The 25 Best Movies of the Century: No. 7 - 'In The Mood for Love’

Sean and Amanda return to continue their yearlong project of listing the 25 best movies of the 21st century so far. Today, they discuss Wong Kar-wai’s ‘In the Mood for Love,’ the signature romance film of the century. They talk about why the film is one of the most influential movies ever made, highlight its incredibly beautiful composition and framing, and discuss why the feeling of not getting what you want is more resonant than ever. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Jack Sanders Unlock an extra $250 at linkedin.com/thebigpicture A State Farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.® Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:10Sean Fennessey?

  I'm Sean Finacy.

• 0:11Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm Amanda Dobbins.

• 0:12Sean Fennessey?

  And this is 25 for 25, a big picture special conversation show about in the mood for love. It is a restless moment here on 25 for 25. We have reached number seven, which is Wong Kar Wai's Certified Masterpiece. A hard movie to talk about for a variety of reasons.

• 0:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. Well, it's, it's not word based.

• 0:32Sean Fennessey?

  It's not word based.

• 0:35Amanda Dobbins?

  And it's not, there are actually a few important conversations within the film, but even those conversations are, are, are doing double work and are imagined conversations and are not in the here and now. So it's not, it's not a movie about two people sitting across a table and chatting.

• 0:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, it is. Well, they are, but they're not saying what they really are thinking.

• 1:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly. And they're, they're saying something else to other people. And what they want to say to each other is not said.

• 1:10Sean Fennessey?

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• 1:12Amanda Dobbins?

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• 1:19Sean Fennessey?

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• 1:36Amanda Dobbins?

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• 1:50Sean Fennessey?

  This film was released in the United States of America in 2001, in March of 2001. It premiered at the Cannes Film Festival. It was pretty quickly declared great, but not at the level that it exists at now in the culture. Wong Kar Wai, the great Hong Kong filmmaker, had been making films for, you know, more than a decade by this point. He'd already made a couple of certified classics, Junking Express among them. This movie simultaneously feels like a perfect representation of what he does, but also quite different, a kind of elevation of style of a lot of the things that he had done. A lot of his movies feel much more sort of like kinetic and messy and faster

• 2:28Sean Fennessey?

  moving. And this is a very purposeful, intentional, composed movie. One of the most beautifully composed films of the century.

• 2:40Amanda Dobbins?

  It is. Everyone is quite literally framed by a hallway, or a doorway, or a window, or some other transitional space.

• 2:49Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. It is also produced by Wong. It stars Maggie Chung and Tony Lung. That's more or less it. A handful of other actors are in this film. It's shot in part by Christopher Doyle, the great cinematographer, who's best known for his work with Wong, and also Ping Bin Lee, when Christopher Doyle just left the movie in the middle of the production, as he is wont to do. So this movie was shot over 15 months, despite a profound lack of dialogue. And it is, it has had such an interesting life in the movies. And it's on this list for a variety of reasons. And we can talk about all of those reasons. But I actually want to start near the end, which is that I think that this is one of the most influential movies ever made.

• 3:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 3:31Sean Fennessey?

  And I want to give you room to talk about Sofia Coppola talking about Wong. And, you know, Barry Jenkins has been very open about his admiration.

• 3:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 3:41Sean Fennessey?

  And there is, I think, a generation of, for lack of a better phrase, arthouse filmmakers, who bring a lot of Wong Kar Wai to their work. There is another way in which it is very, very influential, though, and that it makes it very different from the other Wong movies, which is that this movie is very influential on watch and perfume commercials. And there is a kind of tonality.

• 4:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 4:00Sean Fennessey?

  And a reach, a reaching for the beautiful image that you see in a lot of advertising. And that's not why it's on this list, per se, but it has made a huge imprint on our culture.

• 4:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 4:13Sean Fennessey?

  That I think is relatively unacknowledged. Because we think of it as film fans, as movie podcasters. It's incredible cinematic achievement.

• 4:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 4:21Sean Fennessey?

  But in the, in the world that we live in, I feel this movie all the time.

• 4:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Absolutely. I mean, you may not distinguish between advertising and fashion and, and, and the line goes back and forth. But this is hugely influential in the fashion world as well. But the composition, but really the color. And the two things that stood out to me while we were watching this movie, as I did last night, was, you know, like, everyone knows that this, this is like the color study and the color theory in this movie is out of this world. And I said, I saved my red shirt to wear for this because I was like, oh, I should do it, you know?

• 4:55Sean Fennessey?

  It looks great.

• 4:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, it, thank you so much.

• 4:57Sean Fennessey?

  I did not wear red on purpose today.

• 4:59Amanda Dobbins?

  What is like, you know, I, I don't totally understand what synesthesia is, but this movie gets the closest to it of creating, using the color to actually create physical feeling. To me, it's like, I, I mean, there are some actual electric colors in it, but this is, we were talking about action filmmaking. Action is like fine art filmmaking with Mad Max.

• 5:26Sean Fennessey?

  Fury Road.

• 5:27Amanda Dobbins?

  I was about to say Mad Max Die Hard with a Vengeance because Chris Ryan lives rent free in my head. But this is, like, this could hang next to a Matisse, you know? This could hang next to, like, it's a different type of color from an Ellsworth Kelly. But the things that I respond to in art and, and often in fashion, like the, the color is, is what I respond to so much in this movie. So it's hugely influential, right? And like, and what we buy, what we see, what people are telling us is, is aesthetically valuable, I guess. And, and then you mentioned Sofia Coppola, but I, I never had a moment's doubt about picking Marie Antoinette.

• 6:06Amanda Dobbins?

  But I was reminded, oh yeah, we don't need to have Lost in Translation on this list because we have In the Mood for Love. And Sofia Coppola acknowledged that, like, she thanked Wong Kar Wai in her Oscar acceptance speech for best screenplay, for Lost in Translation. But we can have, we can have it all in this particular case because this movie. And it's not just like the structure and the transitional to people who don't say what they mean and transitional spaces and like a secret at the end. But you know, like the mood, the music. I think some people have often unfavorably compared Sofia Coppola films to perfume commercials.

• 6:49Amanda Dobbins?

