“Car Values Are Plummeting!” Doug Demuro Exposes MASSIVE Price Cuts, Deals, & Ripoffs in 2025

Oracle: Cut your cloud bill in half—switch to OCI today https://oracle.com/iced Ramp: Now get $250 when you join Ramp at https://ramp.com/ich Range Rover Sport: Start designing your Range Rover Sport today at https://www. LandRoverUSA.com Subscribe to @DougDeMuro Here! Add us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jlsselby https://www.instagram.com/gpstephan Official Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeBQ24VfikOriqSdKtomh0w For sponsorships or business inquiries reach out to: [email protected] For Podcast Inquiries, please DM @icedcoffeehour on Instagram! Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:03:46 - Car market changes over last 3 years? 00:05:53 - Future car market predictions 00:12:34 - Sponsor - Oracle 00:13:43 - What happens when EV incentives end? 00:15:57 - On government EV incentives 00:20:22 - Dougs car collection 00:25:14 - Cars currently in demand 00:28:58 - Cars that have lost their appeal 00:33:21 - Sponsor - Ramp 00:34:26 - Best car for the average person 00:35:48 - Low-maintenance cars 00:37:18 - Why no EV convertibles? 00:40:48 - Best time to buy a luxury car 00:43:47 - Why no manuals anymore? 00:46:34 - Must-have car features 00:53:18 - Best tech in cars 00:57:24 - Why self-driving tech is problematic 00:58:44 - How to make money with cars 01:01:25 - Sponsor - Range Rover 01:02:25 - Cars as investments 01:05:19 - Best investment vehicles 01:19:02 - Financing insights from Cars and Bids 01:29:26 - Doug’s overhead costs 01:33:19 - Car owner stereotypes 01:36:26 - Experience as CEO of Cars & Bids 01:40:08 - How C&B has changed since partnership 01:45:17 - Does Cars & Bids reject listings? 01:50:55 - Running a business with kids 01:52:11 - Balancing business and family 02:01:02 - Biggest insecurity 02:08:09 - Doug’s favorite books 02:09:13 - Doug’s interests outside of cars 02:11:05 - Favorite travel destinations *Some of the links and other products that appear on this video are from companies which Graham Stephan will earn an affiliate commission or referral bonus. Graham Stephan is part of an affiliate network and receives compensation for sending traffic to partner sites. The content in this video is accurate as of the posting date. Some of the offers mentioned may no longer be available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  I often think about this. If I was just somebody who didn't care about cars, what a great burden that would be lifted off of me.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  This, this, this, this, this.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  I drive around and I'm like, I see Priuses and I'm like, I wish I could just have that.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Handling is just next level precise.

• 0:47Graham Stephan?

  Your website is the website I check every single day.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  It's always cool stuff. This F430 Spyder is currently for sale and it's being auctioned live on Cars and Bids.

• 0:58Jack Selby?

  Do you have any predictions then for the future of the car market?

• 1:01Speaker 01

  A lot of car enthusiasts are angry now. Like, I can't make money on my cars. It's like, well, that's the normal state of the market for 60 years.

• 1:09Graham Stephan?

  So for people who want to make money on cars, what are you seeing these days for investment-grade vehicles?

• 1:14Speaker 01

  End of '21 was the absolute peak of the craziness.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  They are very rich and you are very poor.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  I think the only way right now to truly make money on a lot of these cars is.

• 1:31Jack Selby?

  Doug Demuro, thank you so much for coming on the Iced Coffee Hour podcast.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35Jack Selby?

  This is incredible. You said this was all designed and owned by an architect before you?

• 1:40Speaker 01

  This space, there was an architect who built it out for his own personal car collection and then he like outgrew it, sort of, like it needed a different space that had windows, understandably. And so then he moved into that space and he leases this space to us and we. It's it's been our headquarters. It's been good.

• 1:58Graham Stephan?

  It's gorgeous. I mean, I want something like this in Vegas.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's cool. I mean, there's drawbacks.

• 2:02Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  So like when I'm shooting, like when you're shooting stuff, there's no rooms, right? So like if someone has a meeting, they the cars are being used every day, every single day. The cars are used as like off, like, like meeting rooms, because that's the only place that you can have a Zoom call and not interrupt filming that's going on. And so that's kind of an issue. And then also the fact that you can't see the sun during the day is a problem.

• 2:27Graham Stephan?

  It's good. It's like a casino. It like keeps you going throughout the day.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  The guy who rented it from had his had a lift over here and he had his mechanic work on his cars. And he was like, we loved it because we didn't put up, we didn't put up a clock and he couldn't see the time. He would just keep working, working, working away. He realized it's nine o'clock. So I would prefer though, just to get some light, you know? Light's nice.

• 2:47Graham Stephan?

  You could put in the fake windows. Have you seen those are the LCD screens or whatever?

• 2:51Speaker 01

  Fake windows.

• 2:53Graham Stephan?

  Okay, cool.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  We'll limit the gram.

• 2:54Graham Stephan?

  A lot has changed since our last podcast a few years ago.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:57Graham Stephan?

  With Cars and Bids doing incredibly well. That's where we're here now.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Did I had I launched Cars and Bids when we?

• 3:03Graham Stephan?

  Barely.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Barely.

• 3:04Graham Stephan?

  It had it had just started.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  So like probably fall of 20, we'd come in last time or summer.

• 3:08Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. And then in the process too, you've you've accumulated some really incredible cars.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Cars.

• 3:13Graham Stephan?

  Countach behind you, the Carrera GT that's in service.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  I know. I'm sorry. It's not here. They promised to be back two weeks ago.

• 3:20Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. And a huge infusion of capital into Cars and Bids.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:25Graham Stephan?

  By an investor. That's incredible.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:27Graham Stephan?

  So congratulations.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Thank you. It's gone great. Cars and Bids is killing it. We are running or auctioning like between 30 and 40 cars every single day. I mean, in the winter, it starts to slow down a little bit, but um, and we're into that now, December.

• 3:39Graham Stephan?

  It's funny, your website is the website I check every single day. Every day is.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  There's always cool stuff.

• 3:45Jack Selby?

  Graham sends me a listing way too often, way too often.

• 3:49Graham Stephan?

  Sometimes I'm seeing prices that I'm just like, this makes sense to buy if I needed a car.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, stuff's getting cheap again. There was a period, especially during when we launched, because we launched in 20 when the car market was in this sort of turmoil where stuff got expensive. And that would held to be held true in 21 and 22. Stuff's gotten down now to a point where it's like, as an enthusiast, as the owner of a car market, auction website, I'm like, darn it. But as an enthusiast, I'm like, yeah, let's get some cheap cars up in here.

• 4:15Graham Stephan?

  So how has the market changed over the last three years for cars?

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Uh, pretty significantly. You know, three years ago, which I guess would have been end of 21. I mean, that was the peak. End of 21 was the absolute peak of the craziness, which is when all those COVID shutdowns had really stopped production of new cars or heavily diminished production of new cars. And so used cars had gotten incredibly valuable and at the same time, money was cheap. And so used cars were becoming more valuable. New cars were not available. People were getting incredibly low interest loans. It was, I mean, it was, it was thunderdome. Like, we couldn't put, we couldn't put reserves on cars high enough to sell like every, people come in, ask for crazy reserves. We'd give it a shot. It would sell every single time. It was just crazy.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Things are different now. The, the supply and demand in the market has certainly caught up for most automakers, I would say. Some automakers are still, are still in a undersupplied situation that's carried over from COVID and they've never dug out of it. But a lot of the automakers have caught back up. So new cars are, are cheaper now. Capital is more expensive, right? Getting loans is harder, more expensive to finance cars. And so that has made new cars cheaper, which in turn has pushed used car prices back down. And the market is considerably different now. And we still have people clinging to values two years ago when they're submitting their cars. And it's like, oh, there was a time, but it ain't now.

• 5:33Graham Stephan?

  How do you ease people into that? When they think their cars were 50 grand and you say, well, it's really worth 30?

• 5:38Speaker 01

  We try to sell them, send them as many comps as we can on our site, on other sites, bring a trailer, but also just advertisement. Cars, cars that are being listed. And it's like, hey dude, you want 50, but this car is similar to yours and they're asking 40. Like you're not going to get, you know, and sometimes people don't buy it and think that we're.

• 5:57Speaker 00

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• 6:23Speaker 01

  We're trying to sell, you know, put them in a low reserve to make our money and cheat them out. And honestly, those, a lot of those people go away pissed at us and then come back four months later and they are like, yeah, well, I couldn't sell it on Facebook Marketplace. I think we can try again. And a lot of times it's like, well, yeah, but now the number's still a little lower. I mean, that's the situation. These people are often chasing the market down. And a lot of those people have negative equity from that period in 2122, when they were all gung ho about buying a car. And now the market is different.

• 6:51Jack Selby?

  Do you have any predictions then for the future of the car market?

• 6:54Speaker 01

  I mean, I think it goes back to the way it was. You know, it's interesting, everybody, a lot of car enthusiasts are angry now. Like, I can't make money on my cars. It's like, well, that's, that's the normal state of the market for, for 60 years, right? You, you bought a car, a new car especially, you couldn't flip it and suddenly make 10 grand. Like, that was an unusual time. And I think that a lot of car enthusiasts are upset about that. But like, cars depreciate. And my, my general prediction is that most cars will no longer be able to be flat or even an increase. They will depreciate like they used to. And we're already seeing a ton of cars now starting to come down from those. Some cars were high, COVID happened, they were flat for two, three years, and now they're starting to drop again. And it's like, this is, this is normal. This is how a market works with goods that are

• 7:37Speaker 01

  newer versions of those goods are produced. That's just how it should be.

• 7:40Graham Stephan?

  So what do people do if they have that negative equity? Because the issue that I see is that values were so inflated that this isn't just normal negative equity. This is, I got a loan at $100,000 for a car that was worth 70.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:52Graham Stephan?

  And now it's worth 35.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. And especially, this is true on electric cars, right? Those cars have depreciated so quickly. And they were some of the cars that were the hottest during that period. When you think back, the Rivians, I mean, we were selling, when Rivians first showed up, we were selling Rivians for $135,000. You can now get a pickup Rivian for under 50, in the 40s. And that's a pretty substantial decline in what ultimately amounted to be three years, right? Um, I mean, yeah, what do you do if you have negative equity? You got, your only options are your only options, right? You keep paying the loan and just kind of wait it out, which a lot of people don't want to do. Or you have to try to roll that into the next car, and that's not a great situation either. Or, I mean, It's a it's a tough call and a lot of people are in that boat and they just have to kind of

• 8:37Speaker 01

  keep going on. If if you if you find yourself in situations like that, that you can't just always get another new car, you know, it's not doesn't always really work like that. Some automakers who are a little more creative on financing might be able to get you in there on a new car.

• 8:51Graham Stephan?

  But it's generally not a good idea to follow up on those things.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, if what if you if you already have negative equity and trying to yeah, I mean, because you're gonna end up with negative equity on the new car, too. You at the end of the day, you just gotta probably I what the smart financial thing to do would be to just kind of wait that out, or if you can, depending on your rate, you know, pay off, pay off some portion of it or sell the car, pay off the balance and get something cheaper that's more affordable for you. Those are probably the smart things.

• 9:18Graham Stephan?

  Now, we were hearing a lot about a repo crisis of people just walking away from the car loans. Has that happened? I feel like it hasn't.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  People have were talking about that as being a thing, and I've heard that car loan delinquencies are on the rise. But I don't know, it's certainly in our corner of the market where we're doing mostly enthusiast cars, a lot of cash buyers, the enthusiasts a lot of times stretched like crazy, but not like the kind of people who are buying Bentleys or Maseratis, right? Like those, those people are really, they want the flashy show off car. That's not like the 911 buyer, the BMW M3 buyer usually. And so we haven't seen like that level of just like, I can't, I can't afford them and get out of them and walk away. I don't I don't hear a lot of those stories in our corner of the world. Maybe it's happening in like the big truck segment where people get into $1,800 payments and they're like, damn.

• 10:01Graham Stephan?

  But usually with the truck, they use it for work.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:03Graham Stephan?

  So it's one of those things where it's actually making the money, even if it's costing, hopefully.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  A lot of those people are just more a cool truck, you know?

• 10:09Graham Stephan?

  That's true. Why are EV prices crashing so much, though? Why is that market paying it so far?

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Man, if you want a good used car, cheap, and you can deal with the electric thing, those things are.

• 10:20Graham Stephan?

  I've been looking at Teslas lately, the prices that they're selling for.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Wild.

• 10:24Graham Stephan?

  You sold a Tesla Model Y that was like almost brand new with the XPEL, you know, paint protection. I think it was like 33 grand.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  We're selling Plads in the 50s.

• 10:34Graham Stephan?

  Yes.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  That's 1,000 horsepower.

• 10:35Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  We're selling Lucid Airs for half off. A car's a year old. Like, it is wild what is happening. Into the EV market. It's almost too good to not to it's some price, no matter what you think of EVs politically or personally. It's some price you start to be like, hmm, that's interesting.

• 10:53Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, the plaid at 50 seems like such a good deal for a 2022 plaid.

• 10:57Jack Selby?

  I did not know that was happening. That breaks at my heart and they're not.

• 11:02Graham Stephan?

  You know what? Jack has a history of buying at peaks.

• 11:04Jack Selby?

  I have a history of buying at peaks. It's like that ongoing joke of the channel. I decided finally, after years of waiting, because I, you know, delayed gratification. No, no, I'll buy it when I'm more financially comfortable, when I have a cushion. I finally shelled out the money to buy a Tesla Model Y and I spent for, I think it was completely the base. I used existing inventory though, to even get it cheaper. And the only thing that I changed was I had white interior. And I got the long range on the Tesla Model Y.

• 11:31Graham Stephan?

  And you didn't use my referral code.

• 11:33Jack Selby?

  I use my dad's. So, yeah.

• 11:35Graham Stephan?

  You want to get upset at that. I paid 58 grand for it.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  Plus tax.

• 11:40Jack Selby?

  When was this?

• 11:40Jack Selby?

  No, no, it was 58 all, all in, all in. This was September of not last year, but the prior year.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  It's 22.

• 11:48Jack Selby?

  Or maybe it was September of last year. It was September of last year, I think. Yeah.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  I mean, it's not, to be clear, that's still a great car. You just keep driving it.

• 11:57Jack Selby?

  I love the car. It's worth 50, you know, 58, whatever I paid for it, but it's, you know, depressing knowing that I could have gotten a plaid or something like that.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  It is crazy how those cars have lost value. And to be honest, the Teslas, although they have lost significant value, there's some other ones out there that are even wild. I mean, I look at the Lucid numbers. I look at Hummer EVs, those giant things.

• 12:14Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, I remember when those were selling over.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  We sold one for 300 or close. And those are $100,000 trucks. Now, if you're lucky, you might be able to get it under like the 85, 95, depending on mileage, stuff like that. That's a big hit, you know, the, the, the heavy hitter guys who wanted the first one to pay 300, those guys lost 200 grand in value in 24 months, probably. I mean, that's really a lot.

• 12:36Graham Stephan?

  Why are they crashing more than any other car? Why?

• 12:39Speaker 01

  I think at the end of the day, the the demand for EVs is heavily subsidized by the government incentives and the demand is just not as strong as the government wishes that it was. And the automakers are heavily subsidized to make EVs because they also get significant incentives and they can pass those incentives on to the consumer. I mean, they can apply the the consumer incentives to the lease payments and get the leases lower. And so there's real benefit for them. But at the end of the day, the secondary, there's not, the primary market is propped up artificially by these incentives. The secondary market doesn't have incentives. And so that's where you see the actual value of these cars. And it is, yikes. But if you're interested in a used one, it's, it really legitimately does start to become kind of appealing.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  A Rivian at 40 some is like, that's, that's kind of, I mean, those are cool. Those are cool trucks. The first original ones at 850 horsepower. They're off-road like crazy. They're nice inside.

• 13:32Jack Selby?

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• 13:53Graham Stephan?

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• 14:26Jack Selby?

  See if your company qualifies for this very special offer at oracle.com/iced. Once again, that is oracle.com/iced with the link down below in the description. Thank you so much to Oracle for sponsoring this episode and back to the podcast.

• 14:38Graham Stephan?

  So what's going to happen with the government subsidies end on new EVs? Or do you think it's going to end? Because my thought, Tesla can't sell these cars in the 40s or 50s or even 60s anymore if there's no government incentive.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  I also, it's not to get political, it's tough for the automakers to do this slingshoting thing between Trump, Biden, Trump.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  They're making long range product decisions, right? I mean, the product decisions they're making are five, 10 years out based on existing incentives. They don't know. And now if the incentives go away, I mean, they've spent, we're talking about probably billions of dollars developing cars for incentives that may not exist. And that's a tough situation. I feel bad for them. Almost everybody is in this boat. I keep hearing this from every automaker contact I have. I was at Porsche the other day dropping off my Corgi T for service and I was asking about Macan EV because there's an electric Macan now. And they were like, we got inbound that aren't sold. And that's a brand new, I mean, that car, I've seen three on the road. That's a brand new Porsche that already that this is in California where inbound ones aren't sold. Can you imagine in Texas and other places where EVs aren't as hot?

• 15:43Speaker 01

  And then you take away incentives and it's like, the whole structure, the automakers are just going to have to do a huge pivot and who knows? In four years, things might completely change and then they have to figure out how to pivot back. And it's like, this has just gotten out of control. And I was very disappointed that the Biden administration changed the incentives drastically, even from what they were before. So you had an incentive, then you had less incentives, then you had changed incentives. And it was like, very difficult for the automakers to really keep up with.

• 16:08Graham Stephan?

  What were some of those incentives? My understanding was that it was the 7,500 tax credit, then they got rid of it and then they brought it back. And then something about depreciation?

• 16:17Speaker 01

  What ended up happening, when Biden's administration brought back the significant incentive, they had all these means tests. The car had to be built in the United States. You couldn't earn more than a certain amount of money.

• 16:27Graham Stephan?

  Yes.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Like it was income tied. And some of that stuff made sense, but the problem was you had to jump through all these hoops to get the incentive. In the past, they were like, we just want to get EVs out the door. So we're just going to give everybody 7,500 bucks. Well, when you start putting seven different things on and it's like, well, that actually now it's, now it's like a maze for the consumer to try to figure out which cars qualify. And also it just lowers the likelihood of this accomplishing the stated goal of getting EVs out the door.

• 16:54Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. So if you had a magic wand and you could do whatever you want to when it comes to EVs in terms of incentives or no incentives or really anything to spur up the auto market, what would you do?

• 17:04Speaker 01

  This is not a popular opinion in the world, but I would let. Capitalism sorted out. I hate to say it. I think ultimately.

• 17:14Graham Stephan?

  It's probably the right answer though.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  I, I think the problem is though, that like, we do have an environmental issue that capitalism probably wouldn't sort out until like the very end when the polar ice caps have melted and then we're all screwed. It's like, oh, maybe it's fine electric car. But like, the current situation didn't work all that well. And it's certainly not working doing the slingshotting between the, I would probably let capitalism sort it out more than they are now. I will say EVs are pretty cheap to produce. We had Chinese cars in the, in the, in the studio the other day. And they have some pretty compelling EVs. And I think the, the populace would actually be compelled into an EV. If they were a little better educated about them. I think a lot of people in the middle of the country who hate EVs, if they knew better, I think actually they wouldn't hate them. I think there's some real benefits. They're more reliable. They're cheaper to own.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  But also they're, I think they can be made cheaply in a way, you're not, you're not, you're not developing an engine, right? A gasoline combustion engine. And so these Chinese companies, we had a car in the, in the studio the other day, the called Xiaomi was the company. And they had, three years ago, they were building cell phones only. And then they had a car that was tremendously competent three years later. And that, that wouldn't have happened 20 years ago when you were, you had to develop an engine and get it certified by all these, these governing bodies, et cetera. And so that maybe, maybe will help bring the prices down. And, and in that situation, maybe more people would buy them. But for now, I don't know, I, China's adopting EVs without significant credits. The, the market there really wants these cars.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  And I think that would happen to our market too, if they were priced right and, and if people.

