Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen

Filmmakers Seth and Lauren Rogen join the show to answer a listener’s question about family upheaval caused by caring for an aging parent. Seth and Lauren open up about caring for Lauren’s mother after she received an early Alzheimer’s diagnosis, and Michelle and Craig share stories about the family caretaking that shaped their childhoods. Also find out how new hobbies and ceramic bongs could help you stay sharp as you age. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com. Find additional resources at the Rogens’ Hilarity for Charity’s website: https://wearehfc.org/ See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I come from a family steeped in

• 0:02Speaker 01

  Talking about it.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  Talking about your feelings. My, my family can't stop talking about it.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  No, they cannot.

• 0:08Speaker 00

  As much as you would wish, they, they are incapable of that. I just knew I like was completely incapable of, of dealing with this. And I was just like, you, this is like a professional level of grief you are and, and something that you need to like have gone to school to understand how to navigate this kind of thing. And, and that was very helpful.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  Seth was the one that was like, I love you. I'm happy to, you know, hold you while you cry, but you need a professional. And, and I did. I really did. And, and it really helped.

• 0:45Michelle Obama?

  This episode is brought to you by Colagard and Pine Sol.

• 0:50Craig Robinson?

  Hey you.

• 0:51Michelle Obama?

  Hi Craig.

• 0:52Craig Robinson?

  How are you, Michelle?

• 0:54Michelle Obama?

  Hey, I'm doing pretty good.

• 0:56Craig Robinson?

  Good. We're back at our nice Airbnb taping out here on the west coast.

• 1:00Michelle Obama?

  It's so beautiful out here.

• 1:02Craig Robinson?

  I know.

• 1:03Michelle Obama?

  Good weather. Coming from, it's like east coast doesn't, you know, weather is a little chilly.

• 1:09Craig Robinson?

  In the Midwest, it was, we had our coldest week and it hit down into the thirties, which isn't that cold for us, but it's cold.

• 1:18Michelle Obama?

  I know. But when you live in cold weather, you know, in Chicago, if it's, if it's been zero degrees or below zero, 40 people are like going to the beach. It's like 40 degrees and people were like, it's hot out here. So I feel like I've lost my, my cold weather edge. I'm kind of a wimp.

• 1:37Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. People who, who live in the Midwest don't know DC is warm most of the time.

• 1:43Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah. That's one of the reasons why we, we, we like it there. I mean, you get pretty good weather. You get all seasons, but the summers are hot and swampy. So it's good to be in LA and it's good to be with you.

• 1:55Craig Robinson?

  It's so fun to be with you. I'm just having a ball doing these.

• 2:01Michelle Obama?

  But today we've got, you know, we're talking about some, some tough stuff.

• 2:05Craig Robinson?

  Some tough stuff.

• 2:07Michelle Obama?

  We've been dealing with.

• 2:08Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. And, you know, we, we're, we're going to talk about people who are dealing with family members with Alzheimer's. And, uh, you know, I was, I was talking to the crew before we got started and you know, you talk about our Uncle Terry, our great uncle Terry, and we didn't know what. Alzheimer's was, or dementia, or anything like that back when we were younger. But we've been fortunate. We haven't had to deal with this like some people have.

• 2:39Michelle Obama?

  Just to give listeners some context, so we grew up in a multi-generational household. You know, Aunt Robbie was our piano teacher. She was like the piano teacher for the entire neighborhood. And Uncle Terry was kind of this distinguished gentleman. Who, one thing stood out with Terry is like every day he wore a suit.

• 3:04Craig Robinson?

  Coat and tie.

• 3:05Michelle Obama?

  And suspenders with a brimmed hat. He would wake up every day and shave. He had a, he was very regimented. You know, he, he would eat prunes every day. I remember that distinctly, stewed prunes.

• 3:20Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 3:21Michelle Obama?

  Didn't know why. Now, as I get older, I understand the stewed prunes.

• 3:25Craig Robinson?

  He was ahead of the game.

• 3:26Michelle Obama?

  He was ahead of the game. But just setting the stage for as he aged, and he lived into his eighties.

• 3:33Craig Robinson?

  Eighties.

• 3:35Michelle Obama?

  And both he and Aunt Robbie started to age as we grew up and became, I think it was, by the time we were in eighth grade, it seemed like middle school age when Terry really started exhibiting signs of dementia. You know, it came in the form of nighttime, just confusion. So things, the things that we remembered growing up was always at night because some, sometimes he started getting up and walking and reliving things. And at first I thought it was nightmares.

• 4:14Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, we, we, we always thought it was nightmares and we only noticed it at night because during the day, mom and dad would handle things and not, not worry us with it. But at night. You couldn't help it and.

• 4:28Michelle Obama?

  But realize that he would get up in his pajamas and leave the house sometimes with no shoes.

• 4:34Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 4:36Michelle Obama?

  And, you know, and then the search would be on, where is Terry? You know, he got out and Aunt Robbie was getting older, so she didn't know what to do. So our, our parents, our mother and father essentially became caretakers for them. And, you know, looking back, they were in that sandwich generation where they had young kids that they were raising, not a lot of resources, two really wonderful people who were aging right before their very eyes. And my mom, who was staying at home, was, you know, she would take care of Robbie, bathe her, organize her food. Dad would take care of Terry, make sure that he was still shaven.

• 5:19Michelle Obama?

  It was really a sweet image to have our father, who himself was.

• 5:23Craig Robinson?

  Was disabled. You know, the, the, just to remind our listeners, our dad had MS and walked with a limp from the time we knew him, and it got progressively worse. And he would limp his way downstairs and bathe Terry and shave him and get him out of bed. And, you know, it got to a point where he would ask me to go down with him to help him because he, it was getting hard for him to do it. And it was really an eye opening thing for me to see.

• 5:53Michelle Obama?

  Well, they made it look easy, our parents did, in the, in this multi generational household. But now as we're adults and look back, I mean, we just went through caring for mom. And she fortunately never went through any dementia, but she got to the point where just sort of physically, she needed more care than she wanted.

• 6:15Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 6:16Michelle Obama?

  And just the anxiety that comes with that, you know, just realizing that that's what mom and dad were dealing with, with no money, you know, needing to work every day. And I, I can tell you, we never talked about this, but I did feel a little like lost because I felt like I didn't have mom's attention, you know, in a way, you know, you, I didn't want to say that out loud, but I know when I think back on it, I felt, wow, she was exhausted. And I felt her exhaustion in the form of.

• 6:53Michelle Obama?

  Like she wasn't there for me in the same way. You know, she would cook dinner, but then she'd have to go down and do something for Robbie. Or at night, she couldn't sleep because Terry would get out. It just, you know, I, I think now that I look back as a kid, I, I felt that, that loss.

• 7:13Craig Robinson?

  See, I never knew that. You're right. We, we have never talked about that. And, you know, I was your typical boy. So I didn't, I didn't.

• 7:19Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 7:20Craig Robinson?

  I felt like mom was doing what she had to do. So whatever I wasn't getting, I sort of just thugged through it and.

• 7:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. Well, so many families, and we're going to talk about this more, are in that same kind of, that same kind of crunch with aging parents, young kids, um, a sort of healthcare community that isn't really, you know, prepared to support families in this process. And, you know, we, we are going to spend some time talking about that more today.

• 7:56Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. And we have the perfect couple to help us with that. We've got Seth and Lauren Rogan with us today. And they have some history with caring for a parent who's had Alzheimer's disease. And so I'm, I'm really interested in that. And for those of you who don't know, Lauren is a screenwriter, producer, director, actress, and most of all a philanthropist, along with Seth. And Seth really doesn't need any introduction, but he's also a fine actor and a funny person

• 8:40Craig Robinson?

  and writer, screen, screenwriter, producer, director. But I, I want to welcome our guests, Lauren and Seth Rogan. Come on out, gang.

