The Athlete vs The Human

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast Sometimes analysts need to separate the player from the person, and in this episode Ryan, Channing and Fred touch on how volatile perspectives of athletes can be. In the previous podcast episode with Devin Hester on Tuesday, the guys discussed the importance of providing an environment for their guests to open up. By speaking on Devin’s courage and reflection, they mention how blessed they are to be trusted with the platform for athletes and entertainers to speak their truth. With an open and honest environment, Devin was able to touch on aspects of his journey that he has not been public about before. Switching to trending headlines, Ryan references the importance of being an impartial football analyst who looks at the player instead of the person. With Deshaun Watson’s season-ending injury, they understand how easy it is to dwell on the negatives of people and blaming injuries on karma, but what if things are going well? Who do we credit then? Should the same theory apply when talking about positive impact off the field? Joshua Dobbs’ rise the past few weeks is an example of overcoming initial perceptions, which Ryan dealt with throughout his career as an undrafted player, always having to prove the doubters wrong. Fred loves the heart that Josh has been playing with even though multiple teams have given up on him before this. On the other end of the quarterback spectrum, although Channing is a mama’s boy, he dislikes the idea that Giants quarterback Tommy DeVito is starting in NFL games and still living with his mom and doesn’t hold back his thoughts!! The guys wrap up the episode talking the recent Draymond Green incident and the importance of fulfilling the enforcer role on his Warriors team but when is it too far or too much? Ryan and Fred have differing takes on this situation and share. Whether it is Joshua Dobbs’ success story or the negative media light being shined on Draymond and Deshaun, Ryan, Channing and Fred know that these athletes are each under the microscope from the public. It’s a tough balance of Navigating the adversity while respecting public opinion but not living by it. New episodes drop on Tuesdays at 12 p.m. ET and Fridays at 3:30 p.m ET on YouTube, with audio available on all streaming platforms including Apple, Spotify and Amazon. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:32Ryan Clark?

  I see you, Chad.

• 0:34Channing Crowder?

  The lows now.

• 0:35Ryan Clark?

  That's the lows.

• 0:36Channing Crowder?

  The lows, that what y'all?

• 0:38Ryan Clark?

  You finally figured it out. If you can't get the highs, if you can't get the highs, don't get the bids, get the lows.

• 0:45Channing Crowder?

  You see what's going on, that's what y'all did to me?

• 0:47Ryan Clark?

  I love it.

• 0:48Channing Crowder?

  These shoes is $200 damn dollars.

• 0:50Ryan Clark?

  Well, you know what else we've also done to you? We've helped you get a lot of other jobs that's gonna help you pay for them $200 shoes.

• 0:56Channing Crowder?

  I appreciate it.

• 0:57Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 0:58Channing Crowder?

  Crowder's living good.

• 0:59Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, it's all good. Hey, we got Crowder Eek now.

• 1:02Channing Crowder?

  We ate Stone Crafts three days in a row.

• 1:03Ryan Clark?

  Oh, Lord. It's not Stone Crafts.

• 1:06Channing Crowder?

  Three days in a row.

• 1:07Fred Taylor?

  Seeing you on the grill. You had a cook-off.

• 1:10Channing Crowder?

  Oh, yeah. What, Ra? I, I, I'm, bro, Freddie, you gotta ask that question?

• 1:16Fred Taylor?

  I mean, I need to know because if you got, if you got your Crowder seasoning, whatever you're gonna call them, what's the name of it?

• 1:22Channing Crowder?

  Crowder powder.

• 1:23Fred Taylor?

  Crowder powder.

• 1:24Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, I'll check that out. Crowder powder coming soon. But...

• 1:28Fred Taylor?

  That was the secret sauce.

• 1:29Channing Crowder?

  That's all I gotta do. But I also, I have, you know, I have my butter compost that I put on my steaks when I cook. It's a lot I do.

• 1:36Ryan Clark?

  I'm gonna say this, when she ate it though, I washed her face and she wanted the, she almost caught one.

• 1:44Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, y'all see why I'm married now?

• 1:46Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I saw that.

• 1:47Channing Crowder?

  I gave Asia orgasm on food before I gave her an orgasm.

• 1:54Ryan Clark?

  Welcome to The Pivot, by the way. Another exciting week for us, a good time to get together. We at Chan's house. Yeah, we actually go to each other's homes. I know it's weird. How's it weird? I'm just saying, you know, people just think like this is a show. Like a dude got mad at me on the interweb and was like, "Yeah, you guys rented a studio and cameras to talk about people's relationships." And say, "Well, actually, we didn't rent a studio. Joke's on you." That was his tone? That's the tone you took from it? That's the tone. That's the way. That's his voice. It sounded like his voice, too. That's the way he was talking. Yeah.

• 2:37Ryan Clark?

  But, you know, another thing that happens with the internet and social media and all of those things, like you get immediate reaction to the things that you do. We all knew it, that on Tuesday, when Devin opened up to us about his father not having cancer and dying of AIDS, what people would think about it. Obviously, to have a space where someone feels comfortable enough to share that with us for the first time is a blessing for us, I think. I'm very grateful people look at us that way. But on the other side of it, too, it made me think of what a burden that had to be for him to carry that entire time.

• 3:19Ryan Clark?

  You know, Chan, having a couple of days to look back on what Devin said, what were you thinking in the moment when he goes, "You know what, man? The story we made up about my dad having cancer wasn't true." It was, in the moment...

• 3:59Channing Crowder?

  It was mind boggling because I never expected that. Like as we sit here, you know what I'm saying? As we sit here and we prep and we talk about guy, oh, we have this guest coming on, I'll do our research. And then when he was like, the hell, I've been, I've been lying for so long. And when somebody says that, you kind of sit up. You know what I'm saying? You'd be like, lying about what? And then when he said it, I'm like, damn. And then he explained it to where like the stigma of AIDS. Now I gotta explain it to my buddies. Now I gotta explain it to, you know, my friends, my family, anybody I love. Like, and, and he, he wasn't comfortable with that. But that's the thing that, you know what I'm saying? We go through here is when we, when people really open up, you have to deal with the backlash of it. And that's what I think of Devin at, you know, whatever age that was,

• 4:43Channing Crowder?

  20, 21, 18, whatever age that was that he did that. He wasn't ready for the repercussions of that. And you've dealt with it. You've dealt with it. I've dealt with it now on this platform is where when you say something and now people start digging into that, to that topic. And that's why, to your point, RC, that's why I was, I felt blessed that Dee has felt that way and, and, you know, around us because he's done interviews. It's Devin Hester, bro. Like, like when I, when I see people were like, Woodson, we had C. Wood on, we had Dee Hess on. Like you could see that they opened up, but those are two people that everybody wants to talk to. And when they talk, they talk about it.

• 5:27Channing Crowder?

  It's like, damn, like that's the thing that, that I feel honored by is that people feel that open. But yeah, it's things, it's things that y'all know about me. It's things that the world knows about me because of this that they would never know if this platform wasn't here.

• 5:42Fred Taylor?

  And I agree with you, Chan. I think you're much like the D. Coordinators and the players. They would do a double deep breath, a double sigh. When Devin doesn't, remember went back to the house? Devin himself, now he can do that double deep breath. On the show, when he told us, you can imagine coming in, not even probably considered talking about that, but to be able to get it off your chest then, then kind of sit back to see how it was received in the eye of the public. So after we dropped the episode, kind of go down and you read the comments and everybody's just praising and encouraging him, you know, for his, for his courage and also the podcast and what we.

