#700: Guy Laliberté, Founder of Cirque du Soleil — The Power of Belief, Street Gangs, Wild Tales from Las Vegas, The Dangers of Nurturing Fear, and Dancing on the Cliff

Brought to you by Momentous https://livemomentous.com/tim high-quality supplements, Eight Sleep’s Pod Cover https://eightsleep.com/Tim sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating, and Shopify https://shopify.com/tim global commerce platform, providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business. Guy Laliberté (@guylalibertedj https://www.instagram.com/guylalibertedj) is the founder of Cirque du Soleil https://www.cirquedusoleil.com/, One Drop Foundation https://www.onedrop.org/en/, and Lune Rouge https://lunerouge.com/en/. He was named by Time Magazine as one of the most influential personalities in the world and has been recognized as one of the most creative and innovative minds by Condé Nast. An artist, entrepreneur, and philanthropist, Guy is a three-time winner of the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year Award, including World Entrepreneur of the Year; a Knight of the National Order of Quebec; and an inductee of the Canadian Business Hall of Fame. Guy has been granted the insignia of the Order of Canada, the highest distinction in the country, and in 2010 received his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Guy now dedicates his time to his company, Lune Rouge https://lunerouge.com/en/, and his international nonprofit, One Drop Foundation https://www.onedrop.org/en/, which aims to “ensure sustainable access to safe water, sanitation, and hygiene for communities everywhere through innovative partnerships, creativity, and the power of art.” Visit Frooogs.com https://frooogs.com/ to discover Guy's latest project. Please enjoy! This episode is brought to you by Momentous http://livemomentous.com/Tim high-quality supplements! Momentous offers high-quality supplements and products across a broad spectrum of categories, and I’ve been testing their products for months now. I’ve been using their magnesium threonate https://www.livemomentous.com/pages/tim-ferriss#section-tims-favorite-products, apigenin https://www.livemomentous.com/pages/tim-ferriss#section-tims-favorite-products, and L-theanine https://www.livemomentous.com/pages/tim-ferriss#section-tims-favorite-products daily, all of which have helped me improve the onset, quality, and duration of my sleep. I’ve also been using Momentous creatine https://www.livemomentous.com/pages/tim-ferriss#section-tims-favorite-products, and while it certainly helps physical performance, including poundage or wattage in sports, I use it primarily for mental performance (short-term memory, etc.). Their products are third-party tested (Informed-Sport and/or NSF certified), so you can trust that what is on the label is in the bottle and nothing else. If you want to try Momentous for yourself, you can use code Tim for 20% off your one-time purchase at LiveMomentous.com/Tim http://livemomentous.com/Tim. And not to worry, my non-US friends, Momentous ships internationally and has you covered. * This episode is also brought to you by Eight Sleep http://eightsleep.com/Tim! Eight Sleep’s Pod Cover http://eightsleep.com/Tim is the easiest and fastest way to sleep at the perfect temperature. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking to offer the most advanced (and user-friendly) solution on the market. Simply add the Pod Cover http://eightsleep.com/Tim to your current mattress and start sleeping as cool as 55°F or as hot as 110°F. It also splits your bed in half, so your partner can choose a totally different temperature. Go to EightSleep.com/Tim http://eightsleep.com/Tim and save $250 on the Eight Sleep Pod Cover. Eight Sleep currently ships within the USA, Canada, the UK, select countries in the EU, and Australia. * This episode is also brought to you by Shopify http://shopify.com/tim! Shopify http://shopify.com/tim is one of my favorite platforms and one of my favorite companies. Shopify http://shopify.com/tim is designed for anyone to sell anywhere, giving entrepreneurs the resources once reserved for big business. In no time flat, you can have a great-looking online store that brings your ideas to life, and you can have the tools to manage your day-to-day and drive sales. No coding or design experience required. Go to shopify.com/Tim http://shopify.com/tim to sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period. It’s a great deal for a great service, so I encourage you to check it out. Take your business to the next level today by visiting shopify.com/Tim http://shopify.com/tim. * [06:16] A galvanizing trip to Europe in 1977. [12:31] Busking without going broke. [15:46] Managing Mom and Dad's misaligned values. [25:35] Emerging from a dark teenage period. [31:13] The transcendental power of Cirque du Soleil. [36:25] Beginning a "theater troupe on stilts." [45:00] How Hawaiian epiphanies forged the spirit of Cirque du Soleil. [51:55] Black sheep winning over the wolves. [1:05:57] Drawing from P. T. Barnum and Walt Disney. [1:07:27] Overcoming early financial hurdles. [1:19:31] An opening day that signaled the beginning of never looking back again. [1:27:11] Evaluating danger without nurturing fear. [1:28:36] Buffering against betrayal without surrendering to cynicism. [1:34:12] Steve Wynn for the win. [1:47:55] Blue Ocean Strategy. [1:48:55] Pioneering and inspiring. [1:51:55] Priority and mortality. [1:57:47] Parting thoughts. * For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show https://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description. 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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Shopify, one of my absolute favorite companies, and they make some of my favorite products. Shopify is the commerce platform revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide. And I've known the team since 2008 or 2009. But prior to that, I wish I had personally had Shopify in the early 2000s when I was running my own e-commerce business. I tell that story in The 4-Hour Work Week, but the tools then were absolutely atrocious, and I could only dream of a platform like Shopify. In fact, it was you guys, my dear readers, who introduced me to Shopify when I polled all of you about best e-commerce platforms around 2009, and they've only become better and better since. Whether you're a garage entrepreneur or getting ready for your IPO, Shopify is the only tool

• 0:44Tim Ferriss?

  you need to start, run, and grow your business without the struggle. Shopify puts you in control of every sales channel. Doesn't matter if you're selling satin sheets from Shopify's in-person POS system, or offering organic olive oil on Shopify's all-in-one e-commerce platform. However you interact with your customers, you're covered. And once you've reached your audience, Shopify has the internet's best converting checkout to help you turn browsers into buyers. Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States. And Shopify is truly a global force as the e-commerce solution behind Allbirds, Rothy's, Brooklinen, and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across more than 170 countries. Plus, Shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way if you have questions.

• 1:29Tim Ferriss?

  This is possibility powered by Shopify. So check it out. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify. That's S-H-O-P-I-F-Y. Shopify.com/Tim. Go to Shopify.com/Tim to take your business to the next level today. One more time, all lowercase, Shopify.com/Tim.

• 1:52Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Temperature is one of the main causes of poor sleep and heat is my personal nemesis. I've suffered for decades tossing and turning, throwing blankets off, pulling the back on, putting one leg on top and repeating all of that ad nauseam. But now I am falling asleep in record time. Why? Because I'm using a device that was recommended to me by friends called the Pod Cover by Eight Sleep. The Pod Cover fits on any mattress and allows you to adjust the temperature of your sleeping environment, providing the optimal temperature that gets you the best night's sleep. With the Pod Cover's dual-zone temperature control, you and your partner can set your sides of the bed to as cool as 55 degrees or as hot as 110 degrees.

• 2:33Tim Ferriss?

  I think generally in my experience, my partners prefer the high side and I like to sleep very, very cool. So stop fighting, this helps. Based on your biometrics, environment and sleep stages, the Pod Cover makes temperature adjustments throughout the night that limit wake-ups and increase your percentage of deep sleep. In addition to its best-in-class temperature regulation, the Pod Cover sensors also track your health and sleep metrics without the need to use a wearable. Conquer this winter season with the best in sleep tech and sleep at your perfect temperature. Many of my listeners in colder areas, sometimes that's me, enjoy warming up their bed after a freezing day. And if you have a partner, great, you can split the zones and you can sleep at your own ideal temperatures. It's easy.

• 3:16Tim Ferriss?

  So go to eightsleep.com/tim, spelled out, eightsleep.com/tim, and save $250 on the Pod Cover by Eight Sleep this winter. Eight Sleep currently ships within the US, Canada, the UK, select countries in the EU and Australia.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Can I answer your personal question?

• 3:39Speaker 02

  No, we're seeing an appropriate time.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 3:56Tim Ferriss?

  Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job each and every episode to deconstruct world-class performers, to tease out the backstories, the frameworks, the philosophies, the tactics, and so on, that you can apply to your own lives. And my guest today has been in the works for a long time. I'm thrilled to have him. And if I'm not mistaken, this is his first long-form podcast ever, Guy La Laliberté, who is the founder of Cirque du Soleil, One Drop Foundation, and Lune Rouge, if I'm pronouncing that correctly. My apologies for the French, which I do not speak. He was named by Time Magazine as one of the most influential personalities in the world

• 4:37Tim Ferriss?

  and has been recognized as one of the most creative and innovative minds by Conde Nast. An artist, entrepreneur, and philanthropist, Guy is a three-time winner of the Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the Year Award, which included World Entrepreneur of the Year. He is a Knight of the National Order of Quebec and an inductee of the Canadian Business Hall of Fame. Guy has been granted the insignia of the Order of Canada, the highest distinction in the country, and in 2010, received his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Guy now dedicates his time to his company, Lune Rouge, and his international nonprofit, One Drop Foundation, which aims to ensure sustainable access to safe water, sanitation, and hygiene for communities everywhere through innovative partnerships, creativity, and the power of art.

• 5:19Tim Ferriss?

  This is a wild conversation, full of a lot of unbelievable stories. And we take a few minutes to warm up, but definitely stick around. There's a lot to learn. There are many, many negotiation tactics, philosophical tenets, and more that you can pick up from this conversation. You can find him on Instagram at GuyLaLibertéDJ, and you can find his new projects, which are brand-new projects, and they will contain descriptions of some different projects that we allude to at the end of the conversation, and that is frougues, F-R-O-O-O-G-S.com, and you can get to the English with /en.

• 6:01Tim Ferriss?

  So frougues.com/ en. And without further ado, please enjoy a very wide-ranging, very tactical, very hilarious conversation with Guy La Liberté.

• 6:17Tim Ferriss?

  Guy, nice to see you. Thank you for making the time. I know you are a man on the road. You are a man on the move, which I suppose would be on brand, as I did research for this conversation. You seem like a very hyperkinetic man. And I thought we might start in 1977. I might be getting the date right. I might be getting the date wrong. A trip to Europe. What prompted this trip to Europe? And what was your experience?

• 6:44Speaker 03

  To understand this desire of hitting the road and engage in that journey, which was a very important moment or year of my life, we have to go back a little bit in my childhood. There's always that famous question that adults ask to kids, what do you want to do when you're an adult? And my answer back then was, well, I want to discover the world and I want to travel. And that came from three very important key moment in my life. The first one was, that was the day of when my father brought the first color TV in the house. And the first program we watched was a National Geographic program that showcased basically something I've never seen in my life, which was

• 7:28Speaker 03

  animals that doesn't exist in my own town or my country, colors of skin or dressing of people. So I was just like, so amazed by this colorful impact that it had on me, that it was like, triggered my curiosity. And it stays at that moment. And that drove slowly. And obviously, I was a big fan of those National Geographic. Every time I was coming, it was like, yes, I want to see what's more on this planet. Actually, at that time, it made me realize, and my mom explained to me, she said, listen, you're not only living in a city, or a province, or in a country, or on a continent, you're living on the planet. And that made me realize that the world was bigger than my backyard.

• 8:08Speaker 03

  Second thing, 1967, which was the World Expo in Montreal. My mom, another very curious person, had bought for the family passport. And almost every day of the summer, she was bringing us to this international expo. And we visit pretty much, probably a minimum of three times each, each pavilion that was there, which again, was putting me closer toward being in touch with the culture that I was seeing in the National Geographic. So kind of not where they were, but Close to me in a way that again reinforced this desire of discovering what was out

• 8:51Speaker 03

  there somewhere. I didn't know the notion of distance, but I knew it was far away. And the third thing was, I think, put the cherry on the sundae was when Neil Armstrong walked the moon. I was in a summer camp, black and white TV that time, a bunch of boys, because it was a boys camp. And we spent the entire night, and it was a long program, because they showed up, all the process, the expectation was there, and suddenly, this guy put a foot on the moon. And it was very interesting, because you could see the reaction of the other kids, and even telling, wow, I want to be an astronaut, I want to do, I want to go on the moon, I want to do what is doing. And for me, my

• 9:32Speaker 03

  look at that moment was totally different. It was like, whoa, the little prince story could be real. No, it's very interesting. And then it triggered my belief that if I have a dream, or anything that was dreamy, could be achievable. So from that moment, it was really, okay, how could I shape my rest of my life to be able to travel and discover that world? So obviously, I was about 10, 11 at that time, and I was still too young to adore by myself. Soon, my parents were bringing us more in North America,

• 10:09Speaker 03

  and around the age of 14, 15, we did our first international trip to Cuba. And then, this is where I discover green tomato, beautiful long legs woman dancing dance that doesn't exist in my place, colorful music, happy dancing. So it's just like, wow. And blue collar, the ocean of the sea and the ocean and fish that doesn't exist in the lake. And I was just, yes, I knew it. Here it is, the beginning of a great adventure. But at that time, you know, obviously, I was a minor. So I really start to engage in discovering my province, Hichikin, going in the theater festival, music festival. And in the same

• 10:53Speaker 03

  time, I pick up the accordion of the family of my father, because I come from a family of musician, but traditional music. And I start to realize that maybe I could activate a little bit this adventure, this venture, using music. So I took the time to Prepare a little show myself, sing songs, storytelling, music. And then, short after connecting with a couple of other musicians, creating a band. And that, for three years, permitted us to travel around Canada and a little bit of the States to encounter other musicians, to play on the street, play in music festivals. So I realized that, hey, listen, I could have fun playing music.

