Mini Episode 3: A Spy's Guide To... Sofia

THE BLURB: In this episode, we preview a new podcast series that we'll start dropping in Spring 2026 - "A Spy's Guide To" which will look at the great cities of the world (and the not-so-great) entirely from the perspective of spies and spying. It'll be like a travel guide for spooks. Since spies have to live in these cities (in addition to working them), we'll approach and appreciate our first city guide - to SOFIA, BULGARIA - as we will all of these cities - like a spy would. A City is a place to recruit agents, locate safe houses and begin collecting secrets. SHOW NOTES For more great podcasts like Dead Drop, please visit https://costardandtouchstone.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hey, it's Adam Grant from TED's Rethinking Podcast. As businesses scale, success depends on how well knowledge is captured, shared, and kept up to date. Camtasia Pro turns teams' expertise into engaging training, onboarding, and documentation. No professional editing experience required. With the industry's best screen recording, video editing, and AI-powered workflows, you can train faster and boost operational efficiency. Get over $100 off your first year at camtasia pro.com and start building a smarter way to educate customers, onboard employees, and ensure valuable expertise is shared across teams.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  With a Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to discover. Terms apply. See discover.com/five for details.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet, like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone, and including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage, HMO, and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 1:30Speaker 03

  This podcast, it's a Coster and Touchstone production.

• 1:40John Kiriakou?

  Welcome to Dead Drop. I'm John Kiriakou, and always, thank you for joining us. In this mini-episode, we'll be previewing a brand-new podcast series that we're going to start dropping in the spring of 2026. It's called A Spy's Guide 2, and the things we'll be guiding you to are the great cities of the world, but from a spy's perspective. Tourists see a city one way, locals see it quite another. Spies, on the other hand, we see a city or a town Or any place, really, in a way that's entirely unique to it and to us. Of course, spies gotta eat and spies gotta sleep, so our spy guides will appreciate each city's livability.

• 2:23John Kiriakou?

  Spies like to be entertained, too, and plenty of us want all the local culture we can get. So that's also a part of the Spies Guide 2 calculus. But from a spy's POV, a city is a workplace, filled with potential agents to recruit, safe houses to suss out, and clandestine rendezvous to choreograph. Some cities have been home to spies and spying forever, while others are a little newer to the game. Of course, we'll cover the obvious: cities like London, Vienna, New York, Washington DC, Moscow, Jerusalem. We'll cover less obvious places, too. Think Miami, Brussels, Berlin, Beirut, Amsterdam, and Beijing.

• 3:03John Kiriakou?

  And we'll cover what are perhaps entirely unexpected places, like the city I'm gonna tell you about in this episode. So, without any further ado, welcome to A Spy's Guide to Sofia, Bulgaria.

• 3:20John Kiriakou?

  When I was stationed in Athens, one of the things that I loved about my job was the accompanying analysis that went with planning for operations.

• 3:32John Kiriakou?

  I was an analyst at heart. I loved doing deep dives into these terrorism issues. And I really loved going through the old, yellowed files from the 1970s, from the Dick Welch era. Well, I was going through one of those old, weathered, yellowed files, and I found an FBI course evaluation form from a class that the FBI had offered to foreign intelligence officers just after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. They took a whole bunch of Eastern European intelligence and military leaders, generals, and they took them down to Fort Polk, Louisiana,

• 4:13John Kiriakou?

  and taught them shooting and driving and just fun things. So I found this course evaluation form and it was signed by a Bulgarian general. And he said how much he appreciated the course, how much he loved the course, and that he would be very pleased to accept another invitation to a different course. And nobody ever talked to him again. And I thought, my God, why in the world would they just let this guy go? Well, the reason why he was in the file in the first place was that back in 1991, when he submitted this course evaluation form, an alert analyst at the CIA said, wait a minute, I know this general's name.

• 4:57John Kiriakou?

  This general was a major in 1975. He was the Bulgarian Defense Attache in Athens in 1975. And on the night that Dick Welch was assassinated, December 23rd, 1975, he was walking his dog one block away. No one had ever bothered to ask him, did you see the getaway car? Did you hear the shots? Did you hear a scream? Anything? Do you have any memory of that night? You must, because it was in every newspaper in the world the next day. So I went to my boss in Athens and I said, listen, I know that this is a long shot, but there's this Bulgarian guy.

