Welcome To The Clam Capital Of America

Summer is here, and for years, Dan has spent part of his summer in New England visiting family and friends. This week he’s visiting two New England summer institutions. First is Woodman’s—known as the place where fried clams were invented—in Essex, Massachusetts, the clam capital of America.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dan Pashman?

  If you're the kind of person who plans vacations around where you're gonna eat, Scottsdale belongs on your list. And look, whenever I go somewhere, my priority is on eating things that are the specialties of that region, eating things that I can't get at home. So when I'm in that area, I'm looking for the specialties of the region, like authentic southwestern and Native American flavors, modern Mexican cuisine, and as basic as it sounds, homemade, fresh flour tortillas. There's nothing like it, and you can't get them like that in the Northeast. And there is such a farm-to-table culture in Scottsdale, inspired by the Sonoran Desert. Everything is so fresh, the peppers, the spices, it is so vibrant. And Scottsdale's just got a great vibe. It's one of those places where breakfast becomes brunch, happy hour turns into dinner, and every patio has another amazing view.

• 0:45Dan Pashman?

  And explore Old Town Scottsdale between meals, or relax at a spa after brunch. From award-winning and James Beard-recognized chefs to neighborhood gems and nationally acclaimed restaurants, every meal in Scottsdale tells a story. So come hungry and leave with new favorite restaurants. Start planning your next culinary getaway at experiencescottsdale.com. I grew up on Lando Lake's cheese. I still remember going to the supermarket deli counter with my mom and her ordering Lando Lake's American cheese. And now, Lando Lake's cheese and butter are a huge part of my home. There are so many easy weeknight recipes using Lando Lake's cheese and butter that bring delicious restaurant taste right to your table. From chicken parm to weeknight shrimp pad Thai, Lando Lake's has plenty of quick dishes that'll have the whole dinner table talking.

• 1:28Dan Pashman?

  Visit landolakes.com/reцепes/collection for easy weeknight dinners.

• 1:47Dan Pashman?

  How long have you been coming here?

• 1:49Speaker 01

  Oh, years and years and years. Can't even remember.

• 1:53Dan Pashman?

  Okay. Decades, right?

• 1:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  I've been coming since I moved to Boston, which is about 40 years ago.

• 1:59Dan Pashman?

  What is your go-to order here?

• 2:00Speaker 02

  Fish sandwich and chowder. And I've discovered an important fact, you have to eat the fish sandwich first, because otherwise the chowder is so full of taste, it makes the fish sandwich seem kind of less tasty.

• 2:11Speaker 03

  I went on my first date with my boyfriend at Woodman's.

• 2:13Dan Pashman?

  Are there any specific memories or like people who come to mind when you come here? No, I'm coming. Freezing on the fish. Okay. You don't even know who you're with, right?

• 2:23Dan Pashman?

  You had a school field trip to Woodman's?

• 2:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, in second grade. We learned how to do like fried onion rings.

• 2:29Dan Pashman?

  That's like such a quintessentially Essex field trip. Yeah.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  I should say too that our family have a chowder rating system. So we can each try the chowder wherever we are and we rate it one to 10. And Woodman's has consistently rated nine on that scale, which is like the only place better is if you're bicycling in the rain in Nova Scotia and you find a chowder place.

• 2:54Dan Pashman?

  This is the Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. Summer is here, my friends, and for years I've spent part of my summer in New England, visiting family and friends. So today we have two stories from New England's summer institutions. Later, I'll go to Grace Church on Martha's Vineyard, which has some of my favorite lobster rolls of all time. But while I was there, I found out something shocking about these very special lobster rolls. That's what we in the business call a tease. But first, I head to Essex, Mass, about 45 minutes north of Boston. A lot of people consider this region to be the clam capital of America. Essex and its neighbor Ipswich are in the heart of the Great Marsh, New England's largest contiguous salt marsh.

• 3:38Dan Pashman?

  These wetlands and their tidal rivers flow to the ocean, and the mud flats under these waterways are pretty much every clam's dream home. So it makes sense that Essex would be the home to a Massachusetts landmark called Woodman's, which is also known as the place where fried clams were invented. When I arrived, I met the CEO, Steve Woodman.

• 3:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, this is family business that my grandfather started 111 years ago. And it's part of, actually, kind of who I am.

• 4:06Dan Pashman?

  How long have you had this job?

• 4:11Speaker 04

  Started working when I was in the sixth grade, full-time, at least during the summers. My goodness, I was 62.

• 4:18Dan Pashman?

  Do the math.

• 4:22Dan Pashman?

  Woodman's is a clapboard building, old wooden tables inside, picnic tables outside, looking out on an expanse of tall grass dotted by tidal ponds. It started with Steve's grandfather, Lawrence Woodman, who everyone knew as Chubby. He was on his own from a young age and found one of his first jobs in an upscale estate called Beverly Farms, where he was the driver for the lady of the house. And by driver, I mean he drove a horse-drawn carriage. That's how long ago this was. After that, Chubby got a job driving a trolley car, which came through Essex.

• 4:50Speaker 04

  So he got familiar with the seashore. He saw people clamming. He actually met his future wife, my grandmother, on the trolley. And from that meeting, they got married. And he decided that in his time off, he wanted to dig some clams to earn some extra money. But back then, you know, clams weren't worth much.

• 5:11Dan Pashman?

  Clams today sell for 20 times more than they did then, even adjusted for inflation. Tell me about Chubby and Bessie, just like as people, as your grandparents. Like, what are some of your memories of them?

• 5:22Speaker 04

  He was the first person that brought me downriver and taught me how to clam. It was hard work. I was just a young boy at the time, but he liked to take all his grandsons out clamming. And that's the first love of the river that I got, where you could hop in the boat and he liked to drive a fast boat. And he would twirl around the river and so forth. And it was, that was a fun time.

• 5:45Dan Pashman?

  I've been clamming a couple of times. It's still a pretty primitive process. You just have this giant, like a metal rake that's got like a sort of a claw part and a basket part. You take that thing, you use the claw part to dig a little bit, you pick the basket up, and hopefully there's clams in it. When people use the expression digging clams, that's not like just an expression. You're digging.

• 6:05Speaker 04

  You are digging. It's all by hand.

• 6:07Dan Pashman?

  Is the process today roughly the same as what your grandfather taught you?

• 6:10Speaker 04

  It's exactly the same. I think they have made some of the forks a little bit wider, having more tongue, so they can flip more mud.

• 6:19Dan Pashman?

  You can cover more ground.

• 6:19Speaker 04

  So you can dig more mud.

• 6:21Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 6:21Speaker 04

  If you can handle it.

• 6:25Dan Pashman?

  But so far, AI is not coming for the clam diggers.

• 6:28Speaker 04

  No, it's not.

• 6:30Dan Pashman?

