#254 Brian Harpole - Groundbreaking Evidence From Charlie Kirk’s Head of Security

Brian Harpole served as a police officer in Texas for 14 years, holding a variety of assignments including patrol, tactical operations, criminal and narcotics interdiction, bicycle unit, training, and administration. Over the course of his law enforcement career, he received more than 25 commendations recognizing Valor, Meritorious Service, Meritorious Conduct, Lifesaving, and Officer of the Year honors. In 2008, Brian transitioned to the private sector as the Operations Manager for an elite Texas-based security firm. In this role, he specialized in executive and personal protection for dignitaries, their families, and high-value assets, overseeing complex security operations across diverse environments. Today, Brian continues to work globally as a private security contractor and trainer for non-governmental organizations through his company Integrity Security Solutions. His work has taken him to five continents, where he provides specialized training and operational support in protective services, intelligence, and emergency responses. An honors graduate of Columbia College, Brian also earned a Master Peace Officer License from the State of Texas and is a graduate of both the International Law Enforcement School of Police Supervision and Southern Methodist University’s CAPE Intelligence Program. He has completed more than 4,400 hours of advanced instruction in law enforcement and executive protection practices. Beyond his professional achievements, Brian won over twenty medals in the Police Olympics and has completed more than 325 endurance events across the United States. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://callofduty.com - Buy Black Ops 7 Now https://psyopshow.com https://americanfinancing.net/srs NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.327% for well qualified borrowers. Call 866-781-8900, for details about credit costs and terms. https://betterhelp.com/srs This episode is sponsored. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/srs and get on your way to being your best self. https://bubsnaturals.com – USE CODE SHAWN https://bruntworkwear.com – USE CODE SRS https://calderalab.com/srs Use code SRS for 20% off your first order. https://shawnlikesgold.com https://helixsleep.com/srs https://patriotmobile.com/srs https://prizepicks.onelink.me/lmeo/srs https://ROKA.com – USE CODE SRS https://shopify.com/srs https://tractorsupply.com/hometownheroes https://trueclassic.com/srs https://USCCA.com/srs Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:04Shawn Ryan?

  Brian Harple, welcome to the show.

• 1:06Speaker 03

  Pleasure, Sean. Thank you for letting me be here.

• 1:09Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you for coming, man. So, um, very heavy interview today. And so you were in charge of the security detail in the company when Charlie Kirk was assassinated exactly two months and one day ago.

• 1:29Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 1:30Shawn Ryan?

  And, um, you know, I've been really quiet about this matter because so many people are out there on it. And it just, it's a real shame, but it just got to be so much that I just did not trust my own eyes, ears, what I was reading, what I was watching. And I think a lot of people have sensationalized this. And, um, and that is a real fucking shame. And it makes it impossible to find the truth.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  It is, and it's not a word, but you said sensationalized, but it's like advantaged, right? Just to take advantage of it. It's almost like sickening, and it has been. And really, that's kind of what drove me to come here.

• 2:27Shawn Ryan?

  Well, Brian, I know you and, and, and your team are taking a lot of flak and,

• 2:38Shawn Ryan?

  you know, and I just, I commend you for the, for the courage to come out and, and, and talk today on the show and, and I just want you to know, I mean, you know, I'm not a combative interviewer. I do have some tough questions that will be at the end, the questions that I've seen all throughout the internet, questions that people have, questions that I have, some of them may seem a little absurd, but I think it is, I think it's important to, you know, just to address all the major ones, at least all the ones that are on my radar. And, and so I just, once again, want to thank you for coming.

• 3:12Speaker 03

  Nothing's, if it's, nothing's out of bounds, except for something that may be covered in the NDA that I did for a specific incident for them. And so if that's true, I would just say that, but literally, that's the big thing is that it's, I'm sitting here, but the team is here. And, and that's the big deal. And they're representing them.

• 3:37Shawn Ryan?

  I want to, and I also just want to say, you know, one, rest in peace to Charlie Kirk and God bless his family. And number two, I've lost friends and I'm familiar with those type of scenarios. And I just want to say that I'm really sorry for what you and your guys are going through with losing your friend and, and also with everything that's coming along with that. So.

• 4:10Shawn Ryan?

  But everybody starts off with an introduction here. Brian Harpo, a highly decorated law enforcement veteran who served as a police officer in Texas for 14 years. In 2008, you entered the private security world as operations manager for an elite Texas-based security firm where you specialized in executive and personal protection.

• 4:33Shawn Ryan?

  Now you are a global private security contractor and trainer, running your own company, Integrity Security Solutions across five continents. A graduate of Columbia College, you earned a Master Peace Officer License from the state of Texas, along with graduating from the International Law Enforcement School of Police, supervision in South and Southern Methodist University's Cape Intelligence Program. Most importantly, you are on the stage with Charlie Kirk, is the head of his contracted security detail on September 10th, when he was assassinated. It's been two months since this tragedy, and there are a lot of unanswered questions,

• 5:17Shawn Ryan?

  and people are starving for some answers. I know a lot of people are going to be very interested in what you have to say today, but you know, I just kind of want to give it to you right now and give you the opportunity on why you've decided to come out.

• 5:35Speaker 03

  You hit it. There's so much out there, and there's so much out there that's not true. And I was talking to your staff earlier, I'm older, right? And I have guys on my team that, or our team, that are younger, and if the truth doesn't get out there, it could hurt their, you know, 20 more years of work, and that's not fair.

• 6:03Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  And these are stellar individuals.

• 6:05Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:06Speaker 03

  These guys are stellar. And, you know, we've worked with just about every agency and police department across the nation, and in the larger government, you know, FBI, Secret Service, and I've got guys will come up to me and say, "Where did you get your guys? Where did you get these people?" And the only response I've ever been able to make sense is, I just tell them, and I prayed them in. And...

• 6:38Speaker 03

  They came in, you know, and our, our, our selection process is unique, unparalleled.

• 6:49Shawn Ryan?

  We'll get into that.

• 6:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:50Shawn Ryan?

  I like that cross on your, on your jacket. Yeah, I thought it, I thought it would, um, I thought it'd be good to start this episode with a prayer.

• 7:00Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 7:00Shawn Ryan?

  You okay with that?

• 7:03Speaker 03

  It's what we all should do.

• 7:04Shawn Ryan?

  All right.

• 7:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:05Shawn Ryan?

  It's gonna be super simple here.

• 7:10Shawn Ryan?

  Jesus, I would just wanna thank you for, for having Brian here today and we have just a couple of goals today with this interview and that we ask that you be here with us in this interview and we just wanna bring some answers to unanswered questions here today.

• 7:32Shawn Ryan?

  And avenge Brian's team of his, of, uh, these accusations and, and conspiracies and we basically just want to clear the air and, um,

• 7:48Shawn Ryan?

  and get rid of the confusion and, and we hope this helps. And we also just wanna pray for, for Charlie and his family. And we hope that this

• 8:01Shawn Ryan?

  rise in political violence comes to an end real fast. Amen.

• 8:06Speaker 03

  Amen. Thank you.

• 8:09Shawn Ryan?

  My pleasure.

• 8:09Speaker 03

  I believe in that. Power of prayer is unbelievable.

• 8:12Shawn Ryan?

  Me too.

• 8:13Speaker 03

  We, uh, I've, I've received prayers from people from all over the world and, and, uh, text and, and I, I would tell they'll make, they're heard and felt. And they are, they are.

• 8:25Shawn Ryan?

  Good then.

• 8:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:27Shawn Ryan?

  Well, we got a couple of things to get through.

• 8:29Speaker 03

  Let's do it.

• 8:29Shawn Ryan?

  And this seems like.

• 8:32Shawn Ryan?

  I don't even want to give this to you, but everybody gets one, so I gotta do it.

• 8:36Speaker 03

  What's that?

• 8:36Shawn Ryan?

  But, uh, everybody gets a bag.

• 8:39Speaker 03

  Absolutely. I, uh, I, um, was looking forward to it, uh, for a couple of reasons. Uh, one, my fiance, uh, uh, loves, uh, this type of candy and so I'll definitely share it with her.

• 8:52Shawn Ryan?

  Right.

• 8:52Speaker 03

  And, and, uh, they're known for that and so, um, I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you very much.

• 8:59Shawn Ryan?

  You're welcome. You're welcome. And, uh, I have a Patreon account. It's a subscription account. Uh, they've been with me since the very beginning when I started this in the attic of my house. And, um, it's turned into one hell of a community. And so one thing I do is I just offer them the opportunity to ask every guest a question. And so this is from Amber.

• 9:22Shawn Ryan?

  What is your favorite memory with Charlie?

• 9:26Speaker 03

  Um, it, it's odd. It was, uh, recently and believe it or not. Um, and, uh, it, it, it, it kinda made me feel like I was just hanging out with him instead of working. And, um, we were in Japan and, um, we had finished, I mean, it was like a backbreaking tour of, uh, uh, South Korea, went to the DMZ, uh, and then did a lot of stuff around there. And then we went to Japan, Tokyo, he did some speeches. And, um, a couple of us had went to a dinner afterwards.

• 10:05Speaker 03

  And Charlie just loved, uh, Japan, uh, and, um, he was like, man, something, we had a bet and we were playing a game that if we could find somebody in Japan taller than him.

• 10:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so we were all, you know, we're already like on guard, uh, looking, scanning, but then, then you got this secondary thing behind you like that, you know, are you gonna find some guy that's as tall as this guy, which is absolutely hard to do. And then afterwards, we went to dinner and we were, he was just eating sushi and, and we were laughing and having a good time and it was a safe environment. So access was controlled and, and it was just these goofy things like you were sitting around a table in high school with a bunch of guys that you were cutting it up with. And I just remember he was like, he really loved the sushi and he was like, Brian, you gonna eat that? And

• 11:04Speaker 03

  I was like, no. And he just starts eating it off of my plate and, and I'm like, this is, yeah, yeah. And it's just like, man, this is, it was cool, you know? He had, he had never been to Japan before and, and, and he got to see some of the really cool stuff there. And then he was just on a high about it. And, and so he was not Charlie Kirk. He was just a guy. And, and so it was a, it was a very cool experience.

• 11:30Shawn Ryan?

  That's cool, man.

• 11:31Speaker 03

  It was.

• 11:32Shawn Ryan?

  That's cool.

• 11:32Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 11:34Shawn Ryan?

  Well, Brian, like I said in the interview, I want to really clear the air with a lot of things and it's going to be some uncomfortable questions. But, you know, I've, I've thought a lot about how I would do this interview. And I think it, it is probably most similar to the Blackwater one that I've done. And so one of the things, you know, I'd like to talk a little bit about your background, your company, the training that's involved in your company, and then we'll get into some actions on and stuff. But, you know, I mean, this is just, this is just so wild. I mean, we've heard, we have heard it was

• 12:12Shawn Ryan?

  a right wing nut, a left wing nut, Israel, a trans person, a trans person's boyfriend. I mean, it, it, in, and at the time, there were compelling arguments for every single one of those avenues, you know? And I think, you know, there's a lot of people that don't believe that this Tyler Robinson kid is the shooter. But I just, you know, we'll dissect all of this stuff as we go on. And then at the end, I want to ask what questions you have, you know, from somebody that was being there and somebody that, that.

• 12:51Shawn Ryan?

  Had their hands, the first ones to have their hands in the wound. But, um, so let's, let's start with, you know, let's start with a little bit of your background in law enforcement and what qualified you to get into this type of.

• 13:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, I, I came from a, a law enforcement family and my dad was a cop for forty-seven years, um, and, uh, uh, he was a worker. He, he said he is still a worker, you know, and he was kind of like a role model for that. And so, um, I was kind of hell bent when I was in my early twenties that I, that's not what I was gonna do. And then, uh, just kind of got, uh, gleaned into that, recruited into that and, um, huh, did fourteen years at that and kind of my area of, of specialty was I, I, I had the ability to, to go out and find bad guys. And, um, that was kind of what I did, whether it just, um, you know, seeing the physiological

• 13:47Speaker 03

  movements of people in crowds or even in cars and, and then the way they walk and, and so you notice it, you recognize it and how you can, um, look at

• 13:59Speaker 03

  the way they act when they see you or they're trying not for you to see them. And so you can couple that and use that to make contact, conversation with people and, and, and then you find a lot of bad guys. And, and so, um, I kind of specialized in that and then also did, uh, um, emergency medicine, uh, um, and so there, I had some really great mentors, like I said, my dad, um, a guy named Jerry Venom, uh, Bill Waburn, um, Keith Lane, just, uh, phenomenal, um, mentors in law enforcement that, uh, just kind of took me under their wing and or slapped me when I needed it. And we all need it sometimes.

• 14:41Shawn Ryan?

  Have you ever exchanged gunfire?

• 14:44Speaker 03

  I've been shot at and then shot guys with a lot of the times with non-lethal shotgun rounds.

• 14:52Shawn Ryan?

  You have, so you know what it's like to be shot at?

• 14:55Speaker 03

  Sure, sure. We, you feel it. I mean, I was close enough one time, I remember a guy shot at me with a shotgun and you don't, I remember that, it kinda sounds weird, but you see, I remember seeing his hair puff up because the gun was so, the shotgun was so short.

• 15:21Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 15:22Speaker 03

  And so I remember seeing the, uh, wadding come over my head.

• 15:29Shawn Ryan?

  No kidding?

• 15:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, and so I was like, ah, that means he missed, you know, cause wadding's after the bullets and, you know, but...

• 15:37Shawn Ryan?

  Man, I got shot at with a shotgun one time.

• 15:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:41Shawn Ryan?

  In Yemen. And I thought they were, I thought a fucking kid was holding a sparkler towards me. Turns out it was a shotgun.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  You feel, yeah, this guy was, this guy was a...

• 15:52Shawn Ryan?

  Luckily I was in an armored vehicle.

• 15:54Speaker 03

  A little over forty something feet away and so you, you know, you feel it, you feel the blast, right?

• 15:59Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 15:59Speaker 03

  And so, grace of God, he missed. And, um, but, um, that, that career, it, you know, I kinda, like I said, had some really good guidance and, um, starting with my dad, all the way up to, um, these other mentors and, uh, and there was an expectation of work back then, uh, where you went out and produced, you know, and integritized work and you went out and found bad guys. And then when you did that, you kinda got a skill, uh, developed a skill. We called it, you know, you, you started sharpening your own sword. And, um, and then that kinda helped me transition over into this field where, um, it's about prevention and seeing it before it happens, right?

• 16:43Speaker 03

  And, um, and so that was able to really help me in this field, go out and work and even in austere places and... I've done some work in, on the private security side that makes law enforcement, the most dangerous stuff I did in law enforcement pale in comparison. I mean, we, I wore cameras inside of cartel houses in Juarez.

• 17:10Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 17:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, and, and, and we were looking where kids were being trafficked and we act like we went in to shop for children and we were capturing that footage.

• 17:23Shawn Ryan?

  Shit.

• 17:24Speaker 03

  And we got made inside and, and then.

• 17:28Shawn Ryan?

  That was as a civilian?

• 17:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

• 17:33Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 17:33Speaker 03

  And then I did a same deal.

• 17:36Shawn Ryan?

  Well, can I hear more about that?

• 17:38Speaker 03

  Sure, sure.

• 17:39Shawn Ryan?

  You, you were, you were on a civilian contract to go into cartel homes?

• 17:45Speaker 03

  Well, it was, it was an NGO based out of Dallas that, that specializes in helping people that are trafficked. And we were in El Paso working during the surge of people coming over to document that. And I was providing security for the people that were reporting it. And then, I don't know how they came on the intel, but inside of Mexico and Juarez, there was a hotel that they found out that where the kids get warehoused. And so they were like, this would be great footage. And I was like, this is horrible. You know? And

• 18:25Speaker 03

  so we, we ended up going over and posed as shoppers, basically. And the guy gave us a tour and we went into this room that was about, oof, 50 feet long, but only probably 10 feet wide. And you can tell like, it was just bed, bed, bed, bed, bed. And these guys were, I guess that's where you go in and shop, I don't know. But nobody was in there. There weren't any children in there at the time. And then we went back downstairs and we're in the lobby and kind of talking to the guy behind the desk. And you can tell he's like the, the, I guess the front for it. And I saw a guy look, look through the

• 19:07Speaker 03

  window from outside and with his head, he, he counted us.