• 11:36Speaker 03

  I discovered through this journey the beginning of the pleasure of entertaining people. But mostly, I was able to always go further and further geographically. And then, obviously, after a couple of years, eighteen years old is coming soon. And it was just like, I'm going to Europe. And I had enough money to pay myself open tickets for a year. And I had about fifty bucks in my pocket. But an amazing number of contacts that either I'd met over the previous three years or people that had been in Europe say, hey, you should go in this bar to play. You should meet that person. He's an interesting musician. And went out, hit the road, and basically spent almost a year in Europe discovering

• 12:19Speaker 03

  the pleasure of playing in the street, realizing the impact of making people smile. But mostly, I was achieving my dream. And I came back with more money in my pocket than I left with.

• 12:31Tim Ferriss?

  You came back with more money than you traveled there with. So I assume, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that means you were busking and entertaining and earning money in that way. What were the keys to good busking? What did you learn about effective busking?

• 12:46Speaker 03

  First of all, where do you busk? Because it's not every corner of the street that you can make your, get your bread and breakfast money. So one of them is really to rapidly identify in a city, where's the hotspot for people to busk? Okay? And obviously, there's already busker when he arrives. You don't invent the wheel. You're just observing. But then you have to deal with territorial situations. So you have two ways of dealing with that. Either you provoke and you confront, which normally is not the right way to do, or you engage. Engage in the street neighborhood, which is not always busker, but it's also a lot of different people of all kind, very colorful, very misfit people,

• 13:30Speaker 03

  very disrupting people, but also amazing personality, because a lot of artists are there, musicians. So you engage in a community that belonged to this, the city. But what I realized is basically there's two things, the busking business in, in, in Europe. It was the permanent people, the people who live in that city that didn't move and they were the, the one that was there every day. But there was the traveling people. I rapidly recognized that if you play the game well, if you're socially engaged and, and respectful of certain rules that exist and you have to learn about them, then you engage in a community that is really supporting of each other. And then you make friends and then you decide with the traveler, when to do, I don't know,

• 14:15Speaker 03

  two weeks with the violin player or a week with the belly dancer or the fire breeder person. So through this experience, it's not only encountering a community that was much bigger in Europe than it was in Quebec, because you know, obviously Quebec, we have the climate factor, which is a little difficult to busk at minus thirty on the corner of the street of Montreal. So the timeline is pretty limited and also the population is much smaller. Paris was my base at the beginning. This is where I speak French, arrived there. And from Paris, then I start met a lot of people. And then you start to engage. Okay, well, do I go to Ireland or go to that festival? And I kind of like organically, the rhythm or the speed of the wind,

• 14:59Speaker 03

  you know, it's like, oh, I was waking up in the morning. I was like, okay, let's go there. It's hiking, again, depending the success of each height, you could arrive on time or not. So it was this journey of going from one place to the other one with people or alone and, and making friends and engage and jamming, making money, learning. This is where I learned all my fire breeding things, a little bit of the performance size of a busker, because there's a music side and there's a performing side. So this is where that I start to also engage in learning. You know, I had never been a specialist of things, but I've always been a very good generalist. Time after time, I was practicing things and, and basically my offer to the street

• 15:44Speaker 03

  was a little wider at the end after a year.

• 15:46Tim Ferriss?

  So let's talk a little bit about your mom and dad. How did your values differ from perhaps your parents when you got back? Maybe a different way of looking at that would be asking what their hopes for you were, and then what your hopes for yourself were.

• 16:01Speaker 03

  First of all, my parents were amazing characters to start. They were entertaining, not knowing they were entertaining. My father probably a little bit more. My mom, my father had this way of triggering reaction. My mom, and it was create that amazing, funny, dramatic moment that was trigger their own story to be shared with us, with the children and my friends. They were entertaining us all the time. My mom come from a very specific type of family. Both of them were very poor. My mom worked her ass out to be a nurse, hit the road at the age of 18. She had her stud baker at 18, hit the road to California as an adventurer with two other nurses, work colleague, musician, piano player. My father come from the other side.

• 16:44Speaker 03

  He was coming from a neighborhood in Quebec, which is like a bunch of kids hustling, playing tricks, having fun and getting away with it by just being what some people would think bad little boys, but they were having fun. And actually, he was the another weirdo there. He always made his way, got broke so many times because he was a gambler. But, you know, he was the most amazing entertainer. He end up his career as vice president of an account company, not because he was forming one of the school of that, but because he was the best person in the company. When client, international client was coming to Montreal, he was organizing all the party and all the client was going back signing the contract.

• 17:28Speaker 03

  And whatever need he was organizing it. So I learned these things. And by the way, and this is pretty special because I not met many people who qualify in that in all my life. And many years after I grew up, or still now, I never heard a bad word about my father. It was always guess now, clean, amazing guy. My father was always smiling. It was always like humor, smiling, not reacting to things. Where my mom was that little scorpion, it was like she was picking, picking, it was mama controls. And the dynamic was interesting, but I grew up in this type of family.

• 18:09Speaker 03

  One brother, we were fire and water together, but now we're best friends because we're both parents. Passed out last year. And then the grand family, my father was coming from a family of eight, seven sister and him. And the grandmother had a twin, so together, you know, on the father's side family, there was about over a hundred twenty people, uncle, one and ten things. And every weekend, in one of the house, and nobody had money. Nobody was the rich one. The richest one was uncle that had a printer company. He was printing pamphlet and stuff like that. Tell you a little bit how rich we were. But every weekend, somewhere in one of the house, there was always, from Friday night to Sunday night, forty-eight hour party.

• 18:55Speaker 03

  We're the kids, we were, I remember, we're just sleeping on the floor, ten kids, pile or not. They were doing music, playing cards, have fun, drinking, getting drunk, singing, arguing. And all my life, I've seen that family supporting each other in terms of when one of them was screwing up. There was never judgment. And you know, this is what I grew up on. So my roots is love. Support is community spirit. It's like understanding that nobody's perfect. So I learned a lot out of that. I didn't understand it at the beginning, you know, because obviously when you grow, especially at the teenager moment, then it's starting to be a little confrontation. And there's many story I could tell, but I don't think it's relevant, more than saying.

• 19:40Speaker 03

  In their heart, they try to educate you, the parents, in terms of what they believe is a good thing for you based on their value. So at my time, my childhood, being a doctor, being a judge, or whatever, was the consecration. You know, you're an engineer, you get a good salary, you have security. And I was trying all my life to my teenager moment to try to explain, well, listen, I have a call. I was like, I don't like that. And every time I do that, I learn more, have fun doing that, I do more money than that now than I'm doing. Yeah, it build up, you know, I wanna have long hair, now you have to shorten that, you have to go to church. It was like all this type of things. So I was very confrontational. And actually, they helped me because when they were punishing me, they were putting

• 20:25Speaker 03

  me into my room, and this is where I learned music, this is where I practiced my music. By rage, I was transferring my rage in not being dark. That being said, I was in a dark moment from 11 to 14 for other reason. But when my parents was all of that, then I left home at 14 years old. Enough is enough. One amazing mom in my life, one teacher. Moral science, because you could have the option of Catholic, you know, or moral science. Obviously, I was rejecting the religion, but I was interested again in the moral sense. And then one day, he threw a text to all the students in there. The text was about Kailo Gibran, the prophet. Yeah, I have a copy at home. The page about the children. I said, the children are not your children.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  I was just like, it blew my mind. That text was everything. I wanna say it to my parents. So I think within a week or two weeks after, I got in conflict with my parents and left home, hit the road, because they want me to cut their hair and there was another things. And I took the page and I wrote on the piece of everyone, you will understand that. Meaning of that text will be able to communicate. That's pretty brutal at fourteen years old when you throw a text like that in the face of your father and mother. And actually, it was a very important moment in my relation. The first, like, this is where the first time I stand by my, my thing. Before, I was arguing, I was screaming, I was like bitching. But this is really what I say, enough is enough.

• 21:53Speaker 03

  We have to make a point in our relationship because I'm not happy. I'm at the point I'm questioning if you love me. But things like, you know, all the teenager turmoil, you know, this is a very, being a teenager, this is the most fragile time in your life if you're not being aggressive sexually before the age of tens or beat up. But if you have a normal life, this is a very fragile moment. So obviously, it came back. My mom was crying and stuff like that. Came back like ten days after and then I sat down and said, let's make a deal. We don't agree a lot of things, but I will continue my school. You pay for my lunch, my, my clothes, but I want to be having the right of keeping my hair long.

• 22:32Speaker 03

  And second, work to earn my own money to pay myself what I want because I'm tired, Dad, of every time I ask you something, you ask me to do something for it. And enough, you know, because sometime things could go there because I'm trying to ask you things to be able to achieve things, but it's always a negotiation. And you try to bring back in your way of things. So I cleared that and it worked. Actually, that deal worked pretty good because without supporting everything I was doing, there was at least a dialogue that took place. And there was some up and down. But I realized, and this is where the first thing I realized is actually at the end,

• 23:12Speaker 03

  all this courage that I have going and hitting the road, taking risks in my adventure, I always knew somewhere. And I realized that after, and it's maybe that subconscious or this.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  Turd eye or six cents or whatever, but I realized that, hey, wait a minute. I knew and I know exactly what they were about. They never told me if you cross that door, don't come back, first of all. You know, and you know how many parents screwed up when they said that to their kids? And second, I realized that if I screwed up, I would always be able to come back. I would have a bed, food, and love and comfort. And this had triggered this enormous wave of courageous desire to even engage more. They didn't know that at the moment. They think I was crazy because I was doing more than I was doing previously. And then obviously, there was this confrontation about starting to do business and entertainment

• 24:07Speaker 03

  because it was one thing for them to understand that I was using art or music to live and experience. In our conversation, I always made them believe that I would come back to schools, but I was always every year extending the return to school. But when they realize, when they realize Wait a minute, yeah. That I was shifting and I consciously made the decisions not go to school, but give myself the chance to live out of entertainment. Whoa, that was difficult. With my mom, it took the first year of Sig de Salle to realize it and she collapsed in line. So now I understand. My father, it took three more years because it was still some issue related to I reached him a couple of times for financial help to help to

• 24:51Speaker 03

  go through some tough moment and it was coming back with his old moral or condition and it pissed me off. But we had a great conversation in a steakhouse, Moshe's in Montreal, a good bottle of wine and with a big dill pickle and Kosh Lo Salin. And we made peace there and from that moment, I brought them everywhere in the world with me. We became good friends. We had our up and down, but it was an amazing connection, you know, in the life of a children or any relationship with parents, when that's, you know, obviously, it's not instant, but you always wish that the complete connection of the circle of this relationship is done before one of us die. And I did accomplish that with my parents and this is another beautiful gift of life that I had.

• 25:35Tim Ferriss?

  I may want to come back to that. I mean, I know a lot of people who have not been able to do that. That may be for a bottle of wine another time, but I want to connect the dots to Cirque du Soleil. But before we get there, if you're open to talking about it, and we can always cut this afterwards if you want to cut it. But you mentioned that you had a dark period from 11 to 14. And my main question is how you got out of that dark period. But would you be willing to say a bit more about that?

• 25:57Speaker 03

  I could share. I could share. I've been sharing with people. Yeah, it's part of my life. My close friends know, and I have no problem talking about that. And that's actually related to a very big problem in the world that we're living. And it's coming out and keep coming out year after year, which is all about this Catholic Church controlling schools, abusing children, and being excused because they were the voice of God. So at the end of 10, my parents sent me to high school in a college in Montreal, which I was a boarding school. And obviously, soon I realized with my friends that a bunch of priests that one of them abuse sexually. So I resist that. I beat that up. But I had a friend who

• 26:39Speaker 03

  suicide himself. And so I start to be very, very reactive. And it brought me a lot of angrieness. Because, you know, what is the feeling? First, you resist. I've not been raped. But I've been, they try it. And I got their trick. I resist. I fight it back. But there's some other kids there that didn't have this courage of reacting. And they were my friends. And they, they got beat up in the sense of, of kill their soul. And then one suicide himself. So obviously, and I was incapable of saying to my parents at that time, remember, I was 10 years old, 11. And knowing my parents were religious. So obviously, would I be punished? Or would I, I didn't know. I was confused about the information.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  And I guess there was a taboo things because I see my parents were very religious. I was confused. So I kept that for myself and among my friends. So I build up this desire to destroy. To the point of a certain moment, even because of another event later, I left two events a little bit like that. And the last one, which is kind of like the add on of that, I arrived to a point where I want to kill. The person, and actually, I was not feeling that. So, that dark moment, it really was present. I was doing things that was not necessarily creative, that was more destroying. I was doing things that is not how I was educated. It's not what I was feeling, but I was doing it by rage.

