'm-

• 16:31Tucker Carlson?

  Well, we need to find a sort of justice at a certain-

• 16:34Speaker 02

  I'm usually the stick approach first.

• 16:35Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  So I'd really like the big stick to come out. Let's see how these hearings begin in really just a couple of days. How they start to play out. But I think there needs to be a conversation behind the scenes of, you know, we'd love for you to do the right thing. And if you don't, there are going to be serious consequences. Because most of these elected officials, this is one thing that I've noticed about DC having been there for way too long. They are experts in self-preservation.

• 17:01Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 17:02Speaker 02

  They want to come back. Right, they want to come back in two years as a member of the House. They want to come back in six years as a member of the Senate. Let's have a little chit-chat about what your political future looks like if you don't want to actually give me my nominees.

• 17:17Tucker Carlson?

  Well, especially on the basis of no good reason. On the basis of like the most corrupt motives. Pressure from lobbyists to oppose, and I just want to be clear. It's Bobby Kennedy and Tulsi Gabbard we're talking about. I think you're absolutely right. And they're going to impugn their characters.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  This is, this is how DC has operated for way too long.

• 17:34Tucker Carlson?

  Tulsi Gabbard has never had a sip of alcohol in her life. You know, they're gonna call her a bad person, really?

• 17:40Speaker 02

  The, the corporation, the corporate lobbyists and all of these various interests have way too much say in how a Senator actually, or Congressman actually operates instead of the people that actually voted them into office. And you and I both know this because the lobbyists are in there every day, pressuring, making sure there's a lot of money coming in for the reelection campaign so they can get reelected, the idea of self-preservation. It's, it's a pretty, I mean, there's, there's a whole host of things wrong with our system today. But this is one of them. What, what, the, the bell that rings that they respond to is not the right bell.

• 18:13Tucker Carlson?

  It's been over a decade since Edward Snowden, who is a hero, exposed the US government for spying on its citizens. He didn't commit the crime they did, but he of course was punished. Now, you would think that the information that he brought to the public would cause permanent Washington to pause, reflect, apologize for violating the Constitution to the United States, the privacy and the rights of American citizens. But that's not what happened. No, Ed Snowden is still in exile. And in fact, just this year, the House of Representatives extended the rights of government agencies to spy on you. This is happening in public. It's infuriating to watch. American citizens have lost, as of today, the battle with their government to have privacy and freedom. You're being watched. So what can you do? Congress is not gonna help you.

• 18:59Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you can actually do something. You can use ExpressVPN. ExpressVPN returns privacy to your life. It's an app that reroutes 100% of what you do online through encrypted channels. That means nobody can see what you do online. So if you want to protect yourself from corporate and government spying, and we do, go to expressvpn.com/tucker. And if you do that, you get an extra three free months of privacy. That's expressvpn.com/tucker, and you get an extra three months free. It's worth it. Privacy always is.

• 19:34Speaker 03

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• 20:35Speaker 00

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• 21:17Tucker Carlson?

  So JD Vance said something I thought so, I've never have forgotten it during the election. And he said, "The Republican Party needs to be like a legit opposition party and needs to oppose the other side. Like, we need two parties, okay? We need to be in balance." And one of the things that the other side does, and this is the key to Pelosi, you know, Pelosi's like kind of an idiot, but she's really tough.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:38Tucker Carlson?

  Like, actually tough. And she's said people down and just have, you know, daughter of a mafia mayor, like she knows how to do this, from Baltimore.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 21:45Tucker Carlson?

  And just like, "Let's be clear about what's gonna happen if you do that." And I don't, I don't know a single person in the Republican Party who will do that.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  No. This is what concerns me a little bit about the current Republican leadership in both the House and the Senate of, I wouldn't mind, politically speaking, I want to make that very clear, politically speaking, it's okay to break a few legs and just say, "This is the reality, what's gonna happen."

• 22:08Tucker Carlson?

  There are a lot of moist handshakes in the Republican leadership.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  So this is, this is a bigger frustration with the Republican Party. People give you power, political power, to use the political power to enact change. I think too many Republicans have come to DC and are like, "Isn't this a lovely experience? It's gonna be a great career." We have a lot of careerists who are enjoying the fun career in DC. And Democrats are like, "By God, we have political power. We're going to break you to achieve what we want to achieve to fundamentally change and transform this country." They're religious zealots. And we're all sitting here going, "Oh, that's kinda mean. We probably shouldn't do that." If you have been given political power, you should freaking use the political power given to you by the American people. Or they might start to question, "Why did we give you political power in the first place? Because you don't know how to use it."

• 22:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. So I've watched this like for decades and it's driving me slowly, it's slowly driving me crazy. But why isn't there like an outside group, like a Super 501(c)(3) of some sort, or (c)(4) I guess, to, to do this? To say?

• 23:11Speaker 02

  This has been one of my arguments.

• 23:12Tucker Carlson?

  MoveOn.org is like, "We're gonna extract a cost if you don't serve your voters." It's super simple. You got elected on a program, you've ignored the program, and the people who voted for the program in favor of lobbyists. You can't do that anymore. It's gonna hurt you.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  You know the RNC is never going to be that. Even though you would like the RNC.

• 23:32Tucker Carlson?

  Well, RNC is gone. It doesn't even exist anymore. It's you and Charlie Kirk, or have replaced it. So I get it.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  We need a significant, and it's not minor, it's not tens of millions, right? You're talking with hundreds of millions every election cycle to have a proper enforcement mechanism of, you said you were going to do this, this is what the people voted for. If you do not toe the line on this, we will find a competent, credible, primary candidate for you, and he or she will be well-funded and we will crush you. That doesn't exist right now.

• 24:03Tucker Carlson?

  Well, and it's not just that. I mean, I look at people, including some in leadership, who clearly have had a hard conversation with someone who's like, we've got your online porn records, or we know who your boyfriend is, or, you know, you got wasted on a KODL to Croatia and acted like a pig, and we know that. I mean, clearly, these are people who are being blackmailed. Like, I can think of one in particular who's clearly being blackmailed. And I'm against blackmail, but I'm also in favor of serving your constituents, of restoring democracy to the United States. People vote for something, they should get it, and they're not getting it, and they never get it, and I'm just...

• 24:38Speaker 02

  The republic is in the balance.

• 24:39Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  And I would make the argument, and one of the arguments I make in American Leviathan is, we're not really a constitutional republic anymore.

• 24:45Tucker Carlson?

  Do you, you think?

• 24:46Speaker 02

  We got a shot at restoring it. The republic is at stake, freedom is at stake, liberty is at stake, the future of your kids, your grandkids, future generations is at stake. We are in a cold political war, we have been in a cold political war for decades with the un-American left. At some point, are you going to figure out the reality of what time it is, Republicans in DC, before it's too late? And if you understand where we're at in our nation's history, and the singular moment that we have, and what is at stake, I would hope they would find it somewhere within themselves to go to the mats and to fight with everything they have for their future, for their children's future, for their grandchildren's future, and understand, it might make you feel a little

• 25:31Speaker 02

  queasy in the moment, like, this is really hardcore, we're using some pretty brutal tactics. Freedom, future of the country, there are a lot of things at stake, and not only for this country. For the world. I mean, think about who we are for the rest of the world. The United States. We are beacon of hope. We are really the world's last great hope. We are, if we fall, there's nobody coming for us.

• 25:54Tucker Carlson?

  That's for sure.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  There's absolutely no one that will come and save America.

• 25:59Tucker Carlson?

  We are the hope of the world.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  We're the hope of the world.

• 26:01Tucker Carlson?

  Even as we decline, we're even more important, I think, as the last free place.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  We have to think of the stakes not only for our country, but for the world as well.

• 26:08Tucker Carlson?

  I agree.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Dear God, find a backbone and understand we're, if it's street-style brawling tactics that are necessary to win, I think it's justified in doing that because, for God's sake, they just tried to abuse our entire legal system and justice system to take out Donald Trump, quite frankly, others as well. Honestly, if they had won, I think they would have gone after some of us that are not in DC, but are considered somewhat prominent in the conservative movement. No, I told people, I told my staff, and I told others that I was working with this last year in a pretty significant project, there is a sense of urgency coming from me specifically, and there should be urgency from other leaders of organizations because if they win again,

• 26:54Speaker 02

  the next people that are going to show trial and lawfare are us. So we better freaking win, and if we don't win, we've got problems.

• 27:03Tucker Carlson?

  I don't think that's crazy at all.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  No, I don't. And I think we actually have to have that conversation about where these people on the left are. They're deeply un-American. They are antithetical to freedom. They're antithetical to liberty. If they had the political power to do whatever they wanted to us, I think they would. I don't think I'm overstating that at all. And so people have asked, how do you think we get back to normal with this un-American left in this country? And my argument to them has been we beat them into political submission and send them into the political wilderness for generations. That's the only way you get back to normal. But you have to frame the entire, you have to build the entire conservative movement around political power with the right people achieving political power, maintaining political

• 27:50Speaker 02

  power, and keeping it for long enough that you can actually achieve all the reform while putting them into the political wilderness. And I don't think we're actually organized or structured that way at all right now.

• 28:02Tucker Carlson?

  Um, I do think a lot of meaningful reform will come from outside the party.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:09Tucker Carlson?

  As it has on the left. They've been really effective and thoughtful in building up outside organizations that fund their party and keep it, you know, aligned, keep it on the track that they think it should be on. Of course, I find, you know, I find their goals repugnant, but I think they've been very clever.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  I'm a great admirer of the left in regards to achieving political power and how they structure themselves and their, how they have structured themselves to achieve political power for all the wrong reasons. All their policy ideas are terrible for this country, but they have, they have structured themselves to achieve that. And in fact, I can, based off all the numbers and statistics I've seen, the left is in the minority in this country, and yet they have an undue influence in politics and the various institutions because they have structured themselves to achieve power in the institutions and politically how they've invested their time and money into doing that. We, on the other hand, I mean, I know some people love a good white paper and like some of the things that the think tanks do. We are not structured correctly to achieve and maintain political power. And

• 29:14Speaker 02

  I think that's one of the things that I hope that I can achieve over the next four, five, six, seven, eight years, whatever, however long it takes, for people to understand if we do the right things in the field, in the various states, we can achieve and maintain political power for years to come, but you actually have to be doing the right things.

