The Daniel Day-Lewis Hall of Fame

Sean and Amanda are joined by David Sims of the Blank Check podcast to commemorate the incredible career of Daniel Day-Lewis. They begin the show by debating whether or not 2025 has been a good year for movies, and they forecast what the fall slate will look like (2:34). Then, they discuss Day-Lewis’s return to acting with ‘Anemone,’ directed by his son Ronan Day-Lewis (14:14). Finally, they work through the entire career and filmography of the legendary actor (20:28) and build his Hall of Fame (39:28). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: David Sims Producer: Jack Sanders and Belle Roman Unlock an extra $250 at linkedin.com/thebigpicture Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Sean Fennessey?

  I'm Sean Fantasy.

• 0:10Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm Amanda Dobbins.

• 0:11Sean Fennessey?

  And this is the Big Picture at Conversation Show about Daniel Day-Lewis. Today on the show, Amanda and I will build a shrine to the man many believe to be the finest actor of his generation. Joining us to do so, one of the finest podcasters of his generation.

• 0:24Speaker 02

  Absolutely not.

• 0:25Sean Fennessey?

  From Blank Check, David Sims.

• 0:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 0:27Sean Fennessey?

  Let's go.

• 0:28Amanda Dobbins?

  And the winner.

• 0:28Speaker 02

  Hi, everybody.

• 0:29Amanda Dobbins?

  The winner of the most recent draft.

• 0:30Sean Fennessey?

  That's right.

• 0:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 0:31Sean Fennessey?

  Here for your victory lap. We didn't plan this, but we sort of did.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Well, we planned like a week of us all together.

• 0:37Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 0:38Speaker 02

  Like, we're having, this is my second of four encounters with at least one of you guys. I did win.

• 0:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 0:45Speaker 02

  I did win. I was not planning to win.

• 0:47Amanda Dobbins?

  But everyone I spoke to afterwards was like, I gotta be honest, I voted for David. That's not true.

• 0:52Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 0:52Amanda Dobbins?

  My friends voted for me, but everyone else voted for me.

• 0:54Sean Fennessey?

  My own niece and sister.

• 0:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, came up to me.

• 0:57Sean Fennessey?

  Looked me in the eye and said, I did not vote for you, I voted for David.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  You, you went very male.

• 1:02Sean Fennessey?

  I did.

• 1:02Speaker 02

  I think inadvertently.

• 1:04Sean Fennessey?

  No, it was inadvertently.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Well, sure, but you had like, maybe not quite enough diversity.

• 1:08Sean Fennessey?

  That's true.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Of.

• 1:09Sean Fennessey?

  I just kind of blinked a couple of times and I was like, ah, Scorsese. Like, I couldn't really, you know, I couldn't think out of it.

• 1:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  I was talking about it like, it's like, it was an overwhelming, like, too many choices.

• 1:18Sean Fennessey?

  There was a lot of choices. It was maybe too broad a palette, but you know what? It was a very fun draft. It was a great live show. Thank you to everyone who came. That was amazing. Thank you to everybody who helped to put it on.

• 1:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Thank you to you and Griffin for being part of it. I should have brought you a crown now to be wearing. You know, I was sad I didn't have one in the moment.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  People kept being like, what did you win? And I'm like, nothing, just glory.

• 1:37Sean Fennessey?

  A twelve block walk to a bar that you did not enter. That's what you're on.

• 1:41Speaker 02

  That was, that's, look, man.

• 1:43Amanda Dobbins?

  You missed some jams.

• 1:44Speaker 02

  That's some father of three business where I just, I just took one look at that bar and I was like, you know what? I enjoyed the walk. I'm getting on the train. The queue's right here.

• 1:54Sean Fennessey?

  This episode is presented by LinkedIn Ads.

• 1:56Amanda Dobbins?

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• 2:03Sean Fennessey?

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• 2:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Try it out. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn Ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com/thebigpicture. Terms and conditions apply.

• 2:34Sean Fennessey?

  I would be remiss if, having you here, we didn't talk about something beyond the topic at hand, because you're one of the great working film critics.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Thanks. That's also not true.

• 2:46Sean Fennessey?

  This is true. And it's been an interesting year at the movies. We haven't really done, we're starting to do Oscar ranking stuff. We're starting to look at how things have been going, but we haven't spent a lot of time saying, has this been a good slate of movies?

• 3:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Just Googled 2025 movies.

• 3:03Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that's how we learn how to do it.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'm coming in hot, but it's a weird year. I haven't seen everything from this sort of fall, right, batch? Like, I still haven't seen Hamlet. I haven't seen Marty Supreme or whatever.

• 3:17Sean Fennessey?

  But that just makes you like most other people.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  But I've seen a fair amount of the fall stuff.

• 3:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Have you seen most of the Cannes stuff?

• 3:23Speaker 02

  I've seen all the Cannes stuff, and I've seen...

• 3:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Lucky for you.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  I mean, most of it, at least. It's a flop fall, right? We can kind of agree, like, it's sort of like a weird festival year. It feels like a weird year for awards-y movies, but maybe not a bad year for movies.

• 3:36Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  It's just kind of settling in a way that it often won't, where I keep a running, you know, yearly list, starting in January, right? I just start, I rank my movies.

• 3:46Sean Fennessey?

  And you keep it public all year.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  Keep it public. And it's a living document. I kind of, you know, I'll settle on something and I'll be like, you know what? That's sticking with me. Let's bump it up. Or I'll see something and I'll be like, eh. And often, you'll get the kind of Sundance-y stuff at the start, and you'll watch it kind of get pushed down. It hasn't really gotten pushed down, except by, like, these sort of big movies that resonated with me, like The Sinners, Weapons, One Battle.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  And 28 years later, which I think is sort of the underrated, like those were the ones where I was like, I can't stop thinking about those movies. Let me look at my list. I don't know. What do you guys think?

• 4:21Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, this is very similar for me, that quartet. There are a couple of movies that I have really liked from the fall festivals that we haven't had time to talk about yet. No Other Choice, Testament of Ann Lee, a couple of things that I know will be near the top of my list.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  Haven't seen Ann Lee, loved No Other Choice.

• 4:37Sean Fennessey?

  But Flop Fall is interesting. I mean, you know, we went to the festivals and we wanted to be excited about as much as we could be.

• 4:44Amanda Dobbins?

  And we tried.

• 4:46Sean Fennessey?

  And there were some cool things, but I came away feeling like most of what was great was at Cannes. And from in that cohort.

• 4:56Speaker 02

  The things I liked the most are the sentimental value and the, it was just like, which were both Cannes movies. It's just an accident. Hmm. Yeah. Is there anything else?

• 5:06Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, the problem is, is like Flop Fall leaves out one battle after another.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 5:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Which, and the thing about it is that for me, with the exception of Sinners, it was a little bit of like a flop spring and flop summer.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  And also fair.

• 5:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, was kept waiting for the, we had a lot of anticipation of the fall season because I think everything felt a little flat.

• 5:33Speaker 02

  Rebirth.

• 5:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Where are you on Jurassic World Rebirth? So angry. Oh, that's right. Because Alex Ross Perry.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  No, he does not influence me.

• 5:41Amanda Dobbins?

  No, no, no.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  That man has no sway over. No, I love you, Alex.

• 5:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Hello, Alex.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:47Amanda Dobbins?

  He recapped to me the interaction on your physical media.

• 5:53Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, we have a little group chat.

• 5:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Chat about everyone else's hatred of Jurassic World Rebirth. And then Alex was like, but I told them that it's everything that's good about going to the movies. Which I don't know if I think that, but it's still really funny that they put a giant dinosaur park in Cobble Hill. That's really, here we are in New York City and I'm just like, that is expensive real estate.

• 6:16Sean Fennessey?

  And when I saw that, I thought, we're in for a great time. And then we didn't get a great time.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  Scarjo is in Dumbo or whatever. Yeah. Like in her car going like, God, this traffic. Cause the brontosaurus died. I gotta get to my job as a assassin, like whatever my game, special op. Isn't she like 410?

• 6:32Sean Fennessey?

  She's a lioness.

• 6:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Jonathan Bailey doing Bringing Up Baby, like, I'm here for it. That's good.

• 6:39Sean Fennessey?

  I'm glad.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  Oh, that movie stunk. It is the classic.

• 6:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Did you know it was shot on film?

• 6:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess so.

• 6:46Sean Fennessey?

  Doesn't prove anything at this point.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  Right, I mean, I'm always like with that, I'm like, yeah dude, what's, I mean, like, you know, what's a bad movie? Tell me a bad movie from the 90s.

• 6:54Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm, Sliver?

• 6:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was shot, well, that's a pretty good movie.

• 6:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's a great movie.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  No, Sliver is bad. Jade is good.

• 7:02Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Sliver is bad.

• 7:03Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  I think I'll go there, right? Like, I bought, yes, I bought The Vinegar Syndrome, Sliver.

• 7:08Sean Fennessey?

  You know, I didn't buy that.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Well, my friend Beatrice wrote the essay. Of course, you gotta buy Jade.

• 7:13Sean Fennessey?

  Jade, you know, Friedkin.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  But I did, I did hit purchase going like, this is a 3 out of 10 movie. Like, this is not a good movie.

• 7:20Sean Fennessey?

  It's really bad. Watched it, I watched the first 48 minutes of it with my dad when I was 12, so not ideal.

• 7:25Amanda Dobbins?

  I bought a leather jacket on the subway this morning for $70.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  On the subway?

• 7:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, I bought it. No, no, no, no, like, I was on the subway train, like, you know.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Sir, I have your jacket, I'm willing to pay you $70.

• 7:39Amanda Dobbins?

  No, you know what, I think $60 with shipping, so there we go.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  $60 with shipping?

• 7:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 7:43Sean Fennessey?

  Are you sure that's real leather?

• 7:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it's from eBay, you know? Like, I'm here for the deals.

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• 9:20Speaker 02

  2025 movies, it's just like, I don't think it's, well, it's interesting because one battle is this totemic thing, and it is kind of the year of like, hey, studios took chances on slight chances on slightly more original things. And it worked.

• 9:36Amanda Dobbins?

  By studios, you mean Warner Brothers.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  We mean the good people at Warner Brothers.

• 9:39Amanda Dobbins?

  For now.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  Right?

• 9:41Sean Fennessey?

  This is me knocking on wood.

• 9:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I can't even, let's not.

• 9:45Speaker 02

  Soon we'll just say studio. We'll just be like, the studio. There's just gonna be one, right?

• 9:50Amanda Dobbins?

  And we'll be called the Free Press.

• 9:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's trending in that direction right now.

• 9:55Speaker 02

  But like, I don't, I do think there's a lot of sort of noble, interesting efforts, like J. Kelly, Smashing Machine, Highest to Lowest, like movies where I found a lot to like, but I was not like, walking out.

• 10:10Sean Fennessey?

  But it's your, not even your favorite movie from those filmmakers, right?

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Certainly not.

• 10:14Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah. I agree. I feel very familiar about all three of those. I'm like, there's stuff in all three of these movies I dig.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:20Sean Fennessey?

  It's not their best films. It's also all three of them kind of trying something a little bit different and maybe not totally grasping everything that they went for, but I like them.

• 10:27Speaker 02

  Also, and this is inside baseball, but all of these movies, so many of these movies, picked the wrong rollout. And it's like, that only matters to people like me, but like, when J. Kelly's at Venice, I'm like, no, like Toronto, like I need to, someone just needs to

• 10:41Amanda Dobbins?

  No, you're right.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  Put me on a chair and the studios come to me and they're like, no bomb back film, it's kind of an insider Hollywood thing. It's set in Italy and I'm like, I don't care that it's set in Italy.

• 10:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  No, no, no, Italy will not like that. Guess who's gonna like that? George Clooney's in it? Toronto, you're going to Toronto, baby. You know, like, they, they're all playing games from like five years ago. They are all like, well, Lady Gaga rode a boat. I'm like, I don't care that she rode a boat.

• 11:01Amanda Dobbins?

  I care.

• 11:02Speaker 02

  Do you wanna be? I mean, I do care that she did that, obviously.

• 11:05Sean Fennessey?

  Let's talk more about that role that you could have.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  You gotta find your audience, like, to hype up, you know, to get your momentum.

• 11:11Sean Fennessey?

  Do you wanna be a czar? Or do you wanna be a backstage advisor?

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Right, like a shadowy figure.

• 11:18Sean Fennessey?

  You wanna be paid by the studios to do this, or will you do a pro bono?

• 11:21Speaker 02

  Do pro bono.

• 11:22Sean Fennessey?

  Wow.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  No, I'm joking.

• 11:23Sean Fennessey?

  Just they'll just tell you what a movie is about and you'll say, you go here, this is your release date.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  But don't, you don't you know what I mean?

• 11:29Sean Fennessey?

  I do.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  It's like J. Kelly or even Smashing Machine, like where you're just like, I think if you want to get some momentum, you gotta like, you know, you can't play to a European audience with some of this stuff because they're just not gonna be into, I don't know, like, there's just been a few like that.

• 11:43Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I, I liked Testament of Emily a lot and I'm really happy that Searchlight bought it.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 11:49Amanda Dobbins?

  I watched more old Italian people walk out of that film, like angrily, than, than I saw at any other movie. And they, and you know, that's, and that's, that's on the old Italian people, you know, who, it's, it's their fault.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:03Amanda Dobbins?

  But it's, you're right, that they're not really matching.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  Eddington, a movie I liked.

• 12:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  And I know Ari wanted to go to Cannes or whatever, but like, that's not a Cannes movie.

• 12:12Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 12:13Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Those Frenchies don't wanna hear that.

• 12:15Sean Fennessey?

  No, that would've done great at Venice.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Yes, it would've.

• 12:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  Anyway, who cares? No one listens to me. And these movies are here and it doesn't matter, in the long run, we'll think about them later, like, but it does just kinda feel like, if I'm like a median Oscar voter, all of that stuff's bouncing off me. All these sort of Fall Festival movies are not really catching.

• 12:32Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  And so it will come down to these bigger movies, which is gonna make for like a kind of a different award season, I guess. That's nice.

• 12:40Sean Fennessey?

  Particularly if Wicked and Avatar are, are going in, and then all of a sudden you have a race that's Wicked, Avatar, Sinners, One Battle. That's a lot of bigger movies.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  Can I say something really foolish? Just foolish. I should not say this. slightest concern about Avatar?

• 12:59Sean Fennessey?

  Me too. I've been saying, we've been keeping it out.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  Not quality wise.

• 13:02Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah, just in the race. Words wise.

• 13:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, fatigue. I get it.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  Like, the way they re-released Way of Water.

• 13:11Sean Fennessey?

  This past weekend.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  And everyone was like, yeah, I don't care about that.

• 13:14Amanda Dobbins?

  We don't have four hours to go.

• 13:15Speaker 02

  Right, right. I gotta go watch a lyric video.

• 13:18Sean Fennessey?

  Taylor Swift with a bullet in the head of that strategy as well.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Exactly, right. And then she put a bullet in a couple heads, but like, like, I'm just detecting like, and it look, this happened with Way of Water a little bit, where everyone was like, does anyone even care about Avatar? And it's like, you know what? It's Christmas and people want to go see a big movie and they have a good time.

• 13:34Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  That will happen again, I assume. Just slightly.

• 13:37Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's gonna do well at the box office, not as big as Way of Water. I similarly, in the awards race, we're just speculating, who the fuck knows? But it feels like it, maybe you could have waited two or three more years so that everyone could forget a little bit more, and maybe we haven't forgotten enough how special these movies are.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  Happy that we have it. Like, I'm not mad that it, you know, I'm happy to watch it.

• 14:00Sean Fennessey?

  What I saw at CinemaCon, I was like, let's go. Light me on fire.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  Volcano.

• 14:05Sean Fennessey?

  I'm into it. You don't care.

• 14:06Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I don't. I mean, I left before the Disney presentation. And I do, the Chris Ryan breakout video of, I've never seen Avatar, I don't care why are you spending your life on this, like, that got traction for a reason.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  No, of course.

• 14:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Even among, I have seen both films in theaters, and I'm like, wow, a technical marvel. But like, I don't really care. You know, I sit down, I watch them, I say, uh-huh, Sigourney Weaver, glad to see you in, you know, different blue representations.

• 14:35Sean Fennessey?

  Sure.

• 14:35Amanda Dobbins?

  And then I move on with my life. So it just feels like.

• 14:39Sean Fennessey?

  Pyecon, yeah, the beautiful whale.

• 14:40Amanda Dobbins?

  The whale was very beautiful. Was that whale before or after the powerful sea creature in the second Black Panther?

• 14:53Sean Fennessey?

  I believe that came-

• 14:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Or was that an underwater world?

• 14:55Sean Fennessey?

  Directly-

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, Captain Black Panther was-

• 14:58Amanda Dobbins?

  What was-

• 14:58Sean Fennessey?

  Twenty-two?

• 14:59Amanda Dobbins?

  What was going on there?

• 14:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was right after, and that was just a world. Aquaman had a powerful sea creature voiced by Julie Andrews.

• 15:06Sean Fennessey?

  That's right.

• 15:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Really?

• 15:06Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 15:07Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm just learning that right now. No one told me.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  That's a good movie. Have you seen that movie?

• 15:11Amanda Dobbins?

  I've never seen an Aquaman movie.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Do you like Patrick Wilson?

• 15:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, I do, and I have heard about that.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  Exactly. How do you feel about Patrick Wilson being the ocean master?

• 15:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, um, you know, someone has to do it, so...

• 15:22Speaker 02

  That's his opinion.

• 15:23Amanda Dobbins?

  And I would put him-

• 15:24Speaker 02

  Others in the film disagree.

• 15:25Sean Fennessey?

  I submitted my resume, not selected for the role of ocean master sadly.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  I, I stand both of those, uh, Aquaman.

• 15:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Without spoilers, great Patrick Wilson moment this Fall Festival season, so I'm, you know-

• 15:35Sean Fennessey?

  Let's not spoil that for everybody.

• 15:37Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm always happy to see him.

• 15:38Sean Fennessey?

  I saw him in the trailer of the movie, and I was like, "Don't do that."

• 15:40Amanda Dobbins?

  I agree.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, no show.

• 15:41Sean Fennessey?

  Don't do that.

• 15:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Don't do it.

• 15:42Sean Fennessey?

  Anyway.

• 15:43Amanda Dobbins?

  It's a great reveal.

• 15:44Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, okay, so the reason that we're talking about Daniel Day-Lewis today is because he has a new film called Anemone directed by his son, which is a not great movie. It was co-written by Daniel Day-Lewis.

• 15:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, has he ever gotten a writing title before?

• 15:57Sean Fennessey?

  I don't believe so. Um, it's obviously like a, this is a real family affair. Daniel Day-Lewis has done a tremendous amount of press for this movie in support of his son. And so I'm loathe to crush this movie.

• 16:09Speaker 02

  Well, it's not even crushable. It's not a successful movie in my opinion. I don't know, what did you guys think?

• 16:15Amanda Dobbins?

  A thousand percent agree.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's pretty.

• 16:17Sean Fennessey?

  It's, it looks beautiful.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  It's pretty good-looking.

• 16:19Amanda Dobbins?

  I'll tell you-

• 16:20Speaker 02

  Man, it's like-

• 16:21Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, it's, it's like, fine.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  I mean, I-

• 16:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, guess what? Ireland is beautiful, you know?

• 16:25Speaker 02

  I, I think it was Northern England, right?

• 16:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, it was?

• 16:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not Ireland.

• 16:29Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  I thought it was Ireland too.

• 16:31Sean Fennessey?

  I didn't know. I don't know where it was shot.

• 16:32Amanda Dobbins?

  At some point later on in this podcast, we're gonna have like David's-

• 16:37Speaker 02

  I'll try to explain the politics.

• 16:39Amanda Dobbins?

  The Isles corner.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Oh, sure, let's talk Isles.

• 16:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah!

• 16:42Sean Fennessey?

  DDL is perfect for that, given his heritage as well.

• 16:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly, that's what I want to talk about, and, and his, but yes.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  I had the Aretha Franklin, like, beautiful moss, great moss. You know, like, I was just like, "You're look, all these trees look great."

• 16:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 16:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 16:54Sean Fennessey?

  I, I would argue-

• 16:56Amanda Dobbins?

  It's one of my other movie this, this fall.

• 16:57Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, yeah, the trees are everywhere.

• 16:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, and, and the fucking moss, like, you know? Well, you haven't seen it yet, so-

• 17:03Sean Fennessey?

  There's another one too, though. There's two that-

• 17:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, the trains?

• 17:06Sean Fennessey?

  JK, no, the JK has, has some, has trees.

• 17:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, sure.

• 17:11Sean Fennessey?

  Memorable tree sequence.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  Oh, sure, yeah, yeah, right.

• 17:13Sean Fennessey?

  We're talking around the ians, and that's not very nice. The thing about Anemone, the film is very abstract until it isn't.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  Until they all say what's going on.

• 17:22Sean Fennessey?

  And I would argue that they should have not told us. And then you could have said, this is kind of a sleepy movie that's hard to penetrate, but at least you were making a kind of gesture towards a certain kind of cinema. You could have been like, this is my Lindsay film. But then, when the movie explained itself, I was like, I don't know that I really think that that makes, it was a good choice.

• 17:41Amanda Dobbins?

  I would also argue that it does not explain itself very well.

• 17:44Sean Fennessey?

  Plot wise, I think it does.

