The Power of Sunlight: Protocols for Better Mood, Sleep & Happiness

It's easy to assume that we'd be happier if we lived somewhere with more sunshine. But how much does sunlight actually matter? In this episode of Office Hours, I examine what the research says about the relationship between sunlight and happiness, why some people benefit more than others, and how much sunlight you really need. I also share three practical ways to build healthier light habits. — Brought to you by: • Noble Mobile https://noblemobile.com/arthurbrooks—With Noble, there is only one plan: The No-Bull Plan. It’s simple. It’s transparent. And if you use less data, you get cash back. Get an exclusive offer at:https://noblemobile.com/arthurbrookshttps://noblemobile.com/arthurbrooks • Helix Sleep https://go.helixsleep.com/audio-partner/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=brooks—A mattress designed for every body. Go to helixsleep.com/brooks http://helixsleep.com/brooks for 20% off sitewide, 25% off Luxe Mattresses, and 30% off Elite Mattresses for their Fourth of July Sale—Extended! ⁠ http://drinklmnt.com/Arthur— Where to find Arthur Brooks: • Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://arthurbrooks.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://arthurbrooks.com/ • In-person Retreats: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://retreats.arthurbrooks.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://retreats.arthurbrooks.com/ • Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.arthurbrooks.com/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.arthurbrooks.com/newsletter • X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/arthurbrooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://x.com/arthurbrooks • Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/arthurcbrooks/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/arthurcbrooks/ • Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/ArthurBrooks/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.facebook.com/ArthurBrooks/ • YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGuyFRjJQFGCKzfHTBvWM6A⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGuyFRjJQFGCKzfHTBvWM6A • LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-c-brooks/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-c-brooks/ • Email: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ mailto:[email protected] — Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (06:40) What the research shows about the effects of sunlight (07:57) What Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) is (11:40) The small percentage of people who react negatively to sunlight (13:17) How sunlight affects mood and the role of vitamin D (16:48) How much sunlight you need to get the benefits (19:34) Why some people overdo it with sunlight (27:25) Make sunshine a daily routine (32:35) Get your morning light even without the sun (34:23) When to avoid the light (35:25) Why you probably don’t need to move to be by the sun (39:38) Q&A: Finding meaning after a life change (41:34) Q&A: Relating to friends with different tolerance for conflict — Referenced: • The Meaning of Your Life: Finding Purpose in an Age of Emptiness: https://www.arthurbrooks.com/the-meaning-of-your-life • Meaning Membership:https://hub.arthurbrooks.com/the-meaning-membership • Arthur’s newsletter:https://www.arthurbrooks.com/newsletter • The Happiness Scale:https://learn.arthurbrooks.com/the-happiness-scale • The Pursuit of Happiness with Arthur Brooks:https://www.thefp.com/s/the-pursuit-of-happiness-with-arthur • The Meaning of Your Life Retreats: https://retreats.arthurbrooks.com • Outdoor daylight exposure and longer sleep promote wellbeing under COVID‐19 mandated restrictions: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8646753 • What is seasonal affective disorder?: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/seasonal-affective-disorder • ... References continued at: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.arthurbrooks.com/office-hours⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.arthurbrooks.com/office-hours — Production and marketing by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://penname.co/⁠.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:15Arthur Brooks?

  I want to talk today in a very summer-like episode about weather. Specifically, I want to talk about sunshine. I grew up in Seattle, Washington, known for its gloomy weather. We used to say, well, the good thing about all the gloom in Seattle is that people from California can't handle it and they go back. Now, the question is, is that nature or nurture? Are some people just naturally attuned to the sun? Or is it that what you grow up with really, really matters? We don't entirely know, but there are patterns that are useful for all of us to understand so that we can adopt sunshine in our lives in a very productive way. And that's what I want to talk about with you. How do you use sunny weather in a way where you will get happier, but in also a way that it's safe? How do you get the best effect without making faulty decisions?

• 1:05Arthur Brooks?

  Hi, friends. Welcome to Office Hours. I'm Arthur Brooks, your host. This is a show about the science of happiness, how you can bring more of it into your life and how you can share it with other people. This is a show for happiness teachers, as a matter of fact. Maybe you never considered yourself one. I am formerly. That's what my university pays me to do. But the truth of the matter is that most great happiness teachers are doing it in their ordinary lives. And that's what I want for you. That's why I provide this material. I'm very interested in public education just as much as I am in education inside my university. And that's the whole impetus. That's the whole motivation behind doing this podcast. Thank you for tuning in. I appreciate it an awful lot. If you like it, please do like and subscribe wherever you're watching or listening to this podcast. That helps us a lot.

• 1:50Arthur Brooks?

  It also makes it possible for me to indirectly deliver to you future episodes of this without you even asking for them, coming right to your mailbox in a timely way. Please also recommend this to friends. No doubt, if you like this, other people would as well. You can tell them about the show and we're naturally growing our audience mostly by word of mouth. So, thank you for your recommendations and I hope that it actually is helping your friends as much as it is helping you. That's what we're here to do. If you have any suggestions about what we're doing, please do write to me at [email protected]. That's our email address. Leave a review on Spotify or Apple and subscribe on the platform of your choice. If you'd like to go deeper on any of this material,

• 2:32Arthur Brooks?

  do please make sure that you subscribe to my newsletter. Every Friday morning to your inbox, you'll get 300 to 500 words on exactly these ideas. That's at arthurbrooks.com. That's my website slash newsletter. And if you want to do more stuff in person with the community of people who are interested in this, we have a great internet community. That's called the Meaning Membership. You can find that at my website. You can also find ways that you can get together in real life. IRL, that's retreats that we actually have. You can look for that at retreats.arthurbrooks.com. All together, we have lots and lots of ways to share these ideas. I hope you will continue to take these and share them with others as well. I want to talk today in a very summer-like episode about weather. And most specifically, I want to talk about sunshine.