  She's also directed a couple of great perfume commercials, by the way, because art can be found anywhere. Yes. But this as like ecstatic tone piece is it's really the peak.

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• 8:34Sean Fennessey?

  I think it really ripples through filmmaking culture in a very serious way. And, you know, this is, this is perhaps the great romantic movie of the century as well. We've talked about a couple of them here in these conversations, but this is one that because it's effectively unrequited, you know, that there's no, or no consummation, I should say. Unconsummated, yeah. That it creates a sense of longing that I think is very present in contemporary culture. Sure. I think that because people experience their life through screens more now, this feeling of I can't have what I want is very resonant. And that's obviously, this is a film, you know, set in Hong Kong in 1962. Two married people come to move into the same apartment complex and they essentially live next door to each other.

• 9:19Sean Fennessey?

  And they both have traveling spouses. And the revelation of the film is that these two people who are at this kind of interesting, I guess they're in their late 30s maybe in this movie, Maggie Chung and Tony Wong. I would say mid. Okay, mid 30s maybe. Maggie Chung is eternal and, and, and we will get to her in a moment. But, um, you know, Wong was in his early 40s when he made this movie. And I think that's relevant. I think you, people reach a certain phase of their life, a certain age in their life, and they start reflecting on, do I have the things that I really want? Am I really happy? Where is my partner tonight? Why are they not home with me? And so the film, while it could seem, I think, if you're not a foreign film fan, or if you're

• 9:59Sean Fennessey?

  not a cinephile, a movie like this could feel difficult to penetrate, right? To get past, to get into, because it's a period piece, it's in another language, it is from a filmmaker here, like, oh, do I have to see all their work beforehand? The movie is, I think, very. Contained, yeah. Yeah, and it's not hard to put your arms around if you just think about what's going on in these characters' minds, you know, and why they're feeling the way that they're feeling. Right. Now, that being said, one of the things that I do like about it, and the way that the Wong who shows up in like Days of Being Wild appears in this movie is, there is a little bit of perversion in the movie. Mm-hmm. Because these two people who find each other, and they see that they have, they have a connection. Yeah. And they start spending time together and they kind of start dancing around their

• 10:43Sean Fennessey?

  feelings for one another. And then Wong's character decides he wants to write a serial about what they discover in their conversations, which is that their partners are not just not present, and maybe not just having an affair, but they're having an affair with each other. Yeah. And then he wants to write the serial about them having their affair. Which is, that's very Hitchcock.

• 11:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 11:06Sean Fennessey?

  You know, that's very, that's a little kinky and a little weird. And a little bit of like what a stifled man does to, to process.

• 11:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 11:14Sean Fennessey?

  His, his troubled feelings, rather than just like taking them out on a woman by ravishing her with his love. Like, this character doesn't know how to do that.

• 11:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 11:22Sean Fennessey?

  He knows how to like sit quietly and write while a woman observes him and they talk about story structure.

• 11:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 11:28Sean Fennessey?

  And that's really interesting, you know, that's not, this isn't like some stuffy period piece. It's a little strange.

• 11:34Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, excuse me, don't be stuffy period piece, because what I, you know, this does have, this understands all the emotions that are boiling beneath the surface and are restrained or repressed in, in all of those.

• 11:48Sean Fennessey?

  Your beloved Victorian dramas.

• 11:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, well, they're not Victorian.

• 11:52Sean Fennessey?

  Tudor dramas.

• 11:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Like Edwardian.

• 11:54Sean Fennessey?

  Edwardian, okay, got it.

• 11:57Amanda Dobbins?

  And, you know, and Merchant Ivory would be.

• 11:59Sean Fennessey?

  Amandanian? What would, how, how would you, what would you call it? What is your era called?

• 12:04Amanda Dobbins?

  I guess.

• 12:05Sean Fennessey?

  Amandanian, yeah.

• 12:06Amanda Dobbins?

  No, that, because that sounds too much like whatever Natalie Portman's character in the.

• 12:10Sean Fennessey?

  Queen Amidala.

• 12:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:11Sean Fennessey?

  Padme?

• 12:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, sure.

• 12:15Amanda Dobbins?

  We'll go with that. But when they're doing what is effectively role playing? You know, they have many rehearsed conversations where they're talking about how they would speak to their spouse or confront their spouse or, um, and they're, they're, I mean, it's role playing. There is actual kink in that as well.

• 12:34Sean Fennessey?

  There is.

• 12:35Amanda Dobbins?

  So it's messed up. It also is quite sad. It really struck me on this rewatch. And maybe it's just the age in my life, like, these are, these people are coming to this relationship from not just like an inability to access their emotions for each other, but they're completely cut off from their spouses and from the world. There are so many shots of these people alone in like small rooms.

• 13:02Sean Fennessey?

  Being quiet.

• 13:03Amanda Dobbins?

  And the, and the framing so often goes to emphasize just like how, how small their lives are.

• 13:11Amanda Dobbins?

  And so they have these feelings for each other, but they can't express them. And, and the feelings are born out of like such like loneliness and sadness that I'm like, is this even, I mean, it is romantic, but it is also, what is the nature of this romance?

• 13:28Sean Fennessey?

  Something, right?

• 13:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. It's, it's, it's, uh, it's tough. It's tough stuff.

• 13:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's obviously kept being counteracted by two of the most beautiful screen stars of all time.

• 13:39Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, even like, I think like early 30s, probably. I think we're really flattering ours.

• 13:43Sean Fennessey?

  Like, I know, but those, I mean, both of those actors were making movies in the, in the 80s. Definitely, you know, Tony Wong was in movies in like 1985.

• 13:52Amanda Dobbins?

  But like spoiler alert, I guess, that there's a young son at the end of the movie that would indicate that we're sort of like early to mid 30s.

• 14:00Sean Fennessey?

  Um, there are a lot of images in this movie of characters not talking.

• 14:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 14:07Sean Fennessey?

  Which is very, uh, the opposite of what you expect from a Hollywood production.

• 14:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 14:12Sean Fennessey?

  Um, especially tele Hollywood television, the camera never looks at a person that doesn't talk. The camera never looks for a reaction. This is a movie of like quiet, sometimes anguished, but mostly like recessed contemplation.

