#2332 - Oz Pearlman

Oz Pearlman is an entertainer, mentalist, and endurance runner. www.ozpearlman.com Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up at https://draftkings.com using my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Max. $300 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets if your bet wins. Minimum minus 500 odds required. Bonus Bets expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 6/22/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:14Speaker 02

  Oh, yep. Surreal. Dude, you've only been here for 20 minutes, you already freaked me out. Joe's freaked out. And I'm freaked out for the fact that you're the first guy that's ever come here that ran a marathon. Yeah. Before you got here. You know, wanted to clear my mind, it's a big day. How long did it take you to run it? You gotta check online, I don't know, I think it was like 3 hours 25 minutes, 3:30, something like that. Wow, that's a good time for casual... Went kinda southeast, thunderstorming in Austin, Texas, and then looped around, went back, got some work done. I always do phone calls while I'm running. How often do you run, you said you ran 27 miles this morning? I think so, I don't know, I just, I turned around, I got it done, I need to get ready for this shower, but yeah. Is that a normal thing for you to do? Very normal. Wow, that's crazy.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  That's a lot of distance, man. You know, there was like a sweet spot, pre having as many kids and more family constraints and work and now life is busy, but where I do 20 miles every day. That's crazy. Yeah. Like, what's the longest you've run? 153 miles. Wow, how long did it take you to do that? 33 hours, Spartathlon in Greece, epic. It's in Greece? Oh, it's crazy, man, you run from Athens to Sparta. This race is amazing. You ever seen the 300 with Dr. Butler? Sure. So that's the story. A couple of crazy dudes in the 80s decided that they're gonna recreate where he ran, Fidipides, to deliver the message. Cause in that movie, you remember 300 Spartans defended against the Persian masses, and they frame it as the difference

• 1:43Speaker 02

  between us having civilization and not. Had those 300 guys not died while they assembled an army and he delivered that message to King Leonidas, so when you finish this race, if you finish, it's one of the hardest races in the world. Like, there's Badwater, you know Goggins, mutual buddy of ours, but there's races they say are the hardest. This one kicked my butt. Is it because of the elevation? What is it? It's cause Europe does not believe in ice, so there's nothing cold for the first 50 miles. You're hot and then the cutoffs are much stricter. So at 50 miles, you have to be done, you gotta fact check this, but nine or 10 hours. So you have to finish 153 miles in under 36 hours. You need to be running at all times. You can't walk for two hours and start throwing up, which I,

• 2:26Speaker 02

  I was puking for eight hours straight. The first time I did it. Still excuses. This is me just bitching. I should have finished that year. I wasn't mentally tough, but a hundred percent that year I just didn't have it mentally. And the next year I came back ready to die. I was like, I'm going to finish this race. Yeah. There was a guy in the middle of the night, I won't kid you, who looked at me and he says to me, there it is. He goes to me with like crazy eyes and I've already given up in my mind. You know, you know, like they call it DNFing, did not finish in ultras. I already wrote the speech of like, I'm going to tell my friends I learned from the, you know, all that, all that stuff of like, I already gave up in my mind. And I saw this guy at my, I don't know, 72, middle of the night, who looks at me with these crazy eyes. I'll never forget his looks, crazy eyes,

• 3:09Speaker 02

  like that, but a hundred times more and goes, you're going to give up? He goes, if you can't run, you walk. You can't walk, you crawl. You never ever. And I was like, yo, man, this guy needs to chill out right now because I've already quit in my mind. But I channeled that guy when I came back the next year and it was that, it was, I'm going to the hospital and you're not putting IV, I'm going to finish this race. And I came back the next year mentally, like there's no way I'm not finishing.

• 3:32Joe Rogan?

  Did you do anything different in preparation?

• 3:36Speaker 02

  Listen, it, it, that game, it's all mental. Anyone who tells you otherwise, physical's meaningless at that point. Physical's meaningless in most points, to be honest. There were guys who I saw when I quit, it was, you know, 2am who were slower than me. They were older than me. Every objective measure, I should have beat them, but they mentally finished. The next morning I got a night's sleep, woke up, watched them, ate lunch and saw them finish. I was like, I was crying. I, I couldn't believe the emotions of this guy finished, who was two hours behind me when I quit. And I learned that day, it's mental, 100%. The mindset is when you get there, you know if you're finishing at the start.

• 4:10Joe Rogan?

  So did it haunt you that you didn't finish?

• 4:12Speaker 02

  Haunted me every day.

• 4:13Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Haunted.

• 4:15Joe Rogan?

  Like what you did is really hard, but you didn't.

• 4:17Speaker 02

  No, that's bullshit hard. It was, I should have finished.

• 4:19Joe Rogan?

  How did you get?

• 4:20Speaker 02

  I, I got halfway.

• 4:22Joe Rogan?

  So it's pretty hard.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  No.

• 4:23Joe Rogan?

  Seventy-five miles?

• 4:25Speaker 02

  This, I quit when it was convenient, because I got to an aid station and I'm like, oh, you know, I got thirty minutes on the, I already decided in my mind I was quitting.

• 4:31Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  But hold on, I gotta pause, because I walked in here and I told you,

• 4:35Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  Before we start, I have something for you.

• 4:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Right? People say, can I read minds? I can't read minds. I read people.

• 4:40Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  This envelope, if they can't see it and they're listening, your logo sealed.

• 4:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  This is your future.

• 4:47Joe Rogan?

  My future?

• 4:47Speaker 02

  This is your future. I'm not psychic, I'm not supernatural, but I assure you, I want you to hold this from now until the end of the episode.

• 4:54Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  That's when we open it.

• 4:55Joe Rogan?

  I don't even know if I want to know my future.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  No, no, this is all good stuff. Live to a hundred twenty. Joe's gonna be a two-term president, you know, you know.

• 5:02Joe Rogan?

  Shut the fuck up, that's not good. I don't want that job.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  You take it before we even start.

• 5:07Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  And at the end, we open it. So nobody skips this episode. You buckle up for the ending.

• 5:11Joe Rogan?

  I'm, I'm here. People will just fast forward.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  They'll fast forward, they'll miss all the good stuff in the middle.

• 5:15Joe Rogan?

  The quitters.

• 5:16Speaker 02

  Quitters. The people who did not finish Spartathlon.

• 5:22Joe Rogan?

  That's, so that's insanely impressive, though, that you run that much. When did you start doing this?

• 5:27Speaker 02

  My sister ran a marathon, shout out to my older sister, and there's a little bit of sibling rivalry. She's eight years old, I have twin sisters. And do you remember when marathoning became like commonplace?

• 5:37Joe Rogan?

  Before you say anything, I have to shout out to my sister, she, because she got upset that I didn't shout her out before, because she ran Burt Kreischer's 5K. She's like, I can't believe you didn't shout me out. Sorry, sweetie.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  Well played, well played.

• 5:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, she's the best.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  They all are, right? So, so my sister ran it, and, and everyone, at a certain point, marathoning became like a thing. Do you remember when Oprah ran one? And then everyone's like, I'm running a marathon.

• 5:59Joe Rogan?

  I didn't pay attention.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, but there was like a moment where the zeitgeist, everyone started running marathons. This was before that.

• 6:05Joe Rogan?

  I believe you.

• 6:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:06Joe Rogan?

  But I wasn't tuned in to that frequency.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  I was, I, when my sister said she's running twenty-six point two miles, if she had told me, this is not that she's not fit, she was like a collegiate D1 athlete, swimmer. I'm like, what do you, if she had said, I'm going to the moon, it would have been equal of like, what do you mean, you're running a marathon? And so when she did it, I immediately that day signed up for a marathon, just to be like, no, screw that, I'm not, I'm not not doing this.

• 6:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  And I was working on Wall Street, I was kind of getting fat and lazy, happy hours. And I, I go, this is all there is? Like, I'm just gonna keep, I'm making money, don't get me wrong, I'm blessed. But I got, I gotta have something that fires me up. That's my instinct. And so I signed up for a marathon.

• 6:42Joe Rogan?

  What year was this?

• 6:44Speaker 02

  2004.

• 6:45Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  And then I did one Philly marathon, you know, the Rocky, the whole thing. And at mile 23, I start, I stop and I, I'm like crying. I, again, this is a common theme. I've cried like twice in my life. My wife will ask, say, but I was wrecked. I was gonna quit. I see two dudes walking because I'm going decently fast at this point. I've trained terribly. I see two dudes walking about a hundred yards ahead of me and I go misery loves company. I'm gonna walk up and I'm, I'm gonna catch them, but they're walking the same speed as me. So I decide, screw it. I'm gonna run to them. I run, I get about halfway there. Do you know what they do? They looked at each other and they started running. And I literally screamed at them. I go, fuck you. Like I, and I got fired up and I learned that day anger is a great like in, in, in incentive.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  It's like something to fire up. And I got so pissed off that my blood pressure, I ran the rest of the race.

• 7:35Joe Rogan?

  You know, Goggins takes all of his haters comments.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:38Joe Rogan?

  And he records them and then plays it back to him while he runs.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Oh, I know David well. I've known David going on like 15 years, man. Before Goggins became Goggins, I've seen the whole come up.

• 7:48Joe Rogan?

  How'd you meet him?

• 7:49Speaker 02

  So we trained for ultra marathons together. He used to live in New York City.

• 7:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  And we'd go out there and you know, he's shirtless and this is before now, man, he can't go anywhere. He's just, it's like next level.

• 8:00Joe Rogan?

  He still runs on the street.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  He runs, but man, he's, he's like, that's such a fame. That's, you know, we've talked about, but it's, he's, he's, I mean, he's inspired countless millions.

• 8:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, for sure.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  But you see, I don't know what your version is, but like somebody sees me, I just get like a, oh, hey, love what you do. That's it. You know, maybe a selfie. That's it. Occasionally some drunk asshole's like, read my mind right now. And I'm like, all right, all right, buddy. I'll do it. I'll do it. You know, I don't want to leave somebody behind, but his is someone comes up and you have to, you changed my life. Like I didn't kill myself or my brother. Like that's, that's a religious level fervor.

• 8:32Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm. Yeah, no, for sure. I've been, I've been around him when I've seen it happen. Yeah. Yeah, he runs on the street. He was running on the street in Vegas. My wife, it was in the car. She rolled down the window and yelled out, stay hard.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Second time he's ever heard that, right? Who's gonna carry the boat?

• 8:47Joe Rogan?

  That's all he hears all day long is Philly yelled, stay hard.

• 8:52Joe Rogan?

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• 11:20Speaker 02

  The memes that people have put together are just those videos. And he's got a great sense of humor, which people don't realize. He's got a great sense of humor.

• 11:27Joe Rogan?

  He's a fun dude.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  He's a really fun guy, man. Love that guy.

• 11:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's a fun dude. He's just very fucking serious.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:33Joe Rogan?

  About pushing himself. Did you see the video of him and Israel Adesanya?

• 11:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was crazy.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:40Joe Rogan?

  Israel Adesanya, world-class athlete, world championship fighter.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:44Joe Rogan?

  Cannot compete, can't keep up with this 50-year-old man.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  Who was the other one? Was it John Jones? Who was the other one he trained?

• 11:50Joe Rogan?

  Tony Ferguson.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  Tony, Tony, who's like cardio is through the roof. I mean, Tonyo's like... That guy, five rounds, it's just insane. Never, never gases out.

• 11:58Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, he might have overtrained.

• 12:00Joe Rogan?

  He might have.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  Goggins ran through the washer right there.

• 12:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, it would have been interesting if he got ahold of Tony when Tony was in his prime. You know, he got ahold of Tony when Tony was at the end of his career, essentially.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:11Joe Rogan?

  You know.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, that's always it, right? Judge a fighter at the prime.

• 12:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, yeah, absolutely. And with fighters, you know, there's just, especially natural fighters that aren't taking any steroids or anything. When it gets to a certain point in time, the game is over. Just, that's just how it is.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  Right? Time is undefeated.

• 12:27Joe Rogan?

  Time's undefeated. But fucking Goggins, almost 50, still out there doing it.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  And has been injured so many times.

• 12:35Joe Rogan?

  Not just injured. People need to understand the mental strength. And we've talked about on the podcast before, we showed his x-rays.

• 12:41Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 12:41Joe Rogan?

  The work that he's had done on his knees. I mean, it's all insane. It's insane. They do experimental stuff on his knees.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:47Joe Rogan?

  His knees are destroyed.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  I mean, they must be.

• 12:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're destroyed. They're complete bone-on-bone, and he just keeps running on them.

• 12:55Joe Rogan?

  It's just like, okay.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  He cross-trains, though. I mean, the dude, like, the pull-up record, his hands. Cam Haynes son, right? True. I just saw that. Man, what a stud that kid is. I've been watching.

• 13:05Joe Rogan?

  Chip off the old block.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  I follow him. He is, I've never met him, but man, he's...

• 13:08Joe Rogan?

  He's great.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  That consistency and that putting that together and, uh, yeah, very impressive. I don't know, like, I...

• 13:14Joe Rogan?

  I've known him since he was a kid, so to me, it's fun to watch him become a man and then become this beast.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Beast.

• 13:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, he did, I think it was, was it 9,000 chin-ups in 24 hours or 10,000?

• 13:27Speaker 02

  I think it was more.

• 13:27Joe Rogan?

  9,000 was the record.

• 13:28Speaker 00

  I think he stopped at 10,001 and, right, I'm good.

• 13:30Joe Rogan?

  9,000 was the record, and he got to 10,000. So he broke the record first, then some cat in Australia broke the record, beat his record, and then he just demolished that guy's record.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  And then I saw his thing, which was a flex, which reminded me of something I did, which was like one of the highlight moments of my running career, which is, he goes, "I got another personal best in the same week at a marathon." So he ran, so I one time did two marathons a week apart, like six days apart. I did New Jersey Marathon, I won it. And then the next week I did Long Island Marathon and I got clipped by some college runner who beat me in the last like quarter of a mile.

• 14:03Joe Rogan?

  Damn, you won a marathon?

• 14:04Speaker 02

  I won that one four times in a row, yeah.

• 14:06Joe Rogan?

  That's insane. What's the time?

• 14:08Speaker 02

  My fast time's a 2:23.

• 14:10Joe Rogan?

  Two hours and 23 minutes for a fucking marathon?

• 14:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love Goggins, but every race we've run against each other, I beat him.

• 14:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, you have two knees. That's insane. That's, that's world class, man.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  I mean, it's like, it's like a fast for a weekend warrior.

• 14:26Joe Rogan?

  Two hours and 23 minutes?

• 14:28Speaker 02

  One year at the New York City Marathon, I want to, I want to remember this, I got 30th place, but at my shows I tell people I was the fastest Jew. That's all that mattered. That's all, fastest Jew, all that mattered.

• 14:39Joe Rogan?

  That's super impressive that you win marathons.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  Well, I won that one and then six days later, six or seven, I did this other one and I got beat by this kid who was like 22, I don't care how old I was, 30s. And he beat me and he fell and collapsed at the finish. And I'm like, again, I'm pretty fresh. And he goes, oh my God, man. He goes, is that your personal best? And I'll never forget looking in his eyes and this guy's wrecked. And I go, bro, that's not my personal best this week. And it was just, it was just the most fulfilling thing to say for not having won, but I'd run literally a week earlier faster. So I, oh, that was a great moment.

• 15:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but he beat you.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  He did beat me, true. First loser.

• 15:13Joe Rogan?

  Weird flex.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:15Joe Rogan?

  It's a weird flex. So you were a stockbroker?

• 15:18Speaker 02

  I wasn't technically a stockbroker. I worked on Wall Street, but I did tech. So I went to school for electrical engineering and then worked like, I don't know, the tech guys who supported the iBankers.

• 15:28Joe Rogan?

  Okay. And then how did you get involved in this mentalist thing?

• 15:32Speaker 02

  This mentalist thing, right? What a weird thing. So when I was a teenager, I started doing magic tricks. So I saw a guy on a cruise ship and I, I'd never seen really a magician. I'd never, I wasn't into it, didn't know about it, didn't have a kid's party magician when I was a kid. And I was obsessed. Literally, I was on a cruise, I followed this guy around, the cruise ship. It was a little bit stalker-esque and there's not that many places to hide if you're a grown man. So I was finding this guy everywhere to just see more tricks. And I got back home and I bought every Every book I could at Borders, I went to the library. I was obsessive. I'm kind of those types of people who I don't do anything 80%, 90%. Given the running today, it's like 120%.

• 16:10Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  And that was the thing for about, I don't know, 20 years. It was more I was doing magic. I was always doing magic on the side. I paid for college doing magic.

• 16:18Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 16:18Speaker 02

  Run a couple of businesses, yeah.

• 16:19Joe Rogan?

  What did you do? Like, do shows?

• 16:21Speaker 02

  So I graduated high school when I was 16. Um, I like skipped a grade, all this, and then my folks got divorced, long story, and uh, they moved back to Israel. I was born in Israel, so separately moved back to Israel. So I was a bit of a, I guess, I don't know, an adult, like I had nobody supporting me. So when I went to college, I turned 17, I had to pay all the bills.

• 16:38Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 16:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I, I had, I was doing magic at restaurants. I've been doing magic at restaurants for like 30 years. And that's where I learned how to read people, just how to go up to a table of people who were like, who's this twerp? Like, who's this nerdy kid with braces? Like, what are you doing here? Get out of here. And how do you win them over quickly?

• 16:54Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  And that's honestly the biggest skill, is how do you, in sales, read people effectively?

• 17:00Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Right? That, that's what I'm selling. I'm selling the thought of reading your mind.

• 17:04Joe Rogan?

  Now, did you learn the techniques from books? Did you take classes?

• 17:08Speaker 02

  No classes. Books and videos, did magic, and so mentalism is kind of a field. Uh, like you had David Blaine in here, right?

• 17:17Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  Legend.

• 17:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  Man, growing up, like, icon. So, magic tricks are different because magic is, there's sleight of hand, right? So you're deceiving your eye by making you look at the wrong place at the right time, when I do a move. And I can practice that move over and over and over until I get it perfect, so that when I perform for you, it works, right?

• 17:38Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  Stand-up comedy, the most pure art form, right? You and a mic, that's it. Mine is the closest. Magic, you have props. Mentalism, there's no props.

• 17:47Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:47Speaker 02

  Like, I don't need you to pick a card anymore. I don't need it.

• 17:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  I can just tell you, think of a card, and that's where I go with it. So now you start knowing how people think, and you, in essence, reverse engineer the human mind. It's kind of like magic of the mind. And so that's where it kind of went from magic, and I kept doing more of the mentalism, more of it. But mentalism has a very steep learning curve. If you go do an open mic and you suck, how many people get to the level of getting better, getting better, putting in the work? Takes 10 years to be funny for most people, right? Uh, there's a couple of phenoms, but that's a different story. So most mentalists, they drop off because I'm just gonna go back to magic tricks. This works every time. Hmm, so it's more difficult to learn? Way more difficult. Is it sheltered? Like, is the material on it difficult to find?

• 18:34Speaker 02

  It's, I think it's more that people don't have the thick skin. Like, the same way you said the quitting mentality where I came back a year later. Most people won't improve because you can't practice mentalism in front of a mirror. You can practice magic. So when I do the trick on you and it's a card trick, no offense to magic, it's great, but what we're talking about is a much higher level. I can't get it right, and the first few times you do it, the first hundred times, you eat, you know, you eat shit, like, you're gonna get it wrong, and most people don't wanna do that. Ah. Watch, watch, let's try something fun. Okay. Okay? How about this? If I were to ask you, how long you been married? Sixteen years? Okay, nail that question, well, well played. Thank you. You got it. Your sister's happy, your wife's happy. If I asked you, would your wife know your social security number? No.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  She doesn't know it? No. So, is there any way in the world I could know your social security number? I don't think so. Right, you say I'm a stalker, who knows? Yeah, you could get the information. Maybe. Online. Agreed, agreed. I'm skeptical, you're skeptical. Well, especially someone famous. Yeah, fully, plus you can't change that, so I'm not gonna do that to you. Data dumps, yeah. If I told you right now to make up a random number, I'd say, get out your calculator, I'd love that, and you add it up and you do a random number. You know, I'm, screw calcu-, I want it to be spontaneous. Would your wife know your ATM PIN code? No? No. Lie to me. Do not tell me your real ATM PIN code. Okay. Obviously, unless you want to. Make up a fake four-digit number off the top of your head, what feels to you utterly spontaneous.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  When I say go, one, two, three, four-digit code, random, go. Okay. Say it. Twenty twenty. Twenty twenty, okay. So you ask me, how do I do what I do? I'm gonna write down twenty twenty. Okay.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  It's weird, but statistically, men will lie bigger, women smaller. Men like to lie by saying things are bigger, right, no shocker. Okay. So I don't think, I would tell you right off the jump for me, that that means that your first number, you don't have to say anything yet, I wrote twenty twenty, is smaller. That's what most people do when they're rushed. If I had given you five minutes, you would've done this different. No, I wouldn't have. No, you would've. Why would I? Because you would've thought about it, and then people go down a different path. Nope. No? Nope. Okay, worked out for me either way. You'll be honest if I'm right. Okay.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  I got a hit, which means it's a zero or one. I think the first number of your code's a one, isn't it, your real PIN code?

• 20:55Joe Rogan?

  My ATM PIN code? Why would I tell you that on the air?

• 20:59Speaker 02

  Should I, should I only show this to you?

• 21:01Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Only show it to you?

• 21:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Can we acquiesce that the first number I got was correct?

• 21:05Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 21:06Speaker 02

  Okay. Now, you did repetition. So, I like the fact when people always say to me it's fake when they watch the videos. They're like, "You must have set up..." Joe doesn't even want this to happen right now. He had no idea this was gonna happen. You used two numbers in repeats. What that means is you probably did the same thing. You also didn't use any of the same numbers. I know there's not a 2, a 0, or a 2 in it. I don't think so either.

• 21:25Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  And I'm watching you while I say it. You put the hand up. You might as well have said yes to me out loud, so now I know. Think of the second number.

• 21:33Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 21:34Speaker 02

  Third number, fourth number.

• 21:35Joe Rogan?

  Got it.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  Every time you did it, it's a data point.

• 21:38Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  I'm only gonna ask you one more question. I'm not looking for answers. The last number's the biggest, isn't it?

• 21:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm showing this to you. Is there a camera behind me? I don't wanna make sure. I'm only gonna show it to you.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  It's not 2020. How'd I do, Joe? Is that your ATM PIN code?

• 21:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:02Joe Rogan?

  That's weird.

• 22:05Joe Rogan?

  I'm skeptical because I've got that PIN code in the mail. You know?

• 22:11Speaker 02

  He's calling his bank right now and be like, "Joe, do you know this? Has this guy been playing the long game?"

• 22:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't like that. It's not 1950 anymore, people. We know our food is different. Highly processed and less nutritious. Industrial farming practices often strip nutrients from the soil and can deplete the nutrients available for us from food. Even the healthiest diets can have nutrient gaps. But AG1 Next Gen helps fill those gaps. It's a more-in-one daily health drink to give your body the nutrients that you can't get from food alone, especially in today's day and age. AG1 Next Gen is clinically backed, rigorously tested, and trusted by athletes and experts. I've been partnering with AG1 for so long because they really do the work to help you feel a difference in your health.

• 22:56Joe Rogan?

  If you wanna feel the difference and fill your nutrient gaps, subscribe today to try their newest clinically-backed formula, AG1. AG1 Next Gen. You'll also get a bunch of other free stuff like a bottle of D3 plus K2 and five of the upgraded travel packs with your first subscription. Just go to drinkag1.com/joerogan. One scoop a day, your body will thank you again. That's drinkag1.com/joerogan. Have you ever done that to people and then withdrawn money?

• 23:29Speaker 02

  No comment.

• 23:30Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. Interesting.

• 23:32Speaker 02

  I'm trying to avoid criminal, yeah, so I want everyone to know that was correct, right? That is, you went 2020.

• 23:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was correct.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  Your wife of 16 years doesn't know it, now I do.

• 23:40Joe Rogan?

  It's 2020 not, it's just because that's the year I moved here. It wasn't like...

• 23:45Speaker 02

  I think, I know you think that's the case.

• 23:46Joe Rogan?

  No, that's 100% the case. That's exactly what it is. What do you mean, you know, I think that's the case? You said a four-digit number and I was like, oh, the date I moved here.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:57Joe Rogan?

