S2E52: BONUS: The Wisdom of Connection with Dr. Zach Bush

In this bonus episode from our partner series The Telepathy Tapes: Now What?, Betsy and Libby sit down with Dr. Zach Bush for a conversation about one of the ideas at the heart of their experiences as parents: what if our children are perceiving the world in ways we have forgotten how to perceive ourselves? The conversation begins with nature. Betsy reflects on how her son Joe is drawn to the earth, water, and the natural world, while she often finds herself caught up in the worries of everyday life. From there, Zach explores his belief that life is fundamentally built through relationship and that many of us have become disconnected from that sense of interconnection. They talk about autism, sensory experience, food, the microbiome, and why Zach believes some nonspeaking autistic people may be deeply attuned to environmental signals that others have learned to filter out. They also discuss parenting, the exhaustion of trying to control outcomes, and what can happen when caregivers begin to follow their child's lead rather than constantly trying to make their child fit into the world around them. For parents who have spent years asking What do I do?, Zach offers a different question: What happens if we become quiet enough to notice what our children are already showing us? See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Ky Dickens?

  Hi, everyone. I'm Kai Dickens and welcome to the Talk Tracks, brought to you weekly by TTT Media. In this series, we explore the threads that weave together our understanding of reality, science, spirituality, consciousness, and even unexplained phenomena. Because every era has ideas once dismissed as impossible until someone was willing to investigate them seriously. And on this show, we do just that. Hi, everyone. This episode is a bonus episode from our companion series entitled Now What, hosted by the mothers of non-speakers, Betsy Hicks-Russ and Libby Ingram. Today's episode will feature an interview they did with Zach Bush. The companion series is a supportive, practical conversation space for families, parents, teachers, and anyone else interested in navigating how to help non-speakers

• 0:48Ky Dickens?

  after listening to the Telepathy Tapes. Episodes are released every other week on the Telepathy Tapes YouTube channel and the Telepathy Tapes Now What podcast feed. Their show is so insightful, so grounding, and I highly encourage you to check it out. And to give you a little taste today, here's their episode with Zach. Do you ever feel like you're eating well, exercising, trying to get enough sleep, but you're still not sure it's actually working? What if you could better understand how your body is aging and what you could do differently? That's why I'm excited about the True Age test from True Diagnostic. It uses epigenetics, which looks at tiny chemical tags on your DNA that can change with things like sleep, stress, diet, exercise, and your environment. True Age reads through those tags to estimate how your body is aging. What I find most interesting is that you get a clearer picture of where you are and where you may be able to improve. The test shows your biological age

• 1:31Ky Dickens?

  and how different areas of your body, like your heart, brain, and liver, may be aging. You also get personalized recommendations around nutrition, exercise, sleep, supplements, and lifestyle. So if you're already doing a lot of the right things, but want to know what you could be doing better and exactly where to focus, True Age gives you a much clearer place to start. The process is simple. It's an at-home finger prick. You send it back in the prepared kit, and you get your personalized report online in about three to four weeks. So if you're serious about longevity or even just curious about whether your body is aging faster or slower than your actual age, this is one of the easiest ways to find out. Right now, go to truediagnostic.com and use code TAPES for 20% off your entire order. That's truediagnostic.com code TAPES for 20% off. Bush.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  My 33-year-old son, Joe, is autistic and non-speaking. Since Joe was little, he's always been drawn to the earth. He would sit in the grass beneath his familiar trees, running the blades through his hands, completely content to just be there. Today, nearly every day takes us to the ocean, a lake, or a river. And Joe sits on the edge of the water with his hands in the soil, picking through the pebbles, rubbing them, and tossing them aside. And while I enjoy the calm, I realize I'm not actually participating in it. My mind wanders in a million places, worrying about the future or the past. But Joe inspires me to be more in tune and connected with the world around me.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  And that's what I want to talk to our guest about today. This kind of lost connection. It feels like so many of us feel misaligned with the present moment and our ability to tap into the ecosystem all around us. There are few people who understand this more deeply than our guest today, Dr. Zach Bush. Zach is a triple-board certified physician and a leading educator who's modeling how to explore the profound relationship between human health and our planet. I am honored to have this conversation with one of my heroes. So please say hello to my beautiful co-host, Libby. And Zach, welcome to our show.