• 6:21Fred Taylor?

  The way we allow people to be comfortable and just be themselves and express themselves. But people think we just say everybody can podcast, but they can't pivot. Because one show, it can be laughs and seriousness, and then it can be tears. Tears of joy, all that different stuff. So it's so ranging. I just love what we do and how we try to give back in that sense.

• 6:42Channing Crowder?

  Freddie, that's the locker room.

• 6:43Fred Taylor?

  That is the locker room.

• 6:44Channing Crowder?

  People love is the locker room where...

• 6:46Fred Taylor?

  That is the locker room.

• 6:47Channing Crowder?

  And we have a locker room environment here where like, like, we talk about real stuff, family-wise, relationship-wise, you know what I'm saying? Like, we all know what's going on with each other, but on the same time, the same damn car ride, we'll laugh, we'll mess around, we'll talk about real stuff. And that's why people, it's funny when people say the locker room environment. What does that mean? It means that I can be fully open, we can laugh, we can fight, we can argue. Like, we don't agree on everything. That's the funny thing. People don't think, like, our relationships, bro, we don't agree on everything.

• 7:21Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 7:21Channing Crowder?

  But it's all love at the end of the day.

• 7:24Fred Taylor?

  The awareness, you know, that we bring. But even Devin, just not to take the credit, take it away from Devin. That was his platform. He was able to, you know, speak to that stigma. And now other people that might be hiding things, to really just go out and free themselves, release those chains. Because you can imagine, all those years, man, him having to carry that. Once he said in one interview, now it's a snowball effect. He felt like he had to protect that. But just to release it, not only it releases him, it releases his family. His brothers, because I'm pretty sure they had, you know, they were asked those same questions, and they had to maintain that same consistency in that lie.

• 8:05Channing Crowder?

  The same lie.

• 8:05Fred Taylor?

  You know what I'm saying? So just for them to break those chains and just release it all. And then on top of that, the parlay is the community. We're able to talk about it, we're able to understand it, research it more, you know? And, man, it's such a good feeling. Reno's coming, you know I'm a coming creep.

• 8:24Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, we know.

• 8:26Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I know. But it's a good feeling, man, just to see, really for Devin, more than anything.

• 8:31Ryan Clark?

  I think the thing I left away from it was, this isn't the locker room. Right, because there are things that are taboo in the locker room. There are things that are taboo amongst the machismo of what we have to do. The level of ego we have to have, the level of manliness you have to keep. And Devin was a child when he found out his father had AIDS. And a child who didn't understand, who he openly said, "I didn't understand." That I didn't want to eat, I didn't know if I could hug him. And he was, at that time, trying to develop a relationship with his father, who was recently out of prison, you know? And the lie started from embarrassment.

• 9:16Ryan Clark?

  And so you got to think, all of those years, and I don't know what friends he's told, what family members they've had the conversation with, but all of those years in the locker room, to not have an opportunity to share that, right? To continue to have to hold that burden and carry that lie. And like you said, it snowballs. And now every time you tell that story, it's another lie. It's another burden. It's something else that's on your soul. And I don't even want to call it a lie, because he was just protecting himself. You know, and so to be able to sit and, and give that away, right? To have to have carried that, held on to that, protected that for so long, and to finally be in a place, and I'm not even going to give the credit to us,

• 10:01Ryan Clark?

  to finally be in a place himself to say, "It's okay to say this. I'm comfortable enough with who my father was. I'm comfortable enough with who I am." To not only say, "I've deceived in order to protect myself, but I'm also tired of deceiving." And to, I think, lay that burden down in front of the world.

• 10:24Channing Crowder?

  That shows on the, the, the character of D. Hess.

• 10:30Channing Crowder?

  You know what I'm saying? That shows in that character. A lot of people will lie. Y'all know what m****s do.

• 10:35Fred Taylor?

  Take it to your grave.

• 10:36Channing Crowder?

  Take it to your grave. He did not want to do that. And that's, now I'm thinking about when you asked me when it first happened, RC, what I thought about. He, as, him as a man, he couldn't, he couldn't continue that, that deception. And that's why it was amazing to me. We talked since then. I've been, we were texting and all that stuff, bro. That, that's what I saw with that is just, it made me, you know, we respect people on the field, but I need to sit down, and we've recently been through it with players and, you know, different people we deal with business-wise. But that's why I love y'all, y'all boys, is because like, as a man, as a human being, that's why we vibe, that's why we ride.

• 11:22Channing Crowder?

  And for Dee has to sit there and say like, "I can't do this no more." Bro, that hit me. You know, I don't know, we played it, you know what I'm saying? I tell you, I'm about to share up right now, but that's what hit me with him, is that like, as a man, I can't deal with this anymore. And, RC's saying give him credit, I'm gonna give a credit to us. Because of the fact that like, when you sit down with the boys, bro, we talking, we BSing, we bullshitting, we just, we just vibing. And for him, that to be on his soul, bro, that's why I see him as a human being. Not the best kickoff returner of all time, not the Hall of Fame player he is. I know Fred, when you hear Hall of Fame, you get upset. Not that, but as a man, and that's why, that's why our relationship is the way it is.

• 12:07Channing Crowder?

  Because as men, I fool with y'all.

• 12:11Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, and I think, you know, when you look at the positivity that we've received and that the encouragement, I think is the, the perfect word you used as well, Fred, the encouragement that Devin got, it shows the, the reach of...

• 12:28Ryan Clark?

  The platform now, it shows the reach of how content is consumed. But I also think there's negativity to that as well. Deshaun Watson is now done for the season. He injured his ankle in the first quarter, played the entire games, 14 for 14 in the second half against the best defense in football, other than the one he plays with. And you know, then you find out after the game, after a big win, that he's done for the season. And if you're the Cleveland Browns, it finally seemed like, oh, that's it. This is our guy. This is what we've been waiting on. This is the monumental win. This is the team playing collectively together.

• 13:10Ryan Clark?

  And this is the $230 million guaranteed that we gave away. We finally, that long list of quarterbacks that you always show on that jersey of the Cleveland Browns, it's over. And now your guy is done. And I think on the other side of that, you go back to the comments of, this dude doesn't want to play because he got paid. Well, he played on a broken ankle for four quarters. Now do the people who have said things like that come back it out and say, okay, I was wrong? Because for a man to go out and play on a broken ankle, an ankle that now will not allow him to play the rest of the season, then that wasn't a thing. And it's also okay to admit, you feel a certain way about the sexual harassment allegations

• 13:55Ryan Clark?

  and the civil lawsuit, and you feel that because of that, he's a man you can't be positive about. He's a man that you can't say things when you turn on the film. You can't go, okay, this is good or this is bad. You can't look at it unbiasedly because you'll always feel that way. That's actually okay to admit, though people won't admit it. But along with what's great about the internet, our ability to connect with people we don't know, there is the negative side that now people, it's karma. I'm glad it happened to him. This is what should happen to quote unquote sexual predators. Right? And so when you look at the situation in as a whole Freddie T, what are the things that sticks that stick out to you?

• 14:39Ryan Clark?

  About Deshaun's injury? And also about the way you feel it's being received slash reported commented on?

• 14:48Fred Taylor?

