Google's Liz Reid on Who Will Own Search in a World of AI

Not too long ago, search engines were the dominant form of querying the internet. But that's changing since the rise of large language models like ChatGPT, Claude, and Google's Gemini. More and more people are getting their online info through AI, effectively bypassing the search bars of old and creating a tension for large tech companies that offer AI models, but also make money from web traffic and search-related advertising. In this episode, we speak with Elizabeth Reid, VP of search at Google. Liz has been with the company for more than two decades, witnessing multiple tech transformations in that time. So we talk with her about how Google is incorporating Gemini into search via AI overviews, what that means for traffic and ad sales, and the practical experience of search in an age of LLMs and internet slop. Subscribe to the Odd Lots NewsletterJoin the conversation: discord.gg/oddlotsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Joe Weisenthal?

  There are some market stories where you want every detail. Tracy and I have made quite a few podcasts on that basis, but sometimes you've only got 10 minutes and need to know what's moving markets and why. That's the Barclays Brief Podcast. Every week, experts from Barclays Markets and research get you up to speed on what matters and what to watch next. About the time it takes to grab a coffee, so search Barclays Brief wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  This is the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. I'm Carol Muster. Getting hired at SpaceX requires exceptional ability and may include having Elon Musk review a candidate's resume. So writes Bloomberg Business Week's Lauren Grush. She reports that the company culture is defined by Musk and job candidates must understand that a commitment to SpaceX means adhering to this culture and exhibiting loyalty to Elon Musk. To get hired, candidates must demonstrate their achievements from past jobs, and hands-on experience matters more to recruiters than advanced degrees, with the company looking for people with raw innate intelligence. A spokesperson for SpaceX didn't respond to a request for comment on its recruiting

• 1:07Speaker 01

  and hiring practices, but according to recruiters, advisors, and those who've interviewed for jobs there, it's the space exploration dream that draws people to the company, and Musk invokes that dream regularly to remind workers why they're there. Prospective hires are told that the job will require stamina, including in job ads that candidates, quote, "must be willing to work extended hours and weekends as needed." One major perk for all that hard work? Employees' access to equity, either the right to buy shares or payment in the form of restricted stock units that vest over time. That's the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. Get started at chatgpt.com.

• 1:48Speaker 02

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• 2:27Speaker 03

  Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio, news.

• 2:42Joe Weisenthal?

  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. I'm Joe Wasenthal.

• 2:47Tracy Alloway?

  And I'm Tracy Allaway.

• 2:48Joe Weisenthal?

  Tracy, when we talk about AI, we talk a lot about the big labs, the big independent labs, particularly OpenAI and Anthropic. But of course, we know that the legacy tech companies, the so-called hyperscalers, et cetera, they're not just going to give up this groundbreaking technology without a fight.

• 3:06Tracy Alloway?

  No, and we've certainly seen various efforts to, I don't want to say catch up, but like to keep pace, I guess. Yeah.

• 3:13Joe Weisenthal?

  So of the major legacy companies, you know, which I would say are like Microsoft, Amazon, Meta and Google, or sorry, Alphabet. I would say clearly Alphabet is the one that has the model that people are, you know, talk about Gemini, right? And in a way, that's kind of surprising because one common intuition that people have is that companies aren't very good at developing the thing that disrupts their own legacy business, right? This is just a famous sort of B-school thing that people talk about all the time.

• 3:44Tracy Alloway?

  Yes. So the issue, one would think, with AI and Google in particular, is that Google, you know, famous for its search. No one believes me, by the way. The first time I ever used Google in like, I guess it was the either late 1990s or early 2000s. I told my parents to invest in the company and they didn't listen to me.

• 4:01Joe Weisenthal?

  Oh, really?

• 4:02Tracy Alloway?

  Yeah. They don't believe me either, but I swear I did. The first time I used it, I was like, oh, my God, this is so much better.

• 4:08Joe Weisenthal?

  So I feel so dumb because I remember the Google IPO very well. And I thought I was very smart because it was like I was 20, I think it was 2004. I was very, I thought I was very smart back in those days. I don't think, now, now that I'm older, I realize I don't know anything. But I thought I was very smart. I was like, oh, these sheep, they're just buying, it's overvalued. Should I short this IPO? It's like a bubble, et cetera. Thank God I didn't like put out some short trade and go bankrupt. But like I, it never occurred to me to go long because I don't, and I think it's the journalist temperament or like very cynical and cynical.

• 4:38Tracy Alloway?

  That's right. You have to be an optimist to be an investor.

• 4:40Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah, you have to be an optimist. You have to be willing to be part of the crowd. You have to ride the wave. We don't really like riding waves, et cetera. And so like, I was like, oh, should I short this? Anyway, I should have bought it.

• 4:51Tracy Alloway?

  Okay.

• 4:51Joe Weisenthal?

  I should have held it.

• 4:52Tracy Alloway?

  All right.

• 4:53Joe Weisenthal?

  You know what? I should have bought it, even though we don't trade like, should have bought it in like 2023, when everyone was saying that ChatGPT was gonna eat its lunch. Should have bought it a year later, when people were saying, oh, Gemini is too woke, etc. All these turns, there are opportunities. But anyway, I'm happy to just talk about it.

• 5:11Tracy Alloway?

  All right, now that we've gone on a very long segue, what we are getting at. It's an important segue. What we are getting at is that in theory, AI would seem to pose a threat to Google's core business, which is search. So if you type in a query in Google now, I think I have one open from the last time we recorded a podcast. I don't know why I was looking this up. It says, can you see tankers physically from the Strait of Malacca?

• 5:33Joe Weisenthal?

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:33Tracy Alloway?

  In the Strait of Malacca from Singapore. So if you type that into Google.

• 5:36Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah.

• 5:37Tracy Alloway?

  It used to be you would just get a bunch of search results.

• 5:40Joe Weisenthal?

  That's right.

• 5:41Tracy Alloway?

  Now you get an AI overview, which basically pulls in a bunch of results from other pages and gives you a sort of summary. And so the question is, if people are just gonna be looking at these summaries, instead of actually going to the pages that Google Search used to turn out as links at the top of the page, what does that mean for traffic via Google Search?

• 6:01Joe Weisenthal?

  Well, and then the other big element here, which is that, you know, people will stop like clicking as much on links or even seeing links. What does that mean for the advertising business?

• 6:11Tracy Alloway?

  Yes, exactly.

• 6:11Joe Weisenthal?

