Bonus Episode: A Music History Memoir and Rock ‘N’ Roll Autobiography Reading List

Fresh off of reading Patti Smith’s excellent memoir Just Kids in preparation of our upcoming Patti episode, we are discussing our favorite music history memoirs and autobiographies, everything from Henry Rollins to Carrie Brownstein back to Henry Rollins via David Lee Roth and more plus, as always, your voicemails, texts, dms, emails and a new segment we’re calling “New Song Old Song”. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is exactly right.

• 0:13Speaker 01

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• 1:11Jake Brennan?

  I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau St. Michelle. They've been leading Washington wine since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive, and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau St. Michelle.

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• 1:59Jake Brennan?

  Hey, discos. Need a little more DisgraceLand in your life? Just a touch to get you through? Yeah, me too. This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome to DisgraceLand: The Afterparty.

• 2:25Jake Brennan?

  Welcome to the Disgrace Land bonus episode, a little thing we like to call the after-party. This is the show after the show, the party after the party, the bridge to get you from one full episode of Disgrace Land to the other, the backyard to dig into the dirt. Our mission to uncover the truth, to confront the myth, to reclaim the story on this bonus episode, a look at our favorite music history memoirs and rock and roll biographies, a new song you're gonna love and an old song that you won't be able to stop listening to. We're previewing next week's episode on Patti Smith. Plus, we get into your emails, comments, DMs, and as always, a whole lot of Rosie. This is the podcast for the musically obsessed, the outsiders, the independent thinkers who know that the best history is the history that gets buried. Disgrace Land is where I

• 3:09Jake Brennan?

  tell the stories I didn't want told, the kind you'll end up telling someone else. All right, discos, let's get into it.

• 3:30Jake Brennan?

  All right, discos, I'm back once again, back in the chair, back behind the mic, back in your ears after some psycho-level travel. Last week, I flew out to Los Angeles from the East Coast, arrived, checked into the hotel, got into an argument with room service over some salmon, woke up the next day, headed out to a studio at an undisclosed location, filmed an interview that will be live on one of the bigger streamers next week. And then I went straight back to the airport, grabbed the red eye, and flew home. Nothing like cross-country travel for one night, but it was worth it. I can't wait for you to hear this interview and for you to hear the news that we've got coming to y'all next week. The entire way, the whole time I was traveling, I had Dave Grohl's book Storyteller

• 4:14Jake Brennan?

  on my lap and in my hands and was barreling through it in order to keep up with research for the Foo Fighters episode that I'm writing this week. The book, Storyteller, Dave Grohl's Storyteller, it's an easy read, feels like it was easy to write as well, if I'm being honest. There's not a lot there. I mean, it's entertaining, don't get me wrong. It's Dave Grohl, and the dude is charisma personified, and he's lived one of, if not the most charmed rock and roll lives that I can think of for a rock star. And not that it hasn't come without a cost, of course, and that cost, at least as it pertains to the loss of Kurt Cobain, is documented in the book. Of course, this

• 4:58Jake Brennan?

  book was written and released before the death of Taylor Hawkins, so that loss is not detailed in Storyteller, but neither are, what I assume are some of the more revealing bits from Dave Grohl's backstory. And so is any sort of narrative thread. It's, it's, I don't want to say it's all over the place. It's not. But you kind of have to go into it knowing Dave Grohl's story to figure out how the whole thing is playing out. Not that it's hard to figure out. It's easy. But it's not hanging on any sort of one theme other than, and I don't want to discount this, the joy that Dave Grohl gets

• 5:42Jake Brennan?

  from music, which is, is important and shouldn't be overlooked. But again, as far as memoirs go, it's, it's kind of lacking. But the book does succeed on quick flashes into Dave's incredible life, all hypercharged by jaw dropping experiences. Dave Grohl bringing Paul McCartney to meet ACDC, Dave Grohl performing for President Obama, Dave Grohl trying to get into Pantera strip club. The book is a ton of fun because Dave Grohl's life is a ton of fun. But the best music history memoirs, they reveal something else. Not just the darker side, but the vulnerability. And there's some of that here for sure, but

• 6:24Jake Brennan?

  not enough. I can't fault them for it. I mean, he's got about 10 albums of Heart on His Sleeve, arena rock anthems. And he's a musician, not a memoirist. So, you know, it is what it is. They can't all be Patti Smith. Which brings me to my point. Reading Dave Grohl's book on the heels of reading Patti Smith's Just Kids and M Train is, it's kind of jarring because Just Kids might be one of my favorite memoirs or autobiographies. By the way, I just learned like seconds ago what the difference is between a memoir and an autobiography. I always thought that a memoir was just a pretentious person's version of an autobiography, like the way John Malkovich pronounces the word memoir

• 7:07Jake Brennan?

  on Burn after reading my memoir, or my, my memoir, my memoir. I can't do it.

• 7:15Jake Brennan?

  I can't do John Malkovich. Forgive me. I almost ran over him once on Mass Ave and Cambridge, but that's another story. A memoir is about a specific time in the writer's life, and an autobiography is more of a cradle to the grave story. So by that definition, I'm comparing apples to donuts here when I'm comparing Just Kids to Dave Grohl's Storyteller. Just Kids is Patti Smith's account mostly of her time in New York City with Robert Mapplethorpe in the late 60s and 70s. And Storyteller is kind of Dave's story from birth up until the time he wrote it a couple of years ago. But still, one is vastly superior to the other and far more of an enjoyable read. And that's the

• 7:57Jake Brennan?

