Chelsea Handler on Men, Trump & Money (+ Excellent Parenting Advice)

From spiking her childhood lemonade stand drinks with vodka to launching Netflix's first talk show, Chelsea Handler has always had an entrepreneurial instinct. Case in point: the comedian’s new book, “I’ll Have What She’s Having” is her sixth to top the New York Times best-seller list. Chelsea joined Kara onstage at SXSW to share her juiciest stories from the book (including the joke that made Woody Allen literally spit out his desert), offer her unfiltered takes on President Trump and Elon Musk, break down the problem with men, and reveal how she became a “father” to her ex-boyfriend’s three daughters. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on Bluesky, Instagram, and TikTok @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:12Kara Swisher?

  Hi, everyone. From New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network, this is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is the comedian and seven-time bestselling author Chelsea Handler. She has a new Netflix special titled "The Feeling" that comes out March 25th, and she recently released a new book called "I'll Have What She's Having." It was published on her 50th birthday, and fittingly, it's a collection of essays that chronicle her journey to becoming the woman she always wanted to be, or as she puts it, "a beautiful hurricane." I found the book very funny and full of really interesting lessons. I love talking to Chelsea, not just because she's hilarious, but she's also politically engaged and a savvy entrepreneur who's been very successful in streaming, podcasting, publishing, and touring.

• 0:56Kara Swisher?

  I spoke to her last Sunday on the Vox Media Podcast stage at South by Southwest, and we got into all of it: her new book, Politics and the Business of Being, Chelsea Handler. I also told her she needs to date Elon Musk in order to save us from this nightmare. She declined. Unsurprisingly, it was a great conversation, so stick around.

• 1:30Speaker 01

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• 2:53Speaker 03

  Yay.

• 2:54Kara Swisher?

  Yay, we're here. Finally, the only person I really know. I had a great time with Elizabeth Warren yesterday, but I'm super excited.

• 3:01Speaker 03

  I'm jealous that I wasn't here for that.

• 3:03Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, she was great. She was great.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  I love Elizabeth Warren.

• 3:06Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, she's fantastic. So Chelsea, thanks for joining me in this conversation on Vox Media Podcast Stage at South by Southwest, presented by Smarcheat. Let's, let's start with your book, which is number one on the New York Times Bestseller List. It debuted.

• 3:20Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 3:22Kara Swisher?

  Why do you think that is? Why do you, you know, there's a lot of right wing books up there. There's a lot of stuff like that. Why, I know, but why do you think you got to number one?

• 3:30Speaker 03

  I don't know why I got to number one. I have a pretty good track record of getting to number one.

• 3:36Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 3:36Speaker 03

  So this is my sixth number one New York Times Bestseller. And thank you so much. I'm very, every time, I was just telling Cara backstage, it just never gets old to get that phone call that you're number one on the New York Times list. And I'm from a family of six children. I'm the only one who didn't go to college. So I love calling my brothers and sisters and congratulating them on their wasted efforts in college. And that I was right all along. I was the youngest of six and I would tell them, you guys stick with me, I will show you the way.

• 4:04Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 4:05Speaker 03

  This, I will take this family to the next level. And now they know that I was fucking right.

• 4:09Kara Swisher?

  That's right. That's right, which you write about a lot in this book. But you started the book with a quote, "To have and not to give is worse than to steal." Why was that the quote?

• 4:20Speaker 03

  Because I really appreciate generosity, my own generosity, the generosity that my mother instilled in me, and I think the world obviously could use a lot more of it now. And it's very important to share everything you have, including your stage, your time, whatever you have to give, give it. And give it, you know, and are you, and when you're done giving, are you sure that's all you have to give? Because I could bet you, you can find more to give. And it's, it's the world that we're living in, we need, we need more of that. And I want generosity of spirit, I want to demonstrate it, I want to display it, and I want to spread it.

• 4:54Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, excellent. So you also dedicated the book to stewardesses, and there's a great scene in the book-

• 5:01Speaker 03

  That's a very antiquated term, Cara.

• 5:02Kara Swisher?

  Yes, I'm sorry.

• 5:03Speaker 03

  They're called flight attendants, okay?

• 5:04Kara Swisher?

  I'm sorry.

• 5:05Speaker 03

  Please, get with the program. I know you're flying around privately, but try and remember, try and remember us small people, please.

• 5:13Kara Swisher?

  Flight attendants.

• 5:14Speaker 03

  Flight attendants.

• 5:15Kara Swisher?

  Mostly women, though, you did say, are the guys-

• 5:16Speaker 03

  They're mostly women, and then the men that are flight attendants are also our sisters.

• 5:20Kara Swisher?

  Okay, all right. So why did you dedicate it to them?

• 5:24Speaker 03

  I spend a lot of my time on flights, I'm sure many of us in this room do.

• 5:28Kara Swisher?

  I'm about to say you wanted to from the early time, you walked through first class and said, "These are my people."

• 5:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I wanted to spend my time in first class from a very young, early age. When I was on my first flight, I walked past the first class section, I was like, I sniffed around, I was like, "This seems like my group." And my mom was like, "This is not our group, you will never be able to fly first class, we can't afford that." And I was like, "Ah, speak for yourself."

• 5:50Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 5:51Speaker 03

  So, anyway, I do fly a lot, and for work, for whatever, I spend a lot of my time on planes, I wrote half this book on planes, and flight attendants have been through hell. People treat them terribly, and they need our respect, and they need our patience, they are stuck with us in the sky, and we need to be nicer to them.

• 6:11Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 6:11Speaker 03

  And, yeah, after COVID and all of those assholes-

• 6:14Kara Swisher?

  It's like white lotus in the sky.

• 6:15Speaker 03

  I mean, yeah, white lotus in the sky, right. You're stuck in a tube of disgusting air. Let's be sweet and generous and gracious to them, please.

• 6:24Kara Swisher?

  And you offered to beat people up.

• 6:25Speaker 03

  I will always be on a plane, I act as a flight attendant, yes.

• 6:29Kara Swisher?

  Yes, yeah.

• 6:29Speaker 03

  If there is a problem, or a nuisance, or someone needs to be removed, I'm your girl.

• 6:34Kara Swisher?

  Yeah. One of the reviews was, "A pleasingly unformulaic book of hard-won advice that never rings false." Do you like that review?

• 6:42Speaker 03

  Oh, I never heard it. Yeah, sure.

• 6:44Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 6:45Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 6:45Kara Swisher?

  Are you pleasingly unformulaic?