  The expectation is that you like see the answer right there, etc. And one of the questions we have about OpenAI in particular is, are they ever gonna be able to launch? I could advertise in a big business. Can these two things combine, etc? We know that to this day, that Google Search ads are the greatest money printer that's ever been invented, basically, in the history of the world. And so how this is going to interact and how Google is thinking about these questions, as you say, it's a little unclear to me because, yeah, it's nice. I could just put on the same question. Can you see tankers in the Strait of Malacca? I don't know if these are right. I don't know if the AI, I don't know if the AI overview is right, but it's there.

• 6:49Tracy Alloway?

  It's there. So lots of interesting questions here. Also, AI slop, right?

• 6:53Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah.

• 6:54Tracy Alloway?

  Are the search results that are being turned up actually of any certain quality, right?

• 6:59Joe Weisenthal?

  It's a great point. And one of the reasons perhaps that a lot of people, and I would include myself in this. Use AI more and more is because I have like, you know, I have some issues, let's say with search. So anyway.

• 7:13Tracy Alloway?

  I'm going to clip that. I have some issues, Joe Weisenthal.

• 7:16Joe Weisenthal?

  Anyway, we really do have the perfect guest to talk about this. Someone who is like really literally right in the middle of all of this and can answer all of our questions. We're going to be speaking with Liz Reid. She is the VP of Search at Google and she has been at the company for over 20 years, has been in the current role, has been on the search team for a few years. And so we're going to hopefully get answers to all these questions. So Liz, thank you so much for coming on the Odd Lots Podcast.

• 7:43Speaker 05

  Thank you for having me. Delighted to be here today.

• 7:46Joe Weisenthal?

  Absolutely. Why don't you just start by telling us like, what's your role at Google? What does it mean? Okay, you're the VP of Search at a company that people know for being a search engine company. But what is your, what does your title actually entail?

• 7:59Speaker 05

  I lead the search team that you can think of as covering the product, the engineering, our user designers and data science, sort of the team that fundamentally builds the search product that you use.

• 8:10Tracy Alloway?

  So how much of your day to day is taken up thinking about AI nowadays versus like, let's say, two years ago?

• 8:17Speaker 05

  Well, two years ago, I would say it was also still a fairly large amount. I think AI is a deeply transformative technology in what it opens up. And I think AI has been in search for many years in different forms. It's much more in the forefront these days with things like AI overviews and AI mode. But if you go back several years, it was how we transformed a bunch of ranking with efforts like BERT and MUM that were built on some of the early transformer breakthroughs. But at the end of the day, you know, and if you go back, once upon a time, AI didn't just refer to generative AI, it referred to general machine learning and other things like that. And, you know, in the early 2000s, Google had spell correction. Which felt sort of revolutionary at the time that used AI.

• 9:00Tracy Alloway?

  Right. No one calls spell check AI anymore. Yeah.

• 9:04Speaker 05

  Nobody calls spell check AI, but like it was at the time, right? It just shows you how far the world has come. But the opportunity to really transform search and realize Google's mission at a new level is really exciting and an amazing opportunity and very humbling to do this for a product that so many people use.

• 9:21Joe Weisenthal?

  By the way, you mentioned BERT, my little software hobby project of training a machine learning model to tell whether something is more indicative, the written or spoken word, is based on BERT. So, thank you for developing that and thank you for open sourcing it so that someone like myself can train it. But talk to us about just how you're thinking about this core tension that for years, Google had a business of you go to a, you put in a term in a search bar and then people click out and some people and some of the clicks were to organic results and some of the clicks were to paid results. And now people are, we're entering this world in which people expect to get whatever they want right there from the query without that impulse for a click.

• 10:06Joe Weisenthal?

  And you have a business that is still dominated by that click out one way or another. So, just like, you know, and I want to drive into the details, but big picture, is that a real tension?

• 10:18Speaker 05

  I think what's interesting about it is that the space of search is very big and what people are trying to do is very big. And sometimes people really want quick answers and they want it right in front of them. And sometimes they want to go deep or they want to hear from particular individuals, right? I think there's this sort of myth that people want AI or the web that I actually think what we see is that people want AI and the web together. Okay. There are certainly questions for which like you just want the quick answer and then you're done. And that's been true in many ways for years, right? We'll talk about this with AI, but I bet most of the time you look up the weather, you just want to know what the temperature is and you're done, right? And you don't once, but then you're going to go on a trip and you're going to go and actually dig in more because you're going surfing on other pieces.

• 11:02Speaker 05

  I think if you think about this, people like, oh, I have an answer I don't, so why would I do an ad? Well, like the answer doesn't buy the pair of shoes. You actually have to. Buy the shoes, right? So you still have to go pick a merchant for that. People care often to hear people's perspectives, right? Like, you'll talk about, okay, well, we want a bunch of answers. And yet, this is like a golden age for podcasts, right? So clearly, people sometimes want to spend a couple of seconds. And other times, they'll spend a whole hour listening to things. And so one of the things we see with the shift with AI overviews is that you get more of this pronouncement with what's your goal? Okay? If all you were gonna do was go to the webpage, see the fact, and immediately click back, you were gonna spend like a half a second on the page. Okay? You see those things shift.

• 11:47Speaker 05

  But if what you were gonna go and do is read an article for five minutes, you're still interested in reading that article for five minutes, right? AI might help you point to the right page. So we see fewer bounce clicks where our user would sort of go and immediately come back as they weren't happy. You see people go, though, and they want to hear from other people. They want to hear their expertise, their perspective, their unique take. I take fashion as an interesting example sometimes. If you hate fashion, then like you love using chatbots to replace the need, right? Like, you didn't really want to spend any time, that's fine. But if you were someone who was spending a lot of time reading influencers and what their interest in the fashion, you have not decided to replace that with a chatbot, right?

• 12:29Speaker 05

  You're still gonna want to hear from those fashion tastemakers. And so there's an opportunity with AI overviews to help you get started and then make it easy for you to dig in and connect. And I think people's interest in connecting with other people is just as strong these days in many ways.

• 12:47Tracy Alloway?

  So just at a simplistic level, can you tell me, like, how does Google determine whether it shows the AI overview or not? So if I type in "corgi" into Google search, I'm biased because I have two corgis, but it just gives me a bunch of links to like the American Kennel Club and like the corgi subreddit and things like that. If I type in "what is a corgi?", question mark, it gives me the AI overview. Is it just everything with a question mark returns an AI result? Or how are you actually deciding what to present to users?

