Michael Herrera: “We Saw A 300ft UFO in the Indonesian Jungle” (Marine Vet Tells All)

Former Marine Michael Herrera joins us alongside UAP Gerb ( @UAPGerb ) to reveal chilling details about his 2009 Indonesian jungle encounter with a colossal octagonal craft and the covert black‑ops network behind it. He describes being intercepted by eight elite operators wielding biometric scanners instead of weapons, then watching a 300‑foot, Vantablack craft silently hover below the treetops before vanishing at “several thousand mph.” Herrera’s story reveals a hidden program using psionic “P3 assets” to summon and bait UAPs for retrieval and reverse engineering. He claims this secret program is part of a worldwide race driven by black budgets and consciousness-based tech to control and exploit non-human engineering breakthroughs. Please check out our sponsors below: F*%k your khakis and get The Perfect Jean 15% off with the code [JESSE15 at theperfectjean.nyc/JESSE15 #theperfectjeanpod Rocket Money: Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to https://RocketMoney.com/jesse today. LUCY: Let’s level up your nicotine routine with Lucy. Go to https://lucy.co/jesse and use promo code JESSE to get 20% off your first order. Lucy has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind. -------------------------- ***JOIN OUR WHOP (Exclusive Episodes & Group Calls) ➤ https://whop.com/jessemichels ***Become a Member of American Alchemy: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuG2KzrIMe3qoNcuDVpwnXw/join -------------------------- Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 01:22 Meeting Steven Greer 05:50 The Mission 13:18 The Interception 22:45 Who Made the Craft? 26:33 The Photos & Keeping Quiet 32:05 Going Public 34:25 Greer's National Press Club 37:02 Jake Barber 44:40 Psionic Assets 45:24 The Other Marines in the Unit 51:59 Remote Retrieval Missions 1:00:48 Philosophical Questions of Existence 1:04:07 Understanding Personal Narratives 1:09:26 Theories of Reverse Engineering 1:14:28 Historical Context of UFO Technology 1:18:44 Government Secrecy and Disclosure 1:21:19 The Role of Money in Black Programs 1:25:29 Insights on Defense Contractors 1:31:38 Global Cooperation Against Extraterrestrial Threats 1:37:17 The Nature of Military Technology 1:44:51 The Duality of Technological Innovations 1:49:35 Scalar Wave Healing Technologies 1:55:08 The Conflict Between Profit and Health 2:07:53 Conclusion -------------------------- SPOTIFY ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify INSTAGRAM ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TWITTER ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican EMAIL/BOOKINGS ➤ [email protected] #aliens #science #interview Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

  It's not like trying to summon a spirit. You're summoning, essentially, technology that has consciousness to it. Well, that platform came into that craft itself. So this thing was either antigravitic itself and how it basically merged in together.

• 0:49Jesse Michels?

  Could this just be like an occult thing? That's been going on for hundreds of years?

• 0:53Speaker 01

  How do you think they learned?

• 0:56Speaker 03

  They were actually, two of the guys, were actually talking about either, hey, should we smoke these guys right now? You know, that's what they kept saying.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Do you think, realistically, pulling these technologies from these black programs and putting them into the hands of people who don't know what the fuck they're doing is a smart move?

• 1:12Speaker 04

  James Allen, the documentarian of Martin McCandlish and the Flexliner story. He was diagnosed and dead of an aggressive form of cancer in about three weeks.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, the UFO stuff's cool because they fly. The medical shit, the stuff that we could also do with this technology is going to be far more advanced.

• 1:51Jesse Michels?

  I'm here with Michael Herrera, and I couldn't be more excited to talk to you. This has been a long time coming. You are a former Marine. Correct. Who experienced something just...

• 2:02Jesse Michels?

  Really fascinating in 2009 in Indonesia in the jungle. And it involves craft that prosaically is not understood as far as how it works. And also seemingly special forces, we don't know if it was special forces. You don't describe them, definitely special forces, but a team with prowess and wherewithal as far as the machinery they're using and how smooth they're operating. That also seems like at another level and they're kind of apprehending you when you see this craft. And so I'm very excited to talk to you. I know it took a lot of courage for you to speak out. And then we have Sammy UAP Gerb as well here, who's a legend, has an amazing channel, goes

• 2:46Jesse Michels?

  as deep as anybody when it comes to actual legacy operations from like a core detail way, just the facts. And so very excited to have you, man. And you guys have done a great show together too. And if you guys want like very low level details as to what went down, drawings, pictures, illustrations, extremely detailed, you know, accounts, go to your channel because you have some great stuff with Michael.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  He's very thorough, which is something that's very rare.

• 3:11Jesse Michels?

  Especially in this space, it's extremely rare.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Correct, and that's kind of the thing why it made easier to talk to you because you were actually able to connect the dots and see and compare notes basically to what you've experienced with other, talking to other people.

• 3:25Speaker 04

  I mean, your story had been floating around for a while and people were pretty dismissive of it until, you know, our mutual friend, Joey is not my name, started to reach out to you and speak to you. And he got me in contact with you and you were able to provide quite a bit of interesting information, including, you know, direct evidence from yourself and Joey that you met up with a, who you referred to at the time as an insider.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:49Speaker 04

  Who now turned out to be Jake Barber.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Correct. And that was the thing that I was kind of weirded out about. So in 2023, when I testified with the National Press Club, obviously, I got in touch with Greer, actually in 2018. So I went to an event that he had in Boulder, Colorado, and listened to his lecture, things like that. I was saying 2017 because the ex I was with at the time, I met her in 2017. But then I was like, okay. And then I started thinking, because there's been some people on Twitter who's like, no, it's 2018 because one of the volunteers was there. So I was like, okay. So it is really 2018. And I had listened to his lecture. And then I ended up going up to, he was doing a book signing. So I went and got a book because that was the only way to get in front of him.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  At the time when he was doing book signings, he doesn't do that anymore because people can get very crazy. I've seen it firsthand. It's a little hysterical, but you know, this, this subject brings a very interesting crowd with it, which is something I don't relate to whatsoever. But I mean, to who of their own. So I had told him, you know, hey, you know, I'm a former Marine. You know, I had witnessed something such as like a drug running operation using this kind of technology. Do you know anything about that? So I was trying to get his attention. And he was kind of like, yeah, yeah, I've heard a lot. But then when I said that, he like told everybody to shut up. And he stood up and handed me his card. And he was like, don't tell anybody this information. Don't relate to anybody. Just keep it between us. Contact me when you're ready.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  And then when he did the first episode of Sean Ryan, is when basically he was talking about the whistleblower protections and going through the system to basically go through that route. So I was like, you know what? That might be time to actually pull the trigger on this and see what can come of it.

• 5:34Jesse Michels?

  This is the Gallagher Amendment around whistleblower protections?

• 5:37Speaker 01

  NDA, National Defense Authorization.

• 5:39Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, it's part of the National Defense Authorization.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  And that was of 20, coming into 2023, I think, is when they passed that. And then there was some rendition of which we were trying to do 2024 with the whole amnesty period for six months. And then obviously eminent domain with some of these technologies and assets that these black sites have. So when I approached, I got in touch with Greer again. Uh, call, I sent him an email, say, I don't know if you remember me, and he goes, I know exactly, and I remember exactly who you are, which was weird. So, um, he gave me his phone number, so I called him. We basically talked for about an hour, just kind of went through what I've already discussed publicly, which was essentially that we were a part of 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit

• 6:20Speaker 01

  that was tasked out to basically respond to a humanitarian assistance operation out in the Philippines, which was Operation Katsana. And then what ended up happening was we were the only ship, which was USS Denver, that got routed out to the western part of Sumatra in Indonesia. And, which was a little weird, but you know, of course, I've never been on a mission before that point, so that was kind of the first one for me.

• 6:42Jesse Michels?

  Why were you guys rerouted?

• 6:44Speaker 01

  It was the only ship, but that was the orders we were given. I don't know specifically why, um, there was speculation, and then when we actually got briefed at the, in the wardroom, that there were some Obama's family members that were there, so they had some SEAL team that was gonna be there to retrieve those people if need be.

• 6:58Jesse Michels?

  That's interesting, because Obama lived there from age six to ten, I believe, with his mom, yeah.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  And so there were some relatives, and they were gonna get them out, because what happens in that part of the world is when there's a natural disaster happens, usually these terrorist organizations or these insurgent groups will typically try to take over that area and inflict harm, chaos, ransom, I mean, whatever they do. And, uh, so they were afraid of that, so that's why they sent a reactionary force to basically go coordinate off, and then go deal with that, which we didn't do too much of that. All we basically did was try to provide security for an LZ, so that way they can keep, you know, we can keep if there were people there, which would, this particular LZ didn't have anybody there, which was weird.

• 7:40Jesse Michels?

  For the audience, what's an LZ?

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Landing, landing zone. It's more like a hasty LZ, so hasty LZ means it's a hasty landing zone, so it's something that wasn't like, prepared ahead of time, like, we're gonna plot here, and this is where we're gonna go, it was just like, here's the clearing, this is where they're gonna land, at least that's how it felt. Pilots can probably attest to something different, I don't know. And then, uh, basically, that's when we... disembarked the helicopter and for us it's like okay you're gonna have the tactical advantage take the high ground so that's what we decided to do and I wasn't the one who was in charge of all this you know so there was weird to not have the comms because everybody's talking about that

• 8:14Jesse Michels?

  Yep

• 8:15Speaker 01

  I was not the one to set up maybe the squad leader whoever was in charge of that point had something

• 8:19Jesse Michels?

  You guys had no comms no signals

• 8:21Speaker 01

  To my knowledge, no. I don't remember anybody having that. We could have had a little radio or something that the sergeant that was there at the time

• 8:27Jesse Michels?

  You're sent into the jungle alone basically with your unit

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Correct. You know so it's like a fire team plus two so six guys and so we end up you know seeing this craft which

• 8:41Jesse Michels?

  That's amazing. Who made this?

• 8:43Speaker 01

  So there's a I was actually looking for other accounts of octagonal craft that people may have seen. So I did a quick Google search came across this on Etsy and so some I can't remember the gentleman's name but I ended up getting in touch with him and told him who I was so he sent me two of these. One I signed for him and sent it back to him so he can have that and two because he you know he hooked me up with two models

• 9:09Jesse Michels?

  But did he make that to spec or he had already built that?

• 9:12Speaker 01

  No, he made this to spec. So this was after the fact of what I came forward. But this essentially is what we saw. So

• 9:20Jesse Michels?

  It almost looks like a fractal like you have like a you know kind of an accentuated version of the eight-gon or octagon shape on top that's like a pyramid and then you have like a lesser you know a less concave version

• 9:34Speaker 01

  Right

• 9:34Jesse Michels?

  in the middle and then like an even less

• 9:36Speaker 01

  Right

• 9:37Jesse Michels?

  You know more kind of spread out

• 9:38Speaker 01

  And this is off from memory because what people you know the SS was like a very matte black but then it was also transitioned like a light matte gray and I don't know if we were going down this hill and we could still kind of see it and maybe sun was hitting it to an extent or I don't know but it was basically like it was changing colors but this panel right here whatever these are

• 9:57Jesse Michels?

  Yep

• 9:57Speaker 01

  were basically the very vanta black which was the blackest I've ever seen anything there's like light could get absorbed into this

• 10:04Jesse Michels?

  Almost like a like a like a black hole or something

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Kind of. That's the only way I can describe it

• 10:08Jesse Michels?

  Or vanta black is this car this BMW car

• 10:11Speaker 01

  The paint that they did that it basically absorbs light it's very crazy stuff. So that's what that reminded me of but you know I estimated that this thing was probably about 300 feet and when we end up getting into this clearing is basically when we were intercepted by this force. You know, so Arrow put out a report that was completely false because I didn't say it was US Special Operations. That never came out of my mouth. What I hypothesized is that they were at some point because the tactics they used, they already had to drop on us by the time we even noticed them. So yeah, you got, you know, armchair generals out there who said, "Oh yeah, I wouldn't have done that. I would have fired at them." It's like, "Yeah, good luck with that buddy." They're pulled over by a cop and have a weapon and see how fast you can reach him while he's already got his drawn on you. We'll see how well that works for you. You know, F A F O.

• 10:56Speaker 04

  You and your fellow Marines, you did not have rounds chambered?

• 10:58Speaker 01

  No, we did not.

• 10:59Speaker 04

  When you were encountered in like a pincer formation?

• 11:01Speaker 01

  We were in Condition 3, so all we had was a magazine and so all you had to do is hit the charging handle to chamber a round. But if we're sitting there patrolling, this is the funny thing, is there's a lot of optics that are played and stuff like this, right? So it's not like you're wanting to use this. Now, granted, Indonesia is the second largest terrorist capital in the world, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to encounter any kind of bad guys, which we really didn't encounter that. And for these operators who we encountered, who's to say that they're really bad?

• 11:27Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Because the difference is, is if we were to do an operation ourselves, and we had people, we had no idea that were armed coming up to us, I'm pretty sure we'd react in the same way, especially if there's something that's going on that we either need to protect people, protect assets, or something going on. We're not going to have the same kind of welcoming like, "Yeah, go ahead and take a look, guys." You know?

• 11:46Jesse Michels?

  But before we speculate on what was going on there, just the core details, how long did you get a clean shot, like a look at that craft?

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Uh, several times. Because while we're being held up at gunpoint, which these guys are at standoff distance, it's not like they're sitting there pointing a muzzle right at your face like this close, because, you know, that's only Hollywood that does that. And these guys are smart enough, just like in the military, you're going to be at a standoff distance, so nobody can get the advantage of you, trying to disarm you, whatever it might be. So, but frequently dealing with these guys and dealing with that craft, it's just going back and forth.

• 12:21Jesse Michels?

  So like, how long is this process where you have a clean look at the craft? Is it like, it's minutes? It's not?

• 12:27Speaker 01

  It's minutes, okay.

• 12:28Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  It's nothing like substantially long.

• 12:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  It's just enough because like I said, these trucks were coming up.

• 12:34Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Which were either Tundras or F-350s, more likely they're probably Tundras. But the only thing I could make out was that it was some sort of heavy-duty truck that was built on that, some sort of chassis.

• 12:44Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  That was big enough to pull these containers.

• 12:46Jesse Michels?

  And how close are you to the craft while you're being apprehended?

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Maybe 150, 300 meters if that, because the way like this clearing was pretty big. But this craft was enormous.

• 12:57Jesse Michels?

  And there was, because even in the rendition, there's like a platform below the craft?

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 13:01Jesse Michels?

  And do you have any like first intuitions as to what that served as, the platform versus the craft?

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Well, that platform came into that craft itself. It lifted off the ground. Now, when you're looking at it like this, I mean, of course, you can see that there's like a metal pole there to basically hold this up up top, but there was no metal pole or nothing to support that, right? So this thing was either antigravitic itself and how it basically merged in together.

• 13:26Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  So it's something like it's very like a, there's Air Force cargo planes that basically detach the fuselage so that way they can just roll the plane off, load up everything, load it, and then just take off. I'm hypothesizing, I can't even speak today. I'm hypothesizing that that might be the same kind of concept, just something very quick. They just load up, get whatever they want, and get the hell out of there.

• 13:47Jesse Michels?

  And so these guys apprehend you, and what sort of equipment do they have? Do they say anything interesting?

• 13:53Speaker 01

  They're obviously talking about they want to smoke us, or what should we do if these guys are making threats? We can get lost out here, we can, you know, take you anywhere pretty much, we can kill you. Should we shoot these guys, you know? It's going back and forth, and there was only just two of them talking with us. But you could tell by their dialects that they were American, you can tell by their facial expressions that they were, you know, they were serious people.

• 14:14Jesse Michels?

  How many are they versus how many are you?

• 14:16Speaker 01

  So there are six of us and there are eight of them.

