#253 Chase Hughes - Real MKUltra Documents, Alien Deception and Simulation Theory

Chase Hughes is a leading expert in human behavior analysis, influence, and persuasion, with over 20 years of experience as a U. S. Navy veteran. He developed groundbreaking programs like the "Behavior Pilot Program" for HUMINT, "CuePrime" for interrogation behavior analysis, and the "Pre-Violence Indicators Index" for detecting pre-attack behaviors. Author of the bestselling "The Ellipsis Manual: Analysis and Engineering of Human Behavior," Hughes consults for law enforcement, the military, Fortune 500 executives, and more. As a member of "The Behavior Panel" on YouTube, he educates on body language and deception detection. Internationally board-certified in clinical hypnotherapy, he advocates for ethical use of behavioral science in leadership, security, and personal development, drawing from his military background to create life-saving systems like "The Hostile Hospital" and "Tactical Psychology." Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: Buy PSYOP Now - ⁠https://psyopshow.com⁠ Preorder Now - ⁠https://callofduty.com⁠ ⁠https://americanfinancing.net/srs⁠ NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.327% for well qualified borrowers. Call 866-781-8900, for details about credit costs and terms. ⁠https://tryarmra.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://aura.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://betterhelp.com/srs⁠ This episode is sponsored. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/srs and get on your way to being your best self. ⁠https://bunkr.life⁠ – USE CODE SRS Go to https://bunkr.life/SRS and use code “SRS” to get 25% off your family plan. ⁠https://shawnlikesgold.com⁠ ⁠https://hillsdale.edu/srs⁠ ⁠https://ketone.com/srs⁠ Visit https://ketone.com/srs for 30% OFF your subscription order. ⁠https://mypatriotsupply.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://patriotmobile.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://prizepicks.onelink.me/lmeo/srs⁠ ⁠https://ROKA.com⁠ – USE CODE SRS ⁠https://tractorsupply.com/hometownheroes⁠ ⁠https://ziprecruiter.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://gemini.com/srs⁠ Sign up for the Gemini Credit Card: https://Gemini.com/SRS #GeminiCreditCard #CryptoRewards #Advertisement This episode is sponsored by Gemini. All opinions expressed by the content creator are their own and not influenced or endorsed by Gemini. The Bitcoin Credit Card™ is a trademark of Gemini used in connection with the Gemini Credit Card®, which is issued by WebBank. For more information regarding fees, interest, and other cost information, see Rates and Fees: gemini.com/legal/cardholder-agreement Some exclusions apply to instant rewards; these are deposited when the transaction posts. 4% back is available on up to $300 in spend per month for a year (then 1% on all other Gas, EV charging, and transit purchases that month). Spend cycle will refresh on the 1st of each calendar month. See Rewards Program Terms for details: gemini.com/legal/credit-card-rewards-agreement Checking if you’re eligible will not impact your credit score. If you’re eligible and choose to proceed, a hard credit inquiry will be conducted that can impact your credit score. Eligibility does not guarantee approval. The appreciation of cardholder rewards reflects a subset of Gemini Cardholders from 10/08/2021 to 04/06/2025 who held Bitcoin rewards for at least one year. Individual results will vary based on spending, selected crypto, and market performance. Cryptocurrency is highly volatile and may result in gains or losses. This information is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute investment advice. Past performance is not indicative of future results. Consult with your tax or financial professional before investing. Chase Hughes Links: Website - https://chasehughes.com YT - https://www.youtube.com/@chasehughesofficial IG - https://www.instagram.com/chasehughesofficial FB - https://www.facebook.com/chasehughesofficial The Behavior Panel - https://www.youtube.com/c/TheBehaviorPanel Amazon Author Page - https://www.amazon.com/stores/Chase-Hughes/author/B06VW1H89K Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 1:05Shawn Ryan?

  Chase Hughes, welcome to the show, man.

• 1:08Speaker 03

  Thanks, Sean. Good to be here.

• 1:10Shawn Ryan?

  It's good to have you. Love the stuff you put out.

• 1:12Speaker 03

  Thanks, man.

• 1:13Shawn Ryan?

  So, yeah, so I've been, I'm pumped about this and, man, you made it on short notice. Thank you. Perfect timing.

• 1:21Speaker 03

  Thanks, man.

• 1:22Shawn Ryan?

  But, yeah, I got a, I have a, like a, kind of like a docu-audio series coming out on PsyOps. You were one of the interviews in there. And so, really caught my interest just narrating that, that series that I did with Ironclad.

• 1:39Speaker 03

  I heard a clip of this.

• 1:40Shawn Ryan?

  You already heard a clip?

• 1:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, your guy sent, maybe, I don't, I don't get him in trouble.

• 1:44Shawn Ryan?

  No, it's all good.

• 1:45Speaker 03

  Your production guy sent me a clip that had me in there. And it sounds fantastic.

• 1:52Shawn Ryan?

  It's awesome, right?

• 1:54Speaker 03

  Production level like Hollywood level audio adventure through psyops man it's very good.

• 2:00Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you, thank you. Well, thank you for being a part of it. It was all it was awesome to do it.

• 2:04Speaker 03

  My pleasure.

• 2:05Shawn Ryan?

  I've never done anything like that before.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  It's good.

• 2:07Shawn Ryan?

  So, thank you, thank you. But um, yeah, so if anybody's interested, links in the description, you can uh, sign up for it there. But everybody starts off with an introduction here. Chase Hughes. A retired US Navy chief with 20 years of experience in military and intelligence operations specializing in human behavior analysis. Leading expert in behavior profiling, persuasion and influence. Having created some of the most advanced training programs in the field. Bestselling author of books like The Ellipsis Manual, which dives deep into the engineering of human behavior and mind control techniques. A master trainer in hypnosis and body language, teaching elite skills in reading behavior.

• 2:52Shawn Ryan?

  Co-founder of the Behavior Panel on YouTube where you break down real world body language and deception detection with over a million subscribers. Today, we're here to talk about psyops. I just talked about the target intelligence psyop with Ironclad that I did and um, like I said, that'll be in the description, but man.

• 3:14Shawn Ryan?

  There's a, there's a lot of, I mean, nobody trusts anything anymore these days. It seems like there's no trust in the institutions. There's no trust in mainstream media. Maybe a little bit of trust within the older generations. And I mean, these algorithms put you into, you know, basically a cage of, of whatever they, whatever it thinks you want to see more of. And uh, I mean, it's literally like a fucking cage, man.

• 3:43Speaker 03

  It is. It's a perfect word for it.

• 3:45Shawn Ryan?

  It's like every, every other post you look at has to do with, you know, whatever. I wonder how personalized these algorithms are. I mean, it's, I was thinking about asking my, some of the people on my team here if I could just take a look at their social media, but I was like, fuck, it's so, it's so catered to the user. It might be too much of a privacy concern to even broach the subject. Hey, let me see your Instagram. I just want to see what's in your.

• 4:14Speaker 03

  All these twerking videos.

• 4:15Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 4:18Shawn Ryan?

  But uh, but I so, I mean, what, what is the definition of a psyop to you?

• 4:26Speaker 03

  I think a psyop, when I use the term, is talking about a narrative-driven control of perception with the aim of shaping behavior.

• 4:42Speaker 03

  So it's narrative-driven. There has to be some kind of narrative or desired outcome. I'm just gonna feed you something enough to where I have a desired outcome that I want you to do behaviorally. I want you to believe something, adopt some new belief, maybe take on some new identity of I am this type of person now and I do this thing now, instead of ideas. So it's more about uh, identity than ideas and who you are.

• 5:09Shawn Ryan?

  Makes sense, makes sense.

• 5:11Speaker 03

  And I think we're in it, you said it, we're, we're at this all-time low in people's ability to feel trusting in the government and can I, can I trust what the government's telling us? We've been through this, uh, this whole COVID thing, uh, was just an unbelievably obvious. And that's the thing that, that it's starting to become more and more obvious over time, which I don't know why they're doing that. But if I, if I had to make a huge guess, this is because the people that are people or organizations, whoever's behind a lot of this

• 5:50Speaker 03

  stuff, I think they're getting old and I think there's some narcissism there that's causing them to want this process to happen faster so it happens during their lifetime.

• 6:01Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean, what happens?

• 6:04Speaker 03

  Whatever desired end state that these people, which I can't predict and I, I, my theories would just be wild conjecture. But it's very obvious that we're, we're being engineered to have this tribalistic us versus them mentality and all of these other things that are just built, just baked into everything. We can go as deep as you want to go on that.

• 6:29Shawn Ryan?

  I would love to go as deep, as deep as you can. I've wanted to talk about this for a long time, so.

• 6:37Speaker 03

  So let me start out just by introducing you to an ancestor of ours. They live in these tribal, almost nomadic tribes. And the average tribe 100,000 years ago, we believe was 120 people or so, 150, 120 people. So a pretty small social network, right? So you know everybody's names, you're familiar with everybody's behavioral habits and things like that. And there's a few things that kind of govern your life. And keep in mind that our brains haven't changed. The human brain itself has not evolved one more wrinkle since then. So it's identical brain to 100,000 years ago.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  Has it devolved? There's no proof of that either. Okay. And that would, they would be measuring interior skull volume and things like that.

• 7:34Speaker 03

  So over the course of time, your ancestors, if they piss someone off in the tribe, and they get judged by a lot of people on the tribe, they do something silly and they get some kind of judgment. They get excommunicated, they get exiled and kicked out of the tribe. This meant death, like A, they're not going to have food and support anymore, water. All this other stuff that's very important to life, but B, they can't have sex anymore. They're not attractive to a mate anymore. And now their genes die. So now it's not just death, for me, it's a full death of my genetic bloodline. It's massive. And we hear people all the time say, well, this public speaking is the number one fear of people.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  But speaking is never what people are afraid of. It's the judgment, the potential for judgment. Somebody's going to judge me, I'm going to get laughed, I'm going to get kicked off the stage or something like that. That is hardwired into our nervous system and it's inside of the lower part of our brain. And if I can target the non-human part of the brain, this mammalian mammal brain inside of our brain, that governs your whole life. It's the thing that keeps your heart beating, it's the thing that if you say, I'm going to hold my breath until I die, the reason that you can't is that part of your brain's in charge. It's either going to make you breathe or knock your ass out, you know, so. This social fear, being afraid of what other people are gonna think of me,

• 9:03Speaker 03

  became weaponized, hardcore weaponized, just in the last fifteen, twenty years. With social media coming out, our brains are wired to handle a hundred and twenty people. And then social media becomes this placebo of connection.

• 9:21Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean our brains are wired to handle a twenty, a hundred and twenty peoples? I mean, we can, we can, I think the Wall Street Journal just put something out very similar to this a couple of days ago, saying that the human mind can only, can only basically,

• 9:38Shawn Ryan?

  effectively handle a hundred and fifty different relationships with people. Is that what you're, is that where we're going?

• 9:46Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 9:47Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 9:48Speaker 03

  So it's, it's forge, foster, and maintain. Can I forge a relationship, foster a new relationship with someone, and then maintain it? So we're limited to about a hundred and fifty.

• 9:58Speaker 03

  And social media comes on the scene, somehow, that's triggering our need a little bit. It's, it's fulfilling some need, it's, it's like a placebo of social connection. And what happens, like, we have this city where there's a million people in a city, and your brain can't handle more than one fifty, what do we do? We go into apathy, we go into absolute apathy. And this is where you get things like psychologists studying something called the bystander effect. Somebody's in public, they get stabbed, or robbed, or something, if there's lots of people around, people don't say anything, and they don't do anything, because it's, it's a diffusion of responsibility, and we care less and less and less every day.

• 10:43Speaker 03

  People are talking about, like, all the stuff going on in Ukraine, or whatever, but like, there's murders four blocks from your house, and, and people being murdered. So we have an apathy for people that are around us, once the tribe gets above a certain number. And what social media is doing, and, and I'm not here to, to stand on a box and demonize social media, that's not, and I don't think anyone that created social media is not setting out to do this. But what social media is doing with this placebo effect, is it's tricking our brains into feeling a little sense of connection, but we're confusing attention for connection.

• 11:24Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  And the second part of this is, anybody watching the show right now on their iPad or whatever, would agree that we are in a loneliness epidemic, the whole world. And we're more connected than ever, but we are in this loneliness epidemic because what we're getting is a placebo of social connection from social media, from all, all these apps and stuff like that. So, back to this tribe, there are four things that we briefly, or we went into in the audio series that you did with Ironclad. And this is, spells out the word fate, because it is our fate.

• 12:09Speaker 03

  And this is focus, authority, tribe, and emotion. If I can hack your focus, social media, if I can make you think that someone's an authority figure by, they have more views, they have more subscribers, they have more, whatever they got the blue check mark, whatever it is. Tribe, if I can hack your feeling of tribe, then I can get you to do whatever I want you to do, or I can get you to view norms as completely different, because you're in a new tribe, us versus them mentality. And the emotional part, if you're looking at your social media, I'm not going to say the name of any one of them, but I'm sure you've scrolled through social media before. Like you see four or five posts that are just engineered to piss you off. Oh yeah. Engineered.

• 12:54Speaker 03

  And then every once in a while, you'll see a little, one of those like videos where like, oh, we had this baby eagle land on our, our front porch. And it shows the eagle, and then it shows him bottle feeding it, and then it shows him a little bigger, and he's grown up, and he's friends with him now. And like, you get this little emotional kick, and immediately when you scroll after one of those, you'll see an ad. No shit? Yeah. Why? That's, it's, there's a hypnosis phrase for this, and in hypnosis, they call this fractionation. If I can get your emotion to go up, and then back down again, every time I take you back up just a little bit, just a tiny bit above water, the next time I pull you down, you'll go deeper.

• 13:38Speaker 03

  So like in hypnosis, I might put you under hypnosis and then just wake you up from the neck up, or maybe have you open your eyes just a little bit. So I'll pull you out of trance a little bit, and then send you back down, and pull you out, and then send you back down. So it's proven that we'll go deeper and deeper. And the same thing, same effect happens with social media. And you'll see that, you'll see those spikes. And I think anybody that's that has social media can start to become aware of this stuff. Like, it's pissing me off, pissing me off, pissing me off. And then that weird video that like, we're watching social media alone on the couch at night sometime, and like, then we randomly cry for some little rescued animal video or something. And then we get an ad right afterwards.

• 14:20Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. Interesting. And so this placebo effect, rewind it just a little bit, you're, you're saying that we are, we are, we are mistaking attention on social media for connection, for actual connection. And it's, it's, it's serving as some type of placebo effect.

• 14:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:46Shawn Ryan?

  To, to take the place of the connection.

• 14:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:51Speaker 03

  And I think that's the root of what's going on, why we have this loneliness collapse around our, our world right now.

• 15:00Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 15:01Speaker 03

  But if you go back to this FATE model, F A T E, focus, authority, tribe, and emotion. And you go watch an episode of like, Cesar Millan, the dog whisperer guy, uh, who trains dogs. He's got some celebrity's shithead dog that like bites people when, when they come in the house or whatever. What's the first thing that Cesar Millan does? Establishes the dog's focus. Second thing he does, establish authority by taking control over the dog's space, or by him owning a certain piece of space and not letting the dog come into this area. Third thing, tribe. Now we're gonna go on a walk. The owner's gonna come with us. And the dog's gonna walk with me. We're gonna walk together. They will not

• 15:42Speaker 03

  walk in front of me. We're gonna walk together. Enforce the sense of tribe. Soon as that's done, I'm gonna pet the dog, I'm gonna give the dog a treat, I'm gonna tell him he did a great job, maybe go watch a movie or something. Emotion. That's a mammalian brain and it's the same whether you're training or manipulating a human or a dolphin, a monkey or a dog. That's that ancient system that's wired into us. And the scary part, what I think is scary, is that there's no firewall. Like, we don't, we can't go download McAfee and, and put it in our head for making ourselves immune to this stuff. I'm as vulnerable as everybody else.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  Knowing about this stuff helps and being able to see that, like you're scrolling through social media, you're like, whoa, I just, I finally saw that thing. That helps because it's, kind of takes some power away from it. But truly understanding that we are hardwired, this little system, the limbic system, mammalian brain in our, in our head, makes decisions about things way before we think we make decisions. And this is proven on MRI studies, that the, the mammalian part of our brain has already made the decision before we even make the actual decision.

• 16:59Shawn Ryan?

  No kidding.

• 17:00Speaker 03

  So, our, our decision-making is also a placebo. It's already been done in the lower part of the brain. So, the lower part of the brain's job is to make choices and decisions. The upper part of the brain, that, it's called the neocortex, which is Latin for new cover. That thing's job is to kind of take credit for making the decisions. But that's also where our ego lives and what makes us, uh, different than other primates and why we get Einstein and Mozart.

• 17:29Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting, interesting.

• 17:34Shawn Ryan?