• 28:01Speaker 03

  And this is where it's super important to understand that what saved me out of that darkness is music and this desire of traveling and actually activating the action of getting out of my city and getting out of my environment, because that was toxic. It was contaminated by what I had lived as children, and I was not able to see the beauty, and I was just seeing the darkness. And going out of this circle, geographical circle, had permitted me to slowly heal these things to a point where at a certain moment, I remember, that was a very, very precise moment where I have the address, I knew where this person that tried to rape me was living,

• 28:43Speaker 03

  and I kept in my pocket always the address, because I said, if I pass by there, I want revenge. And at a certain moment, I physically took the paper, ripped it off, put it in garbage, and that was it. I was leaving my future, and I boom, but again, this is how lucky I am. Do you know how many kids, their life would be destroyed for things like that? So again, what that comes from, is it the love of my parents, this understanding of your dad, this feeling that the way you think is not the way you want to be, and overcome that. Do you know how many friends have not survived that? How many people have been, their life have been destroyed by living something like that? So, obviously, once I overcome that, I become so engaged in those type of value and defending

• 29:28Speaker 03

  that, that I become very, very strong about not allowing those type of things in my surrounding, combat that, fight that, not with my fist, but with my creativity. For me, making people live an emotion because they live a moment of joy.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  And when you're capable of putting down the walls that the people put in general around them to protect because they got hurt before, and you bring them to the point that they put down those walls and open their heart for you to plant a seed and make me realize that part of my job is not only to be a merchant of happiness, but a soft medicine healer of the soul. I don't know how you could do that side. And then it reversed totally. At the moment I start to feel this power that to understand that feed the circle of life is feed you back. And it was like very, very powerful. And it's like trying to explain it in a colorful way, but the dynamic is what I just explained to you. So it's very interesting because sometime people tell a story, but they don't tell the source of

• 30:32Speaker 03

  why you are there. And there's many other things that I learned my lesson out. But this is a typical example that you could reverse negative and build it to even be better. So what do you believe in that? Of course, that person, those person was wrong because this is not right. But on the other side, if I didn't live that moment, maybe I would be a different person and not realize very young in my life that wait a minute, no, I would not be and I would not use that type of power over other people. So it's very interesting. We could talk and talk. This is my philosophical part of the brain. But those are typical way that I learn out of everything I engage in.

• 31:13Tim Ferriss?

  Guy, thank you for sharing that. And I'm sorry that you and your friends experienced that. And as a spectator, as a, I guess, participant, but from the stands, someone who's gone to many Cirque du Soleil performances, it's beautiful for me to hear how you referred metaphorically to the lowering of those walls, those protective mechanisms, because we don't have to spend much time on this. But I was very badly abused when I was very young, two to four. And I have very well established walls. But when I've gone to Cirque du Soleil performances, and there are a few places in life where this is true, but it's where I can forget those stories and become engaged with awe and wonder in

• 31:56Tim Ferriss?

  a way that allows me to exhale and experience these things very fully in a very tangible way. So I just wanted to reflect back my personal experience.

• 32:08Speaker 03

  And you'll be surprised, because I always said, you know, to hit the Big Seven, which is having the privilege on this planet to be born on the right side of the planet, having the love of your parents, water, food, not being beat physically before the age of 10s or sexually abused. Well, I have a question, Haran. I will tell you, like, there's not many that qualify for the Big Seven. So this is very important to understand. I believe in the society we're living. It's a lot of creepy and twisted things that happen to human beings and that human beings do to each other. So, again, Sigdis Selaya, I'm so happy to hear your story, because two things.

• 32:50Speaker 03

  My show, where about, of course, the spectacular of it, the things like that. This is like, this was the big pleasure. But the fundamental satisfaction was coming from two things. Really having the impression that each of my show was helping to build a better world in two ways. First, in exposing, because all my show was all about inspired by the culture of the world, either through the music, the costume, the team, and things like that. My artist was a mosaic of all these beautiful people around the world that was performing. So for me, I believe that I was a promoter of one world. And by then, opened the mind of people that there's other people than you, and they could be beautiful too, and they don't have to think like you. That one.

• 33:33Speaker 03

  The second one is really what I just explained about this wall. Because I believe strongly that the power of love overcome the power of hate, because it's a feeling. So when people feel something that extremely profound and deep in the emotion of joys, well, they will try and they will look into living that again and again and again. And the same effect when somebody suffers something. And this is why sometime one event of aggressivity could provoke a monster. Why? Because the emotion is there and he, he want to give revenge. So he's building even more what he had in this. So it's like, it goes both way.

• 34:15Speaker 03

  And like I said, I'm so happy to make that choice of my life, that I could have this tools of this healing tools that I believe is... Think, my job at Sigdis Selaya, I did a lot of things. But one of the most important function I has, when we create a show... My job was to assure that every my show, it could be a fraction of a second, that any spectator in the place would say, wow, they did that for me. You know, whatever it is. And if I was able in my show to make people feel that I did that for them, that was the most wall was falling down at that moment. So again, just understanding the psychology, the world, different way, radical acceptance, a recognition that nothing's perfect.

• 35:00Speaker 03

  It was just like, this is all came through my journey. And sick was the sandbox in which I was able to build that castle.

• 35:09Tim Ferriss?

  Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by Momentous. Momentous offers high quality supplements and products across a broad spectrum of categories, including sports performance, sleep, cognitive health, hormone support, and more. I've been testing their products for months now and I have a few that I use constantly. Personally, I've been using Momentous Mag 3-8, L-theanine, and apigenin, all of which have helped me to improve the onset quality and duration of my sleep. Now, the Momentous Sleep Pack conveniently delivers single servings of all three of these ingredients. Momentus also partners with some of the best minds in human performance to bring world-class products to market, including a few you will recognize from this podcast,

• 35:54Tim Ferriss?

  like Dr. Andrew Huberman and Dr. Kelly Starrett. Their products contain high-quality ingredients that are third-party tested, which in this case means informed sport and/or NSF certified. So you can trust that what is on the label is in the bottle and nothing else. So check it out. Visit livemomentous.com/tim and use code TIM at checkout for 20% off. That's live momentus, L-I-V-E-M-O-M-E-N-T-O-U-S.com/tim and code TIM for 20% off.

• 36:25Tim Ferriss?

  Let's track your path to the sandbox because there are many people who busk. I actually did a very small amount of busking in Paris, actually. But it pissed everybody off because I wasn't asking for money. I just did acro yoga with another woman who was there.

• 36:38Speaker 03

  Place Bobourg?

• 36:39Tim Ferriss?

  I think we were actually near, I'm not going to pronounce it properly, but near the gardens, was it Tulleries or something?

• 36:45Speaker 03

  Oui, les jardins de la Tulleries.

• 36:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yes.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  Les jardins de la Tulleries.

• 36:49Tim Ferriss?

  I was close, I was close. So we were nearby there.

• 36:51Speaker 03

  In front of the Louvre, in front of the Louvre.

• 36:53Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, very, exactly. And there are many buskers, many people who busk, but very few people who create something like Cirque du Soleil. So you come back from Europe. Could you describe some of the key decisions or moments leading up to Cirque du Soleil after you return?

• 37:10Speaker 03

  Actually, when I came back, I was not yet decided if I was going back to school or not. Again, I find another way to extend my year not going to school, to tell my father, well, I need to make money now. Could you help me to have a job? I had a friend who had a factory to do a window for the RVs and trailers. So I worked there for months. Obviously, this was a factory job, but it was bringing a little money while I was playing in bars with music and still willing dealing anything that I could sell on the side.

• 37:38Tim Ferriss?

  What kind of stuff would you be selling on the side? Not baseball cards, anything?

• 37:43Speaker 03

  Anything, anything. I will find anything. I was able to see opportunity to make a buck on anything.

• 37:49Tim Ferriss?

  So you just like buy a bicycle at a yard sale and then sell it to somebody else?

• 37:53Speaker 03

  Something like that. Or yeah, yeah, yeah, or buy, I always sell a bunch of jeans and going things and making five bucks over the jeans at school, whatever. I was a dealer dealer. I was a hustler also, you know, I was good at baguette and I was like a pool and stuff, a little bit of everything, you know? I always I'd like to put to challenge. I love competition. I said same competition amongst people. I think this permit you to, it's like playing poker. You discover personality of people by being a good chess player. That's nice. And actually, it's something I play in business later on. But, but at that moment, we're talking about when I come back to Europe. So 1978, 79, got that job. And then there's another friend my father had, because at that time, the biggest job you could have

• 38:37Speaker 03

  was to go work on the dam in the north, the electrical dam. The wages there was like you were sent there. You had the highest wages, extra hours. You were working seven hours. It's like you were doing so much money. So my father got me that job. So I go there. Then, three days after I arrived there, my syndicate go and strike.

• 38:57Tim Ferriss?

  Your syndicate is like the union of the workers?

• 39:00Speaker 03

  The union, the union. Got in stride three days after. I got, oh, here we go. My summer is screwed. My money is out. Bad timing. Then I come back. They want me to go picking. I have nothing to do with their things, you know, to be honest, I was, it's a community that I didn't even engage with, you know, like, I don't know, I didn't feel emotionally engaged to go picking because they were giving you a check, small check, but they were giving you a check. So what I decided to do, I said, where did I didn't go in my province? And there was one place, Bay Saint Paul, okay, which is a little village, North Quebec, which had the reputation of one of the coolest youth hotels there. And I said, wait a minute. I have a little check. I'll go there. I'll offer my service to help against a bed and food.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  That was it. And I'll wait. I didn't know when the strike would stop or not, but it ended up to be all summer. So when I arrived there, climbed the hill, and funny enough, I see Gilles Saint-Claude, that is one of the most important person in my life with Saint-Denis-Saint-Denis, and another guy, Daniel Gautier, that was my school friend, which was, we left a relationship, not a good note. And there I go, I said, okay, why do we end up with this guy that I want to see? But it's part of this, it was a nonprofit organization, and I arrived at the time where they were shaping the youth hotels. So we prepared the things. I got the job of animating. So I was in charge of the party.

• 40:25Tim Ferriss?

  You in charge of parties at the hostel?

• 40:28Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 40:28Tim Ferriss?

  Okay.

• 40:29Speaker 03

  Parties, organizing things. That's what I was good to. I always been good at doing those things, organizing trips and stuff like to Louisiana at fifteen years old, running the Mardi Gras. Many of those mini stories there that we could talk for a long time. But this one was an important one because first, the deal was, they were telling me, we cannot pay you, but we could offer you a roof and a bed. I said, that's okay with me, but could I have maybe the opportunity of making a little more money? I said, I'll organize your party, but I want to be able to pick up every beer bottle on the site. And earn the money of the beer bottle.

• 41:04Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, like the redemption, like you get the

• 41:06Speaker 03

  Exactly, the two cents or the five cents, but I'm telling you, after every day, there was a truck of anti-bottle. I made so much money going back and selling every day those bottles that I end up having a very little contract of music and the bar and the cafe. I end up having a pretty decent thing. And this is where Gilles Saint-Cua, which was coming out of, was also a very interesting misfit creature. He was just coming back from an experience at Bread and Puppet in Vermont. I don't know if you remember.

• 41:38Tim Ferriss?

  You know, I just heard about Bread and Puppet or Bread and Puppets for the first time from some of my family who live in Vermont. Literally last week, they just told me about it.

• 41:47Speaker 03

  Because you're probably too young to remember that. They're still there, but at that time, there was this leader and the Bread and Puppet movement was anti-war, right? It came during the Vietnam War and they had that farm in Vermont that they shaped and they had a magic wood. And every year they were doing this festival and they were the master of stilts walking. And Jill came back of that and said, I have an idea. Let's do, you know, I'm doing music, we're doing a little theater. So let's start a theater troupe on stilts. That's the end of seventy-nine. Then in the falls, I got called for the strike sale and I go back to work on the dam. And Jill, in the meantime, choose another partner. I said, okay, well, you're not doing a collective. You want to do business?

• 42:32Speaker 03

  Fine, I said, but I won't hire you. I said, well, listen, I'm going in Mexico. Came back, went to the dam. A month after Jill said, I have the grant of the thing that you want to be an artist in my troupe. I said, I don't know.

• 42:45Tim Ferriss?

  So a grant, this is from the government?