• 19:13Speaker 03

  Like that. And then he picked up the phone and he said that into the phone. And I told him, hey, man, we just got made. Shit. And so we ended up going out of Morris at a secondary exfil location. And we ended up having to go out in New Mexico instead of Texas. And so just got some great footage, but then we did other ones where I went to Piers Negras and wore a camera and showed how people would come back across and I won't say be harassed, but be screened. You have to pay a fee to leave Mexico and then you get checked when you come to the border, the middle of it, and then you get interdicted. Why were you

• 19:58Speaker 03

  there? What did you do? What did you eat? And then, so I'm getting interviewed, but at the same time, the camera crew was filming literally hundreds of people just walking across unabated. And so you got to see both of those at the same time. Wow. Yeah. And things like that, really good missions in South Africa, doing things, same deal. And so there's, there's good work to be done. So you got a lot of experience. Um, I mean, experiences, I have been, got experience through experiences. And so, and I've had, it's really a gift, a luxury, and I'm, I'm, I'm happy to have it.

• 20:43Speaker 03

  How long have you had your company? We started Integrity three years ago. And we actually worked for another company prior to that with Charlie. And there was a, in 2022 is when we started it and started doing that. We worked for him for the other company prior to that. And there's some conjecture out there on the. For Charlie? Yes, for Charlie and other accounts. How long have you been working for Charlie? Um, since.

• 21:16Speaker 03

  I believe it's eighteen.

• 21:17Shawn Ryan?

  Since eighteen?

• 21:18Speaker 03

  Eighteen, yeah.

• 21:19Shawn Ryan?

  So seven, it's been seven years.

• 21:22Speaker 03

  Seven years, almost eight years, yeah.

• 21:24Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 21:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, so.

• 21:27Shawn Ryan?

  So when you started the company, was it, did you take the, the, this, is it the original Detail that started in twenty eighteen?

• 21:34Speaker 03

  Pretty much the same guys, yeah.

• 21:36Shawn Ryan?

  You guys have been together for a long time.

• 21:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're, uh, we've added, obviously, and, and, uh, and lost a few, uh, you know, not, um, different company. We lost that company lead, or that company, for reasons that we couldn't stomach that were going on. Um, but, um, and that's why we started it, this company, and that's why we named it Integrity. Um, you know, we name things, and it was, it's a we company.

• 22:05Shawn Ryan?

  Tell me about the vetting process to get into your company. What does it, what does it take to become a security contractor for Integrity? What kind of people are you looking for?

• 22:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a weird, uh, for the industry, it's kind of weird. Um, we have a group of guys that are either from the original, uh, we, we call them the OG guys, and then so, and then we have the add-ons and, and that have come in. And then so, a guy that wants to come to work, uh, for us, um, he has to get sponsored in by one of those people that are already here. And so, this, you know, I'd like to come to work for you, and, um, so somebody vouches for him. And then, so then, he comes to our training facility, and, um, we train, if you're in town not working a Detail, we train every Wednesday.

• 22:56Speaker 03

  And, um, so it's, you know, defensive tactics, emergency medicine, um, techniques, and, you know, PSB techniques, firearms, yeah. And so, that's every Wednesday. And, um, so they come out and they train with us for an underscript amount of time. Some guys, it's a month and a half, two months, some guys, it's six, seven months. Um, you know, there's no timeline. And at the end of that time, um... The team gets together and they give them the thumbs up or thumbs down. And then if they get the thumbs up, then they start the vetting process of, you know,

• 23:37Speaker 03

  what did you do? Are you a good dad? Are you a good person? Are you a, were you a good previous employee, employee? You start to just a normal vetting process after that.

• 23:49Shawn Ryan?

  So you go through all of the skills?

• 23:53Speaker 03

  It's not skills. We, we, we have guys that come to us that the skills are, are not what they need to be, but, but we, we as a team can collectively teach that. But what we can't teach is if you're not a jackass.

• 24:10Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  Can you work well with a team? Can, can you think of people besides yourself? And some, sometimes that can't be taught. Sometimes it can. But, and so that's important. Those, those, those physical skills, the hard skills and the soft skills can be taught. And, and we have quite a collection of guys that, that do that.

• 24:32Shawn Ryan?

  Man, you know, we have some statements from your guys here and, and I don't, I don't know if you want me to read any names, but I will.

• 24:39Speaker 03

  They said they're fine with the, as long as just first names?

• 24:42Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, here's just, you know, Blake Combat Proven Marine. Pierce More Talent than everyone else. I mean, you have SEALs, World Renowned Jiu-Jitsu People, 22 Years on SWAT, Professional Athletes with Tactical Careers. I mean, 22 Years is a Navy SEAL, Marine and 30 Year Cop and SWAT Commander. I mean, these guys know what the fuck they're doing and they're no stranger to.

• 25:21Speaker 03

  Dangerous work. No, and they come in with that, but we have a saying that says, um, uh, cause they come in with that kind of pedigree and they're vouched in based on that a lot of the time. But, um, we have a saying that, um, your past achievements or affiliation are not equal to your current capability. Mm-hmm. So that's why they still have to come show that they can do that stuff still and still have the hard set. Yeah. Still have the soft set. Make sure your skills match your ego. Right, right, and your, your resume. Yeah. And so, um, it's a, and, and that also builds cohesiveness and, um, I've never, uh,

• 26:04Speaker 03

  in my years of cop, years as a cop, or until we started this group, even at the prior company, we didn't have it. It was a, it was a weird relationship between the team and the guy who owned it. Um, but this one, we got grown ass men when we finished training telling each other they love them and then we leave.

• 26:28Speaker 03

  Nice. Yeah. What, I mean, what is the, what is the ongoing training look like at Integrity? It's, it, it, it's a mandatory. I mean, I, um, the guys are required to do, by our written policy, forty hours a year. And, oh, um, then twenty of it has to be internally and twenty of it has to be ex, it can be externally. Most of the guys, I did the averages and I sent in our training logs and we keep them electronically so that they're not, they can see that they're time, date stamped with what we did, why we did it. And most guys get around two hundred, some of the guys are getting four hundred hours of training a year. Wow. Yeah, and it's, it's advanced level.

• 27:12Speaker 03

  It's not sitting around like in cop days where you're watching videos of, um, You know, how to get along better with people that don't think like you. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's real things that are applicable to what we're out there doing right now, today, and then, and how we can raise the next level. And then it's ongoing. There's an expectation for it. And we've lost guys because they didn't keep the hours. And you know, tell them, and they were good, they were good humans. I mean, good people that just timelines couldn't line up or, you know, things going on at home. And, and so they, they had to get, you know, laid off or furloughed and told, hey, when you come back and, and start all over. But the process started all over.

• 27:57Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, I would like to, I would like to, I mean, we had a little conversation before we jumped in on the interview and the way, and when you told me, you know, the, the process that you had developed, you know, to, to, to, to be vouched for, to work for integrity, the actual training pipeline, the, the, um, you know, all the guys on the detail have to give a thumbs up or a thumbs down. I mean, I think that's a phenomenal way to hire for a security firm. On top of that, I mean, the ongoing training, I mean, you had brought up medical when we were chatting upstairs, you had brought up obviously firearms training. I mean, you even, you even brought up etiquette classes that you would bring people on to

• 28:40Shawn Ryan?

  the range and ask them what fork they're going to use.

• 28:43Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 28:43Shawn Ryan?

  So that, I mean, so you are very, very detail oriented.

• 28:49Speaker 03

  You have to be. Um, um, you're in kind of a, a zero fail. And, you know, we see that now of work here is I used to, I tell guys that come in from the law enforcement side, it's like, man, back, back when we were cops, if somebody got, something happened to them and, and they're in your beach or 10 cars got stolen or, uh, you know, uh, 50 mailboxes got bashed, um, you went out and you're just like, sorry, and took the report and you went back to work and you got paid the same. And, you know, in this industry, if something happens by no fault of your own even, and like that, you're done, you know, with that client. Um, and there are people in the woodwork that'll come right back in and. And do it for cheaper, probably.

• 29:34Speaker 03

  And so it has to be that mentality that we have to be that much better every single time you step on a job. You have to, it's, you know, people say that hundred, 110% rule. And I'm like, it is, it's 110%, but it's 110% of something that has to be the benefit, the big picture, not yourself. Everything, the whole job, the detail. And you get guys together and you put them through that mess to get on the team and, and you've developed something that can't be replicated. I mean, we vacationed together, we Christmas party together. It's a brotherhood. It is, it is. And once, um, once you, there's another step to it is, um, it's so close that once

• 30:18Speaker 03

  you've made it through those steps and you're on the team and then you still have to put that kind of effort out and then, and then once you've put that effort out and shown, all right, even on jobs, that, um, you, you, you truly can think about everybody, the client, the team, the big picture, um, what, what we're believing in, then the team gets together and then they authorize them to get the tattoo. And then they get to get a tattoo and that, you know, brothers in Christ for eternity. Wow. And so. You guys are tight. Yeah, it's, it's.

• 31:02Speaker 03

  That's what it should be. You guys are tight.

• 31:08Shawn Ryan?

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• 33:51Shawn Ryan?

  When you're... Screening your employees or the guys, I have to ask this question. I have to ask it.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 34:00Shawn Ryan?

  Do any of your guys have any ties to any foreign intelligence agencies? More specifically, Mossad?

• 34:09Speaker 03

  No, and I've seen that and heard that. And, you know, I've been in 39 countries in this world and I've never been to Israel. I'm a firm Christian. I ask our guys, are you believers? We have no ties to Israel or Mossad or any other one. We're Americans, period. We believe in what we're afforded to do here. We believe in our system. And to say that we're Mossad or attached to any type of foreign entity, it's one of those,

• 34:53Speaker 03

  it's crap on its best day.

• 34:55Shawn Ryan?

  Do you have anybody on your team that you think could be tied to an extreme political party who is planning assassinations?

• 35:08Speaker 03

  No. One, we're in each other's business. Where they have the time for it, I wouldn't know.

• 35:18Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, you had mentioned some of these guys are on the road 250 days a year with Charlie.

• 35:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, just working. And it's not just that. It's, I mean, a lot, we do a team trip every year down to an undisclosed location. And some of the guys are there now. Some of the guys left yesterday after that job ended. I'll be going down the night before, I mean, tomorrow. So we know what each other does. We know their kids' names and spouses. And it's like, if they're doing it and they're not, they wouldn't have time for us not to notice. And then...

• 36:05Speaker 03

  The heart of these men that are going to pour this out is like, we all, you took an oath, I've taken an oath, most of my guys have taken an oath. And it's different in the security industry, you know, you're not taking an oath for your client, but you are taking an oath to each other.

• 36:22Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:23Speaker 03

  And so, they wouldn't do that to the client, but they really wouldn't do it to me or to their coworker.

• 36:31Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:32Speaker 03

  And so, that's one of those things, it's like, now, if you know us, those allegations become even more idiotic.

• 36:39Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. And you say this with 100% certainty?

• 36:44Speaker 03

  To my death.

• 36:47Shawn Ryan?

  Roger that.

• 36:49Speaker 03

  To my death.

• 36:50Shawn Ryan?

  Let's move into the threat assessment and the pre-planning for the event.

• 36:56Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 36:57Shawn Ryan?

  How many days prior were you guys there?

• 36:59Speaker 03

  Well, generally, the permitting process and all that goes on behind the scenes, and then there's a questionnaire that they're filled out that we used to, there was a lot of busy work, and then so, you know, kind of like in the military, what you did, we create forms that say, let's get this information upfront, and so that we have a duplication process so that we can confirm it. And so, we started our first, before that one, the 24th of the month prior, and so, and that was with the hard conversations, meetings.

• 37:34Shawn Ryan?

  You started that on the 24th?

• 37:36Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:37Shawn Ryan?

  Right.

• 37:38Speaker 03

  It's, and we do-

• 37:39Shawn Ryan?

  That's two weeks.

• 37:40Speaker 03

  At least, no, it started before that, with the intelligence gathering and all that, but the hard conversations, the sharing of information, the conference calls, the data sheets, and we put that in a timeline on an app, so that this all goes up and every guy that's on that job can see all the intel that comes in. It's a decentralized command model for the company, and so, anybody can make command decisions for the betterment of the client or the team, and so, everything goes on that app. And so when I get it, they get it. And whoever's gathering that intel, it gets it. There's no hold, there's no power hold on it.

• 38:25Speaker 03

  And so that first information came in on the 24th, and then the information share starts where we're walking through, you know, everything that you need for a detail. The site plan, point of contacts, emergency fallback locations, hard rooms, arrival points, hospital, you name it. Fire department, jurisdictional authorities. All that comes in on an intel sheet and gathered. And then it's in that quick reference app. So any guy can get it at any time they want to. And then we can share it out anytime. We can add people into it, take people out of it.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  And so we found also that we utilize that format. And it shows that we do, it can timestamp our due diligence also. And so that's why we use that as opposed to just, you know, sharing it back and forth or doing it on a whip it pad. So we have that in real time. And so that starts then.

• 39:29Shawn Ryan?

  What kind of, I mean, at the beginning, when I was kind of looking into this before, before I realized I'm never going to find any answers. We've seen a lot of Charlie's friends, people that are in the media, you know, come out and say, Charlie had very specific concerns about Israel. And that his opinions were changing about Israel. And that he had expressed concerns about this to various media personalities, you know. My question is,

• 40:14Shawn Ryan?

  Is the man that owns the company that's in charge of his security detail and you are the head guy on his security detail, were there any concerns about that or any other organization, political party, foreign nation, did he express any of those concerns to you?

• 40:33Speaker 03

  No, and, and we, Dan, Dan works for Turning Point as their security guy and so Dan feeds down that to us to, to our contracted security, which is us for integrity. And so nothing had ever come now from, from, from Dan, from Charlie down to us about that. Now, at the same time, you got to look at the world we live in and that's a reality. It's a reality that, that it, an organization, whether it be a hate group of any type, could want to hurt anybody. Not, not necessarily Israel, but we look at mathematics too and there's

• 41:13Speaker 03

  probabilities and possibilities, right? And I look at the probabilities, the possibilities are infinite and the probabilities are that it's not. The probabilities are the people that want to hurt him are the people that are there screaming things at him in front of us half the time. And, and so we have to look at those probabilities and the mathematics. We look at the possibilities too. And those possibilities, I'm sure are out there, but we've never got any detail or intel to show that, that yet we should look into this deeper.

• 41:46Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, it's just, it is very interesting that if he was that concerned about foreign nations or, or opposite political affiliations, I mean, if he was that concerned, I don't know why that wouldn't have been disseminated down to the security detail. I mean, I have a security detail and if I feel that there is a threat, even if it's just a feeling, that's the first people that I tell is my security detail.

• 42:13Speaker 03

  We looked at, you know, we look at all that and, and you can go back and look at his speeches and, and Charlie was a

• 42:22Speaker 03

  An absolute supporter of Israel. And, and then he would say, and they would ask him, why? And then so, you know, we're in those things and we're, we're listening, but at the same time you're looking, but you hear these things and you hear them over. And, and I can remember him saying, you know, he was a supporter of it because one, a nation should be able to defend itself under, after they've been attacked. Two, Charlie was a devout Christian, to the point that he gave his life for it. And he, he referenced this and I heard him reference it, where those places that are our holy land are being taken away from us and not being able to visit and that you can't go there. And so that protection of Israel was important to him and those holy sites.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  And he'd been there. And so he had talked about being there and how it changed his life. And so that's why those sites in that area was important for him to protect. Now, how you can derive Israeli hitmen out of that, I have no idea. But we have never received anything from the FBI, which they were pretty good about sharing information, Secret Service, because of the, you know, the Charlie Circle. And we had never received anything from anybody that was credible, that was saying that groups of that entity was a threat to him.

