The Psychic Who Hunted U.S. Government Targets With Her Mind & How You Can Train Your Mind For ESP And Remote Viewing

Renowned U. S. Army remote viewer and psychic spy Angela Ford reveals her incredible journey from childhood out-of-body experiences and prophetic dreams to becoming a top operative in Project Stargate, the government’s classified psychic espionage program run by the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA). In this mind-opening conversation, Angela Ford shares how she used automatic writing, extrasensory perception (ESP), and spirit guide communication to track high-value targets. She states that psychic intelligence can be just as powerful as AI in national defense. She recounts encounters with dark entities, explains how she performs psychic readings on babies and animals, and even reveals a childhood UFO sighting that changed her life. Angela also offers a live aura reading for Mayim and Jonathan, and breaks down how meditation and training your subconscious mind can unlock your own hidden psychic gifts. Whether you're curious about remote viewing, psychic warfare, or the role of consciousness studies in defense strategy, this episode will challenge everything you thought you knew. Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/ BialikBreakdown.com https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/ YouTube.com/mayimbialik https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTOocPnDh2YQZZwh86K2OxA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  I could see myself leaving my body. I would look down and I would be laying on the bed and then I would just fly. I could walk through doors, I could go through windows. I would go outside, I like to be up in the trees. I could see beings that maybe don't live on earth. I was getting a lot of information on my deceased relatives.

• 0:21Mayim Bialik?

  At what point did you reveal to the government that you have psychic abilities that allow you to leave your body?

• 0:30Speaker 00

  The Defense Intelligence Agency, the sister of the CIA, were looking for people that had these abilities. The remote viewers, the psychics. I got approached to be part of the project. It was highly classified.

• 0:45Mayim Bialik?

  A lot of people don't know this or might find it really unbelievable that the government was using these techniques and also teaching these techniques.

• 0:54Speaker 00

  Intelligence is nothing more than collecting information. People in the intelligence field, they just love information. They don't care how you get it.

• 1:10Speaker 02

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• 1:41Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Iain Viallick.

• 1:42Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 1:43Mayim Bialik?

  Welcome to our breakdown.

• 1:48Mayim Bialik?

  Well, folks, it's taken a lot of episodes, but we have done it. We have arrived at an episode that is, I would, I would say, the most validating and legitimate example of the understanding of extrasensory perception. Why do I, why do I say that? Because we're talking to someone who worked for the intelligence community, for the government and for the military for over 32 years. And for nine of those years, she was employed in a program of remote viewing. That's right, looking at things in your...

• 2:29Mayim Bialik?

  Mind that you are not standing in front of.

• 2:33Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, I don't even like, we usually ask questions at the beginning of an episode. Like, what if we were about to blow your mind? What if we were about to have you hear cases that were solved from a woman being placed in a room with a government supervisor saying to her, "Where is this criminal?" And her producing an answer that found a criminal that had been missing for a decade. It's kind of what is going to happen today.

• 3:04Jonathan Cohen?

  We talk a lot about extrasensory ability. From Thomas Campbell episode to Jim Tucker, who's studied the evidence, scientific evidence of past lives, to Deepak Chopra, who talks about the hardest problems in science and how we're developing our understanding of what the universe is made of. Here, what we're doing is we're exploring the fact that we potentially have more than five senses and that this isn't an esoteric change your consciousness through drugs. This is, this information is available outside of our current five senses, and it can be accessed and applied in very practical ways.

• 3:46Mayim Bialik?

  We should also mention that Angela is a person who can channel. And like Suzanne Geismann, like Teresa Caputo, she has medium capabilities. However, that is not why she was originally hired to work in defense. And that's, I think, possibly the most fascinating aspect of this story. Many people were employed alongside her, who were not channels and not mediums, but who were being instructed by the military to be able to effectively be spies. She actually was inducted into the National Security Agency's Spy Museum just last year.

• 4:27Mayim Bialik?

  And she's got stories to tell that are truly paradigm shifting.

• 4:34Jonathan Cohen?

  She was a part of Stargate, which is the psychic phenomenon program. And I think one of the, you know, hardest hitting parts of this for you, Mayim, was the fact that there are these government programs that many people on the internet know about, but a lot of people in the public sphere just have no concept that there are these programs that are funded by Congress that are using people with extrasensory abilities in this way.

• 4:58Mayim Bialik?

  And in addition, the government is also training people to utilize extrasensory perception, which apparently is available to more of us than we even realized. And Angela's going to talk about that. She teaches at the Monroe Institute, which we've talked about in our episode with Thomas Campbell. And she works with Dr. Ed May, the Laboratories of Fundamental Research in Mountain View, California. So she has retired from her work officially in intelligence, but she does many, many other things and is a really, really fascinating woman. And it's, let's just welcome Angela Ford to the Breakdown.

• 5:31Speaker 05

  Break it down.

• 5:34Speaker 00

  It's nice to be here. Thank you for the opportunity.

• 5:37Mayim Bialik?

  It's very rare that Valerie sends research on the person we're going to speak to. And my response is, what is happening here? Because you have an unbelievable story. Your life has had an unbelievable trajectory, and it's taken you to some pretty incredible places that honestly will make most people challenge what they believe about what is true and what the human experience is. So thank you for being here to fill us in on all that.

• 6:07Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 6:09Mayim Bialik?

  We're going to start with, I want to start really, really basic. When did you first know that you had abilities that were outside of the realm of what other people were experiencing?

• 6:25Speaker 00

  I was very young. I was very young. It was before I was in school, but I used to have a lot of out-of-body experiences. Where as a child, I mean, I could leave my body and I could fly around. Now, don't ask me how I knew this, but I knew that you just don't talk about it. At some level, you know, but I remember doing a lot of out-of-body experience, I guess, experiences. Now, whenever I got to be around five or six years old, I used to have a lot of dreams. And actually, I think they were perfect, I think they were...