• 6:47Speaker 03

  I'm unformulaic, yeah. And if it's pleasing to you, that's your opinion. Yeah, I'm glad to be pleasing somebody. I just need to please a few people, not everybody.

• 6:57Kara Swisher?

  Who do you have to please?

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Just enough people to give me my career, you know, the fans. I want to please my fans, the people who've provided me with this life. But I'm not looking to please people. I'm not a people pleaser.

• 7:07Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 7:08Speaker 03

  I want people, I want to spread joy and sunshine, but I'm not trying to please you.

• 7:11Kara Swisher?

  Right, I can see that. So, explain how your father changed you. You've built a very deep and caring relationship with three girls whose dad you used to date. We just talked about it backstage. They called you father, and you write that one of the girls said to you, "Father is always with us, even when she's not." And you thought to yourself, "This is the single best sentence I ever heard in my life."

• 7:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:32Kara Swisher?

  Explain this story. I found it, I have a lot of kids, as you know.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  A lot of kids.

• 7:37Kara Swisher?

  And I was very upset by this story of you moving in there. Not that you did, I felt good that you did, but these kids had been kind of left alone by their parents, in a way.

• 7:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, their parents just kind of had kids, and they were career people, and they thought, "Well, these kids will be of the world." You know, like, they were kind of two people with huge careers that also had children, not people who had children who also had huge careers. Do you know what I mean?

• 7:59Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, I know.

• 7:59Speaker 03

  So the kids were kind of left by the wayside, and my ex-boyfriend and his relationship with his girls just hurt me. Like, it hurt my heart. And I'm from a family of three girls, three boys. And when I saw these girls, I recognized in them so many things I felt in my adolescent angst, and my, like, you know, the neglect, and the needing to be seen, and the feeling of being ignored, and how that, like, I related to that feeling so much that I just wrapped these girls up and became for them whatever I could be, which was like an inter- ...parent and they call me dad, well, they call me father because they have a dad. So they call, I'm father and he's dad. And he's very confused all the time. I was also very confused, but they are huge loves in my life. They still are.

• 8:43Speaker 03

  And I shared that in the book because people think that I don't have children, so I hate children.

• 8:47Kara Swisher?

  Well, you do have comedy about hating children.

• 8:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I want to be child free. I'm very excited that I've remained that way. And that I've remained single for as long as I've have. Like, I feel like now I'm free. I got out of that tunnel where those things could have happened. Like, I could have had a baby or gotten married, and I didn't. And now I feel like I'm 50 and I have the whole world ahead of me.

• 9:07Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 9:07Speaker 03

  Like, I've never been more excited to get through a test, you know? But these girls are very important people in my lives, and they are my children. I think of them, you know, I would do anything for them. So, yes, it was important for me to share that because when I'm, whenever I'm writing books, I'm like, what if? I'm so, you know, candid about my life. I'm not precious about my personal life or anything. I never want to be that way. And I'm not very private. So I'm like, what can I share that I haven't shared?

• 9:34Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, I was surprised by that.

• 9:35Speaker 03

  And I was like, oh, that was, that's something that people don't really know about. How many children are in my life? And how many children I really do care for and have in my...

• 9:43Kara Swisher?

  Like your nieces and nephews?

• 9:44Speaker 03

  Well, my nieces and nephews are one thing. They're related to me, but so many people outside that are not related to me, whose lives I'm able to make big contributions to because I am single and because I am child free. I have the bandwidth to help even more people than I would probably help if I only had my own family. And that's something that, you know, people don't talk about. When you are child free, it opens you up to really be helping the world in a bigger way. You can make other contributions. You know, your value comes from a multitude of things, not just being a mother or a wife. There are many other ways to contribute. So I'm glad so many women are having honest conversations about procreating and that it's not for everybody, because it's fucking not. You know, some people aren't good at that.

• 10:24Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 10:24Speaker 03

  So it's good to know.

• 10:25Kara Swisher?

  But you seem to be good.

• 10:26Speaker 03

  You, you... I'm good at helping out.

• 10:28Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 10:28Speaker 03

  You know, I'm good at being a big sister and helping push and making sure, picking people up. But I don't need to be a parent. You know, any dog of mine will tell you.

• 10:36Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 10:37Speaker 03

  But it is not...

• 10:37Kara Swisher?

  You seem like an excellent dog owner.

• 10:39Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, I have an excellent system in place. I'm not the best dog owner.

• 10:43Kara Swisher?

  Okay.

• 10:44Speaker 03

  I'm not the one doing all of the things, you know? And it's even for a dog. So imagine how I would show up for a real person.

• 10:51Kara Swisher?

  You do wear them on your back.

• 10:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I ski with them when I need to. And my bikini for my birthdays every year. So they're good for that.

• 10:58Kara Swisher?

  Where did you ski this year for that? Where did you do this year?

• 11:01Speaker 03

  I did that on Soldier Mountain in Idaho this year with like 25 women. I was like, get me 25, 50-year-old women and let's all ski together. So we took a little LSD and we all skied.

• 11:10Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, yeah. In bikinis?

• 11:13Speaker 03

  In bikinis, bathing suits, yes, yes. It was very joyful.

• 11:17Kara Swisher?

  Was it?

• 11:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 11:18Kara Swisher?

  I noticed you didn't invite me.

• 11:20Speaker 03

  It's very exhilarating.

• 11:21Kara Swisher?

  I can ski.

• 11:22Speaker 03

  You can ski?

• 11:23Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, I'm not skiing in a bikini.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  Why not?

• 11:25Kara Swisher?

  It's not for me. It's not.

• 11:27Speaker 03

  We're doing it in Palisades Tahoe Friday. We're doing it for Gold Bond. We're doing a ski event that was inspired by my birthday videos. We're gonna break the Guinness Book of World Records in Palisades Tahoe Friday, March 14th. And anyone can sign up, men, women, snowboarders, skiers. We're doing it.

• 11:43Kara Swisher?

  In bikinis?

• 11:45Speaker 03

  In bathing suits.

• 11:45Kara Swisher?

  Oh, good, that's great.

• 11:46Speaker 03

  Any bathing suit you want.

• 11:47Kara Swisher?

  Oh, interesting, okay. So, one of the things you said, the book is about female sisterhood togetherness. Let's stick together and be empowered by others. And you write, "The admonishment and disdain that comes in response to women's relationship with herself is a great reflection of how slow and unchanging our society is." Talk about that a little bit. You say what you want, you talk about loving drugs and alcohol, you ski topless, you never want to get married and have kids. You're essentially J.D. Vance's nightmare. Talk a little bit about what you're talking about here, the greatest reflection of how slow and unchanging society is.