• 5:42John Kiriakou?

  I don't even know if he's still alive. But he was one block away when Dick Welch was assassinated. He's pro-US. He's been to the US for training courses. I'd like to go to Bulgaria and just talk to him and see if he remembers anything from that night 25 years earlier. And he said, sure, send a cable to Bulgaria and ask if you can come up. So I sent a cable to Bulgaria and our man in Bulgaria said, sure, you're welcome to come up, but I'm not paying for it because I don't care about this issue. My boss said, fine, we'll pay for it. Go ahead and do your thing. So I flew up to Bulgaria.

• 6:23John Kiriakou?

  I found him working as a security officer in a bank. And I knocked on the door. I introduced myself.

• 6:32John Kiriakou?

  And I said, I'd like to invite him for a cup of coffee and just talk about December 23rd, 1975. He didn't remember anything that necessarily advanced the investigation, but he was willing to be debriefed. He was a Bulgarian patriot and he said, "Look, I'm going to report this contact to my service. It's my patriotic duty." I said, "Absolutely, go right ahead and do it. My agency is working with your former agency. It's all on the up and up and public and friendly." There was no espionage involved. This was just a friendly cup of coffee, just to see if you can remember one night from 25 years ago.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  With a Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to discover. Terms apply. See discover.com/five for details.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  Network freedom and flexibility, that's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 8:10John Kiriakou?

  But I went up to Bulgaria at least a half a dozen times over the next year to meet with him. And I got to know Sofia, Bulgaria. I got to know it very well. Sofia has become one of my favorite cities in the world. It's unusual for a couple of reasons. It's the only capital in Europe that's not built on a river. There's no river. It was the site of an ancient civilization, an ancient Greek civilization. In fact, there was a coffee shop that I was fond of going to, just off campus of the University of Sofia, where their Greek column... Just coming out of the ground and they've set up tables and chairs and they come and serve you your coffee. And you're sitting amongst these twenty-five-hundred-year-old ruins.

• 8:51John Kiriakou?

  Just fascinating. Another thing that I really loved about Sofia was there's an enormous Bulgarian Orthodox cathedral in the center of the city called the Saint Alexander Nevsky Cathedral. Saint Alexander Nevsky was a Russian prince who is now the patron saint of Bulgaria. He's venerated and loved by all Bulgarians. The cathedral is magnificent, but even more importantly is seven days a week, there's an art market in front of the cathedral. And so I was an avid fan of contemporary Bulgarian art and antiques and jewelry. I even found a Soviet Academy Award for sale there, which I bought.

• 9:33John Kiriakou?

  And I'll tell you how I know it's an Academy Award because I was taking a tour of Francis Ford Coppola's winery in Napa, California. And he has a little museum to himself. And he has a Soviet Academy Award for the Russian language release of The Godfather. Years and years later, in 2015, when I won the PEN USA First Amendment Award, he won the PEN USA Lifetime Achievement Award and we were talking and I said, "You know, I've got this statue that's identical to the one that you have in your little museum." And he said, "Oh, that's a Soviet Academy Award from the Soviet Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences." They gave it to me for the Russian language version of The Godfather.

• 10:14John Kiriakou?

  So anyway, I was going to Bulgaria so much that I really got to know the city. And I would do very sophisticated surveillance detection routes. Part on foot, part on the subway, part on a tram, on a bus. Once I had a rental car prepositioned in a parking garage and I walked in and drove out. I would just do it for fun. I knew I wasn't being followed in Bulgaria. And I was never followed in Bulgaria, but it was fun to really get the feel of a city like this. One trip up there, I flew up to meet with the general. He said, "Let's not meet in the city this time. Pick me up and let's meet at a hunting lodge about an hour outside of town. It's in the mountains.

• 10:59John Kiriakou?

