#256 Tucker Carlson - Epstein’s Emails, Political Blackmail and What We Already Knew All Along

Tucker Carlson is a leading voice in American politics, recognized by Time magazine as the “most powerful conservative in America,” and the host of The Tucker Carlson Show, a long-form conversational podcast launched after his departure from Fox News in 2023. He attended St. George’s School in Rhode Island, where he met his future wife, Susan, and developed a passion for debating, before earning a B. A. in history from Trinity College in 1991. After a rejected CIA application, Carlson pursued journalism, starting as a fact-checker for Policy Review and writing for outlets like The Weekly Standard, New York magazine, and Reader’s Digest. His broadcast career spanned CNN (2000–2005) as co-host of The Spin Room and Crossfire, PBS (2004–2005) with Tucker Carlson: Unfiltered, and MSNBC (2005–2008) with Tucker. In 2010, he co-founded The Daily Caller, a political news website, selling his stake in 2020. Carlson joined Fox News in 2009, becoming a contributor, co-hosting Fox & Friends Weekend (2013–2016), and later hosting Tucker Carlson Tonight (2016–2023), the highest-rated program in cable news history. After leaving Fox in 2023, he founded TCN, an online media company dedicated to unfiltered, truth-driven reporting, reshaping the media landscape with record-breaking online interviews featuring figures like Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, and Elon Musk. He is the New York Times bestselling author of Ship of Fools and The Long Slide. Carlson advocates for independent media, free speech, and fearless discourse on critical issues. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://tryarmra.com/srs https://betterhelp.com/srs This episode is sponsored. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/srs and get on your way to being your best self. https://blackbuffalo.com https://shawnlikesgold.com https://ketone.com/srs Visit https://ketone.com/srs for 30% OFF your subscription order. https://ROKA.com – USE CODE SRS https://gemini.com/srs Sign up for the Gemini Credit Card: https://Gemini.com/SRS #GeminiCreditCard #CryptoRewards #Advertisement This video is sponsored by Gemini. All opinions expressed by the content creator are their own and not influenced or endorsed by Gemini. The Bitcoin Credit Card™ is a trademark of Gemini used in connection with the Gemini Credit Card®, which is issued by WebBank. For more information regarding fees, interest, and other cost information, see Rates and Fees: gemini.com/legal/cardholder-agreement Some exclusions apply to instant rewards; these are deposited when the transaction posts. 4% back is available on up to $300 in spend per month for a year (then 1% on all other Gas, EV charging, and transit purchases that month). Spend cycle will refresh on the 1st of each calendar month. See Rewards Program Terms for details: gemini.com/legal/credit-card-rewards-agreement Checking if you’re eligible will not impact your credit score. If you’re eligible and choose to proceed, a hard credit inquiry will be conducted that can impact your credit score. Eligibility does not guarantee approval. The appreciation of cardholder rewards reflects a subset of Gemini Cardholders from 10/08/2021 to 04/06/2025 who held Bitcoin rewards for at least one year. Individual results will vary based on spending, selected crypto, and market performance. Cryptocurrency is highly volatile and may result in gains or losses. This information is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute investment advice. Past performance is not indicative of future results. Consult with your tax or financial professional before investing. Tucker Carlson Links: X - https://x.com/TuckerCarlson IG - https://www.instagram.com/tuckercarlsontcn YT - https://www.youtube.com/@TuckerCarlson TCN - https://tuckercarlson.com The Tucker Carlson Show - https://tuckercarlson.com/podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. Mr. President? My company tore me of the explosion on our rig. On October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up.

• 0:43Speaker 00

  From the director of Birdman and the Revenant.

• 0:46Tucker Carlson?

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You start, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 0:50Speaker 00

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 0:53Tucker Carlson?

  I'm not the first then.

• 0:54Speaker 00

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 1:06Shawn Ryan?

  Tucker Carlson.

• 1:07Tucker Carlson?

  So right, ladies and gentlemen.

• 1:09Shawn Ryan?

  Welcome back to the show.

• 1:10Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you for having me. This place is so unbelievable. It is, it's, you told me about it, but it's way cooler even than you described, so I love this.

• 1:18Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 1:19Tucker Carlson?

  I like a man who builds his own world, because it reflects your value, reflects what you care about.

• 1:24Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you. We put a lot of, a lot of hard soul under this.

• 1:29Tucker Carlson?

  It's very obvious.

• 1:30Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 1:31Tucker Carlson?

  And I just, I think it's great. I like building things, I like people who build things. And I think it's very important to live and work in an environment that, that is beautiful, or at least something that you consider beautiful. I think it's really important. And beauty's totally underrated as an elevator of spirit, as a path to clarity. The whole modern world is so ugly and it's ugly on purpose. You can't think clearly about anything and you come to a place like this and you're like, oh, this is a man who really thinks about things. So.

• 2:00Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you, man. I just, you know, I like, uh, I think work satisfaction is extremely fucking important and not, you know, not just for myself, but, uh, you know, I think I told you, you know, my team is like my family.

• 2:12Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 2:12Shawn Ryan?

  On your podcast. We talked about that again.

• 2:14Tucker Carlson?

  Feel the same way.

• 2:15Shawn Ryan?

  You know, this morning at breakfast and I, I just, I just want everybody to love where the fuck they work.

• 2:21Tucker Carlson?

  Love them.

• 2:21Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and, and, um, and be proud of where they work.

• 2:24Tucker Carlson?

  Like, what are you doing with your life? No, I completely, I completely agree with you. It's expensive to do that. So that's why most people don't.

• 2:31Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:34Shawn Ryan?

  But.

• 2:35Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I love it.

• 2:35Shawn Ryan?

  I gotta spin it on.

• 2:36Tucker Carlson?

  No, I completely agree.

• 2:39Shawn Ryan?

  Fucking gay new watch or something?

• 2:40Tucker Carlson?

  Some dumb vacation. I totally agree. I totally.

• 2:44Shawn Ryan?

  But, um, well, I mean,

• 2:48Shawn Ryan?

  holy shit, dude.

• 2:50Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 2:52Tucker Carlson?

  I know.

• 2:53Shawn Ryan?

  What the fuck is going on in the world?

• 2:55Tucker Carlson?

  Well, there's a spiritual war underway, which I didn't take seriously enough and you can't understand anything that's happening unless you understand that.

• 3:03Shawn Ryan?

  I leaned out. I leaned like, just like we were talking about this. I had to, I had to, I, I just had to lean out. I can't tell what's real anymore. We talked about that on your podcast. It just keeps getting fucking worse and, and, you know, I just, I, I, I'm just looking for,

• 3:23Shawn Ryan?

  you know,

• 3:25Shawn Ryan?

  I'm just looking for something that I can have an impact on and, and, um, it's getting hard to find.

• 3:31Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you, you know, it's, it's hard to gauge the impact of really anything because our timeline is totally distorted and at least I'll speak for myself. I always think that if I say something that's true, it will have an immediate effect. And there is a kind of vanity to that. Like, can't anyone hear what I'm saying? Like, I already showed that's a lie. Like, why aren't you adjusting your behavior? And it's like, well, because I'm not God, actually. I'm not in charge of anything. I'm a podcaster, which is important to remember if you're me, because you, there is so much vanity. People are always like, oh, it's so important what you're doing. And it's like, really? If, if I was doing something useful, I guess we wouldn't be here, would we? And that is so frustrating that I opted, as we had a long conversation, wonderful,

• 4:14Tucker Carlson?

  which I wish was on tape because it was so deep, but I've, I know.

• 4:19Shawn Ryan?

  Don't worry, everything on breakfast is recorded.

• 4:24Tucker Carlson?

  But, um, no, I mean, I know the feeling so well. And you were saying, ah, I can't even deal with this. I don't want to deal with it. And I said, oh, man, I, in June, after we, the United States government, um, bombed the nuclear facilities to, to really no effect, let's be honest. Um, I was so frustrated and disappointed and, and mad that people aren't listening to me.

• 4:47Tucker Carlson?

  Kind of retreated and I live in a place where you can retreat to our fishing camp, which I sincerely love, but really it's, it's signature quality is its remoteness. It's not near anything at all. And we did have Starlink put in a couple of years ago. So you could text from there. So like, why wouldn't you go there on all your off hours with your dogs and just like live alone in the woods? So I literally did that. And then in September, um, you know, Charlie Kirk was my friend, was murdered. And with the encouragement of another friend of mine, I began to realize that what I was doing was totally self indulgent. And that's not, we're not here to enjoy solitude in the woods or enjoy our fishing camp, the

• 5:28Tucker Carlson?

  fruits of our labors, very cheap fishing camp. But still, it's like so close to my heart. And what I really love about this country and my life is being in that, in the woods. So, but that's not why we're here. That's totally self indulgent. Just because my deepest desire is not hookers and blow.

• 5:48Shawn Ryan?

  Anymore?

• 5:50Tucker Carlson?

  No, but I can tell myself, and I have literally said out loud to people around me, like, really? My darkest sin is I like to sit, you know, far away in the woods up near Canada with my dogs and fish and maybe have an occasional cigarette or whatever, but that's as naughty as I get. I've got nothing to apologize for.

• 6:08Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you, why do you think, why do you say that's a big sin? That's your biggest sin?

• 6:12Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I would be, I would be joking. I would say, look, you know, okay, yes, I do like, I mean, we had a, you know, family drama over Starlink. I don't want Starlink. But it was like, well, then no one knows where you are. And I'm like, well, right.

• 6:25Shawn Ryan?

  That's the fucking point.

• 6:27Tucker Carlson?

  Right, well, I did give in, which is a mixed blessing. But anyway, the point is, I would always say, the worst thing I want to do is retreat from the world into the woods and fish or hunt. I mean, those are truly my deepest desires. And I just always would joke and be like, you know, you could, you could have someone else in your family who's like in Vegas getting chlamydia. Or there's me who just wants to go fishing for the week, you know, or whatever. But what I realized was, yes, of course, fishing alone with your dogs is better than getting chlamydia, you know, at the Spearmint Rhino. But both of them are retreating from your duty, especially if you're a middle aged

• 7:09Tucker Carlson?

  man who has, you know, whatever, there's no reason for me not to do my best at this point. There's nothing in my path that prevents me from telling the truth, that I have an obligation to do that. That's why, that's why you're here. There's a mission. There is a mission for every man. And your job is to find out what it is and dutifully do it or attempt to do it. And do you see the fruits? Of course not. You don't. And maybe there aren't any fruits and maybe you're wrong because you don't freaking know. You're just a man, totally on the wrong path sometimes and don't even know it. It's happened to me a million times. But you have to try. And it can't just be, as I always would say to people close to me, it's not all blowjobs and French toast, man. Like, there's a part where you have to work. No, that's the dream, right? Blowjobs and French toast, you know?

• 7:54Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man. I mean, I don't, I don't know, Tucker.

• 8:01Shawn Ryan?

  I have like this huge internal battle going on right now.

• 8:04Tucker Carlson?

  I get it.

• 8:04Shawn Ryan?

  You know, it's, it's, again, we talked, we should probably stop having breakfast from now on and just, you know, do the, do the actual interview here, but I, you know, like, I, I'm not gonna quit, but you know, I, I go back and forth, I mean, there, there's so much, yes, there's a lot of positives and you talk to a lot of cool people and I get, you know, got to know you and, and I'm very thankful for everything, but you know, like, I think about, I got a fucking, a large property about forty, forty-five minutes south of here and um, lots of acreage, middle of nowhere, very, very inexpensive property that I've owned since I moved here.

• 8:43Tucker Carlson?

  Those are the best, inexpensive rural property.

• 8:46Shawn Ryan?

  It's a little bitty fucking hunt cabin that's like,

• 8:52Shawn Ryan?

  it's, you wouldn't want to bring a woman there unless my wife loves it.

• 8:56Tucker Carlson?

  Those are the best guys.

• 8:57Shawn Ryan?

  But um, but we used to go, before all this shit happened, we used to go down there and um, and just, escape, well, like, we wanted to escape all the way back then and we don't have, we don't have time to do that anymore and, and like, I went down there last weekend and um, to actually like, just, get out of here, even though I live in the woods, that's farther in the woods.

• 9:22Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, I know the feeling.

• 9:23Shawn Ryan?

  I just fucking got down there, man, and I was like, it made me sad, like, I was, I was like, Katie and I used to come down here all the time.

• 9:32Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 9:33Shawn Ryan?

  Not talk to anybody, no, no cell reception, no internet, no nothing, like, no jets flying over, no chemtrails, no, no, no noise, nothing, just solitude, nature and a couple of people cooking meth across the street. But um, but um, it ju- it just made me sad, man, and like, I'm like, I, I think about it now and I'm like, those were like, better times.

• 9:59Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:00Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and, and, and now, you know, I've built this business and, and,

• 10:07Shawn Ryan?

  Fame has set in and it's...

• 10:11Shawn Ryan?

  You know, when you're building this shit, you sure as hell don't think you're gonna look back on the times that you were, before you even thought about building it and go, "Those were simpler, better times."

• 10:24Shawn Ryan?

  It makes me fucking sad.

• 10:25Tucker Carlson?

  You can always be sure you look backward and consider time that has passed simpler and better. That's just the nature of life. You will always look back. I look back on the 80s and I'm like, "Damn, I correspond with my girlfriend by letter." You know, how great that was. I just think that's the way people are, but I also, I think of it this way. It's like, and I think that's not just of myself, but of everyone around me. The more blessed you are, the deeper your obligation. That's just true. The point of leadership is to protect the people you lead. I don't believe in a flat society. I'm not a populist in any way. I believe that no structure, beginning with the family, works without leadership.

• 11:07Tucker Carlson?

  And so I think a lot about what is leadership, and leadership is sacrifice. And so the more you've been given, the deeper your responsibility to sacrifice for others. I really believe that. And that's obvious when you're working hard toward a goal. You know, I'm putting everything into what I'm striving to achieve. You know, I'm fighting my way up. The problem for men, and so few men actually achieve this, that it's almost never talked about. Problem for men is getting what you want. The problem is winning. That's what destroys you. The fight doesn't, I mean, you've been in real fights, obviously. With real fights, I happen to know. Not with, just with others, but with yourself. And you prevailed. That's way easier than winning. Winning is what destroys you.

• 11:50Tucker Carlson?

  David was not intimidated when he picked up the stone against Goliath and then ran up and beheaded him. The problem set in when he sees this girl and he's like, "I can bang her. I'm king." He destroys himself. That is, that is the template for the way that men are. And no one tells you that because again, there are so few people who actually get what they want. And there's no support group for people who won. But I know a lot of them. I know that you do too. And a consistent theme in every story is the second I got what I wanted, I could feel myself starting to self-destruct and lose confidence and faith in myself and my mission and all that stuff. And that's one of the gifts that we get, I think, as people, if we pay attention, is the humility that comes from failing. Like, every time I've thought I've won and I'm like, get cynical and decadent

• 12:34Tucker Carlson?

  and like, yeah, I'm in charge now. Then I get fired, humiliated again. And then I look back and I'm like, oh, thank you, God, for humiliating me because it restores a sense of purpose and takes me down from hubris to reality, et cetera, et cetera. But underneath it all is the fact that the more you've been given, the greater your obligation to others. And as I said, as I told you in great detail at breakfast, I'm not going to bore your listeners, but I just went through this. I was like, fuck this, fuck this, like, go wreck your society. I'm out. I'm gonna do my interviews and like, but I'm not getting involved in this process because it's hopelessly broken. And like, I can only be frustrated by it. I can have no material effect and I'm just out. And I've got a million interests.

• 13:19Tucker Carlson?

  I have a huge family who I am very engaged with. And like, I'm just gonna tend to their needs. And I'm, I'm not gonna be a, participate in anything beyond my world. And then a really close and honest friend of mine wrote me this very long letter the day Charlie was killed. And I was like, actually, and it was very nice. It wasn't scolding, but it was actually corrective in that he said, "You are self-indulgent," which I am, I am. Totally self-indulgent. I know that about myself, of course, and it's obvious. "But you are being self-indulgent and you have a moral obligation to do everything you can with the ever-present knowledge. It mostly won't work, but it doesn't matter whether you live to see its fruits.

• 14:04Tucker Carlson?

  You are obligated to try to help, help in some way." And I, and I was like, and I, of course, I showed it to my wife. It was like, God is speaking through him. You need to pay attention. I was like, you're right. You're totally right. So that actually, that conversation, which was...

• 14:22Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it was September 11th, I happen to know. Uh, when I called him to thank him for this letter. That totally changed my attitude. And I'm just so grateful to have friends who are willing, will take the time to be honest with me about my faults. And, um, people I really try, I'm not, you know, take a lot of criticism, I don't give a shit. But like, for the 30 people whose opinions I care about, some of them are really willing to take the time to be honest with me. And I needed to hear that. And I've been in a good mood ever since, despite, you know, we've had a lot of drama in my life and my family since September 11th. It's only been a little over two months, but it's like a different world. And, um, since Charlie was murdered. But I've never stopped being cheerful and hopeful

• 15:04Tucker Carlson?

  because I know that there's a mission way beyond me. And I don't know its outlines. I don't know everything about the mission. I have no secret knowledge. But I can feel very strongly that my job is to tell the truth to the extent that I can and that I'm able to see it, which is imperfectly. But I know it's outlined sometimes and I have an obligation to say what they are, no matter what the cost to me. And that is such a liberating feeling.

• 15:34Shawn Ryan?

  It's hard to, I don't know, man. I just look at all the, the, the, we were talking about this earlier too. But, you know, like, you think that because of what you've become and what you've built, that you have an impact. And, um, but do you? We've called so many things out on the show.

• 16:01Tucker Carlson?

  You know, and I hate to quote Conan O'Brien, but one of my favorite observations comes from him. "In the end, every grave goes unvisited." I try to, I live directly across from, I see my parents' graves from my kitchen. And so I, I visit my parents' graves a lot and think about them and really love them, blessed to have them as parents. But I, and I'll be buried next to them. But I think a lot, I'm like, in the end, like, this will be a subdivision or whatever, who knows what it'll be? Nuclear wasteland? I mean, it doesn't, we don't know the future. And we can be certain that we will be forgotten and that all of our efforts will be unrecognized by other people. But that doesn't mean that we don't have an obligation in the present to try our best, to do our best. And I think that everyone has different callings, of course, everyone has different

• 16:45Tucker Carlson?

  callings. But I feel strongly that my calling is to, is to tell the truth with the knowledge that most of the time it's fruitless, or if it bears fruit, I won't see it. It's planting an oak tree, like, you're not gonna see it become an oak. But you plant it anyway, because that's your duty. And I didn't serve in the military, and I didn't grow up in a duty-oriented society. I grew up in rich person world, where, you know. But, so this is something that I have come to believe more than I used to believe. But you do have a duty. You are here for a reason, all of us. And we're all acting in concert, either for good or for evil. And I think the lines are really, really clear.

• 17:29Tucker Carlson?

  And I, as I said at the outset, I think the battle is a spiritual one, which is not to say there aren't like material consequences, or it's not flesh and blood people, they are, but all of us are being acted on at all times by forces that we can't see. It's a fact. I know that, I've seen it, a lot. And how do we know the difference? Well, it's hard to tell, sometimes. And I have been lured by evil a million times, and it will happen again. But, one of the ways we know is by the way people behave. And good God is characterized by love and acceptance and concern and empathy, period. And his opponents are characterized by hate.

• 18:13Tucker Carlson?

  And so when we allow ourselves to get lured into hating, we are serving the people we oppose. Evil becomes stronger with hate. And I have learned this from watching really carefully and been involved in, in a lot of battles, rhetorical battles, in my life. And I have noticed that the goal... Of people serving evil is to make you a hater. They call you what they want you to be. And as someone who has been called many names over many years and been confused by it, because I'm very literal, like, I'm actually not a racist. Actually, I'm not a racist. And if I was, I would just admit it. But I'm not. I've said that like a thousand times. Nobody cares. They keep calling you it. So why do they call you that? Because they think you are?

• 18:58Tucker Carlson?

  Kind of obvious that I'm actually not? And they know that? No. Because they want you to become that. That's what they want you to be. You're a Nazi. And I'm like, a Nazi? No. Very anti-Nazi, actually. Why are they saying that about me? Why not just note the obvious about me? You're, well, self-indulgent, or overweight, or whatever. The things I really am. Why not criticize me on the basis of like, my obvious faults, reality? I mean, that's what I do. And you're trying to needle someone, you're like, oh, you're... And it's true. And that makes... You know, you call the fat girl fat. Why are they calling me something I'm not? And I'm obviously not. Because they want me to become that. Now, why would people who claim to hate Nazis want you to become a Nazi?

• 19:43Tucker Carlson?

  That doesn't make any sense. Because it's a spiritual principle. Hate makes evil stronger. They want to destroy you by turning your heart dark. That is the truth. And they feed on that. It makes them strong when you hate them. This is not a political principle. This is a spiritual principle. And I have seen it in action so many times that I've become totally convicted of it. And I've lived this. And so I have resolved, I don't care what people who disagree with me do to me. I don't care. I'm not going to hate them. Partly because I despise them so much, I refuse to hate them. Because.