  Well, I can say this. Deshaun's a dog. I got a chance to watch him, you know, for a few years being in the same division in the AFC South with Jacksonville. I would see Houston come to town and I would follow the team back there. So I know he's a player. I don't have any questions about that. To go out and show that sort of heart when they were down bad to the Ravens. He was hurt and he could have quit. He could have just said, you know what? I'm done. Let the staff check and be done with it. But they fought back and ended up winning that game. So I think you shouldn't question his heart on whether he wants to play or not. People get paid all the time. People are going to get paid. They go out there. I don't know a player that actually had ever quit, you know, and didn't want to play. If they weren't good enough, then they just weren't good enough.

• 15:33Fred Taylor?

  But here's a guy who's good enough. He has a big heart. He wants to be there. He wants to lead his team. It's unfortunate. You know, it's unfortunate for the Browns to make that sort of investment and not be able to show these early returns that they had anticipated for signing him with such a, you know, record breaking deal. Right? The first of his kind of fully guaranteed. It comes with the territory though. Obviously the allegations that are out there, they will never leave. They're going to follow him his entire life. That's just the way it goes. You know, he's in the spotlight, being an athlete, being a guy who is a very good player. Superstar type player.

• 16:15Fred Taylor?

  The conversations on the internet, they're gonna be there. You're gonna have some guy people pulling for him. You're gonna have negative comment. What he has to do is just completely disregard those distractions. He can't open a Twitter or X. He can't really run on his Instagram and read comments because they're not gonna be good for him. He has to just focus on himself, getting back healthy and going out there to do the thing we know he loves, which is play football, be a leader. You look at Aaron Rodgers, he's out. He's constantly around his team, leading, you know, off the field, teaching the guys in the facility and moving around.

• 16:56Fred Taylor?

  And I think Deshaun will do a lot of that, being a part of the team. But yeah, it comes with the territory, man. If he wasn't a famous superstar, whether, you know, those things happened or not, I wasn't there. But I know the allegations are there. People are gonna say what they're gonna say regardless.

• 17:14Channing Crowder?

  I'm gonna say, bro, because I even said the Browns will be a problem if Deshaun gets back the way he was in Houston. The Browns will be a problem. That defense is stupid. That defense is amazing. But RC, you've been criticized for supporting, I don't wanna seem to say supporting, but speaking truth about Deshaun Watson and who he is and the situation and all that. The separation of that, where how can I, like you're saying on the internet, oh, that's karma, that's what this guy gets. Like, how do you deal with both sides? You know what I'm saying?

• 17:46Ryan Clark?

  It's a ton of actual bad humans who are really good at football. Right? There are people that are very successful at life that aren't great human beings, that don't treat people the way that they should be treated, that have done things that are similar to Deshaun Watson or similar to what Deshaun Watson has been accused of, that haven't gotten the notoriety and attention that his civil cases got, that we know or that I know or that we know of, that I know are highly successful. I don't think that that plays into it. To me, it's about when I'm doing my job as an analyst, I'm talking about the football player.

• 18:32Ryan Clark?

  I don't, I don't get to go back in retrospectively and say he's guilty of these crimes if he's not been, if he's not been charged or if he's not been found guilty of these crimes. That's not my job. My job is when I turn on the film, is this above the line play or below the line play? And I was very honest, a few weeks ago, I said if I'm Andrew Berry, the general manager of the Cleveland Browns, I'm asking myself, did I make a mistake? He's out with a shoulder injury. We haven't seen him play to the level he played in Houston. I gave him 230 million guaranteed, which means I had to tell the world, I actually believe in the man. That's hard.

• 19:11Ryan Clark?

  But it was easy to believe in the man enough because he wasn't found guilty of those charges because you knew how good he could be at football. But if he ain't as good as he could be at football, you effed up. Yeah. And so, that was how I chose to analyze him as a player and as a man, first off, what the hell tells me I'm entitled to judge anybody? Because some of the things, and let me be very clear, I've never been accused or even been a part of anything close to what Deshaun Watson was dealing with or accused of doing. But I don't, I haven't lived this pristine life of perfection.

• 19:54Ryan Clark?

  I don't look back at every interaction I've had with every human in the world and say, I was right here. I was just here. I was kind here. I was decent here. And so, because I have a platform, because they give me a microphone, because they pay me money to talk about sports, I get to continue to pile on this dude constantly and all the time when it has nothing to do with what the hell I'm talking about? I don't believe in that because I don't want people treating me that way. I don't want people continually judging me by my worst moment or the worst thing they know about me because they can, when they actually don't know the facts of who I am. And so I try to treat people the same way, but for treating people the same way in the sins

• 20:38Ryan Clark?

  or in the situations that everybody decides is too far. It's like, I could be effed up, but I ain't that effed up. Like, how do you get to do that? And I think that's what we're seeing now with Deshaun, when people are starting to attach a football injury, which is 100% in the game we play.

• 20:58Channing Crowder?

  Everybody gets hurt.

• 20:59Ryan Clark?

  Everybody's gonna get hurt in some way, shape, or form. It's 100%. But for him, for him, it's karma, right? For him, it's the life you live says you should be injured. Kirk Cousins is a preacher's son, right? I've been around Kirk Cousins.

• 21:17Channing Crowder?

  I saw the movie.

• 21:17Ryan Clark?

  Kirk Cousins is a good human. He's a good dude.

• 21:21Channing Crowder?

  I saw the movie, bro.

• 21:22Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, like, you could disagree with some of the ways he sees life, but you could do that with anybody. But the dude does not go out and intentionally hurt anybody. He's playing extremely well. He's on his contract year, finna get paid. He tears his Achilles. Is that effing karma? Or is that football? And that's my biggest problem with it.

• 21:42Channing Crowder?

  Tom Brady tears his ACL when that little safety, you always remind me of his name when he blitzed in second game, Chiefs.

• 21:48Ryan Clark?

  Was it Pollard? It was Pollard, and then he went to Baltimore.

• 21:52Channing Crowder?

  Pollard hit his knee. Was that karma?

• 21:55Channing Crowder?

  Was that karma for Tom Brady? Bro, I want people to look up that little story. Remember the Rams defensive end, Tennessee guy? You know, the vehicular?

• 22:06Ryan Clark?

  Vehicular manslaughter.

• 22:09Channing Crowder?

  Like, he made a mistake. You know what I'm saying? Look up, but even, I'll go to this extent. What Randy Moss did in college.

• 22:19Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 22:19Channing Crowder?

  Why he got drafted later. Jameis Winston did. Jameis Winston thought he had a hookup at the Publix. Jameis Winston thought, I am the starting quarterback of Florida State. I could walk in and get crab legs and walk out. Jameis Winston is still regretting the day that he walked out with them crab legs.

• 22:34Ryan Clark?

  People still bring it up, though.

• 22:36Channing Crowder?

  To this day.

• 22:37Fred Taylor?

  But that's, I mentioned, it's gonna follow Deshaun.

• 22:41Channing Crowder?

  It's gonna follow Deshaun.

• 22:42Fred Taylor?

  Regardless of what happens, so, but that's just the nature of human beings, unfortunately.

• 22:46Channing Crowder?

  But that's the thing, that's what human beings want to do. But, like, just piggybacking off RC's point, like, at what point do you separate that from evaluating a player to?

• 23:01Channing Crowder?