• 18:49Graham Stephan?

  That's interesting. If there were no tariffs to bring in a Chinese car to the United States, they would be so cheap.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  They'd be cheap.

• 18:56Graham Stephan?

  Like 20 grand for a new car.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Or, or 40 grand for a car that performs like a plaid, but, but, you know, is a model three, yeah, model three price rival. They sell them in Mexico. They sell them in Latin America. They sell them in Europe.

• 19:09Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 19:09Speaker 01

  Chinese cars, Chinese electric cars. Yeah.

• 19:11Jack Selby?

  So Elon says, and obviously this may be a little bit biased coming from Elon Musk, but he says that it makes sense in the future for all cars to be electric from an engineering perspective.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:23Jack Selby?

  Do you ever see a future without gas cars?

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's inevitable.

• 19:28Jack Selby?

  You think it's inevitable?

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Fossil fuels will eventually, I mean, yeah. And I agree with him generally. EVs have some real benefits. One big drawback, though, is, you know, you gotta charge them.

• 19:36Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  You gotta like, plug them in and all that.

• 19:38Jack Selby?

  Get some strong solar panels to put on the roof. I always thought that would be pretty crazy.

• 19:41Graham Stephan?

  I think eventually it could be built into the roads where it's just.

• 19:45Jack Selby?

  Oh, that would.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Well, there are cars, there are cars that have inductive chargers. It's just a, there's an enormous loss.

• 19:50Jack Selby?

  Leaving up to the government to do something like that.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  And can you imagine the infrastructure investment?

• 19:53Jack Selby?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  And is electric, if you're gonna make that level of investment, is electric really what you want to invest in? Should we be talking about hydrogen? Should we be talking about, I don't know. But from an engineering standpoint, I agree, and it really is, they're more reliable. All these, you know, there's a cottage industry now of people converting classic cars into EVs because you lose the engine noise, but you gain reliability, you gain power. It's generally easier to figure out there's these EV battery situations.

• 20:21Jack Selby?

  The amount of components just in a standard EV versus like a, you know.

• 20:25Graham Stephan?

  What I think realistically could happen is nuclear power in a car. And imagine you have like a little, like a battery type thing that you put in a car. Seriously, but, but it'll run forever and it'll power, like you have a little battery that powers your whole house with like a little reactor.

• 20:40Jack Selby?

  And every car, I'm just saying.

• 20:42Speaker 01

  Fifty years look back on us or a hundred years as like barbaric. Like we, like we see pictures of old New York City where they had horses.

• 20:47Graham Stephan?

  Right.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  And we're like, that's insane. There was a combustion in the chamber, like there was explosions and then exhaust came out, like that's, that's so stupid.

• 20:59Graham Stephan?

  You had to charge it and plug it in and wait overnight to drive your car?

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Overnight, that's gonna be one of the things, people are like, what? Couldn't just do it?

• 21:07Graham Stephan?

  It just doesn't take a minute.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  But it is a weird time right now, right? We're in this weird transition. When I was a kid, it was settled law. You had an engine, automakers made better engines than each other. Now, we'll see.

• 21:20Speaker 00

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• 22:47Jack Selby?

  On a personal level, at this point, how many cars do you have?

• 22:51Speaker 01

  I have six automobiles at the moment.

• 22:54Jack Selby?

  Any electric automobiles?

• 22:56Speaker 01

  No, however, literally yesterday, I just finished installing the second EV charger at my home. And so I'm ready. You're like, why do you need two? I need two, okay?

• 23:08Speaker 01

  I have decided, I mean, I see the future. Like, I see the writing on the wall. And so I think that that's coming. One of my problems is that I drive cross-country every summer and then back. And doing that trip in an EV adds, like, I've calculated it as a full day.

• 23:23Jack Selby?

  Yes.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  Which is, and then a day back. And that's a lot of annoyance, to be honest. People are like, you just drive for a few hours, then plug it in. I do 18 hour days on the road. Like, I don't have a problem with that. I'll do 1400 miles in a day. And EV just doesn't, you can't do it. It's just not possible. So, one of my cars will probably be gas as long as I can. But I think it's, I think I'm ready to make the switch.

• 23:42Jack Selby?

  It's a little weird question, but when you're doing 1400 miles in a day, do you have any like tricks to being able to stay like awake and open on the road? Because I even make the drive between like LA and Vegas and that's like four and a half hours. Sometimes like a little bit tired.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  That drive especially sucks.

• 23:55Jack Selby?

  It's very, very, very boring. But if you're doing that many, you know, that distance in a day, do you have any like tricks or something?

• 24:00Speaker 01

  Um, I, uh, I just listen to a lot of music and I just hang out with my dog and no, I, I just like do it.

• 24:07Graham Stephan?

  You do it solo? There's no one else in the car?

• 24:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:10Jack Selby?

  Crazy. Just music.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  Well, people, people ride and they want to go to the bathroom. And it's like, we're not going to the bathroom. We gotta do 1400 miles a day. We're driving from San Diego to Dallas today.

• 24:18Jack Selby?

  Have you ever had to relieve yourself while driving?

• 24:21Speaker 01

  No, I could, I could wait till the field stops. Okay, just, just checking. I don't know.

• 24:25Graham Stephan?

  That's impressive that no coffee, no like.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  I don't drink coffee or anything like that. You just, you just get out on the road and do it. And listen, it's really annoying. It's, it's becoming more annoying too, as the, as I get older. But there's no other option for me in my situation and it's just, it's, it's what it is. It's just what you have to do.

• 24:41Graham Stephan?

  What do you mean there's no other option?

• 24:42Speaker 01

  Well, I, I.

• 24:43Graham Stephan?

  Can you fly?

• 24:44Speaker 01

  I live, well, I live in the summer, 3000 miles away. And I bring my dog and like, I need a car. I need the car.

• 24:50Graham Stephan?

  I see, okay.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  And I need all the stuff. And so like, it's pretty, I could, I could sign someone to take the dog and pay them. I could ship the car. I could ship the stuff. Or you kill three birds with one stone and you're just, you're driving through Oklahoma being like, yep, this is what I'm doing today. And it's great.

• 25:05Graham Stephan?

  Is there a trick to like, starting early in terms of like using traffic? Like what time do you wake up on a trip like that?

• 25:10Speaker 01

  You gotta get started super early. And when you're going east, it sucks because you lose time every day because of the time zones. But when you're going west, oh, you get it back and it's beautiful. You know, you cross a time zone line and suddenly it's an hour, you've just gained an hour, even more driving you could do.

• 25:24Graham Stephan?

  Wow.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  It's not fun. I don't like, consider it to be especially fun. And I don't recommend it to people. I used to enjoy it a lot and I really don't anymore. I have a flat tire this summer doing it and that sucked. But it's, it's, it's.

• 25:35Graham Stephan?

  And what, what car do you drive?

• 25:37Speaker 01

  I have a Toyota Sequoia, which is a giant sport utility vehicle that has camouflage fenders.

• 25:45Jack Selby?

  So that's, that's one of the six.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  It's one of the six, yeah.

• 25:48Jack Selby?

  What, what do the other five look like?

• 25:49Speaker 01

  I have a Mercedes station wagon. That's like my regular round town car. That's the car that's gonna go electric when, when the time comes. And then I have this Lamborghini Countach. I have a Carrera GT. I have a Ford GT. We share this with an opposite color.

• 26:01Jack Selby?

  Yep.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  And I have a convertible Mercedes G-Wagon, which is an embarrassing automobile, but I love it. And those are my six.

• 26:08Graham Stephan?

  Why is that an embarrassing car?

• 26:09Speaker 01

  Cause the G-Wagon itself is kind of embarrassing, right? You know?

• 26:12Graham Stephan?

  Is it?

• 26:12Speaker 01

  You see people driving around, you're like, huh. You aren't, don't you think?

• 26:15Jack Selby?

  It's a little much.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  It's a little much.

• 26:17Jack Selby?

  It's a lot, you know, to take in.

• 26:19Graham Stephan?

  Type that is gravitates towards like that.

• 26:21Jack Selby?

  He also was like, you know, Beverly Hills, Hollywood, which I feel like you see that a lot.

• 26:25Graham Stephan?

  Oh, everywhere.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  You do. But there's definitely like a, I wanna project an image.

• 26:29Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  And then the convertible one is like, I wanna project an image and also this is weird and it's a convertible.

• 26:35Jack Selby?

  Hmm.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  But it's great. I can take it off road and I put the roof down. I take my kid to daycare and it, and he loves it and it's great. It's a perfect car for me. But every time someone comes up to me on the road and tells me they like it, I kind of assume they're someone I wouldn't wanna be friends with. It's like, if you're into this car, you're probably not.

• 26:52Graham Stephan?

  But now everyone that I know, cause I, I know two people in LA who have a convertible one.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 26:56Graham Stephan?

  They're car enthusiasts. Like they've owned the car for a long time. They didn't buy it because it's, but it's just, it's, it's a niche car that they enjoy.

• 27:04Jack Selby?

  To a layman, I feel like I expect whenever I see one of those pulling up, like a, like a supermodel to walk out with like a tiny dog in her purse.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:11Jack Selby?

  That's what I expect.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  That is kind of the image, like a very high maintenance, aggressive kind of type person with, yeah, like a tiny dog and like

• 27:19Jack Selby?

  With a lot.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Park it somewhere. Just, just take it. You know, like, and I don't wanna be thought of like that, but that's, I'm, I like the car. So, you know. It's a power top. I push a button, the top goes down. You have any idea how many things you gotta do in a Jeep to get the roof down? Yes. Things you gotta twist and lift off. I just press a button.

• 27:37Jack Selby?

  That is nice.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  That's, that's luxury.

• 27:40Graham Stephan?

  So what cars have you noticed right now that are the most in demand?

• 27:44Speaker 01

  Uh, that's, that's an interesting question. Um, in terms of used cars, enthusiast cars, Lamborghinis are absolutely having a moment. The Countach, the Diablo, the Murcielago, all those cars are, are, when I was a kid, a Lamborghini was like a drug dealer car and like

• 28:01Graham Stephan?

  you Rapper car.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, rappers, like that type.

• 28:03Graham Stephan?

  MTV Cribs.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Right? And, and like the connoisseurs had Ferraris.

• 28:07Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  And that's changed. These older Lambos are finding a new audience with real car enthusiasts who are really starting to like get into them and appreciate it and take them back to stock. Take the rapper wheels off them, take the tinted taillights off, you know, all the stupid crap that people did in 2003 to MTV Cribs.

• 28:22Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  And those cars are shooting up. I'm stunned to see Lamborghini market every single day. It's crazy. Obviously, Porsches are incredibly hot right now. That's every car enthusiast or wannabe car enthusiast is trying to get into the Porsche world. Getting allocations for special new Porsches is impossible. It's almost a game in itself. Surprisingly, it seems like Ferrari has actually dropped off a little bit. Um, they're kind of overproducing, it seems like, and especially except for the very specialist cars. It seems like Ferrari doesn't quite have the gravitas over those other brands that it once did. Um, SUVs, old SUVs are really hot still. Old Scouts, Broncos, Land Cruisers, things like that. People are really into them. Um, but I would say generally the market is cooling, like we were talking

• 29:04Speaker 01

  about. Like I, I don't see a lot of cars right now that are, that are shooting up or about or poised to shoot up. I would say just about everything is cooling off.

• 29:12Graham Stephan?

  Do you think that's because the market might be topping out a bit and people are more cautious or that everyone who wanted a car has bought a car?

• 29:20Speaker 01

  That certainly happened. I think a lot of the people, there was, there was a lot of horse trading that went on in 2021 and 22. A lot of people who held on to cars for years suddenly saw their value double and they got out and new people who wanted the car for their whole life got in and they don't want to sell, especially because they're not going to make money right now. They think if they hold for longer, they might and they don't need the money. In a lot of cases, people who bought F40s or whatever. Um, so I think there's definitely some of that. And also just, yeah, the market is just a little bit slower. And so, you know, things just aren't shooting up like they were. I think, I think a lot of cars had a quick rise and now there's just nowhere for them to continue to rise. After, after three years of, in some cases, cars went up 50, 60%, it's not going to sustain. So it'll continue. So these cars will continue to get more valuable, but just not at the, at that rate.

• 30:04Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. What gives a car an it factor?

• 30:07Speaker 01

  That's interesting. I mean, I think, I think these days, the analog stuff is really hot. Everybody wants the old manual transmission stuff, cars with fewer driver aids, cars with fewer screens, fewer computers. That's like the hottest thing, which is, which is by and large, sort of the, you know, late seventies to the 2007, 2009. Those cars are really hot, which coincides with people who are our age getting into money and, and okay, maybe I might want to consider buying a car like that. But I think that, you know, low production value is a big one. Movie, if a car was in a movie, it's special. That, I mean, people come up to me all the time, my Ford GT, and I remember I saw Ford versus Ferrari. And

• 30:50Speaker 01

  even though it's the new Ford GT and not the old GT40, there was a huge, there was a huge lift, at least in awareness. Wolf of Wall Street and the Countach is obviously a big one. And, and just a good backstory helps too. You know, this was the first like wedge, the Countach is the first wedge car and, and the first car with scissor doors, et cetera, et cetera. Designed by this Italian master when he was young. And I think cars that have sort of some of that cool history, you know, the F40 is Enzo's last car, that, that, that helps. Things like that help. Cars that are made just for rich guys to seem cool, they don't, they don't have as much specialness to them.

• 31:25Graham Stephan?

  What cars have you noticed that have lost some of the it factor lately?

• 31:29Speaker 01

  You know, it's interesting. Ferrari for so many years had, had like the, the market cornered on the it factor. And, and you buy the Ferrari and you had to sell it back to the dealer because they were worth more. And then you split the profits with the dealer. It was a great situation. And they, in order, they're a public company now, in order to really kill, you know, get all the, squeeze all the juice out of every buyer, they've really come out with some cars that are probably too expensive, probably too overproduced, and they're dropping in value like crazy. And the first time in my life, like I could walk into a Ferrari dealer and buy a couple of new Ferraris today without a waiting list. And that's interesting. And you have to wonder whether that continues. Does Porsche kind of come up and start taking the mantle that Ferrari once had? It's interesting to see that. Meanwhile, older Ferraris are starting to get more desirable because I think a lot

• 32:13Speaker 01

  of people are looking at the past and saying, this isn't coming back.

• 32:15Graham Stephan?

  It's interesting. You mentioned the Ferrari. Uh, being able to walk in and get a car. I saw that the SUV is now beginning to sell under sticker.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:26Graham Stephan?

  But the dealers say that there's a two-year list.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it depends on the situation. The SUV is still hot. SUV just came out today, six months ago. Um, and, and so I find that it's, that it's, I've found that it is still hot. They still seem to be selling for decent money. The one that it's really getting, they're really getting killed on is the SF 90, which is like a 600 to 700,000 dollar kind of super sports, hypercar, supercar. And that's just a tough price point right now. When, when, when, when capital is more expensive, interest rates are higher and, and 700 grand's a lot of money, especially on a car that isn't limited production.

• 32:56Graham Stephan?

  So is it still possible to buy a Ferrari and then sell it back to the dealer? Cause this is something I learned about for the first time, like a year ago. I didn't know that there were so many like handshake agreements, like, hey, we'll sell you this car, but just, sell it back to us so we could then resell it for even higher. I had no idea this was the thing.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  And I think what ends up happening in a lot of cases is if you play that game and you play it to its conclusion, then you will get selected to buy the really high-end stuff, um, which really do gain value. So, if you're willing to buy a Roma, a Roma coupe, all the other GTC4 Luso and SF 90, et cetera, lose money on all of them. They will start submitting you for cars like the SP3, which just came out, which costs two and a half billion dollars. But in the secondary market, those cars are already selling for double. And so if you're willing to roll the dice and lose a lot of money upfront, Ferrari will kind of start slipping you some of those really, really super high-end cars. And that is absolutely still going on.

• 33:50Graham Stephan?

  Are they giving those to average buyers who are just, you know, working their way up? Because I've heard that they need, like, you have to have a collection of these other cars to be selected, show up to Ferrari events.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  No, in order to get cars like the SP3, it's not just buy a Roma, buy a GTC4 Luso. There's more to it. But those are the basics still. And I got buddies who get all those cars and have, and have multi, multi-million dollar car collections, everything you could possibly want. And even they are still required to buy the Romas and the, and they, they basically, what they do is they buy it at the dealer. They drive it home or to their collection. They never touch it because they don't care about those cars. And then after the six-month lockup is over, they take it right back to the dealer and they say, sell it for me. And sometimes they lose money on those cars, but it's worth it to them to still be selected for the super high ends.

• 34:31Graham Stephan?

  It's interesting, a buddy just bought the Roma and he said it was basically a brand new car that the guy bought.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 34:37Graham Stephan?

  Just to sell it back, like as soon as the lockup was up. But it was like a brand new car, almost no miles on it. The guy just didn't drive it.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  That's a lot of Roma.

• 34:45Graham Stephan?

  But just like had to buy the car.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so then you gotta wonder, well, how many of these cars are, is there even demand for? Like real demand, right? Because a lot of the people who are buying them are just fake people who just want to get the high end stuff, but not most of them. Like most Romas are being sold to end users, but certainly some of them are being sold to guys who are playing the game. And those guys make money playing the game. But it takes a while.

• 35:06Jack Selby?

  Why doesn't Ferrari just increase the price? Right. To be able to like find some sort of market equilibrium.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  I, I, my, I've made this point for years and I totally agree, but I think the, I think the answer is they already make great money on those super crazy cars and they want that carrot for the people to buy the other stuff. Because, right?

• 35:25Jack Selby?

  Because it boosts the sales of the, the low.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  So they can sell the Romas and they can sell the, the lesser stuff, more of them, if they know that those guys know that they're going to make a million bucks on the supercar every 10 years or something. And so like, if Ferrari tried to start making the money on those cars themselves, the people would be like, screw you, I'm losing money on Romas and I'm losing money on the supercar. I'm not, I don't want to play the game anymore. And they can't do that.

• 35:48Graham Stephan?

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• 36:04Jack Selby?

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• 36:47Jack Selby?

  Cards issued by Sutton Bank, member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. Thank you to Ramp for sponsoring this episode and back to the podcast. What do you think are some of the best cars to own for the average person out there?

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Um, honestly, I think that your Model Y is a really, really excellent all-around car.

• 37:04Jack Selby?

  Just don't pay the I paid for it.

• 37:06Graham Stephan?

  If Jack buys it, just do the opposite.

• 37:09Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  Good verse, Jack.

• 37:10Jack Selby?

  Sell it to me.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Um, those Model Y's are, are excellent all-around cars, which is proven by the fact that they're everywhere. They, they're, they fit everybody. Like you got a family, Model Y. You got, you got, you're just you, Model Y. You got a dog, you got, you're a couple. Like they does a lot of stuff and on that same level, like the RAV4s and the CX5s, the gasoline kind of versions of that. They're a little bit more downmarket, but cars like that, I recommend these. People ask me every day, like my, my friends or people from my past. What I get this in my budget, you know? And the answer is always like, get a CRV, get a RAV4, get a Model Y, like just, just like, I never try to push people into weird. All those cars are tremendously competent. When I was a kid, there were some trash cars and there were some good cars.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  And now basically all the cars are good. And so people be like, I'm deciding between a CRV, a RAV4 and a CX5. And I'm like, which one, which one, which salesman is nicer? Which one, like which color do you like that? Like those cars are all very competent, but there's, they're all pretty similar. Even for a normal person, but the good news is they're all pretty good.