• 14:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 14:25Sean Fennessey?

  And that in and of itself doesn't sound like it would be tremendously cinematic. But when you combine all of these various filmmaking techniques, so you, you know, you mentioned the color already and that color manifests in the production design, in the spaces that they are in, you know, especially in Maggie Chung's, Chung Sam's, those dresses, which are just electrifying some of the most memorable and influential costumes in movie history. Um, and then the music also is a major factor in making you feel a certain way.

• 14:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 14:58Sean Fennessey?

  You know, Yumeji's theme, which plays over and over again in this film, another thing that I think is very influential on watch commercials, you know, you can, I think you've heard that, that score from another Japanese film that was made some 10 years earlier, uh, over and over again in various luxury goods commercials. Um, but in this movie, it's used to, I think, as this motif to create this sense of like,

• 15:21Sean Fennessey?

  Here we go again. I'm fucking lonely. Why won't I, why can't I be loved in this sad and, and difficult world?

• 15:31Sean Fennessey?

  And I, I like the origins that Wong talks about with this film. You know, he's born in the late 50s. And he, you know, moved from China to Hong Kong. And he arrived in Hong Kong at a time of kind of great transition in that space where you had a lot of immigrants coming over from the mainland. And there was this sense that there was like, people attempting to experience high society in like lower class environs. And like constantly showing us the elegance of this world of like suited men and women in elegant dresses. But also like five noisy neighbors playing mahjong next door. And like, everybody lives in a sardine can.

• 16:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 16:09Sean Fennessey?

  And that contrast of this human desire, I think to, to live a bigger and more beautiful life that everybody has.

• 16:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 16:18Sean Fennessey?

  Like, everybody wants to be pulled from the mundanity that they're born into. To, to be a little bit more special, a little bit more beautiful, a little bit more elegant.

• 16:29Amanda Dobbins?

  And to not be the, the person left at home.

• 16:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 16:31Amanda Dobbins?

  And to, and they keep getting gifts that the husband brings home from, you know, like, oh, my husband is traveling abroad. But that, you know, that there's the rice cooker, there's the purse, there, there are the multiple purses. There are all sorts of, um, there is a, there is a sense that there is a bigger, brighter world out there. That other, that other people are living in.

• 16:56Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 16:57Amanda Dobbins?

  And.

• 16:57Sean Fennessey?

  But also that you could be mollified by receiving these things. And then it just sitting with your objects without having like the feeling of being in that world.

• 17:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 17:07Sean Fennessey?

  Which is, we do see this in a lot of mid-century American fiction and, you know, Mad Men was very much about this. Like, I would be very surprised if Matthew Weiner was not a fan of In the Mood for Love. Cause there's a lot of similar ideas at least about the way that people live in this time and history. And it's very unusual. Cause like I said, like, this movie's largely improvised and they took a really long time to make it.

• 17:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 17:30Sean Fennessey?

  And it sounds like it's very difficult to work with Wong, but Tony Long has worked with him seven times. Maggie Chung has worked with him five times. So they understand his methodology.

• 17:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 17:40Sean Fennessey?

  I find watching a lot of his movies that there is like a. Kind of like chaos on the edges of the frame. And this is the only one really for me. Maybe other, I guess this is maybe the beginning of a new era. Where like 2046 and The Grand Master are these much more like tightly managed movies. And the earlier films feel very realized in real time.

• 18:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 18:03Sean Fennessey?

  Um, and so this movie being this kind of bridge between that painterly color theory that you're talking about. But also the idea of them like arriving on set and being like, what if we did it like this? Or what if we went to this location and did the same scene?

• 18:13Amanda Dobbins?

  And I, and it does also, there are so many small moments in this movie or gestures or, um, you know, they're never words, but they are, whether it's Maggie Chun kind of like grabbing her hand, you know, grabbing her arm to express whatever. That you can find them like running, you can imagine them running a bunch of times until they find like this moment. Or I can see that you're doing this small thing with the, you know, with the way that you tilt your head, but in, in this frame, it communicates what we want to say about XYZ. But you, I like, you would have to run it a lot of times, I think, to find the moments that are,

• 18:57Amanda Dobbins?

  feel as unstudied as they do, but also as revealing.

• 19:00Sean Fennessey?

  I, I agree. I was thinking about this in the context of chatting with Paul Thomas Anderson on the pod about One Battle After Another. And he, he said something in that conversation that I've been thinking about ever since, which is that they would go out and shoot a scene.

• 19:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm hmm.

• 19:15Sean Fennessey?

  And then they would look at it and then they would go out the next day and they would shoot the same scene in a different way. And then they would go back and then they would look at it again and then they would shoot it a third time. And so he would take three days for individual scenes and reshoot them. Which I'm sure plenty of people do this, but that's very unusual for a Hollywood movie. It's all about getting, getting the scene, getting what's on, what the plan is for the day. And it is more in the mode that we're talking about here with Wong Kar Wai, where you're able to kind of like look very closely at what you're capturing. And then if it's not working, dispense with it and go somewhere else and try something else. Or just a different gesture, as you're saying, just touch your face in this way. So I can get exactly what I want.

• 19:57Sean Fennessey?

  Not what I have like enough money to pay for on this day because of the crunch of the circumstances. But we are being exacting in the way that a fine artist can be because they're working by themselves. Films don't usually work that way because so many people work on them and they cost so much money.

• 20:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 20:12Sean Fennessey?

  And that's another thing that I think makes this movie stand out from other films is you can feel that level of intentionality that is also defined by looseness.

• 20:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 20:22Sean Fennessey?

  Which is just a really cool paradox of movie making. And one of the things that I love reading about this movie, there's a huge feature in The New Yorker written by Kyle Chaitka, in which he talks about both the filmmaking and what went into it. And then the ways in which it has gone into the world.

• 20:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 20:39Sean Fennessey?

  Um, and it's very, very insightful if you, if you are interested in this movie. But it is one of those films that like, it's a bit like David Lynch's stuff, right? When it comes out and people are like, huh, this is really interesting. And then 20 years later, you're still talking about it and you're still unpacking it and you're still figuring it out. I did want to shout out William Chang Suk Ping, who is the, I think the undersung hero of many of these Wong movies, in part because he is the film editor, the production designer and the costume designer.