  Lot of dark stuff going on in the world right now and it's to the point where I don't even believe my own eyes anymore because I cannot verify what people are saying about all the political violence, the division. I partnered with this production company called Ironclad and we're doing an eight-part audio series on psy-ops, on why foreign countries, governments, maybe even our own government, would conduct a psy-op on its own people. And I just think that, that this series is going to be extremely important because it's going to open the eyes of people on why these things happen. You can head over to psyopshow.com, order it today. I think you're going to get a lot out of this.

• 18:19Shawn Ryan?

  Who's pulling the strings?

• 18:21Speaker 03

  Who's pulling them?

• 18:29Shawn Ryan?

  How much of what we see today, do you think is an engineered psyop?

• 18:36Speaker 03

  Give me an example.

• 18:39Speaker 03

  I think some, what I mean is-

• 18:40Shawn Ryan?

  Example would be, I mean, you know, this stuff really popped on my radar during COVID. So I guess we can start with COVID, you know?

• 18:48Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh.

• 18:49Shawn Ryan?

  COVID, the, I mean, political violence, you know, that's, that's like the big one, right? Charlie Kirk was just assassinated. Some people think it was the left, some people think it was the right, some people think it was Israel, some people think it was trans, you know, at least that's what it was at the beginning. Lot of questions going on about this fucking guy that supposedly shot him. Did he? I don't know. You know what I mean?

• 19:17Speaker 03

  Super weird.

• 19:18Shawn Ryan?

  So, I mean, is that, is that a, is that a psyop? Is Epstein shot a psyop? I mean, Ukraine, China.

• 19:27Speaker 03

  All psyop.

• 19:28Shawn Ryan?

  Everything, every, every, I, I, it's just, it's to the fucking point. I don't, I don't believe anything that I, it's, it's so bad now, I don't even know if I believe my own eyes.

• 19:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:40Speaker 03

  And that's good that you're, that you're starting to get that way. And I think so many people are waking up because they made it way too obvious during COVID. Which is a good thing. I'm glad they did it because it woke up so many people where they started doing this crazier and crazier and crazier shit and people are like, whoa, that, the government's doing this? So I think that helped people wake up. But what I, what I meant was, with an example, there are some things that people call a psyop, like this algorithm, like, oh, the algorithm's engineering your behavior. The algorithm's job is to make you buy stuff and, and make you see ads. And that's where money comes from and revenue.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  So the algorithm says after this and this type of thing, they tend, people tend to click this buy now button for this flannel shirt, right? So since we do that, I'm going to start doing that more and the algorithm continuously learns. And I think there's a tendency for a lot of people to think that- A lot of this stuff is these dark forces sitting around a marble conference table at night, smoking cigars, like planning this stuff. I think a lot of the stuff that we see online is the result of these algorithms doing what makes revenue. I think it's an EBITDA revenue focused algorithm. But with the other stuff, if, when it comes to psyops,

• 21:07Speaker 03

  there's a few ways to tell if something is a psyop. And number one, the, the most important thing for anybody to learn is that if an opinion has to be silenced for something to, for another idea to flourish, then you're in a psyop. Guaranteed. We've seen a lot of that lately. A ton. A lot of that. The dude, there were Harvard educated doctors banned from social media for openly speaking about stuff that's now we've, we've shown to be true. Harvard educated doctors, the dude who invented mRNA went on Rogan because he got kicked off of Twitter, I think.

• 21:48Speaker 03

  I don't remember what it was. So there were, the moment you see someone being silenced, and it's an opinion from somebody who should have some kind of social authority, that's a big deal. And that should be terrifying to you, to anybody that, that is witnessing that. Seen a lot of that in the past couple of years too. There's been a ton. A lot. Yeah. And the, the interesting thing is what that does with our social media kind of hacking that tribal part of our brain. If all of us were sitting here in a room, and we see someone get pulled up in front of the whole crowd and then smacked out, smacked

• 22:32Speaker 03

  in the face, embarrassed, and then tossed out of the room. And we were, I was about to go up on stage and do that. I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be quiet now. I don't want that to happen to me. Yeah. So now we're using that, that tribalism as I'm gonna take this person and I'm gonna make an example out of them to prevent everybody else from stepping up. I'm gonna increase fear associated with social, being socially outcast. Man, that, this happened to me.

• 23:00Shawn Ryan?

  We've always dealt with some little, not always, ever since, you know, the new administrations and I've, we haven't really had any issues, but I mean, I remember we had Jim Caviezel on, it was during that, you know, Sound of Freedom movie came out. Lot of people hated that movie, right?

• 23:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:20Shawn Ryan?

  Dude, they just, the episode just disappeared.

• 23:25Speaker 03

  Your episode with Jim?

• 23:26Shawn Ryan?

  It just got pulled down, like woke up one day, fucking gone.

• 23:30Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 23:31Shawn Ryan?

  I think it's because he talked about, which apparently is like a forbidden topic, right? But yeah, just woke up, it was gone. We re-uploaded, but this shit happens to everybody.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  And it-

• 23:43Shawn Ryan?

  Not everybody. It happens to a lot of people.

• 23:46Speaker 03

  To, to tell you how pervasive this is, the moment you mentioned that word in association with the video being like deleted from YouTube, I was like, oh shit, Sean's gonna get our show kicked off the internet.

• 23:59Shawn Ryan?

  No, I'm gonna bleep that word.

• 24:00Speaker 03

  Okay, good.

• 24:03Speaker 03

  But that was my, my first reaction was like, oh no, we're, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be outcast or some little piece is gonna be outcast because of this. So I had that fear while you and I are talking about some people exploiting that fear. And I'm the guy, I'm, I'm the guy who teaches-

• 24:21Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 24:21Speaker 03

  Psyops and the army psyops, uh, who do this for good reasons, hopefully, how to do a lot of this stuff and I'm not immune to any of it.

• 24:33Shawn Ryan?

  So, can you kind of, you know, can you, could you walk us through the planning and execution of a, of a psyop from, from start to end?

• 24:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. So phase one is target data collection. So what I want to do is figure out the basic behaviors and beliefs of this person. So I want to see what they, what their perception is and what context they find themselves in. So-

• 25:07Speaker 03

  Let me, let me give you an example. Do you shower in the morning or at night? Both. You're a two time a day guy? Sometimes. Alright. Well, in the morning. Okay. I say in the morning. Alright. So if it's, if it's a morning shower, then I'll say sometime within the next 24 hours, you're gonna take all of your clothes off, right? But you won't do it on a podcast. And that's because of context. So if I can figure out a way to make you, to shift the context in your mind, I can get you to do anything. Like, you're not gonna take a gun right now and shoot me, right? But if the context was different and I was like running at you with a knife or something, then you would.

• 25:48Speaker 03

  So if I shift context, I can get desired behavior out of any human being. As a, just a weird example of this. There was a, a lawyer in Washington State who was arrested because he, he learned hypnosis and then started using hypnosis on these people in his office. And there's a woman who'd been seeing this office, uh, this lawyer. And he was hypnotizing her and she noticed one day that her bra was misplaced, like kinda pushed to the side a little bit. Uh, and that he had like helped her redress or like put her clothes back on. So she brought a recorder in there and figured out

• 26:29Speaker 03

  that this guy would put her under hypnosis and say, and now you're coming home, it's the end of the day. You're taking out your car keys and put them in that bowl. You walk to the bathroom, you turn that hot shower on. And now the context has shifted. Uh, so perception and context are the biggest target acquisition. Uh, target data acquisition there. So how do they see the world and what is the context where my, the desired behavior that I want? What is the context where that behavior is automatic or natural? Does that make sense? Kinda.

• 27:10Speaker 03

  Okay. So, uh, first I want to get perception. So this is, how does this person see the world? And if I can modify your perception.

• 27:19Shawn Ryan?

  How do you figure out how that person sees the world?

• 27:22Speaker 03

  So beliefs first. Values, identity and tribalism.

• 27:27Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  So like what's important to them? What's important to the tribe versus the individual? Because those are always different things.

• 27:35Speaker 03

  And then in what context? So whatever the desired behavior that I want, what is the context that would make that desired behavior automatic?

• 27:43Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. Let's backtrack a little bit more.

• 27:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:46Shawn Ryan?

  So you're looking for, you're trying to figure out somebody's perception of the world. So what is, when you are, when you are researching that and putting pen to paper, what does that look like? How do you start that? And what are you documenting?

• 28:01Speaker 03

  I tend to want, I tend to look for, and this is me. Uh, there, there are six needs and I want to look for individuals in society and where are most of them on this needs map? And this is, those six needs are significance. I need to do something so I can feel the most significant person in the room. Acceptance. So this is more where it's kind of a tribe of people. I pride myself on being part of a team. So significance, acceptance, approval. And approval, having a social, and these are all social needs. A social need for approval is that friend that we all have that's like, oh, I got that job interview tomorrow and I know I'm going to suck at it. I suck at everything. And just to get you to go be like, no, no, it's okay. You're going to do fine. You did great last time.

• 28:46Speaker 03

  You're tremendously confident. You're overqualified. So that's kind of the approval type of person. And the final three are intelligence, pity and strength. So intelligence means I need to do something where other people are going to see me as intelligent. And then pity is like, they're asking the question like, do other people realize how bad I've had it? Or how much I've been through? And the strength and power person at the end is. Can I behave in such a way where no one will ever challenge me? So I'm gonna, I'm gonna show every, a lot of posturing, kind of like the false alpha male syndrome. Okay. A lot of that.

• 29:26Speaker 03

  So if I, and the cool thing is, even in a conversation one-on-one, you can spot someone's needs usually within a minute and a half. And if I know the person is, let's call it an acceptance need person, I automatically know that their social fear is being outcast, being judged, or feeling some kind of social guilt. No shit. So it's one or the other of the, of the stuff that you meant, or could there be more? You could have, uh, one of those with a secondary. Okay. So you typically have a primary and secondary. Okay. But if I know that you're, if your need is being significant, I automatically understand that your deepest insecurities are about feeling small and significant, like you don't matter

• 30:11Speaker 03

  to anybody and you have no impact. Okay. So I know instantly, just by understanding your, your, on you on this needs map, I know where your fears and your insecurities are, better than probably your therapist that's been working with you for a year and it's been a minute and a half in a conversation. So a cult recruiter could use this as easily as a psy-op doing it on an entire, uh, group of people. Are there any of these traits that, that the majority of folks have, needs? Yeah. So when I, when I teach people this, and the system that I teach is called the NCI, it's neurocognitive intelligence. When I teach people this, I always default to significance and, uh, acceptance.

• 30:56Speaker 03

  You are important, people like you. Those two things are the, are the most easy to sway a person's behavior with. Okay. Because the two biggest fears are, I don't matter, people don't like me. Gotcha. Right? So, once you figure out the needs, then you have those insecurities and then you wanna figure out a plan to weaponize or leverage those insecurities.

• 31:23Speaker 03

  And we'll typically do this in small ways, so we kind of view it as a wedge. And the small things that we do matter a lot on the end. If I could go into like nerd mode, I'm gonna talk about a piece of research here. And Bob Cialdini, he wrote the book called Influence, and he wrote another book called Pre-Suasion. Fantastic books. He's a research expert for influence, human influence. They went around these, let me explain this to you. Let's say we have two neighborhoods here, one neighborhood here, one here. They're all the same demographics, they make the same amount of money, it's middle class. And they go to one neighborhood, door to door, and they ask them, will you put this giant,

• 32:08Speaker 03

  ugly ass, please drive safe sign out in your front yard? And in this one neighborhood, 1% of people, give or take, says yes. Then they go to this other neighborhood, and they say, will you put this giant ass sign out in your yard that says, please drive safe? In the other neighborhood, 89% of people said yes. The only difference is, in this other neighborhood, before they asked them to do the sign, they went around a week in advance and asked everybody one simple question. Do you support safe driving? And who's gonna say, no, I'm, no, I don't do that? Of course, everybody says yes.

• 32:49Speaker 03

  And the moment they say yes, they say, I'm so glad, thank you, this, the survey's finished, and would you mind placing this tiny sticker on a window that's facing the street? That says, drive safe. It's like that big, like one of those little alarm company stickers, right? So, my stomach's making noise, I hope it's not coming through on the mic. All good, man. We can keep it in if you want. So in this, what they did was, do you support safe driving? So now I've got you to make a social commitment, because there's two of us standing here at your doorstep. So you've just told someone who you are as a human being. Next, now that you've said that, I asked you to do this, and it's not that big of a deal.

• 33:32Speaker 03

  But a week later, I come to your house and ask you to put this ugly sign in your yard. And you say yes, because of this chain of commitments that I've got you to go through. And it's not just commitment. It's me getting you to agree who you are as a person. So you kind of roll along with that identity. So at the beginning of our conversation, if I was an intelligence operator and I wanted to manipulate you, I might talk about my social anxiety when I was a kid. When I was like 19, I had crazy social anxiety. I didn't, I felt like a fake everywhere I went. And but if I started a conversation talking about that, and then I was like, Shaun, how did you get to the point of being this like open with other people?

• 34:17Speaker 03

  And the moment you answer my question, I've got you to agree to the next behavior that I need to get you to do. Does this make sense? How so? I'm starting to pull you out of the box. So I just got you to agree that you are A, not closed off. You're B, you're going to talk about your, your past. So I've woven it into your identity in just this conversation. I mean, if, if you talk someone into being open, they're not going to live the rest of their life open. But you've got them to commit in this little conversation. So the moment I want to go a little outside the box, or I want to start talking about intelligence or something like that, you're more likely to do it because I've got you to make that first

• 34:57Speaker 03

  identity agreement about who you are as a human being, just by asking you that. Or I might complain about people who are really closed off. I might say, you know, there's so many people out there. They just live their lives in this little prison worried about what other people think. And people will nod their head just like that. And the moment you nod your head, you're like, yep. But what are you, what are you silently agreeing to? That's not me. I'm not that, I'm not that person. So we get these little identity agreements. And then you understand those needs and you can leverage so much with human behavior. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, a tiny piece of this.

• 35:41Speaker 03

  But for a psyop plan, to finish this incredibly long answer to your question, is I want to do data acquisition, figure out needs which automatically give me insecurities and fears.

• 35:56Speaker 03

  In the moment that happens, figure out context, my desired context that makes the behavior I want out of you automatic or completely expected.

• 36:07Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. And they did, but this also happens on entire populations.

• 36:12Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:13Shawn Ryan?

  And so, you know, when you're looking for a need, I mean, the entire population does not have the same. It sounds like the majority of people, you know, accept it and significance. But so how would you, what would differ when you are, when you're doing a campaign against a foreign government?

• 36:32Speaker 03

  If you're doing it against the government, you're still targeting the people, right? So targeting the people would mean that you're getting them to make small agreements. So I'm not going to drop leaflets or do radio broadcasts or any of that kind of psy op stuff right away that say, hey, you need to convert to this side and adopt these new beliefs. The first one is like, and let me, let me give you an intelligence example of this. There was a guy working in Guantanamo who almost got turned by one of the prisoners down there.

• 37:08Speaker 03

  And it all started with one of the prisoners asking him one question. That was the beginning. It's this one question. Now he said, do you think America is perfect? And that was the start. And it was a long chain after that. Has America ever made mistakes? Has America ever hurt people that didn't deserve it? Is that true? I was just reading in the library that America gave smallpox to the Native Americans. So it's just this long trail. So you always think about like these little steps. What are the steps to make this one thing feel natural? And when I was learning this, one of the guys who taught me said that, uh, walked me through the scenario. And he said, imagine going on a date.

• 37:51Speaker 03

  And you never shook this girl's hand. You never helped her through a door. You never put your hand on her shoulder. Nothing. You haven't made any physical contact with her. And at the end of the night, you lean in and try to kiss her. And it feels weird. It feels off. It doesn't feel right. It's because nothing happened before that. So what we're really doing and what we're really seeing in today's world is these small incremental steps to change human identity to some ultimate outcome. And the steps that we can see, if we kind of backwards analyze this, we're seeing division and tribalism on unprecedented levels.

• 38:34Speaker 03

  So if I'm a, if I'm a left wing, or if I lean way left, even moderately to the left, and I go on social media and start scrolling my feed, I'm gonna see people on the right still on my feed, but the type of people that I see that are on the right are gonna be the dumbest, loud-mouthed morons that you could ever imagine, just to piss me off. If I'm a conservative, I'm gonna go on there and see the dumbest idiots that you could ever imagine, just to make it me feel morally superior and make me feel intellectually superior for having chosen this path.

• 39:12Shawn Ryan?

  And drive a more intense hate to the other side.

• 39:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. And we talked about, before we started filming you, and I talked about psychedelics and how it dissolves this feeling of separation. And it seems to be the opposite is what's happening now. It's just massive amounts of separation. How many times and from how many objects and groups can I get you to separate yourself from? It's the opposite of, I mean, this, it is so divisive that I think we are seeing levels like, I think 20 years ago, 10 years ago, if you asked someone if somebody should be

• 39:57Speaker 03

  killed for their opinion or for having offensive opinions, I think 99.9% of people would say, no, that's ridiculous. But now it's acceptable. And it's only acceptable because the idea became identity.

