SYSK's 12 Days of Christmas… Toys: A Partial History of Action Figures

Action figures have a long and glorious history. From GI Joes to Star Wars figures, these offshoots of dolls came along at just the right time to capture the hearts and minds of children everywhere. Learn all about the partial history of action figures right here. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Josh Clark?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota Fordability, and it starts with a great deal on an off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest-lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. And they're built on a reputation for quality and reliability, which is why Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Granger knows, if you're a procurement manager at an industrial manufacturing facility, you're balancing inventory and budget while sourcing critical supplies across the operation. Too much inventory? Costs climb. Too little? Production slows. Granger's $2 billion in on-hand inventory helps you get what you need, when you need it, so you can help keep budgets balanced and lines moving. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.

• 1:06Speaker 03

  Howdy, everybody. I hope everyone is having a loving and warm December with your friends and family. I'm here to introduce a classic episode for our 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist. And this one's pretty good, if I remember correctly. It is a partial history of action figures. We all love action figures, and if I'm not mistaken, we might argue, once again, about the superiority of the tall, full-size G.I. Joes that I grew up with, the little action figures that Josh grew up with. Let us know who's right. Thanks, everybody. Hope you love it.

• 1:42Speaker 04

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com.

• 1:52Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W., Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's right there to my immediate right. And that makes this Stuff You Should Know the podcast. The Podcast.

• 2:05Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:06Josh Clark?

  I'm excited about this particular podcast Chuck.

• 2:09Speaker 03

  Oh yeah?

• 2:09Josh Clark?

  Put together, this episode, I should say.

• 2:11Speaker 03

  Well, do you want to go ahead and announce the title for the people that maybe didn't read it?

• 2:17Josh Clark?

  It is, uh, well, you, you're gonna select the title. What's the title?

• 2:21Speaker 03

  Oh geez, I don't know. Um, "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About, Actually, Some Stuff About Action Figures That You May Already Know."

• 2:32Speaker 03

  And some stuff that may delight you.

• 2:34Josh Clark?

  That's a working title, huh?

• 2:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but we're talking about action figures. That's the point of, of what I think that exercise just was.

• 2:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was gonna say, "Everything You Wanted to Know," but this, I mean, we could do, I'm sure there are entire podcasts on action figures.

• 2:50Josh Clark?

  For sure. Yeah, and if you do, if you have a podcast on action figures, write in, let us know. We'll, we'll tweet it out for the people whose boat this floated.

• 2:58Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:59Josh Clark?

  This, this one definitely follows in the vein of, um, the Barbie episode, which I have to say is one of my perennial favorites. I love the Barbie episode.

• 3:09Speaker 03

  Oh yeah?

• 3:09Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and Barbie actually makes an appearance in this one.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  Do you like to play with dolls?

• 3:14Josh Clark?

  Uh, I like to play with action figures. I play with Barbies. I had older sisters, so like I was, I played with Barbies whether I wanted to or not, so I made the most of it.

• 3:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't, I don't remember my sister having Barbies, but surely she did, right?

• 3:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah, if she was a girl in America from the 60s on, yeah, she had a Barbie.

• 3:34Speaker 03

  Oh, no, my sister grew up in the Soviet Union.

• 3:36Josh Clark?

  Oh, well, there you go. She had, um, a Martina.

• 3:41Speaker 03

  There probably was a Martina.

• 3:43Josh Clark?

  But I mean, that was a pretty good episode, and this one's kind of similar. It's, it's got it all. And like I said, Barbie kind of pops up in the beginning. She actually inspired action figures.

• 3:55Josh Clark?

  Like basically directly, when Mattel, I think it was Ruth Handler who invented the Barbie doll, right?

• 4:02Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 4:03Josh Clark?

  And when she, when she and Mattel released it, it was just a huge, enormous hit. And one of the big reasons Barbie was number one, such a hit, and number two, so appealing to toy companies, was that when you bought a Barbie, your buying experience wasn't over. There were always like more clothes and shoes and like my sister had the pool that you could hang out with and it had like a shower that actually worked. There's just a ton of extra stuff to buy. And so when you bought a Barbie, you wanted all the other stuff too. And toy companies wanted to figure out how to do that with boys toys. But they just couldn't quite figure it out because no one had ever come up with a doll for boys.

• 4:44Josh Clark?

  And that's kind of what it required is coming up with a doll for boys and knowing to crack that nut. But Barbie made the whole thing all the more appealing, I guess.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, finally, this dude named Stan Weston, who actually knew Miss Handler. And he was in the toy racket and I guess I shouldn't call it a racket.

• 5:07Josh Clark?

  It's a bit of a racket.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  It's a bit of a racket. So he said, like you were talking about, like, you know, there's tons of money to be made here. He was a military history buff. And so he had this, you know, the light bulb went off over his head. And he says, what if we could come up with a soldier doll or perhaps even a series of soldier dolls? And maybe not call them dolls.

• 5:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that was a big one.

• 5:30Speaker 03

  He didn't, he didn't come up with the name. To be fair, his boss at Hasbro, VP Don Levine or Levine. In 1963, he was pitched this idea and he went nuts over it. And he's the one that said, maybe we should call them action figures.

• 5:47Josh Clark?

  Right. Yeah. Stan Weston approached, yeah, Don Levine at like that toy fair and said, I got a great idea. And apparently he gave him a hundred thousand dollars just for the idea. And then he, since he worked with Hasbro, he's like, guys, I've got a good idea here.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  So that roughly translates into about $782,000.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  In today money, which is good dough for an idea, but of course, anytime you're the schmuck that comes up with the idea that you sell for even 782 grand and it goes on to be like hundreds of millions of dollar business, you probably always kind of feel like, ah, I got taken for a ride.

• 6:29Josh Clark?

  A little bit. I'm sure Stan Westen was like, I'll have millions of good ideas like these that I can sell for 780,000 dollars apiece, I'm sure.

• 6:38Speaker 03

  He may have.

• 6:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I don't know. It's certainly not one like G.I. Joe, right?

• 6:43Speaker 03

  Well, that's what we've been talking about. We've talked about G.I. Joe a lot on the show, so it feels appropriate that we sort of go down that rabbit hole if we're going to be talking about action figures.

• 6:54Josh Clark?

  Well, so, well, yeah, because G.I. Joe is the one that started, literally started the action figure craze. Every action figure that's out there from like, um, Action Jesus to, um, to the Marvel superhero action figures. Every action figure came from G.I. Joe. And if you want to get feminist about it, every action figure, including G.I. Joe, ultimately came from Barbie.

• 7:19Speaker 03

  That's a good way to look at it. So, uh, all right, here's the deal that I never knew. G.I. Joe debuted in 1964 before Christmas. It's almost as if they had planned that. Uh, the original, I knew all this stuff. The original was 12 inches and had 21 moving parts. And the thing I did not know, uh, was that G.I. Joe was the collective name of all four of these armed forces dolls.

• 7:48Josh Clark?

  You didn't know that?

• 7:49Speaker 03

  I thought the guy was Joe.

• 7:50Josh Clark?

  No, the, the, for my era, the guy, the main guy was Duke. And for your era, the main guy was Rocky.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  Well, depends on which one you had.

• 8:00Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 8:01Speaker 03

  So there was, there was Rocky was the Army and the Marines. Skip, Skip was the Navy guy and Ace was the Air Force guy, the fighter pilot.

• 8:13Josh Clark?

  Right, so they, they ran out of names after name three.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  They ran out?

• 8:18Josh Clark?

  And circled back, circled back to Rocky.

• 8:20Speaker 03

  They ran out of names and they all were identical, except for their clothing.

• 8:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 8:24Speaker 03

  As far as I know, right?

• 8:26Josh Clark?

  Didn't, wasn't their head different?

• 8:29Speaker 03

  Oh, I don't know.

• 8:29Josh Clark?

  Or was it the same, was it the same face for each one? It was literally just their clothes were different.

• 8:34Speaker 03

  You know, I don't know. I'm going from my own memory, which is that they were all the same dude and they were all Franco Harris.

• 8:41Josh Clark?

  Well, no, well, they came up with an African American one at one point in like the late sixties, I think.

• 8:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, they changed with the times, but to my recollection, those original dudes, and maybe I got in on the second wave. Maybe the original sixties ones were different. But I only knew Franco Harris.

• 8:59Josh Clark?

  I got you.

• 9:00Speaker 03

  So maybe I just had Rocky.

• 9:02Josh Clark?

  Maybe so. Rocky or Rocky, which one?

• 9:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had Rocky. Not Rocky.

• 9:09Josh Clark?

  So, um, they, they come out with this, this toy and it's the first, one of the big differences with G.I. Joe. Cause there were toy soldiers before, but did you ever have those like little plastic ones, the little plastic green men? You dump them out of the bucket and one had a bazooka and he was always the best one.

• 9:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:27Josh Clark?

  And, but, but they were on like little molded plastic stands and you couldn't do anything with them except slide them around or whatever. Those have been around forever.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  Well, you could do a lot more with them if you had imagination.

• 9:39Josh Clark?

  And a lighter and a can of hairspray.

• 9:42Speaker 03

  Actually, I was delighted, it was Toy Story, right? Where they had those, those guys come to life?

• 9:47Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 9:48Speaker 03

  Uh, that was like really, really cool to me when I saw that on screen. Uh, these, cause you, you know, like you said, you could never move them. So to see those little dudes actually come to life was pretty, pretty awesome.

• 9:59Josh Clark?

  You were like, oh, I've been dreaming of this day.

• 10:03Speaker 03

  I kinda was.

• 10:04Josh Clark?

  Thank you, DreamWorks.

• 10:06Speaker 03

  Oh, that's where they got the name.

• 10:08Josh Clark?

  Was it DreamWorks or was that Pixar? It was Pixar, right?

• 10:12Speaker 03

  Probably.

• 10:12Josh Clark?

  I got it wrong.