• 20:28Tucker Carlson?

  No, I'm half joking, but no, it's like I disagree so much that I'm not going to give you what you want, which is for me to make you the center of my world by hating you. I'm not going to do that, and I'm not going to give you the spiritual power that comes from hate. Because I see what happens. I have seen it. I have literally been. The only thing I've done in my life is watch things. I've watched a lot of things in a lot of different places around the world. And I haven't learned that much, but a few things I've learned, and one is when evil convinces you to hate it, evil becomes stronger. And the only kryptonite, the only thing you can employ to make it less strong is love.

• 21:12Tucker Carlson?

  And it's many cousins, amusement, cheerfulness, laughing in the face of evil diminishes evil. So you're never going to get me to play that game. Nazi. No, you're the Nazi. Fuck you. Never doing that. I'm never going to do that, both for my own sake and because that's the path to defeat.

• 21:37Tucker Carlson?

  Does that make sense?

• 21:37Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, it does make sense. I mean, it does. Makes a lot of sense. And I.

• 21:46Shawn Ryan?

  Been a very weird journey for me.

• 21:49Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, you think? Don't you love that, though?

• 21:53Shawn Ryan?

  Love it.

• 21:54Tucker Carlson?

  Would a teenage you have guessed where you'd be now?

• 21:59Shawn Ryan?

  Five years ago.

• 22:00Tucker Carlson?

  I want to be a podcast.

• 22:01Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 22:04Shawn Ryan?

  But, you know, I don't, you know, I've been.

• 22:11Shawn Ryan?

  Thankful. I'm also sad. And I've never been this close to government ever. I mean, I worked in government, but, you know, it was very, it was very compartmentalized. So, and very focused on, you know, certain aspects. So I didn't have time to like, or access. Everybody thinks, oh, you got all this access. You don't have any fucking access.

• 22:32Tucker Carlson?

  Of course not.

• 22:33Shawn Ryan?

  But.

• 22:36Shawn Ryan?

  But after doing this and, and, and a lot of these interviews and dude, it's just so fucking dark, man. It's, it's.

• 22:46Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know. It makes me wonder like, are, are, are we here for a bigger purpose or is our purpose just to, you know, you said lead by sacrifice. I think lead by example, just set the fucking good example. You know, and, and just be a good person and.

• 23:04Shawn Ryan?

  What is it? Attraction works a lot better than promotion.

• 23:07Tucker Carlson?

  Definitely.

• 23:08Shawn Ryan?

  And, uh, that's what my wife tells me, but, uh.

• 23:15Tucker Carlson?

  But there's a cost to that. That's what, I would say the main thing that I have learned, having been around, you know, the same world that I'm around now, I've been around since I was a child. And it slowly dawned on me how rotten it was. And so the main

• 23:31Tucker Carlson?

  pitfall for me is being shocked by everything. I'm like, I can't believe how bad this is. I can't believe how corrupt this institution is, these people are. I can't believe how dark it is. I must say that a hundred times. I can't believe it. And then occasionally I'll hear myself and I'll be like, you become the, I can't believe it guy? Really? Are you shocked again? Like, how many times, this is Lucy and the football. Like, how often are you going to be shocked by what you already know? By what you've stated out loud a thousand times? So if I keep being, if you keep doing the same thing to me and I keep refusing to believe you're going to do it. And if I find myself shocked every time when you do do it. Who's the asshole?

• 24:09Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know. I mean, I think when you say it, you know what I mean? That you, you like, when you say, I can't believe. I think that, that you, I think the reason that that happens is there's still a glimmer of hope in your mind that it actually is not as fucking bad as it appears to be.

• 24:23Tucker Carlson?

  Of course it is.

• 24:24Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and then every time you go down the rabbit hole more and more and more.

• 24:28Tucker Carlson?

  We dropped atom bombs on civilians and celebrated it. Oh, it was so important we do that. Really? To incinerate a bunch of kids? Like, if you say it's important to beat the Imperial Japanese Army or replace the government with the, with a friendly government, of course, of course. If you're celebrating the incineration of children, then you're evil and all of us were, including me. So like, it's just important to recognize that and just be like, wow, I'm, we made a huge mistake. But people who refuse to acknowledge the mistake and continue to behave like that was a virtue are serving evil. That's just what it is. Like, that's what a whole project is. Like.

• 25:04Tucker Carlson?

  And they'll employ any lie to get you not to, "You hate the United States." "I hate the United States." "I don't think I do." "No, give my life for the country in a second." I feel like we're actually in the process of doing that. Giving over things that we love because we care about this land and its people because this is where we're from. "You're not going to get me off the track, but you're also not going to get me to lie." So what happens if you decide, "I'm just going to tell the truth"? You have to tell the whole truth about everything all the time. You don't, you're not required to do that. "But I'm not going to lie. I'm just going to, I'm just going to tell the truth." We're definitely going to get killed if you keep doing that. Because whether it's physically or in some way, you are going to suffer. And that's the whole story. That's a story of Jesus.

• 25:48Tucker Carlson?

  That's a story of his disciples. Almost every one of, maybe every one of whom was murdered in the end. Why? Because they were hurting people or stealing from the poor? No, because they were telling the truth. So we already know that. So I don't know why I, every single time, you know, I get attacked or I see people unfairly attacked for doing the right thing and telling the truth, and every single time I'm like, "I can't, this is shocking." It's like, "Really? I guess I didn't really believe anything I said." Because there's nothing shocking about it. It's the most predictable. I remember going on Fox and writing this script and something, but I can't even remember. Could be anything. But I was like, "It's kind of weird that all the people who lied are getting Presidential Medals of Freedom and consulting contracts at BlackRock,

• 26:33Tucker Carlson?

  and all the people who told the truth are headed to jail. We're punishing the honest." I remember being like totally out. I mean, this was like 10 years ago, I said this. And yet, every single time I've seen it in the subsequent decade, I've been every bit as shocked. And I just think, "No, it's time to acknowledge what's totally real." Charlie Kirk got murdered. No one was more shocked than I was. We had, he and I had just talked about the possibility of me getting murdered. "Oh, I'm not worried about that," I said. And then he gets murdered. And I was so shocked and, and of course upset, upset because of him specifically dying, but shocked that someone could get killed who didn't do anything wrong. He just told

• 27:17Tucker Carlson?

  the truth, like, and, and he was increasingly telling more of the truth, which is exactly why he was murdered, obviously. But I remember being shocked that. I was like, no, no. And I talked to our staff about it and we had, we've had some, you know, real drama in our lives. They were totally shocked by it and similar, you know, people trying to kill you. What, what, and I remember finally concluding and saying to them, and they agreed. It's like, what did you think this was? That's what this is. That's what our lives are. That's what everyone's life is. And, and we've gotten to the point where you can't opt out. You, you can't just say, I'm going to my fishing camp with the spaniels. I tried. Um, there

• 27:59Tucker Carlson?

  is no opting out. And anyway, and people can reach different conclusions about what their role is. And I think everyone has a different role. Not everyone has the same role at all. Not everyone has the same destiny or mission, but we're all gonna have to face that choice because it's not up to us. That's the nature of life. So I'm never, I don't care what happens. I am resolving, I'm not gonna be shocked by it. And the extent to which you're shocked is the extent to which you didn't really believe what you were saying before. And now, finally, after all these years, at 56, I really believe that what we're seeing is what we always thought we would see. Does that make sense?

• 28:44Shawn Ryan?

  It does. It does make sense.

• 28:46Tucker Carlson?

  You can't shirk it.

• 28:47Shawn Ryan?

  You've been in it for a lot longer. You've been in it for a long time. You've been close.

• 28:52Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, but I didn't see it. I mean, and I've been so attacked, like, how could you have not known that this was, this person was doing this? Or, and my own family even, especially. You're lying. You, it's like, I don't know what to tell you. The human mind is amazing. The number of things. I mean, I, I've smoked a lot of cigarettes and thought to myself, this is bad for you. That's bullshit. You know? And like, we have the capacity for self-deception that really is without parallel. Like, it's incredible what we can ignore.

• 29:27Tucker Carlson?

  And I've done my share, for sure, but I'm not being defensive about it. I just think that's how people are, certainly how I am. I'm very good at lying to myself, but especially about people I like and about myself. And, you know, we're just good at deceiving ourselves. But once I'd be, it's only been in the last 10 years. I was like, wow, I can't believe that all this stuff was, I can't believe that all this stuff is going on. And then I'm transitioning into the next phase, which is, it's okay. We were promised this, we're getting it. I'm so grateful, really, to be living in a time where I think there's less self-deception. I think people are being forced to acknowledge, not hysterical, but being forced to think about, you know, like, why am I here? And what is this? And what do I care about?

• 30:10Tucker Carlson?

  What do I actually believe as distinct from what I profess? They're not the same. And I think there's like amazing clarity and there's, of course, a great sorting going on, which you and I have talked about off-camera for sure, maybe on-camera, but the beauty of, you know, you lose so many friends. I've lost, you know, most of my friends, but the ones I've kept are real friends and they're just people I respect immensely. And then I've made all these new relationships. Like, I pride myself in having no new friendships, like, I've no new friendships, you know? I married my high school girlfriend. Like, I'm very much old-school that way, the most. But it's also true that in the past five or 10 years, I've met all these people I trust,

• 30:51Tucker Carlson?

  care about, listen to, whose opinions I really listen to and that affect me. I allow their opinions to affect me, which is the sign of, of real friendship. You know, I let you critique me and I'll hear it. And I have a bunch of people I feel that way about. How great is that? So I lost a lot of, you know, acquaintanceships and I gained some real friendships. How's that not a massive win? It is a massive win. That's awesome. Do you feel that?

• 31:26Shawn Ryan?

  No.

• 31:27Tucker Carlson?

  You will. I think you will. Your problem is you're, this is so fast.

• 31:33Shawn Ryan?

  I'm extremely guarded. I've been fucked over a lot.

• 31:36Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 31:36Shawn Ryan?

  Been lied to a lot. And it's really, really, really fucking hard to gain my trust.

• 31:41Tucker Carlson?

  I get it. I am, I get it. I get it. But you, the trajectory of your life has been so radical and abrupt. Like go from, you know, the height of one world, you know, like military, you got to the hype, obviously. The most famous part of the military, succeed in that. And then you completely changed careers. Like it couldn't be more different from what you did before. And then out of nowhere, you become really successful in that. So that's like, that's a big, very abrupt change. And I, no matter how resilient you are,

• 32:14Tucker Carlson?

  there are going to be some bumps on that road because that's just, it's just too different, right? Like if I became like a super successful business guy or figure skater tomorrow, that would kind of be like,

• 32:29Tucker Carlson?

  all of a sudden, I'm competing in the Olympics for figure skating and I win the gold medal. Like that would be very hard for me.

• 32:38Shawn Ryan?

  Oh shit, I would actually love to see that. We might have to, we might have to create an AI video of you.

• 32:43Tucker Carlson?

  In the comedy division, but yeah. But that is kind of like your life.

• 32:49Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you can't see it clearly because you're living it, but from the outside, it's obvious like, what? You actually succeeded in this new business? What are the odds of that?

• 32:59Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know. Slim to none.

• 33:01Tucker Carlson?

  In more, closer to none, I would say.

• 33:03Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:06Shawn Ryan?

  We track sleep, fine tune our macros and try to chase every biohack. But real performance starts deep at the cellular level. Armora colostrum is nature's original superfood. Colostrum is packed with over 400 bioactive nutrients that help fortify gut health, help strengthen immune health, help fuel performance and more. Let's face it, today's world throws a lot at your body. Toxins, processed foods, stress and immune disruptors are everywhere. That's why I started using Armora colostrum and I feel lighter, clearer and better than ever. Whether you're chasing a finish line, rebalancing your wellness, or aiming to feel amazing, Armora colostrum helps you operate at your highest level

• 33:51Shawn Ryan?

  because your body deserves the same optimization as your lifestyle. We've worked out a special offer for my audience. Receive 30% off your first subscription order. Go to Armora.com/SRS or enter SRS to get 30% off your first subscription order. That's A-R-M-R-A dot com slash SRS. These statements and products have not been evaluated by the FDA. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or condition. These statements and information are not a substitute for or alternative to seeking care from your healthcare providers.

• 35:25Shawn Ryan?

  You know what really bothers me is just...

• 35:31Shawn Ryan?

  Before I dug into this, it's like, there's some things that are fucked up. We're gonna expose it. We're gonna make some changes. And then the deeper you get in, and the more you look around,

• 35:43Shawn Ryan?

  everything's fucked up. It's like... Mm-hmm. It's like...

• 35:47Shawn Ryan?

  It's like what we were talking about on, on your show. Everything is a lie. And then, I mean, I mean, we manufacture fake fucking heroes in the military that even I believed went through what they said went through.

• 35:59Tucker Carlson?

  (laughing)

• 36:00Shawn Ryan?

  You know what I mean?

• 36:00Tucker Carlson?

  (laughing)

• 36:01Shawn Ryan?

  And I'm, and only to find out, like, 20 fucking years later, like, "Holy shit, this entire fucking story is a lie." "This is a fucking lie." "And that motherfucker is running around in a..." "I mean, I can't even imagine the prison that people live in, of living a lot..." "Like, everything that you're known for is a fucking lie." "Everything that people come up to you for and, and praise you about is a fucking lie."

• 36:29Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 36:30Shawn Ryan?

  "Your awards are lies." "Everything is a fucking lie." "You are, you are a..."

• 36:39Shawn Ryan?

  "And this is a lot." "There's a lot of these people walking around and I, I just know a handful of them." "And then you look at the politics." "And you, I mean, look at, look at this shit, the Epstein files." "It's a hoax." "It's a hoax." "It's a, it's a national security threat." "They're fake." "This is, like, what the fuck, man?" "The American people are fucking screaming at you." "Screaming that they want this shit released." "Congress, well, I don't even know that, what is it like, I can't remember." "How many people are in Congress, 400 and..."

• 37:07Tucker Carlson?

  535 Senate plus House. 435 in the House.

• 37:11Shawn Ryan?

  Everybody except one person.

• 37:13Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 37:14Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know, who, who is the one person?

• 37:16Tucker Carlson?

  Some guy.

• 37:17Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. But...

• 37:22Shawn Ryan?

  And, and so, like, back, you know, back to earlier, like, "We want to make an impact, we want to tell the truth, we want to, you know, do these..." "And..."

• 37:32Shawn Ryan?

  "We had a, a big influence in the last election." "Was that, was, seemed like a great thing."

• 37:37Tucker Carlson?

  Didn't matter.

• 37:38Shawn Ryan?

  At a time, at the time, it felt great. Did it, was that a good thing?

• 37:46Tucker Carlson?

  You know, you can't.

• 37:46Shawn Ryan?

  Now, we got a guy who's, "Oh, America first," all this other fucking bullshit. And, and everybody, everybody is screaming, "Release these fucking files. We want to know what is going on. We want to know."

• 38:00Tucker Carlson?

  What will we find out if they were all released? Anything we didn't know?

• 38:04Shawn Ryan?

  I honestly have no idea. Is it the end of the fucking country? Like, is it, is it really that bad?

• 38:09Tucker Carlson?

  C.S. Lewis has this, well, I have tons of opinions on the subject. I don't have, you know, concrete proof. Of course, I think I know, but C.S. Lewis has this, I think it was C.S. Lewis, has this essay in which he says, "People debate, you know, was Jesus really God?" or whatever. If Jesus came back to Earth tomorrow and held a press conference, like, a week later, people would be talking about something else. It's like, we actually know what's true. We know what's true, and the way that dogs know what's true. You can't reason with a dog. The dog can smell it. And he sticks with his opinion because he has no other input. If you hate a dog, you can't talk your way out of it.

• 38:53Tucker Carlson?

  The dog knows you hate the dog, because dogs have unerring instincts, and so do we. And so, of course, we know exactly what the Epstein story is about. It's about the deep corruption of global leadership, of course. And you can say, "It's about Israel. It's about the CIA." Well, it's about, is there a distinction, really? Not just between Israel and, you know, Mossad and CIA, but about the British government, or really kind of any government, or any, you know, Bill Gates or Leon Black. It's all kind of varieties of the same thing. It's corrupt leadership that is acting on its own behalf against the interests of the people they lead. It's the oldest story there is. It's the Pharisees. And if we're honest, we already know that.

• 39:36Tucker Carlson?

  So, I mean, I, of course, I'm completely for disclosure of everything, but I don't lie to myself and say that disclosure would change human nature, because it won't, and people have an opportunity to exploit others, generally will. And the rest of us need to fight daily against that, not because we're going to win in the short term, but because it is our duty.

• 39:59Tucker Carlson?

  And to serve what's good and true, period, even if we're killed doing it. So, I don't know. I mean, I won't stop pushing for disclosure. I really believe that. Trust is built on honesty. It's not built on lies, ever.

• 40:12Shawn Ryan?

  You know, you, you, you say, you know, does it change? I think, I can't remember your exact verbiage, but you know, you, we were talking about, you know, when this gets exposed, does it change anything? No, this is the, this is the nature of man. This is what happens. But-

• 40:26Tucker Carlson?

  Where do you know the answer?

• 40:26Shawn Ryan?

  Men need to be reset. And men have not been fucking reset, not in this country for a long, long time.

• 40:33Tucker Carlson?

  That's coming, whether we want it or not. We don't want it, but it's coming. And- All this shit about, "Women don't need men."

• 40:41Tucker Carlson?

  You, you've obviously seen chaos in a society, right? Like, actual chaos. People just like, shoot into buildings and no one arrests them. You spent your life around that stuff. Those societies don't ask questions like, "What are men for?" You know what I mean? Right. And we're, of course, moving closer to that. And all of this, all of our silliest manifestations, you know, the trans craziness, or feminism, or other just revolts against nature, are only possible because we live in this nerf world of affluence. But as that starts to change, and it is changing, then we, the upside of that, we're gonna get poorer and the society will become more dangerous, but we'll also be a little more rooted in reality. In the same way that rich people are insufferable, not all, but a lot of rich people are insufferable,

• 41:25Tucker Carlson?

  because they're detached from reality, from nature, from God, from like, the things that are real, and they convince themselves, because they can fly from point to point without going through TSA, that they have infinite power, and they don't. And that's why they're so hard to have dinner with. But a normal society doesn't have these problems. It has all kinds of other problems, but doesn't have the American problems of like, you know, "I'll just, you know, I'm a 40-year-old unmarried Citibank executive. I'll just get a surrogate." It's like, okay. For the suicide rate, there's not a lot of suicide in, you know, impoverished countries. Because like, the mission is really clear: eat.

• 42:08Tucker Carlson?

  You know, there's not a lot of crisis of meaning in Burundi.

• 42:13Shawn Ryan?

  It's a fight for the day.

• 42:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, it's a fight for the day. Well, it's a trade off. I mean, I would much rather live in a DoorDash society because I like comfort and ease and everything, but it is a trade off and you trade comfort for meaning. That's just kind of what we've done and we shouldn't be surprised. Again, we shouldn't be surprised by it.

• 42:32Shawn Ryan?

  What do you think happens, honestly? If this, one, do you think this is actually gonna, is this gonna come out? Or has it all been shredded? I mean, you know, Mark

• 42:43Tucker Carlson?

  I don't, of course. I mean, we don't, we don't have the JFK files. And, um, and so then you ask like, why don't we? Who is being protected here? There are no living stakeholders in that story. There's no living participant

• 43:00Tucker Carlson?

  in that murder conspiracy. It was a conspiracy. We know that. So who were the participants in that conspiracy? Well, no one's still alive. So who could we possibly be protecting? By not releasing all those files? And that's a pretty short list of suspects. So I think we kind of know what that is, at least in part. I don't know the details. I know some, but that's, I think it's pretty obvious. Same with Epstein. It's pretty clear who some of the players were. They were governments, the US government involved, British government involved, Israeli government involved at various levels. The guy lived a fairly long life. He died in his mid 60s. He was pretty active in government work, arms trading, for example.

• 43:44Tucker Carlson?

  From a young age, from his late 20s, I think, when he left Bear Stearns, he got into that business with Robert Maxwell. You don't trade arms by yourself. You do it on behalf of governments and with the assistance of governments. Obviously, you've been around this, you know. So from that age, from say 30 to what 65 ish when he died, so 35 years, he's intersecting with governments. It's, and it's not just the Israelis. I mean, Israelis were definitely involved. Ehud Barak is living at his house. I mean, okay. And we have a lot of his emails that prove that, but, and I'm not defending the Israeli government, which is hard to defend, but I'm just telling, trying to tell the truth, which is, it's not just the Israelis, okay?

• 44:24Tucker Carlson?