• 40:16Speaker 03

  So it's idea, then ideology, and then identity. And this is the pathway you walk anyone down in a psyop. Idea, ideology, identity. And we adopt an ideology like, oh, I agree with these beliefs. We need to pay people who can't afford it. We need to do this program. We need to instill this one thing in the school, whatever it is. So now I'm starting to adopt an ideology. And the moment that happens, now I have a little tribe of people that agree with me all over social media. And now it's identity because someone posts something that's very political, but I believe in it so much that I post it. And now the first day, the first week that I start posting that content, now my identity changes. And just like in a conversation when I said, Sean, how'd you get this open? Or look at these other people that are really closed off.

• 41:01Speaker 03

  It's the exact same thing that's happening on social media. It's identity. And so it's rewiring how I see myself, which means that I can take drastic measures to enforce it because it's part of who I am. It's not what I believe, it's who I am as a person. And you imagine like you've been an operator for a while. You viewing yourself as an operator is who you are as a person. And that's why you could do this and that's why you did that. It wasn't because like I have a lot of really good ideas in my head. I have, my training was great. It's you. Your confidence was in yourself and not the ideas.

• 41:41Speaker 03

  So the moment I get someone to place all of those ideas into identity, we take morality off the table.

• 41:49Shawn Ryan?

  Shit.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  And it's getting worse.

• 41:54Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, no kidding. What are, I mean, what are the biggest divisions that you see happening right now?

• 42:02Speaker 03

  Well, obviously the left versus right is the biggest.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  And the one thing that I would want everyone in the world to hear, when it comes to all the shit we see on Twitter, or Facebook, or Instagram, whatever it is, you have more in common with someone who voted for the other guy than the billionaire who is funding a lot of these ideas and ideologies that you're seeing on social media. You have way more in common. Like, and you see these idiots on TV, whether they're left or right, based on who you are in real life, and the algorithm is showing you the opposite, right, the idiots on the other side.

• 42:49Speaker 03

  That's not real. That's a tiny percentage of the population, a tiny one, I think. If you go to like Walmart, or Target, and you're standing in line, and you see somebody that voted for the other person, they're not an asshole. They're not slapping you in the face. And we have so much in common with each other, like, we all want fair income, we all wanna, we all hate taxes, we all want our kids to be safe, we all want our kids to be well-fed, we wanna be able to have fun and not pay too much taxes. Like, we have so much in common with those people. We have nothing in common with a lot of these elites who are kind of orchestrating a lot of the shit that we're seeing on social media.

• 43:31Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, duh. Hundred percent agree with that.

• 43:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:34Shawn Ryan?

  Hundred percent agree with that.

• 43:36Speaker 03

  I've studied hypnosis for 25 years.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  And I work with one-on-one clients, I work with Formula One athletes, I've worked with pro fighters, UFC champions, PGA golfers.

• 43:52Speaker 03

  The one thing that I've noticed when I'm working with all of these people is that the moment that we start understanding that everything, every time I'm looking at another person there, they are scared like I am, they're lonely like I am, and all of these things that we, that all of us hide from the rest of the world. I'm lonely, I'm scared, things aren't gonna go right for me, I don't know if things are gonna work out, I have to hedge everything, are my kids gonna be okay? All the stuff we worry about, we have that in common with everybody.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  I don't know, this is like, I don't want this to turn into a Mr. Rogers episode, but we really gotta come back and realize that we have to understand that we've got more in common with those people than the elites.

• 44:40Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I think it's definitely not gonna be a Mr. Rogers episode. But, um, I mean, so, you know, everybody hears the term, you know, divide and conquer, divide and conquer, divide and conquer. We've heard it several times, you know, all by design, heard that several times.

• 45:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:03Shawn Ryan?

  But, you know, I mean, who, who, I guess what I'm asking is, we are divided on so many things. Yes, it's, it's, it's red versus blue, it's black versus white, it's Christian versus non-Christian, it's, I mean, it's, it's LGBTQ or not, it's, it's just, it's, fuck, man, it's everywhere, everywhere you look, you can't find anything that's not division anymore, race, religion, politics.

• 45:37Speaker 03

  I have a theory about this, if you'll indulge me.

• 45:41Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:42Speaker 03

  Here. If, if, are you familiar with Maslow's pyramid, Maslow's hierarchy of needs?

• 45:48Shawn Ryan?

  No.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  So it's a, it's a hierarchy of what we need to kind of survive, basically, as humans. And there's a few levels to it. The bottom is just survival, above that is safety, and above that is love and belonging, and then it's self-esteem, and then actualization, like, I'm living my purpose in life. If we have a few of these pyramid levels met, we will always worry about the next one up. You with me so far?

• 46:19Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 46:20Speaker 03

  Okay. So we've got kind of the survival and safety met, like, you're not gonna see debates about gender in a country where people are starving. It will never happen.

• 46:35Speaker 03

  You're only gonna see the next level that people are worried about on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So if we have our survival met, our safety is met, the next thing up is social and belonging. And that's where we get that placebo. That's where we get that little placebo. And the way, since we're not fulfilling that, that gets to be something that occupies us. So we focus on what makes us different. I have to isolate myself and I have to find a tribe of people who believe in this one small thing that I believe in. And I'm gonna try to divide myself as much as possible. When you have societies that are high up, that have the, all the belonging stuff handled, the next thing is esteem.

• 47:20Speaker 03

  So if belonging feels like it's met, our self-esteem and our definition of who I am as a person, that stuff has got to be conquered. That's the next thing. And all that we're seeing now is like, I have to identify with this one thing to increase my feeling of esteem, even though the social part of that pyramid isn't being met. We're kind of jumping over it and we can never get to the esteem part because social can no longer be fulfilled.

• 47:49Shawn Ryan?

  Gotcha. Okay, okay. What, why?

• 47:56Shawn Ryan?

  What is the point of the division? I mean, I get it. Creates broken society. Nobody can agree on shit. Nobody gets along.

• 48:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:04Shawn Ryan?

  People stand, essentially a nation stands for nothing because it's so fucking divided. Totally understand that. Who wants us divided? And why? You know, at the beginning, you were talking about nine people at a marble round table. Do you think that's what it is? Or is it Russia, China? Anybody, you know, all these foreign actors. Maybe, maybe, maybe, I mean, obviously, not just maybe, obviously, you know?

• 48:31Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah.

• 48:33Shawn Ryan?

  Not all foreign actors.

• 48:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:35Shawn Ryan?

  A lot of them coming from in conus.

• 48:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. I don't have many theories when it comes to this, but I think there are some elites that have put some...

• 48:48Speaker 03

  desired end goals out there to people that work for them or people that do their bidding. And I think this is just a byproduct of those end goals needing to be met. Some of that's military industrial complex and some of that is another country wanting our economy to start kind of getting crippled a little bit. But I think that it's multifaceted and I think that anybody who comes up and says, oh, it's this one guy. It's this one guy at the World Economic Forum or it's this one guy who does this thing. I don't think that's the case. I think a lot more of this is just a byproduct of companies needing money than people really understand.

• 49:33Speaker 03

  I think a lot of it is this just companies doing things and engineering outcomes where they can get money. It just so happens that this might be that that end. But you hear people talk about the Great Reset and all that, which I'm no expert in any of those like international politics stuff. But that's terrifying to me to hear people talk about that kind of stuff.

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• 53:30Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Chase, we're back from the break. We're getting ready to talk about, you know, what the all the division. You know, we hear divide and conquer. We've con, you know, gone through, you know, some of the division that we're seeing. Why, though? Why? What's the plan after all the division? Is it just a broken country?

• 53:50Speaker 03

  I think it is. I think that's the desired in-state.

• 53:53Shawn Ryan?

  That's what I think. I think it's just a, nobody's going to come in here and occupy this and try to take over.

• 53:58Speaker 03

  Well, Operation American Freedom.

• 54:00Shawn Ryan?

  There's, there's so many guns. I mean, it would be, it would make all the places that I've been to look like a complete joke.

• 54:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:07Shawn Ryan?

  You know, nobody, nobody could come in here and occupy, but you could disrupt it, turn us against each other, and then, and then we have no relevance in, in the world. No influence, no relevance, nothing.

• 54:18Speaker 03

  There was a KGB guy. Do you remember this video? It was in, from the 90s, I think. Yuri something.

• 54:25Shawn Ryan?

  Bezmenov.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. And he talked about that plan to destabilize and then replace the education system with a different education system, infiltrate college professors first and, and all of like the, the big thinkers of the society. And this was in the 90s, and he's kind of describing the process we're going through right now, today. That was terrifying for me to watch, man. Um, but yeah, I think that's the overall goal. And I think that the, the one thing that I've always, I would say the biggest transformation I've ever made in my life was psychedelics, was like going through psychedelic therapy. And the one thing is like, it's not, it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal.

• 55:10Speaker 03

  And that's like the, one of the biggest lessons that I've ever gotten from any time I've ever done psychedelics. And I think that's the approach that we've got to take with all of this, like, division and this rhetoric. And I think if you, if somebody tries out a social media fast and just for, like,

• 55:30Speaker 03

  Twenty days, try it out. And just don't go on social media. And it will change your life because we've got stuff like TikTok. Now, you know what the kids in China see on TikTok?

• 55:42Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah, they're they're solving math equations and physics and

• 55:47Speaker 03

  How to stretch.

• 55:48Shawn Ryan?

  It's all educational.

• 55:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:50Shawn Ryan?

  Here it's all tits, ass, booze, division, hate.

• 55:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:55Shawn Ryan?

  It's it's porn.

• 55:57Speaker 03

  Violence.

• 55:58Shawn Ryan?

  Violence.

• 56:00Speaker 03

  And if that if that doesn't tell you exactly what's happening in on in the world, then you need to look somewhere else or you need to figure this out. If you look at if China has control of TikTok or Chinese interests have control of TikTok and we're seeing all of that stuff and they're seeing stuff that's fantastic for them and and beneficial to them as a society, like you, that's a psyop. It's it's clear as day. It's not some theory. It's obvious and it's like right in our faces. And it's as much as it's in our face as much as it was during COVID. When we had people speaking from borrowed authority that we need to trust the science.

• 56:45Speaker 03

  Why aren't you trusting the science, Sean? Which put two masks on today. All of that kind of stuff that we endured, it was just so. That's why so many people woke up because it was accidentally way too obvious. And I'm glad that it was.

• 57:01Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think that there is? I mean, are we done with the waking up period? Do you know what I'm getting at? I mean, it's it's it's we've heard this for so long. Oh, you need to wake up. You need to wake up. You're asleep. You're asleep at the wheel. You need to wake up. You don't know what's going on. I mean, I feel like so much shit has happened in the past.

• 57:22Shawn Ryan?

  Four, five, eight years that I've, in my opinion, the waking up was done a long time ago. I mean, do you think people are still waking up, realizing they've been lied to that can't trust the government, you can't trust the institutions, you can't trust the mainstream media, you can't trust, you can't trust much of anything these days. I mean, I got, and part of, you know, I understand too, I mean,

• 57:51Shawn Ryan?

  entire generations have just had their, their world flipped completely upside down because they had put so much trust in institutions and our government and media.

• 58:02Speaker 03

  I think at a certain level, like people like my parents, probably your parents, place a large amount of trust in the government, a large amount of trust in the news because that was the only source for so long and it just became habitual and became based in identity. Like if you don't trust what they're saying, what the FDA is telling you, who are you going to trust? So like I hear that from like my dad and I think that's woven into identity. But I think that, I don't think the waking up period is done at all. I think it's, they're going to go twice as hard and I think within the next year, if

• 58:42Speaker 03

  we look at standard psyops, if the psyop isn't working, there's either A, double down or B, stop. And I think they're going to double down.

• 58:52Shawn Ryan?

  You think they're going to double down?

• 58:53Speaker 03

  Oh, yes. And I think it's going to happen in the next 12 months.

• 58:58Speaker 03

  So.

• 58:58Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think it's going to happen within the next 12 months?

• 59:01Speaker 03

  There's too many people waking up. When Elon bought Twitter and a lot of this stuff, there's tons of misinformation and all that stuff all over social media. But I think that enabled so much data to come out that people are going to start saying, just a little bit of a backpedal, just pump the brakes a little bit on my trust in institutions and things like that. And I think it's enough that more people are going to wake up. We're going to have a lot more people in the next year because I think it's going to get a lot more obvious.

• 59:35Shawn Ryan?

  What, what do you, I mean, what are some of the psyops you see going on today? Let's, let's, let's bring up the alien UFO, UAP shit. Is that a psyop? Do you think that's a psyop?

• 59:47Speaker 03

  I think.

• 59:49Shawn Ryan?

  Is that building a psyop? I mean, we've heard about Project Blue Beam. I think that's what that's the false flag alien invasion that's supposedly coming. I'm not fucking throwing it out there like some crazy conspiracy idea, because at this point, I'm like, shit, probably.

• 1:00:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, it would just make sense. Like when the New Jersey drones were happening, I think right before the election or whenever that was. That was insane. And I I put a video out on that and how we are in the middle of a psyop, but it's not the craft. I don't, I'm not sitting here saying like these little Tic Tacs and all that stuff are a bunch of psyops. The response to it, I think, is a psyop.

• 1:00:27Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean the response?

• 1:00:29Speaker 03

  How how we see people online responding to it. We see people going out on podcasts and stuff that have talking points from the government. And if you have someone that has talking points from the government, that's a spokesperson, not a whistleblower. It's very different. And so if if I'm sitting here and I say, well, I can't say this, but I can, I can tell you this one thing. That's government release of, that's a controlled government release of information. In my, in my estimation.

• 1:01:01Speaker 03

  And so, yeah, I think the the public perception management, which is the first step of psyops, if you remember, is per perception and then context, right? That we're managing, the way that our perception of the UFO, UAP thing is being managed is absolutely a psyop.

• 1:01:20Shawn Ryan?

  So they they are creating the perception.

• 1:01:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:01:23Shawn Ryan?

  Correct?

• 1:01:24Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:01:24Shawn Ryan?

  Creating the perception and then they're gonna, they're gonna give us the next thing.

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, you had a retired admiral, I think, here.

• 1:01:33Shawn Ryan?

  Tim Gallaudet.

• 1:01:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, a couple of weeks ago. He was talking about that email that got deleted.

• 1:01:39Shawn Ryan?

  Wait a minute. Different admiral.

• 1:01:42Speaker 03

  He was the oceanography guy.

• 1:01:43Shawn Ryan?

  Tim Gallaudet, you probably saw a clip.

• 1:01:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. He's talking about an email that got deleted about the Tic Tac UFO thing that somehow got leaked. And

• 1:01:55Speaker 03

  I've seen so many people come out and say like, I'm allowed to say this and I'm not allowed to say that. And that's not what a whistleblower does. And I get it that there was a huge example made out of Snowden. But I think that the way we're, if our perception is being managed, then, then we are in a psyop. Guaranteed, we're in psyop. So, all this started with a guy named Edward Bernays. Edward Bernays. Edward Bernays. He was the guy that invented the term PR. And he changed the term from propaganda to public relations. He just changed the word propaganda. He was the guy, he's the reason our butter

• 1:02:38Speaker 03

  or margarine got dyed yellow. He's the reason that we think bacon is part of an American breakfast, because the pork industry needed to sell more bacon. He's the reason the Department of War was changed to the Department of Defense. He's the reason that women started smoking Virginia Slims back in the seventies, when it was inappropriate for women to smoke. So he organized a parade called Torches of Freedom, where women would go and smoke in the street and just say F you to everybody. And just, he changed it, changed the perception as like, this is a symbol of freedom. And I'm gonna smoke. So he was the, the biggest propagandist in, probably in the last four or 500 years,

• 1:03:22Speaker 03

  like, in the world. So he, he manipulated a lot of economic stuff. He had a lot to do with the United Fruit Company, which is down in South America, which you may have heard of, in Panama. But this guy invented all of these processes to shape perception and change how people behave. And he was actually Sigmund Freud's nephew. And he wrote a lot about this, this propaganda stuff. And he, his bestselling book that he wrote about all of this is called Crystallizing Public Opinion. And in this book, he talks about getting, grabbing a hold of somebody's focus, establishing some

• 1:04:02Speaker 03

  kind of authority. And I'm, I'm using my own words here, but it's the same exact process. So if you think of that, that FATE model that we talked about, F A T E, focus, authority, tribe, and emotion, that's our hardware.

• 1:04:15Speaker 03

  There's another set of influencing factors for the human side of the brain, the software part. But that that controls our hardware. And with everybody, we have all the same hardware, identical, almost identical hardware. And that's all you need to take control of a human brain. It's like, can I establish the focus? Are they doing that with the UFOs? Do they harness our focus? Are there people of authority coming out? Is there a sense of tribe involved with that? There's UFO communities, there's the subreddits, but if you, if I like a couple of UFO things on the internet, I'm gonna get fed like crazy amounts of UFO stuff online. And then there's emotional stuff.

