One Battle After Another And What's Making Us Happy

One Battle After Another is an action-thriller starring Leonardo DiCaprio, Teyana Taylor and Sean Penn. DiCaprio plays a washed up ex-revolutionary searching for his missing daughter while raging against the machine. In this case, the machine is unabashedly racist, xenophobic, and corrupt. Directed by Paul Thomas Anderson, the ensemble also includes Regina Hall and Benicio del Toro. Follow Pop Culture Happy Hour on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/nprpopculture https://letterboxd.com/nprpopculture/ To access bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening for Pop Culture Happy Hour, subscribe to Pop Culture Happy Hour+ at plus.npr.org/happy. http://plus.npr.org/happy See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This message comes from Capella University. That spark you feel, that's your drive for more. Capella University's FlexPath learning format lets you earn your degree at your pace without putting life on pause. Learn more at capella.edu.

• 0:19Aisha Harris?

  Aside from great performances, you never quite know what you're going to get with a new Paul Thomas Anderson movie. Sometimes it's a twisted romance, or a loose coming of age tale, or even a sprawling epic with biblical implications. His latest feature is One Battle After Another, and this time, he's in action thriller mode. Once again, he's in fine form.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  Somehow, this is Anderson's first time working with Leonardo DiCaprio, who's playing a stoned-out dad searching for his missing daughter. The character does not have a very particular set of skills, but he does have a history of raging against the machine. And in this case, the machine is unabashedly racist, xenophobic, and corrupt. I'm Glen Weldon.

• 0:57Aisha Harris?

  And I'm Aisha Harris. And today, we're talking about One Battle After Another on Pop Quater Happy Hour from NPR. Joining us today is freelance film critic and programmer Monica Castillo. Welcome back, Monica.

• 1:09Speaker 03

  So glad to be back for this one.

• 1:10Aisha Harris?

  Lovely to have you. So One Battle After Another stars Leonardo DiCaprio as Bob, a washed-up ex-revolutionary living quietly with his teen daughter, Willa. She's played by Chase Infiniti. One day, his past comes back to haunt him. Colonel Lockjaw, that is his actual name, he is the officer who effectively dismantled Bob's crew of militant activists some 16 years earlier, and he's tracked them down and is after Willa now. He's played by a very colorful and very sinister Sean Penn. Bob seeks help from what's left of his old group, the French 75. He's also aided by Willa's karate instructor, Sergio, played by Benicio del Toro. And the ensemble also includes Tiana Taylor as Perfidia Beverly Hills. Again, these names. Chefs kiss.

• 1:55Aisha Harris?

  She's playing Bob's love and Willa's mom. One Battle After Another is in theaters now. And Glenn, I'm going to start with you. How did we feel about One Battle After Another?

• 2:06Speaker 02

  We loved it. I mean, this movie is really clear-eyed, and immediate, and urgent, and it's ridiculing an ideology that is, as they say in the news right now, which is white supremacy. And I'm not particularly proud of this, but I know that if this movie had been made even as recently as last year, if it had come out then, I know me, I'd be sitting here on this podcast, bloviating about fictional villains. I'd be like, I don't know, guys, you make your villain a white supremacist. That's like making your villain kill puppies or club baby seals. It's so cartoonishly evil. It's so unbelievably evil. It's like you don't have to put in the work as a filmmaker to make a layered characterization because you can count on the fact that literally everyone in your audience is going to agree that they're horrible people.

• 2:48Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  That's why, frankly, back when the ending of Breaking Bad came out, I was, it didn't hit as hard as it could have because it's all about, this show's all about moral gray area, a good man becoming a monster. But then at the very end, they go, oh, you know what's worse than a monster is literal Nazis.

• 3:02Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  We can all agree.

• 3:03Aisha Harris?

