362 The Art of Masculinity with Chris Lee

"Men don't realize that the key to their success and their power is their heart." - Chris Lee If you enjoyed this podcast, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/362 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 362 with transformational coach Chris Lee.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone back to another special incredible edition of the School of Greatness podcast. We've got our resident coach and expert back on the show, Chris Lee, my good friend, my coach, and an incredible human being who's been doing transformational leadership training for the last 28 years. And we dive in on a topic that Chris has never talked about, something I've never really talked about, inside of masculinity today, inside of this topic. And Chris reveals some things that he's never shared publicly. And also, we cover a lot of main things about this topic. You know, a lot of you know, I'm doing research for a new book about masculinity,

• 1:14Lewis Howes?

  and the things that hold men back, and how women are affecting this as well, and what women are doing to support men and hold men back as well. So we dive in about this topic. It gets pretty interesting at a few moments. Some of the key things we talk about are what are some of the ways for a woman to get her man, or any man in her life, to open up, whether it be a boyfriend, or a husband, a brother, a son, a father, a friend, how to get any of their close male friends to open up. Also, we cover the differences in masculinity for straight men and gay men.

• 1:53Lewis Howes?

  We also talk about where men's power actually comes from, and how men can create more power in this process. Why it's so hard for men to say two simple words, "I'm sorry," and why men in our society

• 2:10Lewis Howes?

  Die earlier than women. We cover a lot of this and so much more, but it's something that I'm fascinated by with and really diving in deep to understand this topic. Because I think it's now more than ever, it's a touchy subject. It's something that is not very clear for a lot of people. It's a little messy. So I thought we'd bring in someone who's been dealing with a lot of ranges of men and women, working in five day workshops, very intense, learning about and understanding why people have fears, why people have walls, barriers, masks that they live behind that hold them back from their greatness. Because this is really what keeps us from living our most authentic, true life and living in love in order to move past fear.

• 2:54Lewis Howes?

  So I think you guys are going to get a lot out of this. Make sure to share this out with your friends, lewishouse.com/362. Send a tweet to me right now, at Lewis Howes and at Chris Motivador on Twitter. And let us know what you think while you're listening to this episode. Let us know the biggest takeaway you got from this also. I think this is going to be a topic that a lot of people share and talk about. Some of Chris's episodes are some of the most downloaded interviews that we have. So I hope you guys enjoy this one and thanks for continually asking him to come back because we have a lot of topics we want to cover. But this one is something I'm super excited and passionate about right now.

• 3:34Lewis Howes?

  So without further ado, let me bring back on the show, the one, the only Chris Lee.

• 3:44Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness Podcast. We've got my dear friend and resident podcast guest on the house, Chris Lee. Thanks for being here.

• 3:54Chris Lee?

  Thank you. It's an honor to be here.

• 3:55Lewis Howes?

  This is number eight. We just found out.

• 3:58Chris Lee?

  We were trying to figure it out.

• 3:59Lewis Howes?

  We both guessed wrong. I said six, you said 10 or something. You have been on here 11 times.

• 4:06Chris Lee?

  Right.

• 4:06Lewis Howes?

  This will be number 11 actually with two five minute Fridays. And a repeat episode when your book came out, which if you guys don't have his book, make sure to pick it up. It's called Transform Your Life. Ten Principles. Ten Principles of Abundance and Prosperity, which was born from an episode that we did here called Ten Principles of Abundance and Prosperity. But I wrote the foreword to it. It's incredible book. Go pick it up. We'll have it linked up here at the end of the show notes. Chris Lee is in town for a few days. We had lunch today and I said, we gotta do a podcast because I'm writing a new book about masculinity. And this is a topic that you essentially brought out of me to be a more vulnerable, loving, passionate, wise man.

• 4:45Lewis Howes?

  And when I had a lot of love and joy already, but I was also living in a lot of pain, anger, frustration, hurt, resentment, bitterness, competition, and always having to one up people and having to win in life, relationships, personal intimate business, family, friendships. And I realized that in my entire life, I was suffering inside. I was very alone inside. Because I was so driven to achieve and be, and prove everyone wrong, but in doing so, I was always alone. And I would achieve and achieve and I would feel lonely and unfulfilled at the end. So when you shifted out of me, when I did the workshop with you and you shifted out of me,

• 5:25Lewis Howes?

  what it means to be a loving, vulnerable masculine man and how being loving and vulnerable doesn't mean being weak or being less than or being, you know, still not winning in your competition, but actually thriving and connecting and being a true leader and, and rising all the shifts around you. It really shifted everything in my life in terms of relationships, business, everything. So first, thanks for bringing it out of me and bringing the awareness to me because I think that's the first step is being aware if we are hurting ourselves or what's holding us back from our greatness or from achieving whatever it is we want in life.

• 6:07Lewis Howes?

  And then second, you gave me a lot of tools to use on how to be more loving and vulnerable. And I think that's the challenge. People aren't aware. Their ego is in the way, at least mine was. Let's speak of my existence. Ego is in the way. And then we don't have the tools on how to communicate our feelings, our needs, our thoughts, things like that. So I want to talk about the topic of masculinity because I think this is fascinating because you've been training people for 28 years on emotional intelligence, leadership.

• 6:36Lewis Howes?

  And really understanding ourselves, being aware. So you've had so much experience. You've seen every type of human being, every type of race, every type of religion, every age, you've trained them all, right? Is there a character type that you have not trained?

• 6:51Chris Lee?

  I can't think of anything.

• 6:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:53Chris Lee?

  Or any or any type. And what you're referring to are the walls that we build.

• 7:00Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 7:00Chris Lee?

  Because all you could you could have a loving environment and you could have success and you could have all of the trappings of life. But if you walk around with a chip on your shoulder and you're walking around with an anchor that you're carrying with you and you've got these walls around you. Then you'll never be fulfilled. You'll never be happy and you'll never be effective. And then what ends up happening is you start projecting that. And what we have is we've got pictures of what a man should be. Pictures of what it means to be powerful. Pictures of what it means to be successful.