• 10:13Speaker 03

  That's all right.

• 10:14Josh Clark?

  It's a hundred percent Pixar. We're still gonna get emails anyway, even though we just corrected.

• 10:19Speaker 03

  They're, they're all working dreams.

• 10:21Josh Clark?

  They are.

• 10:22Speaker 03

  So, um, I read this great article called, uh, oh geez, what was it called? Uh, now you know the history of G.I. Joe and knowing it is half the battle from Smithsonian.com.

• 10:34Josh Clark?

  Written by Jimmy Stamp.

• 10:36Speaker 03

  Was that his name?

• 10:36Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:37Speaker 03

  The Stamper?

• 10:38Josh Clark?

  The Stamster.

• 10:40Speaker 03

  So, um, I didn't realize this, but, uh, you can't, you can't copyright a, a, a figure, like a human figure. So that was sort of an issue when people started to do knockoffs of G.I. Joe. But apparently, early on in the process, G.I. Joe was well-known for that scar on his face. And I didn't even know this, he had an inverted thumbnail. And both of these were because of, uh, errors in production. But those flaws were what allowed them to go after people, uh, for copyright infringement.

• 11:12Josh Clark?

  That's right.

• 11:13Speaker 03

  That's crazy.

• 11:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it is. Um, and yeah, I guess they were, they were natural, like they didn't plan them or anything like that, but they just were happy accidents, I guess.

• 11:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:24Josh Clark?

  Um, and actually, I read also elsewhere, Chuck, that, um, G.I. Joe was so successful, as we'll see, that by the seventies, um, there were so many knockoffs that Hasbro released its own line of knockoffs of cheaply-made G.I. Joes to compete with the knockoffs.

• 11:40Speaker 03

  What?

• 11:40Josh Clark?

  And dilute their market share. Yeah, it was called Defenders. And there were just these really cheaply-made versions of the big G.I. Joes.

• 11:48Speaker 03

  Well, it was a huge hit, though. Um, it says here that they accounted for almost 66% of Hasbro's profits in 1964.

• 11:57Josh Clark?

  That's insane.

• 11:58Speaker 03

  That is nuts.

• 11:59Josh Clark?

  And that was the year it came out, right?

• 12:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, right out of the gate, it was a really big deal.

• 12:04Josh Clark?

  And, uh, again, one of the reasons why is because you had toy soldiers before, but this guy could move. He had, I think, like 20, 28 or 29 moving parts. Or different parts and he was articulated so he could lift up his hand and karate chop you. Although he didn't get the Kung Fu grip until the mid 70s.

• 12:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's where I came in.

• 12:24Josh Clark?

  Okay, so he had Kung Fu grip when you knew G.I. Joe?

• 12:28Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, very much.

• 12:30Josh Clark?

  Gotcha.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  It was so Kung Fu.

• 12:32Josh Clark?

  Right, but he still looked like Franco Harris.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  But he still looked like Franco Harris, yes.

• 12:36Josh Clark?

  And then the other big innovation was the, was not an innovation at all. It was following the Barbie model, but for boys it was. It was that this doll, which no one called a doll. In fact, I believe Hasbro wouldn't do business with you if you were going to call it a doll as a retailer. They would just be like, well, you don't get any G.I. Joes. This is an action figure.

• 12:58Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 12:58Josh Clark?

  But on the package itself, and I don't know if you remember this or not, I don't because I wasn't born yet. But there were pictures of the other dudes and the other outfits you could get. So when you bought one G.I. Joe, you as a kid were made immediately aware, whoa, whoa, whoa. There's other G.I. Joes out there and I want to collect them all. Some little kid came up with that, collect them all phrase, just in his little brain.

• 13:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, some little kid named middle age marketing executive.

• 13:28Josh Clark?

  Don Levine.

• 13:29Speaker 03

  So not only that, but they had, you know, like Barbie, they had all manner of other things that you could collect and buy. I had the, I had the jet pack, which you would attach to a string to simulate jet packing and send flying like between two trees.

• 13:46Josh Clark?

  Gotcha.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  And then I had the submarine. It was like a Sea Wolf. It was really cool.

• 13:54Josh Clark?

  How big was the submarine if you're playing with 12 inch G.I. Joes?

• 13:58Speaker 03

  It was, um.

• 13:59Josh Clark?

  It'd take up the size of like the family room?

• 14:02Speaker 03

  Well, this is not going to mean anything to anyone at home, but it's about the size of this lamp on our desk.

• 14:07Josh Clark?

  Oh, so it was like a one man sub?

• 14:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel like it was, I can't remember exactly. I feel, I feel like it was about the size of a.

• 14:16Speaker 03

  Little smaller than a bowling ball.

• 14:17Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  How's that?

• 14:19Josh Clark?

  Like a child's bowling ball.

• 14:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz he had to sit in it, you're right, and he was a big dude, even though you would, you know, in a seated position, he was smaller. Uh, and then I had the, uh, six-wheel or eight-wheel, I can't remember, uh, all-terrain vehicle.

• 14:33Josh Clark?

  Well, that's nice.

• 14:34Speaker 03

  And that's about all that we were, uh, that's about all we could afford.

• 14:38Josh Clark?

  That's, but that was probably quite an outlay from your parents.

• 14:41Speaker 03

  No, it was great. And that was over time, you know?

• 14:43Josh Clark?

  Right, several Christmases, right?

• 14:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, and this was, like I said, I came in on the seventies, but, um, in the sixties, they actually, uh, G.I. Joe did not do very well because of the Vietnam War.

• 14:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 14:55Speaker 03

  Um, and it was actually, kinda, I think it was actually, went away from production for a while.

• 15:02Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it did, they just, they basically retired him. I think the Vietnam War, uh, hurt sales, so they took him out a little bit, and then they re-released him again, um, and kinda rebranded him, I think, too, as rather, rather than a soldier, they rebranded him as an adventurer, right?

• 15:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally.

• 15:20Josh Clark?

  So, this machete's not for cutting off the hands of a, a Sherpa who leads us into danger, it's for, um, you know, cutting through vegetation and on a jungle adventure to save Sherpas, who are, for some reason, live in the jungle now.

• 15:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they, they, like you said, they called him adventurer, or the naval officer was, uh, called an aquanaut, and I very much remember that being the deal, like, I didn't think of him as a soldier, I thought of him as, you know, well, I thought his name was Joe, cuz I guess it was a dumb little kid, but I guess Rocky, the G.I. Joe Adventure Guy.

• 15:57Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 15:59Speaker 03

  Slash Franco Harris.

• 16:00Josh Clark?

  Right, and G.I. Joe, actually, it was taken from a 1945 movie called The Story of G.I. Joe.

• 16:08Josh Clark?

  That's where that came from.

• 16:09Speaker 03

  Did you ever see that?

• 16:10Josh Clark?

  No, have you?

• 16:13Speaker 03

  No.

• 16:14Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay.

• 16:14Speaker 03

  I was just curious.

• 16:16Josh Clark?

  So Chuck, G.I. Joe is, he starts to do kind of poorly because of Vietnam. They take him out, they re-release him. And he doesn't do very well when they bring him back out, even though he's an adventurer, right? So G.I. Joe left. They stopped making G.I. Joes for a while and it created, it left this big vacuum that was just waiting to be filled. And it was filled by a little company named Migo. And we'll talk about Migo after this break. How about that?

• 16:44Speaker 03

  Sounds good.

• 16:56Speaker 05

  Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with IBM's Ana Paula Assis about what digital sovereignty actually means in the age of AI.

• 17:07Speaker 06

  AI now moves from somebody operating a system to the technology actually making decisions. So you have to have a much better visibility of what AI is touching, data it is accessing, and where.

• 17:23Speaker 05

  Hear the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts.

• 17:27Speaker 07

  This is Stugatz from Stugatz and Company Live. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla Sedan with the latest features N-Tec or Test Drive, a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops, while Toyota's legendary resale value means you can get more at trade-in. Get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 18:15Speaker 03

  All right, is it Migo or Mego? I've been saying Mego in my head just because I'm a dumb American.

• 18:20Josh Clark?

  No, well, I think Mego is probably how they say it in the UK.

• 18:24Speaker 03

  Oh, was that where it came from?

• 18:26Josh Clark?

  No, they're American. I say Migo. To be honest, I have no idea. I'm sure there is a right way that Tommy Migo would love to tell you about, but...

• 18:35Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 18:36Josh Clark?

  Or Tommy Mago. Uh, but yeah, I've said, I've said Migo in my head, but I don't know which one's correct, to tell you the truth.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  All right, well, we'll just proceed thusly. I'll say Mago, you say Migo.

• 18:49Josh Clark?

  Let's just call the whole thing off.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  So, go ahead with Migo.

• 18:53Josh Clark?

  So, so, um, G.I. Joe's gone. But again, this was, you said it accounted for like 66% of Hasbro's sales just in the first year. And he was a hit year after year after year for many years, right? Um, and even when they brought him back, sales were terrible compared to the initial stuff, but they were still making money off of him, right? Um, so this first, the world's first action figure made a huge impact. And when the world's first action figure wasn't around anymore, well, there was a void that was to be filled. And this company called Migo decided in, I think, 1971 or 1972, that a pretty good place to start would be releasing a line of action figures that were based on superheroes.

• 19:39Josh Clark?

  And they released a, um, a line of superheroes called the World's Greatest Superheroes Action Figures. And I think 1972, and it was a pretty big hit, like, right off the bat.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, and what they did was, uh, they were super smart and kinda had a lot of vision. And said, I think where it's at is not necessarily creating characters from whole cloth that kids don't know of, but licensing very famous characters and selling them. So they got ahold of licenses for, uh, Spider-Man and the Hulk and Batman and Wonder Woman and Iron Man and Captain America.

• 20:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and not just, yeah, if you'll notice, it's DC and Marvel characters in the same line. Like, that's unheard of today.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  They did not discriminate back then.