• 1:04:57Speaker 03

  And then we have like the emotional anticipation of some of these videos that says, John Smith is going live tonight at seven, he's gonna expose everything, new secrets you've never heard before. And of course, nothing happens. So it's, if I can harness the power of F A T E, then I can control a total society.

• 1:05:19Shawn Ryan?

  What is, what is, what's some of the most successful psyops you've seen conducted that are complete now? That you could maybe dive us in, you know, that we could dive into and you could explain, you know, from start to finish?

• 1:05:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:38Shawn Ryan?

  What the end product was?

• 1:05:40Speaker 03

  Our school system was one of the biggest. And how westernized systems of elementary, middle, and high school were organized. When the US was first getting started, this guy, I can't remember his name, but he was, he was in charge of this stuff, so he is gonna be the first head of the Department of Education and create this education system that's gonna be nationwide. He goes and learns, he goes, he flies to Europe and learns from all these people who developed something called the Prussian Education System, which in, in the Department of Education's

• 1:06:18Speaker 03

  founding documents, which were some written by this guy, was turn schools into factories that make good workers. I'm paraphrasing that, but the word factories was there. School is just a factory to manufacture people for the workforce. And the people that are obedient and all of this. So the Prussian education system was meant so that workers are manufactured and people didn't question the king. That was the big thing. So if I have to get a whole country to adopt a system that's probably not in your best interest, then I've got to do some work with PR. I've got to work with this Edward Bernays guy maybe, or I've got to do something to get people to to

• 1:07:03Speaker 03

  adopt that belief. So this system was made, like standing up in the morning was the first thing we do every day. I pledge allegiance to the flag every day. And then we sit down, we were told what to do, where to sit. We don't really do a lot of creative thinking. Can you memorize this? And can you spit it back out? Can I teach you this one thing? Can you spit it back out? Let me teach you the geometry so you can cut wood, or so that you can square off a corner when you become a kitchen remodeling guy, whatever that is. That, the adoption, the way that our country adopted that is one of the most successful psyops ever. And I mean, you've you eat pretty healthy, I would imagine. And do you eat based on the food pyramid?

• 1:07:48Speaker 03

  No. You get like nine loaves of bread a day, or whatever it tells you to eat. No. That's another great example of that, where like, it's still standing, it's it's still there. And we know that it's not the right way to do it. And we know that different people need different diets. But there's still a food pyramid there. And that was from Edward Bernays, again, who kind of invented that. So all of these programs that that we consider parts of our everyday life, and we consider like, oh, that's an American tradition. A lot of those were originated through some kind of psyop. So when it comes to like, am I in a psyop? We have to define that term a little more narrowly.

• 1:08:33Speaker 03

  Because if you're watching an infomercial, you're in a psyop. So everything's trying to influence your behavior to buy something or do this. But I would say like, when it comes to commercials and stuff, those are all psyop. And all advertising in Western society has two goals. Number one is make you feel like you're not enough yet. And number two is to make you compare yourself to other people. And if it does that well enough, then you'll go get it. And if a commercial can take control of fate, all of your factors on the fate model, then it'll get you to take action every single time.

• 1:09:13Speaker 03

  And just to give you an example, like, have you heard of the Milgram experiment? No. So this happens in Yale. I'll give you the short version. 1962, I think. This World War II is over, these Nazis are on trial in Nuremberg. And they're asked like, why did you do what you did? And they're saying, I was just following orders. So this guy at Yale, Dr. Stanley Milgram, runs this experiment. Will people just follow orders? So let's say you're a volunteer for this experiment. You respond to an ad in the paper, we're saying, that says, we'll give you a free baloney sandwich lunch voucher, or whatever, at the cafeteria, and 20 bucks.

• 1:09:57Speaker 03

  So you show up and it says, we're doing a study on learning and the effects of punishment on learning. I think I do know about this. Is this the shock there, the shock thing? Yeah. Go ahead, go ahead. So they've essentially got a guy in the room right beside you strapped up to a machine that's gonna shock him. And they sit you down at a machine and your job is to read off some words. And when he gets a question wrong, you shock his ass. And then you move the shocker up, shock him higher voltage for every wrong answer. You keep moving it up. And at the end of this little shocking machine, it says, 450 volts, XXX, danger, severe shock. Two thirds of the way through this shocking thing, the guy in the other room, you can hear him screaming, you can hear him yelling when you shock him because the thing's painful.

• 1:10:43Speaker 03

  He's an actor, he's not ever getting shocked. But two thirds of the way through, he stops. And he says, I don't want to do this anymore. I want out of here. I have a heart condition. I don't want to do this anymore. And you look back at the guy running the thing in the lab coat. The guy in the lab coat says, it's important that you keep going. The experiment has to continue. The experiment requires that you continue. And well, you keep going and around like the 400, 350 volt mark. The guy in the other room stops making all sound and stops responding to questions. He's not even answering the questions anymore. And you turn around to the guy in the lab coat. The guy in the lab coat says, any non-answer must be treated as an incorrect answer. Please continue.

• 1:11:26Speaker 03

  Keep going. And then these, these people would get to the end, this 450 volts. And they'd shock him. They're like, well, that's it. You know, we reached the, we reached the end. The guy in the lab coat says, please continue until you've read all of the, all of the questions on the, on the quiz. So this guy, I think, might be dead in the other room. They're just keeping going at this 450 volts. In the other room. So before the experiment started, these psychologists, psychiatrists got together, formed a hypothesis. And they said, who's going to go all the way? Then they said, 0.8%. Or 0.08% of people will go all the way. 67% of people went all the way. Holy shit.

• 1:12:10Speaker 03

  And they redid the experiment. They said, oh, well, there's an inherent belief of safety because it's in a college. They've done it in apartment buildings and basements and office buildings. With college educated people, high school educated people, all income levels. About 67% of people will go. Why do you think that is? It's, uh, two factors. It's number one, our inherent obedience to authority or perceived authority. Guys in a lab coat, I'm at this thing, the guy's in charge, the guy's tall, whatever it is. If, if we perceive authority, that will kind of overrule us. If you go back to our tribe days. If I disobeyed my tribal leader.

• 1:12:51Speaker 03

  That means no food, no sex, and no kids, no DNA survival. That's a big deal. Second, and one that they didn't talk about, this is my theory, is novelty. So when something breaks from what we expect to happen, so like you've done a shitload of podcasts in here, but like if this wall started opening up and there was a, this was a garage door and you didn't know it until just now, you would freak out. No matter how much I kept talking, you would keep looking at that, right? Because it's brand new and it's unexpected. So when things happen that are new and unexpected, all of our focus is generated, which is the first part of the fate model. Anything new generates focus.

• 1:13:36Speaker 03

  So for our tribal ancestors, this is when they're walking past a bush every day and one day there's a big stick that snaps behind that bush. All of their focus goes on to this unexpected new information. So in the Milgram experiment, this is a person responding to an ad they've never responded to, driving to a building they've never been in, in a situation they've never been in, meeting people they've never met, sitting in front of a shocking machine they've never seen before. Every single aspect of it was brand new, which maintained a ton of focus. So focus is, you can manufacture focus with novelty.

• 1:14:17Speaker 03

  Anything unexpected kind of breaks you out of your script and tells your brain to say, whoa, I'm not able to predict what's happening next, I need to pay attention. So like we have a little script for driving our car, and the moment something unusual happens, all of our focus kind of drifts back. This is when we can drive past our exit or stop sign or whatever. So I think that one thing that Milgram experiment does is it shows us how rapidly we can be compromised. And people, and this is in like 25 to 40 minutes, you'll kill a stranger. The average, the majority of people will kill a stranger in under 45 minutes.

• 1:15:00Speaker 03

  And 250 volts is enough to kill somebody, depending on amps and other stuff.

• 1:15:08Speaker 03

  That was 100% of people, 100%.

• 1:15:11Shawn Ryan?

  That was 100% of people.

• 1:15:13Speaker 03

  Went up to 250, yeah.

• 1:15:16Speaker 03

  Which is terrifying. But it shows us that we're all running the same hardware. And it's easy to hack. And the more we're aware of what's happening around us and like, this is probably leading me in a certain direction. Why am I feeling this way? The more aware we can be of that stuff. We can be a little bit more in control. We're never fully in control because there's, we don't have the antivirus stuff in our head.

• 1:15:44Shawn Ryan?

  What are the others? I mean, what, what, what, what would some of the other signs be that you are in the midst, you know, of a silo? I mean, first thing you said was people being silenced.

• 1:15:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:56Shawn Ryan?

  I think that's, that's, that's a big one. What, what are some of the other signs?

• 1:16:02Speaker 03

  Uh, brand new and unexpected things happening. Like the drones in New Jersey, right? So let's go back to the fate model focus. So is something new and weird happening that's capturing my focus? Are there celebrities tweeting about it and people that are high up in the government talking about, there's authority? Am I seeing large groups of people start talking about this one thing? Or am I being made to think that a lot of people think a certain way?

• 1:16:30Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:16:31Speaker 03

  There's tribe. And then am I getting called to action and getting installed with this new identity that makes me feel intellectually or morally superior? And there's the emotion. So is my, that little fate model, is that being targeted somehow?

• 1:16:47Speaker 03

  And most of my income comes from jury selection and, and consulting on, on trials and stuff like that.

• 1:16:58Speaker 03

  And the one thing that I that I teach attorneys is if you want to persuade an entire jury, the only thing that you've got to do is capture their focus, have more authority than the other attorney, foster a sense of tribalism and us versus them. And when you say the word us, you get the jury to think of you and them as one unit. And then get some kind of emotion in there during your closing arguments or during one of the depositions and you'll win the case. I have a 200% money back guarantee when I do trial consulting.

• 1:17:30Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, wow.

• 1:17:32Speaker 03

  And it's it's easy to do if you just know how to trigger all those responses in the human brain. It's not hard to hack.

• 1:17:42Shawn Ryan?

  How many people that are involved, I mean, how many people involved in a psyop do you think actually realize they're involved? So, you know, you had mentioned, you know,

• 1:17:52Shawn Ryan?

  UAP encounter, are there celebrities

• 1:17:56Shawn Ryan?

  talking about it, tweeting about it, posting about it, are there government officials talking about it, posts about it, tweeting about it, doing interviews about it? I mean,

• 1:18:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:04Shawn Ryan?

  If you throw a UAP up right now, everybody's going to tweet it. Everybody's going to tweet about it. Everybody's going to post about it. Everybody's going to talk about it.

• 1:18:12Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:18:12Shawn Ryan?

  I mean,

• 1:18:16Shawn Ryan?

  those people don't know they're a part of it, but it's going, I mean, whoever's whoever, you know, if it is a psyop, I mean, you know, everybody's gonna

• 1:18:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:27Shawn Ryan?

  gonna do it. I mean, just for example, by the time this comes out,

• 1:18:33Shawn Ryan?

  this Shield AI's episode will be out already. They're releasing this. They're basically releasing the future of air warfare. They brought a model here. It was

• 1:18:48Shawn Ryan?

  a really fucking big model. It was in the front yard, like a damn UAP. It's not supposed to be out until 21st of October. They unveil it. I tell them, I'm like, hey, you might want to put a tarp over this thing because uh, we're all the boonies and if anybody thinks this is a UAP, you know, I'll make you go viral, but that's really gonna make you go fucking viral in the way that you, in the way that you don't want to be. You know what I mean? And so that could create, that could have created, you know what I mean? A frenzy of, oh, there's a UAP out in middle Tennessee, da, da, da, da, da. You see what I'm saying? And, and nobody would have, or I could have done that on purpose and everybody that's posting about it, you know, they would-

• 1:19:32Speaker 03

  Especially if you posted it, because that would trigger the authority, right? And then, because the tribe's gonna be there, because it's a weird thing. It'll generate a little bit of focus in tribe, but then you get involved and you say, yeah, I was there and I saw it. So now there's, there's authority in there. The only thing missing is that emotion. Then we get into the tribalized part of everything. Like, I believe it. I, this guy doesn't. This, he's a plant. You know what I mean? So we see so many of those things that we get to a point of apathy at a certain time. So I think, I can't remember who wrote the book, but it was called

• 1:20:10Speaker 03

  The Death of Outrage, to where we, we get exposed to so much content designed to inflame our, our mental state that outrage starts dying and, and going away. And that's the point we're at right now, that we need an extreme amount of novelty in order to spike that wave. It's gotta be higher than normal, because there's so much novelty and bizarre shit that people are exposed to on a regular basis, that the spike has to go higher. So look for the, the high spikes is the, the biggest thing to really look for.

• 1:20:49Shawn Ryan?

  Mid-high spikes recently, Charlie Kirk assassination.

• 1:20:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:53Shawn Ryan?

  You know, I think there are a lot of potential psy-ops around that. Or maybe truth. I don't think we'll ever really find out.

• 1:21:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:02Shawn Ryan?

  But, I mean, what do you think about that? Did you see anything?

• 1:21:07Speaker 03

  Uh, uh, there's some psy-ops going around all kinds. That was probably a way to control information or send a message to somebody. Uh, I don't know much about the whole situation, but I've seen people online that are digging into it and it looks really messed up. Like, there are some crazy details that even I, I would maybe consider myself an operator and there's no way anybody I've ever met could take a rifle apart that fast.

• 1:21:36Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:21:37Speaker 03

  That takes time. There's a lot of threads on barrels like that and a lot of threads on suppressors and extended barrels that would take a whole lot of time. There's a whole lot of weird details. What about you?

• 1:21:50Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, there's a lot of weird details. I mean, I think, I don't think the entrance wound looks like an entrance wound at all. Do you?

• 1:21:57Speaker 03

  Uh, it looked-

• 1:21:58Shawn Ryan?

  Fucking exit wound.

• 1:21:59Speaker 03

  It looked like it bounced off of a plate right here. It looked like there was a ceramic plate right here.

• 1:22:05Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:22:06Speaker 03

  I don't, I only saw this when it happened. I haven't dug into it.

• 1:22:09Shawn Ryan?

  Well, there's this, there's this theory that, that the, the microphone is what did it. Have you heard about that?

• 1:22:14Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:22:15Shawn Ryan?

  Have you heard? Yeah, there's a theory that there were some type of explosives and maybe some type of a projectile planted on the microphone.

• 1:22:24Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 1:22:24Shawn Ryan?

  That suppose, you know, that's, I mean, I don't, these are all theories, you know, this is stuff that I'm seeing, but yeah, there's a lot of weird shit going on around about it, but you know what I mean? Is the, is the, are the, are the fucking conspiracy theories a psy-op? I mean, you see what I'm, it's to create a certain narrative. I mean,

• 1:22:43Speaker 03

  Who knows?

• 1:22:43Shawn Ryan?

  I don't fucking know. I don't even know where to look anymore. I mean, the mainstream isn't gonna, they're not gonna go against whatever the government wants to push out, you know, and then, and then on the other side, you've got everybody and- That's diving into the different scenarios, but I mean, they're getting huge numbers talking about it. And so it's can I put all the confidence into that? I don't fucking know where to look.

• 1:23:10Speaker 03

  I did a video about it on my YouTube channel. And the whole video was about the psyop aspect of it, not not the assassination itself, but how the assassination is the result of this division. And this massive push outside of of this midline ground of being exposed to these people in politics on either side. And I think there's a lot of psyops there, but I think the one thing that people need to realize is if I go into a Best Buy right now to go get a laptop. And let's say I get a Windows unit and they're like, oh, you want you want this antivirus thing? And I was like, no, I can't. My computer can't get viruses.

• 1:23:55Speaker 03

  I am more vulnerable thinking that I'm immune than somebody who understands how easy it is to hack into a human being and actually pays attention during their day. It doesn't mean you need to be paranoid or anything like that. It just needs you need to know when when is my focus being captured? When am I being shown authority? When am I being kind of grounded in tribalism? And when is my emotion being triggered or set off by something? And if you've got that, and that's the closest thing to kind of antivirus that we got.

• 1:24:23Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. Interesting. What did you what were you talking about in the video about Charlie Kirk's assassination?

• 1:24:31Speaker 03

  It wasn't about Kirk.

• 1:24:32Shawn Ryan?

  It was about the violence, the political violence is a result of the psyops.

• 1:24:37Speaker 03

  And and the result is that you've heard of the bystander effect before that cities, if we have apathy for everyone around us, because our brains cannot pay attention to a city of three million people, we can't care about everybody. That's why you get closer to cities. People drive like assholes because they don't care. You go in the country and everybody's nice to each other because we depend on our reputation. In a city, you don't. You'll never see those people again. So in many ways. Being around that many people can start to create some little bits of human apathy, where I don't have any empathy to other people anymore. I can't have empathy for everyone if I live in Dallas or Chicago. That's too much.

• 1:25:21Speaker 03

  My, my life would be, I would be suffering depression every day. There's somebody getting stabbed, there's a car accident that happened last night. You can't have it. But in a city, it's just so overwhelming that I think we are getting to a point of showing these little, little tiny bits of sociop- uh, sociopathy around a lot of these cities.