• 8:52Michelle Obama?

  Hey, guys.

• 9:01Craig Robinson?

  So happy you're here. It's so nice to meet you.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Very excited to chat with you guys.

• 9:07Craig Robinson?

  Pleasure. All right. Come on in.

• 9:10Michelle Obama?

  We have not officially met or

• 9:14Speaker 00

  No, not really.

• 9:15Michelle Obama?

  had an opportunity to spend time together. And, you know, I'm a fan.

• 9:20Speaker 00

  Thank you. Me too.

• 9:24Michelle Obama?

  But it's just sort of amazing to, you know, know that people we see and come to love, you know, to hear about their lives outside of the work that they do and the things that make them famous. And, you know, our topic today, Alzheimer's, aging parents. I mean, you guys have lived it. And, you know, in addition to all the things you do in the business, you know, you're making a difference in people's lives. And so I just am grateful for the work that you do and just thankful that you guys are here to share some of that with us.

• 10:01Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  Thank you for saying that. That means a lot coming from you. So thank you.

• 10:05Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 10:05Craig Robinson?

  So how are you guys?

• 10:07Speaker 01

  We're good.

• 10:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're pretty good.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  You know, it's crazy times and

• 10:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  busy and, you know.

• 10:15Michelle Obama?

  You're working on some good, good fun stuff lately?

• 10:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, lots of stuff. I've been very fortunate to be working a ton. We're producing a movie together, actually, about Alzheimer's, actually.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  About a young woman caring for her mom with Alzheimer's, based on a graphic novel about a young woman caring for her mom.

• 10:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's great. It's an animated film that's very sad and funny. And Julia Louis-Dreyfus stars as the matriarch character who has dementia.

• 10:45Michelle Obama?

  What made you decide that animation was a good way to go?

• 10:49Speaker 01

  Honestly, it was the book itself. It really captured the caregiving experience from a young person's point of view with Humor and a lot of deep sadness and the, the, it's, it's black and white, hand drawn and there's something sort of very poignant, I think, about that visual.

• 11:12Michelle Obama?

  And, and how was it for you guys in the process of making it? You know, did it take you back? You know, how did you manage just getting through the project emotionally?

• 11:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, we've been working on it since 2016. Yeah, because it takes a long time to get a movie made.

• 11:28Michelle Obama?

  I am learning.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Especially an animated movie that is not expensive. We were recording last week just with Abby Jacobson and recording some of the more emotionally heavy scenes and definitely, you know, there was not a dry eye in the recording studio.

• 11:47Craig Robinson?

  Oh, I bet.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  You know, but, but it's, in a way, it feels so good to tell a story like this in a way that like, I think is very, it's not going to hit you over the head with sadness.

• 11:58Speaker 00

  No, it's very entertaining. Yeah. It feels good to take something so sad and turn it into something that is meant for ultimately, yeah, for enjoyment and entertainment. And although it's a sad movie, I think it's very uplifting and poignant and, and, and yeah, it's a very nice creative exercise in that way.

• 12:17Michelle Obama?

  But we don't talk a lot about Alzheimer's and as Craig and I were sharing earlier, like, growing up, we, we didn't even have a name for it. You know, it was just sort of Terry got out.

• 12:30Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 12:31Michelle Obama?

  You know, that's what it was, you know, and eventually we, our, our grandfather rigged the house with buzzers and locks and, you know, so it became less a discussion about the disease or the issue because it wasn't known as a disease and it was just the process of containing him.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, it's a disease that carries so much stigma, you know, dating back to when you guys were experiencing firsthand as children and people didn't really know and, and were really scared and would look at someone with dementia and, and have so much fear. And I think in the, in the decades that have followed since then, I, I think that that stigma has lessened, especially in the last five or 10 years, I think.

• 13:13Speaker 00

  It feels like in the last decade, there's been like a seismic shift in people's understanding of Alzheimer's and like willingness to even talk about it. Like when, when we first started like doing charity in the Alzheimer's world, like nobody wanted to talk about it even. And getting people with Alzheimer's to speak and to kind of come forward and share their experience was very hard. And even people's, people who had family members didn't want to talk about it. It was, yeah, we've, I think, personally seen Alzheimer's kind of start to go over that hump from being something like no one talks about to being something that like people are, seem more willing to talk about, right?

• 13:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and, and even in the early years of my mom's diagnosis.

• 13:53Michelle Obama?

  Cause she was early onset, so she was very young.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  She was very young. She started showing signs at 52 and then was diagnosed just before she was 55. So, you know, and she had, unfortunately, we had all witnessed, my grandparents, her parents have dementia. And so in those early years, my mom herself was ashamed and didn't want us to talk about it. My mom was a, a teacher. She taught elementary school for 35 years, first grade for most of that. And then to go from this woman who was an active teacher with children every day to someone who eventually was a shell of herself over a close to 18 year journey was, you know, a long, long road, but not talking about it in the beginning because of that

• 14:37Speaker 01

  stigma, because of that fear that she had that we all had, didn't help anyone, didn't help me, didn't help her, doesn't help the overall cause. And so eventually, you know, as storytellers, we just kind of had to talk about it. I couldn't keep it in any longer. And for better or worse, my mom's disease advanced. And so, you know, but I think once we started sharing our story. Was when I started to feel like I had any type of control over this thing that I I didn't actually have any control over.

• 15:08Michelle Obama?

  And I just want to, Lauren, how old were you when she was first diagnosed? I just wanted to get a sense of where were you in your life when you started losing your mom?

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, just before I turned 25. So really young.

• 15:21Craig Robinson?

  Oh, wow.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it was at my college graduation when I was 22 that she repeated a story a couple times throughout that weekend. And because of what I had seen with my grandparents.

• 15:31Michelle Obama?

  You knew what it was.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, but I didn't say anything out loud to anyone for close to, I guess, a year and a half after that. And then eventually we, we were dating at that point and my parents came out to visit. And it was very clear to me that this was happening. And I dropped them off at the airport and I came back to Seth's apartment and, and I just, it was the first time I'd said it out loud to anyone, like something is going on.

• 15:54Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, you said it to Seth.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  I said it to Seth and he was like, she seemed fine.

• 15:57Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, of course. Like, I didn't really know her.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  He didn't know her.

• 16:01Craig Robinson?

  I didn't know her at all, really.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  She's like, what do you mean? She's great.

• 16:04Craig Robinson?

  You're overreacting. Yeah, it was one of the first times I met her.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  She's funny, yeah.

• 16:09Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, but, you know, soon it was, it was obvious that unfortunately, this was our path.

• 16:22Craig Robinson?

  Well, you know, another story I think about is how mom and dad trained us to work hard.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 16:32Craig Robinson?

  You remember the chores?

• 16:33Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah, we had chores very early on, very early on. That's another thing, I think, you know, um, one, one of the best things that our parents did for us is.

• 16:44Craig Robinson?

  Real work.

• 16:45Michelle Obama?

  Real, real work around the house.

• 16:47Craig Robinson?

  And what I mean by real work is I had, my chores were to clean the bathroom.

• 16:55Michelle Obama?

  I cleaned the bathroom. What are you talking about?

• 16:57Craig Robinson?

  No.

• 16:58Michelle Obama?

  We alternated.

• 16:59Craig Robinson?

  We alternated weeks.

• 17:00Michelle Obama?

  Okay, because I loved cleaning the bathroom.

