JRE MMA Show #179 with Josh Thompson & "Big" John McCarthy

Joe sits down with Josh Thompson, a retired champion mixed martial artist and fight analyst, and Big John McCarthy, a veteran mixed martial arts referee, Professional Fighters League commentator, and founder of Big John McCarthy’s C. O. M. M. A. N. D., an internationally recognized training school for referees and judges in mixed martial arts. Josh and John host the “Weighing In” podcast.www.youtube.com/@WeighingInhttps://linktr.ee/weighinginpodcastwww.mmareferee.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. 50% off your first box at https://thefarmersdog.com/rogan! Use code ROGAN at https://BlueChew.com to get 10% OFF + Free Overnight Shipping on your first order. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience. Show you my day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Gentlemen, good life. What's happening?

• 0:15Joe Rogan?

  Good to see ya.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  What is up?

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  I enjoy your show. Your show's excellent. You guys have a really good MMA show. It's really solid.

• 0:21Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you. I kinda blew that.

• 0:23Joe Rogan?

  How'd you blow it?

• 0:24Speaker 01

  We can talk about that. You know, I gotta talk to him about that.

• 0:27Joe Rogan?

  You guys are not doing it anymore?

• 0:28Speaker 01

  I stepped back away when I started refereeing again.

• 0:32Joe Rogan?

  God damn it. You gotta go back to doing it. You guys are great. You guys are a great combination.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  I think I might.

• 0:37Speaker 03

  What we did is we started doing McCarthy Mondays, because when he went back to refereeing, he's not allowed to talk about promotions, not allowed to talk about fighters and what's wrong, and the things that possibly, you know, can make some changes in. So, we just started McCarthy Monday, where we just talk about like the Joe Schilling situation. That's something we could talk about, right?

• 0:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 0:56Speaker 03

  So, I just, I created a show for him to just only do on Mondays.

• 0:59Joe Rogan?

  He created.

• 1:00Speaker 03

  Nice. Well, it's his input.

• 1:03Speaker 01

  He created it.

• 1:03Speaker 03

  It's his input. I was just trying to find ways to keep him involved.

• 1:06Joe Rogan?

  I love that you're refereeing again. We need great referees, but I wish you were out there doing both. It doesn't make sense to me that you can't do both. Like, it's not like you're not gonna be a great referee while also still being able to comment objectively about promotions. It's important.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  It is important.

• 1:21Joe Rogan?

  It's important.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  Transparency, where's ever the problem with that?

• 1:25Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  But you get these people that, oh no, because you might say something that is gonna create a problem, and it's like, it's not a problem if it's the truth.

• 1:34Joe Rogan?

  It's ridiculous. I mean, if that was the case, why, how come I can do it as a commentator? How come all these guys can do it?

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Because you're the best.

• 1:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but I mean, everybody should be able to have a voice, especially referees. You should, like, if something happens, and you're a referee, and you could say, here's my perspective, this is why I did what I did. And you have it on a podcast on a regular basis, that's a benefit to everybody.

• 1:58Speaker 03

  So, that is what I'm trying to create with him.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  I believe you're right.

• 2:01Speaker 03

  But what you run into is you run into some issues where the referee says too much, and then people come back at him, and then the commissions have to answer for it, and then the fighters dig on them, and then...

• 2:11Joe Rogan?

  Good. People are talking. That's how shit gets solved. That's how, you don't have, like, one hand down does not down a opponent anymore. Why? Because we fucking complained forever. 12 to 6 elbows. They're legit again. Except in New Jersey.

• 2:27Joe Rogan?

  You see the problem?

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29Joe Rogan?

  The goddamn problem? When we were in New Jersey, I was like, "You gotta be kidding me." How the fuck do you guys not have 12 to 6 elbows?

• 2:34Speaker 03

  You can't make it any more complicated for the referees and the fighters.

• 2:37Joe Rogan?

  It's so dumb. It's the dumbest fucking thing of all time.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  It's so unfair to the fighters themselves because you, when we, like I was part, I wrote those things out and they were passed by the ABC, but we gave six months, six months, because you gotta give the fighters time to train to make sure that they get it right, okay? And so it's, put it in, it works great, and now you expect them to go back to one location.

• 3:03Joe Rogan?

  And remember, in the middle of a fight.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Exactly. One location, and now they're gonna automatically go back to the old rules. It's like, you realize what you're doing to them?

• 3:11Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't make any sense either. The old rules are fucking stupid. We all, we all agreed. Everybody, no one was like, "No, no, no, 12 to 6 elbows are too dangerous."

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, there was.

• 3:22Joe Rogan?

  Was there people?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, your broadcast partner.

• 3:24Joe Rogan?

  Shut the fuck up. Which one?

• 3:25Speaker 01

  Dan Cormier.

• 3:26Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  I swear to God.

• 3:28Joe Rogan?

  He says some crazy shit.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  He does say some crazy shit.

• 3:30Joe Rogan?

  DC, I love you, but he says some crazy shit.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  I just had DC on yesterday.

• 3:33Speaker 03

  Why did he say that 12 to 6 elbows?

• 3:35Speaker 01

  He goes, "I think that rule should absolutely, that's dangerous, I swear."

• 3:38Joe Rogan?

  If we're gonna ban anything, and I don't think we should ban anything, but if we're gonna ban anything, side kicks to the knees.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  See, that, that right there.

• 3:45Joe Rogan?

  Right? I don't think we should.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Okay, no, you shouldn't.

• 3:47Joe Rogan?

  I don't think we should, but I'm saying if we should, there's an argument that you're gonna blow out a guy's knee. His career and they'll be the same again.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  Then we should, then we should absolutely ban kicks to the head and knees to the head, and we should, we should ban, yes, because what's worse, the blown out knee or the blown out brain?

• 4:01Joe Rogan?

  I'm agreeing with you. I don't think we should ban anything, but there's one thing that does bother me, like the Khalil Roundtree, Modestis, Pekoska fight, when his knee went sideways, I'm like, "Oh, he's fucked for a year, at least, if not forever, if not forever."

• 4:16Speaker 01

  But what's the difference between that and we'll say, you know, Eson Barbosa, Terry, Terry Adam? Terry Adam, and that kick to the head, you don't think that that was more than a year? Come on, you know it was.

• 4:28Joe Rogan?

  Really was never the same again.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Exactly, that's my point.

• 4:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, I mean, that was like getting hit by a meteor.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 4:33Joe Rogan?

  That was crazy.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  I mean, it was absolutely perfectly executed, beautiful technique, that it absolutely altered, and then we talk all the time.

• 4:42Joe Rogan?

  First wheel kick KO in the USA.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Absolutely, it was.

• 4:45Joe Rogan?

  I didn't know that. Yeah.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, but you look and you go... There are those fights and we say it all the time and you know you as the as a referee, as a fighter, you know with him. Here it is right here. We go and watch this thing. Oh, I mean, just.

• 4:58Joe Rogan?

  That one was just insane.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  But you, the fighters themselves, they get paid to get damaged. I hate to say that, but it's the truth. That's part of their pay is they go in and they're gonna accept some damage, but you don't want them to have unnecessary damage.

• 5:13Joe Rogan?

  Right. No, I agree with you. So do you think we go rise in rules?

• 5:18Joe Rogan?

  Cause there's something to be said for that?

• 5:19Speaker 01

  I do. I look at, I've, I've advocated for knees on the ground for a long time. It's never gonna happen.

• 5:24Joe Rogan?

  My position is it's better in a ring, cause you can avoid them a little bit if you're mobile. Right? If you're still conscious and you have defensive capability, you can move around knees and kicks. When the cage happens and you're butted up and someone stomps you, that's a totally different.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  First off, the stomp I don't ever agree with. And the reason why is this? Name me the fight that you saw that a stomp was an effective technique when the fighter was not already seriously hurt. Doesn't happen.

• 5:52Joe Rogan?

  Sakuraba.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Sakuraba used to do it all the time after he hurt people. Every time he tried to do it when they weren't hurt, they just moved and he was Mongolian stomping on nothing.

• 6:02Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Go ahead. Take a look at him.

• 6:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'd have to go back and watch.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, there was, there was uh, Minowa and Phil Barone, he did that a couple of times with him when Minowa couldn't get the takedown. Cause I was there cornering him for that fight. There was that fight, then there was um, and then Shogun and Ninja, remember when they used to like do the stomp through?

• 6:17Speaker 01

  No, Shogun, Ninja and Shogun, the brothers together. Those guys were phenomenal at them.

• 6:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, and we, people that only saw Shogun in Pride missed it.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:28Joe Rogan?

  You missed it. Excuse me, in the UFC, you missed it in Pride.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  Quinton Rampage Jackson was, I mean, cause a lot of people didn't, you know, going into that fight, you know, that's Rampage. You know, this, this guy's young. He absolutely just annihilated Rampage in that fight. And it was like, oh my God, he's way better than I ever gave him credit for before that fight. That fight was, that was a coming out party for, for Shogun.

• 6:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was a lethal striker. Lethal and all. Those Kuratiba guys were so hyper aggressive.

• 7:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, his brother was just as nasty until he, you know, he's got a little chinny after a couple shots.

• 7:06Joe Rogan?

  He started fighting big guys.

• 7:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was the problem.

• 7:08Joe Rogan?

  Didn't he fight Alexander? Didn't he, who did he fight? He fought some heavyweight, right?

• 7:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, and he got.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  He fought quite a few.

• 7:15Speaker 03

  Crushed.

• 7:16Joe Rogan?

  But he fought one guy where it was like, what is this? Why is he fighting this guy?

• 7:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can't remember who it was.

• 7:23Joe Rogan?

  Was it a million inco's brother?

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Alexander a million inco.

• 7:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think it was that.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  I think it was.

• 7:28Joe Rogan?

  And it was like one of those fights like, no, no, no, no, no. This is a real fucking heavyweight, a big one with nasty striking.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:35Joe Rogan?

  You know, I mean, he was fucking nasty.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  He was good.

• 7:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he, he had some smooth striking.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  People don't give the million inco's as a whole. Alexander was a little bit off, a little bit crazy.

• 7:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, a lot.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:48Joe Rogan?

  How about the dead baby on his back? Like the fucking death holding a baby tattooed on his back? Like, that's a choice. That's a fucking, see if you find Alexander a million inco's back tattoo. You look at that, you're like, what is going on in your mind that you're like, this should be on my back permanently?

• 8:08Speaker 01

  But that's the brother, and then you have Fedor as the guy who is even better.

• 8:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  And look at Fedor is, you know, he was such a good guy.

• 8:18Joe Rogan?

  Look at that fucking tattoo. What does it say in Russian, Jamie?

• 8:25Joe Rogan?

  That's a, oh man. That is the craziest thing. The baby's got a fucking sword and a crown.

• 8:29Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:30Joe Rogan?

  And then death is like, yes, let's kill everyone.

• 8:32Speaker 03

  Right there.

• 8:34Joe Rogan?

  It's not even a good drawing. It's like, that's some Russian prison shit for sure.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Some Russian.

• 8:38Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  He's a hundred percent committed.

• 8:40Joe Rogan?

  Has a ballpoint pen and a fucking sewing needle.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 8:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they did that in a Russian prison. A hundred percent.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Urine and ash.

• 8:48Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, bro. That's a lot of time. God is with us. Are you sure? Are you sure? Based on that photo?

• 8:57Speaker 03

  And then you got his brother's brother has no tattoos.

• 8:59Joe Rogan?

  No tattoos. See, you can find it. Completely different.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  Small little wooden cross on his chest, you know, as far as.

• 9:03Joe Rogan?

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• 9:46Joe Rogan?

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• 11:09Joe Rogan?

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• 11:54Joe Rogan?

  With James Thompson, animal built like fucking Greek god, comes out, rrrrr. Terrifying, fucking huge.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  The best is the look on Alexander's face throughout all of the thing. I'm going to fall asleep.

• 12:09Joe Rogan?

  Just completely stoic. Look at Thompson so worked up.

• 12:12Speaker 03

  Starts pounding his chest.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  He's shaking. Look at him.

• 12:16Joe Rogan?

  He's ready to fuck this guy.

• 12:19Joe Rogan?

  He just stepped out of a bar. He's no flexing at all. Doesn't even lift his hand up all the way, say, "Hey, everybody."

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Got the belly hanging out a little bit. It's awesome.

• 12:28Joe Rogan?

  Look how chilly he looks. Look how Joe Fator looks too, like no worries at all. Look at James, he's so fucking hyped up. Alexander's like, it's like he's ordering a sandwich. It's like I'll have Swiss cheese and mustard. He's ordering a sandwich.

• 12:49Speaker 03

  It's vicious. And then he, he rocks him too, right off the bat.

• 12:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, James comes charging at him.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  Puts him down, but he wasn't hurt.

• 12:56Joe Rogan?

  It's like he fell down.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  That hurt. That hurt James. That hurt James.

• 13:02Joe Rogan?

  Once he starts connecting.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:04Joe Rogan?

  They had that Soviet style fluid boxing that, that's just whip punches.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Look, I, I'll tell you what, I worked out with Fedor. And it was, it would, it was a great moment in my life if you're gonna sit there and say, well, if you're gonna get your ass kicked, it's a great moment. But the one thing I always thought, you know, before, you know, watching him, reffing him, I go, he's gotta have some kind of, you know, like, just tard strength, you know?

• 13:28Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  No, he's fast. And I mean, super fat. When he explodes, and, and his hands are down kinda, so it's hard to see when the shots are coming. And everything he does, he just explodes into. And you go, oh, I get it. Because you gotta work really hard to try to stay up with his speed when he all of a sudden is exploding. And then it's like, oh, he doesn't get tired and you're starting to get tired because you're having to match that RPM that he's at.

• 13:55Joe Rogan?

  Right. And he's not a big heavyweight.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  No, he's not.

• 13:58Joe Rogan?

  Which I think is a real benefit.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  I think it is.

• 14:00Joe Rogan?

  Until you're fighting a guy like Ngano. And then I'm like, there's a problem there.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:07Joe Rogan?

  That guy can be patient, 265 naturally, nuclear power.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Ngano hits you anywhere in the head.

• 14:14Joe Rogan?

  It's a problem.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  You're in trouble.

• 14:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a real problem. Yeah.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  He hit Phillip Lindsay, hit him on the basic, almost, we didn't even say the temple, hit him almost to the top of the head. And look, he was out. I mean, he's not be able to, to control his body. That guy's got the ability to hurt, you know, when he fought Kane. You know, take a look.

• 14:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  It wasn't a great shot, but it hurt him.

• 14:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's got crazy power.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, just nuts.

• 14:36Joe Rogan?

  But Fedor was a different thing because Fedor had that like, that Russian style of movement that you see like Dmitry Bivol has, where they're real relaxed and then they explode. And the footwork and movement.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  That little bit of a bounce. He's got that little bit of a bounce, in, out, just, just in a way, and he waits for your motion to come where he wants it to be. And then he changes that distance and just cracks.

• 14:57Joe Rogan?

  Fedor did a really good job of coming around. Your guard as well. So it wasn't just a big straight right all the time. You know, Rich Franklin used to do that as well. He'd come around your guard and he'd put your hands up. And Fedor had a, he did a great job with that, coming around and landing the big overhand right. And then he'd come up, uppercut, then he'd take you down or hip toss you, body lock you. And if you took him to the ground off his back, he's got one of the quickest fucking arm bars in the game, which is nuts. Transitions are smooth. Oh, yeah. He arm barred a seven foot tall dude. He looks like a little kid. He's all stretched out. He looks, it's like in this, you go, he's off the ground completely. He was great everywhere. And in, you, you know, you, you think about him as being this overall picture of like one of the greatest, if not the greatest MMA fighter of all time.

• 15:38Joe Rogan?

  But people forget, like, his standup was so good that the Crow Cop fight was mostly standup.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  He wrote, he wrote the blueprint on how to beat Crow Cop.

• 15:47Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Which, you gotta be him to do it, though.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:50Joe Rogan?

  The thing, I mean, he, first of all, his, his standup has always been real dangerous. On, but also it's like the way he was able to check that left kick. He was doing a lot of like lifting the knee up and catching it like. Up high. Yeah.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  How many people had you seen that would back Crow Cop onto his back foot and march forward?

• 16:10Joe Rogan?

  Nobody.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Crook, exactly. And that was.

• 16:11Joe Rogan?

  Not in his prime.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  That was the difference is when you looked at it, he, he told himself, nope, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make you go backwards. And it took a lot of what Crow Cop did and it, it just nullified a lot of it.

• 16:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, it was a lot of it was the threat of the grappling, right?

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:23Joe Rogan?

  That was a big part of it. Well, not with that, cause then Fedor didn't have to worry about if, if he did slip and fall. If he threw, if he threw a big shot and he got cut from underneath, if he did fall to the ground. Exactly. Crow Cop was gonna fall onto the ground. He could just hop back up. Yeah. So there was that. And then on top of it too, when you fought him in the phone booth, you don't have to, you're not worried as much for that head kick to get there if I'm within, you know, inches of you.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  That left kick was.

• 16:43Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, there's this picture of Heath Herring where the shin is like halfway into Heath's ribs.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:50Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy. You know that picture?

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Yes, I do.

• 16:52Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy. You see Crow Cop's shin is just so deep. You just feel your own liver. I've seen the Vanderlei ones, cause Vanderlei has, his ribs were just tore up from, from their fight. Look at that picture. Look at that picture. Bro, that's crazy.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  Do you know how much that hurts? I mean, that is.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  Actually, I do.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  That's the part where you look at people and you go, you know, do you realize what, you know, yeah, that would hurt a little. No, no, no. Your entire body is going, I quit. It just seizes up.

• 17:21Joe Rogan?

  He had such explosive power. And he, to me, he was like the first guy to figure out how to transition from kickboxing to MMA. Because he did it with explosiveness.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  But Maurice Smith, come on, you gotta give him, yes. Maurice Smith, I gotta give him, you know.

• 17:34Joe Rogan?

  That's true. That's true. Maurice, Maurice was the first. But Cro Cop was in that same era. And he was doing it in Pride.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:40Joe Rogan?

  And all those other guys like Ernesto Houst, it didn't really work out for them when they, like, he only fought Bob Sapp in a kickboxing fight. But even when they were fighting like bigger, like, Cro Cop fucked up Bob Sapp. Like, same era.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, same time.

• 17:52Joe Rogan?

  Not, yeah, same time period.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Same, same.

• 17:55Joe Rogan?

  It was that explosiveness. Whereas like, guys like Peter Ertz, that wouldn't translate as well in MMA. Elite strikers, but they wanted to get into a rhythm. They wanted to like, get into situations and exchanges. And with Cro Cop, it was just, these one shots were coming at you like nuclear missiles. And it was a different threat. It was a completely different threat than a lot of other guys, because he was so explosive.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, he's, Cro Cop was, what a great guy.

• 18:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's an awesome guy.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  As far as, you know, and, but, his left kick has to be the best left kick there's ever been.

• 18:29Joe Rogan?

  Ever.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  In the sport of MMA.

• 18:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't think you could even think of a second place. Like, who's got a better left kick than Cro Cop? Maybe Edson Barbosa's switch kick.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:37Joe Rogan?

  That switch kick was preposterous.

• 18:39Speaker 03

  Quick, so accurate, too.

• 18:41Joe Rogan?

  In his prime, he would kick, and I'd be like, is there something wrong with my eyes?

• 18:44Speaker 03

  So fast.

• 18:45Joe Rogan?

  It was, ah, ah! It was just like a 120-pound guy.

• 18:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:49Joe Rogan?

  It was so fast.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, they, Dana called me a couple of times to fight him, and I was like, ranked number three. He was like, just, I think he hit number 15. I'm like, no.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  Give me a higher rank, guy.

• 19:01Speaker 03

  Sorry, dude.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  It's not that I, it's not that I wouldn't fight him. It's, give me a higher rank, guy.

• 19:06Joe Rogan?

  Make it make sense.

• 19:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:07Joe Rogan?

  Make it make sense.

• 19:08Speaker 03

  Help me help you. Come on.

• 19:10Joe Rogan?

  At this time in my life, make it make sense.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  When he came in though, you gotta look at Barbosa, you know, he's been there a long time now when you think about it.

• 19:22Joe Rogan?

  Still going at it.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  But when he came in, it was like, dude, this is a next level of stand-up ability with what this guy can do.

• 19:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  And it was like.

• 19:32Joe Rogan?

  And oddly mostly kicks.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:34Joe Rogan?

  Like his boxing wasn't threatening like his kicks were. It was not equal. It was mostly kicks.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 19:39Speaker 03

  No. If he could have developed something along the Jose Aldo level of boxing where even the body came back at the top of the head with those kicks, I mean.

• 19:48Joe Rogan?

  Aldo's takedown defense was nuts.

• 19:49Speaker 03

  Probably the best, I think probably the best in the sport that we've seen. I mean, honestly.

• 19:53Joe Rogan?

  Other than BJ in his prime.

• 19:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, right? With the one-leg hop.

• 19:56Joe Rogan?

  BJ in his prime was ridiculous. His balance was fucking insane.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:59Joe Rogan?

  But I think he's the only guy that didn't get taken down by Murab. When Murab and him fought three crazy rounds, I think Murab went for like 90 fucking takedowns or something. And I don't think he took Murab, I don't think Murab took him down. I think Murab mostly won that fight up against the cage, hitting with punches, working for takedowns, cage damage.

• 20:18Speaker 03

  Extremely underestimated Jose Aldo's takedown defense.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  People, it's the funny, you take a look and Aldo doesn't now, all of a sudden, it's kinda like the Anderson Silva thing. All of a sudden, it's like, you know, well, let's talk about the very best in the 145-pound. And look at Alexander Volkanovski, he's right there. He's phenomenal. You know, I'm not saying, don't forget what Jose Aldo did.

• 20:40Joe Rogan?

  Absolutely.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  I mean, through the WEC, end up being the UFC champ, and all those fights, man, I'll tell you what, that guy was absolutely nuts as far as how good he was at one time.

• 20:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think it was also because he was an elite soccer player. And the ability to, like, if you ever watch a live soccer, a professional soccer match, you're like, oh, Jesus, like, these guys, they don't get to slow down. They don't have a, like, there's no halftime. There's no, like, big break for commercials. There's no bullshit. They just go.

• 21:08Speaker 03

  There's no timeouts.

• 21:09Joe Rogan?

  Giant fucking legs. They all have insane leg power, because they're just sprinting all day long. And you go, oh, well, that would translate perfectly to MMA, for kicking, for moving, for footwork.

• 21:20Speaker 03

  Think about all, it's not just that, right? It's the stop and go, stop and go, like in a real fight, right? takedown and get to rest for a second then he postures back up and gets back to his feet I gotta go again and sprints again get the takedown in soccer same thing you run hard down the line oh ball gets turned back now you kind of jog back a little bit now the ball gets played to you it's the stop and go of sprinting just like a real fight

• 21:38Joe Rogan?

  this episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog here's a fun fact research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time so why is feeding vague scoops of ultra processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners healthy alternatives exist and trust me I know I buy one the farmer's dog I use it for both my dogs they love it they eat it up quick it smells good to them it smells good to me it's human grade food the farmer's dog makes fresh food for dogs

• 22:17Joe Rogan?

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• 22:56Speaker 03

  yeah it's interesting there's a bunch of different bases that if you come from them they have a big advantage it puts you in a big advantage in different sports yeah soccer and wrestling those two things the grinding of the wrestling and just the cardio fatigue and understanding that I can push through when I get tired because there's nothing more satisfying you know in terms of when you run down the line a guy plays the ball into the corner and you gotta beat that defender there and you cross it across and you're it's that sprinting down there to beat him but then also two in wrestling knowing that you can break another human being like I need to break you mentally grind on you and hang on you those two sports I think are huge for the sport of MMA

• 23:31Joe Rogan?

  and getting used to suffering dehydrated Right, there's a big factor.

• 23:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, the weight cuts.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  Getting used to suffering.

• 23:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but the weight cuts and having to compete on the same day as weight cuts is a big difference. And for people that have never done that before and don't know, it's fucking hard. Even 24 hours is hard. Weight cutting is the grossest thing in MMA.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  It is.

• 23:52Joe Rogan?

  They should figure out a way to stop it.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  I totally.

• 23:55Joe Rogan?

  I don't know what the way is.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  You're gonna talk about one of the most.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  There is no way.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  One of the most dangerous things that you do with it. Like, think about this, Joe. Every, every sport, soccer, football, baseball, basketball, they all have team chefs, they all have all these things. As far as we want our athletes to be as physically ready and have the right nutrition and all these things, what's the sports that we go and we starve our athletes and dehydrate them?

• 24:21Joe Rogan?

  24 hours before a cage fight. 24 hours before the most demanding, most dangerous sport in the world.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 24:27Speaker 03

  But Joe, even if we did it the same day, fighters would still cut weight to try and make that weight. They would still do that to themselves.

• 24:33Joe Rogan?

  The question is, I wonder if there's a way to prevent that. Like, the way to prevent that, I would say is, everybody, here's your mandate. No one's getting out of shape anymore because we're gonna have random weigh-ins. So we're gonna just show up at your fucking gym.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  Can't do it.

• 24:46Joe Rogan?

  But, but you, could you? Like, let's say you fight at 170. You cannot weigh more than 180.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  See, here's the, you could do it.

• 24:53Joe Rogan?

  On any given day. I'll show up at your fucking house at 7:00 in the morning, Josh, get on the scale, 175. This is not good.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  You could do it as a promotion. You can't do it as an industry within the sport. And the reason why I'm telling, saying that is, first off, you have all these fighters, we'll say, they're all everywhere, okay, all over the world, and for a, for an athletic commission, we'll say the state of California, state of Texas, they have to have that particular fighter licensed for them to say, we wanna weigh you. If they're not licensed in that state on that year, they can't.

• 25:30Joe Rogan?

  Right, but we could. But if it got, if it got adopted by the UFC, I bet most of the organizations would adopt it as well.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  But again, that's, the UFC has a promotion.

• 25:39Joe Rogan?

  The UFC is talked about.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  And UFC has the money to actually do that, but it's gonna cost them a lot of money and you know, look at, I understand why the promotion doesn't want to lose money just weighing people.

• 25:49Joe Rogan?

  I think the fight would be better. I think guys would be in way better condition.

• 25:51Speaker 03

  I think we've seen the performances have gotten better since they stopped cutting as much weight.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  You could sit there and, you know, the only way an athletic commission could kind of do it, and, but this is bad on promotions, is an athletic commission could sit there and say, "You're allowed to weigh no more than five pounds more than that weigh-in weight." Okay, but here's your problems with it. First off, the promotion could lose fights. The promotion doesn't want to lose fights.

• 26:16Joe Rogan?

  Right, true.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  Okay, and the second part is, what's saying that the fighter themselves is not keeping themselves dehydrated to make that five pound, and now they're going in even more dehydrated into the fight, which could cause them more problems.

• 26:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, they couldn't be dehydrated through their entire camp, and that's where you institute randoms.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  That's why your randoms would work if the promotion was doing it.

• 26:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it would have to.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  But to do it sportwide, it'd be almost impossible.

• 26:39Joe Rogan?

  It would have to take a long time to figure out how to do it properly and not lose fights. Cause there's too many guys that fuck around.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 26:46Joe Rogan?