• 13:18Speaker 05

  No, what we try and an important premise of this is that we shouldn't give you AI for the sake of giving AI, right? The point is for it when we think it adds value to people. And so it's not really associated with question marks. Question marks are often when people are looking for more of a description or they have a harder question, which maybe a single webpage doesn't answer or whatever else. But what we're really using is looking at signals from users to say, does the AI overview provide additional value or not? And so most people, I don't like, I haven't studied Corgi query in detail, but for a query like that, probably what we're seeing is that most people aren't just trying to figure out what is a Corgi. Maybe they want to see pictures about it. They want to click on knowing more about the dog breed because they're trying to engage

• 14:03Speaker 05

  in it. And so we basically learn over time based on user signals, the same way we learn about like, when should you show the weather one box? And when should you show local results? And when should you use sports? That the AI overview provides additional value? Great, we show it. It doesn't? Then we don't want to get out of the way, right? You don't want your search for Wikipedia, you go and you type in Wikipedia, which a lot of people do. They want to get to Wikipedia. They don't want to go and say, let's give me the history of Wikipedia. That's not why they search for that, right? If they search for odd lots, right? They probably want to quickly get to your podcast. And so we have a variety of signals that try and help us understand when is it adding value or not? And we get smarter over time as people both change how they ask questions, as the models

• 14:48Speaker 05

  get smarter, right? Like, we don't want to put in an AI overview if we think it's not going to be high quality. So as the models have gotten more powerful, we can cover more cases and just continue to develop, really with the focus being what is the best response to give a user for the question they've asked.

• 15:18Tracy Alloway?

  There are some market stories where you want every detail. Joe and I have made quite a few podcasts on that basis. But sometimes you've only got 10 minutes and just want to know what's moving markets fast. That's the Barclays Brief Podcast. Every week, experts from Barclays Markets and Research get you up to speed on what's happening and what to watch next. Concise, focused, and brief. Search Barclays Brief wherever you get your podcasts.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  This is the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. I'm Carol Muster. Getting hired at SpaceX requires exceptional ability and may include having Elon Musk review a candidate's resume. So writes Bloomberg Business Week's Lauren Grush. She reports that the company culture is defined by Musk and job candidates must understand that a commitment to SpaceX means adhering to this culture and exhibiting loyalty to Elon Musk. To get hired, candidates must demonstrate their achievements from past jobs and hands-on experience matters more to recruiters than advanced degrees, with the company looking for people with raw, innate intelligence. A spokesperson for SpaceX didn't respond to a request for comment on its recruiting

• 16:27Speaker 01

  and hiring practices, but according to recruiters, advisors, and those who've interviewed for jobs there, it's the space exploration dream that draws people to the company, and Musk invokes that dream regularly to remind workers why they're there. Prospective hires are told that the job will require stamina, including in job ads that candidates, quote, "must be willing to work extended hours and weekends as needed." One major perk for all that hard work? Employees' access to equity, either the right to buy shares or payment in the form of restricted stock units that vest over time. That's the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. Get started at ChatGPT.com.

• 17:08Joe Weisenthal?

  I have a question about what you see among user behavior. And my question is, do you see the same user or a cohort of people who use both google.com and gemini.google.com? And do you see distinct patterns of queries from the same user, but different types of searches? Or do people just sort of throw the question mostly in the Google search box and start from there? Or do you see people who just use Gemini and do everything there? Like, what do you see in terms of emergent patterns about how an individual chooses which of the sites to enter into first and how they do different queries in each one?

• 17:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, so maybe just, so we're all talking about the same thing. There's sort of your main search page. There's AI mode, that's part of search. And then there's the Gemini app, right, across. And I would say, like, there's a lot of users, so their behavior varies across all of them. But there are some patterns, okay? There's plenty of people who co-use across them. There's plenty of people that are actually using several AI products right now, just in general, right? Not even just within Google. Across Gemini and search, the more informational ones, if it's an informational query, then the probability that they're using search or AI mode is going to be higher. If it's a creative query, it's a product, like a more of a productivity question, you

• 18:31Speaker 05

  know, I want to like, please rewrite this to make it sound more formal, right? Those type questions are going to be more Gemini oriented. Between AI mode and search, the main search page, some people use AI mode mostly via AI overviews. They start in AI overviews and they transition. For those who go direct to AI mode, they tend to do that for queries that they consider sort of more complex, longer questions, questions where they expect that they're going to do more follow-ups versus if you're doing a very browsy query, you might choose to prefer all of the search. If you know that like, your goal is to just get to a particular webpage, you're more likely to start with the search result page. But, you know, there's obviously overlap in the use cases.

• 19:16Speaker 05

  But across search and AI mode tends to be sort of more longer, complex, more conversational queries versus more traditional queries. And between Gemini and search, there's more of a productivity and creativity versus information slant on them.

• 19:30Tracy Alloway?

  So since we're talking about user behavior, one of the things that seems to be happening now is people will use an LLM, doesn't matter which one, they'll ask a question and then they will go and fact check the answer that they get on Google. And I'm really curious if that's something that you're aware of as a sort of user behavior? And if the idea is that maybe Google becomes, maybe not an AI overviewer per se, but maybe the sort of fact checker of last resort for other LLMs?

• 20:02Speaker 05

  I think we're definitely aware that people use Google as a fact checker for some of their LLM use case. I think people have used Google as a place to fact check information pre-LLMs for a number of things. A friend tells them something, you know, and it sort of come. But I, I think people use search for a lot more than just fact checking, right? Or even just looking up facts. They want to go browse what they're going to go buy. They want to go check up the sports score of the latest team. And we do see with AI overviews that with the presence of AI overviews, people are asking more longer questions. They're asking more conversational questions. And so some of these questions they started bringing to an LLM as we brought AI overviews in, they took on those same types of questions and have brought them to, to search.

• 20:48Joe Weisenthal?

  One of the complaints about search, and I would say I've complained about this or complained about, is how many of the results in the SERP are like very, almost like two timely. Let's say someone enters the news, there's a headline about so and so. I'm like, I'm really curious about this person. And so I like searched their name and I get like 10 results or however many results, all from the last day since they made the news. And it actually is difficult for me to find information that didn't have the context of the news. So it was like unbiased in some way. Is that recognized as an issue? Cause I certainly feel it as a user, but I'm curious from your perspective at Google,

• 21:31Joe Weisenthal?

  whether this is something that you think about as a way in which search becomes less than ideal?

• 21:37Speaker 05

  I think. One of the things that's generally very challenging about search is that people enter the same query with a like that's often very short.

• 21:48Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah.