• 21:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 21:13Sean Fennessey?

  On a bunch of his films.

• 21:14Amanda Dobbins?

  That's kind of, that's three big ones.

• 21:16Sean Fennessey?

  Those are three important jobs in these movies especially.

• 21:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 21:20Sean Fennessey?

  Because of the, and this movie is really cut.

• 21:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 21:22Sean Fennessey?

  Right? Like there's all.

• 21:23Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, and that like, that's, that's, that is the mood, the, the actual mood of, in The Mood for Love. The tone of the movie is encompassed in, you know, that plus music is what his job is. So.

• 21:36Sean Fennessey?

  Another thing I wanted to point out is that this movie is only 98 minutes long.

• 21:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 21:40Sean Fennessey?

  But it feels long.

• 21:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure, they take their time.

• 21:43Sean Fennessey?

  And I like, it's on purpose, right? It's not, a lot of times you say like, oh, man, this movie felt like it was six hours long. As a pejorative about a movie. This is a case where I think it's like, please sit inside of these feelings.

• 21:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 21:55Sean Fennessey?

  You know, you're not allowed to look away from these people being unable to realize what they need.

• 22:02Amanda Dobbins?

  They're, they're small events, but big feelings. And so it is supposed to be an epic, I think, of, of emotion or of melodrama. You know, like I, I think it wants you to really feel the sweeping nature of what's going on underneath. If, even if it's not happening on the screen.

• 22:21Sean Fennessey?

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• 22:26Amanda Dobbins?

  That's so true. I'm so grateful to have Sean support me as I explore my interest in Four Case.

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• 22:53Sean Fennessey?

  Is this the greatest smoking film of the 21st century?

• 22:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, there's that one shot where some of the smoke is blue and some of the smoke is, I mean, it's really.

• 23:02Sean Fennessey?

  How do they do that?

• 23:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 23:04Sean Fennessey?

  Gels on the lights, perhaps?

• 23:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Good job, them.

• 23:06Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's really quite beautiful.

• 23:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Really, yeah.

• 23:10Sean Fennessey?

  And yeah, I, I think the more times that I look at it, the more it feels like an outlier in this entire run of Hong Kong filmmakers. And it's interesting that it has become such a.

• 23:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 23:27Sean Fennessey?

  Such a touchstone.

• 23:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Because it is, it's the exception and this, well, I think, I mean, it does borrow from a lot of conventions that are more familiar to Western audiences, even as it's also, you know, breaking a lot of them. And it has a very particular style, but it is, you know, it is a period drama romance, you know? It's just like a more recent period than we're used to seeing. And there are a lot of, like.

• 23:59Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, they all have like office jobs. There is a sense of capitalism and all of these things underpinning all of it. So I, you know, you can see, or maybe it's just that other people have translated it so often for us now that one we watch it. I mean, you know, we, I guess I saw this fairly soon after its release, but it is interesting to watch it after 25 years of In the Mood for Love, like being in pop culture and being disseminated in the way that you were discussing. And, you know, what did we recognize the first time we saw it versus what are we seeing now that it's been reflected back to us like 15 times?

• 24:37Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think, I think that's probably going to continue to because it's a movie that, you know, Criterion issued all of Wong's movies in a box set maybe three years ago, which is when we had a conversation on this show. We did a whole episode about Wong's work with Justin Chang that people should go back and check out if they're interested in his movies. And this movie is reissued in 4K. 4K, 4K is quite beautiful. If you're looking for an excuse to get a 4K player in the mood for love would be, would be a reasonable one. Let's talk quickly about Tony Lung and Maggie Chung. So Maggie Chung doesn't really work anymore.

• 25:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 25:09Sean Fennessey?

  She, I don't think she's been in a movie in like 10 years and she just kind of stepped away. There was a time when she was possibly considered the most beautiful person in movies.

• 25:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 25:23Sean Fennessey?

  For a pretty long stretch there, you know, that time between like when she's a hero and like Police Story and the Heroic Trio, all the way through Irma Vep probably.

• 25:35Sean Fennessey?

  And then you get this movie as a kind of like real, like her, like true, perfect romantic role. But her and Tony Lung are not, also not really known for movies like this. Like most of their movies are action movies, comedies, you know, Tony Lung, you know, last seen by most American audiences in Shang-Chi. I think he's Shang-Chi's dad.

• 25:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 25:59Sean Fennessey?

  He's pretty good in that. And we saw this moment, you know, with Michelle Yeoh, another actress in a cut from a very similar cloth. They worked, she worked with both of these actors many times, having like her grand Hollywood moment.

• 26:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 26:11Sean Fennessey?

  With everything everywhere all at once and winning and then booking like nine jobs in Hollywood movies after that. And everyone being like, yeah, it is time that we acknowledge Michelle Yeoh. And it did have me thinking about these two actors. There's a handful of other actors who have, were in Wong's movies who I came to know and like follow their work to other stuff, but. They haven't quite had their like, among cinephiles, they're renowned.

• 26:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, right.

• 26:34Sean Fennessey?

  But they're not, they're not in like the pantheon of regular folk talking about Hollywood movies. Not that they need to be, but this is obviously an American movie podcast. So I kind of wanted to put a circle around them. Like, I wonder if there, would there be a time when a filmmaker could convince Maggie Chung, could Steven Soderbergh can convince Maggie Chung to come out of retirement and make a movie?

• 26:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, it would be, it would be amazing. It would have to be that, right? And I think some of it is just that Michelle Yeoh actually did make everything everywhere all at once with the Daniels. And, and that was a unexpected like moment all its own, super deserving. But we were all like, wow, okay, this is just getting every Oscar. So it would, it would be great.

• 27:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Maybe she doesn't want to work, though. Maybe she's, maybe she's just hanging out.

• 27:16Sean Fennessey?

  I don't think she does. And God bless her, you know, I hope she, I hope she's happy wherever she is right now.

• 27:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Maybe 15 months of this was enough, you know?