• 38:15Jack Selby?

  What car do you think has the least amount of maintenance of someone that wants to just buy a car and never have to like do anything to it? Aside from like electric vehicles, obviously.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  I would say electric vehicles, except that some don't like some EVs. I mean, you hear about problems Tesla has, you hear about problems that Rivian has. An EV should be the answer, but I don't think that all EVs necessarily are being produced right. Not all EVs are with the same like level of production care that maybe some long-tested gas cars are. But otherwise the answer is, I mean, get a cheap Japanese, the answer is still Corolla Hybrid, Prius, cars like that. Those are the cars you can own. You won't lose much of depreciation. You won't lose much of fuel costs. I often think about this. If I was just somebody who didn't care about cars, and what a great burden that would be lifted off of me. Like, I drive around and I'm like, I see Priuses and I'm like, I wish I could just have that.

• 39:01Graham Stephan?

  You couldn't be happy with the new Prius?

• 39:03Speaker 01

  I like the new Prius. They never, oh, it's cool as hell, but like, I can't drive. I gotta drive special cars. I can't drive a Prius. Like, but it would be so freeing to just have a Prius. And like, get 55 miles per gallon and it's a pretty nice looking car and it's actually fairly quick and it's got good tech. And just sit in there and listen to my Spotify, driving around a Prius. That would be a dream.

• 39:24Graham Stephan?

  What's holding you back?

• 39:25Speaker 01

  And then you sell it 10 years later and you lose like four grand.

• 39:27Graham Stephan?

  What's holding you back from that?

• 39:29Speaker 01

  I just, I'd like to drive special cars. Plus, I, the Sequoia I need to off-road. The Prius is off-road. That's a real thing. And my Mercedes station wagon. Mercedes station wagon. You gotta have a Mercedes station wagon. People don't Mercedes station wagon. It's out there in the world.

• 39:44Graham Stephan?

  Now, one thing I've always been curious about, why aren't they making more EV convertibles? Why is this not as common?

• 39:50Speaker 01

  I think, you know, it's funny you say that because we just had an EV convertible here, the MV Cyberster, which is not sold here in the United States. But it was excellent.

• 39:57Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  I think that the general thinking is enthusiasts are not EV buyers. And so if you're gonna go to the trouble of developing an EV, which is already, especially in the United States, kind of a niche product. You want it to hit the broadest segment of the niche that you can, which is why Model Y, Mach E. All the new EVs that come out are compact midsize crossovers because that's what people are buying. There's not a lot of gas powered convertibles anymore, to be honest. There's probably only seven or eight.

• 40:23Graham Stephan?

  Why is that?

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Convertibles are over. People don't want it.

• 40:26Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 40:26Speaker 01

  I, there was a time when you could get convertibles of like, like the Chevy Cavalier had a convertible, like Toyota Camry had a convertible. It's, it's, it's over. People want SUVs. They just want SUVs. That's, that's, that's the hot car of this era of this generation.

• 40:41Graham Stephan?

  I thought everyone liked convertibles. Maybe that's through like the 90s. It's just like the wind in your hair and the.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  I think the.

• 40:47Graham Stephan?

  Free, I don't know.

• 40:48Speaker 01

  I totally, I totally agree. But the, and I wish I could get my, our four GTs and I can really give.

• 40:52Graham Stephan?

  Oh, what is it? The GTX?

• 40:54Speaker 01

  But even then, like, I wish they had done a factory, you know, I wish there had been a thousand of them that you could just go get one. But it's just over. Can, SUVs, SUVs have won. They, they, they beat everybody. They beat out.

• 41:07Graham Stephan?

  It's so funny. I'm not a fan of SUVs.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  What are you driving day to day?

• 41:10Graham Stephan?

  A Tesla Model 3.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  You don't want a Model Y like him? He's sitting up higher than you. He's got your car, but he's sitting up. He's like this.

• 41:16Graham Stephan?

  It's also the safest car. Safest car, better range. No, I just had my car. I'm so just like, I don't like the payments. I don't like the idea.

• 41:23Jack Selby?

  He's ready to sell his car. He just wants to sell it and like, you know, make a little bit of a profit. Even though he bought it six years ago. That's, that's.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  But the Model 3 is kind of the perfect car. It's like the Prius of, I mean, it's like the perfect car for the. I've, I released a video about the new Model 3, which just came out, the updated one. I, I titled it and talked heavily about in the video. The Model 3 is the best automotive appliance and people are so angry, but that's what it is. And it's great at that. Like it is fantastic. It drives for you. It, it, it, it doesn't cost much to own. It's just a simple, easy thing. But it's not something I think people get passionate about most, mostly. But people got angry. I guess some people are passionate about it. That's not how I like it.

• 42:00Graham Stephan?

  For me, I just need A to B. Like for a while I was driving a 2006 Volvo that I, that I paid a thousand dollars for. And that was my driver for the first like two years in Vegas, just A to B. Just something simple, cheap.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Model 3 is great at that. Prius is great at that, et cetera. And that's what those cars are, that's what they do. They do great. I mean, there's those companies that do Vegas to LA and they all have Teslas. It's, it's super simple to own. They do huge miles. They don't have huge fuel bills. The Model X's can get a lot of people on them.

• 42:29Graham Stephan?

  So is there any other car out there that's losing a ton of value right now?

• 42:32Speaker 01

  I mean, EVs are certainly the, the top of the peak when I think about cars that are losing a lot of value. Any big luxury cars always are losing a lot of value. Mercedes has classes and BMW 7 series and cars like that. Those are just always kind of deeply, deeply depreciating, but people go in knowing that.

• 42:47Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. What about the Cybertruck? I saw you sold the gold one recently.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. For like a hundred and four or something like that.

• 42:52Graham Stephan?

  Hundred and two.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Cybertrucks are definitely losing from where they were. Uh, but the demand is, the, the sales are actually more robust than I expected, considering they don't seem to be hard to come by new. I expected resale actually to, to drop further than it has, um, already. I, I thought they'd be a 60, 70 by now, but they're not. But they're dropping for sure.

• 43:13Jack Selby?

  If you want to buy something like the Mercedes S-Class or something like that, like a super nice Bentley, how many years, like when is the perfect time to buy it where you get the maximum amount of depreciation, but you still get like a nice new luxury car?

• 43:24Speaker 01

  That's a great question. I think about this all the time because usually by the time it's gotten down to a price point where I would want to buy it, then reliability starts to become an issue, right? Like, like Bentleys, you want, everybody wants a Bentley. That car's so cool, right? Well, you're not spending 400. I mean, you lose 200 grand on an afternoon on that car, right? So then you think, okay, well, I get a five-year-old or a seven-year-old one. Well, seven-year-old Bentley's out of warranty. There's a lot of components in that car. There are expensive components. Then that's a dice roll. So it's like, I don't know. I, there's, there's, there is a right period in there, but it's probably different for each car and depends a little on the manufacturer's certified pre-owned warranty structure and, and your risk tolerance.

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• 45:33Graham Stephan?

  Why are these cars so difficult to both maintain and fix? Like you would think that if you're spending a house on a car that it should be bulletproof.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  But the thing is.

• 45:42Graham Stephan?

  Have issues.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Totally. And, and, and the people who aren't in the market for cars like this always tell me that. Like a Rolls Royce colored and it's $600,000, but it, but it breaks all the time. It costs a lot to fix. That doesn't make sense, but you got to understand that ultimately reliability is not a major factor for decision making for a person who's buying this car. They will own this car for the original owner, who's the only person Bentley really cares about, right? They're going to own the car three or four years. They'll lease it or own the car for three or four years and they will have the experience they want, which is a fast, powerful car with great technology and unbelievable, you know, accoutrement lighting throughout the car and all this beautiful stuff. Well, the third owner buys a car when it's 12 years old and those things that made it so appealing when it was new are now a liability.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  It's fast while the powertrain is needlessly complicated and expensive to work on and in some cases bespoke, right? The, the technology, which was so cool 10 years ago now has aged and the screen doesn't work anymore, right? The, the, the cool lighting and all this other stuff. Well, you know, those things start to break and they're very expensive to fix. And in a lot of cases, the parts aren't available anymore. And that is, that's kind of what happens, but Bentley doesn't care. By then the car is.

• 46:50Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Out of their hands.

• 46:51Graham Stephan?

  Do you think technology is going to make it more difficult to resell cars in the future because it gets dated? It's like telling someone to go and buy an original iPhone these days where it's just, it just functionally wouldn't work anymore without just replacing everything.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, that's a good question. They're doing all these over the air updates. You know, one of the cool things about Tesla is the car is pretty simple. And so everything that needs to be updated is kind of comes through the screen, right? I mean, there's hardware too, but I actually think that.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Potentially the opposite could happen as opposed to you get into an old nineties car and there's just buttons everywhere and it's stuff that doesn't work or you don't care about. Modern cars, these over the updates may kind of save the car from going down that road entirely. But there will be some technology that these like your Model 3 doesn't have and can't, right? That wasn't, just wasn't built with and so eventually off to upgrade, but that's been the story of the car for a hundred years, you know?

• 47:41Jack Selby?

  Is there any reason why they don't sell like newer Miata's or newer exciting cars manually? With manual transmission, I feel like there's such a demand for manual cars right now and they sometimes will sell for a lot more than the automatic cars, like the older cars. Why don't they make any newer cars manual, even like supercars, I feel like they just have paddles?

• 48:00Speaker 01

  I think about it all the time, you could still get a Miata with a manual transmission, believe it or not, a brand new one. But it's a great question in a lot of ways, in part because the Ferraris on the used market and Porsches on the used market will sell for two, three, four times with a manual transmission, what an automatic one will. And I have trouble understanding why, especially Ferrari and Lamborghini. Ferrari is a public company. Why don't they go out and try to maximize what is obviously a market? I mean, you have people paying $300,000 for 20 year old Ferraris where the manual version is $300,000 and the automatic is $100,000. There's clearly a huge demand. Why don't they just go and make new? I've never understood that. I'm thinking of this as a business, like make a limited run and charge a million bucks. People will pay it.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Porsche has proven that because Porsche does still make limited run manual cars and they cost a fortune, they sell for crazy money and Ferrari and Lamborghini could be doing that too. And so could probably some other brands who have abandoned it.

• 48:55Jack Selby?

  Wouldn't it be possible to switch the transmissions? If you were an automaker and you're like, I'm going to buy up all of these old automatic cars, flip it to manual and then make a profit?

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, and in fact, Aston Martin has literally done that. Aston Martin, if you have, if you have an auto, they have not themselves bought it, but if you have an automatic Aston Martin Vanquish, an original one from the early 2000s, you can send it to them, they will convert it to manual for you and then they will ship it back to you.

• 49:16Jack Selby?

  How much does that cost?

• 49:17Speaker 01

  50 grand, but there is a cottage industry has come up of, of automatic Ferraris and Lamborghinis of, and now ER8s of people converting them to manual transmission. It's, it's interesting. The automakers themselves have not gotten involved. They could probably make some real money doing it.

• 49:30Jack Selby?

  What's the reason for not doing it that you could argue?

• 49:33Speaker 01

  I guess the answer is the automakers say it's faster with the dual clutch automatics that they all have now. And Ferrari is all about speed. Lamborghini is all about speed. So we would not want to go backwards in terms of technology. Porsche tried to make the same argument. Porsche almost killed the manual transmission, but it became clear that people were paying up for them. And so they they have come out with special cars that still have them. That's the automakers argument. The truth is, it's just it just costs a lot. Like to develop a transmission that is ultimately by the end of manual transmission production was 10% of cars. But I would argue that you could really pass those costs on to the consumer and in a lot of cases they would pay. I don't think they could make a Ferrari could make a general run manual transmission car anymore, but a limited to 150 unit manual Ferrari. People would lose it. People would people would pay whatever they wanted for that.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  And you can't tell me if they charged 2 million bucks and they made 200 cars that they couldn't justify the the development cost of the transmission is not less more than the cost of that they would make from that. There's no way.

• 50:30Jack Selby?

  What is a feature in just a few or no cars that you think should be in basically every single car? I remember back in the day when I was in high school, a few of my friends, even though it was already pretty old, their cars had aux cords. And and and other people were using like the cassette things where you put that in or you burn your own CDs and stuff like that. And I was thinking to myself, why doesn't every single car have an aux cord? It couldn't be expensive to install something like this or USB ports. I remember when those were coming out and like no cars had them. It's like such an easy decision that every car should have.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  I think about this a lot because I drive all the cars and it becomes abundantly clear to me when driving all the cars that people who design cars don't. And because there are some very clearly obvious things that they should be putting in that other automakers do and they aren't. Dash cam is a good example, actually. Automakers are starting to integrate dash cams just barely, like two cars do it. Tesla has done it for a few years. BMW and Mercedes have started to do it. No one else is really doing it. But they're still like GM is just just getting there. 10 years, every car's got a dash. Every new car's got a dash cam, my prediction.

• 51:35Jack Selby?

  That's a good one.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  But like, it's like, come on, like, do this. There's a lot of stuff, though, that I think about. And it's there's some little stuff that I think about that I wish other cars would do. But another good one is Hyundai's. Most Hyundai's now, when you're driving along, you put on the turn signal and a camera pops up in the gauge cluster that shows what's in your blind spot. And so if you're making a lane change, you don't have to do the over the shoulder. You could just look down at your blind spot camera. It's a very wide angle. It clearly shows what's there. And I don't know why everybody else doesn't have that. It's brilliant technology. There's a lot of stuff like that that I wish, I often think to myself, I wish I could have this car with the, this feature from this car and this feature from that car.

• 52:10Graham Stephan?

  Do you think maybe the insurance industry is like lobbing against those cameras? It's just like, because you would think that if they had more accidents, they would make more money and they can up your premiums. Like, is there somebody?

• 52:22Speaker 01

  You know, the insurance industry seems to make money. No, I think that the automakers would put anything in that they possibly could in order to convince people not to buy the other guy's car. And so they would, they would do it if they could. I just think some of them haven't realized that they should.

• 52:36Jack Selby?

  Those are great answers. I want to know what, what other like things do you think some cars are missing or cars in general miss?

• 52:41Speaker 01

  I think about this all the time, but there's all sorts of just little stuff in some cases. I love the fact that my Toyota, when you lock the door, the lights stay on. And if you press the lock a second time, the lights turn off. So if you want that entry lighting to stay on, great. But if you want to manually do it a second time and turn off, that's brilliant. And all Toyotas do that and no other cars do. There's all sorts of like little features that I see in all sorts of different cars that I just wish you could aggregate. Some cars now have rear view mirrors that are a camera. And so you're driving along and you, you want to look in your rear view mirror. Well, you don't have to look through the people in your backseat, which is unsafe. You, you have a camera mounted on the back of the car that's showing the display is on the rear view mirror. That's a great feature, but not every automaker has adopted it. I have no idea why. A lot of them are starting to, but it's like, there's all sorts of things that I just think

• 53:25Speaker 01

  to myself, I, I wish this car had this and, and I wish I could pick and choose the features from all the cars.

• 53:30Jack Selby?

  I think anything that prevents people from getting locked out of their cars is also very, very easy and most cars should do. I remember my friend growing up had one of those cars with the keypads and I thought that was genius. I loved it.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  Ford and Nissan had those keypads. Ford still does and Lincoln. Nobody else really does it and I don't get why.

• 53:47Jack Selby?

  I love.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  There are some automakers, one cool feature that some automakers are doing is an activity key. So like you have your key fob, but like. If you're going to swim.

• 53:55Graham Stephan?

  Hmm.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  It'll get wet and destroyed. And they, it's like a, it's like a wristband that you can wear that's waterproof. Or like if you're on the basketball court, you can have your wristband on and that's your key. So you can lock your keys in the car with your activity key and then go and do the sport or whatever, which is in the same thing. Great idea. Why doesn't everybody do it? I don't know. Only, only like three of them have figured out that people want that. And maybe in some cases, people don't want some of these features, but I, I want them.

• 54:17Graham Stephan?

  It would be interesting to have facial recognition, like your iPhone.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  Genesis GV60 has that.

• 54:22Graham Stephan?

  Are you serious?

• 54:22Speaker 01

  If you set it up, you walk up to the door, you look at the, you look at the car and then it unlocks and you can get inside.

• 54:28Graham Stephan?

  They should have that to drive too, to drive, to take the car.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  It also is to drive. You can be complete. So that means you don't even need to, like Tesla's, you need the phone. Some cars, most cars, you need a key fob, right? Tesla's and some of the other new ones, you need a phone. That car, you need your face and you're all good.

• 54:42Graham Stephan?

  That's incredible. I would also love it if it's able to tell like blood alcohol.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:47Graham Stephan?

  And so no one could drive their car if they're under the influence and just had something.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  That's another thing future generations will look back on and be like, that was a thing you could do. Like there will be some. I don't know if you've ever seen it, the ignition interlocks that people who have multiple DUIs have to have.

• 55:03Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, they blow into it.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  It's actually pretty simple technology. Like they just get in the car, they blow, it says, and then they drive off. Like it actually only takes a few seconds. Not that I'm advocating everybody should have to do that, but like. There must be some, if there was some real push for it, there must be some way that you could kind of, now you have your passenger do it or whatever. That's the problem.

• 55:19Graham Stephan?

  Not if there are cameras inside. Like it would be able to tell with AI, just like, no, you have to do this. It's not your passenger.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  And then you start thinking about, well, do you really need to go over a hundred miles an hour, right? Like should cars be limited to a more rational speed? Cause a lot of times speed is a huge factor in accidents and you can have some of these kind of.

• 55:34Graham Stephan?

  That's interesting. Do you ever think we're going to get to a point where the government can control what you do with your car? And how fast you drive it and which locations, like your car automatically won't go over 50 in this location, this day. When there's people around.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  Do you offense? I mean, that maybe, um, you know, the, the threat of enforcement is much more significant in some other countries. That therefore does have that effect. I mean, in Switzerland, there's cameras everywhere. If you go two miles over the speed limit in Switzerland. You get a ticket. If you go 50 miles an hour with the speed limit, you get arrested. Like, they're militant. Now, it can't stop you in the moment, but it has that effect. Like, you drive around in Switzerland and people go the speed limit. And Swiss drive the nicest cars in the world and they all go like exactly.

• 56:18Graham Stephan?

  Japan, too. It's exactly the speed limit or one under.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Right. Everybody's terrified in those places. Um, so they're, they can affect it in that way, but do we get to that point? I don't know, maybe. I have a suspicion, not in our lifetimes and certainly not in the US, which has been slow to even adopt speeding cameras. Speeding cameras in the US have a huge pushback.

• 56:35Graham Stephan?

  People have fought that.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  In Europe, in a lot of European countries, not all, but in a lot of European countries, they have done it and they have just been like, it's for safety, screw you. We don't care what your, what your response is. And they've just kind of heavy-handedly put them in a lot, a lot of countries.

• 56:47Graham Stephan?

  What I think is gonna happen is that you could, uh, share your information with insurance companies. And they'll monitor exactly how fast you go and then adjust your premium based on that.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that could.

• 56:57Graham Stephan?

  Tesla did that with their insurance.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  Right. And as the cars get more connected, you could see that happening more and more likely.

• 57:04Graham Stephan?

  And I would bet that they could adjust your premiums in real time. Where you could go on the app, just like with Tesla and say, oh, my premium went up because I sped. Or because I'm driving in these hours.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  And now you have a huge incentive to slow down.