• 7:08Speaker 00

  I think they were of the future because I would wake up and I would tell my mother that I would have these dreams and she would listen to me and sometimes she would write them down and she took them very serious. So she wasn't telling me, a lot of times when young people have psychic experiences or psychic dreams, they're told like, oh, don't talk like that or be quiet or like, you know, they say, hey, I saw grandma yesterday and she died. You know, they're told to be quiet. So my mother never, she just listened. So I think that that kind of, um, so that all happened at a very, very early age. Now

• 7:46Speaker 00

  I know, um, so as I got older and as you go in school and as you become more social and as you learn things, I guess, um, it, the abilities weren't there so much, but I always was, I was very curious. I was always very curious and I would go to fortune tellers or I would read, I can remember, I read a book when I was a senior in high school and it was about a man who did, he, he would fly in his airplane. He was doing, um, Arctic exploration and he always felt that if, if he wrecked the plane or if he lost all communications,

• 8:27Speaker 00

  he would do ESP tests with the person on the ground so that if something were to happen to him, he could send ESP messages. Well, um, he never got into any trouble, but they did do the ESP experiences. So he would come back from his flights and then he would talk about, um, the guy would say, well, I felt like you were here at this point and this is what you were going through or this is what you, so they could collaborate to see if, if it was working. Well, I had read this book and years later, when I started to work for the government, one of my bosses or one of my He was one of the guys that, one of the gentlemen that knew the pilot.

• 9:10Speaker 00

  He knew the explorer and knew the people that were conducting the experiments. So I thought that was interesting, that I had read about this man when I was a senior in high school and then years later I come to know was one of the people in on that. So I think I always had the interest. I always had the interest.

• 9:27Mayim Bialik?

  Now, I want you to explain to us, because a lot of kids think a lot of fun things. A lot of kids have an active imagination, you know, especially people who, who end up being artists or, you know, some sort of clairvoyant, you know, sometimes they have a very active imagination. Can you describe what it means that you had out of body experiences? Do you mean you had dissociative episodes or were you literally not in your body?

• 9:54Speaker 00

  No, I could see myself leaving my body. I could, I left my body and I would look down and I would be laying on the bed and then I would just fly and I could walk through doors. I could go through windows and I would just go fly.

• 10:07Jonathan Cohen?

  Where would you go?

• 10:09Speaker 00

  I would go outside. I like to be up in the trees. One time I went to the sun. I felt like I went to the sun. One time I felt like I could see more like beings that maybe don't live on earth. A lot of communication that way. One time I felt that I was a place where there was a lot of chatter, chatter, chatter. So, and then one time I felt like I was with just a beautiful woman who just admitted love.

• 10:36Mayim Bialik?

  I'm going to ask a very delicate question and I'm asking it with the utmost respect. Did you ever wonder if maybe like you were not well? Or were you always clear that this was a?

• 10:49Speaker 00

  I was very clear. I had a lot of clarity and at some level I knew at a very young age not to talk about it.

• 11:00Mayim Bialik?

  You've talked about your mother having some sort of abilities. When did you learn about that? And do you think that's part of why you have this access?

• 11:13Speaker 00

  Oh, sure. Now, what happened with my mother was my mother was always interested in the subject. And I can remember as a child growing up, she had a lot of Edgar Cayce material. She had a lot of Gene Dixon. So my mother, my mother bought an encyclopedia of ESP, 20 books, all on ESP. They are, I went home to see my brothers. That encyclopedia is still in that bookcase. So you can pick up that book and it talks about, you know, people dying and life on the other side. You can pick it up and read about channeling. But I guess, so anyway, my mother always had the interest.

• 11:58Speaker 00

  And actually, as a teenager, it was kind of embarrassing because she would talk about reincarnation and she liked to listen to country western music. So as a teenager, I mean, it's not cool. So she kind of embarrassed me a little bit. However, I was, I was born and raised in Pennsylvania. I have a political science degree and I came down to Washington DC to start working for the FBI. Now, I was waiting for my clearance. They do an investigate, they do a clearance on you to make sure that, you know, I don't have a criminal record. But as I was waiting to, for my clearance, so I could come work for the FBI,

• 12:42Speaker 00

  there was a night class at the university. It was an ESP class and there was a chemistry professor that was very psychic and he would teach these ESP classes at night. It was just like night classes, you know, where you pay $35 and you go for six weeks. Well, I attended this guy's class, but I could only stay for one or two weeks because I got, I received a nighttime job. So I had to quit so I could make the money so I could come down to Washington. So I quit. Well, a few years later, as I, well, actually quite a few years later. My mother called me up one, it was in September, it was at the end of summer, I was living in Virginia, and my mother said, you know, I just, what can, what can I do?

• 13:27Speaker 00

  I want to take a class, I want to do something, and her and her friends always would do something. So I said, you should take that ESP class by Dr. Bordas, and she said, I think I will. So she did. Well, what we've come to find out was that my mother was very psychic, she could take objects, like a ring or a watch, it's called psychometry, and she could take things, and she could actually read a person, like who owned the ring and what they were like, and somebody brought her something, and she could tell the person's husband was in World War II. So she had this ability.

• 14:04Speaker 00

  Well, so, at that time, my, no, I was 29 or 30 years old, and my father had passed, and I was having a very difficult time with my father's death. So my mother sent me this, she sent me a book, and it was called A World Beyond by Ruth Montgomery, and she said, read this book, you will understand your father's death, you'll come to understanding your father's death. Well, in it, Ruth Montgomery channels, she talked about life on the other side, she talked about real-

• 14:38Mayim Bialik?

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• 16:04Mayim Bialik?

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• 16:08Speaker 00

  Incarnation. And I resonated with that book. It was something that I felt healed my heart, helped heal me from my father's death. And so after that, I started to channel. I said, well, you know, I'm gonna try this channeling, what she did. So I started to channel. And I was working for Army Intelligence at the time. And they had a program where they were bringing in people that they felt had these abilities. You know, you could go work as a psychic for this, for Army Intelligence. And that's a whole other story.

• 16:42Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, Angela, you're acting like this is a normal thing, that you can work as a psychic for Army Intelligence.

• 16:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know, I know. I mean, how I even got to Army, how I got to the FBI, to Army Intelligence, I wasn't making money at the FBI. The pay was lousy. And I wanted to be an FBI agent. I didn't have the eyesight, so I was working with a woman who left.

• 17:05Mayim Bialik?

  You didn't have the eyesight. You could see into other portals of the universe and time. Who needs eyeballs?

• 17:11Speaker 00

  I know, I know. I still have trouble. So my friend left, and she called me up. And she said, come over to Army Intelligence. They're looking for political science degrees, and you get a raise for two years, and you're gonna make much more money than what you're making now. So I applied. And, and I was with the military, and I, my family's not military. I went to college during the 70s, when people were protesting Vietnam. I mean, it was very... It was a culture I wasn't used to. So I wasn't really uncomfortable. I wasn't real comfortable with it, but I did it. I did it. And every time I went to quit or do something else, it just something would happen that would make me stay.