  Patti Smith book, Just Kids. It's one of the best memoirs I've ever read, really, truly. And I know that's the case for a lot of people. A lot of people will tell you that same thing. A lot of people read that book, even non-music obsessives, and it resonated with them. And it's understandable. It's incredible. And it forced me to think about Patti Smith in a different way, in a deeper way, and to hear her music differently. And I can't say that Dave Grohl's book did that for me. I mean, it did on some level. Of course, you're being brought into a part of his life that you haven't really seen before. So you're, of course, you're maybe thinking about him in a fuller way, but not really in a different way. You're certainly, I'm certainly not listening to his music in a different way. But all this got me thinking and talking to some Double Elvis

• 8:41Jake Brennan?

  folks about what the best memoirs and autobiographies from music history are. Spring is now officially here, which means summer is officially right around the corner. So if you're in need of some reading recommendations, I'm going to list some of my favorite music books penned by musicians here in this after-party. And I'm going to ask you guys to hit me up with your recommendations as well. You are a very well-read podcast-listening audience. And I know you've read a bunch of music books that I have not read. So I want your input, 617-906-6638, voicemail and text at @disgracelyampod on the socials, [email protected] if you want to email me.

• 9:26Jake Brennan?

  Aside from Just Kids by Patti Smith, one of my favorite music autobiographies is Get in the Van by Henry Rollins. Now, when I was a kid in a touring band, this was kind of our how-to manual. Now, nothing we ever did was as intense as what Henry and Black Flag had to do in the 80s, but we knew a North Star when we saw it, and this was it. Black Flag were like pilgrims as far as punk rock and hardcore music is concerned. They went out and they created, they didn't only just tour, they went out and they created a circuit that is still, still being used today. I mean, this is in the 80s, which is insane. And this book has it all. It's fantastic. I highly recommend it if you have

• 10:09Jake Brennan?

  not read it. Even if you could give a shit about punk rock or Black Flag, Henry Rollins is one of the most entertaining writers that I've ever come across. He's fantastic. Now, another one, one that I was surprised by recently is I Am Brian Wilson by Brian Wilson, a book that I read last year after Brian died. And before harrying out an episode on, on Brian in a fit of inspiration, this book really blew me away. First of all, I already knew the story like the back of my hand before I read it. Most people do. But the telling of Brian's story by, by Brian Wilson is about as honest and vulnerable

• 10:49Jake Brennan?

  a depiction as you could hope for in an autobiography. And the man's voice, my God, that voice, all the childlike wonder and unpretentious genius of the Beach Boys songs, of the Brian Wilson songs that you, that you love, it's all on full display in every single passage in this book. This book, like the best songs by its author, will make you cry. It's great. I highly recommend it. This next book, however, will make you puke, and that's Marilyn Manson's The Long Hard Road Out of Hell. I've read a lot of rock

• 11:28Jake Brennan?

  star autobiographies, and never have I read one like this. The man is practically begging to be hauled off to jail. Marilyn Manson, AKA Brian Warner, is an evil genius, and he really leans into the evil in this book.

• 11:47Jake Brennan?

  I took this information about as far as I could in our Marilyn Manson episode without, uh, before completely grossing myself out. Uh, there's a lot in this book that I didn't get to. And, you know, there's a lot in the episode that's presented, you know, my point of view is not his point of view, especially on him, as you'll hear when you hear the Marilyn Manson episode, if you haven't heard it already. So check that out. The roadmap, however, for Manson's autobiography is Motley Crue's Dirt by my guy Neil Strauss, which kind of broke the mold for bad boy rock star tell-alls. I didn't grow up a fan of Motley Crue or of hair metal or any of that lame

• 12:32Jake Brennan?

  ass spandex cliche sunset strip rock and roll rock star bullshit. I grew up on punk and hardcore. So these guys were the opposite of what I was into or, or even what I was willing to tolerate as a young man, as a young man. I get it now and I can take it now objectively. Uh, when this book came out though, like I said, I was, I was still a young man and I was still kind of, you know, in the throes of, of punk and hardcore. And, um, I read it anyways. And the only reason I read it was I was staying at my friend Julie, Julie Duffy's place in, in Manhattan at the time. Julie was tour manager for, um, like some huge artists, like she still is, but at the time I think she was on the road

• 13:16Jake Brennan?

  with Justin Timberlake or John, John Cougar Mellencamp, something like that. Anyway, she'd be on the road all the time and she would just let me stay at her place on, on the Upper West Side, which, sorry, Upper East Side. East Side? Yeah. Upper East Side. It was great. Super generous. Thanks Duffy. Still appreciate it. But I was there one day and I think I had a show that night or a meeting or something and I had nothing to do.

• 13:43Jake Brennan?

  And she had this book in her apartment and it was one of those things where I just dropped my bag and I opened up the book just to check it out and I started reading and I just didn't stop until I finished it. I read it all the way through. Just incredible and I loved it. It is out of control. Okay, forget about the Netflix series. Forget about that. Read the book. Okay. And then read the Manson book if you haven't already because you know, by Marilyn Manson's standards, the Motley Crue autobiography is almost cute by comparison. Okay, these next two. I was trying to get my thoughts together about these next two and I scribbled down this

• 14:24Jake Brennan?

  in my notes today. Chuck Berry's autobiography and Glow by Rick James. I was forced to reckon with a question that I'd encounter for the rest of my career. How the hell did these guys admit all this and get away with it and not end up in jail? I wrote that down too quickly because obviously if anybody knows it's me, they both went to jail. And the details in these books is the reason why. The more interesting question is how did they end up being sort of accepted back into, I don't want to say polite society. I guess with Chuck Berry, I mean, yeah, before Chuck Berry died, there was this massive event for him at the John F. Kennedy Memorial Library in Boston.

• 15:09Jake Brennan?

  I remember it and you know, a lot of, you know, Boston moving areas anyways were there. And I remember just thinking like, I had a little FOMO because I wasn't there and I probably could have figured out how to finagle my way in at the time, but I just didn't. But at the same, at the same time, I was also kind of like, what? You guys all know what this guy did, right? Like you know, not right. I know you know, you're too smart not to know.