  It's us, it's the British, the French, it's the usual players, the intel services that matter in the West and probably others. So that's who's being protected, of course, and then all kinds of other pawns. And so I think one of the main takeaways from that story, about which I know a lot, but not everything, is that the leaders that we believe are leaders, and people are starting to get this, like our elected officials, oh, they have so much power, Senator so-and-so, President, what's his name, you know, like, these are the people running our society, are not the people running our society. Of course, they themselves are subject to enormous pressures from, you know, other

• 45:05Tucker Carlson?

  people and coalitions of people and forces and interests and like, that's what they're, and the closer you get to them, the more time you spend with the people who are in charge, the more you realize they're not really in charge, or they're only semi-in charge.

• 45:19Shawn Ryan?

  How does, how does it happen? I am very, I mean, you know, in, how does it happen? Do they, we talked about this a little bit at breakfast. I don't think everything is, is transactional as it may seem.

• 45:36Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, no.

• 45:37Shawn Ryan?

  I think that, this is from my own experience, and I, and I don't believe I've fallen into any yet, but I think I've, I have come close. I think they, they, they set traps, and that, that doesn't mean there's a hooker in the fucking hotel room that you walk into.

• 45:59Tucker Carlson?

  There is sometimes.

• 46:00Shawn Ryan?

  You know what I mean?

• 46:01Tucker Carlson?

  There is sometimes.

• 46:02Shawn Ryan?

  For somebody that fucking weak.

• 46:03Tucker Carlson?

  You'd have to be.

• 46:04Shawn Ryan?

  You know, that would be great.

• 46:05Tucker Carlson?

  And stupid, by the way.

• 46:06Shawn Ryan?

  But, and I'm sure there's plenty of people out there that are that fucking stupid.

• 46:10Tucker Carlson?

  The porn sites, I'm gonna look up tranny porn on YouPorn. Well, that's not controlled by a foreign intel service. Oh, it is. It is, that actually is true. So, yeah, I mean, there are a million ways that your weaknesses expose you to influence, for sure.

• 46:27Shawn Ryan?

  I think they

• 46:30Shawn Ryan?

  they can be very giving. And it did in in I think they can be very giving and it appears that you're being led into a group. And then.

• 46:42Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I'm watching that right now with someone. Yes.

• 46:44Shawn Ryan?

  And then you're fucking done.

• 46:45Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 46:46Shawn Ryan?

  But not even realizing it until you're in.

• 46:48Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, yes.

• 46:50Shawn Ryan?

  And I think I've come close and I always play if I even get a fucking inkling of that happening, I'm like, nope, done, not going, not not getting on the jet.

• 46:59Tucker Carlson?

  Stay true to that.

• 47:00Shawn Ryan?

  Going there, not going there, not doing it. Like, I'm my own fucking person and I don't.

• 47:08Shawn Ryan?

  What are you gonna give me? Money? I've got that.

• 47:11Tucker Carlson?

  How about when you?

• 47:12Shawn Ryan?

  It's not all it's cracked up to be.

• 47:13Tucker Carlson?

  You don't even know what's happening. I mean, how many plots have I been involved in unwittingly? I don't even know the answer, but a lot, a lot I can think of a bunch of them. Where you have someone like who you work for being like, you know, we should really take a look at this. This guy's bad. Let's, you know? Okay. You know, when I was young, living in Washington, I was I was used all the time and had no idea. I literally had no, it never even occurred to me. And a lot of my resentment as a middle aged man comes from that. And I think a lot about it. And I'm not going to blame the people who did it because that's who they are, but

• 47:55Tucker Carlson?

  I definitely participated in a lot of stuff without my knowledge that was much more strategic than I ever guessed. You're sitting in a meeting, you know, we should really do this. Okay, I'll do it. And you wind up doing it and then ultimately became inconsistent with my instincts and my conscience. And I was like, ah, this is bad. I'm not quite sure how, but then you look back and you're like, oh, my gosh. And now, of course, my whole life is. You know, I don't understand anything, really, but you see glimpses of a lot of different things every single day. Well, you should go here and talk to so and so and like, what is this exactly? And if you're busy, you don't ask yourself enough, what is this? I mean, I think that happens to me every single day because my text is public. So everyone has my text, everybody has my text.

• 48:40Tucker Carlson?

  I have the same number for 30 years, I'm not changing it. I just refuse, I'm not afraid of people and I'm not going to change my number. And so I get hundreds and hundreds of texts every day, some for people I know, most of the people I do know. And, you know, some of them are totally straightforward and people I trust, and a lot of them aren't. And sometimes I don't care what plot you're hatching. I want to do this thing because I have my own agenda, which is to shed light on something that isn't well-known enough. That's, this is my perspective and I'm going to do it. I don't care whether it fits into your plans or not, I'm doing it. I've done a lot of interviews, like a lot of interviews and traveled to a lot of countries with that in mind. But yeah, there are tons of people trying to suborn you and make you part of their agenda. And mostly, it's not blackmail.

• 49:24Tucker Carlson?

  I've never been blackmailed in my life. No one's ever suggested that. I'm not, I'm, you know, I'm not banging the hooker in my room. Sorry, I don't drink. I mean, it's like, kind of hard to blackmail me. I like to think it's impossible, maybe they could find a way. But, but that's not how it happens for most people. And, but then there's another element, which I'm thinking a lot about, which I don't really understand, but I know is real, where people fall under a kind of spell. Mm-hmm. And people you know to be rational, Mike Huckabee is one of them. We were talking this at breakfast because I'm obsessed with it because I know Mike Huckabee so well. I was at the newspaper in Arkansas over 30 years ago and I knew him then. I went up at Fox News with him decades later. I worked with him, I knew him then. I always liked Mike Huckabee, I like him now.

• 50:10Tucker Carlson?

  Mike Huckabee is not a bad person. He's very money oriented, which is a weakness for anybody, of course. So there's that, but that's not unusual. He's not a bad person at all. Mike Huckabee is a nice man. But Mike Huckabee has participated in things that are just objectively evil, in my opinion. And how did that happen? Because Mike Huckabee woke up and decided he wanted to do something evil? No, I know Mike Huckabee. He doesn't feel that way at all. He's a decent man. I watch Huckabee, and because I do know him, I marvel at it. He has fallen under some sort of spell. I do think it's supernatural. I know a number of people like that.

• 50:50Tucker Carlson?

  I'm calling him out by name because he's been involved in something recently that's like so shocking to me that I can't even believe he participated in something like that.

• 51:00Shawn Ryan?

  He said we wouldn't be shocked anymore.

• 51:03Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly, exactly. We wouldn't be shocked anymore. So everything that I have learned comes from like sitting in my sauna, trying to figure out obvious things. Complex things are very easy to understand. Simple things that are right in front of your face are the great mysteries. And when you know people and you have a fairly good sense of their character and their, you know, what they're, the kind of things they'd be willing to do, what their goals are. I think Mike Huckabee's goal is to spread the gospel of Jesus. And I think that about him. I do, I think a lot of Mike Huckabee. How could a man like that wind up doing the things that he's been doing? Not creepy personal things, nothing, nothing like that, but like promoting

• 51:46Tucker Carlson?

  things that are like obviously evil, like the murder of kids. Like, how could you do that? Well, he couldn't do that. He would never do that. He's doing it because he is under some kind of spell. He has no idea he's doing it. And I just explained a time in my life where I was under a kind of spell. It never even occurred to me. I worked for Bill Kristol at the time. Now, Bill Kristol, my editor, my boss, who gave me this job, was hilarious in meetings, that he could really be working tirelessly on an agenda that was like...

• 52:20Tucker Carlson?

  Totally anti-Christian. How could that ever be? That what Bill Kristol really hates is Christianity. That never occurred to me. And he wanted to stamp out nationalism and, you know, public displays of loyalty to Jesus. Like, he hated that. I did not get that at all. It never occurred, never entered my brain one time. So I was under respond myself. So I'm not even judging. I'm just saying people fall into this way of thinking that is so clear to me, influenced by supernatural forces, where they are blinded. And the entire Bible, from beginning to end, is the story of people who can't see things right in front of them. They just can't.

• 53:04Tucker Carlson?

  It's happening right there. So all this evidence, it's overwhelming. They can touch it, smell it, feel it, but they cannot acknowledge its reality. And so, anyway, that's part of it. People are engaged in these projects that are just like totally anti-human, and they think they're on the right side. They really believe it. So I would just say, like, the analysis of, that I read on the internet, I try to not read the internet, but, you know, you read it and you're like, people of good faith are like, wow, that person's clearly getting a payoff. Or, you know, they've got videotape of him banging a dog or whatever they think about these. Do you know what I mean? They're compromised. And I think because I know so many of the people

• 53:48Tucker Carlson?

  they're talking about, I'm like, yeah, in some Lindsey Graham, like, okay, I believe that. Like, what is that? But there are a million other people who I'm like, I don't think there's videotape of them doing anything wrong. I don't think they're taking money for this. I think they really believe they're doing the right thing. And that's more upsetting to me because it's more subtle and it's more profound than just blackmail. Does that make sense? It does make sense. And looking back on your life, I mean, it's hard for any of us to look back on our lives without feeling very complicated feelings. But do you detect any moments where, like, you were involved in something and you never even paused to ask, like, what is this? Why am I participating in this?

• 54:32Tucker Carlson?

  It never even dawned on you.

• 54:37Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, I just, I think.

• 54:42Shawn Ryan?

  You just have to, I mean, when I started doing this, I just.

• 54:48Shawn Ryan?

  There's all kinds of cr- I've got all kinds of incriminating shit out there.

• 54:53Tucker Carlson?

  I believe it.

• 54:54Shawn Ryan?

  Tons of it, you know, but I did, and I'm aware of it, and I know it was fucked up, that what I did.

• 55:00Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 55:01Shawn Ryan?

  You know, I'm not, um.

• 55:02Tucker Carlson?

  But did you know it at the time?

• 55:04Shawn Ryan?

  Reconciliation. Yeah, I knew it was fucked up at the time. Not all of it, but yeah, the majority of it, like, I mean, it didn't, I didn't, I didn't fall into any honeypots. I didn't need a honeypot.

• 55:16Tucker Carlson?

  But that's the point. That's too obvious. That's too obvious. They're never gonna get you with the Russian hooker because everyone's on guard against the Russian hooker.

• 55:27Shawn Ryan?

  They didn't need to do anything to get me to fall into anything because I was already doing it all. And there's this thing, you know, called reconciliation, confession, whatever you wanna call it. You know, you come clean and then, and you, you fucking own it, you know? Jaco calls it extreme ownership, right? But I, I mean, it's, it's taking ownership of your fuck-ups and like, you cannot be afraid of that. And there's, I don't. I tend to think that people are very forgiving and so I don't know, you know, when we talk about shit like the Epstein and all of this stuff, right? Like, when we talk about all of these things and all of the blackmail and stuff, it's like, just come clean, man. Just.

• 56:08Tucker Carlson?

  I've made this argument a million times. Everyone wants to believe in our institutions. I, I certainly feel that way. As disappointed and angry as I am about the failure of every institution, I really wanna believe in the institutions. You know, I really, really do. I mean that. And all it takes to restore a relationship with a person or an institution is honesty and repentance. That's it. It's like, not hard. People are so forgiving. I totally agree with that. All of us want to forgive. There's nothing better than the prodigal son. Like, he's gone. Fuck that guy. He took all the money and left. He's, you know, in whorehouses in Babylon and then, but now he's here. It's all forgiven. We're so excited for you. We're throwing a huge party for you. All of us feel that way.

• 56:49Tucker Carlson?

  And so I don't think it's hard. Or it's hard, but it's not complicated and it's so worth it to say, I was completely wrong. I'll be wrong again. I'm gonna try my best. Maybe sometimes I won't try my best, but just be honest.

• 57:05Tucker Carlson?

  I think that's liberation. That's the only liberation, actually.

• 57:08Shawn Ryan?

  It's freeing.

• 57:10Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, what, I mean, what other liberation is there?

• 57:19Shawn Ryan?

  I'm, I just.

• 57:25Shawn Ryan?

  Does voting matter anymore?

• 57:28Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know.

• 57:29Shawn Ryan?

  This, I'm just.

• 57:31Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know whether voting matters.

• 57:32Shawn Ryan?

  So much, like, looking back, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I mean, we didn't really have much of a fucking option here, but I mean, at least though we thought. But it's.

• 57:47Shawn Ryan?

  Nothing I voted for happened.

• 57:54Shawn Ryan?

  What about you?

• 57:57Shawn Ryan?

  Are you happy with anything?

• 57:58Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I'm happy with so much.

• 58:00Shawn Ryan?

  It's going on.

• 58:01Tucker Carlson?

  Of course not. No, it's just a nightmare of depravity and corruption in general in the world. But what'd you expect? I am so struck by. You know, I'm not a TV watcher, but there's the only really famous Seinfeld episode is Opposite Day. You're probably in the jungle or doing something bad somewhere. You missed this, but um. There's this famous episode of the sitcom Seinfeld where one of the characters decides to do everything the opposite that day and gets like results he didn't expect. It works. And I just feel like that is the lesson of everything. That's the lesson of life. That's the beatitudes. The first will be last. The meek shall inherit the earth. What's that? It's the opposite of what you think.

• 58:48Tucker Carlson?

  Jesus says, I'm gonna build my church on this rock. Peter has just betrayed him three times to a girl. Rock? That's like Jell-O. It's the opposite. If you're gonna build a church, you build it on the strongest man. He builds it on the weakest man. And everything in our life points to the same truth. It's the opposite of what you expect every freaking time.

• 59:07Tucker Carlson?

  And so again, back to the same theme. No, I'm not shocked. But.

• 59:16Tucker Carlson?

  It really makes me happy to know the only thing that matters is the words you speak and that they're true. That's the only thing that changes history ever. Think about the number of wars, some of which you've participated in directly over the past 25 years. How many have like made things better, changed anything? I'm doing the math, zero. How many wars actually do? It's the biggest war in human history, 1914 to 1918. Set the stage for the even bigger war in history. So it's like, but what does make things better? Telling the truth. In the end, when everything is gone, when your civilization has been leveled and archaeologists

• 59:56Tucker Carlson?

  are trying to piece together, you know, what it was all about, the only things that remain are the words that you spoke. And they're the things that change people. And this is like an ancient concept. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. It's, you know, ancient cultures understood that an idea articulated emerges from the mouth of the speaker and becomes a separate living thing and lives there forever. And anyone who's argued with his wife knows that that's true. The second you say something harsh, especially if it's true, it can't be taken back and it hangs there in the kitchen over you, overshadowing everything.

• 1:00:39Tucker Carlson?

  So, and, or this last argument I'll make, the way to, the way that I understand the world is in reverse, almost like an X-ray. So I look at the people who I don't respect, who I believe have totalitarian impulses, and I try to assess what's true by what their priorities are. So your enemies are the people who want to control you and crush you and destroy your family and your nation, obviously. What do they want above all? They want to control what you say. They want to control what you say. What's the first amendment to the Bill of Rights, the freedom of speech? What you say matters more than anything.

• 1:01:19Tucker Carlson?

  Your words articulated out loud are living things and they're more powerful than you are and they live beyond you. Your grave will go unvisited, your words will continue to reverberate through the universe. I really believe that. I know that that's true and that's the whole story of history. There are no living ancient Hebrews. We know a lot about what they thought because they wrote it down. Their words have lived for 3,000 years. So what we say is the most important thing about us. And if we can force ourselves to tell the truth, we will change things.

• 1:02:00Tucker Carlson?

  And by things, I mean people and their attitudes, their beliefs, their hearts. And that's all we can do. That's all we can do. And I would say if we make a little extra money on the side, we should build a fishing camp in the woods because I think that's really important. But it's not as important as, I mean, like, yeah, I do think that. I have all kinds of sentimental attachments. I don't really care about things that much, but I care about nature. So, so like, that is important. But, but it's not important in an ultimate sense. My fishing camp will be a strip mall someday, you know? Or it'll be a lunar landscape someday. But your words will outlive you. I love that. I just think that's true.

• 1:02:44Tucker Carlson?

  And I, no one has convinced me of that. I've been convinced of that by watching. And really, I've been convinced of it by watching what the opponents of people and of civilization really care about. And the number one thing they care about is getting you to shut up. As long as you'll shut up, you can have whatever you want. And that, that really is the trade off that our leaders make. It's not by doing things, it's by not saying certain things. And the ones who refuse to be told what to say are destroyed or face the threat of destruction. And you know exactly who they are. Now, what have they done exactly? Does anyone care what the two or three truth tellers in our political system have done? What they voted for with their, no one even knows.

• 1:03:29Tucker Carlson?

  No one cares. All they care about is what they say out loud. And the reason they care is because that's the most important thing. They know what's important. We don't. We're totally sidetracked by this, that, baubles and fast-moving flashy objects. But they know what's important. The spoken word is the most important.

• 1:03:53Tucker Carlson?

  Anyway, so that that makes me feel good. That makes me feel really, really good because I know what my mission is. And I feel like if you know what your mission is and you know what the stakes are and you're willing to accept them, and I should just say, I'm in such an unusual position because all my kids are grown and they're all thriving and I don't have any investors or debt, no one can control me. I'm kind of happy with less. I'm not a money, I've never been a money person. I'm not bragging, but I've never have been, ask anyone who knows me. And so they're really, the cost to me is so much lower than to a man with like four kids in private school, you're 35 and your wife's like, where you're barely making it. You are subject, and I have been, and earlier in my life, subject to all kinds of control

• 1:04:34Tucker Carlson?

  mechanisms you don't even perceive, but you're so afraid of losing what you have. And you're really afraid of it because you have children at home. And having small children at home who are totally dependent on you, who you love more than your own life, that is a really, really scary time for every man. And I know that you're living it now, and I've lived it. My oldest is 31 years old next week. I've lived it for 31 years, I know. But you get to a point where it's not such an imminent threat because your children have their own lives. And if you're blessed as I've been, they're doing great. You love them and you want to see your grandchildren, there's so many things you want, but you don't need any of it. And your responsibility is gone.

• 1:05:17Tucker Carlson?

  I'm not responsible for educating someone and telling him the facts of life at dinner. You know what I mean? It's like, that's all, I'm done. So I'm just in this incredibly privileged position where the stakes are just a lot lower for me. So I can see with greater clarity, what, what am I doing for the back nine? And I just have such a simple, simple understanding of that. Just tell the truth. Don't be moved from the truth. You don't have to tell the whole truth. You don't have to say everything. And I know a lot of shit, or I think I know a lot of shit because that's my job. And a lot of it, I'm not sure it's true, or, I don't know, don't say everything, you know? You don't have to. You don't have to tell people, oh, you're, you're fat. You don't have, that, okay, it's probably true.

• 1:06:02Tucker Carlson?

  You don't have to say that. You don't have no obligation to say that. Your only obligation, don't ever lie. Don't allow people to make you lie. Resolve, I'll die first. I'm just telling you, die first, not gonna do that. And I think that's, that's your duty.

• 1:06:23Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I don't know. Throughout this journey, it's just in kids, especially kids, man. It's made me really try to start honing in on things that I I can actually make an impact in.

• 1:06:35Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:06:35Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and like, like we were talking about, there's, there's, there are things and that you can make an impact in. And we have little nuggets here and there, but um, you know, I don't think fucking politics is for me. And I don't, I don't think.

• 1:06:51Tucker Carlson?

  It's not for me either. It's not for me. I don't.

• 1:06:54Shawn Ryan?

  You know, to be in like, um.

• 1:06:56Tucker Carlson?

  I don't even understand it. And I mean, you were off fighting wars. I was covering the Congress and the White House and a million elections all around the country. I've been to every state, you know, every, I know all the politicians personally. I still don't even understand the process. And I'm not interested in it. I really am not. Some consultant called me yesterday to get me to interview someone and he's like, oh, you know, this is a congressional district 13. This is, I don't even know what you're talking about. I just have so little interest in it, you know?

• 1:07:25Tucker Carlson?

  It's not interesting and people who are really, really interested in it are damaged, I think, in general, I don't want to generalize, but you know, overall, not a group I want to have dinner with.

• 1:07:37Shawn Ryan?

  Right now, America's going through a transition in the way we think about money. For years, people called Bitcoin a fad. Well, here we are in 2025 and more Americans than ever are holding Bitcoin. Wall Street's in it. Congress is talking about it and regular folks are stacking it as part of their future. That's where today's sponsor Gemini comes in. They offer the only instant Bitcoin rewards credit card. Every time you buy gas, groceries or gear, instead of collecting points, you'll never use your earning Bitcoin. Real, hard digital money that you own. You swipe, you earn, it's yours. It's great because it's simple. No need to time the market or think about it. You just live your life.

• 1:08:21Shawn Ryan?

  And every purchase builds a position in Bitcoin. That's real financial independence. Plus, this card has no annual fee and no foreign transaction fees. Bitcoin rewards earned and held for one year on the Gemini credit card have appreciated 279% on average. You're investing as you spend. Truly a no-brainer. To sign up for the Gemini credit card, head to Gemini.com/SRS and get $200 in Bitcoin when you spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. You can see if you're eligible with no impact to your credit score. Click the link or go to Gemini.com/SRS to apply and start earning instantly.

• 1:09:05Shawn Ryan?