• 21:48Speaker 05

  With a lot of different intents in mind, right? And so in a bunch of the examples where you have, probably our data says that most people just want to see the recent articles and those are the ones that get all of the clicks, but you didn't, right? And so how do we figure out across all of the different intents and match them across? And so I think there's this question about both, how do you get the different facets of a question? How can you personalize the results more effectively for people? I do see more, this is anecdotal as opposed to complete data, but to your example, people using AI mode and AI overviews for some of the people queries to like understand more about the person.

• 22:29Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah.

• 22:29Speaker 05

  Independent of the rest of the news articles, because it, you know, if you don't know who, most of the people searching for it know who the person is, but some of the people searching for it don't. And so you, you can see behavior like that. But I do think one of the interesting things about the evolution of AI is that, that people stop talking just in keywordese as much and they start expressing more of, of what they want. And then that becomes much easier for us to give an answer, right? So if you say, tell me about someone versus like what's new with someone, that's actually much easier for us to figure out how to give better results than if all we just say is someone, right? We used to talk about the, an example query in different ways is falafel. What do you want to know with falafel? Some people don't know what falafel is, they want a definition.

• 23:14Speaker 05

  Some people want recipes. Some people want to find where to eat. Some people want nutritional information. They all just use the word falafel. And that's just harder to figure out how across all of them we do that. We also see that with tensions on things like, well, do you want video results or do you want more text based results? People are very opinionated about what the right answer is, but they are not very opinionated in the same direction. And so we try and meet, you know, multiple billions of people's needs at once.

• 23:42Joe Weisenthal?

  Just to be clear, the falafel example is great. Would you say that today you see a greater diversity of falafel related queries, whereas maybe like five or 10 years ago, you just get falafel? And now people know that they could type in, where is, where does falafel come from? What is a falafel, falafel recipe, et cetera? Have people gotten more sophisticated over time in their query specifications about falafel?

• 24:09Speaker 05

  I don't know falafel very specifically, but in general, but in general, yes. Okay. Okay. We have seen with AI overviews meaningfully longer queries. We see more natural language queries. But it's also not even something as basic of that. It can also be like you were searching for restaurants. We used to laugh about the like before I worked on search. I worked on maps and local some of the intersection with search. And people would just be like restaurants in New York. And you're like, what do you want me to do with that query? Right? Okay. The best restaurants in New York are going to take three months and 99.9% of the population can't afford to go to them. Okay. But like, are you picking 10 random ones, et cetera? But like, part of why people will do that is they had a much more complex.

• 24:51Speaker 05

  I want a restaurant in this location for five people. It can't be too pricey. I have a vegan member. I also have like, I have kids. That was the question they had in their mind. And in the old word of keyword ease, none of that information would be kind of spread throughout the web. And so you wouldn't feel confident you could just put in the question. Yep. And now with like AI reviews and AI mode, you can start to actually, and you see people do this. They tell you the real problem. Right? They don't take their need and translate it to what the computer understands. They try to give the computer their actual need and expect us to do the translation. And I think that's really exciting to see because one, we can be more helpful, but also like, those are real problems people had.

• 25:33Speaker 05

  If you go back to the mission, it was organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful, like that useful part, right? It's not just that it's organized. Is it useful to you? And I think one of the most exciting things about AI, the transformation going on right now, is that you can actually make information much more useful to people. And that really opens up. That makes it such that people just ask more questions because we can actually do a better job meeting their needs.

• 25:57Tracy Alloway?

  Does that come with any like complications in terms of privacy or competition for Google? If people aren't using keywords as much anymore, if they're doing basically like query brain dumps into the prompt and saying, you know, I am so and so, I have a kid, I live here, I want to do the following things, this is my issue. Does that, is that like an added layer of complexity that you have to deal with as like a large search company?

• 26:25Speaker 05

  I mean, I think people, from a privacy perspective, we give people sort of a range of different things. They can be sort of an incognito, they can be signed out, they can be signed in across. So I, and I think Google has a long tradition of really treating people's data with a great deal of care and having cutting-edge security and privacy by design. So I think people are seeing the value and they have continued their trust in Google. I think it means it's a harder job on quality, right? You have to take this question, there's many parts, and you have to figure out how you break it apart. And you have to do work to think about things like latency, because you can't just, you know, if everyone uses the same keyword and it's not personalized, then you can cache it all. If all of a sudden

• 27:10Speaker 05

  the queries get much more diverse, it has consequences there. But I think we just see that it's very empowering people, right? That it takes some of the work out of searching. I think sometimes people think, oh, a few years ago, they said like, oh, what more can you do with Google Search? But like, if you actually ask them, okay, when was the last time you spent 20 minutes searching when you would have preferred to spend two? It's actually not that hard for me. Oh, the last time I was trying to like, go find a service provider. The last time I was trying to go like, do these bigger tasks in life. And so it's been kind of exciting to just make people's lives easier by helping them address their real need.

• 27:48Joe Weisenthal?

  I have so many different theoretical questions I could ask. Here's one, actually, you know what? This is something that was inspired by our producer Dash, a conversation that I had with him 10 minutes ago prior to this, and related to something else. I imagine in your career at Google, spanning over two decades at this point, you've been involved in quite a bit of recruiting, and recruiting software engineers in particular. And I imagine that's a particularly important aspect in some way or another for the VP of Search. Given what we've seen with AI coding and so forth.

• 28:22Joe Weisenthal?

  When you're doing one of these lead code, software developer interviews, et cetera, is it different today than five years ago? Do you have to think really differently about the battery of technical questions that you would propose to a software engineer today, given the restructuring of the nature of the job in a world of AI-generated code?

• 28:44Speaker 05

  I think the process is definitely evolving. I wouldn't say that we have perfected the science yet.

• 28:48Joe Weisenthal?

  Okay.

• 28:49Speaker 05

  But there's two angles in which you're thinking about it, right? One is, you don't want to ask questions for which they just go and type in the answer in the chatbot and recite it back to you. Okay, so you need to make sure, to the extent that your goal is to understand, are they critically thinking? Are they able to think through a problem and do that? You want to make sure that that's actually what you're assessing, right? And so, is it in person? How are you doing that on some basic way? But there's the other thing that I think, the tools are powerful. You can use them in ways that make you more effective and you can use them in ways that make you less productive. How do you think, as the fluency is changing with AI, the way a software engineer might approach a problem now is different than they might have approached the problem five years ago without some of these tools?