• 57:16Graham Stephan?

  Who's cutting edge these days in terms of advancing technology?

• 57:19Speaker 01

  You know, it's, that's an interesting question. It's not who you'd think. Like, people think Tesla. I think because Tesla has a reputation for being advanced, but like Tesla's missing some stuff. I get in Teslas, I'm incredibly annoyed. They still don't have a top-down camera, which I think is wild. Um, they got a lot of good stuff, but the truth is, all everybody wants now is Apple CarPlay. That's why everybody just wants that. It's just simple. It's easy. It's easy. Or Android Auto. It's like easy to use, easy to figure out. And so that's kind of like where this whole industry has gone. There's only a few automakers who are fighting back against it, which is Tesla, Rivian and, um, General Motors, believe it or not. But General Motors has completely integrated with Google. And so they have Google Assistant, Google Maps, all over their cars, which has its own great benefits with your smartphone, right?

• 58:01Speaker 01

  You can like have, if you sign in, you can have like previous history and all sorts of other stuff. Um, I don't know. It's, it's, it's cutting edge is, is an interesting thing. It's starting to kind of become less relevant.

• 58:13Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. Any features, though, that could be like really futuristic? Like, I remember when heads-up display was like, that was the coolest thing.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, self-driving is the obvious one.

• 58:22Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  And, and people want it, and some automakers are doing a really great job of it. Tesla's one of them, but other automakers have systems that are at least as good. And then, of course, General Motors has Super Cruise, which is quite impressive. If you're, if you want to look forward, which not everyone does. My view on Super Cruise and those systems is like, if I wanted to look forward, I would just drive the damn car. The whole point of these systems is I want to look, I want to text, you know? Am I wrong? Like, that's what we really want to do. We really want to just scroll Instagram while we drive. That's what we want to do, but we're not there yet.

• 58:56Graham Stephan?

  I remember back in the day when Tesla self-driving first came out. This is 2019-ish, I started using it. And you could just put a weight on the steering wheel.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:06Graham Stephan?

  And it just was uninterrupted for

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 59:09Graham Stephan?

  like 20, 30 minutes.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  And now it's so sensitive. You look in the backseat for one second and grab something, it's like, do, do, do, do, do. This is the drawback of Tesla's system, actually. There are some systems that are not like this, just FYI. There are some systems where the only check on you is capacitive touch on the steering wheel. And so, then it's not looking at your eyes. And so, as long as you have skin on the steering wheel, it is cool with driving.

• 59:32Graham Stephan?

  Skin?

• 59:32Speaker 01

  Skin.

• 59:33Graham Stephan?

  Or a skin-like.

• 59:35Speaker 01

  Doesn't have to be your hand.

• 59:35Graham Stephan?

  It could be someone else's skin.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  It could.

• 59:38Graham Stephan?

  Skin your.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  There are people.

• 59:40Graham Stephan?

  I'm just saying, in theory.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  There are people, I've certainly never done this, who adjust the steering wheel to touch their knee. And then, you don't really have to have.

• 59:48Graham Stephan?

  How can it?

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Your hands can be elsewhere, you know what I'm saying?

• 59:50Graham Stephan?

  How can it detect skin from other, you know, materials?

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Capacitive touch, right? So like, just like your iPhone screen detects skin versus if you put that water bottle on it.

• 59:58Graham Stephan?

  Wow.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  So like, a lot, that's, that's a lot of, Tesla doesn't do it. Well, I don't know why. Tesla still is weight-based or eye-based. But most of the other brands have capacitive touch for steering. And so, you just need to have a hand or some other body part on the steering wheel, and it will, it will drive. And indefinitely. So like as long as, as long as you have the steering wheel down and touching your knee, you're good.

• 1:00:21Graham Stephan?

  What cars are these?

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  A lot. Mercedes Benz and Toyota. I know that because I own a Mercedes Benz with Toyota.

• 1:00:26Graham Stephan?

  Chrysler is. That's why you don't own a Tesla. That's why you have two cars.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  Well, I'll tell you, driving that Toyota across the country with that feature is really beneficial.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  Chrysler is the most permissive.

• 1:00:37Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  You could do whatever you want in the Jeep Grand Cherokee.

• 1:00:39Graham Stephan?

  Go figure.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  It's a pretty good setup.

• 1:00:43Graham Stephan?

  That's funny.

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  But more and more of them are moving to an eye-based thing, which kills the fun, but probably makes people more safe.

• 1:00:50Graham Stephan?

  It's probably because Tesla has more eyes on them from a regulator standpoint.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  I agree with that.

• 1:00:53Graham Stephan?

  And they have to be like on it versus Chrysler's.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  Truthfully, the eye-based monitoring is the future. That's what's gonna happen. It's more and more people, automakers are putting it in their cars. There is a short period here where the skin thing is acceptable. So like, maybe cars in 50 years, the skin cars will still be valuable.

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  It's the one car you don't have to look at the road.

• 1:01:15Graham Stephan?

  Do you think that robot taxis could ever be a thing at some point?

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you know, when?

• 1:01:20Graham Stephan?

  It seems so far off. Like I'm using the Tesla full self-driving and it's still so buggy.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:25Graham Stephan?

  And it's just, I'm on edge.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  Plus, you live in Vegas. Like ultimately, what happens in Minneapolis, right? When it snows? This is what I think about. Like I was self-driving, they got 90% of the way there in a couple of years.

• 1:01:36Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  And that last 10% is hard, right? You can, anybody can make a self-driving car drive down a road, stop at a stoplight, turn on a simple, nice day, wide road, well paved. But like, that's, that's not when I want the car to drive, right? You want the car to drive when it's foggy and icy and you're terrified and you don't, you don't trust yourself. You want the car to be better than you. Truthfully, right now, all the cars are worse than you, right? That, that may not be statistically true, but in those edge case scenarios, you'd rather be driving, right? If it's icy and foggy, you'd rather have the wheel than, than Tesla full self-drive. And that's the problem. And it seems to be one that they're having trouble surpassing.

• 1:02:14Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. It could be just a false self-confidence that I feel safer because I'm in control.

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  Well, a lot of those systems will.

• 1:02:19Graham Stephan?

  The data seems to show, yeah.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  The data does show, but, but I think a lot of the data comes from sunny days.

• 1:02:25Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  A lot of those systems straight up turn off in snow, in heavy rain, in fog.

• 1:02:29Graham Stephan?

  Or when you're driving into the sunset. When the sun is shining and it just shuts down.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Like, sorry.

• 1:02:35Graham Stephan?

  You can't see it and it's like they can't do it either.

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. What do you mean? You can't. It's wild to imagine, but that is true sometimes.

• 1:02:42Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. So for people who want to make money on cars, what are you seeing these days for investment grade vehicles?

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  I think the only way right now to truly make money on a lot of these cars is to hold. I think that the days of flipping a year later is not realistic. I think there are cars that are investment grade that are gonna go up, that are, that seem cheap now. 550 Maranelle, which we were talking about before, that's one of them. Any gated manual transmission Ferraris, not any, but some gated manual transmission Ferraris. Lambos, like I said before, I really think have, have a long ways to go. But I also think nothing's gonna happen soon. And I still have trouble believing that cars will be a good investment relative to other stuff. I told you that owning a Ford GT is like owning bonds. I feel that way.

• 1:03:25Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:25Speaker 01

  The GT has, continues to go up a little. It, it never goes down. It's pretty reliable to own. But like you compare it against the S and P's up 60% last two years, this GT ain't doing that. And even if it was, you gotta service it. You gotta pay insurance. You just store it somewhere.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  You know, so there are ways to make money in these cars. Now, I will say, I have all the service history for my Carrera GT and I looked it up this, from the second owner until when I bought it, if he had held it that long. It did beat the S and P, including all maintenance, all repairs, and even if you add it in fuel and insurance.

• 1:04:00Graham Stephan?

  What was the original MSRP of that car?

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  For 40. And they're now.

• 1:04:04Graham Stephan?

  No.

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  Average now amount of million, million three, million five, something like that.

• 1:04:08Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  But it's hard to know.

• 1:04:09Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  It's hard to know.

• 1:04:11Graham Stephan?

  But that's also buying kind of at the peak of the S and P before the great recession where it went down.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:17Graham Stephan?

  The car outpaced right afterwards. So there's like a few variables.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  I think the second owner of that car bought it in 09. So some of that decline, I don't think the first owner would have beaten the S and P. Well, maybe, maybe because of the decline after. But regard, the point remains like there, there are, the possibilities exist. But like, they exist in hindsight. It's just like buying Nvidia. Like, they exist, primarily exist in hindsight, right? Like, who knew that that car would take off and some of the other ones wouldn't? Remember, that car when it came out was. Price the same as the McLaren SLR and the Ferrari Enzo. Well, the Enzos took off too. SLR is are cheaper than they were in oh five. And how would you, how would you know? It's, it's, it's difficult to know what was gonna happen.

• 1:04:54Graham Stephan?

  Why is the SLR not gone up in value?

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  They made a ton of them. They're automatic transmissions and they have some drawbacks. For example, the brakes, to replace brakes, it's $10,000 a corner. So four brakes is $40,000. Now, on a Carrera GT that costs a million bucks, you can kind of justify that. It's harder on a car that costs 250 and that there's 3,500 of. That's kind of the problem with that. Plus the automatic, I mean, people don't want automatics. Then, you know, on an investment grade, collectible car, the manual transmission has turned out to be one of the big distinguishing points.

• 1:05:24Graham Stephan?

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• 1:06:23Graham Stephan?

  So what cars today do you think would make a good bond strategy?

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  I still think 4GT. I still think 4GT. I think those 4GTs are going to continue to rise. They're still cool. People still seem to be interested in them. I think that one of the, one of the things that makes that car particularly appealing as a bond strategy is that it's not expensive to own.

• 1:06:41Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  That's not true of almost every other car that will probably increase in value. Countach will probably outperform the 4GT, but it ain't cheap.

• 1:06:50Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did a full service on my car and I think it came to about $1,000 from the Ford dealership. And they replaced the, the struts in the, that hold up the engine bay in the back.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  The, um. Carr GT is in service right now. It's for 20 grand for like a pretty minor service. Like those cars, cars at that level are expensive. And that's the problem. So some of those cars I think will gain in value. But the thing that makes the Ford GT so desirable in that world is just how affordable it is to own. While it's also slightly climbing in value.

• 1:07:27Graham Stephan?

  What I find interesting, and this is, this is something that you should get into, Jack, is these no stripe Ford GTs. These cars used to be the least desirable because everyone wanted the stripe on the car. And so few people order the car without stripes.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:07:42Graham Stephan?

  And now the without stripes cars are so rare that they're selling beyond what like the Heritage model was selling. Why do you think I should get one?

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  I should have got into it 10 years ago.

• 1:07:52Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. Do you want the market to plummet or something? You want to buy one in about two years? No stripe. Is that where your plan is?

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  I have been surprised. The thing about the Ford GT that's interesting especially is that the cars are all the same. And so the distinguishing factor is a few little things that wouldn't matter to 98% of people. People are astonished when I tell them blue ones are worth a lot more than white ones. What do you mean? They're the same. Well, they made a lot less blue ones and the market for some reason values that weird thing. I actually prefer white and I don't, I've decided that I don't really like Heritage. I think Heritage is kind of ugly.

• 1:08:26Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  You drive around and it looks like a race car. It's got all these orange things. It'll be weird. You drive that thing, people will be like, that guy's weird.

• 1:08:32Graham Stephan?

  I think it's gone. It's over the top.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  Driving that around, people will be like, oh.

• 1:08:36Graham Stephan?

  The average person, it doesn't look, it doesn't look as cool as like the other supercars.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:40Graham Stephan?

  To the average person.

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  But and then there's that component of it too. People think it's a Ford. People ask me if it's a Mustang. I don't know if you get that. It's like, well, kinda. I don't want to have a, it depends how much I want to talk to them in that.

• 1:08:49Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, sure.

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• 1:09:21Speaker 06

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• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  But nonetheless, the cars are generally desirable. You know, I a blue one with my miles sold recently for like $350,000, which I was at, I have 43,000 miles on my car. I was absolutely stunned.

• 1:10:31Graham Stephan?

  And what did you buy yours for?

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  $225 in 18. And I've put 13,000 miles on it. So I drove it a lot. I drove to Palm Springs last week and and back and, you know, it hasn't cost much to own.

• 1:10:46Graham Stephan?

  What about for the average person who's not spending 300, 400,000 on a car? What do you think is the best investment grade vehicle that they could drive and at least not lose money on?

• 1:10:55Speaker 01

  Interesting question. I'd have to think about it.

• 1:10:59Graham Stephan?

  I'm going to say Honda S2000. That's my.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Certainly, if you're talking about specifically not losing money.

• 1:11:04Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  There's a lot of good stuff.

• 1:11:06Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  S2000 is a great example, and that's another car that is pretty affordable to own. Porsches, lower level Porsches came in and Boxer don't really depreciate all that heavily, especially if you buy them pretty depreciated. And honestly, they're pretty reliable. People think German and they get worried, but Porsches are pretty reliable, even lower level 911s, 996s and 997s, early 2000s.

• 1:11:28Speaker 01

  There's a lot of cars like that that you can that you can do kind of generally okay with. Even Corvettes, C7 Corvettes, you know, like 2010, 2012 era Corvettes are kind of hitting bottoms of depreciation curves and are just not expensive to own and drive and operate. I would probably pursue things like that. Where enthusiasts get into trouble is the BMW M3s, the cars that are wonderful and fantastic, but problematic. You have to be a real enthusiast who's willing to like spend money to have that experience. And those cars can be troublesome.

• 1:12:02Jack Selby?

  What do you think about the 2000's manual Gallardo's?

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:06Jack Selby?

  Do you think, because they're they're not that expensive.

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  They're not as expensive as they deserve to be.

• 1:12:10Jack Selby?

  After having all of these, you know, car YouTubers on the podcast for a long, I've always liked cars. And I always thought the Gallardo was cool because that was kind of as I was growing up. And you'd see that car.

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:19Jack Selby?

  It was the most common Lamborghini that you see. It's like, oh, supercar. I always liked the car and it's kind of convinced me to like, look into the market a little bit. And it seems reasonable. And I heard that they're also, in terms of maintenance, not that bad.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  So that that I find that car to be an absolute bargain relative to what it is. It's a manual V10. I mean, they're not, that's a really, that's a credit to you. That's a really special car.

• 1:12:43Speaker 01

  There's some, there are some things I think that have held it back. It's always going to be the lesser Lambo, right? The Murcielago was always there. And so you're always, people have a belief that the very earliest Gallardo's with the 5.0 V10 are not as reliable and that they later upgraded to a bigger, slightly bigger motor. And those are more reliable cars. I don't know if that's true, but that's the belief. The especially the 04 cars, which is the first year are like less reliable. But I think those cars are cool as hell. I mean, that's 90 grand. You drive around a stick shift. It's a Lambo. It looks cool. Most regular people can't tell the difference between that and a Murcielago, which costs two, three times as much. I think those cars are undervalued, but I'm not entirely convinced that they will gain that much because the market has had a long time to appreciate those cars and it never really has, you know, in a weird way.

• 1:13:25Jack Selby?

  But it seems hard to imagine losing a ton of money.

• 1:13:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:13:27Jack Selby?

  Considering like, how can they really sell for much more than?

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  Absolutely, they can't go lower. Your only loss would be in maintenance and repairs.

• 1:13:35Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  Which may be significant, but you know, probably still less than the depreciation on your Tesla.

• 1:13:41Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, actually, your Tesla, your Tesla costs more money than a Lamborghini.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  I do think about that a lot when it comes to, you know, my Ford GT, people like, oh, I can't afford a Ford GT. It's like, well, I'm up 100 Gs. You can't afford not to get a Ford GT. Like, when you really, I mean, it's insane because the price of entry is still high. But like a Ford, people think I'm nuts for driving around a Ford GT. They got a new Explorer and it's like, that car's lose 25 grand in like two years. I, I don't do that in my cars. I buy all my daily driver cars used. Like, I don't, I can't justify losing new car money on that stuff.

• 1:14:12Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. That's always been my mindset too, is to buy a car that you're not going to lose value on. Like my Lotus Elise didn't lose anything. Lotus Exige didn't lose anything. The Ford GT is up.

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I, I, and, and yet you've got this Model 3, like you-

• 1:14:26Graham Stephan?

  And then the Model 3 has lost more money than-

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  It's a daily that like you just need a point A to point B car. And that's something that you can care less about the value loss because your cost basis is lower. I think about this all the time. I got a Ford GT that costs a million dollars. But I, like, wouldn't buy a new E-Class station wagon, Mercedes station wagon. I called, I found a used one that matched my taste at a dealership in Oklahoma and had it shipped here. To save however much money off it. I just can't imagine the depreciation head. I just can't do it mentally. It's just not acceptable.

• 1:14:52Graham Stephan?

  Speaking of the Model 3, I think a while ago I added up all the money that I've made from ad revenue off my Tesla videos because one video got like 8 million views. Another video got like 3.6 million views. There's another one with over a million views. I believe all of it together was like $130,000.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:10Graham Stephan?

  For the car.

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  This is how James just, Stradman justifies his, and, and Hoovy and all the other guys. You went and saw Tavora, right? This is how they justify their, their purchases. Sometimes it doesn't make sense though. It makes sense for you and for others in some way, some limited ways. I worry about Freddie. Do you worry about Freddie?

• 1:15:29Graham Stephan?

  Every now and then before I go to bed, I think, I wonder how he's doing. That P1. How much does that cost again? But you know what? I mean, that has made, I don't want to say it's made his channel, but like over the last year, it's constantly number one trending.

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  I worry about all the other car YouTubers, though. Nonetheless, I worry about all of them. They all make horrible decisions. You need to go visit all of them and teach them how to do things correctly.

• 1:15:55Graham Stephan?

  But you know what? Ed Bolian, I have to say, is so meticulous about it.

• 1:15:59Speaker 01

  It's better.

• 1:15:59Graham Stephan?

  Hoovy genuinely loves everything he's doing and would be doing it regardless. So like, he's the exception.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  He's nuts. He's nuts. He's making money, right? You know, he calls me in the spring every year and he's like, the taxes are going to be due next month. I gotta sell some cars. Like, that's the level he's operating at. This happens every year. I'm not screwing with you. That's the level he's operating at.

• 1:16:21Graham Stephan?

  But he's a different mindset. I don't think he cares. For him, I don't think it's about money at all. I think genuinely, like when he bought the Fisker Karma, I felt like that was just a moment where it's like, he's gonna lose a ton of money on it. It was horrible.

• 1:16:33Speaker 01

  And watch his videos and worry about him. And that's true of all of them.

• 1:16:39Graham Stephan?

  But yeah, to Varish, I think the P1 is, he's spending so much money on it, but he's making it back. At least on the videos.

• 1:16:47Speaker 01

  They do. To his credit, they do. His channel does great, but like, I just am scared about all of them.

• 1:16:52Graham Stephan?

  Who are you most worried about?

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  Freddy probably is the number one I'm worried about. He's got a big overhead. He's got like three garages, like warehouses. I don't understand why he really, like,

• 1:17:03Graham Stephan?

  He's fixing up like 20 cars.

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  He also doesn't release content all that often. That's the thing that scares me about Freddy. He posts like once a month and he's just, the audience is obsessed with him. Like, I think he's nuts in a great way. Like, I love watching the content, but like, it would be nice to get, you know, more updates and posts. And I think that's, that makes me scared. Plus, I know that he's got a loan on that P1 and it's significant. And so that really scares me.

• 1:17:26Graham Stephan?

  I think the views are offsetting it, but.