• 1:25:41Shawn Ryan?

  Sociopathy?

• 1:25:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. Just somebody becoming a sociopath.

• 1:25:46Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:25:47Speaker 03

  Becoming immune to feeling any kind of empathy for, for other people. And this happened in New York, um, in the sixties. There was a woman named, named Kitty Genovese. She was stabbed thirty something times over the course of several minutes and screamed. And there were somewhere around thirty-five witnesses and the police weren't called. Because everybody thought someone else might call the police. I don't know what it is, somebody else is gonna handle it. And they went back into their house. And she died on the street. And maybe somebody called the police a, a little later or something, but this happens in these large cities. I'm not saying go, go live in the woods and start a farmer's Amish market somewhere.

• 1:26:31Speaker 03

  I'm saying like, you have to be aware that a lot of what's happening now is, we're seeing people celebrating the death of a, a public figure. That's, that's sociopathy. That is the beginning of the complete loss of empathy for other people because of just weaponized identity and weaponized cognitive dissonance.

• 1:26:51Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think this was all done on purpose? I mean, so, you know, we, we, we see...

• 1:27:00Shawn Ryan?

  Tweets, news, people talking about this, you know, on, especially with the Kirk assassination. I mean, it's, it's, it's, a lot of people are saying, this is, this is the result of, you know, this guy's a Nazi, this guy's a, um, um, a fascist, this guy's, you know, is that what it stems from, or is it the desensit- desensitization, des- whatever? I mean, the week before that, right? We saw, we saw the black guy in the subway stab a Ukrainian girl, what, three or four times in the neck.

• 1:27:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:34Shawn Ryan?

  Super graphic shit, I mean, it's, this is what I'm talking about with the algorithm cage too, I mean, that happened, every fucking post I saw was that, over and over and over. I've seen some pretty gruesome shit throughout my career, but I don't want to continue seeing that stuff. A week later, Charlie Kirk getting shot in the neck, you know, every single post for days was that.

• 1:27:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:59Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and, and so, you have, you have, you know, this is the end of democracy, this is, this guy's a Nazi, this guy's a fascist, this is, you know what I mean? You have all of the, that, people just dumping gas on the flame that way. And then on the other fact, you know, you have the, and you fucking see it, I mean, you, not one person on that damn subway train, at least not on the video, stood up and did a damn thing about it. You know, you had Daniel Penny fucking choke that guy out of New York City, he's the only one that acted, I mean, time and time again, this is-

• 1:28:34Speaker 03

  And he suffered a social consequence for it.

• 1:28:36Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, you know, and, and, and, and you see, I mean, this is another thing that happens to me on X all the time, you know, you see these street fights or police guy, what, just some type of an altercation, some type of violence, and if you actually watch, if you click on it, even if you don't click on it, just sits on your, if you slow the scroll down and you're like, oh, what happens? Dude, the next thing is just all people getting the shit beat out of them. People getting jumped. Black people beating up white people, white people beating up black people, fucking. It it it. It it it stirs it up. You look at one thing of of people looting a store in California. The next thing you know, the next twenty posts are fucking people.

• 1:29:18Shawn Ryan?

  And then you start to think like, holy shit, this demographic of people, this is all the fuck they do. They just loot, fuck things up and and creates that division. So I guess what I'm asking is this, is it all by design? Or is this, is this?

• 1:29:36Shawn Ryan?

  Is this a byproduct of just?

• 1:29:41Shawn Ryan?

  Is this just happening naturally? Is it, is it by design or is it happening naturally? And this is just a byproduct of it?

• 1:29:47Speaker 03

  I think with the algorithm, it's a byproduct. And I think it's happening by design from media.

• 1:29:53Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:29:54Speaker 03

  And I, and I think it's maybe desired by a lot of people. And I wasn't going to talk about this at all, but there's a protocol to get somebody to confess to a crime. And it's a four step protocol. And when I teach interrogation, this is the way that we teach it. And it's also the way that you can get someone to do something that's not in their best interest. So I studied this for a long time. All the ways you can use hypnosis or conversations or movement or having authority. All these little things that we can do to make someone do something that's not in their best interest. We train an intelligence officer.

• 1:30:34Speaker 03

  He's got to go talk somebody into, you know, turning over secrets or something where he could face the death penalty. Or he could face jail time for doing what what he's going to do. So the way that you get someone to confess to a crime. And this, I promise this is going to relate back to what you're talking about. Is socialize, minimize, rationalize and project. So those four things. If I socialize the issue first, let's, let me give you the crime example and then I'll, I'll unpack it into social media. In a crime example.

• 1:31:13Speaker 03

  Let's say I'm talking to you and you're charged with robbing a store. You took a thousand dollars from a seven eleven somewhere.

• 1:31:24Speaker 03

  So socializing would be, you know, Sean, I think, once people understand who you are and what you're going through in your life, that what you did is going to make perfect sense to everybody, and people are going to understand. Minimize is next. And I'm a detective here, and I talk to people who take millions of dollars all the time. I talk to murderers and homicide victims. I talk to families of homicide victims. What we're talking about here isn't a big deal. What you did is not a big deal. You made a mistake. And I just don't want you to think it's a big deal. I talk to people who do this all the time, and they get over it, and it's something people get through very quickly. It's not a big deal.

• 1:32:08Speaker 03

  Rationalize is the next step. So we did socialize, minimize. Now we have rationalize. And the rationalize part, depending on what it is, I'll rationalize the crime. Sometimes you blame the victim, depending on what crime it is. But I know you were working at that 7-Eleven. I've looked at the pay. He's paying you guys jack shit. He's not taking care of you guys. And I know you have an aunt that is in the hospital, and her chemotherapy bills are piling up. And I think that you did this for the right reason. And then, project. And at the end of the day, this isn't your fault.

• 1:32:50Speaker 03

  You reacted in a way that a human reacts in a situation that you were in. So I'm seeing a socialize. I'm seeing a minimize. It's not a big deal. I'm seeing a rationalize. I'm seeing a lot of rationalizing going on. So, socialize, people are going to understand. Everybody gets it. Everybody agrees with you. Minimize, it's not a big deal. Rationalize, it makes total sense. And then, project, it's not your fault.

• 1:33:20Speaker 03

  And that interrogation formula to get someone to do something that's not in their best interest is what we're seeing on social media, exactly what you were talking about.

• 1:33:30Shawn Ryan?

  Damn. And you think that social media is just a byproduct of the algorithm? Think mainstream media, this is all done, it is on purpose, it is by design.

• 1:33:41Speaker 03

  I do, and it's so effective. And it's not just, let me divide everybody. It's also, how do we sell these cowboy boots for this ad that's going to come up from this one company? It's also that. So I have to get you down this rabbit hole far enough that you're not going to click off, but then also have to isolate you away from things that are going to piss you off enough to where you're going to leave the app. And I have to kind of navigate that little road there. And I am a victim, the watch that I'm wearing right now is from an Instagram ad. So I'm not immune to any of this stuff.

• 1:34:24Speaker 03

  But you're seeing so much of that stuff. It's socialize, rationalize, minimize, and project. It's not your fault. And that is a recipe for something that's not in your best interest. And it's terrifying.

• 1:34:41Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think we're going to see an uptick in political violence? A lot of people think that was a turning point.

• 1:34:48Speaker 03

  I do think that's going to happen because we're not seeing a lot of people coming toward the middle. Maybe there's something happening that I'm not seeing. I'm not on social media. I mean, I have social media accounts and stuff, but I'm not on there. It's not on my phone. It's not on my iPad. And I have to log into the website if I want to do it.

• 1:35:10Speaker 03

  But I'm definitely thinking that everything that we're seeing right now is made to set something up. And this did not look like an amateur. I will say that you're an operator. You've spent some time over there doing this stuff. It didn't look like an amateur did any of that stuff. So it looks like there's something's being set up.

• 1:35:36Speaker 03

  But if you go back on that formula, the way that an infomercial works

• 1:35:43Speaker 03

  is to socialize the product to you, to minimize the cost and minimize how big of a deal it is to make the purchase, to rationalize how to make that purchase and say that it's only three easy payments of $19.99 or whatever it is, and then project. Like, most people don't own this, and the only reason they don't own it is because they didn't know about it before.

• 1:36:05Speaker 03

  Let's take a quick break.

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• 1:39:45Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Chase, we're back from the break. I want to get into some hypnosis stuff with you, but I'd like to kind of wrap up the psyops stuff right off the, before we dive into that here real quick. So, you know, there was a couple of things just left on the outline I wanted to hit. One was manipulation tactics foreign governments use to make normal people do violent things. I mean, can you elaborate on that a little bit? Would this, would this go into bot farms and stuff like that as well?

• 1:40:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, so what the, the goal of a bot farm is to inflate tribe and authority. And it could be focus if something is novel or, or unique enough. So, a bot farm can do that and that's like, let's say there's something massively unique or different or interesting, then we, it's so pervasive that a few authority figures or celebrities retweet it or repost it somewhere. And then there's so many accounts that it, that has the appearance of looking like other people in my tribe are liking this and it's normalized to these other people in my tribe, so it must be popular. Therefore, and without me, there's

• 1:40:59Speaker 03

  no logic to this. Our brain's not logically going through these steps. We automatically accept things that we think the tribe is accepting, which is how these like weird stupid ass ideas spread so quickly because we have the illusion of lots of people doing this one behavior.

• 1:41:17Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, okay. What is, what are some things they would project to get people to do violent things? I mean, anything outside of what we've already talked about, about division and, you know, aligning with a certain tribe and all of that kind of stuff?

• 1:41:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, so if I wanted you, let's say I want to weaponize Sean. I'm gonna show you videos of bad, bad group of people doing really, really bad things all the time. And the more I can show that to you, you're, you're building up hatred and all this other stuff. But what am I really shifting? What's the second step of psyops that we talked about is shifting context. The only time that you'll really want to kill someone, if you've never killed anybody before, let's say, John that works at H&R Block, like, we need to weaponize that guy. He has to be in a situation where he thinks he is preventing death or violence.

• 1:42:11Speaker 03

  And if I can shift that context into a violence scenario, your brain is already put into a place of this is a context where violence is acceptable and normal.

• 1:42:22Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, good. Oh, good.

• 1:42:24Speaker 03

  So it's perception, then context. And then you, that's, it's a PCP model. It's what we teach in NCI. You shift perception, then context, and then it equals permission. Perception, context, and permission. Those three things.

• 1:42:39Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. Learned a lot of stuff here. What is the, what is this, what is the neuroscience behind psyop?

• 1:42:49Speaker 03

  It is, the, the actual neuroscience is that it's, it's weaponizing part of our brain that's looking around to see what everyone else is doing and to see if I should change. There's a part of our brain called the locus ceruleus. This is how we detect facial expressions in other people and whether or not you know in a grocery store whether someone's gonna punch you or try to offer you a coupon or something. But this is our sensor for is everything going as planned? Is everything going as it should right now? And the moment that stuff goes off, then we have novelty. So our brain says, whoop, there's something new I need to focus on that. So that, that little focusing part of our brain is called the reticular formation. And

• 1:43:30Speaker 03

  that's the part that's active, like when you're, if you're buying a, a white Toyota Tundra, and you look at them on the internet for a month, and then you finally buy a white Toyota Tundra, you're gonna see them everywhere. Because your brain, since you've been looking at it, says, oh, the human thinks that this is important, so I'm gonna search for it everywhere I go. So that's our brain's little focusing mechanism. So if, if I've-

• 1:43:54Shawn Ryan?

  Is there a way to shut that off?

• 1:43:58Speaker 03

  No. I would say definitively no.

• 1:44:02Speaker 03

  So if I have told the mammalian part of my brain over and over again that this one thing is important, then the brain will just look for it everywhere. Like, there's no, it's not like everyone went out and bought a tundra at the same time as you. It's that you told your reticular formation or reticular activating system that that thing was important. And the brain said, okay, Sean's looking at this one thing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna search for it. I'm gonna find it everywhere. Which also means that at the end of the day, you may, maybe somebody comes home and they're like, hey, I saw 17 other tundras on the road just on my way home from work. It's insane. I didn't realize everybody had one. But you'll never be able to tell somebody how many Toyota Corollas you saw on the road, because your

• 1:44:46Speaker 03

  brain wasn't searching for them. So, a lot of times, our experience of the world is not really reality. Our experience is what our reticular formation thinks is important and what it's searching for, and it will just kind of delete everything else. So our definition of the world is our definition of the reticular formation's priorities.

• 1:45:06Shawn Ryan?

  Very interesting. Very interesting. What, can you explain the connection between cults in brainwashing techniques?

• 1:45:18Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. So, brainwashing follows a four-step formula. And that is, it spells out the word fear. So we had fate earlier, now we have fear. And that's focus, emotion, agitation, and repetition. So, I'm gonna gain your focus with tons of new, novel stuff. I'm gonna get you in and take you through this quiz, or this personality quiz. I'm gonna get you in and take you to this candlelight ceremony that's kind of soft and, and kind. Then an emotion happens. Now we have love bombing, or now you have to go through some trial or tribulation, some initiation. Then agitation. Now I have to disrupt patterns in your life.

• 1:46:04Speaker 03

  So if you normally do one thing, I'm gonna tell you to do something different in your life. You're gonna have to come in here every other day. So I'm gonna agitate your schedule. I might agitate your social circle and say you need to disconnect from all those friends. So I'm gonna do something to make your brain, it's novelty, just like what we've been talking about. So I'm gonna inject as much novelty in your life as possible to agitate your brain so that it's brand new. I can rewire your brain because of that agitation. And then the final step of brainwashing is repetition. So it's work in the same way that you would brainwash anybody. It's the exact same way that cults work. Gain the focus, get them into an emotional state, and we talked about this at the very beginning of

• 1:46:44Speaker 03

  the show, that fractionation state, up and down, up and down. And they go down a little deeper every single time, which is very similar to hypnosis. And then I get the agitation, I'm gonna disrupt your life. So like, if you wanna change your life, somebody out there, like, I'm gonna set goals, I'm gonna make a million dollars this month, or, you know, whatever the goal is, I need to get that to myself. I'm gonna brainwash myself using the exact same formula. So it's not like it's a bad formula. I'm gonna harness my focus and where it goes through. I'm gonna, I'm gonna target all the emotions that I need to get. I'm gonna get pumped and motivated and all these things. I'm gonna get negatively motivated away from what I don't want. I'm gonna agitate my life to tell my brain that

• 1:47:27Speaker 03

  something is very different as much as possible. Maybe I'll paint a room differently. Maybe I'll rearrange the furniture. Maybe I'll buy a new car. Maybe I'll shift my wardrobe around. Maybe I'll brush my teeth with my left hand. I'm gonna do all kinds of things to agitate my brain so it knows that something is different. And then repetition. So I can change my life that way for the good or for bad.

• 1:47:49Shawn Ryan?

  Makes sense. Makes sense. When you, I mean, you do hypnosis too?

• 1:47:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:55Shawn Ryan?

  Why did you get into hypnosis?

• 1:47:57Speaker 03

  It seemed cool. That's, like, there's a guy in the UK, his name is Darren Brown. Maybe, I don't know if you've seen videos of him, but he was on Rogan. And he did this like stuff that looked like magic to me and I wanted to learn it. But I got obsessed with like, what, what is it that makes people do things that are not in their best interests? And I read about people committing crimes using hypnosis. And like, there was a story in Russia where the, this lady would go up to someone and then after about 60 seconds, she would ask them to hand over their wallet and their watch and all the money in their pocket and they would just willingly hand it over.

• 1:48:40Speaker 03

  And she would say, okay, you're, and you're just fine. You were walking that way. And they would walk off and they would report to the police like, I don't know what happened. She asked for those things, so I just handed them over and then it was, I was really confused. Uh, so that was fascinating to me. I wanted to learn how to do it. But it also, you can do all kinds of amazing positive things for somebody with hypnosis. You can get somebody out of an eating disorder or out of depression or all kinds of stuff. Make them quit smoking or quit drinking. So hypnosis is just a cool thing that we go into naturally. And we're, we're trance machines. All of us go into and out of trance or what trance is, which we can dig into if you want.

• 1:49:22Speaker 03

  But it's essentially our theta wave brain function, about seven hertz cycles per second of brainwaves. And that means our brain is hyperplastic, hyper suggestible. And that's why like from age zero to seven, we're in that theta brainwave state almost exclusively. Which is why like when you're a kid, you can learn four or five languages and they're like, yeah, I know all those. It wasn't stressful, it wasn't hard. You could learn Russian and Spanish and Swahili all at the same time. So that theta wave state is what you're accessing in hypnosis. And we go into and out of it two or three times a day naturally. Um, and that's all really hypnosis is, and we could dig into whatever you want.

• 1:50:06Speaker 03

  But hypnosis is a lot of fun and what got me into it was like, I thought it would be bad. I thought it would make me cool.

• 1:50:13Shawn Ryan?

  What, I mean, you were just talking about the trance and if we want to dive into it, we can go deeper. What, let's do it. What is that?