• 12:22Speaker 03

  It's just like, men are upset that women don't, I mean, those types of men. I understand there are, you know, my type of men that understand why we would make that decision. But those types of men that want to keep women at home and being mothers and, you know, not having careers, like, that's just so antiquated and it's so slow and it's so boring. We're so bored. You know, I think the political situation we're in is a direct reflection of the fact that men are so scared of women. Like, why are you acting like this if they're not? Why would you overturn Roe v. Wade after the Me Too movement? You know, that was a direct correlation, in my opinion. I think that, and women aren't going anywhere. And men, the men that stand with us, aren't going anywhere. So this is a blip of really unfortunate history in our country. I can't believe we've had to go through, we're gonna have to go through this for a second

• 13:07Speaker 03

  time and probably worse. But I don't have any hope lost about the success of women and the contribution. Women are more powerful and more independent than we've ever been, and that isn't gonna change.

• 13:23Kara Swisher?

  Do you, what do you think of, you know, my, my other podcast partner Scott talks about the crisis of young men and men right now. Do you think they're in a crisis, or do you think about it at all?

• 13:32Speaker 03

  I do. I was on a plane yesterday with a really young, I think there's a new generation of young, this boy, he was on this plane, this 16-year-old boy, and he asked if he could put Tiger Balm on his knee if it would, the smell would bother any of us. And I was like, I wanna have sex with you. I know, I'm not having sex with a 16-year-old, but you know what I'm saying? When he was older, and when he gets older, maybe I do wanna have sex with him. But I, that was just a nice indication of how conscientious, and I'm noticing young men like that, when I'm talking to my friends' children, like, they're very engaging and they're more confident, and they're smarter than when we grew up. So I feel like this new generation, they're very, they're, you know, woke in the right way. They're not, it's not a cancerous woke where everyone's like, it's conscientious and they're

• 14:16Speaker 03

  compassionate and they, and so I'm very hopeful about our young people. I think they're, they're a lot smarter than we're giving them credit for.

• 14:22Kara Swisher?

  Agreed. Do you, what do you attribute attraction to Trump, though, with a lot of young voters?

• 14:28Speaker 03

  I, I don't understand the attraction to Trump with a lot of young voters. I don't know if that is the, I mean, I, I can't speak to that. I can only speak to the fact that we're gonna see, you know, this, how this all shakes out. People aren't going to be pleased with this when the next midterms come around. No one, Trump is not out for anybody but rich people, as we all know. So it's like, everyone who voted for him in the hopes of something else, or some aspirational hope of a better life, a better economy, you know, they're wrong. That's not gonna happen. The opposite's gonna happen. You know, the people who don't have money are gonna suffer even more. And so, I, you know, I, I don't know how to answer why anyone votes for Donald Trump. I don't get it.

• 15:13Kara Swisher?

  So, a lot of people didn't. Well, one of them was, was the idea of a better life, right? That the prices would be better, that there's more opportunity. And even though the economy was good, they didn't feel it.

• 15:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, but also, any economist will tell you that you're finding an economy, an economy hits like four to eight years after the first president. You know, Biden was working off of Trump's economy, and Trump is working off of Biden's economy. But people are so fucking stupid, they don't even understand that. I don't get it. It's so obvious. You don't implement things into the economy and it has an impact right away. To the stock market it does, but not to the economy. You know, those are, I mean, some things, but a lot of things take a lot longer.

• 15:51Kara Swisher?

  Talk a little about money, because the tax cuts will help people like yourself, right?

• 15:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't need the help. I'm happy to give my money to the people that need it.

• 15:59Kara Swisher?

  But when you, you talk in the book about, about your parents as a financial hurricane, and earning money is important to you. And you've done, you've done well all throughout your career in that, that way. When did you first realize the importance of understanding money for yourself? Because you, you discuss it in the book quite a bit.

• 16:18Speaker 03

  I mean, I don't know if I understand money, but it's nice to have. It helps, you know, it helps a lot. It's nice to be able to help other people with it. It's nice to be able to live a life that, you know, affords me the possibilities to see the world. Of course, I want to have a nice life. I like money. But seeing my parents struggle financially, we weren't poor, but we weren't wealthy. And I, you know, there were like phone bills would be, phones would be turned off, things like that, made me feel very insecure. And I definitely felt from a very young age that I wanted financial independence, and I never wanted to rely on a man or a partner for that. Now, I wouldn't mind a little help, come and glik some funds, you know? I'm like, I support a lot of people, so I'm like, can I get some, you know?

• 17:03Speaker 03

  Can I get another, you know, I'd like a double family income, but you know, that's hard to do if I don't want to get married. So, I take the responsibilities on, and then I have to hustle.

• 17:13Kara Swisher?

  I told her to take one from the team and date Elon Musk and bring him back.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm not that much of a teammate. I don't think I can do it. I mean, there's a lot I would do for this country, but having sex with Elon Musk is not one of them. I can't. I can't.

• 17:28Kara Swisher?

  It's just an idea.

• 17:29Speaker 03

  I would do so many other things, though, you know? For the country.

• 17:34Kara Swisher?

  Such as?

• 17:34Speaker 03

  I mean, I can't think of anything. You're the interviewer. You have to figure out what I'll say yes to and what I'll say no to, Kara.

• 17:40Kara Swisher?

  Well, I think that's a good idea.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  But I mean, Elon Musk is just one. That is above my pay grade.

• 17:45Kara Swisher?

  OK, he has a lot of money.

• 17:46Speaker 03

  I know, but that's not, I can't.

• 17:48Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 17:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:49Kara Swisher?

  All right, wow.

• 17:50Speaker 03

  But you should try it. You do it. Why don't you do it, Kara? Does anyone here want to do it?

• 17:58Kara Swisher?

  No. Wow, that's amazing.

• 17:59Speaker 03

  No.

• 18:00Kara Swisher?

  All right. So, one of the things, though, that in the book you are very ambitious from an early age. I love the scenes of you.

• 18:05Speaker 03

  Very vicious?

• 18:06Kara Swisher?

  No, no, no, ambitious.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  Ambitious, yes.

• 18:07Kara Swisher?

  Yes. Somewhat vicious, because you cut your sister or your brother off working for you on a lemonade.