• 15:39Jake Brennan?

  You know, we're just ignoring it. It's all in this book. It's crazy. It's crazy. And I know he invented rock and roll. And I know that's a controversial statement. I didn't say it flippantly. I actually believe that. But yeah, he also did some pretty, pretty, pretty fucked up stuff and admitted to it. And in a lot of cases, didn't apologize for it. Rick James never really had, was never really involved with polite society. I don't think, even, even in the seventies. I don't know. Maybe, but not really.

• 16:20Jake Brennan?

  And then, but still, you know, after all the stuff with the abduction of women and the burning them with crack pipes and he's still Rick James, bitch. You know what I mean? Like he was, he was still kind of a cultural touch point. And when you read this book in particular, Glow by Rick James, as opposed to Chuck Berry's autobiography, Glow by Rick James, um, which was finished after he died, if, if I, if I'm remembering correctly. So it's not a pure autobiography. But man, man, oh, man. What he admits to in the pages of this book are, are shocking, shocking. And I needed a break after I read it. That's how shocking it was. So those are a few.

• 17:05Jake Brennan?

  There's a ton, ton of others, ton of others. If you're into mid-century New York and, and mafia history, then Tommy James is me, the mob and music. That's a must read. Rod Stewart's Rod is surprisingly readable and smart. Keith Richards' Life is practically canon at this point. Also Keith wrote it with author J R Moeninger, if that's how you pronounce it. J R Moeninger also has a memoir called The Tender Bar. It's about his life and it is incredible. Not a music book, but it's incredible. I think, um, I think that's the one that, uh, George Clooney and Ben Affleck, Affleck, Affleck, Affleck, Ben Affleck, why can't I say that all of a sudden?

• 17:47Jake Brennan?

  Turned into a movie, uh, The Tender Bar, filmed it up in, um, where'd they film it, Sean? Salem? Help me out. Is it Salem where they filmed it? I think they filmed it in Salem. Somewhere up there, Haverhill, something like that. Similarly, I believe Henry Rollins ghostwrote David Lee Roth's autobiography, but I'm not sure about that. If anyone wants to track that down and let me know, it'd be super appreciated. And so here's, here's a couple more that I'm just, I haven't read, but I'm psyched to read. Carrie Brownstein's Hunger Makes Me a Modern Girl, Richard Hells, I Dreamed I Was a Very Clean Tramp, and Melissa Oftemar's new 90s memoir, Even the Good Girls Will Cry.

• 18:31Jake Brennan?

  And I'm, I'm also, you know, related to that because Melissa was in Hole. I am stoked, I'm just stoked. Very excited to see this Courtney Love documentary, when and if it ever comes out, which the rumors are it's coming out this year. Let's hope so. All right. But I think if you're asking me what my favorite musician autobiography or memoir is, in terms of pure enjoyment, kind of an unconventional choice here, but I think I would have to say Beastie Boys Book by Michael Diamond and Adam Horvitz, which is about as inventive as you can get. That said, it's not just an autobiography. Yes, it kind of is. It's part memoir.

• 19:16Jake Brennan?

  It's also part oral history with accounts from folks who were there with the Beasties during their formative and, you know, the most impactful moments in their careers. It's also part scrapbook. It's part mixtape. It's just incredible. And the band doesn't shy away from their worst moments, specifically the honesty that they bring to the less than noble way in which they treated original drummer Kate Schambock, or the embarrassing way in which they handled becoming the dick joke that they were trying to tell with License to Ill. All that said, if you're a fan of 80s, 90s culture, you're not, not just hip hop music, not Beastie Boys fans, whatever, just, you're just a fan of that history, that time in American culture. This book's great.

• 19:59Jake Brennan?

  It's just great, truly great inventive storytelling, and it is worth a place on your shelf, if not in your beach bag this summer. Again, even if you're not a Beastie Boys fan. I wouldn't bring it to the beach. It's a good book, good like hardcover. You know what I mean? I wouldn't ruin it with all that sand. All that stuff. All right. So as you guys know, on the subject still Seth writes a bunch of stories in Disgrace and so there's a whole slew of musician autobiographies that he's read that I haven't and some real classics like Peter Hook from New Order's book and Robbie and Levon from the band, their books. And Zeth is also the man who helms Hollywood land. So he's

• 20:40Jake Brennan?

  read more memoirs and autobiographies from Hollywood than I have, but I don't think he's read Arrow Flynn's autobiography. I also don't think he's read You'll Never Make Love in This Town Again, like I have. So I'm excited to talk to Zeth about his favorites, including those from La La Land, not just from music. In the exclusive section of this after party coming up shortly, go to disgracelandpod.com to sign up to become disgraceland all access members to unlock exclusive content like this, plus ad free listening. All right, looking ahead, as we just announced this week, rewind episodes are now hitting on Sundays, people, okay? Sunday, Sunday, Sunday. So this

• 21:24Jake Brennan?

  Sunday, while you're up, you know, up late in the morning, you know, making your eggs and baking or whatever, shepherding your kids around in the car, chilling in the garden out back, whatever you're doing this Sunday, fire up your podcast app, check out a classic episode of Disgrace. And this weekend, we are headed down the seven mile road of excess and cocaine enemas with Stevie Nicks and the rest of Fleetwood Mac. You're gonna wanna, you're gonna wanna be there with us. You're gonna wanna come on this trip with us. All right. And next week, next week, after that, it is finally here, the launch of our new season, our new episode on Patti Smith, and I cannot wait for you to hear this opus that we've put together. It's about as true crime and rock and roll as you can get. And when you're listening,

• 22:10Jake Brennan?