• 3:35Speaker 02

  Libby and Betsy, it's such an honor to be with you and this audience. We're here together in an incredible human moment. I'm so honored to be part of that and just look forward to seeing what is co-created here.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Zach, I want to start by asking you about relationships. Now, you've said before that relationships are the architecture of life. And we really can't do life in isolation. Can you expand on this and talk about what role biology plays in our need for relationship? And discuss how this is something we have completely forgotten as a species?

• 4:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, the concept is actually memorialized in a single word that is called biosis. Biosis is what precedes biology, which would be the study of biosis. And so biology, the study of life systems, is based on the understandings of biosis. If you look up in a dictionary the word biosis, you're going to find it relates to the interconnected relationships that make life possible. And so it's not life made better by relationship. It's not more life because there's more. It's life only occurs through relationships.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  And that's really the fundamentals of where we have to get back to as a human species. Because up until now, in this last epoch that we've lived through, there was a belief that everything existed because it managed to be in opposition with enough force to stay safe or to stay protected against everything else. And so our current human mindset is one of opposition. Now, this drives all the way to the other definition that we would focus on here as biosis one, nature is the other. And if you look up the Oxford English Dictionary, your definition of nature is everything in the firmament of the earth,

• 5:34Speaker 02

  the minerals, the plants, the animals, as opposed to humans or anything humans have made. And so we did not only write ourselves out of nature in its definition, we actually wrote ourselves in opposition to nature and its definition. And so when you come to understand both of those, the reality of biosis, life only happens through the interconnected relationships that make it possible. And nature is everything except humans or anything humans have made.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Interesting. So can you explain how this informs your theory about the experience of an individual with autism?

• 6:08Speaker 02

  An autistic child is sensing the cognitive dissonance that exists between reality, which is biosis, and an artificial reality of inhuman humanity and everything that's created in abstraction. Abstraction is a description of any finite system that's lost relationship to its context. Abstraction is literally an artificial reality. An autistic child is simply one that cannot tolerate the dissonance between biosis and a nature that believes itself to be in opposition to humanity or humanity that believes itself to be in opposition to nature.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  And so this is, I think, where we find exactly your realization of this is my greatest teacher. This child, who's now 33 years old, is your greatest teacher because it is the living being that sits next to you in a state of unconditional love that cannot filter out the reality of a biotic reaction system. This biosis that's driving life is what he is feeling. They feel the pain. They feel the loneliness. They feel the heartbreak. It's not their own. They literally feel that of everyone else.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  God, that's so well said. So true. So let's talk about this kind of symbiotic relationship, because I'm interested in this, because I remember learning about microbiota early on, where, you know, you're killing out, you take an antibiotic, for example, and you're killing out all of the bacteria, but you're clearing out the bad with the good. And that symbiotically, they should be working together. Like, we have good pathogens. We have bad pathogens. We have viruses. We have everything. And they work symbiotically. Not to say antibiotics are bad. They've been revolutionary for keeping humans alive, and they're an incredible medical intervention.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  But just using that as a symbol of how we try to control the world around us or eliminate any risk of harm, we can unintentionally rid ourselves of things that are good for us and therefore actually creating more harm.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Yeah, I think that that's, you know, this function of the word antibiotic. The book that I just published is called Biological Elegance, and it has a subtitle of Unwitting the Devil. And it is a follow-up to Napoleon Hill's book 88 years ago that was called Outwitting the Devil. And what he discovered in that book, which was devised as a conversation with the devil, was that the devil that would be described or imagined by humans was actually the human mind in abstraction. And so that was, you know, 1940s. And he realized, oh, my God, we are the devil.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  As soon as we disconnect from the infinite beauty of the reality that we live within, we become hell. The book goes through 33 chapters exploring this antibiotic experience that we have just lived through in our last epoch. And this was not just antibiotics from our doctors. The majority of it was antibiotic chemicals and herbicides and pesticides that we grew our food in, in justifying its use to kill the microbiome of the soil and of the air, thinking that that was against the plants that we would eat. So we sterilized farm fields in the same way that we sterilized ICUs, only to find out that life diminished in both places. And for that, we...