  You know, there's, right, there's too many guys that like, like, how many times did Jon Jones not really train?

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:52Joe Rogan?

  You know, like the Gustafson fight, the first one, they said he didn't really train.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Ten days.

• 26:56Joe Rogan?

  Showed up a little bit here and there, didn't really train. So if there's a guy like that, what are you gonna not let him fight? Like, what are you gonna do? Like, he weighs 226 and you're like, no, that's too much?

• 27:06Speaker 03

  You also have guys like Michael Morales right now, 170 pounder, he's walking around like, huge.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  220 pounds.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  Guys like 210, 212, 205, I mean.

• 27:14Joe Rogan?

  There's a few of those guys where I'm standing next to him, like Gregory Rodriguez, I'm like, how?

• 27:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:19Joe Rogan?

  How? How are you ever 185 pounds?

• 27:21Speaker 01

  How was, how, how was Alex 185 pounds? I stand next to him and go, "You gotta be shitting me."

• 27:28Joe Rogan?

  Nuts, nuts.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  It's unbelievable.

• 27:31Joe Rogan?

  And at 185 pounds, nuclear power, but I don't think he took a shot as well.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  He didn't. There's no doubt about it. Look at him.

• 27:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  You can go back and look at his fights. He got hurt by shots that were not as hard as the ones he's taken at 205.

• 27:44Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  Based upon?

• 27:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  It's that weight cut.

• 27:46Joe Rogan?

  It's the point of diminishing returns, right? It's like, there's a place where you're just doing it too much. And, you know, you kinda love to see freaks. You love to see a guy like Alex weighing at 185. You're like, "Good luck with that." "Good luck with this 226-pound fucking Amazon warrior that pretended to be 185 for five minutes."

• 28:06Speaker 01

  For five minutes.

• 28:07Speaker 03

  But you take a look at him, I'm so surprised how he can make the weight. When you pass by him and you see how tall he is, how big he is, and you see him with the face off with cereal gone right now, you're like, "How would this guy ever make 185?"

• 28:16Joe Rogan?

  He's 250 now.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:18Joe Rogan?

  Which is crazy.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  I saw him last week and it's like, geez.

• 28:22Joe Rogan?

  Dude, 250 means, that's almost 70 pounds different, man, from his UFC debut.

• 28:30Speaker 03

  The only case makes me believe that we're gonna see a better Alex is because he doesn't have to cut, kill himself.

• 28:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but he also put on muscle.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:38Joe Rogan?

  And there's an issue with that.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  Exactly. Again, diminishing returns. How much is that muscle gonna do? This is where you try to, you try to tell all fighters, and you know, it's, Joe, if, when you were fighting in Taekwondo, did you care about the strong guy? Or did you care about the fast guy?

• 28:54Joe Rogan?

  The difference is MMA with grappling. The, the difference is with weight, like if you get a big, heavy guy and he gets on top of you, you're, all your speed is gone.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Absolutely. You're right.

• 29:05Joe Rogan?

  It's gone within the first three or four minutes.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  But the problem with being the bigger, stronger guy in the lighter weight class is you're never the faster guy. And so you've got to be able to maul that, that person to, to be effective. And it only lasts for a certain amount of time if you had to dehydrate yourself to that point. Where speed is always there. When someone has it. To a point unless they get tired and that speed is hard for you to handle.

• 29:34Joe Rogan?

  But there's guys that were big for the weight class and had ridiculous speed like Conor McGregor is a perfect example of that.

• 29:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:40Joe Rogan?

  Conor at 145 was fast as fuck.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Conor was absolutely dehydrated to the point of being a concentration camp victim.

• 29:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, he looked like death.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  I mean, it was unbelievable.

• 29:49Joe Rogan?

  However, once he got in there, he was fast as fuck.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  Oh, I must say, look, he used to, he used to lose so much, at 145, he was.

• 29:58Joe Rogan?

  He looked like death.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  He was killing himself.

• 30:00Joe Rogan?

  I remember the weigh-ins, like interviewing him at weigh-ins, like this is crazy.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 30:04Joe Rogan?

  But then you see him the next day all full.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  I know, he looked good.

• 30:07Joe Rogan?

  Looking fucking handsome.

• 30:08Speaker 03

  Looking good.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  He was also, what was his age back then? 26, 27?

• 30:12Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  You can't do that now.

• 30:14Joe Rogan?

  No, you can't do that now. No, it gets to a certain point in time where you have to realize you're cutting too much weight and it's actually ruining your career.

• 30:19Speaker 03

  But I think the evidence has been pretty clear. When you see guys go up in weight after killing themselves for so long, they've had success.

• 30:25Joe Rogan?

  A lot of guys have. Look at Max.

• 30:26Speaker 03

  Would Max, I was just about to bring him up. I just had Dustin Poirier on the podcast yesterday and, and we were just talking about how, he's like, look, Max, the first time he came up to 55, didn't put the weight on properly. Second time, put it on properly, he's like, significant difference in power, mobility, movement.

• 30:42Joe Rogan?

  The BMF fight with Gagey? Oh, come on, man. That's, that guy should have never went down to 45 again to fight Poirier. It's too much loss.

• 30:50Joe Rogan?

  What, what are you pointing at?

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Because we, we had, we had that argument about that, that exact thing of, he would, Josh was saying, look, he should never, it was a championship fight. He was getting a world title fight at 145.

• 31:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Right? And I said, look, it's a world title fight. I understand why he's going back down. He's going, he's making a huge mistake. He should never take it. He should stay at 155. You know, work yourself into a title fight. And I go, I understand why he's taking it. It's a title fight.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  That made him the number one contender. He beat Justin Gagey, he could have fought Islam.

• 31:19Joe Rogan?

  I understand why he took the fight at 45. Might, maybe he would have favored that fight with Ilya, because Ilya is a smaller guy than Islam. Because if you think about it, Islam, he fucking smothers everybody.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, he does. I know.

• 31:31Joe Rogan?

  And his striking is dangerous as fuck. Well, of course you know.

• 31:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:33Joe Rogan?

  I know, a hundred thousand times. But it's like, that guy's, he's so fucking terrifying. Once he gets to 155. Hold you like he submits everybody.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  He's a whole lot better in the stand up than people give him credit for.

• 31:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he is?

• 31:44Speaker 01

  His stand up is actually really good now.

• 31:46Joe Rogan?

  He head kicked Volkanovski. I don't care if Volkanovski took it on 11 days notice. He still head kicked Volkanovski.

• 31:51Speaker 03

  He's got a sneaky left head kick, high kick. It's nasty.

• 31:54Joe Rogan?

  He fucks people up standing up and that's part of the problem is that like you get accustomed to thinking about this guy's a grappler. Yeah, and then all of a sudden, bing.

• 32:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, my point was though was that there was no, he put the weight on properly. He looked fantastic against Justin Gaethje. And then to go back down there to fight Iliya, I was like, doesn't make sense. You're the number one guy or number two guy. It is. You kill yourself to give it down, back down and then he gets knocked out, which we had never seen before.

• 32:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's Roy Jones Jr. Too, right? Remember when Roy Jones Jr. Went up and fought Ruiz? And then he went all the way down to 75 and got knocked out by Tarver. It's like, I don't think your body wants to go back down again. You know, you put on all that weight over like a year, you're lifting weights. You're and Max had like a ridiculous strength and conditioning program. He put real weight on. He looked very good at 55.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  When Max fought Aldo the first time for the title. He uh, he weighed, you know, obviously weighed in at championship weight 145, the night of the fight, Joe. Now, he was in street clothes, but they put him on a scale, 178.

• 32:52Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Swear to God. 170. Now, he's still, he was still clothed.

• 32:57Joe Rogan?

  That's cra- I don't, what is he wearing? Rocks in his pockets? That's crazy. So let's just be.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  Frank Shamrock with quarters in his pocket.

• 33:02Joe Rogan?

  Let's, right, when he fought Tito. Let's, let's just be real charitable and say his clothes weighed 10 pounds.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 33:09Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  You're looking at more than 20 pounds, but.

• 33:12Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Happens all the time. The, the show that just happened in uh, California, they know what they're doing with that, the MVP. The one guy, I can't, you know, 27 pound difference in weight at 170 pounds came in 27, 197.

• 33:26Joe Rogan?

  Who was it?

• 33:27Speaker 01

  Uh, I want to say his name, uh.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  Was it the guys right before Solidin?

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:32Speaker 03

  Parnas, uh, Freema?

• 33:36Speaker 01

  Starts with a Z, I want to say. I can't, I can't think of it. But 27 pounds.

• 33:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, obviously, the biggest one was Rumble Johnson.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 33:42Joe Rogan?

  Rumble Johnson was the craziest. He would weigh 230 and make it all the way.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  170?

• 33:46Joe Rogan?

  Basically what Morales is doing right now.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:49Joe Rogan?

  MVP event on Netflix.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  Fazil. Fazil, there you go.

• 33:51Joe Rogan?

  Namo Fazil, recorded the highest weight gain, 27.2 pounds. That's insane.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Can you believe that?

• 33:58Joe Rogan?

  That's insane. That's so much. He got in the cage at 198 for a 170-pound fight. I would love to get Morales on the scales. Like, right before he fought Sean Brady.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:09Joe Rogan?

  Like, excuse me, sir.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Sean Brady is, Sean Brady is a, a, a thick human. He's not, he's not super tall, but he's thick.

• 34:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  He is put together. And Morales made him look like a, like a lightweight.

• 34:23Joe Rogan?

  Like he was in the wrong division.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 34:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He looked like a light heavyweight.

• 34:25Speaker 03

  I was trying to make sense of it, watching it on TV. I thought, maybe it was the camera angle. And then they shifted. I was like, no, he's still bigger than him when he's further away.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  He's further away, still bigger, exactly.

• 34:33Joe Rogan?

  He's way bigger than him.

• 34:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:34Joe Rogan?

  It, it was a, that's a crazy situation where a guy can do that. And it's like the Pereira situation, 88.5 too. When a guy can do that. First of all, how long can you do it?

• 34:44Speaker 01

  That's the question.

• 34:45Joe Rogan?

  You know, because you're basically killing your kidneys every time you do it. You're just taking a little bit out of them.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  That was the problem with AJ, you know?

• 34:51Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 34:51Speaker 03

  Like, I, I used to coach and corner AJ early in his career when he first came into the UFC. And that was his problem. He'd make weight, sometimes he'd make it, sometimes he wouldn't. He missed weight a lot, to the point where...

• 34:59Joe Rogan?

  Do you think that affected whatever happened?

• 35:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 35:02Joe Rogan?

  God, that's fucking horrible.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:04Joe Rogan?

  That's fucking horrible.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  Again, you're leaving small bits and pieces of yourself.

• 35:10Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  In that damn cage, every time. Even when you win.

• 35:13Joe Rogan?

  When I heard he died, I was like, no.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  There's a true science to cutting weight. And he just, he didn't have it down. Like, he, he wrestled, you know, NCAA, or he wrestled Division II. Like, he was a really good wrestler. He knew how to make weight. But then trying to kill himself to get to 70 every single time.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Which he never had to be at.

• 35:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, he never had to be at it. I mean, he has massive power. He would have, he did great at heavyweights.

• 35:34Joe Rogan?

  And he's fast.

• 35:34Speaker 03

  He beat Orlovsky at heavyweight.

• 35:36Joe Rogan?

  In the World Series of Fighting.

• 35:37Speaker 03

  A long time ago.

• 35:38Joe Rogan?

  Broke his jaw.

• 35:39Speaker 03

  When Orlovsky was still super legit.

• 35:40Joe Rogan?

  Broke Orlovsky's jaw.

• 35:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:42Joe Rogan?

  Not that Orlovsky's not stu- super legit. Now, fucking guy wins, bear... knuckle heavyweight championship at like 100 years old.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Dude, you still sling it. And fought it smart. Yeah. Look at, there's a, you take a look at Andre Arlovski and people say whatever they want about his career's amazing. Since UFC 28 was his first show.

• 36:00Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Okay, went all the way, went all the way into today's day, basically. And, but he changed his style. You know, Arlovski was a big power puncher for a long time and then was getting hit with big shots and said, you know what? I'm gonna be a volume guy and he was successful with it.

• 36:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  And didn't take near as much damage.

• 36:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he fought a lot more technical, lots slicker.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Yep, didn't take big chances.

• 36:23Joe Rogan?

  Beat a lot of good guys too.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:25Joe Rogan?

  Beat Travis Brown when Travis was in his prime.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Yep. Oh, that, that fight with Travis Brown.

• 36:29Joe Rogan?

  Amazing.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Was a fricking awesome fight.

• 36:32Joe Rogan?

  Awesome fight.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 36:33Joe Rogan?

  Awesome fight, yeah.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Look at him.

• 36:35Joe Rogan?

  He's beating Rothwell.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  He tore Rothwell up.

• 36:37Joe Rogan?

  Which is, a lot of people were super surprised by that.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:40Joe Rogan?

  A lot of people thought, you know, Rothwell's a tank of a man. And he's a fucking scary big puncher and he just looks hairy like a fucking bear. He's scary.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  Rothwell's close to 400 pounds.

• 36:51Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. Is that real?

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is real.

• 36:54Joe Rogan?

  He's really that big?

• 36:55Speaker 01

  He's that big now. He's unbelievable.

• 36:57Joe Rogan?

  But meanwhile, he's the one getting busted up in this fight and it was because, you know, Arlovski was just fighting very clever. Just so tough after all these years, man.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  You watch this fight right now, they think that this fight gets stopped for that cut on his forehead. That is not why. He has a cut on his eye running up into his tear duct. And that's why it guy was, it wasn't that big of a cut, but anytime it goes to the tear duct.

• 37:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right there.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  There's the doctor saying, oh no, it's over.

• 37:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, to touch on, to touch on what John was saying though, is it really just comes down to how he changed his style of fighting. He either fought you all the way in or all the way out. He fought you in that foam booth so you couldn't get off big power shots to avoid being knocked out. Cause he went through a phase where he was getting clipped a lot and getting knocked out.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Didn't hurt.

• 37:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:39Speaker 03

  So he made that adjustment. That's good on him.

• 37:40Joe Rogan?

  And all those years in the game, never lost his enthusiasm.

• 37:43Speaker 03

  No.

• 37:44Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 37:44Speaker 03

  He's a character.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  Who are you talking? He's, he's fighting influencers at shows.

• 37:48Joe Rogan?

  Have you? I saw that. In the fucking, in the little kid, that was crazy. Imagine those fucking dumb kids.

• 37:55Speaker 03

  All right, little midgets running around trying to fucking get him. I was like, what are you guys doing?

• 38:00Joe Rogan?

  Are you crazy? Do you know who that is?

• 38:01Speaker 03

  The best part was, the, the influencer kid goes, hey, you can fight my bodyguard. And bodyguards in the back are going, uh-uh, sure, yeah, I'll do it. It's like, yeah, I'll fight him.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  That's a good idea.

• 38:11Joe Rogan?

  If your bodyguard doesn't know who Arlovski is, you need to get a new bodyguard.

• 38:17Speaker 03

  He's telling them that my bodyguard will fight him. I was like, oh shit.

• 38:20Joe Rogan?

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• 40:28Joe Rogan?

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• 40:39Joe Rogan?

  Did you guys watch the Rico Verhoeven Usyk fight?

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 40:42Speaker 03

  I watched the ending, yeah.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 40:44Speaker 03

  I thought it was a... I don't wanna say robbery, because I guess apparently Usyk was up on the scorecards 2-1.

• 40:50Joe Rogan?

  That's robbery. That's the robbery. That's the robbery. If that's the case, that's a robbery.

• 40:55Speaker 03

  He was up, I guess.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  I thought, first off, Rico Verhoeven, you know, we know what he's been in kickboxing, and he's been fantastic.

• 41:01Joe Rogan?

  Greatest of all time.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 41:02Joe Rogan?

  Greatest of all time.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you can look back on certain people, you know, Ernesto Houst, how great he was. Batahari was a badass.

• 41:10Joe Rogan?

  All of them were awesome, but Rico's accomplished more than anybody.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 41:14Joe Rogan?

  He's been undefeated for like more than 10 years. In kickboxing, that's nuts.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Yes, it is.

• 41:18Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Especially with the amount of rounds comparatively and stuff, because you can have a bad round and it can really affect your fight, just like MMA. But this fight, I really thought going in, I go, "Look, Rico will do okay for the first couple of rounds, and then it's gonna start to get to him." I was shocked by it.

• 41:33Joe Rogan?

  He fought very clever and...

• 41:35Speaker 01

  And he didn't fight, he didn't fight big. He actually created the problems of closing that distance. Every time, you look how close he gets, he kept on getting into the foam, and he would do work. And it was causing Usyk nothing but problems.

• 41:49Joe Rogan?

  Also, Rico is known for his discipline and his fitness.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:53Joe Rogan?

  Like, he's a guy who always has tremendous conditioning, and I think there's a lot of heavyweights that would be surprised at the work that this guy does and the pace that he could put on. So, a lot of people are like, "Oh, he's gonna get tired. He only fights 3-minute rounds and 5 rounds."

• 42:07Speaker 01

  And that's honestly what I was thinking. It gets past 5 rounds, I'm wondering how he's gonna be able to hold that pace.

• 42:11Joe Rogan?

  The guy's such a cardio fiend, and he's always shredded, and he's just, he's so used to combat, too, that like getting in there, just fighting Usyk, it's not a big deal.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  That right hand right there was, I mean, beautiful.

• 42:22Joe Rogan?

  Bro, he was winning 8-2, in my eyes.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 42:26Joe Rogan?

  I thought he was winning 8-2 going into the 11th round when the fight was stopped. Now, the fight shouldn't have been stopped the way it was stopped, but also... That was in eight seconds after the knockdown. So after he gets knocked down, he doesn't have his mouthpiece. So then they have to go over to the corner, they rinse off his mouthpiece.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  That's a mistake right there.

• 42:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the whole thing's a mistake. It takes like 30 seconds.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:47Joe Rogan?

  And then the referee stops it when he's still standing, moving around.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  Look, if there's one, one of the things that changed in boxing since I, like I referee boxing now.

• 42:55Joe Rogan?

  So here it is, right here. This is the end. We could watch it real quick. So this is the end. Look at all this time. So he's up and he goes over.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Well, this is a mistake right here.

• 43:04Joe Rogan?

  Lumbering over to his corner, "Hey, come on over."

• 43:05Speaker 01

  And watch the first thing, watch the first thing that happens. And this is what we'll talk about. "Oh, oh, a drop." That's on purpose. I'm doing that on purpose.

• 43:12Joe Rogan?

  Of course, I would. Any second counts. But then, look at this. So he swarms him with some punches, but Rico's moving. He's covering up, he's moving, and what is he supposed to do?

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:23Joe Rogan?

  What is he supposed to do? That's a bad stoppage.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  I agree with you.

• 43:26Joe Rogan?

  So if you're gonna stop it because you felt like the first knockdown was too much, why would you let him rinse the glove off? And he didn't take significant damage after that. That's a bad stoppage.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  No, that's, well, and it's also the end of the round.

• 43:37Joe Rogan?

  One second.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  It's the end of the round.

• 43:39Joe Rogan?

  It's literally the end of the round. I think he actually stops it when the round's over.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  But you, look, as the referee, Joe, you know all of this. And if you don't, you're not doing your job. First off, you know, he's got a full minute. If I let this go one second, he's got a full minute to recover here. Even if I did think he was a little bit hurt.

• 43:57Joe Rogan?

  Now, I think that if that was a legitimate eight count and they went right back to fighting, he would've stopped him there.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 44:03Joe Rogan?

  I think he was really rocked. When you see him go back to his corner, maybe's the key word.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  See, one of the things it used to be, though, in boxing, it was always that you would, if a mouthpiece hit the ground, you had to take it to the corner, have it rinsed with water, and have it placed back in the fighter's mouth.

• 44:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  Okay, that's not the way it is anymore. Because of MMA and the fact that we take a, we take a mouthpiece off of the ground and shoot, stuff it right back in the fighter's mouth.

• 44:25Joe Rogan?

  Mmm.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  They have now changed to the point of, they do the same thing. And the difference is, many times, we'll hand the mouthpiece to the, to the MMA fighter because they have, you know, gloveless fingers.

• 44:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Right? And they put it back in. Sometimes we'll put it back in, depending upon situations. But in boxing now, you take it, I'll put it back in his mouth, I'll say, "Is that..." That good, boom, fight.

• 44:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  You don't.

• 44:48Joe Rogan?

  Is that universal? Is that in Egypt as well? Do you think that's possible?

• 44:52Speaker 01

  No, you're talking about, you know, with, under the unified rules of boxing now, which is North America.

• 44:58Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Okay, that's, you know, most of the time you go to Egypt, they're still fighting under the unified rules. But the refereeing is always going to be different when you get a referee from England or somewhere. It's, it's a little bit different.

• 45:10Joe Rogan?

  But I wonder if the referee rules are different over there? If you're supposed to rinse off the mouthpiece before you put it back?

• 45:15Speaker 01

  No, what it means is you have not advanced as a referee to understand what we do now.

• 45:21Joe Rogan?

  Right, but what I'm saying is, do they have different rules over there?

• 45:24Speaker 01

  No, this is what I'm saying.

• 45:25Joe Rogan?

  Definitely not?

• 45:26Speaker 01

  You have not advanced as a referee.

• 45:28Joe Rogan?

  So everybody is the same rule. Mouthpiece goes down, you pick it up, you're right back in the fight.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  Can you? Yes.

• 45:33Speaker 03

  So it's like when the UFC goes to a country that doesn't have a commission, they sometime, they'll bring Herb Dean, they'll bring referees with them, so they know the rules to make sure that something like this doesn't happen. That referee hasn't followed up with the rules in a big time fight, so it costs them.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  He's not, he's not gone and, and advanced his, you know, training to understand, this is what we do now, and this is why, because we don't want, I don't want to take that time from Usyk, because Usyk did his job.

• 45:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  He hit him with an uppercut that absolutely blasted him, puts him on the mat. You go and he gets up, you give him the mandatory, now his mouthpiece comes out, am I going to walk it over to a corner? And have that mouthpiece washed out with water, which does what for it?

• 46:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Does it disinfect it?

• 46:14Joe Rogan?

  Kills all the cooties.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Exactly, okay? And that's the real thing, you know? So it doesn't do anything, and then, obviously, if there's something in the mouthpiece, we remove the thing from the mouthpiece, but normally it's just spit and blood if that's what's there. Put it back in, boom, bring him back in as abruptly as you can to make it fair for Usyk, who gained an advantage in the fight, you don't want to give the advantage to Verhoeven.

• 46:39Joe Rogan?

  Also, his mouthpiece came out earlier in the fight as well. It's like, that's a bad mouthpiece for a guy who's a world-class kickboxer, world champion kickboxer.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  That thing should be so hard for you to pull out.

• 46:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's odd that it kept falling out of his mouth. Rico with a boiling bite is nuts.

• 46:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, right, in the heavyweight division, it's nuts.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Do you remember Carl Parisian?

• 46:59Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  He would wear a boiling bite that wasn't boiled.

• 47:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, dude.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  Straight out of the packaging, that didn't make sense. That's the way people are though.

• 47:07Speaker 03

  That's wild to me.

• 47:09Joe Rogan?

  Boiling Bites are nuts. Well, it's also nuts. Here's a, we talk about this on the, the USC broadcast all the time, but I think it's nuts that you're still allowed to wear a Thai steel cup. I think it's fucking crazy.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  That's what I would wear.

• 47:21Joe Rogan?

  You have a, I would too.

• 47:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's all I ever wore. I can't believe, I can't wrap my head around how fighters don't wear them.

• 47:26Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent. I would, I agree with you a hundred percent. However, it should be illegal. It's fucking crazy. You have a piece of metal over your dick. You have actual iron over your cock. And if a guy kicks it with his toe, it's gonna shatter.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  I've always wondered the north-south position. You just start humping their head, right?

• 47:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh dude.

• 47:41Speaker 03

  Just giving them the business.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  There was one that did that.

• 47:43Joe Rogan?

  Do you remember Mia Rennavardi? Do you remember that guy, Boss Root and student? I trained with him at Legends and he mounted me once and he almost made me tap.

• 47:50Speaker 03

  Right here?

• 47:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, by just digging his dick into my sternum. This is fucking, I'm like, this is so rude. He grapevine, man. I'm like, bro, you're fucking killing me with this.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Fucking Shoddy Carter, Shoddy Carter, oh, Shoddy, Shoddy Carter just did where the oversized cup.

• 48:04Joe Rogan?

  Also awesome for arm bar too.

• 48:06Speaker 01

  That's how Frank Mir broke Tim Sylvia's arm.

• 48:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, that makes sense. That completely makes sense. But I think it would have broken it if it was just as nuts.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Well, as strong as Frank could be.

• 48:17Joe Rogan?

  As strong as he was, how good his arm bar was in that position. That was a crazy situation.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Oh yes, it was.

• 48:23Joe Rogan?

  That was crazy because I don't think the people in the audience had any idea what had happened.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  If you go back to that, you know, cause Herb Dean was the referee and, and Herb did a great job. But it was, I was actually in the corner of Tim Sylvia, you know, where I was sitting and I had Jeremy Horn and Matt Hughes and Pat Milletich are in his corner, right? And they had this, I had the same view that they had. And what you saw was Tim Sylvia, but you saw his elbow out from that arm bar.

• 48:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  Away from the hip. And all of a sudden Herb's stopping it. And they are going crazy. They're going, what are you doing here? And you know, and they're calling him every name in the book. And I go right inside the octagon and I go, Herb, what did you have? And he goes, John, his arm broke. I go, his arm broke? And he goes, I heard it and I saw it.

• 49:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can see the vibration.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  And he goes, his arm broke, right? And so at the time, the, uh, the person who was in charge of the medical staff for the Nevada State Athletic Commission, since it was in Nevada, they're looking at Tim and Tim is like going, you know, but you saw Tim slowly stop doing, using that one arm, started going down the side as, as reality started setting in and the pain started coming. But they, they basically said, there's nothing wrong with his arm, right? I swear, I swear to you, Herb, Herb's greatest response I've ever heard. He, they, he goes, x-ray that motherfucker, right? Because Herb never cusses, right? He goes, x-ray that motherfucker. It's broken, right? And sure enough, straight across both bones.

• 49:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, we could see it in the replay.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And you called it out.

• 49:58Joe Rogan?

  The forearm. Yeah. Cause everybody was booing. I'm like, you gotta watch this. Watch this. What's that? What's that right there? That's a broken arm.

• 50:04Speaker 03

  When I saw it the first time on TV, I thought it just shifted off of the cup. Cause sometimes you'll see that the bone will shift off. But then it, you can tell.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  It had two distinct pops.

• 50:12Joe Rogan?

  It had like that highlight where something bends, like a piece of plastic. You look horrible, man. That was horrible. He's broken more arms. Like he broke Nogera's arm, that spiral fracture.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  Spiral fracture with the Kamura, yeah.

• 50:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's nasty, man.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  No, that's, you know, it's funny. Cause if you're around, you know, Frank and you're talking, he'll always say.

• 50:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, here it is. Oh, God. I want to watch it again. Oh, watch it. Here it comes.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  Right here.

• 50:39Joe Rogan?

  Pop.