  You're Nazis.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  Literal Nazis. It felt like a cop out. This doesn't because white supremacy isn't a radical fringe notion. It's back in the public square. It's public policy. And that's ridiculous. And that needs to get called out and ridiculed. And that's what this movie is doing. And not for nothing, having a great time doing it. I mean, given the subject matter, this should really come off as kind of strident and polemical, but it really doesn't. It's fun in every way that Eddington isn't.

• 3:29Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  I had a great time at this.

• 3:32Aisha Harris?

  Yeah. Sean Penn is sort of the locus for this racist, xenophobic, all of these things.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's the face.

• 3:38Aisha Harris?

  He is hamming it up. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way. He seems to be having maybe too good of a time playing this character.

• 3:45Speaker 03

  He's been waiting his whole life to play this kind of villain.

• 3:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  He's so good at it. So scary. I didn't recognize him at first, and then I realized who it was. And I'm like,

• 3:53Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, neither did I.

• 3:54Speaker 03

  Oh, God. Oh, my God. I also really loved it. I was super on board with it.

• 3:59Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 3:59Speaker 03

  You know, I think we sometimes, we take Paul Thomas Anderson for granted because of course he's such a great filmmaker. Of course, he's going to give us something good. And then we come to this movie, and not only does he push himself and really try different things, both visually and narratively, it just feels like everything works together so precisely, very entertaining, completely riveted. I can't believe that he just like grabbed onto that third rail of like, let's talk about politics right now and made an exciting thriller out of it.

• 4:28Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 4:28Speaker 03

  I mean, one of the best sequences in this movie is a car chase that I really want to single out. I got to see this in IMAX, and I felt like I'd never seen a car chase that good before.

• 4:39Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 4:39Speaker 03

  I mean, it was eye-poppingly beautiful. So shout out to. Anderson and his cinematographer, Michael Baumann, who he worked with on Licorice Pizza. So they're back together again and it is just incredible, just so inspiring. I also went back and visited some of Anderson's previous works and getting to see like little threads of things throughout his career that he's bringing back for one battle after another. There's a beautiful, it's just a little scene of just like a camera on top of a car door that's being closed at the same time, but it just feels so exciting.

• 5:11Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 5:11Speaker 03

  And it's borrowed from Punch Drunk Love, you know, the kinds of painterly compositions that he uses for The Master is also here on display. He's just so good at what he does and he comes out swinging. I mean, it is a masterclass, firing it all on cylinders. I can't say enough great things about this movie. I think we're going to be talking about this one for a while.

• 5:30Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, I love that you talked about the car chase scene because it really is. I mean, there's not really, you can't really give away a car chase scene, but like I do find it fascinating that it takes place in the desert and it's the hillyest desert I have ever seen. And I've driven through a lot of desert. A lot of it is flat, or if you're driving through it, it's very slow ascent. It kind of felt like French Connection, but in the desert because there's just like so many hills. It's like, what is happening here? But it's so well paced and so well choreographed. This movie comes in at almost three hours and I did not feel those almost three hours.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  Not at all.

• 6:05Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 6:05Aisha Harris?

  I agree with so much of what you both have said. I have a couple of small nits and they keep this from being a great movie for me, from a very good, but I think that Leonardo DiCaprio, we've kind of seen him play a sort of character like this in like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, I feel, at least in the second half of this movie, you know, when he is very, just kind of checked out and washed up, as we've said. But it's fun, it's funny. There's a whole sequence where he is trying to charge his phone while also trying to remember a code that he got 16 years earlier to identify himself in order to get help from the friend 75.

• 6:49Speaker 04

  What time is it? Ah. You know, I don't, I don't, I don't remember that part. All right, let's just not nitpick over the password stuff. Look, this is Bob Ferguson, all right? You just called my house. Let's, let's, let's cut the, I need the rendezvous point.

• 7:03Speaker 05

  What time is it?

• 7:04Aisha Harris?

  The secret goes on for a very long time, but it is great. It's so well sustained. And you have Benicio del Toro playing with it and just being cool. That's what Benicio del Toro is really good at. Yes. I just found this really, really fun. I do want to kind of talk about the way this movie does incorporate the more topical and very of the moment issues because at the center and what I think most of Anderson's focus is on like this relationship between Willa and Bob, father and daughter, and then of course Colonel Lockjaw and this kind of triangular thing. But then it opens with the Front 75, this radical group infiltrating and freeing detained immigrants. And we see that happen again later on.