• 17:53Speaker 00

  When I was 29 or 30, I had heard about this, the psychic program.

• 17:59Mayim Bialik?

  You had these experiences as a child. You intuitively knew like that you had some sort of like ability or access, but you didn't talk about it. And it somewhat was set aside, it sounds like. And, and then, and then you just independently of all this, you went and got a poli sci degree from a lovely university. And then you went to work for the government. What did you think you were going to be doing? Nothing to do with your special abilities?

• 18:28Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no. I wanted to be an FBI agent, but I didn't have the-

• 18:31Mayim Bialik?

  Just a regular FBI agent, not one who sees into the universe.

• 18:34Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Oh, no, no. It was just a regular government job, but I didn't have the eyesight. But with Army Intelligence, you're talking diplomacy. You know, how do you collect, how do you collect intelligence? I was an analyst. They always made me an analyst because political science was broad. You know, a lot of history, a lot of diplomacy, international law. How do you get along with other countries? What's going on in other countries that we need to, the United States needs to know about?

• 19:07Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, so at what point did you reveal to the government that you have psychic abilities that allow you to leave your body?

• 19:17Speaker 00

  Okay, this is what happened. When I went to the US Army Military Intelligence, they put me on a two, three, it was a three-year internship. And during that internship, I, I visited all the intelligence communities in Washington. I took classes at the different agencies. And what I was taught was who the intelligence organizations were, what their missions were. And then, and then at the end of that three years, they gave me a job. Well, I did Central American affairs because at that time it was-

• 19:57Speaker 00

  And I'm, and I'm female, I'm not military, and I'm not a military female. So I did not get the high visibility accounts like missiles in the Soviet Union or tanks in China. I got good old Central America. Well, little did people know during that time in the late 1980s, that it was heated up. You had Noriega in Panama, you had Sandinistas in Nicaragua, you had the insurgencies in El Salvador, in Honduras. And then, when President Bush, the first President Bush came along, he allowed the military to partake in drug interdiction. So I would, so it was a hotbed. It was.

• 20:41Mayim Bialik?

  So once they brought the drugs in, he had to take them out.

• 20:46Speaker 00

  So it was interesting. It was an interesting, I think it was more exciting and more interesting than I think people would imagine that it would have been. But anyway, that's what I did. Well, what happened was, I had learned through, I had learned that,

• 21:06Speaker 00

  that there was, well, that there was this program that, that the army had with these, they were looking for people that had these abilities. And it just shocked me because I didn't know. And apparently, this program, it was a special access program. It was highly classified. And the reason I did not know about it was because it was never spoke, it was never talked about. But there was a general, every so often, you change, there was a general that came into Army Intelligence, and he became the, the, the director or the commander of US Army in Intelligence. And every three to four years, these generals rotate.

• 21:52Speaker 00

  So this general came in, and his name was Albert Stubblebine. Now, General Stubblebine believed in, he was looking, he was very open about being psychic because he was believed.

• 22:08Speaker 00

  He wanted soldiers to use their, he was a, he was a spoon bender. Have you ever heard of Yuri Geller?

• 22:13Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, yeah.

• 22:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, just spoon, he was a spoon bender. And so he would hold, you know, he'd be in his office and everybody would be sitting around bending spoons. And I don't know if you've ever heard, saw the movie Men Who Stare at Goats, but they do have a general that like walks through walls. And they, and that would have been General Stubblebine. And I think there was a man that played General Stubblebine's right-hand man, and that would have been Colonel Alexander. So, yes, that movie portrayed. So I did not, so apparently this General Stubblebine seemed to be more open about looking for people who had these abilities.

• 22:58Speaker 00

  And on Friday evenings, he would take busloads of people down to the Monroe Institute down in Faber, Virginia, which is a, Bob Monroe teaches people how to go out of body. So, so he would take, you would go down on a Friday night and come back on a Sunday evening. And he opened this up to his military. So I, so the first time I got on the list, there was a woman, you go, you would go down to personnel and I said, I want to go to Monroe.

• 23:29Mayim Bialik?

  So, wait, I'm sorry, I want to just jump in. Did you tell anyone, like, I think I have these powers? Or did you not even relate it to what you had experienced as a child?

• 23:38Speaker 00

  Oh, no, I just want, whoever had the interest could go. I didn't, I didn't say anything. I just went down. It went like, if you're interested, if you think you want this, go sign up. You can go to Monroe.

• 23:49Mayim Bialik?

  Got it.

• 23:49Speaker 00

  So I didn't say anything. So I'd go see the woman and she'd put my name on the list. So the first time she called me up and she said, we took your name off the list because some Colonel's flying in from Hawaii to go. And so, so I was over, so in other words, I couldn't go because some high-ranking official.

• 24:10Speaker 00

  Took my, okay, so then it happened the second time I was supposed to go. And she said, you've been canceled again. And um, I said, okay, so then the third time my name was on the list. And she said, okay, she said, um. She said, this isn't fair. She says, I will go in and I will fight. I will fight. I think you should, I said, okay, go ahead or whatever, but I don't know what happened. I didn't go that third time. So I never did make it to Monroe. I never made it. Now, at that point, when I knew I had the abilities and I started to channel. I knew people that had access to the general. So I said, I'd like to meet him. I'd like to be, I would, I'd channel. I would like to go be.

• 24:54Speaker 00

  I don't know if I asked to be in the program, but I said, I have these abilities. You know, maybe he'd be interested in talking to me, or what do you think? And they were like, oh, yeah, sure. He's, you know, that's, he's looking for people like you. Um, so I went and met him. Well, it was nineteen eighty-four. And he was retiring. Um, because he was losing support from the Joint Chief of Staff. And he said, I'll retire. I can go out and work on this. I can have my own company and do this. So that was nineteen eighty-four, and I thought, well, there, I'm not going to get into the program because they shut. They would have shut down the uh, remote viewers. They were working out at Fort Meade.

• 25:36Speaker 00

  Um, in a struck, in a pre-World War One structure. So I thought, well, that's it. I'm not going to go into the psychic program. And this is what happened, which I did not find out until years later. In nineteen eighty-four, General Stubblebine retired. And people that were working as remote viewers. Were at Fort Meade, Maryland. And they weren't doing anything. They were sitting around waiting for orders. I guess when they closed down a program, they would put you another job. So you had military people. Waiting to get orders to see what their next assignment would be. Then you had civilians, and they would have probably put them into the workforce, maybe it, um.