• 3:16Arthur Brooks?

  Now, I've done other episodes that touch on this and I will do future episodes about weather in general, how you can actually find the place that's most in line with the kind of person that you are. But I want to talk about sunshine and how much you should get and how it actually interacts between psychology and biology in a way that you can use the nice weather, assuming that there's nice weather where you are, so that you can become a happier person. Now, there's a general association between sunshine and happiness. In March of 1974, I realize most of you were not born at that time. I was 10 years old. You can deduce my age based on that. In March of 1974, the number one pop song on the charts

• 3:58Arthur Brooks?

  was from John Denver, "Sunshine on my shoulders makes me happy." That was just a generally understood truth, as a matter of fact. And I remember hearing that. Of course, I was living in a place that didn't have much sunshine. I grew up in Seattle, Washington, known for its gloomy weather, as a matter of fact. We used to say, well, the good thing about all the gloom in Seattle is that people from California can't handle it and they go back. Of course, when you live in the West Coast, you think any bad thing that's happening in your community is because Californians are moving in. That's certainly what we thought when we were kids. And it was a pretty gloomy place, I have to say. Now, it was okay in May. It was okay in July. June was always had this weird weather pattern coming down from the Bering Strait. We used to call June "junuary," as a matter of fact,

• 4:42Arthur Brooks?

  because it tended to get all gloomy and et cetera. And the fact that I remember this is because precisely it wasn't sunny all the time, like in Southern California, where I now actually spend quite a good deal of time, a couple of months a year, as a matter of fact. Now, why do I spend a couple of months a year in Southern California if I was born and raised in a place that didn't have much sunshine? The answer is because I married somebody who needs more sunshine than me. My wife Esther is from Barcelona. Some of you may follow her work as well. We do a lot of stuff together, as a matter of fact. And Barcelona is like Southern California. It's sunny all the time, is Mediterranean. And people from there, boy, oh, boy, they can't, they just can't live without it. And the question, certainly true with my wife, by the way, when she's not around enough sunshine, she gets really, really grumpy. She doesn't like it at all.

• 5:27Arthur Brooks?

  And that's one of the reasons that we like to spend December and January in Southern California. I notice it as soon as we, you know, as soon as we get there, you know, we leave our stuff and we go down to the beach. We like to stay in San Clemente, California. That sounds familiar. That's because that's where Nixon went after he was disgraced and impeached and had to leave town. He resigned as President of the United States. He went to San Clemente, California. Boy, do I understand why he went there. Probably he got there and said, it's great not to be in Washington, DC. It's so beautiful. It's so nice. And we get there and as soon as we get there and go down to the beach, it's like a reawakening in my wife. It's really wonderful, as a matter of. I like it too, but she really has a big, a big reaction to it.

• 6:11Arthur Brooks?

  Now, the question is, is that nature or nurture? Are some people just naturally attuned to the sun? Or is it that what you grow up with really, really matters? We don't entirely know, but there are patterns that are useful for all of us to understand so that we can adopt sunshine in our lives in a very productive way. And that's what I want to talk about with you. How do you use sunny weather in a way where you will get happier, but in also a way that it's safe? In a way that it actually will be better for you? And then I want to talk, after I do that, I want to talk to you about what's more important than the weather and what are the sacrifices you shouldn't make to get sunny weather in your life? How do you get the best effect without making faulty decisions on the basis of it? Now, let's start with a basic question.

• 6:56Arthur Brooks?

  Was John Denver right? Does sunshine on your shoulders actually make you happy? And the answer is, in general, yes. There's a number of good studies on this. One from the Journal of Sleep Research from 2021. I'll put this in the notes. This is an article called "Outdoor Daylight Exposure and Longer Sleep Promote Well-Being Under COVID-19 Mandated Restrictions." So, this was actually data that were collected while people were, you know, stuck in the house and then they were given systematic exposure, more sunlight or less, just to see in this kind of quasi-experimental set of conditions, whether or not they would get happiness from the sunshine, per se. Really well-controlled study, really well-done. And what they found was that it is basically true. There are moderately positive effects of well-being

• 7:40Arthur Brooks?

  from participants when they're subjected to sunshine systematically. So, what this suggests is that almost anybody can have a mood increase with the right amounts of sunshine, but that some people get more of it. And that's one of the reasons that some people are more likely to go seeking it than others. There's both nature and nurture. There's environmental effects and there's probably also genetic effects that actually come from this. But just in general, yeah, good, good. Now, your results may vary because of some certain pathologies. And I want to talk to you about a couple of conditions under which sunshine is more important to you in a certain part of the population and in certain cases where for happiness, not just for health benefits or skin cancer or something, that you should be wary of direct sunshine exposure.

• 8:25Arthur Brooks?

  Okay, now, the first is the one that you've all heard of. You might find that come

• 8:31Arthur Brooks?