• 42:47Speaker 03

  The government, yeah, yeah. Basically, they had those grants that you could have enough money to pay salary for the summer. You know, in that region of Quebec, it was very simple. Eighty percent of population was working on grant salary during the summer and get unemployment check during the winter. This is what that region is about. So basically, you need twenty weeks to work to get your check the rest of the year. And that's what the life and most of people was living on that pattern. But I didn't know. So what I said, I said to my employer, I said, listen, I didn't have a house. I said, my house just went on fire. Could I have a couple of weeks to just go organize a thing? I didn't want to lose my job. You know, because if I say I quit, that's it, I'm done. So I didn't know if I'm gonna work.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  So I mailed that story, I got the permission, went there. Never went back, but at least I had that back off. It's always, you know, you're playing chess in life. I know, it's like you make a move, but you want to know what's your back move. That was one of them. So, so eventually, I accept to be one of the artists in this theater, Trubone Stilts, which was in partnership with this guy, Silvenero. We end up to be so bad for the business. So at the end of the season, actually, we had an amazing experience. It was a summer of my first big love in my life and an amazing theatrical, original experience. But bad relationship with the management, especially that guy. So everybody was like, eh, we don't like the guy.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  They end up bankrupt at the end of the season. Gilles said, well, you know, it's like I'm making mistakes. And we all decided to create a nonprofit organization, buy back the, the assets and started under a new company, which was the original, the foundation company that we built Sig de Soleil with in the future. So step two of that was to manage. And then I was tour manager. I was like assuming a marketing, business function. I was, I was able to give my skill. And we had an amazing 1980 summer. This is the year also of the federal election. I was a candidate at the Rhino Service Party, you know, there was this like crazy party that was promising anything.

• 44:58Speaker 03

  I was a political candidate. We had a lot of fun.

• 45:00Tim Ferriss?

  Quick question. So was the performance at that time still mostly theater on stilts or had it changed?

• 45:06Speaker 03

  Theater on stilts, music, fire breeding. But that moment, I really had mastered, I would say, in all the skill I had, probably fire was the highest level I was mastering. So I had my pyro license. I was one of the best.

• 45:23Speaker 03

  Fire breeder in the world. I was developing device to manipulate fire. I was organizing show with fire. And this was my personal, I would said, feature. And I was very proud about it. And I was recognized for being one of the best Quebec fire player or fire master. That being said, then we did one season and the winter I was always, again, twenty weeks of work and people were going and getting their paycheck for the rest of the winter. It was not my style. For me, it was about, okay, the job's finished. I was hitting the road all the time. So, one time on a motorcycle, going to Montreal, Key West, then San Diego, and then jumping there.

• 46:07Speaker 03

  But in nineteen seventy-nine, nineteen eighty and nineteen seventy-nine, at the end of the first year, which was my love affair, I discovered Hawaii. Summer was the love of my life back then, first big love. And at the end of the year, it was like the broken art of my life. The first, within six months, seven months, it was like I went from, wow, this is love and singing, oh, heartbreaking is very hard, is very painful. So, I had to take care somewhere. So, I was a friend that was in Hawaii on the big island, Kona, that I passed by and arrived there. And wow, I was discovering a part of the world that I didn't see. I always want to go Hawaii because my parents told me so many good things about it. And then I was there and it was very interesting.

• 46:52Speaker 03

  There was an interesting EP community's performer there. There was like the EP side, there was, you know, nice nightlife, simple life and mellow things, but I was still in pain and it was a very interesting moment in my life. So, for the two first week, it was fun, get to know people, but I was, I had this sadness inside me and I was heartbroken. And I was getting this little cafe or juice, I was not drinking coffee, but like this milkshake type of things, you know, in the morning at the same cafe. And there was always this old EP there. I remember he was a magician, I learned that after. That was always the same time with me. And the soon moment he approached me and he said, Hey, what's wrong with you? He said, what's wrong with you? You asked me the question, what's wrong with me?

• 47:37Speaker 03

  And I said, well, there's nothing wrong. He said, ah, you're not on the vibe. I said, what do you mean on the vibe? You're fighting the rhythm. You know, this guy was throwing me like that. It was like, sitting down, didn't even invite himself. He invited himself and he said, wait a minute, I'm in my bubble of pain. And then this just keeps throwing me those things. You're not feeling the vibe of the island. And he said, and someone said, you know what? I know I'm disturbing you there, but I will tell you one last thing. I said, try to feel the rhythm of the island and the island will bring you on the right side of your soul. Boom. Okay, what is that? And at that moment, and you know, I could be very thing, but I listened.

• 48:16Speaker 03

  You have to understand, remember, Cal Gibrand over at things is like my first philosophical reading and I've rammed on it. Everything that make poetic sense or whatever I was, it got my attention after that. Because when you're capable of reading behind the word and the meaning of it, I start to discover. And this is where I start to like words. Before that, it was pain. But now I start to understand then and I really reflect on that. And watching sunset. And then I start to just, and this island changed my life. This is where I start to get inspired. I connect with a Lua troops. I was doing my fire ants. I was playing accordion in the Italian restaurant, going and hustling a baguette in the bar after.

• 49:01Speaker 03

  And you know, meaning and realizing that actually so many things at that moment. I'll try to mention all of that. First of all, at that time, there was hundred one type of religion or spiritual faction that was on there. On the island? On the island. Let me realize, wait a minute, because at the same time you hear about all those fight about religion and that. And you say, wait a minute, this is like, what is it? And then you suddenly see a piece of land on earth that people live in peace with each other and respect. Wait a minute, oh, something. Then you meet all those healer with potion, with growing herbs and stuff like that. And there's this healing spirit on the island.

• 49:43Speaker 03

  You see people at a rhythm that doesn't exist on the North American continent. There's a pace that is more toward the pace of the, the rhythm of the wave of the island or the wind instead of the subway rhythm. And then you meet a bunch of. Performer that we hang out on the beach every day and perform on the naked beach, on the non-naked beach, this party there, full party. And then I start to, for the first time in my life, got to what I believe still today, the closest to meditation on my side. I'm not a meditating guy. It's like I never stopped, the Amsterdam I had. But when I watch, when I watch sunset, this is a very peaceful things.

• 50:25Speaker 03

  And this Hawaiian sunset, this is where I start to think about project. Remember, every winter I was coming out of, that was the second year of the, not first year and then second. I went there three years before we did the Fête Fourrée, which I'll talk. But the sun was my inspiration moment. So I start to think about project, creating this. So my creative mind explode there, okay? The reason why the name Soleil, Ségé Soleil is for two reasons. The inspiration to the sun of the big island, okay, sunset, which are amazing. And at that time, in the symbolic book of Sembol, sun was the symbol of the energy of youth. So that was, this is the name of my company. You said, "Ségé Soleil", it came later.

• 51:08Speaker 03

  But before that, while I was there, every winter was going there, finding my old friends and just having, it became my healing island that for the rest of my life, every time I have a business decision, an emotional distress, a question about my decision to be made, this is where I'd find my answers. Every time I was coming there, I was planting the seeds of my question. And then I knew that when I come out of there, the answer would be there, whatever decision I made, and it were pretty much all good. So, this is where the evolution of the theater troupe on stilts, you know, we were trying to grow and then Gilles say, "Okay, we'll do a winter version on Skait." And now on the arena, I said, "Not for me there. I'm not spending a winter here.

• 51:53Speaker 03

  I'm a beach bomber, I'm not a ski bomber." And this is where I start to talk about the project of a street performing festival in Bay Saint Paul. And with Gilles, what we did in 1982, we went into this village, which is very traditional painting, you know, this place is recognized by all, this is a people. Is for art is a pain landscape and things like that. So we were already black sheep there. The youth social people in this village of wolf mentality, you know, you have to understand this is all the old traditional families that are direct line from the founders of Quebec, you know, the people who got thrown in the boat by the French as and things and build this country. And actually, it's very, it's not this wolf mentality, because it's all very strong

• 52:38Speaker 03

  established family. So when you're a stranger coming there.

• 52:41Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, I see. There's this aggressive, when you say wolf mentality.

• 52:44Speaker 03

  Well, yes, yes, and clan, clan, they're very protective. And you arrive a bunch of people who are in a youth cell or maybe dancing naked around a fire, taking substance and and actually, the first business that's been opened by our community there is called Le Mouton Noir, the café, the restaurant was called The Black Sheep.

• 53:10Speaker 03

  We made a statement that we will assume the perception that we have. So you could imagine, and they had that festival at that time, which is an art festival, painting, very touchy, white glove, white glove festival, you know, it's like an institution. And we arrive wanting to close the street and do a street performing festival. So we have to go through all the political level, convinces, and then sponsorship. We're selling, you know, in our program, sending five dollar little business card size in our program to the merchant, but we have to convince the people to give us a chance. And it became a success. And I was like, financially, we lost a little bunny, but we had the attention of the big city in terms of culture. We brought, the merchant was super happy.

• 53:56Tim Ferriss?

  So the Black Sheep go pitching this crazy idea in this, let's just call it maybe a conservative town, protective town. What was the key to the pitch?

• 54:06Speaker 03

  I don't know, you know, it's like, I guess, again, it's all conviction. Like I said, me and Jill is a charming human being. Always pause, never raising, I'm the, I was the jester, the

• 54:19Tim Ferriss?

  The jester.

• 54:21Speaker 03

  The jester, the speedy Gonzalez guy. I'm always like, hands up, talking like that, but with a lot of passion. But we arrived with something I believe was safe enough, colorful enough.

• 54:33Speaker 03

  Business wise, maybe, maybe we'll have a good economy came back for us. So we got a shot, we got a shot. And actually, pretty well on, obviously, and again, the last day, the last day of the last show in the arena, because all those street performers were there. There was workshop, people were learning how to do clowning in the wood, in the mountain, whatever. We organized a very nice program. You know, it was not a big budget, but people showed up. And mostly, a lot of my international friends decided to come and visit us because we were booking, co-booking. The big paycheck was from the main festival in Quebec City, but I got a good deal if I was getting a deal for them Quebec, so that justified them to come. And I got them for a good price.

• 55:18Speaker 03

  But we had that closing show in the arena, which was everybody on the scene together. And where the last moment is the fanfare is there and I'm blowing fire. And that moment is a thunderstorm. And we're playing that track that's called the fanfare, which means the person that walk on the, on the wire. It became more anthem tracks. And we're in a grand finale and suddenly the storm shut down all electricity and we're just with the flame, the camera. Super dramatic. And I still have goosebumps. And this, there was a big, big quantity of the Quebec street performer. And this is where we look at each other, it was so emotional and I said, okay,

• 56:01Speaker 03

  let's think about, maybe it would be time to think about creating our own circus. Okay? And this is what inspired me. The first flame of inspiration came out. Wow, look at all us together on stage, imagine under a big dome. Start to share that, but obviously, starting a circus far more difficult than doing a street performing festival. So we did a second year in nineteen, that was nineteen eighty-two. In nineteen eighty-three, we do the, the second version of it and that's greater success. And then we got the attention of the government because nineteen eighty-four was a celebration, the four hundred fiftieth anniversary of Discovery of Canada, both celebrating by the federal side and the provincial side.

• 56:45Speaker 03

  And you have to understand the provincial, we're French Canadian, we're frogs or French fries. And then the Anglo-Saxon on the other side. And obviously, the government want to celebrate and, and both. Take a position very political, so there's a lot of money that is thrown for cultural shows, activities, or things, so special money. So I've been invited, based on the success of Fédéren, to propose a project. And this is where that moment, I said, well, this is our window. So we build relationship with the director of programming, but we're still, remember, I'm dealing now with the government, a cultural minister that is so in the high-end class C.

• 57:28Speaker 03

  I'm hanging out with the stars, so you're thinking about a government where this minister of culture is totally star systeming, you know? In all the different departments of culture, you have dance, opera, singing, whatever, music, street performing circus was not there. Basically, you have to understand the social reality there is, and the mentality of whatever festival government was about, pay them a sandwich, they'll entertain you for 50 minutes. Okay, so this is where we started.

• 57:59Tim Ferriss?

  Their assumption was, it was very low.

• 58:00Speaker 03

  We're the low braid, we're down the food chain, okay? We're way down the food chain. Everybody get the money, everybody get the contract and things. And here I am, with one other friend that was, who was actually the real co-founder, is not the other one, the other one came later, but there's one real co-founder that left after the first year. So we engaged ourselves of going pitching to the government. And then there's different level of contract you could get, but there was this artistic director that was in charter programming, Jacques Lano, that really we had connect, but I was pushing him to the, he was coming red sometimes, this is not what I'm asking

• 58:39Speaker 03

  you, you know, we had to fit in the formula, and I'm trying to pitch the first Quebec circus, and I'm trying to explain to him, you believe in it, but he said, you will not be able to sell that to the government, you will not. I said, no, no, this is, this is the time. And then slowly, by slowly, they will buy us to hire or put in our team somebody that was recognized by the government, a friend of mine, we played with her, but she was absolutely not the same level. But slowly, and I will always remember the thing, because there was that famous cap of a million dollar contract, and it's not grant, those were contract negotiating. And my project, that what I wanna do with some compromise was costing 1.7 million. But to have over a million dollar, you have to do a minister council.

• 59:23Speaker 03

  So they didn't wanna bring a freak like me as a proposed content provider, especially not that minister that doesn't like a street performer. So basically, I will always remember you pitch in front of commissary, the minister and stuff. I have two documents on table. One big cover colors. And I put a corner there and I have a black and white one. Okay. And then, because they asked me to stay at 999.99, okay? A one dollar under the million dollar project. And I did work. So I presented in black and white. Everything of my project, I presented in black and white. I said, this is a project. And there's one, of course, I've seen the document. They said, what is this other document we call it? But I said, well, it's not important.

• 1:00:07Speaker 03

  It's like, this is the 1.7, you don't want it.