  See rates and fees in the description for more info or by visiting Gemini.com.

• 1:09:14Shawn Ryan?

  You've probably seen the headlines. Another trillion added to the national debt. It's hard to even grasp the scale of it. 38 trillion in climbing. While Washington keeps kicking the can down the road, more and more everyday Americans are losing confidence in the system. That's why we're seeing record demand for gold and silver right now. It's not just everyday Americans either. Central banks across the globe are buying gold at the fastest pace in decades. That's exactly why I've partnered with the award-winning company, GoldCo. They specialize in helping people protect their retirement savings. They use real assets, gold and silver, and they make the process simple and transparent.

• 1:09:57Shawn Ryan?

  Go to shawnlikesgold.com right now to get your free 2025 Gold and Silver Kit. You'll learn how to help safeguard what you've worked hard for. Plus, you could qualify for up to 10% in free bonus silver, one of the best deals out there. So visit shawnlikesgold.com today. One more time, that's shawnlikesgold.com. Performance may vary. You should always consult your financial and tax professional.

• 1:10:27Shawn Ryan?

  What are you passionate about now? I mean, I'm looking for things that I can make an impact in. What is it?

• 1:10:33Tucker Carlson?

  Like what issues? I mean, I'm super passionate about my family. My family is so big that it's like it's literally, I could spend all day, every day, involved in family stuff. There's just so many people and, you know, I'm the oldest male. And so it's just, you know, really involved, really very close, super close cohesive family. Everyone's everyone's best friend. It's just so interesting and you can just like get involved and try to help in marginal ways or whatever, just talk to people. So I I'm very interested in that. I'm interested, I have more hobbies than any person's ever had, way too many. My son's like, you should take a bow hunting. Yeah, I don't think so. Like, I need more obsessions. I don't think so.

• 1:11:18Tucker Carlson?

  Too many rabbit holes already in my life, but what am I interested in my job?

• 1:11:21Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, when you're talking about telling truth, when you're talking about, and the way I take that is exposing, you know, shining the light in the darkness.

• 1:11:31Tucker Carlson?

  I'm interested in the elimination of white people.

• 1:11:35Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean by that?

• 1:11:37Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, white people have been targeted for disappearance and no one wants to say that because they've been bullied into not noticing or talking about it because you're like a white supremacist. Well, I'm not a white supremacist. I don't think whites are inherently superior to any other group. I don't judge how I feel about someone by his race. I never have and I'm never going to. It's against my religion and it's against my instinct. I believe in what people are like. But I travel a lot around the world and I'm not an expert in the world, but I, you know, I know more about it than people who don't travel a lot. And I'm leaving this week again. And one thing that I have noticed, because it's impossible not to notice, is that majority

• 1:12:22Tucker Carlson?

  white countries are becoming non-majority white. And that's a result of policies that are deliberate, that are not popular with the populations of those countries, and that people are discouraged from noticing in it. In some places, they're arrested, like in Great Britain, where I'm going on Friday. So it's like, what is that? And it's not happening in one or two, but in every single one. And what's so interesting is because no one's been allowed to talk about it, the only people who talk about it are like crazy race theorists or, you know, prison inmates who are like...

• 1:12:59Tucker Carlson?

  Whatever caught up in being white or something. By the way, you didn't choose to be white. Okay, it's nothing you did. You didn't choose to have your eye color or your height. None of these things you can brag about because you didn't do them. They're an accident of your birth. So I've never agreed with any of that crap. But because normal people have been bullied into not noticing, the only people ever saying anything about it are people who are obsessed with it. But it is an incredible thing that every white country on the planet, except Russia, the one everyone hates, is on the road in very short order

• 1:13:40Tucker Carlson?

  to become completely different from what it was 50 years ago. In its population, demographically different. Is that an accident? Well, of course, it's not an accident. It's the result of a bunch of different. It's a multi-pronged strategy, clearly, to make the populations of those countries hate themselves for how they were born and accept these changes. It's been systematic. What is that? I'm not, as I said, I'm not a white. By the way, I would just admit it at this point. Why do I care? I'm a white sprung, so, okay. I'm actually not. I disagree with that. Don't think that you should be obsessed with people's appearance, eh, or the accident of their birth or their genetics.

• 1:14:24Tucker Carlson?

  I just am opposed to all of that. Again, for the eighth time, Paul, the chief prosecutor, murderer of Christians, became the most important Christian once he met Jesus. So if you need more examples, I don't know what they could be, that people can totally change. There's nothing to do with how you're born. It's what you become. And that's my deepest belief. So if I sound defensive, it's because we have all been trained to ignore this amazing thing that's never happened before in history, where one group of people. Is being destroyed and, and of course have internalized that and are now enthusiastically participating in their own destruction and the death of an entire group of people.

• 1:15:09Tucker Carlson?

  And it really is like if you go to Great Britain, it's the whites can't wait to kill themselves. It's in Canada, same thing. They have the maids program, which is state sponsored killing of its own citizens. Physician assisted suicide. No, it's the state encouraging people to kill themselves. And it's one of the leading causes of death in Canada is this maids program.

• 1:15:31Shawn Ryan?

  Is this, are these the machines that these?

• 1:15:34Tucker Carlson?

  It could be machines. It's, you know, the state is licensed to kill its citizens. The citizen just goes in and said, I want to be killed and they kill you. And basically for any reason, mental health problems, financial problems, a lot of poor people are just like, I feel like I'm a burden to the country. I want to go die and the state will kill you. It's one of the leading causes of death in Canada. So the numbers came out yesterday. Well, who's doing this? So Canada's about 65% white, something like that is completely changed, heavily, heavily South Asian and Indian, Bangladeshi, Pakistani and lots of other peoples, you know, it's massive immigration, massive, massive immigration into Canada. But who's being killed by the state in Canada? It's like 97% legacy whites, literally. And what the hell is that?

• 1:16:19Tucker Carlson?

  And of course, these are people who have been told and now believe that like they're a burden to society. It's selfish to have children and they've been totally brainwashed into mass suicide. And of course, none of this is affecting my family. We're, we have the opposite views. We're not proud to be white. We're not white because we chose to be white. We just happen to be born white. So there's nothing to be proud of, it's just a fact. On the other hand, targeting people on the basis of their race for destruction is the reason we say we hate the Nazis. And yet that's absolutely happening globally in every white country. Australia, New Zealand, Great Britain, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England.

• 1:17:06Tucker Carlson?

  The United States and Canada. That's an accident? It's not an accident at all. And no one will say anything about it. And why wouldn't you say something like, what is that? If that, by the way, if that were happening in India? Like, we've got too many Indians here. A billion Indians? That's too many Indians. We need more Africans here. So anyone Indian, like, here's that we can kill you because you're a burden. Just not have kids or take some SSRIs and just benzos and weed and just zone out until you die or whatever, but like, you're bad. I would be like, that's the sickest thing I've ever seen. Like, why do we hate Indians? I kind of like Indians or whatever. He would just be like, why is, why, why would we want to do that to them? What did they do wrong?

• 1:17:51Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, I would just think that. And that's happening to whites globally at such a speed. And no one is saying anything about it that I've decided, because I just want to tell the truth about what I notice, that I'm going to say something about it. I think it's totally wrong. I think it's totally evil. Again, it's exactly what we said we hated about the Nazis and were participating in it. And I'm going to keep saying that no matter what they say. And they'll be like, oh, you're a white supremacist. I'm not. And I have a lot of theories about what this is and why.

• 1:18:29Shawn Ryan?

  What is it? Why would they do it? Who is they?

• 1:18:33Tucker Carlson?

  Well, every globalist, the United Nations, the United States government, State Department, all of our politicians.

• 1:18:37Shawn Ryan?

  The motive.

• 1:18:38Tucker Carlson?

  Joe Biden's standing up and being like, the main problem in America is white racism from white men. Said that on tape many times. And I can't wait till this is a non-white majority country. What? Why would you? Okay, you could argue about whether it's better or worse as non-white, you know, okay, you could argue like the effects of it. But why would you want that? Why would you look around the country and say there are too many white people? And that's the, that's the official position of every institution in the United States. All of our schools. We give preference to non-whites, non-white males, every single school, every single big business, every single federal contract. Institutionally, we are opposed to whites and white men. And it's, we're so marinating in it that no one stops and says, wait, what the hell is that? Again, that's why we hated the Nazis because they did shit like that.

• 1:19:22Tucker Carlson?

  So we say segregation was wrong, which it was. That's why we hate Bull Connor. That's why we venerate Martin Luther King. Because that's wrong. That way of thinking is wrong. And by the way, it doesn't matter what group is being targeted. It is wrong in an absolute sense. It's a universal principle. It's always wrong. Whether you're Pakistani or Malaysian or Indian or from Myanmar or from Minnesota. It's always wrong to hurt people or help others, to elevate some and suppress others on the basis of their race. I thought that was the basis of our common culture. And they told me it was. They put a monument on the mall to that, which I totally believe in. Judge a man by the content of his character, not the color of his skin. I grew up with that.

• 1:20:07Tucker Carlson?

  I believe it. I believe it now. And we're doing exactly the opposite. And it's so totally pervasive, all pervasive. And nothing has been done to reverse it at all. We're mad about antisemitism at Harvard, which I'm against antisemitism completely for the same reasons. But no one's lifted a finger to address the actual problem, which is like, normal middle-class white kids have no shot of going to Harvard. They're hated. The curriculum hates them officially. Here's a book saying whiteness is evil. Let's assign that. It's like, if there was a book that says Jewishness is evil, we'd be like, no. Or blackness is evil? No. So this has gone on for, really since the Second World War.

• 1:20:50Tucker Carlson?

  And I think, like so many things that are bad. And if you say that, they're like, oh, you're for Hitler. No, I'm very anti-Hitler. Hitler was anti-Christian and a murderer, destroyed his own people and lots of other peoples, including Jews. And I'm totally opposed to all of that. But it's just a fact that since the Second World War, these trends, which are now flowering, and we can see that it's the end of something, they began then. They began in 1945. What is that? And I have a lot of thoughts about that. But one is that... Our leaders globally in the West took away from World War II one big lesson, and that's that any white-majority Christian country is a threat to world peace, to the order.

• 1:21:32Tucker Carlson?

  You can't have a majority-white Christian country because Germany, under the Nazis, was majority-white Christian. Now, of course, the Nazis were not a Christian government. They were an anti-Christian government. They killed a lot of priests, but whatever. That has somehow become a kind of unspoken consensus among many of our leaders. In fact, I would say almost all of our leaders. They're embarrassed of tons of white people in the same place. "Look at that picture. That doesn't look like America." And none of us have ever said anything like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You're attacking people on the basis of their race? Isn't that what you say you hate, that we're all against? But you're doing it. Why don't you stop that immediately?" No one has ever had the balls to say that.

• 1:22:15Tucker Carlson?

  And so it's kind of proceeded apace and it's become not just a consensus, but like the reason for everything. And the result of that is the total destruction of the white world. And there was a white world. There was a Chinese world too, and an Indian world, and an Arab world. There are lots of different worlds, or different peoples in the country. And I know them all, and I like them all, actually, because I've been to all their countries. I've never been to a country I didn't like. I've never merited in a culture I didn't think was interesting and kind of cool, even though it's not mine. You know, I am not. I'm the opposite of like, small-minded person. I'm like, really for diversity, actually. I've really enjoyed it a lot.

• 1:22:57Tucker Carlson?

  If I went, you know, I always spend a lot of time in the Middle East, and I enjoy it because it's Middle Eastern, it's not American. So like, you can love different cultures, and I sincerely, ask anyone who travels with me, I sincerely do, without wanting to destroy the one you grew up in. And like, if other people are trying to destroy it on the basis of race, which they are... It's totally within bounds to be like, what are you doing and why? And that's what immigration is, of course. It's not an effort to make our economy better. And you see these people say, well, you know, which is true. This is true, but you'll hear people say of mass migration. Well, it's an effort for the ownership class to access cheaper labor by globalizing everything.

• 1:23:40Tucker Carlson?

  And that, of course, as a matter of economics, is absolutely true, but it's not the whole story. When you start importing people from countries that are, you know, badly educated and socially dysfunctional and totally incompatible culturally with yours, are you really doing that so you can like reap their cheap labor? Are we importing Somalis so we can like set them to work in factories for half the rate that Native Americans? No, we're not. They're not working in factories, not working at all in a lot of cases. They're unstate and federal aid. I'm not attacking them. I'm just saying I'm attacking the motives of the people who imported them against the will of the American population. I mean, there was never a groundswell. Let's bring in 50 million people illegally and put them on welfare. No one ever asked for that.

• 1:24:24Tucker Carlson?

  No one ever wanted that. So why did they do it? Well, they did it not to make the country richer. They didn't. They did it to make it non-majority white. So that is an act by definition of racial hostility, of racism. And they've never been called out on it because somehow they, the first thing they did was take the moral high ground and occupy it and start yelling at everybody about how they're bad, you're racist. Shut up racist, shut up Nazi. And they so thoroughly intimidated the population into not saying anything that they just destroyed it. And then a lot of the whites, who really always the ones that I blame, since I am white,

• 1:25:03Tucker Carlson?

  and you just sort of instinctively blame people who look like you, just a fact, that was telling you, you hate the other. That's the opposite of what I've noticed about people. I feel like people are much more open minded about the other. I've been in probably every country in the world and people do something outrageous and I'll be like, oh, that's kind of interesting. I'm much less judgmental. But when someone who looks like me, who grew up in the same country I did, does something wrong, I have no grace for that person. I judge them and it was the whites who did this. Sorry, it's just a fact. And they're the ones who get hysterical when you point it out. And when I go to the UK, which is a lot because I have family there.

• 1:25:42Tucker Carlson?

  As I said, I'm going in two days. I never have been in an argument with any Pakistani or Bangladeshi or Indian and ever or Arab in London, ever. It's all, they're always like, "Yeah, okay, you've got views and actually agree with a lot of my views, honestly." Just, I just have noticed this, okay? It's always the rich whites who get way up in your face about it. In fact, I had a speech at a very, very famous school, one of the most famous schools in England.

• 1:26:15Tucker Carlson?

  I had a speech on Sunday night. One of the, someone at the school asked me to do it. Of course I will do it for free. I'm just, I was there and so I would do it. And he, I just got a text saying, "No, you've been canceled because they don't want you on campus because you're too dangerous." This is like a very famous white school.

• 1:26:32Tucker Carlson?

  They're the ones who were mad. They're the ones who are touchy about it. And the reason they're mad and they're touchy is because, and this is such a familiar phenomenon, they've turned the hate against them inward on themselves. And people who hate themselves are the least trustworthy and most dangerous people in the world. If someone hates himself, he'll definitely hate you. There's just no doubt. There's no doubt. I've watched people carefully for many years and that is, that is the group that I fear, the people who've internalized the hate and turned it inward. And we have whole countries like that and whole leadership classes. Like the very familiar image of the angry, menopausal, liberal politician screaming at people about their sexism and racism.

• 1:27:17Tucker Carlson?

  What are we really looking at? We're looking at someone who hates herself, you know? Has had no leadership in her life, no security, no love, no real relationships. She's miserable and she's turning that misery outward and projecting it on the population. And that's, a lot of our leadership classes like that.

• 1:27:38Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry for such a long answer, but I really feel it.

• 1:27:44Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. Well, I mean,

• 1:27:49Shawn Ryan?

  where does it derive from?

• 1:27:53Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's a really interesting question and the and the short answer is I don't know. You know, I mean, I'm as I think I've made clear in the in our conversation, I'm I'm much more likely now in the past couple of years to think about the spiritual dimension of

• 1:28:10Shawn Ryan?

  Who wins?

• 1:28:11Tucker Carlson?

  Human affairs.

• 1:28:12Shawn Ryan?

  What is the motive?

• 1:28:14Tucker Carlson?

  Nobody wins. That's that's kind of what I've arrived at is that and that actually is what made me think more deeply about Christianity and about the spiritual realm and read the Bible.

• 1:28:26Tucker Carlson?

  And it's really changed my life was not because I noticed how decent Christians were to each other. I wish I could say that was true. But what changed my life was watching the how American politics had changed from an argument about how best to serve the population. You had two sides, you know, having this debate. Well, I think we should raise taxes. No, I think we should lower them. But but the goal was at least purportedly the same on both sides. Like, how do we do the best job we can for the people we represent that we lead for our people? And that was always the conversation. You had these kind of amazing, interesting arguments. And I literally did it for a living. I was on a show called Crossfire. It was right and left. And we would debate what was best for the country. And the debates were dumb and

• 1:29:10Tucker Carlson?

  whatever. It was cable news. So of course, it was at a pretty low level. But I never one time questioned the goal was like, what's good for America? And then about 10 years ago, the nature of the debate changed. Also, you know, these issues that like immigration was one, the trans thing, the gay thing was another. And I was like, how in the world could that possibly be good for anybody? It's not good for the people you say you're for. It's not good for everyone else. Like, I see only destruction abolish the police or defund the police. That's one of the things that convinced me. It's like, OK, if you believe that George Floyd was beaten to death by a racist cop, he OD'd on fentanyl. But even if you believed

• 1:29:52Tucker Carlson?

  he was beaten to death by a racist cop, and the biggest problem that black people have in America is racist cops, racist white cops making $47,000 a year, they're the problem.

• 1:30:03Tucker Carlson?

  It's not the billionaires that are the problem. It's the union cop is the problem. Okay, okay, all right. But even if you believe that, let's say you really believe that. And let's say, you know, you really, your life's goal was to help black people, which I'm not against. It's a fine goal. Help black people. How long would it take you if you really wanted to help black people to get to the solution? Defund the police? You would never arrive at that solution because obviously, defunding the police is not going to help black people or white people or Asian people or any people. It's not going to help people. Make the police better, maybe, but get rid of the police? Like, how does that work? How is that possibly going to wind up improving anybody's life? And of course, the answer was it can't.

• 1:30:48Tucker Carlson?

  And it didn't. And but it was never going to. So I watched that. And of course, I'm opposed to it, you know, for the normal conservative reasons. We need police. But even the fact that we were having that conversation was a signal to me that this is a very different thing than I'm used to. This is people advocating and not just like the underclass. By the way, black people played no role in that conversation at all. No one ever asked black people what they thought. It was just like eight of their designated representatives on MSNBC were like, I'm a black person. Here's. But no one actually asked black people what they thought because no one cared. The point was never to make anyone's life better. It was to destroy the country and the people who live in it.

• 1:31:31Tucker Carlson?

  It was purely destructive. I really brooded on this because I had to write the script every night. So I was like constantly in my head thinking like, what are we watching? Don't be distracted by the bullshit. Like, what is this? And I concluded, because there was no other conclusion, that the point was destruction. That was the point. So I have always thought since I was a child that it's a binary. There are creators and destroyers. A synonym for this is good and evil. God creates, his opponents destroy. God created the earth and the heavens. His opponents destroy them. It's that simple. I mean, it's complex in many ways, but fundamentally, it's that simple. It's creation, destruction. And I've always been for creation, always. I believe in procreation.

• 1:32:16Tucker Carlson?

  I believe in impregnating women. It's awesome. I believe in building cabins. Awesome. I like to create. I like what my dogs have, puppies. So.

• 1:32:28Tucker Carlson?

  I saw this right away and I was like, this is not a political debate. This is a spiritual struggle. Creation versus destruction. And that totally changed my life in every way. That really set off a chain reaction in me that changed me and changed my understanding of the world, changed my sense of my own purpose in the world.

• 1:32:49Shawn Ryan?

  How long have you been thinking this?

• 1:32:51Tucker Carlson?

  Since Memorial Day 2020.

• 1:32:55Shawn Ryan?

  What happened on Memorial Day in 2020?

• 1:32:56Tucker Carlson?

  George Floyd riots. And I'd covered, you know, a lot of stuff and been a lot of places and seen chaos and stuff. And one thing that I have concluded that I just noticed as a kid, watch, you know, Katrina or in Iraq or in Pakistan where you see like things fall apart is that everyone, you know, was so scared of war and violence and all that stuff, but that the scare and oppression, you know, I was always an Orwell fan, so I was like, you know, Big Brother's the scariest thing. No, the scariest thing is chaos. Chaos is the scariest thing, chaos. And then later in life, when I read the Old Testament, I was like, God brought order out of chaos, of course.

• 1:33:39Tucker Carlson?

  I didn't even know, I mean, I'm Episcopalian, so I didn't really know anything. But chaos, I just noticed it because I was in a couple, several times in the middle of what was chaos, was chaos. No one in charge. You know, kids with rifles are in charge. They have no goals. They have no program. They're not, there's no ideology. My whole life, I've been understanding history through the lens of ideology. There are these revolutionary peasants in Peru and they're Cinderella, Luminoso, and they're revolutionary peasants in Vietnam and they're the Vietcong. Like, everything was about like the idea. And what I didn't realize until I saw it in person was, no, it's not that. It's much, it's atavistic. It's much deeper than that. It's more primitive. It's more fundamental than that.