  In 1914, Chubby and Bessie opened a small concession stand where they sold fresh clams and some groceries. Chubby also started experimenting with some new kitchen gear.

• 6:39Speaker 04

  He got up deep fat fry later and he started making his homemade potato chips. And people loved his homemade potato chips. It was actually early July in 1916. A friend of his said, "Hey, Chubby, if you take some of those clams and you throw them in that fry later," he says, "I think people will like them." Well, the other people hanging around kind of laughed at him. You know, who wants to pay for fried clams? You know, who wants to eat fried clams? But my grandmother, Bessie, said, "You know, like, try that." Because they used to pan fry them home.

• 7:11Dan Pashman?

  And in fact, a lot of people pan fried clams at home around this time. But according to the restaurant's lore, Woodman's was the first to deep fry them.

• 7:19Speaker 04

  And so they had corn flour, they evaporated milk, so they did that, put it in and threw them in the fry later to see how they fried up. And they fried up really quick and they liked them. They were delicious. And so that was on July 3. And so the next day was July 4. And there was a parade in town, whatever. So he put a A-frame sign out on the road, Essex Fried Clams. People came in. They loved them. He took in $35 that day in 1916, which was the most he'd ever taken in since he'd been open. So he was a smart man. He decided to keep them on the menu.

• 7:53Dan Pashman?

  Chubby knew he was on to something big. How do we know that? Well, he put it in his journal, which the Woodmans still have. And Chubby didn't write in his journal every day. It wasn't one of these like Dear Diary kind of things. He only put the really big stuff in the journal. And just below, memories from his wedding and his sons being born, he wrote, "We fried the first fried clam in Essex, July 3, 1916." He became known as the inventor of the fried clam. And to be clear, we're talking here about whole belly fried clams, not clam strips. Whole fried clams have a juicy, briny belly that's very tender, along with the chewy strip part. Clam strips are made from a different kind of clam and use only the strip part. Anyway, as the years went by, Woodman's

• 8:34Dan Pashman?

  Spread beyond Essex. In the late 1920s, Howard Johnson became interested in these fried clams. At the time, Howard Johnson was a restaurant chain in Massachusetts, but it would go on to become one of the biggest hotel and restaurant chains in the country. Still, even in the 1920s, having Howard Johnson himself show up at Woodman's to meet Chubby, that was a big deal.

• 8:55Speaker 04

  He actually came in for a weekend and cooked. And my grandfather cooked with him, showed him how to do it, and he brought it back to his restaurants. And it was great for here, but, you know, he expanded all across the country. It was not the transportation back then that we have now to ship everything. It would have to be frozen. A soft-shelled clam is very delicate. It does not freeze well. And so to take the whole-belly clam, freeze it, and send it off, and then try to replicate, it's different.

• 9:25Dan Pashman?

  So for a big chain like Howard Johnson's with locations all over, whole-belly clams weren't an option. Instead, Johnson went with clam strips, which are better for freezing. This helped popularize fried clams across the country, which did have a downside, as far as I'm concerned. It does bother me, Steve, when places say they're serving fried clams, and it's clam strips. They're not the same food. They're very different from each other. I get a little upset sometimes. This is more so, in New England, everyone understands the difference. There's more, you know, they just have a more educated customer base, and the restaurants know. But like, as soon as you get out of New England, sometimes I'll see fried clams on a menu, and I'll think, I haven't had fried clams in a year. I usually only get them in New England. But once in a while, I have a hankering.

• 10:10Dan Pashman?

  I made the mistake of ordering them multiple times, and then I get clam strips. And I'm like, these are not fried clams.

• 10:15Speaker 04

  Technically, they are fried clams, but so you do have to distinguish, you know, are they whole-belly?

• 10:20Dan Pashman?

  Right. Now I started asking.

• 10:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, and that's what we have on our menu is Chubby's Whole Belly Fried Clams.

• 10:26Dan Pashman?

  Chubby's wife, Bessie, added another feature to Woodman's menu, the clam bake. Her family used to have clam bakes at the beach in the Native American style of digging a big hole, filling it with rocks, building a fire, and essentially pit-cooking the clams. That gave Chubby an idea. He still knew people at Beverly Farms, that wealthy estate where he had first worked.

• 10:44Speaker 04

  And just figured that they would love to have, you know, a clam bake in their own yard or their own private beach.

• 10:51Dan Pashman?

  So this is more like, this is a more affluent area. Folks with some money who might like to have a nice clam bake, they would want something a little more upscale.

• 10:58Speaker 04

  Exactly. So it's like a portable, open pit.

• 11:02Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 11:02Speaker 04

  And so he cooked his clams at his corn and his steamers and, you know, lobsters and sometimes potatoes and whatever, all on top of the ground. And you could actually get to a place an hour before you're gonna gonna serve and cook the food there, set up tables, and serve within an hour.

• 11:21Dan Pashman?

  Clambakes remain something Woodman's is very famous for. They've done them as far away as Las Vegas, where they were once hired to do a clam bake for a thousand people at a catering convention.

• 11:30Speaker 04

  Oh, they they loved it. They just, you know, the idea of seeing the way we cooked and, you know, bring them behind to let them see the fires going and the pits and then serving them. And, you know, getting fresh seafood in Las Vegas, it was it was nice.

• 11:44Dan Pashman?

  How has the fried clam recipe changed over the years?

• 11:47Speaker 04

  It hasn't.

• 11:49Dan Pashman?

  Not at all?

• 11:50Speaker 04

  No.

• 11:50Dan Pashman?

  Wow.

• 11:51Speaker 04

  So we use 100% corn flour. And so there's no wheat or barley, so it's actually gluten free. And so we we stumbled into that, gluten, being gluten free.

• 12:02Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, 90 years after you started, it became a trend, right?

• 12:05Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 12:07Speaker 04

  Because most people do put a white flour in their corn flour, because it does lighten up the batter and make it make it look nice. But we never wanted to change our grandfather's recipe. He also used lard back then. And we still use lard.

• 12:21Dan Pashman?

  Am I right that you use Ipswich clams?

• 12:24Speaker 04

  I'll say Essex clams.

• 12:25Dan Pashman?

  Okay. Oh, is that a rivalry? Did I just get in trouble?

• 12:30Speaker 04

  There are clams in Essex, there are clams in Ipswich, there are clams in Gloucester, and clams in Rowley, and so forth. And a lot of times, the only difference is a line in the sand.

• 12:39Dan Pashman?

  Right. Is it the same water?

• 12:40Speaker 04

  It's the same water most of the time. You know, Gloucester, Essex, and Ipswich all have clamming in what they call the Essex Bay. Ipswich clams got popular because the companies that started selling clams throughout New England were in Ipswich. So they would market it, Ipswich clams, Ipswich clams. In fact, I went to a restaurant the other day, they had on their menu Ipswich clams, but I was looking at the gallon of clams they they had, and it was from Maine.