• 1:00:12Speaker 03

  And I resigned, I'm playing the game, full on the game. No, no, no, you're just like, this is what you get for a million. And eventually, somebody, I'll ask me, convince me, and it was part of the game, actually. This is all negotiation, colorful negotiation, they call that. Strategic thinking, understanding human nature. Okay? And it's very interesting, and I learned all that in the street. You know, because in the streets, it's basically, you have a fraction of seconds to decide if you hit and run, if you hit, or run fast, or talk. But you don't have one minute to converse if there's a situation there. So one of the biggest skill in business I learned was in the street because of this dangerous environment. Or you make friends, or you run, or you're ready to face a more physical reality.

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  So obviously, there was a compromise there, where it was, we cannot give you 1.7 million dollar now, but let's start with 1 million. And we promise you that over the summer, we'll be able, by exception, by exception, by exception, to get to your budget. So basically, I have my 1.7 million dollar contract. And with all the hard start, we were the star of the summer. You know, everybody was failing, huge failure. We fell too in the first month, but the beauty of it is we were the product that was going in the country. So, you know, in the countryside. So the first month was a disaster. We lost our big top, it was raining, and it was like, it was like conflicts. The artists was fighting, and like, there was a struggle.

• 1:01:38Speaker 03

  Whatever happened at the beginning, we were in the mud up to the throat. But one month after our show was so tight.

• 1:01:45Tim Ferriss?

  You were able to prototype it in the countryside. You're able to be a mess. But it didn't matter because you could refine it.

• 1:01:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, because they asked us, the minister, we want to keep the big city and the stars of big city. They put us on the third row, you know, go, go in the, in the cheap country.

• 1:02:01Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:02Speaker 03

  Where were the piece of bread that was thrown in the country to satisfy, to touch everybody with a celebration thing. But at the end, it became the best thing that arrived for us because when we arrive in the big city, because we did play in the big city, we arrived so ready. We became the success of the summer. Press wise, public wise and government wise and prime minister was there and he said, wait a minute. Those are the type of, because you have to understand, we're right in the middle of the independent movement. And the prime minister at that time was trying to always say, we're not done for a little bread. Coming out from the religious things by then. And we lost everything to the English rest of Canada in terms of the economy.

• 1:02:42Speaker 03

  So this minister was like, believe in the French Canadian creativity, business skill and stuff like. So we became.

• 1:02:50Tim Ferriss?

  The symbol.

• 1:02:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally. And I developed that relationship with that prime minister and he fell in love with that. We were his case or the product and the example of what he meant. So basically, the second year, he like twisted arm of the minister of culture. He said, no, you, if you want that amount, you have to give them. So it was a very important thing. So obviously, year second was more being in the, by yourself in the business. But this is the beginning of this. This is how it came and that's how it take place.

• 1:03:17Tim Ferriss?

  So let me pause for one second. So in that meeting, you have the black and white copy, you have the color copy. So you're playing on human nature and you're doing it really well because of, in part, your experience, learning lessons on the street. Still, when you walked in, I assume that their perspective was that street performing.

• 1:03:39Tim Ferriss?

  Again, lowest on the food chain, right? So what else was there in the presentation that made them change their minds?

• 1:03:48Speaker 03

  Over time, because that was a year in preparation for meetings. We slowly got allied.

• 1:03:55Tim Ferriss?

  Ah, right. You developed some relationships.

• 1:03:57Speaker 03

  Chief financial officer, which is a big man, Monsieur Mathieu, became our defender. Then the press person was in love with you. And it was like, there was so many that Jacques Renaud director of creation that was like pushing, he want our project. So suddenly, the administration, the people at the administration level, not at the decision level, well, middle level decision level, start to recommend us. I said, no, you have to have that type of programming and all this, this is the risk. They became our defender and actually, and we had certain ally, but slowly we convinced them by, I believe what they believe was a great creative project, but also were enthusiastic.

• 1:04:38Speaker 03

  We were a bunch of kids, you have to understand, we were coming from the streets and this was a window and as a wheeler dealer, this is an opportunity, I'm not giving. And they're like, unless the fish is cutting the line, I'm taking that fish out of the pile.

• 1:04:54Speaker 03

  So I was really always in this like war, I was on a mission and I achieve it. And because what I was carrying on my shoulder is the dream of all the community in Montreal or Quebec, that for years was talking about the dream of doing a circus, but never nobody organized it. And I had the credibility of that tribes because I did a street performing festival. So I was able to ally behind me the entire community and I was the, I was giving kind of like the carte blanche to make it happen. And without having to go through this collective process of thing, because you know, I believe in consultation, I believe in collectivity, but at a certain moment, I believe also that everybody in the organization have specific responsibility.

• 1:05:38Speaker 03

  And mine was to make final decision and I got the respect of that. It was not, I had to gain it in the first month because there was a lot of challenge related to that. But at the end, I got the support of the community and the press, favorable critics and the love of the public. So once you have those three things in front of whoever. You have an army.

• 1:05:57Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, you have an armies. And let's talk about maybe influences, philosophies. I read, and maybe this came later, so we could also pause this for later, but that your marketing inspirations were P T Barnum and Walt Disney.

• 1:06:12Speaker 03

  P T Barnum, obviously, people who know and read well, very complex character, but he basically invented modern marketing. Talk good, talk bad, but talk about it was his line. And, you know, this is a guy that was bringing a circus in New York and will make sure that the biggest truck that carry the biggest elephant will have a breakthrough in middle of Times Square.

• 1:06:34Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, breakdown.

• 1:06:35Speaker 03

  And he will have a breakdown. And, and we'll, we'll have the front page of the New York Times the day after that worth hundred thousand dollar. Okay. He was a master of that. And for people, and I understand, even if people think that he was abusing freaks and stuff like that, he had decided, yes, to do business with all the misfit, but he gave them a roof and a, in a community. So that, and the other one is Walt Disney.

• 1:07:00Tim Ferriss?

  Walt Disney.

• 1:07:01Speaker 03

  Oh, my God. And I was like this, I don't know, we don't, we're not on the visual here, but over a napkin, he designed the entire vision of Walt Disney with that things about, this is a famous napkin drawing that he did.

• 1:07:14Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, the, like the parks, the merchandising.

• 1:07:16Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly, exactly. So this guy was so creative and so business. It was a perfect balance of the two sides of the brain of a person. So obviously this was my other influence.

• 1:07:28Tim Ferriss?

  At the time that you get the million dollars with additional, like maybe it adds up over time to whatever it was, 1.5 million from the government, then you do another year. At that point, what was your aspiration?

• 1:07:41Speaker 03

  Well, the other year was almost killing. The other year, we were technically in bankruptcy.

• 1:07:45Tim Ferriss?

  Okay.

• 1:07:45Speaker 03

  What you don't know in between, say, once you have those contracts, well, then you have to go and find a bank.

• 1:07:52Speaker 03

  It's one thing to convince the government, but I'm telling you, it's much more difficult to convince bank.

• 1:07:57Tim Ferriss?

  To help you with your financing.

• 1:07:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, because the government was signing your letter, contract, but the payment process of government is a little longer than just signing a check every month. So we have to go and finance and find the bridge, which was banker. And my God, this was like hilarious. I don't know. I think we did the Avery Banker and a hundred miles around the city we were in. And basically, we're entertainer. They all have a smile, but they all told us no with a smile saying, well, I like your project. But us bank, we need collateral and actually we don't know what we'll do with a trapeze or a tent or a crane truck or a counter of a dog if you fell.

• 1:08:40Speaker 03

  And you're there and listen, this is a contract. Yeah, but so, but we end up and it's very, very funny. We end up in the last financial institution we ever thought we could know of not. That was a little bank that was mainly known to finance strikes. So basically, you know, you're a union that have a lot of money and things when government, but people go on sites. They need a bank that will manage the strike budget.

• 1:09:05Tim Ferriss?

  How does the bank get repaid if they're funding a strike? They take some portion of the settlement?

• 1:09:11Speaker 03

  No, no, no. Basically, the union have a lot of money, but they use those bank. This is where they put their money in. So this is the number one bank in Quebec where the union put their money.

• 1:09:23Tim Ferriss?

  Deposits their money.

• 1:09:24Speaker 03

  Deposits. So most of their members are union workers.

• 1:09:30Tim Ferriss?

  Right.

• 1:09:30Speaker 03

  There's not a business person in business with them. They're all union. This is a union bank.

• 1:09:35Tim Ferriss?

  I get it. Yeah.

• 1:09:36Speaker 03

  That have no clue of financing a business or whatever. And this is where we and this is the one bank that gave us our first bank account with a first credit line or advance of money that the government, they trust. Because that's what they get. They're used to that. They use that union would say, okay, found, give money to those people. We found it. We guarantee the money. So it's in their DNA to advance money.

• 1:10:02Speaker 03

  To people have no money because they have people, big bank account that say we'll pay. Government is the same thing as a union. They have big bank account. Anyway, so, so, so in, in this moment, this we established the first issue was not risky because it was all pretty much guaranteed. And we end up with fifty thousand profit out of the one point seven million, couple of equipment, but a lot of experience. But obviously, it also tell me that we cannot work under the model. We did that because it was a compromise. So we had to go to the market and then we were by ourselves. There was no more grant or no more contract from the government. But we had the prime minister out there that really loved it. And nineteen eighty-five was the international year of the youth.

• 1:10:44Speaker 03

  For young people, youth. So that just need me for me, the one thing like that for me to build all the next second year of Sig de Soleil under the youth banners. And here we go, we build Sig de Soleil and actually, even there, I recognize that we cannot survive with the ambition we had when I build only in our province. We were condemned to export on time.

• 1:11:05Tim Ferriss?

  I see. Just for financial reasons, you would have to.

• 1:11:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, there was not enough market.

• 1:11:09Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:10Speaker 03

  Not, not enough market, you know, the analyze we had on the things was okay, we could do three months, four months. But to run a circus, you have to do nine months, ten months over the year. And because of the climate and the population ratio, we have to export. So our first line of exportation was Ontario, Toronto, and Niagara Falls. Two million visitor, whatever by month or things like that. That's what the government told us. You should there, this is like the biggest tourist destination, Niagara Falls. So the way, we had no money from marketing. You have to understand that we were tied, we had a little subsidies, we had things, but money was always coming at the end. And at the end, what make the success of entertainment is your marketing campaign.

• 1:11:54Speaker 03

  But we were always short on money for, for promotion. So we were betting always on the first night or creating a PD Barnum event in the downtown city or whatever to get the little press. And that year was going well, you know, Toronto was going well, but we were so fragile in terms of our general budget that one city, you know, we could afford a little hiccup, but a drastic failure would create a drastic financial situation. So we're arrive, that's almost the last city of the tour. We're in Niagara Falls, we all prep, you know, for the opening night. There's fully people there, all the politician, the local people.

• 1:12:34Speaker 03

  And then normally, the history tell us that the day after the sales tickets increase and we, we get our end result. Second day, ten tickets. Uh oh. Uh oh. Second show, sixty-five people in the room when I have seventy-five worker. Okay, second day, twenty tickets. So it went on and on. What happened? What's wrong? What happened? And then I have a revolt of the artist, we're not going to play in front of fifteen people. This is where the rule of we will never perform, we made a deal with the artist that we will never perform if the number of public is under the number of artists. And it was a moment, we made a deal like that. But it was catastrophic.

• 1:13:17Speaker 03

  So then it's like, what's going on? And we did all kind of thing by page of things. We tried to react, but nothing was working. And this is where a certain moment is like, what's wrong? Why are we that bad or it doesn't work? To then realize that yes, there's two million people passing in Niagara Falls, but the average of stay of people is forty-five minutes. And the other one who stay long, they're honeymoon or in their art in their room, having their honeymoon moment. So we, we understand that the notion of market study, really. But the result of that is we're technically in bankruptcy. And we saw that. So this specific bank, and this is a true story, you know, obviously we were about three-quarter million dollar in deficit at that time. But to arrive there, we had to survive the end of the tour, pay the salary.

• 1:14:02Speaker 03

  And if we don't do that, that's it. So we have a list of supplier, under five thousand dollar and over five thousand dollar. We have a payroll to deliver every two weeks and we have our minimum OpEx cost and we cannot bill back, you know, so, so you have to pay cash. And then we have no more cash. We're coming back in Montreal. We know we'll get a little more money and we could reduce that and not overcome everything. But we have to survive that because if we cannot bring a little more money to balance a little bit, we're done. And then who's else? We have no money, we would not sell ticket. So the banker, this union bank that we have like, I don't know, a hundred thousand that year or two hundred thousand dollar credit line start to allow without approval of this committee.

• 1:14:47Speaker 03

  First it was every check we're doing, we went over maybe another hundred thousand. Then he said, wait a minute, you know, you're over your line. Yeah. And you know, instead of telling you, yeah, you can't do anymore. He said, please, could you not do check over ten thousand dollar? I said, like, wait, wait a minute. This is the banker telling you. So we do check under ten thousand. Then the second call is please, could you not do check over five thousand? It went down to five hundred dollars. So he was in and the last thing we got of him in, it was I think a twenty five or thirty thousand dollar payroll, the last payroll of the season. We went to this, I said, listen, I know we way over, it's like, and the guy said, look at me and said, I'll lose my head. I have no authorization.