  Be thinking about your favorite rock and roll memoirs or music history autobiographies and come back to me with your recommendations, even if they're ones that we've already spoken about. Sometimes getting consensus on a book is critical to getting someone to crack open said book. And I really want to inspire a solid summer reading list here for you guys and myself over the course of this, this episode and the next after party. So next week's question of the week is going to be, which musician memoir or autobiography would you recommend? 617-906-6638, voicemail and text, at disgracelandpod on Instagram,

• 22:50Jake Brennan?

  Facebook and TikTok and sometimes X. [email protected] on the email machine. I will be back after this with your voicemails and texts, DMs and more.

• 23:15Speaker 05

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• 23:44Jake Brennan?

  I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau St. Michelle. They've been leading Washington wine since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive, and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau St. Michelle.

• 24:28Speaker 04

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• 25:44Jake Brennan?

  All right, back in the saddle, down on the corner, out on the street, sitting in the waiting room, aha, in the phone booth, it's the one across the hall. I'm hanging on the telephone with you guys, 617-906-6638. Let's check out what Lilly has to say in Northern California.

• 26:01Speaker 00

  This is Lilly from Northern California. Just responding to the episode from last week about, episode question about favorite movie soundtrack. And man, I have a couple in mind, but I think Adventureland is my favorite. Also, that movie is so underrated, but I mean, the soundtrack really just has so many amazing songs, like from The Replacements, Velvet Underground, Bowie, New York Doll, Big Star. I mean, just incredible, and I just love that movie so much. I discovered it at a kind of a formative place in my life, and it just has stuck with me ever since.

• 26:46Speaker 00

  And also, it's just such an underrated movie all around. Great cast, just great cinematography, everything. I love that movie so much. But some of my other picks... For best soundtrack were Empire Records, Pump Up the Volume, Pretty in Pink, Donnie Darko, 20th Century Women, I mean, and of course, Almost Famous, which is also one of my other favorite movies.

• 27:11Jake Brennan?

  Lily, thank you for the message. I think you were intending Seth to get that message, but since Seth and I have this soundtrack conversation that is ongoing,

• 27:22Jake Brennan?

  I thought I would jump in here because you mentioned Adventureland, and I've never seen Adventureland ever. And I love your depiction of the movie in the soundtrack and your passion for it. And I am inspired to watch it now, and maybe it will end up being an episode of our video podcast, This Film Should Be Played Loud. So, thanks for the message. I'm gonna, when I talk to Seth, I'm gonna let him know to check it out as well. All right, let's see what the 323 has to say.

• 27:50Speaker 06

  Jake, there is no Britpop without these two bands, Stone Roses and Inspiral Carpets. In fact, Noel Gallagher was the guitar tech for the Inspiral Carpets and wrote many of those Oasis songs while teching for the carpets. Also, you need to look into the Happy Mondays, specifically the recording of one of their albums in Barbados. They literally sold furniture from the recording studio to buy crack, stories of driving cars to the front of bars. It's fucking wild. Anyway, love the show.

• 28:24Jake Brennan?

  All right, 323, thank you so much for the message. You know, Inspiral Carpets, I did mention them, actually, I don't know if I mentioned them in the Oasis episode. I knew Noel Gallagher guitar teched for them and that that's where the Oasis songs first came together. I might not have even mentioned them, but I did, I do remember reading about them in that research. But yeah, I hear, I hear you on the importance of the band, given, given what they meant for Noel and Oasis and in Oasis lore. And I cannot wait to get into this Happy Mondays story. You sound stoked, I'm stoked. It's gonna be, I think, not the next one I research and write, but within the next handful.

• 29:06Jake Brennan?

  Okay, so that means it'll be out this year at some point. Thanks for the call, 323. All right, guys, 617-906-6638. You want to get in touch with me about anything. You can voicemail, you can text, you can call me, you can text me, you can email me, [email protected]. Jason from the 416 texts in with, "Hey, love the podcast. Happy anniversary. Listening to the latest episode and thinking about the rock and roll books that started it all for me." And it is "No One Here Gets Out Alive" by Danny Sugarman and Jerry Hopkins. I remember reading it one summer when I was in my middle teenage years, working as an attendant behind a desk in the change room of my local pool, handing out towels. In fact, I think all the guys that worked at the pool read this

• 29:50Jake Brennan?

  book because we passed that old dog-eared paperback around all summer. Since then, I've read many rock and roll bios and autobios. So when I discovered your podcast, Disgraceland, it was a no-brainer for me, and I've been listening ever since. Rock-a-rola. "No One Here Gets Out Alive," one of the seminal biographies, rock and roll biographies, about Jim Morrison. I think that's the book that Oliver Stone based most of the movie on anyways. And man, it must have hit you, 416, at the exact right time. I feel like just teenage boys in the, I don't know how old you are, Jason, in the sort of 80s, 90s. That was the sweet spot for being turned on to Jim Morrison from the doors. Sounds

• 30:35Jake Brennan?

  like that's exactly what happened at the pool you were working at, too. 774 texts in, "Just finished the Dead episodes. Good shit. I've been ahead my whole life. I grew up a hardcore kid in the Worcester area in the 90s. I wish Castor and I had one more album. Would love another reunion. Thanks for all the enjoyment, Dan." Dan in the 774, thanks, brother. That ain't happening, unfortunately, but it's nice to know people care. And if you saw, if you went to see Castor and I back in the day, thank you, and happy you're a Deadhead. I like that trajectory from punk kid to Deadhead. It makes sense. Doesn't feel like it makes sense, but trust me, it does. 646, good morning. Love Foo Fighters, but love Nirvana way more.

• 31:21Jake Brennan?