  February that life feels really bad. And now I worked for a long time at Syracuse University earlier in my career. So in my thirties and some of my forties, I was a professor at Syracuse University. And one of the things that I found was that people would come there from other parts of the country. I mean, professors are on a national labor market and, and they would move to Syracuse. And Syracuse is really, really cloudy. And there's this cloud layer that comes from the Great Lakes. So January, February, March, it snows all the time. It's not these big two and three foot snows. It's like six inches a day. Syracuse gets 120 inches a year. I mean, contemplate that in big years, a couple of hundred inches. But that's just in five, six inches at a time.

• 9:15Arthur Brooks?

  And that means it's cloudy a lot because it's snowing and, and you don't see the sun for a long time. Now that lends itself to all kinds of great and not so great things. But, but when it comes to the sun exposure, what I found was that people became unproductive in February. So I would be co-authoring with other professors and you know, I'm a Seattle boy. I can put up with it, but those are actually from California or wherever. In about mid February, when I was co-authoring a academic journal article or something, they wouldn't be getting their drafts in on time. Their work would be notably sloppier. They would be kind of looking disheveled and bummed out. They wouldn't, they wouldn't shave and like, what's wrong with you? And the answer is that they were depressed. Why?

• 9:57Arthur Brooks?

  Because a non-trivial number of them had a pathology, had a disorder called SAD. Seasonal affective disorder. Isn't that a clever acronym? SAD. And, and that's actually what we find in good academic studies. There's one from the actual National Institute of Mental Health from 2023 called seasonal affective disorder. Um, in the United States, like always, all the stuff goes in the show notes. You don't have to remember that or write it down. And it found that about nine percent of Americans have this seasonal affective disorder, which makes them more exposed to, to mood disorders when they haven't seen the sun in a long time. And they, they actually get more benefit from seeing sunshine, especially during winter months. So nine percent, that's, that's a lot.

• 10:41Arthur Brooks?

  That's not as many as people who actually like to see the sun and actually get a mood boost from it. But these are people who get especially depressed during long periods, including some of my colleagues. So if you think you have it, then you need to take care of that. I'll talk to you in a minute about actually how to deal with that because there's actually some interesting studies out of Scandinavia, where people don't see sunshine for a really long time and they've figured out new technical ways to get around it. So more on that in a second. Is it more prevalent in, in higher latitudes in the winter time? The answer is yes. And so you see some studies that show that places like Scandinavia have more like 12% of the population with seasonal affective disorder. And, and you get closer to that, you get down to Florida and it's like, you know, more like 5% or something like that.

• 11:24Arthur Brooks?

  I don't exactly remember the numbers, but it really does vary with respect to how far north you are. And probably it has to do with diagnosis more than the underlying genetic tendency to have this. Okay, good. Know that about yourself. It's really important. So what have we established so far? Most people, practically everybody gets somewhat of a mood boost by getting more sunshine. Some people really, really need it, or they're going to fall on the wrong side of an actual mood disorder. All right. Okay, that's what we've established so far. Let me let the plot thicken a little bit because there's new research. This is over the past 10 years that finds that some mood disorders are provoked by direct sunlight. Okay. Now it's not depression. It's actually anxiety and this is the cousin mood disorder.

• 12:10Arthur Brooks?

  Generalized anxiety is a cousin disorder of, of, of clinical depression. And what you find is that some people, they really struggle with their anxiety in really bright sunny times during the summer months, for example, or when they're spending a lot of time outside. It raises anxiety for them and there's a hypothesis as to why that's true. This comes from interesting research, an article entitled, Why We Need More Nature at Work? Effects of Natural Elements in Sunlight, Employee Mental Health and Work Attitudes. That's in PLOS One, which is an apex science journal. And the scholars hypothesized that, that it can stimulate certain neurobiological effects having to do with alertness, which disrupts sleep and they actually exacerbate attention and anxiety. You're too attuned.

• 12:53Arthur Brooks?

  In other words, it's turning up the dial a little bit too much on you. So that's an important thing to keep in mind. And I have met people who get really stressed out during the summer months and they don't know why, probably because they're getting too much sun. Okay. So in other words, it's a double edged sword. Do we know if that's as prevalent as seasonal affective disorder? No, probably not is what we find. But if that's you, it's important for you to know about that. More in a second about how you can use the sun and have the sun not actually be stressing you out along the way. But it's worth pointing that out. Okay. So we've established another pattern here. Let me go back to the first basic point, which is most people get a moderate mood boost. Why is that? And, and people who are non-pathological, why is sunshine actually good, generally good for your mood?

• 13:39Arthur Brooks?

  Before we get to how you can actually use the technology at hand in our lives and actually just use the sun better. One theory about why sunshine boosts mood is that it interacts with eyes, interacts with your eyes, which are intrinsically photosensitive in the retinal ganglion cells. And in so doing, that affects brain regions that regulate mood and indirectly through the regulation of circadian rhythms. In other words, it actually will affect your limbic system to, to give you more positive affect. And at the same time, it will make it such that when you're getting sunshine at appropriate times over the course of the day, that you're more likely to sleep when it's dark and be awake when it's light.

• 14:24Arthur Brooks?

  And that circadian rhythm makes you sleep better. And when you sleep better, you're happier. Those are the two mechanisms that actually have to do with the retinal ganglion cells in your eyes. And, and Andrew Huberman talks a lot about that because he, he actually teaches in the ophthalmology department at Stanford. He's a professor of ophthalmology, as a matter of fact. And so he talks an awful lot about how the eyes, which the eyeballs are the only part of your brain outside of your skull. But as a matter of fact, and so you can consider that a, you know, a direct effect on your brain itself. So that's the first reason that sunlight is important for your mood. The second has to do with what sunlight produces biologically. And that's vitamin D.