• 29:32Speaker 05

  And so, I think we're all learning how to change, asking that question, right? Are you building up that expertise? Are you building up that fluency? And the fluency isn't fixed. What was possible with the tools six months ago, let alone two years ago, is different than what's possible now. And in six months, it will be different. So you have to start thinking about how part of your interview is thinking about sort of fluency with the use of tools in the same way that like when IDEs became important or when people stopped using assembly language and they started doing Java, right? You had to sort of evolve the interviews. It's just that it's happening very fast.

• 30:10Joe Weisenthal?

  Okay.

• 30:10Speaker 05

  Right? And so, we all have to be on our toes, but exciting. Like, you play with this tool and it doesn't work for something and then it's not like play with it two years later. It's like play with it three months later. Maybe the tool will now work for these things.

• 30:22Tracy Alloway?

  Okay, well, speaking of tools, I mean, one of the things, and Joe, I think you've said this, we've been playing around with Claude Code, this idea that actually, when you start vibe coding everything and telling your agent to do everything, it feels like you don't even necessarily need like a computer, much less a search engine, presumably. So I'm just curious, if you gaze five or 10 years into the future... What do you think the default entry point for interacting with the web is actually going to be? Is it going to be a search engine like Google? Is it going to be a specific LLM? Is it going to be my personal agent that I've vibe coded for all of my preferences?

• 31:00Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah, just can I just add on to this question? This is something I think about. Like, if I want to send an email to Tracy today, then what I have to do, like, I find the tab in my browser, I scroll over there, okay, that's my Gmail tab, et cetera, whatever. I would like to just be in my terminal. It'd be so much easier to say, here, send an email to Tracy saying this. There's all these steps that I currently do because of the nature of graphical user interfaces that now that I've gotten in like Claude coding or whatever, feel a little clunky. It feels a little yesterday. And so, yeah, I'm extremely curious about will the web with the series of boxes that we drag and drop, et cetera? Is that the future? Or will it just be someone talking in English to their computer?

• 31:42Speaker 05

  I don't think, like, 10 years is a long time right now in where the tech is.

• 31:47Tracy Alloway?

  That's fair.

• 31:47Speaker 05

  As we can go.

• 31:48Tracy Alloway?

  In one year.

• 31:48Joe Weisenthal?

  Three months from now. Will we still have browsers in three months from now?

• 31:52Speaker 05

  People are like, okay, we believe in 10 years, we'll achieve AGI. Will anyone be doing anything the same? Okay, so with that aside, I think there are some things I I believe in and some things I think we don't know. I think you already see if you go back 10, 20 years ago, that the way you interact with the tech has evolved a bunch, right? It used to be it was just the laptop. Well, now it's the phone. Well, now it's also the watch. Okay, in some cases, it's the glasses. This sense that it should feel like the information is sort of at your fingertips in whatever medium is useful, right? And but I don't know that this becomes a, we haven't so far replaced all of the

• 32:32Speaker 05

  old ones, right? Like, you use the phone a lot more, but my guess is you're not doing all your Claude code work on your phone and you're doing some of it on the desktop.

• 32:41Joe Weisenthal?

  That's true.

• 32:42Speaker 05

  Right? The introduction of the watch has supplemented, but it hasn't eliminated the desktop, right? So what's been interesting, actually, is that it hasn't gotten in the direction of converging to the answer. It's actually increased the form factors and so that you want to be able to access this information wherever you are in whatever form factor makes sense. And so will it be glasses? Will it be something else? Quite possibly, but let's say, let's even say it's glasses become a big deal. Glasses are very small screens, even there, you're probably not going to do your big productivity thing on desktop. So I think what you'll see is that the access point is not confined to one thing, but that the, the key is to eliminate the friction, right? And the toil. To your point, you had to do six steps. You didn't want to do the

• 33:27Speaker 05

  six steps. Why should you do the six steps? Okay. I think you see that like some things are much easier to do with a chat interface. And then some things, actually a chat interface is a super slow way to go do, right? Like if you have a list and you have to go say, please remove this long title for the 10th item. That's actually much harder to do with chat than like an interface that that does that, right? So I don't think it necessarily converges on a single thing. I do think it should feel much more adaptive to your point about, well, if this is the way you prefer to interact, not just where you are, but how you interact and can you customize and can you create, to what extent do the user interfaces look designed for you versus look designed for general? And can you have influence

• 34:12Speaker 05

  in them? I think you'll see that. I do think we sometimes, like, we're very aware of what doesn't work well. We're not necessarily aware of what does work well. Like, companies spend huge efforts working on how do they do shopping carts really well.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 05

  Okay. This belief that sort of the chatbot will have a more optimized shopping cart for every shopping cart place in the world than the one you go to every day. I don't know. Not clear. Right? For those things. But I do think it should feel much more personal. It should feel much more dynamic. It should feel much more ambient and available to you. And I don't think it will be one size fits all, either per person or per form factor.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  This is the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. I'm Carol Muster. Getting hired at SpaceX requires exceptional ability and may include having Elon Musk review a candidate's resume. So writes Bloomberg Business Week's Lauren Grush. She reports that the company culture is defined by Musk and job candidates must understand that a commitment to SpaceX means adhering to this culture and exhibiting loyalty to Elon Musk. To get hired, candidates must demonstrate their achievements from past jobs and hands-on experience matters more to recruiters than advanced degrees, with the company looking for people with raw innate intelligence. A spokesperson for SpaceX didn't respond to a request for comment on its recruiting

• 35:50Speaker 01

  and hiring practices, but according to recruiters, advisors, and those who've interviewed for jobs there, it's the space exploration dream that draws people to the company, and Musk invokes that dream regularly to remind workers why they're there. Prospective hires are told that the job will require stamina, including in job ads that candidates, quote, "must be willing to work extended hours and weekends as needed." One major perk for all that hard work? Employees' access to equity, either the right to buy shares or payment in the form of restricted stock units that vest over time. That's the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. Get started at ChatGPT.com.

• 36:31Joe Weisenthal?

  I've been reading some articles. There, I think I saw one, there was a big one in The Information recently, it's about one of your competitors, Meta. It's kind of, yeah, it's a competitor. And it was like, everyone's token maxing there, and there's a token leaderboard, and people are competing to show that they're using AI more than others. And from my perspective, that boggles my mind because compute is a cost, and just using compute per se does not strike me as a particularly good way of measuring who is productively contributing to the company. I mean, I could certainly find an easy, quick recursive way to burn tokens.

• 37:06Tracy Alloway?

  And generate a bunch of AI images of corgis.