• 14:18Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  And they, like I said, they were split off, so when they kind of approached us, when we were going down in a tactical column, there were four and four on each side. So they basically almost have what they call a nosebleed. So they basically had sectors of fire like this on. So for them to fire upon us is not gonna take as many rounds because they could just hit us instantaneously. So these guys knew what the hell they were doing. And that was interesting, you know. Having thought about at least what these guys backgrounds could be, then Jake comes forward. Which is interesting, especially his background and his people, you know, so very good guys, by the way. But these guys in particular, I mean, they were so fluid and so smooth, it's like they've done this several times. It's just protocol. They just know it so well, it was just very fluid.

• 15:04Jesse Michels?

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• 15:45Jesse Michels?

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• 16:09Speaker 01

  So when they apprehend us, they basically take our weapons from us and they're just taking the magazines out. They're checking to make sure there's nothing racked in there, which there wasn't. I think they may have said something about that too. And, um, because there's no way, if they would have engaged us and we have to raise our weapon up and it's not chambered, well, yeah, you're gonna have to rack around in the chamber and then flip it off safe and fire while they already have their safe. You could hear them flip them off and then basically just... They could have got us.

• 16:37Jesse Michels?

  You heard the safeties flip off?

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Oh yeah.

• 16:39Jesse Michels?

  Wow. And did they have any other, um, equipment?

• 16:42Speaker 01

  They had, uh, something that was like a, a biometrics. It's like a bat system because that's something that we were kind of taught a little bit on how to track people, see biometrics tracking. And, uh, so when insurgents were having this used on them, it takes fingerprints, it takes pictures and all that kind of stuff. They had something very similar to that. And then they had like a-

• 17:02Jesse Michels?

  Did they take photos or, or fingerprints?

• 17:04Speaker 01

  They were trying to take, so they took our cat cards out of our, our pockets, which we always have our cat cards in our left breast pocket. And so when they took that out, they were trying to scan them and I don't know if it didn't work or whatever, but they were getting frustrated with it. And then this is when they took out another device that looked like a, you know, modern day smartphone, very thin. And then I've had people that were formerly of the CIA tell me that these are Cavcom devices that they use. And that's basically what they were able to translate and get that information to whoever had it. Cause they knew who we were after that point because they had our IDs, had our names, had our ranks, everything. So as that's going on, they're searching us down, you know, which I had, uh, before making that trek down the hill, I had a little Panasonic camera that

• 17:46Speaker 01

  I actually took pictures of this thing with from a top view, at least because there's some parts of it that were obscured because of vegetation. And I also had pictures of the helicopter, you know, like one of them was, you know, when we're on the ship and, you know, I had all these photos that I took, you know, even out of town and all that. And, um, they didn't find it in my dump pouch, which was good. Cause then the whole time I'm thinking like, I got something that can fucking prove this. It's not just fucking hearsay, right? And, uh, so-

• 18:15Jesse Michels?

  What, what'd you have that could prove it?

• 18:17Speaker 01

  The pictures.

• 18:18Jesse Michels?

  You had the pictures and that, and that was in your pouch?

• 18:20Speaker 01

  That was in my pouch.

• 18:21Jesse Michels?

  Got it.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  And they never searched that pouch.

• 18:22Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  So I was a saw gunner by trade. So that's what we always had was, you know, everybody has a pouch, but typically I just had like, um, drum mag pouches instead of a regular M16 or M4 magazine pouches, which I had a magazine pouch right here, just in case we had to use magazines for the saw because it could take both, belt fed with magazines. So as they're going through us, they're basically searching us up and down. And then they're basically just threatening us again, just kind of roughing us up a little bit. And then that's when the trucks started coming because yeah, I'm paying attention to these guys that are doing this stuff to us. And then all of a sudden I'm paying attention to these trucks that we start seeing pull up and they have these trailers on the back that have this- HVAC system on the top.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  So that was the suspicion I had that it was drugs because some of the heavy equipment industry that I do deal with, they have containers that do that for like vegetation or for like food or for equipment that needs to be chilled, whatever it might be. So I'm like, okay, I think it's drugs. So they drive these trucks onto this platform here, which is you can see like when the trucks are going up, that it was getting, the trucks were getting smaller, which was able to kind of gauge the size a little bit. And then they were loading it on. But I don't see how they, I didn't see how they actually took the trailers on.

• 19:37Jesse Michels?

  They drove on the platform that like seemingly levitates up.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  And it didn't make any noise. It didn't make any noise.

• 19:45Jesse Michels?

  You said it makes like a, almost like a bass hum.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  Like the whole thing itself did the whole time. And it's something that's so different that if somebody was to recreate it accurately, like Joey kind of did the same thing, which is very similar. Correct. And it was something like that because it wasn't a traditional propulsion system by any means. It's not like a rotor inside something.

• 20:05Jesse Michels?

  And so you got photos of the craft?

• 20:07Speaker 01

  Yes, I did. I took video and photos. When we were on top of that hill is when I took photos of this thing and it was obscured by some vegetation. And that's what caught our eye because it was something that was very abstract from the rest of the environment is changing colors. It was like, is it a building? What the hell is going on?

• 20:22Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  And I wasn't the one who made the decision to go down there to go find out.

• 20:26Speaker 04

  And when you were on top of the hill, you couldn't see the trucks or the operating?

• 20:29Speaker 01

  Nothing.

• 20:29Speaker 04

  Couldn't see people?

• 20:30Speaker 01

  Because like I said, it's very dense jungle, very thick vegetation. There's some clearings, of course, there's some, what I can remember at least, you know, which mainly was a vegetation. I can't tell you if there's mountains or hills or anything, which I remember there being hills, of course. When we were flying, it could kind of peek out, but other than that, I don't know exactly where we went or where we landed to or anything like that. And I know there's been people that have been trying, that I've asked for help to see if they could find the LZs. And to no avail, they can't because there's no information on them.

• 20:58Jesse Michels?

  And the F-350s or Tundras or whatever these trucks are, they're attached to, it's like containers with HVAC?

• 21:04Speaker 01

  They have, yeah, they're, yeah.

• 21:05Jesse Michels?

  What do the containers look like?

• 21:06Speaker 01

  So it's like a, kind of like a shipping container a little bit, but a little bit more reinforced, if you want to call it that.

• 21:12Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  And that's what I hypothesized it was drugs. It was just like, you know. And so it also had things that are like pelican casings on the back of the actual truck beds themselves. So there could be weapons, there could be other things in those things because they're very airtight and they seal up from moisture pretty well. So it keeps everything dry. So yeah, it could have been weapons, it could have been anything, but we mainly would put weapons in those. So I'm assuming they did the same thing too.

• 21:37Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  And so when we saw the last trucks go up is basically when this whole thing happened with the platform raising up and then the craft lowered itself and then it went over the tree line because it was right in the, it was like literally on the ground or not on the ground, but it was hovering on the ground, but it was low enough that it was actually lower than the treetops.

• 21:56Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  So this thing rose up past the treetops and then it shot off to the left, but prior to doing that, because it's rotating and it was rotating in a clockwise motion. So you can start seeing these lights appear on the very corners of this thing, which were red, yellow, green and blue is the only things I remember seeing. And then this thing just shot off and it was just like a black blur.

• 22:16Jesse Michels?

  So extremely fast.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  Extremely fast, fast enough that obviously it for some reason did not disturb the vegetation around it. There was coconuts in these trees that it could have easily fallen off with rotor wash or exhaust wash from low flying aircraft. That didn't happen. And obviously it didn't make a sonic boom either because of how fast this thing flew off.

• 22:36Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  But it was just like a black blur.

• 22:38Jesse Michels?

  That's incre- I mean, any estimates on speed or is that just really hard to say?

• 22:42Speaker 01

  I mean, several thousand miles an hour. I've never seen anything fast like that. I wanted to be a fighter pilot too. So you know, I know what aircraft and how they move and I can tell you all the armament that can go on these things. And this was never something that I ever would think I would ever experience.

• 22:56Jesse Michels?

  Did it shoot off inland or towards the ocean?

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Towards the ocean.

• 22:59Jesse Michels?

  And any sort of ruffling of the treetops or like, so like it almost like felt like it was.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  It was almost like in its own set, like its own environment.

• 23:10Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Nothing that could react to what our environment was.

• 23:14Jesse Michels?

  And so this is important, I think, to tell the audience, like. ETs are never mentioned in the context of the core details of this story have nothing to do with extraterrestrials.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  No.

• 23:25Jesse Michels?

  And did you have a first instinct on whether this was man-made or not of this earth?

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Two things. Well, prior to that, I didn't believe in the subject and I ridiculed the hell out of people for it. It was like, "You guys are fucking crazy." Like, they make movies, of course, the movies that come out are all fucking terrifying and shit, so it's like, you can imagine a xenomorph, if that exists, and what it would do here. You know, like, or the thing from John Carpenter's, I mean, something like that, I mean, fuck that shit.

• 23:53Jesse Michels?

  Did you ever encounter it in military contexts before this?

• 23:58Speaker 01

  No.

• 23:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, okay. So, like, literally, in zero context?

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Zero context, and it was one of those things, so I didn't believe in it. I never saw anything like that.

• 24:07Jesse Michels?

  Did you ever suspect we had aviation technology?

• 24:10Speaker 01

  I mean, I've heard about it, like, the Aurora, for example, which was something that was hypothesized, which is very interesting. But it's just like spy planes like that, but nothing anti-gravitic or anything. And then, you know, so, that day confirmed that we had this technology, because it was man-made, you could clearly tell it was man-made, it wasn't like ET. And then some of the stuff I've seen, you know, recently with ET craft photos, or, you know, even doing CE5 with Greer and a couple of other people, and you can kind of see that it was, nothing you could really describe, it was just like an orb, or it was just like something, like a very bright light, but it was very pure. Wasn't like a drone where you could see, like, you know, blinking lights or nothing, but it was just a very, very pure light.

• 24:51Jesse Michels?

  That's extremely important for the audience as well, where like, whatever the ET stuff, and we don't even know if that's extraterrestrial, but it doesn't seem to be, like, prosaic nuts and bolts, like we're building it.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  No, it's not.

• 25:02Jesse Michels?

  That stuff, I don't know, it looks at most like a plasma orb, if you had to, like, you know, compare it to something that is man-made. And it's often extremely ephemeral, weakly entangled with that, maybe there is some sort of sensor pickup.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:17Jesse Michels?

  But, things like this, where you see a thing sort of hovering there, fly off, people interacting with it, I mean, that seems mostly of the man-made variety.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Why would ET be trying to help out these guys? Out of anybody? You know, that's, that's kind of the thing that I, that I, you know, repeatedly say, because it's like, no, 100% was man-made. Based off of that, I can confidently tell you, and I know for a fact, recently, you know, throughout the last almost two years, I know for a fact, we have, you know, reverse-engineer technologies.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  And that's where the big secret is, is because they don't want people to know that, because then they have to explain to the whole world and why we're still on fossil fuels, why are we still having to depend on oil and gas for our vehicles, or even medical technology being is, it could be further advanced, you know, which I've been exposed to. And everybody gets confused to think that Jake's team has access to this technology. It's like, no, this was somebody else that was in the programs, that was on a geneticist level, that was dealing with this kind of stuff, that has this technology.

• 26:15Jesse Michels?

  I'm even hearing this, because I've heard you on a couple of podcasts, Gerbs and Sean Ryan's, and I think maybe the most overlooked detail is the mission itself. It feels weird.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  It does.

• 26:28Jesse Michels?

  It's like, okay, Obama's family is mentioned, you don't have comms. Do you ever think you were sort of set up, or there was something around the mission itself that was a little

• 26:39Speaker 01

  funky? I mean, it could be entirely possible. I don't know. I wasn't planning this mission or planning anything like that. I don't know. It's very odd and it's very weird. It's not typical. But then again, this is the first experience of going on a first mission by my, you know, since I was freshly in at that time. So that was the first mission I ever did. So it's like, okay, it's kind of like, just put together really quick, you know?

• 27:02Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  That's what it felt like.

• 27:03Speaker 04

  Because I think this is important to touch on, too. This wasn't with your normal fire team.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  No, it was not.

• 27:07Speaker 04

  Your squad leader, your fire team leader, has spoken out against you before on public, but this wasn't with your team?

• 27:13Speaker 01

  No, it was not.

• 27:14Speaker 04

  And this wasn't a special mission?

• 27:16Speaker 01

  No, there's no secret mission with this. This is basically almost like a working party. And it was good because we just wanted to get off the ship.

• 27:22Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  And that's how it resulted. So yeah, if you do all these security, you're loading up boxes. Well, yeah, it's better than being cramped up on a ship.

• 27:28Jesse Michels?

  Do you ever think, because later Jake Barber backchanneled with you, and I think he dealt with the transport of high-value targets?

• 27:36Speaker 01

  He did.

• 27:36Jesse Michels?

  And so do you ever think that maybe this actually had something to do with Obama's Indonesian long-lost family, and they were actually being transported on these containers?

• 27:46Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't think so, because when, so, now that everybody understands the mission, and at least with what we encountered, now I can kind of go in to talk about how I met Jake.

• 27:56Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 27:58Jesse Michels?

  Real quick, before we get into this, what happened to the photos?

• 28:01Speaker 01

  Okay, so, good question. So what happened was, we end up going back to Subic Bay after that whole, you know, the mission, we end up getting on ship, going back to the Philippines, basically regrouping for the rest of the fleet. We pull into Subic Bay, so we have like, I think, four or five days of liberty there. So I had my camera, so you know, which these guys also had their phones, which I don't think they took them with them. They may have, I don't remember. But I had my locker secured when we were going out into town. And we were supposed to report back, excuse me, at nighttime, right before, you know, I think 10 o'clock is when we had to be, or 11 o'clock. I can't remember. But um, ended up going back that night, the first night we were out. And then I go into my locker. And so of course, there's nothing, there's the cameras not in there.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  And I look at my rack, and then there it is. Because I had the top rack. And there it is. And the battery is missing, and the memory card is missing. So I had another battery in my locker. So I went and got that, popped it in, tried to turn it on, and it wouldn't work. So I threw it away. The other guys that were with me were missing their phones, and some other stuff that they had. And that's to remember, I can remember at least when one of the guys was there. But um, that was very weird, because who else would have access to that? And the lock was not broken. So I don't know how they jimmy'd open that locker with that lock on it, unless they popped it somehow, and took that camera out, because that camera was secured. And then I get back, and there it is. Just completely, you know,

• 29:27Speaker 01

  disheveled, and you can't turn it on, it doesn't work anymore. So there goes the evidence of that. So somebody knew what was going on. And then obviously, this Air Force Lieutenant Colonel, if that's really who it was, but if somebody is, you know, they had an Air Force dress blue uniform, with ribbons, a shitload of them. They had um, jump wings. They didn't have no pilot badge or nothing like that. Then they had Lieutenant Colonel insignia, which is a silver oak leaf. And he was at the CP and basically threatened me.

• 29:57Jesse Michels?

  What's CP for the audience?

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Control point, or command post, sorry, not control point. So it's a command post. And this was back when we were in Camp Hanson. And so there was nobody there.

• 30:09Jesse Michels?

  So this is back stateside?

• 30:10Speaker 01

  No, no, no, this was in Japan, Okinawa, which is Japan, but still. So um, when that happened, so it happened to all of us, but it wasn't at the same time. And that's basically when he had made a sign in India, saying you weren't going to talk about this. And the only things I remember on it were TSSCI, and Indonesia were the only things. I remember putting my social security number on there. I remember putting my first and last name, or middle name too. And then um, he told me flat out that if you talk about this, you can go to prison, or you can be executed over it.

• 30:46Jesse Michels?

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• 32:16Speaker 01

  So it was a scare tactic because the thing is, is even people in the government I talked to on this, Senate Armed Services, for example, there's no protocols that would allow for something like that to happen unless you were working on a program. So I don't know whether this was just a scare tactic to basically just say, "Hey, guys, we haven't forgot about you."

• 32:34Jesse Michels?