• 20:24Josh Clark?

  No, they did.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  It was a wonderful time. Uh, and not only that, but they said... You know, we're making money hand over fist selling these action figures. What if, do you think kids would actually buy villains like the Joker? And do you think they would buy side characters like Robin and Batgirl? And other villains like the Riddler and things like the Batmobile and the Batcave playset? And before you knew it, they were pumping out things like Bruce Wayne's foundation building.

• 20:55Josh Clark?

  I know that was a real thing.

• 20:57Speaker 03

  Or what was the other weird one, the store?

• 21:00Josh Clark?

  Oh, they had, they had an exclusive with the Montgomery Ward store. So it wasn't like, it wasn't a store, but at the, at Montgomery Ward only.

• 21:09Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 21:10Josh Clark?

  You could buy the non superhero versions of superheroes like Peter Parker and Bruce Wayne. Which is like, alright, you, you sit there in your cubicle and that's what you do while the rest of us are saving the world. That's what you do with that action figure.

• 21:26Speaker 03

  Alright, that makes much more sense. I thought they had a Montgomery Ward playset.

• 21:30Josh Clark?

  That's what I thought at first too.

• 21:32Speaker 03

  Bruce Wayne worked there or something, which of course he didn't even work. I don't know what I'm thinking.

• 21:36Josh Clark?

  No, he just gave orders.

• 21:38Speaker 03

  They were making tons and tons of money. Um, in 1973, they moved into movies with their Planet of the Apes line, which was uh, some plastic primates and then the astronaut that was taller and that was a huge hit.

• 21:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and the other thing about Mego too, um, was that all action figures had been like 12 inch tall, 12 inches tall up to that point. And Mego's line was eight inches. So action figures are starting to shrink a little bit now.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  That's right. Uh, and the one, uh, the one I actually had, even though I have no idea why, I had the Star Trek, um, Enterprise Bridge.

• 22:18Josh Clark?

  Oh yeah.

• 22:18Speaker 03

  And then I guess, I mean, I know I had Spock and Kirk and a couple of others, but you know, I'm well-known to not have ever seen any Star Trek at all, except for maybe one movie or something. So I have no idea why I got that.

• 22:35Josh Clark?

  Oh, I mean, if it was a cool action figure, like I had some weird, I had a weird wizard action figure when I was a kid.

• 22:43Speaker 03

  But you're into weird wizards, you still are.

• 22:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah, well, I am now as a grown up. I wasn't as a kid. I was like, what is this thing?

• 22:51Speaker 03

  Gotcha.

• 22:52Josh Clark?

  Some weird wizard.

• 22:53Speaker 03

  Well, I don't know why I had it, but the Star Trek, their collection, that was another big hit. So they were just, they literally kind of, I mean, G.I. Joe and Barbie, of course, kind of spawned this thing, but it seems like Mego really took it to another level.

• 23:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah. They kind of, they kind of, yeah, action figures were cool and G.I. Joe had really started something, but Mego, yeah, they, they just, they established it forever, permanently. And they also showed other companies too, like, hey, man, go get yourself a license and stick to it. Like, get creative. Like, with the Star Trek license that they had, clearly, the toy designers had actually watched Star Trek episodes because one of the playsets was from, one of the sets from an episode of Star Trek, the Apple episode. Like, you don't necessarily see that, or you didn't see that before with action

• 23:52Josh Clark?

  figures. It was more like, hey, you, you, you know this guy, just buy him. This was like, you're into Star Trek and so are we, and here is some awesome playsets based on your love of Star Trek. So Mego definitely broke the mold in that, in that sense as well. But they also, like, they were it for action figures. Like, nobody could compete with Mego. They would buy stuff from Japan and then turn them into new stuff here. There was just no competing with Mego in the US, even though a lot of people were. But they, they also dropped the ball in the most spectacular fashion anyone could ever drop the ball in the action figure world.

• 24:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:32Josh Clark?

  Like, they, it's, it's almost... It's almost an elegant end of the story because it literally makes you cringe when you read it. And there's two different versions, but both of them are like, oh, man.

• 24:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think there's really only one version. I literally could not find a single source other than this one guy's blog who claimed the other version. But what we're talking about, and if you know action figures, you probably see this coming. They declined the Star Wars brand and allowed Kenner to pick it up.

• 25:01Josh Clark?

  Yes. So how, though? Which story is true?

• 25:04Speaker 03

  Well, the story that I think is true is that they didn't want to invest. And they said that, you know, we're not going to throw our money at every little thing that comes along. We want to be a little more discerning.

• 25:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that one hurts. That hurts more than the other story. The other version was that, like, the people who could sign the contracts were out of town when George Lucas came by to offer them the franchise. And now that I'm saying it out loud, like, yes, that's a ridiculously dumb story.

• 25:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:31Josh Clark?

  Them actually turning down the Star Wars line is even better. It's even sweeter, like, man, what were you guys thinking? But, I mean, there's lots of stories like that, just somebody lacking foresight.

• 25:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, the other story is completed by the supposedly they weren't there. So Lucas went to another, went to Kenner, who was in the same building in New York. And I guess the people that could sign their name were there.

• 25:57Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 25:58Speaker 03

  But I can't find that anywhere else, except for this one blog where this guy says it's true. But I would love to hear from someone if they have inside, like, verifiable knowledge of that.

• 26:08Josh Clark?

  Oh, for sure. George Lucas, just let us know.

• 26:11Speaker 03

  And I mean verifiable, not, yeah, that's what I heard.

• 26:15Josh Clark?

  I read the same blog.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 26:17Josh Clark?

  I knew your nerd voice is going to come up in this episode.

• 26:20Speaker 03

  Well, sure, of course.

• 26:22Josh Clark?

  So if you have a love of Mego, or you just want to know what we're talking about also, go check out the Mego Museum online, M-E-G-O Museum. And it's just basically like this wonderful online museum dedicated to everything that Mego ever put out. It's pretty cool. I wasn't even around when these things came out, and they still somehow make me nostalgic, you know?

• 26:44Speaker 03

  Exactly. All right, so let's jump back a little bit to 1966. And We're gonna explain how they went from eight inches, even though they were still making the eight inchers after 66, how they eventually got down to the three and three quarters inch. G.I. Joe was licensing their stuff out to other countries, all over the place. There was a UK company who released it under the name Action Man, and eventually they licensed it to Japan, to a company called Takara. They went on to create some action figures based on G.I. Joe, and then, due to the oil crisis in the early 70s, they started developing smaller versions. So, at three and three quarters inches, they developed Microman,

• 27:29Speaker 03

  released him in 1974, and that kind of led to this new thing, which was smaller dudes. And kids didn't care.

• 27:40Josh Clark?

  No, no. Not only did we not care, so now we're starting to enter my wheelhouse. Not only did we not care, these smaller ones are vastly superior to the older ones.

• 27:50Speaker 03

  Oh, you think?

• 27:51Josh Clark?

  Yeah. So, we agree on a lot of stuff, but I would say this is the one thing that divides us more frequently than anything else, is whether the original big G.I. Joes or the second wave small G.I. Joes are better.

• 28:05Speaker 03

  All right, let me ask you, sir. Have you ever held in your hands and played with a 12-inch G.I. Joe with a Kung-Fu grip?

• 28:11Josh Clark?

  I would not touch one.

• 28:14Speaker 03

  So, you can't even say then?

• 28:16Josh Clark?

  Have you played with the small one?

• 28:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, man, I had tons of small action figures.

• 28:21Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay, all right. Oh, did you have the Star Wars stuff?

• 28:23Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:24Josh Clark?

  So, you think the big one's superior?

• 28:26Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, it's 12 inches. It articulates 19 different ways.

• 28:30Josh Clark?

  Ew! I like the small ones, I always will. Even after playing with the big one, which I have not and never will, I just know that the small one is vastly superior. I don't know if it's because I am nostalgic for the small ones, and the old ones seem weird and dusty and moldy or something like that, but...

• 28:52Josh Clark?

  The small ones seemed better to me.

• 28:54Speaker 03

  Alright.

• 28:55Josh Clark?

  At the very least, you have to, you have to admit, the wave of G.I. Joes that were released when I started playing with them, just the line itself was better, regardless of the size of them, right?

• 29:07Speaker 03

  Well, let's go ahead and talk about that. Because G.I. Joe changed a lot, um, once it became a cartoon. And we're going to talk about some really cool political stuff that had no idea went into this. But, um, G.I. Joe became a cartoon series. This is in the early eighties, so this is when I had kind of quit playing with action figures for the most part.

• 29:28Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 29:29Speaker 03

  Cause eighty-three, eighty-four, I was like thirteen and, you know, I was moving on to, you know.

• 29:35Josh Clark?

  Check out this mustache.

• 29:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was, I was skateboarding by that point and I thought I was like a super cool skateboarder.

• 29:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  Uh, maybe I still played a little bit. So G.I.

• 29:45Josh Clark?

  Only your neighborhood best friend knew about it, your school friends didn't.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Exactly. Uh, so G.I. Joe was a cartoon, uh, then they, for the first time, basically it became a, a commando team, an anti-terrorist commando team, that had all kinds of characters and they had finally had a common enemy, which was of course Cobra.

• 30:05Josh Clark?

  Yes, led by Cobra Commander.

• 30:07Speaker 03

  And this was your, right in your wheelhouse, correct?

• 30:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so in nineteen eighty-three, I was like seven, so yeah, this was, I was really just primed and ready. I would just, "Yeah, now let's go, Joe." And plus also, the other thing too, that I had, that you didn't have, was the cartoon that not only like blew up the backstories, cause each, this new wave of G.I. Joe when they released it, they, each character now had its own name and it wasn't Rocky or Rocky. It was things like, um, Duke, or Shipwreck, or Blowtorch, or Barbecue,

• 30:49Josh Clark?

  or Dusty, um, and then the bad guys had their own, their own names too, like Cobra Commander, Serpentor, Tomax, or Zemot, um, or, uh, the whole, the whole gang, right?