• 15:04Arthur Brooks?

  We all know that vitamin D is produced by sunlight exposure and that has antidepressant and anxiety reducing effects for most people. The anxious people aside that I just talked about a minute ago. It's interesting because we've always known that vitamin D is produced endogenously by the body. When you, when you're exposed to direct sunlight on your skin. But of course, a lot of people, especially at high latitudes and who live in gloomy areas, they have to supplement with, with vitamin D tablets. There's some people who believe there are some, not just nutritionists, but some scientists actually believe now that, that, that taking vitamin D in this way is not very effective. That's probably not the mainstream view and everything in this is contested.

• 15:47Arthur Brooks?

  But what they would suggest is that you need that vitamin D for sure for mood benefits and other physical benefits. But the only good way to get it is actually through the sun as opposed to simply taking vitamin D pills. I take vitamin D pills. I get 5,000 IU per day and it's, I think it's really important also for hormone balance. But the whole point is that it might not be a perfect substitute for getting out in the sun. Okay. Now, why would this actually work? The mechanism has not been proved, but there are some candidates for why it might occur, why the mood boost might actually occur. That talks about the antioxidant activity and improved levels of monoamine neurotransmitters such as serotonin and dopamine. In other words, that the vitamin D3 might directly affect serotonin levels, keeping more serotonin in the synapse in your brain,

• 16:30Arthur Brooks?

  which means you, you're, you're less perseverant, you're less likely to ruminate on things. And, and you have higher levels of dopamine, which gives you more anticipation of reward, makes you less anhedonic. And, and anhedonia is a, a tendency to not enjoy things. And so you'll just find that you, you're, you ruminate less and you enjoy more when you have more D3. That's, that's probably the most likely reason that, that sunshine indirectly through vitamin D is mood boosting. Okay. Now, question, how much? How much sunshine do you need to actually get these benefits that I'm talking about here? And the answer is less than you think, actually. For simple vitamin D synthesis, for example, the estimates range from between nine and 15 minutes a day of direct sunlight.

• 17:15Arthur Brooks?

  That's not very much. That's not enough to get a horrible sunburn unless you're really, really super sensitive because of your skin. That depends on season, of course, and location and, and, and self-evidently that depends on skin type. And this is something also that, that Andrew Huberman has talked about, about not, you know, needing more than a few minutes a day of direct sunlight. More than this, and the effect probably does not increase. You probably don't get benefits from it, from that. And that's not very much, of course. Many people get a lot more than this. A lot of people, maybe some of you who are watching this, you like to lay out in the sunshine, like lie around the pool. I mean, Mrs. Brooks, she likes lying around the pool, trust me.

• 17:57Arthur Brooks?

  And you know, we live in Northern Virginia, uh, most of the time when we're not in those couple of months a year in Southern California. And we have a nice pool and it's really great. And in the summertime, she's out there. She really, really likes it. She gets more than nine to 15 minutes a day, suffice it to say. She has a skin type that, that doesn't get easily damaged by the sun because her skin is a little bit darker, certainly a lot darker than mine. But some people are just real sun worshippers. They take that to a real extreme. Now here's the obligatory dermatologist warning. I'm not a dermatologist, but we've all heard this since we were kids. There's tons of it is that too much sun exposure leads to skin damage and aging and various cancers. So, you know, sitting out there without any sunscreen for a really long period of time is probably not ideal.

• 18:41Arthur Brooks?

  But the research has, you know, it tends to, we tend to take things to a really extreme degree. You know, when we find out that something's bad for you, then everybody like doesn't eat it at all. I remember from the 1990s, when it turns out that every, when we demonized fat in the diet and nobody ate fat. Stop the insanity. Stop eating fat and everybody stopped eating fat. And it was horrible for people. People got more osteoporosis and, and they got all kinds of weird body dysmorphias and they, it, it affected their brains in some optimal ways. And, and that was bad advice. Don't eat too much fat is what it should have been, but that's not catchy, is it? So when people started talking about how bad the sun was, then of course, parents were just lathering their kids up with tons of sunscreen.

• 19:26Arthur Brooks?

  And, and then they started to get vitamin D deficiencies, et cetera, et cetera. We need to be balanced and sane about these types of things. And so don't take the possibility of skin cancer to be any indication that you should never have any direct sunlight. You just need to not get sunburned, for example. Be normal is the bottom line of what I'm talking about. Now here's the question. Why is it that some people, they just? They want way, way, way more than they need. One obvious answer is that in our culture, we've decided that having a deep, dark suntan is a sign of good health. And it's, it makes you really attractive and people want to be attractive and look healthy. These are reproductive fitness cues, especially in women is what you find.

• 20:08Arthur Brooks?

  And, you know, I've talked a lot about this, about the evolutionary biology of basic attraction between members of the species and reproductive fitness and youth and signs of good health are something that we really want to exhibit, which is one of the reasons that people want long glossy hair, women do. White teeth, for example, a symmetric face, waist to hips ratio. And these are all sort of calculations and things that members of the species, opposite sex members of the species notice. And one of the things is actually having a lot of vitamin D, which is, you know, exposure to the sun is good and so a little is good. And so people have taken it and a lot is better. And so having a deep, dark tan is considered to be an attractive thing.

• 20:48Arthur Brooks?