  2020, perfect.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  I hear you.

• 24:01Joe Rogan?

  You don't believe me.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  It's not that I don't believe you, it's that we got layers. So like, we're peeling through and I know why you think you picked it. And I know that you think you gave me no information, but I'm telling you that, good luck finding out, how in the world could I have found out your ATM PIN code? You said, nobody knows this. That informed what I did. So had you thought of a different number with your social security, you wouldn't have said 2020.

• 24:22Joe Rogan?

  But that ATM PIN code is one that was assigned to me by the bank and I never changed it.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 24:28Joe Rogan?

  So I didn't pick it.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  That's even better, isn't it? Had you picked it, I could have looked this up. That's actually to me more of a gold standard.

• 24:35Joe Rogan?

  No, because you could get it from the bank, because the bank is the one that fucking sent it to me.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  I guess, man, if I have broken into your bank account, there are bigger things at play than this podcast, I feel.

• 24:46Joe Rogan?

  I don't keep a lot of money in that account.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  Watch this, watch this. How many UFC fights do you think you've seen in person or commentated?

• 24:54Joe Rogan?

  Boy, I don't even know. I really don't know.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  Well, what UFC number are we on?

• 25:00Joe Rogan?

  UFC 2000, 2, what is it? 200...

• 25:06Joe Rogan?

  234 or something? What is it at now? 235 is the next one?

• 25:11Speaker 02

  But each fight has an undercard. You got the, you got the title fight.

• 25:14Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes as many as 15 fights.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  Right?

• 25:17Joe Rogan?

  Or as few.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  3, 3, 316.

• 25:20Joe Rogan?

  What is it?

• 25:20Speaker 00

  316.

• 25:22Joe Rogan?

  UFC 316 is now?

• 25:23Speaker 00

  Coming up on June 7th.

• 25:24Joe Rogan?

  What did I say? 2?

• 25:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was thinking 2 for a second.

• 25:26Joe Rogan?

  Why did I say 2?

• 25:27Speaker 00

  Didn't we have 300?

• 25:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you know what I'm thinking? I'm confusing podcast numbers. We're in the 2000s.

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, you're a lot of podcasts.

• 25:33Joe Rogan?

  UFC, yeah, that's, so it's UFC 3 what?

• 25:36Speaker 00

  316?

• 25:37Joe Rogan?

  316.

• 25:37Speaker 00

  10 fights per?

• 25:38Joe Rogan?

  So, I haven't been on all those cards. Um, but I started commentary wise in 2021. And, uh, just as a post-fight interviewer in 97. So 97, I did it for two years, not as many shows. And then from 2001,

• 26:00Joe Rogan?

  I used to do 20 a year. I used to do a lot. I was doing most of them. I would say thousands of fights.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  Thousands, right?

• 26:09Joe Rogan?

  Probably.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Watch this, because I love that, I like the way you think and I like that you're skeptical, because I'm a huge skeptic. I'm always the one calling BS on this.

• 26:16Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  Right? That's how I, that's how I started doing it. If you think through all your fights and you go back in time, and they need to know, this is spontaneous, this is impulsive. You have not thought of this before this moment, have you?

• 26:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  I want you to stop and start thinking of different fighters. Past or present.

• 26:32Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  Could be somebody huge, could be a legendary figure, could be somebody more under the radar.

• 26:37Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Maybe you've had them on the podcast, maybe you haven't. Watch. Make sure you think I'm not guiding you. The same way you said 2020, you go, I said that, I would have said that no matter what. Let someone jump into your mind right now that you've definitely seen one of his, I guess, or her fights.

• 26:53Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  Bam. I'm not guessing it, I don't care. Tell us. Was it a specific fight you saw this person in? Or you're just seeing the fighter?

• 27:00Joe Rogan?

  Just seeing the fighter.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  No, no. Go to a specific fight of that person. Try to like, contextualize it.

• 27:13Speaker 02

  Or change to a different fighter right now if you feel like you need to.

• 27:16Joe Rogan?

  Maybe, let me think, let me think.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  See, Joe's not gonna wanna change, but now that I said that...

• 27:21Joe Rogan?

  I'm trying to get it crafty.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, get crafty.

• 27:24Joe Rogan?

  I'm trying to move along here. Are you gonna come up with a name of the guy?

• 27:27Speaker 02

  I'm not coming up with anything. I wanna see how your mind worked. I'm only doing this because you told me I would've said 2020 no matter what. You think that you had the thought regards to what I did, and I want you to see that there's causality. Boom, do it now. Who just came into your head?

• 27:42Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  Tell us. I'm not guessing.

• 27:43Joe Rogan?

  Anderson Silva.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  Anderson Silva, legendary, right?

• 27:46Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  Did he win or lose that fight?

• 27:47Joe Rogan?

  He won.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  He won that fight?

• 27:49Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  How many people did you go to, so funny you said Anderson Silva, legendary guy? How many people did you think of before you landed on him?

• 27:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I don't know. I scrolled, the Rolodex, they just all went flying through my mind.

• 28:02Speaker 02

  Just give me a guess, how many times do you...

• 28:04Joe Rogan?

  Dozens.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  Dozens?

• 28:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they just all went flying through my head.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  Dozens?

• 28:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  If you had to put a number on it, and you actually count them, how many do you think you went through? Guess.

• 28:16Joe Rogan?

  I mean, let's be conservative and say like 14, let's not even say dozens.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  He was the 14th fighter that popped in your head?

• 28:22Joe Rogan?

  No, no, he was in there. He was in the mix.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  He was in the mix.

• 28:25Joe Rogan?

  I was just trying to figure out which one to pick. I was gonna get one with a crafty Russian name.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  Should've.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  One of those Chechens.

• 28:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 28:33Speaker 02

  Alright, no. 14 people went through your head, Anderson Silva, it's...

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Do you think that at some point in this week, you heard something that got that in the back of your head that made you say that now? Do you think there's any way that that could've happened?

• 28:48Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't believe so.

• 28:50Speaker 02

  You don't, right?

• 28:50Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't believe so. I've just been a huge fan of his forever. I don't think something popped up that made me think about him.

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Alright, I'm just curious.

• 28:58Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  No trick, I'm just curious why that happened.

• 29:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Where do we go from here?

• 29:05Joe Rogan?

  Where are you going with this?

• 29:06Speaker 02

  I don't know where I'm going.

• 29:07Joe Rogan?

  You don't know?

• 29:08Speaker 02

  I do.

• 29:09Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  But I'm not telling you yet.

• 29:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Now Joe's flummoxed, he's like, "Where do we go?"

• 29:16Joe Rogan?

  No, I mean, like, I don't know why you asked me the question if you don't have a resolution.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm not guessing it. I wanted to see where you thought of why it came to your mind. There'll be a reason, I don't wanna explain it yet, but you'll see.

• 29:26Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:27Joe Rogan?

  There'll be a reason why it came into my mind?

• 29:29Speaker 02

  I think so, I think there is, yeah.

• 29:30Joe Rogan?

  Really? What's the reason?

• 29:31Speaker 02

  Well, I don't, I don't wanna tell you yet. I'm selling the sizzle, not the steak.

• 29:37Joe Rogan?

  So, these techniques that you use.

• 29:40Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 29:40Joe Rogan?

  Are these ones that you've invented?

• 29:42Speaker 02

  A lot of them.

• 29:43Joe Rogan?

  A lot of them.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And how did you invent them?

• 29:46Speaker 02

  You know what?

• 29:47Joe Rogan?

  How did they come to you?

• 29:47Speaker 02

  I think, uh, my favorite form of entertainment by far is stand-up comedy. Like, straight up, I'm a fanboy of comedians. Like, not the people that do what I do, because that's, I just love watching how you can take any premise and stuff that's not funny, right? The people that really go, you know, you do, like, Andrew Shulz, the, you, Life, did you watch his?

• 30:07Joe Rogan?

  I haven't seen it yet.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  You haven't seen it?

• 30:09Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  So how do you take infertility, right? And just, it's not really a very funny subject, and make it incre- is incredible.

• 30:15Joe Rogan?

  No, he's amazing.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  One of the best specials. He's so good, so good. And so, I like the fact that how you invent that. So, I design with an end in sight. I say, what do I want people to remember about what I do?

• 30:27Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Because I'm not really in the business of fooling you, honestly, and like, entertaining you, all of those are side effects. What do I think I do for a living? I create memorable moments, which is very definable, because if you go see a movie, let's say you see a popcorn flick, you walk out of the movie theater, 10 minutes, like, wha- wha- what happened in the movie? I don't know. It was fun. I don't know. That, to me, is 100% like, the death of my show. You leave, and you will remember things, hopefully, for years to come. And that's because I can rework your memory. That's really a lot of the techniques I do. People think that your memory is infallible, that what you see is some sort of blueprint, like a video.

• 31:06Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  And it's not. I- i- it has to do with how you feel in the moment, the emotions, the things you can position, the same way hypnosis works. So I can kind of engineer memories in a certain way, the way people remember things, the way they think, and create those moments that people talk about, hopefully, for years, and that's what's been, you know, I guess, that's what's been the driver of my business, and what's helped, helped lead to my success.

• 31:26Joe Rogan?

  Engineering memories.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:27Joe Rogan?

  And when you first started getting into mentalism, is that the word to use?

• 31:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:31Joe Rogan?

  Mentalism?

• 31:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:32Joe Rogan?

  You're a mentalist, but do you call it mentalism?

• 31:34Speaker 02

  I guess so, yeah, mentalism.

• 31:35Joe Rogan?

  Did you know that? Or is it something that?

• 31:38Speaker 02

  No. I learned it. I le- you know what? I learned certain things, and I observed them, and I didn't understand why they happened. You ever have that? You ever have a moment in a set where you- You say it's something that you didn't think was funny, but got a huge laugh. Did you know, do you have that or do you always know? It's usually not the punch. It's like, I didn't know that would be funny right then.

• 31:54Joe Rogan?

  Oftentimes with the new bit, yeah, you don't exactly know where it's funny.

• 31:58Speaker 02

  Where the beats are, what was the word I said in this way? What was that inflection point? So when I was doing restaurants, I had this trick where I would have somebody pick a card out of a deck of cards. Right? They would put the card back in the deck. They sign it with their name. And I used to do this at a bunch of restaurants. They would shuffle up the deck. I give them a rubber band. I say, rubber band that bad boy. And I would take the deck and I would throw it at the ceiling. It's kind of a famous trick. And then boom, the ceilings were really high at all the restaurants I worked at, so no one could peel them out. Their card would be, stay stuck to the ceiling. And this was great for multiple ways. One, everybody talks about it and they're like, dude, this guy stuck my card to the ceiling. How the hell did he do that? They would also bring people back to the restaurant, right? Cha-ching, cha-ching. The managers loved me because we'd bring more people back. To see it and point at where their card was, right? Business 101.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  And so I created a great value proposition to the manager. Why am I there? I'm, you know, getting you guys more customers. But one time, I'm listening to people that came back in. And they're talking about the trick and they go, yo, man, I picked a card. I, I put it back in the deck and, and I shuffled it up. And next thing I know, I look at the ceiling and my card's on the ceiling. And I'm like, yo, that's not what happened. I threw the deck up. The deck fell down and then the card was on the ceiling. So I go, why did that guy misremember it? Right? Maybe he's just drunk, maybe whatever, but I'm trying to understand. Why did he have a different memory of the same event? And what I realized is that people observe what you have them focus on. Right? Tony Robbins has a great bit where he goes, right now, close your eyes. Tell me everything that's green in this room.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  And you're like, green? I don't, you know, but then when you open your eyes, I see that the UFO lights are green instantly. But I say, close your eyes again. What's purple in this room? I'm like, I didn't look for purple. You find what you're looking for. So if I didn't say, it took me a while to like iterate and figure it out. But if I don't look up when I throw the cards, when I would throw the cards up and let them fall back down on my hand and not look up. The percentage would go 80, 90% that afterwards, people, when they told the story, they edited, they clipped out the part of me throwing the. The deck, and now it becomes a miracle. How the hell's that card on the ceiling stuck? You mean you shuffled it, it was signed, it's on the ceiling? That went from being a good trick to a miracle. And I kinda learned that at about age 15. And I started to realize, how do I do that with everything I do?

• 34:09Speaker 02

  Because that's a life hack for everything you do. That's not magic. That's life. How do you get people to remember what you want and forget the things you don't want?

• 34:19Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 34:20Speaker 02

  That's how you achieve success. You start to highlight your strengths. You find ways, and that's a learnable skill. That's not something for magic. That's something in all of life.

• 34:30Joe Rogan?

  And what is it like when you're thinking this? When you're thinking, I'm gonna get people to remember something? How are you doing this? What's your intention when you're trying to devise like what to do?

• 34:41Speaker 02

  Well, I guess my intention, well, at the end of the day, I'm a competitive SOB. I wanna be the best in the world at what I do. Like, I'm driven by that. It's like Olympic gold medalist. Like, I wanna do the best things possible. Most people don't know what a mentalist is. You go on the street, 100 people, how many people are gonna say, "Yeah"?

• 34:55Joe Rogan?

  I have a second ATM card.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Leave that for the end, huh?

• 35:00Joe Rogan?

  You wanna try it again?

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Not yet. I don't like to do the same thing. I gotta do better stuff.

• 35:04Joe Rogan?

  I wanna see it again, though. I wanna see if you could do it again.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  All right, before we go. How about that? Not right now. We're in flow.

• 35:10Joe Rogan?

  Okay, okay.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  But...

• 35:12Joe Rogan?

  I'm trying to throw you off.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  You could. Listen, I don't get it right every time. That's the other part. A magic trick works every time. This doesn't. I've eaten it on live national TV.

• 35:21Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 35:22Speaker 02

  With millions of people watching. Yeah, man, there's no safety net. Like, it's not a trick. There's not a card trick where you put it in, I find it. There's not like that.

• 35:28Joe Rogan?

  So how are you doing it?

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I'm telling you, I don't read minds. I read people. I've got a whole host of different skills, algorithms, you name it. Like, misdirection, it's all a wheelhouse of skills that I'm using to create the impression I can read your mind.

• 35:42Joe Rogan?

  But this has gotta be a weird thing to know how to do.

• 35:46Speaker 02

  Weird, like, in a bad way or a good way?

• 35:48Joe Rogan?

  Uh, definitely a good way.

• 35:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:50Joe Rogan?

  But weird to like, you have like, an extra frequency.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 35:54Joe Rogan?

  That you're tuning into with humans. Like, you're experiencing life in a different way, because you're experiencing life through this understanding of like, thought patterns.

• 36:04Speaker 02

  It's, you know what the best way? Do you remember in Born Identity? The first scene, like, one of the scenes where he loses his memory and he walks in the restaurant, you remember that scene? And he's sitting at a diner, do you remember that one?

• 36:13Joe Rogan?

  I don't.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  He sits there and he turns and he goes, he doesn't remember who he is. And he goes, "Why do I know?" And I'm gonna massacre this quote. "But I, why do I know that that guy's 250, can handle himself in a fight? Why do I know this? Why do I know that right now I could run for two and a half miles before my core temperature goes down to this?" Like, he, it's like this amazing superhero spy moment of like, how the hell does he know all that stuff? So he's observing life at a much more hyper-focused level than most people are. Most people are dialed in at autopilot. If you could set a speaker to autopilot and here's what you're observing? I don't do it in my day-to-day life. It requires focus. It's not the same, it's kinda like, I guess, I don't know, I don't lift weights, I just run? But how much focus is required to try to do, you know, the largest bench press you've ever done?

• 36:59Speaker 02

  I assume that you have to get psyched up, you have to focus, you have to do everything right for that to work. Just an analogy, but for me, when I'm performing, you ask me why did I run 27 miles this morning? That dials in my mind. Like, I'm focused, where I thought through everything I'm gonna do today, I'm, it's a laser focus. That got me kind of in tune. I could also have not run, but I, that, that's, that's, I'm also away from home, so that was like, my joy.

• 37:23Joe Rogan?

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• 38:29Speaker 04

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• 39:02Joe Rogan?

  So when you're like putting together a show, when you're gonna do a show, how do you structure it? Like, how do you, like, day one, you're like, okay, I'm getting ready to do a show.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  You mean something on TV? Or like, what I do for a living, like, like events?

• 39:17Joe Rogan?

  Or either one, any kind of show you're doing.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  So for my day-to-day living, which is I do a lot of, like, really big corporate events, and then I do, you know, I guess, a lot of private parties, things like that, sort of performances, like live performances.

• 39:29Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  Typically, I, I structure it the same way I think anybody would. I want to go out the gate very strong. I want to very instantly establish credibility. Who am I? What do I do? Am I any good at it? And why should you be paying attention to me? Because all those questions off the jump is like, who the hell cares? I always go into it with, who cares what you can do? You're special. I don't care. I like the thought of, I'm gonna prove to you that this is something incredible, and that it's something you're interested in emotionally. Right? If I told you just make a random number up, who cares? But now it's gonna haunt you that that's your frickin' ATM PIN code. So I prefer that. So I do something very quick that freaks you out. And then every single thing needs to have a very clear premise. Like, I call it clarity of effect.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  I don't like a trick where I'm like, get a book, get a Rubik's Cube, get the, like, it's too confusing. You need to be able to explain to a six-year-old what I did in one sentence for it to be memorable. That's the key. The best things you've ever seen are typically stuff you can describe in one, max, two sentences.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  And for TV, for TV, it's the same, same exact thing, but I always like to do new stuff. So I've done a lot of TV appearances and I always structure it based on who's watching. So rather than it being about me and I'm me saying, oh, look what I can do and look how cool this is. Right. You do a card trick. Again, I'm not saying that's not amazing, but the card trick's about you typically. If I'm on ESPN and I've, you know, done hundreds of millions of views doing stuff for football players, you're watching this, you're a football fan, you're like, who cares about this guy? I'm going to do stuff about football players and about what interests you if you're a fan. I don't know if you've seen, I did a clip with Joe Burrow from the Bengals where I said, Joe, I've ever spoken to you a word in my life? He goes, no. Like I, honestly, the funny thing about that is I wasn't even supposed to use him in the show. They told me he's shy, you don't want to, like, don't use him in the show.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  And they said, if you can't avoid him, and I got in there, I tried to rile up the gang, you know, kind of pure pressure. And I'm like, should we get Joe in here? And they're like, yeah, get him up. Haven't spoken a word to this guy in my life. There's no access. I went in with ESPN, shout out to Adam Schefter, who I love, who set all these wheels in motion. But Joe stands up, doesn't know me from anyone, and I say, every wide receiver and tight end in the room, stand up. And I go, what if I could tell you who you're going to throw that ball to? What's that worth? Right? That's the holy grail if you're in football. I go, catch the ball quarterback. I go, look at everyone in this room and now look at me. And I wrote on a huge, huge thing, showed the camera, throw it to anybody you want. Throws it, got the first one right. I go, let's do it again. I go, throw it to anyone you want. He goes, anyone? I go, anyone.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  Throws it, got the second one right. Everyone's freaking out. I go, one last play, one last, to his luck. And I write, fakes to Jamar, you can watch the clip. It's most viral thing I've ever done. And he fakes it to Jamar, turns around, throws it to another guy, nailed it exactly. Just, and you just see his face. And so I was thinking about how I would do that for two years. Two years of thinking of every single way that could work, not work, go wrong. Everything about it was, you know, he thought I went in the room and it's so simple. That was two years of me thinking about it during every run.

• 42:36Joe Rogan?

  So for two years, you knew you were gonna do this, or you knew that you were?

• 42:41Speaker 02

  I started with the end. You asked me the same way. I don't know how you like form a set, but you asked me, how do I design? I was designing with the story people would tell. And so people that don't know who I am, don't know anything go, yo, we saw this guy. Did you see this guy? He just told Joe Burrow to throw the ball to any people. Throws it, gets it right. Throws it. Like, the story is, I told a quarterback, anybody he would throw the ball to.

• 43:00Joe Rogan?

  So it was any quarterback? It wasn't Joe Burrow in your head?

• 43:04Speaker 02

  Uh, well, I didn't know who it would be.

• 43:05Joe Rogan?

  But he said you could do it for two years. So for two years, you thought you were gonna be on ESPN and with a quarterback?

• 43:10Speaker 02

  Well, no. So I had, he was the second season. So when I first started it, I start brainstorming. I'm like, I can't control what thoughts come in. I'm constantly thinking about what I'm gonna do. And I, I just do notes apps. I write stuff down in the shower. Like, when I run is when I come up with stuff, and in the shower. Sometimes on airplanes, but I sleep on planes. But that's when it hits me. Like, where are your, where are your bursts? You must have, like, where are you getting material?

• 43:33Joe Rogan?

  Mostly late at night, right? Yeah, but sometimes driving.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  Driving? You don't do phone calls or anything?

• 43:39Joe Rogan?

  I mean, phone calls, I'm usually concentrated on talking to people. They're not the times where ideas come to me. A lot of times it's driving with no music on.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  Wow, yeah. I'm never in the car by myself, ever.

• 43:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 43:53Speaker 02

  Mm-mm.

• 43:53Joe Rogan?

  Family, but...

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Five kids.

• 43:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow. Yeah, um, driving to work, you know, usually that's when it comes to me.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I'm in New York City, so there's no...

• 44:05Joe Rogan?

  Sauna.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  Sauna's good, because you can't be on electronics.

• 44:08Joe Rogan?

  Right, yeah.

• 44:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, the phones are a killer. The phones, like, you zap any creativity or boredom. You need boredom.

• 44:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you do need boredom. Yeah, you need boredom for ideas to come to you, for sure.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 44:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the problem, essentially with social media. It's like, it's a boredom. You are still bored, but you are occupied.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Right. You don't get to sit with it.

• 44:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  Which I think is key, because that's when they kind of fire off.

• 44:32Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  And I think that's, you know, not to get into it, but like, so many kids now have no way to deal with boredom.

• 44:39Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  Like, it's like, panic, I gotta get my phone, I gotta, you know, that whole feeling of, I wish there was a way to do that.

• 44:45Joe Rogan?

  They're just completely unaccustomed to not being constantly entertained. And even entertained by nonsense. It's not even really entertaining. It's just distracting.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:54Joe Rogan?

  Which is a big part of it.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So you sat out for two years prepping this thing? No, I didn't sit out. I was just always thinking. It's like a- Right. I mean, but you know, you set out, I should say, set out in your mind. You had this idea in your head for two years. How do I do it? Yeah. How do you do it? How do you do it? That's, that, that, that was the question, because I didn't know how to do it at first. How did you do it?

• 45:16Speaker 02

  Million dollar question, right? I wouldn't be in business if everybody knew. That's kinda- Well, okay, even better. How did you learn how to do this kinda thing? So I, I started with books, and then there's some videos, but it's a very esoteric- What do the books tell you that's applicable? They give you a, a series of foundational things, like, right, almost everybody who becomes a mentalist stars a magician. It's kinda like if you're a doctor, you gotta be a doctor before you become a plastic surgeon. So there's this core set of skills that you utilize to, to know how to fool people, right? To know how people think. Okay. Right? Think about, you, if I taught you a card trick right now, there's always a level of deception. We go, oh, that's- Sleight of hand. Well, not even, there's tricks called self-working tricks, where you don't need to do any sleight of hand. Okay.

• 45:58Speaker 02

  They work by themselves as long as you follow the instructions, like Ikea furniture, like step one, step two, step three. As long as you can work people in a certain way to do the right things, versus somebody being, I'm not doing that. You're like, oh shit, what do I do right now? Right? You have to know how to finesse people. You have to influence people effectively. And so that same stuff within magic almost always applies to props. You need a thing to do the trick. Okay. Now, it could be a regular deck of cards, in which case you're learning sleights, but also there's gimmicks, right? There's tricks you can buy at stores, which when I was a kid, I'm like, oh, teenager, I'm like, get me the next gimmick. But then to get better, you start being able to do stuff impromptu, right? That's when you kinda hit another level where I don't need stuff. I can do stuff with anything, you know?