• 43:50Speaker 03

  We received other one, other threats all the time. Mm-hmm. You know, they come in all the time. And, and so you gotta look at them, are they First Amendment or are they actual threats? And, and so, you know, First Amendment threats would come in and these people are, have disgusting, they're like, Charlie, I can't wait till you come to, you know.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  It was some current on the west coast. I can't remember what town it was, but I can't wait till you come to this town so that I hope somebody shoot you in the head and we can pee in the hole.

• 44:22Shawn Ryan?

  What?

• 44:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it's like, where do you, where do you get this kind of stuff?

• 44:27Shawn Ryan?

  Man.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  And, and, and so where, where do you, and where do you, what are you benefiting from it, right? And so, am I, am I gonna, am I gonna spend an exorbitant amount of time with a, a possibility that I don't have any tangible intel on and haven't received any, or am I gonna put my eggs into this basket that is a, is a probability right here?

• 44:50Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:51Speaker 03

  You know, and so, it's probable. These, these people are doing it with bomb threats routinely, uh, physical, you know, threats to person. And, and so you gotta look at all these things and work those angles and, you know, Dan did that meticulously and he shared that information with us. And so, um, uh, i- i- if that came in, we got it and we never got anything that, no Mossad or nothing that was, never, not once.

• 45:18Shawn Ryan?

  Did anybody, I mean, you know,

• 45:23Shawn Ryan?

  I've interviewed a lot of warfighters. I'm a warfighter. A lot of times, somebody on the team will have some type of a feeling or a premonition or, you know, hey, we shouldn't be here right now or something's about to happen. I don't have a good feeling about this. Did anybody here on your team or Charlie, anybody, express any concerns about that day?

• 45:44Speaker 03

  On that day, for us personally, when you walk in, in, in, you know, we talk about workup, right? So we start the back workup and then, um, we're a little different also as far as, um, our guys don't just get to show up. The team goes out and we physically build all of our prevention model. So they don't show up and just see it. They physically build it and we walk through it each other and we make sure things are done right. And so our guys are pulling bike racks and putting them together and they're putting tape up and they're looking at places all around the bubble that our area of responsibility is. And, and so, you know, they're looking around thinking, God, this is horrible.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  You know, we're, we're, it's a beautiful amphitheater there at UVU, but, um, you know, you're- You're a tactician. If you're somewhere and you're covered from an elevated position from 180 degrees, it's horrible. Mm hmm. And that's where we were. But that's come out. Why would they have it there? This is ignorance. You know, it's a security fail. And I'm like, well, one, that's where they told us we had to have it. We weren't optioned out anywhere else. There's a permit you have to get. And the school says, nope, this is where you have to have it. We don't get to argue with them. You know, we don't get to say, no, but that's it. This is where you put, this is where you have to do it.

• 47:11Speaker 03

  And then secondarily, Charlie liked it. There weren't, it wasn't ticketing. You didn't have gates. People, regular people showed up and we had spoke to him about it before. And it's like, man, this is getting dangerous, you know? And his response was, I know. And so it's like, but if you ticket it and you make people jump through hoops to come in or pay or go through magnetrometers and then the people with opposing views don't show up and then there's no conversation. And when there's no conversation, there's more division.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  And his goal was to have less division through conversation. And so the easiest way to get that was to open it up. And so, and that's not the first, I mean, UVU was a, an open air, but we did it in San Francisco where we had a street takeover and people trying to climb over fences and you know, our, our primary and secondary exfil got compromised. And so it was, it was bad. Wow. And so we've had, um, New Mexico where we had no law enforcement assistance and that went, not, not last year, year before, and we end up physically just fighting our way out of there.

• 48:33Speaker 03

  And so it's like, we get it, the, the risk. But, um, his response and his, you know, his mentality was that, um, this is worth it. We're, we're making gains here.

• 48:48Shawn Ryan?

  In your coordination with UVU, I mean, did they offer any assistance, anything at all?

• 48:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:55Shawn Ryan?

  Did you ask them of anything?

• 48:56Speaker 03

  Absolutely. So, we come in and we start looking at things immediately, like, where's our, where are our risks? You know, it's a risk assessment when we come in. That's why we get there, that's why we start doing the advance so early. We walk it, you know, we build it ourselves. And so initially, we have, I spent thousands of dollars on drones last year and got the guy's license, but if the area lies in the Provo, Utah airspace, I can't fly it. That's a 107B, we can't break the rules. Right? And then you had secondary restrictions, probably due to heavy foot traffic for the school, but I can't go in and break the rules.

• 49:40Speaker 03

  There's laws for a reason. And then, and so, now the school could have flown drones, the PD, but they didn't have them. Right? And then, and then so, but Orem PD has a drone unit active and professional, and that police department, I will tell you right now, is awesome. They are, they get it. They, they were there, they helped, both on the soft side and the hard side. And so, I started asking questions, like, you guys have a drone unit? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good. Do you have an MOU or a mutual aid agreement with the school? And they're like, yeah. I said, did they call you and ask for assistance? No. I'm like, why, why wouldn't you call? And then, so, you know, that's one.

• 50:25Speaker 03

  So, just, I can't go in and break the law. I can't make my guys break the law. I can't go in and do something that would jeopardize their

• 50:34Shawn Ryan?

  Do you have any idea why they would say no? I mean, did they, did they, was this malicious? Was this, was this being malicious towards Charlie?

• 50:42Speaker 03

  I don't know if no's the right one. I would say, did you ask? Did you, did you ask this awesome PD that would, would probably help you in a heartbeat, that you have an MOU with, did you even ask them? And, and the answer was, from them, we didn't get asked.

• 51:02Speaker 03

  We didn't get asked. And then so, so table the drones, which would have been awesome. Absolutely. I believe in them, but I can't break the law to do it. We're out there not only protecting them physically, but I have to protect the reputation of the client also. And that's a whole separate thing of protection. So the drones would have been awesome, but I can't break the law. They could have used them. They chose not to. And you got Overwatch, you know. Yeah, snipers on roofs. I've got guys that are qualified. That's their career. But this is not a State Department job. I don't have an ITAR, and this is in Iraq.

• 51:45Speaker 03

  This is Utah. I can't go in and set up, you know, observation points with snipers. That's against the law. I can't break federal and state law to do what we need to accomplish. So that's their job. Our job is the close protection bubble. And there's a saying on this. And there's areas of responsibility. And we cut up the areas of responsibility in this, in this pre-meet, or, you know, when we start doing the advance, right? We've got this, you've got this. And so, you know, they have that Overwatch capability, and

• 52:26Speaker 03

  they have an MOU for SWAT for that through ORAM, not utilized. Don't know why? That's a question for them to ask. Why didn't you call? Why didn't you ask for assistance? Especially when this crowd grew, and grew, and grew. I mean, good, good police tactics. If you're out and you have six guys that show up, and all of a sudden this thing goes from 1,500 to 2,000 to 3,000 people, you go, hey, we need some help. For all your pride, or whatever it is, we need some help. I took 12 guys there. I had double the amount of people there that the PD had. And we're only responsible for the first 30 meters in movement

• 53:09Speaker 03

  in, and advance in, and receiving and out. And we had 12 guys. They gave me six for the rest of the campus.

• 53:21Shawn Ryan?

  Geez.

• 53:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, and so that's not the question for me to say, why didn't they? That's the question for them. And so there was that one, the site, man, it's not, it wasn't up to us. Two drones. I can't break the law to do something I want to do. Otherwise, I'd have showed up with an APC.

• 53:42Shawn Ryan?

  With the drones, I mean, you were in coordination with local police department, correct?

• 53:48Speaker 03

  Local, no, the UVU has jurisdictional authority. It's their campus. Orem is the outside city. They weren't there because they hadn't asked, hadn't been asked to come. And we can't ask them to come. I can't call Orem PD and say, hey, man, send me 10 guys. I can't do that. I don't have the authority to do that or the budget. And then, but the city, I mean, the school PD has an MOU or mutual aid agreement with them. Why not just call them and say, can you guys send us 10 guys over here for Overwatch? All that. And I say that only because we had previously talked about areas of responsibility.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  And then the areas of responsibility and I had a, and our guys all have not only an area of responsibility, but there's a job in a job. So you have your area and you have a job for that area, but then you also know the guy's area and job next to you in case he goes down or something you have to backfill him. And then we have the bubble around to protect him. And mathematically, 2,000 people are in front of you. Where's mathematically the threat coming from?

• 55:04Shawn Ryan?

  The front.

• 55:05Speaker 03

  Right. And so we're looking for walk-ups.

• 55:09Speaker 03

  You know, people walk up, setting down a package, walking away, displaying a firearm, everything from throwing balloons full of piss to meratic acid. We've had all kinds of stuff thrown on us over the years. And then, and so there's a reason why those things are set up that way. And there's a reason why those guys that day were set up around there. Every guy has a job. Every guy has a detail. Every guy knows the guy's job next to him. And so we have that set. And then.

• 55:43Speaker 03

  We, other people have areas of responsibility. Well, the, the Monday before the event, we were still working through the arrival. And so, we have concerns with rooftops. It's, I mean, we got a location that we're not keen with. We, we know what our responsibility is. We know what our statutory authority is. We know that we can't go up and set up our, our, our guys in sniper observer positions. It's not going to be allowed. And so, we have some correspondence with the chief of the school on that day, on Monday

• 56:27Speaker 03

  before Charlie was killed. And why this hadn't come out, and why he won't stand up like a man and admit this, I don't know. But he's watching a bunch of men lose their careers. And he's okay with it. On Monday before, this correspondence went to Chief Long. Hello, Chief Long. We received this message today from the student group. There is a student roof access pretty close to where CK will be set up at the Utah Valley. The Sorenson Center has a couple of staircases that go up to walkways on the roofs. He comes back, and the sort of, for identification, the Sorenson Center was the building in front

• 57:12Speaker 03

  of the Lucy Center. And so, and he comes back, he says, "You want access to the roof?" And came back and said, "I was told students have access above us. If this is true, it would be nice to either have it controlled access, or allow one of my guys to be there as well, if possible." He comes back, and his last correspondence was, "I got you covered."

• 57:47Speaker 03

  What else am I to do? When a command level

• 57:53Speaker 03

  uh, person from an accredited police department says, "I've got this area."

• 57:59Shawn Ryan?

  Geez.

• 58:02Shawn Ryan?

  Have you been in con- who was that?

• 58:04Speaker 03

  That was the chief of police for the UVU Police Department. We've called him, he's never called us back.

• 58:10Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 58:14Shawn Ryan?

  Does he have a name?

• 58:16Speaker 03

  Chief Long.

• 58:17Shawn Ryan?

  Chief Long.

• 58:18Speaker 03

  And, and I didn't know if it said deputy in that or not, because in, in the, uh, in the, uh, correspondent, or in his stuff on the website, it says Deputy Chief Long, but we just called him Chief Long, so...

• 58:32Speaker 03

  So it's like, yeah, I, I got guys that are ten times more qualified than what he could have produced for us, probably.

• 58:40Shawn Ryan?

  So literally, all they had to do is post anybody at that stairwell?

• 58:47Speaker 03

  Stairwell.

• 58:47Shawn Ryan?

  Or put a drone up, or...

• 58:50Speaker 03

  Or let us.

• 58:51Shawn Ryan?

  Let you do your job?

• 58:54Speaker 03

  Or let us. You know, we, we, we, we, our, our team is built.

• 59:01Shawn Ryan?

  Would it be okay if we put that

• 59:03Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 59:03Shawn Ryan?

  screenshot of that text

• 59:04Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 59:05Shawn Ryan?

  up for everybody to see?

• 59:06Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 59:06Shawn Ryan?

  So they know it's real?

• 59:07Speaker 03

  Absolutely. And do a FOIA for his phone.

• 59:12Shawn Ryan?

  That's a good idea.

• 59:13Speaker 03

  Do a FOIA, do a FOIA for his phone, and, and, and have those records put out, so everybody can see them. Do a FOIA for the communications for days leading up to it.

• 59:23Speaker 03

  Do it. And the truth's like a lie. You set it free, and it'll bite for itself.

• 59:30Shawn Ryan?

  One of my favorite sayings.

• 59:33Shawn Ryan?

  Last question before we take a break, I just want to ask, were you understaffed, or, or, I mean, was anybody sick? Did you have what you needed?

• 59:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, we, we usually had been-

• 59:43Shawn Ryan?

  This was the same as every other event?

• 59:44Speaker 03

  No, no, we upped it, yeah.

• 59:46Shawn Ryan?

  You upped it?

• 59:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, we upped it. Um, we usually would run eight to nine, depending on how many movements, and, and, and how much movement inside, and, and so... Um, based on no, uh, articulable threat, uh, but just the, the current world situation per- prior to that day, um, we upped the manpower, uh- To twelve and then we had actually a thirteen there that came in the in the drive party. And so, but yeah, we we upped it based on nothing because it's like, all right, that we're in a kind of a place where we don't want to be. We're expecting a big crowd. It's the first one.

• 1:00:29Speaker 03

  We don't want to get behind the eight ball. We in security industry, it's a prevention industry, not a response industry. It is a response industry, but it should be a prevention industry. So we're there in the prevention model. And so you can see, if you pull the schematic up, the placement I put for the our guys. And on that day, thank goodness, we had them because where the tent was that Charlie was under, there's a giant walkway above him. And when we were doing the walk in that morning, one of the things that didn't come out in our advance was there was giant rocks that they use for architectural design all around there.

• 1:01:12Speaker 03

  And and so we're seeing these rocks on the ground and it's like, oh, people can come by and pick up these rocks and then throw them down on us and throw them down on Charlie. And so we did a temporary criminal trespass zone right above him on that bridge walkway so that people couldn't come in it and throw rocks down on him. And and and so, but the problem is that we had to get PD units in here to take that area of responsibility. And then we told them, hey, just like out there, we need you here to have oversight coverage because one, it's a tape line. It's not a hard, you know, wall or anything. And so you need statutory authority under Utah law to say, hey, you can't come in or

• 1:01:56Speaker 03

  you can be arrested. And so the PD came and did that. And then we had one. I get calls all the time. And they're like, hey, we want to run a security detail. And we want, you know, 10 guys that are former SEALs and operators and SWAT guys. And we want up-armoreds and this and this. And then I'm like, all right, you know, here's what it's going to cost. And they'll call back, right, we want one guy in a Toyota Sienna, you know. And so, and so it's, it's, budget's a factor.

• 1:02:26Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:26Speaker 03

  And, and, and we eat a lot of money every year based on, you know, hey, last minute, non-approval of people, but let's bring them in just to save our asses.

• 1:02:35Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:36Speaker 03

  And that's a regular thing. And, and, and so, yeah, we, we had, we had people for our assignment. And our assignment and our people's assignment was to carry out meticulously. I mean, you had Dan next to Charlie. And Dan's only job is Exfil. And you can see when Charlie got shot, within two seconds, Dan had his hands on him to push him down to the ground. And then, within, um, you break it down forensically, like, within five seconds, I was on top of Charlie. And then you saw our team actually doing exactly, uh, falling back on top of him and collapsing back on top of him. Not one radio comms came out. It's unneeded. They all know their jobs.

• 1:03:20Shawn Ryan?

  Let's take, let's take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll get into actions on.

• 1:03:25Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:03:26Shawn Ryan?

  Perfect.

• 1:03:27Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:03:30Shawn Ryan?

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• 1:08:05Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Brian, we're back from the break. We're getting ready to cover Timeland and security during the event, actions on. And so could you, could you walk me through the security setup for the event?

• 1:08:18Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:08:18Shawn Ryan?

  It was placed where, what you guys were seeing?