  Also, for the audience's sake, I do think it's important to say, you haven't made any money off of coming out with this story. And in fact, I know this about you, and I know you know this girl too, you have a pretty successful business out here in Colorado.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Multiple companies.

• 32:48Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, multiple companies. And so if anything, you're sort of losing money.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  I mean, I don't know. I've had, you know, I have Rolexes, that's one thing I collect. That's another business that I do with, you know, obtaining watches and trading them up or selling them. You know, it's a good side hustle if you can find the right buyers, of course, but, you know, it's one of those things that... I have to grind to make money and the best way to do it is with my companies. You know, this doesn't, I'm not getting paid to be here today. I don't get paid for interviews. I don't get paid to go have meetings at Cap Hill or anything like that. I sure as hell don't get paid to go attend Greer's events to either, you know, speak at some of them because something may be valuable. And that's kind of the thing that, you know, I wish I was making more money because who the hell wouldn't want to make more money? But this isn't a path to do it. So the thing that I'll tell people is just like, you know, you'll know people by their deeds.

• 33:36Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  You know, people based off their actions and what they do. And what I'm trying to do is basically solve this problem we've got.

• 33:42Jesse Michels?

  I remember hearing your story around that National Press Club event. And my first reaction is this is the weirdest of all the testimonies. And so I didn't know what to make of it. And then my second like meta reaction is like, maybe it's the most likely to be legit because it is so not like a script you would write. Like it's so weird.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  It is.

• 34:02Jesse Michels?

  And it's, there are so many loose ends where, uh, of course you're signing up to get accused of all sorts of bullshit. You know, by just telling the story.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  All of us who have gone through this get accused of it. It's nothing new. I don't pay attention to it. I don't care what anybody says.

• 34:14Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Doesn't do anything. They're not paying my bills. I mean, this is the problem with people these days is they put too much validation into people who realistically hate to say it this way, but don't matter. Why am I going to care what a cab driver or a bouncer or some random person walking down the street that I have no idea exists? Until just seeing them, why, why am I going to put more emphasis on what they care about? Or because somebody says something on Twitter who is hiding behind a ghost account or, like, I'm not going to put effort into that. I put effort into what I'm doing as best as I can, which business is my first thing. That's my livelihood. That's how I make money. And I've lost, I've lost contracts. I've lost business because I've came forward. So if anything, it has hurt me.

• 34:55Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. So you come back to the US and this is what 2009, 2010?

• 35:00Speaker 01

  2009, yeah, so.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Probably 2009 and then yeah, getting back probably 2010, early.

• 35:08Jesse Michels?

  How long do you stay silent on the topic and what convinces you to go public?

• 35:13Speaker 01

  So at the time, like I talked about meeting Greer in 2018, I kind of hinted around that. My ex I was with at the time, I told her a little bit of the reason why I was wanting to approach Greer. And then, so she kind of heard a little bit of it, but then when I came forward fully through Greer's press club or press club event, but also he had a two-day event before that too. This is where Jake was basically, where I'd met Jake.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  But I didn't know it was him, if that makes sense. He introduced himself, but I had no idea it was this gentleman. And so he, I mean, he's, you know.

• 35:48Jesse Michels?

  So that was the first time you'd ever come out, was this National Press Club event with Greer? And you can add color to this as well, because I know you know a lot about Stephen Greer. He had held a similar National Press Club event like two decades earlier or something?

• 36:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, this was in 2001 and he hosted a panel of whistleblowers and it's an excellent video. I'll draw attention to Mark McCandlish and the alien reproduction vehicle Fluxliner we talked about. It featured individuals such as I think Donna Hare from NASA who talked about NASA scrubbing UAP photos. And he also had an accompanying 2001 disclosure briefing document, which is an excellent piece and features so much whistleblower testimony. So this was kind of the first time he did a symposium like that since '01.

• 36:32Jesse Michels?

  And just also broadly, Stephen Greer was the guy over the last three decades, if you were gonna come out and say anything on this topic, he was kind of the only game in town in many ways. And there are other researchers that you like to talk about, Bill Hamilton and others, prior to Greer who've set a lot of the foundation for what he talks about.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:51Jesse Michels?

  But he was kind of the guy for somebody like Michael and his, you know, with his experience to come to.

• 36:57Speaker 04

  Not only that, but there was a long period of time, which may continue today, where researchers give Greer witnesses. And so researchers say, these are witnesses, this is their name, number, and background. And one example is Bill Hamilton giving primary witness Brad S. to Greer back in 97.

• 37:14Jesse Michels?

  Right. So he's doing a more modern version of this National Press Club event. You're speaking at this event. Jake Barber, who's recently come out, again, this Air Force vet who claims firsthand retrieval, is there, but he's there trying to infiltrate Greer on behalf of legacy UFO programs. And so what happens?

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Well, you know, so it's interesting. So I wake up to this message from Greer one morning, and he sent it to me like 2:00 in the morning, because he stays up pretty late, you know, he tries to be, and he lives in, obviously, the East Coast, and then he's like, lives off a West Coast time, which is odd, but that's his schedule. So I go to bed pretty early when I don't have anything pressing, because I like to get my rest. And then the next day, I mean, my days are usually crazy as it is. But, um, so I wake up this message, and it's literally, hey, this gentleman, you know, I'm not going to say the alias that he was using, because I don't want that to be out, because then all of a sudden it'll just, could create problems. If Jake wants to speak about that, then Jake can speak about it on his own accord, but I don't want to put anything in front of him that he doesn't

• 38:18Speaker 01

  need to be concerned with. So, he says this gentleman knows what you saw, but here's his contact information, get a hold of him when you can. So I'm like, oh shit. So I sit on that for like a day and a half. I'm just thinking like, what should I do? Should I just blow it off? Or, so I get in touch with him. So I call him, no voicemail can be sent or anything like that. So I'm in text message. So all of a sudden, he kind of goes off of a little bit in detail, wanted me to come out west to meet with him face to face, and he can explain what it is that I saw, what he knows about it.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  I said they'll take my security into consideration, so, because we got picked, I got picked up in a armored vehicle, which was pretty badass.

• 39:08Jesse Michels?

  And this was after you had met him at the National Press Club?

• 39:10Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 39:11Jesse Michels?

  After you had...

• 39:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had introduced, I was introduced to him, but I wasn't introduced to him as the guy who knew what I experienced.

• 39:18Jesse Michels?

  So you had met him, but you didn't connect the dots, that that was this guy?

• 39:21Speaker 01

  He didn't, yeah, correct.

• 39:22Jesse Michels?

  Who Greer was talking about, who knew a bit more about what you had experienced.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 39:26Jesse Michels?

  Okay, got it.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  So, you know, and the thing...

• 39:29Jesse Michels?

  Do you remember that interaction, though, at the National Press Club?

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, like I told him a little bit about what I do business-wise and all that, so he was kind of asking me questions, but, you know, he looked like, I mean, because everybody's seen what he looks like when he wears glasses, and he's wearing like this suit jacket and the kind of stuff like that, he kind of looked like a geek a little bit, you know what I mean?

• 39:44Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  So he's like, okay, this guy's just probably something that I'm with this, but here's a former Tier One operator that's, you know, badass guy that, I mean, I wouldn't double-cross that guy. He's just, the guy's a, him and his team are very good people, very good guys. So, so he talks about the security aspect of it, which they'll pick me up in an armored vehicle, which was pretty cool. And so we were trying to negotiate when I can fly out. So we got a time scheduled, so I end up booking the flights and telling them this is when I'll arrive and, you know, basically asking him where should I fly in and where do I, you know, fly back? So he had told me basically how to set all that up. And then he had transportation waiting for me, so he gave me this gentleman's number, and so they picked me up.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  And we drive from the airport to another location. And we go to this pretty cool place, and where Jake was at, like an office.

• 40:44Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  And...

• 40:45Jesse Michels?

  Where are you?

• 40:46Speaker 01

  I, well, I'm just gonna say it's in California.

• 40:50Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  Okay? But that's all I'm gonna say, right? I'm not gonna give specifics to where this location was. Which is hard to do, because, I mean, there's people who research this, and by all means, research it, figure it out. You're gonna find some interesting stuff. So we go to this particular place in California. And he's, so he introduces himself again, has this alias, right? And so he ends up sending a driver to go get us lunch, which was cool. And so he ended up knowing what I wanted, which was weird, but that's on a separate tangent.

• 41:24Jesse Michels?

  He knew what you wanted food wise?

• 41:27Speaker 01

  This gentleman did because I told him I wanted some Subway because I haven't had that in a while.

• 41:31Jesse Michels?

  But he knew the exact order that was your favorite order or something?

• 41:36Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  It was very...

• 41:37Jesse Michels?

  So they had like a little dossier on you or something?

• 41:39Speaker 01

  I don't know if that's what the case was or this guy was...

• 41:42Jesse Michels?

  Well, it would make sense in the context of Jake even saying that his initial role was to red team or infiltrate.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  I mean, he ran, yeah. And I mean, it's speculation, of course. He told me personally that what his role was after the fact of getting to know him and, you know, getting information from him for almost the past couple of years. This guy that was with him was a very good person, very good guy.

• 42:05Jesse Michels?

  Cool.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  And, I mean, everybody that I'd known through Jake was a great person, you know? So, we end up going into this office building, or not really an office building, just like an office, like a conference room. So, we sit down, he tells me, "Okay, go ahead and take out your phone and put it on airplane mode and set it off on the side." So, I do that and then, actually, prior to that, he pulls out this wand thing. It's like this box with this loop. And he says, so he went over it himself and was like, "Go ahead and, you know, take it and do it to yourself." And that's when we heard the beeper go off on that wand because it went over the phone and it reacted. So, he's like, "Oh yeah, go ahead and put it on airplane mode and do that." So, he's making sure it wasn't trapped, wasn't chipped, or had any kind of, you know,

• 42:48Speaker 01

  listening devices or something, you know, like a wire, for example. So, then we sit at this conference room table and, you know, he's explaining to me what it was. He explained the containers, he explained the program, P3. Which, P3 is not the real program designation, it's just what they call it.

• 43:04Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  Which was a psionic potential predisposition.

• 43:09Jesse Michels?

  Okay. And so, yeah, what...

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Which, I mean, it sounds, it sounds very far out there.

• 43:14Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  But being in these shoes for the last almost two years and understanding that consciousness is really the key to this whole thing. If you want to understand how these UFOs operate, you need to understand consciousness better.

• 43:29Jesse Michels?

  And so who, yeah, what was in these containers? Because he thought initially it might have been drugs.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  I thought it was drugs, and he has said I was completely wrong about that.

• 43:36Jesse Michels?

  And what is he telling you?

• 43:37Speaker 01

  He's saying it is basically these people who are psionic assets who have been screened from third world countries that they use them. Because there's different groups that are recruited out of the United States to participate in different parts of the world.

• 43:50Jesse Michels?

  And explain what a psionic asset is.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  These are people that are, they have a psychic ability to an extent, to my understanding.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  And they use these people to basically hook up to this advanced technology, whether it's NHI technology, ET craft, if you will. And basically either summon them or call them in, invite them in. And then the dark part about this whole thing, because everybody started getting wrapped up in the human trafficking.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  That got slapped onto it. Now, understanding how the dynamic is now, where these people volunteer for this kind of work? Because one, it's, if you had, I know if you guys had the opportunity to participate in something that was mind blowing with this technology, would you guys accept it?

• 44:38Jesse Michels?

  I'd be, I'd want to know more.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  You would?

• 44:42Jesse Michels?

  I'd be cautious. What about you?

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Be cautious, but if it was in a sense where you're participating, because everybody's like, oh, these people are dying and all that. Well, why aren't you complaining about people going to the military? Because you're taking risks going in the military too, where you could die. Or, hey, you want to drive a race car for a living. You happen to crash, well, that kills you. Or you play professional sports, you could always get screwed up. You know, when I did competitive bodybuilding, people talk about the risk of being on performance enhancing drugs.

• 45:09Jesse Michels?

  Well, let's even just, super basically for the audience. So these psionic assets are, what are they doing vis a vis UFOs?

• 45:16Speaker 01

  They are basically getting into a cognitive or a state of consciousness to attract these craft to appear at these certain ranges. And this organization, not Jake's team, so everybody needs to understand that Jake's team is completely different from what this organization does. This organization will then sometimes target them with these EMP weapon systems, their scaler, and they knock them out of the sky.

• 45:40Jesse Michels?

  So you're sort of baiting the UFOs to come in and then you're knocking them out of the sky?

• 45:43Speaker 01

  That's where Jake's team would come into need is because his team would get contracted to go pick up these vehicles and then transfer them to a facility.

• 45:53Speaker 04

  Okay, so you speak at the MPC, you're then contacted by Jake, and you're then taken to a location. Now, what about the other five Marines that experienced the Aegon possibly reverse engineered craft with you? What have they said? Because I don't know, but I would have kicked that off.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  Only two of them have reached out after the fact. The other three have not. And I don't think they're going to, and I frankly don't think they ever want any part of this. Now you, I can attest to this. What have you personally seen? Because I have shared some communication with two of them. What did you see them do?

• 46:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, both from communications, like between you and them that you've showed me, as well as Joey trying to speak to these two specific Marines. They always, every single time, say, "Leave me out of it. I don't want to talk about it," but never once have they denied it.

• 46:44Jesse Michels?

  You've offered to actually show us some of these texts while obviously removing any personally identifying information with your communications with one of these Marines.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  You saw the unredacted before, right?

• 46:54Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  To make sure. You did choose. You know the names. You guys have seen them.

• 46:59Jesse Michels?

  Yes, we've seen the names and yes, yeah.

• 47:03Jesse Michels?

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• 47:48Jesse Michels?

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• 48:27Speaker 01

  Okay, so I'm the light pink text and this guy is the

• 48:32Jesse Michels?

  Purple?

• 48:32Speaker 01

  Purple text, right?

• 48:33Jesse Michels?

  Okay, so he says, sounds good bud. Says, hey, man, this is asking too much of me and it's not worth the risk. And this is presumably after a phone call you guys had.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  So I gave him a phone call from when I was instructed by some people in the Senate Intel. Tried to get ahold of him to see if he wants to actually talk to us.

• 48:48Jesse Michels?

  Okay, so you just spoke, you asked him to come out. He said, hey, this is asking too much of me and it's not worth the risk. My family and military career far exceed anything you are asking of me. It's not worth my life or jeopardizing my family. You need to get out of whatever you are in and don't get me involved.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can't view it because it's a screenshot. But he basically after that says, don't ever ask me to do this shit ever again. That's what he said, the last part, right? This was another guy that reached out to me.

• 49:19Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  Through LinkedIn after he saw my Sean Ryan appearance.

• 49:22Jesse Michels?

  Yep, and again, Gurb and I both have seen the names.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  But squad mate, right?

• 49:27Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  So what the fuck else does that mean? Saw your interview, my email is blank, right? So I sent him a message to check your email. Sends this over. So what's up, buddy? How are you doing? He says, I'm doing good, brother. Saw that you're getting the word out. Mad respect. Said, "Means a lot hearing from you, brother, especially since we were close." And then he says, "Yeah, brother, keep the faith. There is nothing, no borders, lines that they won't cross." Says, "Well, I have a spot for my team." So basically, if he wanted to get involved with us trying to do this. And, um, that's pretty much it. And you guys saw it, when it wasn't redacted, you guys saw the names, you guys saw that nothing was...

• 50:03Jesse Michels?

  Yep. And you said, "Well, I have a spot for you on my team."

• 50:05Speaker 01

  My team if I go after trafficking ops.

• 50:09Jesse Michels?

  So that's the human trafficking.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Yep, if that is the case, because there's some people who reached out to me. They're combating real human trafficking in Africa, South America.

• 50:17Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  He's, uh, obviously trained, so if he wanted to participate in doing that kind of stuff.

• 50:21Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  I got people reach out to me, "Hey, you want to part of a task force?"

• 50:23Jesse Michels?