• 13:10Speaker 04

  But it was an insurance company that brought him down and sold him.

• 13:15Dan Pashman?

  This may be a controversial opinion, Steve, but I, I wouldn't want this in all my fried clams, but I like an occasional fried clam with a couple bits of sand in it. What are your thoughts?

• 13:27Speaker 04

  Thoughts?

• 13:29Speaker 04

  I wouldn't say I, I want that. But it does happen because they grow in the sand. You can wash them and wash them and wash them. You still will get a little bit of grit in the belly sometimes in the fried clam.

• 13:42Dan Pashman?

  I, I just feel like, first off, it just makes it feel like, okay, this is a real clam that came from a real place, you know, like this was, this isn't some sort of imitation situation. It's not from a factory farm or whatever. So I like that. But also like, you know, my grandmother, who grew up on the North Shore, just down the road from here, spent her whole life nearby. She would always say that, uh, when she would get a clam that had a little bit of sand in it, she would always say, "It's critzing in my teeth." And I always liked that expression. Have you ever heard that?

• 14:09Speaker 04

  I haven't heard that.

• 14:10Dan Pashman?

  No, that's not like a New England lexicon thing?

• 14:12Speaker 04

  No, I, I haven't heard that one.

• 14:13Dan Pashman?

  All right. Woodman's recipe for fried clams is out there. It's no secret. The recipe for their renowned onion rings is a little more closely guarded. Although I get the impression from Steve, that's more just because they like the idea of having a secret recipe. There's nothing in there that's gonna shock you. The key is really just making them from scratch and frying them in the same lard they use for the clams. So the fried clams, the onion rings, the clam chowder and more. All this makes Woodman special. But what really ties it together is the history. There's a gray wooden house right next to the restaurant across the parking lot. That was Chubby and Bessie's house. Today, Steve and his wife live there. He says something like 10 family members live within two miles of the restaurant, and he has dozens of family members in the payroll.

• 14:51Speaker 04

  I had, let me see. I had nine grandkids work this year.

• 14:58Dan Pashman?

  What's it like to be your grandkids' boss?

• 15:01Speaker 04

  It's a family business. I don't look at my grandkids and say, "I'm your, yeah, I'm your boss." No, I'm Papa.

• 15:08Speaker 04

  And that's the way I thought of it with my father and, uh, and my grandfather.

• 15:13Dan Pashman?

  What do you think Chubby and Bessie would say?

• 15:17Dan Pashman?

  If they saw this operation today?

• 15:19Speaker 04

  Well, my grandfather, he was here when we were serving crowds of people on weekends.

• 15:25Dan Pashman?

  What did he make of that?

• 15:26Speaker 04

  He, he would smile and he'd pat his belly and...

• 15:33Dan Pashman?

  And so, so he lived long enough to see this really taking off as a successful business and the parking lot full of people in the summer, as you say. But I feel like, you know, in the decades since then, Woodman's has kind of attained a level, setting aside the actual business and the numbers and the dollars and cents of just sort of being this iconic New England institution. So what do you think Chubby would make of that? The notoriety of Woodman's today?

• 15:58Speaker 04

  I think that he'd be really proud. He's, you know, very happy that that would happen because actually the state of Massachusetts designated us as one of 23 places in Massachusetts that you should go to. We're the only restaurant on it.

• 16:12Dan Pashman?

  Somewhere up there, Chubby's looking down, patting his belly.

• 16:15Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 16:19Dan Pashman?

  Coming up, dinner time. I sit down for a meal with someone who's been coming to Woodman's for decades, my mom. Then later, we'll have our second New England summer story when I go to a church on Martha's Vineyard for lobster rolls. But when I ask about the recipe, there's a shocking surprise. That's coming up. Stick around.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Time to cook up some advertisements.

• 16:47Dan Pashman?

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• 17:28Dan Pashman?

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• 18:12Dan Pashman?

  bite at your local Boar's Head deli. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. Last year, right around this time, I got a new jacket from Quince, a lightweight fall jacket, and it has turned into my favorite jacket. And this is why you need a lightweight jacket, and probably a new one, because it's time to freshen up your look. You need a lightweight jacket from Quince, because the beauty of a lightweight jacket is you can wear in the early fall, you can wear it in the early spring, but also it goes over a sweater, over a sweatshirt. And then suddenly, your lightweight jacket is a great accessory for pretty much the whole winter. Bottom line, when the temperatures start to drop, Quince makes it easy to build on those everyday staples with versatile layers designed to keep you warm and comfortable all season long. They make elevated everyday essentials using premium materials and designs that

• 18:57Dan Pashman?

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• 19:25Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to The Sporkful. I'm Dan Pashman. Last week was our salad spinner, our rapid fire roundtable chat of the biggest and strangest food stories of the moment. I chat with Elizaveta Sontag from The Washington Post, and Deena Shankar of Bloomberg Businessweek about how much you should tip at coffee shops, America's growing obsession with the supermarket chain Aldi, and a lot more. Plus, they came with their summertime hot takes. Deena, what's your hot take?

• 19:49Speaker 01

  So my hot take is that coffee should be hot, and people who drink iced coffee in anything less than, say, like 95 degrees indirect sun are wimps.

• 20:02Speaker 04

  Oh, gay people are gonna hate this one.

• 20:07Dan Pashman?

  Is iced coffee in cold weather a gay thing?

• 20:11Speaker 04

  Totally. It is like, it is like the flag of the community. Oh yeah, you just, you just drove, you just drove an anti-pride flag through the heart of America.

• 20:22Speaker 04

  But that's okay. Speak your truth. It's too late now.

• 20:25Dan Pashman?

  That one's up now. Check it out. Also, make sure you stay tuned to the end of this show for a special segment featuring a great story about food, family, and soccer. Sponsored by Mira Lacks. All right, let's get back to the show. It was great talking with Steve, but I also had dinner plans. Just then, my guests arrived.

• 20:43Speaker 05

  Hey, Linda.

• 20:44Speaker 04

  Steve.

• 20:44Speaker 05

  Steve, nice to meet you.

• 20:46Speaker 04

  Louis. Louis. This is my friend. This is Steve Woodman.

• 20:49Speaker 05

  Very nice to meet you. Very nice to meet you. I think I go back before you were even working here. Maybe, maybe not.

• 20:56Speaker 04

  When was the first time you came here?

• 20:58Speaker 05

  Well, I was telling Dan that I used to drive here in my 1959 Pontiac Bonneville with about eight people in the car because it was a bench seat. And there'd be four or five girls in the back and me and two passengers in the front. I was talking to my friend. We used to go to buy Endicott when it was a junior college to spy on her ex-boyfriend. See, don't, don't put that in.