• 7:47Aisha Harris?

  We see what's happening and the way that people have to feel like they're forced into hiding. This movie has a lot of tunnels and a lot of like walking to places, both sinister, but also liberating. I kind of want to pull a little bit more on that and how you feel Anderson weaves those in and sometimes takes a backseat, I think. And I wonder how that worked for you. I'm curious.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  Well, what occurred to me is that this movie's understanding of counterculture, radicalism is more layered than it appears on the surface because DiCaprio was so, he's doing so much that he kind of steals focus. But if you grew up any time after the 60s, your understanding of what the 60s counterculture was, was if you think about it, it was dictated entirely to you by the culture that the counterculture was trying to counter, right? So history is written by the winners and 60s radicals and revolutionaries have been portrayed in mainstream culture forever as hippies, burnouts, losers, you know, dismissable. So DiCaprio represents that archetype. Now, it's not 60s radical culture here, it's.

• 8:48Aisha Harris?

  More contemporary.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:49Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  But his character is a loser. Even when his group experiences a win, as it does in those opening scenes you mentioned, he's still nervous, he's needy, he's a raw nerve. That's my favorite DiCaprio. You mentioned Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. We all. See a bit of it in Wolf of Wall Street, when he's feckless, he's insecure. You tell me if you think this is a stretch. I think he's the audience surrogate.

• 9:08Aisha Harris?

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  When we catch up to him 16 years later, he's gone complacent with weed and booze and TV and watching the Battle of Algiers. And the film's world is very specific. It doesn't seem to be at first, but it is because the world he worked to prevent has come to pass. And it literally has. In the world of the movie, which is maybe the most Pinchon-esque little filigree bit that's kind of staying in the film, because it's a very loose adaptation on the Thomas Pynchon novel Vinland. Because it's not white supremacy writ large as a cultural reality. There is this very specific white supremacist secret society. It's strongly implied that it actually runs a damn country. And so, you know, that's when you kind of recalibrate the Leonardo DiCaprio character because he's not paranoid. Because people are actually out to get him.

• 9:49Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  So he's not paranoid, he's just perceptive. And I think if people think of that secret society as a cop out, which I would have even a year ago, I mean, in drama, in fiction, you need to particularize and localize what you're fighting against. 250 years of systemic oppression needs a face. Right. A face you can punch. And this film, smartly in the end, I think, this film is filled with very punchable faces that I wanted to see punched.

• 10:12Aisha Harris?

  Yes, including Tony Goldwyn, AKA Fitz from Scandal.

• 10:16Speaker 03

  Oh, yes. Surprise, surprise.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:18Speaker 03

  I also can relate to, you know, the need or like the sort of like malaise that sets in after so many years of trying to fight the power. It gets really exhausting and maybe you just want to live life. Maybe that's all you have the bandwidth for. You know, there's been so much conversation over the past few years since, you know, the Black Lives Matters movement and different things like that. How do you sustain a cultural momentum like that in these kinds of movements, in these grassroots organizing? And what happens next? Is this a lifelong thing? Or like, how do you make it a lifelong thing without necessarily burning out? Because burning out is a real reality for a lot of folks. And especially for as much activism as like Leonardo DiCaprio's character takes on.

• 11:01Speaker 03

  He's, you know, really involved with this countercultural group. And then all of a sudden, you know, he tries to, you know, go back to life as a civilian and it turns out that you can't always go back.

• 11:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  So that's a very, you know, real discussion and reality that, you know, happens in countries the world over, let alone, you know, what might happen here.

• 11:20Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  It was an interesting sort of tension there to see like, yeah, you can. Tap into the movement, but you can't necessarily always quit it. Right.

• 11:28Aisha Harris?