  And he says at the end, "Sounds good, brother, keep posted. Be easy to stay safe."

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 50:28Jesse Michels?

  Wow. But yeah, it says, "Yeah, brother, keep the faith. There are no borders, nor lines that they won't cross." Yeah.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Yep. And then he says, "How do you get the word out?"

• 50:38Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, the word, yeah.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  What is he talking about?

• 50:40Jesse Michels?

  What is he talking about if he's not implying that he knows exactly what you're talking about?

• 50:44Speaker 01

  That's exactly it.

• 50:45Speaker 04

  The original Daily Mail article on you posted just a screenshot of one of the Marines. I know who it is. I'm like, "Leave me out of this. I have a family. I'm still in the military." Something like that, like, "I don't want to speak about this."

• 50:58Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 50:58Speaker 04

  But you've showed many further...

• 51:01Speaker 01

  Well, I have showed, yes, and I have reported, though, or not reported, but I have provided Senate Select Committee on Intelligence all those messages. Because why would he be afraid to help? What's the repercussions if he helps, obviously with what we experienced? Why would the other guy be appreciative of me bringing that, this out, getting the word out, as he says?

• 51:20Speaker 04

  So what happened to the other three? Are they just completely off radar?

• 51:24Speaker 01

  Maybe, I don't know. I'm sure they're aware. I mean, most people are, you know? But, I mean, it's up to them whether or not they choose not to. I completely understand. I'm the one that jumped the gun on us. So far, they have not contributed in a sense at least that it was able to give me the messages that they sent me that I can provide to say what the fuck would they be talking about? If this wasn't real, they would be saying, no, what are you talking about, dude? But the fact they're not denying it, the fact that they're against it, such as they don't want to talk about it because of the ramifications, the first clue. Second clue, why would they be acknowledging and getting the word out?

• 51:57Jesse Michels?

  Yep. The only person saying this never happened was your fire team leader.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  But I got two other Marines who say otherwise.

• 52:03Jesse Michels?

  Right. Right. The fire team leader was not on the mission.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  He was not on the mission. I don't know what he was doing.

• 52:09Jesse Michels?

  It's just wild you're in a... Sorry, go for it. Yeah, I didn't want to cut you off.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  But no, you know, it's just, you know, to him, they can think and believe it or they want.

• 52:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  I don't care. It doesn't ruin my mood. It doesn't do anything different. It certainly doesn't derail my mission and what I'm trying to achieve, at least with the transparency with this, to get this problem reeled in once and for all.

• 52:29Jesse Michels?

  It begs all these questions of like, if we're engaging in black ops in the jungle in Indonesia, and you guys just kind of happened upon this, then how many other remote locations where, you know, you just never expect anybody to, any passerby to kind of encounter this stuff? Is this, is this going on?

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Right. Well, I mean, like I've been told, Jake's even aware too, that there's several different sites all over the world.

• 52:53Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  That deal with this, and you know, Southeast Asia being one of them, third world countries, Mexico being one of them.

• 52:57Jesse Michels?

  And so, because in your Sean Ryan episode, Sean uses the term "human trafficking."

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 53:04Jesse Michels?

  And so, there's this big debate, because I interviewed Jake, and you know, it's just like this question of, there was, I believe it's tsunami warning at the time, right?

• 53:13Speaker 01

  It wasn't a tsunami warning. So the thing is, is everything already happened.

• 53:17Jesse Michels?

  Oh, so this was post tsunami?

• 53:19Speaker 01

  This was post earthquake and tsunami.

• 53:21Jesse Michels?

  So then, were you guys... Because the Sean Ryan thing, it was like, there was like, you were almost taking advantage, or the quote unquote "tier one" operators, whoever they were, were taking advantage of the fact that this was a disaster zone?

• 53:37Speaker 01

  Correct. That was, that was a theory, that was a theory.

• 53:39Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Or it could have been that their, their operation was compromised somehow, and they needed to get away, or whatever it might be. I mean, it's, it's just...

• 53:47Jesse Michels?

  Do you have a bias in either direction? Do you think they were sort of rounding people up?

• 53:50Speaker 01

  I'm just, I'm just neutral about it because of being in this situation and now understanding, at least to my knowledge, of what takes place now.

• 53:57Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  I had a negative... Excuse me, outlook on it at first?

• 54:02Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  Because I didn't understand it. The more I talked to Jake about it, the more he was able to put it into reference on why it made sense.

• 54:10Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  Now, is it something that is agreed upon? No, because they're using children and that's bothersome. I don't know anybody who would feel good about that. Because I don't have kids, but if I had kids, they were getting plucked in these programs and, you know, being subjected to this kind of stuff. I would have a problem with that. And I think anybody in their right state of mind would have a problem with that too.

• 54:29Jesse Michels?

  I agree.

• 54:30Speaker 01

  So, you know, there's some trade-offs with this. But what people have to understand, and they vilify these legacy programs like nobody's business, like they're all bad guys. It's not the case. It's the best and brightest this country has to offer. They get pulled into these programs to basically make our country better to an extent. Now, there are some breakaway parts and factions of this that take their own routes. I.e. Jake with his initiative with what he wants to do, which essentially make everybody understand that the legacy programs are not all that bad. But also have another outlet for people to pay attention to as far as making contact with other civilizations

• 55:15Speaker 01

  and inviting them in and basically assessing the data that they collect, which is public to an extent because this is what they're talking about doing.

• 55:24Jesse Michels?

  If you were baiting a thing that seems like it's coming from another world or planet or interdimensionally, or whatever this is, and then zapping it out of the sky, if you know it's bad, that's fine. If you don't, shouldn't we have some caution around doing that?

• 55:42Speaker 01

  There should be some sort of system, diplomatic or whatever. You would say, but this is the thing is, you know, if you're in the military or you're in some sort of capacity where you're taking orders.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  You're not really in a position to think necessarily. You're just gonna do what's instructed for you to do. And I feel the same way is probably perpetrated in people in these programs to an extent to think the same way. This is a reason why they cross-deck into these agencies, because they still have the same structure. They still have the same type of orders that are given or things like that. Yes, you're more free-thinking, but at the same time, you're also doing sort of the same work, but just in a different capacity. So if you're taking orders to say, "Hey, this, you know, whatever comes into range, take them out." I don't think anybody's gonna argue with that because the amount of pay that comes with this, and it's your only opportunity. And these guys get paid pretty good.

• 56:34Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, well, this isn't necessarily blaming the operators who are involved at all.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  No, and that's the thing, is that they're told one thing.

• 56:42Jesse Michels?

  Sure.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  Because the management level of these know what's going on to an extent. And this is where it comes into either they're doing this for their own personal benefit or their gain for the whatever group they control, i.e. through money coercion of certain things. But again, this is speculation, but at the same time, the facts are is that we are shooting them down. Yes, they are facts, and regardless if everybody out there says, "I've never seen this happen." Well, yeah, you're not going to. You're not a part of these programs. You're not a part of anything that's gonna get you into this. Because the people that are involved with this, they don't like to talk about it. They like to do the work, and they do what's required of them. They get paid a lot of money to do it. And some of the work, a lot of the work that they do is probably very fun.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  They probably get to do things that are not normal, that nobody in this room gets to say that they get to do, right?

• 57:29Jesse Michels?

  Do you think, because you hear rumors of the psionic assets having sundowner syndrome or health effects or whatever, and you get, I mean, I think this goes back to ancient esoteric practices and...

• 57:41Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 57:41Jesse Michels?

  It's sort of this thing where if you're not of an extremely pure, you know, internally coherent state, then you get a reflection of the pain that's inside of you.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  You're gonna manifest whatever you're projecting out there. I think that's realistic, but what we're talking about is not like trying to summon a spirit. You're summoning essentially technology that has consciousness to it. Now.

• 58:05Jesse Michels?

  What's the distinction?

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Well, the difference is, is obviously if they're extraterrestrial, that have a consciousness, they're coming from a different star system. That's what's different.

• 58:14Jesse Michels?

  Do we know that?

• 58:15Speaker 01

  We don't. This is the, now, they may know that.

• 58:18Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  Based off of wherever, however they're interacting.

• 58:21Jesse Michels?

  Could this just be like an occult thing that's been going on for hundreds of years?

• 58:25Speaker 01

  How do you think they learn?

• 58:27Jesse Michels?

  How, who?

• 58:27Speaker 01

  These groups. They learn from the occult.

• 58:30Jesse Michels?

  Sure, interesting.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  The secrecy aspect of this is, you know, you have different fraternities or secret societies. I mean, everybody knows I'm a Freemason. I've talked about it, but everybody speculates all because I'm a Freemason. I'm a disinformation agent or something, or I'm a part of the New World Order. And then they see the SDG pin that I wear, which everybody says is the World Economic Forum. Sorry, I am too poor to be one of those guys and I do not fit whatever they need.

• 58:57Speaker 04

  I think this is an important discrepancy to bring up too. When Jake discusses Skywatchers and some people on the Skywatchers team, the P3 assets are quite engaged with what they do. They're happy, they're former military, or they're, you know, well-treated individuals. When we first did our interview early in summer of 2024, what you knew at the time was that the P3 assets were essentially treated like trash, given drug cocktails to interface with the craft, treated like garbage. How does this well bridge connect?

• 59:28Speaker 01

  So here's the thing is, I think there's speculation because one of the things is because they're given drugs doesn't necessarily mean that they're treated like trash. What it does is it allows them to operate at a higher level of consciousness, even though there's some disassociation with it, or if there's other

• 59:46Speaker 01

  trauma-related things that happen early on in their lives, or they induce it somehow. Granted, this is not what Jake's team does. The operators he has on this team do not do what may these legacy programs do. It's completely different. So everybody thinks that if Skywatchers participating in the same type of operations as Legacy, I hate to break it to you, it's not even remotely close. It's much more peaceful, it's much more. informative and something that's going to be a little bit more transparent compared to what legacy is doing.

• 1:00:18Speaker 04

  So it could have been a different program outside of Jake's that referred to the P3s as like pink assets.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  Well, that's what they call, that's what the program calls them or pink assets.

• 1:00:26Speaker 04

  What's pink asset?

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Biological equipment like cattle.

• 1:00:29Speaker 04

  Right, yeah, that's, and that's always stood out to me.

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  And that's granted, that is something that has been communicated to me is yes, that some of the programs refer to them as that. Doesn't mean Jake thinks that that's the case, or at least that's how he personally views these people because he doesn't view him that way, but this is what the program treats him like. Now corporations out there are no different.

• 1:00:51Speaker 00

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• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  Big corporations treat people like numbers. Okay, well, guess what? This guy died, so we have another person filling his spot and we can forget about it. The military is the same way. It's just a constant rider of repeating the trainings and getting people in these roles and then basically getting them up. If somebody gets out, they get in or they get killed, they get another person to fill the slot. So it's no, really no different from that, but in the same token, because it's so abstract that people want to lynch onto and say, oh, this is evil. Well, military is doing the same thing.

• 1:01:49Jesse Michels?

  Is there, is there a way to do this that is above board? I, it brings up all these philosophical questions because it's like, I'm all for protecting the free world and I do, like the people who like, you know, create some false equivalence between, you know, the way people live in domestic China right now and the US, as messed up as our country is, I think, you know, I'd much rather live here and I'm all for protecting it. And so there are these game theoretic dynamics where I'm sure they're doing similar things. But, but then the, the meta philosophical question is like, We're talking about aspects of the sacred and like, you know, I don't know what these beings are, you know, they could be angels, they could be really, you know, they could be demons. I don't know what they are.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Angels and demons don't need flying saucers to come here. Let's get that straight.

• 1:02:38Jesse Michels?

  So you think they're extraterrestrials?

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:02:40Jesse Michels?

  But if they're not bad, you're just baiting them and zapping them out of the sky?

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  It's no different than if I was to have an exotic car driving through a bad neighborhood and they decided to shoot me and steal my car because it was more...

• 1:02:50Jesse Michels?

  But that would be messed up for them to do.

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  That's exactly it. You want to talk about the ethical conflict here because that's really what it is.

• 1:02:56Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  This is the reason why Jake came forward, right? Because there's nothing that he was...

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  There were things going on that he was not a fan of.

• 1:03:05Speaker 04

  Right, because I think Greer has spoken about this, that when he spoke to Jake, Jake relayed that craft were being down and he was deeply...

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  He was bothered by that, hundred percent, especially with the P3s, the way they're treated.

• 1:03:15Jesse Michels?

  So, and his goal now is to just get them peacefully?

• 1:03:19Speaker 04

  Because, you know, there might be biologics in the craft. If that's the case, you are turning possibly living biologics to dead biologics.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  Well, and that's what happens when they fall out of the sky because they're subject to our laws of the universe with inertia and gravity and all that kind of stuff.

• 1:03:34Jesse Michels?

  If we could peacefully commune with these things, that would be amazing.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  Well, and I think that's what Dr. Greer's whole CE5 initiative is all about, which I've personally attended a few of them.

• 1:03:43Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  He invited me to because it's more like... I like to see things firsthand to see whether or not it's, there's anything credible and, yeah, Dr. Greer's CE5 is very real. It's very incredible and it's something that I think a lot of people need to understand that it's not by any means false.

• 1:04:02Jesse Michels?

  But if you, if you listen to the ancient traditional version of this stuff, it's always like, you need to be 35, married, grounded. Like, you shouldn't like try to summon anything.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  Well, this is, this is the thing, as we're going off of interpretation. What one person's interpretation is not going to show the same as the other person's. Your interpretations are different than mine, mine are different from yours and so on. It's just whatever you personally experienced, whatever's been your upbringing, whatever you believe value-wise is going to shape your narrative and what your thought process of a situation is. So if you're brought up on the more religious aspect of things, then yes, you're gonna think aliens are angels or demons. If you're somebody who's esoteric, you're gonna say, okay, it's interdimensional or it's something that could be extra solar. Right? But it depends on what your upbringing is and what you believe in yourself of what it might be. But it doesn't mean it's correct.

• 1:04:56Jesse Michels?

  And so do you think these things come down? And then, you know, we're talking about this octagonal, eight-gon shaped craft that seems to be possibly man-made. Material derived from what lands or gets zapped out of the sky, then gets reverse engineered or implemented in these terrestrial exotic craft that we build? Is that right?

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  That's, to my understanding, that's exactly how it happens. From my understanding, from what's been relayed to me, was that every craft that they recover, they also make reverse engineered versions of trying to replicate that technology or that specific craft. So this, I mean Jake saw pretty much the same thing. Except much smaller, that's something that was able to be lifted up by a helicopter. This fucking thing is estimated 300 feet. I don't think his helicopter could pick something up that big. You know, so it'd take probably several helicopters, but in the same token.

• 1:05:52Jesse Michels?

  So you think what you saw is a reverse engineered, man-made version of what he saw? Cause he locked on to, possibly?

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  Possibly, because I mean, again, these, there's different groups all over the world. They're doing the same thing. So yes, there's multiple black sites that probably have P3s that are being used to lure craft out and then to shoot them down.

• 1:06:11Jesse Michels?

  That was the most fascinating part of my Jake interview is he was like, "Who is we?" And I was like, "I don't know, I seem like the US or like whatever, you know, aerospace corporations he might be working for." And, and, and then he was like, "No."

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  We don't have shit.

• 1:06:24Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, he was like, it's all, he's like, it's black money. It was almost like it was like mafia wars and international transnational corporations and interests, you know, across the world, doing this stuff.

• 1:06:35Speaker 04

  And yeah, trying to investigate this subject, particularly with the vehicle you saw, hits so many dead ends. I mean, it's been talked about publicly by Greer, but he always says that he knows the craft you saw, the souped up version of the eight-gon that Jake retrieved is made by the Lockheed Scott Works in Northrop Grumman. He, he says that I myself have pressed into that with you know, regularly to art for him and say, "Where does he get this?"