• 17:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, plot wise, I got the gist, and I was really concentrating. And I would say that some of the politics and like the, you know, the specifics were not nailed down for me. I got it on a, on a big level, but the fact that they go into the specifics and I'm like, uh, I'm a dumb American, you know, it's sort of, doesn't land it.

• 18:10Speaker 02

  That's part of it, but it is also just one of those movies where for 90 minutes of a two hour movie that should be max 85 minutes, but whatever, for most of the movie, everyone's just like, yeah, and ever since the thing that happened, I've been living in this fucking cabin. And Sean means like, you fucking have, and I'm like, uh huh, uh huh. And then finally, eventually, he's like, and by the way, just to explain the thing that happened is this thing, let me talk about it for five minutes. And you're like, okay, we're finally saying, you can't just talk around the thing that everyone knows. Everyone in the movie knows what happened.

• 18:43Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  And so we're just kind of waiting for everyone to kind of pause and just recap for us eventually. It's not great plotting. I sound nitpicky, but.

• 18:52Sean Fennessey?

  It's not, and I think that that's part of why, I'm trying to figure out why even this was the thing that pulled Daniel Day-Lewis out of eight years of seclusion.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  It sounds like it was something he and his son like workshopped as like a character or a little story.

• 19:07Sean Fennessey?

  And it feels like a theater piece.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Sort of snowballed, right. Yeah, they were like, wow, we could expand this.

• 19:12Sean Fennessey?

  Several monologues in the film, many of them focused on Day-Lewis's character.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  Yep, one of them focused on poop.

• 19:18Amanda Dobbins?

  I thought that was the one, right? Yeah, it's amazing.

• 19:21Speaker 02

  It's the most arresting part of the movie.

• 19:22Amanda Dobbins?

  It is, it's memorable, and it's 20 minutes of him just like seeing Jimmy. And then, and then you're like, okay, now we're back in the woods.

• 19:30Sean Fennessey?

  It does go back to the movie.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  Back to the fuck.

• 19:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Woods with me.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  Can I swear? Is that okay?

• 19:34Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Okay, okay. I always forget.

• 19:36Sean Fennessey?

  Anyhow, it had been a long time since Daniel Day-Lewis appeared in a movie. And part of what he has been confronted by in this press run is, why did you retire? What does it mean to retire from acting? And he is, you know, I think, I get the impression he doesn't read a lot of press.

• 19:52Speaker 02

  You don't think this guy is logged on?

• 19:54Sean Fennessey?

  Or consume a lot of content? Because he's like, god damn, I'm just getting this question every time. And I gotta figure out an interesting way to answer the question of why am I not acting anymore?

• 20:02Speaker 02

  He sounds a little contrite and a little like abashed in his sort of way of like, yeah, everyone told me not to say anything. And I really was just not working, you know, versus retired.

• 20:13Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  Never say retired, I guess, is the lesson. You can just sort of say like, I'm taking a break.

• 20:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. I mean, and he, when he did that, when he stepped away after Phantom Thread, he was 60 years old.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:25Sean Fennessey?

  And obviously among the most decorated actors of all time. So for him to just say, like, I'm good, that, it actually is reasonable. I think it's because there is a lot of attendant mythology with Daniel Day-Lewis, that it came with more baggage.

• 20:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Decisions like just not taking on a job for eight years add to. So, you know, you get it.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, the baggage increases. You're right. And, I mean, he said, like, it seems very plausible to me that, like, he does Phantom Thread. For whatever reason, it takes a lot out of him. Probably because it's a demanding, difficult guy that he's playing. And then he's like, he said, like, I saw the press coming. You know, I saw the Oscar stuff coming, right? And I just hate that.

• 21:09Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  And he backed off, like, I feel like he was like, so you know what? I'm kind of retired, like, before that even starts up. He's like, let the movie stand for itself and I'm going away. And, uh, I mean, his son would have been what, like, 20?

• 21:23Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah. And, and- I don't know. I think it's sweet that he made a movie with his son. I really liked that he did that.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:30Sean Fennessey?

  It's nice.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  And his son's got-

• 21:32Sean Fennessey?

  His son's a thirty year old first time filmmaker, you know what I mean? You can tell, you can tell.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  I mean, god, at the press conference at the New York Film Festival afterwards, his son said something along the lines of like, "Well, I've loved Sean Bean since like I saw him in Game of Thrones when I was a kid." And Sean Bean like, put his head in his ass. Sean Bean is like, "That was like my third, you know, wave of my career probably," right? He's thinking like, "I've been fucking acting since the eighties," or you know, like, but there, you know, that's the age he is.

• 21:58Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, let's talk about Daniel Day-Lewis.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  Daniel Day-Lewis.

• 22:02Sean Fennessey?

  He's sixty-eight years old. He was born in London, England.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  Well, his father was poet laureate of the United Kingdom. I don't know if you know that.

• 22:08Sean Fennessey?

  Though he was born in Ireland.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:10Sean Fennessey?

  Cecil Day-Lewis. Cecil or Cecil? Where do you stand on this?

• 22:13Speaker 02

  Cecil, I think is how he's addressed, yeah.

• 22:16Sean Fennessey?

  Immediately, as a young man, went into the theater, studied at the National Youth Theater, the Bristol Old Vic, learned the classical methods of the stage, and then, kind of midstream in his late teens, began to adopt the method.

• 22:32Speaker 02

  Which, I actually, I don't know how that happened, because I do not think of that as British.

• 22:36Sean Fennessey?

  It's, I mean, it's historically not.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 22:39Sean Fennessey?

  And it's unclear, because he historically has been a bit circumspect about discussing, not just his process, but specifically working with the method.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 22:47Sean Fennessey?

  Until this year.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  He's been talking about it.

• 22:49Sean Fennessey?

  Talking about it, which is so interesting. And I think he has been trying to demythologize it in part because of all the baggage that he now carries around because of his career, but he went from, he went, he joined the Royal Shakespeare Company.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:03Sean Fennessey?

  He performed on stage routinely from the late seventies through the mid-eighties until his film career really started to take off. And then he reduced the amount of time he spent on stage.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  Well, he reduced it completely.

• 23:12Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  He had to freak out on stage, and then he never, like, acted again. All we know is that he, his dad had died, and that he like apparently kind of lost it in the middle of being Hamlet during a scene with the ghost, and like left the stage and never returned, and has never acted since.

• 23:27Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  And the whole thing with Daniel Day-Lewis, as you sort of think, is everyone obsesses over every detail of his career in this way of like, that he's so unique, right, that it's like, and that's- That could only happen a day that he was so in it as Hamlet that he saw his own father or whatever, you know, and then like couldn't do it. I don't know. I think he's talked about it maybe a little bit in terms of just he couldn't, he wasn't, doesn't like the stage aspect as much or I don't know, but like that's the end of it. He's never ever touched the stage again.

• 23:56Sean Fennessey?

  So he has been

• 23:57Speaker 02

  It's cool.

• 23:58Sean Fennessey?

  Primarily a film actor.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  Entirely.

• 24:00Sean Fennessey?

  It adds to that myth.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  I don't think he's ever done television.

• 24:03Sean Fennessey?

  Some four BBC projects.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  I guess like TV movies.

• 24:06Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think he may have done one or two episodic TV spots in the eighties.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Show he could join now, like, like season six of the morning show.

• 24:14Sean Fennessey?

  Uh.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  It's just like, you know, like.

• 24:16Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, I would like to see him on the pit. I think that that would be cool. Because he would bring a

• 24:22Speaker 02

  But then, but then it would

• 24:22Sean Fennessey?

  An intensity that is appropriate.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  And it would just be like, he's just still an ER doctor.

• 24:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure, but then think of the lives he's saving, you know?

• 24:28Speaker 02

  Maybe they're all like, he's not that good. He's just an actor. All the, all the other pit ER doctors.

• 24:33Sean Fennessey?

  That's true. Uh, Peacemaker, season three?

• 24:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 24:36Amanda Dobbins?

  What happens on the Peacemaker?

• 24:37Sean Fennessey?

  They make peace?

• 24:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure, but who's, you know?

• 24:40Sean Fennessey?

  There are heroes confronting fascism.

• 24:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 24:43Sean Fennessey?

  And reckoning with its toll.

• 24:44Amanda Dobbins?

  They're superheroes that make peace.

• 24:45Speaker 02

  Uh, I mean, I've only seen some of, uh, season one of Peacemaker. I keep meaning to fill that in because I'm told it's very important to understanding Superman or something.

• 24:53Sean Fennessey?

  There are lots of relevant.

• 24:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  But he's like a knockoff Captain America guy who's shitty, right? Like he's like a sort of patriotic hero guy, John Cena.

• 25:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, okay.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  And it's mostly about him, like, I feel like the show, in the movie he was in, he was a sort of a villain, but in the show, he's kind of trying to chart some kind of path beyond villainy, right?

• 25:13Sean Fennessey?

  I think season two took a really strong turn into white nationalism.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:18Amanda Dobbins?

  I sort of stopped listening.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  I think he gets sucked into a white nationalist universe or something. It's mostly, I'm seeing Twitter memes. I gotta, I gotta catch up.

• 25:26Sean Fennessey?

  We should turn this show into a Peacemaker show. Just only recap Peacemaker.

• 25:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I was trying to understand.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  And just like a DCU rumors show.

• 25:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, yeah, great. And then, and then my buddy Jim Gump could just come and feel like a single one. That would be great.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  It's not, not a Superman movie.

• 25:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Let's tweet live from this show.

• 25:43Sean Fennessey?

  I'm glad that we're talking about Peacemaker.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Batman down to forty guys. And I'll show you the list, but only far away, like this.

• 25:50Sean Fennessey?

  Could DDL have been Batman?

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Uh, hmm.

• 25:53Sean Fennessey?

  I say yes.

• 25:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. Oh, yeah. Well, it is the hamlet of the modern time. No, but like you're.

• 25:59Sean Fennessey?

  Thank you for saying that out loud.

• 26:00Amanda Dobbins?

  I've said that before.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  Isn't Joker the hamlet of the modern time?

• 26:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Well.

• 26:04Speaker 02

  In that there's two Oscar winners who have played the Joker.

• 26:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, but like dad issues.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:10Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, I'm taking on the mantle, but like, and I'm rich, but like, I'm really not happy about it.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:16Amanda Dobbins?

  And the women around me keep dying.

• 26:18Sean Fennessey?

  My dad's dead.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, and like I live in a cave and stuff, you know?

• 26:22Speaker 02

  Don't you love how Clooney plays it though, where it's like, the women don't, it's just like, he's like, I just don't really want to marry Elle McPherson. Like, that's the extent of his drama in Batman and Robin. Batman, yeah. Could he have played Batman? Sure. I wonder, like, I doubt. There was never even the vaguest approach to him, even in his nineties hot guy era.

• 26:41Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know, but we will talk about the nineties and what he could have done.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  The shadow, like, you know, like, not even, forget even like a costumed hero.

• 26:48Sean Fennessey?

  You get the impression that he's never been intrigued by anything resembling commercial Hollywood.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  Who's his agent? Like, like, how does it work with?

• 26:56Sean Fennessey?

  You make it sound like I know the agents of all major stars.

• 26:59Speaker 02

  Now, now, tell me now.

• 27:00Amanda Dobbins?

  It does feel like it's sort of a Bill Murray, like hotline experience, but it's like, instead of like a carrier pigeon, you know, like, that circles around for a while.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  It always feels like, right, you get.

• 27:10Sean Fennessey?

  Someone whispers in the wind and it makes its way across the, across the world.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Right, like, it was, right, it was Michael Mann, when I interviewed him for Ferrari, said like, oh yeah, when I was in London, I got dinner with Dan. And you're like, right, he's around. It's not like he lives, he's a person.

• 27:24Amanda Dobbins?

  The last eight years, you were like, he's been in hiding. And it's like, no, actually, he's just been like wandering around the West Village, looking cool as hell, you know?

• 27:32Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 27:33Amanda Dobbins?

  It's like the West Village girlies and DDL. Like, it's like, maybe he's doing Pilates for all I know, you know?

• 27:39Speaker 02

  He might be, hot Pilates. But yeah, like, and I think it's like, you get dinner with him and back in the day when he was working more, maybe you would be like. You know, what if there was like a really weird fucking dressmaker and he's like, I mean, I don't know how it works.

• 27:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, let's talk, can we talk about the shoes for a second?

• 27:56Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 27:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Because this is not like the first time he's quote unquote stepped away from acting.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 28:01Amanda Dobbins?

  And for a while, for three years.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  Post The Boxer, pre Gangs of New York.

• 28:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. He was like, now I'm gonna go be an apprentice to an Italian. Have we ever seen the Italian shoes that he made?

• 28:12Speaker 02

  No. We could get on eBay.

• 28:14Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, but have they been released?

• 28:16Speaker 02

  No.

• 28:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, do we know what kind of shoemaker? Do we know the styles?

• 28:19Speaker 02

  They're just for him.

• 28:21Amanda Dobbins?

  But, okay, is he wearing them?

• 28:23Speaker 02

  Gifts for his family.

• 28:24Amanda Dobbins?

  That what I was, what I'm saying is like, I could be a customer, you know? I would be interested and I don't know enough about the shoes.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm look.

• 28:31Amanda Dobbins?

  You're Googling now?

• 28:32Speaker 02

  I'm Goog, but I mean, I think the whole thing was that he was like, I like a craft. I liked learning at the foot of a genius, like how to do this.

• 28:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, Stefano Beamer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, these, these look like.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  These look like very nice Italian leather shoes.

• 28:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure, you know, like the Italian John Lob or whatever. I get it. I guess this is not really. He could make a nice loafer for me.

• 28:57Sean Fennessey?

  What you're describing is the excursions during the long periods of time between acting roles, particularly in the second half of his career. Cause in the first half of his career, he's more or less working every year.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Right, absolutely.

• 29:10Sean Fennessey?

  He is a staple of, I would say mostly British cinema.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:14Sean Fennessey?

  From the eighties and early nineties. And then in the nineties, he kind of sort of becomes a movie star. And we'll talk through each film and everything, but you know, you can see he's resistant to it though too.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  He's resistant to it, but he is, starting with, I mean, we should go through it to pinpoint exactly, but it's sort of around Mohicans.

• 29:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 29:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  It's like, yeah, he's a guy where it's like you put his face on the poster. You put his name above the title.

• 29:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  I don't care if it's an artier movie, like that will intrigue people.

• 29:40Sean Fennessey?

  So we will go through every single movie here in this conversation, so.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  It's not that many.

• 29:44Sean Fennessey?

  It's not.

• 29:44Amanda Dobbins?

  And then some of them are weird.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  And some of them are weird.

• 29:47Sean Fennessey?

  I, I have watched every single movie.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  Same.

• 29:49Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I have not because I'm gonna, I slept through my alarm. I'm sorry.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  It's totally fine, Amanda.

• 29:54Sean Fennessey?

  Some of them are very negligible. We'll get to those movies. But some of them are like, some of the great acting achievements on screen of the last 40 years legitimately.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  The whole thing, and we have to talk about, like, well, we'll talk about lots of them. But you know, when you, when, where we were thinking, okay, what's a podcast? We, I wanted to do a Hall of Fame. We were looking at guys on the release calendar and girls. Guys and gals.

• 30:14Sean Fennessey?

  We were.

• 30:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  And we hit on, oh, no, no, no, many. And I was like, oh, let me see like which I haven't seen. It was like five movies.

• 30:21Sean Fennessey?

  A bunch.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  I've seen most of his movies.

• 30:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, there aren't, like, there are a lot, but there aren't that many. But they are, as you said, some of the great screen performances. But I wouldn't say that this is a Hall of Fame of like the greatest complete works of cinema.

• 30:35Sean Fennessey?

  They're movies that are built around him.

• 30:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 30:36Sean Fennessey?

  They're, and at a certain point in his career, there is where it sort of becomes like, well, you've got Daniel Day Lewis. And so with that, like, the bar has been raised in terms of how much you'll be able to make this movie work, even if the movie doesn't come together the way you want it to.

• 30:49Speaker 02

  He's in several, he's in a few, like, great, great, great films. But you're right that it's not right. It's, it's, it's often more of like a very good, a very interesting. I don't know. And he's in a lot of movies I love.

• 31:02Sean Fennessey?

  What do you guys think defines him as an actor? Not as a star, but as an actor?

• 31:08Speaker 02

  It's just super chill.

• 31:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, like relaxed.

• 31:11Sean Fennessey?

  Well, we know, we know that he applies the method, right? That he stays in character during, on set, but you wouldn't know that unless someone told you that, right? Like.

• 31:19Amanda Dobbins?

  But at some point, someone did tell us that. And I do think that we watch every performance now, knowing that. I can't divorce my, like, my, my understanding of him from.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  He's been shrouded in that for me since I was a teenager. Gangs of New York will probably be the first movie he was in that I was like, you know, a plugged in film fan, right? Like, but he doesn't play normal guys. And we're gonna talk about it, but like, this is a filmography. It was only a couple of times he played kind of like a contemporary guy who like lives in a house and goes around being normal.

• 31:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  Right?

• 31:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  Is that, that's, that's how.

• 31:54Sean Fennessey?

  Just like me, a normal guy who goes around, lives in a house, being normal.

• 31:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  He tends to do period movies.

• 32:01Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  He tends to do movies where there's, you can sense a transformation. Even if it's like not as extreme, like even if it's not big makeup or, like, you can just sense that like.

• 32:12Sean Fennessey?

  Accent.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  You sense it.

• 32:14Sean Fennessey?

  Facial hair.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 32:15Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 32:16Speaker 02

  And it's like he and Meryl Streep, I feel like were the, were the kings of this when I was a kid of like the two actors where you're like, they're always doing something.

• 32:23Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  And with Meryl, it was usually a big accent or something, or White Water Rafting.

• 32:28Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:29Speaker 02

  And with him.

• 32:30Sean Fennessey?

  That river was wild.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  It was so wild. And with him, it would be like, oh, he's gonna do. You know, kind of like a quiet drama about like sort of what happened to the young people in the IRA who got out of prison. But he also fucking got ripped and is like a champion boxer now. You know what I mean? Like it was like, it could never just be this. Anemone is one of the sleepiest, smallest movies he's ever made. Like, and even then it feels huge immersed in it. I mean, he probably went off and lived in the woods. Has he talked about?

• 32:57Sean Fennessey?

  I don't think he talked about the pride. I think he's maybe trying to avoid getting kind of down by that.

• 33:01Amanda Dobbins?

  But this seems one of the easier ones of like, he had a little house in the woods.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it sounds great.

• 33:06Amanda Dobbins?

  You know?

• 33:07Speaker 02

  Sign me up.

• 33:07Amanda Dobbins?

  The kitchen, I saw the, I like, I understand how he made his food. You know, they have displayed all of that in the film, so.

• 33:13Sean Fennessey?

  But he probably had to think about all that. I don't know. I'm maybe, I'm maybe a little warmer towards Anemone for that reason.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, and um, not funny.

• 33:21Sean Fennessey?

  Not funny?

• 33:22Speaker 02

  Not funny.

• 33:22Sean Fennessey?

  Though, though. There's efforts, efforts toward funny in the filmography that maybe I wasn't familiar with.

• 33:27Speaker 02

  He, and he can be in movies that are funny and they're kind of play off his seriousness in funny ways. I don't think he's particularly good at comedy.

• 33:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 33:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, and there is also, so.

• 33:38Speaker 02

  Also true of Meryl, until she kind of unlocked it later in life.

• 33:41Amanda Dobbins?

  This is a, well, but so Meryl is a, is a key reference point. There's a, um, a quote from Colin Firth, who stars in your favorite film, Mamma Mia.

• 33:50Sean Fennessey?

  I haven't seen it.

• 33:51Amanda Dobbins?

  And at the.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  Worst movie I ever liked.

• 33:53Amanda Dobbins?

  But so at the end of Mamma Mia, I'm sorry to spoil this for you, Sean.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  What are you doing?

• 33:58Sean Fennessey?

  You haven't really not seen Mamma Mia?

• 34:00Speaker 02

  I've not seen the film, no. It's pretty easy.

• 34:02Sean Fennessey?

  And we were not to interrupt you. We were talking about pop music and our kids the other day.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:07Sean Fennessey?

  And actually, the one thing that my daughter does like in pop music is ABBA. That is the one.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  The best.

• 34:13Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 34:14Speaker 02

  At one time, my wife was in the car with me, I'm sorry, and then you should.

• 34:17Amanda Dobbins?

  No, no, no, no.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  And was like, you know, I don't really know ABBA that well. And I was like, yeah, you do. And she was like, no, I don't. And I was like, okay, well, like, Siri, play ABBA. And we're gonna go through every song until we hit one you don't recognize. And it took like 14 songs.

• 34:30Amanda Dobbins?

  It would have been really fun if your phone just started playing ABBA at that moment.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Right now, anyway.

• 34:34Amanda Dobbins?

  So again, spoiler, after, after the dramatic events of the film have concluded, um, there is like a credits tack on scene where they are all in like the most bell bottom see, bell bottom jumpsuits doing Waterloo.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, the song no park containing.

• 34:52Amanda Dobbins?

  And going for it, uh, and. And Colin Firth is like, here's the thing about all actors, like in our essence, we just wanna like dress up in like very silly clothes and like dance around to Waterloo. He was like, this has, and Meryl Streep is in it too. So like, there is something about being a theater kid, actors, that it's like, this is really what you want. You want to express yourself. And Daniel Day-Lewis does not have that gene. Like, he's not trying to have fun to Abba at like any point. There is nothing silly about it.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  We're gonna talk about the one time she tried it and it's very tough.