• 29:34Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, and have the right, the right goals. I mean, power is never an end in itself. It's, you know, it's harnessed in service of

• 29:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 29:42Tucker Carlson?

  fighting corruption and improving the lives of the people who live here.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  And restoring a representative democracy.

• 29:48Tucker Carlson?

  So with the caveat that in the end, all politics is disappointing because the point of life is not power of politics. It's, you know, it's God, in my

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is.

• 29:58Tucker Carlson?

  You're always gonna be disappointed, the closer you get to the political process, the more horrified you're gonna be that you grew up around it. I should say, I mean, your father was-

• 30:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was in the house for 10 years.

• 30:07Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, famous congressman. So you know the system better than anybody. And I think people who don't know it, once they get a glimpse of it, they're like, oh, that's repulsive. I want to go back home. So like, it's just inherently disappointing.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  It's where ignorance's bliss comes in handy.

• 30:20Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, sure. But it doesn't mean that one outcome is not better than the other. One outcome is better than the other. So with that in mind, now that we've lowered the bar a little bit, let's just start. What are you excited about? What can this administration achieve in the next couple of years?

• 30:41Speaker 02

  What can they achieve? What will they achieve? What I hope they will achieve?

• 30:46Speaker 02

  I want Donald Trump. I'm not interested in trimming this government. I'm not interested in making it more efficient. I'm interested in shattering this administrative state into a million pieces.

• 30:56Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  I think Donald Trump has figured out who the enemy is over the last, call it nine years, in which I think he truly showed up in DC, January of 2017, as the duly-elected representative, president of the American people, shows up in DC and goes, I'm the duly-elected president, I get to decide a lot of the foreign and domestic policy, and ran into a system of government that said, yeah, we don't think so. We think we decide. And I think it was a startling, it was a startling moment for him when he realized, I thought we were a constitutional republic, representative democracy, and then folks in DC were like, no, we're not really that. We're an administrative state. The unelected bureaucrats and their allies, we're the ones that actually decide these things. A lot of these things were settled years ago. Foreign policy, for example.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  This is the crazy part to me. Donald Trump's, one of his great sins, was showing up and thinking, I want an election. People voted for change. One of them was different approach in foreign policy. So we're gonna actually enact that. Like, no, we already settled that years ago. You don't get to decide that at all. It's already been decided by the smart people at the State Department, by like Victoria Nuland. And I think that for him was a moment where he realized we have a real problem. And then, of course, he became a target of his own government, the DOJ and the FBI and all these people trying to take out the duly elected President of the United States with fake FISA warrants and fake dossiers and all this stuff. And he realized we have a serious problem here.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  So, leading up to now, and then the four years of lawfare, in which, on the most spurious of charges, they literally, I don't know the exact figure, but I have to guess it was hundreds of millions they soaked out of his campaign in regards to legal fees, and not only like trying to destroy him as a person, but also just suck cash out of him. I think he's coming back this month and being sworn in for another term and fully understanding we have a form of government that is running this country that has nothing to do with a constitutional republic. So I hope, I sincerely hope, that he understands who the enemy is, that he has to go at them. They've already declared war on him. This is not about him declaring war on the administrative state.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  They declared war on him years ago. And it's him responding in kind and going, "We are not going to take this sitting down." And I hope on day one, I've got a, I've got a few thoughts on this, I'm glad you asked, that he would go out and fire hundreds of thousands of federal employees, day one, GS12s, GS13s, just pick out random names, fire them. Federal employee unions are gonna sue back, stays, they're gonna go back and forth through the courts to get to the Supreme Court, probably 18 months, two years, to ask a fundamental question. Does the head of the executive branch, the duly elected President of the United States,

• 33:49Speaker 02

  the Article II branch head, get to hire and fire whoever he wants to inside of this branch? Is the question, is it yes or no? And I would hope this Supreme Court says yes. And at that point, Donald Trump becomes the demolition man for the administrative state, because that's where most of the administrative state resides, is inside the Article II branch, the executive branch of our government. Donald Trump goes for broke and he starts firing people. My hope is that he's also told some of these new nominees that are gonna be secretaries, "You're going to go in and on day one announce..." I'm Lyndon McMahon. I'm the new Secretary of Education. I'm going to be the last Secretary of Education because by the time I'm done here, we are going to shut down this department.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  And then on top of that, we're going to not only shut down this building, we're going to implode it, we're going to raise it to the ground, and we're going to build freedom parks over this. I mean, that's that. That is the approach that has to be taken by Trump day one of going right at the administrative state. I'm not interested in making it more efficient. I'm not interested in cutting regulations. I'm not interested in cutting spending. Those are all in effect. The cause is the state. You have to shatter it into a million pieces. So that's, that's my biggest hope. And I think he actually has the moral and political courage to actually do that. My hope and prayer, quite frankly, is that all of his, if his various nominees have the exact same political and moral courage

• 35:14Speaker 02

  to do the same thing, because that is the issue. I'm telling you, Tucker, every issue that we are experiencing today in this country, in DC specifically, but in some ways in other aspects of the country, comes from a deeply unconstitutional administrative state that I think has nothing to do with advancing and promoting the interests of the American people. That's the fight. That is the issue. That is the thing.

• 35:39Tucker Carlson?

  It's a, it's a big ask.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  It is.

• 35:41Tucker Carlson?

  A cabinet secretary, because in cutting your staff, you cut your power.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's my concern.

• 35:47Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  Capture.

• 35:49Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  No, my concern is that these secretaries, these new nominees who are going to be confirmed, a secretary is going to walk in and go, oh, my gosh, I'm Secretary of this department. Isn't this wonderful? And then how can I be as effective as possible as the new Secretary of this various department and all the power that I have to actually enact change? No, no, the whole point is for you to make this thing go away, to make it end, to make it cease to exist. I have questions about some of them.

• 36:16Tucker Carlson?

  Um, Doge. Uh, not part, these are not federal employees.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:23Tucker Carlson?

  Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, they're not going to become federal employees, but they're going to oversee what they're saying is the most transformative effort ever to shrink government, to do to the federal government what Elon did to Twitter.

• 36:38Speaker 02

  I hope so.

• 36:40Tucker Carlson?

  How will that work?

• 36:42Speaker 02

  I think they're going to run most of it through OMB.

• 36:44Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 36:44Speaker 02

  Right. They're going to run it through Ross and his team and advise strategies, you know, plans.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  I'll be completely honest, when they say we're gonna declare victory and say we're done in 18 months and July 4th of 2026, that's insane.

• 37:03Tucker Carlson?

  Good to have a deadline, though.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  It's nice to have a deadline. It's also an insane one.

• 37:07Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 37:08Speaker 02

  The administrative state started 112 years ago. It has been building. It has got so many reinforcing loops inside of this massive Leviathan. You're not going to absolutely just... First of all, I don't think you can get the fundamental question answered about does the head of the executive branch get to hire and fire whoever he wants to in 18 months? I think it'll probably be two years. I've actually talked with Sean Davis, who's a good buddy. He's like, "Dude, I think you're lucky if it's answered in two years." I think there's some fundamental questions and things that have to be answered and done that are going to take some time. I don't think you can declare victory in 18 months. This has been 100, 100-plus years in the making, and there are so many people with so many vested interests in the status quo. Various people in government, outside of government, the

• 37:51Speaker 02

  entire system, they're going to fight tooth and nail to make sure that this system of government does not go away. So you're gonna be up again. I think we're gonna be involved. If Donald Trump goes down the path of "I'm going to destroy the administrative state", it could be that the previous nine years of the craziness that we have seen as a warm-up act for maybe one of the coldest political wars we'll see in DC ever. Because of what's at stake. I mean, you're talking about regime change politics here, where, I mean, two very different governing philosophies of how you approach government on a whole host of fronts, from basic human rights to how government actually operates. And there are a lot of people with vested interests in maintaining the status quo of the administrative

• 38:33Speaker 02

  state, and they're gonna fight tooth and nail to make sure that it doesn't go away. So I think, in some ways, I love the fact that he has put brilliant minds like Elon and Vivek to do this with an outsider's approach.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  I just don't think it's going to happen. I don't think meaningful, fundamental change that is long-term and lasting is going to take place in 18 months. And I'm being realistic, having been in DC for 25 years.

• 39:01Tucker Carlson?

  Well, 2024 was a wild year. Who knows what 2025 will bring? But one thing a lot of people have realized is that, remember thoughts and prayers? People made fun of that? No one makes fun of that anymore. Prayer actually works. It's just a fact. Every society has recognized that from the beginning of time until recently, and people are starting to realize, oh, wait, prayer is essential every day. So if you want to start something new that's good for your soul, easy to maintain, and will last for the rest of your life, check out Hallow. It is the world's number one prayer app. I heard about it from my wife, not just once, but every night at dinner for the past six months. She loves it because it's easy to use and it is life-changing.

• 39:42Tucker Carlson?

  It builds a daily habit of prayer and allows you, bit by bit, to grow closer to God every day of 2025. There are over 10,000 guided prayers and meditations on Hallow. You can check out the daily scripture readings, nightly sleep prayers, and a daily minute if you're short on time. There is all kinds of stuff on Hallow, all designed to get you to grow closer to God. So start the year off right by putting your relationship with God first and pray with the help of Hallow. You get three free months of Hallow when you sign up at hallow.com/tucker. That's hallow.com/tucker. That is sincerely endorsed from personal experience. So most people don't wake up in the morning and decide to feel horrible, exhausted, foggy,

• 40:27Tucker Carlson?

  disconnected from themselves, but it does happen and it happens slowly. You're working hard, you're showing up, and then your energy disappears by midday. Your focus is dull, your weight won't move. A lot of people are told, that's just getting old. That's what it is, but that's not actually true. For many men and women, these are not personal affairs. They are signals tied to your metabolism, your hormones and nutrient imbalances that go undetected for years. You don't even know you're deficient. And that's why we're happy to partner with Joy and Blokes, a company that was built for people who are all done guessing and ready to figure out what exactly is going on. And that starts with comprehensive lab work and a one-on-one consultation with a licensed clinician.