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  Well, that's the thing is I think it's, I think it's speculation. I mean, because Unless you're physically working for these companies, you're not going to know what's what. I mean, he may be connecting the dots because he's talked to over a thousand other people that may have been working for these programs and maybe have articulated something personally to him. I'm not entirely sure of because I'm not in Greer's head. What I will say is that this field offers a lot of speculation. And it offers a lot of confusion.

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  Because really, at the end of the day, we only know what we experience personally. And what your interpretation of it and how you tell the story is going to be different than what you say. Because here's the problem, every time you retell a story, you're reframing it, based off of memory as much as you can. So yes, I understand that for myself with the story, there could be details left out that I don't remember. Or there could be a certain thing, you know, so it's just going off of memory of what you retell, you're reframing. So with the Jake's incident, with him red teaming the event, I think it was, one of the things that is a little bit hard for me to accept is the fact that this, meaning back channel from somebody in the programs,

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  doesn't happen with anybody. It didn't happen to Hecker, it didn't happen to DC Long, it didn't happen to Stephen Digna. It hasn't happened to anybody else I know.

• 1:08:23Jesse Michels?

  And these are all witnesses who came forward with you and someone went on Sean Ryan.

• 1:08:28Speaker 01

  I'm the only one that has been corroborated with or by people.

• 1:08:34Jesse Michels?

  Why do you think they chose you specifically?

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  Because they knew what I experienced because of what their personal involvement is with what they experienced. And that's kind of the thing of why he offered, when I went out, you know, to go see him for the first time personally, not at the event, but just on a personal basis, to explain what I saw. And one of the things that was, you know, because anybody can say that they're a part of something, right? But how do we really know? Well, when Jake took me on a nice little trip out to the desert, that was something that proved to me that this guy was legit.

• 1:09:10Jesse Michels?

  What'd you see?

• 1:09:11Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna tell you. I can't, I can't talk about that. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna burn Jake in the process.

• 1:09:17Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Because I had given him my word that I was not going to do that. He could easily have me sign an NDA, or he, you know, originally they wanted to blindfold me, and then just take it off and basically here you are. But that didn't happen.

• 1:09:31Jesse Michels?

  But you saw something cool and mind blowing and confirming of his prior experience?

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  Personally, yes, yes, personally, yes.

• 1:09:38Speaker 04

  Are you at least able to say if this was above or below ground?

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  I can't tell you.

• 1:09:42Speaker 04

  Gotcha.

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna hint to either or because I just, you know, like I said, I don't wanna burn Jake.

• 1:09:48Jesse Michels?

  Of course.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  He's, he is the reason why I've been included in certain aspects of this. Because for me, he wanted me to have firsthand experience with a lot of things that are about this subject. And he didn't have to do any of this for me. He could've just laid low, he could've just done his original job, and I would've never seen, I would've never understood it. I could've been just labeled one of the crazy psychopaths that some people think I am, and that could've been it.

• 1:10:15Jesse Michels?

  Have you learned anything more about the fact that maybe we have reverse engineered working craft, like this eight gun craft in our possession? That we've actually built and we know how to fly and that sort of thing? This idea of alien reproduction vehicles, which, check out Gerb's channel, he does amazing work on, and he talks about the Mark McCandlish story. Have you heard anything confirming of that?

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  Uh, yes, I have, but um, it's not something from Jake's side of the house, for example. It's more with other people that I've been in communications with.

• 1:10:46Jesse Michels?

  Anything you can share?

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I can just say that they exist.

• 1:10:51Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:10:51Speaker 01

  And I know where some of them are stored at. But that's about it.

• 1:10:55Jesse Michels?

  And do you think that the designs are copied? Or we derive material from the UFOs that come down? Or like, what's the?

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  My understanding is that we don't necessarily replicate the same materials these things are made out of. What my understanding is, we have the same, they can get them to look the same using materials we have on Earth. Probably even, you know, of course...

• 1:11:19Speaker 01

  Who's to say that they probably replicate the same materials to in a lab somewhere or they make them because they know what they're made of now because they've been doing this ever since the 40s and 50s. They've been bringing these craft out.

• 1:11:29Jesse Michels?

  So it's like design inspiration or mimicry or something?

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  I think it's mimicry for the most part.

• 1:11:33Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  Because if they get them to look, you know, something that looks extraterrestrial, but it's man-made and they want people to believe that, then by all means, they're gonna do that.

• 1:11:42Jesse Michels?

  The other implication is that we have propulsion modalities in our possession and we can work this stuff.

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  Yes, we can.

• 1:11:50Jesse Michels?

  That transcends chemical combustion and seems to break, you know, Newton's laws of conservation momentum and that sort of thing and leaves, you know, the trees unperturbed around, you know...

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  And making no noises, nothing like that. I mean, I'm a car guy, you know, so if there is like a fast car, you implement this kind of technology into, it'd be pretty incredible. It'd be very dangerous, but...

• 1:12:12Jesse Michels?

  Can we get any of this working civil side? Is that a good aspiration?

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  Let me ask you something. Somebody who,

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  let's just say you come up with something that's, could be very beneficial, but for you, you understand it can make you money or you can control people with it, and it puts you on a playing field that's above everybody else. Nobody else has the same stuff you do, but if you're this person who's greedy and this person who likes the aspect of being able to do whatever you want, except you get to fold it into some people who make decisions, i.e. lawmakers, and you pay them a lot of money, or you pay them money to basically steer clear, donate to their campaigns, and you basically are above the law, you can coerce politicians, you can coerce military officials, generals, you name it, by just throwing them sacks of cash.

• 1:13:07Speaker 01

  Are you gonna really wanna share with everybody if you have the stranglehold on the most powerful country on the entire planet?

• 1:13:13Jesse Michels?

  I think most people wouldn't, but I'd like to think I would, but I don't know.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  I mean, humanity.

• 1:13:21Jesse Michels?

  Or not necessarily, but isn't there a midpoint between those two things? Where you're like, you use it as leverage to get, you know, dictatorships abroad to reform, and you black box it in certain ways that can't be reverse engineered, and you dole it out in civil infrastructure, you still make the world a better place, but you also allow it to confer an advantage.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  It happens with fiber optics and night vision and stuff like that, right?

• 1:13:42Jesse Michels?

  So you believe the Philip Corso narrative?

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  To an extent. I think that what's derived from it's real, but I don't, you know, his theory of how they were, you know, we have jetliners that can fly through a lightning storm no problem, and very dense thunderstorms that have a lot of lightning, and they get hit by it and nothing happens. So why is something that's not even from this planet, or from a different civilization that's more advanced than we are, why is something going to be susceptible to a lightning strike? It's not.

• 1:14:12Jesse Michels?

  Do you know when we cracked gravity? If this is using like electro-gravitic propulsion, do you have any theories around?

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  Well, just from what's been already disclosed, which is 1954.

• 1:14:22Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  We've had the hook on gravity control since then.

• 1:14:27Jesse Michels?

  And what was 54 specifically?

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  Well, it's just from what Greer has alleged, one of his teammates that was in a vault that saw the documents that talked about gaining that kind of control.

• 1:14:39Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 1:14:40Speaker 01

  And this guy's been on the record several times. I don't know his name specifically, but he's been mentioned quite a bit.

• 1:14:46Jesse Michels?

  There was some experiment where we tied electromagnetism to gravity.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  Well, based off of like even, for example, when they retrieved the stuff from Nazi Germany back in the 40s, and then sent them over here with Operation Paperclip. Now, this can get into a whole different conversation. But they had some discs that they recovered.

• 1:15:05Jesse Michels?

  The Nazis did.

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  The Nazis developed the stuff, but it wasn't stable. So when they brought him over here, of course, you had the best scientists who are already working on this kind of stuff that were able to amplify it somehow. Now that you have the US government backing you, giving you citizenship, basically giving you right to do whatever you want because they need your help.

• 1:15:23Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  And this is how NASA was created because it was a German who created this.

• 1:15:27Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  It was also the CIA and FBI were created by these people too.

• 1:15:30Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, everything you're saying now, I can tell you is definitively factual.

• 1:15:33Speaker 01

  It's not conspiracy.

• 1:15:35Jesse Michels?

  Werner von Braun, Arthur Rudolph, basically the NASA Saturn project was a transplantation of the Nazi space program. And then you had Richard Mita, Victor Schauberger, you know, a lot of these guys, Henri Kwanza, who are working on lenticular aerodyne saucers. Either they moved over to the US or in Mita's case, I believe he, there's speculation he worked on the Avrocar project, the Canadian version. Schauberger, I know the Army Counterintelligence Corps tricked into giving all this propulsion, exotic propulsion stuff to the US and that made it actually to Brookhaven National Labs.

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  So that even brings up the question, like, did we even really win World War II if that happened? If we took the brightest minds, the top military leaders of the Third Reich.

• 1:16:22Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  And brought them here and they basically got into positions of power and influenced our government and created intelligence agencies which they wanted to replicate in Nazi Germany, we are living present day of what they wanted to accomplish back in the 40s. I speak fluent German, I know a lot about German history.

• 1:16:40Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:40Speaker 01

  And I know for a fact that...

• 1:16:43Jesse Michels?

  This is like this Philip K. Dick man in the high castle narrative, but like an undercover version or something where, so what, so if they infiltrated our highest ranks, which they sort of did, but do you think they sort of maintained Nazi allegiances?

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  Well, look at what happened with Ukraine. Now, this is what people don't talk about. Look at them waving Nazi flags. A lot of the people that went out of Nazi Germany went and occupied that area. There's Nazis here. I mean, look at some of the prisons and stuff like the Aryan gangs, but yes, there's societies that have Nazi influence in them. I can tell you for a fact, so what Hitler wanted to achieve was a militarized police force. What do we have now? Militarized police force. We have basically healthcare, some free healthcare. They have some sort of system for education, which is what they wanted to do. They wanted to basically put a ban on smoking a whole lot because they wanted healthier people. And it's funny, because even as a Freemason, one of the things that Hitler despised was us

• 1:17:39Speaker 01

  as Freemasons because of the secrecy that we have

• 1:17:42Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  and the way that we do rituals, which you know is nothing spectacular to an extent, because it's just tradition. But one of the things that he liked was how we kept things very secret and very word of mouth, i.e. what we call a pass and a grip. So a password and then a grip is obviously a handshake, depending on what degree you are, demonstrates what kind of grip you will give. And then of course, there's some grips that you give in the public and there's grips that you give only behind the doors of a lodge.

• 1:18:10Jesse Michels?

  No, I mean, yeah, like Werner von Braun, Rudolph Hess, Himmler, all these guys were really interested in the occult.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Everybody on that top level was, because that's... So part of this Council on Foreign Relations was something that helped set up the CIA.

• 1:18:25Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  Well, do you think most of these people that were in the CFR at the time? They were people who were read into the occult or participated in themselves in some of these societies. That's how they learned that the secrecy in these programs was based off of these organizations that know how to keep things compartmentalized, that should sound familiar. So they keep people segmented and then they basically bring people onto those segmented parts to basically stay in their lane. This is how you have different divisions and different things that people work on that basically integrate into a bigger picture.

• 1:18:59Jesse Michels?

  You're almost implying that they're like control systems that go deeper than just, you know, NDAs and this is your directive.

• 1:19:07Speaker 01

  Very much so, that is the truth, and this has happened for thousands of years. This is no different. The only difference is, is the people who exist today are taking the influence from the past and still implementing it, so when the next person steps in line, they get to do the same thing and basically keep it going the same way. And it never changes. The only thing that changes is when you have people like Jake, for example, who come forward and expose what their personal experiences are and basically try to not necessarily shatter the secrecy, but they want certain parts of the secrecy to be out so that way humanity can benefit. I don't have a problem with that.

• 1:19:43Jesse Michels?

  What do you guys think is like, because disclosure is in this very interesting place now, where I feel like it's made kind of a quantum leap forward and then mainstream society. I mean, a lot of this stuff came out around the inauguration.

• 1:19:56Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:19:56Jesse Michels?

  And if you look at like what's happening in the White House and with USAID and like DOGE, like, most people are concerned with that, and they don't give a shit about UFOs. And then you have UFO World where they're like, "We have a guy who came out who says he retrieved a craft firsthand," and it's like they're on an island, like, from the rest of society. There's some dark matter between them that's like undetectable. So where does disclosure go from here? And is there like an aspirational, you know, good place for it to go directionally?

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  Let me ask you something. So, everybody understands how the government is astray these days, right?

• 1:20:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  So, you have all these moving parts and people don't know what they're doing, or they do know what they're doing, but there's just so many different things that are developing within the government right now. Do you think realistically pulling these technologies from these black programs and putting them into the hands of people who don't know what the fuck they're doing is a smart move?

• 1:20:52Jesse Michels?

  No.

• 1:20:53Speaker 01

  It's not.

• 1:20:53Jesse Michels?

  Not willy-nilly, not like, you know.

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  No. This is why amnesty, and this is why this needs to get more transparent, at least for a governance side. Now, some of the free energy tech we could benefit from, but as far as the craft or being able to fly, that can stay top secret and it can just be like, "Yeah, we know nuclear weapons exist or thermonuclear weapons. We don't know how they work, but we know they exist."

• 1:21:15Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Shouldn't that be the right analogy where it's like nuclear physics versus nuclear trade secrets?

• 1:21:22Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:21:22Jesse Michels?

  Where it's like, obviously, yeah, we shouldn't let trade secrets out, but as far as the physics, it should be open to them.

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  I can tell you personally that I don't think the government would even have any kind of first indication on how to manage these programs. They're not gonna know what to do with it. If they're so, and this is the problem.

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  To your face, they're gonna tell you they're all about the right motives or doing the right thing for this country. But when push comes to shove and they don't want to do a fucking thing about it, they're gonna put people, "Oh, it's my political career I give a shit more about."

• 1:21:52Jesse Michels?

  Well, Congress has an 11% approval rating. I've always thought one of the most overrated versions of disclosure is having congressional oversight over there. Like, I think a lot of these guys don't know their asses from their foreheads.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  No, they don't.

• 1:22:05Jesse Michels?

  As far as the public understanding basic ontological truths and benefiting to the extent they can from the tech, I mean, that feels like a clear net good.

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  What you and I have is an expectation for the government is much different than what they have for themselves. Their expectations is I get to go home every night, I get to check my bank account, make sure I'm getting paid the same funding I got last year, or if not more, and that their reputation still sticks around as I'm Senator so-and-so and I'm this cool person because I'm in government.

• 1:22:32Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. I mean, it's an oligarchy, it's special interests run the entire thing.

• 1:22:37Speaker 01

  These people are not powerful at all. This group that has this kind of stuff is way more powerful than them. So these guys on Capitol Hill that think that their shit doesn't stink, I hate to break it to you guys, you guys are pawns.

• 1:22:49Jesse Michels?

  Do you not, but, so, you think that the UFO legacy programs are almost like breakaway power fiefdoms that have leverage over the federal government?

• 1:22:57Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, they have more money than our government, are you kidding?

• 1:22:59Jesse Michels?

  So you think, like, with this transition, do these UFO programs automatically roll up to Trump, or are they their own thing?

• 1:23:07Speaker 01

  They're gonna be their own thing, because here's the thing, Trump's not gonna know what to do with this, because most of the people on Capitol Hill don't believe in this shit. And some of the ones that do are very far and few between.

• 1:23:16Jesse Michels?

  But Trump, Trump has to know that this stuff is real. You don't think so? But his son, on his podcast, interviewed Ross Colthart before Ross Colthart broke the Jake story, and I'm just reading between the lines and speculating.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Let me, let me break it to you.

• 1:23:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  I've had meetings with some of these people in Trump's administration. I can, I can back it up, because I got photographic evidence, and I participate in a lot of meetings in Washington.

• 1:23:40Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:41Speaker 01

  Because of what I'm able to provide them as far as, little bit of advice, but a little bit more like, personal experience, okay?

