How to Train Your Dragon

Disney has been remaking its animated classics for years to great financial success – Lilo & Stitch has been dominating the box office for weeks now. So it's no surprise that DreamWorks is now getting in on the action with a remake of How to Train Your Dragon. It's full of epic battles, majestic countrysides and, of course, dragons galore. Follow Pop Culture Happy Hour on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/nprpopculture https://letterboxd.com/nprpopculture/ See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

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• 0:00Speaker 00

  This message comes from Capella University. That spark you feel? That's your drive for more. Capella University's FlexPath learning format lets you earn your degree at your pace without putting life on pause. Learn more at capella.edu.

• 0:19Stephen Thompson?

  Disney has been remaking its animated classics for years to great financial success. Lilo and Stitch has been dominating the box office for weeks now. So it's no surprise that DreamWorks is now getting in on the action with a remake of How to Train Your Dragon. It's full of epic battles, majestic countrysides, and of course, dragons galore. I'm Stephen Thompson. Joining me today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour is Regina Barber. She's a host and reporter for NPR's science podcast, Short Wave. Hey Regina. Hey Stephen. Also with us is Jordan Morris. He's a writer and the co-host of the podcast's Jordan Jesse Go and Free with Ads. Hey, Jordan.

• 0:56Speaker 02

  Hey, it's good to be here.

• 0:57Stephen Thompson?

  It is a pleasure to have you both. So if your memory doesn't extend all the way back to the bygone days of 2010, How to Train Your Dragon was a hugely successful animated film about a boy named Hiccup. He's the son of a fierce Viking leader named Stoic. And in typical animated movie fashion, Hiccup doesn't want to follow in his father's footsteps, which in this case would mean protecting his remote island home from marauding dragons. Hiccup is more of an artistic inventor type, which puts him at odds with not only his father, but, well, everyone. Soon, Hiccup finds a wounded dragon he names Toothless and learns that killing dragons isn't so necessary after all. Both the live-action and animated movie versions of How to Train Your Dragon tell essentially

• 1:39Stephen Thompson?

  identical stories, which are adaptations of a book series. Both feature Gerard Butler as Hiccup's father Stoic. Writer-director Dean DeBloa also co-wrote and co-directed the original animated How to Train Your Dragon. So the primary difference, besides the notably longer runtime, is that animation has given way to live action, with Mason Fames taking on the role of Hiccup.

• 2:00Speaker 03

  I don't want to fight dragons.

• 2:02Speaker 04

  Come on. Yes, you do.

• 2:04Speaker 03

  No, let me rephrase. I can't kill dragons.

• 2:08Speaker 04

  But you will.

• 2:09Stephen Thompson?

  The new version is in theaters now. Jordan, I'm going to start with you. What did you think of How to Train Your Dragon?

• 2:14Speaker 02

  Yes, I'm a fan of these movies. I'm a fan of the animated trilogy. I think I've seen them all, probably all on planes.

• 2:23Stephen Thompson?

  To truly capture the scope and majesty.

• 2:25Speaker 05

  That's how you know you love them. They feel so much better then.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Right. I just want to make sure that I cry. I want to make sure that I cry so I get that altitude. I'm in the pocket for these because I am a cat weirdo.

• 2:36Stephen Thompson?

  Oh, me too, bud.

• 2:37Speaker 05

  Oh, same.

• 2:37Stephen Thompson?

  Oh, my God, we're with Regina Barber.

• 2:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, four cats.

• 2:40Stephen Thompson?

  Biggest cat weirdo at NPR.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  Uh, if my cat bug is listening, hi, honey. Daddy loves you. And, and the, the dragon, the main dragon in this Toothless is very cat coded. It like acts like a cat. It has like cat mannerisms. So like, I'm in the pocket. I love these. Yeah. So I like this story and I like these characters, but it is just very hard not to watch this movie without asking the question, why? Why are we doing this? Why are we remaking these animated movies in live action, basically shot for shot? I like the characters. I like the world, but it was tough not to be distracted by the question of why am I watching this?

• 3:18Stephen Thompson?

  So it's a live action remake of an animated film is what you're saying?

• 3:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:22Stephen Thompson?

  I feel like that's the process. Every time we convene to talk about a remake of an animated film is like,

• 3:27Speaker 05

  Why?