• 41:08Tucker Carlson?

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• 41:50Tucker Carlson?

  They've, both of them, as you said, are smart and capable.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Very smart, very capable. Generational.

• 41:56Tucker Carlson?

  Yes. And both have put their prestige on the line.

• 42:00Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 42:01Tucker Carlson?

  So they're highly motivated.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 42:03Tucker Carlson?

  To show results by July 4th, 2026.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  But I don't want cheap victories. I don't want them to go, we've cut, I mean, first of all, it'd be great if they cut X number of dollars of spending and cut X, you know, hundreds or thousands of regulations. Wonderful, wonderful victories. Again, those are the effects. The cause is the state. All of this stuff that we've seen, the out of control spending, the out of control growth of government, all of these things are because of the administrative state. It's in the DNA of it.

• 42:34Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 42:35Speaker 02

  No, I mean, the progressives who founded the administrative state viewed the state as salvation. Salvation was to come into every aspect of your life.

• 42:43Tucker Carlson?

  It exists for its own benefit and it grows inexorably.

• 42:46Speaker 02

  The DNA of the administrative state is perpetual growth. So if you, if it continues to grow and you're just trimming right here and like, oh, we declared victory. It'll continue, it'll grow right back. You have to cut down the tree. The branches will keep growing. So I don't want them to just trim branches. I need them to tear up by root the administrative state. So that doesn't return and continue to grow.

• 43:09Tucker Carlson?

  A quick way to, to parrot, I think, pretty significantly would be to cancel the security clearances of the contractors who work, because the federal government is, you know, its employees are just a, just a percentage of its overall workforce. A lot of them are contractors.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  Twice, last statistics I saw, there are about twice as many federal contractors as there are federal employees.

• 43:30Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. And a huge, all of the, all of the contractors attached to the national security state, which comprises the entire economy of, say, Northern Virginia.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  Right. Where I'm from.

• 43:40Tucker Carlson?

  Where you're from. Yes, exactly. It, these are the richest zip codes in the country because they're all federal contractors. And you could end their employment tomorrow by canceling the security clearances. I mean, that, they can't work there without security clearance. They can't enter the building.

• 43:55Speaker 02

  I, I am for all of the above and whatever approach it takes in the short term to stop the madness. I, I talk about this a little bit in the book where you've got system dynamics and inside of this massive sprawling system, you've got these reinforcing loops.

• 44:07Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 44:07Speaker 02

  That continue to grow and grow and compound. It's almost like compounding interest and then just explode in size and strength. Yeah, I think you've got to start stopping these little reinforcing loops like revoking security clearances. Um, so I think there's a whole variety of.

• 44:19Tucker Carlson?

  American Leviathan.

• 44:21Speaker 02

  American Leviathan.

• 44:22Tucker Carlson?

  Leviathan's a sea monster.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  It is, but also the second definition is a massive sprawling bureaucracy that, that borders on totalitarian.

• 44:30Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, but the Leviathan is described in, I think.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  Job and Isaiah.

• 44:34Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:35Tucker Carlson?

  In the Old Testament, yes, as a, some sort of not quite defined, but terrifying sea monster.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, quasi, quasi demonic sea monster, um, that God eventually conquers, that Yahweh eventually conquers. But the second definition is, is definitely about a massive sprawling bureaucracy that tends to be authoritarian and totalitarian. And that's what we have. I mean, this is the one thing that I just. It kinda started dawning on me years ago, like, there's a serious problem with how DC operates. I mean, I was at the White House, George W. Bush, don't hate me for this, I wrote for him, which was a really interesting experience, you know, whenever you get to write for a president, and he's signing your stuff, that's awesome, while my dad was in the House voting against all of his major pieces of legislation.

• 45:18Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  Which was pretty, when you go, when you're young and you go to DC and you're kinda new to it, you think all Republicans are created equal, all the red guys are good guys and all the blue guys are bad guys, and then you start to realize, like I said earlier, not all Republicans are created equal, there's definitely like different shades along the way, and I remember my dad having to take some pretty strong stances in the House and voting against a lot of these major initiatives from George W. Bush, because he strongly believed they were not conservative at all in the least bit. In fact, one of the biggest ones was Medicare Part D, this is one of the, my dad is-

• 45:55Tucker Carlson?

  The prescription drug benefit.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  Yes, the prescription drug benefit, I think it was 2003, right before the 2004 election, they really wanted it because they felt it would help with the senior vote. And there were about 24, about two dozen holdouts in the House and the Republican caucus that said, "We're not going to vote for this, we're just not going to," they brought him down to the White House, they had Dick Cheney and all the senior White House staff kinda have a little chit chat with them, they all came back, said, "We're still not voting for this," and then Bush was overseas and started lobbying them directly, and I remember him calling my dad and saying, "I really need this vote," and my dad was like, "You know, you're doing a great job representing us overseas, sir, Jim, I really need this vote, I'm not giving you this vote," click, that was it, that was the end of the conversation.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  And, yeah, my dad, fighting tooth and nail to try and prevent that from passing, it actually passed by one vote, because they kept the House floor open for an additional, I don't know how many hours, and eventually got someone to switch their vote in the, like, 3:00 AM, 4:00 AM hour.

• 46:54Tucker Carlson?

  This was a Karl Rove project.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  It was, yeah, you realize compassionate conservatism is just another name for big government, and this is, so this is the other thing too, I make this point-

• 47:05Tucker Carlson?

  Remember when people treated Karl Rove like a genius?

• 47:07Speaker 02

  Yes. The thing, the thing that-

• 47:10Tucker Carlson?

  I'll lower your standards if Karl's a genius.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  The thing that's-

• 47:15Speaker 02

  That Donald Trump again and why he's viewed as such an existential threat by permanent DC is he rejects the premise.

• 47:20Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  Nixon and Reagan rejected the premise that the administrative state was legitimate. And I think actually Watergate is really more a story of that than anything else. I mean, when you go back and look at the story of Watergate, Richard Nixon had just won 520 electoral votes.

• 47:39Tucker Carlson?

  Biggest victory in American history.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  Forty-nine states, won by 20 million votes in the popular vote. It was massive. And he had talked very clearly about what he intended to do in a second term in restructuring and dismantling administrative state. And then low and behold, Watergate happens and there's a lot of questions about what actually went down.

• 47:54Tucker Carlson?

  Not questions, they're answers. The deputy director of the FBI was deep throat.

• 47:57Speaker 02

  Mark Feld. Yeah, Mark Feld. Goes to his corporate propagandists, Woodward and Bernstein.

• 48:01Tucker Carlson?

  And Woodward was a former naval intel officer.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  And uses them as the mouthpiece to then take out the duly-elected president of the United States, who was an existential threat to the administrative state.

• 48:09Tucker Carlson?

  It was.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  Lip side of the coins, Russiagate.

• 48:11Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  Same thing. Because the first Republican president since Reagan to reject the premise that the administrative state is legitimate was Donald Trump. George W. Bush, George H. W. Bush, George W. Bush were like, we're okay with it as long as we get to run it. And this is what always worries me a little bit about Republicans who like, well, it's okay as long as we're running it. No, it's a poisonous tree with poisonous fruit.

• 48:32Tucker Carlson?

  Can I say?

• 48:33Speaker 02

  You cannot reform it.

• 48:35Tucker Carlson?

  Richard Nixon should have held, I mean, he was an institutionalist in a lot of ways. Nixon, he was like too responsible for his own good, but if he had just held a primetime news conference live and said, let me tell you what's actually going on here. CIA and FBI have colluded to kick me out because I'm a threat to permanent Washington institutional power, and that's just a fact, and here are some details that you might like to know, you know, that five out of six of the Watergate burglars were actually CIA employees, like.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 49:04Tucker Carlson?

  And the guy, this reporter from the Washington Post is actually. Worked in the White House. He was sent over by the Pentagon to work in the White House as a naval intel officer two years ago. This guy's not a reporter. Bob Woodward's not a reporter.

• 49:17Speaker 02

  When you look back.

• 49:18Tucker Carlson?

  It's also fake.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, when you look back.

• 49:20Tucker Carlson?

  Why didn't Nixon do that?

• 49:20Speaker 02

  I don't know, but that, but, but that shows you who Donald Trump is as a person.

• 49:25Tucker Carlson?

  Right. No, you're right.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  I mean, Nixon, Nixon could have done that.

• 49:28Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  He didn't. Donald Trump basically has.

• 49:31Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, that's not the truth of what's taking place.

• 49:34Tucker Carlson?

  No, you're right. You're totally.

• 49:36Speaker 02

  And he stood up and he said, this, this is completely politically motivated. They're trying to take me out because I'm a threat to them.

• 49:43Tucker Carlson?

  That's such a smart description of the difference between Donald Trump and Richard Nixon is that Trump said aloud what was actually happening. And I think that's why they tried to assassinate him in Butler, Pennsylvania, among other places. So, um, thank you for that. Let me ask about something you alluded to, which is law.

• 50:02Speaker 02

  Can I say something really quick, though?

• 50:03Tucker Carlson?

  Of course, please.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  The amount of courage that it simply took to say something out loud that people would consider verboten.

• 50:11Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  That's part of Donald Trump's great power. He'll say stuff out loud to people, you shouldn't say that, or you, you, you can't be saying that. But he needs to say, and he should say it, because of situations like this, where he has the ability to say that. And sometimes, you know, he says things that, you know, maybe are not the, the most helpful, but a lot of times he says things out loud that in the past, people would have said, you can't, you can't say that.

• 50:35Tucker Carlson?

  But it does raise the question, like, why can't you, like?

• 50:38Speaker 02

  I know. Why can't you?

• 50:38Tucker Carlson?

  Why has no one else said that?

• 50:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 50:40Tucker Carlson?

  And why has no one ever explained what the UFO program is about, or?

• 50:43Speaker 02

  Why?

• 50:43Tucker Carlson?

  Who killed Kennedy? Or what happened on 9/11? Like, just the obvious things. Nobody, why is no other president, not that Trump has revealed the truth about any of those things, but?

• 50:52Speaker 02

  Hopefully someday, soon.