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  They will say it, yes, they're interested into it, but when their political careers come up, because now they're going to be thought of as nutcases. Every single person in this field is thought of that. It's the stigma. Until you have somebody like Trump, for example, he's more fixated on things that are more short-term, that can be a long-term thing, which is great. I'm not bashing that. I think his approach of trying to clean up the government is great, because what happens is now they start seeing funding go in different directions that's not known. When that's apparent, that is going to basically say, where is this money going to? Then you're going to have people like Jake knocking on the door, saying, I know exactly where that's going to, and it's going to these programs. Well, what are these programs centered

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  around? Well, NHI technology, or reverse engineered, and all this kind of stuff. So it could segue into it. What's going to happen with disclosure is not an overnight thing. This is going to be something that has to take a few generations for people to understand, because this is, unfortunately, how fast humans learn.

• 1:24:54Jesse Michels?

  You know a lot about the money flow of like all this stuff. You want to just talk about that?

• 1:24:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, I gotta say, I fully agree with you guys that disclosure probably won't come from the Congress. I mean, look at Kirk McConnell, the staffer for Senator Gillibrand on the Senate Armed Services Committee. Since 2017, he has been pulling witnesses, talking to witnesses, and briefing his senator.

• 1:25:15Jesse Michels?

  He's great. He knows a lot.

• 1:25:17Speaker 01

  I know. I know. I talked to him in a skiff.

• 1:25:19Jesse Michels?

  Okay, so you spoke to him.

• 1:25:21Speaker 01

  I spoke to him directly firsthand. Yeah, so he's a good guy.

• 1:25:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, because at Seoul, he was asked by a couple individuals if he had heard of a blue-on-blue firefight team with a Lockheed retrieval team, and about, you know, transporting humans in reverse-engineered craft. And he said both he had heard. Yes, so definitely you have talked to him.

• 1:25:38Jesse Michels?

  So that sounds like maybe the craft is Lockheed?

• 1:25:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, but as far as the money, I mean, I agree that this is probably like a black programs or breakaway projects. I think most of these operate in DOD laboratories or various MRTFBs, major range test facility bases. A lot of these have underground locations. This cash flow is generally generally moved through FFRDCs, federally funded research and development centers, or UARCs, university affiliated research centers. And this is so the federal government can in those who know in the federal government can engage with legacy programs operations through these FFRDCs and UARCs to make joint USG and contractor programs, the black programs as we think of them.

• 1:26:20Jesse Michels?

  Give us a few big examples of FFRDC.

• 1:26:23Speaker 04

  MITRE, RAND, Center for Naval Analysis, the IDA, Institute for Defense Analysis.

• 1:26:29Jesse Michels?

  How much money do these organizations?

• 1:26:31Speaker 04

  They all get tons. And there's something called Crystal City.

• 1:26:35Jesse Michels?

  Do we have a sense of like, cause like, yeah, what's Crystal City?

• 1:26:38Speaker 04

  Crystal City is a location just south of the Pentagon in Washington DC. That is where pretty much all of the biggest defense contractors are.

• 1:26:45Jesse Michels?

  It's in Arlington, right?

• 1:26:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you have the Aerospace Corporation, you have the IDA, you have the CNA, the Center for Naval Analysis. And I really think the amount of money that's moved can't really be tracked because I myself have talked to witnesses who have seen cash moved, like physical bales of cash taken to locations.

• 1:27:04Speaker 01

  Most of the transactions are in cash. And this is something that most even people I've talked to have talked about that that's how they do things. Everything's self-funded in that regard, right? So if you have a program that you can benefit off of siphoning funds from the government, right, tax dollars, that get allocated to that, but then you don't have to tell people what you're specifically doing. You just say, yeah, it's going to this program and we need 60 billion for it. Right? So then when it gets to a point of them actually generating own revenue by themselves, they still need that lifeline of government funding because then it gives them a purpose because the government gives them the legal authority to do so. If the government was like, you know what, we know what you guys are doing. It's bullshit. We're going to go ahead and cut off funding. Well,

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  they're still making money, but that's the thing that they'll discover is how they're making money, which is not in a legal sense, right? Because it's still kept from the government. You're using tax dollars to generate programs which then can generate revenue, which then enrich certain people's lives or they use it to replicate technologies, if you will.

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  So essentially, if they figure out everything they're doing is illegal, then guess what? They're not going to risk it. So what are they going to do? They're going to continue lying to everybody on Capitol Hill. And because some of these senators and politicians are also read into this, but at least maybe they're getting, "Hey, I'll give you a couple million for a campaign. Just don't look over here."

• 1:28:28Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 1:28:29Speaker 01

  It happens all the time.

• 1:28:30Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Well, you have, you know, Congressman Mike Turner, who represents the

• 1:28:34Speaker 01

  He got pulled off.

• 1:28:35Jesse Michels?

  district that Wright Pat is in, Wright Patterson, which is the center of all UFO lore and reverse engineering, back to Roswell. And I believe his top three donors are Boeing, Lockheed, and maybe I'm getting the third one, Raytheon, you know, some

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  It's Raytheon.

• 1:28:50Jesse Michels?

  It is Raytheon. And he basically was, helped nix the eminent domain clause, you know, as part of the

• 1:28:58Speaker 01

  I'll explain why that happened. All right. Now, everybody thinks, "Oh, shit, that sucked, and we didn't get anything out of that." Yes, we did. We understand that it's always going to be one step forward, two steps back. We're going to figure out what's going on and who's a part of what. When that was gutted, and who opposed it, was basically saying, "Hey, we're the ones that oppose it. Now we know who's a part of it." So ideally, having them nixed, that was a good thing because they exposed themselves to us. Now we know what to look for and who to look for.

• 1:29:35Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  So it wasn't a bad thing. It was expected, but it was a good thing because now we know who's in charge of what.

• 1:29:42Jesse Michels?

  And Turner's out now, which is cool.

• 1:29:44Speaker 01

  And I think he was out because they figured it out, what he was doing. To an extent, not necessarily with UAP, but just with other programs, right?

• 1:29:52Jesse Michels?

  Do we have a, do we have a sense of yearly, but like if the, you know, NDAA, National Defense Authorization Act, basically our defense budget yearly, is like 800, 900 billion? Do you have a sense of how much of that is UFO, or is UFO off the books and is it even greater than that?

• 1:30:06Speaker 04

  Probably off the books, but there's one example of specific monetary value I can talk about. So I covered once a witness codenamed Ed, who talked of a joint reverse engineering program between the Nevada Test and Trade Range and Edwards Air Force Base, two highly prolific locations. Done a ton of analysis on there, but this individual, he, after his time at the Air Force, he went on to work for the Pentagon for the research, development, test, and evaluation panel chain for the Air Force. It was here during the span of, I think, 2012 to 2016. He spoke of $34 billion and $40 billion being scrubbed from the books for non-transfer of authority funds for the Air Force.

• 1:30:45Speaker 00

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• 1:31:15Speaker 04

  In respected years. I'm not sure which year is the 34 and which year is the 40, but just wiped off the books.

• 1:31:20Jesse Michels?

  And then, but then you, simultaneous to all of this, you know, if we're talking about octagonal-shaped crafts that can use electroggravitics, it's like China and Russia are like eating our lunch, as far as I know, on hypersonics. And so, so like, how do you kind of square those?

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  I will, I will say this.

• 1:31:38Jesse Michels?

  And hypersonics are associated with the same contractors that are associated with this issue. Yeah, so it's always this question of like, have we actually just stagnated and this is just like some softening of the enemy sort of, you know, narrative or whatever? Yeah.

• 1:31:51Speaker 01

  I had an interesting meeting on Capitol Hill, and one of the things that was brought up by a particular gentleman who knows of what's going on, I'm not going to say who he is, what he was able to figure out and provide us during that meeting was Russia and China have their own retrieval teams of non-human intelligence, and they have their own technologies, reverse engineered, and they're pretty much on par with what we're doing. And it's to the point to where we, as in the United States, assets that deal with this, have gentleman's agreement with both countries to say if we target and shoot down NHI, whatever team gets there first gets the prize. Whatever team gets there second has to wave off.

• 1:32:33Speaker 01

  And this person's a pretty, pretty high place in the government. So, the fact that that was established, because that was a theory of mine, it's like, we can't be the only people that have this in this country. But it's not even just these countries, it's this organization which is transnational. They just happen to exist in other countries that are doing the same stuff we do here.

• 1:32:52Jesse Michels?

  Do you think that this could bring us together? I mean, you have rumors of like, you know, Reagan and Gorbachev, this isn't even a rumor. Gorbachev, Mikhail Gorbachev says in an interview with Charlie Rose, that he was sitting with Reagan at some like UN event or something, and Reagan, you know, whispers over in his ear, he says:

• 1:33:10Speaker 06

  If the United States were attacked by someone from outer space, would you help us? I said, no doubt about it. He said, we too.

• 1:33:28Jesse Michels?

  And so like, do you think there's any hope of this not being this sort of game theory dynamic, but actually sort of, you know, creating kind of peace between the nations? Or is that just totally naive?

• 1:33:38Speaker 01

  I think, I think the only way that we're gonna get full disclosure is if we are peaceful to each other. I think if everybody puts their fucking swords down and understands that we have a bigger problem to deal with here, and it's bigger than ourselves, this is the only way we're gonna gain ground. The problem with this, this field, if you wanna call UFOs, or a community, right? I don't even consider my part, me a part of it, I'm just somebody who saw something fucking crazy, and here you go. So, there's so much division, there's so many factions with this, where everybody thinks, oh, this person's right, this person's wrong, or this doesn't make sense, or this makes sense. If everybody was to understand that we're all trying to do the same thing, and we all group together, we could get so much further along with this. But everybody's like, oh, I hate this person because of this, or I heard this about this

• 1:34:23Speaker 01

  person, so, you know, he doesn't contribute anything. We have to be uniting together to make this happen.

• 1:34:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:31Speaker 01

  And it's the problem. I don't think it will ever happen unless everybody puts their damn swords down.

• 1:34:35Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. The quote unquote UFO community, which I say, I think it's so cringe worthy. But it's like, it's, it's the, it's the most like, it's like a reality TV show. It's this weird. I try to stay out of all of it, but it's, it's so bizarre.

• 1:34:50Speaker 01

  I don't even pay attention to it because it's just, you know what? I got more important shit to deal with. So just either having these meetings or trying to gain ground on this.

• 1:34:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:00Speaker 01

  That's more my focus. I don't give a shit what other people say in this community. It's just like, you, you guys, they can criticize people so easy.

• 1:35:08Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:08Speaker 01

  But if they were ever called to go on Capitol Hill to like talk, they would never do it. None of them would.

• 1:35:13Jesse Michels?

  Do you feel like people have ever tried to co-opt you, given your story? Cause I mean, you, you signed something basically with this Air Force, you know, lieutenant colonel where it's like your, your life is under threat if you say something.

• 1:35:24Speaker 01

  Well, now that they've passed these laws, I mean, that doesn't apply. And the, you know, the, I have had some blowback, you know, I've had, I've had harassment. I haven't had direct threats that I'm aware of, but other people have

• 1:35:38Speaker 01

  heard things, but I can't confirm that. But one of the instances, so when I testified to Arrow in April of 2023, after that trip, I started having these helicopters hover over my house or, you know, my dad's residence, for example, or over my business.

• 1:35:54Jesse Michels?

  What sort of helicopters?

• 1:35:55Speaker 01

  Uh, some of them, most of the time are Blackhawks. And there's one particular, um, CH47, um, which is a dual rotor helicopter. It's army variant. That, um, doesn't matter where I'm at in the city. If I move to a different area, it pops up there.

• 1:36:12Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 1:36:13Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. And this has been, and it's, it's weird because you can. I have FlightRadar24 where I can track these because this is, you know, I had referenced this to Jake several, almost several years ago, explaining that this is what kind of harassment. There's other people in the government as well that were having harassment like that happen to them too. And partially, I think that's why there's, why we can't rely on government to do disclosure because once they figure out what they're up against, they're not going to do that. Something that has much more money than them, has their own private military, has their own assets, they're more cutting edge than compared to what we've got. I mean, but it's a symbiotic relationship because we need these contracting companies to help build stuff for our defense programs, which the government needs because this is

• 1:36:56Speaker 01

  what helps us keep as a superpower in this country, but it also curbs terrorism, it curbs wars that we could have in any other part of the world. We need them. So if we're to gut them from what they do best, and that basically weakens us as well, because we need these companies to come up with our next, you know, um, generation seven fighter jet whenever that comes out, or a new, you know, tank, or new, um, medical systems for military, or whatever it is that they do. So gutting them would be something that would basically...

• 1:37:26Jesse Michels?

  So you think they're actually producing a lot of innovation? Because like, society at large is stagnated when it comes to tech.

• 1:37:32Speaker 01

  Society has, but look at the military, it's much more advanced because that's their focus. That's the war machine. So if they don't have a war...

• 1:37:39Jesse Michels?

  But it also goes back and forth, like you hear these stories of like, you know, nukes operating off floppy disks, you know, the story in like, I think it was like 2017 or something.

• 1:37:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had talked about that, and it was, it was something I found out personally, was that they keep it archaic because it's harder to hack. You can't, if you have a signal that goes up top side...

• 1:37:57Jesse Michels?

  So that's intentional?

• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  It's intentional.

• 1:37:59Speaker 04

  NORAD operating offline, so no system breach.

• 1:38:02Speaker 01

  That's why they do it that way, and some of these black sites work the same way.

• 1:38:05Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:38:06Speaker 01

  So there was, you know, what everybody has to understand is black sites operate independently. Yes, they get funding from the government with some research and development programs that they do, but they operate entirely by themselves. It's almost like its own country. They got their own people to manage these things, like these refugees they get from these other countries, that they scream for P3 that don't cut, make the cut. Well, they have them as janitors, cooks, you know, people to maintain these facilities. For every single operator, you're going to have 20 personnel that are going to basically support that operator that are in these facilities, if that makes sense. Such as a medical officer, whatever that is, and admin people, payroll, if you will.

• 1:38:43Jesse Michels?

  There are people essentially missing all over the world. Are they, are these people willfully signing up to be psionic assets? Or in certain cases, are they being rounded up against their will?

• 1:38:52Speaker 01

  They're signing up to my understanding. This is what I've been, you know, been told over and over again is that they volunteer for it.

• 1:38:59Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:38:59Speaker 01

  Well, they get paid well. And if you're in a country where you don't get that much money and you don't get to do anything cutting edge, but you have a skill set that can be used in a, could be in a positive way. Granted, we're not in these programs, so we don't understand really what they do. But if they were to do something that's fun, that they put their skills to, they're gonna do it. You know, anybody who's got the skills to do that.

• 1:39:22Speaker 04

  And so you're saying their family might be taken along to work as logistics and maintenance and so forth?

• 1:39:27Speaker 01

  Potentially, but I can't confirm that because, you know, I haven't, I haven't talked to a P3 refugee from a, you know, that was, oh yeah, my family came with. No, I've never heard of that. But then again, I would say it's entirely possible if they're gonna take the people that are essentially gonna make them money or give them technologies, then why not?

• 1:39:46Jesse Michels?

  Are there gifted and talented education programs in the US that work as feeders to like a C UFO program?

• 1:39:53Speaker 01

  That I cannot, I don't know that personally. I have heard it from multiple people. I know people who claim that they were a part of that, but I can't personally talk about it because I have no idea.

• 1:40:06Jesse Michels?

  Do you know anything about this?

• 1:40:09Speaker 04

  I only know one individual and that is Jordan.

• 1:40:12Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:12Speaker 04

  Who has talked about, you know, working on, on programs and being in gate programs as a kid.

• 1:40:17Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 1:40:17Speaker 04

  He's the only individual I know. And it was interesting to see him come forward with Skywatchers. So I always knew him by his previous pseudonym, Martin.

• 1:40:24Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 1:40:25Speaker 04

  So I'm interested to hear more from him about that.

• 1:40:27Jesse Michels?

  What do you guys think about Arrow generally, since the All Domain Anomalies Resolution Office?