• 18:13Speaker 03

  My sister, I fired her. I opened a lemonade stand. My sister wanted to partner with me on it. And then I realized, pretty quickly, lemonade was not going to be a big profit margin. So I opened up a hard lemonade stand, serving alcohol to the parents of the children, and then children who were 10. They could also get a drink. And then I made a lot of money.

• 18:32Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  And then I had to cut, I had to lean out my staff. So I cut my sister. And then I got, I hired another 10-year-old named Nelson, and he was my barback. He made the drinks. And in the first week, we were 10 years old. We made $359 at our hard lemonade stand. And I gave Nelson his commission, which was $3.59.

• 18:54Speaker 03

  And Nelson thought he had hit the jackpot. He's like, "Oh, my God." I said, "Stick with me, brother. I will show you the way." I haven't seen Nelson since that, since that lemonade stand. But, but I do now. With my book, in conjunction with my book, I partnered with this brand Owl's Brew, and I made my own Chelsea Handler's vodka lemonade. We have three flavors, and it's so delicious. So my dreams all came true.

• 19:14Kara Swisher?

  So you're still in the business.

• 19:15Speaker 03

  So I'm still in the lemonade business, yes.

• 19:34Speaker 01

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• 20:19Kara Swisher?

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• 21:02Kara Swisher?

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• 21:32Kara Swisher?

  So where does that entrepreneurial drive come from? Because you have been very entrepreneurial as a career compared to a lot of people.

• 21:39Speaker 03

  Yes, I'm very, I have a lot of authorship over what I do. I don't really like answering to people. And I've managed to carve out a career where I don't have to answer to a lot of people. Even when I did really have to answer to people, when I worked at companies, I didn't. You know what I mean?

• 21:57Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, oh, I know.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:58Kara Swisher?

  I'm aware.

• 21:59Speaker 03

  And everyone is aware of that, so...

• 22:01Kara Swisher?

  No, I'm aware. I'm the same one.

• 22:02Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, okay, good. I thought you were saying everyone knew about me. I'm like, I guess they probably did. But, no, I'm good at being my own manager. I mean, I have my podcasts, I have my books, I tour my stand-up, I have my residency in Vegas. I do everything the way I want to do it. I'm going on a European tour this year, like, my first in years. You know, once the election was announced, I'm like, I guess I'll go to Europe and spend some time apologizing to our allies, our European allies who we love so much. Thank you for your support over all this time.

• 22:34Speaker 03

  So I'm gonna go to, you know, some public service work over there. And, yeah, I'm very...

• 22:40Kara Swisher?

  And Canada.

• 22:40Speaker 03

  In Canada, I have a house in Canada, yes. As a backup plan, once we become the 51st state. I don't know what kind of plan that is. But, yes, I'm very ambitious. I've always wanted to have a big, full life, and I feel like I am having one.

• 22:53Kara Swisher?

  How do you decide when to not do things, when to stop doing them?

• 22:57Speaker 03

  Well, if I'm just doing something for a paycheck and I don't feel any sort of creative stimulation, I don't do it. I learned that lesson a long time ago, not to just take money because it's offered to you. You have to be a little bit discerning about what kind of, what you want to put out there. And I'm reliable in the sense that I'm always elevating myself, and there's an evolution. It's not just the same shtick over and over again. It's a more evolved shtick. And I'm growing up. I'm 50 years old now, so I have different things to say. And my ambition is different. I'm on solid ground. I've been around the block so many times, I know myself, I know what I'm capable of, I know what my strengths are, and I'm not shy, and I'm not apologizing about any of it anymore.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  And I'm not trying to people-please. I don't get caught up in other people's opinions. And yeah, you can say I've always been like that, but I really feel like that now. I'm impressed with me now. So that's all I need.

• 23:55Kara Swisher?

  That's true. So but one of the things you talked about, you've been, as you've been successful, you felt like you weren't grounded and you were going to therapy in the book, but you'd lost confidence and you were second guessing yourself.

• 24:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:05Kara Swisher?

  You talk about this and you had a panic attack. Tell us the story of how you realized therapy had become part of the problem.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  Therapy didn't, it wasn't, it didn't become part of the problem. It just is so, when you go to therapy, it's so ironic because to get, I went to therapy to get my head out of my ass. I was, I felt too self-involved and self-absorbed. But then you go to therapy and you have to spend hours ad infinitum talking about yourself. So it's kind of hard to get away from yourself when you're, but you, that is the process to understand and gain some self-awareness and reflection and understand why you do the things you do. It's not the most pleasant process for anyone here who hasn't been to therapy. I'm assuming many of you have and you understand what I mean, that it's, it's dirty. You know, you find out ugly truths about yourself and it's up to you to decide if you want to step it

• 24:54Speaker 03

  up and level it up and become the better version, you know, the 2.0 version of yourself. And I did want that. I wanted to learn and grow and be stronger and more compassionate and patient with idiots. You know, like I want to be patient. When somebody's stupid, I want to be nice to them. I don't want to go, why are you so fucking stupid? You know what I mean? I wanted to learn that and I have learned it. Now I'm nice to stupid people.

• 25:14Kara Swisher?

  Really?

• 25:15Speaker 03

  Yeah. I have patience. I understand that something may have happened to them, you know?

• 25:18Kara Swisher?

  Oh, I'm still stuck in.

• 25:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's hard. I know.

• 25:22Kara Swisher?

  I don't want to leave there.

• 25:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, ignorance and stupidity, two different things sometimes.

• 25:28Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 25:29Speaker 03

  So.

• 25:30Kara Swisher?

  That's true. But after the panic attack, you decided to spend more time alone.

• 25:34Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 25:34Kara Swisher?

  And you began rereading self-help books that you could find and you write that most self-help books pretty much say the same things, but certain ideas resonate. What, what stuck with you?

• 25:44Speaker 03

  The idea of putting out positivity and energy like your energy field, you know, I always thought that was kind of annoying to hear about. And then you realize that it's scientific. Actually, when you have positive thoughts, you're stronger, you're healthier, you're optimistic, you have a different look on your face, and you attract more positivity. And there's a magnetism there, and that is true and the scientific. And your energy is not imagined, you know, it's not in anyone's imagination. So, learning about that in a scientific way was very helpful to me because it's the power of positive thinking. It's the power of being optimistic in the dark and not going down a wormhole. Like, you know, the first Trump presidency, for instance, I let it take me down and I let it steal my joy, and I'm not going to do that again. You don't get my joy again, you know?