• 9:52Speaker 02

  Learn more fear of nature. We felt more attacked from bacteria that were bad for us in the ICUs, or weeds that were bad for our farms in there. And so we started to build fences, and we started to build, you know, chemical fences, and we started to build all of these structures of blocking the relationships that make life possible. So what you're feeling when you use the word antibiotic, it's so perfect, because the word contains the truth. It is anti-biosis. It is antibiotic. And so that antibiotic is against the relationships that make life possible.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  I think this is a good time to transition into food a little bit. I'm very grateful that I learned very early on, when he was only about three years old, about starting to eliminate certain foods. And so he's grown up with a very clean diet. I take that back. He was, he was on autism diets, you know, the old gluten, casein free, and that was really, you can give him Panda Puffs, whatever, just keep him gluten dairy free, that's all that matters. And then, of course, the toxicity started to build, and it became, it became bigger and bigger. And when I think about, like, what they're showing us, because Joe is very fine tuned to his diet, so he knows the second something affects him. For years,

• 11:10Speaker 01

  every time I'd give him anything with avocado oil, he would massively melt down, and I was like, part of the whole thing. Well, avocado oil's great, use avocado oil. Now we're finding, there's actually no avocados in this avocado oil. It's just one more processed oil. And he was telling me this years ago. So I'm just really curious about how you feel that they are so in tuned. I mean, I'm assuming they're feeling it viscerally, but is it more of a disconnect from the food, not having a natural basis to it, or is it generally, like, changing their biology, making them feel miserable?

• 11:53Speaker 02

  Super important question. I think that one of the gifts of the telepathy tapes is it revealed, you know, this extraordinary intelligence and non-local communication capacity of autistic children. But with my interview during that second season of the program, and now, I'm hopeful that we can advance this to realizing that all humans are telepathic. We've just been trained out of it. And so the difference between your son and you is not that he has some ability to feel viscerally that you don't, it's that you've installed the trained filters between that capacity and, and the sensations that your body is

• 12:36Speaker 02

  every day having. And so you and your son have the same capacity to sense before the food is put in your mouth, as to whether it's coherent with your field or not. The child will know that far before it's put on the plate. They will feel it when it enters the home, they'll feel it when it's in his mother's hands, they'll feel it in the kitchen, they'll feel it sitting in the refrigerator. They can feel the dissonance, and so can you. You feel it when you are buying products off the shelf that you know are not good for you. And yet, you have enough filters to go ahead and still be able to let the hand put it in the basket. And so it takes a lot of layers of filtration, and we create

• 13:18Speaker 02

  them through practices that were trained into behavioral justification, right? Well, this is this, therefore this, and therefore it's okay, you know, then, so we justify, we also have been trained into these hierarchy. Well, it's not as bad as that thing over there, so it must be okay, you know.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  I call it, I call it grading yourself on the curve, like.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  Grading yourself on the curve.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  I do that every day.

• 13:43Speaker 02

  This is the less bad thing. And what happens when we build a world out of, you know, anti-gluten, and anti-casein, and anti-whatever, is we never create the, the reality we want to live in. And so you actually, bizarrely, being anti to something, you actually become the polarity to that thing and stabilize it. And nature requires polarity to have anything persist for more than about a millionth of a second. And so the fact that there are Fruit Loops with 72 chemicals that are disruptive neurochemistry and, you know, carcinogenic on every grocery store shelf in the world, is evidence of the number of filters we're

• 14:23Speaker 02

  able to put between our instinctual knowingness, and a reality of nourishment that the world would have for us, that nature would have for us. This is where the autistic mind is pushing us, is to remember that we can feel all of the relationships that would make these problems obsolete. We can feel it through our feet when we walk on soil. We can feel it in the air when we breathe in a forest. We can feel it in a marketplace that is full of produce grown by farmers that know their land. We can feel it in the opposite way

• 15:03Speaker 02

  when we walk into a department store that's full of off-gassing plastics and carcinogenic, you know, materials that were made from sterilized farm fields that were turned into plastic polymers that then turned into clothing that we now put on our bodies that absorb into our bloodstream and disrupt our endocrine chemistry. You can feel all of those relationships when you just go in and smell a department store, like, your body immediately is in revulsion. And yet, they've been trained to use the right amounts of lights and indirect lighting and colors on their signage and everything else to draw your brain in, in a sense of addiction. They've figured out the addictive brain's behavior to induce you into a place