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we come in and we start, we look at setup in the mornings. And like I said earlier, the guys are all part of it. So there's intimate knowledge. Every guy has intimate knowledge of the setup. So we come in, we do the placement of where Charlie's going to speak from, and that's kind of like the ground zero. And then we build out from that. And people in the security industry, you know, you have this thing called the concentric circle of security theory, right? It doesn't have to be a circle. It could be a line or a moving box, or however you want to work it. And you have zones, and you have a permeable zone, a semi-permeable zone, and a non-permeable zone. And so you can, you can come in on the

• 1:08:59Speaker 03

  fly and set up these zones. And so we come in and we set this up. So Charlie's tent was on that right in the middle. And then we start, so you want to start at the very back. And so we started with a non-permeable zone, but it was, it was one of those ones where it's mainly visual, and it's just tape across this arrival section. And all it is is caution tape, but it's just to keep good people good. That's it. And we know that. And so, but, and then, and so that's just to let people, the foot traffic out that we know people won't come in there, so that if somebody's doing something bad, they stick out. Mm-hmm.

• 1:09:40Speaker 03

  And then, and then inside that zone, we place our vehicles, and you can kind of see it on the aerial, or you can see it when you see the footage. We, we put those vehicles behind Charlie's where he's speaking for a reason that day. It's called SEPTED, Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design. A worry was that somebody would come down that same driveway and just run us, run him over from the back, or run us, run people over. So you stack those vehicles so that the vehicles are being used, kind of like big Hescos or something. Barricades. Yeah, barricades. And so that people can't get, get to them that way. And then, and then we, and then we start, then technically, that's, you know, semi-permeable. We still

• 1:10:25Speaker 03

  cover it's like, hey, people could walk through there, but they have to be knowns. And then, and then we went with hard bike racks. So hard bike racks then, that come all the way across the back, and they're linked together. And, and so, and, and so those bike racks keep people from coming in and out unless they're vetted. And that's where you, you would start the, the non-permeable zone.

• 1:10:45Speaker 03

  And then we put a guy there and he physically is there to watch that and his job, that's his area of responsibility is he's, he's back cover. He's making sure people aren't coming up from behind us. He's making sure that the right people can come in and out. They don't, they don't have to be back there. And we're not talking about a large area. We're talking an area that was maybe a hundred feet across, maybe more. And then there was also a police officer back there. We didn't request him to be there, but he showed up. And so we're like, hey, might as well utilize you. And so he just held the position on the far left side. And then you got where the tin is. And then that's kind of where it gets into the meat and potatoes of it. Cause number one rule of protection detail work is evade

• 1:11:28Speaker 03

  and escape. It is, if we can evade or escape any threat without having to confront it, it's a win. I told you that time about getting shot at with a shotgun. I was pissed because I didn't get to shoot the guy back. And went back to the PD and I'm throwing shit and whatever. And, and my sergeant said, hey, man, you won. You didn't get shot at, or you didn't get shot. He's in jail. You won. Well, that's kind of the way you have to look at that stuff in protection work. It's like, hey, let's, let's evade and escape. And so things are set up that way. And so you have where Charlie sits and then you have a guy right next to

• 1:12:12Speaker 03

  him. And that person's solely responsible for in times of need, pushing him, moving him, getting him out of that line of fire or that, that those actions, you know, escaping, evade, throwing him into that exfil vehicle that's parked right behind where we're at. And then you'll see, we ran two double, double barricades. And those barricades were presidential style barricades. They're hooked in the same kind you see the secret service use. And so we have an outer layer and that first layer is just let everybody know, hey, you can't cross this. And they're physically, you know, keeps them from, from pushing over them. And if somebody comes over the top of them, you can see it just from the mere elevation change.

• 1:12:54Speaker 03

  And then we create a secondary row of them with a gap in the middle of it. And that gap in the middle, though we didn't like it, he liked that because that was able to show, hey, there's nothing between us. Right? There's nothing between us that's carry out this conversation. But, so I have two guys that are at that gap. And they come up and one of them's a measure of a man who has physical capabilities that that are incredible. And, um, and then the one on the right side is a jujitsu guy, a world renowned professor. And, and so their job is if somebody tries to press through that gap or get close to him, then, um, they're going to hold them up.

• 1:13:40Speaker 03

  And then just off their flanks are two other guys and Blake and Blake. And those guys' sole job is to control access into that alley. And also if somebody tries to breach the integrity of those two guys, they're there to apply violence so that they can hold that and not, not, we, we won't weaken our stance. So those jobs are response to apply violence on those people that are trying to weaken our stance. And then they're also access control into that little alley we've created. That alley creates a secondary gap, but it also allows us to vet people. Make sure, make, nope, you can't bring packages in, uh, no water bottles, uh, you know, check

• 1:14:25Speaker 03

  for protrusions, all that. And so when they come through there and they're the gatekeeper there, right? So on that one side, he comes in, he makes sure. And then they come down, they passes off to the next guy and he comes up to the microphone and speaks. And then when he's done, he goes out the other side and that guy makes sure he moves on. Uh, and then that guy Blake on the other side makes sure he goes all the way out. And so they, they have, those, those guys are dual rolled, where, nope, they're there. If these guys have problems, they're going in to apply violence so that we don't lose any integrity of our protection so we can facilitate escape. And then there are also gatekeepers. Mm-hmm. And then you get deeper in the crowd and there's the guys that what they're looking for is

• 1:15:10Speaker 03

  wa- walk-ups, the guys that are walking up close. They're in the crowd. They're in the crowd. Playing close. Yeah, they're playing close, they're working in the crowd. And Rick's over there, Rick's, Rick's job is to watch what's going on here and then turn and apply and look at the line. And you will, you look for things like military age males that aren't having social contact with other people. Right? You know, so they're up there, but there's no looking around, there's no talking, they got prey gaze on, on, on the guy who's talking, no blinking, so there's, there's a hard prey gaze, no blinking, or when you get closer, excessive blinking. And so that's a good tell right there of a pre-incident indicator of violence.

• 1:15:55Speaker 03

  These guys are out there doing that, all of them are doing it in real time. And so, and you're looking for that. And how many of those guys over there? Uh, we have, in that, so far, we've gone through, uh, one, two, three, four, five, six. Six. Alright, and then, so then, we got those guys out in the crowd. We got Scott working it over on the flank to make sure people, uh, from above are not throwing rocks down on people. Chris is over there with them. You got, uh, Justin and Alex holding that hard line. You got response to violence guys right here. You got intel gatherer, a guy out here and making sure there's no walk-ups and/or people that would walk up and physically want to apply violence in close proximity.

• 1:16:39Speaker 03

  And then you start getting, we had to rotate some guys, uh, because we had people coming in and exactly doing that. Started pushing up signs, uh, started chanting, started creating distraction and, and, and making problems. So we pushed a couple of guys over just to keep an eye on that. And, and those are guys are doing direct reporting. So they're the ones that are saying, hey, uh, it's 14 of them, or then, you know, they're just doing signs and so they're giving us real intel in real time. And, and these are also the guys that, that they're working the outfield and the, the, these guys are see, they're out there for a reason. These are seasoned guys, these 30-year cops that have, had shown, and not cops that are just in there checking boxes.

• 1:17:24Speaker 03

  These are guys that went to work every day and they're like, my job's to catch bad guys. How do you catch bad guys? By doing work. They're, they're work finders. And so that's why I put them out there, because they know how to go out and find work. They're not going to wait for work to come to them, because it's too late then. An example of that was, um, before it's even over with, I mean, before it even started, we put those guys out in the crowd and, and they're walking around, presence patrol, gathering information. And we saw some guys that were standing up in one, not, not in the Sorensen Center to Lucy, but another area. And it was a guy that was in his 40s that, um, looked like he wasn't, he obviously wasn't a student or was too old to be a student.

• 1:18:09Speaker 03

  He had a backpack, no socialization, wasn't talking to other people. And so we went up and do contacting conversation. Hey Hal, what's going on? Uh, you know, what brought you here today? And, and then we did that several times and then we turned all that information over to the FBI.

• 1:18:25Shawn Ryan?

  Is that the guy that was, is this the guy that stood up? Okay, we'll get to that.

• 1:18:34Speaker 03

  We'll get to that. And so those guys are in real time out in the crowd, because that's our area of responsibility, reporting real-time intel to us.

• 1:18:44Shawn Ryan?

  So you got, you got, if I were to, if I had a schematic of this, of the venue right now, which we'll, we'll put one up. I mean, you have this entire venue broken into zones.

• 1:18:54Speaker 03

  Zones.

• 1:18:55Shawn Ryan?

  You have people scanning.

• 1:18:58Shawn Ryan?

  Different people scanning, every every zone's covered from scanning, not only do you not have, not only do you not just have scanning, you also have actual plainclothes, security professionals within the crowd.

• 1:19:11Speaker 03

  We're we're all dressed like, you know, we're just wearing regular clothes. We're not wearing suits and

• 1:19:17Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I guess I meant detached from the detail. Nobody really knows that they're in the security

• 1:19:22Speaker 03

  I mean, they look at, they're not, you know, they all have the look, right? But they're they're not college kids.

• 1:19:28Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:29Speaker 03

  They're they're all tasked with an active responsibility for that area of responsibility, and then they overlap. So those areas of responsibility overlap. They don't go 200 meters out, because there's a saying that in these guys, I always talk to them about it, we train to it, is um, you have your area of responsibility, but if you're looking out all over this, you're not going to see anything. You got to look at less so you can see more.

• 1:19:57Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:19:57Speaker 03

  And so you pare down what you're looking at, and you pare down through that area of responsibility so you can see the things that are going on. And once that's cleared, you move to the next one. But if you're just looking out at the mountainside, all you're going to see is the mountainside.

• 1:20:10Shawn Ryan?

  And the rooftops were supposed to be covered from the police drones.

• 1:20:14Speaker 03

  PD said, I got you covered.

• 1:20:16Shawn Ryan?

  I've got you covered.

• 1:20:17Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:20:18Shawn Ryan?

  And so that zone was dropped.

• 1:20:21Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:20:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so that's that's the the assignment of our team, um, you know.

• 1:20:31Speaker 03

  Personal security detail is just that, personal. Our our mathematics are, there's 3,000 people within 50 meters. Right? And so we're working that, and then we also, and then you have that, but then you also have the guys that are inside that bubble, and then I'm off to the right of it. In my area right there is command and control. It's say, man, we're looking a little weak over here, or a guy's reporting in, I need assistance over here, right? Can you see this? I can't see that. And so we're working in real time on on comms for that. And or helping fill in a spot, somebody gets out of hand, I don't run over and jump

• 1:21:14Speaker 03

  on Blake and help Blake because I know Blake's a big boy and he can handle himself. I go backfill in where Blake just left so that we're not leaving something open to go address a threat, you know? And so unless it's something catastrophic, obviously, and then you saw in the video where something catastrophic happens, there's no chatter needed, there's no talk to be needed. Every guy's done that. We practiced that. And there was a radio personality, I won't even say his name because he's not worth it, but he came out and he's like, "Look at this. These guys are like a football team. You can tell they were zipping and zapping. You can tell they rehearsed this. You can tell they were staged.

• 1:21:59Speaker 03

  This was staged." And I'm like, "Pfft." They didn't even hesitate and he's sitting there just cracking us because our guys didn't run around like with chickens with their head cut off. And I was like, "Yeah, we practiced that."

• 1:22:15Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, it's supposed to be.

• 1:22:16Speaker 03

  It's how, when we train, we have iterations, whether it's PT or medical or shooting, and the guy that finishes last, because everything's a competition, because that breeds near perfection. The guy that finishes last, he has to get carried by the team to the next iteration. And how do we carry him? The same way we carried Charlie. So that's been done literally hundreds of times. And so you don't need to talk about what you need to do when you know what you need to do.

• 1:22:52Shawn Ryan?

  Was there anything strange, anything stand out, anything at all? Or did this just, you know, once you guys were in place, once the event had started, Charlie was speaking, I mean, is there anything that seemed out of place at all?

• 1:23:07Speaker 03

  Well, we do the arrival and we were supposed to do a meet and greet when he first arrived. And that meet and greet was in a hard room. But the timeline was a little off, so...

• 1:23:20Speaker 03

  He decided, or they radioed to us, "Hey, meet and greet's gonna be off, and so we're gonna run in and use the restroom real quick, and, uh, and then we're gonna go straight to the tent." And so that was, that was a call off, but that's one of those things. It's not abnormal and we're used to that, so, but it doesn't change the plan other than we're going to a known, somebody's gonna receive him over there. Uh, everything's clear, which it was. Um, so we had a guy back by the restrooms to receive him. I had the door to pop it open. He walks in, he goes, "Hey, Brian, did you get any sleep?" Because he, we just got back from that, uh, South Korea, Japan. And I said, "A little bit." And the last thing he ever said to me was, "It's gonna be a good day." He said, "Good." I said, "A little bit." He said, "Good, it's gonna be a good day."

• 1:24:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, and so, uh, we, uh, we, um, used the restroom and then we did a couple meet and greets with some kids that were student volunteers, uh, just by, by that, uh, tape. You know, and so we did a hard line to keep people from walking up. Uh, and then we proceeded right to the tent. And so he starts throwing out the hats, which is a thing of his. Guys are already in place at that time. We're comms, we're calling in, "Hey, walking up." Uh, you know, five seconds, 10 seconds. Uh, they come up, crowd reacts, and then everybody goes to looking in their area of responsibility, um, for, you know,

• 1:24:49Speaker 03

  walk-ups, guns, uh, people throwing things, stuff like that. And that would be the area right in front of them.

• 1:24:56Shawn Ryan?

  And with the, just one more thing to cover, the evacuation routes. I mean, we had already covered, you guys have been there. You'd had a presence there for two weeks prior to the event. Do you have the routes to all the venues that, specific, more specifically, the hospital? Do you have multiple routes?

• 1:25:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, so what we do on that one is, um, and, uh, we're not there for two weeks, you know, but we start working it for two weeks. And that all gets plugged in. You know, where, where are we going? And, and the, the one that we went to, um, was the closest one. But it was a level three. Yeah, we knew that. Um, the, the next closest one was another seven minutes away. We're going to the closest one, yeah, and we beelined it to there. And I'll get into how we got there and what we did on the way in a minute. But yeah, all that's plugged in, you know, all that is information and it's known. And then we have a guy that even though that route's pre-done, even though that's known, we still have a guy in there that's calling it out in real time on that right side.

• 1:25:57Speaker 03

  I mean, he's nav and that nav is important, you know, because the guy's driving is driving and we needed a, Justin expert drove that day, like, man, yeah, incredible. And so, yeah, all that's known beforehand. And so when people said, oh, you should have an ambulance there. It's like, well, one, I can't make the city put an ambulance there. Now, there is a Utah law that says for mass gatherings like that, a Utah law says that for mass gatherings, a health officer needs to be assigned. I don't assign them. The PD does, whoever does. And then it says, in that law, it says that they may determine where an ambulance is

• 1:26:42Speaker 03

  on standby. And I'm like, okay, well, they did have standby UTV medical there. But I can't make them make that, right? And first rule of emergency medicine, when EMT goes, because I've done this, if you don't walk into the room when you're doing your skills portion and say, hey, is the scene safe? They fail you and you're done. And so those medics that were around that buggy were nowhere to be found. Why? Because they're taking cover like everybody else. And so, and the type of wound that we had, it's not a weight to the ambulance gets there.

• 1:27:21Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:22Speaker 03

  And I'll talk about that and what that docs in and transport and all that. So all that was known and all that's done in the workup.

• 1:27:29Shawn Ryan?

  So looking at hindsight here through the security footage, I mean, it came out that, you know, the shooter went unnoticed at 11:50 a.m. in the grassy area, 12:02 p.m. near the Lou Center, and then at 12:23 p.m. when the shot was fired approximately 142 yards away. What was, you know, Ed, what was your immediate response?

• 1:27:59Speaker 03

  Um, I'll address the, the shooter in the timeline first. It's like, you know what I want to know? I want to know when he got on the roof. Because we're shooters. Um, we're, it's easy because we have a range and our guys do it as a sense of pride. Even though we know, we work on all this other stuff more, the shooting we work on because it's a sense of pride. And then, um, so you look at things like that. In that shooting position,

• 1:28:29Speaker 03

  um, three meters to the right and 10 meters to the left, there was no shot.