• 35:26Amanda Dobbins?

  And it did not work.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Yes, it really did not work.

• 35:29Sean Fennessey?

  He literally does sing and dance in a movie.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  He tried, he really gave it, and maybe he did it because he was like, I can do that.

• 35:35Sean Fennessey?

  I can try this, yeah.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  I've never done that.

• 35:37Sean Fennessey?

  So your entry point was Gangs of New York. Do you remember the first time you saw him on screen?

• 35:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Probably Age of Innocence, right?

• 35:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I was trying to think if I, that's why I'm in my fan.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  Had I seen any of those?

• 35:48Sean Fennessey?

  I must have been shown in The Name of the Father.

• 35:50Speaker 02

  I, I can't remember when I saw that. I might have seen like The Crucible in school, like something like that. But I do think Gangs of New York was probably the first time I was properly keyed into him as a movie fan. And then I went backwards and forwards of it.

• 36:04Sean Fennessey?

  I would say that the My Left Foot year is probably right around an early intro to Oscars for me. Cause I'm a little older than you, yeah. And so I'm like, I can picture my mom sitting on the couch thinking, talking about his performance, how he transformed and.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  That's what, 89?

• 36:23Sean Fennessey?

  89, yeah.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  I was too young.

• 36:24Sean Fennessey?

  So, okay. Well, well, he's won three Academy Awards.

• 36:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 36:31Sean Fennessey?

  He's been nominated, I believe, for six. So he's won for My Left Foot, There Will Be Blood, and Lincoln. That makes this a little bit easier as an exercise when you have three of these. I don't know if we've ever talked about anyone who has three acting awards for this, this.

• 36:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Frances McDormand.

• 36:44Speaker 02

  Katherine Hepburn.

• 36:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Katherine Hepburn, who I nominated and, but we missed all the anniversaries and Sean wouldn't make her brownies. And.

• 36:51Sean Fennessey?

  I said I would do her next year, though.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  Is she gonna like be 100 next year or something like that?

• 36:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, we missed it.

• 36:57Sean Fennessey?

  There's no round number, we'll just do it.

• 36:58Amanda Dobbins?

  And then, is Meryl at three?

• 37:01Speaker 02

  Meryl had three. And her third was so egregious.

• 37:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure, it was.

• 37:05Sean Fennessey?

  And Meryl will have a Hall of Fame when Devil Wears Prada 2 comes out.

• 37:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, that's very exciting. And let me tell you what should have gotten an Oscar is Devil Wears Prada 1.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  Yes, and not the Iron Lake.

• 37:13Sean Fennessey?

  She probably will get one for two.

• 37:14Amanda Dobbins?

  You think so?

• 37:15Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 37:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. Well, I should listen.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Maybe she's amazing in it, I don't know. She might be, maybe.

• 37:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, but who else, who else are we missing with?

• 37:24Speaker 02

  There's not that many. I mean, I think there's, there's that guy who did it three times early. Is it Brennan, Walter Brennan or what? You know, there's some

• 37:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  character actor in the 30s and 40s who picked up three Oscars, but you know, we don't think about him in the same way.

• 37:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Nicholson?

• 37:37Speaker 02

  Nicholson has three for Cuckoo's Nest, Terms of Endearment, as good as it gets.

• 37:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Ingrid Bergman?

• 37:44Speaker 02

  Ingrid Bergman has at least two.

• 37:47Amanda Dobbins?

  And then she has Murder on the Orient Express.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, she did win an Oscar.

• 37:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, that's a choice they made.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  Guys, do it. She's all right in it.

• 37:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 37:55Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, she's okay, but you know.

• 37:56Speaker 02

  She's fine in it.

• 37:57Sean Fennessey?

  Who's that?

• 37:58Speaker 02

  Ingrid Bergman.

• 37:58Amanda Dobbins?

  And Murder on the Orient Express.

• 38:00Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, that's, that's a phony win, but she's a genius. She's a legend.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  Obviously she.

• 38:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Totally. It's not that she doesn't deserve it.

• 38:06Sean Fennessey?

  No, no, no, but that's a, that's a, that's a silly Oscar win.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  It was a bit of a silly, it was a bit of a sort of like, oh my God, you're still here win.

• 38:12Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, exactly.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  I mean, I like that movie. Okay.

• 38:14Sean Fennessey?

  She should have won for, what's the Rossellini, Journey to Italy. That's an incredible performance.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  That is one of my favorite movies.

• 38:20Sean Fennessey?

  Well, it's such a great movie.

• 38:21Speaker 02

  And then there are a lot of. She was, she was tarred and feathered because she was, you know, cheating on her husband.

• 38:25Sean Fennessey?

  Cheating on, yeah.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  With the big tuna. That's what I call Rossellini.

• 38:29Sean Fennessey?

  The big tuna?

• 38:30Speaker 02

  Well, he was a big guy and he made this movie Stromboli, which is all about tuna hunters. So I call him the big tuna hunter.

• 38:35Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  The big tuna.

• 38:36Amanda Dobbins?

  I was talking to me about Stromboli just the other night. Oh, my sister-in-law, Ruthie.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 38:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Was, because she, yeah, because she was in Sicily and then she's like, and then I watched Stromboli.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  Stromboli rocks.

• 38:46Amanda Dobbins?

  She did. Yeah.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  That movie rocks.

• 38:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Shout out Ruthie.

• 38:48Sean Fennessey?

  Ruthie, a woman of taste.

• 38:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I didn't get to shout her out during the live podcast, but I shouted out her parents. So.

• 38:53Speaker 02

  Shout out Ruthie. I said hi to her backstage.

• 38:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 38:56Sean Fennessey?

  DDL also nominated for In the Name of the Father, Gangs of New York and Phantom Thread.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  And that's it? Those, it's six total? That's interesting. I probably, so I'm, I'm like, I'm wondering.

• 39:05Sean Fennessey?

  Quite, because you, I do see him in this tradition of great English actors. Laurence Olivier, you know, the kind of Richard Harris, Richard Burton.

• 39:16Sean Fennessey?

  Robert Shaw, Oliver Reed, that whole, you know,

• 39:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 39:21Sean Fennessey?

  wing of guys. And then, you know, John Gielgud, you know, that whole, this whole historical run of folks. Peter O'Toole, I think, is a good.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Almost everyone you're naming is the other kind of actor where they're like, I get shitfaced until they call.

• 39:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  Action.

• 39:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 39:34Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  Where DDL is like, I learned how to make houses out of trees and live in the woods for a year. Peter O'Toole is like, I go to the bar.

• 39:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  And I load up, like, and then I'm ready to be fucking, you know.

• 39:47Sean Fennessey?

  That's how I podcast.

• 39:48Speaker 02

  You know, there's nothing wrong with that.

• 39:50Sean Fennessey?

  My favorite year.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  That's my method. And like, it's just so interesting, like, to think about those guys, because you think about Olivier, um, you know, the famous thing with Marathon Man where he, to Dustin Hoffman, he's like, why don't you just try acting? You know, like, right? Dustin Hoffman's, you know, deep in the method and Olivier's like, what on earth is this? And like, that's why Daniel Day-Lewis sticks out to me as a Brit, because I feel like Brits usually don't tolerate that kind of tomfoolery.

• 40:16Sean Fennessey?

  So there's one, I think there is one comp, and it's an unusual one, because this is an actor who is known for franchise work and comedy. But I think Alec Guinness is actually an interesting match for him, because Alec Guinness was a transformer. He was a person who turned into characters and disappeared and used prosthetics and changed his facial hair.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  Right. And he fought the Decepticons.

• 40:39Sean Fennessey?

  And he certainly did. Um, he built that bridge.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  I said this on Blank Check recently, I think, he is one of the, you can easily make a case, greatest screen actor who ever lived.

• 40:48Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, with the most varied filmography and achievements in every decade.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  But he couldn't beat Darth Vader.

• 40:55Sean Fennessey?

  He, he couldn't, but his spirit did.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 40:58Sean Fennessey?

  DDL, let's, let's talk about the films. So we're gonna go through every movie. I wanna say, is it roughly 20 films? I think it's 21 films.

• 41:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 41:06Sean Fennessey?

  The first two are very easy to discount.

• 41:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 41:09Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, we can be a little, the thing is, is like, when you've got like seven bang on classics.

• 41:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like 22.

• 41:15Sean Fennessey?

  22.

• 41:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 41:16Sean Fennessey?

  Um, there, there is some TV stuff. I actually did go back and watch a couple of the TV films.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 41:21Sean Fennessey?

  That he made, which are, you can see what.

• 41:26Sean Fennessey?

  His screen persona.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 41:28Sean Fennessey?

  My brother Jonathan is one of the fir- it's like a mini-series that he made for the BBC.

• 41:33Amanda Dobbins?

  I was like, you don't have a brother named Jonathan. Hi Kyle.

• 41:37Sean Fennessey?

  And all of that stuff is interesting. Prior to all of that work, he has a, like a walk-on part in John Schlesinger's Sunday Bloody Sunday.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:46Sean Fennessey?

  Which is fascinating, because I guess Peter Finch is maybe another guy that he has some things in common with.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  I bet you Peter Finch was something of a, you know, idol or not, like a model.

• 41:56Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  Uh, right. Another like mega-intense young British actor.

• 42:01Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Who like, sort of was like startlingly emotional on screen. And he's in, um, yeah, yeah, that's an interesting comp.

• 42:07Sean Fennessey?

  Then in 1982, 11 years later, after he has been studying and working on stage, he gets a small, one-scene part in Gandhi.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 42:16Sean Fennessey?

  Where he plays a man named Colin, a racist, uh, thug on the streets who insults Gandhi.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  Mahatma Gandhi.

• 42:27Sean Fennessey?

  Mahatma Gandhi.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Mahatma Gandhi.

• 42:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 42:29Sean Fennessey?

  And, uh, I tell you what, he sticks out in the movie. It's a very memorable two minutes in this film.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  It's actually, yeah, it's an affecting scene. Do you like Gandhi?

• 42:38Sean Fennessey?

  I don't.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  Gandhi's a movie that, like, I grew up in England, you're shown that film in school, because it's like this very kind of straightforward, kind of like, here's this guy's life, you need to know about it, movie. And I have a bit of a soft spot for it, because I love those, like, just, everything is on screen. You know, it's so many people, like the, the-

• 42:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, the scale.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  But it's, it's a pretty, yeah, it's, it's a straightforward movie. It's not the most-

• 43:01Sean Fennessey?

  It is, uh, one of the early examples I could think of, of a movie that starts at the end.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:07Sean Fennessey?

  And then it goes, because it starts with Gandhi's funeral.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:10Sean Fennessey?

  And then it's like, how did we get here? Let's go back to the very first day of this guy's life.

• 43:14Speaker 02

  Basically.

• 43:15Sean Fennessey?

  And then it walks for three hours.

• 43:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, God.

• 43:17Sean Fennessey?

  And his life is remarkable, there's no doubt, and it is worthy of a movie.

• 43:21Speaker 02

  Kind, is amazing.

• 43:23Sean Fennessey?

  He's great.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:23Sean Fennessey?

  He's phenomenal, you know, a very famous Oscar win for him there. Um, a somewhat controversial one. Okay, so Gandhi, obviously not going in either because of the, the size of that part. 1984 is The Bounty, I just watched this for the first time. So this is the third Hollywood remake of Mutiny on the Bounty.

• 43:39Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 43:40Sean Fennessey?

  And-

• 43:42Sean Fennessey?

  I would say a fairly successful movie.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  It's a pretty, is it Donaldson?

• 43:45Sean Fennessey?

  It's Roger Donaldson.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  It's, it's, I watched it a few years ago. I did a podcast where we were drafting, they were, they were ripping you guys off. Eighties, God bless, and they're nice boys. Eighties can blockbusters and that counted. It was basically like a big bunch of movies that were a can, right?

• 44:01Sean Fennessey?

  Eighties can blockbusters?

• 44:03Amanda Dobbins?

  That's really specific.

• 44:04Sean Fennessey?

  It was fun, it was fun.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  And I had to watch a bunch of movies like that, that were sort of a little lost to memory. Like, it's a total, it's what, so it's Anthony Hopkins.

• 44:13Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Anthony Hopkins and Mel Gibson.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  And Mel Gibson.

• 44:15Sean Fennessey?

  And two tremendously intense performances from Hopkins and Gibson.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  The whole thing with Mutiny on the Bounty is it's just, it's a great opportunity for like, a little bit of an older guy, a little bit of a young buck.

• 44:24Sean Fennessey?

  And it's a big stack of ham.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 44:26Sean Fennessey?

  You can just bite right into it.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  You put them in their navy whites and their hats. And you have them on, you know, in the courtroom going like, well, I never did a mutiny on the bounty. And then you cut to the bounty, it's like, I'm gonna do a mutiny on the bounty, you know, and it's, it's fun. It's, it always works, they could do it again. Who's that now?

• 44:43Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, it's still Anthony Hopkins.

• 44:46Speaker 02

  He's just like asleep in a chair. They're like, we gotta kick this guy off.

• 44:49Sean Fennessey?

  The young guys, the, the Harris Dickinsons and the Paul Meskels, they don't wanna yell back at their elders. That's not the acting style.

• 44:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, they're just, yeah, they're getting stoned and being the Beatles.

• 45:00Sean Fennessey?

  That's right.

• 45:02Amanda Dobbins?

  I thought it was a movie you and the Criterion closet, so.

• 45:05Sean Fennessey?

  Right. Daniel Day-Lewis in The Bounty plays a man named John Fryer. He's essentially one of the first mates, the sort of like lieutenants to Captain Bligh. No, but he's not a bad guy. He's like, he is, supports Hopkins' character. And it's just kind of like, um, he's like the Bebop and Rocksteady to Shredder, you know, like.

• 45:26Sean Fennessey?

  And, and it's, he's, he's fine. I thought this was a pretty good Mel Gibson performance.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's one of those eighties.

• 45:31Amanda Dobbins?

  You know what, you have been saying, like, we both have been saying that like, a lot on the podcast. And listen, it's, it's not an endorsement of anything that comes out.

• 45:40Sean Fennessey?

  He seems like a horrible person, but he was a really good movie star.

• 45:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, whoa, this was pretty charming.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  When you see eighties Gibson, right, it's the mix of like, man, the guy looks great, he's super charming, but also just raw nerve stuff.

• 45:53Sean Fennessey?

  Pops off the screen.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  You can understand why everyone was like, gimme that gum, get that guy.

• 45:58Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, 1984's The Bounty, red.

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:01Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, so we've got three straight reds. 1985, My Beautiful Laundrette.

• 46:06Sean Fennessey?

  So this is the breakthrough, right? This is the who's that?

• 46:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:12Sean Fennessey?

  Stephen Frears's drama, you know, that I think is now probably best known as a Daniel Day-Lewis movie to most people, even though he's like maybe the third lead in the film?

• 46:22Speaker 02

  He's almost supporting. I mean, he's, I would call him, but yeah, because Roshan Seth, the guy who plays the dad is, is yeah.

• 46:30Sean Fennessey?

  Also has a big heart.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he, I mean, that movie rocks. That movie's pretty canonical in Britain. I don't know, I guess it's not here at all.

• 46:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, not as much.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  Like, that's like a pretty classic, like, sort of breakthrough indie, sort of dramedy, whatever. Like, obviously, it's an early story, like gay story in British cinema, like, you know, early-ish.

• 46:52Speaker 02

  But, and it's, yeah, I guess it's mostly famous because he's just so good-looking. Like, he's just so charming and handsome in it. And like, again, like raw nerve kind of stuff, right? Like, I don't know.

• 47:03Sean Fennessey?

  And he's a challenge to the protagonist kind of throughout the movie and like activates the movie halfway through.

• 47:10Sean Fennessey?

  I...

• 47:11Speaker 02

  You didn't like?

• 47:12Sean Fennessey?

  No, I did. I'd seen it before. I'd seen it some years ago. I don't know if this...

• 47:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yellow it.

• 47:18Speaker 02

  I think it has to be yellow.

• 47:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  And it probably will be green.

• 47:23Sean Fennessey?

  I think it will be.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  Well, we're dealing with this thing with, it's top-heavy with him, though. Sorry.

• 47:28Amanda Dobbins?

  No, no, no, it's just, you know, you do like to honor the breakthrough.

• 47:31Sean Fennessey?

  I do.

• 47:31Amanda Dobbins?

  So this is the breakthrough. We can yellow it. There's another 1985 movie that we should, that I would like to talk about.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  We should talk about that, but just last, it's like, he's got the punky thing in it, right? And I feel like that's something he never lets go of, that even when he's mostly doing period pieces and stuff, like, he always has that kind of like weird outsider-y. Yes, yeah. And, you know, when you're considering the arc of Daniel.

• 47:59Sean Fennessey?

  And to your point earlier, like, one of the few contemporarily set movies that he made.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:05Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. Yellow for my beautiful laundrette, we will come back to that. 1985, A Room With A View.

• 48:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, which you just saw for the first time three weeks ago.

• 48:13Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 48:13Amanda Dobbins?

  And he was like, it's fine.

• 48:14Sean Fennessey?

  I thought it was...

• 48:15Amanda Dobbins?

  I know. I thank you so much. Thank you. It's so beautiful.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  It's one of my favorite movies.

• 48:21Amanda Dobbins?

  During the pandemic, you had a bunch of filmmakers on to recommend like one Criterion type thing. And who was it? Who was like a room with a view? That's, that's where it's at.

• 48:31Sean Fennessey?

  I can't recall, but you're right that someone did recommend it.

• 48:33Amanda Dobbins?

  And someone was like, that is what like Swooning Sex Appeal is all about, but.

• 48:37Sean Fennessey?

  Might have been Barry Jenkins.

• 48:39Amanda Dobbins?

  It is not located in the Daniel Day character, you know?

• 48:42Speaker 02

  Which is interesting to twine it with L'André, where he's so sexy and in this he is like the most dickless fuck.

• 48:48Amanda Dobbins?

  This is like the Priggish uptight, you know? Which is, is like another vein that he can, he kind of skirts back and forth with throughout the career. I mean, it's like, it's not his movie.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  But he is so good in it.

• 49:00Amanda Dobbins?

  He's great in it.

• 49:01Speaker 02

  Um, but yes, he's sort of a antagonist or problem character. I don't know how to describe him exactly.

• 49:07Amanda Dobbins?

  That just sucks that you don't like it.

• 49:08Sean Fennessey?

  I didn't say I don't like it.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  Where are you on Merchant Ivory generally?

• 49:12Sean Fennessey?

  Fine. And by no means an expert. Like I haven't seen all the seven D's films.

• 49:16Speaker 02

  Like, should we meet in a year and just have done them all? Like?

• 49:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 49:20Sean Fennessey?

  I've seen most of the, I've seen all of the nineties prestige.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  Sure. Right. You've seen the big boys, like your Howard's End, your Remains of the Day.

• 49:29Sean Fennessey?

  For years on the show, this was a big open spot for me that I had never filled. Um, and I think it's just one of those things where there's a weight of expectations, right? When, when someone like Amanda is like, this is one of the best films of that decade, one of the best films in this style. Not, not like a huge Ian Forster fan. So like, that's, you know, not really like my favorite style of storytelling.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 49:47Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I thought it was good.

• 49:49Amanda Dobbins?

  He doesn't really relate to like young women trying to, to break out of the strictures of the world around them.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  Stay in their place. Just keep them right, right there.

• 49:58Sean Fennessey?

  In the home.

• 49:59Speaker 02

  Until they get married and put them in a brand new kitchen.

• 50:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 50:02Speaker 02

  And they can't leave that one either.

• 50:04Sean Fennessey?

  Linoleum floors that are cleaned every morning.

• 50:08Speaker 02

  It's just a, I mean, it's not a DTL movie.

• 50:11Sean Fennessey?

  It is. Yeah. He doesn't come in until 45 minutes in. He's playing off of the Julian, the, the allure of the Julian Sands character.

• 50:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Which is just the like great Julian Sands.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  Which is interesting because right, Julian Sands is playing a role that Daniel Day Lewis can play.

• 50:26Sean Fennessey?

  Absolutely.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Probably was aspiring to do more of.

• 50:29Sean Fennessey?

  But he's the, he's the buttoned up.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:31Sean Fennessey?

  He's the glasses.

• 50:32Amanda Dobbins?

  But this is also. Period piece, like very, you know, mannered, which is something that he gravitates towards. So it's like, it's, it's not DDL's movie, but it is a like a DDL-esque movie.

• 50:46Sean Fennessey?

  Well, a hundred percent. He fits perfectly in the movie.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  He does.

• 50:49Sean Fennessey?

  But he's usually playing the sans character. He will play the sans character in a couple of examples.

• 50:52Speaker 02

  The whole thing with DDL is he is default, a reedy guy with kind of this like thin English face. He's so English. And then you see him like resisting that, being like, no, no, I'm, I am Irish too. My dad, you know, like my heritage, yeah, which is understandable. But then you'll see him like change his body and try to like, but you put him in a little Edwardian suit or whatever. He looks the part always.

• 51:14Sean Fennessey?

  He does, he does.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:16Sean Fennessey?

  So what do we do with this?

• 51:18Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 51:19Amanda Dobbins?

  You can yellow it.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  I think it should be yellow just because, right, as good as he is in it.

• 51:23Sean Fennessey?

  It's one of the best movies he's ever been in canonically.

• 51:25Speaker 02

  I would say maybe, yes, but right.

• 51:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Just out of respect, you can yellow it.