• 1:15:31Speaker 03

  I did things that I was not authorized to do as a director of the bank. He said, if this goes wrong, I'm dead. So, but I said, yeah, but please, you're definitely dead if you don't help me to pay the payroll. And the guy released another twenty five, thirty thousand dollars to pay the payroll. And then we, end of season, and my partner at that time, Danielle, we look at each other. If one, and we have maybe twenty thousand dollar cash that we put outside. And we said to each other, if one supplier come and post an action of claim.

• 1:16:04Tim Ferriss?

  Like a lawsuit or, yeah, claim.

• 1:16:05Speaker 03

  Well, just, just claim, just go into court, then it will trigger all the thing. Then very soon, what we did is I took all the supplier over ten. I said to the bank, first of all, I said to the bank, could I have five, six months? You know, we're, we're doing another tour. We have a contract with the Expenditure Night eighty six in Vancouver. We have good traction, you know, it's like we're popular, but we don't, we're totally, technically we're broke. So I went on with my director of administration and me, we went to every supplier and made a deal, didn't pay none of them, except three, and then we use the cash. We made a deal, postponed check. Eight months in 12 checks. All of them, they all accept.

• 1:16:50Tim Ferriss?

  Why did they accept?

• 1:16:52Speaker 03

  They loved us.

• 1:16:54Tim Ferriss?

  Okay.

• 1:16:54Speaker 03

  They trust us. I think they believe in us. We were upfront, but we had a deal. You know, we had a break of eight, six months minimum, eight months of each of them. We postponed in check with the promise that if the cash was coming first, we will pay them faster. My God, this is angel flying and not only one, this is like 50 angel. And actually, it was about 250 supplier, whatever for 500 to 10,000. The biggest one, I think, was 100,000 and the bank and the bank and the guy you have to go back.

• 1:17:26Tim Ferriss?

  So, all right, so the bank, I have to ask, so this guy is clearly just breaking all the rules. It seems like to give you guys this money. Was he, I want to know a little bit more about that. I mean, was he just pissed off at his boss and he was going to quit in six months anyway?

• 1:17:40Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:17:40Tim Ferriss?

  I'm being a bit of a joker, but why would he? I mean, he's risking his job, I would think, doing this.

• 1:17:45Speaker 03

  Totally, totally, but I guess you have to be there at the origin. We came like, we were a storm of color of happiness and what we're doing were what people never saw in the circus thing. So we were, we were clearly, we were inspiring. We were working hard and we were working on a business plan and we, everybody understand if we bring that things, it could be a huge success. But we were just young entrepreneur that was living everything a young generation have to face when you do business. And suddenly, every wall of those people that normally would put a wall in front of kids at the side. And I didn't interview everybody of it, but I would say for the banker point, because he became a great, great friend. It was just like, I just believed.

• 1:18:30Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:31Speaker 03

  And I was ready, I was ready to go battle with my bank committee, you know, and say we should. And actually, this philosophy was banks should sometimes take risk, business risk and not only protect themselves. And now his principle, we do so much money that a portion of our things should be when we fill it. To take greater risk over and above what the rules of bank rules is. And that's what he was defending. Actually, he was using my case. And actually, this bank that we stayed until I sold to the Soleil. We were super faithful to him. And for him, it became the bank that every young cultural enterprise or young things were to go because they made a model.

• 1:19:11Speaker 03

  All of that and they had been able to service there. And I was just like, again, this was the type of thing. And then eighty six, we went to Vancouver and one year we pay everybody, the bank and stuff like that. It was all done. And then eighty seven, we hit L A. It was a live or die in L A. Opening night, again, it worked. Most died that night.

• 1:19:31Tim Ferriss?

  Wait, did you say you almost died that night?

• 1:19:33Speaker 03

  Well, listen, that day, okay, you have to understand, we're going to Los Angeles Festival, art festival. Super again institutional things. Director of programming, comedy came later, said, well, we're interested, but we have no money to book you. I said, well, I'm like, he says, I'm going from Quebec to Canada, have to put everything on things. And one of my partner was saying, well, let's go to Vermont. What the hell Vermont would tell you if we will be successful or not. We have to hit the big city, New York or or Los Angeles. And we had an opportunity there. So I made a deal. With the Los Angeles Festival, I said, okay, I'll go, I'll take my own risk. But please, could I have the opening night? Okay, of the festival.

• 1:20:14Speaker 03

  And please, could you just at least make sure that in your promotion, your generic promotion? You put us. And I said, third, could you make sure we have good press, the big name of Hollywood? On the opening day. But here we are, we're in Little Tokyo, you know, where they put out in Little Tokyo. Yeah. It's everybody else is in the forum of that, all the big institution. They threw us in the middle of the worst neighborhood there is, Little Tokyo. Okay, downtown L A. In a site that is the middle of side, which basically is the middle. On one side, you have one street gang and the other one, you have the other street gang.

• 1:20:53Speaker 03

  It's one of the biggest crime place things that is like murder all over the day. It's just like, wait a minute. So we end up having to deal with the neighborhood, the as and on, and we have to, you know, we have two choices either way, security thing. So we decide, I've been able to negotiate kind of a truce between the two gangs saying, listen, I'm coming, I come from the streets, I put all my street history behind, I made them laugh, uh, you know, I did the clown of myself. I got their approval. Why? Because I said, your wife, your kids, I'll give them job. Okay, other than selling drugs or killing people, whatever, stealing. My God, two memorable moments, okay? And it was a very interesting, because people tell us, put the twenty foot, no, no, I cannot afford twenty foot things, we'll give job.

• 1:21:39Speaker 03

  So everybody had job, the, the security, parking cars, uh, cleaning, uh, hushers, uh, were selling up dog, whatever, everybody was hired from the two gang there. And actually, I think for a very long time, that was the first time they were not killing each other in the same roof. Anyway, so there's two events that happened that made me laugh. One is about that opening day, which you see people arrive, the big limo, the big Mercedes, the big Rolls Royce, and they give the key to the, the hood. Yeah. This little kid that usually would break in, the window, and the guy was like, going park the place in the worst place you could park a, that type of car. So just that thing was like, wow, wow, wow, wow. Just that for me was an interesting mission accomplished somewhere, to be able to make that connection.

• 1:22:25Speaker 03

  But the most freaky moment was, the opening was in the afternoon, and it was so hot, so hot. And people arrive, and you know Hollywood, they don't arrive on the dot. Fashionably late. Oh my God, as, as we were dying, just that's like, they had people, it was like hundred degree, people were sweating, you know, like. And then, okay, uh, it's not complete, and the organizers were like, wait a minute, this, this star is coming, he's on his way, ta ta. So we decided to send the clowns. To animate the place and you have the mayor, you have like the governor is like all the big shabang is there and there on time.

• 1:23:00Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, so they're just sitting down waiting until you're

• 1:23:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then my clown go because we have to give a little animation pre-show. So I said to my my bunch of clowns, okay, just go, uh, don't do the things of the pre-show, but you have enough tricks to make them laugh. My one belly clown, one of us clown, first thing is coming is coming with a hose, a water hose.

• 1:23:26Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, water hose. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:23:27Speaker 03

  Water hose, open those and start to spray everybody and think I said I'm dying, I'm there dying. I said that I will really die in L A. And then suddenly a fraction of a second, because you could see people reacting in salt. And then you see the first body talk, but there's suddenly a bunch of people all together, give it more. They stand up and it's like, give me more water. Magic moment. Then we did the show.

• 1:23:52Tim Ferriss?

  That could have gone a lot of ways. Yeah, it could have gone.

• 1:23:54Speaker 03

  That's what I'm saying. I thought it was going the other side. So finally do the show standing ovation and the day after is like sales. So we were sold out and this is there was a beginning of never looking back again.

• 1:24:06Tim Ferriss?

  Wow.

• 1:24:07Speaker 03

  We did have bumpy road and stuff like that. But from that moment, there's only one year, the year of a growth crisis in our our growth that we lost a little money. But since then, sick, except the bankruptcy year, we've been doing money, money, never, never been on the deficit year. That's interesting.

• 1:24:24Tim Ferriss?

  Super interesting. So if if you look at L A, so you told a bunch of stories about L A, you're headed to Vancouver, you do really well in Vancouver, you don't want to repeat Niagara Falls, obviously. Now Vancouver is very different from Niagara Falls, but was there any planning or changes that you made to the preparation before going to Vancouver that made a big difference?

• 1:24:45Speaker 03

  No, you have to understand that we start to build wealth, you know, on reputation and we're able to do media there. So we're starting to be much more strategic in our communication. Remember, the first year was very difficult because we have all the money for the operation, but we're very tight. Suddenly we start to generate cash flow and profit. So again, it's supported good campaigns. So we're able to buy a full page in the New York Times and, you know, and hit and create. I would say, attention, we were very famous to every opening night at that time. It was an amazing party that everybody want to be there. And then after that, sales going, and the model was click, click, click, click. And then we expand to show and then the breakthrough of Vegas with Steve Wynn.

• 1:25:29Speaker 03

  It's just like live or the universe and it was presenting us opportunity. And we were, our eyes was enough open to see them and seize them. Because it goes both way. And I believe this is something that's very important for people to understand how we were thinking. It's that somewhere in this space or this dimension, there's something for us and we have to find it. But not only we had find it, but it was coming to us. And this is all the notion of the blue ocean concept versus the red ocean environment. We basically create a blue ocean by, and so we were ahead of our time. We package, we didn't reinvent nothing that the hard form of circus was there. We just put color on something that was very dusty.

• 1:26:15Speaker 03

  And apply a theatrical approach versus a circus show approach. And we R and D and we, once we start to have money, we reinvest for supplying our organic growth. And the same time that we're building relationship and having access to bank money. So we became great business people. And that always related to when, at the beginning of Cirque, when I tried to convince bank, put a place in the board where nobody want to be a board. I said, well, now I'm condemned to play business. And I still had play business and had a fun playing business because it was all, always about the game. And I was like, we come from nothing. So what was the worst situation? Go back to nothing. I couldn't live that. And that's where I come from.

• 1:26:58Speaker 03

  And while I was seeing successful people failing, because they were starting to nurture, to not having tomorrow, they have today and start to nurture fear. And it was like, no. Could you explain that a bit more? I've seen a lot of successful enterprise. There's many things that kill success, right? The first one I've seen is about, once you have success, you get a lot of reward financially, economically. And then you're starting to nurture the fear of not having tomorrow, what you have today.

• 1:27:28Tim Ferriss?

  Right.

• 1:27:29Speaker 03

  And then change your entire way of addressing things. So suddenly, you're not the same person. You don't address your business the same way. You don't address your vision and things because you nurture fear. Okay? So my say or that is like, danger, there is. But please, evaluate danger, don't nurture fear. Because of the moment you nurture fear, there's a good chance that you call your fear and the result of the fear. So that's one thing. And I've seen a lot of entrepreneur shifting their way of being, shifting or transforming what they are and deny where they come from. So at the end, not being themselves. And having a business or success, changing their soul, their way of doing things and become other people,

• 1:28:14Speaker 03

  which again, could affect the result of company. And the other one is more recognizing or realizing that at a certain moment, you're not the person to bring your business or your baby to another level. To be able to step out when you realize that you maximize for different reason, your contribution to the success of your enterprise.

• 1:28:36Tim Ferriss?

  So let's talk about the first part of that just a little bit longer. Because I lived in Silicon Valley for 17 years and I have a lot of friends from that period of my life. Many of them have shifted, I would say, into trying to defend what they have or have experienced more fear because they don't know who to trust, et cetera. I mean, there are many stories about it.

• 1:28:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, trust is a big factor also.

• 1:28:58Tim Ferriss?

  So what else would you say to those people? They're people you care about. You see them maybe changing or feeding the fear. What else would you say to them?

• 1:29:06Speaker 03

  You mentioned something about trust. There's a thin line between wasting time or doubting versus trying to see. The best side of a person and work toward making emerge of a person is best side. And this is a conversation I still have, whatever with my kids, with my ex and the actual business. It's this notion of to which level you trust without compromising the fundamental. And this is very difficult to conclude because I've lived the two spectrum of that life. I got some of the best reward by trusting people and focusing on their beautiful soul versus their dark side. And that has been very rewarding.

• 1:29:48Speaker 03

  Then I provoked the observation that people have sometime when you have give them trust, they will fell in the trap of falling in the greed, ego and power side of life versus the love, respect and trust side of life, which is what we had built our things with. And that brought me a lot of deception to people I really trust that I believe that we had enough experience together and they fell apart. And again, it happened in my own little ethos, but look what's going on in the world. You know, we're driven by this tension between the two side of it. And obviously the people are driven by greed, ego and power. Every morning they wake up and then thinking about how they could be better.

• 1:30:33Speaker 03

  Us, you know, on the side of the love, peace and love and stuff like that. We get it on the face, we look at the sun, we meditate and we're a little more slow to react to that. So I guess we have to be a little more organized.