• 27:22Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think it's also because like those actors never had their like significant American crossover, right? Like Michelle Yeoh had Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Chow Yun Fat became like a US movie star. That's never happened for these actors, but they're incredible in this film. Restraint is so important. And I, in, in action movies and in comedies, it's the opposite. Like, it's like a very expressive acting style.

• 27:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:46Sean Fennessey?

  You know, you need to be like over the top. And this movie is about-

• 27:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Stillness.

• 27:49Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, exactly. And what, what can you read in, in the performer's stillness?

• 27:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 27:55Sean Fennessey?

  That is, that is really challenging. So I think they're amazing in this film. This episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by Amazon Prime. What pairs with a good comedy? The cozy blanket arriving with Prime. What pairs with a nail biting thriller? Snacks arriving with Prime. What pairs with big game on Prime Video? That new couch arriving with Prime. Whatever feeling you're after, Prime helps bring it to life with great entertainment and fast shipping that delivers what the moment calls for. From streaming to fast shipping, it's on Prime. This episode is brought to you by the Autograph Journey Credit Card from Wells Fargo. The Autograph Journey Credit Card from Wells Fargo is built for travel. You can earn rewards wherever you book, your favorite hotel site, your go-to airline, and more. You get five

• 28:37Sean Fennessey?

  times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants, and other travel, and one point on other purchases. Whether it's a big vacation or a quick getaway, from booking your stay to that first meal when you arrive, you're turning your trips into rewards with the Autograph Journey Credit Card from Wells Fargo. Learn more at wellsfargo.com/autographjourney. Terms apply. Other musical choices, the, I've listened many times, probably because of this movie, to the Nat King Cole Spanish language album. I know that's probably a weird image, me sitting alone in a room, listening to Kisos, Kisos, Kisos.

• 29:11Amanda Dobbins?

  What, in what context are you putting it on?

• 29:14Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, just stark naked, four o'clock in the morning, just sitting quietly, sipping, sipping tea.

• 29:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Got it. Cool. Normal.

• 29:25Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, and then, all the score in the film, all the music, music's like a huge part of Wong's style in general, but it's usually something a lot more like energetic, and this is, again, much more strained.

• 29:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, and slow mo, literally.

• 29:38Sean Fennessey?

  Literally, and what do you think of the slow motion in this movie?

• 29:40Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I, I expect all of it, like, some of it is so, uh, so much of it is like, traditional and controlled and, and composed. And then, at one point last night, I was like, wait, do I have this on, um, like, fast forward for some reason, because some of the cuts and the subtitles and everything, like, as you said, he's like, he's playing with pace and tempo and, um, so sure, why not? Like, I expect that in this movie, and I guess in, in a Wong Kar Wai movie in general.

• 30:12Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, like in Chunking Express, he does the same thing, where he's like slowing down and you get that kind of like, almost like flashing lights quality to some of the sequences.

• 30:22Sean Fennessey?

  And yeah, he feels comfortable experimenting even in what could be like a pretty traditional stayed film format, no shots to your Edwardian, they're dramedies, you like the dramedies, right?

• 30:34Amanda Dobbins?

  I like them all.

• 30:34Sean Fennessey?

  The comedies of manners.

• 30:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, but I like a good, like, swooning, stark, rusted situation.

• 30:40Sean Fennessey?

  How much do you think the forthcoming Wuthering Heights will be influenced by In the Mood for Love? Emerald Fennessey, Fennessey?

• 30:48Amanda Dobbins?

  You're not gonna bait me into that, like, I'm just not, I-

• 30:51Sean Fennessey?

  Bait you into what?

• 30:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I will see that, I will see Emerald Fennessey, Wuthering Heights.

• 30:56Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm, Wuthering Heights?

• 30:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Wuthering, Wuthering, I don't know how we're saying it, um-

• 31:00Sean Fennessey?

  Have you had a Werther's before, Werther's original?

• 31:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, but that's, um, I don't really care for it, it's an old lady candy. And, what, are you really into those?

• 31:10Sean Fennessey?

  Well, just, just to be pointed about it, my grandfather-

• 31:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 31:14Sean Fennessey?

  Edward Fennessy.

• 31:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh.

• 31:17Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, he was a fascinating guy, lived a fascinating life. Um, he always had Werther's on him.

• 31:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, this is, yeah, this is what I'm saying, but it's like not, it's that and then this little candies, the strawberry candies.

• 31:31Sean Fennessey?

  I like those too.

• 31:31Amanda Dobbins?

  I like with the little center, yeah. I mean, they're good.

• 31:35Sean Fennessey?

  What's wrong with old person candy?

• 31:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Anyway, I'll see the Emerald Fennel movie. I, I, and I support Charli XCX and everything she does, but um, I don't, I don't know if it's gonna be on this level.

• 31:47Sean Fennessey?

  I don't think so either. Uh, the movie also ends magnificently with the uh, Angkor Wat sequence after our two characters have been separated and then a lot of time passes and they move to different stages of their career. There's these, or their life, I should say, they have a series of near misses, you know, where they're, they think they're gonna meet or they're gonna reunite in some way and it doesn't quite happen. And the film ends with Tony Lung, you know, whispering the secret.

• 32:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 32:13Sean Fennessey?

  Into the tree.

• 32:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:14Sean Fennessey?

  And that's an amazing and really fascinatingly bold choice because it's just a complete contrast to everything that we've seen before. Most of In the Mood for Love is in these kind of darkened nighttime sequences. It's often very rainy.

• 32:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:28Sean Fennessey?

  We're seeing characters behind the rain or behind gates or behind these kind of beaded curtains. There's always this sense of like.

• 32:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Through a doorway.

• 32:37Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, you can't, you're, there's, you're at a distance. There's something between us that we can't break through.

• 32:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Going up or downstairs.

• 32:43Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, um, all these like visual cues that show us what's going on between these two characters. And then when we see him here, when he visits um,

• 32:53Sean Fennessey?

  this, this uh, you know, ancient monument, it's wide open. It's daytime. The angle that he shoots him from, from above is completely different from anything that we've seen.

• 33:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 33:06Sean Fennessey?

  Previous to this movie. And he whispers the secret into the tree. Now, the secret is like, I was in love with this woman? Or is it something deeper than that?

• 33:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, well, I guess we don't know.

• 33:15Sean Fennessey?