• 37:09Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah, generate it, and then tell the, tell it, create one that just keeps telling it to improve itself, et cetera. The flip side, which some people say is like, look. It doesn't matter at this point because everyone has to figure out how they're going to use AI productively in their work. So you know what? Don't even worry about metering AI. Tell everyone to pedal to the metal and AI use. And if someone is maxing out on tokens, it means they're experimenting with something and then they'll find something that really is a productivity enhancer. I'm curious if from your perspective, it makes sense to like essentially see token consumption or compute use as a proxy for like someone who's doing their job aggressively. Well.

• 37:51Speaker 05

  I think the thing with all of these proxy metrics is if you use them blindly, you're going to run yourself into trouble. Okay. If you as a leader sort of don't use judgment on them, then you get the example of like, I will just create a job that runs in the background and does dumb things to do the tokens, right? So as a leader, your job is to sort of use good judgment and not just think about the incentives. So if somebody isn't playing around at all with the tools, when we know that they can improve productivity, then we need to figure out like why and how we help support. Like maybe there's some issue with with the part of the system they're working on and we should go fix it. Or maybe we just need to help upskill them or whatever else the case is. I do think there is a level

• 38:34Speaker 05

  of experimentation required, right? So I don't think it works if your answer is like, you need to ensure that all your token use is completely optimized. Like, it's not going to work, right? People have to learn what's possible. They're doing different jobs. The tech is changing. But it can either be like, don't use the tools, or just max your tools blindly. It's a, it's a noisy signal, but it's a signal, right? So go look at it and understand as a place of where to look. Don't use it as a final judgment.

• 39:06Tracy Alloway?

  So speaking of measures and not oversimplifying them, I want to go back to the sort of core tension that we started the conversation out with, which is the AI results versus people actually clicking through to results and generating traffic. And I know you were talking about AI being expansionary or complementary for Google search, but I'm very curious how you actually measure that. And the more granular you can get on this, the better. Like, what are you specifically looking at to say that actually this is something that's good for our business versus something that's detracting from the core?

• 39:44Speaker 05

  So I guess I would say like, Google's guidance in NorthStar has always been like focused on the user. That's our biggest question at the heart is, how do we make a great experience for users? And then, then you want to be thoughtful, obviously, about other consider, okay? You like, if you don't have a healthy ecosystem, you can't build a surf, a service ongoing. So you need to make sure you're nurturing a healthy ecosystem. If you have, make no money, then you can't fund Right. this wonderful service. So you have to be thoughtful about those. Okay. But the place you start with is try and build something amazing for users. One of the things we've seen again and again with, with Google search is if you're doing a really great job, like people will not just do another query, they will come back to you more often.

• 40:29Speaker 05

  Okay, they will take their phone out of their pocket and extra time. Okay, that's a high bar, right? It's one thing to go and say, I've showed you something, can you do one more thing while I'm showing it to you? It's another thing to get you to decide you're going to bother to unlock your phone. You're going to boot up your desktop, you're going to navigate in the browser. And so one of the things we really look for is when we're doing these changes, does it cause people to come to search more often? Not just use search more often, but come more often. We also do various like UX research studies and try and understand what are people happy about or not? What are the things they find are frustrating? Are more users, more users adopting it, not just how much are they using it? So we look at a bunch of different metrics.

• 41:12Speaker 05

  But one of the biggest is really like, do you choose to come and ask Google? Like, do you essentially hire Google more often, right? For things you need. And one of the things that's very surprising to people at times is they think they come somewhere for all the questions they have already today, right? Like, maybe they think they come to Google all the time, or they think they go to Google plus L L Ms, or Google plus L L Ms plus TikTok plus whatever. Okay, they think they ask all the questions they have. But that's not true. You actually make a calculation when questions go through your mind of, is it worth spending any time to figure out the answer to this question? Okay, and if the answer is no, then you just don't ask the question, right? And so when we talk about AI as an expansionary moment,

• 41:56Speaker 05

  what we really mean is there's a whole bunch of questions people have, there's a whole bunch of curiosity that is People are not exploring and they're not exploring because they view it as too difficult or too much time or not sure that it will be worth it. And AI lowers that barrier and it can lower that barrier in ways that are sometimes for US English speaker are surprising, which is like actually in a bunch of countries, there's not all the content in the web in the language you speak. Okay, LLMs can help unlock that content. AI overviews, because it's using an LLM, can be more multilingual than just the web corpus is by default, right? Okay, so suddenly information that wasn't available to you as a Hindi speaker is now available. It can be visual.

• 42:40Speaker 05

  You had a question about this flower, you had a question about that cool purse you saw, like where can you buy it, but you didn't know how to describe it. It's possible. It can also just be like, my kid has a question. Do I say like, I don't know, or do I go ask the question? Right? You see with young kids, they ask questions all the time, right? They go, why, why, why, why, why, why? And like at some point, parents are like, because. Stop bothering me, go ask the LLM. They go, okay. Let me Gemini that for you. But they do that because from a kid's perspective, they assume adults know everything, right? And it is no cost to them, right? They're not worried about their time and other things. As an adult, it's not that you're not curious, you just don't think everything is known and you don't have the time, right?

• 43:24Speaker 05

  And so if you lower that barrier, it allows you to be that kid again that just sort of explores all of these things or gets started on those projects that felt daunting or enables you to save or learn a new skill or whatever else. And that's really exciting.

• 43:39Tracy Alloway?

  But I don't want to dismiss the wonder of being a kid and learning about the world, but I'm going to sound very callous in a second. But how do you make money off of that? Like, how do you make money off of the AI overviews? Is it just customer retention? Is that what we're basically boiling it down to? And then if it is customer retention, then you could have a strong argument for saying that like everything can just go through Gemini instead of Search.

• 44:02Speaker 05

  I think I would say a couple of things. Search only shows ads on a subset of queries, right? You know, like less than a quarter of queries, right? So there's a whole bunch of queries. Pre-AIO reviews, right? That you don't make money on because many of them are not of commercial need, right? And so you asked a question about tankers earlier. Probably pre-AIO, that query wouldn't have shown ads anyway.

• 44:26Joe Weisenthal?

  It doesn't show ads now, by the way. Yeah. I checked this too.

• 44:29Speaker 05

  It doesn't show ads now. It doesn't show ads before. There are no ads in that query, right? Nobody's trying to advertise something on that. Okay. So those queries, AI reviews, like it does disrupt. Right? Then there's a bunch of class of queries where like you're shopping. The presence of an AI review or Gemini answers. It doesn't preclude the need to still buy the item. So there's still this huge opportunity with ads because there's all of this choice that's going. I think you also see that there's an expansion of queries, right? To this point, so you get more queries. And so some of those queries are more commercial. Some of them are not, but some of them are more commercial. And so those become new opportunities for ads. And there can also be things like when the query is underspecified

• 45:15Speaker 05

  or it's a single query, you actually don't know as much. So you can't maybe target the ads as well. If people start expressing more of their need, if it's more of a conversation, they're going more down funnel. You can actually create better ads, right? And so you can think about new opportunities for ads formats, right? Some number of years ago, people would have said like, how can you make money from a fee? Okay, well, Instagram ads are very popular.