  Yeah, I guess taste is taste, right? You're gonna listen to something more than you're gonna listen to something else based on your taste. The more I've been listening to Foo Fighters and doing this research over the last couple of weeks, is the more I come to realize, you know, I'm kind of Foo Fighters' first two albums, those are the records I like. I've never really, I've never sought out Foo Fighters' music on my own to listen to after that, until, until probably the last few years. And every time I would hear a single, I'd just kind of be like, this ain't for me. And what I realized is, the singles that come, you know, on the third, fourth albums and beyond,

• 32:06Jake Brennan?

  they weren't necessarily made for me. They were made for the world at large, and they were made to be delivered onstage in stadiums. And I think what changed for me was I saw, I've seen Foo Fighters live, and that had a lot to do with changing it, because I loved those songs that I previously didn't like, hearing them live, the bigness of them. But even before that, before I saw them live, I saw that Wembley Stadium gig that they did. I think it was an HBO special or something that ran it. And it was incredible. It's just amazing. And it really, it really gave me a new appreciation for the Foo Fighters, and I kind of didn't realize why until now, because I'm so deep in it, in the research.

• 32:51Jake Brennan?

  Anyhow, that's my take. I love Nirvana as well. I've gone back and I kind of, I listened to Nevermind for the first time in a long, long time as an album the other night when I was waiting to get on the plane. And my God, it's so good. It's explosive. All three of their records are incredible for different reasons, and they're all different. You know, it's like that, they're real, those, that run of records, man, it's just great. They're not repeating themselves in any way, but that one, that one, my goodness.

• 33:25Jake Brennan?

  941 texts in, "Hey Jake, absolutely love your show. Amazing work. I'd really love to hear an episode on Shannon Hoon and Blind Melon. Definitely the most underrated beautiful band from the 90s. Thank you. Keep up the good work." 941, you are in luck. We've got a Shannon Hoon episode coming your way in a couple of months. Sammy, S-A-M-I, from the 765 texts in, "Hey, I know this subject is literally two years too late, but I love that in the Mariah Carey episode, you specifically mentioned 'I'm Real' by J Lo and Ja Rule, because the drumbeat at the beginning of each segment after a break in the bonus episodes always makes me think of the drumbeat to the beginning of 'I'm Real.'" And then that's stuck in my head for eternity. Best. Sammy, S-A-M-I.

• 34:07Jake Brennan?

  Sammy, I like the way you spell your name. And I like that DisgraceLand got something stuck in your head. Makes me think we're doing our jobs right. 302 writes in, "Really? No mention of Stone Roses?" We talked about Stone Roses. 302's referencing our after-party last week on Britpop. And yeah, we mentioned Stone Roses. I mentioned them. I did. I think I said they don't belong on the list. Sorry. But I do think I said that. I love Stone Roses, but they predate the era we're talking about. That's why they got mentioned, but they weren't on the list. You know what I mean?

• 34:49Jake Brennan?

  405 writes in, "Hey Jake, I am late to the most badass women in music party, but how can we leave out Dolly Parton? Not enough time to list the reasons why. Love the podcast." That's in the 405. We talked about Dolly Parton. I remember I read a text or an email where someone called in and said, I don't remember what they said, but it was about Dolly Parton. I think, or maybe that was just a conversation I had with somebody in person. It's all blending together. Yeah, I don't know how you talk about badass women in music history and not Dolly Parton. If I did that, I'm forever sorry, because that's a huge, huge miss. Still trying to figure out how I'm gonna write a Dolly Parton episode and make it Disgraceland-y. I think I have to go the Porter Wagoner route. I don't think

• 35:32Jake Brennan?

  I can do it just on Dolly. Because, you know, Dolly didn't do much, you know what I mean? Not a lot of bad stuff there. Not a lot of darkness, as far as I can tell. Melissa from the 619, I hear you on Anne and Nancy Wilson. Santiago in the 214, appreciate your television rec for Paradise on Hulu. I'm curious, if I get into it, I'll let you know. KB from the 802, in response to the question of the week, the most badass women in rock, it's either Joan Jett or Wendy O. Williams. Man, a lot of people, lot of people, lot of people mentioning Wendy O. Williams and Joan Jett.

• 36:13Jake Brennan?

  617-906-6638, you guys want to mention anything to me, hit me up on text, hit me up on voicemail. You can also email me, [email protected], and you can hit me up at disgracelandpod on the socials. All right, guys, listen, Zeth and I, Dr. Lundee that is, we're going to be doing television and movie recommendations, some of them music-based, a lot of them music-based, over in the rap parties that are happening in the Hollywoodland feed every week. And I have got a show, okay? I'm done with Love Story, I'm done talking about John F. Kennedy Jr. and Carolyn Bissett in the 90s, and I'm not done talking about the 90s, but I'm done talking about that dumb

• 36:54Jake Brennan?

  show that I loved so much, and I'm now very upset it's gone, but I have a new show, and it's way better, and I don't have to, you know, tell people I'm watching it in hushed tones, because I'm embarrassed by it. Not that I was embarrassed by watching Love Story, I don't give a fuck what people think about what I watch on television. And everybody deserves a good guilty pleasure, who am I to deny myself of that? But this show that I'm watching is awesome, and I meant to watch it years ago, it came out about four or five years ago, I think, and I just missed it, I missed it, I think, because I didn't have my Hulu password or something, I don't know what the reason was,

• 37:36Jake Brennan?

  but I haven't even told Zeth about this, because I can't wait for his eye roll, but I'm going to convince him that it's great, and I'm going to get him to watch it, and hopefully get you guys to watch it as well. And there's some good music involved, okay? That's going to be happening over in the rap party, starting next week, we're going to be doing our recommendations over there, most of our recommendations, I should say, because, before I get to the because.

• 38:03Jake Brennan?