• 15:45Speaker 02

  that is inherently toxic from stem to stern for you. And so when we just developed food chemistry as a field of science in the 1950s, that's what we were doing. We were figuring out how to drug the brain into behaviors that would supersede its instinct for nourishment. And so we separated humans from nourishment through food science. And the food science created things like natural flavorings, which are all neurotransmitter, you know, disruptors. We created things like herbicides and pesticides to reduce the disease that our crops were failing under, not realizing that our crops were failing because they'd been long disconnected

• 16:28Speaker 02

  from their relationships that make life possible within a farm field. And so this has been our journey of sterilization, to the point where an addicted brain is the result. What happens in nature is that when isolation begins to occur, abandonment behavior kicks in. So in psychology, or we call this abandonment disorder. Abandonment disorder is the root cause of all addiction. And so a child being pushed into more and more isolated experiences are going to become more and more addicted to the natural flavorings in the food, or to the casein in the cheese, or to, you know, the mac and cheese, becomes such a drug to

• 17:10Speaker 02

  every kid, because in their growing isolation, as they're trained from being a completely interconnected, multi-dimensional being in the womb of its mother, into an isolated consumer as a four-year-old child that's driving the consumer behavior of the entire household, wrapped in plastic diapers, breathing, you know, unnatural air by the time they're, you know, born, all these things. So that child in increasing isolation is a neurologist that's increasingly prone to addiction because of its growing abandonment disorder. Fast forward into adulthood, and we're all severe addicts that don't even see the problem, because we've been trained into social norms that normalize addiction as good behavior.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  This is the trap that we're in, and this is where autism, again, is our release valve of this cognitive dissonance. It's a, let me put it this way, an autistic child cannot exist in the abstract reality. It is forever relegated to the natural systems of relationship. It cannot break it. It doesn't have the violent tools that would be necessary to break its relationships to nature. So we have to break those relationships for the child. And we do that through social programming, schooling, food systems, all of this. And so we, as a society, are isolating our autistic children.

• 18:43Ky Dickens?

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• 19:27Ky Dickens?

  acai, strawberry, and coffee. I love having something to look forward to in the middle of a busy day that also helps me take care of myself. So embrace your own salty side. Go to kachava.com and use code TAPES for 15% off your first order. That's K-A-C-H-A-V-A dot com, code TAPES. You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself reaching for over and over again? Those are the pieces that earn a permanent place in your wardrobe. And that's exactly what Quince does so well. Quince makes elevated, everyday essentials using premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and premium stretch denim. The designs are timeless, thoughtfully crafted, and made to be worn again and again. Their 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters start at just $50, giving you the softness and quality

• 20:10Ky Dickens?

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• 20:58Speaker 02

  What we've found in my clinic over the years is there was no solution for autism until the whole family was back out in nature. And if you get the whole night buddy out there in nature, immediately the relational context of the family's experience is received. And when the mother comes out of her isolation, to find out that, oh my God, there's a bigger mother. It's called Earth. And wouldn't she always care for my child? Isn't this child actually directly from Earth, not from me? Isn't this child made of the minerals and elements of the Earth, not me? Isn't this child laced together with the elements of the water and the carbon and everything else that came from Earth, not me?

• 21:43Speaker 02

  Isn't there a greater mother here? And I would watch these mothers come back in the clinic in tears, realizing the whole planet cares for my child. It's no longer me alone. My child is cared for in ways that I could never do on my own. All I have to do is get my child out to nature every day, and she is going to take care of this child in ways that I cannot, because she is the reality that this child can feel. And I am going to stop trying to program my child out of that nature, and I'm going to stop isolating my child out of my social embarrassment for their behavior and outside, or my concern for their allergies, or my concern for their food systems. I'm going to just get outside with this child, and that child is going to take me back into

• 22:28Speaker 02

  my nature, and I'm going to find out there's also a mother that cares for me. And that's ultimately the beauty that we found in clinic.

• 22:36Speaker 03

  Zach, John Paul was such a, I mean, he talked about trees and he would spell. We communicate like the root systems of trees. He would say, we're all connected, we're all one. These are things that he just talked about naturally. We might be somewhere, he may have to ground himself. So we might be somewhere and he'd have to just lay down on the ground. And I think he was just trying to connect. He was a tiptoe walker too, as well. So 6'8", 300 pounds tiptoe walker, 6'7", usually naked at home and running around. Luckily, we live in a house where we have a lot of privacy.