• 26:27Kara Swisher?

  How do you prevent that? A lot of people, I get contacted people all the time. What am I going to do now?

• 26:32Speaker 03

  I know, I know you do. I was just sitting backstage asking you the same thing. What do we do now? But we'll figure out what we're going to do. It's just, it's one foot in front of the other. Everything is happening so fast. I don't doubt that we're going to get organized and figure out what the hell to do. I'm, I'm right, I'm ready. Let's go. I mean, don't, did anyone vote for Elon Musk to be the president? I mean, can't we come together, Republicans and Democrats, and say, we don't want that? Can't we agree on that at least?

• 26:59Kara Swisher?

  We can, we can absolutely. Do you, do you feel political right now? Do you feel like you're in a, like, because a lot of people want to just check out?

• 27:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, I relate to that a lot. I feel a little disassociated right now. I mean, it's hard, you know, you're promoting something and everything is happening in the background. It's like two different elements of my life. Like, I want something, I'm promoting something that's very joyful and happy. I have my stand-up special coming out, another joyful, happy thing. And with this as the backdrop, and it makes me realize, like, you know, what my purpose is here is to bring a little bit light and levity and remind people to double down on your love to others and kindness and compassion to all of the groups that are being targeted because people are really scared. And I hate that. I don't want people to feel that way. So what I can do in this moment is to be strong and be a beacon of light to people that feel hopeless and let them know they're not alone and that we're together, we're going to be together.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  And we have More people than they do, I know that. I know more people are good than they are, you know, terrible. I believe that. And I don't believe all Republicans are terrible. I just think, you know, I do think Trump is terrible.

• 28:05Kara Swisher?

  So let's pay back to the parenting advice, which runs throughout the book, actually. You pay for your extended family's vacations. It sounds like a lot of fun. You noticed the kids were being entitled. And so you wrote a letter where you reminded them some basic etiquette.

• 28:18Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 28:18Kara Swisher?

  Which I'm gonna have you raise my kids. You wrote, "Do not consume copious amounts of alcohol that you did not pay for, leaving the adults with no alcohol on multiple occasions." This is not a way to get invited back. This is solid advice, I have to say. How did your siblings react to you?

• 28:35Speaker 03

  Well, it's their fault. Any child's behavior is their parents' fault. So that letter was to my siblings as well. It was a letter after a vacation where the kids just treated this house that I rented on Martha's Vineyard that was so beautiful and so well-appointed. And these people did not want to rent their home. And my nieces and nephews were just so spoiled and entitled. And then I realized I was part of the problem for providing them with these vacations every year, wanting to spoil them, wanting to like, you know, show them how special life can be and how, you know, great it is to be successful. And then I realized, oh, I'm part of the problem. So then I started taking the kids away without their parents.

• 29:16Kara Swisher?

  Oh.

• 29:16Speaker 03

  And so I can tell them how it is. And that's been going well, too. I mean, my siblings don't like it because they're not going on the trips anymore, but I blame it on their bad parenting.

• 29:26Kara Swisher?

  Right, okay, so.

• 29:28Speaker 03

  I'm gonna write a book called Hot Parenting Tips.

• 29:30Kara Swisher?

  Well, let me have some. You know how to talk to kids, maybe because you've actually taken parenting classes.

• 29:35Speaker 03

  I took parenting classes.

• 29:36Kara Swisher?

  I never have taken a parenting class.

• 29:37Speaker 03

  I took online parenting classes for my ex-boyfriend's daughters.

• 29:41Kara Swisher?

  Okay, so.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  Because I wanted to be, I wanted to understand children better. And, you know, I thought you could, you know, threaten them and that would, or you could bribe them. I'd be like, "If you do this, I'll give you this." And it's not about that at all. It's about being consistent and it's about meeting their moments. And when they're angry and they're mad, you never match their anger and their madness. You just show up with love, like, "Oh, you're in a terrible mood? I still love you, I'm s-" Still sitting right here. I'm not going anywhere, so you can be as mad as you want, but I love you.

• 30:08Kara Swisher?

  So what are the top three mistakes you see parents make?

• 30:11Speaker 03

  Well, first of all, people don't see their own children clearly. They are so biased. So you can't parent when it's your own child because you can't see how damaging it is. So, good luck, I guess.

• 30:23Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 30:23Speaker 03

  Um, no, but just, you know, treating children like human beings instead of like children or adults, like really meeting them where they are, being on their level. If they're on the ground, get on the ground, you know? And sit with them and be interested in what they're talking about. Everyone just wants to be seen. Every person wants to be seen. That's really the truth of the matter. And when you feel seen, then you feel like yourself and you don't feel judged and you can express yourself. And that's what we want. We want everyone to be, I want everyone to have like an injection of confidence and feeling seen. Like, that really makes a difference in a kid's life.

• 31:00Kara Swisher?

  It does, absolutely.

• 31:01Speaker 03

  I had one teacher who just told me that I was gonna be the shit. Her name is Mrs. Sheckman. She died last year in Florida. And she made me believe in myself. And I was the youngest of six kids, so there was a lot of neglect and there was, I mean, I wasn't, it wasn't a terrible childhood by any means, but there was a lot of neglect. They didn't pick me up from school. They'd forget about me all the time.

• 31:19Kara Swisher?

  Well, you were number six.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  I was number six, yeah. And so, I don't know why my mom didn't know about birth control, but she did it. And, and my teacher really instilled in me like what I was gonna amount to and that I was going to be something. And I will never forget those words of encouragement. So when I look at any young child who's been neglected, I want to be that person for them.

• 31:39Kara Swisher?

  You should write a parenting book.

• 31:41Speaker 03

  I know, I just said that, Cara.

• 31:42Kara Swisher?

  I know, yeah.

• 31:42Speaker 03

  Pay attention.

• 31:43Kara Swisher?

  I know, but really, you should.

• 31:44Speaker 03

  I'm sitting right across from you with a microphone and you're not even listening to me.

• 31:47Kara Swisher?

  I understand, but you're not actually doing it right now.

• 31:49Speaker 03

  No, I don't have, I'm not writing a book right now. I'm promoting this book. Give me a minute.

• 31:52Kara Swisher?

  All right, okay.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  Jesus. My god. How much can I do? What do you think I am, you?

• 31:58Kara Swisher?

  That's true.

• 32:00Kara Swisher?