  Speaking of Zeth in Hollywoodland, Zeth does the Rap Party, Zeth does the archive episode of Hollywoodland on that week's subject, like for instance, this week, it's, it's Brandon Lee from The Crow. And then he comes in with the Rap Party bonus episode, where he, he does sort of his expanded take and talks to you guys and get to your feedback on that week's subject, again, Brandon Lee. And then, at the end of the week, he does what's called the screening room, where he tees up a movie that we're all going to be watching that weekend, and talking about when he comes back the following week with the Rap Party. Okay, so it's all kind of strung together there. And this weekend,

• 38:47Jake Brennan?

  we're all watching The Crow with Brandon Lee. So there you go. That's what's happening over there. Get into the Hollywoodland feed on the iHeart Podcast app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're listening to podcasts, make sure you subscribe to Hollywoodland. The recommendations are, in part, kind of, low key, the thing I, I love talking about, you know, music and film together is kind of right up there, music and crime, obviously, but Rex, you know what it's like. You get out, you see your friends, what are you watching? What are you listening to? You know, you can't wait to talk about it. And Zeth and I are going to start to do that with more frequency over in the Rap Party. So make sure you're subscribed to Hollywoodland. Okay. One of the things I'm going to start

• 39:29Jake Brennan?

  doing here, going forward in the afterparties, are these song recommendations. I have found that in this attention economy that we're living in, I often like it when somebody recommends a song to me now, rather than a, than a new artist that I haven't heard. It's just so overwhelming. Like, where do you even start? You know what I mean? And everything's all messed up now, because if you go to Spotify, you're not gonna, you're not gonna get introduced to an artist the way that you got introduced to it as a kid. You know, you're gonna get like their most downloaded whatever, which is, could be just because it was covered by somebody, you know what I'm saying? So I like it when somebody just recommends a song to me. So that, that's been spinning around in my

• 40:12Jake Brennan?

  brain lately. The other thing that's been spinning around in my brain lately, is I'm trying to not become a cliche, old guy, middle-aged guy, whatever guy, who's just grumpy about new music. At the same time, I am grumpy about new music.

• 40:35Jake Brennan?

  You know, one of the things about being a man is as you get older, you have to fight the urge to sort of calcify into this version of yourself that never changes. You know, it's a stereotype, I'm generalizing, but, but men kind of, they just kind of get stuck in their ways, more than women do, I have found. Anyways, I've certainly found this with myself. It's one of those things I don't like about myself. You know, we get long lives, short lives, however you look at it. We want them to be the best lives, the most rich lives, the most robust lives. I know there's great music being made and

• 41:17Jake Brennan?

  being released constantly, but I do have real, serious beef with modern music. And I've realized over the last couple of weeks, my beef with modern music is more about guitar-based modern music, rock and roll. First of all, I just can't stand the fact that rock and roll, guitar-based rock and roll is no longer part of popular culture. It doesn't dominate or lead popular culture the way that it did when I was growing up. And I can't do anything about that. On the, at the same time, you know, I've realized that what's happened to guitar music in the last two decades is this sort of mass movement toward recording

• 41:59Jake Brennan?

  in the box and recording with digital tools. And I don't mean just recording to Pro Tools instead of tape. I mean, using digital plugins and, and apps as opposed to using outboard gear. And I don't want to bore you with the technicality of it all, but I can hear the difference. And it's a bum out. You know, when I listened to Led Zeppelin, that shit fucking blasts. Comes to life. I was talking about this a couple of weeks ago, you guys, my kid wanted to hear the Bee Gees and like, and Staying Alive came on and I was just like, oh my God, this is glorious. Not to mention the fact that everything is compressed by the time we hear it, you know, into ones and zeros on, on Spotify or Apple or wherever

• 42:41Jake Brennan?

  we're streaming our music, even on the radio, which has always been compressed. But anyhow. Modern rock music suffers the most from this. And everybody's doing it, basically. Barely anyone records to tape anymore, except huge artists, because it's super expensive. And God bless up and coming new artists. What are they gonna do? They gotta find a way to get their music out there. And that's just the economy we live in. That's just how things are done now. That's where we're at. But again, rock music suffers the most because we're used to hearing rock music be huge, punk, hardcore, classic rock, all the shit we grew up loving. You know, if that's what you're trying to get at

• 43:23Jake Brennan?

  as a guitar-based band now, and you're recording in the box, you're kind of fucked. You're never gonna get that bigness. It's really difficult. And I don't like it, if I'm being honest. I can hear it in a second. I can spot it a mile away. And I don't like it because I'm just, it's just not what I'm used to. Now, on the other hand, when it comes to electronic music, electronic-based music, electronic-based produced music, I don't mean like EDM, I don't mean like Kraftwerk. You know, I mean like R&B, hip-hop, pop music, which for the last, beyond two decades, the last four decades, they've been using drum machines for all the pop music I grew up with in the 80s and 90s that I loved.

• 44:08Jake Brennan?

  Madonna, you know, all that stuff was not reliant on big guitars, big sounding guitars and big sounding drums. And if there were big sounding drums, again, it was created artificially. So I find myself now walking through the world, walking into a restaurant or just walking down the street and hearing a car drive by with the windows rolled down. And more often than not, when I hear things now and I go, huh, what's that? That's interesting. It's often always pop music, top 40 music, and it's not guitar-based.

• 44:41Jake Brennan?

  And I'm finally, for the first time in a long time, allowing myself to be curious about this and go, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait, what is this? I kinda like this. Why do I like this? Oh, I like this because this is fucking awesome. It doesn't matter that they made it a year ago, or two months ago, or three years, or whatever. It doesn't matter that it's pop music. It doesn't matter that it's R and B. It doesn't matter to me because in the seventies, I loved the Beach Boys. Because in the eighties, I loved Madonna. Because in the nineties, I loved En Vogue and Chade and Seal. I didn't know I loved Seal until recently, but I loved, you know what I mean? I loved that stuff. I wasn't actively seeking it out, it was just there. And now, when I hear it, I love it.