• 1:34:24Tucker Carlson?

  It's the struggle in the universe is between order and chaos. And I'm on the side of order, not on the side of repression. Order is now a synonym for repression, which I hate. Because I believe in the human soul and the dignity of every person. But chaos is the worst thing. And I saw people in my country fomenting chaos for its own sake. I don't know if they're intentionally evil. Probably not, most of us aren't. But they were tools of spiritual forces doing that. And I instantly recognized this was totally different from everything I've been covering and thinking about, writing about, talking about on TV for 30 years. This was a new thing. And that just changed it. When that chaos broke out in Minneapolis, I'm not from Minneapolis.

• 1:35:08Tucker Carlson?

  I have no attachment to Minneapolis. Yes, there are a lot of Swedes in Minneapolis, or were, I think they've left. But I saw this for what it was. And I was so bothered by it that I actually went to the convenience store where George Floyd tried to pass the phony $20 bill and went to the site where he was killed and wandered all around by myself. I literally landed there, went by myself, didn't do a story on it or anything. I just want to see it. And what I saw was what I expected to see a year later. It was a year after it happened. In 2021, I went and I saw a place that had never recovered and never would recover. And that, to me, was proof of what I suspected, which was the point was destruction. The point was not rebirth. They always tell you it's rebirth. We need to tear it down in order to rebuild it. They never rebuild it because they don't want to, because that's not the point.

• 1:35:54Tucker Carlson?

  And people who want to build, just go ahead and build. And people who want to destroy, go ahead and destroy. And they're in totally different camps. They're on opposing sides. It's literally that simple. Anyone who tells you we need to knock it down in order to build it again is lying to you and probably to himself. He may think that that's not his goal. His goal is to destroy. Because Satan's job is to destroy. You and everything around you, everything good, everything beautiful, everything orderly, everything warm and loving and fraternal, everything honest, is to destroy. Destroyed loyalty, destroyed beauty, all the things that are virtues will be destroyed in that all-consuming fire of destruction. And I just didn't know that. I was thinking in totally different terms, political terms, stupid terms, childish terms. And I didn't even know it.

• 1:36:39Tucker Carlson?

  I didn't even know how dumb I was, because you never do.

• 1:36:47Tucker Carlson?

  Holy shit. So that was a moment for me, and I was, the beauty of my job then and now is there's a lot of, not a lot, not enough, but there's some contemplative time, or, because if you have to talk about stuff or present an opinion, part of the process is like thinking about, what is my opinion? And now that I have no pressure on me from anywhere, I have zero pressure on me at all, I don't have a boss, I don't care about what people who hate me think necessarily, and if they have a good point, I try to listen to it, but their purpose is not to instruct, it's to destroy. But anyway, now that I have no pressure on me,

• 1:37:30Tucker Carlson?

  I have more contemplative time, and I have a freer mind, and I think I can see things more clearly. I hope I can, always with the knowledge that we go really off track and don't know it, including me, but I, I think everything I've said is true. I believe it's true, anyway.

• 1:37:49Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think that this agenda that you're talking about, do you think this comes from nations, governments, humans, or do you think that this is spiritual?

• 1:38:03Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's clearly spiritual. I mean, really, every big thing that we do is, I mean, if you believe what every culture has ever left any record of what it believes, has believed, there is an ongoing unseen struggle between light and darkness, order and chaos, destruction and creation, good and evil, God and Satan, like every, there's no culture that hasn't believed that ever, ever, except Western culture since the end of the Second World War, where it's absurd delusion about God is dead, but God's not dead, and everyone has thought that, and everyone's thought that because it's obviously true, and the signs are all around us. So if you believe that, and I didn't believe

• 1:38:45Tucker Carlson?

  this five or six years ago, I may have told you I believed it, but I definitely didn't really believe it at all. I didn't live like I believed it, I didn't think like I believed it, but now I do, because I've seen a lot, I've seen more than most people, and that's my conclusion. And if you believe that, then...

• 1:39:06Tucker Carlson?

  You know, you know that in the end, the good guys win. There's a lot of drama between here and there. Probably won't live to see it, but it doesn't matter. You do your part.

• 1:39:19Tucker Carlson?

  But definitely, it makes a lot of the details not unimportant, but it sets them in context. And it definitely gets you out of this pointless loop in your head of like, shock, outrage, I can't, you know, into the kind of social media

• 1:39:39Tucker Carlson?

  dialogue that goes on inside your own skull where you're, you know, it's like point, counterpoint, well, this person did this. I used to believe in that person. I can't believe he's betrayed me. It's like, again, for the fifth time, what did you think it was? What did you think it was? Did you find yourself believing that a human being was going to save your soul and like fix human sin? Who's the asshole? You, you believe that.

• 1:40:05Tucker Carlson?

  And I no longer do believe that at all. And I know how flawed I am. I mean, I have a keen sense of that. I'm reminded of it every day. And so how can I expect someone else to be like good and true and pure and never bend the knee and always do the right thing? Like, no, we're all imperfect, but we're, you know, some of us are at least trying with the knowledge that we're gonna fail and, you know, humiliate ourselves from time to time. But I just, I'm not shocked at all anymore. But what is it? The destruction of whites? I don't know. I really don't know. But tell me how that's not real. It is real.

• 1:40:47Tucker Carlson?

  And what's so hilarious is they're like, one of the reasons I started thinking about this was,

• 1:40:53Tucker Carlson?

  you know, I hosted this TV show. I still host a version of something like that, I guess. And so in that process, as you well know, you get a lot of numbers. Like you're an American, so you're trained to make decisions based on the data, have your perceptions shaped by science, you know, all these like, you know, things you grew up with. And so it's always like, hey, can you pull the numbers for me on this? Like, who lives here? Do we know? It's such a big country and... I've been all around it and feel like I know it pretty well, but I don't really know it that well. No one knows America. It's like the CIA. No one person in CIA knows what everybody is doing at CIA because it's compartmentalized. America, same thing. So I would pull these numbers and like, I never was interested really in demographics.

• 1:41:38Tucker Carlson?

  I'm still not that interested, but I would look at these numbers and it's like, holy shit. This country's changing fast. On the most basic level, who lives here?

• 1:41:47Tucker Carlson?

  You know, like this, this town was 90% white. Now it's 60% Hispanic and that took 20 years. Has there ever been anything that moved that fast? Like, human populations change very slowly. You do blood tests and the people who live 20 miles from Stonehenge and then you do excavations at Stonehenge and you find that they're related.

• 1:42:06Tucker Carlson?

  So what do you, what do you think? So, but I would see this and I'd be like, wow, this country's really changing. And then I would see, but I still wasn't like hyped up about it or anything, but I was like, wow, that's like kind of crazy. This is happening so fast. And then I would see people like Chuck Schumer stand up and be like, the one thing you're not allowed to say is that the great replacement theory is real. You're an anti Semite. And my first thought was, what, what are the anti Semite? What does that have to do with it? I guess I'm too literal or slow or something. And I'm like, it's nothing to do with Jews. It's not anti Semitic, but like, how was that a conspiracy theory? That's, here are the numbers, dude. And there's you on the floor of the Senate saying, I can't wait till this country's minority white.

• 1:42:43Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so you're telling me you can't wait for something to happen. And when I say, what are you talking about? You scream at me and call me a bigot and tell me that I'm a conspiracy theorist for noticing what you just bragged about. You don't have to be a genius, and I'm definitely not a genius, to say, what the hell was that? And that's when I, and then of course I travel something in Australia and like, oh my gosh, New Zealand or Canada. What is, and again, to answer your question in one sense, I don't know exactly,

• 1:43:14Tucker Carlson?

  but this is the biggest thing, just biggest fact, biggest change to happen to global population ever in recorded history that we know of. And nobody mentions it because they're too intimidated that they'll be like called David Duke or something.

• 1:43:36Shawn Ryan?

  So I mean, what you're saying basically is the white race is destroying itself from the inside, just like the country is destroying itself from the inside.

• 1:43:43Tucker Carlson?

  Well, just no, I mean, look, again, I hope I'm being honest about my lack of understanding. I don't understand the full outlines of this, but you-

• 1:43:52Shawn Ryan?

  What does it look like if the white race is destroyed?

• 1:43:57Tucker Carlson?

  You know, I don't know, but why would you ever want to destroy any race on purpose? Um, I mean, we had, you know, Europeans and the United States had a lot to do with the destruction of the American Indian. It wasn't all intentional. Disease played the primary role, but there was also like a sense that we can't have the whole continent if people are still occupying it. We gotta move them and keep them from roaming around and pen them up in Oklahoma or whatever. And that was intentional. And what was not all intentional, again, disease played the primary role, but there was intent there.

• 1:44:35Tucker Carlson?

  And why did my ancestors do that, Europeans do that? Because they wanted the continent and there were people there. And that story's pretty familiar. Like, that's the story of the Mongols sweeping across the step. That's the story of the Normans showing up in England. That's the story of every invasion and rape and, you know, that's the story. Replace your genetics with mine, rape your wife. My Viking ancestors participated in that. Sorry. Okay, so we know that. That's just like a feature of history because it's a feature of human nature. Is that what this is? I don't know. But it's never been more effective than what's happening now. And it's, as far as I know, never happened with

• 1:45:17Tucker Carlson?

  the active enthusiastic complicity of the people being replaced. I've never seen anything like that. It's incredible. I guess I shouldn't be surprised because people do commit suicide and they are convinced that they have to kill themselves. But the pure hate it shows is what still stuns me. How could leaders hate their own people so much? And as a father, I don't understand that. And I'm really bothered by that. If you have people in your care-

• 1:45:50Tucker Carlson?

  Your only real job is to love them. And we can argue about what love looks like and how it manifests itself. But you can't hate them. You cannot hate them. And our leaders have hated us with homicidal hatred.

• 1:46:03Shawn Ryan?

  How many of our...

• 1:46:03Tucker Carlson?

  Homicidal hatred. It's not just, "I want to get rich and like, you know, steal all your shit." It's like, "No, I want you to die." And they couldn't have been clearer about it. I don't know how I didn't see it, but the results make it irrefutable. Irrefutable. The country I grew up in, I was born in May of 1969. Tell me the differences between America in May of 69, months before we landed on the moon, or whatever, and now. And the main difference is a completely different group of people live here. What happened to the old people? How did that happen? It was intentional. Of course it was. They said it out loud, the President of the United States. And I can't wait till this...

• 1:46:45Tucker Carlson?

  He's just like, again, going back to the first part of this conversation. How is it that you see things right in front of you and yet don't see them? I don't know. It's a spell.

• 1:46:58Tucker Carlson?

  But I want to break free from it.

• 1:47:04Tucker Carlson?

  Do you ever feel that in your life? Like somebody's just right there and you couldn't see it?

• 1:47:08Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:47:09Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:10Shawn Ryan?

  All the time. And then I get pissed at myself.

• 1:47:13Tucker Carlson?

  Of course, me too. Or just bewildered, like, "Gosh, I flatter myself. I'm such a keen observer."

• 1:47:20Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 1:47:22Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, you know, you say that the politicians hate us. I believe you. I think the same thing. I don't think any of them... Can't say any of them. We talked about Eli Crane earlier.

• 1:47:34Tucker Carlson?

  For sure. Oh, I know.

• 1:47:35Shawn Ryan?

  Saw you had Tim Burchett on. I like him, too.

• 1:47:38Tucker Carlson?

  Love Tim Burchett.

• 1:47:40Tucker Carlson?

  I love... I love a couple of them. I don't want to wreck their lives by telling you who they are, but there are a couple I talk to and love and think are really decent people caught in a maelstrom. Caught...

• 1:47:53Shawn Ryan?

  You know, though, I mean...

• 1:47:57Shawn Ryan?

  I thought about running in 2020, or not 2020, uh, last election and in like, I really thought about it. I was like, fuck, man, I'm.

• 1:48:06Tucker Carlson?

  Here?

• 1:48:07Shawn Ryan?

  I, yeah, I thought about, I thought about running for Congress or so, I didn't even, I was just like, somebody's gotta get involved.

• 1:48:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:14Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and I called, you know,

• 1:48:19Shawn Ryan?

  the two people I just named that I, the only fucking people I trust in there. And, um,

• 1:48:27Shawn Ryan?

  I, I called some other people too, but the general consensus was like, you're not gonna,

• 1:48:33Shawn Ryan?

  you're not gonna have any impact.

• 1:48:35Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:48:36Shawn Ryan?

  They know they don't have any fucking impact.

• 1:48:38Tucker Carlson?

  And they're so frustrated and unhappy, so unhappy, so unhappy.

• 1:48:45Tucker Carlson?

  No, it's an, it's a night, it's a nightmare. I, I've known people at all positions of, all positions of leadership and the best ones are the most frustrated.

• 1:48:57Shawn Ryan?

  They leave.

• 1:48:58Tucker Carlson?

  They leave, they leave. Yeah, they leave or they're, make accommodations that destroy them. There's real battles within us, right? So, don't be destroyed. Don't, don't make the trade. Power for your integrity. Never do that. It's never worth it. I know people who've done that. I know.

• 1:49:17Shawn Ryan?

  That's the trap that we were talking about earlier.

• 1:49:19Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's the, right. Fall down, worship me and all this will be yours. I mean, that's the bargain. That's the bargain and every person faces that. Every person faces that, usually a lot. And, but, and I know a million people who've taken the deal and I know a few of them really well, like intimately well. And I know it sounds like moral, and I've certainly done that a million times in my life. You make accommodations because you think it's worth it or whatever, you know, I'm not being judgmental. But I know a couple of people intimately well who've done it in a big way, you know, big accommodation, big reward. All this will be yours. And I can say from firsthand knowledge that that is not a good trade at all.

• 1:50:04Tucker Carlson?

  And those people are tormented. They're in hell on earth. And I'm not guessing at all about that. And uh, it's, it's really sad. They're captives. They're absolutely captives and you can tell who's free.

• 1:50:19Shawn Ryan?

  You feel bad for them?

• 1:50:21Tucker Carlson?

  Oh my gosh, yes.

• 1:50:22Shawn Ryan?

  Why? They fucking sold us out.

• 1:50:24Tucker Carlson?

  They're living in hell because they're, because they're in bondage.

• 1:50:27Shawn Ryan?

  They sold you out. They sold your kids out.

• 1:50:29Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I've certainly been sold out a million times.

• 1:50:31Shawn Ryan?

  Sold your wife out. They sold all your friends out. They sold the whole fucking country.

• 1:50:35Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, of course.

• 1:50:35Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you feel bad for them?

• 1:50:38Tucker Carlson?

  Because imagine being that man. You know, the person you feel sorry, sorry is for in the whole New Testament is, is Peter. Jesus is like, you're gonna, you're gonna, imagine, okay, so the family that I grew up in, which was not, you know, conventional at all, but we had a very simple moral code in my family. Very simple, the most simple was the mafia code. You know, some things were discouraged but allowed. You wind up banging your assistant, don't do that, bye. You know, things happen, you cheat on your taxes, okay, don't get caught. Betray people you love who love you. That's it. That, that is not acceptable in any way. Betrayal of someone you love is the worst thing you could ever do. True betrayal.

• 1:51:23Tucker Carlson?

  Denial of a person you love. And that was just beaten into us. I mean, we never even questioned that. That was the center of our family, that belief. You never, you never betray. I remember my father saying, don't commit a triple murder, but if you ever do, like call me. You know, we'll get you to oblivia, you know, or whatever. And um, that was just like, it couldn't have been clearer. So then you read the New Testament, it's like, Jesus is like to Peter, his guy who loves him more than anyone loves him. Jesus loves Peter most. And he's like, you're gonna betray me three times. Betray you? Yes. And then Peter does it to a girl. This little girl is like, don't you know him? And Peter's like, I've never seen the guy before. And I remember the first time I read that, I was like, you are disgusting.

• 1:52:08Tucker Carlson?

  You are dis, you betrayed your friend? Like I just, in my mind, I think whenever I see someone do something bad, I'm like, yeah, I'm so glad I didn't do that, but I know my, I could do anything. I'm just being honest. Like I don't, I don't trust myself. I would never betray someone I love. I've never done it, I never would do it. And then you see that and you're just like, imagine living with that. Imagine. Betraying somebody. I mean, I've been denounced this week by like 20 people I've helped. And you sort of toggle, like in a couple of cases, like really helped. And you toggle back and forth in your head between being like outraged, like, how could you? You know, all the things I did for you.

• 1:52:50Tucker Carlson?

  I had you on my show. I helped you in your divorce, or whatever it is. In the case of one guy, I sold your schlocky books because I felt sorry for you. And now you're calling me a Nazi and you're like, oh, I'm so mad. And then really, I mean this, I'm not just saying it. I really ended up feeling like, oh, how would you like to be that guy? How would you like to be that guy? Like, your wife knows. Your wife is, she's never gonna enjoy sex with you again. You know, a woman can't respect a man like that. Losing the respect of your wife, oh, man. It's, your wife's pissed at you that, you know, whatever. Your wife doesn't respect you? Rather be dead. I mean that in my heart, I mean, I'd rather be dead.

• 1:53:33Tucker Carlson?

  Because that, a wife's respect for her husband is the basis of a family. If you could distill it to one thing that makes a happy family, happy children, it's a wife's respect for her husband. Period. Lots of elements in the stew. But the stock, the base of it, is a wife's respect for her husband. Now, of course, it's not given, it's earned. But it's the basis of everything. And if a man, you know, weakness is very hard for women to forgive. Real weakness, not physical, you know, moral weakness. Being a worm, man, they know. They're like animals, so they know. And they don't lie to themselves.

• 1:54:16Tucker Carlson?

  Like, a woman knows what a woman knows, and you can't dissuade her from it because she can smell it. She doesn't doubt her own instincts on anything. Woman's intuition. Is the realest thing there is. And the number one thing they don't like, and have every reason not to like, is a man who is weak. And she will not respect that man. And period. Can't make her, actually can't really make women do anything. We, we learn. And which is great. That's what I like about him, but.

• 1:54:43Tucker Carlson?

  That I was thinking that-

• 1:54:44Shawn Ryan?

  That's what I like about him.

• 1:54:45Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, you have to, you have to really lead. If you want them to respect you, you know, you, you have to be better, actually. No one wants to hear that, but it's just true. You can't make them respect you, you can't beat them into respecting you. Shut up, respect me! No, it doesn't work that way. So that's why, that's why the relationship between men and women is so compelling. It's like the movie that never ends. It's like a cliffhanger at every turn. It's like so complex and interesting and rewarding. And it's like, it's the main source of joy and fascination in, in life. But this one person, I'm thinking, I'm not gonna name him, but specifically, I literally was like blown away that this guy called me a Nazi. And then, of course, it's like a career of calling me a Nazi.

• 1:55:29Tucker Carlson?

  And then I was like, oh, at what cost to you? I mean, in three months, no one will remember. Why were they calling him a Nazi? He doesn't seem like a Nazi. No one will care. No one ever cares about this stuff over time. We can't remember. You hear people's names and you're like, weren't you in some kind of sex scandal 10 years ago? No one can remember. But a man who loses, who behaves that way in a dishonorable, degraded way in front of his wife, who betrays someone for advantage, like she'll never forget that, ever. And he has to live with that. And I don't have, of all the sins I've committed, and there are many, I could write books about them, that's just not one of them. I'm never gonna do that. And I'm not being pious or self-righteous, but it's just true.

• 1:56:13Tucker Carlson?

  And so I do feel sorry for people who've taken that deal. It is not worth it. And the other thing that you have learned, and that I've learned, if you're ever successful in any way, and all of a sudden, like, the things that you wanted, you can have, like, I really want this thing, and then you get the thing, and it's like Christmas morning, the second you open the present, it's like, ah, kind of a letdown. You know? The, the best part of Christmas morning is before you open the presents, what's beneath the wrapping? Holy shit, I can't, you know, is it, is it a bike? Like, you don't know. It's totally compelling, and the second you know, it's a lot like an orgasm. It's like, oh, man, I worked hard to get here, but, huh. It's like, it's why the French call it le petit mort, you know, the little death.

• 1:56:57Tucker Carlson?

  Because it's a letdown and everything in life is that. Everything material is that. And so you get this thing that you thought you wanted, whether it's the new bike or control over a nation or adulation or vindication or billions of dollars. And you then you sit there alone in your living room and you're like, eh, kind of wasn't what I thought it was going to be. That is true. And the one good thing about being successful is you learn that, you know? That's like the first thing you learn. This is what I got? People kissing my ass or a summer house? It's like, okay. I mean, it's not against any of that. It's, you know, great to be respected, great to have a summer house, but like, it's not worth having your wife not respect you. Nothing is worth that. Ever. Everyone needs to know that.

• 1:57:40Tucker Carlson?

  People will like happily go die, you know, to win the respect of their wives. And they should. They should. It's worth it.

• 1:57:50Tucker Carlson?