• 26:22Speaker 00

  You know, but they would have put him back into the workforce for Army Intelligence. So you had a handful of people in nineteen eighty-four, kind of sitting around saying, okay, where are we gonna go? What are we gonna do? Well, there was a man by the name of Dr. Jack Verona, who worked for the Defense Intelligence Agency, which the Defense Intelligence Agency is like the sister of the CIA. The only thing they deal with, defense intelligence, and the CIA deals with more general intelligence. So Dr. Verona, he had, he had an interest in, in, uh, in psychickness, because he was

• 27:04Speaker 00

  getting his doctorate's degree down at Nor-, at Duke University in North Carolina. He was dating a woman who eventually became his wife, and his future mother-in-law was working for a husband-and-wife parapsychology team named Ryan and Rhine, and they were doing psychic research at Duke University. Well, Dr. Verona met his girlfriend, met his mu-, future mother-in-law, and he got involved with this ESP stuff. So when he graduated with his doctorate's degree, he first went to CIA as a senior scientist, and he gave a small contract to Stanford Research Institute to find out

• 27:47Speaker 00

  what they were doing in, in this psychic research. And so, um, there were two scientists, Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ. They coined the word remote viewing, which is ESP, and they got the word because they were looking at Chinese children were, uh, had clairvoyant abilities. And whenever the, whenever it was interpreted from China to English, what the Chinese children were doing, it was coming out like, "I remotely view," or "I view remotely." And that's how you came up with the word remote viewing. So Dr. Verona, in nineteen eighty-four, went to Congress and said, "Don't leave the people

• 28:32Speaker 00

  there, leave the building there." He said, he said, um- Take the remote viewers, take the psychics and transfer them from Army Intelligence into his agency. So they took the people and they took, um, and now these people no longer worked for Army Intelligence. They were now employees of the Defense Intelligence Agency, which probably took nineteen, probably took a year. Cause you, they had to go to Congress and they had to write a new language. And I think Al Gore wrote the language for the, um, for the program. So in nineteen, by nineteen eighty-six, that program was reinstated. It wasn't lost.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  It went from one agency to another. The name had to change. So they went through all of the administrative stuff. And then in January nineteen eighty-six, I got approached. If I, I got approached to be part of the project.

• 29:32Mayim Bialik?

  So I just want to be clear here in my understanding. So the government has no problem leaning into people who have extrasensory perception and in many cases are able to view things in, in places where their body is not. And this was used as a legitimate technique that not only were they recruiting people who had these abilities or claimed to, this was a program that they believed you could teach people how to have these abilities. Is that right?

• 30:08Speaker 00

  This program was sanctioned. It, well, first of all, the CIA was doing a lot of this back in the sixties and seventies, but they were doing, um, they were you, I guess they were giving what LSD to people or whatever. They, they'd have to stop. The CIA stopped them. They said, you know, you know, you got people falling out of window, jumping out of windows.

• 30:29Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah. The Wormwood, the Wormwood series, uh, fictional, uh, was a, was a, um, an accounting of that, that, um, particular scientist. Yeah.

• 30:38Speaker 00

  So what happened was, is that we had Dr. Verona and some, we, there was a, there was a doctor, there was a genetic doctor. He was a general of the Air Force's Medical Intelligence Command. Some people went to Congress and say, look, we really want to get this going again. And Congress said, we're going to give you a program, but there's going to be human use. You're going to have human use guidelines. You cannot touch their brain. You cannot touch them. You cannot give them any drugs. We had oversight by lawyers at the Pentagon. So we were very protected. We were very protected. There were laws on what they could not and what they could do to us.

• 31:21Mayim Bialik?

  Angela, you know, you know, a lot of people either don't, don't know this or might find it really unbelievable that the government was using these techniques and also teaching these techniques. Like, I mean, you're very, you're very casual about it because you lived it. But for many of us, like, I grew up believing, you know, I was raised by liberal parents. I was, you know, raised like that the government sends people to countries to kill people that we don't know. And the government does a lot of bureaucratic stuff and it makes rules and it is not nice to black people. You know, like, I was raised with this structure of a government. Nowhere in my education about what the government does, I knew they spied. Like, I knew there were spies. But no, this is like a very different level, Angela. You're very comfortable with it and I'm like, my jaw is on the floor.

• 32:06Speaker 00

  Well, you know, when you get involved with intelligence, intelligence is nothing more than collecting information. It's nothing, and people in the intelligence field, they just love information. They just, they don't care how you get it.

• 32:26Mayim Bialik?

  If you're living in a materialist world, which most people are, it, it would never occur to me like, oh, I want information so badly. I'm going to send people out of their bodies into another realm of existence to get the information I need so I can do all the evil things I do as a government. That wouldn't occur to me because I didn't know that it's real.

• 32:47Speaker 00

  Oh, I know, I, I know, I know. And believe me, believe me, it upset a lot of people. I mean, it took a lot of fighting.

• 32:54Mayim Bialik?

  It's still upsetting people, Angela.

• 32:57Speaker 00

  Well, the thing is, is that if people, if this, okay. It was hard. I mean, it was a hard sell. I mean, these people would go to the government and then ask for money. And of course, you had congresspeople that were totally against it. And if this type of work is against a person's belief system, they're not going to believe it no matter what happens. You can get, you know, we would think, give them the results, give them, you know, hey, look what we did. Look what, yeah, we found this hostage or, you know, we were able to do that. They don't care. It's against their syst-, it's against their belief system. Now, we had people that were, that fully supported us. But it was a fight. I mean, it was a battle

• 33:41Speaker 00

  to keep us alive. And I think we had a IG, and they called it Inspector General's IG inspection. They tried to close us down one time. So there were battles. But we had people smart enough that we had people in the system that was smart enough to keep us, they were, they were political savvy. They knew what they were doing. They knew how to keep us alive. I think the, the general, I think the general, the genetic doctor, I think he retired and he knew how to put money in the system for the next 10 years to keep the research going. So you had people with know-how.

• 34:20Mayim Bialik?

  I'm, I'm, I'm out of my mind for Angela. I need to move in with her to fully obtain all the information that I need about what's in her head.

• 34:28Jonathan Cohen?