• 17:02Craig Robinson?

  And I didn't, but I had to do it. Mom wanted us both to know how to have a clean bathroom. But my every, every weekend job.

• 17:12Craig Robinson?

  Was cleaning those stairs.

• 17:15Michelle Obama?

  Oh, that's right. Yeah.

• 17:16Craig Robinson?

  We had 14 stairs. Notice, I remember how many there were.

• 17:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, you had to. Yeah.

• 17:22Craig Robinson?

  That.

• 17:23Michelle Obama?

  Went from.

• 17:24Craig Robinson?

  Went from our apartment down to our aunt, great aunt Robbie's apartment. And this is what I remember about Saturday morning. You remember that tin pot?

• 17:34Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 17:35Craig Robinson?

  That we used to have. We had a tin pot, a pot now that used to be on the stove, which was now used for cleaning. And you put a little soap, dish soap in it. And then you put Pine-Sol.

• 17:47Michelle Obama?

  Ooh, not like Pine-Sol.

• 17:48Craig Robinson?

  And there was nothing like that smell. Like when you came home from school and mom had been mopping and you could smell the Pine-Sol. It was usually Monday because she had laundry on Monday. You come home from school and it smells like, ah, new house.

• 18:04Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 18:05Craig Robinson?

  And I have to say that I still to this day, when I'm mopping, if we don't have that pine oil smell.

• 18:18Michelle Obama?

  That's it.

• 18:19Craig Robinson?

  That's it, isn't it?

• 18:20Michelle Obama?

  That's it.

• 18:20Craig Robinson?

  And here we are in adulthood and they're a partner of ours on this podcast.

• 18:26Michelle Obama?

  Well, you know, an appropriate partner.

• 18:28Craig Robinson?

  How about it? So when you, when, when you get a chance out there, visit Pine-Sol.com and find out where you can shop for your Pine-Sol. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. The Cologuard test is a one-of-a-kind way to feel more in control of your colon cancer screening through a prescription-based test with none of the prep that's required of a colonoscopy. When I was a coach, my players had a team of people helping them with their physical well-being. They had so many tools to make sure every member of the team was on top of their health and wellness. But what I want our listeners to know is that even if you eat well and have a

• 19:10Craig Robinson?

  healthy lifestyle, that does not mean you are low risk for colon cancer. The Cologuard test is the only FDA-approved, non-invasive option that looks for both altered DNA and blood in your stool, which can indicate the presence of abnormal cells. The good news is that when caught at the early stages, colon cancer is survivable in 90% of people, so screening and early detection are crucial. With zero downtime, no special preparation, and a screening test that's delivered right to your door, we shouldn't let our health take a backseat. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening

• 19:53Craig Robinson?

  for colon cancer with the Cologuard test. You can also request a Cologuard prescription today at cologuard.com/podcast. The Cologuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use a Cologuard test if you have adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease, and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Cologuard test is not a replacement for colonoscopy in high-risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older.

• 20:38Craig Robinson?

  False positives and false negatives can occur. Cologuard is available by prescription only. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Theraflu. As a product that was created to provide effective and comforting relief when you're fighting the flu or a cold, Theraflu firmly believes that the ability to rest and recover when sick should be a right, not a privilege. You know, I think back to the time when my dad was working for the city of Chicago as a stationary fireman, and it seemed to us that he never missed work and he never got sick. But what we realized is that my dad didn't want to take his paid sick time because he

• 21:22Craig Robinson?

  wasn't sure if he would keep his job by doing that. And my sister and I realized that my dad was, would be sick, but he just thugged through it. It was a difficult thing for him to deal with then. And unfortunately, so many Americans still face this pressure today. 27 million Americans still lack paid sick time, which causes them to have to choose between losing a day's pay and getting the proper rest they need in order to get better. And what's worse, this all too common issue disproportionately impacts lower income individuals. Theraflu created the Rest and Recover Fund,

• 22:05Craig Robinson?

  which has committed nearly $1 million to provide micro grants to workers to help offset the financial burden of taking an unpaid sick day. It's been making a big impact, and Theraflu is committed to keeping the fight going, as everyone deserves the right to rest and recover. Learn more or help someone apply for the fund at theraflu.com/righttorecover.

• 22:38Craig Robinson?

  And before we get to the question, I want you to tell us about hilarity for charity.

• 22:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  We, you know, like I said, we spent the first few years feeling scared and sad and didn't know what to do. And then eventually, we were just like, I have to start talking about it. So we went to a few events. And then a friend came to us and is like, let's, let's throw a variety show and we'll raise money for Alzheimer's in honor of your mom, which was incredibly moving. And up until that point, this was in 2012, I felt very alone. I was like, I'm the only young person dealing with this. And of course, I was horribly wrong, which I luckily was wrong because I wasn't alone. And there was, for better or worse, a community of young people who were dealing with it. And so I think that helped to sort of form the idea of, let's create something where young people can have a voice and they can feel like they are part of giving back.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  And like I said, having some sort of control over something that they don't have control over. And so we just sort of looked at our own situation when we started raising money as an organization. And we're like, how can we actually help people today in this moment?

• 23:42Speaker 00

  And we were finding with Lauren's mother, who was progressing, that Like it was one of these things in life where like money just made it better. Like and like you know, it's unfair when those things happen and you don't, you know, it's not like you want to look at a kid in the face and be like, money can actually fix some major problems. It cannot buy happiness, but it can for sure alleviate stress and angst, you know, and a sense of impending doom, you know. And yeah, we had around the clock, we were able to buy like a duplex for Lauren's mother and father and he lived in one side and she lived on the other side with like 24 hours a day, seven day a week care.

• 24:24Speaker 00

  And we just saw like, oh, this has made everyone's lives so much more manageable. And that was really part of the inspiration for like, what do we do with the money we are raising? Maybe we can help alleviate other people's problems.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that's how we started our grant program in which we provide respite care to people who are caring for their loved ones at home. And we read applications every month and the stories are unbelievably real and often quite sad and dire and people are, you know, doing everything they can with what they have, but it's often not enough to care for someone with this disease and they need help, they need respite, they need a break. And so that's where part of our money goes into awarding these respite grants to people who are caring for their loved ones at home. We also created a lot of support groups. I was part of a support group for young people. The first support group I went to was like just a general group. And I remember there was a man in there who was in his 50s caring for his mother, who

• 25:24Speaker 01

  was probably in her late 70s or 80s caring for his mother. And I was just like, that's sad, but I'm 23. Yeah. Like we're in drastically different boats. And so actually the woman who ran that support group was one who created this group for young people and it was people under, I think, 35. And that really showed me community, being with people who understand exactly what you're going through. Is so helpful and can really, really get you through a tough situation. So we made a lot of different support groups, made them accessible. We were, we were doing online virtual support groups since 2014, long before the pandemic and Zoom. And so doing that, and then of course, we have a lot of programming for caregivers, symposiums.

• 26:09Speaker 01

  We do a large virtual event every year, all throughout the year. We do virtual learning workshops for people.

• 26:15Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  And created what we call like the five brain health tips. So it's getting good sleep, eating well, exercising, emotional wellbeing. So, you know, being active, being loved, doing therapy, meditating. And then learning new things, like being mentally fit. So new hobbies, being socially active, those types of things.

• 26:36Michelle Obama?

  And they, they've talked that it's different from like, some people think puzzling and things like that, but they're, they're learning that that's not necessarily the same thing as learning a brand new skill.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah. Like they say crossword puzzles, look, it's probably better than staring at the television.

• 26:50Michelle Obama?

