Jocko Underground: This is How to be a Dependable Warrior.

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 229. Sitting here with Echo Charles, and we have some questions from the front lines, from the trenches, from where the rubber meets the road. And we have some answers, we have some recommendations, and at a bare minimum, we have some courses of action that you can follow to navigate through these challenging scenarios that you are facing. All right, let's get to it.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  First question. I'm 23 and preparing to pursue a Navy SEAL contract in roughly two years. My goal isn't only to earn a trident, it's to become a dependable warrior, husband, father, teammate, and leader. If you're in my position, what three daily non-negotiables would you build before the Navy ever tested you? And what hard truth do highly motivated candidates usually learn too late? I'm looking for reassurance, I'm not looking for reassurance or shortcuts. I want to be, I want an honest standard I can live by. Thank you.

• 1:02Jocko Willink?

  Um, yeah, you know, unfortunately, there's no formula for being successful in the SEAL pipeline, you know? There's just, it just doesn't exist. There are people who've done nothing to prepare for the pipeline and made it through, and there's people who've done everything to prepare for the pipeline and not made it. I mean, there's people that trained for a decade, you know, like they started training when they were 15 years old or 14 years old, and they trained and they wrestled and they did water polo and they did all the stuff and they were jacked and they could do 200 pull-ups and like all the stuff and they just quit. So me telling you three random non-negotiables would be like me throwing darts with a blindfold

• 1:44Jocko Willink?

  on after I've been spun around in circles, using my left hand, throwing it over my shoulder while it's hanging upside down. It's just irrelevant. It's just, it's just irrelevant. Because what I might tell you would be a good non-negotiable, might be bad for you. It might, might help someone else, but it might hurt you and what might hurt you might be helpful for someone else. And I'm glad that you're not looking for reassurance or shortcuts because there really are not any reassurance or shortcuts, you know, you want to get through. You know, if you, if you're talking about being a dependable warrior, husband, father,

• 2:26Jocko Willink?

  teammate, and leader, well then, take Extreme Ownership of what's going on in your world, be balanced, and have discipline. That's the first three books that I wrote, right? That's Extreme Ownership, Dichotomy of Leadership, and The Discipline Goes Freedom Field Manual. That's why those, that's, that's, that's my, that's my, um, me offering my opinion to the world, right? That's what it is. So, you know, there's no, and by the way, those aren't shortcuts. It's not, it's not easy. You know, you and I just talked before you hit record. It's like, it takes a long time before taking ownership becomes habitual. It takes a long time before being balanced becomes habitual.

• 3:11Jocko Willink?

  It takes a long time before being disciplined becomes habitual. And a lot of times, if you don't pay attention, you'll drift out of all those categories. So, if that's what you're talking about, there's my answer. If it's getting through the system, getting through the, the, um, pipeline, yeah. I mean, run, swim, run, swim, ruck, push-ups, pull-ups, dips, and strengthen your neck, right? Try to do things that you're not good at. If you're not comfortable in the water, spend more time in the water. If you're not comfortable running, spend more time running. You asked this hard truth thing, hard truth, highly motivated candidates.

• 3:54Jocko Willink?

  I would say that the hard truth that people need to face is, if you don't want to be a frogman, then every moment of every day that you have is going to absolutely suck and you won't make it. If you don't want that job, then every moment of every day sucks. It's cold, wet, miserable, tired, stressed, cold, injured, broken, uncomfortable, cold,

• 4:28Jocko Willink?

  chafed, sunburnt, infected, diseased, cold, wet, annoyed, enslaved, belittled, aching, sore, cold, claustrophobic, tense, uneasy, dirty, wet, and cold. That's what the days are. And if, and I liked, everything I just said was fun. I'm not kidding. Like, talk to the guys I went through, talk to Chris Gifford. I was in, I was in Hell Week with him in the same boat crew. Like, we, we were having fun. Did it suck? Yeah, it sucked. It was fun. You know why?