• 45:36Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah.

• 45:37Speaker 05

  Right? And so there's new ads formats as you recognize new technology and new opportunities. But the commercial needs are still often there and the desire for user choice is still often there. And so there's still a lot of possibility going forward. And so it's worked out very well right now with us in the balance.

• 45:53Joe Weisenthal?

  So I realized that I am a user of both the Gemini app or gemini.google.com and just google.com. And I have like a sort of real, an intuition of which one I go to for which purpose. So if I want to look up the capital of Moldova, I'm not, I'll just search capital of Moldova, which I just got. Do you know that what it is, Tracy? Sorry, I'm not trying to stump you.

• 46:16Speaker 05

  Uh, no. I feel like you're gonna say it and I won't know.

• 46:19Joe Weisenthal?

  No, it's Kishanow. I'd never heard of it.

• 46:20Speaker 05

  Oh, no, I didn't know.

• 46:21Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah, I didn't know that either. But anyway, but if I, you know, if I want to understand what are some academic papers that have been written about why it is that high frequency trading firms tend to not have outside capital, et cetera, and what was the theory for this? I think at this point I would use Gemini for that and hope to. I'd use Gemini or some other ones, but within the context of this conversation, that's more of a Gemini query for me than a Google one at this point. Will there always be two boxes? Or do you foresee eventually there is just one box? And it will just know this is like, why do we need two boxes?

• 47:02Speaker 05

  I don't know what life will be like in five years.

• 47:05Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah.

• 47:05Speaker 05

  I think it's very, sometimes people want sort of an experience, although the information needs seems this like similar. They actually want different experiences across. Okay. And so if you take a pre-ALM example, people use YouTube for search, some. In the US, they use it some. In India, they use it a huge amount. They bring a bunch of queries that you would bring to Google search in the US. Right? You could say, okay, well, we haven't, why haven't we collapsed YouTube and search, search box into one search box? Right? And do that. And it hasn't necessarily been the case. We have the Google app and we have Chrome. They both allow you to search and they both allow you to browse the web. You have a set of people that love the Google app and you have a set of people that love Chrome

• 47:49Speaker 05

  and you have a set of people that use both on a phone. But you can't necessarily convince either population that they want to stop using one app and just switch to the other app. So I don't think the space is so huge and it's changing so quickly right now that to sort of be able to know for sure whether or not you can create one sufficiently dynamic personalized experience that one app, one entry point can truly do it all. I don't think we know yet on that. People come for restaurant searches. They come to Maps and they come to Google search. We have not collapsed the Maps app and the search app.

• 48:28Joe Weisenthal?

  Yep.

• 48:29Speaker 05

  At some point it becomes big. You know, you're putting all this directions code into the Google search app. Is that actually useful? Even if you had a full Maps view? So I think we're just going to have to learn over time about what's good. But the space is really giant and they do have different emphasis right now on what they try to excel at. And you want to make sure that in the attempt to bring things together, you don't become only okay at everything. And you want to make sure that you can shine at all the use cases people need. And that may mean two products or that may not. Or it may be a third product, right? Like, I don't know, in five years, there may be a third product that replaces all the products. You have your personal agent. You don't talk to any products. I don't know.

• 49:05Tracy Alloway?

  So I realized we kind of promised to talk about AI slop a little bit in this conversation. So one of the things that's happening with AI is not just that I can ask a bunch of questions I might not otherwise have had time or the inclination to ask, but also AI is being used to generate vast amounts of content that are aimed at potentially answering any silly question I or anyone else on Earth might have. Yeah, just churning it out. And I'm very curious how search is weighing, I guess, the quality of its results in the new slop era of the internet.

• 49:41Speaker 05

  I think there's a tendency at times, sometimes think about AI slop as if it's, before AI slop, there was slop.

• 49:48Joe Weisenthal?

  Yes.

• 49:48Speaker 05

  Right?

• 49:49Tracy Alloway?

  Human generated slop.

• 49:50Speaker 05

  There, there was human generated slop. Now there's AI generated slop. So there has always been slop on the web. And so what doesn't really matter at some level is how much slop is on the web, so much as is there great content on the web and can you surface it? Right? And this is Google's bread and butter in ranking is and has a long history of looking for spam and trying to drop it and make sure it doesn't show. And like we crawl many, many more pages than we even put in our index. There's pages we put in the index that we never surface, right? So that we can keep that rate of spam and slop at a very low rate.

• 50:31Speaker 05

  And it is a constant effort, right? Like it's not a problem you solve because some of the people generating the spam, right? There's a lot of financial incentives associated with it. But that is what like we, what people have come to trust Google is that it will show great information. And it's a thing that we will continue to put a huge amount of effort in. And so that's the way I would think about it. It's not like how much AI slop or non AI or human generated slop or whatever automated slop, pre-AI, post-human generated there is, but making sure that the information you do see is trusted.

• 51:06Joe Weisenthal?

  Liz Reid, thank you so much for coming on Oddloss. That was a fascinating conversation. I have a billion more questions, but we'll, we'll have you on in three months when the entire world has changed and we'll get an update from you.

• 51:20Speaker 05

  Thank you very much. It was a pleasure to be on with you.

• 51:35Joe Weisenthal?

  I like that point about human generated slop. Do you remember?

• 51:38Tracy Alloway?

  Yeah, but the difference is the volume.

• 51:40Joe Weisenthal?

  No, I know, I know.

• 51:41Tracy Alloway?

  But.

• 51:41Joe Weisenthal?

  But like, do you remember Jason Calacanis's startup Mahalo?

• 51:45Tracy Alloway?

  No.

• 51:46Joe Weisenthal?

  So Jason Calacanis, who's been on the podcast before, he had this startup for a while. It was like the biggest piece of garbage in the world. It was called, no, for real. People need to go like, it was called Mahalo and the idea was like, they were just gonna have, hire a lot of people to like, write articles that were not very good to like, appear in Google.

• 52:03Tracy Alloway?

  Oh, I see.

• 52:04Joe Weisenthal?

  And like.

• 52:05Tracy Alloway?

  To swamp the search.