• 1:50:20Speaker 03

  So trance is a mixture of three big things. So it's an increase in suggestibility, an increase in your level of focus. Like how much I can take your attention and kind of pull it all down into one little place. And it's an increase in your dissociation. So and this is when I'm kind of separating from my body a little bit in my mind and not, I'm not like doing out of body experiences, but I'm getting to a place where you, your mind and your body are two different things. I'm gonna relax your body and we know that once you're in that state, a lot of changes, mental changes become way easier. So you

• 1:51:02Speaker 03

  could use it to save someone's life, which I did on a Delta Airlines flight. There's a guy that was gonna hurt himself and he was jacked, huge dude, like scary. Like I knew that he would probably kill me. And I hypnotized him in the front of the plane and he had a, the rest of the flight was absolutely fine. And Delta gave me, I think, a thousand points for that as a thank you. Nice. So you can use it for all kinds of stuff. And from a neuroscience perspective, there's two big things happening with hypnosis. The first is your brain floods with this

• 1:51:46Speaker 03

  chemical called GABA, which is gamma immunobutyric acid, and it's our inhibitory neurotransmitter. It's the one neurotransmitter, or the biggest neurotransmitter in the brain that calms everything down. Let's just, let's just chill. Brings your heart rate down, relaxes your body, relaxes your mind and like what you're focusing on. And the second is this other chemical called homovanilic acid, which they've only been able to detect recently through spinal fluid under hypnosis, which increases in the brain. And those things allow your brain to become really plastic. So if you have a good hypnotist, then a person can actually help you. And this is proven by the American Medical Association, the American

• 1:52:30Speaker 03

  Psychological Association. It's a proven method of treatment for a lot of stuff. But not everybody's easily hypnotizable. So people have varying levels of suggestibility. Okay. What's the process like to hypnotize somebody? It's pretty straightforward. We'll fix your mind on something.

• 1:52:53Speaker 03

  Uh, dispel the rumors and myths that people get like, you're not gonna be deaf, you're not in a coma, you're gonna hear my voice the whole time, you're not gonna get stuck, you can't get stuck in hypnosis. And this is not something I do professionally hardly ever. But you talk to them in such a way that their focus is there, you're telling them to focus on something, you help them relax their body. And this full like body relaxation where you hear someone say like, your shoulders are falling and faces relaxing and all this. If your body starts relaxing, we start releasing a little bit more GABA in our brain. And you just kind of count down 10 to 1 and helping somebody go into trance and then you just kind of say sleep.

• 1:53:37Speaker 03

  And that expectation of trance is what really sends someone into a deliberate trance instead of a random trance that we go into naturally. And once they're in there, then you can do the suggestions like, you know, every time you reach for a cigarette, you're gonna be nauseous or, you know, whatever a hypnotist might say. The only, only clients I really work with with hypnosis is a, and this is kind of fascinating. I work one-on-one with people every once in a while, a few times a year, where we will do a full-on simulation, including having a medical doctor there, of a gastric band surgery. To where they go through the entire experience of having that surgery done, they can feel

• 1:54:20Speaker 03

  that band being placed on the stomach, they go through the surgery in their mind, and then they actually wear a bandage for a couple of weeks after. And they get about 80% of the results of, 80, 85% of results of what a gastric band surgery would do. Are you serious? Dead serious. Holy shit. So this has been used for several things like that. And just a few months ago, the first brain surgery, open brain surgery was done with no anesthetic and only hypnosis. What? Yeah. And they've been using it as anesthesia for 100 years almost. For dental, you can have teeth removed and they've done limb amputations where the person couldn't feel any pain.

• 1:55:05Speaker 03

  It is pretty powerful stuff. How do you know when they've arrived at him? I don't know. I don't think there's a perfect indicator unless the person you're doing it with is wearing an EEG, like a brain scan machine. But you see their breathing shift. You'll see, most of us breathe from our chest, you know, when we're in conversation with people, you'll see it shift down into the belly. You'll see, even if their eyes are closed, you'll see the eyes kind of look up. Like, if you try to look at the center of your head from behind, like, you'll see the eyes kind of move in that direction, kind of roll upward.

• 1:55:40Speaker 03

  There's a few indicators that, that we look for, and those are the big ones. But the thing is that somebody might say, "Oh, I tried hypnosis a few years ago to quit smoking and it, and it didn't work," or "I don't, I don't think hypnosis works." But if you went down to Tijuana and got facial surgery by some drunk doctor, you're not going to say, "Surgery doesn't work." You're going to say, "I saw a bad surgeon," right? So, who you see when it comes to hypnosis makes a huge difference. And whether or not they're, like, with my clients, we do neurotransmitter analysis. We do blood work and all of that 60 days prior to the appointment. So, everything is kind of balanced and, and going well before it even starts.

• 1:56:25Shawn Ryan?

  So, what, what, what is it that happened when you say, uh, whatever you said, you know, if you eat whatever thing, you're going to become nauseous afterwards? I mean, that is, I mean, that is, that's in there.

• 1:56:38Speaker 03

  It's in there deep. But we're setting up, it's not just me saying those words. We're setting, we're setting their brain up to receive that data in a very specific file in their file cabinet. So, I want the really important file, not the, "Hey, this is something some dude said." I want them to pull that big, important file out. And there's some phrases and words we use to get that file drawer opened and pull that file out for things that are permanent and things that are important, and get the old file out and put that new one in there. But you make it really vivid, too. So, like, you'll actually, like, if, if someone's under hypnosis, you can have them change their body temperature, you can have them alter their heart rate, you can have them not bleed. There's YouTube videos

• 1:57:21Speaker 03

  on this where they keep, they pulled people's skin up and shoved a needle through there and told them not to bleed on that hand. You can have them change the body temperature of one hand versus another from blood flow. It's and this is proven. This is peer reviewed research. So it is a really powerful tool, but it can be obviously weaponized like anything that's powerful and awesome. Like you got an M four up here and that thing can be a tool for good. It could be a tool for bad.

• 1:57:51Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, you know, this, I don't know. This, this, this makes MKUltra pop in my mind.

• 1:57:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:57Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, it sounds

• 1:58:00Shawn Ryan?

  kind of similar.

• 1:58:01Speaker 03

  There's a lot of that stuff.

• 1:58:02Shawn Ryan?

  Do you?

• 1:58:03Speaker 03

  I, yeah, I know a lot about MKUltra.

• 1:58:07Shawn Ryan?

  Let's hear about it.

• 1:58:09Speaker 03

  There is a, well, the background to it is the government was freaking out that there were guys in the Korean War saying, America's bad. I renounce my citizenship. I hate America, Korea, yeah, Korea, boo, America, kind of videos. And they're like, what? There's some technology because these are patriotic Americans being told to do all this stuff. So there was a start of what I would refer to as a mental arms race. And the Soviets were also doing this stuff too. And this is where you had weird stuff going on. We had like start project Stargate, like the men who stare at goats movie and remote viewing and all this other stuff was going on. Then they started MKUltra,

• 1:58:56Speaker 03

  which involved a lot of former Nazi scientists and involved a lot of LSD and dosing people with massive, massive doses of LSD and ruining a lot of people's lives in the process. But it was an attempt initially to find some kind of a truth serum. And actually the Navy participated in the biggest one, which was called Project Chatter, which is a sub project of MKUltra.

• 1:59:26Speaker 03

  And with this, this guy, he's a professor at

• 1:59:34Speaker 03

  It's in Hamilton, New York. I can't remember the name of the, Colgate University. His name's Dr. Georgia Esther Brooks. And he and J. Edgar Hoover are collaborating on a plan to use hypnosis to capture and hypnotize a German submarine captain and give him alter identities. So, and send him back to his fleet in Germany and have him torpedo the entire German fleet inside the harbor. And this was a legit plan. And I have access to the documents that survived the destruction order. And it was called Super Spy.

• 2:00:18Speaker 03

  And do you do show notes? Like the PDF in the comment, or PDF in the description thing? Shit, I would have sent it to you. So people can download it, but.

• 2:00:28Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, we'll do it. We'll do it. We've done it before. I thought you meant every, yeah, we'll do it.

• 2:00:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I'll send it to you so people can actually look at these. Cause they're not public record.

• 2:00:37Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 2:00:38Speaker 03

  I went to this guy's house, talked to a family member. These were like old stuff that survived the CIA's destruction order of all of this stuff. But it got weird. I mean, you, these guys had lots of power. This was called the OSS, which as you know, pretty well back then. Uh, we've got this guy running the show. His name's Wild Bill Donovan. And he, uh, his instructions to the lead guys in every unit was to make Mary hell. When it came to MKUltra. And they did this one project called Project Midnight Climax. Have you heard of this?

• 2:01:19Speaker 03

  They took prostitutes in San Francisco. And these women would lure these men back to the hotel and drug them with LSD. Like high dose LSD. And on the other side of a two-way mirror, these scientists would be back there writing down God knows what. Uh, because that's all we really know about the whole program. But they were also experimenting with aerosol LSD. Like, can we disperse it into a crowd? Can we disperse it over a city? What does it do in water supplies? And just some insane stuff.

• 2:02:00Speaker 03

  But they discovered this way to create a Manchurian candidate. And this is a lot of where some of these ideas came from. And this guy, George Estabrooks, perfected, or back then had perfected, this system to create a Manchurian candidate to where he could create an alter ego inside of an army officer. One of them was the normal officer, and they called him Jones A. And there was a Jones B. And we could send this guy through enemy lines, doing whatever. Jones A. is a normal army officer. Jones B. is carrying these vital classified secrets, radio frequencies, you know, whatever it is.

• 2:02:45Speaker 03

  I made that last part up, the frequency part up. Who knows what he's carrying? So if Jones A. gets captured, Jones B. doesn't activate until he hears a very specific hypnotic phrase or hypnotic command under hypnosis. And they do that on the other side of the line. So they developed this stuff way back when. And one of the doctors working on this whole project was named Dr. Joylin West, who may have been involved with the Sirhan Sirhan situation and Bobby Kennedy. And which is a whole nother rabbit hole. But it looks like Sirhan Sirhan to me.

• 2:03:29Speaker 03

  I'm 100% convinced that he was programmed to do that. No shit. It's not hard to do. I mean, look at the Milgram experiment. Forty minutes, kill a stranger. And they didn't use hypnosis. There was no like cool sales tactic or script that they had to follow. You don't, everybody's concerned with like, what do I say? What are the exact words I need to say? It's can you trigger the fate model? Focus, emotion, I'm sorry, focus, authority, tribe and emotion. And if you get that, you get compliance. And if you get that plus hypnosis, then you can create the Manchurian candidate. And it's not that hard to do. You don't need a bunch of advanced training to get that done.

• 2:04:10Speaker 03

  And I've studied that for a long time. So when I work with one-on-one clients who need a breakthrough or something like that, I'll use the exact same method to create an alter ego in a person that maybe doesn't eat six pounds of cheesecake every day. So you could take the exact same thing and put it in someone else that benefits them and acts as maybe a drill sergeant or a disciplinarian. And the first, the reason that I started doing this or got interested in it, there are case studies and reports of people with dissociative identity disorder. So like two personalities or multiple personalities inside of a person,

• 2:04:53Speaker 03

  where one of them has a medically diagnosable condition and the other one does not.

• 2:04:57Shawn Ryan?

  Are you shitting me?

• 2:04:59Speaker 03

  No, this is proven. Like one of them could be cortically blind, or one could have color blindness. One of them could have some kind of a diabetic condition. There were several conditions where these other personalities would have allergies even, skin allergies and rashes in response to cat hair. And just upon reading this, I'm thinking like, well, could I make someone with severe depression have an alter ego that doesn't have the depression? And we know that neurons that fire together, wire together. So over the course of six months, if they keep doing this,

• 2:05:42Speaker 03

  can they kind of like rewire their brain if this alter keeps taking over? Of course, I didn't know. I played with it for a really long time. And man, our brains are fascinating and how fast they can change and adapt. And if you've got a good person working with you, you can get a lot done.

• 2:06:03Speaker 03

  But that, I think the only other way to really alter mental plasticity that fast would be psychedelics. This was like ketamine or a DMT or something like that.

• 2:06:14Shawn Ryan?

  So how would, is it a hypnosis? I mean, because the way it's described is they're injecting thoughts, right?

• 2:06:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it probably there was never a recipe. My estimation is that it was a micro dose of LSD because you, as you know, in psychedelics, language loses more and more meaning the more psychedelics you do. So I was thinking it was a micro dose of LSD. Massive amounts of hypnosis to where the person's hyper responsive to that person's voice. It's like when I see clients, they listen to my MP3 audio thing that's hypnosis to just help them go to sleep every night. So by the time they show up and see me in person, their, their brain is hyper responsive to, to my voice and it's, it's a lot easier. Um, and then during that process, in my estimation, they used

• 2:07:05Speaker 03

  real trauma like oxygen deprivation or something like that to create a traumatic brain response inside of the limbic system of our brain, which makes us dissociate. And during this process of dissociation is when they put that second dissociated person or part of them or I don't know how, the words to say, but they're dissociated. So while they're dissociated, they hypnotize them and then kind of create that alter ego. Tell them how they activate, tell them when they come up and when they, what their personality is, what they like to do. You're, you're here to protect the host. So like, if I did this to you, Sean B's job would be to protect Sean A. Does that make?

• 2:07:49Shawn Ryan?

  Man, man, kind of. A little bit. I mean, I don't, I don't understand how person B comes out though. You know what I mean? How, how does, how is that determined?

• 2:08:00Speaker 03

  Person B comes out through dissociation.

• 2:08:04Speaker 03

  So that's where we get the named dissociative identity disorder. So when a person is going through some kind of traumatic event, you'll talk to somebody, I think you had someone on your show who mentioned this, who goes through trauma and they just kind of like exit their body temporarily, or exit this one globe of consciousness into this other piece. And when they shift over to this other piece, you can separately create this piece and give them an identity, give them a name. And if I can make something real in your head, then I can create it in reality for you. Which is why a lot of these cases of dissociative identity disorder were created by

• 2:08:47Speaker 03

  the psychiatrists in the seventies and eighties and the nineties. Because, and this is called iatrogenic dissociative identity disorder. So if you came to me, I keep using you as the example, but there's nobody else here. If, Sean, if you came to me and I was a psychiatrist and we were working together, you say, well, I have this thing going on in my life and it's X and Y and Z. And all I did was start talking about two different parts of you. And I say, it seems like there's a part of you that wants to eat the right thing, but there's also a part of you that wants to overeat. You're like, yeah. And then I go into five or six other examples in your life. Is this like this in social situations?

• 2:09:29Speaker 03

  Is there a part of you that wants to hide and there's a part of you that wants to socialize? Yeah. So I go into all these parts. And then I'd say, you know what, I'd like you to take a questionnaire. And this questionnaire is maybe seventeen questions. And a lot of these people made it up on the spot, these little questionnaires. And if I tell you that you scored high in dissociative identity, I'd say like, this person, this other part of you has their own thoughts, their own behaviors, their own life. And I think a lot of your issues are from not addressing this other part of you that wants to do these other things. And they're probably here to keep you safe. So just really quick, just between you and I,

• 2:10:13Speaker 03

  if that other part of you had a name, what would you want to name that other part? And you say, Steven. And I'm like, alright, so I'd like to talk to Steven now. So within the course of one session,

• 2:10:27Speaker 03

  I have a conversation with Sean, I have a conversation with Steven. And by the third or fourth session, you're fully living your life as if there are two people in your head. Yeah. Because what happens there? There's a lot of novelty, focus, a lot of authority, because there's a guy in a lab coat or a guy in the psychology sweater vest, holding the clipboard there, taking you through a lot of this stuff. The authority and your expectation is, is what sets the stage for this to, to become a reality. So you can get, you can accidentally get dissociative identity from a provider. Wow. And this is very well documented. And so what was the point of MKUltra?

• 2:11:14Speaker 03

  Who know? I don't know. You don't know? I think the initial aim was to figure out the perfect truth serum, which they thought LSD was some miracle for truth serum. Uh, and they were testing sodium amitole, which is another drug that's pretty well known as a, as a good truth serum. And they were trying to figure out, can we really brainwash people? Can we create Manchurian candidates? Can we split people's personalities? There were so much that it was just wild. It was the Wild West. So it's just looking at what they did, you would, nobody would ever be able to know what the ultimate aim was.

• 2:11:54Shawn Ryan?

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• 2:14:23Shawn Ryan?

  So how would they get Personality B to trigger on demand? But if they were gonna have a Manchurian candidate, or, um, you know, an assassin, or, you know,

• 2:14:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:35Shawn Ryan?

  any, any, you know, bad actors? I mean, how would they, how would they trigger Personality B to carry out whatever the mission is?