• 31:02Speaker 03

  Toche's? Who was that?

• 31:03Josh Clark?

  Tomax and Zemot, they were evil twins who were, they were basically, they were like, um, if, if Cobra Commander had hired, uh, Patrick Bateman, and then cloned him, a mere version of him, it would be Tomax and Zemot.

• 31:19Speaker 03

  Interesting. I know none of this stuff.

• 31:23Josh Clark?

  Right, right. Okay, so I do because I grew up with it.

• 31:25Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah?

• 31:26Josh Clark?

  But I also had it pounded into my head every day after school, watching the G.I. Joe cartoon. And that was the huge innovation that really just created this, uh, this other world for kids like me to just lose yourself in with the action figures. Cause now, you didn't even need to use your imagination. You could just be like, "Oh, I saw this on the G.I. Joe cartoon today, so let's act that out."

• 31:51Speaker 03

  Right. And none of this would have ever happened had it not been for Ronald Reagan.

• 31:55Josh Clark?

  That's right.

• 31:56Speaker 03

  And that sounds weird, uh, but here's the story. So, in the late seventies, there was a lot of concern about kids, uh, and advertising, about advertising to children. So, the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, uh, got a task force together. And they said, "Should we ban or regulate this marketing to children?" Uh, they put together, uh, 6,000 pages of testimony from 60... Oh, the oral testimony, 60,000 pages of expert testimony, uh, from all these experts on child psychology and health and nutrition. Cause it had to do with, you know, food and sugary candies and stuff like that, too. And the conclusion, across the board, was that young children cannot...

• 32:40Speaker 03

  They are cognitively unable to understand the, the intent of selling ads. They can't distinguish that from reality.

• 32:48Josh Clark?

  Right. Like, if you dress up a cartoon as an ad, the kid is... He just thinks it's a cartoon, or she does.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  Exactly. Or if the ad is a cartoon...

• 32:58Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 32:58Speaker 03

  Rather than the kid doesn't know. They just think, "I'm still watching cartoons on my TV."

• 33:04Josh Clark?

  My brain hasn't made that switch, but man, could I go for some Smurf cereal.

• 33:07Speaker 03

  Exactly. So, it was a big deal at the time. So, there were all these recommendations, basically, on how to regulate and restrict advertising that were, that they basically said was unfair and deceptive to kids. Uh, for older kids, they said, "They can tell the difference, but maybe we should have, uh, warnings on the ads and disclosures, saying that this is a commercial message."

• 33:30Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  And so, what happens when you do this in America? The private sector said, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I want to be able to sell as much sugary garbage to kids as I want." You can't restrict, uh...

• 33:44Josh Clark?

  Free trade for America.

• 33:45Speaker 03

  Free trade in business. And so, we're gonna raise a record at the time, sixteen million dollars to lobby against this.

• 33:54Josh Clark?

  And well, and they were helped out in no small part by getting the right guy into the White House.

• 34:00Speaker 03

  Right. So in nineteen eighty, one of the first things Ronald Reagan did was he appointed a new chairman of the Federal Trade Commission. And this, uh, this was a move that basically said, you know what, there's gonna be no regulation whatsoever. Gotta leave these markets free. You can do whatever you want. Uh, and that is basically how all of these cartoons were born.

• 34:21Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  G.I. Joe, Transformers, Smurfs. Care Bears.

• 34:26Josh Clark?

  Rainbow Brite, Sorbet Shortcake.

• 34:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, you name it. It basically became, marketing and selling things in cartoons became one and the same, finally.

• 34:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and one of the other things that definitely helped G.I. Joe two was the, um, I don't know if it was formal or informal, but there was basically a ban on, um, on warlike cartoons and warlike toys.

• 34:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 34:49Josh Clark?

  That was brought back under the same ease of restrictions by the FTC. So that, I think the percentage of warlike toys that was sold in the early eighties went up like three hundred fifty percent from one year over the other.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:04Josh Clark?

  From like nineteen eighty-three to eighty-four, I think. Whereas before it was like, no, we don't, G.I. Joe's an adventurer, remember? It's like, no, G.I. Joe's gonna cut Cobra's head right off.

• 35:16Speaker 03

  So that's in nineteen eighty. That's one of the first, uh, one of the first big things Reagan did when he got into office. Uh, flash forward to nineteen eighty-eight, in November, one of the last things he did was he vetoed a new measure, because basically they saw what was happening. All of a sudden, kids were being bombarded with war cartoons and, uh, just terrible sugary packaged food all over the place, like, the restrictions were nowhere to be found.

• 35:42Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 35:43Speaker 03

  So, uh, Congress came back and said, you know what, this is out of hand. Here's a measure that will, uh, restrict once again and impose some, uh, some legislation on this programming aimed at children.

• 35:56Speaker 03

  Passed the House by 328 to 78. Passed unanimously in the Senate and Reagan vetoed it.

• 36:02Josh Clark?

  No.

• 36:03Speaker 03

  And said, uh, basically what one of the things they were trying to do, they were trying to limit programming to, uh, advertising to 10.5 minutes an hour on the weekends and 12 minutes an hour on the weekdays and also provide, uh, require broadcasters to provide educational and informational programs as a condition of renewing their licenses. So Reagan vetoed that and said, no way, uh, we're not going to do that. We're going to keep it as is. Uh, people that were in favor of this went crazy, basically. They were saying like, how can you guys say you're the, the party of the children?

• 36:38Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 36:38Speaker 03

  And education and then veto something that is clearly going to help protect our children.

• 36:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah. That is messed up, man. I had no idea about that one.

• 36:48Speaker 03

  Yeah. And not only that, the, uh, what happened was along with this deregulation, um, the toy companies and the cartoons, they actually, they kind of got in bed together and they said, you know what? If you show, uh, if you schedule as a broadcaster, um, our cartoons that sell toys, we'll give you a profit on those toys.

• 37:10Josh Clark?

  Nice.

• 37:11Speaker 03

  If you run these G.I. Joe cartoons, then we'll give you a little cut of what we're selling.

• 37:15Josh Clark?

  Plus also we'll buy ads on those cartoons or on your network too, to sell those, those toys when you show these cartoons, I imagine. You know?

• 37:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:25Josh Clark?

  Cause I remember watching G.I. Joe, uh, uh, Real American Hero, the cartoon, which I have to say, i- i- it was created in, in large part to sell G.I. Joe's true, but it had, it had great story arcs. It had overarching story arcs that went from, uh, episode to episode. Uh, the individual ones were good, like the voice acting was good. The animation was pretty good. Same with Transformers too. Like it was pretty, pretty good cartoon. So at least they were putting time and effort and thought into this, but, uh, yeah, it's pretty despicable marketing to kids in general.

• 38:01Speaker 03

  Actually I read a blog, um, I'm certainly glad you were a satisfied viewer.

• 38:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 38:07Speaker 03

  But I read this blog that basically said that, um, man, I wish I could find it. Maybe I'll post this when we release it, that, that the deregulation killed the creativity and killed, and children's cartoons.

• 38:19Josh Clark?

  Well, yeah.

• 38:20Speaker 03

  And that they said that. Before you know it, there were just like, things were knockoffs of one another. They didn't care about, I guess, I mean, you were a kid, so maybe you didn't realize it.

• 38:29Josh Clark?

  I was too stupid to know what was going on.

• 38:31Speaker 03

  They said that, you know, you can see a clear demarcation line between really good storytelling, and then storytelling that was clearly just geared to sell things.

• 38:39Josh Clark?

  I guess, I don't, I'm trying to compare, like, what cartoons were in the 70s, and like, they were great. They weren't high art, though. Again, I'll go back to that Hair Bear Bunch. Well, I loved the Hair Bears.

• 38:52Speaker 03

  They were drug fueled.

• 38:53Josh Clark?

  But they're, yeah, yeah, that was a big one. But they're, I mean, their plots were pretty simple. It was the same plot that you would see on a Yogi Bear cartoon, or like a Huckleberry Hound cartoon. Um, Scooby Doo was interesting, and it was pretty cool, but it was basically the same storyline every single time. Like, with Scooby Doo, and I'm not trying to argue in favor of corporate America marketing to kids and ruining creativity, but, like, you don't, there weren't any overarching storylines, aside from Scooby being crazy for Scooby Snacks and Scooby Doo. And there definitely was in G.I. Joe, like, when they went around the world and took the DNA of all of these great, these great dictators and conquerors, like Alexander the Great and Napoleon,

• 39:37Josh Clark?

  and put them all together and created Serpentor, um, who was actually the new guy who was in charge of Cobra, because Cobra Commander was a bit of a coward.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 39:48Josh Clark?

  Did you not know any of this? How do you not know this stuff?

• 39:50Speaker 03

  I was, I was trying to kiss girls in the roller skating rink at this point, and you thought girls were gross, still.

• 39:56Josh Clark?

  It's true, it's true. But, uh, I, I, it definitely helped shape me, and I, I am nostalgic for it in that sense, and I am appreciative. But Chuck, I propose

• 40:06Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 40:06Josh Clark?

  that sooner than later, we do an episode on marketing to kids, because this whole deregulation story is just fascinating.

• 40:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I had, I didn't really know anything about it, because I was still a dumb kid when this was going on.

• 40:19Josh Clark?

  Well, let's do it, though, okay?

• 40:20Speaker 03

  Agreed.

• 40:21Josh Clark?

  So, that was G.I. Joe, shaped my childhood.

• 40:25Speaker 03

  You don't say.

• 40:26Josh Clark?

  Just a tad. So, uh, but prior to G.I. Joe, the first three and three quarter inch action figure in the U.S. as far as I know was the Star Wars line. And the Star Wars line, again, when Mego passed it up, they quickly realized that we really screwed up. They released like a Buck Rogers line, um, and a Black Hole line. Remember that movie, The Black Hole?