• 1:28:35Speaker 03

  And so I want to know when that guy got on the roof.

• 1:28:38Shawn Ryan?

  Let's put the visual of, um, what that looks like on the screen right now.

• 1:28:43Speaker 03

  We took that shot before.

• 1:28:45Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 1:28:45Speaker 03

  We always do. We sat down in the space and we take the shot and send it back to Charlie so that he can see what he's going to see. Yep. And that's a routine thing that we do.

• 1:28:59Shawn Ryan?

  It's a good idea.

• 1:29:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's mental preparation.

• 1:29:03Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:29:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:04Shawn Ryan?

  So here's a visual of what you guys.

• 1:29:08Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:29:09Shawn Ryan?

  Were able to see.

• 1:29:10Speaker 03

  Yep. And so here's my question and, and hopefully it'll come out in timeline.

• 1:29:15Shawn Ryan?

  All right.

• 1:29:17Speaker 03

  That we've all seen the pictures of the guy when he came on through the staircase.

• 1:29:21Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:29:22Speaker 03

  It's like, okay.

• 1:29:25Speaker 03

  There's a difference between a guy walking up and getting on a roof and a guy walking up and getting on a roof. And, and did he run over to a known position? What you're doing there tactically is you're working a loophole. You guys did that on a roof. You bang a hole through one side, you know, uh, and then you set back and you put another hole and you shoot through that hole and that opportunity comes through. Like this is a big loophole.

• 1:29:47Speaker 03

  And so you you tell me you just ran up onto a roof, pop yourself down in in a position that was in a loophole?

• 1:29:55Shawn Ryan?

  Can you can you describe that loophole again, real quick, just now that we have the visual up so people can see it?

• 1:30:01Speaker 03

  So you you you get up on this Swanson Center, I mean, not Swanson, Lucy Center, that's behind the Swanson Center. And so from where we're sitting, where we're standing, we can't see it.

• 1:30:11Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:30:12Speaker 03

  One, it's not our area responsibility, so that's why we're not looking there. First of all, we're looking at threats right in front of us. You see, how many threats do you have in front of you right here?

• 1:30:20Shawn Ryan?

  About.

• 1:30:21Speaker 03

  Three thousand.

• 1:30:22Shawn Ryan?

  Three thousand.

• 1:30:23Speaker 03

  Right, and so that's what we're looking at. And then it's kind of like, you could be in in front of an eighteen thousand foot mountain, and there's a thirty six thousand foot mountain behind it, you're not going to see it.

• 1:30:35Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:30:36Speaker 03

  And so we have to be cognizant of that. And then if he would have stopped just a little bit to the right, he wouldn't have been able to see it because the the Swanson Center would have been in the way.

• 1:30:48Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, you can, it's a very specific point. It's not just, which is what I thought. I thought it was just climb on the roof and you've got the vantage point very much like upper PA.

• 1:30:59Speaker 03

  You're telling me there's enough blind ass luck that you ran up there, didn't crawl, uh, you didn't, uh, you didn't get up, he didn't get up there like the secondary guy that tried to shoot Trump, where he was bugged down in the weeds for a while. This was a boom on, boom, run to, boom, take the shot. And it's like, did you get all that off?

• 1:31:25Shawn Ryan?

  It had to have been rehearsed to find that, to find that, which, which I believe you said is basically a, what, did you say seven foot, seven foot vantage point, basically, had?

• 1:31:38Speaker 03

  Oh, I'd have to.

• 1:31:39Shawn Ryan?

  It's small, whatever.

• 1:31:40Speaker 03

  It's small.

• 1:31:41Shawn Ryan?

  There's the visual, who gives a fuck? It's a small, small area.

• 1:31:45Speaker 03

  It's not something, and then.

• 1:31:46Shawn Ryan?

  You would have to search for that. You would have to search for that vantage point if you didn't know. So it would be great to see the footage, maybe it's out there, of him running straight to the point, or did he search around looking for it?

• 1:32:00Speaker 03

  That's exactly what I want to know. Do do we have?

• 1:32:02Shawn Ryan?

  It'd be great if that chief of police would have put that fucking drone up.

• 1:32:05Speaker 03

  We'd have had it. Or I'd have flown that drone up his ass if we could have had one.

• 1:32:14Speaker 03

  So it's that's what those are questions I have. Those are tactical questions. I mean, we we make our guys do that kind of stuff all the time. Yep, nope, you're gonna run 300 yards, you're gonna jump over this wall, you're gonna come home and you're gonna take this shot with ours is about 35 foot declination at 200 yards. And you see guys that are even trained Miffit every once in a while. And people are like, oh, that's an easy whip at 142. I'm like, yeah, the shot itself, but you're talking about old men that shoot stuff all sandbags. You and I both know, under duress, accurate shots are different.

• 1:32:49Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm. It's not a 142 yards is not a difficult shot with a with a with a magnified

• 1:32:59Speaker 03

  Not at all.

• 1:32:59Shawn Ryan?

  optic. It becomes more difficult when you're winded, when you're climbing, when you're running, when you are nervous.

• 1:33:06Speaker 03

  Visual noise all in front of you.

• 1:33:09Shawn Ryan?

  When you're wondering if anybody else is seeing you. I mean, there's a lot of induced stress. And, you know, and I just want to, you know, I mean, we're looking at this thing right now, this first person view of what it looked like from under the tent. And I mean, I don't know how long he was in that gap for, but it didn't sound like it was very long. And you have 3000 other threats that you're looking at the rooftop supposedly being covered by the police. Maybe it would have been a good idea to make confirm that the police had the drones up. But I mean, you are talking to the chief of police, you would think that he would have to fuck the drones up.

• 1:33:45Speaker 03

  We knew there were no drones, but then somebody earlier that day flew a drone up.

• 1:33:50Shawn Ryan?

  Correct.

• 1:33:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:51Shawn Ryan?

  I did. So actually, you probably wouldn't have confirmed because there are drones up.

• 1:33:56Speaker 03

  We didn't know where it came from. And we're like, what's the deal with this now? Um, it's not uncommon for the audio, the video team to throw a drone up and then take a quick shot. And we've had that before. Now, their drones are different because they use those little bitty ones. And so they're not covered under the requirements. And so it's like, again, um, yeah, you're right. We we.

• 1:34:26Speaker 03

  Do I need to call a grown ass man and say, hey, are you doing your job?

• 1:34:31Speaker 03

  Do I need to do that?

• 1:34:32Shawn Ryan?

  You shouldn't.

• 1:34:34Speaker 03

  You know, this is,

• 1:34:37Speaker 03

  you know, it's.

• 1:34:39Shawn Ryan?

  Especially a man in that position.

• 1:34:41Speaker 03

  And it's like, hey, man, I'm not a fan, but you know, Bill Belichick, one for a reason. He told his people, hey, do your job. And hey, if you don't want to do your job, that's fine. Do the job you said you were gonna do. How about that one? So that's kind of where our guys are set up on there. And then I was to Charlie's right.

• 1:35:04Shawn Ryan?

  There were a lot of, there's a lot of chatter on the internet about hand and arm signals, you know, from the security team. There's been concerns about it from my own personnel that work here. I've worked security details.

• 1:35:22Shawn Ryan?

  Done a lot of sniper work.

• 1:35:23Speaker 03

  Did you ever use hand and arm signals?

• 1:35:25Shawn Ryan?

  I use hand and arm signals every single time on every detail, everywhere I went. And, you know, one of the rumors was, oh, you know, he's got the ball cap. He did the ball cap wiggle. That's, that's the Marine Corps sniper. I've done a lot of sniper operations. Nobody wears ball caps.

• 1:35:44Speaker 03

  So you're.

• 1:35:44Shawn Ryan?

  So.

• 1:35:45Speaker 03

  So that was my lead question. You, you ever use hand signals? And it's like, yes.

• 1:35:49Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:35:50Speaker 03

  Were your.

• 1:35:51Shawn Ryan?

  And you get, you had already established, I'm just, I'm gonna cover for you.

• 1:35:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:55Shawn Ryan?

  Because that, this is a rumor that I just fucking hate.

• 1:35:59Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:35:59Shawn Ryan?

  Because that is what it takes. You can't be on the radio all the time because you're tying the net up. We had already established that you had other security professionals within the crowd that you're trying to communicate with, and that's how you do it. That is how you do it.

• 1:36:17Speaker 03

  Well, I'll, I'll speak to this one. Um, you're using hand signals or if you were to use hand signals, and those are an option, especially like under MBG or things like that. Uh, one, are those hand signals, normal ones that you would see during normal gesticulation? Are those definitive hand signals?

• 1:36:37Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:36:38Speaker 03

  They're definitive so that they can't be confused with a guy scratching his ass.

• 1:36:41Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:36:42Speaker 03

  And so that's the first one. The second one is that hand signal. When a bubble team is there, we're not using hand signals. Snapper details, absolutely. Why? Because you can see that. Are we looking around at each other, looking for hand signals? We're looking in the front, in our area of responsibility. If we needed to relay a message, then we would, hey, I hear on comms. And/or we're notorious for, if I need to get somebody's attention on the team, I'm not going to sit there and use a hand signal if he's in my line of sight. I'm just going to go like that. He's going to look up and I'm going to go.

• 1:37:24Speaker 03

  And so if I looked up and did a hand signal on the team and did that or that, he's going to look at me like, so what do you want me to do then?

• 1:37:35Speaker 03

  So for that, that's not good communication. It has to be definitive. It has to be necessary. It could be an acknowledgement. Absolutely. Yep. Get me out of here. Yep. You're right.

• 1:37:51Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Yeah. And what you're doing there is deliberate. Yeah, these are deliberate. You know? Yeah. So, no, we don't use hand signals on that one. We didn't use hand signals that day. We've never used hand signals other than the generalists.

• 1:38:09Speaker 03

  Here, two people, here. You know, none of that was done. None of that was done. You had Frank Turk and people messing with him because he adjusted his hat. It's like, okay. Substantiate. All right, so he touched his hat.

• 1:38:29Speaker 03

  There were a line of people in the front and all the other people that also did all kinds of things before that. It's like, everybody's subject to that. I get it. Man, I'm a huge, and I'm not a conspiracy theory guy, but I do believe that there are things out there bigger than you and I that are in operations. It's a fact. I also am a huge believer in the First Amendment. And so these people that are out there saying all this. Back up. Why is the First Amendment so, so important? Because back in the day, when our founding fathers said, "Men, why do we need this amendment

• 1:39:14Speaker 03

  first?" Because a voice is an arms for people that don't have arms. That's what it was for. It was a collective or a single voice could be powerful to a hierarchy of people that can't be conquered with an arm. So we have to have this voice and we have to protect this voice at all costs. And they said, and they wanted us to have that. And that's why they put it first. And it should be used as a shield. Well, nowadays, with the media and now social

• 1:39:50Speaker 03

  media, that right has been used as a sword. And the sword of public opinion. It's like, "Well, let's just put a bunch of lies out there and claim First Amendment, and we can say whatever we want." And it's like, when's that stop? And literally, whatever you want. You've seen some of the idiocy out there. Palm gun, exploding microphone, hand signals. It's like, you don't even, it doesn't even have to be true, and it doesn't matter. And

• 1:40:30Speaker 03

  so you're just using that First Amendment as a sword and not a shield. And we've got to step back at that and look at it. I was talking to you guys earlier, and I was like, "At some point, you put those people in the Wayback Machine." And the Wayback Machine is, you take them to 1985. And when people said something that was untrue about you or your family, and they said something bad about you that other people heard, you split their lip. There's a consequence. An immediate consequence. Not a consequence that comes through a lawsuit three and a half years later. An immediate consequence, so that a level of respect is gained. And

• 1:41:11Speaker 03

  then also, "Hey, if you do this again, I'll see you next time as well." At some point, some people need to be put in the Wayback Machine. Definitely not going to disagree with you on that one. So let's talk about the...

• 1:41:30Shawn Ryan?

  The immediate response, let's get back to that. Could you tell it was gunfire?

• 1:41:35Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:41:36Shawn Ryan?

  How could you tell?

• 1:41:37Speaker 03

  Um, I've been around gunfire my whole life. That's the first one. And so, uh, and there's a, there's a different type of gunfire, right? Uh, we were at Berkeley last night. And, um, it's a different sound. You give you an attribution of sound. And so you're used to it. And, um, uh, in, in having a range and, and so you're around it and you, you even get to like, well, that was a rifle, that's a pistol, that's a big boy rifle, that's subsonic. I mean, you, you can PID all those with your ear, you know? I'm no sniper, but you're out there hanging out with those guys and you get that sniper's ear pretty quick because they'd say, oop, hear that?

• 1:42:22Speaker 03

  That's what that is.

• 1:42:25Speaker 03

  And so, um, uh, I've got my back to Charlie about, I don't know, less than 10 meters off to his right. And, um, my area of responsibility, just we had a big, a lot of people coming up some staircases there and it was starting to fill in. And, and so I was watching that and, um,

• 1:42:48Speaker 03

  I remember I heard the gunfire and then, um, I don't know if you've heard this, but I heard that bullet slap him. And so, um, so you hear two sounds actually. And so you hear, uh, the, the actual shot and then you hear the bullet hit him in the neck, like you hear it. And so in, in, in my head, I had an attribution to that. Oop, I know what that is. And so, um, I turned and, uh, at the, when I turned, tried to run and that's when Dan grabbed him. And, I mean, this is a live fire event. It's not, everybody, everybody thinks in hindsight, well, this is a one-shot assassination. No, in, in our heads... There's fire. You don't know what that is.

• 1:43:32Speaker 03

  There's fire. There's, there's, there's more to come, right? And so, uh, Dan, uh, uh, grabs Charlie and then. Who's Dan? Dan was the guy standing right next to Charlie, uh, when he got shot on the stage. And then I was to the right of Dan. Okay. And so, uh, he grabs him and then I turn and see him start to the ground. But then I'm just thinking gunfire and then, and he's leading to the ground. Cause I'm on his right where he was shot right here in the left of his neck. And so I jumped down on top of Charlie to cover him because where we're at, it's concealment at best.

• 1:44:16Speaker 03

  It's a tabling with cloth on it. So it's not hard cover. Uh, so and guys, our guys will start piling back in and they're down putting a, a human shield around him. But it's still just concealment. It's not cover. And so I initially dove down on top of him and, and just was on him almost face to face. And then, and when I was doing that, I went down, I could see the wound. And so I immediately shoved my hand into the wound to stop, uh, the bleeding. Just trying to find the pressure and it was coming out still and I'm on top of him like close. And it was still coming out enough that it, I guess it, it squirted through my fingers and I could taste it on my lips.

• 1:45:00Speaker 03

  And so I was like, man, this, this is a bad wound, right? And so, um, I was just pushing that and I don't, I don't know at that time. I know when you look at the clock, I was on him within five seconds, uh, and had my hands in him. And then I don't know when I put the first, uh, piece of medical on him. It was sometime after that, uh, cause it, uh, I carry it right here and that's why you carry it on you. Hmm. You gotta have it there. So, but then I, I remember pulling back away. Um, and, uh, thinking, damn, this is bad. Like it, it's coming out.

• 1:45:40Speaker 03

  And, uh, I don't remember saying this, but the guys told me, and you can kind of see it on the video. I said, uh, prep the car.

• 1:45:49Speaker 03

  And I just probably, and you see the two guys just take off. And that car's prepped and positioned, but why, I mean, doors are open, the whole deal. And so, and then so we're doing a pressure control there and it's a carotid artery. So you can't put a tourniquet on it, obviously. And in my head, I'm like, you know, pack pressure, pray, man. These are what you can do for that wound. But then, so I'm on top and then I told the guys, we got to X fill. We're all out here in the open. We're trying to, we're trying to give wound care and we got to get off this X. All right. And so, but I just said, we're X filling.

• 1:46:31Speaker 03

  And so we got up, I think it was like 15, 16 seconds from the time the shot happened to the time we were picking him up.

• 1:46:38Shawn Ryan?

  Fifteen to 16 seconds?

• 1:46:40Speaker 03

  That's what it was, yeah. And so.