• 45:25Jake Brennan?

  So, I'm not going to deprive myself of modern music just because modern guitar music is in a rut right now. Now, the good news is, I think modern guitar music is going to come back. I really, truly do. I think the way it's recorded is going to change. You can't, you know, when you record with all of these, you know, electronic, like I said, outboard gear and plugins and everything is in the box, everything sounds the same. And musicians are going to get wise to that because listeners are going to get wise to that and they're going to stop listening. And then, we're going to go back to this sort of 180 degrees, back to recording in big rooms, in big studios. How we're going to do that, I don't know, but it'll happen, trust me.

• 46:08Jake Brennan?

  So, all of that is a long way to say that I'm going to start recommending, I'm going to do this thing with you guys every week called New Song, Old Song. Okay, I'm going to recommend one new song that I'm into and you can tell me if I'm crazy for liking it, or you can tell me if you love it, and you can recommend whatever new song or old song you want to recommend to me. I'm going to recommend one old song as well, okay? The old songs are easy, there's a gazillion of them. And these, I'm trying to pick songs where I'm trying to maintain this vibe, the spirit of like you hear a song for the first time that day and it just not only owns your day, it owns your week. You're like, fuck yeah, man. Where's that song? You grab your phone, I gotta hear that song. You know what I mean? That's what I'm going for here. So, we're going to do the new song first because that's going to be harder for me.

• 46:53Jake Brennan?

  And then, we're going to do the old song because that's going to be easier for me. You're going to do the hard things first in life. New song, Ever Since You Left Me, I Went Deaf. French Montana. I didn't know this about myself until about, I don't know, two days ago. I kind of love French Montana. I think there might even be a DisgraceLand episode there, which I might even be excited to write. I don't know. But I love this fucking song. It is fantastic. It's based on the riff for That's the Way I Like It by KC and the Sunshine Band. It's nasty. It's dirty. It's gonna make you, it's gonna do what a great song on a summer day is supposed to do. It's gonna make you wanna drive fast and drink, not necessarily in that order, or hopefully not in the reverse order. But you know what I'm getting at, right? It's a fucking banger. Ever Since You Left

• 47:37Jake Brennan?

  Me, I Went Death by French Montana and Someone Called Max B, who I don't know who that is. Released in this year, 2026, a couple of months ago, January, from an album called Coke Wave 3.5 Narcos. I don't know what the fuck that's about, but it sounds pretty rock and roll to me. So that's the new song. The old song, completely different, totally different. What is that Foo Fighters song? This isn't the song. What is that Foo Fighters song that goes, "Ah, I'm a new day rising"? That song's okay. When I first heard that song, I went, oh, he's, he got New Day Rising from Bob Mould. I guarantee that that phrase, New Day Rising, is rolling around in Dave Grohl's head because of Husker Du and Bob

• 48:22Jake Brennan?

  Mould. And New Day Rising, just a great song and a great album, not what I'm recommending. But I am going to recommend something related. I am researching Foo's, as I've been talking about, and I watched that documentary, and there's this part in like 2016-ish, Dave Grohl turns, you know, part of his house into a recording studio, and they do that, that album, Wasted Light with Rope. Great song. That song's great. Rope by Foo Fighters. And lo and behold, there's Bob Mould in Dave Grohl's house, recording with him. And it's awesome. It's great. It's great to see Bob Mould behind the mic, singing his ass off in that way that only Bob Mould can sing. What a voice.

• 49:05Jake Brennan?

  But I went back and I looked at New Day Rising, the album, because I just can't listen to this record enough. It is non-stop, no skips, great. However, the song, the one song I'm pulling from this album to recommend to you, my old song recommendation is "Celebrated Summer" by Husker Du on New Day Rising. Now, if you haven't heard that song, I invite you to throw that on the old stereo and turn it up and roll your windows down. So there you go. New song, "Ever Since You Left Me, I Went Deaf" by French Montana and some dude named Max B. Forgive me, Max B. I know not who you are. Maybe someday I will learn. And New Day, excuse me, "Celebrated Summer" by Husker Du. All right?

• 49:49Jake Brennan?

  Check those out. [email protected]. You want to email me any song recommendations, any recommendations at all. Go for it. Got an email from an old listener here, John McNeely, AKA Johnny Vinyl, who says, "Hey, I've been out of the loop for a bit on social media and podcasts, listening, but catching up with the less-than-handful of pods I listen to, which includes Disgraceland. Today, I was thrilled to see that you did wind up covering Mia Zapata, someone I'd suggested a couple of years ago, and you said it would be a tall order. Well, you did her in the Gits justice. My eyes even welled up. Only a few episodes had ever affected me like that. When I got home from work after having finished the episode on my ride home,

• 50:32Jake Brennan?

  I had to put on "Frenching the Bully." Don't know if you agree, but I've always heard Bad Brains and the riffs and breakdowns of the songs, absent and here's to your fuck. I've been a fan of both bands for decades, and I know you're a huge Bad Brains fan. I'm stoked for the Patti Smith episode, as she's one of my favorite people on the planet, and the Fuz episode. I was a big Dave Grohl fan and have made a complete 180-degree turn on those feelings for various reasons, but that's what makes me look forward to the episode. On a final note, my girlfriend and I started a YouTube channel called Spinning Flames, where we break down an artist and album while trying out hot sauces." That sounds awesome, Johnny. Johnny goes on to say, "Congrats on the 270 episodes."

• 51:15Jake Brennan?

  Thanks, Johnny. Appreciate you. And I appreciate the kind words about our Mia Zapata episode.

• 51:23Jake Brennan?