• 52:06Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah, there was a famous one that my old colleague and I think a business insider, Nick Carlson, discovered. And it was like, if you search like, how to play the xylophone, there was a Mahalo article for that. And it was, I swear to God, okay, it was, step one, decide if you want to play a xylophone.

• 52:24Tracy Alloway?

  Well, that's an important step.

• 52:26Joe Weisenthal?

  Step two, get a xylophone. Step three, learn to read sheet music. Step four, practice reading sheet music and play this. So like, this was actually like, this, I'm just remembering, like, it is, people have been trying to like, stuff complete garbage into the search results for a very long time. And I, I always get a chuckle thinking about that example, and you should go look for it. And so I'm glad that Liz brought that.

• 52:52Tracy Alloway?

  I'm very distracted.

• 52:55Joe Weisenthal?

  It was so bad.

• 52:57Tracy Alloway?

  Wait, we're just gonna like, laugh about this article for?

• 53:00Joe Weisenthal?

  Look at this. Just search it. Mahalo, how to play the xylophone. Yeah, Nick.

• 53:05Tracy Alloway?

  I see something from mahalo.com on YouTube. That can't be it.

• 53:09Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah, yeah. Just search. So yeah, business insider, February 20 line, hilariously useless Mahalo to kind of playing the xylophone.

• 53:16Tracy Alloway?

  Did you write that?

• 53:17Joe Weisenthal?

  No, Nick Carlson wrote it. He wrote it up. Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, now it's behind the paywall and itself is covered in sloppy ads. So I guess. But anyway.

• 53:28Joe Weisenthal?

  Sorry.

• 53:29Tracy Alloway?

  Decide whether you want to buy a used or new xylophone. Metal xylophones are less expensive than wooden ones.

• 53:35Joe Weisenthal?

  Please.

• 53:36Tracy Alloway?

  But that's useful. That's a useful tip that I did.

• 53:38Joe Weisenthal?

  And when you see that, it's like, please, AI, like, save us from this human-generated garbage. They were trying to clog search results before.

• 53:46Tracy Alloway?

  All right, on a serious note.

• 53:47Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah.

• 53:48Tracy Alloway?

  I did think the point about not customer retention, but like, expanding the volume of like, user queries on the platform made a lot of sense.

• 53:57Joe Weisenthal?

  Totally.

• 53:58Tracy Alloway?

  Which I hadn't like, really considered that much before. So even if you do get a bunch of no-click users.

• 54:04Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah.

• 54:04Tracy Alloway?

  They are more inclined to come back to the platform in the future, and maybe some of that eventually lands in clicks.

• 54:11Joe Weisenthal?

  The other thing I hadn't thought of, and I thought it was a great point, which is that there are multiple, Google currently runs multiple search boxes. There's the YouTube. Are you looking at the Mahalo article and cracking up right now?

• 54:22Tracy Alloway?

  I'm sorry, I am. Step four is experiment with the, with different mallets.

• 54:27Joe Weisenthal?

  It's so good.

• 54:30Tracy Alloway?

  I just really want to play the xylophone.

• 54:32Joe Weisenthal?

  It's so good. It's so, it's so good.

• 54:36Tracy Alloway?

  Step five is practice regularly.

• 54:38Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah. It's cra- like, I think AI is much better. Like, if I, you know, it's so good, isn't it? It's like the biggest steaming pile of garbage you've ever seen on the internet. Fifteen years or ten years before anyone had ever.

• 54:52Tracy Alloway?

  Can we actually, can we have Cali Canis back on the podcast just to talk about this?

• 54:56Joe Weisenthal?

  We should have Jason back on the podcast, just to like, grill him about what exactly he was thinking and his sins against the internet for having put this on there.

• 55:05Tracy Alloway?

  Well, he was an early adopter of non-AI slob.

• 55:09Joe Weisenthal?

  But anyway, that point about there are multiple search boxes already, right? There's the YouTube search box. You're still laughing?

• 55:16Tracy Alloway?

  I'm sorry, I was trying to make eye contact with you and not look at my computer.

• 55:19Joe Weisenthal?

  That's so ridiculous. Should we just, should we just?

• 55:22Tracy Alloway?

  Yeah, okay. All right. Yes. Shall we leave it there?

• 55:26Joe Weisenthal?

  Let's leave it there.

• 55:27Tracy Alloway?

  This has been another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. I'm Tracy Alockway. You can follow me at Tracy Alockway.

• 55:32Joe Weisenthal?

  And I'm Joe Wasenthal. You can follow me at TheStalwart. Follow our producers, Carmen Rodriguez at Carmen Armin, Dashell Bennett at Dashbot, and Cale Brooks at CaleBrooks. And for more Odd Lots content, go to Bloomberg.com/oddlots. We have a daily newsletter and all of our episodes. And you can chat about all of these topics 24/7 in our Discord, discord.gg/oddlots.

• 55:53Tracy Alloway?

  And if you enjoy Odd Lots, if you like it when we talk about AI and human-generated slop, then please leave us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. And remember, if you are a Bloomberg subscriber, you can listen to all of our episodes absolutely ad-free. All you need to do is find the Bloomberg channel on Apple Podcasts and follow the instructions there. Thanks for listening.

• 56:44Speaker 06

  Congratulations, you've built a dashboard. But now comes the follow-up question, and the follow-up to the follow-up, and the dashboard for that. Meet Hex. Give everyone the power to ask their own questions, explore data, and build with AI, all in natural language. Because every answer should spark another question, limited only by your curiosity, not your data team's bandwidth. Go deeper than dashboards. Join over 2,000 leading data organizations. Visit hex.ai.

• 57:15Speaker 07

  Empower is all about helping you invest well so you can go out and live a little. And their free Empower Personal Dashboard shows you your full financial life in one place. You'll be able to see your net worth, monitor budgets, analyze your portfolio, set retirement goals, and more. Whether you're saving for something big, want to treat yourself, friends, or family, or meet long-term goals, Empower helps you see where you stand. You've worked hard for your money, and Empower can help you make the most of it. Download the Empower Personal Dashboard or visit empower.com. Not an Empower client paid or sponsored.

• 57:47Speaker 08

  With ChatGPT, you can do more than get answers. You can get things done. Whether you're leading a big project, planning an elaborate trip, or trying to balance work and life, ChatGPT can help. Give it a goal, plus things like files, notes, or project plans, develop a trip itinerary with daily updates, or create a prioritized schedule. So you can spend less energy sorting out the details and more on bringing your biggest ideas to life. Get started at chatgpt.com.