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 1:17:28Graham Stephan?

  The one person I watch all the time, James Stradman.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  Stradman is my guilty pleasure. I love Stradman.

• 1:17:34Graham Stephan?

  I watch all of his videos.

• 1:17:36Speaker 01

  Okay, do you agree? Stradman sidebar here. Do you agree that it's, his house isn't even done? Like, you watch the video where he went through his house.

• 1:17:44Graham Stephan?

  So we visited him and we saw. House gorgeous house but needs the backyard needs the basement.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  The basement's like just.

• 1:17:52Graham Stephan?

  It's a it's a lot of money. It's it's it's tough either way because if he finishes it. I don't think he's going to get back dollar to dollar what he spent.

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  Absolutely not.

• 1:18:01Graham Stephan?

  But if he sells it unfinished, it makes the market so much smaller for whoever's willing to buy that house with an unfinished basement to spend more money.

• 1:18:09Speaker 01

  This is the problem that I think a lot of these people run into is that um. They end up buying these these they get a lot of young people get money and they're like, oh, I wanna I wanna palace with a moat. You know, like a lazy river that goes around the whole thing and they do all these things and realize those places are expensive to keep going. And often in order to get a place like that, you have to buy land so far away from where land is desirable that it makes it hard to justify. Putting that much money into the land because at the end of the day, when you go to sell it, the buyer pool is really small. I go on Zillow and I see these like 25,000 square foot houses in the middle of nowhere. It's just like.

• 1:18:44Graham Stephan?

  You're never. Asking $4 million for it, like a hundred dollars a square foot.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  Right. And it's like your buyer pool is limited and even at 4 million like this, this is gonna sell for 1.6 in seven years. When you come to terms mentally with the fact that it's only worth 1.6.

• 1:18:59Graham Stephan?

  It was tough with him because I remember talking to him before he was building the house and his mindset at the time was I I I just want like a 20 car garage. But I can't just build that because they won't permit it. So I have to build the house for resale value. So that I have a structure that a family or someone else would want to buy. The thinking I thought was correct, but it's just.

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  It's it's snowballed a little. I have this severe belief. Maybe militant that you you should live somewhere where your land is more valuable than the improvements you make to it like.

• 1:19:29Graham Stephan?

  Oh, it's a very California thing to say.

• 1:19:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, idiot, or or dense area, right? Like, that's also true in nice neighborhoods in a lot of cities. Like, I only ever buy old homes that are that are, you know, in in. Kind of historic type neighborhoods that are very established long term and I worry about the deep suburban living and. Massive house that is unsellable in the future kind of situation.

• 1:19:52Graham Stephan?

  I'm gonna ask you a question. Do you think he should sell the Koenigsegg?

• 1:19:55Speaker 01

  I would have sold that Koenigsegg. I'm not a Koenigsegg fan. I don't, I don't find them that cool. I don't find that interesting. It's his dream car. He, although we are about the same age, he is a different generation than me. Like, he's into the Koenigsegg Pagani stuff, and I'm into the Countach 4GT stuff, like the manual older. And now he's a Countach also, and he had a 4GT, but he's clearly more into the more modern, kinda crazy stuff. Um, I don't care about Koenigsegg. Like, and by the way, everyone I know who has a Koenigsegg has problems. Everyone I know.

• 1:20:23Graham Stephan?

  What are the problems?

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  The problems are that the car is hand-built by the company that designs and builds every little part themselves. And so stuff breaks. And when stuff breaks, you can't go to the Koenigsegg dealer, cause there isn't one. And even if there was, which in some cities there are, there's no, like, parts supply. Like, they built all these things themselves. So like, a little thing breaks, and it's like, a Ford dealer, you go to the Ford dealer, they get you a mirror power mirror switch. And a Koenigsegg, that's like a bespoke part that they made a limited run of 19 years ago. That's hard.

• 1:20:52Graham Stephan?

  So who's buying Koenigsegg?

• 1:20:53Speaker 01

  Who's buying Koenigsegg? And why? It's crazy. I don't understand it. I truly don't understand it.

• 1:20:59Graham Stephan?

  How is it different from Pagani?

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  Same kinda thing.

• 1:21:02Graham Stephan?

  But I feel like, I don't hear complaints from Pagani owners.

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  Pagani's use a powertrain that is sourced by Mercedes-Benz, right? So, so at least that component of the car, which is a pretty significant component of the car, is taken care of, right? That component of the car is, you're gonna be able to find parts. In fact, that engine is still in production. So that's easier. And other than that, though, I would worry about Pagani's in, in, in, in all the little intricacies. That stuff scares me. What if that stuff starts to break? I don't know, you're not getting that stuff. It's true of any bespoke car. And honestly, 4GT parts supply, oh five 4GTs, they don't have a lot of those parts anymore either.

• 1:21:38Graham Stephan?

  Ford, you know what, I'm going on eBay, and probably gonna reveal the secret of buying 4GT parts.

• 1:21:42Speaker 01

  It's a smart idea. The guy I bought mine from, he bought seats, he bought steering, big stuff. And he was able to sell it. He hoarded, he bought it when the car was new, when all those parts were easily available. And he sold it 20 years later for like 7X20, you know, every part was like in high demand.

• 1:21:57Graham Stephan?

  I'm talking to this guy on eBay, who has every part that he's been hoarding for 20 years. He just bought everything. And he has duplicates.

• 1:22:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:07Graham Stephan?

  Cause I needed like a gauge. And he's like, oh yeah, I got like three of those.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  Which gauge failed? My fuel gauge is in on right now, yeah. Well, right now, my, with the car is full, it's reading empty, which is

• 1:22:16Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, same. Mine is always empty, but I just top it off. Anytime I take the car out, I just topped off and I park it.

• 1:22:22Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, but no, I, the answer to who is buying Koenigsegg is people who already have everything else. That's like, oh, I got a Bugatti and I got a, you know, a bunch of Lambos and a bunch of Ferraris and a bunch of Porsches. Like, I want to go to the next level. And that's Koenigsegg. And the cool thing about Koenigsegg, to give them credit and Pagani, is that like, you can shake the hand to the guy.

• 1:22:41Graham Stephan?

  Yes.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  You know, like, Ferrari is a company now. Bugatti is a company. Like, those guys are dead, right? Koenigsegg, you can literally meet the dude. It'd be like meeting Enzo in period. And so there's something special about like joining the Koenigsegg club. I just don't, it doesn't do anything.

• 1:22:55Graham Stephan?

  What's going on with people leasing these cars these days as like a lease to own?

• 1:23:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I guess if you're doing it for your channel and you own the biz, you can write off a significant amount of it.

• 1:23:06Graham Stephan?

  Correct.

• 1:23:07Speaker 01

  And I, I got, I realized you could do this too late. I never once did it. And now I don't own the biz anymore, which is unfortunate. So, but it's a, it's a big thing that I think all these guys are doing. And everybody's like, well, you, you don't own the car then. Well, the leases aren't set up, people think of it like a traditional car lease. It's not really like that. Like, at the end, you have this, you've, you've, a lot of it has gone into equity. The car's not depreciating really. You can, you could re-up the lease. People lease these cars sometimes two or three or four times. Yeah.

• 1:23:35Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  But the drawback is these massive payments. I mean, so Stradman is making like $20,000 payments or whatever it is on this Koenigsegg.

• 1:23:40Graham Stephan?

  30.

• 1:23:41Speaker 01

  That's not out of the norm, by the way, in that segment of the market. A lot of guys do that.

• 1:23:46Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. Oh, Steve Hamilton, his payments were just through the roof. But for him, he was like, you know, I financed these at low interest rates.

• 1:23:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:53Graham Stephan?

  I'm not doing that anymore, but all the ones I got like three years ago, it makes sense to have these payments at 3%.

• 1:23:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:59Graham Stephan?

  Even though they're high.

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  Think about what the cash, right? He would have lost out if he had put all that cash under those cards at the time, probably.

• 1:24:04Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:04Speaker 01

  So it was the right call. It's just, it's an astronomical number to see, right, in your bank account coming out every month.

• 1:24:11Graham Stephan?

  I'm sure of the three, I think he said his payment was like 33,000 a month. I'm sure of that, probably 31 goes towards equity.

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 1:24:20Graham Stephan?

  My guess. And then his balloon payment at the very end is going to be a small amount.

• 1:24:23Speaker 01

  Right. Like, at the end of the day, it's going towards the car that he owns, which is fine. But like, damn.

• 1:24:29Jack Selby?

  Yeah. What are you noticing these days for cars and bids buyers in terms of financing?

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  A lot of our buyers are cash. And I think that is especially more true now that interest rates have gone up. I know I have just, I financing is just, I'm not going to finance at seven percent, car seven percent, or eight percent, or nine percent. That's, that's just not, I can't justify that mentally. We, we are surprised at how many of our buyers are cash, but it makes sense when you consider, these are third cars, these are enthusiast cars, they've always wanted whatever. We offer a financing through Lightstream on our site and people do it. But, and, and, and, you know, sellers have financing, buyers have financing, it happens. But I think that people are trying to avoid it if they can.

• 1:25:12Jack Selby?

  How can the average person buy a supercar or their dream car for that matter? Where would you recommend that they start looking? How can they know that they're not getting completely ripped off? What would, what would your just general advice be for them?

• 1:25:23Speaker 01

  Forums are still unbelievably helpful, which is insane because like they were helpful in 1999. You know, like, but car forums are like Ferrari chat and all the, the Ford GT forum. They're all still shockingly helpful. You can get an enormous amount of information with regards to common problem areas, what to look at, which shops in your era, area are shysters, which ones are great. You can get a lot of really good info on the forums. I have learned basically everything I needed to learn about the cars that I've bought from car forums. And talk to owners, try to drive one if you can from an owner, try to Turo one. A lot of these cars are available on Turo and you can rent one and see if you fit, see if it fits in your driveways, you know, et cetera, all that stuff. And, you know, I always tell people, the number one thing I always tell people is you're buying the seller.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  So like, you're not, don't even think about you're buying the car. Read the seller. If, if the seller uses the, the word should of, and he spells it should space OF of, guy's not changing his oil. That guy is not changing, that guy, that guy is, that guy has nine year old mismatched tires. Like, I spend an enormous amount of time when I'm buying a car just trying to like read the seller. Google everything about the seller, try to learn everything I possibly can and see if they, the Countach, for example, I bought it from a deadbeat, I knew it going in, I, he was. Misrepresenting the car, lying about the condition, but I knew it and I knew it was gonna be hard to find another one like I wanted. And so I went in knowing I would have to spend a lot of money to get it nice. No, it needs nothing. He's an idiot. And he did write could have.

• 1:26:50Speaker 01

  That was, that was, that was a red flag number one, but I knew it and it was fine and I did put the money in. But if you want a nice car, I, you read the seller and really try to learn as much as you can about the car before you go and do it. And try to get a pre-purchase inspection from a reputable shop, although I've, I generally find that pre-purchase inspections are so hit or miss that I don't find it as worth, I'm a guy with a lot of money, but I don't find it as worth it as, as some people say.

• 1:27:16Graham Stephan?

  I always thought that was the go-to to get it. Yeah, same.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  Pre-purchase. I've had too many friends get a pre-purchase inspection and then get burned.

• 1:27:23Speaker 01

  Or not get one and then the car is perfect. Like a lot more of it to me is like, look at, in the, on our site, look at every picture, everyone. Look at, look for clues, look for clues in the service history, watch the driving video 14 times, you know, make, make sure it's shifting right, make sure it's sound. Like, I think that stuff is generally better than some mechanic who's not familiar with the car, trying to diagnose it in that moment in time. Who knows if XYZ part that can't even be seen is on its way out, you know? And I also have a rule that you just have to assume you're gonna put money into a car and you buy it. People are always so mad when they buy a car and it's not perfect. It's like, this is a used car driven by enthusiast. It's gonna have needs. I always budget in my mind a 10% on top of the car to, to make it right.

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  And I, I generally feel if you can't afford that 10% on top, you should probably focus on a less expensive car.

• 1:28:14Graham Stephan?

  For me, I find the comments actually the most helpful.

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  Comments are tremendously helpful.

• 1:28:17Graham Stephan?

  So, uh, you know, in, in tune with, with certain cars and I've seen like seller and picture 97. The cap you used isn't the original cap and was a replacement. Did you lose the original?

• 1:28:30Speaker 01

  Sellers hate this. On our site, sellers hate this, but it's, but. Number one, it's really useful for buyers.

• 1:28:37Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:37Speaker 01

  And number two, if you are representing a good car and representing it well as a seller, it can benefit you. Like, if you can push off the crazy commentators and be like, nope, that actually is the right cap. And here's, we tried three different ones in here. You can come in and look at, and I always tell people, buy the seller. Well, the seller can in that situation rise up and actually look like a real expert who's representing a car really well. And I've seen sellers who hate those commentators and they're terrible, turn it around and actually make it clear that the seller really is an authority. And then, instead of complaining, I always tell sellers, try to answer his question really thoroughly, using good grammar, and prove to people that you, your car is good.

• 1:29:14Graham Stephan?

  Interesting.

• 1:29:15Speaker 01

  And it works.

• 1:29:16Graham Stephan?

  This might be controversial for something like a Countach. What are your thoughts about buying a replica?

• 1:29:21Speaker 01

  Uh.

• 1:29:21Graham Stephan?

  Like a Diablo?

• 1:29:22Speaker 01

  You know, a lot of the replicas are just not, they just weren't done well. And, and then nobody's doing the replicas anymore. And so, very few have really survived. I think that, um, there are some very rare, nice replicas that are cool. Um, but, you know, the, the real thing is just the real thing. If you can, if you can afford it, it's worth doing. If you can't, the kind of people who care can often tell. Like, when I see a Countach rep, I just know in two seconds, like that it's fake.

• 1:29:50Graham Stephan?

  What's the dead giveaway?

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  It's usually proportions, because it's based on a non-Countach, and they had to fit the body of a Countach, the fake body they created of a Countach, onto the chassis of a car that is longer, or shorter, or, and if you spend enough time looking at the car, you could just tell instantly, like, oh, that, that panel is wrong, that whatever.

• 1:30:08Graham Stephan?

  What about if they stretched the chassis, though?

• 1:30:10Speaker 01

  There are, there are replicas, and actually, we had around Cars and Bids, there are replicas where they just build a tube frame, like, from ground up.

• 1:30:18Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:18Speaker 01

  Where they, there isn't even a chassis, and they just go, they just fabricate the whole thing.

• 1:30:22Graham Stephan?

  Yep.

• 1:30:22Speaker 01

  And I'll be honest, we had, we had this, this red.

• 1:30:24Graham Stephan?

  The red one, I watched it.

• 1:30:26Speaker 01

  That car may have fooled me. The giveaway was, it didn't have a gated manual. It still had the shift lever from whatever car they got the motor from, because they, those things had to marry. But like, everything else was.

• 1:30:40Graham Stephan?

  Was that the only, was that the only giveaway? Cause I saw the, the rear end, and I was like, trying to compare it with. The real thing and like I

• 1:30:46Speaker 01

  The problem is to make a replica that nice, you gotta really spend. So they had a Lambo steering wheel. They had a Lambo seats. They had Lambo wheels. Getting wheels for a Countach probably 25 grand. Like to do it, to do it right. It's, it's so hard that it's not worth, like by the time you're done, you're probably in the car almost as much as a real one would be. And then it'll never sell for, obviously it'll never sell for as much as a real one. But that car was pretty

• 1:31:07Graham Stephan?

  For me, it would be like, I would love a Countach or a Diablo, but I think I would be so worried driving the car around. It's not easy to drive. I'd be terrified of, of maintenance.

• 1:31:17Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:31:18Graham Stephan?

  So it just seems like a

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  It's not that bad. You should get a Diablo.

• 1:31:22Graham Stephan?

  No, I'm good.

• 1:31:23Speaker 01

  Everybody's terrified of maintenance. If the car is done right. There's this guy in Ohio who's a wizard. His name is George Evans and he is like the guy for Countach Diablo. And I sent the car there and I spent 50 grand with him and my car starts every single time and my car drives well. And I told him, I was, I, when the car came back, I was like, I'm really impressed with the work you did. And he goes, honestly, I go toe to toe with the factory. Like I, I, you compare my work to the factory's work from the period, it's gonna look as good.

• 1:31:50Graham Stephan?

  Are you ever nervous about driving that car?

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  I'm nervous about driving the Carrera GT because of the value. The Countach doesn't scare me. Do you mean because of the value or because of the, I might break down?

• 1:32:00Graham Stephan?

  Value.

• 1:32:01Speaker 01

  Uh, no.

• 1:32:01Graham Stephan?

  Value or like getting a door ding or someone merging into you or it's like a

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  I, the mistake I made with my Carrera GT and the mistake I was thrilled not to make with the Countach was, I bought a mild car that actually has some issues, like some, some, some cosmetic issues. If you look closely, even from here, you, well, maybe not because the Bentley's in the way, but I scraped the front bumper. The, the panels were painted at various different times. Um, I really wanted a car I could use specifically for that reason. And so, no, I don't get worried about that stuff because it's already kind of rough. Like the car should be repainted. If you want, if you wanted a Concorde's perfect car, you'd repaint it. Um, but I'd rather just have a driver and so I don't worry about that. I, nonetheless, I do take the precautions. I, I, I clear film the windshield on all my cars.

• 1:32:43Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:32:43Speaker 01

  Because a new Ford GT windshield, a Countach windshield is not really, you can't like get one anymore. So that kind of, I try to be a little careful.

• 1:32:50Graham Stephan?

  Okay. And what about the Carrera GT? Do you not park it places for fear out of like?

• 1:32:56Speaker 01

  Carrera GT is the greatest car ever built. However, um, I just wish it wasn't so expensive. I wish I could use it more. And I use it a lot. I've, I've had the car two years and I've driven it 4,000 miles in those two years, which is a lot considering I'm not here in the summer, right? So I drive the car only nine months a year.

• 1:33:14Speaker 01

  But I am terrified parking it. Yeah, I'm terrified putting it anywhere. It sucks.

• 1:33:22Graham Stephan?

  What's the longest you've ever had to hunt for a spot?

• 1:33:25Speaker 01

  I just don't really take it places where I have to park it anymore, which is so sad.

• 1:33:29Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, it's probably you take it out and then you pull it right back in.

• 1:33:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I do big drives like that. Like, I got no qualms about doing 200 miles in a day in it like. But I, I, I, I will, I've got to go to this place. I'll take the Courage G T. Look at the key. Think, do I really want to? The other thing is like, I'm gonna take it out to dinner, right? Well, then you gotta sit at dinner worried the whole time. I would rather just drive a BS car and not have to think about it. And so I always do. My wife has only ridden in the Courage G T once and the Countach once.

• 1:33:57Graham Stephan?

  Did she like it?

• 1:33:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like, it's just not the kind of car I take out. You know what I mean? Like, and I wish that wasn't true. I wish that car costs 400 grand and I could just be like, like the Ford G T. I drove the Ford G T on a dirt road the other day. Like, I consider that my beater supercar. Like, I just abuse that car, partially because I know it's tough and it can take it. But also because Courage G T is just, it's not even a Courage G T is not even a fragile car. But if something happened, and imagine if you're someone who hits one, like you're in personal bankruptcy at that point, I think, because your insurance maximums ain't covering that.

• 1:34:29Graham Stephan?

  Right.

• 1:34:30Speaker 01

  That's a tough situation for everybody.

• 1:34:31Graham Stephan?

  So what's insurance look like for you on a car like that? Are you, I, I take it you're insured on all that sort of stuff, but?

• 1:34:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's expensive, you know, to insure those cars. I think Courage G T costs 15 grand a year to insure.