  Who he is as a human being, I'll tell you this, I'll bring up the name, bro. Donnie Spragans, y'all probably never heard about him in your life. Donnie Spragan, he is a, he's in, he went to Stanford. Dude is a genius, he was a linebacker number 59 for the Dolphins when I came to the Dolphins. The man was a great human being. The man had degrees from Stanford, he was biology something like, he was a genius and I loved to be around him because he was like clever. But when I bring up guys like that, they're like, no, they want to hear about Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Ricky Williams, Ronnie Brown. But people like, who's your favorite teammate? And I'd be like, D Sprag was one of my favorite because I liked being around him because he was a good dude.

• 23:41Channing Crowder?

  So I'm bringing that up on the other side of that, where like, the, the positive of a person, people don't want to hear about. They want to always dwell on this other side, but to what we're talking about, that mid part, all our ass is, are football players that have to perform. And why do we separate the positive from, from guys when you can't separate the negative? Have you ever heard, oh, this guy got arrested, oh, but he has a double degree from Stanford? Do you ever hear that, Ryan? Like, you, you, that's your job, you ever hear that? When people like, no, we'll give him the benefit of the doubt because he's very smart, very intelligent. Double degree from Stanford, married with kids, he's a good dude, he made a mistake that night.

• 24:24Channing Crowder?

  But no, they're always going to dwell on the negative and that's what people do and that's the shit that pisses me off.

• 24:29Ryan Clark?

  What I, what I will say, if I know for a fact someone's a good dude, I speak about them differently. I, I can be 100% honest. If I have, if I have a personal experience with you, if, let's say you, for instance, if you were talking about a guy from the Dolphins and you were like, man, I love that dude, Lil Chan was at the game, nobody wanted to sign Lil Chan's autograph. He came back, stopped, signed his autograph, took a picture, if he got burnt the hell up. I'm talking about toe out the frame. I would analyze it, right? I would say, you know, you know, right here, man, when you're looking at like, you can't go underneath, you gotta go with this hand. Like, I would do all that. I wouldn't crush him.

• 25:14Ryan Clark?

  I wouldn't make jokes about him. I, I, I would, I would hold back a little bit of my personality in analyzing, because I think he's a good, because I've heard he's a good person. Or I know he's extended himself in a, in a different way. And, and so I think, I think it does, like, we're human. I think the human element always comes into play in anything that we do, as much as we try to take it out of our work. I also, I also, and I can be very honest about this, if I know you're a bad human, I don't let it come into my analyst work either. I knew who A.B. was forever.

• 25:51Channing Crowder?

  We heard about it, we heard about it.

• 25:53Ryan Clark?

  Right? But until it became a thing where it affected the actual game of football, I never said a word. Which is why when he was leaving Pittsburgh and I said it, people thought it was like, I'm hating. No, I've always known this. But for the last five years that I haven't been there, he's been the best receiver in football, and it had nothing to do with the person he was, so I never said it. Right? And so I think that it could play both ways, but when we're talking about just the, the, the normal human, the human outside of an analyst job, the human outside of a platform, we also have to be aware, and we also have to let them, like, understand their entitlement to their own opinions. And we don't get to control that.

• 26:36Fred Taylor?

  But it's, it's, it's a bit of them if you do, or them if you don't, again. And it's very nitpicky.

• 26:42Ryan Clark?

  Well, guys, I'm not really sure why, but our partners over at DraftKings won our picks again. If they watch me on Fridays, they shouldn't. But I got one this week. I'm going with Detroit, because they play in Chicago. And if Detroit doesn't get a win, then it's 0-0.

• 26:58Channing Crowder?

  You know what? I'm gonna lay out a same-game parlay for y'all.

• 27:00Ryan Clark?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 27:01Channing Crowder?

  Because Pittsburgh is going into Cleveland, and I think Cleveland comes out on top and take the under, because they got hella five defenses.

• 27:09Fred Taylor?

  Well, I like the game with brotherly love, and it's gonna be a swift bet.

• 27:12Ryan Clark?

  I like that, actually.

• 27:14Fred Taylor?

  Because I am going with Kansas City.

• 27:16Ryan Clark?

  There are your picks. I know for sure mine is right. These other two, we just gotta wait to see.

• 27:25Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 27:53Speaker 04

  Blowing ad budget on metrics that look great, till the CFO sees them? That's bull spend. And marketers are calling it out. In. Dashboard. Confessions.

• 28:03Speaker 05

  I remember telling my boss, "It'll be good for the brand", when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't.

• 28:11Speaker 04

  Cut the bull spend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title, and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com/campaign. Terms and conditions apply.

• 28:26Fred Taylor?

  You talk about karma. People kind of pick and choose what's karma-related. I don't think you can have it both ways. Pretty much, all right, take this for example. Have y'all ever met the fucking Illuminati? Because if you have, I need to contact. Because, check this out.

• 28:41Channing Crowder?

  My phone.

• 28:42Fred Taylor?

  They judge you. They judge very successful people. And they say, "Well, they sold their soul." They don't want to talk about the hard work. It's like, kind of like reverse karma. You know what I'm trying to get at? People pick and choose. They say if something bad happened to you, it was because of karma. But what about when some good shit is going on in my life? What is that? Yeah. What is that? Illuminati? That's the fucking Illuminati. Or some of the fucking crazy. And they only apply to certain people.

• 29:08Ryan Clark?

  Illuminati? I don't even know what it is.

• 29:10Fred Taylor?

  Talking about success.

• 29:10Channing Crowder?

  It's energy. It's, people put so many words on this. Religion, energy, God, rock, jog. They... When things go bad.

• 29:21Fred Taylor?

  It's always karma.

• 29:22Channing Crowder?

  It's always karma.

• 29:23Fred Taylor?

  He did something bad.

• 29:24Channing Crowder?

  But even that, religion, I said, when things go bad, why would he do this to me? But now you rolling, everything's successful, everything's rolling, everything's good.

• 29:33Ryan Clark?

  Is he giving it to you now, right?

• 29:35Channing Crowder?

  Do you always say, why is he doing all this great stuff to you?

• 29:38Fred Taylor?

  That would've taught me a long time ago. Don't question the man. Don't question the man. It ain't no why. You deal with it, you figure it out, you pray on it, and you keep it pushing. And wait for that better moment. Why, you can't say why this, why that, why.

• 29:53Ryan Clark?

  I have a question then. I have a question about this though, before we get, before y'all finish that. Are things going really well for Josh Dobbs? Or badly? And this is why I ask.

• 30:04Fred Taylor?

  That's a great question.

• 30:05Ryan Clark?

  This is why I ask, right? Perspective. Perspective. Like, we can go all the other side. Josh Dobbs is America's darling. No one has a bad word to say about him.

• 30:14Channing Crowder?

  No.

• 30:15Ryan Clark?

  And no team really wants him. Right? The man, the man goes to Tennessee, plays as soon as he gets there, plays so well with all of the quarterbacks they've had on that team. He's the guy playing to get them in the playoffs last year. Goes to Cleveland, playing out of his mind preseason, right? Let's trade him to Arizona. Arizona drafts the guy. They start him. He plays well. You beat the Dallas Cowboys, right? Blow them out. Know what? We don't want you either. We gonna send you to Minnesota. Guess what he does when he gets to Minnesota?

• 30:52Fred Taylor?

  Snap.

• 30:52Ryan Clark?