• 7:37Chris Lee?

  And we have these images and these pictures and we've got this criteria that we learned from our parents, our dads, the men in our lives. Action heroes, uh, media, et cetera, et cetera. But it's not a realistic picture because it's not authentic.

• 7:54Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. And for me, growing up, you know, I grew up with this, the same experience with my dad or my older brother and also in sports. It's really common to hear certain language about, don't be a wuss, don't be a girl, don't be this, don't be that, don't be a fag, don't be all these things.

• 8:12Chris Lee?

  Mm hmm. There's no crying in baseball.

• 8:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, you know.

• 8:16Chris Lee?

  There's all these beliefs.

• 8:17Lewis Howes?

  All these things. And so we're taught to not show emotions, at least I was.

• 8:21Chris Lee?

  Right. Hide your feelings.

• 8:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, hide your feelings. Um, you know, don't show pain, don't show any of these things. And also, as a man growing up, I don't know if you experienced this, but as a man growing up, um. You know, it was always talked about was kind of conquering women. It was like. What happened last night? You know, did you hook up with the girl or did you meet the girl? What happened is always like, people wanted to know. And it was like, cool if you're able to conquer the woman or get the girl or however, you know, however you did. And so it was kind of like, um, you know, you had a game and you're, you're always playing game in every area of your life as a man to like, one up and show people that you were better than, or that you were worthy of the masculinity that you're wearing or something.

• 9:03Lewis Howes?

  And, um, so I want to talk about this, you know, and the reason why I think you're the perfect person to talk about. And I don't think you really talk about this publicly. You talk about it in your workshops every now and then, but you're not public about this, but you're gay. And you've experienced, you know, a lot of different things growing up, especially, uh, you're 50, well, you look 30, but you're 50, but you experienced 51. And you, but you grew up in a time where it really wasn't accepted, like more it is now, right? I mean, it's a lot more accepted now. It's a lot more open.

• 9:32Chris Lee?

  Not only did I grow up, not only did I grow up in a time where it wasn't accepted, I grew up in a culture that it wasn't accepted.

• 9:38Lewis Howes?

  Puerto Rico.

• 9:39Chris Lee?

  Cause I grew up in Puerto Rico, which is el machismo.

• 9:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 9:42Chris Lee?

  You know, the macho, the Latin, you know, the gay was a sign of you were literally less than a human being.

• 9:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow, really?

• 9:49Chris Lee?

  And it was also a very religious country. So it was a lot of religious.

• 9:54Lewis Howes?

  Catholic mostly.

• 9:54Chris Lee?

  Catholic.

• 9:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:56Chris Lee?

  And, uh, you know, we were also Americans growing up in Puerto Rico. So I had, I had everything stacked up against me. To make me feel like what I was, was wrong and bad and less.

• 10:08Lewis Howes?

  So how did you, how did you deal with the masculinity issues or did you struggle with it or is it?

• 10:13Chris Lee?

  Well, I basically put on an act.

• 10:16Lewis Howes?

  What was that?

• 10:17Chris Lee?

  An act? Well, I think we all do.

• 10:18Lewis Howes?

  Right. What was your act?

• 10:19Chris Lee?

  I put on my mask.

• 10:21Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 10:21Chris Lee?

  And my mask was that, uh, I don't need anybody and I could do it alone. And I became the entertainer. So my way of getting, uh, by was by being likeable and entertaining and sociable and, you know, I put on this giant lie and I had girlfriends and I played sports and it was all a lie.

• 10:45Lewis Howes?

  When did you know that you were gay?

• 10:46Chris Lee?

  When I was nine years old.

• 10:50Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 10:51Chris Lee?

  That I was more attracted to the boys in the class. Than the girls in the class.

• 10:55Lewis Howes?

  But you had girlfriends all through high school or college or?

• 10:57Chris Lee?

  I had girlfriends through high school.

• 10:59Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha. So you put on the mask.

• 11:01Chris Lee?

  And I, and I had a, like a, a hidden life because there was like a gay bar that I would go to.

• 11:06Lewis Howes?

  When you were ten?

• 11:07Chris Lee?

  No, high school.

• 11:08Lewis Howes?

  Okay, gotcha.

• 11:09Chris Lee?

  We're in high school now.

• 11:09Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha. Sixteen, seventeen.

• 11:11Chris Lee?

  When I was sixteen, seventeen, you know, there's a, a club and I had an, uh, like not an uncle, but a friend of the family that was gay.

• 11:17Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 11:17Chris Lee?

  And he would kinda introduce me to that whole world. Yeah. But it was all hidden.

• 11:21Lewis Howes?

  So you lived a double life. You put on a mask for the, you didn't show your authentic self to the, to the real world.

• 11:27Chris Lee?

  Right. Cause I thought it was wrong.

• 11:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, interesting.

• 11:29Chris Lee?

  And so my idea of masculinity, back to the topic, was don't show your emotions, don't show your feelings, don't express anything that reveals any kind of weakness.

• 11:42Lewis Howes?

  So when did you start being true and authentic or dropping the mask and saying, well, this is who I am and this is my definition of masculinity?

• 11:50Chris Lee?

  Well, like you, when I went through a series of processes where I had the opportunity to look in the mirror and see whose life I was living. Because what happens is that, and this is true gay, straight, whatever, we end up fulfilling other people's vision versus our own vision. Because when you look at little boys, little boys are feminine. A lot of little boys are very sweet and loving and caring. So they have a good mixture of their, they have a mixture of feminine and masculine, which is the authentic self. Little boys cry, little boys say, I love you, little boys will, they kiss, hug, they love the world, they share.

• 12:32Chris Lee?

  And so what happens is that based on the vision of the parents or society, we start putting kids into a little box. You're a boy, you're a girl. Girls should, boys should. And then we start making the feminine side to us wrong. And in women, and then for women, they make the masculine side wrong. And so we start living a life that is not authentic to ourselves. Until you go through a transformation or you go through a process of

• 13:03Lewis Howes?