• 50:53Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, but I think we're, we're getting closer just to knowing what the government's been doing for the past 80 years. But you have to wonder about all the other presidents. Like, the amount of things that every American president has not said.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 51:05Tucker Carlson?

  The amount of things that people just very obviously lied about, like, why? What are they so afraid of? You just got elected by the population.

• 51:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 51:11Tucker Carlson?

  The most powerful country in the world. Why do you care? You got your army behind you. They're your voters. Why, why can't you tell obvious truths about things? Like, what are you afraid of exactly? That is, like, I mean?

• 51:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:22Tucker Carlson?

  If you want to understand people's behavior.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 51:26Tucker Carlson?

  Look at it through that lens. What are they not saying? What are they not doing? What are the limits they're imposing on themselves and why are they imposing?

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Why are they doing that?

• 51:32Tucker Carlson?

  What are they? What exactly are you afraid of? You control the Pentagon and the FBI.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 51:36Tucker Carlson?

  It's not like you don't have bodyguards.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 51:37Tucker Carlson?

  You've got tens of thousands of bodyguards.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  It's a great question. Donald Trump, again, has said, "I reject the premise that I have to be quiet," which I think is a very refreshing approach. And the question is, how far will he go? And I hope he does go.

• 51:50Tucker Carlson?

  I totally agree, but it would be interesting to know what the control mechanisms are. And if you, the last thing, I'll shut up, but the last thing I would just recommend anyone watching is to go pull the audio of Richard Nixon in the Oval Office, speaking to the then CIA Director about, among other things, the Kennedy assassination and the fear or the sort of deference that Nixon has is very striking. Nixon's a pretty brave guy in a lot of ways, but like, you know, it's, you're talking to your employee, you're talking to your housekeeper. Like, you don't need deference? What? Answer the freaking question, pal, or I'll fire you. There's none of that in his voice. None.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  No, I know, because...

• 52:35Tucker Carlson?

  You've got employees. Would you tiptoe around when you talk to them? Like, "Did you finish the assignment? Are you embarrassed to ask that?" No. They're your employees.

• 52:43Speaker 02

  Because the power structure that has been constructed over the last 100 years, how do I, there's a couple of threads I want to go down with that question.

• 52:51Tucker Carlson?

  He's not really talking to his employees.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  He's not talking to his employees.

• 52:53Tucker Carlson?

  He's talking to his masters, actually.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah. He's talking to the real decision makers inside of our government, which was the whole point.

• 52:58Tucker Carlson?

  It's crazy.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  No, I mean, in American Leviathan, the people have to understand progressives hated the Constitution. They wanted to destroy the political and moral authority of it. They wanted to do away with the machinery of the republic. They want to do a separation of powers, all of these things. And in its place, put in this massive administrative state, this massive bureaucracy, filled with unelected bureaucrats, who they thought our elected representatives should sub-delegate governing and legislating to, because they thought the bureaucrats should actually be doing the business of governing and running the country. So people, I think people are a little perplexed when they see behavior like this, where the unelected bureaucrats, like Chris Wray, remember at that hearing with Grassley, with the Oversight Committee hearing, and Wray informs him...

• 53:43Speaker 02

  Hey, I gotta go. I gotta get on my plane. I've got an important trip to be at. It was a family vacation, by the way. He told off the Senate that was supposed to be providing oversight. I have to leave. And he goes on FBI jet to his private vacation home to enjoy a little downtime. He was telling off the people that were supposed to be providing oversight because it's not really how it works anymore. But that was the always-

• 54:04Tucker Carlson?

  But those people never threatened. Okay-

• 54:06Speaker 02

  But that was the point from day one.

• 54:07Tucker Carlson?

  Chris will defund you. I mean, why is that-

• 54:09Speaker 02

  This is what I ca- so-

• 54:10Tucker Carlson?

  We're not going to build you a new building.

• 54:12Speaker 02

  The whole point was for these elected bureaucrats to be doing the covering, to be doing the decision making. It'd be nice if Congress said, you know what? We hold the purse strings. We're not going to fund you anymore. We're just simply not going to fund you.

• 54:24Tucker Carlson?

  Why did Speaker of the House sign off on a new FBI building?

• 54:27Speaker 02

  Great question.

• 54:28Tucker Carlson?

  Like, what's that? Can we just, okay, let's just be totally blunt now. What is that? The Republican Speaker of the House, who strikes me as like an out of the closet liberal, out of the closet liberal, um, more than, more than weak, working for the, working for the other side. I mean, that's-

• 54:47Speaker 02

  He's the best speaker Democrats could hope for.

• 54:50Tucker Carlson?

  So, what?

• 54:52Speaker 02

  Not a fan. And I, I kind of understand some of the political dynamics of why Trump is pushing for him to avoid, what was it, 17 votes or whatever it was, let's get down to business that we had last time. So I kind of understand some of that. At the same time, I mean, could Democrats hope for a better speaker right now with them being in the minority? I don't think so. Mike Johnson is one of the best things they could hope for right now. He gives them whatever they want to. I think, I think this recent spending bill, the initial version of it, really shows the true nature of who someone is that allows something like that to go to the, to, to come out and, and be in public of this 15, 1600-page monstrosity. I think

• 55:33Speaker 02

  that was the true illustration of, of how weak he actually is. Um, but yeah, I mean, these guys have been performing- Political lawfare inside of our government against not only the president, but I would argue members of Congress and for years. And you're going to go ahead and reward them with, I can't even remember the cost for a new FBI headquarters, but it's not millions, it's hundreds of millions, right?

• 55:58Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  Why are you rewarding these people that have badly abused our system? Who, by the way, I don't think, right now in their current iteration, the DOJ and the FBI, you know, we always consider them the guardians of the rule of law and one of the basic pillars of our society was rule of law and the equal enforcement of justice that all stood equal before the law. And the DOJ and the FBI were going to enforce that and make sure that happened. Now they're just a authoritarian guard of the administrative state. Why are you funding them? Why are you rewarding them for this behavior in which, quite frankly, I would go back to self-preservation. If you had, if you really do believe in self-preservation as a party and as an opposition party, because the DOJ and the FBI and the various parts of the administrative state are protecting the administrative state and they view Republicans, for the most part, as a threat to that.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  Why are you funding them to continue doing more damage to you and trying to destroy you? Are you insane? Makes no sense.

• 56:53Tucker Carlson?

  What's the answer?

• 56:55Speaker 02

  I think they're weak. I don't think they understand what time it is. I don't think they fully come to the clue. I don't think they want to maybe fully examine the reality of what is.

• 57:06Tucker Carlson?

  They seem afraid of their enemies, but not of their friends.

• 57:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:09Tucker Carlson?

  They seem more eager to please their enemies than to please their allies.

• 57:13Speaker 02

  But what end? In hopes that they'll get eaten last? This, to me, is at some point, you have to wake up to the reality of what's going on.

• 57:21Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 57:22Speaker 02

  And if you don't, it might be too late. And that's why I think Donald Trump being re-elected is a huge step in the right direction of, hopefully, he can instill a little bit of a spine.

• 57:33Tucker Carlson?

  Who's he gonna pardon?

• 57:34Speaker 02

  Backbone. Who is Trump?

• 57:36Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 57:36Speaker 02

  Going to pardon? Well, I hope they won, it's all the January 6th.

• 57:39Tucker Carlson?

  I think that, I think that's right.

• 57:40Speaker 02

  I mean, listen, that was, there are so many different questions that have now risen. I had questions when it actually happened. Like what this, this, something's wrong here. You can't, I mean, the whole, all the chaos. There's something wrong.

• 57:53Tucker Carlson?

  Well, now we just know it's just a setup.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  It was a setup.

• 57:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 57:55Speaker 02

  I think he has to go out and not only pardon them, I would hope that they get good lawyers and they get massive settlements from the government for all the abuse they've taken over the last four years. Significant.

• 58:06Tucker Carlson?

  And I hope all the, the media people I used to work with who hated me for saying that apologize because now.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  They never will. They haven't apologized, they haven't apologized for Russiagate.

• 58:16Tucker Carlson?

  No, they haven't.

• 58:17Speaker 02

  They didn't apologize for using a fake dossier and saying this is proof of Russian collusion when, quite frankly, I think a lot of them, well, some of them didn't because they're not smart enough. Some of them knew that it was fake. They just viewed it as a useful weapon to take out someone they hated. I think some of them actually believed it because they're dumb.

• 58:36Tucker Carlson?

  So he pardons the J six defendants. Amen. I think he will. He said he will.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 58:41Tucker Carlson?

  Immediately. But is, I mean, Biden just pardoned a bunch of murderers, including people who murdered children and drug dealers. So, I mean, there's a precedent for, you know, big pardons. Do you think there's a lot of people are going to get pardoned?

• 59:00Speaker 02

  I hope so. I mean, I couldn't give you a list of names, but I.

• 59:03Tucker Carlson?

  But the victims of lawfare.

• 59:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would think that he can go through and just go for the last four years or, quite frankly, eight years, everybody that has been abused by this political lawfare, who's been abused by the DOJ and the FBI and every other aspect of our government, full pardon. And again, go back to not just the pardons, not, not only do you get your freedom back and your, your lives back, but I hope that there's significant settlements.

• 59:29Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 59:29Speaker 02

  I mean, I, I hope that these people get paid out significantly and I don't like to see more taxpayer money being sent out to people, but in this situation, I'm all for it.

• 59:38Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I am too. Speaking of spending, so you said the goal has to be to uproot the tree, not just pare down its branches.

• 59:51Speaker 02

  This tree.

• 59:51Tucker Carlson?

  Right. The American Leviathan.

• 59:53Speaker 02

  This is the tree.

• 59:54Tucker Carlson?

  If, if there is a debt crisis, and I think everyone is, whether they say it a lot or not, really concerned about.

• 59:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:59Tucker Carlson?

  You know.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  What are we, 36 trillion?

• 1:00:02Tucker Carlson?

  And by debt crisis, I mean specifically the reluctance of country, other countries and institutions to buy our debt.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:00:10Tucker Carlson?