  For all of the evolutionary biological reasons that I just covered, that's one reason. But there's also the possibility that this is a genetic tendency to sun worship. And there's really super interesting research that suggests that that is exactly the case. Article from the Journal of Investigative Dermatology. Yes, there is a Journal of Investigative Dermatology. For all you forensic dermatologists out there, this is from 2021, that that's looking for the genetic predisposition to exposure to sunshine. And it turns out that some people almost certainly have a genetic tendency to do that. And the way that you look at this, by the way, is of course by looking at sibling studies and twin studies and identical twin studies and parent child studies to see.

• 21:34Arthur Brooks?

  And there's all kinds of good statistical techniques to, to net out what part of almost any behavior is nature and what part is nurture. Anyway, this study suggests that 58% of sun worship, of sunbathing is actually based on a genetic tendency to want to do so. Okay, so why, why would that be the case? Here's an interesting clue to why somebody might be genetically interested in taking a lot more sun than they need to. That genetic tendency is highly positively statistically correlated with a tendency to overuse drugs and alcohol. Huh, especially cannabis, cannabis and alcohol use. If you want, if you crave, if you like to get high,

• 22:17Arthur Brooks?

  you also more than likely like to take a ton of sun. What's that all about? Now, one possibility is that as excessive drug and alcohol use are a risky behavior that people will engage in because they, they have a, they have a low aversion to risk. They're kind of this risk seeking is, which is also genetic generally, that that's, those are risky behaviors and sunbathing is a risky behavior and all risky behaviors go together. So that's one hypothesis. You take all kinds of risks like, like smoking dope and getting, and getting drunk and laying out for three hours a day. That's one interpretation. Another interpretation that I actually favor, that I think is actually more plausible is this.

• 22:58Arthur Brooks?

  Sun exposure probably soothes people with natural substance use and mood disorders. Now, one of the things that I've talked about in this show and that is sort of common sense is the people who drink a lot and like to use drugs, they often are self-treating natural levels of mood disorder, not maybe not mood disorders to the point that are, that are, that are clinical, that require, you know, pharmacological intervention, but they might be uncomfortable with levels of anxiety. And there's some evidence that one of the best predictors of alcohol use, overuse, is that you're anxious person, you know, anxious people with, with hard jobs. They tend to drink more than people who don't, right? And they're self-treating, obviously. This is just medication in one sense.

• 23:44Arthur Brooks?

  So if that's the case, then if you have a tendency to perhaps have a subclinical level of anxiety or, or depression and you want to use drugs and alcohol, or you do use drugs and alcohol, another thing you might do as well is just like lay out longer than you need to, to take as much sun as you possibly can to max out the mood boost you could possibly get. This is a way that you're, you're trying to treat yourself as a matter of fact. As a matter of fact, maybe that's one of the ways that you can stay off the sauce. I find that it's easier for me to not get high if I'm laying out all the time. I think that's actually, that's a pretty plausible explanation because that's one of the things that I see in a lot of my work, that people are always trying to treat themselves. People are always actually looking for something in their environment, behaviorally or chemically,

• 24:26Arthur Brooks?

  to balance some sort of a storm that's going on in their heads. I see this constantly with my students. I especially see this with high achievers and strivers. Some of you, there aren't that many people who, who consume this show, for example, who are not trying to live their best life while you're watching this show is you want an edge, right? And good for you, but that also means that you're going to be naturally at risk for all sorts of anxiety related behaviors, such as drinking too much, for example, or in this case, maybe overuse of the sun. Right now, you're like Neo in The Matrix. You can keep scrolling, experiencing a simulation of life, or you can wake up to how your attention is being harvested for profit.

• 25:11Arthur Brooks?

  It's happening to people all over the world right now. You don't want to be productized like this anymore, but it's hard. Tech addiction is so potent because it's been designed to tap into your dopamine system, just like heroin, porn, gambling, you've got the cravings, you're addicted. You don't like it and I don't either, but I can't just tell you to stop doing it. That's hard. If you want to break free from the system, you need an incentive. Here's one. Why don't you join a phone company that pays you not to use your phone? If you want to reduce brain rot, get Noble Mobile. It pays you to use less data. It gives you an incentive to unplug. Noble Mobile is the phone plan that finally aligns incentives with what's good for you. Use less data, earn money back.

• 25:55Arthur Brooks?

  And when you do, you'll be living once again in real life and you're going to like how it feels. We spend a lot of time on this show on the big questions. Questions of meaning, relationships, the big whys of life. But none of it works very well when you're running on just a few hours of crummy sleep. Here's what the science actually shows. Poor sleep doesn't just make you tired, it can actually make you less happy. You can't build a meaningful life on frequent, chronic, broken sleep. So I take my sleep seriously. One of the best investments I've made in this area is my Helix mattress. What I like about Helix is that they recognize something obvious but important. Different people sleep differently.

• 26:39Arthur Brooks?

  Their website has a short quiz that asks about your sleep position, firmness preferences and other sleep habits. Then they match you with one of more than 20 mattress models designed around your specific needs. Once that choice is made, the mattress ships directly to your door. It's a simple idea, but it's surprisingly rare. Start with the person, not the product. If you're serious about improving your sleep and your happiness, visit helixsleep.com/brooks for 20% off sitewide and additional offers. Invest in your sleep. Everything else works better when you do.

• 27:17Arthur Brooks?