• 50:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God. And it's the forearm too, which is like super unusual.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  And everyone's wondering, why'd you stop it? Why'd you stop it?

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Oh dude, Herb was getting booed out of the arena there.

• 50:56Joe Rogan?

  I remember this. I remember that. And Tim is complaining. Like, come on, bro. Like you know what just, he has to know what just happened.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  Oh, he knows.

• 51:04Joe Rogan?

  He's got, he's just such an animal. He wanted to fight with a broken arm, which is. Which, you know, literally, you might have to get it amputated if you did that.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 51:12Joe Rogan?

  Like, who knows what kind of damage you would have after that.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  You could lose your arm.

• 51:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  You know, that's, you know, this is where, but you'll get people all the time, you know. I mean, some of the commentators on some of the shows, you know, oh, if he wants to fight, let him fight. It's like, shut up.

• 51:26Joe Rogan?

  Shut up.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Okay. Yeah, this is, this is not.

• 51:29Joe Rogan?

  You gotta protect a fighter from himself sometimes.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Exactly. This is not life and death.

• 51:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  If you lose a fight, I know it sucks, but it just sucks and it's not life and death. It's okay.

• 51:38Joe Rogan?

  Crazy situations like Carlos Olberg, who knocks out Yur Prahaska with a clearly blown out knee.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 51:44Joe Rogan?

  Where you're like, if that went to the round, at the end of the round, they would have probably stopped the fight.

• 51:48Speaker 03

  Well, think about what Santos, right? He ended up fighting John Jones with two torn out ACLs and PCLs, right?

• 51:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:53Speaker 03

  That's John Jones.

• 51:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:55Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  And gave him a good fight.

• 51:57Joe Rogan?

  He gave him a great fight. I think that was a split decision.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Oh, it was.

• 52:00Joe Rogan?

  Which is nuts. It's nuts. Like, he could have won. If he had, like, one more incompetent judge.

• 52:07Speaker 01

  Now we're going to incompetent judges. Now we're gonna have problems.

• 52:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, whoever was judging the Usyk fight was incompetent. Those, those people were ridiculous. The, the fact that they didn't have Rico ahead is crazy.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:18Joe Rogan?

  They just, I think when you got a guy like Usyk, who's arguably the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time. He's definitely in the conversation. And then you have so much money involved in him being undefeated. And so, and whether the referees corrupt or not, they know. Whether the judges are corrupt or not, they know. And if they fuck things up for everybody, you know, there's like, there's some weird shenanigans that go on in boxing. You remember that lady that scored, um, uh, it was a Pacquiao fight against Tim Bradley? She scored, she was one of the ones that she scored a bunch of fights.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  I thought you were gonna talk Canelo against Triple G.

• 52:56Joe Rogan?

  There was a Canelo one that she scored bad? Yeah, there's, she scored a bunch of fights where you're like, what the fuck is this? And then you have to realize about betting props. Yeah.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  Adely Bird.

• 53:07Joe Rogan?

  No, no, it's not Adely Bird, though. No.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  Adely Bird was, was the Canelo versus Triple G.

• 53:13Joe Rogan?

  Very nice lady.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  She's a, like, I'm gonna give her props in this. First off, she doesn't do a whole lot of boxing, but she does do a lot of, MMA does a lot of the UFC still. That woman watches more fights, goes to more trainings. She puts in all the time that you could imagine to always try to get better. She is asking questions all the time. Now, if you're gonna sit there and say, well, has she, you know, can she roll? No, she can't. But she knows what, you know, if you, if you say, okay, what's this? She'll tell you.

• 53:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  What's this? She knows it.

• 53:47Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  She puts in that time, but, you know, you're always gonna have the, there are certain fights, no matter what, they're always gonna be there, you know, as the judge, you always, you're trying to do your best.

• 53:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but there's this one lady where she was involved in quite a few, like, ridiculous ones. And the Tim Bradley, Manny Pacquiao one was a big one. And then they looked at some other ones, and then she stepped away from it. The problem is, and I'm not accusing this lady or anybody of this, but I'm saying that some people have done this in the past, is that all you have to do is make it a split decision. All you have to do is be one shitty judge that even though it was clearly for this guy, you say it's for that guy, and someone's making a ton of loot.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Especially in this day and age with betting.

• 54:29Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent, man. The UFC has a real problem.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:32Joe Rogan?

  There's a real problem with quite a few fights. The FBI has looked into quite a few fights. And there's, there's one that they focused on in the beginning, because they knew that there was some improper betting, but now they're focused on a bunch of other ones as well.

• 54:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. It, but it, I'm gonna say this about the judge.

• 54:47Joe Rogan?

  To think that you can get away with it, John, to think that you're gonna be able to get away with it is just fucking stupid.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  You're an idiot. As the fighter, you're a fool. But if you, if you, if you were around the judging, especially in the UFC, because it's mainly a lot of the same guys, you know, they, these guys are on text links, they are consistently, every, Joe, every UFC fight, my phone blows up. It blows up with fighters, it blows up from other officials, asking, what about that? What did you see? What do you think? And it's because, look, there is, at times... We get media and we get, you know, people, you know, talking about our fights that call robberies when there's no robbery. It's a close fight.

• 55:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 55:34Speaker 01

  And if you-

• 55:34Joe Rogan?

  And you're a guy, you wanted your guy to win and he lost.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  Hello, did not win.

• 55:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  Fucking robbery. You know, I, I pointed it out to him. I had him sit one time. Hey, sit where the judge sits. Because you get one view. You, as the commentator, you get that beautiful monitor that's in front of you. There's times when you're watching the fight live and there's times when you're watching the monitor.

• 55:54Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Because the angles change. As the judge, now they put the monitor there for the judges and, and like the UFC puts a great monitor there for them. But we didn't always have that.

• 56:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  And you didn't always, many times you had the worst seat in the house.

• 56:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  To be able to judge a fight.

• 56:09Joe Rogan?

  Especially if there's a post in front of you.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  And it's so different than what people think and it's, when you are the one that's putting your name on that scorecard, you're signing it, and you know this counts. It's everything. It is everything to you to, to be right. You want to be right.

• 56:28Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  But many times what you're seeing, and that's why they're at the three different points and that's why something, you know, people get into this, whoa, it was a split decision. Split decision is not always bad.

• 56:37Joe Rogan?

  Do you think there'd be a benefit in having five judges instead of three?

• 56:39Speaker 01

  No.

• 56:40Joe Rogan?

  No?

• 56:40Speaker 01

  I've worked with it, I've done it too many times. It doesn't change anything.

• 56:43Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't?

• 56:44Speaker 01

  Doesn't change anything. I'm just being honest. If it did, I would say, I, yeah, we should do it.

• 56:48Joe Rogan?

  But if you have two bad judges and three good ones, the right guy wins.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  Why do you have two bad judges? That's the question.

• 56:54Joe Rogan?

  That is the question, but when you're on the road, let's be honest. When we're on the road, we do it, let's not even name a state. But we show up and we have to use these regular local guys. There have been issues.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  I'm not saying there haven't.

• 57:05Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 57:06Speaker 01

  I'm not saying there have.

• 57:06Joe Rogan?

  There are bad judges, unfortunately.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 57:09Joe Rogan?

  I love cops, there's bad cops.

• 57:11Speaker 01

  There are.

• 57:11Joe Rogan?

  I love dentists.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  There's bad dentists.

• 57:14Joe Rogan?

  There's some fucking people that do surgeries that don't have to do them. You know what I mean?

• 57:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:17Joe Rogan?

  It's like, it doesn't, it's not saying that the people that do it and do a great job shouldn't be supported and praised and they definitely should. But it's also, it's like, it would benefit, I think, everybody to have a few more opinions. Like, I like verdict. Have you seen Verdict MMA?

• 57:31Speaker 01

  No, I know Verdict MMA. I bumped them up a bunch of times.

• 57:34Joe Rogan?

  I think they're accurate like 99% of the time. I, I look at the verdict score, I'm like, most of the time, out of 100 fights, most of the time I agree with the verdict score.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  There's many times though, you can take a look, look at this one. When I started teaching the command course and everything, people, oh, you got to teach this. I'm teaching people to take my job.

• 57:52Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  In the end, I would-

• 57:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, they need a lot of referees luckily.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  And they need a lot of judges.

• 57:57Joe Rogan?

  But they also need a lot of referees for the big ones. Where you can't fuck this up.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 58:02Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean?

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:03Joe Rogan?

  Like, that's where-

• 58:04Speaker 01

  It is. It's important, but it's not the job that people think it is. It is not as easy as people think it is.

• 58:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's definitely not easy.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  And it's definitely-

• 58:13Joe Rogan?

  It's the hardest job next to being a fighter.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:15Joe Rogan?

  I think it's fighters number one, referees number two.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  Uh, but, yeah, yes and no. And you're right, as far as, fighting's much more difficult. As far as, you know, what it does to your body and, and what you have to put out into it and all that. Way more difficult.

• 58:29Joe Rogan?

  Also, the consequences of fucking it up.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  Boom.

• 58:31Joe Rogan?

  I don't have the consequences of, if I make a bad calls as a commentator, it's like, oh, Joe's an idiot.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 58:36Joe Rogan?

  That doesn't mean anything. Like, nobody loses money. Like, somebody could lose half their fucking purse, which I hate, by the way.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:42Joe Rogan?

  I don't like, I don't like the whole win bonus. Everyone's trying to win-

• 58:46Speaker 01

  Can't stand it.

• 58:46Joe Rogan?

  Can't stand it. You should get paid, you're a prizefighter.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 58:49Joe Rogan?

  You should get paid to compete. This is the number.

• 58:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:52Joe Rogan?

  Whether it's 200,000 or two, it shouldn't be dependent upon judges' decisions.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  I'm-

• 58:56Joe Rogan?

  It should be dependent upon, you showed up, you fought your fucking ass off, you're trying to win. If you win, you're gonna make more money. No one's trying to lose. Right? So, it's like, what are we doing? This episode is brought to you by BlueChew. I'm sure you've heard of BlueChew by now. But let me tell you what they've been up to. They've been on a mission to get you bricked up for years, and now, the number one brand for better sex. Over 5 million happy men have bought BlueChew for better sex. And you know what? Girls love the results too. Their new four-in-one chewable, BlueChew Gold, is for performance and passion. Two ingredients maximize blood flow for stronger, longer-lasting boners, and two, get you in the mood.

• 59:39Joe Rogan?

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• 1:00:06Speaker 03

  I'm okay with the win bonus, but it's gotta be more skewed towards the show money. So give me like, let's just, I'm using a round number of a hundred thousand.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  Eighty, twenty?

• 1:00:13Speaker 03

  Eighty, twenty, right? And then, then you give me another bonus for a finishing bonus. If I give a knockout, you give me another twenty or fifty.

• 1:00:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're doing that now. The UFC's doing finishing bonuses.

• 1:00:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:00:21Joe Rogan?

  But I just don't like win bonuses. I think you, you know, the fact that there have been bad decisions and guys have lost half their fucking purse when they need it. And it's, it's, you got robbed. That's when you really got robbed.

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:00:33Joe Rogan?

  Not just the decision, but you got robbed financially, which is fucking crazy to me.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:37Joe Rogan?

  I think fighters should get, I don't think they fight harder. I don't think anybody fights harder.

• 1:00:41Speaker 03

  They wanna win.

• 1:00:42Joe Rogan?

  They wanna win.

• 1:00:42Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 1:00:43Joe Rogan?

  No one's fighting harder to get a bonus.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  It's just something sitting out there.

• 1:00:47Joe Rogan?

  And if they are, they probably shouldn't be fighting in the UFC anyway.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  Well, I always say-

• 1:00:50Joe Rogan?

  Because they're not at an elite, like, world-class level if they're fighting harder for a bonus.

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  If you're in the top fifteen, you're not gonna fight harder because you're getting paid more. You've, you've worked your way there to get there. Your pride is too involved, your ego's involved, you wanna be-

• 1:01:02Joe Rogan?

  You're too fucking good.

• 1:01:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, you wanna show everyone you're the best.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  I've always said, like, if you ask a fighter before the fight, "Hey, how much are you gonna win for that?" If they're gonna get a forty, forty, or they're gonna get a fifty, fifty, they're gonna say, "Hundred thousand." They've already mentally spent that money. And trust me, it's always they-

• 1:01:16Speaker 03

  It's true.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  They've, they've, they've got that win bonus in there.

• 1:01:20Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 1:01:20Joe Rogan?

  Kind of impulsive.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's-

• 1:01:22Joe Rogan?

  Fighters aren't the best at saving cash.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  I know. You know, so, yeah, it's, but, you take a look, you know, when you sit there and say-

• 1:01:29Joe Rogan?

  You know who's good at saving money, though, is Strickland. You would think he'd be the most reckless guy. Very smart, very smart with his money.

• 1:01:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, he doesn't buy, like, most of these guys are buying jeans and shirts and glasses.

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  No, no, they're buying-

• 1:01:40Speaker 03

  This dude's buying Wranglers and fucking boots.

• 1:01:42Joe Rogan?

  He wears the same thing every day.

• 1:01:44Speaker 03

  White beater tank tops. He's in the same shit, doesn't care.

• 1:01:46Joe Rogan?

  But he saves his money, man. He's got a lot of money saved up.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Good for him.

• 1:01:49Speaker 03

  Learning how to be-

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  Smart.

• 1:01:51Speaker 03

  Learning how to be frugal is very important, especially if you're an athlete. Any type of athlete, doesn't matter.

• 1:01:55Joe Rogan?

  Especially if you're an athlete like Strickland, who still rides a motorcycle.

• 1:01:57Speaker 03

  That's like a-

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  I still ride a motorcycle.

• 1:01:59Joe Rogan?

  He still?

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:02:00Speaker 03

  You didn't learn anything from Frank Mir when you broke his femur, like, I'm surprised fighters.

• 1:02:05Joe Rogan?

  Frank Mir breaking his femurs was what kept me from getting a motorcycle license.

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:08Joe Rogan?

  That was the last one.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:02:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, two friends crashed, one friend wiped out and fucked up his shoulder, and then Frank Mir got T-boned, and I was like, "I'm out."

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  Well, comes down, there's the old saying, there's two types of motorcycle riders. Ones that have been down and ones that are going down.

• 1:02:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  And that's just the truth.

• 1:02:22Joe Rogan?

  That's the problem. It's I felt like I'm hurting myself so many days a week just doing jujitsu. They're like, they're doing that on top of that. It's like, I don't want to risk.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:02:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  Especially if you haven't been doing it, because there's ways to ride. And there's, you, you don't ride, like, you'll see, you go, I can watch people on the road and I go, that dude doesn't know how to ride. That dude, and it's like.

• 1:02:42Joe Rogan?

  You can just buy a bike, that's what's scary. You get a license, figure out how to ride it, buy a bike and you fucking. You know, it's like, you could go to a, a, a car dealership right now and pick up a Corvette ZR1. You got a 1,000 horsepower car. Ride it and like, who knows if you know how to really drive that thing.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Who says that you're prepared to drive that thing?

• 1:03:00Joe Rogan?

  That's a fighter jet on wheels. It's fucking insane. And you just give it to some kid.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  But it's awesome.

• 1:03:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Your parents are rich, so you have a fucking fighter jet on wheels? Like, this is nuts.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  But you, you know, what you're talking about, Sean Strickland with, how many cars do you need? You know, I, I tell fighters all that, how many cars do you need? You know, dude, I, I've had arguments with Rampage, because Rampage's got 8 million cars. And I go, dude, how many cars can you put your ass in at one time? Right? And it's like, you're, you're blowing through money that you, you can't get back.

• 1:03:29Joe Rogan?

  You can't get back.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  You know, and it's like.

• 1:03:30Joe Rogan?

  One of the things about cars, it's depending on what kind of cars you have. Some cars are.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  Oh, if you could, if you're gonna do an investment, that's fine.

• 1:03:36Joe Rogan?

  Muscle cars, shit like that. They're always worth money.

• 1:03:38Speaker 03

  I think if you're a fighter, you need to take a page out of Forrest Griffin's book, right? With the Scion that he won for the Ultimate Fighter One. He drove that thing into the ground.

• 1:03:47Speaker 03

  Door handles were off. He had to roll the window down to open the door from the outside, like.

• 1:03:51Joe Rogan?

  He's such a character.

• 1:03:52Speaker 03

  You know, but, I mean, that's how you have to live. If you're gonna be a professional athlete or professional fighter, that's how you have to live, especially early in your career. You don't know how long it's gonna last.

• 1:04:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, also, there's something to be said for the comforts of nice things and luxuries kind of slowing you down a little bit. Not everybody, not, doesn't seem to do it to Aron Sarukian.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:04:11Joe Rogan?

  That fucking dude, he, he breaks the whole rulebook.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:15Joe Rogan?

  Rich kid, fights like a demon, built like a Greek god.

• 1:04:18Speaker 03

  He is such a stud, man.

• 1:04:20Joe Rogan?

  Constantly competing in wrestling, doing, doing everything.

• 1:04:23Speaker 03

  He's wrestling this weekend, here at Roth Wrestling in Arlington.

• 1:04:26Joe Rogan?

  Animal.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, dude, I saw, when I saw him, I said, just keep doing what you're doing, dude.

• 1:04:30Speaker 03

  He's killing it.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  Just keep doing what you're doing.

• 1:04:32Speaker 03

  I think the best thing that could have happened to him is not getting a title fight. That guy's built. No.

• 1:04:37Joe Rogan?

  I mean, he's capitalized on the bad situation that he put himself in, but it was also the headbutt with Dan Hooker.

• 1:04:42Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:04:43Joe Rogan?

  That was fucking crazy.

• 1:04:44Speaker 03

  Well, because you're, as you're, as a promoter, right? You could have cost me all this money if you get, if he gets cut.

• 1:04:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He gets cut, they pull the fight.

• 1:04:50Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:04:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God. Can you imagine?

• 1:04:52Speaker 03

  Like, come on, knucklehead.

• 1:04:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, stop.

• 1:04:54Speaker 03

  But, but I love watching him fight.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  What he's been doing with RAF, what he's been doing with his Nina drama stuff and all that stuff. Hey, keep going, keep going, man. People are talking about you.

• 1:05:04Joe Rogan?

  Very smart. And he is the most interesting contender for Ilija Toporia.

• 1:05:08Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:05:08Joe Rogan?

  Without a doubt.

• 1:05:09Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 1:05:09Joe Rogan?

  Other than Justin, which is gonna be wild. But I think him, the skills that he has, the wrestling that he has, and the size, he's a lot bigger than Ilija.

• 1:05:19Speaker 03

  You know, I, I asked, I asked DC and Dustin both yesterday on my show, I wanna, why do you think people are over, overlooking Justin?

• 1:05:29Joe Rogan?

  That's a good question. I mean.

• 1:05:32Speaker 03

  When I look at Gage, I'm like, he's got all the tools and the weapons. Ilija Toporia is heavy on the lead leg. Justin Gage, he's got a heavy leg kick. He's got a great uppercut. He's fighting the shorter fighter in Ilija Toporia.

• 1:05:42Joe Rogan?

  He's a bigger guy.

• 1:05:42Speaker 03

  He's a way bigger guy.

• 1:05:43Joe Rogan?

  He's not making 145 ever.

• 1:05:45Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:05:46Joe Rogan?

  He's a much bigger guy. He's a really good wrestler, and he's a nasty striker, and he's also a, a kind of a fucking savage.

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  No, he's not kind of.

• 1:05:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, like, like a real savage, not like pretending. Like, when he fought Michael Johnson in his UFC debut, he just threw himself at Michael Johnson. And he did the same thing with Patty Pimblett.

• 1:06:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:05Joe Rogan?

  The Patty Pimblett fight, he could have fought that fight a lot cleaner.

• 1:06:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:08Joe Rogan?

  And he just said, fuck you, I'm just gonna walk you down and just blast you every chance I get and break you up. And that's what he did. And he's a fucking scary dude, man. Justin's a scary dude. When he's on, and this is The Last Dance, right? So you know that he's gonna be hyper-focused for this fight.

• 1:06:24Speaker 03

  I just can't see why people are overlooking him. Like, they just look at him, like, oh, he doesn't have a chance, gonna get knocked out. I think they're taking away from what.

• 1:06:30Joe Rogan?

  It's just cause Ilija is so good.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Cause Ilija has done it to.

• 1:06:33Joe Rogan?

  Everybody.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  All these guys that are also really good.

• 1:06:37Joe Rogan?

  Got three all time greats.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  Yes, in a row, in a row.

• 1:06:41Joe Rogan?

  Three in a row is nuts.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  Max Holloway, Alexander Volkanovski and fucking Du Bronx, fucking Charles Olivera, that's

• 1:06:48Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:06:48Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 1:06:49Joe Rogan?

  Three KOs.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:06:50Speaker 03

  I don't hold it against him, but also is it kind of somewhere, is there an asterisk next to it a little bit because Volkanovski coming off the head kick knockout loss? Max Holloway, Max Holloway cutting from 55 to 45 after putting all the weight on, then getting knocked out. The one, the only one I would say no is Charles because he goes up, fights Charles, Charles, you know.

• 1:07:08Joe Rogan?

  Charles, no. Max Holloway, yes, because he cut the, cut the weight, but that was his decision.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:07:13Joe Rogan?

  And no one should have let Volkanovski take that fight. You, you got head kicked four months ago into a coma, there's no fucking chance you should be taking a fight with the scariest puncher in the division.

• 1:07:22Speaker 03

  Is that a coach's corner, family decision?

• 1:07:24Joe Rogan?

  It's him.

• 1:07:25Speaker 03

  He's an animal. He is an animal.

• 1:07:26Joe Rogan?

  He's a fucking animal. He thinks he could do it.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, but see, that's when you have to have the people.

• 1:07:32Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  Maybe in your corner, in your family are saying, hey.

• 1:07:35Joe Rogan?

  I think it's honestly in your family. I think you need like someone who loves you, someone who.

• 1:07:40Speaker 01

  Someone who is just absolutely totally honest saying, you can't do this, this fast. I'm not saying you can't do it, but you have to do these things.

• 1:07:49Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  To be able to make it to where you have a ability to take a shot like you used to because it's diminished at this moment.

• 1:07:57Joe Rogan?

  Not just that, you have to take into consideration that he gets knocked out and then he goes right into camp. Okay. So you're not going to rest your brain.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:08:04Joe Rogan?

  You're just not. Even if you're just wrestling, you're not resting your brain.

• 1:08:08Speaker 03

  You can't. Anytime your body, your body temperature rises.

• 1:08:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:08:12Speaker 03

  You're damaging your brain, especially if you haven't let it recover yet.

• 1:08:15Joe Rogan?

  And there's no way he let it recover. I mean, he got shinned, shinned to the dome by one of the biggest guys that ever fought at 55. Islam's huge for 55.

• 1:08:25Speaker 03

  Six foot tall.

• 1:08:26Joe Rogan?

  And he fucking takes the fight on 11 days notice with no camp and he's eating barbecue and fucking drinking Foster's.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  See that.

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  But like you.

• 1:08:37Speaker 03

  It goes to his mentality though.

• 1:08:38Joe Rogan?

  He's an animal. He's a fucking, he's a fucking all-time great.

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  Oh, no doubt about it.

• 1:08:42Joe Rogan?

  He's an all-time great and you know, when you, you go back and look at his fights with Max, like he was the first guy to figure out Max.

• 1:08:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:48Joe Rogan?

  You know, and then you look at what he did cleaning out the division. I mean, my God, I would have loved to seen a fair shake. I would have loved to see, I would have never advised him to take that fight with Islam on 11 days notice. I don't care what the fucking UFC says.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:09:01Joe Rogan?

  Go John Jones. What does John Jones do? John Jones had an opportunity to fight Chael Sonnen with very little notice.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:09:08Joe Rogan?

  He was already in shape.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  Dan Henderson fight.

• 1:09:10Joe Rogan?

  Nope, won't fight him.

• 1:09:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:11Joe Rogan?

  Not gonna fight him unless I have a full camp preparing just for him. I'm not giving anybody any fucking chances. Period. See ya. Bye. I'm the champ. And if Volkanovski had that mindset, he would have never fought Islam unless he went through a full camp again because he almost beat him the first time.

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:27Joe Rogan?

  It was a really close fight the first time. The second fight, he comes in, he's a little soft, he's not in shape, his mind's not right.

• 1:09:33Speaker 01

  It's also, it's also the difference in the weight cut for Islam.

• 1:09:35Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  Islam was on 30, 30 some hours compared to.

• 1:09:39Joe Rogan?

  Right. He's on Australia time the first time, the second time, he's like fully rehydrated. Much more time to recover.

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:09:46Joe Rogan?

  Much more dangerous.

• 1:09:47Speaker 03

  I think it was more of the expectation that Volk thought, I'll just do the same thing I did in the first fight.

• 1:09:51Joe Rogan?

  Of course, because he's an animal.

• 1:09:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:53Joe Rogan?

  That's where you need your brother. You need someone to go, dude, I love you. You're an animal. You're one of the greatest of all time. But the brain is the brain. Like there's just certain, you don't want to fight with a broken hand, right? Okay. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean your hands not, your head's not damaged. Your head's damaged.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  That's the difference though, is exactly what you're saying is, the brain doesn't hurt.

• 1:10:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:10:13Speaker 01

  You know, it doesn't have nerve endings. And so you can't sit there and say, oh man, I've got this problem. Until you end up concussed.

• 1:10:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  Until that now all of a sudden the headaches are occurring and the bright lights start to bother you and all these things start to add up and you're starting to get mad about things that you can't understand, why am I getting mad right now? Those are the telltale signs of, hey, I need to step away for a while.

• 1:10:35Joe Rogan?

  Do you remember when Travis Luder fought, um...

• 1:10:39Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:40Joe Rogan?

  Who was it?

• 1:10:41Speaker 01

  Eastman.

• 1:10:41Joe Rogan?

  Eastman, Marvin Eastman. Marvin Eastman. And he caught Marvin Eastman with a punch, which was just a regular punch.

• 1:10:46Speaker 01

  Just nothing.

• 1:10:47Joe Rogan?

  The Eastman went down. And then we found out later, oh, he had got KO'd really bad, and I think by Tito.

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:10:53Joe Rogan?

  In training.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:10:55Joe Rogan?

  And it's like, that's, that's it.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  He'd been KO'd twice.

• 1:10:58Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  Twice in training.

• 1:11:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  You know.

• 1:11:02Joe Rogan?

  These guys are crazy.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  And you look and you go, and that's why he went out the way he did.

• 1:11:06Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent. Cause it was weird.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  Off of something he never would have been hurt by.

• 1:11:10Joe Rogan?

  It was weird.

• 1:11:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:11Joe Rogan?

  It was weird. It was like a straight left. They caught him at the end of the punch.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  End of the punch, hardly moved him.

• 1:11:15Joe Rogan?

  Out cold, yeah. Just fell back. Yeah, cause his brain was damaged.

• 1:11:18Speaker 03

  You gotta give your time, a full, a full time of recover. Forty-five days, up to, up to six months, eating more fats, more avocados, things like that to help your brain recover.

• 1:11:26Joe Rogan?

  When Juan Manuel Marquez knocked out Pacquiao, Freddie Roach said, you're not doing anything for a year.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 1:11:33Joe Rogan?