• 40:53Speaker 03

  I do.

• 40:53Josh Clark?

  From Disney. It's really creepy, even still. Um, but so they tried to catch up and they ended up going bankrupt in 1983, basically as a result of losing this Star Wars line.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  Sad.

• 41:05Josh Clark?

  And so Kenner, and so Kenner picked it up, picked up the Star Wars line instead, and they released them. And right out of the gate in 1978, which I believe was the first year that they released these things, this three and three quarter inch Star Wars line of action figures. Um, in 1978, 1979, they made a hundred million dollars each year from selling those.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:30Josh Clark?

  They sold about 40 million units a year. And from 1978 to 1985, which I think was the whole run of the Star Wars lines, the original run with Kenner, Kenner sold 300 million units. So if they're selling 40 million a year and making 100 million each year from that.

• 41:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:49Josh Clark?

  They sold 300 million total. So Kenner made some serious bank off of Star Wars.

• 41:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, off of me and my, my lawn mowing fund.

• 41:58Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 41:59Speaker 03

  Uh, for sure. I had, I feel like I had at least doubles of most of the major characters, many of the minor characters, uh, the Tie Fighter, the X-Wing, the Death Star.

• 42:12Josh Clark?

  Oh, you lucky duck. You had all those?

• 42:14Speaker 03

  The Landspeeder. Um, I also had the, uh, the, the Big Dolls. Um, I don't know if they were 12 inch, but I-

• 42:22Josh Clark?

  What is it with you and Big Dolls?

• 42:23Speaker 03

  Maybe 10. Man, they're huggable.

• 42:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had the Big Luke and the Big... I think the Big Luke and the Big Vader, and maybe like one other, maybe Chewbacca, but not all of them. And basically whatever I could either get for my birthday or Christmas, or save my allowance to buy.

• 42:45Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  I would get, and I was all in. I didn't know that these were collectible, of course. I ripped right into them.

• 42:52Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:53Speaker 03

  To play with them like normal children do.

• 42:55Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 42:56Speaker 03

  I didn't put it like in a box on a shelf to try and keep it in mint condition.

• 43:01Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's weird to do, though, as a kid.

• 43:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe there were kids doing it. I didn't know any. We all played with them.

• 43:09Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 43:10Speaker 03

  But...

• 43:11Josh Clark?

  I mean, that was originally the point. I think it wasn't until like much later that it became evident that you could sell them to people who wished they had them in the package still for a lot of money.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, and should we close later on with the, uh, some of the more valuable ones?

• 43:28Josh Clark?

  Yes, for sure.

• 43:29Speaker 03

  So that's a tease.

• 43:30Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 43:31Speaker 03

  Everybody, should we take a break?

• 43:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we should. Was that it about Star Wars, you think?

• 43:37Speaker 03

  I don't have anything else, really. I mean, there's a gazillion other things we could talk about, I guess, but what more do you need to know besides that they were huge hits?

• 43:46Josh Clark?

  That's it.

• 43:47Speaker 03

  All right, we're gonna take a break, and we're gonna come back and talk a little bit about the, uh, how these things are actually made.

• 44:05Speaker 05

  I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with Dr. Laura Jayhai of Cleveland Clinic about how advanced computing is helping shorten the path from medical discovery to treatment.

• 44:18Speaker 04

  The moment that there is a compound that someone in a lab thinks it would be effective to treat a certain disease, it takes about 10 to 13 years from that moment to when that drug is on a shelf for a patient. A big part of that gap could be computationally solved. Better simulation of compounds, designing drug trials that are more efficient, that would finish faster. That was the motivation to bring computational tools and technology closer to biomedical researchers.

• 44:52Speaker 05

  Learn more about how Cleveland Clinic and IBM are using AI and quantum computing to revolutionize biomedical research at ibm.com/smarttalks.

• 45:05Speaker 03

  This is Jonas Knox from Two Pros and a Cup of Joe. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota Ford ability, and it starts with a great deal on an off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra. Two of Toyota's longest-lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. Built on a reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 45:51Speaker 03

  All right, so just to put a little bow on the action figure thing before we get into how they're made.

• 45:58Speaker 03

  You know, Transformers came along was huge throughout the 90s. Then you saw Marvel and DC really come on the market. Every movie you could think of had action figures. TV shows started having action figures. Older, popular movies started having action figures, like for nostalgia's sake. Like, I literally had a Scarface doll.

• 46:19Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, I've seen that.

• 46:20Speaker 03

  A Scarface Al Pacino that I used to have in the office.

• 46:22Josh Clark?

  Did he come with a mound of cocaine?

• 46:25Speaker 03

  It did.

• 46:25Josh Clark?

  Plastic mound of cocaine.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  It did. Uh, and now, you know, you can find pretty much any kind of action figure you want from politicians to, uh, older movies and TV shows and like things you wouldn't even imagine people would like Welcome Back Cotter action figures.

• 46:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and I didn't realize this, but apparently companies intentionally will release like a very limited run of some where like they're missing their thumb or like it's mislabeled on the package to make these things, um, to make them valuable for the aftermarket, the collector's market.

• 47:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:00Josh Clark?

  Which seems really untoward to me, like gaming the, the collector's market by manufacturers. That's just, that seems, that's just the opposite of what you're supposed to do.

• 47:12Speaker 03

  So that, is that verified? That sounds urban legend-y to me.

• 47:16Josh Clark?

  Well, it was in one of the articles you sent and I took it, the, the person who wrote the article sounded like they knew what they were talking about.

• 47:22Speaker 03

  Really?

• 47:22Josh Clark?

  But was that the same article from the guy who said that?

• 47:24Speaker 03

  Oh, I don't know.

• 47:25Josh Clark?

  That Kenner couldn't sign the contracts because the right people weren't there?

• 47:29Speaker 03

  I don't know, because the, the first thing I think of is if they're doing that, then what's to keep them from artificially manufacturing something that's going to be valuable and just keeping a bunch of them themselves?

• 47:41Josh Clark?

  Well, most companies like money now rather than a little more money later. So that would probably do it.

• 47:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's true.

• 47:50Josh Clark?

  You know?

• 47:50Speaker 03

  All right. So you want to talk about how these suckers are made?

• 47:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you, you, again, you found some good stuff here when you put this together.

• 47:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I thought this was pretty interesting. So it starts with design, right?

• 48:03Josh Clark?

  Right. Which, I mean, it's pretty sensible. You say, uh, give us a Thor character, you sucker. And, um, they're talking to an artist, a sculptor when they say that. So the sculptor gets to work like creating, um, like a, basically a skeleton. It's called armature out of wire and the wire is in basically a position Thor likes to run, holding his hammer. So he'll be kind of like in a crouched running pose. Um, and then they slap some clay around it, maybe bake it a little bit to make it stiff. And then they mold very, very roughly the general body shape and head shape of Thor. Um, and then they kind of start to get to work from there.

• 48:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, rough Thor-ness.

• 48:46Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 48:46Speaker 03

  Is what they look for early on. Um. And this, you know, it depends on the action figure. There are all different kinds that have varying levels of movement. And depending on what you're gonna end up with is really gonna inform the process. But let's say you're Thor and you want to move your arms, move those big pipes a little bit.

• 49:09Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 49:09Speaker 03

  They may choose to sculpt the arms separately, or maybe the legs separately. They almost always do the head separately, because it's got all these, this fine detail and you just wanna work on that by itself.

• 49:21Josh Clark?

  Right, and when you're messing with the head, you're just, oh, your wrist is like going into the chest that you just finished.

• 49:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:28Josh Clark?

  Why do I always do this? Not have to start over?

• 49:30Speaker 03

  Pretty much.

• 49:32Speaker 03

  So, they're working with this torso perhaps, only. Put him aside. Work on the arms, work on the hands, work on the head. And eventually, uh, once you've got this head and face like you want it, you're gonna attach that back on, build a neck and build some hair. And if it's one that's completely plastic, you're gonna do the clothes and everything, and the suit. Sometimes you have real cloth, though, like in a cape. So you're gonna, you're not gonna carve that out, obviously.

• 50:03Josh Clark?

  No, no, they'll add that, they'll add that later. And sometimes, like, an action figure will come with, like, a breastplate, or boots, or Thor's hammer, maybe they'll, they gave Thor Kung-Fu grip. So you'll have to mold that also separately. But then sometimes, and you'll know this already probably as the designer, they're gonna be like, "No, we don't want any of that weird cloth. That's like a big G.I. Joe and that just weirds people out." "We want it, we want it plastic and molded." So they'll, they'll basically carve the, uh, the clothing out of the original sculpture as well.

• 50:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, and this all takes about two weeks on the, uh, of course, it depends on who you're working with, but

• 50:40Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 50:40Speaker 03

  Two or three weeks to carve this, this dude out to its kind of rawest form.

• 50:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I'm always incredulous of stuff like that. It's like, you know, who does it take two weeks? Is that really an average? Like, how many action figure sculptors did you poll to find out that it was two weeks?

• 50:57Speaker 03

  They probably just talked to someone at the company and they say, "How long's it take?" And they said, "About two weeks."

• 51:01Josh Clark?

  Yeah. That's good enough for me then.

• 51:03Speaker 03

  Alright.

• 51:04Josh Clark?

  As long as they spoke to somebody.

• 51:06Speaker 03

  Alright, so now you've got your little dude and you're gonna use a plastic resin when it comes to the actual materials of the thing itself. There's something called ABS, acrylon.

• 51:21Speaker 03

  Wow, I thought I had it.

• 51:22Josh Clark?

  You want me to try it?

• 51:23Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 51:24Josh Clark?

  I think it's acrylonitrile butadiene styrene.

• 51:29Speaker 03

  ABS, nice work.

• 51:30Josh Clark?

  Three types of plastic in one.

• 51:32Speaker 03

  That's right, so that's the harder plastic for the main body. They may use something like polypropylene or polyethylene for the various parts or pieces. You've got your fabrics, if you have capes and things like that.