  Now, all told, what do we know? Evidence exists for a prudent amount of sun exposure to actually boost your mood and have greater happiness. That's especially true if you have seasonal affective disorder. That's especially not true if you have anxiety provoked by the sun. But for most of us, it's a good thing to do. So here are a couple of rules. Here are the, the basic rules for doing so, because as always, the point of this show is to give you protocols that you can actually use in your ordinary life. Number one, make exposure to the sun if you can. A daily routine like taking your, like taking your vitamins. Now, why do I say like taking your vitamins? I take a multivitamin. I've taken a multivitamin to balance out gaps in my, in my diet. I'm real serious about my nutrition.

• 28:01Arthur Brooks?

  I take my macronutrient profile really seriously. I eat a lot of cruciferous vegetables and get a lot of fiber. I also eat a very high fiber diet, et cetera, et cetera. But at the micronutrient level, sometimes there are holes because I travel constantly, for example. And I have found that I feel a lot better when I take a really super high quality multivitamin. This is not a pitch for a multivitamin. We don't have a multivitamin sponsor. You can find them all over the place, the good ones. There's a lot of them out there. But what I don't do is, given the fact that I have sometimes gaps and I take a multivitamin, I don't rush to the conclusion that I should take like 50 tablets of my multivitamin because more isn't better. There's a certain measured dose, that's the right dose. Zero is not enough and more than two of the multivitamins that I take every day is too much.

• 28:45Arthur Brooks?

  And I know it's too much because there's all sorts of ways you could become unbalanced. That's the way to think about sunshine as well. Zero is probably not enough and lying out all day is way, way, way too much. The costs and benefits actually don't work out that way. Something you should do to take care of your body by doing regularly in the same way every day, if you can, is taking a little bit of sunshine. And this gets back to Huberman's work where he recommends incorporating five to 10 minutes a day, which is in that, you know, that, that basic, that basic level that I talked about from those studies before on how much is enough, less than you think. He talks about, you know, five to 10 minutes a day of direct sun exposure in a morning routine. That's, by the way, morning is important because that's before the sun rays are likely to burn your skin

• 29:29Arthur Brooks?

  and also they're at a nice angle for your eyes. And so that's when you can comfortably walk outside in direct sun exposure, but you don't need sunglasses. That's the way to do it. Getting five, 10, 15 minutes a day of that is really, really super good for you. If the day is cloudy, the exposure can still be beneficial, but you need to compensate by increasing the time outside a little bit. Lots of studies show, by the way, that it's not like you're not getting sunlight when it's cloudy. On the contrary, you're still getting a lot more exposure to the light than you would be inside under artificial lighting. So even a cloudy day, you're getting a lot, you're getting a lot of lumens there, but, but you need a little bit more than you would otherwise. This is, this is relatively common sense.

• 30:10Arthur Brooks?

  So, okay, every day if you can, in the morning before you need sunglasses and somewhere if it's really sunny around 10 to 15 minutes and a little bit more than that if it's cloudy. That's the basic protocol for that. All right, now, if you're one of those people for whom it provokes anxiety, then the way to do that is to get more indirect light exposure instead by actually sitting near a window. And there's a bunch of studies that actually show this too. That like sitting near a window where there's direct sunlight outside, but it's not directly on you is a way that you won't get the anxiety problems, but you will get the benefits of the, of the light exposure. Okay, so that's one way to deal with that. Second, uh, what if it's not sunny at all? It's a really gloomy time.

• 30:53Arthur Brooks?

  You're in Syracuse, New York, or you're in Seattle, Washington, or you're in London. And the answer to that actually comes from, uh, research from Scandinavia. Um, there's one interesting article from the Journal of Affective Disorders. It's a, a study on Finnish subjects. These are really, this is, these are really good researchers on this. This is an article from the year 2000, so it's pretty old now called Bright Light Improves Vitality and Alleviates Distress in Healthy People. And what they had was, uh, um, you know, a treatment and control experiment, which is the right way to do this randomized. And, and some of the subjects were sitting, uh, working for five days a week under six 15 watt cool white fluorescent bulbs while they were working.

• 31:35Arthur Brooks?

  And these were the ones compared to the, to the controls that experienced higher vitality and lower depressive symptoms. So it really worked. It was, is, is, is bright fluorescent, cool white fluorescent bulbs. I mean, pretty bright actually. So it's kind of like what I'm doing right here, here in the studio. This is pretty good, but for several hours a day, for five hours a day. That just shows you, by the way, how much more light you're getting from the sun in 15 minutes that you're getting from bulbs. But that can be necessary. If you're in Finland, if you've ever been in Finland, um, in the winter or the summer, you know, um, I was in Finland last summer on tour and it, you know, one of the things that I was recommended is getting up before the dawn. Because you've heard me talk about this before, if you've been watching the show, that if you get up before dawn, you get this brahma mahorta, the creator's time.

• 32:20Arthur Brooks?