  You also write openly about your love life and you talk in the book how your relationship with comedian Joe Coy changed the way you look at love, even though it didn't work out. And although you want to find romantic love, you thought to yourself, "Men are becoming unfuckable." Talk about that.

• 32:15Speaker 03

  I'm still having lots of sex with men, so they're not completely unfuckable.

• 32:19Kara Swisher?

  I read about that.

• 32:20Speaker 03

  And no, it's not all men. I don't want to be, I'm not a man-hater. I just, we understand what's happening in this world and it's pretty obvious. And I'm, yes, I like a variety of men. I like men in my life. I'm not a settle-down kind of girl. I don't see that happening for myself.

• 32:37Kara Swisher?

  Ever?

• 32:38Speaker 03

  I mean, I'll never say never.

• 32:39Kara Swisher?

  You talked a little bit about.

• 32:40Speaker 03

  I mean, I, you know, whenever I'm in a relationship, I think, "Oh, this would be nice." And then eventually, I'm done with that relationship. So I'm just not that type of person. I'm not a gonna get married, spend my life with someone person. I like a little bit of, I like a lot of alone time. And then I like to come together and, you know, and I just have different desires. I used to think that something was wrong with me and now I realize I'm totally normal, that a lot of people feel that way. And so I'm saying it because I want people to know, "You're not alone if you feel that way. You don't have to find a soulmate. It's okay."

• 33:14Kara Swisher?

  But in a lot of ways, you're still the same person. Tell the Woody Allen story from this book. It's the best, it's one of the best.

• 33:19Speaker 03

  Woody Allen, I went to a dinner, I was with Katie Couric. Katie tells this story. She told the story differently, and I'll tell you how she tells it. But Katie and I went to this dinner and there was all these random people in New York City. And I'm sitting at across and it's, there's two empty seats across from me and I'm up against this wall in this restaurant. And in comes Suni Previn and Woody Allen. And I'm like, "Oh, no. Like, I can't do this. There's no way that I will get through this dinner."

• 33:43Kara Swisher?

  Were you aware of this?

• 33:44Speaker 03

  No, I didn't know they were coming. I saw them walking in the restaurant and then they're walking to the table and I'm like, "No, no, no." And I'm kicking Katie under the table. I'm like, "Oh, no, I'm gonna have an outburst. Like, I'm going to. There's no way. You can seat me across from Woody Allen." And she's like, "Can you wait?" And I'm like, "Wait for what?" And she's like, "Can you at least just wait to the end of the dinner?" And I was like, "I could try." And I mean, I did. I was like, "That's a fun experiment." Like, hold myself, you know? To exercise some sort of patience. Uh huh. And so I did. I waited, and I waited, and I waited. And I was asking him, like, I'm not fake at all. And I was being so fraudulent. I was asking him questions about all the movies he directed. And then I mistakenly thought he directed Annie. Yeah. And I was asking him about that. And he was answering the questions, which doesn't make any sense.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  It was Annie Hall, not Annie. Musical. And I didn't say Annie Hall. I was asking about Annie, and he was talking about Annie. But of course, I mean, you know, of course he was, because that's another little girl. Anyway, he...

• 34:41Speaker 03

  At the end of the dinner, they passed around blackberry cobbler. The server came in and played it everyone's blackberry cobbler. And then I was like, you're gonna get it now. And then Woody Allen took a bite of his blackberry cobbler. And I leaned in and said to him and Suni, so how did you two meet?

• 35:00Speaker 03

  That's great. I slept like a baby that night. I really did. I was like... And then Katie was retelling the story, Katie Couric, and she was saying, she's like, I guess Chelsea forgot how they met because she asked them, how did they meet? I'm like, no, Katie, I didn't forget how they met. That was very pointed.

• 35:17Speaker 03

  Oh, Katie. Yeah, I know. Katie and I go back and forth on this all the time. Like, I just forgot how they met. Yeah. And the reaction? He spit blackberry cobbler out of his mouth. He was laughing. And then I got up, and then she's kind of out of it, Suni. I don't know what her story is, but she wasn't very present. Like, she was just kind of all over the place. So I don't know if she heard me or not, but I was leaving anyway at that point. Yeah. I just had to say that before I did leave. And then Katie was like, time to go!

• 35:45Speaker 03

  So he laughed at your joke? Yeah, he did laugh. He did laugh. But, you know, I wasn't laughing with him. I was laughing at him. Okay. Yeah. I love that story. I wish I could do that. I'm gonna do that. Now you've taken... You do that to people all the time. All the time. I do, I do. But that one is... Yeah, thank you. I was proud of that moment. I wish I had... Well, I've never had to do that. I had a moment like that with Piers Morgan once. I was proud of that, too. What did you do to him? He was interviewing me, and I just said, you're such an asshole, you know? He was reading his phone. This has been around the internet, so I'm sure some of you have seen this. Yeah. And he's like, reading his phone while he's talking to me. Yeah. And I'm like, you're a terrible interviewer. Why are you inviting me on your show so you can read your phone? He's like, what? What? What? And he's like, well, maybe you're not interesting enough. I'm like, that's a you problem. You invited me here.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  You have to ask me questions so that I can answer them instead of reading the fucking internet. You loser.

• 36:37Speaker 03

  So that was good. That went viral. I liked that moment as well. He deserves that because he really is an asshole.

• 36:42Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, I would agree with you on that one.

• 37:01Kara Swisher?

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• 37:44Kara Swisher?

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• 38:08Kara Swisher?

  So let's talk about the business of being Chelsea. And a few things. This is the seventh consecutive New York Times bestselling book. You're a publishing phenomenon.

• 38:17Kara Swisher?

  You grew up reading Moby Dick and a bunch of other books as a child.

• 38:22Speaker 03

  My father forced me to read these big books when I was like eight and seven years old. They were so inappropriate. I read Anna Karenina by Tolstoy when I was eight. I had to give a book report in our kitchen. And then I had to read Moby Dick. And then he made me read East of Eden by John Steinbeck when I was eight. I wanted to kill my father.

• 38:39Speaker 03

  I had nothing in common with any of my colleagues at school. I would go, they would be like Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. I'm like, which one, China or Berlin? I had nothing, no relatability to like six-year-olds.

• 38:52Kara Swisher?

  What do you, how do you think when you write, you know, sort of about art versus commerce when you're writing?