• 1:34:43Graham Stephan?

  Wow.

• 1:34:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a lot. Ford G T is nothing, you know?

• 1:34:47Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, I pay like 150 a month, something like, or maybe less. I think it was like $110 a month.

• 1:34:52Speaker 01

  Courage G T is expensive. It's a really valuable car.

• 1:34:55Graham Stephan?

  Wow.

• 1:34:55Speaker 01

  Sad. What's the total overhead of owning these six cars? You know, it depends on the year because last year I'd spent, had a $50,000 Countach service. The year before that I had a $50,000 Courage G T service.

• 1:35:09Speaker 01

  It depends on the year, but I knew both of those were coming when I bought them and I factored that into my purchase price. And honestly, I think especially on the Countach, if I were to sell the car today, I would get every penny of the 50 grand back. It's just showing that you did a big, important service at the right guy. With the right parts, people are so scared of maintenance on those cars that having that proof is a big deal when you're going to sell it. But you know, sometimes, I don't know, I haven't done anything at Countach since then. It has cost me a dollar since the service. That was a year ago, almost exactly. So last year, zero. But the year before, 50. So 25 grand a year. Of course, it doesn't really work like that. But I don't know, the fixed costs insurance is obviously the most expensive. The, I think all the cars together are probably in the neighborhood

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  of 25 grand a year or something to insure, maybe 30 grand a year to insure.

• 1:35:58Graham Stephan?

  How much value do you think you add to the car? Because I'd imagine there's a premium for having your car.

• 1:36:04Speaker 01

  I think that for the cheaper cars, when I go to sell them, there is that premium. I sold my Land Cruiser, I sold my Defender. Those cars are, you know, Land Cruiser is 35 grand car, the Defender sold for like 90. I think people were like, oh, it'd be cool to have one. And also, it'd be cool to have Doug's. I think when you get into this realm, people don't care about that stuff. Everybody who had a Countach was somebody. Everybody who had a Carrera GT was somebody. People care more about having like, the car is well made. And I think there's, in a way, some of these cars may even get hurt by the fact that some YouTuber had it. They assume if you're a YouTuber, you're probably hooning it or doing dumb stuff with the car. Which is one of the reasons why I'm militant about maintenance repairs, making sure everything is beautifully documented. Because I really maintain these cars the way a true enthusiast would. But I don't think these cars, I would get a premium.

• 1:36:48Graham Stephan?

  I, I don't know. I think it would, just having the car that you reviewed. And I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that just say, hey, would you review my car? And then they could turn around and say, I seen on Doug De Miro.

• 1:36:59Speaker 01

  For certain, when we sell the cars on the site that I reviewed, which is on Cars and Bids, when we sell them after I review them, they definitely get more money. But I think part of that is because just the, they went to a wider audience. But there is some, some people find it fun, for sure, that like, they have the car that was in the Doug video.

• 1:37:14Graham Stephan?

  I think it'd be cool. I think this is the Doug car. It was on the channel.

• 1:37:17Speaker 01

  It's definitely cool. That may be worth some premium. And certainly, like I said, for the cheaper cars I sell, there is some premium. But I think the type of people who would buy a Carrera GT are They're not, they're not paying up for me. That, that's, it's a very specialized car and they're fairly available. And so you want to find the right one.

• 1:37:32Graham Stephan?

  Be like the Jerry Seinfeld car. Those get.

• 1:37:35Speaker 01

  I asked, I asked Leno the very question you asked me and Leno was like, no, I don't think my cars have a premium. Leno doesn't sell anything.

• 1:37:40Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:40Speaker 01

  But he's like, I don't think my cars have a premium. And I'm like, I totally disagree. But Leno's the kind of guy who would never say that. Like he's, he doesn't want to think of himself that way. He like, he wants to think of himself as sort of a down home, like I do my own work kind of guy. And in a lot of ways he is.

• 1:37:53Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:53Speaker 01

  But it's, he's still Jay Leno and I think that his car, all of them, it would be able to say this was out of the Jay Leno collection.

• 1:37:59Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, big deal. What do you think are the most overrated cars?

• 1:38:03Speaker 01

  Uh, I mean, the, the one I'm most known for, I really think the Lexus LFA is overrated. I think that car is way more valuable than it should be. I think, I don't think those cars kind of suck. I think honestly, a lot of the Koenigsegg Pagani type cars are kind of overrated. A lot of the, a lot of the new cars that are made to be special just for rich guys. I find to be really kind of gross and, and then just not cool. Like there's a new Countach, like, but it was just an eventual rebody. It's not, that's not a special car. The old Countach was a special, unusual, crazy thing. I find a lot of those like special editions just to make rich guys feel like they got one. And so they're special are really overrated cars. And I think the market will realize that there's a lot of those cars.

• 1:38:46Speaker 01

  They are valuable now. I don't think they're going to be valuable in 20 years.

• 1:38:50Graham Stephan?

  So what car stereotypes have you found are true?

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  Almost all. People have stereotypes for a reason, man. Raptor owners really are like that. Dodge Ram owners really are like that. You know, I, I find almost all cars, the vintage Porsche guys are the annoying watch obsessed, you know, like the, they are, all the car stereotypes are, are generally true. I typically.

• 1:39:14Graham Stephan?

  So what stereotypes are there for the Carrera GT owners?

• 1:39:18Speaker 01

  I think that Carrera GT owners are, um. A lot of them, as I have come to learn, but I think, and I think the stereotype is out there, is that they're obsessed with keeping the car pristine, never driving it so that the values continue to rise. An enormous portion of these guys don't touch their cars and are like, kind of keep it in a bubble type guys. People are, whenever I post a picture of mine anywhere, people are like, I can't believe you're driving it. It's like, that's a car. And also, you know, it's, it is really the greatest driver's car ever built. And so there's this stereotype that like, it's a hard car to control and to own. And so the type of people who would actually drive one, they must know what they're doing. You know, I don't feel that way. I feel the car is actually pretty easy to drive, but.

• 1:39:54Graham Stephan?

  And what about Ferrari, Ferrari owners?

• 1:39:57Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, Ferrari owners have the stereotype of all the Ferrari gear and bragging to everybody that they have a Ferrari and all that. I generally find that that, that often is the case. Like, those guys are really proud that they have a Ferrari. And sometimes it's like, okay.

• 1:40:10Graham Stephan?

  Do you know how to tell someone has a Ferrari?

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, they'll tell you.

• 1:40:14Graham Stephan?

  They'll tell you.

• 1:40:14Speaker 01

  A hundred percent of the time. Like, really, really out there. It's actually funny. I think about this a lot. Until I got the Countach, my car collection was a Carrera GT, a Ford GT, and a convertible G-Wagon. And to a sort of car enthusiast, none of those cars sound cool. Carrera GT, oh, my uncle has a Carrera, right? They don't, you know, Ford GT, oh, you got a Mustang. Convertible G-Wagon, oh, G-Wagon, yeah, okay. It's an old one with a soft top. And it's like, no, you don't understand. And, and now that I have the Lambo, that, that, everybody knows that car. But I always kind of found it funny that like, to the casual observer, I was just kind of a loser. Whereas some guy who spent 40 grand on a used Ferrari can go brag that he's got a Ferrari. And everybody's like, oh.

• 1:40:54Graham Stephan?

  That's funny. What car would you least like to drive for one year straight?

• 1:40:59Speaker 01

  A lot of very compromised exotic cars. Big cars too are really hard to drive, like giant trucks. I reviewed a Ford F650 one time, which was actually a thing. And the, I mean, stuff like that is just hard. You can't park and you can't get into any building, any garage, anything like that. But also, Countach, as much as I love it, like, when I park it at the end of a long day of driving it, I'm like, I'm good. And I don't take it out for two weeks.

• 1:41:24Graham Stephan?

  What car would you least like to be seen driving?

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  Well, that's a good one. Hummer H2.

• 1:41:31Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 1:41:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, those are pretty.

• 1:41:33Graham Stephan?

  2004, rich.

• 1:41:35Speaker 01

  These days though, Hummer H2s are kind of starting to become cool again, actually.

• 1:41:38Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 1:41:38Speaker 01

  I don't know. There's nothing that.

• 1:41:43Speaker 00

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• 1:43:09Speaker 01

  And I, I am a wide adopter of like all manners cars. I've had Korean, British, German, America and Japanese. I've had it all. I don't really have a lot of like, so you see me in a car that has a bad rap. Whatever, I'm cool with it.

• 1:43:23Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, now in terms of running cars and bids to shift into this, what was the most surprising thing about running a business and taking that from YouTube to like an actual company?

• 1:43:33Speaker 01

  Running a business is hard, it turns out. It's quite hard. There's like customers and employees and it's not easy to do. Like I It's hard.

• 1:43:44Graham Stephan?

  You seem so much more relaxed today than when we first met.

• 1:43:47Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:43:48Graham Stephan?

  Back then, you were very just like, I don't know. It seems like you had a lot going on.

• 1:43:52Speaker 01

  I was obsessive about everything. And it's been nice to have an investor partner who worries about some of that stuff, not for me, but like in addition. But also like running, yeah, running a business is challenging. It is nice to be in a financial position where you don't have to worry. And, and I never really was before. And you know, I was doing well on YouTube, but that cap could be turned off at any time. And, and that helps that, that really, really, really helps. It definitely lowers the stakes from, I absolutely have to do this or else I'll, I don't know what'll happen. To like, let's make this succeed, but it's like a fun project. I actually want a better employee and person now. Even though you'd think it would be the opposite.

• 1:44:37Speaker 01

  Some people work better under like heavy pressure, financial or otherwise. And I think it's actually, I don't, I think.

• 1:44:43Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, you seem so much happier.

• 1:44:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:45Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. Like really.

• 1:44:47Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. No, I mean, there was, there was a, especially that time when we, when we met, like, it was tough. Like running the business was hard. Especially like by myself with my co-founder, like it was hard. There was, there was a lot of work. And at that stage of a business too, you don't, you don't know what's going to happen. Is it going to? And, and that's hard too. So you're putting in these long hours for something that might not work. And, you know, managing employees and managing a space and managing the business and, and the customers, which is the hardest part for sure. It's a lot. It's just a lot. I'm never doing it again. People are like, but yeah, but you say that, but really in a couple of years, no, I'm never doing it again.

• 1:45:28Graham Stephan?

  What was the hardest part for you to get over? Was it the hours or just the?

• 1:45:32Speaker 01

  Getting it going was the hardest part at the very beginning. The first four or five months, you know, you're, that's when, that's sink or swim, especially when you're as public as we are, right? Like a lot of startups, you can roll out to a select group. You can roll out to, you know, a small audience in one state to, to just doctor, you know, whatever, whatever your startup is, I don't know. But like we were, we launched, I mean, we announced the launch the day we launched, you know, and then everyone knew because I was on YouTube and it was a big deal and et cetera, et cetera. And so like those, if it wasn't going to work, it was going to fail. Like in those days, like I didn't have a second chance. There wasn't going to be a larger audience later. And, and we had built a great product, but like it needed, it needed

• 1:46:15Speaker 01

  a lot of effort right then and there. Like there were more customers than we ever expected right away. And then there were less customers than we expected soon after. And it was like, okay, we have different problems now. We got to figure this out. And there was just constant triage and whack a mole and putting out fires. And I'm never doing it again. I straight up, I'm never doing it again. I just, I remember those days and I'm too old for it. And I'm, I probably have too much money for it. I don't have, I don't have the, the ability to like go through it again. And, and also, by the way, the YouTube channel was like that too. And so like, really, I consider it that there were two successful businesses. The YouTube channel also had a very difficult start, a lot of effort, an enormous amount of work, long nights, long hours, long weekends, a lot of travel. Then we started the Cars and Bids business, which was all of those things once again. So like,

• 1:47:00Speaker 01

  it happened twice. And I think that's all you get. Some people get more on, that's all I get.

• 1:47:05Graham Stephan?

  How has your job changed since the investment in Cars and Bids?

• 1:47:09Speaker 01

  The, it changed in my mind for the dramatic better, which is that I don't have to really deal with a lot of the day to day operations anymore. And I can instead focus heavily on the thing that not only do I do best, but I enjoy the most and I am most valuable to the business in, which is making the videos. You know, I was, I was personally setting reserves. Like people would send in their car and I would like be the one to type like, you know, we'll offer you 20, oh, I want 25. Like I personally did that just by myself for the first six months. And we hired one other dude and then me and him did it. And for the next year. So like, it's nice not to have to do that anymore. And I've replaced that time. I certainly don't work less, but I've replaced that time with filming videos, which again is most beneficial for the business to have me out

• 1:47:53Speaker 01

  there. But also I just enjoy it. I, to this day, people are like, don't you get tired of it? And I'm like, nah. Like I'm, the quirks and features. Still to this day, I'm like, I can't wait to see what this Bentley is gonna have, you know?

• 1:48:05Graham Stephan?

  That's so interesting. Do you find that you're less motivated because you have less skin in the game?

• 1:48:10Speaker 01

  No, surprisingly, no. I'm not necessarily less motivated, but it is nice not to be in a position where I, where like it has to be a certain thing, outcome. It's nice.

• 1:48:21Graham Stephan?

  Interesting. Now for sellers who sell their cars on auction websites, I'm curious, does having a no reserve help get a higher price? Or like, what sort of strategies?

• 1:48:30Speaker 01

  If the car is good, yeah. We generally find that no reserve cars bring more money. More bids, more comments, more views, more money, almost always. But you can also get screwed. I always tell people, if you have like a good car that you're confident is good, you take good photos. I tell people, you are your own reserve. Like if you take good photos, you're a good seller who answers questions, who has a video, who has service records, like you don't need a reserve. You just don't. Like that's, that stuff is your reserve. And then, and then going no reserves shows a level of confidence in the car that you know it's gonna do well. And buyers know they're not wasting their time. So that's a winner. If the car is sketchy, I don't know. Like, like, yeah.

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  If you're, or, or if it's just a weird car that you don't know, there's not much comps, you don't know where the market is, you have this idea in mind. Yeah, that makes more sense for reserve. When I sell all my cars, I sell them all with no reserve. And not even cars that I get like views on when I talk about it. Usually when I get to the point where I'm selling a car, I just want it gone. But also I just really feel pretty confident in the photos that I have a professional photographer take. And the way I've, the standard to which I've maintained the car and that, that has shown in those results.

• 1:49:38Graham Stephan?

  And then what about when an auction ends? Is there any correlation between it ending on like a Sunday morning versus like a Monday afternoon?

• 1:49:46Speaker 01

  I firmly believe that weekend auctions are a bad idea. We don't run them. I'm gonna eat my words someday when we expand or run weekend auctions.

• 1:49:54Speaker 01

  We're gonna have to edit all this out. Um, we don't run weekend auctions. Other than that, we have not found a correlation. Some sellers are convinced, I only want my cars on Monday. And it's funny because you'll hear guys be like, I won't sell on a Friday. And so we, we, we will, we will accommodate that. And we'll schedule them not on Fridays, but like you have another seller who's equally as smart in his mind. He's like, I only want Fridays. So I was like, all right, we'll accommodate that too. But just so you know, you guys should talk. We have not found, you would think there would be some correlation, but we have not. Now, I do think that generally speaking, in winter, you probably get a little less money for your enthusiast, especially sports car than in spring, summer, fall.

• 1:50:36Graham Stephan?

  What about correlation between two competing cars? Like I noticed for the Cybertruck for a while, there's only one at a time that would end. And then a few days later, a new Cybertruck.

• 1:50:45Speaker 01

  We try not to run two competing cars at the same time.

• 1:50:47Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:50:48Speaker 01

  With Rivian's, it got to a point where we couldn't do that. There were just so many. We would try to run them geographically distinct. So if one is in Boston and one is in San Francisco, we could run those. They're probably not competing. But I do think that that does have an impact. If you run two cars at the same time, certainly a person could be like, well, I didn't win that one, but I'll win this one. And so I'm not going to bid as high.

• 1:51:09Graham Stephan?

  Interesting. And what about for buyers who buy a car sight unseen? How do they ensure that the car is going to be in good working order? Is it purely just, you know, buying the seller?

• 1:51:18Speaker 01

  Buying the seller? This is one of the reasons we require so much stuff. And sellers get really frustrated with us because it's like, I gotta put in 150 pictures and three videos, and I gotta submit all the documentation and the title and all that. But it makes the process better for everybody, not just buyers, but sellers too. Like when you don't do that, and I got a buddy who just bought a Bentley on a competing platform that just was grossly misrepresented. And when you don't do that, the result is that you end up with an upset buyer who's then going after the seller. The seller is in that situation trying to resolve that. The auction business has to step in. It's a tough thing. You want to try to represent the, you want to try to ask for as much stuff as possible to allow buyers to do as much diligence. That doesn't mean they will. And in a lot of cases, we've

• 1:52:03Speaker 01

  had buyers be like, oh, this dent's on here. And it's like, the dent is in every picture. But they complain and it's like, well, okay, you know, then that's an interest. That's a more difficult problem to solve.

• 1:52:15Graham Stephan?

  How many cars do you deny selling?

• 1:52:18Speaker 01

  A lot, but you'd be surprised. People submit Nissan Rogues and stuff like, like we probably deny more than half the cars that get submitted. But like a lot of the, a lot of it's just open trash, like traffic car, like, like Honda Civics that have the automatic 12 year old Honda Civic with 200,000 miles. I don't know how they found us. Like, what are you doing here? But a lot of stuff just gets denied straight away. So the numbers make it seem like we're very selective, but with enthusiast cars, we try not to be too selective. I like to be the platform that sells the crappy one that it's so rough that if you want to just turn into a track car, you can. And also the nice one that is like, going to be a special show car.

• 1:52:51Graham Stephan?

  To me, I will say, I like how curated it is, that it seems like every day I could go on, see a few new cars.

• 1:52:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:52:58Graham Stephan?

  Read new comments and they're all interesting.

• 1:53:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:53:00Graham Stephan?

  And it's not just, you know, blown up with Toyota cameras.

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:53:04Graham Stephan?

  So I like that.

• 1:53:05Speaker 01

  It tries to be a platform for, when I scroll, you know, on the, especially on the desktop, it's like three across or four across. I try to make sure like in every one of those three across, like other, which one of those, of those three would I get? Like, there's always something interesting in every row and every column.

• 1:53:18Graham Stephan?

  How much work goes into like organizing the cars of like having certain makes and models next to each other? Like, is there any?

• 1:53:26Speaker 01

  Very little of that, but scheduling is, is complicated.

• 1:53:30Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:53:30Speaker 01

  Sellers have their own preferences. Like I said, some sellers have essentials, like I'm going out of town XYZ day, it has to end before that. Or I'm not going out of town until XYZ date, like you can't start until after I get back. Some, and, and, and then there's, you don't want two cars to run at the same time. And so you have to be cognizant of that. And so there's, there's two identical cars. And so there's a, there's actually a lot that goes into the scheduling, but we don't think about it like, let's put a BMW next to a Mercedes or let's not put two BMWs together. That generally doesn't have that on. We do try to balance no reserve and reserve cars. We try to have like no reserve, reserve, no reserve, reserve to try to break things up a little.

• 1:54:03Graham Stephan?

  So if there's so much demand that you turn down half of the vehicles, why not expand the business from cars and bids to something else where it's like, you know, commuter cars or normal everyday cars that just sell at an auction?

• 1:54:15Speaker 01

  We talk about this stuff. I mean, this is, that's, that's, that's an interesting question. You like that it's curated. I mean, I think a lot of people do. I think a lot of enthusiasts like that. However, there's a bigger market out there. Do you do that? Maybe, but do you then alienate the people who came in the first place? Maybe, probably.

• 1:54:31Graham Stephan?