  You bring awareness to the

• 13:04Chris Lee?

  waking up and some people never wake up. Some people end up living behind those walls. And what happens is that we create conflict because when you're not authentic and you're not in integrity with who you authentically are, you don't, you can't create relationship. And we all know, based on the work we've done and the studies we've done, that the key to success is relationships. Your ability to connect with people, your ability to connect to people's hearts is, is what builds relationships. Key to success relationship. But the key to relationship is authenticity. And if I'm not authentic with you, then I'm never in a relationship with you.

• 13:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:47Chris Lee?

  And if I'm living behind walls, which is what I do in trainings, I crack people's walls.

• 13:51Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 13:52Chris Lee?

  And you had your walls, I remember like it was yesterday. You know, this, I don't need anybody and I got it all figured out and you're in this proving it over and over competition. I need to be number one. I need to get to the top. And then you would bypass your feelings, your emotions and the authentic you. And the, and you, and what, as a result of that, by peeling off layers of all of the messages that we get from the people that we surround ourselves with, whether it's coaches, parents, friends, et cetera, et cetera. When you start deciphering what's real, what's the authentic me, what's the inauthentic me?

• 14:33Chris Lee?

  Then emerges from that, what emerges like a phoenix from the ashes is the unstoppable powerful you. Which is vulnerable and open and loving and authentic.

• 14:45Lewis Howes?

  So were you in your early twenties then, when you started to be, oh, you know, open and aware and fully expressing who you were?

• 14:51Chris Lee?

  Completely open and aware and, and dropping the mask. And the other thing is, You know, like you said, I was gay, but I don't label myself, you know, I just happen to be a man.

• 15:01Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:02Chris Lee?

  That I'm attracted to men.

• 15:03Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 15:03Chris Lee?

  I'm also attracted to women, but not in the same way.

• 15:06Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:06Chris Lee?

  I love women. I think women are beautiful. But I have my, my take on my sexuality is that that's just a piece of who I am. It's not who I am.

• 15:16Lewis Howes?

  Right, to define you.

• 15:17Chris Lee?

  You know, I'm a human being that I just love people.

• 15:20Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:20Chris Lee?

  And my, my mission is to make a difference in people's lives. And, you know, I, I like vanilla ice cream. You like chocolate.

• 15:27Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:27Chris Lee?

  That's, to me, that's, it's that simple.

• 15:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I actually like mint chip pretty good.

• 15:31Chris Lee?

  You like mint, I, so do I. I knew it. Yeah, that's great. So I like mint chocolate chip too. But, um, anyway, so, so as I, as we tear off the layers of our inauthentic selves, we are able to extract that diamond, that masterpiece. And I think that that's everyone's journey.

• 15:49Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 15:50Chris Lee?

  And those of you listening to us right now, you want to be thinking about what are those walls that you have that surround the authentic you? And what, whose, whose life are you living? Are you living someone else's life, someone else's definition?

• 16:02Lewis Howes?

  Someone else's message. Okay, so you've done 28 years of transformational work. I'm curious, what is the biggest or, the biggest issue or issues that all the male, the men that you go through in the work with? That you coach, you teach, and you go through these experiences with?

• 16:16Chris Lee?

  What you're saying, what you're saying, the key issue for men is they, men don't realize that the key to their success and the key to their power is their heart. When men access their vulnerability and their heart, because they don't need to work on being strong.

• 16:34Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:35Chris Lee?

  They don't need to work on being powerful. They don't need to, most men don't go to my trainings. I need to be more assertive. I mean, I need to be more alpha.

• 16:45Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:46Chris Lee?

  Men, a lot, most, some need that, very few, you're asking me, the question you're asking me is what, what is the biggest thing? I'm not saying that some don't, but most men. What they go to the, to do work for and what they invest time and energy and money for is to access their ability to understand their feelings, their ability to navigate through their emotions, their ability to understand other people's feelings and emotions and their ability to access their heart, which is their femininity, which is their vulnerability. And what I have found and what, you know, and, and there's studies that back this up,

• 17:23Chris Lee?

  that men become more effective in every aspect of their life when they access their heart.

• 17:32Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 17:33Chris Lee?

  You see it in politicians and when you think, when you see a politician that is moving an audience, they go right for the heart. When you see an actor or an actress moving an audience, it's through the heart. So I think that the key, the key to, to the power that we have as human beings is accessing our heart, our vulnerability, and men have made that wrong.

• 17:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you know, something you told me a couple of years ago before I went on stage for a speech. It might've been a year ago, a year and a half ago. I called you up and was like, you know, I'm not sure what to really land in this speech. I was actually revealing about my sexual abuse experience for the first time on stage publicly. This is about a year ago, actually. And I remember you saying, you know, we're, men in general are so driven to make money and be the wealthiest in the world, or so driven to achieve financial results. That's one of our masks to show that we are worthy. It's like the more money we have, the more worthy. And you said, you know, so many of us strive to be the king of diamonds, but really, if you want to be wealthy forever, you'll be the king of hearts, king or queen of hearts. And I was like, wow, that's really powerful. And I've been saying that a lot more recently.

• 18:38Chris Lee?

  Yeah, I remember saying that too.

• 18:40Lewis Howes?

  And I've been saying it a lot and people are just like, man, that, that resonates with me so much. So many people are driven by money. And listen, I'm, you know, I want to build a business and a financial empire myself.

• 18:51Chris Lee?

  Nothing wrong with having it all, nothing wrong with being abundant and prosperous.

• 18:55Lewis Howes?

  But when it puts our worth on how much we make or that's always.

• 18:59Chris Lee?

  But at the end of, but yet, but at the end of the day, Lewis, and everyone listening. You don't take any of that with you to the grave.

• 19:07Lewis Howes?

  You can't go to the bank every day to this.

• 19:09Chris Lee?

  The other thing I want to say is everything you own, you're borrowing it. I know it's, it sounds scary, but everything we have and everything we own is borrowed. Because when you die, it's not yours anymore and you're gonna die. And so my message about being the king of hearts is that if you are the king of hearts, that's a legacy that never dies. Because that generosity and that love and that giving that you as a man are able to pass on, lives on forever. And think about it, what are people gonna remember more? That he was rich and famous and had a lot of money or that he was generous?