• 51:29Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, we will yellow and return to it.

• 51:30Amanda Dobbins?

  I love it too.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  It might be my favorite.

• 51:33Amanda Dobbins?

  I think it might be the best.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  I don't know, I don't know.

• 51:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:36Speaker 02

  It's got the more kind of early Merchant Everywhere. It's just a little more romantic. There's just the nineties ones where it's like all about like one tremor of emotion every two hours. You know, which you admire.

• 51:47Amanda Dobbins?

  That scene in the field, oh.

• 51:49Sean Fennessey?

  I like, the scene in the lake when they're all stripping down and chasing each other. I was like, this is, you don't usually see this every day.

• 51:55Speaker 02

  No, that's what rocks about it.

• 51:56Sean Fennessey?

  I, but I haven't seen like The Bostonians, The Wild Party. Like I haven't seen any of those movies.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  I haven't seen them all either. I mean, I need a reason to see some of them, yeah.

• 52:03Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, 1986, this is a very, I think this is a hard film to find. It was a hard film to find on physical media. It's called Nanu. Um, it's a French romantic drama, sort of, sort of dramedy.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:16Sean Fennessey?

  Um, and again, Daniel Day-Lewis plays a very strange part where he plays the boyfriend, who is, I guess, being cuckolded.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 52:26Sean Fennessey?

  And was going to be cuckolded. And the film is sort of about this, this challenging decision for the, uh, female lead.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  Imogen Stubbs.

• 52:34Sean Fennessey?

  Imogen Stubbs.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  Who is kind of like. She's like a big British theater actor. She was kind of like a medium deal. You know what I mean? Like, she's in The Twelfth Night, Trevor Nunn movie. She's in Sense and Sensibility, you know? But she was never quite on the level of like an Emma Thompson or whatever the big crossover Brits were.

• 52:52Sean Fennessey?

  Right. A rare example of a film written and directed by a woman in 1980s England. That did not happen.

• 52:57Speaker 02

  Which you're not happy about that.

• 52:59Sean Fennessey?

  Why was she not on those linoleum floors? Is what I said when this film was announced in 1986.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  Connie Temple, the only movie I think she ever made.

• 53:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. It's ultimately, it's a French film. It's not, there is English language in it, but it is, it feels French in its pacing and its style. And it has been kind of disappeared from the Daniel Day-Lewis history, even though it comes in the aftermath of two big British classics. And it's not going in.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  It's gonna be a red.

• 53:28Sean Fennessey?

  He's fine. It's not, it's barely apart.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  It relates to, yeah, a movie we're gonna discuss soon.

• 53:33Amanda Dobbins?

  So you hate women and French people?

• 53:37Sean Fennessey?

  I don't hate anyone.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  Has he been in, how many other movies has he been in directed by a woman? Is that the only one?

• 53:43Sean Fennessey?

  Well, his wife directed it.

• 53:44Speaker 02

  His wife did direct him, that's right. I think that's the only other one.

• 53:46Sean Fennessey?

  I think that's it.

• 53:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 53:50Sean Fennessey?

  1988, it's the unbearable lightness of being.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 53:53Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  So I'd never seen this movie.

• 53:56Sean Fennessey?

  I probably haven't seen it in 20 years.

• 53:59Speaker 02

  I had watched, and I remember this very clearly, about 45 minutes of it in a Virgin megastore once where it was just playing on a TV. And it had boobs.

• 54:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 54:09Speaker 02

  I was probably about 14 or 15 years old. And it was also a movie.

• 54:13Sean Fennessey?

  They were playing this movie on TV in public? There's a couple of sex scenes in this movie that are really intense.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 54:20Amanda Dobbins?

  But in the UK.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  But the Virgin megastores were so cavernous and you would just sort of find yourself in the arthousey kind of, and there would just be, you know, stuff playing on the, you know?

• 54:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  And I remember watching it for a while.

• 54:32Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  But not really knowing what was going on.

• 54:34Sean Fennessey?

  And sweet Jesus.

• 54:35Speaker 02

  Well, the whole thing with this movie is it's about the gals. Like, it's about Julie Pinochet and Lena Olin. And he, this is like his first big lead in a way.

• 54:43Sean Fennessey?

  Legitimately.

• 54:44Speaker 02

  And he's totally fine. But he feels like a little like anonymous.

• 54:48Sean Fennessey?

  Well, so I haven't I haven't read this novel. This novel is a Niloan Kundera novel that is hugely celebrated and is. The way it was described and what I was reading about it last night is that it is simultaneously this kind of sweeping romantic drama set during a time of great historical change, a very common setting.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Prague Spring.

• 55:05Sean Fennessey?

  For a big story that during the Prague Spring and the kind of retrenchment of communist power inside of Czechoslovakia. And also, you know, film about educated people being kind of like stripped of their livelihood during a time of revolution. But that the the novel itself is kind of almost like self aware of its own tropes. And there's a kind of knowingness in the writing.

• 55:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 55:24Sean Fennessey?

  That makes it a standard bearer of like postmodern fiction as well as historical fiction. And that the movie is just an adaptation of historical fiction, right? It's just a romantic drama.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  Right? It sheds a lot of the the literary. You're right. Yeah.

• 55:38Amanda Dobbins?

  I did read this novel, like freshman or sophomore year of college, which like time wise, you know, in.

• 55:46Speaker 02

  Ideal.

• 55:46Amanda Dobbins?

  My journey. Exactly. And it was like handed to me as someone who was like. Exploring the meta textual aspects of literature, but also, you know, was in one on one. So and then I think I did see the movie then as well.

• 56:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 56:04Amanda Dobbins?

  And this was the one that I was gonna rewatch this morning and didn't get to. But yes, it is. The the movie is.

• 56:14Amanda Dobbins?

  That is sort of like the English patient. It's just the plot, not any of the structure.

• 56:18Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 56:19Amanda Dobbins?

  And the linguistic and the literary aspects of the movie.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  And Philip Kaufman.

• 56:24Sean Fennessey?

  Phil Philip Kaufman.

• 56:25Speaker 02

  It's his follow up to write stuff, right? It's like he makes right stuff and he's like, okay, baby, I get to do my Czech sex movie.

• 56:31Sean Fennessey?

  Well, it's a it's a weird. It's a weird thing in Kaufman's career because, you know, in the seventies.

• 56:37Speaker 02

  Gets fired off Josie Wales.

• 56:38Sean Fennessey?

  And he bounces around in terms of the kinds of movies that he makes.

• 56:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:43Sean Fennessey?

  Where he makes Invasion of the Body Snatchers remake, which is fabulous.

• 56:46Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 56:46Sean Fennessey?

  Great Minnesota Northfield raid.

• 56:48Speaker 02

  Awesome movie.

• 56:48Sean Fennessey?

  Um, he makes The Wanderers, a movie about like gangs, like leather, like Leather Boys, not not Cruising Leather Boys, but Leather Boys. And he seems to have this interest in a lot of different kinds of stories, you know, Raiders of the Lost Ark, you know, Famously Contributed Didn't Contribute. And then after this movie, he makes a bunch of movies like this movie.

• 57:10Speaker 02

  What does he make?

• 57:11Sean Fennessey?

  He makes Henry and June.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, right. He goes Euro.

• 57:13Sean Fennessey?

  He makes Quills.

• 57:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:16Sean Fennessey?

  He makes Rising Sun.

• 57:18Speaker 02

  Well, that one's.

• 57:19Sean Fennessey?

  But like, again, these are all like erotic.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:22Sean Fennessey?

  Foreign thriller dramas.

• 57:24Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 57:25Sean Fennessey?

  Hemingway and Gellhorn.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, sure. Yeah.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:29Amanda Dobbins?

  That's Clive Owen and Nicole Kidman.

• 57:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, and this movie kind of just like resets the course for him. And I don't know if that's the stuff he could make because of the unbearable lightness of being or whatever. This was a very celebrated movie in its time.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, it got Oscar nominations. It was a thing. I feel like it it launched both Lena Olin and Julia Pinocchio's like sort of pseudo Hollywood people. Like, they were kind of like half in Europe, half in Hollywood people. They're the things. I mean, he's a hot doctor who fucks.

• 57:56Sean Fennessey?

  I think he's good in this.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  He's good.

• 57:57Sean Fennessey?

  I don't think he's really ever done this, except for maybe one other movie where he is just.

• 58:01Speaker 02

  Like a Lothario.

• 58:02Sean Fennessey?

  The heartthrob. Like, he is just like bagging women and like with a look. You know, the film opens with him saying, you know, take off your clothes to a nurse in in a hospital.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:12Sean Fennessey?

  Whilst there is a surgery happening in the room next door. And he's a doctor, yeah.

• 58:16Speaker 02

  Um, but right, it's about a guy who's kind of like, eh, I'm just here to fuck. And like, as, you know, the weighty events mount, he's eventually confronts like, maybe I'm not just here to fuck.

• 58:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. But all of his other characters, he is, it's the anomaly because the rest of the time, it's like, I, he's like, I, I would like to fuck, but I have like other things going on, you know? And it's sort of you are, you're like pulling me away from.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  Right. He's rarely sex forward.

• 58:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. And like even Phantom Thread is about the way in which, like, I think, is it like about Daniel Day Lewis and his appeal to women characters in the, you know, it's like, it's complicated.

• 58:57Sean Fennessey?

  But he's withholding his essence in that movie. And in this movie, he's like, let me get my essence on you.

• 59:01Amanda Dobbins?

  That's what I'm saying. That's which is, he's withholding it everything. That is like part of his, his thing.

• 59:05Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. And I wonder if he maybe very purposely was like, no more Lotharios after this.

• 59:10Speaker 02

  He may have found it, whatever, like a little uninteresting or I did. That already, I guess, like, um, but I do, it's a, it's a pretty good move.

• 59:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, do you think that's his style I R L, you know?

• 59:21Speaker 02

  No.

• 59:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. So that's the other thing, right? Like, I don't.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  He dated Isabella Johnny for years.

• 59:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 59:26Speaker 02

  And then he, they, that, that relationship fell apart and he, he met Rebecca Miller, I think when he was doing The Crucible, right? Like, he meets her through Arthur Miller.

• 59:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 59:36Speaker 02

  Arthur Miller was like, hey, meet my daughter.

• 59:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 59:38Speaker 02

  I get, right? Like, that's.

• 59:39Sean Fennessey?

  I believe that's what.

• 59:39Speaker 02

  And like, that's all I know of his love. Like, since then, he's just been married to Rebecca Miller. And like, so. Yeah, him and Isabella Johnny, that doesn't sound like a chill. Those are two very intense, cool, serious actors. Like, what did they, did they, like, do the crossword together? Like, it's hard to imagine.

• 59:56Sean Fennessey?

  You'd be surprised.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess so.

• 59:58Amanda Dobbins?

  I guess so.

• 59:58Sean Fennessey?

  Amanda does the crossword, you know? She's an intense type.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  She's just a ball lightning.

• 1:00:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I, I do spelling bee, but.

• 1:00:05Sean Fennessey?

  Spelling bee, great. Uh, I think the unbearable lightness of being will go in, but I, I.

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  I think we should yellow it just, just because we're just feeling.

• 1:00:14Sean Fennessey?

  Haven't ever gotten this far before a green.

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  I just feel like we're anticipating all of the juggernauty things.

• 1:00:21Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  But there aren't that many movies, I guess.

• 1:00:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Newman, maybe.

• 1:00:26Sean Fennessey?

  We did go a few.

• 1:00:27Amanda Dobbins?

  We went like a lot. There was like 10 to 12. And you were itchy because you kept being like, no, no, no, no, but we need to have the first one in.

• 1:00:33Sean Fennessey?

  What was the first one? Hustler? I can't remember what the first one was.

• 1:00:34Speaker 02

  Because you were like, Paris Blues, Paris Blues.

• 1:00:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:37Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Definitely not The Silver Chalice. That didn't, that didn't go in.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:00:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:42Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, 1988 Stars and Bars. Now, I had not seen this before.

• 1:00:45Speaker 02

  This was the one I was pumped for. I hadn't heard of this movie, but I had read the book.

• 1:00:50Sean Fennessey?

  What?

• 1:00:50Speaker 02

  Yes. I read this book because my mom liked William Boyd. Who wrote lots of, like, this kind of stuff.

• 1:00:57Amanda Dobbins?

  One of Juliette Lemon's favorite authors.

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  Like, kind of light comedy stuff, like antique, you know, usually about, like, being a sort of transatlantic person, which is what he was.

• 1:01:07Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  You know, London, New York-y kind of guy. And, um, I just would, you know, I, I read this book when I was a teenager. And it's like a Farsi kind of book about. Oh, British guy ends up in the South and he's an art dealer, but in the South, you know, they all just like, you know, make barbecue or what do you like? It's not an evolved look at American, the American South. I don't really remember it. And then I learned that, yeah, they had made a movie of it with Daniel Day-Lewis. And this movie kicks off. Did you watch this?

• 1:01:36Sean Fennessey?

  I did watch this movie on the plane to New York.

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  Sure. Did you watch this?

• 1:01:38Amanda Dobbins?

  I didn't.

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  I mean, that's fine. It's not good. It's bad. Would you agree?

• 1:01:42Sean Fennessey?

  It's legitimately bad.

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  It's quite awful. It was directed by, what's his name?

• 1:01:45Sean Fennessey?

  Pat O'Connor.

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  Who's like a guy who made a lot of like, okay, movies. Like, I should look, I should just triple check like his resume.

• 1:01:53Sean Fennessey?

  You mean the January man, Zelda, Circle of Friends? Circle of Friends, Inventing the Abbot's?

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  He went through the whole 90s making those kinds of movies.

• 1:02:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Dancing at Lunasas?

• 1:02:02Speaker 02

  We're going to the mat for Circle of Friends?

• 1:02:05Amanda Dobbins?

  We're going to the mat for Inventing the Abbot's.

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  Inventing the Abbot's is a cool one.

• 1:02:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Liv Tyler, Joaquin Phoenix was powerful stuff.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  They were hot. They were hot. But it's like one of, you know, he would make kind of like, you know, mid-budgety kind of drama, right? Stuff with young stars. Um, but I want to read the cast because it's crazy. Did you have this experience when the, just the credits were rolling?

• 1:02:24Sean Fennessey?

  I only knew because I looked beforehand.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  Daniel Day-Lewis, Harry Dean Stanton, Maury Chaykin, Joan Cusack, Keith David, Spalding Gray, Glenn Headley, Laurie Metcalf, Deidre O'Connell, Will Patton, Martha Plimpton. You know, like, it was, I was just like, how bad, Stephen Wright's in it? You know, like, this'll be fun, right? Like, look at all these heavy hitters. It sucks.

• 1:02:45Sean Fennessey?

  It's really not good. And it is in part because it is meant to be a fish out of water comedy. And Daniel Day-Lewis isn't very funny. He's just not very funny.

• 1:02:53Speaker 02

  It's the one thing I watched where I was like, he's really bad in this. He's mismatched or whatever. He doesn't have a handle on what he's supposed to be doing. Every scene is just him going, oh, yes, well, I suppose so. Well, like, someone is like, hey, partner, how you doing? He's like, oh, dear, oh, dear. You know, like, it's just that over and over and over again.

• 1:03:13Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. I hope you bring back more of your DDL impression throughout the rest of this episode.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Obviously, he had played sort of stiff, upper lip, British guys before, mostly Room of the View.

• 1:03:24Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, not modern guys, though.

• 1:03:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:03:25Sean Fennessey?

  This is a contemporary movie as well.

• 1:03:27Speaker 02

  It is. But, I mean, the movie itself is kind of so half-assed that you're like, maybe... There wasn't anything for him to grab on to, but he's bad in it.

• 1:03:36Sean Fennessey?

  It's so fascinating, though.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  It's been buried.

• 1:03:39Sean Fennessey?

  Like that he, first of all, it's never discussed.

• 1:03:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:03:41Sean Fennessey?

  Um, no one ever talks about it. I don't think it was, I don't even know if this movie is a release on VHS. Like, I couldn't find it anywhere.

• 1:03:47Speaker 02

  I watched it on Plex.

• 1:03:48Sean Fennessey?

  And it is, it is, well done. I rented it from iTunes, so you can still do that.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:03:54Sean Fennessey?

  It's, I mean, it's sandwiched between the unbearable lightness of being.

• 1:03:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:03:57Sean Fennessey?

  And my left foot.

• 1:03:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:59Sean Fennessey?

  Which is just the craziness of how life in Hollywood and filmmaking and acting careers go.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  Right, cuz it's, you, you imagine his agent, whoever this imagining person was, being like, yeah, yeah, yeah, this, you're, you're the star of this movie. It's a fun comedy. It's got, you know, actors in it. It'll be, it's based on a book that I think probably sold well. Of course you do that movie. And he's like, what if I pretend to be paralyzed? Like, I can only move a foot. And the guy's like, that's kind of a risk.

• 1:04:26Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  Isn't anyone gonna wanna see that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, that was the right move for him.

• 1:04:30Sean Fennessey?

  And the funny thing about it is that My Left Foot is much funnier than Stars in Bars.

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're right.

• 1:04:35Sean Fennessey?

  And is not.

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  It has like earthy humor. You're right, you're right.

• 1:04:39Sean Fennessey?

  And it has a reputation as a very serious biopic about a disabled man and his struggle, right? That's the framework of the movie. But it's kind of an Irish comedy.

• 1:04:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:50Sean Fennessey?

  And.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  It's a slice of life movie.

• 1:04:52Amanda Dobbins?

  And hard and, yeah.

• 1:04:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, and it's kind of uplifting and you can kind of hear the, the Irish singing on the soundtrack and, um, it's an interesting thing because as I said, I was probably, I was seven years old at the, probably eight years old during this Academy Awards. And an introduction to the idea of the Transformer, you know, the person who becomes someone else.

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  You can't believe what this guy did cuz he was beating, I feel like, some pretty big performances at the Oscars. I can look it up.

• 1:05:15Sean Fennessey?

  Look at what it was in 1990.

• 1:05:17Speaker 02

  Like, when you look at, I just feel like it's a couple times I have watched some movie, loved a performance and been like, how on earth did this guy lose? And you're like, ah, but everyone was freaking out about Daniel Day-Lewis.

• 1:05:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. Well, Tom Cruise, born on the 4th of July.

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  That's the one where you're like.

• 1:05:31Amanda Dobbins?

  He should have an Oscar for.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  And it was kind of, that was the moment.

• 1:05:34Sean Fennessey?

  Kind of performance, a transformation.

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  Yes, and that's the big one, yes.

• 1:05:38Sean Fennessey?

  And Branagh, we didn't mention Kenneth Branagh as a kind of antecedent to DDL, but they're, they're correlated in some way.

• 1:05:44Speaker 02

  And that's Branagh's breakout year with Henry the Fifth.

• 1:05:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Um, and Morgan Freeman for Driving This Daisy, Robin Williams for Dead Poets Society.

• 1:05:51Speaker 02

  Which is Williams having his, like, I'm stepping into drama and it's working thing. I mean, we, yeah, that's, yeah, that's an interesting. Counter to, but yeah, like it was just what you're saying. Everyone was like, you, I don't understand how he did this.

• 1:06:04Sean Fennessey?

  So my left foot is-

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  It's the first Miramax triumph.

• 1:06:08Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  It's the original Harvey Weinstein Oscar triumph.

• 1:06:11Sean Fennessey?

  That's right.

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  Taking a tiny Euro movie and God, you know, whatever. I like the movie, but like cramming it down people's throats.

• 1:06:19Sean Fennessey?

  Right. On the back of a strong lead performance that you can really sell against. And so you have to see this because of this incredible transformation.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  An actor who's a little bit of a name. It's not like he was a total unknown.

• 1:06:28Sean Fennessey?

  Right, right.

• 1:06:30Sean Fennessey?

  First time he works with Jim Sheridan, the great Irish filmmaker. And I like this movie. I don't love it. It's not like a personal favorite of mine. It's very impressive what he has done.

• 1:06:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:06:41Sean Fennessey?

  In terms of just transforming his body and the things he learned to do with his feet. And that he has said that the reason that he wanted to do this was the challenge of it. You know, I'm sure he connected to the story and it was a meaningful one to him, but that the idea of, you know, making your foot your only workable appendage.

• 1:07:01Speaker 02

  To interact with the world.

• 1:07:01Sean Fennessey?

  Exactly. To communicate, to make art, to write.

• 1:07:05Amanda Dobbins?

  It's an impressive performance, but it has also become like shorthand for the DDL thing. You know, it's like, oh, right. Okay. So now you are completely becoming someone else, like with great like physical challenges. And it's, it is showy, you know, like it is, it is, hey, look over here, we're acting.

• 1:07:25Sean Fennessey?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:07:26Speaker 02

  Whereas everyone else in the movie is not. Brenda Fricker won an Oscar. Like everyone else feels like these nice, lived in British Irish performers, you know, like Fiona Shaw is really good.

• 1:07:35Amanda Dobbins?

  That's ungenerous in a sense of what I think is really impressive about the Daniel Day Lewis performance. It like is because it is so physical and like showy, he does make it look natural. You know, like he is, he's acting, but there is a naturalistic quality to like his presence that makes it also, you know, this could be really insulting in almost like anybody else's hands or body.

• 1:08:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, gone wrong, it would be terrible.

• 1:08:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Totally. So you gotta hand it to him, but- It's like it, the performance announces itself. You got to foot it to him. That's right.

• 1:08:12Speaker 02

  Sorry. That's insensitive to Christie Brown. I'm really sorry.