  Why did you decide to have Nick Fontes on? I thought you guys hated each other. Well, I of course hated Nick Fontes and he, well, going back to what I was just saying, he criticized my dad, also criticized my wife and my son, but um. I don't know much about him. Well, I was super pissed at him. He was 27 and he criticized my dad. Why were you pissed at him? Because he criticized your dad? Not that I criticized my dad. I'm his oldest son. Those are just the rules. Can't, can't stand that. My father was a flawed man. What did he? But a great man. Oh, CIA guy and he did all this bad shit. He was involved in Iran contra. And some of it was true, you know, sort of true or something true enough, I guess. So that made it worse. It made me mad or whatever he said about my dad, but I just, my father just died and

• 1:58:35Tucker Carlson?

  I was like, I can't, I, I'm, that just drives me absolutely insane. So, and I feel an obligation to be mad about it because it's my dad. Those are the rules. So I attacked him and then I called him and I was like, look, I don't know you, but I want you to know why. I always want to tell people why I don't like them and I want to do it right to their face. And I always call people and just say, I'm going to attack you or I did attack you and I want you to hear why from me.

• 1:59:03Tucker Carlson?

  I just did that yesterday to somebody. Anyway, I always do that. And so I called Nick Fuentes and I said, I want you to know why I attacked you. Attacked you because you criticized my father. And I'm just never gonna accept that. My father was a great man and flawed, but a great man, like a literally a great man. And I'm never gonna accept that. And he, to his credit, was like, I get that. I get that. So, but I still didn't like him. I'm not friends with him now, but I, because of that, I got a lot of input from people like, I don't know that much about Nick Fuentes. I'm 56. I don't, I don't like the internet, so I don't really know that much. I've seen clips. He's very talented. I know that. But I'm not an expert on that at all.

• 1:59:48Tucker Carlson?

  And I got calls from a lot of people, including some very influential people who know a lot about Nick Fuentes. And they're like, this kid is the single most influential figure among young white men. And not just white, actually. Is that true? Well, it's definitely true. I mean, it was true last month. I don't know if it's true now. I mean, everything changes, who knows? But that was definitely my impression, and I think it's right. And in the subsequent weeks, I've asked a million different people, Nick Fuentes, and like, yes, he's extremely influential among young men. Wow, how young? What age group? 20s, teens and 20s, college students, high school students, college students, just out of college, can't find a job. They can't find jobs, right? A lot of this, by the way, a lot of the frustration is economic,

• 2:00:34Tucker Carlson?

  which no one wants to talk about or seems invited to talk about. It's not about the Jews. It's about the economy. And it's about the betrayal that young men feel when they go through all these hoops and get all these stupid degrees and find out they're worth nothing. And they're in $300,000 in debt and like, I did what you told me to do and I'm fucked. So I'm mad at you. And why wouldn't they be? They have every right to be. That's my personal opinion, but it's just true. Anyway, and a lot of those men watch Nick Fuentes. So I was like, Nick Fuentes is one of those figures that everybody, like Putin, that's why I interviewed Putin. Everyone talks about this person, but nobody, I believe, and one of my missions, this is not everyone's mission, it just happens to be mine at this stage of my life, is I want to hear what people think.

• 2:01:18Tucker Carlson?

  And I want to give people a chance to speak for themselves. Because I think every person, from Idi Amin to Mother Teresa, has an inherent right to tell their own story. And you can disagree with the story, and you can doubt the story, and you can do whatever you want. But to say they don't have a right to tell their story, I just reject that. I disagree. I disagree. And I feel like, it's not my only mission in life, but that's one of my beliefs, and I've done what I can, my limited attention and means, to like, give people a place to tell their story. Why, why should people on the internet have a right to define anybody with two-minute clips, and that person doesn't have a right to tell his own story? I just reject that.

• 2:02:03Tucker Carlson?

  I don't care. I reject that, whether it's Hillary Clinton, or Nick Fuentes, or anyone in between. People have a right to say what they think. And if you want to watch it, don't. So, I just believe that, and I'll never stop believing that. And if they don't have that right, what you're really saying is, other people have a right to speak for someone else. And they don't. They don't. Because we're all created by God, and we all have the right to say what we think. So I believe that. So I was like, if I have Nick Fuentes on, obviously, probably some people will criticize me, just as they do with Putin, you know, "You love Nick Fuentes! You agree with everything he says." Nope. I've interviewed war criminals in Liberia. I've interviewed cannibals.

• 2:02:48Tucker Carlson?

  I kind of liked them, just being honest. I kind of like everybody I interview.

• 2:02:51Shawn Ryan?

  You guys break bread together?

• 2:02:52Tucker Carlson?

  Me and the cannibals? No. And by the way, I, this was in Africa, and I did not lecture them about cannibalism, which I'm totally opposed to. But anyway, so I did, and, and it was really interesting. And I, I try not to lecture people just in general, because I don't think it's, I don't like being lectured, at all. And I don't think most people do. And I think the purpose of lecturing people usually is self-aggrandizing. The point of lecturing, you know, "Sean Ryan, you're a bad person! Unlike me, I'm a great person!"

• 2:03:29Tucker Carlson?

  I don't have the need to convince people I'm a great person at all. I just don't feel that need. They can decide for themselves. And I feel like that's a really dishonest way to interview people. You're using them as a man uses a prostitute for his own pleasure. So I'm using you to make a statement about myself. I'm not doing that. I don't need to do it. I don't want to do it, and I'm not doing it. So I'm not going to lecture Putin about his war crimes. You can read about Putin all you want. I want to hear what Putin says. And I took that exact same approach with Nick Fuentes. And I knew there would be, you know, an outcry or whatever. Probably understated it a little bit. But, you know, not up to me. But my conscience is clear.

• 2:04:10Tucker Carlson?

  One of the only parts that kind of bothered me, but now it amuses me, is there was a point in the interview where Nick Fuentes said, really, out of nowhere, "I love Stalin." It's like, Joseph Stalin? And he's like, "Yeah, I love Stalin." I mean, this was not relevant to what we were talking about at all. It just was out of the blue. So I said- Had to get it in there, huh? I guess. He had like a need to tell me he loves Stalin. So I made a snap decision. I said something like, "I don't know what you're talking about. We'll get back to that." And then, of course, I got completely sidetracked and forgotten, didn't get back to it. And I was criticized for taking it back to it. Well, it's fair, I guess. My instinct really was, he's just saying that. He probably doesn't know much about Stalin. Actually, do know a lot about Stalin.

• 2:04:55Tucker Carlson?

  It's like the only thing I studied in college, and I'm interested in the topic. Maybe he does know a lot about Stalin, I don't know. But I do, actually, and I have a lot of thoughts on Stalin. It's a very interesting topic. And people flipped out about that and accused me of loving Stalin. And what I found now find amusing about that is those exact same people were also getting mad at me for questioning the course of the Second World War and the conclusions that we're drawing from it. Now, my main problem with America's involvement in the Second World War was the fact that we sided with Stalin and armed Stalin and made it possible for Stalin to fight that war through a program called Lend-Lease, which was passed, I think, in the fall of 1941 with a unanimous vote

• 2:05:39Tucker Carlson?

  among Democrats in the Congress. And Stalin was the greatest murderer in history by some counts. Stalin Mao, you know, pick one, but Stalin has a good, has a right to be called that and was definitely unchallenged the most prolific murderer of Christians in history, genocider of Christians, of Christians and murderer of priests and the destroyer of churches and like a true enemy of Christianity. Killed tens of millions of Christians and the US government sent him billions and billions, adjusted for inflation, but billions of dollars in cash and clothing and war material and airplanes and tanks and jeeps. I mean, we armed the Red Army. We armed Stalin.

• 2:06:22Tucker Carlson?

  To which people say, well, are you for Hitler? No, I'm totally opposed to Hitler, but I'm never going to accept arming Stalin. I'm just not. Why would I? And these same people were like, well, you had to choose. Well, no. How about we started, we're not arming Stalin. We're also not going to arm Hitler. Why would we do that? You lose all moral authority. You're sending billions to Joseph Stalin of the Ukrainian famine and the Purge Trials and, and all the rest. I don't take you seriously if you arm Stalin. Why would I? It was those exact same people who jumped my shit for being pro-Stalin in this interview with Nick Fuentes. And I'm like, I don't take you seriously.

• 2:07:06Tucker Carlson?

  I'm starting to think you'll say anything to get me to be quiet. And that just made me laugh to myself. I had no one to talk to about this, of course, but I was amused by it. No, I'm very anti-Stalin. That's actually one of the reasons I'm mad at Churchill, because he was closely allied with Stalin. I'm mad at Roosevelt for the same reason. I'm sad about my country's involvement in a war where we sided with Stalin. And I'm bewildered that no one will say that and that anyone who does say that is like anti-American. My family's been here for like 400 years. I'm hardly anti-American. I couldn't be more pro-America. And I'm pro-America because in general, we don't arm Stalin.

• 2:07:46Tucker Carlson?

  And I don't think we should ever arm Stalin again or back Al Qaeda or have the Al Qaeda guy to the White House like the other day. I'm just not for that.

• 2:07:56Tucker Carlson?

  So I guess, long story short, I have concluded through much experience that some of the people screaming at me don't have the moral authority to get my attention.

• 2:08:07Shawn Ryan?

  Good.

• 2:08:08Tucker Carlson?

  Fair.

• 2:08:08Shawn Ryan?

  Good for you.

• 2:08:10Shawn Ryan?

  What did you learn from that interview?

• 2:08:14Tucker Carlson?

  I learned that he's popular for the same reason most people are popular in unmediated media, because he's got a really compelling message, which is like 90% true, or pretty true.

• 2:08:30Shawn Ryan?

  What is his message?

• 2:08:31Tucker Carlson?

  His message is, we've been betrayed by the people who thought we're on our side. We thought these people were for us, they actually sold us out. Well, that's certainly true. Israel has way too much influence over our Congress, obviously. 95% of members of Congress take money from a foreign lobby, AIPAC. Like, how is that defensible? You can, by the way, you could be for Israel, but still be like, what is that? Why is that allowed?

• 2:09:01Shawn Ryan?

  Are there bigger lobby firms than AIPAC?

• 2:09:03Tucker Carlson?

  Well, there are a million lobbies, and not all of them have organizations. You know, I don't think Israel's America's biggest problem. I've never thought that.

• 2:09:13Tucker Carlson?

  But it's certainly America's most insulting problem. It's so insulting to be ordered around by a country of 9 million people when you're the United States. Like, what? It's a totally irrelevant country. Its only relevance is, we promised to protect them, therefore, we're like, involved in all this crap, you fought some of the wars. But if you take that out, and you're just like, hey, you know, good luck, you're great, wish you well, can't wait to go to Jerusalem next summer on vacation, which I have done and hope to do again. But if we've imbued the country with all the significance that is not deserved, there are no resources. It's the size of Maryland, it's got 9 million people. Like, this is a big world, very complicated. And somehow, our Congress and successive White Houses have decided that the only thing that matters is this tiny, irrelevant country. It's not an attack on the country.

• 2:09:57Tucker Carlson?

  I do wish Israel well, I always have, and I still do. But I am pretty offended by that behavior because they're supposed to be representing me and my fentanyl addicted neighbors and they're not. And they don't care at all about Americans, our leadership. Not attacking Israel, I'm talking our leadership. So that's a totally fair position. And that is basically his position. Or that's, he's describing the frustration that normal people feel when they see that. And I'm, good for him. The Jew hate stuff I'm totally opposed to on every level, moral and practical. And I told him that. Whatever. So I'm not going to whine about how people are misrepresenting my views because that's who they are.

• 2:10:39Tucker Carlson?

  But I personally think, big picture, it's always good to get clarity about what people really believe, about what they really care about. We should know. We should know. And maybe you're more for them or more against them, but like, it's the lying that bothers me. So I'd much rather have people just be totally straightforward about what their goals are. I'd love to see what's really in your heart. And I think we're seeing that much more than we did last month. And so for that reason, I'm glad we had the conversation despite the fact, you know, they're attacking my family, like, for real, attacking my family, like, for real. But we'll be fine. A pretty, pretty strong family, so I feel okay about that.

• 2:11:23Tucker Carlson?

  And I feel bad for anyone around me who's been hurt by it. It certainly wasn't my intent, but I do think there's been a real upside, which is clarity. It's better. Like, by the way, the dumbness of these people, that's the other thing that, you know what I really learned is how dumb. One of the reasons that the status quo was bad was because a lot of decisions were being made in, in true secrecy. Like, not only did you not know who made the decision, you couldn't know why, and you were discouraged from talking about, unformed policy questions. You just couldn't know. Shut up! Shut up, Nazi. Okay. The debate that we've had over the last month has risen to the surface a lot of things that were subterranean.

• 2:12:06Tucker Carlson?

  And, I think, as I said, I think that's good. But one of the things we've learned is that the people who are really kind of running America's foreign policy, whether it's Lindsey Graham or whomever, these people are not geniuses at all. Like, they're dumb. They're dumb. They're just mediocre. Jeffrey Epstein is my favorite example. Because Jeffrey Epstein lived his life basically in the shadows, like, you couldn't really know where the money— you still don't know where the money came from, or, like, what's the goal of this? What is this? You can't know, because it's all secret. Classified, national security, da-da-da-da-da. You start to assume that Jeffrey Epstein is this, like, Svengali, and he's, like, he's a genius, and he's controlling everything. And then you read his emails.

• 2:12:48Tucker Carlson?

  He's like a fucking moron from Staten Island who can barely speak English. He's, like, dumb. He is no— he's totally impressed by Harvard. He went to Cooper Union. He's impressed by Harvard because the brand name impresses him. It's like wearing a polo shirt with a horse on. He thinks that's cool. He's totally unsophisticated, actually. And not smart at all. He's crafty, he's got high canine and animal intelligence, but he's not a genius at all. He's a dummy. He's a thug. And that has been, like, kind of amazing to see. His only real advantage is that he's evil. He'll do anything. He's got just no limits at all. Like, you need to kill someone, we'll do that. If we have to, we'll do that.

• 2:13:33Tucker Carlson?

  And that person, the unscrupulous person, does have an advantage, because he's—there are no boundaries, right? So if your goal is to get rich or powerful, you can get there faster if you'll do anything to get there. Doesn't end well, ever. Didn't end well with him. But that's really what I learned, is that the people who are mad at me—

• 2:13:54Tucker Carlson?

  Call me names because that's literally all they can do. Shut up. You can't speak at that event. We don't want you on stage. We're deplatforming you. Okay, I don't care really, but like.

• 2:14:08Shawn Ryan?

  Who's saying that to you?

• 2:14:09Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I mean, every, I mean.

• 2:14:10Shawn Ryan?

  No, I mean, what are.

• 2:14:11Tucker Carlson?

  I don't even wanna go through. I don't wanna make it about me. I'm certainly not oppressed and you haven't impressed my spirit. You could fucking shoot me. I'm not gonna impress my spirit.

• 2:14:20Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, I'm just asking because I still see all over the place. I saw you.

• 2:14:24Tucker Carlson?

  Of course, but I guess all I'm saying is, no, no, I haven't.

• 2:14:28Shawn Ryan?

  You were just with Megyn Kelly and her tour and.

• 2:14:30Tucker Carlson?

  Megyn Kelly is a tough woman, man. She's for real. And I, I mean, she's more for real than people know. I'm not saying she agrees to me on everything. She doesn't. And by the way, she doesn't agree with this. She's like, I don't agree with you. You know, she's like that tough. So let's tell you. But she, you can't make Megyn Kelly take a visit. You just can't. Just won't. Megyn Kelly just absolutely will not. If she, if she agrees, of course she'll agree. But if she doesn't agree, you're not gonna scare her into agreeing. There aren't a ton of people like that. There are some. They're all my friends. Even if I disagree with them, I just love people like that and I want to be around them. She's one of them. No, but what's interesting is not that they've like, like inconvenienced me. They haven't.

• 2:15:15Tucker Carlson?

  It's that they've revealed who they are. So like, once you, they did this with Fuentes. This is the thing I learned is that Fuentes, I didn't know, I didn't know much about him to be honest. Just too old for this shit. I just, it's not my generation, so I just didn't know. But Nick Fuentes first became known freshman year of college, like first month of college. He's a student at BU and he puts something on the internet Twitter or something and basically like, why does Israel control our Congress? Something like that. He's a college freshman and Ben Shapiro, sitting at like command center somewhere. It's like, what? A college student is down on board with the program? Destroy him.

• 2:15:57Tucker Carlson?

  And Ben Shapiro tries to quote, cancel this kid. He's a fucking college student. He's a freshman from Chicago. Rather than just call the guy and be like, "Hey, actually, I saw what you said. I don't like it, but there are reasons that we're allied with Israel and like, it really helps us," or whatever, make your case, whatever your case is. His first instinct was, "This man must be destroyed. He can never have a job in Khan Inc. Some, you know, no one can hire him." And have that work for you, Ben Shapiro? Well, of course, it didn't work at all. Nick Fuentes is way bigger than Ben Shapiro has ever been, way more influential than Ben Shapiro has ever been. You can't cancel an idea. It just does not work. They, "Let's kill Jesus." Okay, how'd that work? World's biggest religion.

• 2:16:42Tucker Carlson?

  It just doesn't work. And any wise person knows that, so the only way, liberals used to say this, they don't believe it apparently anymore, but the only way to stop bad ideas is by countering them with good ideas. You want to defeat lies? Tell the truth. It's literally that simple. And as if I needed to be reminded of that, the last month, I don't think a single person has ever made the case that I'm wrong, that Nick Fuentes is wrong, the Jew hatred stuff is wrong. Period. And I said that. The white hatred, black hatred, Jew hatred, Malaysian hatred, Bedouin hatred, it's all wrong. I believe that as much as I believe anything. Okay.

• 2:17:22Tucker Carlson?

  But the rest of it, his analysis, which is actually smart and in a lot of cases, true, no one's even attempted to rebut it. 95% or whatever the number is, if members of Congress take AIPAC money, how is that good? Shut up, Nancy! So if that's your only defense, you've lost. You've lost. You didn't even enter the game. We're playing different games. I'm trying to tell the truth, convince people that what I think is true is actually true, and you're trying to make me be quiet because you don't like it? You can shoot me, or you can shoot everybody, but it won't. Doesn't go away because the truth is an immovable object.

• 2:18:04Tucker Carlson?

  It just exists and you conform to it or you don't, but it doesn't change because it's nature. Why do you think you got so much shit for having him on? He's been on other stuff. He's been on. Well, I got shit precisely because I'm not an anti Semite. That's, that was the whole point. I mean, if David Duke or whatever, pick an anti, I don't know, even though there are many, I'm sure there are famous anti Semites. I can't think of one, but David Duke is a famous anti Semite. If David Duke interviewed Nick Fuentes, he'd be like, you know, he wouldn't say anything, whatever. Who cares? They're talking to each other. But if someone who is openly opposed and sincerely opposed to hating people on the basis of their bloodline, which I definitely am, interviews Nick Fuentes and is like, hey, Nick Fuentes, stop with the Jew hatred,

• 2:18:49Tucker Carlson?

  but let's talk about your views on the betrayal of Republican voters by conservative institutions and the undue influence a foreign country has over our government. Those are entirely reasonable conversations and they're scary because they are reasonable. They're very difficult to refute. You have to like, what is, what's the counter argument? The country should be controlled by a country of nine million people? Like, what are you even saying? No one agrees with that. So if a reasonable person says it, that is an actual threat. And they were like, well, must destroy him and his son and his brother. And it's like, I'm not afraid of you, man. I'm just not.

• 2:19:31Tucker Carlson?

  And not because I'm so tough or brave or whatever, but because why would I be? You, you call me names and I'm gonna, I, I, you're not telling the truth and you know you're not. You know, you start saying things about me that are true, that I'm trying to hide, whatever those might be. You know, I'll get in fetal position, hide in the corner, but you throw lies at me? I'm totally unintimidated. And anyone who believes that, I'm sorry, I'll just say it again. Here's the truth. Don't believe I can't control that.

• 2:20:08Tucker Carlson?

  So yeah, that's why they don't like me, not because I'm extraordinarily brave. I'm not definitely not because I'm extraordinarily smart. I'm not. But because they don't have an actual argument. So all they can do is destroy. And I think they've they've reached kind of the limit. Like, what's the next stage? That does concern me. Not that much, really. But we're moving into a new time for sure. Now, after the last month, and there are a number of fairly influential people on the right who've just basically said out loud, I'm for censorship and identity politics. We just had an election a year ago this month in which Republicans won because they were opposed to, let's say it, censorship and identity politics.

• 2:20:53Tucker Carlson?

  And then their voters find out that a lot of the leaders of the party are totally for censorship and identity politics? How does this continue? Well, I'm out. I mean, I know that. But so are a lot of other people. Like, I'm not would never vote. I don't care what you call yourself. If you're for censorship and identity politics, two things that I truly, on principle, as a Christian, oppose, I'm not voting for you. Period. Ever. So that's like a big, big change. Like, the veil has dropped. We can see, like, you're walking back from the shower and your towel slipped. And I I saw what you looked like naked. I can't unsee that. Right? Has that ever happened to you? Hmm.