  Let me lay all my cards out on the table, which is that the more I've mulled over on this, the more I've come around to, this is very, very good. I want to watch this movie again.

• 11:38Speaker 03

  Same.

• 11:38Aisha Harris?

  I think to your point, Glenn, about how it really kind of captures what it means, like when the revolution is no longer sexy, like it's sexy until it's not. You know, eventually, most, if not all, revolutionaries find themselves in their older age, whether it's actually the system breaking them down or just getting older, maybe getting a bit more conservative, things just change. And I love that aspect of this film and how seriously it takes it. I think for me, where I was wanting something a little bit different, and it's always a gamble to argue that a movie should have been this when it's not, because it's like you have to judge what's on the screen. But I do think the movie does give me something that I wanted more of.

• 12:21Aisha Harris?

  And that is, you know, this idea of Tiana Taylor's character, Perfidia, and what exactly her motivations are beyond just being a black woman.

• 12:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:32Aisha Harris?

  That's not his focus. And I wonder, is it because Leo is a bigger name and is a white man and he just understands it more like the whole white supremacy stuff I was totally on board with. I wanted Perfidia. That part of it felt a little surface level for me because it kind of rushes by really, really quickly in the first, you know, act of this movie, because we're in the past and we're seeing them before they've had their daughter. And she's such a fascinating character because she is kind of like a a Pam Grier in the seventies, like she is depicted as like this revolutionary, like black power figure, but then she's using her sexuality and actually like gets off to some extent on like wielding a gun and on having this sort of power.

• 13:17Aisha Harris?

  And there's even a moment where they're robbing a bank and Juggle Pussy, who is the rapper who plays a character named Juggle Pussy in this movie, and she's part of the Friends 75. At one point she says like, "I am what black power looks like." And I was like, ah, okay. I guess what I wanted more of was like a little bit more of an understanding of what that revolution is for those black characters because it does mean something. The fact that we know that they're the ones leading this and people like Leo are just kind of along for the ride.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 13:49Aisha Harris?

  And Anna Haim also shows up very briefly, like kind of blink if you miss it as part of the group, but the black and brown people are leading this charge. And I kind of wanted a little bit more of that before we turn to focusing on on the Leo character. And I think that's kind of where I. And also like Regina Hall is in this movie. I was gonna say. She is completely under you. Yeah.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Okay, this is not an excuse, but here's what I think was happening in PTA's mind. He wants to say, I need to represent the culturally common idea of a revolutionary. That's DiCaprio. He also wants to acknowledge that that he is not the whole story. We see in this movie that revolution, or at least resistance, is a noble thing and that revolutionaries can also be competent and you want to get behind them. And yes, if they take the form of Tiana Taylor, they can be sexy. I agree, that's pretty much all she is in this movie. That's her characterization, but in the same way, if it takes the form of Benicio del Toro, revolution can be chill as hell. And I would argue that chill as hell is also pretty much the extent of his, that's who he is. But, you know, he's effective.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  I mean, there's a lot of really compelling images in this film, including that Shay scene you guys talked about, but the one that I'm going to be kept with is the silhouettes of these kids leaping across rooftops. Joyful, purposeful, gorgeous. And then I think what he's trying to say, and I don't think he's doing it in a particularly layered way, but he's saying, that's the resistance.

• 15:11Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  And then we see DiCaprio huffing and puffing behind them and then it's like, he's like, that's us.

• 15:15Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  Right? Which is why I think the film wants to be a call to action, but not a humorless or didactic one. But a fun one. It is a mainstream movie that has subversiveness at its center. It's not a deep subversiveness, but it's there. And all it's really saying is get off the couch, look around and help each other. And I bought it.

• 15:32Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 03

  I really dug the fact that you have so many different examples of what a revolutionary leader looks like, whether that's more the showstopper, more the person who gets off on control like Perfidia, or like Deandra, which is Regina Hall's character. Like she's way more in control than I think almost anyone else in the movie up until a certain point. And she's kind of running, you know, a good portion of that movie. I enjoyed that. And same thing with Benicio del Toro, like even though he has this very cool reflective service, like nothing's gonna trouble him. He's overseeing, you know, a huge operation and, you know, while Leo's character Bob is freaking out and like throwing himself on the floor to not be seen by the cops.