• 1:08:15Sean Fennessey?

  My left foot is going in the Daniel Day-Lewis Hall of Fame automatically.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  Even though it is not a film, I've seen it like once and I think it's like quite good. I like Jim Sheridan. I think that's such an interesting run of films.

• 1:08:26Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 1:08:27Speaker 02

  That's kind of starting here. And it's also very interesting how it ends. Like In America is kind of the last movie of consequence he made. I mean, the Brothers remake is okay, but like he went on from like making these like incredibly soulful, clearly personal movies to being like, I don't know.

• 1:08:43Sean Fennessey?

  Hollywood jobs.

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  Do it. 50 Cent needs an eight mile.

• 1:08:46Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:46Speaker 02

  Let me at him. You know, like it just became kind of like a journeyman.

• 1:08:49Sean Fennessey?

  Mortgages cost money, you know?

• 1:08:51Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And I don't, you know, it's fine, but like this is not the Jim Sheridan movie I really love.

• 1:08:56Sean Fennessey?

  Me neither. We all get to that.

• 1:08:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:59Speaker 05

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• 1:09:43Sean Fennessey?

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• 1:10:27Sean Fennessey?

  Whatever feeling you're after, Prime helps bring it to life with great entertainment and fast shipping that delivers what the moment calls for. From streaming to fast shipping, it's on Prime.

• 1:10:38Sean Fennessey?

  Here we are back right where we were one year ago. 1990, Ever Smile, New Jersey, a movie that no one has ever heard of.

• 1:10:44Speaker 02

  I do not know what you're talking about, to be honest.

• 1:10:47Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, I'm looking at the Wikipedia page. I'm sorry. Here's, here's the first sentence, the first, the first two clauses. Fergus O'Connell, an itinerant Irish-American dentist from New Jersey.

• 1:11:01Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:11:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Offers his services free of charge to the isolated rural population of Patagonia in Argentina.

• 1:11:08Sean Fennessey?

  The film is written and directed by Carlos Sorin, an Argentinian filmmaker.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:11:11Sean Fennessey?

  Um, this is also very clearly a personal work for him.

• 1:11:14Speaker 02

  Do you think?

• 1:11:15Sean Fennessey?

  I have no idea how this even hit Daniel Day-Lewis's desk.

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  Well, good point, but do you think this was a pre My Left Foot situation?

• 1:11:21Sean Fennessey?

  Probably.

• 1:11:22Speaker 02

  Because like you think about My Left Foot is the beginning of like, okay, from now on, if he's making a movie, you're getting quite a package, you're getting a transformation from him, it's going to be kind of a story. Right? Like we're no longer doing a Stars and Bars. Hey, and look, maybe for Stars and Bars, he spent six months, you know, selling art at Sotheby's. I don't know like what his prep was for that movie, but it does feel like My Left Foot on is like that the method mystique begins.

• 1:11:48Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm sorry, I just, the plot summary. Nevertheless, Fergus decides to continue with his work on the prevention of tooth decay and dental health education.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  I watched this movie.

• 1:11:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Which is important, isn't it?

• 1:11:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I'm pro dentistry.

• 1:12:01Amanda Dobbins?

  We know how I feel about dentists, but they prevent disease and that is, yeah.

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  Best dentist movie? Isn't the Alan Rudolph film, The Secret Lives of Dentists?

• 1:12:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Catch Me If You Can, he's the, Amy Adams's dad is a dentist?

• 1:12:13Sean Fennessey?

  Martin Sheen? Uh, I'm not sure if that's a.

• 1:12:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Someone's a dentist?

• 1:12:15Speaker 02

  He's a lawyer, Martin Sheen's a lawyer.

• 1:12:17Amanda Dobbins?

  So is someone a dentist or there's a hygienist?

• 1:12:19Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 1:12:20Amanda Dobbins?

  There's dentistry in Catch Me If You Can?

• 1:12:22Speaker 02

  What about the Serious Man, the best dentist movie? The boy's teeth?

• 1:12:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Catch Me If You Can.

• 1:12:27Sean Fennessey?

  What about the Steve Martin comedy Novocain?

• 1:12:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that's funny, there were a couple.

• 1:12:32Sean Fennessey?

  That movie's not very good, but.

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  No, no, not really, no.

• 1:12:35Sean Fennessey?

  It's been a great dentist movie.

• 1:12:36Speaker 02

  Have you ever written a movie about a dentist who's a hero, much like this film? You know what I mean? Like usually if you're a dentist in a movie, you're playing like kind of a twerp.

• 1:12:44Sean Fennessey?

  Good question, yeah.

• 1:12:45Speaker 02

  Like it's kind of like, ah, you're, you know, go to your job being a dent, fiddling around with teeth all day, a little weirdo.

• 1:12:51Sean Fennessey?

  It's a respectable, upper-middle-class station in society, right?

• 1:12:54Speaker 02

  But it's kind of like a thing, it's like, ah, you got a boring job. And Little Shop of Horrors, another iconic dentist.

• 1:12:58Sean Fennessey?

  That's probably the best dentist movie, right? Is that dentistry, you know? One could argue it's torture.

• 1:13:06Amanda Dobbins?

  When you Google "catch me if you can dentist", it's very confusing results. So it's like a lot of people like.

• 1:13:12Sean Fennessey?

  I just want to tell you guys, I watched Ever Smile.

• 1:13:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, go ahead.

• 1:13:16Sean Fennessey?

  No, it's really bad. Okay, I did think he was kind of charming in it.

• 1:13:19Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 1:13:19Sean Fennessey?

  And.

• 1:13:20Speaker 02

  Is it like a parody of this kind of movie?

• 1:13:22Amanda Dobbins?

  That's an important, you have to be charming as a dentist because you gotta get.

• 1:13:25Sean Fennessey?

  Well, he's trying to convince children to brush their teeth.

• 1:13:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:29Sean Fennessey?

  And he's.

• 1:13:29Speaker 02

  You're making this movie sound.

• 1:13:31Sean Fennessey?

  It's a very odd.

• 1:13:32Speaker 02

  He's in like the wilds of Patagonia with like toothbrushes.

• 1:13:36Sean Fennessey?

  There's, he's in, it's in civilized society. He's in classrooms. It's not like in the jungle.

• 1:13:41Speaker 02

  It's just, I'm imagining him in the jungle, just arriving at settlements, being like, I bring Oral B.

• 1:13:48Sean Fennessey?

  There's an important note to this movie.

• 1:13:49Amanda Dobbins?

  There is a thing in the plot summary that's about how for a while, it like capitalism takes over his work and he's like, I don't know whether I'm compromised by Oral B or whatever. It doesn't say Oral B.

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  But whatever, big, big, big toothpaste.

• 1:14:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Dentist, yeah.

• 1:14:05Sean Fennessey?

  Um, Miramax also produced this movie.

• 1:14:07Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:14:08Sean Fennessey?

  And so I wonder if there was a little bit of one and one here.

• 1:14:10Speaker 02

  Like, hey, my friend.

• 1:14:12Sean Fennessey?

  Sheridan's movie if.

• 1:14:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, someone I know.

• 1:14:14Sean Fennessey?

  Package.

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  Has got this dentist project.

• 1:14:17Sean Fennessey?

  Ever Smile, New Jersey will not be.

• 1:14:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:14:20Sean Fennessey?

  And then here we go with.

• 1:14:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Here we go.

• 1:14:22Speaker 02

  Right now, it's like.

• 1:14:23Amanda Dobbins?

  And here we go.

• 1:14:24Sean Fennessey?

  Collection of films over a 10 year period.

• 1:14:27Amanda Dobbins?

  He wins an Oscar for My Left Foot and then, you know, it takes off.

• 1:14:31Speaker 02

  Three years go by though. Yeah, three years go by.

• 1:14:34Sean Fennessey?

  Because he has to go live in the woods.

• 1:14:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it takes a while to become, what is Hawkeye? Is that his name in Last of the Mohicans?

• 1:14:43Sean Fennessey?

  Last of the Mohicans, 1992.

• 1:14:44Amanda Dobbins?

  To David's point, there's just like a lot of people in Last of the Mohicans, you know, and a lot of horses and other stuff. So it takes a while to have real people and things in your movie.

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  Is this his, uh, peak hotness?

• 1:14:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:58Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:14:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  This is peak like marquee idol for him. As a status he avoids.

• 1:15:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. Listen, it's, it's great job.

• 1:15:08Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, so it's a really fascinating pivot moment in Michael Mann's career as well. Because he's, you know, he's made Thief and Man Hunter and then he goes off and makes Miami Vice.

• 1:15:18Speaker 02

  Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:19Sean Fennessey?

  And he's on Miami Vice for a stretch of time. He hasn't made a movie in six years between Man Hunter and this movie because he's been working in TV. And

• 1:15:26Speaker 02

  And it's intensity plus intensity, like man plus DDL.

• 1:15:30Sean Fennessey?

  Exactly, yes, very, the masculine forces coming together. But also, a very firm rejection of a certain kind of like contemporary crime movie that he, or crime TV show that he is getting known for. And for Daniel Day Lewis, it's an American movie, and he's playing an American character, set in a Native American world.

• 1:15:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:15:48Sean Fennessey?

  And so it's a huge, it's a major transition away from the fusty button up guy, or you know, the Irish artist, like it's a, it's a big change.

• 1:15:56Speaker 02

  But it's the kind of American he likes playing, which is an American from more than a hundred years ago, who has something of an accent, like something of a, a voice that he can do.

• 1:16:04Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 1:16:05Speaker 02

  Like, he's not gonna just play, you know, Joe, Joe Coffee.

• 1:16:09Sean Fennessey?

  He's not gonna play David Sims.

• 1:16:10Speaker 02

  He could try.

• 1:16:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, even there.

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  He's gonna have to put on a few.

• 1:16:14Amanda Dobbins?

  He'll live in the UK for some time.

• 1:16:16Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, some English heritage.

• 1:16:18Amanda Dobbins?

  We're getting there, we're gonna, yeah, we're gonna do Politics Corner shortly.

• 1:16:21Sean Fennessey?

  Would that be a good film?

• 1:16:22Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:16:23Sean Fennessey?

  Young David, The Life and Times of Young David.

• 1:16:25Speaker 02

  There's moments you could dramatize, I guess, give it, give it your best shot.

• 1:16:31Sean Fennessey?

  Last of the Mohicans is also a proving ground for Daniel Day Lewis as action star.

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:36Sean Fennessey?

  Because that's the other thing, is that this is an action movie in so many ways, and he's terrible, he's so credible.

• 1:16:41Speaker 02

  He's just running.

• 1:16:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, when he saves, um,

• 1:16:44Sean Fennessey?

  Madeline Stowe.

• 1:16:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Madeline Stowe, you know, at the, it's like in that final battle, and is just absolutely, he's laying in the punches, he's, you know, and you like see the choreography, but also, he, again, he has learned and lived the choreography enough that it is credible.

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, again, right, with my left foot, the transformation is so obvious, and so with this, obviously, he looks great, and he's got the hair, and he's got the body and stuff, but like, is where you start hearing about like, oh, no, no, no, he like made camp in upstate New York, in the Arundex, and he learned to build fires and carve wood, and like, you start to hear this sort of mythic stuff about it.

• 1:17:20Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 1:17:20Speaker 02

  My favorite story from this movie, we did this, we did Michael Mann on Blank Check years ago, is that Michael Mann was also insane, and there's a moment where like shooting through the night for some, you know, big battle sequence or whatever, and then Michael Mann starts yelling like, Turn that light off. What's that light? Like, who turned on a light? Like, and they're like, the sun is rising. Michael, the day is beginning. We cannot control the sun itself.

• 1:17:44Sean Fennessey?

  That's incredible.

• 1:17:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's the best.

• 1:17:47Sean Fennessey?

  This has never been

• 1:17:48Speaker 02

  You don't like this movie?

• 1:17:49Sean Fennessey?

  A big Michael Mann movie for me.

• 1:17:51Speaker 02

  Oh, sure.

• 1:17:51Sean Fennessey?

  Like, in my Michael Mann rankings, this is not in the top five.

• 1:17:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:17:54Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I think it's very good.

• 1:17:56Speaker 02

  Top five, but it's a pretty great rewatchable rip-snorting adventure.

• 1:18:00Sean Fennessey?

  Totally.

• 1:18:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. When we did top five Michael Manns on Big Picture, I, I gave away my fifth spot to Chris.

• 1:18:08Sean Fennessey?

  To pick it?

• 1:18:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:09Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:18:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Cause I was like, and, and we put in Last of the Weekends.

• 1:18:12Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:18:12Amanda Dobbins?

  So I think I, I just

• 1:18:13Sean Fennessey?

  Chris has this film.

• 1:18:14Amanda Dobbins?

  I felt that I needed to speak for Chris Ryan.

• 1:18:16Sean Fennessey?

  It's very good. I'm not criticizing it. It's just for, it's just not specifically what I connect with the most about Mann's films, which is I think he's like obsessed with the surfaces of contemporary life and the way that like we're all affected by it.

• 1:18:27Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, these are some, you know, gnarly battle sequences, though. I watched this on the train, yes, like on the Metro North yesterday, and I was like, oh, okay, so there goes someone's, you know?

• 1:18:37Speaker 02

  No, no, for sure.

• 1:18:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, sorry.

• 1:18:38Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. It's incredibly intense. And, and Daniel Day-Lewis is very good, and this movie made 150 million dollars and announced he has a big star.

• 1:18:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it has to be green.

• 1:18:46Sean Fennessey?

  It's very, very green, for sure. 1993, one year later, his first collaboration with Martin Scorsese, The Age of Innocence.

• 1:18:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, baby.

• 1:18:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Green, green.

• 1:18:56Sean Fennessey?

  One of the films of the 90s.

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  It's so good.

• 1:18:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Green.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  And, you know, it's so interesting because it was a movie that was, got an underwhelming reception at the time. And I think there was partly the sort of like automatic bias against like, oh, Marty, you can't pull this off.

• 1:19:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:10Speaker 02

  And like

• 1:19:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Wrong.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  Wrong. And I think there was a little bias against maybe Daniel Day-Lewis 2, the head mounts? I don't know, because it's a movie, I feel like it arrived at its masterpiece status a little later.

• 1:19:22Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 1:19:22Speaker 02

  Um, it's just cause it's a quiet movie, it's unrewarding in a way, you know?

• 1:19:26Amanda Dobbins?

  It is, it is about restraint and repression.

• 1:19:28Speaker 02

  Exactly, right. It's about people not getting what they want.

• 1:19:30Amanda Dobbins?

  And it comes after, for Scorsese, I mean, like, pretty soon after Goodfellas.

• 1:19:35Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:35Amanda Dobbins?

  And, uh,

• 1:19:37Sean Fennessey?

  And it is obviously a kind of, not a rejection, but a sort of like, I'm zagging.

• 1:19:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, stylistically, but also emotionally. And texturally and same for DDL and Last of the Mohicans like he's not slashing people. He's like looking longingly in like an opera box.

• 1:19:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I cannot recommend the Mr. Scorsese documentary that Daniel Day Lewis's wife Rebecca Miller made more.

• 1:19:57Speaker 02

  So excited.

• 1:19:58Sean Fennessey?

  It it's so good, but it's a movie that it's a doc that takes time to spend seven minutes explaining why the age of innocence is such a triumph.

• 1:20:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:20:07Sean Fennessey?

  Um, and what an incredible conceptualization of a novel like this.

• 1:20:11Speaker 02

  And she's like, and Daniel Day Lewis, this guy really rocks. He's great in it.

• 1:20:16Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, one of the up until this press run for anemone, you know, he has just not given very many interviews in the last 25 years, but he is featured prominently in this documentary and speaking really like just sincerely about how much he loves Martin Scorsese and loves working with him, but also just like got his head blown off by Taxi Driver and whatnot. Anyway.

• 1:20:31Speaker 02

  I liked it.

• 1:20:32Sean Fennessey?

  Um.

• 1:20:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Big silence guy.

• 1:20:34Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, you might imagine.

• 1:20:35Amanda Dobbins?

  I would, I, I'm sure.

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  He probably vibed with silence.

• 1:20:39Sean Fennessey?

  The age of innocence is wonderful. It's definitely going in.

• 1:20:41Speaker 02

  It's so good. I mean, maybe.

• 1:20:42Sean Fennessey?

  He's good in it. I, you know, I'm not sure that the movie like, he's obviously the essential performer, but I don't know that if you had a different actor, it couldn't work. It's not one of those kinds of performances, you know? I think a lot of his movies, you'd be like, if you take Daniel Day Lewis out, this movie falls apart. That isn't really true for this one. Like if you had put, if you'd put like a young Rupert Everett, would this still be a good movie?

• 1:21:03Amanda Dobbins?

  No, because.

• 1:21:04Speaker 02

  You named an actor I don't love. Sorry Rupert Everett.

• 1:21:06Amanda Dobbins?

  And I like him, but Rupert Everett, I like him.

• 1:21:09Speaker 02

  But what about like Colin Firth?

• 1:21:12Speaker 02

  He's a little young, but.

• 1:21:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Again, they are people with this, this silly strain, right? You know, they are like, I mean, and I think, I think also the Michelle Pfeiffer, DDL chemistry, which is like wordless, but you know, um, by, by nature of the project is amazing and powerful and he doesn't always have that kind of chemistry with other women stars.

• 1:21:37Speaker 02

  She's also the best and is like still in her absolute groove. That kind of laid out.

• 1:21:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:43Speaker 02

  Married to the mob until, I don't know where you cut it off. To me, you would cut it off the one fine day.

• 1:21:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Stand up against her in a way that like, I think Colin Firth would get blown off the screen by Michelle Pfeiffer.

• 1:21:52Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah, yeah, sure. You need someone with a lot of on screen integrity. I mean. It is most, I love, I like him in a lot, but it is a fight for writer, you know, like that's where you come away.

• 1:22:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, sure, yeah.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  Right, thinking about them the most.

• 1:22:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:05Speaker 02

  Um, but maybe it was also just like there were too many costume dramas, like, cause even again, when I think about like, why did this bounce off people a little bit at the time? Was it just like, we just had, we have all the Merchant Ivorys, we had Dangerous Liaison, you know, we were getting too many of these.

• 1:22:20Sean Fennessey?

  Could be.

• 1:22:20Speaker 02

  I don't know, but it's, it's, it stood the test of time.

• 1:22:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, green.

• 1:22:25Speaker 02

  Green, green, green.

• 1:22:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Green.

• 1:22:26Sean Fennessey?

  In the Name of the Father, the same year as The Age of Innocence.

• 1:22:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:31Sean Fennessey?

  And this is his second film with Jim Sheridan.

• 1:22:33Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:22:34Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, this is, I was just listening to a guy named, I believe his name is Brian Flanagan, who runs Largo in Los Angeles.

• 1:22:42Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, he was on WTF, right.

• 1:22:44Sean Fennessey?

  And he's a legendary figure in Los Angeles because he's been running Largo for all these years and he's Northern Irish. And he said, he lived through the troubles and he said, this is the best film about the troubles.

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  This movie rocks.

• 1:22:57Sean Fennessey?

  Amazing film.

• 1:22:58Amanda Dobbins?

  It's a great movie.

• 1:22:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is undersung to some extent now.

• 1:23:02Sean Fennessey?

  Why do you think that, why do you think it doesn't have as much of a, a strong legacy? Cause in the nineties, it felt like an announcement, in my Irish family, this was a very big film.

• 1:23:10Speaker 02

  Well, I would also just say the nineties were the peak of, you know, like the, the final, like era of the troubles, number one. Like, I remember we moved to England in 1995, the Docklands bombing happened shortly thereafter and I was like a nine years old, they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's still like bombs that happen. And as a kid, I was like, huh, like, you know, like, um, but, uh, there was just that wave of Irish, like, present, you know, uh, political, I like the Sheridan movies and my, The Crying Game and, you know, all the, right? Like, it was this, like, wellspring of creativity. And, uh, obviously there was so much, like, human suffering and injustice to document. And this is just like a really great sober look at it, you know, like, and like, at sort of.

• 1:23:56Speaker 02

  A narrative that I feel like anyone can understand. I mean, I don't know.

• 1:24:00Sean Fennessey?

  It's a very quick turnaround from Jerry Conlin's autobiography, which it's based on, which is called Proved Innocent. You know, about his wrongful conviction along with his father in 1974 of a bombing

• 1:24:14Sean Fennessey?

  linked to the IRA and the dispute

• 1:24:17Sean Fennessey?

  at that time in Northern Ireland.

• 1:24:19Speaker 02

  Right. It's about the seventies.

• 1:24:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  It's not. Yeah.

• 1:24:22Sean Fennessey?

  But it is also, for lack of a better term, a regular guy role for Daniel Day Lewis. Obviously, he's playing this kind of martyred political figure.

• 1:24:31Speaker 02

  He's playing a working class guy.

• 1:24:33Sean Fennessey?

  Working class guy, a normal dude and is very affecting.

• 1:24:37Amanda Dobbins?

  He hangs out and smokes weed and, you know.

• 1:24:39Speaker 02

  Gets in a bit of trouble. Like his whole, the whole way they get him, right, is that he's already, he like robs of an apartment or something, right? Like, you know, gets in a little bit of trouble.

• 1:24:49Sean Fennessey?

  And it's funny because we've, in recent years, we've seen Belfast and Say Nothing and like this storytelling about this time in history is back in the news, I suppose, but this was, this was one of the signature works of art about this time in history.

• 1:25:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:06Sean Fennessey?