• 46:40Speaker 02

  I could do stuff, it's like a, a good story from my book that I'm writing right now, but it's like, where, where, uh, I, I just needed anything around. I was like, I end up in jail for a weekend. It's a long story, but like, in jail, one weekend, stupid weekend, but I walk in there by myself, and I, I should've been out that day, but anyway, I got stuck all weekend, and I watched them with cards, and it was like I had trained my whole life for this moment, where I walked up record scratch to like forty dudes, and I go, can I see those cards? And it was like, everyone looked at me like, what's this guy about to do? And I just did card tricks for the next eight hours. When I went to take a shower, I'm like, I'm like thinking of the show Oz. I'm like, oh my God, right now I take, I had protection. I went to the shower, Mc耗st County Jail in Michigan,

• 47:23Speaker 02

  and literally I had people being like, go take a shower. We got you, bro. Uh, what did you go to jail for? Oh, so stupid. So we had, this is so dumb. This almost derailed my whole career. Drunken idiots. I go up to visit a buddy in college and we steal from a Papa John's. God, don't ask me why. A broken phone at a college Papa John's. Just being idiots. I paid for the pizza, but there was a broken phone on the counter. And you know, this is like me sleight of hand style. I'm like, I'm just stealing this thing. It's just gone. And it was in my jacket. And then I told my buddies, you guys gotta get something too. So they go in the bathroom, which doubles up as the employee locker room. And they take three dirty shirts, dirty shirts from a laundry bin. And we bring them back to my buddy's house like idiots. We wear them. And we at the party, I barely remember this. I was

• 48:08Speaker 02

  like blackout drunk, are like Papa John's, who wants a pizza? Who wants a pizza? I end up going to sleep on his futon, right? At like 2am. And at 4am, someone comes in and they're like, yo, the cops are here. I'm like, dude, it's not my house. What do you want from me? Did you guys post videos? No, this is pre-social media, man. No, no. Somebody ratted us out. Somebody's roommate, I found this out way later. Oh. Calling goes, yo, bro, there's a bunch of dudes here with a broken phone from Papa John's. I didn't know any of this. But somebody comes in, they're like, yo, the cops are here. I'm like, they're here for you. And I'm like, here for me? What do you mean they're here for me? I don't live here. And cops come in the room, and I'm wearing like aggressively small underwear at this point. This is like tighty-whities. This couldn't have been more of like a bad perp walk. And I, they go, yo, you're under arrest. And I'm like, for

• 48:52Speaker 02

  what? And they're like, for stealing from Papa John's. And what am I gonna say? I'm wearing the shirt. Oh my God. This is on a Friday night. How old were you? I was 20 years old. And I was just about to get an internship for Merrill Lynch. And while this story is hilarious now, it's like a funny chapter in my book. It was like, God help me, did I avoid everything? And then when I went to jail, yo, scariest, one of the scariest days of my life. Cause it's, it's all- How'd you get out of everything? So I got out of everything because I had a clean record. I was a pretty upstanding citizen. And, um, you know, not to-

• 49:24Speaker 02

  in the weeds or something called Holmes youthful trainee act I wonder if they still have it whereas expunged from my record didn't have to report it to like the Wall Street firm and they also said they were charging me they put us in like a drunk tank me and two buddies and they said they're charging us with felony larceny and I'm I've seen some like law and order I'm like felony what is this like what do we steal like 20 bucks worth of stuff they go but you stole things they don't sell had you stolen 999 dollars of pizza it would have been a misdemeanor and I know they're lying to me I'm not a mentalist then and I'm inebriated but I can read the room didn't say a word knew this was BS and then they separated us when we went to general population

• 50:01Speaker 02

  and it's not like the movies you know it's it's like it was it was wild it was wild when I went in there and I just knew this is my cheat code it was like everything in life had prepared me for this moment and the jail was also again I didn't know this but it's very segregated like the white dudes are here the black dudes are here and I didn't know what do you do when you go in like what do you do I'm five foot nothing I'm like a buck 40 dripping wet what do I do who how do you make friends right now and and I see the black guys playing spades and I just walk up and it's like you make your move and I'm like let me see those cards and it was just it's it's like a moment I have and I didn't stop for hours I didn't repeat a trick like I know tricks encyclopedically I just go all day

• 50:42Joe Rogan?

  wow what an experience

• 50:45Speaker 02

  it was crazy and then it was all thrown out and cost me some money it was definitely a very very stressful few weeks and I never stole anything since honestly that was scared straight that was very very smart like I you prefer to learn a lesson like that for my kids especially without being stupid but so many of us have to be stupid to internalize a lesson of touching the stove and I had to burn my hands but

• 51:06Joe Rogan?

  did you always talk this way the way you talk you talk very fast with a lot of energy is this your whole life

• 51:12Speaker 02

  I think so even though man anyone on 1.5x the way I listen to podcasts is gonna be miserable with me but yeah

• 51:18Joe Rogan?

  maybe that's it like you're listening to podcasts at that speed you're communicating at that speed It's like you're on.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  I'm on.

• 51:26Joe Rogan?

  And you ran 27 fucking miles.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  That's true, no caffeine. So I'm not a caffeine guy.

• 51:30Joe Rogan?

  You don't drink caffeine at all?

• 51:32Speaker 02

  I try to avoid it. Like, I'm not a coffee guy. I miss the boat on coffee. I honestly wish I did. It probably wouldn't be good for me, given how dialed in I am, but like, I just never started drinking caffeine, so I never got into it.

• 51:43Joe Rogan?

  Do you ever mess with any stimulants?

• 51:45Speaker 02

  Not really.

• 51:46Joe Rogan?

  No, not really? What does that mean?

• 51:47Speaker 02

  Like, what do you mean by stimulants? Like, I'll have-

• 51:49Joe Rogan?

  Like, anything?

• 51:49Speaker 02

  If I don't sleep-

• 51:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:51Speaker 02

  A- and that happens a lot, so if I'm not, like, getting enough sleep, and I've done a Red Eye, and I'm this and that, I will occasionally do, like, a Celsius or a Red Bull, but I don't really like it. I do it kind of as medicine, because I have to be alive- and functioning, but I really try to avoid it.

• 52:04Joe Rogan?

  What is it like when you get hit with a Celsius and you haven't been drinking any caffeine?

• 52:09Speaker 02

  So I only drink about a third of it, and then I pour it out. Um, and, and my kids are always like, "Why are you pouring that out?" And they call everything a brewski, which is a weird thing to call it, just 'cause before, I always like, it was always like, a brewski is what they, they've extrapolated to every beverage in a can being a brewski.

• 52:25Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  That's hilarious.

• 52:27Joe Rogan?

  That's funny.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  And so, uh-

• 52:29Joe Rogan?

  But one-third just, like, must jolt you to the roof.

• 52:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Like, if you drank a Four Loko.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  I did Four Loko-

• 52:35Joe Rogan?

  Do they have booze in it?

• 52:36Speaker 02

  Yo, Four Loko's are like-

• 52:38Joe Rogan?

  Does it? Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. But it has, like, caffeine, too, right?

• 52:41Speaker 02

  That's like bad decisions in a can, right there.

• 52:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, what am I thinking of? Oh, a Redline. Is that the one?

• 52:46Speaker 02

  No, I think it's Four Loko. It's caffeine mixed with alcohol.

• 52:48Joe Rogan?

  There's one that's like, was just caffeine. It was fucking crazy.

• 52:51Speaker 00

  That was the stuff to take, like, pre-workout. That was fucking people up.

• 52:53Joe Rogan?

  Was that a Redline?

• 52:54Speaker 00

  Something like that.

• 52:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, there was that one? That was the other one. That was, uh, Rip Fuel.

• 52:58Speaker 01

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• 53:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So you've always been like this?

• 53:49Speaker 02

  I gotta ask my wife. I think so. Well, I'm more on now because we're doing something, but if I go on certain platforms or TV and I know I want to be slow, then I'll just calibrate down, but I'm getting fired up.

• 54:00Joe Rogan?

  Do you, when you plan out a show, whether it's a corporate show or a television show, do you have like a whiteboard? Do you like put your ideas on? Like, how do you, how do you do it?

• 54:10Speaker 02

  So I take meticulous notes about everything. Everyone I meet, everything at the end of a show, immediately, as quickly as I can afterwards, probably some people record shows. I hate re-watching myself on corporate shows and like live shows.

• 54:23Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  I don't mind TV stuff, but for some reason though, if I've repeated material, because I, you know, it's like muscle memory, you've done this before, it irks me to watch again. But I write down everything that happened. Every nuance, like paragraphs about everything that happened, which is a useful like life hack, because I remember it all, but also I get repeat bookings a lot, so if somebody brings me back, now it's like a real magic trick where I know everything about what happened. And if you even just recount stuff from two years ago, people think you have superhuman memory, or what do they like? People's number one subjects are themselves, their family, and their friends. The more you can do that and give them back stuff about them, the more they're like, wow, what a caring individual, right? Being a good listener, a lot of times just repeating back to people what they just said.

• 55:07Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. When you do these corporate shows and you do these television shows, when it goes great, do you have this idea in your head, like now I've got to ramp it up? Now I've got to push it even further? Now I've got to make it even more difficult for me?

• 55:24Speaker 02

  For sure. For TV more than corporate. Because corporate's not as big of a deal, because what does somebody want there? They want a defined quantity, right? They don't want somebody, you don't want to work out new material if you're being paid a lot. It's just, it's at a stadium, are you doing new ones? Eh, eh. Like, you're gonna do your hour, you're gonna do what's solid. So I do a lot of that, and the problem is I don't really have a lot of places where I can do new material, because I'm just so busy. So I have so many events that I, I don't really have like anything that I can do.

• 55:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there are like open mics for mentalists where you can go and practice?

• 55:57Speaker 02

  There might have been in the past, but right now it's not, it's just not where I'm at.

• 56:01Joe Rogan?

  Do you just practice on friends sometimes?

• 56:03Speaker 02

  Everything's in my head. Everything. Yeah, so I, I, a lot of things I'll, I'll do on TV, I've never done before, ever. Really? Yeah, so I'm just thinking through everything that could go wrong, and I go through kinda like a list of what could go wrong here, what could go wrong here, what if they think this right there, what if we change this? I have like Plan A, B, C, D, E, I have just a long list of what everything will go, like a pick your own adventure, and typically, I know where to go with it, and then controlling your body and your tension is everything, right? So, you're a hunter, you step on a branch, animal hears it, what happens, right? Gone, right, it's a, it's a, it's a sense that we can feel, we have the same thing, we're animals.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  If I get tense when something's going wrong, you can sense it, even if you don't know it on a conscious level, you can sense it, and now we have a cascade. So, my job is, is based upon me being someone of the alpha and being in control of the situation, and so if I, right, think about it, if I just said, think of your PIN code, you're like, I don't want to, right? I don't want to, I'm gonna do this instead, I'm gonna do this instead, right? How did you acquiesce to my will? You did what I wanted, in essence, right? We could manipulate any way, but at the end of the day, you did what I wanted. Right. And in my show, I'm the one pointing the camera, I'm always the director. You don't get to point where you want, I'm kinda in charge. And even if I let you think you're in charge, I'm still in charge at the end of the day. Right.

• 57:26Speaker 02

  Right, I come to my kids, I want them to eat veggies, I don't say, you gotta eat your veggies, they'll say, no. I go, you're so lucky right now, carrots, cucumbers, or peppers, which one? You're so lucky, you get to choose first before your brother or sister. Now, I've framed it differently, right? Anybody with toddlers knows, that's the best way to do it, don't go straight on, that's not gonna work. Right. So the same thing applies, power dynamics in relationships with people. So, I, I got lost in my train of thought, but in essence, if I am messing up, and you know it, it's gonna go downhill really fast. And so on TV, some of my biggest mess-ups, you don't know. But I am shitting my pants, flop sweat, like fully, and I can't let you see that.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  I need to be so calm, because if I am not calm, you can actually, you can actually tell, and it's gonna keep going worse, and I can't get you to go back to what I want. And I've lost control of the situation. So years and years were spent doing that. It's, it's, I would say it's very akin to a sniper. Um, I'm, I'm not a sniper. Don't get me wrong. I'm not military. But how do you calm your heart rate? How do you stay calm even when you're not? And I, I could have an HRM on me. I'm calm when things are going wrong.

• 58:33Joe Rogan?

  That must help. The running must help for that.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  I think so. Low heart rate.

• 58:37Joe Rogan?

  Just in control of it as well, right? Like your, your heart muscles very finely tuned.

• 58:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  I think it helps. I mean, it can't hurt.

• 58:47Joe Rogan?

  My friend Cam Haynes, who also runs these crazy ultra marathons. He's also the best bow hunter in the world and bow hunting is a lot of it is controlling your anxiety at the moment of the shot execution. And I would imagine for him, his heart rate is like completely under control all the time because he's always like very low. You know, because he does so many miles, like everything, he can stay calm. It's probably a really great tool just for staying calm, right?

• 59:15Speaker 02

  I think so. I, I mean, I, the way I described the ultra marathons, because they're silly. Right? You, he just ran, I love Cam, ran 250 miles. Do you see that thing? Amazing. That's a crazy thing to do. That's not healthy and I'm a nutcase who can say that. And for most people like, I don't want to do that and you don't need to. But what is that? What is that really? When you do that, everything else in life becomes easier. The lows that you experience when you do something like that is a way you cannot fake in any other way. You cannot test who you really are. Then putting yourself, you could be on the couch saying, what would I do and be tough guy and you're pretend to be Goggins or Haynes. But until you get in that level where you're miserable, you haven't slept in a day, you have all that.

• 59:59Speaker 02

  There might be another way to push yourself, but that's where you learn, who am I really at my core? And then when you go back to normal life, everything else, the volume is turned down. And when I come back from those races, all I do is get a mirror to put up to see who am I really? When things are at their lowest and when I want to quit and I don't.

• 1:00:18Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, yeah, I think that's, that's a very strong statement. I think one of the things that you just said there, I've said a bunch of times, that if you can work out really hard and push your body and push your mind, it makes other forms of adversity that you face during the day much easier. And I think that's one of the reasons why so many people are so filled with anxiety. It seems like that's such a simple solution that most people don't want to accept it. They're like, oh, there's more to that. There's a mental imbalance. There's a this, there's that. Like, perhaps, but everybody that I know that does what I'm talking about, everybody I know that pushes themselves very hard in the gym, or running, or doing yoga, or whatever, they're the most happy and the most relaxed, and they're able

• 1:01:00Joe Rogan?

  to face adversity throughout the day much easier than people that don't take care of their body, that don't eat well, that don't exercise, and don't experience any voluntary physical discomfort.

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  Couldn't agree more.

• 1:01:12Joe Rogan?

  It's just, I think it's, I think it's mandatory, you know, and it doesn't have to be what I do, or it doesn't have to be what you do. It's, go find, do pickleball, okay? Go play some other sport, tennis. Do something that's fun. Jiu-Jitsu's a great one.

• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:28Joe Rogan?

  It's fun to do, and then you learn how to do something while you're working out. Muay Thai is another one like that. You know, there's a lot of stuff that you can do that's fun, that's exercise, but, man, you should exercise, you know?

• 1:01:40Speaker 02

  You gotta move your body.

• 1:01:41Joe Rogan?

  You gotta move your body.

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  Again, I don't want to speak out of turn like medical, but they've shown over and over that exercise is just, it's almost as effective in certain regards, and like, like, just being a certain level of healthiness, than antidepressants.

• 1:01:53Joe Rogan?

  No, more effective.

• 1:01:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, and more effective. It's unbelievable.

• 1:01:55Joe Rogan?

  Statistically, clinically, more effective.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  More effective.

• 1:01:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Because it's, of course it is. Of course it is. Like, this is the reason why people are so filled with anxiety, is because your body has certain physical requirements.

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:02:08Joe Rogan?

  Your body was designed to fight off predators, and to run away from enemies, and to hunt and gather food. That's the same DNA as people that lived tens of thousands of years ago. Courses through your body. That's, or it's the fabric of your body. That's you.

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:02:23Joe Rogan?

  You're like, you can't deny that, and there's a reason why this, this sedentary...

• 1:02:29Joe Rogan?

  Sort of generation that we're experiencing right now because of phones and tablets and all the Sitting in front of screens all the time. It's the most depressed.

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  Right. No, for sure. Anxious too. Like the Jonathan Haidon, like it's, it's

• 1:02:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  It's, it's wild, the correlation, and it's just so clear cut. But yeah, social media is very, uh, It's, it's, it's one of those things, there's some benefits, But man, oh man, you can't put that genie back in the bottle. You gotta find the right way to do it.

• 1:02:53Joe Rogan?

  There's some benefits in that there's a lot of inspiration.

• 1:02:56Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 1:02:57Joe Rogan?

  You know, and also information. You know, I'm not completely off of social media. I, I tap in, but I've radically reduced it over the last month or so. And in doing that, it's really been much, much nicer. Like, life is way easier. But occasionally I'll find something really interesting on social media. So it's like, boy, I don't want to not know that. I don't want to not like find out about some new scientific breakthrough or some new thing that's going on. One of the things that I've found that, um, Helps me though, instead of social media, I just, I just have a bunch of stuff that I curate in my Google News app. And so I'll just like find, like any sort of scientific breakthrough or some weird discovery or

• 1:03:41Joe Rogan?

  A lot of really interesting things about ancient civilizations. I just have that stuff curated, so it just Shows up on my feed.

• 1:03:47Speaker 02

  Where you get that on your phone?

• 1:03:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's just the Google News app. It's great because it's like, That way I can find stuff out without having to go and just Hopefully randomly run into it on X or on Instagram.

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:04:01Joe Rogan?

  You know? That's how, that helps a lot.

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  Terrible with X. A lot of my friends get news on X. I'm just like, oh.

• 1:04:06Joe Rogan?

  It's too much negativity.

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  It's all, a lot of negativity. And for Instagram for years, I started realizing that it just, uh, Like a compare and despair is one of, do you know that? Like where I'm, I'm like, why am I getting off of this and feeling worse than I did getting on it? And so I really had to flip a switch in my brain To, to, to, I got rid of that. Anything that I don't like, I don't show. And I stopped focusing on what I don't have and what, I focus on what I do have. And so it.

• 1:04:34Joe Rogan?

  So did you like, used to go to it and you see someone with a giant house and a Lamborghini or something like that? Was it material possessions?

• 1:04:40Speaker 02

  It wasn't material. It was, I need to use, I don't look at people and hope poorly upon them. I look more at it and say, I'm not doing enough. So it's like a inferior. You're always gonna be lesser than, right? You're always gonna be, someone's gonna be younger, richer, smarter, like every er. But in my case, it was more of, I wanted to achieve a level of success and just seeing other people in my field or other fields. And I felt like I'm not doing enough.

• 1:05:03Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:04Speaker 02

  I'm somewhat driven ambitious. So I'm like,

• 1:05:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:05:06Speaker 02

  I'm just not doing enough right now. And it's that constant feeling of I'm not doing enough doesn't drive you. It would be better to see, look at them. I'm so happy for them. I'm gonna do that too. Like I, it should be a positive uplifting thing and it's a flip in your brain. It's like multiplying negative one times negative one. And much more of a inflection point of gratitude. Like I, I, do you know Jay Shetty?

• 1:05:28Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  Jay, uh, I don't know, podcaster, really good dude.

• 1:05:32Joe Rogan?

  I've definitely heard.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  Met him last year and he told me something very stuck with me for the last year, which is, million thoughts a day. We're on social media, we're all this, that. He goes, the only two thoughts, you can't control them all, but try to control two thoughts each day. The first one when you wake up and the last one you go to sleep. It's that easy. Those two, just try to have the first thing you wake up be one, and before you go to bed, just have one last thought.

• 1:05:55Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:05:56Speaker 02

  And I, they're always, for me, it's like, yo, I'm, every day alive is a blessing. Like I, I literally, I believe that in my core. You, I don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow. Like, a, a parent in my school just passed away recently. Shattered, like, young kids, cancer. I've known a few people. And you see that and you're like, no, that's for real though. You don't know what will happen tomorrow.

• 1:06:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:06:15Speaker 02

  So I've hit the lottery. Like, I'm blessed beyond measure. Wife, way out of my league. Smart, gorgeous, sharp as a whip, five beautiful kids. Like, I try to focus on everything I have and never on what I don't have. I get to do what I love for a living. Like, my mindset is completely evolved of why would I think of what people don't? And everybody, if you're alive, you should be happy. You do not know what tomorrow will be. And I know that's all like, new agey whatever, but that's, you don't know when your, your clock's up.

• 1:06:42Joe Rogan?

  We were just talking about that in the green. Last night at the comedy club about gravit- the, the problem with gratitude is that too many people have co-opted it.

• 1:06:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:06:50Joe Rogan?

  And really annoying people.

• 1:06:51Speaker 02

  Annoying.

• 1:06:52Joe Rogan?

  Annoying like wooden beads types, you know, like gratitude. But gratitude is really important.

• 1:06:57Speaker 02

  But no, it's, it's actually what you think because your thoughts create a lot of your reality. The same way I said, looking around the room. So if your mindset starts to become one more of, rather than you see someone, you're like, screw that guy, he's rich, right? That's how the mindset, that's easy for you to say, they're rich. You see that in comments all the time. I'm like, I think that person worked their butt off to get to where they are. And what did they do? And you know what? That's inspirational to me. What can I learn from that? And so that's just a mindset of, I don't see it as a zero sum game.

• 1:07:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's one thing that those people that post things like that have in common. When you go to their page, they're all very boring.

• 1:07:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:07:30Joe Rogan?

  It's really interesting. You see like the expression of their dull mind. That's like, fuck them, they got money.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:07:38Joe Rogan?

  I don't have money. They got money. It's a dull brain. And I always wonder like, what is it like to be that person? Is that person, is that a biological hitch? Or is it just learned behavior? Like what is it that makes them that stupid?

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  I don't know if it's stupid. I mean, I don't know if I judge, but I think you project your insecurities.

• 1:07:55Joe Rogan?

  It's a little bit of that, but it's a, it's a clearly a stupid way to think.

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:07:59Joe Rogan?

  You know, it does, it's totally not empowering. Like to complain about someone else's success or being angry about someone else's, else's success is not empowering in any way, shape or form. And so that's inherently stupid.

• 1:08:12Speaker 02

  But you find the excuses. Cause you're like, if I had that, if I had that, and rather than.

• 1:08:16Joe Rogan?

  Must be nice.

• 1:08:17Speaker 02

  Well, exactly. Must be nice. Rather than saying, how do I do this for myself?

• 1:08:22Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  It's much easier, especially if you've given up on certain things.

• 1:08:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  Now, once you've given up, it's better to make excuses and bring someone else down to try to bring you up.

• 1:08:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, here's what's dumb about it. And this is why I said it's stupid. It doesn't get any better when you think like that. Instead, if you can shift your focus and see someone doing something. Recognize that these tinges of jealousy that you feel are completely natural. But realize that to get the most out of this, you have to switch that in your mind to inspiration. And that person's success that's kind of freaking you out now becomes fuel. Right. Now becomes fuel and you can motivate yourself, but you have to avoid the fuck that guy and fuck this, fuck that. That doesn't help you at all. That does zero good for you. And in fact, it occupies all of your precious time with complaining.

• 1:09:16Joe Rogan?

  When instead, if you can manage it, and it can be managed, you can turn that into inspiration and then go out and try to do something. Either focus more on what you're doing, realize maybe I'm doing this. Uh, where it's not as efficient, or maybe I can have more energy, maybe I just need to do it more. Maybe I need to be a little bit more disciplined in my approach, whatever it is, but those little shifts will have measurable changes in the outcomes. Huge, huge changes. Major. Down the line, especially the big one. Change jealousy to inspiration. Love that. You have to be able to do it. Right. It's, it's a giant key. You know, I remember when I was uh, 21 years old, there was a guy who was going on stage and I was hoping that he bombed.

• 1:10:02Joe Rogan?

  Right. I remember thinking that I was hoping that he bombed. And the reason I've re- recognized it, I was realizing that I was recognizing that he was talented. And that he was really funny and it bothered me that maybe I wasn't as talented as him, or I wasn't as funny as him. So instead of like seeing him going, what is he doing? Like, wow, this is great. Instead, now all of a sudden I was hoping that he failed. Right. And then I realized like, oh, here's the problem. You, first of all, that's just like general bitch thinking that like can enter into your head and you gotta figure out how to stop that. Yup. But I also realized that I was getting to this weird precarious position, which happens to a lot of artists where.