  We don't know.

• 33:16Amanda Dobbins?

  And which, you know, once again, see, loss in translation.

• 33:20Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:20Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm, I'm sure that we all have our theories and it goes back to, is it about her? Is it about his like own failure in life? You know, is it, uh, has he found, has he moved on? Is there any contentment in it? I, I don't know. I, I guess, I think.

• 33:43Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't know if I think it's exactly about her. Maybe it's just a memory of there was this nicer, there was this moment that we had and now it's gone.

• 33:51Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 33:51Amanda Dobbins?

  How much self-knowledge he has versus how much knowledge we're supposed to have about what's going on? I'm not sure.

• 33:57Sean Fennessey?

  It's a good point. The movie doesn't really psychologize them.

• 34:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 34:00Sean Fennessey?

  In that way, we don't get that internal monologue. These characters who are communicating their longing for the most part.

• 34:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 34:06Sean Fennessey?

  His character talks a little bit about what's going on and what he wants to do.

• 34:11Sean Fennessey?

  Is this, has this been memed, this ending?

• 34:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh.

• 34:15Sean Fennessey?

  You know, where it's like, I secretly think the Blue Jays are much better than the Dodgers, but the baseball media doesn't want you to know that.

• 34:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, all right. That's, uh, we're, we're recording this one day after the epic 18 inning World Series game.

• 34:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 34:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, I don't, I haven't seen it if it's been memed. Do you feel that would be respectful or that would be?

• 34:37Sean Fennessey?

  I do.

• 34:38Amanda Dobbins?

  You do, you think like?

• 34:38Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's the highest compliment you can pay a film is to keep it in the culture.

• 34:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, but it's sort of like, do you want this on TikTok? Like, you know, because then everyone, well, I know it is, but, and, and in insulting ways, so, okay.

• 34:51Sean Fennessey?

  And then, and then, you know, Chanel number five commercials and then Bulova watch commercials. And, you know, it's like, what could be more degrading than that? Like, me making a good meme about baseball.

• 35:04Amanda Dobbins?

  All right.

• 35:04Sean Fennessey?

  With Tony Lung in it, that's, that fucking rocks, man.

• 35:07Amanda Dobbins?

  There you go. Fire it up right now. Okay.

• 35:09Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, what's his movie's legacy?

• 35:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Are you good at making memes?

• 35:12Sean Fennessey?

  I think that I could be if I devoted myself.

• 35:16Amanda Dobbins?

  You're like Judy Gent in Pride and Prejudice.

• 35:18Sean Fennessey?

  That's right. That's exactly how I am. The film's legacy.

• 35:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 35:24Sean Fennessey?

  Is there anything else about why we chose this film that you wanted to cite?

• 35:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, I, this was a no-brainer.

• 35:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, we didn't really debate this one.

• 35:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Like really on the list, like immediately. And I don't even think that I thought about replacing loss and translation with it when we were doing it. We were sort of secure in our picks independently, but now it makes a lot of sense.

• 35:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I'm thinking about his films in general. I mean, my favorite of his movies, this is not my favorite of his movies. My, my favorite of his movies.

• 35:53Sean Fennessey?

  Is probably Chunking Express and maybe Happy Together in second place.

• 35:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 35:59Sean Fennessey?

  Those are the two and Happy Together, I think, is maybe even more influential on Barry Jenkins. I'd be curious to hear Sofia Coppola talk about Happy Together.

• 36:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 36:05Sean Fennessey?

  Which is like another movie about like displacement and longing, queer love story about two people in South America who are not from South America. There's amazing musical cues like-

• 36:14Amanda Dobbins?

  I think one of the musical cues is Perfidia in Happy Together.

• 36:16Sean Fennessey?

  Right, it is.

• 36:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 36:18Sean Fennessey?

  And I think that those two movies are just like ravishing and so strange and like a little harder to unpack. But this movie is also, it's like 99 out of 100 versus 100 out of 100.

• 36:29Amanda Dobbins?

  I think Chunking Express is like defensible as a favorite. Well, I, I, I go within the mood for love over Happy Together, even though I, you know.

• 36:38Sean Fennessey?

  And many people love Days of Being Wild, which is sort of like his big announcement. Fallen Angels, if you're into gangster movies, is pretty cool.

• 36:47Sean Fennessey?

  I'm less high on the two other 2000s films. Like, there was no debate about what's the right movie for this century for Wong. Interesting timing, though. In very soon, I believe, his television series, which is called Blossoms Shanghai, which he made, which was a massive sensation in Asia, is coming to the Criterion Channel. And it's, I think it's like a pretty long episodic, like 20-plus-episode series.

• 37:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 37:16Sean Fennessey?

  That I have heard is like, maybe like a little bit more standard television, but just made by Wong Kar Wai with like, you know, lots of plot and incidents and characters kind of, you know, making a lot of choices as opposed to what you find in most of his other films. But it's interesting timing, because he-

• 37:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Do characters make choices as like a rubric for is this a movie or not is, is a great, a great litmus test.

• 37:38Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I mean, they do ultimately make the choice to not fuck in this movie. You know, that is a choice, in a way.

• 37:43Amanda Dobbins?

  I guess they do, is, but do they even make the choice or does the choice just like float by? I think this is a movie, so, you know, I don't know why I'm arguing against it.

• 37:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, no, they make choices, but those choices are not, we should blow up this bank, you know? That doesn't come up in discussion between these two lovely people who you say are in their early 30s.

• 38:02Amanda Dobbins?

  I think so.

• 38:03Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, I'm gonna say 36.

• 38:05Amanda Dobbins?

  I think that that is, is generous to everyone.

• 38:08Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. My Blueberry Nights, have you seen that?

• 38:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, I watched it for the, um, the episode that we did with Justin Chang.

• 38:16Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that, that, uh, that movie's kind of lost to time.

• 38:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 38:20Sean Fennessey?

  Nor Jones.

• 38:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Was not in consideration for

• 38:22Sean Fennessey?

  Didn't come up.

• 38:23Amanda Dobbins?

  For this list.

• 38:25Sean Fennessey?

  The legacy of the movie. Now, we've obviously talked about its influence.

• 38:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 38:29Sean Fennessey?