  And it was like hugely lauded, right? It was like best actor, Emma Thompson was nominated, Pete Posturey was nominated, best picture, best director. Like, it was a huge deal. And it doesn't feel like it is in quite the same conversation with the most iconic Daniel Day Lewis roles.

• 1:25:21Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, he is regular and as opposed to like a, like a mythical historical figure, right? And then, I mean, this is, we love a courtroom drama, you know, but like this is of like very vintage nineties. They don't make them like this anymore.

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  So satisfying. Yes.

• 1:25:40Amanda Dobbins?

  And so satisfying, but for whatever reason, in, you know, the Letterboxh Halls of Fame, that's not what we, it doesn't live on with the same weight as, you know, the other, the big scale. Look at all of these people getting their heads chopped off last in the Mohicans.

• 1:25:57Sean Fennessey?

  I wonder if also it's because of what David was saying about Sheridan before, which is that he doesn't have this hallowed run in the 21st century of movies.

• 1:26:06Speaker 02

  Forgotten auteur. I think it's also, it's like, again, nineteen ninety-three, it's like the conservatives are still in government in England. England is still, I mean, of course, England now has no problems, Britain right now.

• 1:26:16Sean Fennessey?

  Seems like it's going.

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  Great country.

• 1:26:17Sean Fennessey?

  Smooth.

• 1:26:18Speaker 02

  Running, smooth. But like in the nineties, it's still like, Britain is the evil people who perpetrated, like the evil government that perpetrated a lot of stuff. Is still basically just in charge and quite hostile to Irish independence and like, you know, northern, you know, like it's hostile.

• 1:26:36Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 1:26:36Speaker 02

  And so there's still this kind of urgency.

• 1:26:39Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 1:26:39Speaker 02

  Versus like you watch Belfast now, well, that's a bad movie. But like even say, you know, where it's like, no, now it's a period piece.

• 1:26:46Sean Fennessey?

  Flanagan was very upset about Belfast. He was like, why are the streets so clean in this movie?

• 1:26:50Speaker 02

  That movie.

• 1:26:51Sean Fennessey?

  Streets of Belfast are not clean.

• 1:26:52Speaker 02

  I am something of a branded defender. Like I like him as like a goofy kind of high, you know, energy. Like I, I just, he cannot do gritty realism or whatever the hell that movie's going for.

• 1:27:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Who does he play in Oppenheimer?

• 1:27:05Speaker 02

  Uh, Neil's Boar?

• 1:27:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it's great when he shows up. Like, and is basically a psych gag. I enjoy it. I mean, we'll never forgive him for the Emma Thompson stuff, but anyway.

• 1:27:15Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, right. Kind of ran a bit of an asshole.

• 1:27:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:27:18Speaker 02

  Sorry, but like, you know, as an artist, I enjoy.

• 1:27:21Sean Fennessey?

  I have not spoken with him.

• 1:27:22Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, it's like, I, like, I, I am, I am team Emma forever. Can we, can we just, can we talk about? Daniel Day Lewis, a very Englishman, just being like.

• 1:27:32Speaker 02

  Being Irish.

• 1:27:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Being like the pride of Irish, pride of Irish. Well, yeah. And I know that that's complicated.

• 1:27:37Sean Fennessey?

  Descent.

• 1:27:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:27:38Speaker 02

  Look.

• 1:27:39Amanda Dobbins?

  And, and.

• 1:27:40Sean Fennessey?

  We claim him. I claim him.

• 1:27:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Mostly because he like works with Jim Sheridan over and over again.

• 1:27:46Sean Fennessey?

  Because of those three movies that he made.

• 1:27:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:48Sean Fennessey?

  Where he plays three very famous Irish figures and his father was born in Ireland.

• 1:27:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:27:52Sean Fennessey?

  And he wasn't, you know, I think he, I think Cecil moved at a very young age to England and then became, as you said, the Paula Lourdes. So he's considered like an Irish, an English icon.

• 1:28:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:28:01Speaker 02

  This is when I wanted to triple check about Cecil Day Lewis. But Cecil Day Lewis was Irish and born in Ireland. Some of his family, you know, did trace back to England, but you know, he was.

• 1:28:15Sean Fennessey?

  All Irish, right?

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  Well, really, I mean, you know, these, these islands are very near each other.

• 1:28:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. And it's fraught. You know, I get that it's fraught.

• 1:28:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:24Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's because he plays both.

• 1:28:26Speaker 02

  We moved to London at the age of two. But look, you know, English, when I lived in London, you would meet these Londoners whose parents had lived in London for a long time, but say one of them was Scottish or whatever. They'd be like, I am Scottish, by the way. You know, like, and like, it was so vital and it's, I understood it.

• 1:28:41Sean Fennessey?

  Identity bound, yeah.

• 1:28:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. And also, England sucks and Scotland and Ireland rule. Yeah. Like, you know, and like, I remember as a kid, you moved to England and there's such insane prejudice towards people with red hair there, partly because it's a small provincial country. And then like, I said to my mom, I was like, we call this kid like a ginger. And it's like, it's like loaded in a way that confuses me. And she's like, David, it's like a thousand years of anti-Irish shit and Scottish. You know what I mean? Like, what you are experiencing is like 12th century hatred of like Celtic people.

• 1:29:14Sean Fennessey?

  You're wondering why I'm a little bit ornery sometimes.

• 1:29:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:29:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:18Sean Fennessey?

  I am from a long line of men and women who are like, what the fuck? Get out of my country.

• 1:29:24Speaker 02

  And I, as this outsider who lived in England, I found the royal family to be like this goofy institution that was kind of amusing and interesting. I did not have that like understandable, like thing of like, why do they get to be in charge of me, even in a ceremonial way? Uh, anyway, uh, so like, I understand, like, he has that connection to the country and it matters to him. And he's good at doing Irish accents, like he's great.

• 1:29:47Sean Fennessey?

  He's good at doing Irish accents. Yeah, he's so credible in this movie. Right. Um, and In the Name of the Father, I think is going in automatically. Oscar nominated, a great film.

• 1:29:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure, but I think Unherald's.

• 1:29:57Sean Fennessey?

  A bit unheralded.

• 1:29:58Speaker 02

  I hope more people will watch it now.

• 1:30:00Sean Fennessey?

  It's worth watching. It's really good. It is my favorite of the Sheridan films, though it sounds like maybe not.

• 1:30:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. Absolutely. And it is really watchable also, you know?

• 1:30:08Sean Fennessey?

  It's 90s conventional, but serious and, and moving.

• 1:30:12Speaker 02

  I have a very soft spot for In America, which is not a perfect movie, but has like these transcendent moments in it, but obviously Daniel Day-Lewis is not in that.

• 1:30:21Sean Fennessey?

  A movie that I think resonates very deeply right now.

• 1:30:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:23Sean Fennessey?

  A movie about, you know, coming to this country as an immigrant. Uh, 1996, The Crucible. This one, this is a tough set.

• 1:30:31Speaker 02

  So I call this movie, uh, straight to homework. This is a kind of movie I call straight to homework.

• 1:30:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:36Speaker 02

  Like where it's like, the movie comes out, it doesn't resonate with you. He got an Oscar nomination or two, I get it, but like, like, and then the studio's like, it's fine. It's fine. It'll just play in schools for the rest of our life. You know, like that, that, that's what this will be now. This movie kinda sucks.

• 1:30:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I'm trying to look up, so in 2014, I went to England and I saw The Crucible.

• 1:30:56Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:30:56Sean Fennessey?

  At the Old Vic.

• 1:30:57Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:30:57Sean Fennessey?

  Who was? Uh, and it was, Richard Armitage was John Proctor.

• 1:31:00Speaker 02

  Sure, I could see him doing that.

• 1:31:01Sean Fennessey?

  And, you know, it was in the round and there was in, the production design was incredible and it was astonishing. It was one of, it's one of the best theater going experiences I've ever had in my life. The woman named Samantha Colley played Abigail, who I was not familiar with, who I guess is, works in television in England. Stunning. There's a, like a brilliant.

• 1:31:20Speaker 02

  And so you've seen The Crucible work.

• 1:31:21Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, right, yeah, right. And, you know, I, I read it in school like everyone else and I, I think it's a profound work of art.

• 1:31:27Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:31:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Metaphorical story. Here we are again.

• 1:31:33Sean Fennessey?

  I got it. I loved it. It's, I think it's an essential text to understanding allegory for

• 1:31:39Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:31:39Sean Fennessey?

  Young, literate people. Um, but I had never seen it staged because the, is there another film adaptation? There must be another film adaptation.

• 1:31:47Speaker 02

  I think there might be one from like, right when it, uh, came out, uh, but I actually.

• 1:31:55Sean Fennessey?

  It's kinda surprising if there isn't.

• 1:31:57Speaker 02

  Um, let's see.

• 1:32:00Sean Fennessey?

  But thi- this is not, not a great movie.

• 1:32:03Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 1:32:03Speaker 02

  There's, there's a French one from 57.

• 1:32:07Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:32:08Speaker 02

  But that, oh, Le Crucible. Uh, no, I, I, but maybe there isn't another film version that, um, yeah, that's it. This was the first, and of course, Miller did, he wrote the screenplay and got an Oscar nomination, which was kind of one of those like, we're happy to not honor a legend.

• 1:32:27Sean Fennessey?

  It's nice to have Arthur Miller at the Academy Awards.

• 1:32:29Speaker 02

  It's sort of around the same time that Branagh gets the famous Oscar nomination for adapting Hamlet, a movie where he cut zero lines. Like, and they gave him a best adapted screenplay.

• 1:32:38Sean Fennessey?

  Now, here's the challenging thing about this.

• 1:32:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:40Sean Fennessey?

  Nicholas Heitner directed this movie.

• 1:32:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:42Sean Fennessey?

  You know what else he directed?

• 1:32:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, Maness of King George and Center Stage.

• 1:32:46Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:47Sean Fennessey?

  So, and The Object of My Affection.

• 1:32:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, and, and, and the History Boys, you know, another adaptation.

• 1:32:52Speaker 02

  Kind of a, kind of a Dobbins guy?

• 1:32:54Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm into it, yes, but this one doesn't work.

• 1:32:56Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:56Speaker 02

  Heitner was-

• 1:32:57Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, casting one on a writer in your movie can really be a mixed, a mixed situation.

• 1:33:02Speaker 02

  And it's sort of at the end of her.

• 1:33:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it is at the end of her.

• 1:33:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, it's, I don't think she is totally wrong in this, and she is bringing something to the Abigail character that is, like, you know, teen girls in that situation like can be really annoying, so, you know, respectfully, I was one once, so, and, and unbelievable, and she, so there is, it's playing with the text a little bit, but does she, like, stand up against Daniel Day-Lewis or Joan, or Joan Allen?

• 1:33:41Speaker 02

  Joan Allen is really good in this movie.

• 1:33:42Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 1:33:43Speaker 02

  It's that era where she was good in everything and was like this supporting, rela- I think that he is just fine. I mean, like, he's all intensity. I just never really feel like he finds a guy in it. He's just delivering the lines with like a ton of, you know, roaring passion.

• 1:33:58Amanda Dobbins?

  It's like, it's all-

• 1:34:00Speaker 02

  He's fine.

• 1:34:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Righteousness and no, no person.

• 1:34:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, it just feels like they were like, can you do Last of the Mohicans guy? Can you do like long-haired, kind of raw energy guy? I mean, I don't know what they said to him. They probably said more than that. I mean, they certainly said meet my daughter Rebecca.

• 1:34:14Sean Fennessey?

  I didn't, I didn't revisit this one.

• 1:34:15Speaker 02

  I did because if I had seen it, it was in school.

• 1:34:19Sean Fennessey?

  I didn't have any memory of it. I can't remember.

• 1:34:21Speaker 02

  Nicholas Heitner, to shout him out, did make a lot of good movies in the 90s, became the National Theater Director when I was a teenager, Britain, London's National Theater, artistic director, taking over from Trevor Nunn, who was this like very divisive, in my opinion, good, but interesting kind of guy. And yeah, the history, like, you know, spearheaded a lot of really good stuff.

• 1:34:40Amanda Dobbins?

  And you've still never seen Center Stage. He's never seen Center Stage.

• 1:34:42Speaker 02

  Center Stage is a blast.

• 1:34:43Amanda Dobbins?

  It's so good.

• 1:34:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a fun one.

• 1:34:46Sean Fennessey?

  That'll be a really good pod.

• 1:34:47Speaker 02

  And he was really just a-

• 1:34:48Sean Fennessey?

  When I watched Center Stage and Mamma Mia in Succession.

• 1:34:51Speaker 02

  It's kinda weird you've never seen Mamma Mia.

• 1:34:53Amanda Dobbins?

  It is weird.

• 1:34:54Speaker 02

  Have you not seen Here We Go Again?

• 1:34:55Sean Fennessey?

  Well, that would be an odd choice, right?

• 1:34:57Speaker 02

  Well, because like Mamma Mia- Mamma Mia is a, it's a calamitously made film. Everyone in it is good because they're having fun. It is a film that looks like it was directed by like Ascension Jet Ski. Like, it's just like, every shot is framed in a bizarre way. The lighting is bad. You're just like, what the fuck happened?

• 1:35:17Amanda Dobbins?

  It's really true. It's like, they are in Greece and they look like they are on like a soundstage in my backyard.

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  In New Jersey, it's so bad. And then Here We Go Again is one of the scenes where you're like, Jesus, they already burned all the good songs. They're doing this weird Godfather Part Two like narrative, like, I don't, how could this possibly be good?

• 1:35:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me. And then Cher shows up.

• 1:35:36Speaker 02

  No, no, no, the whole thing is, and then that movie is 40 times better than the first one.

• 1:35:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Here We Go Again?

• 1:35:41Speaker 02

  Yes, so much better.

• 1:35:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, so you're a Lily James person?

• 1:35:43Speaker 02

  No, it, well, I mean, I like Lily James.

• 1:35:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, alright.

• 1:35:46Speaker 02

  Red-blooded, I'm a red-blooded American man. No, no, I, no, I just think that movie kinda rocks and is way better made and like, that movie's good.

• 1:35:55Amanda Dobbins?

  It's, it's, it's okay. I mean, the original one has Meryl Streep screaming The Winner Takes It All and Pierce Brosnan at the bottom of like, you know, on their way to a church.

• 1:36:08Speaker 02

  Singing like he's being attacked.

• 1:36:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, he, he sounds like a donkey in distress.

• 1:36:13Speaker 02

  It just feels like there's like eight people on, like, holding him while he's like, ah, you know, like, you know what I mean? Like, that someone's trying to drag him into hell.

• 1:36:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, but, I mean, the, the Winner Takes It All scene is just one of the most incredible things that's ever happened.

• 1:36:26Speaker 02

  I love those movies, they're special.

• 1:36:27Amanda Dobbins?

  But then, then the second one, and I'm sorry to spoil this for you. The second one, when Cher sings Fernando-

• 1:36:35Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 1:36:36Amanda Dobbins?

  And Andy Garcia's Fernando, like, I'm sorry, that- Is that to me, that is cinema. It's so wonderful.

• 1:36:44Speaker 02

  As I always say, Andy Garcia plays a sentient bottle of red wine.

• 1:36:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. But like, that is so much more fun than The Crucible, you know?

• 1:36:51Speaker 02

  It's definitely better than.

• 1:36:52Sean Fennessey?

  Way to bring it back. Thank you for bringing it back.

• 1:36:54Speaker 02

  Red.

• 1:36:55Sean Fennessey?

  Red for The Crucible. 1997, The Boxer.

• 1:36:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:36:58Sean Fennessey?

  This is the third and final film with Jim Sheridan.

• 1:37:00Speaker 02

  And it's his first retirement. It's his first, like, I'm gone.

• 1:37:03Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm going to make shoes.

• 1:37:04Speaker 02

  Yes. And it was the, I was 11, I lived in England, and it was, I remember the mythos of like, he like learned to box. Like, look out. He's boxing good in this movie. And then.

• 1:37:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Do you box?

• 1:37:16Speaker 02

  Me? No.

• 1:37:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:37:17Speaker 02

  Not yet. No, I haven't, I haven't tried that one.

• 1:37:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Have you ever been in?

• 1:37:21Sean Fennessey?

  I did box in high school, but not in, since it's become like the cool workout thing that men do.

• 1:37:26Speaker 02

  The way to exercise, right?

• 1:37:27Sean Fennessey?

  No, no, just like recreationally at school.

• 1:37:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh.

• 1:37:32Sean Fennessey?

  So, The Boxer, he did learn to box. This movie is a kind of an inversion of In the Name of the Father, where he plays a provisional IRA volunteer who goes to prison, and he gets out of prison and is going straight.

• 1:37:45Speaker 02

  At like age 19, like he was, right.

• 1:37:47Sean Fennessey?

  And he gets out, and he's trying to go straight, and he's trying to stay out of the fight.

• 1:37:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:37:51Sean Fennessey?

  While fighting.

• 1:37:53Speaker 02

  Right. And it's about like intercelline warfare within the IRA, which was like a big thing. It's a real thing, like of like, right, there how there were splinters in the IRA versus of like, how hard do we go? How, you know, how do we fight for independence? Like, how, you know, how much sort of terrorism do we do versus like, and that's all interesting. It's not an uninteresting movie.

• 1:38:16Sean Fennessey?

  It's sort of like a solid.

• 1:38:17Speaker 02

  Relatively engaging drama.

• 1:38:19Sean Fennessey?

  I think it has a great final reveal. You know, like, the ending is very exciting, but it is the, it is lesser than In the Name of the Father to me. That being said, I don't know if you, you know, when you look at the Hall of Fame.

• 1:38:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:34Sean Fennessey?

  Is this one of his best performances because of the transformational aspect?

• 1:38:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Whatever. No.

• 1:38:38Speaker 02

  He's pretty good in it.

• 1:38:39Sean Fennessey?

  You guys are, okay, yellow. Well, yellow the boxer.

• 1:38:42Speaker 02

  Emily Watson's good in it. Sort of nice to remember her peak, like, right, this is right post Breaking the Waves. Uh, she's quite lovely in it, but like, I couldn't really tell you much about this movie that, and I rewatched it.

• 1:38:54Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I didn't rewatch it.

• 1:38:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, like that, that really stuck with me.

• 1:38:59Speaker 02

  And it was, I do feel like everyone was a little sick of his shit at this point.

• 1:39:03Sean Fennessey?

  I think you might be right.

• 1:39:04Speaker 02

  Like, it's like playing these like very serious, very intense men.

• 1:39:09Speaker 02

  And, you know, like, he wasn't finding maybe the most engaging projects. And then he's like, well, I'm not gonna act anymore. And everyone's like, alright, sorry.

• 1:39:19Sean Fennessey?

  Five years go by before Gangs of New York. So he returns a decade later to work with Martin Scorsese again. This is a Martin Scorsese dream project. He's been trying to get off the ground for 25 years.

• 1:39:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, who are other guys who would have been Bill the Butcher? Like, I feel like, cause there's-

• 1:39:34Sean Fennessey?

  I think De Niro would have made sense in the 80s.

• 1:39:36Speaker 02

  Cause there's so many, right, versions of this movie that were theorized or whatever and never got funded.

• 1:39:42Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I mean, there is obviously something to that voice that he brings, which is this interesting kind of new century American. You know, it is not, cause he is not doing the, the, the British guy voice. He's doing the over-annunciated American voice, the Bill the Butcher.

• 1:40:00Speaker 02

  And, but it's all, it's, it's the first Daniel, he's like Bane. Or whatever. Where people are like, wait, what's this voice?

• 1:40:06Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:40:07Speaker 02

  And then people start doing the voice, cause they're like, I don't, I, I never heard anyone talk like this.

• 1:40:11Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, she knows it.

• 1:40:12Speaker 02

  Look, I am a passionate and huge defender of this movie. I think this movie is incredible.

• 1:40:17Sean Fennessey?

  Some things in this movie are incredible.

• 1:40:20Speaker 02

  It's a movie that I- About minute 172, for example.

• 1:40:23Sean Fennessey?

  So, again, I will redirect to the Mr. Scorsese documentary where there is a lot of discussion about the ways in which the script is changing every day on this movie.

• 1:40:33Speaker 02

  It had so many passes over so many years.

• 1:40:35Sean Fennessey?

  And there's, there's a version of the movie that Jay Cox wrote in whatever, 1982.

• 1:40:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:40:40Sean Fennessey?

  That is a world, like, an all-time masterpiece. But then, it's a movie that was always going to cost an enormous amount of money to make because of its scale. And it's, it's, it's never in my favorite Scorsese movie conversation. I will say, I think Bill the Butcher is one of the greatest Scorsese performances in his, in the history of his movies. You don't, you don't-

• 1:41:00Speaker 02

  Have you all seen this movie 20 times? Or am I the only one?

• 1:41:03Amanda Dobbins?

  No, you, I've seen it so many times. I, I got a Cameron Diaz thing. And Charlie's Angels was her last good movie.

• 1:41:10Speaker 02

  If you got a Cameron Diaz thing, this movie is like poisoned.

• 1:41:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly.

• 1:41:13Speaker 02

  Because this is her trying a lot.

• 1:41:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Charlie's Angels was a masterpiece and then, and then I had to get off the train.

• 1:41:20Speaker 02

  It's kind of right.

• 1:41:21Sean Fennessey?

  I like Cameron Diaz, he's a miscast.