  He said, "It's very rustic, all dark wood, roaring fireplaces, and they have wild boar and venison on the menu." And I said, "That sounds like a great idea." So we went up there and I ordered wild boar, which I actually quite like. I also ordered, and I would never order an alcoholic drink, just because I wanted to remain sharp. That night, I ordered an uzo in orange juice. My grandmother used to drink uzo in orange juice. Normally, a Greek won't mix orange juice with their uzo. Normally, you add just a little bit of water. I prefer it straight. With orange juice, it gives it this very fresh, very refreshing taste. So I order an uzo in orange juice.

• 11:43John Kiriakou?

  And we have a terrific dinner. Couple of months later, I go back up there and I said, "You know, general, I've been thinking about that wild boar ever since we went up there. I loved the place, I loved the setting, the view from the top of the mountain was gorgeous. All you can see is thick forest as far as the eye can see. Let's go back up there. This time, I'm going to try the venison." So we drive, did a little SDR in town, and once we hit the highway, straight to the hunting lodge. And we get up there and I ordered the venison, he ordered the boar that time, and I said, "And how about a, uh, how about an uzo in orange juice?" And the waitress says, "I remember you." And I said, "No, I don't think we've met."

• 12:27John Kiriakou?

  She said, "Yeah, you were here two months ago, and I remember that because you are the only person that I've ever waited on who ordered an uzo in orange juice." And I said, "Ha, ha, ha, okay, you got me." She walks away and he says, "That's unfortunate. We can never come here again." And we never did. I was noticed. And being noticed is sort of the kiss of death for a spy.

• 12:56John Kiriakou?

  Sofia was such a special place. Having been under the communist yoke for so many years, behind the iron curtain, it was virtually untouched. So, most of the city, most of what you're gonna wanna look at in the city, was built in the mid to the late 19th century. Beautiful, small hotels, which are now boutique hotels, the big cathedrals, which are from the 18th century, the smaller Orthodox churches. And then on the outskirts of town, it was all just hideous, concrete block Soviet apartment buildings. The center of the city was stunning. And one of the great things about being there at that time

• 13:38John Kiriakou?

  was the CIA changed its internal regulations regarding per diem. Per diem is broken into two parts: hotel and meals and incidental. For Sofia, like in any other city in the world, it's based on the average five-star hotel. Well, there was only one five-star hotel. It used to be the Communist Party headquarters, and it's now the Sheraton. Lovely place, absolutely enormous, it probably has 2,000 rooms, takes up an entire city block. I didn't like staying at the Sheraton. In the bar, it's all just prostitutes, and I just wanted to be left alone. I also preferred, and this was the new rule, whatever you didn't spend, you could put in your pocket. And the old rule was, whatever you didn't spend,

• 14:22John Kiriakou?

  you had to return to Uncle Sam. So instead of staying at the Sheraton for $300 a night, I would stay at the Hotel Rila, which doubled as a whorehouse for $16 a night. I would eat all of my meals at the Pizza Troll Pizza Cafe for another $10 a day, and put the other $350 in my pocket. But then I would spend that at the art market in front of the Cathedral of Saint Alexander Nevsky. I didn't really accomplish anything espionage-wise, just because there was nothing to accomplish. But my god, I enjoyed Sofia, Bulgaria, and I was able to sort of stretch my legs and exercise my spy craft without the threat of a hostile power watching me.

• 15:11John Kiriakou?

  As I said, we'll start dropping episodes of A Spy's Guide to in spring of 2026, which is actually just around the corner. If you subscribe to this podcast, you'll be in the loop as details emerge. As always, we can't thank you enough for listening, but if you don't mind, it really does help the podcast thrive and reach more listeners if you rate, review, leave a comment about, or like the podcast on the platform where you're listening. In the next episode, we'll continue the story of what makes this spy tick. We're getting to the part of the story where the nitty really does get gritty. Until then, I'm John Kiriakou. Dead Drop is written by John Kiriakou and Alan Katz. Costart and Touchstone Productions

• 15:53John Kiriakou?

  produces the podcast, and John Kiriakou, Alan Katz, and Nick Mechanic are its executive producers.

• 16:04Speaker 03

  This podcast, it's a Costart and Touchstone production.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  With a Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to discover. Terms apply. See discover.com/five for details.

• 16:34Speaker 02

  Network freedom and flexibility, that's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to build Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.