• 23:16Speaker 03

  So JP was just naked all the time, going through the yard, through the, and people in the neighborhood could hear him because he was so loud. But we have a pond, he would just jump in, and that's where he wanted to be. And I loved watching him, just in nature, just feeling so good. And I find autistics just so incredible with what they feel and just how honest and pure their thoughts are. And I really just miss all those beautiful messages from him, just about, Mom, nothing matters but love. I mean, he just felt it all.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  Zach, recently, it was last month, actually, I was on a hike with some friends in the woods. And we were only about 15 minutes into the hike, and it was a pretty big hike. And Joe stopped cold in his tracks and wanted to go back. And I thought he was tired. I thought, maybe he's just kind of fatigued, maybe he's not feeling well. I'm like, Joe, we just kind of got started. What's going on? Like, we just got this hike, let's, let's keep going. So about 200 yards after that happened, we stumbled upon a hornet's nest, and all of us got stung. And so I asked Joe, tell me about this, and I want to quote him because I don't want

• 24:38Speaker 01

  to paraphrase it. He said, "In nature, animal activity and living things have vibrations that I can pick up on. When I'm in nature, I'm feeling and smelling and hearing it." I'd love your thoughts on that.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he's perceiving the world in the way in which humans were designed to perceive the world, which is exactly how all animals perceive the world, which is through vibration. So the humbling reality that quantum physics and astrophysics have all helped us come to terms with over the last 100 years is that nothing is solid. Everything is an expression of frequency. And so what gives the appearance of a solid table in front of you that you could lay a computer on is the frequency by which the molecular information is vibrating, and that gives it the appearance of solidity. It is anything but solid.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  The density of the vacuum space, the space between things, has only recently been discovered in 2010 in a paper called "The Universal Scaling Laws." It began to be untangled out of the School of Mines in Colorado. The paper is called "The Universal Scaling Law" by Nassim Hamey at Main. One of the most brilliant papers ever written, but it starts to demonstrate what he would discover and define in those next couple of years was that the most dense thing that occurs in nature is actually the vibration of the electromagnetic field in the vacuum space.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  And so, in an amazing way, the science is showing us that frequency is not just an isolated event. And so the frequency of the table in front of you is actually in direct communication, direct relationship to everything in the cosmos. Because of the density of the vacuum space that would be between one thing that looks solid and another thing that looks solid. And so, in the same way that you can knock on the wood and put your ear on the other side of the plank, and you hear the knock, knock, knock, that's passaging through the wood because of the density of the material.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  The auditory signal through air or vacuum space can't catch the vibration, it can't propagate, so there's no sound in space. You've probably heard that. An astronaut would never hear a tool drop on the National Space Station's surface. And so, without the density of air, we lose the audible. But it's, what the autistic is feeling is something beyond the audible. It's feeling what the rest of nature feels, which is the density of vacuum space vibrating between the material world. And so, your son, if we were broad enough in our capacity to imagine a question, could

• 27:40Speaker 02

  answer the question from you of, what is Saturn saying right now? He can also go quiet and feel Saturn in the same way that he would feel the hive of bees or ospreys around the corner there. And so, he's feeling the continuation or the continuity of information that exists between all physical structures. They are communicating through a substance that's more dense than anything that appears solid, by thousands of fold, more dense. And so, the coherence of connectivity between the solid things is far more intense in its capacity for propagation of the information than the material itself.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  And so, this is a very strange universe for us to wrap our minds around, because our minds, different than our bodies, have been programmed to believe what it sees, hears, and senses. The five senses of the human brain are exactly why we fell out of telepathic communication. When we began to trust what we saw and heard more than what we felt, we began the journey into abstraction. And when our concept of spirituality stopped reporting that we are connected to everything and start saying, you are actually disconnected, I sat in so many exam rooms, just surrendered

• 29:08Speaker 02

  and crying with my patients and their mothers, because that's my sensation as a doctor. There's nothing I can do, I cannot help, I have no resource, I can't fix this problem. I can be exhausted with you, I can sit in my surrender, and I can cry with you, watching the suffering of this child, hitting their head against the wall eight hours a day. And then suddenly, the child stops hitting their head because we just became present. And that child suddenly comes and sits in my lap, not because their mind suddenly got more intelligent or because they rewired anything, but because we became coherent, the frequency in which they can communicate.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  And so the nonverbal, you know, status probably needs to be reinvented. Like, we probably need to re-describe that, you know? And so with that invitation, maybe open that up to you both. Libby, what would you rephrase?