  You know, because that, that, you know, then we're really hamstrung. Could a debt crisis, which is probably coming at some point, be used to to uproot the tree? Because it's like very expensive to have a government this big.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  It is. It's unsustainable.

• 1:00:27Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  I mean, this is, at some point, and I think we're coming to that, I think we have come to that point, I think we came to that point a long time ago, actually, but now it's becoming unsustainable. I mean, at one point this last, was it last year or two years ago, we were growing it by a trillion in a hundred days, every hundred days or something, the national debt, it's exploding. I think Trump thinks he can grow us out of some of these situations. I don't think that's the only, I don't think that's the solution. At some point, you have to address the underlying of what are we actually doing with this government that continues to grow, that the DNA and its DNA is perpetual growth. Again, going back to, if you believe government, if you believe the state is salvation, and

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  it should invade every aspect of your life, well, until every aspect of your life is saved, government will continue to grow. You have to completely destroy this to stop the spending, to stop the growth. So I think he has to, he has to go down a dual path. Yeah, we can, you know, growth in our economy, but at the same time, the underlying cost for the debt, the spending, has been this state. And I think we have to have a conversation. This is, this is the one thing where it feels like the American people, we never actually had a conversation with the American people about what form of government they wanted. It was just a slow-moving regime change, I would argue, a slow-moving revolution against the republic over the last hundred years. People are under the illusion, we have some representative democracy, constitutional republic, when in fact, we don't.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  What, what is the government that we think best fits, that is best suited for a government of, by and for the people, that provides the most, you know, amount of freedom and liberty, and the most amount of prosperity for the American people? And we've really, I don't think we've really had that conversation over the last hundred years. It's just kind of been slow-moving, and all of a sudden, we wake up to find ourselves in 2024, 2025 now, going...

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  I don't think we ever had a conversation about this.

• 1:02:22Tucker Carlson?

  Right, because the country is rich and as long as you're rich, you don't worry about details.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  And the economy was growing and life was great and we're just going to continue on. This will never end. But that's not, that's not how history works. That's not how, at some point, the music stops and people have to have hard conversations about what are we actually doing to make sure that we, this is sustainable in the future? Because what we have is not sustainable at all on any level.

• 1:02:47Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:04:56Tucker Carlson?

  You were a backer of Cash Patel for FBI Director.

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I lobbied Trump on it.

• 1:05:04Tucker Carlson?

  Why? And what do you think? Why do you think it's a good idea that he's gonna run the FBI?

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  So I was deeply concerned about, you know, people, somewhere, somewhere inside of Trump world, someone was pushing Mike Rogers, which I thought was a terrible mistake.

• 1:05:18Tucker Carlson?

  Who's Mike Rogers?

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  Former FBI agent, was running for Senate, was a member of the House, former FBI, was a member of the House, I think, intel committee, then was running for Senate this time around, lost narrowly, and then someone was pushing him to be FBI Director, which I think was the wrong take by, like, a country mile. You don't need an institutionalist to go in and run what I think is one of the most corrupt institutions in our country today. And I told Trump, I was like, as much as you need a loyalist running DOJ, times it times a hundred, running the FBI, it's a pit of vipers. And you need somebody like Cash Patel. We talked about Rick Grenell, Cash Patel. But you need somebody that's gonna go in there and be fearless to say, we're, we are, we are not doing this anymore. In

• 1:06:04Speaker 02

  fact, I, I would kind of like, I know Cash has said this, again, we'll see what happens, but, you know, he's, he said that day one, he'd shut it down and turn it into a museum for the deep state. The FBI in its current form, its current iteration, needs to cease to exist. And I think Cash Patel has not only the, the intelligence and the skills...

• 1:06:25Tucker Carlson?

  Who's gonna commit terror attacks if we don't have an FBI?

• 1:06:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, this to me, I think we have to, what has been the point of the FBI? They started, what, 1908, I think, is when they originated? What are they actually doing? What is their purpose right now? Besides being...

• 1:06:42Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know.

• 1:06:43Speaker 02

  ...Praetorian guard for the administrative state.

• 1:06:45Tucker Carlson?

  Recruiting Tim McVeigh?

• 1:06:45Speaker 02

  Right, and, and looking at potential people like Donald Trump as existential threats and trying to destroy them. What, what, and then we continue to fund it blindly. This is writ large with our government administrative state. What I find one of the most interesting things about Republicans today, and have for, quite frankly, years...

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  Elect me. I'm gonna go to DC. I'm gonna change DC. They get to DC. They accept budget recommendations from these very departmented agencies. Go ahead and pass those, fund them. Do these four, 5,000 page bills. Send them over to the bureaucrats, who with their statutes and regulations actually put a fine point on how this is actually gonna look in reality. So they're doing the real governing. So they've not only given them all the funding without any real oversight. They just give it to them. They've then subdelegated their legislative authority to these unelected bureaucrats. And then go home and say, you need to send me back. I know those, those, those people at the EPA or the FDA made some terrible regulations that are ruining your lives. But send me back. I'll fight the system. And I'll make sure that doesn't happen again. As they get reelected, to then fund those people again, to then send them forward 5,000 page bills,

• 1:07:53Speaker 02

  to then do the statutes and regulations that actually govern us. The whole system is completely bonkers. And it's actually very beneficial to most of these elected representatives.

• 1:08:02Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:03Speaker 02

  Experts in self-preservation, because they don't have to make the hard choices. They don't actually have to do the really hard decisions on legislating, because the statutes and regulations that have the binding effect of laws is what's being done over here in the Article 2 branch by these administrative state bureaucrats. At some point, we, we, we, I do have some hope that we're gonna have a chance, not only with Donald Trump, but the Supreme Court. Did you, the last summer, there were a couple cases that I think gave us real hope.

• 1:08:29Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  It was not only Chevron deference, where the Supreme Court said-

• 1:08:32Tucker Carlson?

  My favorite case.

• 1:08:33Speaker 02

  Forty years, this is a disaster. We're not gonna have judicial deference to these bureaucrats. I eat regulations and statutes. I think the other one that wasn't discussed as much, that should have been, is when the Supreme Court said, the SEC tribunals, you can't have those anymore. You can't have, the SEC cannot have its own private administrative law tribunal, in which 90% of the time, that SEC tribunal ruled in favor of the SEC. The Supreme Court said, first of all, it calls into question the idea of an independent judiciary, because you're taking the judicial role inside the Article 2 branch, not the Article 3. And even annihilated Seventh, our Seventh Amendment, which is right to trial by jury. We're not gonna do this anymore. Which was, by the way, I mean, you look at some of these things that we're dealing with today and look at where the founders started. They wanted an independent judiciary because they saw

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  what the British courts were doing in rubber stamping King George III and his ministers and Parliament's edicts that they viewed as very deeply unfair to them, but they were just acting as a rubber stamp. So they said, we're gonna have an independent judiciary. And then with the administrative state, obviously, it's annihilated the separation of powers. And you have Article II branch doing a lot of the legislative, a lot of judicial. I think Supreme Court stepping up and saying, we're not gonna do this anymore is another step in the right direction. But at some point, I would hope that members of Congress would find it within themselves to have just the smallest bit of political courage to say, I'm not going to blindly fund this stuff anymore. And that's a step in the right direction. For example, with the FBI. We're not gonna do this anymore. We can't do this anymore. For our own sakes. For the sake of the country.

• 1:09:58Tucker Carlson?

  I think it's be important for the White House to lead on, on issues like that. Just how about no? How about no?

• 1:10:06Speaker 02

  I, I would very much like Donald Trump to say, the FBI does not deserve a new headquarters.

• 1:10:10Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, that and a lot of other issues, you know, just like.

• 1:10:12Speaker 02

  Just make statements.

• 1:10:13Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, exactly. What happens to Kamala Harris now?

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  Where does she go from here?

• 1:10:20Tucker Carlson?

  Where does she go? I know you're not a Democrat, but.

• 1:10:22Speaker 02

  The, the ash heap of history?

• 1:10:24Tucker Carlson?

  But like, you know, typically, you run for president and you lose on the Democratic side and you get, well, John Kerry's our climate czar, I guess, right? And there's always a soft landing for, for the loser.

• 1:10:38Speaker 02

  I don't think so. Not for her.

• 1:10:40Tucker Carlson?

  Tell me.

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  I think she was such a disaster. They got stuck. I mean, first of all, they boxed themselves into a corner of their own making.

• 1:10:47Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  Right? They, they knew Joe Biden.

• 1:10:50Tucker Carlson?

  They got a DEI candidate and they live with the results.

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  Right. And then all of a sudden realize in June, this isn't gonna cut it.

• 1:10:57Tucker Carlson?

  I'm glad they didn't make her like a commercial airplane pilot. Do you, I mean, we, America got out pretty easy.

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  We, we did. And I think they got stuck and they realized this is the only horse we've got to ride. They tried to pull it off. It looked, for a couple of weeks, maybe they've got a shot. And then all of a sudden, obviously, the reality of who she is.

• 1:11:17Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  A lightweight, intellectually, a lightweight, so far in over her head. It's clear that she's just been going up the ranks as a DEI advancement for her whole life.

• 1:11:29Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:11:31Speaker 02

  I, I, I think they're gonna be very happy for her to fade off into obscurity. I mean, all this, I, I saw some chat.

• 1:11:37Tucker Carlson?

  You feel sorry for her at all?

• 1:11:38Speaker 02

  I do not at all.

• 1:11:40Tucker Carlson?

  I kind of do. Maybe I'm the liberal here, but I, I feel like she's a victim of, of self-esteem culture. And I think.

• 1:11:48Speaker 02

  She's allowed herself to be that, though.

• 1:11:49Tucker Carlson?

  She had, no, you're, you're absolutely right.

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  She's been a beneficiary of it. She's had.

• 1:11:55Tucker Carlson?

  She became Vice President of the United States.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  Well, I'm saying based off, being completely honest, based off her talents or lack thereof, or her skillsets, whatever. She's had a pretty fricking good life.

• 1:12:05Tucker Carlson?

  No, she had, no, you're absolutely right.

• 1:12:07Speaker 02

  But imagine. Far above and beyond what she should have done.