  One year. And he got his chin back. Took that year off and he came back, actually recovered. But Freddie, being a long time boxer himself and being around the game and seeing guys getting knocked out and seeing guys jumping back in too quick, he knew.

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  Freddie being one himself.

• 1:11:47Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  Look, Freddie, you know, Freddie, people don't realize Freddie was actually a good, a good boxer. He was, he had a, you know, a good amateur record. He was doing well in the pros. Do you, you remember who his, his trainer was? His trainer was Eddie Futch. Eddie Futch, who was the second trainer for Joe Frazier after Yance Durham died. And Joe Frazier, he was there for the Thrilla in Manila with Ali and stuff like that. Yeah, and Eddie Futch told Freddie Roach, "Son, you're taking too many shots. You're getting hit with too many good ones. You're not responding the same way. You're done. You gotta stop." And Freddie Roach got rid of Eddie Futch and continued to fight as a professional and just kept getting knocked out.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  And that was the end of his career. And then he became the trainer and, and, you know, you could take a look at a lot of the issues that he has. But as much as you're looking at, you know, you're looking at that with Freddie. Take a look at his brother Pepper, who took a lot less, is worse than Freddie.

• 1:12:45Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:12:45Speaker 01

  I mean, Pepper's gone now, but, I mean. Headshots and trauma to the brain, especially when you don't give it the opportunity to rest and heal, it will absolutely take and burn your career.

• 1:13:00Joe Rogan?

  No doubt, no doubt. And there's no way to really tell. There's so many guys that are damaged and we don't know because you meet them backstage like, "Hey, how you doing? Everything's great." But meanwhile, it's not great. These guys are struggling. They don't remember what you just said.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:13:15Joe Rogan?

  And then they're talking to people, they repeat things over and over and over again.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  And you can watch, you know, I hate to say it. There was a fighter, fought in the UFC, fought in bare-knuckle boxing now. He's now training guys. And it's Joey Beltran, okay? Had a decent career, heavy puncher, took a lot of damage. And I'm just watching Joey Beltran walk off of stairs and having to go one step at a time with each foot. And you look and you go, "Damn." You know, and you know, "Hey, he's been altered." You know, he's a great guy, but it's like, that's what all of this does in the end.

• 1:13:52Joe Rogan?

  No doubt.

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  You've got to understand that you, I always, I try to tell fighters, "Look, you're a Ferrari." You know? You want to be a Lamborghini, you're a Lamborghini. But first off, it's like, you know, the whole John Jones thing is, you know, be careful of what you put in its gas tank. Okay? Same with, you know, other guys. You know, I don't mean to pick out on John, but you know, he's told the story of what he was doing. And so be careful what you put in the gas tank and realize you can only crash that car so many times before it's a piece of junk.

• 1:14:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  And, and it's hard to get that through that this is not going to last forever and I'm not going to be the same forever.

• 1:14:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:31Speaker 01

  They just don't see it until all of a sudden it's there.

• 1:14:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's why it's a real bummer when you see coaches that you know love the fighters and they haven't stepped in. They haven't done anything and they're, they're keeping. Training these guys.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  Cause they'll lose them.

• 1:14:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, exactly. And that's what's horrible. It's horrible that you, you know, you have, there has to be the kind of relationship where you get to a fork in the road and you go, this is what this is.

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:53Joe Rogan?

  Like, it doesn't mean that your life is over.

• 1:14:55Speaker 01

  No, it's the start of your next life.

• 1:14:57Joe Rogan?

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• 1:17:06Joe Rogan?

  Speak to this because you know, you fought at the highest level for a long fucking time and you stepped away healthy.

• 1:17:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I did. I had this conversation with Dustin yesterday. I just said, hey, like, I feel like you could still do it. You're right there. Like, you're one fight away from fighting for another title again. And he's like, it was just the time. And I can, I completely respect that. I said, because he's having time now with his two kids, his wife, he's enjoying his moment. He just got done lifting. He was looking swole. And I was like, it was, I was like, it's good to see you came on the show. He was all sweaty a little bit like, you know, he's enjoying this next chapter of his life.

• 1:17:41Joe Rogan?

  I like when guys go out like Khabib. They just say, they offer him a bunch of money. He's like, nope. Good. Did it. Done. Bye.

• 1:17:48Speaker 01

  And I hate when people try to rag him on it. It drives me crazy. They sit there and go, oh, yeah, but you know, you know, you could have done this. You could have done that.

• 1:17:56Joe Rogan?

  Fools.

• 1:17:56Speaker 03

  He gives zero fucks. He doesn't care. He doesn't look at it.

• 1:18:00Joe Rogan?

  Look at what he did. That's all you need to know. He dominated people that nobody dominated. And he did it in a crazy way. Like, speaking of Barboza, I remember that fight where Barboza had that thousand yard stare.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  So do I.

• 1:18:13Joe Rogan?

  In the first round. He's like, he was like, oh, my God, this is never gonna go my way.

• 1:18:17Speaker 03

  It's not. It wasn't gonna. I actually looked something up the other day. Khabib is the only guy who's never bled inside the UFC octagon.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 1:18:27Speaker 03

  He's the only fighter to never bleed inside the octagon.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  What have I told you?

• 1:18:30Speaker 03

  That's wild. He's the most dominant fighter inside. John Jones being, you know, considered the greatest.

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  The greatest as far as you're gonna say, who's done it better as far as all the championship fights and all of that stuff? John Jones is the guy. The most dominant fighter I ever stepped into that cage with was Khabib.

• 1:18:51Joe Rogan?

  Look at this. Khabib never visibly bled, was severely bruised, or was knocked down during his professional MMA career.

• 1:18:56Speaker 01

  Who's the only person you ever saw hurt him?

• 1:18:58Joe Rogan?

  Connor.

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 1:18:59Joe Rogan?

  No. Well, Gleason Tebow hurt him a little bit.

• 1:19:01Speaker 03

  You can say Michael Johnson.

• 1:19:02Speaker 01

  Michael Johnson. Michael Johnson had one where he gave a little bit of a, because I was doing that fight.

• 1:19:07Joe Rogan?

  That's right.

• 1:19:08Speaker 01

  And he had, I was like, oh.

• 1:19:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's right. Michael Johnson caught him.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  He sucked it right back up.

• 1:19:12Speaker 03

  I said, I go, Khabib, I go, you hurt? He's like, brother, come on. You know I'm not gonna hurt.

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  You talked about, you know, Michael Johnson against Gachie. You know, and after that fight, because I did that fight and I told Justin, hey, congratulations. That was a great performance. You got hurt. You went through it. He goes, I never got hurt. I go, go watch the video.

• 1:19:33Speaker 03

  I never got hurt.

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  It was like, I never got hurt. Oh, yeah, you got hurt.

• 1:19:36Joe Rogan?

  Those guys went to war.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 1:19:38Joe Rogan?

  The crazy thing was when Khabib was on top of Michael Johnson and he was saying, come on, brother. You know, I need deserved title shot. He was saying, I don't want to do this to you. I don't want to. And then when he almost, when he got him in the commor, I was like, please tap.

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  Oh, dude, you're saying, please tap? What do you think I'm saying?

• 1:19:54Joe Rogan?

  It was so, I think the only reason why it didn't break is Khabib was probably being kind. Like, he's talking to him.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  The whole time, the entire fight.

• 1:20:02Joe Rogan?

  You have to give up. He's saying, you have to give up. Come on, bro.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  You know, I need to fight for title.

• 1:20:08Speaker 03

  It's my destiny. I have to fight for the title.

• 1:20:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I need to fight for the title. You know this. I deserve this. You agree? He's like, you agree? He's saying this while he's beating his ass. Michael Johnson's like, huh? I mean, he was just a motherfucker, dude. So, everybody agrees.

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  Everybody agrees.

• 1:20:23Joe Rogan?

  As he's beating his ass, he's saying, see, everybody agrees. Well, how about when he was on top of Connor and he'd say, let's talk now? Always punching him in the face. Come on, let's talk. Let's talk now.

• 1:20:32Speaker 03

  I loved it.

• 1:20:33Joe Rogan?

  He was a monster, dude. Khabib was, he was just so relentless.

• 1:20:37Speaker 01

  But it's everything, it's everything to do with his lifestyle. And this is where, this is where you get into, you know, you've seen it too many times, champions. And there's been great champions, but when you've become the champion, everything in your life changes. The things that come your way change. You know, you get, you get offered things that you didn't get offered in the same way before. You get all these opportunities and all of a sudden, instead of going to the gym, you're spending the day on a plane, going to a location to do something. Sometimes it's for the promotion that you're working for. Sometimes it's for the UFC or whatever promotion there is. And because they're asking you, so you're missing that day of training. And then you're getting back on the plane, you're coming back the next day. And that's another day that you're missing. He never missed training.

• 1:21:21Speaker 01

  He never changed his lifestyle. He did everything the same. And that's why he had the results he got.

• 1:21:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, for a super successful guy, he's still so humble. He's so like, normal to talk to. He's so balanced and...

• 1:21:36Joe Rogan?

  It's that discipline that he has.

• 1:21:37Speaker 03

  He's exactly.

• 1:21:38Joe Rogan?

  His religious beliefs, like, he's just so, so rock solid.

• 1:21:42Speaker 03

  The thing about him is that he tries to make sure he puts the guys that had helped get him there, tries to help them get elevated as well, you know, and that's,

• 1:21:52Speaker 03

  it, it, kind of what I'm trying to say is that how you've done with your guys, with your group of comics and friends, you guys all lift each other up, he does the same thing with the group of friends that he has. So not just like myself and DC and Islam and those guys, I mean, like, when they go to travel for events, he put, you know, he takes care of the house, he makes sure that it's all organized, makes sure that there's enough room for everyone, there's food. You know, obviously, all the guys, other guys chip in, but it's like, he's the one that's kind of organizing everything. He's the leader of that team, and I'd love seeing somebody that puts that much effort into guys that helped get him there as well.

• 1:22:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, he's a real leader.

• 1:22:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:24Joe Rogan?

  He's a real leader, and now that he's coaching, I mean, you imagine you're a kid and you, you need motivation, you're literally being coached by one of the greatest combat sports athletes to ever walk on God's earth.

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  And, and one that did it right the entire time.

• 1:22:38Joe Rogan?

  The entire time, and is all about discipline and hard work, like, you couldn't pick a better camp, especially if you're a grappling-based guy, you know, like, send him to Dagestan two, three years.

• 1:22:50Joe Rogan?

  That's the greatest meme of all time.

• 1:22:52Speaker 03

  I think what separates, you know, Islam and Habib and that whole group is that there's never a moment where they're not training. Like, I was in Chicago at one of the events for Bellator, and we were there, and I was headed down to the bar after the event, they were headed to the gym, passing me in the elevator, they said, "Come up and talk to me." So I was up there for an hour, just chatting with them while they're riding bikes, you know, lifting weights, getting their workout in, and everyone else is down at the bar drinking.

• 1:23:14Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:23:15Speaker 03

  You know, and so it's, it doesn't matter, they, they don't even look at it, they don't think about it, they just go right to the gym, they get their sweat on, they're up there for two hours. It's not, not, it's not like this intensity for 25 minutes, yeah.

• 1:23:25Joe Rogan?

  Right, they're just working.

• 1:23:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then-

• 1:23:27Joe Rogan?

  They're never letting themselves get out of shape, ever.

• 1:23:28Speaker 03

  And then you see them in the morning, right, when they were living in, when they were training out at AK in the mornings, you'd see them at the, at the track in the mornings, they would just jog, but then there was little stations where you do sit-ups and push-ups, they would do those, and they would do it for two, three miles, and they'd come to the gym at noon and they'd do their workout, sometimes hard, sometimes not, but they were always training, always working, and that's what separates them. They're not out at the club until two, three in the morning, then trying to recover the next day, they're not drinking, they're not smoking, they're not doing-

• 1:23:53Joe Rogan?

  The no drinking is huge.

• 1:23:55Speaker 01

  Huge.

• 1:23:56Joe Rogan?

  If there's one thing that fucks fighters up more than anything, it's partying. Oh, yeah. Drinking especially, I guess Coke, but I don't have a lot of experience with guys that I knew that were doing Coke. But I have a lot of experience with guys that were drinkers. And you would see them in the morning on like, they would go out Saturday night, Sunday they'd be fucked up. They show up Monday to train and they just looked like shit. Yeah. Because they had been partying too hard just two days ago. And you don't think that that's gonna make a big difference, but if you're getting drunk on Saturday night, that's days before you're back to baseline. Days. You know, and you can get away with it when you're 23. Yeah. A little bit, kind of, but are you? Because you're probably not as good as you would have been. And then maybe you're gonna get hit with some shots you wouldn't have get hit with, or you've been gonna get tapped when you wouldn't have got tapped. Yeah.

• 1:24:40Speaker 01

  See, and you take a look, that's the big difference if you go back and look at Habib's career. Go back and look at his first fight in the UFC and look at how bad. And I'm serious, how bad his standup was.

• 1:24:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, it wasn't the best.

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  Oh, no, it was probably the worst. Okay, it was.

• 1:24:54Joe Rogan?

  I don't think it was the worst.

• 1:24:55Speaker 01

  It was bad.

• 1:24:56Joe Rogan?

  He did a lot of crazy shit, yeah.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  But, take a look at it.

• 1:25:00Joe Rogan?

  Those were his setups. Oh, yeah.

• 1:25:02Speaker 01

  It was, it was tight. He always was improving.

• 1:25:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he was dangerous.

• 1:25:07Speaker 01

  Remember he dropped Conor.

• 1:25:08Joe Rogan?

  He cracked Conor. You know, with a big right hand, which was like, everybody was like, holy shit. Like, that was a shocker. I had several conversations with Shaw about that, because I went down and did his show a couple of times in LA before that fight. And I said, look, stylistically Conor's the better striker. I go, but the intimidation of the takedown and the threat of the takedown for Conor is gonna make him hesitant. I said, don't be surprised if Habib ends up landing some good, some good hard shots on the feet. That's a giant factor. The fear of the takedown. It's bad about Kevin Randleman when he fought Krokop, when he knocked him out. That was what it buzzed. It was the fear of the takedown, the thinking.

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  The thought process of, I can't let him.

• 1:25:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, you get it, if Kevin Randleman and Krokop fought a straight kickboxing match with no takedowns, Jesus Christ.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  It's a walk, I mean, you don't wanna watch it.

• 1:25:51Joe Rogan?

  It'd be terrible to watch. But that threat of the takedown is this factor that keeps you from being comfortable, it keeps you from finding your flow state. That little hesitation opens up so many opportunities to get, to catch him. Yeah, it's big. It's so big, you see it in fights all the time. When a guy just has this extra element of the, and when, so that's why it's so impressive when you see a guy like Pereira, where there's no threat of the takedown. Yeah. There's no threat.

• 1:26:14Speaker 01

  None.

• 1:26:15Joe Rogan?

  It's not happening, he's not even thinking about taking down, he's just gonna fuck you up. And now it's up to you to deal with that.

• 1:26:22Speaker 03

  We just don't have the level of wrestlers these days in the 205 in the heavyweight division to compete with them on the, in the wrestling area.

• 1:26:28Speaker 01

  That's where, that's where you have someone like Stevenson coming in, Gable coming in in the heavyweight division. Okay, Curtis Blades can wrestle. Now Josh Hoke, look at Josh Hoke, it's the real deal, you know, he was a, he's a, he's a good athlete.

• 1:26:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  He's a good all-around athlete.

• 1:26:43Speaker 03

  He's a character.

• 1:26:44Speaker 01

  You can go with the shtick.

• 1:26:46Joe Rogan?

  Look, we're talking about him.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:26:48Joe Rogan?

  But also he put up, he put up.

• 1:26:50Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:26:50Joe Rogan?

  He put up in that Curtis Blades fight.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  That fight as a heavyweight fight was awesome.

• 1:26:55Joe Rogan?

  Awesome to watch. Terrible for your dome though.

• 1:26:57Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 1:26:57Joe Rogan?

  And that's the crazy thing that he's gonna fight Derrick Lewis, who's the biggest knockout puncher in the history of the fucking heavyweight division. More knockouts than anyone. He's gonna fight him, what, how many weeks? Seven weeks?

• 1:27:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, seven weeks.

• 1:27:09Joe Rogan?

  Seven weeks? Seven fucking weeks? After a war with Curtis, you see Curtis Blades fists? They're like this. They're like that big. They're gigantic. He's a giant man. And he hit him a bunch of times. Big shots.

• 1:27:22Speaker 01

  And what, look, I gotta give it up for Curtis Blades. What a fight he put on, because he took some damage.

• 1:27:29Speaker 03

  He delivered some big shots with mad heart.

• 1:27:31Joe Rogan?

  Mad heart. Crazy, crazy heart, because he just did not want to lose to that shit-talking dude.

• 1:27:38Joe Rogan?

  That's what I'm funny thing is like, Hoke, we'll drop the, the act where you talk to him in real life. And in, in the ring, you know, in the cage after the fight, I said, dude, that was a fucking amazing fight. He goes, he goes, I talk so much shit.

• 1:27:51Joe Rogan?

  He goes, I talk so much shit.

• 1:27:56Speaker 03

  And then he went and did it again. Little Elliot Tapori is out there trying to pick fights with him too.

• 1:28:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, he just talks shit about so many people. He's just trying to get people upset and talk about it.

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  He's just pushing buttons.

• 1:28:09Joe Rogan?

  Listen, that's the, the Conor McGregor game plan. Like, I mean, Conor did it the best. Chael did it. Chael was the first, really, to do it in MMA.

• 1:28:18Speaker 01

  Chael did it.

• 1:28:18Joe Rogan?

  And then Conor took it to another level.

• 1:28:20Speaker 03

  But they kinda stayed in, they kinda stayed in their lane. Like, this is my weight class. This dude doesn't care if you're 135, 145.

• 1:28:27Joe Rogan?

  He talks a ton of shit. He just wants controversy. He's basically like one of them kids. Six streamers. He's just trying to talk shit as much as possible.

• 1:28:36Speaker 01

  He's look what he's done though, man. He has put himself, he can fight in the UFC for a division that the UFC has.

• 1:28:42Joe Rogan?

  They need.

• 1:28:43Speaker 01

  Man, they need these people.

• 1:28:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think Gable's the man. That's what I think.

• 1:28:48Speaker 01

  That's your nightmare.

• 1:28:48Joe Rogan?

  That's Mike Tyson when he was 20. You know what I mean?

• 1:28:50Speaker 03

  He's still green. He's got, he's got some work to do, but I'm glad they signed him early and, you know, um, try to develop him hopefully a little bit. Give him two or three more fights inside the UFC.

• 1:28:59Joe Rogan?

  The problem is the heavyweight division in the UFC is so shallow that you could see Gable fighting for a title within a year or two.

• 1:29:06Speaker 01

  Three fights.

• 1:29:07Joe Rogan?

  Three fights. Could be. Yeah, could be.

• 1:29:09Speaker 03

  He's gonna have to learn a lot though in that process.

• 1:29:11Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent. He's got John in his corner.

• 1:29:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  You gotta, you gotta give him credit though. He has shown that, you know, first off, he's super fast.

• 1:29:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  But he's also got a chin. He got kicked up into the head, neck area. He ate that sucker. You know, and continued on and you go.

• 1:29:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's a tank.

• 1:29:29Speaker 01

  Don't let that happen again, but.

• 1:29:30Joe Rogan?

  Don't let it happen a lot.

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  But man, you've shown, hey, he didn't let it affect him. He didn't back off.

• 1:29:35Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's an Olympic gold medalist. I mean, he's a winner. He is a small heavyweight though, like that hybrid style.

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's the best.

• 1:29:42Joe Rogan?

  It is, it is. He's 250. He's just not tall, but he's wide as fuck. His legs.

• 1:29:48Speaker 01

  His legs and ass are huge.

• 1:29:49Joe Rogan?

  How about when he had that dirty boxing fight and then leapt over the top rope? Literally.

• 1:29:54Speaker 01

  That's the whole thing.

• 1:29:55Joe Rogan?

  Like it was a box of tissues on the ground.

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  Dude, the best one, the best one was when he had the first one and he hits the guy and the guy's out going down and he's taking him down.

• 1:30:03Joe Rogan?

  He shoots a double while the guy's cold. That's how fast he is. Yeah, he's the most impressive of the prospects. But, you know, hopefully this is gonna excite the, like, when you have a, like, every division goes through these, like, peaks and valleys. And when you have a lull, hopefully that's when people come in and they fill that void. And with Francis out of the UFC and looks like forever.

• 1:30:26Speaker 01

  Which is a shame.

• 1:30:26Joe Rogan?

  It's a shame. I don't, I tried to negotiate that. I tried to bring the two of them back together. I tried to have a sit down. Dana was not interested. He doesn't want to have anything to do with him. It's about interpersonal relationships, interpersonal exchanges that they had that I'm not, oh, I don't know what happened exactly. I just know what Dana told me and I believe him. So it's like, you have the best heavyweight in the world and he's, he can't fight in the UFC. Which is to me crazy. I mean, let's do Molly together. Fucking let's work this out. Let's fucking work this out, bro.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  We could do anything, right?

• 1:30:59Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that's why I'm not a promoter and it's why I'm not a businessman. But if I was, I would, I would go to dinner with him. I'd come on, man. We'll be, I'm sure we could let our differences be aside. Like, he's not a bad guy. It's just, you know.

• 1:31:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:11Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes people get upset, they say things, like, smooth it out.

• 1:31:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:16Joe Rogan?

  My experiences with Francis have always been super positive.

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  A lot of people.

• 1:31:20Joe Rogan?

  Enjoy talking to him.

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  Francis has been nothing but kind to me and everybody I've introduced him to and stuff. He's always great.

• 1:31:28Joe Rogan?

  He's the scariest fucking heavyweight on planet earth.

• 1:31:30Speaker 01

  Dude, he's huge.

• 1:31:31Joe Rogan?

  He's huge.

• 1:31:31Speaker 01

  People, I, I, I was at an awards thing and, and when Misha Tate and Rashad Evans and I and my wife were taking a picture, and all of a sudden, there's shadow comes over the top of us and it's Francis with his arms out like, hey, right? It's like, what the hell?

• 1:31:46Joe Rogan?

  When you get a natural 265, a guy's na- and shredded, cutting weight to make 265, that's.

• 1:31:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:52Joe Rogan?

  I mean, he's, he, there was many fights where he was like 270, 275.

• 1:31:56Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:31:57Joe Rogan?

  He would drop a little bit of weight to make the 260, which is also stupid. Why is there a 265 pound weight limit for the heavyweight division? That's nuts. Isn't that nuts?

• 1:32:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know why.

• 1:32:06Speaker 03

  Because you get those really big guys.

• 1:32:09Speaker 01

  It was Lorenzo. Lorenzo was, you know, looking at it saying, here, I don't want fat guys. Really? That's what, you know, because you had.

• 1:32:17Joe Rogan?

  What about Roy, Big Country? Everybody loved Big Country when he was winning.

• 1:32:20Speaker 01

  But it was, at the time, in, in MMA, you had no weight limits.

• 1:32:25Speaker 03

  Roy was lovable.

• 1:32:26Speaker 01

  To a point.

• 1:32:27Joe Rogan?

  Love Roy.

• 1:32:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. No weight limits and, and that whole thing was, he looked and said, I don't want, you know, a bunch of fat guys. We gotta cut it off at a certain point because I'm not gonna have super heavyweight.

• 1:32:35Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:32:36Speaker 01

  You know, and he thinks never, they never did.

• 1:32:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, not having super heavyweight is fine, but merge it.

• 1:32:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:41Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's ridiculous. If a guy is like, Value F, remember Value F?

• 1:32:45Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:32:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. The Russian guy was seven feet tall, fought Holyfield. Let him fight!

• 1:32:49Speaker 01

  David, David Haye beat him. Remember that one?

• 1:32:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's right.

• 1:32:52Speaker 01

  David Haye.

• 1:32:53Joe Rogan?

  And David Haye's a small heavyweight in comparison.

• 1:32:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:32:55Joe Rogan?

  Holyfield beat him too, right? Didn't Holyfield beat him?

• 1:32:58Speaker 01

  No, I don't think, Holyfield didn't fight Value F.

• 1:33:00Joe Rogan?

  I think they did.

• 1:33:01Speaker 01

  Did they?

• 1:33:01Joe Rogan?

  I think they did.

• 1:33:02Speaker 01

  Look that one up.

• 1:33:03Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. I think they did. I might be wrong.

• 1:33:06Speaker 01

  I don't think, I don't, I'm not sure Vander fought him. David Haye beat him, I know that.

• 1:33:10Joe Rogan?

  Might be wrong. But.

• 1:33:12Speaker 03

  Oh, there they are.

• 1:33:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:13Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:33:14Speaker 01

  Oh, that's him.

• 1:33:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:17Joe Rogan?

  2008.

• 1:33:18Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 1:33:19Joe Rogan?

  And Evander Holyfield was a cruiserweight. Remember when he fought Dwight Muhammad Kawi, who was 5'7"?

• 1:33:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:33:24Joe Rogan?

  Kawi was a 5'7 cruiserweight and he would get underneath you and be like moving around. He was like, he was a nightmare to deal with.

• 1:33:30Speaker 01

  He was a mini Joe Frazier.

• 1:33:31Joe Rogan?

  Bro, he was a tank. That guy was, and he would pull his trunks way up to here, too.

• 1:33:36Speaker 01

  Oh, dude. Dude, right through his nipples.

• 1:33:39Joe Rogan?

  It was crazy. Oh, value of one.

• 1:33:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:42Joe Rogan?

  Highly disputed, that's what it is. Majority decision. That's where you get a fucking referee in your corner?

• 1:33:48Speaker 01

  That's when, look at the, look at the age of Evander.

• 1:33:51Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:33:51Speaker 01

  Forty-six.

• 1:33:52Joe Rogan?

  Which is crazy.

• 1:33:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 1:33:53Joe Rogan?

  It is crazy. It's crazy when you see these guys that, you know, you're like, oh, wow, Yoel Romero can do it. Okay, listen.

• 1:33:59Speaker 01

  No. He's a, he is a distinct.

• 1:34:02Joe Rogan?

  Not from Earth.

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  Okay, this is where this whole UFO thing comes in.

• 1:34:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, right?

• 1:34:06Speaker 01

  And here, here is the proof of, yes, there are aliens and Yoel Romero is one of them.

• 1:34:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:12Speaker 01

  Okay, he is built differently than every other human being on the face of the planet.

• 1:34:16Joe Rogan?

  I told this story before, I don't know if you guys heard it, but this, this actually happened when the, one of his fights, he had broken into his orbital. The UFC brings him to a doctor. The doctor says to him, to the UFC, where did you get this guy? And they go, he's pretty awesome. And he goes, no, no, no, I've never seen a human built like this before. They said his tendon in his eye were three times larger than a normal person's. They said the orbital bone is already healing. Like, this is crazy.

• 1:34:42Speaker 01

  I need no medicine.

• 1:34:43Joe Rogan?

  So then there's some questions. It's like, you know, listen, the Cubans are very connected to the Russians, who are very connected to science.

• 1:34:50Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:34:50Joe Rogan?

  It's wild. It has, I mean, you gotta think, if you had a kid and you knew this kid was gonna be wrestling, you're gonna be like, bang, bang, bang, when he's coming up. You could make a totally different kinda kid.