  Snaps! Is life good for Josh Dobbs? Or bad?

• 30:59Fred Taylor?

  You gotta ask Josh that.

• 31:02Channing Crowder?

  You do have to ask Josh that. But I would say, I would say, and I can't figure it out, y'all probably, y'all are smarter than me. There has to be a flaw in Josh Dobbs. They see the value. Like you're saying, when teams trade people, you have to have value.

• 31:18Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 31:19Channing Crowder?

  Oh, he's doing this, so they see, like, somebody sees the value. Minnesota saw the value, Arizona saw the value. I would, I would ask you back, what's wrong with him?

• 31:30Ryan Clark?

  Initial perception.

• 31:33Channing Crowder?

  Of what?

• 31:33Ryan Clark?

  So, and this is something that I had to deal with that maybe y'all didn't, right? The initial perception of me was if 32 teams for three days didn't think he was good enough to draft, how can we ever settle on him being our guy? There has to be somebody more talented, right? So, when I won the job in Pittsburgh, Bill Cowherd told me that day, because it was me and TC, me and Tyrone Carter, me and Lil Pistol Starter.

• 32:05Channing Crowder?

  I fish with TC.

• 32:06Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, great man, love him. So, I beat TC out. They tell me that day, Anthony Smith, who was drafted, who was super talented, Brian Dawkins, like, he's gonna play at some point this season, RC. You won it, we're gonna go with you strictly off of the veteran leadership, but he's gonna play. I get hurt, Week 12. That was his first defensive snap, because that's how well I played. The next year, it's me and him, we're in a battle, I beat him out. It's not even close. They tell me, man, you played so well, you're gonna be the starter, you won the job, but he's gonna play every third series. You see what I'm saying?

• 32:46Ryan Clark?

  I get sick, he starts to play, defense goes down, I'm 160 pounds, it's January, I walk in and talk to the DB coach, and he says, "We didn't know how important you were until you weren't here. If you, if you can play again, it's your job." It took that, though, right? It took, it took to not have me. Same thing in Washington. We're gonna give Archie Letter the biggest deal in football. You can come back, though, all y'all gonna play, you can play for the minimum. Every, there's not a person I ever walk up to that's a Washington fan that doesn't bring that up to me. But you know what I mean? But it was always, if nobody wanted you, something's wrong with you. There is a defect. You see what I'm saying?

• 33:30Channing Crowder?

  People running out of other people's opinions.

• 33:32Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, so now Josh Dobbs, you're a fourth round guy. You were never really seen as a starter here. You were a backup here. Yeah, like, what you're doing is starter-like, and it's really good, but we gotta be able to find something better.

• 33:45Fred Taylor?

  And those teams are crazy. You got, those are just decision-makers. They don't always get it right, right? The NFL, it's, it's cliche, it's a copycat league. And they always say, the more you can do. I don't think Josh is, what was your question? He's not having a bad life.

• 34:00Ryan Clark?

  The man living out his suitcase for the team.

• 34:03Fred Taylor?

  But these are opportunities. These, this opportunity presents that opportunity that present that opportunity. His ass could be home.

• 34:09Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 34:10Fred Taylor?

  Wondering why wasn't I good enough?

• 34:12Ryan Clark?

  That's the good life.

• 34:13Fred Taylor?

  You know what I'm saying? So now, he has these opportunities regardless suitcase, but in his mind, optimistically, he has to be thinking, I'm gonna stick somewhere. And, and it might happen, you know, but the NFL is just one of those fickle and kinda, these teams copy each other and they're homeboys and they're getting on the phone. And we look at it and say, man, they, they fucking over the kid. But, he's gonna keep going and you gotta love that heart. You just gotta love that he ain't letting that shake him. And that's what I love about it.

• 34:45Channing Crowder?

  Fred, it's what makes me think, we had Ocho on recently. He was talking about when he went to Canada, and he was talking about he was gonna go to the Montreal, Alouettes, wherever he played. And he was talking about, I'm about to dog these dudes, this is the Canadian league. He was like, bro, it's ballers over here. It's something that, and that's why, bro, it, not even amp us up, that's the 1% of the 1%. As RC talks about, like, bro, you was on a Super Bowl defense, one of the best defenses ever. Fred, every time your ass walk out the house, you have everybody giving you dap, like, that they afraid it was bad. Like, bro, it's the 1% of the 1%. And when you look at that number, the 1% of the 1%, you can't have flaws.

• 35:27Ryan Clark?

  Yep, agreed.

• 35:28Channing Crowder?

  And that's my question, like, for Josh Dobbs, and I always say it, bro, y'all heard me say this, there are not 32 good quarterbacks in the world. Because I'm looking at these damn offenses.

• 35:37Ryan Clark?

  He better than somebody, Chan.

• 35:39Channing Crowder?

  The Giant, I was just gonna say, the Giants had negative nine yards passing about three weeks ago.

• 35:45Ryan Clark?

  Tommy DeVito.

• 35:47Ryan Clark?

  Look Chan.

• 35:47Channing Crowder?

  Josh is better than him.

• 35:49Ryan Clark?

  Chan, he live with his mama.

• 35:50Channing Crowder?

  Bro, Arizona, who they play a couple of weeks back? The Browns? These motherf**ers had 58 yards of total offense.

• 35:57Ryan Clark?

  Yup.

• 35:59Channing Crowder?

  There is not-

• 36:00Ryan Clark?

  Clayton Toon.

• 36:01Channing Crowder?

  Quarterbacks, and they're starting Clayton Toon. That's where if I'm sitting, to bring it back around, if I'm sitting as Josh Dobbs, I'm looking at these type offenses and these type teams and saying, "I can take that team over and get you more than 58 f**ing yards in an entire game."

• 36:20Ryan Clark?

  So here's my question though Chan. Do you want your starting quarterback to live with his mom, have all his meals cooked by his mama, and his mama make his bed every day?

• 36:30Channing Crowder?

  I don't, I don't want that guy- That's that boy, the Giants boy.

• 36:35Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 36:35Channing Crowder?

  I heard him talk, he was bragging about it too. "Boy, you need to grow up, son. You need to tighten up, you a grown ass man." You a grown ass man. What's his name, Danny DeVito?

• 36:46Ryan Clark?

  Tommy.

• 36:47Channing Crowder?

  Tommy?

• 36:47Ryan Clark?

  Danny DeVito's an actor.

• 36:49Channing Crowder?

  Is the, that's the-

• 36:50Ryan Clark?

  From Twins. Always Sunny in Philadelphia. The Penguin. The Penguin. Yeah, he's the Penguin.

• 36:57Channing Crowder?

  Bro, take the titty out your mouth, Danny.

• 37:01Ryan Clark?

  Tommy.

• 37:01Channing Crowder?

  Tommy. Take the titty out your mouth, Tommy. Tighten up.

• 37:05Fred Taylor?

  What year is Tommy?

• 37:07Channing Crowder?

  I don't care.

• 37:08Fred Taylor?

  See, but now you, now when you talk about him living with his mom, when did he get drafted?

• 37:12Ryan Clark?

  You live with your mama?

• 37:13Fred Taylor?

  Because look-

• 37:14Channing Crowder?

  I know, my mama live with me. My mama live with me. I was paying the bills. Now, let's say, let's get it right now. I moved my mama in my house with me because I was being pleasant.