  Exactly.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  But yeah, if you're doing a crossword puzzle, you're accessing what's already in your brain. You want to learn new things. So like we took up pottery. I'm now doing Duolingo and, you know, and just always trying to keep your brain like learning and growing as much as you can. And we created online coursework called HFC Universe. And the first level is taught by Seth and some other fellow celebrity professors.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, Quentin Brunson, Christian Bell, and yeah, some other people.

• 27:23Speaker 00

  Well, here's what's funny. We actually did, this is sad what I'm about to tell you. We did a scientific study that was published where me, me and the neurologist, Richard Isaacson, both taught the same coursework to, to kids. And we proved definitively that young people learn things better from celebrities than from actual doctors.

• 27:51Speaker 00

  It is good to know. So whenever someone's like, why are you doing this? I'm like, because science has told me you will retain it better. You hear it from me.

• 27:59Michelle Obama?

  The only thing, I wish that worked with voting.

• 28:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. I know, it's the inverse, I think.

• 28:05Michelle Obama?

  And not to, not to bring us down, you know? That was the hope.

• 28:09Speaker 00

  No, not at all.

• 28:10Craig Robinson?

  Lauren, does he make you call him Dr. Rogan now?

• 28:12Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  Only sometimes.

• 28:14Speaker 00

  Only sometimes.

• 28:15Michelle Obama?

  So what do you, what are you teaching? What do you tell us? Teach us something.

• 28:19Speaker 00

  Well, again, I think it's the things Lauren's talking about. Sleep is actually one of, I think, the things that especially in like our culture, like you've been conditioned to de-prioritize sleep.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  I'll sleep when I'm dead.

• 28:30Speaker 00

  I'll sleep when I'm dead.

• 28:31Michelle Obama?

  It's like, and you're, and you're frying your brain in the process.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:36Speaker 00

  It's true, and that's something that like, I think, yeah, is, is very easy for, and it's good news, like that's one of the few good ones. It's like, most people like to sleep to be told, like prioritize your sleep.

• 28:46Michelle Obama?

  I'm a big fan of sleeping.

• 28:47Speaker 00

  Oh, it's great.

• 28:48Michelle Obama?

  Bedtime is my favorite time of day.

• 28:50Speaker 00

  That's like Lauren.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  Literally, you got into bed last night, I was like, this is my favorite time of day.

• 28:54Michelle Obama?

  I know, this is, you fucked up Barack, I'm just like, oh! It's over. And he's like, there you are.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  You know, we got our puppy, it's just really... But yeah, no, it's funny, because so many people are like, how could I sleep better? My sleep is terrible. And it's like, well, you actually can if you work on it and you bring in some tools and aids. We have a cooling pad, I have a weighted blanket, I have the best mask, I, we do white noise, I have cooling sheets.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  You have 300 things.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  I have a lot of things, but like, but I, because I do track my sleep, I see that doing those things legitimately increased it.

• 29:24Craig Robinson?

  Sounds like that would keep me wide awake.

• 29:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. It's a little stressful. You do get a score now, like everything, it's like they've gamified it. So yeah, like I get a sleep score, which does, in the middle of the night, I'll be awake and I'm like, my score is plummeting.

• 29:36Michelle Obama?

  That's like, that's like.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  And I'm wondering what you get, what you get.

• 29:39Speaker 00

  I know. I had a pretty good score last night.

• 29:41Michelle Obama?

  So, but it's, yeah.

• 29:42Craig Robinson?

  This might be a good time to get, to hear our question from our listener, because um, let's, let's help, help them get some solutions. So we have Natalie, who's our producer, will read the question and then we'll...

• 29:55Michelle Obama?

  I'm sorry Natalie, you are involved.

• 29:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:57Michelle Obama?

  She wants to pretend like I'm not here.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Tell her not to.

• 30:02Speaker 04

  Hi, Michelle and Craig. My name is Nick and I'm 38 years old and I live in Miami, Florida. I have an elderly mother who's recently been admitted to an assisted living community due to her Alzheimer's disease progressing beyond our family's care. But the road to getting there was tough. For several years, my dad and I were her primary caregivers. Well, my dad was her primary caregiver, taking care of the house, cleaning, cooking. And then I was my dad's caregiver. I'd grocery shop for him, make sure he was eating properly, come over to watch the game. But that often meant I was leaving my own wife and young son at home a few nights a week. Now, my relationship with

• 30:43Speaker 04

  my wife is suffering. She's very understanding of my situation, but we lack any real time together outside of going to work, taking care of our house, making sure our son has everything he needs. And then recently, in one of our weekly visits to see my mom in her new care facility, she introduced us to her new boyfriend that she met there. The only problem is, my dad is very much in love with her and dedicated to her still. We know in our heads that this is the disease taking its effect, but we're having a difficult time watching my mom turn into someone that sees me and my father as, quote, "the assholes

• 31:23Speaker 04

  out to ruin her relationship with the love of her life." And now I'm left wondering, after all these years of strain, what will the emotional fallout of all of this be? My dad's sense of himself without my mom, and his heartbreak at what's happening at the end. I'll continue to be there for him, but my own home life has suffered so much for so long, and I know my wife and son deserve so much more. In the midst of it all, I haven't even begun to try to come to terms with the fact that my mom is no longer the same person that raised me and supported me through the best and worst moments of my life, and soon that she won't be here with us at all. How do we even begin to come together again as a family?

• 32:08Speaker 04

  When we're all exhausted, already devastated, and have no real time to take care of ourselves? How do we move forward, each of us, successfully from here? Thanks for your thoughts. Nick.

• 32:21Craig Robinson?

  Ooh, Nick.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  Keeping it light.

• 32:24Speaker 00

  Nick's going through it.

• 32:24Craig Robinson?

  Welcome to the show.

• 32:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 32:27Michelle Obama?

  And thank you again for the animated film.

• 32:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:30Michelle Obama?

  We will need it.

• 32:31Speaker 00

  It'll help us a little bit, yeah.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:34Speaker 00

  Wow, that's a lot, Nick.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  There's a lot to unpack there.

• 32:36Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  Well, I think one of the things that we learned early on is, I remember, because Lauren's father was taking care of Lauren's mother and was very resistant to getting help. I think especially generationally, it's like, and his, his parents had, you know, like, there had been things in his family where people had been put in homes, and I think he was not thrilled with how that was. So he was very insistent on kind of bearing the weight of it. And one thing we learned was that often caretakers die before the person they are taking care of because of the physical and emotional toll it takes on them. And that was something we were like seeing happen in real time, basically, you know?

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Very much. It was very, my parents were in Florida at the time. We were in Los Angeles, and it was very clear that the, the strain that was on my dad as her caregiver was not good. And it was so heavy and so immense, and so...

• 33:33Speaker 00

  It was one of those things where like he was in it. And we would like leave and come back every once in a while. And I think like the three months that, you know, didn't seem like things had gotten much worse from his perspective. And then we, you know, because we, again, were coming and going, we'd come back and be like, oh, my God, like, this is...

• 33:47Michelle Obama?

  This is immense.

• 33:48Speaker 00

  So bad.

• 33:49Craig Robinson?

  And how did that manifest in actually? What, what were the stressors that you saw?

• 33:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, so my mom, you know, early onset is, well, so Dr. Isaacson will quote him and say like, if you've seen one case of Alzheimer's, you've seen one case of Alzheimer's. So it really does affect everyone differently, although of course there are some things that, that, you know, are a bit more universal. So my mom... Just started getting more and more difficult, resistant to help. She also would wander. She would walk around the house from sunup to way past sundown.