• 2:21:37Tucker Carlson?

  You see what someone looks like naked and you're like, ah, I want this out of my head. I don't want to. I saw your appendix scar. It's like. Oh, man. Right? So I don't, I mean, I don't know. I never know anything that's coming. You know, I can't, you can't. It's always something different from what you thought. But as of right now, I think it's like November, probably. It's before Thanksgiving right now. I know for certain that we're in for big, big, big, big changes because, just like fighting with your wife and you say something awful but true, things are never the same.

• 2:22:16Shawn Ryan?

  What is it about him that...

• 2:22:21Shawn Ryan?

  What is Gen Z? What is the younger generation? What's the draw? What's the draw to...

• 2:22:27Tucker Carlson?

  Well, he's unusually articulate, self-confident, clear. He's a clear talker. I don't agree. I mean, he's 27, so, you know, not to be arrogant or be like, "Young man, you don't know", but, you know, hanging around a long time gives you, I think, a fuller perspective, and he hasn't. So, like, there are things I disagree with, conclusions he draws that I think are not true. But in general, the guy is highly articulate, totally fearless, doesn't care at all. That's always a draw. Like, the man who just doesn't care, he's just gonna say it, always has a big audience, because people are attracted to strength. Period. Every time. What's strength? It's fearlessness. I'm not afraid.

• 2:23:12Tucker Carlson?

  That's how, you know, that's how the Vikings pick their leaders. Who's the least afraid? Of course, human beings are like that. They'll never stop being like that. So, only in the...

• 2:23:25Tucker Carlson?

  Only in our world are there other... Do you put, like, terrified menopausal women in charge? Normal studies don't do that. We're not gonna do that in 20 years. But Nick Fuentes is just a reminder that people follow fearlessness because they read it as strength. We should not be surprised. Why are they open to it? Why are they not watching The Approved? Why are they not watching Fox News and some Sean Hannity? What does Sean Hannity think? They don't know who Sean Hannity is. Why? Why are they open to this? Well, changing technology is one of the things, one of the reasons. They don't watch TV. They don't have cable subs. But the main reason is because they've been completely betrayed. Nick Fuentes is absolutely right. They've been screwed. They can't find jobs. The average age of a first-time homebuyer in the United States is almost 40. 40 years old.

• 2:24:11Tucker Carlson?

  It's a disaster. That's like collapse. And they've been blamed for it, and people have been hating on them their whole lives for being white and being male. Toxic masculinity and white racism are the twin perils we face. Those... That's passive aggression. That's hate posing as concern. If you tell white men that the biggest problems are toxic masculinity and white racism, what you're really saying is you're the biggest problem. We hate you. And everything our leaders have done has proven that they hate young white men. Everything, from the drugs they prescribe to the fake conditions like ADHD that they make up out of thin air in order to anesthetize boys.

• 2:24:53Tucker Carlson?

  Everything about it, it is an organized conspiracy, conscious or not, it's effectively a conspiracy. I don't need to know whether you planned it to know it was a conspiracy. You did this and you achieved this result. That's all I need to know. And they did it. And young men know it. They know it. And why wouldn't they be mad? I'm mad just thinking about it. And I'm 50, I'm fucking old, I am 56. So I'm like, I'm 30 years older than Nick Fuentes and I, because I care about America and care about people in general and hate to see mistreatment and cruelty of the weak, I'm outraged by that, just on principle. I hate that. It's exactly what I hate, pissing on weak people.

• 2:25:35Tucker Carlson?

  It's why I hated using fire hoses on protesters in Birmingham in 1956. It's why I hate the toxic masculinity, white racism lie of 2021. It's all the same. And so I am sympathetic to that because it's true. It's provably true. And so my feeling was, I'm going to immediately say, I'm totally against Jew hatred, it's anti-Christian. And I said that. And he's like, you're right. Okay. Now tell me what you think. Again, my conscience is clear. I'm glad I did that interview.

• 2:26:09Shawn Ryan?

  Have you guys spoken since then?

• 2:26:14Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 2:26:15Shawn Ryan?

  No?

• 2:26:16Tucker Carlson?

  No. No, and I, and he, someone, a reporter just texted me from some near times are politico and said that he's starting a PAC, a political action committee in, in the next political cycle, 2026 to...

• 2:26:36Tucker Carlson?

  Hold politicians accountable? I have, I've never, that's the first I've heard of it. I know nothing about it. Not involved in politics on that level, but, um, and I don't know if that's good or bad, but in general, I think it's very good, in fact, necessary to force leaders to do what they say they're gonna do. Otherwise, come on, dude, we're moving toward one of two endpoints. One is a totalitarian society where you just don't have the option of disagreeing. You have to obey because you've got programmable digital currency and universal surveillance and you just have to do what they say or they'll starve you to death.

• 2:27:12Shawn Ryan?

  It's not gonna work here.

• 2:27:14Tucker Carlson?

  I hope it, I pray it doesn't.

• 2:27:15Shawn Ryan?

  It's not gonna work.

• 2:27:16Tucker Carlson?

  Or we're gonna have a revolution. It's one of the two. We're getting totalitarian government or revolution.

• 2:27:20Shawn Ryan?

  It's gonna work for a little bit and then it's not gonna work anymore.

• 2:27:23Tucker Carlson?

  I pray you're right. I'm a gold buyer on that basis, an ammo buyer, but again, I have no track record of seeing the future, but I'm, I'm convinced that the current course won't work because it's a lie. If you tell people they own the government, they're in charge, they rule through the representatives in this democratic republic, that's what we've told, that's our system, has been for 25 years. If you tell them that's the system and you don't deliver on it, they go crazy. They go totally crazy. If you tell it, and by the way, I've spent a lot of time in.

• 2:27:56Shawn Ryan?

  What do you think happens?

• 2:27:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah?

• 2:27:58Shawn Ryan?

  When a government takes everybody's currency in a country that has more fucking guns and ammunition than anywhere else in the entire world?

• 2:28:10Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, I'm, as I've said a million times.

• 2:28:13Shawn Ryan?

  It works for a little bit and then when the desperation kicks in, that shit doesn't fucking work anymore.

• 2:28:18Tucker Carlson?

  Well, so that's exactly, we're saying the same thing. It's we're moving toward totalitarianism or revolution, violent revolution. By the way, if you tell people they can't say what they think and their vote doesn't matter.

• 2:28:31Tucker Carlson?

  How many options have you left for them? Just one.

• 2:28:34Shawn Ryan?

  Very fucking many.

• 2:28:35Tucker Carlson?

  That's right. So don't do that. Don't do that. It's much better to give a little. And you do this with your kids, you know, especially when they become teenagers. You reach a point where it's like, hmm. You can smell the defiance on them. How do I handle this? Just punch them in the face? Cut them off? Starve them out? No. You know, you listen. You make it clear that you're in charge. You'll be deciding. But you take their position into consideration because you have to because they're becoming adults. You have to be a little flexible. No, you can't smoke weed at the breakfast table. Like, there's some things you will never accept. But you can't ignore every single signal you're getting from your children while your population's very similar.

• 2:29:14Shawn Ryan?

  I'm getting really angry right now.

• 2:29:16Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 2:29:17Shawn Ryan?

  I think we should go, uh, I think we should go out back and blow some shit.

• 2:29:21Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry.

• 2:29:21Shawn Ryan?

  Break.

• 2:29:25Shawn Ryan?

  My days don't slow down. Between work, the gym, and time with the kids, I need eyewear that can keep up with everything I've got going on. And that's why I trust Roka. I've tried plenty of shades before, but these stand out. They're built for performance without sacrificing style. I've put them through it all, on the range, out on the water, and off-road. They don't quit. They're lightweight, stay locked in place, and are tough enough to handle whatever I throw at them. And the best part? They don't just perform, they look incredible. Sleek, modern, and designed for people who expect more from their eyewear. No fluff, no gimmicks, just premium frames that deliver every single time.

• 2:30:09Shawn Ryan?

  And that's why Roka is what I grab when I'm heading out the door. Born in Austin, Texas, they're American-designed with zero shortcuts. Razor-sharp optics, no glare, and all-day comfort that doesn't quit. And if you need prescription lenses, they've got you covered with both sunglasses and eyeglasses.

• 2:30:30Shawn Ryan?

  One brand, all your bases. Roka isn't just eyewear, it's confidence you can wear every day. They're the real deal. Ready to upgrade your eyewear? Check them out for yourself at roka.com and use code SRS for 20% off site wide at checkout. That's R-O-K-A dot com.

• 2:31:30Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Tucker, we're back from the break. Nice shot, by the way. But, uh, and we figured out how to run an excavator about

• 2:31:38Tucker Carlson?

  You figured it out.

• 2:31:39Shawn Ryan?

  Fifty percent.

• 2:31:40Tucker Carlson?

  I was standing in the back of my mouth, "You can't start that without a key." And you did.

• 2:31:45Shawn Ryan?

  But, um, oh, man, where I

• 2:31:49Tucker Carlson?

  I know, it got pretty, it got pretty deep there. Well, I was musing, as is my habit, and you said, "This is so fucking dark, I have to get out of here and shoot a firearm." That's where we were.

• 2:31:58Shawn Ryan?

  The hair on the back of my neck was starting to, I just wanted to, yeah, I had, I just wanted to

• 2:32:03Tucker Carlson?

  Can I just restate, I feel totally cheerful. Because once you see things in their full perspective, it's not scary. It's exactly what we were told, we just didn't believe it. And now that we do believe it, it's great, it's fine, actually.

• 2:32:18Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, that's, that's, I'm not there yet.

• 2:32:24Shawn Ryan?

  But maybe one day.

• 2:32:24Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, for sure.

• 2:32:28Shawn Ryan?

  Where do we go from here? So.

• 2:32:30Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's always darkest before it's completely black, as you know.

• 2:32:36Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry, I'm stealing someone else's line, but I do like that line.

• 2:32:41Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know, I mean, I clearly were, I mean, just in political terms, we're at the end of something and the beginning of something new. And no one wants change, I don't, but we're not in control. And the current system clearly doesn't match the moment at all. And so it's changing and it'll change along probably predictable lines, but also in some unpredictable ways.

• 2:33:02Tucker Carlson?

  But I'm for democracy, most people are not. The overwhelming majority of people don't want democracy, they just don't want it, they don't like it. It's tedious and annoying and too imperfect and they want results and so we're moving towards something that is not what we had before. And, you know, I'm not in favor of that, I wish we could return to 1985, but we can't, so.

• 2:33:29Tucker Carlson?

  But you have to just reduce the amount of lying, like lying is bad. Lying is bad. It alienates you from other people and aliens or leaders from their people they lead. Everything about it is bad, just no more, let's just stop lying.

• 2:33:42Shawn Ryan?

  That'd be great, I don't know how the fuck you're gonna get anybody to stop lying.

• 2:33:45Tucker Carlson?

  By calling out the liars.

• 2:33:46Shawn Ryan?

  Bud, well, yeah.

• 2:33:50Shawn Ryan?

  You know, we were talking about impact earlier and, you know, one of the things that I want to chat with you about, I don't know how to bring it up organically, so I'm just fucking bringing it up.

• 2:33:58Tucker Carlson?

  Get hurt with it.

• 2:33:59Shawn Ryan?

  This is something that, um, it's just, it's the most important issue to me. And that is sex trafficking, sex exploitation, and all that shit that is going on in this country and, and, um, you know, I, I was, I think it was, I can't remember if I was telling about, telling you about my, my really good friend, Ryan Montgomery, on camera, off camera, whatever, but.

• 2:34:25Shawn Ryan?

  That, you know, I talked about all the impact that we thought we would have that we didn't fucking do anything on. But that is one, that is one that it's like, it seems to be the forbidden topic that everybody's fucking scared to talk about. Legitimately scared to talk about, except for a few and that, that's, you know, the problem with sex trafficking and sex exploitation in this fucking country. And um, as far as an impact, I think, I think that is the biggest impact that I've ever made and probably ever will make. Uh, because, you know, what we did with Ryan was, I mean, he, he made it, you hear about this stuff all the time, right? And, and um, Yeah. It's hard to believe, you know, how prevalent it actually is.

• 2:35:09Shawn Ryan?

  And he proved it, you know, on the show, we, I had him open his laptop and, and I said, just get in any, I don't care what it is. I just want to see how long this takes. I'll sit here for two days if I have to. Five seconds and I had him screen record it so that we could prove it.

• 2:35:25Shawn Ryan?

  And so I just had him, anyways, the impact that was made, I think, I know for a fact, we scared the shit out of a lot of pedophiles. We educated a ton of, I mean, the interview has 10 million views and then with the clips and everything else, it's hundreds of millions of views. And we educated on parents on how, how predators are targeting their kids. We educated kids on how predators are targeting them and, and so anyways, I think it was a, it was a huge win. And um, uh, for kids. And uh, so I brought him back on last, was it last week?

• 2:36:07Shawn Ryan?

  He's releasing this week. Um, but he came on to talk about this satanic cult. 764, have you heard of this? No. Holy shit dude, like. So this is, this is an online cult and they hang out in.

• 2:36:27Shawn Ryan?

  They hang out and, you know, online, they hang out and there's a game that all the kids are playing nowadays called Roblox. Roblox, sounds like Roblox, but people know what I'm talking about. Roblox. And Minecraft, and they're, they're fucking everywhere. They're on Xbox, they're on Playstation, they're on computer games, they're on chat rooms, they're on social media, they're on everything. And what they do is they, they target primarily young women, you know, teenage women and below, the girls, and, you know, they, they might, you know, have them do something for them, sexually exploit them for a fucking Louis Vuitton purse or something like that.

• 2:37:09Shawn Ryan?

  And then, you know, then they have the photos and then they, they, they keep in touch and they call them back with these groups of people with the photos and say they're gonna release this. And they're having these girls carve slut into their arms with razor blades. They've had people, they have gone so far now, and this is, this is spreading like wildfire. They had one girl swallow the razor blades after she carved slut into her flesh. And they had another girl kill herself. And, you know, that, that, that's what I wanna go after now.

• 2:37:49Shawn Ryan?

  Is, because that, that's, there's an impact that you can have where you don't have to, have to wait on some political prostitute to introduce a fucking bill into Congress or, or the Senate. And you're actually gonna save somebody's fucking life, or save somebody from being sexually exploited, or trafficked, or, you know, all of the above. But, but, um, man, that stuff's like, it's just so alarming and, uh, and so disgusting. And are you tracking any of this shit?

• 2:38:28Tucker Carlson?

  Well, yeah, I mean, there's, um, I would just, yeah, I've, yes, and I just had a, an interview, which hasn't aired yet, um, but with your friend John Rich about this topic this week. Uh, we went pheasant hunting together in South Dakota and did it there. And, um, and talked a lot about it for three days.

• 2:38:51Tucker Carlson?

  I would just say two things. One, I don't think, and what you just told me confirms, gives further evidence to what I believe, which is, sex trafficking is not primarily about sex. It's about defiling innocence. Sex is hot girl, wanna sleep with her. This is not that. This is, and jaw molestation and all these carving slut, having a girl carve slut into her arm. What's the benefit to you? Well, there's none. What you're doing is defiling innocence. It's destroying beauty. It's making ugly something pure.

• 2:39:33Tucker Carlson?

  It's pissing on an image of God is actually what it is. So it's by, it's nature demonic. That's what demonic is. So this is a spiritual phenomenon. I think that I've always thought that. Like, what is that? Someone who likes sex and thinks women are beautiful and everything. What is this? It's not about that. It's about destroying something innocent. So that makes it the most evil thing that there is. And I couldn't agree with you more. I also think it's way more widespread even than you described. It's called OnlyFans. And I don't know why the guy who runs OnlyFans is not in prison, like, right now. Because he's a massive contributor to all kinds of different left-wing causes. But, so there's that. But, you know, if you're turning like,

• 2:40:19Tucker Carlson?

  a huge percentage of America's young women into prostitutes, you're a criminal. And punishing you and stopping that is like, top of our priority list because you can't degrade my country and turn my women into prostitutes. Like, that cannot be allowed. It's not, there's no human right that says you can pimp a nation's women, young women. No. Take advantage of their misery and confusion and desperation and poverty to turn them into prostitutes? That's like, that's what an invading army does. So I, I'm, of course, I couldn't be more opposed to all of it. Pornography, all of it. Like, I'm violently opposed to it. I guess I would just, my only concern is that we imagine as self-described satanic cults.

• 2:41:02Tucker Carlson?

  I'm actually way less bothered by satanic cults than I am by OnlyFans, which is also a satanic cult. Because at least the official satanic cults call themselves what they are. It's like, nice to have the opponent identify himself. But like, what does you porn call itself? Adult entertainment? No. I mean, what? It's, it's the same thing. And, um, and the point is the same. It's to destroy our civilization. And it's working. So, and people, because that's what a civilization is, is a collection of people. So, yeah, I'm really upset about it. And I think we should, and by the way, a lot of our leaders and institutions take money from these groups, like the ones that are legitimate.

• 2:41:47Tucker Carlson?

  They're not, there's nothing, there's nothing more legitimate about OnlyFans than there is about a satanic cult that lures girls online into carving slut into their arms or swallowing razor blades. It's the same thing.

• 2:42:00Shawn Ryan?

  What do you think the Republican Party is gonna turn into after this?

• 2:42:03Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know. I mean, of course, you know, it's the party, well, it's the party in power right now. It's an amazing amount of power and amount of money. And there's a lot at stake. I mean, we shouldn't underestimate just how powerful a political party is. You can be against political parties, but they run America. So, okay, there's that. So, maybe you shouldn't ignore them. Maybe you should engage. I don't want to because I dislike them too much and I dislike the people. But I'm glad that there are some people fighting for the soul of the party, whatever that means. Well, I know what it means. It means restating out loud why we're here. And we're here to make the country better for the people who live in it. Not for a foreign country, whatever that country is, and not for your donors, but for most people or everybody, kind of try at least a little bit.

• 2:42:47Tucker Carlson?

  And that is the argument right now. Does the Republican Party exist to help its voters? Every voter, actually, every citizen? Or does it exist for some other boutique corrupt reason, like serving a foreign government, serving your donors? And I do think that's the argument. I think that's the argument that Trump started when he ran in 2015. It was not about make America great again, which everyone is for, who wouldn't be for that? It's about America first, which is the idea behind MAGA. America first, just put your country first. If you're its leader, you don't have to put America first, you're just a citizen. But if you're running the country... You have a moral obligation to put its citizens before all others. It's not a controversial idea. It's the only idea.

• 2:43:32Tucker Carlson?

  But there are an awful lot of Republican leaders. Every Republican voter pretty much agrees with that. But Republican leaders are, and not just elected leaders, but though certainly them, but like the whole constellation of nonprofits and publications and we're conservative and like, okay, you can call yourself whatever you want, but what do you, what does that mean? And now we're getting to the definitional part of the argument. What are you talking about? Make America Great Again. How? What are your priorities? Shut up! And they're screaming because they've been exposed as liars. And everybody knows they're liars. And by the way, that's the Fuentes. That's the actual Fuentes message. I'm not an expert on Fuentes. Okay, I interviewed him.

• 2:44:12Tucker Carlson?

  But from what I could tell, he is angry because he feels that the conservative establishment, you know, Ben Shapiro, all the way up to some idiot Republican senator, all of them are telling the same lie. We're on your side, but they're not.

• 2:44:30Tucker Carlson?

  That is, there's nothing more legitimate than that. That is true. I would know. I've been involved for 40 years. I know every single person. That's true. They're corrupt. They don't care that much or enough or at all about you. And they have an obligation to. So that's the debate underway. And everyone on the other side would love to make it about, why do you hate the Jews? Well, I don't hate the Jews. It's not about the Jews, whatever that is. It's about the country.

• 2:45:01Tucker Carlson?

  And so I'm fervently hoping that the America first people win. I fervently am hoping, I think they will.

• 2:45:10Tucker Carlson?

  Have you been around Republican donors?

• 2:45:13Shawn Ryan?

  Have I been around Republican donors?

• 2:45:15Tucker Carlson?

  You've probably never met a Republican donor.

• 2:45:17Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, I'm sure I have, but I don't know. I mean.

• 2:45:21Tucker Carlson?

  They're not all bad. Some nice people, but in general.

• 2:45:25Tucker Carlson?

  If Trump voters knew who is paying for everything, they'd be like, wait, I have nothing in common with you at all. And now I think they're starting to figure that out.

• 2:45:33Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, it sure seems like that. I mean, what do you, what do you think, you know, the?

• 2:45:40Shawn Ryan?

  Gen Zers are definitely not responding to the traditional bullshit. I mean, you had mentioned that they're, you know, that Nick Fuentes is, they are gravitating towards that. Then you got, you know, the other side, Mumdani, you know, just won mayor of New York. I mean, what, what, in your mind, what do you think?

• 2:46:01Tucker Carlson?

  They're branches of the same tree.

• 2:46:03Shawn Ryan?