• 19:54Lewis Howes?

  Generosity.

• 19:55Chris Lee?

  Yeah, that he was generous, that she was generous.

• 19:57Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely. Okay, so I'm curious of all the different, of these masks that I'll talk about. Is there a specific mask that you've seen more of from men over the last 28 years? Either in the training or in life, outside of the trainings? The need to be stoic, perfect, invincible, a stud, a champion, or breadwinner? Which one do you feel like is, you feel like they're kind of equal? Do you see some as more people want to be one way than the other? What's your, what's your feel? What's the main mask you see that men wear?

• 20:30Chris Lee?

  I don't think it's even on that list. It's they need to look good. What will people think of me? How will I appear to others? So that might be stoic. That might fall into the stoic.

• 20:41Lewis Howes?

  Or looking perfect all the time.

• 20:42Chris Lee?

  Yeah, like men, like they don't, you know, don't ever let them see you sweat.

• 20:48Lewis Howes?

  Sweat, don't let them see you cry.

• 20:49Chris Lee?

  Right, don't ever let them see you sweat. Don't let them ever see you cry. Never show vulnerability.

• 20:54Lewis Howes?

  Don't show that you're hurt.

• 20:55Chris Lee?

  A lot of men have a hard time saying these words. I'm sorry.

• 20:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:00Chris Lee?

  I was wrong.

• 21:01Lewis Howes?

  Why is it so hard for so many?

• 21:03Chris Lee?

  Because it's.

• 21:03Lewis Howes?

  So many people in general.

• 21:04Chris Lee?

  Because it's our ego.

• 21:07Chris Lee?

  And men are more attached to their ego, their pride than than women. They're one of the things, one of the biggest masks that we have is that is looking good, being right, being control. I call it the Fred Flintstone syndrome. Those of you that are too young to know what the Flintstones are. The Flintstones had this lead, you know, character cartoon named Fred Flintstone, who was always right. And even if his friend Barney came up with an idea, it was Fred's idea. It's like the honeymoon Ralph. You know, um, so I think that that's one of the, one of the key masks that that we have as men

• 21:46Chris Lee?

  is that we attach our self-worth by how we look and by what we have. How we look.

• 21:55Lewis Howes?

  How much we have.

• 21:55Chris Lee?

  What we have. How much we have versus who we are.

• 22:02Chris Lee?

  So like to use a quote from Martin Luther King Jr., we uh, measure a man by the color of his skin, by what he has, by his accomplishments, by anything that he has, you know, produced in terms of a result, but not the content of his character. And he, Martin Luther King Jr. said, I want to be measured when I'm gone by the content of my character, not the color of my skin. So even he was showing vulnerability and authenticity. I don't want to be remembered by like a man who won all the Nobel Peace Prize and someone who has all these awards. I want to be remembered, this is from a speech that he that he's uh, made.

• 22:45Chris Lee?

  I want to be remembered by as someone who wanted to make a difference and he did.

• 22:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, well, do you struggle today at all with masculinity or any issues around masculinity? And if so, how do you deal with that process?

• 23:02Chris Lee?

  I really don't because I don't, I don't subscribe to anybody else's belief. So it's not, it's not, I, I've worked through it, but I do notice that people get uncomfortable by my vulnerability sometimes.

• 23:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, cuz you could be very vulnerable.

• 23:21Chris Lee?

  Yeah.

• 23:21Lewis Howes?

  You can go there like instantly.

• 23:23Chris Lee?

  Like, like even you, like I, I, I need to out you. Like I'll look at you and I, and there's times I'm like, I love you and I'll cry and you're like, uh, you know.

• 23:33Lewis Howes?

  This is way too vulnerable.

• 23:35Chris Lee?

  You know, you know what I'm talking about.

• 23:36Lewis Howes?

  Sometimes I'm there with you and sometimes I'm like.

• 23:39Chris Lee?

  It's a lot.

• 23:39Lewis Howes?

  It's intense.

• 23:40Chris Lee?

  It's a lot. But the people I, because the people in my life, I, that I love and that, you know, you're not just a student or a client or.

• 23:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:49Chris Lee?

  You're somebody that you're a part of my life forever and you know that.

• 23:52Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 23:53Chris Lee?

  And so the, I'm, I'm always very conscious that I could be dead in the next airplane.

• 24:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:00Chris Lee?

  You know, and I don't wanna, I don't wanna leave this earth without being vulnerable. And without people knowing the day I die, you know, most likely you'll be there at the funeral remembering this conversation.

• 24:13Lewis Howes?

  Of course, yeah.

• 24:13Chris Lee?

  Or I'll be at yours remembering this conversation, depending on, you know, if I'm pushing you in the wheelchair when you're older. You're pushing me. But the point is, back to vulnerability, um, I don't have an issue being vulnerable, but I do notice that some people have, you know, challenges with my vulnerability.

• 24:31Lewis Howes?

  Others do.

• 24:32Chris Lee?

  Yeah, but, but at the end of the day, it wakes up their own.

• 24:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, but you're not trying to make them wrong for not being as vulnerable as you.

• 24:39Chris Lee?

  No, no, no, no, no, not at all.

• 24:41Lewis Howes?

  So quit being so masculine or something, right?

• 24:42Chris Lee?

  Not at all, not at all.

• 24:44Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting, I did an interview the other day with a guy named Steve Cook, who's a big fitness personality, super strong, big guy, got over a million followers. And I asked him, I go, what's your definition of masculinity? Because he's kind of in this bro scene, which very like jockey community, it's like.

• 24:58Chris Lee?

  Fist pump in the air.

• 24:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's all like 22 year olds, just like, let's get big, bro, you know, it's like.

• 25:03Chris Lee?

  Right, right, right, bromance.

• 25:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. And I said, what's your definition? And he said. To put others first or to be in service or something along those lines was like masculinity is putting others first and being in service. And I was like, that's such a beautiful.

• 25:16Chris Lee?

  That's a beautiful.

• 25:17Lewis Howes?