• 38:57Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't think of, I don't think that, if you're not being authentically who you are, if you're me and you make a living at being yourself, you have to be very honest and very, I have to show all the good, the bad, the ugly. That's what the people that respect me and are looking to consume my stuff are looking for is honesty, and that is what I base everything off of. I'm gonna give you the honest truth of what's happening in my life, right now. I'm gonna make you laugh, I'm gonna hopefully inspire you, and I'm, and I'm probably gonna make you cry too. And I'm gonna do all of those things, and I'm gonna be very intentional about it. It's not, yes, I'm making a living, but I'm not, I'm not for sale.

• 39:36Kara Swisher?

  Is there anything you don't share?

• 39:39Speaker 03

  I mean, certain people want to be private, so you know, some people, I don't tell their secrets, you know. I had, it took me a long time to understand that my stories are not always just my stories, there are other people's stories, private people, and not everybody wants their story, you know, over the loudspeaker. So I've learned to shroud people's identities, and to be respectful of people who don't want to be in the public eye. So, you know, my relationships with men, for instance, I don't want anyone to even have to deal with what I deal with. People can't deal with that. They wouldn't last two days, you know? So I like to keep like my romantic interests, like now. I've had a public relationship, like I hope I don't do that again.

• 40:17Kara Swisher?

  Right, have another one where you...

• 40:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I hope I don't date another public person.

• 40:21Kara Swisher?

  Okay, all right. Besides the book, as you said, you have a line of vodka lemonades, you got a stand-up special...

• 40:28Speaker 03

  Netflix, my new stand-up special comes out March 25th.

• 40:30Kara Swisher?

  It's called The Feeling.

• 40:31Speaker 03

  It's called The Feeling.

• 40:32Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, The Feeling. You've got a podcast, Dear Chelsea, this European tour. What are the real moneymakers here? Stack rank them and give me a sense of how each fits into your overall business strategy.

• 40:42Speaker 03

  No, well, Kara.

• 40:44Kara Swisher?

  Why not?

• 40:45Speaker 03

  Because I don't know, honestly. I don't know.

• 40:47Kara Swisher?

  You don't actually know?

• 40:48Speaker 03

  No, I mean, I have to really think about how much money I make off of, I make a good living.

• 40:52Kara Swisher?

  Right, I get that, but what do you, what does best for you from, that's surprised you?

• 40:57Speaker 03

  Touring, probably, stand-up.

• 40:58Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 40:59Speaker 03

  You make the most, you make cash, and you go around, you know, I mean, not European tour, that's kind of just, you know, but in America, you know, you do 100 shows, you make a lot of money.

• 41:07Kara Swisher?

  Mm-hmm. And that's your best, still remains. Is it changed over time? Is podcasting or anything?

• 41:12Speaker 03

  Podcasting, I make a lot of money doing that, too. I mean, I've been doing my podcast for a long time, but touring is where the, you know, you make the most money.

• 41:19Kara Swisher?

  Are you surprised by how well comics are doing online?

• 41:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love it. I mean, look at how many female comics are coming up. I mean, I have so many amazing fierce female comics, they're all here at the festival, too, that are coming up, that open for me, that I see, that have specials out. Like, it is a, turning into a very level playing field. We are not there yet, but it is turning into a level playing field, a more level.

• 41:41Kara Swisher?

  Do you lean into online more, like YouTube specials, things like that? You, obviously, this is on Netflix, which is a streamer, but do you, how do you think about that?

• 41:49Speaker 03

  For me, personally?

• 41:50Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  I just, you know, that's a Netflix, Netflix is the place to be right now for stand-up specials.

• 41:55Kara Swisher?

  It used to be HBO.

• 41:56Speaker 03

  It used to be HBO, yeah, then it was Netflix, and now all these other people are trying to, but it's still Netflix. That's where people go to watch specials, and it's in the most household. So if you want an international business, you want to be on a platform that has the most, you know, households, obviously. And I have a long relationship with Netflix. I've been working for them since they started.

• 42:13Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  I did their first talk show, I did a bunch of documentaries for Netflix, I did ayahuasca on Netflix. Um, yeah, I did, I did a one about, you know, uh, white privilege. I've done a lot of really interesting things at Netflix, and so we have a great working relationship. And I'm happy to do my stand-up specials there. And any other business I do, any other TV stuff I might have coming down the road, that's not, you know, I'm not exclusive to Netflix. Then I would go pitch it to other outlets, and you find the best partner.

• 42:41Kara Swisher?

  Um, the stand-up special, you get in some topics covered in the book, but it's tonally, it's edgier. How do you, do you think the audience that reads your books versus the one that watches you in stand-up, do you think you have an overlap there with the audiences?

• 42:52Speaker 03

  I'm sure there's an overlap. I mean, you know, I, some of this, there's overlap in some of the material, because when you're writing a book, you can really set the scene, you can set the characters, you can set the dialogue, you can get into the real details about certain situations. And stand-up, your driving force is the punchline and the joke of the story and the funny, but they're both, you know, I'm a storyteller, I'm telling my personal story. So there's definitely, you know, the Cuomo, uh, my, my almost penetration with Governor Cuomo is in the stand-up and in the book.

• 43:24Kara Swisher?

  Going to go back to that now that he's running for mayor?

• 43:25Speaker 03

  Now that he's the mayor, or that he's running for mayor? No, no, I'm not interested in Andrew Cuomo anymore.

• 43:30Kara Swisher?

  Okay.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  But I was for a hot minute when everyone else was during COVID.

• 43:33Kara Swisher?

  I like that you kept texting him even though there was no response.

• 43:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I did too. I liked that. I was doing that too. It was funny. My family's like, you have no shame. I'm like, who gives a shit? You know what I mean? This is going to be a really funny story, and guess what it is?

• 43:45Kara Swisher?

  You did one with President Bush, saying, I'm good enough for a president, but not a governor.

• 43:48Speaker 03

  Once I was at President Bush's house at Kenny Bunkport. I took a selfie with him and sent it to Andrew Cuomo. And I said, good enough for a president, but not good enough for a governor. Yeah.

• 43:59Kara Swisher?

  What if he texted you right now?

• 44:01Speaker 03

  Andrew Cuomo?

• 44:02Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 44:02Speaker 03

  Oh, I don't give a shit about Andrew Cuomo anymore. I'm long, I mean, that's the thing about heartbreak, you know? You forget about him. I mean, out with the old, in with the new. I've had my heart broken many times since then.

• 44:12Kara Swisher?

  Well, you missed that bullet, I think.

• 44:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I did. I dodged that bullet. As my sister says, mom is up, our mom, our dead mother, is upstairs in heaven, making sure I don't get canceled. I'm like, really? By cockblocking me on the ground?