• 1:35:01Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:35:02Joe Rogan?

  I remember, I read a story about this guy and his son started showing, like, androgenic effects very early on. They were freaked out, like, the kid was getting, like, his dick was growing, he's getting hair. They're like, what the fuck is happening to this baby? And they realized that the dad had testosterone cream. So the dad was taking testosterone, he's hugging the baby. And, you know, bare chest to bare chest.

• 1:35:26Speaker 01

  It's transferring.

• 1:35:26Joe Rogan?

  It's, he's literally juicing up his fucking kid.

• 1:35:29Speaker 01

  Have you, have you seen Andre Smaya?

• 1:35:31Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  Holy Jesus Christ.

• 1:35:34Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, pull up that guy.

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

  Huh? Andre Smaya is a, he's a, he's kind of a hybrid. He's a bodybuilder, power lifter, strong man, arm wrestler.

• 1:35:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  He's 350 pounds. I mean, 20, 27 inch arms, something like that.

• 1:35:49Joe Rogan?

  His hands, his hands are so big, they look like catcher's mitts. Look at his hands.

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  Have you heard, you know what he's taking?

• 1:35:56Joe Rogan?

  2016 to 2026. Look at the difference. 2016, look like a normal, look at his hands.

• 1:36:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, look at his hands difference. His hands are huge because he takes-

• 1:36:04Joe Rogan?

  Growth hormone?

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:36:05Joe Rogan?

  Everything.

• 1:36:06Speaker 01

  He takes a thousand units of growth hormone a day. That's 10 vials.

• 1:36:11Joe Rogan?

  What? He does?

• 1:36:12Speaker 01

  Yes. He's gonna die.

• 1:36:14Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:36:14Speaker 01

  You cannot take that much.

• 1:36:15Joe Rogan?

  Is that real?

• 1:36:16Speaker 03

  That's insane.

• 1:36:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:18Joe Rogan?

  A thousand, oh my God, look at the size of him. That's so crazy.

• 1:36:23Speaker 01

  That dude does one arm pull-ups at 350 pounds.

• 1:36:27Speaker 03

  That's nuts.

• 1:36:28Speaker 01

  I mean, he is absolutely-

• 1:36:30Joe Rogan?

  And he's not, and he has a regular job.

• 1:36:31Speaker 01

  He's 27 years old. Look at him, he looks like he's 50.

• 1:36:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he looks at least 50. Doesn't he have a factory job? I think he has a regular job. So it's not even, he's not even doing it for money.

• 1:36:40Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 1:36:40Joe Rogan?

  But it's crazy when you see him when he was young. Like, look at that. That's him. That's the same guy. I mean, that, that looks like a regular athlete.

• 1:36:47Speaker 01

  He is a regular athlete there.

• 1:36:48Joe Rogan?

  And then all of a sudden, he becomes this fucking immense freak.

• 1:36:53Speaker 01

  He is.

• 1:36:53Speaker 03

  He must have done a lot of testosterone to lose all of it.

• 1:36:56Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:38Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:23Joe Rogan?

  That's T-E-C-O-V-A-S dot com. And right now, get 10% off at tacovas.com/rogan when you sign up for email and texts. His hair like that, yeah. He did everything. He's done everything there is. Whatever you got, gimme it. There's a lot of those dudes. Do you know about that guy, Tom Haveland?

• 1:38:44Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, from Australia? Dude, that-

• 1:38:46Joe Rogan?

  Six foot eight?

• 1:38:47Speaker 01

  That dude, you take a look at him. He is, he's unique in the fact, he doesn't do the normal workouts and stuff.

• 1:38:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  He does basic farm stuff. He picks up, you know, things, farmer walks with stuff that's ridiculously heavy.

• 1:39:01Joe Rogan?

  He does like a lot of, picks up axles and weird shit.

• 1:39:04Speaker 01

  Dude, but he's six foot eight, eh, let's say 330 pounds.

• 1:39:08Joe Rogan?

  More.

• 1:39:08Speaker 01

  Not an ounce of fat on him.

• 1:39:10Joe Rogan?

  He was trying to get to four. He was trying to get to four, so he's in the 390s. He was like, this is building up to 400 pounds, but shredded. And, and preposterously strong.

• 1:39:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:21Joe Rogan?

  Like farmers-

• 1:39:22Speaker 01

  He's always, he's always working out when you can't see him.

• 1:39:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you see his back and he's always wearing clothes, which is very odd. But there's photos of him without the clothes.

• 1:39:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:30Joe Rogan?

  And it's almost like he's building a masterpiece and he wants to reveal it once he's done painting. See if you can find some pictures of what he actually looks like, cause there is occasionally they show his body.

• 1:39:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, he always, always takes all the stuff from behind.

• 1:39:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, fucking bro.

• 1:39:46Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:39:46Joe Rogan?

  Look at that, look at that, that's fucking insane.

• 1:39:48Speaker 01

  Oh, he looks young.

• 1:39:50Joe Rogan?

  I don't think he's that old.

• 1:39:51Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:39:51Speaker 01

  He is young.

• 1:39:52Joe Rogan?

  I think he's like maybe thirty or something.

• 1:39:53Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 1:39:54Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts.

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, he is.

• 1:39:55Joe Rogan?

  Gigantic dude, six eight, three eighty-five, what the fuck? What the fuck? Now, imagine if he wanted to fight MMA and they're like, well, sorry, you've gotta lose a hundred and ten pounds. Fuck off, that's crazy, fuck you.

• 1:40:08Speaker 01

  Okay, hold on, hold on, think about this.

• 1:40:10Joe Rogan?

  Look at that.

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  You're, you're, you're the heavyweight that they want to put him against, yes, there's a weight class.

• 1:40:17Joe Rogan?

  So, listen, I think this should be a two twenty-five and then should be chaos. Two twenty-five and then chaos.

• 1:40:22Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:40:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:23Joe Rogan?

  You, you, and let the freaks in. Let them, them Iceland dudes in.

• 1:40:28Speaker 03

  I mean, some of the, some of the most entertaining fights in Pride, right, were the freak fights.

• 1:40:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, here's the thing, no, that guy's gonna melt your piss cup.

• 1:40:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:40:36Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 1:40:37Speaker 01

  So, just like in Pride.

• 1:40:38Joe Rogan?

  Fucking.

• 1:40:39Speaker 03

  It's just like in Pride.

• 1:40:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, if you put him, if you put that fucking guy like one of them tester machines, it would ding like one of those cartoon things where you fucking. With the mallet and it hits the bell.

• 1:40:52Speaker 01

  There would be fireworks going off, streamers coming down.

• 1:40:55Joe Rogan?

  Chance that guy's on the nash.

• 1:40:57Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 1:40:57Joe Rogan?

  But that's just like Pride, you know?

• 1:40:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly like Pride.

• 1:41:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Pride, everybody was juicy.

• 1:41:01Speaker 01

  They just had the enhanced game.

• 1:41:02Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 1:41:03Speaker 03

  But it didn't do that well.

• 1:41:04Speaker 01

  Only one, only one world record was broken in the fifty yard, fifty meter. Yeah, really, that was a fifty meter swim.

• 1:41:10Joe Rogan?

  Swim.

• 1:41:10Speaker 03

  But they were wearing a suit.

• 1:41:11Speaker 01

  Wearing a suit that's illegal.

• 1:41:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because it makes you slippery.

• 1:41:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:14Speaker 03

  And it was, and it was a guy that had already beaten the world record like, I don't know, a couple of years back. Somebody's beaten him since.

• 1:41:20Joe Rogan?

  It's, no one really, it wasn't that successful. And I talked to a friend of mine about it and he was like, I think, first of all, they're not like monitoring everything everyone's doing. They're not optimizing them. If you really wanna juice these people up, you can't let them do it themselves.

• 1:41:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:33Joe Rogan?

  You've gotta have like a whole program where you put them on this stuff, but also like, what are we doing?

• 1:41:37Speaker 01

  Did you hear what, you, you hear the reason why they're doing it?

• 1:41:39Joe Rogan?

  Why?

• 1:41:40Speaker 01

  They, the whole thing is kinda like Red Bull. You know how Red Bull does all the crazy, you know, different stunt stuff and everything? Their whole thing is they are a. They're a company that gives out or puts out these monthly things of TRT and all these different things with testosterone and stuff. So they did this whole thing as an advertisement, basically for people to see that being enhanced is better and that you'll come and now sign up for it's, I think it's $399 a month for your whole thing to be, yeah, $399.

• 1:42:16Joe Rogan?

  The enhanced program.

• 1:42:17Speaker 01

  There you go. It's the enhanced program.

• 1:42:18Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so when did-

• 1:42:19Speaker 01

  Thank you, Jamie.

• 1:42:19Joe Rogan?

  When we had them on, Jamie, did they bring this up? I don't think they did. Maybe they adopted this later because we had them on like about a year before they were going to do the games and they were telling, and I was like, let's go, juice them up, juice everybody up.

• 1:42:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. What about enhanced fight games?

• 1:42:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:39Joe Rogan?

  Very interesting, the Vitor Belfort days.

• 1:42:41Speaker 01

  The whole question is this, when you truly look at it, because I look and say, look, as long as you, if you open it up to everyone, then it's someone's choice, you're gonna hear all that thing, well, you know, you can do it if you want, you don't have to do it. But it's different when you're lifting a weight or you're swimming in a pool.

• 1:42:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:42:58Speaker 01

  Or doing those things, or you're beating on another human being. It's just, there's a difference. You're creating damage in the sport of fighting.

• 1:43:06Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:43:06Speaker 01

  Do you want to enhance someone in being able to do that?

• 1:43:11Joe Rogan?

  You're also enhancing your ability to take damage. You could take that into consideration. You're gonna get hit with less shots because you're gonna have more endurance because you're gonna be on EPO. You're gonna have-

• 1:43:21Speaker 01

  That's always good for you, too.

• 1:43:22Joe Rogan?

  Super good. The strokes that you get on EPO are the best.

• 1:43:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But I mean, like, I gotta think there's a way to do all those things if you're monitoring your blood work and you're being very careful, where you don't go crazy like the Russian cat.

• 1:43:41Speaker 01

  Like that?

• 1:43:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:42Speaker 01

  You know, people, that's human nature.

• 1:43:44Joe Rogan?

  Yep. You're right.

• 1:43:45Speaker 01

  One step, take another.

• 1:43:47Joe Rogan?

  Yep. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And if that guy has skills, imagine that guy.

• 1:43:51Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:43:52Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if you got Fedor and you go, bro, you wanna keep fighting?

• 1:43:56Speaker 01

  I got you.

• 1:43:56Joe Rogan?

  And I know you're 49, but listen.

• 1:44:00Speaker 01

  That's only, that's only biological. I can make you 32 again.

• 1:44:03Joe Rogan?

  We get you in a hyperbaric chamber every day for two hours. And this is what we're gonna do. Testosterone in the morning, testosterone at lunch, testosterone at night.

• 1:44:10Speaker 01

  And a little growth after.

• 1:44:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, growth is all day long. You're taking growth from the moment you wake up. We're gonna get you up to about 290 shredded.

• 1:44:18Speaker 01

  We're gonna peptide you.

• 1:44:21Speaker 03

  I think part of the attraction to Fedor though is his belly.

• 1:44:24Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:44:25Speaker 03

  You know?

• 1:44:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:25Speaker 03

  You lose that and I'm like, ah.

• 1:44:27Joe Rogan?

  I mean, imagine Lorenzo saying, I don't want fat guys to fight. And then you see Fedor.

• 1:44:31Speaker 01

  He did everything he could to get Fedor.

• 1:44:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, they did. They really did. I remember those days. It was kinda crazy, like the, he was negotiating with some dangerous characters.

• 1:44:41Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:44:41Joe Rogan?

  And Dana's like, we gotta up our security. This is getting fucking, this is getting heavy with these guys. They wanted a piece of the promotion.

• 1:44:48Speaker 01

  That was, that was the whole, everything, everyone talks about that and stuff. Like, it wasn't, it wasn't Fedor. You know, Fedor would have fought for anyone. And it wasn't the price of what, you know, he wanted for money. It was M1 was associated, Vadim Finkelstein was Fedor's manager. He had M1 and he wanted a co-promotion.

• 1:45:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:08Speaker 01

  With UFC, and the UFC's like, no.

• 1:45:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:10Speaker 01

  We can't do that. That's the one thing we can't do. And that was, that was the end all right there.

• 1:45:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Which is unfortunate, right?

• 1:45:15Speaker 01

  Oh, totally.

• 1:45:16Joe Rogan?

  Because we missed out on the greatest matchup of all time between Prime Kane and Prime Fedor. Prime Kane and Prime Fedor would have been fucking nuts.

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:27Joe Rogan?

  Nuts. I mean, absolutely nuts. Nobody had a gas tank like Kane. Nobody.

• 1:45:32Speaker 03

  I just talked to him yesterday, Kane. And I was just talking about, I said, if there was one fight you could come back for. And he's like, ah. You know, I'm really, like, he's not, he's just, he's completely checked out of the fight thing. But I was like, you know.

• 1:45:43Speaker 01

  No, he's not checked out of the fight. I mean, he's doing a great job of training guys.

• 1:45:46Speaker 03

  To me.

• 1:45:46Speaker 01

  He's back doing it.

• 1:45:47Speaker 03

  He's not.

• 1:45:47Speaker 01

  He's not.

• 1:45:48Speaker 03

  No, he's not. Uh-uh. Just talked to him.

• 1:45:50Speaker 01

  Dude, he was just, I was just talking to someone at the fights.

• 1:45:53Speaker 03

  No, he's, he's just like, no, I'm kinda like just disconnected. Like, it's, he's just trying to get his life back.

• 1:45:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, understandable.

• 1:45:59Speaker 03

  You know?

• 1:45:59Joe Rogan?

  Understandable.

• 1:46:00Speaker 03

  That's the one fight. I said, if there was one fight I could pick for you, it'd be Fedor. It'd be, that'd be the one fight I'd wanna see out of him.

• 1:46:05Joe Rogan?

  We missed that.

• 1:46:06Speaker 01

  It's funny, cause everyone talks, I agree with you completely. Everyone talks about, you know, the fight that they would have put together would have been Brock. Against Fedor.

• 1:46:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:16Speaker 01

  And I look and I go, yeah, it's probably not that good of a fight.

• 1:46:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's like Brock had had such a hard time.

• 1:46:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:22Joe Rogan?

  Standing up with that guy.

• 1:46:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:24Joe Rogan?

  Fedor, well, the good example, like the Brock fight to me that was like kind of the craziest fight was Alistair.

• 1:46:30Speaker 01

  Oh, but Uberim.

• 1:46:32Joe Rogan?

  Uberim.

• 1:46:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:33Joe Rogan?

  The most juicy he ever has.

• 1:46:34Speaker 01

  That wasn't juice, that was horse meat.

• 1:46:35Joe Rogan?

  That was everything. That was horse meat. He definitely ate some horse meat.

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:46:39Joe Rogan?

  But there was, he was, he was also eating pills.

• 1:46:42Speaker 01

  Oh, that guy.

• 1:46:43Joe Rogan?

  There was a lot going on, but he was a monster.

• 1:46:46Speaker 01

  He was huge.

• 1:46:46Joe Rogan?

  World-class pick boxer.

• 1:46:48Speaker 03

  You see him now?

• 1:46:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's like a vegan now.

• 1:46:50Speaker 03

  He doesn't look anything like it.

• 1:46:52Speaker 01

  He looks like he did.

• 1:46:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:53Speaker 01

  But he's back to his pride days.

• 1:46:54Speaker 03

  Slummed down, looking good.

• 1:46:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:46:57Speaker 03

  Back to his supermodel days.

• 1:46:58Joe Rogan?

  Good for health.

• 1:46:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:47:00Joe Rogan?

  By the way, that guy's been KO'd a ton of times, seems fine.

• 1:47:03Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:47:03Joe Rogan?

  Like, he did the commentary during the Usik fight, the Rico fight, and it was like, guy is fucking talking great. He's like smooth and articulate.

• 1:47:10Speaker 01

  It's not, not everyone gets affected the same way.

• 1:47:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:47:13Speaker 01

  And it is, you know, there is, you, there's little factors and you can see the difference. There are guys, you know, that are, been boxers with 70 professional fights. They do, they talk fine, everything's good.

• 1:47:24Joe Rogan?

  There's also a gene.

• 1:47:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:47:26Joe Rogan?

  I think it's called APOE4, and if you have that, like, what is it, how does it work? If you have it, you're protected, or if you have it, you have the problem? So there's one, there's one gene expression that makes you more likely to get CTE.

• 1:47:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:39Joe Rogan?

  For whatever reason.

• 1:47:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:42Joe Rogan?

  What is it? Was it, put, put that into perplexity and see what it says about.

• 1:47:47Speaker 03

  There's a gene that you have in your body that.

• 1:47:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, some people have it and some people don't.

• 1:47:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:51Joe Rogan?

  And if, if you have the, whatever it is, what is the gene expression? I'm a moron, I'm not the guy to talk about this. But Dr. Rhonda Patrick talked about this, and she was saying essentially that if you have this, here it is. APOE4 appears to increase the risk of severity of chronic traumatic encephalopathy. And people with significant repetitive head impacts, but is a modifier of risk, not a cause by itself. So, meaning, obviously.

• 1:48:15Speaker 01

  If you have it and you're not taking head shots, you're okay, it doesn't do anything.

• 1:48:18Joe Rogan?

  Right, but if you have it.

• 1:48:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:20Joe Rogan?

  So, scroll back up again, please. A large postmortem study of 364 people with RH1 294 with CTE 70 without carrying APOE 4 was associated with more advanced CTE stage and higher tau protein burden in the frontal lobe. But mainly in those older than 65, but that's just because they haven't been testing all the MMA fighters.

• 1:48:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:41Joe Rogan?

  Or all the boxers. You know, because like if you really, you're just testing regular folks or football players. Probably, it's like football players is probably in the country, the most people that have had trauma.

• 1:48:53Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:48:54Joe Rogan?

  Because you think about high school kids, even junior high kids.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  Before that, yeah.

• 1:48:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, they did a study of, I forget how many different people, but they found that everyone, it was like nine out of 10 had it in every group, whether it was high school kids, college kids, some level of CTE, which is nuts.

• 1:49:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:14Joe Rogan?

  Not just NFL, not just college, high school kids.

• 1:49:18Speaker 01

  Everything, everything that we've learned and we know today comparatively, from here, I'm going to Florida for the Association of Ringside Physicians. They have their annual conference. And they put on all these different things and we, you know, put together programs for down fighter things and all this stuff. But we know so much more now. Joe, it used to be, you know, I would go and do a presentation for them. And it was, you know, one of the first things, you know, when I first did it, I asked him a question. The real simple question was, let me ask you this. If, if a guy gets hit with a shot, boom, and he's out, going down, and he hits the ground, and the fighter comes in and hits him with a shot, is it possible for him to hit him with a shot and actually wake him back up?

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  Everyone from back then, no. That's impossible. All it will do is intensify the effects of the first shot, all this stuff. And I took a DVD, I said, let's watch.

• 1:50:12Speaker 03

  What fight did you use?

• 1:50:13Speaker 01

  Dude, I had a bunch, you know, and it was a matter of it was trying to show them, hey, all these things that we think are just not true. Okay, when we have to, we have to branch out and start to figure this stuff out a little bit more because it, you know, in boxing, it's different because boxing establishes time for me to make decisions. MMA takes that time away because I have a fighter that is now, instead of walking towards or, you know, trotting towards a neutral corner or something like that, they're trotting towards that person to do more damage to him. And so you're making that quicker decision. And, you know, we've had too many fights where we have someone that, you know, they're out going down and then hit the ground and they're, and you have to actually wait.

• 1:50:56Speaker 01

  You know, I just had, you know, one last week with Jason Jackson is fighting his opponent, Jeff.

• 1:51:03Speaker 03

  Creighton.

• 1:51:03Speaker 01

  Creighton and Creighton gets hit and he's going down and I'm going in to stop it. And I see he starts sitting up and I go, I gotta wait. And it's like, I don't want to wait. Don't sit up. And he comes back, boom, hits him, goes out, I stop it. But it's like, those are the ones that you look at and you go, man, to understand the way the human body, everyone responds differently in certain situations. But we've learned more as far as the human body will do weird things in traumatic situations. And it is the ability to hit someone and to take those synapses that are connected and to separate them. There is no difference in being able to hit them and putting them back.

• 1:51:43Speaker 03

  That's crazy.

• 1:51:44Speaker 01

  They can get snapped the same way.

• 1:51:46Speaker 03

  Isn't that crazy?

• 1:51:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's nuts.

• 1:51:48Speaker 03

  In the, in the Hermes Franco fight in UFC 47, 46.

• 1:51:51Speaker 01

  Jesus Christ, don't go back too far.

• 1:51:52Speaker 03

  Too far, but we're in the third round, I catch his leg and he throws a little loopy shot and drops me. I have the leg in my hand and I'm just going, I can see my face headed towards the canvas. My eyes are wide open, but I can't put my hands in front of my face. My face bounces off the canvas, it wakes me up and then I start fishing for legs. It was just, I can see everything, I can hear everything. I just couldn't put my hands in front of my face. And my face hits the canvas, I wake back up and he starts jumping on me. I start trying to fish for legs and trying to get to guard and that's how that goes.

• 1:52:22Speaker 01

  Wow. The first thought to go through is, I hope I didn't damage my face because I'm so good looking, right?

• 1:52:28Joe Rogan?

  It is a problem.

• 1:52:29Speaker 03

  He's jealous, he's jealous over here.

• 1:52:31Joe Rogan?

  I told you the whole time. But actually you violated the stereotype that good looking guys can't fight. There was a little bit of a stereotype that like good looking guys, when push comes to shove, they're gonna fall apart because they're too good looking. They don't want to get fucked up.

• 1:52:41Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 1:52:42Joe Rogan?

  Not true.

• 1:52:43Speaker 01

  I've seen too many good looking guys.

• 1:52:44Joe Rogan?

  Look at Rico, look at Rico.

• 1:52:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:46Joe Rogan?

  Verhoeven's a fucking model.

• 1:52:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:48Joe Rogan?

  Beautiful man.

• 1:52:49Speaker 03

  That guy came to AK and trained with Kane and DC for a couple of weeks. That guy's a fucking murderer.

• 1:52:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:52:54Speaker 03

  He's a murderer and like when we were talking about earlier about the fight and him, the box, his boxing is really good. His cardio like you guys were talking about is fantastic, but man, he has no fear of being taken down. He has no fear of any of these guys. Kane and DC didn't care. He didn't, he would fight them to the death on defending takedowns. They were like, man, DC was the, as soon as they got, they touched gloves, he would just right to the legs.

• 1:53:19Joe Rogan?

  You know, he almost fought in the UFC.

• 1:53:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:21Joe Rogan?

  They offered him Jerick Lewis, but then the Usyk fight came up and it was like, listen, this is 15 million dollars.

• 1:53:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:53:28Speaker 03

  15 million dollars and look what happened. I mean, amazing choice because in most people's eyes, he won most of the rounds of that fight.

• 1:53:37Speaker 01

  Go, go back and look at some of the fights. That one right there. Okay. You know, it's the most recent. Look at Francis Ngano against Tyson Fury.

• 1:53:45Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:53:45Speaker 01

  And look at the scoring on that one. Go back to Conor McGregor versus Mayweather, because no matter what you want to say, Conor won the first couple of rounds because Mayweather didn't throw any punches. You, you don't, this whole thing about, oh, your general ringmanship, bullshit. You're not throwing punches, you're not winning a fight. Okay. It's a fight. It's not a dance. It's not how pretty you look. And so you can go back and I can tell you, like, I've talked with some of the judges off of the Mayweather McGregor, they go, I made, I made a mistake. I made, I gave credit where I shouldn't have given credit. It's like, how?

• 1:54:18Speaker 03

  Interesting. I think it's easier for the heavier weights though, to go up to boxing and have a little bit more success than it would be for the smaller guys. Like Ilija Topor wanted to fight Bud Crawford.

• 1:54:27Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no, stop, stop.

• 1:54:28Speaker 03

  Sorry. You know what I mean? Like that's my point. The, the level of boxing talent there with Bud and, and it's not, it's not even close. It's not even close.

• 1:54:36Joe Rogan?

  Bud's one of the greatest to ever do it.

• 1:54:38Speaker 03

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 1:54:39Joe Rogan?

  And Ilija maybe could be if he just went into boxing.

• 1:54:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:43Joe Rogan?

  I mean, the fucking guy's hands are insane.

• 1:54:45Speaker 01

  Bud Crawford. Could go to MMA, that dude can wrestle.

• 1:54:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:54:49Speaker 01

  Okay, so I would love, I mean, obviously not gonna happen just because of the money you can make boxing is not the same.

• 1:54:56Joe Rogan?

  And also, he's another guy that's like, I'm done. I don't have to do this anymore.

• 1:54:59Speaker 01

  Oh dude.

• 1:55:00Joe Rogan?

  I did all I had wanted to do, multiple division weight champion, undefeated, bye.

• 1:55:05Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:55:05Joe Rogan?

  Made a ton of money, see ya.

• 1:55:06Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:55:07Joe Rogan?

  Beat Canelo and boxed the brakes off of him.

• 1:55:09Speaker 01

  Boxed the ears off of him, exactly.

• 1:55:12Joe Rogan?

  Crazy, when he was, when he was pitty pat punching him and then hitting him with big shots, like that's what you do to someone when you're playing.

• 1:55:17Speaker 01

  He had Canelo so absolutely frustrated during that fight, but I, I remember you watch, I was in New York, Gleason's Gym. Terrence Crawford is there, and he is boxing all these guys and, and just playing, just absolutely, you know, come on, next one. And touch, touch, he never tried to hurt any of them, never tried to throw a big punch. You just look and you go, how good is this guy? He is that, you know, he's that guy.

• 1:55:46Joe Rogan?

  One of the best switch hitters to ever do it.

• 1:55:48Speaker 01

  Oh yeah.

• 1:55:49Joe Rogan?

  In my opinion, it's like him and Hagler.

• 1:55:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:51Joe Rogan?

  They're like right there together.

• 1:55:52Speaker 01

  It's wild.

• 1:55:53Joe Rogan?

  Greatest switch hitters.

• 1:55:53Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:55:54Joe Rogan?

  Cause he could box you southpaw, and then all of a sudden he's orthodox, and you're like, oh no.

• 1:55:58Speaker 01

  And dude, the, the funny part about him is, you know, you see it in MMA, guys will switch when they take a step and throw a punch, they'll switch to a different, you know. He does the same thing, and he does it and then takes a lateral movement that had Canelo like, where the hell is he?

• 1:56:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:13Speaker 01

  And he's going, hi, bap, you know?

• 1:56:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:15Speaker 01

  And you go, oh my god, he's so goddamn good.

• 1:56:17Joe Rogan?

  He hit Canelo with a straight left, and then Canelo went to counter, and he had the, the hands still out there, and he threw it, turned it into a left hook.

• 1:56:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:25Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, good lord.

• 1:56:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:27Joe Rogan?

  It was so pretty, you could see Canelo's like, here I come, bap, bang.

• 1:56:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:31Joe Rogan?

  He gets dinged with the left hook, like that is crazy speed and precision and technique.