• 3:27Stephen Thompson?

  Why?

• 3:27Speaker 05

  Because it's shot for shot, it makes me think of like a high school doing like cabaret or something like we don't go to a high school to watch like a Broadway show and be like, this is where it's gonna be good. You know what I mean? Like, why? I watched the animated movie a few years after. I didn't see it in the theaters a few years after it came out. And I saw it with my daughter and we really liked it. And I think it was like a near perfect animated, you know, like it was quick, it was clear, it was emotional. I don't know why anyone who liked the animation would want to watch this, but if you haven't watched the animation, it's an okay movie.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  And especially with this property, right? Like it's in a world that has a rich history. You can tell the humans and the dragons have been fighting for centuries. There's obviously like room to tell the story after the last animated movie. So it is weird. Like if you wanted to make a live action, one of these, not to just tell a different story in the world. I mean, obviously I think the answer is we know this movie worked once, so it'll probably work again. So it's just an easier financial bet for people, but just like, Creatively, I would want to see a live action story set in this world. It just felt pointless to watch the same one over again.

• 4:39Speaker 05

  A different story.

• 4:40Stephen Thompson?

  Yeah, there is a sense like, write a new story.

• 4:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:43Stephen Thompson?

  This is a pretty rich vein of storytelling. I liked all three animated films. I'm kind of left posing that same question of why. Now, at the same time, I had the experience watching this film. You know, I watched it on a, you know, giant IMAX screen. I was sitting there like, this is such a great story. These are such great characters. I think, Jordan, you hit the nail on the head. The fact that the dragon is cat coded does lead me to love it more.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  It might be a Rorschach dragon where no matter what pet you have, you see your pet. Maybe the bird weirdos see it as a big bird.

• 5:18Stephen Thompson?

  It's like a big ferret with wings.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:20Speaker 05

  The writer actually said he did focus dragons to be cat coded. This is lore.

• 5:25Stephen Thompson?

  So at the same time that we're sitting here and kind of vexed by this question of why, right?

• 5:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:30Stephen Thompson?

  At the same time, I watched this film and I enjoyed it enormously. Why did I enjoy it enormously? Because I love this story. I love the original film. I love these characters. I love the dragons. I love the message. I think the message of this film that we should take a step back and consider nonviolent approaches to the challenges we face is a really powerful one and a really poignant one. And I find these films very poignant that way. I've watched a lot of these live action remakes. We say live action, but there is so much CGI.

• 6:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, it does almost feel like it's just you're watching a different kind of animation.

• 6:07Stephen Thompson?

  Totally.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  I've got an old guy take here, if you would permit one.

• 6:10Stephen Thompson?

  Would I turn down an old guy take?

• 6:12Speaker 02

  That would be pretty hypocritical of you, I realize.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  You know, how cool would this have been with some Henson puppets?

• 6:21Speaker 05

  I agree.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  That seems like that's the creative reason to do it in live action, right? Like have a tangible, touchable thing instead of just, yeah.

• 6:32Stephen Thompson?

  So I should clarify, they did use some puppetry. It's kind of a mix of puppetry and CGI, but frankly, to my eyes, it all looks like CGI.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:39Speaker 05

  This made me think, just watching the trailers, made me think of Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Rabbit.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:43Speaker 05

  And it made me think about how the original was CG. It was, you know, so like they're just putting people into the animated movie. And it just seemed very uncanny valley and it just seemed very like weird. And I feel like if you're gonna do something live action, I agree with you. I didn't even think of the puppets, but like Who Framed Roger Rabbit was good because one, it was an original story. They were completely different. It was like 2D animation and people. It was very clear that it was two different things.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:13Speaker 05

  And this is like, I don't know, they're too close and it's too close to like just inserting humans into an animated movie. It, I didn't like that part.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  There are some videos of like, um, I think it's at Universal Studios. There are like, they've dressed up some of those brobots to look like Toothless and some of the other dragons.

• 7:30Speaker 05

  Yeah. Oh, I've seen it.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  And they walk around the park and they look so cool. And it's like, I don't know, should that have been the approach to remaking this? Like have physical tangible things? I don't know. It seemed like if that was the pitch, I'd be more likely to go along with it.