• 30:00Speaker 03

  I agree. Yeah, I would call it a regressive sensory motor disorder. I would lose the whole autism diagnosis for our kids because that sets up people thinking, oh, behaviors and they don't understand. They have a whole different idea of our kids, but regressive, well, for our kids, they tended to regress. They have apraxia and they have sensory motor issues. A lot of times you throw in for John Paul epilepsy and anxiety and OCD, which can all happen along with it. But really that is the base of what the problem is. And once we started the spelling and he could explain things better to me, it made so much more sense.

• 30:42Speaker 03

  Like, he did bang his head, but I would ask him, what's up? And he said, I'm just trying to regulate myself. Like, I'm trying to feel my body. And he had a lot of not being able to feel himself. It's almost like he was floating in space. And sometimes he just needed me to grab him and just hug him or just squeeze his arms or press his head or squeeze his head. And he could feel himself. I feel like if you just observe and watch your kids and not be so heartbroken that they're not normal, you get so much further. You're going to be so much happier not trying to control. But we've all done it. I, I had my really dark moments too and really horrible moments

• 31:26Speaker 03

  and you're sleep deprived because they sort of stopped sleeping for a while. It is such a journey. It is a journey of highs and lows and heartbreaks and mess. It's all of it, but I embrace it all. I mean, it was such an experience. I wish it hadn't had to end, you know? It was, it was magic.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Libby, your experience and every parent with an autistic child, every grandparent, every aunt, every uncle is experiencing essentially the most extreme version of being human today. Because what's happening is these children are bridging us into this other world that has to come about. It's a world that is reembodied. And we are coming to the end of this epoch of the antibiotic era, the era of abstraction that occurs when we kill all of the connectivity of relational life within us and around us. We kill it first in our minds and then we kill it in our systems, whether it be medical systems, economic systems.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  So we've created all these vast abstract matrices that we live within. And been wandering around a big city the last couple of days, just watching so many people, these fentanyl zombies, literally, they're just disembodied zombie-like activity. And my heart breaks for the numbness that they are chasing. And we have a whole humanity that's starting to give up, that is starting to just feel like it's too much to be human right now. It's, it's too exhausting to be at the extremity of things. And here comes the autistic generations that are showing us what it feels like, even if we don't want to feel it.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  And so to be connected to an autistic child is to be plugged into a voltage of reality that we have spent generations trying to disconnect from. Because the amount of collective trauma that's now held within the human experience unmetabolized because we were unwilling to feel it for generations. We pushed it under the carpet. Don't cry, don't hurt, ignore the pain, keep going. We've done this for so long now that to plug back in is a horrific experience on a lot of levels. And so what I'm feeling in your framework there, which you're reflecting on,

• 33:55Speaker 02

  triggers something deep inside of me right now of that, of like, my goodness, what a courageous thing to choose to feel right now. Because you will feel something far beyond yourself. You'll feel a species in its extremity of suffering and its extremity of chaos that comes from isolation. And this is the terror in some ways of being an autistic parent is that social systems aren't ready to feel this much. And so they push the child away or they try to manage the child, but do not make available the possibility of feeling what the child is feeling or even being curious to know what the child's feeling.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  Instead, they're trying to, ever harder to program the child with the social norms, the social behaviors, the social beliefs. And so we can all come together to concentrate our energies to power a new initiative, to power a new company, to power our family towards its ends. But when the family or the system that is in its creative mode loses relationship, force is the only piece left. And so this is where our medical system is towards our children today. They're trying to use force to create the appearance of improvement or the appearance of control.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  They're trying to provide parents and providers tools for reducing the stress without, in some ways, ever asking where is the stress coming from? And so this is, I think, the journey of a parent is, man, I think it takes utter breakdown, ultimately, and complete surrender moments where you finally give up your effort to control the outcome, control the environment for your child, create the outcome that everybody would want. But as a practitioner, hearing your story, Libby, it just like breaks my heart because I know how it felt to be a doctor, unable to help so many mothers just with no tools that felt relevant.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  And so my heart goes out to you, your journey with your son. And, and I'm in wonderment that his soul did also know that he was done. He had come and he, he showed what he needed to show through what he would feel. And he, and he finished it. And I'm just grateful for the peace that he has right now.