  I think we should send you to psychic school. We should sign you up.

• 34:31Mayim Bialik?

  Well, apparently, it's something that you can learn. The government knew that. I can't even, like, meditate for five minutes and have my brain quiet down, but I can be taught to do this. Well, we'll get to that. Sorry. Go ahead, Jonathan.

• 34:42Jonathan Cohen?

  I think we should take a second and explore the, the theory that's at play here that goes against some people's materialist beliefs, right? Like, let's just talk theoretically for a minute about what's happening, because I think where the shock comes from, that the government was funding and utilizing this, goes to a different worldview, right? If you believe that people don't have extrasensory abilities and we're basically just biologic machines, and that consciousness isn't separate from our brains, and that we can't travel

• 35:24Jonathan Cohen?

  Throughout space and time and get information, then it's very hard to understand what we're talking about. Let's start with what is ESP as a starting point? And let's talk about what does it mean to gather information? How is that possible? I have my answer, but let's do Angela's answer first.

• 35:43Speaker 00

  I think ESP is just knowing things, having information that are beyond the five, that you're receiving information or you're knowing things that are beyond the five senses. You can't taste it, you can't see it, you can't smell it. And that's what I think it is. I do think that there's ways that you can. Now, a lot of times I recommend the book, The Silver Mind Control. And I tell people that that book, it's, you don't have to meditate for 10 minutes. It's just, it's just you kind of go down and you meditate. You put yourself in a little meditative state.

• 36:23Speaker 00

  And if, okay, suppose, suppose you want to know, like, you know, I wonder what my day is going to be like today. So you kind of go down and you relax. And then you kind of, in your mind's eye, you turn on the television. So then you see yourself and you see yourself going through the day. And then when you're done, you just turn the television off. So a lot of it is visualization. And this is what the government did. They did a lot of visualization techniques.

• 36:51Jonathan Cohen?

  Correct me if I'm wrong here, Angela, but the practice of turning that television on and practicing the visualization, at first you may be making it up, but the more you practice it, what you're doing is you're opening up a portal to non-local information to be presented to you. And the more you practice it, the more likely it is that you're going to get things that are relevant to your experience and that will actually potentially happen.

• 37:17Speaker 00

  Maybe so, but you're training the subconscious. This is what happens when you train somebody in remote viewing or to be psychic. You're telling the subconscious that it's gonna do something different for you. Now, when you take people in and you give them visualization techniques and they're gonna go down and they're gonna access and describe that picture in the envelope, people will do really good. Because, you know, they'll kinda go down and they'll say, "Oh, I see a tree. Oh, I see a house." And they're gonna give you something and then you're gonna show them the picture and everybody's gonna be happy and everybody thinks they can do this. Then all of a sudden, the subconscious comes in and says,

• 38:00Speaker 00

  "Hey, you're teaching me something new that I'm not used to and I don't like it and I'm not gonna do it." So then what happens is, people go, they have a downward turn where they can't remote view and then what happens is, is you have to keep working it and then the subconscious will come back and start working for you. But it's the subconscious.

• 38:26Mayim Bialik?

  I think if you had me look in an envelope, I don't, I mean, you're saying that I could be trained to drop into this place that would allow, so I'm sorry. I want you to walk me through it, though. So you're saying that, that envelope, let's say, a closed envelope with a picture in it. You're saying, and I'm trying to make this make sense, like, I want this to work. You're saying that that exists in the universe as, you know, binary code, right? It exists as zeros and ones that I can access somehow without my eyeballs or my occipital lobe?

• 39:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, now, what the scientists have shown, what the scientists have proved, that there are some pictures, which we call targets, there are some pictures that are very conducive to remote viewing. Now, if I want you to do a remote viewing of a picture in an envelope, you're gonna be the psychic. And what we found out is, we want you to be successful. So what we're gonna do is, we're gonna put you in a quiet room, maybe semi-dark or dark, so you can relax. Then what we're gonna do is we're gonna make sure that that picture is something that

• 39:46Speaker 00

  your subconscious can latch on to. Now, what they found is shapes. They like to do pyramids because pyramids is a triangle. They like pictures of Stonehenge or the Kentucky Derby because they have circles. And they found, or they like to do the Washington Monument because it's a peak. It's like a mountain. So what you do is you start people on, um, you start people on these targets that are very conducive for remote viewing. And that's what the scientists at SRI, at Stanford Research Institute, studied. What makes a good, you know, how can we train people?

• 40:28Speaker 00

  And it, the mind, the subconscious loves drawings and symbols. So if that's how the subconscious is gonna get you, give you information, then that's what we're gonna train the subconscious to do.

• 40:41Mayim Bialik?

  You are now in an environment where the, the abilities that came to you naturally as a child, even if you didn't connect it that way, the abilities that came naturally to you as a child are now being channeled in order to gain information about people, places, and things that are not in your percinium. Like they're not in front of you. And this is like a legitimate thing that you're all doing while working for the government.

• 41:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, we write up reports and we write up formal reports and send them to headquarters.

• 41:22Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, so I want you to give us what, what is obviously an unbelievable example of what happened in 1989. So you were charged with trying to locate, um...

• 41:42Mayim Bialik?

  Charles Jordan. What is it like to get an assignment?

• 41:48Mayim Bialik?

  From your superiors to try and find a person like, do you get like a file with a picture?

• 41:56Speaker 00

  Oh, no, no, no, we don't get any, you don't get anything. You don't get anything because if you get something that's like cheating. You can't give, you can't.

• 42:03Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, I wouldn't want you cheating while you're remote viewing like I want the real thing.

• 42:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's why we had oversight.

• 42:09Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, so how are you, so you are, how did you come to find?

• 42:16Mayim Bialik?

  Charles Jordan?

• 42:17Speaker 00

  Okay, my boss took me into the, um, okay, this is the backstory. Charles Jordan was on the 10 most wanted list and he was on that TV program, the 10 most wanted. So this would have been considered an unclassified case. So my boss took me into the, into the, we, we worked in one room and then we went to, um, we worked in one room and then we went to another building to work.

• 42:45Mayim Bialik?

  You mean to, to.

• 42:47Speaker 00

  Remote, to remote view, there was another building. So my boss took me into the other building. He says, we have an operation. So my boss said, he said, where is Charles Jordan?

• 42:59Mayim Bialik?

  That's it. Where's Charles Jordan?