• 34:26Speaker 00

  And just scream.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  And eventually she started screaming for hours, walking around and screaming. She also would walk out the door. My dad had to sort of put paper over the windows to cover up what was outside to try to keep her inside. And the toll it was taking on was was huge, as I said. And we often felt like when we tried to step into caregiver, there was resistance because he really, he was her caregiver.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  And he felt like he had like a system. He was like, this is like, I know how to work the system.

• 34:58Craig Robinson?

  Okay. So not from your mom, but actually from your dad?

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yes. It quickly, you know, after the first couple of years, it was clear. I would say by the time she was 58, 57, maybe she had to retire from teaching, maybe 56 even. And then by, yeah, by 58, 59, she really needed care. She was still mobile at that point, but but it was pretty hard to, you know, get her to focus or, you know, stay calm in a lot of moments. And so I, you know, I was in therapy at the time, still am. And, you know, my therapist was like, well, if your dad is the primary caregiver, then you should be your dad's primary caregiver. So sort of like, you know, what are?

• 35:45Michelle Obama?

  What Nick is.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  What Nick has said is, you know, when someone is the primary caregiver and they are showing that they are taking the lead, then as the child, it was my, it was very helpful to me to know how I could help. You know, before it was like, I don't know what to do or how to help. So it was like, how do we make this easier for my dad so then he can help my mom?

• 36:05Speaker 00

  But there's also the nuance of like. When do you kind of force them into doing things they don't want to do? Cause like, cause yeah, like you hope people will arrive at what is the right decision on their own.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that doesn't always happen.

• 36:18Speaker 00

  That does not always happen in the amount of time it needs to. And so I feel like there was a moment where we were like, it was my dad, actually, who has no filter whatsoever.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  It really was, yeah.

• 36:29Speaker 00

  Like, we were, we were all.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  We all went to their house in Florida for Thanksgiving.

• 36:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, and my dad was just like, he talked with his eyes closed. And he was just like, you have to move out of this house. And you have to move to California and you have to not be alone here. Like, he's like, this is an excruciating situation for you. It's excruciating for your children. It's just getting worse and worse. And he's like, there's absolutely no excuse to not leaving to come to Los Angeles, basically.

• 36:54Michelle Obama?

  And this is one of these issues that even transcends the Alzheimer's issue. It's, you know, dealing with aging parents, period.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  It was, you know, one of the challenges with my mom, who, you know, again, was always independent,

• 37:09Michelle Obama?

  but there was a level of pride in her. And even though we had the resources, she resented the help that we were. And so then I found myself sort of in a reverse parent-child relationship.

• 37:23Speaker 00

  Oh, for sure.

• 37:24Michelle Obama?

  Because getting her to stick to the diet she was supposed to have, or, you know, trying to make sure that she was being nice to the caregivers. You know, I could empathize with her, feeling like she wanted to maintain as much control, but she was making it hard. And this is with resources.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:46Michelle Obama?

  So a lot of families are dealing with this kind of stress of aging parents not really being able to let go. And, and doing it because they don't want to be a burden in their minds.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 37:59Speaker 00

  But don't realize how much harder they're making it emotionally for people by not getting help and just, yeah, pride is a, is a tough thing sometimes, I think, you know? And, and, and sometimes makes things better and sometimes makes things worse, you know?

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think, you know, my mom, having seen both of her parents go through it, and my dad witnessing my mom's parents go through it, they saw a lot of things they. Were obviously scared of and didn't want to repeat. You know, per Nick's question, I'll share my grandfather, my mom's dad. When he was, he was older, his onset was sort of in his seventies. But my grandmother, you know, was having trouble caring for him at home and put him in a nursing facility. And shortly after he was there, walked in and there he was with his new girlfriend. And I was, you know, I was under 10 at the time, so I don't have a huge memory of it.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  But I know that it upset her so much that she took him out of that, that home and put him somewhere else that was unfortunately lesser. And that move wasn't good for anyone.

• 39:08Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  And wasn't good for him, wasn't good for her. I don't think it was good for my mom or my uncle witnessing that. And so I think that my, my dad, when he was faced with it, really wanted to take that history into, you know, his decision to keep my mom at home entirely and to bring care in, which is wonderful, but as Seth touched on, not financially feasible for so many people. And so I think it comes back to, and it's so hard and I can say it and it's easy, but like a level of acceptance.

• 39:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  And, you know, meeting someone where they're at. And my mom, early on, actually kind of gave me an amazing gift. Early on in her, after her diagnosis, I asked her one day if she was scared. And she told me that she wasn't scared for her, but she was scared for us. Because she knew what we were going to be going through, because she had gone through it herself. But that I was not to stop my life for her.

• 40:12Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  And I was not to move back home to Florida. I was not to give up who I was becoming in my early twenties to take care of her. And I think that, you know, when I think of Nick in this situation, how we talked about she's, his mom is not who she used to be. And I think it's hard, but to remember that we're not parents, but to imagine that I assume all parents want their children to be happy.

• 40:38Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  And ultimately, at the end of the day, that's what they would want. And so you have to, as the caregiver, sort of sit back and think, my mom, my dad, they'd want me to be happy. And what does that mean? What choices do I need to make in order to still live my own life in the way that my parent would want me to? And so people who are in the sandwich generation, who are in the thick of it, right? Like caring for kids, caring for parents, have double duty of care. And it's so incredibly hard to manage that. And you just have to sort of accept you cannot make everyone happy

• 41:19Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  in every moment. And some days it'll be your mom, some days it'll be your kid. And hopefully, more often than not, it'll be yourself.

• 41:26Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  Because that is like what the oxygen mask thing, right? You put it on yourself before anyone else. Like, you can't take care of other people if you're not taking care of yourself. Which is why ultimately, I figured I need to care for my dad so he could care for my mom. And so, you know, I think that, you know, you just have to understand your situation. And then you look for resources. Yeah. You know, unfortunately, our country does not have universal healthcare as much as we all wish it did. And the resources for caregivers specifically are not yet, I would say with optimism, where they could be. Although there have been strides and there are actually

• 42:11Speaker 01

  a few government programs and state to state, it's also different, where you can get reimbursements, stipends, et cetera, for care, or even reimbursements for yourself, taking time off work. That's a huge thing. Yeah. You know, if you're in the sandwich generation, you're often, you're caring for a parent, you're caring for a child, and you're having a job. Like, how do you do that? So I'll say, we at HFC have, we provide connections to care navigation services. So I will say like, that is a huge thing. Go to a professional who can help you. A social worker who can say, okay, this is your situation. Here's what's available to you. Here's things you can apply for. Anyone who is... If you're at the beginning, middle, and at any point, turning to a professional,

• 42:55Speaker 01

  a care navigator, social worker, they can really help.

• 42:58Michelle Obama?

  And remembering there is no shame in any of it. And I'm just glad that Nick is reaching out and, you know, asking for help. But it begins with making sure that families dealing with this situation start, as you said earlier, start to talk about it. Because you can't get help from something that you're hiding.

• 43:22Speaker 00

  No, and so, and it's uncomfortable. Like, the companionship thing is a very prevalent theme and comes up with a lot of people, as you would imagine. It is, in many ways, like the most awkward element.

• 43:35Craig Robinson?

  I can't even imagine.

• 43:36Speaker 00

  And, and, and it's like, my grandmother was, was in a home and my grandfather was in the same home, and she had like, a boyfriend, who I think wasn't real, but she would talk about him all the time.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Well, he lived in, he lived in California.

• 43:47Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  She was in Vancouver.

• 43:48Speaker 00

  She always wanted to go visit him in California.

• 43:50Michelle Obama?