• 1:41:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:22Speaker 02

  She's a good miscast in the movie. It's in this run of interesting, like being Don Malkovich. Uh, Vanilla, uh, Skye is the year after, or the same year. But like where it's just like, whoa, Cameron Diaz is doing something, right? Like there were like a few years of that. Uh, but that's not, this movie gets drowned in like the Leo hype and.

• 1:41:41Sean Fennessey?

  The movie only gets made because of Leonardo DiCaprio, because he wants to make a movie with Martin Scorsese.

• 1:41:46Speaker 02

  Right, and Scorsese spies an opportunity.

• 1:41:48Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, and that, and it leads to this long running relationship between the two of them. And, and it is Leo using his powers for good. I mean, that's really what, you know, even if the film doesn't totally come together, it's him saying, doing the same that we've been litigating this year with one battle after another where he's like, I call it, kind of only want to make movies that I want to see.

• 1:42:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:42:07Sean Fennessey?

  With directors that I think are interesting.

• 1:42:08Speaker 02

  I'm no longer making like strategic, yeah, so De Niro at one point. I think Malcolm McDowell like way back in the day, but I think he may have been considered for either lead role. Like, I don't know, but yeah.

• 1:42:20Sean Fennessey?

  He would have been a good Bill the Butcher.

• 1:42:21Speaker 02

  Right, like.

• 1:42:22Sean Fennessey?

  There's definitely some Alex from Clockwork Orange in there, that kind of sadist intensity.

• 1:42:26Speaker 02

  Um, but he's, to me, young David, I was like, I can't, who is, like, I knew who he was, but I was like,

• 1:42:34Sean Fennessey?

  DDL.

• 1:42:35Speaker 02

  He lived up to the hype of, oh, you don't understand, this guy's like a cage tiger. And like, he's back and he's playing the most ridiculous guy you ever saw. To, to Flash of the Future, he's kind of, in my opinion, playing evil Abraham Lincoln. He's got a big stovepipe hat, it's a civil war movie, and he's just like, I hate everyone who's not me, you know, like, and he's.

• 1:42:55Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm okay, I'm, I'm okay with doing it.

• 1:42:57Sean Fennessey?

  It's definitely going in, it was always going in.

• 1:42:59Speaker 02

  He was gonna win the Oscar.

• 1:43:00Sean Fennessey?

  The America's speech is like one of the great scenes in the Scorsese filmography. It's, to me, it's just like a really, it's a Frankenstein of a movie, but at a young age, it, it, it makes sense that it would just like overwhelm you because of it's, it's so big and so intense.

• 1:43:14Speaker 02

  But it was like, he was gonna win the Oscar, right? It's that year where everyone in the, everyone in Best Actor, he wins like a lot of the precursors and stuff. Everyone nominated for Best Actor had won an Oscar before, except for Adrian Brody, who wins, right? Am I getting this right?

• 1:43:27Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting.

• 1:43:28Speaker 02

  It was the year where DDL was the fave, and then you had like Nicholson in About Schmidt. Cage in adaptation.

• 1:43:34Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 1:43:35Speaker 02

  And there's a Michael Caine in Quite American.

• 1:43:37Sean Fennessey?

  Very good.

• 1:43:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Wow.

• 1:43:38Sean Fennessey?

  That was very impressive.

• 1:43:39Speaker 02

  Thank you. And, and I think because all those guys were these like veterans, like, and because Adrian Brody was so, you know, and the penis just came on late and all that.

• 1:43:49Sean Fennessey?

  They had all also very recently won.

• 1:43:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, and so Adrian Brody wins, but it was supposed to be his third Oscar. Not like in some grand narrative way, but everyone was kind of like, oh, I guess get out the way. Like Daniel Day Lewis is back.

• 1:44:01Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. And it's interesting that he's nominated for actor because I'm not sure if he is the leading actor of this movie.

• 1:44:06Speaker 02

  I think they probably ran him and Leo, but you're right. I mean, it's sort of.

• 1:44:10Sean Fennessey?

  You know, that's Chris Cooper wins for adaptation and.

• 1:44:12Speaker 02

  And supporting.

• 1:44:13Sean Fennessey?

  DDL might've won there, you know, if he had run in there.

• 1:44:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:15Sean Fennessey?

  Category fraud will get you everywhere somewhere.

• 1:44:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Until, until you win because of it. So.

• 1:44:20Sean Fennessey?

  That's right. Um, another three years go by, he makes a film with his wife called The Ballad of Jack and Rose. He's since married Rebecca Miller. She writes and directs this small drama. It's very unlike any other film he's ever made. Um, kind of a, kind of like a curious, um, what is a reverse Oedipus situation?

• 1:44:38Speaker 02

  Sure. Right.

• 1:44:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Medius, no.

• 1:44:39Speaker 02

  Electra.

• 1:44:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Electra.

• 1:44:40Sean Fennessey?

  Thank you. Um, starring Catherine Keating.

• 1:44:44Speaker 02

  Jennifer Garner's in it and she does fight a guy whose tattoos come to life.

• 1:44:46Sean Fennessey?

  That's right.

• 1:44:48Speaker 02

  That does happen in the film Electra.

• 1:44:49Sean Fennessey?

  Colin Farrell. Um, Sundance movie, small film. Didn't make like a ton of waves.

• 1:44:55Speaker 02

  I hate this movie. I think it sucks. Yeah.

• 1:44:56Sean Fennessey?

  Do you really?

• 1:44:57Speaker 02

  I've never liked this movie.

• 1:44:58Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't mind it.

• 1:44:59Speaker 02

  I, I, there's something about it that sets my teeth on edge. There's, it's so interesting that the two times he's collaborated with a family member, he's played an off the grid guy. Like.

• 1:45:08Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:45:08Speaker 02

  He, he did this with his wife and then right, like 20 years later, his son is like another guy off the grid. And he's like, yeah, I fucking love being off the grid.

• 1:45:17Sean Fennessey?

  I love when you can kind of like read into the circumstances.

• 1:45:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:45:20Sean Fennessey?

  A little bit there.

• 1:45:21Speaker 02

  He is.

• 1:45:22Sean Fennessey?

  Why are they writing these parts for the stand?

• 1:45:24Speaker 02

  It's good. Right.

• 1:45:24Amanda Dobbins?

  A man apart. Yeah.

• 1:45:25Speaker 02

  This is a much like an anem- anem- anem- aneminy. Uh, you know, he's playing a guy who's haunted by sort of specific circumstances. This is like Irish mosquito coast where it's just like, why is this guy like this?

• 1:45:38Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:45:38Speaker 02

  He's just kind of a pain in the ass and his, his family needs to be shot of him. He's charismatic. Mismatic in his way.

• 1:45:44Sean Fennessey?

  I'll tell you what, I see it as a kind of like post sixties retreat. You know, like we're talking about Bob Ferguson.

• 1:45:51Speaker 02

  Captain Fantastic, right? Was that that one too?

• 1:45:53Sean Fennessey?

  Very good comp, yes, very similar. Sort of like the world in the seventies broke my heart.

• 1:45:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:45:58Sean Fennessey?

  And I am retreating from it and I'm, I'm gonna protect my family. But sometimes that isolation breeds a kind of bizarre closeness that is a little bit toxic.

• 1:46:07Speaker 02

  You know what the best version of that movie is?

• 1:46:09Sean Fennessey?

  I really like this movie. I'm surprised to hear you say that.

• 1:46:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, sorry. But you know what the best version of that movie is?

• 1:46:14Sean Fennessey?

  What is it?

• 1:46:15Speaker 02

  M. Night Shyamalan's The Village. It's one of the great movies.

• 1:46:18Sean Fennessey?

  Well, it's about a community and not a family.

• 1:46:20Speaker 02

  But it's the same thing.

• 1:46:20Sean Fennessey?

  It is the same idea.

• 1:46:21Speaker 02

  That thing of like, can I protect my kids from the world?

• 1:46:23Sean Fennessey?

  The heartbreak of the weather underground, yeah.

• 1:46:25Speaker 02

  By building a fence, you know? The answer is no.

• 1:46:29Sean Fennessey?

  Did they come out in the same year? When's The Village?

• 1:46:31Speaker 02

  They're similar. I think Village is oh four.

• 1:46:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, okay. Uh, I don't think it's going in because it's not considered one of his great performances.

• 1:46:37Speaker 02

  It's pretty forgotten.

• 1:46:39Sean Fennessey?

  It is.

• 1:46:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:39Sean Fennessey?

  Um, and it was not.

• 1:46:40Speaker 02

  Camille Bell, very winsome, young.

• 1:46:43Sean Fennessey?

  In affective screen presence.

• 1:46:45Speaker 02

  I don't know. She was around for a while.

• 1:46:47Sean Fennessey?

  Horror movies, right?

• 1:46:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:48Sean Fennessey?

  Wasn't she, was she in the When a Stranger Calls remake?

• 1:46:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:46:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, she was.

• 1:46:52Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:46:52Amanda Dobbins?

  And.

• 1:46:54Speaker 02

  She was in one of the sister ones. There was one with sisters or something.

• 1:46:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Not From Prada to Nada?

• 1:46:59Speaker 02

  Probably not.

• 1:47:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:00Sean Fennessey?

  I haven't seen that.

• 1:47:01Speaker 02

  It sounds like a horror film in a way.

• 1:47:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:47:03Speaker 02

  I would hate to go from Prada to Nada.

• 1:47:04Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm, I'm.

• 1:47:08Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm at Nada, so uh, it's, it's, I'd love to go to Prada. I haven't heard of most of these, these films in the last 10 years. They seem to be Netflix originals.

• 1:47:18Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, Jack Sanders has already greened There Will Be Blood.

• 1:47:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure, yeah.

• 1:47:24Sean Fennessey?

  Two thousand and seven.

• 1:47:28Sean Fennessey?

  He's probably got his pick of projects at this point. Multi Oscar winner, multi Oscar nominee. And Paul Thomas Anderson writes for him, There Will Be Blood. His story about a an oil man.

• 1:47:40Speaker 02

  Was he, he's, he's an oil man. Was he resistant to it? Like, I, I can't remember if there was like that in the backstory of like PTA being like, I wrote this for you and him being like, well, don't write things for me.

• 1:47:52Sean Fennessey?

  When he was on Bill Simmons's show, we asked him about it and we tried to get him to kind of demythologize some of this. Paul Thomas Anderson, yeah, not Daniel Day-Lewis.

• 1:48:01Speaker 02

  Daniel Day-Lewis doesn't want to talk about like this or.

• 1:48:03Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, it seems like he would have today.

• 1:48:05Speaker 02

  Six Celtics.

• 1:48:07Sean Fennessey?

  You never know.

• 1:48:09Speaker 02

  I don't, he likes, he's a Millwall fan, which is really interesting because.

• 1:48:11Sean Fennessey?

  What's Millwall? That's a soccer club?

• 1:48:13Speaker 02

  Millwall's a soccer team in, in, in, uh, East London that is even by British soccer team standards notorious for hooliganism.

• 1:48:22Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting.

• 1:48:22Speaker 02

  And really intense fans. Their, their stadium is called The Den. They're not usually a Premier League team. They tend to play more in the second tier. And that's one of those places where it's like, yeah, you go, you go there if you want a stabbing, you know? And so it contributes to like this intense image you have of him going to Millwall and like drinking bavril and screaming.

• 1:48:40Sean Fennessey?

  Well, there, there, there may not be a more intense character on his CV than Daniel Plainview.

• 1:48:45Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, this is it. This is the calling card.

• 1:48:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is a guy that it would be tough to like get a cup of coffee with, right? Daniel Plainview.

• 1:48:51Sean Fennessey?

  Well, he could be charming in a paternalistic way when he wants something until he kind of loses his mind. But you see in the, part of what I think is interesting about this performance is it is a true spiral. Like you from start to finish, he's obviously a man possessed from the very first time that you see him. But he does have to use his wiles to get into these communities and get the things that he wants until it goes batshit.

• 1:49:13Speaker 02

  The heartbeat of the movie, the tenderness with the boy and then the way it changes. And I mean, it's such a good movie. I haven't watched it in a few years. I figured I didn't need to revisit it too long that it is a green.

• 1:49:24Sean Fennessey?

  We're being confronted by what is the best Paul Thomas Anderson movie because we've been doing 25 for 25.

• 1:49:29Speaker 02

  Right, mine's coming up in this discussion.

• 1:49:31Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, that's exciting.

• 1:49:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:49:33Amanda Dobbins?

  All right.

• 1:49:34Speaker 02

  This is his opus. This felt like the kind of like, he's got the early messy masterpiecey kind of things. Then he does Punch Drunk Love and everyone's like, weird. And like, I mean, I love that movie to be clear, but like, you know? Uh, and then he comes out with this and everyone's like, yeah, yeah, whatever. Canonical American, great director. You're not going to be deposed from that kind of rank now.

• 1:49:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:49:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:56Sean Fennessey?

  I think, and I think.

• 1:49:57Speaker 02

  Like a movie about America, you know?

• 1:49:59Sean Fennessey?

  Right, right. It is, it is a, a capital T themes movie that also features, I, I think if you just. Polled, anyone who would define themselves as a movie fan, what's the best movie acting performance of the 21st century?

• 1:50:13Amanda Dobbins?

  It is.

• 1:50:13Sean Fennessey?

  This is gonna come up a lot.

• 1:50:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:50:15Sean Fennessey?

  Um, it's obviously Otto Green.

• 1:50:17Speaker 02

  It's also a capital M memes movie, though. It's like, it is like a people, younger people on the internet are like, this voice, these lines, the milkshake scene, like, whatever, like, there's stuff that younger people are responding to.

• 1:50:29Sean Fennessey?

  There's nothing I like more than give me the blood lord when he's, you know, receiving the, the, the body of Christ.

• 1:50:36Speaker 02

  Do you like this movie, Amanda?

• 1:50:37Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I like it, I admire it, I, I accept it as a masterpiece.

• 1:50:42Speaker 02

  But it's not like a-

• 1:50:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, we did PTA rankings and it's not, you know, updated PTA rankings.

• 1:50:47Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:50:48Amanda Dobbins?

  And it doesn't speak to me the way, like, the back half of the career does, that, which, you know, features women. This is, this is-

• 1:50:57Speaker 02

  This movie is light on ladies.

• 1:50:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty closed off. It is, it's like, and, and look, again, it's a masterpiece, but sometimes I'm like, that seems like a you guys problem, you know? So, like, and it's, I was like-

• 1:51:10Speaker 02

  Oh, are you like, alright?

• 1:51:12Amanda Dobbins?

  So, so it's gonna be interesting what we decide to do on, on 25 for 25.

• 1:51:18Sean Fennessey?

  It sure is.

• 1:51:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:19Sean Fennessey?

  Um, 2009, nine. The film is called Nine.

• 1:51:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. Is this sequel to Eight and a Half, baby?

• 1:51:27Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, how-

• 1:51:28Speaker 02

  That's why it's called that, right? You guys know that, right?

• 1:51:30Amanda Dobbins?

  How does this-

• 1:51:30Sean Fennessey?

  Well, is it a sequel?

• 1:51:31Speaker 02

  It's not, it, the, the title Nine is a jokey reference to the fact that it is Eight and a Half as a musical.

• 1:51:37Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:51:37Amanda Dobbins?

  So, talk me through this.

• 1:51:39Speaker 02

  Well, so, I, I really love the musical Nine. I'm a Broadway musical nerd.

• 1:51:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Alright, do you also like Wicked?

• 1:51:47Speaker 02

  I do, I, I, I am not a huge fan of that show.

• 1:51:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:51:52Speaker 02

  But I do kind of salute its enduring power in a way.

• 1:51:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure, yeah, it means a lot to a lot of people.

• 1:51:58Speaker 02

  I enjoyed the movie. Yes, um, but Nine, I saw Antonio Banderas-

• 1:52:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh.

• 1:52:03Speaker 02

  Play this role, uh, in the Broadway revival. The original was Ralph Julia, who, it was in the eighties, I'm sure he absolutely freaked it, you can listen to, like, recordings of it. But Banderas did it in, in the early 2000s, right around, like, when I'm sure this started to generate. And fucking rocked. That's the one with Jane Krakowski, she won a Tony, um, and- Why not just, I remember when this movie got announced, I was like, Antonio's right there. You can use him. He good at it. Instead they cast Daniel Day-Lewis. I think he was a late addition? Right? Like, wasn't some, something, maybe someone dropped out? Like, there was a bit of a weird genesis to it. And this movie's directed by Rob Marshall.

• 1:52:47Sean Fennessey?

  The men in contention for the role were George Clooney, Javier Bardem, Banderas, and Johnny Depp.

• 1:52:53Amanda Dobbins?

  On May 14th, 2008, Variety reported that Daniel Day-Lewis was in talks to star as Guido Contini, the film's lead character, after Javier Bardem dropped out due to exhaustion.

• 1:53:03Speaker 02

  Sure, okay. I mean, I, I think it must have, right, it's some, for some reason, Day-Lewis like caught wind of this and wanted to do it. And I'm sure when Day-Lewis wants to do your movie, it's like when Katie and Kyrie Irving joined the Nets. Where I think the Nets were like, we didn't realize we were even in, but like, okay? Like, you know what I mean? Where it's like, oh, Daniel Day-Lewis? Okay? And maybe no one thought to sit him down and go like, do you like singing and dancing around?

• 1:53:30Sean Fennessey?

  I don't even really think that's the problem with the movie.

• 1:53:32Speaker 02

  No, it's not. The, right. I was gonna say, the main problem with this movie is that Rob Marshall directed it.

• 1:53:36Amanda Dobbins?

  I was gonna say, how does he say yes to Rob Marshall?

• 1:53:38Sean Fennessey?

  That's, does, it makes no sense. This, this movie is, this musical is adapted by Michael Tolkien and Anthony Mingala. If you just let Anthony Mingala make this movie, isn't this a much better film?

• 1:53:48Speaker 02

  Well, Mingala died, when did he die?

• 1:53:50Sean Fennessey?

  He died right before this movie was made.

• 1:53:52Speaker 02

  Right this time, which was very sad. Um, he would have been better.

• 1:53:57Sean Fennessey?

  He would have been perfect for this.

• 1:53:58Speaker 02

  Had Marshall just done Chicago and Memoirs of a Geisha? Is there a?

• 1:54:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, no.

• 1:54:01Speaker 02

  So like, obviously, he had successfully.

• 1:54:03Sean Fennessey?

  Credible than we view him as now.

• 1:54:06Speaker 02

  He had very successfully brought Chicago to the screen. I'm not denying that. That movie's enjoyable. Memoirs of a Geisha is a trash fire.

• 1:54:12Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:12Speaker 02

  But I guess it had made some money and was a big Tony project or whatever.

• 1:54:16Sean Fennessey?

  Oscar nominations, yeah.

• 1:54:17Speaker 02

  He comes to Nine, which is a musical I really adore, and he's like, what if it's like what I did with Chicago, where it's like a bunch of fucking catwalks? You know what I mean? Like, he has no further take.

• 1:54:26Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 1:54:27Speaker 02

  I feel like visually, and you're, you're doing a musical that is related to Eight and a Half, which is a fairly visually dynamic movie.

• 1:54:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:36Speaker 02

  That's kind of well regarded.

• 1:54:38Amanda Dobbins?

  It's kind of, yeah, I don't know.

• 1:54:40Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, the ingeniousness of making Eight and a Half a stage musical.

• 1:54:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:54:47Sean Fennessey?

  I understand completely.

• 1:54:48Speaker 02

  It's a really fun show.

• 1:54:49Sean Fennessey?

  But as soon as you make it a cinematic experience, you are burdened by the history of Eight and a Half. And you have to try to reinvent it. And the problem is, his conception of reinvention is an artificiality that looks cheap.

• 1:55:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:01Sean Fennessey?

  The movie looks cheap.

• 1:55:02Speaker 02

  It looks really junky. He can't, weirdly, he can't shoot musical sequences. It drives me crazy because he's a great choreographer. And like, Chicago, again, I will sort of put aside, but ever since then, he cuts into the action constantly. He won't let you like, enjoy choreography, which makes me so crazy.

• 1:55:20Amanda Dobbins?

  It's insane.

• 1:55:21Speaker 02

  He gets handed $200 million budgets by Disney every few years to make dog shit. I'm, I'm really going after Rob Marshall.

• 1:55:28Sean Fennessey?

  I've talked about it on the show before.

• 1:55:29Speaker 02

  Every single person I've ever interacted with who's interacted with him is like, he's a really nice guy.

• 1:55:33Sean Fennessey?

  Of course, everybody loves him.

• 1:55:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:34Sean Fennessey?

  Everybody that works with him, right.

• 1:55:36Amanda Dobbins?

  But they, they don't look good.

• 1:55:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:38Sean Fennessey?

  His last few movies are The Little Mermaid, Mary Poppins Returns Into the Woods, and Pirates of the Caribbean on Stranger Tides.

• 1:55:43Speaker 02

  When Mary Poppins Returns is

• 1:55:46Sean Fennessey?

  That's a nightmare.

• 1:55:46Speaker 02

  your best of, you know, of your recent efforts, like you're in trouble.

• 1:55:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. I'm sure he's a nice guy.

• 1:55:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:52Sean Fennessey?

  Um, this is not going in the Hall of Fame.

• 1:55:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Not going in, no.

• 1:55:55Sean Fennessey?

  2012 Lincoln.

• 1:55:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:59Sean Fennessey?

  What a, what a banger.

• 1:56:00Amanda Dobbins?

  It really is. It's a banger.

• 1:56:02Sean Fennessey?