• 21:26Speaker 04

  Too late.

• 21:27Speaker 05

  As soon as I said that, I know it's going in.

• 21:30Speaker 04

  I'm pretty sure he's over it.

• 21:32Speaker 05

  I don't know. He still shows up at reunions looking for her.

• 21:38Dan Pashman?

  Steve confirmed that he had not yet started at Woodman's. My mom was first coming here. And it turns out those reconnaissance missions that she and her friends went on, which included trips to Woodman's, those weren't their only hijinks.

• 21:48Speaker 05

  My friend Joan reminded me that her father was in sales and she used to have to go to Deveraux Beach in Marblehead and have somebody disconnect the odometer before we left in her car. And then we go back there and they hooked it up again.

• 22:03Speaker 04

  Hooked it up again, right.

• 22:04Speaker 05

  Because he had to keep track of the miles.

• 22:05Speaker 04

  Of his miles, sure.

• 22:06Speaker 05

  Yes, yes. But just a lot of good memories for this whole area. I just loved driving here.

• 22:12Speaker 04

  Yep, there's a lot of memories.

• 22:14Speaker 05

  It still smells so good here. It really does. It's such a, it's a great spot.

• 22:20Dan Pashman?

  But even just like being outside in front here, there's this specific combination of smells. That is the frying oil, the fish, and the water, the river, and the salt water. And all these things that kind of wafting through the air together. It's like very sort of iconic New England smell.

• 22:38Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm. Low tide is, tide is going, and so they're down there digging clams now.

• 22:45Dan Pashman?

  They're gonna bring them here?

• 22:45Speaker 04

  They'll bring them here.

• 22:46Dan Pashman?

  How long from the time they come out of the water to the time they're in the fryer?

• 22:52Speaker 04

  They came in the morning, early enough, and I, I could get them to the, to the, to the shucking house. I could have them, have them here late afternoon.

• 23:01Dan Pashman?

  My parents and I said goodbye to Steve and went to the counter to order some dinner. We got a lobster roll, chowder, steamed clams, or steamers, those famous onion rings, and of course, a heaping helping of fried clams. All right, I'm gonna have a clam, I'm going in.

• 23:18Dan Pashman?

  That's really good.

• 23:19Speaker 05

  Mmm. Delicious.

• 23:22Dan Pashman?

  I feel like it's just the right amount of batter.

• 23:25Speaker 05

  And clammy.

• 23:27Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, there's like a real clam flavor.

• 23:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, cuz it's not buried in, in batter. Now just watch Dad cuz he's got the clam chowder. We don't want him to eat all the clams out.

• 23:39Dan Pashman?

  Dad, you're on notice.

• 23:41Speaker 06

  I share.

• 23:43Dan Pashman?

  All right, onion rings, what are your thoughts?

• 23:46Speaker 05

  Delicious, I like tempura onion rings. The crust is so light.

• 23:51Dan Pashman?

  Dad, onion rings?

• 23:52Speaker 06

  Delicious, they're great. Crisp, light.

• 23:56Dan Pashman?

  Are you just being that enthusiastic as I'm sticking a microphone in front of your face?

• 24:00Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 24:03Dan Pashman?

  On my third or fourth bite of the fried clams, my perfect New England experience was unlocked. I just got a little sandy bit in the clam chowder.

• 24:10Speaker 05

  Oh, good.

• 24:11Dan Pashman?

  It's a good sign.

• 24:12Speaker 05

  That's, that makes it really authentic.

• 24:16Dan Pashman?

  The food and the atmosphere are both great. There's probably an 80-year range from the youngest to the oldest person eating there. You know those old wooden tables have some stories. Speaking of stories, were you able to spy on that boyfriend at Endicott Junior College?

• 24:29Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 24:30Dan Pashman?

  What, did you hide in the bushes?

• 24:32Speaker 05

  We looked for his car.

• 24:34Dan Pashman?

  And when you, so you found his car?

• 24:36Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 24:36Dan Pashman?

  And then what?

• 24:37Speaker 05

  I'm not saying.

• 24:43Dan Pashman?

  Now, we're gonna travel a couple of hours from Essex down to Cape Cod, Mass., where we'll board a ferry to the island of Martha's Vineyard. This gives me the chance to make my ferry horn sound that I perfected over the years. You ready?

• 24:57Dan Pashman?

  Pretty good, huh? I've been practicing. Anyway, I grew up coming to Martha's Vineyard every summer with my family, and for years, we've been eating the lobster rolls from Grace Episcopal Church in Vineyard Haven. Every Friday night in the summer, Grace Church sells these lobster rolls in their parish hall. It began in 1988, when a group of six congregants started it as a fundraiser. It was a small thing, but word of these lobster rolls started spreading and spreading. They've been voted best on Martha's Vineyard every year for the last 15 years. So when I was on Martha's Vineyard, visiting my parents, I went over to Grace Church on a Friday, a couple of hours before the lobster rolls would go on sale, to talk with the folks who make them. How many lobster rolls do you eat in an average summer?

• 25:35Speaker 04

  In an average summer? One.

• 25:38Dan Pashman?

  You're kidding.

• 25:38Speaker 04

  No. No, my, my girlfriend and I, the night of the fireworks, after working here, we sit on her porch in Oak Bluffs, and we drink champagne and eat lobster rolls, and then fall asleep on the porch.

• 25:52Speaker 04

  Last week, we were here for nine hours. So, uh, yeah, a lobster roll and a bottle of champagne is, is in order after that.

• 26:00Dan Pashman?

  This is Sandy Pratt. She joined the lobster roll committee 25 years ago.

• 26:05Speaker 04

  My next-door neighbor was one of the original lobster roll ladies, and she got me roped into helping her on Friday nights. So every Friday night in the summertime, this is what I do.

• 26:18Dan Pashman?

  So you are not one of the original six who, who were here in the very first year?

• 26:22Speaker 04

  The very first year.

• 26:23Dan Pashman?

  But you were, you're a very early adopter.

• 26:25Speaker 04

  The very first year, the very first year, the first woman who... Who came up with the idea, because she had a friend that did it at hers, was a woman named Mary Tucker. She is now, I want to say 100, but I don't think she's quite 100. So she doesn't come in and make lobster rolls anymore, but...

• 26:43Dan Pashman?

  If I see her around, I'll tell her you said she was 100.

• 26:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, you can do that. She'd probably be pleased.

• 26:51Dan Pashman?

  But, so what were those early years like?

• 26:53Speaker 04

  Well, I'll tell you, when I first started it, there were two couples that used to come in. He was a coach at the high school and his wife, and the other was an ex-FBI guy and his wife. And they would come with a cooler full of cocktails. So at those points, at those nights, we were only doing maybe 100, 150 lobster rolls.