  And research showing that it gives you greater productivity, greater focus, greater vitality for the rest of the day. If you experience the sunrise, it's really very magic as a matter of fact. I can't do that when I'm in Helsinki in July because the sun doesn't go down all the way. So you can't do that. Similarly, in February, you're not going to see the sun hardly at all when you're in northern Scandinavia. And so if this is anything like your experience, you're going to need to replicate the sun. And that's the way to do it is work under brighter light as you're working all day long than you thought you needed to with cool light fluorescent bulbs. Okay, that's a good way to do it. Studies show that that actually will help you an awful lot. Another study actually looks at a different kind of light, which is near infrared light exposure

• 33:05Arthur Brooks?

  and doing it in the morning, and that works as well. So do a little bit of internet research on this. It's not that hard. PubMed has got all these particular articles that the near infrared light exposure article actually comes from, uh, as from the Journal of Biology. That's a really great journal as a matter of fact. I'll put these in the show notes so you can read these articles if you actually want. A couple of ways, different ways to do it. But do it. Okay, now one note as a third point that I want to make for, uh, for light protocols is when to avoid the light. And of course that's at night. That's what I actually found when I was in Helsinki last summer, that it's hard to sleep. Hard to sleep because your circadian rhythms get all goofed up if you're really, really far north in the summertime. And that's what a lot of people find. They have a lot more energy generally speaking, but their, their, their, their, their sleep is, is goofed up

• 33:49Arthur Brooks?

  because there actually is too much light. For those of the rest of us that don't live that far north, it's important that you avoid unnatural light late at night. You're, you're not going to have to worry about it. Once it gets dark, it gets dark, but let your life get darker as it gets closer to bedtime. I've talked about this, everybody's talked about this, about the importance of not having a lot of light later in the evening and turning down the lights, getting dimmer light in your life, especially for the past, the last two hours before you go to sleep. And at, at, at all costs, if you can, avoid screens, uh, right, the, the light that comes from screens. There's a lot of work that suggests that blue light has a, a unique ability to interfere with the, the functioning of the pineal gland where you produce melatonin. Melatonin is what helps, you know, put you out at night.

• 34:34Arthur Brooks?

  And if you're not getting sufficient melatonin, you're keeping your cortisol levels high because you've been looking at a screen, that's going to be really bad for you. So what I recommend is that you dim your homes lights about two hours before bed and avoid turning on lights during the night if at all possible. So, I mean, you might have a red light in your bedroom so you don't, you know, kill yourself when you get up to go to the bathroom. Uh, because that's something that actually, actually doesn't light up your brain. Don't look at your phone in bed ever and make sure that you're putting your phone away about an hour before you go to sleep. That's the right set of protocols to actually protect your, your sleep architecture, the, which comes from melatonin release and the functioning of your pineal gland. So that's really what I recommend.

• 35:17Arthur Brooks?

  And by the way, putting your phone away an hour before you go to bed is going to be the best thing that's going to happen in your marriage or your relationship too. Trust me on this. And then look into each other's eyes and read her poetry. Anyway, I'm off point, but I do have one last point that I want to make here. People ask me all the time, should I move to get more sunshine? And when I was in Syracuse, this was always a big question. Should I retire to Florida? By the way, this is what everybody asks all over the East Coast of the United States. If you're in, in Seattle, you might say, should I retire to California? Should I retire to, to Scottsdale, whatever it happens to be? Should you move for the sun? And the answer is probably not, probably not.

• 36:01Arthur Brooks?

  Well, now here's what it depends on. It depends on what you're not, what you're moving to, but where you're moving away from. And this is all costs and benefits when it comes to happiness. Number one for your happiness, unless you have a, just a mega seasonal affective disorder problem, number one is not going to be the sun. It's going to be your relationships. It's going to be the people that you're with. It's going to be your family and your friends as a matter of fact. To move away from your family and friends to get your six to 15 minutes of direct sunlight a day is generally speaking, a really bad deal. Let me tell you about a, a famous study that, that more or less was in line with this. And you've probably heard about it. It's from, it's from David Schagati and, and Daniel Kahneman from Psychological Science. Once again, in the show notes.

• 36:46Arthur Brooks?

  It asked, um, midwesterners and Californians about what they thought the best weather was. And then it asked, um, who, who was going to have the happiness edge in which place? Now they all, they basically all agreed. Both the midwesterners and the Californians all said California's got better weather. Well, duh, you know, I mean, you don't have to be, you don't have to be, have a PhD to figure that one out. And they agreed that Californians had a happiness edge as a result of that. It turns out that the first is, well, subjectively at least, right? I mean, some people really like gloomy Cleveland in the, in the winter over sunny California. Different strokes, most people don't. But they were wrong about who had the happiness edge.

• 37:31Arthur Brooks?

  On the contrary, they found no difference in groups' self-reported life satisfaction. Even in the sunnier climate where California's weather did, at least according to the earlier research I cited, probably raised well-being, midwesterners had other advantages, natural advantages that equalized their happiness. In some cases gave them greater happiness. Among those advantages, doubtless were more close relationships that they had. Because something had to be balancing it out and it probably had to do something having to do with humans. Humans are everything. Love is everything. Relationships are everything. Do not sacrifice your love relationships because you think you're going to be a lot better off in the sunshine. That's probably not right.

• 38:16Arthur Brooks?