  Was there a reason she needed to have him in the mid 90s?

• 43:53Speaker 01

  They were in their mid 90s, by the way.

• 43:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, they were just very old.

• 43:55Craig Robinson?

  She was trying to get his attention.

• 43:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. I think she was trying to make him jealous.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  They went on the greatest dates.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  Oh, they would, she would talk about it all the time. She would say dirty things. Yeah, it was, it was, it was wild, but.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  She was a funny lady.

• 44:06Speaker 00

  But it happens a lot, and, I mean, or it goes the other way, like with, with Lauren's father, if I may, like, you know, Lauren's mother was very advanced in her early onset, but also was very much alive. But he was very lonely, and, and, and his wife, as he knew her, was no longer there, and the companionship he wanted, and all that was no longer there. And so, we implored him to try to, to start dating, like, and, and that is like, also, like, again, it's such an awkward thing to breach, and it's an awkward situation to enter into with other women, as you're, as he's on JDate, trying to, trying to meet other women, and, and, and I remember there was a few, because it's like, he would say

• 44:51Speaker 00

  he was married in the application.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Well, I helped him, I helped him create his profile.

• 44:55Michelle Obama?

  It's like, you gotta work on the profile there.

• 44:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 44:58Michelle Obama?

  It's not gonna help you.

• 44:59Speaker 00

  You need an asterisk there.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  I think it was at the end and it was something like and and and reach out if you don't mind that my wife lives next door.

• 45:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  It was like, yeah, we explained the situation and and yeah, you know, he he went out with a few women at first that, you know, he has some funny stories that I guess I won't share, but. Why not? There was a woman who who picked him up and drove him. And then when they pulled into the parking spot, she pulled out her handicap sticker and he was like, oh, I didn't. And she was like, oh, it was my my my my deceased husband's sticker. And I still use it. It's fine. We've got some benefits.

• 45:34Speaker 00

  You know, like that.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  There was no second date there.

• 45:46Craig Robinson?

  Hey, everyone. Just want to let you know I'm back out here in LA and I'm having a wonderful time, especially since I'm staying at an Airbnb. I'm staying in one in West Hollywood and it is fabulous. The check in was easy. The hosts were great. They left us some nice gifts. Coincidentally, I happen to be out here when my daughter's out here and she was staying on her own away from her father, checked into a hotel until she found out she couldn't check in. So she came out and hung out with me in West Hollywood at my Airbnb. And let me tell you, when she saw it, I think she had second thoughts. So we got to hang out a little bit and we did a tour.

• 46:26Craig Robinson?

  And it's a three bedroom place. It's got a laundry. It's got a pool. It's got so so many nice amenities. And I told my daughter, I said, hey, listen, I know dad's square, but you can come stay with me for a couple of nights. I'm gonna be here till Friday. And she's like, no, I'll take. I she had her own work stuff and her business stuff. And I get it. I used to be a hotel guy myself, but lo and behold, guess what happened? Just this morning, my daughter called me and said, hey, dad, you mind if I come over and do some laundry? I said, of course. And she came over and we got to do. She did her laundry. We got to have coffee together, breakfast. It was fantastic. The next time I come to LA or practically anywhere I go nowadays,

• 47:09Craig Robinson?

  I'm gonna book an Airbnb because I can tell you it is so much nicer than staying at a hotel. And I just love the privacy. I love the room. And more importantly, I love the hospitality.

• 47:22Craig Robinson?

  This episode of IMO is also brought to you by Acorns. Acorns is a financial wellness app that makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future. You don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that matches you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now, even if all you've got is spare change. You know, one of the best pieces of money advice I've ever gotten is from my father, Fraser Robinson. Always pay yourself first, which means put some money away before you

• 48:04Craig Robinson?

  even start paying your bills. So sign up now and join the over 13 million all-time customers who have already saved and invested over $22 billion with Acorns. Plus, Acorns will boost your new account with a $20 bonus investment. Offer only available at acorns.com/imo. That's A-C-O-R-N-S dot com slash I-M-O to get your $20 bonus investment today. You don't have to be a Wall Street trader to invest. Acorns makes it easy for everyone. Paid non-client endorsement. Compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns.

• 48:49Craig Robinson?

  Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC, an SEC-registered investment advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com/imo. I love this time of year, but hosting during the holidays can be a bit of a challenge. So Kelly and I have collected a few hacks to make it a little bit easier. One of our favorite moves is an extendable dining room table. It's this great walnut color and it's mid-century modern, so it looks awesome in our space. And it even has extra storage in the legs. When we don't need the middle panels, we just slide them out and our space is back to how it was before.

• 49:32Craig Robinson?

  Things hosting Wayfair delivers high quality, customer trusted products for your home. So you can host and celebrate without the stress. Use filters, customer photos, and more than 20 million verified five star reviews to confidently find the right fit for your home. When refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 50:11Craig Robinson?

  This is a really interesting point that you bring up here because for Nick, he's seeing exactly what you folks saw.

• 50:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:22Craig Robinson?

  How can we help him, uh, help his dad?

• 50:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:26Craig Robinson?

  Because I think, I mean, hilarity for charity.

• 50:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:30Craig Robinson?

  What you've been through, you guys are right at the point where you can help Nick today.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:35Speaker 00

  It's, I don't know Nick's relationship with his dad, but I think some very blunt, honest conversations were

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Necessary.

• 50:43Speaker 00

  Necessary, painful, but necessary, and actually really moved things in a better direction.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:49Speaker 00

  Like in our family.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Definitely. Yeah, no, and there was, I mean, I remember that my dad and I certainly, you know, it wasn't all, you know, sunshine and rainbows every moment of this, no doubt. And, you know, certainly there was conflict. And there was one moment where we had deep conflict. And I was like, can you meet me at my therapist? And we had a joint session where we talked through everything. And that was really helpful to take time to listen to him and for him to take time to listen to me. And I think that, you know, like as the child, you have this sort of like ownership, right? Over your parents. It's like, well, it's like my mom and it's my dad. And it's, but it's like, but it was his partner.

• 51:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  And his spouse who was with him for, you know, over 40 years.

• 51:38Michelle Obama?

  Well, and you, you have the vision of what your life, how's it gonna end?

• 51:42Speaker 01

  I, of course, and my, my parents had, you know, my, my dad worked, he was the manager of a manufacturing plant. My mom taught elementary school. My parents were those people who were saving for this great retirement.

• 51:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  To travel, to, you know, to, to live that moment. And they, they didn't get it.

• 51:59Michelle Obama?

  All those sacrifices and, you know.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  And there's a lot of anger, you know, a lot of anger. But to go back to what I said a few minutes ago, you have to have acceptance. And that is, it is hard. I'm not saying it's easy. But to sort of remember where you are. So I think that for Nick, I would say for Nick and his dad, to join a support group.

• 52:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  To go on our website and fill out the form and they won't be in the same group because they're not in the same boat.

• 52:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's right.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  And to talk to other people who are in it in this moment. Honestly, just being seen helps lower the stress. It just does. And so that's the first thing I would say.

• 52:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. And as far as like the specifics of like his, you know, Nick's mother thinks she has a new boyfriend. Like, I mean, that would tell me probably that her dementia has progressed to a point where like.

• 52:56Michelle Obama?

  She's not the same person.

• 52:57Speaker 00

  She's not the same person. And yeah, and her father or his father should, again, I mean, should. It's easier said than done. It would probably behoove him to start accepting that and not trying to put her back into the box she used to be in, but rather make the hard, you know, choice to accept that it is different now and it won't ever be the same. And that's, you know, the romantic relationship they once had and that companionship is just not there in the way it used to be. And he can lament it and he could be resentful towards her and try to stop her from being around this guy who probably makes her happy.