• 51:46Josh Clark?

  So weird.

• 51:49Speaker 03

  Well, no, I mean even the little small figures had, like the Jawas had capes.

• 51:56Josh Clark?

  Yeah, no, I know.

• 51:57Speaker 03

  Not capes, but cloaks.

• 51:58Josh Clark?

  I know, I remember. That weirded me out too, and I think finally I understand what it is that I don't like about the large G.I. Joes. They had fabric clothing. And it was ill-fitting clothing too, like, did you see, I don't know if you had it or not, but the original G.I. Joe, like, some of them came with a raincoat? But it didn't look like a raincoat, it looked like he was wearing a sleeping bag that had a drawstring around his face.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  You sure it wasn't a sleeping bag?

• 52:23Josh Clark?

  I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be a raincoat. But I think that's what it was, it was just creepy, you know?

• 52:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:30Josh Clark?

  That was all. I guess it's not actually the size, it's the creepy factor brought on by this clothing that didn't fit quite right, like, you know, it's the kind of clothing that you would make for a son who was a serial killer, but you didn't want to turn him in, so you just keep him locked in the basement, and you gotta make his own clothing, you have to make clothing for him, this is the kind of clothing you would make him. That's, I think, what creeps me out about it.

• 52:58Speaker 03

  Well, you're working through some stuff, so I'll check in with you at the end, and we'll see exactly what it is you hate about the tall dolls.

• 53:04Josh Clark?

  Alright, cool.

• 53:06Speaker 03

  So, the manufacturing process, you gotta create the mold next, you want a master mold, or maybe it might be more than one mold, and this requires the most time, they say in this article about two-thirds of the whole time is spent making these molds.

• 53:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, which makes sense.

• 53:22Speaker 03

  And it takes a few months.

• 53:25Speaker 03

  Again, is that arbitrary? Who knows?

• 53:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah, this guy's like, probably just takes a couple.

• 53:32Josh Clark?

  And then, once you have the molds, and you also have to make a decision when you're making the molds. Do you want to make the torso and the legs together? Is he going to move his arms? If so, you probably want to do two different molds for the arms. So, there's a pretty decent amount of decision-making work that goes into just coming up with what molds you're going to make. And then, once you make the molds, then, yes, you have to make the molds, you have to operate them. Then, you have to decide what kind of, what kind of, what's the word I'm looking for? Where you actually make the plastic figure. Molding, which I should have been able to come up with, because we were talking about molds at the time.

• 54:11Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 54:11Josh Clark?

  So, there's different kinds. I looked up one kind called rotational molding.

• 54:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:17Josh Clark?

  I guess that's what Star Wars was going to try at first, but they lost too much detail on the figure. So, they went to, I think, an injection molding process. But with rotational molding, you've got a mold, and it's on this computerized arm. And this arm just kind of spins around inside an oven. And inside the arm is like powdered plastic resin. And I guess it just melts it by kind of slowly spinning it around. I don't understand what the problem is, but I guess injection molding is far superior.

• 54:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess so. I mean, the deal with injection molding, they pump it into two pieces. And then, they apply pressure to those two pieces to mold them together while it cools and hardens.

• 55:02Speaker 03

  But I think what you get there is, which is why probably they wanted to use the rotational molding, is if you have those little Star Wars guys, or imagine G.I. Joe if they were injection molds.

• 55:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 55:14Speaker 03

  If you look at their body from the side, it's in two pieces. And sometimes, you can see a little seam.

• 55:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 55:21Speaker 03

  On their head, or on their arm, or something. Or probably on their arm, because those were separate. But, um, yeah, sometimes you could see the seam where the two halves were pressed together. They wanted that smooth look for the rotational molding that that provides. But, um, Yeah, I guess the detail is the trade-off.

• 55:39Josh Clark?

  So that's the rotational molding, you don't have seams, but you lose fine detail.

• 55:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:44Josh Clark?

  With injection molding, you can get the detail, but you can see the seams of where the two sides of the mold came together.

• 55:50Speaker 03

  I guess, but man, I mean, how bad could that detail have been? Because when you look at those early Star Wars figures, I mean, the detail is not great.

• 55:57Josh Clark?

  No.

• 55:57Speaker 03

  You know?

• 55:58Josh Clark?

  Like, had I been Mark Hamill, I would have been like, "This is what you think my face looks like?"

• 56:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, they... I mean, they've gotten way better. Like, the stuff they're making today is amazing.

• 56:07Josh Clark?

  But it's almost too good, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, there's some amazing stuff out there, but it's... That was one of the great things about these, especially the 3 and 3/4 inch guys. They just... They were meant to be played with. They were meant to have imagination bestowed on them, and little child's hands.

• 56:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:26Josh Clark?

  Not supposed to sit on your desk at work, or something like that, and just as adornment. Like, they were meant to be played with, and they were subtly downgraded from, you know, the stuff that's out today.

• 56:39Speaker 03

  They were just downgraded to an upgrade.

• 56:42Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 56:43Speaker 03

  Like, John Hodgman is literally screaming right now into his earbuds because we're nostalgic about something that was...

• 56:49Josh Clark?

  Sorry, John.

• 56:50Speaker 03

  Decidedly crappier.

• 56:51Josh Clark?

  Sorry. But it's true, though, for me. Like, I think that they were... They were great.

• 56:57Speaker 03

  Agreed.

• 56:57Josh Clark?

  Have I told you how I feel about the 3 and 3/4 inch G.I. Joe?

• 57:00Speaker 03

  No, we should talk about that some more. All right, so you've got this mold now, pressed together, if it's injection. And then you have to assemble it, if you have the arms separately perhaps, or basically anything else that doesn't come on that original mold. You're gonna have to assemble it together.

• 57:20Speaker 03

  Put all the little finishing details, maybe the clothing that you hate so much. Maybe they're painted with a little more detail, that detail that you hate so much. And all the things that make a better action figure that you hate so much.

• 57:35Josh Clark?

  It's not that I hate it, it's just... I don't know.

• 57:39Speaker 03

  I get it.

• 57:39Josh Clark?

  I'm not quite sure how to put it.

• 57:40Speaker 03

  I'm just teasing.

• 57:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:42Speaker 03

  So.

• 57:43Josh Clark?

  It's, I don't hate it, I just really don't like it.

• 57:46Speaker 03

  Uh, the final, um, the final key to this whole thing is packaging and shipping. So, uh, you think, big deal, what's the big deal with the package? But a lot of thought goes into the packaging, like you were talking about earlier with the, the G.I. Joe actually advertising the other dudes on the package.

• 58:04Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 58:04Speaker 03

  But that classic cardboard backed, uh, clear plastic, um, casing.

• 58:10Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm, the shell.

• 58:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, the shell, that was sort of, became the standard and what everyone came to think of is an action figure package.

• 58:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and, and man, that was another thing that with the wave of G.I. Joes that I played with, that really put a lot of time and effort and thought into the packaging. Um, and that, I mean, that was definitely part of it, that really helped sell the, the action figures in a lot, a lot of ways.

• 58:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:34Josh Clark?

  You know?

• 58:35Speaker 03

  Even though I tore right into it, like I said, I disregarded the package.

• 58:38Josh Clark?

  Well, with the later G.I. Joes, there was a card on the back that had like their code name, their specialty, their backstory, and like you'd clip them out and, and collect those as well, like it was definitely part of it.

• 58:49Speaker 03

  I collected the Star Wars trading cards too.

• 58:51Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:52Speaker 03

  It's funny, I went back and got all my old cards not too long ago, and I didn't collect a ton of cards, I thought, like, ooh, maybe there'll be some, you know, Ken Griffey rookie card in here worth five grand, and so foolishly I, I thought I had something of value, which I did not.

• 59:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 59:08Speaker 03

  Um, but I went through and I had some weird cards that I don't even remember collecting.

• 59:14Josh Clark?

  Like what?

• 59:14Speaker 03

  I had Welcome Back Cotter cards.

• 59:16Josh Clark?

  No.

• 59:16Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:18Josh Clark?

  That's twice that Welcome Back Cotter has made an appearance in this episode. I was not expecting either one.

• 59:23Speaker 03

  I like, I like the show a lot, but I don't remember buying these cards, I had Jaws, the movie cards.

• 59:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 59:29Speaker 03

  I had, uh, lots of Star Wars cards.

• 59:31Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:34Speaker 03

  Some weird like, I mean, I had football cards. I didn't even collect football cards. I didn't think.

• 59:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I went through, I did the same thing you did. I got all the boxes of baseball cards from my dad's house and I was like, I didn't, where did I get all these football cards?

• 59:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:48Josh Clark?

  Who even collects football cards, you know, it's untoward.

• 59:52Speaker 03

  It's weird, but the cool thing about the seventies cards is just the, the look when you could like,

• 59:58Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 59:58Speaker 03

  You know, you had to back the camera off so you could fit the Afro into the card. And all these like great haircuts and hairdos that all these guys had back then.

• 1:00:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:07Speaker 03

  It's pretty great.

• 1:00:07Josh Clark?

  Why is he holding that fist aloft?

• 1:00:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:11Josh Clark?

  And then Chuck after the packaging, it goes to the stores and little kids like us buy it and love it.

• 1:00:17Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:00:18Josh Clark?

  That's the end of the manufacturing process.

• 1:00:21Speaker 03

  Wow, what a journey.

• 1:00:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that was something. We went all the way to China and back.

• 1:00:25Speaker 03

  We did. I don't think we pointed that out. A lot of times, uh, the molding process is in Asia. So that's one reason it takes so long.

• 1:00:34Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:00:36Josh Clark?

  Cause they put them on slow boats.

• 1:00:38Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:00:39Josh Clark?

  So you kind of teased this earlier, um, the, uh, you found a list of the rarest Star Wars figures.