• 43:01Speaker 00

  Jordan. Okay, now also.

• 43:03Mayim Bialik?

  Fuck if I know.

• 43:07Speaker 00

  So I looked at him. Now, I'm also a channelist. So not only do I, there's other ways that I work because I'm a natural psychic. See, they didn't, see, I'm a natural psychic. So I'm not, things can come to me without the norm, without the training. So that's a whole other story.

• 43:26Mayim Bialik?

  When did you, did you tell the military this? Did you say, oh, by the way, I channel?

• 43:32Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:32Mayim Bialik?

  How'd that go over? What?

• 43:34Speaker 00

  Oh, they were military men. They said, you can't do that. That's not the right way. They said, "You can't do that. That's not the right way. In here, we teach you the right way to become psychic."

• 43:44Mayim Bialik?

  What is happening? Wow.

• 43:47Speaker 00

  So I said, "Is that right?" So I, so I said, "Okay, fine," because I, believe me, I worked for the military. I was a female civilian. I had, I had younger females come in wearing the military uniform and would get more respect than me that would, that didn't know any, I mean, before they even knew their accounts. I was used to this. So they said, "Well, you have a bad habit with your channeling because I, because things come to me. I do automatic writing." And, and they said, "So you can't do that." So I said, "Okay, I won't do that." So I just did what they wanted me to do. So after a year and a half,

• 44:29Speaker 00

  the management left. The guy, the man who said I had a bad habit left. Everybody, everybody left. So we got a new guy that came in and this guy, this, my boss Fern, he, he's, he was part of the program in the early years. And he said, "I really don't care how people get information." He said, "I know that Stanford put out a protocol. It was called coordinate remote viewing." And he said, "That's fine." He said, "But, you know, I don't care, I don't really care how you, how, what people do to get information." And then there was a scientist that they brought in at Stanford Research Institute called Dr. May.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  And Ed May said, "I don't care, I don't care if a psychic stands on their head, I, if, to give me the information." So they were real liberal about the information. So I said, "Fine, I'll do my channeling." So they said, "Okay, you can do your channeling." So it's written, so they said, "Where's Charles Jordan?" So I said, "Charles Jordan is in low, L O W E L L, Wyoming."

• 45:36Mayim Bialik?

  What did you do to get that information? Talk us through what you do. Like you close your eyes, you spin in a circle.

• 45:42Speaker 00

  I looked at him and I put my pen on the paper and I wrote out low, L O W.

• 45:48Mayim Bialik?

  Just like that?

• 45:49Speaker 00

  Just like that. Just like that. It came like that. It just came. Now.

• 45:55Speaker 00

  My boss looked at me, Fern, and he was born in Lowell, Massachusetts. And he said, Angela, do you mean Lowell, Massachusetts? And I said, no, because at that point, I was getting the feeling that you get sensations, you get feelings.

• 46:11Mayim Bialik?

  What was the sensation? What's the sensation?

• 46:13Speaker 00

  It was the West. I said, no, it's, it's, it's the West. I'm getting like, you know, the cowboy, whenever you were getting, I'm getting like cowboys, feelings, Indians, you know, cowboys and Indians.

• 46:25Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:26Speaker 00

  And that's not Massachusetts.

• 46:27Mayim Bialik?

  No, ma'am.

• 46:28Speaker 00

  That's, that's Wyoming. And Jeannie, the secretary, she always kind of knew that, you know, she, Jeannie's like, she said Wyoming. She's, so we kind of, we're like, no, it's Wyoming. Well, after that, I knew that I started to get all of these feelings about drugs. The pant, like, um, in, um, illegal drugs coming in from, you know.

• 46:54Mayim Bialik?

  What's that feeling? What does it feel like?

• 46:57Speaker 00

  Just drugs. I started to smell drugs.

• 46:59Mayim Bialik?

  Oh.

• 46:59Speaker 00

  And, and I said, oh, this is, so I had a choice to make. And I said, look, I said, I feel the guy's in Wyoming, but if I go any further, I'm gonna put, I, I got, I had to get out of the session because then I would have put him in Florida or someplace. So it was a conscious decision on my part. And I said, I'm gonna say he's in Wyoming and let's, let's get out of the session because I was afraid with all of the drug feeling coming in, that I was gonna put him someplace else. Because he was one, he was a customs agent that went bad. See, he was, he was wanted, he was a customs agent that was, that was doing drug interdiction, but then for some reason, he took the money and he went rogue.

• 47:42Speaker 00

  And you know, in police organizations, if one of their own go off, you know, or not honest, other, the other cops, other people don't like him. So customs really wanted him.

• 47:54Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, so we've got, we've got, we've got Charles Jordan, you said Lowell or Lowell? You said Lowell.

• 48:01Speaker 00

  I said Lowell, Wyoming.

• 48:02Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 48:02Speaker 00

  Oh, and, and we didn't know, but we, then we went to, there was a small book in the room of, of an atlas, just pages of maps, pages of maps. And Fern said, you know, there's a Lowell, Wyoming, not a Lowell. And I said, close enough, that's it.

• 48:21Speaker 00

  You know, it was enough. I had to get out, or I was gonna change my information. And if you change, and that can happen psychically, where you pick up one thing, and then all of a sudden, you're on to something else. And that happens. And then you don't know what's right or what's wrong.

• 48:37Mayim Bialik?

  So now, we've got, there's a place called Lovell, Wyoming. And you, and I like that your response was close enough. I'm a frickin' psychic, go for it. So what happened then?

• 48:50Speaker 00

  Well, we came out, and of course, you know, the government goes crazy, because you can't write a report with two words, Lovell, Wyoming.

• 48:59Speaker 00

  So they were like, how are we gonna get the... They're like, can you give me something else? I said, no, that's it. So, they gave it to Dr. Verona, and Dr. Verona went to customs. And of course, everybody had the man in Florida, in the Bahamas, in the south. And Dr. Verona said, "We have a person that has him in Lovell, Wyoming." And customs said, "He would never be in Wyoming. He would be down south." So, we said, "Okay, thank you very much." So about, about a month later, they, um, a month later, and they kept nagging me to work this, because they wanted more information. I couldn't give it. It wasn't there.

• 49:44Speaker 00

  It just wasn't coming through. So about a month later, um, I think one guy came down from headquarters. And I think because he came down from headquarters, I said, "Okay, I'll do it again." So I went in, and I said, "If you want Charles Jordan, he's traveling west of Wyoming, west of Lovell." And I said, and I said, and I explained this hotel that was near an Indian burial ground. And I explained the Indian burial ground.