• 1:10:46Joe Rogan?

  You get into something, whether it's music or stand-up comedy, because you love it as a fan. You love watching it. Like, I loved comedy. But then, I, when I became a comedian, I stopped loving comedy. Now, I was comparing everyone to myself.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  Right, that's brutal, right?

• 1:11:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and it's not good for you. And I was like, no, no, no, you gotta go back to laughing at stuff that's good, and not connecting it to you at all. It has nothing to do with you. So when someone's really good, that should be great.

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:11:15Joe Rogan?

  And then you should be laughing, even if you don't like that person, you should be laughing.

• 1:11:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:11:20Joe Rogan?

  Just, you, even if you hate someone and they're funny, you should be laughing because it's good for you.

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's, I find that it's over time, it's, it's, it's almost, it's selfish, but it's selfless at the same time, is, I like to show love to people coming up, as much as possible, and try to highlight them, and try to kind of pay it forward in a way.

• 1:11:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  That's for the new people that are kind of doing what I do, or doing different things.

• 1:11:42Joe Rogan?

  It makes you feel good.

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  It makes you feel good to do good for others.

• 1:11:45Joe Rogan?

  It's selfish to help people, isn't that funny? I say that too.

• 1:11:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:49Joe Rogan?

  It's very funny, we think that same.

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• 1:12:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I, I think exactly the same way. It's kind of selfish, but it's also, it's, that's what community is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be not just about you, and, that's the difference between a community and a cult.

• 1:12:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:12:49Joe Rogan?

  Cult is like, then you have the cult leader, he starts banging everybody's wife, and he wants everybody's money.

• 1:12:53Speaker 02

  There's always an inflection point where you're starting to bang wives. That's always, where is that in the cult? There's always a message from God.

• 1:13:00Joe Rogan?

  Right, that tells you you need more pussy.

• 1:13:02Speaker 02

  And you're like, those two right there, I don't know why. He didn't, I didn't say it, I didn't say it for the record.

• 1:13:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:09Speaker 02

  He said it.

• 1:13:10Joe Rogan?

  God said it.

• 1:13:10Speaker 02

  And then always the part else is there's always some sort of a end point, like the world's gonna end, but it didn't because we prayed so hard, so we're back, baby.

• 1:13:19Joe Rogan?

  Ah, yeah, those guys are great. There was a billboard in Los Angeles a while back that had the date of the end of the world.

• 1:13:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:13:27Joe Rogan?

  And you'd drive by and I was like, I can't wait to show up here and take a selfie in front of it the day after this fucking stupid date.

• 1:13:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:13:36Joe Rogan?

  Cause those guys are never right.

• 1:13:38Speaker 02

  Never right.

• 1:13:38Joe Rogan?

  The, that's weird. They're the worst mentalists. You know, the, uh...

• 1:13:43Speaker 02

  The cult leaders?

• 1:13:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, cult leaders, they just never see the writing on the wall.

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  The cult leader has like a very unique, where again, there's, there's a fine line between if you looked at a path in my life, again, I don't see myself cult leader, but a con man is very similar in many regards to what I do because that's using these skills in what I would describe as, um, like an unethical way, right?

• 1:14:04Joe Rogan?

  But don't you think they're the same thing? A cult leader's a type of con man.

• 1:14:07Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm saying what I do is like a con man.

• 1:14:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but you are a con man for entertainment purposes.

• 1:14:12Speaker 02

  Right, exactly.

• 1:14:13Joe Rogan?

  It's different. Like, you're not, you have an understanding of the human mind, but instead of using it in a, you do it for entertainment, which is like a good way to use it.

• 1:14:22Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:14:22Joe Rogan?

  Where everybody gets happiness out of it.

• 1:14:24Speaker 02

  It's happiness and you're not lying about the premise, which is the premise is I'm starting from the jump. I'm not psychic. I'm not supernatural. People ask me, is this like a talent? Or is it a gift? And I think it's similar. Well, yeah, I mean, you've got to have some sort of thing in you to be a good comedian or a good musician or anything like that. You can work on it and get better, but I'm never going to the NBA. You know what I'm saying? That's not happening. You have to have some attributes.

• 1:14:46Joe Rogan?

  Right, there's like a personality trait that just is embedded in you from the time you're young for whatever the thing is that you love to do.

• 1:14:53Speaker 02

  Maybe it was like watching my folks. Maybe, there was a lot of weird stuff. I was very good at math as a kid, like unusually good at math. And I would do weird stuff. Like I'd count steps every time. I knew every step and every place I went to, like some...

• 1:15:06Joe Rogan?

  Rain man.

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  Rain man stuff. And when I would go, this is from the time I was like six, we'd go to Little Caesar's. I'll never forget. I lived in metro Detroit and before they rang up the food, I knew the percentage tax it would be. So when they did it, I would instantly say before, I'd look and I know what my mom was gonna take out. You're gonna, you're gonna get sixteen dollars and eighteen cents. She's like, how'd you know that and change? And it was like a weird...

• 1:15:27Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  And it was like a weird thing that I got very good at. And I think the boom, dopamine hit, dopamine hit, they would like that.

• 1:15:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:34Speaker 02

  And so it's ingrained where I was good at. Again, people become the joker because there's some sort of dark thing in their, not everybody, but typically there's some, I don't want to say trauma. But you're not going to be funny or amazing unless something happened in your life where you have a reason to be entertaining.

• 1:15:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:15:51Speaker 02

  And so I think there's points in time where I could take people's minds off things. And this was a great way to do it. And also magic, people don't get to know you. They get to know the character, the performer. So you get that nice little separation, which I learned at a young age was really like how to make rejection. Fear of rejection, fear of failure, most people, that's their number one fear. And I learned at 14 how to make that gone, like eliminate that entirely.

• 1:16:15Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. That's interesting. It's also the dynamic of you being in control, which I think you, you know, you talked about earlier, I think is for whatever reason imperative when you're speaking to people. You have to be in control for them to let you kind of guide everything. You don't want other people, you don't want to ask questions and you have everybody like free to talk and.

• 1:16:38Speaker 02

  No, I don't mind that. No, I don't mind that, but if they do it when I want them to, right? It's like, again, so the best salespeople in the world aren't the used car sales, like buy this, buy this, that's, nobody does well. The number one salesperson in organization is the one who gets you to sell yourself. They're bending over backwards to be like, I gotta, I gotta do business with you, right? You get someone to the point where at the end, you don't have to hard close.

• 1:17:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:17:03Speaker 02

  Every organization I work for, and I go in there and like show you how to do sales training one-on-one. It's going to be the person who gets the other person to sell themselves. That's what you do. You lay the breadcrumbs into the trap. The trap is not a bad thing, but the same thing happens in my show. I am leading you in a certain direction.

• 1:17:20Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:17:21Speaker 02

  Watch, I'll show you something. How often is Jamie, Jamie, when I walked in, I talked to him for like two minutes, said he loves magic.

• 1:17:27Joe Rogan?

  He does.

• 1:17:28Speaker 02

  Is that true? Is Jamie off mic?

• 1:17:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, what's up?

• 1:17:32Speaker 02

  I didn't know I was gonna do this. You have daughters, correct?

• 1:17:37Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:17:37Speaker 02

  So it's hard, I, I, I have, I have three girls, two boys, and I found when I named our girls, well, we named it together, obviously. The naming of the girls was far harder than the boys. When you named your daughters, was it agreed upon, were you like shortlisted, how did it go about?

• 1:17:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, I feel like my wife did way more work than I did.

• 1:18:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:18:01Joe Rogan?

  So she carries the baby in her body and I said, "Listen, I would just want veto power."

• 1:18:06Speaker 02

  Veto.

• 1:18:07Joe Rogan?

  Where you can't name the kid applesauce or something fucking stupid. But she didn't. I go, "I don't think it's a fair proposition." That's like literally what I said. I said, "And I don't give a fuck about names."

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  And they've got your name for last name, which is so unfair, but yeah.

• 1:18:20Joe Rogan?

  Right, that's right. Exactly. And so does she. But my name is Joe. It's a boring ass stupid name. It doesn't bother me at all that I have the same name as a billion people.

• 1:18:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:18:29Joe Rogan?

  So for me, names don't mean anything and it meant something for her. So I said, "You decide."

• 1:18:35Speaker 02

  So, watch this. What are the, do you know what the most common names are right now? I know this recently with like a one, a two week old, but the most common names right now are not the same as when you were naming your daughters is my guess. If they're teenagers. What, do you know what the most common name right now in, in America? I think it's six years running.

• 1:18:50Joe Rogan?

  Momma.

• 1:18:51Speaker 02

  Look this up. No, no, for girls. For girls.

• 1:18:54Joe Rogan?

  What is it? No.

• 1:18:55Speaker 02

  Olivia. Jamie, can you look up top 10?

• 1:18:58Joe Rogan?

  It's a beautiful name.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  Look up, it just came out, social security. I know this because like I said, we were trying to figure out names. Is, am I right? It should be Olivia's number one.

• 1:19:07Speaker 02

  I don't know, Google top 10.

• 1:19:08Joe Rogan?

  Who do you think of, what do you think of Olivia?

• 1:19:12Speaker 02

  I thought initially of Olivia Wilde.

• 1:19:14Joe Rogan?

  Who's Olivia Wilde?

• 1:19:16Speaker 02

  Movie star?

• 1:19:18Joe Rogan?

  Do you know who she is? Oh, that lady. Yeah. Oh, she's great.

• 1:19:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:21Joe Rogan?

  I thought of Olivia Newton-John.

• 1:19:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's second. That would have been second.

• 1:19:26Speaker 02

  I've performed for Olivia Wilde, never Olivia Newton-John. What did you get? Did you find out?

• 1:19:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, do you want me to show you the list?

• 1:19:30Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, it's not a trick. I just want to see. Olivia's number one.

• 1:19:34Joe Rogan?

  Emma.

• 1:19:35Speaker 02

  Emma, Amelia, Charlotte, Mia.

• 1:19:37Joe Rogan?

  Mia, Sophia, Isabel, Evelyn. That's interesting. Eight? I would have never imagined that.

• 1:19:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:19:43Joe Rogan?

  Ava, nine.

• 1:19:44Speaker 02

  You did not hear those names when you were growing up. There were probably no girls named Ava when you were a child.

• 1:19:49Joe Rogan?

  No, none of, any of these names. Maybe Olivia after Olivia Newton-John, but that's crazy. Sophia's number 10? That's interesting.

• 1:19:56Speaker 02

  And Sophia's spelled two different ways, so it's technically number one. Jamie?

• 1:19:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 1:20:00Speaker 02

  If I ask you, okay?

• 1:20:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's right. It is. It's spelled P-H-N-F. Wow. Interesting that Sophia is number one, really. Huh, Harper? What's Harper? Eleven, twelve? Camila? Camila number eleven? That's nuts. Eleanor?

• 1:20:18Speaker 02

  Older names are coming back.

• 1:20:20Joe Rogan?

  Violet? Really older names. Yeah, that's like Eleanor. It's like my friend Eleanor Kerrigan. She's in her 50s. Um. Il- Iliana? Iliana's number eighteen?

• 1:20:34Speaker 02

  Didn't know that.

• 1:20:34Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. What are the odds?

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:20:37Joe Rogan?

  What are the odds that, if you told me, is Iliana in the top twenty of names? I'm like, shut the fuck up. Whose names are kid that?

• 1:20:43Speaker 00

  I think someone, someone I know did.

• 1:20:46Joe Rogan?

  It's a beautiful name.

• 1:20:48Speaker 02

  Love that name. Love that name now.

• 1:20:49Joe Rogan?

  It's not a bad name. It's a beautiful name, but it's like, it's like, I would have never thought it was that common.

• 1:20:53Speaker 02

  So when you think of how this is happening, watch this. Jamie, I ask you to come up with somebody absolutely random from your past. Absolutely random.

• 1:21:04Speaker 00

  I dug deep.

• 1:21:04Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:21:05Joe Rogan?

  You already got it?

• 1:21:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:21:06Speaker 02

  You know what? Uh. How do you know this person? Not, oh, you shouldn't have said that.

• 1:21:12Speaker 00

  Oh, sorry.

• 1:21:13Speaker 02

  Shouldn't have said a word, you know, right away.

• 1:21:15Speaker 00

  What did you say? It's from preschool.

• 1:21:16Speaker 02

  Preschool? Somebody in preschool?

• 1:21:17Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:21:18Speaker 02

  You still keep in touch?

• 1:21:19Speaker 00

  That's where I met him. Uh, no.

• 1:21:20Speaker 02

  She said him. Why you say him and then her?

• 1:21:22Speaker 00

  Sorry, I met them is what I guess I was trying to say.

• 1:21:24Speaker 02

  This guy's playing the pronoun game. What's going on here? You know what? No, no, there's too many giveaways. Just said wasn't on the list, doesn't this?

• 1:21:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:21:30Speaker 02

  Let me ask you a question.

• 1:21:31Joe Rogan?

  Want to try again?

• 1:21:32Speaker 02

  No, no, I'm doing something better. We'll switch. This is a glitch in the matrix.

• 1:21:35Speaker 00

  Dude.

• 1:21:36Speaker 02

  Jamie, close your eyes. Close your eyes.

• 1:21:39Speaker 00

  I have to look at this stuff.

• 1:21:40Speaker 02

  You gotta look? Okay, so pretend you're closing your eyes. I'm gonna put you on the spot.

• 1:21:44Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:21:44Speaker 02

  Uh, it's not the preschool girl. I want you to close your eyes, go back in time, and try to picture the face I always call this the one that got your first big crush. Can you visualize her face or you can't see her clearly?

• 1:22:00Speaker 00

  Uh, that's, you asked me this before. It's like a, it's a tough question, because the way you started wording, it was like, is this a first crush for me was like the first person, like I knew. There was like TV people and stuff like that.

• 1:22:12Speaker 02

  Oh, is it a TV person?

• 1:22:13Speaker 00

  That's what it would have been technically, I guess, yeah.

• 1:22:15Speaker 02

  Your first crush was a TV person?

• 1:22:17Speaker 00

  Sure, yeah, someone I saw on TV.

• 1:22:19Speaker 02

  Is that right?

• 1:22:19Speaker 00

  I think so.

• 1:22:20Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:22:21Speaker 00

  I guess, yeah.

• 1:22:22Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know. Is that-

• 1:22:23Speaker 00

  I don't know. I'm trying to-

• 1:22:24Speaker 02

  If I were to ask you to look up how popular this name is, well, no, I'm not gonna do it again. It's not top ten. Is that correct?

• 1:22:30Speaker 00

  Right, it wasn't.

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  Okay, hold on. Look this way at me.

• 1:22:33Speaker 02

  I want you, without using your fingers, to count the number of letters in this person's name.

• 1:22:38Speaker 00

  The real name or the character's name? I don't know if that matters.

• 1:22:42Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't, I, I, I've never had a fictional character as my first crush. This guy got weird. Uh, I don't know, whatever, I don't know whatever name you went with. I, I, don't say it out loud.

• 1:22:50Speaker 00

  I'll go with the fictional character's name.

• 1:22:52Speaker 02

  Don't say, don't say, no, no.

• 1:22:53Speaker 00

  Cause to me, they weren't a real person then, so, you know.

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know.

• 1:22:57Speaker 00

  Eight or nine, I don't know.

• 1:22:58Speaker 02

  Oh, don't say it, oh, no, no, oh, don't tell, oh, man, don't tell me, don't give me any more clues.

• 1:23:01Speaker 00

  You're not gonna figure it out.

• 1:23:02Speaker 02

  Good, alright. You, you know what, do this. Joe, I want you to see this. Should we get a, a piece of paper right down? There's mics everywhere.

• 1:23:09Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:23:10Speaker 02

  Screw it, don't even write down, don't even write down. No, no, not you, I was gonna have him write it down.

• 1:23:13Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:23:15Speaker 02

  Eight or nine. Do, do me a favor.

• 1:23:17Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:23:18Speaker 02

  Count again, but to yourself, don't do it out loud, count to yourself.

• 1:23:21Speaker 00

  What, the letters?

• 1:23:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, don't do it out loud though.

• 1:23:23Speaker 00

  Oh, eight or nine wasn't the letters, but go ahead, yeah.

• 1:23:26Speaker 02

  So confused, alright.

• 1:23:28Speaker 00

  Good.

• 1:23:28Speaker 02

  It's got all over the place. Jamie wants this to go wrong.

• 1:23:31Speaker 00

  He does, I do too.

• 1:23:34Speaker 02

  I don't know if this is the real name or the fake name anymore, but before today, and me asking you to think of this person, be honest.

• 1:23:41Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:23:42Speaker 02

  Would it have been days, months, or literally years before today since this person even crossed your thoughts?

• 1:23:48Speaker 00

  Uh, honestly, this would have been a couple months.

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  Couple months, couple months, could Joe know it?

• 1:23:54Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:23:54Speaker 02

  Alright. Mix up the letters,

• 1:23:58Speaker 02

  and stop like Scrabble tiles. Freeze, and grab out a letter somewhere in the name, maybe grab one out of the middle.

• 1:24:04Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:24:05Speaker 02

  You got it?

• 1:24:06Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:24:07Speaker 02

  He did two and he switched.

• 1:24:08Speaker 00

  I was trying to look to you.

• 1:24:09Speaker 02

  No, no, you did shifty eyes, he did this one and then this one, you didn't do a vowel, did you?

• 1:24:13Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 1:24:14Speaker 02

  Well, you can tell me, it's, it's, you did a vowel after all that? A, E, I, O, U, look at me.

• 1:24:18Speaker 00

  That's the first one I picked.

• 1:24:18Speaker 02

  And you went to the end.

• 1:24:21Speaker 02

  Do you think the last letter?

• 1:24:23Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  The last letter is a vowel though, isn't it?

• 1:24:28Speaker 00

  Sometimes.

• 1:24:28Speaker 02

  It is, here we go.

• 1:24:30Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes why?

• 1:24:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's the only way it's.

• 1:24:34Joe Rogan?

  A, E, I, O, U, and sometimes why?

• 1:24:38Speaker 02

  Take a look. Don't say it, don't say it.

• 1:24:40Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:24:44Speaker 02

  I don't know. This is, who knows?

• 1:24:47Speaker 02

  Was it nine letters? The name is nine letters long, isn't it?

• 1:24:50Speaker 00

  Her, the real person's name is nine letters, I think.

• 1:24:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, the real, and, and, he hadn't thought of this person in months.

• 1:24:57Speaker 00

  And it doesn't in a vowel.

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, it does, I know, I saw, I saw it and you switched the one. And I wrote this down, Joe, you see it, right? I can't change it, no trick here, no BS. What's her name, this first crush? Saw on TV.

• 1:25:06Speaker 00

  Her real name is Christine.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  Christine is what I wrote down. Christine is what I wrote down.

• 1:25:11Speaker 00

  Her fake name's Melody from Hey Dude.

• 1:25:13Speaker 02

  You don't have to tell me, I know.

• 1:25:14Speaker 00

  I know, just saying. Christine Taylor.

• 1:25:17Joe Rogan?

  How'd you know?

• 1:25:20Speaker 00

  There's this, I...

• 1:25:21Speaker 02

  Wait, wait, hold on, right now, right now, I want to try this, here's what I want to try, Joe. How many people, how many people?

• 1:25:27Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck just happened?

• 1:25:28Speaker 02

  Wait, where did I put this?

• 1:25:29Joe Rogan?

  Are you an alien?

• 1:25:30Speaker 02

  Hold on.

• 1:25:30Joe Rogan?

  Do you work for the CIA?

• 1:25:31Speaker 02

  I gotta take a leak like crazy too.

• 1:25:32Joe Rogan?

  You do?

• 1:25:33Speaker 02

  Where's the bag? Dude, I drank like two Gators before I got in here for the run, that was a mistake.

• 1:25:37Joe Rogan?

  What bag?

• 1:25:38Speaker 02

  There's a bag, oh, I didn't bring it.

• 1:25:41Joe Rogan?

  You didn't bring it?

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 1:25:41Joe Rogan?

  Why don't you go pee and get your bag?

• 1:25:42Speaker 02

  No, no, I've got, I've got, I've got, I've got, I've got. Look, I want you to do this. I put together, this is for you. Joe, take these.

• 1:25:51Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:25:51Speaker 02

  Fifty people, ChatGPT.

• 1:25:53Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:25:54Speaker 02

  Look through that list.

• 1:25:55Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:25:57Speaker 02

  And these are all people, I didn't make this up, I just wrote them down.

• 1:26:00Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:26:01Speaker 02

  Who have been on the show multiple times.

• 1:26:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:04Speaker 02

  And that, or, and that, I, how would I describe this? My guess is you have a personal connection, you know these people, is that a fair assessment? Rattle off, if there's anybody in there that you feel is not, fits the bill, or you don't talk to them anymore, throw it away, I don't care.

• 1:26:18Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Yeah, I know all these people.

• 1:26:20Speaker 02

  You know these people?

• 1:26:21Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:26:22Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:26:22Speaker 02

  Not a trick, I'm not gonna guess who it is, I wrote the list, I know who they all are.

• 1:26:26Joe Rogan?

  Got it.

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  I don't care, you wanna mix them, you wanna do so, I don't care, whatever you wanna do.

• 1:26:29Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:26:29Speaker 02

  Once you mix them up, or whatever you wanna do, put them in front of you, please. Like a pile. Turn, kinda... Oh, you're not gonna look, cuz I want it to be, like, random.

• 1:26:38Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:26:39Speaker 02

  Kinda put them in front of you, kinda turn them sideways.

• 1:26:41Joe Rogan?

  Turn them sideways?

• 1:26:42Speaker 02

  Well, I wanna see what you're doing.

• 1:26:43Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:26:45Speaker 02

  And I think we're gonna do this together, I don't know if I'm gonna reach over or not.

• 1:26:47Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:26:48Speaker 02

  Here's what I want you to do.

• 1:26:49Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:26:49Speaker 02

  I want you to take, I'm gonna do it with you, is I want you to lift off like a chunk.

• 1:26:55Joe Rogan?

  A chunk, okay.

• 1:26:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, like a chunk, and put the chunk over.

• 1:26:58Joe Rogan?

  Over here?

• 1:26:59Speaker 02

  No, no, no, like next to you.

• 1:27:00Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:27:00Speaker 02

  Like, I don't know, how do I, can I move over with the mic or no?

• 1:27:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, just come over here.

• 1:27:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:07Joe Rogan?

  Take the headphones off.

• 1:27:08Speaker 02

  Should I take them off or leave them on?

• 1:27:09Joe Rogan?

  Take them off.

• 1:27:10Speaker 02

  Take this.

• 1:27:11Joe Rogan?

  Take this, okay.

• 1:27:13Speaker 02

  Well, take, take the piece, and I want you to take, and the same way that I'm making a bunch of chunks like this,

• 1:27:17Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:27:18Speaker 02

  I want you to take, and I want you to be in charge of this. So take these ones.

• 1:27:22Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:27:22Speaker 02

  And, would you agree that's pretty randomized?

• 1:27:24Joe Rogan?

  Very randomized, okay.

• 1:27:26Speaker 02

  And I wanna assess, right now, there's five of them.

• 1:27:29Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:27:30Speaker 02

  Is, take one of the piles.

• 1:27:32Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:27:32Speaker 02

  And, put it, like, which other pile you going with?

• 1:27:35Joe Rogan?

  Another pile?

• 1:27:36Speaker 02

  Like, point to another one.

• 1:27:38Joe Rogan?

  Okay, this one? How about this one?

• 1:27:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, perfect. And I want you, don't show me.

• 1:27:41Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:27:42Speaker 02

  I want you, like, grab that one.

• 1:27:44Joe Rogan?

  Alright.

• 1:27:45Speaker 02

  The card.

• 1:27:45Joe Rogan?

  The card on top?

• 1:27:46Speaker 02

  Ah, wherever you want. Take it, grab it, and look at that person's name.

• 1:27:49Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:27:49Speaker 02

  And don't let me see it. How likely, if you were to text this person, do you think would they answer?

• 1:27:55Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  Oh, you sure?

• 1:27:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, hundred percent.

• 1:27:58Speaker 02

  Uh, most of the list was a guy, guys. Is it a guy?

• 1:28:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:01Speaker 02

  Okay, not judging, a lot of dudes on the show. Put them all back together.