  Beautiful definition.

• 25:18Chris Lee?

  Right.

• 25:18Lewis Howes?

  Cause he grew up thinking, you know, that Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone were like masculine guys. They were like big and strong and like saved the girl or whatever. But really it was like putting others needs, being there for others. And I was like, that's a powerful way of thinking about a true definition of masculinity.

• 25:34Chris Lee?

  Well, to me it's humility, you know, like, like the, the, the, the man that is the most humble is the most masculine to me because humility is about, not about bending or lowering yourself to the world. To me humility is about lifting others up. So it's not like I don't need to be a martyr or a doormat to show that I'm humble. Humility is I'm a proud human being. I'm powerful, but my mission is to lift others up.

• 26:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:04Chris Lee?

  And to me, that's what true masculinity is. Now, how have you, how has masculinity changed over your lifetime? How is the definition or has it stayed the same since you were younger? No, it is shifted because.

• 26:20Lewis Howes?

  And how has it evolved with women being more masculine now in the workforce and in relationships?

• 26:26Chris Lee?

  Well, the roles are shifting. A lot of women are the breadwinners. A lot of women are making more money than the men. A lot of men are taking on roles at home that traditionally you never saw before. There's a lot of stay at home, you know, dads that are, you know, that they're the ones who take care of the kids while the, you know, while the, the wife or the girlfriend gets a degree or gets work or goes to work. There's a lot of shifting in that. And I think that that, that the world is becoming more open to men's vulnerability. I even saw ads in, this is interesting that we're even talking about this. I love it. I think it's an important topic and an important conversation to have. I was in Bogota, Colombia,

• 27:09Chris Lee?

  and I saw an ad about what a true man is. And it shows a man tearing up a wall, like tearing down a wall. And then it gives people the option is that that man, the one that could bust through a wall. And then it shows a man holding his newborn son and crying.

• 27:30Chris Lee?

  And then it says, which one's more macho? And then, of course, they give the answer and it's the man holding his son. Because it takes being macho to be vulnerable and to be open and to be loving. And it was such a powerful message that the world is saturated with aggressiveness and guns and violence and all of this pollution.

• 27:57Lewis Howes?

  Segregation.

• 27:58Chris Lee?

  Yeah. And separation and discrimination and walls, et cetera, et cetera. And what the world needs, you know, is love and what the world needs is compassion. And I think that the roles have shifted. And the other thing is even how men dress, you know, the whole term metrosexual, you know, men now are more aware of there's more products.

• 28:17Lewis Howes?

  Take care of their hair more than women.

• 28:19Chris Lee?

  Look at the hair products for men, the skin products for men, you know, now you don't need to be gay to get a facial or a manicure or pedicure.

• 28:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, there's a, there's a man salon that I go to. It's not a barber shop anymore, it's a man salon.

• 28:34Chris Lee?

  It's a salon. And, uh, you know, men now dress very nicely and, you know, and all that. And so, so I think that my, you know, a lot of the diehard, old fashioned people have a big resentment against what's happening. You know, are, are, are men becoming, you know, less masculine because of this? And I say, no. I think that we live in a time where we can make choices and those choices need to be authentic. So whatever's authentic.

• 29:04Lewis Howes?

  How does a man, say someone, a man or a woman's listening now where they realize, well, I, uh, you know, maybe there's some things in my life that I've been wearing a mask and I haven't been as real or as authentic or vulnerable, whatever it may be with people in my life. Now I'm aware, now I'm aware, but I don't know what to do. How do I actually drop it and really like step into it? It's terrifying to me. I feel like I'm gonna get judged, I'm gonna get shamed, I'm gonna feel whatever. People are going to laugh at me or make fun of me if I am vulnerable or talk about feelings or any of these things. What's something, an exercise, an example, something that someone could do to drop the mask for the man?

• 29:46Lewis Howes?

  And if they're a woman, what's something they could do to have a conversation with a man, a brother, father, boyfriend, husband?

• 29:55Lewis Howes?

  That maybe is wearing these masks and hasn't been able to break through to them. What's a conversation that's disarming that can open up the awareness to move the man forward? So that's two long questions there, but if you're a man listening, what's something a man could do to move forward? An exercise or something for them to practice, because it's a muscle, you've got to work at it. You know, it's not just like I'm vulnerable all of a sudden and I'm open and I'm not defensive. And I'm not going to try to win and attack, you know, it's like, uh, I think it takes some time to evolve into that. But what's a man could do and then what could a woman do?

• 30:28Chris Lee?

  Well, there's a couple of things a man can do. Um, I think that number one is identify what are the beliefs that we have surrounding certain things? Like if I'm open, what does that mean? If I'm vulnerable, what does that mean? If I share my feelings, what does that mean? The reason why we don't do or we do is based on a belief structure. Our belief structure is a GPS system that we use, the same way you listen to Siri or you listen to, you follow Google Maps or Waze. Those are GPS systems that navigate you through the world in terms of going from point A to point B. As human beings, in terms of masculinity, in terms of what it means to be a man, what it means to be a woman,

• 31:11Chris Lee?

  what it means to be vulnerable, we are also serving a GPS system. And that GPS system is something that we need to investigate. And one of the ways to investigate is journaling. I think journaling is very powerful. We don't do it enough. We don't even write anymore. We type. I mean, really like get out a notebook and just write. You know, what are my beliefs about being open? Well, how do I feel or what's my fear about sharing my feelings, my emotions? And look over those beliefs and ask yourself which one of those beliefs are facts.

• 31:45Lewis Howes?

  Can you give some example of beliefs?

• 31:47Chris Lee?

  A belief could be that if I'm open, I'll look weak. If I share my feelings, people will laugh. If I say I love you first, then that means that I'm, that I need to now marry that person. Uh, if I wear a color that's soft, then that means I'm gay. So those are all beliefs that surround thoughts.

• 32:10Chris Lee?