• 27:17Dan Pashman?

  But you were having a lot of fun.

• 27:18Speaker 04

  We were having a great time.

• 27:22Dan Pashman?

  I didn't see any cocktails in the kitchen the night I was there. But one thing that hasn't changed?

• 27:27Speaker 04

  The recipe is lobster.

• 27:29Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 27:30Speaker 04

  Mayonnaise.

• 27:31Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 27:31Speaker 04

  And white pepper and tender loving care.

• 27:35Dan Pashman?

  This is Roger McGary, another volunteer. As we spoke, he was mixing several pounds of lobster meat with mayo in a huge bowl. And what are the ratios of lobster meat to mayo to white pepper?

• 27:48Speaker 04

  You, it's a shake of the pepper. Mix up the lobster, shake a little more, mix up some more. And then you put mayo in just to make it squish. That's the formula. Make it squish. Once it squishes, you know you've got enough mayo.

• 28:04Dan Pashman?

  Is there a sound that you listen for?

• 28:06Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 28:06Dan Pashman?

  I want to, I'm gonna put my microphone close. I want to hear the sound.

• 28:09Speaker 04

  You won't be, I don't know if you'll hear it. Let's try.

• 28:11Dan Pashman?

  I'm cranking up the volume.

• 28:15Dan Pashman?

  All right, let's hear it.

• 28:21Dan Pashman?

  That's the squish.

• 28:22Speaker 04

  That's the squish.

• 28:23Dan Pashman?

  What does the wrong squish sound like?

• 28:25Speaker 04

  The wrong squish, you don't get the squish, it's very light. Or it's just too wet because you put too much mayo in.

• 28:32Dan Pashman?

  So too much mayo, it's gonna sound, I would think maybe it's gonna sound kind of heavy and gloopy.

• 28:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, yes.

• 28:37Dan Pashman?

  So there's literally no official recipe on any piece of paper somewhere?

• 28:41Speaker 04

  No.

• 28:42Dan Pashman?

  You just have to listen for the squish?

• 28:44Speaker 04

  Yes, and one of the old timers that taught me how to mix.

• 28:46Dan Pashman?

  Yeah.

• 28:47Speaker 04

  Said, "When it squishes, you've got enough mayo."

• 28:51Dan Pashman?

  That's been my formula. So that's Roger, or as I like to think of him, the keeper of the squish. The Grace Church recipe is most notable for what's not in it. No tarragon or dill, no scallions or paprika like these fancy places like to use. Not even any celery, and I'm actually OK with celery in a lobster roll, as long as it's chopped very small. I like the zesty crunch. Most importantly, though, at Grace Church, no lettuce. A lot of places use lettuce in lobster rolls to deceive you. The lobster roll arrives with the meat piled high over the top of the bun, and you look at it and you think, wow, that's a lot of lobster. Then you bite into it and find out that hidden under all that meat is a bunch of lettuce,

• 29:35Dan Pashman?

  filling up the bun like packing peanuts. At Grace Church, it's all lobster. While Roger mixed, other folks were portioning the lobster meat into eight-ounce containers. And this is another thoughtful element to the operation. They don't combine the meat and buns until the last second. And if you order it to go, they give them to you separately. This keeps the buns from getting soggy. In my family, we take them home so we can griddle the buns in butter. That's a pretty crucial part of an ideal lobster roll. Grace Church doesn't have the staff to individually griddle 1,400 buns to order. As Roger, Sandy, and several other crew members move around the kitchen, one man quietly keeps an eye on everything.

• 30:15Speaker 04

  Everybody around here knows me as Bo Pickard.

• 30:18Dan Pashman?

  Bo Pickard is originally from Worcester, Mass. He moved to the island 20 years ago. When we meet, he's wearing a hat made out of a giant plush lobster. Bo runs his own business repairing propane gas lines and appliances. He's almost always on call for his customers. But for him, lobster roll nights are sacred.

• 30:37Speaker 04

  I don't do my business on Fridays during the summer. My Fridays are here.

• 30:43Speaker 04

  You've got a problem, unless it's an extreme emergency, you can wait till tomorrow.

• 30:48Dan Pashman?

  Bo started volunteering at the lobster roll dinners in 2014. He liked it so much that he and his wife decided to join Grace Church. When the founding lobster roll ladies retired a few years ago, Bo took over as chair of the lobster roll committee. The money raised each summer goes towards the church's ministries and mission projects, including local and overseas organizations.

• 31:08Speaker 04

  Last year, we got a late start. We cleared forty-eight eight.

• 31:14Dan Pashman?

  Forty-eight thousand dollars. Still, that's, I'm sure that makes a difference.

• 31:18Speaker 04

  Yeah. And this year, we've topped that this year. Already, and we're not done yet, so.

• 31:24Dan Pashman?

  What's the all-time record for most lobster rolls in one night?

• 31:28Speaker 04

  Um, is it fifteen? I got the old, I got the old chart.

• 31:33Dan Pashman?

  Oh, you got a chart? Let's see the chart, show me the chart. Oh, look at this. Lobster roll sales. Wow, 2015. There was a stretch in July and August 2015. What was happening then? Twelve hundred, thirteen hundred, fourteen hundred? You had, you had three weeks in a row of over fourteen hundred lobster rolls.

• 31:53Speaker 04

  People were still on the island and they, and they liked the lobster meat.

• 31:58Dan Pashman?

  As Bo reels off these numbers, I'm looking at these huge mixing bowls filled with chunks of lobster. And I'm starting to wonder, where does all this lobster come from? I mean, I just always assumed the church had some setup with one of the fish markets on the island to get fresh local lobster. But it started to hit me. Half a pound of lobster per roll. Fourteen hundred rolls in a night. That's seven hundred pounds of lobster meat sold in one evening. There are not many small, local fish markets anywhere that can get you seven hundred pounds of fresh lobster meat all in the same day. I was nervous to ask Bo about it. I was afraid maybe I was digging into some closely guarded secret. But he just told me.

• 32:40Speaker 04

  Um, I guess I get it through Cisco.

• 32:42Dan Pashman?

  Okay.

• 32:42Speaker 04

  And they were, I think, out of Canada, I think.

• 32:45Dan Pashman?

  Wherever, okay.

• 32:48Dan Pashman?

  In case you didn't catch that, Bo said he gets the lobster from Cisco. That's the same huge food service company that supplies restaurants all over the country, as well as school cafeterias and hospitals. You've probably seen their trucks on the highway. The lobster meat comes frozen in two-pound bags. This blew my mind. For as long as I can remember, it has been drilled into my head that if seafood is going to be any good, it's got to be fresh, not frozen. I waited tables at a popular seafood restaurant in Boston, and that's all they talked about. So how is it possible that the best lobster rolls I've ever had in my life are made with frozen lobster meat?