• 7:44Stephen Thompson?

  Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes you get a sense when you're watching these films that you're just watching like tech demonstrations.

• 7:49Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 7:50Stephen Thompson?

  And I've had that reaction to some kind of later period Pixar movies where like this movie exists to show me that you know how to animate water better. But you're not necessarily bothering to tell me a great story. I agree with what you're saying. I'm glad you brought up Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Regina, because

• 8:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:07Stephen Thompson?

  there are examples of like early special effects driven properties, you know, that are now 40 years old, but still look state of the art because that technology is deployed really creatively. The video for Aha's Take on Me

• 8:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:22Stephen Thompson?

  still looks amazing to me because it's creative.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Safe place for old guy takes.

• 8:28Stephen Thompson?

  You want an old guy take, let's talk about Aha. You know, that element of this film, you know, the, the fact that it quote unquote, looks better or it looks more realistic or, you know, it incorporates the, you know, these effects that they, maybe they didn't have access to all of this effects technology 15, in the olden days of 2010.

• 8:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:45Stephen Thompson?

  It's not necessarily deploying those effects to any creative end beyond making a recreation of an existing movie. The feeling I had over and over again, watching this film, was wow, this cover band kicks ass. At some point, you do, as a viewer, need to sort of take a step back and be like, okay, what is this trying to do? What is the creative swing here? What are they aiming for? And like, what they're aiming to do is create a live-action recreation of an animated movie. Basically, it's if you love How to Train Your Dragon, but hate animation.

• 9:20Speaker 05

  Or you think animation is too childish.

• 9:22Stephen Thompson?

  To me, I think that's completely ridiculous, because animation is incredible.

• 9:26Speaker 05

  Right.

• 9:26Stephen Thompson?

  And the animated film managed to tell this story in under an hour and 40 minutes, whereas this movie is more than two hours.

• 9:36Speaker 05

  It's so much longer for no reason, scene by scene, yet still longer.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  It is a weird time vortex, isn't it? It feels like the exact same movie, but longer? I haven't seen the original in a minute, but I'm kind of struggling to remember like, what was added.

• 9:50Stephen Thompson?

  There are a few scenes that are added. There are also just scenes that take longer. You know, and some of these battle sequences are definitely fleshed out. You know, where you're able to shorthand some things with animation that you kind of, just in terms of sheer physics,

• 10:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:04Stephen Thompson?

  wind up having to kind of put more on the screen. You know, Regina could explain the physics far better than I could.

• 10:10Speaker 05

  It's basically like, in animation, things are so simplified.

• 10:13Stephen Thompson?

  Right.

• 10:14Speaker 05

  I think there's fewer things on the screen. So you can actually tell a story and you can kind of have the viewer focus on something that's happening. But when something is more realistic, I think there's too much going on, too, that you actually have to put in actual words, like dialogue, to explain what you're seeing. I think that's what's happening, too. And, but I agree with Stephen, like, you know, if you want something to look like it's actual, real-world physics, you probably do have to add in some more movement and stuff like that, and that's probably gonna take time.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  And, you know, maybe worth talking about the source material a little bit. I agree with you, Stephen. I do love the message of this movie, and I think it's a really great message for now. And I think that's maybe a good argument for like, why put this movie out again? The like, empathy and the kind of like, get to know the thing that you fear, rather than attack it. It is great. And, you know, it is a movie where the main character's asking the question, why do we have to kill dragons? The third act is killing a big dragon.

• 11:12Stephen Thompson?

  Well, that dragon needed to be killed, Jordan.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  That's right. Yeah. Understand all dragons, except the one that is bad.

• 11:19Speaker 05

  You know, why did they get rid of the catnip scene, too? They changed the catnip scene to be this dandelion scene. And I was like, was that too close to like?

• 11:28Stephen Thompson?

  Right. Yeah. I mean, I think they saw an opportunity to create a beautiful visual. Like this kind of field of dandelion spores was really lovely. And I really looked at it like, oh, that's a very pretty scene. I could see a still of that and be like, oh, what a beautiful shot.

• 11:43Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 11:43Stephen Thompson?