  Or choices. And then what you want to do is look at the beliefs and ask, this is like a journaling exercise, is ask yourself which one of those beliefs are absolute facts. And you'll realize that they're not facts, they're just interpretations. And so what I would invite people to do is to look for a positive interpretation to replace the negative one. So if I open up, I'll actually get closer to people. If I share my feelings, people won't laugh, they'll know me deeper. If X, then, you know, that's just one way, replace negative thoughts with positive thoughts. Negative interpretations with positive ones. Then I'll be more freed up to do it. Another thing I recommend is for men to role play.

• 32:56Chris Lee?

  Role playing is very, very valuable when you role play with somebody. You know what, I have a hard time expressing my feelings, you find someone that you're safe with, that you're comfortable with, kinda like I've been that for you. We've been in a dyad for a couple of years now.

• 33:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:10Chris Lee?

  A dyad means communication between two people. We've had dyads about everything.

• 33:15Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 33:16Chris Lee?

  But, you know, sometimes you'll run things by me and they might be uncomfortable and scary, but you know, once you get it out there, it becomes easier.

• 33:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:24Chris Lee?

  And so I think that men could actually start practicing, you know what, I have a hard time sharing my feelings, but I'm gonna trust you and this is how I feel about you. And this is what I'm feeling about this and this is, you know, and start practicing that vulnerability.

• 33:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I think a great way to start off is saying, you know, it's really hard for me to do X, Y, and Z.

• 33:44Chris Lee?

  Right.

• 33:45Lewis Howes?

  Say that first. And so you're letting the other person know, like, this is a challenging thing to open up, to talk about. And maybe ask for permission, you know, do I have permission to share how I'm feeling? It's, it's kinda weird for me or it's scary. But do I have permission to share openly without judgment or something in return, right?

• 34:02Chris Lee?

  And another thing that people could do is do things that are out of their comfort zone.

• 34:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:06Chris Lee?

  You know, start risking, you know, start, uh, you know, if adding a heart, a little couple of hearts to your text is like a risk for you, then add a couple of those emojis, you know?

• 34:16Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 34:17Chris Lee?

  If, um, you know? Taking somebody out on a date instead of, you know, this action-packed movie that you're used to going to see because it's so masculine, then why don't you go to a movie that your girlfriend wants to see?

• 34:31Lewis Howes?

  The rom-com.

• 34:31Chris Lee?

  You know, and actually cry at the movie. Give yourself permission to cry.

• 34:35Lewis Howes?

  Hey, go to a sports movie, I'll always cry. Rudy, I cry at the end every time.

• 34:39Chris Lee?

  I did too, I loved it. It was amazing. It was great, it was great.

• 34:43Lewis Howes?

  So, that's what a man can do, he can role-play, he can journal, he can talk about the different exercises there. What could a woman do when she is in a relationship with a guarded man, or a man that's constantly wearing a mask? Maybe it's around one issue, maybe he's amazing all the time, but he doesn't express his feelings, or he's...

• 34:59Chris Lee?

  That's interesting that you're asking that, because today I was talking to somebody who is dating another person who does not open up, does not share, but she's never had the courage to tell him. So that's number one.

• 35:13Lewis Howes?

  It's scary for a woman.

• 35:14Chris Lee?

  Be honest, and let your partner know how important it is for you, for them to open up. You know, women, you know, you're not mind readers. Men, women, though they appear psychic, they're not. You know, they need to know what's going on in your head. And most men are neanderthals in regards to feelings and emotions, especially in a relationship. You know, they are the missing link, you know, they have a hard time expressing how they feel because they think it's unimportant, but what's unim... just because it's unimportant to you doesn't mean it's not unimportant to the person that you're dating. So women can actually empower men to actually share, and if men have a hard time languaging something, women, you could give them suggestions.

• 36:00Lewis Howes?

  For example?

• 36:01Chris Lee?

  For example, you know, how do you feel about this relationship? Do you feel A, B? Give them multiple choice. A, you're committed, you're excited, you're in love, this is like what you've dreamt of. B, you know, you're in the, you know, getting to know me stage, and you know, you gotta give, you gotta give them simple stuff, simple baby steps, especially somebody who's not used to being open, not used to being vulnerable. But I think that with love and compassion and support, little by little, people will start breaking down those walls. And of course, something else that everyone can do is...

• 36:42Chris Lee?

  Hire a coach, participate in seminars, like the seminar that you did with me. You know, workshops are a great environment and you know, you could research, you know, leadership workshops. They're great environments to actually stop the press of your life, stop the, the stress and kind of evaluate where I am. And one of the things that you're going to be looking at are the walls that are between you and what's possible, especially in being vulnerable and reinventing masculinity. I think that it's, the issue's not masculinity. I think the issue is the definition of it.

• 37:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And what's your definition of it?

• 37:20Chris Lee?

  Being humble. Somebody who's masculine is someone who's humble and vulnerable and willing to share how they feel, willing to express their emotions, willing to show weakness, which doesn't necessarily mean that you are a weak person, but we all have strengths and weaknesses and, and someone who's vulnerable and humble and also the person who's willing to lift other people up.

• 37:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What are the similarities or differences, if they're already, about for masculinity stereotypes with a gay man versus a straight man, in your opinion?

• 37:55Chris Lee?

  I think that it depends. There's, there's different, there's different kinds of gay men. You know, there's different types, stereotypes, different, you know, there's masculine, there's feminine within the gay community. There's aggressive, there's passive, there's, uh, you know, there's different definitions within the gay community. And I think that men as well, there are men that are passive, there's men that are aggressive, there's men that are analytical, there's men. And I think that the, the biggest difference between straight men and gay men is that gay men have or feel that they have more permission and it's more accepted for them to be vulnerable.

• 38:40Chris Lee?

  And men are so afraid of being labeled gay. And that's something that I find fascinating. Because the viewpoint of gay is it makes you weak and makes you less of a man. And it's still that way.

• 38:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 38:54Chris Lee?

  You know, it's it's everywhere I go. When the topic comes up of gay and straight. Straight men make jokes, straight men. You know, make, you know, uh, innuendos. It's kind of like there's a fascination among straight people about the gay lifestyle. Because to some of them, it's so foreign. Or for some of them. There's another feeling or desire that's within them that they haven't exposed.