  What a banger. Uh, I told the story recently. C R and I went to Ye Rustic Inn, which is a dive come hipster bar in, uh, Los Feliz in L.A.

• 1:56:13Amanda Dobbins?

  We don't have to say that out loud.

• 1:56:14Sean Fennessey?

  But that, that is what it is. But Chris and I have been going there since the day we moved to the city. And we found ourselves there one night, um, a few months ago. And it's a sports bar renowned for its wings.

• 1:56:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Sounds good.

• 1:56:26Sean Fennessey?

  It was very crowded. I think we had just seen a movie together and we went to just get a beer. And all the TVs were playing, you know, NBA, hockey. And then on one solitary television.

• 1:56:38Speaker 02

  Sneaky little screen.

• 1:56:39Sean Fennessey?

  Against the wall on the far right. Was a muted version of Lincoln and there was about 22 minutes left and Chris and I just sat there and watched it. No captions.

• 1:56:50Amanda Dobbins?

  It's like, it is.

• 1:56:50Speaker 02

  And we just looked at it.

• 1:56:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Some good blocking. It's your version of, you think we need one more? You think we need one more? Okay, we'll get one more. This is how men, you two, express your love to each other.

• 1:57:00Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it was great. I mean, obviously, we didn't get a chance to hear Daniel Day-Lewis' performance when we revisited it, but this is an amazing movie.

• 1:57:07Speaker 02

  It immense power.

• 1:57:09Amanda Dobbins?

  This is another one where like they are just all playing dress up and with anybody else, it just, it would have been, and honestly.

• 1:57:18Sean Fennessey?

  It's kind of a Boys and Their Toys movie in some ways.

• 1:57:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Like same cast, but with a different Lincoln. They all do look like they're in like, you know, the history pageant in like seventh grade or something, you know, like mock Congress or whatever we're doing. But, but.

• 1:57:35Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:57:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Because you're willing to go on the, you're like, okay, well now Daniel Day-Lewis is gonna be Lincoln and I'm used to that at this point. And I, he, apparently his voice did sound like that. And so, and he went to the Library of Congress.

• 1:57:49Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:57:49Amanda Dobbins?

  To hear the recording or whatever, you know, so.

• 1:57:52Speaker 02

  He brings like president, you're right, he brings presidential gravitas. That is true. But Lincoln Rocks is one of the funniest movies ever made. It like, every time they're in Congress, it's just about Tommy Lee Jones basically calling people like snakes and worms. Like, they're just like, by the way, all Congress was, was like, the ugliest man in the world just spoke and I condemn him to hell. Like, you know, like.

• 1:58:14Sean Fennessey?

  That's different from right now, you're saying?

• 1:58:15Speaker 02

  Right, yeah, seriously. And then like, everything in the White House, it's basically like, it's dark as fuck, right? Everyone is cold because like, it was cold. Everyone's wearing carpets. Like, Lincoln's just like walking around like covered in blankets. He'll sit down and the great David Strathairn as William Seward or whoever, some great actor as one of his cabinet is like, so what do you want to do about the Civil War? He's like. I had a client once who had a pig and they're like, no, no, shut the fuck up. Shut up. This is the best thing about this movie. They're not like sitting being like, tell us like, stop telling your dumb, folky stories asshole. Like, there's a war. And he's like, hmm, they're an old mill. It's the best.

• 1:58:58Sean Fennessey?

  I really relate to that.

• 1:58:59Speaker 02

  It's the best.

• 1:59:00Sean Fennessey?

  I really do relate to it.

• 1:59:01Speaker 02

  And then, of course, he'll have these moments where he,

• 1:59:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:04Speaker 02

  he lights it up, right? Where he gives you like this sort of like thunderous speech. Yeah. The man of immense character who, right, is like, but it's all about like the dirty work of government that went into like getting the amendment passed and all that. Like, it's not a movie wisely that's like, he was a country lawyer and then he.

• 1:59:26Amanda Dobbins?

  This is also the point where I, I remember where you hear a lot about the method and it's like, did he not use electricity for the entirety of the shoot or something? I don't remember.

• 1:59:36Sean Fennessey?

  He very famously, people have told the stories of, addressing him as, you know, Mr. President.

• 1:59:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:42Speaker 02

  Because like Adam Driver is in that movie, Jeremy Strong, like all these like young actors.

• 1:59:46Sean Fennessey?

  Another one of those Spielberg things too, where it's like, oh, you just plucked out like the five most important up and coming actors for small roles here because you just, you knew, you know, your casting director knew.

• 1:59:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:59:57Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, Lincoln is going in. Not hard.

• 1:59:59Speaker 02

  It's the best. I'm honestly gonna go re-watch it now. I didn't because I've seen it so many times.

• 2:00:03Sean Fennessey?

  Please don't leave until we finish the Hall of Fame.

• 2:00:05Speaker 02

  I gotta go. We're almost done.

• 2:00:07Sean Fennessey?

  We're almost done.

• 2:00:08Speaker 02

  This is the crazy thing.

• 2:00:09Sean Fennessey?

  There's only two more movies.

• 2:00:10Speaker 02

  Peak and then it's basically just like every four years he would make a splash.

• 2:00:14Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. He won the Academy Award for this film.

• 2:00:16Speaker 02

  He did.

• 2:00:16Sean Fennessey?

  And rightfully so. And can you recall the nominees that year?

• 2:00:20Speaker 02

  All right. So it's 20,

• 2:00:22Sean Fennessey?

  Occurring in 2013.

• 2:00:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Is it 2012 Oscars? No. Hmm. Uh, Bradley Cooper? For Silver Linings. Daniel Day-Lewis. Cause it was like, one of those things where it was like, we're not debating this.

• 2:00:34Sean Fennessey?

  This is a good lineup.

• 2:00:35Speaker 02

  Uh, I don't know. Give me a hint. Um, uh, no, cause like the other movies that year, it's like Life of Pi, Argo. The PTA film, of course, is, um, fuck, uh, it's the, the master. So Joaquin.

• 2:00:48Sean Fennessey?

  Joaquin.

• 2:00:49Speaker 02

  Uh, great performance.

• 2:00:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 2:00:51Speaker 02

  Bit of a ham sandwich, if you ask me, but still a great performance.

• 2:00:54Amanda Dobbins?

  That's what we like about him.

• 2:00:55Speaker 02

  Right. Um, what else?

• 2:00:58Sean Fennessey?

  Well, Hugh Jackman in Les Mis.

• 2:01:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Another film Sean has never seen.

• 2:01:01Sean Fennessey?

  I've not seen it.

• 2:01:02Speaker 02

  What have I done, sweet Jesus? What have I done? The thing about Hugh Jackman is I, I love him as a star, like, and that movie is stinking.

• 2:01:09Amanda Dobbins?

  That movie is so bad.

• 2:01:09Sean Fennessey?

  That's why I never went to see it.

• 2:01:11Speaker 02

  It was his first nom and you were kind of like, good job, buddy.

• 2:01:13Amanda Dobbins?

  You're gonna have to see it now for the Amanda Seyfried of it all.

• 2:01:17Speaker 02

  I know. Oh, she's all right in that movie.

• 2:01:18Amanda Dobbins?

  She's all right. But, and there were like a couple of moments in Ann Lee where they're like too close to the Tom Hooper, like, close up as she's singing, you know, and I'm just like, uh-oh, you don't want to get away from her.

• 2:01:28Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I've never seen any of her singing performances.

• 2:01:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:31Speaker 02

  That's so funny.

• 2:01:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, that's right. Oh, yeah, mom and dad, you'll have to do it too.

• 2:01:33Speaker 02

  And wait, is there a fifth?

• 2:01:34Sean Fennessey?

  Denzel Washington in Flight.

• 2:01:36Speaker 02

  Oh, pretty great performance. And one that, there, there was the briefest sort of like, should we just give Denzel another one?

• 2:01:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:01:42Speaker 02

  But, you know, this was the Lincoln win. I think it was the first Spielberg acting win ever.

• 2:01:47Sean Fennessey?

  That's crazy.

• 2:01:48Speaker 02

  Which is one of those like wild statistics, like an actor had never won for one of his movies. Um, and it was also, yeah, it was like, you know, twin powers unite, like he just hooked up with Spielberg to do an Abraham Lincoln movie. It sounds like fake.

• 2:02:01Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 2:02:01Speaker 02

  Right?

• 2:02:02Sean Fennessey?

  It sounds like something you hear about on the studio.

• 2:02:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:04Speaker 02

  Kind of rocks. And I feel like its reputation, uh, is good. Like, it's like, it's actually grown.

• 2:02:09Sean Fennessey?

  It was a hit. It was honored.

• 2:02:11Speaker 02

  It was a big hit.

• 2:02:11Sean Fennessey?

  But it is weirdly now reverse culty.

• 2:02:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:02:14Sean Fennessey?

  Where it's like, it's got like a lot of heads that really love it.

• 2:02:16Speaker 02

  You know what fucks?

• 2:02:16Amanda Dobbins?

  All the late period Spielberg.

• 2:02:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, same with Spielberg's buys.

• 2:02:19Sean Fennessey?

  Very true.

• 2:02:20Amanda Dobbins?

  And now it's not even getting really honored at the Oscars.

• 2:02:23Speaker 02

  True.

• 2:02:23Amanda Dobbins?

  They're just like, well, shrugged.

• 2:02:25Sean Fennessey?

  His late style is like, let's not, please stop ignoring this. Like, this is, nobody does this.

• 2:02:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:02:29Sean Fennessey?

  Um, okay, 2017 Phantom Thread, your favorite PTA movie and your favorite PTA movie?

• 2:02:33Amanda Dobbins?

  And my favorite PTA movie, yes. But, you know, like, I put one ballot too, so we can, you know, as time.

• 2:02:39Speaker 02

  Amanda, you got the same top two.

• 2:02:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, as time, as time goes on.

• 2:02:41Sean Fennessey?

  Blousers. Um, I mean, obviously a great film, uh, hilarious comedy about, about being married.

• 2:02:47Amanda Dobbins?

  And it was funny, and he finally can be funny.

• 2:02:50Speaker 02

  It was the whole thing going into this movie.

• 2:02:52Sean Fennessey?

  Funny by let by being the old British version of Daniel Day Lewis.

• 2:02:57Speaker 02

  Sheik, whoever invented that, we spanked in public like. But I remember like the trailers were a little misleading and were basically like it's about this fucking genius guy and tortured genius.

• 2:03:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, here we go again.

• 2:03:10Sean Fennessey?

  Is that though, like everything that it pitched itself as it is that.

• 2:03:14Speaker 02

  It's got all of that.

• 2:03:16Sean Fennessey?

  To view it that way, you can, and it's good, but the intent is obviously multi level.

• 2:03:22Speaker 02

  But I just remember they screened it at BAM. It was the last, there's always the last film you see before you vote at the New York Film Critics Circle. Like they sneak in, they're like, it's wet off the press, you know, off the, you know, printer, right? Like you're, we were gonna, you gotta get in front of this one before you vote. There's always something. And I went in, I remember not dreading it, but being kind of like, hmm.

• 2:03:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:42Speaker 02

  Why do you make this like dressmaker movie? And then like two minutes in, I was like, this is the funniest shit I've ever seen in my life. Like this, I can't believe I'm laughing so much. I'm having so much fun. And like, you know, immediately you get the tone. You're not like, am I weird for thinking this? But like when he's doing the big breakfast order, whatever, you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 2:04:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, no, no, no.

• 2:04:02Speaker 02

  This is what we're. Manville is cleaning out.

• 2:04:04Sean Fennessey?

  There's something very Cheshire Cat about the whole thing.

• 2:04:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I remember I was at the Arrow and it was the asparagus scene where like the whole room figured it out.

• 2:04:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:04:13Amanda Dobbins?

  And it was like, actually, and the, the laughs just like started rippling. Yeah.

• 2:04:20Amanda Dobbins?

  It's like the thing, he is really funny and he is being funny by playing that uptight, like DDL British character. But like, he knows he's being funny. He's just doing his version of comedy. That's the thing. Yeah, they just so.

• 2:04:36Speaker 02

  No, go, yeah, I mean.

• 2:04:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it's, it's, it's amazing. It's my, it's such a wonderful movie.

• 2:04:41Speaker 02

  It's just so interesting that this was the movie that broke him supposedly, right? Like that he had such a tough time with his character. Like, and he generated this character with PTA or whatever. And he was just like, yeah, it was just too much. And I'm like, that movie would energize me. Like, it's so wonderful and funny, you know?

• 2:04:58Sean Fennessey?

  But like, but he is, he's kind of throwing himself on the pyre a little bit with like, you know, him becoming sick in that, that critical stage of the movie. And then the, everything with the mother figure that is being generated. All that stuff is very weighty, you know? It's, it still is your old school Daniel Day.

• 2:05:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:16Sean Fennessey?

  You know, learns how to become a courtier. Like the, the, that whole thing is really intense, even though it's hilarious.

• 2:05:24Speaker 02

  The best.

• 2:05:25Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, so that's going in.

• 2:05:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, couturier.

• 2:05:27Sean Fennessey?

  Couturier, sorry.

• 2:05:27Amanda Dobbins?

  I was like, he's a courtier?

• 2:05:30Sean Fennessey?

  Twenty twenty five, Anemone, not going in.

• 2:05:33Amanda Dobbins?

  No, no, it's not.

• 2:05:35Speaker 02

  I'm glad he's back. I would like him to keep working.

• 2:05:37Amanda Dobbins?

  The poop speech is good, but.

• 2:05:38Speaker 02

  Poop speech is good. He looks good. He looks great.

• 2:05:40Sean Fennessey?

  Looks very, very, very healthy, very virile. Okay, here's what we have.

• 2:05:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:05:47Sean Fennessey?

  I think we have to make a nominally easy choice.

• 2:05:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:05:51Sean Fennessey?

  Aim Green already confirmed, My Left Foot, The Last of the Mohicans, The Age of Innocence, In the Name of the Father, Gangs of New York, There Will Be Blood, Lincoln and Phantom Throne. That's eight.

• 2:05:59Speaker 02

  We got eight already, right?

• 2:06:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, we got eight.

• 2:06:01Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, we have four yellows.

• 2:06:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:06:02Sean Fennessey?

  Remaining. My Beautiful Laundrette.

• 2:06:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:05Sean Fennessey?

  A Room with a View. The Unbearable Lightness of Being.

• 2:06:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Hmm.

• 2:06:08Sean Fennessey?

  And The Boxer.

• 2:06:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:06:10Sean Fennessey?

  Now, we've already got two Jim Sheridan movies, so I suggest we remove The Boxer.

• 2:06:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Agreed.

• 2:06:14Speaker 02

  I think that's an easy cut.

• 2:06:15Amanda Dobbins?

  No one's very enthusiastic about it.

• 2:06:17Speaker 02

  So it's basically, I think you, I, I'm gonna argue for My Beautiful Laundrette for sure.

• 2:06:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:22Speaker 02

  As an iconic early movie, as a breakout movie, as a well-remembered movie.

• 2:06:27Sean Fennessey?

  You know, I'm on board with that.

• 2:06:28Amanda Dobbins?

  One thousand percent.

• 2:06:28Speaker 02

  And so now we're between Lightness of Being and Room with a View.

• 2:06:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:32Speaker 02

  So it's kind of like the star role, but you know, not the best remembered versus the good, supporting, great, better movie, but.

• 2:06:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Supporting.

• 2:06:40Speaker 02

  Is he what's remembered for it?

• 2:06:43Sean Fennessey?

  I'm inclined to say the unbearable lightness of being one.

• 2:06:45Amanda Dobbins?

  We knew that about you.

• 2:06:46Sean Fennessey?

  This is a two hour and forty five minute historical epic about agony and lost love and lost power. And he's at the center of the, he's holding the movie.

• 2:06:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:57Sean Fennessey?

  Now, obviously, Benosha and Lino are wonderful in this movie.

• 2:07:00Amanda Dobbins?

  A Room with a View is shorter, but who's to say it's not about the same stuff?

• 2:07:05Sean Fennessey?

  True. I just mean his part in it. I mean, he's like, he's the third lead, he's like the fifth lead.

• 2:07:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, he's, he's less vital to Room with a View. I would pick Room with a View, but I don't really care.

• 2:07:18Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, I just like A Room with a View more, but we can.

• 2:07:21Sean Fennessey?

  But that's not what the Hall of Fame is.

• 2:07:23Speaker 02

  No, it's not.

• 2:07:24Sean Fennessey?

  The Hall of Fame is not the Hall of Like.

• 2:07:26Amanda Dobbins?

  You're not wrong.

• 2:07:27Sean Fennessey?

  The Hall of Fame is the Hall of Fame.

• 2:07:29Speaker 02

  Stars and Bars? No, okay, fine. Yeah.

• 2:07:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Fine, unbearable lightness of being. Fine.

• 2:07:32Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, thank you, guys.

• 2:07:33Speaker 02

  Czech doctor who fucks.

• 2:07:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:35Sean Fennessey?

  That's nice. The Czech doctor who fucks.

• 2:07:37Amanda Dobbins?

  You're sort of a Philistine for not understanding a Room with a View.

• 2:07:41Sean Fennessey?

  There's, no one ever said I don't understand it. I don't, just because I did not prostrate myself before it.

• 2:07:47Speaker 02

  What is your favorite Merchant Ivory? If you have one?

• 2:07:51Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I remember Wings of the Dove making a big impression on me as a kid.

• 2:07:55Speaker 02

  Great movie. Very sexy movie.

• 2:07:58Sean Fennessey?

  But yeah, I, um, I also enjoyed Jefferson in Paris.

• 2:08:03Speaker 02

  That one I don't remember very well.

• 2:08:04Sean Fennessey?

  That's Nolte as Thomas Jefferson.

• 2:08:06Speaker 02

  Thomas Jefferson.

• 2:08:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:08Speaker 02

  I'm in Paris.

• 2:08:09Sean Fennessey?

  What are the other canonical? There's a couple of major ones.

• 2:08:11Speaker 02

  Remains of the Day and Howard's End.

• 2:08:14Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, yeah. Those are both wonderful. Yeah.

• 2:08:15Amanda Dobbins?

  They are wonderful, though. I, and this is really disrespectful to Emma Thompson, I'm still more partial to the Howard's End remake.

• 2:08:23Speaker 02

  The Kenneth Laundergang one?

• 2:08:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, yeah.

• 2:08:25Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that's very good.

• 2:08:26Amanda Dobbins?

  And my wife, Haley Atwell.

• 2:08:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, that is, that was very well done.

• 2:08:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Is, is, is pretty legendary.

• 2:08:32Speaker 02

  Remains of the Day holds up really well because.

• 2:08:34Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that's probably the best one, right?

• 2:08:36Speaker 02

  The Nazi subplot in it is, hits right now. I recommend watching that movie.

• 2:08:40Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, but again, I haven't seen all that stuff between like seventy and eighty one.

• 2:08:45Amanda Dobbins?

  I saw The Divorce in the theaters.

• 2:08:47Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 2:08:48Amanda Dobbins?

  So, you know.

• 2:08:48Speaker 02

  I was there with my mom.

• 2:08:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:50Speaker 02

  That was the best. That movie is not that good.

• 2:08:52Amanda Dobbins?

  No, it's not.

• 2:08:53Sean Fennessey?

  Do you feel good about this Hall of Fame?

• 2:08:55Speaker 02

  I mean, I do. I think he should feel good.

• 2:08:58Amanda Dobbins?

  I think he does.

• 2:09:00Speaker 02

  I hope so. I hope he's happy. I hope he's happy.

• 2:09:04Sean Fennessey?

  I think he is.

• 2:09:05Speaker 02

  But I mean, like this episode to me was just gonna be a more fun way to talk about his career. I didn't think there was gonna be much drama about the greens.

• 2:09:14Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, there's not and there wasn't. And that's okay. These are not about drama. We're building something.

• 2:09:20Speaker 02

  Well, it's the same with my drafting strategy. There was no antagonistic behavior for me.

• 2:09:24Sean Fennessey?

  You were very kind. You had the turn.

• 2:09:26Speaker 02

  I did have the turn.

• 2:09:27Sean Fennessey?

  Which is a nice place to be.

• 2:09:29Speaker 02

  I was where I wanted to be. That was where I wanted to be. I was very happy. I was very, I really did not want first pick.

• 2:09:34Amanda Dobbins?

  No, it was hard with that many people.

• 2:09:36Speaker 02

  How are that many people in with a category that broad?

• 2:09:38Sean Fennessey?

  Chris made a choice.

• 2:09:42Amanda Dobbins?

  But that's why he's Chris.

• 2:09:43Speaker 02

  It was great.

• 2:09:44Amanda Dobbins?

  That's why he's there. Really good stuff.

• 2:09:47Sean Fennessey?

  Thanks, Davidson.

• 2:09:48Speaker 02

  Of course. Thank you for having me. I'm glad you guys put up with me. It's really, I'm a big fan of the show and it's really nice to be on it.

• 2:09:53Sean Fennessey?

  Well, we love you. We love Blank Check and we hopefully, well, maybe we'll appear on Blank Check at some point in the future.

• 2:10:00Speaker 02

  2026, guys. Look out.

• 2:10:02Sean Fennessey?

  Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. Thanks to Amanda, of course. Next week, we return with number nine in our 25 for 25 countdown. It's a good film.

• 2:10:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Don't remember what it is, but I'm excited to watch it again.

• 2:10:15Sean Fennessey?

  We'll see you then.

• 2:10:34Speaker 06

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• 2:11:02Speaker 04

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