• 50:13Mayim Bialik?

  And you were just get, you were just getting more information?

• 50:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. By that time, I was just getting more information. So, um, so I did it. So I, I said, "Okay, let's try it one more time." I wasn't sure how it was gonna go. So I said, "He's moving west of Wyoming." There was a burial, I explained the Indian burial ground, the hotel. So Dr. Verona went back to customs and said, I'm sorry, but the person that, this person who has done pretty good in finding things and people, said that he's moving west of Lovell, Wyoming. And the customs man said, as we are speaking, we are apprehending Charles Jordan,

• 51:00Speaker 00

  100 miles west of Lovell, Wyoming.

• 51:03Mayim Bialik?

  No, Angela, no, that's crazy.

• 51:08Speaker 00

  I know. So anyway, I was real happy and I wanted the reward money. It was in a classified case. I said, I want the reward money. And they said, you were just doing your job. And, and they said, that's how they, I mean, yeah. And that, so then they told me, I said, how did they get him? And they said, there was a security guard at Yellowstone National Park that found him. And that's how they arrested him. So this is in 1989, 1989. And we'd, and so, okay, they got Charles Jordan and nice job, Angela. Everybody was happy. It was one for the books.

• 51:46Speaker 00

  Well, in 1995, because it was an unclassified case, the BBC got a hold of the case and researched it. They flew from England over here to where I live in Maryland. And they interviewed me and this man named Dale Graff. And Dale was part, he worked for Dr. Verona. Well, they came back a year later and they did a reenactment of the case. I think the reenactment took place in June, either 1995 or 1996. Dale said, boy, it's a shame we didn't get, it's a shame that our agency didn't get any credit for the find. And the Wyoming man, the Wyoming customs man said, are you kidding? It was because of Angela, we found Charles Jordan.

• 52:31Speaker 00

  And they said about three weeks after I said he was in Wyoming, Charles Jordan sent his mother a picture of himself to show that he was alive and well. And she Showed it to the FBI and when the FBI saw the picture, there was a truck that had level Wyoming, that had Wyoming license plates. And they said at that point, they started to send pictures up and FBI people up to start looking for Charles Jordan. And the area is, it's not that populated. And they said that probably they had the pictures all over the place at the Yellowstone. So they said it was because of me. So here I was, not all the, you know, years later that we just, that we got the, we got the credit.

• 53:16Jonathan Cohen?

  What role do you think that remote viewing, channeling should and could have in the defense apparatus moving forward?

• 53:27Speaker 00

  Well, I, you know, I was talking to my friend Ed May, the scientist about it. And he said, you know, Angela, when we were doing it, that there wasn't that many collection method, methods. Now there's so many collection methods now. Out there that they probably don't need psychics like they used to. But we were talking about AI, but I don't think AI can be like a psychic. So even though I don't think, I still think you need psychics other than AI. But I do believe there is a need for psychics because I think if you had a good psychic and they could help you find weapons of mass destruction.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  I think that they're good at finding hostages. I do think that remote viewing or psychics do, I think they do have a place. Now it may be different than whenever I did it, but you still have terrorists. You still need to know plans and intentions of world leaders. Are they good? And so I do think it, I do think it needs its place. There's so many different ways to collect information now, but I still feel you need the psychic. And you can take the psychic information and just blend it in with what I, when I worked for intelligence, I worked for over 32 years. Only nine of those years were as the psychic, but the rest was an analyst.

• 54:52Speaker 00

  And I had different accounts and you take, you know, you got signals doing, uh, collecting something. You've got a picture, somebody's on the ground telling you something. So you put it all together and, and, and that's what you do with psychic info. You put it all together and then you piece something together. But I would think now when we met with the Soviets or the former Soviet, the Russians, they wanted, they wanted a joint UF, US Russian program to fight terrorism. They want to work with us to fight terrorism.

• 55:25Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, I think the important thing that really stands out for me when you're talking about being an analyst and, and using a collection of data, folding it in. It's important to, for me to say that it's not that anyone should blindly trust an intuitive or psychic signal or someone else's opinion. It's about collecting the data and analyzing it amongst other signals. Your intelligence, your rational thought. And sometimes it is that the psychic information will come in ahead or in front of what rational thought can justify. And you might have to offer a bridge, but you know, if someone says quit your job tomorrow,

• 56:09Jonathan Cohen?

  you should be a little cautious and unless you have some additional information about what's going on.

• 56:15Mayim Bialik?

  So I want to go back just a little bit in time. When did you start channeling? And when did you know that that was a thing that you could do or having psychic abilities? Like, when did that start?

• 56:30Speaker 00

  It was after my father died and my father died in 1982. In 1983, my mother sent me this book. She said, read. So at that point I was working for Army Intelligence. My mother sent me the book. My mother was taking an ESP class at the college. And then, and then I kind of just opened up.

• 56:51Mayim Bialik?

  So what, did you channel like for fun on the weekends? Like, did you use it recreationally? Like, was this something you did? Like, I mean, I'm imagining, like, were you dating someone? Could you channel and see what they were feeling? Like, were you using this actively?

• 57:08Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah. I was, I was finding out information on my, um, on my family. I remembered I had a cousin and her husband, they were trying to adopt. They were, they were plant, they were waiting to adopt the baby and, and I said they would have their baby in March, and they did. And then I had a cousin, he was a businessman and he was running for politics in Pennsylvania. So I would do a lot of the forecasting business and things that were going to happen politically in Pennsylvania during that time period and I would tell them, yeah.

• 57:39Mayim Bialik?

  So those are things that in theory, right, if I wanted to like play a statistical game, I could be like, okay, well, you had a one in 12 chance or a one in six chance generally of knowing when they applied for adoption. Or even politics stuff, right? Those are things that I could be like, well, there's only so many ways things could go. Were there any instances where you were tapping into something on the lines of what you ended up kind of finding with Charles Jordan? Where you were learning information through channeling that for you was indisputable?

• 58:08Speaker 00

  I don't know. I remembered my cousin said, I told my cousin, our husband was going to get a new job in April and he got a new job May 1st and he said it didn't count because I said April and he didn't get it. Um, uh, no, but I'll tell you what was, I was really interested in was life, what goes on after we leave. I was getting a lot of information on my deceased relatives. And my mother was real happy about it because some of them I didn't know and they were her relatives. So, and, and then I can remember that my mother, um, I think she had a miscarriage. And they explained that the soul was on that side and that it was still part of our family karma.