• 1:56:36Speaker 03

  I've said this before, I've sparred with Robert Ghost, Robert the Ghost Carrero, and, cause he lived in Gilroy, and we would train together all the time. He would use me for the, I'd be in fight shape, ready for my UFC fights.

• 1:56:45Speaker 01

  Just judge his son's fight.

• 1:56:46Speaker 03

  Yeah. Just, li- literally, I'd show up, I was the first four rounds of a 12 round session, he knew, knew a new training partner every four rounds. This guy would just piece me. He would just toy with me and it was embarrassing. I'm like, I'm in the best shape of my life. But by round four, I was exhausted and he was barely touching me.

• 1:57:03Joe Rogan?

  Cause you're working hard.

• 1:57:04Speaker 03

  Touch, move, slip out the side, slip out the side.

• 1:57:06Joe Rogan?

  Skill.

• 1:57:07Speaker 03

  So good and he wasn't and he wasn't at Mayweather's level. He's fought Mayweather, but like he wasn't that level of slickness. But he made it look like it when I was in there with him.

• 1:57:15Joe Rogan?

  It's all in comparison.

• 1:57:16Speaker 03

  So good.

• 1:57:17Joe Rogan?

  I mean, there's guys that look, like, look at Jack Delamadalena when he fought Carlos Pratess. You're like, Jack Delamadalena is one of the scariest strikers in the sport. And then he fights Pratess, you're like, oh.

• 1:57:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:26Joe Rogan?

  Levels.

• 1:57:27Speaker 01

  Oh, there is a difference.

• 1:57:28Joe Rogan?

  Levels, there's levels.

• 1:57:29Speaker 01

  That's what you try to, and everyone has this idea, we talk about it all the time and I go, you don't understand the difference this much makes in the difference of how you compare in a fight with somebody.

• 1:57:41Joe Rogan?

  Levels.

• 1:57:42Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:57:42Joe Rogan?

  Levels, especially when you get a guy like Pratess that had so many high level Muay Thai fights.

• 1:57:47Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:57:48Joe Rogan?

  That's the big difference. These guys that with only striking, they develop an understanding of positions and technique. That's just not available if you're training the other stuff too. And so then they get to this, like Pereira, they get to this super high level at this one thing. And then they incorporate the other stuff, but that other level, you're not going to catch them. You're not going to catch Pratess when it comes to Muay Thai. That step in fucking tomahawk elbow that he does. Holy shit, dude. And he's playing and he smokes Marlboros and he drinks.

• 1:58:18Speaker 03

  He smokes Marlboros in the back.

• 1:58:20Joe Rogan?

  Bro, it's crazy. He's getting ready for the fight and he's smoking blunt.

• 1:58:23Speaker 03

  What was the guy that fought Delahoya that would come out and smoking cigarettes?

• 1:58:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Maorga, Maorga, yeah. But I mean, Maorga was never at the level of Pratess. Pratess like is so fucking slick, man. Some of the shit that he was doing to JDM, like JDM is a fucking killer. And he had no success.

• 1:58:43Speaker 01

  He was drowning.

• 1:58:44Joe Rogan?

  He was drowning and it was, it's also like, what is going on with his limbs? Why are they so big? It's like crazy. Like he says he's six foot one, the fuck out of here, bro. I want to, I want to measure your, your height and your length. Cause I think there's some bullshit.

• 1:58:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's just all legs and arms.

• 1:58:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think he did this for his reach. His reach is nuts. When you see him in there, he's like. All arms and legs and the technique is so beautiful. It's so beautiful, the setups. When you think he's punching, he's kicking the fuck out of your calf. And he's like slowly breaking you down, slowly breaking and then the knee. That fucking knee that comes out like a jab, his knee is nuts, man.

• 1:59:23Speaker 01

  You go back to his fight with Gary. You know, and you look at, you know, Gary was doing great, that last round.

• 1:59:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:31Speaker 01

  You know, he came, he came back on it and you look and you go.

• 1:59:34Joe Rogan?

  If this was five rounds, it'd be a real problem.

• 1:59:36Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 1:59:36Joe Rogan?

  But it also shows you how fucking good Ian Gary is, man.

• 1:59:39Speaker 01

  Absolutely, that's the whole point. It shows how good he is because he has gone against. Guys that are a real problem as far as stylistically. You know, his fight against MVP. Ian Gary did, you know, fought as smart as you could fight.

• 1:59:53Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:59:54Speaker 01

  And did a wonderful job in showing, hey, I'm multifaceted. I'm not just, you know, this one style fighter.

• 2:00:00Joe Rogan?

  With Prates, when he, when he knocked out Leon Edwards, I was like, oh. I, I knew he was really elite, but I'm like, Leon's so technical and he's so slick. Like if it's just, and Prates is not going to try to take him down. I'm like, this is going to be a very interesting fight.

• 2:00:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:13Joe Rogan?

  But it wasn't. It was, it was Carlos Prates show. He put on a fucking show.

• 2:00:18Speaker 03

  The relaxation, the comfort of being out there, also too Leon understanding like I was the champion. I'm not the champion, it's hard to get back there. The mindset has changed a lot.

• 2:00:27Speaker 01

  It's been hard for Leon ever since he, when he lost that, that title fight against Muhammad. And you look and everything that's happened to him since, it's just, you know. Confidence is everything.

• 2:00:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, the Sean Brady fight might have been even more brutal than that. Cause Sean just mauled him, mauled him. When Sean gets on top of people, like what he did to Joaquin Buckley was bananas.

• 2:00:48Speaker 01

  No, it wasn't. I, I, I look at that and this is why. Sean Brady won against Craig Jones. Okay, now it was an advantage as far as winning, but he grappled against the real Craig Jones. And showed that he can stay with him.

• 2:01:03Joe Rogan?

  You know, in that.

• 2:01:03Speaker 01

  Poor Joaquin is not at that level.

• 2:01:05Joe Rogan?

  Craig was not allowed to use leg locks. You know that, right? That's, that's a, that's crazy. That's a big, that's like fighting Ernesto Houst and you only can kick above the waist. You know what I'm saying?

• 2:01:14Speaker 01

  Well, that's just for Rick Rufus. It's a smart idea.

• 2:01:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but you know what I'm saying, it's like that Craig Jones, like you gotta give him his full game. You can't have him thinking, oh, I can't do this.

• 2:01:24Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 2:01:24Joe Rogan?

  He's taking away 50% of his attacks. But it shows you how good he is.

• 2:01:29Speaker 01

  Is really good.

• 2:01:30Joe Rogan?

  Elite, but it was just the ability to hold him down was just shocking. I mean, it's like, God, and then when he was mounting him and just like he was doing drills.

• 2:01:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:39Joe Rogan?

  If it wasn't, he was just like staying calm and just bang, bang, bang. It was like he was doing conditioning drills on a heavy bag, like he was just sitting on a heavy bag, pounding on the bag, time.

• 2:01:48Speaker 01

  Well, he was.

• 2:01:49Joe Rogan?

  Bro, it was nuts.

• 2:01:50Speaker 03

  I said this, maybe I caught some flack for it a little bit, but I said like, look, I think the Ian Gary fight and the practice fight for Islam, both those fights, I'm not saying they're easy fights because they're not, but you put, you put someone like a Sean Brady against Islam, and that becomes a little bit of a problem, a little bit more difficult.

• 2:02:06Speaker 01

  But that's matchups.

• 2:02:07Joe Rogan?

  Big difference.

• 2:02:08Speaker 03

  Styles make matchups.

• 2:02:09Speaker 01

  Styles make matchups.

• 2:02:10Joe Rogan?

  They really do.

• 2:02:11Speaker 01

  When you look at someone's style comparatively, it can, one person is easy for someone or they're very difficult for someone else. If you're gonna put someone against Islam as far as it's gonna be on the ground with him and give him difficult times.

• 2:02:24Speaker 03

  There's not a big enough, there's not a big enough sample size for me with Michael Morales. I think Michael Morales could be a big threat on the feet, the wrestling.

• 2:02:31Speaker 01

  Well, he beat Sean Brady, so obviously.

• 2:02:33Joe Rogan?

  Stopped him.

• 2:02:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, but the, the size, I think of Michael Morales will give Islam some problems as well.

• 2:02:38Joe Rogan?

  And Michael Morales can fucking wrestle.

• 2:02:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:02:40Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 2:02:40Speaker 03

  It's not like he's just a boxer. Ecuadorian national champ, I think is what he was, and then, you know, he's obviously got power.

• 2:02:45Joe Rogan?

  Super athletic.

• 2:02:47Speaker 01

  Islam doesn't do the normal wrestling.

• 2:02:49Speaker 03

  Nope.

• 2:02:49Speaker 01

  His takedowns are different.

• 2:02:50Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:02:50Speaker 01

  A lot of, a lot of foot sweeps, a lot of judo, a lot of difference in the way he does things.

• 2:02:54Joe Rogan?

  And world championship experience.

• 2:02:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:02:56Joe Rogan?

  And also the years of training with Khabib.

• 2:02:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:00Joe Rogan?

  Years.

• 2:03:01Speaker 03

  What he does so well is he does it off a transition. As soon as you punch, you guys, anywhere inside the clinch, he's already hitting the foot sweep into the inside trip. Can't get it, okay, I'll hit, I'll drop him down on a single or a double.

• 2:03:11Joe Rogan?

  You know I'm excited about it, 170 is Amosov.

• 2:03:14Speaker 01

  Oh dude.

• 2:03:15Joe Rogan?

  That Ukrainian cat.

• 2:03:16Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:03:17Speaker 03

  Oh, we know.

• 2:03:18Speaker 01

  We know, good.

• 2:03:19Joe Rogan?

  Of course you know.

• 2:03:19Speaker 03

  We know. He's good.

• 2:03:20Speaker 01

  He is absolutely the real deal.

• 2:03:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:24Speaker 01

  He is good everywhere.

• 2:03:26Joe Rogan?

  Everywhere.

• 2:03:27Speaker 01

  And his, his, like, his wrestling and his grappling ability, his submission ability is at the top of the, it's right there with Shawn Brady.

• 2:03:35Joe Rogan?

  Or my lion.

• 2:03:36Speaker 03

  No, no, it is, it is. I just, there's one guy out there though, and he was just talking about him. He's the one guy that he lost to who's not signed by the UFC, and that's Jason Jackson. He's the one guy to beat him. I'd love to see Jason Jackson in the UFC.

• 2:03:48Joe Rogan?

  Where's Jason now?

• 2:03:49Speaker 03

  He just fought an MVP.

• 2:03:50Speaker 01

  Just fought an MVP.

• 2:03:51Speaker 03

  Won in like 10 seconds.

• 2:03:52Speaker 01

  22 seconds.

• 2:03:52Speaker 03

  22 seconds.

• 2:03:53Speaker 01

  I had a hard night. I had 22 seconds and 17. It was very difficult. I was exhausted.

• 2:03:59Speaker 03

  But he's the only one, he's the only guy to beat Yaroslav Famasov.

• 2:04:03Speaker 01

  He is.

• 2:04:03Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:04:04Speaker 03

  He's fantastic on the feet. He has a wrestling background, but he chooses to stand. He's got like 30 jobs, a coconut stand, a car washing stand.

• 2:04:10Speaker 01

  He's got all kinds of businesses.

• 2:04:11Speaker 03

  He works, he works all the time.

• 2:04:12Speaker 01

  Dude, he's a working man.

• 2:04:13Speaker 03

  He's a working man, but um, he's very talented. I love watching that guy fight. I think him, you add him against a Pratas or against an Ian Gary.

• 2:04:21Speaker 01

  Oh, it'd be great.

• 2:04:22Speaker 03

  These guys would duke it out. It would be a great fight.

• 2:04:24Joe Rogan?

  It's interesting when there's guys that are at that level that aren't known.

• 2:04:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:29Speaker 03

  And he's a former champion.

• 2:04:31Speaker 01

  Jason's, Jason's been there. He was, you know, you gotta figure, he was in the UFC as far as the, the Ultimate Fighter when they did that whole Black Zillions versus ATT.

• 2:04:39Speaker 03

  Oh, that's right.

• 2:04:40Speaker 01

  He was part of that.

• 2:04:41Joe Rogan?

  That's right.

• 2:04:41Speaker 01

  You know, and, and he's just always been on the cusp of being brought back in and then not, you look and you go, he's got all the talent in the world, and he's tough as hell. He'll fight.

• 2:04:50Speaker 03

  He is tough.

• 2:04:51Speaker 01

  So.

• 2:04:52Joe Rogan?

  Who is that cat, that heavyweight that just knocked out Henan Ferreira in?

• 2:04:57Speaker 01

  Oh, that's uh, Sergey Bilustino.

• 2:05:00Joe Rogan?

  And he's one of Fedor's boys, right?

• 2:05:02Speaker 01

  He is now, yeah.

• 2:05:04Joe Rogan?

  That dude.

• 2:05:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:05Joe Rogan?

  That dude's scary.

• 2:05:06Speaker 01

  Bilustino, he's, dude, that dude is yoked.

• 2:05:09Joe Rogan?

  Yoked and moves fast.

• 2:05:11Speaker 01

  Moves fast and he's got power.

• 2:05:12Speaker 03

  But then you also got Nemkoff. Nemkoff's at heavyweight now.

• 2:05:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, Vadim Nemkoff is at heavyweight.

• 2:05:17Joe Rogan?

  He's another guy that's at the top of the heap that's not in the UFC.

• 2:05:20Speaker 01

  Vadim Nemkoff is good.

• 2:05:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:23Speaker 01

  And man, he is.

• 2:05:24Speaker 03

  Extremely athletic, he's not gonna, he's not a big heavyweight, he's got great lateral movement, he's really good with his hands, beautiful kicks.

• 2:05:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was a 205.

• 2:05:32Speaker 03

  And he can wrestle.

• 2:05:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:33Speaker 03

  And he can wrestle.

• 2:05:34Joe Rogan?

  He can do everything.

• 2:05:35Speaker 03

  He chooses the stand, but he'll mix up the wrestling to kinda get you, get you guessing.

• 2:05:39Joe Rogan?

  And he's another Fedor guy.

• 2:05:40Speaker 03

  He's another Fedor guy, yeah.

• 2:05:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's another one, like we, training under Khabib, I mean, if you're a Russian guy, training under Fedor, like, good lord.

• 2:05:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:47Joe Rogan?

  What a, what a crazy opportunity.

• 2:05:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you gotta live in Staryo School.

• 2:05:51Joe Rogan?

  Do you really? That's where they live?

• 2:05:52Speaker 01

  That's where they live, man.

• 2:05:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:05:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:05:54Joe Rogan?

  They, no parties there.

• 2:05:55Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 2:05:58Joe Rogan?

  You better have snow tires, too.

• 2:06:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, you better. Thick clothing, thick.

• 2:06:02Joe Rogan?

  Thick clothing, snow tires, and hate comfort.

• 2:06:06Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 2:06:06Joe Rogan?

  You're sleeping on a futon, bitch.

• 2:06:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's a lot of talented guys that will come out of other promotions, but I just, I'd love to see Jason Jackson in there mixing it up with those guys. Because stylistically, the matchups are there with Pratis and Gary and...

• 2:06:18Speaker 01

  The 170s right now, and putting Yaroslav, when the UFC finally signed him, I said, "Thank god."

• 2:06:24Joe Rogan?

  Thank god, yeah, me too.

• 2:06:26Speaker 01

  He deserves to be there, and they need, you know, that kind of, and look, he's gone in and proven, you know, dude, his fight against Joel Alvarez, Joel Alvarez is a good fighter. I mean, he made him look absolutely like he, the guy didn't know hardly anything.

• 2:06:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I watched it yesterday. I watched it again yesterday.

• 2:06:44Speaker 01

  You just wa, the last takedown, you know, the one he...

• 2:06:47Joe Rogan?

  When he airboarded him.

• 2:06:48Speaker 01

  Oh, my god. And you look at the, but look at the ease that he did it with.

• 2:06:53Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:06:53Speaker 01

  That's the thing.

• 2:06:54Joe Rogan?

  Spectacular technique.

• 2:06:55Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 2:06:56Joe Rogan?

  And the tightness of his grappling.

• 2:06:58Speaker 01

  See, and his, his training partner is Johnny Eblin.

• 2:07:02Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 2:07:03Speaker 01

  Same guy that's training partner now for Shawn Strickland.

• 2:07:06Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 2:07:07Speaker 01

  And those guys go after each other daily.

• 2:07:11Speaker 03

  And Johnny will tell you, he's the one that gives him the most fits inside the gym, the one that I spar with the most, the one that just gives me all the fits on the grappling, the wrestling, all those things. Go back to his, his fights too in the past when he fought Ed Ruth, he hip tossed Ed Ruth.

• 2:07:24Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 2:07:24Speaker 03

  Took Ed Ruth down, three-time national champ out of Penn State. I mean, he was having success against him. It was a very close fight, you know, and he ended up winning the fight, but it was one of those fights where you're like, damn, you walked away. This guy can wrestle, this guy can stand, he's chasing submissions, he's trying to get finishes. I mean, he had takedowns against Logan Storley, a six-time state champ out of

• 2:07:43Speaker 01

  Four-time All-American, Minnesota.

• 2:07:44Speaker 03

  And a four-time All-American out of Minnesota. Just phenomenal, phenomenal wrestler, but he's able to have exchanges with these guys. Chasing anacondas, darses, knee bars, everything. Extremely talented. There's a lot of guys that I would love to see to kind of mix in. Because every time, because when you look at the history of the sport, you got like Strikeforce when it came into UFC, those were the best fights. And you start pulling and plucking. I'm not saying that a lot of these guys need to come in right now, but if you can pluck one or two guys for each division.

• 2:08:12Speaker 01

  It's all it takes to mix things up.

• 2:08:13Speaker 03

  It starts sprucing this whole thing up. Because for a little bit before the Paramount deal happened, you know, because I cover this, I cover every fight every week, right? And we talk about it on the pod. It just simply put, everyone's like, man, these fights are trash, they're garbage, this and that. I'm like, guys are being complainers. Like, the cards are great, you guys are just, they're used to the next level of like the Connors and the Alexes.

• 2:08:34Joe Rogan?

  The stars.

• 2:08:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, on every card.

• 2:08:36Joe Rogan?

  But when it comes to just technique and just fighting ability, there's amazing fights out there.

• 2:08:40Speaker 03

  But when you, when you add in someone like when Michael Chandler came in, there was a lot of hype around it. When Patricio came in, and Aaron Pico, when they came in, there's a lot of hype around it. It kind of puts a little shot in the arm into the weight class and gets everyone amped up. The fighters that are there at the UFC, they're like, this guy ain't fucking beating me. I'm not letting this bum from this promotion beat me. And then the fighters that are coming in are like, no, I'm here to shoot, I'm here to prove that I deserve to be here. So it kind of, it gets the fans amped up, it gets the promotion amped up, and the division's kind of, it's a little bit of a spark. So I'd love to see that happen a little bit more.

• 2:09:13Joe Rogan?

  Absolutely, absolutely. You know, the Pico thing is really interesting. It's like his last fight, he looked so tight against Pitbull. He looked so good. Everything looked so smooth, like his boxing was flowing, his transitions to grappling was flowing, he fought intelligently. Like, that's the Pico that we needed to see.

• 2:09:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you take a look at his first fight against Laron, and I always say, that was, that was a Pico that was pressing.

• 2:09:40Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:09:40Speaker 01

  He was pressing that fight and making, you know, look at, taking chances.

• 2:09:45Joe Rogan?

  A little too obvious.

• 2:09:45Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 2:09:46Joe Rogan?

  That he was coming.

• 2:09:47Speaker 01

  And you look and you go. This is the difference between, you know, that first fight in the UFC and wanting to do so well and wanting to prove how good you are and stuff. And then finally relaxing and just, hey, let the fight come to me. Let me show what I can do and taking those moments when you get them. That's what he did in his fight against Patricio. And look, Patricio is good. And, and Pico, Pico could be so good. He just has to relax.

• 2:10:12Speaker 03

  He's still young.

• 2:10:13Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:10:13Speaker 03

  He's had a bunch of pretty bad KOs.

• 2:10:15Speaker 01

  Yes, he has.

• 2:10:16Speaker 03

  The Borax one.

• 2:10:17Speaker 01

  And that's a problem.

• 2:10:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:18Speaker 01

  Borax, you had the, the one against frickin', uh, Corrales.

• 2:10:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:22Speaker 01

  He hurt Corrales and then he got, you know, starched. He's had a couple of them.

• 2:10:26Speaker 03

  And both those fights he was winning. And that's the thing is he was winning, but he's beaten Borax and then he was beating Corrales. He, the fights that he lost, I mean.

• 2:10:34Joe Rogan?

  So hyper aggressive.

• 2:10:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:35Joe Rogan?

  And that's part of the problem. But it's also because he's so fucking good.

• 2:10:38Speaker 01

  But he's got the best left hook to the body since Paul Daley.

• 2:10:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's so smooth.

• 2:10:41Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, it's beautiful.

• 2:10:43Joe Rogan?

  I mean, his, just his left hook period, it's like such a whip. The technique is so smooth. It's so nice. So I gotta ask you about the Joe Schilling fight because, uh, there was, it was such a weird stoppage where Joe just decided, that's it, I'm quitting.

• 2:10:57Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:10:57Joe Rogan?

  So his opponent head butts him.

• 2:10:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:59Joe Rogan?

  And then Mike Beltran, who's a great referee, takes a point away?

• 2:11:03Speaker 01

  He did take a point.

• 2:11:04Joe Rogan?

  And then puts him right back in the same position.

• 2:11:06Speaker 01

  Okay, stop. That's not exactly what happened in the end.

• 2:11:08Joe Rogan?

  It's not?

• 2:11:09Speaker 01

  Nope. Well, it is what happened. Yes, you're right. But when, when you have a situation like that and you have the headbutt, Mike Beltran calls a stop, calls timeout, right, gets them up off of their feet and tries to put Joe, Joe's pissed. And, and I understand why Joe's pissed, you know, he's saying, hey, you know, first off, Joe's 42 years of age. He doesn't come there to be fouled. He's trying to, you know, he's gonna fight, okay. You know, and, and the whole thing is, look at the, look where his, look where his hands are. They're overhooked right now.

• 2:11:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:11:37Speaker 01

  Okay, the other guy's got his hands on the ground.

• 2:11:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:11:40Speaker 01

  Okay, so.

• 2:11:42Speaker 01

  You know, you don't want your hands on the ground. Okay, so Joe's in a decent part to at least if he wants to defend himself. So when he gets up, he's pissed off and everything. And then Beltran takes a point from the opponent and asks Joe, do you want to be, you want to stand up or do you want it back on the ground? And Joe picked, I want to be back on the ground. Okay.

• 2:12:06Joe Rogan?

  Why do you give your, why do you, why are you allowed to make a decision?

• 2:12:11Speaker 01

  You're allowed to make the decision because you were the one that was fouled. In a normal situation.

• 2:12:15Joe Rogan?

  He said, I want to be back on the ground?

• 2:12:17Speaker 01

  He said, I want to be back on the ground.

• 2:12:18Joe Rogan?

  That seems crazy.

• 2:12:19Speaker 01

  I agree with you. It's not what you would expect out of Joe Schilling.

• 2:12:22Joe Rogan?

  World-class, world champion kickboxer.

• 2:12:24Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:12:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:25Speaker 01

  And so with that, you gotta, you know, he's the one fouled. If the person on top is the one fouling, normally we're going to say they're going to lose their position. But there are many grapplers and people that have a hard time getting that person down. And so we, we went back to saying, all right, we're going to give the person who was fouled, the opportunity to make a decision. Normally, we're going to put it back on the feet. But if you want to put it back on the ground, I'll put it back there. But you're going to be in the same position as you were when the foul occurred.

• 2:12:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:12:54Speaker 01

  And that's what Mike Beltran went to do. And so he puts, starts to put him back. Uh, you have Abena is the opponent and he starts to put his hands on Joe's biceps. If you watch when they start to.

• 2:13:07Joe Rogan?

  When they put him back on the ground.

• 2:13:08Speaker 01

  Put him back on the ground. Joe tries to do the overhook. You saw the overhook and Abena starts to put his hand on the biceps.

• 2:13:16Joe Rogan?

  He did it on the left bicep, right?

• 2:13:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so it's not a matter of, you know, Beltran wasn't there to start the fight yet. He's got to put him in that position, but Joe, once that bicep thing started happening, he got mad. And he said, I'm done. I, you know, stop the fight. You can't make somebody fight. If someone says, I, I want out of the fight, they're out of the fight. So Beltran was in a position where he says he wants out of the fight. He's, he started, he fouled me and he's, that's what he's saying. And now he feels like he's not going to be put back in that same position. But he hadn't been, it's not like Beltran started it. He's trying to put him back. In the same position when Joe's kinda just losing his, losing his steam and getting pissed off. And so, you know, I'm looking to say, look, if you're gonna be that pissed off, it's a good thing you're not fighting because you don't fight smart and you're gonna end

• 2:14:03Speaker 01

  up getting hurt. But he's the one that decided that.

• 2:14:07Joe Rogan?

  So he has, he clearly has two overhooks at the end of the fight.

• 2:14:10Speaker 01

  At, at the, at this time of the foul, he's got an overhook, both sides.

• 2:14:15Joe Rogan?

  Yep. Well, sort of. The right one's not totally overhooked.

• 2:14:19Speaker 01

  But he's holding the back of the triceps. So you're gonna say, okay. So that's where he's at. Look where the opponent's hands are at. Opponent's hands are under his shoulders.

• 2:14:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:26Speaker 01

  Okay, so that's where he.

• 2:14:27Joe Rogan?

  That's how you should start.

• 2:14:28Speaker 01

  That's where it should be started. But he never gave Beltran the actual ability and time to say, no, no, put your hand here. And you can see Beltran starts to, you know, as Abena starts to try to put his hands on the biceps, Beltran's starting to put them underneath. So it's not, it's not Beltran.

• 2:14:46Joe Rogan?

  To go back to the ground.

• 2:14:47Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, that's the real question. And in, you know, all I know is at 42 years of age, you know, you're looking and saying, you know, Joe Schilling can fight. You know, Joe Schilling, he was a gangster. No doubt about it. And he, at this point is, you know, is he looking to, to, you know, become a champion? No, he's not looking to be a champion. So I'm taking the fight for what reason? For money. And so I think he just looked at it and based upon, well, this is not what I expected. I expected a fair fight. I expected us to, you know, fight like professionals and this dipshit is now headbutting me. He just got pissed and he lost his cool with it. And when he wasn't being put back right away into that same position where he thought the guy is now trying to up again, take another advantage.

• 2:15:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:15:31Speaker 01

  It just sent him off the end and he said, I'm done.

• 2:15:34Joe Rogan?

  Right. He just got too emotional.

• 2:15:35Speaker 01

  He got too emotional with it.

• 2:15:36Joe Rogan?

  That's a bummer.

• 2:15:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. Because Joe's a great guy.

• 2:15:39Speaker 03

  When you fought at the level he's fought at, you expect a certain level of professionalism.

• 2:15:43Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:15:43Speaker 03

  And when you have these young guys that come in, there's no, it feels a little disrespectful. Like you knew where you were at. Why are you trying to game the system right now?

• 2:15:49Joe Rogan?

  Also, he just headbutted him.

• 2:15:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:51Joe Rogan?