• 1:40:32Speaker 01

  I, I understand it was a front for basically sifting through information and plucking people to figure out what they know and then either trying to shut them up or... Just publicly dismissed the person, you know, like they did with anybody that testified. You know, they misconstrued all our stories. What I understand now is that the director there is really hell bent on getting the right information. Now granted.

• 1:40:58Jesse Michels?

  Do you like the, this is John Kozlowski, who is formerly of the National Security Administration and, or National Security Agency, sorry. And before that, you had Kirkpatrick, who like, I don't know, one person in this world who likes, you know, I think most people think he was.

• 1:41:13Speaker 01

  Anybody who's associated with them, of course, are gonna like them because I'm pretty sure they're getting paid the same.

• 1:41:17Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 1:41:18Speaker 01

  You know, that's just what it is. They're gonna, they're gonna stick up for their own guy.

• 1:41:21Jesse Michels?

  But so most people think, I think Kirkpatrick's sort of a bad faith actor and then Kozlowski, the verdict's still out, but you think maybe there's hope?

• 1:41:28Speaker 01

  From what I've heard from people dealing with him on a personal level, that he's for the right issue.

• 1:41:33Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:41:33Speaker 01

  Was yet to be seen, but we will see. I mean, like I've said, and Jake Stephen said the same thing, you'll know them by their deeds. And if they start doing good things, then that could potentially bring us something to good. But if they start doing things that we're not approving, or, you know, that is not gonna help with what we're trying to do, then I would say it's definitely somebody that we need to consider not even involving.

• 1:41:53Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 1:41:54Speaker 01

  You know? I think the hardest part is figuring out who's gonna be on the right side of history with this.

• 1:42:02Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. What do you, like, how do you position yourself now to be on the right side of history? I mean, clearly, just by coming out, in my opinion, I think you're showing courage and on the right side of history. But on a go-forward basis, now that you're kind of implicated in the topic, how do you?

• 1:42:17Speaker 01

  I mean, if I had a job around this where I could contribute and bring the answers and basically provide to the public that this is real, I would enjoy that. It's much more interesting. Business-wise, it's always interesting, but it ebbs and flows. And the fact is, is, you know, when I have these meetings in DC and with important people, it kind of like.

• 1:42:42Speaker 01

  It always fuels my fire because I get to contribute in a sense to actually help people understand what they should be looking for. And so when I get invited to partake in those meetings and I was like, okay, this is, this is cool. I get to meet very interesting people. I get to meet people I never think I'd ever meet because most people see these people on TV and it's like, oh yeah, there's this person here, you know, he's a part of the administration or he's doing this. So I think if I can contribute in a sense that's positive, I think that that's, that's what I can, die leaving this earth, knowing that I, I tried to help get us somewhere better. Because I, all I want from this is just for us to be better, for us to have these technologies

• 1:43:23Speaker 01

  that we could live a lot longer, we can live happier, we can be healthier, and we can be more knowledgeable and can be at a higher consciousness.

• 1:43:30Jesse Michels?

  Do you think that these technologies will ever come out and, you know, we'll get?

• 1:43:35Speaker 01

  Some of them are. There's, there's, there's some rumors and speculation from some reputable people. I know that that's what they're trying to do. And it's more medical-based technologies.

• 1:43:45Jesse Michels?

  Like what?

• 1:43:45Speaker 01

  So it's a scalar technologies, right? So this device, essentially all they do is if you're not there presently, they use a photo of you and it has to just be like a symmetrical photo of your face. And they did this with my dog, for example, because he, like I said, he was diagnosed with some sort of bladder mass that they thought was cancerous. And then the scan, it hits the body with around 886,000 different frequencies to up to 1.2 million frequencies. And then what it does is when one of those frequencies registers or pings, that specific ping tells you that you have this specific element. With this specific element, it also talks about specific frequencies that can terminate that specific cell.

• 1:44:29Jesse Michels?

  And it can do this remotely via a photo?

• 1:44:32Speaker 01

  Correct. Now, the caveat to this is that they could kill people the same way. By manifesting harmful cells like fast-acting cancers, does that sound familiar? Have you ever heard whistleblowers or people trying to come forward that got hit with this kind of shit to get them to shut up or it kills them pretty quick?

• 1:44:49Jesse Michels?

  You might know better than me.

• 1:44:50Speaker 04

  James Allen, the documentarian of Mark McCandlish and the Flexliner story. He was diagnosed and dead of an aggressive form of cancer in about three weeks.

• 1:44:58Jesse Michels?

  Do you think that that was caused by some sort of remote scaler weapon?

• 1:45:03Speaker 04

  I'm more interested in the fact his autopsy said he was poisoned with heavy metals.

• 1:45:08Jesse Michels?

  So that almost sounds more like, you know, conventional or something. But have you, so you've heard, you know, specifics of people having been hit with cancer?

• 1:45:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I can't talk about the people I'm associated with on that because I don't want to.

• 1:45:21Jesse Michels?

  Okay. That's scary.

• 1:45:23Speaker 01

  It is scary. This is the problem is that bullets and stuff like that are archaic. They don't need that shit. These weapon systems that they have that they can turn into weapon systems with scaler, manifesting growths and cancers into your, or they can fuck with your eyesight, they could fuck with your brain. You know, that's very real stuff. So when they are able to use this technology in a good sense, there's always going to be somebody who's bad who wants to use the same technology in a harmful way, which is why it's not public. And, um, you know, it's not like these people that use it that I know that have used it on me are like greedy people, but they cure a lot of people. And sometimes they cure, I've seen.

• 1:46:02Jesse Michels?

  So you think that technology is going to be the Scalar wave healing technologies?

• 1:46:06Speaker 01

  They already have something.

• 1:46:08Jesse Michels?

  Might be exfiltrated?

• 1:46:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, yeah, there's always a flip side to everything. In order to have good, you have to have bad. This is what people don't understand. Nothing's always ever good and nothing's always ever solely bad.

• 1:46:18Jesse Michels?

  All tech is dual use.

• 1:46:19Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:46:19Jesse Michels?

  AI.

• 1:46:20Speaker 01

  Little cart, right? I need to go to the store and do this. Some guy looks at it like, you know, I'm gonna go run over 30 people.

• 1:46:25Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nuclear free energy or nuclear bomb or, you know.

• 1:46:28Speaker 01

  It's the same thing with this technology, you know? It just depends on what the person wants to utilize it with. A knife that can cut food for you so you don't choke to death is the same person who's gonna go thinking ill of it and go stab a bunch of people?

• 1:46:41Jesse Michels?

  It is interesting when you say like the remote, there's this guy Joe Dispenza that does like, you know, self-actualization work. And it's always like, you know, you have these like remote healings and like people concentrate on a photo and stuff and. You know, I don't know what to make of it.

• 1:46:55Speaker 01

  I don't know what to make of it either, but I know this device was pretty crazy, but it's great. And, you know, so the type of frequencies and when, so here's the thing that's cool about it. So the frequencies that it pings and then it suggests, you know, because it goes down to your DNA, but then it goes all the way to the atoms and molecules that make up your body. And then it can also detect things that haven't manifested yet. And it can curb that.

• 1:47:25Speaker 01

  So for me, for example, I didn't tell them my medical history, but when they did the scan on me, they found out everything about me that I never told them.

• 1:47:32Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 1:47:32Speaker 01

  And I didn't even know this about myself. My dad's, you know, I was born with very thick blood. And so I needed a transfusion when I was born. My dad's like, yeah, you've had thick blood ever.

• 1:47:40Jesse Michels?

  That showed up on the scanner. You showed it here.

• 1:47:42Speaker 01

  Because the reason why it showed up because the way that my arteries and veins are working harder because of having to pump the thick blood.

• 1:47:48Jesse Michels?

  And but you then you talked about it with your dad. You didn't even know.

• 1:47:51Speaker 01

  I didn't even know. He told me, he's like, yeah, well, you know, I told him, I said, well, they said that I had thick blood. And he says, yeah, you've had thick blood since you were a baby. You had to get a transfusion. And that's the reason why my arteries and veins and capillaries.

• 1:48:03Jesse Michels?

  They're definitely like quacky versions of this that exist commercially right now.

• 1:48:08Speaker 01

  There is, and it's called energy enhancement systems, which are, you know, so you stand by these screens or sit by these screens and the frequencies they hit you with are supposed to be of healing frequencies. I have yet to do that. I can't say if it's legitimate. It may be there's people I know that that have had that done. But with this particular device is it's something that I I really hope to God that this comes out. Because.

• 1:48:34Jesse Michels?

  You I mean, you're saying there is a plan to exfiltrate it for commercial.

• 1:48:38Speaker 01

  For commercial use, yes, there is. But then you're getting into something that's like alternative medicine is what this will fall under because Western medicine is so heavily involved with FDA and having to do things regarding that with what they said.

• 1:48:49Jesse Michels?

  Wouldn't this theoretically take out Big Pharma?

• 1:48:52Speaker 01

  That's why they don't want to help.

• 1:48:54Jesse Michels?

  Can you live forever on this thing? Are there are there people in the UFO program who are gonna live to 300?

• 1:48:58Speaker 01

  I mean, the person that one of the people that exists today, and I don't know who they are, they're probably on the first already part of living forever in our world right now because of what the technologies. That is a possibility.

• 1:49:09Jesse Michels?

  Well, I would I would love to understand this stuff better because it seems so prima facie absurd. But I also, you know, I'm interested in this stuff and there's. You know, you can turn molecular mass into frequency. That's not at all woo woo to say in physics or biology. And every, you know, if you did take almost like a bank of like this organ should be operating at, you know, whatever optimum frequency, you could probably tune it. There's a field called cymatics.

• 1:49:36Speaker 01

  Correct, correct.

• 1:49:36Jesse Michels?

  Where with vibrations, you could, you can create, you know, sand structures in like these vibrational plates.

• 1:49:41Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:49:42Jesse Michels?

  And so you could theoretically, and we know that cellular communication occurs via voltage gated ion channels.

• 1:49:49Speaker 01

  Bingo.

• 1:49:50Jesse Michels?

  And so you can, the field, there is a bioelectric field to everybody. These are all sort of facts. And so theoretically with acoustics and electromagnetic fields, you could affect bodily functions. How you do that in a precise way to heal people, that feels very hard for me to understand.

• 1:50:08Speaker 01

  Well, it's hard for me to understand because again, like I said, I was exposed to this. So the first scan took 12, 12 and a half hours. I was in this chair and they were sitting there working like literally overnight.

• 1:50:19Jesse Michels?

  And you're sure this isn't really good counter intel, like the subway order?

• 1:50:22Speaker 01

  No, this is not a good counter intel. This was something, this was something that I, that I was, that was used on me.

• 1:50:29Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:30Speaker 01

  In a sense to one, build trust with this particular person, but also to understand that this is something that is real.

• 1:50:37Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:37Speaker 01

  And it's something that can benefit humanity. I'm more interested in that. I don't, you know, yeah, the UFO stuff's cool because they fly. The medical shit, the stuff that we could also do with this technology is going to be far more advanced. Even with consciousness, I mean, that's more mind blowing than just watching a craft fly. I'm sorry, but you know, people are so enamored with those. But it's like, that's the boring part of it. Jake's even said the same thing.

• 1:50:58Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, totally, yeah.

• 1:50:59Speaker 01

  You know, so when I, so the first treatment was 12 hours of hook to this. So I fell asleep. They gave me stem cells in the same process and exosomes, which was good. They also took my blood because it was thick. So they put it under a microscope to see how thick it is. It's pretty thick, but you know, being on hormone replacement therapy and having to do blood dumps and stuff like that is what I keep up with it. Plus they told me to take baby aspirin, 81 milligrams or micrograms, if you want to call it that, daily to help with it. So I didn't even know that. I said I had osteoporosis. Well, I don't drink milk. I hate milk. Milk, I mean, I like stuff that has milk like cheese and ice cream, but it hates me. So yeah, some days it's worth it, some days it's not.

• 1:51:41Speaker 01

  So it knew that about me. There's a bunch of other things that it said, you know, that it was able to detect.

• 1:51:47Jesse Michels?

  And you've never seen the machine?

• 1:51:49Speaker 01

  I have never seen the machine. This was last year, late February, early March.

• 1:51:55Jesse Michels?

  But you felt it healed your dog? And did it heal something with you?

• 1:51:59Speaker 01

  It healed something with me. I had parasites. I didn't even know because I started getting like very bad heartburn. My stomach, like I was, my appetite was shit. I could not eat. And I was wondering what it was. I was like, okay, well, I need to take this medication. And it didn't make it any better. Then when I got the scan and it got rid of the parasites, because it listed three different types.

• 1:52:15Jesse Michels?

  And you felt better immediately?

• 1:52:17Speaker 01

  I felt like I was like 20 years old again.

• 1:52:19Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 1:52:19Speaker 01

  And this was happened over a week. So part of it, so 12 hours of the first one, roughly six hours, the second one, and then the destruction sequence that they do using these frequencies to target the parasites and to kill off the bad cells took about four and a half hours. What they also do on this device is they program purified water, because water in itself, if you look through ancient history, also is a conductor for the body, just like anything else in our life. So they program this water and then basically you ingest it twice a day, morning and evening. There's no medications. They didn't have to cut me open. They didn't have to do any of that. And everything that they scanned me was resolved.

• 1:52:56Jesse Michels?

  Can I speak to these people?

• 1:52:57Speaker 01

  I can get you in touch with these people. It's only word of mouth, so don't put their information out if they've agreed to it. But they'll ask you questions and they will basically, you know, they want to know who you are first, which if you, you're Jesse Michaels, everybody knows who you are in this. And I'm sure they do too. So with my dog, like I said, my dad took him to the vet, because I gave him to my dad when I was competing, because I had a full-time job and then having to train for a show, which took about four to five hours a day on top of a 12, 13-hour job. It was not fair to my dog. So I gave him to my dad. So my dad took him to the vet and they said that he had a bladder mass and it was looking like cancer. So they're like, yeah, you've got to go to an oncologist to figure out what it is. He didn't want to do that. So

• 1:53:38Speaker 01

  I told my dad, I said, hey, this is going to sound fucking nuts, but hear me out. So I explained a little bit to him, at least what he understands. And so I got in touch with these people and said, hey, dog is not looking too good. And can you guys do anything with animals? And they said, yes, they can do cats and dogs right now and humans. They're trying to do other, you know, like bovine, for example, or horses is something they may be able to do at some point because they're always refining. And I don't know how they do this. So they told me to take a, I told my dad, send me a picture of his face, you know, as a very recent photo. So I did that. My dad had told me within a matter of weeks, because I started giving him this other stuff

• 1:54:21Speaker 01

  that they have, which is like a blue, is like a nano blue, for example. So what this blue stuff does is that you ingest it and it starts to basically kill all the bacteria and viruses inside your body. So it makes it easier for this treatment to take, to take effect as well. So I told my dad, I said, give him one M L in the morning every day and then they're going to do the treatments. So they did about four or five treatments on him, said he wasn't looking too good. But then they started doing the more treatments and with this blue. And he was, when he would urinate, it was very small because his bladder was taken out. Now he'll sit there forever, just trying to get everything out. There was no surgery involved.

• 1:55:03Speaker 01

  Like I said, he had cloudy eyes because he's getting old. They got rid of all that. He's like a puppy again. And his appetite is still the same, you know, he was, some days he wasn't feeling too good where he was, didn't want to move. I mean, because he's 13, 14 years old almost. Now it's a different story. And knowing that this exists, my grand, my grandma was basically like my mom to me. And she raised me, she ended up dying from pancreatic cancer. That was the stage where when they found it. If I could, if I would have known about this, that somebody like her, I could have had helped and they could have done something about it. Now granted. Talking about curing cancer is very iffy. And it also depends on obviously what side of the fence you sit on.

• 1:55:48Speaker 01

  I know from my experience with what it did for me and what it did for my dog. Completely cured us. I do not doubt that this would be something that can help people that are literally losing their lives over illnesses.