• 58:53Speaker 00

  And that even though the soul wasn't born, when we go back, that soul, I'll meet that soul because it would have been my brother. So it's, I learned a lot like that, a lot of spiritual stuff. Like we go, we go on, we go on, we come back.

• 59:09Mayim Bialik?

  Um, I, I, I want to know, there are entities that sometimes accompany you when you see things. When did that start happening? And can you talk a little bit about how you maybe stood out from other people in your department? In that you were a channeler that was using entities? What, can you describe that?

• 59:32Speaker 00

  Well.

• 59:33Mayim Bialik?

  What did they call you? Sorry.

• 59:34Speaker 00

  I'm a witch. A witch. I'm, you know, I'm laughing about things now, but you know, at this age and everything I've been through, what, what can, what can anybody do to me at this point?

• 59:46Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, they were, actually, that's what's the automatic writing was that more or less you get helpers from the other side who kind of help you along.

• 59:55Mayim Bialik?

  What is automatic writing?

• 59:58Speaker 00

  I guess it's called channeling or spirit writing and that, um, it's channeling. Did you ever, um, I don't know. Have you ever seen the way John Edward works? Or who was the, the, the psychic medium, uh, what they call her, the Long Island medium?

• 1:00:14Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, Teresa Caputo, we spoke with her.

• 1:00:18Speaker 00

  They're talking it. When you see them working, they're channeling. I can do that, but I do it with automatic writing. I'm doing what they're doing, but I rely on my pen or pencils to do it.

• 1:00:30Mayim Bialik?

  You just put your pen down and you just write what comes?

• 1:00:34Speaker 00

  I can do what they do, but I can't do it verbally. I think they, what they do is that they can do it without any, um, tool is amazing to me. I do what they do. The only thing is, is I rely on the pen or paper.

• 1:00:49Mayim Bialik?

  And what are these entities?

• 1:00:52Speaker 00

  They're called, they're just helpers. They're like helpers that can help you or that can guide you. They kind of come in, it's sort of like you get the helpers that you need when you need them. It's sort of like, like if you're, if you have, if your mother's on the other side, okay?

• 1:01:08Mayim Bialik?

  Okay.

• 1:01:09Speaker 00

  Well, she's on the other side and she's busy doing things, but maybe you're going through a hard time. So she'll say, hey, you know what? I better go help my daughter out. She's going through a hard time. So she'll come down and she'll kind of guide you a little bit.

• 1:01:19Mayim Bialik?

  Does this happen to everybody? You just, we're just not all tapping into it? Like what, nothing happens for me like that, Angela, like ever?

• 1:01:27Speaker 00

  You have to have awareness. I think if you had awareness, I think, because there are, I mean, it's, it's, believe me, it's not, it's just not us here. It can't be. There has to be more, don't you think?

• 1:01:41Mayim Bialik?

  I, I mean, I'd like to think, I just, I don't have, I just don't really have personal, you know, experience to speak from. And I know Jonathan has a lot more kind of, you know, comfortability and familiarity with this notion. But like, whenever I've, and I've gone to a lot of guides, a lot of healers, a lot of channelers, a lot of mystics, and they're like, your guides are with you, your angels are with you. Like, I don't, I just, for me, I, I haven't had that experience.

• 1:02:08Speaker 00

  I think it's just aware. Jonathan, have you had a sensitivity?

• 1:02:11Jonathan Cohen?

  I have, yeah.

• 1:02:15Mayim Bialik?

  Am I the only one? Valerie? You have angels and guides? No, Valerie's with me. Valerie and I want to believe, though.

• 1:02:22Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, I, I've heard you describe that nothing is a coincidence. And tell us a little bit more about that.

• 1:02:29Speaker 00

  I think synchronicity, I believe in synchronicity. If synchronicity happens in your life, pay attention to it. I think that we're here to meet the people that we're supposed to meet. Just nothing is, no, nothing, it's not an accident. Nothing is an accident.

• 1:02:47Jonathan Cohen?

  I think one of the reasons that Mayim can say that she doesn't have the experience of being guided is that she has a very strong intellect and will sense something or, you know, have a, have an intuition and then try to rationalize it in the mind in certain ways. And so, one of the ways, you know, if we can generalize about how people start to integrate more intuition into their lives.

• 1:03:20Jonathan Cohen?

  I'd love to hear some suggestions. One might start to be, to start to notice those initial gut responses, reactions in certain situations. Would you agree as that is a tactic? Or, you know, given that you've studied this and also had a personal, you know, aptitude for it before studying, how would you recommend that people start to develop and become more aware of intuitive abilities?

• 1:03:44Speaker 00

  I think meditation, I really, I really think meditation opens people up and I really think it makes people more, just, I believe meditation does it, or learning yoga, but I do believe it's through meditation because I've seen people just open up through meditation. And it doesn't have to be along, like the Silva mind control, 10 minutes, just examples, just something like that. But yeah, I mean, you have a what, a doctorate's degree in what?

• 1:04:12Mayim Bialik?

  Neuroscience, neuroscience, yeah.

• 1:04:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, that's, you're thinking, you're a thinker.

• 1:04:17Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, I'm also a deep feeler. I just, really, yeah, I, um, yeah, I do spend a lot of time in my head, uh, for sure. But I guess it's also, you know, it, it, it takes all types of people, like, to make the world go around. I wonder what it would be like, you know, to live in a world where everyone was tapping into this kind of thing. I think we'd have a very different, you know, our life would be very different.

• 1:04:44Speaker 00

  Oh, I think it would be, people would feel more. You would feel, you wouldn't want to hurt somebody. I mean, I think people would, would just feel more. They would, you know, you just care more, you know, watch what you say, you don't want to hurt, not be a bully. I think that you just, just feel more.

• 1:05:11Mayim Bialik?

  We're gonna hit pause here. We have so much more to talk about with Angela Ford. Please make sure you're subscribed and make sure to check out part two. And we'll sign off here for now and can't wait for you to hear what else Angela Ford's gonna talk about in our next episode with her.

• 1:05:26Jonathan Cohen?

  From our breakdown to the one you're gonna have with us, right after this, we'll see you next time.

• 1:05:47Speaker 02

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