• 1:00:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. And you know, I looked at other lists and they listed different figures. So I don't know if that's something that changes a lot. As far as which ones are the most valuable, cause I literally saw at least two different ones that were described as the Holy Grail. Of Star Wars figures.

• 1:01:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:04Speaker 03

  So you know, there can't be more than one Holy Grail.

• 1:01:07Josh Clark?

  No.

• 1:01:08Speaker 03

  So.

• 1:01:08Josh Clark?

  Everybody knows that.

• 1:01:09Speaker 03

  I do look forward to hearing from those in the know, but instead of saying these are the most valuable, let's just say, we'll talk about some that are pretty rare and fairly valuable.

• 1:01:20Josh Clark?

  I think that was pretty smart.

• 1:01:22Speaker 03

  So no one holds us, uh, our feet to the flame.

• 1:01:25Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:01:26Speaker 03

  Yakface.

• 1:01:28Josh Clark?

  I had not heard of Yakface, had you?

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:01:31Josh Clark?

  So Yakface was one of, um, Boba Fett's either guards or mercenaries, but he worked for Boba Fett. No, not, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Star Wars people, stop, stop, stop your emails. He worked for Jabba the Hutt.

• 1:01:46Josh Clark?

  He's not the same person.

• 1:01:47Speaker 03

  You just caused three car accidents.

• 1:01:51Speaker 03

  Three Toyota Priuses, just...

• 1:01:53Josh Clark?

  Right. Liberty Mutual is gonna be like, "This Josh Clark, we gotta work him into our actuarial tables."

• 1:01:59Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, so he was part of the Power of the Force line. Uh, he was cancelled and you'll find that here's a common thread here is rarity is what makes something valuable. And something can be a garbage figure and they don't make many of them and then it becomes valuable.

• 1:02:17Josh Clark?

  Right. And I think he wasn't necessarily a garbage figure. He was just released at a time when like Star Wars figures sales in general were waning. So they sent him over to Europe. And this thing says that he was never released in the States. I saw that he was, but it was in for a very brief time in a very limited run. And then they sent him to Europe, I think in 1985.

• 1:02:38Speaker 03

  Gotcha.

• 1:02:39Josh Clark?

  Where Return of the Jedi had just come out. So they were crazy for anything that had anything to do with Return of the Jedi. America was already like, "Who cares about Return of the Jedi?" We're into, uh, Temple of Doom.

• 1:02:53Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:02:54Josh Clark?

  Which I read an article about that recently. Supposedly Temple of Doom was so dark because both George Lucas and Steven Spielberg were going through breakups.

• 1:03:04Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:03:05Josh Clark?

  At the time that they were writing and making it.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  So he said, "What can we do here? Why don't he pull out his heart and eat it?"

• 1:03:11Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:03:12Speaker 03

  That's what I feel like.

• 1:03:13Josh Clark?

  Cause that's what Tina did.

• 1:03:16Speaker 03

  Uh, all right. Wequay? So this is another Jabba the Hutt's guards? Are you sure you didn't get those confused?

• 1:03:22Josh Clark?

  I specifically went and looked up Yekface.

• 1:03:24Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:03:25Josh Clark?

  And he, he works for Jabba the Hutt. They even gave Jabba the Hutt's full name and I just remember the Jabba part.

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  Oh, he had more than that?

• 1:03:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah, the hut was, he was a member of the huts, like the race of huts or the tribe of huts. So it was Jabba the Hut, like, you know, Chuck the American.

• 1:03:46Speaker 03

  Gotcha. Well, I think I'm on record as being, like, I'm a big Star Wars fan. Loved them, saw them many, many times, collected the things, but then it ended. I'm not, um, of the other half that really went down the rabbit hole.

• 1:04:03Josh Clark?

  Like, oh, who are still like into it as much as before?

• 1:04:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, and even back then, like new things like Jabba the Hutt's full name.

• 1:04:11Josh Clark?

  Oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:13Speaker 03

  Like, I didn't know, I never knew that stuff. I never read the books or anything like that.

• 1:04:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:16Speaker 03

  Um, ooh, I did have some of those comics, though. I remember that now.

• 1:04:20Josh Clark?

  I never had the comics. I was aware of the books, and there was a lot of books, wasn't there?

• 1:04:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, they still write them, too, I think, don't they?

• 1:04:26Josh Clark?

  Sure. Hey, if it's a good thing.

• 1:04:29Speaker 03

  Sure. Right? Is that good?

• 1:04:32Josh Clark?

  I think so. I think we assuage the people who are into the books.

• 1:04:37Speaker 03

  Alright, so Weekway is another guard. Apparently is not super rare, but there is a limited edition version that is worth more. So the carded, mint-conditioned Power of the Forest line in the 90s um, is worth a little bit more money. It says $35? That's what it's worth?

• 1:04:59Josh Clark?

  No, no, no, that's what the normal one's worth.

• 1:05:01Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 1:05:02Josh Clark?

  The one that has a special freeze frame slide, which I don't know what that is.

• 1:05:07Speaker 03

  Ah, gotcha.

• 1:05:08Josh Clark?

  That one's worth 10 times that amount, according to this guy.

• 1:05:12Speaker 03

  Alright. I remember the vinyl caped Jawa was always worth a lot of money.

• 1:05:17Josh Clark?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:17Speaker 03

  Because they came out with the cloth cape.

• 1:05:19Josh Clark?

  I know, it was creepy.

• 1:05:21Speaker 03

  Uh, so I'm gonna throw that in there just off the top of my head.

• 1:05:24Josh Clark?

  There was also, I think, a vinyl caped and a cloth caped Imperial Guard. Remember the Emperor's red cloaked Guards? And I think Return of the Jedi, maybe Empire Strikes Back?

• 1:05:37Speaker 03

  I don't know, I'm afraid to say anything out loud now.

• 1:05:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I am too. Let's just press stop.

• 1:05:42Speaker 03

  Uh, let's skip that next one and go straight to Boba Fett. How does that sound?

• 1:05:48Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 1:05:48Speaker 03

  Boba Fett, very famously, um, in 1979, there was a Boba Fett that actually shot a missile. Which, as every parent knows, is a chockable, is the parent's worst nightmare.

• 1:06:03Josh Clark?

  Is that, is that the term? A chockable?

• 1:06:05Speaker 03

  A chockable, something you can choke on.

• 1:06:06Josh Clark?

  Is that a real, like, parent's term?

• 1:06:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:09Josh Clark?

  That's awesome, I did not know.

• 1:06:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, supposedly anything smaller than a, uh, the size of a toilet paper roll, uh, tube.

• 1:06:19Josh Clark?

  What?

• 1:06:20Speaker 03

  Is a chockable.

• 1:06:21Josh Clark?

  Smaller than that?

• 1:06:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, so like if you can fit something through a toilet paper tube, then your kid can choke on it.

• 1:06:27Josh Clark?

  Gotcha.

• 1:06:28Speaker 03

  That's what they say.

• 1:06:30Josh Clark?

  Who says that?

• 1:06:31Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:06:32Josh Clark?

  The Today Show?

• 1:06:32Speaker 03

  Dumb parenting blogs.

• 1:06:35Josh Clark?

  No, it makes sense, though.

• 1:06:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:36Josh Clark?

  Can't fit a football through that. Can't choke on a football.

• 1:06:40Speaker 03

  That's correct.

• 1:06:41Josh Clark?

  The system works.

• 1:06:42Speaker 03

  He could choke on a tiny football, though.

• 1:06:44Josh Clark?

  I guess so.

• 1:06:45Speaker 03

  All right, so the chocable Boba Fett, obviously, they said this is a choking hazard. So they scrapped the plans and redesigned it. And so they did eventually release the figure, but it had that, and I had this one, not the one that shot the rocket, because they never released that one, right?

• 1:07:07Josh Clark?

  I specifically remember being in the same room with one that shot a rocket, or...

• 1:07:14Speaker 03

  You sure it wasn't hacked?

• 1:07:15Josh Clark?

  Here's the other possible explanation. I saw it on an ad in a confusing reality with television again.

• 1:07:24Speaker 03

  Because it says here they never released them in stores.

• 1:07:27Josh Clark?

  I saw that, too. But I'm like, I swear I saw one of these things. Or maybe we were just playing with it and we're like, this thing sucks. If it actually shot the missile, it'd be so much better. And I imagined what that would be like and then accidentally formed a memory. Who knows? I'm 40 years old now. I can't remember what was going on when I was seven or eight.

• 1:07:46Speaker 03

  As far as how valuable these things are, if you can get your hands on one, I mean, I've seen things all over the place. One was sold for $18,000 last year.

• 1:07:56Josh Clark?

  Wow.

• 1:07:56Speaker 03

  But then I also saw one where supposedly a $100,000 offer at a Sotheby's auction was turned down.

• 1:08:03Josh Clark?

  What?

• 1:08:04Speaker 03

  So I have no idea the value of these dudes, but it's a lot of dough.

• 1:08:09Josh Clark?

  Is that the Holy Grail one?

• 1:08:11Speaker 03

  Well, that's one of the Holy Grails.

• 1:08:13Josh Clark?

  Do you remember what another Holy Grail you saw was?

• 1:08:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, the other one is supposedly the most valuable, is the double telescoping lightsaber

• 1:08:23Speaker 03

  for Obi-Wan, Darth Vader, and Luke. And I think Luke's is the most expensive. If you remember the little, did you have any of these?

• 1:08:33Josh Clark?

  I had a couple.

• 1:08:34Speaker 03

  So the lightsaber guys had a thing on the bottom of their arm, a little groove cut out, with a little, you know, plastic knob that you would shove up toward the wrist, and a lightsaber would come out of the hand.

• 1:08:51Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:52Speaker 03

  As if it were turning on.

• 1:08:53Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:08:55Speaker 03

  The double telescoping, because that's a telescoping feature. A double telescoping

• 1:09:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:00Speaker 03

  means that you could extend it even further out from the original telescope.