• 33:26Dan Pashman?

  I had come in search of lobster rolls, but it would appear I had stumbled into a mystery.

• 33:36Dan Pashman?

  Coming up, the search for answers. Then later, the church doors open and lobster roll night begins. Stick around.

• 33:55Speaker 01

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• 34:43Speaker 07

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• 34:59Dan Pashman?

  Hey, it's Dan here. Thank you so much, first of all, for tuning into this portfolio every week. We really appreciate it. And I want to let you know, if you want to hear new episodes ad-free, subscribe to Sirius XM Podcasts Plus on Apple Podcasts, or visit siriusxm.com/podcastsplus to listen with Spotify or another app of your choice. Thanks.

• 35:24Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back. When we left off, our heartwarming story about Grace Church's lobster roll night had turned into a mystery. Conventional wisdom says fresh seafood is always better than frozen, right? So how is it possible that the best lobster rolls I've ever had are made with frozen lobster meat? I decided to do some digging. I consulted with Daniel Gritzer. He's the Senior Culinary Director at Sirius Eats. And Daniel told me that while some delicate cuts of seafood can suffer from freezing, lobster is different. That's because lobster meat is tough. And when you freeze it, tiny ice crystals form that make microscopic tears in the meat, tenderizing it. Which actually makes sense. I mean, I know some people prefer fresh lobster, but to me, it's a little bit chewy. Freezing it helps. But that alone isn't enough to make great lobster rolls. Grace Church has

• 36:08Dan Pashman?

  a specific preparation process that unlocks the full flavor of the lobster. Beau walked me through it. He said the lobster arrives on a Monday, and he thaws it out slowly over the course of the week.

• 36:19Speaker 04

  We drain the lobster meat. We let it drain naturally. I fill the containers with special containers that I use that are like a square cylinder.

• 36:28Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 36:29Speaker 04

  And we put the lobster meat in that, in the packages, and then that drains down onto a regular plastic pan below that. We do that on Wednesday. We do that again on Thursday. And then on Friday morning to here.

• 36:40Dan Pashman?

  Wait, so what's the liquid that's being drained from that?

• 36:44Speaker 04

  The natural water that comes from the lobster.

• 36:48Dan Pashman?

  That's interesting, because one of the things that I've noticed at some other lobster rolls that I've eaten that were less good is that they're kind of watery. The meat tastes a little watery. And I guess that must be because they're not draining the meat as much.

• 37:00Speaker 04

  That's very possible. Yeah, no, we just let it drain naturally.

• 37:04Dan Pashman?

  So Beau basically made special giant strainers for thawing and draining the lobster meat. Lobsters are especially wet creatures, so this process naturally removes a lot of water from the meat. Beau comes in every day throughout the week to empty the water from the trays. Everyone I meet at Grace Church has their own specific rituals around lobster rolls. Here's Susan Eibner. It does taste better. You're sitting near the ocean. Hundred percent like the only other lobster rolls that I've ever had that I enjoy nearly as much as the Grace Church ones come from Kelly's on a Revere Beach. Oh, okay. Just north of Boston. Yeah. It's called Kelly's. Susan is the interim priest at Grace Church. They put, I believe they put little bits of celery in. How do you feel about that? No, no celery.

• 37:50Dan Pashman?

  That's too bad. Yeah.

• 37:55Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, but when I find the ones nowadays that have like, the tarragon is about the dill or they want to put, it's just like. Or they fill it, they do the filler with the lettuce. Oh, unacceptable. Yeah, we literally, did they show you how they weigh out every single container or lobster roll gets the same amount? Absolutely, eight ounces, which is a lot. It is. You know, it's, it's interesting to me, Susan, because I think that a lot of people perceive lobster rolls as expensive. Because they're on a menu, they're often like in the sandwich section. Right. And so if you're looking at roast beef sandwich, eight dollars, turkey sandwich, you know, nine dollars, and then you see lobster roll, twenty dollars. You're like, whoa, that's an expensive sandwich. Yeah. But that's, I don't think that's the right economic way to think about it. That's right.

• 38:39Dan Pashman?

  Because eight ounces of lobster meat, I actually researched this today before coming here because I was curious. On average, a one pound lobster in the shell yields three to three and a half ounces. Yeah, yeah. So you're doing eight ounces, that means that it is more meat than you would get from a two pound lobster, which is big. Yeah. If you were to go into a nice restaurant and order a two pound lobster with the drawn butter and all that, the whole big lobster on the plate, it would cost way more than twenty dollars. Yes, yes, it would. You're absolutely right. Yeah. Susan clearly knows her way around a lobster roll. She was born and raised in Maine. And she's seen her share of church fundraisers. She's been a pastor all over the country.

• 39:20Dan Pashman?

  In fact, that's her job. She works with churches when they're in between priests. Sometimes she stays a few months, sometimes a few years. She's been at Grace Church since 2016.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  I got the job here because I have dealt with community grief and their last priest died and they were heartbroken and so this has been a time of helping them to really come back to their own.

• 39:48Dan Pashman?

  Susan says these lobster roll dinners at Grace Church are the most ambitious church fundraiser she has ever encountered, but they're special in another way, too.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  People come in and it's like old home week. It's like everybody comes in and they're glad to see each other and they've seen each other other summers and people meet people here and remember people here and go and sit at tables together that they only do here on Friday nights. And anything that becomes a community builder in this day and age is a ministry.

• 40:21Dan Pashman?

  Another thing that brings new people into Grace Church, the stained glass windows that depict two black priests who were early leaders in the Episcopal Church. Those windows are part of Martha's Vineyard's African American Heritage Trail.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  People are coming in and going, "So where are the windows?"

• 40:40Dan Pashman?

  Can you mind, can we take a quick look?

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:42Dan Pashman?

  We left the parish hall and went into the church sanctuary.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  So this is the window for the first African American Episcopal priest is Absalom Jones.

• 40:52Dan Pashman?

  Reverend Jones is depicted in a black robe, holding a communion cup and a wafer. The other window features the right Reverend John M. Burgess, the first African American diocesan bishop. He's in a white robe, holding a candle lighter and a Bible.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  Seeing people come in and seeing those windows, one woman said to me, "There's only one other church in my entire life that I ever saw an African American depicted, somebody who looked like me in a stained glass window." And it was just one of those moments where as a... White woman of privilege, I think, is the way I would describe myself. I was stunned by that. I had never, I had thought about the fact that Jesus wasn't white, thank you very much, but he was never depicted that way, the way he really was. He's usually depicted as a white man.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  But I'd never really thought about the fact that African Americans didn't see stained glass windows where the faces of people looked like them. And so there was the learning for me, and there was a pride in the people who go in and look at the two windows.

• 42:05Dan Pashman?