• 1:46:42Shawn Ryan?

  That's fast.

• 1:46:43Speaker 03

  And this is horrible, but.

• 1:46:46Shawn Ryan?

  That is fast to get an initial assessment, pull the hole, pick him up, move him.

• 1:46:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so it's, it's just like, dang. And it's some horrible realities of it too, that like, I told the guys this and I haven't.

• 1:47:15Speaker 03

  You, when I jumped down on him, he, his, he had doll's eyes.

• 1:47:22Speaker 03

  And so I was like, man, these are wounds incompatible with life.

• 1:47:27Shawn Ryan?

  You know?

• 1:47:33Shawn Ryan?

  You want to take a break? Let's take a break.

• 1:47:40Shawn Ryan?

  You want a minute?

• 1:47:42Speaker 03

  Good.

• 1:48:12Shawn Ryan?

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• 1:50:51Shawn Ryan?

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• 1:51:31Shawn Ryan?

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• 1:51:49Speaker 03

  Sorry about that man

• 1:51:50Shawn Ryan?

  Dude

• 1:51:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah

• 1:51:52Shawn Ryan?

  It's fine

• 1:51:53Speaker 03

  It's mainly the

• 1:51:59Speaker 03

  It's going through your head like I said I was like man this this is a bad wound it's it's not compatible with life and that's an old medical phrase that you use for reporting later

• 1:52:09Shawn Ryan?

  I mean I hate to get graphic but that's

• 1:52:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, no, I

• 1:52:13Shawn Ryan?

  That's how you do it

• 1:52:13Speaker 03

  Absolutely

• 1:52:14Shawn Ryan?

  I remember

• 1:52:15Speaker 03

  Yeah

• 1:52:16Shawn Ryan?

  The eye thump

• 1:52:17Speaker 03

  Yep, and so

• 1:52:18Shawn Ryan?

  There's no movement after you thump the eye that is it's done

• 1:52:21Speaker 03

  Same thing and so at the time I mean I broke down just then but I think some some of my close friends had told me I didn't I didn't weep a tear after that for like three weeks not

• 1:52:36Speaker 03

  You know, it's like, hey, man, you know, it's like, yeah, there's a time for that. You know, these guys, me, the guys I'm with, we've seen a lot of the effects of violence, messed up kids, guys that stick things into kids and just horrible people, right? And you compartmentalize that junk, right? So that you can, you got a job to do. And then sometimes those things, when you open that box, they come out, right? And that was one of them. So, you know, I'm sure it's good for me at some point. But, so we get back to that. And so I'm down on him and I don't know if I, when it sprayed me in the face,

• 1:53:21Speaker 03

  it caused me to flinch back or what. But then sometime around then, I said, I prepped the car and you see two of the guys just take off towards the car. And then Gibby and Rick and Dan and me, we, I said, that's Exfil now, you know? And so we get up and the timeline on that's like 15, 16 seconds, something like that, where you can see we're prepping. But the problem is direct pressure, right? So when you're in a medical deal and you've been in, I've had these before on major accidents and GSWs, when you show up on calls, is you can't give direct pressure and move, right? In Exfil and you can't, you have to have counters, like giving CPR.

• 1:54:05Speaker 03

  You can't give people CPR like that. You have to have something. So it's like, hey, okay, well, let's just get in the car.

• 1:54:12Shawn Ryan?

  You can't.

• 1:54:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, but then.

• 1:54:14Shawn Ryan?

  You can't apply direct pressure to move either because it's the neck and there goes the airway.

• 1:54:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:54:19Shawn Ryan?

  And it's just, it's damn near the worst.

• 1:54:22Speaker 03

  And then like, and then you don't give first aid when it's raining on you still, right? Or this first shot, second shot, how many more is coming in? So, you know, and so, so I was like, hey, let's just call for Exfil. So I called for Exfil and said, let's go. The guys had prepped the car, so we're carrying. We trained officer down, I don't know how many times or, you know, person down. And we were carrying and you can see it on the video, Rick breaks off at the perfect time. He goes around to the other side, jumps in, we do the drag, don't try to shove the guy in. Half the team pushes in, the other half team dragged from the other side. There's no comms for that. Just knew, he knew that's what we need to do. We've done that. He's done that. We've got careers built on doing that.

• 1:55:08Speaker 03

  Real time and in training. And so guys weren't helping. Justin gets in, he knows his job's a drive. You know, that's his job. Dan jumps in, he knows he's nav. And so we're back there, Rick, we pull him across. Frank Turek, and it just jumps in the back. And so he's a known. So I was like, yep, it's Frank, but I'm not gonna fight him on it. Frank's there because Frank's hurting, you know? And it's one of those things where you have dead kids on calls and you're not supposed to let the crime scene be contaminated, but I'm not gonna deny a parent the ability to come in and say goodbye to their child. And Frank's many times said that Charlie felt like he was his son.

• 1:55:53Speaker 03

  I'm not gonna deny him that. All this is running. And so we get in. Charlie was a big man, long. We kinda laugh about it now, but we get him in and, but the door's not gonna close. We know that. And I just say, go. And we didn't even attempt to close it. I told Justin, go, go, go. So he takes off. Dan's already got the route done. We know that because we've done it. And so we take off in direct action. We get out, out onto the main road and we're in a slick SUV.

• 1:56:36Speaker 03

  No lot sirens and so we're breaking our own intersections. We're cutting our own traffic. We're doing everything ourselves. Justin's driving. I mean, it's, he's a trained driver. I mean, that's what our guys go to driving school for, just for that. It's expensive, it costs a lot, but it's a need. And it paid off because he drove like a champion. Dan's up in there calling out right, lefts. This is next turn, 200 meters, you know, 200 meters left. So he knows exactly where he's going. Rick and I are in the back. And this is where it gets not funny, but he looked back on it now. Um, we, Rick pulls Charlie across and then I'm working off my kit.

• 1:57:21Speaker 03

  And you always, when you build a kit out like that, you build it to where the stuff you need the soonest or most important is on the outside, right? And so all the bleed control is right there in front. So I'm just working out of the, out of the kit right there. And, um, um, so I'm just, you know, packing, pressure, repack, it gets, it gets saturated. You don't take it out, you just keep packing on top of it. The problem is, we're going down the road and Charlie's so tall that his leg, his left leg is down in the door and the door won't close.

• 1:58:02Speaker 03

  And so I'm on my knees with the door open with my butt hanging out of the side and I'm on my knees doing the medical and Justin's driving, you know, we're going sixty, eighty, hundred. And Rick has me across the kit and my shirt so that I can use both hands to do the medical one. So he don't fall out of the fucking car? So I don't fall out. And I just look at him and I don't need to say, you got me? He's got me. I know he's got me. Rick's her brother, he's got the tattoo. And so I was like, he's got me. And so I just, I'm just working medical. And Frank's praying out loud, Rick's praying out loud. But does he have a pulse at this point? Um, so.

• 1:58:47Speaker 03

  And there's no way. It, in a situation like that, I'm not gonna stop and take this. I didn't know if somebody else had one or? No, and so I have SPO2 monitor there, I've got all the stuff for it. I could have put it on, but it's irrelevant. Hmm. It's irrelevant to treating that wound, right? And so I've gotta stop that bleeding. That's my primary thing. And so whether he had a, where he had a pulse then, it's unknown.

• 1:59:18Speaker 03

  The body's an amazing thing that can do things even when it's technically, you know, destroyed. And so my concern is bleed control. And so I'm just, Rick's got me, Justin's driving, world's coming by, I'm working, putting, I ended up putting about thirty-six feet of dressing in him. And then four, four by fours, and then two hemostatic four by fours. Sheesh. And then just pressuring the whole time. So you're adding pressure as much as you can get, pressure, adding pressure.

• 2:00:01Speaker 03

  And so we are heading to the hospital. You know, it's a known, we're heading there, breaking intersections. We picked up a tail from PD somewhere along the way. And I noticed some audio came out about that. And I think they thought it was a secondary person that had been shot. You know, and, and, but we didn't know if it was an active shooter. You know, everybody that says, oh, you should have treated him there and not moved him, stopped the bleed. And I'm like, well, yeah, I know. Same way, I was like, man, if it, no, that's not, medicine doesn't happen on the X. You know, anything, nothing happens. Somebody shoots at you, you get off the X, right? And so, and we didn't have cover.

• 2:00:46Shawn Ryan?

  Just for anybody that's listening, that is rule number one. Law enforcement, military, any, security, anything, get off the X.

• 2:00:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:56Shawn Ryan?

  And so.

• 2:00:56Shawn Ryan?

  More rounds are coming in.

• 2:00:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so we get to the hospital. Actually, we make it to the hospital through the traffic. We've got full wound pack in, we get out and we carry in to the door. Once we make it into the door, we see a gurney on the left-hand side. We put him on a gurney and then I wheel him into a room. I start giving the patient information to the staff there. I end up getting on top of him and cutting the shirt that he had on off, that white freedom shirt. And so I cut it off so they could get to him so that.

• 2:01:42Speaker 03

  I didn't articulate this to them, but I wanted to get that stuff off so they could put a defibrillator on him. And so, and then started talking about pushing drugs. And so I was back and forth with them on drugs and defibrillator. And so then, you know, once you get that shirt off, shirt cut off and moved out of the way, you know, there's enough of medical professionals in there. And so I just want to get out of their way. And so I got out of their way and walked out of the room and stood outside the room and held guard on the outside door of the room so nobody else could come in there.

• 2:02:23Shawn Ryan?

  Covered in Charlie's blood?

• 2:02:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, all over my face. My Rick and I had it all over our arms. Our, from about here down, it was just covered. And, yeah, and it was, yeah, I feel bad for the hospital staff because we showed up looking like that and they didn't know we were coming, even though we had called 911. But I don't know what happened that. So we show up and guys got blood all over their face and carrying a guy with blood solid on my pants and shoes.

• 2:03:09Speaker 03

  And so then I just stood out there and then finally this lady and I, I feel horrible. She came up to me and she said, hey, come with me. And she took me in her room and physically washed my face and my hands and stuff. The nurse that was there at the hospital. So I was like, man, what humanity?

• 2:03:36Speaker 03

  Man.

• 2:03:39Speaker 03

  So, it's, you, you, there was a, you saw a lot of beautiful things. A lot, a lot of beautiful things.

• 2:03:48Speaker 03

  Rick was, Rick was there. Same thing with him. He's, he's going through the same thing. He's covered in it and, and Justin's there. And, um, uh, Dan was there and everybody's got this look of bewilderment like, hey, you know, like, and so I, I told Justin, um, I said, "Check on the men and call your kids."

• 2:04:14Speaker 03

  Cause I was worried about them. Cause when we left, our guys went back into the crowd, cause they didn't know, cause everybody was on the ground. So those guys that were still there, they went back in the crowd searching for other victims. No kidding? Yeah.

• 2:04:31Speaker 03

  Cause they didn't know, cause everybody's just laying there, frozen. And so, once we got out of there, they went back in and started searching for other victims and people that were, had been shot. And so, I, I, I didn't know their status. And it was horrible, compoundingly horrible. Um, when I jumped down on top of Charlie, uh, my phone came out of, uh, right here. And so, I, of course, I just left it. I didn't know it came out. So, I get to the hospital and, uh, um, I don't have the ability to call my children.

• 2:05:11Speaker 03

  Um, and tell them I'm okay, or, uh, my parents, or my fiance. And when I travel abroad, in the old Conis job I do, I have a workup. And it's all the numbers and everything, and I have it hidden and, and so I can call, but Conis job. And, I mean, I, I can still remember numbers from when I was in high school, my friends, but just don't remember numbers nowadays. Mm-hmm. And so, uh, I, uh, I couldn't call them. And so they're at home just suffering, cause I can't call them.

• 2:05:48Speaker 03

  So, and, uh, so I, I said, "Man, I can do better than that," you know? So finally, um, uh, got ahold of my ex-wife, uh, and then said, "Hey," from another, somebody else's phone, uh, I think via like Facebook Messenger or something, I can't remember what it was, but it was like, "Hey, we'll figure this out." And then, uh, uh, I said, "Hey, I'm gonna call, answer the phone." And my daughter answered the phone, and she had already gone to her house waiting to hear something. And, uh, so there's obviously concern in her voice, but, uh, I said, "Hey, I'm good. Uh, I'm fine.

• 2:06:32Speaker 03

  I'll call you when I get a chance." And so I started asking for check-ins for the guys that were still at the scene. Like, "Hey, everybody okay? Uh, read me in, uh, we have other victims, uh, what's going on?" And they got re-tasked. Uh, that same chief of police came out and said, "Hey, y'all hold this crime scene and help us look for, um, uh, other clues." And I'm like, "That's a no-no." But they did it. Uh, and so, uh, they, they, they were back there and then they were just trying to figure things out. And they were there for a while.

• 2:07:10Shawn Ryan?

  Man.

• 2:07:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it was K.I., but, you know, you find chaotic situations, you, you find, uh, uh, ways to control it inside that situation, right?

• 2:07:23Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:07:24Speaker 03

  And they did a good job at that.

• 2:07:26Shawn Ryan?

  You know, there's been a lot of rumors going around about there was no autopsy, none of that. Was there an autopsy?

• 2:07:35Speaker 03

  There was, and I can speak to that. Um, personally, I can speak to that. Uh, the, uh, one, for those people saying it, do it for you. Do it for you to the, the medical examiner's office to Utah County. Get off your lazy ass and do it for you. They may not give you the, uh, autopsy information right now, but they'll certainly tell you, "Yeah, there's an autopsy." That's the first one. Um, the second one was, um... Uh, the, the OR doc, they, well, your question earlier about a pulse, we'll get back to that. Um, and so, uh, they ended up working him in the room and they ended up taking him to the OR, uh, because they got a pulse.

• 2:08:19Speaker 03

  They did get a pulse? They did get a pulse. But Charlie was a healthy man. He, he, he, he, he was very cognizant of his health and he was a strong guy. They've had a pulse? But- How, how, hold on. How long had it been since the shot to the hospital? I have no idea, but you can- I mean, that is a jugular shot. You can be dead. The central nervous system, you're, you got a strong heart, right? And that's what the OR doc told me. Okay. He said, "That's what it was." Holy shit. Yeah. And so, I have no way of, I'm, I'm not a doctor. I just know what he told

• 2:08:59Speaker 03

  me. You know, and so, um, uh, we go to that and, and, and, I'm, I'm sorry, what was your question again? Uh, we were talking about the autopsy. Oh, the autopsy. And so, um, uh, once they came down and said, uh, he didn't make it. And, uh, and, and he talked about, he said, "If he'd have been shot in the OR, I wouldn't have been able to save him." And I was like, I mean, he's just kind of confirming things that I already knew. And so, um, and, and so, I don't know how long, I don't

• 2:09:40Speaker 03

  know what the timeline was, but, um, I want to say, I can't remember who it was, but I, I, I knew. I was like, "We're not going to turn this into some JFK." Um, and I, I specifically asked one of the doctors, I don't know, I remember what she looked like, uh, dark-skinned, uh, um, like, dark hair, probably thirty-five, forty years old. I said, "How long until we can get an autopsy?" And I remember her saying, "A day, a day and a half." And I was like, "Ugh." And so, I mean, she's the boss of that. That's just information. And so, um, uh, I remember, uh, I was like, "Man, that's a long time."

• 2:10:23Speaker 03

  We need to get this autopsy done and done right. So that there's not some conspiracy. So I mean, you're starting to think forward to that. And so I remember I was standing next to the Chief of Staff and the Vice President called. And the Vice President asked him, what do you need? And then he looked at me and said, what do we need? And I said, we need an autopsy now. So for these people that are saying there wasn't one done, go away. It was done. It was done. Do it for you. Yeah. Get the report when it comes out. It was done.