  All praise needs to go to Zeth Lundie for that one. He wrote that one. He worked the shit out of it. And as far as the Foo Fighters and your 180-degree turn on Dave Grohl, yeah, yeah, that's what I'll say. Yeah, you'll hear it a couple of weeks coming at you. Ty Gilpin on Instagram writes, "Hey, I think the most seminal British band of the modern era, one that changed everything and one that truly launched what would later become Britpop, has to be the Stone Roses. What a behemoth in the Gen X landscape for Britain."

• 52:00Jake Brennan?

  Can't argue with that. Turnstile recently covered "I Want to Be Adored" by Stone Roses. It's pretty damn good. My old band, Bodega Girls, used to cover that song as well. I loved playing it live. It was so fun. What a great band. And I can't wait. We'll do an episode on Stone Roses at some point. Guys, if you're digging the show, you want to support the show, a couple of ways you can do it. Go to disgracempod.com, sign up to become an All-Access member, or if you want to, you can go on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave a review. If I read your review here on the show and you hear it and you hit me up, 617-906-6638, I will send you some merch. Got to be patient, though. But

• 52:44Jake Brennan?

  the merch, it will come, as they say. XMain11 on Apple Podcasts writes, "Hey, outstanding production, audio quality, and research. This is some of the best free journalism on legendary rock stars and modern artists that you'll find. And you can listen to it. It can feel formulaic sometimes, but after all, it's a show. Can't be too mad about that. Some episodes are a slice of life on a given artist and some span decades." And I mean, the formulaic part, come on, that's on purpose. Sounds like you know that. We try to give you, you know, what you want, what you can expect. Every week, the same thing. And yeah, I like how you said, "Some episodes are a slice of life on a given artist

• 53:24Jake Brennan?

  and some span decades." Given our conversation on memoirs, memoirs, memoirs, and autobiographies, this review feels particularly on point. 617-906-6638. Get at me, XMain11, and I'll get you something in the mail. You guys want to leave a review for Disgrace and you can do so on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. All right, I'll be back after this.

• 53:56Speaker 05

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• 54:27Jake Brennan?

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• 56:26Jake Brennan?

  All right, again, All Access members, you get access to exclusive content, like the conversation that Zeth and I are going to continue having right now on Memoirs. Some from Hollywoodland, and some of them are pretty damn juicy, and I'm excited to talk to Zeth. Go to disgracelandpod.com to sign up to become an All Access member if you're not already.

• 56:58Jake Brennan?

  All right, guys, we are back. And as you know, 260-plus episodes of Disgraceland, that's a huge archive. Marilyn Manson, Beastie Boys, Brian Wilson, were some of the artists we mentioned in this episode. Matt, excuse me, Sean, who's mixing this one, is gonna have the show notes, excuse me, the episode information for those stories in the show notes here. And it'll be an easy way for you to find them if you're interested. Or if you've got questions on anything in our archive, hit me up, I'll try to get answers to you. Let's recap, shall we? Number one, this week, our special new season preview is available for you to check out right now. You're gonna get a look into all of the stories that we're doing in the next couple of months, a little bit of history on how Disgraceland came to

• 57:41Jake Brennan?

  be. You're not gonna want to miss that. Our rewind episode, this is number two, our rewind episode this week is Fleetwood Mac. It's a two-parter, Fleetwood Mac Part 1 and 2. Next week, that's right, Patti Smith, Ms. Patti Smith's coming your way, and I can't wait! Can't wait for you to hear this. Number four, Zest giving you those Hollywood and crime vibes over in Hollywood land. So make sure you are subscribed. Number five, this film should be played loud. I don't even think I mentioned that. That's our video podcast and we got a new one on Big Lebowski that's available for our Patreon listeners right now. Become an All Access member to check that out. Number six, 617-906-6638. Your voice keeps us digging into the dark corners of music history. So keep calling, texting with your answers to this week's question of the week, or whatever else you guys want to talk about. And number seven, don't forget Discos.

• 58:23Jake Brennan?

  This isn't just content, it's a community, a community of the obsessed and no one cares about music, books, records and the crime and grind. It ties them all together like you do and that is a disgrace. All right. Which date to choose? It's a hard one this week because we did that little Disgrace Land history in this week's special episode. So I'm looking back to the day Disgrace Land launched on February 13th, 2018. And here is what America was listening to on that day, according to the Billboard charts. Number one, God's Plan, Drake. Last week, not applicable. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, one.

• 59:08Jake Brennan?

  Number two, perfect, Ed Sheeran. Last week, two. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, 22. Number three, Havana, Camila Cabello, featuring Young Thug. Last week, Drake, one. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, one. Peak position, weeks on chart, three. Number four, Rockstar, post Malone, featuring 21 Savage. Last week, three. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, nineteen. Number five, Finesse, Bruno Mars, Cardi B. Last week, one.

• 59:48Speaker 06

  Quit talking and start mixing.

• 1:00:11Jake Brennan?

  Hey guys, time to dust off your detective skills while unwinding in the Caribbean on Virgin Voyages' second true crime voyage. It's back by popular demand, this five-night, adults-only escape set sail March 20, 2027, to Grand Turk in the Beach Club at Bimini. The difference between this year and last will be that I will be on the cruise this year, along with Zeph, and he and I will be taping a live version of DisgraceLand, along with podcast hosts from Exactly Right's Buried Bones, Podcast of the Year Award winners, Wisecrack, and other fan favorites. Get on this cruise with us, guys, and enjoy live podcast recordings, behind-the-scenes storytelling, exclusive meet-and-greets, and immersive true crime programming throughout this one-of-a-kind voyage. Head over to

• 1:00:56Jake Brennan?

  www.virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot. I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau St. Michelle. They've been leading Washington wine since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive, and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau St. Michelle.

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