• 5:13Jocko Willink?

  I wanted to be a frogman, more than anything else in the world. Most people don't really want to be a frogman. We got a little saying, everyone wants to be a frogman on a sunny day, and that is the absolute truth. Go down to Coronado on a Friday, 10 o'clock in the morning, some guys out on the beach doing a beach run, frogman, sunny, they're getting a tan. The girls on the beach, Coronado, this is Hotel Del Coronado, girls on the beach are watching, they're, they're, they're, they're looking. They kind of want to clap, you know what I mean? They don't really know how to, what to do. Do you clap for someone? Do you just stare at them? They don't know, but they want to show their appreciation. But instead, they just look there and they gawk.

• 5:56Jocko Willink?

  And if you're watching, the girls that are watching the frogman, you go, well, that's what I want to do. But that's not what being a frogman is. That's a little, little, tiny, tiny, tiny portion of being a frogman. Being a frogman is a hard job. And it sucks if you don't want to do it. So if you really want to be a frogman, you don't need any daily negotiation, non-negotiables. If you don't, if you really want to be a frogman, you're going to be fine. If you don't really want to be a frogman, it doesn't really matter, because you're also going to be fine, you just won't be a frogman. And that's what I got.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  You're right about that stuff that, because it doesn't sound intuitive when you're like, wait, wait, does it suck or is it fun? Right? But you're like, no, no, I can suck and still be fun. If that overarching, like, reason that you're there is like prominent in your head, you know, if you have it in your head. Yeah, I remember, uh, I used to run track, you know? Obviously, that's not like being a Navy SEAL, obviously, but, you know, we all have our Vietnam. But, so track 400 meter run, 400 meter runs for conditioning, also 300 meters too, by the way, and 200 meters, they just suck. That's like the worst, you know? And I remember we had to do 10 of them for training, for a practice. And I'm like, but this is like the worst practice ever, right?

• 7:25Speaker 01

  10 of them. And then you're like dying, right? At the end of like the first one, you're already dying, because it's freaking 400 meters. But then I was thinking to myself, and my coach was super cool. And I remember thinking, bro, this like sucks, this is such a weird dichotomy, how much this sucks, but how fun this is. Because like, yeah, I was with my brothers and my friends and stuff, and like the coach was cool, you know? And it's like physically, this sucks real bad, you know? And the hot sun, you know, it's quiet. But it was like super fun, because fucking, I like track, you know? It's good fun. So, yeah, I can dig it. So, and yes, now I'm remembering back, putting myself back in that position. If I didn't like track and I didn't like the track meets and the whole thing, if I was just doing it for like punishment or something like this, oh yeah, bro, I wouldn't run track. This is dumb.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  It was like, I do not want to be here, not for one second, actually. So I dig it, man, I get it.

• 8:14Jocko Willink?

  And it's, it's really weird, you know, because everybody thinks they want to be a frogman. 100% of people that go to BUDs think they want to be a frogman. Only 20% of them actually want to be. The other 80% don't really want to be. And unfortunately, somehow, they're able to convince themselves externally that they do. But then when they get there, it's, it's, it's a long, cold, wet night. And they don't stay. So, looks like you got some, um, you know, some aspirational goals, so good luck, man. Also, you're 23, you're doing a contract when you're 25, two years from now.

• 8:57Jocko Willink?

  That, I'm not 100% sure why you, why you're waiting, you know? If you're 23, you, you should go. It's, I would say 23 is almost, I think statistically, 23 is kind of the, the, the peak of the bell curve of making it. Younger, like, the younger than that is harder, and then older than that is harder. I think that might be the peak, like, success rate is like 23. Because 24, 25, because if you're going when you're 25 now. That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast.

• 9:37Jocko Willink?

  So if you want to continue to listen, go to jacood underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms, so we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is, free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors, and we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now, where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us.

• 10:21Jocko Willink?

  So thank you, it's jacood underground.com. It costs $8.18 a month, and if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you, just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.