• 2:11:07Speaker 03

  I, it was done. Yeah. And, and, and the, um, the OR doc released statements regarding, and there has been statements regarding the bullet and the travel. Oh, there should have been a blowout and I was like, there wasn't, there wasn't an exit wound. There wasn't one. I was checking for that in the ride. Yeah. And so people are like, yes, it's completely impossible. And I was like, man, I've seen bullets do weirder things on people. Uh, and so all I know is what I saw. Mm hmm. There wasn't an exit wound. And so I know there was an autopsy done.

• 2:11:50Speaker 03

  One, because, um, we requested it, they were there. And the second one was, um, the local SO, and I believe it was the state police. They did the body transfer that night through the, um, either ME's office or funeral home to the ME that night and took them there. So, yeah, for them to, to say that somebody broke the rules or turning point, didn't follow the rules, that's lies. It's conjecture and it's lies. It's, it's all that's people is when people look at themselves. Yeah, it happened.

• 2:12:38Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think that the entry wound looked like an exit wound?

• 2:12:42Speaker 03

  No, it was an entry wound.

• 2:12:44Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you say that?

• 2:12:45Speaker 03

  Um, so one, there wasn't an exit wound because I remember rolling his head over and cleaning it so I could see if there was an exit wound. And then I was having to open the wound up some to get more and packing. Uh, if you've ever done an exit wound, um, it's not that hard. It's a lot bigger.

• 2:13:09Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:13:10Speaker 03

  And so, um, you can feel it when you're, you, you, you know, the rule kind of dumb on that one is you don't want to make it bigger. But you've got to get, keep packing it in there and so, yeah, it, I've, I've heard and seen them all, like,

• 2:13:28Speaker 03

  there was a guy that said, you know, that the mic blew up and it was a bomb.

• 2:13:32Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, we've, we were, I was gonna wait, yeah, there is a, there is a guy online that is saying that the, that the microphone may have had some type of explosive projectile inside of it. So it wrapped around the neck and created a hole? I, that's the thing that I couldn't, I, I could, I just couldn't wrap my head around either is the, the accuracy that would have to take place from an explosion to actually get you in the neck. But then other people are saying that, that there was maybe, that, that, that maybe the explosion killed him and that in fact, there's actually some, uh, some camera footage that somebody has done some type of assessment on. But I mean, you cut his shirt off.

• 2:14:13Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:14:14Shawn Ryan?

  Did you see any burn marks?

• 2:14:16Speaker 03

  So that's my-

• 2:14:16Shawn Ryan?

  Any, any, any indication of any type of explosion?

• 2:14:20Speaker 03

  Back it up even further to that, you've been around explosives and shaped explosives and, and stuff like that. It's like, what do you have when you have that? They had that down to like frames, right? Where did, where was the flash?

• 2:14:35Speaker 03

  If, if that was an explosion, where was the flash? You have oxygen exchanged to create the explosion, where was the flash?

• 2:14:40Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:14:40Speaker 03

  Where was the char?

• 2:14:44Speaker 03

  It, it didn't exist. And so-

• 2:14:47Shawn Ryan?

  Do you know? If his equipment is assessed before it's put on?

• 2:14:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's actually held up there. Um, that company that is a contract subcontracting company for them, they hold that all up there because, you know, and, and they're around it, almost guarding it because people will steal it.

• 2:15:07Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:15:07Speaker 03

  And so, and it's inside the non-permeable zone.

• 2:15:12Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:15:12Speaker 03

  So, nobody has access to it. It's set up in there, even the boxes are kept in there. And so, it's inside that, and so, it's on them. And then, you can see, they walk up and actually pin it on him. So, it's, that system is integratized also. And, and again, that's a reach. Go all the way back to where's the explosion? You got frame by frame.

• 2:15:39Shawn Ryan?

  I'm, you know, when, when that theory came out, I mean, I, I, I mean, I don't think it's, I don't think it's necessarily out of the question. I mean, we know about the pagers.

• 2:15:48Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 2:15:48Shawn Ryan?

  You know, but, you know, I mean, the way I looked at it was, he was wearing a, a, a loose fitting T-shirt.

• 2:15:56Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:15:57Shawn Ryan?

  That had a, I believe, the road mic with the magnet, you know, strapped onto his shirt.

• 2:16:02Speaker 03

  On the other side.

• 2:16:03Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. He's moving around. And so, that, you know, that microphone, if it was a projectile, it would have had to have been pointed at the exact same spot, which would have been impossible to do with a loose shirt.

• 2:16:15Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:16:15Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and so, and then, the, the, I mean, the, there would have been an entry wound. It wouldn't have gone to the other side of the neck. You know, but it, and then, you know, there was a, oh, well, it was a trigger man, you know, with a device to initiate the blast. And it's, but still though, I mean, to have him moving around like this in his shirt, his loose shirt to have a piece of weight while he's moving around, I mean, you just, you could not.

• 2:16:47Speaker 03

  Probability.

• 2:16:47Shawn Ryan?

  It would be a coincidence for it to actually happen the way that it did.

• 2:16:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:51Shawn Ryan?

  It would be a coincidence.

• 2:16:52Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:16:52Shawn Ryan?

  It would not be, I, I, I don't think you could chalk that up to skill. Unless, unless the explosion is what killed him, but what you're saying, no, no flash, no blast.

• 2:17:06Speaker 03

  No char.

• 2:17:07Shawn Ryan?

  No char, no burn marks, no, no, no, no.

• 2:17:10Speaker 03

  And that's a real time.

• 2:17:11Shawn Ryan?

  You cut the shirt off, you would have seen it.

• 2:17:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a real time C too. You know, you've seen explosions.

• 2:17:16Shawn Ryan?

  I've seen a lot of explosions.

• 2:17:18Speaker 03

  And so you have those attributions. Where's the attribution to the explosion inside those frames?

• 2:17:24Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:17:24Speaker 03

  That doesn't exist. Doesn't exist. Don't try to pull, make something into nothing. Right. And so I'm, I'm, I'm not saying that we shouldn't look at things by all means.

• 2:17:34Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:34Speaker 03

  We should. I mean, we look at people and press and, and histor- in history of the United States, how valuable they've been. And, and I applaud these guys that are out there humping and working to want to have the truth, but don't say you're searching for the truth when you're lying to get it.

• 2:17:51Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:17:52Speaker 03

  And that's what's happening. Cause you're not searching for the truth, you're searching for clicks.

• 2:17:57Shawn Ryan?

  I think that the people posting these, I don't know, you know, I mean, I have mixed feelings. I think some people are legitimately just trying to figure it out. I think that there are other people that are, um, very obviously making a living off, off of sensationalizing this.

• 2:18:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:18:15Shawn Ryan?

  But, but you know, I mean, in, in, I think we live in a time where people don't, including myself, don't know where to find the truth. They don't know who to believe. They are starting not to even believe their own eyes.

• 2:18:31Speaker 03

  And, and do you blame them?

• 2:18:33Shawn Ryan?

  No, I don't.

• 2:18:33Speaker 03

  Not at all, me neither.

• 2:18:34Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, I don't, I don't. We have zero faith in any of these institutions.

• 2:18:39Speaker 03

  You think about this, there, there is a guy out there and, and he, he, he has a company called Paramount Tactical and, and his name's Gary. And Gary took an ass whipping online because he went out there and said, and he, he did exactly what we're talking about right now and people whipped his ass for telling the truth.

• 2:18:55Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:18:56Speaker 03

  Because he bucked the system.

• 2:18:58Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:18:58Speaker 03

  He said, no, look at this. And he broke it down from a professional standpoint because he has a background in it and a probability standpoint and, and, and man, and I hadn't talked to him and he was like 95% right, even on the medical stuff.

• 2:19:13Speaker 03

  And it's like, but then he took an ass whipping online for it and I sat and watched it from afar. And it's like, so people get chastised for telling the truth. And then you've got, like you said, who do you believe? I mean, our media, they big, big poll, they polled our, our people in the United States. And how many of you believe the media? And it said 70% of them don't believe a word that comes out of the media's mouth. And I'm like, well, let's look at this. If a baker makes bread every day and 70% of his product tastes like crap, how long is he going to be in business? And then why do we keep letting these people be in business? And then, so that's the big media. You think that's worse online?

• 2:19:57Speaker 03

  And then who's to blame? The idiot that's lying?

• 2:20:02Speaker 03

  Or the big Facebooks, Instagrams and Xs that are making money off them lying? And then they're monetizing the lie too. It's, it's kind of like back in the day, you had the National Enquirer that made money offline. They sold the little cheat papers. All these guys are, and these things are our version of National Enquirer and they're monetizing that lie.

• 2:20:24Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:20:25Speaker 03

  But, and I think, man, guys, you're losing the value of how important that is. You could be the Watergate guy that breaks the truth.

• 2:20:36Speaker 03

  But you're taking that away from people.

• 2:20:38Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:20:39Speaker 03

  It's like, be the one that tells the truth.

• 2:20:44Speaker 03

  Be the paramount tactocrat that's willing to take a whipping to tell the truth.

• 2:20:49Shawn Ryan?

  I think, um, you know, I've talked about this a lot recently, but, um, you know, I think, I think you have to be willing to poke holes in your own story. You can poke holes in everybody else's story. And that's fine, but you also have to be willing to poke holes in your own story.

• 2:21:07Speaker 03

  Great way to put it.

• 2:21:08Shawn Ryan?

  You know? You should be poking holes in your own story. If you are really a truth seeker, you should be poking holes in your own story along with everybody else's.

• 2:21:19Speaker 03

  But where's the oversight to do that?

• 2:21:22Shawn Ryan?

  It's gone.

• 2:21:24Speaker 03

  Put a couple guys in the wayback machine and you make it down quick.

• 2:21:27Shawn Ryan?

  That's true. That's true.

• 2:21:31Shawn Ryan?

  You know, you were, something that I forgot to bring up with the, the, the handed arm signal type stuff is that it looked, um, you know, there was a lot of chatter on the internet that you, you took, um, I believe it was a female that handed you some, something.

• 2:21:47Speaker 03

  Handed me something?

• 2:21:48Shawn Ryan?

  On camera was, I believe it was you.

• 2:21:51Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:21:51Shawn Ryan?

  Did anybody hand you anything?

• 2:21:53Speaker 03

  No, no. The only, the only thing that, you know, I did, I remember before Charlie was shot, in my area, um, I saw a little American flag on the ground and people were just walking around it like it was nothing. And I just walked over and picked it up and put it in my pocket. And, and, uh, that's the only thing that, you know, uh, nothing. There was some stuff about the guys that, um, said that, and the FBI called on that, like, hey, I forget which one, you can see one of them do a, a hand motion to another. Did you hand something off? And they were like, no, there wasn't a handoff. There, there wasn't a key exchanged.

• 2:22:33Speaker 03

  Um, Gibby reached back here at one point and like adjusted his radio because when he jumped over the table, you know, it, it partially came loose or something, but, and I, and I asked all the guys, did you guys exchange anything? And like, no. And then you can break down the video, break it down to the point where, do you, you're saying that you saw their hands and what, what got exchanged?

• 2:22:53Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 2:22:54Speaker 03

  There's nothing that got exchanged. Nothing.

• 2:22:56Shawn Ryan?

  Is there a, do we have that footage, Jeremy? Could you pull that up real quick? There it is.

• 2:23:04Speaker 03

  That's Chrissy. Those were mints.

• 2:23:07Shawn Ryan?

  That's, that's, she works there?

• 2:23:10Speaker 03

  She works there.

• 2:23:10Shawn Ryan?

  Those are mints?

• 2:23:11Speaker 03

  Mints.

• 2:23:12Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:23:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I put them in my pocket. She had, she walks around and hands, so she hands out, uh, she's an angel. Uh, she, she takes care of us. She makes sure that there's, uh, we're hydrated. She buys the, the, uh,

• 2:23:28Speaker 03

  you know, the stuff to put in the sodium.

• 2:23:31Shawn Ryan?

  Electrolytes?

• 2:23:31Speaker 03

  Electrolytes to put in the drinks. She walks around and gives us mints, checks on us. Her husband, Angel, does the same thing. And so, yeah, that's who that is. Yeah. Not uncommon. Yep.

• 2:23:44Shawn Ryan?

  There was a man on the team who, after he was shot, I believe he was on the security team, runs towards the vehicles, hangs out outside the vehicles and takes, I believe it was a TikTok selfie video. Do you know who this is? Can you pull this up, Jeremy?

• 2:24:06Speaker 03

  Is it the one where he said Charlie just got shot?

• 2:24:09Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's with the audio visual team. Yeah, it's a company that they contract to shoot the footage. It's also the one, he's the guy that went up and-

• 2:24:23Shawn Ryan?

  There he is, right here.

• 2:24:25Speaker 03

  Yep, yep. They just shot Charlie. They just shot Charlie. They just shot Charlie.

• 2:24:38Speaker 03

  I can tell you. He's the one that, if you see him, he's the one that's running the cameras.

• 2:24:44Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:24:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's the audio visual team guy that's running the cameras. He's also the one that, they said that he was hiding footage or whatever, that he turned over all that footage to the FBI. So-

• 2:24:57Shawn Ryan?

  He did, so this is, this is also the guy that, or was that a security guy? If you look after the event, somebody goes to the camera that was behind Charlie, pulls the camera down-

• 2:25:08Speaker 03

  Same guy.

• 2:25:09Shawn Ryan?

  Looks like he pulls the SD card out.

• 2:25:11Speaker 03

  Same guy.

• 2:25:12Shawn Ryan?

  And that footage is in the hands of the FBI?

• 2:25:15Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 2:25:15Shawn Ryan?

  Wasn't deleted, wasn't erased?

• 2:25:17Speaker 03

  He, he, he actually works for the company called VI. And they do, they're a contract AV video people. And he's not a security guy, he works for the, the security, the VI, the video company.

• 2:25:34Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:25:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, and so, I don't, I don't understand, and, and it's not for me to try to understand-

• 2:25:43Speaker 03

  That part, like the getting on the phone.

• 2:25:47Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:25:47Speaker 03

  Or that, I don't understand that. And you see it a lot nowadays. Tragic things happen.

• 2:25:52Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:53Speaker 03

  Shootouts and people pull their phones out instead of running. And, and so I don't understand that. Uh, that's for him to explain, not me. I know he doesn't work for us. Uh, but I also know from seeing some of the stuff that, um, he's the same guy that took down the cameras and people are like, what's going on here?

• 2:26:11Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:26:12Speaker 03

  You know, and I'm like, well, that's a legitimate ask. That's a legitimate.

• 2:26:15Shawn Ryan?

  I think that too. I don't think that's.

• 2:26:17Speaker 03

  That's a legitimate ask. Hey, and where did that go? And he was interviewed and, um, asked and answered and FBI, and that was all turned over because I asked that question.

• 2:26:33Shawn Ryan?

  These are the, these are the questions that are running rampant on the internet, by the way. So here's, I'm just gonna do.

• 2:26:40Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 2:26:41Shawn Ryan?

  Quick fire here. Did you see any signs of internal leaks or betrayals within TP USA or secure, or the security team that could have facilitated the attack?

• 2:26:52Speaker 03

  No, no. I don't, and here's my deal. That's our job, right? And so if, if they're, if they have some stuff going on inside corporate headquarters, um, that would be unknown to us anyway. And then we're the contractor, uh, it's security contractor, which is our team. And then so that direction comes from Dan and then it comes to us. And, uh, nothing, nothing that would make me believe that, hey, something's afoot here.

• 2:27:26Speaker 03

  So sometimes I wish, no, not wish. It's like, hey, if that was happened, that would be an easier attribution. But I would say this, hey, if you're gonna make that claim, you better be able to back it up with the truth. Because we're talking about allegations that you're making that people are conspiracy or part of a murder.

• 2:27:47Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:27:49Speaker 03

  We're not talking about cheating in a video game or handing cards. And so if, if somebody were to say, one of my guys or an employee, hey, you were part of this murder and you helped conspire, then I would say, I need you to tell me why you said that right now. A definitive, why not now? Not, hmm, it's a possibility.

• 2:28:12Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:13Speaker 03

  And, and if you do, let me hear it. But it better be the truth. And if it's not, there's consequence.