• 36:21Speaker 03

  Sorry.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  It's okay.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  I want you to feel all that.

• 36:28Speaker 03

  It's just been one of those days, missing out.

• 36:34Speaker 02

  I want you to feel all that. That's the most human experience we can have right now. Because it's only the human that can experience the separation that you're feeling. Because he can't feel it now. He can't feel any separation. He's just feeling all of you. And so it's such a unique human thing to be able to miss somebody, to lose somebody. Because at the level of infinite souls, nothing is ever lost. Everything remains connected. No energy can be created or destroyed. It can only change its form. So your son has changed his form and you remain with us as a human being, limited in perception that we would think we lost him. We think he's gone. It's a mystery. And, and I think that's what we're supposed to feel is the grateful, ultimately.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  That's the unlock.

• 37:21Speaker 03

  He's very present, just not in the way I want him to be.

• 37:28Speaker 03

  But he's always around.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  He is.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Thank you for that, Zach. That was beautiful.

• 37:36Speaker 03

  Thank you very much. You get it.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  He does get it.

• 37:46Speaker 04

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• 38:20Speaker 01

  My last question is a big burning question to myself. And these beautiful telepathic, connected souls have these instincts, or maybe like, in other words, gut instincts, that clearly stem from their connectivity, because we know how just remarkably connected they are. But the majority of non-speakers do not have any form of communication. They have not been taught a way that their body is able to communicate with us as their caregivers. So without that, how are we able to follow their lead while also keeping them safe? Because as caregivers, you know, we have to watch out for them

• 39:03Speaker 01

  running into the street and making sure that they eat right and making sure that they're feeling okay. But how do we protect these vibrational souls and still honor that they know there's a hornet's nest 200 yards ahead?

• 39:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I wish, I wish I knew the answer to that in a concise way. I think it's a moment to moment assessment by the parents and everybody around these children, the community that surrounds each one, to assess, what are we reacting to? A car coming across the street, a child in the way? That, that's a correct assessment of an opportunity to intervene, keep them safe in a three-dimensional world, that their neurologic system isn't processing in the same way and they don't recognize the danger that you do. This is an appropriate way for you to bridge them to this 3D world that we're, we've abstracted and this artificial realities we've created. And so I think that's, that's the right role for us that are stuck in misperceptions mode,

• 40:02Speaker 02

  is to help them survive in a world that was built out of misperception. And something as simple as a road is an abstract system. Nature never made straight lines of asphalt through her. You know, there's, these are inherently systems that are the result of the belief that we should travel through optimized methods rather than wander to see all of the beauty. And so I think that one of the things that I've seen easiest for families, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing for your family, but certainly one of the ways in which you can surrender to your child's leadership most freely is to get your children into wildly natural environments and get them away from the road,

• 40:45Speaker 02

  get them away from the three-dimensional, abstract, artificial realities and immerse them in the 17th dimensional reality of a rainforest or whatever it is. And so maybe that just is a weekend trip and then you follow their lead, which oftentimes is not like very highly adventurous. It depends on the child, of course. Libby, your son would be naked in the pond or something like that. And we should all get, and get in the pond. Like, it's pretty obvious, like, when we should follow. Like, yeah, that makes sense. Like, that's obviously what would cause the human body to have the most ecstatic somatic experience would be to be naked in the pond. And all of the social norms that would keep us doing that

• 41:29Speaker 02

  are all abstract and ridiculous. And that's where we have to work on our deprogramming, is what would keep us from joining the child in the pond. And so I think maybe it just helps to understand that we are dealing with two different worlds. And each of us that sit here calling ourselves neural normal or something, rather than neural divergent, like, those of us that have been so trained in abstraction that we are insane enough to call this normal, have a responsibility back to those that are neurodivergent to help them understand the world that we are living in and that they're bridging us to somewhere else is what we can surrender to. It's like, I wonder what the world they see looks like.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  I wonder where the roads and the cars and I wonder where the dangers are. I think that our children are desperately trying to yank us out of the road. And we're not, because we don't realize we're standing in the road. So these children ultimately, being raised in these environments, I think survive largely out of finding the drugs that make it tolerable. And those drugs are largely things like macaroni and cheese and, you know, these, you know, foods that trigger a neurochemical experience similar to cocaine or whatnot, so they can reach some sort of peak experience in their brain so that they can tolerate the cacophony of energies that are around them that are not metabolizing themselves.