• 1:30:45Tim Ferriss?

  If I'm understanding you correctly, I mean, it sounds like you're suggesting maybe defaulting to trusting people and expecting sometimes you're going to get punched in the face, but that's just the tax you pay for being optimistic. Or are there other ways that you protect the fundamentals?

• 1:31:01Speaker 03

  No, I would say at the end, there's more success than failure. But the failure are more touching than the win of trust because it's usually attached to deception. So I'm talking more about the deception, you know, you're in business, you win, you lose, you make good decision, you do bad decision. That's part of it. Nobody's perfect. And nobody's perfect in the choice of who you work with, who you trust or not. It's part of doing business. It's more deep than that. What I'm saying is just like, so this is why I guess as much honest conversation at the beginning to establish, not the contract. This is why in my contract, I always not put just the legal part. I always start the first page by. The assumption, the spirit of how a deal is done.

• 1:31:45Speaker 03

  Because my wish that if there's conflict, before going on the legal battle, you look at what the spirit of the deal was. And if you have sensitive people, intelligent people, they will relate to this foundation, version, the word of the legal things.

• 1:32:01Tim Ferriss?

  And that's actually a page in the document that has the contract.

• 1:32:05Speaker 03

  It's a page in the contract. It's a page in the contract. Where the first page is not about legal stuff. It's about the philosophy, the spirit of why we're doing the dream. What had brought us to that deal? What is the spirit of the deal? Okay, I made a mistakes to forget that sometime. And this was the most chaotic things because I'm telling you is like, if you're not attached to the spirit and it's just legal, we're living in a country, you know, not America, especially in the States, hit and me will make me happy, make a mistakes and not clear. It's much more difficult for a person to deny the spirit if it's been written down. It will deny to say, it's not what I say. Because when you try to bring the spirit in an oral conversation,

• 1:32:50Speaker 03

  they will always find a way to justify that it's not what they say.

• 1:32:53Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's smart.

• 1:32:53Speaker 03

  To write the thing, it's very difficult for them. Then it's betrayal. You understand? Then you know it's a betrayal, it's not a misunderstanding.

• 1:33:03Tim Ferriss?

  Is that first page, I'm very interested in this. Is it almost just like regular text, like it's paragraphs or is it bullets?

• 1:33:10Speaker 03

  It's understanding that we desire to conquer a planet, march. We will do everything to, you know, it's like very poetic sometime, very philosophic. It's very mission oriented. You know, we all do document in business, a mission and vision and so. Why are we not putting those principle, right? In the contract when two parties do things because this become a new mission, this is build on new value. And I think this is, I believe, an antidote against persecution or a legal process.

• 1:33:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's very smart.

• 1:33:47Speaker 03

  Well, I've not been that smart all the time because I'm in some case that I forgot to put it or my family office, I forgot to put it. But now, I'm telling you, this will be from now on, even with experience, I did forget to put it because I guess I even trusted more that I believe that I should not put it in it. And that became the biggest betrayal in business I ever did. So now, it's there forever.

• 1:34:13Tim Ferriss?

  See, you mentioned a name earlier that I'd love to hear you say more about. So I think you mentioned Steve Wynn. So how does Steve Wynn fit into this story?

• 1:34:21Speaker 03

  Game changer. Steve Wynn, game changer for me. When I was starting to see the Soleil, I always found myself like going to see as much show as possible. So rather than being a circus, I would go visit, see artists, and I would always make a stop in Vegas to see the entertainment. And then suddenly Mirage arrived there and the Zig Finn and Roy show was there. And it's not the entire show. The first 20 minute, it was like mind blowing. I said, wow. I was so inspiring and impactful for me because I realize and make me realize that, wait a minute, Vegas is as this baby foot of modern entertainment. You know, you have New York on one side, London

• 1:35:03Speaker 03

  on the other side. But Vegas is still cheesy. They have big production, but still not deep in the, what we call the theatrical, the artistic. It's very flamboyant. It's big thing. And they put a lot of money. You have a volcano, you have like showers or whatever, 100 dancers, you have the spectacular. But when you analyze that in the artistic quality things, it's level one. And then with this 20 minutes, I say, wait a minute, I look around, it's one, two, three, four, five, six, kids, you know, they don't have big show or this big show has been there. So I suddenly realized, I said, wait a minute, this city.

• 1:35:42Speaker 03

  Have the potential of becoming the third biggest entertainment city in the world after New York or with New York and London. And this is where I started to put a lot of focus. Then we had, Caesars was the first one to approach us from a vice president entertainment part, Caesars location. So we engaged in the development of the deal, which I had that time to put three hundred thousand dollars, they put three hundred thousand dollars. And we developed a concept of show, it's called Timeless Kiss. But Timeless Kiss is the first show, which is a, but Myster, okay? Myster, I told you, Alan. But we went to a level, presented the board, Henry Glock, Terry Lanning, and Century City

• 1:36:22Speaker 03

  in Los Angeles, all those very aged persons with a couple of young executives. And we pitched and we believe at that moment that we did a great pitch, we were confident in the show. And actually, the deal with them was far away from the deal I made in the future with Steve Wynn. So I'm back in Montreal, waiting the answer, received a phone call, I was on my treadmill. And this vice president said, well, sorry, I have a bad news. I said, what? Said, well, the board think that your show is too esoteric for Las Vegas. Esoteric was the word, to explain me why they're not go ahead with the deal. I raged. I don't think ever in my life I had done so many hours of stepmaster in my life in

• 1:37:05Speaker 03

  a row, raging, streaming for three hours. And then I was like, wait a minute. And that was three hundred thousand dollar investment at that moment. We're talking nineteen ninety, ninety-one, beginning of a success.

• 1:37:17Tim Ferriss?

  And that was into the concept development?

• 1:37:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, yes, yes. We were trying to make a deal with one of the casino to put our product there. Then that failed. So we went around, next one, next one is the Hilton, where Elvis Presley was there. At that time, it was like a Broadway show was there. Same story, pitch, pitch, pitch, only, oh, it's too complex. And then that one I didn't rage because having received that answer once, I was expecting. And then like a week after, I received a message, call Steve Wynn, called you, called back. So I called back, Monsieur La Laliberté, it's like, he's, it's very more radio voice than me, said, I heard you were flirting with my competitors.

• 1:38:03Speaker 03

  Have you made any deal with my competition?

• 1:38:07Speaker 03

  I said, "No, why?" I said, "Why didn't you come see me?" And I said, "Well, you have the best show in town." I didn't even think you'll be interested in my brother. You have the best show in town. Well, he said, "I would like to have conversation." "I think I have some things that we could bring." "Sir Dussel, eh?" I said, "Have you seen Sir Dussel?" "Yeah, I've seen him in Santa Monica in 1987." "Oh, I said, "We have a new show. It's called "The Well Experience." "Have you seen it?" "No." "I want you to see it." "Said, "Where are you?" "Said, "Well, I'm in Toronto now." "But I said, "Before we converge, I want you to see what I am about now." "Okay, I don't know at that moment that he has his eye problem and vision problem." "So, he said, "I'll be there Friday with my CEO and one or two board members."

• 1:38:52Speaker 03

  "So, he flow in, perceive in, look at things." "And then I see the guy." "We go into mission." "He said, "I like it." "So, I would like to bring this show behind the Mirage and we could set up there." "He turned around." "He said, "Deal." "All right, I can have a deal." "And he presented him." "I said, "Well, we have to negotiate." "He said, "This guy will make sure that you will have a good deal and I will have a good deal "and we'll make it happen." "I need to be activated very fast." "She again, they after make a deal." "They bought all the new equipment, build the thing behind the Mirage." "And I didn't know at that time that for him, you have something else. "He have the Treasure Island, what is mine, and actually you want to lock me down."

• 1:39:35Speaker 03

  "He did that contract just to lock me down so I cannot talk to others." "Because in two years after, he was building this thing and it costs us money." "And on the top of that, opening night, my God." "Again, all the big shebang of Vegas and Steven have very powerful and influential friends "in the political things, the business side. "He have his bankers there." "And opening night, one artist, animation again." "But this one could have been turned very bad." "He did that 2,000 time." "He's sliding on a rope from the tower over the head of people on the stage." "We're about to start the show." "I'm seeing from the side of my life, the artist fell on the people." Oh, God.

• 1:40:22Speaker 03

  I think I experienced what it means and what is a temperature and a feeling to be in a tomb. The sound, the sound of the big top, the CEO, Bobby Ball and see the same thing and Steve wouldn't, don't say what, what, what's going on, what's going on? And CEO said, well, there's an artist who fell on the end and he knew that we fell. I think it was a banker, one of the major bankers, said, just fill another thing.

• 1:40:47Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, no.

• 1:40:49Speaker 03

  And Steve said, what? And dead silence. So, thank God, it was just kind of like hurt on the shoulder. He couldn't break his neck, basically one inches on the top to break the neck. And that was it for me. It was done.

• 1:41:04Tim Ferriss?

  Terrifying.

• 1:41:05Speaker 03

  So, we go to show and, you know, it was a hard show to start a show and build up success. So, the reaction at the end was good, but it was not the terrific, you know, it was not overwhelming. It was like, everybody was like, uh, is he okay? And, uh, so we overcome that moment that could have been crucial. And then, uh, two, three months after, he said, the real reason why I, I want to lock you down is because I'm doing Treasure Island and I want you to do the main show of this, uh, thing. So, the show gave us and became the timeless kiss that we missed there. We tried to explain our creative process, which we need, you know, you give us a theater, we'll design it for a show, but we need dust free and we need time to rehearsal.

• 1:41:47Speaker 03

  And with clowns, we need the audience to test things and stuff like, so theoretically you get everything. First dress rehearsal, another magic moment with Steven. Uh, my clown, the same Benny, by the way, uh, the same Benny, that is my clown. He want to do a satiric clown number.

• 1:42:06Tim Ferriss?

  The fire hose, right, the water hose.

• 1:42:08Speaker 03

  The same one who done that, still believe he's one of the best guys in the world, but he want to do an original clown act, which is about a satiric number of boxing in Las Vegas. And his game is to set up kind of boxing things, theatrical one. Invite an audience member to have a boxing fight that end up to throw each other tarts. Cream tarts. Okay. But but the test people are only the worker of the casino plus all the executive. Because Steve Win asks all these topics, you go, go check it out. First, we don't even call that a dress rehearsal. We call that a lion den. Meaning it's occasion for lion. There's the risk we're taking there and we just want a little bit. Normally we invite friends and family, small crowd.

• 1:42:53Speaker 03

  The room is like probably fifty percent of the executive with the attire right there. And the number go wrong. Benny panic, the clown panic, and he started to throw all the tart on the audience. So of course I receive a call from Steve Win that's doing ski and Aspen say, well, I will not use the word. Happen. What are you doing? What is it to throw tarts to people in the room in the new theater? Like I said, Steve, it's like this was the lion dance and we're testing it. Get wrong and stuff like that. The clown panic will correct that. Don't worry, that's part of the process. And I said, and he said, there's no F way. You can you can say it on my show.

• 1:43:38Speaker 03

  No, I'm just okay because with all those things. There's no fucking way. Exactly. Well, I didn't say it. You said it. Yeah. I just tried to play with the situation. So he said, listen, I'm flying tomorrow. I want a private view of the show. Okay. And there's no way you will open the show. And I will tell you what's work, what doesn't work. I have the experience of that in Las Vegas and where they're everybody's freaking out. So I'm cranking because it's like we took months to explain him this process. And now he's like treading me to not open the show or whatever, you know, in the Steve Win way. So we arrive, I'm not sitting with him, I'm sitting with Bobby Baldwin, the CEO,

• 1:44:21Speaker 03

  because he's my friend and that's the one I made the deal. Franco Dragone and Gilles Saint Croix, the director and the director of creation with Steve. And you could see Steve and you know, those shows that have so much mechanic on it, you cannot put the artist on risk. So you don't run the show at real speed. You run the show in a safe way. So you mark the step and then you know, it's a process. So I'm obliged to run a show that's supposed to give him the information what the show is about. But instead of being a hundred miles an hour, it's running at seventy five. So obviously you don't see the beauty of the race car, you know, it's like, it's like, it is just safety, safety, safety. You mark, you take a client lining. There's a light could affect an acrobat, you know, there's all this hundreds of detail.

• 1:45:04Speaker 03

  So obviously, everything is slowed down. So at the end of the show, stand up, we have a meeting with him. And he's around the table, you look at the, he talked to us like, "What the fuck is this show?" He says, "Look and feel like a fucking German opera."

• 1:45:26Speaker 03

  Franco Dragone, the director, turn around and say, "Thank you, Steve. This is the biggest compliment you can ever told me about the show I created."

• 1:45:36Speaker 03

  "Swear on, this is true, sorry." I see this, it's like, "What?" "You're just here, I just tell you the show is a piece of crap? And you're telling me thank you by telling you that?" And yeah, Franco explains, he's like, "Do you know, German opera is very important in the world of opera institution." And Steve is totally disavowed. And then he starts to say, "I like that, I don't like that, I want you to change that." And then I intervene, "No, Steve." I said, "I explain you, explain you the things, we're not done yet with the show. This will be a great show, trust me. And by the way, I have the last word contractually about what will be the show or not."