• 53:41Speaker 00

  Or he could, or he could accept it and maybe do things for himself that offered him some sort of companionship or allowed him to move in a new direction rather than looking kind of backwards at what once was, you know?

• 53:56Michelle Obama?

  Well, it's a loss. It's a huge loss that you face every day. Every day. And it's, you know, harder than actual death because, you know.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  The person sitting right in front of you.

• 54:08Michelle Obama?

  Right there every day, you know, reminding you, I'm here, but. It's still a loss. I'm just curious in your therapy support groups. Is there a way to talk about that, you know, with with Nick's dad? Is it, does it help to equate it to a death that, you know, if she were actually physically gone, he would, you know, he would, he would be able to give himself the permission to to move on with life and to, you know, um, take the steps to keep living himself.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:40Michelle Obama?

  But I don't know if that's helpful.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  I mean, I think you just said such a key term, which is giving yourself permission. I think that caregivers, especially when they're caring for their their spouse and their parent, these people who are the the key influencers in their lives, it is so hard to put yourself first, but you have to. You have to know that that person loves you so much that they would want you to be taking care of yourself, themselves physically and mentally and, you know, and and Nick's dad is in such, such a brutal position, like, you know, and every day to have that anticipatory grief, which is, you know, whoo, so, so rough.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  Um, and to see this woman who he shared his life with and created a family with be different is, it is nearly impossible to accept that. But, you know, you have to, a lot of caregiving techniques stem from from improv, from from the simple, when you learn improv, the first thing they teach you is yes and. You know, when someone presents an idea, you don't shut it down. You say, yes, and that. And so when Nick's mom introduces her boyfriend and you want to put your head against the wall, you have to take a breath and be like, yes, that's your boyfriend. And also, here's your husband. And and we can all sit together and why don't we all have tea together and and, you know?

• 56:02Speaker 01

  It's this huge job to accept.

• 56:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, the word acceptance strikes me. A part of this is the acceptance can lead to really dealing with the grief and the loss. And then maybe for Nick, there's a chance to find the laughter in it, you know?

• 56:21Speaker 00

  Well, it sounds like him and his wife are having issues as well.

• 56:25Craig Robinson?

  I'm glad you said that, Seth, because I wanted to bring that up because so Nick's helping his dad.

• 56:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:32Craig Robinson?

  He's helping his mom and he's married and got kids and they're sort of going by the wayside. And I'm, I'm, I'm looking at the two of you and how you deal with it with humor and with pragmatism. And then you start this foundation. Nick doesn't have that. Any, any ideas for Nick that we can leave him with?

• 56:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:51Speaker 00

  Nick should go to therapy if he's not already going to therapy. I think that honestly, like that was, I mean, we were very young when all this started. We just started dating. We were both in our early twenties, basically. Um, and my, my whole family are social workers, essentially. My mother's a social worker. My sister is a social worker. I have my, one of my half brothers is a social worker. So I have, I, I come from a family steeped in talking about your feelings. My, my family can't stop talking about it.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  No, they cannot.

• 57:22Speaker 00

  As much as you would wish, they, they are incapable of that. I just knew I like was completely incapable of, of dealing with this. And I was just like, you, this is like a professional level of grief. You are, and, and something that you need to like have gone to school to understand how to navigate this kind of thing. And, and that was very helpful.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  Seth was the one that was like, I love you. I'm happy to, you know, hold you while you cry, but you need a professional. And, and I did, I really did, and, and it really helped. And I think that like having that type of person who has studied and knows how to navigate grief.

• 58:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  A professional.

• 58:02Speaker 00

  And they can go together and like, like we've talked like, just because I think there's like a stigma around like couples therapy. It means there's like a problem in your marriage or relationship or something, but like we've gone and talked to therapists together just about how to communicate about this stuff and how we can help each other and, and, and make each other's experience with it better, you know? And I think that has been very helpful.

• 58:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And I would also add that Nick and his dad have put his mom in a very safe situation. Where she feels comfortable enough to make a friend and, and, and find some happiness.

• 58:36Michelle Obama?

  That's a great sign.

• 58:37Speaker 01

  And so Nick should give himself the permission um to let his mom be there. And to go to his family and to not worry and not need to physically be there every day for, she is cared for. It sounds like she is well looked after. And so therefore he should take that time and not feel guilt to spend time with his own family. Cause I think that.

• 59:01Speaker 00

  That's the thing. I mean, you were was, I mean, there was a moment where it was just like, do I see her every day? Is it bad if I don't see her every day? Is it, can I take a few days off? Is it okay? Is it, it's for sure not the most fun thing to go do. So.

• 59:14Speaker 01

  Like when we were entering like year six, since my mom had walked or talked or spoken or cared for herself in any way. And that is exhausting. And it got to the point where I was like, I can't, I can't go every day. I can't go see her every day and, and she wouldn't want me to.

• 59:29Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  And, and I need to protect myself a little bit. And I think that Nick needs to honestly just be a little more selfish.

• 59:38Michelle Obama?

  Well, he's got to protect his kids.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:41Michelle Obama?

  You know, I mean, I shared that, you know, when mom was going through it, I, I hadn't shared with anybody because I was young when she was taking care of our elderly great aunt and uncle. I was in grammar school, you know, just sort of prime time and my mother was absent. And I resented it.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:00Michelle Obama?

  And I, I didn't resent her, but I. Resented the situation.

• 1:00:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:05Michelle Obama?

  Because, you know, here I was and maybe because Craig was a little older and in high school, probably at the time, you know, you.

• 1:00:12Craig Robinson?

  Driving and sort of independent.

• 1:00:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, it it it upturned our household.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:18Michelle Obama?

  Um, so I shared that because for Nick, he's got to think about his future, his family's future, the toll this is taking on his his child. Um, and that's not the example of aging.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:00:30Michelle Obama?

  That we want to put out there.

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  No, it's not. And I, and again, go back to like, I imagine it's not what his mother would want.

• 1:00:36Michelle Obama?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Like, I think that is such a huge thing that caregivers become so selfless that they forget that they are humans who are alive and living.

• 1:00:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  And need to experience joy as well.

• 1:00:51Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  And it isn't just about being a caregiver 24 7, because that will not help his mother also.

• 1:00:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. But I think it's like when you're miserable, it's it's sometimes easier to just be miserable.

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:01:02Speaker 00

  And I think people, it's hard to pull yourself out of it sometimes. And if he's just really sad because his mother's sick and he's just in it and his dad is unhappy and like, i- it's almost easier at times to hand yourself over to like the the miserable side of things than to try to be around your kids and wife and and and act like a happy, functional person, you know? Um, and I think that's something that, again, therapy can help a lot and prioritizing your relationship and making sure that, you know, you are communicating with your wife and you're you're talking about all this stuff and and and taking time, I mean, time is the thing that you just need.

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, just scheduling time for the things you love or just little things that help you. Like, my my, neither of my parents were big drinkers, but I remember like, you know, my dad was going through and he'd be like, ah, maybe pour myself a drink tonight. And I was like, have to.

• 1:01:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  Like, I remember one time, short of illegal drugs, do whatever you want.

• 1:01:58Speaker 00

  And if he wants some illegal drugs, I can help.

• 1:02:01Michelle Obama?

  And I've got this.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  I got this nice ceramic.

• 1:02:04Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:02:05Michelle Obama?

  Bong that'll, you know, help you out there.