• 1:28:04Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:28:05Speaker 02

  Let's assess this. I don't wanna know who it is, I don't care who it is. As long, I wanna see, and if they're not gonna answer, I would tell you to text somebody new. Text this person, in your own words, and say, I don't know, Uh, uh, got a minute, need a favor. And see if he texts back. If he doesn't, we go to somebody new. We'll give it like, I don't know, fifteen, twenty minutes.

• 1:28:23Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Can I tell him what's going on?

• 1:28:26Speaker 02

  I would hedge and not say yet, because I, I wanna see where he goes with it, because if you tell him, like, I, I don't care, but I wanna, I wanna keep this very, I don't want him to know where we're going yet.

• 1:28:38Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Should I tell him to text me back?

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  Right, yeah, I guess text me back, that works.

• 1:28:44Joe Rogan?

  Hey, brother, do me a favor and text me back as soon as you get this.

• 1:28:48Speaker 02

  It's gonna sound like someone's dying, but okay.

• 1:28:50Joe Rogan?

  The world depends on it.

• 1:28:53Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:28:54Speaker 02

  Alright, and put it down, we'll revisit later.

• 1:29:00Speaker 02

  Pressures. Let's see, let's check back in a few minutes.

• 1:29:03Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:29:03Speaker 02

  Will it vibrate if he did?

• 1:29:05Joe Rogan?

  Uh, no, I have it on do not disturb, but I'll take it off. There we go. Okay.

• 1:29:12Joe Rogan?

  Um, he's very busy, so he might not be in front of his phone.

• 1:29:15Speaker 02

  No worries. If it doesn't go, we'll give it some time, and if not, we'll switch gears.

• 1:29:20Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:29:20Speaker 02

  But, uh, turn your phone face down so you don't think I can see it. I don't wanna know

• 1:29:23Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:29:23Speaker 02

  who, what, where.

• 1:29:24Joe Rogan?

  Alrighty.

• 1:29:25Speaker 02

  We'll revisit, we'll come back.

• 1:29:26Joe Rogan?

  I'll put it in my lap, so I feel it when it vibrates.

• 1:29:28Speaker 02

  Oh, I'll pee later. I'm holding it in, though. I knew the Joe Rogan effect.

• 1:29:36Joe Rogan?

  Okay. We're just gonna sit here and wait for him to text?

• 1:29:39Speaker 02

  No, no, no, we'll check back in later.

• 1:29:41Joe Rogan?

  That seems ridiculous.

• 1:29:42Speaker 02

  Is it?

• 1:29:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because he could be working out, he could be doing anything.

• 1:29:45Speaker 02

  So if we get it, it's meant to be. This is, uh, we'll see.

• 1:29:48Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:29:48Speaker 02

  It's not, it's not pressing.

• 1:29:49Joe Rogan?

  You have an idea who it is?

• 1:29:50Speaker 02

  I, I don't know. I, I can look through the list again. It's not Cam Haynes, is it? After you said all that?

• 1:29:55Joe Rogan?

  Was someone popping into your head?

• 1:29:56Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna guess who it is.

• 1:29:57Joe Rogan?

  Not at all?

• 1:29:58Speaker 02

  No, because here's the reason why. If we reveal stuff, I don't want you to, if, if I guess like something very specific about this person that will, like, he might not want everyone to know his ATM PIN code or social security number.

• 1:30:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you're gonna guess his, too?

• 1:30:10Speaker 02

  I don't know what I'm gonna do yet, but I don't want, you could tip it, but he's gonna be pretty pissed if everybody finds out something, so I prefer if nobody knows yet, but if, if we wanna, you'll see.

• 1:30:21Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Okay.

• 1:30:23Speaker 02

  Take it to the next level. Jamie's in the room.

• 1:30:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:30:26Speaker 02

  But what if we could just get anyone who you could have picked, anybody you know?

• 1:30:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:30:29Speaker 02

  Now it's different.

• 1:30:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:30:31Speaker 02

  Now it's never been done before.

• 1:30:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:30:33Speaker 02

  You ask me, what do I wake up with, thinking about? How could I do this?

• 1:30:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, how are you gonna do this?

• 1:30:37Speaker 02

  I don't know, let's see if it works.

• 1:30:39Joe Rogan?

  Let's see if it works. So... Okay, so you did, oh, you got me.

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  He did?

• 1:30:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:44Speaker 02

  Okay. Uh, here's the thing. I think that if I were you, I'd say later, well, texting, what if somebody saw something? No, no, no, I haven't, I don't give any clues yet. If you're, there's microphones everywhere. We just asked him to think of his first crush, but he did like someone fictional and like, that's a...

• 1:31:02Joe Rogan?

  Can I tell him I'm in the middle of a show?

• 1:31:04Speaker 02

  It's, maybe, say, say I'm in the middle of a show.

• 1:31:07Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:31:09Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:31:10Speaker 02

  And say, uh, we're doing a bit. I, I, do you wanna call him? Because if you're texting this, do you wanna call him, or do you wanna text him?

• 1:31:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, if I call him, people are gonna hear his voice.

• 1:31:19Speaker 02

  No, but what if you call him and you just go over there? Which one's better to you? Which one's more impossible? Where later you go, "There's just no frickin' way." Is it better if he texts you, or is it better if he calls you? What do you think is just more impossible?

• 1:31:31Joe Rogan?

  I could have him call me.

• 1:31:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, why not? Do this, have him call you in a second. You'll go over there, where there's no microphone. And I want you to ask this guy the same question I asked Jamie. Do you remember the name of the first girl you had a big crush on? And sometimes people don't remember, I just want you to know, I've done this a lot.

• 1:31:50Joe Rogan?

  Should I ask him that?

• 1:31:51Speaker 02

  Uh, not yet. I would do it on the phone.

• 1:31:53Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:31:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, screw it. Ask him that.

• 1:31:54Joe Rogan?

  Okay, do...

• 1:32:00Joe Rogan?

  Okay, hold on a second. I should've just did it with voice.

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  No, no, 'cause then, well, yeah. Nobody's listening to this, I'm sure.

• 1:32:08Joe Rogan?

  No, but I mean, it's quicker.

• 1:32:16Speaker 02

  Don't tell me what he says.

• 1:32:17Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:32:18Speaker 02

  If he says no, a lot of people don't remember this question.

• 1:32:20Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:32:20Speaker 02

  So then I hedge, and I go, "Well, who's, who's the first girl you ever kissed?" Let's see, but make sure there's absolutely no way I can see what's on your phone right now.

• 1:32:27Joe Rogan?

  You can't see.

• 1:32:28Speaker 02

  Boom, get that tight.

• 1:32:29Joe Rogan?

  You can't see, bitch.

• 1:32:31Speaker 02

  Just getting mad.

• 1:32:32Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:32:33Speaker 02

  Does he know, or he doesn't know?

• 1:32:34Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:32:34Speaker 02

  He knows?

• 1:32:35Joe Rogan?

  Yep, right away.

• 1:32:36Speaker 02

  Did he tell you?

• 1:32:36Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:32:37Speaker 02

  No shit.

• 1:32:37Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:32:38Speaker 02

  Ask him, "Is it the same as the first girl he ever kissed?"

• 1:32:50Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:32:51Speaker 02

  See what he says.

• 1:32:52Joe Rogan?

  Here we go.

• 1:32:55Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  Does he remember her name too?

• 1:32:58Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:33:06Speaker 02

  There we go.

• 1:33:11Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:33:11Speaker 02

  Two weeks ago, right? No, I'm kidding.

• 1:33:13Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 1:33:14Speaker 02

  Put it, put away. You have two names in your head.

• 1:33:16Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:33:16Speaker 02

  Can we establish the fact that you have 50 people that have been on your show?

• 1:33:21Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:33:21Speaker 02

  That you took anybody?

• 1:33:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:33:23Speaker 02

  If this person would have texted back, text somebody else. I don't care who it is.

• 1:33:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:33:26Speaker 02

  There is no conceivable way. This isn't a bank that gave you a number.

• 1:33:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:33:30Speaker 02

  And if he didn't know who it is, we would have done something different. I don't care. Put the phone away.

• 1:33:34Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:33:36Speaker 02

  How am I gonna do this?

• 1:33:37Joe Rogan?

  How are you gonna do this?

• 1:33:38Speaker 02

  How am I gonna do this? Right? And he said, what happens when it goes wrong? Nothing. I'm not getting paid to be here. I don't care.

• 1:33:44Joe Rogan?

  You're freaking me out.

• 1:33:45Speaker 02

  Think of both names. They're different. He had two different people.

• 1:33:48Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:33:49Speaker 02

  The same way that you did 2020 and you didn't know. Think of both names and I want you to juggle back and forth between the two. The first kiss and the first crush.

• 1:33:57Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:33:58Speaker 02

  And, uh, is one name more interesting to you or like they're equal? Or is one name more interesting or not really?

• 1:34:05Joe Rogan?

  Um, not really.

• 1:34:07Speaker 02

  Not, okay. So you don't like, if you gravitate, I would have been like, go to one. Okay. Count the number of letters in the first crush to yourself. Don't use your fingers. I can see. Count the number of letters to yourself for the first crush.

• 1:34:18Joe Rogan?

  I do those, psych you out.

• 1:34:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:20Joe Rogan?

  I started doing those.

• 1:34:22Speaker 02

  And then count the number of letters in the first kiss. Oh, you looked up. Interesting.

• 1:34:32Speaker 02

  They're not equal. Can you agree with me? They're not the same amount of letters, are they?

• 1:34:36Joe Rogan?

  No, they're not.

• 1:34:36Speaker 02

  No, see, because you'd have had the same reaction. Do you know when you put somebody in a polygraph test? Have you ever been polygraphed?

• 1:34:42Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:34:44Speaker 02

  They can't just ask you the questions right away. They can't because they first have to get your benchmark. Same way, blood doping. You gotta test someone's blood against their blood. People have different amounts of testosterone naturally. So I had to see how you would do each one.

• 1:34:57Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:34:58Speaker 02

  And then you did the thing with the eyes that threw me off. The first crush, is that name shorter than the first kiss?

• 1:35:07Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:35:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. Go to the first crush. I'm gonna go with that one. Less work for me.

• 1:35:11Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:35:12Speaker 02

  One more time. Count the letters.

• 1:35:13Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:35:14Speaker 02

  And you were trying to avoid it. Six letters. Is that name six letters?

• 1:35:18Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:35:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:21Speaker 02

  Mix up all the letters.

• 1:35:22Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  In that first crush's name. Forget the first kiss. Scrap it.

• 1:35:25Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:35:27Speaker 02

  And pick any one. In your head. You got one?

• 1:35:29Joe Rogan?

  Got it.

• 1:35:30Speaker 02

  Jamie gave me a gift on a platter. Thought of a vowel. When he did that, it was a hundred percent you wouldn't pick a vowel later. You didn't do a vowel in the name, did you?

• 1:35:39Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:35:40Speaker 02

  Dude, I'm here for a reason. Right? I haven't done this. I've been doing this for a long time.

• 1:35:44Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:35:44Speaker 02

  Told you. Goal is to be the best in the world at this.

• 1:35:46Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:35:47Speaker 02

  I have watched. I know everything you just did. Second letter. Do you think it's a second letter?

• 1:35:51Joe Rogan?

  I will.

• 1:35:52Speaker 02

  Hmm. M. Amanda. Is the name Amanda?

• 1:35:55Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:35:57Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck did you just do?

• 1:35:58Speaker 02

  And you will talk about this for years.

• 1:36:01Joe Rogan?

  Hold on a second. I'm texting him back.

• 1:36:07Joe Rogan?

  Can you figure out the second one?

• 1:36:09Speaker 02

  No, I'm done, man. Come on. That's showbiz. You do your closer, you drop the mic and you pick the mic back up? Never.

• 1:36:16Joe Rogan?

  Do you want to know who it was?

• 1:36:16Speaker 02

  No, I don't want to know.

• 1:36:19Speaker 01

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• 1:37:05Joe Rogan?

  My friend said you're a witch. And he said, "Kill him now."

• 1:37:11Speaker 02

  Definitely a comedian. Definitely a comedian after that. It's definitely a comedian.

• 1:37:14Joe Rogan?

  It might not be. I hang out with a lot of weird people.

• 1:37:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:21Speaker 02

  I don't know how to go back to conversation mode, am I right? And I got pissed like a racer, what do I do?

• 1:37:25Joe Rogan?

  Go pee, go pee.

• 1:37:26Speaker 02

  Do I pee or no, do we, do we keep going? Do we go strong?

• 1:37:29Joe Rogan?

  With this?

• 1:37:29Speaker 02

  No, I'm just saying, we'll, we'll recalibrate.

• 1:37:32Joe Rogan?

  It's always easier to pee.

• 1:37:33Speaker 02

  Is that alright?

• 1:37:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's perfect because you don't wanna, it's too hard to form sentences when you have to pee.

• 1:37:38Speaker 02

  Alright, I'm gonna take a quick leak.

• 1:37:39Joe Rogan?

  Quick break, we'll be right back.

• 1:37:40Speaker 02

  Rapid fire. Are we back?

• 1:37:42Joe Rogan?

  We're back.

• 1:37:43Speaker 02

  Whew, lightning. I feel like, uh, brand new, yeah, oh yeah.

• 1:37:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know the feeling.

• 1:37:47Speaker 02

  I was sitting on it.

• 1:37:48Joe Rogan?

  You rehydrate.

• 1:37:49Speaker 02

  And I drank so much Gatorade right before and I was like, oh, party foul, should've thought that one through.

• 1:37:53Joe Rogan?

  27 miles, deserve a little Gatorade. So, do you wanna know who it was yet?

• 1:37:58Speaker 02

  Uh, it's up to you. I, I like hanging, uh, hanging thread, but it's up to you.

• 1:38:02Joe Rogan?

  But what is the purpose of hanging the thread?

• 1:38:05Speaker 02

  No, I guess, tell us at the end.

• 1:38:06Joe Rogan?

  Can you tell me who it is?

• 1:38:07Speaker 02

  I could, but come on, I, no, I'll tell you at the end.

• 1:38:10Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:38:11Speaker 02

  You already gave the comedian, you said this.

• 1:38:13Joe Rogan?

  I didn't say comedian, you said comedian.

• 1:38:15Speaker 02

  He's a witch, kill him, 100%. 100%, that's not Ben Shapiro, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:38:21Speaker 00

  Oh, as you say witch?

• 1:38:22Speaker 02

  Did he, did he tell you?

• 1:38:24Speaker 00

  No, no, no.

• 1:38:24Speaker 02

  I took the quickest pee of my life, I raced over there.

• 1:38:27Joe Rogan?

  No, I didn't tell him shit.

• 1:38:27Speaker 02

  You didn't tell him?

• 1:38:28Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't want him to know.

• 1:38:29Speaker 00

  Curious, do you think that there's people that knew this shit back in the days of witches? They figured out some of the powers, maybe, not powers, but like that you know how to do.

• 1:38:36Speaker 02

  I think that 100% psychics of the past used a lot of the same techniques I'm using, cuz when I watch psychics, and I have, people always tell me at certain things, they tell me like, oh, you know, uh, I saw a psychic do this and this and this, and I hear it and I go to myself, you know, I could do that same trick and I could, no offense, do it better. But, think about it, I'm doing this right now from, with an ethical compass, versus if I go, oh, I'm getting this and I thought about this and this is what happened with your dad, and you're like, oh my god, you know, I'm like, well, it's only 25 grand more to have a private session, let's talk to him a little bit more.

• 1:39:04Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 1:39:05Speaker 02

  I'm not saying there's nobody psychic, I'm telling you that a lot of the psychics, I'm watching them, like, I know how you're doing that.

• 1:39:11Speaker 00

  That was my other question, was gonna be, has any, have you caught anyone trying to get some stuff by you? Like, I don't know.

• 1:39:16Speaker 02

  Like a psychic, you mean?

• 1:39:17Speaker 00

  Not a psychic, you're buying a car and someone's trying to pull some trick and you're like, ah, I know what you're about to do here.

• 1:39:22Speaker 02

  Well, 100%, you know, not a shameless plug, but like, I literally write, I wrote a book, it's coming out in October, where it's all about, it's called Read Your Mind, and it's not me telling you how to be a mentalist, because 99.9% of people don't wanna guess a first crush, it's not useful to you in your life. But what if you could read people more effectively to help you in your life, at home, at work, in relationships? That is a quantifiable thing that the tools of a mentalist, when not used for entertainment, but in life, day to day, are extraordinary.

• 1:39:52Joe Rogan?

  For sure.

• 1:39:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, you must be great at all kinds of things because of this.

• 1:39:57Speaker 02

  I don't know about that.

• 1:39:58Joe Rogan?

  Anything dealing with human beings.

• 1:39:59Speaker 02

  Right, negotiating.

• 1:40:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I would imagine.

• 1:40:02Speaker 02

  I've never sold a property at a loss, let's just say that, it's been pretty good so far. You get in there, you're like, "I won't take a dollar less," I'm like, "I know you will, I know you will."

• 1:40:11Joe Rogan?

  That's funny, that's funny. What a weird skill to have.

• 1:40:15Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:40:16Joe Rogan?

  What's a good book?

• 1:40:17Speaker 02

  A good book?

• 1:40:18Joe Rogan?

  To read on this.

• 1:40:19Speaker 02

  Well, on becoming a mentalist, or...

• 1:40:22Joe Rogan?

  And any of these skills, like, what did you start with? Do you remember the book you started with?

• 1:40:26Speaker 02

  Do you mean if you want to learn how to do mentalism?

• 1:40:28Joe Rogan?

  Do you remember the book that you started with, when you first started learning this stuff?

• 1:40:31Speaker 02

  So, the first book I started reading was a book called Thirteen Steps to Mentalism, but man, is it gonna be tough for most people, because it was written in the 1920s, so it's kinda like, you know, it's like watching an old movie, no offense to old movies, but I'm like, "Oh, it's hard to get into this," with my attention span now, because it's antiquated. Some of it still applies, but you have to really do a big reach to know, "How do I apply this?" Because back then, there were no TVs, there were no phones, there's no... It just, that's what I started with, but I had to learn the hard way. So much of what I do now is, again, I told you, is I don't really do what other people do, because, I don't know how to explain, it's... They create different, right? If you were building a house and you have all these tools, you're gonna build using your tools. Does that, does that make sense?

• 1:41:15Speaker 02

  So, I've got this set of tools, I knew a hammer does this, I do that, I create with the house already built. So, my vision, again, and why, what's been a differentiating feature, is I build with that person at the end in mind, and I already know what the house is gonna be, I know what the memory, I know what you're gonna say, like... CNBC, do you ever watch that channel?

• 1:41:34Joe Rogan?

  I try not to.

• 1:41:36Speaker 02

  So CNBC, Fox Business are financial channels. I have been on those channels dozens of times. How many other mentalists or magicians have ever been on them? Zero. Why is that? Because it's unusual, that's a serious network, why do you put me on? Because I do stuff around the markets. And so if you're watching it, you buy in because my stuff's about stock market, interest rates, all stuff. And it's like, this is crazy, but it had to do with stuff I know. So the same thing, when I do ESPN, I'm creating from a different perspective than most. I customize the content. Like when I do a corporate event, I learn in and out your business. And when I go up there, I sneak in the medicine. So now, you're actually, your people aren't just seeing a show, they're getting messaging

• 1:42:20Speaker 02

  and they're getting it in a way where they don't tune out because they don't realize they're being spoken to. It's mostly entertainment. But boom, I planted those thoughts. And you leave there with, you know, what's the product launch? What's this? All those things are now internalized and remembered.

• 1:42:35Joe Rogan?

  And this 13 steps that was, you said it was written in the 1920s?

• 1:42:38Speaker 02

  Oh, fact check me, but I think it was the 20s.

• 1:42:40Joe Rogan?

  What did this guy do? What was his job? He was a mentalist?

• 1:42:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, but there were no mentalists back then. There were just a few people, but they was mostly, they were telling you the skills of psychics. They were showing you how psychics did stuff. And it wasn't really debunking, but they're showing you all the tools, the 13 steps. Like what are the ways that we can read people more effectively? And what are the tricks of the trade of what we do? Right? Like how do you know when someone's counting something like that, right? And you're counting the letters, you know? Because to me, you might as well be playing drums. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like if you're playing drums and I have an ear for it, I can hear the beats. So, once you learn how to do certain things, they build on top. I can, if you're counting letters, like again, names are anywhere from three to 12 letters. It's not rocket science for me to figure it out. And again, I can't do it in a vacuum.

• 1:43:27Speaker 02

  If you turned your back and said, I'm not, no, I'm not doing anything, not, again, if you controlled the environment. I can't do it as well.

• 1:43:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:43:34Speaker 02

  It goes back to that fear thing. If I started messing up right now, you'd be like, oh, it's getting awkward and you would pull back and I wouldn't be in control anymore.

• 1:43:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:43:43Speaker 02

  So like a lot of what I'm doing is, is I'm, you know, showing you how I can read you, but also you're allowing yourself to be read.

• 1:43:51Joe Rogan?

  Right. So like when you're saying, count the letters, you can see me counting them.

• 1:43:55Speaker 02

  I can see when you're counting, I can see when you try to throw me off the count. It's like a poker player. Poker player knows if you really have aces, pocket aces, or you have two, four, and you're bluffing, the best ones do.

• 1:44:05Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:44:06Speaker 02

  Which brings the question up, why don't I play poker more?

• 1:44:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, why don't you play poker?

• 1:44:10Speaker 02

  It's just, it's too boring. Like I, that's a grind, man. I'd rather make money doing this.

• 1:44:16Joe Rogan?

  This is one and a half speed.

• 1:44:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:18Joe Rogan?

  Your whole life is one and a half speed. That's wild. That's really interesting. I, I'm fascinated. No, I think I'm gonna read one of those books. I'm gonna probably get that one.

• 1:44:27Speaker 02

  I'm gonna send you one. I'll try and find a better one.

• 1:44:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, that one seems interesting too, because I wanna, I wanna read the origins. I wanna read it like when it first started out.

• 1:44:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:35Joe Rogan?

  What was it like in 1920? Like what did he learn and where did he learn it? Is it, you find it?

• 1:44:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:40Speaker 00

  1950-ish or so.

• 1:44:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, 19, well.

• 1:44:42Speaker 00

  But it's also not known.

• 1:44:44Joe Rogan?

  This is the guy?

• 1:44:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:44:45Joe Rogan?

  So he's born in the 1930s?

• 1:44:47Speaker 02

  Oh, I screwed this up. It was in 1920. So no, the other one's 13 Steps. There's another one by Theodore Anamena.

• 1:44:51Joe Rogan?

  He did not make his birthplace public. Oh, you fucking sneaky bitch. He's a sneaky bitch. He's the first mentalist and he's sneaky. Though it was believed to have been Mill Hill suburb of London, for unknown reasons, he renamed himself Tony Corinda. Corinda.

• 1:45:06Speaker 02

  Corinda.

• 1:45:07Joe Rogan?

  So he's born Thomas William Simpson and he renamed himself, for some reason, Tony Corinda, a variation of the surname Conradi. Uh, when he began working as a mentalist. In 1950, he opened up a shop where he sold all manner of stage magic goods, but catered especially to mentalists. Later took over the Magic Shop on Oxford Street. The shop was at street level and thus catered mainly to the regular public, so that many of the items sold were either practical jokes or beginners' tricks. But items for semi-professional magicians and hobbyists were also sold. Around the same period, Corinda had the Magic Concession in Hamley's Toy Shop on Regent Street. Interesting. So the book, 13 Steps to Mentalism was in 1961.

• 1:45:51Joe Rogan?

  Uh, so he wrote a series of 13 booklets on mentalism between 56 and 58. Each one dealing with a different aspect of mentalism or allied art. Interesting.

• 1:46:03Speaker 02

  I'm getting you a copy.

• 1:46:04Joe Rogan?

  I am, I'll buy it. Is it reprinted? Or is it one of those ones you have to buy?

• 1:46:08Speaker 02

  No, it's definitely reprinted. And see, it's since become to be the essential mentalism reference book. But again, you're gonna have a big problem because you're gonna read that book and if you make it through to the end, which God bless you if you can, you're gonna be like, "Yeah, but how the hell did you do all this stuff?" It's not gonna... You're gonna get to the end of it and been like, "So it's, that's baby steps." And then you've gotta like, yeah, get to the next level.