• 1:46:18Speaker 03

  And his reaction, "Yeah, but I control the room and if I decide nobody goes in, fair for you, then you'll be in penalty. Because if I deliver a show and I have the right, if you don't want to let people in, it's your problem. I would have done my job." And then he turned rage because he said, "You have to understand, Steve Wynn, always that control hundred percent of his narrative." Everybody's at his foot. Here's a little kid from Quebec, like standing in front of him and saying, no. When people tell you yes, three times in a row to make sure you understand, no, yes. And then he turned and bobby bobby, CEO said, what the fuck is that contract? I don't have the last word. And it's how about Steve, you asked me to make a deal with them and that was a break deal. You'd ask me to make sure that it will be with us. I did it. That was a condition and it was a break deal. I signed it.

• 1:47:04Speaker 03

  To the credit of Seal. To the credit of Seal. At the moment, a CEO said, this is contractually binding. Steve said, okay, then. I will have to trust you. I hope you're right. And you will prove me wrong. But here it is. I will trust you. See you at opening night.

• 1:47:22Tim Ferriss?

  Just like that?

• 1:47:23Speaker 03

  Just like that. Opening night. Day after sold out, sold out, sold out. We were the hit new show. Rock Vegas. Then after that, there was an old show and you know the story. It's like bang, bang, bang. There's a certain point that after you sold to MGM. There's a moment of the pinnacle of things. We were responsible of six percent of about forty million visitor of primary reason why people were coming Vegas. And we were controlling almost thirty nine percent of every entertainment tickets in Las Vegas.

• 1:47:55Tim Ferriss?

  Wow.

• 1:47:56Speaker 03

  So we did contribute a little bit. Now Vegas is a total red ocean, but we arrived, create a blue ocean and just like squeeze it with beautiful show. And they were giving us all the money we want to create the most amazing show. And O is an example of it. This is like masterpiece. It's like, that's the perfect match with somebody who believe in you, have a lot of money. And a team that arrive at creative maturity to do his masterpiece.

• 1:48:21Tim Ferriss?

  So I'll just mention for people, Blue Ocean, Blue Ocean Strategy, also a great book worth reading that gets more into this concept, but.

• 1:48:28Speaker 03

  Which was a test case. Sick story is part of a case study on it. And it's very interesting and the people who will read it, it really make you understand how addressing a red ocean by creating a blue ocean. This could totally be a game changer for an enterprise and the way of thinking about your envisioning strategy.

• 1:48:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, total game changer. And I would love to ask you more about Steve Wynn. We might come back to it, but I know we're coming up on two hours, so I want to be respectful of your time. But let me ask you this question, which is, I would love to get your perspective on maybe what people miss about Cirque du Soleil and why it became successful. Because I imagine there are many people listening to this who will wonder, and I've wondered this too, why didn't someone else do this?

• 1:49:11Speaker 03

  Well, we were a pioneer, but after the success, like any good success, you have impact. Creative mind with production company. Some will have the easy reaction, a lazy reaction of trying to copy you. Very bad for them, very bad for the business, very bad for my brand. Why? Because they will play inspired by, they will call that a sick la leon, sick of that, to try to grab the flavor and attract them by trying to sell that they're at the same level, right? Disaster. And this, for me, is lazy people to do that and non-creative people. There's some of that and you have to deal with that. Some

• 1:49:54Speaker 03

  try, but usually they don't last long, but it does affect your credibility for a period of time. But people are not stupid. They will understand what is the real recipe versus the fake one, right? We're the original. Then there's the other one that you inspire, okay? Young artists. And I had a lot, I was responsible with a lot of new emergent entertainment company that inspired themselves about what we did and became the second generation. You know, it's like in art, you have the first generation, you have the second generation, and you have the other one that, or we call the derivative, derivative of the bad one, you know, that sometimes make money out of things, but they're just copying and they

• 1:50:36Speaker 03

  have no contribution to the evolution of the art. But today, we have nurtured, Cirque du Soleil had nurtured dozen of second generation of artists and things. And it's not necessarily always about circus. I'm Mia Wolf, for example. I don't know if you know Mia Wolf?

• 1:50:52Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:52Speaker 03

  So, for example, Mia Wolf, without saying they're second generation, but they are, because I know the founder of some of them. And, you know, obviously, we had a huge impact in inspiring cultural or artistic entrepreneur to use us as inspiration. And Mia Wolf, some of them, I said, well, listen, you've been very important in inspiring us. And many are there like that. And when you see This, or even in circus, there's been little troupes, like El Wa, all like babies of Sig de Soleil, that had defined their own style, that had inspired and contribute to the elevation of the art of circus. And that's beautiful. And there's more of that, there's failure. And actually, it's very rewarding

• 1:51:37Speaker 03

  to see that type of impact you could have on the next generation. So, yes, it's people who try, but the clever one or the one who don't try to copy will try to make their own signature.

• 1:51:48Tim Ferriss?

  So, Guy, I want to be respectful of time. Do you want to keep going for like 10, 15 minutes?

• 1:51:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:55Tim Ferriss?

  Okay.

• 1:51:55Speaker 03

  I would like to talk about the community, you know, which is, again, the beautiful 40 years that I live with amazing, colorful people that come from the same environment of work, which is funny. Then, obviously, I sold Sig de Soleil 2015. Many things happened, another story to tell. And I'm jumping to the conclusion where went from family office, different portfolio, explore a lot of things. I don't want to go with details. Rough moment, COVID, having to, you know, I was about to activate new content, new project, and COVID killed it all, lost my investors

• 1:52:34Speaker 03

  and stuff like, you know, like, starting to lose, not every year. Now it's like, at least a couple of months, friends that are dying, you know, make me realize that, wait a minute, I'm not saying clock is ticking, but let's say time pass fast and it does have impact. And I realized that what became important, we lost my parents, and then suddenly it was about, wait a minute, one of my dream, because I had some dream in life, but the recent dream was about, hey, I would love to go back with all my group of people or friends, invite them on the island, Hawaii or my, whatever, and spend a couple of days or a night just with a good bottle of wine and just listen what their life was about, just to see the people you love, what they evolved,

• 1:53:19Speaker 03

  because a lot of them, I always kept contact with them, but some I've not seen for 20 years, and we're still in contact, we just would love to hug ourselves and have a good conversation again. So, it changed the last couple of years really, and especially from last year. About fourteen months ago, I really went through this period of, whoa, what are my priority? First, family office, type of money management, not my type of... I'm an entrepreneur, okay? I need action. I don't have the patience of most of the things. One of my investment was the biggest betrayal of my life. I said, wait a minute. I want to be with my friend, I want to be with my loved one, I want to be with my tribe, I want to be with my family.

• 1:54:03Speaker 03

  So it shifted, made me the decision that I said, I want to do shows again. So the last year about, since last September, yeah, about a year, I've been gearing up and with developing concept and with some of it with my old friends that we told ourselves, let's do something again. And a bunch of young, new kids, young people that have the fire, the drive, and that invite to play with us and make sure with all my elders that we use this opportunity of creating thing and transfer the knowledge of what we have or wisdom, perform them and give them and work with them so they could carry on a nice entertainment environment. And at the end, what does it mean?

• 1:54:48Speaker 03

  What is the conclusion of that is like, you know, in life, you could have all the success you want, you could have all that, but what is the most important? Your family, your friends, your tribe, the people that live a life with. And the comfort of that is so much important than anything else after. Which at the end, if you realize that, and for me, this exercise of starting up a new entertainment company with new show that I cannot disclose today, but I believe they're pretty ass kicker also there. We have, first of all, we have a lot of fun. We're laughing our ass out every morning that we're writing and creating our things. So we'll live or die from the public reaction, but amongst the team here, we're like cranking up and we have a lot of joys. But at the end, what all this will permit me is somewhere,

• 1:55:33Speaker 03

  hopefully to this new adventure engage in, which I didn't have to, is maybe end up having achieved to one of my goal at the end, which is, I just mentioned it before, being a good ancestor. And this is all the desire of giving back as much as I could in the time left. And I hope there's another thirty years, whatever. My goal is at least a hundred, hundred years. But I was fed by so much love, so much joy, so much opportunity that... What I got was bigger than what one individual have. So I'm trying to find a way that how could I give back of all that through? What I know best is creating shows and creating entertainment companies. So this is where I am.

• 1:56:14Speaker 03

  We talked about the tome one, there's a tome two, and I'm starting to engage tome three, basically.

• 1:56:21Tim Ferriss?

  Very different and also very interconnected chapters, it would seem. And how much of the getting back to performing or shows is the performing in the shows? The content versus having a reason or an excuse to get together with your old friends and the performers?

• 1:56:39Speaker 03

  Well, there's different factor on that. One is I I realize I didn't do my epilogue. You know, I left, I'm playing a call, I visit things, I had a bad result, things for X reason. Again, another conversation. But what is my epilogue in all this amazing creative production adventure? And what I'm working now is my epilogue. The second thing is a challenge. It's funny, as much I'm very active sometimes, I have the impression that I could become very lazy when comfort is there. So I always perform the best when I'm on the cliff. And it's true, it's true.

• 1:57:17Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:17Speaker 03

  And knowing that if I decide to come back on that, and I'm risking a lot, I cannot do what I did at Cirque du Soleil. I have to find different way. I have to address every angle of the artistic experience I'm about to do with a different look at it. And this is intellectually so, so challenging and interesting. So I'm having a very interesting brain activities with all those hamsters that keep rolling. The hamsters are stiffly awake in this brain.

• 1:57:45Tim Ferriss?

  Alive and well, dancing on the cliff. Well, Guy, is there anything else you'd like to say, any requests of my audience? Or anything else that you'd like to add before we close this first round?

• 1:57:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, but if I open my mouth again, it will be $5 by word that I say from now on.

• 1:58:05Speaker 03

  This is your king.

• 1:58:06Tim Ferriss?

  No problem, no problem. Well, this has been incredibly fun. I'm glad that this finally came together and I really appreciate you taking the time and sharing everything that you've shared. And hopefully we'll get a chance to do a round two.

• 1:58:21Speaker 03

  To have a good bottle of wine together.

• 1:58:22Tim Ferriss?

  Have a good bottle of wine, absolutely.

• 1:58:25Speaker 03

  Where are you based?

• 1:58:26Tim Ferriss?

  I'm based in Austin, Texas.

• 1:58:28Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:58:29Tim Ferriss?

  But I travel a lot, so I'm on both coasts. I'm international frequently, so I'm sure there's an opportunity where we can make an opportunity.

• 1:58:37Speaker 03

  Well, I spend a lot of time in Vegas, especially by activating certain things. I will have, let's make sure we don't lose contact. I would definitely either a good bottle of sake over a good Japanese meal or a good bottle of wine, the red wine, burger and eate over a good meal.

• 1:58:52Tim Ferriss?

  Sounds perfect and really appreciate you taking all the time. And to everybody listening, we will link to everything in the show notes and more at tim.blog/podcast. And as always, be a little bit kinder than is necessary, both to others and to yourself. Until next time, thanks for tuning in. Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just one more thing before you take off and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things

• 1:59:37Tim Ferriss?

  I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog/friday, type that into your browser, tim.blog/friday, drop in your email and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening.

• 2:00:20Tim Ferriss?

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• 2:01:02Tim Ferriss?

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• 2:01:45Tim Ferriss?

  So go to eightsleep.com/tim, spelled out, eightsleep.com/tim, and save $250 on the Pod Cover by Eight Sleep this winter. Eight Sleep currently ships within the US, Canada, the UK, select countries in the EU and Australia. This episode is brought to you by Shopify, one of my absolute favorite companies and they make some of my favorite products. Shopify is the commerce platform revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide and I've known the team since 2008 or 2009. But prior to that, I wish I had personally had Shopify in the early 2000s when I was running my own e-commerce business. I tell that story in the Four Hour Work Week, but the tools then were absolutely atrocious and I could only dream of a platform like Shopify.

• 2:02:30Tim Ferriss?

  In fact, it was you guys, my dear readers, who introduced me to Shopify when I polled all of you about best e-commerce platforms around 2009, and they've only become better and better since. Whether you're a garage entrepreneur or getting ready for your IPO, Shopify is the only tool you need to start, run, and grow your business without the struggle. Shopify puts you in control of every sales channel. Doesn't matter if you're selling satin sheets from Shopify's in-person POS system or offering organic olive oil on Shopify's all-in-one e-commerce platform. However you interact with your customers, you're covered. And once you've reached your audience, Shopify has the internet's best converting checkout to help you turn browsers into buyers. Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States.

• 2:03:14Tim Ferriss?

  And Shopify is truly a global force as the e-commerce solution behind Allbirds, Rothy's, Brooklinen, and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across more than 170 countries. Plus, Shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way if you have questions. This is possibility powered by Shopify. So check it out. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify. That's S-H-O-P-I-F-Y. Shopify.com/Tim. Go to Shopify.com/Tim to take your business to the next level today. One more time, all lowercase, Shopify.com/Tim.