  After getting a good look at the stained glass windows, Susan and I returned to the parish hall, where the doors were just about to open for lobster roll night. Everyone was moving around the room faster now, there was less joking around. People had their game faces on. It was time to ask Pastor Susan one last question. How do you like your lobster roll?

• 42:26Speaker 01

  They pretty much have it. I grew up in down east Maine.

• 42:30Dan Pashman?

  Oh.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 42:32Dan Pashman?

  So you're like New England to the core?

• 42:33Speaker 01

  I am, yeah. And lobster roll to the core. You don't mess with lobster. I'm a purist.

• 42:40Dan Pashman?

  Yeah.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  I fit in here.

• 42:47Dan Pashman?

  I love that you describe yourself as a purist in terms of lobster rolls, because you're like, "Jesus wasn't white, but don't you dare put tarragon on my lobster roll."

• 42:59Speaker 01

  That's right. There's, you know.

• 43:00Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  That's the Episcopal Church in a nutshell.

• 43:09Dan Pashman?

  Pretty soon, it's showtime. The doors are about to open.

• 43:13Dan Pashman?

  Sandy, can I check in with you? Yes. It's just a few minutes before four. Update me, where do things stand? Where do things stand? Well, we are ready. We've got all our stations manned. The pie table is full of pies, and we're ready. Hopefully, we can move them in and move them out. And what are the emotions like over the course of the day of Friday, building up to this moment when the doors open? Let there be a long line. There you go. That's it. That's the one. Let it be a good night. Let it be a good night, and let nobody yell at anybody in the kitchen. Sometimes it gets a little tense in the kitchen. These guys will get backed up, and we won't have a Enough containers for them and we'll be trying to make them as fast as we can.

• 43:56Dan Pashman?

  And they're standing there going, "I need three more."

• 44:01Dan Pashman?

  And we say, you know, "You'll get them when we're ready."

• 44:08Dan Pashman?

  At four o'clock, the doors open. Ten minutes later, they had sold a hundred lobster rolls and there was a line out the door. The hall is a pretty typical church function room. Wood ceilings, simple decorations. It has three or four big round tables with red and white checkered tablecloths. The tables are communal, so different groups end up sitting together. There was the college student here working for the summer, having her first Grace Church experience.

• 44:32Speaker 04

  I think the amount of lobster that came on the roll was a little shocking when it first came out.

• 44:38Dan Pashman?

  The husband and wife pilots were on the island for the season.

• 44:41Speaker 04

  We know people that fly in from Connecticut on Fridays to come here. Because, first of all, the lobster rolls are delicious, and secondly, the charity is wonderful.

• 44:51Dan Pashman?

  And a woman who's been coming to Martha's Vineyard for forty years, since she was a baby. The lobster is big and juicy. I mean, they have like the biggest lobster pieces that I've seen, the chunks. So, and it's like nice and sweet, and it just tastes really good, and everybody's friendly, so I guess that makes it special, too. Then, there was this guy. Can you tell me your name, please?

• 45:15Speaker 03

  I am, uh, I'm Captain Ralph Joseph.

• 45:17Dan Pashman?

  Hey, Captain. Oh, here's your business card, okay.

• 45:20Speaker 03

  I advertise lobster roll charters. You guys are my biggest draw out of New Bedford. And people stand in line at the docks to come out here and have these lobster rolls.

• 45:28Dan Pashman?

  Wait, seriously?

• 45:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:30Dan Pashman?

  Lobster roll charters?

• 45:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:31Dan Pashman?

  In New Bedford, Massachusetts? People, you, people hire you to take them in a boat from New Bedford to Martha's Vineyard just to eat these lobster rolls?

• 45:38Speaker 03

  I mean, I talk them into it. They do some shopping, they mingle with the locals, they, I mean, they enjoy the island, but, uh...

• 45:45Speaker 06

  Uh, the highlight that I advertise is the lobster rolls.

• 45:48Dan Pashman?

  These lobster rolls.

• 45:49Speaker 06

  Absolutely.

• 45:52Dan Pashman?

  I spotted Beau in the corner of the kitchen, surveying the scene. His plush lobster hat had gotten turned a little crooked in all the craziness. All right, Beau, you look like you're taking a minute to yourself. How are things going? How's the night proceeding so far?

• 46:03Speaker 04

  Good, really good.

• 46:05Dan Pashman?

  Can you tell at this point, we're, we're, we're about 30 minutes in now? Can you tell how big of a night it's gonna be?

• 46:11Speaker 04

  Nope, no way.

• 46:13Dan Pashman?

  So like in 10 minutes, a thousand people may show up?

• 46:16Speaker 04

  Or a tenant could stop dead.

• 46:17Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 46:19Speaker 04

  No clue.

• 46:20Dan Pashman?

  Right, right.

• 46:21Speaker 04

  I'm hoping, I'm hoping for at least a thousand.

• 46:23Dan Pashman?

  All right, all right, that's a good goal.

• 46:25Speaker 04

  Good goal.

• 46:27Dan Pashman?

  At this point, I was starving. It was time to place my order. All right, well, Louise, I would like four lobster rolls, please. You would like four lobster rolls? As they put my food together, I chatted with Simone Pratt. She's been coming to Martha's Vineyard every summer for more than 20 years, since she was in college.

• 46:44Speaker 04

  I'm kind of a traditionalist. I like tradition. I like passing on traditions in my family. So I think also the mystique of coming here and doing this, I only come once a year here. So I think it adds to the fandom.

• 46:56Dan Pashman?

  You don't seem to be eating a lobster roll.

• 46:58Speaker 04

  Um, cause I have it in a container, cause I'm going out to watch the sunset in Monemsha. So I'm gonna eat it while I'm watching the sunset.

• 47:04Dan Pashman?

  So lobster rolls and sunsets for you tonight?

• 47:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, lobster roll and sunset. It's kind of perfect, yeah.

• 47:14Dan Pashman?

  Remember Beau said he was hoping to sell a thousand lobster rolls that night I was there? They ended up selling 852. Solid show. Now, a few updates since we first aired this story on Grace Church. They found a permanent rector to replace interim priest Susan Eibner. His name is Stephen Harding, and like Susan, he's a New England native. So I think Grace Church's lobster rolls will be safe under his leadership. He's not gonna try to sneak any lettuce in there. And finally, Mary Tucker, the woman who had the initial idea for this lobster roll fundraiser, passed away in 2021, just shy of her 103rd birthday.

• 47:45Dan Pashman?