• 1:46:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I'm sure. I'm not thinking I'm gonna get all the information from that. But I'm curious as to like, what the origins of it was. Like, how did this guy devise these things? Like, how did he figure it out?

• 1:46:35Speaker 02

  Psychics. So it's again, people with psychics want to believe. Anyone who's in that room who paid that money to hear psychic has someone they've lost, and they want something with them. Because there's, you know...

• 1:46:46Joe Rogan?

  Do you believe in any psychic powers at all?

• 1:46:49Speaker 02

  So, again, I'm not like a debunker, because I'm kinda like agnostic in this thing, which is, I just believe what I've seen so far. And in a lot of instances, I've never personally experienced something that I couldn't explain yet, but a lot of people have told me their experiences.

• 1:47:04Joe Rogan?

  Have you heard of the telepathy tapes?

• 1:47:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that... I know you had her in here, but that's... Have you watched the videos? I mean, come on.

• 1:47:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. That's wild.

• 1:47:13Speaker 02

  No, no. I'm the opposite. I do not think that's real.

• 1:47:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:47:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 1:47:17Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:47:17Joe Rogan?

  Why? Tell me about what the videos... Can we show the videos?

• 1:47:21Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know. If you've got the paywall, again, I don't wanna controversial, but... They're holding, in many instances, in that form of communication, the person who knows the information is holding the letters. Do you understand what I'm saying? So right now, if I had shown you a word, and you're either touching somebody... You could get... Do you know what a two-person code act is?

• 1:47:43Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:47:44Speaker 02

  So a two-person code act is like a mentalist thing with two people. There's a few that are the best in the world, Abessins, Mind2Mind in Dubai, like a few really good ones who've done this. And what they do is they can be blindfolded in a different area, and anything you hand to them, anything you say, the other person knows it. No electronics, no nothing. They just look at your credit card and they'll guess the credit card numbers. And what the way that's being done is they're communicating to each other based on pauses, based on like, a million ways that you can't think of. It's the best code act ever, without speaking. And you'll watch it, and you'll be like, "There's no way they're communicating." But they are. And so it looks like telepathy, but it's not. You get them in the room with scientists, you'll fool every scientist under the sun. What they're doing is like not bulletproof at all with the kids and again, God bless.

• 1:48:28Speaker 02

  If I had a child in that condition, I for not one moment wouldn't want a solution. And I would want something to know that they're not, that they're in there and I could talk to them. And I don't want to speak out of turn, but from the videos I've seen, I can explain that in a minute. They're, they are moving things around and positioning the letters. If you do a double blind study where the person does not know the word that they're trying to communicate. I'm not even saying psychic, just don't tell them the word, the person holding it. And only show the word to the person who should be saying it, right?

• 1:48:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:48:58Speaker 02

  If you're the autistic child, show them the words so that I see it. And then have them type that word in and do that for me nine out of 10 times. And they have not been able to do that. That's not even psychic. That's just show to me that you can type the word in that you saw. And so when you do like a deep dive on that, it's been...

• 1:49:16Joe Rogan?

  She offered to have someone come in with their parent and do that. Would you do that with us?

• 1:49:22Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:49:23Joe Rogan?

  So you could like show how they're doing it?

• 1:49:24Speaker 02

  I don't want to take anyone's hope away. I'm a parent and like, again, I don't think they're making money on it. And I like, I'm very, I don't like to, again, when you ask me psychics, there's people had real deep experiences. And who is it for me to take that away? But when I watch that and you're like talking to somebody who's a pro at doing this, same as psychics, I can see exactly how that's done.

• 1:49:43Joe Rogan?

  But what did you think about their ability to read languages that they've never studied?

• 1:49:47Speaker 02

  So again, you're missing it. So that's, again, the devil's in the details. It's the memory, what you remember of the story. Show me how they did that. Did either of the people there, present, know that language who was doing it? And how was that being communicated? Did the end person who's moving the board around know what the meaning of the word was? Do you understand what I mean?

• 1:50:07Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:50:08Speaker 02

  So like, again, you're hearing the, the Cliff's Notes, the end edition. Watch the video and show me something that I can't, there was nothing I saw in that special or that, in that telepathy tape in the videos that I couldn't readily explain.

• 1:50:20Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:50:21Speaker 02

  That's correct.

• 1:50:22Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. Very interesting.

• 1:50:23Speaker 02

  So could it be right? Yes. I'm not saying it's not. I'm not, again, they could be 100% right and I could be 100% wrong, hubris.

• 1:50:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:50:32Speaker 02

  I haven't been in the room with them. I'm judging simply from videos I've seen. But as someone who is for a living pretending to read people's minds, but I'm actually reading people, I can see how it's being done. The method, it's kind of like a casino boss. I see how that person's cheating when they're playing cards. Cause I know all the cheating methods.

• 1:50:50Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. Um, the other thing that they said was these kids all have this area that they go to called the hill.

• 1:50:57Speaker 02

  Yup.

• 1:50:58Joe Rogan?

  They go to their, what do you think of that?

• 1:50:59Speaker 02

  So again, I, I, I heard it. It was unbelievable. Like the podcast was incredible. I don't know. I, I don't like, I, I, you know, I've heard psychics tell me, people tell me I saw a psychic. And how do you know that my friend died after we saw Grateful Dead concert and did, I'm like, well, I don't know. I'm seeing a lot of stuff on you that looks Grateful Dead vibes. Like, like if I told you that you're a big Roger Waters fan, you'd be like, how did you know that right now? So for everyone not looking, Joe's wearing a Pink Floyd shirt. Like, you can, you can figure out a lot of stuff based on cold reading. I can see what's the wear on your wedding band? How do you behave? What are certain things? When do you pause at a certain moment about certain things? Did you lose someone? I can tell instantly if you're having a feeling of emotion. Like, anyone good at this, and not even great, but like, good,

• 1:51:42Speaker 02

  can notice a lot of things. Like a psychic just watches you.

• 1:51:45Joe Rogan?

  So you can kind of tell like what a person's done that day?

• 1:51:48Speaker 02

  Well, I think you can get like, you can guide them to what you want, which is when you get a hit, right? Think of that game when you're a kid, hot, cold. You hide stuff.

• 1:51:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:51:57Speaker 02

  Right? Your brother or sister looks around and they go, cold, cold.

• 1:52:01Joe Rogan?

  Do you think I woke up early today or late?

• 1:52:03Speaker 02

  I don't know. There's no on-demand feature to the show. I think you woke up early though.

• 1:52:07Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:52:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:08Joe Rogan?

  Why do you think that?

• 1:52:09Speaker 02

  I don't know. Just based on what you've said it?

• 1:52:10Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Nope. Woke up late.

• 1:52:12Speaker 02

  Good. I got it wrong. I'm happy. I'm happy. You'll be like, we screwed this guy. Finally we got O's and it was at a 50/50.

• 1:52:19Joe Rogan?

  Uh, it was, yeah, that was just a random.

• 1:52:21Speaker 02

  Coin flip.

• 1:52:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was.

• 1:52:22Speaker 02

  We'll do a coin flip before I leave.

• 1:52:24Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Who has coins anymore?

• 1:52:27Speaker 02

  I brought one coin.

• 1:52:28Joe Rogan?

  I heard that there's a penny that's in circulation that's worth millions of dollars.

• 1:52:31Speaker 02

  I heard that too.

• 1:52:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that wheat penny? The one with the wheat on the side of it?

• 1:52:34Speaker 02

  My buddy Louis House had, I saw that on my social. He found one.

• 1:52:37Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:52:37Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 1:52:38Joe Rogan?

  Whoa. It's fucking super valuable.

• 1:52:40Speaker 02

  Worth millions. I'd be like, yo, give me that wheat penny.

• 1:52:42Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. A penny worth millions. Um, okay. So what's in the, um, the one that's sealed, that package?

• 1:52:51Speaker 02

  No, that's, that's nothing. I was gonna, I was gonna get it out, but I'll do it later. It was a gift. No, it's, no, it's something silly.

• 1:52:58Joe Rogan?

  Why do I not believe you?

• 1:52:59Speaker 02

  No, I swear, I swear. I thought I would have it out, but nah.

• 1:53:02Joe Rogan?

  You thought you'd have it out, but you don't want to have it out?

• 1:53:05Speaker 02

  Not the right fit.

• 1:53:06Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean?

• 1:53:07Speaker 02

  No, I was gonna do something. You had a lot of books here, and I thought we'd get a book, but like eh, I don't think I'm gonna do it. Just doesn't feel right, no.

• 1:53:14Joe Rogan?

  What feels wrong?

• 1:53:15Speaker 02

  Self-cure- I don't know. It's not gonna work.

• 1:53:17Joe Rogan?

  You gotta go on instincts?

• 1:53:18Speaker 02

  You gotta go on instincts, it's not gonna work.

• 1:53:19Joe Rogan?

  It's not gonna work?

• 1:53:20Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 1:53:20Joe Rogan?

  What was the goal to get it to work? You could say it now, since we're not gonna do it.

• 1:53:24Speaker 02

  The goal to get it to work was, I thought I had some sort of, I thought I know if I get you to get a book, we have less books in this room, we have books in that room, I just... I don't know. I brought it in, I always have a backup plan. Plan A, B, C, and this one's not meant for this one. This one might be if I ever come back and do another JRE.

• 1:53:41Joe Rogan?

  We'll put it in the safe.

• 1:53:42Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:53:43Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:53:43Speaker 02

  Do it!

• 1:53:43Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:53:44Speaker 02

  That's a great idea.

• 1:53:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we'll put it in the safe.

• 1:53:45Speaker 02

  Put it in the safe. I'll never touch it again.

• 1:53:47Joe Rogan?

  Okay, we won't touch it either. Let's make sure that we know it's sealed. You know what you do-

• 1:53:50Speaker 02

  Two bricks of cocaine, you're in big trouble. Uh, no.

• 1:53:52Joe Rogan?

  We should get a wax seal.

• 1:53:54Speaker 02

  Yeah?

• 1:53:55Joe Rogan?

  You know, like Game of Thrones style?

• 1:53:57Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 1:53:57Joe Rogan?

  Seal it.

• 1:53:59Speaker 02

  I love that show.

• 1:54:00Joe Rogan?

  Great show.

• 1:54:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:02Speaker 00

  We can't play this, but I found one of the tapes that someone put on YouTube. Do you wanna, it's only a one minute.

• 1:54:07Joe Rogan?

  Alright, let's watch it for us. Let's watch it for us. We can't play it because it's copyright?

• 1:54:11Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:54:12Speaker 02

  If you, right now, got the best two-person Kodak in the world in here, they would do nothing. She would literally be in another, she could be a hundred feet away behind this person's back.

• 1:54:22Joe Rogan?

  Cause she's touching him?

• 1:54:24Speaker 02

  Touching, moving, I mean, like, those are for letters. You only have 26 options. Do you have any idea what this is right there? Somebody effective right now, just this right now, and pausing before they say a word could have given you a full credit card number.

• 1:54:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:54:36Speaker 02

  Insane.

• 1:54:36Joe Rogan?

  She was kinda moving him a little bit there.

• 1:54:38Speaker 02

  Moving him, like, if you could, if you can, how do you compress data? Right? Like, if you do hexadecimal or ASCII, you could take a sixteen-digit number and break it down into three letters. Do you ever see the movie The Martian?

• 1:54:51Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:54:52Speaker 02

  Great movie, right?

• 1:54:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:52Speaker 02

  Another Matt Damon reference.

• 1:54:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:54Speaker 02

  Love Matt Damon, by the way.

• 1:54:55Joe Rogan?

  Me too.

• 1:54:56Speaker 02

  Um, has he been on here?

• 1:54:57Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:54:57Speaker 02

  Such a good dude?

• 1:54:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I talked to somebody about getting him on, like, he was gonna reach out, "We're gonna do it eventually," I'm sure.

• 1:55:02Speaker 02

  I love that guy.

• 1:55:03Joe Rogan?

  He's awesome.

• 1:55:04Speaker 02

  Met him a couple times, love him. As nice as you'd expect. So, if you can, in that movie, in The Martian, he didn't know how to send data, cuz he only had the camera, so he shows a thing where he figured out how to take and compress big things into small. What's the easiest way? You can make it very small, so you can send information in a certain way. Again, I don't wanna blow any of this cover, but there is absolutely, when I see that, I, I know exactly how it's being done. But I don't know if she's doing it on purpose. I think they've just learned each other's rhythms, and that's an agent. Oh, okay, go, you know, like, you gotta have her in a different room!

• 1:55:32Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:55:33Speaker 02

  Read my mind, read my mind through a door!

• 1:55:34Joe Rogan?

  Haven't they done stuff in a different room, though? Didn't Kai Dickens, didn't she said?

• 1:55:38Speaker 00

  In particular, that, another magician actually told me that they had an issue watching that particular kid's videos. They thought that those two were doing something funny.

• 1:55:47Speaker 02

  Yup.

• 1:55:47Joe Rogan?

  Clearly.

• 1:55:48Speaker 00

  Um, but, that's why, the other videos I don't know, they're behind a paywall, you have to get to them.

• 1:55:53Speaker 02

  That's it, that's the sneaky biz. Is everyone that sees the paywall, uh, I had a couple sent to me, and I'm like, cuz people ask me this. And they were like, "What do you think, man?" And I listened to all of the tapes, I thought it was amazing. It got a little wild at the end, if you got to the end, like the hill and that, and you wanna believe. Who doesn't wanna believe that? There's psychics amongst us, and especially, kinda like the superhero story of all. These are kids who nobody thought was in there, and they're really in there, and they're communicating with each other, it's, it's, I mean, I don't know.

• 1:56:21Joe Rogan?

  So essentially, you're saying that instead of psychic energy, there's a sense of like a kinda micro-communication?

• 1:56:26Speaker 02

  You know what?

• 1:56:27Joe Rogan?

  And people want to believe, and so you kinda have confirmation bias, looking at the evidence. You wanna believe. Kai Dickens clearly wanted to believe.

• 1:56:36Speaker 02

  Just super simple. Have a mentalist, and maybe a scientist involved. And a mentalist is better than a scientist, cuz scientists will, they could watch me, and they'll be like, "I don't know how he's doing it," right? We're designed, we're, we're literally, it's like, get a card sheet to beat other card sheets.

• 1:56:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:56:49Speaker 02

  So get me involved.

• 1:56:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:51Speaker 02

  And then, let's do the same thing, and I'm gonna say, "Here are the three things I need you to do different, and I'm not gonna say how you're doing it, but do it with these three things. If you do that, I'm convinced."

• 1:56:59Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, okay. We might have to set this up.

• 1:57:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:03Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if they'd want to.

• 1:57:04Speaker 02

  But the problem is, is that there's very little to gain from that. And then also, we got bad energy in the room. Right, that's the whole thing. You ever see when Uri Geller was debunked by the Amazing Randy on Johnny Carson? And he couldn't bend the spoons? And he goes, "I can't do it with him here, he's got bad energy." It's not, and it's like, you know, is it bad energy? Or is this a guy who knows how you're bending the spoons? And so every time you're about to do a move, he's like a SOB. He was like, "Stop right there, don't move your hand, keep the spoon right there." "Don't, no, no, don't look away, look," it's like, it's like my nightmare.

• 1:57:32Joe Rogan?

  I had a guy show me how they do the spoons.

• 1:57:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:34Joe Rogan?

  We had a guy demonstrate magic, and he goes, "I can show you how to do this one."

• 1:57:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:39Joe Rogan?

  And it was like a different kind of spoon, it wasn't a regular spoon.

• 1:57:42Speaker 02

  No, no, you could do it with real spoons, I could do it with any spoon.

• 1:57:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 1:57:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:44Joe Rogan?

  And you could bend it with your mind?

• 1:57:45Speaker 02

  I mean, again, I don't want to knock it, but that's more of a, it's not really, it's not a psychic power. That falls more into the category of a magic trick. Where you're misdirecting people, you're doing something else where I'm not really bending a spoon with my mind. There's not supernatural powers involved, they can't lie to you and say that. I'm doing it in such a way where you don't know the method, and it's layered, but it's sure gonna look like it's bending by itself, but it's not.

• 1:58:10Joe Rogan?

  This guy was saying that it's a kind of metal that as he moves his hand around, he heats it up.

• 1:58:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's lying to you.

• 1:58:16Joe Rogan?

  Really? Really? Damn, motherfucker. He lied, because he didn't want to tell me how he does it.

• 1:58:22Speaker 02

  No, yeah.

• 1:58:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, damn it.

• 1:58:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:25Joe Rogan?

  Got me again.

• 1:58:26Speaker 02

  Got you.

• 1:58:28Joe Rogan?

  You must enjoy getting people, though.

• 1:58:30Speaker 02

  I like people, I like-

• 1:58:31Joe Rogan?

  The spark that lights in your face when you're accurate is really fun to watch.

• 1:58:34Speaker 02

  I hope it's contagious, but I enjoy watching reactions.

• 1:58:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, clearly.

• 1:58:39Speaker 02

  That's the rush, right? Laughs, do you not love laughs?

• 1:58:42Joe Rogan?

  Of course, yeah.

• 1:58:43Speaker 02

  You ever go into a room and nobody's laughing, and you just bomb, and you just eat it? It's like, oh.

• 1:58:47Joe Rogan?

  Not fun.

• 1:58:47Speaker 02

  How often do you bomb anymore?

• 1:58:49Joe Rogan?

  New jokes bomb, so you'll bomb for chunks, you bomb in segments. You know, you have to figure out how a bit works, and sometimes you try a bit in a way, like, in the middle of it, you're like, ooh, this is not the way. And then you have to kind of jest.

• 1:59:03Speaker 02

  And you're doing a lot of sets at the mothership, I assume?

• 1:59:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:59:07Speaker 02

  And how much do you get allowances? What's the clock for being Joe Rogan before it's like, oh no, let's just see if you're funny as a person? Where does that end?

• 1:59:15Joe Rogan?

  You gotta be funny pretty quick.

• 1:59:17Speaker 02

  You think so?

• 1:59:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, people are good for like a minute.

• 1:59:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:20Joe Rogan?

  They're happy to see you for like a minute.

• 1:59:22Speaker 02

  It's only a minute, huh?

• 1:59:23Joe Rogan?

  Not much time, man. Jerry Seinfeld talked about that once. He's like, being famous buys you about 30 seconds.

• 1:59:28Speaker 02

  Oh, I thought it's more.

• 1:59:29Joe Rogan?

  I think that's what he said. No, no, especially on a night filled with like really top notch comedians.

• 1:59:35Speaker 02

  Right, killers.

• 1:59:36Joe Rogan?

  Which is the mothership every night. It's all a bunch of killers, so you gotta be... But that's also why we do it that way, you know? The one thing that's really bad for comedians is when they start only doing their crowds. So like, they do it on the road and they do large places. And then they have the same opening act over and over again, so they're never challenged.

• 1:59:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:59:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that, that makes people soft 90% of the time. I made that number up.

• 2:00:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, 95.

• 2:00:03Joe Rogan?

  But it's like a high number, you know, because you get soft.

• 2:00:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:00:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:08Speaker 02

  I did, this is funny, so I used to go to the Comedy Cellar. I told you, I love comedy, like aficionado. I lived in the Village for, I don't know, years? And this is pre-kids, a lot more time on my hands. We used to go to the Cellar when you could get in the Cellar like that. Now, good luck.

• 2:00:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:00:22Speaker 02

  And we would see just everybody over and over. And I, I think you met him on, Mike Vecchione?

• 2:00:28Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:00:28Speaker 02

  So good, man.

• 2:00:29Joe Rogan?

  Very funny guy, great guy.

• 2:00:31Speaker 02

  So, great guy, amazing.

• 2:00:33Joe Rogan?

  Super funny.

• 2:00:34Speaker 02

  And he went on, on a night where it was just like dropping, dropping, dropping. And he had to follow Seinfeld, and Seinfeld goes on and just hammers it. And then Mike Vecchione comes on, and you know the bathroom in the Cellar?

• 2:00:45Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:00:46Speaker 02

  Right? Which is about the size of like a quarter of this table. Where you're touching arms when you're taking a leak next to some dude. I went in there and I was quite drunk, and I'll never forget this. I've, I've worked with Mike since, and I was telling him, dude, you probably don't remember me, but I was such a drunk idiot, and we were touching arms while we're peeing, and I always felt bad about it. I'm so drunk, I'm like, dude, forget Seinfeld, you killed it, you're the... He's like, stop talking to me while we're peeing, dude. I had crossed that threshold. And I tried to ask him, I'm like, because we did a gig together. And he opened for me, and I was like, do you, is there any chance you remember? He's like, dude, so many drunk idiots have been next to me at the Cellar, telling me stuff. I'm like, the night where you dropped, you know that, that trying to see if you remember it?

• 2:01:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:01:22Speaker 02

  And I wanted to apologize for it, because I felt so bad. And I'm like, I was talking to you while you were pissing, and dude, I just loved you so much.

• 2:01:32Speaker 02

  And he forgot, he didn't even know this moment, you know, how many drunk, but I'm like, I've been holding this weight for a while, Mike, and I'm a big fan. And I'm sorry I talked too while we both had our dicks out. It was not okay, it was not okay. There's, there's a line in the sand that I have just crossed, brother.

• 2:01:47Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious. And he forgot about it instantly?

• 2:01:49Speaker 02

  He didn't know, dude. I mean, it's like when I have gigs where people come back to me and three years later, like, dude, do you remember this thing? And I go, of course I do. Yes.

• 2:01:57Joe Rogan?

  No, most of the, most of the time you don't remember.

• 2:01:59Speaker 02

  You try. I remember the best and the worst, man. I remember like, I remember some moments where I've bombed so bad that it is seared in your DNA. You know that feeling?

• 2:02:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:02:10Speaker 02

  And it's usually ones where you're not to blame, but the buck stops here. You know what I'm saying? Like where the setup is terrible, the outdoor gig, the, I had one where, God, it was like the town of Charlotte or some, some town hired me, some city. And I had to insert all these data points about the city. And we're like, normally we do two or three things. I will mention two or three things in the course of a show. And if it's 10 minutes, forget it. It's, I don't want to be a salesperson up there. People tune out. If they're like, what are you selling me something right now?

• 2:02:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:02:40Speaker 02

  And I had to say eight or nine things about the town of, of, was it Charlotte? And they, at the last moment, we do dressers will go, by the way, we're all dressing as genies and we're gonna have a life-size genie lamp on stage. And it's gonna start doing smoke while you're doing this. I'm like, I don't really like any of these things, but I was newer to show because I'm like, I go with it. The whole time I'm on stage, the smoke is going like at a hundred percent. We're coughing, it's going terrible. I can't see the person whose mind I'm reading. I'm sweating. I'm trying to talk about the Billy Graham Museum. I'm dying a slow death up there. I get two things in a row wrong. And you know, if you bomb your opener and your closer, like you're dead. I left apologizing. You never want to leave a stage apologizing. They somehow still

• 2:03:23Speaker 02

  loved it. I don't even know how. But I, I sweated through that suit. It was like, I, I, you know, when you question what you're doing in life?

• 2:03:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:31Speaker 02

  That was like a, I'm like, maybe I'm not supposed to be doing this.

• 2:03:35Joe Rogan?

  Well, also you probably say, okay, never doing that kind of setup again.

• 2:03:39Speaker 02

  Kind of, but me, I'm more. catastrophes and I'm like, yeah, I should just be done. But then I came back. I came back. I picked myself up. Uh, yeah, funny enough, tomorrow's my, my, my, one of my daughter's fifth birthday and I'm doing a show at school for five year olds.

• 2:03:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:03:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, I gotta get back, but uh, sweetheart, this is like the sweet spot where they still think I'm cool.

• 2:03:59Joe Rogan?

  That's cool.

• 2:04:00Speaker 02

  Before I'm gonna be like, don't do this and embarrass us dad.

• 2:04:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:04:03Speaker 02

  And last year for my oldest son, who was, uh, at the time had just turned eight, I did his school second graders and dude, they ate me alive.

• 2:04:11Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:04:11Speaker 02

  Cause I, I'm not doing this. Like this is, you know, my sweet spot is mentalism.

• 2:04:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:04:15Speaker 02

  I had to brush off the dust of my kids show, which I haven't touched in like 25 years. Thank God I'm not doing kids shows anymore. No offense to kids show magicians, but like that's, that ship has sailed. And man, second graders are ruthless.