• 16:15Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 03

  Benicio is like just slowly and purposely packing his stuff, getting ready to go into the next mission.

• 16:21Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 16:22Speaker 03

  So you have all different kinds of responses to this moment of action, a moment of crisis.

• 16:26Aisha Harris?

  Absolutely. I think all of those points, I agree with them and I think they're so important to point out. I have to say like this is, again, this is a me sort of critique. I think also I'm just looking at it from the sense of like the history of black people on film and black women specifically on film and how you are kind of like playing with fire here to have a black woman character who is so sexualized in a way and in a violent way. And I'm not saying he doesn't necessarily pull it off, but I do think that I wanted a little bit more complications with that.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  Um, yeah.

• 17:03Aisha Harris?

  And also, again, this movie is almost three hours long. I'm not sure what I would cut to make more room for that.

• 17:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:09Aisha Harris?

  I will say while I felt I wanted a little bit more from Tiana Taylor's character and Regina Hall's character, we do get to spend a good amount of time with Willa, Bob and Profidia's daughter, who's played by Chase Infinity, who is actually new to me.

• 17:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, also new to me. I think she does an astounding job with the complexity of the role. First you get to meet her. She's like this naughty sixteen year old who doesn't like trust her dad or just like eye rolls, whatever. He's freaking out about something and also kind of.

• 17:37Aisha Harris?

  To be fair, Bob is a little like no phones.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  Not world's best dad.

• 17:43Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 17:43Speaker 03

  She is actually kind of looking out for him.

• 17:46Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 17:46Speaker 03

  At that beginning set and then is trying to, you know, get him to wake up essentially.

• 17:51Aisha Harris?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:51Speaker 03

  And then she is kind of like coming into her own at this moment and this, again, moment of crisis and has to kind of reckon with her family's past, her own. You know, role in this and what she, what is she gonna do? Is she gonna run away? Is she gonna stand and fight? There's a big, you know, question for her to answer. And I mean, she throws her all into it. I mean, she's, she's really great and such a great scene partner for Leo as well.

• 18:17Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, she is a very convincing 16 year old who is both sheltered, but also is like, whatever, Dad, I'm doing what I need to do to try and feel as normal as possible. I think overall, like, this is such a, I don't know. Paul Thomas Anderson, for me, has never made a bad movie. You know, this is his 10th feature. He's just one of our most consistent working directors today. I'm just very happy that he even decided that, like, I want to at least try to address something that is happening now, that something that's been happening for a very long time. But yeah, it's a fun time. I think people are gonna have thoughts about it. You should definitely tell us what you think about one battle after another, because there is so much to talk about, so much to chew on.

• 19:02Aisha Harris?

  I'm gonna see it again, and who knows? I might see it again and change my mind completely on how I feel about this. But find us on Facebook at facebook.com/PCHH and on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/NPRPopCulture. We'll have a link to that in our episode description. And up next, what's making us happy this week?

• 19:20Speaker 05

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• 19:25Speaker 00

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• 20:35Aisha Harris?

  Hey y'all, before we get back to the show, yes, you, you with impeccable taste in podcasts, if Pop Culture Happy Hour has ever helped you win a group chat debate, find a hit series before everyone else, or pretend you saw that movie, you definitely didn't, do us a solid and leave the show a review wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps more people find us and helps us make the show even better for you. And now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week, what's making us happy? Monica, let us know.