  You know, because it's the same kind of writer, director revisiting this. You know, there's one thing that I was kind of seeing recurring in interviews with him, where he's talking about like, I just saw opportunities to flesh some things out. I saw opportunities to make it a deeper, richer story. And obviously, he's trying to sell you on this new project. But I'm sure that in 15 years, he's thought, oh, I should have done that with dandelion spores. Is probably what's happening there.

• 12:08Speaker 05

  I have a question. Have either of you read the books? Because I haven't, and I didn't know if the books were like scene for scene to the animated movie.

• 12:17Stephen Thompson?

  It's loosely adapted from the books.

• 12:20Speaker 05

  So why didn't they do the live action related more to the book then? And then it's like the world and it would have been more interesting.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. That's a kind of a good reason to remake it. Yeah, you're right.

• 12:30Stephen Thompson?

  They certainly could have found a different approach to the material than just retelling it accurately.

• 12:36Speaker 05

  I just want to make the comment that like, I know they picked the main guy because he like, he seems very Hiccup like and he looks like Hiccup.

• 12:43Stephen Thompson?

  You're talking about Mason Thames?

• 12:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, Mason Thames. They picked Mason Thames because, you know, he looked like Hiccup. Maybe he sounds like Hiccup. But for me, it really, really felt like High School Musical, Disney, generic guy that goes in there. No, you know, shade to him. He did his best. But like, it just seems so generic to me, like, like a TV movie.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  I felt similarly. I think the new cast, they're all good actors, charm to spare on everybody.

• 13:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, agreed.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  I felt like they did not nail the comedy. I think this is a very funny script. And like, you really realize that those original voice actors. Actors were all comedy pros, right? It's America Ferrera, it's Kristen Wiig, it's Jay Baruchel. Like, people who know how to juice a joke, you know?

• 13:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  The new kids are are good and they're charming, but like, they are acting like they're in a Netflix YA show where they're all werewolves or have terminal illnesses or something. I don't know what those are about. But yeah, it does seem like everybody's kind of in the wrong movie, especially when it comes to the to the comedy.

• 13:45Stephen Thompson?

  So you're not clamoring for more DreamWorks movies to be remade as live action? You don't want to see a live action Shrek? You don't want a live action Kung Fu Panda? You don't want a live action B movie?

• 13:54Speaker 05

  Shrek has a musical. I will say I did, you know, Stephen, we saw each other for Minecraft, and I actually did like that, but that wasn't word for word. That was in a new world.

• 14:04Stephen Thompson?

  Oh, boy.

• 14:05Speaker 05

  And it was ridiculous, and everyone was committed to the ridiculousness.

• 14:08Stephen Thompson?

  That's why you hire Jack Black. You want commitment to the bit.

• 14:11Speaker 05

  And Jason Momoa.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  I I have not seen that movie, but I gather the story is like, real humans enter video game. And let's like, that has a reason to be half live action, half. As it as it Roger Rabbit, like, that's like the best story reason to use that tech. Right? As opposed to just like, we want to redo a movie and make more money. It's like, yeah, I think there is a world where you can like, have these humans in these animated worlds, and it will look cool and make sense story wise. But yeah, this just didn't have that reason.

• 14:42Speaker 05

  I do want to say one thing I did like about the movie.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  Oh, please.

• 14:44Speaker 05

  There's colorblind casting, and they actually explained why that was. And they were like, look, there's all these people from all over the world, and we all settled here together to like defeat these dragons. And I was like, great, they explained it, let's move on.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, and one line, too. I also appreciated that because you knew that's, you know, I imagine that could be something people would complain about online. And they're just like, here is a story reason for this.

• 15:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  And yeah, and it totally does make the movie better. I like seeing like, all kinds of Vikings in the little Viking town. It was very cool.

• 15:14Stephen Thompson?

  I thought it was a very good cover band.

• 15:16Speaker 05

  I agree with you. Out of all the live action things I've seen, I think it's one of the better ones. I just don't know why.

• 15:21Stephen Thompson?

  I gotta say, it's maybe my favorite live action remake that I have seen yet.

• 15:25Speaker 05

  Mine's Cinderella.

• 15:26Stephen Thompson?

  Yeah, I just wish they would stop making them.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  I hadn't seen any of them. This was my first one, so.

• 15:32Stephen Thompson?

  Oh, well, the bar has been set higher than.