  But that's why it's a separate website.

• 1:54:32Speaker 01

  I'm not starting any more businesses. Maybe you could. Is a regular consumer willing to buy a car that way? You know, an enthusiast will bid at an auction for a car they know they're not going to find another one of. Is a regular person? Maybe, I don't know. These are, these are things we discuss, for sure. I mean, there, there's possibilities there.

• 1:54:50Jack Selby?

  I've always wondered, since the UI seems so great and the dashboard is great, if you could just license and sell all of that coding in backend as a template to other people that are trying to sell other things like watches, or have some sort of bidding wars on anything.

• 1:55:02Speaker 01

  I wonder about that, too. It's really well done.

• 1:55:04Jack Selby?

  It shouldn't be super hard to extract all that. Just pay some dude some exorbitant amount of money to extract all the coding and everything.

• 1:55:10Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, I wanted to do a cars and bids of watches.

• 1:55:12Speaker 01

  We registered watchesandbids.com. Don't go after us, or don't try.

• 1:55:18Graham Stephan?

  So I briefly looked into this. There's a website called watchcollecting.com. It's located in the UK and they do that. But the issue with that is they have so few watches.

• 1:55:29Graham Stephan?

  Guaranteeing authenticity of certain watches can be difficult. Their fee is so high. And every watch has such a high reserve. They don't, they don't hit like half of the watches on there, just never hit any.

• 1:55:42Speaker 01

  It's very difficult, I've learned, I didn't know this before, thank God, so I didn't. But it's very difficult to create a two-sided marketplace, to have, to have enough inventory for buyers to be happy and to have enough buyers for sellers to be happy. It is tremendously difficult to put those things together. When you see the marketplaces that have the reserves that are too high, it means they're desperate for sellers. And so they'll let sellers list at any price they can, just to have the inventory come in. And you would be shocked how many other car auction websites have come up and died since we launched. And I have this theory that I, people see me in the t-shirt and shorts and they're like, this guy's an idiot, if he can do it, we can do it. It ain't easy. It is not easy.

• 1:56:26Speaker 01

  And everybody finds that out. Like, it is very, very hard to get enough inventory going. It's very hard enough to get enough buyers to make sure the inventory gets to the price level where it should. It is not easy. Bring a Trailer Cars and Bids is pretty impressive that this has happened even, because it's hard.

• 1:56:43Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, I certainly think your audience is perfect for it and your viewership was

• 1:56:48Speaker 01

  That was key. Brian and Taylor did it because they took a long time to develop.

• 1:56:51Graham Stephan?

  Oh, gosh, years, years, years.

• 1:56:53Speaker 01

  I did it because I had a built in audience. Other people who try don't realize how important one of those two things is and that you really can't do it without one of those two things. And in some cases, even if you have an audience already, it's still tremendously difficult. I've had other YouTubers try to create car auction websites that have not succeeded. And it's hard.

• 1:57:14Graham Stephan?

  Is there anything you would go back and change, knowing what you know now?

• 1:57:18Speaker 01

  No, probably not. But it was a lot of work and maybe we should have just done a podcast.

• 1:57:27Graham Stephan?

  What lessons have you learned from like building up a business like this?

• 1:57:30Speaker 01

  Do it when you're young.

• 1:57:31Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:57:31Speaker 01

  That's the biggest. Do it when you're young. That is the number one lesson that I would tell people. I had time and I didn't have as much to lose. And that's big. Like when you have kids and a mortgage and three supercars, like it's different. You do it when you're young and I was rewarded greatly and I get a lot of time with my kids now.

• 1:57:53Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. How has it changed having kids while also running a business and maybe kind of shifting back towards the family life?

• 1:58:02Speaker 01

  You just kind of do it. And but I feel bad for the guys who have to grind throughout their kids' lives. Like I obviously no longer have to grind at the crazy level where I was. It's hard to convince people who are 23 to 33 years old to like buckle down and just like focus on creating a business, starting a business and like rocking it. It's so hard because those are the ages where you want to party and hang out and have fun. And I didn't do any of that stuff and I just did a business or two and, and but it's, but I'm so glad that I did because when you're in the family life situation, it is so nice to be able to hang out with my kids. And I, I'm shocked at how much I enjoy family life

• 1:58:42Speaker 01

  and I'm shocked by how much I enjoy being a dad and I'm, I'm cool with the way that it worked out. I'm cool with giving up those 10 years.

• 1:58:49Graham Stephan?

  Have you always been like that? Or did you start enjoying it when you actually have a family?

• 1:58:53Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I definitely thought I was not. The first year even, I was like, I don't know. I'm not sure.

• 1:58:59Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:01Speaker 01

  But once, my first son, once he got older and started talking and like, we're like best buds now. And I just, I love it. It's, it's shockingly enjoyable.

• 1:59:09Graham Stephan?

  So the one thing we hear from a lot of people, they say one of their regrets is not having kids sooner. Do you find that to be the case now that you have kids?

• 1:59:17Speaker 01

  It was the right time for me. I wanted to, I wanted to travel a ton. My wife and I traveled a ton. We met really young, so we've been everywhere in the world together, which is cool. And I wanted to do the businesses and, and we did and got it done and, and it was a huge thing. And now is like the, the next season of my life is the, the season for kids.

• 1:59:35Graham Stephan?

  How do you make sure your kids don't grow up spoiled?

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  I don't know, man. I'm worried so bad. I didn't grow up rich. And so like, I'm actually a little envious of my friends who grew up rich and are well adjusted, which is rare to have both. Because they like know what to do instinctually. They grew up in a household that like raised nice, rich kids. Most rich kids aren't nice, good people. And my kids are obviously going to grow up in a different situation than me. And I, I don't know. I gotta figure that out. I'm, I'm scared of that. I don't know. I honestly don't know the answer yet. They're still too young to have to really figure it out. They, they don't, when someone comes up to me on the street, for example, they don't know, they don't, they just think it's a friend, you know, like, but we're getting there. And so I, and, and we're getting to the point where I gotta deny them presents and be like, no, you can't have that, even though it's obviously affordable.

• 2:00:20Speaker 01

  Um, and teach them that stuff. And so I'm, it makes me nervous for sure. I don't know the answer.

• 2:00:25Graham Stephan?

  From some of the guests that we've had on, the ones with the kids that are most well adjusted seem to be the ones that get thrown into work early on and get to see what it's like to earn money or just be a part of something that where they're contributing to it. It seems like that is the differentiating factor.

• 2:00:40Speaker 01

  Interesting. Yeah. No, I mean, that's gonna be a bit, my kids are gonna be working. We, you know, in the summer, we live in Massachusetts and in the summer town and they're gonna be, they're gonna be scooping ice cream when they're 14. Damn the child labor laws.

• 2:00:53Graham Stephan?

  Five bucks an hour plus tip.

• 2:00:56Speaker 01

  If they're lucky.

• 2:00:56Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:57Speaker 01

  Uh, but no, that, that scares me a lot.

• 2:00:58Graham Stephan?

  Interesting. And what about the secrets to having just a longstanding marriage and a, and a happy relationship?

• 2:01:04Speaker 01

  I've been married now for, uh, for only seven years, but I've been with my wife for a long time of 15 years. I don't know. We're, we're, we're great together. We're, she, great communication and we're both, uh, positive people. And, um, I can't imagine being with anyone else.

• 2:01:19Graham Stephan?

  How did, how did you know she was the one?

• 2:01:21Speaker 01

  Uh, I don't know. I, uh, it just. It developed very gradually, actually. Some people are like, I saw her and three weeks later, we were engaged and it took me like six years, but.

• 2:01:32Jack Selby?

  Did you have pressure from like family and like, come on, are you gonna do it?

• 2:01:34Speaker 01

  You know, it's interesting. When we got together, we lived in the South. I went to Emory and it was in Atlanta. And everybody's like, when are you, like right out of college? People are like, when are you gonna propose? And it's like, I don't know, what are you? And then we lived in the North and we never got that question. Like people, we lived in Philly and people went their whole lives without getting married, you know? And then, but then we eventually did.

• 2:01:51Jack Selby?

  How did you guys meet?

• 2:01:52Speaker 01

  Uh, in college. We were, I was RA, I was my wife's RA, believe it or not.

• 2:01:57Jack Selby?

  Were you lenient?

• 2:01:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was the cool RA.

• 2:02:00Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:01Speaker 01

  I really, the only reason I became an RA was because I wanted a single room that was on campus. I didn't want to have to commute from some off-campus apartment, but I didn't want to share a room. And so all the on-campus rooms were like doubles or triples. And so I was like, well, I can be an RA, so I did.

• 2:02:16Jack Selby?

  And so what was the pickup line for Jack? Like what line did you use?

• 2:02:21Speaker 01

  Is Jack looking?

• 2:02:22Jack Selby?

  Jack is looking.

• 2:02:24Speaker 01

  Uh, I don't, hey, I'm your RA. Nice to meet you. I don't know. It didn't, it didn't happen that way.

• 2:02:28Jack Selby?

  That's smooth.

• 2:02:29Speaker 01

  What do you do, Jack? You go out, you think, you try it. You on the apps?

• 2:02:33Jack Selby?

  Uh.

• 2:02:36Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I am, but I don't like, I don't spend a lot of time on them anymore. There is a while.

• 2:02:43Speaker 01

  How old are you?

• 2:02:43Jack Selby?

  He was paying, he was paying someone to, right? To go through the app.

• 2:02:46Speaker 01

  I was never paying anybody to go through the app for me, man. He's just making things up.

• 2:02:50Jack Selby?

  You should have been.

• 2:02:51Speaker 01

  Uh, 26.

• 2:02:52Jack Selby?

  So, so you're on the apps and.

• 2:02:54Speaker 01

  Sometimes.

• 2:02:54Jack Selby?

  But it's hard to do it all.

• 2:02:57Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know. It's just like, I'm always at a conflicting spot of like, okay, I can go and I can try to have, you know, girlfriends and stuff like that and, or like, you know, casually go on dates and stuff like that. Or I can try to settle down and find a wife, but all of that is pretty exhausting. Like any, whatever direction you choose, it's gonna be pretty.

• 2:03:17Jack Selby?

  Right.

• 2:03:17Speaker 01

  You know.

• 2:03:18Jack Selby?

  You're already busy. You've got grand.

• 2:03:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, he wears me out. He's like a relationship of his own. It's like, I really have to curate this.

• 2:03:26Jack Selby?

  But you, you, uh, what are the, what are the ladies like in Las Vegas?

• 2:03:30Speaker 01

  Uh, I mean, I would say that typically not really my, my cup of tea, generally speaking. I mean, you have some transient people that just like come and go. And then a lot of the people that are born in Vegas and they stay in Vegas, you know, what are you doing?

• 2:03:42Jack Selby?

  Right.

• 2:03:44Graham Stephan?

  You get in, you get out.

• 2:03:46Jack Selby?

  The real, I guess, like the needle in the haystack would be someone that, you know, moved to Vegas for tax purposes.

• 2:03:53Speaker 01

  Or for some job relo.

• 2:03:55Jack Selby?

  For some job relocation, you know, and.

• 2:03:58Speaker 01

  It isn't in Vegas.

• 2:04:00Jack Selby?

  I'm gonna say some awful things.

• 2:04:01Speaker 01

  No, you're right, though. I agree. I actually feel similarly about San Diego. Because it's such a party, it's like a place, there's no industry here. And so you're always like, who are these people who are here? I'm always curious what dating is like, because I never did it. And certainly, I never had to like be on the apps and everything. So I'm always like, you know.

• 2:04:19Jack Selby?

  It depends. I mean, like, if, if you're confident in yourself and you feel like you're, you know, you have some sort of marketplace value in the dating scene, then it shouldn't be.

• 2:04:29Speaker 01

  But it's still difficult. It's still exhausting and tiresome to do.

• 2:04:32Jack Selby?

  It's definitely, it's like a muscle. You know what I mean? Like, you have, you can't just like not go on a date for three years and then go out and date. And it's like an amazing date. You definitely have to like get adjusted to talking to people that you're interested in. At least for me, this has been my experience. I won't say this in a dogmatic way for everybody. But absolutely, like, if I don't talk to anybody for a while, I come back like, and I don't even know how to continue a conversation. It's like, I talk for a living, but I can't talk to, you know.

• 2:04:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:04:56Jack Selby?

  Girls, I guess.

• 2:04:56Graham Stephan?

  It's easy to interview. It would be difficult to like spark attraction from like.

• 2:05:00Jack Selby?

  Yeah. So it's a muscle, for sure. And some people are just naturally more attuned to being better at that. And some people are naturally not. It's kind of just like biology.

• 2:05:08Speaker 01

  Do you ever turn on the apps when you're traveling?

• 2:05:10Jack Selby?

  I have before in the past. And in fact, I brought this up to Graham, because I wanted to do it when we were traveling somewhere. And he's like, no, no, you gotta focus, Jackie.

• 2:05:19Jack Selby?

  It's crazy, because he wants me to have a girlfriend. And then next, the week later, he's like, no, no, just go out, have fun, like, you know, be young, like, go do stupid stuff.

• 2:05:26Speaker 01

  As long as it's not inconvenient.

• 2:05:27Jack Selby?

  And then, and then he also will say like, oh, you gotta focus on the business. It's like, he's giving me, you know, very.

• 2:05:33Graham Stephan?

  My line in the sand, focus on the business first.

• 2:05:35Jack Selby?

  Yes, yes. Which is what I, which is what I would prefer to do.

• 2:05:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:05:38Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:39Speaker 01

  Right. But are you worried that the years are gonna go by?

• 2:05:42Jack Selby?

  I am. Yeah. I mean, I just turned 26. And to be honest, I had a little bit, like, on my 26th birthday, I'm thinking to myself, like, well, my brother, you know, he met his girlfriend of 10 years, like, when he was, I don't know, 18, 19. And then my parents, they met in high school. So now I'm thinking to myself like 26, like I'm gonna croak before I

• 2:05:59Speaker 01

  But that's normal now. People in their twenties, that's like normal.

• 2:06:01Jack Selby?

  I know, but then I also like, I really want kids and I think back to what a lot of the guests on our podcast say, which is you have kids early, as early as possible, because your life is just so much better. Once you do have kids, or at least when you can communicate with your kids and they're like receptive to you. Uh, that you want as much of your life as possible in that range, in that state.

• 2:06:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, you wanna be young. 26, though, you're still pretty young.

• 2:06:22Jack Selby?

  Yeah, but I also like, I don't wanna mess up. So I also wanna date the person for a long time. It's like, time is pretty sparse.

• 2:06:27Speaker 01

  And then there's time before you wanna have kids and.

• 2:06:29Jack Selby?

  Yeah. So it's, it's complicated. You know, I'm pretty confident in my ability to figure it out. I have some pretty, actually surprisingly, he is a good mentor as much as I crap I give him. He's, he's, he usually doesn't lead me in the wrong direction. So.

• 2:06:41Speaker 01

  Have you ever said no to one of the parts? Has he ever like introduced you to a partner and you've been like, you gotta, you gotta?

• 2:06:45Jack Selby?

  He, he gives us, he gives us insights, you know?

• 2:06:48Graham Stephan?

  Yes. Yes.

• 2:06:51Jack Selby?

  Sometimes he's like.

• 2:06:52Speaker 01

  That's a tough conversation to have.

• 2:06:53Jack Selby?

  Sometimes he's like, oh, yeah, you know, like this is a.

• 2:06:56Graham Stephan?

  Yes. So I, I do both extremes. There's one where I was like, dude, what are you thinking? Absolutely perfect. And then there's another like, I don't see it. I'm trying to be polite and I not, not.

• 2:07:09Jack Selby?

  But I take no offense. The thing that I, the thing that I absolutely love about Graham, which actually was a big part, and I know this is not like a therapy session, but that a big reason why I, I guess I had a little bit of resentment towards Graham for a long time is because he is the, the most straight shooter of a human I've ever met in my entire life. Like he just gives you uh, his version of the truth. No matter whatever the subject is, like he doesn't sugarcoat things. He doesn't like, you know, worry about your feelings when he's telling you something. And I was always so confused because I'm like, like I would show him an edit I made. He's like, I hate it. And I thought that was a reflection of myself, but it was actually just on the work that I did and I have to create a little bit of a distance there. But, but now I love it because anything I come to him for, he's just like straight up. And now I know I can be the exact same with him. I like that.

• 2:07:54Speaker 01

  I've learned that with the younger folks, you you have to do the sugar coat.

• 2:07:58Jack Selby?

  Absolutely.

• 2:07:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've been taught that. I hate it too.

• 2:08:01Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. What is your biggest insecurity?

• 2:08:03Speaker 01

  Probably my beard. What do you think?

• 2:08:05Jack Selby?

  Your beard?

• 2:08:05Graham Stephan?

  I like it.

• 2:08:06Speaker 01

  I just started growing it like like three weeks ago.

• 2:08:08Graham Stephan?

  I like it.

• 2:08:08Speaker 01

  Five weeks. You like it?

• 2:08:09Jack Selby?

  I I noticed it when I when I saw some content. So I think it's good. If if I were to give you just some straight shooting.

• 2:08:18Speaker 01

  Give me some Graham style.

• 2:08:18Jack Selby?

  Graham advice. Yeah, I would say I would say the way you're shaped. It looks great. It looks good and I like the beard. However, I would say the way you're shaping it, I would probably shape it a little bit differently. It's a little thin right here.

• 2:08:30Speaker 01

  Right. I I agree with that. I gotta take it up.

• 2:08:32Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, I would take it up.

• 2:08:33Speaker 01

  I I don't have a lot of things generally that I'm particularly insecure about. I'm very committed to the stuff that I am committed to. And as a result of that, if people make fun of me, I'm like, all right, let's do it. I don't care.

• 2:08:45Graham Stephan?

  The one thing you could do is turn into like a Jeff Bezos, like get absolutely jacked.

• 2:08:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I probably could. You know, I gotta tell you, that's actually one thing that I do think about a lot. I devoted 12, 13 years of my life to businesses.

• 2:08:58Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:59Speaker 01

  And there were some personal things that definitely and like eating right and getting healthy and stuff definitely uh fell by the wayside. And that's one of my goals now that maybe I'm not, I don't have to be as obsessive. And and I think that happens to, I I've noticed that happens to a lot of people who are in. I'm always very impressed when people are able to both start, grow and succeed in a business and also take amazing care of themselves. I don't know how they do it. I I just was, I was devoted to the business. I would stay up late eating cookies and that was the situation, you know?

• 2:09:29Jack Selby?

  And how are you gonna go about about doing that? Are you gonna get a personal trainer? Are you gonna start researching videos?

• 2:09:34Speaker 01

  I'm gonna start by just eating better.

• 2:09:36Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:36Speaker 01

  Like not a whole pizza for dinner. You know what I mean? A starter.

• 2:09:40Jack Selby?

  That's tough. I mean, that's a hard, that's a that's a pretty lofty goal right there. I don't know.

• 2:09:45Graham Stephan?

  Dad dinner. My dad used to do that, just a pizza, you know? Like the microwaveable ones too.

• 2:09:50Speaker 01

  Right, totally.

• 2:09:51Graham Stephan?

  Take it out of the freezer, put it in the microwave.

• 2:09:53Speaker 01

  Uber Eats has screwed us all. We had to make our no Uber Eats rule in my household because it got out of control.

• 2:09:58Graham Stephan?

  Price wise or just like health wise?

• 2:10:00Speaker 01

  Just like you can have whatever you want and it just comes to you. You don't even have to go out. It just comes to you. That's just, that's dangerous.