• 21:05Speaker 03

  So this past Saturday, Amazon hosted a live stream of the end of Bad Bunny's residency at El Choli in Puerto Rico. It was the end of his No Me Quiero Y De Aquí residency, so it was a big to-do. For those of us who were able to log into the broadcast, great. If you missed it, I'm so sorry. But good news is, there's like little clips and everything that keep circulating. And I'm so in love with the number of memes and reactions and posts that people have been doing ever since then. It just felt like a moment for the community to come together and enjoy something, kind of celebrate Latino joy, that even if we aren't Puerto Rico, we can all still take joy in each other's arts, send support and solidarity for a lot of the things that Bad

• 21:49Speaker 03

  Bunny was singing about and drawing awareness to. It really felt like a moment that we all kind of tuned in and watched the same show at the same time, which we don't usually get to experience that much. So I was, I was glad for it and I'm glad that the memes and the videos are living on and having a second life, even though the live stream has expired.

• 22:08Aisha Harris?

  So that was Bad Bunny's final show for his residency, which was live streaming on Amazon. And we should note that Amazon supports NPR and pays to distribute some of our content. Thank you so much, Monica. That was great. Glenn, what is making you happy this week?

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Plane Close is a film that's in theaters now. It stars Russell Tovey and Tom Blyth. It's the debut feature from writer-director Carmen Emi, and it's about a young undercover cop played by Blyth, whose job it is to entrap and arrest gay men cruising in public toilets. You will not be surprised to learn that the Blyth character is very deeply conflicted about this because he's still, wait for it, in the closet. And then hot daddy Russell Tovey shows up into the men's room and complications ensue. This movie isn't reinventing the wheel, but it's a solid wheel that is not overwritten. It's really solid. And I should note that some reviewers haven't liked some of the film's stylistic flourishes. It switches to handheld video at certain, you know, really emotional moments. I kind of love that, frankly, especially when you consider the film's really about surveillance. It made sense to me.

• 23:08Speaker 02

  And I'm curious to see what Emmy does next, which is the best thing a first film can do. So that is Plane Close. It's in theaters now.

• 23:15Aisha Harris?

  Thank you so much. I've heard nothing but good things about it, so I'm definitely gonna add that to my very, very long to-watch list. No, I want to catch up with that one. I missed it at Sundance. Yes, so did I. Well, one movie that I did not miss at Sundance is actually my happy this week, and it is one of the best things I saw at the festival this year. That is Predators, which is directed and produced by David Ossit. You may be familiar, if you're of a certain age, of the show To Catch a Predator, which first aired as a news segment in 2004 on Dateline NBC and then continued for a few years after. And I don't really remember watching this myself, but once I watched this documentary, I was like, oh, yeah, this was the format of the show,

• 23:56Aisha Harris?

  which was adults who could convincingly look like they were minors would impersonate minors online, then lure would-be sex offenders to a house that was part of an undercover operation. And then the host, Chris Hansen, would show up, confront the men, and reveal the entire production crew hidden in the house. And then afterwards, they would usually be arrested by police waiting outside.

• 24:21Aisha Harris?

  This documentary is so fascinating because it focuses on the consequences and the effects on those who were involved, including, you know, the emotional toll it took on the decoys, who were being used to lure these people, and also the highly-publicized suicide that led to a lawsuit and then the end of the program eventually. This is a doc that kind of like asks, what has all of this wrought? Like, did this actually work to stem abuse? Or was this just another form of shame, humiliation, put on display for everyone's entertainment? So it's really complicated. It's really layered and really harrowing and devastating, and I highly recommend it. So that's Predators. It is in theaters, limited release currently. And then it's supposed to expand nationwide on October 3rd.

• 25:04Aisha Harris?

  It's tough stuff, but also really, really fascinating as well. That's what's making me happy this week. If you want links for what we recommended, plus more recommendations, you should definitely sign up for our newsletter at npr.org/popculturenewsletter. That brings us to the end of our show. Monica Castillo, Glenn Walden, thanks so much for being here.

• 25:22Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 25:23Aisha Harris?

  Thanks for having me. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger, Carlee Rubin, and Mike Katsev, and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello, Come In provides our theme music. Thanks so much for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Aisha Harris, and we'll see you all next week.

• 25:41Speaker 05

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