• 2:14:45Speaker 03

  It's pretty simple. A lot of repetition. So like, if I continually deprive you of oxygen, and then afterwards, every time you dissociate, I'm saying, "Now, I'm talking to Sean B." And what's your number one goal? You want to protect Sean A, right? And the number one way to do that is to go do this one thing in this place. That's the way to protect. Is that your, is that your goal? Is that what you want to do? Good. And every time you come out, I might set up some kind of a trigger. And once you hear these words, then you have permission to come out and do exactly what you want to do. And it's, it's very easy. It's just setting up the expectation and then rehearsal. That's all hypnosis really is. But when you do it with this Manchurian candidate stuff, it's trauma, expectation, and then repetition.

• 2:15:34Speaker 03

  And it's not hard. I mean, if you could, without any of that trauma, any of that programming, no LSD, strangers will, will kill another stranger in 40 minutes, 67, at a rate of 67%. So people think like there's some advanced, crazy technique that you have to master to do a lot of this stuff. It's a lot simpler than, than most people think.

• 2:15:58Shawn Ryan?

  It's not that advanced.

• 2:15:59Speaker 03

  It's not.

• 2:16:00Shawn Ryan?

  Man, that's fucking scary.

• 2:16:01Speaker 03

  It is terrifying.

• 2:16:02Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think that program's still going on?

• 2:16:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. We're swimming in it. Inside of our phone every day.

• 2:16:09Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah. What, I mean, so what is, we're kind of wrapping up the interview now, Chase, but I'm just, you know, with, with a lot of the things that are coming out today, AI, voice manipulation, I mean, you see a lot of these AI videos that are coming out, they look...

• 2:16:27Shawn Ryan?

  They don't look fake, you know?

• 2:16:30Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:16:30Shawn Ryan?

  They don't look fake. I mean, now they have these programs that will, that will, I mean, you shit, you feed it thirty seconds of your voice and it'll replicate it perfectly.

• 2:16:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:41Shawn Ryan?

  Minus, you know, maybe some highs and lows and, and, and just how you talk as a person, raise your voice, lower your voice, but it'll even start picking that up.

• 2:16:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:50Shawn Ryan?

  Uh, if you give it enough time. So, I mean, what, what are your fears for? What do you think psyops? How, how are they gonna develop?

• 2:16:58Speaker 03

  It can copy your voice. I didn't know it could do that.

• 2:17:01Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah, they can copy your voice.

• 2:17:03Speaker 03

  So I could listen to a romance novel that narrated by you?

• 2:17:07Shawn Ryan?

  You could.

• 2:17:08Speaker 03

  I might try that.

• 2:17:08Shawn Ryan?

  These guys are already doing it to my voice.

• 2:17:11Speaker 03

  No doubt.

• 2:17:12Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:13Speaker 03

  So I think at the end of the day with all this, all this AI, it's gonna do exactly what we've already done. We are in a world where we've got our friend Joe Rogan, he's got more views than almost all of the media.

• 2:17:31Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:17:32Speaker 03

  Because that's contrived, it's narrative driven and it's artificial. And people are, right now, just starving for something more real.

• 2:17:40Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:17:40Speaker 03

  And I think over time, AI is gonna become so pervasive that all we're gonna do is crave something real again. We're gonna get back, we're gonna get into a place of being extremely distrustful of digital assets and digital media in, in, in general. And I think that, that distrust of digital media will drive us back to a place of craving some kind of reality.

• 2:18:04Shawn Ryan?

  Actual human connection.

• 2:18:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I think that it may be the thing that pushes us backward toward where we need to be reconnecting. And I'm not saying it's going to drive that change and, and change the world, but I'm saying it's gonna create that desire for sure. It's gonna create that desire for reality, because we've already got it. And we're already seeing the world's reaction to, to shows like this, like the content that you put out. It's not heavily edited, there's not some narrative being cast and all that stuff, it's super real. And people are already starting to crave that stuff, and I think this is just gonna push it even further.

• 2:18:40Shawn Ryan?

  Well, that's good to hear. That's good to hear. I was, I was expecting something a lot darker than that. So, being honest.

• 2:18:48Speaker 03

  I brought you a present, by the way.

• 2:18:50Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, right up. Oh, I got you a little something too. I've heard all kinds of shit at this interview, I was getting

• 2:18:58Speaker 03

  This is the uh

• 2:19:03Speaker 03

  Pop that thing open. And I got one for your team as well.

• 2:19:11Speaker 03

  So this is my newest book. There's a paperback of it on Amazon. But it is every dangerous thing you ever wanted to know about reading people and all that kind of stuff.

• 2:19:24Shawn Ryan?

  Behavior Ops. This is your newest book?

• 2:19:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, Behavior Ops Manual.

• 2:19:29Shawn Ryan?

  And Thank you.

• 2:19:30Speaker 03

  That spiral on that thing, we've only got like 90 of the spiral versions left. The paperback is on Amazon, but you know Lisa Bilyeu?

• 2:19:39Shawn Ryan?

  No.

• 2:19:40Speaker 03

  Uh, Tom Bilyeu from Impact Theory.

• 2:19:42Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah. Okay.

• 2:19:44Speaker 03

  So his wife, I was on her show with her and she wore that thing as a bracelet, her whole arm of

• 2:19:51Speaker 03

  Spit inside of that spiral.

• 2:19:53Shawn Ryan?

  That's awesome. Man, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I actually, I had a couple of things that, one, gummy bears, every guest gets gets the Vigilance League gummy bears made in the USA, legal in all 50 states.

• 2:20:07Speaker 03

  Let's try one right now.

• 2:20:07Shawn Ryan?

  Let them know what you think.

• 2:20:09Speaker 03

  These are normal gummy bears.

• 2:20:10Shawn Ryan?

  They're, they're normal.

• 2:20:14Shawn Ryan?

  It's just candy.

• 2:20:17Shawn Ryan?

  Fortunately or unfortunately, I don't know.

• 2:20:20Speaker 03

  And they're good.

• 2:20:21Shawn Ryan?

  Not bad, huh?

• 2:20:22Speaker 03

  Actually good.

• 2:20:23Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you. And then, uh, yeah, I usually do this at the beginning, but I've, uh, got a little ahead of myself. This is from, so we have a Patreon account, subscription account. And, uh, one of the things I do is I offer them the opportunity to ask each and every guest a question. This is from Stephen Casey.

• 2:20:42Shawn Ryan?

  With the, with the proliferation of assassination attempts in the past several years, are you at all concerned about the possibility of Manchurian Candidate type scenarios? Is science that far off from being a reality?

• 2:20:58Speaker 03

  Which science?

• 2:21:01Speaker 03

  I think the Manchurian Candidate stuff has been going on for a while. And here's the one thing no one ever talks about. A lot of people talk about this guy's got the skills, this guy did this programming. I think eighty percent of the hard work in doing that stuff is target selection. And who you're gonna pick to do that programming so that their backstory and all that stuff lines up with the agenda that the person has at the end of the day. And it is, it is very possible, and I say this as a person who's like, I've studied probably more than anyone in the world.

• 2:21:41Speaker 03

  The one thing I'll say I might know more than anybody in the world about is this kind of alter ego programming stuff. And

• 2:21:50Speaker 03

  I will say that, that, yes, I'm worried about it. What was his name, John? It's Stephen Casey. Alright, so for Stephen, yes, I'm worried about it. And I don't know if there's a way that we can really do anything about it, sadly.

• 2:22:08Speaker 03

  Being weaponized. So the science is there, and the science to hack the brain is only getting better. And it's, it's going to be a new world very soon. And if, if, like what we talked about, if AI keeps going, we're gonna start this process of like, I need to get back to this craving something real, which is, what we're, if you look at the trends on what people are following, the YouTube channels that are creating more real content, I just last week hit a million subscribers on my channel. Congratulations. Thank you.

• 2:22:47Speaker 03

  People are craving stuff that's not narrative based, it's not feeding you a bunch of bullshit. And people are just talking normally.

• 2:22:58Speaker 03

  I don't think we're gonna go the other way. I hope we, I hope.

• 2:23:01Shawn Ryan?

  And I hope not. But I've been, I've been, I've been hearing and talking about the human connection for several years and, and I hope you're right. I hope it comes back to that because people are not talking.

• 2:23:16Speaker 03

  I think there will be a portion of society that chooses to put on that, that advanced VR experience like,

• 2:23:25Shawn Ryan?

  Neuralink?

• 2:23:26Speaker 03

  Well, I think way in the future that like where you can't distinguish that from reality.

• 2:23:33Speaker 03

  But it's also like, if you look at everything, how everything is a microcosm of the big thing. Our DNA looks like the galaxy and our eyes look like a star and all this kind of stuff.

• 2:23:45Speaker 03

  We, when we were on a break last, we talked about Salvia and how a dude did Salvia and lived like a 30-year life and like had kids and stuff and came back. That, I've read that probably two years ago, I've read about this guy. That haunts me to this day because like, what, what if that's just the next level and we're in that now?

• 2:24:07Shawn Ryan?

  I know.

• 2:24:08Speaker 03

  Like the headset hasn't come off.

• 2:24:09Shawn Ryan?

  I think about that too.

• 2:24:10Speaker 03

  I do all the time.

• 2:24:11Shawn Ryan?

  What if this is a, yeah, what if this is a simulation? What if none of this is actually real?

• 2:24:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:17Shawn Ryan?

  I mean,

• 2:24:20Shawn Ryan?

  I don't even know where to go from there, but I did, I, I do think about that a lot.

• 2:24:25Speaker 03

  More than I should.

• 2:24:27Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:27Speaker 03

  I do too.

• 2:24:28Shawn Ryan?

  What do you think? Do you think we're in a false reality?

• 2:24:31Speaker 03

  I think this is a simulation.

• 2:24:33Shawn Ryan?

  You do?

• 2:24:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:34Shawn Ryan?

  You think this is a simulation?

• 2:24:36Speaker 03

  But I don't think it's computer. That's what I mean, when our ancestors were around, the universe was made of fire and different, different elements of fire because that's.

• 2:24:44Shawn Ryan?

  You think I'm here right now?

• 2:24:46Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:24:47Shawn Ryan?

  You do?

• 2:24:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:48Shawn Ryan?

  You don't think this is only in your, a projection of, of your reality?

• 2:24:52Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:24:54Shawn Ryan?

  Have you ever thought that?

• 2:24:56Speaker 03

  No. But if you look at the Industrial Revolution, the universe was a machine. If you look at the Electrical Revolution, when we started inventing electricity, the universe was all energy. And you look at now, when we're in the age of computers, and the universe is a computer. So we're just using very, very limited, you know, just our small, narrow perspective to make sense of something that's incomprehensible. And when people say like, "Oh, we could not be in a simulation because the computer would be the size of the solar system," or whatever, like, how naive for us to say that they use

• 2:25:37Speaker 03

  computers, or we use computers, or whatever this is, that we have some understanding of it, because we're here, and we're one of the youngest species on the planet. So I think there's not enough scientists out there who say, who don't use the words as far as we know. I think there's too few scientists who don't admit that we haven't got it all figured out.

• 2:26:02Shawn Ryan?

  Now, why do you think we're in a simulation? That's not in a computer simulation?

• 2:26:11Speaker 03

  Well, so first, I would say if you look at the people who've done psychedelics, and all of those lessons, why do they all learn the same lessons? Why are they all getting taught the same kind of thing, mostly?

• 2:26:27Shawn Ryan?

  What would you say those lessons are, other than everything is one? That's what comes to my mind.

• 2:26:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, if we go back to psychedelics. The most ancient spiritual text ever written, I think, was the Hermetic Principles. And this first principle of Hermeticism was, "All is mind. The universe is mental." And this is like, 3,500 years B.C. they're writing this stuff. And the second principle is, "As above, so below."

• 2:27:02Speaker 03

  And man, they had some stuff figured out back then. And I think it's a maybe a simulation in in that what we think is real is probably not real. Like you've the the separation between atoms makes everything like ninety nine point nine nine nine percent empty space like we're just emptiness. And there's so many things, every new discovery of quantum physics and quantum mechanics is proving one of these ancient wisdom principles right.

• 2:27:37Speaker 03

  Every new thing that we figure out this quantum entanglement or quantum tunneling or this double slit experiment.

• 2:27:44Shawn Ryan?

  What's quantum tunneling?

• 2:27:45Speaker 03

  Quantum tunneling is where like a particle can like appear at another location.

• 2:27:50Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm, I haven't heard of this one.

• 2:27:52Speaker 03

  Now, you've heard of quantum entanglement.

• 2:27:53Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I've heard of quantum entanglement.

• 2:27:55Speaker 03

  And I I understand quantum tunneling almost none.

• 2:27:58Shawn Ryan?

  So quantum entangling for the audience is basically if you if you split an atom in half, correct me if I'm wrong, right? You split an atom in half, put, you know, A side over here, you put B side over here. It doesn't matter what the difference is, you could have one on fucking.

• 2:28:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:20Shawn Ryan?

  Pluto and the other one on the sun. And if you if you put a frequency on one, it will mimic the exact same frequency, no matter. It could be a centimeter away from it, it could be a galaxy away from it.

• 2:28:32Speaker 03

  Instantly.

• 2:28:33Shawn Ryan?

  It will it will mimic what side A is doing or side B is doing.

• 2:28:38Speaker 03

  So somehow information travels.

• 2:28:40Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:28:41Speaker 03

  That distance instantly, no need to to use light or anything like that.

• 2:28:46Shawn Ryan?

  They are not, they do not appear to be connected, but no matter what the distance is, they will mimic each other.

• 2:28:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:53Shawn Ryan?

  That's quantum entanglement.

• 2:28:54Speaker 03

  And the double slit experiment says that matter isn't really matter until we observe it and and look at it. I'm dumbing that down and and turning it into a post-it note, but. Essentially says something like that, which is like a look at Minecraft. My kids played Minecraft growing up and like they would fly through the Minecraft game and like the mountains wouldn't materialize into the TV until they got closer and closer to them. And then you'd see him like pop up and reality works the same way, which is unbelievable. And I think we need to acknowledge how little we know. I'm I've studied neuroscience for 12 years now and we don't even know where memories are stored.

• 2:29:38Speaker 03

  We don't know. We don't know how they're made. We don't know what consciousness is. We have no clue of anything about consciousness. We we know so little about the brain. There's probably 70% of the brain, like the anatomical structure of the brain. We're not really sure how they work or what they do. So it's okay. I think it's it should be more okay for a lot of people to admit that we're in our infancy of understanding reality to begin with.

• 2:30:06Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh, uh huh. I mean, yeah, I don't know. I think a lot about this all the time. It's like, is any of this real? Are you here? This is fucking room here? Is this real? Is any of this real?

• 2:30:22Speaker 03

  Well, that goes back to first principle of hermeticism. The all is mind, mental. And I think that that's pretty damn true of like a lot of the things that we see on psychedelics, a lot of the big revelations that people have. And I think a lot of it is like, don't take everything so seriously that you get on mushrooms, that you get from any kind of journey like that. It's like, stop, stop pretending like it's not a game. Like it's just a game. And it's just look at the Bible. The number one most repeating phrase in the Bible is do not fear. 365 times.

• 2:31:03Shawn Ryan?

  I didn't know that either.

• 2:31:07Speaker 03

  Do not fear or be not afraid, like kind of variations on that that theme. Three hundred and sixty-five times, most common phrase in the Bible.

• 2:31:15Shawn Ryan?

  What was quantum tunneling? We didn't we didn't cover that.

• 2:31:19Speaker 03

  I don't know a lot about it, but I know that quantum tunneling proved or went back to the second principle of hermeticism, which was as above, so below. But quantum tunneling is basically like creating some little wormhole.

• 2:31:33Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:31:34Speaker 03

  Somebody else that answers this way better than me.

• 2:31:35Shawn Ryan?

  Manipulation of space and space time or something?

• 2:31:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:31:38Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, I'm gonna have to dig into that one.

• 2:31:41Speaker 03

  It's worth a watch. I feel like I'm underprepared for you to ask me that.

• 2:31:44Shawn Ryan?

  Nah, I wasn't planning on talking about anything quantum. But, uh, but I am curious. You had mentioned you had mentioned that that, you know, these discoveries in the quantum realm are proving ancient theories correct. What are some of those theories that have been proven correct?

• 2:32:01Speaker 03

  The ancient theories.

• 2:32:02Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:02Speaker 03

  Like the all is mind. So when it comes to consciousness as we know it, there's a couple of lead or amazing guys that are doing research right now. Rupert Sheldrake is one of them. Federico Fagin, man, I wish you would get those guys on the show.

• 2:32:22Shawn Ryan?

  You have contact with them?

• 2:32:24Speaker 03

  I will get you in the contact with them, yeah. But he wrote a book called Irreducible, and it's talking about our obsession with materialism. So let's say like if you wanted to understand why a Chopin classical piece makes you cry or makes people cry. You say, okay, we're gonna figure out why this makes people cry. So we're gonna go to the symphony hall, we're gonna take all of these instruments, chop them into five billion pieces, and one at a time, put all the pieces of these instruments under a microscope. I'm gonna zoom in on the wood. I'm gonna zoom in on the strings. And then, oh, somebody's like, oh, shoot, there's there's music over here with notes written on it.