• 1:12:09Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, no, you're right. But that's true, but she's also just a, a vessel for the ambitions of others. Like, she's almost like an innocent bystander kidnapped off the street, just, just human trafficked into her current position. Do you know what I mean? It's like, you just, you just look like the kind of person.

• 1:12:26Speaker 02

  I don't know if I've ever heard it described that way.

• 1:12:28Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  Uh, I'm gonna have to think about that.

• 1:12:30Tucker Carlson?

  Maybe I'm the liberal, but I just, she's so dumb. And you just could, what is that phrase they use? Imposter syndrome?

• 1:12:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:12:36Tucker Carlson?

  Where you sort of know that you're not qualified to be doing what you're doing and people say they feel that way, but her whole life was that.

• 1:12:43Speaker 02

  She has no future in national politics.

• 1:12:46Tucker Carlson?

  For sure. So will she be the head of the Douchebag Foundation or wherever they sort of put people like that?

• 1:12:53Speaker 02

  I don't know. I really don't.

• 1:12:54Tucker Carlson?

  Right?

• 1:12:55Speaker 02

  It feels like she has completely just, even though she's still, you know, Vice President for, for a few more weeks. It feels like she has already been relegated to obscurity. And I think that's going to be the rest of her.

• 1:13:07Tucker Carlson?

  She's just disappeared.

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  Yes, can be the rest of her existence. I'm sure that somewhere or someone will find her a nice gig at a foundation, but I think this last time you're gonna see any serious conversation about her.

• 1:13:17Tucker Carlson?

  Required to keep her in the public eye, like George Floyd. I always felt like, once we, remember we declared him Jesus? I don't know if you remember that.

• 1:13:24Speaker 02

  We defied him.

• 1:13:24Tucker Carlson?

  I wanted to keep talking about George Floyd.

• 1:13:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:13:26Tucker Carlson?

  Like, why don't we have George Floyd Day?

• 1:13:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:13:28Tucker Carlson?

  Like, let's talk about, you know, his porn career.

• 1:13:30Speaker 02

  I, I, I think they are.

• 1:13:31Tucker Carlson?

  And his drug addiction and his armed robbery conviction.

• 1:13:34Speaker 02

  I think they are more than happy for her to just simply fade away.

• 1:13:38Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, so I don't think they should be allowed to do that. I don't think they should be allowed to memory hole Carmella Harris.

• 1:13:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:42Tucker Carlson?

  Like, she should have to explain how her first name is pronounced and why and why she doesn't do so consistently. I think she should be forced to talk a lot more, just to like, make them

• 1:13:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:13:52Tucker Carlson?

  Make the dog return to his vomit.

• 1:13:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:13:55Tucker Carlson?

  That's what we should make them do.

• 1:13:56Speaker 02

  We should.

• 1:13:57Tucker Carlson?

  Like, where is Kamala Harris? She's like the greatest joy spreader this country's ever seen. How did she disappear?

• 1:14:02Speaker 02

  I think they will do everything that they can to avoid that. I think they will do everything they can to make sure they never have a conversation about her again.

• 1:14:09Tucker Carlson?

  She should be president of Harvard. I think, no, I'm serious. You should take their most beloved institution, the most rotten, corrupt, disgusting, overrated.

• 1:14:17Speaker 02

  You should, you should start a petition on this.

• 1:14:20Tucker Carlson?

  For real. Like, she's such a genius. She's so incredibly, she's the most accomplished woman who ever ran for president. She should be required to be the head of Harvard. How great would that be?

• 1:14:29Speaker 02

  I like that.

• 1:14:30Tucker Carlson?

  Yes!

• 1:14:30Speaker 02

  Sure, let's do it. We could start a campaign together.

• 1:14:32Tucker Carlson?

  Don't you think?

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 1:14:35Tucker Carlson?

  But in real life, like, she's just gonna fade away.

• 1:14:36Speaker 02

  She's gone.

• 1:14:37Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's gone.

• 1:14:38Tucker Carlson?

  What about Jill Biden?

• 1:14:40Speaker 02

  Dr. Jill?

• 1:14:40Tucker Carlson?

  Dr. Jill, sorry. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to be sexist.

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  I, I, yeah, I've.

• 1:14:44Tucker Carlson?

  She has an education degree from the University of North Delaware or whatever.

• 1:14:47Speaker 02

  You mean our first female president?

• 1:14:49Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. Come on.

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  I think the scary part, the scary part to me over the last four years is that we knew, some of us knew sooner than others, but I think a lot of people knew, this guy had early cognitive decline. He was already in some stage of dementia.

• 1:15:06Tucker Carlson?

  His sister was telling people, I know that.

• 1:15:08Speaker 02

  From pretty much day one.

• 1:15:09Tucker Carlson?

  He ran for president.

• 1:15:09Speaker 02

  Right, from pretty much day one of him being sworn in.

• 1:15:13Speaker 02

  I mean, this to me is one of the great scandals of, I don't know, however many generations of political history.

• 1:15:18Tucker Carlson?

  Ever, yeah.

• 1:15:19Speaker 02

  That we had Joe Biden in the White House in cognitive decline, early dementia, whatever you want to call it, who was actually running the country for four years. I mean, this is, this to me is like, it's a Woodrow Wilson replay, right, where his wife and his chief of staff were actually running most of it.

• 1:15:35Tucker Carlson?

  Tony Blinken, I think, was running.

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  You think Blinken?

• 1:15:37Tucker Carlson?

  I do.

• 1:15:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:39Tucker Carlson?

  But certainly the meaningful parts of the.

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  And then everybody covered it up.

• 1:15:42Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:15:42Speaker 02

  Like, wait.

• 1:15:44Tucker Carlson?

  Joe Scarborough, this is the greatest version of Biden ever.

• 1:15:47Speaker 02

  So. Yeah, I don't, you know, Dr. Jill, our first female president should have a bright future in front of her, whatever she wants to do.

• 1:15:56Tucker Carlson?

  The one thing I always liked, well, there are actually honestly a couple of things I always liked about Hunter Biden, I know you're not supposed to say it, but you know, I knew him well, and I always kind of liked him. And drug addiction was his real, was the, you know, he became a monster because of cocaine and pills, as many do, but, um, but he hated her.

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:16:13Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, he thought she was a screaming bitch. And he said so in person, and he said so in writing on his laptop. Oh, yeah, he said that she was a bitch and stupid. And I think that's a fair assessment.

• 1:16:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:24Tucker Carlson?

  From someone who spent his life living with her, like, he would, if anyone would know what Dr. Jill is really like, it's her stepson.

• 1:16:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:30Tucker Carlson?

  Hunter, who started dating his dad when he was like, four or something, so. And I don't know why Republicans didn't make more of that. Everyone wanted to focus on the crack and the toe sucking and everything, but Dr. Jill is stupid and a bitch.

• 1:16:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:45Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know, I thought that was great.

• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  Republicans aren't used, again, going back to what we discussed earlier, they're not used to fighting bare knuckles, brawling style, and they think that would have been beneath them and undignified.

• 1:16:59Tucker Carlson?

  Undignified.

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  And these people were, these people for four years. And this was not, I mean, I think we have to have the, you know, when we talked about immigration and, and our foreign policy and the inflation and them, and economy and all these things were taking place. This, when there's a series of coincidences, it ceases to be a coincidence.

• 1:17:19Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:17:20Speaker 02

  It was all systematic.

• 1:17:21Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:21Speaker 02

  Just, we're just gonna just continue to destroy this country, we're gonna completely remake it with massive illegal immigration.

• 1:17:30Speaker 02

  I mean, that, that, this to me is why I can't understand, these people hate this country. They hate the country as originally founded, they hate the original constitution. They hate the idea of the free born American people.

• 1:17:42Tucker Carlson?

  They hate whites, if I can just say.

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  There's a lot of things that they have hated for a long, and they intentionally and systematically were seeking to destroy us and our way of life. And Republicans, a lot of Republicans in DC are going along with it, going, oh, they're really not that bad, are they? Yes, they are, they truly are. And they would hope, they, their goal, I think, is to see this country cease to exist as it once was, and to create some new order for this country that has nothing to do with where we came from at all.

• 1:18:13Tucker Carlson?

  I think people feel that.

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  But they wouldn't fight.

• 1:18:16Tucker Carlson?

  One of the brights, no, they wouldn't. One person who I think is a, is a true bright spot in the Republican Party, there are a couple, but the brightest of all, in my view, is JD Vance.

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:18:26Tucker Carlson?

  Who has a gut level understanding of everything you just said, is legit smart, smarter than I think people understand, like, actual high IQ character.

• 1:18:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:36Tucker Carlson?

  Not a ton of those in politics, and also a decent person, kind of normal person. So he's now Vice President. What does that mean?

• 1:18:45Speaker 02

  I have to tell you one of the most, you've known JD longer than me. I met him when he was thinking about running for Senate.

• 1:18:52Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:18:52Speaker 02

  In the primary. Got to know him. I obviously lobbied Trump to endorse him in the primary in Senate.

• 1:18:58Tucker Carlson?

  Good for you.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  So got to know him a little bit there, obviously lobbied a little bit for him to be VP. I know you and Don Jr. did a lot more on that front, but it was like, this is, this is the future of the country. I texted him. The most impressive part to me is, having known him, seeing where he's come from, you get put in pressure cookers like he was put in over the last year. You either collapse, you rise. He's gone next level. I mean, this to me is, I mean, obviously, he's an intelligent person, he's very talented, but you get put into those situations, you either collapse or rise, and he rose. And I think he's gone to the next.

• 1:19:31Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, did he?

• 1:19:32Speaker 02

  He's gone to the next level, which is extremely impressive. And I think the thing that was really important for me in who Trump picked as his VP was the future of what does America first look like after I'm gone? He's got four years, he's done, right? That's it. And I think a lot of people in DC, permanent DC, establishment Republicans, corporate, you name it, we just have to outlast him for another four years. And then he goes in and now JD's 40, but he was 39 at the time and goes, tell you what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna pick a 39-year-old VP who's going to be the heir to America first. When I'm gone, he's gonna be around for a long time. Like, this is the few, I'm going, I'm pushing all my chips in. This is an all-in move on America first. You're not gonna just outlast me for four years.