• 37:25Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 37:25Channing Crowder?

  And she was down there, I'm not living with her-

• 37:27Ryan Clark?

  Can Tommy get action at his mama's house? Because I'm sure you had action at your house with your mom.

• 37:32Channing Crowder?

  I got a funny story about living with your mom when you owned the house.

• 37:41Channing Crowder?

  Came home from the club one night with two sisters.

• 37:46Channing Crowder?

  And one of them was wild. I don't know what she was on. But I was with one of the sisters, right? And the other sister, my mom was in the back room. And the other sister was just walking around the house. So she's trying to find me and the one sister.

• 38:01Fred Taylor?

  Her.

• 38:02Channing Crowder?

  Her. So we were talking, we messing around, and she is a sister with her. So a sister walking around the house trying to find us. So she walks in my mom's bedroom. And my mom kind of jumps up. Like, oh, and she gets scared and she runs in my mom's closet.

• 38:18Channing Crowder?

  Which is a true story. Runs in my mom's closet. So then my mom's kind of like, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am. And she's trying to get out the closet. My mom, Pauline, is a very pleasant person. She opens the door, and she opens the door, scares the hell out the girl. The girl runs out. The girl's naked at the time. I don't know why she was naked.

• 38:37Fred Taylor?

  Because this wasn't your friend?

• 38:38Channing Crowder?

  No, it was my friend. We're over there handling business on the other side of the house. But now the other sister's stumbling around the house. Ma'am, ma'am, ma'am. So then she jumps out. Pauline takes a swing at her. She don't hit her, but she takes a swing at her.

• 38:53Channing Crowder?

  And after that night, I'm like, you know what? I'm not bringing, I'm not bringing any more couple or sisters or partners to the house at the time. You can't live the life you want to live if you're living with your mama. It's the moral of the story.

• 39:08Fred Taylor?

  But this is an opportunity for Tommy, though, to kind of save some bucks. I'm sure, was he drafted? Was he a high-round pick or mid-round pick?

• 39:15Channing Crowder?

  Frank, we can all save some bucks.

• 39:17Fred Taylor?

  Bro, I mean, what, you could take her. We don't know his situation. We don't know his situation. Maybe to trade off his mom. I paid the rent, I got the crib. You keep doing your thing. This makes me think of Caleb Williams after the loss to Washington. When he was, you know, cuddled in his mom's arms. What if he lives with his mom?

• 39:38Ryan Clark?

  Caleb Williams' mother.

• 39:39Fred Taylor?

  They're probably the same age.

• 39:40Ryan Clark?

  Caleb Williams' mother is going to live with him though.

• 39:43Fred Taylor?

  What's the big difference?

• 39:44Channing Crowder?

  Bro, you got a grown man.

• 39:45Fred Taylor?

  New York ain't cheap, brother. That man probably can't afford no apartment in New York, man. Tommy, I'm with you, brother.

• 39:51Channing Crowder?

  You're a grown ass man, Fred.

• 39:52Fred Taylor?

  Cheer with your mom as long as you want. Just don't invite Draymond Green over there.

• 39:56Channing Crowder?

  You're a grown man and you're, you know what? He's probably in the, what, top 10% of earners in the United States. No matter what his NFL salary is. 600,000, whatever the league minimum is. It was 237 when I got in league. Right now, the league minimum is like 600,000.

• 40:11Ryan Clark?

  Yes, it's higher.

• 40:13Channing Crowder?

  How you gonna live with your damn mama, Fred?

• 40:15Fred Taylor?

  So what's the difference in you?

• 40:17Channing Crowder?

  What's the difference?

• 40:18Fred Taylor?

  What's the difference in the Twitter people who are talking about karma? And the comments you making right now?

• 40:22Ryan Clark?

  That's totally different, Fred.

• 40:23Channing Crowder?

  What's the difference, Fred?

• 40:24Fred Taylor?

  No, I understand.

• 40:25Ryan Clark?

  Those things are not the same.

• 40:26Channing Crowder?

  I'm saying, you're a grown up, grow up.

• 40:28Fred Taylor?

  But he's making a comment about this man's living arrangements. Much like they're making comments about why Deshaun is going through what he's going through.

• 40:36Channing Crowder?

  No, they're saying that.

• 40:37Fred Taylor?

  I'm talking about the man, you don't know the guy.

• 40:39Ryan Clark?

  He's not saying, he's not saying that.

• 40:41Channing Crowder?

  I know he makes too much money to live with his damn mama.

• 40:43Fred Taylor?

  How do you know that?

• 40:44Channing Crowder?

  I know because there's people that make 23, what's the, I think the national average salary?

• 40:48Fred Taylor?

  It's 600K.

• 40:49Channing Crowder?

  That's Fred.

• 40:50Fred Taylor?

  That's 300K.

• 40:50Channing Crowder?

  The national average salary is under $30,000 a year or something like that.

• 40:55Fred Taylor?

  And for that same.

• 40:56Channing Crowder?

  He's making $600,000 and he living with his damn mama?

• 40:58Fred Taylor?

  300,000 after taxes. He's in New York City. They eating him up. Fucking $3,000 for a closet that the chick ran into at your mama, your mama rental Airbnb, whatever that was.

• 41:11Channing Crowder?

  He threw that right at him.

• 41:12Fred Taylor?

  Let that man, Tommy, do your thing, Tommy.

• 41:15Channing Crowder?

  He shouldn't live with his parents.

• 41:16Ryan Clark?

  I will say this though, I will say. It's not about what he should do.

• 41:19Fred Taylor?

  Might be a one-year plan.

• 41:19Ryan Clark?

  It's not about what he should do or can't do.

• 41:21Channing Crowder?

  He got a plan to get his ass out his mama's house.

• 41:22Ryan Clark?

  I understand Fred's point that from a financial and economical mindset, it's smart. Like you save money, you get to live with your mom, like all of those things. I think. If you're bawling and you're doing that, I probably have no issue with you. Now, it could just be that Tommy DeVito, which I think it is, Tommy DeVito is just not good at football. And so in not being good at football, right? It doesn't matter where he lives. He can live in a freaking mansion and still, he will still be terrible.

• 41:56Channing Crowder?

  He know this shit bout to come to him.

• 41:57Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, so for him, his thought is, but no, like for real.

• 42:01Channing Crowder?

  No, no, no. I'm talking about him.

• 42:03Ryan Clark?

  And also too, what happens is though, like honestly, like if Tommy DeVito was bawling, you wouldn't even trip. But the fact that he's not, makes you say as like an adult man, that's 34, 35 at the time, when I was a veteran, I'd have been like, it's because you live with your mom, which is not true, right? Because he's not good.

• 42:20Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I'm telling you.

• 42:21Ryan Clark?

  But you would feel that way. And then he is talking about Draymond Green. The whole world mad at Draymond Green now. Because Draymond Green choked up Rudy Gobert.

• 42:29Channing Crowder?

  Before we get to Draymond, I would just ask, if it's that smart, if it's that smart, right? Why do both of y'all live in malls?

• 42:38Ryan Clark?

  No, I...

• 42:39Channing Crowder?

  Why do both of y'all... Fred, no, it's so smart. Get you an apartment, Fred. It's smart.

• 42:45Fred Taylor?

  Look up, look up. My ceiling don't look like your ceiling.

• 42:49Channing Crowder?