• 2:33:05Speaker 03

  And I'm like, all right, cut the paper up, cut that piece of paper up and put the paper under the microscope so we can figure out music. Let's zoom into a piece of paper. So we're obsessing over material things and we're ignoring things that are harder to prove. And we can't, you cannot do a lab test to see why music works or why love starts happening. And it's not just neurochemical. So we're really just, our modern day is obsessed with materialism and reductionism. So like, let me take this violin down to one shred of wood.

• 2:33:45Speaker 03

  Let me take this entire symphony on a paper and look at one molecule under a microscope. Uh, these guys talk a lot about this stuff, man, and it is, is so profound and beautiful. And the current theory of consciousness right now is that consciousness does not occur in the brain. And I think this was proven a couple of months ago, or we had a step towards it a couple of months ago. I can't remember the study, but um, he talks about it. Federico Fugge talks about this and Rupert Sheldrake. That consciousness is something that comes from outside of our head. And our brain acts like a filter for consciousness.

• 2:34:27Speaker 03

  So that when we do things like psychedelic, it's really muting and turning down that filter.

• 2:34:33Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. They talk about this?

• 2:34:36Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, big time.

• 2:34:38Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:34:39Speaker 03

  I want you to get him on just so I can personally watch the episode.

• 2:34:42Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I'll do everything I can to get him on. That sounds fascinating. You know, on another subject, I mean, on the break, we were talking about some laser with, and I've heard this too.

• 2:34:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:53Shawn Ryan?

  Although, I'll just let you do it, but basically it was lasers with ones and zeros visibly inside of the laser.

• 2:35:01Speaker 03

  So let me just set this up. So if you bought like a DeWalt laser level at Home Depot and it paints that line across the wall. And then you put something in front of the laser to kind of diffuse it. So you take it from being a really thin laser line and then spread that sucker out. So it's like six inches wide, big fat line of laser on the wall. And then you get somebody that's on DMT or psychedelics, any, almost any psychedelic, I think.

• 2:35:31Speaker 03

  When you look at that, you can see, number one, you can see through the wall. You can see through the wall? You can see through the wall. Where the laser is, or just through the wall? Right where the laser is, you can see through the wall. You can even put it on your arm, and the code changes on your arm. If your arm gets in front of where the wall is, the code is completely different. Are you sh- what? I didn't believe this. So this was viral on TikTok. Someone stole the TikTok video and reposted it on their X account. I saw this guy, his name is Danny Gohler. And he's one of my good friends, if you want to have him on.

• 2:36:12Speaker 03

  I'm listening. I'll put you guys in touch. So I see this video, and I'm watching the behavior of the people observing everything to see if they're lying. Because I'm a behavioral expert, I'm looking for deception and lies and all this stuff all the time. They were all truthful. So I called my assistant, I said, "Get this guy wherever he is, fly him to my house, or fly him where we can meet up somewhere." I want to try this out. So we flew to a place, we wound up flying to a place where DMT is not illegal. And shine this thing on the wall, and I've never done DMT before until this day. And oh my God, that's a whole nother three-hour podcast, but... While you are in the DMT state,

• 2:36:58Speaker 03

  you get close to the wall, and you can see code that looks kind of like alien writing, like you'd see, and then some that look like Kanji, Japanese characters.

• 2:37:11Speaker 03

  But the thing is, when you're hallucinating something, like sometimes hallucinations change and warp and modify a little bit. This is permanent, solid.

• 2:37:21Speaker 03

  So like, and if you move your head, the code stays in the same place. And if you move the laser on the wall, like you take the laser level and scoot it up, different code reveals itself as the laser is moving.

• 2:37:35Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:37:35Speaker 03

  Then you get two or three people lined up and they all see the same thing. And I have looked into this quite a bit because I thought this, there's no way this could be true. But the first time I saw it, I wept, I wept. There's a video of me watching it on YouTube. And it was just, you're seeing something, but you're left with no answers. Like, the only thing you have coming out of that is like, what the hell did I just see? You know, it doesn't give you any more knowledge about anything.

• 2:38:06Speaker 03

  But the, the, the big thing is, why are we seeing code? And where is it coming from and what is it made of? But, and why, why does everyone see the same exact characters if they're all looking at the same place?

• 2:38:19Shawn Ryan?

  Man, that is crazy.

• 2:38:20Speaker 03

  It is bizarre. And if you put your arm in front of it, the code completely changes, but only right where your arm is.

• 2:38:26Shawn Ryan?

  Do you make, do you have any theories on this?

• 2:38:28Speaker 03

  None.

• 2:38:29Shawn Ryan?

  Nothing?

• 2:38:29Speaker 03

  Once you see it, like, your, your ability to think that you have shit figured out is gone. It's gone. There is, I have no explanation for what the hell it is.

• 2:38:44Speaker 03

  But it's fascinating.

• 2:38:45Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:38:47Speaker 03

  And I think this is gonna, within our lifetime, if, if Danny keeps going with this research, we're gonna, we're gonna have a big breakthrough in consciousness, understanding of like, what the hell it is. But it's, man, it's beautiful and makes you feel stupid.

• 2:39:04Shawn Ryan?

  Man.

• 2:39:05Speaker 03

  At the same time.

• 2:39:06Shawn Ryan?

  Well, do you, uh, can I mention what you're getting ready to do? Or do you want to just, if you want to, if we're keeping that?

• 2:39:11Speaker 03

  Oh, you can. Yeah, I'm gonna make a video about it. Yeah.

• 2:39:14Shawn Ryan?

  All right. So you're doing the, the intravenous psychedelic experience that I guess, you know, apparently basically almost nobody has done.

• 2:39:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:24Shawn Ryan?

  And, uh, gonna do some super deep work. Man, I would, I would, no bullshit, I would love to get you back here and just talk about what that experience was like, what you learned, what you saw, what you felt.

• 2:39:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:38Shawn Ryan?

  Would you do it again?

• 2:39:40Speaker 03

  If you want to send one of your dudes down there, just to get B-roll for that episode, then we can do it, man.

• 2:39:45Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:39:47Speaker 03

  So it's four to five hours of NN DMT. Uh, and they're essentially following like a kind of a slow drip protocol of how you would get anesthesia in an operating room. So they took these general anesthesia procedures, applied it to DMT to maintain a DMT experience for that long. And then five MEO DMT through a vape during that experience as well. And I don't know how it's gonna be, but I'm gonna be doing that soon.

• 2:40:22Shawn Ryan?

  Man, I mean, you know, we just talked about MKUltra, man. Do you, do you, do you have any fear of any thoughts, anything being injected into your mind, your consciousness when doing an intravenous type experience?

• 2:40:38Speaker 03

  You mean from someone speaking in the room or?

• 2:40:42Shawn Ryan?

  Anybody.

• 2:40:43Speaker 03

  No, I know these people.

• 2:40:46Shawn Ryan?

  You do?

• 2:40:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:40:48Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:40:49Speaker 03

  We've, we've got, we're getting to know each other right now and, um, yeah, that would be horrifying. Cause if, if you're doing DMT, you really gotta trust the other person in the room with you that they know what they're doing.

• 2:41:01Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah. That's why I'm asking.

• 2:41:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41:05Shawn Ryan?

  Cause I've, I've had the same opportunity offered and I just, I was like, I just, I don't, can't do it. I don't, there's no trust.

• 2:41:15Speaker 03

  That anxiety, there's an anxiety spike when you first ingest DMT, however you do it, there's kind of an anxiety spike because you have to like pop out of your body and you have to kind of surrender your life a little bit. It's like dying to the, to the chemical.

• 2:41:29Shawn Ryan?

  Regular DMT is a death experience as well?

• 2:41:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:41:33Shawn Ryan?

  I did not realize that.

• 2:41:35Speaker 03

  It's not like death. I mean, it's like something's taking, like you're living inside of an animal and you get to crawl out of it. It's kind of how it feels to me. But some people, like if you're really, really wrapped in ego and like. You have a lot of fear of doing that stuff, then there'll be an anxiety spike, which is why a lot of people will microdose an MDMA right before a DMT experience to help with that ego and opening your heart a little bit to what's going on. Interesting. I didn't know that either. It's a beautiful thing to mix, especially in a micro form. So you're not like rolling on MDMA. It's micro. Gotcha. Gotcha.

• 2:42:19Speaker 03

  But that experience when you're on NNDMT is kind of like a really, really low-frequency vibration. And the way that I could describe it is if you had low-frequency sound that is shaped in scales, like fish scales, sound that looks and feels like fish scales, just kind of like enveloping your body until the point that you're like exiting. Interesting. Interesting. It is amazing. And Danny, the guy who did the laser experiment, he took me through DMT, my first experience. We did breath work for 15 minutes or so. You held the molecule

• 2:42:58Speaker 03

  over your heart for five, 10, 15 minutes with gratitude and just saying, "Thank you, thank you, thank you," over and over again. And then going into the experience, I started freaking out because, you know, both of us were kind of military rigid and don't want to give up control, really. And I kind of fought it a little bit. And this face pops out of the wall like nine feet tall in a loving way. Because you can see some crazy stuff on DMT, but it's very understanding and loving and pretty cool. And it's telling me to relax. And as she's saying that, Danny says, "You need to listen to her." Wow.

• 2:43:41Speaker 03

  And because he had taken one hit of the DMT as well as I was going in.

• 2:43:49Speaker 03

  Dude, it just makes you ask more questions about reality. Like, where is it that we go? And I've worked with a lot of scientists, a lot of people. We're doing a lot of consciousness research right now. We have a nonprofit called Field Consciousness Laboratory. And I've never met one person who thinks that what happens on DMT is a hallucination. Not one. Which is profound in itself. It's just, I don't think we can understand it yet.

• 2:44:21Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, on the topic of consciousness, I'm curious. What are your thoughts on remote viewing and ESP and all that kind of stuff?

• 2:44:29Speaker 03

  With what we know now about consciousness and what they're starting to prove with Rupert Sheldrake and those other guys. If consciousness is external to the body, your brain is kind of like a consciousness radio receiver that's tuned to a frequency. You ever heard of Sudden Savant Syndrome? This happens when somebody gets in a car accident, bumps their head, and suddenly they speak French. And they've never learned French. Ever. This is well documented. Or somebody gets in a, bumps their head, falls off a bike, and then they're an expert genius at calculus. Or they can suddenly play the violin.

• 2:45:14Speaker 03

  It's called Sudden Savant Syndrome. And so what? There is no possible scientific explanation for it. None whatsoever. So if our brains are little receivers of consciousness, maybe this like a little bump on the head or a little head trauma somehow modifies that dial to where that person just shifted the frequency that they're tuning into or something. And if Sudden Savant Syndrome can start to show us things like that and how people experience that, and you've got this stuff out, you're called the telepathy tapes now, where it's showing us like, we have no idea what's going on. But maybe that's what remote viewing is.

• 2:45:56Speaker 03

  It's like, that person just has a skill to be able to hit that tuner knob the right way, to be able to just tune into another piece of consciousness.

• 2:46:06Speaker 03

  Above a file on a desk in Moscow somewhere.

• 2:46:09Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, you know, it's just talking about consciousness. So I wanted to bring it up, but you'd also you were talking about towards the beginning of the interview, I believe, you know, that words were talking about words, you know, and then how they words can't describe, you know, certain psychedelic experiences, other experiences. And, you know, the first guy that I, I guess, actually, the second guy that I interviewed about it was Joe McMonigal, and he had talked about. I had asked him about, you know, where, how, why do you have this? Why doesn't anybody else have this? He says, I think we all have, you know, the capability to potentially do this.

• 2:46:47Shawn Ryan?

  But it's been lost through, through, through generations of technology and, and, and actually he brought up, the first thing that he brought up was language. And he had mentioned, you know, at the beginning, we would travel in packs and it was grunting and body language, facial expressions, things like that.

• 2:47:10Shawn Ryan?

  Then, then, um, then we developed a language and it's just a very, it's a less efficient way of communicating. We think it's more descriptive. Maybe it is, but, you know, we had lost the ability to immediately communicate without words.

• 2:47:30Shawn Ryan?

  And when you think about it, I mean, it's, it's.

• 2:47:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. So the, if you think of a parasite, like a, an actual parasite, it needs a host to replicate. It invades the host without the host knowing. It uses the host to replicate itself and it changes the host's behavior so that it can replicate itself. And it modifies the host's behavior overall. That's language. Language follows all the criteria of what really defines a parasite. So it's interesting that there's a theory out there of language becoming some kind of alien parasite, but it doesn't have to be alien. The grunt that you were talking about conveyed depth and meaning.

• 2:48:16Speaker 03

  The word is a description. The word points to something. The grunt conveyed something and passed on information and passed on feelings and it, instead of grunt just meaning I'm hungry. The grunt means I'm hungry. I've had a bad day and several other things. I'm tired. And it conveyed information without describing things. So, language was invented initially to just sell chickens and exchange them for rice and stuff like that. And they started this with cuneiform, where they would put little symbols on tiles. And even prostitutes had this little tile that would convey this. And it was like the first printed receipt were these little cuneiform tiles.

• 2:49:01Speaker 03

  So, language was designed for describing and conveying some kind of data, not for really giving deep meaning about a lot of stuff. And that's why it's so challenging to really do that with language. So, this French philosopher, his name was Jean Baudrillard. He wrote a book called Simulacra and Simulation, where he's saying, "For the rest of humanity's history, we will live in a world with more and more information and less and less meaning." Because everything is pointing to something. So, like the Instagram is pointing to something. It's a simulation of something.

• 2:49:43Speaker 03

  Disney World is the ultimate simulation of something that's pointing to another simulation that has no origin. It goes pretty deep, but a lot of what we do in our lives is a simulation of something. We look at Walmart, it's a simulation of a market with like wooden baskets around there. They're simulating an environment that might be familiar to our ancestors. So, a lot of our lives are representations of things instead of the thing itself.

• 2:50:12Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 2:50:13Speaker 03

  We get obsessed with it.

• 2:50:14Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. Well, Chase, fascinating discussion, man. I am really happy we connected.

• 2:50:22Speaker 03

  Me too, man.

• 2:50:23Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 2:50:24Speaker 03

  Thanks for having me on.

• 2:50:25Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you. Cheers.

• 2:50:38Shawn Ryan?

  I'm Sean Ryan, former Navy SEAL, CIA contractor, and host of The Sean Ryan Show. Much of my life has been dedicated to seeking truth and getting answers, no matter how uncomfortable the questions are that we have to ask. But in the age of the PSYOP, that search has never been more difficult. In September of 2022, the US Army's 4th PSYOP Group released a cryptic video on YouTube.

• 2:51:14Speaker 03

  There is another very important phase of warfare. It has as its target, not the body, but the mind of the enemy.

• 2:51:26Shawn Ryan?

  Between clips of troops assembling chess pieces and social unrest. Phrases begin to appear on screen. They ask, "Have you ever wondered who's pulling the strings?" These are the PSYOP War Soldiers. The series you're about to listen to is an attempt to answer that question, and an even bigger one. The global power brokers that conduct psychological operations constantly evolve. Technology like AI has evened the playing field, and now, in the era of social media and the democratization of information, all it takes to conduct a PSYOP is a smartphone.

• 2:52:06Speaker 04

  Like and subscribe.

• 2:52:09Shawn Ryan?

  In each episode, we look at a different method of psychological operations, how they've evolved, and how they are being deployed. There's a quote that is attributed to a scientist named E.O. Wilson that says, "We are drowning in information while starving for wisdom." This is a life raft in that sea of both information and misinformation.

• 2:52:41Shawn Ryan?

  Psy-ops are all around us. They're conducted by corporations, governments, activist groups, intelligence agencies, foreign adversaries, and anyone who knows how to shape perception to get what they want. The series provides an in-depth look at how these psy-ops work from conversations with whistleblowers, experts, historians, tech innovators, and more. We look at world events that are being shaped by highly-constructed psychological operations specialists, and look at the terrifying possibilities of where this could all be headed.

• 2:53:26Shawn Ryan?

  Along the way, you'll learn about everything from Russian troll farms, fake ghosts in the jungles of Vietnam, and mind-control cults, to the CIA's involvement in Hollywood.

• 2:53:37Speaker 05

  Do you have any people paid by the CIA who are working for television networks?

• 2:53:50Shawn Ryan?

  The early history of psy-ops and psychological experiments laid the foundation for what we see today in modern campaigns that seek to divide culture over polarizing issues. We look at where we are and how we got here. But ultimately, this series is a toolkit to help you understand how you're being manipulated and how to spot the signs of a psy-op. Before the Army's viral psy-op recruitment video ends, the words on screen inform viewers that war is evolving and all the world's a stage. This series is a peek behind the curtain.

• 2:54:31Shawn Ryan?

  Welcome to the psy-op. Buy it today at psyopshow.com. No matter where you're watching Sean Ryan's show from, if you get anything out of this, please like, comment, subscribe, and most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you're feeling extra generous, please leave us a review on Apple and Spotify Podcasts.