  Um, you know, for the last seven years I've been teaching at Harvard University and, you know, there's a, there's a, a little known obscure university I will not name in Palo Alto, California, that, um, sometimes takes a great interest in having Harvard professors move out to sunny Palo Alto, California. And here's how they do it. They invite Harvard professors out there to Stanford. Oops, I said it, great university, um, to give a seminar in February. Why? I don't know, just, why don't you come out and, why don't you come out and, and present your paper to our faculty and students in, in February? Okay, good, good. And inevitably, you know, knowing, uh, as some of my colleagues do, that I've done some work

• 39:00Arthur Brooks?

  on weather and happiness, they will ask me, so it was so great out there. How much happier would I be if I lived in a sunny place like Palo Alto? As opposed to a gloomy, snowy, dark place, at least in the winter, like Cambridge, Massachusetts? And here's what I say, because here's what the data kind of suggests. It will give you a significant mood boost. We've talked about that, but it's kind of temporary. It will only give you most of that mood boost for about six months. But the taxes are forever. Choose accordingly. And most certainly, don't move away from your family. Okay. You have to decide for yourself, but the bottom line is that

• 39:42Arthur Brooks?

  love matters even more than sunshine on your shoulders. Let's take a couple of questions before we're done. Tom writes in to the website at [email protected]. I was a firefighter and EMT and spent over 14 years working as an agent for the US Secret Service. Tom, thank you for your service. In my mind, I was living my calling, but it was cut short when I found out that I had an aneurysm in my aorta, which is serious business, obviously, and had to retire. He had surgery, he's all good, don't worry. But it's too late to go back to those things, he feels. What do you do or how do you go about finding your meaning when you feel like you had it and lost it? You had a career, real active career.

• 40:27Arthur Brooks?

  Now, I know something about Tom. Tom likes action. I got it. And he also likes serving other people with action. He's an act, he's a real, he's like Captain America. That's what Tom is, I get it. Now, here's the thing to think about. Not reminiscing about the what of your career, but getting in touch with the deep why of it. What's the why? What's the why that it actually gave you meaning? Because remember, he asked about meaning here. Meaning questions are why questions. Why do things happen the way that they do? That's coherence. Why am I doing what I'm doing? That's purpose. Why does my life matter? That's significance. Those are the meaning questions. And think about it in the context of your calling. Why am I going in a particular direction in my career?

• 41:11Arthur Brooks?

  That's the purpose of my job. But to think about the why is supposed to the specific what is the way to actually get back on track here? Follow the same why in a different context. Is my why truly to serve people who need me? Well, there are ways to do that without the action of those particular jobs. And that takes a little bit of introspection, maybe a lot of introspection. Service, maybe that's less kinetic, but that is actually more connective with people might be the way to do that. But you're not, Tom, you're not going to get it by thinking about the what that you're missing, but rather the why that you can get in other contexts. Good luck. Kirabo Vanessa writes in also to the website.

• 41:51Arthur Brooks?

  What is the right thing to do for a friend who sometimes doesn't speak the truth? Now, what I'm assuming here is that your friend is not lying, but your friend is simply not saying hard things. Okay. So a friend who's not willing to come out and talk about hard things with you. That's what, that's my assumption of what this means, Kirabo Vanessa. What is the right thing to do for a friend that sometimes doesn't say the truth? Could it be that for them, they're not interested in having a deep friendship? Now, this is a really important difference between different kinds of people. If you are the kind of person who's very comfortable with confrontation, you are in a part of the personality matrix that's high conflict and high honesty,

• 42:34Arthur Brooks?

  then you're not going to understand people that don't want high conflict. You're going to assume that they're low in honesty. And the result of it is that you're going to think that they're not very intense or serious about the relationship at hand. Right now, I'm married to a Spaniard. Spain is in unbelievably high conflict, but very honest. I come from, you know, Seattle and most people from Seattle are, have this kind of Minnesota-type culture, as a matter of fact. Many, many, many people actually came from Minnesota and colonized Seattle in its early days, as a matter of fact. And there's an old joke about the emotional intensity of Minnesotans. And I'll tell you right now, those of you from Minnesota, don't turn this off and take this in the spirit in which I mean it, which is a spirit of love. There once was a man, a Minnesota, a Minnesotan,

• 43:19Arthur Brooks?

  who loved his wife so much that he almost told her. Okay, you get the idea. That's the difference between particular cultures. I'm going to make an assumption, Kirabo Vanessa, about your friend who's not forthright about everything, not lying, but just a little bit conflict averse, that your friend, well, that she's, she's not of the same temperature as you. You're probably, you're probably somebody who's as dishonest, that shy away from conflict. You need to tell me everything all the time. And maybe that's incredibly uncomfortable for her. Maybe she's conflict averse for some particular reason. That's something that's actually worth respecting, something that's worth honoring, as a matter of fact.

• 44:02Arthur Brooks?

  That's something that's probably worth mentioning and maybe trying to appreciate a little bit. Don't assume that just because she's not forthright about everything that's on her mind that's bothering her, that she's not valuing your relationship. It might be actually just the opposite. Well, time to finish. Please let me know your thoughts about this episode. If you think I got something wrong, put it in the comments. We read all the comments. Write to me at [email protected]. Like and subscribe. Hit the subscribe button, my friends, on Spotify, YouTube and Apple. Leave comments at will, anything you want. I'll read them. I promise I won't be morbidly depressed and have to go outside and get sunshine when you say something is critical. We want that too. Follow me on Instagram and LinkedIn and all the other social platforms.

• 44:47Arthur Brooks?

  There's all kinds of content on those platforms that are not just in this show. Please do order The Meaning of Your Life, which is my newest book, to learn more. A lot of the times when I'm talking about meaning, because that's what's on my mind. And Meaning of Your Life came out March 31st. Thanks to all of you, it was the number one New York Times bestseller and it's still selling a lot. I wanted to reach as many people as possible, maybe get it as a gift for a friend. And I'm looking forward to seeing you next week. Please do tune in again. We'll have another episode on another topic. I hope you'll continue to find it useful. Please share it with others and I hope you have a wonderful sunny week.