  Which is clear. Tony Long did win Best Actor at Cannes when it premiered. It was submitted as Hong Kong's best international feature, then Best Foreign Language Film Oscar contender, but was not chosen by the Academy.

• 38:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, that's, you know, once again, that's on the Academy.

• 38:47Sean Fennessey?

  It's pretty cool.

• 38:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Not on us.

• 38:48Sean Fennessey?

  This film is number four on the New York Times Top 100.

• 38:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, that's the, like, the special people list?

• 38:54Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 38:54Amanda Dobbins?

  And not the audience list.

• 38:55Sean Fennessey?

  Were you asked to be a part of the special people list?

• 38:57Amanda Dobbins?

  I was not asked.

• 38:57Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, interesting. Me neither. 87 on Metacritic. I don't know what that tells us, really.

• 39:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 39:03Sean Fennessey?

  When did Metacritic start?

• 39:04Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't know. I did read Roger Ebert's review last night.

• 39:08Sean Fennessey?

  Three out of four stars.

• 39:09Amanda Dobbins?

  So, there you go.

• 39:11Sean Fennessey?

  What do you make of that?

• 39:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, as Bill likes to say, Rog is big on plot. Rog really likes story.

• 39:16Sean Fennessey?

  He does like story. He does. This is an area. Roger Ebert, a huge champion of Asian cinema.

• 39:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 39:24Sean Fennessey?

  But this is the kind of movie that he was always a little bit outside of.

• 39:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 39:29Sean Fennessey?

  And it's very interesting that our culture has come around to it so deeply. What movies is it standing in for? So, I think this is, there's two tracts here.

• 39:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 39:38Sean Fennessey?

  There is a huge history of Chinese and Hong Kong cinema, starting in like roughly the mid 80s, that is starting to have a real light cast upon it in recent years. Two things are happening. There are these series of, you know, mostly John Woo, but a lot of other directors who made these hugely influential Titanic action movies in the 80s.

• 40:03Sean Fennessey?

  And John Woo eventually came to Hollywood and started making movies with people like Nicolas Cage. But those movies were hard to find for a while, like The Killer and Hard Boiled and all these movies. And just in the last year, the Criterion Channel has all these movies on their channel, and they're all being issued in 4K and you can buy them. Like, you couldn't, you literally couldn't buy these movies in a non-Japanese edition forever. And people are starting to discover them. You know, Wong has been much more preserved, I think, because he's, you know, recognized in cinephile circles.

• 40:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 40:32Sean Fennessey?

  And his films, you know, play in rep houses. Like, there is a, there's a culture around fandom for him. I'm very curious to see like how people get reactivated by some of this other stuff. But, you know, Johnny To and John Woo and Zhang Yimou and, um, you know, more recent filmmakers like Zhang Jianca, like, a lot of these filmmakers who, like, we could have talked about for the list, you know, John Woo hasn't really made a movie I've loved in a while, but, um, Wong making like his last masterpiece in the year 2000 is kind of fascinating.

• 41:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 41:05Sean Fennessey?

  For the purposes of this. I like 2046.

• 41:07Amanda Dobbins?

  It's okay.

• 41:08Sean Fennessey?

  I, it's my wife's favorite.

• 41:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 41:11Sean Fennessey?

  So, you know, my wife is a little weird. She has an unusual taste at times, but I think she likes to sit in that movie. That movie's a little harder to parse.

• 41:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 41:19Sean Fennessey?

  Than this movie is. And then, so that's like, that's one track. And then there's like Taiwanese masters too, like Ho Shao Shen and, um, you know, Edward Yang's Yi Yi is like the number one movie that people will be like, how could you not have this movie on the list? It's a movie I really like, I think is great. I know some people think it is the greatest film of all time. You know, we've never really talked about it on the show. It's not really a part of this show. I recognize its power and its influence. It's another movie that has gotten a huge boost in the last 15 or 20 years, but that's also not on our list. And then there's the, like, the romance movies. That, there are quite a few.

• 41:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 41:56Sean Fennessey?

  That I think you, we could have made a case for.

• 41:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 41:59Sean Fennessey?

  In the place of this movie or in the place of some other movies. I don't know how much you agree with all of these ones that I listed here.

• 42:04Amanda Dobbins?

  I think they're good. I think most of them were non-starters.

• 42:08Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:09Amanda Dobbins?

  And some of that is for personal preference. Uh, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is, I think, one that would be on a lot of people's lists. And if it were just you, it might be on the list.

• 42:19Sean Fennessey?

  It would have been on my list.

• 42:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 42:20Sean Fennessey?

  It would have been on my 25.

• 42:22Amanda Dobbins?

  I respect that movie, but it's just never been my bag. So, um, and even, and then Kirsten Dunst is in it. We could have gone three for three.

• 42:31Sean Fennessey?

  Wow.

• 42:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 42:31Sean Fennessey?

  Wow.

• 42:32Amanda Dobbins?

  But, uh.

• 42:33Sean Fennessey?

  Spoiler alert that Spider-Man 2 is not on this list.

• 42:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Nor is, what, Bachelorette?

• 42:40Sean Fennessey?

  No, not in contention.

• 42:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, it's good. It's, I mean, it's, it's pretty good.

• 42:45Sean Fennessey?

  It's pretty, it's not, it's.

• 42:47Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not in the.

• 42:48Sean Fennessey?

  Bachelorette over Eternal Sunshine would be a choice.

• 42:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, it's one I would make. Anyway, Brokeback Mountain is like sort of the obvious one, but like we, like the Academy.

• 42:56Sean Fennessey?

  Another Asian filmmaker, Ang Lee, you know.

• 42:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 43:00Sean Fennessey?

  We, we, you purposefully overlooking this film as a, as a shout out to the Academy? What number is crashed on our list? I forget.

• 43:08Amanda Dobbins?

  I was gonna say, we like the Academy have once again disrespected Brokeback Mountain.

• 43:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. I, I don't know how I feel about this. I haven't rewatched Brokeback Mountain in a while.

• 43:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 43:18Sean Fennessey?

  I, I, I thought it was brilliant. I loved it when it came out. I was very moved by it.

• 43:25Sean Fennessey?