• 42:56Speaker 03

  It's just sometimes I think it's so hard to do your best and to do the harder things. And I think that that also plays into it. And I don't know the solution for that, because there's so much exhaustion in this world.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  I also understand what Zach's saying in the sense of, we're, we're, we're over-programming ourselves. We're, we're over-committing to things. You know, it would be better, in many cases, not saying that an occupational therapy session wouldn't be great, but if you have to sit in traffic and you have to get there and then you have to be in the big city and you have to do all these things, what if you just took a walk in, in the trees? And save that $150 and just be still with your child? And then you would be able to go home and maybe have a better opportunity to make something. Zach, is there any closing words you have for us before we say goodbye?

• 43:56Speaker 02

  I think, I feel that the macaroni and cheese is an example of a stimulus that these children are finding to make this tolerable between the two worlds. And I would not, I've never told a parent to stop macaroni and cheese. It's more an issue of beginning where you have to begin, which is feel more. Communicate that feeling to your child. Be curious to know their feelings and do most of that in nature. If that's what you're doing, then the macaroni and cheese becomes either a great tool within the framework of where the child's at or it becomes obsolete, because in the processing of emotions, everybody starts to want the vegetables on the plate with the olive oil and everything else, you know?

• 44:40Speaker 02

  So I've never actually prescribed a diet to an autistic family, because I can see that the food is actually a necessary bridge every day to survive today. And so what I've found is the most effective way to do nutrition is to lose judgment first. So lose judgment, get in nature, express your feelings, which begins with feeling your feelings. As a parent, you are trying so hard not to feel your feelings because your child is showing you so much feeling that you feel like it's uncontained and uncontrolled and dangerous for the world and all the rest. So this is the beginning of a new era where we will do less of the, let's increase all of the mechanisms

• 45:25Speaker 02

  of control around these children so they fit into an artificial reality. And a lot more, let's get these children back out into nature and let's rewild the human spirit to feel everything. And then we will make sense of what the autistic journey is within this artificial reality we've built and what they're trying to show us, what doors they're opening for us to go into this biological renaissance. The biological renaissance is a moment where we realize that technology is not machines, technology is life. The highest technology in the lands is always going to be life systems, living systems. That is this next generation of humanity. And the autistic moment is helping bridge us to that. The autism is going to show us that there is no machine

• 46:10Speaker 02

  that will ever make a child truly fulfilled or happy or expressive or felt. And so they're going to show us a pathway out there to the wildness of, of the human spirit that's just desperately trying to get out of the box these days.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Everyone, this has been my favorite conversation ever. Thank you so much, Zach. To learn more about Zach, you can go to his website at zachbushmd.com. He has a wonderful new book that you can purchase there. It's Biological Elegance: Outwitting the Devil. And I'm very excited to get my hands on that. You can also find his wonderful social media page, which is one of my favorite pages to follow. It will relax you just sitting and watching the beautiful footage. Thank you again, and it's just a pleasure.

• 46:58Speaker 03

  Thank you so much.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  Thank you all of you listening. This is beautiful.

• 47:02Ky Dickens?

  That's it for this episode of The Talk Tracks. But new episodes will be released every Wednesday, so stay tuned as we work to unravel all the threads, even the veiled ones that knit together our reality. And please remember to stay kind, stay curious, and that being a true skeptic requires an open mind. To dive in deeper, subscribe to our Backstage Pass by visiting our website. With it, you'll unlock access to bonus content like telepathy tests, Ask Me Anything interviews with myself and guests. You'll be able to enjoy the podcast ad-free, connect with other members on our Telepathy Tribe Discord, and hear and see exclusive content from the Telepathy Tapes Vault. Visit our website at thetelepathytapes.com for more info on how to subscribe to our Backstage Pass. Thank you to my amazing collaborators. Producers Katherine Ellis and Selena Kennedy.

• 47:47Ky Dickens?

  Technical directing, audio mix and finishing by Jeremy Cole. Opening and closing music by Elizabeth P. W. And original logo and cover art by Ben Candora Design. I'm Kai Dickens, your executive producer, writer, and host.