• 1:20:17Speaker 02

  I'm gonna make this into a permanent, long-term political movement.

• 1:20:20Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:21Speaker 02

  That, to me, was what he did with JD. And JD got put into that situation, pressure cooker, rose to the occasion. And I think he is really, it's been extremely impressive to me. I mean, everything that he has done, I mean, having done a lot of TV, what he would do on the Sunday morning shows, not one or two, but sometimes three on a given day, going in and dismantling each one of those antagonistic hostile hosts. I'm so impressed by what he did and was able to do.

• 1:20:51Tucker Carlson?

  I feel the same way.

• 1:20:52Speaker 02

  Not easy, and he did it so well and rose to the occasion every time, by the way. But you and I, I mean, I've done enough TV, sometimes you have, you're like, ah, that wasn't the greatest. It seemed like every time he went in and did this, I was just like, that is so freaking impressive.

• 1:21:08Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's amazing, I spent my life in TV, I can tell you that, I mean, I don't think that beating someone, a lot of these people are stupid, like beating George Stephanopoulos or Margaret Brennan or something.

• 1:21:17Speaker 02

  Have you come to the same conclusion I have? That if you're a corporate propagandist, you can't be intelligent or smart?

• 1:21:22Tucker Carlson?

  No, you can't.

• 1:21:22Speaker 02

  Because you can't be a free thinker.

• 1:21:23Tucker Carlson?

  And you have no dignity.

• 1:21:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:21:26Tucker Carlson?

  No self-respect.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:21:27Tucker Carlson?

  But what I found amazing, as someone who did it for a living my whole life, was not just that he won the arguments, he's smarter than they are, is that he did something that I could not do, which is remain kind of cheerful.

• 1:21:39Speaker 02

  Calm.

• 1:21:39Tucker Carlson?

  Charming, calm.

• 1:21:40Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:21:41Tucker Carlson?

  Retain, you know, just enormous self-control. And I couldn't do that. I think I could probably beat Margaret Brennan in an argument, I hope.

• 1:21:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:21:49Tucker Carlson?

  But I would come off as like sneering and angry and anti-women or something, you know what I mean?

• 1:21:54Speaker 02

  No, I know.

• 1:21:55Tucker Carlson?

  JD was. Amazing.

• 1:21:56Speaker 02

  Oh, I get.

• 1:21:57Tucker Carlson?

  I could not do that.

• 1:21:58Speaker 02

  No, I couldn't either. I get fired up and kind of get a little snarky and little.

• 1:22:01Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 1:22:02Speaker 02

  Very pugilistic at times.

• 1:22:03Tucker Carlson?

  Me too.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  And he's very calm, dignified, very rational.

• 1:22:06Tucker Carlson?

  Incredible.

• 1:22:07Speaker 02

  Highly intelligent.

• 1:22:07Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:22:08Speaker 02

  But I think that, that to me is, again, going back to what Trump did with him. We're all in on this. A young VP who, hopefully, we're going to have a very successful four years with Trump. He's going to use JD effectively, set up JD in the future, and then all of a sudden, because, going back to what I said earlier, you don't fix what we've been going through for the last 100 years and 18 months. You don't even fix it in four years. I think we need no less than 12 years of political power with the right people in DC to actually bring about the fundamental change necessary. So you have to set yourself up for at least 12 years of political power. Four years of Trump, eight years of JD.

• 1:22:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:44Speaker 02

  And then all of a sudden, you've got, you've got the ability with the right people, doing the right things, to actually bring about the right reform necessary to restore the republic. This is about, but going back to you, and I, I totally agree with you about political power has to be in the right hands, doing the right things to achieve the right ends. But, but this to me is why we have to achieve and retain political power for no less than 12 years in DC.

• 1:23:06Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:23:49Tucker Carlson?

  Switch to PureTalk by going to puretalk.com/tucker. You'll save an additional 50% off your first month. PureTalk, America's wireless company.

• 1:24:12Tucker Carlson?

  Can I just use this opportunity, because I can't control myself, to throw out something that I'm legit concerned about?

• 1:24:17Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:24:18Tucker Carlson?

  Not directly related to Trump or even politics, but I... So we've had all these problems, the labor market and COVID made them much worse, paying people to stay home, so they did. So, a lot of the service industry is being replaced by robots. Like, you check out at the airport, at the kiosk, and you know what I mean?

• 1:24:36Speaker 02

  Automation.

• 1:24:36Tucker Carlson?

  There's no one there. Automation. So, I've watched for the past four years as the left systematically has destroyed law enforcement and order in our cities. And like, who would want to be a cop at this point? It's too hard a job, you don't have the legal protections you had, it's physically dangerous, and everyone hates you, and you don't get paid anything.

• 1:24:53Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:24:53Tucker Carlson?

  So, you're gonna have a massive crisis, you have a massive crisis, in law enforcement, because no one wants to be a cop.

• 1:25:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:25:01Tucker Carlson?

  That void will be filled by technology.

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:25:04Tucker Carlson?

  It'll be filled by drones.

• 1:25:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:05Tucker Carlson?

  And it'll be filled by other technology. It'll be, basically, replaced by a tech surveillance state.

• 1:25:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:25:14Tucker Carlson?

  That will make civil liberties absolutely impossible. You can't have civil liberties.

• 1:25:19Speaker 02

  You cannot.

• 1:25:19Tucker Carlson?

  In a Panomicon, or whatever they call it, in a world where technology knows everything that you're doing.

• 1:25:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:25:27Tucker Carlson?

  And saying, and maybe even thinking. And I don't feel like people are worried enough about that. Like, you could make New York City safe.

• 1:25:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:25:35Tucker Carlson?

  With drones.

• 1:25:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:25:37Tucker Carlson?

  You could prevent any traffic violations whatsoever with robots.

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  But what's behind it? There's nothing neutral in life.

• 1:25:43Tucker Carlson?

  With total control of the population.

• 1:25:46Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:25:46Tucker Carlson?

  Through technology.

• 1:25:47Speaker 02

  So I...

• 1:25:48Tucker Carlson?

  We're moving toward that, I don't hear anybody saying anything about it.

• 1:25:50Speaker 02

  I remember having a conversation with the head of a tech company, pretty prominent one, Molly Hemingway was there, with me, talking about the algorithms and how biased they were.

• 1:25:58Tucker Carlson?

  Man, is she a smart chick.

• 1:25:59Speaker 02

  She's very smart.

• 1:26:00Tucker Carlson?

  And a great person.

• 1:26:01Speaker 02

  One of my favorite people in DC.

• 1:26:02Tucker Carlson?

  Me too, I totally agree.

• 1:26:03Speaker 02

  And, we were sitting there talking with this person, and he goes, "No, algorithms are neutral." Afterwards, I looked at her, I was like, "He just lied to us."

• 1:26:12Tucker Carlson?

  Nothing is neutral.

• 1:26:13Speaker 02

  Nothing's neutral in life. That, to me, is one of the things that I think is the greatest...

• 1:26:17Tucker Carlson?

  It's neutral.

• 1:26:18Speaker 02

  There's nothing...

• 1:26:18Tucker Carlson?

  Like, science! It's neutral! Take the COVID back!

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  So, that's, that, to me, is, there's nothing neutral in life, at all. And so, the, whatever, whatever influence is going behind the AI and the technology...

• 1:26:33Speaker 02

  Will be biased in one direction or another. And then you have a situation of who's controlling the controllers. Who controls that technology? What is their end goal? What do they believe about human rights? What do they believe about civil liberties? What do they believe about basic freedom? I'm concerned about the whole AI singularity.

• 1:26:50Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, of course.

• 1:26:51Speaker 02

  This to me, um, the Sunsoft Bank guy, Soon. He spent tens of, when he announces you're gonna spend a hundred billion to create jobs here in America, I'm like, please go away. I don't want you anywhere near this country. He has spent tens of billions of dollars trying to advance and accelerate singularity, in which AI is really truly doing the governing of this world. And we lose a lot of our, hu- humans are not running the world. It's singularity, it's AI, it's, it's all this technology that's actually doing it, because they'll do it better.

• 1:27:22Tucker Carlson?

  It defeats sovereignty and free will and therefore humanity.

• 1:27:25Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying. It completely annihilates the idea of, of humanity. And this is the guy that's been doing it. So I think this to me is, I know Elon has said some things that, you know, we should, we need to have a conversation about AI. I don't think we're having a deeper, we need to have a deeper conversation about AI.

• 1:27:40Tucker Carlson?

  But we won't.

• 1:27:40Speaker 02

  Singularity and where we're actually headed and what do we want our future to look like?

• 1:27:43Tucker Carlson?

  You can't introduce any massive disruptive change really against the will of the population. You need consent. And the only way you get consent is by terrifying them and making them feel like your solution, while imperfect, is better than what they have.

• 1:28:00Speaker 02

  We're not giving them the truth, but keeping them ignorant.

• 1:28:02Tucker Carlson?

  Create, what I'm saying is you create chaos. You destroy your cities.

• 1:28:06Speaker 02

  State of fear.

• 1:28:07Tucker Carlson?

  You create a state of fear. You do to people with crime and immigration what COVID did.

• 1:28:14Speaker 02

  So Michael Crichton.

• 1:28:15Tucker Carlson?

  So they'll accept anything.

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, Michael Crichton wrote a great book, State of Fear. I actually cite him in the book, in which he's talking about the, the, the political science of global warming. And how it's, it, it puts people in the perpetual state of fear to achieve the certain political goals of, of people, what they want to achieve. And, but the whole idea of keeping people in a perpetual state of fear to manipulate them into getting what these people want to achieve the future they want, which might or might not be typically not beneficial to the rest of the people. But it's fear. It's a tactic of fear, like COVID's gonna kill you all. So you should stay inside your house and wear masks and be six feet apart, which was all made up, by the way.

• 1:28:51Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:28:52Speaker 02

  Which isn't that funny where they say, "Trust the science." And then they go, "Well, yeah, men can be women, women, men." But you only trust the science when we say what science is. Science is what we say it is. But in that situation, it's not.

• 1:29:05Speaker 02

  The intellectual incoherence of the left drives me nuts. But that's what happens when you kind of...