• 44:25Kara Swisher?

  That was a good one, though.

• 44:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. She's not wrong. My mom is protecting me.

• 44:28Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 44:29Speaker 03

  I mean, if I had been with him, I might have gotten canceled too.

• 44:31Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:32Speaker 03

  But now he's back, so.

• 44:34Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, yeah. There you have it.

• 44:35Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 44:35Kara Swisher?

  No one gets canceled, really. So, streamers are famously guarded with their data, which gives them a lot of leverage. I recently interviewed Ben Stiller about Severance, and he talked about how strange it was to essentially fly blind when you're negotiating with streamers who have no data on viewership. How do you think about it? Do you do that yourself, or do you let your agents?

• 44:53Speaker 03

  I get, I get, I get data on my viewership. Yeah, they, they give it to you. I mean, I think they're, they, they play games when you're negotiating to not give it to you. Or they underplay it, maybe, but I don't know. It's kind of information that's accessible at this point. You can't really, there's nothing secret anymore.

• 45:11Kara Swisher?

  Let's end up talking about politics again last time. How do you tackle him, comedians tackle him now?

• 45:17Speaker 03

  Trump?

• 45:18Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  I mean, Trump is just the same as he's always been. He's a buffoon. You know, he's an orange orangutan. I mean, what he's, he's, what is there more? There's nothing, there's no new information.

• 45:31Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 45:31Speaker 03

  It's the same old shit, you know? You have to tell him he's wonderful and great, and then he's nice to you. And watching world leaders, like, watching him threaten the world and make enemies out of our allies is horrifying. That's not what we want. We're no, we don't want to be, we're not in bed with Russia. That's not what America stands for. America has not accomplished what we were set out to do. This democracy and this dream of democracy, we still have not accomplished it. It's an idea of what could be. We've never been it. It's the idea. So we are still gonna go in that direction of that idea, you know? After these four years are over, I hope we're still in a position that we are still going after the ideal of Americanism and what that means, and that we find some common ground with Republicans, because this doesn't work anymore.

• 46:15Speaker 03

  It's like, with this fighting and this hatefulness is not getting us anywhere. So we have to figure out what the next solution is, or the next step for a solution is. And I don't have the answer to that.

• 46:24Kara Swisher?

  So, when I last interviewed you, you said we're having a social justice and racial justice movement that's clearly over. We seem to be in the middle of a different thing. Many comedians, especially white male comedians with podcasts are full-on Trump supporters, or Trump-adjacent, talking Joe Rogan, Theo Von, Tim Dillon, Andrew Schultz.

• 46:40Speaker 03

  I just did Theo Von's podcast.

• 46:42Kara Swisher?

  And?

• 46:42Speaker 03

  We did not discuss Donald Trump.

• 46:44Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 46:44Speaker 03

  Didn't come up once.

• 46:45Kara Swisher?

  Wow, interesting.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  I was, I was totally fine if it had come up, but he didn't bring it up, because, obviously, why would he?

• 46:51Kara Swisher?

  Do you think some are scared? You host the Critics' Choice Awards. You basically implied Melania Trump was a sex worker. I think that's the new word now, but Trump...

• 47:00Speaker 03

  It's flight attendant. She's a flight attendant.

• 47:04Kara Swisher?

  But Trump was barely mentioned at the Oscars. Do you think Hollywood is gonna meet the moment? Comics are gonna meet the moment?

• 47:10Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, I don't think, I think we're kind of, I think Hollywood's kind of doing its own thing and moving forward in its own thing, and Hollywood has a big impact on social justice. And it has a big impact on what we see and the stories that are being told, and representing all of the people that are being targeted by this administration. So, I think Hollywood is that kind of a nice antidote to this administration in many ways.

• 47:36Kara Swisher?

  But do you see pulling back? Back or are you scared in any way to do that?

• 47:40Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm sure I'm a target, but am I, am I pulling back? No.

• 47:45Kara Swisher?

  Clearly not, no.

• 47:46Speaker 03

  No, I'm not going to pull back. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'd like to, I like to make sure when I'm making comments about these things that it's a, there's a point to it, not just sounding off and bitching and moaning. Because that, I realized during the last administration, how futile that is. And you're wasting your words, you know, and your energy. So it's important to be like, it's important to have a mission and understand when to speak up and what to say when you're speaking up and not to just be screaming the whole time.

• 48:14Kara Swisher?

  So last question, semi-clad skiing is your birthday tradition? Any, working, now that you're 50, happy belated birthday.

• 48:20Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 48:21Kara Swisher?

  Are you working on any new traditions?

• 48:24Speaker 03

  New traditions?

• 48:25Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 48:25Speaker 03

  Hmm, no.

• 48:27Kara Swisher?

  You like skiing naked?

• 48:28Speaker 03

  I ski in bathing suits a lot. I'm not naked anymore. My nephews asked me to not do that again. And, and I said, it's very, I said, that you guys should take it as a compliment that your friends are talking about my body in that way. Like, I'm very relevant to your teenage friends. And they're like, we don't want to hear them talking about your boobs. And I'm like, okay, this is exactly why I didn't have children, so that nobody could tell me what to do.

• 48:49Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 48:49Speaker 03

  But now I have to, you know, they're my nephews. I don't want them to be embarrassed about me, so I put my top on. I don't ski naked anymore. But I do ski in a bathing suit with a joint and a margarita every, every birthday.

• 48:59Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, and I think it's a great, you're going to continue it into your 60s.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  Singing the song of freedom for women, you know, everywhere. It's like, come on, I'll have what I'm having.

• 49:07Kara Swisher?

  What's the title of your book that you release on your 60th birthday?

• 49:11Speaker 03

  Um, The Wheels Are Off But The Train Is Still Going. I don't know.

• 49:17Kara Swisher?

  All right, on that note, Chelsea Handler.

• 49:19Speaker 03

  Thank you guys, thank you. That was fun, Carol.

• 49:29Kara Swisher?

  On With Kara Swisher is produced by Christian Castor-Rosell, Kateri Yokum, Dave Shaw, Megan Burney, Megan Cunane, and Kalen Lynch. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Special thanks to Kate Gallagher. Our engineers are Rick Kwan and Fernando Aruda, and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show... You get a skiing invite from Chelsea. LSD optional. If not, you're stuck on a lift with Piers Morgan. Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On with Kara Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to On with Kara Swisher from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network and us. We'll be back on Monday with more.

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