• 39:20Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. So they make fun of it or they try to put it down because they don't.

• 39:23Chris Lee?

  Right. There's a lot of people that are bisexual that don't act on it, that don't own it, that don't observe it.

• 39:29Lewis Howes?

  It's their own mask.

• 39:30Chris Lee?

  It's their own mask. And you notice that people are super like you, you're super comfortable. You know, you're heterosexual, you love women and you. You know, you're you're very aware of it. You have no intimidation. You know, our our relationship, you know, we could sleep in the same bed and we're totally cool with it.

• 39:46Lewis Howes?

  I live in the middle of like the gayest community in LA. I live in Boys Town, so I'm very comfortable.

• 39:51Chris Lee?

  And you're and when you get hit on, you don't freak out, you're like.

• 39:54Lewis Howes?

  Feel better, you know.

• 39:55Chris Lee?

  Like, thank you, great compliment. But that's also, uh, that's also a, uh. Um, a symbol of masculinity that you're so comfortable in your skin. You know, a lot of men aren't comfortable in their skin.

• 40:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Like I could walk in a gay club and feel completely fine.

• 40:12Chris Lee?

  Right.

• 40:12Lewis Howes?

  I mean, there's moments where I'm like, okay, I don't need someone.

• 40:15Chris Lee?

  Well, no, if someone's trying to influence you on something, that's that's disrespectful. You know.

• 40:20Lewis Howes?

  But I've come from my own skin and it's, you know, I think there was a time when I was younger where I probably wasn't as comfortable. You know, I was more ignorant to it or I felt like, because my teammates would say things about.

• 40:31Chris Lee?

  Right.

• 40:31Lewis Howes?

  The gay community or whatever, that was like, I had to say.

• 40:34Chris Lee?

  Or they would ride you, like they were in terms of, not literally, but they were, they would literally. They would make fun of somebody and they wouldn't give up, they wouldn't let up on.

• 40:43Lewis Howes?

  Hold on, they keep calling you names for months and months or whatever.

• 40:47Chris Lee?

  And what about and what about, uh, even heterosexual boys that tend to be a little more passive? And a little more feminine, what would they, what would those kids do to them?

• 40:57Lewis Howes?

  They call them gay or they bully them or whatever, yeah.

• 40:59Chris Lee?

  Yeah, a lot of you listening were probably called gay and were called, you know, weak and and whatever. Because you were more, you had, you know, softer and more vulnerable than than others. And of course, put that wall right up.

• 41:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:13Chris Lee?

  Which is why a lot of homophobic people are probably people that were bullied or abused or sexually abused or have fears of exploring their own sexuality.

• 41:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I know there are some that they get so big and strong, they become like machines in the weight room to defend themselves of that attack.

• 41:34Chris Lee?

  Right.

• 41:34Lewis Howes?

  Bullying or those name-calling, whatever. So a lot of people get big and strong for some type of defense, you know, so.

• 41:43Chris Lee?

  And a lot of people ask themselves, so what does being vulnerable and loving and kind and generous and humble have to do with success? My answer is everything.

• 41:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:52Chris Lee?

  You know, and I say that in the training, I think you remember that.

• 41:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 41:55Chris Lee?

  When I, you know, I put you in a situation where we're not going to reveal it because it's confidential and people need to go through their own process, but you did something that you would have never done before.

• 42:08Lewis Howes?

  Well, there's many things I did, I didn't have done before, but yes.

• 42:10Chris Lee?

  No, but in a specific situation.

• 42:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:13Chris Lee?

  Where you were able, where you were able to.

• 42:16Lewis Howes?

  It was unbelievable.

• 42:16Chris Lee?

  It was like a role play.

• 42:17Lewis Howes?

  It was unbelievable.

• 42:18Chris Lee?

  And it was beautiful and it was moving and it was uplifting and, you know, just.

• 42:23Lewis Howes?

  The whole room's in tears and.

• 42:24Chris Lee?

  Everyone's in tears and I was in tears and it was just, it was just beautiful.

• 42:29Lewis Howes?

  I would have never done that before.

• 42:30Chris Lee?

  Of course not.

• 42:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and.

• 42:32Chris Lee?

  And then, of course, that, and it wasn't about deact, it was about accessing vulnerability and openness and being loving.

• 42:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:41Chris Lee?

  And I want to make another point about this whole thing is, and I've been saying that lately a lot, it's possible to be loving, which is vulnerable and what we're talking about, feminine, and powerful.

• 42:52Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 42:53Chris Lee?

  You don't need to give up one for the other. And a lot of women think, well, you know, I can't, I can't be loving and powerful, I could only be loving and I give up the power. And my point of view is if you're just loving, then, you know, that, that shows up as weak. If you're just powerful, that shows up as aggressive.

• 43:12Lewis Howes?

  Or egotistical.

• 43:13Chris Lee?

  And selfish and abrasive. When you combine both, which is, you know, both energies, the vulnerability and the masculinity, the love and the power, then that's like an unstoppable combination.

• 43:26Lewis Howes?

  And it's a, it's a dance. It's an art. It's, you know, constantly evolving and growing and learning and it's a skill. You know, we've got to learn to develop this communication style of when to step into a more powerful role or a more loving, aware role. And it's not easy. It's definitely not easy. And that's why leaders are leaders because they can access that. They can access their understanding of every situation. They're aware. They're confident in themselves. They master different skills. And they can step into any type of role they need to in any situation.

• 43:58Chris Lee?

  And giving up what people think of me is a very important element of this. I'll give you an example. I was watching a movie on the airplane. And it was one of these movies that by, by the middle of it, I'm like, sobbing, crying. I'm having a moment. I'm having a moment.

• 44:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 44:19Chris Lee?

  And people around me were like, what, what is wrong with this guy? He's like,

• 44:25Chris Lee?

  I think it might've been, no, you know what it was? It was Eddie the Eagle.

• 44:30Lewis Howes?

  I didn't see it.

• 44:31Chris Lee?