• 2:04:28Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:04:28Speaker 02

  Ruthless.

• 2:04:29Joe Rogan?

  Why second graders?

• 2:04:30Speaker 02

  Cause I don't know, man, like, like one kid, I, I finished this show, okay? And during the show, my wife is in the room recording. I'm like, don't record, don't record. And, and I had, I had to like, look at my wife at one point and I whispered, this is a nightmare. Cause one kid's like, it's in your hand. Show me that. Show me that. And I'm like, dude, shut up. And I'm not good at it. I'm not, I haven't done it in a while.

• 2:04:51Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:04:52Speaker 02

  So I'm just bombing on tricks and thankfully 95% of the crowd actually liked it. It was just these two kids who just got me. And when I went home, one of my neighbors saw me and he goes to me, he goes, oh my God, what's wrong? Are you okay? Cause my face was like ash and white. He thought somebody died. And I'm like, dude, I don't, I don't, you know, I don't even know what to say right now. Like I, uh, maybe I shouldn't be doing this. I had to at one point tell the teacher, I'm like, I'm actually like, I'm, I actually do this for a living. I'm really, I had to try to flex. I'm like, I have an Emmy. Like I, I wanted to let them know I'm not actually this bad. Like I.

• 2:05:27Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious.

• 2:05:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:05:29Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious. Do you think comedy is kind of a bit of hypnotizing people?

• 2:05:35Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. The best comedians, you, the pacing, the rhythm, like, I was watching a Tom Segura special this morning. I don't know how well you know his material, I mean you know him well, but like he had a bit about flying first class. Do you remember that one?

• 2:05:48Joe Rogan?

  I don't.

• 2:05:49Speaker 02

  Oh, he talks about, uh, I don't think he's using his material anymore. The fact that he gets upgraded, he buys coach tickets, it was early, it was years ago. And he gets upgraded so much that he gets first class tickets. And he go, should I not say this bit? I don't know if I want to take his bit. And he goes, it literally, the moment I get upgraded, this feeling of superiority washes over me.

• 2:06:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:06:10Speaker 02

  Where I'm like, don't, when people are walking, don't look at me, you poor piece of shit. Like he's just so, he goes, I dare you, if you're in coach, to try to use my bathroom if I'm in the front. I will put my hand on your chest, bro. It's, I've seen that a hundred times and it's just as funny, if not funnier, every time I watch it. And it's like the timing, the rhythm. I, I learned more from comedy than ever magic or mentalism, way more.

• 2:06:32Joe Rogan?

  Interesting, because we've talked about it a bunch, comics, I'm like, I think we're hypnotizing people. Because I feel hypnotized when someone's killing. When someone's killing, I'm allowing them to think for me.

• 2:06:43Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:06:43Joe Rogan?

  You're like, they're taking me on a ride and I'm just, I'm not thinking at all about what would I say, what would I do? I'm just in their head, or they're in my head.

• 2:06:53Speaker 02

  Right, and also when you bring someone along and when you have that like, just, you drop just amazing line, like, uh, just, there's so many, I mean, listen, I, I consume so much comedy, but like I love watching the rhythm, seeing where people go with it, the people that are more short form, like punch delivery.

• 2:07:09Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:07:09Speaker 02

  Right, versus like a long form, like a Nate Bargatze, like watching Andrew do his things. Shaw's amazing. Man, some of these guys are just like, you can't see where the joke is gonna come and how you just squeeze every bit of juice out of the orange. And the good callbacks.

• 2:07:23Joe Rogan?

  I think the ultimate hypnotist is Dave Attell.

• 2:07:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh yeah, Dave.

• 2:07:27Joe Rogan?

  Dave, because David, there's a rhythm, there's a rhythm to what he does. It's like you just get lost in his thinking.

• 2:07:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:07:34Joe Rogan?

  And he just takes you on the, and he's so effortless. And he does so many sets, like he's so polished, that there's like this effortlessness to his movements and the rhythm and everything. It's like, It's wild.

• 2:07:47Speaker 02

  Oh, like Sebastian Maniscalco, I just friggin' love watching Sebastian. There's so many, there's so many people that came up now that I've seen like over and over and over and just watched them go up like Sam Morril, I've been a fan of for years.

• 2:07:56Joe Rogan?

  Sebastian was actually the first guy to recommend you to me.

• 2:07:59Speaker 02

  I love Sebastian.

• 2:08:00Joe Rogan?

  Shout out to Sebastian.

• 2:08:01Speaker 02

  I love you Sebastian.

• 2:08:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:03Speaker 02

  Was there anyone else after that?

• 2:08:04Joe Rogan?

  Uh, caught up a couple of people told me you were awesome.

• 2:08:06Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 2:08:06Joe Rogan?

  Quite a few.

• 2:08:07Speaker 02

  Now Sebastian's such a stand-up guy.

• 2:08:08Joe Rogan?

  This friend of mine, when I told him that it was-

• 2:08:11Speaker 02

  Shane Gillis, it's Shane Gillis, isn't it?

• 2:08:12Joe Rogan?

  It is.

• 2:08:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. You just thought of it, you shouldn't have let down your guard, I just knew it.

• 2:08:16Joe Rogan?

  How'd you know?

• 2:08:16Speaker 02

  I just, I, that was it, that was the moment.

• 2:08:18Joe Rogan?

  What'd you see?

• 2:08:19Speaker 02

  I can't tell you, but that was, right when you said this friend of mine, I knew you were gonna protect your parks and I said, could it have been Ari, could have been Mark, and I immediately knew it was gonna be Shane Gillis, cause neither of those two would have said, definitely not Mark, would have said, kill him, he's a witch, he's, I just knew it.

• 2:08:33Joe Rogan?

  Yep, that's Shane.

• 2:08:39Joe Rogan?

  That's such a sense of humor too, he's a witch, kill him.

• 2:08:41Speaker 02

  Yep, that's so Shane, that's so Shane.

• 2:08:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was a little bit of a giveaway, cause I said it was my friend.

• 2:08:49Speaker 02

  Yep, that is, that was the giveaway.

• 2:08:50Joe Rogan?

  That was a giveaway, cause I didn't tell you it's someone that I know.

• 2:08:52Speaker 02

  You said a hundred percent, so now I'm thinking like he must live in Austin, like there was a lot of, a lot of indicators.

• 2:08:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:00Speaker 02

  Whatever.

• 2:09:01Joe Rogan?

  But that's part of the thing, right? But that's also you admitting that this isn't like supernatural.

• 2:09:06Speaker 02

  I'm not psychic, so everybody, when people put me on the spot and like, tell me this right now, I literally go, it's not Netflix, it's an on-demand feature, like I, again, that's where these skills, when people are like, why don't you win the lottery, why don't you, like, all these things that are silly where you don't get what I do, apparently.

• 2:09:23Joe Rogan?

  Do you believe that there is any sort of psychic power that people have, like when, when someone gets a phone call from someone they're just thinking about?

• 2:09:31Speaker 02

  Intuition.

• 2:09:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:09:32Speaker 02

  I think there's, I think there's, I mean, listen, that's like a bigger picture question, like, you know, where does your mind expand, like psychedelics, like where, where, what is there beyond this plane?

• 2:09:44Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:09:44Speaker 02

  That clearly, you know, people are aware of, it'd be silly to think, but how do you kinda get on that frequency? There's no question that people have an intuition, again, could I call it psychic powers? I've had things happen that I can't explain to you, based on the skills I have. Does that make sense? Like what? Well, I've guessed things from people where I didn't do the normal way I do it. Do you understand what I mean? Like, I normally have a, there's a series of steps on how I do it, kinda like a chess player. Where you get a chess player, you get Magnus Carlsen, and you get the best chess player in the world. They can literally blindfold, play thirty people, and I'm like, "How you doing that, right?" That's like magic to me. But you're keeping track of all that stuff in your mind, and you're doing stuff that is indistinguishable from real magic, in my opinion. But you've hyper-focused on one skill.

• 2:10:28Speaker 02

  That's what I've done. You just think it's a lot of skills. What I've focused on is one thing, is assessing what people are thinking and what they give away that they don't think they're giving away. That's all. I just guess secret information for a living. But to make it exciting and entertaining, I add bells and whistles and make it interesting. Otherwise, it'd be boring. How many mentalists are out there? Like, is there a community, guys? You share notes? Sure. So, there's like a, I wouldn't call it a brain trust, but there's people I bounce ideas off of when I'm creating, kinda like you punch up jokes, where there, here's what's rare in our world. There's creators, and then there's performers. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, writers, and it's like singer-songwriters. How many people have their songs written for them? Right. Some of the biggest stars in the world. Right.

• 2:11:13Speaker 02

  And how many are like Taylor Swift style, where you write it and this, and you get a piece of you in it? Yeah. And there's something about when you write your own song, I'm not knocking people that don't write their own song, but there's something that you feel different. Right. Do you know what I mean? Which explains the connection Taylor Swift has to her fans. I believe so, because you're getting a piece of you that somebody else can't. I'm sure that- Just a random pop star that gets like some factory- You'll still like it. Like, I friggin' love a Backstreet Boys song. Don't get me wrong. How dare you? I want it that way, Joe. But like, when you are with her, and I'm sure like Jack Antonoff, she has a huge, amazing crew of writers that I'm sure get things out of her, and I know a lot of like music producers, but you feel some connection. Right. So, what, again, I think is differentiating. There's a lot of mentalists, but it's a really small number that are the singer-songwriter,

• 2:11:58Speaker 02

  the creator-performer. Right. Who have the thoughts and are constantly doing new stuff. Mm-hmm. Because we are a cover band. Most mentalists are a cover band of other mentalists. Got it. We don't need to do new stuff. Right. You could literally do the same thing. This is pretty amazing. I could do this for the next forty years and make a good living. God bless. And why do new stuff? Like, when Louis CK was popping out three specials a year, everyone was like, "What the f-" you know? Why are you doing this to all the rest of us? You're so creative. You don't have to, and in our profession, you really don't have to, because you don't have to bury material.

• 2:12:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:12:31Speaker 02

  If I'm not putting stuff online, if I'm not going like Crowdwork, the Matt Rife model, who, by the way, I love that guy. But like, i- i- i- it changed the game. Now, if you want to blow up on social, you've got to be doing this. Or do current events, do topical, do things you can burn.

• 2:12:45Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:12:46Speaker 02

  But I can't put my real act out there.

• 2:12:47Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right. But you enjoy the creative aspect.

• 2:12:50Speaker 02

  I love it. I find it boring. If I keep doing the same stuff.

• 2:12:53Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 2:12:54Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm bored.

• 2:12:55Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 2:12:56Speaker 02

  And I get like sad.

• 2:12:57Joe Rogan?

  Right, but it's, it's interesting because like, I, I wonder how many people you can bounce ideas off of. It seems like you're kind of a lone wolf. Like, in that world, I don't think there's, I mean, there's a lot of comedians. Like, I could call a lot of comedians right now to bounce an idea off of.

• 2:13:13Speaker 02

  There's way less mentalists, and there's way more magicians. And then of the group of mentalists, if you were to do the core one, and again, this is not subjective. I'm much more like objective, the way we looked at names. How many of them have done certain volume of TV appearance, certain volume of views? Like, which ones are getting the attention of the world and the zeitgeist? It's a very, very small number, because you got to innovate, right? This is like an attention economy. You have to do stuff that's compelling to the viewer. And for me, I don't think about myself. It's a trick in life. I think about who's watching.

• 2:13:44Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Well, that's, what do you mean by it's a trick in life?

• 2:13:48Speaker 02

  Well, I, I, like, it helps you in everything in life, right? My secret sauce is that I hold the mirror up not to myself, but to you. Do you get it? Like, when you're watching, and you're watching a football thing.

• 2:13:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:14:00Speaker 02

  What's intriguing is the fact that you're a football viewer. If you're meeting somebody and you want to be memorable, learn more about them. Start listening more. Like, I'll, I'll tell you a story. I met Steven Spielberg. I did Steven Spielberg's dad's birthday. And I got in that room, have you met Steven Spielberg?

• 2:14:14Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:14:15Speaker 02

  And I'm like... You know, a crazy fan. Like, I can't explain to you how many movies he had as a kid that were life-changing. And I'm like, dude, Close Encounters Third Kind, like- Yeah, he's one of the greatest of all time. Ever. Yeah. And so, I'm in the room. I've done stuff for his family. This is not like a big blowout corporate event. It's like eighty people. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this. And it was a great time, amazing, and at the end of it, I'm like getting some face time with Spielberg. Right. And I walk up to him, and we spent almost twenty minutes talking to each other, which is like, I didn't expect that. I thought he'd be like, oh, great job, you know? Do you know how many questions? I had a million questions. Do you know how many questions I asked him? How many? Zero. Really?

• 2:14:55Speaker 02

  Zero. And that's like, right there, I learned a lesson in life that applies to everything. That's why he's Steven Spielberg. He is naturally curious. This guy, wealthy beyond belief, stories beyond belief, he could make it ego-driven, and he could have been telling me, oh, this, and I would have been hanging on my every word. But instead, he wanted to know more about me, and he kept asking me que- I was like, just pause, dude, I have like a lot of questions.

• 2:15:20Speaker 02

  Like, come on! And so, I learned, and I could have just left that and been like, fuck, I didn't get any questions in with Steven Spielberg, but instead, I realized this is the person at the highest level of what he does. And he is naturally curious, and he lets other people shine, and this is something to do in life. Right. Which is, you don't know, when you meet somebody, who they'll be, or what they'll be, or what can- I'm not doing it from a transactional sense. But why I've had so many TV appearances is when I go into a place, I'm gonna do stuff for the security guard, I'm gonna do something for the person who irons my shirt, I'm gonna leave that place like a bomb went off of amazement, where everyone around there now likes you, and you don't know when they'll jump ship to another network, to another thing, and if they like you, sales one-on-one, they're gonna wanna keep doing business with you.

• 2:16:00Speaker 02

  And so, those people become your champions elsewhere. And it's kind of a lesson where, he could have talked about himself the whole time, he didn't.

• 2:16:08Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:16:09Speaker 02

  So, I shouldn't either. When you go to other places, let other people shine. And that's something I've carried with me, and I think that's a superpower in life that most people don't do. They think, what am I gonna say next?

• 2:16:20Joe Rogan?

  Right. That's kind of the key to running a good podcast, too. Cause you really wanna extract the most out of the person possible.

• 2:16:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:16:27Joe Rogan?

  Where you just want, my questions are basically just try to get you expand, and I would just wanna find out how you think.

• 2:16:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:16:35Joe Rogan?

  And for Spielberg, a guy who deals in all these stories and narratives and all these characters and heroes, to meet a unique character like yourself is probably really fascinating to him, too, because he's probably like, "Oh, I don't know anybody like this."

• 2:16:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:16:49Joe Rogan?

  You know, like, what are you doing? How are you doing? Like, and now, now he's got like a new tool in his toolbox.

• 2:16:55Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 2:16:55Joe Rogan?

  Cause he's got you.

• 2:16:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:16:57Joe Rogan?

  Like, this, you know, you have the spectrum of possibilities in terms of like the humans that you meet. And then you meet one that's outside of that, you're like, "Ooh, I hadn't even considered you before."

• 2:17:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:17:08Joe Rogan?

  "What are you, where, how, who the fuck are you?"

• 2:17:11Speaker 02

  That was pretty much the question. And then he had like, he, but he was interesting because, I don't know if you get this, but I get like X, like the 20 questions is what I call it, air quotes. Which is, "How'd you get into this?" Like, the opening questions, which you can't blame someone. If you got a weird job.

• 2:17:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:17:26Speaker 02

  People wanna know how, about it, right? Like, "Oh, does somebody in your family do this?" Like, there's all these questions you're gonna get every time. God bless people, I don't hold it against them. Mine is always, I'm doing like a sound check for a gig, and then there was like, "All right, so we got this, we got this." And I go, "Don't you know that we have that?" Like, "Ah."

• 2:17:43Speaker 02

  Like, I'm like, "Okay, so just real quick, where's the green room? Like, you don't know already?" And I'm like, "Okay, this is..."

• 2:17:47Joe Rogan?

  This is getting silly.

• 2:17:48Speaker 02

  I just smile, and I'm like, "You know, I've never heard that one before," but it's, uh, it, it's, you get that.

• 2:17:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:54Speaker 02

  But in this situation, again, it's like, he, he didn't ask those questions. He was very uniquely finding answers, questions that weren't like the usual.

• 2:18:04Joe Rogan?

  Of course, cause there's a study. I mean, he studies humans.

• 2:18:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:18:07Joe Rogan?

  I mean, to be a great filmmaker, the way he is, to do Schindler's List, to do...

• 2:18:12Speaker 02

  That's, that's such a heavy movie, man. Have you seen that recently?

• 2:18:15Joe Rogan?

  Saving Private Ryan. I mean, he's got heavy movies. And then, you know, Close Encounters is one of my favorite movies of all time. I mean, the, it's interesting, you know, one of the things I really liked about that movie is he, after he became a father... Changed how he felt about the ending of his own movie. He wouldn't have the father leave everybody.

• 2:18:33Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 2:18:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, cuz at the end of the movie, Richard Dreyfuss's character gets on the spaceship and leaves the aliens.

• 2:18:40Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:18:40Joe Rogan?

  He's like, I would never do that.

• 2:18:41Speaker 02

  I didn't know that.

• 2:18:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:42Speaker 02

  Did they film it or no?

• 2:18:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, it was after the fact, like, you know, he made the movie, I believe, when he was younger, and he didn't have children. And then, as time went on, you know, he looked back on it, he's like, oh, god, I would never leave my kids to go on this fucking UFO.

• 2:18:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:18:57Joe Rogan?

  Nor would I, nor would you.

• 2:18:59Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:18:59Joe Rogan?

  No, like, but in this idealistic version of who he thought the Richard Dreyfuss character was and the circumstances, like, he had to leave. He had to go. You gotta go with the aliens.

• 2:19:09Speaker 02

  I sure as hell get my phone out and try and get good footage for a change. I'm like, right here, good stuff. I like the tic-tac and gimbal, but I wanna see it close up and high-def.

• 2:19:17Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 2:19:19Speaker 02

  You got anything?

• 2:19:20Joe Rogan?

  Nothing.

• 2:19:20Speaker 02

  You got something? Come on.

• 2:19:21Joe Rogan?

  I have off-air what I think are people bullshitting me.

• 2:19:25Speaker 02

  Oh, I, you don't have to be off-air. I've watched these. I can read people. I can tell.

• 2:19:28Joe Rogan?

  On, on-air, off-air.

• 2:19:29Speaker 02

  Where the snake oil is, but.

• 2:19:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I feel it. That's where it's instinctive. Like, I don't have the tools that you have, but there's a part of me that's like, huh. Something smells.

• 2:19:39Speaker 02

  I told Jamie, when I walked in here, and I said, this is again, passes sniff test, and pardon my French, but everyone takes crap, right? Everyone in the world. I don't care if you're the Pope. You take a crap. So if they're being held in a facility, someone's taking craps.

• 2:19:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:19:53Speaker 02

  And who's cleaning it? I don't think the scientists are. There's a janitor. There's someone in that room. So are you telling me that there's nobody in there that's got a 401K, health insurance, some sort of? How is someone not getting? Tell me, explain to me what NDA they're signing or what they're doing, that if they found this out, someone loose lips in ship, somebody would've told somebody who works in that facility, who's not the scientist, who's not the military person, and word gets out. How is that buttoned up tight where nothing gets out ever?

• 2:20:22Joe Rogan?

  Well.

• 2:20:23Speaker 02

  For 50 years, you're telling me there's a basement somewhere in this country? Eight stories down where they got those things and no one else knows who's credible and can release it, how? Occam's razor, what do you think?

• 2:20:34Joe Rogan?

  I think the government can keep things secret for a long time. I think they did with the Manhattan project. I think they've done it with other projects in the past. I think it's possible.

• 2:20:43Speaker 02

  You think it's siloed? It's just siloed? Nobody knows all the info?

• 2:20:46Joe Rogan?

  Because people do talk. There's a lot of people talking and people share similar stories and they have for decades. And I think there's something to it. I just don't know what it is. I think, you know, we had Jesse Michaels on yesterday who has this amazing show on YouTube, probably the best YouTube show on aliens and UFOs and UAPs. And he's very agnostic in his thinking and he's very objective and he also is very, very, very thorough as far as his understanding of the information. And even he is baffled as much as he knows, but he knows more about siloed technology than pretty much anybody does in regard to this UAP phenomenon.

• 2:21:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:21:30Joe Rogan?

  And he points to this guy, Thompson Brown, who was working on gravity technology in the 1950s. They were, they had working models, like they, they, he thinks that they have some sort of a gravity propulsion device. But then there's things like Roswell where the crash, like if all those stories are true, that's too early. It's 47. There's too early. There's no way they had working models of these, these devices back then. So he thinks it's possible, you know, he's not a, I know this is true. He thinks it's possible that it is both United States government's secret projects that people are seeing, and there's probably quite a few of them. We actually pulled a few of them up and showed some of them that look like UFOs that probably

• 2:22:15Joe Rogan?

  is part of what people are seeing. But he thinks is also probable that there's some other things. And these other things could be from anywhere. And then there's just the Fermi paradox, like if they're all out there, where are they? There's so many planets, there's so many galaxies.

• 2:22:30Speaker 02

  Well, that's, that's gotta be the case.

• 2:22:32Joe Rogan?

  It has to be the case. It's the question of whether or not they have visited, or whether or not they're here.

• 2:22:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:22:37Joe Rogan?

  You know, and then there's these like weird Peruvian mummies that we went over, that these tridactyl mummies that they take CAT scans of, and you see the tissue and the bones and, you know, they, they were all found in, what is it called? What's the kind of earth? That they found that these things are, the dye, something?

• 2:23:00Joe Rogan?

  Do you remember what it is? Where they were all dried out?

• 2:23:02Speaker 00

  I know the, I know exactly what you're, the description, but I don't remember the word.

• 2:23:05Joe Rogan?

  Something earth. I know the word. I can't, it's, it's escaping me right now. All that stuff's very fascinating.

• 2:23:12Speaker 02

  So fascinating.

• 2:23:13Joe Rogan?

  Ancient depictions on cave walls of these things, and we pulled up these tapestries that are a thousand years old that had these three-fingered creatures. Very weird, very weird. But that doesn't necessarily, doesn't mean they're alien.

• 2:23:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:23:26Joe Rogan?

  You know, we talked to, we talked rather about all the various versions of human beings that they're finding now. You know, from Denisovans to the island of Flores, hobbit people, there's like these, there's a weird variety of humans that went extinct.

• 2:23:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:23:42Joe Rogan?

  And these tridactyl things could very well have been that.

• 2:23:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, you had, it was Christopher Melonon, right?

• 2:23:48Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:23:48Speaker 02

  And I, that was my favorite one.

• 2:23:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:50Speaker 02

  Because he had, I think, I don't want to butcher, but I think he called it ultra-terrestrial. It makes the most sense, which is, think about, right now, if you just dropped the bottle in the ocean, right? What are the odds you ever run into that bottle? Right. In the ocean, it's impossible. That's what time is. If we've been around for 13 billion years, sure, there's aliens, but how do you, we've only been around for a few thousand, like it's such an infant, it's, it's a grain of sand in the whole beach.

• 2:24:13Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:24:14Speaker 02

  So, what if, what would you do? Right now, if we had technology, a thousand years from now, 2,000 years from now, right? AI, multiply it out, the whole nine. What would you do? You'd send these things everywhere.

• 2:24:25Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:24:26Speaker 02

  Just like sci-fi, and you'd plant them, and you'd come out every now and again and check what's up.

• 2:24:29Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:24:30Speaker 02

  So, that's, I, I don't, I don't, my likeliest thing is, I don't think there's any biological beings or aliens. I think you've just got automated drones, in essence, that are running patterns that have some sort of, like, I don't know, that makes way more sense.

• 2:24:41Joe Rogan?