• 15:35Speaker 05

  Don't watch any other ones.

• 15:36Stephen Thompson?

  Most of these movies will clear. All right, well, we want to know what you think about How to Train Your Dragon. Find us on Facebook at facebook.com/PCHH and on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/NPRPopCulture. We'll have a link in our episode description. Up next, what is making us happy this week?

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• 17:31Stephen Thompson?

  Now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week. What's making us happy this week? Jordan Morris, what's making you happy this week, buddy?

• 17:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like to recommend comic books in this segment, so I'm gonna do it again.

• 17:42Stephen Thompson?

  Yeah.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  I just recently read a great book called The Last Mermaid by Derek Kirk Kim, written and drawn by. Here's the pitch, it's great. It's about a lone mermaid who has to survive a post-apocalyptic wasteland by piloting a mech suit filled with water.

• 17:58Stephen Thompson?

  Wow.

• 17:58Speaker 02

  That's the greatest pitch of all time. It's like the greatest one-sentence pitch. The comic itself is like even better. The mermaid has this little axolotl that follows her around. It's very cute. She meets all these kind of crazy post-apocalyptic characters as she's doing her adventure. It's this really like beautiful book. It's the comics or the collection, if you get that, are like kind of a bigger format. So it's kind of like this widescreen comics. The story is mostly wordless, so you know, it's kind of told through action and gestures and expressions. And I think it'd be a great thing to read with like a kid who's into sci-fi. So yeah, it's called The Last Mermaid by Derek Kirk Kim, and it's great.

• 18:37Stephen Thompson?

  Jordan, do you think that this comic book should be made into an animated movie that is then remade into a live-action movie?

• 18:44Speaker 02

  10 years later, yes.

• 18:47Stephen Thompson?

  Thank you, Jordan Morris. Regina Barber, what's making you happy this week?

• 18:50Speaker 05

  Jordan, I love that. I'm gonna check it out. But what I'm gonna suggest today that's making me happy is the new season of The Amazing Race, which is the first time I've ever watched The Amazing Race all the way through.

• 19:01Stephen Thompson?

  Oh my gosh, Regina!

• 19:03Speaker 05

  Yes, and I've heard it's a better season than the other one, so I'm really happy this is how I'm introduced.

• 19:08Stephen Thompson?

  It's a strong season, there are better.

• 19:09Speaker 05

  Well, okay, you gotta suggest which other ones I should watch. But my daughter was really into it, and my partner, we all watched it as a family. And the whole time, we're just like, you know, picking our favorites. We're going, you know, to Asia soon on a trip, so we just really, really enjoyed it. I really loved The Amazing Race, almost to a point where my daughter was like, "You should apply, I'll make the video for you." So I would suggest on Paramount+, we watched it this season of The Amazing Race.

• 19:38Stephen Thompson?

  Thank you, Regina Barber. I usually recommend- When tasked with speaking about what's making me happy and what is making me happy is this fantastic new artist, fantastic new album. The artist is named Anastasia, and that's A-N-N-A-H-Stasia. She's a Nigerian-American, LA folk jazz pop soul singer, probably best known right now for starring in Kendrick Lamar's Luther video, Luther featuring SZA. But what Kendrick Lamar should have done is sung with Anastasia because her voice is absolutely gorgeous. This song is called "Overflow."

• 20:33Stephen Thompson?

  This record is just moving through a lot of different vibes. There's a blues rock vibe, there's a jazz vibe. At one point, there's a spoken word song that brings in Aja Monet. I love this record. She's got a gorgeous voice. I keep coming back to it. The album is called Tether. My favorite song on the album is called "Overflow," but honestly, they're all great. That's the great Anastasia, my favorite musical discovery of the week, and that is what is making me happy. If you want links for what we recommended, plus some more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter at npr.org/popculturenewsletter. That brings us to the end of our show. Jordan Morris, Regina Barber, thanks so much for being here.

• 21:13Speaker 05

  Thank you, Stephen.

• 21:14Stephen Thompson?

  Yeah, thanks for having me. This was a blast. This episode was produced by Hafsa Fathema, Liz Metzger, and Mike Katzif, and edited by our showrunner Jessica Reedy. Hello, Cummin provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next week.