  I haven't seen it in a long time, so I guess I never really strongly considered.

• 43:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Also a movie about restraint and, and.

• 43:32Sean Fennessey?

  It is. They do fuck in that movie, though.

• 43:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, that is true. Past Lives.

• 43:37Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 43:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 43:38Sean Fennessey?

  A movie that obviously hugely influenced by this movie.

• 43:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. Call Me By Your Name. Lot of, not so much restraint in that one.

• 43:45Sean Fennessey?

  Well, not if you're a peach.

• 43:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Portrait of a Lady on Fire. I, this is a movie I like very much.

• 43:55Sean Fennessey?

  Me too.

• 43:56Amanda Dobbins?

  And.

• 43:56Sean Fennessey?

  Not quite there. Real classic, like four and a half versus five star situation for me. I know that sounds stupid, but it is how I feel.

• 44:02Amanda Dobbins?

  What about five stars versus like five plus?

• 44:05Sean Fennessey?

  No, that doesn't exist.

• 44:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, wait, it can in my book.

• 44:07Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 44:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, Moonlight.

• 44:09Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 44:09Amanda Dobbins?

  And Far From Heaven and Carol, the, the Todd Haynes, Julianne Moore, no, Julianne Moore and then Carol, Cate Blanchett.

• 44:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. I don't know. There's no Todd Haynes movie on this list. Todd Haynes.

• 44:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 44:22Sean Fennessey?

  Really one of my faves, one of my favorite directors ever. And I think you, you like him. You like his movies.

• 44:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 44:31Sean Fennessey?

  I'm turning that over in my mind that he doesn't have a movie on this list.

• 44:33Amanda Dobbins?

  There are a lot of people who don't have movies on this list.

• 44:35Sean Fennessey?

  I know.

• 44:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, as we get closer and closer.

• 44:36Sean Fennessey?

  A lot of our favorites, you know, it's like, okay, so no Barry Jenkins movie.

• 44:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 44:40Sean Fennessey?

  I'm sorry to say, no Damien Chazelle movie, you know?

• 44:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Wow, you're spoiling that now?

• 44:43Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 44:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 44:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, we're at seven. I mean, I think people are starting to do the math here.

• 44:47Amanda Dobbins?

  That's true. There are some that are, some people are still holding on to that, uh.

• 44:51Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 44:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I think is funny.

• 44:52Sean Fennessey?

  Like what? Like Barbie?

• 44:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, how'd you know? Lost in Translation, it's obviously standing in for, but.

• 44:58Sean Fennessey?

  It is.

• 44:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Um.

• 44:59Sean Fennessey?

  But she's good. Sophie is taken care of.

• 45:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, she's fine.

• 45:02Sean Fennessey?

  Recommended if you like.

• 45:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 45:05Sean Fennessey?

  Chunking Express, of course.

• 45:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 45:06Sean Fennessey?

  You saying that that is the most logical favorite Wong, if it's not this movie.

• 45:13Sean Fennessey?

  And Chunking Express, you may recall, maybe you don't recall, I was put onto that movie by Quentin Tarantino.

• 45:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 45:18Sean Fennessey?

  And that's a big reason why I have such a big Wong fandom and awareness as a 13 year old. And which in America, which is very unusual. David Lean's Brief Encounter, I think is

• 45:28Amanda Dobbins?

  A classic.

• 45:29Sean Fennessey?

  Kind of a hallmark for this movie. I would imagine it's a movie that Wong is referencing at times. A beautiful 1940s movie about discontinued love, secret love. The Bridges of Madison County.

• 45:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 45:44Sean Fennessey?

  Which is a darn good romance.

• 45:46Amanda Dobbins?

  One we talk about very much.

• 45:48Sean Fennessey?

  We don't. That would be kind of an interesting 90s romances would be an interesting episode for us because you have a lot of

• 45:54Amanda Dobbins?

  I do.

• 45:55Sean Fennessey?

  Knowledge of those films.

• 45:56Amanda Dobbins?

  I do, grew up on them.

• 45:57Sean Fennessey?

  I'm a little allergic to the romance movie. It has to be really good for me to be into it.

• 46:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 46:01Sean Fennessey?

  So I would want to talk about that movie.

• 46:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Same. And I think we're getting a lot of not very good ones right now. But yeah, I added English Patient, which another 90s romance.

• 46:12Sean Fennessey?

  Absolutely.

• 46:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. And, and a little bit also like a thwarted romance set in larger historical context and conflict.

• 46:22Sean Fennessey?

  A time of great change.

• 46:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, that one is more

• 46:27Amanda Dobbins?

  literal about it, but speaks to the same thing.

• 46:31Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, six more left.

• 46:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 46:33Sean Fennessey?

  You feel good?

• 46:35Amanda Dobbins?

  I do.

• 46:36Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 46:36Amanda Dobbins?

  I like, I like all of the movies that are left. Well, we have, well, there's one we have to decide.

• 46:41Sean Fennessey?

  I think there's some potential deal making to be done right now.

• 46:45Sean Fennessey?

  I've been giving it some thought about, I will share it privately.

• 46:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 46:48Sean Fennessey?

  Next week with you.

• 46:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, you're not sharing it this week?

• 46:50Sean Fennessey?

  Nope.

• 46:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Why?

• 46:52Sean Fennessey?

  I want you to think about what it might be and then come with a counter offer. And you're going to say, I thought you were going to say, and it'll be a great moment. We'll record it and then we won't release it.

• 47:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 47:00Sean Fennessey?

  Until 2046. Thank you to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. Later this week, we're talking about Begonia.

• 47:09Amanda Dobbins?

  That's right.

• 47:10Sean Fennessey?

  From Yorgos Lanthimos. And we're going to do the Best Picture power rankings for November. And I don't fucking know what's going on.

• 47:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Nor do I.

• 47:19Sean Fennessey?

  Five through 10, I have no idea.

• 47:23Sean Fennessey?

  It could go in many directions right now. It seems very unsettled in a way that hopefully will be interesting to discuss and for people to listen to at home.

• 47:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, we'll be chaotic about it regardless.

• 47:32Sean Fennessey?

  We always are. Thanks, Amanda. Okay, we'll see you soon.

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