  I'm just saying. We just get through like, it's not smart. You live, you live to the means that you have. A man shouldn't live with his mama when he got a good job.

• 42:57Ryan Clark?

  I'm gonna say this. Everybody should make a decision about where they want to live based on themselves. If they want to live with their mother, fine, live with your mom. If you don't, I don't care. It's up to you. Hey, man, it's the holidays. And the holidays could be rough for a lot of people. We've experienced loss ourselves as a family here on the pivot recently. But BetterHelp.com is a place where you can go and talk to people and get the sort of therapy and help that you need. I know during this time, it can be very tough. A lot of people don't want to go out to get therapy or talk to someone, and this could be a way you can do it.

• 43:32Channing Crowder?

  And that's the thing, bro. You gotta take care of yourself. Everybody, everybody wants to say, you know, there's a problem. Find a solution, find an answer. And that's what you have to do is see that as men. Men want to be all testosterone filled and all that. No, find an answer and BetterHelp can be that answer for you.

• 43:51Fred Taylor?

  BetterHelp.com is a place you can go, RC. But you ain't gotta go nowhere. I love it because you can do it from your home. You know, you don't have to check in. You can just do it right here from your home at your leisure, whenever you're ready. And then you can take care of yourself. It's about self-care. That's the most important part.

• 44:07Ryan Clark?

  It's about self-care and that's what makes it amazing that this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.com. We understand what the holidays can be. So right now, if you go to BetterHelp.com/ToPivot, you get 10% off. That's better H E L P dot com slash To Pivot. Back to the episode. Everybody's mad at Draymond Green. Early on this week, Klay Thompson got into a little tussle, right? Against the Timberwolves. Rudy Gobert runs up to the tussle. Then we see Draymond get old boy choked up like Jody. Jody say, "Mama!" He say, "Call your mama." That's it, "Call your mama." Remember, he choked Jody up?

• 44:48Ryan Clark?

  Hey, why he snuck up on, why Big Rimes snuck up on Jody like that from behind the couch though? Hey, hey, he said, "Mama!" And he had a, so, so Draymond.

• 45:00Channing Crowder?

  Did you see what he did to his mama earlier?

• 45:02Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 45:02Channing Crowder?

  Okay.

• 45:03Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, he was hopping around the house with her. Yeah, I don't like that. Not my mama. Not my mama.

• 45:08Channing Crowder?

  I used that move.

• 45:09Ryan Clark?

  My mama don't do things like that.

• 45:11Channing Crowder?

  Now, that's uncomfortable now, RC.

• 45:13Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I'm just saying she don't. She's a church-going. My mom's a church-going woman.

• 45:16Channing Crowder?

  You don't really know.

• 45:17Fred Taylor?

  See Mike in the kitchen?

• 45:18Ryan Clark?

  Stop it, stop it. Okay? Hey, guys, hey, guys. Stop it.

• 45:25Fred Taylor?

  What are you talking about? Turkey sausage.

• 45:27Channing Crowder?

  RC, you don't really know.

• 45:29Ryan Clark?

  Hey.

• 45:29Fred Taylor?

  Oh, boy.

• 45:30Ryan Clark?

  Back to Draymond, all right? So, there is, the fallout about Draymond is, right?

• 45:37Ryan Clark?

  And so, like, Acho is my guy, so I can say Acho. Acho tweeted, he was like, "Man, Draymond feels, I feel like Draymond is always trying to prove he's a tough guy."

• 45:45Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 45:46Ryan Clark?

  Rudy Gobert was just going over to break the fight and break up the fight and, you know, Draymond choked him up, when nobody's actually questioning Draymond's toughness. When you look at that situation, do you feel Draymond was wrong for choking Rudy Gobert?

• 46:05Channing Crowder?

  Not at all. You establish yourself, I use a guy that we've had on the show, UD. Like, you establish yourself as the, I don't even know what you want to call it, not the bully, whatever, the enforcer, the protector, whatever you want to say, where, when UD was balling, and UD had years that, that first championship.

• 46:25Ryan Clark?

  Very good player.

• 46:26Channing Crowder?

  A very good player, but he always had that edge. So now, I think you stay around, I think UD stayed around with that edge. UD stayed around because he was the enforcer, where you even see when he wasn't playing as much, and, um, what's the little boy with the big, heavy tongue? Lance Stevenson. When he got heavy tongue, and he had to walk off the bench to tell heavy tongue, he was like, "Man, I F you up." Like, that, that is the role. Boy, you know Lance got a heavy ass tongue. His tongue, he got three tongues in one mouth.

• 46:59Ryan Clark?

  Fuck, man, stop.

• 47:01Channing Crowder?

  But, like, but UD, to the point about what, what, what Draymond, I would say is becoming, when you establish yourself as the enforcer, as the, as the protector of the team, you have to continue that, and Draymond's doing it. I have no problem with Draymond. Draymond goes overboard, his, his theatrics get me sometimes, because what he does, and then when he gets kicked out of games, he does all the running around and the kissing the crowd and all, like, that gets to me, but I understand what Draymond's doing, because I saw it at a, at a lesser effect, and a lesser theatrical effect where Udonis has them.

• 47:34Fred Taylor?

  There's ways to be an enforcer without choking people. He can run up there and do this. If people respect you around the league, you can just run up. Chill out, bro. You know what I'm saying? That's if people respect you. Why do you always feel a need to have to use that sort of excessive force? To choke somebody, bro, did you see the head? He choked the man. Freddie, the theatrics. He dragged him down to the ground. When Rudy was just kind of went over there, maybe to do what Draymond should have done. But to jump on his back, he flew, he jumped on his back. To drug him all the way down to the baseline. Bro, that's excessive. And then the night before, two nights before, he had words with the young boy, with Anthony Edwards.

• 48:17Ryan Clark?

  Yeah. And say, what, nobody worried about that?

• 48:19Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, he said, ain't nobody worried about it. So, yes, Draymond's tough. We know that. We know you explore your role and you play the hell out of it. We know that. Right? And that team probably needs it because the rest of those guys are light-skinned. And they need a little toughness. Draymond, if nothing else, very good basketball player. Made a ton of money, is an amazing role player, he's a champion. And he's also gonna have a second career with UFC when he's done.

• 48:49Ryan Clark?

  No, he can't fight for real like that.

• 48:50Fred Taylor?

  Theatrics. I was like, see?

• 48:51Ryan Clark?

  So I'm gonna say this. I'm gonna say this, and I'm always on the other side, right? I have been treated like the guy that wants to do too much and that has to prove himself tough or whatever. So, I get it. I don't have an opinion about whether or not it was excessive based on what Rudy Gobert walked over to do. Because I'm gonna say this, I don't know what Rudy Gobert walked over to do. I know what he was doing at the time wasn't excessive, but I don't know what could be his next move. Y'all met my dad. My dad told me at a young age, and he always said this. If your homeboy is fighting, never grab your homeboy.

• 49:32Ryan Clark?