  You didn't see Eddie the Eagle?

• 44:32Lewis Howes?

  Is this the downhill skiing one or whatever?

• 44:35Chris Lee?

  Yes. And, and he was bullied his whole life and he was like,

• 44:39Lewis Howes?

  He was like fly.

• 44:40Chris Lee?

  He was like the nerd and no one paid attention to him and he kept, you know, breaking his glasses and he kept.

• 44:45Lewis Howes?

  True story or no?

• 44:46Chris Lee?

  It's a true story.

• 44:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I never saw it.

• 44:48Chris Lee?

  It's a true story. And he qualified for the Olympics and everything, but the movie was so moving. It was like the underdog makes it.

• 44:55Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 44:56Chris Lee?

  And so I'm watching the movie. It's like Rudy and I'm watching the movie. It's like Seabiscuit.

• 45:03Chris Lee?

  I'm watching the movie and I'm having an attack. And a part of me almost went back to the old me like, and I even, I like, I stopped myself because I saw people looking at me and I went, you know what? That's no problem. I'm like sobbing. You know, and then this guy comes up to me and he goes, you must be watching Eddie the Eagle.

• 45:24Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 45:25Chris Lee?

  He goes, when I saw you cry, I know that you were watching that movie because I was crying, you know? It it it's like it validated his cry. Like it was okay to cry, like he felt guilty about crying, but when he saw me crying, he thought it was good.

• 45:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:41Chris Lee?

  But it's interesting how we are as men and how we do that.

• 45:43Lewis Howes?

  And I think of expressing our emotions, however we do it, if we don't express it either verbally or through tears or through physical exertion or whatever it is, if we hold in the emotion, the expression, we don't communicate it out in some way, it's gonna bottle up and hurt us in the long run.

• 45:59Chris Lee?

  Well, I say, I say.

• 46:00Lewis Howes?

  Physical pain, emotional pain, you know, it's gonna come out in cancer, it's gonna come out in attacking someone or hitting someone.

• 46:07Chris Lee?

  Well, they say that men die earlier than women in our society because men don't express how they feel.

• 46:16Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 46:16Chris Lee?

  Because most men die of a broken heart. And what happens is that men, what they do is men are experts at stuffing their feelings and stuffing their emotions. And so what you're saying is so important that part of the myth of masculinity is not to show how you feel. People die and you stuff it, people break up and you stuff it, you lose a job and you stuff it. But that stuffing it gets manifested, like you just said, in a lot of different ways. I've seen it in my training rooms, I I could tell. I could tell people walk in, people that are addicted, people that are workaholics, people that are miserable,

• 46:55Chris Lee?

  people that have mansions and no one in it, people that have cancer, you know, they they walk around with a body or the bag to go to the bathroom, you know, people, it develops cancer, heart disease, all of the, think of the word disease, dis-ease. I'm not at peace, I'm in dis-ease. When you're at ease, you're in peace, when you're in dis-ease, that creates disease. And so this, this podcast can save your life. Really listen to it because.

• 47:26Chris Lee?

  As we start letting go of our feelings and our emotions, that rejuvenates us.

• 47:34Lewis Howes?

  Is there any final thing you want to talk about this topic? I feel like we've gone for a while about it, but I want to kind of button it up and give people some things to do. We've already given some great exercises, given them some, some information, some awareness. Is there anything final point about what men or women could do to move forward in their lives around this topic?

• 47:53Chris Lee?

  I think educating yourself, I think reinventing the definitions. Like what it really means to be a man. And I think that what it means to be a man or a woman has to do with your values and your principles. And what's the legacy you're going to leave behind?

• 48:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 48:13Chris Lee?

  What gift do you leave behind when you go? You know, it's not the man with the most toys that wins. It's the man or the woman that touched the most hearts that win. That's my final message.

• 48:27Lewis Howes?

  I love it. Make sure to get Chris's book, Transform Your Life, 10 Principles of Abundance and Prosperity. We'll link it up here in the show notes. You've already given your, your definition of greatness. You've already shared your three truths. Uh, so I'm going to acknowledge you for the last moment to, um, acknowledge you for constantly showing up with a huge, vulnerable, loving heart. And educating me, educating our audience. I think there's been over a million downloads from all the episodes you've been on. So you've impacted so many people's lives. So thanks for being a constant giver, giver, giver, lover. It's amazing. I appreciate you.

• 49:03Chris Lee?

  It is my honor.

• 49:05Lewis Howes?

  Yes, I appreciate it. And make sure to, uh, connect with Chris, at Chris Motivador on Twitter is the main place you hang out.

• 49:12Chris Lee?

  And Instagram, Chris Lee 65.

• 49:15Lewis Howes?

  Chris Lee 65.

• 49:16Chris Lee?

  Facebook, Chris Lee Motivational Trainer.

• 49:19Lewis Howes?

  Awesome. We'll link it all up. Thank you, Chris.

• 49:21Chris Lee?

  Thank you, Lewis. Love it. This is home.

• 49:27Lewis Howes?

  Alright ladies and gentlemen, what did you guys think of this episode? What opened up for you? Share with me over on Twitter or over on the comments, on the YouTube channel, on the blog, anywhere. Let me know what opened up for you. Again, @lewishouse on Twitter, @chrismotivador on Twitter as well. LewisHowes.com/362 to get all the resources, all the links to watch the full video interview, to get the one-line quotes that you thought were awesome. We have all those linked up as well for you to share them out and to have the conversation about what you think is masculinity and what the art of masculinity is like for you. So, let me know what you think.

• 50:08Lewis Howes?

  If you enjoyed this episode as well and you haven't yet left a review over on iTunes, now is your chance. We have over 1,000 5-star reviews, but I want to get more people leaving feedback and reviewing because that's going to help spread this message out to more people over on iTunes and in the world. We get over 1.3 million downloads a month and we're looking to double, triple, quadruple that as fast as possible to reach more people and help them live their best life and live in their greatness. So, please leave a review at iTunes.com/SchoolOfGreatness. I love you guys. Again, share this out with your friends. Let me know what you think. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.