• 2:28:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:22Speaker 03

  And so, and that's, that's why there's punishments for that stuff like that. Do I have faith in the system? I've seen a lot of guilty people walk free because they had money, right? And so I know the system is broken, but you've been around the world. Man, every time I come home from someplace bad, I'm like, dang, we got it good.

• 2:28:51Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:52Speaker 03

  And so, no, I didn't see anything to make it leave that, that came from the inside.

• 2:28:59Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. Why do you believe that the security footage has not been released publicly?

• 2:29:08Speaker 03

  Well.

• 2:29:09Shawn Ryan?

  Obviously FBI is in control of the evidence.

• 2:29:14Speaker 03

  And I'm, I'm, I'm with them on that.

• 2:29:16Shawn Ryan?

  You are?

• 2:29:17Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm with them on that. Man, that video footage or, or really good video footage is, is the truth or as close as we have. And so they came back with that gag order to the counsel and, and, and so they can information share because the judge said there's a volume of evidence, right? A volumous, I think is what he said. And I'm like, okay, cuz we want to protect his right to a fair trial and we don't want to taint a potential jury. And okay.

• 2:29:57Speaker 03

  I get that, but if, if, is there not a balance to that? It's like, I'm not asking you to produce the footage, but maybe give us something that we investigated this claim and then we found this.

• 2:30:12Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:30:13Speaker 03

  And make them put their name on that. I'm with them on that. Give us some information. It's like, you go to public information officer school to be a cop and they tell you, hey, don't go out there and go, this happened. We'll let you know when we figure it out. Cause then you're just like, well, are you capable? Uh, do you know what you're doing? Are you hiding something from us?

• 2:30:35Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:35Speaker 03

  So what do you do? You go out there, even if you can't release the details of it, you go, hey, this happened. We heard this and this is attribution that makes us lead to believe that it was a directed crime and not a random crime. So what you're doing is you're, you're letting people, okay, this is starting to make sense. Give us something.

• 2:30:55Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:56Speaker 03

  Give us something.

• 2:30:57Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, this just comes from institutions hiding things.

• 2:31:05Speaker 03

  And has it happened?

• 2:31:06Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, you know, maybe had they, I don't know, released the Epstein files, maybe there would be a little bit of trust in the institution.

• 2:31:14Speaker 03

  Brother, I could go on for

• 2:31:17Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:18Speaker 03

  A long time about that. Needs to be released.

• 2:31:25Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:28Speaker 03

  Charlie wanted it released. That's not my opinion.

• 2:31:31Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:32Speaker 03

  Watch the videos.

• 2:31:33Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:34Speaker 03

  Release them.

• 2:31:35Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. That wasn't, my point wasn't, you know, I mean, I want them to release them too. My point wasn't getting into it. I'm just saying like, this is, this is the shit that causes.

• 2:31:50Shawn Ryan?

  Distrust in the institutions.

• 2:31:52Speaker 03

  Of all institutions.

• 2:31:54Shawn Ryan?

  And it gets worse, and it gets worse. And if you want to rebuild the fucking trust in the institutions, then you open up transparency and you stop fucking hiding shit from the American people.

• 2:32:05Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 2:32:05Shawn Ryan?

  That's how the fuck you do it. This isn't rocket science. This isn't fucking brain surgery. This is just.

• 2:32:14Speaker 03

  And here's my response.

• 2:32:15Shawn Ryan?

  Transparency. That's it.

• 2:32:16Speaker 03

  You got, I, I've got a team here that are done. And if you had opened that up, and if you had opened that up at least a little bit, six, eight, nine weeks ago, these guys wouldn't have been suffered. We've been doxxed. Our credit cards have been stolen. Our children's and parents' names have been released online. Wedding plans, home addresses, phone numbers.

• 2:32:45Speaker 03

  Throw us a bone.

• 2:32:46Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:47Speaker 03

  Don't let us sit out here and suffer for you when all you gotta do is produce something to quench the thirst of these people. And you're right. You're, you're creating distrust.

• 2:32:56Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:57Speaker 03

  And you're, you're hiding behind, well, we have to make sure and ensure that we don't paint a jury for this guy. You know, and I have questions about that, too. And so you're, I have questions about that. And we talked about that earlier. Where's, where's his call logs? His phone, his phone hits? Who'd he talk to two days, four days, eight days beforehand?

• 2:33:19Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think that they tore up and paved over the crime scene so quickly?

• 2:33:26Speaker 03

  I have had and asked that at least 10 times. And I said, I don't understand the exigency of why they did that. And here's my question to that. March your ass up to the school. Have you marched your ass up to the school? Or will you march your ass up to that school tomorrow and file a FOIA? And say, hey, you're a public institution. I want the request and the plans that were made to tear that up and when those requests and plans happen.

• 2:33:55Speaker 03

  Because that didn't, you're not going to request that, or you shouldn't, request that overnight and have that done. That had to probably go through a budget request, had to be approved. There should be a timeline and paperwork for that. You should be able to get that through FOIA. And so, do it. Make them, make them tell us why that they tore that up before it was even cold. I want to know. Because it came back on us. That we had some trapdoor, and you're covering up the trapdoor, and we had a guy hiding in there.

• 2:34:29Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, that's actually my next question. I didn't hear about the, there was somebody hiding in the trapdoor.

• 2:34:33Speaker 03

  A gun was hiding or something?

• 2:34:35Shawn Ryan?

  There was a trapdoor or something. Was there a trapdoor in a tunnel system?

• 2:34:39Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:34:39Shawn Ryan?

  There was not?

• 2:34:40Speaker 03

  No. So, school, why'd you tear it up? Why did you tear it up? What was the exigency to tear up something that still people would, did you not think that through? Like, hey, this might, we might want to put a hold on that. This might induce questions to us. And, and it didn't. Nobody went back and asked questions to the school, or said, hey, well, let's do a FOIA and do some back digging on that. That's not protected under this evidentiary gag order. Now, let's just blame the security team. Because that's the easy way. Go do the FOIA.

• 2:35:20Shawn Ryan?

  You know, I mean, back to the, the exit wound thing. You know, I mean, because we're talking about the tearing up of the crime scene, and everybody's wanting them to find the bullet. I mean, if the bullet hit any bone at all, there is no bullet. It's just fragmentation.

• 2:35:37Speaker 03

  Great point.

• 2:35:37Shawn Ryan?

  And...

• 2:35:39Speaker 03

  And that was discussed already.

• 2:35:40Shawn Ryan?

  And if there, yeah, there was no exit wound. In the aut, in the aut, in the autopsy, though, there should be, I mean, if there was no exit wound, then there should be fragmentation of the, the bullet would have fragmented into, into, into who knows how many pieces.

• 2:35:58Speaker 03

  The doctor, and again, this is not a non-disclosure violation, but the doctor told us, came out there and told us. And then, they also told Chief of Staff. So, the bullet came in and hit the vertebra. And, and so it came in, and then...

• 2:36:19Speaker 03

  Tore up everything in the wound cavity, hit the vertebra, crushed it, shattered it, turned, crushed the second one, turned, kept going down all the way, I think they said C6.

• 2:36:29Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 2:36:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like, why not put that info out? Why not put it out?

• 2:36:36Shawn Ryan?

  And then- Why wouldn't they put that out?

• 2:36:37Speaker 03

  And if, do me a favor, don't make me do it, it's not my job. And so then it got to here, and you're exactly right, and then hit, I think, six, and then fragged. And so, explanation 101, what are you hiding? Yeah, it's like, I'm sitting back here when people are saying, "We bombed him," or there's a wound, I'm like, "Hey, if somebody would, from an official capacity, would just release that, and I don't see how that could jeopardize a fair trial for a guy." And/or somebody called a doctor. Somebody just call him.

• 2:37:29Shawn Ryan?

  This guy, George Zen, are you familiar with this guy?

• 2:37:33Speaker 03

  Is he the one that said-

• 2:37:35Shawn Ryan?

  He is the, performance immediately after the shooting, I believe he was saying that he had the shooter, is also a witness to 9/11, called to the bomb threat in Salt Lake City Marathon, I mean, he seems to show up at a lot of-

• 2:37:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:37:51Shawn Ryan?

  Historic-

• 2:37:52Speaker 03

  Historic incidents, right? And then gets arrested, and then later gets arrested for child porn-

• 2:37:58Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:37:59Speaker 03

  -after that. And, and so, it was, that was a weird deal, because that came to us at the hospital, had to have somebody in custody. And I'm like, "Awesome." And then, and then, our guys helped hold that perimeter area while they were arresting him, and I want to say they hang it, held on to some gear or something? I'd have to double-check with them, but they were there assisting the police for that, because they're still in there in the crime, holding the crime scene. Yeah, and so, how did this guy get there? And-

• 2:38:35Speaker 03

  They did the search warrant on his house and they released it. It's like, hey, dump his phone and release that too.

• 2:38:40Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:38:41Speaker 03

  Dump the tower information and release. Yeah, I want to know, who is this guy? Why is he around?

• 2:38:48Shawn Ryan?

  All these things.

• 2:38:49Speaker 03

  All these things.

• 2:38:53Shawn Ryan?

  What questions do you have?

• 2:38:55Speaker 03

  You know.

• 2:38:56Shawn Ryan?

  You had some good questions about Robinson.

• 2:39:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I want to know, I want to know who this kid is. I don't want to know that he was, had a, there's something that feeds a narrative of hate and division, that he was, uh, uh, uh, his boyfriend was trans or whatever and the, and that they had text back and forth. I, I want to know, it's like, all right, where did he work?

• 2:39:21Speaker 03

  And, and then who were his coworkers and did they interview his coworkers? And then I want to see his phone logs and the towers that had hit. I want to interview his friends and, and I want, did he have any help? Um, they said, oh, well, we have DNA on the rifle and, and I, I want all that information. That, that's a good tie, right? Now, from a judicial standpoint, I can understand why. Um, they're saying, ah, we don't want to put all this information out because the judge said it may taint a potential jury because they're going to seek the death penalty.

• 2:39:59Speaker 03

  And I'm like, from a, from a book standpoint, I understand that. But, um, you got a lot of people out there wondering, hey, did this guy do it by himself? And then you throw my wonder on there. It's like, wow, so he just.

• 2:40:15Speaker 03

  It, it, the, the rooftop was clear and then he jumped up on it, acquired a shooting position, took the shot. That, that shooting position was a loophole. It had been five meters this way or what, this, this way wouldn't have happened. And then can, can we go through his phone or his computer? And find a, a Google Earth overhead that he was looking at it days, weeks, months before? Did he access that before? Because obviously it's a problem because that's how we came upon the information. That it's easily accessed and how we gave it to the chief to say, hey, chief, you got this, right? I got you covered. So that's information we need to know. I want to know about this kid. I want to know if

• 2:40:56Speaker 03

  somebody helped him. Is he a patsy? Is he, uh, uh, did he, was there a group of people?

• 2:41:02Shawn Ryan?

  What's a patsy?

• 2:41:03Speaker 03

  Well, is he taking the blame for other people? Or is he, i- i- is, is, is he part, is he a lone wolf? Is, you know, but then we all thought Timothy McVeigh was a lone wolf too, right?

• 2:41:16Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:41:17Speaker 03

  And then we come to find out, nah, people knew about it. He had assistance. Even if it was assistance of, we knew you were gonna do something and then we didn't say something.

• 2:41:30Speaker 03

  So, yeah, I have questions to him. I have questions, and this is horrible, because I'm a father. I have questions to his father.

• 2:41:38Shawn Ryan?

  Aren't they, aren't they saying that he took the, the rifle apart with a flathead screwdriver?

• 2:41:44Speaker 03

  That's a big one. I want to know. And it's like, I know there's footage out there, and I don't know what to believe, and, and how it got down. It's like, alright, how did the, how did, I want to know that. How did the rifle get from the roof to where they found it? That's a big one. How did the rifle get from the shooting position all the way back across to where they found it?

• 2:42:08Shawn Ryan?

  And then it was reassembled when they found it, correct?

• 2:42:10Speaker 03

  I don't think that it ever was disassembled, because even, even an AR platform, think about it.

• 2:42:18Shawn Ryan?

  You know what I mean?

• 2:42:18Speaker 03

  Pin, pin, brake.

• 2:42:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:20Speaker 03

  Pull. It's gonna take a bit. That's a bolt gun.

• 2:42:24Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm. That's, that's what I'm getting at.

• 2:42:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:42:27Shawn Ryan?

  Is...

• 2:42:27Speaker 03

  It's not gonna happen.

• 2:42:28Shawn Ryan?

  I probably should have been a little, a little bit more descriptive on, about that for...

• 2:42:33Speaker 03

  So I, I want to know about that.

• 2:42:35Shawn Ryan?

  Non-shooters.

• 2:42:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, you know, and there's, there's, there's other things.

• 2:42:38Shawn Ryan?

  Non-2A enthusiasts.

• 2:42:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I, I look at that, and, and then, and, uh, I look at a lot of things that are going on at, at Turning Point, you know, and, and, because I saw, man, I've seen people say that Erica was involved in it. His wife.

• 2:43:08Speaker 03

  I've done a lot of death notifications. Where I had to tell kids that their parents were dead, or their parents that their kids were dead. And I know what pain looks and sounds like. I wake up screaming sometimes, thinking of kids. The words that came out of her mouth, and how they came out, when she walked in that room and saw him. You don't want to hear that. She's a victim. That's her husband.

• 2:43:49Speaker 03

  And now people without any proof are saying that she was a part of killing him? Come on, man. And then not having anything to substantiate it with? That's what makes me lose faith in people. And that we allow it. And that platforms allow it. It goes against everything that we are. And if we're going to allow that, what else are we going to allow? You hear that kind of pain come from somebody, and see it.

• 2:44:30Speaker 03

  And I could only imagine the pain she's feeling now, by happening to hear that people say that she was a part of it. Those are lies. And so, that, so, and so, and we have that organization. It's, it's got this huge power vacuum going on now. And I'm sure it's, it's affecting it. It's affected me. And so, that's, that, that's an organization with a lot of great people in it, doing good things. You know? And so...

• 2:45:12Speaker 03

  Where do we draw the line to people making allegations of bad behavior?

• 2:45:22Speaker 03

  It's a huge question. I mean, could you imagine? Think of this for a second. You've lost friends.

• 2:45:32Speaker 03

  And could you imagine somebody reporting that one of your friends, his wife was responsible for their death? What would you want to do to him?

• 2:45:48Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:52Speaker 03

  And it's like, man.

• 2:45:56Speaker 03

  This is, we're better than this. We should be better than this. And we're not.

• 2:46:04Speaker 03

  And people are bitching about the leaders we have. And I was like, hey, we get the leaders we deserve.

• 2:46:10Shawn Ryan?

  It's a good point.

• 2:46:11Speaker 03

  And we don't deserve very much right now.

• 2:46:18Speaker 03

  On each side.

• 2:46:21Speaker 03

  On each side, both sides. We get the leaders we deserve.

• 2:46:29Speaker 03

  If we want to hold them accountable, we should hold ourselves accountable.

• 2:46:34Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:46Shawn Ryan?

  Are there any other questions you have?

• 2:46:48Speaker 03

  No. I just, I mean, I appreciate you. You let me come on. Or when I, when I got that phone call, I was like,

• 2:46:59Speaker 03

  wow. I mean, I, I've seen the people that have come here. And Don Graves, he's, he's sat here, right?

• 2:47:13Speaker 03

  Eddie Penny.

• 2:47:16Speaker 03

  Ben Carson. It's like, man, I don't deserve this.

• 2:47:22Speaker 03

  So.

• 2:47:23Shawn Ryan?

  It's a lot of humility in this room, man.

• 2:47:25Speaker 03

  Should be. Thank you all for that.

• 2:47:29Shawn Ryan?

  You deserve to be here, just like everybody else.

• 2:47:31Speaker 03

  Thanks, man.

• 2:47:34Shawn Ryan?

  God bless you, brother.

• 2:47:35Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:47:36Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 2:47:50Shawn Ryan?

  No matter where you're watching Sean Ryan's show from, if you get anything out of this, please like, comment, subscribe, and most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you're feeling extra generous, please leave us a review on Apple and Spotify Podcasts.