• 1:02:07Speaker 00

  To make all that stuff. But yeah, it was, yeah, I think it's, I was so happy on days when. Lauren made the choice that she didn't have to go see her mother. Cause I was like, that's her prioritizing her own mental health. And she's not abandoning her mother. She sees them all the time. We moved them, you know, six blocks away from where we live. They were very close, but those days where I could just see she was like, I don't need to do this today and I'm going to actually maybe try to enjoy myself today.

• 1:02:34Michelle Obama?

  Well, and if you talk about brain health, your brain health, you know, when there is a genetic, you know, predisposition.

• 1:02:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:43Michelle Obama?

  It, it becomes increasingly more important for the family members of people with Alzheimer's to focus on self-care for their longevity.

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yes. Depression is not good for the brain.

• 1:02:54Michelle Obama?

  Depression and sleeplessness and being distraught and upset. You know, not taking the time to get the sleep blanket and the cold sheets and the meditation and all of it. It's just the irony of this disease that, you know, you, you may be closely linked to it because of the genetic DNA, but that means that you can't lose yourself in the caretaking because you need to focus, because there is prevention.

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:03:24Michelle Obama?

  There are things you can do.

• 1:03:25Speaker 01

  That is the hope, right? Like someone is diagnosed and like, unfortunately, like there is still really nothing that will stop, prevent or cure this disease. Other than living a brain healthy lifestyle may prevent it, may delay it. Four out of 10 cases might be delayed or prevented. That's a lot.

• 1:03:44Michelle Obama?

  That's a lot.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  And so, you know, and I spent a lot of years, a lot of time with anger and depression. And don't get me wrong, I still do. I'm a human.

• 1:03:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  But, but at the same time, I have to remember, like, I have to think of myself and the things that are going to keep me healthy. Because we need to do that in order to, to hopefully grow old, which is the goal, right?

• 1:04:07Craig Robinson?

  So that's terrific segue here because.

• 1:04:14Craig Robinson?

  We'd like to give Nick something, some tips that would make the sort of, give him the power to be the best version of himself and his family. And I've just jotted down a few things you all talked about.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  What's on the list?

• 1:04:29Craig Robinson?

  So.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  What do we say?

• 1:04:30Craig Robinson?

  The first one is meet them where they're at.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:35Craig Robinson?

  Slash acceptance.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:36Craig Robinson?

  That was big.

• 1:04:37Speaker 00

  Don't yell, don't, don't try to convince your mom she doesn't have a new boyfriend.

• 1:04:41Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 1:04:41Speaker 00

  She, in her head, she does. Now you got two dads for a little while.

• 1:04:46Craig Robinson?

  And what I love about this is you, we always say, meet people where they're at.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:52Craig Robinson?

  Except when they're sick.

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:55Craig Robinson?

  You know, we're always trying to fix it. So I love that. The second one I have here is care for yourself for the caregiver.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely.

• 1:05:06Speaker 00

  Especially like if his mother is in a home, they're feeding her, there are people watching her. Like, there's, there's not much you need to be doing.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  There were times that I, I literally would stop and I would see my mom for five minutes. I'd walk in, I'd kiss her on the head, I'd say a thing or two, I'd squeeze her hand, and then I left. Because that was all I could take, and that felt like enough to remind her she is loved. I feel like we're together. And in a way, like Nick could make a schedule. You know, as Seth said, like she is cared for. He doesn't have to go every day. He doesn't have to go five times a week. He could go twice a week, once a week, whatever works, so that he is also there to show up for his family.

• 1:05:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:44Craig Robinson?

  Mm-hmm. And the next one I have here is seek helpful resources. Turn to the professionals. And that goes with the next one is the family therapy, joining a support group. I think that's all one big category.

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  Definitely. And, and we at HFC can, can help point you in the right direction. There are a lot of services out there that are there to help people navigate through this. You, you really don't have to do it alone. It is such an isolating thing to care for a loved one with dementia. But it doesn't have to be.

• 1:06:17Craig Robinson?

  And one last thing, which you both hit on, that we experienced with our mom is, what would your mom want?

• 1:06:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:28Craig Robinson?

  And, and that's something that we can all do for our family members. Doesn't have to just be children, but the people who are gonna be here after we're gone. Let them know what you want. It takes the pressure off.

• 1:06:40Michelle Obama?

  Let's talk about death.

• 1:06:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. We're such a youth obsessed culture, like ignoring death doesn't do anyone any favors.

• 1:06:48Speaker 00

  No. And, and if Nick, again, like, yeah, a good thing for Nick to think is if he has the choice between going and visiting his mom and spending time with his wife, asking himself, what would my mom want me to do in this situation?

• 1:07:00Michelle Obama?

  And as he said, she thinks he's an asshole.

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  Exactly. She doesn't wanna see him anyway. Hang out with your wife. Who hopefully doesn't also think you're an asshole.

• 1:07:11Michelle Obama?

  Don't let it get to that point where she should think you're an asshole, Nick.

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  Nick, we think you're wonderful. Yes.

• 1:07:17Michelle Obama?

  So take your wife out.

• 1:07:19Speaker 00

  Exactly. Take your wife out on, on, on the town in Miami. Lots of stuff to do there. Lots of good restaurants.

• 1:07:26Michelle Obama?

  Well, you guys are doing some great work and, you know, thank you for sharing. Thank you for the investment that you're making. Um, thank you for your vulnerability and your honesty. Um, because that's also, you know, normalizing the issue as much as it is not normal and will never feel normal, but talking about it and letting people know that they're not alone. And again, you know, I just wanna say, let's not be afraid of humor in the midst of this. I mean, it gets our family through.

• 1:07:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, we found that that was like, at first, we were very uncomfortable with the combination of comedy and Alzheimer's, honestly. And it felt very inorganic. And, and then, yeah, we found that people coming and telling their stories and, and, and keeping a humorous perspective amidst all this is like so cathartic and helpful and and people like to laugh and can shift gears very easily and can contain both of those things at once. And so, yeah, humor, humor is helpful. I don't know if it's the best medicine, but it's it's a pretty good one.

• 1:08:32Craig Robinson?

  I tell you what, thank you guys for being here. This has been great.

• 1:08:36Speaker 00

  Thank you so much.

• 1:08:37Michelle Obama?

  Good luck with everything. Yeah.

• 1:08:39Craig Robinson?

  And safe travels.

• 1:08:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, be well, be well.

• 1:09:04Craig Robinson?

  This episode is brought to you by Cologuard. I knew that I shouldn't delay screening for colon cancer and Cologuard has made that process one million times easier for all of us. I just answered a few questions about my age and medical history and once their licensed clinician determined I was eligible, they issued the prescription and the Cologuard Plus kit was sent right to my home. No doctor's office visit necessary. For me, there was just immediate relief in getting it done. It cost me $0 with my insurance. It took me truly 15 minutes and now I can rest easier knowing I screened properly. Plus, if you get a negative result,

• 1:09:44Craig Robinson?

  you generally don't need a repeat Cologuard test for three years. If you're 45 or older and at average risk, it's time to screen for colon cancer, even if you feel perfectly healthy. And Cologuard Plus gives you an option you can use right at home. Talk to your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with Cologuard or request it online today at Cologuard.com where they have an easy telehealth option. Don't wait. Cologuard products are intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use if you have had a personal history of colorectal cancer or polyps, have inflammatory bowel disease, a family history of colorectal cancer, or certain hereditary syndromes, or a positive result from another colon cancer screening method within that test recommended screening interval. Cologuard results should be interpreted with caution

• 1:10:29Craig Robinson?

  as false positives and false negatives do occur. Available by prescription only.