  My thanks to Bo, Sandy, Susan, Roger, and to Karen Huff of the Grace Church Lobster Roll Committee for being part of this episode. Thanks also to Steve Woodman of Woodman's and of course, my parents. Next week on the show, do you ever wonder why the McDonald's ice cream machines always seem to be broken? When two entrepreneurs try to fix the problem, they end up creating bigger problems of their own. That one's next week. While you wait for that, check out last week's show, our salad spinner, we debate tipping in coffee shops, when it's appropriate to drink iced coffee, and a lot more. And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? And there's interviews with A-list stars

• 48:27Dan Pashman?

  and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app, all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful. This episode is produced by me, along with Anne Sannity, Gofan and Putuwele, Emma Morganstern, and Andres O'Hara. It was edited by Peter Clowney and Camille Stanley. Our technical director is Jared O'Connell. Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of SiriusXM Podcasts. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 48:58Speaker 05

  And I'm Lisa Kinbi from Stonem, Massachusetts, reminding you to eat more, eat better, and eat more better.

• 49:12Dan Pashman?

  This segment is brought to you by Miralax. Growing up as a Mexican-American kid in Newark, New Jersey, Juan Cantla wasn't that into soccer. But all that changed in 2006 when he was 12. That year, the biggest soccer tournament in the world roared into his life.

• 49:26Speaker 06

  My uncles and family would just not stop talking about this Mexican team that was going into this tournament in Germany. I think they were ranked number five in the world.

• 49:35Dan Pashman?

  When Mexico played its first game?

• 49:36Speaker 06

  It was just such a big deal. There was so much food around the house. That was the first moment I realized that, you know, this meant a lot. It wasn't just a sport. It was something that, you know, Communities and a country would really zero in on they won 3-1 that game.

• 49:51Dan Pashman?

  That day, Juan got hooked on soccer. A few days later, he went to spend the summer with his grandparents in Mexico in a small town in Puebla called Tojimilco. He got there just in time to see Mexico compete in its second game of the tournament. The entire town shut down for it. Buses stopped running.

• 50:07Speaker 06

  You know, my grandparents didn't own a TV that had color or cable connection. So I remember I had to go to my uncle's house who lived just down the street.

• 50:16Dan Pashman?

  Juan's aunt and uncle invited not just family, but friends and coworkers.

• 50:19Speaker 06

  And we were all just juggling the courtyard. They dragged the TV out of the living room. It wasn't even that big of a screen. It was a box TV.

• 50:26Dan Pashman?

  Juan's uncle had made carnitas, his grandparents made pan dulce, there was barbacoa and a cured beef called sesina with fresh tortillas and queso fresco. That game against Angola ended in a draw. Mexico lost its next game to Portugal, but they had done well enough in their three games to advance to the knockout stage of the tournament, where they would face one of the best teams in the world, Argentina.

• 50:47Speaker 06

  That crowd was the biggest crowd I had seen to that point. We actually watched it in Socorro, which is like the.

• 50:53Dan Pashman?

  Like the town square.

• 50:54Speaker 06

  Yeah, town square because the city hall was actually putting up a bigger screen to watch that game because it was a knockout game. Argentina scored pretty early into the game, but not too long after that, Mexico didn't score. And there was everything flying in the air, beer, food, everything was in the air.

• 51:15Dan Pashman?

  Tostadas are flying across the town square.

• 51:17Speaker 06

  Everything was flying. It went to extra time that game and I'll never forget when they scored on us, the feeling, they just started just dropping because he knew that was it.

• 51:28Speaker 06

  That was the last game for Mexico. They lost in extra time, they were 2-1, but the excitement stayed with me. The best things I experienced were watching it down there and ever since then, I've always watched the biggest tournament to around every four years.

• 51:41Dan Pashman?

  These days, being Mexican-American, Juan roots for both the US and Mexican teams. And he's gotten into the Mexican Pro Soccer League. His uncle took him to a game there.

• 51:49Speaker 06

  I remember walking into that stadium, it was already jam packed. I think the game didn't start for like another hour, but people were singing, drums were out, there were some players going off already. It was a night game too, so it made it look even cooler. But I remember going into the stands. And I was asking for popcorn, but this vendor, he was asking me, what did I want on the popcorn? I just thought, oh, I thought he was like, oh, he's like, no, I got caramel, chocolate, a bunch of other sauces. And he like doubled all the sauces around, did like a little twirl with the popcorn bucket. I was so amazed at the, the showmanship that, you know, a popcorn vendor had in the stands during the game.

• 52:30Speaker 06

  Uh, obviously here in the States, you go to a game, you grab, you know, salsa pizza or a hot dog or a burger. But over there you get a lotas, you can get a mesquite, you can get cup ramen. Which is insane.

• 52:45Dan Pashman?

  Right. That, that doesn't seem on the surface like a convenient thing to eat while watching sports, but I, I'm sure it works.

• 52:51Speaker 06

  No, and I, I remember I saw the vendor carrying them in his box. And they were all ready, ready. He just, if he brought them to you, he just had to dress them, you know? You want the salsa on the dinner, you want the lime, you want some extra protein, we could put that in there too. Stuff like that.

• 53:05Dan Pashman?

  This year for the big tournament, Juan's mom knew exactly what she wanted to serve. Birria tacos, palomas, beer, and?

• 53:12Speaker 06

  She was like, we're gonna make samitas because for Puebla, that's a staple in Puebla, samitas.

• 53:17Dan Pashman?

  That's a sandwich, right?

• 53:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's a sandwich. The bread is panela. It's like a molasses style type bread.

• 53:24Dan Pashman?

  It's a little dark.

• 53:25Speaker 06

  A little darker, yeah. And it's like a regular torta, but you know, the bread is definitely used queso oaxaca or queso. It's pretty much customized as you wish, but it has to be panda panela. That's what we make those samitas.

• 53:36Dan Pashman?

  All right. So samitas on the menu this year. It sounds delicious, Juan. Thanks again to the sponsor of today's segment, Miralax. You know, lots of things can lead to constipation from a change in your routine or diet to stress. And when you're traveling, you know, it's hard to stand top of your water intake. You might not be drinking enough. You might be eating poorly. You're changing your routine or your diet. All of that can get you backed up and Miralax provides gentle constipation relief. Miralax comes in a bottle or mixed in packs that are easy to put in your luggage, pocket or bag for on the go relief. It works naturally with the water in your body to hydrate and soften for a comfortable go. It doesn't cause harsh side effects, no cramping, bloating, gas or sudden urgency. Miralax is the number one doctor recommended over the counter laxative brand.

• 54:18Dan Pashman?

  So travel gut smart, adventure right with on the go constipation relief. Shop now at any retailer near you. Use as directed for occasional constipation.

• 54:27Speaker 07

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• 55:11Speaker 07

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• 55:26Dan Pashman?

  Hey, it's Dan here. Thank you so much, first of all, for tuning into this portfolio every week. We really appreciate it. And I want to let you know, if you want to hear new episodes ad-free, subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts Plus on Apple Podcasts, or visit siriusxm.com/podcastsplus to listen with Spotify or another app of your choice. Thanks.