• 1:29:11Speaker 02

  When you cut the cord to the transcended, this idea of a transcendent creator and natural inherent rights and something above and beyond is infinite. And then you all just devolve into this theater of the absurd because whatever you say at the moment is right. If there's no absolute, society becomes absolute. So whatever society says in that moment becomes absolute, so men can be women and women, men. And you just make it up as you go along. And that's why I think kind of some of the stuff is being exposed. Fauci, what, six feet? Well, you just made that up. Vaccine wasn't a vaccine. I remember being castigated on a certain network that I think people would have been surprised for saying that I thought the shot at best was a therapeutic shot. And you would have thought I shot somebody's dog.

• 1:29:50Tucker Carlson?

  Who castigated you?

• 1:29:52Speaker 02

  You know, some network that would have been surprising for people?

• 1:29:57Tucker Carlson?

  The network that was requiring vaccines, COVID vaccines for their employees, you mean?

• 1:30:02Speaker 02

  A lot of people were. Newsmax, by the way, was.

• 1:30:05Tucker Carlson?

  Nothing is faker than Newsmax. Sorry.

• 1:30:08Speaker 02

  I have to tell you, I think the COVID tests was a test that many people failed on the conservative side of things because they believed the lies told by the so-called experts. It was a test. They failed miserably. And I actually got texts from people a couple of weeks in when I realized this is not... I have real questions here. I don't think this is what people cracking it up to be.

• 1:30:39Speaker 02

  And they were texting me, "What's up with all your boomer tweets? What's going on here? Like, this is serious stuff." I said, "Why do you accept blindly that the CDC and the NIH are suddenly pure as driven snow? When over the last several years, we've seen the DOJ and the FBI and other parts of this state be weaponized against and used for political purposes? And now suddenly, different branch of the same tree is somehow pure as driven snow?" Like, I'm sorry, I just think in my... You know, if you think through this in a reasonable, rational way, I think you should really strongly question anything that's coming out of the CDC and the NIH or anything else, because I think there's a certain political element to what they're actually pushing.

• 1:31:20Speaker 02

  And I think that's how you had like, I was kind of stunned when so many conservatives fell for it. Like, why can't you just step back and go, this is heavily politicized. This is probably heavily politicized. I'm not sure, I don't trust them, so why should I trust, I don't trust them either.

• 1:31:37Speaker 02

  I've told, I'm, so I, this is another thing that I think we need to start really emphasizing with a lot of, a lot of us, I tell my kids-

• 1:31:44Tucker Carlson?

  Like, think for yourself?

• 1:31:45Speaker 02

  I tell my kids all the time, question everything.

• 1:31:48Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:49Speaker 02

  Except for me, I'm your benevolent dictator.

• 1:31:51Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you're the patriarch.

• 1:31:52Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:31:53Tucker Carlson?

  No questioning the patriarch.

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  There's no question.

• 1:31:54Tucker Carlson?

  There's no question, yes.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  But that's how you get to the truth. You have to question everything to actually get to the truth of what is, and don't accept something on its face value.

• 1:32:04Tucker Carlson?

  Why should I take orders from anyone who pushed the vax? Ever, again?

• 1:32:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:09Tucker Carlson?

  Is that fair? I mean, I don't, that seems like a pretty just simple-

• 1:32:12Speaker 02

  I just, I'm just gonna, I don't believe you. I'm sorry, I don't believe you, until you can actually prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what you're telling me is true, I don't believe you. And I think that should be our entire approach to all the government right now.

• 1:32:23Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, this is why the Bobby Kennedy nomination is essential. It's like, whatever you think of Bobby Kennedy, I love Bobby Kennedy, but-

• 1:32:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:32:30Tucker Carlson?

  Don't agree with him on everything, of course, but Bobby Kennedy was the opposition to that. And he should be rewarded.

• 1:32:37Speaker 02

  Hold of Big Pharma.

• 1:32:41Speaker 02

  I think, I mean, that, that to me is a step in the right direction. Of, of what's going on, not only-

• 1:32:46Tucker Carlson?

  It's just funny that the people who make Xanax, who should be in prison for making Xanax, in my opinion, kills a lot of people, destroys so many lives. Those people are lecturing me about how Bobby Kennedy is bad, you make Xanax?

• 1:32:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:32:58Tucker Carlson?

  And you're telling me Bobby Kennedy is bad?

• 1:33:00Speaker 02

  Who, by the way, also started the opioid crisis, all the things that have gone through Big Pharma over the years.

• 1:33:04Tucker Carlson?

  And opioids are obvious, Xanax is very subtle, everyone's on Xanax. Try to get off Xanax, you know?

• 1:33:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:10Tucker Carlson?

  These people, I, I think they're criminals, that's my personal opinion.

• 1:33:13Speaker 02

  I think, I, I hope that the American people, over the last nine years, especially, everything that's taken place.

• 1:33:21Speaker 02

  Would have a healthy dose of skepticism about anything coming out of our government and our corporate propagandists moving forward and go, I'm not going to accept you at face value until you can prove be verifiable proof of what you're saying. I think that'd be a very healthy approach for us moving forward.

• 1:33:40Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I agree with that completely. So just bottom line it for us, having spent, by the way, when you wrote this book, like, what kind of mood were you in? It must have been, felt pretty dark.

• 1:33:51Speaker 02

  I was, I was in a mood of my rights as a freeborn American and the country I was promised, constitutional republic, government of, by and for the people, has been annihilated, has been destroyed. We have an illusion of it. We are being lectured that somehow our betters, who are these unelected bureaucrats, who are a credentialed idiocracy, somehow are the ones that should be governing us and ruling us. And I wanted to have a conversation, I wanted to start a conversation with the American people with the book of these people do not have your best interests in mind.

• 1:34:33Speaker 02

  They have taken away your birthright as a freeborn American people. They have annihilated the constitutional republic. They have destroyed the machinery of the republic, which is the best protector of your natural inherent rights. This, and they did it intentionally. I mean, the progressives, progressives don't believe in natural inherent rights. They're actually vehemently opposed to a rights-based government.

• 1:34:54Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:34:55Speaker 02

  They, they, they thought that rights do not, I mean, Frank Goodenough, who was really the, one of the guys that structured the administrative state through administrative law, said that an individual does not possess rights from his creator, but from his society. His society is the one that gives an individual his rights. Cause they believed the state should give rights back to the people if it was a benefit to the state. You can't have natural inherent, God-given rights because it becomes a monkey wrench in their progressive idea of the state of salvation, efficiency towards, you know, progress.

• 1:35:29Speaker 02

  All of these things that have taken place and I was just like, we have to have this conversation. And it goes back to what I was saying earlier, we've not had this conversation about who we are as a people, what our birthright is, what our rights are, what our God given rights are, what government should actually look like today. And let's have that conversation and then have the conversation about how we get back to where we started.

• 1:35:51Speaker 02

  I mean, the Constitution is the greatest document, political document the world's ever seen. And it was written by men who are not perfect, by the way, they had their own share faults. They got it, they nailed it. They realized they were imperfect human beings in an imperfect world. They were optimistic realists, though. They realized that God had given rights. They were optimistic that even though we knew they were imperfect human beings who should never have consolidated power, they could form a government that protected those natural God given rights and took none of them away. And it provided for this amazing, small agrarian country, kind of on the edge of that Eurocentric world in the late 1700s, to become, honestly, I would say the greatest nation the world has ever seen. How does that happen? It's not by chance.

• 1:36:34Speaker 02

  It's because these guys knew, they understood human nature, they understood, they fully understood a transcendent creator with natural inherent rights. We're going to create this constitutional republic. We're going to create the greatest amount of freedom as possible for the flourishing of freedom and prosperity. And the progressives completely fundamentally rejected that turn of the 20th century and said, no, we don't believe in that. We don't believe that that has the answers to the 20th century. We believe we should put together this massive bureaucracy filled with these unelected bureaucrats who through applied science will lead us to a greater future, who truly believe in the apotheosis of mankind. They believe that history was on this upward linear progress, that the end of history would be the perfection of mankind. Dead serious. No, so these are some of the poisonous ideas behind what's taking place in this country today.

• 1:37:19Tucker Carlson?

  They're also hilarious ideas. They're like so dumb. They're so dumb.

• 1:37:23Speaker 02

  Rantings of diluted madmen is what I describe in the book of Wildra Wilson and Herbert Crowley and Frank Goodnow and all of these founders of the progress, John Burgess, who by the way, was the founder of political science in America, vehemently rejected a rights-based government. And he's considered the father of political science in America. So we should probably have questions about the whole exercise of political science. So yeah, I was writing this book. And we are called deplorables and irredeemables and disruptive simply because we're asking for a restoration of our rights. We're asking for a restoration of what we had. In some ways, and that's why I consider myself a restorationist, not a conservative.

• 1:38:08Speaker 02

  But going back to what the founders were trying to do during the American Revolution, they were simply asking that we have our rights as Englishmen restored. You have taken them away. We want them restored. And I think we've kind of come to that next, we've kind of come to that same situation today where I am demanding and others are demanding, we want our rights restored. We want our government restored, a constitutional republic restored. We want a government that actually benefits and promotes the interests of the American people on all fronts every day. And we're not treated as an afterthought. We're not treated as the ATM for the ruling class. We're actually treated with the respect that is due us as a freeborn American people.

• 1:38:52Speaker 02

  And my sincere hope is that we actually have enough leaders in DC. I think we've got to start, we're going to need more, with the political courage to understand the stakes and go, we're going to fight for this.

• 1:39:05Tucker Carlson?

  I agree with that strongly, but we're going to have to suffer to get there.

• 1:39:09Speaker 02

  We are. Like I said, I think if, what I think could happen over the next four years, we could be in for one of the more interesting periods in time that makes the last nine years look like a warm-up act. But it's worth it. The fight's worth it.

• 1:39:24Tucker Carlson?

  Ned Ryun, thank you.

• 1:39:26Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:39:27Tucker Carlson?

  Thanks for listening to the Tucker Carlson Show. If you enjoyed it, you can go to TuckerCarlson.com to see everything that we have made. The complete library. TuckerCarlson.com.