  Which is crazy.

• 2:15:52Speaker 01

  Oh, and there's a lot of people saying, well, you know, I don't think it really hit him. It hit him in the jaw. Okay, it didn't hit him head to head. And you're not allowed to use your head as a striking instrument. It's a foul.

• 2:16:00Joe Rogan?

  And it's pretty clear that he was trying to do that.

• 2:16:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:16:02Joe Rogan?

  It wasn't as simple as like positioning his head, try to get a better.

• 2:16:06Speaker 01

  Look, we say you can use your head as a steering instrument, as a third arm. You can press with it. You can do a lot of uncomfortable things with it. You cannot pick it up and bring it back to strike.

• 2:16:16Joe Rogan?

  And it was clear that that's what he was doing.

• 2:16:17Speaker 01

  That's exactly what he did.

• 2:16:19Joe Rogan?

  I think it's just very awkward for a lot of people that see Joe Schilling in his past fights. He's been through it all and then for him to get super frustrated this way. It was a lot of people questioned. I'm like, I don't question it all because you expect, like you said, a certain level of professionalism. Like, we know that we're both going out there to fight and knock each other out. Why do you gotta cheat?

• 2:16:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a certain, there's a certain set of rules that we're doing this under, right? And now you're taking those rules and just tossing them to the side like, you know, this doesn't mean something. No, it means something to me. You know, I'm 42 years of age and I don't expect someone to be fouling me just on purpose. And then, look, the whole, no matter what, that was, you know, right now we use intent, okay? That was intentional.

• 2:16:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:16:59Speaker 01

  He did something. I call it malicious. It's a malicious attack on him, you know? You're maliciously trying to inflict an injury on someone through a foul.

• 2:17:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, no doubt.

• 2:17:10Speaker 03

  Did you watch the MVP fights?

• 2:17:11Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:17:12Speaker 03

  What was your takeaway on that?

• 2:17:14Joe Rogan?

  Um.

• 2:17:14Speaker 03

  The overall card as well as the Gina and, you know, and Rhonda fight?

• 2:17:18Joe Rogan?

  I mean, look, when you're coming in as your first time putting on a promotion, there's no way it's all gonna be smooth. It's not possible. You know, it's just, there's no way. You, you're also, you're not dealing with the same caliber of names other than Gina and Rhonda and Francis, you know? The Mike Perry, Nate Diaz fight was, um, when was the last time Nate fought MMA?

• 2:17:43Speaker 01

  It's been a while.

• 2:17:44Speaker 03

  Probably six years.

• 2:17:45Speaker 01

  Been a while.

• 2:17:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, probably somewhere around there. Which is kind of crazy, right? And Mike has been fighting bare knuckle and fucking people up for quite a while.

• 2:17:54Speaker 01

  Dude.

• 2:17:54Joe Rogan?

  He's an animal, dude.

• 2:17:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:56Speaker 01

  He's, he is.

• 2:17:57Speaker 03

  He's found, he's found his sport, though.

• 2:17:59Joe Rogan?

  2022, so four years ago. Four years ago, he beat Tony Ferguson.

• 2:18:03Speaker 03

  But he's found his way. This is, this is stylistically his, the best thing he could do for his career is fight bare knuckle, fight, fight boxing. This is the best thing for him.

• 2:18:12Joe Rogan?

  And Mike is like, Uniquely talented at bare knuckle.

• 2:18:16Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:18:16Joe Rogan?

  Like uniquely.

• 2:18:17Speaker 01

  He's made, he's made, look, I'm being honest, I used him as my, my demonstrator for, you know, Andy Foster is the executive officer in California and he didn't like bare knuckle. You know, I wrote the rules for bare knuckle long ago. And Dave Feldman came to me and said, hey, you know, I need, I need rules written for me. I'm trying to legalize this. You know, someone, someone that I knew hooked, hooked him up with me and I said, look, I'll write your rules and go, and I gave him two prices. And I said, I'm not, I'm not doing it for free. It's too much of a pain in the ass. So here's my two prices. My one price is you don't say who wrote them and you just use them. And the other price is you say who wrote, and it was because I knew I was going to get in trouble for doing this and, and, you know, oh, what does John McCarthy think he's doing? Now he's writing rules for them.

• 2:19:02Joe Rogan?

  Did you write the rules for slap fights?

• 2:19:03Speaker 01

  No, I don't like slap fights. I hate, I hate those. But, so.

• 2:19:08Joe Rogan?

  You can't defend yourself. That's it. That's the only fucking rule.

• 2:19:11Speaker 01

  Dumbest thing ever.

• 2:19:13Joe Rogan?

  So. Crazy.

• 2:19:15Speaker 01

  You know, have you seen the other, where they just run at each other?

• 2:19:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no, it's even worse. They're like, hold my beer.

• 2:19:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:20Joe Rogan?

  You think slap fights are retarded? Hold my beer. We're just going to run at each other fullback.

• 2:19:24Speaker 01

  That's what it's called, run it. Right? Those things are crazy.

• 2:19:26Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 2:19:27Speaker 01

  But the, the whole thing with, you know, the Mike Perry thing is, you know, trying to get athletic commissions to start to understand, because they're all into this thing. Joe, it's like, you take a look at MMA. I'm allowed to hit you with a shin to the dome, like you talked about. You know, I'm allowed to take my knee and hit it to your dome. I'm allowed to take my elbow and smash you, you know, even when your head's against the ground. I'm allowed to do all these things, but my bare fist is the big problem.

• 2:19:54Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of funny.

• 2:19:55Speaker 01

  Oh, it's ridiculous, but it's perception and perception is, it's a real problem because people believe what they're saying. Oh, it's horrible. So, you know, Andy Foster was one of the ones that he, I don't, he didn't, he didn't like it. And I said, Andy, as, you know, I tried saying, it's, go through those whole things with the shin, the knee, the elbow. And he goes, yeah, I know. He says, I just don't, I don't like it. I said, Andy, I need you to look at it this way then. I go, there are people out there that are made for boxing. Floyd Mayweather, Terrence Crawford, Canelo.

• 2:20:24Speaker 01

  Alvarez, they're made to be a boxer. They have all this technical skill. You know what? They're just unbelievable. I said, there's these guys, same thing in MMA. There's the George St. Pierre's. You know, you got the Alexander Volkanovski's. You got the, all these people, you know, that are, you know, Islam Makarchev was the last one I used. I said, they're made for MMA. I go, Mike Perry was an MMA fighter. I said, he's not made for MMA. He's a tough guy. I go, but bare knuckle, he was made for. I said, and this is a guy who can make a living fighting for bare knuckle. He can pay his bills. He can support his family fighting bare knuckle.

• 2:21:04Joe Rogan?

  And become a star.

• 2:21:05Speaker 01

  I said, and possibly get, you know, sponsors and everything that are gonna make it so he can live the rest of his life. I said, and you're gonna say that you wanna take that away because of a bare fist? I go, it just doesn't make sense to me. And he looks at me and goes, you're right.

• 2:21:23Joe Rogan?

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• 2:23:21Speaker 03

  The best thing that could have happened to him was him leaving. Like him being released from the UFC or leaving the UFC?

• 2:23:25Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

• 2:23:27Speaker 03

  You've got an old-timey ring.

• 2:23:30Joe Rogan?

  Andy Foster's calling you. That's funny. Put him on speakerphone.

• 2:23:36Joe Rogan?

  I don't want to put Andy under the spotlight like that.

• 2:23:38Speaker 01

  You know, and Andy's done such a great job. He does things that people don't realize. You know, he's now got a license plate that's out for retired fighters to try to get them a retirement. He's got a retirement for boxers already that was set. He's been doing things to try to get a retirement fund for, you know, a Josh Thompson who fought 15 times in California.

• 2:23:59Speaker 03

  19, I looked it up.

• 2:24:00Speaker 01

  Is it 19? Okay, I'm wrong. 19 times in California, he can get an actual retirement. Now, it's not going to be a retirement that he gets paid every month. They'll give him a large sum of money that he can then go, he can go to a trade school, he can go to, he could buy a house. He can do these things as a down payment. Andy just put in a thing, it just got turned down because of a staffer. It was Assembly Bill 2130 in California. And that Assembly Bill was no money out of the taxpayers' money, zero taxpayer money. It's about sponsorship. A dumbass like me as a referee has to wear a sponsor's thing on my shirt.

• 2:24:40Speaker 01

  That will then, 75% of it went to retired fighters. 25% of it went to training for...

• 2:24:51Speaker 01

  Upcoming and in-service officials, both judges and referees.

• 2:24:55Speaker 03

  What's the negative?

• 2:24:56Speaker 01

  There is no negative, but you get these people in politics that sit there and go, "Oh, I don't like this." You want to know what their negative was?

• 2:25:05Joe Rogan?

  This is in California, by the way.

• 2:25:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is in California.

• 2:25:06Speaker 03

  California's the best state for decisions.

• 2:25:11Speaker 01

  But their whole thing was-

• 2:25:13Joe Rogan?

  As we both live in Texas now.

• 2:25:15Speaker 01

  Think about this, we all. We all left there. But their whole thing was, "Well, that would allow the sponsor to say that they're basically part of California, and they're running, they're doing things for California." It's like, they are doing things for California. They're helping the people that fucking put on fucking entertaining fights and things for people here. It's ridiculous. There was nothing good. There's some great people in California. There are.

• 2:25:39Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:25:40Speaker 01

  You know, and there's some great Assembly people. You know, I just did a whole thing for, you know, Heath Flora, who's an Assemblyman there, and he's putting up a bill about you being able to, if you protect somebody other than yourself, and from somebody that's trying to do something, he's trying to make it to where they can't civilly go after you. Makes sense.

• 2:25:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:25:59Speaker 01

  You're doing the right thing.

• 2:26:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:26:00Speaker 01

  But no, there's people fighting against it.

• 2:26:02Speaker 03

  Why?

• 2:26:03Speaker 01

  It's just, oh, politics. Politics suck.

• 2:26:07Joe Rogan?

  They suck in California.

• 2:26:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:09Speaker 01

  My dad always used to say, think about the word "politics." Poly, meaning many, ticks, blood-sucking little insect.

• 2:26:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's a bummer.

• 2:26:21Speaker 01

  It's a bummer. It's crazy.

• 2:26:22Speaker 03

  And then, uh, did you, did you see that Coker's returning to MMA?

• 2:26:26Joe Rogan?

  I did.

• 2:26:28Speaker 03

  Give me, give me, give me your take.

• 2:26:29Joe Rogan?

  I like Scott a lot, but good luck. You only have $60 million.

• 2:26:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:35Joe Rogan?

  When I saw it was only $60 million, I was like, "That sounds like a lot of money." Until you think about putting on an MMA promotion-

• 2:26:41Speaker 03

  It's hard.

• 2:26:41Joe Rogan?

  And then getting television production, and then, you know, paying fighters, and then securing venues, and then having staff full-time for like-

• 2:26:52Joe Rogan?

  Maybe, you know, you got Tony Hawk with you, maybe.

• 2:26:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:55Joe Rogan?

  I mean, look, I'm rooting for him. I think he did great when he was running Glory as well as when he was running Bellator back in the day. He's a really nice guy.

• 2:27:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:03Joe Rogan?

  I think it's great for everybody if there's more competition.

• 2:27:06Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 2:27:07Joe Rogan?

  I think this whole MVP thing and the Netflix thing is great. It stirred a bunch of cash into the organization.

• 2:27:13Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:27:13Joe Rogan?

  A bunch of people got more money than they would've ever gotten anywhere else. Awesome. I'm, I'm, more options, the better.

• 2:27:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think-

• 2:27:20Joe Rogan?

  Just, you know, I hope he could do it.

• 2:27:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. I, I think a lot of us, I think a lot, I think a lot of people do.

• 2:27:26Joe Rogan?

  Fucking hard.

• 2:27:26Speaker 03

  Cause I think as, as they do grow promotions, right, the fighters get more experience on a high level competition.

• 2:27:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:32Speaker 03

  To fight fighters from all around the world. I'm just excited for more promotions to be involved.

• 2:27:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, more promotions is good. More options is good. More money is what we really want. The fighters need to get more money.

• 2:27:42Speaker 03

  It's, it's always gonna be the UFC here.

• 2:27:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:45Speaker 03

  You know, and ultimately it just comes down like you need more people to build up to get to that level.

• 2:27:49Joe Rogan?

  Name a good XFL game that you watched.

• 2:27:52Speaker 03

  You know what I'm saying?

• 2:27:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's true. Nothing wrong. I'm sure there's great athletes.

• 2:27:56Speaker 01

  But it's, it's the whole thing and you know, you're part of it. You, you know, what you did with the UFC and how you made it exciting for people when you were calling fights. So, you know, it's a, people now, a lot of them, they don't even know the fighters that are on the card. But they'll, they'll turn it on when it says UFC because they believe in the product.

• 2:28:13Speaker 03

  Yep, right.

• 2:28:14Speaker 01

  And that's, that's what you're supposed to do as, as the company and, and for marketing. But the one problem I do think that they have right now is they're unable to market people like they did when, you know, you and I were early in it and stuff. You know, they now are in a position every week. And so it's tough to market, you know, those, the guys who are not well-known. If you're not-

• 2:28:36Joe Rogan?

  I mean, the Fight Nights, a lot of times the casuals have no idea there's even a Fight Night on. And some of them are fucking insane.

• 2:28:41Speaker 01

  Oh, some of the, some of the best shows. We talk about all the time. It's like, you know, the, the card itself rates, if you're looking at it honestly, it rates a five.

• 2:28:49Speaker 03

  On paper.

• 2:28:50Speaker 01

  It rates a 5.5.

• 2:28:51Speaker 03

  On paper.

• 2:28:52Speaker 01

  And then you'll watch it and it's a 9.5.

• 2:28:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:54Speaker 01

  You know?

• 2:28:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:55Speaker 03

  They're working to get to the top. That's-

• 2:28:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:28:57Speaker 03

  Those are the hungry ones.

• 2:28:58Speaker 01

  They got something to prove.

• 2:28:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and for hardcore fans, it's like giving them constant food.

• 2:29:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29:02Joe Rogan?

  Like, look, have another steak.

• 2:29:03Speaker 03

  Or drugs. Right.

• 2:29:06Joe Rogan?

  But it's giving them that dopamine.

• 2:29:07Speaker 03

  It's over.

• 2:29:08Speaker 01

  It is the thing when you look at it, it's the hardcore fan that the UFC has. But the casual one's the one that puts it over.

• 2:29:14Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:29:15Speaker 01

  And it's hard to get people to understand, you need to get the casuals, the ones that don't watch fights all the time. And that's the one thing I'll give, I'll give Ronda Rousey, man, I thought she did an amazing job of talking.

• 2:29:26Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent.

• 2:29:26Speaker 01

  And putting, you know, things out there the way she did, she made, she got people's attention. She did what was her job.

• 2:29:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and they, 17 million people are watching that.

• 2:29:35Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 2:29:36Joe Rogan?

  That's huge.

• 2:29:37Speaker 03

  That is.

• 2:29:37Joe Rogan?

  It's all good for everybody. It's good for the sport. It's great for the sport. It's like, that's what we need. We need more competition. More, more eyeballs on it. And unfortunately for the, you know, the people that are casuals, it has to be a name. You know, it has to like, this Conor McGregor fight in July is gonna be fucking bananas. It's gonna be bananas. I mean, people are gonna go crazy for the return of Conor McGregor because he's a giant personality.

• 2:29:59Speaker 01

  But don't expect the same.

• 2:30:01Joe Rogan?

  How could it be?

• 2:30:01Speaker 01

  You just can't.

• 2:30:02Joe Rogan?

  He hasn't fought in five years, right?

• 2:30:03Speaker 01

  That's exactly it.

• 2:30:04Joe Rogan?

  It's been five years.

• 2:30:05Speaker 01

  But that's the problem.

• 2:30:06Joe Rogan?

  Might be more.

• 2:30:06Speaker 01

  Because they're gonna all expect that.

• 2:30:08Speaker 03

  I think it is a little over five. It's almost six, I think.

• 2:30:10Joe Rogan?

  It might be six at the time of the fight.

• 2:30:12Speaker 01

  It's, it might be, I think it's five. I think it's five right now.

• 2:30:15Speaker 03

  Do, do, are we expecting to see a Conor that look like Nate this last fight? Are we expecting to see a better Conor than someone that look like Nate? Because Nate did not look good.

• 2:30:24Joe Rogan?

  No, and Mike Perry did. Mike Perry looked like a fucking murderer.

• 2:30:27Speaker 03

  You know what I mean, like?

• 2:30:28Speaker 01

  Mike Perry is a murderer.

• 2:30:29Speaker 03

  He's a murderer.

• 2:30:30Joe Rogan?

  And this is. Such a savage.

• 2:30:32Speaker 01

  You take a look at that, when you're taking an older fighter, which Nate is now.

• 2:30:37Joe Rogan?

  Twenty-one. Five fucking years ago, July. So it literally will be six years.

• 2:30:42Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:30:43Joe Rogan?

  And, but when you're taking. Oh, no, it'll be five years. It'll be five years.

• 2:30:46Speaker 01

  When you're taking a younger fighter and putting them against the old dog, it normally doesn't end well for the old dog.

• 2:30:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, the thing is about Max Holloway is like, Max Holloway isn't that much younger than Conor.

• 2:30:58Speaker 01

  He's not.

• 2:30:59Joe Rogan?

  But the thing is, Max has been in constant high level competition the entire time. Won the BMF fight, you know, beat Dustin, like, constant high level competition.

• 2:31:08Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 2:31:08Joe Rogan?

  It's a different thing.

• 2:31:09Speaker 03

  And I honestly believe him at 155 is the best thing for him.

• 2:31:12Joe Rogan?

  Absolutely.

• 2:31:13Speaker 01

  But he's not 155 in this fight.

• 2:31:14Joe Rogan?

  This is 170.

• 2:31:15Speaker 03

  But, honestly, he may be, he might be better.

• 2:31:18Joe Rogan?

  No way cutting at all.

• 2:31:18Speaker 03

  Just no weight cut, just kinda walk around.

• 2:31:20Joe Rogan?

  And also, knowing this is such a high profile fight, he's gonna, I mean, Max is always in insane shape. But in particularly in this fight, he's gonna be in fucking insane shape.

• 2:31:28Speaker 03

  And his last fight, he took almost no damage.

• 2:31:30Joe Rogan?

  He got, he got taken down, controlled, back taken, and there was not a lot of damage.

• 2:31:34Speaker 01

  No, just frustration.

• 2:31:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, frustration. Bro, Charles looked like a motherfucker in that fight, didn't he? He's so good. Dude. He's so good. Good everywhere, too. And on the ground, he's just so goddamn dangerous. And it, which just makes you think, how good is Islam? Because Islam just smushed him. I can tell you, he's really good.

• 2:31:54Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it's kind of crazy, though, when you think about how strong Charles' grappling is, and how Islam just... Yeah.

• 2:32:00Speaker 01

  Dude, he called it. He called it. He said, he goes, he goes, Islam is gonna submit Charles. And he, and he goes, and he's gonna submit him with a head-on arm choke.

• 2:32:10Joe Rogan?

  I said Kimura or head-on arm. I said either one, for sure.

• 2:32:13Speaker 01

  I go, shut up.

• 2:32:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:14Speaker 01

  Okay, just shut up. He's not gonna do that.

• 2:32:16Joe Rogan?

  I said he would do it before three rounds. He did it, you know, obviously very quick, but it was... His grappling is just otherworldly. And the way he secures that darts by grabbing the forearm. Well, I've seen a lot of guys try that now. A lot of guys are going to that now. Because you don't have to get as deep. So you just go through and then just right at the top and then cover, cover the chest with your, cover the head with your chest and just suck it in.

• 2:32:36Speaker 01

  You see people doing things all, you know, we always talk about, you know, back a long time ago, figure four in the body. We go, don't do that. They step the foot inside, it's gonna, it cranks you. It's bad.

• 2:32:46Joe Rogan?

  How about that crazy...

• 2:32:47Speaker 01

  They just had the girl do it.

• 2:32:48Joe Rogan?

  Guillotine that A.J. McKee does.

• 2:32:50Speaker 01

  Oh, the, the McKee-otine.

• 2:32:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. How about that fucking thing? Like, how come no one's doing that?

• 2:32:56Speaker 01

  That's the whole thing. Look, okay, look at what Grant...

• 2:32:59Joe Rogan?

  When he did that, I was like, wait. Yeah, his body style, he's so long, he's able to reach him.

• 2:33:03Speaker 01

  Especially at 145.

• 2:33:04Joe Rogan?

  He's huge for 145.

• 2:33:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33:06Joe Rogan?

  He's a big boy.

• 2:33:07Speaker 01

  But Grant Dawson just did the genie choke. Okay? How many times have you seen that done in competition? But I've seen it in, in the, the grappling room all the time.

• 2:33:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:33:17Speaker 01

  Guys doing it, right? And all of a sudden, people are like, never seen that. And it's like, dude, it's been around forever.

• 2:33:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's like when we talked about Edson Barboza knocking out Terry Edom. How did he get to that fight before that was the first wheel kick KO?

• 2:33:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, you've seen a ton of them since then, but that was the first one? Like, that doesn't even make sense. When Anderson Silva front kicked Vitor in the face, we were like, wait, hold on! You could do that?

• 2:33:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:33:37Joe Rogan?

  Like, I remember Eddie and I having a conversation about kicks, and he goes, what do you think about front kicks to the face? I'm like, eh, doesn't really land that often. Incorrect.

• 2:33:46Speaker 03

  And then Machida does it to Randy, and then Machida does it to Vitor.

• 2:33:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 2:33:50Speaker 03

  So Vitor's been on the receiving end of, twice on that kick.

• 2:33:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man. I mean, there's been a bunch of them now. Now you see a lot of front kicks to the face. Cause it's such an unexpected thing, especially if a guy's, you know, you're getting hit to the body with it a bunch, and you're getting used to doing this, and then dong, hits you right on the chin. It's just such a, such an unexpected technique.

• 2:34:11Speaker 03

  Every time we think that we're not gonna see something new, something new pops up.

• 2:34:14Joe Rogan?

  But the crazy thing about front kicks is it's literally the first thing you ever get taught.

• 2:34:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:17Joe Rogan?

  When you learn how to kick, that's the first thing you ever get taught. The idea of there being a new use for the first thing you ever learn.

• 2:34:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:24Joe Rogan?

  Is kind of crazy.

• 2:34:25Speaker 03

  A little snap kick.

• 2:34:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:26Speaker 01

  That's nuts.

• 2:34:27Joe Rogan?

  I mean, karate, like, that's day one.

• 2:34:33Joe Rogan?

  Just like that. Exactly. That's what it looks like, too. Like, all goofy and shit. The fact that that's the kick that, and then calf kicks, of course. Like, that's number one. You know, it's interesting, cause Cub Swanson's actually saying that he was the first guy to throw calf kicks. He was saying, like, no, no, no, go back to, like, 2011. I was landing calf kicks. I forget who he fought. They said he fucked somebody up with a calf kick.

• 2:34:56Speaker 03

  Well, then I'll tell you before that, though, was, was...

• 2:34:59Joe Rogan?

  Benson was one of the early ones, for sure.

• 2:35:00Speaker 03

  George Masvidal.

• 2:35:02Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:35:02Speaker 03

  Yes. He was doing it in Strikeforce in 2007, 2008.

• 2:35:05Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:35:06Speaker 01

  Well, I believe you...

• 2:35:07Speaker 03

  Around that time.

• 2:35:08Speaker 01

  If you look at ATT as a team, they do calf kicks all the time. That is a huge weapon that they use.

• 2:35:16Speaker 03

  You go back and watch Masvidal when he fought KJ Noons, and how he just destroyed KJ Noons. And he was kept kicking him to the calf, to the head kick, to the body shots, to the boxing. He just pieced him up.

• 2:35:27Joe Rogan?

  People forgot how good Masvidal was. When he knocked out Eve Edwards, with a head kick, like, people really sleep on Masvidal.

• 2:35:34Speaker 01

  Masvidal was slick.

• 2:35:35Speaker 03

  He was so good.

• 2:35:36Joe Rogan?

  When he knocked out Cowboy, people were like, oh. When he knocked out Darren Till?

• 2:35:40Speaker 01

  Darren Till?

• 2:35:40Joe Rogan?

  How about that one? That one was bananas. That step in hook.

• 2:35:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:35:43Joe Rogan?

  Woo!

• 2:35:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, cause that was a weight class above what he normally fought.

• 2:35:46Joe Rogan?

  Yep, yep.

• 2:35:47Speaker 03

  You know, he's, he was one of those sleeper guys.

• 2:35:49Joe Rogan?

  But he was better when he went up, just like most guys are.

• 2:35:51Speaker 03

  But he never got the credit he deserved. Everywhere he went, whether it was Strike... into the UFC, he never got credit until he started doing things that people didn't think he could do.

• 2:35:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:35:59Speaker 03

  You know, when he knocked out, like you said, Darren Till, the running across the cage with Ben Askren, like those kind of things. He had no love up until those moments.

• 2:36:06Joe Rogan?

  True.

• 2:36:07Speaker 03

  That guy was always nasty.

• 2:36:08Joe Rogan?

  Always, yeah.

• 2:36:09Speaker 01

  Dude, all the way back to his street fighting days with Kimbo.

• 2:36:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:36:12Speaker 01

  You know, he had some good ones.

• 2:36:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:15Speaker 03

  That's, I, I have this, I wanted to ask you this because I look at these guys now, what is it with the younger fighters that can't get past the old dogs? Like Dustin doesn't have to retire. Justin Gacy doesn't have to retire, they're still ranked in number two and number three. What are you seeing on your side? That makes you think like, man, these, these young guys, these old guys, they're not going softly into the night. They're not letting these guys come by. Why can't the younger guys get past them? Patty not being able to get past Justin like those kind of things.

• 2:36:40Joe Rogan?

  Patty was not at Justin's level with stand up.

• 2:36:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:36:43Joe Rogan?

  Justin's level was like quite a bit. First of all, Justin is an elite grappler. So like, what is Patty gonna do? Is he gonna take him down? That's not, that's no picnic. And standing up with Justin, Justin has like some of the nastiest fucking leg kicks in the sport.

• 2:36:58Speaker 03

  I wish he'd use them more.

• 2:36:59Joe Rogan?

  I know, right? Remember when he used to throw them from the clinch?

• 2:37:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:37:02Joe Rogan?

  Like he's in tight with you and he's kicking down on your legs like, and you're like, how are you moving your hips like that? He was an animal. He still is an animal. It's like, he's not, he hasn't faded. You know, Justin's not faded. That Fazev fight, Fazev is an elite world-class striker and he beat him up standing.

• 2:37:19Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:37:20Speaker 01

  Twice.

• 2:37:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he hasn't faded. Ju- Ju- Justin hasn't faded. He's just 36 or whatever he is, 37.

• 2:37:27Speaker 01

  I think he's losing, but you, you gotta have a passion for the sport. And, and I think Dana's, you know, says, look at, if you're not 100% in.

• 2:37:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:37:37Speaker 01

  Don't do this. And he, and he's right. And I think there comes that point where it just gets to that. You know what? There's, there's other things out in the world that I want to start doing and things.

• 2:37:46Speaker 03

  Do you think Justin's at that spot right now?