  It certainly could be that. I mean, that's what we're doing currently on Mars. Right. And it's what we do with, you know, probes, you know, with the James Webb Telescope, a lot of the different things that we use. We just send a machine out and get information from it. And then also, I think at the first certain point in time, we're being realistic about what we're doing right now. We're gonna have biological beings. And then we're gonna have some kind of digital being. We're gonna have some sort of a, whether it's, whether it's an actual physical robot, or whether it's just an artificial intelligence that's a signal that we can send. And, you know, it has enough compressed information where it can compute and calculate and do them. It's a technology beyond our wildest,

• 2:25:22Joe Rogan?

  wildest dreams is a thousand years away from now, right? But a thousand years away, we have a god, right? So would, would, if, if you extrapolate where we're at now with quantum computing and the ability to calculate things, that if you turn the entire universe, every molecule of the universe into a computer, it would take you so much time, according to Marc Andreessen, that the universe would die of heat death, before it could solve an equation that a quantum computer can solve in minutes. Right. This is, we're talking about nuts. No, it's crazy. And this is just 2025 stuff. You know, if you looked at the internet from 1994, it's like archaic 14, four modem. I remember it. I remember it. I'm that generation.

• 2:26:06Joe Rogan?

  You know, that's 31 years ago. So like, what are we talking about when we're, we're dealing with 31,000 years? So conceivably, a life form has existed and gone through the same stages as us without catastrophes, without nuclear war, without all the things that could trip us up. We, we could be dealing with things that are beyond our imagination, literally beyond our imagination. And they're probably around us all the time. I had an idea that I wondered. I've always thought, what if ideas are life forms? Right. Cause we think of life as being, it has to breathe, it has to have cells, it has to, but everything in this room and everything in this city and everything on this planet that's a, a man-made physical object came out of an idea.

• 2:26:51Joe Rogan?

  And the ideas compound upon each other. That, you know, the more people working on these ideas, the more competition, the more the ideas will flourish. And the more the, the ideas will be more complex and, and more efficient versions of this idea. Like. It has, but it has to start as a creative thought inside someone's head. And either a creative thought that you can apply to existing creative thoughts, or a completely unique one, like Francis Crick, or, you know, when they're figuring out certain aspects of biology, or certain aspects of the quantum field, whatever they're doing that's a breakthrough thing, like, where's that coming from?

• 2:27:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:27:26Joe Rogan?

  It's coming from an idea.

• 2:27:29Joe Rogan?

  And then these ideas, they manifest itself in physical form through human labor.

• 2:27:34Speaker 02

  Well, it's Schrodinger's cat, right? Does it happen if you don't observe it?

• 2:27:38Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:27:38Speaker 02

  That's the weird thing about quantum physics, right? It's completely, you can't imagine it, but if you don't open that box, nothing's happened yet, it hasn't happened until you observe it.

• 2:27:48Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:27:48Speaker 02

  They prove that.

• 2:27:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what it gets really weird, you know, when, when people, there's a lot of people that are deciding now that to approach it, approach it as if consciousness is the reason these things exist, not consciousness is seeing that these things exist, that they only exist when you're interacting with them.

• 2:28:10Joe Rogan?

  Which is like, what?

• 2:28:13Speaker 02

  Some of the stuff, when you read that, like, I've read books about string theory, about quantum physics, it's just, they're too, it's too hard to

• 2:28:19Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:28:19Speaker 02

  process in the real world, when you're like, the table, but the table's actually empty space.

• 2:28:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:28:24Speaker 02

  There's almost nothing and it's solid.

• 2:28:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:26Speaker 02

  Every atom, I don't even know what the, the numbers are, like Neil de Cressis, but how small is the nucleus and the actual physical items out of it? They're empty. Everything's empty.

• 2:28:36Joe Rogan?

  Everything's empty. And then you get to subatomic, and you're like, okay, well, now this is just pure wizardry.

• 2:28:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:28:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. That they exist and they don't exist.

• 2:28:44Speaker 00

  This is something Michael Jackson said about ideas, uh, start like, right here.

• 2:28:50Joe Rogan?

  Philip says, "We went and met with Michael, and Kenny said, 'Michael, you've got to stop, we've got an incredible show, we don't need any more vignettes.' Michael said, 'But Kenny, God channels this through me at night, I can't sleep because I'm so supercharged.' Kenny said, 'But Michael, we have to finish, can't God take a vacation?' Without missing a beat, Michael said, 'You don't understand, if I'm not there to receive these ideas, God might give them to Prince.'"

• 2:29:15Speaker 02

  Incredible. Just an incredible, Michael slept one night, and that's why Purple Rain exists. Did you know that? Little Red Corvette was gonna have a totally different meeting with Michael Jackson.

• 2:29:25Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 2:29:26Speaker 02

  Too soon?

• 2:29:27Joe Rogan?

  God might give them to Prince.

• 2:29:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:29Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Wow.

• 2:29:32Speaker 02

  Well, songs are interesting like that. You know, I met last year, I was in Sweden. I did this conference. Brilliant Minds, amazing. And I met Max Martin. Do you know who that is?

• 2:29:40Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:29:40Speaker 02

  Max Martin is, you should look this up, how many hits he has. So Max Martin has, I think, more number one hits than anyone but Paul McCartney. Check that if I'm right. But I got there, there were so many interesting people, it was amazing conference. And I was ready to geek out with him because I'm just so curious. It's the creative, like, how does somebody come up with something? It's fascinating to me. And one of his recent songs was Blinding Lights by The Weeknd. You know, I want such a massive hit and I just, I love that song. And I just like, just like, perfect, sounds like a movie track in my mind. And how did you do that? Like, how, you know, where did you start? Did you guys have a beat? Did you know the lyrics? Like, I'm just so curious. How does that happen? Is it like in 10 minutes? Is it months? And he just walked me through, like, he had a vision. We have this. We have like all this stuff that we sit down and then

• 2:30:25Speaker 02

  the first the music, then I'm like, just wow. It's so amazing to create something like that, that a billion people now listen to, number one in every country in the world. It's like, how do you manufacture something so kind of perfect that everyone in the world likes it?

• 2:30:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:40Speaker 02

  Uh, and is there a point, you know, it's gonna be the hit before it is the hit? That to me is the most, like, how many bands get stuck for the rest of their life playing a song that they frickin' hate, that they didn't know was gonna be their especially if you're a one-hit wonder? You're like dead in the eyes. You're like, I gotta play this again. I gotta, you know? Come on, Eileen. Like, you better love that song.

• 2:31:00Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it funny when you love a song and the artist doesn't wanna sing it anymore?

• 2:31:03Speaker 02

  Oh, and then they start singing it a different way at a concert? And you're like, why are you doing this weird acapella, bro? I wanna hear it like the radio.

• 2:31:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's, that's interesting. That's kind of the difference, though, between musicians and anybody else. Cause musicians, you wanna hear the same thing over and over again.

• 2:31:19Speaker 02

  Exactly. I have that a little bit, where if I get clients who book me over and over, they'll, I say to them, do you want me to do something different? Cause it's like jokes.

• 2:31:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:31:28Speaker 02

  You know, it's like, I've seen Gaffigan, are you gonna do Hot Pockets? Like, people call it out. I wanna hear it. But you know the punchline.

• 2:31:34Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:31:34Speaker 02

  Something that especially you're known for. So I found that if I did a completely different show, people are kinda mad. Like, I don't have exit surveys, but like, I kinda listen in and see what's going on. I wish he did that one. Bon Jovi has got to do "Living on a Prayer" at every gig or people are pissed. For me, I need at least two of the things to be the same because people want to see if they can catch it the second time.

• 2:31:57Joe Rogan?

  Got it.

• 2:31:57Speaker 02

  So there's a level of they heard about it and they're like, "Oh, you gotta do that thing with the thing." Like, you know, and so if I do everything new, yeah, they're kind of happy, but they still want a greatest hit. And it took me years to learn that because I used to be like, "Oh, I can't do the same thing. I gotta be, you know, unique." And then I learned that that's not, that's not better.

• 2:32:15Joe Rogan?

  You know, I was just thinking like, mentalists would be the best police interrogators.

• 2:32:19Speaker 02

  Right, Minority Report style.

• 2:32:21Joe Rogan?

  Right? Don't you think? Like if someone, but don't you think if a police interrogator learned the skills of being a mentalist?

• 2:32:29Speaker 02

  I think they could, but again, it's the best analogy that I can give you is a director holding the camera. I'm always holding the camera and pointing it at what I want. Does that make sense? What police interrogator is gonna say, "Okay," to the perp, "Think of where you were that night. Look this way, look that way." Like, they're not gonna do all that stuff. This is done when it's done under the guise of entertainment.

• 2:32:51Joe Rogan?

  And if they do do that, you're kind of leading the witness.

• 2:32:53Speaker 02

  You could lead whatever. People are gonna, it's not, it's not a show. So you're not gonna have a willing participant. You can't be hypnotized against your will. Most stage hypnotists, they do compliance testing first. Do you know what I mean by that? They have everyone in the audience, "Hold your hands together." And imagine, and like, and like, who can't get their hands apart? And the person who goes like this right away, they're like, "I'm not bringing them on stage."

• 2:33:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:33:15Speaker 02

  They're not doing anything.

• 2:33:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:33:17Speaker 02

  You have to be able to be hypnotized. You have to be suggestible. Mine isn't necessarily suggestible, but mine is a maze where every time you hit a roadblock, I'm moving you around until I get you to the spot where you go through. And so that's why you asked me why I didn't do this. It wasn't gonna work. I knew it wouldn't. I have, I have more things planned than you know right now.

• 2:33:36Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:33:37Speaker 02

  I've been thinking about this for a while, but I'm not gonna do them all.

• 2:33:40Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:33:40Speaker 02

  Because again, how you structure and act, you leave the best for last. You never leave here doing the best in the middle.

• 2:33:45Joe Rogan?

  We're going down the homestretch.

• 2:33:46Speaker 02

  Are we? Are we homestretched? Are we at the final moment?

• 2:33:48Joe Rogan?

  We're, we're almost at three hours.

• 2:33:50Speaker 02

  So, wow, this goes fast, huh?

• 2:33:52Joe Rogan?

  Flew by.

• 2:33:53Speaker 02

  Remember when you asked me, "Did I wake up early or late?"

• 2:33:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:33:57Speaker 02

  The only thing I got wrong.

• 2:33:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:33:58Speaker 02

  Right? Except, well, he said the vowel, but he thought of melody, but the Y was the, you know what I mean? That was a little bit tricky because A, E, I, O, U. Anyway, doesn't matter. Here's what I want to do. You said 50/50, coin flip.

• 2:34:10Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:34:11Speaker 02

  And I brought one. You said who has coins? What do we got here?

• 2:34:14Joe Rogan?

  A coin.

• 2:34:15Speaker 02

  What is it? Candy half, right?

• 2:34:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:19Speaker 02

  Alright, let's go. I feel like one is not exciting enough. That's like a football game? Here's what I do. I don't know if you can see me from over there. Let's do three tosses.

• 2:34:29Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:34:29Speaker 02

  Statistically, how many we get right?

• 2:34:33Joe Rogan?

  Two?

• 2:34:33Speaker 02

  One and a half. Alright, alright, either way. Call it in the air.

• 2:34:36Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:34:36Speaker 02

  Can you see me over there? The table's real busy.

• 2:34:39Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:34:39Speaker 02

  Call it in the air.

• 2:34:40Joe Rogan?

  Tails.

• 2:34:40Speaker 02

  You going tails?

• 2:34:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:42Speaker 02

  What do we get? Heads. Alright, alright. Whatever. 0 for 1.

• 2:34:46Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:34:46Speaker 02

  You felt good about it when you did it?

• 2:34:48Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:34:48Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:34:49Joe Rogan?

  It took a while, I guess. Should I really put it in my head?

• 2:34:51Speaker 02

  No, do whatever. I mean, it's a coin flip. It's not a trick.

• 2:34:54Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:34:54Speaker 02

  Now, it gets in your head, because you guessed it and you're like, "Fucking didn't work the first time." But nobody cares. Nothing riding on this. You ready? Call it in the air. What are you going with?

• 2:35:02Joe Rogan?

  Tails.

• 2:35:03Speaker 02

  You going tails again?

• 2:35:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:04Speaker 02

  You're going tails again?

• 2:35:05Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:35:06Speaker 02

  I can't. See, that time I would never change. It's heads. 0 for 2.

• 2:35:10Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:35:11Speaker 02

  Alright, alright. Third try is charm.

• 2:35:13Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:35:13Speaker 02

  You think you got it?

• 2:35:14Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:35:17Speaker 02

  What are the odds on that? So this has gotta be your shot. Call it.

• 2:35:21Joe Rogan?

  Tails.

• 2:35:21Speaker 02

  Tails? I always go, "Tails never fails." What do we get, Joe? You're 0 for 3!

• 2:35:25Joe Rogan?

  Heads again.

• 2:35:26Speaker 02

  You're 0 for 3? You done?

• 2:35:28Joe Rogan?

  Nope.

• 2:35:29Speaker 02

  You want one more?

• 2:35:30Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:35:30Speaker 02

  You insist?

• 2:35:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:31Speaker 02

  Alright. You're not done. I said 3. Okay. Should I go over here? Has that envelope been there the whole time?

• 2:35:37Joe Rogan?

  This envelope? Yes.

• 2:35:38Speaker 02

  We sealed this.

• 2:35:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:35:39Speaker 02

  The moment I arrived at the studio.

• 2:35:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:35:42Speaker 02

  Okay. You're gonna get it this time, just for the record.

• 2:35:43Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:35:45Speaker 02

  Call it. Tails?

• 2:35:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:48Speaker 02

  Fuck! 0 for 4!

• 2:35:49Joe Rogan?

  Are you doing this?

• 2:35:50Speaker 02

  I'm not doing anything!

• 2:35:51Joe Rogan?

  You're not making it land on heads?

• 2:35:52Speaker 02

  0 for 4!

• 2:35:53Joe Rogan?

  No, but do you know how to do it? Like, do you have a method?

• 2:35:56Speaker 02

  Call it. Call whatever you want.

• 2:35:57Joe Rogan?

  Tails.

• 2:35:58Speaker 02

  So, did I do it? You said it with...

• 2:36:00Joe Rogan?

  What is it?

• 2:36:01Speaker 02

  It's heads. But that was... that didn't count. That didn't count. You're just bad luck.

• 2:36:05Joe Rogan?

  Is that 5 in a row?

• 2:36:06Speaker 02

  I didn't really count that one.

• 2:36:07Joe Rogan?

  That seems odd. Let's try one more.

• 2:36:08Speaker 00

  Should I double check the tails still there?

• 2:36:10Speaker 02

  Do it yourself.

• 2:36:11Joe Rogan?

  Double check what, Jamie?

• 2:36:12Speaker 00

  Double check there's still tails on there.

• 2:36:13Joe Rogan?

  There's still tails!

• 2:36:13Speaker 00

  Okay, just checking.

• 2:36:14Speaker 02

  But this doesn't count, because this one's yours.

• 2:36:16Joe Rogan?

  Whoops.

• 2:36:19Speaker 02

  That was very clumsy of me.

• 2:36:23Speaker 02

  Put it anywhere, do it on the table. I just didn't have room on the table.

• 2:36:26Joe Rogan?

  It's tails.

• 2:36:27Speaker 02

  But did you guess tails?

• 2:36:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:29Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 2:36:29Joe Rogan?

  I just kept going. I feel like it's gotta be tails eventually.

• 2:36:31Speaker 02

  It's not a trick. It's statistical. Alright.

• 2:36:34Joe Rogan?

  But statistically, five in a row of heads, it seems odd.

• 2:36:36Speaker 02

  I said to you, "I hope everyone stayed along for this journey." I said, "This is your future."

• 2:36:40Joe Rogan?

  This is my future.

• 2:36:41Speaker 02

  Right? But I lied. Past, present, and future.

• 2:36:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 2:36:45Speaker 02

  Now, hold on. I'm gonna come over there. Open it up. You'll see what I mean. But I want you to open it. Open it up.

• 2:36:51Speaker 02

  There's two things in there. Now, freeze right there.

• 2:36:53Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:36:54Speaker 02

  Show us what you have.

• 2:36:55Joe Rogan?

  Two envelopes.

• 2:36:56Speaker 02

  Well, not, one's on envelope. It's kind of...

• 2:36:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, one's folded piece of paper.

• 2:36:59Speaker 02

  Folded piece of paper.

• 2:37:00Joe Rogan?

  And then one is a manila envelope that's sealed.

• 2:37:02Speaker 02

  Is it all right if I come over? Is it taped everywhere?

• 2:37:04Joe Rogan?

  Yes, taped everywhere.

• 2:37:06Speaker 02

  So, I'm coming over.

• 2:37:07Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:37:12Speaker 02

  You wanna do it? Can you guys hear me?

• 2:37:14Joe Rogan?

  We're gonna open it.

• 2:37:14Speaker 02

  Where am I? Is the camera here?

• 2:37:15Joe Rogan?

  This is my mic, but I have the... There's a camera over there.

• 2:37:18Speaker 02

  There's a camera, okay. You tell me.

• 2:37:19Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:37:20Speaker 02

  I'll go around you. I just want you to see this.

• 2:37:23Joe Rogan?

  Alright.

• 2:37:23Speaker 02

  Joe, look inside.

• 2:37:26Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:37:26Speaker 02

  I want you to look inside. And before you grab it, no, no, no. Look, look, look, look, look.

• 2:37:29Joe Rogan?

  Okay, I'm looking.

• 2:37:30Speaker 02

  And tell me, you see, it says two words. Can I turn this around?

• 2:37:33Joe Rogan?

  It says Joe Rogan will...

• 2:37:34Speaker 02

  It says Joe Rogan, and I don't want to touch. Will you do it? I don't want to touch. Grab that one, that pink one out. And read to us. Grab it. That's your pass. Hold on to this.

• 2:37:41Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:37:42Speaker 02

  Read out loud. It's been in there from before we started.

• 2:37:45Joe Rogan?

  It says, "Joe Rogan will get three coin flips in a row wrong, insist on doing one more, and then get that one wrong too."

• 2:37:54Speaker 02

  The present, you can't change that. The past, Joe, take out what's in there.

• 2:37:59Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:37:59Speaker 02

  Tell us all. Look around the edges. Is this, it's stapled.

• 2:38:02Joe Rogan?

  Stapled.

• 2:38:02Speaker 02

  Like, I usually used to lick stuff.

• 2:38:03Joe Rogan?

  Completely stapled shut.

• 2:38:04Speaker 02

  Feel it. Like, do this. Bring this over. I want you to see. Look, look. I don't want to touch. I just want you to, like, look around.

• 2:38:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's fully stapled.

• 2:38:10Speaker 02

  It's stapled. Is there any... When I walked in here, Joe, I made a big thing of it. I said, "I want you to have this before."

• 2:38:15Joe Rogan?

  Right. Sealed. It's been here the whole time?

• 2:38:18Speaker 02

  Sealed.

• 2:38:18Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:38:19Speaker 02

  Impulsive, spontaneous, in the moment.

• 2:38:21Joe Rogan?

  Got it.

• 2:38:22Speaker 02

  And I said to you, "Did something get in your head? Who, earlier, when I said, 'Any fighter you've ever, you've ever seen,' what fighter came to mind?"

• 2:38:31Joe Rogan?

  I said Anderson Silva.

• 2:38:32Speaker 02

  Anderson Silva.

• 2:38:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:33Speaker 02

  And how many fighters? Rip it open.

• 2:38:35Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:38:36Speaker 02

  How many fighters did you say cycled through your head? And I said, "Be very specific. How many fighters do you think cycled through your head?"

• 2:38:43Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, I said a dozen at least.

• 2:38:45Speaker 02

  Did he say a dozen? He said fourteen. You said fourteen. Read, please, open that up, take that out. And I want you to please read what's been in there from the moment I walked on this set.

• 2:38:56Joe Rogan?

  It said, "Joe will have fourteen fighters go through his head, but with Anderson Silva in the end, in a fight that he won."

• 2:39:07Speaker 02

  Past, present, and future.

• 2:39:09Joe Rogan?

  That's insane.

• 2:39:10Speaker 02

  Past, present, future, the other piece of paper, there's one that's got-

• 2:39:12Joe Rogan?

  That's literally insane.

• 2:39:16Joe Rogan?

  Because at first I was gonna go with Zabit, Zabit, Magamob, Magamob, Sheriff.

• 2:39:20Speaker 02

  Do this, grab the other piece of paper. It's got a paper clip, freeze right there, this is the future, stop, stop, don't move, hold it right there in your hands.

• 2:39:26Joe Rogan?

  Okay, I'm holding it.

• 2:39:27Speaker 02

  Nobody knows the future.

• 2:39:28Joe Rogan?

  Nobody knows the future.

• 2:39:29Speaker 02

  It's true, nobody does.

• 2:39:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:39:31Speaker 02

  Imagine right now, best magic trick in the world, boom, I throw a smoke bomb.

• 2:39:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:39:34Speaker 02

  Disappear, disappear.

• 2:39:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:39:36Speaker 02

  Anyone, ever, someone famous though, otherwise I want to see my grandma again, appears right here instead, imagine, you literally, I don't want Jamie to do it, but you pull up a photo, you show me this person's photo.

• 2:39:47Joe Rogan?

  Got it.

• 2:39:47Speaker 02

  Say it, who do, who do you see right there in that chair, say it, what's their name?

• 2:39:53Joe Rogan?

  Miles Davis.

• 2:39:54Speaker 02

  Can I ask you a question?

• 2:39:55Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:39:56Speaker 02

  Cause I like this, I, here's what I always like to do, I always call it the grass is greener, I can see when people's eyes shift. When they have one person, and they're like, "I want that person," but that's the front of their mind, I can always get in the front, but for this to be a legendary ending, who is in the back, who is the person you thought of before Miles Davis, tell us.

• 2:40:12Joe Rogan?

  Muhammad Ali.

• 2:40:12Speaker 02

  Muhammad Ali, right? That's what I love, the gold standard, the reason you're gonna talk about this for years, is because you changed your mind at the last moment, that's been in there from when I walked in here, look at what's in there right now.

• 2:40:25Joe Rogan?

  Muhammad Ali.

• 2:40:28Joe Rogan?

  How's that possible?

• 2:40:33Joe Rogan?

  That's insane.

• 2:40:36Joe Rogan?

  You are a witch. We're gonna have to kill you. Lock the door, Jamie.

• 2:40:40Speaker 02

  Bam!

• 2:40:42Joe Rogan?

  That's really insane, man. That's really weird. I wanna ask you how you do this, but you're not gonna tell me.

• 2:40:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, off-camera. Tell you everything. You show me where Bob Lazar's hiding the UFO.

• 2:40:52Joe Rogan?

  I wish I knew. I wish I knew. That's insane, dude. That's crazy. It was Anderson Silva versus Rich Franklin.

• 2:40:59Speaker 02

  Oh, what a good fight.

• 2:41:00Joe Rogan?

  What a great fight.

• 2:41:01Speaker 02

  This you keep. This you keep. You lock in the safe for when I come next time. Assume the clothes.

• 2:41:05Joe Rogan?

  I will.

• 2:41:05Speaker 02

  I'll be back.

• 2:41:06Joe Rogan?

  This is, uh, really nuts, man. I don't know how you did it. It's really crazy. The coin flip, the fourteen different fighters, like, all of it.

• 2:41:16Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:41:17Joe Rogan?

  Fucking nuts, man.

• 2:41:17Speaker 02

  Change your bank PIN code right now. Change it.

• 2:41:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm going to. Jesus Christ.

• 2:41:25Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, anything to add to this? Nope. We should've walked off when you were silent. We should've just ended it there. This is like pure wizardry, dude. I don't know how you're doing it.

• 2:41:35Speaker 02

  Appreciate that.

• 2:41:36Joe Rogan?

  And I don't think you're ever gonna be explained to me either. Thank you.

• 2:41:39Speaker 02

  I appreciate you, man. I'm a huge fan for many years, and I love what you're putting out in the world, and I'm telling you, I just, I love it, and thank you so much. I'm honored to be here.

• 2:41:46Joe Rogan?

  It's an honor for me, too. This is like truly insane. I've been blown away before, but I don't think I've ever been blown away this much. This is really nuts, and, uh, it's like shattered my worldview. I have to rethink how I think about everything, and what signals human beings give off, and like how someone could read something like that. Pretty nuts.

• 2:42:07Speaker 02

  Thanks, brother.

• 2:42:07Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 2:42:10Joe Rogan?

  Bye, everybody.

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