  Ten, twenty years now from now, what does it look like?

• 2:46:05Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, look.

• 2:46:09Shawn Ryan?

  Does it look the same?

• 2:46:10Tucker Carlson?

  I feel weird speaking for people thirty years younger than me or more. What do I know? But I have actually made an intensive longitudinal good faith effort to find out because I matter. Plus, I've got a ton of kids in that age range. And my impression right now is that, of course, they're enraged, both sides are enraged by people serving Israel. What? Stop with the Israelis. Be quiet. Nobody cares about Israel. Just shut up about Israel. But I don't think it's primarily about Israel. I really don't. I don't think it, I don't think people care that much. I know I don't care at all about Israel. I really think it's about economics. I really do. I think that's what Mumdani and Fuentes have in common. And there are a bunch of people who want to pretend it's about ethnic hate or even

• 2:46:55Tucker Carlson?

  about foreign policy. I don't believe that. I don't think the evidence shows that. I think what they're really mad about is the lack of opportunity, economic opportunity that they know they're facing. And then if you look at the debt loads, that's what I look at. Like, how indebted, who, how much debt does the average thirty-year-old have and who does he owe it to? And it's overwhelming. It's like unbelievable. I had ten grand on a credit card once. I mean, I literally couldn't sleep over it. Because that was weird, you know, twenty-five years ago, ten grand. I just didn't make enough money. I had to get on a job. It was fine. But debt is a huge, debt is the problem for young people.

• 2:47:35Tucker Carlson?

  And what's so infuriating and alienating is that both parties are completely on the side of the lenders. And not the debtors. And in fact, it's a symbiotic relationship. There is no borrowing without lending and vice versa. They are engaged in this dance and ultimately, one is basically exploiting the other. That's just a fact. And no one will acknowledge that. So the Democratic Party is like, well, everyone has too much student loan debt. Who's benefiting from student loan? Well, the student loan lenders are benefiting, of course, but so are the colleges. They're being subsidized for garbage. It's garbage, right? They're getting rich from these student loans. The colleges are.

• 2:48:18Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:48:19Tucker Carlson?

  And their administrators and... And then so are the lenders. But the Democrats are like, well, so because of this, we're gonna get rid of student loan debt, but taxpayers are gonna pay for it. Really? So you spend your life trying to pay your kids' college tuition. It gets super expensive because the lenders and the colleges are getting rich and then you have to pay for other people's college? Like, what? And the Republicans are just like, shut up. Pay your debts. It's your fault. Which is partly true. You accrue a lot of debt. You shouldn't have. On the other hand, it's not just you at fault. So here's the analogy that always occurs to me that I never hear anyone use, which is drug addiction. So you've got the drug addicts and we disapprove of drug addiction. Of course we do.

• 2:49:03Tucker Carlson?

  Fucking drug addict. But ultimately, we don't punish the drug addict as harshly as we punish the person who sells them the drugs, do we? Who's worse? The addict or the dealer? Obviously, the dealer. Look at the penalties. Look at the moral outrage. Are we matter at Pablo Escobar or some guy dying of a drug OD in Central Park? It's not even close. Pablo Escobar is the root of the problem. He's the one getting rich from the addict's misery. Well, I have no idea why we don't assume the same posture toward debt. Yeah. The kid shouldn't have be, you know, 50 grand in hock to a credit card company, but what about the credit card company? They have no role in this? They sent this kid a credit card offer in college? When he's 23? They're letting him buy DoorDash on credit?

• 2:49:48Tucker Carlson?

  Which is very common now. Buy now, pay later? That's debt. It's disguised, no interest, but there are late fees. It's debt, and it's debt slavery, and they're enslaved by it. But the slave master never gets blamed, only the slave? Tell me how that works? That is totally illegitimate, it's immoral. And it's on us as adults, I mean, I have no debt, that's rule one, no debt. I won't buy, I can't afford, I'm not buying that. Not because I'm a virtuous person, because I'm so afraid of debt, because I know that it means no freedom. I'm indebted, I'm literally indebted. I'm not free. And no one ever says that, anyone who says it is like, "Shut up socialist." But even the socialists aren't saying it, that's what blows my freaking mind, that's when you know it is a real conspiracy.

• 2:50:31Tucker Carlson?

  You talk to the DSA kids, "Oh, I'm so radical, I'm in DSA." "Whites are bad, I'm pro-trans." That's not radical dude, that's just fucking stupid. You want to challenge power? Why don't you criticize the banks once in a while? What? All they want to talk about is race and gender. Where's the real power? In white supremacy, when whites are dying off? It's not a white supremacy, son. It's at Citibank and JP Morgan, you didn't know that? They themselves are tools of actual power, left and right. The right is way off into libertarian economics, it's just the free market. There isn't a free market in this country. Period, hasn't been. In my lifetime, for sure, it definitely isn't, now it's a monopoly economy, obviously.

• 2:51:14Tucker Carlson?

  And then the left is way up in all this other garbage meant to divide the population against itself to keep them from challenging actual power. And I'm not for revolution, but we're gonna get a revolution if we don't readjust a little bit, soon. So I would say, let's hold lenders at least as accountable as we hold debtors, because that's fair and obvious, and in fact, I think lenders are way more culpable than borrowers. And let's take a good look at the interest rates. No society has ever allowed usury at the scale that we do. "Oh, shut up, you can't talk about usury." Why? Because you're benefiting from it? Fuck you! I'm not afraid of you. Like, are you, no! What's the top rate for a payday loan in the United States? I'll tell you, it's 600% annually. 600%!

• 2:51:59Tucker Carlson?

  That's illegal, yes!

• 2:52:01Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 2:52:02Tucker Carlson?

  And why don't we care? Because it's just black people. It's the ghetto, or, you know, it's poor people. It's not just black people. Of course, it's literally not. But that, in your mind, you're like, oh, that's pathetic. A payday loan? Okay, but that's a human being. That's a fellow citizen, and we don't care at all? 600% annual interest?

• 2:52:17Shawn Ryan?

  That's a desperate human being.

• 2:52:18Tucker Carlson?

  Why is that allowed? Why is it so hard to say, how about no? The same reason you can't make my daughter into a prostitute, OnlyFans? Because it's disgusting. And if we can't say it's disgusting, at the very least, before we even say it's illegal, how about it's just bad? Then we've lost the most basic defense mechanism that allows any society to continue. You have to be able to say, no, that's too big a threat to us. No, Satanism is not the same as Christianity. You can't have a Satanist, you know, crash in the state Capitol, or whatever they call it, shrine to Satan. We're not doing that, because that's self-destruction. That's suicide disguised as freedom. So, anyway, we just lost the ability

• 2:53:02Tucker Carlson?

  to recognize the true threats to ourselves and our children and our grandchildren and our nation. And one of the greatest threats, maybe, you could argue it, but definitely one of the greatest threats is debt. And people are getting rich from debt. I know them personally, and so do you. We call it finance. That's the name of it, finance. What does finance mean? It's loaning money to people at interest. There's a place for that. I don't think that it's inherently evil to loan money to people. I've loaned money to a million people personally. I never get a payback, but whatever. Anyway, the point is, it's not inherently evil, but the details matter. At what rate? Who are you loaning it to? What are the terms? There has to be some boundary, or else it's just pure exploitation

• 2:53:47Tucker Carlson?

  of your fellow human beings, your fellow citizens. And rather than rein it in, we celebrate the people who do it? And we wind up with, the entire economy is based on what? Finance and real estate? And neither one is a productive industry. One is loaning money at interest, and the other's just reselling dirt. Okay, that is not gonna last. That's not, and then tech. You know, I don't, I complain about tech a lot. I don't, you know, I'm worried about the implications of emerging technologies that, you know, obviously I've talked about a lot. But the idea of tech, building something new, creating something, of course, that's, that's what we're supposed to do as people, make something new. So that's like inherently more legitimate. Real estate and finance are components of a healthy economy. If you find that they are the economy,

• 2:54:31Tucker Carlson?

  you're gonna get what you deserve, dude. And nobody is saying that. I don't know why. Well, I do know why, because the real estate and finance lobbies are way more powerful than the normal person lobby, which doesn't exist. But, young people, anyway, I'm far afield, but the point is, young people are being destroyed economically. And they have no opportunity. They're being disrespected and lectured and given a whole pharmacopeia of every kind of drug to keep them passive so they don't foment a revolution, so they stay in their little cages, which is sinister, it's lethal, it's homicidal, actually.

• 2:55:14Tucker Carlson?

  Kills the spirit at very least, but not just that. They can't own anything. And the idea that you're gonna roll out with a straight face a 50-year mortgage, which is literally the opposite of what we need. Who benefits from a 50-year mortgage? Well, the guy collecting 50 years of interest. Who loses in that deal? The guy who doesn't own his house. He's a renter for 50 years.

• 2:55:40Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know, man. I got, I got, I'm probably way off because everybody I respect thinks that that is a fucking horrible idea.

• 2:55:47Tucker Carlson?

  50-year mortgage?

• 2:55:48Shawn Ryan?

  I think it's a good idea.

• 2:55:50Tucker Carlson?

  How?

• 2:55:51Shawn Ryan?

  Because I don't know anybody that has held on to their home for 30 years and paid it all down. I think that, let's, this county, for example. Real estate prices have gone through the fucking roof. A lot of people can't afford to live here anymore. I think that, I think that you can build wealth through real estate. I think you could do, I think you could use the 50-year mortgage to get yourself in to... A market that's appreciating at a rapid pace, start to build your wealth, sell that, take the equity with you and, and, and build it that way.

• 2:56:25Tucker Carlson?

  There's no question you could do that.

• 2:56:28Shawn Ryan?

  I, I, that's, but that's just how I, I think. So I think it's a good, I think it's a good thing that 50 year mortgages are here because it gets, it gets the payment down. It gets people to be able to afford a home. Yeah. If they pay it for 50 years, they're going to lose their fucking ass. But if they play their cards right and they actually study, you know, and they, if they play their cards right, then they can get in, they can gain the equity, they'll gain a lot more equity in certain markets than they will pay in interest. And then they can get the fuck out and roll that into something else. It's actually affordable.

• 2:57:00Tucker Carlson?

  There's absolutely no question that people can parlay credit into real money. There's no doubt about that. And I know a million people who've done it and every real estate investor does that. That's what they do. Um, and they're good at it. I would just say two things that make me concerned, very concerned about it. One is that's a very sophisticated game. Actually it is, um, to be, you know, to take leverage and turn it into actual wealth. Like you, you gotta know what you're doing. I'm, it's beyond my reach mentally. I'm not smart enough to do that. I'd be afraid to play with that. A, B, I think the value of a home is the ownership of it.

• 2:57:45Tucker Carlson?

  Like that's why it's better than renting because of the psychological rewards and because it reorients your thinking toward permanence. And like, I own a piece of this, like owning a piece of dirt is just psychologically a completely different experience than not owning it. It vests you in the country. You have something to defend. This is mine. It's not much, but I own it. You can't take it away from me and I will take a stand on its behalf. Okay. And I know in my own life, so I, I don't think, I didn't own a home, actually own a home. I bought a house at like 24, 23, 24, cause it was a different world, bought a super cheap

• 2:58:28Tucker Carlson?

  house on credit with a mortgage. And I've owned houses ever since then. So like a long time, over 35, 30, 35 years, but. I didn't actually own a house until I was like in my late 40s and I signed a new deal with Fox. And I was like, I'm gonna pay off the mortgage and I called my smartest friend. He was like, that's so stupid. You know the tax advantages? In mortgage interest? Of course, I knew that because I had a mortgage my whole life. And I was like, I don't care. So you're gonna lose $50,000 a year just by owning it? And I was like, so that means the system is set up to penalize me for not being in debt?

• 2:59:04Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:59:05Tucker Carlson?

  I have to pay for the privilege of not being in debt to a bank? Who's writing these laws? The banks? But I did it anyway. Because I'm a lunatic and I'm like, I don't care. All I care about is the psychological benefit. And the psychological benefit was so much more profound than I ever anticipated. To owning the house, even though I still had steep property taxes. You don't own anything in this country because you always owe somebody something. And if you stop paying them, they take it away from you. So that's not actual ownership. But it was a lot closer to ownership. And, oh my gosh, I was just like, that's when I really went crazy when I owned it. I was like, come and take it, bitch.

• 2:59:41Shawn Ryan?

  I'd pay 50 grand just for the peace of mind.

• 2:59:43Tucker Carlson?

  100%. And not just the peace of mind, but like the, the swelling of power, I felt like. This, not even an impressive house really, but I was like, this is my house. I don't take any, I don't pay anybody. Of course, I was paying frillions in property taxes to the stupid corrupt DC government. So it was kind of a, a fake, it was a facade, but it was still real to me. I just feel like getting out of debt was the biggest psychological change that ever happened to me, really. It's like, I'm my own man. I own my house. Maybe I think small, okay, that's why I'm not in business. But it made a big difference. It was. It was. That's when I started like telling the truth so much, they fired me.

• 3:00:28Tucker Carlson?

  I paid off my mortgage. It's like, yeah, I have no mortgage. What are you gonna do about it? Fire me? Yeah.

• 3:00:36Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I just I don't think it's the best answer, the 50 year mortgage. You know, I would rather them just lower the fucking interest rates, but.

• 3:00:47Tucker Carlson?

  What if the bottom drops out the real estate markets? I mean, I think long term real estate. I mean, obviously, that's all I do is, you know, I like real estate, so I buy real estate. But, you know, it's cyclical. So like, there are times when, you know, what you, it just happened to me, actually, um, on something. But anyway, in the last year, uh, yeah, the value goes down sometimes. It's not just up. So like, if you've got a 50 year note, like, I don't know, you could be more underwater than we already are.

• 3:01:19Shawn Ryan?

  Definitely could be.

• 3:01:22Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. I mean, that's happened. I didn't have to sell, but I mean, I've definitely owned houses where I owed more than the house is worth.

• 3:01:30Tucker Carlson?

  Not a great feeling.

• 3:01:33Tucker Carlson?

  You don't really feel like this is an ownership society when you couldn't sell the house for the amount that you owe on it.

• 3:01:40Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:01:42Tucker Carlson?

  Feels a little precarious, though I will say, it does drive you to work harder.

• 3:01:48Shawn Ryan?

  That's for damn sure. What do you got coming up, Tucker? I know we got, we got to wrap it up soon because you got a dinner.

• 3:01:54Tucker Carlson?

  Man, I talk too much. Are you coming up? I don't know. You know, some kind of.

• 3:01:59Shawn Ryan?

  How's your new documentary?

• 3:02:01Tucker Carlson?

  Meeting with Destiny. Uh.

• 3:02:04Tucker Carlson?

  Well, we just did a documentary on Thomas Crooks, which I thought was really, really interesting and, uh, and very unsatisfactory. And the responses we got from the FBI. So I'm really concerned about the FBI. I'll just say that. Very concerned. I don't understand exactly what's going on, but.

• 3:02:20Shawn Ryan?

  I don't think anybody understands.

• 3:02:21Tucker Carlson?

  It's concerning and I know people who work there and I've spoke, spoken to them and I'm not against them, but like, what is this? And I can't get an answer. I feel a way about a number of FBI investigations in progress. Like, I don't know what this is and I'm, I'm definitely unsettled by it a lot. I hope, you know, I hope I find out and I hope everything's okay, but I'm worried about that. And we're, we're doing, and we just commissioned another documentary. I had, we did documentaries at Fox and so I worked with documentary guys who specialized in making documentaries, one of whom lives here in Nashville, who worked for me for years. And we just hired him again to make documentaries. So I know a lot of people in that world that made a million documentaries and I love the form.

• 3:03:06Tucker Carlson?

  I thought it was going away. I thought no one would ever watch another documentary. Dude, are you serious? I know, I know. Well, what do I know? I mean, I'm not, I've not been good at calling changes in media. Like I'm, I thought the podcast was like the dumbest thing I ever heard. I told Rogan to his face, I was like, I did not think this would work, dude. Four hours of talking? Like, who would watch that? The whole world? So, anyway, I personally thought the documentaries were a dying art. My father made a million documentaries. I have them on film cans in my barn. So they've been around a long time and I love making them and writing them and voicing them and I just love the whole experience. So we are doing, we're doing a ton of documentaries. And we're doing a multi-part documentary on, on the FBI and some.

• 3:03:51Tucker Carlson?

  Is that the next one coming out? No. A bunch of different parts. I, we just, I mean, I just commissioned it really yesterday, so. Oh, man, that's gonna be a good one. I think it's gonna be good. If, not to brag, but you, I mean, the documentaries are the product of, you know, I decided what we're doing documentaries about, obviously. I'm involved in documentaries, but if I'm being honest, and the Crooks thing, I brought, I got that material on Crooks myself and brought that to our guys. But, but really, we have a couple people, a guy called Charles Cougar, Scooter Downey. I mean, these guys are like, I could never do what they do. They're so freaking good. It's incredible.

• 3:04:32Tucker Carlson?

  And Charlie Cougar especially is like one of the most talented people I've ever, who I've worked with for 10 years at least, is one of the smartest people I've ever met, way smarter than I am. So it's such a thrill to watch that.

• 3:04:46Shawn Ryan?

  Do you pick the subject, Matt?

• 3:04:47Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I picked, of course, yeah, of course. I picked the subject and I used to write the documentaries. Like when I was at Fox, I always wrote the documentaries. I'm a writer, so I wrote all the documentaries, but he's so good that the Crooks documentary, which we just did, and I voiced it, you know, I do the voiceover and sit in my barn, we have a family library in our barn, I sit in the library and voice it. And he brought it to me, we had talked a lot about it, and I brought him the material and then he followed up on it. But he basically did the whole thing, and he wrote the whole thing, and it was like better than I could have done. And I ad-libbed like eight words that I changed. But I mean, I read it cold. That's how good he is. So I just want to say that out loud,

• 3:05:29Tucker Carlson?

  man. This, this guy, I said kid, he's not a kid anymore, he's a father. But it's just incredible to watch people. I always thought he was smart, obviously, but he's just become a true force. I don't think his name is known by anybody, probably doesn't want it known, I probably shouldn't have said his name, but he's an amazing person. So, and so was Scooter Downing, this other guy. So, and a wonderful guy, too. So, yeah, I'm super psyched. It's nice, I will say one thing about getting older, the bad part's taking a leak in the middle of the night, but the good part is, you end up knowing who the good people are. Like I've worked at every network, you show up at these networks and it's like, you have this big staff, you have no idea who's honest, who's a liar, who's talented, who's not, who cares, who doesn't. Like you just don't know anything. And then after a while, over

• 3:06:14Tucker Carlson?

  years, and move from this place to that place, like you really identify some of the most impressive people in the world. It's just absolutely crazy. Like the people we have working for us now.

• 3:06:26Tucker Carlson?

  Every single person I would have stay at my house and most of them have and every single person I would trust with my checking account. I mean, there's every single person I believe, every single person is a good person. It's just incredible. I hope this moment for our, for our company, Z companies, I hope it never changes because I just, I love everyone. And we've had so much drama over all these years and now we're to the place where like, everyone is great.

• 3:06:53Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I'm happy for him, man.

• 3:06:54Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, dude.

• 3:06:55Shawn Ryan?

  Good for you. Good for you.

• 3:06:58Tucker Carlson?

  Well, thank you for having me. Sorry I talked so long and thank you for your guns. Can we just say one last thing as a coda?

• 3:07:05Tucker Carlson?

  The 357 lever gun is the greatest gun ever. I mean, probably not if you're fighting in Afghanistan, but if you're, you know, shooting steel or bowling pins in your backyard, there is no more fun gun than a 357. I shoot 38 out of mine because I'm cheap. That is just the greatest gun. No recoil, dead nuts, accurate.

• 3:07:27Shawn Ryan?

  It's a damn good gun.

• 3:07:28Tucker Carlson?

  Fun to shoot, cheap ammo. It's real. It's on a 22. It's like a thump. Like everything about it.

• 3:07:34Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:07:35Tucker Carlson?

  Do you agree with that?

• 3:07:36Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, fuck yeah. I love it. I love it. I love it. Next time you come, we'll have some fly rods and hopefully some fish in that damn pond.

• 3:07:45Tucker Carlson?

  Catch a, catch a largemouth on a fly rod and if you think that fly fishing is like some faggy, a feat sport with your little hatches and your number 18 midges.

• 3:07:56Shawn Ryan?

  I love fly fishing.

• 3:07:57Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, dude. Throw a popper across a farm pond and a largemouth hits it, or even better, a smallmouth. It's like, wah!

• 3:08:04Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Well, Tucker, thanks again, man. It's always good to see you.

• 3:08:09Tucker Carlson?

  Thanks for the best.

• 3:08:10Shawn Ryan?

  God bless.

• 3:08:11Tucker Carlson?

  God bless!

• 3:08:24Tucker Carlson?

  No matter where you're watching Sean Ryan's show from, if you get anything out of this, please like, comment, subscribe, and most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you're feeling extra generous, please leave us a review on Apple and Spotify podcasts.