  He was like, because while you got him, you giving somebody an opportunity to punch your homeboy, harm your friend in a way that now he's restrained. He said, "You never touch your guy." That was the first thing. I'm gonna say this. If I'm a Golden State Warrior, if I'm Draymond Green's friend, any of those things, you did exactly what you were supposed to do, based on who I've known you to be. If at our practice, you could punch Jordan Poole in the face, you damn right you better choke Rudy Gobert. Right? Because the guy that was in my color, in our color, because y'all were having words or having altercation, you damn near slid him through a wall. So if me, your boy, your friend,

• 50:17Ryan Clark?

  your teammate, the dude that won championships with you, if I'm getting into it with somebody, I want to see you use as excessive of force as you can use, without getting suspended or fined, every single time. If you treat people in your house a certain way, if every time, if you my brother, and every time you say something slick, I'm like, "Man, shut the F up." I better get that same energy outside the house. My mama told me a long time ago, "You do not treat people outside this house better than you treat people in it." And that wasn't to say, "Go outside and mistreat people outside the house." It was to say, "Treat the people in here better." Right? Treat them better. And then when you go out the house, carry on that treatment and respect

• 51:00Ryan Clark?

  and kindness and decency for people out there. But, if you gonna be a turd in this motherfucker, I want you to be a turd everywhere. So damn right, Draymond did the right thing. And not the right thing in the sense that he couldn't have handled it a different way. The right thing in the sense that the rest of your life don't be handled that way. So I don't want you to get soft now. I don't want you to run up on Rudy Gobert, "Oh, my God. People are gonna think certain things about me. I might get suspended. I might get kicked out the game." Well, get kicked out the game. Because when you punched Jordan Poole in the face, you wasn't worried about what that did to him, what that did to our team. So don't worry about Rudy Gobert. And y'all owe him anyway for touching on all the mics and all that stuff in 2020.

• 51:39Channing Crowder?

  Mm-hmm. And the one thing too, RC, you talking about life lessons about, "Don't grab your friend." I agree with that. We've talked about that before. Do not grab your friend in the fight. The other thing, when you walk into a situation,

• 51:49Ryan Clark?

  Chad.

• 51:50Channing Crowder?

  I always sigh.

• 51:51Ryan Clark?

  What's in your chair?

• 51:52Channing Crowder?

  What's that?

• 51:53Ryan Clark?

  I'm bleeding.

• 51:54Channing Crowder?

  What's that back there?

• 51:55Ryan Clark?

  I went to get my phone and... Um, what the, Chan?

• 52:00Channing Crowder?

  You anemic. You bleed easy. Your skin is thin.

• 52:04Ryan Clark?

  I'm not anemic. I got a single cell trait.

• 52:06Channing Crowder?

  You're like an old one. You know, old people bleed easy.

• 52:09Ryan Clark?

  So now I bleed easy?

• 52:11Channing Crowder?

  You bleed easy.

• 52:11Ryan Clark?

  Because your couch cut.

• 52:12Channing Crowder?

  Your body is weak. And you just put it in your mouth.

• 52:17Channing Crowder?

  Quickly.

• 52:19Channing Crowder?

  I was gonna tell you, always size up the room you're in. When you walk into, every time the restaurant I walk into, I make sure I know the biggest [BLEEP] in the restaurant, so I know if a fight break out, the dude I gotta hit first. And I think that's what Draymond did. You bloody little bastard. Don't put that on my stuff.

• 52:35Ryan Clark?

  I didn't.

• 52:36Channing Crowder?

  Man, that chair is expensive.

• 52:37Ryan Clark?

  I'm not, man. I'm just bleeding.

• 52:40Channing Crowder?

  That chair is expensive.

• 52:43Ryan Clark?

  Your chair cut me.

• 52:44Channing Crowder?

  You see them little metal buttons?

• 52:45Ryan Clark?

  Hey, excuse me, HR. I'd like to report an injury.

• 52:50Channing Crowder?

  You brought that on yourself?

• 52:51Ryan Clark?

  Well, HR sucks.

• 52:53Channing Crowder?

  You brought that on yourself?

• 52:54Ryan Clark?

  HR, absolutely. But I do think, man, that like, a lot of times, we see certain things in the tunnel.

• 53:04Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 53:04Ryan Clark?

  You know what I mean? Like, you see them in this tunnel of, you have to behave this way all the time, where I do think everything is based off of our individual actions. And it's not to mean that because Draymond did what he did to Jordan Poole, you can hand it to me, brother. Thank you, my dog. And it's not to mean that because Draymond did what he did to Jordan Poole, he should just continue fighting people the rest of his life. Right? Like, it doesn't mean because, you know, you did one bad thing, you have to continue doing things the other. Within the spectrum of being a Golden State Warrior, I don't believe he gets to change that. I don't believe he now gets to be soft, or he now gets to be, and it's not soft, he now gets to be cautious.

• 53:49Ryan Clark?

  When Klay Thompson, somebody that has done as much as he has with you, and much as he has for you, is getting into it, and now he's being surrounded by the other team. Because I think in the end, it's just the people just start treating you like Will Smith. Right? Like, because of like how Jada has treated Will Smith, everybody just feel like you can come out and say whatever you want about the man. You know, now they got the man with Dwayne Martin.

• 54:14Channing Crowder?

  I don't even, I don't, I don't even know what's going on there.

• 54:19Channing Crowder?

  I heard that story.

• 54:20Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, but I think though, that's the thing though, man. Like, once people, once people take you for soft, or once people start to see you as the punching bag, now we give everybody a platform to say whatever they want about anybody. And I think that's the thing we have to be really cautious of here, is like, not letting people come on our show with an agenda to tear somebody else down.

• 54:44Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:45Ryan Clark?

  You know, I think that's extremely important. And I feel like, you know, we've upheld that. But, Chan, I'm done, man, because I'm injured. You got a Band-Aid?

• 54:53Channing Crowder?

  You got weak. I don't know, no benefit for you.

• 54:55Fred Taylor?

  Did the Diggs brothers get hacked over the weekend?

• 54:58Channing Crowder?

  What was that?

• 54:59Fred Taylor?

  Because they was tweeting and posting and Stefan gonna be...

• 55:02Channing Crowder?

  They was with it.

• 55:02Ryan Clark?

  I don't think, I don't think that thing you said, Fred, was like an actual Stefan.

• 55:07Fred Taylor?

  That's what I was wondering.

• 55:08Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, that's not a...

• 55:08Fred Taylor?

  Was it a photo?

• 55:09Channing Crowder?

  You got clotting problems?

• 55:11Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 55:12Channing Crowder?

  Your blood, your blood doesn't clot?

• 55:14Ryan Clark?

  It's part of having the sickle cell trait.

• 55:18Ryan Clark?

  Chan, like, what is...

• 55:22Ryan Clark?

  Are you really done? Yeah, I'm done. I'm done because...

• 55:26Channing Crowder?

  No, he's fine.

• 55:27Ryan Clark?

  I need a Band-Aid, Asia. Thank you, Asia.

• 55:30Channing Crowder?

  He's fine.

• 55:30Ryan Clark?

  I don't need no Prozac. It ain't that big.

• 55:32Channing Crowder?

  What happened? I don't know what came back there, for real. I'm bullshit. I'm bullshit for sure.

• 55:35Ryan Clark?

  I know, I know. That's good, I know.

• 55:36Channing Crowder?

  Something came back there, man?

• 55:37Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, no, no, no. I think, I must have, I think I hit it on like, a little like metal piece on that thing.

• 55:43Ryan Clark?

  It really, really made me bleed, so...

• 56:09Speaker 06

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 56:14Speaker 07

  We go V.

• 56:17Speaker 06

  We go V. Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Somemagnolite injection, 2.4mg a GLP-1. Call 1-8334-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?