• 1:09:05Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:09:05Speaker 03

  And those supposedly are super rare and worth a lot of dough.

• 1:09:10Josh Clark?

  So that one I saw actually online. Um, oh, man, I can't remember the site, but it was, it's a, it's a great Star Wars action figure site. Um, and they had a picture of it. Have you seen it?

• 1:09:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I thought I had one, but I can't find it. So I don't think I do.

• 1:09:30Josh Clark?

  Like the, the regular lightsaber that they had was just fine. But then the double telescoping part was just like this extra thinner,

• 1:09:39Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:09:40Josh Clark?

  pointy piece of plastic that hung down at like a weird angle. It didn't keep going straight.

• 1:09:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, they always kind of bent.

• 1:09:47Josh Clark?

  And it looked just, it looked broken.

• 1:09:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:51Josh Clark?

  You know?

• 1:09:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, but even if I did have one, it's well worn. So it's not like, I mean, I think all of these things, it's always like mint condition in the package. It's worth this.

• 1:10:00Josh Clark?

  Don't even talk to me if it's not mint.

• 1:10:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:03Josh Clark?

  That's the, that's the slogan.

• 1:10:05Speaker 03

  So I would love some of this cleared up by experts.

• 1:10:08Josh Clark?

  Um, oh, well, we'll hear from them.

• 1:10:10Speaker 03

  The Boba Fett matter. Yeah, I don't even know why I'm asking. The Boba Fett matter, the, like, which one is truly the Holy Grail?

• 1:10:17Josh Clark?

  Uh, what happened with the Kenner, uh, or not Kenner, the Mego Star Wars deal?

• 1:10:22Speaker 03

  Right. And did, did Lee Harvey Oswald act alone?

• 1:10:25Josh Clark?

  Yes. We need answers, people.

• 1:10:29Josh Clark?

  You got anything else?

• 1:10:30Speaker 03

  I got nothing else. This is a big overview. There's clearly many more stories to be told.

• 1:10:35Josh Clark?

  I got a couple, a couple more. I just want to give shouts out.

• 1:10:37Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:10:38Josh Clark?

  Yojo.com.

• 1:10:40Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:10:40Josh Clark?

  If you're into G.I. Joes and you want to feel nostalgic, uh, go check that site out. It's amazing. Um, and then I created a gallery a few years ago called hilarious knockoffs

• 1:10:52Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:53Josh Clark?

  and bootlegs of beloved toys.

• 1:10:54Speaker 03

  Oh, that was great.

• 1:10:55Josh Clark?

  And it's just like the slideshow of toys from around the world that are, it's pretty obvious what they're supposed to be, but they're not. Like the name's just a little off.

• 1:11:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:05Josh Clark?

  Um, they, uh, they, they tried to come up with a new brand altogether, but it's just some cheap version of something great. So go check that out, too. It's kind of cool.

• 1:11:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:15Josh Clark?

  It was fun to put together.

• 1:11:16Speaker 03

  I bet.

• 1:11:18Josh Clark?

  And that's, that's it, man. That's all I got. Go watch the G.I. Joe PSAs by Eric Fensler again. They still hold up.

• 1:11:24Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah?

• 1:11:25Josh Clark?

  You remember those?

• 1:11:25Speaker 03

  Hmm, no.

• 1:11:27Josh Clark?

  Where it was like, like, just weird dubs of those G.I. Joe PSAs, like, "Now you know, knowing is half the battle."

• 1:11:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:35Josh Clark?

  You haven't seen these?

• 1:11:36Speaker 03

  Hmm, I don't think so.

• 1:11:37Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay. I'll send them to you. You're gonna die laughing.

• 1:11:41Speaker 03

  Good.

• 1:11:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you'll love them.

• 1:11:43Speaker 03

  You've been trying to kill me for years. That's a delightful way to do it.

• 1:11:46Josh Clark?

  But this time, I won't be wearing gloves coming at your neck. Uh, I, that's it for me, man.

• 1:11:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's it for me.

• 1:11:53Josh Clark?

  Okay, well, if you want to know more about, um, action figures, you can type those words into the search bar of your favorite, um, search engine. Since I said "search engine" and didn't do any buzz marketing, it's time for listener mail.

• 1:12:07Speaker 03

  Uh, we're gonna plug Kiva, which we haven't done in a long time.

• 1:12:11Josh Clark?

  That's a good idea.

• 1:12:11Speaker 03

  K-I-V-A, uh, is a micro lending website that we have been, uh, we've had a team now, the Stuff You Should Know team, for, geez, how many years? Six or seven?

• 1:12:24Josh Clark?

  I think it was 2008 or 2009, maybe.

• 1:12:27Speaker 03

  Eight years? Seven or eight years? Wow.

• 1:12:29Josh Clark?

  It's been a while.

• 1:12:29Speaker 03

  All right, so this is from Jordan, and then I'm gonna go over a little bit more about, uh, how our team is looking. Uh, "Hey, guys, once I listened to a podcast where you promoted Kiva, I decided to Google the Kiva donation thing. It eventually found it correctly as K-I-V-A dot com. I immediately loved the site. It's the epitome of how to take the globalized world and use that for good. Uh, so often donations come in the form of awkward late-night infomercials or five-second quips at the grocery line where you begrudgingly make an enemy out of the 17-year-old clerk for saying, 'No, I don't want to give a dollar to needy children.'" Uh, while all types of donations are generally good, Kiva makes you feel, uh, even more personal. And once...

• 1:13:09Speaker 03

  One can certainly give their money to needs that are important to them. You probably get your money back, which is great, but no way did that motivate me to loan. And I suspect to most people who use Kiva would also be happy to have their money go to those in need without getting a return. However, if I do decide to receive my money back, I will certainly use those funds to circulate that Kiva site again.

• 1:13:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:30Speaker 03

  In other words, reloan.

• 1:13:31Josh Clark?

  That's one of the keys.

• 1:13:32Speaker 03

  I think I'm feeling preachy now for writing you an email on the basis that I just loaned what amounts to a small amount of cash, but I just want to thank you guys for sharing that site and allowing people like myself to make their lives better. That's from Jordan Bachelor, who claims to be a US defector.

• 1:13:51Speaker 03

  He moved from the US, I can't remember where he lives now.

• 1:13:53Josh Clark?

  Oh.

• 1:13:54Speaker 03

  He was just being cheeky.

• 1:13:55Josh Clark?

  I gotcha.

• 1:13:56Speaker 03

  So, we started this Kiva team a long time ago, and um, right now, we have over 9,000 members, and we are almost at 4 million bucks, dude.

• 1:14:08Josh Clark?

  That is insane.

• 1:14:10Speaker 03

  3,993,325 dollars loaned. That is 143,155 loans.

• 1:14:18Josh Clark?

  Man.

• 1:14:18Speaker 03

  An average of 16 loans per member. And just to give you an idea of how it works, you donate money, you will most likely get paid back, and then they say you can check out and take your money back, or you can roll that into another loan.

• 1:14:31Josh Clark?

  For sure.

• 1:14:31Speaker 03

  Uh, I started off with a couple of hundred bucks way back when, and that now, just because I keep reinvesting it, has grown to 1,125 dollars.

• 1:14:45Josh Clark?

  Wow.

• 1:14:45Speaker 03

  Forty-seven loans, and my default rate is only 4%.

• 1:14:49Josh Clark?

  Nice, yeah, the default rate is not bad at all.

• 1:14:52Speaker 03

  It's not bad, so you can take a little bit, you can take 25 dollars even, and keep reloaning that, and that, in a few years, five or six years, can be, you know, hundreds and hundreds of dollars reloaned to people.

• 1:15:05Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:15:05Speaker 03

  Um, really makes a big difference. We did our research on Kiva.

• 1:15:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:09Speaker 03

  They're not perfect, but we think they do a really good job.

• 1:15:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:15:12Speaker 03

  And um... You know, we have a Stuff You Should Know team, so we would love to see people sign up for it, push us over that $4 million mark, which is crazy.

• 1:15:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah, we're not exclusive, we're not snobs, and neither is anybody on our team. It's a very, very welcoming group of people who are really active on the board. They're led unofficially, but de facto by Glenn and Sonya,

• 1:15:35Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:15:36Josh Clark?

  who have emerged to be these great team leaders that like just keep everybody going and motivated and moderate and make sure everybody's on the up and up and...

• 1:15:45Speaker 03

  Yep, they send us emails and reminders about how we're doing.

• 1:15:48Josh Clark?

  Hats off to those guys, thank you guys for that.

• 1:15:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, so kiva.org, I think I said .com earlier. And just go to the team section, search Stuff You Should Know, join the team.

• 1:15:59Speaker 03

  Throw $25 somebody's way, you can give to people that are doing things that are close to your heart, or maybe countries you've been to that you want to help support. You can give to women or men, and it's just a really, you can really dial down and give very specifically how you want to give.

• 1:16:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and if you want to know even more about it, you can go listen to our episode on Microlending. And you can, we've written a couple of blog posts on it, and I think there's something on HuffPo even that they published of ours, but it's, I think like why we land on Kiva.

• 1:16:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:31Josh Clark?

  And it really addresses a lot of stuff that people have raised, and we've said, hey, man, it's still totally worth it, so, yeah, go check it out.

• 1:16:39Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:16:40Josh Clark?

  If you want to get in touch with us, you can tweet to us at @SBskpodcast, or you can hang out with me at @JoshUmmClark. You can hang out with Chuck on Facebook at @CharlesWChuckBryant, or you can visit our official Facebook page at facebook.com/stufyoushouldknow. You can send us an email to [email protected]. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.

• 1:17:18Josh Clark?

  Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest-lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. And they're built on a reputation for quality and reliability, which is why Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places. She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.

• 1:18:03Speaker 05

  Zolir 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolir, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolir. Zolir may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolir should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolir is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolir.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolir. This is an advertisement for Zolir,

• 1:18:47Speaker 05

  paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

• 1:18:49Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.