• 1:56:00Jesse Michels?

  And the reason for not putting this out super publicly like right now is the dual use implication?

• 1:56:06Speaker 01

  Dual use, but also the FDA. If this technology exists with these people. It could really be profound and change this, but you have big pharma that's more interested in getting this money. And that's the thing that upset me with COVID because obviously per diagnosis, these doctors are getting somewhere from 16 to 30 grand per fucking diagnosis. It's like, yeah, so of course there's incentive for you guys to literally market everything as COVID. So anybody in the medical industry, if you're going to do the right thing, start thinking on ethics. This is the problem with this world today. It's because of greed, it's because of the incentives that people get, and it's because people want to be selfish about it.

• 1:56:43Jesse Michels?

  And the overlap in financial interest between big pharma and big food is extremely high.

• 1:56:47Speaker 01

  Well, that's why I want RFK to do what he's doing.

• 1:56:50Jesse Michels?

  I have the same. Well, I think the FDA like, you know, governs both food and drugs. And on the food side, it's extremely laissez faire and loose. And so like you have all these like chemicals that are allowed in our food, things like glyphosate, you know, which are probably autoimmune or cancer causing. They're like glyphosate is very close to Agent Orange. It's just horrible for you. And we have all these things that are allowed in the US that are banned in Europe. And then so on that side, on the food side, we're very laissez faire. And then on the drug side, once people get extremely sick and the big pharma companies are profiting off of, you know, these biochemical solutions for, you know, whatever their ailments are.

• 1:57:30Jesse Michels?

  It's extremely hard to get new drug innovation or anything passed through the FDA. So like this side is then super strict. When you should be throwing the hail Mary because you're already really sick, the restrictions should be very wide. It should actually be like, let's try electromagnetic, whatever, you know, interferes. Cause you know, sound healing, whatever. But then, so you can't pass anything by the FDA here and then here, everything goes to make you sick. So it's just completely perverse.

• 1:57:56Speaker 01

  Well, and that's the thing. So if they're working in hand in hand trying to make more. Patients, because guess what, a patient cured is a patient lost.

• 1:58:02Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, totally.

• 1:58:03Speaker 01

  They lose money off that, so of course, we're gonna keep people sick.

• 1:58:06Jesse Michels?

  Do you guys think more whistleblowers will come out and the consensus will shift on this topic? Because it feels like even shows, like podcasts, like, you know, Joe Rogan's, which traditionally have covered this stuff. I think when it was less, uh, sort of like, like, less activity was involved, and it was like easier to make sense of, because there were a few kind of hot-button stories that you either had, you know, an opinion on, or again, those like Bob Lazar or whatever. And now they're like, I think, extremely confused. They feel like the zone is being flooded and like, my basic understanding, based on the way he speaks on his podcast, is like, he's kind of like suspicious of like the whole...

• 1:58:44Speaker 01

  Well, he should, he should be. I'm not saying like, you know, every whistleblower's gotta be trusted. I mean, there's people out there trying to get rich. I get it. They're trying to find a livelihood. If so be it, you're gonna be found out.

• 1:58:53Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:54Speaker 01

  But at the same time, yes, be skeptical. What, the thing with it too is that these people really need to put egos aside. This is part of the reason why we have this problem. Everybody on Capitol Hill thinks they know what the fuck's going on because they're Senator so-and-so, or they're the President, or they're Secretary of Defense, or all this. You guys are removable pawns that are gonna have an expiration of your terms, and they're gonna go living your normal life, and some other person's gonna step into your point. They're gonna do the same thing you're doing. So it's really just interchangeable people. This is the reason why secrecy exists, because they would rather have people who are permanently involved stay at that level, instead of just having somebody interchanged. Right? Two or, two or three terms, you're out. Or, you know, as a President, you're not gonna know much, because you're gonna literally

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  just go out and do whatever you're gonna do after becoming the President.

• 1:59:40Jesse Michels?

  So who is, if there's this sort of shadow government vis-à-vis these UFO programs, who's the President of that? Or is it...

• 1:59:47Speaker 01

  Somebody that nobody knows.

• 1:59:49Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:59:49Speaker 01

  And it's somebody that has a hell of a bankroll that nobody could ever understand or imagine.

• 1:59:53Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:59:53Speaker 01

  And they probably, more than likely, do not live in this country. Because if they were smart, they'd be somewhere else.

• 1:59:57Jesse Michels?

  Do you have any...

• 1:59:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, but that's all it's about. We hypothesize somebody like Dick Cheney.

• 2:00:02Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, well, he but he would be.

• 2:00:04Speaker 04

  Top of the pyramid, not.

• 2:00:05Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, no, but Dick Cheney would be the representative of like something else.

• 2:00:10Speaker 01

  It's gonna be somebody that nobody knows that's never, nobody knows their face, nobody knows they even exist.

• 2:00:16Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 2:00:16Speaker 01

  It won't be a politician.

• 2:00:17Speaker 04

  I would wager that maybe 10 to 20 total people in the world have the full picture of you had a legacy program.

• 2:00:23Speaker 01

  And they got more funding than everybody they could ever imagine.

• 2:00:26Jesse Michels?

  I also understand the Joe Rogan orientation towards it because it's so, the whole, the UAP thing is so weird. You have on the one hand, like, you know, this sort of like Tim Taylor, NASA, like, like all this sort of like strange, you know, summoning stuff around, you know, UFO, or sorry, around rocketry, like in the history of rocketry. And then you have this other stuff of like, you know, aerospace, black aerospace, and like saucers and hangars, and like nuts and bolts, propulsion updates, that sort of thing. And, and then you have like, what are the NHI themselves, and like the ontology there, and kind of the metaphysical dimension of like Jacques Vallée and Diana Pasulka, and like what we're dealing with, and is it spiritual? And it's just extremely confusing.

• 2:01:07Speaker 01

  Yep. Well, and I mean, it, could it be intentionally provided this confused, you know, or to bring confusion? So, I mean, that's kind of where we have to kind of be very careful to navigate that.

• 2:01:20Speaker 01

  You only know what you're exposed to. And then again, whoever is exposed to something could be fed misinformation to say, hey, go ahead and say this. Thank God I didn't have that problem, you know? There was suspicion when Jake approached me that I was like, okay, maybe this might be the case. But then he's very, he's been very transparent about his role, you know, being a red team asset, pretty much, to try to bump whistleblowers and figure out who's got what and.

• 2:01:43Jesse Michels?

  And you are, you're sure, you know, I've, I've got pretty good impression from him in my interview, but you're sure he's not still, you know, red teaming? Like, I, there's this moment in my interview where I was like, how do we know you're not red teaming us right now?

• 2:01:56Jesse Michels?

  Well, you don't. You don't know that. I'm, you really don't.

• 2:01:59Jesse Michels?

  That was an honest answer.

• 2:02:00Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, you don't know that. So I, and all I can do, I expect to get asked that a lot, is like, you know, I'll paraphrase a book from Matthew, I think.

• 2:02:11Speaker 01

  It is like you will know me by my fruits. Well, and there's what does he really have to benefit from red teaming if he's public?

• 2:02:20Speaker 01

  He's out there. I mean, and not only that, but he.

• 2:02:23Jesse Michels?

  Well, if I'm playing devil's advocate, it could be, you know, controlled opposition or, you know.

• 2:02:28Speaker 01

  For what though?

• 2:02:29Jesse Michels?

  I don't.

• 2:02:30Speaker 01

  Cause he's trying to prove the exit. Because he's trying to prove this. This is real. That's his whole thing. And he's helping. He's trying to get government institutions to help with that. Somebody's not gonna be in a disinformation campaign just to have government involved and then just to. You know, everybody's trying to prove it's real. So is Jake, which we all know it's real, but even the consensus of the planet. I think if everybody understood it was real, then they'd actually be the first hurdle they can get over.

• 2:02:55Jesse Michels?

  What do you guys think? And, you know, I think that's a very noble aim. What do you guys think is like the disclosure moment? Like, cause you think you, you would think that a guy saying I retrieved a UFO would be the disclosure moment. But that, you know, I think a lot of people like my, my video on this guy only has like a half a million views. And there are like 350 million people in this country and so, you know.

• 2:03:17Speaker 01

  And again, it depends on what side of the fence you sit on. Some people need disclosure to be something that they have to witness firsthand. Nothing wrong with that. There's some people that, yes, they can take tidbit information that I've provided to say, okay, yeah, reverse engineered this something. For me, that was disclosure.

• 2:03:33Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, if I saw that thing humming.

• 2:03:35Speaker 01

  That was.

• 2:03:36Jesse Michels?

  That'd be it. Yeah, yeah. I would have trouble keeping a day job. Like you have a, you know, a couple of businesses like I'd be like. I'd turn into a fiend like trying to figure out.

• 2:03:46Speaker 01

  Sometimes business gets fucking boring and then you're like, man, I wonder what's going on over here.

• 2:03:50Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:03:50Speaker 01

  Start trying to research into stuff.

• 2:03:52Jesse Michels?

  I'd spend my, the rest of my life trying to take a ride on that thing.

• 2:03:55Speaker 01

  I mean, if that ever happens, I'll be like, Jesse.

• 2:03:59Jesse Michels?

  Hit me up.

• 2:04:00Speaker 01

  Don't say anything, but let's meet me at this point.

• 2:04:04Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, it's it's up in the air what our future holds.

• 2:04:07Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:08Speaker 01

  It's it's up to us to create the future.

• 2:04:10Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:10Speaker 01

  That's really what it is. Do we want to continue living on the past? Going the same kind of habits and rituals that people do? Or do we actually want to evolve and actually be a better person at the end of the day? And help change the world? Disclosure is going to help change the world. And hopefully for the better and not something that's going to be taken astray and weaponized somehow like it already has been.

• 2:04:30Jesse Michels?

  Yep, yep. Is there something about? So it's the people with psionic assets when Jake even said this on my show where it's like, you know, their diets, their sense of community, they're being tapped into sort of, you know, they don't live in this kind of materialist reductionist framework where like this stuff is actually more kind of second nature to them.

• 2:04:49Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:04:50Jesse Michels?

  Is there something about the land itself? Like you think about places like, um, you know, Skinwalker Ranch, Tacoma, Washington, Sedona, people just report like weird stuff.

• 2:05:00Speaker 01

  Well, some of the some of the first CE5 stuff I've I've seen was in Sedona with Greer's team. We were with Demi Lovato.

• 2:05:08Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 2:05:08Speaker 01

  And her her.

• 2:05:10Jesse Michels?

  That's an absurd sentence.

• 2:05:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I get I get.

• 2:05:13Jesse Michels?

  We were with Demi Lovato and Stephen Greer.

• 2:05:15Speaker 01

  She was cool to me, you know, she was cool to me, but you know, she's she's had her troubles, just like we all have, so you can't really hold her accountable for that. That's her own thing. But, you know, it was it was cool to to talk to her and and see what she's she believes on this subject, you know, and this this reaches everybody, you know what I mean? So it's all walks of life coming up to a certain point to understand that we're acknowledging something greater than ourselves. You know, so

• 2:05:42Speaker 01

  seeing the stuff that happened out there was pretty wild.

• 2:05:45Jesse Michels?

  What did happen out there with?

• 2:05:47Speaker 01

  With salt orbs.

• 2:05:48Jesse Michels?

  Stephen Greer.

• 2:05:49Speaker 01

  So we we went to this, I'm not going to name it because, you know, just in case she ever goes back here or when people trying to like.

• 2:05:55Jesse Michels?

  Sure.

• 2:05:56Speaker 01

  You know, I'm from what I understand, she comes here routinely.

• 2:05:58Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 2:05:59Speaker 01

  But it was a it was a cool place in Sedona and so we end up setting up a circle in two different parts. One was off grid, one was at this place. And so the first night we were there in in this off grid place just off of a trail road. Nobody knew we were the fuck out there and there was just like two o'clock in the fucking morning, right? So I'm sitting there fucking falling asleep.

• 2:06:22Speaker 01

  You know, and I'm having to, you know, drive everybody and at least, you know, unless Greer was doing that, but most of the time I was driving us. So.

• 2:06:31Speaker 01

  We're sitting there and the way that we are seated is everybody has a part of the sky that they're looking at or the surrounding area. So where I'm facing, I see Greer, Demi's friend is over here, Demi's like right here, Paula, she's somebody in the UFO field or something, she's some author, I can't remember her name, Paula Harris.

• 2:06:54Jesse Michels?

  Paula Harris, she writes a Trinity book with Jacques Vallée, Italian.

• 2:06:58Speaker 01

  She was there too. She's a good lady, she actually lives where, kind of close to where we live.

• 2:07:02Jesse Michels?

  Cool.

• 2:07:05Speaker 01

  She was there, Demi's fiance was there, and then Demi's good friend was there, and then Demi's mom was there, who's very sweet and very cool, she's very short, but she's a good lady, both of, you know, so, we're sitting there, we're seeing orbs, we're seeing, you know, disc shaped craft appear in and out.

• 2:07:21Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 2:07:22Speaker 01

  Gold color.

• 2:07:23Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:07:23Speaker 01

  And then, I don't know what the hell this was, so I was sitting there, and then, you know, obviously, we're way apart from each other.

• 2:07:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:32Speaker 01

  Something just fucking slaps me on the side of the, on my side, very hard. It wasn't a fucking animal, it wasn't any of them, because I'm like observing everything, and they're saying shit's happening behind me, and I'm like, okay, well, I can't see, but then I'm trying to stay over here to see if there's anything coming on over here, and something hit me really hard on the side.

• 2:07:52Jesse Michels?

  And you don't know what it was?

• 2:07:53Speaker 01

  I don't know what the fuck it was.

• 2:07:54Jesse Michels?

  And was it, did it correlate with a UFO sighting?

• 2:07:57Speaker 01

  I don't, yeah, they were saying that there was stuff was behind me and shit, but then all of a sudden, something just, like, hard.

• 2:08:03Jesse Michels?

  They were saying stuff was behind you, like, what was behind you?

• 2:08:06Speaker 01

  Orbs, shapes, blue and white color, stuff like that.

• 2:08:10Jesse Michels?

  And you just felt something knock?

• 2:08:11Speaker 01

  I just felt something literally just like this, like harder than that, on my side, and it fucking jumped, I'm like, what the fuck was that?

• 2:08:17Jesse Michels?

  Holy shit.

• 2:08:18Speaker 01

  So I don't know what it was.

• 2:08:19Jesse Michels?

  What do you, what do you say to the people that say Greer is like, I don't know, holographically, like displaying stuff?

• 2:08:25Speaker 01

  Oh, if, if that's the case, sign the fuck up and pay the money, because this guy, I mean, he... This is what he dedicates his life to. He gave up his medical career to do this kind of stuff. So yes, does he need to have provide a living? I'm pretty sure everybody watching the show, if they're interested in UFOs, they're not going to do it for free when they got bills to pay and the families to pay.

• 2:08:44Jesse Michels?

  But is he, is he faking any of these?

• 2:08:46Speaker 01

  He is not faking this shit at all.

• 2:08:47Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 2:08:48Speaker 01

  There's people say, oh, you know how many op-eds are against Greer?

• 2:08:51Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:52Speaker 01

  Publicly to, you know, say that this stuff isn't real? That are a part of these programs trying to say it's not?

• 2:08:56Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, interesting. Would any other final things or what do you want to add?

• 2:09:02Speaker 01

  Well, you know, and it's just, you know, I want people to keep an open mind, but I want people to understand that. You know, yeah, whatever side of the field you're going to be on, just understand that we're trying to get something done here. And it's going to happen with or without everybody.

• 2:09:15Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:09:15Speaker 01

  If they want to help and support, great. If not, stay the fuck out of our way. We'll handle it ourselves like we've been doing.

• 2:09:21Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm. Anything?

• 2:09:24Speaker 04

  I don't think so.

• 2:09:25Jesse Michels?

  Okay. Michael, this is an honor, man. I appreciate you taking the time. This is a blast.

• 2:09:48Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.