• 2:10:10Speaker 01

  But yeah, I do think about it's and it's not just that like I it's not just like my health and my body I you know, there's reading I would love to catch up on there's there's like relationships that I could probably do better in that you know that I think you just have to kind of neglect a little if you if you want to really go hard. But then it's nice to be in a position to not be so neglect.

• 2:10:33Graham Stephan?

  So wouldn't you know when to scale back from all the work because you could if you want to continue pressing forward like continue maximizing like the income side of it.

• 2:10:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's that's the question. I think that's like the question. And every person has to answer it at some point, more or less. You know, when do you stop? And for Bezos, right? It's like, I'm gonna keep going. I got 2 billion. I'm gonna get 4 billion, right? And there are guys like that. I don't consider myself one of them. I think that there's a point where you stop and where you look at your family and you say, I'd rather I'd rather devote time here. Now, I'm not at that point. I still do a lot of work. I don't I don't I'm not as crazy hard grindy as I was. And I think scaling back has made more sense for me, at least in terms of my mental obsessions than just stopping. But I think that like, that's the question. And you know, as I'm sure you're aware, there's

• 2:11:25Speaker 01

  formulas you can do. How much money do I spend? How much money you know, is safe withdrawal rate and all that stuff? There's a literal answer to the question. But some people get enjoy it like I'm astonished by this. But there are people who make 200 million and just where I gotta have 300. It's I don't I think that's a little gross, to be honest, and a little mental disorderly, to be totally frank. But some people really enjoy working. And I enjoy it, too. But I wouldn't if I was at 200, I wouldn't. I'd be good. Get a couple more car. If I had 200 million, I wouldn't be doing this right now. I'll tell you that. They would call me like, nope.

• 2:12:02Graham Stephan?

  It's not worth your time.

• 2:12:03Speaker 01

  Like, nope. Everybody, everyone who would call me.

• 2:12:05Graham Stephan?

  That's kind of like the person who already called you, right? I mean, we have no idea who that who that was.

• 2:12:10Speaker 01

  Builder. Never ends. I'm building something in my house. They're pouring concrete.

• 2:12:14Graham Stephan?

  No, I'm talking about the voicemail.

• 2:12:15Speaker 01

  Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. That guy, that's I've gotten to the position where I could say no to him.

• 2:12:21Graham Stephan?

  I'm just saying, that could be a billionaire who called it.

• 2:12:23Speaker 01

  It could be.

• 2:12:24Graham Stephan?

  Sounded very.

• 2:12:24Speaker 01

  I'm all set.

• 2:12:25Graham Stephan?

  Sounded official to me. Well, what I found honestly that's helped me lose a lot of weight, um, cause I'm down 10 pounds of body fat. Like, and a lot of it was just in my belly and I hated it.

• 2:12:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:36Graham Stephan?

  Uh, there was a video that I did, I, I'll never forget this. It was CNBC came and they set up a camera and you just see my belly hang over.

• 2:12:43Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:12:43Graham Stephan?

  My belt and I hated it.

• 2:12:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:46Graham Stephan?

  And that switched something in me. So I switched to a whole food diet. Uh, so no processed foods, no sugar and drinks. I got rid of coffee creamer, which is a big one, uh, and meal preps.

• 2:12:57Speaker 01

  I just process, process foods in general.

• 2:12:59Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:00Speaker 01

  Beyond just trying to look better or feel like processed foods are kind of sketchy. And I'm, I, that's a, but when you're, that's another thing, when you don't have a lot of time, there's some, some stuff you just have to kind of take, do because that's the, the situation that you're in, you know? And, and, and some of those foods really are not great for you. And we're finding more and more out about that stuff and that, that kind of sketches me out. But sometimes that's the easy thing or the cheap thing or the quick thing.

• 2:13:26Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. The other thing too is sauces. So for me, it would be like sauces and cheeses. So.

• 2:13:32Speaker 01

  Can't stop cheese.

• 2:13:32Graham Stephan?

  Cheeses aren't super bad.

• 2:13:34Speaker 01

  Have you had cheese? You can't stop eating cheese.

• 2:13:37Graham Stephan?

  I prefer no cheese.

• 2:13:38Speaker 01

  You can't, no, you can't. What do you, or like, you get a pizza cheeseless?

• 2:13:41Graham Stephan?

  I just don't eat pizza.

• 2:13:42Jack Selby?

  He doesn't eat pizza.

• 2:13:43Graham Stephan?

  I just don't eat pizza.

• 2:13:43Speaker 01

  I kind of haven't stopped that too.

• 2:13:45Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. But, uh, Chipotle was a good example where I think I'm eating really healthy, but I get like two things, a sour cream on top of it. So it would be really sour cream mixed in with all the other stuff with the cheese on top of it. And I'm like, this is double the calories than just having the food itself without the two.

• 2:14:00Speaker 01

  Right. That's true.

• 2:14:01Graham Stephan?

  So it's like little things.

• 2:14:02Speaker 01

  Taste as good.

• 2:14:03Graham Stephan?

  No, it doesn't, but you get used to it, believe it or not. Like my palate now, I can eat something totally plain and enjoy it.

• 2:14:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:11Graham Stephan?

  It's like you're the dog and it's so excited for just like the same food every day, but it's all they know, really.

• 2:14:16Jack Selby?

  Also, when you eat less, it tends to make you more hungry, which I think also being hungry can be a good thing. Like if you live your life for like five years and you have never been hungry once in those five years.

• 2:14:27Speaker 01

  Right. It's not a good situation.

• 2:14:29Jack Selby?

  No, and I noticed I have better mental acuity when I'm hungry. I noticed that I'm more energized when I'm hungry. Everything for me in terms of productivity is generally better when I'm hungry. Obviously not starving, but like, you know, haven't eaten in a few hours.

• 2:14:41Speaker 01

  For years, up until a couple of years ago, I wouldn't eat until dinner, all day. I'd just go.

• 2:14:46Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:47Speaker 01

  I feel like after I eat, there's like definitely like a kind of

• 2:14:50Graham Stephan?

  Brain fog.

• 2:14:51Jack Selby?

  And things taste better when you're hungry too.

• 2:14:53Graham Stephan?

  So you could eat. I love, I love the one dinner. To me, I love the one dinner because it's like one meal that you get to treat yourself with.

• 2:15:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15:01Graham Stephan?

  And it's the end of the day.

• 2:15:02Speaker 01

  You don't have to be obsessive about calorie if you, if you will, if you're willing to do that. A lot of people can't do that, but I'm, I got no problem with not eating all day.

• 2:15:09Jack Selby?

  You mentioned reading. What's like some of your favorite books?

• 2:15:12Speaker 01

  You know, I'm not a book guy, like books.

• 2:15:14Jack Selby?

  Audiobook?

• 2:15:15Speaker 01

  Books are long. You ever read a book?

• 2:15:18Jack Selby?

  Sometimes.

• 2:15:19Speaker 01

  I love long form journalism. Long form articles are my favorite thing in the whole world. And, uh, I spend, when I have free time, I spend it reading long form, like in the Atlantic and New Yorker and New York Times and Wall Street Journal, like a good two hour read about some obscure subject. I will eat that up. I love it.

• 2:15:41Jack Selby?

  Like what, what obscure subject?

• 2:15:42Speaker 01

  Anything and everything. I, I don't like sports, but I love sports long forms. I'll go for days on like the college football, um, the, the draft thing, what the hell is it called? Um, I have absolutely no qualms. I like, love getting deep into subjects, even if I'm not that into the subject. I also hate reading like car long forms, anything that I actually know, I'd rather, I like, would like to learn something in a long form. Um, and I love, love, love long form journalism. My favorite thing in the whole world.

• 2:16:14Graham Stephan?

  What other interests do you have outside of cars?

• 2:16:17Speaker 01

  Very few.

• 2:16:20Speaker 01

  Uh, I love travel.

• 2:16:21Jack Selby?

  Okay.

• 2:16:22Speaker 01

  I love houses and architecture. I own two old homes that I absolutely am obsessed with. Uh, I love, um, I'm a, I'm a huge vintage home enthusiast.

• 2:16:31Graham Stephan?

  Me too. I like 1920s Craftsman or Spanish.

• 2:16:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. I have a Victorian too, an 1880s Victorian. That's, that's like become.

• 2:16:38Graham Stephan?

  So I wanted to get a Victorian house in Jefferson Park, Los Angeles. They have a lot of Victorian homes. It's so expensive to refurbish those homes to period correct aesthetics.

• 2:16:49Speaker 01

  Lot of wood, lot of paint.

• 2:16:49Graham Stephan?

  Yes.

• 2:16:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:50Graham Stephan?

  But it's very expensive to maintain too.

• 2:16:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I really am obsessed with the houses, um, and just like places and travel in general. Um, everybody says travel, but I'm like really obsessed with travel. And then, uh, I, I have taken up tennis for some reason. I play tennis every day.

• 2:17:07Jack Selby?

  Pickleball?

• 2:17:07Speaker 01

  No, pickleball's for children.

• 2:17:08Jack Selby?

  Don't. We, we, we're, we're having such good banter this whole podcast and then you had a bad mouth pickleball.

• 2:17:15Speaker 01

  Do you play tennis?

• 2:17:16Jack Selby?

  Uh, I have.

• 2:17:17Speaker 01

  Oh, but you play the like lesser.

• 2:17:19Jack Selby?

  Uh, no.

• 2:17:20Speaker 01

  Everybody loves pickleball. Tennis is hard. Singles tennis.

• 2:17:22Jack Selby?

  Have you ever played pickleball?

• 2:17:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, you stand there and you hit the ball and you do it in jeans while you're holding a drink.

• 2:17:27Jack Selby?

  You've never played anyone that's decent in pickleball. That's what, that's what I'll tell you.

• 2:17:30Speaker 01

  Okay, but for tennis, you don't even have to play someone who's decent to get a real workout. You're, that's a, you ever see the size of tennis courts? The size of this room. It's like huge.

• 2:17:37Jack Selby?

  Yeah, but you don't get rallies.

• 2:17:38Speaker 01

  I do.

• 2:17:39Jack Selby?

  All right, we, we, we could go, we could go back and forth.

• 2:17:42Speaker 01

  I rally. If I play someone who's at my skill level or near it, I can rally for a lot of time and it's fun. And I, and you get really tired. I mean, I finish the tennis and I'm like, it's a workout. Play an hour every morning. Pickleball, you play six, seven hours. You're like, huh.

• 2:17:57Jack Selby?

  I, I think he needs a real challenge. I think that, that's what you need.

• 2:18:00Graham Stephan?

  Sipping a drink while you're doing that.

• 2:18:01Speaker 01

  Sipping a drink.

• 2:18:02Graham Stephan?

  Texting in the ones.

• 2:18:03Speaker 01

  Texting. You could death text while you're playing pickleball.

• 2:18:05Jack Selby?

  Lastly, lastly, where would you recommend people travel? What's, what's like your favorite travel destinations? I know you really like.

• 2:18:11Speaker 01

  It depends greatly who people are. I, I find that to be such a huge, like, we, we, we love our Nantucket, but it's not for everybody. I, Lake Como is my favorite place in the whole world in northern Italy, but that also is not for everybody. It's, it's especially if you want to do it right. It's actually kind of rural and there's not a lot much to do. But I don't know. I just, I really think that seeing the world is really important. And I have truly loved and enjoyed getting out there and seeing unusual and different and special places. And so I think just anybody who can get anywhere and do anything. I think that if you're baseline, if you just are American who's never traveled overseas, Italy is the coolest place in the world. It gives you everything. You can still use your English, but it does feel like a different country. And it's kind of an insane place, like you want a foreign country to be, and it's absolutely beautiful.

• 2:18:54Speaker 01

  Italy has it all, but there are so many great places that you can travel to. And I just think that everybody should. I think people would learn more and, and have a, the society would be better if people knew more about each other's cultures. I will never forget when I went to Dubai. And you know, the Muslims and the American conservatives there, they don't really get along that well, right? And I went to Dubai and I will never forget that I land and I'm driving around and what are they, what are they doing in Dubai? They're driving giant pickup trucks, going out into the desert, rolling over sand dunes and shooting guns in the air. And I'm like, you know,

• 2:19:28Speaker 01

  if you guys would just meet, I actually think.

• 2:19:31Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:32Jack Selby?

  Best friends.

• 2:19:33Graham Stephan?

  We have a lot in common here.

• 2:19:34Speaker 01

  It'd be okay. I think everything would be alright here. But I think a lot of people don't want to, you know, that they're, the, the fear of other is a big deal. And so I think travel helps to bridge that gap. And I think it's incredibly important.

• 2:19:46Graham Stephan?

  You know what would do so well for you is traveling, but doing quirks and features of different locations.

• 2:19:51Speaker 01

  It would have. If I was in a position where I was willing to travel at the level that I would have to do to make that many videos. I, I've always felt that travel videos on quirks and features and house tours, if you were to go around the globe.

• 2:20:02Graham Stephan?

  I would love that.

• 2:20:03Speaker 01

  Would kill.

• 2:20:03Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:03Speaker 01

  But I just don't want to put it, I, I'm good.

• 2:20:06Graham Stephan?

  You could.

• 2:20:06Speaker 01

  This is for you.

• 2:20:07Graham Stephan?

  You could create a travel agency around your business of curated things that you could buy into.

• 2:20:13Speaker 01

  You totally could.

• 2:20:14Graham Stephan?

  It would do so well.

• 2:20:15Speaker 01

  Trip?

• 2:20:16Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:16Speaker 01

  No, Jack, this is for you. You run with it.

• 2:20:19Graham Stephan?

  Honestly?

• 2:20:19Speaker 01

  We're giving this to you.

• 2:20:20Graham Stephan?

  Doug, if you, if you created packages of like 10 grand or 20 grand or different levels to it. Where it's like, hey, 10 grand, we're gonna, we're gonna get your hotels, your meals, your travel guides, pick up two and from here.

• 2:20:32Speaker 01

  I'm not starting any other business. You take this. I'm giving, you take it. It's a great idea. I'm not doing it.

• 2:20:38Graham Stephan?

  Think of all the customers.

• 2:20:39Speaker 01

  I'm out.

• 2:20:40Jack Selby?

  You could make more money though.

• 2:20:43Speaker 01

  I'm out. I got a Carrera GT. I'm out.

• 2:20:46Graham Stephan?

  You could get an F40.

• 2:20:47Speaker 01

  I know. I do want an F40, but I don't want it bad enough to have to do the kind of work that is required. That's the thing.

• 2:20:54Graham Stephan?

  You could take your family with you and create a family vlog.

• 2:20:56Speaker 01

  This is for you. You do this. You do this. You are well, you have a great audience of people who have money. You can do this today.

• 2:21:04Graham Stephan?

  I'll pass.

• 2:21:05Speaker 01

  Don't you? I think that we want to do it.

• 2:21:06Graham Stephan?

  But you do it.

• 2:21:07Speaker 01

  No, you do it. Jack should do it. I'm out. I'm never doing anything else ever again. I read my kids bedtime stories. That's my business. We do two or three books, depending on how good they were that day.

• 2:21:20Jack Selby?

  It's a great title. Doug Demuro on quitting.

• 2:21:23Graham Stephan?

  There we go.

• 2:21:23Speaker 01

  I don't, I, I don't want our investors to believe I'm quitting.

• 2:21:27Jack Selby?

  And with that said, you guys, thank you so much for tuning into the podcast. It really means a lot. Thank you for letting us come over here. Use the studio. I mean, this is all of your equipment. We got to travel light, which is so nice.

• 2:21:37Speaker 01

  I'm sure.

• 2:21:38Jack Selby?

  So nice.

• 2:21:38Speaker 01

  Thank you for coming. It was great to have you here.

• 2:21:40Graham Stephan?

  And if you want to sell your enthusiast car, check out Cars and Bids.

• 2:21:44Speaker 01

  Cars and Bids.

• 2:21:46Jack Selby?

  Not sponsored.

• 2:21:47Speaker 01

  No, no. But it's.

• 2:21:49Jack Selby?

  But it's a great website. It's a cool, it's a cool website. Graham checks it all the time. I can, I can attest to that.

• 2:21:53Graham Stephan?

  Honestly, daily. Daily, I check. Go ahead. Yeah, I check, I check the website daily. No joke. And I like to see all the cool cars that come up there and I read the comments.

• 2:22:03Speaker 01

  When are you gonna buy some? When are you gonna sell some?

• 2:22:04Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:05Speaker 01

  You sell Teslas?

• 2:22:06Graham Stephan?

  I was, so I was thinking, no, honestly, I was thinking about selling my Tesla Model 3. But I'm, but I'm looking at the prices and I'm thinking, for me to get a new one, I don't need a new one. I just want more range. That's it. So I got the standard range, uh, 2019.

• 2:22:23Graham Stephan?

  And ideally, I would love to have enough range to drive to Los Angeles without charging. That's it. That's all I want, but I don't need it and I don't really drive to LA. It's maybe a few times a year. So do I want to spend?

• 2:22:35Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:22:35Graham Stephan?

  20 grand more for a few times a year?

• 2:22:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:22:39Graham Stephan?

  Probably not. So that's, that's why I think.

• 2:22:41Speaker 01

  The financial advice.

• 2:22:42Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:42Speaker 01

  Car enthusiast who's running the car auction website?

• 2:22:44Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:46Speaker 01

  Not only do you want that, you want to get a better.

• 2:22:49Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, the one car.

• 2:22:49Speaker 01

  Get a Model X.

• 2:22:50Graham Stephan?

  No, honestly, the one car I'd really want is the, uh, the Plaid.

• 2:22:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:53Graham Stephan?

  It's like a 2021 Plaid.

• 2:22:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:56Graham Stephan?

  For like under 50 with like, you know, mid-range miles.

• 2:23:00Speaker 01

  They're getting there. You want to just flex on people at stoplights? I feel it.

• 2:23:03Graham Stephan?

  That, that's all I want. With the good range, with the 400 mile or the long range Model S.

• 2:23:07Speaker 01

  Which is also really fast.

• 2:23:09Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:09Speaker 01

  Or Lucid Air.

• 2:23:12Graham Stephan?

  Uh, charging.

• 2:23:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, but those are like 500 mile ranges.

• 2:23:16Graham Stephan?

  Just in case.

• 2:23:16Speaker 01

  You could drive the Lucid Air from Vegas to Los Angeles, back, back again to Connecticut. No charging. No, kidding.

• 2:23:24Graham Stephan?

  I don't know. It's just, it's just the idea of not having a charger within like, you know, 50.

• 2:23:29Speaker 01

  Still charge it. You go to Electrify America. They, they got.

• 2:23:31Graham Stephan?

  They're so bad.

• 2:23:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, they got 12 charging stations at Electrify America. One or two of them probably work.

• 2:23:39Graham Stephan?

  I've seen.

• 2:23:40Speaker 01

  We're never gonna get Electrify America to sponsor us now.

• 2:23:43Graham Stephan?

  I've seen some of the, the charging stations that are not Tesla. They're awful. I mean, absolutely horrible.

• 2:23:49Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:23:50Graham Stephan?

  And then the government waste with how much money like they've, they've just spent and subsidized for these things that don't work, that are.

• 2:23:56Speaker 01

  Previous to putting the charging stations and the chargers in my house, I have had to charge publicly sometimes. And I mean, the Electrify America's station near my house, you can get one, two miles of range if you're willing to put in 20, 25 minutes.

• 2:24:10Graham Stephan?

  Bad. Yeah. But you know what? We'll talk. Maybe there's a scenario where my car will be on Cars and Bits. Bring it on. A $78 Tesla Model 3.

• 2:24:20Jack Selby?

  With that said, you guys, thank you so much for watching.

• 2:24:23Graham Stephan?

  Thank you.

• 2:24:23Jack Selby?

  Till next time.

• 2:24:29Speaker 00

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