• 2:37:48Speaker 01

  I'm not too sure he's at that spot, but I think he's thought about it based upon some of the performances and, and the tight fights he's had. I think the, I think the fight with Max Holloway made him kind of think about, he had, that was a tough fight for him, all the way through.

• 2:38:01Speaker 03

  All the way through.

• 2:38:02Speaker 01

  All the way through.

• 2:38:02Speaker 03

  I think he, he lives a comfortable life.

• 2:38:04Speaker 01

  He does.

• 2:38:05Speaker 03

  He lives a good life. He enjoys playing golf with the boys. You know, he, he's, um,

• 2:38:10Joe Rogan?

  He's another guy, I know he's like, "Oh, I've spent money, I need to make more money," and this and that. But he also, to me, every time I take a look and when people talk about him, I think that he's done pretty, he's done really well for himself. I think he's doing well for himself. I don't think he's in any danger where he's losing the passion of it.

• 2:38:25Speaker 01

  Well, I did the Naked Gun, whatever, the second edition of the Naked Gun with Liam Neeson. And we had Kamaru Usman and Justin Gaethje were two of the fighters in it, right? And he was hysterical throughout the whole thing, right? And he's such a button pusher with Kamaru, you know, Kamaru would say, "Okay, let's go easy." And all of a sudden, you know, Justin's doing something crazy. And Kamaru's like, "What the hell's wrong with you?"

• 2:38:50Speaker 01

  He loves life, he enjoys life. And I think that, you know, there comes a point where, he always had that attitude, you know, when he was undefeated, he goes, "Oh, someone's gonna knock me out." He's honest about things, and I love that about him. That he doesn't sit there, he doesn't play the, you know, "Oh, well, we'll see," and stuff. He's honest, and he tells you, "You know what? You know, this may be my last one." And he's thought about it, and if he's thought about it, it's telling you, it's a thought process is there, how far will it go? If he has a great performance against Ilya, I think he'll stick around.

• 2:39:20Joe Rogan?

  Maybe.

• 2:39:20Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, I kinda think I'd rather see him go away. I know that's saying, because I love watching him.

• 2:39:26Joe Rogan?

  I would love to see him win and go away, that would be nuts.

• 2:39:27Speaker 01

  That's the whole point, that's what I said.

• 2:39:29Joe Rogan?

  That would be nuts. If he, that's how he wins the title at the fucking White House.

• 2:39:33Speaker 01

  And that says, "That's it, I've hit my bucket list."

• 2:39:36Joe Rogan?

  The White House thing is odd, um, I don't like it. I don't like the idea of fighting outside, at all.

• 2:39:43Speaker 01

  There's problems with it, done it too many times.

• 2:39:45Joe Rogan?

  And then it's June, and it's DC, and we looked it up, the last time, like, last year, same day, it was 100 degrees.

• 2:39:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:53Joe Rogan?

  That's hot as fuck.

• 2:39:54Speaker 03

  Then you add the lights.

• 2:39:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:39:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the lights.

• 2:39:56Speaker 03

  You add the lights, that attracts bugs.

• 2:39:58Joe Rogan?

  How about dehydration?

• 2:39:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:40:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the bugs are a big one.

• 2:40:01Speaker 01

  Go back to UFC, yeah, with all those lights?

• 2:40:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:04Speaker 01

  Go back to UFC 3, see how hot it was.

• 2:40:06Joe Rogan?

  How are they gonna fucking do anything about the bugs? Because I know that Dana was talking about that recently, they were talking about maybe using fans. Is that enough?

• 2:40:14Speaker 03

  No, it's not enough.

• 2:40:14Joe Rogan?

  You got bug strips everywhere, what are you gonna do? Like, how are you gonna stop the bugs? There's a lot of bugs.

• 2:40:19Speaker 03

  You can spray, that's pretty much all you can do.

• 2:40:20Joe Rogan?

  Pesticide the shit out of the fucking land.

• 2:40:22Speaker 01

  That's good for the fighters. That'll help with their breathing.

• 2:40:27Joe Rogan?

  I just don't think that you should compete in a world championship fight in a non-controlled environment. I think it should be inside an air-conditioned arena. It should be a controlled environment, just like every, like, you don't ask someone to do any of that. You wouldn't ask them to play a world championship basketball game outside in the sun. That'd be crazy.

• 2:40:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:40:47Joe Rogan?

  Right? You have to, you play in a fucking air-conditioned arena, and that's how it should be.

• 2:40:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree with you. But I understand the whole thing.

• 2:40:53Joe Rogan?

  I get it too, but, listen.

• 2:40:55Speaker 01

  But it's gonna be a pain in the butt.

• 2:40:56Joe Rogan?

  Build a fucking roof.

• 2:40:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:40:58Joe Rogan?

  Build a roof. Like, you've got all the money in the world, right? You doing this, you wanna do this for fucking America?

• 2:41:04Speaker 01

  I don't know, it's not my money.

• 2:41:05Joe Rogan?

  It's 4,000 seats? You build a 4,000-seat arena. How big is it? Get a fucking barn dominium. Put it in there. You know, like, we did UFC's, uh, the troops.

• 2:41:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41:15Joe Rogan?

  We did them in the troops, we did them in hangars.

• 2:41:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, we did, but they want that White House in the background.

• 2:41:21Joe Rogan?

  Put it in the background on TV. Who gives a fuck? It's just like, when world-class fighters are competing, I don't think they should have to compete outside.

• 2:41:28Speaker 01

  Look at, they're already, they're already putting it in there.

• 2:41:29Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if someone loses a fight because it's too hot out.

• 2:41:33Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:41:34Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if that becomes a factor. Imagine the dehydrated fighters. Like, the dehydrated fighters that are now being forced 24 hours later to fight.

• 2:41:43Speaker 03

  In 100-degree heat outside, under the spotlight.

• 2:41:45Speaker 01

  Go back, I swear to God, UFC 3 was in North Carolina, and it was the hottest thing I've ever been in in my life.

• 2:41:52Joe Rogan?

  It was outside, UFC 3?

• 2:41:53Speaker 01

  No, no, it wasn't. It was inside with no air conditioning really inside. They put, there was, it was a 3,500-seat arena, they put 6,000 people into it. It was, uh, under the lights, had to be 150 degrees. Okay? It was, you saw everyone falling out. Hoist had the problem after chemo and stuff. You know, Ken Shamrock fell out, they all pulled out and stuff. It was, Joe, it was the hottest thing I've ever been in in my life. It was brutal.

• 2:42:21Joe Rogan?

  You have to ask yourself as a fighter, though, is the spectacle worth my career?

• 2:42:25Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:42:26Joe Rogan?

  Like, is it worth me going out there and fighting?

• 2:42:30Speaker 03

  In the, in these circumstances that I'm not used to.

• 2:42:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, we did one outside at Abu Dhabi. That was when BJ Penn and Frank Edgar fought and then Damian Maia and Anderson Silva. And that one, bro, there were bugs flying around. It looked like birds. They were so big. I was like, that's a bug? What kind of bug is that? Can that kill me? Like, this is crazy. You're in the fucking desert, man. There's some giant ass bug flying by.

• 2:42:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:42:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, bro.

• 2:42:56Speaker 03

  Make sure your microphone's up, picking it up.

• 2:42:58Speaker 01

  Sounds like a helicopter coming by.

• 2:43:00Joe Rogan?

  You're outside. It's hot. You're in the desert. This is crazy. Like, why are we fighting outside?

• 2:43:04Speaker 03

  No, because I think I had read somewhere where Habib had said, no, I prefer Islam not take a fight there at the White House. There's too many distractions. You got all the media. You got the, that whole week. Plus, it's outside. These are all things that your fighter is not used to doing. Why would I jeopardize his win streak, his, his second title? Why would I jeopardize all of that? Yeah, his legacy, everything. Just so we can fight at the White House? I know it seems great. Yeah, I was, I fought there, but at the end of the day. You gotta look at it. I worked so hard to get here. I don't want to lose it over this one thing.

• 2:43:31Joe Rogan?

  I just feel like you could put a roof over it.

• 2:43:35Joe Rogan?

  I mean, you got all this money. You're making a ballroom? Make a fucking, make a little, do it just on a regular basis.

• 2:43:39Speaker 03

  I mean, are they, are they making, are they finishing the ballroom? Are we gonna get that? Make your own, I don't know.

• 2:43:44Joe Rogan?

  Make your own Apex Center.

• 2:43:46Speaker 01

  Boom.

• 2:43:46Joe Rogan?

  Come on. Make a fucking bar in Dominion. How hard is that?

• 2:43:50Speaker 01

  Hard. Trust me, I just finished one. Oh, my God.

• 2:43:53Joe Rogan?

  But you're one guy.

• 2:43:54Speaker 01

  Oh, exactly.

• 2:43:55Joe Rogan?

  Get a fucking team of United States Civil Engineers. Get the fucking, the army to do it.

• 2:44:03Speaker 01

  So you're gonna be at that one?

• 2:44:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna be there. Allegedly.

• 2:44:06Speaker 01

  Allegedly.

• 2:44:06Joe Rogan?

  If there's not a bomb that goes off between now and then. Who, who fucking knows? This world is crazy.

• 2:44:11Speaker 01

  I love what you did with the Iba game with him, man.

• 2:44:13Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 2:44:13Speaker 01

  Way to go.

• 2:44:14Speaker 03

  Well, what was the process on that? How long did that take?

• 2:44:16Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't care what the process was. Way to go.

• 2:44:18Joe Rogan?

  Thank you. The process was me texting Trump. Literally. I'm not bullshitting. I'm not bullshitting. I texted him on Friday. He showed up to the UFC on Saturday, shook my hand and said, it's done.

• 2:44:30Speaker 01

  You're kidding.

• 2:44:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no, I'm not kidding at all. No, I texted him, he texted me back, are you looking for FDA approval? Sounds good to me. I tell him how effective it is at helping all these veterans with PTSD, people with traumatic brain injuries, all these different things. People, I mean, we have a problem with fentanyl in this country. This is one of the best things that we've ever demonstrated. I'm like, listen, there's so many people that risk their life for this country, they come back and there's no help, and this is the only thing that they've found helping.

• 2:44:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:44:56Joe Rogan?

  And it's illegal, and that doesn't make any sense. You shouldn't have to go to Mexico to get treatment for something that you got because you were defending your country. It's nuts. And so, he, right away, he was like, look, this makes sense to me. Like, he cut through all the bullshit.

• 2:45:11Speaker 01

  Oh, like, common sense?

• 2:45:12Joe Rogan?

  And there was a bunch of people that were trying to get in the way of it. A bunch of people. I mean, inside the White House, people that were trying to get, and he's like, fuck you, fuck you, do it. And he, like, was telling them, just do it, make it happen. And he made it happen. And that's amazing for everybody.

• 2:45:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it was amazing that, you know what, you stepped up, because you are gonna be helping so many people. I don't think, people don't have an idea of how bad it is and what that can do for them, so, I think, way to God. I was like, God, see, I always say, you always talk about you're a dummy, I'm a dummy. I always tell people, he's super intelligent. And you are, because you got that done. It just proves it.

• 2:45:51Joe Rogan?

  I never asked him for anything else. I've never asked him for anything, never.

• 2:45:56Speaker 01

  Maybe a signing pen or something?

• 2:45:58Joe Rogan?

  He gave me those, I didn't even ask. I've got a bunch of stuff, I got a pen, I got a bunch of things. But, I was like, if there's anything that I would really ask him for, that is, it's bipartisan supported. Like, Democrats support it, Republicans support it, 85% of the country supports it. Especially when it comes to things like Ibergame, which is not even remotely recreational.

• 2:46:17Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:46:18Joe Rogan?

  I haven't done it.

• 2:46:18Speaker 01

  Makes people sick.

• 2:46:19Joe Rogan?

  Everybody's done it, it's horrible, you get diarrhea, but it's 24 hours of misery, but when it's over, you're a new person.

• 2:46:25Speaker 01

  Good.

• 2:46:26Joe Rogan?

  And, look, and Rick Perry, God bless him, because if it wasn't for him getting behind it, that changed everybody's opinion. Here you have this Republican, former governor of Texas, who's talking about it, and then talking about his own personal experiences doing it. You know, so, him and Brian Hubbard, I mean, they really went all out, and when I had them on my podcast, not once but twice, to talk about this, and the state of it, where it's being passed in Texas, they got $100 million from Ken Paxton, so, which is, yeah, no, was it Ken Paxton? No. No, who is it?

• 2:46:59Joe Rogan?

  Dan Patrick, sorry, Dan Patrick. So Dan Patrick, who approved this hundred million dollars for this I begane initiative, like, these people all deserve praise. This is like, there's a lot of people that for the longest time, they thought of psychedelics as being something that losers do. And then they realize like, no, there's a lot of people that need help. And this could help everybody.

• 2:47:18Speaker 01

  There can be a good side with the whole country.

• 2:47:19Speaker 03

  I was just, I was just in San Diego last Monday, and then I was in LA on Tuesday. And it's unrecognizable.

• 2:47:26Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy, man.

• 2:47:26Speaker 03

  It's sad. Like, and I, and when you take a look at San Diego, it's always been beautiful, beaches in the background, and, but it was worse than LA. I was in the Burbank area, and actually, it was a lot nicer than San Diego was. And the Gaslight District was just disgusting.

• 2:47:39Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 2:47:40Speaker 03

  What is it? Uh, Gaslamp?

• 2:47:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, Gaslamp.

• 2:47:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. It just, I couldn't believe it. I walked into a couple of restaurants, you got homeless people stumbling in, trying to order, not, trying to take food off of people's plates while they're there. I'm just like, what is going on?

• 2:47:53Joe Rogan?

  No law enforcement. That's what's going on.

• 2:47:55Speaker 03

  It's the first time that I went back, and I've been back, you know, in the last three years, I've been back two or three times a year, easily. It's the first time I went back, I was like, man, this is not, this is not what it used to be. This is not, it was, it just felt, I felt like, I felt like for the first time, I didn't feel safe there.

• 2:48:11Joe Rogan?

  God.

• 2:48:12Speaker 03

  And it's weird to me.

• 2:48:13Joe Rogan?

  And how do you get that, how do you bring it back?

• 2:48:15Speaker 01

  Oh, it's simple. You bring it back by doing the right things, common sense things, taking, you know, dude, I, okay, hold on.

• 2:48:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I understand this, but I mean, who do you get to do it? Do you think Chad Bianco does it? Do you think Steve Hilton does it? Like, who, who do you get to turn the state around?

• 2:48:31Speaker 01

  You know, it's

• 2:48:31Speaker 03

  Your girl, your girl Katie Porter, she get it done?

• 2:48:34Speaker 01

  Oh, Jesus Christ.

• 2:48:35Joe Rogan?

  She'll scold everybody into compliance.

• 2:48:37Speaker 01

  But I'm, I'm sitting, I'm sitting outside, I'm sitting outside having dinner last night, and, and I'm watching a bunch of homeless guys talking to themselves, and you think, and, and this is the problem. I was a police officer for 23 years, okay? I, I've been out there with them, and you have people that, you know, they have serious problems. You know, and, and I, I understand, you know, the ACLU and stuff, they, they, oh, it's not right to put them, no, it's better for them. And it's better for the, the people that are out on the street, just trying to live their lives. To have that person be put into a place where they can receive some medication, receive some help, and try to get them back than it is to let these people just rot on the street and self-destruct.

• 2:49:21Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent.

• 2:49:22Speaker 01

  And I'm watching and it's like, how is that so hard to figure out that it's better to do something with them than it is to just let them be? It's crazy.

• 2:49:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, we've lost our way, you know, as a society, and I think a great reflection of that is how many homeless people you have camped out on your streets.

• 2:49:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:49:39Joe Rogan?

  Those are the places where they've lost their way the most.

• 2:49:41Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 2:49:41Joe Rogan?

  And this is unfortunately, a lot of these Democrats run cities.

• 2:49:45Speaker 03

  I owned a couple of gyms in San Jose and just, it was tent city. And along the highway, like leading up to my, along the road that led up to my gym, all those things, but you would see they would, they were stealing solar panels from people's houses and they would put them up on the side wall so they could charge their cellphones. Like, they're smart enough to do these things, right? It's not as if like they're not.

• 2:50:04Joe Rogan?

  They're just drug addicts.

• 2:50:05Speaker 03

  They're, yeah.

• 2:50:06Joe Rogan?

  It's a lot of it.

• 2:50:06Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 2:50:07Joe Rogan?

  A lot of it is just drug addicts.

• 2:50:08Speaker 03

  But in areas like San Jose.

• 2:50:10Speaker 01

  That can help with that.

• 2:50:10Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 2:50:11Speaker 03

  But things like in, in San Jose or San Francisco, they're giving them needles, they're giving them drugs.

• 2:50:15Speaker 01

  They're giving them phones.

• 2:50:17Speaker 03

  It's like, why are we, why are we doing this?

• 2:50:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, the other problem is the amount of money that's involved in the homeless industry now.

• 2:50:22Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 2:50:23Joe Rogan?

  When you find out that California spent 24 billion and homelessness only got worse.

• 2:50:27Speaker 01

  And what have they done?

• 2:50:28Joe Rogan?

  Nothing, not only that, but the fucking, they tried to do a, an audit on it and the governor vetoed it. It's like, no, nothing to see here.

• 2:50:36Speaker 03

  Why waste time on that?

• 2:50:38Joe Rogan?

  It's only 24 billion, guys.

• 2:50:40Speaker 03

  Well, how much did they spend on that bridge that had the?

• 2:50:43Joe Rogan?

  For the mountain lions?

• 2:50:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, for the.

• 2:50:44Speaker 01

  Oh my god, yeah.

• 2:50:45Speaker 03

  What are we doing?

• 2:50:47Speaker 01

  Hey, hey, hey, that's okay, the mountain lions need a fucking bridge.

• 2:50:50Joe Rogan?

  They need hugs.

• 2:50:51Speaker 03

  They need hugs.

• 2:50:52Joe Rogan?

  It's, uh, they need, uh, they need to wake up. The, and the problem is that they're in this bizarre mindset, this, uh, liberal leftist mindset that's just not tenable. It's not, you can't defend it, it's not.

• 2:51:05Speaker 01

  That's because it's crazy.

• 2:51:07Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't work.

• 2:51:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I always look at this, people talk about left and right, and most people are, I'm, I'm in the center. I think, you know, it's.

• 2:51:15Speaker 03

  I think a lot of people are.

• 2:51:16Speaker 01

  It's, it's not, it's not where.

• 2:51:18Joe Rogan?

  But you get labeled as being on the right if you're not all the way to the left.

• 2:51:21Speaker 01

  If you're not all crazy, you're to the far right.

• 2:51:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's nuts.

• 2:51:26Speaker 01

  It's absolutely just.

• 2:51:27Joe Rogan?

  A nutty seesaw.

• 2:51:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, I just saw something that, I can't remember who it was, but they continue to talk about, you know, let's keep taxing the billionaires, keep taxing the billionaires.

• 2:51:36Joe Rogan?

  And do what with the money?

• 2:51:38Speaker 03

  And that's the point, though.

• 2:51:39Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing.

• 2:51:39Speaker 03

  So why don't we just not?

• 2:51:40Speaker 01

  They're gonna go away.

• 2:51:41Speaker 03

  Why don't we just not tax the people that make under 200,000?

• 2:51:45Joe Rogan?

  That's actually something Jeff Bezos, uh, brought up. He said you should, the, the bottom 50%, the people that make the,

• 2:51:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:51:52Joe Rogan?

  the, the, the least amount of money, don't tax them at all.

• 2:51:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:51:54Joe Rogan?

  He goes, because they're not contributing that much to the tax base anyway, and they would contribute more to the economy if they had more money to spend.

• 2:51:59Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 2:51:59Joe Rogan?

  It would help everybody.

• 2:52:00Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 2:52:01Joe Rogan?

  I think he's right.

• 2:52:02Speaker 01

  I always said 150,000 down.

• 2:52:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:04Speaker 01

  You don't pay taxes.

• 2:52:05Joe Rogan?

  That's a great number.

• 2:52:06Speaker 03

  I also thought about it too, is if you were to take, if you got rid of the, um, you know, because they're talking about this housing shortage and all of the other things, why don't we get rid of the low interest rates? You know, because I have like a couple of interest rates on some houses that I have that are at 2%. How do you get rid of those? Well, why don't you just raise my capital gains tax, so I don't gotta, my wife and I, or whatever, we can pay like less on that. Versus that 500,000 threshold, why don't you make it a million? So then I'll cash out on those and just take my money out. And then I'll start putting it back into the economy again, like, there's all this.

• 2:52:37Joe Rogan?

  You're talking like a sensible businessman. Like, you can't be doing that in California. They'll put you in jail.

• 2:52:42Speaker 01

  You could do.

• 2:52:43Joe Rogan?

  They'll put you in Twitter jail.

• 2:52:44Speaker 01

  You could do the death tax that they did in New York. I mean, look at what Mom Donnie's trying to do.

• 2:52:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's nuts.

• 2:52:48Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 2:52:49Joe Rogan?

  People are just gonna bail out of that city.

• 2:52:50Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 2:52:51Joe Rogan?

  It's these fucking people that think like taxing the rich is the solution. And do what with the money? If you were doing a great job with the money and everything was accounted for and there was no fraud and waste, I'd be like, well, maybe you just need more money. But that's clearly not the case.

• 2:53:05Speaker 01

  That's not it.

• 2:53:05Joe Rogan?

  You've got so much fraud and you're ignoring it.

• 2:53:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:53:08Joe Rogan?

  And then this Nick Shirley kid.

• 2:53:10Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 2:53:10Joe Rogan?

  When he exposes it, everybody's like.

• 2:53:12Speaker 01

  They go after him.

• 2:53:13Joe Rogan?

  Yes!

• 2:53:13Speaker 01

  They go after him.

• 2:53:14Joe Rogan?

  You should be praising him.

• 2:53:16Speaker 01

  Give that kid an award.

• 2:53:17Joe Rogan?

  Give him a fucking award.

• 2:53:18Speaker 01

  Here, I want Journalist of the Year, and he's not a journalist.

• 2:53:20Speaker 03

  How mu- how much fraud do you think is in this country?

• 2:53:23Joe Rogan?

  Billions and billions and billions.

• 2:53:25Speaker 03

  I mean, Elon had said, Elon had said when he first came in, he goes, hey, I, I think it's close to a trillion dollars, maybe a little bit over.

• 2:53:30Joe Rogan?

  He said it was so bad that he didn't want to talk about it too much, because he's worried they'd kill him. You know.

• 2:53:36Speaker 03

  He really said that.

• 2:53:37Joe Rogan?

  Don't.

• 2:53:37Speaker 01

  I don't doubt it. It's wild.

• 2:53:39Speaker 03

  Joe.

• 2:53:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's not lying.

• 2:53:42Speaker 03

  He ain't stupid.

• 2:53:43Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:53:43Speaker 01

  He's not.

• 2:53:43Joe Rogan?

  No, he's not.

• 2:53:44Speaker 01

  He's anything but.

• 2:53:45Joe Rogan?

  No, he's not stupid.

• 2:53:46Speaker 01

  He's anything but. But I mean, to think though, and think how much in California they've discovered, or let's just say what? Two hundred billion?

• 2:53:53Joe Rogan?

  At least.

• 2:53:53Speaker 01

  You know, somewhere around there. That's on the low end. New York's probably, and Chicago is, and then, I mean, but they've got to do it in all states. You can't just do it in the ones where it's LA and, and Chicago and New York. We've got to do it in all states.

• 2:54:04Joe Rogan?

  It's gotta be in Texas, too.

• 2:54:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's everywhere.

• 2:54:06Joe Rogan?

  It's everywhere. There's fraud, and these people are profiting off of the fraud. They were funneling it right back into the parties, and it's, it's dirty business.

• 2:54:14Speaker 03

  Well, you didn't really think that that shovel the government pays for was really fucking nine hundred dollars?

• 2:54:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a lot of that, is they get a budget and they have to pay, they have to spend all the money.

• 2:54:25Speaker 01

  They have to spend every bit of it.

• 2:54:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, otherwise they won't get the same budget next year.

• 2:54:28Speaker 03

  Which is wild to me, because the schools, the schools operate the same way. If the teachers don't spend a certain amount of money on these things, then they don't get the same budget for next year. No, why don't we reward the people that actually save the money?

• 2:54:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:39Speaker 03

  It doesn't make any sense to me.

• 2:54:40Speaker 01

  That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What is wrong with you?

• 2:54:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, gentlemen.

• 2:54:44Speaker 01

  I want to know, when, when do you come into my class, though?

• 2:54:46Joe Rogan?

  Your, your refereeing class?

• 2:54:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:54:48Joe Rogan?

  When is it? When do you have it?

• 2:54:50Speaker 01

  July seventeenth to the nineteenth. He's gone.

• 2:54:53Joe Rogan?

  What is, oh, I'm not even gonna be in the country.

• 2:54:55Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 2:54:56Joe Rogan?

  Um, but when are you doing one? Where are you doing them?

• 2:55:01Speaker 01

  Usually I do them in Vegas at like Extreme Couture or something like that, because I need the gym to, to put people in cages with fighters.

• 2:55:06Joe Rogan?

  If I can, I definitely will. I would love to see it. I would love to see it and be able to talk about it.

• 2:55:11Speaker 01

  Cause that way I don't have, that way, you, look, at any time, you know, you have my number. Text me if you have a question during, during the fights. It's, it's the text.

• 2:55:19Joe Rogan?

  It's like when you say the waiter.

• 2:55:20Speaker 01

  I get, I get, I get them all the time, so it's not.

• 2:55:24Speaker 03

  Just wrap it up, right?

• 2:55:25Speaker 01

  I get, I get them all the time, so, you know, it, it's nice when you know exactly what the referee can do, what, where they're gonna go, and when you're looking at them like with, you know, a Mark Goddard or a Herb Dean. What, when you know, if you go to the, you'll know exactly, hey, this is what he can do, and this is, this is why he'll do it.

• 2:55:44Joe Rogan?

  I'll definitely ask you. I promise. At the very least, I'll ask you next time an issue comes up.

• 2:55:48Speaker 01

  No problem.

• 2:55:49Joe Rogan?

  I'll have you on speed dial.

• 2:55:49Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 2:55:50Joe Rogan?

  Maybe I'll put you on speakerphone at the UFC. Hey, everybody, Big John's right here. Don't do that.

• 2:55:56Speaker 01

  It's the one thing that I'm always watching and it's like, you know, and you guys are like, "I don't know, I don't know." I'm like, "This is the answer."

• 2:56:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'll reach out. I promise.

• 2:56:05Speaker 01

  Love you.

• 2:56:05Joe Rogan?

  Thank you, brother. Love you too.

• 2:56:06Speaker 01

  Thank you very much, brother.

• 2:56:07Joe Rogan?

  This is fun. Let's do it again.

• 2:56:09Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely.

• 2:56:09Joe Rogan?

  There's always gonna be fights to talk about, frickin', eh?

• 2:56:12Speaker 03

  I live up the street, so let me know anytime.

• 2:56:14Joe Rogan?

  All right. Fuck yeah. All right.

• 2:56:15Speaker 01

  Bye, dude.

• 2:56:16Joe Rogan?

  Bye, everybody.

• 2:56:25Speaker 04

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